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A company I used to work for did this a lot. We'd slap together a proof-of-concept prototype, the PMs would take one look and say "Looks good! Ship it!" and not understand when told them it's only a prototype.
We started putting pictures of chickens in all our prototype UIs, so they were un-shippable.
âLooks good, replace the chickens and ship it tomorrow morning!â
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Have our art department change our logo to a chicken by the end of the week and ship it
I like you kid, you got guts. How would you like to have all the responsibilities of a manager, on top of your usual job, without any additional pay?
This fucking happened to me
Thats when you find a new job with your new experience and title`
I mean I'm definitely claiming it on my resume
I'm amazed how rarely people do that thought cause the think it's such a risk.
Itâs happening to me right fucking now. I even told them I do not want to be a manager. I declined the fucking position and they still expect the work.
For me it was "Hey, you're the expert on this project, how would you like to lead the team?" I thought it sounded like a good idea so they had me do it as a trial and then the trial never ended and my team was pulled away to do other stuff. So I became a team leader of no team. Then they decided that I'm probably a better technical lead than team lead (unclear what the difference is in my organization) and we'll track towards that in some number of years or something. My email signature still says team lead and I'm still paid in the same bracket as entry level.
You sound like a chump.
What the fuck?
If you haven't been fucked by a job, you probably haven't been working long. I trusted that my management would follow through with stuff because they had a history of being trustworthy but they spent most of that trust with this stunt. Won't happen again with this job, I'll tell you that much.
getting fucked by a job â allowing you're self to be continuously fucked over a period of time.
Eh, I count it as one incident. I'm also not sure why you're so invested in making sure that I know that I didn't come out on top in this situation. I'm aware.
You didn't come out on top because you knowingly allowed your self be taken advantage of.
Nah he fâed up, heâll probably remember it and not allow himself to get screwed ever again.
Me too. Meager pay increase & âYou lead the team now!â
Put it on your resume and find a new job.
Since that comment was two months ago, here's an update: I got promoted and got a pay increase after that but it was to a slightly different role.
Congrats. Sorry. Just found the subreddit and am going through it for fun.
You're good, no need to apologise. That was actually my plan at the time lol
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That is too high of a requirement, I say it is more of a capability of pressing the power button
Nah.. Hmm nah.. Not selling myself short, more changes lessopinions of public retribution then decisions can be made. My local community and family an surrounding suburbs of Sydney rely on business, strip back urgent project shambles.. Even major reform my families are paramount. . Project officers need to be accountable an i expect answers before I make any further business decisions. I'll be working from GEO PKA tomorrow. People want to contact me I am there.
I honestly have no idea what you just said
I'm not really sure what he's saying either, but it sounds like he knows what he's doing, and I think he needs to be promoted.
My pay went up 20% when I took a management position... Never accept that bullshit.
Perfect! We'll assign 180 people so we should be able to get it done in a day.
You have 2 chicken-months. Get it done.
Was this the requirements doc https://isotropic.org/papers/chicken.pdf
The actual presentation is better (though I wish he had thrown in a "hen" somewhere in the middle).
#ifdef CHICKENS
U got no idea hey
Do what Microsoft did, deeply integrate ~~Internet Explorer~~ the chicken's code into the rest of everything such that it can't be fully removed after half a decade of deprecation
I remember a project from my Uni days. It was me (programmer) and two artists to create art assets. We were making an MTG style game, where cards represent monsters.
One of the artists made themselves project lead, and we had weekly catch-up seminars to present progress to the class. The artists were also lazy fucks who didn't care.
In our first catch up I had cards built, and a couple of features in place using placeholder art. The card art was a blank image with the words "Card Art" on it. After seeing it he apologised for the art being bad, and asked me in front of everyone why the art was so plain:
"I have lots to program, and I'm not going to spend time on art that will just be replaced. This means that I can see the colours are right, and that the mapping is fine."
"Okay," says the team lead, "this is why you don't let the programmers do art."
Whatever. It was funny. I let it go.
Next week there were more placeholder assets. He asked me in the catch up when real art would go in. "As soon as you send it to me. I only have to change one line in the config file."
Not happy with this, he rags on programmer art for the rest of the catch up.
So the week after I replaced all the card art with cute My Little Pony fan arts.
Actual card art started to flow after that.
Now I want to make a bad Sonic OC card game.
Sounds like you found the perfect monster art on your own.
Well that's more mature than I would've done - I would have gone for gay porn cropped to be sfw
Nice
I don't really remember. The pictures weren't kept.
All I remember is this one made the project lead most upset. (At the time, the MLP thing was just becoming a thing. The word "brony" hadn't been coined yet, but I knew the guy absolutely hated that this kids TV show had such a fanbase.)
Love it
That combined with Programmer Pink should get the idea of prototypes across, haha.
I'm new to programming. What's Programmer Pink?
RGB(255, 0, 255). It is used in a ton of places as the color chosen for the invisible filler, but it's also used to show where a real color will go.
#FF00FF
Bright magenta basically. A color that's obviously not part of any real design and stands out horribly, making it very obvious that it isn't the real design.
You know the Source engine (Gmod, Half Life 2, etc.) Missing textures' pink part? Well that's colored in programmer pink, it's used because it stands out a lot and it's easy to remember (255,0,255 in RGB and FF00FF in Hex)
This is unfair to the chickens, calling them un-shippable.
How about using sheep then?
Just like that time where I made a fake demo for a meeting where all the output was hardcoded and when they asked for how long it would take to finish it, I answered and they replied "Why so long? It works, I've seen it!" Yeah sure, John, I'll give you the version where you have only one client and he's always charged the same amount. That will work out great for you!
I went through this a few times. The problem is, they focus on what they can see.
My solution, I started literally sketching prototype GUI's with paper and pencil, then scanned them.
It reinforced the concept of the prototype.
Lmao.
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Our client wants machine learning in his product. He doesn't know what yet but has promised it to his boss and clients. We have a month to learn machine learning, to learn what he actually want, to get approved designs and to make it. Like yeah, that's not happening. But it's okay because a guy on YouTube can use tensorflow and take some data and get some predictions in 15 min. We should be fine...
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I'll take a look, thanks for the resource!
Why did you use it for?
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Can you give us a name?
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Can you release the fully featured production version by the end of the week?
Why don't you use machine learning to figure out what the client wants?
Impossible to iterate in null or infinity.
Take the upvote, take all the blood upvotes.
But upvotes are orange, not red.
Kek
Ah yes, the 4chacha laugh
Depends on who is creating the masterpiece
A rubber hose is a machine that can be used to learn a lot of things from your clients.
Just put in a couple if statements and tell them it's machine learning. Most people can't tell the difference anyway
Put a dozen of ifelse one after another and call it an expert designed decision tree
Add a series of if-statements. Call it an intelligent platform. Done.
Client asks what that means? Say something about Bayesian Networks and random forests.
This girl at work just won an award for how she created an extensible database architecture. When we wanted to expand she literally just removed some filters.
Why is bayesian theory everywhere ? I read only the math
https://www.johndcook.com/blog/2009/04/28/reasons-to-use-bayesian-inference/
Modelling using conditional probability based on your observed data is far more accurate that what frequentist statistics can do
Project manager in 1999, but if youâre not having this discussion with your scrum master in 2018 just resign
Our scrum master reassigned for "budget reasons" (telling higher ups that we needed more time or more devs to produce the expected results in the timeframe they want).
We havnt got a new one 6 months on, and the dev team will now only do exactly as is on the ticket. Management seem to have found the magical money tree they misplaced, and we are getting more devs. (No mention of scrum master yet)
Similar story for us. It's great when the whole team is on board to not work unpaid overtime and take part in a little malicious compliance.
Can you see any reason to continue to work there during one of the hottest years for the developer labor market?
Yup, great pay, great benefits package, amazing team and a manager who will bend over backwards to get the team what they need where possible, great work/life balance.
Ultimately I love my job, just not the product team I am working with for now. I won't be working with them once the product is delivered in the next few months anyway.
I'm trying. We don't Scrum, we don't program for maintainability, I've only been able to successfully schedule one code review.
MoVe FaSt AnD bReAk ThInGs
Often quite literally.
Do you guys use version control and a central repo (GitHub, gitlab, bitbucket)? If not you can try to explain the value of everyone doing a code review for every pull request (hopefully only a few lines changed) from the comfort of their desks. My coworker and I had to deploy our own gitlab repo because we were tired of scheduling code reviews.
I usually use Google drive for version control. Its much more efficient than when I was using dropbox.
Please be /s
Do you guys use version control and a central repo (GitHub, gitlab, bitbucket)?
Wait, what is the alternative? A bunch of files called code.js, code-old.js, cold-old-2.js and code-final-REAL.js scattered in a dir?
I've heard of teams that email code around. They refuse to even use a central .git server because they didn't want to learn a version control system
It depends on the project. We have a couple dozen engineers scattered globally, but only a handful work on overlapping projects.
I was in this boat forever. Now we have sooo much tech debt that it takes a whole 3 days and 6 engineers to publish a website and no one knows why it breaks. ...
Ours goes into a physical product, it honestly blows my mind that anything goes to production.
Do we work at the same place...
You don't even have a project manager, you have a manager
I don't know why, this just stung the most.
Is that the guy who mutters to himself "somehow we'll manage...somehow we'll manage...somehow we'll manage"?
Yup.
Ah, the old bedroom hacker model. Occasionally useful, mostly a headache.
1) No checkins without a code review.
2) The name of the person who did the code review goes in the checkin description.
3) Checkins without a reviewer in the description are rejected by the source control system.
Where does this magical world exist ;_;
âSchedulingâ code reviews..?
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I got one, moved four thousand miles. While things aren't perfect, since I'm fixing up legacy code that's effectively in the same boat as my last job, we have a very aggressive review plan which has gained traction with the Electrical Engineers who support my team!
You are doing it wrong. There is no programming for maintainability and you also should not ask for extra time cleaning up or doing code reviews.
You are a professional: you do what makes sense and in a way that the customer is happy with the end result. No professional is going to ask his boss if he can work professionally. Similarly no manager will pay extra for a professional if he works like an entry level guy.
Don't make your code too generic (YAGNI) but don't make it too specific (should be easy to test and be built for the obvious follow ups).
If you have to touch a part that has issues take some time to clean it up if it makes sense. Client asks you to fix a bug? Take a bit of extra time and clean up more. Client asks for a feature? Inflate your estimation a bit (if you are required to give estimates in days) and clean things up. Just don't go overboard and keep it reasonable.
You can always argue that things are a mess and that's why it takes you longer to do their things. Normal management works with numbers, not feelings. Only if something impacts their numbers they will start to listen.
Just ask your coworker to take a quick look at your pull request and explain to him what it does. No need to mention the word review, just ask for his opinion.
There is no need to do Scrum to be successful, just don't do big bang development where things go untested til the very end. Always have something working and check that your PM is up to date on which features/bugs are still open and if there are issues. Also ask him to prioritize features since you will absolutely need to cut some regardless of what methodology you follow.
The only thing that you probably can't fix is a missing test suite or too little coverage.
There is no need to do Scrum to be successful, just don't do big bang development where things go untested til the very end.
Isnât that just scrumming without calling it that?
Scrum has a very specific model of project management. There is no need to do everything by the book but taking some inspiration out of it isn't wrong. Incorporate small things that make sense
Yeah but I donât think that was the point. I think the guy just wants a more organized approach to their projects. He just used scrum as a catch all
Everyone calm down on trending threads major delay in commenting.. Technical oversight
Just ask your coworker to take a quick look at your pull request and explain to him what it does. No need to mention the word review, just ask for his opinion.
I don't have a discretionary fund and we've got our git pretty tightly guarded. Otherwise, everyone is told to ONLY work on their project - if you're on a solo project, have fun writing that OS from scratch.
Your Melbourne trolling isn't helping atm but thanks honey, I know you love your family however people have eyes they can see an hear... So in your defence leave it to the professionals. Have a little faith in mankind please x
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Can we also have a ManagerManager?
My singleton senses are tingling now, darn.
But you are highly valued member of the team, trust in peers is fundamental
That's your executive body (in charge of the overall business) and your IT governance body (in charge of service alignment).
Speakkkkingggg
We have to get one from the ManagerManagerFactory, but it's still being built by the ManagerManagerFactoryFactory.
We have both. We also have leads between the pm and scrum masters and change managers within the team.
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Who has the money to staff a full time developer? We contract that out for the same money we would have paid a local dev. Business logic.
In my experience, having a PMP is an absolute must, and having a scrum master is a bonus. PMPs have 35 hours of education, pass a very difficult test, and have to prove previous PM experience to get PMP. For scrum certification you can sit a 1.5 day seminar and pass an open-book test.
The 3 years experience required for PMP is literal gold. The amount of times I've seen some retard fresh exec try and turn a dev into a scrum master for an extra $0.50 an hour in a week... Of course at the time I was being paid to come in and fix their fuckups for a solid 10x the cost, so it wasn't too bad.
Biggest issue being they always blame the new scrum 'master', never the fuckstick exec.
Scrum master has severely contributed to Western Sydney conflict, and manipulated staff to her convenience.. we need to productively sort this without the whole office privy. Because I have family who are not in good state of mind taking advantage of my situation, detrimential to any further discussion.
What if youâve been a successful dev so youâre asked to be the scrum master (on the side) and also a project tech lead, all while still being on the oncall rotation and making progress on other projects.
Being a good dev makes you a good scrum master like being a good drinker makes you a good brewer. It's the fundamental flaw in 'merit based' promotions and the cause of the Peter Principle.
The overworked part just makes it worse.
Yep. Unfortunately itâs hard to justify ânoâ since it feels like turning down career progression.
Hahhha so many idea... Such inexperience.. Wow less opinions more observing kids
Scrum like in rugby?
Scrum is a software development work management strategy, although it does take its name from rugby. Basically break project into "sprints" (no more than a month of work) and every day you have a daily scrum (named that because it kinda resets the work like a scrum resets play) where you realign everyone on the team to make sure development is going at the pace it needs to. Anything slowing down development is considered a risk and kept track of.
Thanks, that's really cool
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It's all kind of funny to me, because the original idea of agile development specifically had a lower case 'a', it was not "Agile: The Methodology". One of the original tenets of being agile in project management was "people over processes". There are all these wacky words that were borrowed and made up from other places and now we have things like Scrum Masters "calling the shots", as it were (even though that's not what they're supposed to do?).
I just think it's interesting how people took an idea that was basically, "don't do everything exactly by the book," wrote a book for it, and then tout that "Agile" should be done such-and-such a way. Oh well.
Agile
No, Scrum is the name for a way of organizing work for (software)development. It's a bit more complicated than this, but in essence you organize your time to do a limited amount of tasks for an allotted period of time, and afterwards review how the amount of work done can be maximized.
Scrum is an agile project management methodology. Not strictly for software development, can be applied to almost any project. Originally it didn't start with a software project, even.
It is inspired by rugby, where the game is divided in several sprints (literal sprints), with a meeting scrum in the middle to reset play.
If you're lucky and everything goes great you just end up building a top down model the slowest and most painful way possible. The only way it resembles rugby is the pain.
This is why developers should never report to PMs. Stand up to them and tell them no.
My PMs just ask the developers how much time they need and then we accept their answer unless itâs total bullshit. I feel like my department is in the minority with that behavior
A good PM will ask engineering for an estimate, then multiply that by 4 and that's what you tell management.
"We need 3 years for a hello world"
"1 more if you want the first letter capitalized, add another for a period at the end."
Those are good PMs to have, but even better would be PMs with some idea of the work involved, especially when it's the same as numerous other projects you have successfully managed and delivered on time.
I think people like to complain about the worst types of management in thus sub and make them seem more common than they are. Almost everyone I've dealt with believes developers in their time estimates.
back when I was test lead for a company that was trying to update a legacy big ball of mud, the project manager would start by asking a dev how long a feature would take
"oh just two or three days!"
Then he'd ask me. I ask how long the dev had given, double it, then add another week and a half for all the show-stopping bugs that would come to light in regression testing :(
Which is worse: project managers, or former (mediocre) developers who have no concept of the complexity that goes into modern development and assume itâs as simple as âback in my day (when all code was synchronous and you only had a text UI)â?
Developers that think complexity goes into modern development.
There's an important difference between complex and complicated. Modern development is very, VERY complex. Ideally it is also very, VERY simple. The opposites there are trivial and complicated.
Maybe youâre trolling or being pedantic, but there is a world of difference between having a terminal communicate with a server via TCP over a LAN and having multiple distinct clients on different platforms communicate with a web server over the internet. Latency, security, statelessness, UX, UI toolkits, etc, are all massive paradigm shifts and knowledge requirements. A project fulfilling user requirement X under the old paradigm would be much easier to estimate and develop. So if you have an old timey developer looking at line-item end-user features and trying to manage a team, it can cause a variety of issues for everyone.
To be fair: there are a lot of embedded programmers who are lucky to have a text UI to debug with.
But you really don't need to do as much work nowadays, if you have C++11 or newer, you're golden.
Well look at this guy, getting to work with his fancy new âC++â language
In that case, give them a text only program and see how long it takes for them to change their mind
Project manager: "What? But it works. Just move on to the next feature, we don't have time to go back and redo things."
BlueHole is that you?
Thankfully this isnât a problem I have any more. But when I did I made sure it didnât actually work for this reason. Hard coded data etc. Literally nothing but the demo view of the app. Perhaps even nothing useable.
While the marketâs good we need to find the places that donât do this kind of thing and let the others wither.
I call it "protoduction."
Thatâs a PM that didnât do a sufficient work breakdown structure. They should have budgeted time for building for demo vs final product, or gotten building started earlier SMH
Or with agile, put it in the backlog and it will remain there until the product owner puts priority on the issue. Realistically, if the CEO has the issue itâs in the next or current release.
If I had more time, I would have written less code.
I dont know anything about programming but this still pissed me off
Spikes are useful as long as everyone involved understands that the code is disposable.
If your PM is the type to keep pressing forward, then the thing they're told is "we can't get a demo up that fast."
We call this "poc (proof of concept) to production" and then everyone wonders why it takes 6 hours to deploy what should be a button press.
"it just works"
Support: And they'll need time to properly document all the features and configurations, right guys? Guys?
That triggered me
Hey that was my experience as an employee for a contracting company!
The project: Sonic 2006
I have a bad case of gastritis right now. I need to block this thread.
This kills me.
Sad thing is, itâs like a fucking disease spreading throughout every industry.
This explains so much about every application I have ever used.
About the 10s thing, since he used 2 extra seconds (20%): Client: We gave you 20% more time and it still doesn't work! WHY?
Not enough SYNERGY
Not to mention the complete absence of AI and MACHINE LEARNING.
I think it's about time we introduce a BLOCKCHAIN to tie this project together. That's the only way we can empower our BIG DATA.
It's like he's not even trying to discover global solutions smh
something something cloud computing
Thanks for that comment. Now Iâm just angry
And then implement these solutions into our IoT!
Ya talking about the server lineup?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyV_UG60dD4
There's no way they'd round 12.8 down to 12 though.
But they'd bill you for 13
He used 28.4% more time not just 20%.
I love the fact that he changed the 10 to 12 seconds. Like even if you want it to be finished, it still 'takes time'
Which triggers an RCA on why the project was late.
Which leads to even more delay and annoyed devs. This is sadly familiar...
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8 people in a useless hour-long meeting = 1 man-day wasted.
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I don't like most meetings, but I know when a meeting is a waste of time.
When it's being held to discuss the same mind numbing topic again for the 5th time, and only 2-3 people are arguing the exact same points back and forth for an hour, and then the 2-3 people turn to blast the rest of the people in the meeting for "not contributing" to their utterly inane and pointless squabble?
I struggle to stay awake in most long meetings. But in those kind of meetings, it takes some next level self-induced pain to keep my eyes open.
How long is that in woman-days?
And everyone just sat there and let him talk for 45 minutes? Didn't the meeting have some purpose and someone with authority over him to get it to the actual topic?
Same folks who whinge at length about reposts in joke subreddits
Lets fire up some action plans!
Make sure we increase the rate of status meetings.
All they need to do is add 4 more artists. bam, 1 minute version.
"oh yeah, listen up. we have heard of [buzzword feature], can you please incorporate it into the project? what? no, we cannot give you more time. that would mess with that nice gantt-chart i drew earlier in ms-paint! look just...just put it in there. if you need more time cut some of the testing. you are supposed to write good code at the first try anyway."
"testing. nobody ist 'testing' anything else in this office. i can write six pages of report without some idiot proofreading it. why cant those code-monkeys?"
We prefer the term "code janitor".
Codestodian, dick!
Oh... hey, Scientist.
Please, call me Pychologist.
Such a good movie. Maybe I'll watch it today.
It's been too long for me too. :)
Masters of the code custodial arts.
Yeh I rate that shii too haha
It's pronounced Juan Itor.
Dr Jan Itor
My default reply is "Ever seen a joiner work without measuring or checking angles? Do you know why that is?".
That's the end of the conversation. Don't carry on, don't further explain, do not discuss any further points they may have. Just stare at them levely till they leave.
Or an author that doesn't read what he writes
Imagine if a publisher started shipping books with no proof reading or editing. Author writes first draft. Ships it.
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Hot. Hot. Hot! /s
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You gotta remember these guys probably put every task on manual in ms project instead of auto schedule so changes would require a whole remake of the file.
I know It's not your opinion, but if someone makes a typo in Most documents, it dosn't make the whole thing Ussless
The human mind is the most flexible compiler.
Th hmn mnd s th mst flxble cmplr. Sm lnggs skp vwls ntrly bcs thyr ncssry. Bt nt lwys.
And don't compare buggy code to Ussless, he worked very hard to get here!
Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?
Why say lot word, few word better!
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.
Wait, why the hell does my previous comment show up as "None" on mobile but an empty comment on desktop? God dammit Reddit
python?
Reddit's backend is largely written in Python but that doesn't explain why the mobile site and desktop site handle comments differently at that point.
đ
đ
I can never remember the example that got him to stop..was it "see"
See world vs Seaworld
Yes! Thanks.. he talks about going to "se(e/a) world" and they can't figure whether he was going to see the world or to sea world.
Happy cake day
Ugh, I felt like I had a stroke reading your second sentence.
I know what you were trying to do but it doesnât work nearly as well if you overload the brain with those typos.
In ordr for the brain to fll in those mstskes you need to give t a proper point of refrece. That way the brain can understand the context of what is being said and fll in the rest.
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Unless you're an attorney, then one misplaced comma can totally change the meaning of something.
The real /u/commahorror
Wait so I am not suppose to place a comma before the and when listing things? That seems ass backwards from everything that was taught to me since a child.
Article states: Donât write âtrailers, semitrailers, and pole trailers,â it says â instead, write âtrailers, semitrailers and pole trailers.â
Boy did you just open a can of worms.
From my perspective, you can pry the Oxford comma from my cold dead hands. But it's currently out of vogue and a lot of style guides recommend avoiding it. People spend a lot of time fighting over it, though. That case I linked to is just one example.
Really no idea why though. Style be damned. If it's more ambiguous without the comma, I'm putting the comma in every time.
For the basic case of poles, trailers and semitrailers it's pretty clear-cut. But sometimes it's useful to add a comma when you have more complicated things in the list, like in the example.
He removed all the vowels rather than it being just straight up typos.
"The human mind is the most flexible compiler. Some languages skip vowels entirely because they're unnecessary. But not always."
but he did that by repeating the first sentence. So we knew he just skips vowels and our mind can fill the gaps. It worked fine for me, just slightly harder and ambiguous. Did he mean necessary or unnecessary, but skipped one n?
What's your best interpretation of it?
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Glad Iâm not the only one.
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I kind of think word choice is the killer here, even with vowels often here sounds wrong so it takes longer to settle on it.
Hwvr, smtms vwls hlp.
Even without the punctuation that would be easier to read, I think.
ndd
Need help for the second sentence.
Some Inggs skip vowels not really because they're necessary. But not lwys.
Some languages skip vowels entirety because they're unnecessary. But not always.
Though it seems OP missed an 'n' in unnecessary.
Hahhha read that clear as Bell u aightt..
Interestingly, I read "ntrly" as "naturally" instead of "entirely", and I'm only now noticing naturally should have 2 L's... But still interesting that 2 words that look very different with vowels are spelled almost identically without vowels.
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
That's kinda moving the goalpost. If someone makes a typo in some label or CSS background color, it also definitely doesn't make the whole thing useless. If someone makes a typo in a legally binding contract, it may be a disaster.
Depends on who? And what.. Don't ask me sticky questions.. I might get embarrassed haha
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no, am still busy rewriting everything in rust
That's when you say "no". Have y'all got no balls?
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When youâre good enough at this, you learn to say no. You can get a new job with more pay more easily than they can replace you.
This. Developing and any IT related jobs are buyers market. We constantly need more of them. This might change a day... But that day won't be before multiple decades.
I live in one of the hotter tech markets in the US and there are something around 3 or 4 jobs available for every tech worker. That will change, but still, wow.
It probably won't for a while though. I mean if anything the need of skilled IT techs is going up for now.
How so?
Where do you live?
And when it's changed, enough people have technical know-how to estimate the time needed.
That really depends on location and specialty. Midwest? Embedded Systems? Good luck there.
You're in /r/ProgrammerHumor. Unless you're terrible, any programmer can basically go shit on their bosses desk then burn the place down, put their CV on monster and have 5 job offers within the week.
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I mean... thats the case of most industries. Im not expected great O&G jobs in Nevada either. However, there are some IT jobs that allow you to work from wherever assuming you have a decent internet connection so its not as insular as most.
They may have balls to say no but have a line manager that says just get it done because the PM's already committed it to the customer without checking with the devs...
"It's not possible."
It's amazing what a few layers of management can do, changes impossible to it will be done in time in a heartbeat.
We're not all freelance, sometimes this idiocy comea from project managers in your own organisation.
What happens is you tell them 6 weeks, they tell you and the client 2 weeks, then when it takes 6 weeks they try and scapegoat you until you send their boss all the emails.
Again, that's on you. You need to learn how to navigate such waters. First you need written proof that you said right away that it wasn't possible in 2 weeks. Email your N+1 as soon as you are made aware that he doesn't want to hear that it takes 6 weeks. Then as soon as someone tries to scapegoat you, you point that email out: your manager failed go exploit the resources he has at his disposition correctly. Not you.
I literally described the scenario you're advising in my second sentence. Did you get that far?
In these moments I usually just flood them with dubious technical terms/reasoning as to why this is ridiculous and do it so quickly that even einstein himself couldn't keep up.. At which point they'll usually just nod and walk away mystified.
No, we have no balls, but we do have our jobs. You can't always buy food and pay rent with just "balls" buddy.
Sure. But that's when you tell them that it won't be possible. You tell them you can't compress man hours because you are no magician.
Being honest does not mean being rude. You go and be honest. Don't sugarcoat it. No boss worth anything will ever dislike that. And if that ever gets you fired, you're better off working elsewhere.
Itâs a catch 22 because for every dev that has the balls to say no, thereâs 10 others that will say yes.
And whatâs worse is that of those 10 there are a few that will kill them selves to make the deadline and make it functional, further adding to managementâs warped view that âit can be done.â
So those that say no donât always have the bargaining power.
The 10 others that said yes will fail. Don't stay in a work environment that is toxic for you in a buyers market. We're lucky to work in IT and to be able to have that freedom, it's a shame to let people walk on us.
I have 6 active requests from recruiters on LinkedIn and over 150 of my contacts on there are recruiters. I get a request a day for a new job. I haven't responded to a single one in over a year and it still keeps happening. Why can't you just leave?
Maybe your balls can't. Mine have a pretty comfortable salary
And then they either keep asking you to do it, get someone else to do it or force you to do it by implying you'll be deducted pay.
The only chance you've got of "no" working is if the client is understanding and you explain yourself well. But that's rare, especially if they're using buzzwords like the OP described.
Deduction of pay? Where do you work??
If the project has been outlined properly, there should be little wiggle room for the client to massively change their mind.
Or if they work in an agile environment, just tell them they've paid for X sprints and adding the feature will add more
Or maybe that your pedagogy isn't always great. Maybe that you're not convincing. Also maybe that you usually cave in and therefore basically showed them that your "no" has no weight.
Okay, but not being convincing and not having balls aren't the same thing.
Honestly? You sound like a pushover pretending to be the tough guy you wish you were. But convincing people usually aren't assholes. Telling someone they don't have balls isn't convincing. It's kind of the opposite of that; if you attack, people dig in to defend. You know how you want to hit back because I called you a pushover? See how that didn't convince you of anything except that we're enemies? That's what you're doing. It doesn't work. Try something else.
I never said this was the same thing.
Your point falls apart.
Your actions are not furthering your goals.
Do you guys not have contracts written up?
Or is it all instagram messages these days?
I'm lucky that I can tell my boss "No, can't do that in time for that release" and he accepts it. We got a humongous backlog of features that no one had time to implement. And often if someone else does it, I have to completely rewrite them later on to make them not blow-up when optional data is missing.
[buzzword feature]
"Make sure it uses blockchain technology"
nobody ist 'testing'
German programmer detected?
Damn there are some shitty project managers in the world. What a useless person.
"oh yeah, could you put the app on this... Blockchain, too?"
I made a simple website for someone while in college (for very cheap because I needed the money) and my client randomly started insisting on incorporating "machine learning" even though it was completely irrelevant to the site and well beyond my skillset to do so. Was agonizing to explain to her that it was both unnecessary and irrelevant to the site. She'd clearly just heard the the phrase at some point and thought it would make her site super cool and hip.
BLOCKCHAIN!!!
Lucky I love ya but piss off.. Haha
ist
when the german kicks in
Just hire 60 artists and they can do the 10 minute version in 10 seconds, duh.
What one programmer can do in one month two programmers can do in two months.
2.5 months*
Iâm sorry you said you wanted it done in 3 months?
This project is S L I P P I N G đ¨ We need to get a task force put together STAT I want a daily report on the progress of figuring out why this project isnât finishing. And donât even give me that âbut wonât this just take longer than doing the workâ bullshit!!!
Daily reports!
Daily reports are nice and all, but have you tried daily reports that have to be entered into a clunky, antiquated reporting system in a specific format that requires manual entry because it doesn't conform to the existing logging system that everyone is already using to track their work?
That sounds PERFECT. Please design this system and have a copy of that design on my desk in the morning. We will need to iterate quickly on this, so please also set up a meeting with key stakeholders for every day this week
Oh yeah also you update the spreadsheet with progress on the milestones for Project Z? That should be your top priority, I need it by tomorrow.
Donât forget you are on call tomorrow, I want the ticket queue burndown to happen as the team has agreed to.
You just gave me a seizure, 3 months ago. Thanks.
Blast from the past.
But in all seriousness, I really appreciate this work, and youâre setting a great example for the team. Looking forward to seeing the document tomorrow. Also - Steve just spoke with me and thereâs apparently some metric anomalies on one of the servers. Could you quickly take a look and send out an update, or ask another team member to do so if you canât? Have a nice night!
Diminishing returns
It's literally one of the most true statements. Our workplace requires us to work in a team project on something of our choice during our first year of employment. 6 months later, a very simple project is finally finished. We were basically required to do 2-3 months of planning, and then the "lead developer" was given full creative control but he didn't have a lot of time to work on it, and he didn't have a working knowledge of the system we were going to be implementing our project on.
After all was said and done, we had a crappy implementation of what should have been a simple piece of software that would need to be changed for each different system it was implemented on and rebuilt.
I sat down at my desk one day, wrote a "revamp" of the software (as in, I threw away everything and started over from scratch using my working knowledge of the system). In 3 hours, I had a much cleaner implementation of the idea with the ability to be configured to work on any system it needed to be implemented on without changing the source code. It also trimmed a lot of the garbage in the first iteration that was built on inexperience.
3 months of development time vs. 3 hours. Now to be fair, the 3 month design did serve as a prototype, so I already had knowledge of pitfalls, but even then, at worst the project should have taken no more than a couple of days if done by a single developer. It's when you have to converse with a team and get everyone in a room together over every small decision that it becomes a nightmare.
need to be changed for each different system it was implemented on and rebuilt.
"Just code it in Python lol"
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It'd take so much longer than 10 minutes to coordinate 60 artists to do the right 10 second pieces.
Well, we just get one artist to draw it first, then we put a grid on it and show it to the other 64 so they can draw it really fast.
Give them the 10 second sketch as map for what belongs in their area.
I like your gumption kid
We used to do this in I think middle school? It was like a black and white Mona Lisa and everyone had to paint a 6" square. The end result was uhhhhh interesting
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Right, Im expecting the baby to be done in 3 months then.
I actually think there's a lot of parallels between artists' work and programmers', so most of these statements apply to both professions
Yeah but then you end up with a shitty Spiderman face
Top quality content right here
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right here
Top quantent.
My Dad always said working on the car would only take an hour or two. Six hours later we'd give up.
Same, but it was more like six hours later we'd drive to the store right before it closed to buy the tool we were trying to avoid having to go buy and subsequently finish the job easily in 15 minutes.
Man this hits home. I remember me and dad trying for five hours to get a wheel off the car that somehow got stuck. Then we drove to my.dad workplace where they have a tool designed for exactly that purpose. 15 minutes later we were done and I was like: "I may not be a mechanic like you but why exactly didn't we do that from the start?" and he said: "I didn't think it'd be that bad."
From then on, whenever the annual wheel change is on he brings the tool with him when he gets home the day before. Lesson learned.
he brings the tool with him when he gets home
Im glad he stopped forgetting to bring you home!
I just spilled the coke I was ~~doing~~ drinking , thanks to your comment
What do you mean this expensive chain breaker and front stand would make life so much easier?
Fuck, this is too accurate.
âDad, we need this tool.â
âYeah, but thatâs basically just a slightly modified type of this tool that I already have. Thatâs why they put shit like this on cars, so you either have to buy the tool or take it to them to get repaired. Iâll just modify the tool I have to get it close.â
âI donât think it works like that...â
fast forward 5 hours
âFuck, Autozone closes in 15 minutes. Take my card and go buy the damn tool.â
goes and buys tool and brings it back
âAw hell, that made everything so damn easy didnât it, son?â
âYeah, thatâs kind of what I said at the beginning.â
âYeah, I wish we would have had this sooner.â
Rinse and repeat variations of this conversation any time a new part broke on any of our vehicles. Why are dads so damn stubborn?
Ah memories
Spring compressors? I donât think so pal I just bought a bag of 1000 zip-ties yesterday
As a mechanic, it irritates me when customers expect a six hour job be finished in two hours. And for the first hour they're still deciding wether to do the work or not. We're not going to disassemble and fix it until it's okayed.
THIS!!! IT DRIVES ME NUTS!!
https://xkcd.com/349/
What ever happened with that? Were they able to fix it? Did the lady get in trouble?
Nope, but it's now a major tourist attraction which is far more popular than the original painting so I guess it all worked out OK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecce_Homo_(Mart%C3%ADnez_and_Gim%C3%A9nez,_Borja)
Ecce Homo (MartĂnez and GimĂŠnez, Borja)
The Ecce Homo (Behold the Man) in the Sanctuary of Mercy church in Borja, Spain, is a fresco painted circa 1930 by the Spanish painter ElĂas GarcĂa MartĂnez depicting Jesus crowned with thorns. Both the subject and style are typical of traditional Catholic art.While press accounts agree that the original painting was artistically unremarkable, its fame derives from a good faith attempt to restore the fresco by Cecilia GimĂŠnez, an untrained elderly amateur, in 2012. The intervention transformed the painting and made it look similar to a monkey, and for this reason it is sometimes known as Ecce Mono (Behold the Monkey).
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That's actually amazing. This is the best possible outcome.
She got in trouble. But an incredibly small and unimportant town/church has become a major tourist destination, so she did the local economy a lot of good.
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Yeah, but...
GimĂŠnez has sought a share of the royalties. GimĂŠnez's lawyer said that she wanted her share of the profits to help muscular dystrophy charities, because her son suffers from the condition.
Man, she just gets more and more wholesome.
Not to be cynical, but it's likely a facade to make her intentions seem more wholesome.
Not that I don't believe she would donate some to charity, but she also probably just wants money. I mean, who doesn't?
Thatâs the intention she used but no one knows if she actually donated. Huge chance she did not.
A churchgoing 80-year-old with a sick son who volunteered to restore an old painting doesn't strike me as the type to pocket the money.
Well she did hire a lawyer and sued the church in order to get a part of the profit.
/r/retiredmeme
So WoW went tits up after wotlk?
Pretty much
Cataclysm had some decent changes that made sense, like hunters got focus and unlimited ammo, and did remove some annoying stuff, like spell buying. I think everybody wanted world flying.
But after that, they went crazy with stripping everything down, like removing talent trees!, and fucking with things nobody could have asked for, like removing profession bonuses. You essentially don't roll for loot; they just give you what you need. I think gear even adjusts to your level to some extent. Mobs adjust to your level. It's fucking lunacy. Today's WoW is a shell of its former self.
Mists added companion pet battles, which, for real, was the coolest thing ever. But that can't make up for all the slashing of the actual game that occurred.
The trend they're on is going to see the game have no penalties for anything, and no incentives to do well; no need for skill whatsoever. Group wipe? No problem. You all start at the entrance and teleport to the boss. There's no incentive to forming questing groups because ungrouped people get credit for ungrouped kills.
Soon enough, you'll just start at max level and press one key to win. You'll just log in, collect your daily bonuses, and play mini games.
But, hey, we got furry sex appeal. Can't deny those pandas are thicc.
Legion was fun, just got stale, bfa isnt great iirc havent played it since release
DAE nostalgia is best??! Wrath was better than BC in almost every way.
Hibiki best boat
"I love deadlines, they make a great 'wooshing' sound as they fly by"
Douglas Adams
âIt always does seem to me that I am doing more work than I should do. It is not that I object to the work, mind you; I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. I love to keep it by me: the idea of getting rid of it nearly breaks my heart.
You cannot give me too much work; to accumulate work has almost become a passion with me: my study is so full of it now, that there is hardly an inch of room for any more. I shall have to throw out a wing soon.
And I am careful of my work, too. Why, some of the work that I have by me now has been in my possession for years and years, and there isnât a finger-mark on it. I take a great pride in my work; I take it down now and then and dust it. No man keeps his work in a better state of preservation than I do.
But, though I crave for work, I still like to be fair. I do not ask for more than my proper share.â
â Jerome K. Jerome, Three Men in a Boat (1889)
Username checks out.
As a photographer, I can relate. I will quote a client a time during which they will have a completed (editing, retouching, etc.) product.
Almost every client gives me the same answer. "That's not fast enough" or "I need these in 1 day".
Motherfucker, you are not my only client.
Fucking hate this, my whole workday is filled with this kind of shit:
"Can we deliver this week?" "No we fucking can't!!" "But the customer is important to our company."
I usually treat the deadline as optional and do my best to get it done, then I'll go home and slowly drink myself to death.
Actually his isnât a bad approach. If you arenât consulted on a deadline, itâs not your fault if it doesnât get met. Iâd consider any deadline set without my consultation to be optional and just do my best. Then if they complain when itâs missed, Iâll pull out the email where I told them not to make promises without consulting me.
Hereâs the secret: half the time, sales people and their customers are so disorganized that they donât even notice that their âdeadlineâ has passed by without delivery. YMMV of course because there certainly are clients who do care about that sort of thing a great deal. But there are just as many others where the client wonât even be on top of things enough to even look at what you did until months after delivery.
What would you say/do in that case?
Pull down my pants and shit on the conference table.
We just had a huge stink about this at our company recently. The sales guys were selling the product, and the customer wanted a new feature. The sales guys pulled a date out of their ass for some big feature, which causes the devs to work nights and weekends for months. The solution we're trying is to have a technical consultant whenever a contract is written up so the sales guys stop promising features and guessing how long they'd take to implement. I guess this should have been the case all along...
Yeah, been there done that.
What I ended up doing is actually requiring the sales teams to work with a product owner whenever they make promises of any new feature that doesnât already exist. Then any development work required gets written down in a statement of work to make explicit what the customer actually requires as a condition of the sale. This also forces them to seriously consider whether they really need it, and lets us make real requirements and a realistic estimated timeline for delivery. It also prevents goalpost shifting down the road.
But, good luck with that. By their nature, sales people will promise anything to make a sale. Itâs the job of management to reel them back into reality and to actually listen to developers when they tell them the effort and resources required. How successful you are that often depends on how good your managers are at navigating the often fraught politics of the relationship between sales departments and development teams.
"Then why did you put us in a situation to piss them off"
sulk
A. Speed
B. Cheap
C. Good
Choose 2. Your choices will lack the option that is left over.
Actually the triangle according to the late great Bernie mac is
A. Easy
B. Cheap
C. Good
I guess speed goes along with easy though!
I like
A. Cheap
B. Quick
C. Right
The only thing you shouldn't pick is A and B. Guess what management usually picks.
Shouldn't it be Fast/Cheap/Good or Speed/Low Cost/Quality, so that they're all the same type of words?
He wrote the comment quickly and didn't charge for it, so this is what you get.
A. Speed â
B. Cheapâ
C. Goodâ
Checks out!
Yup. If I choose Cheap and Good, then Speed is the only byproduct. Doesn't specify whether it's fast or slow and, given the choice, I'll sacrifice slow speed, please.
Fast, Cheap, Good is what I use, guess it should really be "Soon, Cheap, Good" or something along those lines
Fast, Cheap, Good
all adjectivesSoon, Cheap, Good
adv adj adj
2 degrees of freedom.
Remodeling a house right now. This is spot-on.
I fail to see how âgoodâ and âcheapâ can go together even with the sacrifice of âspeedâ.
On another note, Iâll take some cheap speed, sure.
In the construction world, we have, A. fast B. Cheap C. safe.
Yes, we will have speed, cheap and good. Thank you very much for providing the choice.
Where can I get things that are cheap and good if I don't care about speed?
Ok, do it fast and good. Youâre a FT employee and donât get paid differently for a project.
Aren't speed and cost essentially the same thing?
Hey bud wanna grab a drink?
"Sure, I can be there in $20, sound good?"
Yeah sounds great.
In short, no, no they're not.
That's so true
Fucking lol
[deleted]
You have to explain that one
If I work for 2 hours, it is twice as costly as if I work for 1 hour.
Not If you're on a salary and that extra time is beyond your usual work hours. Then it's saving money ;)
Speed and cost are inherently linked, but the implication is that you can complete the job faster with more resources ($). Obviously there is a limit to that - 9 women can't have a baby in a month. But maybe I pay you overtime, or improve your tools, or get you an intern, etc.
No they arenât. You could get away with that oversimplification for jobs where technically the only cost is someoneâs time, but for jobs that require material, sometimes itâs faster and/or better to buy the expensive stuff.
Sorry, I was specifically referring to the context of the parent comment and software development.
Ah, I see. You think cost only includes pay when it comes to coding. Ha.
If you get something fast and cheap, it will be of low quality.
In what universe?
So you not only did a poor job, you also missed the deadline.
You should be ashamed of yourself.
"Hey, I want art from this other artist, but their art is too expensive, so could you please draw my pic in their style, but for cheaper?"
I think i'm usually considered the expensive artist in this case, but if I could wave a wand and do it faster I would love to...
Me: we can get it in 2 weeks but will have to skip some testing.
Customer: but I want the testing too.
Me: the testing itself takes 2 weeks.
Customer: can someone do the testing while you design the part?
Me: [screaming internally]
Weâve designed half of the mug, but unfortunately it seems like anything we put in there just falls out
"To optimize the building process of bridges, we've decided to do the testing in parallel with the construction. What could go wrong?"
Get this a lot
Geez, when we were on the y2k project that was one definite non-neg go-live...
our CTO joked that the reason we couldn't change the implementation date is because they've already booked the venue for the after party
Same here. Our product was shit, didnât pass any user tests, broke frequently, but hey we already booked the venue for the release party so letâs piss away a couple of million euros instead of 30 grand. Makes total sense
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Yes you can? I downloaded it in three different formats, just in case.
[deleted]
I used Reddit is fun (third party mobile app). Let me download as *.mp4, *.webm, and *.gif. Official app might not offer such options. But here's a direct link to the *.mp4 file.
Great, but can you credit the artist? https://www.instagram.com/mo_selim_art/
Ten minutes.
Can I have your permission to print this image and put it at the end of all my budgets?
https://imgur.com/gallery/BPQUZXH
Try this guy instead: https://www.instagram.com/mo_selim_art/
You'll have to ask this person: https://www.instagram.com/mo_selim_art/
My ex-manager would always ask me to compute the time I'd need and double it before forwarding to the clients. "Never over-promise and under-deliver," he'd say.
Smart man
We double it and add 32
I want to kiss your manager.
So this is like a cave man story compared to what you guys do but years ago I worked for a company that sold liquidated products on eBay. We had literally no official process to keep track off everything, from the products we had tested/inspected to the stuff we had for sale or had already been sold. Literally half the day was figuring out where stuff was and what condition it was in. So I decided I'd try to make a database and knowing nothing about what to do, I did it using Microsoft Access. To be fair to myself, if it was just me using this database from my computer it probably would have worked. But we're talking multiple work stations needing the info to be updated in real time so I'm sure everyone here can realize Access is not what you want to use. So after creating the database and it failing after a few hours of working, I came to my boss and told him we needed to take a step back and do this the right way, possibly taking a few days (putting it lightly) to get everything into a proper system. And yet he just looked at me like I was crazy, that what I had done already had taken too much time and that we were fine. So after telling him his incompetence would be the downfall of us, I just let things fall apart and boy did things. A few weeks later I had left the company.
As a counter argument, if âthe jobâ was to draw a picture so that someone knew which superhero it was then 12 seconds was plenty of time.
Good point. We should just show the client this Spiderman example and make him choose what he wants, just to manage expectations.
8 people needed to do job at 100% have 6 people manager: why wasn't everything done? why can't you do more with less?
The assumption of a bad manager is that everyone is inherently slacking.
[blank]
I've heard this before, but I haven't experienced it. I will admit, however, that I live in a bit if a professional bubble.
[blank]
yeah it difficult when Employees are seen as a cost rather than part of the service/product. Manager: you've been short staffed all week and so you want to have extra staff/fill in for missing staff on the weekend to catch up no sorry possible its not in our budget to pay penalty rates for extra staff.......Supervisor and staff: fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuckl
[deleted]
Theory X and Theory Y
Theory X and Theory Y are theories of human work motivation and management. They were created by Douglas McGregor while he was working at the MIT Sloan School of Management in the 1950s, and developed further in the 1960s. McGregor's work was rooted in motivation theory alongside the works of Abraham Maslow, who created the hierarchy of needs. The two theories proposed by McGregor describe contrasting models of workforce motivation applied by managers in human resource management, organizational behavior, organizational communication and organizational development.
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10 ~~Minutes~~ Hours | 1 ~~minute~~ hour | 10 ~~seconds~~ minutes
Now you have all the time you need.
My software design professor in uni told us if we're ever asked for an estimate we should go with at least double what we think we need. And then we'll still have way too little time.
What sets seniors apart from juniors is that the latter multiply by 2 and the former multiply by Ď ;)
You think Ď is a good multiplier? Wait till you hear about Ď.
â or bust.
"Hey, when do you think you'll be done with the next update"
"Even if you gave me all the time in the universe I couldn't get it done"
"... ... You're fired."
Harvard wants to know your location
I just realized I've been doing it all wrong - here I'm giving short estimates and delivering on most of them. Instead, I should give long estimates and finish in good time instead.
A more realistic approach:
Multiply by 2, then go to the next order of magnitude.
2h -> 4h -> 4d
My engineering manager told me the same as an apprentice, got given a job and told them it would take a full day as it needed to be done properly, did it in half the day and him and another manager took the piss jokingly, I didnt care but made me feel stupid.
[deleted]
Same professor didn't like agile particularly well (probably because she spent the majority of her career managing ESA projects) but she said agile is great as long you have a reasonable customer. If you don't, then it doesn't matter at all.
But yes, I got the impression that some agile variation is probably the way to go for non critical things nowadays. She told us it is important define with the customer what other most important aspects of the project are and to focus on those. And to tell the customer clearly that I may take longer than intended and there is nothing you can do about it. However, she also told us that the real world is most likely not that easy.
I like her a lot. One of the better professors.
I've picked in Kanban and I'm interested how it performs
If we go "by the book", hours can seem like days.
So why don't you just cut the one from the 10min, glue it into the 10sec frame and I pay you for 1 min?
The question that most teams struggle with is which one of those is good enough for your customer?
In a lot of cases, the customer's actually fine with that middle one but it's amazing how many dev teams still try to produce the first one and then wonder why they are getting shouted at.
There is such a thing as professional integrity. I'd personally still want to do a good job even if the customer would be satisfied with a half-assed attempt.
I'm (at least sometimes) a developer, so I appreciate the desire to build the "best" solution I can, and I don't like cutting corners.
But the reality is that, at least for most people, you're going to be working within some constraints - whether that's time, money, tech stack, regulatory requirements or whatever - that will mean making some compromises to a notional perfection. That doesn't mean you shouldn't challenge those constraints - if for example your project's ultra-aggressive timeline is going to result in a hugely unmaintainable system then explain to the customers what these implications are.
But if they've understood those implications and still want to plough ahead (maybe there's a critical marketing window they need to hit for example, so a project arriving a week late may as well not arrive at all, or maybe they need to move off a 3rd party system that's costing ÂŁ100K a week in extended licence costs etc). then a key part of real-life professional integrity includes being pragmatic and knowing which compromises to make to allow you to deliver to the paying customer on a appropriate schedule.
Aye, it varies with the circumstances. If they've come to me with a business spec, asked for a time estimate and then said they don't have that much time, I'd rather discuss with them whether they can manage with part of the system by their deadline with the rest of the system as a second phase.
The thing is that non-functional requirements should be just as negotiable as functionals.
If the user understands and accepts the long term cost of not building an automated ci/cd pipeline, or isn't as worried about accessibility requirements as the developer for example, then they're not things that the devs should be spending time on.
That costs more money, and it's not your money is what it comes down to.
If I'm a freelance programmer it's going to be my money (some of it, at least) and it's my reputation.
I mean more hours generally means higher cost. So forcing them to take on hours and cost that aren't necessary is a bit iffy. If you're just doing it because you want to that's different I suppose.
Many of my enterprise clients (most even) are fine with simple monochrome GUIs that are functional. My business logic, and backend however...that shit needs to be perfect
These things are important to figure out. "Do you need a fancy gui or are gray buttons and such okay"
The customer is fine until things go south and then it's "why didn't you do that?". Why is our software insecure? Why can't it handle this?
Which is why you need to explain the implications of compromises that you're making.
If you've done that, the customer accepts it, and then still complains when one of the things you warned about happens, then you're screwed. But if you're working at a place like that, then you're screwed anyway.
What I see all too often is developers who unilaterally decide that they know better than their bosses and spends days/weeks/months getting software to a level that the customer has no interest in getting to.
Great that we've got 100% unit testing coverage, a fully accessible, multi-lingual site, that's got 99.999% availability but if that's added 6 months to an internal project that just needed to capture a bit of data in a database for a couple of dozen users, the people with the money often just end up spending a couple of days building another Excel spreadsheet instead.
I think there is an inherent tension ther though between short and long term thinking. Constantly building âgood enoughâ software can eventually cause the build up of so much tech debt that it sinks the whole thing. (Good) developers will think at least somewhat long term. Sales and end users often have a very short term bias that ends up leading to an unmaintainable morass eventually.
What I try to do is compromise on the minor details while getting the major architecture correct with an eye to the future if possible. That makes it easy to go back and fill in more minor details later if required. So Iâd say there are certain a things you should compromise on and certain things you shouldnât. The really hard part is knowing where to draw that line, and to me thatâs a lot of what separates a really good senior developer from a more mediocre junior. The good ones can deliver something that maybe lacks polish and bells and whistles, but that is architecturally sound enough that it doesnât hamstring future development of the software.
Then put three people on it!
â and make a baby in one month with nine women....
Uh, this feels so personal. Last week my boss asked me for a report that usually takes me 3-4 days to finish, but she needed it done in a day. Nevertheless I made some mistakes so they gave me a feedback. I was screaming inside, but hey, such is life.
12.84 = 12? That's some floor() shit right there.
This right here is why I decided to not get into any commercial art or art related job. Deadlines wouldâve killed my passion for drawing/ art!
Add nine more artists and you can do the 10 min one in 1 min.
To be fair:
the 10 seconds variante may suffice, client can see where to go from there
a lot of people would still give you the 10 seconds variante after 10 minutes
i can agree with the 1m for that, the ~~10~~ 12 sec one is still too barebones i think
Found the manager!
And a few people could give you the 10 minute variant in 10 seconds. Those people are very rare and worth their weight in gold.
There is a huge variation in productivity rates between developers. This is part of why there is also a large range of salaries that developers get paid.
Hey /u/resueman__,
This is now the top post on reddit. It will be recorded at /r/topofreddit with all the other top posts.
So if we get 10 of you doing the 1 minute challenge, it should produce a 10 min result, right?
Since my clients are often startup founders without technical skill, I explain the concept of "how long does it take to make software" with a counter-question "how long does it take to prepare a pitch for investors?"
You can actually make a pitch deck for your company in an hour.
But let's say you have a meeting with an investor next week. You could land ten million bucks and be funded for two years if you get it right.
Should you spend an hour on that pitch, or a week?
So the real question in building software isn't so much "how long will this take?" but rather "how much time do we have?"
Lots of people see programming as being like an HVAC installation. Given a system you want to build, there are steps that need to be followed and it will take some X time and after that time the system is complete and functional.
But programming is more like writing a pitch, or an essay. You can have it done rather quickly, but that "done" is low quality. Most of the time you spend isn't getting to "done" but getting to the best version of done you can get to.
Like in art, programming has enough variation that you can increase the quality continuously.
As a photographer Iâm so saving this and sending it to clients when theyâre being stupid.
Glad to see this exists outside the graphic design community as well
You can have it cheap, good, or fast. Pick two.
You can pick two but probably will only get one
Wait... you could do it in 12 seconds?
He's clearly the Flash.
Good, fast, cheap... pick two.
Spoderman we meet again
Damn, will this be enough to combat the Dunning Kruger effect that is rampant in the business/client side of things!??
[blank]
Superman to spoodermen
But when we said six weeks, we really meant four weeks hoping to at least squeeze three out of them. They know this, so they won't let us have six weeks, but they also know they won't really get it in two, which is why they lied and they're not really sure if the next team will be ready to take delivery anyway.
Agile improved on this situation by having us all just admit that we're lying. We still lie, though. Even about how we're not doing waterfall anymore. Cuz we still are.
When I say six weeks I mean six weeks
Hahahaha but they quality has to stay the same ;)
Pick Two
There will be bugs.
Technically 13 seconds since they stopped at 12.8 seconds. Project is in the red because they went past the deadline by 30%. If he did it by 12.5, it would still be "good" since it's in the standard 25% deviation allowed for projects. I need a drink.
u/Zsomle1020
Is your client J Jonah Jameson?
Shouldn't it be 6 minutes, 1 minute, 10 seconds?
Why can't you do cheap, fast, quality work you lazy ass?
[deleted]
printing video format gonna be hard
Flipbook
I have 10 minutes for the 10 seconds version.
Explains the design and application standards for vinyl also. People don't understand a good product takes time. And if you're gonna cut my timeframe because you don't know how to manage time, your gonna get a way shittier product.
Many people think engineers and designers can complete their request by just waving your mouse like waving magic wand. They don't understand and don't want to understand how much efforts it actually needs.
The quicker it's done the shoddier the job
I k is they probably did it for exaggerated effect, but it seems like they actually draw pretty slowly.
True
Here is the two week stick figure. If you gave my original time, Iâd have the whole avengers team!
tl;dw
Good, fast or cheap. Pick two.
Time estimated shouldn't be used to guess how long something takes to complete, but rather to budget how much time is it worth to spend on it.
How much of those six weeks are spent jerking off and looking at porn or sitting around doing nothing?
Reminds me of that Westworld game that used code from their last game for a different company, Fall Out shelter.
...had the same bug they fixed in fall out shelter
Should have done it in the other order so he didn't have the reference to work from/warm up for the 10 second version.
Mr Stark Iâm not feeling so goood....
r/gifsthatendtoosoon
This also applies rather nicely to most situations in /r/choosingbeggars
He did it under 12 ~~parsecs~~ seconds
Ok
ĺĺĺ
In the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode/book Relics, Scotty has been rescued from being in a transporter loop for 75 years. He tells La Forge that he should not give accurate time estimates since captains are like children. They want everything right now and want it their way.
Thank you reddit. I finally got a simple way to explain it to my clients!
Do you want it to work, do you want people to think it works, or do you want people to question if it even works?
Quality - Speed - Cost -- pick any two
I need to send his to my boss
A good manger will give more ideas and make less demands.
Guess what do most of these types of mangers do when they give idiotic deadlines?
My bossâs favorite lines âit should only take 10 minutesâ.
Or how about "that's just like that other thing you did right? So you can get this done in half the time?"
I will now ask for the âOne Minute Spider-Manâ so they know what I want.
This would be a cool meme, I'd like to see other things like this
I'm going to save this post. I'll likely be starting a large project for a client soon. So far they haven't said anything bad about the schedule they've been provided with, but this post could potentially become necessary for future explanations.
If it canât be done in 2 weeks itâs poorly specâd
In school we were given NP-complete problems (in the case I remember - subset sums) and told to figure out a way to solve them in two weeks.
Was lolsy when you realized they were NP complete because the design plan was a bunch of bullshit with âoh and this impossible problem is solved in n^3 ish time usuallyâ
Two weeks though!
oh crap. quickly change it!... crap. noone will know. you must swear to secrecy.
ahhh, 2 week sprints. makes everything fun
Congrats for reaching r/all/top/ (of the day, top 25) with your post!
^I ^am ^a ^bot, ^probably ^quite ^annoying, ^I ^mean ^no ^harm ^though
^Message ^me ^to ^add ^your ^account ^or ^subreddit ^to ^my ^blacklist
Need to save this for later...
Looks like you did it 3 times in a 20 second gif. We only want the first one, should only take about 15 seconds.
It takes me 10 minutes to find something to draw with
Missed opportunity, Last frame should just draw Spoderman.
But it works
Five minutes to deadline, Jonah!
Me: puts up mock-up dashboard with dummy data
Manager: âLooks great! Now add authentication, connect those charts to our device databases, also you need to create an API so our devices can send data to the databases, and add the API code to the device firmware.â
Me: âWell itâll probably take me at least a month since Iâve never created a full web application before and Iâm the only developerâ
Manager: âPlease get it done in 2 weeks. Our sales guy is dying right now waiting for this to be finished. Iâm going to push you to finish this quicklyâ
Crosses out 10 seconds and puts 12 seconds đ¤Ł
Copy and paste the first one
âI need goosebumpsâ - seriously, have gotten this one.
"Why does this need to take 6 weeks? It can be done in a day in Excel." Then go do it yourself and leave me alone.
This is good. Also this will be one of the last comments
Mods are gay
Two weeks is one third (1/3) of 6 weeks so a realistic comparison would be trying to complete the drawing in 3.5 minutes.
You clearly understand the concept of analogies
Just an observation
We offer good, cheap, and fast. Pick any two
[deleted]
Good code according to whom?
According to anyone capable of making that assessment, I suppose.
I'm not saying there's no point where time and requirements become incompatible. No one could rebuild Reddit in its entirety this evening, and there are instances where time causes you to sacrifice scalability (although I've spoken at a few conferences on the topic of how to avoid coding yourself into corner due to time pressure).
What I am saying is that if you're currently capable of knocking out 8 story points a week in an agile environment, and three years from now you're still at that same velocity (assuming the same point-estimating process), it's not because programming can only be done at one speed: it's because you haven't invested in getting faster.
Ah âvelocityâ. If that is what people care about then I would just assign more points to the same kind of work and voila more points being burned! (Ala beat the system).
I think agile is good at this myth that speed always increases. Its the time to market that counts - and if your team has a consistent velocity of X thats fine. Many companies would love a predictable churn of features.
I agree. You should be getting faster as you gain experience. Not sure why you are getting downvoted.
And spending time on the right areas can save lots more time in other areas. Thatâs what experience teaches you to do.
This is actually one of my big gripes about Scrum/Agile ideology (at least as it is often practiced...I donât care about the cultish theory, but only how it functions in the real world). It undervalues the creative expertise required to make an extensible system in favor of trying to make interchangeable work units out of development work. It treats developers like fry cooks on an assembly line who are just iteratively churning out features. Thatâs not at all how real quality development work functions. I think Agile works well for small features and certain kinds of development. I think it does less well for other kinds of development like creating whole brand new large scale systems that need more upfront planning and design work to go well.
Not exactly an unpopular opinion. Good & fast is explicitly one of the options of "pick two: good, cheap, or fast".
The flurry of downvotes disagree with you :(
The only qualifier I would make - and always make - with the "good, cheap, fast" thing is that it's not a "pick two". It's a distribution of priorities, like building a character in a video game. You can increase agility by reducing power but it doesn't mean your power level is zero.
[deleted]
Not everyone follows all the websites you follow. I saw it for the first time now. Success!
I faced a similar situation. The chairman of the board was meeting with management trying to push the schedule. Manager came back to me and said that the CB wanted it sooner. I said no, it's going to take at least that long, if not longer, and I would be happy to tell the CB that to his face. Everyone else was saying I should pack my personal items.
Manager came back and said, how about if we drop these features? Did some quick calculation, gave him a time, and he said great!
It still took about a week longer than the estimate.
P.S. It was my first professional job after college. The CB had a known habit of saying "I can do that in 10 lines of Basic!" Oh boy, please say that to me! "Gee, why are we arguing then! Here's a piece of paper and a pencil. We'll be back in an hour."
I can tell you've worked in a business office doing business things. I also do business. Perhaps we should fax eachother some time, my fellow business adult.
Your 5 second Spider-Man is better than my 2 hour Spider-Man.
interesting thanks
This is a good example of what happens to your work when you procrastinate. I did so much procrastinating...
So will we not acknowledge the difference in time. 6 weeks down to 2. And 10 mins down to 1. Make it fair and do 10 down to 3:20. At least to keep the joke going without having me be a Nazi about it
In 6 weeks you'll be expected to do a lot more than a portrait of Spiderman. Things that even a third of the predicted time won't get close to.
Can you do it in one minute but with the features of the ten minutes version?
Also make it pop
It also needs a little pizzaz, but not too much. We don't want to be showing off too much.
[deleted]
Itâs a great opportunity for you, and youâll get lots of work coming out of this.
Even though I know this is a joke I'm getting anxiety.
Also, I don't really know what I want but when I see it I'll tell you.
You mean you don't want exposure?
[deleted]
[deleted]
No exposure and starving are not the same thing
You can die of starvation when perfectly sheltered or die of exposure when very well fed
But if you only get paid in exposure you're going to starve.
Not too much. I've heard you an die from exposure.
Your landlord doesn't accept exposure in payment?
Not sexy enough, apparently. Just got threatened with the police.
Mumsie would be proud snitch
Our brainâs ache...
I hate myself.
Its for church honey. NEXT!
More like, I don't know what I DON'T want until I see it.
Itâs a joke yet it happens all too often for freelance work
I don't see it as anxiety, he's giving you an early heads up that you want nothing to do with him, it's a really kind gesture.
To which of course, the only good response is fuck you, pay me
That talk was great. Thanks for sharing!
Remind me in 8 hours
im not the bot but it's been 8 hours
Good human
Thank you!
While you're at in Toss in some color.
[deleted]
Can you circle my back?
JFC! I would never believe these were real quotes if i hadnt seen it with my own eyes.
"I will gladly pay you on Tuesday for a hamburger today!" -Wimpy
Flip it on them: "How about this. I don't do any work, but you still pay me. You'll get tons of exposure by listing me as a consultant for your company. Sound fair?"
Why not both? https://paywithexposure.com
[deleted]
It seems legit, but definitely satirical.
folks we've hit peak sarcasm
[deleted]
People try to make it a thing in programming (I've noticed a lot of people asking for free mobile apps and web sites), but I've never heard of any programmer actually doing it - most of them are too busy working for pay.
(Not to say programmers never work for free, but they aren't going to respond to some guy who thinks he has an amazing app idea.)
Unless the guy presents and practically gives away his app idea and it's actually amazing and we want a share of those profits.
Hey we should paint houses for money is a valid useful suggestion. It's also worthless unless the person can pick up a bucket and join in or has customers lined up. Even good ideas aren't worth anything.
i would respond.
"neat idea, i might be able to pull it off. thanks for free advice"
NEXT!!
R/choosingbeggars
I'm not a housewife, I don't do it for free.
Just, put it... on the zazz train to Zazzville
We at the network want a dog with attitude. He's edgy, he's "in your face." You've heard the expression, "let's get busy"? Well, this is a dog who gets "biz-zay!" Consistently and thoroughly.
God my eye twitch is back
Lol, Pizzaz in arabic means Boobs.
And glitter đ it needs glitter
And can you make the logo bigger?
You mean jizzazz?
Relevant video: https://youtu.be/8i8vjtoX8q0
Also make it 3D and interactive.
And it needs to support IE 9+
Can we use those blockchains? How about 2 blockchains?
You can only use a blockchain if you code it in JavaScript in 3 easy steps. You also have to use the MEAN stack and have a plan for AGILE development.
Edit: if you donât meet any of the above requirements youâre not professional enough to work for us.
nooOOOOOO
Siri come on also make it 3-D and interactive
It has to pop! Pop! POP!
Are we Green?
choked voice Super green!
If Iâm ever in a position to say this to someone, Iâm going to do it, and then immediately say Iâm joking, just to see their reaction.
shudder
And take the subtle blue and make it bright pink, and add some flashing text!
/how I quit webdesign in 2008. Saw it as an art form, clients screwing over my - in my eyes - well balanced designs hurt too much.
Dread it. Run from it. Changes still arrive.
That just triggered me
... Some zing and pep.
What about we try it with even more zing and even more pep?
And make the logo bigger.
As much as I hate it, at least I know that âmake it popâ means âmore contrast and eye-catching colorsâ.
I have yet to divine what the hell âtake it to the next levelâ means!
And if you can do it with a blue pen as well that would be perfect.
My SO does designs for cafes/small restaurants for clients. The way she deals with em when they ask this shit is basically /r/maliciouscompliance
Storytime?
If you've ever read "Missy", I believe anything by David Thorne is a better read. Any kind of petty stuff my SO has done to a lot lesser degree.
Make it look more marketing
I instantly dislike anyone who says "make it pop".
You guys are giving me flashbacks. Glad I'm in IT now.
GAWD I hate it when people say this!
Groban likes his Spideys(Spidies?) to pop
Also, less liney. And it should feature my cat.
You don't remember what my cat looks like? Sure you do! You had a chance to look at a picture of my cat when I faced my phone half towards you a week ago!
Clients like their websites to pop.
That's a strange way of spelling "responsive"
Can you make the logo bigger?
Josh Groeben likes his ladies to pop.
Client with 10 years experience of bargaining vs programmer with 10 years experience of programming
clients hat also give him 20+ Charisma
Plus a circumstance bonus cos you need their money
Someone needs to take that hat away from him.
Fucking Christmas events
WE MUST SAVE MY FAMILY
r/unexpectedSAO
Never thought I'd seen an SAO: Abridged reference out in the wild like this.
Goddamnit I hate that hat!
20+ uniqueness
And twenty more each of nerve and talent, mmkay hunty?
let your body tell the truth
10 years experience of programming comes with 10 years experience of bargaining.
Passion projects and employment generally have very little bargaining. There are exceptions, but they're by definition the exception.
I was referring to this type of bargaining.
Dormormuu, I've come to grieve.
To expand on this, âreal negotiationâ, such as negotiating on salary, benefits, stock options (non-salary remuneration), perks, etc. typically start at the director level and above up to the board room.
Rank and file workers, supervisors, and middle managers have very little leverage and in material terms earn magnitudes less than their upper management counterparts.
Lots of lower rank staffers like to brag when they ânegotiateâ for a raise or promotion but those pay scales are usually predetermined (and capped) by HR or upper management. In other words, when most average people negotiate there is usually a predetermined outcome. There is negotiating but in a limited material sense (which is all that matters in business.)
As you advance upward and your market value increases, you gain leverage and standard employment negotiation applies less. Thereâs more money at play so there is more room to bargain.
Joe Shmoe almost always takes what is offered and convinces himself he got a deal.
Also 10 years of denial, anger, depression, and acceptance.
"Whelp guess I just won't clean or get out of my chair for a couple weeks"
fuckin negotiators
And make it the price of a one minute version
10 seconds*
Oh yeah sorry thats too expensive
Probably paying in exposure. You have to know I have a huge blog with three followers which only two are bots from and one is my mother.
Oh my god thank you so much this will make me rich and not broke
IT'S FOR A CHURCH
Too expensive. NEXT!
That other guy does it in 6.
12 seconds*
no, thats how long it actually took. you don't get any extra money for those 2 seconds
And they'll still try to stiff you when you're done.
âHey you see this giant fucking wall of like 60k lines of code?, could you add like 700k more lines for the price of 6?, and in an hourâ
The project creep is real...
And then halfway through they change it up saying they want Thor instead.
Also it has to be very user friendly.
[deleted]
The first one is definitely the worst.
Users are people. People like control.
If something happens you didn't initiate, that's typically bad.
An autoplaying video is something a user doesn't initiate. Unless it's the "next up" in a video player etc. Like YouTube. Even on YouTube it can be annoying.
I hate next up. Let me initiate my own video playbacks.
At least itâs better than auto-play. Every big US media site automatically strts playing videos with their articles
Turn off Javascript for those sites. They become a lot more tolerable when you don't let them run Javascript.
FTFY
Like half the websites out there these days require JavaScript to be enabled to display more than a blank page. I use uBlock Origin configured to block all JavaScript by default, and I usually have to unblock a handful of resources for the page to display at all.
I don't see a difference here, what's the problem?
For accessibility reasons, the older media sites that are less clickbaity actually load the article without requiring Javascript. It's the newer news and clickbait sites that become unusable but I generally find that they're the ones with the crappier content I could find elsewhere anyway.
I know. It's like, shutup, I just want to quietly read and digest this article. Also, pay your article writers more! I know you've all taken journalism class(es), but today's people like their information to be a little more fleshed out, and are more than capable of making their own opinions based off of the source material.
The worst part is when it then auto plays the next video that is totally unrelated to the article.
Its weird. I haven't had cause to go to those parts of the web in the last few years, and I come back to find videos all over one of my sites.
Well that's fucking stupid I thought to myself.
Nope. Turns out all the pages are like that now.
You can disable it
I think the "Next Up" feature is for those parents that give a kid an iPad instead of parenting.
Youtube gets tonnes of ad revenue for nothing and the parent gets some quiet for nothing.
Only time autoplay is ever acceptable is when you literally click on a video.
The fandom wikis are cancer with their autoplay videos, espeicially on phones. JUST LET ME FUCKING READ ABOUT LOTR LORE GOD DAMMIT
Between the video up top and the ad at the bottom and all the other junk on the screen, you can read the lore about three lines at a time.
Plus the other wikis that are their own site instead of.wikia.com are usually way more accurate and detailed. Elder Scrolls wikia sucks, a lot of times the info is wrong or completely missing, but UESP is fact-checked and has loads of info - detailed walkthroughs, enemy spawns based on level, local maps with loot, enemies, and hidden stuff, the works. Basically, a standalone wiki is almost always gonna be better than wikia.com
See also: zeldawiki.org (apparently they moved to a new domain, haven't used them in years) vs zelda.wikia.com.
I completely agree. Unless it's a site where the video is the primary desired content, I will go to the ends of the earth to avoid sites that autoplay videos. It's just not okay and I don't want to make them think it is by visiting their site.
[deleted]
Weird, for me the toggle to disable autoplay stays put where I left it until I clear cookies
True, but I have umatrix clear all my cookies on a regular basis, and firefox clears them on exit. A bit annoying to click to log in every time, but it makes permanent ad profiles so much harder to create.
Seems to me like a lot of effort for little benefit.
do you also have extensions to stop fingerprinting?
umatrix used to take care of that, too, but it seems that was removed half a year ago, which I hadn't realized.
OTOH, if umatrix suggests using firefox inbuilts, aren't they good enough?
[deleted]
Well, private mode is more of a "I don't want people here to see what I'm doing" kind of thing. All it really does is ask the server to pretty please not track. Pornhub doesn't seem to care, I guess.
what's worse it will always fall into the same RHCP concert.
it doesn't matter if you start with Tool, Burzum,Pink floyd, Metallica, Jackson or britney spears... it will all fucking end on one bloody RHCP concert that has muted audio in the middle
Don't forget the autosave feature. That probably won't need much testing, right?
Or when you pause the video on YouTube before it starts, it ignores your input when it finish loading and autoplays it anyway.
I actually really like the YouTube auto play, I can choose to turn it on/off- off if I'm watching random stuff, on if I'm just using it to listen to music. And if i scroll down it automatically disabled autoplay
But what about the site owner?! They're people and like control too! And the particular control they like in this scenario is control over every minute detail of the user's experience.
#tooreal
they were so preoccupied with whether they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
Wanted some sunglasses. Heard about a cool company on reddit. Headed over to their site to look at their shades. Literally every page loads all content, delays half a second, and just as I'm starting to read, pops up trying to get me to join their mailing list.
After this happened on the second product page (and all intervening pages), I emailed customer support to let them know some hacker was trying to sell sunglasses on their newsletter company's website.
Love it! Love it! Send it to the dev team at the end of the meeting!
It took us ages to convince one client their site didn't need a bouncing arrow at the bottom to let people know to scroll down.
We removed the old drawing today, so we cant wait 10 minutes for a new one.
I don't give a Fuck about database, I want 5 icons down and see a 360 picture of the product
And I want it by evening
Or You. Are. Fucking. Fired!!!
Did you know how many programmers I have out there waiting for a position such like yours.... AND CHEAPER!?
What do you mean with "I told you that stack wasn't right for this product?" I want it like this and that is how it will be done.
Even my 14 year old cousin with his ipad is better than you! (Yes, the one who did those superfun videos with bollywood music using just imovie)
EDIT: Maybe I should stay away from computers a few years, even take another job non it related... Oh my god...
How do you format your own brain?
Like this:
https://imgur.com/a/Dqyhyna
^(Hi, I'm a bot for linking direct images of albums with only 1 image)
https://i.imgur.com/z5XNFhr.jpg
^^Source ^^| ^^Why? ^^| ^^Creator ^^| ^^ignoreme ^^| ^^deletthis
If any manager or client talked to me like that, they'd never get my work again. Programming jobs are not in short supply, at least not right now.
Can you do it in 2 minutes with the features of a million lines of code application?
Cheap, good, fast.
Choose 2.
Good and fast don't come cheap.
I am a project manager. What resources do you need to complete the project in ten seconds ?
Also, can you draw it in red, using transparent ink?
<55 seconds in> By the way, I need it to be wonder woman instead of Spiderman...
Iâm gonna need it 1 second with 10 week quality
And documentation.
Lets get you 9 junior guys and you should be able to produce the 10 minute version in a minute.
That is the point here, that isnât possible. You sound like some of my clients đ
And then we will re-evaluate and send you notes on things we donât like, need, or arenât done correctly for you to fix.
I hate this, and clients give the good old âthanksâ at the end like itâs not up for discussion.
Yes I can, but pay me 5x more so, I can get more people on the job.
Sure! I'm booked for the next nine minutes but will have it done in a minute after. Payment is expected up front as usual.
Also, the price is too high, but making my huge project will give you exposure
And costs, cost of the 10 second version
This.
And in the form of a kitten?
But first, let's discuss this on a high level.
I can do it in 10 seconds if you pay half the fee up front, non-refundable, and there are no late penalties.
...15 minutes later...
And at the cost of the 10 second one?