South Sudan: inflation skyrockets
Venezuela: Huh, that's cute, now watch this.
South Sudan: inflation skyrockets
Venezuela: Huh, that's cute, now watch this.
Venezuela: How many layers of inflation are you on?
South Sudan: Like, maybe 200 or 300% my dude
Venezuela: You are like a little baby, watch this
I made it, since I have too much free time right now.
[deleted]
They already have.
InfLaTiOn hApPEnZ bEcUZ oF cApiTAliST spEcUlaToRS
o damn i should have known it was the speculators up to there old tricks again
It's those devious (((SpEcUlAtOrS))) again up to their OLD TRICKS, of... speculation.
Here's the translation, "People stopped giving us money."
BuT thE SaNcTionS
bUT dA CiA!
We should invade them and give em this super size freedom energy
Yes, Venezuela has a problem with poor management of a crisis based in oil prices which made the Venezuelan oil too expensive to extract making their #1 asset null. So they are spiraling from a rich SA country to a poor one.
But ban me, whatever. Atleast you can keep pulling your hogs over this while every neolib construction in the west falls either to socialism or to overt fascism over the next 20 years. And if Beto is the nominee Trump will win.
Venezuela crisis started before the oil price crash but nice try
It did but it wasn't nearly as severe, and Im not gonna defend the Chavez/Maduro government in spite of their human rights issues and of economic mismanagement. But the whole Venzuela bad = Socialism bad is getting on my nerves, especially since Venezuela is less socialist than Norway. But im sure that when the CIA installs a right wing Junta to allow for foreign investment Venezuela will be rich and happy again.
Your world order is coming to an end. The question that remains is what will replace it. And the way things are headed right now fascism seems way stronger.
They'd defend a country built on a colonial economy, which only ever had half the state ownership of Norway?
edit: Banned from neoliberal! I might as well take the mask off. Your entire ideology is an astroturfed attempt to rebrand libertarianism. Same crooks, same plutocrats, new packaging:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughLibertarianSpam/comments/apz62i/libertarian_wonks_rebranding_themselves_as/
Ladies & Gentlemen.... we got em
Hrm yes the socialism, something liberals were always concerned about.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/what-socialism-private-sector-still-dominates-venezuelan-economy-despite-chavez-crusade
edit: Banned so I can't reply.
As Fox displays above, socialism is an excuse when things go south.
Also this sub was astroturfed by think tanks as a shallow rebranding of libertarianism. Same tycoons, same shills: https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughLibertarianSpam/comments/apz62i/libertarian_wonks_rebranding_themselves_as/
edit2: Here's the ban message,
https://i.imgur.com/0vFtw4f.png
Did you read the article? Firstly its nearly 9 years old so most likely out of date, and secondly pretty much talks about how bad state-run businesses are doing by being ran below production while hiring even more workers.
Are you seriously using a 9 year old fox news link to argue?
Like, have some fucking self respect.
To be fair, a terrible idea like socialism doesn't simply become viable in 9 years, 90 years, or 190 years.
Were you actually banned, what's the reason given?
110% chance they are claiming to be ābannedā because the anti-spam and anti shitpost features of Reddit limit your comment rate to once per 10 minutes once you get enough downvotes in a particular sub. They arenāt banned, they are just only allowed to post moderately coherent responses they have had 10 minutes to reconsider, which may well be interpreted as outright banning by those without any.
CTH brigaders are banned on sight; we have to ban dozens every week. The ban can be revoked if they message the mod team and plead their case; typically if they approach us in good faith and explain they're not brigading we unban them, but most of the time they call us ableist slurs.
And to clarify, all brigaders are banned on sight, it's just more noticeable in the case of CTH because a) they link to our threads and brigade our subreddit quite frequently, and b) it's extremely clear that they're brigading and not here in good faith when 99% of their comments are in CTH and they have only a couple comments in /r/neoliberal. People with clear user history in this subreddit have no action taken against them unless they violate another of our rules.
No way were you banned for this.
Also this sub was astroturfed by think tanks
lol you don't even know what astroturfing is
Well I don't think you should be banned tbh
like absolute clockwork
So Norway is more socialist because it's better at capitalism. Cool.
lmao owned
So which is it, Venezuela isn't socialist, or intervention against Venezuela is an attack on socialism?
peoplespolicyproject
lmao
Your entire ideology is an astroturfed attempt to rebrand libertarianism. Same crooks, same plutocrats, new packaging
Libertarians are terrible. The idea that predatory monopolies and oligopolies can be a natural part of a "free market" as long as they're privately owned is incredibly stupid and gives capitalism a bad name. Likewise, supply-side economics never works and thus I support some government control over healthcare, education, etc. in order to both help the less fortunate and structurally disadvantaged and make the market function better. If libertarian economic policies are taken to their most radical ends, they will eventually lead to illiberal hierarchical social and economic structures that are indistinguishable from fascism or feudalism. I'm not a dirty libertarian.
At the same time ... as shown by places such as Venezuela and the USSR, too much government intervention leads to those same illiberal outcomes because two inevitable results of enormous wealth distribution are out-of-control inflation and a need to find order in an "equal" society (sometimes combined with unrest in society over people having near-identical economic outcomes regardless of the quality of their work). These results merge and create an opening for power-hungry strongmen, and that is where we get the Lenins of the world.
Socialism, fascism, libertarianism, and anarchy all create either too much order or too much chaos and produce the same illiberal outcomes and often in very short time. They're all horrible.
And yes, Norway works quite well as a country -- but that's because although I don't agree with everything Norway does, it has struck an acceptable balance between government and private control that, for the most part, makes those illiberal outcomes unlikely and creates a good quality of life for all, while not disincentivizing work.
Libertarians hate monopolies just as much as the next guy, we argue that monopolies arenāt natural, and that without government monopolies would never form. In most cases deregulation would get rid of monopolies, in a select few cases we canāt/shouldnāt deregulate and then we should have anti-trust type laws
Natural monopolies are endemic to the capitalist mode of production.
The straw men are incredible here.
Most libertarians aren't anarcho-libertarians tbh. This poll had over 8000 responders with almost 30% self-indentifying as at least somewhat libertarian and the results go into some depth over what they actually believe. The link goes directly to a comment discussing the libertarian section of the poll, and most want just a slightly less regulated market economy, with some laws against things like monopolies.
Slatestarcodex doesnt exactly represent your average libertarian though, does it?
mods pls unban this poster we need a free marketplace of ideas
also its ableist to discriminate against the cognitively impaired were better than that here
just because we're a bunch of stuffy academic losers who've isolated ourselves from the rest of humanity doesn't mean this place is "astroturfed" š¤ you gotta be more precise with your wording
Slight correction, the term you're looking for is "People of Means"
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I don't know why people are downvoting you
According to [this article by Bloomberg] (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_tlrEoORtdLc/S75ztK53eWI/AAAAAAAAA9c/j0IluF2SW0o/s1600/New-Image-bum2web.jpg), there are a few advantages to state ownership.
Because state ownership in and of itself isn't the reason Venezuela is so absolutely fucked.
Then why keep memeing about socialism if you admit it wasn't the only problem?
I've never made a meme in my life, but I suppose Corbyn and Sanders talking about Venezuela like it was a socialist paradise while Chavez was actively mortgaging Venezuela's future has something to do with it. Also, some of the other things to blame are still really bad interventionist policies that you might label socialism. Also, if you are selling socialism and you can't tell the difference between the ideal socialist society and a rentier state, you're a good damned charlatan. So mainly in response to Sanders and Corbyn.
Fair
Venezuela had a large publicly-owned oil company, PDVSA, since the 1980s. Many countries do. Venezuela differs in that when Chavez was elected, he set out stripping funding from PDVSA so they couldn't reinvest in maintaining oil production. When the workers and managers protested, he fired the massive bulk of their administration and a lot of their technical expertise promptly went down the drain. Chavez then continued to take money away from the country's main source of income in favour of social works projects that could not replace the oil money. Nowadays the main source of income for Venezuela is those multinational oil corporations who stuck around (plenty others left entirely due to how hostile a business environment Venezuela is now). PDVSA's oil production has totally collapsed due to this politically-motivated mismanagement.
In this context I would say that socialist demagoguery was in fact what killed the Venezuelan economy.
state ownership can be ok
so then you admit you actually love socialism š¤
socialism_is_when_the_government_does_things.pdf
lmao just stop
Obvious Chapo is obvious Chapo.
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Your entire ideology is an astroturfed attempt to rebrand libertarianism. Same crooks, same plutocrats, new packaging:
Libertarianism
We actually like having free parks, roads, fire fighters that don't haggle over price while our houses burn down, and police that don't have to operate their cop cars like a coin op laundromat. Most neo-liberals agree that it's simply bad economics for the US to persist without some form of universal health care, while we vary on gun rights we usually agree that fewer would be better (I don't, I think everything should be a gun).
Like, even a basic libertarian would not get along well here.
Lol you so dumb
Your entire ideology is an astroturfed attempt to rebrand libertarianism
Libertarianism is only a few regulations and laws away from being perfect, so I'd say that's a good thing! Also it's become a bit of a dirty word and co-opted by crazy people and the far right, so it could use a bit of rebranding.
I guess if you totally ignore the braindead isolationism and nauseating abundance of economic heterodoxy this could be true.
UN Flair
Libertarian
exblain?
Free movement is one of the most important human rights. And looking at something like the EU (even though it isn't exactly a libertarian paradise), taking steps towards globalization seems like a great way to achieve open borders. So let's do that, but with the whole world.
Unless there's a better globalist shill flair. I thought about the blue globe, but flags are fun! And if you thought libertarians can't be globalist shills, well that's why we need to rebrand! All of /r/Libertarian seems to have abandoned our lord and savior Milty š
Honestly, this is something that people tend to forget about Venezuela. The inflation problems aren't particularly new. They've been among the worst in the world for a long time stemming from systemic mismanagement
The damage to the economy being done is nothing new, it's just the fact that it absolutely exploded in the last couple years that really draws attention to how bad things have gotten in the country.
I rememeber Runescape players going out of their mind angry that Venezuelans were mining gold in their game and creating digital inflation all because the runescape gold was more stable than their actual cash.
Most people I've seen on the r/2007Scape sub have actually supported the Venezuelans feeding their famillies through the game
The people supporting them didnt really do much because they wanted to leave them alone. It was those who didnt leave them alone that did most of the action.
Haven't seen a lot of oposition lately at all, but on the other hand my comment that their lives are less important than some guy's ingame wealth got a shitton of upvotes. Idk about the sentiment when it started, as I didn't frequent the sub, but as it is right now people understand the importance of them farming gold ingame.
So yea ok TODAY when the country is a literal shitshow the world moght be more understanding. Irc 2 years ago when it became "a thing" a lot of players were annoyed. Also note that this is the same community that lost it shit because of a rainbow.
Yeah, that's usually the case. Before people form an opinion they're usually against it if it's not in their personal interest, see global warming.
Alot of people are sympathetic to our 'Vennies', the items they gold farm are actually pretty high in demand, and them farming them keep prices low for what are otherwise two of the most expensive skills in the game. Some people are angry over it, sure. But alot of people understand this is their livelihood.
Oofta
[deleted]
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/9r1xmr/this_is_how_a_venezuelan_goldfarmer_looks_like/
I mean if someone wrote an article Id be surprised but otherwise its more of a mish mash of reddit threads
Tons of reddit socialists that think Venezuelaās problems are attributed to us sanctions, āitās the US imperialists fault!ā, just like Maduro himself claims, not realizing the Venezuelan economy has been systemically fucked for a decade now.
Even in 2008, there were articles from economists saying the bolivarian revolution isnāt sustainable and that many indicators show a bleak future for the country unless they turned it around. On mobile so I canāt link right now.
It was fairly clear how Chavez's little experiment was likely to end even before 2008; and it was just a matter of time before the regime exhausted the capacity of oil revenues to sustain it. The only real surprise has been just how effectively the regime has been able to cannibalize the entire economy in order to remain in power.
I'm late but can you link now
Yeah I met a guy from there back in 2014 and he said it was a disaster.
I think the currency has been pretty much worthless for a year now. There's no point in trying to track a currency that almost nobody uses.
[deleted]
Can't say he was wrong though. With inflation rates this high, everyone can become a millionaire.
I thought he hated millionaires and billionaires tho.
Slight correction, the term you're looking for is "People of Means"
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Fuck Howard Schultz
all too often, those who preach love are answered with hate šā the people of means stand with shultz!
what happened to him anyway, i feel like people shit on him so hard and fast that he just evaporated off of the planet
By deffending the regime, he seems to hate Venezuelans as well, so there is no contradiction
everyone can become a millionaire
i just hope we make them pay there fair share
who said it and when?
The saint himself
According to the link below, it was a newspaper editorial board in an editorial that Sanders posted to his website. So not a Sanders quote, but perhaps an implicit endorsement of the idea.
There is no primary source for this statement and It's not clear who first came up with it but it gets attributed to Bernie Sanders to make him sound ridiculous.
Edit: It seems like I've been misled.
By: Valley News Editorial Board
and the link in the article to the source on the Valley News website is dead.
Sanders did retweet the entire article in 2011 but he didn't write it himself.
Good point, I did not know that. He retweeted it, but it doesn't seem like he wrote it himself.
!ping WEEBS because why not
Edit: Not working? Meh
I think the ping has to be on a separate line for itself to work.
!ping WEEBS
Edit: nvm ping bot ded
Pingbot is now back in commission after being disciplined harshly for its insubordination.
!ping WEEBS
Pinged members of WEEBS group.
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Damn straight. Don't let me catch you slacking on the job again or I'll run you on Windows XP.
your summons have been answered, master.
Are you subscribed to the WEEBS group? You can only ping if you are.
I am, yes.
~owen Wilson voice~
Wow
From my understanding, the reason inflation skyrockets in some of these counties is because their corrupt governments decide to print a bunch of money, as it's an easy way to reduce their massive debt burdens. Is this generally correct?
Thatās basically it.
The government needs money to buy and pay for stuff and just fires up the printing presses.
Itās not the only way inflation happens (fractional reserve banking) but in cases like this is usually the culprit.
They should have MMT it instead
āMagical money theoryā?
Magic Money Tree
My Mommy Toldmeprintingmoneyhasnoconsequences
Can you explain this a bit? My impression of MMT is that the main claim is that any government debt equivalent to printing money, not that printing money can't cause bad outcomes.
[deleted]
(MMT) doesn't work
You could have stopped there.
Well I mean thatās exactly how it already works here in the US.
[deleted]
I do like your reference. But I wish people were actually interested in a discussion.
The main indicator in good āMMTā policy is inflation rather than deficit, so the idea is that you can spend into deficit until the point that the inflation rate is unacceptable.
This is exactly where MMT falls off the rails. Countries which get addicted to deficit spending are exactly the countries incapable of stopping their deficit spending when inflation rises.
I wonder how long the US can maintain deficit spending?
The house of cards would have collapsed a while back for us if we weren't the world's reserve currency. If other international actors ever establish an alternate reserve currency, our situation will be much more tenuous.
Is this because it makes US treasury bonds more attractive to foreign buyers?
Itās not the only way inflation happens (fractional reserve banking)
Oi, what's all this then?
You got a license for that Austrianism?
Monetary policy could not have saved Venezeula. If prices are inflating, you want to hold onto what real wealth there is for dear life because its value is skyrocketing. In order to encourage buying bonds, you would have to set The Interest Rates at something like 10,000%, which is just inflation with extra steps. The only way out of inflation would be to create a massive surplus in the process of net money destruction, taxing way way more than you spend. So, instead of prices increasing by 10, your income decreases to 1/10th. Either way, you are fucked, the only difference is how many zeros that reality is communicated to you in.
In the short run. If the currency craters the debt to GDP ratio can get silly when you can only borrow in foreign currency and GDP falls.
From my understanding, the reason inflation skyrockets in some of these counties is because their corrupt governments decide to print a bunch of money, as it's an easy way to reduce their massive debt burdens. Is this generally correct?
No. It's a way to massively redefine debt burdens, especially when they cannot collect taxes as fast as they want to. Venezuela cannot get rid of the debt burdens that actually matter through monetary policy, namely, the ones denominated in U.S. Dollars, and which cause them to export a vast majority of their wealth to pay off those external debts denominated in Dollars, since they cannot print U.S. Dollars. At the end of the day, the main problem in Venezeula is that they cannot get the goods and services they need to survive, and what they do sell is going to pay down massive debts. Hyperinflation is the worst way to deal with this problem because of the chaos it causes in trying to understand what prices mean in relation to your income, but even the most "stable" response you could possibly have to this would still be pretty bad too: Taxing the ever living fuck out of your society. Either your after tax income goes down by 90% but prices stay the same, or your after tax income goes up by 100,000% but prices go up by 1,000,000%. Either way, you are still starving, the only difference is that the former would save you having to use a calculator before truly realizing you are fucked.
It's usually because of currency pegs and/or foreign denominated debt.
Yep, but the increased inflation can be viewed as a form of payment as you cannot āeraseā debt without erasing wealth. In fact, itās borderline (if not outright) theft.
[deleted]
. . . . for it's crimes against humanity.
Good to know ukraine finally got it under control. I went there in 2015 and was able to survive on like $10 a day.
Yeah, the whole Maiden Revolution, new government, civil war in Donbass, an undeclared war on Donbass with Russia, losing Crimea and now having their ports economical worth threatened...
Its a lot to deal with. Plus it has endemic corruption issuies
Maiden revolution
YOU'LL TAKE MY LIFE BUT I'LL TAKE YOURS TOO
YOU'LL FIRE YOUR MUSKET BUT I'LL RUN YOU THROUGH
Saving this to link to MMT radicalists
Venezuela dorifto
(original meme title)
Huh... That's not so bad after all, I mean they're not even OH FUCK
r/dataisbeautiful
Plus Ultra!
Is this a CIA plot?
No, it's a CIA graph.
š³š”
Āæ???????? Where's Argentina?
Probably something about the manipulation of statistics. The previous government had a special relationship with reality.
Yes, they used to manipulate all data until 2015. They even said we had less poverty than Germany (5% lol). The funny thing about inflation is that they left most products out of the ecuation because āpeople wonāt buy them cause they are expensive nowā
And then there is the meme policy of Big Mac's price controls.
Did they really put price controls on big macs so they wouldn't have inflation reflected in the big mac index?
Yup. They believed that everyone was dumb because they lived in their own leftoid bubble.
Holy shit they literally put controls on Big Macs to dodge the Economist Big Mac Index specifically.
Is it humanly possible to be that stupid?
price controls on big macs
H O L D D A F U C C U P
You see it towards the end. I was looking for it too, another failure down to an overbearing and economically illiterate government.
"No, stop it Venezuela! If you do this now it will drain away all the worth you have left in your currency! And I think you need every percent of it as it is!"
Communism has been achieved; money has been abolished. Today is a good day for Venezuela, comrades!
MMT in action folks!
Came here to post this.
Whoa, One million plus inflation rate?
...O_O
Yep
Maduro also pegged the exchange rate which if you understand the economics of the concept is an utterly terrible stupid idea.
/u/YangZD
So this is what Ultra Inflation feels like.
Does anyone know what tool is used to produce these kind of visualizations? I know they'd go crazy for something like this at work.
Do a chart comparing 2008, Zimbabwe should "perform"
u/yangZD
Sometimes I wish there was a God of Sorting People who sorts people into countries based on their political opinions. So the Venezuelans who fled Venezuela can live in a free country and tankies can go live under Maduro.
This is the greatest meme I've ever seen on this sub.
Its certainly in my top 10.
DO YOU LIKE
MY ECONOMY
GAS GAS GAS
GOTTA STEP ON THE GAS
Sound warning
no
Mate... my ears... kinda loved it and hated it at the same time.
Venezuela is uniquely disfunctional
How did you make the visualisation?
Wasn't me, it's the user in the video, /u/YangZD
Oh, I am so proud of my Belarus to be first at something for sometime other than alcohol consumption.
Pretty sure Russia still beats you on alcohol consumption
Not even close. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/who-drinks-the-most-alcohol-consumption-by-country.html
Your next line will be, "Capitalist sanctions did this"!
How was this made? I'd love to see the post-colonial countries compared during the 1960s.
Edit: did some digging and found the original. It's made by a YouTube account called LivelyData https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPha_O5xluViipfCHXdDnLg. I've subscribed and I look forward to seeing more. Until then, I guess I'm just going to use the IMF data mapper https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDP_RPCH@WEO/OEMDC/ADVEC/WEOWORLD
Socialisms effects on Venezualas currency are similar to losing a world wars efffects on the German Mark after WW1...Literally being blamed and having to pay all the WW1 countries war expenses for WW1 is as bad as letting Maduro or Chavez run a top down socialist government. Great job team.
What a magnificent statistic of RuneScape gold farmers
Market solution strikes once more
Why isnāt Cuba on the list?
Cuba has pegged their currency to the dollar for stability. Actually, they have two currencies, one for tourists which is pegged and one for residents that trades to it in a stable range. Regardless, they arenāt using inflationary monetary policies (currently), so they arenāt experiencing rabid inflation that would get them on this chart.
Millions can be worth near nothing in weeks
Wrong soundtrack. Here
Alright boys, how do we short this?
To boldly go where no man has gone before
u/YangZD
Gotta love some good old fashion hyper inflation.
solution: blame the CIA
Jeeeeezus I knew it was bad but not damn
To infinity and beyond!
r/masterforgiveme
/u/vreddit_bot
It was suspended for some reason
Holy shit this is amazing š
Zimbabwe is still the king of inflation.
r/dataisbeautiful
Does any one have a mirror of this
Huh so this is the power of ultra-inflation
u/vredditdownloader
see this Lisa, you could pinpoint the second Venezuela implemented socialism!..
nnnnnn-now!
dear libtards
vuvuzela
bottom text
post hog
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That's not your hog silly
Post hog
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what part of 'my massive girl hog' don't u understand
That's someone else's hog, reverse searched. Being a mtf woman myself, I'm quite impressed but still:
Post hog.
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and here I thought every mtf on reddit was an anarchist
Bitch, I'm so anarchist that I don't even follow the near universal tendency for MtFs to be anarchist.
You're not even fucking close to my level.
Guess you better "GAS! GAS! GAS!"
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Post breadline
Money = evil. Fiat currency is the root cause of hyper inflation. Gadhafi would been a hero of humanity but the true evil behind fiat currency killed him.
did a child write this
Post breadline
neoliberalism is evil
but this is hilarious
did a child write this
yes
Post breadline
"Not bad, Sudan, you made me use 5% of my inflation rate"
Venezuela, praying to Karl Marx: "Master, forgive me, but I'll have to go all out ... just this once."
Yeah people only figure out you can't eat das kapital after their done reading it and its enacted
Just give people enzymes to digest cellulose and voila, it's time to eat the Marx!
Iāve come to believe socialism has more in common with a religion than it does with an economic theory.
Or realize how devestating sanctions and economic isolation can be on a country
Except that's not what's been going on with Venezuela at all. Their economy was on this trajectory long before sanctions expanded beyond a handful of individual kleptocrats, all while their major trading partners (including the US) kept on trading with them. Maybe if you were talking about Iran or Russia you would have a point ( a shitty one but still,) but Venezuela is in a disaster entirely of the PSUV's own making.
Do you have a source?
The current post here is a source, you see that inflation (and shortages) started going hard on 2008 and sanctions started in 2015, that is, 7 years later.
edit: also, as you see 2017 is when inflation went super high, and that's the year Maduro create the "asamblea nacional constituyente" by force and pointing a finger and ignored all the original "asamblea nacional" said that people choose by vote.
The first economic sanctions against Venezuela were imposed by the US on August 25th, 2017. All previous sanctions were on specific individuals rather than Venezuela as a whole. You can review this here. As the original post of this thread shows, though inflation has more recently taken on a frighteningly exponential quality, it had been amongst the highest rate in the world well before any broader national sanctions were imposed. Additionally, shortages of key products date back even further, to the middle of Chavez's tenure, as seen here.
This article is a good overview of the specific economic history of Venezuela, the policies implemented by Chavez and Maduro, and why their actions are the primary cause of Venezuela's current crisis.
Thanks. That "VZN problems are US sanctions fault" meme is complete nonsense and has to stop.
VZN crisis started a full 3 years before sanctions
It can be. Notably less devastating than turning the printing press to 11 though.
The economic sanctions started near the end of 2017. How do you explain anything before it?
True, but we're talking about Venezuela
1) US sanctions primarily target Venezuala's elites
2) Sanctions aren't magic. US isn't the only country in the world.
It was significantly less than even 1% of it by the end.