-Enters
-Paints the Wounded Angel
-Refuses to elaborate further
-Leaves
-Painting becomes a finnish national masterpiece
-Enters
-Paints the Wounded Angel
-Refuses to elaborate further
-Leaves
-Painting becomes a finnish national masterpiece
fins are not known to be talkative
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr3wzbQS88w&ab_channel=Joni%26Pete
The most Finnish event ever
We donāt like to talk about it but refusing to eleborate further is also quite popular over here
Stop blabbing.
Maybe the angel is a reference to the children's innocence
We were all thinking it
Finland: So what does this painting mean?
Hugo Simberg: https://y.yarn.co/1bc851db-d02d-4293-98b6-79cd6e3fb0c2.mp4
the E.P.R.L.P. system
I love the refusal to elaborate
Gigachad vibes
Lol they donāt even have the full meaning and made it their national painting. What am I missing?
It's a very Finnish thing to do. I know a handful of Finnish people. They tend towards hard work, endure hardship with very little complaint, and don't brook licking their wounds for long, but also shun those with no compassion for others. For further info look up Sisu. Or stare at this painting untill you understand what it means.
I like that. Even further I'd say that's what art is all about.
Youāre missing your vision, the painting is the explanation. It speaks a million words.
I suppose.
itās art not prose. itās not meant to be expressed in words.
The kids look to you like it's your fault. Really like the vibe of this one
Yeah. Kid is thinking, "You know what you did."
Thatās also the look of victims of war crimes and disasters looking at photographers. The hatred of being exploited combined with the hope that someone will help and the knowledge that they canāt get away.
That is my interpretation of this particular painting too. I even have a print of this painting in a wall to remind me of not being a total fucking dick because one day doing so could hurt an angel.
Maybe it represents a death to innocence?
I love how it could be interpreted 2 ways. The boys are good, and helping and protecting her (The look they give the viewer is accusatory, like you are at fault for her harm). Or the boys are bad, and blindfolded her to disable her so they could take her (the look they give the viewer is defensive and confrontational, like you might try to rescue or take her from them).
This is the first time Ive seen the painting, but the ambiguity of the thing feels like the most interesting part of it. Do you see the children as inherently good, in which case you the viewer are the threat or cause of harm? or do you see them as evil, in which case you are the rescuer?
I could be completely off though. Again, not at all familiar with he painting.
I remember a Finnish schoolbook describing the look as saying āsometimes this just happens in life.ā Never thought of it the way you did, interesting.
The kids look to you
Like it's your fault. Really like
The vibe of this one
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As a father, there are no worse things than to see your kids faces after having messed up something important to them.
I see that emotion in this painting.
Wow I totally misread that. Thought you wrote āAs a farmerā¦ā and I kept thinking why would it matter that youāre a farmer lol. Made sense after I re-read your post.
This and āonly kids are pure enough to keep the true faith aliveā. Itās not that cryptic, people!
Thereās not one meaning or interpretation to artwork and to claim there is one is dumb
Sure, but often thereās the main one
That has the same energy as that one David Lynch interview.
"I think Eraserhead is probably my most spiritual film."
"Oh? Can you elaborate?"
"No."
Early Bob Dylan interviews were like that.
āDo you prefer songs with or without meaning?ā
āWhy do you say that?ā
āPeople say your songs have meaningā
āWho told you that?ā
āI donāt know people say thatā
And then inspired a Nightwish music video.
For me it looks like is a symbolism of lost innocence.
Like the angel is fallen and the children have to carry it to somewhere, and they are all worried.
One of the children is looking to someone outside the painting, like they commited some shameful thing, and everybody saw it.
(grammar fix whoops) *elaborate on the meaning further
For those curious, this is an example of the Symbolist movement in art. Not elaborating is part of the deal.
My grandparents actually had a copy of this in their living room, always found it sad when I was a child.
Saw this in Helsinki. Still love it. Simberg really gives a certain feeling in his art. Souly, folk art?? I don't know I just like it.
"Is this the Region, this the Soil, the Clime, Said then the lost Arch-Angel, this the seat That we must change for Heav'n, this mournful gloom For that celestial light?"
('Paradise Lost', book I - John Milton)
Stop looking at me young Anakin.
Not everything needs to have an explanation
Aught to be Taistelevat metsot lol
https://www.kansallisgalleria.fi/en/object/389906?imageId=287105
If I recall, a similar piece by v. Wright was sold on Bukowskis in December 2019 (naturally, for significantly less than what Stridande TjƤdertuppar would). I'd go look for it, but you have to create an account on the website to look at the past lots, and I'm not doing that.
No, I mean similar to the grouses that /u/OCRJ41 is talking about.
I love the accusatory look on the right child's face. We done f*cked up, I guess.
This is one of my favorites. Itās just incredible.
The kids are carrying their dead friend, already sick of it all.
The russification of Finland. He would be silenced if he elaborated.
I was just checking to see if there is any historical context for this painting. Was there a war in Finland, famine, or some other event that would be a part of the national attitude of the time? Wikipedia does reference the Russification of Finland about the time the painting was made. Another painting from that time period is not subtle with its symbolism: the dark two-headed hawk, symbolizing Russia, attacks the law book held by the Maiden of Finland (personification of the nation). Apparently there were several sources that describe the despair when Tzar Nicholas II issued a manifesto in 1899, which asserted rule over Finland and relegated Finnish parliament to an advising role. At the time the painting was made, there would have been oppression of the Finns in terms of their language, expression of faith, and self-governance. A conscription law made men in the Finnish army serve Russia.
What?
Iāve never seen this painting before and Iām definitely not an art critique of any kind but my first initial thoughts looking at this painting is that the girl is their sister who has died in some type of accident, maybe hit her head (explains the bandage?).
I donāt think these boys are at fault directly but have an indirect causation to the death I.e playing on a hill etc, sister falls and dies. The image to me is the father showing the representation that the brothers will ācarryā this burden for the rest of their lives.
Just my thoughts.
I believe that the angel is blind/ has been blinded, which would explain how the bandages have been tied up in a more headband manner.
I think it's about loss of childhood innocence through hardship. The boys look toiled and unhappy in their labor to do away with a dead angel.
I donāt see guilt. I see blame.
The kid in the back looks like he is over it.
Kid in the front looks like a little Tom Waits.
Wasnāt that also the inspiration for the amaranth by nightwish music video?
walks in
Creates epic painting
refuses to elaborate
Leaves
Is thatā¦Anakin Skywalker?
I like that the painter refused to elaborate, that is always preferable to me, even if and when I'm left with a truckload of questions.
The boy at the back sure looks unhappy/mad/defiant or something. It reminds me of the older brother forced to help a younger angel of a sister and heās mad about it. Maybe a childish resentment embarrassed Hugo, and he felt he was made to cater to a perfect sibling? Interesting. Thereās a story there for sure. Edit: I see all the other posts after writing this but I will leave my initial impression since it was my unbiased first impression. Art should create an emotion, right?
This is weird but I work in a mental institution in Belgium and a print of this painting is hanging is some random corner. Always have me weird vibes, had no idea it was something known. Figured it was just some random shitty artwork.
Weird and shitty? Did you ever stoo to actually look at it?
It's an unique painting by one of the greatest Finnish artists.
Still probably not a great place for it
And why is that?
Well it's obviously a Halloween party gone wrong.
Kid in the back is like "this bitch got wings but we have to carry her?" šš¤£
Just not " biblically accurate " angel.
That might be an entirely more frightening image.
The angel has too much vodka..
What is there to elaborate on. It's an injured angel and two pig pens are carrying it
I thought he was doing dips for a second
The boys' feet are massive
Or maybe it is that they have big shoes to fillā¦
hey explain your damn painting, you goon
/s
The fallen angel is Satan garnering sympathy, I think.
Makes national painting
Refuses to elaborate
Leaves
[deleted]
I was just going to say, isnt Amaranth based on this story, awesome!
AMAZING SONG
I really love the concept behind Nightwish,it's unique and ambitious, but boy, I can't stand their music.
Their album āOnceā is a god damn masterpiece.
I'm sure it is, I just can't get passed the vocals.
I can see that. Their biggest selling point is their instrumentals and insane level of work put into production. Itās the whole reason why Rolling Stone magazine had āOnceā in their Top 100 metal albums of all time
Interesting. These days, I'm generally a Tech Death listener, and after many years of listening to loads of metal genres with harsh vocals, clean vocals in metal are generally offputting for me. I generally dislike Power Metal primarily for that reason, among others.
I listen to mostly death metal (whenever I listen to metal), but their musical creativity is just astonishing. And I love that they got the Finnish Philharmonical Orchestra to work with them
Orchestras are professionals. Give them money, and they'll play for you or with you.
I said it more as what lengths they go to in order achieve the music that they want to make. It is a nod to the quality of their product.
Have you explored Technical Death at all? It rapidly became my favorite genre after I discovered it. Been a metal listener for like 20 years now.
Canāt really say I have. I grew up listening to Thrash metal and Norwegian black metal (I am Norwegian) and recently got heavy into bands like Paleface. Any recommendations?
Archspire is the greatest band to ever walk the Earth. Their production, songwriting, and performances are a world above anything I have ever encountered. I've seen them live twice, and they do not disappoint. They are from Canada.
Other great Tech Death:
Psycroptic (Tasmania)
Inferi (Nashville, USA)
Exocrine (France)
Virvum (Switzerland)
Cytotoxin (Germany)
Decided to have a listen to Bleed the Future. That shit was awesome. I am a bit of an audiophile, so I really appreciate big soundstage and intricate instrumentals and Archspire blew me away! That fucking drummer is pure perfection with the fast flow from the vocalist. Iāll have to check out those other bands as well, thanks!
Archspire should be doing a European tour a month or two after they finish their upcoming Latin America tour. Can't recommend them enough. Their previous album, Relentless Mutation, was mixed by the same producer as Bleed the Future, Dave Otero. Every song they have ever written is Tech Death gold. I just hope they remaster their self titled album and Lucid Collective with Dave Otero at the controls.
It's insane to me that each instrument is so distinct in their two latest albums. You'd think mixing a band that plays at 350 beats per minute or more would be nigh impossible but it's done so with perfection.
I am listening to Relentless Mutation now and yeah I agree. It is incredibly well mixed, I think I will actually enjoy testing out various different headsets I own using this band. It is rare that I find something new to test, but this is exciting as all hell
Welcome to the world of being an Archspire fan. From now on all metal will be pale in comparison. Once you start understanding Oli's vocals, it transforms even further. His lyrics are based on his surreal, messed up dreams, and generally feature a mysterious organization known as Apeiron Universal Migration, or A.U.M that endeavours to either enslave humanity or sell them out to a cosmic horror.
To be fair, I am a massive Paleface fan, so I donāt think other metal will be boring but I think Archspire is one of few bands Iāve heard that can match that really intense energy
Gimmie a song to check out.
I think Hellhole and The Orphan are good introductions but honestly their whole newest album is a wild ride, start to finish. And yes, they are edgy and yes, they are very self-aware about it. Swiss boys
They kind of remind me of Slipknot back in the Iowa/Self Titled era before they started making radio safe music. Come to think of it, you might also like Vulvodynia, particularly their latest album, Praenuntius Infiniti. They were predominantly a Slam Metal band, but they dipped their toes in to Tech Death with that album, or as they describe themselves, "Tech Support." Duncan Bently's vocals are some of the best growls I've ever heard. They are from South Africa.
Yes, Palefaceās vocalist has often been compared to old-school Corey Taylor, just with a faster flow. South-african metal? Sounds very interesting, Iāll add them to the list, thanks!
Africa doesn't have a huge metal scene, but every time I find a new band from there I'm always tickled to check it out. Botswana's metal culture is wildly different from European and Western culture. They dress like American cowboys, but in all-black studded and spiked leather.
Taja turunen had a very operatic voice, when they changed lead singers, it really changed the sound of their music, maybe you'll like it?
I'll check it out. Which album?
I want to say Dark Passion Play, or Amaranth
Too much like Power Metal for me. There's something about metal that's played in a way that could be described as "light hearted" that just doesn't sit with me.
Thanks for trying to get me in to it, though.
Try their third singer Floor Jansen. She's next level.
https://youtu.be/zz_7OCCQlXs
Those are still clean vocals. Until they have a vocalist who growls I'm not gonna like them.
She does growl in some songs, but if all you like is metal growls then no you wont like 95% of music out there.
I don't like clean vocals in metal. I have a wide and varied taste in music, but when it comes to metal, clean vocals (except when used sparingly) really puts me off.
I mean metal is very varied, so it seems odd to me to draw an artificial line at 'metal', but OK.
Can't help what I do and don't like. I'm not drawing an arbitrary line, I'm just following my tastes, sorta like how I find this song by Cephalic Carnage a masterpiece while my friends think it sounds like random noise. I don't mind clean vocals that are elegantly mixed with growls like this song by Jinjer.
I love Jinjer as well, Im just saying metal is so varied that some is almost pop like anyway. The nearest you will get with Nightwish is 'Yours is an Empty hope', during the chorus.
https://youtu.be/vyLsU7Q333k
The growls are all Floor. They aren't Jinjer level but they are her.
Gotta admit I didn't find that very exciting. Nightwish just isn't for me, sorry.
Fair enough. I dont like everything of theirs, and I only like Floor, not the other 2 singers.
Have you tried the current vocalist Floor Jansen? Much more variety in style and emotion. I can only handle the first one for a few songs and the 2nd not at all.
Which vocals? They keep changing the singer lol
He doesn't like clean vocals and Floors growls aren't growly enough, apparently.
They've had 3 singers, all very different. Maybe you could check some of their works featuring a different singer if you don't like a particular one
[deleted]
I've never been a fan of Opera, so while I find Nightwish objectively interesting, I just can't like it.
My personal favorite in Symphonic Metal is Dimmu Borgir. They toured with the Oslo Symphony Orchestra for a while.
Theyāve had three singers, with the one who sang on Dark Passion Play not being operatic in any way! I donāt know what they sound like now, I have to check out their newer stuff.
If Iām honest, I like Annette (who came after Tarja, and who sang Amaranth) and Floor (their current singer) better than Tarja. Not that Tarjaās a bad singer-far from it-operaās just not to my taste. Thereās a video of Floor on YouTube singing Ghost Love Score that shows off her voice well.
Same. Tarja is my least favourite, simply because of the style of her singing. Not bad at all, just not my jam.
Oh, interesting. I'll have to check that out.
Their lead singer has been Floor Jansen (ex-After Forever) since 2013. Floor is an exceptionally talented singer, has a huge range, but also likely more palatable to those who don't much care for Tarja's classically trained voice. OTOH their latest two albums are definitely rather ambitious and "artistic", even experimental, so YMMV.
Endless forms most beautiful wasā¦ ok? Kinda felt like they were trying to do another Once
Their latest album belongs in the trash
And Iām a huge nightwish fan
Peak Nightwish is Floor singing the older stuff, that's why the Wachen 2013 show is so legendary.
You probably know this, but Tarja doesnāt sing on Dark Passion Play, itās Anette Olzon.
[deleted]
I didnāt mean it like that, itās just that you talked about both Tarja and that album, so I wanted to make sure.
Yeah I only listened to about 3 seconds of the above link, but I will definitely never be listening to that band. Those vocals are painful.
Yeah, that's kinda how I feel about it. I generally feel that way about clean vocals in metal, and metal that sounds light hearted or celebratory.
Yeah man I agree. It's kinda just weird pop music with distorted guitars and an edgy image.
The screamy harsh metal is a relatively new thing, its not how metal started out.
OK try the version sung by their newest singer Floor.
She is much more rocky and metal than the other singer, but it is one of their lighter songs anyway. I do find Anette a little shrill. Anettes whole era was more pop like, Floor was in other metal bands before joining Nightwish, so she is more metal.
If you want harder then try Epica. They are symphonic, and have an operatic singer, but they also have screamers and their music is much heavier.
I'd have to agree but so glad I found all this!
I'm always down to help people find extreme metal they like. Just lemmie know.
I feel like the only good symphonic metal is Rammstein.
Maybe Coheed and Cambria too, but itās a bit whiny
You're missing out. This is my kind of Symphonic Metal.
Wow okay I was not expecting this to be so good
Dimmu Borgir is one of the best. Fleshgod Apocalypse is another one, but I'm not as in to them.
Rammstein is industrial metal, not symphonic metal, although they have one or two songs that are a bit. They are nearer EDM than symphonic metal.
Thatās fair. Now that I think about it, Lindmannās solo stuff is whatās symphonic
I know what you mean.. I use to like them but now I just find it cringey
I used to be OBSESSED with that video in middle school/high school. God I loved Nightwish.
Are they still a thing?
Yes! Since 2013 their lead singer has been Floor Jansen who is all sorts of awesome. Here's Amaranth from Wacken 2013. They've only released two albums in the past ten years, but those are rather ambitious works.
Yeah I only know of the Nightwish from 10+ years ago, I think they switched singers since then?
Twice in fact.
I was wondering which came first lol
That's awesome to know, all of their songs are pretty amazing
Well, the Wounded Angel was painted in 1904. So, yeah.
Oh oops shouldāve read the comments before I posted mine.
First thought! Great band and song
I clicked on the comments for this exact reason
I saw this and went "Oh hey thats just like Amaranths music video! What a coincidence!"
Not a coincidence I guess lol
Also the beginning of the G.U.Y. music video by Lady Gaga
Exactly what I thought of when I opened this post. I always wondered what the inspiration for Amaranth was.
I immediately thought of this video when I saw the painting!!