Not sure how effective those rocket shots are, but damn...they look beautiful doing it.
Not sure how effective those rocket shots are, but damn...they look beautiful doing it.
It has to be somewhat effective, both sides have been doing it for quite a while now, they'd have stopped already if it was pointless
It's not pointless, just ineffective. Neither side has enough guided missiles to spare and the contested airspace and manpads don't allow helos and fighters to cherry pick targets like Americans in Afghanistan. Best you can do is yeet some rockets and adjust until it lands roughly on the grid square you wanted in.
It's not pointless, just ineffective.
Same like using 122mm Grad single tube launcher. It hits something, sure, but does it even hit its target? Depends how you define the target.
Depends how you define the target
Vaguely gestures at the horizon
I think the point of it is to scare enemies away from entering parts of the grid.
So these are dumb rockets?
By definition, rockets are dumb - missiles are smart.
Yes
Um . . .
Thank you for your brilliant contribution to the Reddit community. Here’s a null award for your trouble.
I’ll have None of this
Doesnt even look like they are lobbing them.
To continue the helicopter lob shot trend I need to see these jets slow to a stall, nose up and boop some unguided munitions to the horizon.
More psychological than anything. Where it lands? As long as it is in enemy territory.
Not great for Ukraine , when enemy territory also includes your own civilians.
They probably shoot where there are no civilians, like field trenches
For an air force that apparently has had 300% of its inventory shot down it has been very active on the front the last few weeks. There have been many videos of Su-25s, Hinds and MIG29s on patrol and active on the front line. And a vid the other day of a Ukrainian SU-27 shooting down a russian missile targeted at a civilian area.
The Czech Republic basically gave Ukraine their whole Air Force.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that many other countries have quietly donated planes to Ukraine as well.
Bulgaria almost definitely gave them their 14 SU-25.
[deleted]
Do planes come with pilots these days?
Ukraine has plenty of pilots. They never had many planes to begin with so the ammount of pilots they have always outweighed the planes. Also Russia destroyed a lot of Ukraine's Military planes in the first day of the war while they sat on the tarmac, leaving even more pilots without planes.
Ukraine also has thousands of soldiers being trained outside the country right now. I don't know how long it takes to train a pilot but I assume they have more pilots in training as well.
2 years minimum for competent training. 6 months if you want them to fly and then get shot down.
Top Gun: Maverick actors only needed a month long training and they shot down a lot of enemy planes in the movie.
[deleted]
'Use the force Tom"
“Don’t think just do!”
The natops flight manual lol. No real pilot or mechanic such as myself would do that. That shit is the Bible. And by looking at the ribbons and ranks of the guys in the movie they wouldn’t be boots. These guys had combat deployments and other shit under their belt. These guys would have been the cream of the crop from their respective units to be sent to top gun
Weren’t they already talented pilots that were just training for that specific mission?
Yes I think they were already in Top Gun, or at least selected for it because they were the best
They were already top gun graduates
The actors learned to fly F-18s.
They learned to ride in the backseat
You are correct !
They also had the writers on their side. Ukraine could only wish for that.
Just give them plot armor. It's the best!
Great documentary that one.
I dont recall that many enemy planes being shot down in that movie.
Considering how effective the Russian Air Force has been I wouldn't even doubt it tbh
based
They never had many planes to begin with so the ammount of pilots they have always outweighed the planes.
Isn't this every airforce except Russia?
IIRC Russia is indeed close to 1.5:1, but afaik almost every other airforce had 2.5-3 pilots per plane.
Pilots have to sleep and planes don't. You can run sorties 24/7 if your country depends on it when you have 3 pilots per plane.
This is also part of why people often incorrectly guess/calculate the cost to maintain each plane in a country's airforce. They assume it's 200 hours per plane per year since the pilot does 200 hours. But in reality you have 2.5 pilots per plane so 500 hours per year. Lots of maintenance.
The us spends about 70k per flight hour for a f22. I wonder how much it costs to maintain an su-25
Russian pilots only do 100 hours per year. And ... a lot of the time that's probably on paper and not actually flown.
So probably around $300,000-$750,000 per year instead of hour as I'm guessing it's $3000-$5000 per hour.
Also Russia destroyed a lot of Ukraine's Military planes in the first day of the war while they sat on the tarmac, leaving even more pilots without planes.
Given how we know it was coming the whole time it seems really sloppy to lose your planes on the ground to an attack that's imminent.
To be fair, everyone in the world was claiming Russia wouldn't do it, and even those who thought they would never thought they would attack so far into Ukraine.
Everyone basically underestimated Putin's idiocy. He was willing to turn nearly the whole world against him just to invade a country with no real value to Russia.
Ukraine was getting US intel and Biden made it clear that Russia was going to attack so they knew it was coming. Even if there was only a high chance it was coming the planes should've been in western airbases at high alert and ready to scramble.
Western bases would require the planes to be de-armed so it would leave the depots vulnerable. Although I guess you leave a skeleton crew of armed fighters there. It’s easy in hindsight
I meant airbases in western Ukraine, so they would have time to scramble upon attack.
It's easy in hindsight.
Where is a time machine when you need one eh?
And this is exactly what happened. I don't know if you have the memory of a fly, but there were massive missile attacks on the first day of invasion. All major airports were struck by Russians. If Ukraine hadn't scrambled majority of their combat ready aircraft, they wouldn't have an airforce now.
I haven't seen any proof of significant Ukrainian loses while on the ground. I know they struck some mothballed mig29s that were all parked together but even they seemed largely salvageable
They did lose some assets but not as much as everyone initially believed or publicized.
I don't know how long it takes to train a pilot but I assume they have more pilots in training as well.
Years. It’s a process you can’t really rush. But there may be some pilots that were pilots of other aircraft such as commercial airplanes that could be converted to fighter pilots sooner.
“…to train pilots to fly NATO aircraft.” I think that’s what you meant.
Well... just helicopters, but it might be most of our stock. Slovakia are the ones who gave them all their MIGs..... not sure if they arrived yet.
From a strategic standpoint it makes sense: the whole purpose of the military equipment possessed by NATO members in Europe (with the exception of maybe Britain and France, the only others capable of exercising power projection outside the continent - Germany could if it wanted to, but, perhaps thankfully, German militarism has been stomped into the dust) is to fight Russia. If that materiel is being shipped to Ukraine for them to use, what difference does it make for a Russia vs. NATO war? The whole point of that equipment was to bomb the Russians anyway.
It's basically just suppressing fire. If you keep shooting missiles in the sky they won't send as many plains out openly.
Thus accounting for it being liquidated in its entirety 300%, never mind the planes still flying...👍
Do you have a link for that last one?
The vid is in a couple of the ukrainian subs as well.
Sadly the video doesn't even show the direct hit. Are there other videos/images? Perhaps photos of the debris from the rocket?
We aren’t aware of everything Ukraine is getting. And we don’t need to be.
Can't wait until this is all over and we get real hard stats and facts about all the donated stuff. It's definitely going to be some mind bending amount that no one ever expected.
Im just shocked Russians dont have full air control its crazy.
It's unreal, like Invasion 101 stuff. I just assumed they would and then Kyiv would have fallen in the opening days or weeks. But no. Did they not study invasions of the last 70 years?
The majority of the US military believed the same.
Because OBVIOUSLY you would establish air superiority. Who wouldn't when you are able to? Russia apparently lmao.
Russian army is the bottom of their genetic pool. What do you expect?
Seems Ukraine had alot more anti air then people thought.
Russians are simply weak at air warfare.
Can't wait until the maniacs are done training on the F-15
104-0 is about to become 1040-0
I’m not a mathematician nor am I an expert in war, but how do you have 300% of your aircraft shot down without being -200% aircraft?
It's a joke: basically, Russia has claimed to have downed more UAF jets than the UAF has, yet the UAF still has plenty of jets.
Theyre just flying on negative planes.
They haven't actually lost 300%.
But to lose 300% here is an example:
You have 1 plane.
It gets shot down.
Replace with second plane.
It gets shot down.
Replace with third plane.
It gets shot down.
3 is 300% of the original 1 you had.
They get more.
Because you start with 100%. Then you gain an extra 200%.
But lose all 300%.
See my reply above (or it may end up below but I did a followup). And of course your question is in fact a good one!
I had no idea Ukrainian AF losses were that high! how are they dealing with what has to be crazy high pilot losses?
Hi. I was being facetious, which I am seeing has gone over the heads of a few.
Russia has made wild claims in respect of destruction of some Ukrainian military assets among which the most incredulous have to do with losses in the Ukrainian Air Force. I picked 300% out of a hat as I felt safe that in fact russia has claimed even higher then that over time were we to start adding it all up.
Its even a running joke in some of the intercepts - russian soldiers are calling their own claims by their officers bullshit.
In reality Ukraine has sustained some losses, and also lost some good pilots. Fortunately their pilots also had the benefit of a great deal of training in the west, with the California National Guard and others and it has helped them in tactics and making the most of the assets they had at the outset of the war.
Since then they have been given inventory from NATO allies who also flew former soviet model planes, and in some cases had upgraded those assets considerably, such as Czech had done with its MIG 29s.
Thanks for the explanation, you’re right, it went over my head faster than these planes haha.
I upvoted you to counter the negative votes. I realized you did not get it and your not the only one. It appeared to me you asked your question honestly so I thought you did not deserve to rot in the dungeons of Reddit hell for such honesty even if just a touch naive... 😁
Russian claims of Ukrainian losses have been a running joke since the start of the war and I figured pretty much everyone was aware of that.
Appreciate it! Lol but don’t worry, I try not to let fake internet points affect me too badly😂 yeah the outcome of this war so far has honestly surprised me, I kind of figured Ukraine would get steamrolled in the first few weeks tbh. But what has surprised me even more is the continued fight despite the total easily disproved misinformation to their own forces as well as the discontinued support by almost every major corporation that previously served Russia.
I am Canadian. We have had forces in Ukraine since 2015 and had trained some 35K Ukrainians to NATO standards, and the British and United States had trained more beyond that. So it was not a surprise to us.
I gotcha! after another person gave some clarification, I understand your sarcasm. I appreciate the update. It's much more I inline with what I thought was going on. Thanks!
Small correction, Czech republic did not have MIG 29s, they are on Gripens for some time now, it was Slovakia and their MIGs
The point is that the Russians are saying the losses are that high, not that they are actually that high.
Oh. I see! Thanks for the clarification. Not sure why you've been downvoted.
Just because an air frame is lost, it doesn't mean the pilot is. Attrition is a significant factor here.
During the Battle of Britain every Luftwaffe plane that was shot down was likely to be a total loss of both aircraft and personnel as far as Germany were concerned. They ditch over Britain or in the Channel and they're going to be picked up by Britain and captured.
The British, in defense, are flying over their own controlled territory. When they get downed and bail out they just find their way back to their airfield and hop in another Hurricane and be on their way the next sortie.
This is the case in the UA war as well.
makes perfect sense! thanks for the insight.
Didn't they say they have no jets left? Gosh
[deleted]
It’s the only narrative they can believe in that explains how shit they’re doing
To be fair it must be traumatising to confront the reality that your air force is garbage after decades of being told it was the second best in the world. No wonder they are seeking refuge in fantasy.
Yea the factually correct narrative lol.
if NATO was actually fighting Russia the war would be over by now. We'd all be posting memes about Putin's ongoing war crimes trial.
Buddy, the day NATO pushes the funny Article 5 Button we will see Putin hanging by his ballsack in the red square within a week.
You're delusional if you think it'd ever reach that point. We'd all be turned into radioactive ash before that ever happens
The world could use a depop .lets do it.
Fallout fans when they see a huge bright light on the horizon 😲
Ah yes, how could we all forget that the SU-25 is the premier aircraft enforcing NATO’s air supremacy doctrine.
Russia is not fighting NATO, even if Ukraine is getting NATO supplies. Its a big difference
This a dangerous proxy war provoked by the West. I don't care about technicalities.
Remind me who funded and supplied the DPR terrorist proxies that initially began the conflict?
The West has nothing to gain from provoking or starting a war with a dictator-run country who controls 2000 nukes. Russia are professional victims and will claim to be the victim while literally genociding their neighbors for imperialism.
Oh we got another Russian troll
Or a tankie who's all in favour of Russian tanks crushing Eastern European countries until the Russians start losing and then its the big bad West's fault for "provoking" them into a disastrous war.
Based off his profile, yes.
Proxy these nuts in your mouth
I don’t recall the west ever putting a single soldier on Russian soil, yet there are thousands of Russian soldiers killing and murdering in a neighboring countries sovereign territory. You might want to go see a head doctor.
You didn’t mention the Ukrainian separatists being killed by right wingers. We don’t need that historical context, that might hurt brain too much. Totally preventable war.
Keep telling yoursef that.
Russia could have stayed home and let people live out their lives in peace. But that's asking too much.
If NATO was fighting it would be over. NATO doesn't fly SU-25's. It flies F18's, F22's, and F35's. None of which have been seen over Ukraine.
What do you call it when Country A sends planes to Ukraine that the pilots are already trained on and then NATO countries give Country A newer planes and trains A's pilots on those platforms, and NATO countries training Ukrainians outside of the conflict zone? Sounds like NATO fighting using non-NATO bodies.
Isn't that exactly what happened in the Vietnam War where the Soviet Union supplied and trained the North Vietnamese Air Force?
However nobody says the Soviet Union itself was fighting in Vietnam.
There's a distinction between training and supplying an ally and committing your own forces. If NATO was actually fighting in Ukraine this war would have been over in a week or two.
Yeah well you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
So if I understand you correctly, NATO is not fighting this war but NATO is? I guess you are right that NATO is not is fighting is not this war /confused
Ahh so you do understand.
No. Because NATO isn’t fighting. They’re vaguely supplying and training, and that’s enough to kick Russia in the balls repeatedly.
Fucking 3 measly himars systems are destroying officer after officer, ammo dump after ammo dump. And the stupid Russians can’t find them. The US alone has over 100 of those systems. No if nato was fighting it would be long over. Just keep huffing that copium.
The US alone has over 100 of those systems.
The US has 375 HIMARs launchers and 990 tracked M270 launchers that fire the same missiles.
There are also about 300 more M270s deployed by other NATO countries.
I thought that was the ordered number but just over 100 we’re delivered
Those are the numbers in service as of today - except of course the US has given 8 of its 375 HIMARS to Ukraine.
Okay then that's cool as long we only send them just enough "aid" to stretch this whole thing out til next quarter; I dumped my Pfizer earnings into Lockheed so I'm reeeeally hoping Russia steps their aa game up again sorry not sorry.
Ah. Should've known you're the r/wallstreetbets kind of scum.
Its not reeeeeally betting if you know the outcome. Trust your overlords and follow their market moves. I hope you got into computer chip stocks yesterday like good ole Mr Pelosi did
Again, the only thing missing is NATO personnel pulling triggers and sitting in cockpits. If there was no NATO there would be American servicemen, in uniform conducting war.
NATO has supplied Ukraine with a tiny fraction of its material resources and commmitted none of its personnel to combat.
I suspect you don't have the slightest conception of just how overwhelmingly superior NATO forces are to Russian. An actual NATO/Russia conflict where NATO used its full resources would be a slaughter. The Russian airforce and air defences would be gone in a day or two and then the Russian army would be destroyed from the air.
You suspected wrong; I extensively researched the f-15 eagle for a middle school science fair and actually got a ribbon for that one. Your attack was ineffective.
You seem lost, r/NonCredibleDefense is that way. Right past after the anthropomorphic F-18 porn.
Lmao thanks dude top notch sub i think i found my home
So 2 years ago you read a wiki article on an ancient plane that would still wreck shit. 👍 What does your book report tell you about the 0 Su-57's in service right now?
Is it a bird? Is a plane? Is it an f-15? Nope that was my comment going over your head. I guess i forgot /s…md
You’re forgetting literally the entire arsenal of NATO in addition to nato soldiers operating it. Modern nato equipment is literally a half a century ahead of the bullshit Russia and Ukraine are using. 5th gen stealth fighters would cause absolute havoc in the skies and air dominance would be established in days if not hours. Expeets have estimated it would take 6-8 f22’s to establish air dominance over Ukraine in 48 hours. The US has 186 of them. Add the f-35 to the mix and it can literally destroy air defenses from beyond the horizon with the radar signature of a bumble bee at 30,000 feet. And that’s before the army is even on the ground. And that’s just the US. It wouldn’t even be a fight, it would be a massacre.
Hey man, all I care about is that the stock price in Lockheed goes up.
well, that's a stretch.
that's like saying that for the last 8 years DPR/LPR forces have been a good representation of Russia's might.
in reality, Ukraine is using only a little fraction of what NATO is capable of.
Just enough to keep this quarter looking profitable.
good for them
You can get wealthy off this war too.
Edit: It's the American way!
Edit2: Or did you donate your bitcoin to zelensky like a good boy?
nah, as ukrainian, i'm good as long as Russia isn't getting wealthier by succeeding in Ukraine.
i can only congratulate America
Specifically congratulate one American. He is the son of a (somehow) high ranking US politician who (somehow) was on the board of a Ukrainian energy company whist being the wildest crackheaded, lady of the night acquiring, dead brother's wife banger ever recorded on a forgot about laptop and icloud backup account. Congratulate him, and also thank both the US and Ukrainian oligarchs for this war.
you sound desperately jealous.
honestly, i can't take your charade serious when Russia and it's oligarchs had been involved in UA politics for way longer and in the way higher capacity.
yet apparently it's impossible for RU to be responsible for anything.
Jealous of who or what? And no, do not take anything I say seriously, nothing I say online is true or a reflection on my actual beliefs.
Jealous of who or what?
Jealous of Hunter Biden, obviously. You went into great detail on his personal life.
nothing I say online is true or a reflection on my actual beliefs
good for you
detail
You want the details?
Tom Cruise is flying Sukhois now.
IF NATO was fighting Russia then there wouldn't be a single Russian aircraft in the skies by now.
Funny I believe you, but apparently the Russians said the same thing about Ukraines air force lol
True but we have the advantage of making the prediction five months later after having seen just how dreadful the Russian air force is.
I get the reverse logic, but if russia is struggling with ukraine's tiny air force of mig29s and su25s. They'd definitely be destroyed by an added influx of highly trained Typhoons, f16s, f18s, f35s, among others.
But war is unpredictable sometimes, I'll give you that.
It's not that far from the truth honestly. Imagine you were a Russian soldier in Ukraine right now... You'd definitely feel like it's the case.
We see NATO as an official defensive alliance while they see it as any and all countries even slightly opposing them.
I don't think you need to be article 5'd to claim you're fighting NATO.
Can't wait for the Tsars to be blamed eventually
They say they are russian jets
Well they probably didn't have much left at the start but what is damaged can sometimes be repaired and with the influx of parts from ex-eastern bloc countries we will see more and more UA aircraft in the sky
I live in Kyiv oblast, and I see jets and helicopters almost daily
End this war please.
Well, we are on it
The fact that the Ukrainians are still flying combat missions this far into the war should be a massive oof for Russian AA sales.
Indeed. I recall being assured by Russian bots at the start of the war that once Russia had its S-400 launchers in place nothing could take off within 400km without being blown out of the sky.
Those were just feint S-400s, just wait until the real S-400s are deployed
/s
Bruh those are just the training units, they don't have real missiles or radar. Just wait until the combat units arrive.
5 months is hell of a traffic jam!
It's all a feint
The Russians have actually already taken the moon which was the real objective
Right?
It’s honestly kind of fucking embarrassing that a country like Russia goes to war with a much smaller neighbor and 5 months later, that other country still has an air force.
I think people overestimate russia because of their raw numbers, but numbers don't mean everything, 10 cannon fodder grunts can be less effective than 1 well trained soldier with superior equipment.
Right but Russia claims to have world-class AA systems. They are claiming their AA equipment is of a superior quality. It clearly isn't
Easy to say now. Before February everyone was treating Russia as a potential world power, definitely strong enough to at least challenge NATO.
People who actually knew Russian capabilities even before February knew that Russia would get steamrolled against nato in conventional war, it is now being seen that they would get steamrolled even faster.
Nobody expected they would be steamrolled so quickly though.
Almost like Ukraine is standing alone in this fight
The point being, Russia was supposed to be the #2 military in the world.
If this had been the US, Ukraine would not still have planes in the air at this point.
Russia might be the second, but the gap between first and second is insanely big. Also if it had been US no one would ever gave them any weapons.
Russia is more like the twenty-second it seems. China could pull off a more credible invasion of Taiwan, or India of Pakistan, than this shitshow. That's even leaving France, ROK, and the other real big hitters out of the list. Poland and Germany are rearming so fast they'll laugh off the Russians in a while.
Also, a few thousand end-of-life missiles and some hundred artillery pieces isn't much in term of given weapons. Ukraine has received much, much more in humanitarian and medical aid.
Yeah we thought the same about russia but reality is almost always different. Your data about received weapons is also extremely false.
b-b-b-b-but m-mmmmmm-mm-muh S400 m-missiles
Depends. Ukie S-300PS/PT has done an excellent job of area denial though.
Russian AA is the reason they're lobbing rockets with su-25s
The Su-25 pilots are concerned about Russian manpads and other short range point defence AA, and are right to be because Russia has lots and those systems are decent and the Su-25s defences are not great, which is why they aren't attacking the targets directly but are lobbing rockets from a couple of km away.
The comment about Russian AA sales is more of a reference to very expensive Russian SAM systems like the S-400 which were supposed to give Russia the capability of killing enemy aircraft up to 400km away but don't seem to be inhibiting the ability of the UAF to fly front line support missions. Countries that have splashed out billions buying S-400s may be wondering what they spent their money on, especially as it seems that system can't protect against HIMARS missiles either.
s-400s aren't any more capable of hitting ground hugging aircraft than pantsir or buk is. that's just a basic fact of modern aa. ukraine has far better air support options available than rocket lobbing that are denied by the ability of russian long range SAM
and before you downplay the threat of soviet SAM systems, remember that those same systems are keeping russian jets at bay as well
how do you know its ukranian?
Definitely - though I suspect a bigger oof for Russian AA tactics and their wider doctrine more generally.
Yeah. All I know is there are probably a lot of defense ministries looking at their S300/400's, BUKs, and Pantsirs, and panicking a bit
I just cannot even begin to imagine walking out my door and seeing this. It's heart breaking.
Classic loft with flare drop. Simple but O so effective.
Why are they deploying chafs right after shooting the rockets?
It s flares and it s to avoid manpads to lock them or Track them.
So that must mean they're pretty close to enemy's line? Because they're expecting a counter shortly after shooting the rockets
You dont have a long range even when lofting rockets. And you usualy dont strike like this directly on the frontline but a bit behind (1-10km) to strike an objective and/or supress some units.
Air-launched dumb rockets are short range, so yes, pretty much.
Well, yeah. If you're in a plane shooting at the enemy, you're close. Its usually standard procedure to dump flares and evade immediately after you fire your payload.
They wouldn't be able to tell if something is tracking them? They just do it anyway as a precaution?
Not IR missiles. You can tell if a radar is painting you by radar warning recievers on the aircraft, but infrared targeting is totally passive, so its always done as a precaution.
It blows my mind still how much of a paper tiger the russians are.
They've been at war for months and they still haven't established air superiority over Ukraine.
Air supremacy is not won in some archaic method like the Battle of Britain from soon 100 years ago.
To gain air superiority is not a fighter vs. fighter battle anymore, but overcoming the ground based air defense systems of the enemy in addition to the fighter planes of their air force.
Hard to establish air superiority when the enemy has a large amount of air defense, which Ukraine does.
Even harder when your primary SEAD weapons are designed for combating NATO systems but you are fighting an enemy using the same air defense systems as yourself.
Russia was struggling since the start and the air defense of Ukraine has only gotten tighter as the primary supplies of weapons and materials from the west has been defensive weapon systems of various kinds, which the air defense systems were a large bulk of.
There are modern examples of heavily equipped air defense systems being defeated, evaded, and destroyed by competent air operations.
No one is saying that Ukraine doesn't have an at least mostly adequate umbrella now, but Russia had surprise, the technological edge, and the numbers to win attrition, and they're still cartoonishly underperforming in the skies over Ukraine.
Even harder when your primary SEAD weapons are designed for combating NATO systems, but you are fighting an enemy using the same air defense systems as yourself
NATO systems which are, by almost every measure except extreme range, equally as effective as Russian AA is?
It's patently ridiculous to claim that Russian SEAD would work against NATO, but is somehow failing against Ukraine.
Does this not just prove Russia creates effective AA / SAM systems?
Not at all.
They've propped up numerous AA capabilities for middle eastern countries only to see them get defeated time and time again by Israeli and NATO intruders.
Well they seem to be working against Russia. Isn’t that why they don’t have air superiority?
It's really a combination of things.
They're gear is by and large designed to counter NATO anti-air assets and defense. Like-to-like seems to be working against them.
They don't seem to know how to adequately use electronic-warfare aircraft to cover their birds from AA target acquisition. Most of their ECM craft are from the Soviet era.
Reporting also states that they used most of their stores of guided munitions crushing ISIS and anti-Assad forces in Syria. You can actually see this in videos where they're using modern multi-roll aircraft to do nothing but lob dumb munitions.
Finally, and in my opinion the most telling, is their pilot's extreme lack of actual flight time. I don't know if it's because of budget cuts or incompetence, but many of these Russian fliers have very limited experience on throttle.
You ask that on a video showing obsolete Ukrainian SU-25s lobbing short-range unguided rockets at the front 5 months into a shooting war Russia started?
They've gotta be demoralized AF.
The leadership is garbage, and the supply line corrupt at every stage.
The actual hardware I reckon is quite capable... assuming adequate supplies, training, leadership, communication, etc. Of which there is currently none in the Russian military.
Anyway, IDK how to describe it. A paper tiger with sharp teeth? The guns should be pretty dangerous!... assuming the russians ever find any bullets to fire them.
how much of Ukraines airforce is still active?
At least two
Yes.
Exactly my question? They ask for jets like they have none left but then I see daily claims of them using jets.
If you have none left it's too late to ask your partners for replacement?
They ask for jets like they are in a large scale active war with a bigger foe.
You don't have to wait till you run out of jets to ask for more.
That was so cinematic
Is "Just shoot rockets that way" actually taught at flying school? I've seen a ton of videos of Russian helicopters doing the same thing? Does this shit actually work?
the planes have guidance computers for the rockets most likely, as long as they put the calculated impact point on their hud over the target it’ll most likely hit
IIRC it's a tactic they improvised because manpads are just way too good at taking out choppers so getting close means instant death, but they still need air support somehow.
Take a look to the sky just before you die
It's the last time you will
Upvotes for Metallica always.
Revisiting they’re discography for the first time in a couple years and man, I can’t get over how good they still are. Without doubt one of the GOATs
I picked up Master of Puppets and Ride the Lightning a few months ago on vinyl and I haven’t stopped spinning them
Ride the Lightning has really become one of my favorite albums. I’d love to pick it up on vinyl.
fade to black is sick but the goat is kix. "kix are for kids", "layin' rubber", "hot wire", "midnite dynamite"... haven't seen it done better. especially live.
metallica never gets remotely hyphy like this: https://youtu.be/1Gc3PVkLawo?t=165
On Through The Night predated the Kix album by a year but other than that... just AC/DC really
I've seen this from both sides. Helicopters and fixed wing. Fly low, pitch up, launch Rockets towards the enemy. Basically the most expensive, ineffective, thing you could do with an aircraft. They might as well save the avgas.
It's why the Ukrainians love the HIMARS. They have an effect on the enemy.
Why do they deploy flares after launching the rockets?
Bearing in for an attack run is very vulnerable, you have to stay straight and level until you shoot so its the best time for someone to lock a missile on you. The flares are precautionary because the attack run is when you are most likely to be shot at.
That's pretty much how the only missile lock (or simulated kill?) on the sr71 was ever achieved they saw them practicing the same run for weeks so they planned an intercept path, I think head on.
I believe the procedure for a middle lock was to "hit the gas" and just outrun it
Neat. Thanks.
Username does not check out
Did SR-71 or U-2 even need flares?
No because the S in SR-71 stands for Speed
Probably not since at the extreme altitudes and speeds they fly the threat is radar homing surface to air missiles and radar homing long range air to air missiles fired by Russian interceptors.
The froggyfoot always gets an upvote from me.
Slava 🇺🇦
[removed]
As usual, source = trust me bro
I'm guessing whoever filmed this said so and that person would know if the rockets are being fired in the direction of Ukrainian or Russian positions.
so what you're saying is we don't actually know.
Exactly
That's my first question. Especially with reddit constant pro Ukraine propoganda. Can't really trust anything here because narrative> reality.
Lmao and what reality are you referring to? Has Kyiv or Kharkiv fallen? Zelensky already surrendered?
I'm going to venture a guess that Russia has lost a lot of its air defense ability and the ability it did have seems like it wasn't what they claimed.
The engineers who designed that plane are rolling in their grave.
We built a modern jet and you are using it is as a mlrs technical?!
I have to imagine when your creation is still getting used in combat 47 years later you don't much mind what it's being used for.
sometimes i use a wrench as a hammer
get over it
Soviets actually practiced that sort of thing, unlike western airforces, so I doubt anyone would be rolling in their graves now.
Air superiority is critical in modern warfare. The formerly much-vaunted Russian Air Force must be crying in shame that Ukrainian Air Force is still flying. This is an attack not only on Russian positions, but on Russian morale.
Ukraine Air Force has been eliminated a long time ago
Black is white, and white is black. Never trust your eyes. If party says something has been done, it has been done.
Must be the Ukranian Navy flying these constant air sorties then?
Why would you think that is Ukraine?
Doesn’t this just prove Russia creates good SAMs?
The Israelis don’t seem to think so.
What this proves is that the Russian army is incompetent and the Ukrainian army much less so.
So what is keeping Russia from having air superiority?
Ukrainian air defences blowing them out of the sky.
Which literally proves Russia manufactures good SAMs…
My original point lmao
A SAM that is able to shoot down a target doesn’t immediately rule it as good, it means it’s not a useless hunk of shit. Their SAMs haven’t had much luck at all shooting Israeli jets in the Syrian border area, they seem to be just targets for Israeli HARM missiles.
Is this the Ukraine Airforce that got smashed on Day 2 of the Invasion? evil grin
I always try to find real fighter jet combat footage but usually the results are from Arma 3 or some other garbage 😔
Have you found any videos worth mentioning?
I hope many invaders were killed by those defensive actions!
This conflict has truly revealed that a once feared army isn’t anything close to what everyone thought it was. Putin has destroyed his country.
As awful it is that these things are necessary and this is all happening, if we remove the context for a moment: these kinda of machines and tools really showcase some of the best of modern human ingenuity and are incredibly impressive
Is it me it does it seem like the Ukrainians have been using their airforce more now than they had before?
Interesting... They aren't lobbing them into the air like they usually do, so they're pretty close to the front line.
That's helicopters not jets ya mad gonk
jets still do it
I mean, physics is physics. You can loft anything
[deleted]
A-10s dont Loft rockets but that s because their balistic computer dont calculate that sort of stuff as NATO only loft bombs. It can be modifyed quite easily.
[deleted]
A-10C -34 manual. The A-10 does not have a rocket loft option in his balistic computer as it s not requiered. However, it could easily be change and You can still calculate easily a Loft trajectory for APKWS.
Also I should add that, while You cant loft rockets You can loft bombs.
[deleted]
People did said it to him. If You know some A-10 pilots (witch I dont. I m only refering to the doc) I d be glad if You could ask them. But -34 say no loft for rockets.
[deleted]
I m curious to know then if you do the math or use CCRP.
Good. Then I do thank You for the clarification. I ll keep that in mind.
We've seen the su-25s do it on both sides.
The extra speed from being launched from a jet might make it hard to compare.
Aren't they?
yeah, we really cannot tell from this angle.
Oh yes, we can
Is this Obama?
it's just the perspective
Such S400, much wow. Turkey and India must be reconsidering their life choices rn.
In completely unrelated news, Russia's about to have a flash sale on the S-400.
Is this recent? Ukraine still has jets flying? Russia is fucked.
u/savevideo
God damn this is so bad ass...
Unless you're Russia.
At least they look cool while doing this
Did they second one break mach?
[removed]
Why can you just say two Ukrainian war planes bombing russian positions?
This fucking nation has lost the ability to communicate a simple message clearly. Everything is packed with bullshit now. Like processed food. We need new stickers. NSFL? NSFW? nah, use BSAF.
Which ones the ghost of Kiev?
[deleted]
Found Putin's reddit account.
:P
And they missed. Hahaha
I always assume this is just Arma 3 content before I really look at it at this point.
Know the difference between simulation and real life plz 😂😂def experts 🤣
Use 40 million dollar jet to launch a $20,000 dumfire rocket. Okay.
Better than having a 40 million dollar jet sitting idle in a hangar with zero prospects of making a contribution to the war.
disagree, because in one of these two scenarios, you arent risking a 40 million dollar jet
If you don't use the jet in an invasion of your home country, then it's just paperweight
What’s the point of having it if you’re never going to use it?
It’s like playing a game and finishing it with stacks and stacks of really OP potions because you saved them for when you really needed them.
Is Ukraine our new Afghanistan? Sure seems like it. The military machine needs to make a profit.
If “our” means Russian, then yes.
No because Ukraine is actually fighting for their country.
We can’t see the damage? More staged stuff
Your entire profile is you calling things 'staged' or 'CGI', from Ukraine to NASA. And you're a flatearther lol. I can't even...
Lol yeah this guy just hopped over from Facebook about a year ago
You believe everything you see on tv😵💫
Believing nothing is as foolish as believing everything.
No, but I’m not about to be lectured by a flat-earther. I could have a more intellectual conversation with any random second grader. Good day.
Wanna have a conversation about how the earth is not a Ball but a potato?
I want to believe...
Well it is. But not for potato reason.
What a stupid argument, just because it goes against your sense of reality doesn’t mean it’s “fake” you’re just dumb af 💀
I mean. At That Point TV tell me earth is flat. Then tell me 10min laters that it s a marble. But dont worry, having a degree in geology from the University of Lille, it s a Ball.
/r/nothingeverhappens
Wow that is incredible video!
/u/savevideo
Nothing will ever be as badass as seeing gun runs or rocket salvos from any jet.
Here's a question, without any air force knowledge. Why only one attack vector? If my aa defense kinda knows something is coming from this direction, why send multiple planes down the same flight path? Would it not be better to split up and attack from two different directions to make targeting harder, or is that just really obsolete now?
They just seem, I don’t know, flying casual… I always assumed a ground run would have a steeper attack angle and they’d be full afterburner if they have them?
source: I saw Discovery channel once.
Why did they both deploy chaff? Were they in an area with AA or something?
Go get ‘em!!!!
Why they throw off flares after the missile shots?
It’s called the “look cool” factor
Why did they throw chaf?
Sick footage, this soldier had some courtside seats
Dude escape from Tarkov lookin good
Using a calendar to measure that turn rate.
/u/savevideo
Low altitude fighter jet footage is always a treat to watch. Probably my favorite stuff to see on here
Things we love to see:
Is it just me or does that look like ace combat cg stitched together with a real landscape?
gonna take u right into the DANGER ZONE
War sucks but that looks epic as hell
Serious question, why throw flares?
Did that 2nd plane get shot down??
What kind of rockets are these? Look pretty big, does that imply longer range?
EDIT: For those interested: S-25 (makes sense to me, other answers are too small):
- 1.5-3km range (so remains short range)
- unguided (guided variant exists but this is UAF)
- 266mm rocket with 58kg of explosive in the warhead (pretty big boom, roughly half a HIMARS M30 rocket warhead)
- anti soft / semi-soft
Second jet apparently fired S-25, 2 pods per wing, one rocket per pod
Explosive weight on those?
That's a fucking gigantic boom for a rocket
[deleted]
I really doubt it, there is a bird, and the trees are moving a lot with the wind.
I don't know of any war type game that would animate the trees and the bird like that.
How can you tell? All I got from the video is that it is probably recorded from old phone camera
Probably Ukrainian made RS-80.
Or more likely S-13 122mm.
The Brit’s have given Ukraine brimstone anti tank rockets that are designed to be air launched. If they can retrofit their jets to mount the pods they would be devastating against Russian armor targets.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brimstone_(missile)
Su-25 will not have the tech inside to ever use a brimstone, the guided munitions they use are pretty basic CCD imagery shown on a TV like apparatus or laser beam riding missiles, 70s/80s tech. Brimstone might be of use in a modified ground launcher, I know I've seen HMMV-like launchers with Amraams for short range air defense.
They are launching brimstone in fire and forget mode from a back of a pickup truck. Surely a jet will be an upgrade.
I don’t think you understand how difficult it would be to retro fit the nato tech to old Soviet tech let alone getting the parts to even physically work. Then re training those pilots, your looking at months if not years before they are deployable.
Yeah I don't think these guys understand what airworthiness is in terms of engineering and maintenance. People think about this like it's a fucking hilux, if I was a pilot and someone rigged some untested shit up to my airframe, I'd refuse to get in.
Yea they play too many video games where you just pick your load out or something. “Psch just put that ground based brand new tech on a fucking foreign plane with zero compatible hardware and just expect it to work let alone work perfectly hurrr durrr”
Sorry the hurr durr was a hit much
"Surely there is a youtube video that shows you how to do it though"
Yeah I'm a systems Engineer for a company working on an AEW&C platform in a Western country and this sub has some quality comedy sometimes.
It’s genuinely refreshing seeing someone with actual logic in here. 😂 cool Job by the way
It pays the bills
Airworthiness goes out the window when in a total war. Does it work? Maybe? Good enough.
That didn't even apply to WW2 (at least for western countries). A pilot is the most valuable part of this equation, if you fucking kill a crew because you sent them up in some bullshit you have destroyed any future chances of operation.
When in "total war" you want to maximize efficiency. Throwing away your best trained personnel (which are practically irreplaceable in country as any attempts to train new personnel would be met with lethal force) in scarcely available, high value equipment, that you can barely maintain all because you want to strap some crap to it is about as far from efficient as you can get.
The UA figured out how to get a commercial drone to drop a grenade by rigging up a light sensor that activated the drop mechanism and used the “auxiliary light” button on the controls to drop the grenade. They did this so they could just clip the mechanism on the drone and have it work without any soldering. They have a legit aerospace industry and a bunch of aerospace and other engineers that I’m sure are working on the problem.
That’s not the point it’s entirely different designs it’s like putting a square peg in a Round hole. To put nato weapons on Soviet gear would mean redesigning the entire aircraft, mounting point, software, then you would need to retrain the pilots on how the system works. It’s been proven and discussed by top military leaders several times over. Look it up, here’s a little article that kind of goes over it.
The targeting systems wouldnt even work, the guidance systems on Soviet aircraft won’t work with nato gear etc. It would be designing and entire new craft.
Setting up a commercial drone that is easily configurable has absolutely nothing to do with this situation
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/06/world/europe/ukraine-advanced-weapons-training.html
Not a single ex-Soviet plane in NATO inventory ever fired a western weapon.
And yet, there are people who come in these threads and go "just fire them from their planes" ... hardpoints on planes are different, western weapons do not fit on soviet planes and vice versa. How hard is to understand that?
What you say is very false. Romanian mig21 uses western radars and missiles. And im pretty sure its not the only case.
Checkout Indian Airforce Inventory, Russian Jets, Israeli Avionics, Western/Indian weapons, European targeting systems. It's a mix of everything. Given time and money, anything can be done, but again, Ukraine is in a war, they don't have the liberty to allocate resources for this.
They have been working on their drone program for 8 years. They didn't start at the beginning of the war.
Could it be done? Probably? Would it work? I don't know, but my gut says no. Maybe in a two seater you could give the back seater a tablet or some interface to use them, but jets are such complex and fragile machines. Froggies are old school bomb trucks to boot
No, no and no.
NATO has been flying ex-Soviet planes for 30 years and not a single one of them has fired a western weapon so far.
True, however NATO has replaced the avionics in their su27s with western versions
"their" meaning the Ukrainian's.
The Ukrainian's modified the Su27 radar, nav and comms to NATO standards
https://www.kyivpost.com/russias-war/pentagon-confirms-ukraine-has-high-tech-harm-missiles-17-kremlin-anti-air-systems-reportedly-hit.html
Many have been modernized and had NATO equipment added, but not a single one launched an air to air missile like Sidewinder or AMRAAM.
Yeah well give er the ol duct tape treatment and i bet some redneck hahahahaha nevermind
[deleted]
I know sweet fuck all about airborne weapons systems but even I can tell this entire post is wrong as shit.
[deleted]
I imagine there's a bit of a difference in the physics of a Hilux and a few tons of flying metal but sure ok.
Geeeee.... and no one in NATO ever thought of this? In 30 years that ex-Soviet planes have been flying in NATO air forces?
I guess all those generals, engineers and other need to read reddit more often.
Probably because they dont want a legitimate fire and forget missile on a plane, however desperate times call for desperate measures.
I mean, nice DIY imagination but this is not how aeronautical engineering works at all.
Your talking about avenger turrets correct?
I don't know what they were called, SLAMRAAM I think
Anything stopping them jerry-rigging a set up where the jets get them to the target vicinity, and a ground based operator controls them after launch?
I mean certainly not the limit of human ingenuity, just feasibility I suppose. Just because they could potentially do it don't mean they should. They'll use these weapons in the most easily implemented manner before trying to reinvent the wheel.
Look at Iran and their F-14s, they've tried for decades to get those birds to integrate their radars with Russian missiles but it never really worked, and they had all this time to make it happen.
I know Ukraine might well have some help from the Brits to get Brimstone to cooperate but the British DoD isn't going to roll out the red carpet into the weapon specs for Russia either, as a shootdown and capture of this hypothetical brimstone Froggy would be a coup for Ivan.
Based on number of rockets fired, S13. S13 are heavy rockets designed for hitting fortified positions
🫦