Bring Hook 1.0 back
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r/Overwatchu/technog2 (19519)

Comments (526)

Patch Notes

Roadhog

-Roadhog’s hook is now once again able to travel the same space-time corridor as Sombra’s Translocator and Symmetra’s Teleporter

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Except PoTG would just be DVa out of mech.

That would make it even better. You would see the bomb and no people around and think "the hell?" then all the sudden a little hook comes out of nowhere and rips the bomb to another dimension, then all the sudden 4 kills.

Yes that all sounds very interesting and intricate but can we just have symmetra teleport an enemy diva bomb away from own team.

Just imagine if a system saw an enemy sym television and set up hers right on the enemy one and as soon as the bomb comes through it goes right back and counts as a deflect and Kills them all! I would actually kneel down to a sym that would pull that off.

Lol *sombra not system damn autocorrect.

That would actually be awesome

You would be able to hook people into your spawn, that would be unfair. As they then can't get out

You can't place teleporter inside your spawn. And you can't place a teleporter while inside your spawn. Both ends have to be outside spawn to place a teleporter

I would really love if the teleporters just acted as a portal, displaying the visuals from the other exit at the same angle and transporting any entities (or vectors) that enter either end out of the other automatically.

The problem with that is how horrifyingly taxing it is on your GPU. Maybe similar tech to nvidia’s RTX could do it.

Not really. That used to be the case early 2000,s but it’s just a matter of creating a second camera and rendering it onto the surface of the portal. Modern graphics engines can do that without missing a beat.

Creating a second camera is as computationally intense as creating the one you're looking through. Of course that's ignoring things like massively lowering the resoluton fo the teleporter camera, but that'd only go so far. Even with those Hanks if you had two syms place all four of their tps in small area, youd have a recursive clusterfuck and it'd tank any fps. Hell even if rendering two teles increased the GPU load by 33%, assuming a gpu bottleneck, it'd decrease fps by 25% and a single ability dropping my fps from 60-45 is unnaceptable. It's why the mirrors on Hollywood first don't actually reflect anything. Real time Ray+tracing rendering makes the marginal cost pretty low for reflections and the like because it's actually bouncing the photons all around so it doesn't need a second camera.

But the camera you are looking through isn’t computationally intense though. You’re imagining overwatch is this super high graphics game that strains graphics cards. Further the second camera can easily render lower resolution models that the texture of the teleported would mask. And it only has to render at a small resolution. No need for the second render to be 1080p.

You also avoid the 2 sym problem by only. Wing able to see through your teleporter. You can’t use enemy portals why would you see through them.

Are you kidding me? Any AAA video game today is computationally intense. You got anywhere between 7201280-38402160(1 million-8 million) pixels that have to be calculated anywhere from 30-144 times a second. You have thousands of triangles, shadows, particle effects galore moving light sources so many animation effects, gigabytes of textures(keep in mind a gigabyte is about 1000 books or a small library). Most practical software is far less computationally intense than video games. Business, even wealthy ones like banks, regularly keep mainframes from the 80's because they do everything needed. Complex math, like systems of differential equations, is less intense than videogames. Encrypting text to the point that its near unbreakable, e.g. RSA, happens so fast it might as well be instantaneous. Hell most operating systems have options to fully encrypt your harddrive, even IOS does this, because decrypting and encrypting data in real time is cheap enough relative to modern computers that people don't notice the delay. Overwatch is a highly intensive program even if you can run it on low settings and it'll still look pretty because even low-end computers today are stupidly fast.

Yeah I’m a hobby game dev and a software engineer. I’m aware. Those numbers and concerns all look staggering.

To a human.

GPU architectures are specifically designed to handle those problems. I promise you that overwatch is not gpu bottlenecked.

The case of a portal can avoid most of those problems by rendering a small texture 640x480 would be MORE than high enough resolution. You can save that resulting render in memory and only update it every other frame if you wanted to it’s a tiny render it doesn’t need to be as smooth. It can not render particles and dynamic light sources if it needs to. Not that it would need to because I promise you that even the consoles can handle this without serious problems. You can also toggle the effect on off for lower end devices. This isn’t an unknown problem. It’s been done before.

It's not that it's technically difficult, but in many cases it requires rendering two areas at once This of course is a heavy load on the GPU, even if it's not difficult for a graphics engine to do.

Not really. Especially not on a game like over watch that isn’t pushing the limits graphically. This used to be a problem. But modern graphics cards can handle it without issue.

Tell that to the people with iGPUs who struggle to get 30fps :)

the mirrors on hollywood aren't even real mirrors

Valve did it in 2007

in a single player game that is in a bunch of white rooms on a linear path. gonna be tough to apply that to overwatch

Correction also a multiplayer game, And in garysmod. Really source is just some magic shit

oh ok mb. maybe gabe is just a wizard

[deleted]

He always was a lazy wizard, now he's just rich enough to indulge his laziness.

tbf you don't get much motivation anymore once you get to the top.

^^^thoughthatdoesntmeanweshouldntgethalflife3plsandty

It wasn't hard for portal, and that was 10 years ago

Valve did it in 2007 ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Though in a multiplayer environment with a lot more going on than the Portal games I see your point

Rendering alternate cameras, e.g. portals cameras mirrors etc., is just as expensive as rendering what the player sees. Portal was designed with that in mind so that average computers of the time could run it at '120' fps w/o looking through portals and when you did your fps would 'half' to 60, but since your monitor was only display 60 you wouldn't notice. Real Time Ray Tracering based rendering, like rtx, significantly lowers the cost of thing like mirrors b/c rtrt bounces light particles throughout the map. Having them bounce eoff of a mirror or duplicate themselves through a portal is a relatively cheap task if you have rtrt going. Of course rtrt is really expensive on its own.

Umm, have you ever heard of Portal? That game came out years ago and I don't see it taxing any system. Maybe you've been drinking way too much RTX cool aid.

TLDR Wrong bitch, hardware solutions for Real Time Ray Tracing based rendering would make this possible for a game like Overwatch.

Rendering things like portals, cameras, mirrors etc. is simple, it's the exact same process as you do for rendering what the player sees. However it's a extremely fucking expensive because it's doing the rendering twice, once for the player and once for the object. Portal has very few variables that increase GPU load and are outside the developers controller. The player can't create any particle effects, there is only one player etc. Plus Portal very specifically minimizes the number of projects in each puzzle. In Overwatch you could have 12 Sombras stealthing and have a near zero GPU load or you could have 12 total mayhem Moira's spamming orbs, coalescences and piss cloads like there is no tomorrow, which would have an insane GPU load. Throw in four sym tps and you aren't increasing the GPU load by 10-15%, you're quadrupling it.

Real time Ray tracing, which Nvidia's rtx enables to a degree, makes the problem of second cameras/reflective surfaces, shadows etc. have a low marginal cost (if you can do rtrt, you get all that for free, but rtrt is hard). This is because RTRT bounces light particles throughout the map so having them bounce off of mirrors or through cameras etc. is cheap.

Wow, you too huh? That comment reads like an advert. Also, Overwatch isn't demanding in itself unless you are using decade old hardware or want to setup some ridiculous scenario like you mentioned using way out of control game rules. Also, also, have you heard of Portal 2? That has multiplayer.

Don't open your mouth about problems with things when you don't understand what problems with things are.

TLDR No U, hardware solutions for Real Time Ray Tracing based rendering would make this possible for a game like Overwatch.

Rendering things like portals, cameras, mirrors etc. is simple, it's the exact same process as you do for rendering what the player sees. However it's a extremely fucking expensive because it's doing the rendering twice, once for the player and once for the object. Portal has very few variables that increase GPU load and are outside the developers controller. The player can't create any particle effects, there is only one player etc. Plus Portal very specifically minimizes the number of projects in each puzzle. In Overwatch you could have 12 Sombras stealthing and have a near zero GPU load or you could have 12 total mayhem Moira's spamming orbs, coalescences and piss cloads like there is no tomorrow, which would have an insane GPU load. Throw in four sym tps and you aren't increasing the GPU load by 10-15%, you're quadrupling it.

Real time Ray tracing, which Nvidia's rtx enables to a degree, makes the problem of second cameras/reflective surfaces, shadows etc. have a low marginal cost (if you can do rtrt, you get all that for free, but rtrt is hard). This is because RTRT bounces light particles throughout the map so having them bounce off of mirrors or through cameras etc. is cheap.

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TLDR No U, hardware solutions for Real Time Ray Tracing based rendering would make this possible for a game like Overwatch.

Rendering things like portals, cameras, mirrors etc. is simple, it's the exact same process as you do for rendering what the player sees. However it's a extremely fucking expensive because it's doing the rendering twice, once for the player and once for the object. Portal has very few variables that increase GPU load and are outside the developers controller. The player can't create any particle effects, there is only one player etc. Plus Portal very specifically minimizes the number of projects in each puzzle. In Overwatch you could have 12 Sombras stealthing and have a near zero GPU load or you could have 12 total mayhem Moira's spamming orbs, coalescences and piss cloads like there is no tomorrow, which would have an insane GPU load. Throw in four sym tps and you aren't increasing the GPU load by 10-15%, you're quadrupling it.

Real time Ray tracing, which Nvidia's rtx enables to a degree, makes the problem of second cameras/reflective surfaces, shadows etc. have a low marginal cost (if you can do rtrt, you get all that for free, but rtrt is hard). This is because RTRT bounces light particles throughout the map so having them bounce off of mirrors or through cameras etc. is cheap.

You could literally do this in JavaScript with 3 lines of code, more so a big powerful game engine.

You can run a fork bomb with less than a dozen characters of BASH code. The line count has nothing to do with the technical feasibility.

That's fucking horrifying to think about.

Teles need to show whats on the other side.

I'm sure they would if that wouldn't take so many resources to dynamically render

Now it's Dendi time!

LET'S SEE YOU GRIT THOSE TEETH!

I'm not sure why you decided to pick this moment to quote Kamina, but I'm not complaining.

Similar to the Simon / Rossiu punch when Simon drilled through time and space by sheer force of will. I imagine Roadhog hook operates under similar laws of physics.

"fixed a bug that prevented Roadhog's hook from reachinh unintended places"

Symmetra’s Teleporter

That would actually be awesome. Just throw the hook in blind and you never know what your going to drag back out. Might be Ashe, might be Reinhardt. Crazy hook strategies!

If that were to happen I don't know if I'd be mad or impressed that it worked

That would be insane

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SO LOST WITHOUT YOU

I know you were right, believing for so long!

The game was hooked from the start

Ring-a-ding ding baby!

"They only take what SR they find in Gold. Never roam beyond it. Can't even leave Silver without a Grandmaster to shadow. Like hounds. Maybe they saw the flag on my back, thought I was of elo hell. If so, toxicity saved me. A sign."

Been hooked all along

S C R E A M I N G

Can you guys help me out I’m new to this and trynna get some karma

You're already hooked

He looks just as confused lol

I see nothing wrong with this. -Roadhog main

"So he hard counters Sombra, so what?"

SO WHAT IF MY LAUGH IS LIKE THAT

Give me a katakuri roadhog skin. The hook can be made of mochi

Katakuri? Imposible, look at Roadhog belly, it should be Daifuku at best.

Big Mom is the most realistic, hog looks like the kind of guy to dabble in some cross dressing

SO WHAT IF MY MOUTH IS LIKE THAT??.

God I love Katakuri.

SO WHAT IF MY MOCHI BACK THE FLOOR, BAKA-CHAN!

"Just stay out of his hook range, not hard."

“Just bait the hook. You’re being punished for bad positioning.”

She didn’t even die XD.

Hooking around corners was super fun

Which hook was the one where you could set your sensitivity to bonkers and spin them around until your hand got tired?

It might have been possible with 1.0 but I am pretty sure it was 2.0 since they set the requirement for the hooked person to be in front of Roadhog and spinning around delayed that requirement by alot.

https://youtu.be/jCn5BRYm1Y8

It was just when hook 2.0 came out

I don't know why, but "set your sensitivity to bonkers" caught me off guard and had me laughing pretty hard. Thanks for that friend, was much needed today.

Esc>Settings>gameplay>sensitivity>FUCKING BONKERS

To clarify for everyone, you won't see this option right away, you just keep scrolling to the right on the slider past 100, past "Woah there", past "Stop", and finally past "Regular Bonkers"

Not exactly the same, but You should have seen Unreal Tournament 2000, I think. If you set your graphics to the highest settings the game would say yell and echo “HOLY SHIT”

man i miss that game

2004 definitely did that. Don't think UT99 did, though.

im glad im not the only one that actually laughed at this.

Bonkers you say!? It's totally nuts!

You can still do this somewhat.

You could do that all the way until hook 4.0 I believe

I miss being able to hook people into your ult and launch them halfway across the map, it just breaks the hook when you ult now.

Unless you're the victim.

Just in case for the people not noticing.
This is because of LAG, You see the proper icon on the left hand side, small orange one.

On the server Sombra's position was frozen in place, while client side he teleported AFTER she started lagging. Roadog successfully hooked the frozen sombra in front of her, and the roadhog most also saw a very normal hook animation. since the location of sombra was different on the client pc, they synced her back into position while the hook animation was ongoing,

Which results in this amazing, result

I don't think so. Otherwise he wouldn't have waited a lunar month to shoot her after the hook. If this was lag, it would rewind and then first forward to the server's state, looking nothing like this. This is just a bug.

Genkli is right. The stun probably also played into it and likely canceled the teleport but OP is laggy as fuck and this is a client correction, not a server correction

Sombra's TP doesn't suffer from latency as much as say Mei's Ice Block. It's basically Recall levels safe from lag.

IT’S MEANT TO PUNISH BAD POSITIONING!!!

-S1 Roadhog mains

I get it was annoying back then but that’s kinda what it does even now, it’s just much harder because so many people have so much better positioning. I was watching some season 2 Wraxu gameplay and he was about as good as a diamond player is now

Meh, good roadhogs will pull you no matter positioning. Just a matter of how good a roady can predict someone's movement. My favorite game is predict Lucio for the perfect hook.

Mine is pharah. Getting that little sky fucker is so satisfying. The fuck are you doing so low to the ground you too good for land bitch

I spent 3 seasons perfecting the mid air pharah hook. Fucking worth it

I can only hook Pharah if I jump

Also those perfect they’re just standing on a ledge so let’s pull them down to the team hooks are super fun.

Fun fact: Lucio mains are constantly playing frogger. Getting hooked/pinned is getting hit.

Mine is yoinking the rhein off to the side for a quicky.

Or predicting where Moira is coming out of fade.

Oh or a tracer rewind. I spun 180 and caught one once. I got a nice “wtf” in chat.

Always satisfying

No joke I got downvoted a ton for saying Roadhog didn't need that buff, and Roadhog is my main tank

Hog main can confirm, it's just as fair as anas sleep dart that even if she does not aim at you it still hits you.

Yea!now HOOK IS USELESS AS SHIT. You guyd happy?!

Now entering Watchpoint: Gibraltar

Fix hook from grabbing enemy to unintended location

This is so satisfying to see. Original Hog was like this all the time?

The hook would break by the grace of God and naught else. If you had them, you had them.

I read this in Sean Connery’s voice for some reason

Here is my shitty impression https://clyp.it/afmlngcl

Back up about three inches from your mic, drink 2 fingers of highland scotch and you got it you’re real close as it is

Sounds like the guy who reads Pet Semetary by Stephen King on audible. There's a character called Judd, the old guy who lives across the street. Brought back a ton of images my mind created from that book. Was an odd sensation.

A reasonable justification for it, was...that the chain was infinitely long, unbreakable, and multidimensional; and the winch has infinite torque.

So, if the hook connects before you use your mobility trick, you're still hooked?

​

/s if there's any question. Honestly I never had a problem with any of the versions of hook, playing from either side of it. What I miss is the insta-gib hook+1shot kill Hog had on anything remotely squishy. That's what made him a tank - frontal assault denial.

That's what made him a godlike DPS - uncontested eliminations. He's still a very tanky tank. 900 effective HP out the door and the biggest target on the map -- whatever's going on, he's tanking damage. Only now you don't get an insta-kill on a full health 200 HP character just because you could see them and they were in range. Seems fair to me for the role of a tank with an accuracy demand of approximately zero. The hook is still going to kill people 90% of the time anyway, only now you need some DPS characters to help you do the damage.

You mean kind of like if you actually had a hook and a chain?

Yeah real his and chains can grow longer at the speed of light and somehow reattach after being teleported through quantum space

I mean, Sombra can teleport and Tracer can time travel. Who's to say that Hook isn't what Junkrat and Hog found in the temple? An ancient, cruel instrument that hooks directly to the soul. Junkrat gets to soul-jump into his tire. Roadhog gets to control the souls of others.

So Roadhog found the hooks of Hades?

Don't forget that souls are a canonical thing. Mercy can see them and interact, Reaper could at one point gather them. They're real and controllable.

At first you had my curiosity but now you have my attention.

Uhhh....

Get tested regularly, and remember to eat your vegetables.

Sorry, that's as far as my theory goes. My Pokemon theory is much more worked out.

Wait but now I want the PokĂŠmon theory

My theory is that Pokemon is all a game. The whole thing, is a game even to the characters, like Westworld. Pokemon are some sort of hologram. This explains the following:

  • 10 year old boy saves the world multiple times. This is because he's paid for that story.

  • Mother allows 10 year old to wander off with free gift pokemon from scientist. This is because it's a park, and very safe.

  • Level 5 or less pokemon only occur near Pallet Town. Do children on the other side of the map just get murdered if they wander into the woods? No. Everyone starts in Pallet town, or alternatively, the pokemon levels are altered to meet player level. There is literally a path to completing the story you have to follow.

  • In what world is it acceptable to force someone into a battle and take their money if you beat their animals near death, just for seeing them? One where that is agreed upon before entering the contest.

  • Pokeballs turn real, living objects into light, but don't seem to work on humans and there's no teleportation like Bill's PC. This is because they're just data.

  • Also, pokeballs somehow subdue the pokemon? Again, data.

  • Pokemon instantly heal at the pokecenter. That shit is magic, or they just reset the stats.

  • Regular animal abuse...

  • Pokemon glow and do this insane lightshow when they evolve, instead of simply growing slowly. Somehow pokemon can track EXP they earn too, and can only learn a set number of moves. Low available memory apparently.

  • 10 year old boy beats Team Rocket constantly, who for some reason keep attacking him and showing up where he is. They are the salaried antagonists in the park.

  • Pokemon like Lugia and the other legendaries are special events.

  • Porygon is basically an easter-egg, admitting that the pokemon are data.

The list really goes on.

You’ve opened my eyes

I did some thinking and came up with a good explanation: Acid.

Blizzard officially said gameplay elements are not necessarily lore friendly

Sure. But in canon, Mercy manage to fuck with souls to bring reaper back from the dead. Until we know more about the tire [skeleton.jpg], we can only go off gameplay. Junkrat doesn't die even if his body is killed, until the tire explodes. His soul is in that tire.

that was moira not mercy

We don't know she brought him back. We just know she was somehow involved.

...How? As far as we know, Mercy wasn't involved in whatever happened to Reyes, it seems that Moira was fucking with his cells somehow during their time together at Blackwatch and that's what lead to his current state.

No, pre-moira it was lore that Mercy resurrected him, using nanomachines or something.

But the retcons have probably put it more towards Moira, since his whole wraith thing is much more her aesthetic.

Mercy being involved in his resurrection was never official lore. It was a justified headcanon because, well, you have a semi-undead guy and a woman who can resurrect people and they did know eachother, of course the logical conclusion would be that she somehow botched something.

Voicelines between the two of them to pointed to mercy

It was a single voice line that was inconclusive as fuck, people just interpreted it in a way that matched this theory and refused to change that thought.

I mean it clearly shows that she at least had a hand in ut judging by reapers reaction

Not definitely though, no. She asks what happened to him, he says “you tell me, doc.”

That kinda sounds like she had no hand in it and has no idea at all actually. Then his response could be stretched as if he’s blaming her, but it seems more like a sarcastic “you’re a doctor, don’t you know/can’t you tell?” It’s ambiguous at best with a generous reading; definitely not clearly saying she had a hand in it at all.

I remember a voice-line where he accused her of making him that way, and another of her expressing regret for what she "made".

Pretty sure that voiceline never existed. If you're referencing the one I'm thinking of, Michael Chu came out and said the voiceline has never existed and he doesn't know where people pulled it from

That is true, I've never thought of it that way. I hope she does though, it would make for a wonderfully interesting character dynamic.

At least it would if blizzard would release any lore more than once a blue moon.

Don’t forget that gameplay mechanics don’t equal canon, Jeff has stated there’s no canon explanation for how zenyattas harmony and discord orbs work

I mean if I see a soul in an animated short then sure but otherwise nah, just a mechanic

Reaper's soul thing was non cannon it was included solely as a gameplay thing not as a lore thing.

this comes off as misinformed, fyi, as it was stated that 'magic' doesn't exist in the OW universe, and, as others have pointed, that things you see in gameplay mechanics do not necessarily relate to the lore

And this is why you completely ignore the background stories when developing a MMFPS.

Always thought that was more of a translocator problem than a roadhog problem.

I can honestly say that probably 3% of players experienced that. Why change for the minority? I play on console which no one cares about so it's just booty when every single hook you land just disappears

Is a bug, that's why

I'll allow Roadhog's chain to realistically drag people around corners if you make the throw obey the laws of gravity and have the hook get caught on objects in the environment when reeling in.

You mean a Roadhog grappling hook that can save me from boops? Yes please.

Technically if he has the strength to pull another roadhog I'd imagine he could pull himself. It makes sense lol

Oh, no. There’s no reality where hook 1.0 made sense. The hook magically extended through literally anything. Think: closing Payload gates hook. Gates close between target and Hog, not a problem. You’re going to Hog no matter what. It will find a route. Same thing would happen if both you and Hog fell off opposites of a building. You’re going to be pulled around the building.

That chain was extra-planar. As the old Joke goes, it could hook you in Dorado and take you point 2 on Illos. (See: Dinoflask for the joke and Jeff for mentioning it in the hook update video)

Hook 1.0 makes sense in all cases except for when there the path between you and the target has been broken. Around a corner, the corner path still exists, it's just that visually it clips a wall. Hog is also considered pretty strong, so I expect him to be able to reel in just about anyone in the game with no issue.

Hook 1.0 makes sense in all cases except for when there the path between you and the target has been broken.

or when zen ulted and was hooked anyways...or when you didn't even have LoS on the hook in the first place since the hit box was the size of a bus...or when you hooked a Mei who was already in Ice Block....or the hook just kinda ignored the map geometry and hooked through random objects or walls.....or when you hooked some random person who was behind your target and around a corner....

That hook was a hot mess. Pretty much every gaming session you'd be hooked in a way that was total bullshit.

My favourite was getting hooked through a blink or teleport as Sombra. Like...such fun. Why would I want to use my abilities lol.

Getting hooked through a rewind was when I was fucking over Hook 1.0. Bullshit and broken tbh.

Why would I want to use my abilities

I don't know Sombra, why would you?

  • Sincerely Hamster

I’m pretty sure Doomfist and Reinhardt are co-signing that.

In all honesty, while I know its shit for Reins, he's usually with his team to fall back on.

Doom and Hamster don't.

I mean if I could just roll into my ball that would be fine, I could at least roll away. Dva has her mech. Doom, well Doom is also fucked.

She should be removed from the absolute mayhem game mode or whatever its called, because she just makes it completely unfun. "Thanks, I didn't want to play at all this game"

I mean, so Doom in mayhem and he's the main reason people pick her. Just to keep his ass on ground for those 5 secs. So like, take Doom out, and she can be gone too. If Doom is still there, she's gonna stay.

Same for the Attacking team in Mayhem without a Sombra

"Thanks, I didn't want to play at all this game"

I mean, I don't think Sombra hacks you across the map just because lol. If anything her hack LoS is worse now than its ever been. But either way I mostly ment that for Tracer. And I'm pretty sure Sombra isn't a 1hit kill for people like Hog with Hook 1.0 lol.

Honestly it might as well be. Without even being able to roll up his critbox is completely exposed, and being able to hide it is a big part of his survivability. Sombra can just unload right into it and he's dead. Considering he spends all his time near the enemy given his nature, its basically a guaranteed kill unless his team is right there and someone is able to heal him up.

Every other CC I can deal with or avoid: sleep darts, shield bash, trap, hook, whatever, its not fun, but I can at least play around or counter play whatever. With Sombra its just "welp I can either just sit around my team doing nothing or I can swap because otherwise I'm just going to feed EMPs"

Like...her LoS has the easiest break now on Hack. Someone moving will break it. She just takes one hit to cancel it and throw it on CD. Her hack still lets you moves and shoot and gives way more survivability than a stun or Sleep. Sombra just sucks because her hack gives her team an advantage by locking out ults and such. And I get that it sucks, but she's no where near as bad as the stun lock King Doomfist before he got the recent changes. In most play people don't even follow up on a hack so it's a somewhat of a wasted skill especially since the ults had the "consistency" change a while back (why does 76 still ultimate through a hack/emp but roadhog can't? Hog isn't even using and tech, but 76 is using a literal aimbot lol).

LoS, Damage, Range all break Hack.

That's what you fucking get for playing Doomfist though -- good riddance, TBH.

Nah I just play him in arcade.

Hamster tho, : (

Wrecking ball can easily survive a hack unless 2 or 3 from the other team are focusing you, and in that situation you're doubly dead with anyone other than wrecking ball...

Good thing about the hamster is that, for a tank, he's really hard to headshot.

Zen can still be hooked while ulting, that's supposed to happen.

I'm pretty sure he can. If is ultimate expires in the time it takes Roadhog to reel him in, he's fucked.

Ah, I see I got downvoted, but yeah he definitely can. Zen can't be damaged during his ult, but all displacement abilities work.

Not all of them. AFAIK, Lucio and Winston can't do anything to you, but Roadhog can still hook you, and actually kill you if he spins you off a ledge. Same goes for Wrecking Ball -- He can bounce you off the map. It's pretty stupid and extremely unfair on Zenyatta. At least that was the case the last time I tried to a hook a Zenyatta mid-ultimate. They may have fixed it. Wrecking Ball can definitely still do that, I did it myself in a game not 10 minutes ago.

Edt: If what you said is factual, of course it got downvoted. What sub did you think you were on?

Lucio and Winston work, I've used them to knock ulting Zenyattas off the map for two years. Hook, pin, primal rage, boop, HALT, grav, trap, uppercut, rocketpunch -- every displacement move works.

It's neither stupid nor unfair to Zen! Everyone gets counterplays to their ults, Zen is no exception. You can't hurt him, so you keep him away from the people he needs to heal, or knock him off the map if you can. (Remember, Ana didn't even exist at launch)

Why can't Roadhog just eliminate the entire other team at the press of a button -- it makes perfect sense that he would.

If real life logic mattered at all in this game 76 would be able to literally 1 v 6 full teams. He's a one man army after all.

Roadhog is a one man apocalypse yet hasn't been jack dick since his first nerf

There was also a brief bug with sombra's translocator that basically kept her hit box in the same pre teleport location. So, you could connect a hog hook from across the map, like the post, or a rein could charge where she was and she'd suddenly drop dead on the other side of the map.

Should be like that, but can only attach if you have LOS at the moment it grabs. Unfortunately latency could cause for some "I was around the corner wtf" moments.

Servers also added a ton of latency back then, you could have a 15ms ping and still have an 80ms+ delay on the server registering your actions. With 60tick and netcode improvements that latency dropped to less than half of what it used to.

It also trusted what the hog saw on their computer basically 100%; if they had a 500ms ping, they could hook somebody else 0.55 seconds after they actually teleported away and the server would accept the hook as being a valid hit because the teleporter hadn't moved on the laggy roadhog's game client yet.

This is still a problem... I have an average 30ms ping and I can still watch myself getting shot long after I've escaped behind a wall because some asshole is playing on a VPN with 200ms ping. Roadhog in particular is unbeatable if he's lagging. You entered his range? You're hooked, KO.

Routinely ridiculous hooks

Here’s a small montage of just one guy’s bullshit hooks

Forget the hook, I miss that pre-nerf damage

Yeah watching all these old montages you can remember why people complained. Some of the clips he basically wipes the whole enemy team on his own, 1 shot per enemy. Dude really was a one man apocalypse. RIP.

He was still under picked and had a negative winrate before he got nerfed. But a good Hog could destroy.

I was a road hog main back then.. still am but damn. Those were the days

The good old days when a hook was like a surprise box. Did you hit the person right in front of you? Or was it the mercy, hiding behind a corner? You won't know until you reel it in!

You made me almost want hook v1 back.

I used to do drugs, I still do, but I used to too

Just do em less now

They were great days, yeah.

Still miss them.

"Favor the shooter ..... unless the shooter is roadhog"

The best hog vid I’ve ever seen https://www.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4xzh1q/youstayigo/

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Jump to 01:12 @ Hooked on a Feeling - A Roadhog Hook Montage

^(Channel Name: SixZoSeven, Video Popularity: 97.20%, Video Length: [03:17])^, ^Jump ^5 ^secs ^earlier ^for ^context ^@01:07

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I was laughing at that one too

A lot of those hooks are actually just really good hooks, but yes there is mixed in bullshit as well.

Yeah I looked through a few montages, I was hoping to find a compilation of hooks that are closer to OPs, like pulling Tracer through multiple maps. But mostly it was people posting their own highlights.

The video I posted he is just really good at exploiting the corners and line of sight mechanics, there are a couple good bullshit hooks though.

Basically every time Soldier got hooked in this video, it was complete nonsense

Forget the hook, what the hell is that damage? Thank God I didn't start playing until after that shit was nerfed lol

That damage is the only reason Roadhog was any good for the longest time. He was a tank that couldn't tank and his only option was to be a loud as fuck flank that could get picks on bad players.

Bad players lol? I roadhogged into masters, you must have some high standards for what you consider "good players".

Good positioning and awareness are pretty much requirements and make him worthless. Roadhog is/was easy enough to avoid if you're aware of him and staying where you should. That's not to say he isn't still plenty useful, he could real the shit out of Shields and still be a constant threat which is useful on its own, but if you consistently got hooked, it was your fault.(after they fixed the hook randomly snagging people)

He honestly still isn't all that good. That pick potential is what made him viable even at the pro level.

Roadhog's always been the tankiest tank except for Reinhardt. Effectively 900 HP out the door and the biggest, easiest to hit target on the map. Does exactly the job of a tank - tanks damage.

That doesn't make him the Tankiest. He has no way to prevent damage like literally every other tank. He has no armor so not only does he take ALL damage in his direction, he also takes the full damage instead of none/some of it. His heal is in fact a negative against him, since it both prevents supports from getting Ult and feeds Ult to the enemy team. The only time it's useful is if you're solo and if you're solo, YOU'RE NOT TANKING.

He has no way to prevent damage like literally every other tank.

Yes he does, just not to himself. He soaks up damage that would otherwise be eliminating healers, a lot of it, and he basically serves that purpose better than anyone, which makes him the second or third best tank in the game (after Reinhardt and maybe Orisa).

His heal is in fact a negative against him, since it both prevents supports from getting Ult and feeds Ult to the enemy team.

That's debatable. It may charge enemy ultimates but it also prevents allies from getting focused. Doesn't make any difference in his fulfillment of his role as a tank either way though.

Yes he does, just not to himself. He soaks up damage that would otherwise be eliminating healers, a lot of it, and he basically serves that purpose better than anyone, which makes him the second or third best tank in the game (after Reinhardt and maybe Orisa).

But Dva does that already and she can defend herself. In fact, she's so good at it she blocks a significant portion of the most powerful offensive ults. On top of that, she has plenty of armor, making her winston, shotgun, and tracer resistant.

Also, why the hell would you feed ult charge to an enemy team as roadhog for the sake of "getting focused"? Winston does the same thing by jumping in and dancing around his bubbles. The difference is that Winston's bubble doesn't feed ult.

But Dva does that already and she can defend herself.

DVA doesn't do that at all. She dies so quickly you can barely call her a tank. She'll be flying in and out of the melee to look for a healer or a health pack, giving you a chance to kill a higher priority target.

Winston, sort of, but he still doesn't have Roadhog's standing power.

Also, why the hell would you feed ult charge to an enemy team as roadhog for the sake of "getting focused"?

It's not like you have a choice. If the enemy can see you, they can shoot you, and they will. The benefit of that is your healers and DPS aren't getting shot at by everyone who's shooting at Roadhog. It gives your DPS space to eliminate targets and keeps your healers alive, fulfilling the role of a tank perfectly. You charge enemy ultimates but your team will also be charging their own, so that's a wash.

Yeah back when he only had 4 shots each one did like 33% more dmg per shot. Then they made it 5 and nerfed the dmg.

Also increased fire rate

Should've seen the eleaguers play him.

lol he didn't even one shot her. You haven't seen damage.

Man, good times.

Roadhog is in a better place balance-wise, but it felt so good to just demolish when you got in a groove like that. TBH I really liked his slow, heavy shotgun vs the flak gun we have now. Both are fine but you felt so POWERFUL with those slow, deliberate blasts.

Not just original hog, the 5 or so hogs that came after him when they kept trying to tweak things and still let the physics engine handle things.

New mechanics lead to new memes

One of the first posts I ever saw was a custom video of a Lucio getting grabbed by a roadhog and getting pulled through multiple maps before it finishing lol, it was a big deal in the early days

Also early days you could have multiple of the same character, even up to I think season 1. Wild days

There were even some streamers who grew popular for those that mastered it. They got even top500 and could solo a whole team easily.

No it was more of a translocator bug that got fixed....

Huge buff to sombra

Lol i kinda miss the oldhog :(

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Fixing the hook was fine, but I really miss the damage he used to do. Those one shot combos really made hog fun to play. They should have nerfed the distance the hook travels and increase the cool down instead.

I bet it felt pretty shitty to play against, though.

He says "I'm a one man apocalypse" and it used to be true. He tanked by punishing the shit out of you for being out of position.

So true. And if we, the Hogs, were out of position and were forced to use our heal we couldn't move and that was on us. We didn't get a damage reduction when healing either. I really dislike new 'hog.

It's funny now, because you know exactly which heroes can still be one shotted with a shot + melee combo (I'm looking at you tracer) and which champs require a bit more work (I'm looking at you reaper and your I'm just going to Shift out of here bullshit).

However, pulling off a cheeky right click is really satisfying as well.

You can still kinda get a Reaper good if he’s unsuspecting. One well placed distance-shot to get in a bit of damage, followed immediately by the hook, followed immediately by a shotgun shot. It’s fairly rare to be able to pull that off against any half decent reaper though.

Other heros also punish being out of position, but not in an unavoidable combo by an enemy that has the biggest health pool and a huge self healing ability.

he tanked

lmao, he did more than tank.

I didn't mind. It was still a skill play. It was no more frustrating than getting picked off by a Widow headshot imho. And at least hook had a cool down.

Headshots with Widowmaker require pinpoint precision. Makes sense that something with an extremely high accuracy demand will do extremely high damage.

Hooking someone just requires you to aim in the general vicinity of who you're hooking. Doesn't make much sense that the shot with the single lowest accuracy demand is a guaranteed kill.

It wasn't that easy to get a hit with--admittedly, I play on console--but you know hog has hook; if you got hooked he outmaneuvered you or you did something stupid, either way you got out played.

got out played

Vastly less so than when a Widowmaker headshots you, which is why that's a guaranteed elimination for <300 HP characters and the hook isn't.

You a Widow main? Cause you are WAY overselling the skill of widows I run into. It's 90% positioning, just like hog, and then that last 10% is a varying mix of knowledge, luck, and skill.

Edit: are you talking about strictly aiming when you're talking about being out played? Because I'm not. Positioning, staying with your team, leveraging map control, this is what I'm talking about. For hog to get his hook instakill you were out in the open, likely alone and without a shield (stupid) or he got the drop on you with a flank, which still means you screwed up.

Cause you are WAY overselling the skill of widows I run into.

No I'm not. Hitting someone in the head with Widowmaker simply requires far greater accuracy (as well as Positioning™, timing, and so on) than hitting someone anywhere in the general space they occupy with a hook. Meaning it's much more difficult to do, and as a result does far more damage.

For hog to get his hook instakill you were out in the open, likely alone and without a shield (stupid) or he got the drop on you with a flank, which still means you screwed up.

You're ignoring the ease with which a player who can aim will land the hook. My aim is average on PC and even I have close to 50% accuracy with it (barely over 10% critical hit accuracy with Widowmaker). While what you say should be true for Widowmaker, because it's extremely difficult to land headshots, there's no way Roadhog should present that kind of a threat, area denial, or barrier to entry with how easily his hook connects. If you had to hook the head, like getting a headshot with Hanzo, you'd have a point.

there's no way Roadhog should present that kind of a threat, area denial, or barrier to entry with how easily his hook connects.

Except that he's a tank and that's his role.

By your own math you probably get the same number of kills with hook and headshot per given chunk of time.

Except that he's a tank and that's his role.

A tank's role is to insta-kill anyone who's not behind a shield? That's funny, but no.

By your own math you probably get the same number of kills with hook and headshot per given chunk of time.

My own math? Where? Either way, not even close. I could go an entire round without landing a single headshot with Widowmaker because, again, it's very difficult to do. Conversely, I could land every single hook I throw in a round with Roadhog, because it's very easy to do.

Anyway, you've been informed. This discussion is over.

Strawman much?

you are just objectively wrong people have laid out the facts plain and simple and your only response is to say "no thats not what my feelings say"

come on mate come off it

As I said to the other cretin: You've been informed. End of discussion.

yeah alright mate, really shows your maturity level when you get this upset about being wrong

grow up

Hogtard gets OWNED with facts and LOGIC! 😤😤😤

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not... But I think it's amazing that people in this thread are actually trying to maintain that Roadhog's hook is as demanding as headshots with Widowmaker.

I realize that Overwatch is unprecedentedly accommodating for players who can't aim, but that doesn't mean you get to pretend you're as skilled as the Widowmaker landing headshots when you land a hook with a character as forgiving as Roadhog. These people are laughable.

Well I was being sarcastic. Anyway, while the hook does admittedly need less aim than a sniper rifle, there's also the consideration of positioning. Get bad positioning as a Hog, and you're essentially feeding 900 hp worth of ult charge. More than a Dva + baby, more than a suicide rein, most amount of health in the game really. You can argue that Widow requires good positioning as well, but I'm sure we both know who's in more danger here.

Not to mention the game hasn't been kind to tanks in the last couple of seasons. While the other tanks have some sort of protection, all Roadhog has is his 300 hp jar of probably-dangerous chemicals. And in a meta with burst damage being the norm, you can probably imagine how fast some heroes could eat that up. Not to mention what a team could do. (though the damage resist is pretty neat, can survive whole ults with it)

By the way, the main problem in hand is how you seem to handle arguments. By simply dismissing them by saying that they've been 'informed', you'll just leave them confused at most. Not to mention how self righteous you sounded when you called the two cretins for simply having conflicting opinions. Arguments are meant to be about an exchange of ideas, but you only see it as a way to feel smarter than the people around you, much like people arguing about political issues like gun control and ideologies. So, I'll say it once again, so you'll see what I meant.

Hogtard gets OWNED with facts and LOGIC! 😤😤😤

while the hook does admittedly need less aim than a sniper rifle

It doesn't just need less aim, it needs vastly less. Headshots with Widowmaker are the single most demanding shot in the game, Roadhog's hook is one the easier shots to land. To equivocate the latter with the former in terms of skill is simply stupid. And yes Positioning™ equally affects all characters so there's no need to bring it into the comparison.

you called the two cretins for simply having conflicting opinions

Those two people simply were cretins. Everyone maintaining the idiotic notion that Roadhog's hook is somehow as difficult to land as a headshot with Widowmaker and thus deserves to also be a guaranteed kill on over half the cast is being deeply unreasonable in this thread (not a difference of opinion -- believing this makes you flat-out wrong), but those two in particular were simply cretins. I got replies from several others disagreeing with me, didn't see a reason to call any of them anything.

self righteous

I think you're mistaken. I sound like I know I'm right, because I am. That's not the same thing. The two aforementioned cretins were being sanctimonious (because their argument was bullshit and had no valid points, they had to be to continue arguing), which is why I had to block them.

I sound like I know I'm right, because I am

Those two people simply were cretins

(not a difference of opinion -- believing this makes you flat-out wrong)

The aforementioned cretins were being sanctimonious

Actually listen to yourself.

Also, getting a better angle for a headshot isn't the same as going behind enemy lines as a loud, fat, heavy fat bastard and trying to get a pick at the risk of feeding 900 hp. Not to mention, I think you just cherry picked most of my post.

Though admittedly, roadhog's hook is extremely generous, but at a cost of having limited range and potential risk. Not to mention a cooldown. Roadhog and Widow just have vastly different playstyles, strengths, and weaknesses. They're actually polar opposites. Not exactly a great way to measure a character's skill level.

but at a cost of having limited range and potential risk.

So? Widowmaker can only get a headshot by standing virtually motionless. Neither character can do damage risk-free.

getting a better angle for a headshot isn't the same as going behind enemy lines as a loud, fat, heavy fat bastard and trying to get a pick at the risk of feeding 900 hp.

Sounds like you're trying to make it seem like having effectively 900 HP somehow makes it more difficult for Roadhog to land a hook than for Widowmaker, with 200 HP and a basically stationary position while aiming for a headshot, to land a headshot. That's preposterous. To use your own words, actually listen to yourself. It's completely the other way around.

Actually listen to yourself.

Yeah, I don't see the problem. Everything I've said is completely right. This isn't a matter of opinion. It is categorically easier by a long way to land a hook with Roadhog than to land a headshot with Widowmaker. If you want to disagree, you are free to be wrong. End of discussion.

Ps:

Not to mention, I think you just cherry picked most of my post.

Look at the quotes at the top of your post. That's what's called cherry picking.

While it doesn't require pinpoint accuracy, it's still not easy to get hooks. On top of that, it has an 8 second cooldown. Instakills can definitely be unfun, but it's not the worst offender. For example, it isn't a no-brain instakill that also stuns and repels with a cooldown of 4 tiny seconds.

it's still not easy to get hooks

Within the spectrum of landing a headshot with Widowmaker and landing some electricity with Winston, Roadhog's hook is closer to the electricity in terms of accuracy demands and thus ease.

It may be hard for you to do, but compared to every other means of dealing high damage in the game it's definitely one of the easiest ones short of pressing Q. And it was by far the easiest non-Q insta-kill in the game when his shotgun did more damage, which makes equivocating it with Widowmaker headshots, the most difficult and demanding way to insta-kill someone, strikingly ludicrous, which is the only reason I even commented in the first place.

For example, it isn't a no-brain instakill that also stuns and repels with a cooldown of 4 tiny seconds.

I assume you mean Brigitte, who could only ever insta-kill one character. Yes, it's ridiculously easy for her to kill Tracer, and that's pretty unfair on the Tracer player. Welcome to Overwatch. But I have to add, if you think Roadhog's hook is really hard to hit, you're the type of player they designed Brigitte for...

Roadhog's hook is closer to the electricity in terms of accuracy demands and thus ease.

I don't see how you can compare a short range constant AOE attack with a ranged directed cooldown. I don't play roadhog myself, but I generally find it easy to bait out his hook and avoid it. It has a cooldown, its range is much shorter, and there's a lot of decent counter play (shields, bubble, defense matrix, ice wall, etc).

As for the instakill, I was talking about doomfist. Doomfist isn't unbalanced, and he's not easy to play, but it's frustrating to see him hold down right click to get an instakill. You don't all see the work and risk/reward that's going on.

This is all from someone who loves to play widow in FFA and hates getting hooked by that one roadhog.

I don't see how you can compare a short range constant AOE attack with a ranged directed cooldown

You don't? Even though I clearly explained that they both sit on the spectrum of accuracy requirements within the game? I guess I can't help you then.

and he's not easy to play

Doomfist isn't easy to play? That's a joke if I've ever heard one. All of his moves are even easier to hit than Roadhog's hook. He's right next to Winston on the spectrum - virtually no accuracy requirements whatsoever. I forgot he could insta-kill by bashing people into walls with full charge though. While that is less demanding than Roadhog's hook, it requires a perfect storm of circumstances to work, a wall and full charge, same as Reinhardt's charge, so it rarely happens. In Roadhog's case, you just have to be in range and you're in trouble.

Doesn't make much sense that the shot with the single lowest accuracy demand is a guaranteed kill.

You have to actually lead with your hook. It is a skill shot. And there are counters to it.

And he's fat and an ult battery with no means of escape. And he has to be in the middle of the fight to get these hooks.

There were drawbacks to his good hook skill back then so it balances.

You have to actually lead with your hook.

So? Most characters in the game shoot slow moving projectiles, you have to lead with all of them, and with the exception of maybe one or two they all require more accuracy than the hook. Not to mention you have to predict people's movements to shoot them in the head with Widowmaker all the same.

And he's fat and an ult battery with no means of escape.

Every character has weaknesses, doesn't mean they should get easy, guaranteed kills.

Yeah, but it's at a range for the hook. I don't understand why you think it's somehow less skillful. Widow you can take shots from afar. Hence, it's harder. Hog, you gotta get in there and get people.

And Hog threatens by space. That's his his use as a character. It's the same as Widow's line of sight. It's the same as getting too close to Brig.

Hog getting hooks and kills is what he does. Now it's just more inconsistent which is...better? Sure.

I don't understand why you think it's somehow less skillful.

You don't understand why Roadhog's hook requires less skill than headshotting people with Widowmaker?

...

This discussion is over.

But do you understand Roadhog has to expose himself more to get those hooks?

...

This discussion is over.

It did. If anyone was hurt on your team a single shot from Hog would basically kill them, whether he hooked them though time and space or not. He could wipe practically a whole team on his own if any shots landed.

The hook in tandem with his dmg was fun for Hog players, but absolutely terrible to play against.

If anyone was hurt on your team a single shot from Hog would basically kill them

That's still true... Unless you're a tank you basically need full health and Roadhog to be alone to survive a hook. If his teammates see you get hooked you're dead.

I always thought they should take the damage off the hook, but it didn’t do that much anyway so it wouldn’t have made a difference lol

Exactly. Kinda ruined the type of character he was

You can still oneshot 200 characters though.

Just to confirm that's it, right? anything over and no more hook/shoot/melee kill? Just want to make sure I'm not doing something wrong.

Yes the combo is hook+Mouse1+melee.

To be honest there's bit of shitty arbitary rules involved. As a general rule of thumb you shouldn't shoot as soon as possible. Walk a step forward then aim at the neck(not head). However some characters have mobility skills and for those you need to shoot sooner.

​

With enough practice you can even one-shot Reaper(despite 250hp). Mei/Brig/Doomfist you cannnot one-shot still(it's impossible)

Yeah my one friend dominated with him and we had crazy high win rates because he was a hooking machine but sadly he quit cold turkey after like 2 matches into the patched roadhog he knew it just wasn't the same. For the best though I agree

Same. I was just getting into Roadhog when the nerf came down and it just wasn't the same. Haven't played him much since, outside of Mayhem and Mystery.

As a semi-casual player, he was my first gold weapon I unlocked. I picked a horrible time though, because only a week later, at most, is when all the nerfs started piling on him. Talk about buyer’s remorse...

Edit because autocorrect

He was my comp main back then as well. After the changes I dropped him completely and basically only played him in Mystery Heroes.

But he's in a pretty good spot right now. He's gotten enough small buffs to where he isn't garbage anymore. I've been using him to some success in comp once again.

Although I tend to only use him on maps where he can get some environmental kills because those are still guaranteed one shots at least. I had an amazing game on Rialto last night where I just kept hooking their Reinhardt into the water at the start every time he dropped his shield or turned the other way.

The poor guy tried switching to Winston but I just hooked him after he used his jump pack. I also got a few of their squishies when the main tank wasn't shielding them. I got so many hooks there they weren't even able to get across the first bridge.

He's at an ok place now. He isn't as good as he was but he'll never be that good again. He's alright though, much better than he was after the nerfs. And he's still an amazing pick on maps with good spots for environmental hooks.

I just want my hooks that land on tracer to not be broken by her dash. She gets a free escape if it's off cd and that feels wrong.

He's still fun to play, but the nerfed damage is really annoying sometimes. Hook someone in, shoot, then they run away before I can put in the finishing shot

I'm fine with hook 2.0 cuz it fixed most of the problems of the hook, but hog used to be one of my favorite heroes before 3.0

Straight from the Go Hog

  • the ex... probably

I just miss when there was less CC and damage was less high-burst. Back when he wasnt countered by most of the roster

Totally balanced. I don't see why they ever descided to change it

This is the change that ruined Roadhog imo

Nah nerfing his 💯 ko is what did him in. Landing a hook was exciting, there was anticipation. Now no one cares.

Elaborate? I didn't play back then so wondering what you mean.

It used to be if you hooked someone it was pretty much a guaranteed kill, if you didn't one shot them with your shotty (rarely do you mess that up) then the melee follow up was enough. Hog was a very high pickrate just because he could instagib anyone around 200hp.

Um, he can still do this? Why do y'all act like this isn't the case anymore.

Not really as easily. I have people get away constantly now where I didn't in 1.0. So yeah maybe it's possible to combo any 200hp or less but it's not nearly as easy.

just need to make sure you really shoot them in the face melee, half assing it won't give you results.

Even if you do all that, a majority of heroes on the roster can still escape

At like 50 hp, so a single extra clip will kill them.

Moreover, almost no one survives a step forward -> shot -> melee.

It used to be no step forward before shooting, no melee was needed. Just hook and hold down the trigger and any non-tank was just deleted with like 90% certainty. That’s the ease that everyone is talking about.

Now with the step and the melee needed for most, and a wide range of escape abilities, there’s no such guarantee anymore, so it’s not as easy.

I'm well aware. I'm just stating that everyone going "Hog is ruined now" is really not playing the character right. Anyone hooked is still gonna die in most circumstances, even if it takes a second shot to finish them. You just don't get the satisfaction (and frustration for the other party) of a one shot.

Damage is lower now, and a good enemy D.Va will defense matrix every time you hook someone.

[deleted]

The defense matrix was different back then, it had a flat cd and uptime.

yah but she could still matrix it.

Not as consistently but if you saw people get hooked and you had matrix ready and you didn't use it you were doing something wrong.

Actually no, defense matrix had to wait a short time after projectiles had left the gun before deleting them. With hog's hook, they'd reach the enemy before they got deleted.

One of the strongest, yet most subtle buff's to defense matrix.

He still can with some. But it’s definitely no guarantee. Hook Sombra, Reaper, Moira, Genji (basically anybody with a decent escape) they may not die. Back then non tanks didn’t get away. Now the guaranteed kills are almost limited to Hanzo, Soldier, and Zen.

he still can?

Last time, if you hooked someone who wasn't a tank, it's pretty much a one-shot kill. If it was a tank, they'd be almost-instantly dead too if you were by your team. It was pretty OP because at the time, the only things that could reliably stop a hook was Genji and shields. Roadhog was also a shield-shredder and D.Va was very weak against him due to her massive head hitbox. His only real 'counter' was Zarya or another Roadhog.

They started by nerfing the easiness of the one-shot kill, making it harder but still possible (you'd have to aim in a tighter space than before to get a 1-shot).

The hook was then changed (called hook 2.0) so that the hook would only pull if the hooked target stays in Roadhog's vision throughout the entire hook-connect process. If an obstacle is between Roadhog and the target after the hook has connected, the hook breaks and the target is free, but hook goes on cooldown. This was meant to remove occurrences of hook dragging people who have teleported/dashed away. But hook started being extremely unreliable because a tiny obstacle, like a lamppost, can cause the hook to break. The 'Roadhog must see the target' rule was extremely strict and lots of hooks would break for real reason.

At some point, the shotgun damage gets nerfed even more. Hooked targets are now more likely to survive with a significant portion of health than not - and that's if they get hooked. The game has so many speed-ups and dashes etc, so the chances of a hooked target slightly breaking line of sight was very high)

That was when Roadhog started getting extremely unrewarding to play, because not only is hook unreliable, if you were to finally hook someone, the chances of them getting away without much harm is rather high.

I was a Roadhog main and I must say that even though this balance made the game better overall, I'm still a little peeved that Widowmaker could still be what she is while Roadhog's one-shot capacity is nerfed to the ground even when it was harder to accomplish, since it is gated by cool-downs and mag-capacity, something that Widow is hardly confined by.

Reaper was and always has been a great counter to Roadhog though.

Not back then he wasn’t. Roadhog was just a better Reaper at the time and could 1 shot Reaper with hook combo.

Actually no. Hog had a better damage shotgun and 3 times reaper's health, and reaper only regained health on kills. Hog was pretty much just a better reaper in every way back then.

At that time, Reaper and Roadhog was sorta each other's counters. Reaper benefited off shooting at a tank with no shields, but Roadhog gets to punish Reaper for being aggressive because his hitbox makes him a good hook target.

Of course, that changed when the damage nerfs came. Now Roadhog is a little more than an ult farm. Back then, Roadhog at least was a riskier tank to advance on.

As a Reaper player I like those mind games between him and the Hog. You may bait the hook, he may bait your wraith, you’re both awful at a distance so you need to time the abilities well... it’s an interesting dynamic.

But now hog hooking reaper is basically free ult charge for reaper :(

With the new spread changes Hog is way more dangerous up close. Reaper got also that buff, but it’s not as pronounced. You can survive a hook and shoot combo but you’re definitely not staying there.

His scrap gun used to be able to one shot all the squishy characters after a hook. It was a perfect combo.

It's still a ko if the victim gets focused, and that's why I think removing one shot combo was better for hog - it forces you to play with your team. And later changes to healing gave him more to work with as a tank, making him a more interesting hero overall.

Reaper main here. I care. Brig and roadhog are really the only heros that I don't usually risk diving on.

You can still easily one shot 200 hp heroes ...

Joking aside this is probably a latency issue that looks funny when it's resolved.

As all things should be*

Reminds me of a period in Dota2 history from years ago. There used to be a trick where you could use Pudge's hook (which is functionally the same skillshot as Roadhog) in conjunction with another hero's ability to teleport an ally back to base in order to pull an enemy all the way across the map, and into the deepest part of the base, where they were killed pretty much instantly.

It even got used in the biggest annual dota tournament, The International, by crowd favourite Dendi. They ended up losing that match-up because they were outplayed and out-strategised by their opponents, and the "fountain hook" was just a gimmick that required a lot of set-up for not a lot of pay-off, but it made for good viewing. It was flashy, and the crowd had a lot of fun with it, which I think was the point.

It got patched out pretty quick, but it's still one of those fondly remembered "features."

This same thing happened in league of legends in the very early days, the character darius had an ability that could pull people into him, but it hit EVERYTHING in front of him, and by using a special ability called teleport he was able to cast the hook at the end of the teleport animation and drag all 5 enemy team members into the fountain where they all died

I love overwatch its probably in my top 5 all time games. But sometimes I wish I could play it how it was before all the changes with mercy rez and all of its other quirks

We need an anniversary brawl that puts all heroes back as they were at launch, or maybe a few at landmark patches.

Three-stage-turret Torbjorn, vacuum shoulder Rein, quantum powered hook Roadhog, Fan the Headshot McCree, slingshot Genji, self-killing D.Va, car wash Symm... so many things new players won’t get to live through.

You can still play vacuum Rein, you just have to live long enough to charge and not be stunned an slept, that's all!

Stun sleep stun flash bang fist

They said words couldn't hurt me, but those do.

You forgot hack and freeze.

Don't forget the boops and hooks

Dont forget shield bastion!

If we're going to bring back old Sym then it better be Sym 2.0

I loved that shield gen. Permaporter was really nice too, especially on volskaya A defense. I knew I was helping my team get back into battle FAST.

Really volskaya was the best map for Sym 2.0 as her teleporter was clutch defending A and shields when defending B.

What was slingshot genji?

Genji used to be able to do a trick as he pulled himself over a ledge to fling himself across entire maps. He could use it to get from one end of Ilios (not well or ruins I forget its name but the one with the little building and the symmetrical cafes) to the other to flank the enemy right out of the dropship. There’s an old highly voted post of mcccree burning an ult to solo an incoming high speed Genji with dragonblade up.

[deleted]

https://youtu.be/dJiyqEIZd0Q

Any chance you got a link to that post?

Well, 'entire maps' is definitely an exaggeration, but you would still get significant distance from your Swift Strike. I've never heard it as "slingshot Genji", rather as "Edge Boosting".

Or the characters at their most OP state, the Bastion Crisis, Fan the Hammer, +50% damage Discord, 400 armor 200 HP D.Va, instant rez Valkyrie, 8 seconds Dragonblade...

50% discord

Oh shit I forgot all about that. Pray the enemy Zen didn't have good aim and you didnt have discord on you.

Or if you are a tank with a head hitbox the size of a small truck, the enemy doesn't even need aim :D

The good ole days

What about god mode Bastion?

slingshot genji was only for good players lol

High accuracy bastion

I notice you didn't include headshot turret Bastion or SCATTAH in there.

You forgot "hey-guys-I'm-wallriding-on-the-very-top-of-route-66's-cliffs-but-still-healing-you Lucio".

i only understood one of these things i wish i got to experience 1.0

Back in earlier stages of the game's development, Torbjorn could upgrade his turret to level 3 the same as level 2. It was basically as the turret was in Molten Core, but slower.

Rein's charge pin hitbox used to be, basically, the size of him at minimum.

Quantum powered hook is demonstrated in the OP.

Fan the Headshot McCree refers to a time when FtH dealt the full damage of McCree's left click up to six times in rapid succession and could headshot. At close range, with flashbang up, McCree was the game's most feared and respected tankbuster- but as such, he suffered from damage falloff that made him not so viable at range.

Slingshot Genji refers to an old glitch where Genji could vault huge distances by climbing up a ledge.

Self-killing D.Va refers to the time when D.Va's ult killed her, not just enemies.

Car Wash Symm refers to the era of Symmetra gameplay where she had a beam that locked onto enemies and stayed locked on regardless of moment, only coming off for range, and had up to six turrets.

I’ve been asking for this for like a year. Just give us a gamemode where we play a build of the game at launch (or “landmarks” like you said).

Honestly throw in Bastion having a shield like he had in development, never even made it to a release, I’d be down with that.

Some reverts would be less fun entirely. Reaper's self heal orbs come to mind for instance

That was Reaper's best state. It made him a team player because he could healed from EVERY enemy death, not just ones he participated in.

It also denied resurrections

What? OG Reaper could deny res by sucking souls? That was beyond my time.

Didn't know that. He was a actual reaper.

It was removed because it felt awful and when reaper was in play Mercy couldn't see any play.

Glares at brigitte

P̛͚̬̘̻͕̬̤R͢҉̘E̴̦̮̱͎͕̖C̶̲̲͚̼̹͟͢I̭S̸̫͕̣͉Į͕̠O͙̬̗̩͈͝͞Ṋ̶́ ̧̰͔̘̭̥̹̗͓͟G̛̯̼̣͙̬͍̟͡È̷̫̰̺̺̙͙͢Ŗ̶͏̻̖̼͙͚̥͍̯M͟͞҉̝͓̲̯͖̹̥̰ͅÁ͙̘͍͚̻̲̺͡͠N̥̤͖̙̼̘̹͘ ̶͖̣̲̞̘̗͡E̵̶̠̺̬̱̻̹͙͢N̷̢͏̦̠̤͈̫͚͔G͙̝͜͠I͎̯̲͚̕ͅN̴̡͉̦̞̞͖E͖͙̥͙̲͖E͡҉̢̪̘̮̼͙ͅR̵̠͎̩͙̲͖̱̳̙͟͟I̘̖̖̜͜͝N͙̫̟̯͉̪͙G̹̯̠͚͢

No way, I like him way more now than before. The changes to his wraith make him a much more versatile character now.

No, no you don't. Goats is annoying but nothing was more annoying than mercy afking to get a 5 man rez, and then the moth meta happened for 6 months which was equally excruciating.

Man, that part of Mercy made me hate the hero so much. She single-handedly dictated how the game was played. Defense maps dragged out to ages because it was easy for Mercy to just camp in base, especially when she could rez her whole team from Anubis spawn.

You either play 'Hunt the Mercy' (hardly practical), replicate the same strat, or lose.

She single-handedly dictated how the game was played

And then the fix for that was... making her so absurdly OP that if a team didn't have a Mercy they practically had lost the match before it even started.

At high ranks, she was a throw pick because her ult was virtually useless against any team with decent coordination. All it did was waste time.

Its sole purpose was to punish ult dumps. It was only like that to counter OP ult combos (Grav/dragon, beyblade, and so on). Higher ranked players had good ult economy, so Mercy’s ability to punish poor synergy was totally unneeded. Tbh, huge rez was one of the most balanced states Mercy has ever been in.

honestly the only actual bad part is that mercy was incentivized to leave the fight and not play the game. 5 man rezzes were hype.

I still remember my first 5-man Rez, which won our team the comp match. It's a high that I have yet to re-experience, for the sheer joy of ruining the enemy team's moment of victory.

The moth meta lasted from the month Mercy was reworked until last July. Nearly a full year. There was some time in between where people agreed not to play her after her rez nerf, but she was the best hero in the game again shortly after.

Even better, the OW team just reverted nerfs that kept her ult in check. Once they kill Brig and dive comes back, we’ll have a Mercy meta V2.

"Once they kill Brig."

Fuck yeah I hope you mean they delete her

Honestly, Mercy, Roadhog, and Genji have just been completely ruined for me, and that is enough to stop me fro playing. My favorite thing was doing the wall slingshot glitch with genji to cross map in seconds.

That was a broken game glitch, not a mechanic. Kinda hard to justify bringing back a ridiculously unbalanced accident.

Big rez, symmetra’s noodle beam, engineer torb, and reaper orbs were straight up different mechanics and can be argued for legitimate return in some sort of arcade mode. Hook 1.0 is a gray area... like did they realize how broken it was or was that a bug?

Seriously, bring back big rez! At least in custom games

Imagine thinking you have won that last team fight defending Hanamura, the timer almost over, your team having burned all their ults and only one or two of them left alive in the point with little health. Imagine a little horrible angel that was hiding nearby, flying in and ressurecting everybody in her team. You haven't experienced the true meaning of hopeless, soul crushing DEFEAT unless you have lived through that.

3 seconds remaining

The team is happy and talking trash

...wait did we get the mercy?

hears someone approach

2 seconds remaining

Mercy comes to point

for the last possible second everyone aiming goes to shit

"HeRoEs NeVeR dIe"

everyone is rez

fuck.jpg

WAIT! McCree bas high noon!

As he wait for the lock on he is hooked by 1.0

Defeat

The blame game sucks.

That one person who didn't talk the entire match insults everyone

Overwatch is a blast.

Sometimes bugs make the game better

Sometimes 'features' make the game better

Ftfy

It just works

King Crimson!

Without a doubt.

Just off the top of my head I can name multiple important bugs that improved games. Counter strike had bunny hopping and boosts, Street fighter 2's combos, Melee's wave dashing, quake's rocket jumping. Also pretty much all of dota 2's interaction.

Of course I'm not so sure this is quite as "game changing".

Halo 2 had BXR, Double Shot, and Swipe Sniping. If you didn't master those you weren't playing at a high level, plain and simple.

I don't think hook 1.0 made the game better. But i really miss edge dash on genji, it added extre depth to the character while not being too powerful.

I see you're missing that ledge-jump.

Sigh, I agree.

Looks off into the distance, remembering the time where Hack didn't check LoS, abilities, and didn't go on CD upon being interrupted

This may sound crazy, but I’ve seen some wilder hooks than this one back when this used to be a normal occurrence.

RIP hooking people who disconnect and it never returns.

Wait. What?! Anyone have any footage of this! I started shortly after Sombra came out, right at the end of the winter event. It was (is) my first FPS, so it took me a while to get used to playing before I really paid attention to things and played a lot of heroes. I stuck with Mei and Junkrat in the beginning!

Can't find a video at the moment but here's a bnet forum post about it.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20745654951

Far from proof, but I'll keep trying to find a video, but it was very rare for obvious reasons. Also, welcome to the FPS genre and try to have fun SMILE

"I'll be taking that with me, thanks." poof

BRING BACK FOUNTAIN HOOKS!

^^^^^Oops ^^^^^wrong ^^^^^game

I was looking for this comment haha. "Is this fair? Is this BaLaNcEd?"

Paying homage to fountain hook i see

Was literally about to post that till I saw your post! RIP Pudge

Navi.dendi BibleThumb

Roadhog's special power is... He's fat. It makes sense that he's able to pull you back to him with his amount of weight, bring it back!

Jesus Christ that's insane, didn't knew it was THAT bad back then.

Fountain hooking is back. Where's Dendi?

Fountain hook

Kunai With Chain

[removed]

The only time I ever had a use for the DPI toggle on my mouse.

I'll just leave this here

This is terribly old in case anyone thinks this is a new bug. Sombra’s Translocator counter is on the screen. But as someone who still has nightmares of Hook 1.0 - this triggered me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsfhADiaP5E

The transdimensional hook

you can see the latency icon pop on during the hook

Esports ready.

This is actually brilliant

"You only get hooked if you're out of position!"

She got hooked through time and space

Forgot how bad it was lol

​

"There are a lot of fishes in the sea, but you're the only one I'd like to catch and mount back home. "

Just a lag

GET OVER HERE

No

“Perfectly clear hook man” - Roadhog main I’m aspiring to be 😂

You lost connection to the server for about 3 seconds (as shown by the connection error icon on the left). For everyone else in the game, you were probably just standing still when the Hog hooked.

https://eu.battle.net/support/en/article/37007

HOOKED ON A FEEEELINNGG

Seems like in one of the instances (probably the Hog’s one) you got hooked before your turned back to your beacon. (If you say beacon one more time... I, know where’s the exit. Don’t mind me lol)

It’s all thanks to OW fucked up netcode and how it manages high latency :. I’ve been stunned by McCree a couple of times while recalling or blinking, getting back magically to where McCree was. Not happened to me with Sombra, though.

imo they should’ve just made hook cancel translocator instead of making it break every time the enemy moves behind a pole

so i’ve been thinking... we have a mode in arcade that’s basically Retro Mode and it’s just plain overwatch but exactly like when the game came out, so no moira or brigitte and mercy huge rez will be there

still more balanced than brig and doomfist

GET OVER HERE!!! (MORTAL KOMBAT)

The hook was never a big deal. Even in it's weakest (fairest) iteration, Hog was still a great tank.

The damage reduction after the hook, so Tracer can zip away and heal up, that is the problem.

Oh my gosh....

I knew Hook 1.0 was bad, but i never imagined it was this powerful...

The average person looks at this and says 'Man, that hook is broken, they really need to nerf roadhog, can't believe they haven't fixed his hook yet.'

​

The average person doesn't realize it is roadhog that is the one getting fucked by this poorly designed hook. Look how much damage he took from sombra after pulling her. These hooks that you can't ever depend on make it way too hard to be useful most of the time and sometimes, you just end up hooking your own death by pulling some people in.

I hate new Roadhog. Old Roadhog was *built* to fuck shit up if you didn't work well together. If you got hooked it was on you. If you got one shot it was either cus you were too close and weren't respecting his space or he bodied you with a hard right click skillshot, both of which are fair reasoning. Now he's a wet blanket that's more support than tank and he is never picked in serious games, unless the dude playing is a Roadhog fanatic.

Nerf Sombra too then lol

Honestly, I like that hook breaks if you are behind a wall or teleport

What I don't like is that hook breaks because you looked at it funny, or the wind is moving to fast, or for some other arbitrary reason that doesn't make sense.

That and not killing people I hook. Why does shooting reaper in the head do <70 damage?

Good riddance. I got real tired of that hook.

Bring it back? We've truly come full circle now.

Aaah the good old days~

Roadhog was so fun to play then

Seeing this makes me appreciate all the sombra buffs too. That spread was AWFUL

I hated these days, don't glorify it :/

NANII\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~\~

Y E S I need this in my life again

Exactly what this game needs

I’m scared.

Anybody got a link to that video of hog booking a pharah through the window on lijiang garden, then pulling her all the way around the point? That one made me laugh

Hooked on a Feelin'

Make Hog Great Again?

Roadhog should be able to hook a friendly dva that is nuking. Itd be crazy, especially if the hook could go through friendly portals. Some crazy plays could be done with that

sigh...seems like only yesterday

I remember this clip!

The new hook really is broken though. Cant even count the amount of times I've turned for an environmental and my hook as broke because I turned too fast and broke LOS

What do you mean he is totally balanced now

No thanks

Said no one ever

As crazy as it seems, it was pretty balanced because 1/3 times it would do something like this, and 2/3 times it just wouldnt work at all

BOOP

Get over here -scorpion

Right through space and time... sweet

Hate it when people are serious about wanting the old hook back but then complain about brig shield stun

if Hog hooks an enemy which still has momentum to move behind a corner Hog still should be able to hook the enemy. That's how real hook would work. It doesn't make any sense for hook to come loose. But yeah if you teleport away then hook should break.

This video must be old.

DendiFace?

Execution is perfect.

"Where do you think you're going?"

HOOKED ON A FEELING NAN NA NA NAAAAAAAAAA

Those were the good old times

we need this.

you can't deny it.

ITT people crying about an easy to play around mechanic

Yes please

GET OOOOoooOOoOoOooOOOOOoOOOOOoooOOVER HERE

I like that the physics still work when the hook goes back to hog. Fun to watch it whip around corners and off walls.

wtf;;;

Fountain hook

Ahh fresh meat

Damm I miss og hog now

I-I-I-I-M Hooked on a feeling...

They kind of have with the momentum cancellation

No

Yes

rofl, listening to my gaming playlist while watching this, and started to notice the gif flows really well with DMX's "X Gon Give It To Ya".

OMAE WA MOU SHINDEIRU

but first, we need to talk about parallel universes.

As they say, through time and space

I want to be winston

They should make "Hook 1.0" an arcade event with no cooldowns.

BringBackOldHook

Please?

I thought it was just me, I mean I didn't get hooked from THAT far but the length of a bus.

I would really like an ability in costume games to revert heroes back to their previous version. Partly to experience original Mercy rez again but also because of ridiculous stuff like this that doesn’t exist anymore.

Roadhog used The Hand. (ZA HOOKU)

That is called a bot you spaz cunts

How?

Come here!

Hook 4.0 needs to be brought back, the last version of Hog that could one shot.

That was quite a hook you got there lol

"Roadgog's hook is working as intended."

Looks fair to me

I think she already got hooked and when she teleported the hook kept trying to hook her in

Yes!

No, don’t.

“Hold on, we’re going home” 🎶

What the actual fuck lol.

I really want to know what this looked like from the Roadhog's perspective

Now rein's hammer just hits you anywhere. Around corners and shit.

GET OVER HERE!

why did you shoot? he just wanted to give you a hug

hooked on a feeling

Old clip the cancel translocation thing is not there

Fountain hook flashbacks

Lmao jesus

Bring old no infinite invisibility sombra back.

Oh my fucking god I laughed so hard at this

Now that the power of The Ham Nation™. Don't ever question his girth!

Used to this video would make me angry but now its nostalgic

Trade-off: Brig for Old Hook back.

​

​

Fair trade to me..

'I'm freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee - whaht??????'

“Thing is, the game was rigged from the start”

Yesterday a roadhog hooked me while I was behind him, the killcam even showed that he tossed the hook and it went behind him.

Is this the new Mortal Kombat trailer?

Fundamentally broken.

Come with me now on a journey through time and space...

Excuse me what the fuck

Lmao game breakable, hook unbreakable

Can we let genji deflect d.va bombs too

I need this

TankMains miss this

It was so dumb I just couldn't get mad at it.

Was sombra even in this game when we had hook 1.0?

Yes, IIRC. It was awful. Sombra is a very old hero.

Goddamn time flies. I still think of her as a newer hero

[deleted]

It's more consistent now, but not guaranteed. Good hogs who know how to hook, back up during the pull, take a step forward right as they get to you, and then fire + melee will always confirm the kill, but the average Roadhog probably only kills 60-75% of the time still.

BAZZZAAAAAAAA

Aaah, The old days when being hooked means sudden death. Overwatch was actually fun.

<--- To be continued

Low key that was the only time OW was actually fun

And no I don't even play Hog

Ah yes, I remember those days. When you were Roadhog it was great and when you were Bazza it wasn't so great.

Ah remember when those guys were funny and good and relevant ? Seems so long ago now

Pepperidge Farm remembers!

Back when Roadhog was good. I miss him :(

Hooking people through walls wasn't real to life enough for people so they made Blizzard change it. Damn RPers ruining this game.

Is it just me or do you feel like we were assholes for complaing about Overwatch back in those days. For that bug yes but all the other stuff...

Nah some things were broken AF and needed to be nerfed/adjusted. It’s still that way

Bring Hook 1.0 back

shows Sombra and 1v1 mode

This is 3v3, which was added in the Christmas 2016 update. A full month before Hook 2.0

Damn, that update still feels new to me. Like, I know it's not, but it just feels like a "new feature". It's like my thoughts are stuck in the past

I don't think I'll ever enjoy this game as much as I did when Hook 1.0 and 4 shot weapon Roadhog was in the game. I wish they would bring it back.

This particular bug was with sombra, not Hog. This is back when she could die mid transport as well.

Considering how annoying Sombra is these days I wish they'd bring this back just for her.

Clip so old that Sombra has a legendary by now.