This is posted over at rumble.com by user General Jackson as transcribed from his video...

"If you bought a firearm from a Walmart or other retail store or a private gun shop, or even a gun show where you had to show and ID and fill out any forms, you can rest assured that you are now a handful of government databases and "watch-lists" that are updated every 30 days.

This data will certainly be used when tyrannical forces and politicians within America prevail to the point of excessive powers, corruption, and arrogance to initiate an illegal gun confiscation by force if a buy-back program does not disarm the public. Although such a confiscation would be a violation of constitutional law, at that point in time, the government authorizing the gun grab would hardly be legitimate. To prepare for that imminent day, here is what you can do NOW, to keep government goons from terrorizing your family in their quest to disarm you...

1) Legally sell all of your guns to the oldest senior of your family or a trusted friend that is terminally ill or living and working overseas.

2) Be sure to register the sale with the ATF using their official form no. 4473 which you can get a copy of here or any private gun shop https://www.atf.gov/firearms/atf-form-4473-firearms-transaction-record-revisions. Also check with your state to see where you can register the sale and how. Your nearest State Police office can guide you on this matter. In most states, this form is sufficient https://eforms.com/bill-of-sale/firearm/

3) When submitted, the law requires that the new owner of the firearms and their address replace yours. This is why ALL of your guns be sold to that person (for any amount you choose). Under method of payment, be sure to check "cash"

4) You may choose to become the "guardian" or "custodian" of the firearms for safekeeping or security purposes, but most preparers will insert the guns spraryed with silicone and their ammo into PVC pipes with end caps sealed with silicone and buried at least 3 feet underground at least a mile from their residence in some remote park, forest. field and making note of the GPS position or mark the spot with in a way only they would recognize (ie. a pile of rocks, a rusty chain, animal skeleton, etc.) You could keep one of your guns in your home for emergency situations (well-hidden) until the Executive Order to confiscate guns is officially given.

5) After the sale is registered with the ATF, it will take approximately 30 days for their records to be updated and at that point, you will no longer be legally responsible for those firearms.

6) Thereafter, if you are ever visited by DHS or any law enforcement official hunting down guns (not likely unless you shared your secret with others), you can legally and politely say, "Sorry but I do not own any guns - have a nice day officer" and close the door. By law you are not required to answer any questions and unless they present a specific court order that identifies your homes "interior spaces and surrounding property" they are not allowed to enter your home unless you consent.

7) All of the above also applies to your ammo because if ammo is found in your home, garage. car or garden shed, it will obviously tip them off you have the guns to match the ammo. And now that we are discussing ammo, there is a very good chance that ammunition will be outlawed to own or sell in the near future. Therefore you need to stock up up as soon as you can to afford to do so, but never buy it online which will be easily traced to you, your delivery address, or your ISP if you forgot to use TOR"

The video continues for another 3 minutes talking about your 4th amendment rights (legal protections against unreasonable searches and seizures)

Yeah, private sales are still legal with no requirement for record keeping, at least where I live. Seems like a lot more work than just saying "No, I don't have that gun anymore."

That answer won't stop them from searching your house.

That would be the 4th amendment. See #6 above.

The "bury all your guns part" was pretty funny to me.

If they find it in your home or car you will lose it. Still laughing?

I'm laughing at your line of reasoning and logic. I feel like you are trolling, but I can't be sure. That's also the sign of the best trolls. When it is almost impossible to discern the intent behind the statement.

Except it doesn't. There is zero to prove that the records of your sale takes you off any list, and loads of proof it adds another record to the growing database.

You know there are easier ways to hide them them bury them right?

Lost me at hide my guns.

It is a shame that you might have to do so, but would you rather lose them, when they may be required to fight an occupation or launch an insurgency? We are now finding ourselves in a political chess game in America. Remember that what Hitler did was technically "legal" when he began his crackdown and dictatorship. In America and apparently Canada too, laws can be enacted with a stroke of the President's pen. Just look at all the COVID mandates.

As to your Nazi registration comment, see the link. The Nazis focus was on Jewish persons, not the population as a whole. Hitler opened up gun laws generally. Does that make him okay? I hope you don’t think so.

Congress (or a legislature) enacts laws. The Executive Branch (President or governor) enforced them. The Judiciary determines whether or not what Congress and the Executive enacted and are enforcing is Constitutional.

Congress can enact gun laws. The President can empower ATF to enforce them. If SCOTUS says they aren’t lawful, then it’s done.

I always dislike it when people say, “X country handles firearms this way and they have (insert any statistical issue).” So? Do they have an identical 2A? Are they established under an identical Constitution? Are they operating as a Democratic Republic? So many factors impact how those things are governed and the result.

I hear ya. Best of luck.

I feel like this is a kid with 2 accounts, who’s just trolling after watching Red Dawn (the original, not the mediocre remake), and they’re going back and forth with comments and support just to troll.

Op didn’t start with “my uncle is a former ATF agent who explained to me”…it was, I saw on some other site the info I’m gonna recite here. Now that his uncle is a former ATF agent, it’s him that’s the source of this “credible” (absent any authority) information.

OP has some other user who posts in support when he’s challenged. It seems like he suddenly knows Rob’s uncle served for 2 decades. Interesting. Just how close are you two? Side by side? One and the same?

I’m dipping. I had hoped to educate OP and anyone else who read it and didn’t know, but it seems that there’s enough people calling out OP that this is a closed circuit. God help the country if OP’s uncle was an ATF agent with that kinda logic.

Rob told us the background of his uncle eh?

Why not just claim you sold them private sale, hide them, and submit a dummy bill of sale to one John Q.Public. you could go one step further and have some odd ball butter knife gun that they can confiscate. Claim no one was interested in it.

You could do this of course BUT be advised it is a class 3 felony to lie to a law enforcement officer, and if they trip you up in your story you could find yourself in jail for 1 year. It is better to remain silent than to say anything at all. It is best to keep them on your door-step while you inform them you are calling your lawyer who will speak on your behalf.

That I'm aware of. And this is the same advise I share with others as well. But keeping with the discussion this would be simpler. When the day comes for the ATF to seize your guns, they'll have a warrant. You won't keep them on the door steps. They won't play the lawyer game.

Yes, you are correct, but warrants are limited in scope and if in that case I would take out my phone and record their every word and action, and refer any questions they have to my lawyer.

Today yes. You are correct and spot on. Tomorrow all bets are off. Authoritarian Governments don't acknowledge rights. With in the context of this post. I think it would be easier to fake a sales receipt then to 4473 all your guns.

When you put it that way, it makes a more sense. Thanks

Does anyone so paranoid to do this actually believe that your name will truly come off a list? At best it’s just going onto a different list.

This is completely inaccurate. Please consult an FFL and/or a lawyer.

YOU made the statement, so please explain yourself. My uncle retired from the ATF and he actually said this would work although he is firmly against it as a former ATF agent and would be extremely pissed if he knew I posted this.

As an FFL, the FBI does not collect firearm data like make, model or SN when completing the 4473. The 4473 containing the information relating to the firearm in question lives in my file cabinet and my A&D log only. The FBI only knows what general type of firearm was purchased unless the ATF conducts a trace of paper records by visiting the selling FFL. If this is happening, they’ll be visiting you too as the last documented purchaser in part of the chain of custody. If and when the 4473 is required to be maintain electronically, you may be onto something.

My uncle, the retired ATF agent says that their computer network automatically updates itself every time a registered firearm changes hands. The emphasis is focused on the location of the gun by it's serial number. The ATF is the "MDA" (master database administrator) and it is their database that is shared with DHS, FBI, and DoJ, who do not keep their own records, but use "watch-lists" based on the ATF master database.

Yes. The Serial number and last location sold. They have to contact that location to discover who the purchaser was. This is by design to ensure they don’t have a database of owners. You can be sure that if mass confiscations started happening all records would be lost in an unfortunate fire.

Yeah, my uncle say the ATF is compelled by federal law to track the "Current location and owner of the firearm" and cannot keep records on former owners past 1 year. But the history is kept in paper form by the original FFL so if there is some incident, the ATF will have access to original sale info (at the FFL location) and the current owner only.

Your uncle is verifiably wrong

By your opinion? I think not.

😂 The nature of verifiably is opinions not needed.

It’s clear you’d like to invest in a 100% privacy guaranteed corporation that helps you build massive wealth. Are you in?

Good point, (if it were true) but let me ask you something... If your uncle has done the same job for 22 years (hunting down illegal automatic weapons) and he never once lied to you growing up and as an adult, wouldn't you believe him? I have no reason to think he has ever been less than honest with me. I also think I have nothing to lose (except my guns) by following the advice of "General Jackson" and then I will ask my uncle (6 months from now) to have one of his old pals to check on who own the Sig i "sold" . I am curious about pawn shops though and wonder if they also use/keep 4473s or a different form? I don't want to ask my uncle now because he will figure out I am up to something with my guns.

My uncle has made many people millionaires. He has limited availability in the business and is offering it. He has never lied to me. Are you in?

Hardly the same comparison. This dude has no reason to lie to us and I thank him for giving us a heads up.

Let me demonstrate in perhaps the simplest way. Ask your uncle to tell you who owns the gun with the serial number R306805… post the name here.

That’s not evening 100% correct- When a gun is made it is known by ATF

If they want to find a gun- they have to ask: “Hey manufacturer- where did you sent this serial number” “Hey distributor, where did you send this serial number” “Hey gun store where did you send this serial number”

Edit- this is in reference to OP, not the comment above

Nobody disagrees with your statement. But current laws only require the ATF to keep infornation about the original buyer and the "current location and owner of the gun according to it's serial number" This is WHERE they will look for that gun. Got it?

What "current law" requires anything like that?

I can’t tell anymore. Are you just trolling?

You are correct. I should have talked about the trace. They know origin and have to trace it from there to last place sold.

Sorry, I meant to show OP was wrong, not you.

No problem. I still should have expanded on how traces work.

This would not accomplish anything since the 4473 forms are not mailed in. They are kept by the FFLs. The ATF maintains an electronic version of the data in a different format.

Your uncle is full of shit.

There is no direct serial number submitted to ATF (except for NFA items requiring a Tax Stamp) when a 4473 background check is run, they just note Handgun / Long Gun / Other.

The way a firearms trace works is they find a gun at a crime scene, they ask the manufacturer which distributor that serial number was sold to, then that distributor which FFL / dealer it was sold to, and then finally the point of sale dealer who in the public it was sold to. The dealer looks in his bound records book when that firearm serial came in and when it left, and finds the 4473 background check form that was filled out. The dealer then gives the name / address / contact info for that specific form, and that specific form alone.

At no time does the dealer submit the serial number to ATF, the ATF follows the chain of custody for the serial number of interest.

Source: FFL clerk for 7+ years.

As a FFL we can also confirm most of this is wrong. The 4473 never leaves our store except in a direct request of name and serial number

You are the one claiming stupid mickey mouse games will magically remove your info from various federal databases - YOU PROVE IT

You will prove it for us when they knock on your door and not mine. You obviously did not read the explanation of how ATF records, by law, MUST update their records to keep track of the guns "current location and owner".

they will definitely knock on your door now because you just posted online that you plan on trying to use loopholes to make them think that you don't have access to these guns and then in the next sentence you say that youll be the one hiding them. If you are going to do something like this, keep your mouth shut and dont post it on reddit where there are actual federal agents that take notes on legal loopholes that get posted.

They don’t, you don’t understand how the firearms trace system works. I have worked in the firearms industry, you clearly have not.

Please stop spreading misinformation bullshit.

TL:DR; You are making the claims, you prove you aren’t full of shit

It is absolutely fucking hilarious how right wingers are irrationally skeptical of credibly sourced journalism but then will, without question, completely believe "user General Jackson on rumble.com"

This is confirmation bias, this is why critical thinking skills are valuable. There are half a billion guns in America, confiscation will never happen. Why are you even scared, we have half a billion guns.

Maybe you should step out of your echo chamber and choose to live unafraid.

Lol $9k rookie numbers, confiscation will never happen. The 4 boxes of liberty.

$9,000 of legal guns

Those are rookie numbers, you gotta pump those numbers up.

This is completely inaccurate in so many ways. Good try, though.

My Grandma will gladly let me keep my guitar case in her attic.

lol and now you posted publicly for the world to see where your guns are gonna be hiding. Big brain move here buddy

I am posting through TOR so who am to you or the ATF? - someone in Denmark today and in Malaysia tomorrow. You need to spend some time browsing at r/privacyselfdefense.

as long as u feel safe.

FFL in Wisconsin. 4473’s don’t get turned in to anyone. They sit at my shop. So there is no place for a private individual to submit a 4473. Your local PD will be zero help.

Sadly, they aren't dumb, deaf, or blind. They see your internet history, your credit card info, your cell information, etc. They know exactly what you have and when you have it. "But i got this gun in a private sale in a denny's parking lot". Unless you messaged the seller via carrier pigeon, they have the transcripts, his listing, where y'all met via cell pinging. They might not know what exact guns you have in possession, but they'll always know that you're armed unless you're totally off the grid. In the information age, it will be much more difficult to hide stuff like that in the upcoming years. Hiding them and telling cops "I don't own any guns" will not stop them from entering your home. All im saying is, when they make shit illegal out of nowhere, like that semi auto AA-12 a few years ago, they knew exactly who bought every single one of them, even after some of the owners had sold theirs. The few hundred that made it to the public hands all got confiscated

When they are tracking down guns for a mass confiscation, they are not looking for credit card data - they will be using an ATF or DHS print-out. If they have registration forms that say an AR15 with serial number XXXXX is at a current address of 123 Main Street in Boise, ID, that is where they are going to grab it, no matter who lives there now. If it is the last "current owner" on file THAT is where they are going unless they have some informant that says otherwise.

maybe during the katrina confiscations, but they're using digital data to confiscate guns for the past 5 years. Its the digital age, the atf is trying to move past paper efile forms altogether. In 5 more years they will not be using paper copies.

That's why we must enforce our legal right to stay off illegal databases.

TL;DR - OP’s restatement of someone else’s post is full of wrong information.

Wow…so much is wrong here. It’s like several different high schoolers from various countries got together and tried to come up with a list of ways to hide firearm ownership…and none of them were very good.

ATF’s “gun database” isn’t much of a database. It is working off of records that are often years old. Unless it’s a multiple handgun sale, the 4473 isn’t sent to ATF after the transaction. It’s retained by the FFL for 20 years. It only goes to ATF when the FFL goes out of business. Imagine being asked today to make a list of the Beatles, but you have to work off a list that was put together in 1972. You’d say, John, Ringo, George, and Paul, and you’d be 1/2 wrong out of the gate, and all wrong in the end since they don’t exist anymore.

ATF’s trace gets them to the first, retail purchaser. That’s it. Unless that person knows who they sold it to, the trace ends there. If the person does know, it’s lather, rinse, repeat - go to that person and ask where the gun went. Options - It was stolen. I sold it. I lost it. It was damaged. Sorry, that person is dead and I have no idea what you’re talking about. Wrong address. Wrong person.

All of that assumes that the FFL kept good records and turned them in as required. If that didn’t happen, then ATF’s trace ends at the FFL. FFLs die and their family doesn’t turn in records. FFLs just don’t turn in records. FFLs don’t pay rent and their landlord locks them out of the shop and tosses their crap in the dumpster. FFL’s spouses toss them out and their records go in the trash. Shops burn, get flooded, tornadoes hit…there are a lot of records that don’t go back to ATF for a lot of reasons. So, the database is incomplete from the start.

“I don’t own any guns…” As if during some apocalyptic scenario (I am assuming this is when Uncle Sam would be going door to door to check on firearm possession) a government official would care what you said. If TSHTF, then the majority of government workers are going to be home taking care of their own families, not knocking on doors asking, “Any firearms? No? Okay. Have a good day.” Neeext. If they are knocking, then the 4A isn’t gonna keep them from walking in and looking around your underwear drawer. A “these firearms are no longer my responsibility” ain’t workin’.

Okay, say it’s not apocalyptic. I’ll bite. Congress is able to get a federal law passed that says only a Colt Model 1848 is a lawful handgun. Anything else is illegal and you need to turn in your firearms, now. That assumed it’s upheld by SCOTUS. If so, then that’s the law. Gather ‘em up, boys…SCOTUS has spoken.

Why would they start with ATF’s old, crappy, purposefully designed to be hard to search list (other than the NFRTR)? Why get an outdated and incomplete list? Why not just go to the local FFLs and pull their more up to date records? Why not pull the records of concealed carry permits? Why not just ask people in the community who has a gun and get near, real-time intel? Why bother with ATF’s outdated data (other than the NFRTR), where you’ll spin your wheels and get little to no traction? Because the 4373 shows a transaction of a private gun sale?

The 4473 is an Over The Counter form, not a private sales form. ATF isn’t taking that form from a non-FFL. ATF’s own procedures say that private sales facilitated by an FFL are to let the FFL take in the firearm to their A&D, then have the purchaser do a 4473 with NICS or equivalent, and then record the purchase in their (the FFLs records). See here. The 4473 still stays at the FFL (unless it’s a multiple handgun sale) until the FFL goes out of business. ATF isn’t updating any records when they get a 4473 from some citizen saying they were sold to my dying uncle in Brazil. That forms gonna get sent back or trashed.

To recap - There’s a LOT of good info available on ATF’s website as to how firearms are traced and accounted for, and how transactions are governed.

There’s a lot of info available on reputable websites on similar topics, so you can get an “other than the government” take.

Me thinks you are one of those people who knows everything about everything and always tries to impress people with their false knowledge. My uncle was an ATF agent for 22 years and I will take his word over yours 24/7/365.

Says the guy who’s listening to a guy who takes gun advice from his ATF agent uncle. Gotcha.

Is there a better source than a relative who worked as an ATF agent for 22 years? If so, bring them here to post.

Literally *any* FFL.

I bought all of my guns locally at a gun shop. But that was 20 years ago and I never once thought that one day Big Brother would coming to take them away from me, But time have sure changed and sometimes I wonder what country we're living in today!

After reading all these comments I have decided that I am not prepared to give up my guns because one citizen in his golden years has some crazy agenda. I will give this tip a go because I have a bad feeling we will be needing our guns sooner than later.

BTW... I just read this other post that I wish I had known about 20 years ago. But I think it is something we should all pass on to our kids and grandkids before they buy their first gun. https://www.reddit.com/r/PrivacySelfDefense/comments/sx47b5/before_you_buy_a_legal_gun_for_any_purpose_read/

Lastly, it looks like someone has unleashed one of those down-vote bots here because about 30 minutes ago, there were 181 likes and now 0. I think this may be my last post on Reddit. I am not a fan of censorship.

How legal gun owners can remove their personal data from the databases and "watch-lists" of ATF, DOJ, DHS, and FBI within 30 days...

Comments (81)

I am posting through TOR so who am to you or the ATF? - someone in Denmark today and in Malaysia tomorrow. You need to spend some time browsing at r/privacyselfdefense.

Me thinks you are one of those people who knows everything about everything and always tries to impress people with their false knowledge. My uncle was an ATF agent for 22 years and I will take his word over yours 24/7/365.