My apathy towards Star Wars is complete.
My apathy towards Star Wars is complete.
Fuck this I'm going back to the Expanded Universe of old. Here I come Mara!!
Punish me, red head grey Jedi senpai 🥴
Mark, is that you?
I've got far more enjoyment out of reading some of the old books again than anything on Disney+.
The Emperor’s Hand comics slapped
There’s a YouTube channel animating the Thrawn trilogy. It’s a decent watch.
I’ve been at a point for a few years now where I don’t think I’ll ever even watch the original trilogy ever again. If you told 80’s or 90’s NintendoTheGuy that he’d have zero connection to SW in his 40’s he’d slap you right across the mouth.
If you told him it would be because of Disney he’d kick your kneecap and run away.
This is how I feel. Disney has fucked up Star Wars so bad that they've actually ruined the original triogy for me. Like I just want nothing to do with Star Wars anymore at all. Thanks Disney.
I pirated all of their classic animated movies as thanks
Bro same here first watched the first one back in 91 and was a fan ever since but with Disney no longer
You were a violent child.
Apathy is death
Disney buys SW.
1). Rehash A New Hope with a Mary Sue and revert the OT characters, erasing their character progression.
2). Character assassinate the OT characters. Make boring contrived crap
3). Make a bunch of prequel stories for characters that aren’t fleshed out
4). Make a prequel show for a beloved character and fail to make the show decent.
Profit forever?
Anakin: Jedi who is tempted by the dark side and falls
Luke: Jedi who is tempted by the dark side and Triumphs
Rey: Jedi
Its like they forgot what the main character in Star Wars is supposed to do. She wasn't even degloved/maimed in some way like the other Skywalkers- Its not that a maiming is necessary, its visually extreme character progression.
back then-
Anakin/Luke: "Im extremely powerful now"
Dark side: "lmao not yet actually. Now watch me slice off your hand"
now-
Rey: "Im extremely powerful now"
Dark side: " We better watch out for this untrained jedi who just held a light sabre for the first time 12 hours ago"
lol yep. And really, you think Disney would allow their Star Wars princess to get maimed or fail at anything whatsoever? She even rescues herself from captivity etc lol. Haha
so incredibly frustrating and actually feels like thinly veiled misandry. Darth Rey could have been such a huge hit! Instead because of her sex she can do no wrong and resist extreme evil, unlike her predecessors (this is a bad thing because it writes itself into a corner, which we saw in the latest movies basically)
The end was the worst part when she proclaims she is a Skywalker...like your experience is not even close to what those guys went through. Anyway, this just makes the force incredibly unbalanced- we all know what happens when the force is very unbalanced. The real question is does Disney have the cohones to kill "the good guys".
Dark Rey versus a redeemed Ben Solo could have been amazing and it would have actually been something different than what we've seen before.
And that awesome story idea was wasted so twitter users could instead live through Rey.
Should have been a double turn in the second movie. Rey was written more like a villain than Anakin was.
Agree 100%.
If she had of switched roles with the evil guy that would have been amazing. But Disney couldn't allow that and we got the shit that was the last two movies.
When representation matters story takes the furthest seat in the back.
the real question is does Disney have the cohones to kill “the good guys”.
They couldn’t even kill off an original trilogy character whose actress actually died, after killing off the other two main trilogy characters
They did kill one off - Han.
Probably because IIRC, he demanded it.
They killed off Luke and Han, they dodn’t kill off Leia, after Carrie Fisher died irl
I laughed at the Marry Poppins scene.
So ridiculous.
Luke
Yeah, but not really since he shows up afterwards as a force ghost.
They did kill her off. She's dies in Rise of the Skywalker during Kylo and Rey's lightsaber battle. Kylo feels her die and gets distracted allowing Rey to stab him. You may have forgotten it because it's a forced stupid scene in a movie full of
She's a force ghost with Luke at the end, looking lovingly at Rey on Tatooine just before she steals their name. (I know Leia never used Skywalker but she legitimately could have.)
This is exactly what I was hoping for/expected. I was thinking Rey and Kylo were both going to switch teams by the end of the second movie, then FINALLY realize that balance means both dark and light in the third.
The title "The Last Jedi" I thought was a nod to the idea that the Jedi were inherently flawed for thinking you can have light without dark.
I thought that whole thing with the Prime Jedi logo (basically yin and yang logo) on Luke's island and Rey getting sucked into that abyss were a visual metaphor and foreshadowing for this. They were the dots in that image. Rey was the dark dot within the light and Kylo was the light dot within the dark. Or something like that.
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Wooden arm for wooden acting, perfect fit.
Hero's Journey? What, is that like an 80s band?
-Kathleen Kennedy, probably
The future is female!
she's just an ideologue devoid of any good ideas
This is the same woman who said Star Wars didn't have comics, novels, and video games like Marvel did lol
Imagine if they went the extra mile and pulled a Darth Revan on why she is so powerful after holding a lightsaber for 10 minutes.
Hell, I'd even be OK and on board with that level of character development just being stolen from a computer game released a decade ago.
Throw in a civil war between the sith and jedi factions who can't decide if she is "their guy" or not.
If they turned Rey into Darth Revan, I would have forgiven the entire trilogy in a heartbeat because I love KOTOR and because that's just a great twist in general.
But we can't have good writing in our female empowerment propaganda, now can we?
I don't want Disney anywhere near Revan or anything from The Old Republic era.
Don't you know? It's because women should never be forced to struggle or else that's misogyny
Not to mention, Luke triumphs by throwing his lightsaber away and refusing to kill his father.
Rey triumphs by ruthlessly slaughtering her aged grandfather.
Hey, he told her to do it!
Gramps: "Strike me down so the power of the sith can claim you!"
Rey: "Okay!"
She wasn’t even degloved/maimed in some way like the other Skywalkers
Because she’s not a Skywalker.
She is a Skywalker. You must have missed the last movie /s
She is of Palpatine blood.
So, we've got a Palpatine impersonating a Skywalker.
The Emperor won.
There were some hints in and around the prequels that Palpatine was involved in Anakin’s parentage or creation.
She called herself that, doesn’t make it true though.
Trust me, I’m a Skywalker.
Reddit: "You are a jedi, but we do not grant you the rank of Skywalker."
How can you be the most powerful character in the movie and not be a Skywalker?!!?
Oh well, I'll just annex the Skywalker homestead
My headcannon (this is totally not real) is that Rey is not actually a Palpatine, but the secret love child of Qui-Gon Jinn and Tahl. At least, that makes sense to me.
That would make Rey approximately 60 years old. Quick mafs has Anakin at 9-turning-10 in a Phantom Menace, a ten year gap between it and AotC, dunno what between that and RotS, 17-20 between RotS and ANH, something like 4 years between that and RotJ, and TFA is supposed to be 30 years after that
Unless Tahl got from Jinn jizzfrom the sperm bank
Star Wars subreddit mods: "banned for misogyny and hate speech"
The entire issue with the sequel trilogy is that the entire backstory shouldn't have happened. Luke sees a vision of Ben turning evil and basically starts an attempt to kill him in full view. MANS WATCHED HIS FATHER KILL A BUNCH OF CHILDREN AND STILL THOUGHT SOME GOOD WAS LEFT IN HIM. In reality, he'd see the vision, be like "not on my watch" and fucking raise Ben right.
Rey: Jedi
That's ALL Jedi, sweaty.
Can anyone actually explain why Rey wants to be a Jedi?
The only reason I can think that has ever made any sense to me is "she read the script".
Hey, there is more in Rey, she's a Jedi, who talks with her Sith brother by telepathy for hours because they need cheap exposition, and they need to create a kiss scene no one asked in the end.
Even five years later, I still cannot believe Disney spent billions of dollars on a new Star Wars trilogy only to go into it with no cohesive plan or vision.
Why weren't all three movies planned out before filming began? It was just "fuck it, we'll make it up as we go..."
Why weren't all three movies planned out before filming began? It was just "fuck it, we'll make it up as we go..."
And even if there was a set plan, J.J. Abrhams and company bungled it all up by allowing someone to utterly destroy all the story, plot and character beats set up in The Force Awakens that they had to desperately course correct, making a bigger mess than before.
The Force Awakens = Snope is the new major threat
The Last Jedi = Snope is killed off
The Rise of Skywalker = Palpatine's alive (somehow) and the new REAL major threat (somehow).
the Rings of Power morons (who started under JJ) have been doing continued damage control and it's evident from their comments they don't know the basic answers to concrete facts in their story- they keep alluding to not knowing for certain character's powers or backstory, for characters they themselves created.
I think it's a Bad Robot thing-
I think their 'creative' process is not plan anything out and make it up as you go.
Which makes for terrible stories because they don't build to anything, they just jump to next big idea they have without building up to it or completing the last one.
it certainly explains why all of their products are shit.
fucking mystery boxes.
not even once.
fucking mystery boxes.
I know that a couple of the Lost guys did Once Upon a Time.
One of the worst and probably stupidest literal mystery boxes I'd ever seen was regarding the identity of a character called "Baelfire", who was hiding under an assumed identity. Another character opens up a box in front of him containing "proof" that the other character knows who he is.
You know what was in the box, which was built up for something like episodes to a season?
Go on and guess before you keep reading. Because whatever you think of, despite probably knowing nothing else whatsoever about the story, it's still better than what actually is in the box.
Ready? Okay.
The box contains a piece of paper that says "I know you're Baelfire" on it.
I have no fucking idea how I'm not rich writing for TV because god damn it, stoned otters could have written better than that.
Correct. The mystery box is the only way JJ Abrams and his Bad Robot alums know how to write and they don't care about what the answer is.
Mystery box only works as a mechanic if the writer knows the solution is beforehand.
Disney probably thought all the consumers would blindly eat up new Star Wars content because it'd new and the cool it thing at the moment.
Why weren’t all three movjes planned out before filming began?
They kinda were when JJ Abrams was there, but then raine johnson cones in and was all “i must subvert everyone’s expectations!”
You forgot: abolish the established extended universe so that you can republish everything with worse royalties for the creators.
Abolish the EU while at the same time plagiarizing its ideas but executing them worse.
And then saying you don’t have decades and novels and comics and stories they can base new stories on
Because if they used any of them they have to pay the authors.
yup, kk, jj and rj fucked it right into the ground.
Palpatine returning single handdedly ruins the entire story of everything pre episode 6. So basically all non Disney star wars content
Oh man it was ruined with TFA. Luke is MIA, something he would never have done to his friends, they even show him almost killing his nephew when he didn’t even want to kill his father, a proven Sith Lord. They reverted Han from a republic general to a smuggler again, basically reversing his entire character progression and arc from the OT, and Leia is a washed up politician that barely accomplished anything and didn’t solidify the new republic.
It was definitely completely ruined in TFA.
and their first action after the war is to DISBAND the military and say the Imperial Remnant is no threat?
They did train some planetary militias, but what if they decide to form another Confederacy of Independent Systems?
The last great sci-fi writer that actually understood war was Frank Herbert.
(Is there going to be a deluge of "white savior" stinkpieces that will precede Dune: Part Two? Because that's a really interesting interpretation of the Dune Saga. One that indicates the writer knows nothing about Dune.)
Current-day sci-fi writers need to stop with the fucking dystopias and wars. They refuse to do any research about why wars happen and what the end results tend to be, or how people tend to operate in times of civil unrest.
I'm sure there are good stories out there about those subjects, but it's infuriating how stupid popular stories about this sort of thing are.
Indeed.
Yet another TFA hill I will die on: Leia was done dirty because her husband left after her son fell to the Dark Side, and her brother left after failing to keep him from falling to the Dark Side. And Leia is pissed at exactly neither of them despite the fact that she is now responsible for cleaning up the mess that both of them are not insignificantly responsible for.
Don't forget they made a decent thing by simply fucking off for a bit and in their frenzied fervor to cash in on it, ruined it in the process.
Disney had over 20 years of EU stories to adapt that already were loved by fans and they scrap it all and remake A New Hope instead.
Of course. The old EU they would have had to pay to use as a lot of it was developed outside directly owned rights held by Lucas. Disney was never going to fork over royalty fees to use the EU when they could make their own terrible cheap rehash of it….
I probably speak for most, but I'm just not interested in more Star Wars. Especially more prequels filling in backstory of dead characters.
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The prequels also at the very least had some semblance of heart. The sequel trilogy does not even have scenes that make for great memes.
The only remotely interesting part of the sequel trilogy to me was Finn. I was actually ready to be invested in watching his defection from the first order, to discovering he's Force sensitive and for him to be really cool. Disney couldn't even give me that.
On the basis of this alone, I'd argue Rian Johnson is a deeply closeted racist.
Finn suddenly wasn't allowed to be a love interest for Rey and was then relegated with token Asian mechanic to be comic relief characters who fail their primary mission because they can't park and nearly kill everyone because feelings.
I'm not even sure he's a racist, per se, so much as that he's willing to nix any romance between Rey and Finn to avoid offending racists. Not that that's any better mind. I know Hollywood tends to assume middle America is far more racist and ignorant than it actually is, but I suspect this is more about catering to the Chinese. And yes, Chinese racists would be more upset about a black man with a white woman, especially as a lead.
This is a really interesting video on racism and misogyny in the Star Wars sequel trilogy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vzPAmm6L1g
I don't agree with every point made, but there's enough meat here to establish the idea that all this "progressive" shit hides something pretty sinister.
While the story of the prequels weren't anything special it was the lore, world building, and characters that made them so memorable. Also we can criticize the fact Lucas had to much creative control but he is the creator and he wanted to tell those stories.
That's the difference. Lucas made the prequels because he wanted to tell the story of the fall of Anakin, the Jedi, and the Galactic Republic. Disney made the sequel trilogy because they wanted to make billions.
This. Absolutely all of this.
And I will never forgive Disney for completely removing the possibility of Darth Jar Jar. No, we had to get fucking Palpatine. I know, I know, George already killed the Darth Jar Jar theory when the prequels were finished, but let a girl dream.
Same, I legitimately have 0 care about that franchise anymore. It’s just so wrote, stagnant, and plain boring. I don’t understand how anyone can remain at all vested in it at this point.
This is what happened to me. I used to have Star Wars stuff all over me classroom. After TFA, it just went downhill and after a while I just stopped taking it out.
I don't care how good Andor supposedly is, I'm over it. I have next to zero interest in anything Star Wars from here on out.
It's what they wanted. It's what they got.
They changed the popular franchises so that the core fanbase hates them for people who weren't even interested in the franchises in the first place.
Beats me how all that shit worked out, but I guess the idea was to destroy everything that people love?
Supposedly it’s a wartime drama that happens to take place in the Star Wars universe.
roughly yes. inciting incident is a shakedown turned deadly, i'm 5 eps in and there's nobody that would be much above mook in a regular SW movie. even the guys showing up to get cassian would be a step below troopers. it's more akin to following a young man in vichy france as he moves from a chance homicide to other things, propelled by events
I actually am enjoying Andor because it could easily just not be Star Wars. If they took shit like Storm Troopers out of it which they barely have been there anyway and stuff like that it could easily just be "original sci-fi series".
They actually should have just done that, but it is what it is. It's way less reliant on member berries and darker than any of the other Disney Wars shit. The first episode was straight up Blade Runner vibes.
Yeah it’s the best series they’ve come out with thus far. I like how it’s darker, more realistic, lines up with Rogue One… It feels like maybe they took parts of that discarded game 1313 and used some of it for Andor. It also helps that the main characters are all good actors and some filmography under their belts.
It's written and directed by the same guy who wrote Rogue One, hence the quality.
Rogue One isn't a quality movie. It's merely not as bad as sequel trilogy.
It's not Citizen Kane, but it is a quality movie. It was a fun watch, had good characters, memorable moments, decent writing and didn't sodomize established characters.
Okay, I literally just typed that about Bladerunner, get outta my head man!
the setting is obvious SW - droids, equipment, notional political structure that you only see in the way that a nobody does. you get a feel for day in the life of someone in the empire working a low tier job, and the world building is great - it really feels lived in, as though jump capable ships are equivalent to airliners today
Andor is good, but its been such a mixed bag from disney plus.
I understand what you’re saying, but that’s a matter of perspective.
The movie opens with:
A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away....
That would imply they’re almost all dead.
Edit: I forgot how immature and insufferable Star Wars fans were
“I understand what you’re saying but allow me to go out on a limb with an intentional misinterpretation.”
If the character appears in a later film then there is no peril for that character in the series, like Kenobi, the dual between him and Vader has no gravitas because they both are still alive in new hope!
They’re not real. It does not matter when or how they die, just enjoy it.
Stop asking questions. Just consume product and get excited for next product.
Thats not how storytelling works. If it worked that way, movies would start with the ending. You're arguing that plot twists, exposition, stakes, tension, conflict, antagonists, narrative arcs, and theme just have simply never mattered, and they literally do, and your supporting argument for that is "its not real".
Seriously, what a stupid fucking take.
movies would start with the ending
I mean, some do.
Enjoyment is based on Stakes. No Stakes = no enjoyment.
Sounds like gambling
Even better. Its lives that are on the line, not monetary value.
They're not real, nothing about them matters, don't watch it.
Years ahead you on that
Yes, there's no peril. That doesn't mean you can't tell interesting or compelling stories. It does however constrain you a bit, and thats a problem ANY prequel will have. That's also why Kenobi shouldn't have had a duel with Vader in the series.
I see you're too busy looking to 'one-up' instead of bothering to understand...
Oh no, someone pointed out fantasy characters would already be dead regardless of the narrative! My day is ruined!
Hey it's me Mr. Ultra Pedantic, I'm just here to say that they're in fact fictional characters so they can't be dead because they were never alive to begin with.
Unless we see them die. Then they are explicitly dead characters.
So once again, I'm tired of prequels about dead characters.
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If he was a dog, he'd understand people more.
I think poo-pooing fantasy in a discussion relating to enjoyment of that fantasy disqualifies your argument.
That's the Space Opera equivalent to "Once Upon a Time." It was Lucas' very intentional way of telling audiences this is equal parts scifi and fantasy film.
I mean, I've always viewed it as a sort of myth, a legend from the distant past being communicated to us as the audience.
Especially more prequels filling in backstory of dead characters.
Technically, aren't they all presumably "dead" at this point, since in universe these events canonically took place "a long time ago." I mean, they're pretty much myths, larger than life, but I always viewed it as their legends being passed on to us as the audience.
At this point all I am excited for is Fallen Order 2 and the KOTOR remake. I have been playing more TOR and that still holds up well, especially the story. I love the Bounty Hunter story in that game.
You'd think, at some point, these Hollywood companies would realize the poison they're causing to their own reputations. If a juggernaut as big as Star Wars can be decayed from the inside out by activists scaring away their own audience, it can happen to anything. Even Lord of the Rings is suffering greatly from such a thing, and that's probably the most beloved IP in all of fantasy. It may not happen, immediately, but woke will inevitably lead to broke.
That ESG money must be really good. Although I wonder if at some point even Black rock is going to lose substantial amounts of money from all this.
Blackrock going bankrupt would be amazing for society.
I'm unsure on whether ESG is a main cause of much of the degeneracy in society, or if it's a symptom of an even greater problem, or maybe a bit of both - but it's a cancer on the entire world.
you deserve more upvotes for talking about the bs of ESG. sadly few people know about that
David Zazlav (CEO of Warner Bros. Discovery) seems to be well aware of the damage that’s been done with the crap, and apparently has this crazy idea that making movies people want to watch might make more money than making movies they won’t watch.
But I suspect we’ll have to wait to see what the next crop of WB movies are like before we can make that call.
Disney trying to do so much, the thing is, it’s low level shit. Nothing exciting just recycled trash.
I turned 30 this year and I think I've officially aged out of Star Wars/Marvel. it stinks but I guess I realize that I am not their target audience.
The target audience these days is the writers room.
That would be funnier if it wasn't true.
This
And major shareholders.
They don't watch this drivel, they just make the decisions that lead to this drivel.
living in healthy California. As not US believe me we don't give shit about woke diversity positive segregation and so. just make good entertainment for god sake please!
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yeah I still enjoy older pop culture movies/shows. just bums me out how low the bar has sank.
Thunderball
Thunderball is really cool and I appreciate the work that went into the huge underwater sequences but they drag on SO long, lol.
The Sam Raimi Spiderman films are still a ton a fun.
I’m just sick of the same formula. Everything has to have some kind of cameo of some other in universe property or planned property so that the fandom nerds can all make this face 😮 then feel smug that they know who it is even though most of the audience is already well aware. It’s a subtle trick to give the audience the feeling of being in the know without actually putting any effort in.
It was cool the first couple of times, but it’s become so overused, I don’t want another cameo, I don’t care about interconnected storylines, I simply don’t care. I just want good story that entertains. The formula that Disney is using fails to do that now.
BUT CAD BANE!!!!
😯 Omg, Cad Bane???? But he was that guy in The Clone Wars!!!!! Now I can smugly explain to my dad that I already know who that guy is to feed my own ego!!! 🤓🤓🤓
Lol same here. I saw the Spider-Man movie last December and told my wife “I guess I’m just too grown-up to enjoy this stuff anymore.” All these shows and movies just seem so boring compared to their earlier iterations.
What’s odd, though, is I still enjoy the classic old Star Wars and earlier Marvel stuff. Maybe nostalgia? But I truly think that content was simply much better.
Yeah I love the OG trilogy and Spiderman 2 is one of my favorite all time movies, but even those movies had a good message to them and they were FUN!! none of these new projects or IP feel fun, like Star Wars should be fun! Andor feels like a space political science lecture.
If they’d make a Spider-man movie that actually dealt with idea of “With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility” and took itself seriously and not an MCU shitty comedy show than it’d be fantastic. Stories that teach a lesson and have a great story with thought and care put into it are timeless and ageless.
I think part of the shift is that marvel is no longer grounded. Its so removed from our world its no longer belivable.
I think thats why the netflix series did so well.
Good point. I rewatched the first Iron Man last year for the first time since I saw it in theaters. Of course it had fantastical elements, but the story was generally very grounded and compelling.
Seeing the massive slate of Star Wars/Marvel projects Disney wants to pump out doesn't fill me with joy and excitement, it just makes me feel indifferent. I just don't care anymore.
Same, I saw the new Antman trailer and was just numb. I haven’t been given a single reason to care about any of these characters who’ve been made into jokes who are now being a super serious high stakes movie…
*Super serious trailer, guarantee the movie will be nonstop jokes as well
I wish disney would just stop announcing star wars projects that they havent even stated at all. They are projects with a title, thats it.
Genuinely! I don't get hyped for any of the MCU films anymore. I only watched Endgame because I wanted closure, but I couldn't even get proper closure for that. I fell asleep trying to watch Doctor Strange, I was so disinterested in Captain Marvel thanks to *gestures vaguely at Captain Marvel* and nothing post Endgame has caught my eye at all.
FFS, the Sam Raimi Spider-man films are a million times better than Current Year Marvel shit.
You didn't age out, man. Disney just kills everything we love.
Yeah. The shows that appeal to me now are ones that appeal to my fatherly instincts, instead of my boyish instincts.
Action series about how a guy with no family or even girlfriend defeats the big evil guy? I sleep.
Action series about a military dad taking vengeance for his family? I wake.
Slice of Life series about a man becoming a father figure to a young girl while trying to prevent war? Real shit
Slice of Action series about a goofy intelligent sword raising his adoptive catgirl daughter to achieve her hopes and dreams? This is to go EVEN FURTHER... BEYOND!
Is that last one real?
Tensei shitara Ken deshita. It's an anime and yes that is exactly what the plot is.
Thank you!
Yes. As the other guy said, it's an anime called Reincarnated as a Sword, but it's also got a series of Light Novels and Manga. It makes for some very good light reading at the gym while getting your ass kicked by cardio.
Fran is a very good daughter, and Shishou (the sword) does his best to be a good role model and father figure.
Same. Glad I saw Star Wars when I did. Other the mandalorian and boba get, Star Wars is dead to me
Yes because you bastards killed it with shitty writing and concepts
Imagine buying a brand for $4.05 billion and believing that it needs to be fixed.
Andor is actually awesome
KK's life's work is done.
She made sure everything had her stamp of shit-tier quality somewhere on it and this was the direction she set it on.
The Mandalorian was good until Darth Mickey decided to fire Gina Carano, she's one of a kind.
Luke showing up in his xwing there was one of the greatest scenes I've seen in recent television shows. It has it's issues but compared to the other stuff they put out it's a damn demigod of perfection.
That scene was awesome, there's no doubt about it. But one of the major reasons The Mandalorian worked was its complete separation from the movies. There was no Ashoka or Luke or even R2. It was just a western set in space.
There's a really neat supercut of fans reacting to that whole sequence.
The rollercoaster of emotions they go through highlights exactly why that sequence was brilliantly written: first, there's this idea that it might be Luke, but nobody's sure. Then there are the hints, but no reveal, and the fans, who rightly don't want to let get down are suspicious at first, and Luke gets to be a badass and everyone gets to cheer and be excited for it while not having any significant plot elements bog down the enthusiasm...people were just enjoying the buildup to the reveal.
Oh...and by the way, there's a break in the middle to remind everyone whose show it is.
Finally, when everyone's gotten their "Luke is a badass Jedi fix" and the reveal happens, the story can proceed, once again reminding us whose show it is by handing off the emotional payoff: Mando removes his helmet; a big gesture in Star Wars canon.
Here's the thing: Favreau is an excellent writer because he genuinely understands people. Most screenwriters for popular franchises nowadays disregard an understanding of how people actually are and write for who they demand people to be, lest there be something fundamentally damaged about them.
Are people hating Andor? I only saw 2-3 episodes so far but I liked it.
Not hating, just not watching. It has the lowest viewership of any of their Star Wars shows so far, from what I read, which is too bad as I actually like it.
I wonder if because it's more drama and less lightsabers
~~Epstein~~ Star Wars didn't kill himself.
I’m probably in the minority here, but I’ve been really enjoying Andor. It’s honestly the only piece of nu-SW media that I have enjoyed without reservation, except maybe Fallen Order.
There’s little to no woke bullshit, the Empire is portrayed as (relatively) competent and threatening, there are no immediately immersion breaking scenes, no giant leaps in logic or character actions, and I like the Andor character. It feels like an old school EU novel turned into a show.
It is miles better than Obi Wan, which was a turgid disappointment that turned into a farce, and I prefer the Andor character to Mando.
Yes! I cannot remember the last time I actually enjoyed a piece of Star Wars stuff, but I am savoring this show. It is not cramming exposition down my throat. Sometimes it is communicating just through the set design and someone walking quietly through it.
Andor is a good show but I just can't care about Star Wars anymore. The sequels, along with the Boba Fett and Obi-Wan shows were so bad they killed my interest in the franchise.
I get that. I don’t care about SW as a franchise, or the overarching story if you will, because I know its all headed to the trashfire that is the sequel trilogy.
That said, I can still enjoy a good self contained story like Andor or Fallen Order, set in version of the SW universe that feels more grounded and similar in tone to the better parts of the old EU.
I haven’t watched Boba Fett, but Kenobi went from boring to awful, so I hear you there.
I think most of the dislike for Andor comes from a couple camps:
1) People that want to hate everything Star Wars at the moment.
2) People that do not enjoy slow burn media.
I can definitely understand the second, and I have friends who can't watch the show because of that. I am on neither side and agree with your analysis (to this point).
I just don't like Cassian. He's like episode 4 Han without the charm. I still enjoyed the show, but the recruiter and Mothma are the best characters.
I guess that's fair. I like his struggle and the way the character behaves realistically given his circumstances, but he's not exactly charismatic or anything.
It's just like most Disney star wars is star wars but woke and Cassian is star wars but antifa. He kills cops and steals shit and punches Nazis.
Isn't that just the rebellion though? Sure, it may be an antifa message or whatever, but they're not beating the viewer over the head with it, nor is the total "win at all costs" mentality shown as a very good thing. Plus Cassian wants to be left alone and make money for the most part, not live in total rebellion.
Sure, and I agree showing the seedier side of the rebellion is cool, but it's pretty hamfisted. Especially since he doesn't seem to have any redeeming qualities until the end.
I think andor could have been sped up and cut all of the backstory about his home planet. It really didn't add anything to the story or his character.
The show would have been served well if they released episodes in 3 batches for each major arc.
I don't think I 100% agree with your first point. I do agree with the second for sure.
You are not alone on this one. Liked it too, but only watching when 3 episodes (full arc) are released.
I keep telling my wife that the rest of Andor is nothing like the first three episodes and she's finally agreed to put it back in our planned watching list. But at the rate we're going through other things, we'll get there in December. Those first three episodes were ROUGH.
I really like Andor. Other than a few references to the Empire in the early episodes, it doesn't really seem like a "Star Wars" show.
In the early episodes at least, it's a crime thriller and then it turns into a heist movie.
I like it a lot, but boy isn’t it slow. Definitely a lot more people would appreciate it if it’s a little bit faster.
I know this is only tangentially related, but tell me more about these old EU novels. How do they compare to American novels and what are some good reads? You have piqued my interest.
This is just really sad. I loved star wars. Yes, even the prequels had it's merits and are somewhat enjoyable. But what they did in the last years with SW just killed the franchise for me. I just don't care anymore. It's really sad. They destroyed the lore.
Star Wars Declared A "Dead Brand"
Says some random YouTuber named "Valiant Renegade" - what a clickbait title.
With 14k subscribers, so you know he's the official Declarer of Dead Brands.
This all this sub posts dude. It's all click bait.
*by one youtuber
You stanning?
The Great British Bakeoff is on Netflix and is pulling in 2/3rds of Andor's minutes DESPITE being episodic (weekly) and has been on for a MONTH! So instead of see three shows, you're watching just one.
Fate, the Winx Saga, is beating it and it's a teen melodrama and not that good. I have yet to make it half-way through the first episode of Season 2. And, yes, it really is a teen melodrama written by teen-melodrama writers:
Apart from them, the crew behind Fate is entirely new to the Winx franchise, and the writers were recruited from teen dramas like The Vampire Diaries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate:_The_Winx_Saga
These should be NOTHING compared to Star Wars, the most successful science fiction IP in history. In fact, Andor should be #1 and not losing to a TEEN DRAMA SHOW ON NETFLIX!!! Yet it's not #1 and it's losing.
So here we are, Star Wars, a $4 billion IP, is losing to these programs, with the most painful being Winx which is not very good! That's a dead, over-exposed franchise.
Next week I expect Andor to be passed by more Netflix dramas such as Shadow & Bone which I saw episode 1 and thought it was pretty good. And it's not like Shadow and Bone is high-brow. Rather it's based on a young adult fantasy adventure series.
This might not come as a surprise, but "Fate" is another bastardized Netflix remake of a beloved franchise. Have you tried watching the original "Winx Club"--the Italian cartoon that the Netflix adaption was based on? It's girly, but much better. (There's a couple of different translations of it. Most prefer the "Rai" English version)
I still can't believe a bad adaption of Winx beat a Star Wars show though. Man...
I remember thinking Winx Club was going to be a shallow attempt at capturing what W.I.T.C.H did for teens except for a tween demographic instead.
It was actually really, really enjoyable even if the Danish voice actors were kinda hammy.
Winx, Martin Mystery and Totally Spies were great, ignoring the fetish bait.
It was easy to confuse them, or think one was a rip-off of the other as they were quite similar, both were European shows about magical girls, although IIRC the Winx girls were fairies or something like that, and W.I.T.C.H was French, not Italian.
Funnily enough, both franchises did the whole "diversity" before SJWs even cared about it...
And they did the diversity really, really well! I remember absolutely loving the shit out of the shy, awkward black girl Taranee.
All of the WITCH girls had great personalities that were vastly different, they were flawed and only sometimes did the main girl feel like a Mary Sue.
These days, "diverse" casts feel hamfisted, tokenised and like flawless Mary Sues. Or worse, the writers/fans romanticise legitimately toxic and problematic behaviour ~~Steven Universe~~
Martin Mystery is so underrated
For real. It was like the old Scooby-doo show, but more modern and with zanier characters and the magic that made me love Totally Spies.
such as Shadow & Bone which I saw episode 1 and thought it was pretty good
Lol... its not.
Shadow and Bone is teen-melodrama just like Winx
To be fair, The Great British Bake-Off is far more entertaining than any Disney Star Wars thing, save for The Mandalorian.
Andor should be #1 and not losing to a TEEN DRAMA SHOW ON NETFLIX!!!
The reality is teen drama shows draw their demographic big time and Netflix has a larger subscriber base than Disney+. So my question is why shouldn't Andor be losing to Winx Club? Especially when he isn't a character from the original six films, I'm not surprised that viewers are uninterested in a series about Cassian Andor of all people.
Just off the top of my head, the final Twilight film (2012) beat out Man of Steel (2013) by $200k. The takeaway here; don't underestimate the strength of teen dramas.
I didnt even know this show exists
I used to really love Star Wars as a franchise, but honestly, nearly everything after the original trilogy has been mediocre at best, straight-up garbage at worst.
The prequels had many flaws, but they still felt like Star Wars, delivered some epic scenes, and have a cultural legacy that continues to this day. The sequels completely screwed up the OT characters we knew and loved just to elevate the new characters, messed with established lore, and then wrapped it all up with absolute dogshit writing. The sequels' only cultural legacy is people mostly agreeing they sucked, and arguing against leftists defending The Last Jedi. I watched Rogue One and thought it was decent, but stayed away from the dumpster fire of Solo.
The Mandalorian was the first interesting Star Wars project in decades. It told a decent story with characters you grew to care about. It was faithful to how the Star Wars universe was portrayed in the OT. Then they went and fucked up by firing Gina Carano for daring to have a non-leftist opinion.
The Book of Boba Fett was disappointing. Fett's a fan favorite (and my personal favorite character) with a ton of EU stories they could've drawn from, and instead they have him playing "Dances with Wolves" with the Tuskens, and trying to become a crime lord despite not committing much crime.
The sequels and TBOBF really soured me on the franchise going forward, so I skipped Obi-Wan (which the terrible reviews and egregious lore fuck-ups confirmed was the correct choice) and now I'm skipping Andor because I just don't give a shit anymore.
How to ruin a franchise: Wokeness 101
What Disney has done with the Star Wars IP is a travesty.
The flaws and issues that the EU had still did not dampen fans enthusiasm for the product. Disney had the chance to cherry pick the good things from all of this stuff, leave out the questionable things and build more from the universe.
Instead Disney gave the franchise to people who wanted to subvert expectations who had no respect for prior lore or canon and allowed them to introduce massive plot holes and flaws. The last movie negating the sacrifices and story arc of Anakin and giving us the finale where a Palpatine kills their grand parent.
The amount of people that were hard-core Star Wars fans that would consume anything Star Wars that have tapped out that I personally know is sad to see. These modern day tales and myths that carry morality tales that are being subverted and torn down is concerning as what is replacing them is stories that glorify selfishness, narcissism and greed.
Andor is better than Obi-Wan so far imo. Though it's understandable that people are sick of Disney's crap.
Outside of the actual "main" movies, wasn't the point of them buying Star Wars to make all these shovel-shows because there were all sorts of Star Wars books, comics, etc., with readymade stories to plunder?
Are these shows expensive? Were they expecting them to be big hits or just content?
Imagine how much happier people would be if they just plundered the ready made stories instead of excising it all and doing their own.
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There’s nothing official, but it’s been widely reported that Lars Mikkelsen is playing Thrawn in Ahsoka (reprising the role from Rebels).
And TBH, it would be weird to pick up Ezra Bridget’s storyline without Thrawn’s involvement.
Then again, it also wouldn’t be the first time Disney did something dumb with Star Wars.
That's too bad, Andor is actually pretty decent, assuming they don't screw up the ending
I really struggle to understand how movies/tv shows with eight figure budgets for effects have such bad writing.
I find myself explaining what a “Mary-sue” is to people and I can see in their face them suddenly realizing why so many movies suck.
I found it impossible to care after they just plastered Star Wars ads everywhere for gd ever after they acquired it before their first movie. It felt impossible to do anything without being bombarded by Star Wars... Just Star Wars! Star Wars! Star Wars! 24/7... Despite trying to actively avoid it when I was sick of it.
Like... Holy shit Disney... Yes... I am aware of Star Wars... Thank you... Please fuck off now because you've made me resent the franchise with your aggressive ad campaign...
I just watched the first 15 minutes or so of the first episode last night, and really liked it. Heavy Bladerunner vibes, sadly, I was exhausted and had to rack out. Does it just nosedive from there?
No, it’s just that the 12 episodes are divided into 4 arcs (which flow one into the next), which are then broken down into (broadly speaking) 2 episodes of character and background, and 1 episode of full on action. Episode 3 is the first big action episode, but it wouldn’t have worked without episodes 1 and 2 building up to it. It’s be like making The Italian Job, but skipping to when they break into the Turin traffic control centre.
But as a result, it’s been criticised for being “slow”.
There is also limited fan service compared with, say, Kenobi or even The Mandalorian, but there’s been some references to future events that hadn’t previously been ported over from Legends.
It probably also doesn’t help that Kenobi and The Book of Boba Fett weren’t particularly well received.
Thanks for the explanation. Kenobi was meh to me, and I completely skipped Book of Boba Fett, so I 1000% understand the ennui with regards to the D+ shows.
It's a shame that more people aren't watching Andor, as it is very good. First episode was a bit slow, but damn it has gotten good. Ep 6 was amazing!
I almost didn't watch it though, after how crap Boba Fett was. Didn't even make it 5 mins into Obi Won.
Hopefully they'll let star wars rest in peace now.
Personally I think the world was a much better place when there were just 3 Star Wars movies.
They killed the golden goose.
The title implies Disney, or the corporate world at large, has declared it to be a dead brand. That is not the case. The only one the article cites as declaring it a dead brand is some random YouTuber.
Disney made a few shit movies, 1 hit TV show, then a shit ton of mediocre TV shows and are now surprised people don't care.
imagine how good a yuzhan vong trilogy could have been
Now Disney can sell Star Wars back to George Lucas for pennies.
looked at the top 10. i recognize 4 of them. am i an old fuck or are these just obscure?
also, sucks because i'm liking the show
When Fate: The Winx Saga has more viewers, you know you fucked up.
The problem is that Star Wars' story has already been told. We have seen Anakin's life from kid to his death in episode 6.
There's nothing really left to explore. It's a fun sandbox to play in but the substantial/important story has already been told.
At least Star Wars hasn't had a reboot... yet.
It's also why MCU is failing. After Endgame everything after feels like an unimportant side quest.
Who honestly cares if the Multiverse is in danger? People barely comprehend when the Universe is in danger, let alone infinite Universes. Its boring.
Doctor Who has the same problem where constant Universal ending threats just feel cheap and boring after the 30th time.
I think the primary problem with Phase 4 is they didn’t plan what to do after Endgame beyond “make a bunch of movies and TV series” with very little in the way of forward planning.
Phase 6 should have at least one good film though, since Deadpool 3 is in that block.
Doctor Who has the same problem where constant Universal ending threats just feel cheap and boring after the 30th time
That’s something I liked about Matt Smith’s run. Even when they literally destroyed the Universe, the focus of the story was much smaller in scale than any if Tennant’s series finales.
"Declared" by a random-ass Youtuber. Ok.
It doesn't help that Andor is simply...bad.
Like on paper, this should be a show I would like. I liked Rogue One, this is a period of star wars I've always been very interested in, the actual rebellion itself as a political and military movement, not just Luke's savior story, has always been something I liked a lot, and especially that they're going a bit more realism and shades of grey where not all rebels are good and not all imperials are evil. Plus the show hasn't done anything to alienate me politically, for once.
But it's just unwatchably slow and boring! Nothing HAPPENS! I feel like they've had three episodes of actual content so far stretched out over what, seven?
For once it's for completely apolitical reasons, but this show just BLOWS!
There's stuff happening, but it's a drama. Not many gunfights or spaceship battles.
It's an incredibly slow-paced drama. We didn't need like two episodes where Syril Karn didn't do anything but eat Greed-Os.
Haha, as long as his mother is there to berate him, he can eat all he wants as far as I'm concerned.
I kinda saw this coming when they decided to make one of the weakest characters in Rogue One to be the titular protagonist.
Also I'm probably one of those minorities who don't particularly like on how Rogue One tried to bring the SW universe into a more grounded setting, but at least it still has Vader doing Vader things, proto death star and interesting intepretation of the Force through the blind guy. Meanwhile with Andor I feel like the series has no business being a Star Wars show. I mean sure a star wars story can go with things beyond lightstick contests between space wizards, but being a political drama isn't one of them.
This is why we can’t have nice things,
People beg and beg Disney to cut out the fan service from Star Wars and try something new, literally Star Wars as a whole the last 5 years has been nothing but member berries on crack. Then we finally get a show that tries to do something different. Instead of rushing the plot like Boba and Obi-wan did they actually take that time to develop the characters, their motivations, strengths, weaknesses and the situations they find themselves in.
And what’s the audience reaction? People claim it’s boring and slow. Star Wars fans are the worst, we get the best and most refreshing Star Wars content in years and people hate it because they don’t see a Jedi, mandalorian or tattooine for 5 minutes
Andor suffers from the same problem as most of the streaming service series... there's a good 2-3 hour story in there somewhere, but they try to stretch out as much as possible in order to pad out their offerings.
With Star Wars it's particularly prominent, as both Boba Fett and Obi Wan started out as movies.
That is in no way what I said.
I said there's a ton of filler padding out the runtime, not that there aren't enough memberberries.
Look, I'm sorry, I agree with what it's trying to do, it just isn't doing it very WELL.
I’m honestly just speaking pretty generally and not trying to single you out, I’ve seen similar takes on andor and it’s frustrating. The show has great acting and sets and it’s very clear that the show has passion put into it, which was desperately missing in boba and obiwan. But because of the slow burn nature people don’t watch and support it, yet will turn around and shit on shows that don’t develop their stories and characters properly.
I feel like it had a 6 episode intro and now it can actually get somewhere. Ep 3 was decent, ep 6 was good, and ep 7 feel like they are finally getting somewhere with the plot. That is terrible pacing, and likely crippled the show taking that long to get going, but we might have a decent show now.
they did a 3 episode premier and it was 3 episodes of him trying to get off the planet it should have been one episode. also syril needs to be removed from the show
I like Syril. I actually have a lot of respect for him. He has a schlock job, but he was the one guy there who actually took some pride in it and gave a shit about trying to do it well, and was unappreciated and dicked over for that. And I think in the end he's going to come to the attention of Dedra Meero, who'll see something in him and that they're kindred spirits and he'll become part of the ISB and end up a similar "noble Imperial" to Kallus in Rebels. But it seems like his journey to meeting Dedra is gonna take him all season, when they could and should have met by about episode 4.
some random YouTuber said this
Clickbait much?
As decent as Andor is, I don't mourn this.
It's actually a really good show. The first few episodes are too slow though.
That's cool. too bad we know our entertainment industry is into necrophilia too...
RIP. At least I can play KOTOR forever.
I just hope that someone at Disney understands that this is not because of Andor, but because of everything they did before Andor.
I love Andor though... its probably better than S2 of the Mando. Definitely better than Obi Wan and Boba Fett.
Scape goating Andor for what was caused by The Sequels, Obi Wan and Boba Fett is not cool.
Solo was fine imho. Rogue One, amazing. Sequels, absolute shit. Boba Fett, meh. Obi Wan, trash with lots of potential. Mando, decent. Andor, great. Fuck Disney for tarnishing the holy name of Star Wars
It's too bad, I think Andor is pretty solid.
Andor is legitimately a great series. In fact, I think it's the best thing since ROTJ. I'm not going to abstain giving credit to the creators just because Disney fucked up every other Star Wars licensed property.
I really like Andor.
Cool. How much they want for it?
All of this was entirely avoidable as well … sad.
All I'm seeing is that Rings of Power did super well thanks to hate watchers, encouraging this sort of behavior.
I just don’t get the decision making here. You make a show about andor, why? Worse idea than solo
It’s a story about the early days of the Rebellion starting to coalesce into something that can actually take action.
You need to have a focus character, so you either start from scratch, or you get someone from the single best received movie you’ve made in the franchise.
Not totally dissimilar in idea to Rebels, which is chronologically concurrent, but this is dealing with the much seedier side of the Rebellion (which was also part of the old EU), rather than the nice clean image the Rebel Alliance usually gets.
Nobody is watching Andor because nobody left rogue one thinking “I wonder how those characters got there?”
So when is disney gonna cut projects like WB.
2 much content thats going nowhere
finally... now maybe we can move on to some fresh content for a change.
They are making a Rama show, and more Dune, and maybe, who knows, maybe they can think up something completely new.... i know, unlikely.
I was never a big Star Wars fans, but just watched due to the low amount of other scifi content out there, and by the end, I didn't even care anymore, it was just so bad.... baby yoda was the one small exception, maybe they can make a kids cartoon out of that....
Like they didn't even care anymore towards the end stages of this Star Wars 'thing' and it wasn't even just woke cringe anymore, it was just plain bad.
Look at how they massacred my boy...
The only Star Wars I'm interested in nowadays is MandaloreGaming's Stars War cut.
Disney has killed everything I've ever loved that either they originally created, or bought and abused.
It's not a dead brand. Or at least it doesn't have to be.
It can and has sold well when it is done well. Mandalorian shows the general audience still craves the content. They just don't crave destruction of their nostalgia and want the franchise to feel like itself.
Ultimately it is only dead in their hands because they've shown no inspiration with the idea. Their big movie releases should have easily been better than a TV show, and yet Mandalorian blew them out of the water with atmosphere.
Once it gets popular the big clueless execs rush in and ruin it. They don't want to admit their vision is shit.
It's not you. You haven't "outgrown" anything. The current product is shit. Go watch Ep 1-6 and you'll feel like a kid again. This isn't a break up. This isn't "it's not you, it's me" reverse psychology. Its THEM. The product is shit. They consistently hire people who are openly hostile to the fandom. The same fandom that made the franchise money. They hire hostile writers and directors, and then blame the fans. It isn't you. You can take a break. Play Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order. That thing is **EXACTLY** what we wanted. Watch The Mandalorian, Jon Favreau and Filoni still got it. But make your voice heard and make the brand accountable.
I tried to watch it. In complete fairness, its worlds more interesting than Obi Wan and that shitfire Boba Fett.
But on the other hand, thats not really saying much. I started playing with my phone mid-ep 2 and fell asleep for the rest of the eps. I think I just don't care. The past decade of Star Wars pretty much made me not give a shit. I honestly would be more entertained watching gameplay from Star Wars Galaxies than anything Rian Johnson is putting out. At least that way, I could have some nostalgia about when I used to care about the franchise.
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I was the Mayor Correspondent for a month before player cities actually went live during pre NGE. I had so much fun in that game. Gorath server - Mayor of Mos Tera. Also ran Gorathimperial dot com. I miss it. Looked into emu servers but apparently you can only join if you have physical CD copies, which doesnt make sense to me, but saddens me.
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I don't have either. well, not anymore, at least.
Andor's social media campaign felt incredibly forced and had I not already given up on them after what they did to Gina Carano I would have given up on watching Andor just on the demerits of their social media hype.
They wanted me to not be the target audience?
Fine.
This is me, not watching their content.
Good.
As much as I love Star Wars, watching Disney flail with it as they try to turn it into the next MCU has been unbearable.
Dead brand?
LoL. There is no mall, supermarket or even small store where you will not find anything related to star wars.
I have no idea who okayed this show. No one knows who this character is
The Mandalorian is still doing pretty well. The book of boba fett did okay. A lot of the prequel stuff isn't really all that interesting because you already know how a lot of this stuff ends up, and the quality of the writing has been somewhat lackluster(boba fett and kenobi had a lot of issues). The last trilogy of movies were pretty bad too. Maybe they just need to come up with some projects that continue to extend the universe, progress the story forward, not backwards, and make it interesting and well-written.
The funny thing is that there's tons of actually great extended universe content in book form that predates A New Hope and follows Return of the Jedi that Disney thought was worth scrapping even though the formula for making great films and shows was already laid out for them in terms of the story.
Andor is amazing
The Mandalorian is the only thing saving the franchise from being completely dead.
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I am Mnemosyne reborn. 404 witty remark not found. ^^^/r/botsrights
And you killed it.
The people running Lucasfilms / SW think they won every battle and are surprised to find out they lost the war.
This is great news! Maybe they will stop making new shows soon and let the IP go into hibernation. Then, at some point Kennedy will either lose her job, get poached away from Disney, or die a peaceful natural death, and the creative people at Disney can revive the IP and start making good entertainment again.
I often wonder if this was what George Lucas planned. Everyone complained about his movies, now he wanted a way to destroy them.
But it's also funny how noone is asking, at least not that I know of, for Lucas to come back and direct.
There's plenty of people on social media who still feel like George Lucas would do a shit load better of a job with Star Wars even though his script writing skills are ass.
Going back on what I said, yeah, I think I would prefer the phantom menace over everything else.
His idea for the sequel trilogy was going to focus on some things related to the midichlorians. And we all know how much people liked the midichlorians.
It's an ok show and most of it is boring.
Is it too much to hope for that Disney themselves said this?
Sounds about right
More like An-Snore, amirite?
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Don't tell r/television, they've got a real hard on for Andor apparently
It’s cool, Disney are subverting our expectations so in return the long abused fanbase are subverting Disney’s profit projections.
Win win…
Oh, but nobody hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans...
Jesus Christ, if you're not making product that the people who want that product in the first place can be bothered to like, it isn't the fucking fans that are the problem.