Tl:dr
- Re-evaluate your fucks
- Only focus on the higher ones
- Stop giving a fuck about the other fucks
Saved yall 200 pages of drivel and how many women he fucked
Tl:dr
Saved yall 200 pages of drivel and how many women he fucked
how many women he fucked
Ballpark it for me?
Are there descriptions ? Whatās the point of this in the book
Wasnt it a blog that got made into a book?
So making money is the point I think
Yes. The number of really great blog posts that get made into books is ā¦ well ā¦ almost all of them in that space. Everything that really needed to be said was covered in the post, but now itās been fleshed out to 200 pages and still says basically the same thing. A lot of people are very good at this.
I've noticed this quite a few times. I'd seen a podcast with the author of atomic habits. Figured I needed an easy read to burn through.
Turns out he covered about 85% of the book on the podcast
That's why I like Mike Duncan's two books. Storm Before the Storm expands on all the craziness in Rome before Julius Caesar was the big man on the block and Hero of Two Worlds is a fantastic biography on Lafayette and talks about the 3 revolutions he was part of. Yes, he did talk about them those topics in his podcasts, but he expands so much on all of them. If you like history and podcasts listen to History of Rome and Revolutions and read his books. He's great.
I think I'm gonna read storm before the storm. That sounds like an awesome book!
Thanks for this. Sounds right up my alley.
Still waiting for him to finish the Russian Revolution so I can binge it.
Good news, he's done it. He's moved on breaking down revolutions and what causes them now. Then he's done.
Do you remember the podcast?
Almost certainly the minimalists podcast. They're fun for a few episodes. I actually really like the two hosts. I'm just not into listening to people talk about minimalism that much lol. It's more of a tool to me than a lifestyle
Thanks
Which podcast was it?
I mean The Martian was a pretty good book
No, The Martian is the best book. But the Martian wasn't a 1,000-word blog post that got passed around the Internet for a hot minute and then turned into a book for profit and ego. It was written online and then turned into a pdf that was printed and distributed. Luckily it never got made into a mediocre movie with Matt Damon because that would be terrible.
As far as blog post to book, Seth Godin has made a career of it, but I admit to having read most of his books and occasionally return to a few.
Making money is the point of every self help book.
making money is the point
Isn't it usually?
Manson started out by blogging about how to fuck as many women as possible and wrote a bestseller on the topic. In "The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck" he pivots towards general self-help but still makes references to his previous content
Wow.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12633800-models
You are right. I had no idea he had written this other book first...
Models is better than most of the other pick up dating advice books.
Models asks the reader several times throughout the book to seriously consider why it is that they're even reading it in the first place. It asks the reader to consider therapy. It heavily criticizes the pick up lingo and methodology used throughout the dating advice world. And asks the reader why those methods are even necessary in the first place.
It tells the reader that the best thing they could do to improve their dating life is to consider those why's and analyze them. That the best strategy for dating and "game" is self-improvement. Unapologetically living ti your own values. And being in tune with your vulnerabilities enough to admit what it is you are actually seeking from the relationships you are desiring. If you want sex, honestly ask for that. With no frills and no misdirection. Make sure that it's communicated properly and understood by any and all parties. If you want a wife, honestly ask for that. Don't pretend to be here one moment and gone the next. Don't pretend that you may disappear the very next moment if you don't get what you want.
Models is not for the average person. It's a bit of a trap book. It pulls people in who are either already entranced by the pick up, red pill, world by putting on a familiar anesthetic that people who get into that kind of thing will be drawn in by. And it was damn effective. It is entirely a trap though, it does not advise you to take on some specific method and rather deconstructs self-improvement literatures that existed at the time. As a young person, I was pulled into that world and I'm thankful of Mark for writing Models in such a way that spoke to me. Going straight from The Game into Models saved me from a lot of bullshit that others got involved in.
If it disgusts you, don't worry that's probably a good thing. It's not supposed to appeal to the average person who's already secure enough within themselves to not seek out self-improvement. I just hope that people would get to that book first if they're struggling with insecurities and lack confidence in dating. Because the alternatives are sleazy pickup camps, endless Game methodology, and The Red Pill. Because of all that, I actually think Models is the best thing Mark Manson has written. It's just sad that you have to basically be engrossed into a cult in order to truly get that.
Yeah. Models is much better than TSAONGAF.
Targeted at men who don't know how to navigate the dating scene, who would otherwise pick up pickup artist manifestos. The advice is unexciting bordering on inane ("wear clothes that fit", "learn to be honest and vulnerable", "dinner and a movie is a lousy date"), but the alternative advice is shit like "learn magic tricks to get their attention", "insult women into sleeping with you", etc. In Models, he even says something like "the fact that you bought this book shows that you are thinking way too much about this shit".
But the dude never had a particularly interesting or insightful worldview. His genius was figuring out how to market "acting like a normal, honest, confident person is sexy" to aspiring pickup artists. Just look at his blog to see how mundane his perspective is! TSAONGAF is wack.
Ya, Models changed my life and I agree it his is best.
And I agree with you about his blog too. When he talks about relationships and self confidence, he is very in his element. But anytime he tries to branch further he comes across as very out of his element.
He has one article on his website that delves into parental psychology. And it's just a mishmash of contradicting ideas and you can definitely tell he's out of his element and he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Yea this book was pretty solid, and curtailed my expectations.
So more like āthe not-so-subtle art of giving fuckā
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not giving a fuck is the pathway to getting a fuck
It's these hoarders of fucks that lead our fuckconomy to have such widespread fuck inequality.
Maybe the real fucks were the ones we gave along the way
I just learned the true meaning of fuck
The true fuck was inside of him, the whole time.
Woah. Bruce Willis actually got fucked in the first scene! WHAT A TWIST!
Trickle down fuckonomics ain't working out for all of us
Ewww
Fucking fuckflation is fucking us!
I donāt give a fuck. I was gonna but I followed step one and reevaluated my fucks and that got me through it.
To appeal to the incel/ wannabe Dan Bilzarian crowd. That's where the money is.
Eights of women.
You ever make the eight, Ned?
Several
Imaginary
I was going with the number that he probably reported, whereas you are going with the actual number.
Take the number in the book, divide by 4. That's the real answer.
Holy crap Iām not the only one. Itās a pretty forgettable book, but I remember that he brings this up on multiple occasions. I recall thinking āokay dude, geez we get it you banged a bunch of people.ā
There's also no reason to believe them.
Yup. Someone at work suggested it for book group, so I suggested something more useful and mine got picked. Not sure if we'll ever get to Manson's book because I have a lot more suggestions...
You can't say that without mentioning what you suggested
I suggested Why We Sleep, which seemed a little more substantial.
That's a fantastic book
When did he mention his sexual life? I've read the book twice (and your 1-3 are spot on) so maybe I blacked out at some point reading it... but don't remember any sex bragging?
He mentioned how much more fulfilling it is to be in a committed relationship and to have a soulmate, rather than multiple short term relationships based on his experience
We'll there you go! He's a humble-bragging bastard! String him up, boys!
Iād normally be right with you on this one but apparently his previous book was a pickup/seduction book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12633800-models
Not really. It's marketed as such, but the advice is like
pretty mundane stuff, but the marketing is really the key. He sucks you in with "how to attract women" and then very quickly is like "if you bought this book you are being a fucking weirdo, here is how to be a normal human". Couched in edgy language, of course. But for a lot of men who grew up steeped in our culture of constant envy, anxiety, buy-buy-buy, it's exactly the answer they need to their "how do I do this whole 'dating' thing" question. Otherwise they're gonna pick up like, Neil Strauss or something lol.
Subtle Art might not have much depth. But the one you're linking is actually a really solid book.
Yeah, found the angle to grind my axe on. Yay!
Sounds more like he knew his wife would read it.
lol, how is this bad? Anyway I didn't read this book but I did read his other book and thought it was good.
Redditors when someone implies they have had sex š³
Sex takes on the texture of science-fiction for them.
You are they
r/redditmoment
I think it's that the point of a relationship for many people is to find their solemate, and it's only a short term relationship when you realize they aren't the one. So he's basically saying instead of looking for your solemate you should just find it. Which isn't really how it works.
Hmm, yeah and no. Obviously it takes some mistakes to find a permanent partner, but what the author said was one-night stands and just being promiscuous (not necessarily bad if thatās how they want to live and as long as no one is hurt, but the constant āalphaā attitude the author has is boring. Really feels like the books is the author just reassuring the reader how wild their life is/was)
I recall him telling stories scattered throughout about howd he wake up after drug induced one night stands. I had this on audiobook and was driving long distance so maybe i zoned out and imagined him saying it lol
Same. Might be misremembering as it's been 2 years but I dont remember him ever doing that.
People are weird as fuck. I read this book and what I remember best is the story of William James, because that story has stuck with me everyday since. This book actually made me feel better and his tip or view whatever you wanna call it, on simply improving the kind of problems you have, is priceless. Because it's the whole truth. You will never get rid of problems, but you can better the kind you deal with. That was dope.
I've read it twice and I don't recall it either.
So you're saying the author could be a candidate for r/IHaveSex?
pretty much.
And the swearing got old super fast. It started annoying me so much that I stopped reading ā¦ and I even swear like a salty trucker.
Establish what is and isn't important in the long run.
Saved you from tryhard edginess and clickbaitiness of books like this
Jesus christ I couldn't even get to the fucking part, it was drivel of the highest order.
If you want to read some proper self help books read Martin Seligman's What you can change and what you cannot.
Learned Optimism is also excellent read it straight after.
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But written by a blogger who swears a lot.
Ya know, you don't need to read this book. Just read meditation of Marcus Aurelius and he talks about the same damn thing.
Iāve read this book twice. I think it does drag on with the stories, but some of them are really great. Particularly, there was a story in there about a Japanese general that continued fighting on some island in the South Pacific after WW2 ended because he didnāt believe the pamphlets that were dropped saying Japan lost. He fought into the 60s or 70s, attacking and burning local farms. When he was finally convinced the war was over, he found very little happiness in his life and ended up moving to South America.
The idea, according to the book, is that he spent most of his later life giving a fuck about something that was clearly pointless. And when he realized the last 20 years didnāt matter, he couldnāt handle it.
There were other great stories in there too, like the one in South Africa. I think if folks want to read this book, I would approach it like a collection of short stories with a ādonāt give a fuckā theme throughout.
Commence with the crunching. Make it so.
My brother in Captn, peace be upon you
Yeah, guy was a PUA (Pick Up Artist)
Bingo!
So I didn't miss anything putting it down after 2 chapters (which I did enjoy), thank you much.
Lol, this is pretty much what I learned as well, hence also why I didnāt give it a 5 star, since I learned it already through life. His sequel however, I gave 5. canāt remember anymore, why. Iāll read it again, I guess
This is in 7 habits basically
and how many women he fucked
I'm guessing "a lot"? At least, according to him?
I couldnāt finish it.
He mentions how many women he's had sex with?
It's so much to just say "Some things in life matter more than other things." Such a basic message when it's all said and done.
You get this point in the first few pages too so the rest certainly isnāt worth the read, for me at least - I only read like 20 pages and stopped lol
He talks about how many women he fucked in the book?
"don't sweat the small fucks"
My husband and I started listening to the audiobook on our honeymoon for the long car ride and got about 45 minutes in after 3 attempts until I finally stopped and said, "What are we getting out of this? I feel like this guy is just saying the same 3 things over and over in different ways. Some things you need to give a fuck about. Most things you don't. Know the difference between the two. Do we need another 5 hours of this?" Then we put on Colin Jost's A Very Punchable Face and had a much better time.
I thought it was ok. No the message is not complex, but sometimes it's good just to have some reminders.
^ basically i was so mad after reading it i did not see the hype lol
Could've read 4,000 Weeks and actually had an interesting read instead.
Shit I give a similar talk at work and can knock out an entire system of fuck/no-fuck decisions in an hour. Maybe i should write a book and cash in on common sense.
Who the fuck doesn't know this shit
Add to that: 4. Every once in a while you'll feel life is pointless so put yourself in a controlled life or death situation (skydiving or w/e) to get back on fucking track. From last chapter if I'm not mistaken.
I'd agree it's not a good book but it is also a selfhelp book so...
Where can I send you the 15.99 I would have spent on this book?
i.e. a paraphrase of Stoicism with saucy language.
I had to look up the author. My assumption based on the title and his looks was that his writing probably wouldāve really connected with me when I was 20, even though he looks like heās in his 40s.
I feel like the act of writing a book about "Not giving a fuck." already invalidates every opinion of the writer. Seems like they really, really, give a fuck.
Honestly your synopsis is spot on. Gave it a listen a couple years back while working. I could say I donāt really give a fuck about that (or most self-help) book.
That sounds exactly like the guy that recommended the book to me
Thanks for saving us from all the women he fucked
This has been on my list for so long, thanks for saving me hours of my life lol
I had an ex-girlfriend gift me that book, and it was one of the first clear signals that we weren't gonna work out. I am already well versed in not giving a fuck. The book is still sitting on my bookshelf untouched.
Literally all it was. Lol this is a very accurate summary
Hey I was thinking it was just an experiment to see how many coherent sentences he could work the word āfuckā into.
Wish it, Want it, Do it
Yeah that was the part I didnāt like is I donāt understand why he had to talk about the amount of women he was with because the whole point of the book was to not tie yourself to bad habits like wasting time and energy on one night stands. Itās a very small part of the book but it annoyed me. He used to write how to romance vlogs so thatās probably why.
Not to be confused with itās predecessor: āhow to not give a shit, the art of not caring.ā Replace ever fuck with shit and youāve got it.
You make it sound like it was written by Frank Reynolds.
It's true, it's so true
I was drawn to the book by the title and the first few pages were great. But then it's just repeat constantly
My wife got it and asked if I wanted to read it. It was frustrating to see the same old advise thrown down but with more swearing.
This is basically all self help books. Small idea dragged out to 200+ pages.
Exercise, eat more vegetables, don't sweat the small stuff, keep a journal, practice mindfulness, cut toxic people out of your life, forgive yourself.
There. That's every self-help book. Saved everyone some money.
You should write a book. The Self-Help Addicts Guide to Self-Help Books: Separating the Useless From the Stupid.
If a book can be one page, sure. And if most of the page can be a cute picture of a baby panda.
Ok, orā¦ hear me outā¦ the book has 1000 pages, with your words on the first page, and the remaining 999 are a flipbook animation of a baby panda falling off a log and rolling down a gentle slope.
Okay but, Iād legit buy this book if the animations were done well.
Would you buy it if the animations were mediocre, but you could tell they tried?
Asking for a friend.
I would buy it on sale.
BEST SELLER MATERIAL
I would buy this immediately.
Panda Bears spend 2 to 3 hours at a time just to eat. Then they take a nap and when they wake up they have to eat again. Bamboo isn't very nutritious, iirc so they have to eat all day.
Where can I pre-order this book?
I love this!
Youāre a freakinā genius! I would absolutely buy this.
Or blank pages to journal on.
How about after the first page its a coloring book?
take my money
Panda bring chased by a capybara being chased by a goose. Bam!
But be absolutely sure you don't give a fuck about it
Sold.. can't wait to hang the book on the wall to be reminded of it daily.
Look at you. With your fancy hanging book.
Trifold pamphlet. One paper, 6 places for pandas
Make it a red panda and I'm sold.
Saaame!
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Bruh thread necro much lol
Make the rest a journal .
I'm picturing a children-type book where its maybe 5 sentences total but they somehow spread it out across 30 pages and fill the backgrounds with mostly unrelated drawings of hippos walking through water. And the last three words are laid out diagonally across the last page with a thousand ellipses.
Self help pamphlet
Those are called posters
Have a page for each of your points, and put the picture of a cute animal either above or below it. You now have a short book of HR positivity posters.
Perfect excessively long title
I smell a best seller
It's one page with that sentence and the rest is just cat pictures
Becomes so popular, now you need a follow up book. What do you write for that one?
The Obvious Need for Giving Some Fucks: Another Thing That You Should Already Know, Asshole.
Brilliant. Take my money!
This is hilarious and if I had been the originator of your idea, I would've totally gone through with it.
There is definitely a group of people who are addicted to self-help books, so writing a self-help book to help those addicts is actually a great idea.
It can be tongue-in-cheek but also offer some valid points to help people navigate their hectic lives without feeling like they need to hold a book's hand for everything they do.
I hate how self help books are useless for neurodivergent people. I got adhd and everytime a book gives me tips on improving my focus itās pretty useless.
I have ADHD, and I've found a couple ADHD books that were at least fun to read for validation. But yeah, the problem I've had with my own ADHD is that I know all the "tactics" that help, but when my brain doesn't have the juice to do something there's no amount of can-do spirit that can make me do it.
It's like, "I know I need to get out of the chair and leave the burning building, I even know where the door is. I can see the door. But I don't have any fucking legs and also I'm chained to the chair."
āI should learn how to pick locks. That would be awesome.ā
Searches best lock pick companies. After researching pick designs and specific purposes, builds the perfect custom set.
āDamn thatās more expensive than I thought. Could I make some?ā
Sheet metal research. Spring metal research. Grinders and laser cutters.
Dies from smoke inhalation.
The thing that caught fire? My daily planner
Empty, of course
No, no - it's not empty, it has 1 full day's to-do list written out from when I had that burst of motivation to plan out my days to fix everything and do all the stuff. Written, of course, shortly before it sat on my desk for 3 months untouched.
My struggle. YOU KNOW
ONE OF US. ONE OF US
My people!!! I love you all because YOU UNDERSTAND
Holy fuck theres more of me?
I donāt think Iāve been so accurately described by a random stranger on the internet beforeā¦
I have ADHD too and struggled with this for years. I still struggle from time to time. But my therapist told me confidence comes from doing. I kept saying that over and over and over in my head. Now, my house is clean, I donāt forget appointments as much, and Iām running a business with my partner.
You can change your brain and rewire it. This is coming from someone that was diagnosed at 21 with what the psychiatrist said was the worst ADHD sheād ever seen, with the fastest processing skills, and best masking techniques. Note: she also said the masking is so hard to detect because Iām a female and itās much harder to read the problems I have when The masking is part of me.
So basically to sum it up, I had a LOT of growth in the past 12 years (Iām 33 now). And even though ADHD is still a huge part of my life, it has gone from having 100% control over me down to 15% on a good day.
Have faith in yourself and use your wandering mind to your advantage. Find what makes you tick and listen to your trains of thought. Where do they keep leading? Make connections like I know youāre good at doing. And wherever those thoughts keep leading, find your lifeās desires and will it to yourself to make them happen.
Start by doing something, anything, that leads you to your goal. and donāt forget to forgive yourself when you stumble. Look at mistakes as a positive thing.
Hope this advice isnāt unwarranted, but I canāt help but reach out when I see people in the same place I was a few years ago. DM me any time. Good luck!
Thank you!
Oh my. This is me. This is my life. That last paragraph nailed it on the head. I literally donāt want to see a doctor about it because of the stigma. And plus, it would take alot to actually call and get a doctor and make the call. Ugh!
Ever since I got on meds, it has improved a lot. You should go to a doctor, it's worth it
Lmao, this is the laziest thing I've ever heard. Can't help yourself, too much work. Call together with a friend or something, ask for help.
The are ways to get legitimately diagnosed online. I think the one I used was this: https://adhdonline.com/
Bro this has been me all day. I have moments of genius where i can mount a herculean effort to learn something extremely complex within a certain amount prolonged focus and other days where i fucking struggle to feel like i can accomplish anything with my life. It's the mood swings which are so complex(maybe not mood swings because I never get sad or upset, just feels like no motivation for anything). I've learned that working on something truly creative/artistic can help me get out of the bind such as playing a musical instrument but there are some days like today where everything feels useless so I just go through the motions and hope something positive sticks
"Tip #1 stop sweating the small stuff" oh thanks, that cleared my manic depression up right away, thanks self help "genius"
As a depressed ADHD person Mindfulness and Meditation are just intrusive thoughts lol.
same. learning to deal with it as an intrusive thought bubbles up outta nowhere and observing it objectively (meditation) seems to help though.
Lofi and Massage Parlour music is the only thing that makes me relax.
It's because ADHD is a hardware problem, not a software problem. Treating ADHD with a book is like trying to download more RAM
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This guy has really good breakdowns and has great audience engagement
Have you tried, y'know, focusing? Making deadlines? Keeping a calendar? Keeping focus only on the important things?
/s ?
Definitely "/s".
You have to look for books for people with ADHD! There are tons.
I haven't looked for that topic in a book before -- my main understanding of what you can do for attention is just medication, sleep, exercise, and meditation -- but I've found some very helpful for understanding the condition and the impacts it has. I really liked "Adult ADHD-Focused Couple Therapy" because it's brief but covers everything from the basics to how ADHD affects relationships and even sex.
I have spent a lot of time in therapy but unfortunately Ritalin was essential to be able to become somewhat functioning although it fucks with my depression and anxiety.
Yeah, medication is the number one most effective thing we can do to improve executive functioning. There are sometimes ways to counteract the side effects. I take as low of a dose as I can to still see benefits but not side effects.
Are there things you can focus on pretty easily?
There is the phenomenon called Hyperfocus that lets an ADHD person focus great on one specific thing for hours and usually everything that gives a lot of Dƶpamine works.
The biggest problem is consistency, so I am usually good at a job for a month until my Autopilot sets in and I find it awfully boring.
There are a few productivity experts who have it, and itās a clear advantage. Their approach is significantly more flexible, and fun seeps in.
Marie Forleo - Everything is figureoutable Ryder Carrol - Bullet journal guide
If youāre fine with video coaching, Tivers and McCabe are both helpful.
Including self-help books written for neurodivergent people/people with ADHD?
don't forget waking up at 5pm, cut caffeine and exercise!
lol 5pm wake up, my kind of book!
If I cut caffeine, I probably would end up sleeping until 5pm.
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They knew what they were doing
Except one can understand the meaning from the context.
No, money down!
When I was first diving into my personal growth, self help books got the ball rolling. I realized theyāre never an actual answer, just what this one person realized throughout their own personal growth. I was eventually able to draw parallels and get out of the āthis book will fix my lifeā mindset. Now sometimes I read them to see if Iāve made similar epiphanies in my own growth. I use them kind of like a jumping off point. So for those of you that are disheartened by someone saying ātheyāre all crap,ā theyāre not crap if you donāt take them literally and keep a curious mind.
Iām not a fan of the book OP is talking about (it was getting repetitive so I put it down) but there are others that I enjoyed and they at least got my brain thinking in a forward direction.
Sounds like my relationship with AA!
I take a lot of inspiration from AA. I know people in the program. Itās a great program and it promotes great mental health techniques that all of us could benefit from. Thatās kind of my point too. If youāre seeking out self help, in any form, there is kind of a pattern youāll pick up on. It all leads forward when you learn how to apply things to your own life.
Edit: PS congrats on being sober!!
Thank you! And I completely agree.
No one has said āsave more money, donāt waste itā? Guess I need to start writing that self help book.
Someone already wrote the millionaire next door
But inflation is up. A million aināt nothing. My book will be āthe Billionaire next door.ā
He is the Messiah!
He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy.
I'm pretty sure the point of a book is you go into detail about each of those points. Anyone can write that list of things you should do to improve yourself, it's about what convincing arguments and stories the author has to tell about the topics.
Quit Facebook
Lawyer Up
Don't be Poor
Don't be Ugly
Success!
jesus christ bro you trying to ruined a million dollar industry?
When I went to rehab there was an entire store of these books and itās hilarious how many of them were basically ākeep a journal and be insightful.ā Your comment is hilariously accurate. But Iād be lying if half of us didnāt buy shit like the 4 agreements out of boredom or desperation.
Thanks dad.
You forgot drink plenty of water, I demand a refund!
water? like from the toilet?
Water is for cowards.
Is keeping a journal really that good? I could never get into it
For real. I knew a lady writing one of these once. Her entire idea for the book was āeat less, and move moreā and youāll lose weight.
No shit, Sherlock.
Weāre all waiting for her amazing sequels ātake a bath and youāll smell less badā and ādonāt run with sharp objectsā
Wear. Sunscreen.
For 14 seconds I thought this was the plot of Zombieland
Limber up. Cardio. Enjoy the little things.
Beware of Bathrooms.
Double Tap. When in doubt, don't get stingy with your bullets.
Excuse me, Mr. Self Help Guru.
Can I deep fry the vegetables? Also, do cookies count as vegetables?
Lastly, since hops are leafy, does beer count as a barley salad?
Then fill out 300 pages full of the same tired stories. "Have you heard of the marshmallow test?" "This one guy didn't have a lot of money, then he had a small business that was bought by a larger corporation, so now he's a millionaire."
Did you manifest this comment tho?
Honestly I really ought to keep a journal. I used to think my musings on Facebook posts about my thoughts on things or what I've been up to would suffice, but they never did, and even IF they did, I use it too infrequently anymore, and with too much self-censorship, for it to really be a journal.
My friend had a great phrase he loved about this:
That was pretty funny and wise life advice for me as a pre-teen, and it still is today.
Omg. That advice was amazing. You should write a book.
Wear sunscreen!
My take-away was it's the human condition to find problems; you simply want to trade up your problems (from "I don't have food to eat" to "it's raining on my vacation")... helped put things in a bit of perspective. With that being said, I agree overall.
Who the fuck in capitalism has time for this shit?
Ah, but that's the idea.
Can you write 200 pages on this please? Iād like to create a similar reddit post and have comments like ādidnāt that book start out as a reddit postā
Hey it's me a publisher. If you could stretch this out by like 10k more words we could have a best seller here. Let me know.
Don't forget the cold showers.
for people who came from fucked up environments some of these are impossible without specific instructions - some people have never seen or know of anyone doing this things and weren't taught even how to process the information
also /r/wowthanksimcured
Ya'll reading the wrong books. Or you're reducing self-help books to merely their ideas (easy to summarize, dime a dozen) rather than either the functional strategies for practical implementation of those ideas or the ways in which the author helps you integrate the idea through effective storytelling.
But what do you mean?
You didn't save me any money, but now I can say I at least read them!
You forgot "buy my money cream so you can grow money out of your sweat pores."
I liked how Why We Sleep handled this. It's not a "self-help" book per-se, but I loved how the author said that if you fall asleep reading it, he has done his job.
I really wish authors of self-help books could be so self-aware and point out that the title plus first paragraph of the book tell you basically everything you need to know about the contents, and the rest is just filler so you can feel like you're doing something productive.
Wear sunscreen.
Hell, I'm willing to boil it all down to one phrase.
Value yourself
How would that help anyone with real problems?
Nah there are maybe two or three insightful ones I had a chance to read. But you described 99% of them for sure.
r/wowthanksimcured that's how my dad is. Both my parents have their own abuse and trauma, and they did plenty to me, but they refuse to believe cPTSD is a thing, or ADHD, they have always refused to go to therapy, but they nearly forced me to go but I eventually left and went on my own. It always makes me laugh when my dad tells me to cut out toxic people I'm like ...there's the door!
The crux of self help advice should be to instill the notion that there are no universal success metrics and its vital to invest time and effort into exploring and defining your personal success metrics - things that inspire, impassion and fulfil you - then orienting your life around pursuing them.
All the other shit to do with diet, sleep, exercise and even social skills are better taken from other sources written by authors who are experts in these fields
And all the anecdotes and humble bragging (which they're all dripping with because it takes a certain level of hubris to author a self help book) just makes me put them down and never pick them up again
Donāt forget wake up at 5, breathe oxygen and take cold showers!
self help books are basically philosophy books without the meaning.
aka sophistry
Hey man, the forum may have changed a bit in the last 2,000 years but there are still drachmas to be made.
Except some sophists had interesting and original ideas
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Jordan Peterson comes to mind. "JuSt sToP CoMpLaiNiNg aNd GeT tO wOrK"
A lot of his shit is just telling you to be grateful that you live in the modern age and that we should look back to biblical times to remind ourselves not only how good we have it, but also how 'evil' we've become... I swear that guy is just going to continue to fall to pieces before our eyes and he'll only have himself, the alt-right, and his daughter to blame...
The all-meat diet, a pinnacle of self help advice!
"telling you to be grateful that you live in the modern age and that we should look back to biblical times to remind ourselves not only how good we have it, but also how 'evil' we've become"
Idk anything about the guy but this doesnt seem like a bad thing? We do have it amazingly well especially in the first world, and it's easy to take it for granted. Not to mention how accessible evil is, whether it's Greed, lust, laziness, self worship, etc
But thats my philosophy that I've made on my own after experiencing the poorest of poor people in China, and how happy they still are, then returning to my home country and seeing how good we have it yet take it all for granted.
It's toxic positivity and Tragedy Olympics.
Just because someone else might have lived a worse life doesn't undermine one's own problems and traumas.
Having indoor plumbing is great, but it doesn't fix inequalities or lack of access to affordable housing or healthcare for a lot of people.
There is a point to it but theres a difference between attempting to make adjustments towards a better more positive life and being told how to live by some guru that allows you to reinforce your positive decisions by choosing them.
He said he hates the diet, never advised someone to get on it
You obviously aren't listening. Try again....like a full lecture not an edited bit.
Well, everyone else should. They personally should obviously be spared such a fate so they can dedicate time to sharing their valuable insights with others.
Philosophy books usually will condense one entire self help book to 5 pages and will also extrapolate on it's implications on reality and society and then introduce a completely new topic after that.
They are very tiring to read.
As opposed to fiction books that also take 200-400 pages to talk about nonsense. All you need is 15 pages at most to get the main idea across. But yet I and everyone still loves them. Maybe they do it because we do need to constantly be reminded and need to constantly be told about different issues.
We are also drawn to and resonate with narratives far better than just information. Telling someone that Jane died is nothing compared to a book about Jane's feelings and aspirations, her loves and accomplishments and tribulations and eventual death.
Fiction can also make us feel and understand philosophy. Certainly not all works of fiction accomplish much, but some are incredible learning tools and stick with us our whole lives, changing the way we see ourselves and others and the world.
I never said that I donāt agree with you. I just said that technically you could do the same with fiction and shorten it and still get the main point across.
A eulogy has all of that in a small pamphlet. We could shorten a book to like 15 pages, hell if you wanted a bit more, 50 pages, to talk about all that. 250+ pages arenāt needed, but they certainly help make things interesting or digress about other topics.
I just hate it how sometimes this sub is so anti anything that isnāt fiction. I get that the large majority here donāt read Math, Science, Psychology, and Philosophy books, but why strongly criticize them and not strongly criticize fiction books.
Itās really only Biographies or Fiction that this sub enjoys but talk about In depth books in the nonfiction realm and they just get heavily criticized when they donāt apply the same logic to other books.
Now, self helps books arenāt books that I read, but they still have their place for some people, just like non fiction has a big place in mine, and fiction in others. I donāt understand why old males read nothing but WW2 or American History stuff, but Iām not going to disparage those books and say, you can just do a small study guide. Iāll let them read it if they like.
Same thing for those that donāt read the classics. I rarely read books that arenāt great works of literature, but I donāt disparage those that donāt belong on the list or talk about how they are dumb, etc.
Yeah I think I agree with you. I just wanted to include how much narrative can help get points across to some of us. Certainly it can often be achieved more expeditiously - some of the most moving things I've read have been short stories or poems. And eulogies and other speeches are a great example, you're right.
I can't speak much to the tenor of the sub, as I don't spend time here and am just popping in from /r/all.
Pseudo philosophy would be a better term.
best definition i've seen: self-help books are fiction with you as the hero.
sadly, i don't remember and can't credit whoever said this.
So all the self-help people doing talk shows and tours are just stand-up philosophers?
Pretty much, just at a very shallow level
Or any substance. Or any serious critique of what they're selling. Or any peer review.
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The metaphysics of stoicism is complete garbage though.
philosophy books are basically self-help books without the helpful real-life examples
Not really. Works on ethics could be viewed that way but that is only a part of philosophy.
Aka philosophy books
Most of modern science and thought can be traced back to philosophy books...
Can you give me concrete useful examples?
even so, i dont think it is the best use of their time for those guys building AI, quantum whatever to read plato.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science literally all of science is underpinned by philosophical principles that themselves cannot be proven with science. Pick basically any developed field and you can trace it back to philosophical underpinnings. Maybe Plato isn't relevant if your primary interest is advancing GPT-3 to GPT-4 but you'd be an idiot not to read Plato if you were interested in other topics that he impacted like political philosophy. You're also shitting on the teacher of Aristotle and student of Socrates... Hopefully I don't need to explain the importance of that entire school of thought on shaping the western world...?
exactly, i dont need to read plato (a random example) to do some AI stuffs (a random example). sure you can read plato to understand things like political philosophy whatever but i dont think it is relevant for science anymore, even (!) if it can be traced back to these philosophical principles.
you cant prove something by science? lets make a better science.
Philosophy of science is incredibly applicable to science as it stands today and it's frankly astonishing how little it's talked about. I would consider it the equivalent to learning history via rote memorization vs actually learning about historical methods (like redaction criticism, literary dating methods, paleography, etc.).
... which is largely a philosophical endeavor. One that, if you're interested in embarking on, is going to be filled with understanding the history of philosophy and philosophy of science. Even if you're only picking up "modern" works like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_Method, you're likely to find loads of unfamiliar philosophical positions and terms in there. And when you go about learning those so that you can understand the modern landscape, you likely would have read the likes of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, etc.
You forgot the catchy name.
No one will ever read "A balanced approach to prioritizing your life"
My theory is that whenever you have to add a curse word to your title, your book is not that good.
I know it sounds very generalizing, but I am yet to find an exception.
I completely understand those kinds of generalizations. For instance, I don't trust any financial services company with an X in their name.
You've learned not to give a fuck about books with "fuck" in the title. And I happen to agree, it's a cheap sales tactic.
"First Place"
Everyone and their mom seems to like Atomic Habits. I was mad by the time I finished it, but you have to give it to the guy - he definitely applied his method to that book. With lots of small words, and repeating yourself saying the same thing in different ways over and over, he built up to a larger goal of a 100+ pg book. You win this round, James (or whatever his name is).
It becomes really, really clear early in that book that every chapter was just one little highlightable nugget wrapped in 7-8 pages of repetitive, loosely related stories and rephrasings. I got to the point where I could pretty much scan the chapter, find the nugget, and move on haha.
Exactly the same strategy as padding high school essays.
I don't read self-help if I can help it, but this sounds exactly like something someone compelled me to read 30 years ago.
But isnāt that every book? You really think that a fiction book needs the 250+ pages to talk about a central idea. Could literally just write it in 15 pages. I donāt need the nonsense of describing a room or how a character does a specific motion.
All books then should just be 50 pages at most.
Of course not. There's a difference between "Mr. Jones shuffled down the hallway and pushed open the creaky wooden door with a weary sigh. Feeling the cool tile of the kitchen floor on his feet, his arms gravitated toward the coffee maker..." and the Atomic Habits version, of "Mr. Jones opened the kitchen door. The kitchen door opened. As you'll recall from Chapter 5, almost all doors have hinges. This door had hinges so it opened. It opened, since he had pushed on it. Had he not pushed on it, he would have been practicing the inverse of opening the door, which would be keeping it closed.
Chapter 14: The Kitchen"
That isnāt the main idea/takeawayā¦ unless itās about the coffee maker, which is my point.
Also, let me clarify it a bit more. I think that both do need to be a bit long, though for different purposes.
While a books main idea can be, making it longer does help for other reasons.
I think that you point fingers at those self help book without realizing why they are probably that long. I also donāt believe that you have thought about why a fiction book has all that writing.
I think that both are necessary, most of the time. Though there are exceptions.
My example was to say, if you're going to make it long you should make it interesting and worth the reader's time. The actual quality of my writing in that example aside, at least every phrase was saying a different thing and attempting to be palatable.
I like long, descriptive passages in fiction. I'm okay if the author takes a few pages to get the character "into the kitchen," as long as the writing is good and serves the story.
I'm not very well-read with self-help stuff so can only really speak on Atomic Habits, but if the constant repetition was intended to drive the point home and the tangential stories were to flesh out the points with some context... I think it failed on me. I could see how for some people it might turn the chapter into a sort of meditation session though.
No, listen I love fiction, and hell, I read the whole good damn Les Mes unabridged book, which I loved. I practically reread the Count of Monte Cristo every 1.5 years. I, too, love great writing, but just like the authors needs to describe all these events/places for the reader, itās the same for the repetition of self help books. The reader canāt possibly imagine a hunted house with such great detail. They can, but laziness and lack of using creativity makes it challenging for them, so the author knows that they have to add detail, which can be long paragraphs or pages.
And just like you said, self help books have that constant repetition because to some they need it drilled into their heads. They need to remember what to do. Itās not so much about driving the point home, itās about driving it to their brain so that they can actually remember and keep it in mind subconsciously to help them.
I donāt read self help books, as I prefer to actually read the rather dry and tedious psychology journals/articles, textbooks, or nonfiction books that are written by people in the Math, Science, Psychology, Philosophy field that do have evidence and work on these things, not by some sports person or random person who try to put in anecdotal experiences and think that it will work for all, but I still think they have their place for those that actually donāt want to read the dry and long texted info or who want to practice those self help things. And they need to be told that across the whole book so that they do end up getting those concepts in their head to practice them and feel the need to do something about it. Also, as someone who reads textbooks and highlights a good amount, it can be hard to remember things from a couple of chapters ago. But textbooks at least have practice problems to build that repetition in, a self help book Iām guessing assumes that some wonāt remember it if they havenāt applied it, so that is why they will reference it again.
I might have came across as too standoffish, but sometimes this sub loves to shit ok books that are not fiction, but they donāt apply the same criticisms to what they read.
Some need to be told about a place, yet some can easily picture that place with great detail, but it is still needed. The same goes for other books. Some need to be constantly reminded about an idea, while others can easily remember it.
You're not standoffish you're fine lol. I understand what you're saying and appreciate you typing it out.
Thatās like saying that a fancy restaurant could just give you a menu instead of serving you a meal. Or that instead of taking a vacation you could just look at the brochure. A novel, a vacation, and a restaurant meal are all experiential.
No, thatās not what I am sayingā¦
I am saying that instead of being told about the color of all the vegetables, color of chicken, temperature of every item on the dish, how cooked every item is, describing how the plate looks, etc, they can just have a menu with the name of the dish and what ingredients are usedā¦
Your examples are not correct.
Of course it isnāt what you were saying. I was stating a different point of view. I can only guess that we read very differently, which isnāt a bad thing. I would prefer the sensory description that would let me feel that I was there.
Atomic Habits is quite good in my opinion and has real techniques that can be put in to practice, and it seems well respected among many highly educated people.
The sad fact is that most people will read a book and then be too lazy or unmotivated to actually do any of the techniques, and then they will blame the author for not writing a better book when their life is still miserable.
Hey, you're certainly allowed to enjoy it! My argument isnt that Mr. Clear's book has bad ideas. Quite the opposite - ive heard this kind of advice given outside of his book - I expect there is preexisting psych/counseling advice similar to his, and think "break down workload/goals into smaller, less overwhelming chunks" is a useful concept. What im saying is that it could have and should have been the length of a short article. I'm pretty sure the book even has a summary itself - that is all that needed to be published, alongside maybe some scientific studies (that would have been cool). 90% of that book wasn't worth the time reading it to me, because it wasn't saying anything substantive or that it hadn't already said before, in a more concise way.
I do think your summary is pretty oversimplified, and he in fact did publish all his ideas first as articles on his website. Books typically get a much wider and more general audience, which I'm sure was part of the intention of consolidating it. Maybe it was slightly too wordy, but certainly not the worst culprit (it's only like 200 pages), and the fact is that the general public simply won't pick up a book with less than 100 pages, so I think that's a big part of the blame.
Hey, fair. While I think maybe 3 pages would suffice (too stingy?), I understand if one sentence feels like it leaves some things out, and it's been years now since I read it. I'd love to hear your elevator pitch for the book, if you felt my distillation of the main point was lacking or gets in the way of others getting something valuable out of it!
I agree with you! I also assume the book was the length it was in order to reach a wider audience. That doesnt excuse or improve the quality of the writing, in my opinion, which is the thing I take issue with. I am often needlessly wordy myself, so maybe that's why I have a special loathing for it in others' writing - I know the peoblem intimately.
The advice in it is fine and good and could be easily condensed into a not-very-long article.
His name is Seth. Aka. self help Seth.
For a second, I thought that was actually his name, and I was impressed at how far off I was. He should change his name to seth just so he can take that moniker, because he does seem, to me, to be one of the faces/names of the self help genre.
More specifically, my experience with self help booksā¦
First third of the book talking about the specific problem and side effects and issues of the problem. Next third āreal lifeā examples of people with the problem and how it affected them. Then one chapter on how to fix the problem. Then the last third āreal lifeā examples of people using this fix to fix their problem so easily and simply and their rags to riches stories with that simple fix that you too could easily do!
In this decade you missed one thing.
Need A LOT of needless swearing.
There was one I read that's first chapter was literally "Fuck You." (Maybe it was this book, idk they all sound the same to me).
Makes me feel like the book is written by a 15 year old drill sargent with a publisher.
I swear a lot in person (blue collar profession itās just the culture) but itās always so jarring to read it in professional books. I donāt really understand why.
I feel like curse words should be acceptable professional language when used in safety warnings. "Drinking this will fuck your shit up!" "Danger! Do not drop this motherfucker or it will explode!"
Was that book "Savages"?
Chris Hardwick had a neat spin on the idea if you're a nerd/gamer/loner. It's setting small goals for yourself but as if you're playing an RPG. Your goals and side quests have XP, your skills can level up, you make your own stats.
All good advice is obvious. The most that any self-help book can offer you is an excuse to start doing what you obviously know you should have been doing all along.
Eh, idk, the stuff in self help books should be obvious, but think about how unhealthy and fucked up people are
This seems unbelievably untrue.
na there's plenty of good ones.
Unfortunately, there's only a handful that I have actually benefited from, and it's really hard to sift through all the BS sometimes, so now I just avoid the whole genre.
If you have any good recs, let me know. The only two I feel comfortable with are:
I like Harriet Lerner, Terry Real, John Gottman, Brene Brown, Esther Perel and Ryan Holiday though I've only read one of his but I liked it.
Oh also, Mans Search for meaning and Way of the superior Man
Also not pure self help but still good stuff about people is Robert Sopolsky
And anything from The School of Life and Alain De Botton . They have great youtube videos as well as books, they are all excellent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EvvPZFdjyk
Running on Empty Jonice webb
Wired for Love Stan Tatkin
checkout Nonviolent Communication. excellent book imo.
I actually have, does that count as "self help"? If so, there's hope yet for the genre.
I'd say it counts as self help, it's about improving yourself
I have to disagree ... plenty of self help/self growth books are much more than this and go into depth on certain topics/subjects. i.e. tony robbins awaken the giant or jeff olson the slight edge or napolean hill think and grow rich
I mean it's the same with the web articles, I type in "how to tell if avocado over ripe" and all the links be like. "It was a calm summer morning, as i was drinking my coffee I thought 'hey I'm hungry'. So I went to go look for something to eat..."
Like bro I just need like at max 4 sentences to answer this question.
A four sentence article will never show up the the Google results, that's an SEO problem.
It's the dragging out that makes them work, The same point made from many angles, eventually replacing your associations of the topic with the authors. Just felt like throwing this in here š
I think people that hold this opinion are either a) reading the wrong books, or b) don't really have enough problems to need self help books.
I have read a LOT of parenting/ special needs books and have learned a tremendous amount.
It's almost like self help books are a moneymaking scam
Here's how to write a self-help book- Make a bullet point list of like 8 or 10 points related to your idea. Each one of those is a chapter. Then, come up with a bunch of fake anecdotes, misinterpreted studies, and off-topic tangents to fill the chapters. Done.
And that idea was taken from an ancient philosopher. Mark Manson is essentially copying what the stoics wrote.
It's not really a self-help book per se but "The Game" by Neil Strauss tells a larger story about how fucking a bunch of strangers is actually not that great and how the "pickup" community was led by a bunch of insecure weirdos who think they've got it all figured out.
You first need to love yourself (like RuPaul says, "If you don't love yourself, how in the hell are you gonna love someone else?") in order to find a partner, commit to a serious relationship, and start a family (which most people eventually figure out are much more rewarding than banging a bunch of strangers).
It was actually a really good book, I highly recommend it.
Not really.
Felt the same way about Deep Work. The name of the book was all there was.
Alan Watts is delightful and succinct.
Finance books too. I read the millionaire next door, it was just a bunch of stories about not spending money.
I truly don't understand how "self-help" books are consistently best sellers. Obviously most people are insecure, and would like to "better" themselves, but do they really think that a new book is going to do that for them?
They give people easy answers. The core concepts though not groundbreaking most of the time, are valid sometimes. Just a long way to get there.
sometimes it's worth it, though.
i've read atomic habits and while you could sum it up in few sentences, the additional explanations really make up for it - because they inspire you.
Sir we just want to complain here
Literally.
I like reading some but they often aren't well written, drag as you say and it's much better use of my time to spend 10 min watching a productivity YouTube video then reading a book every night for 6 weeks about the same thing...
Welcome to the world of popular self-help. An audience that tends to conflate reading for a long time with reading a ton of content.
I find these books follow a template.
Chapter one: convince the audience I am educated, or cheeky, rich, swear when you expect me to be professional, etc., but for some reason I the writer am credible.
Chapter 2,3,4: Idea one. 4,5,6 ideas two ā¦ etc., with each idea supported by anecdotal stories and often lacking any measurable variable or what is measured is suspect.
I spent a too much time before university reading self-help books thinking theyād solve what was going on in my life. In the end I often wasted $20.00, and a few hours on someoneās long-winded PR monologue from some narcissist.
I remember that damn Mel Robbins book about the five minute rule that took me a week too finish reading and it said the same thing every YouTube clip on it said.
Is
Itās worse because itās gratingly repetitive
Genuinely the only self-help book I've benefited from is the Barefoot Investor.
And thats because it's more of an intro to financial literacy and step by step sorting out finances than a load of drivel.
Yeah but this guy had the audacity to say it's not a self-help book, and he has a swear in the title so he must be trying to be cool let's gang up on this one book an author all the time for some reason so we look even cooler and smarter.
Which I love how the first part of the book just talks about how it's not a self help book. I quit reading after the 'don't waste your energy/fucks'
Theres three id say are worth a full read through.
1.How to make friends and influence people, 2. no more mister nice guy, 3. The disorganized mind (if you have adhd)
Omg is that Secret? ;)
Well to be fair the point is to guide you through a story so the concepts stick better although there is some self help books that drag on
don't forget trivialization of your problems till you feel like shit for not figuring it out sooner
Iāve read some amazing self help books, totally acknowledge that theyāre few and far between but these books legitimately changed my life:
Atomic Habits Big Magic Start
Sometimes you need small ideas dragged out to 200+ pages before it sinks in.
Source: an avid consumer of self-help books
i really enjoyed āa new earth.ā it seems to really dig into using words as tools, reiterating examples on how these tools are used when experiencing life. like, sharing experiences and then saying how those experiences relate to the topic at hand. really basic stuff. but seems to have a solid effect.
except atomic habits I would say, that book actually changed my life
I am writing a self help book, very exhausting amd after writing about one third, seems like it will be very boring as well...
Sounds like you need a self help book for writing self help books
That's why I am just scrapping this thread
I have yet to find a single self help book that starts with "I read a self help book".
This was the Power of Now for me. Basically ābe present in the moment,ā turned into an unnecessarily long drone.
This is exactly why i subscribe to Shortform.