[Serious] What are some of the biggest mistakes people can make in their 20s?
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Not brushing your teeth.

When my father passed away, I slept away each night without taking care of myself. I've had so many root canals, removals, and pain because of it- and it only hurts what little self image I have of myself.

When your teeth go, you smile less and hate yourself a little more every day. It just takes so much away from you.

Please, please take care of those chompers.

Edit: Thank you, everyone. I wish you all kindness and love. Take care of yourselves. <3

Man this is one I keep seeing and agreeing with, I started dipping when I was 16, now I’m older and I brush my teeth 3 times a day and use mouth wash and my gums still get swollen and still bleed and still hurt sometimes. It’s ridiculous, TAKE CARE OF YOUR MOUTH, it’s not worth it... and I’m still trying to kick the habit, kids seriously, we aren’t lying when we say this.

Honestly you might be doing too much, and also brushing too hard. I'd say ditch the mouthwash and make it morning and night only for the brushing. When you rinse the toothpaste you should swish it around anyway just like a mouthwash, and you should rinse well. Toothpaste isn't just some fancy chemicals that are good for your teeth, their main function is just like soap in that it grabs junk stuff and grabs water that carries it away. You need the water to carry it away. Without rinsing good you're leaving a lot of that junk in your mouth to redeposit amongst your teeth and gums. Not accusing you of that, I just hate seeing it in TV and movies all the time where they just spit out the toothpaste and move on and felt like saying something about it. [6] I need to go get something to eat...

I heard if its fluorinated toothpaste it could be better not to rinse at all. Bacteria hate fluoride so your toothpaste keeps protecting your teeth even after you brush. I never rinse after brushing anymore, i just spit and try to not drink or eat anything for 30 minutes.

Edit: https://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/dentalhealth/Pages/Teethcleaningguide.aspx

This is actually very true! Hence why they tell you not to rinse after you brush with Sensodyne, MI paste, Prevident, etc.

Am someone who is in dental field

What toothpaste do you actually use?

Yeah I wanna know too. Fuck what dentists recommend - I want to know what they use.

Also look up abrasive scale for toothpastes. The less abrasive, the better!

I use Prevident. It's a prescription strength fluoride toothpaste!

Why don't all toothpaste of prescription strength fluoride?

Maybe kids eating it?

Perhaps it needs to be a rinse and repeat situation. Brush all the shit out, rinse it out, put a small bit of toothpaste back on the clean teeth for the fluoride.

Agreed. I never rinse.

Actually in Brazil it's normal to brush 3 times a day as it's better for you teeth (once after every meal) , that's why their teeth is so good even tho country so poor

Good teeth are rated on three things. 1) Color 2) Straightness 3)Presence

That is not recommended. The reason you're supposed to brush your teeth BEFORE breakfast is because brushing right after you ate can cause damage to the tooth enamel. The point of brushing your teeth in the morning is to clean out the bacteria that has built up overnight.

I think discontinuing the dip would be the single greatest improvement. I don't think mouthwash and extra brushes are the issue.

Augh see I've heard it's better to rinse after brushing for the reasons you've mentioned, and I've heard it's better to not rinse so that the fluoride sticks around better. I don't know what to believe!

Hence mouthwash. Not the cheap stuff, but fluoride based non alcoholic washes.

I would add softer toothbrush to your list of advices. I ramboed my gum away early and when I reported pain on cold/air/sour she noted that she sees start of receding gumline and recommended some extrasoft toothbrushes.

Actually if you mist rinse, rinse with as little water as possible. The flouride in toothpaste is good for your teeth. I never rinse. I'm 32 now and only had one cavity 13 years ago, just for reference.

I hope no one actually goes about their day without rinsing out the toothpaste from their mouth...

my gums still get swollen and still bleed and still hurt sometimes

Dude that might actually be because you brush them too much iirc

I hated brushing my teeth as a kid and didn’t go to the dentist for five years. Went for the first time in February and have to go in 5 times for fillings in almost all my teeth. Fun fun fun

What does dipping mean?

Chewing tobacco I believe.

Chewing tobacco or getting globs of tobacco and sticking in between your lip & your teeth to chew,suck & occasionally spit out as a habit

Correct, it’s a slang term, others include packing a lip, chew, snuff, snus, lipper, etc.

Take care of your teeth and at least go see a dentist every six months for cleanings and checkups. I spent three years avoiding making an appointment because I didn’t have insurance and thought so long I take care of them I’ll be fine.

I'm not a dentist or anything, so don't count too much on what I say.

But I heard that if you use mouthwash too often, it would also kill off the good bacteria that maintains a healthy culture in your mouth.

I really think you should see a dentist though, because your symptoms doesn't sound right.

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Try Snus, no spitting, fair amount of evidence it is less carcinogenic (Snus tobacco is pasteurized, not smoked.)

But try and find the real Swedish stuff, not some of the US knock offs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Snus/

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Dipped and smoked for years, much prefer Snus, and the health benefits seem meaningful vs both of the former.

Also, if you start ordering from Sweden, lots of different flavors / styles to try, although I've settled on a couple of favorites.

And, FWIW, took a while for my wife to notice I was snussing, and while she still generally dislikes it, nothing near as gross as ashtrays and spit cups!

I dipped for about 3 years in my undergrad and was able to quit relatively easily. I just started school again a year ago and I like to do it while I study. My gums were starting to wear down so I started doing the Swedish stuff. It’s a little more expensive but waaaaayyyy easier in your mouth. I recommend the mint flavor.

You should definitely tell her before moving in.

Yyyyep, don’t chew tobacco. The buzz/high can be glorious, but it very quickly becomes impossible to obtain and you find yourself like me with a pouch in almost 24/7.

I used to dip too but now only use nicotine pouches instead of tobacco, a lot better.

What’s dipping?

Chewing tobacco

I have been quit now for over a year. I quit cold turkey by dipping green tea bags and drinking lots of coffee. Give it a try, worked for me.

Use different motuthwash, don't brush as hard, and lightly brush your gums.

everytime you see something with sugar in it on reddit people spam "diabetes" in the comments.

Diabetes is a long ways away and a lot harder to achieve than fucking up your teeth.

I'm a dental assistant and sometimes we go around to elderly homes to discuss oral health and denture health and the number one thing they always say as their biggest regret in life is not taking better care of their teeth

I’m paying that price the hard way atm. I neglected to take care of them for a long time and now they are starting to yellow to the point it’s noticable when I smile. Now I constantly brush my teeth after every meal and planning on getting them whitened to turn my trashy yellows into pearly whites again.

That might be your diet as much as your oral hygiene.

Some foods and drinks (curries and coffee) can stain teeth.

I’m not a huge fan of spices and I’ve been drinking water exclusively for years now although I did drink a lot of soda in the past so that may have had contributing factor to that.

I honestly think there should be a subreddit just dedicated to teeth care and oral hygiene in general. A lot of people take it for granted but a little bit of help to maintain good oral health would go a long way. The only subreddit close to this is r/dentistry but they only provide tips and don’t go into the details.

Yeah, you might be right about that. I would start one myself but I don't think I know enough about dentistry to help people on a professional level.

Nevertheless, here is some information that may or may not help: I had a problem of slightly yellowish teeth. They weren't actually unhealthy (went to the dentist and he said my teeth were some of the cleanest and healthiest he'd seen) they were just stained from all the coffee, Coca-Cola etc. Often, even very healthy teeth will not look glow-in-the-dark white. They'll mostly look slightly creamy in colour.

But of course, no one wants yellow or stained looking teeth so I decided to try to do something about it. I've been brushing my teeth with baking soda mixed with my toothpaste a maximum of twice a week. It's slightly abrasive so it can slowly remove stains. I have found this genuinely works.

However, fair warning: it tastes unpleasant and if you use it too much it can be very bad for your teeth.

That baking soda will cut through enamel like butter though. Be careful with it

That's why I said not to use it too much.

I heard about this method before, but I will definitely try it out now thanks! I also heard that using apple cider vinegar helps to remove teeth stains as well, but the thought of the taste sounds too unpleasant 🤢

Yeah that's why I went for the baking soda instead. Having a mouth full of vinegar makes me gag just thinking about it. shudders

Baking soda doesn't taste great either but it's bearable when I mix it with enough water to make it into a paste and then mix it with some toothpaste. I get some bitter-tasting stuff that has a hint of a peppermint flavour and doesn't taste too bad. I follow up by swilling some water in my mouth.

I was born with yellow, hypocalcified teeth. Life is a constant struggle of not letting people see my teeth, while also not looking angry all the time.

100% agree. I went through some serious depression in my teenage years due to my parents very ugly divorce. I stopped taking care of myself. Stopped brushing my teeth for a while and now my teeth are terrible... and I can't afford to get them fixed... I get over it sometimes, but other times it just makes you feel terrible about yourself... depression is a fucking nightmare...

So much this. After graduating high school I basically fell into half a year of lethargy and depression, and rarely ever brushed my teeth (like once a month). I'm lucky that only half my teeth got cavities now, but I'm not even done getting all of them fixed and I've already spent more time on it than I would have if I'd just brushed them.

Not to mention that in many other countries this would also have costed a lot of money.

If you can't motivate yourself to do anything, still brush your teeth anyway. You'll regret it if you don't.

My mom severely neglected her dental health and because of it she was missing all of her molars for years! Wouldn't smile big for pictures ever. She finally had extensive surgery to get it fixed, which included getting bone transplants in her jaw (her own bones eroded from lack of use). Always a great reminder.. TAKE CARE OF YOUR TEETH!

This is heart breaking. I'm truly sorry for your loss and hope you find joy in yourself again.

I’m going to brush my teeth right now

I always get that Saturday morning cartoon psa jingle stuck in my head... they call me yuck mouth, cuz i don't brush...

Yep! I'm 22 and my teeth are fucked, two of them are pretty much only half teeth now because they've fallen apart and whenever I brush them they bleed. I need to go to the dentist but Im poor as and it's like $50 just to see how much it'll cost.

Just brush them slowly, take your time with your health.

I actually realized that today, I brushed them slowly and carefully and there was far less blood.

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I know its hard but you should have gone to the dentist yesterday. A tooth infection will kill you very quickly. You're not just risking losing the tooth you're risking losing your jaw or your life if you don't get that taken care of. Antibiotics can help but not if you have an open hole in a tooth, that doesn't heal and bacteria festers there

Sorry, the antibiotica is not going to help. You have to go to the dentist now. But you can eat some sedatives instead so you can make it there.

Antibiotics will totally help. What are you on about?

Most toothaches that are not cause by temperature sensitivity are caused by bacterial infection in the gums, the roots, or the dentin.

I can relate. Have been in complete agony for the past week to the point where I'm finding it hard to stay stood up, my body just wants to buckle and collapse from the pain. I've got an dentist appointment 3 hours from now. Going to beg him to extract it. I can't last another day without losing my sanity.

Go to the dentist.

They're professionals, they don't fuck up and you'll feel better. Self medicating is never the answer.

Conquer that fear and just go. You'll feel better about your teeth, and yourself.

Ive been fucked up by almost every dentist I've gone to 🤕

they don't fuck up

This is soooooo not true.

Edit: what the hell kind of hack dentists do you guys go to? I've been going twice a year every two years and no issues. My gums bled once because I wasn't taking care of my teeth, that's about it.

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I'll let you know in around 3-4 weeks when I have to drop around that much on my mouth. The worst part is having a half finished root canal starting to rot.

What do you mean by given a treatment plan for over 5k?

Dental treatment bill for $5000

It's not the bill, it's the plan that leads to the bill. The bill can change, it usually doesn't, but it can.

Please, please take care of those chompers.

Reminds me of this ...

https://www.reddit.com/r/insanepeoplefacebook/comments/6ondq0/engaged_to_a_7_year_old_during_911/

I don't think I can hate myself more than I already do lol

I'll start brushing my teeth

Fucking THIS. I specifically came into this thread to write this. Look after your teeth. It will come back to bite you later if you don't.

And by bite I mean expensive, painful and depressing.

My parents never managed to instill teeth brushing as a habit when I was a kid, and we paid for it quite literally in my teens and young adulthood.

Brushing your teeth is so fucking important.

Same for me. I'm the younger sibling, and my parents just kind of gave up when I came along. They never tried to instill good habits in me, never made sure I knew how to take care of myself, and so most of my childhood I rarely brushed my teeth, and I went like 6 years where my parents never took me to a dentist. When I became an adult I went to the dentist and I had cavities in just about every one of my teeth. I'm 26 and I still need work done.

My grandpa died when I was a kid, probably around 9 or 10, and I stopped taking care of myself, now I'm 22 and I've lost one of my canine teeth, and still have a long way to go before I'll smile again, this comment exactly

I need to piggy back this to say that as someone who spent a lot of their life slipping with this. Set daily alarms if you have to, even if it feels stupid. Its so important.

Yeah I’m 24 and haven’t cared for them as much as I should and I need to have a tooth extracted next week because of it. Real wake up call.

Absolutely. I have always taken great care of my teeth, but they weren't physically as pleasing as I wanted. Not everyone is born with great teeth! So as soon as I could afford it, I just had them fixed. I can't put into words how great it is to smile in photos and know that I don't need to feel self-conscious about that part of me (I can't guarantee that my eyes will be open in the photo tho)

I'm still trying to kick the habit. I take "naps" but end up sleeping the night away without brushing my teeth

M 18 and idk why but I have crooked teeth ...and two missing front teeth in the corners of my smile as well .....my front two teeth were permanent yet they felt very weak and looked crooked ....I tried oil pulling and it made a world of difference to me ....cavities gone ....weak teeth have strengthened ...helped a lot in my confidence .

Agreed. I was born with bad enamel, and it didn’t (still doesn’t) help that I’ve had an addiction to soda for so many years and went so many times without brushing my teeth. My smile is easily the biggest thing I’m insecure about, (and my overbite but that’s got nothing to do with this-) especially since teeth are a big deal breaker for jobs, relationships, etc; and I still have a long journey ahead for them to at least look okay. Still have to get braces, but have to get rid of the addiction and then get more fillings and possibly more root canals if some of my teeth are extremely bad.

Really people, do take care of your teeth. It sucks feeling insecure about your smile, and it makes you feel weird about smiling or laughing in public. I hate it.

Also, I’m sorry but there’s some truly asshole dentists and I can definitely see why people hate going for checkups, etc.

I have a ton of cavities (I know because sometimes drinking water hurts etc.) and haven't gone to a dentist in over 5 years...Pretty sure my teeth are completely messed up by now but a dentist visit costs like 100€ and I'd then probably be told I need extensive (expensive!) and painful work done to fix my billion cavities...gives me anxiety just thinking about it and I regularly dream that my teeth are being chipped away/ falling off.

I’m 43 and just got braces!

lately I been slipping on my basic taking care of teeth game. I need to get back in the habit hard.

Same. In my case I needed gum surgery to deal with gum deterioration. It's healing nicely now but it sucks being restricted to yogurt, mashed veggies and soup for the next few months.

when there's a symposium and everyone else is out enjoying the pizza and wings. Feels bad man.

At least I still have beer, whiskey and vodka.

Man this hurts me. I really smiled less in my 20s because of this. I'm trying to fix it now that I'm 30

This. Im 20 and I have actual nightmares about my teeth literally falling out because of how much its been beat into my head.

And soda! I'm in my early 30s and I have 2 friends my age who basically lost their teeth to soda. Always drinking coke or dew, I've never seen them drink water. One friends had all his teeth removed and has dentures now. At 30. The other has black, rotting teeth right in the front and he really needs to get them removed. At 30. From soda!

My parents used to piss me off making such a big deal about brushing my teeth but I'm so grateful now.

Read this at 28 in a dentist chair. Feels bad

I needed to hear this, Thankyou <3 sadly stopped looking after myself quite a few years ago due to depression and haven’t had anyone to give me a slap round the head for it, not like I need it from anyone but myself but it sure helped to read this.

Please brush your teeth

I have wisdom teeth that are acting up now. I want to die

Not to mention it's not just painful and inconvenient it's so incredibly expensive. I can't afford to have dental procedures done without dental insurance (and let's face it even with dental insurance). If you're thinking "well whatever I'll just get them fixed" - no you won't

We had a saying in the dental industry: "if you ignore your teeth, they'll go away".

Exact thing happend to me, how are you holding up?

I have it drilled into my brain that I brush my teeth twice a day. Literally have always brushed my teeth twice a day since as long as I can remember and I'll never stop

Brushed tonight in a long time.

Yeah. Had parents that weren't strict on dental hygiene so i never had good habits. I'm 23 and my teeth are now suffering. My gums are starting to erode, they bleed when I brush as soft as possible, and to top it off I've got some wisdom teeth erupting now. And I'm uninsured and worried about going to get taken care of

Ok, I'll take better care. Thanks for the advise :)

Totally, I had a bad couple years, and then I went to the dentist finally to get them fixed. Much to my chagrin, they advised me that 3-5 just had to go. Now I have a partial denture because I'm missing a few on both sides of my front teeth. Really lit a fire under me to save the ones I still have though.

I literally got my ass out of bed and brushed them for like 10 minutes after reading this

I have this issue, looking to finally get them fixed. Clip-on veneer's will do for now though!

The worse parts are the pain profiteers that youll have ti deal with to get it fixed.
Seriously FUCK dentists!

brushing your teeth won't help

Not taking advantage of your greatest asset, time. When I was talking with an older friend who was very well off, millionaire, I jokingly said, "I'll trade you my age for your money". And his reply has always stuck with me, he said, "I can do more with your time than you can do with my money." I didn't take it as an insult but as motivation to make the most of my time and not waste it.

Well that’s a quote to remember

Unless he would be poor af like me, having time and no money is no fun at all.

Yeah, being broke definitely sucks - but the relationship between money and happiness isn't proportional. From what I've read, people's happiness doesn't increase significantly with earnings past something like $80k (changes depending on location). Bottom line, you need to have money to feed yourself and your loved ones, get decent shelter and transport, and be able to do things that you enjoy. Beyond that, people's problems are their problems, regardless of how much money they've got. If anyone is in doubt of that, watch pretty much any of the Real Housewives shows, LOL. Money coming out of their asses, and none of it is enough.

I've read an article about millionaires being happy or not that was prettt interesting. Maybe it's interesting for y'all

Time.com/money/5071182/money-happiness-million/

[deleted]

What's the name?

What is the TL;DR of it?

His reply is very ignorant. If all his money was taken from him, he'd still have family and friends to rely on, until he gets one of his old gigs back or one from a chum, until he gets back on his feet.

It's a different world. You'll never be able to make these people understand.

That's exactly what he's saying though, his network of connections means he can accumulate that wealth back very quickly. He never said I can do better with your situation than your money. Just that given the extra time of a few years he's sure to benefit rather than lose out.

You can interpret it two ways:

I. "I could do more with your time [since it's so useful] than you could do with my money [because the time is with more].

i.e. He's being nice and encouraging, saying OP has the potential to exceed him.

II. "I could do more with your time [because I know how to use time] than you could do with my money [because you will never be able make as much as I have].

i.e. He's patronising OP, presumably as a joke on some level.

I think most people are interpreting it as 1, since 2 does not seem to be presented that way in OP. He posts it as a generous, inspiring comment.

you are looking too far into it imo.

It is just that "time" has a infinite monetary value. It wouldn't be surprised if 95% or more of all 65+ year olds would trade in everything just to wash up naked and broke at some beach near a random city, in a 20year old body.

(let's just assume he will still have the possibility to have a social relationship with his family, but they cant give him a single penny or he will immediately die)

I agree. He could donate it all away in a matter of weeks if he so chose, therefore doing more good with his money than any amount of time.

Wtf. This has literally nothing to do with what he’s saying.

Plain and simple. He’s saying age and getting old is a motherfucker. And there’s nothing as sweet as youth.

Being a young and broke is usually synonymous

Being usual is not the path to success.

So being successful is not usual. What can you do? Become unusual?

you can only use it when you're old and rich and someone offers you their age though

"I can do more with your time than you can do with my money" sounds a bit arrogant, though. How does he know that? Arrogant prick.

Well, he made the money to begin with.....

First of all, we don't know that. And secondly, if he spent his life making money and now regrets it, maybe he's not that smart after all.

Maybe he didn't spend his whole life making it. Maybe he started late and with the extra time he could make more. Also it's really silly to say someone is an "arrogant prick" then say "First of all, we don't know that" when someone presents a counter point. If you can make an assumption then I can make an assumption in my counter-point.

Someone is just annoyed that someone would imply they're spending their time unwisely by not being able to become rich, he's just salty.

I don’t see how that’s arrogant at all?

I think the implication is that he would waste the money and that the rich guy would do more useful stuff with his time than he is doing?

The rich guy was saying that the time op has is more far more valuable than the money he has.

Possibly, just thinking how it could be interpreted as arrogant.

Which while being a feel good statement, is plain wrong lol.

To you, maybe. Who are you to say what someone else values.

For real, though. The difference in quality of life between let's say middle class and millionare isn't that much. After a certain point money goes from a "must have" to a "nice to have". It seems very attractive to be rich when you're poor, but the shiny toys and huge mansions' appeal wear off fast. They're just excess, waste.

Being wealthy is nice and all, but I would have to agree with OP's friend on this one. I'd give everything I had for more time, because frankly, the thought of not exisiting scares the shit out of me. I'm not ready to die yet.

No. You can't ever get time back. If you're 80, you can't go back to being 20. No matter how much money you have.

I honestly think if you gave rich 70 year olds the option to give up their money to return to their 20s, they'd take it in a heart beat. A youthful body and mind with an entire future left? That's pretty invaluable.

If you had trillions you could potentially accelerate anti-aging treatments by a LOT.

No guarantees it brings fruit before you die or suffer irreparable damage however.

Bill Gates donates his money to disease eradication, and helping the poor.

Elon Musk invests his money in pushing development of electric vehicles, space travel, a Mars base, solar panels.

Larry Ellison (Oracle) funds http://www.ellisonfoundation.org - "basic biomedical research on aging relevant to understanding lifespan development processes and age-related diseases and disabilities." - i.e. the "help Larry Ellison not die foundation".

:|

You can't buy time, ever.

If you had trillions you could potentially accelerate anti-aging treatments by a LOT.

No guarantees it brings fruit before you die or suffer irreparable damage however.

So in some sense you can, it's just extremely expensive and uncertain to benefit you specifically.

Or he's just saying that time is more valuable than money.

Some people just don't get it. Or at least, refuse to.

Possibly, just thinking how it could be interpreted as arrogant.

“Money can’t buy life”

Wow he's right. If I did get a bunch of money right now I would probably mostly spend it on video games to waste more of my time... Maybe it's better I don't have much money to spare, I waste enough time as it is.

Enjoying your time is not wasted time.

This is exactly the thought I would land on if I ever felt guilty for spending time on things I like (like video games or something), rather than things that are more productive, that I perhaps ought to be doing instead.

Eventually, after a while of letting this negative thought make me feel miserable for "wasting" time, I would realise that hey, if I'm enjoying myself, I'm not wasting time.

Unless it's skydiving, sport, tourism, raising kids or you are super successful already, people will think you are wasting time.

Ignore them.

Well most of those things actually contribute to your life in a variety of other positive ways, while staring a screen all day playing video games on your own, does not.

But are they happy? Are you happy? In the end, our own happiness is all that matters.

Well probably because a lot of people have convinced themselves they are having a great time and are therefore not wasting their time, while they actually use(d) games a scapegoat to not go out of their comfort zone and try new things, meet new people or learn usefull skills. What I'm trying to say is that you need to have a useful balance between mindless consumption in playing games and actually doing things to improve your life.

Gaming is not wasting your time, but you're logic is imo flawed since there're probably a lot of people who convinced themselves they are having a great time by sitting inside a bar all day too.

My logic is, indeed, flawed. Yes.

However, that statement is based on an assumption that you've made - that one uses this logic as an excuse - a scapegoat, as you said - to procrastinate other things that would arguably improve that person in some way, such as improving skills or experiencing new things.

Personally - though I realise that your comment was not aimed at me specifically - I do not use this logic as a crutch to excuse myself from enriching, high effort activities. I spend a lot of time on personal creative projects. I have also enrolled on numerous courses through Udemy and Lynda, which I use to teach myself a whole variety of new things from HTML code to 3D modelling to playing the guitar. All of this can be done while staring at a screen without moving from the spot - sometimes for free. Marvellous times we live in.

They say eating chocolate and other fatty foods should be enjoyed as part of a balanced diet. So how about this - "time wasting" hobbies should be enjoyed as part of a balanced lifestyle.

Alternatively, even if someone chooses to spend all their time on video games. Who are we to say that they're wrong? Sure they may enjoy life more, and find great things outside of their bubble, but they also may not. If they're happy and they aren't harming anyone, then what they do is entirely up to them.

Until one day you realize all the other things you could have been enjoying in that time. Or maybe you won’t. I guess you can’t miss what you don’t know.

You can only imagine what it would have been like, but for all you know, you might have actually hated it.

So even if you do worry about missing something, there's no point, and anyway, when you're dead you won't care.

No, but having major regrets in your last moments of life sounds like a bad way to go. Thinking about it, I bet it's pretty common. Probably not very many people die content with their life. That's a bummer, man :\

How is spending money on something you genuinely enjoy considered wasting time?. Video games or gaming is a hobby, nobody can pursue or even just pick up a game if it's not their hobby, spending on something you enjoy or your hobby is not waste of time.

Waste of time is if you put other important things behind and don't give THOSE things enough time, that's wasting your time.

I'm only 25 and I love playing video games, but that thought of "I enjoy it, so it's not a waste" is long gone. When I think about how I could've used that time to socialise and actually have a social circle, I want to die. Those stupid-ass bosskills were great and I had a lot of fun, but in the end, they don't help your life.

Same with Netflix. I guess moderation is key. I could binge-watch a million things, or I could socialise, cultivate friendships, attend cultural events, and dedicate time to personal hobbies.

Not everyone values those things, but even though I may have the impulse to be hermit-like sometimes, I feel happier when I spread my time across diverse activities and interact with people.

[deleted]

Haha that's so true. Especially GoT; it's like a cult.

Yeah my problem is I really need to be using my spare time to work towards actual useful skills for my future. (Mostly practicing programming)

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what in the fuck are you talking about. you say it's not a waste of time if you enjoy it. man says he enjoyed it but also feels he wasted his time. boom counterexample.

I honestly don't know where this shit came from. He doesn't understand life? what are you on about? are you drunk?

Sounds to me you're not in the right mind to talk.

yeah, alright mate. Nice one. Good explanation.

First off, I never blamed video games, stop reading something that's not there into my comment. I said that I believe it was a waste of time because while I had my fun playing video games, my social life suffered from it and you will notice that in your mid 20s when you have friends but most of them exist on the internet.

Second, I do understand life. I wasn't "fortunate enough" or "lucky enough" to afford games. I worked for it. My parents didn't have much money and my father is an alcoholic who let out his frustrations on his children, telling them they are at fault for him being a miserable prick. How's that for being lucky enough?

I picked the wrong choice after secondary school, wasted a year at a school I ultimately didn't want to go to, then wasted a year sitting at home, doing nothing. After that, I decided to fix my life, got my business certificate as the best one from the entire grade, got an apprenticeship and finished it great and have been working for 5 years at the same company, my coworkers like me, my superior trusts me and I have responsibilities.

This wasn't luck or fortune, I don't have favourable circumstances, I never had. The place I am at now is because of me working for it, mostly alone. I just spent 500 bucks on a monitor and BDs, because I save more money a month than I spend in two. Why? Because I learned to be responsible, worked for it and can do whatever I want now.

"Fortunate enough" my ass.

The seeds of wisdom right there.

Vs spending that time working for the money? I'd take the video games. Also I doubt you'd play video games rich you do that poor. Having money let's you do shit.

I would invest it ina couple stable mutual fund.

And here I am just killing time.

I was listening to bedrock on the radio the other day.

Man. The golden age of rap bangers.

The golden age was definitely a couple of years earlier.

I hear these words of wisdom 5 days before my thirtieth birthday? Fuck.

The fucked up thing is time only seems to move faster, and all the unhealthy decisions you've been making are starting to show up more and more. Sucks being told I'm a "healthy 50 year old" given my lab results, when I'm in my mid-30s.

I have to do some hardcore lifestyle changes involving better food, more exercise and better sleep or I'm going to be a fucked 50 year old when I'm 50 for real. And that's not that far away. Life moves fast, too fast. Kind of fucking scary, looking back at the last 30 years and thinking "am I happy with how I spent my youth" because you don't get a retry. Just memories now. Now you just have to make sure you don't fuck up the next couple decades and you're fighting an uphill battle.

Jesus christ i'm 20 and this made my hands sweat.

Well, it takes a while to work out the speed of time, and when you are young you are still learning about what's involved in life and how long you have to do things. Plus, you don't have to think about time yet because everything is nicely set out for you for a while.

But then as you approach 30, you realise you are about to be what you always considered 'old'. And that's when you start worrying about it.

But not to worry. I am in my 30s and I do not worry about time. I'm just perfectly fine with it. Although I am aware that time with my remaining grandparents is limited. They are both seemingly healthy but you never know what's ticking away underneath the surface, or what mishap will be to blame.

Shit I wasn't back in 5 days

I will be back in 5 days

I am working the job that has been my dream job for years. I love what I do and I achieved my goal years before I thought I would. My biggest regret is rushing to this. I wish I traveled and took some time to do the things I wanted to do. Now I work 60 hours on a slow week and my biggest goal is to achieve a work-life balance.

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I did actually. I’m the general manager of a very busy restaurant. The broad spectrum of things that are my problem is often overwhelming. I have about 45 emails to respond to every day before I can start the 50 other tasks I need to do on any given day. Some weeks are busier than others but there’s always a new challenge or problem to solve. This morning for example I came in to work 4 hours before my shift because our POS was down and I needed to find a solution for it or I would have to do hand written bills and deal with every transaction when I could get the pos back up. I then had to start my admin day but I had to deal with a bunch of internal issues within my management team. This took another 2.5-3 hours. I got started with my day and was immediately interrupted with an interview (which was regrettably scheduled). Then my chef and bar manager were getting their admin stuff done on the computer and I had to put a hold on things. Then I trained 3 different people for six hours and finally started my work at 10pm. I worked 11am to midnight and the day before I anticipated it being 3-10:30. I knew the job would be pretty all consuming, but it was what I wanted and I set my mind to it. I don’t regret it at all, I just wish I took my time with it. There’s no rush. Sorry for the over explanation but it was a bit of a long day, I felt I needed to share.

One of those "rich people"-quotes..

Yep. Not realising that to do most of the things he's probably imagining doing with his "time" you need the money he's used to. There are things I wish I could do that are just not possible without money, unless I literally throw what little I do have out the window. Starting your own business takes money, travelling takes money. Everything worth doing costs money. Sure, I could use my free time to learn things, but so can an older person, that's not age exclusive.

There's nothing a young person without money can do that an older person with money can't do. Besides wake up without a hangover, and not even all young people can get away with that. When you have money you have more time. You can afford to take a two week holiday without pay and not worry about losing your home. You can say no to overtime. You might not even have a full time job, and are getting by on passive income.

It's really not some amazing insightful quote, it's one old guy being nostalgic about youth. probably imagining all the hot girls he should have banged while he was cute and fit, but didn't.

You can't buy time, ever.

Wait til you get older, whether your rich or poor you'll realize this.

No, you can't buy time, but the ways poor people can spend their time is severely limited compared to the ways people with money can spend theirs.

Everyone might have the same/similar amounts of time in them, but don't act like it's all worth the same either. It's not. It's fucked up but that's just the way it is.

That doesn't even take into account how being poor affects how much time you have overall, too. Poor nutrition, bad environments, living in a constant state of (albeit first world) survival. That takes years off of a persons life, and depending on what kind of work they had to do, their quality of life starts to degrade a lot earlier and a lot faster than richer people, because their bodies are often damaged from high physical stress. So while poor people are practically disabled from joint and back pain by 60, richer people enjoying early retirement are about as fit as they were when they were 40. In america, rich people have access to preventative medicine, because they can afford to go to go to the doctor over every little pain and tired spell - which is a good thing. Where as poor people have to wait until it's literally an emergency, and by then the damage may be irreversible - that that's just a risk they have to take, because they cannot afford to go to the doctor before it gets to that point, just to be told it's nothing.

Rich people can have more fun/relaxation/excitement, for longer, than poor people. It's just that simple. Don't act like there is some kind of innate fairness built into life, because there isn't. We are not all equal, and while your time might be priceless to you, and your loved ones, to everyone else, it's only worth as much as it can earn you.

Money means choice. No money, no choices, or at least no reasonable ones.

When a poor person says "i wish i could travel, but i can't afford to" everyone acts like a reasonable response is "yeah you can! just give up your entire life and what little you've managed to earn and go live like a hobo in a third world country!" That's just not reasonable. If the person was saying "i want to stay in 5 star hotels and have a private tour guide, eat at all the best restaurants and visit off limits landmarks with special permission, and i want it all to cost less that £500" that's also unreasonable, but wanting to be able to visit another country and be able to afford a normal flight, a place to stay and money to do normal tourist things isn't asking a lot, but unfortunately some people just can't afford even that, even if they have a full time job and that's fucked. They're spending all of their time trying to earn a living and it just isn't enough to do even the simplest of things, because their time is just not valuable enough in the eyes of capitalism.

Reading this almost made me break down and cry. It’s just so fucking true. And it hurts so much because it’s true, specially when you’re at the lower end of the spectrum and getting fucked by society for just being born in a poor family. I have managed to buy a couple books on investment; I also read what I can on the internet to get myself out of this position, but it’s just so fucking hard. I barely have time to deal with college, shit going on at home, shit happening in this country (not USA but a territory), and with my own depression. I don’t have time nor the energy to learn a skill or enough information I can use to get out of here. It just fucking hurts so much because what you said is true.

Exactly. It does hurt, and that's why people like to pretend it isn't that way. It's easier to act like poor people are poor because they're bad people, and rich people are rich because they're good people. There is no such thing as karma and what people get is rarely what they deserve, positive or negative.

People are poor because they're born poor, it's that simple. I'm not saying people born rich don't work for the things they have, they do, but they don't know struggle. They don't understand that things that are easy for them are hard for people who haven't had the same advantages. Two people who go to the same school can have vastly different experiences because their home lives are so different. Rich parents generally expect more, and why shouldn't they? They provide so much, there's really no excuse for their kids to fail. Poor parents are generally just happy if their kids are getting by, because they likely don't understand a lot of the homework their kids are bring home themselves - I know my family couldn't help me with mine past a certain year.

And while wealthier people obviously get things like depression, anxiety and other more serious mental health issues, it's so disingenuous to act like these things aren't far more common - normal, even - in poorer communities. Violence happens in all communities and classes but it's a core part of life in poor communities, and violence breeds mental health issues. Children of addicts are much more likely to develop OCD, and there is a lot of drug addicts and alcoholics in poor communities. And I'm not even going to start on how rampant child sex abuse is in poor communities.

People just don't want to think about it. They don't want to hear about it. They just want to believe that good things happen to good people, because people like to believe they're good, and that means good things will happen to them. So nice, so easy.

I don't blame them. I'm sitting here complaining about all this from a house, with 4 brick walls, a proper roof and heating, with a TV and a PC connected to the internet. My cupboards have food in them and I even have a washing machine. I'm first world poor. I know there are people out there who are literally dying because the only water they have to drink makes them violently sick. I know there are children out there, being forced to have sex on camera, to sell to rich paedophiles, so that their family can afford to eat. I know that even in the first world, there are people much worst off than me - But I still complain.

Because it shouldn't be that way. For anyone. But as long as people are comfortable, why should they care? Honestly, I have more respect for people who understand all this and say "i don't care" than i do for the people who actively ignore it, and try to say "anything is possible" and try to act like they're great people.

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Thank you.

I think a lot of people will read my comments as "rich people bad! poor people victims!" but it's not that. I don't have a problem with people having money, everyone wants money, everyone wants to be comfortable. What I do have a problem with, is when people act like the only difference between the poor and the rich is bad choices.

As if people choose to be poor. It's ignorant at best, and malicious at worst. So many things happen to poor children that are just considered "normal" in poor communities, that children from comfortable homes would consider abuse. Poverty is traumatic, and trauma in childhood produces mentally ill adults, and mentally ill people struggle to do things that others find simple.

I'm happy for people who are born comfortable and get to live a happy, healthy life. I just want them to acknowledge that they had an advantage, and remember that before they judge people who aren't as well off when it's obvious that person is trying their best, instead of just telling them their best isn't good enough.

you're implying poor people should give up trying to climb the social ladder, and have zero chance of doing so, because they have a low chance of succeeding.

I’m certainly not implying that.

People should always try their best, and poor people are generally the hardest working people.

But what I don’t appreciate, is when people constantly berate poor people for “not trying hard enough”. Just because they haven’t “succeeded” doesn’t mean they aren’t trying their best.

My post was not at all about giving up, but about other people actually offering some support instead of just accusing poor people of being lazy.

You can't buy time, ever.

This is absolutely demonstrably false.

Paying for services is buying time, because now you don't need to spend your time doing those tasks. Lawncare. Ordering groceries and house supplies online. Cleaning service. If you're really wealthy you might hire a personal shopper or an in-house cook.

Why do you think rich people would have so many servants? It's literally buying time.

There's nothing a young person without money can do that an older person with money can't do

I love sports. I won't be able to fight if I'm old.

And about traveling, you can travel in with little money as long as you don't need to fly. Working in a hotel half the day for breakfast and room for the night, selling things in the streets, doing volunteers are all options

Somebody sounds a little salty about the circumstances that they have created for themselves. I dont claim to know the guy in the OP, but he probably put in alot of work for his money. Start taking responsibility for your lot in life

Yeah, i mean fuck me for being a little bitter about being born to an alcoholic who became a heroin addict before I was even 4, being molested as a baby and all the ways that fucked with my subconscious, watching my mum beat my nan - the person I was lucky enough to have raise me - on a regular basis, laying awake at night at the age of 9, wondering if my prostitute mother was dead in a ditch somewhere because I hadn't seen or heard from her in weeks, having the shit beaten out of me occasionally, and after all that still considering myself lucky because I knew it could be worse, the severe depression, anxiety and agoraphobia I developed as a result of all this trauma - Yep, totally created those circumstances for myself. I just choose to be mentally ill, and i totally should have known better, as a child, than to have allowed myself to be raised like that.

I take responsibility for my actions, as an adult. but i'm not going to take responsibility for things that happened to me, that were out of my control, that happened before I was even old enough to understand responsibility. I deal the the consequences of my childhood as best I can.

No where did I say the guy didn't work for his money, even people who grew up with no money often forget what it was like to live without it, or assume because they did it, anyone can. People who start off poor and end up millionaires are the exceptions to the rule.

My post had nothing to do with how he got his money, just point out the fact that an older person can do anything a younger person can do, plus a lot more when they also have a lot of money.

Yada yada yada. My dad used to beat me and my mom every night, pal. Nobody cares. You choose who you are, regardless of the circumstances

Edit: Also, the guy made his money, Im sure he knows what he can do with it and what he can't.

So if you're an abuse victim you know the kind of mental scaring it can leave on people, and while you may have been strong enough to move past it, a lot of people simply are not. Drink, drugs, other forms of self harm and escapism, severe mental illness.

Just because you came out the other side "ok" that doesn't mean other people are somehow bad, or to blame for not being able to. That kind of "if I can do it, anyone can" mentality is part of the problem. not everyone in a similar situation to you may have been as smart as you, or as driven, or presented with the same opportunities to get out as you.

Maybe learn some empathy.

But WHAT do I do?

What are your desires? What do you wish you could do but you dont because its too crazy? Do you ever daydream about anything?

I want to be a dragon

If you train for 10,000 hours you'll be one of the best dragons ever.

Man I want to be a dragon too!

I daydream about having the drive to really commit myself to something. I keep trying but nothing grabs me. Guess I'll just keep bangin my head against the wall, at some point somethings gotta give right?

I also daydream about being back with my ex. I was just a much happier person when I had someone who really got me and cared about me. It was also nice to know someone had my back and to care so much about someone. know I'm young and I should do what's best for my future, but I really wish I hadn't moved. The only thing that broke us up was distance.

Sorry to vent to a stranger on the Internet, I don't have anyone I can vent to anymore and things are rough.

Sound like you daydream about having a reason to daydream. I think a lot of people feel that way, myself included. We want a purpose and meaning, and it feels weird that we have to make the purpose ourselfs.

Having one person that you trust, love and can confide is one of the best things in life, so its absolutly reasonable that you think about your ex.

Yeah, sure. I have so much time after going to work at 8:30 to be there at 9 to leave at 6PM, get home at 7 if I stop by the supermarket, walk the dog and cook dinner, oh look it's fucking 9.

I'd rather take the money please.

Why not go to the supermarket on the weekend? Sunday morning or something. Meal prep so you can throw food in the microwave and eat it? Why think of walking the dog as a chore and not an unwinding and relaxing period that you can spend outside with one of the best companions you can ask for? You have time and you can do what you want, make it work because people are capable of so much if they stop with the excuses.

I appreciate the positivism, but real life is more often grittier than our perfect version of what could be.

My girlfriend and I already go to the supermarket on weekends, but often it's a waste of our free time when it's just easier to go biweekly after work. Walking my boi is, of course, also a pleasure - I got him fully knowing he'd be a hobby and not a piece of furniture after all - but it's also a chain that binds you to not taking off your shoes and lay on the couch when you want. And I enjoy cooking a lot, it's my hobby.

The problem is even though I'm enjoying these things I still don't have any time - They're still, in the end, chores. I'd rather have money and turn these things into actual pleasure than a bittersweet mix of needs-to-be-done-but-I-like-it.

I feel that. I'm glad those things are hobbies, you framed them as negative parts but I guess only because they are constant "to-dos". Maybe try to find a nice balance? For example meal prep for half the week and the other days you can focus on growing your cooking hobby. The nights you don't have to cook are free to do something else.

Step 1: have a healthy mindset Most of the Young people who waste their time is because a mild depression or a serious depression. Also because some people dont find the right person to trust and to move forward.

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Go to a therapist.

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A lot of employers offer a free benefit called the Employee Assistance Program (EAP). It allows you to talk to a licensed therapist either on the phone or in person, usually for up to around 6 sessions, for free. You should check if either of your parents have this benefit. You don't need to be enrolled in their benefits either, as long as you're living in the same house (and honestly you could probably bend the truth there if you're not).

Good luck!

Try a counselor. They're not as "official" as therapists (i.e they usually can't sign any forms confirming any "diagnoses" or refer you for things etc) and so they cost a hell of a lot less. And the fact that it's not a big money-making job also means they often are people that just care so much about helping others.

You might even be surprised to find out some counselors might be able to work you in for free for a half session a week, and arrange some sort of payment plan for when you're on your feet. I've even heard of dentists doing that. It never hurts to tell people you're in a bad place and not able to pull yourself out. Some won't care (so don't let them get to you), but the ones that do will make all the difference.

Is there not a therapist at your school? That helped me when I was going through the same thing.

how can i not be depressed? anything i am passionate about doing is not profitable.

Eventuallly you'll have to accept that fact and move on. Most creative endeavors can be wildly beneficial but also incredibly demoralizing if you "don't make it". When you come to terms with the fact that your desired profession doesn't (in your current state) gain anything for an employer you might see things differently. Why would they give you resources without any insurance of a return on that investment, would you?

Your choices is to pursue a career of your desired profession if you believe in your abilities or take a different path. Or even better, do both part-time if you can manage that. Good luck.

Genuinely good advice - just because you want to do something or have a passion for it doesn't mean you have the skillset or abilities.

It's tough, but it's better to be honest with yourself.

Also because some people dont find the right person to trust and to move forward.

You don't need trust/love to move forward, just the capacity to separate yourself from emotion.

No, you don't separate yourself from your emotions, that's just asking for trouble. You should seek to understand and process your emotions, accept them, and move on with that part of you intact and functioning.

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Those are a lot of assumptions

And yet they are very reasonable assumptions.

Alternatively, amp it up. Save greater percentages of your take-home pay, and retire earlier. Who would do work they hate for 50+ years if they didn't have to?

Have you done this?

Or did you just read it online?

Million bucks ain't much, mate. Even if you start that young and it's a long time to make a million.

Lots of things happen in a lifetime, there will be many months you can't save that money, because of life; but you probably haven't experienced that much yet.

A million is not that much but $100/month isn't much either and a 3% increase per year would mean you would only put away $378/month at year 45. If you have a decent or good job then you could increase that amount a lot.

A lot of us are in the process of doing this right now. I've been working for about 4 years and have ~150k saved together with my wife. We project to have several million dollars saved by the time we hit 50, and I plan to pull the plug on working about then.

Obviously there are months we can't save what we want, life gets in the way. Weddings, medical emergencies, etc. But all in all, we generally save about 30% of our take-home pay each year.

And you're right, a million bucks isn't much. Which is why you need to save more than $100 per month :)

I'm saving 1k a month and I still don't know what to do with the money aside from keeping them in the bank smh :/ they don't teach you how to manage your finances and I'm sketchy about bank promoters promising you big earnings if you give them money and stuff like that :/

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I'm not that great on that stuff, my plan was just stocking them in a deposit account and have the interest cover the expenses/inflation rate over time.

I worry that if I start diversify, invest or things like that I'll end up with loads of extra work to follow up and more opportunities to screw up or waste/lose money :(

r/financialindependence and r/personalfinance for the US and r/FIREUK and r/UKpersonalfinance for the UK are great places to start, depending on your location. Just putting money in to a bank is unlikely to be very beneficial, at least in the UK bank interest rates are sub-inflation so you'd actually be losing money, though I'm not sure how this compares to in the US or elsewhere. Either way for money that's not needed for at least five years investing it is generally the best option (but obviously has some extra risk attached). A good place to start getting your head around investing, and keeping it simple, is a book call Smarter Investing by Tim Hale; though those subs I mentioned would be a gentler introduction.

thanks a bunch!! I'll check there as well :)

Have you done this?

How long have you been doing this?

Did you just read about it on the internet?

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Starting at 0 with the same parameters and you'd end up with $730k. Being in debt means you've already invested in yourself (house, apartment, education etc) which should give you an edge in the long run. If you default on your credit card or have some other debt from bad decisions then other standards apply obviously.

My point isn't that everyone can become a Dan Bilzerian if they just save money. The point is that if you start saving early if your life then even a small amount every month will add up to a pretty nice sum of money over the years.

Then you invest that 1 million at retirement in an investment opportunity you can offer fund 16% ROI per annum which means you receive 160k pa in interest you can treat like a salary every year and still have the one million sat there

Lmao I don't know what you're smoking but I'll have some. Man those rates.

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You're quoting over the past 90 years. There's a reason why we make a difference between baby boomers and millennials.

Past performance does not guarantee future results- 1st rule of investing; and yes, I do know 2017 was a 17% year

8% a year? Holy fuck here in poland ill be lucky if i find 2.5% in any bank....

You won’t find 8% in banking interest in a million years he means other investment portfolios such as trading accounts or bonds or what have you

Banks are a joke and in my bank the highest interest bank savings I have is 0.4%

Not a bank. The stock market.

That is so true time is the the only finite thing

> time is the the only finite thing

Also, footlongs.

But one is more important, and you can order only the important one with cheese and bread toasted.

I'm pretty sure you can order footlongs with cheese and bread toasted.

Shit I fucked it up, fixed it

On the flip side, I can do more with his money than with my time.

To add to that: in your 20s if you are child-free it is almost never too late for anything. Your time is a massive asset so even if you spend a year or two being directionless, you can easily bounce back.

Don't ever write something off in your 20s because "what's the point, I've wasted so much time already" or "it'll take ages" or "everyone else is so far ahead of me/ better than me/ etc.".

Like, I almost didn't finish my university degree because the depressive episode I was dealing with led me down this train of thought. Thank god I re-enrolled though! I got my BA six years out of high school instead of three or four -- so what? It seemed like such a big mental hurdle at the time and now, years later, I can't fathom why. There's people out there getting degrees in their 30s and 40s or beyond!

I also resisted starting up various hobbies because I felt like I was too late to the game, i.e. others had picked them up as kids and I would never be as accomplished. Well, what a dumbass mindset. Right now is the youngest any of us will ever be again. Is there something you always wanted to try? Do it now! Are there people who will outdo you? Yes, but so what?

So I'm starting new hobbies in my 30s even though I can barely dedicate more than a few hours a month. Still, feels good to finally overcome my own self-defeatism.

So, what would he have done with the time?

Great advice! I've tried to live by this the best that I can by combining work, travel, hobbies and studies. Specifically emphasizing learning and experiencing new things. At university for example, although there's a ton of things to do, and if you can stay motivated and inspired, there's an infinite amount of resources and knowledge for you to reach out and take. The access you have to libraries, professors, research facilities and what not. If there's something that interests you or you want to learn more about, you can.

I think a lot of people regret that combination of actually having time but not really doing anything useful with it. Can be anything from learning something totally new to taking a one day hike if you have a day off.

Yeah well, unfortunately people in their 20s don't have any time either... I'm 23, work 8 hours a day, absolutely exhausted afterwards, then need to grind through housekeeping tasks, interact with my wife, little bit of relaxing in the form of gaming, then off to sleep. Millionaires have way more free time. They don't have to work, so they can do whatever they want.

Could you elaborate how being say 20 is better than being 50 with $ 1 million? What could a young man do that is worth more than one million?

You could easily make more than $1,000,000 by working an average salary job over 30 years.

There is a big difference between making and saving that amount, I made 2 million but have been able to save 100k only.

We wasn’t put on this planet with the life goal to make money we were put here to enjoy it, enjoy the simplicity of life and be happy finding time to enjoy things you are interested in.

Living in poverty is a man made issue and a result of failed politics over many decades.

Money isn’t everything and being rich can ruin your life worse than not having much money believe me the grass isn’t always greener on the other side, why do you think all the rich people in the big houses have to drink brandy and take antidepressants/ coke everyday to stay afloat, it’s pure stress.

Thanks that is thoughful

Live in a body that's 30 years younger with an entire future ahead of them? Not be halfway (or over) their time on this Earth?

Nothing. It's a shit quote that just sounds enlightened.

"I can do more with your time than you can do with my money."

He says from atop a pile of social capital, monetary resources, and the benefit of hindsight. There's nothing special about the well-off, aside from being okay with psychopathy.

You really think the only deciding factor between the well off and the everyman is being a psychopath?

Well there's often also a small loan of a few million dollars involved too

Well duh what other thing could there be? Lol

I‘m 27, student, and less free time than an average employee. Same thing for my co-students.

I wasted my twenty studying engineering and I'm still studying it. I'm young but really I haven't got any time. This is so sad.

That friend is a smart one

Woah, that shit is deep

That is fucking profound...

I can do more with your time than you can do with my money." .

Goddamn that's pure unadulterated wisdom right there

I call bs why didn't he do it then?

sidenote: depending on how close you are (mere acquintances or actual friends) this would be an "unrealistic" scenario for me. if I, for some reason, ever surprisingly got rich, my close friends would hardly ever have to worry about money as well.

(and I don't even think that's completely "selfless". I mean, what's all the money in the world if you don't have people to share the fun with?)

That's what you think until you realize you are actually the most popular guy in the world. Jeff from third grade was apparently best friends with you?

that's what I meant when I mentioned friends/acquintances. freaking Jeff can get lost.

but I couldn't stand the idea of close friends, many of which I have been through hell and high water with, to have any sort of struggle financially when I could easily support them as well.

What I'm trying to say is that you will end up burning more bridges than supporting friends and family. Your cousin Jim gets to go on vacation with you but your other cousin didn't even get an invite to Christmas?

A lot of law suits happen when people think they're being generous with dat cash flow.

Yea, seems like he meant he can do more in life, not necessarily do more financially

Maybe only he can

Thats deep.

Yep, being alive is a prerequisite to doing.

What exactly would he do with my time? If I knew something amazing I could do, I would do it. But I don't...

Did he use it to improve the lives of the less fortunate at least?

Eh, I think I’d rather live 10 years with a bunch of money than 60 with none.

I'll trade you my age for your money

I mean that's basically what a job is. trading some millionaire your time for their money.

And here I am wasting my time in my dead end office job...

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"It gets harder as you get older"

I am so scared to be alone my whole life 😥😢

I'm pretty sure being alone is superior than being miserable.

also theres more to life than love! Learnt that the hard way.

Amen to that. Being single, you have the sole power of decision. You can literally change everything about your life and not have to mold your plans around anyone else. It's liberating. When/if you find "the one", you won't want to do anything without them.

Jokes on you, I'm both at the same time.

They are one and the same.

If you're a man, it gets way easier as you hit 30, and continually gets easier every year after that.

Of course there are many exceptions to this rule... many men I know have aged horribly.

Exercise and diet. Same is true for any human being.

Unfortunately, exercise and diet can’t change everything...

You can’t fix ugly (not all men but many really don’t age that well) but hopefully they can find someone to love beneath the surface. Same thing applies to ladies too.

Men age like wine

Some get better, and some go sour.

Why do you think that is the case?

Societal value placed on men being providers, which they only get better at as they get older (on average), compared to pressure on women as they lose their primary social value of child-bearers and physical attractiveness judged on a metric of youthfulness.

It ain't right, but it is.

They don’t think it be like it is, but it do

Also maturity in men is just so much more attractive than immaturity in boys

You should be your best companion. Really, learn to really like yourself before entering in a relationship. I've made the mistake of not likinge enough and almost lost my mind over it.

Nah, this is just a trope that gets repeated.

If only people who were at peace with themselves or defeated all their demons or however you define “liking yourself” ever got into relationships humanity would have gone extinct.

I was scared to be alone all my life, and now (I'm in my 60s) is the first time I feel good about being alone. But then I'm not alone - I have few but deep relationships (not romantic) that feed me. I worked hard on changing things in my life and changing myself into a person I can accept and like more, and finally it's happening. And though there are still many things in my life that I'm not satisfied with - I can live alone and not feel lonely. So my advice to xSick would be - it's a mistake to not work on changing yourself into a person you can love and respect.

Don't let that person scare you, mature adults are so much fucking better to date

My single greatest fear is finding the love of my life and losing her somehow.

Please don't buy into that. I love being a fierce independent woman.

There are worse things than being single.

Amen to that! Ending my previous 4 year relationship seemed like the worst possible thing, but it gave me all the freedom to finally spend time with and for myself. 10/10, would recommend.

Same exact thing here!!

This. Believing that mediocrity is just the product of a drama-free relationship, redefining what love is, staying with someone bc they haven’t given me a reason to leave, and believing that “if it’s not meant to happen, it won’t” is why i’ll be divorced in 2 weeks after an 8 year relationship (married for ~1 year). I fell in love with the life I made with him, not actually him though. Lots of guilt here. I’ve learned some things about myself that I’m not proud of.

How did you realize this? I feel like I might be in a similar situation. 7 years married, one year dating. Love our home, our pets, our lifestyle, but questioning the rest.

Hard to say how exactly I realized it, to me it seemed to come all crashing down within my head shortly after we got married. I was in major denial about some things for years. Wasn’t sure if the problem was fixable so I was honest with him and we spent almost the entire year trying to make it work so that we both could be happy. In the end, for us, it wasn’t fixable. Ending it was probably one of the most difficult things I’ve ever done, but it was the right call.

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I think it’s a pretty common thing to fall out of love.. out and sometimes in again from what I’ve gathered. Some couples can work through it and be stronger than ever.

But I also think it’s super difficult to leave when your heart wants to but you don’t have a tangible reason. So people stay just because they don’t know why they want to leave.

I foolishly believed that if it was wrong, something would have happened to break us up. Nothing did. I had to. Staying inert is a decision in itself. Choosing to do nothing is still choosing something.

Don't stick to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

it gets harder as you get older

also, it gets softer as you get older

Reading the deadbedrooms subreddit is so infuriating for this. Everyone's pissed but most stay. So not worth it.

Why do people feel the need to be in a relationship? Finding a partner in life is not necessarily a milestone for maturity. There are tons of emotionally immature people in relationships and marriages. There aren't just worse things than being single, but there's also nothing wrong with being single and staying single.

That's where I am right now, our lease is up in October

Ah, the sunken cost fallacy. Classic mistake.

I got back with ex but i shouldbt have but i dont wanna make her suicidial again ;((

I probably just need to mature But no matter how hard I have tried, through weight loss or by improving myself and trying to date, I have never had a relationship nor and stand at all.

I know its not something to run into, but im 22 now. By the time any woman remotely shows interest back I feel they will already have a kid from them dating around. How do I avoid that? I dont want kids until im older, but I especially do not want to deal with someone elses kid. It just wont work for me.

Dude you're just 22. You've a long way to go. The next ten years will shape you up and you'll be a much better adult. Also where are you girls aged 26 ish have kids? I mean, sure some might. But the majority I'd still think would be single or at least not having kids.

On dating sites I'd imagine. There's a decent number of single moms on there

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I am at the point of working on myself, but again I want to have some experience before a life of solitude. I want that relationship buildup and if it goes bad, I can learn from that. But having no simple relationships has me depleted as well as not giving me enough experience to get through to someone.

It actually gets softer as you get older, and then it's hard to get hard.

I'd love to know some of these things that are allegedly worse than being single.

Are you serious? Maybe I read your comment wrong but do you really think a shitty relationship can't be worse than being single?

Completely serious.

To be fair to you I think it's easy to make that assumption having not been in a shitty relationship (I'm assuming, perhaps you speak with authority on the subject I have no idea). I can totally empathise with one shitty relationship being better than no relationship ever but in general, assuming that you have other relationships, being single is a better alternative to a bad relationship.

Not wearing hearing protection in loud situations. The tinnitus is real, man. MAWP!

Weekend gigging musician here: Please for the love of God protect your hearing. I can't hear half as well as I used to and I've been playing music of all kinds for most of my life. I thought I was too cool for earplugs and I've only just now started being proactive about it. I'm 26. Tinnitus is NOT fucking cool!

To other musicians: in-ear monitors can help reduce hearing loss. Use them as much as possible.

In ear-monitors? Why?

Regular desktop monitors spray sound and usually will need to be louder. In ears are quieter and allow for more focused sound which means it can be quieter. Also, you can further reduce this when making music by keeping volume low as when working on a track you'll become accustomed to it and it will sound louder. If you want to feel the bass this won't work as well but there are workarounds for this.

What is the bass work around?

I make rap music and I need mah bass, so it always ends up with me turning up the volume.....which I don't want to do anymore.

When do you need more bass? Monitoring, producing, mixing?

If outside the vocal booth, try putting a sub behind you at roughly stomach or chest level. Depending on your room this may or may not be even possible, but it sure helps you "feel" it. Just take it with a grain of salt when you're mixing. Most subs have a +/- circuit as well that you can play with.

in-ears are more typically for live performances. In a studio setting monitors are better than headphones, providing better representation and less auditory fatigue

Ah, that makes sense.

In-ear monitors also make you a better player, imo

Abaolutely! My band has tightened up tremendously since applying them to our live sound since we don't have to struggle to hear our respective mixes.

I've been thinking of getting in-ears and I just checked.

Fuck that's expensive...

Honestly depends on what you get; non-custom with foam eartips is what I'm using right now and they only cost me $150. Shure sells SE-215S for $99 and I started with a cheap wireless system. It's the custom range where it gets pricey.

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I do not use hearing aids as my hearing has thankfully not been reduced to that level that I am aware of.

Gonna be sleeping with a fan on in my room for the ambient noise for the rest of my life

It's the worst when you're in situations without a fan/AC/noise and you just have to force yourself asleep with that incessant ringing knockin at your drums.

There's websites with noise generation literally for that reason. And they've been useful on more than one occasion.

Don't worry man, it's possible for it to become entirely bearable and unnoticeable. I have it, and I sleep in silence now.

For me I realized tinnitus is only a problem if you let it be a problem. A friend of mine and I we’re talking about about it and he said he listened to a podcast where the guy suggested “if you ever start to notice the ringing, take a moment to imagine what your life is going to be like doing day to day things with this ringing in your ears. Is anything going to change about the way you do things? Are you gonna change the way you walk, eat breakfast, go grocery shopping, etc?” And the answer for me was no, my life will be exactly the same, just with a ringing in my ears. And that for me was enough to realize “wow I expend all my emotions into this ringing that doesn’t change my life day to day”. so if I start to hear it, I just pretend it’s not there and your brain does learn to tune it out. Some days are worse than others but I do my best to not let it get to me anymore

How long have you had it?

About 2 years. It fluctuates still for sure, and some days it does get to me, but those days are becoming rarer and rarer. It really does seem to have a huge psychological component, the less you worry about it the quiter it is.

So true. I got it about two years ago as well. It stressed me out SO MUCH and the stress would just make it even louder. Nowadays i just notice it in very quiet rooms if i’m not busy doing something else. Its amazing what the body can adapt to.

I already do this :(

Look up the Reddit cure for tinnitus. It worked for me when I had a temporary case of it.

Hopefully it works for you friend.

E; I'll try to find it for you tonight if you don't come up with any results

I've been careful about hearing damage my whole life. I've used ear protection and monitored headphone volume. I've only gone to a few loud concerts, but the last one I went to might have been the cause of my tinnitus. My hearing is fine, but tinnitus sucks and I can't wear headphones anymore.

Please y'all, protect your hearing at ALL times, especially around 80dB or above. Turn your music down slightly and wear ear protection for concerts and other loud situations.

Omg this!!!! My dad has tinnitus after almost 30 years of working in loud environments. I feel so so bad for him, he’s sacrificed so much for us and it truly pains me to see how much of his health had been sacrificed in the process.

I think i might have it from my adolescence years when going to concerts. After a few years while reading about tinnitus i realized i might have it. It became so normal to me, and the fact that i didn't know something is wrong to me, that i thought thats how silence is supposed to sound, a small buzz in your head

Always wear earplugs or whatever. I’ve damaged my hearing so that I am not that far off, hearing damage wise, from my dad. He is 68, I am 31. We should not have similar levels of hearing loss, but we do.

Wrong thread, tell this to all the teenagers who are discovering concerts. I've probably had tinnitus since I was 16. So much ringing...

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I hit my mid-20s and can't do gigs without ear protection anymore. I remember when I was 18 and saw Nickleback my ears were ringing for 3 days afterward. I recently saw Queens of the Stone Age and took my earplugs out for about 10 seconds to see what the "real" sound was like and its just too much for me. But hey, no ringing when my head hits the pillow after the concert which is a huge bonus!

Tinnitus sucks so much ass

But not in the good first date way.

If you have a job where you need to elevate your voice whatsoever to have a conversation, wear hearing protection.

I wish someone had clued me in, even though it was just a couple of (industrial) fans going. Tinnitus absolutely blows and it keeps me from hearing the more delicate sounds in my environment, not to mention it’s so gd annoying. I got my first pair on concert earplugs about three years in and since then I always wear them at work. They’re really incognito and all that shows is a tiny clear tube just outside of your ear-hole.

Do you have anything for people that work in loud bars? I mean - so I can still hear someone's order but not the music? I used to be able to listen to music on the lowest settings, now I need it on at least 60%.

I would look at musicians' hearing protection with medium protection. Hearos or maybe Fender. Look for cleanable and reusable.

I've already fucked myself with this one. My parents were big concert goers in their younger days, which got passed down to me. Dad ALWAYS said to take ear plugs, but young me didn't listen and had a bad habit of going to the front walls, right by the amps/speakers. I'm only 23 and I feel like I'm deaf, because if you're too far away or on my left side, I won't hear you over the ringing.

I’ve had terrible tinnitus since I was young, likely from difficulties with bad seasonal allergies. It seriously impacts my hearing. I talk too loudly, I have trouble hearing people talking to me. It’s also very obnoxious and I hate silence. I’m pretty much always listening to music to drown it out which in turn makes it worse.

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Lucky you: You're in a position to change it ! Imagine reading this thread in your 40s and realizikg you did everything wrong.

Pick one or two focus points from the thread and work on them first. Maybe pick after what you want the most. Maybe after what suits your situation best.

Expect some of it to be hard and maybe to fail. That is okay. Sometimes we fail but then we learn.

So, I will say: congratulations! You are now aware of some things you wanna change. Start working on it now :)

The low probability of success and happiness is still preferable to the certainty of misery and depression.

Yeah, but I'm lazy.

You still have to pay taxes.

It's a little overwhelming. I'm almost 22 and currently incapable of taking care of myself. I'm struggling to take showers and eat healthy meals. I'm wasting the time people wish they had.

There is a big difference between wanting to change some things in your life, and then feeling like you! I hope you will reach out to someone professional :(!

"wrong" is really subjective.

from my point of view the jed-I mean you're evi-uhh... wrong!

You’ve got it :)

Eh, my teeth are already royally screwed up.

But they will get worse...trust me,my mindset was theyre too far gone to ever be perfect but now im realizing i shouldve stopped them from getting to where they are now.honestly i still feel like fuck it,they are bad anyways...until i get a toothache

I'm 35 and my teeth are a mess because I didn't take care of them in HS while I had braces, top comment is take care of your teeth... WHELP, too late for me.

Better than reading in your 30's, 40's, 50's and thinking yep everything I did was wrong.

better than reading this in the afterlife and thinking "Damm haven't I been bamboozled lately"

get off reddit and your 20's will be better

On the other hand, I’m realizing I’m doing okay haha. At least at 23.

Reading threads like this in my 20s and realizing I'm already well aware of what's posted in here and that I should be doing it instead of reading about it.

It's a viscous cycle.

Will you Change anything?

Same here damn

I'm reading this thread at 29 so it could be worse.

It's threads like these that remind me of how much fucked I truly am. Goddamn I wish I was healthy. :(

Honestly, I feel like I have my priorities right reading this.

Lol a lot of these replies are unrealistic. Don't beat yourself up.

Reading this thread and realizing I am doing better than I thought. Though I gotta exercise.

Steady. Your 20’s are for making mistakes. The biggest mistake you can make is overthinking it and not enjoying yourself.

I'm almost 30 and this thread has me panicking.

Exactly, live your own life, don’t read all this taking it too seriously

Everyone in their 20's is doing this stuff wrong, that's how they learn and build wisdom into their 30's-40's

Better to realize it now than the people in their late 40s reading this.

It's never too late, many great inventors/billionaires were factory workers at our age. Matthew mccanihuey was a drunk nobody in a bar until he was 30. Timothy Leary and ram dass didn't even try acid until their 40s. There's time :)

These responses are giving me some level of anxiety.

Wish I was paying attention when I was in my early 20s. You have a good opportunity here. Time flies, make good decisions now.

Yeah, the struggle is real

Heavy drinking. You can waste away years of your life like this, thinking you're just "partying." A good friend of mine recently came to terms with his alcoholism. Getting black-out drunk every week for nearly a decade is not normal.

Edit: It's pretty incredible hearing everyone's stories! I'm sorry I can't reply to all of you, but I promise I have/will read every single one. As for my friend, he isn't exactly getting black-out drunk every week but he's not doing great. He has admitted his problems but so far hasn't done anything to slow his drinking. He recently moved across the country so there is little I can do, but these stories have definitely encouraged me to encourage him to seek help.

Not normal, but definitely not frowned upon in college. It's a toxic environment in some colleges. Come thursday night, if you're not out with friends having some drinks, it just seems weird and awkward.

Y'know what's more weird and awkward?

30 or 40 or 50 year old wrecks getting hammered in the bar, looking and feeling like shit

30? No. 40 or 50? Yeah...

What's the difference between 40 or 30 in your mind?

Social circle. Societal expectations.

At 30 you're easily still hanging out with 25 year olds, it's socially acceptable to be single and carefree and flirting with younger people in their 20s at the bar, your career might not be as solid and that's ok, you're still seen as having the youth and energy to bounce back the next day.

At 40 none of that fits. You're too old for most of the opposite sex out late night at the bar. People know you're not going to bounce back solidly the next day. They wonder why you're not going home to your family (note that if you're with your SO it's far more socially acceptable). Etc. Etc.

I also agree with him, not everyone has a family or relationship these days by the time they're 30. Heck, I'll be lucky to have one myself. I made a promise to myself though, I'll stop the all nighter binges, I go on from time to time by the time I'm 35 (I'm 26 this year I can see how this will eventually catch up to me), hopefully by 30 at the earliest (Definitely will happen if I'm in a stable relationship)

It also depends on my work environment as well. Some employers or employees have Friday night drinks, some office jobs having painfully long hours lmao.

30 isn't as old as it used to be. For one thing we're all living longer, for another, there's the obvious cultural issue of millennials having to delay their traditional milestones. I'm 31 and every guy I've met over the last five years is usually no older than 26 - I met my ex when he was 22 and he was 26 when we stopped seeing each other lol. It's totally normal. If I end up dating someone my own age we're both just sad sacks who can't stand being single anymore.

I was watching Gilmore Girls the other day and almost fell the fuck out realizing I could be Lorelai Gilmore.

Just before I read this, I hit up one of my best friends to see if we are going out Thursday night for $1 wells.

Maybe this is why my campus is so empty on Fridays XD

I'm laying here at 03:33 reading this comment, at 20 years of age, Monday night, after drinking 12 500ml beers. I'm about to start my first real proper job this next week. I will improve my life. I want to do so much, travel etc, and I know that won't happen if I drink 4 days out of every week.

Thanks for the motivation m'dude

literally done fuck all the past year cause I was drunk 4-5 days a week, and on the others I was just fed up trying to relax.

it's the absolute worst to do in your twenties. i was lucky to stop drinking completely at 25 and now it's so, so much better. i mean my god staying a drunk into my late twenties and thirties, i think i might have killed myself. it is an absolutely miserable existence.

This is inspiring. I am going to be 23 soon and am coming to terms with my problem. I've reduced my drinking, but I still drink daily, which reduces my performance at work and will kill me in the long run. I think I'm willing to recognize that I don't have the ability to "drink moderately;" either I'm sober or I'm drinking to lose control. I think it might be time to just say no more for me.

/r/stopdrinking

you may have cut down on your drinking, but drinking everyday and it interfering with work.. i know i am coming from a bias perspective but i think most people who do not have problems with alcohol drink everyday or let it interfere with their job. other than the occasional hangover i guess. give it some thought, the stopdrinking community is incredibly supportive. if you only knew how many people in aa rooms wished they had the sight that you have and stopped at 22. seriously give it some thought, you won't look back.

I am also nearing 23 and have been wrestling with my drinking habits. I only will have 1-4 a day.. I am very busy so it is pretty rare i actually get very drunk. but my mother is a horrible alcoholic and I am pretty scared of ending up like her. and i know that if i want to lose the weight i am becoming desperate to lost i'll have to change. ugh.

Alcoholism runs on both sides of my family, and I am fairly confident I got stuck with it. That is good you aren't getting too drunk and are able to prioritize your other duties ahead of drinking.

Someone shared this post with me, and it was pretty eye opening. https://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking/comments/45bndo/the_myth_of_the_functioning_alcoholic/ I think after reading that it helped me make the choice to stop. I have heard so many stories about people losing their livelihood because of alcohol, and I know if i don't stop, that is where I will end up as well.

You're 23 man, plenty of time to make a change. I've always been a fan of the drink, but it's insane how bad booze is for you. My aunt recently passed of pancreatic cancer (which is almost always a death sentence) and we think her drinking played a part. Get active, develop hobbies, and learn to moderate that drinking! You'll feel better, live longer, and look way better.

You get better at it. That said, I am in my mid thirties and dont miss it.

Is drinking only in weekends (6-8 beers a day) also really bad for your health? Is that also considered alcoholism?

i think that might be considered binge drinking if you're drinking that much in one day. there's sort of a blurred line with what is precisely alcoholism and what isn't. i believe that if drinking affects personal relationships, work, or your cognitive abilities when you aren't drinking (other than the occasional hangover, like you notice yourself not as sharp) then yes it is alcoholism.

I’m only 23 but just chiming in to say - it is so easy to tell yourself that you don’t have a problem when your friends are getting really drunk every weekend too.

A few questions that help tell the difference: - do I find it hard to stop drinking once I’ve started? - do I regularly black out when drinking? - have I gotten hurt or hurt someone else while drinking? Feels shitty not to able to drink like everyone else, feels shittier to be 21 and going through withdrawals in mental hospital. No one notices when you abstain. Do what’s best for you.

When going through the comments it's kinda interesting to see that most people start seriously thinking about the effects of drinking at ~23-25.

I feel like by that point it’s been enough years that it’s no longer novel - at least is countries like Aus where the drinking age is 18 and we all start a few years earlier than that

germany here, we start at ~16

Yeah I guess it's the age where it's been some time after highschool, you had enough time to explore the world, or finish college or collect your first work experiences and start thinking fuck I'm an adult what am I doing with my life

Most people I know go nuts in college and slow down when they graduate and get into the real world around 23-24. Some people keep going at the same level which of course is bad but most people tone it down to just going out on the weekends.

I know, it's bizarre. I legitimately can only remember drinking underage once, and that was a New Year's Eve party. I never drank til I was 21, and I think I was "wasted" in college a mere handful of times.

I would probably best be described as a weirdo type though, so it's easy to see why social drinking was never one of my youthful priorities. I was too snotty for that, honestly.

Rule of thumb, if you crave it, you need a break. The moment you think, I need / want alcohol when on the job or doing something at home, you need a break. Don't take it again until you no longer crave it. Doesn't matter how long it takes for the craving to go away. If you stick with this mindset, you shouldn't become dependent on it enough for breaks to require more than a few days to a few weeks. This applies to alcohol at the very least. I'd guess it applies to cigarettes as well, though I don't smoke.

I’m a senior in college now, but back when I was a freshman and sophomore, I admittedly went a bit too crazy and partied/drank a shit ton every weekend pretty much without fail, along with getting drunk a few times during the week depending on my schedule. I also smoked a lot of weed daily and went thru roughly an oz a week at the peak of my usage.

Thankfully I was smart enough to only drink and smoke so often because freshman and sophomore were pretty easy and light loaded, so I could get away with it, and once my course load and difficulty started shooting up these last two years of college, I somehow had enough inner strength to drop my habits to much more “normal” levels.

Still I sometimes wonder how much damage I did end up doing to my physical and mental health over that two year stretch of my ridiculous drinking and smoking habits. How much would binge drinking 12-20 shots every Friday and Saturday (with a few week days sprinkled in the middle of that) along with smoking gram upon gram of marijuana daily for over a year, do to somebody’s body and mind?

Is it possible to have done lasting damage to my developing brain over those two years? I always hear that smoking weed before 25, and binge drinking at any age, let alone so often, can absolutely wreck your developing brain and body.

During brain development stage, drinking and smoking is the most detrimental. If you were a child or teen it would be significantly worse, but hey be glad it was only 2 years. I was a pretty brilliant child but got into partying my sophomore year of highschool. By senior year, I was blacking out every weekend, mostly because I didn't ever get hungover and I never remembered how much of a mess I was. I would wake up and loved piecing the night together (I realised years later that I owe it to incredible friends with lots of patience and tolerance to annoying stupid people). College it only got worse before it got better. Then I got into weed my sophomore year of college which helped me stop drinking so much. After graduating college, I felt like a dumber person. I was stuttering on a regular basis which NEVER happened to me in the past. I zone out and pause when I speak because I forget what I'm saying or dont know what words to use next. My memory is completely horrible now. My best friend in highschool always said I had a scary good memory, being able to recall details from any situation. Recent or in the past. Now I cant remember a person's name the second they say it. Or if someone says remember this four digit number, I cant even guess one correctly.

Although i have some great memories (or lack of), it's not worth deteriorating your brain for a night of fun. An occasional beer or glass or wine is great but binge drinking is completely unnecessary. Have fun but dont do what I did. I wish I could go back and cut down on the drinking. I hate what it's done to my every day speech and thinking

You’re fine, trust me. Maybe a hypochondriac but that’s about it. Plus what the hell ya gona do about it now? You straightened your shit out so you’re good. 2 years is nothing for drinking and smoking unless you were mixing in eight balls and molly a bunch.

Oh don’t get me wrong, it’s not like I’m worried and spend my days thinking about this lol I’m just more curious than anything.

Oh my bad, as far as curiosity goes, liver regenerates very well if no major damage incurred. Brain cells rapidly reproduce. I have a bachelor in communications tho so It’s possible it did make me retarded.

Alcohol affects things like talking, while not having an influence (or rather having a reversible influence) on stuff as problem-solving or attention span.

I got wasted each weekend since I was 15/16 until I was 23. I'm also really wondering how much I damaged.

I’m a senior in college now, but back when I was a freshman and sophomore, I admittedly went a bit too crazy and partied/drank a shit ton every weekend pretty much without fail, along with getting drunk a few times during the week depending on my schedule. I also smoked a lot of weed daily and went thru roughly an oz a week at the peak of my usage.

Everyone goes a little crazy in college, its normal and I would say 50% of people or more did what you did or an equivalent.

Its definitely not healthy but in my experience its nothing too harmful as long as you are healthy in other aspects

I want to get in here and support this comment. I spent the majority of my days from 18-25 drunk. Every day, a fifth or more of $6 whiskey, gained 100 pounds, obese, hangovers constantly, never had any money, emotionally unstable.

But I finished grad school and now have a solid net worth and property at 28, having my first kid this year, and I’ll be starting my dream job as a professor. Lost a ton of weight, too. Getting married this summer. My life turned around entirely and absolutely after quitting drinking.

It was hard, though, and honestly I’m still haunted by the years wasted. I could have published a novel, easily could have been a regionally acclaimed folk musician, or just been happier. For years I was unhappy, because of alcohol.

Be careful around alcohol, and get help if you see yourself becoming dependent.

Getting black-out drunk every week for nearly a decade is not normal.

You've obviously never been to Scotland ;)

Thanks for posting, I was starting to worry... Am Glaswegian. In the pub almost every day. Balancing career and boozing is tricky but not impossible, though I do have a cute beer belly (my SO likes it anyway!)...

I really needed this sort of reassurance today.

Most of reddit seems to be young Americans so not the best people to take long-term drinking advice from!

But who wouldn’t want to trade brain cells and a healthy liver for a nice round beer belly? /s

Well, that's the insidious part of booze. I did heavy binge drinking 1 or 3 nights a week from 17-24, and was still strong, with a six-pack, and reading stimulating books the nights I wasn't hammered.

Plus, it was super-fun alot of the time, and I was enjoying time with other people enjoying music, dancing, wrestling ..

It's when you start getting older and there's diminishing returns, and you start getting fat and stupid, that it'd be smart to stop, but it's so ingrained, it's challenging to associate fun with anything other than booze

When I was around 16-17 I went through a phase where I drank 6 beers a night and ate a 10 pound box of Jelly Bellies over the course of about three months. I gained 50 pounds.

LOL. that's hilarious

I was working 10 or 12 hour shifts of hard manual labour, or I definitely woulda ballooned up, in retrospect. Ate like shit (lots of McDonalds)

Yeah I feel like the labor part is key. I have friends who drink every day in college and are still in good shape because they have all exercised regularly since high school.

When I was In highschool I quit sports and turned into a lazy piece of shit. Thankfully I’m back in good habits now but that beer belly i created over 3 shitty months was hard to get rid of, it’s gone now, but I think I’ll always generally have more fat in my abdominal region because of it.

We're dealing with this with my brother in law. He was actually one of my good friends in middle-high school, and I didn't really know his sister, then we(his sister and I) started dating in our mid 20s. He moved in with us last year at 30 while he goes to a trade school with his GI Bill, and we had some fun drinking every weekend last summer like the old days, but we noticed he kept drinking a 12 pack a day.

We found out from our mother in law that the doctor told him he is having liver problems from the drinking but he won't stop. My wife confronted him a few weeks ago and it's the first time I've ever seen her in a shouting argument. It ended with him saying that he loves drinking and he's never gonna quit.

We completely stopped drinking at home, and dumped all of our liquor bottles that were magically draining, didn't drink for 2 months while dieting, and only recently drank this week because we're on vacation. Our circle of friends(involved with the brother) all quit drinking this year so now he's pissed he has no one to drink with. My wife is getting ready to kick him out because she can't handle seeing her brother like this.

On the other hand, talking to him feels like he's living in high school. He had a nasty divorce a few years ago, his ex(high school sweetheart) got knocked up while he was deployed, and now it feels like he's trying to live the life most people do at 18-22.

I had a lot of thoughts in my head I needed to write out. Most of my friends quit drinking regularly, but 2 of them ramped it up recently. I still like a beer or two when going out for a nice dinner, but getting trashed all the time is dumb.

This. My fiancè was a very heavy drinker/partier for many many years. He was self-destructive with alcohol/drugs in the form of partying, excessively. Dealt with all his pain/past through drinking. One day he finally had enough, he always knew he needed help but he never cared enough to actually go get it. He went to talk to a addictions counsellor, we went to weekly groups together(I went because I wanted to know what he was going to be going through during his recovery). Sobriety started May 2017, a month later we found out we were pregnant, next month he hits a year of sobriety and we have a healthy 2 month old baby boy who gives him even more reason to never look back at the life he lived. He always tells me how much he regrets the life he lived before, the money he wasted on binge drinking for days, on drugs and partying and all the opportunities lost from the hangovers/lack of energy/repression. I always tell him he can no longer hold on to the past of who he was, only learn and grow from that person. Everyday he has become a better version of himself and who he was a year ago to who he is now is completely different and it still wows me. I'm extremely proud of him and happy I always stuck by his side through his recovery.

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i think you need to revisit this and define what you mean, a 52 year old who gets drunk at a party, is not mentally disabled.

If they repeatedly get black out drink once a week, thats a bad sign, but still not disabled. I have a feeling youre just akid yourself.

Honestly the way people approach alcoholism often feels misguided, if you drink as a crutch for other issues- it is an issue(outside of the one-off breakup/other bad things be miserable and drink with friends situations). If you drink because you enjoy it and its social aspects, while having it not negatively impact your life on a regular basis it is likely fine. Fwiw I'm only 20 but I grew up surrounded by alcoholism :P

I’m trying to figure out the position I’m in right now. I’m 23 year old grad student who had a really heavy drinking friend group in undergrad. It was always a fun thing for me, I just love the energy and social lubrication.

Now I have cut back on total intake since my friend group aren’t as big of partiers but I still have a few drinks per evening on average and blowout every other weekend maybe.

It doesn’t seem to affect much as far as I can see. I’ve made efforts to ask more sober friends if they don’t like me always drinking and they said it just makes me more talkative and excitable. I’m a pretty jolly drunk and generally happy person. But I can’t help but feel drinking everyday means I’m covering up something.

Sometimes I stop for a few days just to make sure I can but I soon end up with an excuse to drink again for some social reason. I guess I should try a month or something soon.

Just start with no drinking during the week, and cut back a bit on weekends. Then if you want to go more, make it every other weekend.

Personally I think a glass of wine or beer with dinner or whatever is fine, but if it gets to the point of being drunk every night there might be a problem. Try to confront any emotions you might have been avoiding dealing with, talk to a friend about things, work out where you stand emotionally and go from there. As long as you can be happy sober its just becomes a choice about health vs pleasure. My grandpa has gout and throat cancer from heavy drinking his whole life, hes going to die in his early eighties and cant drink anymore but he loved wine, traveled around the world getting wasted and owned his own liquor store (among many other things). I suppose that was the tradeoff he was willing to make, on a somewhat morbid note. Everything has a cost, what are going to give up?

Edit: things

I'm 34. It's cumulative.

Drinking as a teen or early 20's seems innocuous, because hangovers and such are less noticeable, and you can still be in good shape physically. And honestly, I had a lot of good, wild, wacky times.

The longer the habitual nature of it continues tho, the more diminishing the returns are.

Now I still get the original buzz and warm cheeriness/sociability for the first 30 or 45 mins. Then I just feel meh, but still stimulated. But my brain is so used to heavy drinking from 18-24 that I usually continue to drink until I'm quite drunk, or blackout drunk

And the day after I feel like death, and anxious, and depressed.

shrug Just be aware, it's like any other habit, but even more intense, cuz it re-wires your brain more easily because you're ingesting a drug/chemical

Wait tell you start to get DPs. I've always been an off an on again drinker. But just recently in my mid 30's I started hitting it hard. It got to about a 5th of vodka a day on average. I decided on a whim it was getting out of control. Decided to just stop. And had about a week of pure torture. Shakes, vomiting, no sleep, hallucinations, visual and audible. Pretty much every side effect of it I had. Got through it. And now here I am quite some time later back in the same situation. Again. No liquor, just beer now. It's a terrible viscious cycle I would wish apon not even my worst enemy.

Decided to just stop

Cold turkey is not a good plan for alcoholics, it can be fatal.

https://nypost.com/2017/07/17/quitting-alcohol-cold-turkey-could-be-deadlier-than-kicking-heroin/

I think shaking the habit of it is what will be important for me. I never just get really drunk unless I’m in partying mode but I don’t want my 2-3 beers a night to turn into 5 eventually.

A few drinks every evening isn't too bad. A healthy guy can have like 3 drinks a day without liver damage. As for covering something up, if you're downing 3 shots at once, maybe. If you have beer at dinner and a martini as a post-dinner, that's fine. Mostly depends on your attitude and proceedure. It won't help any fitness goals though.

The blout weekends are the part that does damage. The last part about finding a reason to drink is a bit worrisome. I drank a bit too much at a friend's house and just wanted to fall asleep while my friends and I were watching a movie. At that point, I decided against drinking around others. Fast forward to their college graduation a year later. One of her friends was being socially manipulative each time my friend, the host, left the room. I was glad that I was sober so I could see what was going on.

A healthy guy can have like 3 drinks a day without liver damage

Important to note that this is 3 units of alcohol, so roughly the equivalent of 3 shots (assuming a 40ml/1.35ounce glass) of something with 40% alcohol, or 3 regular cans of beer (330ml/11ounce cans at 5%).

If you mix drinks yourself at home, it's very easy to mix them too strong. Always use a regular shot-glass or a jigger to measure if you want to be accurate.

11oz beer cans? Sounds like a ripoff to me! Haha

11oz beer cans?

The ones on the left.

Aren’t normal beer cans 12 oz??

If so, the ones you have in the US are different from the ones we have in Europe. The ones in Europe hold 330ml, which turns into 11.15oz according to google.

Maybe there's some legal loophole that lets them round up and write 12oz, even though it's barely above 11?

Edit: After some quick Googling around, it seems that the cans in the US are slightly larger than the ones in Europe and hold 355ml, which equals 12oz!

Good point. I used to always measure / count so I would know how much each level of drinking affects me.

Me too. I didn't start drinking until I was 26, as I was weary of the addictive aspects of alcohol. Because of this, I would always try to keep track of how much I imbibed on any given night.

Unfortunately I have a high innate tolerance to alcohol, so those three units will barely get me tipsy. Gave up staying within the "safe" margin quite quickly, and decided to just make sure that my total per week didn't exceed the recommendation (even though I know that binge drinking isn't healthy at all).

Maybe I misrepresented that. By finding an excuse to drink I meant that say I was trying to go a week without boozing but then was invited to a trivia night at a bar - I would just end up drinking because of the environment. I wouldn’t actually seek it out just to drink.

College is just such a drinking culture it’s hard to go a few days even without the offer of a beer.

It's funny you think people who drink a lot can live that long without getting liver cancer. Rip grandad.

You can start drinking any time. A 50 year old with a mental problem can start drinking at age 50 and easily live to 52 or older.

you forgot 12

What about every day?

I drank heavily (just about every day) from 16 to 20 years old with a big group of friends that were the same age to five years older. It was a blast, but also a huge blur and things got out of control.

Parties where everyone is bleeding due to drunken fights, broken flat screen tvs on the ground, beat up and smashed cars, a couple literally running out the door with knives threatening to kill a mutual friend while me and my husband (then boyfriend) hold their two scared children. Bad shit, too much to name.

One friend tried to commit suicide in a hotel shower, we were all so drunk- the situation was handled, but I'm not sure it was handled the way it should have been? The memory is blurry, but I think of it often. He ended up shooting himself, drunk and on pills, when none of us were around months later. It was hard to swallow, and it definitely changed our friend group.

But none of my friends made it out of this alcoholism, even after his death. The day to day life just continued on.. which is the scariest part, and it only got worse. Those 18 year olds are now 26 doing the same thing, they are still bums living off of each other (currently a 60 year old pervs property, before it was the couple mentioned above) and their daily drinking continued.

I've gone to a few get togethers over the years, only to be treated like I've somehow snubbed them for not hanging out anymore. Its hard too, being sober while talking to some of my oldest friends and watching them not even be capable of holding a conversation, let alone actually keep their eyes open.

Even my best girl friends, who both moved away, still struggle with their drinking problem- they still drink every day and don't believe they can/want to stop.

I was lucky. I met my husband in that mess, we had a few good party years and then we tapered off on the drinking (which was hard to break the habit but it truly lost what even made it fun). We got our own place, got jobs, did the whole wedding thing and now have a baby on the way! Which has got me thinking about the past often, and how much I've changed.

Also how I miss it sometimes. The morning sickness reminds me of the worst of times... it helps.

RIP Avicii

Congratulations on 4 days alcohol free!

I'm trying to work on this but it's so hard.

Grew up in a small town. Both parents were/are drinkers. Dad would be in the pub every night after work and my mother would drink wine or vodka at home. I just assumed that this was a regular thing for most people. Drank to oblivion with my friends from about 15 up til 25ish, then met my GF and have been with her ever since. I usually drink 3/4 Coors light a night and then a few craft beers and much more Coors Fri/Sat/Sun... IT's not uncommon for me to go weeks without having a day off.... Oh I smoke bud daily too. 3/4 pipes... My G/F doesn't really drink so she notices quite a bit when the recycling is just full of empty cans. I even try to hide the amount of them from her... Not good.

My skin has been so bad recently. Acne/Redness/Peeling, and I'm putting it down mainly to the drink so I'm trying to cut down a little in the week. Took monday off, drank 3 Buds last night and hoping for another sober night tonight. I have a lot of anxiety and worries and I try to mask them with drinking.

I need help I guess.

Getting black-out drunk every week for nearly a decade is not normal.

ask avici

Every week or every day?

Got all my heavy drinking out in college and maybe a year after. Luckily for me after I turned 23 my body just refused. More than three drinks and I'll be asleep.

I started working as a whisky supplier last year and the job comes with a lot of drinking. I didn't touch spirits for quite a while after college, but got back into it to "train my palette". After 7 months of nonstop binge drinking I completely drained myself and cut it down to <2 drinks a day and nothing over 15% abv.

I wish I could stop completely for a while but it's hard. I keep telling people I'm on antibiotics so they stop asking questions.

is not normal.

Speak for yourself.

I drank lightly in the end of my high school (1-2 drinks per party I went to, and that was like maybe every other month)

Fairly/pretty heavily in college (went out every weekend, got anywhere from moderate drunk/pretty drunk on a weekend basis)

The time that I realized I need to really really start watching this was shortly after I moved to Seattle for my first job out of college. Seasonal Affective Disorder is a real thing here, and there would be evenings that after work, I would buy a couple big cans of shitty beer/FourLoko/Mike's and drink them daily.

Fortunately, this only lasted about 2 months and I was gifted with the self-awareness to notice that this could become a problem.

Nowadays, I'm constantly aware of my drinking and keep track of it. It's markedly come down over the years, and now at 25, I still get drunk from time to time, but it's definitely a lot better. I've gone weekends without drinking, and on weekends I DO drink, I try to keep it below 5 units for the entire weekend.

It's a dangerous drug, there is absolutely no safe dose for your body, but much like anything else, you gotta weigh the tradeoffs of whether you want to do it or not

No fucking joke. I'm 22 now, and alcohol has its hooks in me good and proper. I went through my first few years of college doing the whole party thing, but not really drinking too much. I was very wary of it, since alcoholism runs in my family.

Then during the summer two years ago I was making money, so I started having a beer in the evening after work. I figured I might as well live a little, so that turned into two or three beers. By then end of the summer it was eight beers a night, and in Ireland beer is 500ml cans, so that's 4 litres a night. On weekends it was twelve beers.

I kept the habit up during the academic year, though I couldn't afford that much beer so I moved onto gin. The thing about gin is that it's too easy to drink, it tastes like whatever you mix it with.

In the end I dropped out of college this year since I missed so much, and I scrambled my brains being either drunk or hungover. I still drink, though not as much, which stresses me out - but I know that's for the best.

I guess the moral of this is, if you don't have the willpower or grit, please don't drink. When it gets its grip on you, it doesn't let go. What's really fucked up about addiction is that I am fully aware of the damage I'm doing to myself. I know it's of no benefit to me, but I like the way it makes me feel too much. I would go so far as to say I love it. I like being a drunk, even though I know I shouldn't.

This. 2005 to 2013 is just a blur. So much time wasted being hungover when i thought i was just partying. Thankfully I've cut down on it.

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You are rationalizing it. Stop! I'm in exactly the same boat. We should stop!

Yeah man. I started realizing I was drinking solo and to not think anymore (maybe depression?). Basically said to myself "never drink alone" and dumped all my own stuff down the drain. Shit's dangerous for me, yo.

Removed my original replies because I realised how incredibly poorly they were formatted/"built up". Anyhow. I'm glad for anyone who has realised what their issues are and gotten hold of them. As for drinking, if we pull away the occassional beer, I very rarely drink "much" on my own but instead go with friends, which I'm happy to do since I feel like heavy drinking solo quickly can, as you assumed, distinguish itself and is in fact depression or another illness when you really start digging.

Not saying that going with friends automatically protects you from getting into the habit of drinking too much though - it's all about responsibility in the end I feel like, and there's a reason most alcoholic beverages you buy from the store have the "DRINK RESPONSIBLY" label printed on them (for what they're worth).

I came from a small town. Most people I graduated high school with are like this (or at least the ones I still keep up with, which isn’t many). They get stupid drunk every week once or twice because “I like to party, I deserve it.” Or some weird justification that doesn’t suit an adult. They can make up some pretty thin excuses for constantly getting blackout drunk. Some of them are parents.

Get loans, credit cards that they cant fully pay off.

Spend more money then you truly have or make.

I did all that. Now im punished by my own poor mistakes of trying to spend money with ppl who make way more.

I got 2-3 more yrs and im paid off.

Never try and keep up with the Joneses.

sometimes it's unfortunately keeping up with the bills. :c while I was unemployed and graduated, I was fucked with zero income and had to suddenly live off a credit card. I felt like guilty shit doing it, and am now paying the price. But what choice does one have in those situations?

Depending on your area, there are usually social services or at least charities for people in that situation.

But never fall and be complacent.

Why the hell not? Some of the richest people in the world live fairly frugal day-to-day lives.

I live in Wales. Half the people I meet are Joneses.

That's the name of my WiFi network. We moved into a fancy neighborhood after living in a dump of a rental house and it seemed very fitting at the time. 😁

or the kardashians

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I'm there too brother! You are NOT alone.

It feels so good to know that i was not the only idiot that made These mistakes. I always thought i was especially stupid but i am just normal stupid.

Sister in law just recently moved out on her own. Hasn't had any of her quarterly bills yet (you know, the big ones) and is constantly sending pics to my wife of expensive shit she bought. He most recent purchase was a $300 dress that she can't wear anywhere and litterally can't be cleaned except for maybe a dust off.

That was half her pay that week. Her rent is about 40% every week as well.

I'm waiting for the call to borrow money any day now.

True. I'm currently in a bit of debt but fortunately not that much. The CCs will probably be paid off by October/November. I did buy a car but that will be covered in two years if I follow the current payment schedule. I take this advice as a warning. If I don't watch my finances this small debt could snowball into a huge one. Better be careful and not spend in stupid useless things!

I had 699 credit at 19 before I put myself into $5k of debt twice (seperately) on minimum wage. At the worst, I think I had a 602, but with tax refunds and a much better job, i've managed to put it up to 754. I think my only major limiting factor is age of credit.

What do people even spend their money on to get into this much debt? I know people who make twice as much as I do with less bills who have thousands in debt, whereas my debt is only my minuscule student loans. Is everyone but me secretly a drug addict? I've probably made $700 in profit from my credit cards and I'm a self-admitted dumb fuck.

What would you consider a nice amount of savings

everything you spend in a month (be realistic!..overestimate) times 6

If you don't mind me asking, how much debt did you owe at the peak of it? I'm in a similar situation and I just got a new job that pays more. I'm planning on killing the debt asap. Mid 20s here.

40 K ish...it's absurd, I realize that. My advice..have just one general card that gives you lots of points or cash back that you use and pay off EVERY month to build your credit. Do not open store cards unless it's for one large purchase that will give you a discount and then pay that completely off too. Don't make any large purchase until you have that money in your account.

Better yet, before you but yourself anything major...make sure you are maxing your retirement account at your job with the automatic deductions from your paycheck. Also check out r/personalfinance for other additional retirement accounts you can be taking advantage of in addition to what your work offers you.

Also add up all your expenses for a month..be realistic (i.e. overestimate a bit) and write it all out. Times that amount by 6 and make sure you have that amount in a personal savings account for a rainy day. My debt is extra insane because my husband lost his job last year and then got into a serious car accident. He was out of work for months and we had no savings. We are in our early 30s and you don't think shit like that will happen to you but it might...

Stick to a budget! Just do it. Good luck.

hpw would you rank likr college debt with that? is college debt good?

IMO in the grand scheme of things, college debt isn't nearly as bad as credit card debt with a high interest rate. I borrowed ~$30k in the late 90's for college and I'm still paying it off, but my monthly payment including interest is only $138 or so. They give you forever and a day to pay it off. Yeah, you want to pay it off if you can, but if you've got high interest cc debt, pay that shit off first.

I made the same mistake in my 20s as many here and ran up some cc debt. Husband and I took out a consolidation loan that will have it all paid off in another 2 years. I wish I had more dispensable income now at 43 but in 2 years things will be much better. I wish I'd never gotten into that hole in the first place, especially since I have nothing to show for it now (those clothes are long gone, etc.)

Probably the best thing that built my credit was an interest free credit card from a department store. Buy one nice thing like a pair of shoes or a purse, pay it off over a couple of months. Rinse and repeat. Just don't let the balance get high.

What the hell are you people buying in your 20s that puts you in years of debt? A fucking yacht? All through my 20s as long as I've had income my expenses have been rent, utilities, phone bill, groceries, occasional restaurants/eating out, and once every several months, maybe some new clothes. I couldn't go into debt if I tried. The only way I can see going into that much debt is having no income for years, but it doesn't sound like that is/was your situation. So I don't get how you're in that much debt.

I bought a used car from a dealership for about 10k and three months later, just outside the range of the Lemon Law, the engine blew up.

I was still stuck with $500 payments. That’s in addition to $200-ish/month for medical debt from passing out in public.

Add in rent, utilities, gas or bus fare, phone bill, and food and you have a recipe for QUICK debt.

The issue for a lot of people isn’t impulse control, it’s a lack of income altogether paired with mandatory payments you can’t escape. I’m fortunate to have resources to stay afloat but add in student loan debt, or any health or dental care, and you’re quickly drowning.

For my friends, it was amenities for their homes, electronics, etc. I have a friend who has a $200 toaster oven that she rarely uses, but she has it!

Another example would be smart bulbs. I had fit my entire apartment with smart bulbs (the color ones, rather expensive). My tech enthusiast friend who makes half what I do tried to do the same thing, and that screwed him for about a year.

I bought an apartment. I'm living like a poor.

Your doing better than buying a house. No repairs in a damn condo.

Well the monthly HOA fee kinda diminishes that saving.

Rent that out! Hoa’s are tax deductible then.

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Then don't buy a car. I've never owned a car in my life and my bank account has been in the 5 figures for years now.

could be a lot of things and probably many compound on one another. vacations, weddings, bachelor party, buying the whole bar a round

On the flip side of this. Don't avoid loans and credit card either. You need to find a nice balance there. I'm 29 with garbage credit because I have never used credit. I have no debt but I also can't buy some nice things now that I can afford it.

If you treat a credit card like a debit card you'll build credit and not add debt. Pay it off in full every month.

Yep and some cards have awards points you can collect. Costs me about $60 in card fees per year but I make $200 in cash back or vouchers.

There are free cash back cards. Check out /r/churning for recommendations.

r/churning really isn't about "free cashback" cards, they're more into recycling cards for travel points.

I agree. I was at 740 credit. Now im 610.

Better than 609 though!

I learned this the hard way when I financed a car for the first time last November. With a good credit score I thought I was good to go. But I had only 8 months worth of credit history. So despite having a good score I was getting abysmal interest rates back because I was a first time buyer.

My parents were very smart with this. Made me get a car loan for my first car, $2K. They paid it off but when I went to buy another when I was in college it was easy to buy.

If you ever have kids (and can afford the ding in credit from cosigning), do this for them. They'll thank you later.

I've been using a credit card to pay for regular bills for the past like...8 years or so. Groceries, phone, internet, utilities, etc all go on the card and are immediately paid off (and I get a couple hundred a year in cash back).

My credit was good enough that I got a 1%, 0 down, 3 year loan on a used car from the dealership, while I was unemployed.

Also, low interest loans (although those are going to be getting rarer these days) are just useful things. I had enough cash to pay for the car all at once, but I will be able to make more money investing/saving that money than I will pay in interest.

Even if I didn't, the piece of mind knowing I have that cash floating around in case my furnace breaks down next week (instead of putting it on a credit card or something) is worth the 170$ over 3 years I'm spending in interest.

Why are Americans so in love with their credit scores? If you can afford it you dont need credit. If you have a big enough deposit for a home then they will bite your arm off to give you a mortgage. Credit cards,loan interest etc is just you giving money time away that you have earned for free.

The better your credit score the cheaper your rate you get. Having low or no credit will cost you tens of thousands of dollars over a 20yr loan.

A mortgage is a loan. You need a good credit score to get that loan at a reasonable interest rate. No credit means no one will loan you anything. Bad credit means you will pay a lot in interest

If you have no credit history and are getting a credit card for the first time, you usually start with a rating of ~666. Not good, but certainly not "garbage". They put you right in the middle there when you're brand new to the credit system.

Shouldn't you stay in the middle then? (I don't know much about credit scores since it's not a thing where I live.)

I find this silly, like, I've never been in debt my entire life, I'm 26 and I have saved for everything so I could buy it outright, and because of that fact, I have no credit and I can't get a decent line of credit anywhere because I have no history of borrowing money. Like, it makes sense from a financial institution standpoint, but it seems silly that because I've been careful not to buy things with money I don't have, that means I am a poor candidate to lend money to.

That's exactly my situation. Now I want to get my wife a nice car but I will have to pay an arm and a leg for interest because I have been "smart" with my money my whole life

Or just live in a normal country were you aren't forced to live on the edge many fall off (credit cards) just so you aren't skinned alive when you take a big loan for something like a house or new car. It's sickeningly disgusting that you're obligated to have debt, are penalized(higher rates) if you don't. A lot of people can't budget well enough or just don't know any better, as exemplified by this thread, and it's really easy to make mistakes you pay dearly for later on.

Source: live in France, there is no such thing as a credit score, but the central bank keeps track and when you demand a loan from a bank, they'll check if you don't already have loaned out more than you can pay. I don't have anything but a debit card with a bit of overdraft (i can go to -500 eur on my main bank account). No debt at all.

I had a guy at work tell me that he’s shopping for houses, has no credit, wasn’t interested in getting a post-paid phone, didn’t want a credit card, didn’t HAVE a credit card, and after three minutes of talking, found out his credit is shit and he’s around the same age as you.

It’s amazing how many people think that avoiding credit means that you’re a trustworthy consumer and to a big bank all that means is they don’t know you and don’t know if you’ll pay them.

In many countries it actually works like that, though, so it's not like the idea is completely absurd.
To me, the American system sounds completely bonkers.

Like, holy shit. I was kind of freaking out, I actually do have a credit card and I pile up a bunch of shit on it sure (which gets paid off in full every month) but never did I assume I needed something as absurd as a fucking credit score - which sounds like the most deviant control mechanism that shouldn't be legal at all - to buy a house. Turns out it's just a US thing.

I get my salary on your accounts, I deposit my savings with you, you can calculate how much I contribute socially - fuck you. There should be no need for credit products to give me a loan. In our system if they give me a shitty below market rate I'll just pack up my money and products to another bank, thank fuck.

Credit scores aren’t JUST a US thing.

I’d advise you to look into China’s social credit score. They’ve moved almost entirely to digital transactions and use information from various sources, not just consumer transactions, to associate you with a “good or bad” number.

If your number is too low, you literally can’t buy things. You can’t ride the bus. You can’t use basic services because, if your number is low, the idea is that you’re a bad person that should be punished.

The American system is wacky but at least it’s only our financial decisions being judged and not your entire life.

I’ll add to this. Everything you said is true. However there are two sides to every coin. Manageable debt is a good thing, and it will come in handy when it comes to buying a home or a car. A credit card or making payments on a loan can seriously bolster your credit score over time and shouldn’t be viewed as a bad thing on its face.

However as others have noted, just because you can make minimum payments doesn’t necessarily mean you can afford it either. Gotta find that sweet spot

Manageable debt is a good thing, and it will come in handy when it comes to buying a home or a car.

This is true, but it's hard for some people to understand what "manageable" debt is. It's not a loan on an F-150 at 23. It's not a credit card balance that you're slowly paying down.

You can (and should) build credit without paying a dime in interest. A couple of credit cards that you pay off the balance every month. Maybe if the numbers work out buy a car that the manufacturer offers 0% APR financing on.

"$8,000 to spend at 0% interest for a whole year?!"

[Swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe...]

- Me in my 20s.

Fortunately, I bounced back and now have excellent credit.

I'm lucky as well, bit off more than I could chew but somehow figured out how to manage it. Its alot to learn tho, how to do credit right. They should teach it in high school like they do others. Like why is that not part of the coriculim?

To add: never buy the most expensive house the bank says you can afford. Because then you're strapped with massive payments and no money to enjoy your life. My dad chose a smaller house then he could have gotten, and gave us the ability to take vacations to see family, ski, etc. it's the best decision he's ever made, because so many of my best memories are on vacation.

Story of my life. My roommates dad was a Turkish billionaire. Spending my tuition like twice a day.

Damn, why did he need a roommate?

He never had a solid place, but he air-bnb’d a new one every couple weeks. Just happened to move in with me after getting tired of that I guess, which I understand.

I agree Becuase I’m on the same boat. I am on my early 30s and paying off a 30,000 cc debt. However, I am paying it it off nicely, will be done paying it off in one year and that will be that. When I think about about my 20s I had so much fun and would not had been been able to do any of that were it not for those cc. I traveled, ate, drank, stayed up, cultivated friends, met boyfriends,build a life...... sure I’m paying for it now, but I WOULD NOT DO any of it now. Take renting out a house and drinking until the wee hours of the night: that was expensive and I put it on my cc for a couple of birthdays. I loved it and cherish that time. Now that I have the money to actually pay for it without a credit card, I would NOT do it, because I’m too tired all the time, my friends can’t make it becuase they have kids, we can’t agree on a time, yadayadayada. I’m glad I did it when I could and I paid for it with a credit card.

Yea some people it doesnt bug them like it did me.

I got uptight as i got older so now im annoyed at myself. Id have a extra $800 a month without that debt.

Me too! I take it like that was a loan to myself. I considering I was cooler back then, I fell it was an investment. I’d rather have spent money when I was young and able to enjoy myself ya know?

Yea thats true.

This was me to a T. I see all these people bragging about penny pinching and their huge savings account but you know I’m rich with memories. I had so much fun going to concerts and trips just having a great time. I’m 31 now with 2 kids and have no time for those fun friend filled nights. If I could do it all over again I would’ve done more. We have one life to live why live it when Your old and retired.

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Are you going to finish school? Are you taking out loans at a 2 year (community college) or a 4 year (university)? How MUCH are you taking out? Are they subsidized or unsubbed?

Frankly, the answer is up to you. As someone who is about to pay off 4K in loans for schooling I don’t plan on finishing, I would say to exhaust your resources before you do.

Loans are for SCHOOL. They are not for food, video games, flat tires, rent, or any of the other things you’re going to justify using it for. You CAN use it for anything if you need to but try to keep any loans to a minimum. If you can’t afford to live AND go to school without loans, be VERY careful as living off your loans will get extremely expensive quickly.

If you can, work for a year and save your money. Apply for grants (pell grant is god send) and scholarships. Take advantage of college discounts on streaming services, computer purchases, and food services.

Going to school with no aim is a bad idea. Known at least kinda what you want, if you're gonna get loans for it.

If you're lucky enough to have had a parent in the military you probably can get school for freeish. Then you can go with less direction. But if youre gonna be 5 digits in deep you gotta know how youre gonna tackle it.

In my opinion, the only thing worth taking a loan for is your education, or a house. Everything else is likely a waste of money.

Not if your going to pay them off. You can make a payment plan with them as well.

If you get tax return, id take half your tax return for yourself and pay loans or credit with other half.

/r/personalfinance is a great sub for those wanting to better manage their money

Adding on to it.

If you're jobless, work retail, or work a entry level job that doesn't require a degree, almost all the damage you do via credit cards is recoverable. Most people make mistakes early on before their credit limits get really crazy so a few weeks of work or a bailout from friends and family will get you over the hump.

NO ONE should ever take a pay day loan. The interest rates are utterly insane. That will trap you in a debt cycle.

If you do graduate and make these mistakes with mid to high credit limits (>$10,000) that's when you can really get hurt. By hurt I mean two things. Default on your credit and there is a higher probability a bank will sue rather then sell your debt. Also, the time and money it takes to repay the debt is no longer a joke.

And on the other side of that coin, don’t be afraid to establish your credit either. You will have trouble getting a loan for a car or house until you do. Just be smart about it.

I bought a new car back when I was still healthy and could afford the payments. Now I have a horrible lifelong chronic illness and 20k of medical debt...with another $60,000 surgery on Friday. Boy if I had known this was to be my future...

Thats rough. I only have this last chunk of debt because my job place told me id win dispute. Obviously i didnt but life learned.

Filing bankruptcy at 26 years old... Seriously, dont fucking do this.

Yea i wish i can restart but you cant. So you must learn.

Wish I had done it at 26 instead of 33, instead I spent years fighting an unwinnable fight praying for a magic bullet and missed out on a lot of really fucking great opportunities. Lessons learned though and hopefully we both come out the other side much wiser for it.

Couldn't agree more. I remember thinking that I would pay it off later, no worries. Just a minimum payment here and there. Unfortunately, I didn't realize how interest works. I have now amped my student loan payments up to 1k a month to reduce the interest amount alone.

Same! I'll be paid off in June thank God

I'm at that point where I spent more money than I have. I'm like 4k in debt split across 4 credit cards (2 actual credit cards the other 2 are store credit cards) and while I know a lot of people are worse, I'm stressing the fuck out lol. My credit score went from high 700s to high 400s :/. Any tips? (besides buying less lol, I'm currently doing that)

You have too much revolving credit. Here are some links that should help you. Im not free yet but i paid off $20k so far.

https://bettermoneyhabits.bankofamerica.com/en/debt/how-to-pay-off-credit-card-debt-fast

https://www.magnifymoney.com/blog/balance-transfer/the-fastest-way-to-pay-off-10000-in-credit-card-debt/

How'd you solve the issue about hanging out with people who make a lot more. What compromises did you make/what's the overall solution you found in solving that issue?

I just flat out said how much i can afford to eat that night or do that weekend. If they didnt like it or made a big deal i would respond with thats my budget.

I mean these people can afford $40-100 dinners a night and whatever when they want. They expect you to be able to but not everyone is like that. If im hanging with people who make less or dont want to spend alot of money i compromise.

In the end, you need to worry about yourself and your family.

Not the same person, but I'm in a similar situation. They all graduated and got decent jobs. I drank my way into academic probation and eventually dropped out. Now I do shitty labor for shitty pay. I've had the conversation with a couple of them when it comes to bachelor parties and shit. I just told them that I understand that I can't afford to do everything that they want to and to not feel bad for doing stuff without me. After all, it's my fault that I'm in this mess and not theirs.

Just got my first credit card today. Wish me luck.

Dont go over 33% even though its hard to not go over.

My line of credit is like 1k and I keep that shit below 50 bucks

Oh that note as well, don't neglect your credit. You can't build it up overnight, and you sure as hell don't want to wait until you need good credit to start worrying about it

On the flip side not utilizing credit at all is what messed me up. I'm going to be 26 and couldn't buy a car two years ago after embarrassingly being told I needed a cosigner.

Hopefully you will see this and it hasn't been commented before me...

Please check out /r/personalfinance They are really a great bunch

This. Absolutely this. This is the mistake I made that I am still not completely out of (15 years later) it will always seem like "no big deal ill handle it" but it's too easy to fall into an interest loop where you never actually get ahead of your debt. It has stopped me from truly doing the things I want in life. Don't rely on that ship coming in someday. Assume it may not come and then celebrate if it does. Don't sacrifice your financial freedom on a hope.

And on that topic, even if you don’t get into debt, spending all your income and not saving is equally is bad.

I really don’t think if it as equally as bad. It’s not ideal but I think it’s unfair to give people that impression.

This so much. It's one of the most common ones that people do and it fucks everyone over in the long run... Live within your means, if you want something but it's not urgent save for it and get it later.

2-3 years isn't that bad. Could be way worse

It was 5 yrs. I owed $46k.

Im halfway there. I got one major debt left.

Nice job! not easy but soon the shakles will feel so much lighter. Many people end up with multiple hundred thousand dollar debts just from college, and a job that doesn't really pay enough to pay it off easily. It's getting worse too, rates are getting higher especially for credit cards and people trying to pay that last bit to graduate. Plenty of other "frivolous" things can add up to enormous debt too.

That's why you pay for college on credit cards and the declare bankruptcy before entering the workforce? /s

I fear I might be going down this path so I’m just going to spend most of my check on clearing my credit cards and saving instead

It is worth not going down, for sure. I was at a point where all of my money each month was going to CC debt and student loans with little to nothing free in the bank at the end of the month. I had to declare bankruptcy to get out, which just happened recently. I wasted so much and lost a ton of great opportunities because of my debt and I can only blame my own stupidity. While my wasted opportunity cost may be higher than some, you don't want to be stuck not being able to invest or having to sell out early because of carrying around stupid amounts of worthless debt.

Thanks, needed to see this. I have loans but student loans I need to enter school. This reminded me to take out a certain amount from paychecks when I get a job this summer to pay off my loans.

If you can afford this then this is the right way to go.

Keep it up! I got my student loans paid off last year and it feels great. Literally felt like a weight off my chest

I bet! Way to fo!

It sounds like you've got a plan and are working to complete it. Good job! Think of how you'll proud you'll be when you're debt-free and living within your means! The things you're able to treat yourself with will be that much sweeter. Good luck!

Thank you!!!

I wish i could fast forward but my parents are aging and so is my child.

It's so tough when you know what the next step is but you're held back by the realities of your situation. The important thing is that you've got the plan! If you work toward it even in small ways, you are sure to be rewarded.

For real. It catches up fast, and I realized it this past Christmas. Went a little impulse crazy and instead of using my bonus to pay off student loans (or save, or even get something nice) I had to use it to pay off my credit card.

Thankfully I had that "safety net" with the large bonus, most don't have that. Now I barely buy a beer without thinking of the social budget I have left over for the month.

15 years to go with my dept

Dang! Really?

Whhat about debt consolidation?

Nah, its under control. I'm screwed after 15 if its not paid..

Oh well thats good then.

Man I just want to help you pay some debt off

It happens. I appreciate the thought. I really do.

Well it seems like life kind of just fucks me, yes I was financially retarded for maxing out my cards but I had a good job and could afford the payments, and then I lost my job I owed like $2,000 which isn’t that bad and it’s all been written off which I’m not sure what that means for my credit.

That happened to me with the big debt. Smh

Hey I gotta say as someone who just got out of their twenties in the exact same current circumstances, cheers pal. We're doing it!

I'll give a counter. Not getting any credit. My parents raised me to be fiscally responsible. That means I paid all my bills on time, and never spent money I didn't have. That also means once I finished college, got a good paying career, and saved a sizable down payment, no one would give me a mortgage. I had to fucking get a pre-paid credit card and work with that for a year before I could get a real credit card, and use that for a year before I could buy a house.

This reminds me of my college loan. Luckily I’m taking that debt to my grave

Do you own a home by chance?

Not yet i want to but must get bills down.

The bank offered me a credit card my freshman year of college. I said "I'll think about it" and left without signing for one. Best decision of my life. I would be in an aggressive amount of debt because of my spending habits. I don't have a lot of money in the first place, but at least I only spend the money that I have.

This, so much this, I’m earning damn good right now but I’m about 40 in the hole. If I hadn’t had been a piece of shit a few years back all of this cash would be mine to play with.

Bingo. Had friend who would get credit cards and then go traveling overseas and would get a credit card and rack up 10 grand in debt. They'd get back home would be 21 years old with a massive debt hanging over them which they'd then try and pay off with a part time job.

I'm horribly terrified of ruining my credit and going in to debt. I'm extremely careful that I'm able to pay off my credit card when I use itm

God damn it’s good once you get out of debt. I got debt free at 27 and it was the best feeling in the world

Good luck man!

This what I came here to say. A few years to go paying off debts run up years ago.

I literally got a card from every store I walked into from like ages 19-22 and immediately maxed it out. I had between 15-20 cards. Paying 25-40$ a piece. It was nasty. I didn't get out of that until almost 30

Took me 20 years to fix that.

Oh, you mean students loans. I did that too. Uhhhhhhjjjggggggg why why why was I pushed into that

On the odd chance no one said it: good luck on the pay off plan. And a pre- congratulations for when you make it!

Okay, I work in a bank so I'm going to platter this up literally wherever I can:

Bankers are not your friends. Tellers are not your friends. The bank is not your friend. We are all here to 1. Make money for ourselves and 2. Make money for the company. Most of us also have ethical standards and human decency and other things we care about but you aren't paying us so you can't and shouldn't trust us to give you advice. A banker will and should tell you what you're doing but they won't ever tell you it's a a good idea to do or not do something. It's not that we want you to do something stupid and get shafted, it's that we don't know your situation, and if there's something we don't know, don't consider, or you don't tell us, then we're liable for destroying someone's life.

Especially with credit cards. I will tell you the terms of the agreement, but if you don't know that you shouldn't max out your limit and make minimum payments, then that's your mistake for going into a contract without knowing what it was.

Tl;Dr: Banks are ethical, but they are not there to make you money first. Educate yourself so that you don't fuck yourself.

I knew this was bad, but had to move for a job. Didn't have money saved up so expenses built up to about 7k, (shipping a car, deposit on a place, furniture, first couple months rent and groceries before first check etc.) I must have paid 500-600 dollars in interest already, 5 months in. I paid off 4k so far, while still paying current bills.

I did some research and i think this was a smart move, I did a balance transfer to a new card for 3% of the amount transferred. No interest for 15 months, so I can pay it off slowly without getting wrecked by interest along the way. No annual fee so once I pay it off I can just leave the balance at 0 or cancel it.

So unless I did something financially stupid, there are some ways to get less f'd by this situation.

Having Children by the wrong person.

Tip: If someone has multiple children with different exes and do not have any sort of custody of any of them due to them being taken away, or have multiple kids that they refuse to spend any time with despite having a custody agreement in place, they're probably not going to magically change into an amazing parent for the baby that you want to have with them. I have acquaintances who do not seem to be able to grasp this concept. "Well yeah, he doesn't spend time with his 5 kids or pay child support, all of his exes are psycho bitches! He's excited to start over with me and our baby and be a family again!" And then, 8 months later and 7 months pregnant, "This asshole just left me for a 22 year old that he got pregnant and left the state so the courts can't find him and charge him child support! I never thought he'd do this to me!"

Yes, there's always that one exception of someone who was unfairly treated by the courts or has truly changed and is now a better person. But in general, just don't do it.

This reminds me of when I first joined the Navy. I was 26 (college dropout), while most people join at 18 or 19 (right out of high school), so I had at least a little perspective. People were told all the time, starting in boot camp, that people they had only just met would try to marry them. Some people want the health care, some want an income from a spouse who's away for months at a time, and some know that the Navy will enforce alimony/child support (possibly for a 6 month baby). All of them will try to talk you into signing a power of attorney.

So what do a bunch of them do? Go out and date a stripper for 2 weeks, then propose. "Oh no, we love each other. I know all those stories, but we're different.". 6 months later: nope, turns out they're exactly the same.

See also: financing a V6 Mustang at usirous interest rates talking $1150/month on $1200 take-home. "That's $50/month for gas; I'm golden!"

Lol. I tried enlisting in air Force. Friend got a mustang for similar rates.

Lol yep. Joined when I was 25 and saw the same damn thing. I’ve never been great with money, & I’ve never had great luck with women (the Navy has gotten in the way of a few of the good ones what with me moving away all the time), but I never understood how my fellow junior sailors found themselves in these situations. Even some of the E-4’s at my shore command, I’m like “Dude... HOW?! You’ve been in at least 5 years now, how are you still putting yourself in these positions??” Can’t wait to go to my next command and do the LPO thing so suddenly their dumb decisions are magically my problem... ugh.

I keep seeing this pop up on Reddit. Last time, someone posted about how their CO filled in some free time with classes/lessons on the basics of budgeting, cooking and general cleanliness and 90% of those problems ~magically~ went away.

That would be great but I guarantee nobody in Engineering Department would have time to attend. Hell on my first ship, half the guys in propulsion didn’t even go to Command Indoc.

Yeah, I was in reactor, so I know. I remember once I hesitated to do...something because you were supposed to have some minor ships qual I had never done. Then they looked it up and it turned out I had nearly every ships qual. Earned on the same day. Which happened to be the day my friend left for shore duty.

News to me.

And the operations guys say that about operations, and the combat guys say that about the radar room, and the gunner's mates say that about weapons department.

The only ones who should really claim that are the Corpsmen who then get to deal with not only how busy the are, but how busier they are because all the rest of the ship is now stressed out from too much work, plus got STDs, plus have mental health issues from all the stress, then come to medical to try to sort it all out.

Desperation probably. Lonely/desperate people grasp at whatever they can get.

In the Air Force you have kids in tech school (technical job specific training that happens after boot camp) for 6 months or less who marry their tech school boyfriend/girlfriend after barely knowing them. Then a couple years down the road they're getting their divorce and cracking jokes about how the first marriage is always the "practice marriage" and brushing off their shitty life decisions.

Tech schol boyfriend/girlfriend is also interchangable with high school sweet heart they went and married when they were on leave between tech school and their first duty station.

Love lift us up where we bee-loo-o-ong!

All I've learned about these military stories is that if I ever want to buy a car, I'm taking my mom with me so I don't end up looking stupid and broke.

what I'm wondering is...why do they always get such shitty rates? are they just not shopping around at all? they just take the first rate the dealer offers them?

I think I got 3% for my last car. I had already talked to my bank and seen what rate they would give me. the dealership had some promotion through the manufacturer and beat it.

I mean I get it that some people only have shit rates if they've had past issues and don't have a steady income, but the military is like the opposite of that, considering the pressure they'll get to keep up on payments from inside

It is because they put a dealership right outside of training bases and these young kids with no life experience and a brand new paycheck think they can go buy a sweet car for the first time in their lives. It is entirely predatory, and should be illegal, in my opinion.

I was lucky enough to have my wits about me. I bought a shitty Subaru Forester after tech school while I was on leave. I drove that thing all the way out to Minot, North Dakota, and it lasted me forever. It had 350k miles on it when I finally gave it the Old Yeller treatment. The car cost me about 4 grand total, and I paid it off two years early.

I also have a degree with no student loan debt at all. The military can be an extremely wonderful tool for people to build highly lucrative and successful lives. You just have to not be stupid.

Again, they're mostly just out of high school. Teenagers.

Now I won't say all teenagers are stupid. Some are quite smart. But I will say they all do stupid things (source: was teenager). Combine that with not understanding how bills work, how expensive it is to pay for basic stuff, etc. and a salesman who blows smoke up their ass about a "special rate" for their service, and, well...there you go.

I had a whole thing I went through with new arrivals who wanted a car that was basically just me waving my hands and repeating "Real dealership! Used Civic!" over and over.

If they're right out of high school inlistees they will have zero credit history. And their military job, while stable, still isn't high paying.

Lots of reasons. They don't save their money "at all" so no real downpayment. They don't have much, bad, or young credit. They don't shop around. They go in by themselves and ignore the constant don't buy the damn Mustang speech that you get from the very beginning in Basics. They think they know it all. So, while they're thinking with emotions the dealer is thinking about his bonus. This kid has absolutely no leverage and any bank, dealership, etc that will lend is going to do so at a premium. Why not, as far they're concerned he/she can make "the payments" so "obviously" they can afford the car right?

Trust me when I say they have been warned over and over and over and over again. So, it's not due to ignorance unless you want go the wilfully ignorant route. It's pretty sad. Very easy to blow money when you've never really made that much before and have low expenses. You get a false sense of inflated compensation.

Anywho, to be fair, most 18-19 year olds aren't going to be able to get 2-3% rates as they don't have the credit for it. You had to develop the credit yourself in order to get those rates. If you had poor or fair credit your rates would high. The dealerships around bases are also predatory so there's that too. Regardless, many things go into the dreaded Mustang decision.

Tag hunters. It's real. I had the same experience you did (25 when i went in, left college). I wish I could have done more to save some of the E1's i knew from going down that road. It is especially stark overseas in Japan or Korea with the locals outside of base. I have heard of wives leaving their husbands the day after they qualified for lifetime benefits (about 10 years or so?). Easy way to make your military time and life a lot worse than it needs to be.

I used to see this all the time when i was in the USMC, I would feel like Elon Musk (or insert your genius) when i was on active duty. I was surrounded by the dumbest people ive ever met, 18/19 year olds with brand new 1. lifted trucks (retarded) 2. sports cars

19 year old kid, married, with a C6 ZO6 corvette, guy come on.

Im 30 now, My last tour was in 2015 Marines head would explode when they would ask me about my wife, im like what wife? Im way to smart to get married pal, they couldnt fathom being 28/29/30 without a master, i mean wife. So funny to me,

or you get the "im buying a car for my wife" to i reply why cant she buy her own car? "oh she doesnt work"

"how does it feel supporting a useless person"?

Literally the dumbest people ive ever met, good ol marine corps

Here’s something that really grinds my gears. When people complain about paying child support. You had sex with someone who had no career plans, no education, and maybe she already has one kid and no job, and what did you expect to happen from that? I don’t want to see a bunch of misogyny about child support when he stuck his dick in a dead end. There’s also plenty of women who fuck guys who have five kids already, don’t work on the table so they don’t need have to pay for their existing kids, and then act surprised when he leaves them and never pays a dime of child support

I didn't mean to imply child support was wrong; that's why I put in the part about a 6 month baby. You'd be surprised how many guys don't balk when their girlfriend wants them to put their name on a birth certificate for a child they know isn't theirs. Child support and alimony aren't problems in and of themselves; they serve important purposes. The emotional manipulation of that naive is the problem.

A lot of new sailors (and soldiers, Marines, etc. I'm sure) just come from backgrounds where most people they know are married and having babies by 18 or 19. They thought I was the weird one for getting married in my 30s to a girl I'd dated for 2 years, lived with for 1, and had been friends with for almost a decade before that.

Nah, you didn’t imply that, I was just thinking about the types that you are describing here and went with it. Your last paragraph is a little scary, and also sad. I was almost a 19 year old bride to one of these guys, I could have been right there too. I credit college for saving me. College is so much more fun than having a couple kids and a bad marriage that was rushed into for measly government benefits. You were the smart one!

I agree with you, single mothers are off the table. Look else where, its so easy.

Not all single mothers.

I was a single parent for 8yrs. By time i got with my partner now I had a job, my own house and still just 1 child. I could understand running a mile if i had a few to different fathers and I didnt work. But I was fully supporting myself and I still do.

You are one of the small percentages, cheers

I get how single mums get a bad name. But not all of us are bad :)

Its not your fault like 95% of the time, Im not trying to sound like some asshole male, it actually pissed me off when i hear dudes knocking up some fling or one night stand, and then leaving the girl.

  1. get an ABORTION!
  2. try to work things out, you made the decision to hook up, time to man up and take care of your family.

Theres so much more damage being done by this single mom raising kids than just hurting the woman.

As a bisexual and polyamorous person, I just don’t date people with kids period. I don’t want to be replacement mommy, don’t want to be free babysitting, and I don’t want to have that much influence in the life of a child. Unlike my step parents, I care about the humanity of others and I understand that the child and the child’s needs always come first before the parent’s partner’s needs. That’s just how it goes when you date a parent. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night if I demanded an essentially childfree relationship with a parent.

Some people I’m sure can have great relationships with parents, but I think we need a stronger cultural norm to take step parenthood seriously. Also a stronger cultural education about child support and welfare and how that works. If you care about your life, you have to talk to your sex partners about: finances, abortion, career plans, and STIs/sexual history. Nothing makes me hornier than responsibility!!!! You don’t talk about these things, I don’t want to hear complaining and blame shifting about how you have to pay for a kid you didn’t want. (Not you, you people in general) you people! I think if we had a stronger cultural norm to think about these things before sex, and to talk about these things before sex, maybe we would have less unwanted pregnancies and poverty traps

Totally agree, Ive met people were they thinks its funny having a kid. Always blows my mind.

At least you are learning from someone else's mistakes, rather than your own. I just always wonder why people never see themselves in certain situations. Do they think they're smarter or what?

I knew from a very young age marriage and kids is a MASSIVE risk, you are putting your life into the hands of an emotional creature who will drop you in a second for chad. Also Women and kids are very expensive, but the average joe smoe apparently doesnt care about money.

I understand most young marines get married because they want to live out in town and out of the barracks to get away from the bullshit, the room inspections, field days, formations etc I GET it and the extra couple hundred of bucks you get a month for being married however that does not out weigh the risk and cost of marriage.

you are putting your life into the hands of an emotional creature who will drop you in a second for chad. Also Women and kids are very expensive,

Of course. Or alternatively, if you are a smart person, you could put your life in the hands of a mature, competent woman who loves you and has a job. So many people happily live that double income no kids life, you just have to find the right person. Two incomes, lower shared expenses. Just because you are surrounded by dipshits who don't understand proper mate selection doesn't mean that there aren't good reasons to get married.

There are zero incentives for a male to get married in the USA. However i do agree with you/(r) find the correct partner.

You sound very sensible. Let me congratulate you for being able to see the big picture. So few people do. I said elsewhere that people should know their spouses well before getting married at least a couple of years. Got downvoted, but whatevs. Some people have to learn the hard way.

BTW, my son is thinking about the marines. I hope he meets someone like you to show him the ropes.

My father is a marine; he was the one who talked me out of joining the corps. If your son wants to be a marine just to prove he is tough, tell him to go special forces. He'll be treated better and won't be considered an expendable bag of meat. I never ended up joining the military, but this is the advice my father passed onto me me from his time serving.

He is a college graduate and wants to do officer training school. He was in AFROTC for two years, but his grades weren't great and he didn't get the go ahead for the summer program. He's a little indecisive right now, but still has a few years to figure it out.

Whatever decision he makes, you should support him. I did not mean to say that going into the Marines is a poor choice, rather that there are better ones. However, if he wants to be a Marine, than that may the best for him as it would make him happy. It is good he is set to become an officer though. I wish the both of you the best!

Thank you,

There are two things i want to say,

  1. Im Marine Corps or nothing

however, the wiser/older me

  1. Join the Air Force ha

Seriously if he wants to join the USMC, go do it, do 4 or 6 years and pause and reflect, do it while he is young, get it out of his system so he doesnt have any regrets when he is 34 or older.

He will learn a lot and have great stories to tell for many years, some of my best friends are all Marines I served with.

That's absolutely what I'd like to happen for him. He's currently in a decent job with not a huge potential for moving up. He could probably make more money elsewhere, but he lacks a bit of confidence and discipline. It's also been a dream of his for a long time.

It was a dream for me since I was young, tell him to go after it, make sure he gets in writing the MOS (job) he wants before signing up.

Well, atleast our troops can afford sports cars and raised trucks..

Paying high interest on a depreciating "investment"

I loved my time in the USMC, I learned a lot and dont regret it, its just funny who joins and who you are surrounded by.

Yup. Buy guns instead if you're getting toys with your extra income instead of investing. They don't depreciate like that challenger or camaro

I like guns, I also like your challenger and camaro comment, thats perfect.

Funny you mentioned those cars, when i was in, a female marine i knew financed a new challenger v6 or was it charger? Maybe it was charger, that she then traded in for a SS Camaro. Im like how are you going to pay for this when you get out?

I never understood the idea of not working. I don't care if you have a "spouse" that is paying the bills. If you put someone that has drive and motivation in that situation they could be starting their own business, saving a lot of money even from low paying job, and doing something other than just coasting. I never want to enable that lifestyle for anyone (unless it's myself from business that runs itself, or something like that)

If you have multiple young children and don't have the training/education for a high-paying career, a low-paying full time job might not even cover daycare. It might actually make more financial sense to stay at home or work part-time.

My wife has a journalism degree and 15 years industry experience. She's been in her current job for about 5 years and her salary just about covers childcare for our two kids. That shit is expensive.

Oh yes. We own a modest home in a suburb in Wisconsin, and our daycare is more expensive than our mortgage. For reference, house is 80's built split level, over 1,700 square feet, 2-car garage, on about a quarter acre. Yeah, it's that expensive.

I understand what you are saying. I was picturing young marines/sailors/grunts marrying strippers for financial gain. Then the stripper laying around doing nothing while the solider is away at war.

Children always change the equation.

So many of my soldiers did this stupid shit. Every deployment I've gone one there is at least one.

They really should update the UMCJ to allow for a persons chain of command to stop or nullify a marriage.

Like, just let the dudes First Sergeant come down on him and say he cannot get married until the two of them have known each other for X amount of time or whatnot.

I've been hearing more and more about various people and especially car dealerships taking advantage of young soldiers. Maybe we could try supporting the troops by helping them not come home to piles of debt?

My GF's dad has had 5 kids with 4 women. Only married one. That's not even counting the abortions. What makes people think "He won't do that to me, certainly!"

This is the overall most overlook red flag in any teen/early 20s girls. I know a bunch of them too, thinking their violent boyfriend could magically change after they had kids. That the dropout, non working guy would actually pay their child support.

Luckily, some people learn/understand more as they grow up, it’s sad the “damage” is already done.

My younger dropout brother totally turned his life around when he found out he was going to be a dad. Got off drugs, got a job, stopped binge drinking and the other day he told his friend he couldn't take the baby to visit cos they smoke inside. I was seriously so worried when I found out he was gonna be a dad but now I'm super proud of him.

This is one of the (also) many good examples. Happy to hear your brother understood the grave ness of having a baby. To many, especially dads, don’t take this seriously. As I’m to soon have two kids, I’m glad to hear the good stories as well :)

Your family is really lucky that your brother turned himself around 180 for his baby. The baby is lucky. Good to hear the good story. There are many, many stories that are not so good.

I really don’t understand how hard this is to grasp

I mean I understand teenagers not understanding that they won’t change the guy who has cheated on every girlfriend. But I don’t understand how a thinking adult says, “hmm, you haven’t been there for any of your other children. Court ordered child support for your 5 kids is probably a lot. You’re the one. I’ll turn you around!”

Thing is some people get to age 16 in their brain and it just kind of stalls there for a while. Especially when they have stalled in life and got themselves into a place where they are so deep in with all the kids and crappy exes

it's a weird inverted ego issue. you're taking a loser and hoping that you're special enough for him to change and stop being a loser. if he does, it's because your love is actually worth something and can change the world. everything you believed about your self worth and what you have to offer is proven wrong! all the better if he has a bunch of ''psycho'' exes.. more people to prove yourself better than! think of THAT ego payoff!

if he doesn't well.. part of you always knew that he probably wouldn't, and that a loser is all you deserve. what's more, you only sink deeper into the low self esteem hole because great, yet another loser who treats you like shit and won't change. what you believed about yourself was not only right, but there's just more and more evidence proving that you're not good enough with each failed charity case.

This is exactly it. Healthy women don't do this to themselves, it's only women who already have issues with their self worth. That need to be "special".

Asking "why do some women do this?" is like asking why some people develop alcoholism or start hardcore drugs. It's just another form of self harm and escapism.

yes, that's totally right

It sucks to be the first girl unfortunate enough to get on that doomed train. My cousin is one such guy. He's got 4 kids, 4 women, and another on the way by yet another woman.

His first girlfriend was/is this super soft spoken, sweet, smart, driven girl who gave him a chance when they were both barely out of their teens. He cheated on her while she was pregnant and gave her chlamydia without telling her. The baby was born with it, his eyes were practically glued shut for the first couple of months because of the infection. My cousin cried, said he was sorry, and she, being young, scared, a first time mother and still very much in love, gave him another chance. Wasn't long before he thought it was ok to hit her. Luckily she was strong enough to take the kid and go. No contact.

He and some of our family now act like she's the fucking devil. Like, she's somehow the bad guy for not wanting her son to be around an abusive, unpredictable druggie. He hasn't even tried to file for visitation because he doesn't even care about actually seeing the kid. She tried to let him see the kid a few times, but only with supervision, and he basically said "if i can't see him by myself then I don't want to see him at all", because it's not about the kid, he doesn't give a shit, it's his pride. How dare that bitch keep my son away from me. This is proven enough by the fact that he never sees the other children, even though no one is stopping him. yet he complains on facebook about "bitches who don't let their kids see their dads" and how "he loves his children more than life and would do anything for them" yeah, anything but actually pay some fucking attention to them.

Anyway, the second girl believed the narrative they spun about his ex, it wasn't just him saying it, after all, it was his mum, his sister, everyone. I can see why she would be surprised when he did the same thing to her, other people convinced her he was the good guy in that situation.

But the third girl? she was already with him before his second girlfriend had even given birth! And wouldn't you consider it karma, when the exact same thing happened to her, with the fourth girl? I do. They both fucking deserve to be single mothers as far as I'm concerned.

I have no idea what's going on with this 5th girl, i've been trying to stay out of family drama but apparently he's not on drugs anymore and has a job, so maybe he's actually turned it around this time?

ETA: forgot to add the /s at the end of that last sentance. He's not going to change.

good for you you are not joining in into the family drama. I'm sorry for all those babies that were born into it

I try, but I can't help but hear about it because when my family visit, it's all they talk about - drama. I don't know how they do it, it's so stressful to keep up with it all.

The children are ok. They might have a shitty dad but the rest of our family is pretty involved - babysitting, gifts, other help. Basically they fill in for the role that should be my cousins. I know it's not the same though.

Some people just have awful taste in male/female partners too. Like it's very 'un pc' to say so but they do. Some eventually learn and we hear all about them but there's plenty who don't either.

What's that quote? "When someone shows you who they are, believe them" or something similar.

A young woman from my hometown got with this guy who has children with multiple women. He doesn’t provide for these children and never sees them. Many people told her that it would be a bad idea to settle down with this man and she went off saying, “Everybody needs to stay out of my business, I can make my own decisions and you all don’t know him like I do!”

Flash forward a bit, she is heavily pregnant and dude is nowhere to be found. Next she’s posting on Facebook, “I can be mommy and daddy all by myself! Me and my baby don’t need no man!”

Well, because you wanted to prove everyone wrong, your child is growing up without a father. Congrats.

He’s a violent petty criminal who’s in and out of jail and addicted to pills.

“Yes, this would be the perfect person to have a baby with. And while I’m at work he and his friends can babysit my 12-year-old daughter. Yes, that will be a good idea.”

Mommy-Daughter Delivery Dates!!!

But daughter doesn’t know which guy is the father. Today, on Maury.

sounds scary.

Ah, you met my old coworker. She was dating a guy who has 4 kids by 4 different women. He wants nothing to do with any of them, and ditched out on the mothers when they were a few months along. He hops from state to state every few years when the law catches up to him and he gets hit with child support lawsuits. Coworker told us all of this over the course of her relationship with him. When she got pregnant by him, she was absolutely convinced he was going to change. Spoiler alert, when she was about 6 months along he vanished. She was shocked, but everyone else was kind of like "what did you expect? He has done this same thing with every other woman."

Part of buying a house is having a background search done to see if you have outstanding debts or warrants against you. I have a very common first and last name, so when I bought a house I had to sign off on a list of hits on my name saying none of those people were me.
It was like 50 pages of dudes that owed child support.

Hahaha this is the exact logic my ex wife has. Left me for some dude with multiple kids. Fuck that bitch

Yea, my ex wife just got pregnant from some dude she's only known for 6 months. He has 3 kids already, has been divorced for less than a year (if he is divorced at all), and I have no idea if he gets to see his kids or not.

Her and I have a 6 year old from when I was active duty Air Force, but she cheated on me when our kid was 1.5 years old and then she left me. Now here she is, deepening the shithole she turned her life into.

Not my problem! My boy is happy as can be with me. I hope it works out for her, of course, as the mother of my child, but at the end of the day, it isn't my problem. A huge relief.

Dam sorry to hear that man. I think women who cheat on men who are deployed have a special place in hell. I'm glad mine showed her true colors before we had kids or anything else really serious

My ex tried to reach out when she was having car troubles and I noped the fuck outta that real fast. It's nice to think "wow that really isn't my problem"

Everyone thinks they're the exception.

I have acquaintances who do not seem to be able to grasp this concept. "Well yeah, he doesn't spend time with his 5 kids or pay child support, all of his exes are psycho bitches! He's excited to start over with me and our baby and be a family again!"

VER-FUCKING-BATIM what one of my best friends is going through now! She is baby mamma # 6, all his ex's were cows, they trapped or tricked him into having a kid. He has 0 relationship with at least 4/6 of his kids, won't have anything to do with the mothers or the kids unless they conform/behave they way he wants... and right now she is bawling every day because he's off somewhere unknown and putting her through hell.

The thing is... we're not young... we're nearly 40 and this is the 2nd time she's had a baby daddy like this. I wish she would see that she deserves better. She really is a good person, heart on her sleeve, always giving to others. Pisses me off when people take advantage of that.

Men who "trick" good women into getting together with them are like chameleons. They know how to say what the woman wants to hear. That is all they can do, really, because they have not much to say for themselves, they are spineless, in a way - no foundation, no values, no stamina to commit to anything. So their survival strategy is to appear the way you want them to appear. Suck the person dry, and disappear when all has been sucked out.

My father was previously married and divorced before he met my mother. He had 2 daughters with his Ex and when they separated he moved states away from them. He had no contact with them for 40 years. As a father my kids happiness trumps mine by a factor of 10 or more. I could not imagine why someone would do that. About 10 years ago the husband of one of his daughters found him through my moms Facebook account. Within a week of there first conversation he received a letter from his ex’s attorney requesting back child support. He cashed out his whole 401k and sent her a check. He had been retired for less then a year at that time. I respect the hell out of him for that. I may never know why he left them but as he and my mother have been married for 45 years I can’t believe he didn’t have a halfway decent reason.

I am half way surprised that my mother took a chance on my father. Obviously this was not a string of woman/kids he left in his wake but it still had to be a major red flag.

I hope your acquaintance lands on her feet. She probably has little to no idea of what she is going to do now. If you know many of her friends maybe get together with them and all show support for her. The last thing she needs in this uncertain time in her life is someone saying “I told you so/you should have seen this coming “

Approx how many $ did it cost him?

Similarly, if someone complains about all her/his past boyfriends, it definitely might be worth finding out if she/he is the actual problem.

the courts

As you say, a court can be wrong, but someone who can't catch a break from "the courts" is probably an asshole.

I never thought he'd do this to me!

There it is.

Have you met my sister by chance?

It seems like you judged someone better than you should have with no reason to do so

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Use a condom.

They work. Use a condom.

My wife and I used condoms for 10 years. They worked. No pregnancy scares.

Then we decided to have kids and stopped using condoms. 3 weeks later she was pregnant. Then we started using condoms again, and they worked perfectly. Again.

Use condoms. They work. That statistic about them only being 98% successful? That includes people who put them on 3/4 of the way through, people who put them on the wrong way round, and people who use them with oil-based lubricants (ie idiots). Don't believe the hype. They work.

It has seemed as though male birth control has been just around the corner for years now. I'm excited for a future where men can stop bitching about being coerced into parenthood and only voluntary nondeadbeats have children.

There's actually a 98% effective drug in (Stage III) human trials right now.

I can't remember the name; I saw it on /all a short while ago.

Vasalgel probably?

I believe a man can legally terminate his parental rights in order to not pay towards the raising of his child.

Of course, this also eliminates his visitation rights as he’s no longer legally a parent of said child.

I would like to point out, however, that (unless birth control methods have failed), both parties should be aware that unprotected sex could lead to a child.

Not in the US he can't.

Having children at all before you're ready emotionally, mentally and financially

financially

das a BIG one. Kids are expensive

Not only are they expensive, but they occupy such a large portion of your life that it inhibits you and/or spouse from working on a career compared to your peers.

You end up getting hit by both sides financially.

It's impossible to get a financial foothold if you're only making enough to cover the cost of living.

The money you stash in you twenties and early thirties has huge importance later on.

How much does a average joe stack u think 20-30 ?

So far I'm at -40k.

Edit: I'm 28 for reference.

Do banks grade on curves?

Yeah, they call it interest.

Underrated

Like OPs credit score

Idk what you're asking but if we were to grade my financial stability it would be an D or a D-.

Lol it was a half baked joke.

Implying Your -40k status is the average and we can all get free money based on that idk

I still have no clue what you're talking about. Maybe it's because I'm dumb and that's why I'm in debt. The circle of life continues.

It’s a bad joke is all

I admire your dedication. Keep up the good work.

It’s my one job. I’m no good at it, but I’ll be damned if I let that stop me

I thought that was ~40k and I was going to congratulate you. I've been chipping away at my debt for about a year and I brought it down from 20k to just under 6k. It takes a lot of sacrifice, but its worth it to be debt free again. Dont give up on your budget. Every dollar counts and it's important to reevaluate your finances every once in a while. You'd be surprised how many expenses sneak their way into your budget over time.

Yeah I need to work on it, or start selling myself on the street, if I wasn't so ugly lol. I used to buy coffee every morning at the drive through now I make coffee at work and buy almost expired creamer. Just need to find more cheap alternatives to life.

If you have a job look for a better paying position in your field. It's easier to get a new job when you already have one. Don't be afraid to apply for positions slightly out of your experience bracket. Just be willing to learn quickly and dont be afraid to ask questions.

Thanks for the tips have been doing so the past few months. Just got my Security+ cert on top of my A+ and Network+ so hopefully i can open some new doors.

I've been debt free for a year now. So I got a student loan at age 30... Not sure if sensible. But I plan on not paying it back

Student loans don't disappear if you declare bankruptcy. I don't think there's any way to just not pay them back.

If you make it to 60 or 65 in the UK you don't pay the rest back. It's a stupid and convoluted system that is taxing young people for no reason and it should all be overhauled. From what I understand, the USA is a damn sight worse

What's your reasoning for not paying the loan back and how do you plan to mitigate the affect that the loan will have on your ability to establish credit?

Spite, and in the UK, student loans do not impact the ability to establish credit. That said, if I earn more than 21k, 9% of anything over that is taxed directly so to avoid it I'd have to be self employed and crafty or not earn enough to pay it back so I'm probably just being petty.

Whelp, I'm 28 and have nada.

Edit: Didn't realize that was a negative. Technically I'm at -4k + whatever is left on my car loan. Headed to the bank soon to see if they'll let me refinance...

Hey good job your helping bring the average down! Together we are only down an average of 22k! Makes me feel lots better thanks.

I stacked up 15k by the age of 18, went to university and carefully managed my student loan money such that I came out with 20k at the end of my undergrad. Spent 5k on more university and bought a flat with the other 15k on an interest-only mortgage. Now I'm 23 and that 15k is worth 25k. The flat has served me well for the past 2 years but it's no longer big enough for my fiancée and our 4 year old, let alone the second child we have on the way so I'm looking to sell it and actually get a job and a repayment mortgage on a bigger place.

I mean sure, I technically have like 40k in student debt, but living in the UK means that's basically irrelevant. It doesn't count towards credit score and is paid off like tax - the less you earn the less gets taken, if you earn less than 25k you don't pay anything. For that reason I took the maximum amount I could and banked/invested most of it since even in a decent savings account the interest gained was more than the interest charged. After my undergrad finished I went interrailing around Europe for 3 months with some friends, came back and had more money than when I left.

I'm 22, got about $1,500 in savings, but I'm also $14,000 in debt so while it feels good to have money for an emergency, it'll be a looooong time till I'm in the positive. Got another $60,000 or so in debt to go before I graduate, and the interest alone from that will probably be an issue considering that my chosen field isn't (usually) known for making much money.

Why? Why pay so much money for education when you know your going to struggle to pay it back?

Not everything is about money, it's the sacrifice I'm willing to make to have an extremely satisfying career and life. I won't have kids, which makes financing things a lot easier too.

Dude or dudette, just wanna say good on you for striving to do what you enjoy, even if other people disapprove or whatever. I wish I was that passionate about something.

Thanks, I appreciate it. In my teenage years, I really wasn't passionate about anything, but one thing I've learned is to say yes a lot (obviously not always though.) If someone invites me to something or asks me to work on a project for them, I say yes. It can be really draining, but has also opened me up to many of the things that eventually became passions. From music to teaching to martial arts, I never would've discovered a love for any of those things if I had said "no" to the person who suggested it :)

There was a big part of my life that is basically a void now in hindsight. I sat and played video games or even just laid in bed all day long, always avoiding interaction with other people. I'm still an introvert now, but leaving my comfort zone has at least made me into a socially functioning introvert.

Not trying to force my way of life on anyone, different things work for different people. But it's worth a shot going out and trying some new hobbies even if they sound boring as hell. Oftentimes it's just as much about the people you encounter as the activity itself.

What stashed money? Sigh....

Not only the money, but also the professional expertise gained in that period.

I think there’s definitely a way to make it work. It’s definitely work, though.

You have to work hard and smart.

Imagine a dystopian future where people must give their best, most fertile years to their masters instead of to their families. Where society actively discourages people from having children until they have established themselves as employees that are able to generate profit for business owners, and where people who have children before they are profitable employees are looked down upon as stupid and irresponsible. That sure would suck, wouldn't it?

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You talking about the capitalist class, right? The people who play golf and go on ski trips while everyone else works to pay their dividends?

There are a lot more strata to society than just "struggling wage slaves" and "golf playing investor class fat cats".

Yeah but who is ripping working people off?

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Who is making 50k a year from welfare? Sounds like a myth.

It is.

At most, with social security disability (at 750 a month) and tanf (250 ish- capped at 2 years per dependent) you maybe can get 1k a month. With food stamps? Add 250. Rent assistance? Pays some rent.

At absolute best, people can get about 15000 a year. Now, pay all your bills, food, cloths, school, transportation....

Living the dream!

/s

But welfare queens! No it isn't a racist dog whistle, I'm just a concerned taxpayer!

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Vast minority hey?

You read an article. Are you sure it was an article? Are you sure it wasn't... nothing?

What's a "vast minority"?

The fact that you think the "stupid and lazy" are making anywhere near 50k or that welfare is anything close to that says volumes about your credibility and the value of your opinion on this issue.

Try 10k-12k. If you're making 25k you're doing phenomenally well compared to your peers who "had kids got the govt money," who will be living in poverty, which is all that government benefits provides. What sort of job does someone with no marketable skills get that pays anything like 50k?

That number is just... So off... Wtf.

Sounds like a plot for a future New York Times Bestseller. I would read that in a heartbeat.

Yup. My sister is very lucky, she's a well-paid psychologist with a flexible schedule, but because she is a single mother to a young child, there's just no way for her to work full time. As a result, her actual net income is actually significantly lower than mine (I'm a teacher) and she doesn't have the lifestyle typical of her profession. She believes it's extremely unlikely she will ever become a home owner, for example.

Depends on where you live.

I'm a father of two (9/15) and am 29 years old. Until three years ago, my Wife and I had a combined income of $54k a year. The past three years have been good to us. We now make a combined income of $119k a year. April of last year, We were finally able to afford to rent a three bedroom apartment so our Daughter (9) can have her own room. I'd like to correct a word in your comment - It was hard, yeah very hard, but it was not impossible. If others are out there, including you yourself, that might be in a similar situation, please know that it is not impossible. Stick with it! Kids are worth it.

Where do you live? In certain parts of the country, you'd be doing well enough to have a really nice house, rather than an apartment. (Unless that's not what you want...)

PNW. Just outside of Portland. We dream of owning our own home or property, but that dream has been tabled for now. We plan on exploring less expensive areas after our Son graduates high school. He's currently a Sophomore and doing so well, AP classes, marching band, Track and Field, working part-time, etc. The monthly savings from moving just haven't felt worth the possibility of disrupting his or the Family flow. As my Wife and I saw the situation, in the next upcoming years we will have an opportunity to move regions or downsize the apartment, or both.

I can feel you. I am a father of three (1/4/7) and am 32 years old. OK, I started later, but I was still getting my masters degree when my first child was born. We lived, while paying rent, at her parents' house with less than ~$30k combined income in a two-room flat for three years (living in a cheap-ass rural area, though). Now I finally have a job in tech and our income situation is much better.

Congrats on making it! Kids are difficult no matter the age. There was a lot of grandparent support for our Son - our Daughter, the second has probably been more difficult tbh.

First child at 14? Must have been stressful! Impressive that you managed to build good careers despite that.

Thanks! It has been stressful at times. My wife and I have been blessed with many opportunities.

It's impossible to get a financial foothold if you're only making enough to cover the cost of living.

My current situation.

One of my buddies fucked a girl at a party when he was 20 and she got pregnant and kept the baby.

What happened to him

He moved away and has a completely different life now. He still has loose contact w the kid and pays child support but that’s about it. I’m happy for him tbh.

It's not impossible. Had a kid in my 20s with no money. Only a few years later my wife and I now own our own business, make 6 figures each from it, own a 4 bed house and are a few hundred thousand net worth not including if we sold the business. No degrees, no rich parents.

We are definitely the exception though and it wasn't easy, our life and business are 1 entity. For anyone in thier 20s without kids, I would advise you don't do what we did.

For those who already have a kid or 3, it's not the end of the world, you're not down and out and you do have options, they just might take a bit longer to really kick in.

What sort of business do you do?

We have a photography business and a consulting business.

consulting business

What's one of those?

Basically if you're good at something you can consult on it to other businesses. Logistics, manufacture, general efficiency, IT, marketing, management, staffing etc.

You can charge a flat fee for service, or an hourly rate or even a retainer if they want to call on you at any point.

The first part isn't necessarily true. Mom's and engineer and dad's an accountant and they never stopped working when my sister and I were born (except for the 6 month paid leave) and they are both very successful in their careers.

It's not that they occupy your life, they are your life. You become an npc the moment they're born.

Other species in the animal kingdom have babies that become fully capable and independent basically from birth. Their parents don't really have to teach them shit.

Humans on the other hand have a huge time where they are dependent upon their parents- many years in fact.

I think what made things confusing is that parents now tend to live in parallel with their kids. So when the boy or girl is 16 maybe in early history parents did not really last long enough to support them after that fact, their mission was over.

So the parents lives went away and the new generation were more important.

But now because of life extension due to improvements in health medicine food and infrastructure parents have the luxury of melancholy and depression about their own lives.

This free time allows resentments to develop

Agreed. Kids suck.

who hurt the most is always the innocent children, those two dumbass parents deserve it.

I'm starting to come to the realization i'll probably never be a mother, even though I'd like to be. I can't afford a child.

Even when you get to the point where you can afford them it can all be lost. I lost my support system, my identity (credit cards stolen) and home all in one month and found out the iui I got took and I was pregnant. I had to borrow money for airfare and bounce around from bad place to place while pregnant then I landed in a safe and happy home for the last 6 months of pregnancy only to lose it the day I gave birth because of a change in apartment management companies. Now I'm facing a divorce and another loss of security. Its like a hole with a bunch of false bottoms. When you get down in it it might never be the true rock bottom.

It’s best to see challenges as stepping stones. If you fall down, you are still moving forward, you just gotta keep moving upward and forward at the same time.

The best thing to do is to always be confident, no matter what. If you hit a hard place, you still have to keep your confidence.

Manage your time, budget your money, and have a structured daily routine. This will help cope with the stress. As long as you find a routine that works for you, go through the motions and stepping stones until you find a comfortable place to rest and then pick yourself up again.

Manage your skills. If you have a hobby, embrace it. Use your talents wisely and try to find ways to make those talents worthwhile and even make a bit of money on the side with them.

Be sure that no matter what place you are in, you will always maintain your confidence. Keep looking forward, and keep stepping on those stones no matter if you fall or not. :)

Keep stepping on those stones and keep moving forward. We’re all pulling for you.

Thank you. I really wish I could do that but it seems like after 10 years all I have is the ability to walk and a lot of rage and hopelessness. I had my first therapy appointment today after not being in therapy for a few years, I'm trying to claw my way out but honestly the way I grew up and how my foray into adulthood has gone its hard to do more than react desperately to desperate situations. Its been a lot of pain and death and running and being broken. I don't have any strong hobbies or interests..I never had the luxury of self discovery like that, I have no passion. It took me ages to even figure out that I was transgender and currently I don't think I'll ever be able to transition further because being a woman is the only thing I have to survive with..My parents had me and started selling me to pedophiles and abusing me and it really feels like that's all I'm good for, they groomed me for servitude. I want to be strong and independent but I feel like I can't make it.

Don’t worry. I’m glad that you are seeing a therapist, especially considering your past experiences.

Even when you get some down time, there must be some sort of hobby or thing that you enjoy doing. Try to experiment with different things and see where you can go from that.

You went through all that as a child and now you’re going to give up? Believe me, going through what you’ve been through and coming out the other side takes more strength and willpower than you give yourself credit for. To me you’re a fucking badass! Keep fighting! You say you want to be strong and independent but you don’t think you can make it? You’re already stronger that most people on the planet simply by choosing to get out of bed each morning. I can’t possibly comprehend how difficult it is to be you and I sincerely hope that one day you’ll see how awesome you are.

Thank you..you're so kind. I feel so beat down most of the time and struggle to function. I still have a small amount if hope but it feels so fragile you know? I've got my daughter to look out for and that keeps me going but I just want to be able to make things better than I had for her...

This was an amazing comment... I wasn't the one you were talking to, but it definitely helped me, so thank you!!

Don't let this comment thread get you down. Almost everyone can afford a child. But you need a few things:

(1) A spouse. Having a partner in parenting is simply indispensable. There are a lot of responsibilities involved. Those responsibilities are perfectly manageable by a two-person team, but become overwhelming if you're on your own.

(2) A work schedule that allows you and your spouse to keep your kids out of daycare. Daycare is easily the largest cost of having a child by a vast margin. It's really astounding. The most common form of this is "somebody quits his job and becomes a stay-at-home parent," but there are plenty of flex arrangements people have made so they can work but still avoid the childcare bullet.

(3) A community that at least doesn't hate children. (Don't have to love 'em, either. Just can't hate 'em. Haters can make things really unnecessarily hard on struggling parents.)

(4) An affordable lifestyle. By that, I mostly mean, "It's really really hard to have enough money to raise kids if you live in New York or San Francisco." The big cities are not affordable for regular humans anymore.

(5) Health insurance. Because somehow this isn't a thing everyone has yet.

There are some really tough choices in here. That's undeniable. Many people really do have to choose between having a career and being a parent. Many people really do have to whether they want kids enough to move to an economically (and culturally) different kind of place. And, if the parenthood is not built on a marriage -- and a marriage that lasts, at that -- I really don't know how people manage it. Should it be this hard to have kids in modern America, the wealthiest society in the history of the world by far? Absolutely not.

But it breaks my heart to see people saying they want kids but can't see a path to doing so. Our culture (which is low-key very hostile to non-rich people having babies) works overtime to make it invisible, but the path (hard as it can be) is there, and it's open to everyone.

Hope that helps, at least a little.

That's why I expect all reproduction in the coming decades to be in the form of unplanned pregnancies. No one can afford that shit anymore. Wages are too low and prices are too high.

Well this already happens. I’d wager near half of all pregnancies are unplanned

In the US the CDC says 40%, but I don’t how how that holds up around the world.

I'm curious if that's pregnancies or births.

I’m assuming pregnancies, since it goes on to say how many of those result in an abortion

it does certainly put a lot more strain on the people of lower economic classes. You don't necessarily need money to be a good parent but ya kinda do

an unfortunate circumstance

"You don't need much money to be a good parent" is a very true phrase. The operative word is 'much'. The key part is having enough money beyond basic necessities to spend time with your kids. If you have to work multiple jobs to keep food on the table as a single parent, you have much less influence in how your child is being raised, which can really hurt their chances at success later in life if they start struggling with school, have a lack of positive structure, or very few role models.

Being a single parent seems impossible coming from a married man

This is most definitely true, but I don’t believe that the government should have any intervention in this (I’m not sure if you’re implying that or not but I’m putting it out there).

And then you get people who can't manage to keep their children out of "the system" and they seem to be squeezing out a new one every eleven months.

Especially if the kid has something chronic.

Hey that’s me

I’m fine now but I had two open heart surgeries before I was 2 y/o and have had 4 more heart surgeries (not open heart tho) since then. Am v fortunate my parents had their shit together

I had a lung problem. I still occasionally get a flair-up, especially when I get a cold. Strep throat is even worse, thank god I've only ever gotten that once.

There is a point of diminishing returns with it though. I've got friends that keep saying that they want kids and keep moving their financial goal posts. Next pay rise. After more of the house is paid off. The issue is that there is never a hard line in the sand that indicates enough financial security to have a child. I think its more about being realistic about the cost of kids and not waiting instead for some magical go-ahead point.

If you want kids, understand the cost but don't be surprised if even when you plan for it, shit can still go a bit pear shaped.

This is why my wife and I decided to just be DINKs (dual income no kids).

We kept moving those goalposts and then realized we enjoy having lots of money for travel and hobbies so much, so we eliminated those goalposts entirely.

That's awesome! I'm a bit jealous of some of my DINK friends at times. There's things I wish i'd done before I had kids but ultimately I don't feel like the experiences I get out of life have been lessened by having them. Just changed a bit.

I think it's equally as important for people to be able to make that decision for themselves and enjoy what they want from life. For me I always wanted to have a little family of my own and I understood going in what that would mean for me.

This is something I don’t understand in America. So many people are like “I make 8$ an hour, I am expecting my third child”

Don’t people realize how expensive kids can be? Why do people who can’t afford have so many kids? Is it the social safety net that makes them think it’s ok?

There is no significant safety net in America. You can only live in poverty on state benefits. A combination of social and cultural pressures, lack of sex education, lack of education in general, lack of hope for a better future, lack of opportunity and options, lack of access to birth control and abortion is why someone making 8$/hr is having a third kid.

If we made sure everyone had access to quality education, the rich didn't have every advantage at the expense of the poor, that everyone had the same opportunities, that no one ever had to feel hopeless, and that the safety net was actually a literal safety net and not just some joke that half the government continually tries to destroy for fun that would go a long way to ending this problem you're talking about. Add in an end to the stigmatiarion of sex, an end to slut shaming, an increase in sex Ed, and an increase in access to and availability of birth control methods and abortion you'll solve the issue.

Mind you it's not really a big thing that's actually happening, it's mostly a red herring.

A combination of social and cultural pressures, lack of sex education, lack of education in general, lack of hope for a better future, lack of opportunity and options, lack of access to birth control and abortion is why someone making 8$/hr is having a third kid.

The primary reason why those at lower income levels are having kids is due to a variety of different reasons, mostly ignorance, but also heavy reliance on social safety nets.

I would also argue that the USA is the primary location for financial opportunity and options themselves. Furthermore, most people who have limited access to sex ed and abortion usually hold their kids up for adoption if they recognise that they cannot responsibly raise a child in a financially stable home.

If we made sure everyone had access to quality education, the rich didn't have every advantage at the expense of the poor

None of this is true. The solution is to actually cut the social safety nets entirely and make people financially responsible for themselves rather than making the government stronger. The free market will always prevail, not the government.

that everyone had the same opportunities, that no one ever had to feel hopeless

Both of these issues are actually caused by the abuse of social safety nets.

Add in an end to the stigmatiarion of sex, an end to slut shaming, an increase in sex Ed, and an increase in access to and availability of birth control methods and abortion you'll solve the issue.

I think all of these are wonderful but they don’t entirely solve the problem of income inequality for struggling parents.

There is no significant safety net in America. You can only live in poverty on state benefits.

This is true.

but also heavy reliance on social safety nets

I'm going to need a source on this. It sounds like 1980s welfare queen propaganda. Very very few people are having kids for welfare. Welfare doesn't pay enough to get you above the poverty line.

I would also argue that the USA is the primary location for financial opportunity and options themselves

I strongly disagree. If you're a highly educated immigrant sure maybe you can Max your earnings here, but if you're born in America out society is very stratified. Those with wealth have access to safe homes, good infrastructure, quality education, and economic opportunity. The middle class have some moderate amount of those things, but not nearly as much as the rich. The poor have none of those things. All based solely on the luck of the draw.

America has a fairly rigid class system, with a few notable exceptions to keep the myth alive that anyone can succeed. The reality is that almost everyone dies in the same class they were born into.

Furthermore, most people who have limited access to sex ed and abortion usually hold their kids up for adoption if they recognise that they cannot responsibly raise a child in a financially stable home.

You're going to need a source on this. Putting a child up for adoption is something women are universally very heavily shamed for, if you're poor and didn't have a good education you're not going to be more likely to give your kid up for adoption.

The solution is to actually cut the social safety nets entirely and make people financially responsible for themselves rather than making the government stronger. The free market will always prevail, not the government.

Where is your evidence for this? In matters of personal/social welfare the free market essentially never does the right thing until it is forced to by government action. Societies that have strong safety nets, let's say Finland, have lower rates of childbirth in general, and they just don't have a problem with people having children they can't afford.

Income inequality is low, economic opportunity is much better than in America, education is more equal, the safety net actually functions as a safety net. Yet the problems you indicate essentially don't exist.

Both of these issues are actually caused by the abuse of social safety nets.

How is income inequality and poverty caused by social safety nets? And where is your evidence of widespread abuse?

I think all of these are wonderful but they don’t entirely solve the problem of income inequality for struggling parents.

They all help, as would increaisng benefits, improving education, increasing worker control and so on

I'm going to need a source on this. It sounds like 1980s welfare queen propaganda. Very very few people are having kids for welfare. Welfare doesn't pay enough to get you above the poverty line.

I guess you can say that, but the reliance itself on social safety nets usually prevents people from excelling financially. It usually traps people into poverty rather than helping them out of it.

good infrastructure, quality education, and economic opportunity. The middle class have some moderate amount of those things, but not nearly as much as the rich. The poor have none of those things. All based solely on the luck of the draw.

Well I do agree with you somewhat, but our system is very open to those who are poor and struggling. It’s very easy to get to the middle class, and even easier to find a good skill or hobby you have and then capitalise upon it, easier than almost anywhere else.

America has a fairly rigid class system, with a few notable exceptions to keep the myth alive that anyone can succeed.

It’s not a myth, though. I grew up in dire conditions and I went through the motions, worked hard, and now I’m in a comfortable place.

The reality is that almost everyone dies in the same class they were born into.

There’s tremendous wage mobility in the USA. The majority of people born in the bottom income levels will not be there within 15 years, even with inflation stealing your buying power.

You're going to need a source on this. Putting a child up for adoption is something women are universally very heavily shamed for

No? I haven’t seen many examples of this but I would rather be shamed for doing something responsible than to be accepted in a dire situation where I cannot afford to give a precious child a comfortable upbringing.

Where is your evidence for this? In matters of personal/social welfare the free market essentially never does the right thing until it is forced to by government action.

This is nonsense. The economy is the only thing equipped enough to win the war on poverty, not the government. The free market is entirely responsible for creating a class of millions of people who aren’t dependent upon the government. Access to education and trade schools are key toward getting people off of the public dime.

let's say Finland

Oh boy do I love riding bikes for miles because there’s a 180% tax on my car payment. /s

and they just don't have a problem with people having children they can't afford.

Finland is an incredibly homogenous and small society, and most of their wealth is inherited. This is in great contrast with the USA, a diversity powerhouse, where most wealth is obtained by the sweat of your brow. I can pull up a table but I lost the link. It’s much easier to fund social safety nets in a homogenous society with tons of wealth inheritance than a mega diverse society with a third of a billion people.

Furthermore, you can always rely upon the free market to do just about anything. When it comes to a good retirement, the free market delivers with tons of reliable brokerage services that are transparent, when it comes to car insurance, the heavily reliable competitive rates system is not only high quality but very affordable, when it comes to business investments and expansion the free market is always there, when it comes to innovation the USA is always willing to try new things even at the expense of big businesses who rely upon old innovations (Kodak’s collapse, for example), the free market always provides quality education when not given a government subsidy (this is why college tends to be expensive is because the government gets involved), the free market provides a strong banking sector, the free market provides “transition” jobs of lower income to add to one’s resumé to transition into higher-skilled jobs, the free market provides a strong manufacturing sector that keeps consumer items priced low, and furthermore, the free market provides one of the strongest services sector to give quality services to just about anything from delivery, brokerages, call centers, access to pricing strategists, banking, psychology, therapy, gyms, private transport, repairs, inspections, and so on.

The free market provides all of these things every day and is more than happy to hire more.

How is income inequality and poverty caused by social safety nets?

For example in California, pregnancy assistance clamped with food stamps make it so that way you cannot own a car to receive government assistance. They do this to increase reliance on public transport but that does shit if you’re living in a transit desert. Not owning a car makes it very difficult to transition to higher incomes.

There is widespread abuse of the welfare system. Many people do the “double dutch” reapply for food stamps where they swap SSN’s, many businesses also abuse the welfare system by using it as an excuse not to pay workers more or give them needed bonuses.

increasing worker control and so on

Increasing worker control puts more pressure on union-employee relationships which often ends up with the wage demand getting too high and many people laid off. We need to increase employer responsibility, not labour unions.

the reliance itself on social safety nets usually prevents people from excelling financially.

That's only because, in the US, our social programs have been intentionally sabotaged by a group of people trying very hard to convince people that collective action doesn't work. In other countries social safety nets help get people back on their feet, it prevents people from being trapped in poverty.

A big part of why our welfare programs don't work is because we don't have good education and everyone is one unfortunate accident away from poverty. In other countries this just isn't how people live, and they're universally happier for it.

It’s very easy to get to the middle class

Do you have statistics on that? The median income in the us is 30,550. The highest median income at any age bracket is a smidge over 40. Middle class doesn't even begin until you make 50k a year in the US. I think the majority of Americans are not, and will never be middle class. We just tell ourselves that anyone can be because every now and then a few people are. But we shouldn't judge the successes of our system based on the few but on what the most likely outcomes are and especially what life is like for the least 'successful.'

easier than almost anywhere else.

In almost every other country it's far easier to be middle class, the floor is working class not poverty, and everyone receives a quality education, has benefits to fall back on, and isn't one accident away from losing everything.

It’s not a myth, though.

Look, I did something similar, but we're the exceptions. That's what I said. There are exceptions, that isn't what we should judge our society based on.

tremendous wage mobility in the USA.

I'm going to need you to provide evidence of this, because it's just not true. The majority of Americans will never earn more than about 40k a year.

I would rather be shamed for doing something responsible

Sure, but if you're poor, especially poor and a teen, and your family cuts you off you're likely going to be homeless. Shame is not just something you can shrug off and ignore, the majority of humans are severely negatively impacted by being ostracized.

The economy is the only thing equipped enough to win the war on poverty,

The free market economy is a force creating poverty, it isn't trying to combat it. If it were we wouldn't have hundred billionaires in the same society where people live in the street, going hungry, where there are tens of millions of vacant homes, and 40% of our food is wasted. The free market is fundamentally inefficient, it seeks to maximize profit which means making the cheapest quality goods possible at the lowest price possible while selling it for the highest price possible. This is why things like for profit medicine and for profit education fundamentally fail.

The free market is entirely responsible for creating a class of millions of people who aren’t dependent upon the governmen

The free market is entirely responsible for the tens of millions of people who die every year from starvation and curable disease, that we simply do not help because it isn't profitable.

Finland is an incredibly homogenous and small society, and most of their wealth is inherited.

What does being homogenous or small matter? The US has more people but it also has more money. It has more money per person. The size of the US would actually mean our per capita costs would be lower than Finland, also, just based on economies of scale. The only reason we don't have a system like that one is a lack of political will and centuries of indoctrination against helping each other.

But if you think differently, please explain specifically how a homogenous population matters.

I'm not talking about billionaires as much as regular people. We're talking about the earnings of a normal person. But on the subject of inheritance in Finland is taxed at any amount over 20,000 euros. In the US your inheritance doesn't even start getting taxed until it exceeds 5.5 million dollars.

It’s much easier to fund social safety nets in a homogenous society with tons of wealth inheritance

Why? The US has more total wealth and more wealth per person than Finland. The entire world uses the US dollar as the reference currency and most of the global economy flows through America in some way. Exactly why do you believe it would be harder for us to provide equivalent benefits? It seems we should be able to do far better. Walmart can buy apples for a far lower price than mom and pop's corner shop.

you can always rely upon the free market to do just about anything

Anything that serves the profit motive. Abusing workers, polluting the environment, fighting against regulation, charging as much as they possibly can for a product.

reliable brokerage services that are transparent

That are universally less reliable or robust than state pensions, are incredibly volatile and vulnerable to 'busts' parallel to the market at the time they're needed most. Mind you these brokers do not have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interest of their investors, because 'the free market' lobbied to remove regulation.

quality education when not given a government subsidy

Absolutely not. Did you not pay attention to all those for profit colleges that collapsed? Do you not thing that even if it were good, an education only some people can access is fundamentally unjust? That everyone deserves the same quality of education? How does the free market provide better education to those most in need rather than those with every advantage in life?

the free market provides a strong banking sector,

That is prone to supremely unethical behaviour, taking advantage of their customers even in violation of extant regulations. The banking sector's unethical behaviour caused the economic collapse just a decade ago, caused real people to lose their homes, their jobs, their 'free market retirement plans,' and their hope.

the free market provides “transition” jobs of lower income to add to one’s resumé to transition into higher-skilled jobs,

Something that doesn't work for the majority of people.

one of the strongest services sector to give quality services to just about anything from delivery, brokerages, call centers, access to pricing strategists, banking, psychology, therapy, gyms, private transport, repairs, inspections, and so on.

None of which matters one iota if you cannot access it. If something is not accessible by all people it is a privilege, not a freedom.

For example in California, pregnancy assistance clamped with food stamps make it so that way you cannot own a car to receive government assistance. They do this to increase reliance on public transport but that does shit if you’re living in a transit desert. Not owning a car makes it very difficult to transition to higher incomes.

I don't know enough about this situation to discuss it in depth, but what it sounds like to me is that we need to provide more assistance with fewer preconditions and the problem would be solved.

Mind you the 'free market' has NO assistance programs for people in need.

There is widespread abuse of the welfare system. Many people do the “double dutch” reapply for food stamps where they swap SSN’s, many businesses also abuse the welfare system by using it as an excuse not to pay workers more or give them needed bonuses.

You're going to need to provide evidence. Food stamps have lower rates of fraud than almost anything else in society, much lower than private insurance for example. http://time.com/4711668/history-food-stamp-fraud/ there's a 1.5% rate of fraud, and an estimate of one penny per dollar. This is incredibly highly functioning. Honestly it's better than any private charity and essentially any other government programs even. Food stamps are just not an area where abuse happens.

BUT EVEN IF IT DID we're talking about people buying food. We should increase the amount given to be more than 32 a week and that would eliminate the need for fraud.

Increasing worker control puts more pressure on union-employee relationships which often ends up with the wage demand getting too high and many people laid off. We need to increase employer responsibility, not labour unions.

When US wages were at their highest, worker satisfaction was at it's highest, and the time in the past a lot of Americans think was 'great' economically labour unions were very strong. Since then the government has been working with businesses to systematically dismantle labour unions, and that is why wages haven't grown since the 70s despite productivity nearly doubling in that time. Just think about it, all this technology, a 24 hour work schedule, automation and computer precision hasn't increased pay one bit. Because employers are empowered, and workers are disempowered.

The workplace should be a democracy, not a totalitarian dictatorship with a top down structure and the constant risk of termination hanging over your head. Workers should be paid based on the value of their labour not based on some arbitrarily negotiated wage. Incidentally doing this would dramatically reduce the need for social safetynets and government aid programs. The reason these programs must exist is because the free market does not work at providing the majority of people what they need. We are all effectively subsidizing Walmart through the safety net programs their workers rely on. If walmart paid them according to the value of their labour those programs would be pretty moot.

However in a few short decades when every job can be automated we will need to fundamentally transform our economy. We will have access to a post scarcity society, what remains to be seen is if those gains will be shared with everyone or hoarded by the rich. If we allow the free market to decide it will be the latter, as it has always been throughout history. That will be absolutely disastrous in every way.

A big part of why our welfare programs don't work is because we don't have good education

We have good education, it just isn’t affordable. That’s key. The reason why it isn’t affordable is because the government got involved with subsidies and such that increase the general cost of education. The solution is not to get the government more involved.

What does being homogenous or small matter?

Because we are different people. This is also true in health concerns. The range of issues in Norway in regards to health is very homogenous while the USA is diverse and different. People in West Virginia and Wyoming are more likely to get lung cancer than in Maryland, etc.

Do you have statistics on that? The median income in the us is 30,550.

That’s the median. The average is less likely to be skewed by drastic amounts of outliers. The average is the highest in the world at $68,000 for heads of homes and $59,000 for individuals. Both rank #1.

Look, I did something similar, but we're the exceptions. That's what I said. There are exceptions, that isn't what we should judge our society based on.

Yes, that IS what we should judge our society based on. The fact that I, along with millions who grew up in dire situations, were able to innovate and make their own businesses, attributes all of this to the American Dream which is alive and well.

Do you honestly believe that someone like me, who grew up in an algae-infested moldy dump house with family that isn’t financially stable, who escaped a religious cult, can create their own investments, research, and services on their own in Denmark, where all of these things are taxed beyond reason and is increasingly difficult (although they had a good free market reform in 2014 after collective bargaining failed yet again) to begin and innovate? Where you cannot own a car without a 180% tax on your car payment? Where Danish homes are worth millions for 600 square feet? Where only those who were previously affluent before the government reforms are the only ones with any hope?

Middle class doesn't even begin until you make 50k a year in the US.

Again, we are in a diverse nation. These numbers change everywhere. Usually in New York City the middle class begins around $83,000/year and even higher in California.

Yet if you make more than $32,000/year anywhere in the USA, you are part of the world’s top 1%.

In almost every other country it's far easier to be middle class

No it is not. They do not have nearly as much business competition as the USA has and it is much harder to find transition jobs or skills nearby. It is also extremely difficult to own a home in Europe. It is also hard to buy gas with rising prices, hence why so many ride bikes, it is hard to do most things that you enjoy in the USA.

The USA is the richest nation in the world, by a lot.

The free market is entirely responsible for the tens of millions of people who die every year from starvation and curable disease,

I’ve lost count of how many times that I’ve heard this Marxist bullshit. Capitalism creates cures for disease and research and properly rewards doctors for their services. Public health is a nightmare (take the post office but add cancer) and usually calls for tons of rationing.

I'm going to need you to provide evidence of this, because it's just not true. The majority of Americans will never earn more than about 40k a year.

If you went from poverty to 40k/year, that’s wage mobility.

Sure, but if you're poor, especially poor and a teen, and your family cuts you off you're likely going to be homeless. Shame is not just something you can shrug off and ignore, the majority of humans are severely negatively impacted by being ostracized.

And tell me how that teen cannot simply find a skill and capitalise upon it? Why can’t they find a job? Why can’t they start a business? Because business opportunities are leaving for Taiwan because of progressives who don’t believe in the free market.

In the US your inheritance doesn't even start getting taxed until it exceeds 5.5 million dollars.

Mostly the rich pay the estate tax, but here is the law itself with all of the adjusted tables.

Here’s the truth: the USA is so damn rich, that even if you are poor, you aren’t poor for long if you know what the hell you’re doing. If you aren’t in the middle class by the age of 44, it’s not because you don’t have money, it’s because you suck with money. It’s because you decided to rack in thousands of credit card debt and never find a good hobby or skill for a career. It’s literally that simple. We can help people out of poverty but there’s only so much that we can do.

Mind you the 'free market' has NO assistance programs for people in need.

Private Charity. The YMCA. The American Red Cross. The American Heart Association, etc.

When US wages were at their highest, worker satisfaction was at it's highest, and the time in the past a lot of Americans think was 'great' economically labour unions were very strong

Ah yes the great Cenk Uygur 1950’s dreamland economy with tax rates of 95%! /s

Labour unions forced jobs overseas, leaving those car factories in Detroit desolate and ruined. When you push investors to the limit, they run away.

the workplace should be a democracy

So, uh, workers of the world unite?

workers should be paid based upon the value of their labor and not some arbitrarily negotiated wage

And who determines the value of their labour? In a Socialist society, it would be the state.

Arbitrarily negotiated wages are a good thing because they are competitive. If the factory next door pays their workers more than me, then all of my workers will ditch me and join them. This competition is why CEO’s are paid so high, and so on. This competition needs to —dare I say— trickle down to the lower income earners.

The reason why the wages haven’t grown since the 70’s is not because of the government turning their backs upon the unions. It’s actually because the government started embracing the unions, and when Reagan noticed that the embrace of unions pushed jobs overseas, he militarised our government against them. I am against both of these tactics. I am not against unions, I just don’t believe that the government should help nor deny them. They should negotiate on their own.

However in a few short decades when every job can be automated we will need to fundamentally transform our economy.

This is the Steven Hawking argument at its finest.

Nope. Not the social safety net. It's the, "welp, I'm already fucked beyond repair, one more won't make much difference."

Usually those are the people who are also misinformed about sexual reproduction and birth control methods. America doesn’t have great sexual education programs.

WIC and Medicaid works absolute wonders. I was making $12/hr when my girlfriend had our first child. We never would have made it without those programs.

Why do people who can’t afford have so many kids? Is it the social safety net that makes them think it’s ok?

yep, government assistance

also, those types don't tend to be too concerned with the quality of their kids lives.

Mostly they don't know any better, at least from my perspective. They've grown up with several generations of poverty. They've had no good examples about how to do things to get out of a bad situation.

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You're not wrong there.

Why was this downvoted?

The welfare state is the root of all evil.

US safety net, good one! It’s the child support from baby Daddy.

Time, too. When you have kids your life doesn't belong to you any more. You're committing yourself to be in service of someone else's life and it will be many years, if ever, before you can focus on doing what you want to do again.

My ex is set on having a kid before she's 30. She is 26 and can't even hold a job for a prolonged time.

She had plans to go to university but didn't because that would stand in the way of having a kid. That's fucked up.

They cost on average about $300,000 usd for 18 years not adjusted for inflation.

I look at this one the opposite. You can manage to get by being poor. Then your kids are grown and gone by the time you are 40. You will then already be frugal and it will be easy to save for retirement. Waiting until you are successful means you may never have children.

$200-400 thousand from 1-18 right?

That’s only if the kid has no other problems like medical surgeries or a disability

And not including a college fund.

Ya so I guess that only accounts for food, clothes and what? Housing?

Being born has a lot of hospital costs right there

Is college even worth it these days?

Depends on the degree.

Emotionally is the big one, you don't need alot of money. The children suffer the most when thier parents aren't ready to be adults.

you don't need alot of money

yeah, ya kinda do, if you want to do it right

I say this all the time. I grew up in a financially and emotionally unstable household and after much thought, I believe the emotional instability was the most damaging long-term.

That's the big one?
Hell, "you should have kids, you're emotionally and mentally unstable, but you've got lots of money!" Said no one.

You are never financially ready for a child. You adjust.

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meh, sounds like you kinda wasted your 20s

If they were happy then I wouldn't say they wasted them at all.

I mean if they're happy I wouldn't call it wasted, everyone wants different things. I think life should be about what makes you happy, not what other people think you should be doing. Just my 2 cents though.

except your 20s are pretty much your peak years so why spend them changing diapers?

you can never get them back

While I do agree 100% with you that you can never get them back, I think we just aren't going to agree on the rest of it so I'm happy to agree to disagree :) Just for the fact that I think people should be allowed to choose what their happiness is, even if it's changing diapers. Different people find their happiness in all sorts of things I wouldn't agree with necessarily, it doesn't change the fact that it makes them happy.

Being a parent is more than just changing diapers. I had my first at 21 and it was definitely a struggle, but so worth it.

How did you send your 20s? Or rather, how do you PLAN to spend your 20s? A comment like that is obviously from a very immature mind.

loooll no, responsibility /= maturity

One thing is for sure I did not spend my peak years changing diapers and waking up 3x a night for months on end.

Better to have cut that kid out of the womb so they could build their "careers" amirite?

Better to have not gotten knocked up so young.

Cards played right, they'll have both a loving family AND a new level of disposable income pouring in when the kids move out while Mom and Dad are just hitting their early 40s. Sounds alright.

Yep, that's me now. Having a kid definitely makes you get your shit together.

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from 16-18

lmao, oh yeah, high school WOOOOOOOOO what a riot that must have been

all that 21-28 partying is just soooo overrated

Most people forget to consider this one.

Kids are a much bigger burden on your personal space and time than on your wallet. Especially when they're little.

yes and kids deserve to be born into a safe stable happy environment. Unless you've laid that foundation for your children, please, do not have them! Lots of young people feel like with a baby everything magically will somehow turn for a better. NO! Having children will bring more stress and difficulty into your life

Ugh tell me about it. Spent so much just to adopt, then there was the actual things to take care of the child (furniture, clothes, formula, etc)... Already put in so much there's no way we could do it again without severely affecting her life in the future.

That’s the only thing stopping us right now. 21, married, own a home... but with all the bills groceries dogs and loan payments, as well as insurance and stuff... no babies yet

“If you can’t afford a condom, you can’t afford a child”

Not if you give them to someone else

And resell isn't even good enough smh

I will never be able to afford to have kids

Financially and mentally prepared for a child seem to be the most important things.

Not if you know the right people.

Our family is more... get married have kids... that'll force you to be financially ready

On the flip side, if you weigh the pure cost of a family, it's never "worth it". My wife and I have two kids. On paper, we barely could afford one, if that. But we want kids, so you make it work.

Kids are not that expensive. We have two and we are probably somewhere in the very low middle class. I have everything I want and my kids seem to be happy. Just don’t be an idiot with money.

They're expensive with your time though. I don't have kids myself yet but I am a good auntie and stuff. You have a few kids and it's all appointment this, appointment that, parent-teacher conference, etc. If you're in a situation where you have a really inflexible job or a lack of a support system the time suck can wear a person ragged.

For us the expenses creep in, like we need to add say $30 a month for nappies, or $400 for a car seat. You don't need a huge outlay, but room in your budget (our experience, anyway). I have seen some people go so overboard with kids clothes when you see a 6 month old in Nikes and a brand name hoodie. I would rather save that money for a day out or LO's saving account.

I paid 500 for cloth diapers and pay maybe 1 a week to wash them (water and detergent) when I lost my job and my kid was 3 months old I went to a thrift shop and spent 50 for a years worth of baby clothes. The big convertable car seat was only $60 on amazon. My husband (well now ex) is more expensive than my kid.

I have cloth nappies too but I wouldn't be able to get them dry here at the moment. Maybe once it heaps up again. The op shops here sound expensive compared to yours, ours try and get $3 for a $4 pair of leggings. Its a shame really, I would totally use them more!

I bought my cloth diapers online. Mostly used minus the over nights I got from kangacare. The local shop that carries them does charge a lot. The thrift store I frequent only costs .95-$2 for kids clothes unless they're still with tags or designer and then they're max $6. The shop has weekly tag sales so 2 colors of price tags are 50% each week and sometimes its all clothing 50% off. Its pretty great place, they donate a lot of their profits to teen pregnancy help places and womens shelters.

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Childcare is ridiculous, it probably helps that my wife works from home with the kids and I only work three days a week. Also, we live way out in the boondocks of Kentucky. It’s pretty cheap out here.

You should probably preface your original statement with that, because you are living an atypical lifestyle. Supporting a kid on one income in the vicinity of any metropolitan area is a lot more expensive than the way you choose to live.

USA I'm guessing?

I never understand where these "kids are expensive" posts are coming from, because our kids cost less than our car insurance.

...but then I get reminded that most people are spending big on childcare. Probably the biggest unspoken financial and cultural divide in America is between people who put their kids in daycare and people who figure out something else. (My wife works part-time and my work allows somewhat flexible hours, which is a tremendous blessing that makes this possible for us.)

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Yeah, when we were having our first kid, we wondered whether my spouse should start working full-time to earn some extra scratch. We ran the numbers, and it turned out that, after the added child care expenses, it was cheaper for her not to earn the second income!

It's really incredible. My jaw drops every time I look at the numbers, and my mind reels every time I realize that something like one-quarter of American children (thus presumably about one-quarter of American parents) actually pay those costs and somehow make it work.

Kudos to you for surviving it. If I may ask out of curiosity, what made you decide not to go the "stay-at-home parent" route for one of you?

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Oh, yeah, with a mortgage like that, what can you do? I'm glad you have a plan, but, to repeat: I'm impressed you've kept your heads above water.

Kids are certainly not cheap, but I’m always baffled by the expenses people complain about most regarding them. When I was pregnant, all I could think about was how much our health insurance was going to cost a month with another person on it. Diapers and formula I could just squeeze into my grocery budget, but health care premiums and deductibles, even for a healthy kid, is a major expensive no one really mentions.

You're probably going to be downvoted and I as well but I completely agree. I'm 24 with a wife and kid and I'm doing just fine financially. Not great but I have 0 complaints. So either this is a humble brag and I'm better with my money than I think or people are just really dumb with their money

I just think most people aren't good with money.

My father raised me and my sister on a single income, while supporting my stay at home mother, this also wasn't the 1970's or 80's or something, this was recent, I'm 20.

He doesn't have a degree, and does manual labor.

Don't know why you're being downvoted. This is me now. It's not bad, I'm loving life, and kids are a fucking joy. People are acting like kids eat your time, like they are some sort of burden. Good thing they aren't having kids yet.

Having children didn’t hurt us financially at all. I actually took a lower paying job so I could be home with the new baby more. I’m not sure why people are downvoting everyone’s comments about be able to afford kids.

Because you live in bumfuck kentucky middle america where shit is cheap and most people are addicted to meth so for the semi sober people there it’s probably easy to find work doing farm or construction shit. Most other states cost of living is higher.

True. Source: me.

But we planned to have our son which meant that we had purchased our first home and had our careers and 401ks started before he was born. Yeah, we can’t go on out of state/country trips as often our childless friends, but my boy is worth having to wait to do that until he is older.

sounds like ya did it right, had all your ducks in a row

Not gonna lie, but no they really arent. Teach them right, cook your own meals (helps to know how to cook a damn good meal), work your work, spend a bunch of time with them, show them how to live without a bunch of unneeded bullshit and youve got a kid that is happy as fuck, has a bunch of friends, time to enjoy growing up and isnt really that expensive.

I hear this all the time and it blows my mind. Then I see "oh, spent $3000 on a 4 day trip to DisneyLand with the kids...", fuck that bullshit. How about you spend $500 on a 7 day Aribnb trip to the woods (hell even bring a friend or 2 of theirs so they learn) and teach those little fuckers how to fish and have a great time.

Most people are fucking stupid and just decide kids are expensive. Some people know how to do it correctly and teach MAJOR life lessons in the process. Laziness in regards to kids ends up costing a lot. Dont be a lazy ass parent, you dont spend a ton on someone else willing to do things with your kids, because you do it yourself for next to nothing.

To each their own I guess...

Edit: and before the bullshit flows in, if your job takes you away from your child that much that you cant spend any time with them and have to pay someone a shitload to raise your kid for you, youre fucking up hard. Move away and live your life where you can do it right. New career, new town, fuck: new state. MAKE. IT. WORK. You only raise this kid once, dont be a cunt.

What's so expensive about kids? I have a 3 y/o and a 1 month old, and combined they cost maybe... $200 per month? That's really not a big deal.

The cultural and financial divide between "parents with kids in daycare" and "parents who worked out something else" is truly vast.

The daycare down the block from me is run by my employer. It's where I would probably want to send my child if I hadn't worked it out so we don't need daycare. They charge $1509-$1982 dollars per child per month for full-time care ages 0-4 (depending on age). The average day care in my state, according to the Boston Globe, charges $1156 per child per month.

Those of us with the privilege of not having our kids in day care often don't realize what an insanely huge financial burden it is for those who use it (often not by choice).

I mean, otherwise, you're right. My kids cost maybe $300/month combined, and half of that is the extra $150/month in health insurance premiums to cover them in addition to just me and my wife. But if my circumstances were slightly different, I'd have two kids under 5 in daycare, and I'd be spending over $2500 on my kids per month.

...geeze, I've never really thought about it that way myself, either. Cripes.

Oh, well yeah that sounds pretty nasty. But that's more about the US than kids in general. I don't need to pay for health insurance, because health care is tax funded, and daycare costs $100 per month, which conveniently is the same amount you get as "barnbidrag" from the state as aid for having kids. Yea yea, it's not free if it's tax funded, but you pay the same tax regardless, having kids doesn't change that.

I guess the government here feels it's a little more efficient to have 1 daycare worker take care of 5 kids, than force 5 mothers to have to stay at home full time due to insane day care costs. :)

barnbidrag

Found the Swede!

Oh, well yeah that sounds pretty nasty. But that's more about the US than kids in general.

True and fair point. I do have that sad American tendency to forget that not all redditors are Americans.

Letting your parents pressure you in to having children.

Yes! The absolute worst fucking idea ever. They’ll be dead long before you and you’re stuck with this kid that you may not have wanted all so they can play with them for a few years

Letting your spouse pressure you into having children.

I was not ready for kids and I did not realize that I would become a stay at home dad. I feel blessed that my wife is able to provide for us, but I pretty much had to give up on a career. I have found that people look down on men who are not the primary earner.

That’s great man! Ya there’s still a stigma of men should be the breadwinner but I think that’s changing. Maybe in the near future it’ll be completely gone

Especially with the wrong person. The biggest mistake you can make is choosing the wrong partner with whom to whether this existence. As pops always said, "Marry someone you could amicably divorce."

Sometimes that's hard to take into account. People change overtime and someone who's great before kids can turn into a nightmare after the kid is born

At the same time, if you wait for all of these things, it's can be too late to have children. I had a friend had two boys at 22 and 24 . He went to a good school, and has a good job, but definitely still has to hustle to get all the bills paid. I used to think he threw away his life (this was like 10 years ago) because he couldn't whore it up in his 20s. But we were having a beer and talking about it, and I asked him if he felt like he missed out on anything, and he was like "Fuck no, I'm going to have my children out of the house by the time I'm 40!" Which does dramatically change the way a lot of people look at their lives. Being free at 40 is different than waiting until you're 55.

Now that I'm in my 30s, I noticed A LOT of my female friends who all said "I'm never having kids! Fuck that!" are now talking about in vitro and trying to get pregnant before it's too late. And it really does become too late faster than we think. In Italy the average age of a first child is now around 32 years old. And it's growing across the board among educated women.

Just saying, that for many, if you wait until the "perfect time" then that time simply will never come, and then they're 36 spending tons of money trying to get pregnant wondering why they didn't do it 5 years ago.

More time with grandkids too

This was one of the biggest reasons for us to have kids in our 20s too. It's nice to know that we'll be in our mid 40s when our kids probably move out. I also feel like being a bit younger has helped a lot in coping through periods of less sleep and I don't often feel too exhausted to spend time with my firsborn either.

I know a lot of people who have been focusing on their education and career well in to their 30s and are now panicking since their biological clock is ticking. We live in a country where having children is not that expensive due to universal healthcare and cheap child care though, I guess the biggest reason for people to delay having kids here is also cultural.

And what's exactly the point of having them if you want them out of the house?

Agree! Or just don't have kids lol

If you don’t like the path your career is headed before you have kids, it’s 10x harder after you have your kid to change course.

Get your ducks in a row.

Cough cough is that you mum? She had 7 kids im 7th not good financially

Whoa. Back when my family had a farm to run, they had a shitload of kids, but I'm amazed by people who have large families nowadays. That has to be wildly expensive.

Ya usually if you have a large litter of kids it’s for economical reasons like farming. I guess the other option is to start your own tv show tho...

Luckily im one of the last 2 at home so atleast its cheaper but another child is moving back for like a month

Are you the 7th son of a 7th son?

Maby, my mums side is big according to her

My mom only had to raise one and still had to drop me off with someone else hold me^(don't really, it all worked out)

Also if you don't mind not having time to yourself anymore

For about 4 years. After that, there is time.

Well I mean, it's not all doom and gloom. Got my gf pregnant at 20, I was still too busy getting shit faced drunk on weekends and smoking weed every hour working a slightly above minimum wage job at the time.

It was just the motivation I needed to do something with my life and immediately went to school, started a good career and got married and bought a house all within 4 years. I can only imagine I'd still be living with my parents if that hadn't happened.

Not having kids young can be a mistake too, though. Even if you aren’t “ready” financially. We had ours before we were ready financially and lemme tell ya, I’m so so thankful that we did.

Someone in this thread also said that the most unhappy people they’ve met had kids before they were ready and I really want to add that there are also more deeply saddened people on the back end who can’t have kids at all because they waited too long.

You don’t get a lot of choices in life where you won’t sacrifice one thing or another.

Which would mean no one would ever have kids..

Which would be good for society. A sharp dropoff of population for a few generations would be MASSIVELY beneficial to the human race. Quality of life would skyrocket, disease would become manageable and we'd stop destroying the earth.

The best thing you can do as a person on this earth is not have children.

I feel that if you wait till your financially "ready" you might be waiting too long in most cases, it's a tricky thing to just time out. I guess one of my fears was having kids too old and not being able to keep up with them as I age.

I'd take out being financially ready and put in -- make sure your SO is just as ready as you are, make sure they aren't just having kids to just make you happy.

Yes, although speaking as a parent, even when you're ready, you're not ready. You're never ready, and if you wait until you feel like you're fully ready, you'll never do anything. But there is a huge difference between being really ready to commit to not being ready, and not even being ready for that.

Nobody is ever fully ready to have kids, but yeah don't take the risk before you're okay with the potential outcome.

Good advice but if we all followed it humans would probably die out.

Nah I’m sure there’s enough people who have their shit together to keep us all going

Time is also a big one. You might be mentally, emotionally and financially stable, you want kids... but do you have time? Do you really think you can sacrifice whatever time you got left after work for hobbies, house maintenance, relaxation, etc to make sure your kids have enough attention dedicated to them?

You cannot expect one parent to dedicate the her/his whole time to house chores + the kid/s while the other parent becomes a complete stranger that is only there for breakfast and dinner then goes to bed and maybe dedicates 2 hours in the weekend to try and bond with the kid or ask him what he/she is been up to.

Then you wonder where shit went wrong after they

While true for some, reddit has a bad habit of minimizing young parents. I always feel like it is a very disconnected to reality comment when people say this, and it belittles young families.

Nobody is saying that people are incapable of being ready to be parents in their 20s

Pretty sure some people in this thread are definitely saying that.

Devil’s advocate: if you want children it’s not terrible to have children a little earlier than planned. It’s easier to take care of young children and work when you have energy, are healthy, and have healthy parents that may be able to help in child rearing. You also aren’t sacrificing as much in your career as you might if you were a bit more established (traveling to conferences may be hard if you have a baby, but fine if your teenager kids can stay home alone). College/grad school schedules may be more flexible than the traditional 9-5 too, which can help in planning out how to best take care of your kids.

I know plenty of people who started having kids in their 30s after they had all their ducks in a row, but they are sacrificing the exponential growth period of their careers rather than the slow trudge at the beginning. They have less energy to balance both work and children. And the grandparents may not be able to help out because they are aging or worse, deceased.

There’s also the sadness of infertility problems.

Tl;dr: Kids will fuck you up emotionally, mentally, and financially anyways. Don’t discount how much easier it is to deal with it/recover from it while you are young, healthy, and not as established rather than when you are older and have a exponentially growing career.

I'm so fucking pleased my long-term girlfriend and I agreed early on that kids are entirely our of the picture and will stay that way till we reassess in our 30s

I think financially is overstated. After all, you should increase your income as you improve in your career.

Honestly this probably precludes a vast majority of people in their 20's, bit I know this is an unpopular opinion.

I want kids but I feel like I’ll never be financially ready. Kids are expensive.

so...never?

Well hopefully you're ready one day haha.

But doing it with the wrong person is a life-killer.

Sometimes doing it with the right person is also a life-killer since people can change overtime

Waiting to have kids till your 40 and than killing yourself becomes nobody wants to have kids with you anymore

Adoption's always an option is you just want kids

Implying adopting kids when your 40 and on your own isn’t a bad idea

Financially is easier than you think as long as you seek help from the state.

I would rather not be depending on the state for the next few decades to raise my kids but maybe that's just me.

you never are emotionally and mentally ready for a kid. Everything people tell you is going to be 10 times worse. You learn on the spot.

Ultimate truth

no one’s ready

I disagree. There are a lot of things you can do to 'prepare' yourself to have kids. Having a stable/decent paying job, building a nice home life etc are great steps to take in advance rather than being broke and knocking up someone on a random night

I disagree

You did not actually disagree, though.

With kids everyone prepares and prepares and they’re still never ready. Anyone with a decent paying job and a house who says they’re ready for kids is delusional.

Now if we are just saying “ready as they can be”, then we are getting into a cosmic question that we are not prepared to answer for others.

Even the idea that you can prepare....I just don’t know about that anymore. I’ve seen as many badly-raised middle class and rich kids as I’ve seen dirt poor. I’ve seen parents who go through years of therapy before having kids still raise bad kids and I’ve seen addicts raise upstanding citizens.

The fact is, most decent paying situations are completely incompatible with having a young family.

I’m not saying people should not try to prepare, I’m just saying that producing humans is not like any other task you’ve prepared for and it will beguile you no matter what. Parents who don’t accept this reality are in real danger.

You will never really be ready for having kids, but you can be more prepared. Don’t keep putting it off until you’re ‘ready’ though as it’ll never happen.

Finances sure make things easier, but kids are born every day to relatively poor people that turn out just fine. I myself was born to an 18 year old mother living alone in a bedsit with not a penny to her name and here I am comfortable 32 years later about to have my own kid.

More than anything besides basic human needs, a child needs love, care and time spent with them. You can have all the money in the world and still be a terrible parent.

I agree, but at the same time I am someone who put career first and now I can't have a family because I waited so long and a big part of me regrets that. Sometimes you have to take a plunge even when you aren't perfectly ready. Time waits for no one.

Similar situation but I at least want to get into my actual career before I have kids

My wife (who also has a professional career) and I are currently in the process of adopting a child, but I won’t lie it doesn’t sooth the sting of regret at the missed opportunity to have a biological family of our own. But those are the breaks, and all we can do is live and die with the choices we have made.

The flipside to this is being completely ready and still waiting until your 30s. Absolutely the bigger problem is people rushing it, but in certain circles (well-educated, urban professionals) the opposite is becoming a problem: in their quest for the "right time", stable couples are waiting until their mid to late thirties to even start trying for kids.

Fair enough -- some couples are on the fence. But others have always known they wanted a family, and yet they're willing to gamble with increased chances of infertility, miscarriage, ectopic pregnancies, difficult births, etc.

I'm seeing this in my peer group. It takes me back to advice an older cousin gave me when he was nearly 40 and raising a toddler with his wife of a similar age. He said "If you're sure, have them younger -- you may have less money but you'll have so much more time and energy". He didn't mean to have them irresponsibly early -- more like late 20s or thereabouts.

I know it's difficult, especially for career-minded women. Our society doesn't make it easy. Plus there is a certain individualistic mantra that prevails these days, where everyone has to travel the world, find themselves, and do x, y, z before they even contemplate a family. But if you 100% want a family, are committed to a partner who feels the same, and enjoy a steady income, delaying it indefinitely just isn't smart. Especially if you want more than one kid.

(To clarify, I live in Europe where birthrates are lower than in the U.S. and elsewhere, and people marry and have kids later on the whole. Still, the generational trends are drastic: it was normal for our parents to start having kids in their 20s; now in my peer group and extended family it is almost weird to have them in your 20s.)

You're right. Not being ready in any of these aspects is a problem. They all fall back onto each other. Don't ask me how you're supposed to know you're "ready" though.

Source: has two kids and one on the way.

Some people never get ready.

You just have to suck it up.

Whining that you or your partner or both were not ready won’t help.

My dad’s 53.

And he is cold and distant.

I have decided to just deal with it.

You're never all those things.

You're never ready. Dive in.

This is absolutely true. My husband is a recovering alcoholic, and generally not a warm, patient person. I love him despite that and he enjoys having me around, but I legitimately don’t think he has the paternal nature to be a dad. All my friends and family are always saying things like “oh just have one, he’ll learn to love being a dad” and I think, SERIOUSLY? Who would take a gamble like having a baby with a man you don’t believe would be a good father?

oh just have one, he’ll learn to love being a dad” and I think, SERIOUSLY? Who would take a gamble like having a baby with a man you don’t believe would be a good father?

Because these people don't have to deal with the consequences if you have kids. It's like people who want you to do drugs or drink. They're not doing it because it's in your best interest. They think it's a bit of fun or they're people who have kids but are secretly unhappy and want to drag you into their world. Don't underestimate people wanting to do this.

But do you enjoy having him around?

Would make more sense to italicise the 'you' here.

Fair point, or both.

Yes, I really do. The thing is I’m a very introverted person myself, so I’m genuinely happy to have a partner who doesn’t want to shower me with attention from the time I get home from work until I go to bed. Of course we say hello when I get home and have dinner together and sleep in the same bed, but I prefer to be mostly left alone. And he prefers that he can mostly leave me alone. But you know what isn’t going to fly? A toddler who wants to play with him 24/7. Way too needy. Not to say that I would mind having a baby, but it’s not fair to that child to be born when I know full well that my husband would resent it.

You're smart.

Life would change, and he might decide he didn't like the change and the new you that is now a mother, and piss off.

I think it's great you're thinking rationally about it but I'm curious - why be married if there's no kids in the plans?

Why not be married without kids in the plans?

I think they get married for the same reasons as someone with kids. For love, for the commitment to their partner. Legally and formally.

I've been with my wife for 7 years. We've discussed it a number of times, and come to the conclusion that we don't want kids, likely ever. We have our reasons, whether or not they'd mean anything to anyone else.

Some people just choose not to have them, and that's ok. I don't feel that that is the point of marriage, they are two very separate things.

Absolutely. Some people find it hard to accept that others do not want to have children for some reason.

I don't give a shit if people decide to not have children. The question is why get married if you won't. That's literally the point of marriage.

Is that what you've been taught?

Marriage is different things for different people. A formal commitment, a licence to fuck, a financial decision, or just something to do. Many reasons to marry, many reasons to divorce too.

I'm not religious in the slightest and I'm married. Just something that felt right for me and wife after 10 years of being together. It's a good excuse for a party that's for sure.

Of people have their own reasons. That's why I was asking that person in particular.

Enjoy being a dumbass sir.

Bit of projection there. I do value my life and opinions on my internet like points so if you could not downvote I would appreciate it.

i have to I'm afraid, i know it hurts.

1 dislike = 1 lost social status. How can I ever make everyone like me???

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Of course it makes sense. There's literally no reason to marry someone if you don't plan on having children. You can live with whoever you want, being married doesn't change that.

[deleted]

Great arguments from someone I wasn't even asking the question to.

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Yeah, karma means absolutely nothing to me. I do have an open mind. That's why I like arguments and not ad hominem attacks. Have a good one!

I’m genuinely curious why you think people get married to have children? I mean, I plan on having children some day but I didn’t get married because I want kids, it will just be another step in our life together when we are both ready.

Mum? Is that you?

Shit , this is actually my life right now. I was in a pretty toxic relationship with a girl who I ended up getting pregnant. She stupidly believed that keeping the baby would somehow magically make our relationship into some fairytale story. Here we are now with an 11 month old child and the same (if not worse) unstable relationship. The shittiest part about the whole thing is not knowing when to call the relationship quits. Don’t do it kids.

Don't "stay together for the kid" but definitely make sure you make an active effort if you want to stay in the kid's life. You may be missing out on the chance of being with the right person and moving on with your life.

I'd argue it shouldn't even be a "decision". if he is the father, he should stay in the child's life. it's his child, after all.

Damn, dude. This is my nightmare. Knocking up one of these Tinder girls would literally suck the life force out of me.

I hope it turns out for what's best for the kid. Best of luck.

My sister got married to a guy with no ambition or goals. I think she thought he would make himself better after the wedding. When that didn't happen, she probably figured fatherhood would do it. It didn't. now they're divorcing and my nephew is from a broken home at the age of 3. I love that kid, but I seriously fear for his future because neither of his parents make good decisions.

My sister had a kid senior year of high school, she got her shit together for 4 years, had met a guy and they were to be married, she had a kid, one year later (and some) she just up and goes, leaving a great guy and her kids with little to no plan. I guess she didn't like him much anymore and tried saving it by having that second kid. She just took off, he comes to her with a lawyer and says "you get weekends if you sign" and she just signs not thinking she had a choice.

Still pretty fresh for me and my parents. Lesson learned for me.

My parents always said:

"A man will marry a woman for who they are now, a woman will marry a man for who they hope they can be."

Problem is, people don't change.

That's the worst part. My sister was close to getting herself turned around. She only had another year of school before she could teach, and she had a stable job at the time of the wedding. Two years later she quit her job to be a stay at home mom, and she didn't realize how expensive get lifestyle was compared to her income.

although as a recent reddit thread about people with differing approaches regarding ambition (I think it was in /r/AdviceAnimals?) showed, many men are no strangers to this hope as well.

That's funny because your "problem is" comment completely contradicts the point of the saying.

The actual idea behind the saying is that men expect women to stay the same, but they don't. Women expect men to change, but they don't.

To be honest I don't really like the existence of that saying. I believe in it, but it makes me afraid of getting into committed relationships (I'm a guy).

Or having kids to try to save a relationship

Yeah for me it’s got to be having kids.

I see a lot of posts in this thread about OD’ing on heroin and killing people while driving drunk. Of course those things are awful, but I don’t know anyone like that.

I do however know a TON of people that had kids in their early 20’s with some person they were with for like two years.

Super common and super awful.

Have kids when you’re a stable, independent adult. Not before.

We live in a rural area ─ they don't wait til 20, and they probably haven't been with the guy two years.

A friend in HS said she wasn't going to get knocked up like her sister did. That didn't last a year, but maybe she just meant before graduation, she did make it that long.

This is a very common occurrence in my area as well. It’s sad. Most of the mothers around here had their child before or around age 18 with someone who isn’t mentally or financially stable and they’ve only been dating for a couple months

Or even having a child at all. If you don't feel a deep desire for it, don't let someone just talk you into it because you're with them. If you aren't itching to have kids and they really are, you may not be right for each other. Chances are everyone, especially the child will suffer from this decision.

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The wrong person does sound like a bandname

Or having a child just because you think you should/have to.

I live in New Mexico. Single mother wasteland out here.

I had a good laugh. Central Texas isn't much different.

Almost got roped into this one, girl says she loved me blah blah, let's buy a house have a kid, you need a better job, why haven't you applied anywhere, your mom calls too much, your not doing it right. Really dodged a bullet there. Sex was good though.

sex was good thou

That's where many people's compatibility list start and end. Gotta give it to evolution for keeping our population strong 🍆🌋

The volcano emoji tho 😂😂😂😂

90% of every relationship has been based on sex. Kinda sad

She got anymore rope?

or in some cases, just having children. God, i love my kids, but I do not like my kids. They really suck up the best 20 years of your life and are a constant drain on your energy and happiness

Thank you very much for your honesty.

It'd be great if you could choose what kind of kid you get, but you can only choose what kind of parent you are. The kids are the luck of the draw. It's really awful if they end up as a constant drain on happiness.

I got lucky. After my first, everyone asked when I was going to have another, but I won the lottery with my son.

I had him at 21 within the confines of an abusive relationship (long story short, was pretty much blackmailed into not aborting,) left the dad just before my son was 2.

However, my son is phenomenal! He brightens my life every day, is polite, intelligent, independent, logical, doesn't get on my nerves, is really fun and interesting to be around, and I'm so proud of him with everything he puts his effort into. He is a source of happiness when he doesn't even mean to be. And he's like a mini-me, but better - more creative, more cleanly, more intuitive.

(My son is 6 now - I ended up emotionally and financially stable. I am in a well-paid, rewarding career. I am 4 years into a relationship with a wonderful person that I never get tired of and we're due to be married soon.**)

**This is a success story. Don't assume that having a kid = success story because I am likely the exception.

May I ask what career

I do office-level IT troubleshooting for the provincial government.

i cant believe this isnt higher. the most unhappy people i know have kids they weren't ready for.

Friend is going through this. She didn't mean to get pregnant but it happened and his response was 'get an abortion or I'll make your life hell'. She was lead to believe they were dating but found out later she was just one of many. That kind of guy.

Come later in the year I think he is going to learn what it means to have to pay child support.

Why isn't she aborting? She's going to have a harsh surprise if she thinks she'll get any child support without long drawn out court battles.

Well child support isn't the reason you have a kid so that shouldn't be a factor...

But not everyone believes in abortion as a viable option.

I don't think the comment was saying that's why she was having it. More like why would you choose to have a baby with that? Oh and lol about your lil revenge comment there, she's not gunna get shit from this PoS.

Well child support isn't the reason you have a kid so that shouldn't be a factor...

you'd be surprised

Well I mean for anyone who has 2 brain cells and also know how much a child costs to raise.

I love how casually you suggest that as if it's an easy decision to kill your unborn child.

For some, it is. Some of us believe abortion is extremely moral as life is cold, hard, and brutal. Rich or poor, pretty or ugly, you will get sick in life, you will suffer, you’re at risk of rape and war, and you live in a fucked up world. Most humans are also poor and I believe this makes abortion a mercy killing. I don’t mind others’ beliefs on life and abortion, go ahead and do what you want, but please don’t try to stop me or project your beliefs about life onto others, as if they are universal. Since the unborn child can not speak for itself, we can assume some wouldn’t want to be born and some would, so the person who makes the decision about abortion is the person who has to carry the pregnancy and give birth.

I guess my comments were taken the wrong way. I didn't meant to promote a pro-life agenda. I was just saying, for most people, it's a hard decision even if it's definitely the right one.

Ya I can see you’re just trying to empathize but it read like some pro-life comments you see online. I’m sure it is hard for some, for a majority, I don’t know. Again, we can’t project our beliefs about life into others. I personally would not hesitate to get an abortion and I think it would be the best thing to do. Especially in this situation, that would be the best thing I could do as a parent to that child. But hey I’m not the parent of the child in this post. My only concerns are medical complications.

Some people also dispute the use of the term “unborn child.” Me, I actually still hold on to the belief that an embryo is a human, I just think it’s right and merciful to put it out of its misery before it’s too late. You’ll hear a lot of pro-choice people afraid to call it a “child” because if it’s a person, that means you are terminating a person, and some people are more afraid of death than others I guess, and say it would be reprehensible to terminate a person but not cells. I just fundamentally disagree with that position as I’m extremely supportive of mercy killing.

Or hanging with the wrong person who never wanted kids. Finally meeting the woman of your dreams, but then it's too late to have kids...

Adopt, my man. Plenty of kids out there that need a family.

Seconded. I worked with a woman who was single, older and was in the process of adopting two special needs sisters. She fostered for a while and then decided to adopt. Anyone can make a difference in a child’s life and you don’t have to have a spouse to do it.

That sucks for sure, but the follow up is that if it does happen you need to buck up and make the best of it. Having a miserable relationship with your current or ex partner makes your life exponentially more terrible when there's a kid involved. It's not easy, but if you care about your kid's mental health you need to make an effort to at least get along with their other parent. My parents hated each other but stayed married, and the constant resentment, passive aggression, and straight up screaming matches (that lasted for hours) seriously fucked my brother and me up.

Sometimes that isn't an option either. Unfortunately my sister is having a baby next month with someone who has made attempts on her life. She fell for his promises to shape up and kept the baby past the date she would have needed to abort. Once she was finally trapped he escalated a lot and she fled to another town to get away from him.

Of course only after a recent incident--partially triggered by sentiments like the one in your comment i.e. people telling her she should develop a coparenting relationship for the sake of the child--is she finally on board with getting police involved. At this point it's very late and he may well end up with partial custody due to lack of documented abuse.

That's horrible, and I hope he gets his hands chopped off, but I think we can both agree that that's atypical.

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I dunno, my wife an I intentionally chose to have our first kid at 23 so that we would be able to energetically parent and have fun/play with them. Both my parents and my wife's parents had us when they were older and never wanted to play, or go to theme parks, or do anything really. However I would bet that we are the minority because children are something we both wanted, and both wanted young. Additionally we were both right place and right time for our respective careers (combined like 55k a year which is lower median income for our area), schedule flexibility, local support system like family and friends, and savings. So if you do want kids and happen to be in the rare position that it makes sense I wouldn't rule out having kids before you're 30. And before it happens no we are not religious, part of a cult, living with parents, supported by parents, or living in a commune. We both just got lucky enough to land decent stable employment out of college that allowed us to do this. It would have been something we would have put off if the stability wasn't there.

I mean my dad has 2 kids at age 52 and even now that he's much older he's still running around to all their sports playing games with them and going to theme parks etc. So as much as your parents shaped your decision if you want something enough you'll make it happen

My parents are pushing 70 and take my brother's kids everywhere. If anything, it rejuvenated them.

Although, they say that it's so much easier when you can send them home...

this is true, my grandfather is 70 and he plays soccer with my little brother who is 7, is good for him to have something what makes him do exercise, when you stop doing exercise is when you are fucked.

Yeah, it's all dependent on situation/desire, none of this parenting stuff is a hard and fast rule

I have three kids and I’ll just say I’m so glad I did that before I turned 30. Pregnancy is eight bitches on a bitch boat, y’all. I’m quite relieved my young body took that on and now I can get back in shape and not have to worry about going through it again, older.

I'm 26, wife is 23, our son is about to turn 2. 100% planned, and couldn't be happier about it.

Good to see there's somebody else thats pro-kid on this website.

Or just, you know, having children.

How about having kids at all

My brother did this. She is bi-polar. There will be no end to his suffering.

Brutal. I'm sure he has the 1,000 yard stare down pretty well.

Yep. He is dead inside. Young love that didn't work out.

Sunday, we--my GF and I--found out that her younger (29 vs 21) friend was pregnant.

The previous week we had finally convinced her to file a TPO against her 33 year old boyfriend who beat the fuck out of her. She was raised without parents due to addiction and is in recovery herself, but met this guy who collects SSI for having one arm since the other was shot off in an "incident" and illegally sells weed in a legal state.

After she took the test, she immediately went back to him. Both my GF and her friend are quite religious, but the GF and I are all onboard for abortion or adoption at the very least. The friend is having her faith leveraged against her to keep the fetus which I think will lead to a destruction of both lives of it comes to term.

It was a rough Monday with that on the mind.

This.

Getting married to the wrong person too.

Don't have children.

Wish this one was higher up. It cost me over a decade and continued misery (and bleeds into the other warning on this list such as savings and healthy lifestyle).

This 100 percent. Read my post history.

Yup. This. Being on online dating sites I'm wondering if there is anyone over the age of 25 WITHOUT kids?

No fucking shit. It's always the hot girls too.

And they're looking for their country man. Is that what country men do? Knock you up and leave? Mmmkay

Holy couldn’t agree more. I can’t understand people who purposefully make a kid with someone they aren’t serious with. The accidental ones...well that’s up for debate. And the ones with malicious intent, I guess don’t be the guy.

My sister has a friend who is 19. She recently had a baby with her alcoholic boyfriend. She was addicted to heroin before she had the baby and continued smoking weed and cigarettes while pregnant. Her boyfriend literally encouraged her to continue this behavior since he "knew it eased her stress". All I could think was "Damn bruh, you and your child are straight fucked".

Having Children*

*Having children

Having children period. Kids are the worst.

Ok Miss Trunchbull

A very dear friend of ours is going through this exact thing...

Yep. You need to be ready to raise a child, and you need to be sure of who you're raising them with. My boyfriend (accidentally) had an almost 2 year old baby with a woman he dated out of loneliness. He loves his baby so much, but the emotional impact of having a baby with a woman he wasn't serious about is bad. They married because of her, divorced soon after, and now she's trying to take full custody and move 10 hours away. He's suffering from all this and I wish I could do more to be there for him.

Ha I did that when I was 18 , check mate

My best friend had a kid to her boyfriend, at the time, of four years. Obviously, it wasn't planned but they both thought they could get through it.

They broke up, quite badly, when the kid was about one. They've really only just sorted shit out and the kid's nearly four. They tried the relationship again, multiple times, but they can't go back to what they had pre-child. It really did not help that he was a frequent drug user and hated her family, neither of them had jobs and neither really wanted kids to begin with.

Not that this doesn’t apply in the 20s, but it applies more in the teens haha

Having children at all. Wait until you're 30 to get married and have kids, no need to rush.

Pushing 29 years old and this is still my biggest fear. Being perpetually single helps, though.

you cant have children if you never have sex with women.

(roll safe).

on another note, usually having kids before a career which is very common.

Realizing you’re a mistake and that your parents don’t love you

Sure. My gf now forbids that the granpas/grandmas see the children because of old stuff. I'm going mad

Me, currently. I thought he was the right person, though. Sadly very mistaken and blind.

1000%.......it just makes everything so much harder

Too late and I'm not even in my 20s. I beat it!

Was going to say this but more from the angle of not using contraception because it feels better! STIs and babies are not easy or temporary. And in your 20s you might be sleeping with the wrong people! Don’t get shackled to one of them because you have a kid with them.

having children. fify

Or just having a child when you think you’re financially stable, but really you’re not. Bringing a life into the world that you’re going to struggle to provide for whilst trying to provide for yourself is cruel

Getting shackled to the wrong person has always been one of my greatest fears.

On that note to all the young men out there...take control of your end of birth control responsibilities...don’t ever trust your partner to always take her birth control. It’s truly sad but I can honestly say that many children are brought in to this world by one person’s choice to control or manipulate the other. Gentlemen please bag it before you tag it until YOU are ready to be a father.

having children - period

Most of you shouldn't be parents, ever. Let alone in your 20's

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A credit card shouldn't be used as a loan, but rather an extension of your bank account. If you can't afford something, then just don't buy it. By doing this, you can always pay the full payment every month and not the minimum.

Yes exactly. A credit card is not extra money, it’s just a different way to spend your current money.

Edit: adding another comment I made below

It allows you to save your money in the future and buy now, rather than save first and buy later, but you still have to save the money!

But it's important to have access to a credit card because in an emergency it can be extra money. But we're not talking a fashion emergency, we're talking family member has a bad accident and you have to fly cross country short notice.

But then you immediately rebudget to pay off that amount before using the card for anything. Get the debt gone.

Recently paid off my credit card with my tax return. My gf asked why I didn't just make payments instead and keep the money in my account. It somehow just didn't make sense to her that I hate having debt. As of right now I have like $50 on my credit card and my car is paid off. I hate having debt. Of any kind. My goal is to buy my next car outright.

You sound ready to save for a house. Avoid getting a different car as long as you can.

actually have a plan there as well. It's quite a long ways out, but long story short, I have some land I'm going to inherit out of state that I can sell to buy my first home. As for now, I'm not saving much, and need to start getting my retirement fund set up. Going to college on the GI bill right now means I haven't even begun my career so that's a hurtle to still clear. Once I'm working in my career, find a place, hopefully get married, and go from there.

let us hope medical revolutions allow us to live into our 100s healthy and or happily robotic...

If I reach 100 I'll be happy and probably sick and tired of this world.

*Doctor, my eyes have seen the years

And the slow parade of fears without crying

Now I want to understand

I have done all that I could

To see the evil and the good without hiding

You must help me if you can

Doctor, my eyes

Tell me what is wrong

Was I unwise to leave them open for so long?

'Cause I have wandered through this world

And as each moment has unfurled

I've been waiting to awaken from these dreams

People go just where they will

I never noticed them until I got this feeling

That it's later than it seems

Doctor, my eyes

Tell me what you see

I hear their cries

Just say if it's too late for me

Doctor, my eyes

Cannot see the sky

Is this the prize

For having learned how not to cry?*

Jackson Browne

I get to see him in concert next month because a friend invited me out of the blue!

Maybe not if everyone else was living that long and still living their life. Like imagine if average human lifespan was 500 years, at 100 you'd be just getting started.

Well that would require there to be 400year old people right now for me to know people lived to 500 by the time I reach 100.

Lol good point. But I meant to point out that everything is relative, like difference between a dog dying at 15 and a human dying at 15, one has lived a good long life whereas the other's live was only just beginning.

Sure, right now 100years old is a long time but in the future, I believe 100 will eventually be elderly but expected, then middle aged, and eventually akin to young adulthood.

So the goal is to become elves.

Got it.

I am really hoping for robotic.

As bad as my body is at 40, I don't want to know how it will be at 100.

Throwing some stuff out there that's none of my business. Get your girl on the same page financially before you agree to let her have control of yours. Plenty of people are financially naive or downright dumb and financial strain is one of the number one causes of stress in marriages which ended in divorce.

Whoa, buddy. You sure you don't want to have 3 or 4 kids first?

/s

I know you're being sarcastic, but I never want kids.

You just keep getting better and better.

Beware of relying on inheritance. A lot can happen in that time frame and people in their later years can become irrational or greedy. “What do you mean gramps allowed his ‘caretakers’ to move and put his land into a reverse mortgage to pay for them all and their lavish lifestyle? You mean... there’s nothing left?!”

Oh I know, that's just plan A. Plan B is still just being financially responsible enough to afford one anyways.

Unless it's used and you have the cash for it to get rid of your current payment.

Seems strange to assume that buying a house is on everyones agenda.

Good point. I guess I'm projecting my own goals on to others.

Buying a house is typically a very good investment, even keeping in mind the periodic crashing of the housing market.

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Irregardless

This isn't a word.

it's presumptuous to tell someone to save for a house. Many people would rather start a business, emigrate, study etc. There are a million different paths in life.

It's not presumptuous, it's advice.

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It is a word though admittedly a nonstandard one

Hah what does this even mean? "Irregardless" is meaningless.

I suggest you do some research next time you try to argue over grammar.

And what, exactly, is the definition of "irregardless"?

It certainly is advice, but certainly not good advice to give to someone whose circumstances you know absolutely nothing about.

Except for the fact that they make a priority of budgeting and paying their debts off. You know, a couple good habits to develop before buying a house.

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It's a combination of irrespective and regardless.

That's a post hoc explanation given when people rightly point out that it's a meaningless word.

>Budgeting and paying your debts off does not equal buying a house.

I never said they did, just that they're two good habits to have before buying a house.

>I can assume that you bought your house and probably regret the constraint if now holds over you but that doesn't mean you should trick other people into making the same boring life decisions you did.

I wasn't the one who suggested they buy a house. But goodness, some big assumptions from you about my life. Are you cranky today?

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Edit: A quick scan of your recent posts show me you're an argumentative neckbeard who [play's] Warhammer. I wouldn't waste time talking to you in real life so I won't bother doing so here. If being a jerk online makes you feel better about having no friends and never getting laid then fine, but I'm not going to be involved.

Look at how upset you are at being called out over using a nonsense word. I also went ahead and highlighted yet another grammatical mistake from you, seems like you're not very good at writing.

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Ignoring everything I said...

Like what?

> looks like I struck a nerve.

Remember that you're the one accusing me of a boring life because I said buying a house might not be a bad investment for someone with good personal finances. And then you had to dig through my post history for ammo before accusing me of having no friends and never getting laid. But you didn't even do a good job of that because the most recent posts I've created are about my son.

> As a pilot I don't usually need to double check spelling etc as much as a keyboard warrior like you would.

looks like I struck a nerve.

[deleted]

Haha absolutely pathetic. No wonder you're a pilot, you needed a job where 95% of the thinking was done for you.

[deleted]

Now whose pathetic.

I dunno dude, you're the one making fun of a baby.

> Also, that's an easy retort but not many have the composure to do what we do.

I agree, having a job where literally all you do is push a button and then sit for several hours while all the work does itself would make me put a gun in my mouth. But hey I'm sure flying near-mothballed turboprops for Regional Shithole Air making $30k a year is real prestigious! Sounds way more exciting than buying a house and having a family!

[deleted]

I never said I was talking about your kid. Sounds like you noticed it too.

Who said I was referring to my kid? You're still the one talking shit about a baby because you're extremely mad I put you on suicide watch over your embarrassment of a life. You're right, I couldn't be you, I'd have blown my brains out already! But hey, you enjoy the 50 year old flight attendent and Folger's coffee brewed in a moldy percolator. You earned it buddy!

[deleted]

It's attendant fyi

Oh man I must've really struck a nerve by correcting irregardless, that's funny as hell.

[deleted]

Haha did you post this through tears? Jesus man you couldn't handle a little banter? I thought you Euros were supposed to be witty.

[deleted]

Better looking and more intelligent, nobody ever said we were wittier.

Well this was almost clever, better luck next time dude.

The way my husband pointed out, you don’t really have expendable income if you have credit card debt. It took me a very long time to understand this. I, too, had paid off my credit card debt with my tax refund. It’s nice to have peace of mind and a paid off car. Only real “debt” I don’t mind paying in increments is student debt. It doesn’t go against your credit.

Edit: one word

Right. I have a co-worker who preaches financial discipline to everyone, and how we should be saving more.

Fine, decent advice, except this guy has ~$10k in credit card debt, and maybe that again in savings. He couldn't understand he'd be far better just paying that off and stopping with the 20% interest payments every month

Having debt is good for your credit. Provided you never miss payments and those payments can be paid off comfortably with your current income.

You don't need to carry a balance to get good credit. Being active on the account (by using the card) tends to be plenty.

Can we discuss just how screwed up that all is? As someone who didnt grow up in the States-it always seems insane to me that a system exists that somehow makes it POSITIVE to stay in debt......

You're misunderstanding. There are tiers of debt that are good and bad.

Say you have 10,000 dollars in credit in total available to you. You've used 185 dollars. That's a good place to be in, because it's a low percentage and shows you can use credit responsibly. On the other hand, if you had used 6500, that's a bad percentage because it means you're spending beyond your means.

There are like 5 ranges that affect your credit differently. Month-to-month, 0 to 10% usage is excellent for example and has a strong positive impact. 10 to 25 is good, but not excellent, and has a weak positive impact. I can't remember the other tiers, but they start to hurt your credit more and more the higher the % is.

Carrying no balance is always best, but you do have to have a history of use with your accounts.

Student debt is weird because it's usually huge, and you realistically can't pay it off immediately.

I know/knew most of that-(thanks for the time you took to explain that much-you actually cleared 1 or 2 points up for me) I understand the point of having a decent credit score. My personal view is that NO debt is even better. (I prefer to use a debit card if I have to use anything.) I just find it insane how prevalent/required a credit card/score has become. I understand the concept and how it gets used to show good financial decision making. But can we still agree that its still pretty insane that its 'better' to deliberately put yourself into a small debt (using a credit card) and then paying that debt off-even though I had the money in the first place!

A credit card should be seen as just a different way to spend money you already have.

A lot of people don't look at it that way. But if you have a credit card with a rewards program, you can spend your money and get money back. Just don't spend more than you have in the bank, and you're not going to have a problem.

Like I said, that's when I start to feel like something weird is going on-rewards programs work. Especially for money you need to spend anyways, im talking about cases like buying a car, or house, etc. Where they run a credit check before giving you your rates-its far more affordable if you have a good credit score-which you can usually develop by (for example) buying small things with credit and then immediately pay it off-it seems like a system that's designed to trap people who don't understand it

> it seems like a system that's designed to trap people who don't understand it

That's because that's exactly what it is.

Like I said above-and thats why I feel like the system has gone more than a little insane

And don't forget that this is *better* than it used to be too. Usury only relatively recently became illegal.

I'd say it makes sense that you have to show your responsibility will small debts to get better rates on large, long term debts.

If you've never been in debt before there is a big question of if you can handle the personal financial responsibility.

Most people make some bad choices with their first credit card.

Not arguing that-and ive made plenty of mistakes. I still just think the whole credit/debt system has gone insane. Especially lately

The calculation is dead simple - which number is higher: the interest your credit card bill accrues or the interest your bank account accrues? Tell her this and she should understand.

And if the answer is "My bank account", please let us know both your CC provider and your bank, because I want in.

And isn’t the interest rate on a credit card like super high? Like 16-20%? How does it make sense at all to not pay the bill if you have the money available?

Transfer any balance to a 0% APR card if you ever need to carry a balance

I have never needed to do that, as I always pay off my credit card bills in full. However, if ever I the event I would need to, how would I go about doing it? Let's say I have an Amex card with $6000 on it. Can I transfer it to a Case card that has 0% interest and over $6k limit? Or can it only be transferred to another Amex card? I'm assuming there's different rules and for transferring balances per card.

Well yea that would work depending on the card provider’s term. I have a nevey fed credit card sitting at 2k. Slow paying it off(emergency move ie: abusive parent) I opened a Amex card recently and just transferred it over for the 0% apr. while the navy fed card was only 5% it was still interest so I shopped around for another option. It was fairly easy and I assume most cards have something similar.

It's more like you have a balance on Card A with Bank A. Bank B wants to make interest off of you, so they give you Card B and some checks that work like any other check except it uses the card as a money source. So you write a check to Bank A for the payoff balance of Card A. Now you have that same amount of dollars indebted to Card/Bank B instead.

The company doesn't matter. If you have good credit and are carrying a balance most of the time they will flood your mailbox with offers. I'm sure you could call any of you card companies too. The catch is that they will charge a transfer fee. It's normally like 3% or $X min. Transferring is done by either a check they send you or online by the card number.

They normally will tack on an extra 3% of balance to transfer tho so have to consider that

You can transfer from pretty much any card to any other card. I'm not aware of any restrictions. It's pretty common for people who are paying off debt to open new cards to get introductory 0% APR every twelve months or so and keep transferring so as to never pay interest

I have a few credit cards that I am paying off right now, but back in 2014 I was working a lot and JUST made the last payment on my BoA card. I was so proud of myself, it was the first debt I had ever paid off completely. I was planning on only using it to buy gas or something, to keep it low and help rebuild my credit.
Less than a month after paying it off (so not even a complete bill cycle) they close the account down due to “non use”. I was so mad, especially since my credit is shitty enough that I couldn’t get another card to replace that.

Unless you are independently wealthy (or an expert at flipping houses, in which case you will soon be independently wealthy), one debt you'll carry for a long time is a house. Very few people have the ability to buy a house outright. Other than that, though, you've got the right idea. I never keep a balance on a credit card for long enough to owe any interest, because not only do I hate owing money, I hate paying the exorbitant interest rates credit cards charge if you keep a balance on them. Your girlfriend is probably paying a bunch of interest on hers and doesn't realize it.

Yeah I don't care too much about owing people money, but I sure as hell care a shit ton about paying 25% to U.S. Bank!

I have a plan for affording a house. My parents have been spending their retirement buying properties. One of which is reserved for me. It's out of state however so it's going to be selling that to fund a home for me. Or potentially rent it out to pay the morgage on an actual home.

As for getting a home loan, Ive got perfect credit and have other things Ive made constant payments on. Gas, elect, rent, car loan, phone. Call me crazy but what does a credit card balance show that paying all those every month for 7 years doesnt?

As for getting a home loan, Ive got perfect credit and have other things Ive made constant payments on. Gas, elect, rent, car loan, phone. Call me crazy but what does a credit card balance show that paying all those every month for 7 years doesnt?

Sounds like you won't have any trouble getting a home loan. Consistently paying all your bills on time and never owing interest on credit card purchases is a great way to get an excellent credit rating.

Good luck, though I don't think you'll need it. Seems like you've got a good financial head on your shoulders.

Can’t stand debt. I pay off my card every two weeks, sometimes once a week. I’m in a position where I only have a credit card for the benefits, I’ve budgeted for a long time and only lived with a debit card until I felt comfortable getting a line of credit so I effectively just treat my credit card like a debit card. Debitize is great for this.

Yup, every paycheck my card gets paid off, or maybe I'll leave a $50 balance until the statement date so it posts usage to the credit bureaus and pay that off the next day. Then use the cash back to pay for Christmas presents and such so I don't have to budget extra for that.

Anyone not paying off the credit card in full every month shouldn't be using a credit card. You're just paying more for very little benefit.
At that point it's a loan (and a really shitty one with a fairly high rate).

If you ask someone "would you take out a loan and repay it over a year to buy that dress or stereo?" they would probably say No.
But for some reason, they're perfectly happy to do exactly that with a credit card.

I mean it's OK once or twice if you have a tough month or something but that interest stacks up bloody quickly (especially considering the minimum repayments are tiny compared to the total bill).

Disclaimer, I'm in Australia. Our credit cards, repayments and rates might be different to the US.

When at college, whenever one of the roommates would get serious about a gal he was dating, one of us would administer the "test".

We'd pull out a credit card, and simply ask "Is this money?".

My future wife gave the best response of all of them. "No. That's debt."

One gal still didn't understand it after it had been explained several times.

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Lmao I had the exact same thought. Like if someone did that to me I'd be like wtf are you talking about ? It's a credit card what you mean is that money?

Yeah if you didn't phrase it "Is this money or debt?" I'd look at you like ur stupid.

This happened. Am dumb girl.

Sounds gay af

I wish I had thought like this in my 20s. Keep it up!

but not having that credit line is what is keeping me from having great credit. Also,applying for said card will hurt me with the credit check. Should i take the hit with the credit check and move forward with having more credit,paying it off asap?

The hit to your score for applying for a card will be quite minor. If you pay off your card each month, your score will be back up and even higher in a couple months.

When was the last time you actually checked your credit score? Depending on what you do it can be quite high.

Almost any constant bill being paid can be applied to your credit score.

Also many companies will give you an "in house" credit score. Say youve been at the same bank or with the same phone company etc. They can give you an effective credit score. I had a prepaid phone with verizon that I put minutes on every month. When I went to get on a contract they didnt even check my credit like they usually would because their policy gives you "perfect credit" if youve been with them for like 6months. This was pretty helpful as at the time I had income but literally no credit.

I’m with you except I started in a $36k hole because I decided to get a degree at a four year university and scholarships + parents only covered about 2/3 the total cost. Debt sucks and I don’t know how people live their lives with it! I want to get this monkey off my back so I feel truly free to do anything I want.

Looking at debt that way can actually be detrimental in the long run. If your employer offers a match to a Roth / 401(k), it is better to max out the contributions to that first since you have a 50-100% or so return on investment on that money. Also, having a large nest egg in lieu of paying off student loan debt faster makes a lot of sense in terms of financial security when you consider that the amount paid towards student loans can be increased or decreased at any time, and can be decreased to zero if you lose your job. Rent and other expenses can't be decreased to zero.

I never said I wasn't saving :)

True, you never said that!

She's gotta be pretty dumb not realizing that making minimum payments will in the end have you pay far more than just paying it off in one go will.

She's not the best with money. I'm working on it. Her family is pretty off the grid so they don't really understand modern finances and didn't really teach her right.

If your GF is serious good luck with that one. I couldn't imagine if my wife was fiscally irresponsible. I know tons of people who have had to put there wives or husbands on a allowance to prevent them from spending all the money and it didn't make anyone happy.

Yeah her family is pretty off the grid. So her parents never really taught her how to manage finances because they don't really know. Then she married a military guy who made enough she didnt have to worry, after she divorced him she ended up dating another guy who made enough she didn't have to worry. So now she's been handling it herself for about a year and a half. So she's still got a bit to learn. I've been teaching her slowly.

100% agree on access to credit as an emergency fund. HELOCs work really well in that regard.

With regards to auto financing, sometimes it might make sense to take a low interest loan if you can out-earn the interest with an alternative investment.

I have two examples.

1) a few cars ago I had enough to pay outright for my purchase, a trd off-road Tacoma. I ended up taking the .9% financing and putting the lump into a CD. Came out a bit ahead.

2) I needed a non-truck vehicle to drive clients around in. Was going to pay cash, but ended up leasing, yes leasing. Found a demo car, not yet titled, that the dealer was willing to sell waaaay below msrp to move it. Once price was agreed upon it was a matter of semantics to convert it to a cap cost on a lease. I further gave them a 2600 fully refundable security deposit to buy down the money factor. All in all leased an 85k car for 310/mo.

I guess my point is debt is just a tool that can be really beneficial if weilded responsibly.

Here's the thing though - you did keep the money in your account. By using the positive balance in your bank account to pay off the credit card debt, what you've done is basically just transfer your money from one account where it is represented by a positive integer to one where it is represented as a negative integer. That money isn't "gone" when you use it to pay down credit card debt - because now you have the line of credit available when you need it, and you aren't accruing interest charges. You basically just moved your money from an account that wasn't doing anything to an account that is actively saving you interest every single month. In effect, you're wealthier now than you were before you paid off the credit card, it's just that the wealth isn't in the form of cash.

Not having any loans isn’t the best though. Sometimes loans are good (If you have the money to already pay off the car.) They allow you to invest the money you don’t have to pay to the loan and allow you to pay it off whilst letting your other cash grow.

Growing up my parents had paid off everything but the house and I never once saw them use a credit card. When Mom got a new van, it was paid for in full. Because of this, I genuinely can not comprehend using money you don't have. Or why you would make car payments. My roommate's family has bought three new cars in a year and she tells me about their car payments and my mind is blown.

(I do understand you should use credit cards to build credit and all that nonsense but still)

Debt is good, but only as an investment tool.

For example, I'm a stock trader. My average monthly return for 2015-18 was ~6%. Alternatively my bank's mutual funds (minus fees) can probably net 3%. Even CDs are like 1-1.5%.

If I were getting a van, and the total cost of financing was lower than my returns (Especially now with dealers offering 0% APR and even cashback), I'd do it even if I could pay it full in cash. Because that money I'd otherwise put into the dealer's pockets now could make me more money before I drop it it in their pockets later. Time value of money is a real concept (i.e. a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.)

Credit card debt is dumb because interest rates are so high. You'd be hardpressed to make returns that justify them.

Just food for though: Lease - cars are always depreciating and never a winning proposition

You are obviously paying for the depreciation regardless or the leasing company would go bankrupt.

Leasing is strictly a worse financial proposition than buying a car every single time...

Add up your monthly payments over 60 months and all that cash you give them at signing... Congratulations, you just paid 70-90% of a car and you have nothing to show for it.

If you had bought a car, you could either continue to drive it for years to come, or even just turning around and selling it puts you in a way better position than leasing.

A friend of mine leases a new car every year. He gets to drive the latest model, and because it has no extra features and is standard he only has to pay $88 biweekly. The dealership covers repairs since it's a lease, all he has to worry about is oil changes. If you find the right lease you can certainly save some dough!

I'd personally rather own a car a few years older with a feature package than lease brand new car with no features. While some things do become standard a few years later a lot of standard packages even in brand new vehicles are pretty lackluster.

lol AC isn't included. It's pretty lackluster.

However for the price, the warranty, and the fact that it's the latest model... it's still a good deal.

Ahh damn. No AC is a deal breaker for me these days. Owned 1 car without it and ill never go back.

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Your numbers are way off m8. it's more like just over 2k per year

What dealership gives you a whip for $170 a month lol that's less than my gym membership

Where do you go to the gym that costs that much?

Local brazilian jiu jitsu gym

It's pretty cheap I know

Well, you did get to use the car for 60 months. Not that I disagree with your main point, mind you.

Not saying you’re wrong (buying is generally better than leasing), but I can’t agree that’s true in every single case. One, there’s likely to be corner cases where incredibly favorable terms for a lease make it cheaper than buying & selling that car over the same period of time (especially in cases where someone will only need the car there for a couple years). Two, the concept of ‘Time Value of Money’ exists. Say the person leasing the car has the cash up-front, but is able to earn a better return on that money than the cost of interest- it would definitely be worth looking into a lease with option to purchase at the end.

Might depend on the country but my understanding is that leasing is only worth it financially if you can salary sacrifice it and it knocks you down a tax bracket.

In a progressive tax system, only the money you make over that bracket gets taxed at that amount, not your entire salary.

Im'm not getting a new car if that's what you're thinking. we're talking a $5k max vehicle.

I get that, 100%- it’s all dependent on where you are in life, I’ve owned a $700 car that lasted me over a year and several others not far from that were absolutely wonderful cars and worth every penny but at the same time I owned a “reliable” newer car that had a ton of problems; just wanted to point out leases are pretty vialble, I got a 2017 accord, nothing fun or flashy by any means but my payment is $199 a month (before insurance). Again, totally relative to where each person is in life. And you bet your ass I would still have my junky ass VW back in the day, that car was awesome, it’s just dependent on what you need and where you are in your life at the moment

Tell me more about how great it is having to pay for the car and then having to pay more when you inevitably go over your miniscule amount of allotted miles and then in the end have to give it back and leave with nothing to show for it.

My parents leased vehicles for a while. They never had any issue with this. Heck we even took the leased vehicle on road trips and lived in the country so it was a decent commute to get around.

It's basically the same as renting an apartment. And depending on your timelines can be a good option. Besides any new car you buy is going to lose tremendous value anyways. Figure between $5-$10k as soon as it leaves the lot. A lease costing you about the same as a car payment but on only a 2 year commitment? Sure you paid them $2500. But if you tried to sell that car youd have lost substantially more.

That said leasing is definitely not for the financially unstable. But it has it's uses.

Ok guys- keep on going, all I said is that it has its plus and downs, but if you blindly believe that driving your shit bucket(which as I said I’ve done for many many years) for years at a time “without any cost” is really true and accurate then go on. You do you

Or buy something that is already at the bottom of the depreciation curve, used. There are plenty of prefectly good 2015 models that are cheap with low miles and you can still warranty. That way you don't have to worry about taking the bus to work once a week because that great lease only let's you put 12,000 miles on that car a year.

In what world do you think leasing is not as expensive as buying?

Depreciation, maintenance, headache. I got a Honda. Show me where I would get a brand new car and not “depreciate” the $8k I’ll be paying in leases over 3 years and come out ahead

The ownership of a car doesn't reward itself in three years. Of course you're in the red for those first few years due to immediate depreciation. The reward comes in the 3-6 year range when the amount owed sinks below the value of the car, and it becomes an asset. From then on, the longer you have the car, the more money you're saving in comparison to a lease. Then after that 6 year point, you've paid it off and the only payments you're making are repairs, which are certainly less than the cost of a monthly lease payment.

Yeah I spent way too much on my current (first) vehicle, which I have never had trouble paying for, but I still wouldn't do again. However, i have been making the payments for nearly 4 years and it's now worth about $15k more than I owe. I could total it tomorrow and walk away with a used Civic and enough money to cover the hospital bill for my newborn boy and a few percent down on a house.

Holy crap. "Hospital bill for newborn boy." Seeing things like this really make me appreciate being Canadian.

They tell us 'muricans to save up at least 10k for a birth :|

That's about what it's been to be honest. 4k during the pregnancy for prenatal care and I'm expecting something in that range for the delivery as well

I can't even imagine not having things like that available for everyone. I know for a fact the majority of Canadians would not be able to come up with $10,000 during a 9 month pregnancy.

I dont have it now. i have like $3k in my account, just going to have to pay it off bit by bit every check.

Try to find 0% financing on your car. They way you can invest while you pay it off.

Where do they offer 0% financing for a car??

Just google 0% financing and your zip code. You’ll find lots of offers, especially for American brand cars.

What’s the catch? Only people with good credit get 0% financing.

Some dealerships (reputable ones) do if you have outstanding credit.

I got mine through Ford credit.

It is also important to remember that debt can he a powerful tool, especially if you want to buy a home. Not credit card debt really, but car loans and similar.

Ahhhh! You'd basically be paying to have that money sit in your bank account instead of putting it on your card.

I really suggest teaching her some financial literacy or it could come back to bite you hard if you intend to marry her.

That's a simple math thing though. My money in the bank is growing slower than the money I owe in debt. So if I hold onto the money instead of paying it off ASAP, then every dollar of interest is money I essentially threw away.

Had this conversation with my husband when I was explaining why it made no sense to sit on money that wasn't either in the emergency fund, or saving towars a down payment on a home. Replacing our rent with a mortgage payment is good, holding back extra money on student loans while the principal is growing at 4% is not.

Why not invest that extra money somewhere that will beat 4%?

If you’re living paycheck to paycheck, it is far, far better to try to start socking money away into an emergency savings fund than to just plan on using your credit card for emergencies. If your budget can’t afford an additional $40 a month then don’t swipe the credit card. You’ll just spiral yourself into never-ending minimum payments.

$5 here or there can add up and eventually you’ll have great emergency fund.

Please don’t use your credit card as sole emergency fund.

You can do both. As I've said to a few others, it takes time to build an emergency fund. And in the US with stuff like medicine being so expensive, having access to a couple thousand credit right now could literally save your life.

You should always be saving an emergency fund. But until you get something actually saved you need something.

Best example I have is my GF, she had to move cross country suddenly about a year and a half ago. That ate most of her savings. Almost as soon as she got settled in her dog decided to mess with a porcupine. Got a bunch of quills and ended up costing like $2000 to treat. Can't just put a dog down because of a few quills you can't afford. And can't really treat it yourself at home because it was too many quills, the dog would have gotten an infection. So now she's paying that off. If she hadn't had that she wouldn't have really had any options. She had an emergency fund, it got used for an emergency, then another came up before it could be rebuilt.

That's what I mean by needing it for emergencies.

You touch on a really good point, but I'd go further and say there is no universally correct way to manage debt. Everyone's finances and priorities are very different from each other. Though "Don't hold onto to credit card debt for any longer than needed" is probably sound advice for the vast majority of people.

You can scoff at someone for paying $400 for a $200 dress because they used their credit card like free money and took forever to pay it off. But I'd first ask, was the dress worth $400 to you? It might have been, their silly "fashion emergency" might have been a night they'll remember for the rest of their lives /shrug. I wouldn't do it, but I am sure a lot of people would think a lot of what I spend my money to do is silly.

Same, bought a house and needed a decent credit score. Got a Credit card, bought £500 worth of fuel throughout a year, paid it all back same year, got house approved. Still have credit card just in case but rarely use it now.

Financials in the Netherlands have to add the following notice to any advertisement: Borrowing money costs money.

And it's true. Especially with a freely available loan like a credit card, pay up. You can always withdraw a bit later if needed.

I some how made a backwards step during my mid twenties, when I was 21 I saved 15k in a year, bought the car I wanted/could reasonably afford outright. After that I never had the same ethic, I was constantly making more than the year before but somehow constantly skint.

This is something really frowned up among certain communities. I'm from a south Asian background, and my parents instilled that aversion to debt in me from a young age.

I still have the love of expensive and unnecessary shit, but the Asian instinct of avoiding debt has served me well.

Not all debt is bad to keep.

You have the right head on. I also used my tax return to pay off credit cards. Keep doing you, and don't listen to her!

I am confused by this. How does credit card work in US ?

In France, you can only pay with a credit card if you have money on your account. Well, some bank allow you to go in negative, but then you have to pay fees, but it's not normal to be in negative, at least I think.

In the US you get a credit line. Say $1000. You can spend up to $1000 on your credit card before it maxes out. At the end of each month you pay interest on the balance (with some exceptions.) So if you have 5% interest and have a maxed card you now owe $1050. You will have a "minimum payment" which is often the interest plus a little. If you don't make that payment you get hit with fees. So now you owe $1200. This continues until you pay it, or bankrupt.

We also have Debit cards, which are the connection to our actual bank accounts. This is how you spend your money directly. When we say going into the negative we generally mean when your credit balance is higher thank your bank account. So youve got say $200 in your account, but owe $800 on your credit card. You'll be able to make the payment, but its a bad place to be.

Oh okay, I can see the temptation to consider credit line as money. And can you be in negative in your bank account (so paying more than you have in your account with a debit card) ?

Some banks let you go negative, that causes an overdraft fee. Some even charge fees if you don't have enough money in the account each month. So a few banks if you end the month with $10 in your account will charge you a $5 servicing fee, then a $10 low balance fee, now youre -$5. $35 overdraft fee now you're -$40. This is something that's only pretty recently been brought to the larger stage and hopefully will ne changed soon. But given how fucked US financial institutions are, I doubt it.

Better just to save that money in an account instead of relying on credit. It's not hard for most people to cut down on their vices or things like restaurant eating, frivolous spending (clothes, hobbies, electronics) and accumulate ~$5k+ in the bank over a year. Even people that believe they're truly living "paycheck to paycheck" are probably not maximizing all their savings opportunities.

It somehow just didn't make sense to her that I hate having debt.

It's not just the debt. It's the interest you have to pay on the debt to the people who extended the credit to you. By holding debt, all your doing is spending more money over a longer period of time when you could have just paid it off and kept more money in the long run.

You don't carry a balance - loan, credit card, or otherwise - unless you're okay with the interest rate you're paying and with credit cards in particular those interest rates are astronomically high. You just don't do it unless you're in a crazy bind.

My gf asked why I didn't just make payments instead and keep the money in my account. It somehow just didn't make sense to her that I hate having debt.

Make sure you marry someone who does understand this.

I mean, I wanna marry this one. I've been trying to teach her, cause she comes from a family that's mostly off the grid so don't really know financial literacy. So I'm working on it.

Lost my job suddenly, did some odd work for cash to make ends meet but had to use credit for groceries. Credit saved my ass in that situation, but as soon as I got a job I paid it off in full. Hate carrying a balance.

My gf asked why I didn't just make payments instead and keep the money in my account. It somehow just didn't make sense to her that I hate having debt.

Does your GF not understand how interest works?

Hate debt all you want but you should also leverage the heck out of it. Take the low interest auto loan and put the cash towards something that generates a better return. Make your money work for you.

Or, just buy a cheaper car and use the money left over. That way I don't run the risk of having a financial crisis and not being able to pay my debts.

What investment makes more than the 5% or so average that a used car loan will cost your average person with good credit, without being fairly risky?

Or just have an emergency fund for emergencies. A credit card should never be used to cover emergencies.

An emergency fund takes time to build. The average American has less than $1000 in savings. Having access to an extra $3000 if life takes a huge shit on your head can be a godsend. And at age 20 earning $8 an hour while going to college, saving up $3000 is a daunting task.

Once youre financially stable in a career and have an emergency fund saved I agree. But until you do it's better than nothing.

But it's important to have access to a credit card because in an emergency it can be extra money.

That's what an emergency fund is for, not a credit card. The last thing you want to be doing in an emergency is having a credit card bill you can't pay in full at the end of the month.

Nothing inherently wrong with the idea, but a lot of younger kids I see seem to get said credit card for one specific purchase, maybe a trip that they will pay off over time, or some big purchase. Fine, but say it’s $3,000 they get credit card and lo and behold it has a $7,500 limit. Since it’s right there in your pocket they usually go up to the limit. Now that $250 a month they were going to pay is just barely covering the minimum payments.

If you need to take on short term debt for whatever reason there are generally better ways than credit cards, every other TV commerical seems to be one of these SoFi or lending club things where they will extend you some cash that has a set repayment schedule and it’s a loan, not a credit card so you can’t dip back into it once you’ve spent it.

Credit card should be at worst a bridge between paychecks if you don’t keep money in a liquid savingns or might not want to liquidate assets such as stocks, but know you have enough money coming in to cover your purchases.

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Pretty much all rental car places won’t take a debit card anymore, unless you can prove you’re flying back out of the city and thus plan to return the car. And if you have poor credit, you won’t be able to use your debit card at all. Even if you prepaid, you show up with a debit card you may not get a car.

oh of course, another one is the foreign transaction fee and if you're traveling for business sometimes you have to put it on a credit card. I was more talking about the mentality of using credit cards for things you don't have the cash in your pocket right now for.

I'm just saying, use your head and don't fear a tool just because someone on the internet fucked up their life due to lack of self control.

Exactly. I'm in my mid 30's now, and there's no chance I would have had the experiences I did in my 20's without a credit card, especially as our bonuses became a bigger portion of my annual comp. Many times I take trips, put it on a credit card and then I'd pay it off when our bonuses came. A few months of paying interest was well worth the travel experiences in my opinion, or not incurring certain tax liabilities by selling investments that my savings was in. Whenever these "what is the biggest mistake young people make....." type posts come up the top things are always about never ever taking on debt, how it's some evil thing that no one understands. Like no, it's pretty straightforward, someone else gives you money you don't have, so you can do things or buy things that you otherwise wouldn't be able to, and you give them their money back plus a little more over a certain amount of time. Use your head and make sure you can make your payments, and if you're fine with paying some interest overtime, or cutting out other frivolous expenses to pay it back faster in order to facilitate some experience (like a vacation) right now.

I have some credit cards that I use now and again, put half my new pc on it just to split it over 2 paydays,

Applied for another better once recently only because you need some credit to apply for big stuff, likes cars and a mortgage. If you rock up to thr back with no credit history wanting a car or a house, you have no chance

I don't think starter cards are giving 3-7k off the bat lucky if it's 1000.

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I’d also add that when he says spiral, he means spiral. My brother and his wife made some pretty terrible credit decisions when they were dating. Bought a damn near new car while they were working fast food, got credit cards that they damn near maxed.

Fast forward 15 years. I’m now out of college, make good money, pay my stuff off as soon as possible. I’ve only taken loans for my education, my car, and my house. My car and education are both paid off, thanks in part to stock options paying out from my employer being acquired.

My brother and his wife are still digging out of that hole. He did eventually get back to school, but the non-traditional student life has added more to his debt. They’ve asked to borrow money to repair cars that had problems because the maintenance was irregular, because he ultimately had to do it himself. He’s got two great kids that I love and spoil to bits, but they certainly have hampered the ability to get out of his financial woes. I help as I’m able, but I obviously have to live my own life, too.

Please, kids, do not think of debt as a problem for future you, or no problem at all. Think of it as a danger to your quality of life, and make sure you make decisions about how much you are willing to sacrifice to pay it off.

If you can't pay for your trip all at once, you can't afford the trip.

When did I say take a trip you can't afford, or some assumption that you have no funds in reserve? Maybe you want to take said trip without going into your savings, or having to liquidate holdings that might create tax implications.

I'm in my mid 30's now, and plenty of times I took trips that I put the majority of on a credit card and then paid off in full when we got our bonuses. I never said go spent thousands when you are barely going to be able to pay it off, but fact is a lot of younger people don't have huge disposable incomes without dipping into savings, and our markets provide options for those people.

If you read my entire comment I specify why you should look into personal loans from either your bank or a third party that will be meant for one specific thing and have a specific repayment schedule, rather than a credit card which you are more likely to keep using and fall into the cycle of just paying the minimums.

I mean like I get 5% cash back on Amazon purchases so it's basically extra money.

I love that credit card

haha I treat like sales tax is now 5% instead of 10%

Gotta spend $1980 to pay back prime. If you're a sub account on someone else's prime, the card is 3%. You have to spend 4950 to make it worth going from the 3% to 5% and cover the cost of prime.

Yeah I know I won't be making my money back with the card it's just good since I have Amazon prime anyway and use Amazon for things I'd already planned on buying. Plus building credit.

But that free Twitch subscription. I actually sub to my boyfriend so he gets some money back.

Edit: and I'm just joking, I know that doesn't make it up either. 😄

That's the amazin card?

Yep! 5% cash back on Amazon purchases, 2% on gas and I think restaurants, 1% on everything else. Plus a $50 gift card when you get approved

I thought that was just the store card that gave 5% back. When I was looking at one, they were offering just 2% back. Did they up it recently for the credit card?

Maybe? I got the prime card in December and they said it was 5%

Hmm... Might have to look into one.

I thought it was extra money... now I'm 1k in debt and can't dig myself out of this damn hole cause I suck at saving money lol

1k isn't too bad and shouldn't take too long to pay off if you just stop using it :)

I know it seems like a lot, now, but I trust if you make smart sacrifices, you can pay that off in chunks until it’s fully paid off. Gotta prioritize and budget. :)

Hey man I just dug myself out of a whole much bigger than that. It took some time and patience, and I really had to learn and reflect on my relationship with money. But a grand is easy, that should take you only a year or less if you're smart. Make a budget. Stick to it.

Genuinely curious because I'm young and never had a credit card. In what situations is it better to pay by credit card instead of just saving up the money and buying it outright? If you've already got enough money then why would you still get a credit card?

Rewards

This is another one but again, don’t spend money you don’t have just to get those extra few air miles. CC companies use reward incentives as a way to make people spend more money. Don’t get sucked in and change your spending habits because of it, just reap the benefits from normal use.

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This guy frugals

Or go to r/churning and learn how to effectively MS

Rewards are a dangerous game as they prey on people's compulsion. Most cash back cards give bonus percentages for grocery stores which are a real killer. If you have an average grocery bill of $400 and have a nice 4% cashback if that emboldens you to spend an extra ~$20 a month you are at a net loss than if you stayed to a stricter cash budget.

Most online shopping is just easier with a CC and most CC companies now offer good protection against fraud purchases. If someone uses your credit card to make a purchase, and you dispute it right away; it’s the CC company’s problem. ~~If someone uses your debit card, they stole your money and your bank may not have adequate fraud protection. You have to deal with the police.~~ Looks like this is not accurate.

My general rule of thumb is that I should be able to pay my full CC off every month, at most two months. It just takes self control and discipline to not over spend which I know is easier said than done for some. It’s a way to divide a big purchase up over a few weeks or paychecks so that you still have cash for other everyday purchases. It allows you to save your money in the future and buy now, rather than save first and buy later, you still have to save the money! like my other comment said, a credit card in no way creates extra money.

But aren't cash back rewards extra money?

Why do you think CC companies offer those incentives? It’s a way to get you to spend more money in the long run. Yes, you will save a bit of money with those rewards, but it’s not really enough of a bonus for you to suddenly be able to afford more expensive purchases. You should still only use your CC normally and within your means, then those cash back rewards are a small bonus.

If someone uses your debit card, they stole your money and your bank may not have adequate fraud protection. You have to deal with the police.

This isn’t true, debit card fraud is highly regulated, and the bank has to refund if it was reported within a certain timeframe. Look up Reg E for more information.

Fair enough!

All good, it’s a very common misconception. On the other hand, bank’s almost always do the bare minimum to comply with the regulation, so the average credit card still does offer much better protection. Your main point still stands. I work in banking and use credit cards for nearly all of my purchases because of a) the extra protection and b) the rewards. Just pay them off every month!

There are two real benefits.

  1. Rewards.

  2. Security.

If someone steals your debit card info, that person has access to your bank account, and that becomes your problem. If someone steals your credit card info, then that becomes the bank's problem. I've dealt with this before, and it's always easy to resolve.

Rewards are a nice bonus as long as you don't change your spending patterns just to stretch them a little further. I pay my bills and pay for gas and sometimes buy groceries with a credit card (not every place I shop takes credit cards -- those other places have lower prices because they don't pay merchant fees!), and every once in a while I get a free $25 or $50 or whatever.

Oh, a third nice thing is the sign-up bonus some cards have. A lot of cards out there will give you a few hundred dollars in cash or airline miles or something if you spend $X in the first three months of having a card, plus these cards usually don't charge an annual fee until the second year. So, when I need to make a big purchase (landscaping or a plane ticket or something), I'll sign up for a new card, get the bonus, and then cancel the card.

Credit cards are only good if you basically treat them like debit cards when you use them, except for that trick to get the sign-up bonuses. You lose pretty much all of the benefit if you allow yourself to buy something extra that you wouldn't have bought without the card (this is why the Amazon card is dangerous).

Also, studies have shown that just using a card instead of handling cash leads to a lot of people spending more.

Another hidden danger is that stores have to pay the credit card companies fees in order to take payment from credit cards, so pretty much everything you buy anywhere has an extra few percent added to the price to cover this.

I use my credit card for pretty much every purchase because it’s a good way to keep track of how much money I’m spending and I also get rewards. It also can be a good way to make occasional large purchases that you have budgeted out and can comfortably afford, but make more sense to spread out a bit than to buy all at once in cash.

I have a generous paycheck and healthy savings. I use a credit card for almost everything. The main benefit from it now is for convenience. And I guess rewards. But there's another story from 17 years ago...

I had a respectable pay check then too. A lot smaller than now, but better than I expected right out of college, and I was still single. I'd been frugal since I was a teen, and didn't have any significant debt. Cars had been $500 junkers, college tuition was paid out of pocket each semester after saving up (low tuition college with a scholarship), low rent place shared among friends, etc. I felt I was in good financial shape, and I'd never had a credit card because I'd never needed one. I was responsible, and credit cards are for irresponsible spenders!

Then I met my wife. It was time to get married, and in my responsible life, that also meant it was time to buy a house. (Setting aside my faulty reasoning, I think it was the right choice for me at the time, but wouldn't have been for everyone, or for me at a different time. But I digress...) My small savings were just about up for a down payment, and we found something in our budget. Go to the bank to get pre-approved for a loan to make an offer and learned my credit score was ABYSMAL.

How does this happen to someone who's been responsible with their money? Well, when a potential lender wants to know how likely you are to pay them back, they look for a history of times you've paid other people back. That's your credit history. If you don't have one at all, they don't know what risk you represent -- and that risk translates to higher rates.

If I'd been responsibly using a credit card during that time I was single and building up a positive credit history, I would have been in a lot better shape for that first big purchase. "Responsibly" shunning the credit card ended up screwing me over.

My favorite thing about credit cards is that they take all of my purchases from the month and send me a bill.

It makes bill management so much easier to track, instead of having to micromanage every transaction with debit. I have a set amount that pays automatically and anything in excess will be deducted from the next month.

The key is to always pay the due amount (not the min payment) and you'll never pay interest.

Also keep your limit below your usual pay check.

Do you mean a month's pay, a week's pay or a fortnight's pay?

I think this is pretty solid advice if you mean a month.

I use it because it offers purchase protection, fraud detection, and gives me 1% cash back on every purchase and 5% cash back on rotating categories, and doubles my cash back after 12 months of use :D

Pretty sure that's it's not just a different way of spending current money, it's also a safer way. As far as I know, losing or getting your credit card information stolen is far less problematic since there's better anti-fraud and the like on it.

My practice is that you put some amount on your credit from your debit prior to purchasing stuff, so that you have negative balance on your card which gets deducted by purchases, and top up the negative balance when it gets low. You lose your credit card? Well, there was $20 on it. Lose your debit? You're looking at thousands.

Yep! I made that same comment in reply to someone asking when to use a CC. That’s also a good tip about “pre-loading” it with cash.

It’s just for cash flow reasons really. It’s for something you can technically afford but rather not drain half your bank account in one fowl swoop doing it where you then can’t pay your rent that month.

It’s also for emergencies, such as buying something you need now but don’t currently have the money for but will at the end of the week when you get paid.

As a twenty-something who pays off his card in full every month, it still genuinely concerns me how large a credit limit my bank allows me to have too... and I’ve never asked for an increase since I opened it years ago, else it would likely be even higher.

I keep getting offered increases to more than four month's salary. Not interested at all.

I keep my limit at a round number that is close to six week's pay.

Credit cards should be treated as nothing more than a method of payment.

Or a way to spend extra future money

No. Current money.

So what you're saying is... if I get a credit card... I will have more money in the future?

The bank is promising you more money in the future. A high credit limit is their way of saying “we have complete trust in you. Here’s a bunch of free money”

Absolutely. "You gotta spend money to make money", as they say. Spend as much as you can as quickly as you can.

The more money you spend, the more money you will make.

I mean, it's simple physics here.

My gut says maybe

Yes and no.

If you get a credit card and use it responsibly creditors and lendors will trust you more. That level of trust is your credit score. If you have a high credit score, if you need to make a big purchase like a car or a home, the interest rate they charge you will be lower than other people, because there’s a higher guarantee of return out of court.

Meaning, you kinda get more money in the form of being charged less.

I disagree. A credit card lets you have the benefits of something now instead of later.

For example, buying an iPhone now and paying it (even with interest) over three months. You can calculate the interest easily and you can then weigh the options. Do I want to spend 30 bucks in interest but have the iPhone now instead of in 3 months?

The issue is when people don’t make this choice and end up paying huge amounts in interest because they can’t afford it.

Yeah. Agreed, things are always a cost-benefit analysis. If you value a phone at $30 more than asking, then feel free. But people with low financial literacy or discipline are unlikely to look at it this way. They don’t factor the “total” purchase cost when they put something on credit. They think of it as adding $1000 to what they owe. Not $1030 in the grand scheme of things. They’re the people who see $2.99 and think “it’s only two bucks”.

1030 for a 1000 purchase isn't the trap here, it's when you take three years and wind up repaying 1450.

Don't forget about your mediocre credit score because you often carry a balance, which is going to cost you a point or two when you go shopping for a car/home.

I don't think they mean future as in "I should be getting a job soon so should be fine to treat myself" but future as in "I need groceries and I know for a fact I am getting paid tomorrow so I am going to put it on the credit card and pay it off tomorrow" the former is poor fiscal responsibility. The latter is just a necessity and smart if you know your financial status

The latter is just a necessity and smart if you know your financial status

It might be necessary, but it isn't really smart. It means you screwed up your planning at some point.

If you don't have enough liquid cash to cover a few months' expenses, saving that up should be first priority, and that means cutting back on whatever you can until you have positive cash flow. If you're floating a balance up to your next payday, that's sort of going in the opposite direction.

And people don't need to do that, no matter how much they might protest. Spending more than you have -- ever -- is a sign that you're living above your means.

That's a very naive way of thinking. Millions of people are living paycheck to paycheck and they haven't all simply "screwed up their planning"

Very true, most haven't planned at all.

I disagree. You can use credit cards as a last or even to make a purchase that boosts your morale. The key is being responsible and realistic about how you are going to pay it back. It's not just there to build credit.

I sometimes feel guilty knowing that all of the sweet benefits I get from my credit card are paid for by those people that can’t or won’t pay theirs off each month...

I use my Citi card on everything I can instead of paying cash because I get 2% cash back. Then it's like I'm always saving a bit of money

Basically it's promising you are going to pay the money at the end of the month, but in the meanwhile you keep the actual money.

Great in case of emergency.

Just make sure you don’t promise that same money to someone else! Otherwise they will come to your door looking for either money or broken knee caps, so you better have money. ;)

It's a way to get rewarded for being responsible with your money.

That's a good way to phrase it

And if you pay in full every month, it's free money due to cash back and rewards.

The way I think about it is that the Credit Card is an abstraction layer between the world and my checking account. I don't want to expose my checking account to the world and get it raided (this happened to me, and it took a while to get my money back). Credit cards by contrast are much nicer for the "lel my ID was stolen" aspect.

If you're not using a credit card as an extension of your debit card and auto-pay each month for literal free money, you're doing it wrong.

In D&D terms, a credit card is like having temporary hit points; you can take a little extra damage knowing they won't be hitting your main pool of HP.

Don't forget about getting points if you live within your means. I have a free card that gets me free groceries. I'm not traveling for free but hey, better than nothing!

Pro-tip : I only use my credit card as a firewall to my bank account. If the credit card is cloned, pirates only have access to the card limit, instead of having access to my whole money. It is also a lot more easier to recover from credit card cloning than debit card.

1) autodebit credit card payments in full 2) accumulate points / rewards

This is allll you gotta do. If the points / rewards are greater value than your yearly fee for CC, you win the game. Gain access to global banking power/systems while avoiding the scams they almost always end up being.

I see them as a buffer, for example when 3 bills suddenly come in it doesnt just empty your card account. If you need to wait till pay day or move money you have the room to

Legit the only reason I have one is to hire vehicles or get hotels...

As someone who only got a credit card 3 years ago, it always confused me how people could overspend. I still have trouble understanding how people overspend unless it's an emergency...as far as I'm concerned my credit card is just a debit card. If I don't have the money, I don't spend it (obviously it's different if you're in an emergency/starving/etc.).

More importantly, credit cards are a way to assess how you manage your money, and they'll lend you more at a lower interest rate if they deem you low risk. Very important for when you want to buy a house.

Always have a second bank card and pin so if your card is swallowed by a machine you aren’t shit out of luck!

Are you not describing a debit card now? In Denmark, I don't know a single person who has a credit card, everyone uses debit cards for payments.

Comments like this make me wonder why credit cards even exist if they don't even benefit the card holder.

Oh, wait.

The way credit works in the US always fascinates me, I still don't have a clear idea about how it works.

I never imagined credit cards could be anything other than a way to spend money in your bank account.

You should think of a credit card as a tool. It's purpose is to build good credit .

How and why should I use a credit card then? I'm about to enter the workforce soon and everyone tells me that I need to build credit.

some good reasons:

  • Fraud protection

  • Builds good credit if you want a lower-interest loan to buy a house or a car someday

  • Cash back rewards

Yeah, and since the ever expanding job market is just riddled with high paying careers, this statement definitely isn't a fanciful farce for most folks...

The people who don't have money have even more reason to avoid misusing credit cards.

Buying something you can't afford will very quickly put you into a debt spiral that can be really hard to get out of. I hear all the time about people with $20k in credit card debt at absurd interest rates, and these are the same people who are going to get even more wiped out when an emergency hits.

Living responsibly is easier if you do it from the start. Save up an emergency fund, have the means to pay your medical bills, live below your means, and all that. It makes life much less stressful.

I sleep well at night because I've spent years saving up a nice cushion. Yeah, that meant spending my 20s driving around in a crappy car. Yeah, that meant not going out to eat all the time with the people who were broke but wanted to look like they had money.

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If you're implying that you have to claim your credit card rewards as income to the IRS, then you should know that the IRS classifies credit card rewards as rebates and do not tax them.

Serious question. Why would anyone prefer using Credit Cards over Debit Cards in everyday use?

Edit: For context, i am Norwegian, so the curiosity is genuine. I dont think i have even used my credit card once in the last 10 years.

points, cash back, widely accepted, online purchases

Better fraud protection as well.

Actually the fraud protection is the same, so long as you're using a Visa Debit Card / Debit Mastercard and not just a cashcard or ATM card.

But with a credit card, if your card is stolen the money comes out of the bank's wallet first, not yours. So if someone tries to spend thousands of dollars with your credit card, you don't immediately go broke until it gets fixed.

That's true, I was just speaking in terms of protection (ie - you don't have a greater chance of getting your money back just because it's credit card as opposed to a debit card)

And with some cards you get built in insurance or added warranty. Amex will match the default warranty, for example, so if it's 1 year they will add a year (as long as the whole purchase is on the one card).

And building credit, which helps when getting a loan for a car or house later on.

*Limited to a few countries.

points, cash back

These are the big ones. Particularly if you can run every purchase you make through a CC and make sure to pay no interest, you basically get free airline flights every so often.

I've saved thousands on hotels for vacations from one card, and I use another card to horde points until Christmas each year. Bought the family a Wii U entirely off points one year, as an example.

We've got a citi double cash card and I purchased our entire PS4pro with cash back.

It's 2% cash back on everything, no annual fee. Not using it is basically pissing money down the toilet.

It also helps your credit score IF you pay your bills

My credit card also has a neat app that shows me how much Im spending on certain things. Great for budgeting.

This, what everyone else said about all the features, etc.

Maybe this is a bit cynical, but here’s my take. What I like about all the credit card “rewards” are that the bank is basically betting you will be irresponsible with the card and then pay more in interest. All the rewards are a lure to use their card and often. This is what subsidizes all the rewards and perks, you just have to be careful. They “want” you to fall into a debt trap, because that is more profitable. But if you don’t overextend yourself and pay all your debts on time, you can take advantage of these perks.

Credit card companies make a bunch of money from merchant fees, too. Every time you buy anything with a credit card, they skim a bit off the top. So, even if you use your card perfectly and don't pay them any interest, they still make more money if you use your card than if you don't.

That’s true! I’m being a bit cynical right now, so that’s the angle I’m taking now

It's not cynical - they aren't giving free money. They are promoting a product that makes them good money

I have literally never had my debit card rejected for a purchase online or in person. It's just a regular Mastercard for the sake of purchases.

In Canada at least, you usually can't use debit online, unless it's through a paypal account

I guess that just isn't the case for Australians. I've even bought things from Canada with my debit card, absolutely no problems. Weird.

In the US, most debit cards are backed by one of the major credit companies (typically Visa or Mastercard) so our debit cards are basically credit cards that have a limit equal to your bank account and pay off immediately.

In fact, you can almost always use a debit card as a credit card here (it will get rejected if you don't have the funds). The only difference is the bank pays the merchant fee if you use the card as debit, so many banks have a rewards program for when you check out with the card as credit.

But you're basically missing out on ~5% of your spending worth of free shit.

If it's ever lost/stolen, they don't have access to your full bank account like a debit card may allow.

Plus, as already mentioned, the points/cash back perks can be a nice extra when you're paying it off in full each month.

All of these reasons are why I haven’t used my debit card in years. I have 4 different credit cards that I use, paying for whatever gets me the most points based on the purchase. I treat them like debit cards and pay in full every month.

I feel like the reason this system works is because people like you and me and the others here are in the minority of credit card users. We are subsidized by all the people who overextend and have to pay interest.

Gah, my wife and I had been doing this system and it was working perfectly but this last credit card period we had some unexpected stuff come up and we're going to have to carry a balance for a few months. Thankfully the interest will probably be under $100 but it's still annoying.

We're at the point where we're still living paycheck to paycheck but all the bills are getting paid and we're slowly putting money away, so it's frustrating getting kicked back in the hole, even if it's just temporary.

Hang in there! It sounds like you are in the right frame of mind about saving money. That’s such a critical step.

It gets easier :)

We are subsidized by all the people who overextend and have to pay interest.

Not really. You're subsidized by merchant fees.

Oh, Target wants to accept MasterCard? Well they have to pay MasterCard X% or $0.YY (whichever is larger) of every purchase that's paid with a MasterCard credit card.

That's the credit card companies' main source of income.

Yep, great system!

What are those points you're talking about?

If it's ever lost/stolen, they don't have access to your full bank account like a debit card may allow.

On the flip side though, a lot of people have a low bank account balance most of the time (salary goes in, instantly transferred out for bills, loans etc.), but may have a credit card limit of $5k-10k. So it would actually be worse for them to have their credit card stolen over their normal bank card.

Except the credit card money isn't yours, and the credit companies are very good at protecting their money from fraud.

It's unlikely an account would be maxed with fraud (unless you were high anyway), but even if it were it would rarely be devastating.

The money in a bank account meanwhile is yours, and getting it back if lost could take weeks. That could be a lot more damaging with rent or mortgage.

Really if you're entirely living paycheque to paycheque with never a balance in bank accounts, you have bigger issue than risk of fraud.

If you have any savings however, it's better to use credit cards, pay off every month, and reap the benefits of points, fraud protection, building credit rating, enhanced warranties and insurance, and not pay a dime extra.

Really if you're entirely living paycheque to paycheque with never a balance in bank accounts, you have bigger issue than risk of fraud.

Like what?

Good point. Also depends on what fraud protections each account has; I've had an easier time reporting false purchases on my credit card than debit, but obviously YMMV.

Yeah, it's probably different in each country too. I work for an Australian bank so I know here it's definitely the same for debit and credit cards, but it's probably different elsewhere.

The banking system in the US is really weird. In Europe the only thing people can do when they know your bank account number is... deposit money. A stolen debit card is useless without the pin code.

It's the same in the USA, what happens is identity theft where they gain access through social engineering or malware.

Establishing a good credit history is important for when you want to take on any serious debt like a mortgage or small business loan. Banks will be reluctant to lend to someone that doesn't have a proven track record of making payments on time

Insurance. Ease of cancelling payments/ fighting wrong charges. Rewards points. Convenience of “Tap and Pay”. I am less likely to spend on cc than spend real cash!

You don't have tap and pay on your debit card?

No. Is that a thing for you?

Yeah. Has been for a few years.

Credit rating

I put absolutely everything on my credit card and pay it off each week. I get points back so every few months I get a free tank of gas.

My main eftpos card always has basically zero dollars in it. Everything else is in savings.

For your credit score it's actually better to let the full amount accumulate to the billing end period then pay off in full, since that is the only amount that gets reported to credit agencies, not total cash amount used on the card.

Probably, but my credit score is still pretty good. Paying it off as I go weekly is much easier for me as I get paid weekly so I'm happy sacrificing that extra credit score for convenience.

Haven't seen it yet, but you have to use a credit card (not debit) for rental items like rental cars and hotel rooms. That was a very frustrating lesson to learn

Definitely because it helps to build your credit score provided you pay it off on time. If not, it'll actually damage your credit score which affects everything in your financial life.

You don't have to pay it off, just make the minimum payment. It's missing payments that screw you.

Points for airfare. Example. I am flying to Vegas for free this summer because I used my MasterCard to buy groceries. My MasterCard has not been in the negative since I got it

Better fraud protection as others said. Plus if someone skins your ATM + PIN, your checking account is gone with little to no recourse.

AMEX matches the warranty, points, credit score is very important in America even for getting a job.

American credit cards work different from European cards (at least from what I've heard).

Ours, you buy something, the balance goes on the record, and then you pay it off whenever you want. I pay mine off once per week. This means I'm never charged a penny in interest, but I get the benefits of using a card, which include a good credit score and an occasional small amount of extra money.

It's my understanding that a lot of European cards are affiliated with a bank account, and using one just means you can continue to charge once the balance hits zero. I... wouldn't want to do that.

American-style credit cards can be VERY dangerous if you aren't really disciplined with them. Worse, people get really defensive about their bad habits, and that just leads to them digging a deeper and deeper hole.

Really, the only good way to use an American-style credit card in most situations is to use it just like a debit card. Never buy something if you don't have the money to pay it off RIGHT NOW, and never pay a penny in interest. Anything else is either risky or a symptom of living beyond your means in a way that will eventually blow up in your face.

You hear about people putting groceries on credit cards to hold themselves over until payday (instead of cutting back on other purchases at some point to make room for groceries). Eventually, something will happen, and the budget that is already strained will break, and then the credit card becomes an extra burden every month, an ongoing loan at 20% interest.

And the thing is, the people who keep credit card debt around could just as easily avoid it, since in the end, they're spending MORE money on things than I am, since they're handing a big interest payment over to the credit card company every month.

Cake credit score booster keep no or very low utilization. Put any bills you can on it then pay them off with your checking account. Viola you've raised your credit.

In Canada and the USA, you can profit greatly from sign-up bonuses from credit cards. These typically come in the format of "spend $X in the first Y months and get [insert reward points or cash back amount] for free!" For example, "spend $3000 in the first 3 months and get 50,000 airline miles for free."

These generally exist to attract new customers who may or may not end up spending enough for the bonus, but will end up earning the credit card company more than that in the long run thanks to interest and transaction fees. However, if you're financially responsible and good at budgeting, you can generally avoid paying any interest at all thanks to something called the "interest free grace period," and the transaction fees are incurred by merchants, not you.

These bonuses can add up significantly just from your regular spending if you're managing it properly. Generally, a year of spending intelligently on credit cards instead of cash/debit can add up to enough for a round-trip plane ticket in business class, or a week at a five-star hotel. There are many people who don't pay for their vacation travel because it's covered by credit card rewards.

I use my AMEX for everything, I mean everything! Even though most people think it's a credit card, it's not; it's a charge card. I have to pay it off every month. I do this for a few reasons but the 2 most important are: I get points for travel that never expire and I can use them on any airline, and I get the benefits of a credit card like fraud protection, extended warranty, and a year-end accounting of where I spend (which, in case you didn't know because you're from from a civilized country, helps me with my taxes because all of my medical expenses are there).

most people want to bank reward points or savings for fuel or groceries. Still not wise to use a credit card if you don't already have the money. Don't buy what you can't afford.

As well as cash back we have a revolving credit mortgage account (~5% of the total mortgage) and putting costs into the credit card and paying off once per month lowers the effective loan amount on the revolving credit account, meaning we pay less interest.

The big one nobody's mentioned yet is that it's great for people who don't keep a large amount of their money in a singular bank account. For example, people who keep their money primarily in stocks, or who have lots of accounts. If they run out of money in the account, they can still buy stuff as long as they make sure to transfer money into that account by the end of the month.

Points. My wife and I are flying from the US to Thailand, Korea, and Vietnam next month with the flights all business class (except for one short one) and paid for with points that we got from credit card promotions. Interest rate is probably crap, but we always pay it off in full, so that's no issue.

Extra security is nice also.

You're money won't immediately be withdrawn so if you know you'll have money next week, you can pay the bill later. Also it builds your credit, you earn points to pay some of your bill with, and your money is safer.

This is a sliperly slope way to use a card. A week yeah okay but I would still be on the side of caution spending money on a credit card that you don't instantly have in cash.

That depends on how much you use your card. I said pay per month because that's how the billing cycles for credit cards work.

Right if you base it off monthly income you're safe. Too many people think oh I'll have that next paycheck then end up in a hole cause monthly they're already at a net loss

You just have to make sure you pay your bill on time. I don't use my credit card unless I'm purchasing something that is more than $50 which isn't often but I'd rather accumulate points if I'm going to spend that much.

Yes we're agreeing here just in a strange way as long as you pay your bill on time and aren't constantly in the red monthly you're fine. If you're making large purchases for points then paying the minimum balance for months on end your losing money.

Oh hell no! Lol, never just pay the minimum. My parents taught me that lesson vicariously.

This depends on how responsible said person is. A small credit balance is not very expensive when you compare the opportunity cost of having things right away.

Right I should have made myself more clear see the below post.

Why is there a difference in when the money is withdrawn etc? the recipient presumably is paid either way?

Because a credit card is paying with credit so your money from your bank account isn't withdrawn until you pay that months bill. A debit card is pretty much you paying upfront with cash except you use a card instead of paper money.

If you're sensible enough with a credit card they're very handy. I couldn't live without mine. I have a $10,000 limit but my balance rarely goes over $1,500. It allows me to live more comfortably rather than 'paycheck to paycheck'. I don't have to worry 'how much money do I have left until next Thursday when I get paid again'. If I want to go out to dinner with friends, I can. If I want to treat myself and buy something nice, I can. If you don't go crazy with it and blow it all an once, and actually understand how they work, treat it like it's your money and understand that you have to pay it back, they're actually really great.

This ^^ When I was in my late teens early twenties, I racked up thousands of dollars of debt way higher than my monthly income for stupid shit, mostly modding my car. Now I always make the full payment on my credit cards any month. I treat them like cash, just with the benefit of getting points. Never hold a balance unless it’s an emergency situation.

Glad you got money smart but what kind of car did you mod?

It was a 01 Nissan Altima. Full body kit, upgraded intake, 3x12 subs, went crazy with the interior lights: blue reverse HUD, under dash/seats LED, blue LEDS on back plate (resulted in three warnings), rims. It was a fun phase and I learned a bit about how cars work and how to wire audio and lighting equipment

I had to use mine for some emergency situations few years back, and I'm close to paying off two credit cards (I always pay more than minimum) and it feels so nice.

Is this not common sense?

You'd be surprised how many don't know this. Many seem to think that they can coast for years paying the minimum and only realize the consequences of that when they check their credit score. Personal finance is seriously neglected in education nowadays

A credit card is a free one month loan, that turns unaffordably unfavorable after one month.

Not if you pay it all off though... Then it's just a way of postponing your payments until the end of the month.

"If you can't afford something, then don't buy it.

I disagree. What if it's your car that's broken down? Or the computer your kids are using for school work breaks? Or you need to replace the oven? Or your hours get cut back for a month or two? Or you want to treat yourself?

Credit cards should be used for their flexibility. The ability to pay the minimum helps people who have irregular income streams or seasonal work. These people can then pay more later on.

You shouldn't use them as a pure loan (paying minimum forever) but there is no problem with not paying the full amount off if you understand the cost of the debt and are making rational choices about your finances at the time.

I disagree. What if it's your car that's broken down? Or the computer your kids are using for school work breaks? Or you need to replace the oven? Or your hours get cut back for a month or two? Or you want to treat yourself?

That's where budgeting comes into play. It's important to figure out how much money you're willing to spend each month on food, gas, utilities, rent, etc. And it's important to set aside a certain percentage each month to go into savings for future emergencies; or hopefully retirement.

but there is no problem with not paying the full amount off if you understand the cost of the debt and are making rational choices about your finances at the time.

I completely agree. My only point was that if you start off paying the full bill and continue to do that, then you'll never have to worry about paying anything extra in interest.

Budgeting is fantastic but unfortunately a lot of people don't have enough left over to save for emergencies or they get multiple emergencies.

A credit card used properly unlocks successful budgeting as you can flex according to that months situation.

I agree that your suggestion is best for most of the population but people shouldn't feel bad for paying interest if it makes sense for them. Debt and interest should not be a taboo.

I agree with you both; as long as people budget well, it should be okay. But outside of emergencies, I think his point is more something like this: say you see a television you want, but don't have the cash for it, so you use a credit card. By the time you're done paying off the principle and interest, you may have spent three times what the television cost. Had you waited and saved up for it, it would have been delayed gratification, but a whole lot cheaper. People will scramble to buy something on sale with a credit card, but by the time they're done paying it off, it costs way more than even the base price, so the "sale" was meaningless.

When those unexpected things happen though, it means you have to make sacrifices elsewhere to offset them as much as possible.

Also, a line of credit is better for emergencies as they have much lower interest.

It's also useful for if you ever can't pay off a credit card bill in full a given month. Pay it with the line of credit and cut your interest by 50-75%.

What if it's your car that's broken down? Or the computer your kids are using for school work breaks? Or you need to replace the oven? Or your hours get cut back for a month or two?

Or you want to treat yourself?

One of these is not like the others.

I ended up with a garuntee lump sum in the future and used my credit cards as a "oh I'll be able to pay that off in a few months" that future date got extended for a few months and I regret every purchase I made. Luckily the time has finally come around and I'm back to being responsible with my money, have a few extra things that I bought at a discount that after the interest on ended up being closer to full price...

Good for you! Many find it hard to come back from credit card debt.

The only reason I got a credit card was so that I could build more credit score. I use my credit card just like a debit card and I pay it off in full at the end of the month. I think this is the smart thing to do with a credit card.

Yup, this is what I've been trying to say. Treat your credit card like it's a debit card and don't spend more than you can pay off.

I just use mine for travel points and pay it regularly.

Amen. And if you use them correctly, you can make some serious cash. I've gotten so much free stuff from credit card points that I've earned on things I was going to purchase anyway (or that I could otherwise afford). It's awesome.

This is true. And if you use it wisely, it will potentially SAVE you a lot of money down the road.

Yup. As long as you pay everything off on time, no interest has to be paid.

I've been wilin' out on the credit card companies forever. I make payments to all my accounts 2x per month, never carry a balance, haven't paid interest on a credit card in well over 10 years, use my card to buy shit for my work and then they reimburse me. Meanwhile I'm getting 1.5% back on everything and take $150 new customer sign-up bonuses as they come my way.

Better use the last of your credit card balance to buy some lube though if you bite off more than you can chew, cause they sure ain't gonna provide any when they bend you over.

If you’re in the right profession, a 0% APR credit card is actually a free loan for 18 months runway to pursue a dream while you’re young enough to forgo the difference in income.

My buddy spent the last year backpacking South America while trying to make it as a professional writer. When he maxed out his credit, he moved home with his parents and applied for jobs. He’s clearing six figures at Google now, it’s fucking ridiculous.

A recommendation I always give to people just going to college or turning 18 is to apply for a credit card in the near future. Only spend a few bucks a month on things, but pay it off in full every month to build credit. I have so many friends in their mid to late 20s who have awful credit because they never paid their cards off! One friend owes less than $1000 and could easily pay it off in full in a couple paychecks, but she's awful with her money and doesn't seem to care

Agree! I learned this lesson the hard way in my early 20s and I’m still paying off the debt I racked up. Almost there though! Will be credit card debt free this year. Now I only charge what I have in my budget.

I'm always surprised to hear how people fail to realize that. You are not getting money for free and whoever lends it to you is going to make money off you, is that too difficult to realize?

Rebuttal: when we bought our house we signed up for a 0 percent intro apr card. Technically we never went into debt, but we never touched our emergency fund, and instead used that line of credit. Not only that, we earned rewards (not insignificant) on it. Kinda in agreement but at the same time we could have pushed it a little. Now we've opened another savings account and just pay into that instead of the credit card bill so we earn interest on it (also, not insignificant over time)

Shit i do that, i spend money i dont have but i immediately pay it off as soon as i get my paycheck. But i still budget myself to only like 8 dollars a day for food (lunch). What else can i do to prevent myself from fucking it up?

There has been twice in my life that I have not paid the entire balance on my credit card at the end of the month and I thought I was going to break out into hives. It's basically just a delayed debit card. With a $50,000 credit limit.

Who the fuck thinks I am responsible enough for a $50k CL?! That's insane!

That's the whole point. Because you've been paying of your full balance just about every single time, the credit card company thinks that you are responsible enough for such a high limit. And later on banks will give you loans with lower interest rates as well. That's what happens when people are responsible with money.

My parents always taught me "Never charge today what you cannot afford to pay off tomorrow".

Thankfully my parents taught me the exact same thing.

It’s harder to do when you see everyone credit-financing a luxury life but with some discipline it is doable and oh so worth it.

I encourage all people in young adult hood and entering to budget and plan their expenses. Credit cards can initially be used as an emergency fund but you should save up your own for “oh shit” situations and as you get older they will come. Family member dies and you need to fly out or pay for a funeral? You can.

I saved up 30k as an e-fund and after my dad died I didn’t have concerns about finances for the few months I needed to be away from work and from the funeral and religious ceremonies I had to pay for.

If you are paying interest on your credit cards you need to get out of that situation as soon as possible.

The right way to use a credit card:
- Set up automatic payment of $200+ a month.
- ALWAYS make your monthly payment. A single missed payment can haunt you for years.
- Use the card or work expenses that you’ll be reimbursed for.
- Use the card to cover unusually high costs that you need to spread out over several months like vet bills or an annual vacation. (The heat use for credit cards: spread heavy expenses evenly across s year).
- EXPECT A MONTHLY PAYMENT in your life budget. Just assume that you’ll need to pay off $100 or $200 a month on your card and never let it surprise you or get ignored. Anytime you don’t need to have a payment, it goes into savings.
- Use the card for regular purchases to get benefits like airline miles or cash-back ONLY if you already have the cash in your bank account AND pay it in full every month.
- Always have extra credit available for emergencies.
- Use a credit card to build your credit. Keep your debt to only 20% of your credit if possible. Ask for credit-line increases. Ask for a reduction in your interest rate. Build your credit score.

A credit card is a tool. When used properly it can give you a lot of benefits, everything from airline miles to cash. But the real reason to get a credit card is to build credit.

Credit is WAY more important than they taught us in school. Credit opens all kinds of doors for you, but it can close just as many. Bad credit obviously can keep you from getting a loan, but it also can keep you from renting an apartment, or in some cases even from getting a job. But GOOD credit can get you whatever the fuck you want, as long as you have some income to go with it.

At the very least, having great credit can save you a shitload of money by getting you the best interest rates available when you do have to borrow money, which can literally save you hundreds of thousands of dollars over a lifetime of debt, which, let’s face it, is reality for most people.

Use your credit card as a tool. Use it to buy stuff you always buy but can afford to pay cash for. Like your gas, groceries, etc. Then just make sure you pay the FULL BALANCE, every month, before the minimum payment is due. That way you’re constantly using the credit (which believe it or not is actually good for your credit) AND you’re not paying interest since the interest doesn’t accumulate until the due date.

Yup, this is exactly what I've been trying to say

Pre-paid credit card is the answer.

Running a moderate balance helps your credit score. I put all of my bills auto pay on my card and had one bill to pay every month. Credit got REALLY high after three years.

I use mine almost exclusively for the rewards that come with it. Anything that doesn't apply a surcharge gets put on the credit card, and I pay it off when it gets up to $200 or so, always before the end of the month. My credit is sky-high from that, and I get $25 back every few months.

What the fuck people still dont understand this?? I never pay attention to the interest rate on a credit card because it doesnt apply to me. Pay your damn bills!

The only reason I have a credit card is for chargebacks and the cash back. Why else would you need one?

Credit cards help to build your credit score as well, as long as you pay everything off on time.

Credit card companies wouldn't be around if people actually knew this though. The only money they make is off of interest.

The only money they make is off of interest.

Not true... They also make money off the seller, typically .5 - 3 percent

Nah thats not a good business model. They make plenty of money off merchant fees.

This x100!!!

I do collections for a financial institution and I can’t tell you how many people in their 20s I deal with that have accrued massive credit card debts and are struggling to tread water...since the interest on higher balance accounts often makes the minimum monthly payment close to a break-even.

Its not just that people need to pay off their bills on time, but also seriously reconsider their lifestyle choices. Many in their 20's spend too much and save too little.

Agreed, my girlfriend is 26 and trying to recover from just such choices and it’s been a real struggle.

(I’m an American, for reference) For all the things they teach you, public schools really need to include more of a focus on real life necessities such as budgeting, taxes, importance of networking, etc...

My boss paid off his credit card debt (from a medical emergency) using 0% cards. I've been half-tempted to give it a go but I'm not too keen with opening a bunch of credit card accounts either.

Most of those 0% APR offers are “12 month intro” rates. If you decide to pursue that, you need a solid plan where you KNOW you can have the funds before interest is applied; otherwise you’ll be paying multiple cards with standard APRs.

When I was in highschool we had to take a consumer education course. Most took it over the summer, and I think about a day was spent on credit cards and payments.

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Eh, I find that people understand it better the more in-depth the point is.

I've had this problem with a debit card because the minimum you can retrieve from a card and the minimum you can retrieve from your wallet isn't the same thing.

I always tell people to add 20%, things are more expensive then you realize.

I'm not certain but I think they might mean: "This car lease + insurance is only $450 a month, I can afford that", while not thinking about alternatives/the real cost. $20 000 on a 4 year lease could have instead purchased a really nice, gently used vehicle.

To be fair, you're making it sort of sound like you should buy a nice, gently used vehicle for $20,000.

Not saying you should lease a car when you can't afford it, but being able to come up with $5000 in cash can be tough.

It seems a LOT of people in this thread are over estimating how much a brand new car costs. Yeah, there are plenty that are 30K or more, but I paid less then 15k for my car, and will still be paying less then 20k when the interest is accounted for. People on Reddit like to feel really fucking high and mighty, telling someone that they should have bought used instead of new.

Well, yeah, a new car is just about one of the biggest money sinks you can buy..
Cars typically experience the sharpest depreciation in value after the first year of ownership. Of course, if you're gonna keep the car for life, then it doesn't matter, but if you're gonna trade or sell it later on, buying used is generally a less expensive option, both in the short and long term.

The trick is buying a car you wouldn’t mind driving for 150,000 miles. My current plan is to buy a Hyundai Veloster N when that comes out, it looks to be quite reliable and sporty and it comes with a 5 year full warranty. So that’s maintenance done for half a decade, and I can hold onto it until I make enough to get a really nice car or buy a house.

Just remember the warranty isn't going to pay for damages during a collision, that time you blew the tire out, or when you accidentally scratched off some paint with the shopping cart. (And if you live in a snowy state, rust build up). It usually doesn't cover routine maintenance either like oil changes and tire rotations. The warranty is only covering issues like failing brakes and abnormal slipping clutch, etc.

I’ve got insurance for a reason. At any rate, I drive a 21 year old car right now; if anything, maintenance costs on a new car would be lower.

You Might be surprised what things can cost for new parts. It's ridiculous sometimes.

but in theory a new car should require fewer parts to keep it on the road than a 20 year old junker. Believe me, going from replacing parts every month to 2 months to a new car that needed a new windscreen wiper and a set of brake pads in the entire 3 years that I owned it was a revelation. Was paying more monthly for the car, but I had SO much more money not having to put it into the garage every few weeks with something else going wrong.

Depends on the car I guess. I've owned a 1998 4 runner for just over 2 years. I've put $1700 in maintenance over 24 months.This is from a mechanic because I'm not good with cars.That's $70 per month over 24 months. A $20,000 car would have been about $300 per month on a 5 year car loan with $5,000 down. That's a long loan. I would have paid $7200 over 2 years vs. $1700. Which is cheaper?

I mean I guess you should include the cost of the car too... But yeah it's definitely a YMMV kind of situation.

Cost was $4,400 cad. Which is less than down payment of $5,000 on $20,000 car. So I guess the calculation would be $12,200 vs. $6,100. Or double just over 2 year period. Except those payments keep coming out for another 36 months.

I’ve dropped over $1k just trying to get rear glass on my integra because they’re almost out of spare panels. It’s a pain, really. Hyundai is pretty good about providing free maintenance on top of their warranties for a period, but I’m not done researching this regardless.

And if you're financing the vehicle, you can get anywhere from 0% to 1.99% financing on a new car, and on a used car you're likely paying 5% to 8%.

That's true but used cars are drastically cheaper than new cars. The interest usually evens out, if not still being in favor of the used car.

Of course, thats with the 1.99% rate. With 0%, it's a different story.

Yeah, I mean a Civic starts at like just under 19k. That's a very capable car.

And still costs close to 80k over its 200k mile lifespan factoring in gas and all.

So then your used car costs what, 75k over that same life span?

probably more. old vehicles are less efficient and have a worse mpg

200k miles at 32mpg is 6250 gallons of gas. 6250 gallons of gas at the current US average of $2.77/gal (which is an 18 month high, and 4 cents shy of a 3 year high) is $17312.50. Let's assume you lived 25 miles from work and you went to work 5 days a week every week and drove 100 miles per weekend. That's a total of 13000 + 5200 = 18200 miles per year (US average is 12,000 miles per year, so this is way overestimating). 200,000/18200 is just a touch under 11 years, so given this model we average 11 years of ownership.

If we factored in $1000/yr on maintenance and $815/yr on insurance (national average) along with that, we are looking at $19,965 over the course of 11 years.

So we have $19,965 for maintenance and insurance + $17312.50 for gas. Puts us way under 40k over 11 years for maintenance.

Even if I bought the Civic for $25k with 0 down at an absolutely horrendous 4.5% interest rate, I'm spending $2,964.53 on interest, or $27,964.53 over 5 years for the car.

$19965+17312.50+27,964 = $65241.50 over 11 years for basically everything involved in this car at a pretty liberal estimate.

Actually not that far off from my calcs except being in CA and commuting city I factored 25mpg at ~3ish per gallon going back 10years. I'm not really arguing with the used vs new as much as getting people to see the real costs of owning a car today and how things like mpg make a big difference in the long run. When I get home I'll see if there's anything else I factored in.

For sure. I understand where you are coming from. Generally for personal finances probably best to put in a bit of an overhead anyway for those "just in case" situations.

For what it's worth, AAA gets close to your $80k number. I'm looking at the $6,354/yr number for small sedans. Over 11 years, that is around $70k. I have to dive deeper into the numbers, though. Because a slight difference in miles driven per day makes a big difference.

My calcs were a little high on the interest but came to about 70k and I included opportunity cost lost of a potential savings account investment of the initial car cost.

~20k for the car ~20k gas over 200k miles (mine averages about 11 cents per mile) ~20k insurance ~8k for car registration, oil, tires, brakes, gen maintenance, car washes, and potential repairs. I placed loan and opp. cost at 7500 but didn't go super in depth on the interest calc so you're more accurate there when it should be more like 4500. I think 70k total is probably a fair number.

At this point I swear we should all just sell our cars and get electric bikes. No gas tax, no registration, no insurance, 35mph. Forget the tesla ;)

Heh, for a hot minute I thought about just getting rid of my car and going for a electric bike to go to and from work since I'm less than 4 miles away. Then I remembered the frigid Michigan winters...

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Hahaha, it's not THAT bad. My girlfriend has an e-bike. Gets 25-45miles on one charge depending on how you ride it. Would be perfect if not for the winters here. Downside is that it's like a 60lb bike.

Jusr bought a civic. 27k after taxes, freight, and 31k after finance fees. Thats including putting 10k down.

I mean... The cheapest Civic is less than19k... You're talking about a fully loaded hatch. You're paying as much as I paid for my WRX.

No Im talking about a mid teir coupe.

EX-T trim starts at $21.7k USD. So you have like $2.5k+ worth of additional packages and options. No idea why you're paying $4k in "finance fees." That doesn't sound right at all. Unless you're giving me a total amount spent after you pay off all of your interest on a 5 year loan. Which means you're not comparing apples to apples with me here.

That sounds like an incredibly bad deal. You paid $37k for a Civic?

Idk where you got 37k from...? And no... Thats how much new cars cost when you include EVERYTHING

You said $27k.... After a $10k down payment.

No I didnt. 31k is including everything. I put 10k down. Civic is now 17k. Financing for 72 months puts you at 4k financing fees. How is that so difficukt to understand?

Because that's the exact opposite of what your wrote above. If you say something costs $27k AFTER a down payment, that means after paying the $10k it costs $27k. I'm still not sure where you are getting $4k for financing fees though. I think you may have still been bent over pretty hard.

"Jusr bought a civic. 27k after taxes, freight, and 31k after finance fees. Thats including putting 10k down." no... no I didn't. 31k after finance fees. That's including putting 10k down... I figured people would understand that I was meaning financing cars is expensive, even when you put a lot of money down. I can understand if that wasn't clear and I'm sorry for that. Maybe my numbers might seem unrealistic to you because I'm Canadian aswell... but Civic's start at 19k here too before you include things such as finance fees and freight and any add ons.

What are you calculating as the finance fees? Interest over the life of the loan? What's your interest rate/ how many months?

2.99% over 72 months My bills state car itself was around 27k, and after the 6 years I'll have paid 31k towards it. I have no idea why you guys keep downvoting me for stating what I paid. We are talking about life mistakes in your 20. I was trying to point out new cars are a lot more expensive than people think.

I'm not down voting you, you're just adding things up that people don't typically factor into car sale comparisons. It would be like adding in the price of gas and oil changes over 6 years and then comparing it to another car.

Your original post was just confusing for me with the whole down payment thing.

But that's my point. New cars are WAY more expensive than people think.

27k w/ a 10k downpayment is $17,000 financed. At 3% interest you’re looking at roughly $1600 in interest. How’d you get $4k?

The only Civics I know that are that expensive are the Civic Si, and the higher end EX-L model w/ a bunch of options. That’s in America and paying sticker price. When buying new and negotiating, if they won’t budge on the MSRP then they almost always will throw in some of the premium upgrade options.

You got fleeced :(

This is Canadian. and no I didn't. Cars are literally just that expensive. I bought this straight from the dealership and even negotiated 700$ off. If you go onto Honda Canada's website you can find almost the exact same numbers.

Edit: As I said in another reply here, I was putting that comment out to emphasize that cars cost a lot more than what you see in Ads. Once you include freight, taxes, and finance fees it all adds up.

This is Canadian.

Maybe specify that then lol

My point was that there are a LOT more to cars then the sticker price. Not the specific cost of this car.

So you're saying cars are more expensive than people here are saying, yet your car is actually $24k after options and calculating interest on the loan, which is in line with what other people are saying?

This is a post about making better life choices. Buying a car saying you can afford 19k when its closer 24k is a shitty life choice

People on Reddit like to feel really fucking high and mighty, telling someone that they should have bought used instead of new.

I am a huge saver. I have more saved than probably 90% of Americans but fuck if I'm getting a car I'm not in love with..not some gently used car. I live in a big city and I drive a lot. I'm going to enjoy my ride.

it's still possible to get a car you love that is gently used. buying a certified pre owned car means you get a practically brand new car with warranty that is probably 20% or more off brand new. and with that money you save buying used you can get a higher trim I if you want.

just some quick googling and a brand new civic touring is $28k while a 2016 civic touring with 18k miles is $20k

I’m a car fanatic, therefore, that one year or two year difference is huge to me. The newest models are faster and have the latest updates in technology, apps, etc. it’s my personal preference and as someone who is otherwise financially solvent and responsible, I don’t understand why the majority on reddit like to act holier than thou over this issue.

True. I wasn't attacking you personally I was just saying

I bought my car new. Because I didn't need a car in 3 years after saving £200 a month so I could buy something that would potentially break down on me and leave me stranded, I needed a car NOW so I could continue going to work and earning money. Being able to buy a car that I could have in a couple of weeks, that came with a warranty and servicing, was worth more to me than the couple of quid I could have saved myself on the cost of the car.

And how long do you think that $15k car is going to last you until it's a giant piece of shit?

A long fucking time. My 3k$ car is going strong at over 15 years old with oil changes, minor suspension work, and a timing belt. I've had it for 5 years, I'd sure as hell hope a 20k car is good for much longer.

Uhh, $20K can get you a nice new car.

Indeed it can. I see people quote new cars at like $30,000-$40,000 but you can get solid new cars for $20,000 or even commuter cars for a decent amount less.

I got a nice new Subaru Impreza in 2014 for 22k. Definitely a solid car and I’ll have it paid off in just a couple months. We have been looking at bigger cars for our growing family and 30-40k will get you a new mid tier suv. Or you can buy them a year or two old for high 20’s. I’m not really sure why people would want to go spend 30-40k on a car at this point.

I have a 2016 Forester and it's amazing. Same price range as imprezas really (I had a WRX before too, totally get it). Subarus rock.

I got a barely used 2015 Mazda 3 sport for 12k. You don't even have to go near 20k to get something nice

Damn, I bought my '14 new, in 2014, for $20k on the nose. It's a great car and I don't have to worry about whether the previous owner messed it up ... but I can't help feeling like I flushed $3-$5k down the toiler.

Ah, well. At least this way I can assume it'll last >10 years (I've had some bad experiences with sub-$5k used cars and I finally said ... fuck that).

It honestly depends where you buy the car. Up where I live they were going for 19k each, but to the east and south of my state they range between 11 and 14k. Lucked out on a 4 year warranty and only 30000 miles too

Also depends what options high 20s new isn't unheard of.

Forester's are a tad more. I just did a lot of car shopping, and they were running around 28k. I ended up with a Honda Hrz EX for 22k, and quite honestly it's a wonderful car. I don't know why I would need anything more unless I have 3-4 kids. I wanted a Forester, but it was just a tad out of the range I gave myself. But I have no regrets so far with the HRZ.

Really? I got my base model for under 21k out the door. I guess that was 2 years ago though.

possible they jumped the price when it sold well

I'm comparing that HRZ with the Hyundai Kona. Not sure what to do yet.

The Honda magic seats are pretty awesome. And the 3 angle rear view cam is sweet. The side view cam is cool also. My wife doesn't like driving much, so i tried to get a vehicle that made it safer for her. Curtain air bags are a +.

They really do! We’ve been eyeing the new Ascent, but that price tag... if we can pick up a used one a year or so after they come out, I’ll be stoked

Dude, that VW huge SUV with 3 rows of seating starts at 30k, and that is all the SUV you will ever need.

I live in NH. I wish I was willing to buy cars that weren't AWD, but I'm not.

My 2010 Impreza had a leaking head gasket, and I said fuck it. I'm not sinking that money in...

New car payment wasn't really in the budget, but the used options I was looking at were inky a couple grand cheaper.

Said fuck it and pulled a chunk from savings. Between the down payment and trade in, I financed under $6k on an '18 Impreza Premium.

Get a wagon :D

My truck was $5000. It was old but never gave me any serious issues. I would rather buy something outright in cash than use credit.

I would also, but i have a baby due in June, and the safer the better. This car has sooo many air bags. Rear view cam with 3 angles, sied view cam. So many safety features. Im not going to risk my babies safety, that's for damn sure.

Hell, I’ve seen 0 mile current model Mitsubishi mirages advertised at $9,999. Shit car though.

New cars are still kind of a waste of money. I bought my 2012 model car used in 2013; only a little over a year old and it was about $9000 cheaper than the new model. The initial warranty was still good and everything.

I also fail to see how that's possible. All of the used models I was finding were not that much cheaper. What type of car was it. There is no way my car would depreciate 40% in one year.

It was a 2012 Mazda Miata Grand Touring, all the bells and whistles-- leather seats, upgraded Bose sound system, 6 speed transmission, etc. Worth ~$30k new. I bought it for ~$21k. It was in the winter when sports cars are in lower demand, it wasn't a Mazda dealer so they wanted it off the lot, I was coming back from Afghanistan and got a veterans discount -- a lot of factors in my favor.

It was in the winter when sports cars are in lower demand

Depending on where you are, this can have a big affect on car selling/buying prices.

Was once working in a pawn shop and this gal was arguing with the manager on why he was only offering her 10K for some kind of sports car she was trying to sell.

He told her outright that it is a sports car that would be lucky to be running 3 out of 12 months around here. Now if it had been a SUV with 4 wheel drive it would have been worth a lot more.

Granted, but issues from not doing oil changes, transmission fluid changes, basic maintenance and such won't display itself sometimes for many miles. How many miles did it have on it?

I don't remember exactly, but I think it was around 20k. Higher than normal for a car that age, but it had maintainance records and a warranty extension from the dealer. It's a little two-seat convertible roadster. From what I understood a retired couple bought it for road tripping, went on said road trips, then acquired dogs and needed a bigger vehicle.

Buying a used car requires more due diligence. It's not an easier purchase, just a cheaper one -- and I find that doing the legwork is worth the several thousand dollars.

Well yeah, but you are describing a good deal. Like finding a grandma who has an old accord she drives on sundays and keeps in the garage, but decidss to sell it for a cheap price, because she can't drive anymore. Those are pretty far and few in between. I wish i had more time to buy a car, but mine was stolen, and that didn't allow for months of searching. Or even a month. It all happened pretty quick.

My comment wasn't judging your purchase of a new car, dude. You do you. You don't need to validate it to me.

A lot of people think deals like that don't exist, but they do sometimes. Sometimes you just have to jump on them even if you don't need them.

Couple years back picked up a 92' Cadillac, good condition, only 72k original miles and was well taken care of.

Had 3 owners before me and they were all grandma types. When I got it, it had been sitting for 2 years and fired right up with a new battery.

I got it for $1 because the owner (a friend) wanted to get it out of the garage.

I didn't need the car at the time, but couldn't pass the deal. Now it is our "daily driver" (neither me nor the g/f drive much)

Yeah, the deals exist, but from what Ive seen, they have to essentially fall on your lap.

I got it for $1 because the owner (a friend) wanted to get it out of the garage.

I hate you a little bit right now. I miss my old 93 Cadillac Eldorado.

Yep, bought a brand new Nissan Versa for $15.5k after tax. Not a "really nice" car but its been fantastic for me and saved on gas.

I would never spend 20k on a new car. You pay a huge amount over gently used and that's pretty bare bones at 20k. I don't want to pay much per month if I have to settle at all. I'd rather have smaller payments to allow me to save. If I buy new it's going to be fully loaded or close to it cause I want all those features. If I can't get the features I want within my budget I keep saving and that increases my budget. Don't pay that huge mark up for new if you are settling on anything. Just get used and save for what you really want and need new.

There are pros and cons to both sides. People seem to think there's one right answer, but that's just not the truth.

There's a lot to be said for a brand-new car, full warranty, and peace of mind. Your claim that you save a ton bugging used entirely depends on what type of car. I live in New England and have driven Subarus for years. Their resale value.is super high, and you don't save very much at all by buying a lightly used car. I just bought a car two months ago, and I was looking at saving a couple grand I going used. I'm not sacrificing the warranty and the first the years if arriving a be new car for a couple grand. Made much more sense to pay slightly more for something brand new. I didn't want a big car payment either, which is why my trade and down payment covered about 75% of the sale price.

But why would you spend that much on a new car when you can get something less than 5 years old(and much, much better) for the same price?

Note: I did something similar and bought a new car(1.2L hatchback no extras) for £14500 when I was 22. I worked out about 3 months later that while ot was nice, I could have been driving around in a 2/3 year old Merc or Audi for the same price.

Wait, what? You're asking why someone would buy a new car instead of a higher end 5 year old car that for the same price?

More money doesn't mean better. You're either paying for features, or the brand name.

Not everyone cars about luxury begins with every bell and whistle. I'd take a brand new Subaru/Honda/Toyota for $20k over a 5 year old car for the same price every single time.

If I'm buying used, it's to save money. Not to pay the same as a brand new vehicle would run me.

No, I bought a Vauxhall Corsa for that price, with nothing extra in it. Had a cd player and radio, but no bluetooth or digital radio, no USB link, no heated seats, and no heated windscreen. I could have had a 2012 Audi A3 for the same price and it had all of that, or a Mercedes B class for less, and it had even more.

Not saying it's always the best option but it definitely would have been for me, and probably would be for others.

Most people? No.

Some maybe. If you're spending new car money, it's often silly to buy something used and out of warranty just so you can get a few luxuries.

Out of warranty? How does buying cars work where you are? If you're speaking new car money, then you have enough to buy something even 6 months older and it'll be thousands cheaper.

You referenced cars as old as five years. Most cars are going to be completely out of bumper-to-bumper warranty at that point and may be out of or near the end of their powertrain warranty.

If you're saving thousands and thousands of dollars on a car that's six months old, whatever make you're buying holds its value poorly.

I've never even heard of bumper to bumper warranty or powertrain warranty. Our warranties are cover-all and get extended every time something is claimed, regardless of the number if owners, as long as the service book is kept up to date and it hasn't been sold privately.

As an example: brand new Toyota Avensis costs at minimum £18000, but there are car dealers selling 2018 registered same variants for £14000. Get one 2 years old and it'll be less than £10000.

Okay, I didn't realize you lived outside of the US. Apparently your warranties are way, way better than ours. When you buy a new car, the warranty covers everything for about three years or 36,000 miles. After that, only your powertrain is covered until you hit five years or 60,000 miles. That's things like engine, transmission and things associated with those major components. Outside of that period, unless you purchased an extended warranty when you bought the car or from some third-party afterwards, you have no warranty coverage at all. You're telling me anytime you have to make a warranty claim your warranty gets extended? Regardless of what the claim is? I mean, what if you bring it in to have some obnoxious rattle on a new car taken care of? Are they really going to extend the warranty and cover an engine malfunction down the line because you had them address an interior rattle?

Basically yes. I had it explained to me that if you care enough to take care of your car then the dealership will too. It works imo, because that same dealer(and same salesman) has had 8 cars out of my immediate family alone in the last 6 years, 2 of which were brand new.

But even then that's not why I'd stick to buying a used car, it's mostly how much they devalue. I've looked at a few others just now and one that really stuck out to me was that you can buy a brand new Audi A4 for £27k with absolutely no extras(not even alloy wheels) or you can get one 8 months old with 9k miles on it for £25k and it has all extras apart from rear parking sensors(but has a rear camera). So for me it's used cars forever.

8 months isn't bad. But when you're hitting 3, 4, and 5 years and not even saving a ton of money, it's harder to justify. The resale value on Subarus over here is crazy. They sell for not a whole lot less than the new, unless it's already got 60k on it, which I'm not interested in.

No joke. I was drooling over leases on cool cars that would be 15-17k for 3 years. After realizing how dumb I was being I bought an awesome 1 year old sedan with leather seats, peppy engine, fancy stereo, and the rest for the same amount of money. Even if I trade it in after 3 years and it's worth less than half of what it cost me it's still a good 5 grand cheaper this way

What car is 1 year old, $17k and has a "peppy" engine?

Yeeeeaaahh if it’s far less than 17k and only a year old and peppy its nothing short of a miracle

For some people “peppy” could just be a small hatch or something. The “only a year old” part makes it a bit odd but something like a used mini or fiat I think are less then 17 and pretty fun to drive

2017 Golf TSI, $17.8k before negotiation, 170 hp & 200 ft-lb, 3000 lbs. Lightly used Golfs are ridiculously cheap. Another option is the 1.6L Hyundai Elantra sport, which is 200 hp @ 3000 lbs. I see a couple listed for ~$19k new, so $17k after a year or two should be easy.

That’s a great deal, great car.

Could you get a base model Mazda 3 for that?

I got my 2015 Mazda 3 I sport for 12k the other week...

I wouldn't consider a base Mazda 3 to be peppy

Peppy is pretty subjective. It's not fast, but I'd call it peppy, for it's price point. They have the "zoom zoom" slogan for a reason.

Got a fusion with the 2.0l ecoboost

Dodge Dart, Chevy Cruze, Ford Focus, Hyundai Elantra are all 160+ HP cars that you can buy brand new for under 17K

Please don't buy any of these if you can help it. I see people try to trade these in 2-3 years later when their transmission has failed (popular in these sized cars) or when their family/personal needs have grown and they need something bigger. You're going to be VERY upside down in value. You'd be better off buying a used Ford Fusion, Honda Accord, or Toyota Camry. Chevy sells bulk to rental agencies, Dodge is well.. Dodge, Hyundai hasn't proven its resell value yet (same with Kia) so these brands aren't as smart of a buy. And imports are just unrealistic as economic vehicles due to repair costs.

Focus only had issues with automatic AFAIK, the manual ones were fine.

The Fiesta is included with the Focus in the lawsuit against Ford for the automatic transmission. I made the mistake of assuming the manual Fiesta was fine.

I bought one lightly used (~28,000 miles) that was fortunately still under warranty. The transmission made a lot of noise -- whirring, whistling, etc. Ford replaced the transmission. The new one was just as bad, if not worse. One day, as I pulled off the highway, it sounded like rocks were rolling around in my engine. Ford replaced the transmission a second time. The day I got it back, it still wasn't right, and I traded it in for a new Toyota Corolla.

Talk about new cars losing their value the moment you drive them off the lot? After 5 months of owning that car, I lost $5,000 on the trade-in. The price I paid and the trade-in price both agreed with online price guides (Kelley Blue Book, etc.), so I don't think I got ripped off, relative to market pricing.

I've spent most of my life driving older high-mileage cars ('87 Acura Integra, '94 Honda Civic, '96 Dodge Neon, '97 Saturn SC2, '03 Saturn Ion), and that Ford Fiesta was by far the worst. Don't do it.

Right but that doesn't apply to like 99.9% of the population in America, so I didn't include it in my statement. You are correct.

I’m not recommending any of them, just saying there certainly are cars that are no more than a year old, (or even brand new) that are “peppy” and under 17K. Seems to be a number of people that can’t believe such a thing exists.

I recommend buying a good, dependable, used vehicle. Cars depreciate so fast that even a 1 year old luxury car can cost thousands less. My last car was an S-Type Jaguar that I got for 19,500 with less than 30K miles and still under warranty. I drove for nearly a decade until I blew it up.

Currently I drive a C.V.P.I. that I got at auction for under 3K. I’d rather pay off my mortgage than make car payments.

I got my 2014 Hyundai Elantra at COST (sister worked at the dealership) and when I went to trade it in less than 4 years later with VERY little mileage I was shocked to find I was upside down on the loan. I decided that day never to buy another car. I only lease now. No worries about what the value is doing, how much left I have to pay off, etc. Anything that goes wrong with a lease is somebody else's problem (unless I crash the damn thing). With Toyota I don't even have to pay for oil changes or tire rotations for the first 2 years.

Why is a Focus a huge no no, but a Fusion is recomended?

Fusions are just better overall. The main difference being that Fusions don't have the mechanical problems that the focus has and the Fusion resells way better. Granted, you'll be upside down in almost every car if you finance too long of a term, but it's especially bad in the compact car.

I bought a car in February. Found that instead of defaulting to 60 months, they used 63. I know 72 month deals are more common, and some even allow you to go longer...

When they started trying to ask me what I wanted for a monthly payment, I put a stop to that shit right away. I'm not negotiating that nonsense, I'm negotiated the price of the car.

I needed a car, as I wasn't willing to pay thousands to correct head gasket issues on my 2010. But a car payment wasn't really in the budget right now...

I said fuck it and took a chunk from savings. Ended up financing under 6k, 0% over 48 months. At least I'll never be upside down!

A Genesis coupe ? I think

They dont even make those anymore.

Can find a year old used Focus ST for about that much. 250 peppy horses.

Maybe a fiesta ST not a focus

I am seeing tons of 2016/2017 focus st for 17k~. I'm in North Dallas.

Well, color me surprised, those things are depreciating like rocks! I guess I was thinking of them like wrxs and sti's keeping their value.

Don't the engines on those have a problem with siezing up?

Leases are for people that want new cars every couple years. Buying is for people content to keep their car 5+ years. At least that's the way I look at it.

Leases are for cars that will start to cost you once the warranty runs out. Buying is for reliable cars.

Yep don’t do this, I’m 21 paying $590 a month for a car. It’s a nice car but I could have gotten a beater

See I could afford 200 a month but I can’t afford 10k. If I really really tried... maybe 2/3 years and I’d get a nice car. Guess that should go on a mortgage instead.

Fuck me I hate being an adult

You can still get loans on used cars. Getting a lower interest loan on 2-4 year old car will be much better value than buying brand new.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. A 10K car will probably have loan payments of around $200. Do you just not have credit history/bad credit?

Bad credit from a student overdraft going into arrears. Also, it’s surprisingly difficult finding the best company willing to loan me that. Or even the car. Usually the dealerships are expecting a few grand down but that’s just not going to happen

What kind of car did you get?

Back when I was your age, that was the five-year-loan monthly payment for the $60K Saleen S281E that my dumb ass was planning to buy once I graduated the for-profit pretend-fancy art college that was trying to convince me to choose them at the time and got the fancy high-paying job they were insisting they would enable me to get.

(Luckily I didn't attend the college. Ironically, it was because their tuition was also $60K for a two-year degree and I thought that was a bit much.)

I got a basically brand new Jetta. I have a 9% interest rate because I had no major prior credit history, and since I’m 21, my insurance was sky high. So my car payments are $310 and my insurance was $280. Luckily, I shopped around recently for new insurance, and I found a plan with more benefits that’s only costing me $170 a month now, and soon I might refinance with a lower interest rate. Yeah it sucks, but my credit score is actually pretty good for a 21 year old

So my car payments are $310 and my insurance was $280.

I feel like you made it sound like your car payment alone was $590 but I feel you on how you pretty much have to add the two to get the true monthly cost of driving.

Anyways, yeah being a male under 25 fucking blows when it comes to insurance. 21 especially. It should slowly go down every year though until you hit 25 and then you'll be praising the heavens when the rate should really go down. I'm down to about $50 a month for car insurance at 25 years old. It gets better.

Ahh, all right.

I hadn't even thought to include insurance in the monthly payments, that's what threw my. (Mine is a six-month lump sum and that's how I think of it.)

Why did you get a Mustang?

l used to think like this but after all the mechanical fees, l would’ve saved money just by leasing a new car from the get-go.

I spent $21k and outright purchased a brand new car.

And then had to spend $700 2 months later when I hit road debris and scraped my car pretty good.

Dude, this is so powerful when you do the math. Not only are you paying loan origination fees, interest and possibly other fees that is also lost investment opportunity.

You are literally paying for the privelage to spend money that you don't have that will be worth less in the future due to inflation at the expense of saving that money and earning investment profit. A 5% loan can rob you of so much more. 20% credit cards a sickening amount. Payday loans a criminal amount.

Before buying yourself into that payment, put the money into a separate bank account for 2 or 3 months and leave it there. If you can't get used to doing it for a couple of months, how do you think you'll manage for the 5-to-7 years on that loan?

But i dont have four years and 20k, i have one day and $450 since my car died and i need something reliable.

You can get a Porsche Cayman for around $20,000.

I see a lot of people driving Porsche Cayenne around here. You can get used for about $5000 easily.

Then pay $5000 each year on repairs and maintenance 🤣

On the other hand, a $20k/4 year lease allows you to to drive a much more expensive vehicle(around ~50k range). For some people, it's worth it(like, I pay about $5k/year for my car and it's absolutely worth it to me). And it's not like I could pull out 20k out of my pocket to buy something outright anyway.

I only spent $13,000 after taxes on a 3 year old car with 45,000 miles. It wasn’t high end by any means, but it looks nice and is fun to drive, it’s reliable, and my payments are low for a 5 year loan. Oh and it’s certified pre-owned. Idk why you would stretch yourself thin on a new car lease or buying a new car when it’s easy to get something nice cheaper.

insurance is only $450 a month

Holy shit what?

they mean the car lease and insurance together are $450/month

Assuming a standard 250/month car payments, you'd be paying like 200-300 a month in car insurance jesus.

What is this "standard" $250/month that you are referencing. It could just as easily be $320 with $130/month in insurance. The example wasn't necessarily about the price of a car so much as people thinking about whether they can afford a minimum payment vs. shelling out $20K+ over a few years. It's easy to look at the car you want, see "Only $200 bi-weekly" and think that is affordable because technically you can afford to spend $200 every 2 weeks.

Even though its words the + operator works the same way as with numbers.

Welcome to being a male under 25 in America

I'm a 22 yo male in the US and I pay that for 6 months of car insurance

I pay like $275 for 6 months lol...and it's not even bare minimim coverage. I drive an old paid off beater though so no collision or anything extra.

What state do you live in? In Florida, as a 29/m they wanted 450$/6mo for the absolute minimum. That whole “insurance goes down after 26” is a lie.

I am now happily self insured.

What kind of car do you have? Accidents or tickets on your record? Those will jack up your insurance. A lot of companies charge more if your car has 250+ hp

It’s an 04 TDI Jetta. No tickets, but a couple of deer over 7 years. I do put about 35k miles on it a year though. I was carrying comprehensive coverage (at 750$/6mo) until it occurred to me that two years of that is the cost of the car, and the Ins. Company would likely total it out for pretty much anything, rather than fix it. So I started shopping around for minimum coverage. And then I decided to just save that money instead for repairs or replacement when the time comes.

It’s called a “certificate of self insurance” for anyone interested, costs nothing, and only requires a statement showing a net unencumbered worth over 40k$. The people at the DHSMV didn’t know what it was initially when I showed up to get one.

PS: every state has different requirements. My numbers are specific to FL.

I've never heard of this! Is this in the states?

It's state by state, but I think that most states allow self-insurance.

Cool, I'm in Texas I'll check into it.

Huh ? You cannot possibly be self insured for liability in America and think that it’s a good proposition. No way in hell you should have anything less than $500k in liability and feel ok about it

I recently renewed my license and I recall seeing a self-insured thing where you only needed $10k. I'm not entirely certain though so take my words with a grain of salt.

It really does depend on the state. In the case of Florida, there is a limitation on liability for accidents of $40k. 10k for property damage, 10k for single person injury or death, 20k for multi person injury or death.

It’s worth the risk to me, but I’m not particularly risk averse. YMMV.

PA. I'm 28 now, but I've been paying around the same rate for the last several years (Geico)

Yeah, I don't have minimum coverage either. I think mine is lower because I've been under my parents insurance since I could legally drive and having continuous coverage makes it lower (I'm not under their insurance anymore but it still counts since I've been covered continuously).

Fuck. I just paid $600 for 6 months with a clean record.

You are fine, that sounds about right. Being underinsured and paying very little sounds great until you hit someone and have a claim

If you're paying $450/month as an under 25 male in America you did something wrong from an insurance point of view

Or they drive a Lambo

Could easily be a WRX with an at-fault accident and a couple speeding tickets in a metro area honestly

My WRX was $140/mo when I first got it (for 100k/300k, minimum would have been like $120 instead). No accidents, no tickets, no claims, I'm over 25 and been with the same company for 10 years. But it's gone up every 6 months and now it's $190/mo. It's ridiculous.

Or you live in a metro area and that’s actually right about right with a clean record

I'm an under 25 male without a clean record and don't pay anything close to that.

Entirely possible but no way in live in some metro areas where that’s just commonplace. I moved from CT to NYC and went from paying 800 for 6 months to 400 per month just because it was NYC, same driver, same record

I'd have tried a different insurance company at that point. I paid $250/mo for my $50k v6 sedan when I was under 25 with a clean record in NYC.

If you're paying $450/mo for a lease and insurance, you either didn't shop around for insurance or got a pretty nice vehicle. That's on the customer for paying that much

Or live in a no fault state...

At "minimum payment" it's more like 200% if we're talking the forms of revolving credit available to the average 20 something.

It's very important because minimum payment on a credit card often means you won't ever pay it off. It's so much more expensive.

I just charged a few thousand on my credit card. I got a statement today. Making the minimum payment, my card will be paid off in 18 years.

Assuming you aren't charging new stuff (yeah, right) they are required by law to set the minimum so it can be paid off in X amount of time, I think it is something like seven years. It's an absurd amount of time though, considering most people buy stuff like electronics on credit cards. That TV is barely going to last seven years. There will be a new Xbox out in that time. You get the picture.

Your incorrect use of "then" makes a second, also pertinent point.

I assume you meant “than” instead of “then” but I like how it sounds with “then”

There's also the important consideration that the minimum payments are a recurring expense for a one-time purchase, and it's highly unlikely that that purchase is going to satisfy you for the entire time it takes to pay the thing off.

If you have trouble waiting until you've saved for it, you're going to have the same problem with the next thing you want to buy, and if you're not careful you'll end up with no money because you're paying the monthly minimum payment on several expensive purchases, and feeling oppressed by having to pay so much for things that aren't even new anymore, and like you deserve something nice again, what's another $25/month when you've already got so much debt.

The best thing a person can do in that situation is develop the ability to wait until they can afford their desired purchases to buy them. There's the occasional reasonable exception for things that won't be available once you can afford them, won't be available at that price when you can afford them, or are otherwise emergencies, but if it's that important it'll be worth paying off without "rewarding" yourself with another impulse purchase, and not turning every successive purchase into some justification of "but I need it now."

Tried telling this to my oldest daughter. That and savings I think are the two main things I could recommend. Take 10% right off the top each paycheck and throw it into savings. Live off 90%.

My favorite way of doing it break it down by how many hours I would have to work to afford it. That has stopped me from sooo many impulse purchases

I tell them, if they can't pay cash and don't need it, then don't buy it.

I tell people to add up the cost of the item plus all the interest they will be paying on it based off minimum payments. People are always shocked when they realize what their going to pay once the full price is paid off.

I think that’s just bad research

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Funny to see this since my friends and I (all in engineering school) regularly talk about how soon after graduation we'll hope to buy a Cayman or Boxster. I know it isn't realistic and I won't have one till I'm like 40+ but a guy can dream.

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Haha that'll be me. I'm gonna drive this '07 Ford focus of mine literally until it dies and maybe at that point I can get a used Cayman. Still talking like 10 years from now tho.

'07 focus here. The only thing that makes me want to sell this car is that mine has a 5 speed transmission

More reliable, more fun to drive, and lower repair costs? Five-speed manual is where it's at.

Oh rip mines automatic, manual would be much more fun

a true buy for life car right here

Lol the focus or the Cayman?

buddy's focus is at 500k km . you tell me

No kidding dude. I have a pretty low-paying job but still aspire to have some kind of electric car (like a Tesla) someday. Just got an '09 Ford Focus that I'll have to drive into the ground and back though.

Young engineer here. You'll have it way sooner than you think. You can easily have a $60k car, a small home, and save for retirement by the time you are a few years into your career. At least most types of engineering, in most industries, in most areas of the US.

Really? Sick, cuz I promised my dad that when I get one he can't drive it

How does having a Master's change those numbers?

Really depends on who you work for. Some industries highly value advanced degrees. Some don't value them at all. FWIW I was the only person that I know in my graduating class who didn't accept a six figure offer right out of the gate. Several people got six figures with five figure signing bonuses. Clearly as a bachelor making $100k+, it doesn't take long to make the kind of money you need for a $60k car, if that's what you want to spend the money on. Not that I recommend most people do that, but cars are my main passion in life. I don't need trips to Europe 3x a year or a bigass house. Give me a C6 Z06 and a 2 car garage and I'm a happy camper.

Damn 6 figs right away? Hopefully I can achieve that. But yeah not sure if I'd buy a super nice car right away because computers are more of a passion for me than cars so I'm more likely to spend 15 grand on a god tier setup before buying something like a Z06. Mind if I ask which field of engineering you and your friends are in?

Note that I was the only one who didn't get a six figure offer. Grades apparently matter, who woulda thought. We were all mechanical engineers who went into oil and gas. It's probably worth mentioning that I took a significant pay cut to change industries after a few years because the work I was doing was sucking the soul right out of me. Overall I am much happier now. I also highly recommend you indulge the hobbies that were "just out of your league" prior to starting your career first. There's years worth of stuff to get wrapped up in that would have been expensive prior to graduation but just isn't expensive after. Save the really expensive stuff for later, but have fun in the meantime! Computers is a great choice.

Hopefully I can find myself in a similar position. I'm doing space-oriented Instrumental Engineering Physics. It also wasn't until I started talking with some people about this and what I want to do after graduating that I just remembered I have to pay off my student loans so now I'm sad. But yeah all I could ask for is a killer computer build and I'd be so content. Maybe someday I'll find myself in a Z06.

Pay your student loans aggressively. Make it a goal to get them paid off as soon as possible. By the time you have them paid off, you will have spared yourself the main period of lifestyle inflation. Put the money you were throwing at your student loans into savings, for a home or a car or whatever.

Sorry, not to preach, just giving advice from someone who is a young professional who did go a little too hard post graduation. Not too big a deal but I'm purchasing a home a year or two later than I had originally planned because I spent a grip of cash on 4 (and 2) wheeled toys

Haha sounds like you had fun, but thanks for the advice. I plan to try to be loan free within 2 years of graduating, after than I'll have fun dropping cash on computers and maybe a BMW R nineT

Super overrated, just get an S1000R if you're not looking for a supersport ;)

Yeah I've been through two vehicles and two motorcycles in the past 4 years since graduation. Some silly decisions to be sure, but it was fun and I didn't tank myself. Just put myself a year or two behind on some other goals. I don't have many regrets, heh

Eh I'm not a huge fan of sport style, I like Scramblers and cafe racers. I'm sure I definitely can get something more reasonable than an R nineT but that's the style I'm in to

Also a fan of the Thruxton R

It's not realistic? Wat. 2014-2015 Caymans with 20k miles are like $37-40k. Starting salary where I went to school was on average $70k. You can hit $80-90k salary in 4-5 years. Even if you make like $75k and live in a low cost of living area a $37k Cayman shouldn't be unattainable.

Man I didn't know how low the cost was for a slightly used, 3~ year old one. I haven't legitimately priced this out yet because I'm a sophomore and I'll probably do my Masters right away so I'm not gonna be working or buying a car for like 6 years, but good to know it's more realistic than I thought

Ya new they're quite expensive but used they're actually not too bad. Same thing with the M3/C63.

Pshh engineers should know better.

99-01 Miata plus an ls1 swap. You'll save 15k get better times, and look at boxter owners like double wide Vette owners 😉.

MiAtA is always the answer.

My best friend at my Uni just picked up an 01 Miata LS, that thing is so much fun to drive. But realistically I'm just gonna drive this Focus till I can't and shop for something in like 8+ years

Aye aye Lance Corporal.

Financing a car in general isn't a great idea, but I get needs must and people need transport to get to work

What I don't understand is financing anything more than a used Camry or something if you're broke. And I know so many people with ruinous car loans.

What about an '09 Ford Focus with hella low miles?

Here's why.

For 3k plus interest you can finance a used camry that will break down within a year, or for 6k you can finance something decent that either won't break down, or at least comes with a good warranty.

Where were you 4 years ago when I needed to be told this?

Oh man, story time. When I was 19 or so I thought I was a genius and decided I needed to patent one of my genius ideas. I picked the best genius piece of shit Invention could conjure up in my braid, drew out illustrations of said invention and called up 1-800 idea or whatever the number was on tv commercials at the time (not a patent attorney). I went to the patent company office and was swiftly talked in to signing a $18,000 loan application for them to do patent stuff (similar patent research, illustrations and “marketing” in relevant publications that nobody reads). What a time to be alive, and boy was it a slow suck to learn that the idea would never take off, and I was stuck paying this rediculous loan at 19. I’m not sure how but I managed to stay afloat pretty well and pay it off over few years. Silver lining is that my credit there on out has been phenomenal!

So curious - what was the genius idea?

Social media app for the fleshlight

wouldn't you like to know... just so you can rip off my genius un-patented idea!

People have blown more money on lesser things. At least your credit is good.

True, after it was all said and done I was glad it was paid off, and better for the experience (and credit).

Jesus... I'd have declared bankruptcy before paying those scammers a dime. I'll gladly pay someone for providing me with value, but if you say you're selling value and give me bullshit I'll fuck myself over without hesitation if it means I can fuck you over even half as much.

the thing is, I didn't think it was a scam. As far as I know it was a legitimate attempt. I got a full book full of illustrations, similar patents and ideas, market research, and the publications that they were publishing to. I just took a while to see that my idea sucked ass and they didn't inform me of such.

Do not declare bankruptcy for any manageable debt. If you end up actually needing to declare bankruptcy before the previous one is cleared, you are screwed since you won't be able to discharge the debt again. The company will be easily be able to get a judgment on you, and your wages will be garnished.

I have friends in their 50s who never learned that one.

They are the kind of people who would buy this fucking thing, then promote the fuck out of it just because they spent a lot of money on it.

My friend was in a jewelry store waiting for his watch to get fixed and told me of the conversation he overheard. A woman was shopping for an engagement ring with which she wanted to propose to her partner. She liked one but loved another, more expensive one. The person helping her out (who from the sounds of the conversation was friends with the shopper before she came in the store) made a call to get the amount she was approved for raised. She came back and said the most she could get financed for was a $1,900 ring. And the woman picked the ring that was around that price point, with financing. Without trying to sound snobby, $1,900 isn't even that much for an engagement ring. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a small/inexpensive ring, but if you haven't managed to save up $1,900 to pay in full (plus having to pull strings to get financed for more money), you probably CAN'T afford to be financing it and should go with something you CAN afford. It's just a stupid rock; find something you can afford at the moment and wait to upgrade once you have the funds if it's something that is important to you.

Conversely though, if you are responsible, start building credit card points or cash back. You're losing 1-5% of your worth by not getting it back in points if you can handle the card.

Bought an $18,000 car. Horrible decision on my mediocre income.

I bought a 41k on my paltry salary, it’s awful

what do you consider paltry

Still better than buying a $40k on that income.

I've seen people do that (not that I know what your income is).

Which is why student loans are a crumbling racket that should be regulated much more. They take advantage of ignorant young adults with no experience in finance (thanks to no child left behind, economics education is almost non-existent as a requirement for high school graduation) and charge them ungodly interest on the false promise that a degree is enough to "afford" it later on.

Imo, companies like Sally Mae (and the debt collectors they sell the debt to) should be held accountable on RICO charges.

This. 100%. I had no clue what I was getting into

It's all about keeping the disenfranchised, the ignorant, and the poor in check. Modern loan companies, banks, insurance companies, healthcare, and for profit prisons are the replacements for American slavery. Slavery was considered an institution in and of itself, only now it's subsidized to fuck everyone regardless of color.

Just found out my girlfriend had been doing this with credit cards for months. She has a long tough road ahead

First and foremost understand personal finance. Take a class on it. You will know more than people 10-20+ years older than you. If you can learn this in highschool you will be very well off. Take the class from a reputable college. Don't fuck around with the internet. The internet will burn you.

My mistake was learning this at 27. My finances are stable but only actual regret is not taking the class sooner

True, here I am spending almost $70 on groceries that I think would help my diet. And then there’s a $90 minimum credit card payment leaving me with almost nothing in my account.

It’s my days off until the 24th and the payment is due the 24th. I get paid in tips so I can’t afford to to wait until Wednesday. l figure I’ll make tips that day so I can deposit them and pay it then. Lmao

How do you have a $90 min?! Mine is $25

It's usually a certain percentage of the balance (around 1-2%) or a fixed amount, whichever is higher. So working with your $25 fixed minimum, your carried balance is probably $2500-5000. Any higher, you'd get a higher minimum payment.

Unfortunately semi-low credit. It’s a scam lol

I knew credit cards would be the top thing before even clicking on the link. High school should have a finance/ budget type class

High school should have a finance/ budget type class

Some schools do, but sadly it doesn't seem to be the norm

So. Much. This.

I know the US has passed laws walking back the predatory nature of CC companies giving 18-20 year old college kids credit cards with swag and what not... but that didn't happen until after I'd gotten boned.

I got wrapped up in the rewards points, and making minimum payments... and just thought ("sure I'll put textbooks on the card! Sure I'll put gas on the card!")

The worst thing, was how the credit card company was more than happy to keep raising my spending limit as I approached each new one. Oh my limit is $2,000 and my statement is at $1,800? Well, a nice letter would come and say "hey we raised your credit limit to $5,000!" then it would happen again and again.

Long story short, eventually I learned better, graduated, got a good job, and paid all the credit card off.

Funny, I had to actively go ask the credit card company for credit increases when I started paying the balance in full every month.

Yeah, they're robbing you. But what do you expect for unsecured loans given to pretty much everyone? The interest is so high because of the risk of default; if you have decent credit or collateral, you can get loans at more reasonable rates.

They do make it too easy to get into large amounts of debt, but it's not as if they hide it really. Every card I've ever got came with an introductory letter with the APR bolded.

We got a mortgage we 100% didn't understand at low $700s. The next year it went up to $870. We're fine and can afford it no problem, but if we didn't account for changes we'd be screwed.

Why did it go up to $870?

It was our fault. Had to do with the escrow account.

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Ah I see. Thanks!

It had to do with the escrow account. Didn't 100% understand how it worked, so we were short, and our mortgage went up.

This got me W O K E

My general rule is that if I’m gonna finance something, I better be able to pay twice the minimum payment (except my mortgage!). If you can pay twice the minimum payment, you’ll not only pay it off faster but be able to pull that extra payment away from it if you have an emergency that month. The trick is to not have an emergency every month. Our only debt right now is our mortgage.

Every month, I pay the amount of my car loan into a savings account, so it's the same amount as paying twice. But then if an emergency happens I have a few thousand just in case.

Pay cash for everything; if you can't afford it, budget to save for it. Fuck visa out of some money.

I was out to brunch with my girlfriend and some of her friends. One was talking about how since she's in grad school, she can only afford the minimum payment and now she keeps getting interest charges. I kinda chuckled and said "Well that's how credit cards work" and both her and another girl at the table said they didn't know that. I couldn't believe two 25 year olds didn't know how credit cards worked.

Yes. I see this all the time. Its blowing my mind how many of my friends in their 20’s talk about their payments to things like their cars and credit cards as though the minimum payment is a reasonable thing to be making. Almost like they don’t realize they don’t have another option.

Making the minimum payment on a car loan can be a good thing if you have a really cheap loan.

Car loans are about the cheapest loans I can think of. I come out slightly ahead letting the money sit in the bank and collect interest.

That's assuming good credit, though.

I guess that’s true. I was thinking more when it’s all in combination, when you’re already making payments to a number of things, unable to build up savings, and then adding in a car payment because “the monthly is only X”

Oh, you're definitely right.

Credit cards should be treated like an emergency, and I treat my mortgage like one, too (paying my 30 year loan off in 10 years -- that's my reward for buying a house that's a lot cheaper than what the bank wanted me to buy). I hate having debt.

I just make a small exception for car payments as long as the interest is really low and as long as I have enough sitting in a bank account to pay it off all at once. In the event that my car dies for no reason, I don't want to have two car loans.

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It won't hurt you, but you'll pay interest on the amount you didn't pay off. So next month, if you want to pay off the whole amount, you'll have to pay more than the amount you owed last month.

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PAY IT OFF as soon as you can. The interest rates on credit cards are downright usurious. It will snowball rapidly if you don't get it paid off within a month or two.

Here is a good article about credit card minimum payments and why you should try to pay off your balance as quickly as you can.

Sorry I'm not big on finance, what's minimum payment mean in this context?

If you buy something for $1000 with a credit card, instead of having that $1000 to pay in full at the end of the month you make the credit cards minimum monthly payment which spreads that amount out over many months and interest piles up. In turn that $1000 turns into alot more.

Is the minimum payment more than the interest being added? Or is it possible to go deeper in debt while paying back the minimum amount?

If you only ever pay the minimum amount, chances are you'll never end up paying it off in full. It depends on the interest rate on the card - the higher the interest rate, the more debt accumulates each month on the principle (that $1000). With good credit, you can get a lower rate card, but if your credit is janky, it can be quite high, and your interest can be higher than the minimum.

Many years. Minimum payment on a credit card with 24%(sadly, common) and a $1000 charge is a 72 month pay off with $885 in interest.

I wish I could give you two up votes for this

Wish I had taken this advice 5 years ago. Racked up a bunch of debt being young and dumb. Got a better paying job now but still feel broke because I’m trying to play catch up with all my debt.

I remember I leased a brand new Audi A4 for $300 a month because I thought I could "afford" it on my minimum wage part time college job. I didn't realize how much insurance would be every six months.

Oh like student loans where the total is 4x your starting salary?

Gonna hijack your comment here.

I don't necessarily agree with the "extension of your bank account" ideology with credit cards. It is not an extension, as that would apply that you can just spend your money another way. For me at least, it can be misleading to spend 20 bucks on a CC, have the 20 in the bank, and think "I can just later replace the bank!twenty that I'm using to replace the credit!twenty.

A credit card should be a buffer. An analogy that makes sense to me is that you can hand your message to the recipient directly (spend bank money) or you can send it with someone who loves to travel (and will often reward you for it) who will deliver it for you. If you get mugged at the delivery point, you're kinda fucked. If the courier gets mugged, they will often fix it at no real consequence to you.

I always tell people a credit limit on a credit card is not how much of something you can afford, but the length of a noose to hang by.

I would give you more gold but I spent my 20s confusing my ability to afford things and minimum payments.

Extend this to student loans too. It's weird how my friend group is split between those who are nearly sent free and those who just paid they minimum amount. The former aren't living month to month at 30. The latter sound like they are still living like they are students.

There's a verse in a Jay-Z song that goes along the lines of "If you can't afford two of it, you can't afford it at all."

To add to this, never co-sign anything. It doesn’t matter how good friends you are.

Yup. Especially for family.

This is my life.

Truuuuuuuuu, crawling my way out now.

The minimum payment is a mathematical formula that will have you paying forever

Sounds like my parents, and they are almost 50, don't do it guys!

I wish I understood that better in my earlier 20s.

So much this. I've met people in their 30s who are still paying credit card debt carried since their 20s.

Yep. Feeling that one right about now

I'm not entirely sure what you mean (non-native speaker). Can you explain for idiots?

Turning 33 this year and this was my first thought. Just this month paid off the last of my 20's spending habits

Yeah I never understood why people are okay with paying interest on a purchase like that. My friends and I all turned 18 somewhat recently and most of us got credit cards. The way some of them use them blows my mind. I try to explain to them that what they’re doing isn’t good for them but they don’t care lol

Yes but can make bank account purchase things with 37 cents? To me, my credit card is free money that my future self can pay off. Probably terrible way to look at it but being in college inhibits ones ability to work and provide adequate living compensation.

Paying more interest than what I spent is great when it comes to minimum payments!

Definitely a 100% terrible way of looking at it. "Paying it off after college" sounds great, but conveniently ignores how many other expenses there are in after college life.

That said, if you do end up making a fortune out of college, you'll be fine. Such is the American dream.

Only applies to a very small amount of people though.

Unfortunately I feel like this extends to older people too :( some never learn about finances

I actually just got my first credit card (21). Every time I use I immediately pay it off. It's weird, I have to schedule each payment. I can do the same day though

Just money in general imo. I graduated college not long ago and made the decision to save every cent I had from internships and side jobs to pay off my student loans. Left college debt free. Meanwhile I saw people using their student loans to go out on extravagant vacations or as soon as they got a job out of college, bought a brand new car.

Hah yeah. And banks offering "approved up to" or "pre-approval" on things. Likes it's great that they'll let you buy a $40k car, but remember you were looking around 15k?

And the old, $2k credit card can be bumped to $10k, just say yes after thinking about all that stuff you want to buy.

30 year old here! Fuck my early 20s aged self for making me pay back all that shit I don’t even use anymore.

I wish I would've read this years ago.

Only $5 a month for the next 360 years!? Hot damn I'll take it!

Made this mistake from 18 to now, basically. Still trying to break this terrible habit (and also get myself out of debt). My credit score is shit and I’m paycheck-to-paycheck when I really shouldn’t be. It sucks, and I wish someone had slapped some sense into me a long time ago.

I always think to myself "at my current income, I could afford to get a Tesla and then not have any kind of fun for the next 4 or 5 years."

Jay-Z once said you can't truly afford something until you can buy it twice. Obviously with big payments such as cars and houses this isn't exactly good advice, but it is really good advice for anything thats not exactly a necessity.

A person I work with thought that by paying double their minimum payment on their credit card that they were also covering themselves for the next month. Got a notification that they were missing payments and said "WTH, I paid extra, that's all my money".

Anyway, my point was paying on principle is not the same thing as making 2 payments.

no the problem is being poor, not misunderstanding credit

Can someone explain this? So how do you know if you can afford it?

I learned this too late, still trying to be a responsible adult and swim above the debt.

You should be able to pay off your credit card every month in full. If not, in most cases, you are overspending. A credit card is used just so you can rack up rewards points. That’s it. Don’t use it like a loan.

Yup. This is a lesson I learned the hard way and am just beginning to fix.

This guy r/personalfinance

People say "why don't I get a new car"?

My car is very old, classic actually, but not in amazing condition.

However, I have a few grand owing on a card and I'm not buying a car until I have essentially saved for it.

Like buying a house. People ask "why don't I buy a house instead of renting, rent is dead money!"

No, what's dead money is barely paying interest on your home loan, or negatively gearing it if you're even more crazy. At least now I have no real commitment, I can move if I need.

I'll rent until my financial situation is better and I have the income to support a more aggressive plan to pay it off.

Asfor my card, Im currently dropping 1-1.5k a month onto that card to pay it off asap, it'll still be a few months.

My goal is to have a "reverse credit card".
Ie, I will have 5 grand in the bank I use like a credit card, and pay it back like it belongs to a bank. I'll never pay interest again and instead will earn interest.

Edit phone fingers*

Minimum payment is maximum profits for the banks! :)

personally I never bought anything I wasn't able to pay in full at once and I don't think it's ever going to change.

(and, in some cases, that obviously meant saving money before being able to afford it)

Yup. There's a big difference between being able to buy something and being able to afford it.

yup, racking up credit card debt is not a good habit to start and a terrible way to start your financial life.

Having money to buy something and then affording to maintain it are two completely different things.

Ive started to notice and become aware of how damaging a lot of internet memes that get circulated on social media can be nowadays to do with money, amongst other things.

So for example, take one that's like 'me every time i look at my bank balance' and its a gif of someone crying or something. On the surface it seems amusing and harmless. But when something like that gets lots and lots of likes and comments agreeing with it saying "haha this is literally me!", then it makes the person viewing it think that their situation of having zero money is okay..'because look how many other people have the same problem, that must mean the way i'm looking after my money is normal..phew, ill just carry on doing what i'm doing then and it should be okay.' It advocates poor life choices and gives people a comedy comfort blanket they can bury their head in.

Marrying the wrong person.

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No, but you can be shaping yourself.

Successful young relationships are more about growing together than they are finding a perfect fit to begin with. The problems arise when many couples grow apart...

I agree. I've been extremely lucky with my husband - we've been together since we were 17 and it's been like growing up together - but it could easily have not worked. I think it worked for us because we each have natural strengths that complement each other's weaknesses, and so our being together while becoming adults helped shape us to become more strong, healthy people than we would otherwise have been. I guess it's one of those things that can work if you're lucky and have exactly the right sort of person to grow with, but could easily backfire in any other case.

Successful young relationships are more about growing together than they are finding a perfect fit to begin with. The problems arise when many couples grow apart...

That's a nice sounding sentiment... with basically no grounding in reality. People have different experiences, they'll grow differently, and they don't ask for their spouse's approval before changing. The idea that people can just... always be compatible when they change is something out of feel-good fiction.

If you share your life and try to share experiences, you can mitigate a lot of this. Not for certain. Not guaranteed. But you can try.

And if you grow apart, recognize it and do something about it. Even if that something is separating.

did you discover who you are after? and how did it inform your next choice?

Came here looking for this. Surprised it is so far down. It was my biggest mistake in my 20s.

How do you know if it's the wrong person? Don't most people marry under the assumption it's the right person?

It's really not that simple. Do not marry someone unless you feel they're on your team 100% though

Even then people change. Sometimes people just let you down, or want different things, and you just have to take the steps to move forward. (My husband of 7 years just left me and I'm 27, never saw it coming). Sometimes life just sucks for a while and you have to keep working on it.

Edit: holy crap I never thought I would ever get gold. Thank you very much kind stranger! And if you are relating to this, don't give up! Life eventually gets better, but don't forget to take steps to work towards the betterness. It sounds so cliche but I truly think life is what you make of it.

True, that's just my personal experience that I thought was telling in hindsight. But I think the people change thing is very important. You always hear you can't change someone but the more important point to consider is that people will change.

So true! And sometimes people grow and change together, but both parties have to be willing/want to. Relationships are so hard sometimes.

I’m sorry to hear about the break up, your optimism gives me hope! Time heals all!

The only constant in life is change, unfortunately not always for the better for both parties. Good luck on your process of change!

You know by marrying for the wrong reasons, e.g. money, sex, loneliness, etc.

Aren't those like the 3 main reasons everyone gets married?

And kids (but that can go under loneliness)

Yeah then don't do what everyone does. Why do you think the divorce rate is so high in the US? When you truly love someone, you'll know. But if your love is because of other reasons other than that person, you're in that relationship for the wrong reason and you won't be happy

Honestly curious. Are you married? Or have you been?

Yeah I was married for 2 years, I married young... Ever since that break up, I've thought about relationships so much, just about every aspect of it ... I can honestly write a book on relationships and marriage

Friends of mine just split because the wife lost like 6 stone and gained a lot of confidence and wanted to go out and enjoy it, guy had got used to staying in with her and didn’t want to go out/make effort any more. Nobody saw it coming, least of all him I think.

How do you tackle when your girlfriend wants to propose within two years?

What is her reasoning? I think that typically, deadlines are unhealthy.

But remember that women have biological clocks, so most women do have to have a good sense of whether or not the relationship will be locked down so she doesn't waste time if it isn't going to happen.

It’s not complicated but I think pressures from social media and being at that age where she doesn’t want to be stringed along. She thinks dating should be a purpose to love one another but also find your soulmate and spouse. I love her with all my heart but I told her I want to be financially ready to propose and have a good job that will be able to provide for her. Also, if I am trying to look at rings then I need to save up. I am not really in a position put down a whole lot for a ring but I want it to be meaningful and special. I know what she wants but sometimes I feel the pressure that if I don’t move forward on her terms then she will move on and I’m afraid of that. I want to be with her forever but I want her to realize that things like marriage is a serious thing to discuss and it shouldn’t be something like a life accomplishment. You should do it out of love for the other person and wanting to be with them forever. Idk there’s a lot things I want to do. If I had a better job that paid better then I would definitely be saving money for a ring but I can’t right now. That’s something she doesn’t really understand. Also, she comes from a good upbringing and even though she has no debt, her parents have paid for her schooling and bought her first car and they really take care of her. Finances are important to me and it’s perfectly logical to think about that stuff too but she doesn’t think that way. Idk man.

How old are you guys? You are completely right, money matters.

I don't see the reason to rush. Attention on social media lasts, maybe a few weeks. Marriage is for life, and divorce is one of the most painful and difficult things that anyone can go through, as you can see in other comments on this thread. I think rather than framing it as you not having enough money for a ring (something that doesn't really matter anyways), just be honest with her and say you aren't ready. You aren't doing anything wrong by saying that. If you aren't ready or want to live a little more unmarried first, that is okay as well.

Where I live and in the community I am in, women are very independent and don't typically want or need men to provide for us because its expected that women have careers of our own, so maybe that is part of my perspective.

I'm 31 and she is 24 respectively. We live in Texas and it seems like there is more pressure especially in the Southern states to get married young. Idk why but I do think about marriage. It's just when I am financially able to do so. I want to be able to be in a good position to do so.

Same. Now I'm broke in terms of my money and my heart.

I was too. Fuck my ex. Worst person I ever knew.

How did you feel when you got married? What were your expectations?

Going thru divorce now. Wasted so much of my life, and my stress levels will definitely have long term health effects.

Me too. My hearing is tomorrow morning. This has been the most dificult thing I've ever gone through. The worst part about it is knowing that I can no longer trust the one human being who I leitterally felt connected with at the deepest possible level. Like I can't even describe how much it just made sense to me that we were 'one' when we got married and now I can't trust her any more. It's just mind blowingly painful.

Good luck man, you'll get through it. I'm less than a week from serving her, so it's been lots of fighting. I found out she was cheating on me, again. I was dumb enough to buy the excuses the first time, but found the evidence this time. Knowing she was being served, I was bawling at work realizing the feeling you described is officially over. Best part is that I'm still the bad guy for serving her without a conversation first. Did I mention she was an emotionally and physically abusive alcoholic that I did literally everything I could to help (enable?) her?

I finally know what it feels like to be dead inside.

Best of luck to you friend, you'll get through it. Wish I could give you a hug.

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I will, but selfishly I don't want her to be able to lead a normal life after this. I put her through medical school and I feel used for that, now that she can make money she clearly didn't need me. Luckily I had work pay for my MBA and I've stayed in great shape, so I know I'll be okay outside of the mental scars.

Thank you!

Thank you. I appreciate the support. It sounds like you're going through a lot more than I am. I never had to serve my wife she agreed to sign the papers saying she wouldn't contest anything. But yes I am getting blamed for ruining the relationship too since I am the one who hired a lawyer and filed for divorce. My wife was not an alcoholic but she did drink a few times behind my back and lie to me about it. That hurt too.

My ex cheated and that sucked, but I think the worst thing was all the lies, right to my face, over and over until he got caught. Even then, he wasn't remorseful, and maybe that hurt the worst. It was years ago and I'm in a much better place, but it really tore me up for a while and he couldn't have cared less about the damage he did. Good riddance.

Oh God that sounds familiar. I have dates, photos, texts, etc and she has no idea. I've been trying for over a month to get her to just come clean and she won't do it. I'm afraid I've lost the ability to trust people in a relationship. Were you able to get over that? Sounds like you came out great on the other side.

Well, I happened to meet a wonderful man who is absolutely nothing like my ex. He is not my ex, so I can't project my old fears onto him, it's just never happened. I have no reason to mistrust him, so I don't. It also happens that I really, actually love this man. I never felt this way about my ex, not even at the beginning of things. shrug

Best of luck to you. You don't need her confession to walk away, you know. I understand why you want it, but don't suffer needlessly. It won't really prove anything you don't already know, after all.

That's really helpful. I've been cheated on before, but marriage is something different. My view has always been, unless you have me a reason not to trust you, I'm going to trust you. Your story gives me hope, and although I still love my soon to be ex wife, I hope I can find someone that feels the same about me.

Glad to help, even just a little. Again, I wish you the best!

It's unfortunate that these people seem to think serving the paperwork is considered running the relationship, not the lying, drinking, cheating, whatever. Best of luck friend, it will all be okay!

Living this lesson now. It is remarkable how it just rewinds all of your life plans by several years once it falls apart ans eviscerates your finances.

I never believed the old "it takes time to really know someone" thing. But it's so true. You don't know someone until you have been together for about 2 years (imo). In that time, you should live together, go on a vacation together, and meet parents (see how they treat their parents/family). In a new relationship, you are happy and it has a way of pushing your bad habits and things you need to deal with to the wayside. After the honeymoon phase is when you really get to know someone.

Also, hormones like oxytocin and dopamine are way out of whack during the first 1-3 years of passionate sex with someone.

I would NEVER partner up with someone til that initial sex-rush has tapered off.

Came so close with a woman. We were together for 2 years. Broke up with her because she was pressuring me to have a kid. Even tho I felt like we were soul-mates, and the physical affection was sensational.

Now it's 5 years after we broke off, and I'm SO grateful I didn't rush into it.

Can't even imagine being married to her now. I would totally have resented jumping into having a second kid before truly wanting it.

And guaranteed the sex wouldn't be NEARLY as frequent or enjoyable now ..

Happened to my sister and my cousin. My sister had doubts while she was engaged but did it anyway because she felt she had to. NEVER FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE TO. Go into your future wedding with peace of mind- if you have doubts, talk to someone you trust.

For the record, my immediate family and best friend all knew that guy was a piece of shit but we didn't know how their life together was, so we all enacted a live and let live attitude towards him like we all do for each other. My sister finally opened up to my mom a couple months before they got divorced and I wish she had sooner, but I'm glad she did at all.

This was almost me. He walked himself out one day after we talked about it.

It’s been 4 years and every day I wake up, I can’t believe I get to do whatever I want without worrying that it’s going to backfire.

A relationship where you have to walk on eggshells is not healthy.

And boy, did I upgrade!

Happened to me. My ex ended it with me cos she "just didn't feel it anymore and didn't the whole time". Yeah thanks you piece of shit. Maybe if you told me this at the start you wouldn't have had to put me through all this, take our life savings and ruin my heart or my trust in people ever again. But hey, as long as you're happy. That's all that's important.

Relatable man. Time will help. On my last break up people said that and I didn't care but it's two years later and now Idgaf. Resentment will always be there though. But the hurt will go away

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This is a complex question. We are all (hopefully) human. Humans are limited to our perception, which doesn't tend to extend beyond what we physically see and hear. This directly relates to how you may meet your significant other, whether it's at work, school, through mutual friends, etc.,. This limitation means we meet an unfathomably small fraction of the population, and if you factor in timelines, you might not even be born in the right time period. Meeting "the one" now seems like a daunting task that will take more lifetimes than have even existed on Earth. It's a scary thought, looking at marriage this way, but the key resides in your perception of life, instead of the physical aspects. Existentialism can be a comforting thought. It can help conceptualize the answer of finding the one. Focus on your purpose in life, what makes you be the best version of you, and run with it. Many people will run to catch up, and many will fall away. Carefully take note of those who push you to keep running when you're tired, who force you to stick to the standards you have set for yourself. Consistently provide the same in return, and you will find that more will continue to struggle to keep up, but a solid few will remain. One of those remaining individuals is "the one", your "one".

I met my wife at a crucial point in my life. From the moment I met her, my life changed. I was incredibly attracted to everything about her; her brain, her looks, her demeanor. Despite this, I simply assumed she wasn't interested, and ignored my initial feelings. We remained friends for the next few years, and hung out quite a bit, as we had a large group of mutual friends. It seemed just having her there changed my motivation, my drive, my purpose in life. At the time I had no clue she was inadvertently behind my personality shift. Looking back, I have no doubt it was everything I adored about her that pushed me to look inward, to learn more about myself and my strengths. She not only pushed me to start running through life as the best version of myself, but she began to run with me. Over time, my new found motivation allowed me to be a person I am proud of, someone who deeply enjoys life for the sake of living. A little more time passed, we grew closer and eventually started dating. She became my favorite person in the world. She is a person I never thought I'd meet. Everytime I look at her I fall more in love. She gave me the means to finding my purpose in life without even trying, and I can't thank her enough for that.

In short, that is how you know. Be patient, be kind, focus on respecting yourself, so you can better respect others. "The one" will find you in the end.

EDIT: words

These words are so so encouraging, I have feelings for my bestfriend that I'm not sure she reciprocates, but I don't worry too much about that. Just the state of being around her makes me want so much more, not just from myself but from life. We constantly push eachother to do better, while offering a helping hand when needed. She is perfect in every way and at this point if she isn't my "one" I'd be happy with just the fact of having gotten to know her so well.

The scary part is that we are both graduating from university this may. Were both 22. She has a career path lined up and I'm still working toward mine. She's offered for me to move with her, no strings attached, so that I might find more options in the city. Im in the tech field so the logic is sound. But I can't help having the feeling that there's hope for something more, or maybe I'm an idiot and she just wants a friend. It seems like a big jump, but I dont know what there is to lose?

I think at this point, there really isn't anything left to lose. During the first few years of our friendship, I not only focused on betterig myself, but I focused on defining my purpose within myself. It's important to draw that line. You need to understand the distinction between the fact that she has helped you become the wonderful person I'm sure you are and, despite her influence, you did this on your own, for yourself. This will help if you part ways for some reason. That isn't to say you can't grieve the loss of that relationship (if it happens) but it will remind you to keep moving forward. Maintain that healthy respect for yourself, and your relationship will continue to bloom into what it was meant to be. I doubt discussing your feelings with her would hurt, but you know her best. Play it by ear, be repectful, and listen to what she has to say. From what it sounds like, you have potential there, good luck!! Feel free to report back if you decide to talk things through with her!

My husband and I meet in January 2014 and got engaged that April. We didn't get married until the next sooner, but it always felt right and I've never felt like I made a bad choice and I never feel used or like I'm using him.

My mom says if you want to marry someone, the best way to see who they really are is to go through a bad time with them OR take a long road trip with them. We actually had both happen, I took him to Michigan with me from Virginia for my sister's wedding and we had a great time, then the next year my Nana died and we moved to Michigan right after her funeral. I think in four years we've only had two actual fights, and we both apologized both times.

PS communication really is key.

Your mom's advice is great.

Curious, is she still married to your dad?

Twenty nine years this Sunday!

Nice!

My parents have been married 40. They're miserable tho, haha.

I'm always interested in how parental modelling influences a child's decision whether or not to enter life-partnership. Def seems like positive parental example goes a long way to making marriage seem appealing. Understandably, of course!

Your parents seem moreorless happy?

You don't, you figure out about 15 years down the line when the spark is weak :).

youll know. Or at least you should know.

If that person isnt your best friend AND your lover, they arent the right one.

And even if they are... your brain is still physically developing through your 20’s, and a person shouldn’t expect to be the same as they were at 20 when they’re a decade older. Hopefully if you and your young spouse are really on the same page and communicating you grow together into the new versions of yourselves, but there’s no guarantee at all. If you think you’re the exception, you’re almost certainly not. I thought I was.

Imagine making life decisions at 10 that you were bound to at 20. No one wants to hear “you’re too young to do that... your brain is half-developed... even YOU will think that you were an idiot later...” or anything like that. 10 year old me was a naive idiot and I could see that at 20, but assumed the process was mostly over. 30 year old me thought 20 year old me was a naive fool as well. I assume / hope this diminishes as the years continue, but what I have now is an actual framework for what I want out of life, what I want out of relationships, and the priorities that are applicable. It feels like more of a process of slow refinement at this point.

fuck. I married my best friend but not lover.

Watchu mean

I don't find myself sexually attracted to my husband. But he's my best friend. We take care of each other. We support each other. We love each other.

I didn't realize what I was missing.

Meh, I strongly doubt most married couples have much sex 30 years in anyways. Strong marriages seem to have the qualities you just mentioned

Is it that you aren't attracted to him or he is unattractive or is it that you just never saw him as a lover, like he was always just a friend?

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probably not going to happen. He's a good guy and doesn't deserve that.

I have protection from this, my physical appearance.

Is this an american problem? I literally not know of a single friend who has gotten married that early. I have had only one friend of mine, who married this year in march and he is 27. Is there a lot of social pressure to get married so early in the US?

I agree. Marrying in your 20s in some extend. 20's is a rocky part of many people's life, finding themselves through their career, where to live, living through poverty, living aboard, etc.

Furthermore the "ride before you buy" still rings true for marriage.

I can’t believe this isn’t higher up. Obviously some of the choices above are terrible, but this one is sooo common. It didn’t ruin my life, but marrying that man was BY FAR the worst decision of my life...this coming from someone that has filed bankruptcy. The two don’t even compare!

I honestly don’t recommend marriage for anybody in a relationship less than 5 years and under the age of 25. It’s a manipulation game and millions end up on the losing side every year.

I'd argue that marrying at all in your 20's is a bad idea. You and your loved one's personalities are always changing, and they're still changing very fast in your 20's. And it's not like love is some super-magical force that will make sure you two always love each other's changes.

But if you do, realize it early and before you are in too deep (children, home, cars).

Marrying ~~the wrong person.~~

Marrying ~~the wrong person.~~

Not getting a routine of a healthy lifestyle. When older people say "it gets a lot harder when you're older", they mean it.

But, you can always start treating your body better at any age. Don’t throw in the towel because you’re older. Don’t make excuses, make goals!

Exactly this. Even today my wife and I have goals around hiking, back packing, powerlifting, archery, climbing, etc. We didn't start this until our early 30s and haven't stopped yet. Our goals keep getting a little more brave and it feels awesome.

+1 for archery. It's very under represented for how healthy it is for the mind

We're still new to it but I find it so relaxing. My wife didn't laugh when I named my bow Bill (Bill Bow).

Bill bow baggins

Perhaps, Bill bow Braggins one day.

How can I get into archery? It has always fascinated me but I haven’t thought to pick it up as a hobby yet

Find a range near you and honestly just head over. Tell them you're new and want to learn. My experience so far has been incredibly positive and I've met some fantastic people.

Recurved bows are fairly inexpensive. 350 Canadian will get you a very nice longbow. Arrows are the cost that keeps kicking.

I just watched a series on youtube to brush up on the hobby thanks to this thread.

One thing I'm still curious about is what is the arrow turnover like when just target shooting? Should I expect to replace the $60 pack of arrows every month, every couple months or what?

Assuming I'd shoot every weekend I guess.

Like has been said, heading to your local range is the best way to get started. They most likely have an intro class listed online, but if not, call them and say that you're brand new. They'll get you set up with gear so you can try it out. And then you can do a few months of open range shooting with rental gear before deciding on buying your own. Once you get consistent (not clipping frames, etc) and buy carbons, your arrows will last until you want to buy new arrows. And when you're starting out, I'd be willing to bet your range will let you borrow some of their arrows even if you have your own bow. I'd say to sign up for a class now, that way you can't back out later. Worst case scenario, you find out you hate archery, but you can now say that you've tried it. Hit your first bullseye though, and you're hooked ;)

Thanks for the advice, I'll yelp around for some ranges in my area and look for classes :)

For sheer damage as a newbie pretty safe bet that cheap aluminiums last from indoor into outdoor season. By that time your technique would have stabilised enough that you're getting consistent enough assuming decent coaching/you're ok at it that you can get some carbon arrows towards the middle/end of outdoors that are splined to you and your bow (have a look at the archer's paradox on wiki bit basically everyone needs to be measured individually for their arrows and the measurements depend on your technique/poundage). The carbons will last years if you're doing target shooting and are good enough to not clip the frame.
People like the thicker Aluminiums for indoor shooting and measured right cheap ones will be fine but carbons are king for outdoors

Thanks for the great info! NuSensei vids recommended the Gold Tip 6(5?)-pack ($60 I think) which seemed reasonable to me. I believe they were carbon, so it's good to hear that it lasts long

Hopefully your technique will be the main driver of upgrade rather than losing or breaking arrows is basically what I'm getting at. Your mileage may vary and some people are very quick to throw money at it. And depending how good they are they see results too.
Always chat to a more experienced person and always go in and chat to the shop (especially if it's well regarded) for second opinions.

That few seconds of airtime between release and the arrow hitting the target, especially at 70m, is one of the most satisfying feelings

For the meditative aspect I assume?

Not sure to be honest. It's something that's slow and methodical. You fire your three arrows then get to go see how you did and where you can improve. Adjust some settings on your bow or site and try again. It's a beautiful way to unwind after a rough day or week.

A lot of archery has to do with trusting yourself. Once you pull the bow all the way back, there's a certain amount of time before your arm starts to shake from holding all of that weight in the string. Often your instincts will put your initial draw close to the bullseye and you have to trust that your body knows what it's doing. And you have to be completely calm through the release. If you watch olympic archers, you can see that it's a very zen sport despite the stakes and pressure from close margins

said the wise old redditor u/pm_me_your_teen_tits . He is So wise.

What does it so healthy?

+1 for hiking and backpacking. I've got tons of trips/dayhikes planned this summer. Hoping to get real deep into the Uintas. It's really the only exercise I get at this point

Dont mention the U word on the internet! We dont want it to turn into southern utah -- the tourist attraction of the world.

It'll never be because people are lazy and don't like to hike long distances

How are you going with powerlifting starting in your early 30s. I'm doing a sort of mix between bodybuilding and powerlifting (focusing on both strength and size) and finding progress fairly slow. Definately happening but slow :(

I've been doing 5-3-1 and it's been great. I'm not worried about hitting huge numbers or being able to pull as much as the guy next to me. I'm only worried about being better and stronger than I was last week.

He wasn’t saying that you shouldn’t try to live (or start living) a healthy lifestyle later in life. What he was saying is that it’s considerably easier to break unhealthy habits and establish healthy ones when you are younger than when you’re older. For example, it’s much easier to lose weight and get yourself into shape when you’re in you’re 20’s and 30’s than it is in your 50’s and 60’s. It’s not that it can’t be done at that age, it’s just harder to do.

I started playing hockey in my 30’s and am loving it. It’s never too late for anything!

We didn't start this until our early 30s

Get out of here, grandpa

Do you have kids though? Do you plan to? If so, get ready for that to fuck up your "plans"

Nah, I've decided to not have kids. Since I was born 35 years ago the population of Earth has increased by nearly 3 billion. I have no reason to add to the exponential growth.

Enjoy the free time and money then, they definitely aren't for everyone. I'm choosing to keep the population constant - keeping it at 2 kids for me.

Why? I have kids and have a lot of these same hobbies. I’ve still made them work and now that the kids are getting older (5/7) they’re starting to get involved in them too. Being able to spend a Saturday climbing with my 7 year old is awesome.

My kids are doing the baseball/ soccer/dancing thing. We go hiking every once in a while, but its <5 miles. It will change as they get older, but you just can't do the same things you would do alone as an adult. Like, I would never do a multi pitch day climb with my 5 year old. I would LOVE to do the John Muir trail but can't for another decade

You don’t have to wait a decade to hike the JMT. Hike it in sections if you need to, but don’t put off a dream like that for a decade. Too much uncertainty in those 10 years. If it’s really important to you, make it happen.

That’s awesome. Good for you guys! Me and my boyfriend are in our early 20s and have been noticing our bodies falling behind after a few years of not being as active as we should’ve. It’s kind of scary but today we’ve just started taking yoga together. Not as intense as powerlifting but we haven’t been to the gym in forever so, baby steps. Always been a little bit afraid that we’re starting “too late” so it’s nice to hear that I’m very wrong.

If you can get older and progress positively in all aspects, (health, finances, happiness) it feels awesome.

There's a Chinese proverb about this sort of thing. The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

I've literally never heard of this proverb in Chinese, and I know a lot of Chinese proverbs.

~Confucius

Confucius say, man who buy drowned cat, get wet pussy.

^("Just a bot trying to brighten up someone's day with a laugh. | Message me if you have one you want to add.")

True. I'm in better shape in my 40s than when I was in my 20s

So I can do this later? Nice!

Exactly what I gathered from this. Neat.

My dad just started to run daily and hes like 60

Very true. Life in my 20's was difficult and the last thing on my mind at the time was diet and exercise. Fast forward to 40 with a number of health problems that would improve if I just ate better and exercised.

Hear me out on this; I'm not a health nut and fully believe i modern medicine and pharmacology. I asked my doctor and the various specialists what would work for me based on my overall health and the health conditions I have. I'd never start anything without checking first.

I sopped eating fast food, junk food and drinking soda/pop, even diet. I drink a ton of water (partly due to kidney disease) and dropped my caloric daily intake by roughly 800-1,000 calories. You'd be amazed at how just cutting the above out of your diet will really do. I wasn't hungry all the time after about 10-12 days of cutting the crap out of my diet. The first few days were rough, but once past it, it's not bad at all.

I lost 30lb over the course of a little over 3 months with only diet. Feeling a little bit better and that I might actually be able to endure exercise for more than a few minutes I started on the elliptical at a comfortable pace watching my heart rate to make sure I wasn't overdoing it. In 5 weeks I've lost another 10 and feel great. I've been able to cut several medications out over the last few months as well given that certain blood counts are now within a normal range.

Something that resonated with me was "if diet and exercise were a pill, it would be the most prescribed pill in the world."

It's important to move your body in some way that excites you or keeps you going. You don't need to be a crazy exercise person, but everyone needs some level of regular activity.

The pain of exercise you are putting off in your 20s will show up as aches and pains in your 30s.

So very true. Once my joints get a little more used to the impact I’ll start running at the park system near home. Nature is my thing. I took one of the dogs for a couple hour walk yesterday. It was nice.

i'm 32 and i just started running 3 weeks ago! yoga too. i already feel stronger than i have in a decade. woo!

I've noticed the biggest problem people have is also the easiest to fix. Their diet. Simply stopping with processed foods and turning to basic home cooking, cutting out sodas and candy/sweets can change the lives of so many. Without a single dumbbell ever lifted.

But, that saying isn't saying they are throwing in the towel because they are older, it's harder.

Yup, my sister was pretty much obese into her mid 30s...she's late 30s now and completely transformed herself, didnt think it was possible.

I'm 44 and started Karate about 9 mths ago. The good thing for me about starting it at this age is that I'm more focused and dedicated. I find that my 40s have been far better than any decade in my life. I guess I'm a slow starter, but I'm okay with that. I can afford what I want and know that if I start it I'll finish it.

But after your peak you can only get so good, yet never reach it.

I've lived the last ten years of my life just getting fatter every god damn day. I'm 27 now and I finally got some very motivating news the other day, so I just got home from a ~5.5 mile walk/hike around a town with a ton of elevation changes and holy shit.

I've spent some of what might have been my best years an obese mess, so here's hoping that I can keep this going long-term.

My dad always says “when you’re fat and old like me,” like nope! You’re fat because you don’t exercise!

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now

True enough. I only just recently started being really concerned with how I was actually treating myself in terms of dietary consumption and exercise. I'm 28.

Earlier is better, but it's never too late until you're dead.

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time is now

Maybe tomorrow

Absolutely, a good training routine in your 20's will lead to physical and mental health in your 30's and 40's - this has been studied too.

Good to know. In that case I'll wait till I'm older.

True. But right now, if I said you could walk 100 ft for $100 or swim a mile for the same $100, which would you pick?

I agree people shouldn't use it as an excuse but most advice I hear from older people is to make life a little easier not that you shouldn't do something because it is hard.

Even the tubbiest lardass can do the C25K training regimen. All it takes is discipline.

And it makes sense. Your body only gets more wore down as you get older. Similar to a car.

I'm 34... it's already started. Although a big part of it is my kids take all the attention that my job doesnt. Very hard to exercise

Depending on the age you could stand time in a way that requires you to exercise. Take them to walks or catch or sports. Make it a family activities. It gives the bonus effect of instilling healthy lifestyles for them too

Yea, now that the weather is just starting to get better we are doing that. This last weekend was great... the previous weekend hailed + sleet. So, hopefully we are out of that

It takes an hour a day to be in excellent shape and even less to be in good shape.

Yup. And I'm saying even that is tough to get. I've lost 80 pounds at one point in my life so I know what it takes... but I think people here may underestimate just how exhausting kids can be.

And I work through lunch more often than not.

I don't even have kids, and I can't believe anyone thinks an hour a day is not a massive amount of time.

"It only takes an hour a day, you lazy bum"- said nobody with kids

It's true. Evenings are packed with kid stuff. Luckily I have the luxury of a hour lunch. That's been my time to be active. Bike rides, running, yoga class. Sometimes the day simply calls for a nap or a longer walk. It's worth it. I also wish I could tell my early 20s self to lay off the beer and sleep more.

... typed by and read by a bunch of people wasting time on reddit.

Preach. Get off Reddit talking about getting in shape and go for a walk. Hell, read reddit on the damn treadmill

That’s why I’ve been training my 1-1/2 year old to attack me on sight. Really gets the blood pumping.

This is genius haha

Yeah, I have started getting up early twice a week to do a short high intensity workout with a friend. Only way we were both able to fit it in given we both have two young kids. Both of us have got that dad bod going on now :-/

Before the kids, I lost 23 kilos by eating right, 45 minutes at the gym 5x a week, and taking the train instead of the bus to work to add an hour of walking to my routine. Post kids that all stopped, and I started subbing sugar in for the sleep I wasn't getting, so I've put about 15 of that back on... Gotta work hard to get rid of it, don't want to be a fat dad.

Yea, neither did i. I ran 2.5 miles today for the 3rd time this year. Really looking forward to the nice weather. I'm trying to make it a priority not to work through lunch, but in my position I have a lot of responsibility and members of my team are spread through a lot of time zones so I need to coordinate that whole mess. Lunch time for me is 9 a.m. for my San Diego people.

Nice, hope you can keep it up! I’m working contract so I know the feeling, most days I barely take lunch so I can finish a bit earlier and get home to the kids. Need to juggle that with growing my client base too, we moved to a small town and basically no one here knows what software devs do so it’s a hard sell...

Exercising does make me feel better though so just have to keep pushing through.

That's a big benefit. I often realize that unless things are on fire, I can totally take a lunch break... I just need to convince myself of that on a daily basis.

Yeah that’s the thing, a lot of times we put this stress on ourselves. Doubt anyone would notice if you popped out for a short walk after scoffing down some food - my kids wouldn’t notice if I started coming home 20 minutes later because I was doing the same.

You may already be aware of it but you may want to look at the keto subforum. I've lost over 50lb since 12/7/17 without exercise. It's been the perfect fit for the amount of personal time and energy I can allocate to myself every day.

I've heard of it. I'll check it out. Congrats on the 50 lbs. That's a lifestyle changing amount np matter what your starting weight.

Thanks! The energy boost and having my body back has been great.

As good as keto is everyone here should know keto can be dangerous, especially if you have undiagnosed diabetes. Ketoacidosis is the number one cause of death in persons with diabetes under 25.

Beyond risk to diabetics, improper nutrition can cause a massive amount of muscle loss as your body struggles to recoup nutrients and begins to basically eat itself. This can be seen by many as the diet "working" as your body sheds pounds, causing people to continue it or even double down, leading to permanent heart damage (the heart is a muscle after all).

I love the part about being in 'good' shape. I think people tend to forget there's a middle ground between being super fit or obese. I don't exercise everyday or eat super clean, but I do a little bit of both. I love my veggies and I love my cake. I love lazy days and I love going jogging. I'm not overweight but I don't have the 'perfect' body either. It's a balance. Everything in moderation, including moderation. There's more to being healthy than slogging yourself at the gym everyday.

An hour a days is only a small manageable chunk of time if working out IS your hobbies.

Meanwhile, those of us with a full time job, commute, and a home to take care of are laughing at your time for hobbies.

If you have kids, they are your hobbies.

If you choose to work more than 40 hours a week or commute more than 1 hour a day, you made that your hobby.

I laugh at you if you did those and now are jealous of those who didn’t.

Working 8-9 hours and doing chores shouldn’t take all of your time, that’s just being a person.

Exactly. I spend more time on Reddit daily. You have to ask yourself which is more important.

Priorities matter. What's more memorable? Being in great shape or reading all the replies on that post?

Yea but snacks are so tasty

I don't agree. Meat will always taste better than sugary garbage.

If you have 2 kids, 1 hour of free time is hard to find any day

Just remember... your kids would probably want you alive when they're 20 or 40, instead of dead from something preventable. You're useless to them dead.

Stay healthy. If not for yourself, then do it for them.

You're useless to them dead.

You're not very familiar with my life insurance plan.

I'd still prefer my parents alive than to cash out on their 7-figure life insurance.

(...unless I absolutely hated my parents and they provided no value to me... but I hope most parents aspire to be better than that.)

Did you even read what he wrote

He said he doesn't have time to exercise because he's taking care of his kids.

100% relate. I'm 34 with a 3 and 1 year old. Being able to take a shit in peace is a luxury. An hour a day? Lol

Mine are 3 and 2. So yup. I shit at work :)

An hour a day is extreme. But 15 minutes isn’t.

and 10 minutes twice might be even easier than 15 minutes once.

Cooking something on the stove? That's a great time for jumping jacks or at the very least some good stretches.

Waiting on a download? Stop surfing reddit and do some curls.

There are lots of ways to inject tiny amounts of workout time into your day, and anything is better than "I can't do an hour each day so I won't do anything"

Exactly!its just easier to make excuses than to actually do it.

An hour workout is 4% of your day

Now take out the time spent sleeping and re calculate

Recalculating...

87%

Either way, it is a small portion of your day. Even a 20 minute HIIT session can have a profound, positive impact on your cardiovascular health. If you’re awake for 17 hours per day, that’s less than 2% of your waking hours. Allocate the time....it’s there.

Then take out the time spent working, eating, traveling etc. Things you pretty much have to do in order to be able to workout. Suddenly that original 4% is meaningless.

So?

9 hours sleeping.

1 hour for shower and clothes.

30 minutes for breakfast

30 minutes for commute.

9 hours for work with 1 hour lunch break.

30 minute commute home.

1 hour to cook and eat dinner.

30 minutes to clean.

That's 23 hours in my average weekday. Now factor in all the little things in your day, like going to the bathroom, or cleaning up literally any part of your home. God help you if you have kids to take care of.

Finding an hour in your day isn't actually easy if you're a working professional.

You certainly have a long day, and I understand that it seems impossible to find an extra hour sometimes. It’s tough, but certainly worth it in the end. What are a few small changes you can make to your daily schedule to make it more efficient? Perhaps you could prep several meals at once and store them for later to save that hour around dinner time? Or maybe you could sleep an hour less on days you want to work out? There are many ways to begin carving out small chunks of time per day, even if they all total to less than an hour. I encourage you to give it a try, even if it’s only a day or two per week - you may even notice positive changes in your energy levels and mood. Take care!

Found another one without kids. Apparently you don't sleep either.

Or you know, like a body.

It's not the years, it's the mileage

If you didn't put on mileage, it was wasted.

I don’t know if that covers it. It’s more like your body just doesn’t recover as fast. When you are 20 and you push it too hard, you’re sore for a day or two. When you are 40 and you push it too hard you take a week to recover. Injuries build up. You don’t gain muscles from lifting nearly as fast.

When you are 30 lbs overweight at 40, it takes a LOT more work to lose it than when you are 20. Hopefully, at 20, you haven’t gotten 30 lbs overweight yet 😉.

I’m 18 and 58 pounds overweight lmao kill me

I was 19 and 90 pounds overweight. Within 1 1/2 year I was nearly underweight. You aren't fucked.

This is inspiring! I Gotta start putting in work then

Make small, easy changes to start. Having one less biscuit or fizzy drink on your first day is a lot easier than going from unhealthy -> bodybuilder diet. Succeeding at small things is easier, and it makes you feel more motivated. This eventually compounds and adds up and you will be eating healthy in a few months. Be mindful, but don't punish yourself!

While that's probably a good analogy it feels a lot more subtle than that.

You can not exercise for years and mostly feel fine, but when you try to get back in shape at forty find that getting to a level of fitness you expected to take a month takes a year.

Except you can restore a car to new and keep it going unlike a human body.

We can rebuild him...

Getting new knees isn't as easy a flushing or replacing a transmission.

It's not just physical difficulty. Time is a precious resource, and shopping, eating and exercising properly chews up a lot of it. Budget for those from the start.

How do you illegally reset the odometer?

This is why I stay in the garage waxing my body

Not only that, but finding the time to do it gets harder.

Not only that but I probably havent worked out since high school gym class

But your intellect and bank account get better =)

Take care of it the best you can and like a car it will last a lot longer if kept in good condition and properly maintained.

Similar to ~~a car.~~ LITERALLY EVERYTHING THAT HAS EVER EXISTED IN THE HISTORY OF EVER

Similar to a car.

Oh well I should sit around all day, and not use my self up! I'll be like a time capsule car with low mileage.

I'd say the opposite, the more you drive a car the more it gets worn down. With humans you actually have to use the stuff you have or you lose it.

I don't know if a car is a good analogy because the best way to protect a car is to use it very sparingly, they don't get stronger with use like our bodies do.

Absolutely not. Your body is not a machine. If you get your transmission fixed, you can drive the car immediately.

If you have a total hip replacement....it takes 4-6 weeks for the CUT tissues to repair and heal, through a complex process of scar-formation. If you do NOT take care of yourself and let the cells and tissues heal...you will NOT be able to do what you planned.

This “body as machine” metaphor is almost exclusively held by men. It is NOT real. Source: Am an RN

You're myopic about one part of the metaphor to support your sexist conclusion. There are many more common interpretations than yours.

Example 1: Car joints wear out. Human joints wear out.

Example 2: Leaving a car out in a field for a few decades exact match for physical inactivity; rust = loss of synovial fluid.

And a body IS many machines by the very definition of the word.

Surprise. Yet another dangerously arrogant medical "professional".

Have you ever had major surgery, or studied how tissues heal?

Started kickboxing 4 months ago at 36 years old. I feel like I have to work at least twice as hard as everyone else and I'm in 5 times as much pain as everyone by the end. If you have plans for physical activity later in life then get started on something now. If that doesn't sway you though then consider that until I started kickboxing my back hurt probably 75% of the time when sitting on the couch. Now I can laze around in total comfort, I just have to earn it first.

Holy shit this comment struck a chord with me....

Jesus, im gonna go get my bicycle ready for the weekend. Thanks.

until I started kickboxing my back hurt probably 75% of the time when sitting on the couch. Now I can laze around in total comfort

Being active makes your sedentary time more comfortable. Now that's a hell of a twist.

I ran every day for Soccer in high school. Now I try and run and get shin splints. It's not fun and totally random. Best to not stay sedentary.

Same here. I'm kinda fat though so I started riding my bike instead. Way better.

i consider myself in fairly good shape so im really confused :/

If you do get them. Try biking. It's better for your joints since running is bad for knees. That's why I bike tho I'm also not that old.

Exactly this, running is extremely high impact - for older folks or even people out their with bad joints biking is an awesome alternative.

Running is fine on your knees if you run the right way. You should strike the ground with the ball of the foot, not the heel.

I'm trying to get running and did some research, and from what I've read you're supposed to land on the middle of your foot, sorta on that outer part? If you hit the ball of your foot it can overextend your calves and shins and cause issues there.

Though that's just based on articles I've read, I certainly could be wrong.

Yep, that's what I've read. I was being a bit too brief in my answer and generalized to ball, but yes, it's kind of a mid-foot quickly rolling through to the ball. Hitting here additionally keeps your weight a bit more forward in your stride and prevents your knees from being locked (or close to) when striking, which actually can be bad for the knees. Correct form and you're good though (unless you have a genetic predisposition).

I agree completely - I ran cross country for a long time and over time your joints accommodate fairly quickly to handle the impact, however perfecting form is something that takes years upon years to perfectly master. Keep in mind it's not just your knees taking the impact it's your foot, your heels, etc - older folks a lot of time have a very difficult time keeping form and their joints struggle as a result.

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It's not that it never touches the ground, but it certainly doesn't take much weight. Here's a good video showing the style: https://youtu.be/TjrEyfQC5NQ

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yeah thats the problem with soccer haha, especially indoor. it's constant sprinting and darting around

My co-worker and I both did track and cross country, he has had knee problems since his 20s, I do 10 mile runs at 30 no problem. The other day we were talking about running form and he said "you know, heel toe, heel toe"

I wanted to face palm so hard

im not even out of my 20s yet :(

Have you looked into getting fitted for shoes from some running stores? When I started running I got the same and discovered that I couldn’t just buy whatever pair of shoes I thought looked cool, I had to get the right fit. Wife same thing. Went to a running store (Big Peach for us but I am sure there are a ton of options) and got fitted. Ended up never having the issue again.

Then once you know what fits you buy that brand and style from a cheaper place likes running warehouse or something.

Not that I’m saying it MUST be that. But might help for some.

I have some nice ones that didn't give me many problems doing a casual hill run once a week last fall, but now i'm playing on turf in soccer with turf cleats. so running shoes won't really help. maybe inserts of some kind? but i feel like they'll slide too much in the cleat

You might already know this but if you do proper shin muscle exercises you can largely avoid shin splints.

what kind of exercises?

Sit flat footed and stick a dumbbell on your toes, rotate your foot so your toes point upwards. It works the shin muscle. And it feels great.

Also, consider seeing a physiotherapist cos they're magicians.

Have you gained weight? I was (still am really) in the same boat as you buti noticed a significant reduction in shin splints after loosing 30 lbs.

i guess i've gained weight but im still ~170 lbs, 16% bf, 5'10", so not that heavy IMO. to be honest though, only 2 or 3 years ago i was down to 140 lbs for lightweight jiu jitsu competition. so over the past few years maybe my legs aren't used to it but i can definitely squat more..

I had the exact same problem but I fixed it by just stretching my calf/leg muscles longer BEFORE a run. I didn't believe this at first, thought I had the wrong shoes, all these problems but I just tried it one day and I haven't had shin splints since.

how do you stretch your shin muscles?

If you'd still like to run, go to a running store and have them watch you run and recommend a shoe that will prohibit the shin splints.

yeah i have running shoes that seem to have worked last fall. but im running on soccer field turf in turf cleats.

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You are one good looking man!

wait. what? 1 month ago?? that can't be right.

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ohh ok makes much more sense now after the edit. good work dude that's a lot of hard work there and it shows

I like how ur one month ago isnt fat at all, its mostly muscle. U dont need to lose weight from there because there isnt much to lose

Some of that weight must have gone to build the dog heh

To others reading this, don't go cold turkey on alcohol, it can kill you.

“Your first 30 years, you define your habits. The next 30, your habits define you.”

Exactly, is more like picking the right habits, but people tend to pick the wrong habits mainly because "I-young i-fun, fuck it", results in: terrible eating habits, smoking, not exercising, not drinking water, etc

Can you give a couple examples from experience?

My example. Was VERY active through high school and university. When I got into my career as a desk jockey I worked and worked and eventually fell out of touch with being active. 10 years and 40+ pounds gained later I realized how far I've fallen. It's taken me years of working out, doing new activities, etc to get back into shape and start feeling better. Trust me when I say that it was much harder in my 30s than when I was in my 20s. Recovery takes longer, you have to control your diet, muscles and joints randomly start to ache. Just have to fight through and it all and hope you don't get injured too often.

Those people thinking my gym routine is obsessive don't realize that it makes me look ten years younger and will probably add another ten years to my lifespan, plus I'll be enjoying those extra ten years. After a certain age, you don't workout because you like it (you still do), you do it because you have to, like brushing your teeth and getting yearly physicals.

That's another one to add. Brush your teeth. Tooth ache hurts!

Yeah, I wish I would of taken better care of my teeth when I was younger. Now I'm almost 40 (2 months away) and I'm having to get extractions and upper dentures within a month or so. Grew up mid to low class in America and never had dental insurance. Mostly didn't have medical either.

Luckily now I make better and can afford to get the dentures. I wish I could get implants but I was quoted 60k, which is an insane amount IMO.

Yes I know dental is cheaper in other countries, but you have to be able to afford the trip.

So what does your gym routine look like? Is there anything else that you think may be what is making you look ten years younger like your diet?

I mean, I always believe people when they said this.. I just never realized how fast we get old

Don’t think that way! There are 70+-year-olds that are healthier than 20ish-year-olds because they adopted healthy habits later on in life. Be one of the ones that puts us young kids to shame!

I totally agree. All the shitty habits that get out of control in college — staying up really late & sleeping in late, feeling exhausted all the time, gorging on junk food, drinking way too much alcohol or even coffee, not exercising, frittering time away on your computer vice of choice, stressing about studies and pulling all-nighters — people laugh and brag about that shit, but it starts making you desperately unhappy, anxious, depressed and unhealthy. I would say 75% of fighting my way out from under major depression and anxiety was fixing all that lifestyle shit. I’m really lucky to have a healthier routine going now with my kids in school, because I’m really susceptible to falling back into it. And when you’re half asleep and miserable all day, you don’t give a fuck about anything.

When my kids go to college, one thing I will really try to impress upon them is how important it is to have a healthy sleep routine and regular exercise. When you get up at 7 and get your heart pumping, suddenly everything feels manageable.

This is so true. I used to eat fast food almost every day in my 20s and I was always skinny. To quote ron swanson "what's cholesterol?".

At 35, I run 3 miles every other day while sticking to a healthy diet just to keep my weight and blood pressure at reasonable levels.

I really want to, but I work 60 hour weeks so I'm too tired to do much other than eat and sleep. I used to get up at 4 and take a run, but now I get up at 4 and go to work.

They make desks that can transition between sitting and standing desks. They can help stop you from sitting stationary 10 hours a day

I'm on my feet 10 hours a day. I build crates, grind metal, carry material and generally make things run smoothly and on time in the plant/warehouse areas. I'm in a constant state of exhaustion, but at least I'm no longer poor.

Working out doesn't have to mean going to a gym. It sounds like your job keeps you pretty physically active.

Tell that to my gut.

Any way you can reduce the hours? Sounds like you're on 10 hr days 6 days a week.

I am. But I make less money if I cut my hours. Overtime is time and a half.

But also don't overdo it. In your 20's your body already doesn't bounce back like it does when you're 15. Take care of it.

This is why I am so proud of my dad. He quit drinking at 38. Then at 45 he lost 50 pounds and started powerlifting. He is 48 now and an absolute monster. Even though his joints are starting to give out he hasn't quit.

Also you develop a form of 'muscle memory' so to say. So let's say you do strength training for a few years in your 20's and make a little bit of gains and then completely drop off until your 45. When you pick it up, you will actually be in a much better place then a completely untrained person identical in every other way. Too lazy to find specific sources, but if you browse through /r/fitness you can find some info (and probably a workout routine to start too).

They've actually discovered that muscle memory is stored at a DNA level which is really cool.

That's super awesome actually!

I swear I gained 10 lbs on my 30th birthday. Was 120 my whole adult life and after I blew out the candles I was 130.

Yes yes yes! I was an absolute gym fanatic from when I was 16 years old up until February of last year, I started working the grave yard shift at work and found it a lot harder to balance work and personal life. This effected my fitness drastically, I gained about 1.5 stone and have just started training again, it is extremely difficult now despite the fact that I was doing it nonstop for around 5 years. The hardest part is getting/wanting to get into a routine again after being absent from it for almost 13 months.

Wish someone told me at 14 to not work too hard... I'm 25 and have arthritis. Hell I'm in decent shape even. Just beat the hell out of my body working.

This. All that drinking, smoking and doing drugs will seriously catch up to you in your 30s and 40.

The body is just as good as naturally destroying itself as it is attempting to repair environmental damage. Adding more fuel to the fire isn't really helping anything. Unless you won the genetic lottery pretty much every damaging substance you do will add up over time. Don't risk your future health and medical bills for some fleeting moments in your youth. Sobriety is better relished because you'll be alive and healthy to enjoy your later years instead of on dialysis, pain pills, a waiting list for 1 or more organ transplants, tracheotomy, colostomy bags, osteoporosis, diabetes, and all other sorts of shit that aren't even in the terminal category. Go ahead...waste those years..they compound like interest down the road. Trust me.

Kids help drive a routine home. I used to be a late morning person. Not any more!

I'm 25 and popped my knee playing with a yorkie. I want to get back into workouts but I'm honestly terrified after that

I had hip and back issues until I started working out and strengthening my body again. Now I have no pains aside from a bit of soreness from sleeping weird. Work out so you help avoid future injuries, not the other way around 😁

Swim, or run on an elliptical. You have options.

I sure am regretting all the dumb things I did to my body. Because of drugs as a teenager, my memory isn’t as good as it could be and my thinking isn’t as fast as I’d like it to be. I do work as a software engineer which is a great way to exercise my mind, but i do wish I abstained from a lot of the things I put in my body at a young age.

Which kind of drugs?

Oxy and morphine when I was 15, ended before 16. Mostly insulfated. From 16 on, experimented with OTCs: dxm, diphenhydramine. “Herbal ecstasies”. Salvia on many occurrences. Weed from 18 on. Mid twenties mushrooms a few times. It’s the early teenage usage before I was 18 that I regret. I wish I had assessed the risk factors to my cognitive growth. But live and learn

A lot harder is also a massive understatement. Man I'm 33 and been through 2 years of hell physically and fuck me if shit isn't hard to do now even though I'm 100% healthy.

“If you form good habits young, you’ll never grow old”

Alternatively, maintaining that lifestyle. I lost a lot of weight in my mid twenties. Kept it off four years. The last six months I put like 25 back on. It sneaks up fast man.

Goes on twice as fast and takes twice as long to work off.

“It gets easier. Every day it gets a little easier. But you gotta do it every day. That’s the hard part. But it does get easier”

I just injured my supraspinatus tendon doing incline presses. I'm realizing the wear and tear :(

I'm recovering from a bit of spinal compression from deadlifts and squats, I feel ya man

Ditto for mental health. Make good habits now, especially if you have access to mental healthcare though your parents insurance or on your college campus. Know what you need so you can plan for it later.

In a way, I'm glad that I put weight on easily (aka I enjoyed overeating), because when I was 20 and slightly overweight I had to correct my habits as a young person and its the norm for me. Some of my friends have abs eating junk food and drinking soda, which may not work once they're erratic eating habits and gym memberships end.

A statement that hit home "[a physiology professor comes to a conclusion of habit/and skills in old people and realizes that age is less important than mentality] It seems we are more likely to rust from disuse, than we are to wear-out from over-use"

Is this easier to achieve when you start living on your own? Im 22, about to graduate college and still living at home but cannot get into a fulfilling rhythm and wondering if its just my environment that needs to change.

I read this while eating a Taco Bell burrito. Thanks for the guilt trip

Oh that's ok, I don't really watch what I eat most the time. When I start noticing my flat stomach looking less flat I cut back of the munchies.

This. My life changed so much when I was able to leave my rotating shifts job and could finally have a decent schedule and sleep hours...

The only jobs I seem to have available to me are all terrible for my health. How can you be healthy when you can't find a healthy job?

Yep! I wish I'd been brought up with a better mindset towards diet and exercise. I'll be instilling that in my future young'uns.

Im 22 and it seems like my body is already shot

This is why I am trying to establish a habit of running everyday while I am still young

As a guy in his mid 20's who hasn't had the healthiest lifestyle, where should i begin or is it too late for my knees?

Start with diet and something light like walking. Pick up an active hobby that you think you'll enjoy. It's never too late to start living a healthier lifestyle and trust me when I say it feels really good.

it's never too late. If your knees can't handle running there's still cycling, swimming, etc.

Except when they say that about their penis

Well, throw out some specifics!

So when I say diet I don't mean you have to count calories or eat nothing but salads. It's about eating the right food for your fitness level and goals. Pick a couple days a week to do some archery. On the weekends go for a hike with some friends and/or your partner. Go for a nice long walk in the evenings. Find a workout routine that matches your fitness goals and do your best to stick to the program. The options for being healthier and happier are endless. Choosing to start tomorrow or next week is the easy part.

It's already hard. It can't get worse than this.

There are a couple kids in my gym running a serious program. These are pretty normal looking dudes deadlifting 400lbs. Within a few years, they will be monsters and I'm just sitting here with my bad discs and weak lifts

i think its a challenge all the time no matter what

Though I don’t follow this as much as I should, make your “I didn’t work out today” be 10 push-ups in the morning. Every little bit makes going further easier. An evening walk is also better than just sitting around.

  • eating right
  • exercising often
  • stretching
  • staying away from drugs
  • keeping your mind active

am I missing anything?

  • get good sleep

Meditate and get adequate sleep

Maaaaaaan...it was like someone threw a switch in my late 20s and everything started to hurt all the time. I really wish I had lost weight when it was easyish to do so I wouldn't be in so much goddamn pain all the time

I don't think it's harder people just get more experienced at making excuses. But I'm only 32 so long way to go yet.

You see a lot of unhealthy people and a lot of old people. You don't see a lot of unhealthy old people.

I started kickboxing, Muay Thai, HIIT training, MMA training in my early 30s, now still doing it and it only feels more motivated along the way.

Never say never!

Started doing this this year. Idk why, I just decided like in February that I was going to hit the gym, drink more water, and watch what I eat and put into my body. It may be the fact that my dad's health is declining and it kind of lit a fire on my ass, but I feel better than I did 5 months ago and I look better too.

As a person who's been athletic most of his life, I couldn't believe how early I started having frequent pain.

Brings back memories of my granny, she literally couldn't stay in one place, always doing stuff. She started off cooking, cleaning, washing when she was 6 and she never stopped much, even when cancer had her chained down she'd just do it anyway.

During her last days she'd say "but i have to do this! I have to finish that! I'm not done yet! I need to get up and do something!" as if it were her younger self. She obviously didn't have the energy but i used to go along with it because i didn't want to make her feel like she couldn't. Knowing what she went through, what her mind wanted to do and her body couldn't at the same time really hit me hard. It's been 2 years and i still lay awake with that on my mind.

Routine is key. The biggest reason people fail in efforts to get healthy is because the motivation fades and there is no discipline to make up for it.

When you start a new regime it's easy to be motivated: This is my new life. Health and fitness start here. Let's do this!

A couple of months in, that feeling will be long gone. The trick is to develop discipline while you are still motivated so that when that motivation fades you have a good habit that is just part of your day/week.

When I was in my twenties, I was over 100 pounds overweight. Losing it SUCKED. It was, easily, one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. I've kept the weight off for a decade now...at my pique, I could run an eight minute mile and lifted weights five days a week.

That was my early thirties. Now in my late thirties, I have to push to run an eleven minute mile and everything hurts when I lift weights...everything. And that's with regular physical fitness and an extremely healthy diet over the past decade. And despite regular exercise, I've still gained ten pounds just from stress and poor sleep patterns.

Incidentally, I'm not asking for advice. I'm just stating facts -- I aged, and my job got more stressful. It just happens, regardless of effort I put in (four to five days at the gym, running when I'm able).

This shit gets harder when you get older man...that's just human physiology. There are obvious exceptions that exist, but my knees and legs just...stopped. They were just like, "We're good man." And unless I replace both legs, that's kinda it. I'll still go to the gym and keep eating healthy, but at a certain point the human body just starts to deteriorate, and you can't stop it. Pointing to a few exceptions does not change the basics of human life.

Now imagine if I were in my late thirties and still had that extra 100 pounds.

Eh, I eat in morderation already, I think i’ll be ok

Eat pizza, drink beer and exercise 45 minutes 3X a week in your 20s? Pretty much in shape. Eat salads, drink water and exercise daily in your 40s? Still can't drop that last 10 lbs.

I love phrases like this because when you're young you're like - yeah yeah, makes sense. But when you actually get to that age, you're like - Oh, "it gets a lot harder when you're older" - understatement of the fucking century...

This. I'm hearing so many people talk about these annoying diets they're going on, now. No carbs, no this or that, only this, et cetera. And also how some of them used to eat horribly just a few years ago, talking 40+ grams of sugar in their first meal.

I used to be awful in high school, staying up late, downing at least a can and a half of coke while going through a good portion of a family sized bag of chips. Earlier than that, s'mores pop tarts for breakfast...

Nothing "happened," I was just fortunate enough to ease myself out of it. I go to the gym now, I'm aware of what I eat, avoid really salty shit, et cetera. And at 23, I'm kind of proud of it. Though sometimes I worry I'm too critical.

Except an erection, that doesn´t get harder...

Not wearing sunscreen. Seriously people wear sunscreen. Getting sunburned just once can triple your risk of melanoma later in life. I work with a lot of older hippies, construction workers, landscapers, and arborists and a lot of them have skin cancer and they all really wish they had worn sunscreen. Listen to Baz Luhrmann and wear sunscreen. If you're concerned about certain chemicals in sunscreen there's always alternatives. Also look into Korean sunscreens. They have amazing sunscreens that go on smooth just like lotion and don't leave you sticky or contain some of the harsh chemicals in American sunscreens. Make it a part of your daily routine and you'll appreciate it later in life.

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Also get much less Vitamin D

Luckily for fair skinned people it takes less than 10 minutes to get an ample amount of vitamin D. It's also present in foods like fish, eggs, cheese, liver, and fortified products like milks.

What's fair skinned exactly?

Like the white people who hold up their arms next to another white person and they're several shades of white lighter.

So like Voldemort to a regular person, or me to Voldemort?

I would say Voldy's pretty fair skinned.

lucky bastard, probably spent all that extra time getting wicked smaht at magic without having to worry about how much d he needed

Oh thanks. Yeah I know a few fair skinned people. One of my friends is like that and he also has like no body hair. He's 1 weird creature.

Essentially all white people. We lost our melanin when we migrated into Europe and Asia due to the need to absorbed more vitamin D. Melanin helps protect us from UVB radiation but lengthens the time of absorption. Humans with more melanin should still wear sunscreen however it will take them longer to get vitamin D. Another note is while tanning increases melonin it does next to nothing in protecting you from the sun. Tanning significantly increases your risk of skin cancer. Don't do it.

So tiny amounts that it doesent matter. And only if those animals where in contact with the sun themselves

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Or take vitamin D tablets if you're not completely insane.

Milk is already fortified with vitamin D

Edit: lol ok downvote facts

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Complete BS.

Vitamin D intoxication is extremely rare but can be caused by inadvertent or intentional ingestion of excessively high doses. Doses of more than 50,000 IU per day raise levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D to more than 150 ng per milliliter (374 nmol per liter) and are associated with hypercalcemia and hyperphosphatemia. Doses of 10,000 IU of vitamin D3 per day for up to 5 months, however, do not cause toxicity.

Source: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMra070553

Edit: And this is one of the pieces cited in the article above; the abstract explains why the RDA is not accurate: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096007600400086X?via%3Dihub

I was vitamin D deficient, took 50,000 unit tablets once a week for 24 weeks before I was back into normal range. Have been taking 2000 units a day for a while now, but haven’t gotten retested in a while

Yeah, that ain't the same deal unfortunatly. Going outside for an hour a day without being covered up from top to bottom should do the job just fine. Have a walk with some music or something

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Haaaa goodie. Got me.

It highly depends on the UV level and your melanin content. For non black skinned people you only need about 10 to 20 minutes for absorption but I've not found good information on timings for black skinned individuals. However fair skinned people will get sun damage after only a few minutes and people with more Hispanic skin types about 15 minutes. This is of course I guideline. Any amount of sun exposure will have the possibility to damage your skin. While yes you need vitamin D you should be consulting a doctor on your vitamins levels and making dietary changes to meet you needs either through supplements or through eating more vitamin D rich foods. The sun is damaging and we have better alternatives for meeting your vitamins means that don't involve getting skin cancer later in life.

Have learned the hard way. Moved to a northern latitude 15 years ago (where we have no UV rays for half the year, and the other half is mosly gray skies) and my skin has become very pale and sensitive to sunlight. After enduring many sunburns when going overseas to visit my parents or to travel -- sometimes even after minimal exposure, because I thought 15 minutes wouldn't hurt -- I've now said "enough" and have invested heavily in spf30+ lotions.

I've also expanded my hot-weather wardrobe to include a lot of light clothing that covers my torso, arms and legs. Western culture equates hot sun with skimpy clothing, but people who live in these climates year round actually cover up, which is super smart. The only Western country I've seen that gets this is Australia, because they've had proper educational campaigns about it and take sun protection seriously.

You're either really muscular or really round

Skin cancer free tho

Have fun paying for chemo and radiation. Chemo is $10k to $200k

God Bless America 🇺🇸

Doctor prescribe me some vitamin D pills

If you drink milk it doesn't matter

Amen. I don't like the sun and the sun doesn't like me. Its a respected and mutual understanding, and I'm okay with it.

Fellow Pacific Northwest resident?

The ball of fire is out today!

Lucky you. I see rain, rain, and more rain. UV index 0.

Seattle is expecting a week of sunshine(:

/r/suicidebywords

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It being cloudy isn’t enough to avoid sunscreen. Clouds block visible light, not UV light, which is more damaging. Also, what happens if the clouds clear for half an hour or so?

That's not what he meant at all.

Just make sure to eat your sardines.

But what kind of life is that?

either a neckbeard or lives in London.

you're laughing but... well, we had a lan party in my basement about 15 years ago. we didn't leave the house for 3 days straight, it was pretty awesome. of course you need some fresh air after a while if there are 10+ dudes in your basement. so we opened a window. my cousin got a nasty sunburn because the sun shined through the open window.

Hahaha holy shit yes

What if you’re walking on the sun?

Excuse me while I go back into my cave.

I use this practice haha.

An oft overlooked benefit of living in Britain.

What's a sun? I don't have one.

This. My spare tire may not be healthy in a cardiovascular sense, but it keeps my shirt on outdoors and keeps me away from pools and beaches, so it's great for my skin.

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Super pale Irish gal, favorite Korean suncream

Damn, that shit is expensive.

Also, people should know the active ingredient in this is octinoxate, which is one of the ingredients in sunscreens responsible for coral bleaching. Octinoxate is also readily absorbed into the skin, so much so that it also absorbs stowaway chemicals with it. Honestly, this is a fairly common ingredient in sunscreen and you could surely find another cheap sunscreen that does the same thing. Of course if you want a sunscreen that is safer for you and the environment, you should probably look for one that uses titanium dioxide instead, as that won't damage coral or absorb into your skin.

Which suncream? And personally this both just work with my eczema really well so, I usually stick to what I know. In Ireland piz buin usually goes on sale in boots all the time and I don’t mind paying €10-€15 for a big bottle of suncream.

I'm sure it may work well for you, but it isn't free of harmful chemicals like the op was saying is true of these Korean brands.

Any brand that only uses zinc and titanium dioxide would be safe though, and some choose to make their own out of things like coconut oil, almond oil and zinc oxide.

I'm not telling you not to use what you like, I'm just warning people that this isn't free of dangerous chemicals like they seem to think these Korean brands may be.

thank you! my other half is ginger and hates wearing sunscreen but gets red within 10-15 mins. sigh.

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Gonna need a couple warehouses full for that.

😂😂 I'll put it with his umbrella collection. He's a little vampire.

Available on Amazon prime for $11!

My Mom used to call it "sunscream" too. Aw. I miss my Mom.

Do you use that for your body too? Seems to be sunscreen for the face.

Just for my face as I don’t mind if my body feels ‘greasy’ as I mostly work indoors anyways, but this is my favorite body suncream I’ve really sensitive skin on my face and I find if I use the same suncream on my face and body I break out.

Piz Buin is my favorite for smell alone, I can get away with factor 30 but they do up to 50.

Oh, I feel you about the sensitive skin! Back in school a friend recommended a cleanser to me that had worked wonders for her acne. It kinda made my skin flake off lol. Ever since then, I've been very careful with what I put on my face.

I've never really used 50 on my body (just my face) so I think I should be fine with 30 on my body. Thanks for the recommendation!

A very late thank you from a super pale and freckly Englishman

Biore UV Watery Gel and Biore UV Watery Essence are both holy grails for me. I used to hate applying sunscreen because of how thick they were and how hard they were to apply but these two made me look forward to putting them on.

It's funny, the OP said the Korean sunscreens don't contain the "harsh chemicals in American sunscreens" but they seemingly all do. This one you've recommended includes octinoxate as it's primary ingredient. Octinoxate is indeed a toxic chemical that is rapidly absorbed into the body and that is also responsible for the bleaching of coral reefs. I'm not sure what's supposed to be better about these Korean sunscreens, but the actual ingredients are the same as their low-cost Western counterparts.

If you want a safer sunscreen look for one that contains zinc or titanium dioxide as the primary ingredient, and not oxybenzone or octinoxate.

I don't know safer; but the Korean sunscreens can be worn daily and don't leave that greasy shine I've found in even high range Western brands. There's this culture of wearing sunscreens only when you go to the beach so it doesn't matter - and as a result, you end up looking like you slathered yourself in butter. Can't show up to the office like that, can't go to a picnic like that, etc.

And come on, sunscreen is a very minor cause, specially if we're talking daily use and not full body before going into the sea.

Exactly. I don't mind using the traditional american sunscreen on my body, but I can't have my face look greasy at my job. I bike to and from work, and often take walks on my lunch break - that's almost 3 hours of sun exposure on my face every single day.

Yeah and if you use makeup remover any residue is gonna end up on cotton pads on a landfill, so it's not the same as people applying it all over right before going diving right at the coral reef.

Minor cause of what?

Anyway, I'm not saying you can't use what you'd like, but it's not any safer just because it's from South Korea, which is what the OP had originally stated. If you want safer there are better options, as I mentioned above, but I can't speak to how they feel or look on your skin.

Yeah I don't agree with the safety thing, but the wearability I can preach for. I've tried literally dozens of sunscreens and they're no match.

The problem is those 2 are physical sunscreens and tend to leave a white cast which many if us can't show up to work with.

Well then, endocrine disrupting chemicals it is.

Try titanium dioxide or zinc oxide. Also many sunscreens have endocrine disrupts present in amounts to small to cause any significant side effects and some are encapsulated so the molecules are too large to be absorbed transdermally.

Uh, I already recommended those two above as a safer option.

Octinoxate is readily absorbed into the skin, so easily in fact that it also absorbs what are known as stowaway chemicals, those that otherwise do not easily absorb into the body.

Oh oops. But many Korean/Asian sunscreens are encapsulated now making them too large to be absorbed transdermally. And it's about the amount that's absorbed as well I don't believe there are any papers showing significant endocrine disruption from daily sunscreen use. I could be wrong though.

Thank you for this! I was in Japan earlier this and last month and meant to pick some up (saw some ads for it on TV) to try out but never got around to it. I'm happy to see it's easily available on Amazon.

Came here to say the same. Very easy to purchase off Amazon.

Take a look at r/asianbeauty. Lots of suggestions there!

biore aqua rich watery essence. I know that from years of /r/skincareaddiction . It is really light and doesn't make your skin look white. It is kind of expensive though, and you can get it on amazon.

You can get some good moisturisers that have 20 spf which aren't like a regular suncream. They're not going to hold up to a day on the beach, but are good for daily wear. Source: also ginger guy

Biore UV aqua rich is the gold standard btw

This isn't Korean but as a ginger myself, I can vouch that it is phenomenal and 100% worth the expense. I only use it on my face though.

Fuck me that's a heavy price to pay for such a small amount of product.

However, you are the only one to have posted a sunscreen product that doesn't contain toxic chemicals that are harmful to the wearer and environment.

I know Avene also makes a slightly cheaper mineral lotion that uses the same, safe ingredients of titanium dioxide and zinc, so maybe try checking that out sometime too.

If it's any consolation, I used it every day for more than 1 (Canadian) summer. You don't need much for excellent coverage. Never mind no sunburn, I don't even FRECKLE with this stuff on.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AsianBeauty/comments/5tkwh0/discussionguide_ab_sunscreens_comparison/?st=j1xtuaxa&sh=127ea859 or you can go down the deep end and become an obsessed Asian sunscreen freak~

Check out r/skincareaddiction !

It's Japanese, but look at Biore's Aqua Rich line. I use them regularly and it glides smoothly. No whitecast either.

Laneige sunscreens are great, thin and smooth with little to no scent. Great for under makeup too.

Biore is a great Japanese brand as well!! Japan has also done a good job with sunscreen :) I buy a super watery lotion one in bulk off amazon and mix it with my moisturizer. It's awesome and has super high SPF

neutrogena ultra sheer is really good! They have liquid and one that is similar to deodorant, but made of sunscreen. That is the only sunscreen I'll use! I feel like it is a little easier to find, at least in the U.S.

I'm 31 and have been wearing it daily since I was 17. I look like I'm in my earlyish twenties. It pays off.

Good on you. For those who hate the idea of putting on a thick sunscreen daily, at the very least get yourself moisturizer with SPF. Moisturizing your face every day can go a long way for preventing undue aging, and having SPF for your daily commute/walkabout will make difference. Damage still happens even if you don't get burnt.

Also, if you have tattoos, you need to be protecting those every single time they're not covered by clothing.

Melanoma is hard to treat and it has a particular affinity to the brain when it spreads, and melanoma loves to spread. Cancer in the brain sucks. Radiation sucks. Chemo sucks. It all sucks and it sucks more when the goal of treatment is control rather than cure. So wear sunscreen.

My 16 year old brother won't wear sunscreen because it's "gay." The dude is outside playing basketball with no shirt on flaking because he doesn't want to be "gay." Like, if you're so worried about it just put it on before you leave the house? I just don't understand and hope he learns before it hurts him somehow.

Can you imagine having that level of delusion? That you're tougher than the fucking sun?

My dad was that guy when he was younger.

He just had skin cancer removed for the second time. They had to dig out a chunk of his nose about the size of a raisin. He's got a nice big scar from the top of his nose down to his mouth to show off now.

Kids still use the word gay like that? Really?

"Miss me with that gay shit" gets thrown around a lot.

I'm pretty sure that's an ironic joke making fun of people like his brother.

like with many ironic jokes at the expense of silly people, it will go over the heads of some silly people and they will adopt it in a literal sense.

If he thinks putting on sunscreen is going to make him wanna suck cock, I don't think it's the suncreen

I'd rather be gay than have cancer.

Yes! https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=5s&v=sTJ7AzBIJoI

This was written by columnist Mary Schmich and just recorded by Baz. I like to give her credit when it comes up!

Doubly important: Even if you cover up, if the UV rating is super-high (like over 15), you need to wear sunblock on any exposed skin anyway. Even if you're wearing a hat.

UV radiation shines off shit. It will STILL burn you.

over 15

SPF 100 all the way

As a 24 yo PE teacher, I try to live by sunscreen every. single. day.

Your skin also looks terrible later in life after years of sun damage

Any Korean brands to recommend? The sticky feeling is so awful.

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Biore UV Aqua Rich Watery Gel SPF50+

That's a Japanese brand FYI

That was actually written by columnist Mary Schmich as a hypothetical commencement speech. Baz recorded it once, however, and that tends to be what makes the rounds.

I'm aware but the "song" by Baz Luhrmann is more popular.

I would like to add a note to my fellow black people in their 20's: Yes, you still have to wear sunscreen. More melanin =/= more sun protection

r/skincareaddiction we put here

Japanese sunscreens > Korean sunscreens. Imo anyway :3

Tbh I'd recommend them since they have the pa+ rating system to measure UVA protection. In most countries there's no required, regulated measure of UVA protection. Spf is only a measure of UVB protection and a lot of "broad spectrum" sunscreens are the equivalent of spf15. Or do some research and look for sunscreens with tinosorb in them (it's often listed by its more chemical-ey sounding name, however).

I am that friend that always wears sunscreen, every single day. On vacation I’m in a hat and cover ups under an umbrella. My friends make fun of me for being pale but I’d rather be pale than already have fine lines like they do.

When I first told my friends I wear sunscreen everyday they looked at me confused, like they couldn't fathom why I would do that. This despite the fact we're in our mid-twenties and I look 2-3 years younger than them. I think the difference will be much more distinct as we get older.

I am in my mid-late twenties and people typically think I am under 21, I still get ID’d constantly and it just makes me feel like I’m doing something right! They won’t be laughing when they look all leathery lol

I've heard people say I'll get sun now and botox/cosmetic procedures later but I feel like that creates a very artificial look. I really don't think anything compares to natural healthy skin.

I'm that friend top but I still have the most lines... Thanks nature.

Hopefully it will be effective in avoiding skin cancer long term.

Even the bubble boy had a deck of cards..

I’ll usually have a book or music, just keeping away from those UV rays

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I'd say it would help. Dark skin still gets sun-damaged even if it doesn't get "burnt" and is less susceptible to melanoma.

I have seen dark-skinned friends get flaky skin from over-exposure to sun. Also some of them say that sun exposure can lead to a blotchy or an uneven look to their skin tone, and make their skin texture leathery. Sunscreen protects against that.

Sun levels are different too. Your skin might seem completely fine in one place, but if you suddenly expose it at high altitude, or in an equatorial climate, or in the Australian outback, it might respond differently.

Do Indians and Koreans have similar skin tones?

Can't tell if you're asking seriously, but if you are, absolutely not. Koreans have fair skin and Indians have shades running light to dark brown, depending on region.

I'm awful at reapplying sunscreen, so at this point if I'm going to be out I always just wear Columbia clothes that have whatever their spf 50 equivalent shit is. Long sleeve everything. When I was in the desert for a couple weeks I also wore a banana with the same stuff under my hat and draped over my ears and neck.

Fuck the sun

Somehow I don't think I'll ever have this problem (UK)

UV rays can penetrate clouds.

Right. We rarely ever get the Sun.

but realistically, about a month or maybe two months worth of days are burning hot, like you can actively feel it burn. be safe. skin cancer aint worth it.

I’m more confused at how they found enough people who had never been sun burnt for that study

Latino here and I'm finding it funny that ppl are interested in Korean lotions from opposite sides of the spectrum. I'm interested because most lotions are white and make me look like a clown or like I'm wearing whiteface.

I love how this one is sandwiched in between answers like "don't knock up your girlfriend" and "avoid heroin".

(I did wear sunscreen i am just super pale) at 15 i had had at least 8 sunburns over the years already. at that point, you kinda get used to them.

Same here. You ever get a sunburn while in the shade?

i think i have.

one time, my sister (who's even paler) afaik somehow managed to get a 2nd degree burn sunburn

That happened to me as well. Blisters all over my face.

I got sunburned in Alaska.

Haven't you seen a globe? Alaska's closer to the sun!

^(but really, snow reflects burny rays more than you'd think)

It was summer so there was no snow.

There goes my dreams of going to Alaska :(

I've gotten sunburnt while waiting for the bus. Literally 10-15 minutes tops.

One time, I got a 2nd degree sunburn from being outside 30 minutes.

I still try an wear sunscreen, but sometimes it feel like an inevitability...

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Man, I don't know.

All I know is I was at an outside concert during lunch, stayed 30 minutes, and woke up to some sized blisters all over my arms and a nice purple tinge. I got new freckles from it too. This is like Michigan not even Florida or Bahamas or something, ftr.

I'm Lobster-American, like my dad. He got conned into tanning and was lobster red after 15 minutes, maybe less.

I’m shocked when I see comments like these. At 15 I’m pretty sure I was getting 8 sunburns per year.

I remember getting sunburnt heaps at school because the teachers kept hokding assemblies and ceremonies outside in the blistering heat and of course if I didn't know we were going, I didn't have any sunscreen on me. How many teenagers carry sunscreen on their person anyway?

Oh yeah I'm probably underestimating but the parent post makes it seem like such a big deal getting 1 so I went on the safe side

Long sleeves, hats and bandanas are the way to go if you're going to be exposed for longer than 15 continuous minutes. Then you don't have to worry about re-applying sunscreen or missing a spot.

I bought a long-sleeve surfing top and swim leggings and it makes beach activities so much easier.

Both the long-sleeve part and the words "swim leggings" just make my heart (and my skin) soar

The long term benefits of sunscreen have been proven by scientists.

My dad has had skin cancer three times, all before the age of 40. I always put sun cream on but my brother actively resists using it.

Ironically, getting a tattoo helped with this.

I made sure not to let my investment burn in the sun.

I live in arizona and really need to start doing this but I really really hate the feel of sunscreen on my face.

American sunscreens leave a heavy, greasy feeling behind. I just ordered Biore UV watery essence (Japanese brand) on Amazon and it is so light and dries nicely. Matte finish.

Japanese & Korean cosmetics are on a whole other level. UVA and UVB protection. You don't want your face to look like a leather bag by the time you're 40.

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Thank you I'll check it out I really don't want any kind of cancer later in life.

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Ya I wish those robes they wear in the middle east were more popular because I hear they are the best in super hot places. Not a robe it's like a dress Idk what it's called lol.

I've been led to believe that most of our sun exposure comes in childhood, and thus most of the damage the sun can do has already been done. Anybody out there have any idea if this is true?

I don’t think that’s true at all. I’ve read that you only accumulate 25% of your lifetime of sun damage by the time you’re 18.

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It does disprove what the person said about accumulating most of your sub damage in childhood though.

Getting sunburned just once can triple your risk of melanoma later in life

Jesus. I'm a ginger and have gotten so many sunburns in my life... There's probably no way I won't get melanoma at this point.

Exactly, a great tan isn't worth a bad sunburn and the chance of melanoma. Plus, I found when wearing sunscreen I still get tan.

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It's when you're on the water or in snow that you really have to be careful. Other times you can get away with a weaker spf (in my experience). I'm going kayaking today in Phuket and you better believe I'm going to fucking douse myself in sunscreen multiple times. 50 spf body spray, and 100spf for the face and neck, probably knees and shins too since they'll be face up in the sun for hours.

Koreans are the best when it comes to makeup and related skin care.

Edit grammar

I always found Neutrogena sunscreen pretty nice. I'm in Thailand right now and my wife and I made sure to get the 100SPF stuff. So far we're still white as ghosts, though I've had my share of bad sunburns growing up - at least a dozen or so notable ones where I peeled, (but never blistered, so at least I have that.)

Neutrogena Sheer 55 SPF is my go to for whole body summer sunscreen. It feels so nice.

I recommend Bioré UV aqua rich watery essence 50 SPF

22 just started doing this! I use an all-natural sunscreen with reef-safe zinc oxide :-)

Good! It's important to protect our skin but also to protect the environment.

If you're white as fuck, try Neutrogena 85+ SPF

Anything korean for skin care is probably a good idea now that I think about it. From cosmetics to skincare.

If you spend lots of time outdoors in the sun, it is definitely worth buying a few long sleeve outdoor shirts and a good hat. Much more convenient than sunscreen IMO.

What if I got sunburnt frequently as a kid? I definitely cover up more now, but I was an ignorant child without a clue then. Am I fucked?

My family let me get sunburned a lot when I was a kid and before I knew better.

I don't do sun anymore. Much better than sunscreen. Winter is best.

I learned that the hard way one time when I got sunburnt really bad. It doesn't help that I burn very easily and quickly too, so I when I'm outdoors for an extended period of time, I always make sure I apply sunscreen beforehand.

Are any of those Korean sunscreens reef safe, if you happen to know?

There should be a song about this.

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can you afford skin cancer treatment after Theresa slaughters the NHS?

Even a morning moisturizer or foundation with spf for your face is a great idea!

Can you recommend a Korean sunscreen?

Is moisturizer okay?

This is true, I'm in my mid 30s and recently graduated with a degree, but have had more than one person assume I was talking about graduating high school when I mentioned it. I graduated highschool in 2000.

My secret, wearing sunscreen and embracing my pale Canadian ass.

A family member always seems to be getting suburns even though she hasn't been outside. My mom and I naturally have a sort of "olive" skin tone while the family member in question has fair skin. She even applies sunscreen every 2 hours while at say, a beach, and she still ends up getting sunburnt.

Biore UV Aqua Rich Watery Essence fam!!!! Smells like oranges and feels like a lush gel moisturiser

I live in the Middle East. Just cover yourself up in something loose and light and you won't even need the sunscreen, or at least much of it.

Also don't believe your makeup if it tells you it has SPF in it - you have to use a crap ton to get any real benefit. It's better just to layer actual sunscreen before or after your makeup.

21 and this is where I fucked up already

From age 4-16 I had 3 really bad burns from trips to North Carolina, Jamaica, and a cruise.

Some minor ones that healed in like 2-4 days too.

But now I know to watch for odd bumps or growths. I’ve heard skin cancer is really treatable as long as it’s caught early. Had a professor have it and they just scooped it out.

There's no certainty that the chemicals in sunscreen will have ill effects but there is absolute medical certainty unprotected sun exposure will.

I have to put on two coats of SPF 150. I'm too white..

Also overusing tanning beds and getting too much regular sun too. Friend's sister regularly went to the beach and on boats. She also hit up the tanning bed regularly. She is only 26 right now and already has very visible skin damage from all the years of regular and fake sun.

I got a really bad sunburn in my 20s. Like my whole back blistered up. Am I basically guaranteed to get skin cancer? Because I don’t want to die.

I am allergic to something in sunscreen and I can't figure out what. Guess this is one thing I'll have to keep doing wrong :(

Go to a doctor or allergist and try to figure it out. There's usually alternatives.

For the majority of my friends in High school it was trying Heroin after experimenting with pills. Since then 6 have died and the rest are either struggling with their addiction or have completely ruined their lives.

Edit: This is Central/Eastern Kentucky

Damn man, I feel sorry for that.

It's crazy too, I remember when people started experimenting with it after they got bored with weed. Only 1 of my addict friend got their shit together after it was all said and done.

I had a raging coke habit. Moving 20 miles from all my friends and my dealer fixed that, and I was kind of forced into that by other unrelated things.

I almost OD'd and had a heart attack on it... My heart rate was 190 sitting still. We think we're invincible when we're young but we're really not. I flushed about $1000 of coke down the toilet that night 4 years ago and never touched it again. Fuck cocaine.

I spent 4 days in the hospital after I called an ambulance for myself, I'd taken a gram of molly when I still had cocaine in my system and ended up having a heart attack. It's definitely a wake up call.

Holy shit man. Had you just developed a massive tolerance at that point, hence the insane dose?

Not even, that's one of the reasons it wrecked me so bad.

Isn't Molly similar to coke in it's effects? You basically did like super coke lol.

Also how you doing now?

They’re both stimulants but ime molly is way more euphoric (and cokes pretty damn euphoric).

Some scientific differences: They both increase the levels of dopamine, serotonin, and norepinephrine circulating your body but cokes high is primarily dopaminergic (like most amphetamines, dissociatives like pcp, and research stims) whereas molly is a serotonergic high (like prescription antidepressants, dissociatives like DXM, and again research stimulants) which is atypical for amphetamines/stimulants but MDMA has a very complex pharmacology that is mildly psychedelic too when your body begins converting it to MDA. Also, the duration of a coke high is very short (1 hour ish) but MDMA is much longer (4-8 hrs and highly dose dependent). Cocaine is much easier to get addicted to for two reasons: one because dopamine gets produced much more quickly meaning exhausting this neurotransmitter takes a lot of fucking coke making it easier to abuse and two: because our brains reward system is dopamine based (whereas serotonin plays a role in mood stabilisation). Molly exhausts serotonin very easily, so much that recommended gap between molly highs (called rolls) is three months. If you try and roll frequently your body simply runs out of serotonin which keeps you from getting nearly as high so it’s somewhat self-regulating as you continue to use but it can be very addicting after your first 2-3 uses when effects are maximal. Iirc single use of MDMA is more neurotoxic than coke or meth, but people tend to use the latter much more frequently which makes up for this difference. If 100% is the baseline human dopamine concentration, molly raises this to ~225%, sex 350%, coke 400%, and meth 1200%. I don’t have a similar stat line for serotonin but I want to say molly is significantly higher than meth which is significantly higher than coke but I’m not positive. Coke and meth are more likely to induce stimulant psychosis symptoms like paranoia, hallucinations, and delusions while under the influence (schizophrenia is linked to excess dopamine) and anhedonia (loss of pleasure) when sober after extensive use due to dopamine downregulation. Excess serotonin while rolling can also cause hallucinations, overheating, and seizures in extreme cases. The days/weeks following MDMA use cause comedowns typified by increased depression and anxiety (remember how it acts similarly to prescription antidepressants by increasing serotonin? The lower serotonin levels following a roll mimic an underregulated serotonin system typical of people with major depressive disorder/general anxiety disorder) in addition to reduced cognition because of its neurotoxicity

Most people I know prefer molly to coke, I really enjoy serotonin highs so I’m kinda biased but yeah. I used to abuse MDMA in very frequent, heavy doses (once took 1.4g in 24 hours, the LD50 which quantifies the lethal dose for 50% of people is 1.0g) but was lucky enough to walk away with minimal immediate damage, no lasting damage, and have been sober from it over a year now. I recently tried coke and have done it on a few occasions but usually in combination with other substances like alcohol, tobacco, kratom, amphetamines, and LSD, muddying the effects. I really enjoy stimulants, with LSD and Adderall/Vyvanse being my favourites due to their incredible duration (~12 hrs), and I love working out, doing math, programming, and socialising on them

If you find yourself interested in trying either one or anything else, do your research, know what to expect, and use them more responsibly than I have. Psychonautwiki and Erowid are great resources

My mother was a pharmacist and worked for what would be the FBI in my home country. She would talk about drugs just about this way, maybe she had some experience as well, I'll never know. She then went to get Masters degree and provided and cared for us until her passing. My point is, you are a walking encyclopedia, and I hope you continue sharing and increasing your knowledge about drugs (licit and illicit) because you are damn good about it and people need to learn. Also, I hope you find the path to kick the habit once a for all.

Thanks for your reply, that means a lot

I know that I’m an addict and accept the consequences of my choices. I should point out that experiences with psychedelics and dissociatives (I’ve tried over a dozen, all more than once) have really pushed me into deeper philosophical, mathematical, and personal waters than I’d ever have been able to reach sober and help me on my journey to understand myself, my studies, and the universe (it sounds pretentious but I’m pretty down to earth and just being honest here). That said, the toll of drug use on my body and psyche is very concerning. I hope that once I graduate college it will level off. I’ve experienced my mind and the world in so many altered states of consciousness—learning and experiencing on drugs that shaped cultures and nations —that the general public, friends, and family couldn’t imagine. The knowledge and experience gained from such a comprehensive human experience comes at a price and I hope that my self control will help me integrate back into a more sober lifestyle in the future

Have you ever tried jogging? The runners high is a real thing, its just not easy to get there. Good luck.

I did varsity wrestling/soccer/football in high school and still do intramurals and lift weights heavily to stay in shape/improve my figure. I have a ridiculous metabolism and running destroys what little mass I have, but I can still manage around a 6 minute mile. I get great runners highs though

love how thought out this reply is

When you say you like LSD as a stimulant, do you mean microdosing?

Not necessarily. Microdosing is technically taking 5-15ug, which is barely subthreshold so you hardly notice it. Threshold is 20ug. Personally doses 25-50ug are fantastic for being productive or creative, as there are negligible visuals, great music enhancement, and imaginative stimulation that keeps me up 12 hours. A tab (100ug) is even more stimulating but confusing the first 2-3 hours, while the last 6 are incredibly insightful and creative. As you continue increasing dose, those first few confusing hours get more confusing and last longer, but the back end of the 12 hour trip is even more sobering and insightful. My most insightful discoveries in math and philosophy have often been in doses between 300-500ug which is extremely stimulating but incredibly intense/confusing the first few hours but breathtakingly sobering in hours 6-12

Psychedelics and dissociatives can also be stimulants/downers and LSD happens to be an extremely stimulating one, I’ve always thought it was like a psychedelic Adderall.

This is exactly how I use LSD and other psychedelics. My husband and I will take a 10 strip and have an amazing evening together, and I am fairly certain this has kept our relationship strong and fresh. We discover new things about each other every single time we take LSD together. I love taking 15-25ug and having so much energy and introspection throughout the day. We use molly in much the same way- nothing beats 4-8 hours with your lover just connecting. We do not use things like meth, coke or heroin because we find that is actually muddies our self discovery...the drug kind of TAKES OVER, so to speak. I actually wouldn't classify us as 'addicts' however, because we can go weeks/months without touching a thing, but then its like we miss that connection, so we do it again! Different strokes for different folks, I think.

I agree, you’re not addicts (per DSM-V)

There’s a beauty to restricting oneself to strictly psychedelic self-discovery, something I’ve done before. Had the pleasure of trying LSD around 30 times, shrooms around 6, mescaline twice, DMT around ten times, ayahuasca twice, 2CB twice, psilocin twice, salvia about eighty times, ketamine twice, DXM around 100 times, nitrous on occasion, and a few others. It’s quite a noble but rewarding pursuit. For better or worse my schoolwork and hedonistic side keep stimulants on the in-use table also. Someday I’ll probably go back to strictly psychedelic pursuits, maybe soon. I wish you and your husband the best

Coke always pumped me up, Molly made me melty. Everything feels amazing and dreamy. Coke tends to be done in frequent lines, Molly you drop (swallow), and you're good for a few hours.

Yeah, they're both pretty potent stimulants. Molly is pretty much meth.

Thanks for asking, I've stayed far away from any stimulants besides caffeine since then. My heart is a trooper, after the echochamber and days of ekg they told me it was about as good as one could hope for after such an event. I'm very thankful for that and intend to take better care of myself to promote my cardiovascular health. Heart disease runs in my mother's side of the family as well so I'm gonna try my best.

Edit: apparently molly is nothing like meth. Never done meth, but I'd always heard it was similar because of the methamphetamine in mdma. My mistake.

Coke pretty much reverses the peak of Molly, so doing the 2 together is counterproductive.

Yes, they are both stimulants, but work on different pathways. But molly is not even close to meth, if you think, you have no experience with molly or you underestimate meth lol

Never done meth, I had been told it was similar and didn't realize it was so vastly different. Guess I should've verified the information before I made that claim.

Molly is pretty much meth

LOL not even close, dude

Molly, aka MDMA, aka methylenedioxymethamphetamine

Emphasis on the methamphetamine part

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Different chemical and effects absolutely, but im saying that the guy has a point with his comment. Obviously its not like molly is half meth, but they’re both crazy uppers in the same chemical family.

It's such a wildly different experience than meth, though. I have fallen asleep on really pure MDA before.

MDA is closer to Meth but under your logic Adderall or Dex is like Meth. Molly is more eurphoria while Meth is pure speed.

MDMA/MDA is also psychedelic in many ways, so the comparison to meth just doesn't make any sense at all. BUT, it's possible their "molly" was actually cut with real meth, since that seems to be common.

No molly is not pretty much meth..

They share a similar name because chemically they are similar. However, even slight chemical differences make them entirely different drugs.

Actually pure molly is MDMA, but a lot of times they're cut with heroin, meth or cocaine.

One time when I was like 16 I took too much klonopin and drank like a third of a bottle of wine, blacked out. For some reason my mom just thought I was high. Last thing I remembered was drinking the wine. Man that was dumb, I was just bored trying to have some fun

Took a .7 hit of Molly one night, coke the next, and acid the day after that one weekend in college. Never again

I took .1 molly and a tab last year, my junior year of college. You definitely had some fun lol. Unless the acid trip was bad.

You took a whole gram at once? Were you sure it was MDA/MDMA?

Drugs are almost always adulterated. They may have snorted a "gram", but minus whatever the dealer weighs it in at and however much creatine (or glucose, or some other (potentially nasty) adulterant).

Cocaine is always adulterated. If you have a decent MDMA connect, it's really not too hard to find very pure stuff. They're two totally different scenes.

But why?

Dumb, young, and depressed with other mental health issues. Wanting to get as fucked up as possible. I didn't take them back to back, but I had enough in my system to do the trick apparently.

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That along with a gram of K and constant drinking, if you're pushing the boat out. Idk how people don't die more often either.

You took the words out my mouth. On a night out me and my mates would do a gram each. How we are all okay is beyond me

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I'm already starting to get burnt out from it and I'm only getting started with it ahaha. My girlfriend doesn't like MD anymore cause she overdid it

I always see this whenever MDMA comes up in a thread. it wasnt unusual for me and my friends to take a gram of molly and half of K, then a few vals or xanex for the come down with joints and balloons. Even some acid in there at times. I knew other groups of friends who were much worse as well. We were messy as fuck but it wasnt unusual.

Once your brain is out of it's stores in serotonin, I don't think MDMA does much.

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It's not pills they take. People just buy a gram of clear crystal mdma and make it into 4 or 5 bombs.

I am from the UK. When at uni people used to regularly buy half a gram for a night. It wasn’t uncommon for people to buy a full gram if they were pushing the boat out.

Hard to tell the purity and obviously people used to share out stuff, but still...

What does the phrase 'pushing the boat out' mean? I'm assuming it's UK slang, I've seen it used a couple times in this thread in relation to getting really fucked up.

It kind of means to do something in an extravagant/excessive way

Ah okay, thanks mate

I used to roll/take Adderall to study a lot in college, and you'd be surprised how much amphetamine tolerance can build up.

10mg Amphetamines/100mg MDMA used to get me high as balls, I was quickly over to doing over 120+mg Amphetamine/1.5g MDMA over 24 hour periods.

Even now, in the rare occasions that I take Adderall to help with work, 10-20 mg doesn't really kick for me.

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Tolerance can be through depletion, but that's not 100% of it. Even after quitting for 2 years to fight addiction, when I started using again (this time according to dosage), the 'high' was gone.

Adderall is actually surprisingly scary because it changes the way your brain functions (ex. your brain starts using different pathways), and even starts expressing different genes long after you stop using.

Neurotransmitter depletion is more of a factor in MDMA, but amphetamine tolerance lasts way after your brain replenishes dopamine/serotonin.

Highly unlikely unless you have prior health issues.

Gosh homie, thank God you are here right now! Goes to show anything can be deadly at the right dose. Also, how did it feel like?

Edit did you die and were revived? Or got help as soon as heart failure entered your mind? Hope I'm not to late if so thanks for sharing.

Why does anyone do drugs? To feel different then their normal boring life

Nobody consumes that much without a death wish

The sad part: A lot of people do have a death wish

I'd taken a gram of molly when I still had cocaine in my system

Like at once?

A gram is way too much... why did you take that amount?

Jesus. I’ve taken .1 of mdma and was soaring.

400mg of mdma (idk wtf “molly” is”)Had me with a highly unstable heart rate, purging all the water from my body, if I drank more water I would throw it up immediately. 1gram would probably nearly kill you even without any coke. Congrats. You’re dumber than I am 🤣👏

Proud of your choice to live a better life!

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It WILL eventually kill you man. A month after my scare I went to a funeral for someone who died while playing with his 3 yo daughter. He was 32 and did coke every day for the last 10 years. His heart just gave out on him.

You got this.

All the best .. bless

Yup. I remember one night I ran into an acquaintance in a convenient store parking lot. We got to talking and he asked what I was up to and somehow me graduating from college come up in conversation to which this person replied..” you went to college?! Shit, I thought you were just a coke head.” I really took a long hard look at my life that night and just said no from there on. It killed me to think that people I didn’t even know thought I was some uneducated junkie without any achievements.

I've had the "surprised you're still alive" comment before. I've always held a steady job, and kept my shit together. I just liked to party...

I do it every couple months or so just because. If it wasn't so expensive I would have probably developed a habit by now. Just doing a bunch one night will make you feel like you're going to die. The worst part is you can do some, but have to somehow keep up your critical thinking as when to enough is enough for the night, but that's hard to do when you're drunk and doing cocaine at the same time. I can see how it's super easy to overdose on the shit. Shouldn't use it at all, but once you've had a taste - GOD DAMN. It's too easy to party on and makes you feel invincible. I'm glad you stopped, my brother has become dependant on it and I don't know how to tell him how to quit.

I was spending $600/week on it. I had used cocaine in the past but when my friend collapsed and died in front of me (from a genetic disorder not drugs) it took me to a dark place and cocaine was my escape. I realized I was about to join him that night and I decided that I wasn't really ready to do that...

190?!?!?! Did it crack a fucking rib?

I get to 190-200 on the bike now and then. Highest I saw it in a race was 205. It's not impossibly high, but he was probably exaggerating a bit when he said 190.

That's 190-200 peak. 190 resting means any action would spike well past 200.

And I'm saying 190 resting was highly unlikely, despite a drug habit. I could see it at 150 resting, max.

Totally possible and it's called supraventricular tachycardia

Resting is a constant measure, peak is momentary.

Well when you're in SVT it's pretty damn constant until addressed

My fitbit showed 190... Idk how accurate it is. When I first looked at it and saw 160 I started freaking out and it then went to 190. My palms were soaked in sweat as were the soles of my feet.

I developed clinical anxiety as a result and had to go to a cardiologist a month later just to make sure everything was ok.

He said I should have died or at least had a heart attack and the fact that I had no tissue damage to my heart at all was a miracle. My heart rate was above 100 for about 2 days

This doesn't sound right... you're not facing death just because your heart rate peaks at 190. Nor would you have had tissue damage from that happening one time.

I also had irregular heartbeat. I'm not a doctor but the ones I spoke to said it should have lead to an AMI. I had a sustained heart rate of 160-190 for a few hours without any physical activity and in-between had irregular heartbeat. Followed by 2 days of tachycardia over 100 -110

Exactly 100% My bf is a recovering alcoholic, me and his mum would always try and tell him he’s going to end up killing himself. He drank over a 60lb (over 1000oz) of high percent rum in one fucking day. He always didn’t give a fuck because the dr always said he was healthy. He couldnt grasp that it doesn’t happen right away, but when your old you’ll be paying for it and you won’t be able to go back in time (well maybe he will who knows he’s only 25) Thank god he’s 90% better

Do you mean 100ozs? A thousand ounces of liquor is way more than anyone has ever drank.

I don’t know I’m in Canada we always call it a 60lb bottle but now that I think of it maybe it’s actually 60oz?

I wish I could have been buttpincher's toilet 4 years ago.

I really hope your town's wastewater treatment was up to snuff

It is we actually have some of the best tap water in the country thankfully.

Congrats man. It takes guts to do that

I work at a ER where I see exactly this case from time to time, always young people. It should be a wake up call and I always make sure that the patients realise exactly that.

People don't realise that you can actually die, or worse, live the rest of your life with chronic heart failure.

holy shit, I'd still take that off your hands! Although I have had less anxiety than back then, only just noticed. Huh.

Good work. Man your post has me all proud. What a great decision.

Your story is tragic, but somehow I feel people like you never learn. They say, "yeah, cocaine sucks, but marijuana is totally fine". Truth is every drug is dangerous if abused, so we should do as much as possible to control them.

Huh? I haven't touched it in 4 years... I was around it a couple months ago and had zero desire to use it. Good job generalzing me though.

As I said, I don't mean you precisely, I mean people like you, other people. I feel, from what I read in these threads, that some people just don't change. They stay away from a drug after a difficult experience, but then go right back at it with a different drug "because it's their body and they know what they are doing", and so on.

😭 noooooooo.,.

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You know they do clean the water before they send it back? Also a noticeable amount of a drug split across hundreds to thousands of cubic feet of water probably is a lot less concentration than you'd think.

So you value a little bit of cocaine in the water higher than a persons life. God, you are disgusting.

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Do you realize how expensive cocaine is? That was like maybe 15grams of quailty coke... You're a fuckin moron. And that's the first and last time I flushed it. You need help buddy

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I helped myself thanks. Try being a little more compassionate buddy it'll take you places

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Ur weird. Anyway, have a good night.

What does this have to do with the water? Many places would likely have a higher cocaine levels just from coca leaves in water.

What do you usually flush down a toilet?

I'd much rather have a slight chance of having a tiny trace of cocaine in my water than I would fecal matter.

Congratulations you fixed nothing.

If only I could convince my friends to move away from our hometown...

I'm almost positive if SO and I still lived back at home one of us, if not both of us, would have a coke problem.

I used to have a coke habit at some point too. Then bad things started happening to me (crashed my car twice, almost got arrested, constant fights with boyfriend and family, failed 3 college classes, never had any money, was super unhappy when sober).

I stopped when the “bad things” started adding up. I didn’t drive when high, but my two crashes were the next day after a binge, hungover. I realized I had to get my shit together or it would only get worse. Moved to another country a couple months later and never touched the stuff since (it’s been 4 years). It’s fun at first, but then it just becomes sad

fun at first and then just sad is the perfect description of the coke lifestyle lifecycle

Every drug lifecycle. (Hard drugs anyway)

Even weed in my opinion. When my best friend won't even speak to me til he has a smoke. It's really sad.

Yeah I had to transfer no a different University to get away from it. It's really the only way.

I lived in a share house full of speed addicts. I became fully addicted. One day I was waxing my car at the top of the driveway. The handbrake (which I’d been using as an actual brake because my pads were shot) gave way and the car rolled down the driveway and through a wall. I moved across the city and back to my folks’ house and had no way to score without a car. Only thing that saved me. Choose your friends wisely.

I had a lot of druggie friends growing up. Many were on pretty hard shit. I always told myself that I would stay clean and be a good influence on them.

It didn't work. I stayed clean but was never able to help anyone else overcome their addiction/desire to be high. I eventually had to walk away from all of them.

As far as I could tell when I still had Facebook, they are all losers in their later 30's. I did significantly better than all of them.

nice! winner winner chicken dinner

Honestly, when you care about people addicted to drugs, there are no winners.

That’s shitty.

It’s shitty both ways: hard for the non-addict to watch, hard for the addict who (usually) knows what they’re putting those who care about them through.

I don't think it is meant to be rude, just a succinct description of how sad it can be.

Yes... this is a lesson in itself.

You HAVE to give up your bad friends or they will drag you down and keep you down.

It’s [The Bucket Of Crabs] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality) thing.

“Oh, come ON man, one hit is not going to hurt you.”

Yes, it will, because if you go back you’ll never quit again.

20 miles? That's like 15 min drive anywhere. My friend had to move to Alaska to quit his old drug habits

It takes 15 mins to drive from near the border of the city to the centre. I also just googled and it's actually 25 miles. To travel 20 miles in 15 minutes, you'd need to keep an average of 80mph, which isn't gonna happen on these roads. in reality it takes 55 minutes late night early morning, or 80 if it's busy.

I feel this. I didn't go to college right after high school and developed a bit of a habit. Ended up going to college and being in a new environment totally changed it. I think it's because back home it was literally a habit, just something I did with my friends out of routine. Without that routine I didn't have any desire to do it.

Moving away is one of the best things you can do for yourself after quitting dope. I moved to my parents farm house in the middle of Iowa. If it had been easy to access I couldn't say I would have gone all the way and quit.

That’s what I had to do too when I realized that I was like coke a little too much.

I have just made the decision to quit doing coke as of Saturday morning. I have wasted about $8000 on coke over the last two months that could have been used for school in September. I'm so angry that I let myself get here, but I'm crawling out of it. Going back to school has been my biggest motive for stopping. I want an education more than I want to get high. It's so difficult though.

My friend was caught up in a coke habit in her early twenties. She slowed down when she ran out of money and her dealer was demanding sexual payment. Then quit cold turkey after he was killed in a car accident. I'm pretty sure that if he hadn't died, she would still be stuck in that downward spiral.

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You are reading it wrong. We all understood it to mean getting away from the bad influence. Perhaps it would be better worded as "moving 20 miles from both my friends and dealer fixed that".

20 miles couldnt and wouldnt keep me from cocaine, ever...Good for you, I guess.

That’s, like, a better than average commute in LA. Seriously just 20 miles and you can lose contact?

Where I grew up that wouldn’t take you past the city limits, and where I live now that’s just one town over.

I actually still work there too. My friends all live further south but my dealer lives there and is a pain to get hold of at convenient times, and I don't drive to that city much and he's at the north end, a good half hour walk from the station. It's just inconvenient. I used to get drunk and give him a call, but cut that out and it's a fair bit, and I literally got out of the habit. Because I used to live in the city we'd go out, then come and party in my flat which was surrounded by shops or nothing, we never got a noise complaint. And he was a 5 minute cycle. It went from easy, to inconvenient and something I need to do sober. It's easier to not do when you're sober.

Damn, 20 miles? I had to move 5,600 miles to get away from it. Worth it though.

This is the fucked up part about drugs. No matter what kind of rehab or help is available, most relapses would seem to me because many people can't get away from bad influences like you managed to. Kudos to you.

It doesn't really matter where you live, drugs are everywhere.

I have a friend who plans to try coke. How addictive is it from the start??

That's awesome but as someone who abused tf out of a both of those substances, stopping the yayo was so much easier for me. There just isn't a physical component like there is with opiates. I found that cutting the booze took care of the yayo problem. I never could do one without the other.

Yeah, I detailed something like that in another comment. I couldn't get it when I was drunk so I cut the association basically.

I havr a coke adiction too. Sometimes its nice to sit back with a cold bottle and- Oh. You dont mean that, do you :(

Jeez, that's intense. It's terrible to see people you were close to or shared experience with slowly decay to substance abuse.

I remember when my friend group started too. I tried to be the choice of reason, but it always started with a doctor's prescription, and a doctor wouldn't prescribe something that could hurt someone, right? And then it's basically the same as an h-tab, so what's the big deal if they want to save some money and buy heroin tablets instead? I left that group of friends when shit started getting stolen - there is no loyalty when it comes to addiction.

Is there any good, nonpartisan data on a possible weed-->heroin connection? I realize that has been claimed by anti-drug crusaders for decades.

I think this is such a case by case basis. I know people who wanted to try everything before they even touched weed (that was ambitious me). I know people who, after finding out weed wasn't this big scary drug they talk about in DARE, think that maybe they lied about the other stuff too. I know people who said I'd never smoke pot then said I'd never do pills then said I'd never do hallucinogens then said I'd never do heroin.

I think the other reply to this comment is the case in a lot of cases as well. Dealers who sell illegal things probably sell other illegal things. Dealers I know sold weed to support their dope habit. I once had a jack of all trades dealer who sold a plethora of pharma drugs, LSD and mushrooms, DMT, coke and crack, and weed so he could support his dope habit.

There literally isnt. Its just as likely these people drank as well. The only possible relator is that most dealers sell more than one drug. As you pick up weed more and more you will see these other drugs more and more. Get familiarized with them. See their users. I only stared doing blow after years of saying no because the new group i was with wasnt total fucking losers and had their life together. They just also enjoyed coke. Also theyd give me free lines. That doesnt hurt.

I remember in middle school my entire friend group ditched me, talked mad shit, started rumors and basically made my life hell because I started smoking weed occasionally, so apparently I was a loser. That same group of kids were telling me senior year how heroin "isn't so bad." Like, fuck alls yalls, I'll stick with my devils weed and my newer easy-going stoner friends. Another fucked up thing is that one of those old friends was a lifelong diabetic, so they all jumped into IV shooting up basically immediately. Feels bad some of them have died and the rest are hanging by a thread, but they really were assholes before the drugs too.

This is why it helps to have friends who aren't afraid to "keep it real" and let each other know that you are fucking up hard fam, and no one is going to feel bad for you when you're dead because the last memories you left are of you as a piece of shit junkie (having heard/given this advice, it seems to work well in the early days of an addiction)

Who gets bored with weed?

Once you try hard shit it becomes boring in retrospect.

GOOD question. But to be fair this was 11-12 years ago and when all you have access to is shitty Mexican Brown, you may want more.

When you go hard with the regulars like booze and weed you get bored when it comes to a weekend and you've been doing those two all week. Then it's a pill, then a powder.

You mean, all but 1 DIDN’T get their shit together?

“All but 1 got their shit together.” So everyone except for one got their lives straightened out?

Well the one I was referring to got clean and is working on his PHD.

You mean "only 1" not "all but 1."

Ah gotcha, ya good thing you fixed it, makes sense now.

I had a group of 5 friends that went to a party without me because I had to work that night. All 5 took roxicodone that night and quickly became addicted. In less than a year, 4 of them started heroin. 2 of those are dead, the other 3 are not doing too well either.

I'm curious what kind of neighborhood are you from? rural, rich suburb, urban?

How ca you get bored of weed. The entire point is weed is to get you more bored.

Is it still considered lame to call weed the gateway drug? I don't smoke but don't care if people do however is what happened to your friends a common enough thing that it's something people should worry about?

So it is a gateway drug?

Crazy how - bunch of people get bored with weed and move to worse things, and a bunch of people use weed to avoid those same worse things. Same thing, different people

Hey didn't you post this story a couple of months ago on a previous r/askreddit thread?

Or was that a different redditor?

Naa, sadly my story is not unique.

Would you say weed was a gateway drug in these instances?

No, boredom was

So if weed wasn't around they would have jumped right into heroin?

I get your point but this is anecdotal and correlation/causation

You're friend developed an association of altered states of consciousness with pleasure, probably start with alcohol if not weed, but that's what lead him to move on to heroin, and that's the real danger of marijuana.

How many of those people who moved on tried cigarettes first, or booze, or pancakes? Probably close to 100%

cigarettes and booze are gateway drugs too in that they make people start associating altered states of consciousness with easy pleasure. Then, if they can't find any other pleasure in their live, they just for more and more.

How the fuck do you get "bored with weed"? Definitely the wrong mindset

Damn how do u get bored of weed, maybe they should see...a therapist?

Trying to help a friend now who has had a pill addiction for a year, hoping he doesn't turn to heroin. It's hard seeing a friend spiral downward like that.

Good luck man, it's a rough thing to deal with especially if you live in an area with little resources.

I live in Tampa, Florida, right on the central peninsula hurricanes love to route to. Usually we just get the bands that spin around, not the eye of the storm. This means little damage but typically power outages lasting anywhere from hours to 2 weeks, with solutions dependent largely on your local utility (which suck).

When Hurricane Irma came through in September 2017, I boarded my house and prepared for the worst, including withdrawing $100 for green to get me through the week! At the same time my long-time buddy asked for a $100 loan; I gave it no problem.

Sadly, I assumed after weeks of him dodging me that he likely allocated it toward a relapse, he had a history of pill use. I thought I was helping him in a time of need, and I guess a part of me wished it were for weed.

I still haven’t heard from him :/

Never trust a junkie even if they are your friend. I never thought I’d lie or so the things I did either to get heroin or pills, but I did. It changes the way you think. Luckily I haven’t touched opiates in a couple years but others aren’t as lucky.

I’m near Tampa also, and it’s so easy to get anything in that area. Between Pasco, south st Pete, and south Tampa it’s an addicts dream.

I was pretty bad and have almost 3 years now. I did some bad stuff, but I avoided trying to get money from all my friends and family for the most part. It helped I kept a high-paying job all that time. I'm so glad I didn't have to clean up that mess. It's a tough hell to dig out of for anyone, and I think for some people the shit they've done keeps them out longer because the shame is too much to bear.

It sounds like you're out of it too, so good on you!

That's shame for you. He knows that he abused your kindness for his addiction and he knows it was a cunt move. So now he can't really face you without being reminded of the shame.

And how does an addict cope with shame?

Take the initiative to forgive him if you still wish to support him. Or let him fall out of your life. Either is valid.

I did forgive him. He just doesn’t know it because he won’t speak to me.

Well, that isn't your fault. I just thought that if you hadn't told him yet, you should. But if you have, you're not responsible for doing any more.

Speaking from experience, there is almost no helping an addict that does not want to be helped. Set firm boundaries with yourself and them and stick by them.

Agreed.

Very shitty reality, I've done it myself with others trying to help me and attempted to help others. It almost never ends well.

:(

You cant cure it, you didn't cause it and you cant change it. The three C's of Al-anon, a program for families of people struggling with addiction and alcoholism.

I can tell you that most people who go to heroin start with painkillers; I did it and my 7 dead friends did it. I, luckily, got clean, and will have a full year on May 8th.

I urge you to not allow them to take their addiction lightly. Even the pills, which EVERYONE WHO IS ADDICTED TO THEM, says the SAME thing: “It’s not like it’s heroin.” Yes, it fucking is. When those pills get too expensive, and they’re dopesick enough, $40 for a bundle will look much better than $40 for two roxies.

If you need anyone to talk to, or any help, by ALL MEANS, PM or respond. This goes for anyone else that is struggling or considering relapsing; Message me, not your dealer.

My friend is using. He started smoking pills just over two years ago and recently started smoking dark about 6 months ago. I grew up doing drugs with him (weed, molly, coke, acid, you know, the fun ones). So he can be open with me, and I use that to try to have him talk to me about his problems, but I just wish there was more I could do. How do you actually break that barrier?

Unfortunately, and this will be the hardest thing to swallow...but YOU cannot make him realize his problem; HE must arrive at that alone. We can beat it over their heads until we’re blue in the face, but unless an addict admits their addiction, and wants to stop, there’s no barrier to be broken, nor hurdle to leap.

The only thing you can do is offer support, courage, and inspiration. Do not help financially, and do nothing to further their behavior or enable them. As a friend, you will want to take them in if they’ve been kicked out, or offer money when they’re sick, but it’s allowing them to continue the lifestyle. Eventually, when your friend sees that no one is going to help them kill themselves with drugs, no more relatives to hit up for a $50, no more friends’ couches to crash on, and they’ve alienated everyone else, and they’ll have run out of options, and perhaps change. It’s called “finding their bottom” and no one but the addict themselves can find it.

It’s hard; you’ll want to help, but you CAN’T. Anything, even something as small as a ride to score, a cheeseburger, or a $20 spot helps them continue their addiction.

It took me alienating almost everyone I cared about, losing the people most important to me, both to the needle and then turning away, totaling a car, high, almost killing myself, and being alone, 266 miles away from home with no where to go and nothing but my backpack, a laptop, a change of clothes, a phone, and a debit card before I changed. It also wasn’t my first attempt at sobriety. I had had some clean time, and was a functioning addict who taught college, but always relapsed. Even when I got clean, I wasn’t fully clean; I always kept it tucked away somewhere JUST IN CASE. It wasn’t even heroin, it was something as simple as a dealer’s number in my phone, a needle, or something...I wasn’t Fully commuted, no matter what I told myself. I didn’t change my lifestyle. I had always just went to rehab or got clean because someone wanted me to, i fucked something up in my life, or I was running out of money. This time, I wanted more; I wanted to live life without having to hit the grind every day. I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. It’s such a fucking chore to be an addict. Find the money, find the drugs, wait for the drugs, get the drugs, find the needle, find a vein, and revel in the momentary bliss before I realized that I had to start the whole process over again. If I put even half as much effort I put into heroin, into furthering my career or finally getting my PhD, I would could take over the world.

The most important thing about that realization was that I ALONE came to it...I HAD to, before I could change, and so will your friend.

I’m here, always, to help.

$40 for TWO roxis?! That doesn't even buy you one anymore. It's no surprise the drastic shift to heroin as a whole.

Why do users go IV instead of snorting or ingesting after switching from pills?

almost no-one starts with injecting when switching from pills, but as tolerance rises and money gets shorter you gotta get the best bang for your buck. sadly it's all just downhill from there 99% of the time

That's what I figured.

I would say the most popular form of H in the south is Tar-which is exactly what it sounds like. Impossible to snort, and ingesting orally just doesn't work. So that leaves smoking or IV

My advice to you is give up trying to help, and instead just be supportive of positive choices. When someone is far gone sometimes the best thing you can do is just cut ties with them until they are sober. I know it sucks when you love someone and they are like that but they truly and honestly have to put their big boy pants on and help themselves first. Which is an incredibly hard and terrifying descision to make.

When someone is far gone sometimes the best thing you can do is just cut ties with them until they are sober.

I would very much disagree with this. Addicts are usually struggling with so much, how can another broken relationship help them? Are you suggesting that if an addict is not ready for help, it is better to abandon them and wait for them to figure it out themselves? My best friend is currently smoking heroin and the last thing I would ever do would be to cut ties. I'm always there to lend an ear to. I couldn't imagine if I cut ties and then he passes and its just over. I'd rather continue to show my love and support and make him know that there are people that care.

I think cutting someone out only contributes to the reason they use. Please elaborate if you disagree

I'm suggesting that dragging yourself through the mud with guilt, sacrificing time and money, and normalizing their addiction by ignoring it is a terrible and enabling thing to do for both parties.

As a former junky myself, a dose of reality was when both of my parents told me that they would not accept me, help me, or see me until I was done murdering myself.

My brother in law is a junky right now, and meth addict. My mother in law gently rubs Neosporin into his meth sores, gives him money, a place to do dope, has given him 3 trucks that he has either sold for dope or had stolen or impounded. He pitches in nothing, effecting my family life as well. What she is doing by helping him is wrong. She normalizes the fact that he can't function and ignores all of the warning signs as he steals from her and brings his discgusting friends around her.

When it's bad, and I mean BAD, then it is the best thing to do

What a terrible enabler that mother in law is. It's crazy how some parents are like that even when the addiction gets progressively worse. It's a family addiction.

Absolutely. I asked her why she puts up with that shit, her short answer was "When it's your child you don't see them as a grown man, you see them as you cradled them in your arms" She went on to say "If it was your son..." I stopped her right there, maybe because I have a better idea of what it's like, and have experienced my parents putting me out, but I could not in right mind do that to my son. Maybe I just don't know what the situation feels like from the other side, but it doesn't help the addict and it doesn't help you, just for the security of knowing they have a place to sleep.

I would support my child as soon as they decided to go into a program, and give up the street life, but street life does NOT mix with home life.

This here is the way to look at it.

The addict has already given up on himself, why would YOU giving up on them be of any use whatsoever?

Yes, I would suggest to cut ties. Your best friend is nothing but toxicity. I understand helping someone out who has been beat down by life, but an addict is beat down by themselves. One is actively trying to better their life, the other is trying to get people to throw a pity party for them and get even higher.

I dunno man, I think that's a pretty twisted view. My friend is not using to get people to feel bad for him. He uses as a coping mechanism. He is much more than toxicity, I don't know where you got that from. Not all addicts are deadbeat junkies. Many of them are functional addicts where someone on the outside might not even know he was using. On the outside he is a very kind, positive, and respectful person. He is ashamed of his addiction. He doesn't smoke to 'get even higher' he smokes to numb himself from so many different sources of pain. And once it's got it's grips on you it's a vicious cycle. I've never seen a substance so powerful to draw people in and hold on to them so tight.

Oh, but he’s such an amazing person! -every acquaintance of an opioid addict ever, before said addict stole their belongings.

That best friend you had before Heroin is dead. That’s the way it works. Getting old best friend back won’t ever happen. He’ll be forever damaged, IF he comes clean. And if he doesn’t, the day he died was when he first smoked/snorted/took/injected it. That’s what rhe drug does, it kills people, long before they die.

As a recovering addict myself, I have to say something. Yes, you should cut out the addict. Stop enabling, no more of them in your life. That's how we get better, we hit bottom.

However, I can't say the person is forever gone. I know of 4 people all in recovery that are almost the same they were before they were active addicts. I think you have to process that time/issues you had and you can make a comeback. if you just stop using you'll be a shell of a person. If you truly recover with the help of radical honesty and introspection I do believe you can live again, sometimes even better than before.

I'm happier today than I was before I ever used hard drugs. I'm more in touch with my feelings and have better relationships. It's all because of recovery. My addiction was almost like a blessing in disguise.

Absolutely. But I’ve often had the experience that addicted people expect you to let them into your life again, just because their ‘clean’, ignoring all the nasty shit they did whilst addicted... Like no.

Especially when they lapse 2 months later.

I get that. They need to demonstrate their recovery for a while and then make an amends by paying back or doing something to write their wrong before expecting that. I waited almost a year before reestablishing some relationships.

For most if the habit is worse enough, the only thing that can help them is hitting rock bottom. You can’t hit rock bottom without losing all the help from the people around you. As much as you want to be helpful and supportive while they are still using it’s indirectly saying that you approve of their actions. Sure you may say I don’t want to see you like this and I don’t approve but if they keep using and you’re still there for them after saying that it’s basically the same as being okay with it.

The fact that you still believe in a "rock bottom" proves you have never been there. Those of us that have know that there is always a subbasement.

IMO it’s semantics, rock bottom is technically the worse it’ll ever be, so when you hit that rock bottom but then you went further down, that means it wasn’t your rock bottom the first time

Kinda my point exactly... anyway... The thing about all those rock bottoms, though? Hitting them doesn't help anything for anyone. It just leaves you bruised and broken. Go to any rehab anywhere in America and ask the junkies there about the rock bottom that brought them there... And the 9 rock bottoms that brought them there the last 9 times through the system.

Now you might say "but it brought them into rehab." Well look at the statistics for how helpful that actually is and come back and tell me how hitting rock bottom helps.

Hitting rock bottom got me sober from alcohol. I'm sure heroin addiction is hell on earth but no one is going to get clean until they hit that moment of, "I'm fucking done."

And that's only the first step to getting clean. It's up to the person to completely change their lifestyle in order to stay clean. Tons of people relapse because they don't make those drastic changes. They stay in the same area, talk to the same people, etc.

Getting into rock bottom does not mean going to rehab. For many dopeheads, rock bottom is death. That's the lowest you can go, not existing anymore.

For a handful it's ODing and coming back, for some it's pawning off your dog for dope, for other's it's stealing from their gran, for others it's not being able to remember their past 7 years of their life. Rock bottom is subjective, not the clear line of getting checked into rehab.

Like I said before, for many junkies rock bottom is being dead.

I didn't mean that rock bottom of rehab. Not by any means. Rehab is cushy and cozy compared to most places we end up. I was saying to go into a rehab and ask any of the junkies there about the rock bottom that got them to go to rehab..

You missed my point. I’m saying that the event that got them checked in to rehab is often just a temporary low, and far from rock bottom. As rock bottom for many junkies is death.

That's pretty much my point, actually... usually when someone "hits rock bottom", they go on to later hit much lower, much harder bottom, because the only true rock bottom is the grave.

Do whatever you can, before it's too late.. It sucks. I was saying the exact thing you are about a year ago.. Now my best friend (he was my best man and I was his) developed a full blown heroin addiction, is losing his wife and kid, stole from people he loved, went to rehab and relapsed, then got arrested stealing a woman's purse at a restaurant.. He is a 30yr old married guy with a son and an MBA that had everything going for him. He has been in jail for a month now and I think going back to rehab. Anyway, I didn't do enough, soon enough. I know there is a lot more I could have done and that sucks. Make any and all efforts you can to help get him past it and through the tough time.

Addiction doesn't discriminate. I had a good friend who just started his career in petroleum engineering when he got too far into Oxys. Totally destroyed his career, he moved back in with his parents, but I hear he's going back to school now. Fucking opiods.

It’s hard to get someone too far gone to see that you’re only trying to help them because the choices they’re making are just causing them harm. I had an ex who had become hooked on coke while we were briefly broken up, and it was beginning to lead to harder drugs, although he hid this from me. I can’t tell you how emotionally fucked up it made me for a little while after not being able to convince him otherwise. Luckily we ended our relationship and everytime I hear about him, I’m told he looks really strung out. Which I am sorry to hear but I will never put myself in that position again.

come to r/kratom to see how people use it to get off opiates. It can be abused but it doesn't have respitory depression like opiates that cause you to stop breathing and die.

Personally know someone who tried this and ended up just swapping one addiction for another. The withdrawal from Kratom was similar to opiates as well, although less severe. Plus there's been a bunch of bad Kratom going around getting people really sick.

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good luck. Lots of addiction subreddits to help offer support, but r/kratom definiely has a lot of ex opiate users so don't feel shy about asking as you're quitting. Good luck.

If you are going to potentially trade one addiction for another do it with a doctor not some subreddit.

methadone and suboxone has it's own nightmares. but sure, if you have insurance and can afford it.

Agreed. Self-medicating and swapping addictions is a seriously dangerous game. If somebody has a severe addiction, they should seek professional help immediately.

In general, yes, I agree. However, swapping addictions with something far less severe should not be discouraged. I understand the point is to no longer be addicted, but to an addict, providing them relief until they can seek professional psychological treatment is better. Imagine people seriously addicted to pills or even heroin, kratom replacing those substances is a far better answer than they continue using those substances. It removes the risk of overdose and isn't expensive so they can have money to actually get treatment. I think kratom is the answer to the opioid crisis, I think it can be prescribed specifically to ween people off opiates or even alcohol. The problem is, our system is so fucked up, instead of being able to buy a kilo of kratom for $80. By the time it's banned and only licensed to be prescribed by a doctor it will easily become 10 times as expensive to buy. Most addicts are addicts because they lack self control. But for the addicts wishing to gain control over their lives again, they can with this plant.

I semi-agree. I think that for serious opioid addictions, Kratom can be a helpful tool.... for 1-2 weeks maximum while withdrawal is at its worst, preferably under the supervision of a professional. Then it must be ended immediately, cold turkey. Anything more than that and the addict is simply finding a new drug to use as his/her crutch. This drug will control them just as easily as heroin/Vicodin/whatever else did if they continue it long term, and many will assume they can due to the legality, low price, and lack of obvious side effects (though there are plenty). It’s a dangerous game, and if I was ever in the position these people are in, it would not be a gamble I’d be willing to take. Suck it up, cold turkey it, suffer for two weeks, and then move on with your life and STAY SOBER no matter what foolish notions you’ve convinced yourself of to justify the addiction/addictive tendencies. That’s my personal philosophy... sometimes you just gotta pay the piper.

Every addict pays eventually. The path to sobriety is hard for them as they grow accustomed to this new life of escapism. Heroin is dirt cheap and plentiful which allures so many people to it. In my opinion, anyone on heroin needs to stop using it and use kratom asap. They should use it for however long it takes for them to come to terms with their addiction. It's a filler, something that allows them to continue their lives without completely destroying it. It's not the end all be all, they must know they have to come back down to reality sooner rather than later. It's unrealistic to run away from problems forever, kratom will at least give them a chance to address their problems without destroying their lives. Lots of people refuse to get treatment because it costs so much or they're embarrassed. They can buy kratom secretly online and minimize their suffering in private. Kratom can prevent over doses and the general destruction of their lives while giving them a way out of the heroin hell.

Agree to disagree. After being on the other end of their destruction, I don’t have anywhere near as much sympathy for addicts as you do. I see your points, I just see things differently.

I agree with a lot of that but disagree on the part that these people are choosing to destroy their lives. Remember how desperate that Asian boy was when we were in Kentucky? He was trying to sell everything on him and in his car. He was very clearly a new addict going through severe withdrawal. I've been through some rough spells but I've never been through anything remotely close to what that boy was experiencing. I think at that point it's not about making any rational decision, the drug has compromised their reasoning abilities completely. Kratom will give them a way to control themselves and gain control of their lives again until they can become reasonable again. I should've went inside that gas station and bought a water and mixed up some kratom for him and told him I'd give him $10 is he drank it. We would've both watched him regain his senses within minutes and likely would've been the moment he found the help he needed to prevent going to jail and destroying his life. Most people who are addicts suffer from mental issues in the first place. The goal is to get those issues treated so that they no longer want to do drugs in the first place.

They choose to start drugs, once they’re an addict yeah they become slaves to it, but they chose to start, just like I chose not to start. Where’s my prize? My sympathy? My celebration for being sober for my entire life when they’re praised for 3 days? Do you know how easily I could’ve chosen addiction? Of any kind? Even the legal kind? How easy it would be for me to take a pill instead of dealing with my problems? My dad is an alcoholic and cocaine addict, and he had his crap around me when I was little, yet I still chose sobriety, no matter how much it hurt. I don’t lack sympathy because I think they choose to continue their addiction, I lack sympathy because they chose it in the first place knowing fully what it meant. And for those who have spouses, families, parents, and even worse, children, and still continue to abuse drugs? I’m sorry but I just don’t feel bad for them. I feel bad for their families, maybe I feel bad for the younger version of them that had all this lost potential, but I don’t feel bad for the addict. I can’t.

And I don’t think suffocating one addiction with another is helpful. I think these people need to get sober and stay sober and take accountability for their actions for once.

Kratom can theoretically help with withdrawals, but it doesn’t fix the problem. An addict is an addict, and they’ll destroy anyone in their path to get a fix, all while pretending that they’re the victim and everyone else is the problem.

Girls are more intelligent than men, men take risks. It's just something testosterone does to them, makes them retarded. They convince themselves they're strong enough to do anything and it won't impact them. Girls are also a little bit more mature than boys at a younger age and tend to avoid making dumb choices like that.

I see where you're coming from but I also think people deserve second chances. One moment of retardation shouldn't be the end of someone's life. They were in the wrong crowd or they thought it wouldn't happen to them. They didn't realize they would be hooked the moment they did it. Personally, I don't want anyone on heroin to know where I live or to try to get buddy buddy with me simply because I don't want to have to shoot them someday if they get desperate enough to try breaking into my house. But I also believe they should have a second chance at redemption with a support network, if they're lucky to have one. We've all done stupid things, very foolish things, imagine doing one and being trapped in it.

I'm not the compassionate type even though I sound like one. I just think the problem is so severe that we have to figure out how to combat it. Lots of smart kids do heroin and we need to address not only preventing them from doing heroin but treating those that are addicted. The problem seems to only get worse with no end in sight.

I have tons of compassion for those trying to recover and taking active steps to do so, I just don’t sympathize for victim-mentality addicts who have no accountability.

The best plan of action for society is to focus on prevention. Yes, we need resources for those struggling, but most of the time addicts never get clean, relapse, or OD. It’s extremely rare to hear success stories, which is devastating, but it’s the truth. Our focus should be on education and prevention, and providing appropriate help to those who are actively seeking it.

I can’t type much of a response because I’m at work, but this is something I’m extremely passionate about. I even studied addiction counseling at college. I want to help these people, I really do, they just need to also want to help themselves and that part comes first. Nothing you do can help somebody who doesn’t want to be helped.

/r/doitwithadoctornotsomesubreddit

People don't realize that kratom is THE solution to the opiate problem in this country. It's truly sad that we don't have rehabilitation centers stocked with the stuff. Get off the opiates with kratom and then plan a week cold turkeying kratom. Then go to a psychiatrist to address your PAWS with an SSRI or something.

Well, it's not only kratom. My country has a very successful rehab plan (95% recovery or something...?) and doesn't employ Kratom.

Kratom is less harmful than the alternatives they use to treat heroin addicts. People need to address their mental illnesses and be patient with that process. However, In America, our healthcare is so expensive and shitty that a lot of people would rather die with a needle in their arm than seek treatment. Which is why I say, buy the fucking kratom online and get off opiates NOW. I wish I could somehow start a rehab center of my own which employs kratom. It's a no fucking brainer and no one is talking about it.

Kratom is less harmful than the alternatives they use to treat heroin addicts.

It's not less harmful that counseling which is the single largest contributor to successful rehabilitation.

it really isn't THE solution in this country.

Kratom has it's own problems and needs to be administered properly.

Meanwhile other countries have +90% rehabilitation rates for their clinics and they don't use kratom at all.

The main problem with kratom is, you're swapping a drug for a drug, even if it's a much better drug ( and it is i'm not arguing that) it doesn't address the core problem of Lifestyle. Addiction is a communal problem and relapse generally occurs when exposed to the same triggers that caused the addiction before. Without a lifestyle change, without removing yourself from those influences and triggers in your life, kratom isn't going to help very much or for very long.

obviously that doesn't apply to everyone, and if kratom is what you have then by all means use the shit out of it, it IS definitively better than doing heroin in any capacity, but it's not the magic cure-all that a bunch of people on reddit make it out to be. Addiction just isn't that simple. That said though, community is almost as valuable as commodity in overcoming addiction and to that note /r/kratom has a lot of value, as lot of people are going through the same exact thing and are working towards the same exact goals.

The propper steps should be:

  • /r/kratom

then

  • /r/quittingkratom

agreed. Not everyone sees it that way, preferring to say get addicts on methadone and suboxone, and depend on expensive treatment centers and doctors. Considering how much money is thrown at keeping weed illegal in most states, are people really all that surprised that there's institutions being threatened by kratom's rising popularity and buying politicians to push for anti-kratom legislation?

Pharmaceutical companies. Police wanting to bust non-violent drug users. Privatized prison systems that effectively create slave labor in the United States and increase revenue on several other levels.

It's so fucking sad.

People like to respond that it's trading one addiction for another-- yet we have alcohol, sugar, caffeine, consumer culture, and internet/tv/media aimed at consumers in a way to push getting that dopamine fix. Nearly everyone (and maybe even everyone) has an addiction. It's just a difference of whether your addiction is considered socially acceptable.

I had a best friend (cousin) with the same situation. We would straight kick it when we hung out, but I knew he was doing all sorts of drugs when he was with other homies. There is only so much you can do or say to someone like that, because they will ultimately make their own choices. RIP Danny boi 😔

Question staying with this friend. If you do; and I do not condone it sadly is, never to join them! Even if it seems like something to do and/or would make, said addict friend happy. Do NOT partake along with this person. Heed this warning: joining will not solve their problems and will most defiantly drag you into a much serious problem, than you have now. You will become the addict and could seriously die or want to be dead...

These kind of human beings are very unpredictable and should be stern free if and of their advances. They are sure to make on you. Hard to trust addicts, sad truth. Their environment has taken over them. Only time will tell, sending out good vibes your way yo!!

Part of me thinks this is totally obvi.... then I just have to think of my ex who got addicted to heroin because she felt it was the only way to spend time with me since I was so wrapped up in the drugs...

😔 you are the only you, you can be. So be the best you, you can be! Drugs rob you of that ability 100%. Whoever says the opposite, has never been in the spot.

Oh my life has changed dramatically since then, I have over two years clean. But if there’s one thing I’ll always have regret for, it’s that.

No never ever regret. 0 regrets keeps u back for the same bag

It’s also hard being that friend and realizing what’s happening. Props to you for being a good friend.

My ex's dad was a firefighter for FDNY and got hurt on the job. Ended up getting hooked on pain pills and it took him years to beat it.

I guess it doesn't sound that inspiring but what I'm trying to say is that there is always hope! Just keep being a friend and let them know you truly care about their well being

Get him to realize that he’s still new to his addiction and that regardless how much he tells himself he’ll never do dope. EVERYONE that has had a pill habit that they don’t stop eventually switches to dope regardless of how gross they think it is, because it’s so much cheaper! If he’s lucky when he switches he’ll just snort/smoke it and won’t switch to the needle! Because you never go back to snorting once you shoot up! I wish your friend goodluck but i sadly have to warn you, regardless of how much you try and help him nothing will stop him unless he actually wants to stop! Affliction is a fucked up thing and it can literally rewire your brain chemistry. Right now he’s probably at the stage where doing a pill or 2 helps him have more energy and he feels like it isn’t a problem. Well soon his tolerance will only get bigger and bigger. Soon he’ll start waking up sick and since he’s spending a couple hundred dollars a day to support his habit he won’t want to get out bed to go to work because he’s sick and can’t afford to buy and pills. Sadly once you start having to do more then 2 pills a day just to feel “Normal” not high “normal” he’ll make the switch to dope because he could spend a couple hundred dollars on pills or spend 40$ and that bag of dope will last! Convince your friend to go to detox and a rehab. Tell him to stay the whole 3weeks/month! If you have any questions or need advice feel free to message me

Research and order Kratom for them to take to taper off. Of course, it will only work if they WANT help.

Kratom produces withdrawal as well. This is a terrible way to get an addict off heroin.

Kratom does supplant the withdrawal tendencies of heroin though, the problem is that if you don't make any lifestyle changes you're going to end up right back on heroin, or just keep doing kratom.

I respectfully disagree with your opinion. Kratom saved my life.

hopefully the friend wants help.

Good luck, I have had terrible luck with this. I am truly an enabler when it comes down to it. Sorry to hear and keep up the fight for your friend.

Detox > Rehab > AA/NA or SMART or Therapy

Get him some kratom. It completely nullifies the withdrawal symptoms so that person will have no excuse to continue using other than he wants to.

I remember when drugs were fun. We were innocent and full of wonder, and getting high made the world amazing.

Then people start dying and going crazy.

Honestly I was never a huge fan of Avicii, but when he died it really made me think back to around when he started getting famous. At that time my highschool friend group was just getting into EDM and started getting into drugs outside of weed. It was so fun and innocent and we told ourselves that nothing bad would ever happen. Now it's a similar story. My close friends are for the most part ok. But alot of people in our extended group never left our high school town and are either dead, crazy, or stuck in dead end jobs with no ambition. Now I'm not trying to come off as a DARE officer, but looking back I realize how naive we all were about how easily a person's life could derail

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True statement. Also, research chemicals are definitely a weird grey area as well that can fuck you up in a way you really don't want to be

What job do you have?

I'm a cognitive neuroscientist more or less

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I'm in the process of applying for programs at the moment. I landed a pretty sweet full time research assistant position straight out of undergrad that I've been working for the past few years. If you're trying to pursuit a career in research and have a similar position pop up, I highly recommend taking it. I've learned so much about my actual career interests and now don't feel like I'm blindly walking into a grad program because it's the next logical career step.

So when you say more or less, you mean less?

More or less depending on whether the person I'm talking to is familiar with research hierarchy I guess. Right now I'm mostly working on a couple independent projects/analyses that I'm trying to turn into pubs and helping with protocol design for upcoming studies; so I'm beyond the realm of lab tech. But I don't have a PhD and am not writing grants.

So, you have a bachelors, and you’ve gotten a job as an entry level assistant researcher.

Sometimes I’m glad my life is boring.

Your life prolly ain’t boring. A lot of people who use drugs/copious amounts of alcohol will completely accuse you of not liking fun if your idea of fun isn’t taking drugs and getting shitfaced.

Drugs past like 18 just made life feel surreal and like it wasn’t something I was a part of, just something happening to me. I’d drift through weekends, weeks, sometimes even months getting fucked up all the time until I had to sober up for a while. I felt like shit, I was scratched to hell, everything in my life had fallen to disrepair (relationships, my room/house, hobbies etc.). I guess you could call some of the life exciting but you end up so dead to everything that ODs, chasing drugs, problems with dealers etc. don’t really do anything for you. I would go through all kinds of crazy shit, get my drugs and then it’d all be forgotten and everything was just a cycle of getting so high or drunk that I felt nothing, sobering up in a haze and then getting fucked up again.

This. Years ago, I met a girl on MySpace who lived in a nearby town and when we hung out I discovered she and her friend group spent most of their time doing molly. I'd never touched any drugs or alcohol at that point in my life, and I'd never even heard of molly before that. She asked me if I did any kind of drugs and I said no, my friend group isn't like that. And she was like "so... what do you even do for fun?" I was just like holy shit, that is so sad.

This. I hate when your friends start ragging on you because your idea of fun is not doing drugs. I am more than happy to return to my "boring" life of going to the gym, making healthy dinners, going to bed at a good time and planning hiking trips for the weekend. Way less negative effects and consequences if any at all.

Addiction is frankly boring same with any heavy drug use. It all starts to look the same. Nothing really changes. Day in day out week in week out it’s the same routine. That’s true of heroin addiction and even of people who drink and party hard consistently. It’s monotony and boredom punctuated by brief moments of craziness.

Most addicts have only one thing on their mind: landing the next fix. How can life be exciting when 5 minutes after getting high, all you can think of is how you are going to get more drugs?

My life might look super-boring to someone who looks it from outside. I'm never bored. Never. I have so much fun with myself, and I always have things I want to do.

Same, I turn 20 this year and the only drug I've ever touched is alcohol. And I've never drinked so much I'd get drunk

Yeah, I still have fond memories of my early teenage years and my friends and I experimenting with drugs. Taking acid and shrooms and MDxx. It was fairly carefree and there was an innocence and naïveté to it. That was before the heroin and meth came in to things and before it all got pretty dark. I’m clean now but it took years of struggle and I still have a very close friend stuck there.

I was a heroin addict from 17-19. Im 25 now, been clean almost 6 years, almost done with my bachelors in chemical engineering and my life is great.

In my town we have known almost 20 people to die from heroine. Almost all got hooked on pills as young as 14 and can’t afford the pills once doctors started cracking down. They always ended up on a needle. It is awful how many lives I have seen that drug ruin.

The first drug I tried was hydrocodone. Then moved on to Xanax and others before even trying alcohol. Pharmaceuticals flowed though my tiny town. Thank god I was cheap and enjoyed alcohol more in the long run, otherwise I would have been totally fucked.

Yeah I dabbled. Fucked around with pills some but opioids made me sick and benzodiazepines made me crazy. I enjoyed psychedelics and pot. Sticking with those led to many great experiences and no addictions.

I had some surgeries when I was in high school and was prescribed oxy and percs on two different occasions. I didn’t like the way I felt from them so I never ended up finishing them. Couple of friends knew where the oxy was and stole them. Everyone’s fine now a days but fuck that shit.

Opposite here. Dabbled with hydrocodone and Xanax but that's harder to get. Too lazy to bother looking into it though I did like it.

Booze I can get anywhere.

Physical withdrawal and rehab isn't fun. Then still, booze is everywhere.

That's what pharma wants.

They get people hooked and then when they know you are stop giving you scripted drugs and that forces people to get street drugs, farther increasing Americas wealth from it's phony war on drugs.

Or rather decrease their deficit.

War and drugs. The only way America is still functioning, because without getting it's citizens addicted to opiates without making a cure legal (oh and yes there actually is a CURE for opiate addiction. Not methadone which is just a way to hook you on something else.) It's called Ibogaine and removes all traces of opiate addiction from your brains chemical structure.

It's as if you never touched it and will never have cravings. But it's illegal in America but legal in Mexico and Canada.

What does that say?

It's clearly means that America wants addicts to be addicts forever.

Truly fucking evil.

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Goldman Sachs came out with a report just last week questioning whether cures were on the best interest of pharma companies. Chronic treatment is so much more profitable. As evidence, they pointed out how the number of Hep C patients has steadily gone down thanks to the $100k pill. It's fucked up, but they really do prefer milking you while sick over curing you. Capitalism.

Ibogaine is dangerous as fuck. At therapeutic doses it regularly causes long QT. It also causes strong ataxia, which can lead to people hurting themselves.

Methadone is dangerous too, but taking methadone with doctor supervision is much safer than taking ibogaine without it.

I'd sooner go into the ground before touching methadone. It's more addicting than heroin and the withdrawals are 10x worse and last months in full.

Ibogaine is a fucking plant that has hallucinogetic properties but also repairs dopamine receptors.

Don't believe that methadone is a good thing. It's fucking evil big pharma. It's the most blantant show of "treatment but never cure" there is!!!

Methadone is something you need to take as much and often as any opiates. It's not a cure and there should be Ibogaine treatments in America when something as deadly as methadone is handed out daily to prisoners of an addiction they had little chance in fighting in this country.

but also repairs dopamine receptors.

No it doesn't. That's not how it works. If this is what you believe, you have a serious fundamental misunderstanding of how ibogaine and dopamine receptors actually work.

You are not a doctor.

If you were you'd know that ibogaine has mortality rates as high as 0.3% and is extremely dangerous.

It's not some fucking miracle cure.

It's more of a cure than methadone.

How do you guys get lbogain?

I can attest to this as someone who went down that path. It's an unpopular opinion in some circles but addiction to heroin for me translated into an addiction, or at the very least, and addict-like mentality to all other substances. Alcohol, pills, coke, you name it. That's my experience as well as the experience of many others.

I have a couple years of sobriety under my belt at this point. I didn't have a big circle when I used, but two friends have multiple years of sobriety and some of my dealers have multiple years of sobriety. The others have been surprisingly lucky when it comes to ODs in their continued use, but they don't have good lives to be sure. Some may end up in prisons, some may end up sober, and others may end up dead. It's the cost of doing business.

Why is that an unpopular opinion?

I can only speak for myself so certainly in this instance - complete abstinence is what keeps me out of trouble.

A lot of people come into recovery from opioids and still want to do things that wouldn't be considered their "drug of choice." So maybe get drunk on the weekends, roll some MDMA, or do the odd line of coke. So I can't say for certain it's the rule, but of the people I've met in recovery, both early and long term, the case seems to be that those that dibble and dabble might become cross-addicted or go back to their drug of choice if any of those particular substances don't scratch the neural itch they have. I do want to say that I've seen a few people manage to use drugs recreationally without trouble, but the overwhelming majority I've met can't manage to handle it. I do want to point out that this is all anecdotal again.

It is a very controversial topic among those who kick and among those who have a lot of sobriety because it sort of isolates them from a lot of the communities they were a part of and may even make them feel abnormal for not going to the bar on a Friday night. A lot of people feel robbed of a lot of experiences if they come to the day where they need to quit.

My personal experience was with alcohol. I replaced one for the other. A lot of people in recovery "replace one for the other," some in healthy ways, some not. It's why you see a lot of people get clean, get muscles, and get shoes and clothes. It's why you see some people in recovery become workaholics. It's also why you see a lot of people get into some precarious situations with other substances.

Sorry to write an essay. It can be a touchy subject for a lot of people.

Same story here, thankfully i got out alive. Ill never forget getting a call at 3 am from my friend tellin me our other friend was found dead in his bathroom, mother walked in and he had a spike sticking out of his arm slumped against the wall. that couldve been me and im so sorry for being an accessory to that, stay away from heroin guys

As a parent, this is my biggest fear.

It should be especially if you live in America because in Mexico and Canada there is a legal cure for addiction but in America they want you to be hooked forever.

Legal cure...?

I'm guessing they is suggesting ibogaine

edit pronoun , sass

What's that?

A toxic drug that some people claim is a magic addiction cure but--in the several decades since its discovery--has yet to have a study show positive results in humans.

I remember reading studies that say it can reduce the effects of opiate withdrawal, but the same studies were quoting mortality rates of effective therapeutic doses being as high as 1 in 300. I'm pretty sure that counts as not very positive.

"toxic drug" seems like a bias way to phrase that. Ibogaine is a psychedelic that under proper coaching can be used to explore ones-self and spirituality. There's a reason people claim it has helped with addiction, these things don't just come out of no where. Do I have all the answers? Absolutely not, but your response seems a little harsh given

Considering therapy-level doses have been shown to result in Long QT Syndrome, which gives you a 50/50 chance of surviving the next decade and a half, I disagree--suggesting that it's not toxic is far more disingenuous.

I'm sorry if "I would prefer people to not die of heart failure by way of snake oil" seems harsh to you.

It's called Ibogaine and from the looks of it the bullshit has spread since I first heard about it years ago... Sad that people here are comparing it to methadone.

It's pretty fucking sickening.

Ibogaine naturally fixes dopamine receptors and people are calling it toxic?

Methadone is toxic. Suboxone is toxic.

Please don't be fooled by anyone who says methadone is better than Ibogaine. It's not. It's worse than heroin.

Methadone basically prevents you from using opiates. The only reason I would EVER say it's okay to use is if your addiction is THAT bad to where you need it just to kick start and help you focus on your recovery for a month or so, then you need to stop. Shits awful for you. But even that will only go so far, some people end up abusing the stuff or just switch drugs to something methadone won't block, so using it for a bit is crazy questionable anyways (And just not using anything is the best route anyways. Go to an in-patient rehab if you literally can't stop, not a detox clinic for a week).

Upon reading about this stuff, as someone who is a recovering addict... I mean... Ibogaine seems strange... It's like a pill version of SOME of the things a 12 step program like AA or NA or other similar programs will teach you and help you work through. Key word: some. Basically it says it helps you conquer fears and negative emotions. That's something you conquer in recovery, but far from all of it. Addiction goes so much deeper than just using drugs or gambling or sex and other stuff, and farther than just trauma or negative emotions (though addiction does cause a lot of fear and negative emotions similar to depression and anxiety).

How far could this drug even go? Ignoring the negative effects it has. And besides, it's a psychedelic, the point is to avoid drugs. Recovery is an ongoing process, any addict will tell you no matter how long they've been clean and sober, no matter how much work they've put into recovery, it doesn't take much to revert back to old thoughts and behaviors because that's how addiction works; it's always there, you have to be actively working on improving yourself to avoid going to back to those old thoughts and patterns, using or not, you never outgrow it, it never goes away. And ive seen nothing about how it cures compulsive, repetitive and obsessive thoughs, why addicts keep doing what theyre doing, the negetive thoughts only fuel it further. And from the looks of it's ban, it looks like there's even more reasons than what I listed as to why it shouldn't be used.

Fucked up shit if you ask me. 12 step programs and other similar ones have been proven for almost 100 years now to work, and are free to go to and a great place to meet people who also don't use and willing to help you out with just about anything. Not discrediting rehabs and detox clinics, they do their job well, it's after. I wouldn't want to have to pay for a fucking pill the rest of my life.

Sorry for the long rant :(

Show me the study that actually has positive human results with ibogaine.

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Ibogaine gives people Long QT. Which kills you.

There are treatments and not cures because miracles aren't real.

Grow the fuck up. Complex problems don't have easy answers, life isn't a fairy tale.

No it's a fucking horror movie and everyone is the dumb blonde or the stupid jock who thinks it's bullshit. It's not.

Complex problems don't have solutions because the problems make profit and solutions end said problems leading to those profits.

There's no other reason. If the major diseasrs and mental health disorders wanted to be fixed they would be, or at least be farther along than they are at this point.

I'd rather take Ibogaine than methadone or Suboxone again.

I obviously know both problems I've named aren't simple fixes but the way they are handled and 'treated' are criminal.

Everything that advances only does of it's ends out wiegh their means and cures profit no one who they need profiting.

It's sad seeing people suffer from cancer and AIDS and other terminal diseases when with enough effort and desire they'd be treated and maybe even cured... But watching loved ones die knowing it's only because helping them wouldn't help 'them' is really depressing and has lead to my anger at big pharma.

Especially when my SO is working in that field and knows first hand how it's handled.

Edit: also, we can make nukes like the tsar bomb, weapons like agent orange, have programs like MKUltra.

If it wanted to get done, it'd be done.

Yeah, same here. Lost a buddy to some dumb shit. Taking his grandpa's nitro pills. Oded and went into a coma he never woke up from.

I lost a good friend a month ago to an overdose. I know the pain. I hope you're doing okay. I'm sorry for your loss.

Thanks, man. Sorry for your loss too. It gets easier with time as the anger and confusion turn into tragedy.

Nitro? Like nitroglycerin for the heart?

Yeah, he was the type that would just try shit out to see if it'd get him high. Lots of pill poppers are like that. Group of friends all once did some scum-bag shit and stole some of their mom's pills. Guys couldn't piss for a day for some reason. Almost went to the hospital. I would have gone the instant I knew I couldn't piss.

Yeah. Many former friends are addicts now. I don't care how much you believe you have your coke habit under control, you are deluding yourself.

It's crazy hearing this. As someone in his 30s, heroin was never easy to come by when we were kids. Shrooms, LCD, Cocain, ecstacy, OC etc. were readily available but no one really could get their hands on heroin easily. It's crazy how this problem has blown up.

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Eh, I prefer LED.

I guess it just depends where you're from. As someone in my 30s heroin was especially easy to get you hands on when I was in highschool. Lost a lot of people I know to it, including my brother. I live in close proximity to Philly and Camden though.

Yeah, that makes sense. I spend a lot of time around Philly/Jersey these days and heroin is everywhere. I grew up in middle America and it was basically not something that was around at all back then. Plenty of meth though, lord knows there was plenty of meth...

A huge part of it is because of oxycodone

I remember the shift from simple stuff like vicodin/percs, to where suddenly Oxycontin was everywhere, and then suddenly heroin just explodes onto the scene everywhere. Very crazy how that all went down.

You do realize that perc = oxy + tylenol. Right?

That LCD is some crazy shit hey!? Stuck sitting watching cartoons for hours man!

Geez man I have a buddy who literally would type the same thing. He’s a recovering heroin addict and got lucky enough to stay alive through the addiction. Most of his HS friends were not. Love that dude to death and respect him for what he’s been through. I can’t imagine how tough it was for him. Good on you for staying away and making it past that stage.

Damn, you had 6 friends in highschool?

Honest question, how difficult is it to just try it once and never touch it again? Sorry if it’s sensitive, but maybe you’d know of some people’s experience.

Depends if you like it or not. Depends how bad you want drugs and what's the most readily available.

Just don't try it, or any opiate. I've never used heroin but I've done a lot of oxy and other painkillers, I can't stress how much you should stay the fuck away from them unless you absolutely need them for severe pain.

As someone who has been on opiates but not addicted, I still can't quite grasp the concept. I had to take opiates off and on for years, but never had problems not taking it when I didn't need it. I just didn't take it if my pain was tolerable. I actually decided to find other ways to cope with the pain, because I had an active addict in my life who kept stealing my pain meds. I have many addicts in my family, to many substances, but for whatever reason addiction hasn't plagued my life as it has theirs. I guess I should feel lucky, but I do wish I could understand what it is that makes some people addicted and others not.

Ahhh, hi I'm a recovering addict from opiates! And booze, and weed (weed was actually my favorite, believe it or not). This might be long, and I'll do my best to explain, but TL;DR: addiction is a mental disorder like depression, anxiety, borderline, etc. Heavy use of drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, overeating, etc. Is just a symptom of addiction (yes, they're all the same thing, different preferences is all).

You're a normal person (well, blanket statement. What is normal anyways? You're someone without addiction, but i say "normal" in this context just to keep it simple and refer to those without addiction). You can stop or start whenever you'd like, you don't normally obsess over things, good or bad, and I mean hardcore obsess, everyone's got things they love or really hate, but addiction is a whole other level. Addicts can't stop, addicts get an idea in their head and it becomes their world, and this isn't always a reference to drugs. Getting hung up on what a bitch or asshole their ex was or just not getting over it very easily, and I mean it pretty much consuming their thoughts throughout the day for long periods of time is a great example (I'm very guilty of that one).

Drugs are a go to because one thing about addicts is they look for easy ways out, simple solutions and minimal amounts of work to reach their goal. Getting high or drunk, or even eating away their feelings or just getting laid constantly is a great way to escape from their own thoughts and reality. Hurting a lot on the inside, constant negative thoughts and low self esteem (while being masked by a huge ego and even lying to themselves about their own feelings) is a very common theme. "Just get high and forget about it! Easy solution!" But it goes further: having a great day? "Let's make it better or celebrate by getting high! I love getting high!" That happens a lot too due to the obsession. The physical withdraws and addictive properties of drugs don't help this at all (this is why most addicts don't just stick with weed all the time, very little/no physical addiction or withdraws from that, hough it does happen if they love it enough like me, I would regularly trade pills for weed).

Another issue is self centeredness: "I want what I want, I'll do whatever I want to get what I want, fuck you if you get in my way, you won't stop me." Which is why they don't usually mind stealing, lying and cheating and don't usually give a fuck about what loved ones think or say.

That's why telling them to just stop or do it in moderation does work, that's like telling someone who has depression or anxiety to just get over it: doesn't work at all. The problem is with addiction is that it is damn near impossible to convince them of shit due to their ego and self centeredness, which is why it's so hard to treat: if they don't want help, at all or deep down, they won't get help or they help just won't work. Shitty reality, but that's how it is. Addicts are quite literally insane people, that's why they used to throw them in psych wards and institutions a long time ago (And still do today sometimes depening on how bad it is, but the institutions now know how to help better and usually they're followed up by rehab).

Not sure if that clears it up for ya, it's a super broad subject because there is so much going on with addiction and has way too many symptoms and is very complex (and it's literally explaining insanity but trying to cover the many different little forms it can have among many people). If you're really interested and like to learn more (And have it explained in a much better way than I can), there are many books on it. The AA and NA books are available online for free (And I know libraries typically have them) if youd like to read more about it, they hit the nail on the head with describing it all and what to do about it in a very simple way, namely the NA book as it was written by uneducated people for people who were uneducated to understand it very well (versus the AA book which was not, simple yes, but harder to read due to it being written in the 30's and mainly describing the founder's experience and how he did it, but it's not bad by any means, it does it's job fantastically). They're not very long, the bulk of most books is the back where they're all short stories on how many people got clean and sober. From my experience, at least from the NA book as that's what I attend, it helps family members of addicts better understand what's going on, especially the first 3 chapters, after that it explains more about the recovery process itself.

Hope this helps! And I wish you and your family well, I hope they get help. Addiction is a hard thing to deal with, both for the addict and their family and friends. If you ever need help with anything you can always shoot me a PM :)

Somehow I missed this reply until today. Thanks for this though. I've been considering reading some of the NA and AA stuff. I've got opiate addicts, alcoholics, tweakers etc all in my immediate family and it's crazy to believe it all sometimes. Just how common it is blows my mind. My sister and I were discussing the other day how we're basically the only non-addicts in our entire family. But at least we can count on eachother if nothing else. I will definitely check into those as well, perhaps it will help us cope or even give us ideas on how to appropriately address the situation. Thanks again.

You're welcome! :D

Yeah, it's sad. There's definetly hope there! Best advice I can give is to just be there for your family when they decide they've had enough or get tired of the way they are living! Never give up hope! Cheers!

You can physically do it, your body will not be dependent on the heroin after one use, but mentally it's a different story. Some people can try it, not enjoy it, and never touch the stuff again. Other people try it and fall in love with how it makes them feel both physically and emotionally and will spend the rest of their lives trying to feel how they felt that first time.

I imagine it would be like jacking off for the first time and then trying to tell yourself that you'll never do it again.

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I think the reason people continue to do heroin despite knowing the consequences is the thought of "I know what I'm doing, I won't get addicted, I won't overdose. I just want to try it one more time just to feel that good again" but much like jacking off, it's never as satisfying as that first hit so you think "hmm what if I just took more?". Then boom, you're a heroin addict.

No matter how smart or rational you think you are, your addiction to your own brain chemicals will always make you stupid and you can't quit dopamine.

It really depends on not just your personality but your environment. If you’re in an environment where doing dope is common and you have an addictive personality then it’s pretty damn hard. If you just chanced by some dope laying on the sidewalk and tried it once, and the thought of even talking to a drug dealer makes you anxious, and you don’t get addicted to things easily and have a pretty happy life with no trauma and lots of hobbies, then there’s a good chance you won’t develop a problematic relationship with it. Don’t listen to people saying only doing it once will get you addicted, that shit is stupid and what causes a lot of people to start developing a problem. The truth is heroin is very subtle and nice (except if you IV it which..., is a whole other ballpark), it’ll make you sleepy and give you the feeling of waking up early on a Sunday morning and having nothing to do gives you. That’s it. It’s comfortable, and to a lot of people (including me), that feeling of comfort is a rare commodity. But it’s not like meth or coke or whip-it’s, where you’ll wanna compulsively want to redose instantly. No, you’ll do it and come out of it feeling fine. If feeling fine is something you find yourself desperate for often enough, then really think twice about trying it, because dope will make you feel fine on demand, and understand that, unlike stims or dissos or psychedelics where their intensity is easily overwhelming, dope won’t become overwhelming until you’re gasping for air and in instant withdrawals because you just had to be narcaned, or you’re stealing and pawning and doing everything you can to keep from being sick. By the time dope gets overwhelming, it’s already too late. If you really are intent on not developing a habit (and I know people who happily have a dope habit and don’t want it to change; if that’s you there’s no shame in that), asking yourself if you would really only do it once. And if you honestly answer yes, then yeah, it won’t capture you instantly. Hell, kids get high on wisdom teeth meds all the time, and most of them don’t instantly become addicted. It’s ridiculous to say that once is all that’s needed.

Lastly, if you do end up trying it, I recommend smoking it, as it’s the safest ROA. And make sure you’re with someone who has Narcan and knows how to use it. Never use alone. And, uh, just look up other Harm Reduction shit, be sensible and safe and make sure you have a good understanding of yourself before you try it.

Have a read of spontaneousH's post history, starting at the beginning: https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9ke63/i_did_heroin_yesterday_i_am_not_a_drug_user_and/

Theres no such thing as "trying" heroin, if you do it just once you will be addicted to it.

I tried it once and didn't like it.

Bingo. Was just going to write about heroin/drugs. Lost my girlfriend 8 years ago. Lost a lot of special, talented, kind people to drugs around town. This is Mpls. MN.

I didn't try drugs til 38. So glad I didn't. Because I would of been addicted in a small shitty town like all my childhood friends. Now I'm responsible and older and not easily lured in

Found the person from Ohio

Close, this all happened in Central Kentucky

Name a state and I'll show you a state with drug problems.

New England isn't doing that much better.

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Ugh. So sad. Nothing worse than looking in somebody's eyes and realizing they are totally gone and probably not coming back.

Detroit has this problem too.

Actually most places in Michigan do.

This is a sad truth all across the country.

Grew up in Central PA.

Basically almost my entire home town and high school classmates did this. I still live in this town and its gone to crap since. They all started with weed then some moved to Coke or pills or Heroin and even much worse. Pretty much all of them are human garbage now except the lucky ones and the two with rich parents.

Stay off drugs kids. You might get lucky but you probably won't.

Alcohol is another one man it's crazy how it just grabs ahold of you and then you wake up 8 years later and am like holy shit I have a problem. Where are my friends, family, relationships and money? Where'd my life go.

My sister right now is doing this. Seriously has fucked me up

Going hardcore after taking some gateway drugs (the pills) is the worst. That's terrible.

Something similar happened to my group of friends in h.s. By senior year I stopped hanging out with them entirely bc they started experimenting with harder drugs and no longer just weed. My social life took a blow, but I don't regret walking away at all. Several of my friends didn't even graduate.

This is very true. I'm currently in recovery and halfways through my 20s and since I graduated high school everything as been a blur. Shits depressing as fuck

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Do math, not meth.

It's not that bad, just place one number on top of the other and add each digit

At our local high school the pil abuse came after football injuries.

Here it was Xanax. Lost two people i know from high school, and my best friend has to take seizure medication now because of xanax abuse

Damn xanex is really hard to od on. Did they mix with alcohol or opiates?

Mixed with all sorts of stuff, cocaine, alcohol. But the worst is actually going cold turkey withdrawal. Thats what caused my friend's seizures

Ah I see. Yeah it sucks. Similar thing happened to my brother's friend, guy was trying to get off xanax - ended up getting a container of pills that had fentanyl in them. Sorry about your friends.

Its rough out there. Im hoping some young person reading this thread will learn about the dangers of xanax before doing it

You in jersey/philly area? Cuz loads of my friends have died or are struggling due to heroin, epidemic is fucking terrible here

It's happening all over the USA dude. Anywhere go, city or buttfuck nowhere, heroin is a huge problem.

Yeah, everyone thinks it's the worst where they're at, that's just how fucking awful it is. Grew up in the Boston area and I've lived in Philly and St. Louis in recent years and all three of those places have an argument for being the worst. It's just terrible all around and very sad.

Thats a damn shame :/ thanks for informing me. I thought it was particularly bad bc of Camden but I guess most areas have a town/city like that.

Well, afaik Camden is particularly bad but there are definitely hot spots similar to it all over the country.

You live on the east coast? 5 of my buddies died within 4 years.

I used to live overseas in Asia for about 10 years and moved back to the States 3 months ago. Lived in Hong Kong, Japan , and Singapore. While drugs do exist you really have to go out of your way to find them and the repercussions in those countries are immense, especially Singapore. I've always said if my kids got into that shit I'd move back to one of said countries. I'm fortunate that my career makes this possible. The US I left is not the same now. I know several colleagues that lasted less than a year before moving back to one of those countries.

SE Asia does not mess around with hard drugs. I believe smuggling/dealing in some countries there the penalty is death.

Sounds like Toledo

Don't do drugs!

I'm so sorry!

shiiit dude that sucks

Wow, sad, any parents around? Sports?

My parents were around, I played sports, and I still got into opiates. If an addict wants drugs, they will get drugs.

These kids were already coming for rough homes or weren't athletic. Most of them were band kids but that only exacerbated the problem as the program was super competitive and stressful.

Yea...DRUGS, if one is prone to addiction, is a bitch. The 2 biggest Cokers I knew.....one dropped out of HS and the other went to college late in life...... now have 2 great jobs and careers!

Just had a high school buddy die from this. 29 years old.

Sorry man, that's awful.

damn. What state or region?

Central/Eastern KY

Damn where are high schoolers doing heroin? The worst thing in my shool was meth and prescriptions, and i graduated fairly recently.

Lots of kids in my HS were doing heroin and I graduated in 2000. Sad but common and nothing new.

Damn dude I live in this area, somewhere around London/Corbin?

I've never done any drugs, not even pot. I'd love to know what it feels like but no way am I enabling my addictive personality.

Being scared of becoming addicted has worked for me too.

If living that way has worked for you this far, no reason to change things up.

Meh, I used to smoke pot from time to time when I lived in NL. I get really dizzy and my heart starts pounding so I stopped. Don't even drink alcohol anymore. However, I used to be a heavy cigarette smoker, smoking next to none right now but I know how an addiction feels.

Best is to never try it. I was also always scared of going crazy from drugs, therefore never really done drugs.

Good for you. If you know you have addictive tendencies, it's for the best.

I moved across the country during the pill phase of this in Massachusetts about 8 years ago. Totally saved my life. I've lost a few people along the way. It's terrifying how easily this can take over your life.

is this why youre an abolitionist?

Everyone has the same story. So messed up.

West Virginia?

Sounds like my high school experience. Took me a long time to realize that going to so many funeral for friends in high school wasn’t the norm

From Carrollton County... Definitely feel you.

I got on with the pills when my friends were taking them, but I was the only one to stop when I felt addiction closing it's grip on me... only three of our group of seven are left...

It really wasn't necessary to read the edit. It's kind of redundant.

Yep. I had a lot of friends go down that path.

Same, upstate New York.

Cynthiana native here. It’s sad finding out a friend I haven’t seen in a while has already gone completely down that slope and into the grave since I lost saw them.

Darn, that's rough...

I was going to say debt but yeah don’t do heroin.

Can I ask what county you're in?

Yup my rule of thumb with drugs as a youngster was never do anything that could kill me or ruin my life from one try.

Don't waste time being self conscious, don't waste time on negative people/relationships/interpersonal dramas. Use this time for personal development. Get good at things you enjoy. Be friends with people who make you happy. Do interesting shit.

Literally no one, ever, has looked back and been pleased that they spent six months embroiled in roommate drama. You're not going to (hopefully) be regaling the bar with how that bitch Cheryl bleached your towels in six years. It doesn't fucking matter.

No one has ever been super jazzed that they nitpicked their own appearance for seven years and consequently couldn't enjoy themselves because they were pulling at their clothing. (I'm not talking about self improvement, I'm talking about being really unhappy with yourself for the sake of being really unhappy with yourself, stop doing that, you're fine)

If your relationship involves screaming, drunken screaming, the silent treatment, weird subterfuge, or general nastiness, (and I could make an endless list of bullshit behavior) leave that relationship.

You are going to outgrow friendships. Other people are going to outgrow your friendship. This is normal. It's not an indictment of you as a person. It can be painful, handle it with grace.

And always, think before you react. Always be your own devil's advocate. Think about others, think about how you sound when dealing with conflict. Being a stable person is partially an acquired skill. Learn it.

That friendship part is so dead on.

this whole reply is dead on.

You're dead on.

Of course it's dead on. It's also useless. It basically says, "Don't be self-conscious and don't be in bad relationships." Gee thanks for the advice confucius. I thought the key to happiness was crippling self-doubt and interpersonal feuds. But now that you've set me straight, happiness here I come. Oh, don't bother giving advice on HOW to do such things. That wouldn't be a little helpful. I'm sure it's as easy as simply deciding to do them.

Do you want the person to come over to your house, walk behind you and tell you every decision to make?

It's broad advice, not custom. As a person who just turned 30 this is a spot-on reply.

Your attitude is terrible, the person made a great comment and it rings very true. But we usually don't know this until after it's all over, unfortunately.

Of course it rings true. Uselessly broad advice always does.

Here's some more advice to dazzle you:

Do your best.

Have courage.

Take risks everyday.

Be true to yourself.

I imagine you have tears in your eyes right now on account of receiving this world-shattering advice. Go ahead, see what good it does you.

Got any better, legitimate advice to share?

it's okay. Happens with everyone :)

Confucius say, squirrel who runs up woman's leg not find nuts.

^("Just a bot trying to brighten up someone's day with a laugh. | Message me if you have one you want to add.")

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I can relate to that, right after i graduated, i was put into situations that were not my own, i was put into them as a result of someone else's mistakes. I later on noticed that 90% of my problems were in fact not my problems, they were someone else's problems that I was being made to deal with.

I agree with this, although maybe not in such a confronting way.

I've been working with my gf to help her build self confidence (I see so much potential in her but shes always so hard on herself). But sometimes it's just a 4 week stint of negativity towards herself and she can't snap out of it. I try so hard to be supportive and be there for her but I'm worried sometimes she's going to stay in this spiral of self hatred until it's a habit.

I'm so lost as to what else I can do... I just hope I can show her that you can just be happy long enough for her to accept it's possible

Here's a piece of advice for you: The only mind that you can change and control is your own. You can encourage your girlfriend all you want (and it is good to do so of course) but she won't see it until she figured it out on her own. Trying to convince someone to change or get over something is near impossible without professional help,and even then there are no guarantees. Even in therapy,if someone has their mind set and they are resistant to change, there's not much you can do for them. Just as OP said, it all starts with a decision.

You can't fix her. Accept that. Then begin to find out why you are stuck with a false belief that it is your job to fix other people. If you belive you are doing it out of love, then you have to begin to question your understanding of "love", and what "love" is to you. What feelings you actually connect in something called "love". That connection is subconcious, so you really have to sit down and dig it up and question your own beliefs.

You can't fix her. I can't say this enough many times. You are both concentrated in her and her misery, so who is concentrated in your life? No one, that's who. You don't live your own life, you live her life. You will regret it, and you will not be rewarded for it. In the end she might turn out and even blaim you for her misery.

It is her job to build up her self-confidence. Only she knows how to do it, but I suspect she is actually not much motivated to do it because then she wouldn't be able to keep people hostige with her issues.

but I suspect she is actually not much motivated to do it because then she wouldn't be able to keep people hostage with her issues.

This is, sadly, common.

Here's how, as quoted from the first paragraph of the post:

Use this time for personal development. Get good at things you enjoy. Be friends with people who make you happy. Do interesting shit.

Do interesting shit.

My apologies. I can't believe I missed this useful detailed step-by-step plan he laid out so clearly.

Step 1: find things that interest you

Step 2: do them

It's really that simple, just try shit and if you like it/find it interesting then keep doing it.

Recent example for me: had a random thought that I would like to try rowing (had been thinking about it for a while). Signed up for a learn to row class that day, and now I'm doing a thing that interests me.

Hell yeah! For me it was just saying yes to fun weekend plans when I knew there was nothing that I already had going on. Like white water rafting! And kabrewing/fishing! Simple stuff like that legitimately turned my emotional state around for the better.

You're complaining that this person didnt give more clear cut "happiness directions" and quite obviously one of the pieces of experience they lended was that pettiness and cynicism and victim-hood are things to be avoided. So yes, you did "miss a useful detailed step by step plan laid out clearly". (Because that's what you're doing. I hope I was clear.)

Everything begins with a decision, just like how you have decided to see the worst in everything and wallow in bitterness. Life gets better if you decide to make it better. And if you choose this type of attitude and a bitterness, then life will continue to be as shitty as you decide it is. Look up the law of attraction if you want some detailed advice.

You use your brain to make better decisions. How many black boxes do you need to open before you accept your answer?

I recently lost a couple friends over the course of 2 years. It feels like I lost family. You invest so much of who you are in the people you love. And then when they're gone, you don't know who you are anymore.

It is very sad, but just remember that those people helped you become who you are.

Use that feeling of loss to invest back in those relationships if they haven't gone too far, or use that feeling to foster better relationships with people in the future.

Finally, use that feeling to appreciate and nurture the ones you still have. I just realized I need to take my own advice thank you!

It's the one thing I try and tell younger folk if it ever comes up. When you're in your teens/early 20's you'd do anything for your buddies, but that will fade.

The most important part to relate to them is that (most of the time) it's nobody's fault, it just happens naturally.

Yeah. I'm pretty sure that this shouldn't be true.

Im finishing my third year in college and people have said that a lot of high school friendships will end. A lot of them have, but a group of us that were really close have stayed in touch and hang out frequently when we are home. Even when at college we find a weekend and visit each other at our respective colleges. I'm scared that after college is over that it will be the end of us. I understand its part of life but its gonna suck hard if it does.

I’ve had a close group of friends all throughout high school and we all went to different colleges and still remained friends. We’re now 2 years out of college and still really close, I’m going to be the best man in my friends wedding next year. People might say that it’ll all change and it might change as the years go on, but honestly I don’t think so. I’m on the opposite side of the country and we talk on FaceTime and Xbox live once in a while and have a text group to keep in touch with everyone, but once we meet up it’s like we all never were away from each other.

That's really awesome, I hope it lasts. It gets harder as you get older to remember to reach out, so just keep doing that and you'll be golden

Eventually you end up running out of time to always fit it in. But if you all go home for Christmas and get together it’s mostly like nothing changed.

You'll always have that one buddy, man. Everybody does. I think it's the groups of 10 who are acquainted by a common activity that don't last long imo.

I felt the same way about my high school pals, and I moved away and see them once a year or so. But now, every time we get together it's like we saw each other yesterday. Even if you move apart from those people physically, it's rare that you grow apart emotionally. People's core personality traits generally don't change dramatically over time, and the times you spent together will never go away.

If you don't have a group chat with them already, I'd recommend starting one. My closer group of friends have stayed in touch especially well that way since some of us have moved, even when we're just sharing stupid shit.

YMMV, of course, but my group of high school buddies meet up like twice a year. We rarely talk about stuff--save for a few things about our hometown--but when we do meetup, we catch up, and we leave off where we ended.

What I'm saying is some friendships will end, and that's okay, but some will keep alive, even though you don't get together as often as you used to.

So true. In college right now and one of my friends came back from a semester off. We just weren't as close anymore since I hadn't seen her in a long time but I grew much closer with some of her other friends. When she came back I realized I didn't like spending time with her, for a variety of reasons mostly that she didn't want to have fun. She handles it so poorly that we aren't as close as we use to be which only makes me uncomfortable and like her less. She will literally ask me why I am friends with other people more or why I don't text her. She is graceless with the issue rather than just trying to rebuild our friendship.

She feels badly and and is flailing to try to be your friend. Maybe have compassion.

It’s not like she’s doing these things because she doesn’t like you and doesn’t value your friendship.

I’m sure it’s annoying though.

Next time she talks to you, just gracefully say that. Either she'll get with it or move on

The issue issue how to make friends :(

Agreed. I’m in my early 20s and have already let go a couple of friends (who I was mainly friends with simply because of school). All my friends now I’ve accrued from either work, hobbies and mutual friends.

Jokes on you, can't lose friends if Idon't have any!

"Friends come in and out of your life like busboys in a restaurant."

It fucking is, I lost a friend of 10 years back in 2016. It's no one's fault bit my own. I'm using that as a way to better myself as a person instead of dwelling on it. So far it's going good.

Dead on and one of the harder things to learn how to deal with.

I'm learning this lesson right now. It is hard.

Im 15 and im scared now since i literally have 2 friends. Anyone have advice?

If only the three of you are a group, seemingly in highschool, chances are that you'll definitely stick with atleast one of the two for a very long time!
And moreover you are just 15 matey, you still have a lot of people to meet at univ, work, neighbours, a lot! Cheer up! 🤗🤗🤗

Thank you and i hope i stick without my best friend aswell!

Maybe try signing up for some activity, sport, etc. where you can meet new friends.

Yeah true on friendships and relationships. Don't bother chasing if they're not putting the effort back. Sometimes things fade and if they're free you'll see them and if not well move onto something new.

Seen friends and even myself just wasted so much time chasing people who just aren't committed to the friendship or relationship any more. The person with the least interest has the most control and at the end of the day you can do something else.

Took advice, now I have no friends. Help

Good advice. I just wanted to echo your advice that life is too short to look at the cup half empty. A family friend of mine just quoted something that struck me pretty good, “The day will go by whether or not you’re happy, so why waste time on being unhappy?”

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I love that line of thinking. I have really terrible anxiety and it's really helpful to say, you can be a complete nutbar but whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen, why make your entire day suck?

Right? You can’t rewind times, so why not fill your life with more positive moments? Edit: I hope you have been improving on your anxiety. Seriously, it could be very daunting if you let it be. Realize that life is short and there many opportunities out there that would cherish you up. Easier to said than done, I know. Look at the cup half full.

My family used to say "the day is going to end regardless of how you feel about it" Same concept. It helps if I'm stuck in a bad mood

True. You can't rewind times, so mind as well make it as fulfilling as possible.

r/wowthanksimcured

And that's a fair enough (and common) reaction to a sort of thing like that, but it's pretty jaded and/or cynical. If you can possibly make it more of a line of thinking that's where you start getting on the track to actually being... "cured" if you can even say that about anxiety. Maybe lessen it's effect on your day to day

And yeah again it's easier said then done, but a similar line of thinking got me through the worst, most outward parts of my depression. My snapping and vitriolic hatred for those around me. Now it's more internal, and I try to be less sad and angry when i go through things, because the day's going to pass whether I'm happy in that moment or not, and with it so to will my shitty moods.

"Life is short, so why not be happy?" Has just never really worked for me. If I don't think life is worth living, then it doesn't matter much that the day passes, or that it's short. I dunno, if I can't find anything to be happy about, and everything just seems shitty, forcing myself to be happy anyway just seems empty. It just never did anything for me.

True, rather than try to be happy I find it easier to just try and do something, emotional state will follow eventually

That's fair, and I have a couple of friends that sorta resonate with that line of thinking. Hell, even i did for a while there. It's not available for everyone because of certain circumstances but what kickstarted by will to live was a big change of scenery. After that things faded a little but my life in general is a lot better than what it was, and so if you can do that, I'd recommend it. :)

If not, there isn't a shortage of mental health resources that exist in the world, as well as just a lot of base users on this platform that are available just to vent to.

But that is where we start running into things I've always had trouble with, I'm terrified of things like the therapist, but i want you to know that people everywhere want you to get that help, and see you succeed when it comes to things like this. From friends and family of yourself, and if you don't have those, then people on a whole buncha subs would love to hear your story of success if you happen across it.

I don't know. I think what I'm trying to say is that there's a lot to love about life if you let yourself love it. It's just hard a lot of the time.

<3

Ultimately, a bunch of Redditors can spend lots of time trying to convince you otherwise, but if you want to change and be more optimistic, that has to come from within. If you choose to dwell on shitty things and react to good advice with sarcasm, then that's how you've chosen to live your life, and those ongoing choices will compound over time to become who you are.

Life is too life to look at it half empty. You wouldn't be looking at it if you weren't alive. Isn't that enough to cherish it? To strive for it being good and easy for everyone?

Think about effort as if you were giving a penny. It doesn't seem like much, but if a million people do it toward one cause, that's 10k worth of effort. For a penny. Pick up your damn litter and don't be as much of a dick to our environment, even a little. The Earth don't really give a fuck, but life on it sure does.

It's also why our ultra-wealth inequality is so disgusting, they can give so much more and still live hella above everyone else. They live lavish enough, do they need to continue making wealth? I mean yes, they earned thier living all sweet, and thier kids should be secure in that same lifestyle, but 2,000 million dollars being chump change to some families should be going toward the appeasement of mankind. Imagine if they all did.

You hit the point. My (and yours) time is limited here on Earth, no one is gonna live forever, so why don’t we contribute something positive to the society? When our eyes are closed forever, none of this shit will matter. Let that sink in.

There's a Lemon Demon song called "what will happen will happen" that echoes this statement in a nice way. Quite the anxiety buster.

What if your cup is completely empty and you know for a fact you will never have an opportunity to fill it again?

Someone might come along and fill it for you.

Then I appreciate the fact that I'm still alive, have all four limbs, disease-free (for now), a staple job, and a roof over my head. The cup can't be all empty.

Happiness is a life style and state of mind

Good stuff. I'll also add, that if you thinking something is fucked up, it actually could be, and it might not all be in your head. Relationships, bad friends, bad jobs, etc.

There really isn't a prize for "suffering through" something.

Amen to this about relationships. I’m kicking myself for not getting out a year ago, or two years ago, or five years ago, or seven years ago.

I saw the warning signs. Don’t ignore them. I wish I had trusted my instincts. I will in the future. Thankfully I’m only turning 27, but I already feel like it’s too late in some ways. I’m past prime youthfulness that I can share with someone and it makes me sad.

Nope. You're not. You are youthful as fuck. Experiences like that aren't just common, but necessary. It begins anew right now.

You’re not actually... I’m 27 and I was abused my whole childhood, adolescence, and then stayed in abusive, toxic relationships for the years following. I made huge mistakes, was reckless, grieved my abusive father at 19 in the most horrible and self destructive ways possible.. and somehow these days im doing great. I’ve found stability in my career, I love what I do. I’m pursuing my dreams as well as building a life with my love who I never thought would find me.. I was a serial non monogamist and when I fell in love it was like I was 15 all over again. I was 25 (about to be 26) at the time. You are NOT TOO OLD to fall madly, feverishly, passionately in love and I guarantee it! Also my bf is about 4 years younger than me and my age has never been anything but beautiful to him. He loves me BECAUSE of the intense hurdles I’ve overcome and learned from in my past. I was afraid of “oh what if guys find me jaded as I get older” I hear this about women past college age all the time. And instead I have found that the valuable people in life cherish and honor your strength and courage. They don’t try to devalue or belittle it. You’re gonna be fine friend.. and I bet you’ll fall madly in love when you least expect it :) that’s what happened to me!

I’m really happy for you, it’s always great to hear people tell a story about things working out. I know I’m probably just worried because I’m still fresh out of the relationship. All I’ve wanted is that feeling of love you described, and it was crushing to recently realize I never had it. It seems like it would be obvious, but I would tell myself that she just didn’t express it or whatever else I could to keep myself tolerating things. Over time I slowly began to think she never really loved me, and I became more and more miserable. I’m overall happier now, but when I’m driving for more than 20 minutes at a one or when I go to bed I realize I’m pretty lonely.

It is pretty great to be able to do what I want when I want now, though.

I, you see I didn’t have the correct context in mind for what your situation is. But I can definitely empathize with the loneliness… When I was going through the abuse years I was always alone. There were men and women in my life at times and most often they were very cruel to me. I have learned since that we gravitate towards and seek the treatment we are comfortable with if we don’t work against that inclination. Maybe that’s something you could examine in your own life?

I stayed in an on and off relationship while my father was ending his battle with cancer that was intensely emotionally/psychologically abusive (idk.. does wall punching count as physical?) because I couldn’t bear the loneliness while grieving. That lasted for much longer than it should have. All that time I was battling all those demons while involved with him I could have been battling just my demons without his added problems, substance abuse being another one of them. Somehow against all odds I grew from that and rose above. I learned from my mistakes and from the mistakes I made in judgement. I think it’s so important to be critical of ones own failure. Especially when it’s a failure to set standards and boundaries for oneself.

I chose to accept an extremely low level of support and love from my ex partner for years. I was lonely with him and without him. Then I had to be very lonely for a long time after before I began to look inward and work on myself. I don’t mean external things. I mean taking care of your mental and emotional well being. Holding yourself accountable and knowing when to cut yourself a break. It’s extremely liberating. And I attracted better people when I had a better relationship with myself, a better outlook, and a more informed understanding of what I need to feel okay in life.

In the past I have had very low self esteem. I actively thought that I wouldn’t be able to do better than the situation I had. I know that’s not true now, and my entire outlook has changed, just like yours did. I’ve been told multiple times I was being emotionally abused by my ex, but I just didn’t believe it. I absolutely was. I was being made to feel like I was always wrong, crazy and paranoid. I’ve since found out that all my feelings were warranted, and I’ve now heard stories that confirm my worst thoughts and suspicions.

I’m really sorry you had to deal with such hardship, especially at a young age. I think experiences like this can make people jaded, but they don’t have to. We all have the ability to guide, if not completely control, how we react and handle things. It’s easy to hate the world when something goes wrong, but all it does is carry over into all aspects of your life. What was once one bad thing in your life transforms into everything in your life being awful.

It’s also tough for people to accept the idea that the way you perceive the world affects it. While it doesn’t actually alter the physical world, having the right mindset allows you to see the good things and opportunities. This is what I believe making your own luck is.

It’s also way more exhausting to be upset and angry all the time. There are times it’s warranted. Finding out my ex was almost certainly cheating on my while telling me I was crazy and making me feel like shit was an acceptable time to feel like that. But after a little while, it just felt better to accept it happened and to find happiness in the fact that I’m no longer in a miserable situation, and that I barely avoided marrying her and locking myself into that situation. I get pangs of loneliness, but I know what I really need in a partner, so in the future I should theoretically be much happier.

In addition to knowing when to cut yourself a break, it’s important to know when to know when to stop doing something. I should have ended things years ago - it would have saved so much trouble.

Thanks for your comments. I’m doing really well, I’m happy and back to my old self from seven years ago. I can do the things I want and have freedom. I just wish I had a good partner to share these experiences with. All I’ve wanted my adult life is someone to love and who loves me.

Other people are going to outgrow your friendship. This is normal. It's not an indictment of you as a person. It can be painful, handle it with grace.

That happened to me during my last semester of high school and unfortunately I didn't really handle it with grace. My best friend and I grew apart and eventually stopped even talking altogether. It was a slow fade and we saw each other less and less. It felt like he was the one who stopped trying, which is why it hurt. There was never any sort of confrontation or argument but even talking about the lack of contact didn't change anything. We had been friends since we were 11 and he was the first person of my own age who I truly opened up to, so the friendship was pretty important to me. After several months of no contact it finally sunk in that the friendship was done and I took it really personally. I ended up completely cutting ties with the guy. Blocked him on Facebook and the whole nine yards, though I can at least say I didn't cause a scene or back stab him.

At the time I thought he was being hateful but by my mid-20s, I could see that we had just grown apart like teenagers do. I didn't sit and dwell on it for all that time, but it caused quite a bit of hurt whenever I thought about it. Now though, I genuinely believe there was no ill-will there. Anymore I rarely think about the guy and don't really have any desire to get in touch, but it does make me a little sad to think of all the energy and thoughts I wasted on feeling upset over something that I can see now is just an admittedly sucky part of growing up.

If something like that happened now, I would absolutely be sad, but I wouldn't let that single event consume me the way it did then. Who you are doesn't change because someone leaves your life. You are still you, and your value doesn't change.

What if you know you shouldn’t hate yourself but you don’t know how to not?

If you need someone to talk to, PM me. Been there, still kind of doing that, but I'm in a much better place than I was many years ago. Even if you don't want advice, you can spill your entire life story. I'll listen. There is always someone who will.

Talk to someone about how you're feeling. A therapist, someone you trust. Don't wait. It's okay to be honest and vulnerable. It's also okay to feel shitty about yourself. We all do sometimes, I promise. Talking about it helps. Even if it seems really dumb, it helps. If there's an underlying issue that's causing these feelings, it's resolvable.

Try this; when you start that inner monologue about all the things that are wrong, stop that thought, identify it as something unnecessary, and refocus on something positive. Look at cat gifs, make some tasty food, read/watch something that makes you smile, get the fuck out of your head. You're initially going to have to do this constantly, but it works if you work at it and one day, you'll find that you don't have to do it as often.

I loathed myself in my early twenties. I was such a dick to myself and you know what? It was a waste of time because I'm pretty okay. Some days I still get down on myself, but I do my best to be okay. Part of it was making life changes so that I'd like myself more, but a lot of it was choosing to be okay with who I was/am. You're okay, and you're gonna be okay.

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It's not the best you can aspire to, it's just the stepping stone to everything else.

Just the fact that you're asking means that you're looking for a reason to continue living, doesn't it?

Best one in the thread so far

I agree. Only because I’m 30, and I’ve successfully done some of these. EDIT: and it makes me feel a little better

I agree with absolutely everything you're saying, except for one caveat. Don't hang out with friends that make you happy, have friends that hold you accountable. Have friends that look out for you, and intern you look out for them. The last thing anybody needs is a crowd of Yes Men.

Man I've got that roommate drama right now. He gets irrationally enraged whenever life doesn't go his way or something breaks or doesn't work. I've seen less anger from people confronting the person that killed a loved one. I'm constantly on edge and stressed because of it.

Honestly, I'm like that. If my wifi network won't connect, you'll hear me scream in rage on the other side of the world. I do it because it helps me relax, ironically.

The only reason why I've recently tried to stop doing that is because people have told me it stresses them. I honestly had no idea. I don't know if you've talked to him about it, but if you haven't, you need to do it. If you have and he's made no effort to change, I'm afraid he does fall under the category of "people you need to get out of your life".

No one has ever been super jazzed that they nitpicked their own appearance for seven years and consequently couldn't enjoy themselves because they were pulling at their clothing. (I'm talking about being really unhappy with yourself for the sake of being really unhappy with yourself, stop doing that, you're fine)

Lol, you act like it's a choice

Well if it's not a choice then it's a medical problem, and the advice to fall back on in this case is : talk to a doctor.

No, some people genuinely have severe problems with their appearance that cannot be characterized as body dysmorphic disorder or any other mental illness.

I don't really get how that's possible. Either the problem is physical (i.e. there's actually a problem with your appearance) or it's mental (i.e. there's a problem with how you see yourself).

But then again you sound like you know what you're talking about, so if you have an example or a way to clear my misconceptions, I'd be grateful.

I interpreted you saying, "it's a medical problem" to mean "it's a mental health problem", and that the solution would be to see a psychiatrist (doctor).

If someone is significantly disfigured, let's say, and feels terrible about their appearance on that basis, I wouldn't characterize that as a choice or a psychological disorder. It's also likely not a physical health problem that can be solved. You would just be profoundly ugly, and it would be totally rational to feel terrible in that case, and to have severe anxiety related to your appearance. It would be psychologically abnormal to feel okay about it.

Okay a couple of things. Disfigurement does not make someone ugly. It makes them disfigured. There’s a difference. Not everyone views that as ugly. I don’t. Then again I have experienced disfigurement myself so maybe I have a different perspective but I felt that way before my accident too.

Next, the mental and emotional suffering caused by physical damage is still best addressed with the help of a medical professional. I am in the process of seeking appropriate counseling for my issue as we speak. I have an appointment today in fact. I may need to see a psychiatrist in the end. But as of now I’d like to start with their recommended channels and then begin pursuing further help if I don’t make any progress.

Therapy will still help me come to terms with and accept my new face. It may not be the one I’m used to but it doesn’t have to feel as bad as it has. I know this because I’ve gotten slightly more okay with it over time and with a professional’s advice and assistance I think I could be even more okay with it.

You say the problem can’t be solved. I disagree. You build strength and courage by going through setbacks in life (I’ve had far too many..) and I feel this is no different. The strength of character and the passion I have for the people and the things I love to do are what drew my partner to me. He says that I’m the most beautiful woman on earth. I know that’s not true but he swears that it is :) it still feels nice. I still can believe that he finds my parts all put together to be beautiful.

I would be hard pressed to conceive of a disfigurement that didn't cause someone to become less attractive. I think more or less everyone does think this way, and to obfuscate that is not only disingenuous, but I think acts to trivialize the problems that come with it.

I've had a lot of issues with head and neck cancer, and I find it incredibly annoying when friends or family try to downplay my difficulties by saying, "Oh no, you don't have problems. Nobody notices your scarring. Nobody notices your disabilities. It's only a problem in your mind." That is not right. That makes it even more difficult. I feel like I'm being gaslighted by my own friends and family.

I don't doubt that therapy can be effective, to some degree, for some people, but at the end of the day, people that are disfigured, or merely ugly in some other way, are going to be paying a massive social price for it. Employment will be much harder. Friendships will be much harder. Romantic relationships will be, as well. The list goes on.

I enthusiastically agree that not acknowledging your pain is not okay. It’s not, & I’m sorry thats happening to you. Feeling totally unheard & invalidated is so shitty. I really do get that.. I almost lost my vision at one point due to my health issues and was experiencing migraines daily, nearly all the time. And my family downplayed and acted like it wasn’t a bid deal. It was horrible. It makes you feel so frustrated and alone.

What I think your family & friends probably mean when they say those things is that they see your beauty, they see your strength, they love you and they want you to know their perception of you is still as beautiful as it ever was and I would be inclined to work on accepting at least some of that (I know it’s easier said than done!) My boyfriend was doing it too until I took him with me to the doctor (I lucked out and met a wonderful specialist during my journey who treats me with such kindness, compassion, and respect that I often talk to him about my other health problems too.) My doctor took some time to explain to my bf that while the intention to soothe with words of denial is there it is not communicated to the person experiencing the distress. They’re saying: I’m experiencing this, and you say, this is not happening. It’s a form of gaslighting. The way he explained it, some people have the best intentions but don’t understand how those intentions are being misunderstood. It’s better to validate the person and allow them to feel heard and understood and find ways to cope with the problem without pretending the experience is false.

It really helped because now when I have panic and anxiety about my scarring I talk to my bf and he reminds me that I am strong and that I have healed from great trauma before and I will do so again. It makes me feel a lot better than when he said, “you look the same babe!” Like no... I really don’t but thanks. This way is much better. Even if I don’t believe it’s accurate all the time it still feels better to hear: you can do this! Over: there’s nothing to be done. Do you think you could have a more in depth conversation with a loved one about this? I hope that you will. If not please let’s chat in PM?

Oh, okay, yeah, I totally get what you mean. I was my self interpreting the phrase "nitpicked their own appearance" as meaning that the person didn't have any actual unsurmountable problem.

Really needed to read that friends part, and just the whole thing in general.

The “people are going to outgrow your friendship” and that is okay part is what I needed to hear 👌🏼

Same here. Going through this my self right now. Finally hit the breaking point tonight cause of this.

Really sucks when you’re the “toxic” friend being ghosted. When you don’t think you did anything wrong.

Guess you gotta remember there are different people for different seasons of life. Long time friend doesn’t equal good friend.

I guess I'm kind of going through the opposite. I've gotten to the point of ghosting this person, but it means losing a couple other actual good people.

Which sucks, cause of the amount of effort it takes to maintain a long time friendship, and the memories though. The different seasons of life come so unexpectedly too.

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Aww man, I'm really sorry. This is really general advice, and I should've clarified that it's not meant as a judgment of anyone, it's just shit I wish someone had told me at age twenty. Good for you for seeking therapy (that can be terrifying in and of itself) and good on you for being self aware. I hope you feel better.

I've recently started therapy for the same reason. I hope it at least helps to know you're not alone. My therapist says it's good sign to at least have the self awareness to seek help, so we have that going for us :)

Ain't this the freaking truth. I spent so much of my teens and early 20s hating my body, and now I wish I could go back to how I looked then, haha.

You’re a good human being. Keep spreading the word.

Thanks. That means a lot.

Just had my first experience "outgrowing" a close friendship. I'm 27 and I've had other friendships that ended/became less close due to distance or gradual and natural processes, but this one happened relatively quickly for no apparent reason other than lifestyle differences and was much more painful to lose than the others.

We went from hanging out almost every day and texting/communicating frequently to not talking for weeks at a time over the course of about 10 months. I think that unacknowledged sexual/romantic attraction (I'm female, he's male) may have had something to do with the dramatic shift in dynamics, but it still hurts that the foundation of friendship wasn't enough to bridge some of the gap. I tried to put in the effort for the both of us for a couple of months and attempted to initiate an open conversation addressing it a couple of times, but it was apparent that it just made him more uncomfortable and avoidant. Continued lack of effort on his part and being ignored/excluded from things we used to do together became too painful, so I've completely disengaged and even temporarily deleted some social media. We still see each other periodically due to mutual friends, and I'm friendly and polite as far as is necessary for convenience's sake.

I'm still resentful of the way he handled things, but I also recognize that I'm much happier and healthier now because I spend my extra time exercising, getting a good night's sleep, and engaging in hobbies rather than going out with him, drinking 5 nights a week, and staying up late. There's nothing wrong with living that life and I did it myself for a long time, but it was causing problems and unhappiness for me and I know that my inability to maintain that lifestyle in combination with him growing closer to other people is likely responsible for 80% of the distance that grew between us. I'm still working on filling the emotional-support gap that losing him left, but I have a lot of other friends that I see a couple of times a week, and I've even reconnected with a few that I hadn't seen in awhile.

I may be crossing a line with this comment, but it sounds as though you had/have feelings for this guy. "More than friend feelings." If that's the case, maybe either you or him wanted to make a move romantically and didn't? Could cause a detachment of sorts, imo.

I could be dead wrong though, but I absorbed your comment; thanks.

Thanks, I'm glad it didn't get completely buried.

In retrospect, I definitely did have feelings for him when we were at our closest, and I suspect that they were returned on his part. I met him through his best friend though, whom I dated long-distance for almost a year before breaking things off. Because of that, I think that romantic involvement was always tacitly off-limits, though the lines were blurred by our emotional closeness and occasional cuddling. I think that my continued complicated and messy involvement with his best friend may have contributed to some of his withdrawal and the eventual end of romantic attraction for both of us and subsequent loss of friendship. It's not something we ever talked about though, so I could be totally off-base and it's really just a guess based on timing of different events and the course of our friendship.

I've been there. One can never be sure if it's OK to get too close, or even potentially date, a friends ex. If your friend is a decent guy he would respect those boundaries. Which it seems he has.

Is his best friend (your ex.) over you? If yes then I think you should try again to re-kindle your friendship, subtly. Make more of an effort than he does, even if you feel vulnerable or feel things could go south. Imo, its better to take a risk than not take one, and regret not at least trying while you had the chance.

Everything you said makes complete sense. I'm sure you don't need some Reddit stranger telling you what you should do but, it hurts me to know others have also lost great friends. 😟

At 29 this comment has fairly accurately described the last 9 years of my life more than others.

I think you could boil it mostly down to one sentence. Cut the drama and the bullshit.

Last para was so real man. If you think like that whenever you are angry, you will even pity your enemies!

In a nutshell this is exactly how to be. Don’t spend time wallowing in negativity because guess what? It could suck you down for years.

Good fucking advice my man, or woman. But just to go further you can apply this to your entire life, not just early years.

This post deserves the gold it got. I wish there was a way to mark or save posts.

Press the three dots and hit "save" bud

The friendship part scares me. I'm trying desperately, as a young 20- something to hang on to the friends I have because once I lose them, I'll have nothing. I don't make friends so easily.

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Yep, I totally agree. Guys, if you feel like your friends don't actively try to maintain a relationships, it might not be because they don't like you anymore. They just might be unaware that its neccessary, so please don't do exactly the same and just wait for the other side to arrange some stuff, do it yourself even if you don't like it. If they tell you that they are busy, tell them with enough time in advance, so that they can actually put it on their schedule. Hell, since you're adults now, you can arrange a lot more fun activities than during school days, so maybe get your friends to agree on some cool vacation/trip that you'd do next year and prepare a few options yourself for the group to pick from. Start from agreeing on the date that will suit everyone (just ask everyone individually what possible dates would suit them and try to work it out). Then you prepare a few possible options for that time frame. It's way easier to tell someone "Look, here you have a few things we can do, I took care of all the planning, so you just need to agree on which one we're doing and pay for it", than try to to plan everything together. The hardest part is actually getting everyone on board, but if you manage to do it a few times, the next ones should be that much easier because everyone will be looking forward to doing it again.

Oh and there is one more thing you can do to actually don't lose connection with friends. Get everyone on some discord chat and just make them put discord in autostart. Even if they are busy, they will check it out once in a while, because it's already there and doesn't require any work from them.

This should be handed out as a good luck card when someone graduates high school.

I needed to read this right now. I have the best friends I could ever ask for but I've been having a bad day an unable to focus on anything positive. I'm going to go talk to them now thank you.

That BITCH Cherly

Thank you for taking a few minutes out of your day to type this up. Most underrated post of 2018.

you can save yourself a shit load of stress if you meet your potential roommates and spend a night with them. hell, in most cases even a 5 minute conversation should net you whether they are pieces of shit or not. i've been living in houses with roomates since i was 18 (now 30) and all over the country. first thing I do is get to know all the potential roommates cause at the end of the day most landlords are pieces of shit but you seldom have to deal with them.

Yeah, in lots of situations it's like: When you're falling asleep, you should look back at your day and say: I spend those 15 or 18 hours as good as possible, not even perfectly. Just as good as possible to myself.

this is so on point, thank you

Amazing post, but:

Weird Subterfuge

Amazing /r/bandnames material

Preach! Lol thanks for this 🙌🏽

I love this. I lost many good friends because they others me, but for the wrong reasons. Those reasons being me. I fucked sir up. But after I fucked shit up, I learned from it and made other relationships that feel very strong now. I listened how to communicate properly and I learned how to behave in a way that doesn't taint or ruin relationships.

Nothing happens for no reason. If it happened, use it to become the you that you want to be.

Thank you, my friend, you've helped me today.

I’ve got the whole self conscious thing down pat. Being bullied in elementary really affected me in middle school and high school, so I always did my best to try to look good, even on days I didn’t want to. I’m almost 20 now, been graduated for about three years, and I am so happy that I feel comfortable going literally everywhere in either pajamas or sweatpants.

But if you do go through any of this stuff use it as a lesson to not repeat the mistakes for decades to come. I think there is something to be said about learning these lessons early and closely. When is a better time to be "embroiled in a roommate drama for 6 months " or to have a shitty boy/girl friend

I feel like everything said here should have had a mellow electro track in the background and include something about wearing sunscreen.

To be fair, everyone really should use sunscreen tho.

Am in my mid twenties and starting to realise this shit now. Fml, it's hard though cause its like finding the surface in the deepest part of the ocean and not knowing which way is up and which way is down. Everything kinda feels like it's in slow-mo, and I have no idea if what I'm doing is right or wrong in the grand scheme of things. What if I'm just making a 20s version of the same mistake I made when I was in my teens.

That last statement - so hugely important, and a baseline for better handling everything else you listed above. Treat the brain/cognitive process like a muscle, no joke. Fuel it and exercise it, with the best professional help you can find if necessary. With stability comes power. A better life.

And always wear sunscreen.

True. Even if you have all your shit together personality-wise, skin cancer will fuck your shit up.

First comment I saved this is really great advice. I've been hitting the gym eating healthy playing guitar and hanging out with only the people who make me happy all in this past week but now I know to stay on this path and have some more adventures and fun. Thanks have a great life :)

Thanks for this. Currently in a tough 3yr relationship right now but I'm too weak to give up. I've pretty much always been that way if the love I have is deep enough. This instance is a little different however because I don't exactly have anywhere else to go; I've thought of it, but even if I did I still think I'd chose to fix it "one last time" if I sensed a glimmer of hope.

Hey, I don't think you realize how much this comment resonated with me. Thank you. Im leaving. Seriously, thank you. You just savedmylife.

It's like the same advice given to highschoolers: "in 20yrs no one will care what jeans you wore in HS" and so on. Circumstances change but the mindset remains the same

The relationship part can hit hard.

This is great, I recently fell out with my best friend (im 22) and I seriously thought we were gonna be friends for life. it fucked me up a bit Its still hurting but time is helping. It sucks actually, 5 years of friendship and he ended it one day because he decided Donald trump over me. (We have political differences that were always known, we just never talked about it)

This is So true !

The friend one is so hard to grasp sometimes.

Outgrowing relationships is really painful, but a necessary part of getting older. These relationships may be with friends or family. It’s ok to distance yourself from toxic people. Blood is not thicker than water. The people who love you and support you unconditional are the ones who are your family.

Dam well said.........just turned 30 and I agree

For real, last year in my twenties and I've realized, I care way less about what people think of me and way more what I think of them.

This hit me real hard! It sums up how I want to look at life in a much better way than I could myself. Than you for this!

If I had gold stars, you’d be getting one.

This is all true for life at any age, not just in your 20s.

This is good advice for any age really. Sub out roommate drama for any drama and it's stuff you will deal with your whole life.

Edit: deal not feel

When you are in your thirties, the phrase "live everyday like it's your last" starts to make a lot more sense

Get good at things you enjoy. Be friends with people who make you happy. Do interesting shit.

I hear this a lot then they take it back when they find out all me and my friends do is watch anime and play video games.

I'm in my 40s and I can say that if someone had said this to me there would definitely have been less heartache and drama in my life when I was younger. Then again it really doesn't matter what you say to someone in there 20s sometimes because they have to learn it for themselves. Still sound advice. Have this upvote!

Whoa. This spoke to me on so many levels ha. As a 27 year old I thank you lol.

I've been going on as many trips and vacations as possible while in college. I know this shit won't last forever.

You deserve the gold you received.

Thank you for this. I'm going through a friendship/roommate shit and I needed to hear this. I'm in a bad place right now and some perspective is good. So thank you for the perspective.

The biggest thing I regret as a younger person was wasting too much time and energy on the wrong people.

Learn early, how to identify non-toxic, empathetic people, and surround yourself with them. These are people who will always be there for you, who can open doors for you as well.

I dunno man, telling the tales and trials of rooming with the chick who didn't want to sin in front of my Buddha statue for fear of incurring his wrath is always a great icebreaker for me.

I would totally buy a book if you wrote it - Thank you for your words.

Hey I'm sorry about you and Cheryl. I hope you have some nice new towels by now.

I read this in the voice of the guy who sing "everyone should wear sunscreen".

(and I could make an endless list of bullshit behavior)

Can you make a list, please? I think I need this list.

Thanks for this

... I’m interested in a story about bleached towels and that bitch Cheryl...

Great advice, thanks!

Wow this is amazing

Holy shit thanks for this. This hit me pretty hard as I'm soon gonna enter my 30s. I still got some time to make my life more enjoyable.

I'm really lucky in regards to the friendships thing. Met and made friends in college, and even more recently (I'm almost 28), but I'm still close friends with a number of high school and even elementary school friends. Some of them have traveled and went far away, but we always seem to end up together.

Thanks for taking the time to write this, you genuinely made me feel better.

I am screenshotting this

This. All of this. I look back on my life in high school and early 20s and wish I didn’t care so much about what other people though about me. I wish I had gone and travelled when I no responsibilities. I though I would prefer to travel when I kids. I now have them and we can’t afford it.

Don't waste time being self conscious

Maaan, I can't agree.

There are far too many people who don't worry about how their actions affect other people. A healthy dose of self consciousness helps people not be pricks.

I think this is one of the realest things I have ever read. You should definitely do something in the field of advice columns.

"Just think positive! Being self conscious is a choice!"

If it's not a choice, then it's a medical issue, and falls under the broader category of advice called "Take care of your health"

It's not "just" thinking positive, it's hundreds of little conscious choices every day to fundamentally change your outlook towards life. /r/Stoicism resonates with me because it codifies this mindset.

-Taking your loved ones and your health for granted
-Spending too much (it's important to start getting into the habit of saving now. Though if you like to travel, do some travelling now when you're young and in good health, but travel frugally (and safely))
-Being too afraid to take chances
-Not thinking about what truly matters to you (temporary/instant gratification vs long term gratification (what you would have wanted to experience/achieve if your life expectancy is cut short))

Spending too much

paired with

Being too afraid to take chances

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I read a rich guy blog and they said something interesting. The ideal life is one where you spend sufficiently throughout your life that you die with a balance of zero at the end.

But in order to do that you have to make a lot of money while the sun shines and you're young enough to do the hours

I can probably spend more than it's possible to make if I try hard enough.

It's not always about money...

A lot of the time when a risk is not successful there is a financial impact.

Whether that's starting a business or smashing your car.

I guess that’s fair enough. Though a risk can also be asking out a long time friend or living in a place that isn’t amenable to your normal hobbies

That's true, but those are relatively low risk activities

asking out a long time friend

Otherwise you're just blueballed for life, and that's on you

living in a place

Otherwise move back to where you know you're comfortable

Hrmmm. For the sake of argument, I think there are plenty of financial risks that aren’t so serious. I wouldn’t want to risk my money but if I lost a portion of it my life wouldn’t really become worse. (I’m not wealthy)

Also I think the larger risk in scenario A is the demise of an important friendship

You're right, not all of them having monetary impact, but a lot of them do and if they don't you're risking something else, that's why they're risks, not decisions.

I know my comment was a bit callous, but if you feel like you should ask out a long term friend I feel that the bigger risk is only being stuck as friends for your life!

Yes it is. Have you looked at the world? You can't do shit without money, so it always comes down to money. I hate it.

Sure you can!!! I do shit without money constantly. Now some things require money and that’s just fair. No point whining about that.

But there are many cheap or free options in life. I’ve learned much from conversations with hitchhikers while staying at hostels.

Food costs money, hostels cost money, clothing and backpacks cost money. Every second you're not working you're losing money to all the money sinks in our society.

Food, clothing and shelter can be free if you want to live off the land

So I guess you hate it when it costs money for things to be prepared and brought to you.

You have to get permits to build anything survivable, those cost money. Good luck making clothes warm enough for Finnish winter and finding food when it's -25 degrees Celsius outside. You can not survive without money.

You’re getting awfully specific here. You can’t survive without money because it’s cold in Scandinavia?

There are tons of places in the global south where zoning codes don’t exist and people survive without currency

Well, it'd cost money to get to those places, and you're also suggesting that people give up their entire lives, what little they have, so they can live in a mud hut in the 3rd world, because that doesn't cost money?

That's obviously not what people mean when they complain about everything costing money.

That's like someone saying "I can't afford this fresh fish from the market, so I guess I'll just have bread instead" and someone else telling them "well, you can go down to the polluted stream and catch one there! you might get sick if you eat it, but hey, it's free!"

But... there isn’t one thing that you’ve mentioned that wouldn’t require the time and labor from someone else. If you don’t understand the purpose money serves then you’re either daft af or trolling me I think.

You hate that things cost money. How would you suggest people obtain and do things that they want or need from other people? That people just give it away? That could work but not when you scale up to large society. Currency becomes an adequate medium for this behavior.

One way to solve your problem is slavery. I can’t think of another.

Can you tell me why you hate this system? Maybe then I can better understand the argument.

Of course I understand the purpose of money, and I'm not saying everything should be free, no where did I even imply that. My point was that telling someone they can do something with out money but they have to give up their whole life isn't a reasonable response to people saying they can't afford something.

When people complain about things costing money, it's less about things costing money and more about the fact that they're working their ass off and still can't earn enough money to do even basic things, and it's just unreasonable. Someone working 40+ hours a week should be earning enough to pay all their standard bills, rent, work travel costs and still have a little left over to save.

I agree with this but you prefaced with ~everything costs money and I hate~ whereas this problem is more likely due to wealth disparity and low incomes - not costs of things.

I'm rather sure that as the global south moves toward post-industrialization like us, and as the world population swells, Americans will increasingly see travel for recreation as pure luxury, an extreme privilege rather than a goal that each person can strive toward.

Just some of my thoughts on this.

Thsnk you for pointing that out, I noted that too.

I’ve always been told to “travel while you’re young” but I don’t know how anyone thinks I can afford that. I work 2 jobs and can barley afford what I have.

How does one travel “frugally?”

Walking I guess

I feel you. I would suggest national parks if you can swing it. They're a great option on a budget and were honestly some of my favorite trips of all time.

/r/CampingandHiking is the place to start researching for anyone keen

Buy Instagram followers and convince hotels to let you stay for "exposure"

I learned the mind set from my parents that experiences are worth more than things. I don’t even buy things unless I can sell it for around what I paid for it. The most expensive part of traveling is flying over the ocean. After that, hostels aren’t that expensive. It also depends on how prissy someone is. As long as I feel safe and comfortable, I don’t care where I stay. Now I have to spend way more since my gf travels with me. But after taking her to Germany and Croatia, she doesn’t give me shit for not going out all the time.

Well, I assume you’re male.... options for women are slim comparatively to yours. A lot of us won’t stay in a crappy hotel or motel, not because of the conditions but because of circumstance.

We’re less likely to be bothered/followed/harassed/mugged/raped/or murdered in a nice hotel vs a cheap as dirt motel. So we usually settle for the least expensive option that we feel somewhat safe in; and hope the guy trying to talk to us at breakfast doesn’t follow us to our room and know where to go if they have any intent.

Many guys in my life tell me I’m overreacting, but how often have they been told they should be raped or go die by strangers who start out too nice for comfort?

Cheap, rusty motels aren't the same as hostels that generally have other young travellers travelling inexpensively. If you're travelling, especially to popular backpacking destinations, hostels are always an option.

Also, it's possible to find cheap family run motels that tend to be safer. (However, if the service boy calls his mom "mother" you should probably run)

Hm. I travel alone as a female and haven't felt threatened. I have literally drove across country 3 times alone and just do my thing, which is free campsites, free car sleeping, or cheap motels. I'm fine no matter what.

And yet there's tons of women who travel solo and don't think twice ¯_(ツ)_/¯

I don't doubt they've experienced some of the things you've mentioned but also they didn't let that stop them from doing the things they wanted to. I suggest asking some questions at r/solotravel and seeing what women on there have to say.

I don't doubt they've experienced some of the things you've mentioned but also they didn't let that stop them from doing the things they wanted to.

I know women who travel solo all the time and say they've never encountered anything like that. I also know guys that travel solo a lot and say they have been targeted with sexual harassment/rape attempts.

It all comes down to luck. Most people are great, the few awful ones are going to be awful regardless of your gender.

Personally, I've hitch hiked all over Europe, and never encountered any situation that had me genuinely fear for my safety. Sure, I've encountered some less savory people along the way, but never felt actually threatened.

Problem there is survivor bias. None of the raped women will ever read/post about travelling again.

More often than you'd like to know, actually. Really unfortunate anyone could be a target in places you're supposed to feel extra safe :(

I stayed in a hotel for work, it was hot so I cracked the window. I woke up to cigarette smoke in my room and heard someone outside my window (there was a bush outside my window). Immediately I thought about the guys down the hall watching me load my things into my room. I turned on ESPN in hopes that they would think they made a mistake.

I then closed and locked the window through the curtains to avoid giving away that I was a lone young woman in the room.

Living in Hawaii, I feel you on the frugal part. If I want to visit California for a week I'd probably spend $500-$1000 depending on the time of year.

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I have a friend currently living in Hawaii, it sounds like it’s as expensive as living in Toronto or Boston but with tropical weather and poisonous animals instead of sadness. So doable but expensive.

What poisonous animals lmao

Maybe they somehow got Hawaii and Australia mixed up?

Seriously, nothing "poisonous" aka venomous in Hawai'i that I can think of. Technically the yellow bellied sea snake but c'mon... those are so rare and shy and unlikely to bite, I'd be more scared of a stray dog than one of those.

Not so much for poisonous animals. Hell, we have no (known) snakes in the state, venomous or not. But yeah everything is expensive. That's what happens when so much of your goods have to be shipped overseas as if they were international goods.

Oh man, don't move to Hawai'i... Cost of living is outrageous. I think a 1 bedroom apartment is like... $2k+ a month. Why do you want to leave Atlanta?

That's quite a far move for you so initial cost will be high. I make $40k per year and live with my mom (hence why I can afford Hawaii) since rent in town is obviously high and I can't be bothered to deal with our traffic which is at LA standards. You'll need a steady source of income the moment you get here.

You could probably find a room to share in an apartment/house with others for 650-800 if you're lucky and willing to live in a not-so-nice but not terrible apartment. But electricity (extremely expensive in HI) would be an extra few hundred on top of that, and food is really pricey because most is shipped in. Pretty decent bus system on Oahu though so a car isn't a necessity IMO.

It is really expensive to live in Hawai'i but doable if you are making decent money (definitely an awful idea to make the move if you are on minimum wage and don't have a large savings account)

Sleep in hostels or couch surf (there's actually a couch surfing website my brother would use just like airbnb www.couchsurfing.com)

Take the inconvenient flight at 1pm on a Tuesday because it's cheaper than the rest, and as an added bonus, hotels are cheaper during the week. Travel off peak season - Edinburgh in the winter is cold as fuck but still just as beautiful, or New Orleans when it's not Mardi Gras or Jazzfest. Hell, I took a trip to Denver on spirit airlines for $85 round trip last year just because it was so cheap, had a helluva time.

Another money saving option is to rent a condo/airbnb with a kitchen - may be a bit pricier per night, but if you take a quick trip to the store, you can cook 2/3 of your meals and still get one meal a day to treat yourself to the local cuisine. (This depends on where you're traveling)

If you're road tripping, consider investing in a tent, sleeping bag, and sleeping pad (a much overlooked piece of equipment - a basic thermarest should be cheap and effective), and voila you can go stay at free or very cheap local campgrounds and save buckets on hotel costs! A mattress in the back of your car will also do, but be careful where you park not to be arrested or assaulted.

Anyway I'm done writing this post, but if you genuinely want more tips let me know and I'll compile a list!

By having all your expenses covered by your family tbh. I'm 23 and everyone I know who "loves travelling" gets to do it because they either come from money or have no expenses on their own and can thus use all their money for fun instead of survival.

This. Felt so much FOMO a few years back because I had to work to survive.... luckily enough though I was able to take advantage of some career opportunities and now am in a good place financially. W much bette place than many of my peers who travelled, which is interesting!

Ugh, one of my friends lives with her parents and doesn't seem to understand why my husband and I always seem broke. We aren't 'broke'. We're saving money so that we can have retirement, emergency fund, pay for bills, and do fun things later instead of now. She always brings up stuff like, going out of town or going to an expensive event at the drop of a hat, but she doesn't pay for anything but her phone bill and her hobbies. We can't just run out and do things last minute, we have to plan.

Price alerts

Signup bonuses

Friends

Hostels

Homelessness

Not as bad as you think temporarily with a return ticket

I manage it by having a group of 10 friends who're generally willing to go anywhere at short notice if they're available. If you can't make it that's fine, there's no judgement. This is all from a European perspective, so it might be less possible elsewhere.

Back in January one friend checked flights found return tickets to Stockholm for £14 in two weeks time. 4 of us were available and after a bit of searching we found a private, 4 person hostel room for £35.

A weekend away for £22.75 each, siteseeing is free so you need to buy food, alcohol and the bus to and from the airport, and the hostel came with free food. I think I spent about £60-70 in total, so less than a day's pay. I could have spent less too if I wanted.

This year our group has been to Sweden, Italy, The Netherlands, Hungary and Poland, with the de facto leader of us going to them all because he is a lucky bastard who works from home, so it doesn't matter if he gets back home at 4am Monday morning.

Haha Stockholm flights are always so cheap but when you land it's £8 sandwiches everywhere!

Yeah, we packed food for the first day because of Sweden's reputation, then took an absurd amount from the hostel in the morning when the reputation turned out to be completely accurate!

It depends a lot on how much you want it, and how much you're willing to put into getting it.

I got a rewards credit card that gives 1.5% face value in rewards if they are spent traveling. Put my normal living expenses on them for a few months to build up a few hundred dollars in rewards points while simultaneously saving a few bucks here and there. Coins and ones went into the travel bucket while 5s and higher stayed in the wallet.

I signed up for email alerts with ScottsCheapFlights.com which I found thru Reddit, I'm not affiliated at all, just a big fan.

Picked up round trip tickets from the local airport to Dublin for $350, used the credit card points so I only paid $275 worth of points round trip. With the flights being so cheap I only stayed for 6 days, so I only needed 5 nights in an AirBnB. Had some referral cash and had asked for gift cards as presents. Paid about $60/night for lodging.

All in all, it was about a $1000 vacation, but only about $400 of that came out of my bank account. The rest was from reward points and gift cards.

It may take a while, but I'd encourage you to start saving and try. It was an amazing experience.

You can drive to destinations. You can also find some hotel deals or better yet, air BnB. It depends on where you live and where you want to go.

If you can discipline yourself, you can leverage credit card reward points to your advantage.

I am from Europe, so I don't know how much my life experience differs from yours, but as someone who did frequent traveling even while I was a student, making about 12 000€ a year, I can tell you it can be done surprisingly cheap. My biggest trip as a student was attending a music festival in California, which ended up being about 1500€ for an entire week including food, lodging, festival tickets, plane tickets, car hire etc.

For frugal travel, next month me and my wife are off to Azores. We first booked a flight to Spain and then another flight to Portugal for next day, and a flight from mainland Portugal to Azores for the following day. Then, after 9 days at Azores, we have flight to mainland and then an overnight train back to Spain. This ended up saving us nearly 400€ per person. For lodgings we took AirBnB's that were fairly cheap. Additionally, we saved by taking overnight train from Portugal to Spain, so as to save 1 night of lodgings.

There's a lot of little stuff you can do to save money during travel. Little bit here and there, but it adds up. Especially when there's more than 1 person traveling.

Stay in cheap ass hostels and stuff and going to places where you can get by on like $30 per day.

I constantly hear people say you either have to be rich or have no expenses to travel. That's absolute bullshit, don't listen to them at all. All the travellers I know myself included work hard for the life they live, but they make travel a priority.

Here's how it goes. Live somewhere cheap, as cheap as possible, for me that was living with my parents (still had to pay rent and bills mind you) but the cost was 200$ less than what I'd pay living alone.

Pinch EVERY PENNY I think this is the part that people really don't get. Literally don't spend money on anything. Don't eat out. Don't take Ubers anywhere. If you're going out get loaded before you get to the bar. Don't buy anything you don't need. Buy clothes second hand. This is the part I think most people can't stomach because it takes a lot of discipline. You're going to look like a stinge-y fuck around all your friends. You have to not give a fuck about that and make leaving a priority. Every penny counts. A dollar saved is a dollar earned.

I did that for 3 years whole working a below average salary job in one of the most expensive cities in the USA. After 3 years I had enough money to travel.

Once you have the money but a flight over seas and hitchhike, stay in hostels, volunteer. If you want to travel for a really long time keep moving and move onto the next country before your visa expires.

It's really doable and the world isn't as scary as some people and the media want to make you believe. Get out there and live the adventure you've always wanted! :)

So basically spend 3 years living like a monk, then go on as cheap a vacation as possible for a few weeks. That's fairly depressing too.

That's a stupid way of looking at it. But to each their own. As far as I'm concerned living normally and just aquiring shit you don't need with a job that leaves you with nothing but a few hours of free time a day to be infinity more depressing.

But you can make it look fucking amazing on Instagram photos, tho! ^^^/S

Which is what most people base their expectations for people who travel, anyway.

I travel fairly a lot. My wife and I (I'm 27, she's 25) try to take 2-3 holidays (1-2 weeks) every year. Last year we went on a Caribbean Cruise, spent a week in Ireland and then two weeks in Netherlands. It just takes a lot of saving on other things to do. I don't buy new PS4 games, don't have the newest phone or the best computer. However, what I do have is amazing trips abroads.

And while traveling:

  • AirBnB instead of hotels.

  • Cheapest car hire instead of taxi/train/bus. (This way you can get anywhere and get to see everything.)

  • Cooking our own foods at AirBnBs instead of eating out every day etc etc.

And one of the most important things:

  • Never buy a package trip. Build the trip yourself. Choose the flights yourself. Choose the places you stay yourself. Because, naturally, when someone else is doing those things for you, it costs extra.

Well when I was 23 I quit my crappy job and went on a 5 week cross-country road trip. I had $3000 to my name from savings. Nothing else. I think it was worth it. I'm 30 now and still go on 2 werk road trips semi-annually. I don't have much more money than back then, but still think its worth it. I know I have no investments, no stocks, minimal retirement, etc. But again, I'm not gonna regret living. I figure the money will come eventually as I'm highly educated and highly motivated. I'll save the money worries for my 40s.

serious: /r/Shoestring

You don't, unless you're willing to give up the jobs you have now - that you might not be able to get back when you return - wherever you're living, if it's not with parents. That probably means you'll have to get rid of half of your stuff because you might not have anywhere to store any of it while you're gone.

It's like these people forget that after you get back from travelling, A lot of people don't have somewhere they can stay until they're back on their feet. So the other option is temporary homelessness - which, after travelling with no plans or money, you've probably been doing half the time you were away and just want things to go back to normal.

Is travelling worth all that to you? because I don't think it is to most people. Some people would lose more than they'd gain.

Travelling is for people with money, or people who pretty much live their lives outside the norm anyway. It's not for people struggling to get by in the real world, unless you're willing to give up what little you've earned for something you can't even guarantee you'll enjoy, or will be a valuable experience.

By choosing the most cost effective option possible every time, if you're flexible and don't mind where you want to travel to (also look at government warnings/crime rates prior to deciding), there are occasionally flights that are heavily reduced (as low as $200 return). Accommodation, there's hostels/air bnbs (sometimes includes breakfast, but ultimately you have a place to cook)/some people camp/hotels (some have a sandwich bar - free of charge), purchase water bottles from supermarkets/bring a filter water bottle. For sightseeing opt for non peak hours if it is available.

What's important is what you want from the experience, if you're at a point in your life where you're struggling right now.

I guess if you dont study and don't live alone and have some money you can travel.

My boyfriend is a great example of someone who lives frugally and saves his money well while still managing to eat healthy and occasionally travel (staying in hostiles or with people he met on previous travels).

But idk how he does it so I can't answer.

Get a well paying job. I've travelled my whole 20s. Also been earning 6 figures since 23 years old.

I always read this about taking health for granted , never applied it to myself, ate like shit all my life, but maintained a healthy weight... Now I'm 4 days post heart attack at 29.

This is the 2nd time I've mentioned this today. I don't usually post much, just lurk in the background.

Woah, that's crazy. That's completely from lifestyle choices and not a genetic thing? That's so young. Hope you're doing ok.

I recently found out (when she came to visit) that my grandma has heart issues too.. It was actually a bunch of stuff that came together in a series of unfortunate events.

I work out consistently, play basketball weekly, but I eat like complete crap and I know it. I always have.. But my cholesterol isn't high.

Pretty much stress and genetics and a shit diet

Never had any heart related issues prior to last week lol

I'm 26, steady 140 my entire adolescent and adult life. Eat at least 3-4 pizzas a week. I don't work out, I'm worried.

Fuck, you were very active too... And the fact that it came out of nowhere makes it even more daunting. I'll be sure to get a bloodtest someone this year, thank you

I hope you'll recover back to normalcy as much and as fast as possible. Being in good health is part of the parcel in living rather than just existing.

Dude from what you say it sure seems that it's mostly a genetic thing. Of course eating like shit did not make you any good, but this is just really bad luck.

On taking changes i think the fact people don't is also a plus though, we aren't in some golden age anymore, if you take a chance and fall flat on your face, you wont ever recover from it unless you were born 1%

As someone who has 19 years, taking chances and not spending just don't work together

I feel like camping is both the cheapest AND the most enriching way to travel somewhere. Roadtrips all the way! Split all costs among as many friends as possible!

-Taking your loved ones...for granted

This is something I think a lot of people never really see coming until the time has passed by, but I would seriously encourage everyone to have that chat with their parents you’ve been putting off or ask their grandparents that question that’s been knawing in their mind. No matter how awkward it is, or uncomfortable it feels; it’s 100x better than never getting the chance to ask it at all.

-Being too afraid to take chances

This should be for every stage of life.

I’m really guilty of being to afraid to take chances :/ I’m semi introverted and sometimes it’s painful to throw yourself out there

Think about this, the pain of throwing yourself out there is temporary, while the outcome can be the opportunity of a lifetime. Wouldn't you take a punch for the chance to gain a friend for a lifetime, to get that girl you've been crushing on?

I can do it if forced, when I quit hanging around my old friend group I was able to pick up new friends from scratch that are really good friends now. Life’s to short to have regrets I just need to say screw it and throw myself out there more.

I'm 29 and haven't made any of the mistakes posted. No debt, no DUI's (never been drunk), zero tickets, eat healthy, exercise a lot, and never been above 14% body fat....but I am still afraid to take chances. I live the same mundane, but enjoyable life, every single fucken day.

I also live a mundane but enjoyable life, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

If you are living an enjoyable life every day, you're doing well! Fuck anyone who says otherwise :)

If it's enjoyable, you're doing it right.

On taking chances, it depends on what it is. E.g. my personal experience - thinking I'm not good/smart enough to do something or being too afraid of the unknown - I've wasted so many years. For others it may be a dream job/personal business (there are ways to reduce risks - through funding or trialling), or even taking a chance on someone.

Whenever you can, do something small that scares you a little (as long as it doesn't cause harm to you or anyone else e.g. dangerous activities without knowing what you're doing) and build your way up to taking a chance on something that matters to you.

your health for granted

This is too easy to do to yourself without realizing it. Your young full of energy and BAM one day you can be diagnosed with something debilitating. Nothing makes you feel like you've wasted your youth more than having to sit through it and watch everybody else enjoy theirs.

So... basically being young :p

it's important to start getting into the habit of saving now

Putting money into savings is really important. Especially if you can take advantage of a matching 401k at work. They say a person who starts putting 5% of their paycheck in at 25 for the rest of their life can beat a person who puts 10% at 35.

I had a job where I was basically living check to check, but could have gotten 5% matched. I didn't put anything in because I couldn't afford it. At the end of every year we got a contribution based on hours/sales/company performance partially in the form of a 401k contribution. When I transferred it to my name after getting a new job, it was worth 18k, but imagine if I had put 5% in and gotten a free 5% all those years.

edit: good article

This is exactly what i wanted to say, especially the top one. My dad recently died and I’m 25. I saw and spoke to him once or twice a week but that just about covers how your weeks gone, what you’ve been going, etc. What i really wanted to do was go to the pub for a drink and have a real chat, let him tell me about his childhood, tell him about more minor issues i might be facing, etc. Anyway, he buried his head in the sand about a health issue he thought nothing of and now he’s gone. Its an expensive lesson for my family to learn but i encourage everyone to learn from our mistakes.

I have a little saying I use daily, "satisfaction, not distraction". Helps me to not just sit inside and play games until I go to bed.

That second point though!! I’m 23 and the only money I spend is on travel. (Not counting food and stuff.) I do it because right now is the optimal time for it. I can travel cheap, I get student discounts, I can put junk into my body and it bounces back, and I get the experience. It’s very worth it! In the future, this is what I’ll be happy I did.

I'm 33, all grandparents gone and plenty of other family members are already dying like crazy.

It’s too bad that the chances I take are ones that put my health at risk.

What kind of chances would you recommend someone take at this age?

What in life will you remember and be elated about? What in life do you feel you will miss out on (moments that provide meaningful connection). They are the ones you will regret. It could be allowing yourself to believe in you enough to accomplish something (be it a personal challenge/a certain role - to make a difference/your calling), or a person (an SO or a child - providing your situation is somewhat stable).

I agree to an extent - My cousin got metastatic cancer and she's in her early 30s. It's given me an outlook on life that says enjoy your youth as much as you can... which is what I'm trying to do. Luckily, I'm 28, I have a decent job (still trying to get into grad school) and my husband makes good money. No kids. Let's travel and enjoy life as much as we fucking can.

You can use "* " at the beginning of the line to create a bulleted list, eg.:

  • abc
  • def
  • ghi

well put, i would like to drop this for you its a quote i cannot recall if i saw it in a movie or it was something in a book..., "when you are young you should make memories that will keep you warm in your old age."

-Being too afraid to take chances

I was that and boy do I regret it!

Your health.

One day we wake up and our body just isn't the same. One day we wake up and we're ill. One day we wake up and our limb won't stop spasming. One day we wake up and our skin has blistered and rashed. One day we wake up and our ears won't stop screaming. One day we wake up and our kidneys no longer work. One day we wake up, and we know.

My fathers currently on life support after suffering a massive heart attack Friday night.

Do. Not. Take. Loved. Ones. For. Granted.

I mean, ok, but a lot of this just isn't reasonable for a 20-something year old. I am by no means rich condoning irresponsibility at this age, but heck, if you're gonna be irresponsible, now is the time to do it and kinda get away with it.

What do you do when point 3 conflicts with point 1?

For example?

I'm in a situation where my SO was stationed in another state (Officer in AF) and I want to be with her but I don't want to lose out on time with my family, especially my mother who I am very close too.

On the other hand, I don't want to miss out on what life could offer by allowing fear to make my decisions.

Note: The reason I didn't follow her when she got stationed (months ago) is because I'm finishing up my college degree (only 2 weeks to go!)

Finish your degree, then follow your heart (whether you feel like you've dodged a bullet or live with deep regret, only time will tell whether you've made the right decision or not). Depending on where the other state is and the distance, ensure that if you do decide to move, that you will visit your family often and set aside an emergency fund. Not taking your loved ones for granted is making time and valuing the time you spend with them. Ask them questions (if you don't yet know all the stories to their lives), and if there are things (within your means) that you can help them with, tell them what you want them to know.

Buying vehicles they can barely afford. Not realizing that the really nice cars also usually have really high insurance rates. I saw this happen to some friends in my late teens/early 20's.

I have a friend that decided to go out and get a used Infinity g37 coupe because it looked cool. One day he starts asking me how much I pay for insurance on my car. I ask him why he’s curious and it turns out that he’s paying almost $300 a month on insurance ALONE. And his car payment is around $350 for a 5 year loan. He was paying almost $700 a month for a $20k car.

Edt: loan not a lease

Come to Toronto a 21 year old will be getting $300 a month on a corolla.

Yeah seriously 300/month for a young adult male is pretty normal for insurance. In Ontario at least.

When I switched insurance companies I was pleasantly surprised to see my premium fall from 300 to 240. Only went up to 260 with a brand new car that is 3x the value of my old one. I am part of a professional association that gets a group rate though. Honestly I feel lucky to be in the sub 300 range given my age.

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As a young adult male, I completely agree.

FYI did you know Manitoba has a single payer car insurance?

When you're 25 and have your G it shrinks dramatically.

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I think it might depend where you live. If you prepaid for the year, you're SOL until renewal. If you do month to month they may change it for you. Worth a shot! It's usually a decent savings. Worst case, let them know next year on renewal. If you graduated from some where you can also ask for the Alumni discount, or if you work at a large corp, they may have additional discounts.

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Hello, I'm a dumb friend, what is a 'G' and where do i get one?

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“Driving defensively” is usually not a good thing... what exactly do you mean by defensively?

driving defensively has never been anything other than a good thing

you drive on the basis that everyone around you is retarded and accomodate appropriately, like leaving a 2s gap between you and the car in front.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_driving

Ahh okay, I’ve always heard the term defensive driving used negatively, like people not letting people in when they’re merging, tailgating people etc. I call your kinda driving “passive driving,” in which I kinda just let people around me do their thing and mind my own business.

Think I might just have the wrong terminology.

Defensive Driving is always watching out for numero uno - yourself. If someone is going to merge, you give them space. If someone has their blinker on, let them in. If you know someone is going to run that red light but you have right of way, let them blaze through so you aren't in an accident, even if you had right of way to get in.

It's always being the bigger person and taking the short end of the stick when you can so people are safer.

It is completely fair.

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It has nothing to do with your driving record. It has everything to do with risk pools. Anecdotes don't mean shit - young girls tend to be worse drivers, but when young men get in accidents they are substantially more likely to end in deaths.

You are also spouting misinformation. Color of a vehicle hasn't affected insurance rates in many years.

Large populations mean more people to hit which means more risk.

I can keep picking apart your statement if you like. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't fair. The things that reduce pricing are not arbitrary, but are born out of statistics.

That said, I was commenting specifically on young males being charged more, not Ontarians. That the OP was talking about Ontario seemed incidental to me compared to the young male factor.

Holy sweet baby jesus. I pay around ~80 bucks a month for a chevy.

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You both have a Chevy, but that could be like $80 for an old Blazer and $300 for a newer Corvette

Nobody who owns a Corvette refers to it as my chevy

Cos they're busy pushing the chevy to the levy.

This thread is crazy. I pay $45/month for my Ford. I'm an early twenties male in Ohio.

You probably have much worse insurance that won't cover you 100% after you cause an 800k car wreck. In many of the high cost areas like Canada it's mandatory to have extensive coverage which costs a lot more

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Yea, I was driving an old 1999 truck worth virtually nothing and paid $300. When my parents got me a new car as a graduation present my insurance rates went up $2 a month.

Yeah it's because the car doesn't make a difference in risk. If your car is 5k or 30k it's basically the same value in a wreck where one guy ends up paralyzed and there's a 500k lawsuit

Oh damn, jeez. I've been paying ~$65 a month on my 03 dodge neon for like 6 years now

$85/m 22m 02 Toyota 4runner

BC chipping in, very normal.

Male in 30's I pay $110 a month on a paid off 2014 Ford truck. No tickets on record no accidents. That is best case scenario for this vehicle. My wife's car (worth 20k is $100 bucks a month).

ICBC needs to die and private insurance be brought in. Was paying a lot less in Alberta and the Yukon.

Yeah, I pay about $100/m on a 20 year old Honda and have have the max reduction.

Jesus! The most I've ever paid for insurance was like $80/month in my early 20's. I'm now in my early 30's and I pay $50. $300 is fucking INSANE!

Is it different for women or something?

It's about half

Yea one of my friends wanted a motorcycle, got quoted on insurance 700 or 800$ a month. Insane

Holy crap. Mine is $150 a month for me being a 23 year old male.

I pay 130 a month on an old Audi A8 here in Norway and I thought I had expensive insurance. That's pretty fucked.

Thats why most people stay under their parents insurance until they are like 25 or something

Pretty sure BC “wins” this one.

Pretty sure BC “wins” this one.

... is 174/month a good price for a young adult female? Also Ontario, though not in a large city.

Yep, I'm in Toronto and paid the full year, comes out to 190 a month with that discount. Down almost $100 from last year where I paid monthly..

as a 23 yr old male i was paying 75$ a month for a 2015 jeep wrangler sahara in NS. Ontario insurance rates are fuckd

200-250 pound a month is good in the UK, but you’re gonna need a black box with it and put your mum as a named driver to get it that low

I was paying 120/mo on insurance and 110/mo for the car ( 2010 civic). As soon as i turned 25, insurance went down to 54$/mo.

7 more payments on my car and she's mine ( 4 year finance)

i pay 250 a year for a VW polo ... (Italy)

dang; I'm under 25 and I pay ~$460 every 6 months in insurance for a two-year old non-luxury car in the southern US (would be closer to $600 without discounts but still...) depends on your providers. The highest quote I got was ~$1,400 for 6 months, which is still ~$233 per month. (comprehensive and collision)

Holy shit. I pay $1200 a year combined for my BMW 550i, my antique PV544, and my wife's XC60 T6 R-Design.

Woo-hoo! Thank God for being old and married in a cheap state!

Sounds like you live outside a major city too.

I'm 2002 I was 16 with my own car just north of Toronto, a ten year old 1992 Hyundai Elantra. I was paying $650 a month in insurance.

Yikes! I'm in my middle twenties and somehow pay only $100/month on my Mazda. Not an old one either..

Come to Brampton a 21 year old will be getting $400 a month on a corolla.

Same in New Jersey

I'm 18 in Manitoba, I have no idea what the insurance on my mustang would be but thankfully I have it insured under my stepdads name, keeps it at a nice $100 a month

Toronto got a 2014 mustang 21 years old without military discount $500 with its $210

I couldn't imagine having to pay that monthly, holy shit dude

24 and have an A3, paying 230 a month for insurance.

What the hell, I was paying 350$ a YEAR in montreal as an 18yo male on a 2000$ car 7 years ago. So maybe 500$ now with inflation. Currently paying about 750$ on a 2012 Mustang fully covered.

Far out. Surely it would be cheaper in the long run just to buy another car. Although my idea of a car is secondhand under 5k

I wish. The lowest I've been quoted so far is $430/mo.

Is that for PLPD or full coverage with collision, fire, theft, and 1 mil of liability?

In Alberta, I paid $185 a month at 20

I think the bare minimum.

I pay 1000 a year.

In the UK it can easily be over £4000 per year for an 18 year old.

Louisiana checking in a 21 year old on his own policy for that same corolla would probably be around 500

I live in New Jersey and pay about 150 a month, I’m floored when I hear what some of my other friends are paying

This was me three years ago when I bought my car lol. Kia Rio...

Wow i'm 22 and I pay 95 bucks for full coverage on my truck.

I'm paying $200 on a car I paid $400 for with liability in the US.

I've already way overpaid what the car is worth.

Well yeah, but that's like what... $10 in real money? (I keed! I keed!)

It's actually $233 in USD right now, in all seriousness.

I was going to comment this as well. I didn't start driving until my mid 20's, bought a Jetta, nothing fancy, my insurance with discounts at first was $295/month in Ontario. I know guys who were paying $700/month in their early 20's driving normal vehicles.

Ya but who needs a car in Toronto you have some of the best public transit in the country if not THE best.

/s

No I'm being serious have you lived outside of Toronto? Everywhere I've ever been has terrible public transit compared to Toronto I fucking love being able to catch a sub practically anywhere

Try travelling outside of this continent, like parts of Europe or Asia, for much needed perspective.

Oh I know how much better it is out there but good luck driving your car across the ocean man I'm talking about Toronto and by Canadian standards on top of this

I just renewed my insurance, premiums went up 4 dollars a month. Im around 30 yrs of age and have 3 vehicles under my name. 315 a month.

From Toronto, 24, decided to get a car. First quote was 450$.

I'm now sharing insurance under a family members name lol.

And it's a lease, so he doesn't even have a $20k car (minus depreciation) at the end.

But brah the pussy magnet man!

Even if it's a loan he doesn't have a 20k car at the end. Depending on the car it may only be worth half that by the time it's paid off.

(minus depreciation)

If it were a capital lease he would though :D

I just got a used 2014 q60 (same car as g37 but they changed the name) and am only paying 130 a month for insurance

Dude I just got a 2013 C250 coupe and I pay 160 for insurance. I think some people are just lazy and don't take the time to shop around or haggle for better deals. Or they have shitty driving habits lol a friend's of a friends is paying 600+ a month on some piece of shit SUV because of multiple repos and insurance claims.

That's true. I called around to like 5 different companies to get quotes. I told my parents how much I was paying and they ended up switching from the company they had been on for like 25+ years - they added a vehicle and still ended paying like a grand less per year lol, exact same coverage on every other vehicle.

Driving record is huge too, I don't have any accidents or tickets.

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Ah that sucks man. I reached out to Allstate, State Farm, Farmer's, Geico, and Progressive when I was shopping. Even my credit union has auto insurance options.

Hold are you and where do you live?

26, NJ. No accidents, no tickets. I was paying half of that on a 2009 Mazda3 but that was only liability. To be paying 300 a month on a g37 (which is a 2013 at the newest) OP's friend had to have accidents, tickets, or be younger than I am. Or live somewhere where car insurance is even more I guess but I'd have to imagine insurance in NJ is relatively expensive compared to other states

Is it true insurance drops after 25?

I'm 25 with a 2015 mustang v6 and pay 1.6k a year in insurance. No crashed or tickets.

I'm 27 and driving a v6 2014 Mustang. My insurance is $113. I had three speeding tickets in the past three years (got one this past weekend, seriously fuck that cop it was bullshit).

I also got rear-ended as well.

But yea we almost pay the same despite me having tickets. I think it's bullshit and still think it's too high. But the guy above saying he pays $300 a month for a used car? That's insane.

It depends on your insurance and driving record but in general yeah. May not be 25 exactly as I understand it.

Oh yeah. I had a brand new Mitsubishi Evo which was like $450 for 6 month policy where my buddies in their earlier 20s were near 2 to 3 times that!

At age 25 mine went up because I lost all my discounts: good grades, safe driver, etc. If I didn't have the discounts it would have gone down, but it almost evened out. Im paying $75/mo now vs $70/mo before

No offense but neither of these, yours or the other guy with the C250 sound that good. It must be location/age and all that jazz.. My wife and I paid around 150-160/month for a 2011 C300 and a 2011 E350 with a pretty good insurance plan. I traded in the E class for a ram truck in the fall and now only pay like 110/month for both! We are in our late 20s early 30s with good records and live in a rural area tho.

I got a 2018 Honda Civic Type R and am paying like 150-ish a month for insurance. I was surprised expecting to to be higher (for full coverage nonetheless).

That's not bad at all dude. The Type R is sick too.

I haven't looked at my Golf R yet.. getting her in a few weeks.

That’s another fun one! I couldn’t find a single one in the area when I was shopping for cars a couple months back 😞 that should be a very fun, and comfortable, ride! Congrats man!

I think that's pretty stinkin' high (for a civic, jk, lol I had to). I've had 3 different awd turbo sportcars that were never that high.

Bought a used 2013 Passat SE ($10k @ 2.85% APR) in superb condition 7 months ago and my full coverage insurance is $489 every six months. ($81.5/m). I’m reading these insurance rates of others and feeling a tad lucky.

Also: am mid-20’s male.

20m here. I got something similar to that with a 2014 used car I bought. And that's also including renters insurance, all from triple A. My salesman recommended me to an insurance salesman and he was able to get me the lowest quote I had ever seen.

Late 20s, just bought a Stinger GT2, insurance is $140/mo. Doesn't seem that bad.

I'm 35 (and female) and pay $357 a month in insurance on a 2014 Q50. But I just moved to Louisville, Kentucky and apparently car insurance is really fucking expensive here.

And you must have some issues with your driving record, or you didn't shop around and you're getting screwed. I have a few friends in Louisville in the 30-40 age range and they pay around $150 a month on cars in the same price range or nicer.

That's very high Like very high. Did you have any accidents or traffic tickets?

I've had a couple speeding tickets in the past 4 years but I had those when I lived in Seattle last week and I was paying $174 a month there.

They say you looked like Plies so you put diamonds in your mouth

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oo so it's not that bad.

And yeah my 50 bucks is also liability coverage. Which is mandatory here by law.

I think you read UK as US in the parent comment

Full coverage on my 2015 Sentra in Boston is $900 a year, with $500 deductible for 2 drivers. Thanks Geico.

A '93?? I could go out and get one of those for like $2,000 and spend $100 bucks a month to keep it running for 5 years at least.

I met a 21 year old kid recently that has a $1300/month car/insurance note on a brand new Charger.

I know a few military guys that are paying $1000+ a month car payments. They’re buying 50-60k trucks with no money down but they aren’t paying any other bills. It’s insane but if you can afford it for 5 years I guess go for it.

Doesn't actually seem like that bad of a deal. If you know you'll be in the service for the length of the loan then why not? especially yeah if you don't have to pay for food and rent which are some of the most expensive parts of a budget.

Question, are these guys that are on a base in the states, or are they deployed overseas and not even using the vehicle/family uses it? Also sidenote but why do people even get trucks unless they're a contractor? I have a few friends and know some people that got trucks and none of them have ever hauled or even really used the bed for something other than furniture. They get awful gas mileage too! like 15 mpg is terrible. /endrant

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^[5]

Imagine you're at a T-intersection trying to turn right and a car from behind pulls up alongside you to turn left. Now, a normal person would stop short so you could still see. But, these aren't normal people, these are shitty people. If you drive a truck, you're instantly immune to 99% of the shitty people.

I used to need a truck but, these days I don't even move furniture with it. But, this 2003 f-250 (gas, not diesel) with 200k miles on it that I bought back in 2010 for $4k just won't quit. And I'm not going to go out and buy a car when I have a perfectly fine vehicle already.

But, this 2003 f-250 (gas, not diesel)

I'm so sorry you have to deal with a 3/4 ton Gasser.

I've owned it since 2010 and it had 200k miles on it. The gas mileage sucks, and I do change the oil more often due to how old it is and how many miles are on it.

But, outside of that, the only problems I've had with that truck is the alternator went out back in 2012 and I had a misfire that was caused by a sparkplug in 2014. That's it. I might be paying more in gas but, I've barely spent $200 in repairs in almost 8 years.

That's what I was going for. A F-250 with the diesel gets about 17 in the city if you are nice on the loud pedal, and about 21 highway, while the gassers I've driven get about 10-13 in the city and 15-17 highway.

Not saying you got a bad truck, just have never considered a 3/4 ton gasser myself because of the gas mileage hit.

Rich parents?

What 21yo has a job that can afford that?

Unless she is a damn good hooker?

Probably has a decent job and lives with his parents

A decent job goes pretty damn far if you don't pay your living expenses.

I'm 21 and my jeep payment is 590, insurance is 270 and rent is 905. Zero help from my parents. Didnt go to college either, so no debt there. I'm a store manager. Work a ton of hours but the money is good.

How the hell is he paying that?

My mortgage payment, including tax and insurance, is $1,225.

Christ... I’m looking at $55/month for whatever the top tier insurance is, on site glass, collision, etc. That is obscene.

I have an 05 taurus, I was paying 68 a month in Florida...I moved to Michigan with state minimums is 130

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I'm 28 and that is what I pay with no accidents and only 1 ticket in my life from 2007.

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Just be glad you are not in Michigan, one of the guys I work with recently had an accident, his insurance went from 250 to almost 400.

The vehicle, person's age, the person's driving history, and where the person lives will all play a big role.

I'm 22/M and pay $130/mo for full coverage on an 06 Impreza wagon living in a suburb of Boston

I'm 27, have been driving almost 10 years, perfect record, and in lower mainland BC. I pay $215/month for insurance on a 2013 Dodge Grand Caravan.

Sigh.

Dang! I am lower mainland too and paid about $180 for a 2015 Honda civic. Same dealio, driving 10+ years, no accidents. We recently transferred insurance to my husband though who has his N....holy hell. Over $300 a month. Can't wait until he gets his full license.

CAD or USD?

CAD. But it's a pretty hefty hit. I have a buddy in Alberta who insures two vehicles for less than what I pay for one. BC has only a single insurance company, and they gouge us.

ICBC is the reason I don't own a car. I'll be moving back east soon, but the prices here are outright robbery. Real estate prices are bad enough, car insurance is a real kick in the nuts on top of it.

The cost of living here in general has always been pricy, but it's gotten down right out of hand. There's no way people with average incomes are going to be able to live here much longer.

Yeah. I moved to Vancouver in 2015 and rented a studio apartment downtown for $950, considered a steal at the time. I've had bed bugs (twice) and a leaky roof so my rent hasn't moved but I was looking around for similar places and it would be around $1300-1400. No. Fucking. Thanks. I'll be changing cities after the summer.

Well, downtown is going to stupid expensive for sure. But I'm about to leave Surrey where one bedroom apartments are going for $1300-$1400. I grew up here and the area was always a cheaper side compared to that around it.

Damn, that blows. Is that $215CAD at least? I got a quote for $190/month on a new GTI with the same coverage limits as on my Impreza

congrats on the gti! My 21yo insurance on a 17' gti is 190$ too

Everyone is posting what they pay, so ill jump on the bandwagon.

29 years old, paying $70 for full coverage on a brand new corolla. I live in the Midwest. No accidents, no tickets.

27/M. $1000 deductible. $250k/500k/250k coverage. '17 BRZ. $116/month. Also suburb of Boston. No accidents/tickets in last 8 years.

People always leave out deductibles and their coverage numbers in these threads which can swing the price up and down by a lot.

That's a good point. I have the same deductible and coverage as you

23/m with '15 Volvo v60 wagon paying $75/ month.

Yeah I have no clue who these folks are getting insurance through. I pay like $50 a month for full coverage on a new Infiniti and I have a terrible record of speeding tickets, am 29, and live in a pretty high-cost area.

I think a lot of it is age and location. Been insured since 16, no accidents. Almost 24 now with a $20000 car and pay right around $130/mo with me paying 6 months at a time. I am glad I'm only paying that as the first insurance company told me my fee was only $120...biweelkly. The lady on the phone didn't tell me it was biweekly and I got pissed after the 2nd bill came in that month. Yet somehow they have cheap and good renters insurance for $14/mo.

Depending on how much coverage you were getting, $14/month could actually be expensive for renter's. I'm 22 and just moving out from my mom's for the first time and for $30,000 in personal property, $500,000 in liability, $1,000 in medical, and a $500 deductable was roughly $11/month, maybe a bit less.

Obviously this all depends on where you live, amount of coverage, etc., but $14/month isn't necessarily super cheap for renter's.

Man I'm getting screwed then, the cheapest I could find for my area was 18/month for 20k coverage. I don't even live in a high crime area, or where natural disasters are even common.

I'm thinking the same thing. I pay 70 a month for full coverage on a brand new car.

Insurance cost varies widely based on location and driver history.

The type of car is important, yes, but the same car can be very different to insure state to state.

My brother in law got a teaching job right out of college paying about 40k a year, which is pretty decent considering how young he was with no experience. He had never lived on his own or had to pay his own bills really so he decided to get a new car after his was totaled in a recent hail storm a few years back. He decided to get a cadillac. Payments for the car alone were almost 500 a month. I have no idea how much insurance was. He also has the newest phone/ tech gadgets. Needless to say, he is always broke.

LOL my friend pays $620 for his Hond Accord Sport for insurance + $500 monthly finance for 3 years!

Oof. 620$ a month for a Honda? That sucks.

Welcome to Toronto & being an 18 year old with a 2017 car

Jesus Christ. I hope it’s a 18 month lease

He's financing a $34k car he just turned 19 6 days ago.

I hope he has an income to support it. Whoever approved that loan should be ashamed.

Yeah he's making ~34k yearly as an assistant manager at a Timmies branch But he got approved for the loan BEFORE he was an assistant manager, he was working part time sat and sundays only.

It's crazy I swear honda will approve ANYONE as long as you've got a co-sign

Well, that's the point of a co-sign.

Same with my friend. Turned 21 and bought a brand new Subaru wrx Sti.. $40k+ sports car. His entire monthly wage goes into car payments, gas, insurance and maintenance

Where I live as a male driver your insurance is about 540-640 a month for a toyota camry...

JFC. Where do you live?

A town right next to brampton ontario

Please everyone shop around for your car insurance when it’s up. The US makes it really hard to compare (really miss the U.K. for that!), but it is so worth it. I had quotes from $529 for 6 months all the way up to $1100 for 6 months! This was for the same exact coverages too. Do what’s best for you; loyalty is for suckers. I think it’s obvious which quote I went with!

And shopping around has the added effect of pushing all the prices down since companies have to compete to stay competitive.

Oh fuck me I wish I paid $300 on insurance. 21 y/o male here. 09 150k mileage car is costing me $300 a month and $550 a month for insurance. Car is $5,000 new and I’m paying $850 a month for 2 years.

You went to a buy here pay here?

I was forced to with no credit and no one to co-sign.

That’s pretty normal for a person without a driving record also known as a “new driver.” In Massachusetts having less than 6 years of driving record means you are a “new driver” therefore subjected to higher rates. I paid $240 for years before it went down to $200 like it made a difference lol. It also depends on where you live, cities that have a high crime rate be it theft or vandalism the insurance will be high. So hearing that someone is paying $300 for insurance is not unheard of here in mass. Even “experienced” drivers with points will find themselves paying that much. Moral of the story is; have a clean 6 year record and don’t rack up points also don’t judge a guy for having a high insurance rate sometimes that’s what full coverage costs.

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Why didn't you get a 5 year old truck or something

Forreal. I would never ever buy a new truck for work, I'll get the shittiest box that runs good if I'm working construction

Man, a buddy of mine just started a small contracting business and needed to trade in his SUV for a pickup. Instead of getting a decent shape used one, he dropped almost 60k on a brand new loaded model. Just foolish...

Foolish is an understatement.. Jeez

As much as I would like a brand new work truck to use on the farm I bought a 86 gmc one ton flat bed. Bought the truck for 1k but it came with a basically new reman motor, new trans/ clutch with less then 5k miles, and a bunch of new performance parts on it already but had bad stock heads. (Guy thought he blew the whole motor) So I added another 1400 bucks for some performance heads plus a few other odds and ends. Now I've got a 400hp truck that is mechanically new and have less then 3k in it and this truck will take farm work better then any 60 k new truck ever will.

Haha that's a steal! Good stuff

Yeah I'm stoked ill pick it Wednesday morning. Hell the flat bed is worth what I paid for the truck. The guy sunk so much money in it when the heads crapped out he parked it for a year and gave up on fixing it. His loss.lol

All it needs now is a muffler of some kind. I'm keeping the long tube headers but it's straight piped now and its so damn loud you can't even talk to someone in the cab.

Other then that its mechanically solid. And has a solid body, decent enough paint and a so so interior.

I guess our luck comes from someone's else inexperience huh? Haha And keep it straight piped, fuck it!

Yeah guess it sometimes works out like that but it's more like being at the right place at the right time. That how I found a garage kept 69 ford mustang with 2300 miles on it that was parked for 40 years but I lost out on that deal by 15 minutes and someone else got it before I could get the 1800 bucks out of a atm.

I would if I wasn't hauling around an allis Chalmers 185 tractor on 160 mile round trips. As it sits right now its so loud that it set off a car alarm driving through a parking lot and on the highway you have to shout to talk to someone in the cab. I love a loud exhaust but that's a little to loud.

A 69 mustang with 2300 miles? That's ridiculous! Who would sell something like that for that low? But I feel ya, loud exhaust is nice at the beginning but droning can be a little bit annoying if you daily drive it

I know right I couldn't believe it but the story I got was the guy went to the army after basic the bought the car and drove it for a few weeks. He parked it and then was shipped off to Vietnam and was killed. His parents held on the car and it sat untouched since he put it there.

Depending on what you're looking at, a 5 year old truck isn't necessarily a lot cheaper than a new one. Trucks tend to hold their value far longer than other types.

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never ever want to buy a car from a dealer that knows you need it RIGHT NOW.

that's probably where the extra $150 came from.

too late now, but in the future, walk away. you'd be better spending $150-200 renting a car for a week while you shop around

Thanks for the tip.

talk to somebody I bet you could write that shit off on your taxes

That is ridiculous.

Damn, that's what I pay for my Elise with a ticket on my record

I paid $110/mo for an 04 accord. Once I got my 05 elise, it went up to $155 (for both cars). Got the elise at 23 y/o. 1 Ticket also.

Jeez. I thought my $278 car payment was high with $100 for full coverage insurance. I'm also F/20

That’s about what mine was. Just made my last payment a week ago. Never want to do a payment again.

I finally hit a year in on my payments and sometimes I just regret it so so much. Half of the reason my payments are as high as they are is because they insisted on a cosigner which was my mom who had 560 yet my credit score was 670. I was pissed

I wanted an Infiniti G37 until I saw the insurance prices. It can wait for a few years.

It'll be hard to find an unmolested one in a few years. Same thing that happened to the G35's, they'll all be riced.

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I’m driving a 2016 premium mustang with a sports package. Cost $38k out the door. My insurance is $140/month with a ticket on my record. A Subaru wrx would have been twice as much to insure.

Insurance is weird. Their prices reflect the number of claims put on a model, among other things. It’s worth researching and getting quotes before you buy a car.

Im 20 living in NY paying 300 a month on a financed 2015 TLX, and 1200 every 6 months for insurance. Im working full time so the money isnt really a problem but does that sound like a good deal?

Made the same mistake buying a truck. Trucks are expensive

Damn I pay about 250 for my car per month. And my insurance is damn near 300 dollars too, because I had a wreck (flipped my car, I was sober btw) almost 3 years ago. No place I call will give me less than like 280. It's bs I dont know what to do tbh

Holy shit. In his 20s? We we're worried about a 180 payment with 150 insurance. Now I feel like I came out WAY ahead.

Yeah I got sick to my stomach just thinking about it when he told me. I hate to see people getting shafted like that but it’s not like he didn’t know what it would cost.

This was me 5 months ago! Car will be paid off next month. But I'm also not paying $300 a month for insurance tho, more like $100.

Got the car more than half off original msrp, so at least smart in depreciation regards buying a used luxury car.

My insurance on an 2013 Chevy impala was 425 a month. I was 19 at the time and my car payment was 270, so I get it. It was odd because I got rammed on insurance

LOL I had a friend who was a teen get the exact same car. Didn’t have the car after a year. Now I know why.

I was paying $300 a month for my first year of ownership. It's not that uncommon. The car payment is a bit stupid though.

He almost pays more in a month than I do in a year holy shit

That's me right here, except my mother trapped me in this.

I live in a really shitty area for car insurance so my Mazda 3 and my wife's hybrid is 225 a month and that's not really that great of coverage.

My son is about to graduate HS, and then he's off to basic training with the USAF. He's already talking about getting a brand new sports car by the end of this year. WTF!!! He's on my insurance right now, and I have to explain to him that my insurance went up by $200 per month just for having him on it, and with a shitty car, too. He has no idea what he's in for, but he won't listen to me, so I think this is just gonna be one of those hard lessons he has to learn for himself.

That is easily the most “I just graduated basic training” stereotype.

Every guy in my squad had new cars, new gaming systems, and were flat broke constantly.

Why do people do this. One of my cousins is making bank in Seattle and is living WELL within his means. My other cousin the same age has only had entry level retail jobs and just shipped off into the US Navy. Before he left, he blew his enlisting bonus (and probably even more) on a $30,000 brand new truck... why?? Why buy a depreciating asset that you literally won't even be able to use. It's so fucking dumb

When you never had money, and you suddenly come across a nice lump of money, you think you have a lot of money to splurge.

Exactly. And why do poor people splurge whenever they come into money? Because they have next to nothing. Nobody likes having nothing.

I'm not sure if that's exactly the reason why, but it's a possible explanation, I guess. I don't have enough data to make that conclusion. I've seen "poor" people get rich and stay rich, poor people who stay poor due to most of the things on this thread (overspending, having children, drugs, all of the above). However, I do agree that it's more expensive to be poor.

You'll see far less poor people becoming wealthy than remaining poor. Where you're born has a massive impact on where you'll go.

I, my mother, father, and most of my father's family have spent the large majority of our lives in poverty.

It is the reason. Trust me on this.

My whole family on both my mom and dad's side came to this country (US) with absolutely nothing, zilch, zero. My dad is the oldest brother of 11 siblings and my mom the 2nd youngest of 10. My paternal grandfather was huge on education and made it a priority for everyone to receive one when they got here--my dad (20 at the time) and my grandpa (in his 50s) were even enrolled in the same community college classes and every single aunt/uncle (besides my dad and oldest Aunt) got their Bachelor degree in something useful (mainly engineering or accounting). My Mom's side, on the other hand, when they arrived to the US, education was not priority. Most of them got jobs that made fast money; most of them now work paycheck to paycheck but all have "nice" cars.

I know this is all anectdotal, but the point of this comment is that education is the key to escaping poverty. Back then, I'm sure it was much more affordable to receive higher education, so I can see why nowadays there are huge flaws in our institution that keep the poor poor. But my family was dirt poor, lived in a refugee camp for almost 2 years where cigarettes were used as a form of currency and making and selling bread was how my grandma fed the family.

Tis a shame that not everyone has the opportunity (like back in the day) to truly achieve their dreams and provide for a better future for their young due to institutionalized racism and greed overall.

You are correct - education is key. Which is why people in poverty tend to remain in poverty - it's rather difficult to become educated when you're poor in America, unless you're cool with living the next 10-20 years under crushing debt.

I find that people going from one country to another tend to be more 'motivated' to fix their situation, than people that have simply lived in the same place their entire lives in poverty. Especially if that place is America. We're among the worst when it comes to things like this in the developed world.

When you go to another country, it seems as if you're more eager to prove yourself and take full advantage of that fresh start.

There's also a LOT of other factors, of course. Just from firsthand experience - anytime someone in my family comes into money, it disappears shockingly fast. (I try to not do that when I do have money, though.)

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I suspect in most cases the poverty came before the splurge.

most likely, yes. but splurging is the reason they will never ever get out of poverty again

I never suggested it's not at least part of the reason. It's hardly the whole of it, though. The fact is, capitalism is a game that requires some people to remain at the bottom.

Could more people reach middle or upper-class? Yes, if they had the know-how. But again, many don't and don't know how to get it.

And again, capitalism absolutely requires losers in order to support the winners.

It's worth noting that the folks selling to the else young soldiers do know better, and take advantage anyway.

But they probably game a support the troops bumper sticker, so it's all good.

Yeah I've seen this happen before. Couple of friends were tricked into buying expensive (about $3-5k) jewelry by financing it at 25% interest to "build credit". They could easily do that by being responsible with a credit card. When I found this out, I immediately convinced them to take it back. Luckily they listened to me.

What new truck only costs 30K?

I've had to tell guys before that they can't afford the car payments so either they sell the car and get a beater or I'll report them to the First Shirt since he'll find out eventually anyway.

Do commanders make sure their people try to stay financially solvent?

Sort of, during counseling evals and platoon briefings, but they don't really have any authority over how you spend your money.

They can't tell you how to spend your money but they can get you in serious trouble if you fail to pay on debts. They can also suggest steps to take so that you can unfuck yourself before anything bad happens

My first month on Bragg my motor sgt basically harrased me into not buying a car from one of those "we finance Joe" type of places. But you know fuck him (was what I was thinking at 20) and blew the transmission and engine together, thus totally screwing me with a judgement, etc.

Yes and it goes into deployment readiness & security clearance. You can lose your security clearance if you are in major debt/facing financial crisis as this is something the enemy can use against you. Also, you have enough to worry about when you’re deployed that bankruptcy, major loans, losing your car ect shouldn’t be one of them. You’ll be unfocused and worthless.

I had nothing but Tijuana. (Tijuana muster...5 minutes!) Nice thing is I could be flat broke in the military and have a place to sleep with 3 meals a day.

So true, every barracks across America has some SICK speakers in it, and the POV parking lots are exploding with new shiny monthly mistakes!

We lived near a town with a base with a school for the guys who had just got out of basic. The base was surrounded with car dealers and electronics places. I'd see these kids driving hot cars and trucks. Turns out, they had a deal to get the loan payments right out of the kid's checks.

BTW, the base was also surrounded by pawn shops and car pawn places, too. These kids didn't all pass Air Tech schools and would get transferred elsewhere.

Do be fair, a new gaming system is not that much. But cars are certainly a money sink, yes.

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You can say that... the first 2 years I partied in Tijuana as stated above as a stupid idiot. Then I hit the ship and was installing this thing called MS DOS 3.0 up to 6.0. I purchased some stock of the company after a West Pac. That was in 91. The stupid thing was selling to pay cash for my 1st house after I was out.

Stupidest isn't a word... ironic...

When you run out of arguments you attack their spelling

It's pretty relevant given the accusation though.

I don’t see any problem with “stupidest.” The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed.), for example, gives the forms as “stupid” … “stupider” … “stupidest.”

And this isn’t a peculiar Americanism. H. W. Fowler’s Dictionary of Modern English Usage also gives the correct forms as “stupid” … “stupider” … “stupidest.”

Fowler hints, though, at what might account for your teachers’ avoiding “est” in favor of “most” to form the superlative:

“Neglect or violation of established usage with comparatives & superlatives sometimes betrays ignorance, but more often reveals the repellent assumption that the writer is superior to conventions binding on the common herd.”

And “stupidest” does seem to be quite common in English usage. While the Oxford English Dictionary has no entry specifically for “stupidest,” I did find the word in several quotations cited within other entries, including these:

1828: Thomas Carlyle, in a letter, refers to “the simplest and stupidest man of his day.”

1842: Samuel Lover, in Handy Andy: A Tale of Irish Life (1842), writes, “She felt the pique which every pretty woman experiences who fancies her favours disregarded, and thought Andy the stupidest lout she ever came across.”

1871: Charles Gibbon, in the novel For Lack of Gold, writes, “This cursed frenzy makes me say and think the stupidest things.”

Just for the heck of it, I searched online in “The Proceedings of the Old Bailey, 1674-1913,” and found the word used in testimony in a theft case tried in May 1785. A prosecutor is quoted as saying, “I should be the stupidest man living, having property, to leave my house so unsafe.”

Hey retard,

I don’t see any problem with “stupidest.” The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed.), for example, gives the forms as “stupid” … “stupider” … “stupidest.”

And this isn’t a peculiar Americanism. H. W. Fowler’s Dictionary of Modern English Usage also gives the correct forms as “stupid” … “stupider” … “stupidest.”

Fowler hints, though, at what might account for your teachers’ avoiding “est” in favor of “most” to form the superlative:

“Neglect or violation of established usage with comparatives & superlatives sometimes betrays ignorance, but more often reveals the repellent assumption that the writer is superior to conventions binding on the common herd.”

And “stupidest” does seem to be quite common in English usage. While the Oxford English Dictionary has no entry specifically for “stupidest,” I did find the word in several quotations cited within other entries, including these:

1828: Thomas Carlyle, in a letter, refers to “the simplest and stupidest man of his day.”

1842: Samuel Lover, in Handy Andy: A Tale of Irish Life (1842), writes, “She felt the pique which every pretty woman experiences who fancies her favours disregarded, and thought Andy the stupidest lout she ever came across.”

1871: Charles Gibbon, in the novel For Lack of Gold, writes, “This cursed frenzy makes me say and think the stupidest things.”

Just for the heck of it, I searched online in “The Proceedings of the Old Bailey, 1674-1913,” and found the word used in testimony in a theft case tried in May 1785. A prosecutor is quoted as saying, “I should be the stupidest man living, having property, to leave my house so unsafe.”

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They are illegal in a lot of places, but aren't they up front about much of the contract terms? At least the interest rate anyway. Someone has to be pretty dense to not know a loan's interest rate of 18, 20, 30, 40%(!), for the most part anyway, right?

Maybe the person got tricked by legalese hiding grace periods or balloon payments. I dunno. I lived good while on AD, and for several years afterwards due to UI and the GI Bill.

I ate out often... ate really well at home... watched movies a lot. Bought lots of clothes. Nice computer, laptop... top shelf liquors... took lots of trips....

Didn't get suckered into craptastic loan contracts. Bargain searched for a lot of things. Didn't buy an excessive car....

Nearly every expense was all paid for. Used TSP. Low taxes. Free school. Free insurance. Housing/BAH. Uniforms and uniform allowance. Liberal leave policy.

Starting as an E-3, and I think after TSP and taxes I had roughly $1500 dollars to play with every month. That felt like plenty of money as a twenty something year old. Barely spent any money during initial training. Made a bunch of extra money on PCS and TDY. Then getting BAH once I hit E-4.

I just... even the friends that didn't get suckered into a shitty loan.... where the fuck did all that money go? Why are you eating ramen everyday?

Granted I was realistic with what I could afford, and didn't have didn't have tastes of the rich/famous... For my entire contract and several years afterwards, I lived damn well without keeping track of money. I just spent.

*EDIT - Can't forget BAS for food! TA + GI BILL + Vocrehab

My friends actually made fun of me because I bought an older truck in good shape for $3500 cash. Meanwhile I'm going out and doing shit while they're sitting in their dorm not driving their brand new car because they can't afford to.

Meanwhile I'm a 28 year old electrical engineer in a prestigious position, with a house, lovely SO and two kids, and I proudly drive my two door 1998 VW Polo to work each morning, with more rust on it than paint and 230k miles on the meter and counting. Rev that 1400cc engine up and take off with my 59 hp.

What can I say? It's a fucking awesome car. Never breaks down, never needs maintenance or services, plus it's comfy as fuck. To say it's cheap to drive is an understatement... I bought it for $700 6 years ago and could probably sell it for $500 today. I might upgrade to a bigger car in the $2000-$3000 range soon, just for the handyness of having 4 doors with the kids and all, but meh. It works.

Don't get me wrong, I love being thrifty but really you should be getting a newer car for your family's safety. Check into the safety standard "jump" years(years certain safety standards became mandatory). I know 2007 is one. I would never buy a car made before 2007. Buy accordingly. Your VW Polo probably was extremely safe for a 1998 car, but total shit compared to any piece of crap 2010 model. If you can afford it, which is sounds like you can, safety is way more important than having 10-20k in the bank. It can be the difference between everyone walking away without a scratch and one or more people having debilitating injuries that affect them for the rest of their lives.

An F750 hit me in my 2013 Corolla, and I walked out without a scratch. Nothing showed up on my X-Rays, and the most I got was some minor back pain for a few days.

Needless to say, that Corolla was completely destroyed. I'm definitely sold on Toyotas for life at this point and am glad I had a late model car.

Everything is a risk/cost compromise. I get this from a lot of people who don't get it's a floating scale.

I've never been in a car crash or even close during my 10 years of driving, I'm a good and careful driver. The roads I frequently drive on don't have a lot of high risk situations, and there's little traffic. "Yeah but what if you get in a car crash? You can't reduce that risk to zero." Yeah sure, that's true. But what if lightning strikes. What if you get suddenly shot in the face? What if a stray moose breaks down your door and takes your house down? If maximum safety is what you strive for, are you also spending every single penny on insurances rather than something unnecessary like a nice mobile phone? Do you wear a helmet when you're crossing the road? Where do you draw the line for "naw, that's overdoing it"?

I just wanna be clear though: I'm not attacking you specifically, just the argument itself, which I've heard many times, in car contexts specifically.

Also, the polo in question is my car mostly, for work commuting. We have a family car as well, which is a nice 2012 model. My kids spend time in the Polo mostly to and from daycare, which is just rural roads too.

I will just say that about 6 months ago I witnessed the worst car crash I've ever seen "live". A guy in a work truck plowed into a line of cars waiting for traffic get moving from a fresh green light. The guy must have been going at least 60mph and never so much as tapped his brakes. No one died but a toddler suffered a broken femur and his father will be feeling the results of his concussion for a long time. In the end 4 cars had to be towed away.

Point is, you can be the safest driver in the world but if the "other guy" isn't, sometimes there's absolutely nothing you can do. That's when you will want the safer car.*

*Now hypocritical me will hop into my 2003 Civic and drive my kid to school. I really am shopping for something newer this year though.

Also, in rural areas, large critters do not give a shit about how good a driver you are.

Rural roads actually see more fatal car crashes than urban areas.

I've never been in a car crash or even close during my 10 years of driving

Funny thing about car crashes, it only takes one.

I can't help but think you didn't read my post in its entirety. It only takes one of anything with a low risk happening and you're fucked. The question is, how likely is it that it's gonna happen, and what does it cost to reduce the risk? Are you as risk eliminating in all other aspects of your life? It's a bit hypocritical, that's all. Plus, it's not like I'm putting myself and my kids in a wood chipper and hoping for the best. It's just a rather normal car, and not long ago it was considered perfectly safe.

Oh no I did, and I think that your other examples are just strawmen because you don't want to think about buying another car.

The highest estimates of how many people are killed by lightning worldwide each year is about 20,000. This is 60 times less than are killed in car accidents JUST IN THE USA.

All your examples are things that happen to statistically very few people, and you're comparing it to the single most dangerous activity any normal person participates in on a daily basis. They're just not valid comparisons.

And yes the Polo was a perfectly safe car 20 years ago. It was NOT a perfectly safe car 5 years ago.

Really what it comes down to is what you're gaining for what you're risking. You would spend very little on a slightly newer car which would be orders of magnitude safer in the off chance you get in a bad wreck. Is that $5000 worth the risk to your family? It's not my place to say. But you are being purposely obtuse if you say that the risk is the same from being randomly targeted for murder vs getting in what would be a minor accident in a newer car (and may be a fatal accident in your car).

I paid for half of my first car with graduation money and made the $60/month payments on the rest with a weekend custodial job at 17. It was a jalopy that I wouldn't have trusted outside city limits, but it got me to and from school and work.

It was hilarious at the last place I looked before the dealer I bought it from how the salesman saw "teenage boy" and immediately assumed I wanted a fast muscle car to go joyriding in. He was visibly taken aback when I asked him questions about gas mileage and reliability.

Gotta be stunting

Pretty sure mustangs + F150s outnumber all other vehicles at Ft Gordon combined

Don't forget Challengers, everyone and their mother has one

And wranglers!

Its always the lame 4 door JKs too. I get that they just got a huge increase in income, but I have a lot more respect for a TJ/YJ, and a ton more respect for someone with a CJ.

Thanks buddy :)

What about someone with DJ? Most fun $500 vehicle I’ve ever had.

I have even nore respect for someone that buys a used honda!

jeeps are great investments, they hardly depreciate after the initial deflation

Everyone I seen with those new challengers or mustangs always drives like a jackass. Oh and I always see them parked at a gym

Well those people tend to work out. Out of all the bad things, that's not one of them.

Omfg. The Challengers. 😂😂 dude you're bringing back some memories!

I saw a lot of Nissan Altimas at Ft Gordon when I was stationed there.

Married to high school sweetheart in 3. 2. 1...

Well if it was Army it would be a stripper.

Or a fat townie.

Source: my sister is a fat townie that married a young soldier

Divorced in 3. 2. 1...

(hopefully not)

Nah they've been together for 15 years now

I’m a get a mustang with 40% APR what a deal!/s

This was one of the main reasons behind Elizabeth Warren's push to create the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. Every military base has a vulture circle of predatory car dealerships, payday loan places, furniture rental centers, and other predatory businesses that spring up around it. Kids with discretionary income for the first time in their lives are easy marks, but if it's not bad enough to be preying on soldiers, they can actually lose security clearances over delinquent debts, negatively impacting America's military readiness . Rent-A-Center may as well be owned by the Taliban!

I was a Drill Sergeant on Benning, don’t even get me started on the fucking predatory tactics people used to get money from the Privates.

Every cycle, we were required to set aside time for different people trying to sell shit. Every time I would tell the whole cycle “Here’s your opportunity to reveal if you’re fucking stupid or not by your choice to buy some family medieval crest that costs $200.”

It's insane how many payday loan offices there are on victory drive

Every military base has a vulture circle of predatory car dealerships, payday loan places, furniture rental centers, and other predatory businesses that spring up around it.

Yup. Steady paycheck backed by Uncle Sam with a recession proof job makes them easy targets. Also, age.

Should somebody that stupid really have a security clearance? Isn't that just natural selection at work?

He’s gonna get a Dodge Charger. Just you wait.

/r/justbootthings

My younger brother (17 at the time) got super excited about getting tattoos. Got one almost immediately when he turned 18. Has like 3 now and thinks he's invincible.

He's not.

"Can't wait to get that Dodge Charger dude!"

If he got a sports bike he could double up on the stereotype.

Is that why they call it basic training?

the barracks parking lot is a land of F-150's, mustangs and crotch rockets

And probably a very limited amount of used Camry's and Accords own by people who actually use their TSP.

Every time I drive on base I'm like wtf are these kids thinking. Then I realized I'm far too old for 32.

Lmao I know a kid in the navy not even 6 months out of basic buys a brand new camaro.

I am one of those people. After I got to my first command From Navy A School I bought a brand new 2016 Motorcycle for like 14k. And used a credit card to put a lot of money into it. It sucks. It truly does. I'll be paying for my mistake until I get out in 3 years. Never going to do it again. I think I've learned my lesson.

Even better one for you: Friend has been in the USAF for 5 years and is leaving in 1 year (signed a 6 year contract). Nicest guy I know, but he didn't do so hot on his ASVAB and is an MP.

He has a classic ford pickup truck, his wife has a $30,000 SUV (no kids), and they just bought a $250,000 house in Charleston last year. He wants to be a cop when he gets out, but his wife has never had a job in her life. I'm not sure how to tell him the average cop makes about $45,000 in Charleston. I cannot even BEGIN to imagine how much debt they are in.

I think you are missing some words there.

I most certainly was words.

Two of my friends went into basic training, both of them came out like this

It’s how we keep reenlistment rates high. Most gotta stay in to make minimum payments.

Particularly if they buy a Mustang?

Classic military move. A lot of the guys my brother finished basic with in Canada did that too lmao

Just wait till he gets a young wife who cheats on him during his first deployment. It's a tale as old as time.

Bonus: He stays with her, has kids, re-ups his contract, she cheats again, they divorce, he ends up a lifer.

It's totally gonna be a mustang or Camaro. Charger if he's African American

Yeah the air force dorm parking lots have the most expensive cars in them. Never fails.

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18 year old E-2's fresh out of Basic are the dumbest of the dumb.

A cold truth. If you are dumb enough to become a hired killer you might misappropriate your money.

Best way to go about it would probably be to have him pay his own insurance, just so he can see how much it can cost. I've been paying my insurance since I've started driving, and I've seen how crazy new car payments can get when you include the cost of insurance through friends and family.. Keeps me very far away from dealerships!

He's actually been paying most of the difference. He gives me $150 a month, and he thinks that's even a lot. He has no idea!! And this is on a 14 year old car, too. I think if he tried getting on his own insurance, he wouldn't be able to afford it. I'm right, right? lol. I feel like his own insurance would be waaaaaay more than $150 a month. I'd hate to be the "asshole dad" that took his car away during his last summer with his friends. I did show him how much registration cost on our new car. $600 for us vs. $40ish for him. That alone blew his mind.

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Damn that's some good knowledge right there. Respect. I suppose it would be better for him to learn this lesson now, rather than later. At least right now, I'll be able to bail him out if he gets stuck. Wait, no....that's not a good idea. Then he'll just learn to come crying to me whenever he's in financial crisis. Parenting is hard.

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Thank you. You've given me a lot to think about, actually. And you're 100% right: I want him to be able to support himself. Your dad sounds like he was a good, wise man. You sound like that too.

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To add onto this as a 24 year old who figured it out the hard way. Any fun gadgets he really wants in a new car, he can have added to something thats older. Gotta have that sweet bluetooth stereo with gps? Guess what, pay an extra 10k + for the new car, or pay $500 now with installation by a pro? Sick speakers to go with it? If you save and get it done at the same place just bump it up to $800. If its about it being a sport car, buy used and fix it up with the goodies. If its about it having to be only driven by him, its really not that important when he's not eating. Want leather seats that heat up? Do some googling and ill bet he can find shop that'll hook it up for him. Then hes just gotta look for broken down models in the same generation to take the parts from. Or just hold out until one with the seats comes up for sale. Because it will come up for sale.

At 20 i was driving a 16 year old xterra. Best truck ever. But i was upset about the radio not having bluetooth, so i had best buy install a $150 radio and it cost me $200 flat. Then when it got hit, i "upgraded" to a maxima in the same year. Had the heated leather seats, two toned interior i love, just had to do the same deal with the stereo. Sold that and leased a 2012 hyundai because i wanted steering wheel controls, better sound quality, and better gas mileage. The payment is $145 a month with my credit score in the 700s. Insurance with every discount possible is running me $155. And that was only for $9000. Now double it for a cheap new car, my payment would be $600 a month for all of it. Try for a decent sportscar? Lets say itll run 27k to make the numbers easy. Thats $900 a month. For that money i could have just upgraded the old nissan properly. But now ive got a pretty newer car. Not sure pretty was worth it.

Dude you sound like an awesome dad just because you care so much! I hope it work out for your son :)

I cannot stress enough how important it is to look with him at what he spends where and explain where he can cut costs, it’s so much better than just saying “you need to spend less money” like my father did, bank statements are great but I’ve found it better to write (yes by hand) what I spend and where monthly, also writing whatever I make at my job, that way I know where I can cheap out and still live while making the maximum money while still spending enough on what I want.

I'm not a dad yet. I'm just 25. Hell, I don't have someone to be with right now that'd I'd want to be a dad with!

But I do want to be a parent, sooner rather than later.

And there's a lot of good advice here. Thanks everyone.

Whole lotta /r/wholesomememes vibes goin' on up in 'err.

Can something be wholesome without it being a meme?

impossibru

One other thing to point out to him is that most people lose their security clearances because they get overextended on their financials.

My parents never sat down and had an honest and detailed conversation with me about how to write a budget for my first month on my own. It’s embarrassing but worthwhile.

I hope you get through to him somehow. I mean, ideally he'll have money for those 2 months or so that he's gone at basic since he won't be spending it on anything, but it still isn't much. When he gets to his duty station there are literally car lots right outside the gates waiting to prey on green, incoming personnel with huge car payments and interests rates at like 12%.

I've seen it. I was stationed at Fort Hood, Texas for a few years and saw it all the time when the new Privates came out of AIT and bought brand new Jeeps and Trucks, only for them to get them repossessed later because they couldn't afford the payments. And now you have 19 to 20 year old soldiers who have jacked up credit because they wanted a power wagon. Not worth it.

This is pretty common in Australia as well. Blowing delpoyment pay on a hot new car smh

Plus it makes any ticket or damage come out of his pocket on insurance immediately. At 19 I had a mini that i bought, payments were like 135 a month. Insurance started at 118. Inside of 8 months I gained 11 points and my insurance jumped to 540 a month, plus car payment. Couldn't say "hey dad, im short this month but i can give ya the standard as thats what I set aside..."

Yea, teaches yea to really be careful on a number of levels if he has to pay for it.

Good news, though, last ticket falls off in june!

Finances aren't something that schools teach, and it sounds like he has an immature idea of the cost of living. I agree that a financial crisis isn't something worth learning the hard way.

Even if he wont listen to you, I wouldn't give up trying to emphasize what a stupid purchase a new car would be. A depreciating asset that he will overpay buying brand new. That will also increase his insurance rate dramatically.

He probably only thinks he can afford it because he has very little expenses when living at home.

If he's really heavy set on getting a car, there are plenty of nice used ones that are 1/2 the price (1 or 2 years old barely driven). Either that or he could even lease a nice car for a bit, shouldn't take long for him to realize this shit ain't worth it.

I can't imagine... Lol

Thank god I'm sterile

Tell him to buy a car that is practical but also sporty if he wants to have a good time and not spend out the ass. My GTI is considered almost like a normal hatchback and is still an absolute riot to drive.

At 19 I bought a 2010 f150 and was paying about $200 a month for insurance. Later on I bought a house at 19, and a year later at 20 bought two 2014 cars and a 2012 Sierra, getting rid of the f150. I now pay 220 a month for insurance, with a 19mph over the limit speeding ticket and an at fault accident. It’s possible just need to find the right vehicles to insure with the right company. I only bought the third car because it saved me ~$65 a month on insurance

My parents let me make my own financial mistakes, and never really bailed me out. I always knew they wouldn't let it get to the point of me living on the streets, but I also knew I wasn't going to get bailed out, so had to own my mistakes and work my ass off to get out of any debt I'd gotten myself into.

I also distinctly remember being annoyed at my dad when I was younger because his response to me asking why he couldn't be "more like a mate to me" was "there's a time for me to be your dad and there's a time for me to be your mate - and now is the time for me to be your dad." I didn't understand it and resented it at the time, but I respect the stance immensely now.

Your boy sounds exactly like me a few years ago. All through university any money I got had to be spent, and soon after starting my career I had to have the best car I could physically afford. Luckily I always had enough coming in to keep going, but wasn't saving any money long-term.

Now I'm very different. Instead of just an urge to spend money I also have an equal and almost greater urge to save it and watch my balance increase. Unfortunately I think that it is all due to my fiancée's attitude rubbing off on me, and am not sure how you could teach someone the same lesson sooner, as it sounds he'll go through the same period I did before getting fed up of not having any money saved up.

The only possible other turning point for me may have been getting a stocks and shares ISA and putting £xxx each month into it and choosing how it's invested. It sort of turned the act of saving money into the type of hobby that I immediately throw money at, and transferred easily into other types of saving money (not spending it in the first place!), so maybe getting him involved in trickling money into a long-term type of plan would pique his interest enough to want to save more?

I would suggest doing what my parents did. My brothers and I wanted motorcycles and when we were going to get it we were on their insurance. They said they'd pay for car insurance but if we got a motorcycle we would have to pay for its own insurance. Motorcycle is kinda equal to high end sports car. It makes sense. You'll help pay to keep him mobile but if he goes excessive with it then he gets to pay for the absurd prices/ danger. Also cool story: I got one ticket in my CAR not on my motorcycle. My motorcycle insurance went from $5-600 a year to $1000 a year. Make sure he drives safe and legal.

You're trying your best. That is good in itself.

A lot of people have been saying a new car is more insurance. But there are actually a ton of cars out nowadays that have cheaper insurance the newer it is, because of the safety features. So it might not be the most unaffordable thing, a beater car won't save you from dying as much as a 2018 family car. I'm not sure how it translates to sports cars, but there are sporty and safe cars out there.

My parents threw me under the bus completely when I went to school AND could probably not bail me out. They only pay for my cell bill. But they're there for me in every other way. I couldn't thank them more because I am so much more responsible than my peers for it and I know I have worked for all my things. The first year I was kinda mad but we just didn't really talk about it after that because my finances became my business.

All the best to you and your son! Sounds like you'll make the right decision for you either way!

I don’t know your son or how he thinks. But as a 22 year old living with my fiancée and daughter. I absolutely hate having my parents bail me out. But I also know they will if I’m in trouble. Trust me when I say I do anything I can to not ask them for money. Just depends on the person.

When in doubt hit them with a wooden spoon, that's a freebie from the Indian school of parenting.

This sounds great, but as a young adult paying my own insurance I'm not sure how practical it really is. When I started driving I really liked the idea of my own policy because of independence (also my dad didn't want his premiums going up if I fucked up), but I was being quoted at nearly $400/month for my own insurance vs only a $180/month difference on my parents policy. Nobody liked it, but the reality is that a young person working a shitty job living alone has virtually no way to afford their own policy. The insurance companies assume kids will be on their parents insurance and charge accordingly. Not that a young person shouldn't pay for the expenses of having a car (they absolutely should), but insurance policies are not designed to be sold to 18 year old drivers.

No, insurance companies do not assume you're living in Mom's basement. They play the odds, as is the nature of insurance companies, and they know that young 20-somes, particularly dudes, drive wrong a lot of the time. You pay the penalty for your peer group.

why are your rates so high? i'm 22 male and pay about 120 a month for liability on a 2001 honda crv

edit: meant to reply to u/Izulude

Seems too high, I paid 60 a month for an 07 Honda civic when I was 23.

I had liability and I can see your car is a small SUV so that could be the difference.

I currently pay 170 (comprehensive since i have a loan) a month for a 2017 Subaru Outback (age 26) and I have 2 on fault accidents I believe. Pretty sure one is off the records but who knows!

There's so much that comes into play with insurance. I'm five years older, have a great driving record, and I've paid more on a new Miata than a YouTuber with a Lamborghini Gallardo who's very similar to my demographic, minus the city/state.

New car, very tame amounts of horsepower for the price range, easy to repair, versus a Lambo? Gotta love insurance..

There is a certain value in your writing that check each month.

Some have suggested we pay our taxes that way. Not auto deducted, but you write a check each month. That way, you pay more attention to what government is up to.

Yeah, ive had my own insurance since i was 17.. in 1997 in NJ it was 1700 a month for liability only old car. Definitely made me realize spending money on new was not smart

When I got my first car with my own insurance plan, I was 21 and it was 108 a month. On a 2006 Grand Prix, that was the cheapest I could get. A sports car at that age would have been downright stupid and cost me a fortune.

Liability or full? I don't understand how everyone seems to have power premiums then me and in my 12 years of driving I've only had one ticket. Mines 130 a month.

It's probably your location but you should shop around and see if you can get a better deal.

Geico full coverage wanted 350,which is more than my car payment so idk how they came up with that

All state- 150

State farm- 130

I did progressive and I get a message that says their underwriting doesnt allow them to offer me coverage or some shit. So I stay with state farm

Could be your state. Any state that's no-fault will fuck you in the ass. I got my license at 17 in Oklahoma, and my insurance for liability was only $70. I moved to Michigan and it jumped up to $180 for liability. Shits fucked, yo.

I looked at getting my own insurance plan at 19/male on a brand new WRX in Michigan (no fault, one of if not the most expensive state for insurance) and I got quotes around $12,000-$13,000 /yr lol

Mine currently is on a 12 Civic with full coverage and I pay 86, but back then it was a lot.

Eh when I was 22 I bought a Challenger R/T with comprehensive and collision plus extra liability and it was <$200/month. I had to shop around a lot (still with a major provider), some providers we’re quoting $350+ per month.

Just to add on, you are correct it will be way more than $150 a month. For reference I'm 19 and recently purchased a v8 muscle car and I pay $370 a month and I'm on my dads insurance. If I got insurance on my own I would be looking at $400 - $500 a month just for insurance.

There are insurance calculators you can lookup that would give you a rough estimate on what the payments would be. I would show this to your son so he can think long and hard about what he's getting himself into.

I'm on my own insurance, with a 2015 car bought used. I pay about $650 every six months, which saves me easily $150 plus for every billing period. I forget the exact amount it would have cost me to pay monthly, but it was over $100. I also believe I get a student discount (grad school) so that might be a contributing factor.

Show him how quickly a new car depreciates in the first four years. Buying a brand new car is never good, unless you are wealthy. If your car's cost is more than half your annual income, you are living a fantasy and it WILL catch up to you. That, along with student loans, and the insurance, and monthly living expenses, will absolutely cripple him. Let him make his own decision, but make sure he knows how crushing it will be for him to have all those expenses.

Just make sure he calls and get's a quote from an agent before buying the car.
Hate to find out after signing all the paperwork.

Have him call for insurance quotes on that car he wants (his own policy, of course). It's not just the car that factors in. It's credit, driving experience, driving history, and where you live as well. Source: work for an insurance company.

ETA: tell him that if he doesn't pay his insurance, and it lapses for even a day, there is a motor vehicles fine involved. Those aren't cheap.

For reference: when I was 18 I bought myself a certified pre owned Chevy Cruze. Insurance for that was $1400 every six months. Allstate claimed it was a “sport” car because it had a 1.4liter turbo.

I financed a 2007 Kia Spectra in 2017 when I was 19. My insurance was $330 a month for full coverage.

This was in Michigan, though.

He's graduating basic - stop buying him shit. That simple.

When he gets to his unit, everything basic is supplied. Roof over his head, uniforms on his back, food in his belly. No matter how bad he is with money from the start, he will be fine. Couple that with a low wage, and now he's having to learn budgeting.

I went completely on my own the day i shipped to boot camp, never a dime from my parents. That experience has helped me to be world's ahead of other people my age when it comes to finance and personal responsibility.

This was a few years ago but I was 22, had a spotless record until that year when I got two speeding tickets within a months span. Around the same time I sold my regular car and got a entry level luxury sports car (Infiniti G37S).

I was good, I got a raise that year at work and put $10,000 down to get a low interest rate and low payment. Problem was that at my age, gender, driving record and the car I bought I was basically uninsurable. Not even shitty budget insurance companies would cover me. I spent 2 weeks searching the internet until someone called me back and offered me insurance for $340 a month...

With usaa. An 18year old with a camarro SS will probably pay around $90 month for full coverage.

Made him do a auto quote so he can see how much it will be

Have him get a few quotes for the car he wants at the age he'll be (fudge the birth year) and then write out a budget with other expenses he'll have.

Sit down with him and look at the car he wants to get, and then go through auto insurance quotes online together so he can see just how obscene it is, especially as a guy under 30.

Once he gets to a duty station and decides on a vehicle, while he is active duty (I believe) he can actually get some paperwork from Jag that keeps registration prices down to somewhere around $40 regardless of the vehicle.. which makes sense because military moves quite a bit and registration in a new state every couple years would be a huge drain on finances. Just a nice little heads up for a way for your boy to save some money.

Totally behind you though, some tough love might be the way to go. Predatory lenders are all over military posts, which is crap, so make sure he’s aware and not fucked over.

Good luck to you and your son!

I dunno. My dad bought a newer step up in size car and his insurance went down because newer cars are considered safer.

So there are a lot of variables that go into how much you pay for insurance, and one of them IS the age of the car, but I found that insurance actually goes down with newer cars because they're considerably safer than older vehicles. Last month I was looking at replacing a 2005 vibe with a 2016 equinox and the insurance premiums were going to go down about 15% despite the vehicle being newer, bigger, and pricier.

Check out sayinsurance, paying 180$ for full coverage on a 2016 rogue lol

If you help him out with buying a car or making payments, tell him one of the requirements for continuing with that help is to do research into how much insurance is going to cost for the car he wants to buy. Sitting down by yourself and actually calculating that monthly cost will sober you up pretty quickly.

My parents made me pay my insurance since 16 when I got my license, on a 2007 Toyota Camry. Started at $270/month (CAD). After a couple claims, it went up rapidly to $550/month. On INSURANCE. On a CAMRY. I'm 19 now, and after switching companies a few times and recovering my credit score, it is at $130/month. Please show him this. He cant actually afford a new whip.

Stop paying his insurance, yo. It's time he grows up and realizes that choices have consequences.

Actually, getting him on his own policy can help him establish a relationship with his insurance company, which can help his rates after he's been with them for a few years and no tickets or claims. But it's not going to be cheap.

He also needs to know that most military members lose a lot of money to stupid tax and "friends." Tell him to save all of his pay and ONLY spend it on things he will find value in later in life like trips, experiences, and education.

You need to make him get a quote for getting his own insurance. So he can appreciate what you're doing for him. Having a disparity in what people think something is worth is bad for a relationship; one can easily be resentful for something that is actually in their favor.

I'm paying 96$ on a 1 year old car I just got and I ahve some speeding tickets and a totaled car in the last 5 years. Why is your price so high?

Man I just had to pay 400 for registration and plate on a car thats 20 years old and cost me 500

When my wife graduated high school and didn't go to college, her parents made her pay rent. (plus pay for her own car...) When she moved out a few years later, she got the rent as a starter fund, it had gone into a savings account. Same thing with her brother - he used his to help pay for a down payment on a smallish house for him and his bride.

When I got my first car (UK based) it was about 14 years old, a ford fiesta. My dad refused to have me on his insurance as he did a lot of driving for work. Can't remember the exact amount but it was around £3k for the year insurance. Car only cost me £600 to buy outright

I work as an insurance agent, I highly recommend you have him call around and get quotes for insurance with just the year/make/model of his dream car. The quotes will be ballpark, and if he is still living with yall, he will have to list yall as excluded or covered drivers, which may impact his rates, for quotation purposes it is best if you and your spouse aren't listed or are only listed as excluded drivers, so he can see how expensive it is. Make sure he tells them he wants "full coverage," the agent will know what that means.

Then, when he gets told it'll cost $400/mo for him with a new sports car, he'll chill his roll (hopefully).

I was an irresponsible teen who kept rear ending people while my dad paid for my car and car insurance. HANDS DOWN THE BEST THING HE EVER DID AS A DAD WAS TAKE MY CAR AWAY. I cried and yelled and was very upset. But I've never crashed a car since and have very much learned the cost of car maintenance/insurance etc.

That's crazy. I bought a motorcycle when I was 20(not long ago) and the insurance was like 250 for a whole year, full coverage with progressive. First vehicle, no driving history or anything. I can't imagine having to pay my yearly payment every month.

Make him get some insurance quote on whatever sports car he wants. Also do some calculations on the cost of gas. Semi-annual oil changes. Inspections. If he's buying new, talk about depreciation. Literally piss away 18% of the car's value in the first year.

Get him on USAA insurance now that he qualifies. It will be the cheapest he or you can get anywhere.

You can't control him, but you can encourage him in the right direction. I've personally seen so many members buy into ridiculous "deals" dealers give out for military. It's the "everybody's doing it" mentality and he'll be in debt for a long time just to be kewl. Especially early on, you're at the lowest rank and not making a lot of money.

It will go up but not as much as you think. A 14 year old car is way way way less safe than a new car, and the insurance companies hedge their bets against medical claims.

I bought myself a nice new car a couple years ago. Paid 1/3 upfront cash and loaned the remaining 22k for 3 years(as short as possible) im paying 500 a month for that plus another 200 for insurance. I know my insurance is out to lunch because where i live but run those numbers by him

Insurance agent here. Insurance on his own will be much higher. At least until he’s in his mid 20s anyway

Insurance guy here, would recommend keeping him on your policy, give it to him as a short term ish type loan. Know a buddy of mine that has to pay a huge amount on his policy because he is by himself, plus with a bundle, he can save 30% off in theory by being on a policy with a homeowners discount

Tell him to buy a 10-15 year old, nicely maintained ‘cool car’ and learn how to maintain and fix it. Insurance will be lower and most bases have a ‘Rec shop’ where you can borrow tools and work on your car. $10-15k limit. Do an mechanic inspection first.

Better than wasting 30k-40k on a brand new car and paying insurance on it.

There are tons of cars made in the 80s and 90s of all makes and models that can be had for around 4k for a reliable one and 2k for a cheap beater to hoon around in. I have a '15 sports car right now but sometimes I still miss the raw driving experience of my '89 Nissan...

True, just a balance of safety vs. economy. Most kids mom’s would probably like them to have airbags and ABS...

When I was 16 (Decades ago) my parents said I could get my license if I paid the extra insurance premium. That was $250 a year when the minimum wage was $1/hr. Like I was going to pay that by delivering papers and caddying. I had better things to do with my money.

(I got my license by accident - traded a moped license for a motorcycle license and they accidentally gave me car&motorcycle instead. I have never taken a driving test except the motorbike one.)

just do what my gran did with my mom, charge 'em full price but give it back later as graduation/housewarming gift.

There are literally dozens of car lots around military bases that cater exactly to people like your son. There’s like a Whole industry

*Industries.

So many fucking predatory businesses around military bases. Cars are just the easiest to recognize.

Like what else? I'm not from the US so I'm not too sure

Among the shady used car dealers you’ll find rent to own furniture stores, payday/title loan and other predatory lenders everywhere as well. Then you usually have the over priced tattoo shops, electronics/cell phone places, strip clubs, over priced bars.

My first night out of basic I watched a guy I went with drop $1500 on a new huge screen TV and game console. I really tried my best to talk him out of it since he wasn’t going to be able to take the TV switch him long term. Guy wasn’t hearing any of it.

Talking to other people here the interest rates and insurance premiums on their cars are insane. I have no clue how any of em afford it.

I have no clue how any of em afford it.

Could be richer than you think, could be massively in debt. Really anyone's guess...

The worst part is some of those shady dealers are prior servicemembers.

This is one of the biggest mistakes junior enlisted folks make. They think they need a car, and these dealers make it very easy to get a car. Don’t be surprised if your son spends 15000 at 22% for a 8000 used sports car that runs for 6 months.

My cousin got stationed in Japan and bought a Nisan skyline painted like the one in fast and the furious. This car had a shit ton of miles on it and was just being traded from airman to airman sense the movie came out in 2002 or something.

And that's fine. Probably paid about what the car is worth, and then sold it.

There is a HUGE business in selling crappy cars to junior enlisted, who sign really bad contracts, and get stuck with crap.
Be very wary of any "dealership" that advertises "All you need is your LES" (Leave and Earning statement... a paystub. ) With your LES, they will quickly calculate how much they can fleece you for.

car lots, strip clubs, tattoo parlors.

And jewelers to sell you that $8,000 engagement ring, too. Only 29.9% interest!

Oh definitely propose to your girlfriend. I mean it’ll probably be the one and you’ll be able to take her with you to your next assignment

When I was in the service friends were able to purchase (basically steal) nearly used cars from other enlistees who were deploying or being stationed elsewhere. It's definitely considered not cool by the other enlistees.

NOOO! The way I learned about cars being expensive is not just basing it off MSRP. Show him how much money will be spent on gas, maintenance, wheels, something breaks on this bmw, its 2000, something breaks on this toyota, oh wow only 20!

Ooooooooh I didn't even think of maintenance costs.

Reliability also factors in. Toyotas are known for being reliable, whereas Chryslers..... not so much. If you are looking at a used vehicle, it's smart to look on forums and find what are the common issues with that car, and how costly they are. For instance, a used Focus might look like a good deal, but lately Ford has had issues with transmissions, and that is not a cheap fix, so It'd be best to spend a couple thousands more on a different car than spend dollars to pick up pennies.

I've got a Toyota Camry I've maybe put $1000 into maintenance in the last 5 years and it's a 2004 these things are tough as hell.

My auto tech prof used to have a beat up 90's honda that he got for 300 bucks because it wasn't running. He got it running in the driveway of the seller, and put maybe 500 into it over the next ten years.

Those Japanese guys know a thing or two.

Early 2001s Hondas and Toyotas are legenday in their reliability, cost of maintenance, and mileage. If your son really wants a car, that's probably the way to go. It's cool to be the guy who has the sick car, but for a 19 year old on a E-2's salary, it's almost dangerous.

I agree. My first car graduating from high school wss my dads 2001 Honda accord. Went nearly 300k miles before the transmission went out

My ‘01 accord only got to 110,000 before the transmission blew, anecdotes are anecdotes but it’s not like Japanese = flawless. Got it used though, it was in good shape according to the mechanic I had look it over but who knows.

This is true. Hondas/Acuras from that era had notoriously shitty automatic transmissions. Particularly the Accord, TL, Odyssey. I love Honda but they’ve had their flawed vehicles.

"only 110,000"

Those early 2000’s accords commonly had issues with the automatic transmissions

This is one reason I love my little VW Polo. It's a 2002 model, about the time where all the mechanical stuff was pretty similar to modern cars, but without the electronic wizardry. This makes it about as reliable as a more recent car, but super easy and cheap to fix anything that goes wrong; I've even done a fair bit myself. Quite frankly comparing maintenance costs to my dad's late model Audi saloon is scary.

That, more than anything else, has taught me what to look for in a reasonable car. Sure, I'd love to trick out a brand new van for road tripping. But I could probably do 90% of that just by converting an older Japanese MPV for a fraction of the cost. If your son is anything like me, it's all about the hands-on.

So no need to drop him in at the deep end as others have said. Just let him pick up bit by bit and independence will come before you know it.

I had to get new brake pads, rotors, power steering sensor, tires and transmission fluid change in a year, I drive a nice reliable Nissan, cost me less than $1500 for all of that. If I had the car I want it being a raptor or bmw, shieeet would’ve gave my arm away to pay that off lol gas though. Newer sports cars take higher octane. Idk what state you live but I’m in jersey so that’s around 3.10 per gallon right now for “middle” level gas, and sports cars aren’t known for MPG so RIP Wallet every week

gas, maintenance

Buy an EV and these become negligible

20 bucks my was on anything unless you are willing to fix it yourself. I have a Toyota and when there wasn't something I felt comfortable fixing, it can still run a lot of money at a shop to fix.

That is true but sure as hell beats what you’ll pay for a luxury brand lol I want the 4Runner TRD Pro so bad

There is an 05 land cruiser with 115k miles for like 16k that I would love to buy as a second car.

I just saw one with 130K in NY for 17k! It looks brand new still

Everything else aside take a defensive driving course and have your son take it too, the cost of the course will be more than made up for by the reduction in insurance premiums for 3 years.

That is a great idea! Not just for him but for me. Shit, I'll have the wife do it, too. Discounts for everyone!

It's definitely a good idea to take a course anyway, but check with your agent about discounts. Some states don't offer any at all and some, only certain agencies might offer a discount. I regularly take a defensive driving course, but there are no discounts to be had where I live. Great skills to learn, but you might not get a discount if you do. Take it for the education, if you get a discount it's a bonus.

While I definitely agree on taking a defensive driving course, it doesn't give you a discount on premiums everywhere. Both in Oregon and Washington it does nothing to affect your premiums. I have lived in both and regularly take a defensive driving course with certificate of completion. I have checked while living in both states and have called multiple insurance companies to check, none of them offer any type of discount for it.
Take it anyway because it's a good value and teaches you skills that can prevent accidents and save lives, but if you're doing it for premium discounts don't count on it, YMMV.

Airman here. So in BMT the MTIs will tell him how fucking stupid it is to buy a car like that. But if he doesn’t listen to them hopefully he’ll listen to me when I say SAVE YOUR MONEY AND BUY A CHEAP CAR. CAR DEALERS PREY ON YOUNG AIRMAN. I know a guy who bought a car with 27% INTEREST ON HIS PAYMENTS. I cringe at the thought alone. Show this message to your kid if you’d like. He’ll be an absolute laughing stock in his squadron, wether it be his fellow Airman, or his own MTLs and instructors. And you know why? Because he has been warned.

Other than that if he has any questions about the AF gimme a shout.

I don't know how long he's had his license but after a year all the chores that come with driving should be passed onto him, registration, license, gas, insurance (putting it to his name will make increase) and he should be aware. Unless he's still driving your car this should be his responsibility now.

He's had it for about 2 years now. I know it should be his responsibility, I just feel bad. He already thinks the $150 is outrageous. But maybe you're right, it's probably best to just rip the band-aid off all at once, huh.

Well I mean if he's still in school I can see how it's not easy to throw it on him but I mean if he's home and no rent, working weekends he should be able to cover it, maybe let him insurance shop so it gives him a sense of how expensive owning a car can be and at least whatever he pays he'll know he did his homework and he's getting the best price out there.

But ya 2 years is long enough to be getting your insurance covered, I imagine you probably were nice enough to hook him up with his first car from the sound of it?

yep, he did not pay a single cent for that car. the more I read everyone's comments, the more I'm thinking he needs to do this on his own, soon. plus it'll save me money, too. that's a nice benefit.

Everything I have read is excellent advise. Balance that with your own personal evaluation of the situation. If it will put him in a bind and stress him out, strain your relationship with him, maybe don't do any of this just yet. Feel it out, add up how much he's making at his job, and ask yourself do you really want to rob him of what little money he has. He might think well can't you just help me out a little bit right now considering my financial situation and age? I would definitely want my kids to learn this important lesson, but I would not just drop a bomb on them after receiving advice from the internet, just consider your personal situation and how it will impact all parties.

Ya as this is PF for sure you're saving money but in this scenario it's for the benefit of teaching your son PF.

Your sone is right on track for the USAF lifestyle. Now get ready for that random call saying he’s about to marry some chick he met 5 months ago in tech school. But seriously, it’s going to be hard lesson to learn, but all you can do is try to talk some reason. At the end of the day though, he has to be able to pick himself up.

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Shopping for car insurance may include an inquiry into ones credit report, thus lowering the score a little bit, just keep that in mind. It's kind of a grey area. https://www.doughroller.net/insurance/auto-insurance-quote-hurt-credit-score/

sometimes lessons have to be learned the hard way. put him on his own insurance and hopefully he sees the errors in his way.

I’m retiring after 20 in a week. The Air Force is great at offering tools to young troops to help them with their finances. I mean they have to listen though. There are a ton of amazing cars in the dorm parking lot that never move because the kid can’t afford insurance and gas. Plus, if he ends up in a career field that deploys often he could be not driving the car anyway. Good luck to your kid! If you don’t mind answering does he know his job yet? If he hasn’t picked yet convince him to go with a 1A flying job. He won’t regret it! Also, don’t listen to the recruiters he doesn’t want to be security forces.

Congrats on your retirement. You made it much longer than I

Jesus that is high! Where on earth do you live that it is costing you $200/month to add a single person to your insurance?!

AZ. And I should clarify, I guess (my bad): that was for adding him and his car. Also, because of his age and driving experience, I had to get comprehensive coverage, too.

Just be lucky you don’t live in Michigan. Here in the lovely Great Lake State, where yours went up $200, it would go up about $350-400

And no, I’m not exaggerating.

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It’s brutal. Average insurance premiums are $2400/year

So comprehensive coverage like OP said would definitely be on the higher end

Since our insurance is about 56% higher than AZ, the direct increase would be $312

But then what type of insurance laws or caveats does MI have that AZ doesn’t that would probably push it to about $350

Can only imagine what a nice car with a young driver would be

That's exactly why I started buying cheaper cars, and dropped comprehensive. A couple accidents and stuff, suddenly comprehensive is approaching the cost of the vehicle, not worth it! Buying cheap cars and running them until they die while maintaining them well is the way to go financially if you ask me!

Ahhh, that explains it then.

America? That’s really normal for any teenager, and it won’t go down for about 5 years, and then it goes down a lot again after 10.

I assumed that, I meant specifically where in the US. When I was 16 it was only costing about $80 for my parents to add me, and by the time I was 18 it had droppped down to only $25/month to add me to her plan. Now, I didnt have my own car, so that was probably part of it, but I think regional variation has to be at issue too, given the size of the desparity.

Not having your own car is not “probably part of it”, it is “absolutely all of it.” I would have thought that to be obvious.

Some insurance companies give discounts based on GPA because statistically people with good GPAs are lower risk.

Yeah, I had all the discounts. It was still 180 as a 16 year old driving an 11 year old car.

I can't even fathom paying that much. I'm 22, on my own, and have full coverage low deductibles on a 2015 WRX for $96/mo. I did the defensive driving course and that's it.

Man, I am paying $60 more than that for a crosstrek, AND I am older than you!!!! Damn insurance prices.

I just spent a week in Norfolk, VA for work. SO MANY young service members driving like total assholes in their Mustangs, Chargers and Corvettes. Not fun.

My dude. You need to get him on his own policy. My 18 year old son was in a minor accident and my rates went through the roof. I talked to my insurance agent and was told that it was a good thing it was a minor no injury accident. If it was something major, with him being on my insurance policy I am liable for everything. They could sue me for damages and that could lead to them going after my house and everything I own.

Get him on his own policy and that all goes away (as long as he's 18). If he gets into a bad accident they can't go after you because nothing of his is in your name. Scared me enough that I got my son a policy and since he works, he wanted to pay for it. He felt bad about my rates going up. I offered to help pay for half his bill but he wanted to do it on his own.

Look I'm all for helping my kids out but I'm not losing my damn house to do it. Be smart and protect yourself and your assets.

There are some older cars that are fairly nice that can be had for pretty cheap, especially if you get something simple enough to work on by yourself instead of paying a mechanic.

Sit down with him and show him the numbers. Lay out what interest, gas, insurance, and maintenance is likely to cost. Point out that the people at the car lot telling him he can afford it stand to profit greatly from convincing him to make a mistake.

Tell his recruiter. S/he’ll probably be able to tell him enough horror stories about people doing that to scare him straight. 3/4 of his income will go to that car straight out of basic. If he’s adamant about it when he leaves for basic you can always get word to his MTI. This would be slightly cruel since he would be mercilessly railed on for wanting to make such a bad financial decision, but his MTI would have a serious talk with (at) him too.

I've also seen too often people buy a new car, get deployed overseas and the car just depreciates in a garage not getting any use.

That's about as boot as it gets.

Please don't let him do this. There are already too many airmen that have brand new Camaros/Mustangs/Challengers that they can't afford. They usually end up with something like 26% interest on their loan too.

Mustang incoming!

...is it a Dodge Charger?

Also if he is deployed abroad or across country he won’t even be able to use it

Super late to the party but I have a story perfect for this scenario. So when I entered basic training I was 22 years old. I worked at local Walgreens while going to community college at the time. My college was already paid for and I found myself making a lot more then I was spending so I would usually pocket around half of my paycheck over the course of 4 years. So when I entered boot camp I had around 10k saved up. So lets zoom past bootcamp. I entered techschool with the mindset that I should finally buy something for myself and I felt like I earned it. I found a Mustang GT around 18k and I talked them down to 15k and I just financed the rest of it over 2 years. Easy peeasy. HOWEVER, my roommate at the time became extrememly envious and unbeknown to me was talking to his mom about it. Well SHE decided as a great birthday present was to buy him a brand new, off the lot, 2014 dodge challenger and only put 2k down on it, leaving him the 30k to pay over the next 5 years. What the fuck? He loved the car but slowly realized over the next few years what financial trouble his mom put him into.

Yeah, but that new car goin look tigh tit tit tit tit tigh ee urrr tight.

Graduated boot camp a little while ago and just got stationed at my unit and the parking lot is full of sports cars and jeeps lol. Most of these military personnel have only maybe a phone bill and that’s it , so they go out and spend all there monthly income on a vehicle .

retired Army here, I saw new guys buying hot cars at their first duty post all the time, most get repo'ed in about 6 months, BUT by then the soldier also added a $3.000 sound system hot rims maybe a cool paint job ..........and they loose it all

Sit him down and give him a monthly breakdown for insurance/payment/gas/upkeep "bills" right now for both the current car and the fantasy car. Have him deduct it from his paycheck each month to see the difference with the take home pay for each.

Convince him to buy a motorcycle for $5k instead.

An extra $200, holy shit, what kind of insurance are you getting? This is ludicrous, when I was 18 I was only paying $25 a month, sure that was only for 3rd party but if it was full insurance it would only be like $50 a month max.

I wanted an Evo X for quite a while. pre-27 my insurance rate was $300 a month for basically liability. Hit 27 and that payment dropped to $105 for full coverage.

In your son's defense, insurance rates are fucking retarded. I didn't suddenly become more responsible and mature when I hit 27.

When I wanted to buy my first car my dad had me open a savings account and deposit a car payment every month for a few months. He said it would help me with a downpayment and get me used to living with on a smaller budget. After two months I realized that the car I wanted to buy put too much of a hole in my take home. I cut my car buying budget in half.

Edit: I also had to star filling the family car I was driving with gas and not just putting in what I needed right then.

Ehh he'll be In The military. There are plenty of military only finacial institutions that will give him low rates.

Honestly he will only learn when he has to finally deal with it.

Tell your son to take out a lease instead of a purchase. That way if he does get deployed, he can simply break his lease and return the car, no harm no foul and no more payments... Little known trick for military personnel.

Please tell him to watch out for women who want that BAH too...

Have him read this:

https://the-military-guide.com/

Fuck your insurance. I pay 200 a quarter for full cover glass tow trucks hotels etc on 4000 car

I know lots of people who did this, and fell into some stupid debt. I did the same thing, though not to the extremes some do. Tell him to save up and buy something older with cash depending on where he gets stationed. A first gen 350z/miata, etc are still cool, and he'll learn how to to maintain and take care of something older without burying himself under a mountain of debt.

Please tell him not to. He will want to be one of the boys and get a hot car because all of his friends will be. But the banks are really predatory lenders and most cant afford it. Source: I work within the reposession industry.

Don't cosign for him. If he's going to make the mistake after you telling him not to do it, don't ruin your credit for him.

And if by some miracle he pays it off, accept it and say you were wrong.

Been in the service for close to a decade and never owned a car due to being stationed overseas (public transportation was more than adequate). He's young, convince him to see the world and live in places like Japan and Europe.

When he does get a car make sure it's not at his tech school. I've seen kids get screwed into 19% APR with new cars. The dealers know they are military and will try to take advantage of this. The MTLs in tech school will warn the kids but that doesn't stop some.

Tried to join the Marines and didn't work out because I'm a marine biologist.

Don't do that man, you may cause a bump in his future is he's financially hurting. I took out a contract myself at 19, messed up last month of it and still cursing myself years later.

The young Airman rite of passage.

Reminds me of three airmen in my class at my first base. They all went out and bought new Sentras. Within a year they were all repossessed.

Ahhhh, the Ol' Airman Basic getting out of basic training and buying a 30,000 sports car. It's a song as old as time. Some things will never change. One of my flight-mates bought a brand new Mitsubishi Evo8 right out of basic on a sub 20k a year salary. Not a smart choice.

I don't understand. Why is this a thing for military people specifically?

Because most young E-1's have never had anything and are fresh out of their parents house. They stack a little money in basic and think they're hot shit when they get out....so they go and buy a car they can't afford.

Ah ok I see. Sorry I don't live in the US and have never really known anyone in the military here. Thank you (:

You're quite welcome.

Better off to just let him learn the hard way.

It’s pretty much a guarantee he’s going to blow his money on something. It’s the baby airman way. He’ll be able to afford it, but will be car broke for a few years.

Don’t stress to much about it. Just part of being a kid with a large influx of disposable income.

He’s going to do the same stupid thing every time he makes rank and deploys/TDY. The best thing you can do is be supportive and keep an open mind with him.

And you better hope he doesn’t end up in my flight in basic.

My dad actually did this. My little brother is about to graduate HS and is leaving for basic this summer. What did they do? He co-signed for a brand new 2018 VW. Whyyyyy.

Tell him he needs to get his own insurance when he goes to Basic. Explicitly kick him off when he leaves.

19 year olds know everything and hear nothing. The Air Force and life will knock some sense into him.

Tell him to talk to his Shirt. If he's worth anything he'll try to talk him out of it. BMT is a lot of horseshit, but Shirts are there if you need 'em.

In the Air Force now. Biggest thing I can say is he should take advantage of TSP rather than splurge on a car. Especially now that they match up to 5%.

If there ever was a cliché for military kids this is it.

Graduate basic, get that sign-on bonus and that $2k pay for basic and bam, big down payment on that new car/truck/motorcycle.

This is literally someone at my high school. Same situation except they just bought a 2017 Mustang before heading off.

I was on my Mom's grand fathered in unlimited data plan on my phone for years after joining the military. I had been paying it, but it had been in her name. I felt a lot better once I got my own cell phone plan, and I know my Mom did too. You should have a talk with your son. Being junior enlisted doesn't pay super well, but he absolutely shouldn't be relying on his parents financially once he starts receiving pay from Uncle Sam.

I was enlisted for 7 years, and I am now financially well off, so let me try to explain your son's logic from a couple different perspectives. So, a fresh "joe" gets about 1400 bucks a month, no food costs, no health insurance, no rent, he spends 90-95% of his waking hours at work, he's not allowed to personalize your hair, body, or life, not allowed to express sincere opinions about politics or people you work with, he must adhere to countless rules and regulations 24/7, and live in constant fear of being caught disobeying one of these many rules, many of which he isn't even aware of yet, but he's at least aware that he's unaware of them. So, spending 6 or 7 hundred a month on a sweet car and insurance, starts to makes more sense. You're talking about the very limited and only free time you have after months of not being free, so indulging with your hard earned money feels great, and when youre lower enlisted, most of your time is spent feeling... not so great. Another thing is it starts your credit out really quick. Sure you pay a lot more over the next 5 years, but when you can be called upon at any moment to go to a theater of war, then who gives a crap about 15k over 5 years in interest. If these numbers start to really bother you, you'll just pay if off WAY faster because you have another 800 dollars to blow each month after the car payment and insurance. And this is just as a fresh enlisted service member. At 3 years youre likely to be making close to double a month, between 2400-2700, while still not having to worry about rent and food and insurance etc. Another one; being young, you've never owned anything substantial in your 18 years of existence. This is the opportunity to FINALLY be able to own something fun, really nice, and new. AND it will build your credit up extremely fast if you make just slightly higher than regular payments. The cost? A high apr meaning 15k over 5 years if you make minimum payments. USAA has great insurance and my payments went down really quick. 2 years into my loan, when I was 20, my insurance went to less than $100 a month and I had a few speeding tickets to boot. The people who dont get cars usually end up becoming losers that hangout in the barracks, never get laid, are addicted to call of duty, and end up extremely awkward people by the time they get out of service, if they get out of service. Becoming comfortable with being stuck in the barracks increases your willingness to stay in service for an indefinite amount of time because it teaches you to become more dependent on the system. Another reason thinking in hindsight; from what Ive seen people who have nice and reliable cars as lower enlisted often get promoted much much faster than their counterparts without cars. Without a car your cant take responsibility for your squad if they call you on a weekend needing a ride because they got drunk downtown. Without a car you can't make sure private snuffy is ACTUALLY at his dental appointment, rather than screwing his new wife at home.

So, thats just a few of reasons why someone would choose to get a car on a really high percentage loan, right after basic training.

$200 a month for a new driver is cheap! Consider yourself lucky lol. I’ve seen new drivers pay 500-700 for bare bones coverage.

Not realizing that the really nice cars also usually have really high insurance rates.

And maintenance costs.

Ugh, this is so frustrating. I was given my parents' hand-me-down car when I graduated college. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly grateful to have a car, particularly one I didn't have to pay for.

But it's a Cadillac. And it's getting old. And I do not have the kind of job or lifestyle that can support a Cadillac.

The 95' bmw my dad gave to me as a high school graduation gift is a fucking money pit, but goddamn did I love that car when there was nothing wrong with it... Which was never.

How bad are the repair bills/issues?

Nothing I can't pay for on credit and pay off within a month or two. I have a good mechanic who is straight with me and helps me find cost effective options. But it seems like as soon as one thing gets fixed, something else needs to be replaced.

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Ford fiesta baby

I had my passenger door latch cable break so I'd have to get out and open the door for my girlfriend. Got so many compliments from old people thinking I was just being a god damn gentleman.

"That one's a keeper!" ~ some old lady

Does it have the Northstar V8?

What is it? As long as it doesn't have the Northstar V8 you should be fine.

Ik how you feel though, I got handed down a 2013 Hyundai...with zero maintenence done on it.

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I get the tires being expensive...but Corvettes have LS motors which are very similar to their truck motors. They use regular pump gas and don't use special oil.

And it does so little for you. Your really nice car is going to be completely average in a few years. You could be in a much better financial position and buy the exact same car for a fraction of your savings.

True story. Replacement windshield for my Range Rover? Cheapest i could find was $852. For my POS Wrangler in high school? $82. It wasn't even worth it to use my insurance because the glass deductible was $100.

Replacement windshield for my Range Rover? Cheapest i could find was $852.

Automaker branded OEM glass is generally that price. Unfortunately, it's getting even worse and more pricey with HUD, rain sensors, and other fancy features on windshield glass now.

When I bought a BMW someone who'd had one earlier warned me - the maintenance is a fuckton more expensive than a Honda civic. Each dealer service visit will cost $500 to $1000.

Yes! I have a civic. My spouse has a Mini. Only one year difference in their production years.

One tire for the mini is a full set of tires for the civic.

One tire for the mini is a full set of tires for the civic.

Run flats? I knew somebody that had a mini and it had run flats

This.

I can easily buy a new set of wheels for my car for the cost of one of my father's car. Checkups and small repairs aren't particularly expensive too.

My dad bought a really nice new car a few years ago, and it was the fancy low profile tyres that were the big killer for him.

And maintenance costs.

See every smartass who buys a 10 year old, 100k mile 550i or M3. "It's a steal!" they say, never having held a wrench.

a wild BMW cooling system appears

Depends on the car. I've put nothing into my used Toyota beyond oil changes over the past few years. My friend had to sell his Volvo of a similar age because of a few issues that would've costed more to fix than the car was worth.

Toyotas are reliable and not expensive to maintain, but I highly disagree with that list you linked to. There is absolutely no way Mini, which is owned by BMW, is one of the cheapest cars to maintain.

Agreed. I've heard many horrible things about them. Can look around, but Cadillacs also have a horrible reputation, regardless.

just the northstar.

My brother just bought a Mercedes.

He's learning the hard way.

Plus they lose like 20% as soon as you drive off the lot. Vehicles are expenses, not investments. Always buy one second hand with a few thousand miles on it; just make sure that it was not mistreated by the previous owner.

How do you know if it wasn't mistreated? Anyone could abuse the hell out of an engine during a 3 year lease and return it with no penalty.

I guess you can take it to your own mechanic for a check up before purchasing if its a private sale. If it's being sold by a dealer then hopefully you live in a place with "anti-lemon" laws. Places like Car Max give you a seven-day-no-question-asked return policy.

Also predatory car loans around 20%

I mean for something like a car any interest is hard to swallow. You're literally paying for something that you cannot own or use. Car financing is such a scam.

Literally paying extra for something that is worth considerably less the minute you take possession of it...

I guess it's my own ignorance but I can't for the life of me fathom why people who are not overtly wealthy would ever buy a used car for any practical reason. If you have to have the newest thing or have to show your wealth whatever I guess but if you're just buying a vehicle there is no reason at all to buy new. You cannot, buy definition, take ownership of something at it's worth.

At least on the Californian used car market, Toyotas and Hondas depreciate so little that you are best off buying new. Friend of mine was able to sell a 12 year old Camry for 50% of the price of a new one. The poor car would have to survive 24 years for the new owner to have a lower cost of ownership per year of the car compared to the original owner.

These things are regionally dependent - on the NYC used car market, used cars are worth so little that you have to be silly to buy new. Friend of mine scored a 6 year old Prius for roughly 33% of the price of a new one.

I'm in the market for a Subaru at the moment.

Used saves me just about nothing, it's just adding a possible liability (how badly did this person thrash the car in the 10k miles they put on it before giving it back to the dealer?) for little financial gain.

It's true that buying used is on average a better choice for the whole auto market, but the depreciation curves are wildly different for different vehicles. There's plenty of vehicles out there where it makes no sense to buy used.

Not true. Pay for an older car and you avoid most of the depreciation. New cars will depreciate almost as soon as you buy them, but something a few years old will have already suffered most of that. At that point your biggest cost isn't losing resale value, but rather maintenance.

Well ya that's exactly my point, you shouldn't finance a car in my opinion. You should also avoid buying new because of the depreciation cost, let someone else eat the $5k-$10k loss and buy a one or two year old car with less than 40k miles (like a Toyota or Honda) and you essentially have a new car for 70% of the price.

It's too bad service members don't know that by law they can get interest rates capped @ 6%... but hey gotta learn somehow.

This was back in mid 2000s.

I got so many cash advances all capped @ 6% =D

I went through USAF BMT last summer and we were briefed on that. A friend did take advantage of it and was able to eliminate some debt. However the way they briefed us on the SCRA is that it’s only good to reduce interest on debts before joining the military. After you join that 20% interest on your new Mustang is yours to own.

Yes, I have read in several places it is only pre-existing debts.

Not sure what happened exactly, but my bank gave it to me on any and all credit card debt that I had before/during my service. Perhaps, because I already had the credit card (with some debt on it already) before I joined, the card (and later charges) in turn would be 6% my entire active duty period.

I have also read of some banks extending better benefits than "only debts before joining" to compete for military folk.

shrug

Just buy the Mustang (or get a loan) before shipping out. Negotiate low low payments (and whatever other great terms) with exorbitantly high interest and no early payment penalties.... They think they are suckering you... but... fuck em. Bang right in the SCRA.

Also applies to family members like wife and kids at least in my state. Used to work a pawnshop and this law made it a pain in the ass because we had to make every loan sign a paper saying if they were active duty or a direct family member and if no they just signed it and if yes they had to put the info in the military site and got the rate, if they put info in and didn't qualify they got turned away from us

That's under SCRA, that's only for service members that qualify after deployment

Negative,

"SCRA ELIGIBILITY

The SCRA covers ALL active duty service members, reservists and the members of the National Guard WHILE ON ACTIVE DUTY. The protection begins on the date of entering active duty and generally terminates within 30 to 90 days after discharge."

It also says 6% on loans prior to entering active duty, but in my experience, Wells Fargo gave me 6% through out my terms of service. 6% interest across the board on my Wells Fargo Platinum, purchases/transfers/advances. =D

https://www.military.com/benefits/military-legal-matters/scra/servicemembers-civil-relief-act-overview.html

There are companies that will do even better. Check this out from USAA. 4% on loans made prior to active service, and it seems like they offer rate assistance during the whole period of service as well.... but not necessarily 4%.

https://www.usaa.com/inet/wc/bank_military_special_benefits_main?akredirect=true

shit wtf I turned down a federal student loan at 5-10%

I just bought a car for the first time (I’m 18) and I wanted to sign by myself. It would’ve been 18% interest and $400 a month for an $18,000 car. Suffice to say I swallowed my pride and had my mom co-sign for me

Probably still a dumb decision by you grats

Real talk

Only say this because at 19 years old I signed for a motorcycle loan biggest mistake ever but I guess you need to make the mistake to learn?

Sometimes it takes a hard lesson to learn to live within your means.

Thanks for your input, but it isn’t needed. I make more than enough to pay my car payment and only meant to write a post about how I avoided an 18% interest rate on my loan. I didn’t need anyone telling me how I fucked up my life because I didn’t

Unless it's less than 10% of your monthly income is probably too much. Considering you're 18 as well insurance is gonna be high. These costs are going to be with you the next few years, so even if it's not a big deal now in the future it might be hard devoting 20%+ of your income to transportation.

It’s about 12.1% of my income. My parents are kind enough to pay for my insurance until I’m done with college. My finances are my finances and I made the appropriate decision based off of them. Thank you, though.

Hey if it works out for you more power to ya! I was just wanting to shed some light on why people were saying it might not be the best thing to do.

On some levels you made the situation worse by roping your mom and her credit in to this.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, maybe you will be the rare, responsible teenager that comes out of this kind of situation on top.

Good luck to you.

And buy used guys. If you do the homework you can find some really good value cars. The amount of depreciation that happens buying new is simply not worth it.

I do buy used, but there is something to be said for buying a car and having you know for an absolute fact every bit of work that has or hasn't gone into that vehicle.

having you know for an absolute fact every bit of work that has or hasn't gone into that vehicle.

Fiat-Chrysler would like to have a word with you

Usually those 3 year old used cars are run through hell as leases and car rentals where people dog them out. Maybe not a ford Malibu, but a mustang that dumbasses rent out, they'll fuck that shit up because it's not theirs

Are the chevrolet Fusions ok?

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I've heard the honda Camry and toyota Accord were good cars. Do you know if this is true?

I'm really thinking about getting a Porsche Gallardo

You can get a Maserati RS7 GT for a lot less and it's a much cooler car.

But for real one time I saw someone with a Camry that had a ///M badge in front of the Camry badge

Me and my coworkers travel for work almost every week. It doesn’t matter whether the rental is a Malibu or a Shelby GT. We’re going to drive it like a sports car going 60 down the highway in 3rd gear. Also, running the front end up on the curb is known as “docking position.” I will NEVER own a car that was previously rented out.

You make me feel like a good person.

Y'all reckless.

Why do you have to do these things? You realize that is like saying "yeah I heard that this neighborhood is dangerous, so I went in it and started shooting at people. Crazy enough they started shooting back. I will never trust those people again."

Did you know that renting/leasing is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle?

source

Wait, Ford makes Malibus? And Malibus are high value not dogged out?

(The Chevy Malibu is a mid-sized family car that screams "I'm a rental!" pretty loudly and gets treated as such.)

I buy used cars with around $15k miles on them. Lease turn-ins.

My thinking is that if you don’t park in a garage, buy slightly used and save a ton.

If you park outside, that thing’s baking in the sun all day long.

And it seems like the deprecation hit isn't as much as it used to be, especially when you're talking Japanese econoboxes that hold their value really well. I ended up paying $15k for a new Yaris iA. Felt like I got a pretty good deal considering I was seeing similar used cars that already had 40k miles go for $12-14k.

Paying even $15,000 for a car seems insane to me. Sure, it's better than paying $45,000 for a new car but that's still way too much money for transportation.

In a good budget, you should be paying no more than 8% of your income to transportation. That means that if you've got a $55k/year job, which is pretty much median (and many young people will be well below that) your vehicle budget is $366/month for gas, insurance, repairs, and payments. If you make $20k/year it's $133. Which means anything that's more than about $40/month in a payment (roughly $2500 for the car) is way more than you can responsibly afford.

that's still way too much money for transportation.

Depends on the person, their situation, and their wants and desires. As a general statement, saying a $15k car is way too much money for transportation as a general statement is laughable

In a good budget, you should be paying no more than 8% of your income to transportation.

This is an arbitrary rule of thumb that may or may not work for different people

For someone making the typical amount of money a 20 year old makes, yes it's way too much.

Edit, I'll expand on that. Assuming a new car purchase every 5 years, in order to safely afford a $15,000 car and everything that goes along with it (we'll say $2000/year in maintenance, $1500/year in gas, $600/year in insurance), you're looking at $630/month in transportation. That's $95,000/year if you want to adhere to a healthy budget. So yes, $15,000 for a car is a lot.

That's $95,000/year if you want to adhere to a healthy budget.

*What you think is a healthy budget

You definitely don't need to make $95k/year to afford a $15k car

You're right, that was $95k after taxes. If you want to have a healthy budget that allows for a high degree of savings you do. If you want to spend all of your money on a liability at the expense of financial security, I guess you can make the purchase while bringing in less income.

This is a healthy budget, make your purchases accordingly:
Rent - 18% of income (if a mortgage, it should be 6% of income so you can make 3 payments per month)
Utilities - 6% of income
Transportation - 8% of income
Food - 10% of income
Insurance - 10% of income (random insurances, car falls under transportation)
Misc items - 5% of income
Hobbies - 10% of income
Savings - 25% of income
Vacation - 8% of income

Of you want to have a healthy budget that allows for a high degree of savings you do.

No you don't. It comes down to the "personal" aspect of "personal" finance.

If you want to spend all of your money on a liability at the expense of financial security, I guess you can make the purchase while bringing in less income.

This kind of ridiculous gross overstatement is why it's hard to take people like you seriously.

This is a healthy budget, make your purchases accordingly:

There are plenty of different ways to have a "Healthy budget".

Rent - 18% of income (if a mortgage, it should be 6% of income so you can make 3 payments per month)

This is legitimately laughable

Lmao, yeah, I probably did spend too much on my car compared to my income, but I have a budget and can handle it.

I could almost respect it if he was one of those "save half no matter what people", but the percentages this guy pulled out his ass are pretty funny. 10% of my take-home on "random insurances"??? I'd have to make about 80% more than I do now for rent to only be 18% of my take-home, and my rent is about as cheap as it gets for a 1br in an okay neighborhood. And I still manage to stay pretty well ahead.

Lmao, yeah, I probably did spend too much on my car compared to my income, but I have a budget and can handle it.

Yeah. The kicker with the stupid "your car should be 10% of your post-tax income" rule is that it means that I would barely be able to afford my car (06 Impreza wagon) even though I make north of $70k per year.

10% of my take-home on "random insurances"???

Especially after car insurance (the largest one by a mile if you're renting) falls under transportation

What makes you say that rental percentage is laughable? If you can't swing that, then take shitter renting conditions until you can. Then don't buy a house you can't safely afford.

Short of having a very high income job, if you're in your 20's or 30's right now and you don't do this in the US you simply will not ever retire.

That healthy budget is not of someone in their 20s (not their early 20s anyway). Hobbies and vacation do not add up to 18 percent for someone who is just trying to get a career started and doesn't have much money. That, and a good percentage of the misc category will get relocated to rent and transportation. You take care of the necessities first, and then those luxuries come later. For a single person in their 20s, food is probably a bit high too. You can cook relatively cheaply if you are doing it for yourself. All of this will change depending on a person's circumstances though. It's not a 1 size fits all, but you can definitely afford a 15k car on less than 95k per year. It's just a matter of where you have your priorities with your budget. For me, I would list transportation far above vacation, but I don't really take vacations. It's hard to have a flatline healthy budget when people have different priorities and needs.

I know a couple people that died in accidents in 80s econoboxes that probably would have survived in 2010s. What's the roi on the 12k they saved vs what they would have earned in their whole lives?

Point is, set a floor, if you just want transportation, get a late model car and drive it into the ground. It might be a gamble to get into an old car without safety, so id never advise people to do it to save money alone.

Like a service record and prepurchase inspection?

I have heard that poor people and rich people are better off buying used. Poor people because they can’t afford a new car, rich people because they can afford to repair or replace the used car if things go wrong. Middle class people are better off with the new car because there is more certainty it will last then until they can save up enough for the next car.

This is assuming you buy cash.

On the flip side:

If you buy or lease a new car, although you are losing money, you are paying monthly for a guarantee of a working vehicle. You'll never be on the hook for serious repairs if you play your cards right. (beyond regular maintenance like oil/tires/brakes) No matter what, a vehicle is a net loss - you will likely never gain money on a car, so there's arguments to be made about the benefits of buying new. Personally, I'd prefer CPO - you get both the discount and an extended warranty, and a new-ish car.

While we're on this subject:

Don't cheap out on tires

A good set of name brand tires can easily save your life, especially if you live in an area that ever gets rain.

My first car was a 2002 Honda Civic that I bought off craigslist for like $3 or $4k. I was only 17 and I didn't know too much about cars as my family was dirt poor and we never actually had a car. I only knew about the basics.

That car was truly fucked. Ended up getting fired from my shitty retail job because I kept coming in late due to my car breaking down constantly. Spent shitloads of money on repairs every other month. Then college came around and I almost missed my final/midterm exams for the same reason. I practically lived at the mechanic's garage.

One time even the headlights were having issues. The mechanic charged me double because it turns out the previous owner DIY'd the electrical wiring and removing it all/adding new wires and reorganizing it took longer than it was supposed to.

When I graduated college and got my 9-5 office job I said fuck that, went to a dealer and got a pre-owned 2013 Corolla. Sure it might not be the wisest financial decision and I could be saving a lot more money, but I can afford the monthly payments and insurance. To me, the peace of mind of having a car that won't die on me for many years is absolutely worth it. In the future though, I might check out those used car dealers. They sometimes have good deals for decent cars. I know I don't want to spend another 5 years paying off another pre-owned car.

Yup, let someone else eat that $5-$10k loss in value after a one year lease and essentially get a new car. There are so few circumstances where a new car is worth it, buying new/low miles for cars makes way too much sense to ignore.

Certain parts on certain cars require replacement after so many thousand miles. So, say after 10,000 Miles car A needs a new part for a turbo engine. You can buy it at 9000 miles and expect to fork out a few grand for an expensive part or you can buy car B at 50,000 miles, the same model and its had 3 or 4 major expensive parts replaced already.

I know what’d I’d buy

I found an absolute steal of a car this way - only had 4,000 miles so it was practically brand new. Dealership had it listed for $18,000 when it would have cost $26,000 new. Was worried at first why the other owner got rid of it so fast but two years strong and no issues yet.

Think of the guy that bought it new... how much would it fucking suck to buy a car brand new, only so 4,000 miles and have the dealership tell you "hey I'll take that off your hands for less than 50% what you paid for it."

I’ll never buy a new car in my life. If you have a trust worthy mechanic who can look over potential buys, you’ll never go wrong buying used.

I’ll never buy a new car in my life.

I ain't waiting on self-driving cars to hit the used market. As soon as someone makes a car that will drive me around, I'm in. But otherwise, I agree with you. Really, I'm planning on keeping my current ones until self-driving becomes a thing.

This is true. Although I’ll wait until the kinks are worked out a few generations in. Lol.

Every time a self-driving car fails, self-driving cars will get better, this is good! You just gotta remember that your death could be a data point in the future.

Keep your eyes on the road.

That said, you can sometimes score on a good new! My brand new, 20 miles on the odometer, 2018 Dodge Challenger RT cost me as much as a used one due to dealer incentives and trade in value.

Well... No, you still paid for it. You can always make more money selling your trade in vehicle privately.

I know, but that would involve time and effort.

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Some nice ones on CL for $4-6k. Great value. Bulletproof drivetrain.

I just bought a wrangler. I love love love my Jeep.

But as I was shopping i was finding that friggen wranglers (and Outbacks) hold their value so well that until I got into the 4-5 year old models there was a negligible difference in price and the mileage was high af. A dealer locally offered me a 2015 rubicon with 43k Miles for 40k, missing both of my mandatory features (leather and heated seats). I hesitated. Then got online and found an 18 Sahara with 38 (total) miles and the features I wanted and then some for 8k less than the used one.

Similar situation w the husbands outback. Sometimes used cars aren’t the better deal.

Have a Wrangler as well. As much as I love it, gas consumption is through the roof. My fiancé and I share the car and we spend about $80 a week on gas. :(

Ooooof. I average like 16mpg. Not too terrible yet

People buying first cars have never had it better when it comes to used vehicles.

Except for price. Before Cash for Clunkers took a ton of good cars off the market and drove used prices way up.

I got a used 2012 Mercedes in January and I'm already over halfway to having it paid off. Fantastic ride and the base price was less than a new prius (although operating cost is obviously higher with premium fuel and maintenance).

I knew so many people in uni who graduated and immediately bought brand new cars via financing. When they were hunting I kept telling them “try looking at used cars first, you’ll never know what diamonds in the rough you might find.”

Nope. Did one used car search and then immediately made a break for the dealership and signed onto a payment plan on a brand new car they couldn’t really truly afford. Then they had the audacity to complain about being stuck under constant bills and payments every month while I’m over there sitting on my car that I paid $3500 that’s in great shape and runs well and all I pay is $80 insurance monthly.

The value of buying used cars in your early years is not overstated.

Why would you buy someone else’s problem

My car is the only financially “irresponsible” purchase I’m ever allowing myself to make. I have good savings, a solid emergency fund, zero student loan debt, and my total for insurance+payment is about 1/9th of my monthly take-home. I’m aggressively paying off the loan so I should have the 5 year loan paid off in 2 and a half.

I drive a metric ass ton for work, and after dealing with a 97’ Integra with no AC, busted seats, slipping transmission and $2k in repairs staring me in the face for 2 years, I decided to buy something nice for myself for once.

I think it’s the combination of car + other lifestyle changes that put people under.

You upgraded to a clean Integra Type-R right?

Coworker just bought a Tesla. $1100/mo payment. $1000/mo insurance. It's absolutely insane. My rent payment was less than his monthly payment before car insurance.

That's unbelievable.

If you can afford a car like that, buy it. Cash.

If you need to finance it, maybe look at the $20k new car? Tops. And with the other $1750 a month, maybe pay down your mortgage?

He's young and doesn't have a mortgage. Which I think is half the problem. Too much disposable income and not enough foresight.

"really nice cars" also usually turn into "kinda crappy cars" quicker than you would think. If you're thinking about buying a BMW, go look at a BMW from 5 years ago and ask, "would I pay for that?"

My uncle had a 2007 335i that he sold last year and that thing ran like a dream, whatchu on about?

I have an 07 Audi A8 I bought in 2015. Sure I've put in some work but it's a great car

This is going to come off as pedantic because you were just giving an example, but honestly BMWs specifically still look great years later in my opinion. That's as long as you take good care of them. The design just hasn't changed much that the old ones look like shit. Compare a 1998 Beemer to a 2018 Beemer, then compare a 1998 Mustang to a 2018 Mustang.

Costlier cars are almost always costlier to own. Just because you saved up to buy that Porsche doesn't mean your rich enough to own a Porsche.

Really? My 2009 A4 still looks brand new inside and out.

I’ve seen ‘90s Audis that I’d own in a fucking heartbeat if I knew how to do maintenance... Audis stay pretty forever when they’re taken care of.

I really miss my 1999.5 A4 1.8T. It was a base model but it was in great shape.

06 A3 here, looks pretty damn nice still

Team Audi! My A8 looks and runs great

If you're thinking about buying a BMW, go look at a BMW from 5 years ago and ask, "would I pay for that?"

The rest of my family owns 10+ year old BMWs. Yes, I definitely would pay for that. You get loads of car for your dollar.

Would you pay for it for the cost of a new one tho.

Why would you pay the cost of a new car for one 5+ years old?

Because if you buy it as a kid you'll still be paying it off

Paying with cash is a doable option. Or taking a reasonable loan is a doable option.

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There are plenty of good choices for out-of-warranty German cars.

Ugh, car payments suck. They suck worse than just about any other payment I make. Also my insurance (collision w/ a $500 deductible) is over $200/mo. Stick with something reliable and inexpensive. If you can't make a down payment and monthly payments to finish off the loan within 3 years don't take out a loan. I like my car, but life would be a LOT easier if I didn't have car payments as high as they are for so long.

Definitely, if possible at all save up and buy with cash. Inventory really is high and you can almost always get something really quality with $10k (or $15k). Bam, no car payment and you just gave yourself a raise.

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I think it’s more that people have spare money and want a new car. I made it a month after paying off my car before buying another.

I have three payments until this thing is mine free and clear. I am looking forward to that!

I made this mistake. Also, really nice cars have eye-watering maintenance bills. I bought a BMW at 23 and between the monthly payments and insurance and maintenance I basically couldn’t have a life anymore.

I fooled myself thinking “I take home $X per month, the monthly payments add up to a third of $X, this will be easy!” Nope. Don’t do it.

Maybe try making the car payments + insurance + parking + fuel costs into a savings account for three months and see what it does to your lifestyle before committing to that.

What BMW did you buy? I'm 22 and just leased a ~52k 340i.

That's like 3 red flags from this thread in one line

My payment is <10% of my take home post tax.

I got a 330i. Have fun with the 340. Despite the cost I do miss that car.

But Ill be happier with a newer car!

And higher taxes. And a fast depreciation, dollar-wise.

I'm trying to convince my sister not to buy an SUV after she graduates college. She's been in 4 accidents since high school... "I want a big car because I go on a lot of road trips" she says. Soon it'll be, "I can't afford to go on another road trip" lol.

The bigger the engine the more you pay for fuel.

I’m an insurance agent and I can 100% confirm. If you are young, and can barely afford the car note, DO NOT but a new car, even if it’s a shitty Nissan Versa.

Just get a 200X Honda, paid off, and put liability on it. You will thank yourself when you have an extra 600 dollars a month in your pocket.

Oh I felt this one hard when my first car cost me $400/month for insurance. Didn't keep it long.

Holy shit. Was it full coverage insurance on a Ferrari Enzo kept outside in a driveway in the ghettos of Chicago while you were 16 and had a very long bad driving history?

Nope, Hyundai Tiburon. New 18 year old Male driver so price skyrockets. Sporty car, dark color, no driving history and yeah fully insured because I knew I'd end up selling it at some point and didn't wanna get fucked over if I crashed it, it was my first car after all. Also Canadian dollars so the number is slightly inflated.

Ok that makes more sense. Did you know about the insurance cost when you were buying the car?

No idea. Didnt think about it too much tbh. Certainly didn't think it would be THAT high. I was thinking like maybe $250 tops. I shopped around too, and that 400 was the best deal I could get.

And expensive to maintain

Honestly. I’m just about to start learning to drive (public transport in the UK is getting more and more inaccessible) and I couldn’t believe how much insurance is! And then I look at some of my friends cars and wonder whether they’re eating instant noodles all the time to be able to afford it lol.

My friend was paying rent and a £800pcm loan for over a year, just to drive a Mk2 Focus RS. He was on mid/low 20k salary. He literally didn't save a penny per month. Madness.

This is why I bought a broken not running BMW. All in all it cost me 3500. Learned how to fix it through DIY on YouTube. Now I have a almost perfectly running sports car that I haven’t spent more than 3500 on.

I bought a motorcycle so I can die young and not have to pay for years and years of insurance.

And lower mpg, more expensive tires and maintenance. People don't think about daily costs of buying that expensive car. Get something small with good gas mileage. Spend that money you saved traveling and shit.

Mate just had a tyre pop on his financed MINI. Cost him £170 for one tyre, fully fitted, at the garage.

I sold my last car (1998 Renault Laguna 2.0) for £180, which was fully working.

Got a good friend with 90K in student loan debt combined with their fiance talking about buying a new BMW and saving for a house and honeymoon in New Zealand

Like bitch you guys are broke wtf you doing

Boots in the military do this all the time a guy in my friends unit bought a Ford Raptor just before deployment then started asking his platoon Sargent if 15% interest rate was good...

Kelly Blue book reported it cost over $700/month for a new car. This is the TCO (total cost of ownership).

And this amount is supposed to be included in your 50% living expenses. This 50% is also supposed to include rent, medical cost, grocery, basic utilities, etc. If your paycheck can't pay for all that on top of an average of $700/month car you should be putting away, you cannot afford a new car...possible ANY car. Maybe get a used motorcycle.

Yuuuuup. I got stuck with a car I can't afford and it is singlehandedly ruining my life. Between the monthly cost of the car and the insurance (which is almost as expensive as the car is...) I barely have money for anything but the gas that powers the damn thing. Worst decision I ever made by far... and it started out as a lease, which was even dumber.

Worst part is, my father pressured me into both the car and the lease after convincing me not to repair my fairly-serviceable first car for $2000. I found out later that he specifically suggested an expensive car just so I'd be forced to cosign with him and he could control me through payments he knew damn well that a teacher could never make if he, an entrepreneur, wasn't cosigned. Sure enough, when it came time to refinance, we had already been estranged for months, and now I'm saddled with a soul-sucking vehicle I hate at a price I never should have agreed to.

But damn does she look pretty in the driveway.

You're describing large swaths of privates and PFCs in the military. (It's not limited to those ranks mind you.) It's ridiculously common. You'll see guys who will rationalize shit like spending a good 75% of their net pay on a car and thinking they'll be just fine because they have a few hundred left over after that.

There's kind of a running joke that whenever you see something like a brand spanking new sports car parked in front of the barracks, it's probably owned by some kid who's fresh out of bootcamp. Oh and don't forget that +26% retroactive interest if the car isn't paid off in a year or two.

This is a big one! Always check the insurance rates or you'll get stuck with a mad expensive car.

I was 25 when I bought a car for three times the cost of my previous one, but my rates went up only by around $30 per month. I still wish I didn't get it, because then I felt locked into my job that I didn't like and now I value experience so much more than material things. The car is fun as hell to drive tho...

I'm proud to say that about 2 years ago, at 21, I bought a $12k 2014 Hyundai Elantra! Reliable, affordable, and practical. No need for anything wild, especially without the means to do so.

Wise choice!

I’m 34, make $70k a year, finish grad school in December which will result in pay being bumped up to $100k a year and I can’t even bring myself to buy a new civic SI for $23k out the door. Instead I drive a 16 year old beater with 195k miles on it. I think I’m just being cheap though

On the insurance but that really depends. I went from a clunker to a lightly used mid size sedan with all the safety features and my premium went down.

Insurance companies are starting to realize driving newer, safer vehicles generally means less expensive care when you’re involved in a wreck.

So true, plenty people also focus on a Car befor a real Home, what kind of logic is this?

I can live in a car, can't drive a home.

But in reality, I love driving and want a practical performance car (hot hatch). It'll be my daily driver for the next decade. I'd rather have a blast every day driving it than have some extra equity when I retire.

Without going too crazy, enjoy your money now, rather than in 40 years once you have paid off the house.

I mean taking out a loan on a car for 300k instead of a house/apartment is just insane to me. Smaller enjoyments I have no problem supporting.

No to mention the nicer a car is, generally the faster it will depreciate. Look around at Mercedes that are 10-15 years old, then look up how much they were new.

Every car I've ever owned has been older than me, which means generally more costly for maintenance since they need more attention, but overall far cheaper than having the "latest and greatest".

People also don't look at reliability, and don't realize not all cars are created equal: some are better than others.

Certainly depends on the car. People can splurge on a nice practical performance car. They hold their value well and are cheap to maintain, run, and are still practical.

I'm talking cars like the Civic Si, GTI, Focus ST. Up to and including the Golf R, Civic Type-R, and Focus RS.

All fantastic cars. That bracket of the car world is perfect for entry level enthusiasts.

I'm looking at buying a Civic Type-R, and it will only increase my insurance by about $40. It has twice the HP and 100x the performance capabilities than my current car.

Not only that, it has a HUGE trunk, and is packed with amenities. Excellent ride ride comfort as well (multiple drive modes with adjustable magnetic suspension).

Cost? Cheaper than a new mid-tier Accord. Cheaper than a new entry level BMW. And will certainly hold its value better than either of those.

Plus, I'll grab one that's a year old and knock a few grand off the MSRP.

Nice, personally I think the new civic (the Type R in particular) looks awesome, I'm surprised the insurance difference is only $40. I'm just waiting for 25, so my insurance will start to calm down.

Yup, not much of a difference between the Si and the Type-R for me. Currently pay $180 for the NA 2.0L Civic. It'll be about $220 for the CTR and like $210 for the Si though USAA. I'm 23 now, can't wait till I'm 25.

Great example. As an older car buyer myself too, my favourite thing is seeing hard depreciation on "luxury" cars. Mercedes CLS, the original from 10 year ago probably retailed at £50/60k. You can get one for £3,500 now.

Not to mention of you stumble on an AMG. v12, great (not really) reliability, all the luxuries of the last decade, and a nice interior.

Extra points for when they crash them too

Ohh my gosh have I seen this wayyy to many times. Hate to be the asshole to say this but one would think this is common sense honestly.

The markup on new cards is absolutely unnecessary and should be avoided by anyone reasonably financially responsible. This goes doubly for early 20s customers who'll surely have high insurance costs.

guy mid twenties and Soon have to buy a new/ish car.. cause my old is breaking down.. I really don't want to buy an other renavation project car.. but I can't afford a newish car .. I think I'm screwed cause if my car breaks I loose my job. I feel really stuck

guy mid twenties and Soon have to buy a new/ish car.. cause my old is breaking down.. I really don't want to buy an other renavation project car.. but I can't afford a newish car .. I think I'm screwed cause if my car breaks I loose my job. I feel really stuck

All the bells and whistles break and need to be repaired too.

I stupidly did this. Now I'm broke every single month. I can't even move out of my parents house. But I'm not paying any interest on this car and it'll be paid off in 2 years. So I'll be free after that and not broke. I'm definitely not ever going to get another vehicle just to look 'cool' this one will be fine. Lesson learned.

Guilty but in a disappointing way. I wanted a nice luxury sedan, a "Land Yacht", so I figured I'd find something less than 10 years old and under 100k miles. Bought an Infiniti G35x sedan for about $11k 2 years ago. If I were to fix everything in it to make it drive like the new car I imagined it to be it would cost about half that. I'm getting rid of it soon and leasing the cheap Mazda I've actually always wanted.

I would also like to say that just because you can get a used Audi/BMW/Range Rover for less than $10,000, it doesn't mean that you can afford it. Repairs on those things can be astronomical.

Bought a 2009 BMW built MINI for £8k few years back. Astronomical maintenance prices confirmed.

Never again.

The nicest car I’ve owned is a 2000 Silverado

Not only that, but some of my friends in their 30s still fall in that trap.

This so much. I had a friend who went out and bought a BMW when he was 19.

Same person had never held a job longer than 6 months, barely graduated high school.

Fast forward and he had to drop out of community college because he couldn’t afford to make the payment AND put enough gas in the car to get to school and back.

Currently, for me, this is any vehicle. I also hate driving. I made the decision to just live closer to the city and rely on public transport instead of paying insurance, monthly payments, gas and being prepared to buck up for emergency repairs. For some reason my mother is supremely displeased by this.

So much this

Some really cheap cars have high insurance rates too due to being less safe for the occupants if an accident were to occur. Medical costs ain't cheap.

In the UK this is rife. All the budget cars I want have annual insurance costs that are almost the value of the vehicle, and yet I am 28, been driving for 10 years.

Think it's a ploy to get "old cars" off the road, so you buy newer ones and get in a finance trap.

Note: I'm going to be that guy but if you live in a city/have a lifestyle that's amenable to it, I can't recommend going car-less enough. You might be paying a lot more than you think. In addition, not driving anywhere, or at all, will be great for your health, if you're too busy to exercise regularly, and can afford you some advantages you might not have thought about before. Biking is great for reducing stress and getting some exercise in before your work, whereas taking the bus/subway allows you to read or sleep.

Buying a brand new vehicle was dumb as F, never again. Better off getting a year old one. Unless u can really afford a new car it's a waste imo.

Im in my 20s but i dont drive. Mostly because im shit at it, but also i save a good amount of money not having to pay for gas, car note, insurance, etc. Helps me stay in somewhat decent shape too.

I’m 19 and was working a full time job making $400 a week after taxes (still live with my parents and only pay my phone bill so I was able to put like $300-$350 into savings comfortably each week). My plan was to finance a nice fairly new car (though I already have a car that’ll last me awhile still) once I saved up to like $5k, but then I got laid off.

I just started at that same job again today and the 2 month lay off was probably best for me because now I’m focusing on saving all my money for college. A much more worthwhile investment in my opinion. I’m hoping to start my first two years at a community college this year to keep costs down.

What's more is that no car is immune from damage or totaling, so it will hurt even more when you get your expensive car into an accident.

7 years ago my parents bought me an '01 Malibu. I still drive it most every day. No car payment. Cheap registration. Cheap insurance. Life is good.

Also not realizing that modern cars can be had for $2000-$6000 running and inspected. A decade ago cheap cars often had lack of significant modern amenities or safety features which made buying newer a better decision. Now though the cheap cars often have everything besides the radar based stuff.

I don't understand buying a car that requires payments while this young. It seems like buying a $2000, 20 year old car on Craigslist that needs occasional repairs is a better choice than buy an ostensibly "more reliable" car that just keeps on costing money.

I know a bunch of people with brand new cars. Not necessarily fancy luxury ones but that sort of goes to support my point....Like really what's the difference between a brand new off the lot civic and a 4 year old one with half the value? If you make tonnes of money go buy all the brand new cars you want but I doubt you're pulling in 6 figures stocking shelves in a warehouse.

I have a friend who's in college who bought a straight up BMW like 2 years old. WRECKED it in a semester. And now he's had another new BMW and just updated on Facebook saying he spent over 8 hours fixing the paint. Like what are you doing man?

Oooo and usually higher maintenance too.

I know someone who just leased a car for 44k not including insurance and gas. The car is a 2 year lease so easily 50k gone over 2 years. This person has 0 education - No HS no College nothing and lives at home.

That type of money is frightening to me when I can barely spent 5$ on lunch

My husband (before I meet him) got a used Nissan for the low, low payment of $426 per month, not including insurance. Blew my shitting mind when he told me. I helped him refinance from a 26% interest rate to 11%, and now (five years later) we have to cars with 6% and 4% interest rates instead. People don't seem to get how much cars really cost in their teens, and then hit their twenties and find out.

high insurance rates, high depreciation, high cost. no thanks, ill stick with my $3k vehicle

Not only that but nice cars also cost a heck of a lot more to fix if anything ever goes wrong. If its a pretty fast car, tyres wear out quicker and cost more, you gotta pay for fuel more often, etc.

The worst thing about going from my beloved piece of crap 1996 Geo Metro to a used 2009 Toyota Camry was the increase in insurance it went from 600 a year to 1300 a year instantly

I dont understand it, but my shitty $4k car with the cheapest one way insurance cost me LESS than insurance for my brand new $24k fully insured subaru. I have no idea.

I'm 19 and work at an American Eagle part-time and I can't believe some of the cars my co-workers drive. Half of them are making payments on $25,000 cars while trying to pay for college. It's just stupid.

You could just move to a state that doesn't require mandatory auto insurance, like NH.

Or I can buy a FK8 Civic Type-R which only raises my insurance by about $40, for 200x the performance ;)

Oh and twice the trunk space and luxuries. Currently driving a '16 Civic EX.

Coasting on their potential. It's easy to put off actually doing anything while you're still basking in the glory of being the smart kid at school or university, but then all of a sudden you're 29 and there are celebrities younger than you and you find yourself wondering where to even get started.

If you want something, the time to start working towards it is while you're young and hungry.

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Yep. I heard that all my life too. Sure would've been nice if I couldv'e seen what everyone else saw back then.

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People look at smart kids and think they will have life on easy mode. It's not like that at all. But if a smart person works hard they will do great in practically any field they choose.

The worst part of a smart kid's life is the realisation that they do have it on easy mode. It seems great at first, they don't have to work hard, they don't stress about the tests, nothing's a challenge, and they're told they can dream of everything they want.

Then they end up in a place where this isn't the case. They're actually forced to work. Being smart enough is not enough. And they're not prepared for it. And all those grandiose dreams that they've been filling themselves with, they realise they're never going to have. They're not going to cure cancer after all, they're going to get yelled at because they haven't finished today's report for 30 years until they were in theory supposed to retire, only to realise that they can't really retire. They're not going to be rich, just aspiring to modest wealth.

One way to mitigate some of this is to actually prepare them for this. But getting the type of support in place is not likely to happen as it is not politically correct to help people who already have it "so easy".

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I’m gonna guess you’re a woman? I feel like men aren’t as concerned with being around attractive people unless it’s a romantic interest. I wonder if I’m off base here

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Wow you got downvoted hard, I’m not even sure why lol

I'm gonna assume it has something to do with

I just want to be around girls who are good looking

What a sin...

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I see what you’re saying. I’d bet a girl could get away with saying she likes to hang out with handsome dudes. But to be fair men aren’t constantly objectified so we aren’t as sensitive to that kind of statement.

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I mean idk if you’d be “praised” per se lol

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Help me figure out what I’m missing then?

Why? That’s 100% sexist. Why should a guy not be able to speak his mind and a girl should? I’m not going to lie and call unattractive girls hot. I never said anyone was “ugly” anyway, I just said I don’t find many of them good looking.

Depends - is it gravitational or electric?

Opportunities can be cultivated. I learned that pretty late, but not too late.

But how do I cultivate them when there are none around me? All I have is a group of people I don’t look up to telling me I have potential

Here's the thing: you have to get in the mindset that there are always opportunities available to you. Because it's true. Recognizing them and knowing how to act upon them is a skill that can be learned and trained.

"Cultivating opportunities" is understanding that the opportunities available to you at any single moment will most likely not be huge, obvious and 100% in line with your goals. Cultivating opportunities is knowing how to recognize the small opportunities, and acting upon them in ways that maximize your chances of hatching other, bigger and better fitting opportunities in the future, then latching on to those new opportunities, always making a step on the path towards your goals, as big or small as it is.

Now you're probably asking yourself how this applies to you in practice, and your mind is automatically thinking up excuses for why this can't possibly apply to your situation. Do not worry, this is a normal reaction. Time for a step-by-step guide!

  • First you need goals, of course. I like to keep my goals kinda vague, because I just like to jump from one opportunity to the next and see what happens. But if there's one thing in particular that you want, don't be afraid to set that as your goal.
  • Then you need to subdivide this goal in sub-problems that you can take and solve in order. You don't need all the details yet, but the two things you absolutely need to boil it down to are: at least one step you can take in the direction of your goal, and one problem that you will likely encounter after that step is taken. In other words, try to bring it down to visualizing two "moves" in advance. This way you don't overwhelm yourself and avoid analysis paralysis. Stay focused on what you can do.
  • Now you have to find the opportunities that will allow you to take that step and solve that problem. This is the part where you have to open your eyes, talk to people, make a list of businesses/people that could help you, etc. Don't despair if you don't see anything at first. As I said, that skill needs to be trained.
  • If you really don't have anything else, remember that you will always have your time as a basic marketable resource, and you can always offer your time to help someone as a basic opportunity that you have some degree of control over. Find non-profit orgs, businesses or people who are in the same domain as your goal. Contact a bunch of them and offer your help. For example, people often neglect documentation and taking notes; you can offer to document their process, compile meeting notes, make tutorials about the topic. This is a nice opportunity to learn while helping. You will start making connections and building a reputation. Those can be used to cultivate your next opportunities.
  • At this point you can start spinning multiple plates. Some opportunities you cultivate will appear to go dormant for some time. During this downtime you should explore other avenues, take up other opportunities. This way you have multiple "threads" that you can use to strengthen one another (if you see the opportunity!) or as backup plans if others fizzle out. I suggest having a place, could be a .txt file, a personal wiki, a notebook, where you keep track of your threads, the next step you're looking to take for each (as well as when you plan to take it), and the next problem you foresee you'll bump against. Once in a while, re-read it to refresh your mind and help you find new opportunities.

TL;DR: If you want to build something big, start by building a small version of it and share it with other people.

As others mentioned in this thread, people saying "you have potential" basically translate to "you haven't done shit yet". But they're hopeful that you can, eventually. You have to find ways to act. Actions are how you reach your goals. Just sitting there waiting for huge, one-in-a-lifetime opportunities to hit you hard over the head isn't.

I sincerely hope this helps. PM me if you want specific advice. I could give examples from my real-life experience, but this wall-of-text is already getting rather wall-of-texty.

The issue is, you probably did. You just thought that your potential would be naturally unlocked. Well, shit, I did, at least.

Even being told that you're going to have to work for it, you're going to believe that you don't. Potential is all they can tell you you have. It's up to you to realise that you're the one that has to develop that potential. Being told that you're not going to make it sometimes makes people work harder because they realise they do want it, but it also leads to giving up.

I never considered myself anything special though hell my drill instructor even got mad at me once because he thought I was wasting it, I just never saw what he did. It's amazing how different one's perspective is when a select few people tell you you're [insert positive attribute], but you're so used to being invisible and ignored you can't see it.

I had a boss tell me a few years back that potential just means "You haven't accomplished shit" One of the few inspirational phrases that has ever stuck with me.

My mom still tells me I have potential.

My dad always said "You have so much potential" is not a compliment, specifically because it means you aren't achieving everything you could be.

On the other end people used to tell me I had no potential because I didn't give a fuck and was a pothead till community college and soon Im set to make A damn good salary and get to travel the US with paid living expenses.

Went from 2.0 student to 3.9gpa nursing student and I graduate next year then after getting a year of ER experience I'm going to be a travel nurse where they make 75 to 100k if they're motivated.

There was a joke a teacher made he said "Ironically I'd probably wind up making more then everybody else in the classroom"

Just goes to show how even in nearly an instant you can choose to make a change and set yourself on the path to succeed. If you decide one day to flip a switch and work your ass off, many times people can get what they dream of

You'll always have potential mate.
You may not be the youngest ever to do whatever you want to do, but that shouldn't stop anyone from doing it. Never feel like just because you're not in your 20s anymore you potential is wasted. Even in your 60s you could build a financial empire that spans the globe or write the next hot privacy-smart social media platform, or even develop a system to help feed starving homeless kids in your city. There's always potential, up until the day you die. Like you said, you just gotta use it.

People used to tell me that all the time, but I slowly realized that was mostly trying to get me to do what they wanted. I had so much potential, so I should be a pharmacist or an engineer or a surgeon. Any time I wanted to do something that I actually liked, it was always a "waste of your potential."

There is a book called Grit by Angela Duckworth that discusses this

Yep. I feel like 22, 23 is when this hits.

You word this excellently.

Now you are making me worry . A lot of people compliment me and tell me i have a great future with my great mind. I always shrug that of cuz it feels like they belittle me. I dont want compliments god damit. I cant accept them they feel so shallow.

Same here. I was 'so bright', 'so smart'. And then idk what happened.

Potential doesn't mean shit. It's a shitty word used project their insecurities in a condensending way if you really think about it. They might also not have lived up to their potential. The not si obvious answer to acheiving your potential revolves on IQ and , conscientiousness which is broken down into industriousness and orderliness. The human potential is unlimited. Paying close attention to yourself, negotiating with yourself, and treating yourself as I'd you actually cared will help a long way.

No one ever told me that as an insult, only as an encouragement and a compliment.

I guess what I am trying to get at. It's kind of when someone says he/she is so smart, he is so talented or he has so much potential. Often ignoring the effort, time, and concentration. I know people who say that have good intentions, but a deeper anylasis can reveal invisible consequences of small phrases

Tell you the truth, i’m young and hungry but i dont know what i want. So I feel like i’m coasting but going nowhere. It’s frustrating because I want to be worth somthing but I don’t really know what to do different because I have no real goals or ambitions.

Pick a thing. Any thing. It doesn't have to be perfect, but if you can afford it and it's not too dangerous and it looks like it might be fun, do that thing. If you like it, keep doing it. If you don't, do something else. This is the advice I wish I'd got at eighteen.

You're a lot more likely to stumble over the thing you want to do when you're out experiencing new things and meeting new people than you are just waiting for something to drop into your lap -- and if nothing else, you're likely to become a much more interesting and well-rounded individual along the way.

A caveat to this advice; if it involves getting higher education, go to community college first and go talk to many, many people who do what you are thinking about. Ask about their frustrations and hardships and what gets them out of bed every morning. Ask them what they would do if they had to do something else. Had I done this and found out what I know now, my wife and I would have 26k less debt in student loans for degrees we don’t use.

If you live in the US. I don't and I wish I'd just bitten the bullet and gotten one of the several bachelors I was interested in instead of fucking around working hospitality jobs and backpacking most of the year (well that bit was sorta fun but still) waiting for some...I don't even know...divine epiphany or dream featuring Morgan Freeman as god or whatever tf I thought I was going to get telling me "I can 100% confirm that you will enjoy studying psychology more than law, go do it and have no doubts". I imagine it's similar for some people in Europe. To be sure even when university is affordable or free it is a better idea for some people to work rather than study, but if it is affordable and free where you live and you *know* you want to study but you just aren't sure what, I would say, sure, take a gap year to try to figure some shit out, just watch it doesn't become a gap decade.

Good point. I assumed a US poster. And you are correct, a gap year to figure it out is an awesome point.

The best advice I ever got was: “Any direction is better than no direction.” There’s not really a wrong direction. You’ll probably not even be doing the thing you picked initially in 5 years, but once you’re moving it’s a lot easier to change direction.

What do you mean by 'thing' - give some examples

Literally anything. Learn a language! Pick up a new hobby! Travel somewhere! Write a book! Learn to paint! Play an instrument! Start a collection! Go out of your way to meet new people!

If you're not happy with your current life, do something else. No matter how big or small the gap is between the person you are and the person you want to be, now's the time to start closing it.

ToWhat if I'm happy with doing nothing.

All of those things mostly just waste more of the Earth's resources for selfish gain.

Doing nothing (like a monk) is better for the earths environment. Also not having kids is. And fasting, not buying things, etc.

I tried the whole chase money chase girls chase "cool experiences" thing and ended up finding it pretty toxic tbh you are just a slave cog in the machine trying to keep up with what everbody else tells you has meaning.

Everybody else thinks I'm the "crazy loser" for being this way, but all I see in them is negativity, hatred, depression, etc. I actually feel really good on a day to day basis lol even just being by myself doing literally nothing. Idk why people have so much trouble just being happy.

Learning languages, writing books, painting... are people being cogs in the machine? Like, it's nice that you're so happy, but I couldn't be happy in a world where art didn't exist in any form because "doing nothing" was celebrated.

Not exactyl what I'm getting at. People start to stress themselves.out about those.things and forget the fun they originally had, usually because of money or some competitive drive.to out do everyone else. They are behaving like animals in a food chain instead of living for the good of the universe around them.

Just doing them for fun is just meh it doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things, there are worse universal sins, although I do believe it is still wasteful, I am not perfect minimalist or monk either. I enjoy music and gaming and other hobbies myself, but overall I try to keep my environmental footprint to ultra low. And let me tell you a lot of people will hate you for the things you don't do, rather than the things you do, because they want you to be a part of the rat race. They will hate you for not being "normal" like they are, even though they are filled with toxicity.

A pure minimalist individual can be happy with zero stimulation but it is something I have worked on since childhood, may be born within don't know. It takes a special individual to be able to give up parenthood, food, and other basic instincts.

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my advice was basically to someone that want's to do nothing. Doing only what you wan't, compared to doing nothing, is a bit better I guess

I feel like you're not really getting the whole 'not wanting things' thing. I'm glad things have worked out for you but it seems like I can't find something to care about. So if I don't want anything I can't really do what I want. Though I suppose given my distaste for the situation I don't truly 'want to do nothing', I'm not sure if that's a distinction you meant to make.

If you're happy doing nothing, then /u/Portarossa's comment wasn't directed at you. That was a response aimed at an invitation for random things that might lead to inspiration or personal growth. If you're already happy, then you don't really need any of that.

most of those "things" are creative endeavors that enrich the lives of people living in this world.

what are we here for except to live and create and experience and try not to hurt each other?

Technically those are all unnecessary things that are not required for true enlightenment or happiness, under full minimalism.

Note that I never said I'm perfect myself as far as minimalism. I a using smartphone right now which uses lectricity, which uses resources. A true minimalist or monk wants to go entire life while using the least amount of world around him.

i haven't really heard the phrase "full minimalism" before, or heard of minimalists who abstain from even trying to have positive experiences. usually...minimalists seem to be about removing excesses so you can better appreciate the things that are meaningful. not completely stripping away meaning from life.

are there some great thinkers/works that you are modeling your philosophy off of? got any links? you might enjoy reading seneca, of the stoics (lived around the year 0).

it's also possible to...give back to the world. yeah, you can focus on having the least negative impact. but you can also try to have a positive impact, and actually add things to the world. offset some of the shit you're using and eating and breathing.

It's a shame you're getting downvoted because there is a lot of value in what you are saying however, I want to reiterate the last thing that /u/zonules_of_zinn said. You will not make a positive impact simply by abstaining from making a negative one.

Yes, most people live their lives in a selfish and wasteful way; destroying the environment, their own bodies and souls in the process. There is too much emphasis put on being a "productive citizen" and not enough on what we are actually producing. But you will not fix this just by not being a part of it. Nor by trying to educate the masses with reddit comments.

You may not like the world we have created but you are stuck with it because you need it. You need to be a part of society, because you are a human, as such you need other humans, you need purpose, challenges and even hardship, love and loss, growth. If you abstain from society, you will not impact it, it will change around you and you will feel more and more isolated as it does.

You have developed a unique perspective, and you have seen the error of our society. Use that knowledge as a shield as you make your way through it. So that you don't get sucked in to the rat race, but see it for what it really is and navigate it as you strive for a purpose.

It's great to know what you don't want to be, but you must start thinking about what you do want to be, both for yourself and for society. If all the enlightened lived in caves, the world would become a very dark place, indeed.

I'm in a similar situation and I feel like trying to go to a monstery, or any way of reclusion, too. My main concern is that it might not satisfy my family.

Once my family abandoned me for leaving my career, and being diagnosed as insane, I realized that it just does not matter. They will be toxic to themselves either way, I can't change them, best thing can do is try to negate their negative impact on the world by being purely minimalist. I wish more people would see this.

I see, you're writing down my thoughts. I really want to experience living in a different way. I also feel like you in a way that we are just crazily chasing money and relationships and goods and what's all that for in the end? Also destroying the planet in the process. It's rough.

Try out some intentional communities. They have many different hobbies, workshops, and even businesses being run on their land. So many things to learn in places like that.

the reason why people think you are a loser is because they see you as someone with no goals or drive.

To use your example, think of a monk. I had a coworker who as a monk, who spent years 16-30 ish walking the world searching for enlightenment. He spent 4 years in a cave in Australia at the end of it. The difference between the way people saw him living in a cave vs the son living in their basement is that for the monk there was an end state that required pursuit. When he returned, having failed, he was back at step 1 in his life but people thought it was an incredibly interesting story. Now he's newly married.

"Doing nothing" to help the planet isn't helping anything, because while you are doing nothing, other people are working tirelessly to fix things. You can walk past the litter on the beach or you can help pick it up, but simply pointing at it means nothing. Go join a conservation core, or if you are young and able become an environmental scientist. If you do raise kids raise them to be eco conscious. Follow your passions, even if that means going off the grid completely.

and are you truly doing nothing? I mean, you are posting on reddit right now. That requires a computer, internet, and electricity. If your version of doing nothing involves you living off either social safety nets or family members then you are just feeding off of someone else's work with no inclination to stop.

And if you are, then yes, you are a loser. Because being a loser doesn't mean trying and failing. Being a loser means never trying to begin with. And the moment you become a burden on someone else, either directly or through social security, you lose every right to complain about them being angry at you.

To round this all out, let's bring back my monk friend. When he was traveling the world he would often stop at houses begging for food. Depending on the culture they would give it to him. Sometimes he would work for his meal for a bit. When trying to fly home, airlines often have programs to help monks because they cannot handle money. Often they will use intermediaries to pay for the ticket, because monks cannot handle money.

Do you see what the difference here is? Why monks are respected while someone who does nothing, with no values or goals, who contributes nothing and only seeks to continue the life he lives at the costs of others are actively despised? Because ultimately every little bit of "nothing" that is done comes on the unwilling backs of others. You are no longer walking past the litter blindly or just pointing at it. You have become a hypocrite. And you can feel free to do that if you want but you must accept that the person waking up at 6 in the morning whose taxes go to pay your bills is going to feel slighted.

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Yeah so you’ve done your time then. If you are supporting yourself then you have the right to tell anyone you want to fuck off.

What a cynical mindset. How can you consider personal benefit selfish? To the grand scheme of the earth and its resources you are meaningless. Just another cell among millions. You dictate what you consider valuable. Not social media, not success, whatever that is. You need to find what you believe to be personal success, whether it be fitness, competition in whatever form, or whatever else you might find wholesome. Doing nothing is the worst possible thing for you as an individual to do over the course of your life. The greatest influences over our world needed education and passion to achieve what they achieved. Without those you are meaningless, not to the world but to yourself.

Maybe just surrounding yourself with better people whose machine you'd like to be a cog in.

Even good people can drive themselves to be unhappy by chasing greed and want.

how about we exterminate all humans from earth, that would help the environment more

i would be one of the first to volunteer for this, agreed lol

a thing, you will do this thing every day, work on it, read about it, learn about. every day for an hour for four hours. you will eventually be an expert. but the trick is, you gotta work on it. keep at it.

okay not all of this list is everyday things to become an expert in, some are just nice things to do that might make you feel good:

creative writing. running. drawing faces of strangers. how to train dogs. fixing cars. fixing things around your house. building electronics. making websites. cutting hair. cooking. baking. rock climbing. needlepoint. volunteering in old folks homes. volunteering in any non-profit around you that has good-sounding goals. you can master ANY academic topic if you keep reading about it.

Whatever you choose, just be sure invest enough time into it to make it (or the byproducts of learning it) one of your strengths and not just another bygone hobby.

The 'thing' you're looking for is to learn how to focus, to di down into the minutia and to reinvent the way you see the world from that experience.

If you work hard enough at a thing, you will gain a new perspective, and that (I think) is all anyone's ever looking for.

This is fantastic advice! And I'll show it's true with my life story so far.

I always loved tinkering with computers and software. So after high school I went to college for IT. Landed a 1 year internship halfway through the degree. Come to find out, IT was super unfulfilling for me so I quit it all!

A friend suggested I get my EMT. 6 months of working on the ambulance later, and I find out I freaking love healthcare! I'm now pursuing nursing and I couldn't be happier!

But through every stop along the way I've learned something. And it's helped me develop to where I am now. The fresh out of high school me wouldn't have been ready for nursing school, but the me today is.

In the words of Nike and Shia, "Just Do It!"

This is sound advice. I spent most of my late teens and early 20s in a relationship, worked a terrible job and became complacent. Relationship ended - I got fit, quit my job and started living for me and doing things I want to do. I've now climbed mountains, surfed oceans across the world, recently learnt how to rock climb in Thailand and learnt a second language. I've still not found anything I want to do but every day I meet someone who inspires me to try something new and I guess I'm holding on to a hope that one day I'll find something I enjoy doing and can make money doing. Currently looking into buying property to rent in the UK. I don't know a thing about it but I've got plenty of time to learn. Im 24

If you like it, keep doing it. If you don't, do something else.

This. If you aren't motivated by anything it is not because you are an inherently boring person. It is because you haven't found the thing that motivates you yet. Figuring out what you want to do with your life requires action.

Yeah I agree with what you are saying. I feel like this idea that everyone has a calling that they are just waiting to discover is pretty toxic. Just find something you are half way good at and dont mind doing for the rest of your life and commit to it. From my experience as you stick with it and get better at it you learn to like it more and more.

This. It’s a hard truth that succeeding at the small things—entry level job, responsible finances, being kind and professional—usually give opportunities for bigger things. I found that everybody, myself included, believes they work hard and do the right things... but there’s a big difference between believing it and doing it.

I’m not some “all-his-shit-together” guy, but I’ve gotten a lot farther and a lot more comfortable learning that hard truth and believing it.

Truuuu!! I worked in Hawaii last summer and this summer I’m going back to Colorado

I might even return to Hawaii for a couple of months then find a real job!!

I was so close to not applying but I am so happy I did

Most exactly perfect response I wish I'd gotten at 18.

So much this! I keep telling my (teenage) son extacly this.... DO something

Yes yes yes. I wish I had heard this advice too. Good reminder for now too

This is the one, just try everything

Totally saving this and stealing it. Thank you

My thing is stand up. I've only done it twice with long stretches of time in between. Every time Monday comes around I kick myself for not going.

This is how I got into pot smoking.

I am eighteen now, thank you so much for giving me the advice you wish you got, I’m going to take this 100% on board.

this what I'm doing and I'm 38. Went skateboarding last week, trying travelling alone soon, stand up and public speaking is fun, been doing more martial arts now.. It's fun.

Then do everything, anything. I'm particularly driven, but a lot of what helps me be driven is that I am willing to try everything once (or twice).

Anytime you see something and catch yourself thinking "ohh, that looks like fun / interesting / something I could do" and you could reasonably try it yourself, do it!

Either you stumble upon something you really like and can start honing in on becoming fantastic at it, or you're back where you started with nothing but a bit of time and maybe money lost. It's a small investment.

Work on improving every small thing in your life. Make yourself your biggest hobby. Find values that are important to you and try to practice them. Find good friends who support you and be good to them. Work on your family relationships. Make diet and workout goals to stay healthy. Make career goals and improve your skills so you can earn more money.

Also, when I say improve the small things I mean, keep your car maintained and spotless, your home clean and organized, get cloths and a haircut that you like to wear. Just focus on making tiny micro-improvements to your life all day everyday. Quit wasting time and fill it with improving/maintaining

I feel like a lot of the replies in this thread are too ‘be all you can be’ army bullshit.

IT’S OK TO NOT HAVE MASSIVE GOALS AND TO JUST WANT TO LIVE A CHILL, HAPPY LIFE.

So long as you’re not a freeloading piece of shit that burdens society.

My sister had no real goals her whole life and felt like she was underachieving. But she picked a random, chill career and set an overall goal to be financial independent. It was a goal she achieved and continues to achieve.

The rest of us siblings had extreme motivation to climb to the top of our field. There is a lot of stress that comes with that. Stress is not a joke.

To be honest, I know for a fact she’s the happiest out of all of us.

Just something to think about.

Keep trying things but be smart about it. It took me 3 companies and several different job to find what makes me light up. And all of that experience has allowed me to figure out what I like and more importantly don’t like

I've been there, and I'll third what the other two have said, just do something.

You'll naturally follow your interests in the decisions you make along the way, so it doesn't matter where you start.

Try something..anything.. And if you don't like it try something else. Everything is temporary. The days of having one career your whole life are over. I've had four different ones so far. Also travel gives you a lot of perspective on the world you can't get any other way. Also www.designingyour.life

I don't know how you whippersnappers go on with that attitude. I guess its the way to go nowadays. I'm not ancient (GenX) but I've got 15 years in the company, looking at probably 25 more. But pay is great for my area, 401k, pension. Lots of younger people bouncing in and out. I'm not nearly in such a rush to give up my years and retirement to start over somewheres else.

I do totally agree that travel gives you lots of perspective, and having different jobs DOES give you a better idea of what you want and need out of life. But I wish I hadn't waited near 10 years after graduation to get serious and start thinking long term.

I'm in the same boat as you, man, but probably older. I can't tell you how to fix it, but I can tell you that coasting will not get you what you want. I'm stuck in a job that makes me miserable for ay least a few years while I try to get my life in order.

To tell you what I wish I'd done five years ago? Think about everything you've done in your life, anything you've enjoyed. Find something that made you happy when you did it and start there, work at it. Even if it doesn't work out and you do something else, you'll be very happy that you did something rather than just jerking off for years.

If you are frustrated, just start doing things. The great benefit of being young is that you can choose the wrong path, reiterate on your values, and choose a different one. As long as you are learning something - even if you are just learning that you hate something - it’s worth the time. It’s important to learn about yourself. Set short goals, and reevaluate once the time has past. Take a cue from business and focus on things in two week “sprints”. Set some goal like “learn to yodel” for two weeks out. After two weeks of trying, reflect on how far you’ve come. Determine if you’ve accomplished your goal, and if not, determine why not. Did I not accomplish my goal because I underestimated the difficulty? Did I not find satisfactory methods of learning? Is it worth spending more time on? Etc. etc.

If you don't know what you want, just do something. Anything. Get good at it. Be awesome at it. Other doors will open because you're visible.

Check out r/financialindependence . Find a job where you like the co-workers well enough and save half your income. Lots of opportunities will pop up. Nobody knows what they want to do right away, but building a nest egg will help with whatever you decide. It could be a lot of different things throughout your life

You just choose. That's how life is.

There's no big "Aha" moment. You choose something and you start working towards it. If you find that, in the pursuit of that thing, you don't really want it, you simply pivot and choose something else.

Being able to take action initially is where it all begins. Being able to identify that something is not serving you, regardless of the amount of time or effort you have already "sunk" into it, is priceless.

Take time with your decisions and be methodical as opposed to being driven by momentary emotion and motivation. Those things will never last. They're both temporary states.

What do you like? What inspires you? What makes you feel strong feelings? If you're smoking a lot of pot or something like that, you may be repressing some of that.

Take the time to think very hard about your life. What you want, what your strengths are, what you enjoy doing. Be honest with yourself. The more and longer you think, the more a direction, or set of directions will start to manifest.

That was my mistake. I thought I would stumble into greatness automagically in my 20's, just by working hard in a bunch of random directions. But, like everything else, finding a good direction takes effort. But you have to accurately assess yourself.

When I had my first child I truly put thought into my direction in life. It pays off big. You have to spend time going in some direction every day. You can be aimless, or the things you do can take you closer to your goals. Even bad days take you closer to where you want to be. Knowing what you want is extremely powerful.

I know choosing can be difficult and it is. But 'not choosing' is what will be the end of you. The thing that you're wondering about, whether it's the thing you want to do for the rest of your life or whether it's really what you want to get into! Ya, that thing. Go do that. Practice it and become the best at it. Forget about the second thoughts, don't worry whether it will work out or not. If it does, great. If it doesn't, you'll have the time to get into something else and the experience from this thing to do better the next time, and you weren't wasting your time, which you would have done if you were still trying to decide

At 28, I now realize that I can most definitely coast through the rest of my life much like I have been and live a "pretty okay" existence. That's terrifying to me because I also know that anything I have ever put actual effort into has (at the very least) led me to pursue other paths I hadn't previously considered or thought were available to me. I almost always forget to double down on these moments. I have this shitty belief that when I accomplish something beyond what is simply required it must be a fluke. Now I'm practicing self-parenting and learning that I can offer so much more to people. Putting a concerted effort into anything at all (whether it be smiling, reconnecting with old friends, cleaning out the basement, recording the song I've been working on, uploading that song so other people can enjoy it, following up on the job application in person, taking the class even though the commute is a bitch, etc.) has never ever been a waste of my time. Avoiding things and trying to justify why I avoided them in the first place has been the biggest steaming pile of shit fucking waste of time of my 20s.

Fellow young and hungry here, start by making a list of things you would like to do. Sports, music, designing chairs, anything you see and think 'huh, that's cool'. Then narrow down your selection to 7 items, assign them to days of the week, and every day practice that day's item for at least 20 minutes

You can always find 20 minutes to spare a day, and while it won't be fast progress, it'll give you a taste of each item on the list. Don't like something? Replace it with something else, or replace it with an item you already like doing so you're practicing it several times a week

Eventually, you'll be at a point where you only do a few things, but you do those things regularly and you can confidently say you don't want to practice the others

See this is contradictory. You can’t say your hungry but have no ambitions. You’re realizing the potential exists but have now plan to achieve. That is the most important part. Everyone has potential. Execution is key.

It is tough but try to find something you care about and go for it. Or at a minimum start work on an associates degree so once you find something you care about you can peruse a degree in that direction. Or work on building potential in a way that allows you to take a direction once you pick one.

There is a lot you can do to set yourself up without knowing exactly what you want. And you can also take steps to try things out. Go learn about something.

Im an engineer and we have even had kids shadow is for a day to see if they like it. You can go research different paths. Make a plan to come up with a goal or learn.

I agree with most of what you said, but it is not contradictory. Hunger doesn't have to be aimed, I'm terrified that I'll live a mediocre, unfulfilled life. I need to achieve something, accomplish something that makes me feel like I've earned the gifts I was given.

I just don't know what that will be.

Are you passionate about anything? What gifts do you have?

I have chases two passions as an adult. I went to a music college and ended up a professional sound engineer for several years. I did what I set out to do and made it. Then I decided to do something else. I was always decent at math and my job made me realized I liked creating technology so I went back to school for engineering. And I have been an engineer for a few years now. And also I am lucky that what I Ike is a decent paying career.

My point is your passions may change. I still worry if I will have a fulfilling life. So I like doing things I care about and pursuing jobs I will enjoy and feel accomplished with and be proud of. But unfortunately those anxieties may never go away. I still consider if I did the right thing. I find myself getting an itch about 5 years into any career that “hmm maybe I should do something else” it’s happening now. But I try to make sure I live life, and luckily I now make enough with my spouse where I can afford to travel and try new things out that way.

But your passion may not be your career. Maybe you can feel fulfilled by having a job that allows for lots of travel. Or you find a job that is in an area where when you’re not working you can go do what you want. (For example I have been considering finding a job near mountains so I can ski)

So you could always just look for a decent paying job that isn’t as demanding (I e rarely asks for more than 40 hours a week and has decent vacation time) so you have plenty of time to go do the things you want. So that’s another path to take. It’s something to do if you can’t find a passion.

Anyway now I’m just typing too much. There are options. I think the biggest mistake would be to not do anything. We have all been there. Sometimes you need to just pick a direction and go just to find out what you like. You dont know until you try and sometimes something you think you would like you end up hating.

Serve others it’s the only way to be happy you can build a fortune and never be happy

Hey man. I'm in college. I kind of feel the way you do, but I gave myself the goal of going to med school, so I'm just tumbling through life but in a general direction. I think this is the way to go.

Do what you love man

When choosing what you would like to pursue, it’s wise to eliminate pursuits that you cannot give to others with. Giving makes us happy, and if we can give to others in a rare and excellent way, we will be happy and useful and bring joy to others.

Just start out by being the best you you can be. Doors will open and close throughout the entirety of your life as long as you're looking for them, but if you refuse to open the front door you'll never leave your house so to speak.

I was you, I'm 32 now and still in the same position. Just do something now, you can change your path later. It's easier to go to school when you're young and probably still have family to lean on.

I crossed a lot of things off my list because I thought they were beneath me, I wish I just picked something.

To a large extent excellence is its own skill regardless of what you're excellent at. You can transfer it later to a new topic a lot easier than if you have never really tried at something before.

Its why there are people whose resume goes like Special Forces -> Doctor -> Astronaut.

Or why top sales positions that can have you earning $300k+ like to recruit people that played sports at a high level in college.

Just pick something and consider it "being great" practice rather than football /engineering /dancing /whatever practice.

God I feel this on a deep personal level... like, way to explain it to a 'T'.

This was me 12 months ago. I just sat and thought for ages about what would make a life worthwhile. Write down a massive dream, something you'd be proud to have left behind. Then slice it up into smaller goals and start the journey towards it. If you're not aiming for anything, you won't be going anywhere. 12 rules for life by j.peterson is insightful also.

Eyyyy me too. I don't know what I want. Not even beginning with real goals and ambitions but I'm so jaded that I don't even really exhibit any want for simple things like food I would want to eat. Trying to get out of the auto pilot jaded mindset but it's kinda hard sometimes.

Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

Keep searching. Or get old at settle. Either way it’s really not that bad. Hopefully you end up somewhere decent.

This is so fucking me. I have started to learn programming (while getting a grade on teaching which I enjoy but I wonder if such a dead end job will satisfy me for ever) since I have too many free time because teaching grade is easy as fuck and I don't even need to go to class. Tbf the only times I go is for being with my friends.

Let me know if you find something.

I have felt that same feeling. Try picking up an instrument. You will become frustrated with it early on because there is definitely a learning curve to all instruments, but being even moderately proficient at it is incredibly satisfying.

I didn’t know what I wanted until last year, I realised my dream is to fly but I worked out I’m at least 6 years away from thinking any such dream and it’s extremely demotivating and depressing.

My advice is to try new things. I'm in my twenties and didn't know what I wanted to do. I got so upset at myself and the fact I was basically stagnant at my computer chair all the time instead of working towards something depressed me to hell; That and the fact that I was working a dead end job at a massive retail chain. It all came to a head and I couldn't stand it anymore. I spend to my local community college and talked to an advisor. It was slow going and awkward at first because I was tripping on my words and could offer no help in deciding any classes because I had no idea what I wanted to do. That didn't stop me from sitting there and talking to her while we looked through what the college offered. Since I didn't know what I wanted to do I settled for a trade certificate program for stick welding. It was only a semester and pretty cheap, and it was at least something to start. Turned out I liked it a lot, so I tried a few other things, this time just a few classes: chemistry, math, and machine processes. Turned out I liked those as well. At first I played around with the idea of becoming a chemist or chemical engineer (which I think would still be enjoyable for me), but then I got my current job in an industry and found a love for machinery. Because of my choice to try things and to never turn down a good opportunity to learn something new, or at least try my hand at it, I now have a job I'm happy with while I go to school to become a mechanical engineer. Plus once I get my degree, my boss said he will move me to machine design/maintenance and give me a raise, so always be ready and willing to jump on opportunities and to try new things.

P.s. sorry for the long post

Check out 80000hours, it's a great website!

I feel like a lot of us feel this way. In particular, all of the high-achievers I went to school with (myself included.) We had so much success thus far, still have so much potential, yet we have no clear path. It’s tough!

Even though I did well in school, graduated college, became a quarter millionaire in my early 20’s and own a business, I don’t know what else I want in life. All this success and then BAM! The mid twenties are here and despite having so much success, I still don’t know what else I want in life. Coasting is my worst fear.

Hey, I suggest watching the H3podcast with Jordan Peterson (the second one... ep. 48?). He touches on this and explains it amazingly.

all these replies are dumb as fuck. The only constant people want throughout life is money. Don't just pick anything, pick something that will make you large amounts of money, and focus on that thing. CS or Banking are two good starting points

counter point from dumb as fuck redditors: money isn't everything

my counter point: you're not wrong, but statistically speaking, it's the most likely best pursuit

Have you considered the military?

This was me until my early 30's, had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. I made a decision around turning thirty to just throw myself into things that I thought would interest me. I'm talking in a social sense here; community organizations, volunteering stuff mostly. Without telling too long a story, one thing led to another and I wound up volunteering for a local ambulance service. Was doing minor sports events, just manning first aid stations and the like. I was noticed by the professional arm of the ambulance provider for my keenness and invited to apply for a traineeship that they only do two or three times a year. Basically, studying to be a paramedic whilst working on an ambulance with a qualified paramedic. That was sixteen years ago, I have been full time since early on and doing a job I enjoy and pays well. I had no idea prior to any of this that it would be something I wanted to do.

In short, I would stay don't stop looking - broaden your vision, get out and try different things - you never know where it might lead.

Same position as you, I have a lot of interests but no passions. I've been doing online courses on a range of things from writing fiction to economics and programming for years now and nothing has really stuck. But I continue to do them hoping I stumble across something I'm motivated enough to stick to. The way I see it, as long as I'm being productive and learning everyday then it's better than watching TV and doing nothing.

Find something that bothers you and make it your responsibility to fix it. You'll fill up your time real fast.

The other poster's advice about picking something, anything, is good because pushing yourself, trying, focusing on a thing - these are all skills. It sucks to find a thing you do want to work on and realize you don't have any practice working hard at a thing. Your brain gets used to coasting.

Source: Spent too long in a job that bored me. Now pushing hard to build up better skills and habits in a job/career I care about.

Commenting along here to keep updated with the comments you receive. Fellow young lost person

Im in the same boat. Need some advice for this badddddd

dont wait for vocation to hit you like religion. i coasted early, in my late teens, lived on my own at 16, cooked for a living making 7.25 an hour and living out of motel rooms. at that point i realized i didnt want to be poor. looked around, did a simple roi analysis, what industry made the most money with the smallest upfront of time and money. taught myself to code. that was 20 years ago.

i had the itch to do other things, like write a book, so ive written 7 books in my field so far. i thought i might like to teach, so i spent 13 years as an adjunct professor teaching software development in the evenings.

don't wait for vocation.

I'm 30. The best advice I can offer you is this: don't pursue your passion. This is some of the worst advice I hear as an adult. This is ultimately a quick way to lose joy in doing the things you love.

Instead, go into a career field that's hiring.

I'm 22 and in college. I agree. I love video games and would love to design games but I just can't do that all day everyday. So I went into general computer science. I love it! There's so many different things I don't think I'll ever be able to learn them all. Cisco, Windows, Macs, handsets, OSes, hardware, security.

Currently learning software development at a coding boot camp. Same... I don't wanna touch game development stuff. I love games too much to taint them with work.

You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.

That song gets more depressing every year

Once the line "you run and you run to catch up to the sun but it's sinking. Just to come up behind you again" hits me the way I assume it eventually will, I'm gonna stop listening to that song lol

The sun is the same in a relative way but you’re older Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

It’s one of the only songs I’ve ever heard I would consider beautiful.

Edit: other than that god damned clock orgy at the beginning.

The bells at the begging are very jarring, but I think that's the point of it. We need to wake up and live, or something like that.

I agree with that but still, the entire intro overstays it’s welcome by like two whole minutes. It’s baffling how long it is.

I disagree. It fits well in the album

Agree to disagree I guess.

I don't agree to that

I don’t agree with that

Listen to it on the entirety of the album. It's very thematic, you're being lulled into a false sense of security by the music, then it's FUCK YOU LIFE IS HERE, WAKE UP DIPSHIT!

Think about it: in a song about wasting time, they fritter away 2 minutes on an instrumental opening and another 2 minutes on a guitar solo, then the last line of the song is literally "thought I'd something more to say."

I’m gonna be honest with you here, the guitar solo is amazing and sounds great, the clocks and the monotonous sound of the intro do not. It’s my opinion that the intro ruins an otherwise fantastic song. I don’t really care about the context.

I think a lot of pink floyd is not meant to be listened to independently of the album, you kind of need the preceding song to coast into the clocks. There are only a few pink floyd songs I can think of that can stand on their own, like Comfortably Numb

I never before thought it was possible for an opinion to be wrong.

You really dislike the part before the singing starts? Its my favorite, just sounds great

I have to skip the very beginning. It kills my vibe entirely.

Like another guy said below, it's more thematic to the album and was just cut into that song instead of the one it follows. It's something that's kind of lost on Modern music that's driven by hits and single tracks

You can set it in iTunes to start at a specific time (02:28 for me) every time it's played. It's the only song I do that for.

But yea, the clocks and other sound effects are meant for the full album experience.

The bells definitely fit well in the context of the album but as a standalone single i see what u mean.

Does that mean that your goals always seem the same way away? That no matter how close you get to happiness, it is always just over the horizon? And when you get there, you realize that it was behind you all along, but you are too far away to get back, too old to do it.

I cried in a Pink Floyd laser light show when I heard that line. Laid back in a cinedome chair with snot nose because I had to stop freelancing and get an 8-5 to get what I needed and it hurt my soul.

The meaning is to try living a life where you don't get that feeling I guess

Hearing that line for the first time on acid REALLY changed my perspective on things.

I'm 19 and this song already scares the shit out of me

I wouldn’t stop listening to it. Maybe allow it to push you until the song is no longer relevant to your life.

As someone who is in law school at 40: fuck it. At least I'm running now.

Yo! That's awesome. I'm 30 and debating whether I wanna get a bachelors degree still or not.

Other than the crippling debt it's totally worth it!

It upsets me. Used to enjoy it because "you are young and life is long and theres still time to kill today", only 23 now and don't want to listen to it anymore.

You're still young though. Use it as motivation to do things.

Seriously. No time like the present.

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

You're still so young and have so much time ahead of you! The same goes for other redditors in their 20's (or even 30's).

I finished school at 23 having never lived outside my hometown in Maryland. My university was literally 10 minutes from my parents house and it was good (UMBC), but it felt like I hadn't really done or accomplished anything.

I was a bit depressed with my field too (physics) and decided to do something new. I went and taught English in Japan, which was an amazing experience, but also a tough adjustment in terms of culture shock, being self-reliant, and living in a rural area in a faraway country. You can check out my ancient, abandoned, cringey wordpress blog if you're curious. Eventually, I adjusted and after a while I fell into that 'things are easy, what am I doing with my life?' funk people often get into in their 20's. The thing that pushed me, really, was finding out my professor Dr. McMillan died, possibly by suicide. He was the nicest of my professors and had offered to write a recommendation for me when I came home, but I guess he was unhappy.

So I came back to the states and worked while I tried to get back into school for physics (which was tricky). It was depressing, part-time work at Starbucks and Barnes and Noble, a time in my life where OKCupid dates sort of scoffed and looked bored even hearing about what I was doing with myself ('Oh, you work at the book store for like... mininum wage...'). But I did it! Now I'm finishing my PhD in Hawaii and I've got a book published on Amazon (not a big deal at all cause anyone can do it, but still feels good).

So I mean, my point is, at 23 you can still do anything: move somewhere new, change career directions (more than once, even!), start a new degree, meet and date new people, try new things and have accomplishments. If I can do it, anyone can. Similarly, just because some people luck out at 19 and become actors or famous musicians doesn't mean our lives are lame. Even the actors and musicians start to feel burned out and sad after a while and have health problems. Look at poor Avicii. Fame and money don't necessarily make people feel accomplished; sometimes such things even feel hollow.

So here's what I'm saying: you're young. You've got potential. You're clearly literate and know how to type and use a computer. Many opportunities await for those who dare to take them! And the thing is, what starts as a small idea ('maybe I'll apply to this program? My friend tried it...') can drastically change the course of your life. Sorry for the autobiography, and good luck!

edit: typos and stuff.

TLDR: Your life isn't set in stone at 23 just because you've finished college. Your best years don't have to be over with and you can have many more adventures!

I went to UMBC, too. I live in southern Maryland, so it wasn't too far for me. I'm in the process of moving to Florida. I am excited to start this new chapter of my life, good luck to us both!

Yeah. They're talking to you, you know.

Hey man, I'm 23 as well. I've been through times that made me depressed listening to this song, but also through times that this song made me happy (because I wasn't wasting my days). In the end, the decisions are yours to make and the actions are yours to take. Just do it.

Saw Roger Waters last October at the age of 74 perform this song. Couldn't help think how crazy it must be for him, every year watching his life go by. He's been performing that song for nearly 50 years.

I would think he feels pretty good about his life tho

What wong is that?

I thought it was depressing when I was home from college during the summer, but man.. fuck

You cannot just say "that song" without mentioning the title...

E: Nvm, now I have the time to look it up, Time by Pink Floyd.

You think it's bad now, just wait until you hear it 10 years from now.

We're just two lost souls

Swimming in a fish bowl

Year after year

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking

Racing around to come up behind you again

The sun is the same, in a relative way, but you're older

Shorter of breath.

And one day closer to death.

Every year is getting shorter

Never seem to find the time

Plans that either come to nought or half a page of scribbled lines...

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way

The time is gone, song is over

I'd hate to be that rabbit too, though. Works never done, forget the sun, go dig another one? Which is worse, vegging for ten years cause you think you have time, or constantly working and doing as your told, sacrificing your precious time under the sun? I guess somewhere in between?

Fuck, I never noticed the correlation between those two. Like, right next to each other on the album, too.

This is the third time I've come across this lyric on reddit in the past week.

It's repeated everytime someone mentions wasting their youth

And it's exam season

In that case I shall provide you with one you haven't seen as often:

Man's youth is a wonderful thing:
It is so full of anguish and of magic
and he never comes to know it as it is, until
it has gone from him forever
-- Thomas Wolfe

I was thinking it was pretty pretentious and you just put exactly into words why I can't stand seeing it here

The universe is trying to tell you something.

Could someone post the actual song title rather than just commenting about how good the song is

Pink Floyd - Time

Why not go one further, and give them the actual [song] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwYX52BP2Sk)

put the lyrics into google and search. it would take you literally 5 seconds. That's shorter than the amount of time you took to make a whiny bitch comment

Arguably one of the best songs ever created.

Fight me.

I'm definitely not going to fight you on that one. DSOTM is just a perfect album.

It really is a classic in several ways. Aside from artistically the technical achievement (quality of the recording) is amazing. Absolutely beautiful recording.

Mate I'll fucking massage you over that song f'real.

In my opinion wish you were here is the superior album. I prefer Time and Us and Them to all of wish you were here, but On The Run and Money spoil dark side for me.

Linkin Park - In The End is better ^^^^/s

Justin beiber is the greatest fight me

A radio station in my city held an album tournament through an online vote a couple years ago. The winning album got played in its entirety with absolutely no breaks from start to finish. I nearly got into a shouting match with my buddy because he voted for The Wall instead of Dark Side of the Moon in the final round. But then he said “Dark Side IS the better album but The Wall is twice as long. When else are they going to play the entire Wall without stopping?” That is probably the only time in my life I could ever forgive someone for voting against DSOTM.

What won?

The Wall.

Yassss did they actually play the entire thing?

Minus the curse words but yep!

Not arguable, it is one of the best songs ever. I'll fight with you.

I mean I'm inclined to agree but I one could say it's an indulgent, overlong, navel-gazing pity party of a dude freaking out just because he's turning 30.

No, I'll back you up.

The irony is, is that I spent most of my 20's getting stoned and singing along.

Every year is getting shorter

Never seem to find the time

Plans that either come to naught

Or half a page of scribbled lines.

You know, I listen to that album every once in a while and never knew those were the words.

Holy shit I was just listening to this for the first time and thinking 'too real' as it pertains to my life.

I feel like that song will play during my suicide a decade from now if I don't fix some shit

Now's the best time to start. Don't wait until tomorrow friend.

You can do this.

It's funny to me you quote that, since a large part of the album is mocking the WHOLE rat race. It's not about "starting young" in your career, it's about finding a meaning to it without falling into the illusion that your vocation will magically give it meaning.

The album mocks the rat race. And it mocks "money for money's sake."

It also mocks aimless indecision.

Although everyone brings their own meanings to a song, for many of us this song seems to be saying, "whatever accomplishments and meaning and companionship and vision you hope to see in this lifetime, getting started now is often better than regret later, even though regret is an unavoidable part of the human condition (at least for those with reasonable self-awareness)."

Man. This one hits home. One of my favorite teachers used to read this to us almost weekly and it took way too long to make sense. Almost 10 years to be honest.

Cool how I understand another level of these words now that I'm getting older. And by cool I mean depressing

Reading through this thread and this song starts playing shortly after I pass your comment. Creepy... or the ultimate sign?

I credit Pink Floyd for changing the direction of my life in a positive way. This song (Time) especially.

Fuck yes, what an incredible song with a really essential meaning.

"You run and you run to catch the sun, but its sinking, racing around to come up behind you again."

I've been listening to the great Pink Floyd every day lately. It's the first band I really loved, that my dad got me into. And I thought about this line the other day and just how "time"less that song really is. And to see this comment right here, well fuck, man. Killer lyric.

Ticking away, the moments that make up the dull day- Fritter and waste the hours in an off hand wayyy

I painted these lyrics on my curtains when I was in middle school.... now I am 29. Fuck.

Listening to this song gives me a mini crisis every time. But I still listen to it because its so good.

/r/pinkfloyd

r/unexpectedpinkfloyd

Fuck man, have a gold

You're gonna go far

You're gonna fly high

You're never gonna die...

HOME! Home again!!!

If you haven’t heard the Greensky Bluegrass cover, titled “Time> Breathe Reprise>”, you should give it a listen. Puts a different twist on it, that I really personally love.

I haven't heard it, but I'll make a point of checking it out.

I do already have several sets of bluegrass covers which I like.

Among them is Hayseed Dixie (who play many AC/DC covers) and (from a band I can't recall the name of) a bluegrass cover of Snoop Dogg's "Gin and Juice" which I like.

The Infamous Stringdusters have a couple of EPs of covers. They do a great cover of Fearless on the first one.

Poor Man's Whisky covers the entire album. It's called Dark Side of the Moonshine. They did few things on it I didn't like, but it's a good listen overall.

I loved this song so much and listened to it as a kid thinking "that won't be me" and it definitely is.

Hey man, good news is: it doesn't have to be.

Thank you. This was really good to read

Good lord, just reading that gave me goosbumps

Omg I'm 31 and that song speaks to me so much as it did at 13 when I discovered dark side the first time

It's interesting to think that probably somewhere in different places in the world today a 13 year old and a 71 year old both jammed out to that song.

The 13 year old for perhaps the first time, the 71 year old for perhaps the thousandth time. And they both probably brought slightly different perspectives to it.

Hopefully, the 71 year old is thinking, "It's been a great run so far. I didn't totally blow it. I think I'm going to go plant a tree, and start learning a foreign language. Also, I think I'll play this song for my 13 year old granddaughter and see if it speaks to her as well."

Honestly my life has been great I've felt like I have wasted very little time. I have a coworker who's 62, never married, bellow me on the totem pole by several ranks despite having worked there much much longer and a whole host of other ways life has passed him by. Dude has an inoperable diagnosis that will end his life. So incomplete. Time came on the radio and I saw him fighting back tears. It was hard for me to watch.

Good guy, but he chose to indulge in the present tense his whole life and is leaving with next to nothing to show for it

This so much, I was listening to DSOTM the other day, I'm in my 30's now, and realised that I wasted nearly all of my 18-30's.

Doing much better now though, but those lyrics really hit home.

Some of my favorite lyrics ever. Glad I heard them while I am young.

[deleted]

In response to that thought, you deserve some lyrics from Stevie Nicks:

When it rains
The sea changes colours
But the sea
Does not change

I guess it's fair.

And then one day, you'll find

Ten years had got behind you

These lines changed my life during my first acid trip. I remind myself everyday

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking. Shorter of breath, and one day closer to death.

These words have haunted me for years and I'm only 30. PF is the greatest imo

I knew it was Time lyrics before I read your comment! Great song

My mom quotes this a lot. I'm still 18 but I don't want this to be my life

This song kills me. I love it so much but it’s harder and harder to listen to

Woah what happened to the top reply to this?

All I can guess is that someone overzealously reported it as off-topic (even though that's allowed for non-toplevel posts) and a mod or automod nuked the whole thing from orbit.

What song is that

"Time" by Pink Floyd.
It's from The Dark Side of the Moon album.

I know Dark Side of the Moon is like this ubiquitous album but you made me realize I've never listened to the whole album through. I got really drunk last night, shut off all the lights and put on some headphones and just jammed away to it and it was like a religious experience. Thank you for that

I’m 28 and 18 feels like it was only a year ago... this is so true!

I've been writing a paper on that whole album and every time I have to get to that song it hits me right in the gut..

Now I have to go listen to the whole album!

Gives me shivers every time

Is this a quote or something?

This verse was one of the things that motivated me to go forward. It was easy to see the path I was on was headed right to the same realization as the song writer had

The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older

You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today And then one day you find ten years have got behind you No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.

Shut up, u/MathPolice

Does it hit a little bit close to home?

Lmao, you'd wish...

In that case, what on Earth made you suddenly decide to respond to a four month old post? And in such a hostile way?

Did you think, "Man, those three lines of lyrics posted four months ago have really been irritating me and preventing me from thinking of anything else for months. Today is the day I'll finally tell her to 'shut up' and then I'll be able to clear my mind and sleep blissfully at last"?

I just found your name to be super vexing 🙄

Ah, that's understandable.
Sorry about that.

I started out correcting the incredibly frequent order of magnitude problems and so forth that I saw on reddit (people not understanding the difference between a million and a billion, etc.).

But now I don't see those kinds of mistakes very often anymore, so my posting is often not very math-related.

This song sends me into a panic every single time.

This triggered memories of going to the Pink Floyd Laser Light Show at the planetarium in Vancouver back in the nineties. I recall being in the waiting area before the show, looking around at all the other folks who are just as high (if not higher) than yourself, all trying to keep their shit together until the show starts. With that in mind, my answer to the OP's question, would be to miss going to the PFLLS high AF!

Best album ever!

I saw this quoted for the first time yesterday; on Reddit. Now I see a quote it again, today, in a different subreddit. And you know, this is exactly what I've been doing the past 10 years of my life. I'm going to use this spooky coincidence as motivation. Change is hard, but I don't want another 10.

guitar solo intensifies

Listening to this song as soon as I started to read through this thread. This stanza started as soon as I read this comment, Surreal timing

What’s this from?

When I was 17 I carved these lyrics into a grandfather clock I made as a woodshop project and holy fuck did this comment just set me back in time

There have been celebreties smarter and younger than me since I was 20... There's ALWAYS someone better than you somewhere in the world, thought I admitt they pop up more frequently the older you get.

This has never been truer than looking on Instagram and seeing all these rappers. I listen to hip hop but I have no idea when face tattoos became the standard! And who the fuck is 6x9? Hold me I'm scared.

fuck 6ix9ine he a pedo

What? Proof?

there’s footage of him slapping like a 13 year old girls ass while his homie pipes her down go look for it, well not it but like you can look up articles on it

pipes her down

....what does that mean

use some basic contextualization skills

As I upvote this comment I'm mentally picturing you as Samuel l Jackson yelling "context clues motherfuckers use them"

lmao gotta love pulp fiction

Ok fine now it’s more obvious than when I had barely woken up alright?! Condescending prick

lol sorry, post nap confusion can be a bitch i understand

Lol now I feel bad for calling you a prick ugh internets confusing my emotions, sorry. Honestly in the haze of my waking up i was like “...piping down...is that like vaping?” Lol. Plus it seemed way too depraved to imagine doing things to a 13 yo, let alone be in company of someone doing it :/ why is that fucking pedo not in jail???

haha i feel kinda bad now for being a dick just tryna be funny. you seem like a decent guy. the post nap confusion always gets to me when i open my texts after waking up. i don’t know all the details but i’m pretty sure he’s in the middle of an ongoing trial i don’t care enough to look it up tho but you can if you do.

Haha I’m a W O M A N, suspend your disbelief!

Hope the trial delivers proper justice. I feel old cos I don’t get the whole trashy millennial rap genre with kids that have facial tattoos at 17 and dreadlocks when they’re white etc, I don’t even know what the genre is called I’m that out of touch.

lol can’t be assuming genders in 2018 i guess. i’m 17 myself and it’s hard for me to believe it as well. it’s called mumble rap and most of my friends and i listen to it ironically or at parties just bc they’re fun and stupid but everybody hates 6ix 9ine

MUMBLE RAP! I may not have kids but I feel like I’m putting the MUM in mumble rap

I like that one Gucci gang song tho I’ll put that on blast any day

oh god that was a disgusting pun, but yeah like i said they’re stupid as fuck but they can be pretty fun to bop to

I love it I got read by a 17 yo today! Lol. Enjoy your parties but have fun responsibly, grandma out

haha i will thanks for the advice, it was nice talking to you although now i am confused because i thought you said you’re not a mum.

pipes her down

Fucks her (well in this case rapes her). Not sure why you were downvoted, I can see how that coule be confusing not knowing the term

He's a Ronald Mcdonald looking bellend. The personification to me of bad modern hip hop. Genuinely have no idea how people can like that shit. Kids are stupid though I guess.

[removed]

Not everyone is going to get famous and fame itself is a bit of a double edged sword.

What I like to do when I feel the way you are describing is look for older people who are living happy fulfilling lives. Many of them made major changes late in life and many adventures can still happen later on too.

Just do what makes you happy (even if it's after work) and try not to worry about other people appreciating it. Harder said than done but it's what I tell myself!

Be happy you're not a celebrity in your teens. Pretty sure they've got a worse life expectancy than nearly every other group out there.

realize also, especially in the music industry where you are likely seeing these "celebs"..

there fame, is often but a vapour. sure some go on to lead productive career FOREVER (fucking Drake) but most of them fizzle out in a few years and are back on the block selling dope when it dies off. or whatever is the trope for your particular genre of music.

on the other hand, a lot of the younger ones have also been feverishly pursuing their career for as long as you've done... well... almost anything intentionally. they do it to become famous.

So true. Peoples views are skewed by social media... All those "bands" that rapper is holding? The middle is filled with $1 bills... all those sick cars they drive around? Their producer owns those. That sick mansion they live in? Their producer pays for the rent.

Once their career is over, they're usually fucked and broke because they live lavishly because all their expenses are paid for. They save nothing as their career is at the peak then their money just dwindles from there on. There are documentaries about NFL players becoming broke after they stop playing because of this exact reason.

Do you know the name of such a documentary? I would be interested to watch it

Not NFL, NBA, but i found it was a good watch nonetheless.

Link

It’s easy to compare yourself to celebrities and feel down because they are so successful but you have to remember there are 7 billion people in the world, there’s probably at most thousands of celebrities/musicians/artists in the world which is not even close to 1% of the population.

According to Wired the proportion of celebrities in the world is somewhere between 1 in 2,000 and 1 in 10,000. I imagine this would be higher in western countries and in specific locations, like Hollywood.

Also depends how you define a celebrity since it's effectively just an individual person that many people will recognize. How many people need to know who you are before you're a legit celebrity? Impossible to say with any degree of accuracy.

But I do feel jealous of it, and also rueful that I never managed that, and also a tad bitter because usually they had opportunities that I never did.

Don't. When it comes to being super successful and famous there's so much you can't do about it.

To quote Bo Burnham on the matter:

"Take a deep breath, and give up. The system is rigged against you. Your hard work and talent will not pay off.

I would say don't take advice from people like me, who've gotten very lucky. Like, Taylor Swift telling you to follow your dreams is like a lottery winner saying 'liquidize your assets, buy powerball tickets, it works. You will get...' just, you won't."

Find something you can be good at and build a successful life. Don't chase stardom as your only life goal, it probably won't happen.

Definitely. A lot of celebrities just were born in the kind of family where they only need to ask nicely to get their own tv show. Meanwhile tons of talented people work forever on their passion and can just sorta manage to pay the bills. Fame cannot be a measurement of success.

Don't fall into the trap of judging your accomplishments in light of how other people are doing. The only thing that matters is, are you doing better today than you were yesterday?

And I'll need to get over it sooner or later, because seeing people who are younger than me, who made better decisions, is only going to get more common from here.

Ehh yeah but don't worry about that one. As soon as you start making better decisions for yourself, you'll see people left right and center that are making worse decisions! Not that that should make you feel that much better but hey

Im 18 and sometimes feel like this. But think of all the people we grew up with who have fizzled out. 18 and 19 is still fairly young imo. You just have to remind yourself not to compare yourself to younger successful people and just keep working hard at what it is you wanna do.

I think OP worded it poorly, but the idea is pretty insightful. Forget about just the basketball players and rappers for a second.

When you're in your early 20s, you can see succesful entrepreneurs, young politicians, tech founders, and yes actors, athles, musicians, etc. You're still young enough that you think to yourself "I can get to that guy's level when I'm older.

Then in your late 30s/40s when you see the next generation of those guys on TV, you realize they're way younger than you. Even if they're the same age as you, you have that sudden realization that "Damn, that guy started his grind 20 years ago to get to where he is". It's the onset of the realization that you may have wasted your opportunity that brings you regret. Yeah sure, it's never too late to start your own business or try to make it big. But the grind that's necessary is way harder when you have a Wife and kids and you have no energy unless you go to sleep by 9pm

I don't know. There's always people that make a change in their 30s and become successful.

Honestly, I think putting a time limit on success like that is more harmful than motivating.

Yes, getting in your head that you should do something is important, pressure isn't. In fact, if anything my tip for people in their 20s would be to avoid making life decisions that will tie them to mediocrity.

No need to become young Bill Gates, but don't tie yourself in mortgages. Kids and wife make shit hard but manageable. Financial responsibilities are just fucked.

Hey man, I'm not disagreeing. It's definitely possible with enough hard work and determination and a wee bit of luck. I'm just trying to explain what I think OPs mindset is. And I still think it's a good piece of advice, that if you really want to build towards something you should start it when the grind is easier in your 20s rather than thinking you'll get to it someday.

Is that really good financial advice though? If you're going to be living in the same city for years why not get a mortgage rather than piss away 30% of your income on rent?

It depends. Do you want to live there for the rest of your life (or at least until you pay off the mortgage.)

Sometimes people get way too caught up in finances. The goal of life isn't to retire rich. It's to enjoy life. And by enjoying I don't mean YOLO partying away your twenties with lots of drugs. I mean having fighting for your own goals. A house might be a sound financial decision, but if it ties you to a 9/5 job you dislike in a city you're starting to hate. Is financial stability all that great?

I think the freedom of rent is better in that regard. Imho until you know you're doing what you love and feel stable with the idea of keeping it up, you shouldn't buy a house.

This, of course, is all irrelevant if you can afford the mortgage without any trouble and could take a pay cut or spend a year without working and keep the house if you tightened up a bit.

I just hate seeing people miserable in their thirties, making a comfortable salary that would make most people miserable but still feeling like they don't have any freedom to change their life because their expenses rose to the level of their salary.

I mean, if I really wanted "freedom" now, which I guess would involve not having a full time job and wanting to perpetually move around, I could just sell up. Given how much I've already put into the mortgage I'd have a decent amount of money after the sale to show for it.

If I was renting this entire time not only would I have had less disposable income at the end of the month (i.e. freedom to buy/do what I want) I'd also have no savings because every month I was paying someone elses mortgage. I am not sure what world you live in where renting means that you are not tied to working to pay your way.

I also could afford a small pay cut or take half a year off work without missing a payment, but to what end? What would I do? Apart from have an unexplained period of unemployment on my record.

What I mean by freedom isn't not having a full time job. Is having the freedom to quit your full time job as soon as you'd rather do something else.

I also could afford a small pay cut or take half a year off work without missing a payment, but to what end? What would I do? Apart from have an unexplained period of unemployment on my record.

Well, if this is not your case, good for you. But some people, I'd even say most people, often realize that the company they chose to work for in their twenties (or rather, the one that accepted their CV and decided to hire them) isn't really what they'd dreamed of doing for the rest of their lives. Most of these people also find themselves in no condition to quit and find out what they'd rather be doing. If their bosses tell them to bark, they bark because they're dependent on their job. This seems, to me, the worst thing you could do to yourself in your twenties short of killing or permanently injuring yourself.

Musk was 28 when he founded X.com (that would become Paypal). If he was tied to a 9/5 job and a mortgage would that have been possible? Fuck no.

If Musk is just a genius then Tim Ferriss was 29 when he launched the 4 hour work week. Was he tied down in mortgage payments and steady job? Nope.

What I'm saying is that if you look at people that managed to become highly successful after their early twenties, you'll see that being tied to a 9/5 job paying out mortgages really isn't a common link between them.

Find your version of success and work towards that.

I don't need to make millions a year to live a happy and fulfilling life. I need to make enough to do the things I want with time.

I take at least one plane trip and one motorcycle trip a year. I plan in advance then do it.

I buy what I want because I make a plan to do it.

Not every day has to be a great day. Some days are just days. That is ok. Keep in mind most people don't post on social media about how they made their car payment today or how they felt ill. They post about their good days or a positive thing they got that day.

Find the positive. Find the good. Every day has it. Don't spend your life wishing you were somebody else. Spend your life making yourself into somebody you'd want to meet.

I might be misinterpreting the celebrity part, but as a 32 year old I believe the point was that when you're young, celebrities and icons etc are generally older than you. Eventually you start realising celebrities, top athletes etc are way younger than you and you've not done shit. It's more of a marker of how time has passed than any indicator of younger people being successful. Off the top of my head (no pun intended), Kurt Cobain was very iconic to me growing up. He died at 27. That's 5 years younger than me now, yet I still think of him as an older adult man compared to me. It's weird how you look at these things sometimes.

I'm almost his age. And I get completely weirded out by the thought that he was at the height of his career when he was way younger than me. When I look at his live performance and interviews, I think of him as someone much older person when in reality he was at my age or younger than me.

Those celebs almost always come from well to do families though so don't let that bring you down.

People should be more content with not being a celebrity. So few people get to do that, it’s a ridiculous thing to expect.

There were so many hardworking and eloquent Commonwealth games medallists my age this year. Can’t imagine myself in their position

As someone who has played guitar for years, I've met people who are better than me and younger, but I've also met people with decades more play time that honestly aren't at my level. Skill varies so much, but as a world-class bass player once said to me: it's all about how much time you put in. Do you want to be 2 hours a day good, or 5 hours a day good? That's all there is to it.

But who is the best? That’s what I want to know. The guy who excels at everything.

True! I learned that as well. That being said, sometimes it just pays to be successful in terms of supplying funds for yourself and your loved ones.

Being absurdly rich can help, but I don’t think it’s a necessity for happiness.

Hell, there are babies that are famous

That’s why you get nowhere comparing yourself to others. There’s always someone better than you and always someone worse. In my opinion the best you can do is always try to be a better person than you were yesterday.

When I was a teen, my dad used to call me “Captain Cruise Control.” He named me that because I would never study and consistently get 80s/low 90s

One day, he sat me down and said “We get it. You’re bright. You don’t need to work as hard to get good grades. But did you ever wonder where you’d be if you worked as hard as you could? You’d be unstoppable. Right now, you’re being beaten by people who are less gifted and more prepared. You’re wasting your talents. And that’s a tragedy.”

It was a huge wake up call. After that, I became very studious. I excelled in college and went on to law school. Every time I wanted to coast, I remembered his words. They stay with me to this day - even as an established attorney.

I have had the convo with teachers/professors, and I am still on square one... it sucks.

It only sucks for as long as you don't do something about it. It's easier said than done to change those habits, but it needs to be done regardless of the challenge.

Do you have a calendar? What helped me the most when I was in your shoes was to start planning ahead. I found most of my problems with procrastination and not completing assignments was my inability to see all the deadlines at once.

Also when you say you will do something say this instead: After I do X event I'm going to do Y task to accomplish Z goal. That way your goal is directed and you know what needs to be done to get there. It's a lot better than saying "I'll do my homework later today".

Assuming these are the same issues you're facing. YMMV

Saved, thanks for sharing

Question for you at the risk of sounding rude: was that one conversation really what gave you the wake up call? Because I feel like there has to be something more to inspire actual change/realization. I feel like many people don't care enough about their parents' opinion for it to make a difference.

It isn’t rude. I had a pretty solid relationship with my father, so I knew whatever he was saying was from the heart. For whatever reason, it all came together and made sense in that moment.

He didn’t yell or scream. He basically got the point across that he was proud that I was intelligent but that he was disappointed that I was wasting a natural talent.

What good is a natural gift if you don’t use its full potential?

Ah fuck. This one kind of gets to me :/ . I’m definitely a coaster.

This so much. I was always that kid. Barely had to try to ace tests, never showed up to school and still knew the material. Drove my teachers nuts. "Just do your homework and show up, youd have an easy 4.0". Non stop from every adult figure in my life. Cant even count how many times the word potential was thrown around. Now Im a dropout with a criminal record from high school. Ive got a good job, and Ill be back in school in the fall. I couldve done so much more though.

While it's true, I'd like to point out that this might give the false impression that "It's too late now" to some people.

Like the often-quoted Chinese proverb says, "the best time to plant a tree is twenty years ago. The second best time is now". Or like this wise guy on Black People Twitter said today

Yeah this is me. Problem was I never was hungry. I put off thinking future me would handle it. I might be fucked for a while.

This is a huger one than people might think. University made me realize that I was just a shitter in small pond, and that after being thrown into the sea stuff wouldnt be as easy anymore.

On the bright side when you study something you like spending hours and hours over books gets easier.

This was me, for awhile. Growing up I was involved in all the gifted classes in elementary and middle school, was taking advanced math classes in junior high and high school, everything just came easy. I didn't realize how much potential was there, and never did anything with it- never applied for scholarships, didn't bother with the SATs, lazily took a couple college classes while working full time after high school while helping out my family. It wasn't until I saw some of my high school classmates entering grad school that I realized how much time and potential I had wasted. No one gives a shit about your gifted classes in elementary school when you're 23.

Thankfully that was the punch in the gut I needed, and I enrolled in undergrad FT at 23. Now 32 and graduating med school in 6 weeks! It's never too late to get it in gear and work toward something bigger. Now whenever I hear people in their 20s and 30s saying "oh it's too late" when taking about college/grad school, a career change, or taking up a new sport or hobby, I always try to talk them out of that mindset. Life is about growing, changing, and learning until the day you die. And we're not dead yet!!

there are celebrities younger than you

that's a horrible freakin' example

That's like young people humble-bragging about their youth. IMO among the lamest humble-brags.

This is huge. People way over value potential and ideas. Execution is everything. Having potential is meaningless if you don’t do anything with it. Ideas are worthless until you execute them.

No one remembers who invented the car. But everyone knows who Henry Ford is and knows about the model T because he mastered the execution of manufacturing them before anyone else. He is known for skillfully executing something someone already invented.

Anything worth anything in this life takes a lot of work. Cold, lonely, boring work. When you get to the end, you'll have all this experience and knowledge about yourself and the world around you. And you'll be able to fully grab life by the horns. Youth is wasted on the young because we're told to just go out and "be free". Well work buys more freedom. If you take care of yourself, you'll have energy up into at least your 50s.

This hits me hard. I'm 29 today and fully going through an existential crisis. I'm in a good place and grateful for what I have but man. Did I fuck up somewhere along the way?

You absolutely did not fuck up. Advice on the internet is only advice. Take what you read with a grain. If you are happy where you are, that’s what matters. Some people strive to keep up with the joneses, and they get stressed trying to prove their worth. Some people don’t worry about that and are still very successful and happy with what they do. Menial tasks can be rewarding. I took my twenties and had a blast doing whatever I wanted working at awesome jobs and having fun doing it. Now I am also 29, and I finally figured out my passion. I will be starting school in autumn. I am so very happy I did not go to college right out of high school. If I started following my “dream” when I was 18, I would be some weed glass blower or something that I am totally uninterested in now. We all go through a crisis at some point, but as long as you are not an envious person, you will do just fine! Be happy you’re alive! Hell, my grandmother went to school in her 60’s and she was a very happy woman before that, she was just trying something different. It’s hard when you are being told by random people what youshould be doing, but that is their own opinion, regardless of how many updoots their comment gets. All those people up voting are sharing the same opinion, that’s all. By the way, I moved out of my mothers home when I was 19 and have done quite well with no degree or anything and I never once took a penny from my family for support. It was hard as shit at first, but damn it made me grow up quick. I wouldn’t have had it any other way. School will be hard, I wasn’t a bright kid, but I understand that, and I know it will benefit me in the end. I hope you’re well, don’t let these comments get to you too much and feel free to PM me if you need to talk

That's me.

I've been coasting on my potential my whole life, (that and my parent's). I know I want to do interesting and meaningful things, but my approach to life is so passive I don't end up doing anything. One year of Uni left and I'm having trouble focusing on class work because I'm afraid that I won't know what to do when it's all over, that this is all a big waste of time.

I was planning on finding a summer internship related to my degree this summer, but I ended up not sending out a single resume. I had my excuses, but in the end, I was just being passive and lazy. I'll end up working for my dad's construction company again because it's the easiest job for me to get, even though it is not even remotely related to what I'm studying.

And beyond that, I've got a bunch of hobbies that I put off to just browse reddit and YT and stuff. I've got some music production gear, and even took a course on it, but my keyboard sits collecting dust and piles of old homework. I've got all sorts of projects, music, games, video, software, just sitting idly on my hard drive.

I convince myself that, if I'm going to be productive, it should probably be for my school work, so I just end up here, on reddit, refreshing over and over again looking for more content to consume. I literally hardly even play video games anymore because its so much easier to just watch some youtube videos.

"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard."

That saying has pulled me through a lot. When I'm feeling overconfident, it's a reminder to keep grinding out. When I feel outclassed, I know I can pull through with enough effort.

To me, life seems to be 90% hard work and 10% 'natural talent' (for lack of a better phrase). Hell, sometimes half the battle is just showing up. IMO, people often waste way too much time worrying about if they have the 10% (or relying on it) to ever get a chance to find out what they can accomplish. That only comes with perseverance and a lot of hard work.

there are celebrities younger than you and you find yourself wondering where to even get started.

This part got to me just yesterday. There were always celebrities younger than me, but it never really hit me. So when I looked up a celebrity yesterday and saw they were younger than me, it kinda bummed me out. Like man, this person is younger than me and is so much more successful. It's stupid to get bummed out about it, but it still felt kinda shitty.

Eh the celebrity one doesn't really get to me. Sure, a lot of them very talented. But all of them are waaaaay more lucky than they are talented.

I'm guilty of this. Always worked hard enough to be better than my peers. When I moved to a city that had more of a international influence I realized I was a dumb fuck.

Learn to code, kids.

Fuck fuck fuck duck this is me. 27 and feeling like a nobody so hard...

Yeah but also according to basic statistics only 1% of ppl can be in the top 1%.

Sure, but then there are the top 2%, and top 4%, and top 15%, and top 20%. The top 50% of everyone is three billion and eight hundred million people you've beaten at a given thing. That's a lot of people. You have so many percentages to aim for, why give up before you've even begun climbing?

If you aim at the top you at least have a snowballs chance in hell of getting there.

If you just coast on what you have you're guaranteed to stay exactly where you are, slowly watching your potential wash away in a wave of apathy.

Sure thing. My point is more that people probably shouldn’t base their goals and self worth off of how they compare to others.

Because if you are really gonna do the whole “aim to be above average” thing then what does that say about your view of other people? And what does it say about your own privilege, given that more than 50% of people in this world don’t have the security to think about their “potential”. Just some food for thought, no offense intended cuz I get what you’re saying. I just think humility needs to go along with ambition.

Ah, I've misunderstood your intention with the post, my bad.

Yes, that is correct, but it's a motivation for many so it shouldn't be dismissed either. Some are more competitive than others after all. However I perfectly agree with your point, you should be your own biggest fan and motivator. personally I couldn't care less about other peoples abilities (In this context... I'm not a monster). I'll never meet (a fictional) Aarav Kashyap and won't ever be able to compare our skills. if I'm better or worse than him at something comes down to the same thing for what difference it makes in my life.

I practice my hobbies because they amuse me and give me a constant goal to work towards. I know I have "potential" in some fields and I love pouring effort to my craft and seeing it grow. My poetry is a fantastic way to reframe and restate my thoughts in a sort of a self-therapy, and people (and me) like the resulting poems. I like my paintings even if they are crap, because each shows a very slight improvement. I like my programming project, because they are puzzles I can spend hours working towards and end up with a completed "thing" I can feel proud of (before forgetting about it somewhere deep in my Github).

My work is for me, and that makes me happy. If anyone else enjoys the results that is a fantastic bonus! It might not be a philosophy everyone can adapt, but it works for me.

That’s awesome. I used to be super competitive academically and in terms of my hobbies when I was growing up, but realized eventually that I was always chasing fake targets. I like what you said about your hobbies, even when you may not be “good” at them - I’m glad I started figuring this out in my 20s. Makes life more enjoyable :)

Yep. Being that "smart kid" only carries you so far. Trying to drag it into your adulthood is like being the brainy version of Al Bundy.

Washup: "I remember that all-nighter I pulled! I didn't even study beforehand! I wrote that whole 15 page paper in one day! I got an A!"

Wife of 10 years: "Uh huh... so how are we going to pay the electric bill? You've been unemployed for eight months."

Fuuuck life isn't a competition man. There isn't room for every "young hungry person" to have that level of fame and success. Gross.

Life is a competition. But you're right, there's not room at the top for everyone. Better make sure it's you.

Why? There's lots of great space in the middle too. If you're not a competitive person, there's no need for the stress that can bring.

I turned 29 2 days ago, and spent most of today watching Dragonball Z and playing Runescape. I feel like I should be taking more about this comment on board than I am...

but then all of a sudden you're 29

Stop that

tfw realizing lil pump is literally 17 and was set to be an unsuccessful member of society before he decided to release what was probably cringeworthy rap via soundcloud like honestly get out, do things, find your passion, and roll with it once you find it, embrace it in whichever way possible at the same time, realize money exists and save it--have both retirement and emergency funds, dedicate a certain percent of income to it

This is such a painful lesson. I've basked in my potentialities all my life. Now I'm 25, graduated from a top 50 university for 4 years, and have done nothing but work a few part time jobs here and there that I could have gotten as a highschooler. I have not bridged the gap between potential and actualizing.

Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

I think one of the worse things that happened to me as a kid was people(mostly my parents) bragging about how smart I was and my reaction to it. I got real comfortable being the smart guy in the room so I never really worked towards my potential, I just coasted on that feeling until I realized that not only was I not that guy anymore but that the world is full of people like that.

As someone who coasted on my potential I wholly support this comment. After I graduated university life was immediately a lot more difficult for me than my classmates who had really applied themselves. It's taken me 5 years of significant effort to get back on track to where I should have been right after graduation. I could be earning literally triple what I'm making now if I had gotten my shit together earlier, not to mention the 5 years of time I wasted.

Save yourself the stress and hard work, take advantage of your education now.

This is why Post Malone upsets me so much. He's one day younger than me

The 'celebrities younger than you' thing just hit me yesterday

I'm just like my country, I'm young, scrappy and hungry.

What if you don't know what you want?

While I believe this I think 18 year old me would scoff at it and that's the real problem.

and there are celebrities younger than you

I was never impressed by celebrities, but I was by sportsmen.

I grew up watching basket and football (soccer), I idolized Ronaldo, Baggio, Signori, yet now I follow people that are much younger than me and much more accomplished.

What if I was never hungry and have no ambition.

Dude I'm 17 and there's celebrities younger than me. This is just unfair

You could be 19 and there would be celebrities and professional athletes younger than you. The world is crazy.

Don't let being 30 stop you from doing something you love though. Bryan Cranston got his big break when he was 40. Christopher Waltz didn't get his big break until he was 50. Hell, Judy Dench got hers when she was 60!

It turned my head upside down when I glanced at a Wikipedia article and found out Lil' Pump was born in the year 2000.

I worked with a very smart guy on a research paper back when I was about 27. I was a grad student and he a PhD student. Guy was 32 at the time and had changed advisors/professors 2 times now (on his 3rd). The more I spoke with him the clearer it became he had no real plans if he even earned his PhD. I still cannot forget one of the questions he first asked upon arrival was where the good clubs/party places were.

"How old are you Birdman?"

"Uhhh"

"Not a trick question Birdman"

"36"

"36! That's the age I founded this lawfirm! HAH, like hell it was I was 26, which brings be to my point. I'm only 34 Birdman, two years younger than you and already i've done so much while you.... haven't."

There are celebrities younger than you even if you're 18.

The fuck being a celebrity have to do with anything?

I'm 22 and there are celebrities younger than me. There were celebrities younger than me when I was 10. Oo

29 isn't young? =[

I took a screenshot of this. Hopefully one day i can say this made a difference in my attitude. I really have to get my act together. Thanks for this.

Imagine the realization that every hero in every story you ever cared about and every discoverer or scientist or conquerer you ever admired did the things that made them great when they were younger than you are.

And that you've done nothing.

It's not a nice place to be.

Lil yachty is like 4 days younger than me...

cries

man, if you were born just four days later, maybe you could have been lil yachty.

Probably need to be black too.

And have musical talent.

Ok I'm 26 ... 4 years left huh

yep, pretty much just give up at this point.

Not just hungry, but healthy and without people that are dependent on you. I know a lot of people that went back to school with a couple kids and a SO. Things became much more difficult for them compared to myself.

And if you aren't young, that's not an excuse, it's never too late!

God this is me. I’m 27 and finally finishing up school to do something I think I’m gonna love doing. And it’s weird being a good deal older than my classmates and reading about how people in their early 20s are living my dream. It’s better late than ever and I’m doing much better in school now that I’m older, but a lot of my 20s were spent being pretty miserable.

I’m 24 and I’m already feeling this. Now I have no idea what I’m even potentially successful at...

This is one of the most resonating posts in this thread. In primary and high school I was considered by most people's standard as naturally smart or gifted. Depression hit hard around 15 and although I managed to continued to be a top student for another year or 2 because I was ahead, it eventually caught up to me and I ended up just borderline passing high school. I took my own natural smarts or more accurately my potential for granted and my life in almost every aspect collapsed. I'm still desperately trying to get life back on track 5+ years later and my only true regret is not being more humble and taking the easy life for granted. Nowadays, it's the complete opposite, everything I do or want to do takes tremendous effort and many hours of hard work.

Lol I'm 20 and there are lots of celebrities younger than me already.

Most of these are hitting home here in my early thirties. This one, in particular, really does.

Kids, work hard even if you don't need to in order to get by. It'll be worth the effort sooner than you think, and you'll lament not having done it if you don't.

I think being young and learning a side skill is the best time to learn the side skill. You can make money from it, even without a job (nobody hired me when I was 14, but some of my friends were able to make hundreds by coding for people). Also, you’re able to network easier because some adults think you’re super talented or something when you were just on code academy for 5 mins

but then all of a sudden you're 29 and there are celebrities younger than you and you find yourself wondering where to even get started.

holy fuck. i am 29, this is me

When you're Youngry

Ooof. You hit one of my biggest fears rn

Fuck me dude, I’m 29 and this hit me.

I have been looking to make a change but inertia man.

I’m in my twenties and I always fear being a has-been. I would put off personal happiness to get a stable career.

It’s mainly a mixture of my own ego, my want to make my parents proud since they sacrificed a lot to get me a good life, and my needs /wants in life.

I’m 21 and there are already celebrities younger than me

If it makes you feel any better, Alexander the great was conquering europe when he was 23 or so.

Yep. Turned 30 a bit ago and I'm only just now going into a good field that I can stand. I'd been coasting off my potential only to find out I was a lot smarter 10 years ago than I am now.

Like I could've been amazing in my field...instead I'm pretty average because of lost brain plasticity.

To add to that, don't let anyone stand in the way of accomplishing your goals.

The best time to start anything was ten years ago.

The second best time is today.

So no one told you life was gonna be this way

Fuck. This was me. I'm 29 now and have no idea what the shit I'm doing. I just coasted the last 10 years of my life and I just....I have no clue what I'm doing. Wish this post was here 10 years ago.

That was one of the weirdest transitions for me growing older. Celebrities used to always be older than me, then they gradually all became younger. It's still hard to think of them being younger than me and I passed a whole lot of them long ago.

This is true and I’m sort of dealing with this now, but I largely blame school for not being at my goal yet, even though I’ve made decent progress.

I did a total of 10yrs in college. Took 5yrs to get my first degree because of switching schools, worked for 2yrs then changed careers and spent another 2yrs in school getting another bachelors. Then was offered a full ride to grad school so I stayed 3 more years and got my masters. I’m 29 and graduating this May. Grad school especially sucked so much time and energy from me and I felt like I could spend time on myself. Many of my friends from HS have solid careers now and I’m just about to start mine.

This was my thing. I graduated from university and got a job as an assistant manager making decent pay, I worked there for 2 years and lived with my dad for one of those 2 years and stashed away a lot of money then got my own place. This past winter tho it dawned on me that I don't want to do this anymore. I'm by no means struggling but I wasn't happy with my job and I felt like I could do way more. Now I've quit that job, got a deli job at my local grocery store, and am going back to school for IT/Cybersecurity and am attending multiple conferences on behalf of my college this upcoming month. I'm blessed to be fortunate enough to not have any crippling school debt to be able to do this all, but at the age of 24 I figured it was now or never. I'm extremely happy I made the call and things are looking up.

I've feeling this at 25... although I'm just about to start uni as a 'mature student' so I'm excited for the prospects it will bring me... and you can bet your ass I'm going to work ridiculously hard.

The second best time to work towards it is right now.

Needed to hear this to keep me hungry at work.

I've heard that instead of saying 'wow, you must be really smart' you're supposed to tell kids 'wow, you must have worked really hard on that'. It may not be true, they may just be smart, but even if they are they start to get a sense of how much 'work' something is, which is much better than them just coasting until college kicks them in the ass

This is what hit me hard. Seeing celebrities younger than me, and me thinking they're around my age. Nope! Got 10 years on a lot of them.

A lot of young celebrities probably have rich parents though.

Are there any with poor parents?

Dunno. Maybe in sports?

Eh, you're never too old to go back to school. More people should go back to school in their 30s if they aren't in a career with a future by then.

This is not an easy thing for me to do as a 15y/o. I’m have a voracious appetite for my hobbies, having proficiency in a couple of things yet my parents shut it all down for the sake of school and grades. I mean don’t get me wrong school is a big priority but I’ve got to work on the things I’m good at too, get my drift?

Grades don't mean much compared to portfolio and work experience once you start working. Aim to be above average though.

Welp this one made me feel really bad about my life. Thanks.

YUP. 29 year old here. Graduated second in my class in high school while serving as the state president of one of our business organizations and serving as division-winning cross country team captain. In college I graduated summa cum laude while double majoring and running a student organization that a friend and I started from the ground up. I felt like my potential was unlimited - I had been told so my whole life - and was just waiting for it to be realized.

Then I went to grad school, where I realized in my second year that I didn't want to be a counselor and dropped out. With no backup plan and several failed attempts to make one, I'm now in my seventh year as a retail manager making a little over $30K a year with $100K in student loan debt that actually increases each year because my payments don't even cover the interest.

I already feel like the opportunity to reach my potential has been lost, and it makes me immensely sad.

You just had to say "29", didn't you?

Don't think that there is plenty of time to save for retirement. If it is possible for you to put something away on a regular basis, do it. The best time to start is when you get a job that offers you more pay that what you were getting. Take a percentage of the increase and start savings that right from the beginning. That helps make it such that you never miss it.

Exactly what I came to say. 5% of your income in a 401k starting in your 20's is worth as much as 10-15% starting in your 30s, roughly. It is so easy to set yourself up with a nice nest egg even though it looks like nothing at first, it's amazing how well it builds over time.

When starting a new job i have been told put in your max that you could or max out. This gets you use to putting a larger amount in, As the more you put in the better. I mean at the least meet the company match as that's free money wasted.

Exactly. Putting in less than the company will match is just crazy. Even if they match 50% of what you put in up to 6% or so, put in that 6% if at all possible. It makes a huge difference over time.

Putting in less than the company match is essentially turning down a pay raise.

I fall under the match 100% on the first 1% and 50% match up to 6%. However i still am putting in i think last i checked was 9%. and then every 12 months increase the percentage by 1 until it's maxed. I mean the other benefit it gives is lowering your taxable income. So you could potential fall under a smaller tax bracket.

So you could potential fall under a smaller tax bracket.

Lots of people don't get this. Let's say there's 2 brackets, 1 from 0-100k, the other 100k+ for a simple example.

If you're at 150k, you pay the 0-100k rate on 100k, and the 100k+ rate on 50k, not the 100k+ rate on the 150k.

This also means it never hurts you to earn more money, it just means you get a smaller % of that last bit of money you earn.

Ahhh ok, well I'm not the most well versed and was wrong but thanks for the learning opportunity!

Regardless...good on you for contributing as you are!!

Don't worry about it, it's absolutely staggering how many people don't realize how it works. Shit needs to be taught in high school.

The only exception to it never hurts to earn more is if you are low income and receive government benefits like food stamps, etc.

Yup, which is the real reason that we need welfare reform. Sure there are people who abuse it but if we could make it so that you aren't stuck because making more money means that you get less.

If you’re low income and on food stamps, you have a high chance of needing to be put on disability in the future. Your disability checks are based on your previous income, so having lower income so you can collect food stamps hurts you when you only get $600/month for disability (my mother.) Poverty sucks.

Why does being on food stamps increase likelihood for disability in the future? Not calling you wrong just don’t understand.

Poor diets, poor healthcare, lack of knowledge, and (if I’m perfectly honest) sometimes pure laziness all lead to people applying for disability. These traits can be more prevalent in poorer communities. (I am NOT saying that all poor people are lazy! But it can’t be denied that there is a group who claim disability and get a doctor to sign off just because they’re lazy.)

not just dont get it - actually bitch about hitting the next tax bracket and now they're going to lose sooo much money. Motherfucker, you have like $40 thats going to be taxed an extra couple percent, the rest is the same...

You've never heard of AMT? One extra dollar earned could potentially cost thousands in extra taxes.

AMT effects fewer than 5 million filers. That is 1.5% of people. 98.5% of people don't even need to think about this.

Yeah, on a PER YEAR basis. The chances of having to pay it at some point in your life are something like 30%.

I think people get this confused with the assistance cliff, where you earn 1,000 more a year and then lose benefits that will cost you 5,000 to pay for on your own

That being said, the benefit of tax advantaged accounts like 401ks/IRAs is that you get to spread the money out over multiple years if you'd like, which can lessen the amount of money lost to taxes.

E.G. If you're making an extra 50k a year that you'd save either way, if you put it into a conventional savings account after tax, you pay tax at a 50k rate; if you put it into a 401k/IRA and withdraw 10k a year from it for five years, you're paying a 10k tax rate on that 50k**.

I say this to differentiate tax advantaged savings from something else that can offset your taxable income, like charitable donations. I didn't understand the difference in benefit between the two for a long time, so I figured it was worth mentioning

*Don't think 50k is feasible for tax advantaged savings under US law currently, it's just a nice round number

**Assuming you're eligible to withdraw it without fees, like for early withdrawal

***Assuming you don't have any other income. If you did, you'd pay the (10k+other income) tax rate

Edit: Reddit formatting isn't conducive to NBs, ignore the italicization, it wasn't intentional

Theoretically you can contribute a max of around 52,000. You just have to participate in a 401k profit share plan. A lot of business owners do that, they give an extra 10-20k to their employees and save 20k in taxes

Awesome, good to hear!

UK here, but I've had to explain this to two guys at work, inthe last two weeks.

Wow I did not know this.

Don't worry, your not in the minority.

Tax deductions do matter more the more money you make, though. 10k tax-free saves you more money when it would have been taxed at the 150k rate than if it would ahve been taxed at the 0-100k rate.

It absolutely can hurt to make more money. Apparently you've never had to deal with Alternative Minimum Tax.

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This is true unless you contribute to a Roth 401(k) or IRA where the contributions are taxed, but the principal and earnings can be withdrawn tax-free (assuming no early withdrawal).

which is great for when you make very little because youre barely paying tax on it anyway

I think the biggest benefit of a Roth 401(k) for many, especially those early in their careers, is that it has the ability to roll over into a Roth IRA upon leaving a job. This means that you can take any money that you have contributed to the plan out for any reason with out paying additional taxes or any penalties. This is great because it means the money is accessible if something happens where you really need the money. A lot of people have a hard time putting money towards retirement when their short-term financial position is not entirely rock-solid, but with a Roth 401(k), you can contribute the full amount to get the full match of your employer while still having access to the portion that you contributed if something goes wrong.

Wait, what is a Roth 401(k)? I thought it was a Roth IRA?

A Roth 401(k) is an employer sponsored plan, introduced in 2006, that uses after-tax earnings to contribute to the account. An individual can choose to split their contribution to a Traditional and Roth 401(k) however they want, but it can't exceed the total 2018 limit of $18,500.

The reason someone may want to do this is if they think they will be paying higher taxes in the future.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/roth401k.asp

Won't all taxes be increasing forever?
When was the last time they ever trended downwards?

Literally every time republicans are in power lol?

They trended down from 82-91, again in 2001-2004 and more recently, THIS year.

There is an ebb and flow to these things.

When was the last time they ever trended downwards?

Literally 4 months ago...

But you're probably right in general, that they will go up over the next 30+ years.

It's more so geared toward what tax bracket you anticipate to be in at retirement vs the bracket you are in now.

I just started my first big girl job a few months ago and found out my company offers both, a traditional 401k and a Roth 401k. I decided to contribute a little to both. I'm still new to all this, but from my research and understanding, the Roth is better when you're young and have an entry level job and plan to be earning more in the future, thus paying more on taxes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong because it's taken me reading over and over again to figure this out, and I still am not entirely sure if I have, haha.

IRA and 401(K) are accounts, Roth and traditional are types of these accounts. Roth = tax when it goes into the account, traditional = tax when it goes out

A dollar's worth today is about half of what it's worth in 15 years.

Don't get too hung up on "getting into the lower tax bracket" though. It's a step function, not an all or nothing threshhold. For example with the new tax plan here in the US, if you make $40,000 taxable income in 2018, you'll "be in" the 22% tax bracket, but you'll only pay 22% on the $1,300 of it that is in that bracket. On the other $38,700 you're still paying the 12% rate. So don't stretch yourself too thin (and risk going into debt) trying to save an extra few hundred a month in a 401k just to "get into a lower bracket" that is only going to save you a few hundred bucks at the end of the year.

Thanks! I mean I definitely wasnt the most knowledgable on the subject just bare minimum and still learning more. I guess that was a moot point at the end. I was basically trying to make the point to try maxing out contributions as soon as possible because it's only going to help in the long run.

So you could potential fall under a smaller tax bracket.

Taxes do not work this way. Look up "progressive tax." You don't "fall into a different bracket" and magically save a bunch of money.

What I was told was go up to your company's max match, and then whatever else you want to save, put in a Roth IRA

I believe the thought process for Roth is that it gets taxed when you put it in but not when you take it out. So hopefully when you take it out your tax bracket is pretty high, but you've already paid your lower, broke 20-something year old tax rate on it so you're fine.

You can only put in 5500 per year in a Roth IRA though. It should be something that you max out first after matching your company's 401k contribution. The rest can be then put into the 401k.

I think I lucked out..? My company just puts 15% of my annual pay in no matter what without me matching. Is that pretty standard orrr? I'm so terrible at understanding benefits.

That's not standard at all. It's fucking nuts. Do not lose that job.

This. Don't quit until ever.

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I'm actually just a DC Manager for a company that distributes beer ingredients. It's a cool industry and the job is stressful but the benefits are (apparently) really good. I guess that's the beauty of working for a 170+ year old company! Thanks for making me feel slightly better today :)

Holy shit. I thought I was getting lucky with a 6% match. What the fuck do you do that they give a flat 15%

I manage a distribution center for a company that makes and sells beer ingredients.

In Australia, once you earn over a certain amount (can't remember the threshold, but it's not particularly high), your employer must put a percentage of your pay into superannuation

Minimum of 9%, but you can ask the employer to put as much as you want above that.

That's probably forced savings in a 403B or something. Do they advertise it as a pension?

I just know its a 401k, I can dig a little deeper tho.

They send me a yearly report on what it has accrued. Ive been here about 4 years and its got a few thousand in it already without me putting any in. I know it doesn’t start until your second full year with the company and the 15% but not much beyond that.

I just confirmed with my HR that it is just a flat 15% contribution with no need to match. It does have a vesting schedule of 20/40/60/80/100% over your 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th years of employment though. So after 6 years with the company 100% of that is transferrable. It doesn't go into affect until your second year with the company as well. Still pretty badass!

This is an EXCELLENT benefit. My company puts 3% into mine no matter what I put in and even what I receive is rare from what I understand.

It’s also part of your compensation package. It’s like people turning down an extra 3% on their paychecks or whatever the match is. When you put it that way most people get it.

What if you're trying to save for a house? Putting away ~$120/month into an investment that won't pay off for years doesn't always make sense in the present.

This and/or a car are my "short term" big savings goals right now.

If you're buying a house you can (just once) take $10k out of your 401k penalty free to put towards that purchase. Even without that though, the penalty for taking funds out of your 401k early is 10% (pre-tax). If your company's match is more than 10% you're just leaving free money on the table putting it into any other savings vehicle.

That's when you take a loan out against your 401k so that when pay back interest you're paying it into your own retirement plan.

Plus, everything you can put in while in your 20s counts. It may not seem like much now, but compound interest will make it significant on the back end.

Mine matches 100% up to 6%, and I think anyone who puts in less than 6% is crazy. Some coworkers even give me grief for putting in 6%, but it's such a small amount of money per paycheck, and I don't know anyone who couldn't afford that if they tried.

What if my company won’t match it? I still put 8% away...

Without a match, you might be better served saving into a Roth IRA and your HSA, especially if your income is low and expected to grow substantially. But really that's nitpicking. Nothing wrong with staying your course.

Why the hell do they term it like that when it’s effectively 3%?

Because they'll only match what you contribute. So if you're contributing 3% of your pay, the company will only contribute 1.5%.

Am I crazy for not trusting 401k as much as everyone else seems to? I have seen how little retirement some of my family gets from social security so why should I trust the 401k system?

Because they're two entirely different things? Social security is a tax that you pay to the government, which gets distributed to people currently retired and on disability. Then when you retire, the people working then pay their tax into it, and you get a distribution based on how much money is available and how many people are currently eligible to receive it. Most importantly, it's intended as a safety net, and it's not supposed to be your sole source of income. It's intended as a supplement in the event that your pension or retirement savings are insufficient to cover all of your expenses in retirement.

A 401(k), on the other hand, is like a fancy bank account. Any money that you put in is your money. You can use that money to buy stocks, index funds, bonds, even cash if you want. Your investments sit in your account, tax free, until you start selling them off piece by piece when you're retired. How much you have in retirement in your 401(k) is determined by how much you contributed to the account while working, and how well those investments did.

To make an analogy, Social Security is like you and all of your friends throwing in 5 bucks each to help fund a party. Your friend Sam then takes that money and uses it to buy bar snacks and cups and cheap beer and soda as mixers. If you're broke and can't afford to pay more than the 5 bucks you chipped in, when you show up to the party, there's not gonna be much for you to eat and drink, and the stuff that's there isn't gonna be great. A 401(k) is like having money in your bank account. Come the night of the party, you use money from that account to buy a good dinner, and some nice beer or wine or liquor to bring to the party. Chances are, you'll probably be pretty set for the party after that. But, if for some reason you didn't get a big enough dinner or bought too little booze, there's still some cheap stuff at the party that you can dip into, just in case.

I apologize for my ignorance, and thanks for explaining this, but it still seems a bit shady to me. Looking at it as a "fancy bank account" does not reassure me that I will get the money back in the future. Banks fail, wars happen, inflation is on the rise. Not to mention you can't touch the money until you are older, gonna be a pretty lame party if u ask me :/

Inflation is at a very low point as of right now. 2-3% is normal. It's been 2% for a few years now.

Tell that to the ever shrinking products at the stores.

That's not inflation mate.

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It's not the same at all. Inflation is a specific economic term. What you're describing is a) not ubiquitous across the USA and b) changes from store to store.

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But a healthy economy needs small amounts of inflation. 2%-3% is what is considered the best and the USA has had that for years now.

Didn't see your comment and said something similar. Max out that 401K and IRA each year if possible! You likely won't regret it, though there are scenarios where you could.

Haven’t read other posts here, but just wanted to piggy back and hopefully I mention something that someone else will also look into.

If your employer doesn’t have an IRA as a 401k option, consider what I do! I get max match on their 401k offering, and then also max out a Roth IRA. Rest can go to 401k or other riskier personal investments.

As a young individual, the total tax difference between paying tax on withdrawal (401k) vs paying tax when putting money in (Ira) is insane. Think of it as paying tax on 1.3million dollars or 200,000 dollars. These are rough ballparks, but aren’t widely off.

Something for some people to look at!!

Yeah, that's great advice, but in my 20s I was barely paying my electric bills. They said "save $1k" a year. I laughed, because I was lucky to have enough money for groceries, utilities, and rent.

This is me right now.

401k contributions also lower your taxes, so even if you're barely scraping by you probably benefit from putting away some money.

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but you'll never put more money in your pocket today by saving

You actually will. Tomorrow eventually becomes today.

By even saving $1 or $5 every check, that will add up to something real and noticeable. If paying a utility bill is a problem, what are they going to do when the A/C or something else very expensive breaks? This is what savings are for when you're poor. Not for retirement necessarily, but to help stop the never-ending tide of costs of being poor. It's the difference between getting ahead of that or not.

Saving/investing are two completely different concepts.

They both involve accepting the idea of "this is money that is mine, but I won't spend it right now"

for many 20 somethings, that's tough.

Irrelevant, as the concept of his post applies to both.

Saving is investing in your future.

"Saving" is the one surest way to watch your money die.

How so?

A dollar today is worth 50 cents from 1990. It only took 28 years to halve in value. If you saved $10,000 in 1990, it has the buying power of $5,000. Congratulations, you saved nothing, and LOST half your money.

$5,000 is more than $0 if you spent your money on crap.

It heavily depends what you spent your money on.

Paying rent/the house. Good.

Buying cars. Depends on if it is a luxury car, or you need it to work.

Buying good clothes/ healty groceries? Also a good "investment".

None of which you could do if you "save" it. Your comment has no relevance.

If you aren’t making much money you may not even be paying federal income tax, and with the new tax rates they won’t save much at all. Don’t get me wrong I think that you should definitely put money into 401k but if you are in a low breaker consider Roth.

And if your company doesn't offer a 401k you can still do a traditional IRA and deduct the amount off your taxes.

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Step 1) get project fi, step 2) pay ~$30/month, step 3) profit.

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You can get first generation Google Pixel phones from eBay for around $200

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Oh yeah, one of the nice things about the Pixel phones is that they never let the carriers lock them. They are all sold unlocked, so you just need to order a Project Fi SIM card and you are good to go. Nice phones, too - I was using the generation before that (Nexus 6P) until a few months ago and still liked it but the battery went bad. One small word of caution about Project Fi, they use the Sprint and T-Mobile networks, so make sure you have good service for one of those where you live and work. I had to switch back to ATT because of that (which wasn't too bad because the phone is unlocked, so just needed to swap the SIM out)

It's way more than $30 if you want more than talk and text. Just check it and for what I use for my wife and myself it would be $135 a month.

Had it for about 2 years now. 1 gig of data a month costs me about $32. Sometimes I use more, sometimes I use less. I'm a single user, I think each additional member gets a $5 discount. They recently capped data charges too at $60 + $20 call/text (for 1 person) essentially making it an unlimited data plan.

Last months bill: http://imgur.com/iscEjeS

Jumped ship from Verizon unlimited data when they started raising prices left and right. So glad I did.

It also helps that mostly everywhere I am has WiFi, other than camping or backpacking and then it's about as much as a Verizon or at&t plan for a couple months.

That still seams silly in Australia you get 4gb ish depending on carrier with prepaid for 10aud 15usd

Which carrier are you on? Are you on prepaid phone credit too? Virgin won't let me get separate prepaid data with my prepaid phone credit for some reason

Iirc telstra. I haven't used that sim I'm a while tho. I only use it when I'm in areas with nextg only coverage. It was something weird where u had to throw x amount on and you then can use that data and then top up with the credit they give you to get more data.

Honnestly a 30 buck optus plan beat it for data+free calls.

Damn I thought Australia had shitty internet and phone plans? Freedom In Ontario give a $50/mo 10GB plan but their service is terrible outside of the city (where I am most of the time). Bell, Rogers, and Telus are all about $100/mo for 2.5GB :/

Optus is our number 2 im on 59 a month for 30gb of data. Free Netflix and Spotify and some sports and shit. Unlimited calls and texts unless they are toll call numbers. Optus cover 90% of the population telstra 96% to put that into perspective tho only 10% of the population live in 90% of Australia. The other 90% is in city's along the eastern coast. So unless you are in those city's your coverage will be shitty.

My town has 3k people it's 5hrs from a small city in the 4th most populated states. I get coverage here and in that city in between only telstra has tower's.

Lte speeds tend to cap at 100mbps nbnfiber and fixed wireless is capped at 100mbps/50 and 50/25 respectively, adsl2+ is 12mbps (up to 24 but good luck with that it's a running joke).

Think nbn is currently covering 60% of the population.

In Chile I have 14gb for the same 15usd. The life costs surprise me.

You guys must use insane amounts of data. ~$60 for me and my husband on a high month

We use about 10gb per month

Wtf, jump on WiFi once in a while

Really? What is it really, 300mb a day? That's nothing nowadays if you actually spend time outside your house and many countries are different, not all of them have public, secure WiFi available.

On wifi every second I am home???

I use way too much data for Fi. T-Mobile has a $50/mo 10GB plan and that's barely enough for me, whereas with Fi it's $20 + $10 for every gigabyte you use, which is about $120 for my usage.

Fi caps out at 80/mo. Still too expensive if you're not using WiFi though

T-Mobile has a $50/mo 10GB plan and that's barely enough for me

That's...insane. I've never gone above 2GB. Do you not have WiFi in your home?

I do, and my data usage on wifi is usually around 30GB. That's just from my phone, not including my laptop.

I got a s9 for chips on a plan that I was already using and was the minimum/cheapest/reliable carrier. I use it for work I use it for all sorts of shit and the only social media I have is redit. Sometimes it's worth spending on decent stuff if you use it and want reliability and performance. Granted I spent 5 weeks comparing phones and if I didn't get this it would have been the new Nokia 6 which looks like an amazing deal for anyone looking at getting a phone for cheap.

Gota be careful with cheap really hard to filter the shit from quality

The price I pay for Netflix is worth it just to not have advertising.

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I don't torrent.

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That's not a ton, that's less than I spend on coffee. And no the price is worth the convenience.

I used to have a raid htpc for pirated content. I just think it's worth rewarding people for a decent job. And if I can't than I don't bother with their shit (so fuck game of thrones the books were better anyway). I don't torrent anymore. I have paid services that make life easier than torrenting. The closest thing to Netflix was popcorn time. Which was worthless if you wanted to watch anything not trending.

Netflix is also free data on optus (same with Spotify) both are services well worth what you pay. And if they don't have the content you want then you can go with a competitor.

So yeah it another one of those less convenient but I don't have to pay issues. Torrents are free but I don't get to discover new content that everyone else isn't already watching.

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Lte but yeah. When I'm not home and I'm bored instead of playing crappy mobile games or using fb I will watch something on Netflix or YouTube

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I have a switch I just don't always have it with me. I don't often watch Netflix on my phone(which is a s9+ so it's a small tablet on an amoled so it's pretty as hell) but we only have adsl out where I am so lte speeds beat the even the crappy fixed wireless I could have if I was out of town last time I checked I was getting 70ish mbps which I can then chromecast. Tho optus caps the free Netflix out at 1.5Mbps (which is my theoretical max on adsl so Meh.) meaning I can game on stable adsl without my missus nuking my internet watching vampire TV shows.

I'm a Nintendo geek I have essentially every hand-held since the game boy never had any home consoles tho. The switch library sure does seam swarmed with re-releases tho, on another note.

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In a few months. To the kerb... Fuck yes. There was a time out here where I was playing Diablo on oldschool sat.

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It's insane. Nintendo need to pump out some of their ip. I'm itching for some decent jrpgs

It aint worth not living life now to have money when you are too old to not live life anymore.

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Rofl yeah. Is you boomer059's idea of living life watching youtube videos all day on his 800$ phone?

Because thats ridiculous. Go buy a used android, sell your iphone, get out of the payment plan for your stupid overpriced contract, do pay as you go or some shit, and pay 20$ a month for your damn phone.

How could you possbily be paying $3000 dollars?

Also $800 will get you the absolute best phone ever. I usually go for the 200 dollar medium tier ones.

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In the UK so slightly different situation but I pay £40 a month on a 24 month contract (total £960) and get a free S8+ and 30GB of data a month. That's not much more than the price of the phone.

I mean, $130?

The best phone you can get right now is the Pixel 2 XL.

The best carrier you can get is Project Fi, which is like $80 a month.

Yep, I was a student in most of my 20s, definitely couldn’t contribute that much to a 401k and now I have high interest debt, yay

You have options with student loan debt though.

For starters its tax deductible, until you make X$ per year, which I THINK is $80k in the US, so you put yourself on the income based repayment plan, pay the mins and invest into your 401k until you hit that figure, then you can aggressively prepay it.

If by HIGH interest you mean anything above 6%, refinance those loans. Otherwise this strategy works.

Well fortunately now that I’ve graduated and I’m working I’m able to make 401k payments and student loan payments, I’m just upset that being from the US means my government (not private) loans are at higher than 6%. Interest payments are tax deductible but not the full payments. If I ride out with income based the interest payments would cause the principal to balloon. Refinancing would involve huge payments every month and very restrictive repayment terms. I’m on the 10 year repayment plan so I’m doing ok but all my European and South American friends are like “why so much debt just for school?”

You'll end up taking much more of your pay home with you for the rest of your life though.

Step 1: Find a roommate
Step 2: Lock him in a closet until he agrees to pay you $1000
Step 3: Release and repeat

It puts the lotion in the basket or else it gets the hose again.

Wow I just watched this movie again yesterday and I've already noticed like 5 different references to it today..So weird.

See this is how little people understand about compounding interest. You don’t even need $1k. You could literally do $2 a week. That’s $100 a year. At an average of even 7% over 40 years. It’s well worth your time. And there’s NO way, NONE, that you can’t afford $2 a week. I HATE that I didn’t know or even understand this when I was in my early 20s.

Edit: I’m 33. I didn’t understand this the results of compounding interest until recently. I said “early 20s” becuase I wish I’d understood at 20 so I could’ve started then. But anytime is a great time to take advantage of it.

Right? Such a Boomer mentality. They think we're partying and spending all our money on coke. If I have to choose between saving for retirement and eating dinner tonight, I'll choose dinner.

From one millennial to another, show me your budget and I'll show you where you are going wrong. No more excuses

Edit: keep downvoting me while you browse Reddit on your smartphone with a data plan

Why is it so hard for some people to believe that sometimes you just cannot cut back? I literally had to leave my entire life and start working remotely, living in low cost of living countries, to even have a shot at having some disposable income and enjoying my life. When I still lived in England, my pay covered the essentials and pretty much nothing else. I had people telling me to save for retirement when I was literally skipping meals because I couldn't afford food and putting in so many hours at my side gig that I sometimes went to my main job with no sleep at all.

I was paying about 50% of my take-home pay for a shitty room and a shitty apartment with 4 other people (still a good deal, rent wise), then I had bills, monthly travelcard (almost £200/month), food. I haven't bought new clothes in years, everything is second hand and sold on apps. Don't have a fancy phone. Pay the bare minimum for the phone plan. Don't smoke, don't do drugs (in London I got lots of free booze through work and that was basically my social life), no gym, no exercise classes...I'm interested to know where you think I could have cut back.

Why is it so hard for some people to believe that sometimes you just cannot cut back?

The people saying "oh it's easy, you can cut down on your expenditures" aren't trying to help you, they're trying to blame you for situations you didn't get yourself into and don't have control over. It's a power thing for them.

Have you just tried not being poor? /s

Obviously. And 90% of those people have some sort of significant privilege which means they never have been and never will be poor or struggling. A lot of people count themselves lucky if their job even covers their essentials, let alone anything else. Including educated people trying to go into professions.

that is completely generalizing everyone who gets told that and absolves them of any wrong doing. Some people can't do anything about their current situation. Many, many more use this mentality to put the blame on others.

My current room mate and I attend the same medical school. I am 250,000 in debt. His debt is 480,000. Zero difference in tuition, roughly 1500 difference in rent, bills, utilities, etc yearly. He "has" to buy $40 white t-shirts because the ones you get at target or j crew just don't cut it. He "needed" a brand new outfit and pair of shoes to go on a week long trip overseas. He "can't" buy cheaper food because it doesn't taste as good as the organic stuff.

Those are all entirely his decisions to make, as he is an adult, and consciously makes the decision not to sacrifice his lifestyle in the name of frugality. There won't be another chance in a long time to go on a trip. So he took it. That is a fair decision to make.

But I'll be fucking damned if the extra 200,000 of his debt isn't almost entirely his own fault.

Sure. Not completely applicable here. But for every person who absolutely cannot sacrifice anything more, there are many more who make poor decisions leading to their own demise.

Oh, there are some people who get themselves into that hole themselves - actually, I've done it, although not to that extent. But I would suggest that they are the minority rather than the norm.

Not exactly sure that's true... I've been poor before and I realized it was due to my decisions. I know my parents say they can't cut back at all yet they spend money on a dog or something...

You absolutely have control over your financial situation. And even if you don’t think you do, who else is going to fix it for you? The options are to fix it yourself or to wallow in it literally forever.

Edit: still wondering, downvoters. Who’s gonna dig you out besides yourself? Choose wallow if you want to, just don’t expect those of us with retirements to care

Sorry, I should have put the disclaimer that you need to be making a minimum of 12USD/hour first. Anything less and yeah, it's extremely difficult for the average person. Thanks for the reply and good luck

I was making WAY more than 12 USD/hour. And I'm not the average person. I have two degrees, speak four languages, am good at budgeting and that was STILL my life. The average person is living at home with their parents with no hope of even being able to move out and rent a place. This is the reality in most of Europe today. People working full time jobs (if they're lucky enough to find one - unemployment rate is around 40% here for under 35s) can barely even support themselves, let alone save.

Not to sound snarky but Reddit often makes "Europe" sound like heaven on Earth compared to the US. Making more than $12/hr with no dependants and still struggling sounds like it sucks. I bought my first house making $16/hr and felt very comfortable. Tons of full time jobs, cheap housing and land in 75% of the country

I don't know why Americans like to fetishise Europe so much. Yes, we take better care of those who cannot take care of themselves, with socialised healthcare in many countries and more generous welfare, but in terms of employment opportunities, lots of countries are absolutely fucked. The UK especially is full of 'zero hour' contracts with no security, temp work, short term contracts. Spain is full of young adults with college degrees working in fast food and retail. I think for an able-bodied young person, it's WAY easier to make it in the US.

The US has all of those issues as well

I don't know how it compares. I have friends in cities like Seattle who have bought houses in their twenties, which would be unheard of in Barcelona or London. Maybe they're exceptionally lucky, I don't know. It seems like professional salaries are WAY higher over there, even compensating for the fact you need private health insurance etc. I've seen programmer salaries 3 x what they would be here, and teachers and nurses are a LOT better paid too.

I used to work with a lot of Germans in the paint industry. They were constantly criticizing the United States and advocating for European type programs. I would ask each of them individually why they came to the states and every one of them said that they could live a much better lifestyle here than back home.

It's a super individualistic culture with low taxes, which is good for increasing personal wealth and getting a ton of reward for working hard. For a European, the individualism is pretty brutal. Germany takes a lot better care of the sick, disabled, etc. but the flipside of that is much higher taxes and much less opportunity to increase personal wealth. I had the chance to work in the US for six months years ago and I was amazed at how much money I could make just from working my ass off doing double shifts as a waitress. I paid very little tax on my basic wage, and then got tons in cash tips. In Europe, doing the double shift would barely be worth it, because you'd pay a ton of tax.

Also, yeah, the standard of living is much higher in the US, on the whole. I know there is a lot of poverty, but your average middle class family has a huge house, two or more cars, dishwasher, huge fridge, clothes dryer. I think a lot of the Americans who think Europeans have it so much better would find it super hard to take the bus or walk everywhere, wash dishes by hand, hang out washing to dry on a washing line outside and all the other stuff we don't consider a hardship at all. I have a friend from the US staying with me right now and he was shocked that I walk 20 minutes to the supermarket and then walk back carrying a heavy backpack full of groceries. Everyday stuff here seems like an enormous effort and hardship for a lot of middle class Americans. And I'm in a developed European country with a high standard of living!

None of what you said is true. I don't know where you got your information from, but that is NOT the reality in Europe today, far from it.

See: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:Unemployment_rates_EU-28_EA-19_US_and_Japan_seasonally_adjusted_January_2000_February_2018.png

&

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_unemployment_rate

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http://appsso.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/nui/show.do?dataset=ilc_lvps09&lang=en

My information is REALITY. What kind of naive idiot believes official statistics? The UK in particular is excellent at massaging figures to reflect what they want to portray. The Conservative government is excellent at pretending non-jobs constitute 'employment' to make sure as few people as possible get help from the government. I was considered as having a 'full time job' (and hence ineligible for any kind of state benefits or support) even though my contract was zero hours, and I literally never knew on a Friday if I would have any work at all the following week (so, how was it even allowed to be considered a 'contract' at all? This would not be legal in most countries). There were many weeks I only got a few hours of work, so earned minimum wage or less for the month as a whole, but because I was 'employed', I couldn't have got any help. Many academic staff at universities are on 3-month contracts, so can't plan ahead at all. They just have to hope their contract gets renewed. They don't have any proper holiday pay or benefits. I know people who have lived like this for YEARS. Lots of people are forced to register as 'self employed' to work as all kinds of things, from chefs to delivery drivers, so the minimum wage doesn't apply to them and they get no benefits. It's easy to have a low unemployment rate when you set the bar for what constitutes 'employment' so low, isn't it?

The figure I gave for Spain was for YOUNG PEOPLE, not the population as a whole (although the figure for the population as a whole is still around 18% - do you think that's somehow not a problem?) http://cadenaser.com/ser/2017/05/02/internacional/1493719902_231476.html This link confirms that the unemployment rate for young people in Spain is over 40% (they're categorising young as \<25, but the rate for under 35s isn't a whole lot better) and in Greece it's 48%. Several countries on that Wikipedia link have an official overall unemployment rate of OVER 20% - again, young people are almost always disproportionately affected. There are countries where almost 1 in 4 or 5 people is out of work based on the official statistics, and you're telling me there's not an issue?

Come out from under your fucking rock.

Thank you for that anecdote, but how does your individual financial situation correlate in any way to the whole of Europe?

Yes there are certain countries in the EU which have an unemployment problem, but as you can see from the data, unemployment has gone down pretty much all over Europe for the past few years.

Oh my God. You're not the sharpest tool in the box, are you? It's not an individual situation, that's the entire point. If the unemployment rate in the UK actually reflected the truth of the situation - that hundreds of thousands of 'employed' people are not actually employed at all, using most definitions, it would be at LEAST three times as high, if not much more. I have literally explained to you why that is and you STILL don't get it. There is plenty of data all over the internet about this issue, but if you're too ignorant to acknowledge it, there's not much I can do.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/household-rate-of-unemployment-3-times-greater-than-government-preferred-statistic-2017-8

http://uk.businessinsider.com/unemployment-in-the-uk-is-now-so-low-its-in-danger-of-exposing-the-lie-used-to-create-the-numbers-2017-7

http://www4.shu.ac.uk/research/cresr/news/real-level-unemployment-almost-35million-new-report

I love how you casually say there are 'certain' countries with an unemployment problem, as if that's no big deal. We're not even talking about the Balkans and countries which have always been poor. Spain, France, Greece, Italy and others have a youth unemployment rate between 20 and 50%. Do those countries not matter? The EU as a whole has a youth unemployment rate around 20%. 1 in 5 young people DO NOT HAVE A JOB AT ALL. Not even a shitty zero hour contract McJob they're massively overqualified for. This is ignoring the fact that minimum wages in these countries generally don't pay enough for young people to be able to move out and live independently, which was my original point. A lot of those classified as 'employed' are working part time or forced into 'self employment' with no benefits or minimum wage. I know plenty of people here in Spain earning 650 euros a month in a city where a room in an apartment is easily 400 euros and food prices keep rising and rising.

But yeah, just believe your little statistics and ignore the person who has lived all over Europe and writes about this stuff for a living.

I don't know if you read more than the headline of your sources, because in the content the discrepancy between the govt. numbers and your numbers are clearly explained:

Yet, as the ONS makes clear, that 4.5% number doesn't count part-time workers who want full-time jobs, "inactive" workers alienated from the workforce, people who retire, students, or those who work in the home. Once you wrap all those people in, the number of jobless people is actually 21.5% of the entire workforce, according to the ONS

So you have to take students, retired people, and people who are unhappy with their working hours or employment contract all lumped in with actual unemployed people to reach your 20%. That is a whole different statement.

A lot of those classified as 'employed' are working part time or forced into 'self employment' with no benefits or minimum wage.

Your own source discredits this statement.

Also from your article:

The good news is that worklessness is much improved from 11 years ago, when nearly 21% of households were jobless.

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The average person is living at home with their parents with no hope of even being able to move out and rent a place. This is the reality in most of Europe today.

http://static4.uk.businessinsider.com/image/59a6b9f753b50725008b4b69-1724/unemployment%20uk%20households.png

So even if there was this hyperbolic issue you're describing, it's gotten better 21% in the last decade, not worse.

I do live in Europe, and have moved and worked abroad, so my anecdotal experiences count the same as yours(nothing). If you write about this issue for a living, maybe you should do something else.

I never claimed a rate of 20% for the UK. The same link tells you that even taking out those people who are not looking for work, the real unemployment rate is closer to 15%. Over three times the official figure. Reading is tough for you, isn't it?

"This chart from Pantheon Macroeconomics shows that the total rate of unemployed workers, inactive workers who want jobs, and people stuck in part-time jobs who want full-time work, is also about 14.5%, roughly the same as the ONS's household rate"

You think my source discredits my statement about unemployment figures being massaged to count people working part time or forced to 'gig' as self employed contractors? Wow, you really DO have a reading comprehension problem because THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE SAYING.

"The answer is that unemployment is not really that low. In reality, about 21.5% of British workers are either officially unemployed, inactive, or employed part time even though they really want full-time work."

"And why are so many people trapped in the "gig economy," making minimum wage? (Answer: Because the true underlying rate of unemployment means companies can still find new workers even in a time of "full employment.")

There's even a link to an entire article about it - "the effect of chronic underemployment of the unemployment rate, and the depressing new reality of the gig economy."

The reason that the unemployment rate SEEMS so much lower is that IT'S BASED ON FAKE NUMBERS. How is this still not sinking in? 20 years ago, 'employed' meant a proper, permanent contract on at least minimum wage. Now, it means 'working in any way, shape or form', even if that 'work' is only 5 hours a week, completely insecure and below minimum wage.

You just can't get past those 'official' numbers, can you? What a sheep. You literally believe the Conservative government of the UK are being honest and transparent about the unemployment rate when it's blatantly clear to anyone in possession of a functioning brain that a huge percentage of 'jobs' would not have been considered 'jobs' in 1996. Someone driving irregular shifts for Uber or teaching 4-6 hours a week with no contract would not have been considered 'employed'. Now they are. Use of food banks has increased enormously over the past decade. Why is that, then, if the unemployment rate has got so much lower and everything is rosy?

I'm sorry but that is nonsense. You didn't have to move to another country to survive, you just had to leave London.

The living wage here is now £7.80 - a full time job even at the living wage is over a grand a month. I live in a semi-large town of about 60,000 people and rent here is about £400-£500 for a 2/3 bedroom house.

I earn less than £10 an hour and rented for 4 years after moving out when I was 19, and was still able to save up a deposit for a house by myself, which I bought last year.

Honestly, fuck the baby boomers attitude, I know it's tougher. But it's hard to accept all of what you said when I have so much anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

I'm not talking about surviving, I'm talking about living. Most people in the UK don't seem to be able to see the difference. My job was based in London and virtually non-existent outside it (I applied for the few roles advertised, never even got an email back), so no, I couldn't just leave London. The money I was making at the beginning of my freelance career wasn't enough for even a cheaper city in the UK, so that's why I left. And it's not just about the raw numbers. The lifestyle I have here is vastly superior to the one I'd have in the UK on the same money. My disposable income goes a lot further because there's so much to do for free.

Depends on your definition of "living" then I suppose. If to you that means living in a major city is an absolute necessity then so be it but obviously that comes at a premium.

I don't blame you for leaving though, if you were dead set on living in a major city then leaving London was probably a very sensible financial decision.

No, I mean having what I consider a good lifestyle. Not going to work, watching TV, going to bed, rinse and repeat during long, cold, wet, dark winter months where it's dark at 4pm, dreaming of my one week in Tenerife I struggled to save up for. Which is pretty much what I observed last time I went back to visit relatives.

Well yeah, I can agree with that.

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Different person but dude if I'm working full time and volunteering/second job 2 days a week I don't have the time to sell shit online. That is a whole job itself, that can easily take up all your time.

Most times, you are absolutely right. I've used YNAB for budgeting for years, but when I was teaching in NC, I was only making 23,000. Budgeting helped make sure I could usually (not always) keep the lights on. It did not enable me to save.

Now, a decade later, I have the opposite problem. I actually have a 'SPEND THIS' budget in YNAB because I am so used to being poor and not being able to buy things for myself. I have to force myself to purchase things I need (think clothes, furniture for the house I recently purchased, etc.)

All this to say - sometimes you can't save. Sometimes, budgeting isn't the answer, increasing your pay is.

Absolutely. Put in 5% and I guarantee you won't miss it after a few months. I use You Need a Budget and it turned me around completely. I was spending like a quarter of my take home pay on eating out every month!

Lol being able to afford to eat out. I didnt even need to budget that as i could literally never afford it. Not even in the equation

Edit: and i mean nothing. No coffee here and there no vending machine junk. Nothing.

How though.... Where did your money go? I know this is a shitty question, but why not find a better paying job making more money?

Please don't take that as an insult because I'm honestly wondering why

but why not find a better paying job making more money?

lmao.

Oh, get a job? Just get a job? Why don't I strap on my job helmet and squeeze down into a job cannon and fire off into job land, where jobs grow on jobbies?!”

I kinda sympathize with this comment. I tried for a couple months to get a job. (Finally got one.) But the whole time my dad didn't understand you can't just walk in to a place and get an application. 90% of them are online now. So in his eyes I wasn't even trying because he didn't see me leave the house enough. Probably put in 100+ applications before I got an interview/job at a bakery @ $9/hr.

I feel you. My dad is the same way. I'd literally go to a place that was hiring and ask for an application. They'd say to fill it outline. I'd tell my dad this and he'd say I should have demanded to speak to the manager and sell myself. He just couldn't grasp that it didn't work that way.

And any applications that I had pending, he'd tell me to call them every single day to remind them I want the job.

It was a nightmare.

He's come around though. I don't life with him anymore so that helps us have a better relationship since when I visit. it's basically as a friend instead of someone who is obligated to contribute to the household.

Sounds just like my dad lol.

Just need more gumption!

Well i got a job now but damn it wasn't easy.

This is why I asked. Where I live (midwest) its really not hard to find a job for at least 12\hr. Especially somewhere like an old folks home where they are always looking and can pay like 15 an hour

I understand where you're coming from but at the same time I think that 100 apps is a ton more than needed.

From my experience with the service industry you can go in and ask for a hiring manager and talk to them before / after putting in your application. It works out so much better than just waiting for them to contact you.

I'm not saying that you didn't do this but just wanted to throw that piece of advice out for someone who might see this thread that is currently looking for a job

If your current job is that low paying then you should literally put 100% of your effort into finding a higher paying job. Basically any short term sacrifice you make will be worth it in the long run because you aren't getting anywhere in your current position.

Are you in the u.s.?

I know multiple people with no education who started out stocking shelves at a supermarket or working as a cashier in a retail environment who simply showed up on time and treated the job with respect and worked their wAy into management in about five years .

Honestly it is so difficult to find good reliable workers who don’t constantly complain, don’t steal, and show up on time that if you can do nothing more than that, you will progress quickly past an entry level job, at least in the states.

Throw in presentable and an agreeable personality and you should have no problem making a good career.

You just made my day, I fucking LOVE Freddy Got Fingered.

You should always put something away, even if it's not much. Even $10-20 out of each paycheck, set up an automatic transfer and you won't even know you're doing it.

This was years ago, but I couldn't pay all my bills. If I had an extra $20, it went to pay the electric company.

I started saving seriously when I was 30 and finally had a real job. Telling people to save for retirement in their 20s is great advice, but it's not always practical. Student loans, rent, and food are very draining.

GenXer here, I'm tired of your bullshit. We had the same problems in our 20s. You can find a little to throw at a 401k or savings. Doesn't have to be a lot right now. That little bit will become big money through compound interest. It is the money gaining interest the longest. Make a budget. You can find a bit to kick towards retirement.

Wow, that was unnecessarily mean.

Very gen-xey

You have no idea who you are talking to. You clearly didn't read my posts well.

I'm 23 going on 24 and I've been living paychek to paycheck since I was 19. My extra money goes to food, or being able to do something nice with my fiancée so we're slightly less depressed at least for a short time. I literally LITERALLY can't afford to save. I'm about to be homeless again because (enter my advice to people in their 20s) I did business with family members. I rent from two family members who are more focused on retiring early with a nice well-kept yard than they are helping their own children or grandchildren, and it's because "well we did it so why can't you?", and they completely ignore the fact that their generation fucking DESTROYED the economy and made it next to impossible for people in my generation to ever retire. They've been living "below their means" for years, so they constantly see their savings go up and up and up, not realizing that they save more in a year than some people MAKE in a year.

Don't start with me on the bullshit of "you CAN save" because not nearly everybody can.

You have to have money to be able to save money.

I started using Meth in my 20's. Found out that you didn't need groceries or certain utilities if you had Speed..... Don't do Meth kids.

The 5% in your 20s vs 10-15% in your 30s is a little overstated, because it assumes you're not making more in your 30s than you are in your 20s. Save $1000/year in your 20s and you'll end up with about $14.7k in 10 years (assuming 7% CAGR, which is what the S&P 500 has managed since 1871). Not chump change, but that $14,700 isn't going to make you a millionaire even if you're able to let it compound for another 30 years (it'll make you $111k though). It's far more effective if you invest in yourself, build a solid career, and live cheaply once you're raking in some serious dough. Saving $5k/year for 10 years is $73.9k, and $505k after 30.

At the end of the day, it's important to start early, but it's even more important that you grow your career and maintain your savings rate as you do (or hopefully increase it). Also learn how to properly manage and invest your money, since people will be trying to take it from you every step of the way.

Exactly! I'm in my 40s now and I save $2k a month.

I started by saying that in my 20s I didn't save any money, but in 30s I started saving 10% of my income, plus 5% matching. I have a nice nest egg and I've slowly ratcheted up my savings as I've paid down debts and made more money.

Saving for retirement in your 20s is a luxury most people cannot afford. You are better off retiring your student loans and credit card debts, building up an emergency fund, and saving for a downpayment on your house.

The ONLY reason to save in your 20s for your retirement if you have not already fulfilled the above is to get the matching from your work. If they offer matching, then you have to get that free money, but only invest up to the matching. If they offer 5%, put in 5% and not a penny more.

My wife drank $30 in whiskey a week on a part time job. Saving isn't impossible, it just has to be a priority

I'm going through this right now. I'm fresh out of college and finally got a good paying job. Thankfully my company makes contributions to my 401k account regardless if I invest right now.

But right now it's not an option. I need to save as much money as I can on the side in case I get laid off, also trying to save up for an apartment, and paying off my student debt as much as I can, along with other monthly bills.

Once I have more control of my life on all this debt, then I'll start contributing to my 401k and retirement/etc.

I've seen a few people mentioning being barely able to afford their electric bill every month. I'm genuinely curious how much these bills are because in the past year my highest bill was just over $30 and most of the others were just over $20 or less

Where I live (North Queensland, Australia ) electricity for me is about $300 a quarter. That's not using aircon, and having solar hot water). I have no option to get with a cheaper provider as there is only Ergon up here.

$1k a year sounds a lot, but it is less than $3 per day.

I am a little bit hypocritical right now, because I also don't save a lot (except retirement money), but $3 a day sound very managable, even on a budget.

Not if you owe a lot more than that and have to eat. Rent in big cities is very expensive, even if you have roommates. Student loans are burdensome. Transportation to work is a necessity, not a luxury.

If I'd had $1k extra in my 20s, I would have spent it on my credit card debt or paying off bills, not putting it in some retirement account for 40 years down the road.

Rent in big cities is very expensive, even if you have roommates.

Live in a place with a lower cost of living. There are plenty of million person cities that have sub $1000 a month 2 bedrooms in safe areas. Live with a roommate, $500 a month is doable if you're working a job that pays a living wage. If you're not, you need to be looking or find training that'll get you there.

Student loans are burdensome.

2 years community college, completely covered by aggressive applications for scholarships, if not, in low cost loans. I was poor and went to school late, so I was completely covered by pell grants, but the $3000 total my 2 years at community college cost could've been done in a loan or one of the many scholarships in the area.

Get a job that'll pay school expenses with your newly found associate's degree.

$15k-40+k a year for school while not making a full time wage is a poor investment if the projected income for your entry level career hovers from $30-40k a year for the first few years. We need better education for 17/18 year olds applying so they understand the gravity of what loans mean, and the alternative options to them.

Transportation to work is a necessity, not a luxury.

Buy cheap but good, learn to wrench. I own two vehicles worth less than $6000 total, neither has ever broken down on me. They need regular upkeep, but by doing the work with a sub $150 toolset, I'm keeping them going just fine.

I'm no capitalist, but man, people shoot themselves in the foot by naysaying and continuing to waste their time and work and study in ways that'll never give back what they put in. I know so many people who have degrees who didn't listen to counseling, didn't go to job centers, didn't aggressively apply after school who now work as cashiers and waitresses with 4 year degrees. I know people who spent their college years partying and now have $120,000 undergrad bills for a degree they never got. And I know a lot of people who aspire for the greater, then get a job and sink into mediocrity instead of trying to better their situation. We do not have a culture, a government, or a system built to foster time for young adults to explore and grow without significant debt or money already being available to them. It's horseshit, but that's where we're at.

Cheaper cities are cheap because there are no jobs. Moving further out costs you money more in commuting time and moneys.

Cheaper cities are cheap because there are no jobs.

0 jobs at all, right.

What industry do you work in?

What if my job doesn't offer 401k? How do I go about getting a 401k without it being through my place of employment?

You can't get a 401k unless it's through work, but everyone can use an IRA. I recommend looking into starting one with Vanguard or another company like that as early as possible once you have income and are over 18.

I see, thanks!

Use a roth IRA. They are basically the same but an IRA is capped at $5500 annual contribution, it is more liquid, your employer can't match.

As an example, if you have a 401k and leave the company you withdraw the funds into an IRA. Thats how similar they are.

Ohh ok. And it's like a regular savings account? I just deposit money into it regularly till I cap? Or is it like, certain amounts per month or something along those lines?

Okay I am going to quickly break down a roth ira.

A roth IRA is place to invest your money. However unlike a normal brokerage account, you do not pay capital gains tax when you withdraw at 60 years old.

So you will not only have to put money into it but you have to choose what to invest in.

Luckily investing is easy (although it seems hard).

Go to vanguard.com

Open a roth IRA

Contribute money (up to $5500 annually). Doesn't matter how you contribute (one deposit of $5500 or 550 deposits of $10) just don't go over the $5500 in a year.

Then buy a fund called target date retirement X (the x is the year you turn 60).

That is it, really easy.

You can get about 8% returns with this. Which means if you contribute $5500 this year and never contribute again you would have over $55k in 30 years.

If thats the case why isn't everyone retiring as millionaires you ask? Because people are stupid and never pull the trigger.

Just spend 30 minutes setting it up. You owe it to your older self

Oh man! Thank you for this, i needed this to help guide me in the right direction. Thank you! I've looked around before but it seemed so confusing for some reason and didn't really have anyone to tell me how to get started even.

No problem. The biggest thing is just doing it.

If you find that overwhelming then go to betterment.com and open a roth IRA with them. (They have a great user interface and have phone support) however they have less options, which might actually be better in your situation.

Alright, thanks! I'll check it out and see what fits best

Thank you for this. I always get overwhelmed and chicken out. To be clear- if my husband has a 401k, that a different, separate max than the IRA, right? Should we both be doing an IRA? (I don’t work).

Yes. Your husband's 401k and your IRA have a separate max.

If your husband's company matches anything you should do the 401k. If they don't you should do the IRA.

The match up to 6% so that’s what we contribute so far. It’s investing anything beyond that that always gets me hung up.

If you can afford it do both. The match is free money, but there's nothing stopping you from having independent IRAs as well.

I would echo the sentiment to have a Roth. Unlike your husband's 401k, which is pre-tax money you pay taxes on when you finally take it out, a Roth is post-tax money that grows tax-free. So instead of paying taxes on the initial investment + gains (401k) in the future, with a Roth you only pay taxes on the initial investment now and gains are tax-free.

Thank you! I never understood the difference before.

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Yeah, that'd be helpful, and that's why my numbers above are really widely approximate.

It's easy enough to put a spreadsheet together to calculate the principal you'd accumulate and plug in variations on salary, (I don't think you'd have to even consider taxes as 401k and traditional IRA contributions come from pre-tax income) but you just can't predict the annual rate of return unless you choose ultra-conservative investments and that's generally considered to be a big mistake in your 20's and 30's. I'm sure there are sites out there that will do that but finding one without an agenda is the hard part. Morningstar tends to be pretty well-respected, I think, they have some of the better tools out there from what I've seen.

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6% would be a little.. aggressive. As a consultant who once worked with the largest RIA software in the world (Envestnet), I'd shoot for a few points lower than that as a market average as it relates to most people's 401k vehicles.

Related thought on this whole suggestion of maxing out a 401k. Yes, max out company match. But do yourself a huge favor and invest personal money into the SPYDR. If the goal is longterm investment with minimal effort... You CANNOT beat the market. Fire your RIA, if you have one. You don't need to be paying someone 2-5% to be printing out your Scottrade reports and putting them on your "client portal" for you. Do it yourself and the whole world opens up to you <3.

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You're looking at SPY.. The most successful tracker of all securities vehicles and one that I constantly, constantly tell people to dump into. You aren't taking into account the typical mix of mutuals that make up a traditional 401k package offered to companies.

I tried finding resources online for friends and family about the magic of compund interest and why maxing out 401k is the best thing you can do for yourself but it is hard to find an interactive site.

There's a documentary called Bruster's Millions, try that.

SmartAsset or Bankrate have all kinds of calculators for those kinds of things.

Look up "superannuation calculator"

A great visualization and explanation of compound interest: Compound Interest and Retirement

Well crap, as a 27 year old who is finally finishing college and essentially has negative money, this is depressing. But I definitely know I have to start saving.

As a 26 year old with 10% mandatory matched retirement contribution, I can't wait to hit retirement age.

Yup you may want it now but it'll be great later. I have to tell myself that I put 10% into my work retirement

I've got it at 10%. Last year I was hired full time instead of being a temp like all my other past jobs. Soon as I got hired I got told by a few family members to make it as high as it could go and never look back. So far I have about $1k and it feels amazing knowing I have this great job at 23.

Thanks for saying this! I feel much better about starting later and contributing 6%!

Due to Spez attempting to censor the internet I am leaving this site.

None of my jobs offered a 401k until I got the one I have now, after working for 10 years. Wish I had had one sooner. Also, as far as I can tell, my employer does not match.

You could have done an IRA. If your employer doesn't match than I would max an IRA then start doing the 401k

This is exactly what i came to say. If you cant shave off 5% in an average month you will be homeless in two bad months. That's all it takes people 5% 10 months out of the year and you will be gold.

Hey, I'm an 18 year old working an hourly wage job. But I make more than I spend, even while being in college. How do I go about saving for retirement? My job doesn't offer a 401k at all.

You can start with an IRA or Roth IRA (Individual Retirement Account). It's tied to you, not an employer, and you can contribute a maximum of $5500 a year to any combination of the two. Many investors recommend maxing your IRA/Roth IRA before you max your 401k, because you have more control over the IRA (you are usually limited in how you can invest your 401k money based on who administers the company's plan)

Make sure it’s a 401(k) plan worth contributing to first.

There are a lot of really bad plans out there with few choices and high fees. High fees over 40 years is absolutely BRUTAL. At that point your best bet may very well be opening an IRA/Roth IRA on your own. Personally, I tell all my clients to look into Roth IRAs. In all likelihood taxes will be much higher decades from now.

Compare two people putting away "$100" per month. First one does it from 25 to 35 years old and stops. Second one starts when they are 35 and continues all the way to retirement at 65. The first one will have a bigger pile of cash, ten years vs thirty years of saving but all in the timing.

I worked in 401k and a lot of people in their 20’s would cash out their retirement plan when they switched jobs. And most of the time it was so they could go on vacation or buy a car. They just see all that money there that they now have access to because employer sponsored retirement plans don’t allow you to have access to the funds until you quit.

When I would talk to them about what a bad idea it was they would just say their new job has a retirement plan and will just start saving for retirement there.

So not only are they losing out on that money working for them to make them more money they are paying a 10% penalty just to get at their own money and they will have to save more to make up for the loss of cashing out their retirement plan.

Assume two people who make the exact same amount of money their whole life.

Person 1 saves 10% of this paycheck to a 401k from age 18 to 30 then stops forever.

Person 2 starts saving 10% at age 30.

Person 2's will never catch up to person 1s total 401k amount.

I started putting in 12 straight away. I wanna retire early bitches.

Damn I'm 27 putting away 18% with matchings.

I just hit $1250 in my 401K that I started at my internship last summer. I've only been working 10hrs/week for most of it. It adds up!

Just going to point out that this is what a lot of babyboomers did -- usually automatically through their work -- and now every other lostgeneration post is about how "they took it all."

So, yes, do this, but be ready for your kids' friends to hate you in another thirty years.

I say you should do everything within your power to max out your 401K and other retirement funds each year. For me that typically involves contributing 25-50% of each paycheck depending on how quickly I'm trying to max it out (based on how the market is doing). Not everyone will be able to do that but setting a goal to do so will help your odds.

I came to say this too. As soon as I got the chance, I maxed out my 401K. It seemed like all my money was going to savings, but looking back I know that my major expense was beer. I'm glad that I had the sense to save that money.

I've done that every year, for more than 25 years now and you're not kidding. "Nice nest egg" is millions of dollars now, and I'm still not done with my career.

Yup. I started making max contributions when I was 21. I'm 29 now with $65K in my 401K.

I've been feeling stressed out because I only contribute 5% to my IRA per week. This made me feel a lot better about that decision.

Yes, there are two women I work with currently that are both beyond retirement age and it's a reminder that I should save now while I can. Currently 31.

And using a Roth IRA means your contributions are taxed now at your current tax bracket (based on your income). This helps later on when you're most likely in a higher tax bracket and would have to pay the higher bracket rate when you want to take the money out (of your regular IRA).

What if you don’t make enough to be able to set aside chunks of your paycheck to a retirement fund?

I can't but, I do anyways.

I'll be broke either way, and 6% is not even $50 per paycheck if you're that broke.

Those who can't are the people who can afford not to the least.

Even if it's $20 do it. I thought I couldn't save anything at that rate, but as I saw it building slowly it motivated me to save more. When I got a raise I would increase my contributions.

If you can't, you can't, but it's often way easier than people think. Get a raise? Pay off your car? Get a break on rent? Keep living on the same income and put the extra toward retirement. Most people won't miss 5% or so, and that's really only 3.5% considering you don't have to pay taxes on it.

I’ve just recently paid off my car and plan on continuing at least half of that payment into an IRA.

This makes me soooooo happy to hear! I am starting a job (just about to graduate college), and they match 5% of a 401k contribution. It's already been drilled into me about how valuable it is to start saving early, but I've never heard the 10-15% figure in your 30s.

What if im putting 25% at 19?

Then you're doing awesome!

Jesus only 5% I'm in my mid 20's and smack myself if I'm not putting at least 10%. Also have a house payment but I've knocked 70k off that already go me! Also I drive shitty old vehicles so I don't have to make that car payment. I more or less just save that car payment every month towards my whatever money.

5% of your income in a 401k starting in your 20's is worth as much as 10-15% starting in your 30s, roughly.

That requires tripling in 10 years, not accounting for income increases or inflation.

[Citation needed]

  1. Saving: Collect your full 401(k) company match Why it’s key • If you start saving at age 35, you’ll have to put away 16.6% of your income for 30 years to retire well at 65, according to research by Wade Pfau, professor of retirement income at the American College. Begin at 30, and your target drops to 12%. At 25, a steady 8.8% a year until 65 is enough—including the match.

It's a common enough rough estimate. First link I found: http://time.com/money/collection-post/4083714/retirement-moves-20s-30s/

12% vs 8.8% (from your quote) is 35% difference. Plausible and reasonable.

5% and 15% is a 200% difference. Totally not in the same ballpark.

I set my account to take $40 from chequing and put it into savings every week. Also, if I find myself with a big enough excess of money that I know I won't need right now, I just deposit that into my savings. I have managed to total a decent amount so far and it doesn't even feel much different then how I spent money before I started saving. I did not have to change many spending habits since $40 every week isn't too bad (considering it's going back to yourself later).

How do you start a 401k with a job that doesn’t offer one?

Totally agree! I started where I’m at now when I was 21(24 now) and right from the get go I was putting in 10% and the company matched 4% so this whole time I’ve been putting in 14% total to my 401k and I don’t plan on changing it.

And you can use your 401k to get a down payment for a house when you're ready. Generally they'll let you borrow against that with a pretty good rate and you're paying yourself back. Plus the 401k generally follows the stock market so not bad returns.

Can you explain something I've always been worried about?

What about moving around jobs and stuff? I work in software and job hopping is accepted and expected, how would I go about managing this over the next 10 years (until I get the highest possible salary I can squeeze out) and across 8-10 different employers? Some who may not even offer a 401k(although I imagine going forward that should be an option I weigh heavily)

You can typically either keep your 401k with your old provider as long as you have a couple thousand in it, roll it into an IRA, or roll it into your new 401k. It's just a little more paperwork.

Exactly, /u/Necronom1tr0n. And the new company's 401k provider typically makes it really easy, because they make more income by managing larger accounts. So they have an incentive to help you roll over your old account, it's a normal part of the new hire process and pretty painless.

As someone who has seasonal jobs in the service industry, can I start a 401k just myself? My jobs never have/offer one as they are generally mom and pop restaurants

The IRA is designed for people in your situation.

If you haven't started saving by 35 you are basically fucked for retirement.

After saving money in 401k/IRAs since I was 18 I was able to purchase an investment property when I turned 45. It's called a self directed IRA. Not for everyone but if the stock market scares you, it's a great alternative

How do you even get a 401k?

Employers set up 401(k)s -- the name refers to a section of the IRS code. As an individual you can set up an Individual Retirement Account (IRA) through someone like Vanguard or Fidelity.

I have 25% before taxes going to retirement :) I recommend this to everyone (I'm 19)

What is a 401k?

Is this obsession with saving from retirement just american thing? I mean I rather have good time right now while I can feel alright and save something on side so I can have bit fun old too but these massive tightening of belt to save for old age so you can die and leave pile of cash for next gen. I just see so many people saying those over and over here while in my country people save up just a bit here and there.

Granted we have decent pension for everyone who worked during earlier life, free health care, safety nets. Do you not have anything like that?

Our social safety net is pretty weak, if you work your whole life and then retire, you'll get discounted health care and about enough government income for a cheap apartment and very basic groceries. And that's IF the government doesn't cut both programs, which they very well could do.

I don't consider 5% of my paycheck a "massive tightening of my belt", you just set it up to get saved automatically every time and after a month or two most people adjust their budget and don't really miss it.

Fair enough, 5% is not massive it is appropriate even here. I replied to you personally while you are pretty reasonable. What I was referring was people saving much more like someone said you get 2k in tax return to spend 100 and rest to savings and so on.

Yeah, I didn't read through the whole thread but I imagine there's some of the usual dick-waiving. "I save 50% of my income" "Oh yeah, well I save 75%!" etc, LOL.

Nah, in the US just save 5-10% and be smart about buying your house and cars and you'll be ok.

You pretty much explained the reason. The relatively low wage and lack of a social safety net, especially when things get 'serious' (late twenties onwards) make us almost paranoid.

I only started saving for retirement this past coupla years and im hitting mid 30s. Before this I just made enough to live and there was 0 job security. I knew about saving for retirement but I just coulnd't divert it away. To anyone reading this feeling its too late - it isn't a competition. Right now, no matter what stage you are in is the best time to start.

America is a place where you can do so many fun things and buy all sorts of stuff. But there is a feeling of insecurity about the future, and it seems to feel its going to far worse in the future when I'm about to retire.

When you're living paycheck to paycheck like have of America, you can't really afford to drop 5% a week, because that would be debt.

5% of your income in a 401k starting in your 20's is worth as much as 10-15% starting in your 30s, roughly

Well, that's assuming the S&P 500 isn't kissing an all time high and on the brink of a major downturn, which it probably is.

Vanguard did extensive studies on this.

Tldr: if your time horizon is greater than 10 years than it doesn't amount to much of a difference. In fact dollar cost averaging almost always does worse.

Also timing the markets is the number one rule on things not to do.

I don't know why you're still talking about timing markets, I never mentioned it, brought it up or insinuated it.

It's not a set, universal rule that for most investors in most time periods 5% of their income will be worth 10-15% of their income a mere decade later or less. Especially when you account for things like wage growth. There is a probability surrounding those numbers and how advantageous your early saving will actually be. Kids who put their savings into the NASDAQ before dot com took over a decade just to break even...

But a 401k does dollar cost average so it literally doesn't matter.

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I didn't say you should time the market, I'm specifically addressing the claim that

5% of your income in a 401k starting in your 20's is worth as much as 10-15% starting in your 30s, roughly

This is not true if your 20s exist just before a crash.

Don't 401ks basically contribute to the cycle of exploitation of workers/customers that a demand for constant growth by investors in the stock market has created?

Do people actually think this?

Wealth creation through mutually-beneficial investment is exploitation of the workers now?

Aren't a lot of the bad business practices that people complain about coming about because companies on the public exchange are trying to pursue infinite growth because of investor expectations of quarterly returns?

Well yeah companies have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize their investments. But shareholders aren't just the board of directors, it's also the average person's 401k.

I would compound this by also saying pay down any and all debt as fast as possible first. Once you are out of debt and your bills are manageable then throw in consistently. Paying off debt is an instant raise. Also never going into debt at all is essential. House debt is realistic but you if you plan you can pay that off too. Also planning appropriately should get you to avoid any unnecessary financing in the future (car/furniture etc).

Take this shit seriously now in your 20's.

This isn’t entirely true. If you can borrow money at a low interest and use that money to gain more interest, the money is basically working for you. Debt connected to your home is a good example where you can often get very low interest because of the security provided. Invest this money and the loan is earning you money long term.

Debt connected to your home

We're talking about 20 somethings in an economy where 40 somethings don't reliably have homes. Your advice is probably true but ultimately meaningless to the overwhelming majority of people.

you need to be in a good place for this though. if you are the type of person who can honestly say 'this money would have gone to my student loan debt, but instead its going into a high interest savings account' then by all means, but if you aren't, you should probably be paying down that debt

Once you have good enough credit, there’s virtually no reason not to finance a car loan. If it costs you 2 grand over the life of the loan (6 years) that’s FAR better both quality of life wise and money wise than hoarding away 40 grand.

I disagree, you can use that $2k literally anywhere else and it is of more use to you individually, it is going directly to the bank for the privilege of them taking it. Additionally, I wouldn't "horde" the savings of no car payment, that money is going into something else I can use, investing/house updates/college fund for kids/hell just a vacation.

Additionally I don't see many in thier 20's WITH good credit OR making payments on time OR getting a reasonable car. Those are the people who get fucked because they DON'T use the credit system to their advantage, it's to the bank's advantage, that's why financing exists!

Also I don't see the gap in quality in a new/financed vehicle compared to a properly shopped and understood used. You can walk into any dealership (and I live in MA where it is crazy expensive and crazy predatory) with $15k saved up and buy an awesome accord or camry flat out that you can drive no problem with plenty of performance for 10 years. The flip side is you see people looking at a $25k Impala, they finance it, pay huge interest, beat it up, and it lasts 5 years.

Quality of life is WAYYY better without a car payment and you STILL get to drive a nice car.

Hoarding away 40 grand is going to significantly diminish my quality of life over many years far more than 2 grand does. 2 grand is also worth less over the life of the loan due to inflation.

You don’t see many in their 20’s with good credit or making their payments on time? Okay you simply don’t know any people in their 20’s then. That statement alone should disqualify anything you have to say.

Who is hoarding away $40k? I don't believe that I ever said that anywhere. What is that argument exactly? Are you confusing my point that saving for a car (I guess that could be $40k but buying a $40k car is also foolish, particularly in your 20s) means "hoarding"? It literally is the opposite, you save for a specific sum then you SPEND it on a car so that you AVOID losing money in interest/fees etc and increasing your monthly expenses (the financing trap). And yes I do see 20 somethings in trouble all the time, you don't? You don't know about the student loan crisis? The credit card crisis? You don't see the fact that financial literacy isn't taught in schools as an issue? Have you been on r/personalfinance at all? Hence the reason for this thread and it's popularity, many are desperate for good advice about their upcoming responsibilities. I also said "many" which does not mean "all", and does not even mean "the majority", so please try to listen to my point rather than ascribing arguments that I'm not making (putting words into my mouth).

I'm also 28 and my wife is 28 and our entire circle of friends in in their late 20's. All of my 4 sisters and their SOs and friends are in their 20's.

Despite that fact that argument means absolutely nothing to the conversation/your point and is a classic ad homenim attack (the lowest form of debate/conversation).

If you'd like to discuss the merits of financing I'm happy to do so, but please let's stay on topic and listen to each other, like many others have done in this thread.

You absolutely should not always pay down debt first. If you want the peace of mind that's one thing but for example if you're paying 4% interest on loans your extra money will almost certainly be doing more work as a 401k/ira in an indexed fund if you assume a long term average of 7%. Even if it's closer to 5 or 6% that still adds up to be a ton over time.

typically the advice is that you should pay off credit card debt before you do anything else, such as invest. not all debt.

Well of course. Any credit card debit is gonna be at the very least 2x the interest of whatever you're making on the market.

I'm just saying it makes more sense to look at your interest rates vs expected yields and go from there. "Always pay down debt" and "Always invest extra cash" are equally wrong statements.

Concur. Debt is not your enemy. Long-term debt at a rate below an index 500 fund, just stick with the terms. Focus in your in your 20's should be compounding interest.

This is fine, unless you're company offers a match. Always always always put in enough to max out your match. If you don't put in to your match, you are missing out on an extra instant 50-100% return on your money. Unless your debt is from a sketchy loan shark with a tire iron, even the worst debt won't charge you 50-100% interest. The only exception to this would be if you really and truly need that money to make rent/minimum payments.

im almost 26, in a couple months. i have always thought debt was scary af so i never got any that i couldn't pay off in a year and that was once, for a vehicle. i haven't gone into any other debt and am debt free right now. though i only have about $3.6k saved up and i am not currently adding any money to savings but i know i should.

Had an $18,000 car loan at 20 years old, that sucked. Vowed to never have car debt again. Sure my vehicles cost me a bit more on maintenance, but I don’t have a liability losing money, I have an older car that likely won’t lose any more money for me. I hope to never have a car loan ever again.

I would compound this by also saying pay down any and all debt as fast as possible first.

Depends upon the debt. 5% (deductible) interest on a student loan is vs. an average of 8-10% returns on a 401k (even higher over the last year or two). At least max out your company match, and then pay down debt. Depending on location, I'd suggest buying a home before paying down student loan debt, as well.

Credit card or other bad debt is another story.

I would compound this by also saying pay down any and all debt as fast as possible first.

I don't know about that. I was taking on a little bit of student loan debt (granted this was when rates were more favorable for borrowing, pre-crash) while also putting away money in the Roth IRA during college. I'm glad I got used to not living off my entire income while working just part-time. It got me in a good habit to maintain after graduation too. It seems an individual decision.

I've deliberately taken out three loans that I can pay off so that I can build a credit history. Going into debt and knowing you can pay it off is very smart. My three loans have only been a year each, all under 5k.

Why do that instead of just getting a credit card and paying it off every month?

One reason that came to mind is that with a loan you could have automatic withdrawal pay it off- thus preventing you from carrying a balance and paying the minimum.

Same with credit cards

Because I'd rather have a low interest credit card. Here, it's hard to get one when you're young and have no score that doesn't have high interests rates.

Credit card is a far better direction. I got my first credit card around 8 months ago I pay it off twice a month and I took my credit score from nothing to >750 I'm well above the median credit score of an American in their 50s and I'm only 23 get a credit card that you can pay every month and just use it instead of a debit card you get the added benefit of cash back it's the much better way to go.

I need a credit score before getting a card with a good %, but I'm looking at that next. Just paid off my third loan. CC is the next move!

Interest rate don't mean shit as long as you pay it each month.

In my position, I would like to have a little give.

You might just want to bite the bullet and get a crap percentage for a couple months and pay it off immediately to build credit.

I should be fine now and I'm looking at credit plans soon.

What would be the best way to invest/put away the funds saved for retirement?

EDIT: Aussie so 401k isn't relevant and I feel like my super is pretty exxy to maintain.

I'm a Canadian, and not a financial advisor.

A quick googling returns the following from the keywords "Australian Couch potato investing"

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2298524

If you are interested, I can get in to this further.

Appreciate the response! I've read that thread twice and it's still taking some time to understand - finance and anything to do with maths has never been my strong point :(

Well, if you need help, just ask.

Appreciate it! Expect a PM in the future :)

First and foremost, you should pay off debts, then make use of whatever tax advantaged accounts are available to you. In the US, that's usually a 401k and/or an IRA.

For these accounts, index funds are a good bet. No idea if/how Australia changes things, but in general the consensus on places like /r/personalfinance and /r/financialindependence is to put your money mostly in the stock market in index funds covering a range of types of assets. You can select the funds and proportions yourself, but the simplest approach is to put your money in a "Target Date Fund". You specify a target date for retirement, and the fund spreads your money across a range of index funds based on how far away from retirement you are (further away = more risk and reward, closer = higher % in very stable goverment bonds).

The personalfinance wiki has a lot of good information, including a great flowchart for how to manage your money, in order of priority. Here's the Australian version.

I always aim to pay for things outright and have currently saved ~$30k, not including my HECs (gov pays for uni and we pay them back with no interest once we make over a certain amount).

From my very basic understanding of index funds, our options are really not that great. As quoted from somewhere else "We pay more brokerage for ETF trades, more expense ratio per year, have larger spreads."

Thank you for the links though, I'll definitely explore it when I can really wrap my head around finance. /u/jaxcy provided a super helpful link but my brain goes mush when it comes to finance and accounting!

Which super fund are you with? Generally retail funds have higher fees, but any super fund you’re with should offer free financial advice - normally you’re paying for it already out of your fees

I'n with AustralianSuper. Never realised that superfunds provided free financial advice, I'm definitely going to check that out, thank you!

Australian Super advice options

TL;DR - basic or straightforward advice is free, complex advice they will charge you a fee

Appreciate the help. Out of curiosity, what superfund are you with?

Your super is generally the safest way to save for retirement. My advice is to find a good industry super fund (Hesta or Rest are good options) and then salary sacrifice additional contributions on a weekly basis. $50 or so a week when you’re young will make a massive difference. Industry super funds usually give the best returns and don’t pay financial advisors for non existent services.

Most super funds allow you to choose your investment strategy so you should choose the higher risk/more aggressive strategy when you are younger because you get better returns and can ride out peaks and troughs over the next 30 years. Then you taper off to more conservative options as you get older.

Oh, and make sure you roll over any money in old super funds into the new one. This is surprisingly easy - you can do it all with a few mouse clicks on the myGov website.

I'm currently with AustralianSuper but I'll check out Rest when I have the time. I'll look into making salary sacrifice additional contributions but I only work casual so $50 is easily 1/4 of my pay. I'm in my 20s so a more aggressive strategy seems alluring but I've always been more on the cautious side - will definitely give it a try though!

I wouldn’t worry about salary sacrificing any additional just yet then - once you get a full time job it’s something to consider.

But definitely roll all your super into one account if you haven’t already. Australian Super is an industry super fund so you’ve picked a good choice there. Just sign up for or check your myGov account and it will list whether you’ve got anything in other funds, then you can roll them over online. Ditch anything run by the banks especially because as the royal commission is demonstrating, they are not in it for your benefit.

You can also check your super statement to see if you’re paying any insurances you don’t really need as well. That will add a few dollars to your super every year until you decide you want insurance.

As for the aggressive option - you’re in your 20s so you can ride out peaks and troughs. Overall you get a better return over your lifetime but you have to be prepared to take a hit every few years and taper it off over time. I’m very fiscally conservative myself and this is reasonably low risk if you start tapering early. But again, this is something to mostly consider when you start working full time and want to make sure you’re going to be in a good financial position in 30 years time. It’s good that you’re thinking about this now though because I was well into my 30s before I even thought about my super. Good luck!

How is your super exxy to maintain?

I'm pretty young and this is my first super. It seems kinda pricey to have $2.5k contributed and more than $500 taken away in fees and taxes.

If your fees are too high, change provides. They’re all different. And I didn’t think you’d be paying tax on super unless it’s voluntary contribution?

AustralianSuper is actually rated quite decently on CanStar but I guess going into it I never realised that Supers are costly to maintain. I have been on the lookout for another one, but I've been very complacent as anything to do with finance makes me want to hurl, haha. And nup, made a thread about it a few months back and was told everything's taxed at 15% going in :(

My company recently did a study on saving.

A 20 year old who started saving early wound up win nearly $1,000,000 more in retirement than a 32-35 year old saving the same amount.

Start saving now. Put it somewhere you can’t access unless desperately needed. Like live or die desperate. 401k for example.

Anecdotal example, my buddy and I were hired to the same position with the same salary at the same time. I'm talking an ex boss recruited us both the same day, and we accepted, we were truly identical hires, we were in our early 20s. He paid into 401k enough to get the match, I did not as I knew nothing about it. 8 years later he asked what my 401k balance was as he was excited to have exceeded 50k in his.... Mine was $0. We had the same lifestyle the whole time, went out the same, vacationed the same, our expenses were roughly similar, yet he had 50 grand saved and I did not. I changed that immediately, but that 50k head start today makes his grow much faster than mine. Don't skip 401k.

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No, 26 isn't too late.

Just remember though that if you save from 26-66, what you save from 26-36 (the first 10 years) will account for about half of your total balance in retirement, while what you save from 36-66 (the last 30 years) will account for the other half. So those first 10 years are very important.

The top post is telling to spend money and travel, now you're telling me to save money, which is it?!?!

Depends on whether your family will support you travelling or not... Which for most people means "Get to work".

Bro this all the way. In my 20s my wife and i started our retirements. I was thinking it was stupid cause i could use that money at the time but I trusted her. AM I GLAD I FUCKIN DID.

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I have been doing this since the second I got a job. My goal has always been to get my own house (they are relatively inexpensive here), so for the past year I've been working I've saved up 4k. I honestly can't even believe that, but seeing all that money on your bank account really raises your self esteem and reminds you that working hard will be well worth it one day.

I invest like a madman now at 30, but I really wish I started at 18. It would have made a huge difference. I threw a lot of money at an old Trans Am instead. That was fun and I'm in great financial shape right now, but I could be waaaay better off if I hadn't done that.

Ira.. start now. Invest as much as you can or the allowed amount per year. You can also do safe stocks on the side. Amazon and Netflix have been pretty steady for me.

To piggyback off your comment, if you work for a company that does employee match savings for an IRA put in at least as much as they’ll match.

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Exactly. Even if you don’t plan on staying with the company long enough to become fully vested they will usually prorate how much you can keep or what they put in.

safe stocks

Two extremely similar tech stocks 15 years into a bull run

Not just saving for retirement.

Everything. There isn't enough time for anything!

So many of my friends made the mistake of thinking their 20's would last forever, they had all the time in the world for 'serious stuff' later and then ran head first in 30 and were some how surprised they didn't own a house, a car, have a husband/wife, any kids or a decent career/career option. Then they ask me, 'how did you do it!' like i performed some sort of magic trick.

If it's not what you want, then that's fine! different strokes and all that.

But if your expectation for your life is to move out, get a nice place, get married, have some kids have a decent job or a decent salary you need to start working on that waaaay before you hit 30.

You don't hit 30 and magically become and adult with all that stuff, it's hard work, you need to work on it put time into it. That's not to say there isn't time for fun as well, but you can't party hard through your 20's then cram all the responsibility in between 29 and 30 to 'catch up'.

The power of compound interest starting in your 20s can’t be underestimated

Just to do a back of the napkin calculation: it’s generally accepted that investments in the overall stock market will double every 10 years (I estimate 12, but 10’s easier to calculate for now).

So save $1000 your first year Out of college, then $2000 the next year, then $2000 again, then $4000, then $4000, $4000, $4000, $4000, $5000, $5000. Should be possible if not always easy. Because the first years’ saving are adding value during that time, at the end of the first ten years, you haven’t just saved $35,000. you’ve really saved closer to $48,000 based on an average 7% market return.

Then double that for every decade until you retire. $96k by 40, $192k by 50, $384k by 60. Even without saving anything else after age 30 (which you should still do), you could end up with close to $750,000 by retirement at age ~70.

Retiring at 70 sounds awful lol

Also a lot of us won’t ever make it to use all that sweet retirement money so don’t deprive yourself of fun stuff now just to get that crazy huge percent going into retirement.

Exactly this! Not saving earlier is HUGE.

Start a RRSP, even if you can only afford $10 a month into it. Every bit counts!

If your employer is matching your contribution of 5% even 2% then at MINIMUM contribute that much. That is free money at that point.

If you look at this and don't immediately think: compounding interest... Go look up compounding interest.

Okay so how tf does this work, I got a 401k and when I switched jobs I had to wait a year to be eligible and they wouldn’t let me keep my account open so I cashed out With everyone switching jobs as often as they do how can one build a 401k

I have switched jobs several time in my career. NEVER was I forced to cash out from my 401k between jobs. However I was able to open a qualified account though a financial advisor and move the cash from the old job's account into my private account without any penalty. This way, I was more in control of where the cash was invested.

Google makes it looks like the rule is that accounts under $5000 can be forced to rollover to an IRA and under $1000 can be forced to cash out. May be what happened to OP.

Came to say this. If you're a young person with a job START AN IRA NOW!!! Even if you can only put away a very small amount without finding yourself broke, do it. Any amount saved is better than nothing and it will literally pay dividends later.

Take a percentage of the increase

Specifically, 100%.

See also www.mrmoneymustache.com.

I wish I realized this when I was younger, but such is the curse of being raised lower-middle class:

Don't think in terms of what percentage of your income you can save, but what percentage of your income you can live on. Had I thought about this earlier, I'd be halfway to semi retirement.

Or don't save and hope that in the next 70 years the Earth transforms into a Star Trek utopia.

Money begets money. The Richest Man in Babylon was a life-changing book for me and I recommend it to everyone!

Compound interest is your friend. A little money saved regularly and early is a hell of a lot more powerful than a lot of money saved late.

If you have a job that offers 401k matching, at the very least put in the maximum that they’ll match.

When I was young I didn't have a real concept of what saving for retirement meant. I thought it was just some life-planning requirement so that you have a lot of money past a certain age.

It simply didn't occur to me that having a certain amount of money stored away would mean I could just stop working. I think if I'd seen it like that early on, I would've done things very differently. Now I'm looking at my finances as a linear path between now and the end of my mandatory career, and considering the steps I take in terms of how they impact that timeline. Sadly I figured this out after incurring a ton of (mostly student loan) debt, so it'll be a while before I get to the part of the plan that actually involves watching account balances grow.

Best advice I was ever given that I actually followed. My first employer told me save 10% of your income, pretend you never made it. "Pay yourself first".

I am 35, I have a home, rental home, and a decent sized 401k in addition to my retirement and whatever Social Security will give me. I attribute it to that advice

If it were possible to do so, we would be. Tell me, what portion of the average 9 dollar an hour paycheck should be put away into a 401k (if the employer even offers it) ?

I chose my words carefully...

If it is possible for you to put something away...

I totally get it that it is not possible for everyone to put something away on a regular basis. That being said, if your employer has a 401K program where they match some of your dollars, then doing anything other that investing (in yourself) up to the limit of the match is just leaving dollars on the table. The only reason to do that is if you really just can't afford it. However, you need to look at your lifestyle and ask if there is anything you can do to reduce your outgo before you just walk away from that pile of cash.

Hard to save for retirement when you got student loans to pay and you work to pay your bills.

Edit: not sure why I'm being downvoted.

If you go out to the bar once a month then you can save for retirement.

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic but I've actually never been to a bar LOL

Relatives mention this from time to time, but I'm honestly convinced that the world will fuck itself over in such a major way in the next 40 years that there won't be a "retirement".

Between global warming, AB warfare and just plain old technological advancement to the point that most work will be automated and the idea of judging what someone gets by the amount of work he or she does or did becomes stupid... I think the idea of retirement might just outlive itself.

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Sure, all I meant to say is that "retirement" usually involves saving money in some institutionalized way, with a bank, the government or a company and those might not last the next half century, either individually or as a concept.

Of course you should prepare for old age, but it's hard to predict what the best method of doing that is.

Ok well good luck with that. I'll just be over here maxing out my Roth IRA and 401k every year, and we'll see where we're both at in 40 years.

This is why we need to gut social security. So people who think they can coast through to retirement can't mooch until the day they die.

At least in my country retirement is paid for by the working population, so gutting social security now would literally put the old and sick on the streets.

So that's going to be a "no" from me.

Just because I don't think it'll help me in the future doesn't mean it's not helping people who need it right now.

Ive been trying to get my first part time job for like a year and a half, im planning to put half of every pay check into a savings account.

Pension Admin here.... far too true. It's so sad how many people I see whose accounts are not NEARLY enough to provide for a retirement. I always pray a bit that they have additional accounts elsewhere.

Yeah but my job doesn’t offer a 401k... help? I save money on my own for now, in my own savings... built a decent amount so far

Every job I've worked, even the part time work during University, I've put 4% into my counties government matched retirement fund. It's already netted me several thousand towards retirement or my first house.

Also don’t forget you might actually die before reaching it so don’t go absolutely unreasonably berserk saving at the same time.

Pay yourself first.

There is plenty of time to save for your retirement if you start in your 20's.

I just put everything away on a regular basis and then have difficulty rationalizing pulling any back out for leisure.

Of course, that's in a savings account. I don't know the purpose of a 401K

I put 4% towards my retirement every paycheck. Hope it pays off!

Boom. If I could change one thing (and somehow magically still have the same people in my life) about my life, it would be setting up an IRA or something right when I started working and keeping up with it. Minimizing debt and paying it off.

A good example of compound interest is that someone who puts 1000 in an account for a year for the ages 20-30 with a 3% interest rate and letting that egg sit until retirement will earn you more than if you put in 1000 from age 30 every year until retirement.

I'm just planning to become independently wealthy by the time I can no longer work. If I don't, I off myself. Avoids being a burden on society as well!

Also don't have to worry about putting all that money away just to get T-boned by some drunk driver at 28.

Don't think that there is plenty of time to save for retirement.

Man, imagine how much growth you'd get if you actually put money in a Roth IRA at 18...

Yes! Any money saved for retirement I your 20’s is “worth” soooo much more than what you contribute in your late 30’s and after.

Thank you for this!

This. So much this.

My parents are encouraging me to throw money in a Roth IRA and buy some gold.

I’m making sure I’m doing both while they’re still around to support me.

My work allows 5% after one year of working there. After every year you're allowed to increase that by 1% up until 8%. I plan on using that to its fullest.

A few years ago a banker somehow talked me into opening a retirement account at 20. Because I could afford it due to getting scholarships AND working a job, I figured I'd put $100 from every single paycheck (which come every two weeks) in that account. Two-ish years later, I've hit $5000 in savings. I don't know if I'll always be able to keep it up, but I'd take the security of knowing I've got that money there than the extra discretionary funds any day. In a weird way, it actually lets me spend kinda guiltlessly because I know I'm also making real efforts to save.

PS check if you can get a Roth 401k and check if your employer matches any amount of contributions toward it.

Right when I graduated, it had just become easy for normal people to use the internet for stock trading. Now there are no-commision apps where you can move/monitor everything anywhere. There's zero reason not to use these apps and start investing starting today.

Assuming a retirement age of 60, the same principal invested every year from only 25-35 years old will be equivalent to the investment from years 35 - 60. Start investing early and compound interest will help you... A lot.

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I'm not sure. P(1+r)^t/n or something like that. I honestly think that if you feel behind, just make sure you start doing it now. And do a little bit each day, month, year. Get a budget and understand what your goals and what you need to save and start it. You will realize through a budget that there's a lot of behavioral things you can change without impacting your quality of life.

I [24M] recently started a new job. They match 6% on 401k and give another 3% to an ERIC account. I chose to contribute 12%, with a 2% annual increase until I hit 25%. I’m so angry at myself for going this long without putting money away.

I realised this the other night when two ladies I work with were discussing how much they have in their super (Australian retirement fund). They're both around 50/60 and only have about $200k so far.

I started putting 6% away in 1996 when I started working. I have over 110k in a 401k right now. I would never saved that myself. I'm 45 now. Just start it.

Even it you think it's paltry like 20 or 30 bucks a paycheck, outside of a retirement fund, Direct deposit it into an account and do not carry that atm card on you. An emergency will emerge and you are going to be happy you have a few hundred or thousand dollars on hand. I've been doing this since I got my first job at 23 years old, and have steadily increased that deposit as the years have gone on. I'm in my 40's now, and I'm confident I can survive any rough spot, and it has bailed me out a few times.

THIS! Even if its your first job, $20 a paycheck or even a month is $240/$480 a year. Good to having savings if you own a car, tires and brakes are expensive.

I've read somewhere that it's wise to put 20% of your monthly income as savings.

I have 7.5% of my check going into my Roth 401k every week! Increases of .5% every few months or a year.

Living a lifestyle you can't afford.

Along with this, not saving money. Emergency fund, retirement, etc. Even just a little bit is better than nothing. Saving big chunks like tax returns instead of “treating yo’ self” is hella smart.

That's not to say don't ever treat yourself - treat yourself responsibly. Got a $2k tax return? Sweet! Spend $100 or less on something nice, and squirrel the rest away for emergencies!

Also, make sure your employer adjusts your withholdings so that you don't have to wait until your tax refund to get that money.

This is very good advice. I found the sweet spot this last year where I could adjust withholding on my W4 and in doing so, I gave myself an additional $200-350 a paycheck. That's half my rent right there. I'd rather have the additional take home each month than a big ass refund check once a year.

See I’m the opposite. I would rather have less per month and have a refund because if I never see the money I can’t spend it on frivolous shit

I LOVE the refund for this reason: I'm more likely to spend it if it's just a little bit more, whereas if it's a chuck I'm more likely to put it in savings.

Oh I’m still bad about putting it to savings. But i make myself spend the return on things I need. This year it went to new tires and wheels and two months rent in advance

I'd say that's a good investment for your money to be honest. Much better than frivolous things throughout the year

Exactly. I needed a new set of all seasons because I ran the last ones bald by 35k miles (stock tires on the car are always shite). The wheels let me mount my snow tires to them so that I pay way less each year swapping them out.

And rents rent. Having to not worry about the single biggest payment for the next month is great.

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HA, interest rates suck a fat dick here. I’m not going to worry about the $4 of interest I lost.

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That’s true, and depending how much I was paying into taxes I could see why it would work. But for someone who makes less than 30k a year, the amount that goes to taxes is so small that the amount of mental work and random ass fees I would incur just doesn’t feel worth it.

But if you invest it when you get it, or increase your 401k allotment you save the money and get the returns faster

You’re not wrong, I’m just saying I’m not responsible enough with my money to do that. Though I guess if I told my employer to invest the x amount per month I’d lose in taxes to the 401k and I never saw it it’d be fine

Different strokes and all that. I'm paying down debt, so the extra cash comes in mighty handy and helps me not live paycheck to paycheck.

How did you end up finding the sweet spot?

The rough way is to take what your return is from last year, divide it by 12 (for months) and have that much less withheld from your check every month.

This is going off topic but do Americans actually get paper checks when they get paid or is that just what you call it when you get paid via a direct debit?

Most do direct deposit now, I just called it a check.

Some employers require you to have either a bank account to direct deposit to, or will give you a pay card that I suspect is similar to what you call Direct Debit. However, this is all still usually processed as part of a payroll, and employers doing direct deposit will still provide you with a receipt or invoice of sorts that shows income tax withholdings and any other math that may occur before you get the money. Some businesses still offer the option to receive physical checks, which is pretty much the same exact printout as you receive with direct deposit without a "This is not a check" portion on one and not the other.

Edit: Wow, ramble fest. TLDR: You used to get a check on payday, so when you get a check, it's just a holdover term that encompasses getting paid.

Either! There's direct deposit or regular checks

Basically, I divided my refund from the previous tax year by 24 and adjusted each month until I made up the difference in my checks. I changed my allowances on my W-4 each month until I was happy I was paying enough state and federal taxes to not owe. I'm sure there's an easier way to do it, but this worked for me.

I still have some wiggle room to play with, especially since we just started a new union contract in February and have two more raises coming this year, but I'm content with my take home for now.

Ah gotcha, makes sense. I’ll have to do that!

Do you get paid twice a month or what? That's a huge refund you were getting, what was your employer thinking withholding that much?

Yep, twice a month. And they don't control it, or, at least I don't think they do since I can go in whenever I want and change my allowances. It was initially set at one when a coworker tipped me off that we could change it. I'm set at ten now, and I received a combined $180 state/fed return this year after getting something like $2800 back last year.

Can you explain this to me? I always thought you could only access your tax return after the end of the financial year.

Your employer withholds a certain amount of money from your paychecks to pay your taxes. If you get a huge tax return at the end of the year, your employer was probably withholding too much money (not anybody's fault, it's easier to withhold and get a return than it is to owe taxes). Obviously for previous years you can't change it, but if you get $2,000+ as a return, you should talk to your employer about withholding less money for next year. It's basically like getting a raise. A $2,000 "raise" would be about $75 every other week.

Of course you may get a large return for other reasons. Maybe you donated a lot of money, maybe you bought a house, etc.

Adjusting your withholding status has little to nothing to do with your yearly tax returns, actually! You should be able to go to whoever handles payroll at your place of employment and ask to change your number of exemptions/allowances at any time. :)

What exactly do you mean ? Barring a major life event when would you adjust your withholdings why ?

You would adjust your withholdings whenever you realize that you're withholding too much money.

It's not like insurance, you can ask your employer to change how much tax is withheld whenever you want (some companies use systems you can log in to and change it yourself).

"Budget the luxuries first" -- Robert Heinlein. The trick is to, as is said above, budget REASONABLE luxuries based on your income level. But those luxuries should be budgeted for, because all but the masochists require SOME pleasure to go with their joy.

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we are too broke bro

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My trick is to get games that have high replayibility like Smash Bros Melee, Fortnite, Pokemon...well that's about all I play besides Clash Royale lol

Same case!

I like playing games instead wasting money outside!

Add me on steam ucefkh

Let's play pubg

Call it the broke's squad ok?

That's what I've been saying for years to my personal tax clients. It's sound advice and allows you to eventually afford the lifestyle you want.

The amount you could spend would depend on your current financial situation. There's nothing wrong with blowing all of it if you have all of your ducks in a row and that's what you want to do

I treated my student loans to a healthy bonus payment!

FYI, it's called a tax refund, not a return. A refund is the money you receive; a tax return is the name of the form you send to the government.

Thanks Nissan GT-R V6 or v8? How much hp?

Twin turbo V6. Not enough HP.
:P

Better

Golf 1 V8 1200hp ;)

There's always a faster car. :) Congrats on hitting 1,000+ hp!

Thanks 😀 bro but I don't own any car just fantasize about it

https://youtu.be/pqeZapXbDTg

Buying a squirrel is no small commitment!

I haven’t squirreled in ages!

I’m gonna use mine to buy a motorcycle because uhh justifications.

I'm in my late 20s and i've finally come to realize this. I took $1,000 for bills (paid off 3 cards), $250 for something nice for me (hair and nails), and the rest i put away.

Wish i had been thinking this way for a long time.

Very nice girl ;) keep it up!

You're doing well 😉

The great thing is, once you get that emergency fund nice and fat, and are putting away a good amount for retirement you can save up for the big things like a car or a big down payment on a house. THEN you're saving on the interest you would have been paying

Yes! I saved most of my tax refund, but I had to dip a bit into it recently because my cat had to have some teeth extractions done and that was expensive.

Exactly , I’d also like to elaborate on the “treating yourself”.

Please do it, just show restraint. Don’t wanna act like I’m some sort of soothe sayer, but you don’t wanna save your whole life and not live a little every once in awhile.

Just imagine saving your whole life and than “boom”, life threatening cancer and all of your saving are wiped because of it.

( the example is a bit extreme but I hope it gets my point across)

On the topic of tax returns:

Don't treat it like "free money". It was yours to begin with. It's just an interest-free US bond.

treating yourself throughout the year makes it easier to keep on saving

Also change yo damn withholdings so you aren't giving the government a several thousand dollar interest free loan next year.

Put the rest in a moderately aggressive robo-advisor account! Get a little market loss? Nbd you would have spent the money away anyway. Market gains? Free money!

Id say get your urgent debts dealt with, fix stuff like your car if you need it, go to the doctor for any pending issues that kind of thing. That way you can prevent an emergency while you have the edge.

But I guess that depends on how well off you are, and how capable you are of affording this stuff without a big payout. If you got nothing to worry about now, by all means, splurge a couple hundred then save the rest.

Who the fuck gets a 2k tax return?

Lol we're talking to people in their 20's, of whom the majority likely are not squirreling a damn thing, but rather borrowing less. The whole generation starts in the red.

What 20-something gets a $2k tax return. I'm nearing 40 and I get a couple hundred bucks, tops. (married, no kids)

It's the tuition credits. They can get really big and last a few years if the new grad is making so-so money.

Apparently I graduated at the wrong time. I still have $30k in Sally May loans and graduated in 2003. Never got a tax break on that shit.

Everyone i know seems to be getting these massive tax returns and im stuck here unable to afford my rent always handing in my p45s ensuring I am on the correct tax code from day one :(

yeah my brother for the first year has 2 kids and got $8,000 back. 1 month later he was being evicted from his apartment . How do people think frivolous spending like that is going to work out for them.

buy the organic beans and rice

'squirrel the rest away'. I like that.

I put 100% to student loans 😩 should probably add a few dollars to an emergency fund ugh

I got a 5k tax return (I worked a lot and I payed off school with incurring interest). That shit immediately went 50/50 into TFSA and RRSP.

Then change your withholdings so you stop giving the government a 2k loan interest free.

That seems more than a little austere. You're talking 5% of the return

YES. This is the advice I give people. Use a small portion of a big payday to do something nice for yourself and then slam the rest on debt/put it in savings. That way you've been responsible AND don't feel like you're cheating yourself out of a little well earned pleasure.

I try and spend my tax return on something I can claim on tax the following year - last year it was a new pair of docs for work cause mine were splitting and this year I'm buying a new laptop cause mine is about to die and I just started post grad.

Anything left over goes straight in the savings and the receipts are saved for the accountant.

I literally just got an almost 2k tax return and am wondering what small thing to buy myself

Would love to save, but I used mine to pay off huge debts. Used $100 to treat myself, the rest went to debt. Better than pocketing the return and ignoring the debt.

spend $100 on a squirrel, noted.

How much should I squirrel away for emergencies?

Refund. The return is what you file.

Why the fuck do you have a 2k tax return? Uncle Sam really enjoys your interest free loan

Oh look, one of those people.

Obviously it isn't ideal to have a 2k return, but it isn't that big of a deal either... Unless you've got some amazing investments going on with huge returns, you aren't missing out on much.

Or if you're barely making ends meet, that's an extra ~$180 per month that could be in your paycheck..

If you are barely making ends meet, you've got bigger financial problems than having slightly too high withholdings.

...like not understanding the money you're making and why it's a dumb idea to just let it be held back for a year in taxes?

Except most of it wouldn't be held back for a year. Do you get a giant paycheck at the start of the year and then never get paid again until the next year?

Obviously having too high withholdings isn't good, but people on here make it sound like it is a way bigger deal than it is. For instance, I always here people talking about how much money they could have made by investing it. If we use the 2000 dollars that guy mentioned earlier and assume it is withheld evenly throughout the year and that their investments make a 9% return (which is pretty average), they would be missing out on about 93 dollars...

It's not that it's a big deal, which it isn't for most people, it's that it doesn't really make sense to do it. Some people actually do it on purpose and that's just silly.

$93 is still $93 more. It's less about how much you could have made and more about making good decisions. Having your money withheld for no reason isn't a great one. Furthermore, actually choosing to hold something like $100 every pay period so you get a refund is really just stupid planning. There's even people in this thread talking about how it's a great idea.

They just haven't had that moment yet where they realise they're screwing themselves out of that money.

Tuition credits, in Canada at least ... that can be a huge deductible and it's only accessible after you get a job.

Mine was like 1400 and I don't make too much. 2K isnt that big of a return

Unless you're getting the EITC your tax return shouldn't be anywhere near that much, adjust your withholdings that money could have been earning you interest instead of sitting in the governments hands.

If you've got a 2K tax return, you're giving the government an unnecessary loan for most of the year. Adjust your withholdings and invest the difference yourself. If your issue is 'if I see it, I'll spend it,' have it go automatically to a savings account, so you never see it.

Just got $3200 back yesterday and I’m in serious need of additions to my wardrobe and $119 concert tickets for a musical festival o my birthday. Can I splurge pls?

What does your emergency fund look like? Could you make it 90 days without a paycheck? Could you pay for a major car repair today if you had to? If you can answer yes to these questions then you could probably afford to splurge some, but that being said I do not your financial situation to feel comfortable about green lighting any financial behavior.

I’m 22, live in manhattan, so no car. Biggest expense is rent. technically I do have 3 months of rent right now, plus I’ll be getting another paycheck next week. I have student loans which I’m managing without trouble.i also help my mom out with financial assistance when need be.

Also, don’t worry haha, I wouldn’t take your financial advice as the end all be all. I do need clothes though. And I don’t plan n splurging on myself until my birthday and I wouldn’t even consider $119 to be that bad in the scheme of things.

I am just about 10 years older than you. The best advice I can offer you is having cash on hand is the best security you can ask for. It bailed me out when I was laid off, helped me pay for a move for a new job, etc.

I had an economics professor tell me that your power to spend goes up exponentially when you save.

Cash is king!

What if you can't even save anything? Almost make it

Hard to say without looking looking at your finances. What are your major monthly expenses?

Happy birthday girl

Throw it at your loans. Pay down debt before you start saving with the exception of the emergency fund.

Got a 2 k tax return? Not sweet. You made a mistake: change your exemptions so you have as close to 0 a return as possible.

Different people have different priorities

WTf have priorities to do with anything? Tell me what priorities you have that require giving the us government an interest free loan.

It takes a few minutes to change your withholdings.

Not all people are identical. For some people it is beneficial to keep that money out of their hands for 12 months and get one injection of cash. Expecting all people to act like economist robots is why we have an endless cycle of panicing booms and busts. It's irrational. People are people. They have different priorities. Different needs. What's best for you or best in a textbook might not work best for them.

You may not know this, but there is a concept known as generational trauma. If your great grandparents had a severe enough experience your genes will reflect that change. The way you are raised, and the environment you grew into has a major impzct on your relationship with money.

We're on the verge of a post scarcity economy anyway

Not all people are identical.

No fucking kidding.

For some people it is beneficial to keep that money out of their hands for 12 months and get one injection of cash.

Are those people 4 year olds with poor impulse controls? If not, grow the fuck up and fix your withholdings and if you really can't control your spending, open a savings account for the extra money and freeze away the debit card from it.

Just stop making fucking excuses for a behaviour you should outgrow past your toddler years.

Expecting all people to act like economist robots is why we have an endless cycle of panicing booms and busts.

Nope. I don't expect people to act like robots. Just not like toddlers.

It's irrational.

The only irrational thing here is you arguing for enabling infantile behaviour.

People are people.

Yup. And people grow up. Unless of course you are talking about the mentally challenged, everyone else can go through the process of fixing their withholdings.

They have different priorities.

Sure. Different priorities though do not excuse laziness.

Different needs.

Neither do needs. And given that most people are not rich enough to not miss the 2k (and definitely not the original poster), they are stupid to not fix this.

What's best for you or best in a textbook might not work best for them.

And giving an interest free loan is good for them? And doing so while carrying interest accumulating loans such as student/car/home/credit card debts.

The one thing that is not good is making excuses for people having deplorably bad money habits.

You may not know this, but there is a concept known as generational trauma. If your great grandparents had a severe enough experience your genes will reflect that change. The way you are raised, and the environment you grew into has a major impzct on your relationship with money.

Oh geez. Yes that is true. But guess what, grow the fuck up and make the small steps to be financially responsible. We are not talking giant monumental shifts here.

We're on the verge of a post scarcity economy anyway

Tell that to the million poor people.

You're not very good at arguing your point without coming across as an idiot.

If you have nothing to say but attack me, then you are the unintelligent one.

Are those people 4 year olds with poor impulse controls?

Nope, they're people with different wants, needs, and experiences. Having extra cash in hand once a year may be the only thing keeping them sane through the long grind of shit. It might not make sense to you, and that's fine, but stop pretending that there's some immaturity or immorality in managing your own money in the way that best makes you happy. Because that's what actually matters in life.

> I don't expect people to act like robots. Just not like toddlers

it seems like the line between the two doesn't exist in your universe. It's not acting like a toddler to use your money in the way that serves you best. What that really means is in the way that makes you the happiest, not the way that makes you the most money.

> The only irrational thing here is you arguing for enabling infantile behaviour.

Expecting that all people live according to what an economics textbook says is best for them is utterly irrational. Human beings are emotional creatures, not robots. We have needs other than maximizing returns. Denying that makes you not only incorrect, but foolish.

> Different priorities though do not excuse laziness.

There is nothing lazy about wanting a larger tax rebate.

> they are stupid to not fix this.

I find it funny how certain you feel you are that you know what is best for all people in all situations. For people without much, a large injection of cash is often the main thing they look forward to all year. A few dollars a week just wouldn't have the same positive impact on their well being. Stop being intentionally ignorant to the reality of human beings emotional experiences, it makes you seem like you're posturing.

> And giving an interest free loan is good for them?

Getting a cash injection is good for them.

> making excuses for people having deplorably bad money habits.

Jesus christ you moralizing son of a bitch, there is nothing deplorable about someone wanting a cash injection every year. What the fuck.

> But guess what, grow the fuck up and make the small steps to be financially responsible. We are not talking giant monumental shifts here.

Stop moralizing financial decisions and let people do what is best for their mental health, not just their financial health.

> Tell that to the million poor people.

You've clearly misunderstood what that statement means.

Nope, they're people with different wants, needs, and experiences. Having extra cash in hand once a year may be the only thing keeping them sane through the long grind of shit. It might not make sense to you, and that's fine, but stop pretending that there's some immaturity or immorality in managing your own money in the way that best makes you happy. Because that's what actually matters in life.

Yup people are different. Some like you are too fucking stupid to realize that nothing prevents you from having your money in one lump sum. You are just too stupid to realize it. You are free to do what you want with your money, but some things are just stupid.

If you actually get your head out of your ass, you'd realize that you can end up with more money.

But then you have to get your head out of your ass and stop hiding behind your wishes for happiness because being lazy makes you happy. Eating gelato makes me happy, but it is not healthy it good for me to eat only that.

> I don't expect people to act like robots. Just not like toddlers

it seems like the line between the two doesn't exist in your universe. It's not acting like a toddler to use your money in the way that serves you best. What that really means is in the way that makes you the happiest, not the way that makes you the most money.

The way it serves you best? Ate you retarded? An interest free loan is not serving you in any way, shape or form unless you really have no impulse control. Otherwise as explained to you, open a savings account that is hard to access (a savings account in an online bank that you don't link to your checking would be a trivial example of that) and the aitodeduct the excess from your payroll there.

> The only irrational thing here is you arguing for enabling infantile behaviour.

Expecting that all people live according to what an economics textbook says is best for them is utterly irrational.

Noone is fucking arguing about an economic textbook.

Human beings are emotional creatures, not robots.

Human beings have capacity to make rational decisions. If you are letting your emotions drive you all the time then you are behaving like an infant/toddler. Grow the fuck up.

Weave needs other than maximizing returns. Denying that makes you not only incorrect, but foolish.

The only foolish person here is you: you are the one who is making excuses for acting like an infant/toddler.

> Different priorities though do not excuse laziness.

There is nothing lazy about wanting a larger tax rebate.

Yes there is. Your scenario: do shit nothing because you are too lazy to change your withholdings vs change your withholdings, open a separate savings account for the extra money and collect it on April 15 the or whatever plus interest the next year. Under the second scenario, for a few minutes of work you make more money. Under your scenario, you did not. Mine wins 100% of the time.

> they are stupid to not fix this.

I find it funny how certain you feel you are that you know what is best for all people in all situations.

It is funny how you think this is a matter of opinion. Guess what, you are entitled to your opinion yes but you are not entitled for your opinion to be right. In this case it is demonstrably clear that your approach is inferior unless you have 0 impulse control.

For people without much, a large injection of cash is often the main thing they look forward to all year. A few dollars a week just wouldn't have the same positive impact on their well being.

If you are that poor, you need the cash when you make it. If you don't need it then, you are not that poor so grow the fuck up.

Stop being intentionally ignorant to the reality of human beings emotional experiences, it makes you seem like you're posturing.

Stop infantalizing people and making excuses. In this case there is a wrong answer and it is yours.

> And giving an interest free loan is good for them?

Getting a cash injection is good for them.

Nope they are not getting a cash injection. You apparently are too stupid to understand that. A cash injection is money they wouldn't otherwise have.

And again even if I were to buy your flawed premise about a cash injection, if they change withholdings, put the money in a savings account and don't touch it till april15 the following year, that "cash injection" would be bigger.

So nope you are fucking wrong.

> making excuses for people having deplorably bad money habits.

Jesus christ you moralizing son of a bitch,

you retarded piece of shit...

there is nothing deplorable about someone wanting a cash injection every year. What the fuck.

It is not a cash injection. Again you are a fucking retarded. What did noone teach you to fucking use your brain? Did noone fucking love you that you are stuck at the impulse stage of human development? If not, grow the fuck up. If yes, grow the fuck up and seek help

Stop moralizing financial decisions and let people do what is best for their mental health, not just their financial health.

Stop infantalizing people and make excuses for stupid shit.

> Tell that to the million poor people.

You've clearly misunderstood what that statement means.

Lulz. Bullshit.

> you are too fucking stupid to realize that nothing prevents you from having your money in one lump sum

First of all, we aren't talking about me here. Second of all, you're the one that pretends to know more about every person in the world than themselves. Here's the thing, a poor person spends 100% of their income, they have to. The difference between having an extra few bucks a week and one large cash injection can be the difference between good and bad mental health. You're in no position to accurately judge which strategy is better for people, and your overly hostile, arrogant, self-congratulatory attitude proves it.

>An interest free loan is not serving you

Having a lump sum to look forward to gives people anticipation, and gives them a few days or weeks to feel like times are good. If you're spending all your income (poor people are) you're not going to have any more money if you perfect you withholding. You're going to have the same amount in a different configuration.

> open a savings account that is hard to access

Seriously? The average savings account is at 0.06% right now. Do you actually think that is going to be worth very much? Even if you got the lump sum at the start of the year, rather than in incremental amounts where you essentially aren't earning anything of substance for months on end, you're talking about one dollar and twenty cents on two grand. That's not enough to buy a goddamned bottle of soda and you're making the grandest moral proclamations, insulting the intelligence of large swaths of society, and acting like you're some genius over not even five quarters. Take a serious step backward. A serious, serious step backward. Evaluate yourself.

> If you are letting your emotions drive you all the time then you are behaving like an infant/toddler. Grow the fuck up.

Humans are emotional creatures. Emotion is a larger part of everything we do than robotic logic. It's illogical to pretend that people should disregard their emotion. I mean it's borderline certifiable to aggressively insult people for prioritizing their mental health over a fucking candy bar.

> Stop infantalizing people and making excuses. In this case there is a wrong answer and it is yours.

The right answer is what makes people happiest. Demonstrative again that emotion matters more than just logic. If you had any person choose between being happy right now or being unhappy and having a billion dollars the majority of people will choose being happy. Because it matters more. The only value money has is it's ability to enrich our lives. It has no other value.

> Nope they are not getting a cash injection. You apparently are too stupid to understand that. A cash injection is money they wouldn't otherwise have.

Arguing with you aggressive kids is always fun. A cash injection is not money you 'wouldn't otherwise have.' That definition makes absolutely no sense. If a company makes a bad investment then gets a cash injection to make them whole that isn't suddenly not a cash injection because they could have had that money anyway. It just means a sum of money received at one time. It doesn't have to come from anywhere or have any qualifiers. Stop trying so hard to make an illogical argument.

> Stop infantalizing people and make excuses for stupid shit.

Yep, saying 'people know what is best for them, you don't' is infantlizing. Yep.

> Lulz. Bullshit.

A post scarcity economy means the global economy doesn't function on the basis of scarcity. Labour is automated, energy is harvested from natural forces, and there isn't any reason to force people to compete over resources. However, because of fucked up capitalist assholes, they will use a post scarcity economy to enrich their own lives while forcing the rest of us to live in poverty, even though we don't have to. Unless we fundamentally transform our society.

> you are too fucking stupid to realize that nothing prevents you from having your money in one lump sum

First of all, we aren't talking about me here.

Yes we are. You are the stupid one who repeatedly fails to understand that you can get a lump sump on April 15 that is actually larger with a few minutes of work.

Second of all, you're the one that pretends to know more about every person in the world than themselves.

Not more than you do. I am resorting to math and statistics. You to what? Some belief of what poor people need or your personal experience or... ?

Here's the thing, a poor person spends 100% of their income, they have to. The difference between having an extra few bucks a week and one large cash injection can be the difference between good and bad mental health.

The first part is true, the second part is you being retarded. A poor person spends 100% of their income and either can't afford to pay all their bills, or to eat enough healthy foods or go to the doctor or even if they could do all this, suffer prolonged stress about it. Having a few extra bucks does fix a lot of that, including alleviating some of the stress.

Furthermore, it is these poor people who cannot afford the luxury of acting on their impulses like you suggest.

You're in no position to accurately judge which strategy is better for people, and your overly hostile, arrogant, self-congratulatory attitude proves it.

Lol and you retarded excusist know it all attitude is better? Lulz. You are not only retarded but by spewing that bullshit you are actually harming people. Show them the best part for them. Don't obfuscate it in your mumbo jumbo beliefs.

>An interest free loan is not serving you

Having a lump sum to look forward to gives people anticipation,

Fucking grow up. If you are poor, you csnnot afgird to do this.

and gives them a few days or weeks to feel like times are good.

Fell good baby actually being good. Guess what asshole, they are not doing well if they are following your plan If you disagree, next time when you have a year attack, feel free to make yourself feel good by smoking pot/getting drunk/eating chocolate/whatever makes you feel good instead of getting medical attention and see how that works out.

This is the advice/excuses you are recklessly giving.

If you're spending all your income (poor people are) you're not going to have any more money if you perfect you withholding. You're going to have the same amount in a different configuration.

If you are poor enough but can afford to give the government a 2k per year interest free loan, then you can afford to not give the government that loan and take about 1.5% more. If on the other hand, you are so poor that you incurr one late fee, then you have actually paid out of pocket to give the government a free loan.

Your argument still doesn't work. Try again.

> open a savings account that is hard to access

Seriously? The average savings account is at 0.06% right now.

Only lazy fucktards like you go for the average bank. Don't go for the average bank. Go for Ally or Discover that give 1.5% (not to mention a few who do better but those are a bit more work than Ally is). The average is only so low because idiots like you are too fucking lazy to go elsewhere.

Do you actually think that is going to be worth very much? Even if you got the lump sum at the start of the year, rather than in incremental amounts where you essentially aren't earning anything of substance for months on end, you're talking about one dollar and twenty cents on two grand.

Only if you are a lazy asshole like you. Otherwise you are looking at about 30 bucks which, for those who are truly poor, is a whole lot of food.

That's not enough to buy a goddamned bottle of soda and you're making the grandest moral proclamations, insulting the intelligence of large swaths of society, and acting like you're some genius over not even five quarters.

Yup if you retardedly don't go for the highest convenient bank (note that there are banks that offer higher rates but they come with some inconveniences), you can barely get a soda. On the other hand, if you are not a lazy fucktard looking for an excuse, it will be 30 bucks which btw if you are truly poor is at least a week worth of food.

Nope. I am insulting you. You are the one who is giving shitty advice.

Take a serious step backward. A serious, serious step backward. Evaluate yourself.

Take your head out of your ass. Then, take a really good look at yourself in the mirror. You are covered in shit and your arguments are shit.

> If you are letting your emotions drive you all the time then you are behaving like an infant/toddler. Grow the fuck up.

Humans are emotional creatures. Emotion is a larger part of everything we do than robotic logic.

Grow the fuck up Use your fucking brain. Don't be governed by emotions like a toddler.

It'sogical to pretend that people should disregard their emotion. I mean it's borderline certifiable to aggressively insult people for prioritizing their mental health over a fucking candy bar.

It is bored line criminal to spew bad advice like you are. Again, did you not get loved enough that you are stuck at Maslow's emotional stage of development? Seek professional help dude.

The right answer is what makes people happiest.

So again, if you get a heart attack you are going to go smoke a joint/eat ice cream/ do whatever makes you happy as long as it is not getting medical care?

Yeah right. You'd be getting medical care because being happy in the moment is not the most important thing to you.

Demonstrative again that emotion matters more than just logic.

Only if you are a baby/toddler. Again grow the fuck up or stop lying.

If you had any person choose between being happy right now or being unhappy and having a billion dollars the majority of people will choose being happy.

Lulz. Try it. See how many will trade 1 day or 1 week of unhappiness for a billion dollars. If you truly believe the bulshit you are spewing, you are in for the shock of your life.

Because it matters more.

Nope it doesn't . Go ahead and post this in Reddit. You are in for a surprise.

The only value money has is it's ability to enrich our lives. It has no other value.

Lulz. You are delusional. The first value money has is keeping people fed, with a roof over their head, and clothed.

> Nope they are not getting a cash injection. You apparently are too stupid to understand that. A cash injection is money they wouldn't otherwise have.

Arguing with you aggressive kids is always fun. A cash injection is not money you 'wouldn't otherwise have.' That definition makes absolutely no sense. If a company makes a bad investment then gets a cash injection to make them whole that isn't suddenly not a cash injection because they could have had that money anyway.

Lulz. The company wouldn't be looking for a cash injection if it got cash in hand. You are retarded.

It just means a sum of money received at one time. It doesn't have to come from anywhere or have any qualifiers. Stop trying so hard to make an illogical argument.

Lol you have gone full circle in your stupidity. Am I making a too logical argument or an illogical one? You can't even tell-- you are that stupud./unwilling to get your head out if your ass.

And btw, this would be like a company selling a product but not charging people for a year then all of a suddenbrunning out if money and collecting what they are owed and patting themselves on the back. That us the proper analogy and there is a reason noone dies that in the business world. It is monumentally retarded.

> Stop infantalizing people and make excuses for stupid shit.

Yep, saying 'people know what is best for them, you don't' is infantlizing. Yep.

Only one if these is based on logic, math and facts.

> Lulz. Bullshit.

A post scarcity economy means the global economy doesn't function on the basis of scarcity. Labour is automated, energy is harvested from natural forces, and there isn't any reason to force people to compete over resources.

Yup tell this to poor people. They so are not fighting for food, shelter and clothes. Fuck off you are truly too dumb.

Now you're just at the point of derranged and angry rambling. You're not making any arguments, just trying to insult me. I'm taking this as a win, and walking away.

Nope. You just have nothing intelligent to say.

Sounds like a nonsensical retort from someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about lol

Nope. Sorry you are too dumb to understand that it takes a few minutes to change your withholdings so you loan less money interest free.

But hey maybe your priorities are to be a lazy dumbass. In which case, sure keep getting this huge refund instead of taking the few minutes it takes to fix your dumbness.

Lol I was talking about the guy above you asshole, I agree with you

Lol I was talking about the guy above you asshole, I agree with you

If you meant to respond to the guy above me, then you should have responded to him or used his name. The only asshole here us you-- you fucked up in your response.

You sure are an angry little cunt, I was clearly talking to you about the guy above you - I know it’s complex but try taking a second to think next time so you don’t come off like a complete dick head. Although after looking at your other posts in this thread it appears that’s what you’re going for, mission accomplished 👏🏻

You sure are an angry little cunt,

Just because you look in the mirror and see an angry little cunt, doesn't make me one. Now go fuck off.

I’d rather have an extra $83 in every paycheck than a $2,000 tax return. Stop over-deducting your paycheck, people!

Some people like it the other way.there isn't one right answer.

It takes some pretty special circumstances to make a free loan to the IRS a sound financial decision on your part. You don’t even make interest off them holding your money all year.

Pretty special circumstances or just not being perfect with money. People who have very little have a lot of trouble saving because when the choice is save $20 or buy $20 in 'luxuries' to keep your life enriched enough to survive to the next paycheck it isn't a hard choice. Expecting people to live like machines is irrational.

If that's the case though what's likely to happen when that big refund cheque comes?

They'll replace worn out items and pay down debts. It will provide temporary relief from the stress of life that an extra few bucks wouldn't. Humans are emotional creatures, ignoring that just won't work.

You're not suppose to ignore it. You're suppose to spend a second and realise there's no good reason to have more money than necessary taken off.

I have explained this multiple times to multiple people here. There is a good reason. That person's emotional/mental well being. That matters far more than the likely 0 in interest you would have earned throughout the year had you perfected your withholding. Because most people spend all they make (or more than that) out of necessity. And the people most likely to want a single large cash injection are the people most in need. I.e. the people who were always going to spend all their money, but getting a larger piece of it all at once just makes them happier.

And that's the only thing that really matters.

Well, it's not the only thing that really matters. Understanding what you're doing is the only thing that really matters. Most people actively trying to do it don't seem to.

If you're broke, you can make do with a large return a lot more than you can a slightly larger paycheck.

Assuming you put it in a savings account you're missing out on like $10 in interest in a year for a $2000 refund. That's not really a factor. Stop acting like it's a huge deal to get a refund.

That’s exactly what I did. This past filing, I think I actually owed the IRS and ironic $10.40...I took the money that normally would’ve been withheld and started dumping it into one of those Acorns accounts...so far, it’s up ~4% for the past 52 weeks.

10% of your tax return for savings? Are you fucking crazy? Why not encourage more responsible saving methods like saving 10% or even 5% of your weekly/fortnightly income and then saving MAYBE 50% of the tax return?

As a low income mid-20’s guy, I can imagine nothing worse than locking away my only ‘big’ surge of disposable money of the year to savings. I believe many people in my demographic think like I do in this regard too.

He said spend 5% and save the rest

Yes, I can read thank you. And I said that spending only 5% of your yearly tax return is absurd to a 20-something year old. Most likely you'll be getting a 5k+ tax return if you have a decent salary and to only be spending $250 of that and to save the remainder seems wrong advice to be giving. It's just simply unrealistic. Not a single soul on the planet will be doing that, and where my issue stands is that the user is saying spend "responsibly". Like 5% of a tax return is responsible. I'd consider 25% responsible! maybe more!

I mean, that's on you. Most of the people I know (I'm a millenial) take their tax returns and save/invest it, seeing as they all have automated budgets and already have their fun money for the week. I am in finance though so YMMV.

But it's not "responsible" to spend more. More fun? Fuck yeah but not more responsible.

Re read your comment, that isn't what you said

Who tf is getting a 2k tax return jesus

We do a little of the opposite for our family just because smoking was a bad habit for us. We would get gradually accrue credit card debt throughout the year (never more than $2600) on emergencies and then pay everything off with the tax return. Its a dumber way to go about it, but last year we finally started catching up with our finances, and are poised to maybe have our credit cards paid off before Feb next year so we can keep all of our money.

That said our tax return was pretty piss poor due to tax bracket changes, property tax increases, and liquidating my 401k from my old job. YES I KNOW IT IS DUMB but I needed a bigger buffer to cover me until my new job started paying me every other week instead of weekly. New job comes with a pretty awesome pension anyways so I am going to start squirreling away money to a new 401k in the next year or 2.

We aren't money wizards (hell we aren't particularly that good) but we are getting to a pretty stable place.

[deleted]

The tax law changes didn't apply to your 2017 return.

[deleted]

So weird. In the UK they do our taxes for us.

That was going to happen in the US, then tax preparers and tax software companies lobbied to keep things complicated so they can keep being ditch diggers creating and filling in unnecessary holes

Same as Australia. Its mostly PAYG tax ( Pay As You Go - where they take money out automatically depending on how much you've earned that pay cycle ) so you don't have to think about it.

They do that in the US but they don't know if you qualify for any tax breaks or if you have unreported side income, so you have to fill out your tax return so they can account for those things

Here you tell them to withhold a certain amount and at the end of the year you do your taxes and find out whether they withheld too much or too little. Then you pay the government or get a refund.

Yeah I have a 401k, life insurance and started to get in on the ETF/Stock game people my age sometimes look at me like I'm crazy.

At my 10 year class reunion we were all looking at our 401Ks, everyone had an average of around 5-7 grand after having worked a few years.

One of our friends started working a year or so later than us and we knew he worked a lot, like 70-80 hours a week. However he lived at home and put a TON of money into retirement. In 3 years he had $60K saved up. Said he was going to retire in 10 years and then find a job doing something he truly loved even if it didn’t pay much.

Smart guy, he is.

I'm guessing he works as a contractor or something, since he wouldn't be able to take out his retirement until he is much older without a significant penalty, if we're still talking 401k. Else he probably has a regular IRA or something.

SEPP allows you to retire whenever you have the money, and avoid the 10% penalty for early withdrawal.

This is simply untrue. You can roll the 401k into an IRA after quitting and then take 72(t) distributions even if you are not 59.5 years old.

Nope he’s not a contractor. Just because he retires though doesn’t mean he will start drawing right away. He just got in on a vehicle plant right when they opened, he’s a mechanic and with his overtime started out making 6 figures. The money he kept he’s invested in land and bought a house and new truck, paid cash for both.

He’s just getting everything out of the way early while he’s got the opportunity. Once you’re vested that retirement will transfer wherever you go. So even if he’s got $600K by the time he decides to quit said job he could be a high school shop teacher. He takes a significant pay cut, but has a very stress free job and doesn’t have to worry about future retirement plans.

That's exactly what I'm doing. I've spent the last 9 years managing a commercial poultry farm. I fell in this line of work at 19. I make good enough money to live on now but I've gained a ton of experience and met all the right people to buy my own farm. Within the next 18 months ill be able to take out a 2ish million dollar loan. Be in debt for 15 to 20 years and if it all works out ill come out on the other side early 50s sitting pretty. I'm basically buying my way in a fairly stable business based on a decade of experience and knowing the right people. I've spent my 20s working 7 days a week for years but its finally going to pay off.

That makes me feel a lot better about getting started young, sometimes I feel like a square. I hang out a bunch of creative types so it can be a mixed bag haha

It’s better to start saving and whatnot young. Nothin wrong with having a good time but I see a lot of people my age just now getting started.

Yeah I'm suffering for it now, but it'll be worth it to be less stressed in my 50s.

I'm 28, got a bit over 40k rn. Will be done with all student debt and my auto loan by next summer (aka debt free) Credit score was 770s last month when I checked. 5k in a regular savings account.12k in credit card limits available. No balances.

You’re definitely in the outlier here.

I usually find people are intrigued when I mention it which gives me a good feeling inside

Some people are intrigued and I always tell people where I go and how to get started they usually are into it but I think for some people they don't want to think about stuff like that it seems overwhelming so they dont really engage with it. Which I understand, I know a lot of actors without full time jobs so maybe it's like just a notion to them idk.

The crazy part is how much more valuable it is when you're young rather than twenty years later when everyone else starts to think about it.

And not building credit. Get a credit card and use it monthly, then pay it off monthly.

I use it for everything and just don't miss a payment

Spot on. There was some crazy statistic about a decade ago that the average American saves minus .4% of their income...let that sink in...minus .4%...they’re spending more than they earn! It’s mind boggling.

Given that was a decade ago, sadly I'd bet that the statistic is even higher.

I heard recently that over 60% of people couldn't afford a $1000 emergency - they'd have to get a loan, put it on credit, or borrow from family. It blows my mind to think how stressful it must be to live so close to the edge of your means that you couldn't afford a $1000 emergency.

To be fair, some people just genuinely don’t make enough to afford an emergency like that. I haven’t been able to for most of my life until now. I try to save as much as possible but any emergency over $1000 would still be a significant hit for me.

Yes. Stop the "YOLO!" and "I could die tomorrow!!!" bullshit. Chances are HIGHLY in your favor that you're going to survive several more years. Doing this with money is a hella great way to actually have some "YOLO" moments later on in life.

Yep. I was able to pay for my husband to take a sweet ass trip for his birthday last year because I stopped being an idiot with my money for a few years. Automatically set up for as much money as I could spare to come out of every paycheck into a separate account.

Lol the treat yo self thing is dangerous. Especially the “I deserve it” attitude

It is. I bought a lot of shit in my 20s I didn’t need, and got rid of most of it over time. So wasteful.

Especially with social media these days some people feel like they have to flex on instagram. I see people suddenly wearing new yeezys/Ralph Lauren polos/Gucci belt in a nice hotel in Vegas lol

Imagine having enough leftover after student loans to save for retirement. Lol

Retirement advice: pay at least what your employer will match in your 401k. Don’t give away money.

It's nigh impossible to do that when you're trying to pay off debts that you couldn't avoid in the first place

Yeah I mean shit happens, but I’d wager to say more than half of people in their 20s are just plain irresponsible. I was one.

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Started my ROTH at the ripe age of 19.

You should be saving at least 25% of what you make. Almost no one does this.

I wish I had started 10 years ago. Ahh, a decade of regret lol. At least it won’t be a lifetime.

The best time to start was 10 years ago. The second best time is right now.

The second best time was 9 years 366 days ago. But the 3652nd best time is right now!

Some people just cannot do this. Working IT, I can't get a job out in the sticks where it's cheaper to live. So, my options are commuting 70-100mi each way and earning a good living while keeping my cost of living down, or getting a shit job in a small town. OR getting a decent job and paying for that cost of living.

I could also telecommute but still not make anywhere near what I'd make commuting. I'm so tired of living in the city, I much prefer living in the country but it's not fiscally viable.

If you can make less while spending way less, isn't that better overall? Just an idea, Im not giving advice.

Yes, but that also isn't advancing my career, so it's more of a net loss. My current job just invested in Pluralsight also, so I get free web training which also helps in the long run.

I guess you pay the extra to advance your career in that case. I think saving is pretty important myself, and I value it over most things but that's just me being fiscally conservative.

Unfortunately I can’t save 1/4 of my earnings. I wish I could. I know lots of people who simply can’t due to various other circumstances. Not just because they spend recklessly or anything. Right now, I put 10% in my 401k and save about an extra $300-$500 a month of my residual income. Best I can do for now. I do have a pension as well, which is nice.

Saving is great advice, the earlier the better. The power of compound interest really is real folks.

And thinking your family can/will back you up when you can't afford payments.

I'm 32 and didn't start saving until last year. I fucked up. I have my 401K contribution maxed out now, though, and my company matches at a nice rate. Won't make up for that lost time but doing what I can to make up for it.

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who hasn't started a 401K at age 32. Doing it next year.

Start as soon as you can. It's really worth it.

Saving big chunks like tax returns instead of “treating yo’ self” is hella smart.

In this vein: You want your tax return to ideally be 0$. It's not free money from the government. It's your change after paying taxes.

Properly adjust your withholdings so you have as little tax return as possible or even owe slightly. Make your money work for you and not be an interest free loan to the government.

I do this and typically owe about $100 every year. Maybe $150 with state taxes. That’s not much considering how much more I took home after updating my tax info. I didn’t even think it would be as much as it is, but I’m taking home probably $175-$200 more a week this way. Sometimes more if I work a lot of overtime.

It's not even 'free' money either. It's YOUR money, returned to you by the government after they borrowed it for a year at 0%.

yeah they're making out like a bandit too, i bet the interest on that 300 bucks or whatever would be at least a few pennies!

I'm not sure you realize how stupid your statement is.

This absolutely saved me in my early 20s. I had landed a damn good job doing marketing and promotions for a large alcohol company, and started being able to safe money for the first time since before university.

At 24 I developed a seizure disorder that lost me my license, and my job. I was able to use my "emergency fund" on rent and groceries until I got 2 roommates, and my social assistance application went through. I was the only 24 year old I knew with an emergency fund, and it saved me from having to move back in with my parents in the suburbs, after losing so much of my independence.

As a sidenote; the reason I had an emergency fund in the first place, was in case anything happened to my cats. Human healthcare is thankfully free in Canada, but pet healthcare costs a LOT; especially in a big city.

My husband was able to start saving in his 401K about 7 years before me, and has maxed out his retirement accounts every year since his early 20s. Even if he were to stop contributing this year, and I worked another 25 years maxing all of my retirement accounts, he will always have more in his retirement accounts because of the magic of compound interest.

Must have had an incredibly good job and no debt to contribute 18,000 per year in his early 20s.

God I wish I got tax returns

I haven’t gotten one in years but I got a few when I was in college and had a kid, and blew them like an idiot.

Even just a little bit is better than nothing.

Tell that to my student loan debt.

I'm 27, thus far I've solved this problem by never making enough money to save any in the first place!

Can't spend irresponsibly and avoid saving money if you don't have any money BlackManTappingHead.jpg

I spent the first half of my 20's accumulating debt, and the second half paying it off. No savings, but not having debt is my number #1 goal for now. Hoping to get things squared away in my 30's (lol).

Tax...return?

Even just a little bit is better than nothing.

Divorce attorney here, this really isn't true. People who are 60 and have $30,000 saved in retirement, functionally they have nothing.

Lmao oh okay.... I’d rather have 30K than nothing though.

You've never had close to nothing then. I've seen many, many people with not so much as a pot to piss in not care about getting or not getting 20 or 30k. It's not enough to change your life-you're going to spend it, then it'll be gone, then you'll be right where you are.

Yes. The "little bit" philosophy makes it sound easy to get started, but that's not enough. Good, get started. But what most of the population needs is a swift kick in the pants to "save 'till it hurts".

Or better yet unionize, advocate for worker control . Democratize your workplace. Make sure people are actually paid enough to live on. Make public pensions enough to live on. Stop letting the rich Rob the poor. Stop expecting people who are routinely shafted from every direction to willingly take it in the ass and live a miserable life so that when they're 90 and forced to retire they don't have to eat cat food.

Also having a “fuck off fund” can save you from a really terrible situation. Wouldn’t have survived without mine. Like really.

noted.

I need help though.. I try to save money but if I see know I have it , I'm going to spend it. How do I stop this?

Build a budget. Base it off the minimum you know you'll make per month, work out how much you spend on 1, things that don't change (rent, phone, internet, etc) 2, things that must be paid in full but vary somewhat (utilities, gas, etc) and 3, things that can be adjusted based on how much money you have available (food, restaurants, spending, etc). Throw it all into a spreadsheet, stick some math in there, and never look at your bank account. Those numbers mean nothing anymore. Your new numbers are in your spreadsheet. If, at the end of the month, you are under budget, then you can indulge a bit. But only as much as is allotted in your budget. Doesn't matter what's in the bank. That's not your money. That money is for fixing shit that breaks in your life. Appliances, vehicle, phone, computer, furniture, you never know what's gonna break next. That's what your account is for. It's not for spending. The only number that's for spending is the one in your budget.

Yep. Doing this now. Almost at one year of "oh shit I have no more money coming in" now.

Yeah, it always drove me up the wall when I wouldn't spend money and people said "aw c'mon, live a little!"

I am fifty years old and still buy crap, then resell it when I need money, serving as my own personal pawn shop.

tl;dr You can take the boy out of the trailer park, but you can't take the trailer park out of the boy.

And if you can't save, aggressively pay down debts.

I put every income tax check into my loans every year, working out great

It could be argued that the emergency fund isn't really necessary once you've got some savings.

Good thing my tax refund is just bonus tax so I never have to worry about wasting my refund

Can you give a ballpark number for a good emergency fund?

I’m no expert by any means but a first goal would be $500. Then 2K, then 5K. It takes time.

Am 21. Me and my wife spent a lot of our savings on our taxes this year. We owed 6,000 between the two of us. It’s important to have savings and this is just one of the times I’ve thanked myself for not “treating myself” constantly.

If you owed 6k between the two of you at the end of the year you're probably pretty damn well off and your basic standard of living is better than the average person treating themselves daily.

We work hard especially for young people.

Working hard has nothing to do with how much money you make. I said you must make a lot of money. Which I assume you do.

We aren’t particularly well off but we do okay for us both being in our very early 20s We struggle as much as the next guy

Do you own your own business? I ask this because I make a good income and you had to pay about 60% of my entire tax burden at the end of the year. If you're employed by someone and you were that far off something with large figures happen

No both me and my wife work at an insurance company

Im still working a low paying job, but xmas/birthday/tax money all goes into savings.

Also i total my monthly payments, divide it into 4 and have my bank desposit that amount into my "reserve" every saturday. (i like to overshoot to buffer for gas/electric)

Now it'll seem like i have very little money for the week, but whatever i dont spend is pure savings. Also the stress of seeing my spend account be low is incentive to be pretty frugal through the week

Im 24 but have stablized enough that i can go back to school, finish my degree and be able to do this on a larger scale

How else would I have bought my PS4 though?

Cant put my tax returns into saving when I'm in debt lololol

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The median individual income in the us is 30,550.

If they worked 32 years without spending a dime or ever paying taxes, then yeah they could technically have a million dollars.

The cold hard FACT is that most people cannot be well off. That's how our economy is set up. The majority of people will never have enough to live comfortably so that the few at the top can live a thousand lives on their hoarded, stolen wealth. I'm

People live in a city because that's where jobs are. Jobs in small towns pay considerably less. If they even exist at all. Don't act like you can just choose where to work once you get a job at a certain salary.

I’m 17 and determined to save $120 a month as long as I work. Better start early amirite.

Edit. Words and such.

What is this "saving" you talk about? Is that a new term? Where do I buy one for cheap?

Also naming your emergency fund something like "Fuck Off Fund". That way you can just quit one day and have a nice rainy day fund. 6 months salary at your normal life style and you can live a long time on that fund alone.

My parents have literally nothing for retirement. Ruined my future by ruining theirs. And sadly they did do the best they could do. Life just fucked them hard.

Also, once you're in your 20's, stop saying "hella"

When I started my current job, I told myself I would put money into a 401k. I can only do 2% at the moment. I tell myself, it's better there, then in my belly and wasted. $15 bucks adds up over the course of the year. If you can live without your coffee every morning, and make it at home, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Once I finish paying out my student loans one day, I can start saving for retirement. Or maybe I should put at least 30 dollars a check for retirement when I get a job.

Treating yourself should be done one special occasions, not daily or even weekly

I need to get better with this. In my 6 weeks of work, I've spent about 70% and haven't yet started saving as planned. It's rough seeing the money I have and wanting to spend a small amount here and there but knowing that if you did that you'd be in the gutter

Well, that's nice and all, but what about those of us who literally can't save?

It’s pretty terrifying the amount of people I work with (anywhere from mid 20’s - late 40’s) that have absolutely no retirement money.

Everyone wants the bougie lifestyle yet only a handful can really afford it

Don't act bougie if you're not in the bourgeoisie

Born bougie*

Hey now. Us proletariats already overthrew them. Where were you at man? /s

And other jokes we tell ourselves

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rent $800 in Cupertino, a 2 bed apartment runs about $5,090 a month........i know you were joking, i just wanted to complain

Holy fuck where you live is expensive. My rent is 540

all i can think of is rich ladies at yankee candle now

Bougie ~~isn't~~ is a french word, but it is not what OP was saying. It is a shortened version of bourgeois which is a french word. Bougie is very much a part of English speaking pop culture

bougie

Oh, I didn't even read your translation lol. I thought you were just clarifying OPs term of Bougie!

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I love how there are words in different language spelled the same but meaning different things. Four is an oven (French) or the number between three and five (English). Hier is either here (German) or yesterday (French).

If you’re using Duolingo to learn a language, there are sometimes “match the word in your language with the word in the other language” ...and four of the tiles could say quatre, four, four, oven ...but it only SAYS the French word out loud. So you have to press one of the “four” tiles and go by sound. Didn’t say anything? That’s the English one, press “quatre” to make the match.

And 'garage' means 'place to put your car' in French and some English speaking countries, but in England itself the word is almost exclusively used to describe the musical style of So Solid Crew.

In french we would say 'bourge'.

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It's slang for bourgeoisie which has taken on connotations of material decadence.

LOL Just in case... "bougie" is short for "bourgeois" which is akin to upper middle class attached to having nice things/having money.

For those who actually don't speak french, this is not what bougie actually means in this context.

but google transalte said so

"Bougie" is actually an English word (from black American culture), which means middle-class, which derives from another English word, "bourgeois", which is borrowed from French. The French word ultimately derives from the same words that the English word "borough", meaning town, derives from.

Nice, do you also want to explain why the original comment is funny?

I don't think it was supposed to be funny in particular, just insightful.

Could it mean what you're saying and mean what others are saying?

If you're asking if maybe they also meant "candle", the answer is no. Otherwise I'm not sure what you're asking.

For those that don't speak French but can spell.. bourgeois

Wtf is a “candle lifestyle”!? That’s more French than Bougie

lol.

I cringe everytime someone says "boojey". Folks, the word is spelled "Bourgeoisie", it's french, and it's pronounced "booj-wah-zee". If the french is too hard, try the formal english title "Our Soul-less, Moral-Less, Capital-Hording Corporate Masters", or the shortened form "Capitalists".

I always though people said boojey as a slang for bourgeoisie, not as a mispronunciation.

Bourgeoisie can apply to varying levels of financial disposition depending on context. Also it's not pronounced "boojwa", you'd be missing the R.

Bougie ain't French.

As I like to say a “thousand dollar millionaire”

Someone here calls them $30k millionaire living the life like millionaires while they only make $30k...

As I like to say a “ less than a thousand dollar millionaire”

Yuppp. That's what I see college-aged kids spending their student loans or parents' savings on. The reality is that they are gonna have a rude awakening around the age of 24.

Literally every college kid says they love to travel. Ya they’ll be in for a rude awakening one day

to add on to this it's really cringe worthy when you are in a full designer outfit, maybe a gold necklace, earrings, etc

and then you drive a camry, live in an apartment, 1200 sq ft. house, work in retail or some random ass common job, there is just something about inconsistency which is laughable

A surface level lifestyle with no deep reality is really not worth it, it makes yourself look bad

I'm kinda not opposed to this as long as it's done responsibly. Obviously buying on credit and leveraging yourself up to your neck just for appearances is bad, but let me put it this way: I own a computer that probably cost me about $3,000 all told. I built it because that's something that's important to me and brings me joy. In terms of cost though, that's like two or three pairs of Manolo Blahnik shoes. Obviously every outfit you wear shouldn't be an extravagant designer affair, but high end designer stuff isn't totally out of reach (in small quantities) either. When I finally contextualized it against the cost of my own hobbies and the things that bring me joy I can't fault anyone if they scrimp and save to buy a designer bag the way I did for my computer.

You can’t put a price on how something makes you feel. Saving up for important things to you is one of the joys in life you can’t take away. Adults don’t always have to make the most practical and productive purchases.

Well buying things you can't afford is always irresponsible.

Saving and buying something expensive that you really want is the opposite.

Keeping up with the jones responsibly

Not keeping up with the Joneses, letting yourself own things you care about because they make you happy. /u/Jacob_exe's example of someone who lives in a small apartment and drives a modest car doesn't sound to me like someone who's driven by appearances and keeping up with the Joneses. They sound to me like someone who has an expensive 'hobby' (for lack of a better word) and who's made spending decisions to accomodate that.

If they're drowning in debt or aren't making wise financial decisions with regards to the larger picture of their life that's another story, but nothing in the example inherently says that.

When I lived in Dallas we called these people $30K Millionaires, aka people who tried to have the appearance they made millions but in reality only pulled down like $30,000. One guy in particular I knew drew an Audi A7 but had almost no furniture in his apartment lol

It's whatever brings you joy. I'd be that person driving a nice car or ludicrously expensive bike and having a barely furnished apartment. I enjoy cars and fixies, having those is more important than a nice apartment especially if few people are gonna see my apartment often enough to matter.

That's very very fair, and I totally understand having those priorities. I kinda feel the same way myself. In those cases they wouldn't be called a $30K Millionaire. That term is reserved for people who try to give off the impression they make millions and are putting on a front rather than they just prefer nice cars over a nice apartment. Bit of a difference IMO. The guy I knew whose apartment wasn't furnished was always trying to impress people with money even though he didn't have any, so it just didn't seem genuine if that makes sense.

“Work in retail” “1200 sq ft” fuck dude, if only. Grew up in a 3000+ sq ft house but even 1200 seems gigantic to me now

Your parents (likely) started out small as well. One of the big mistakes young adults make when they go off on their own is to try to emulate their parent's quality of living. Your parents worked years to get where there at, you can't expect to be there out the gate.

Eh, its priorities. Unless someone is staving their kid, I don't feel like I can judge them. I dress from goodwill and I am basically homeless, but I dive a nice sports car and I am traveling at least 80% of the time. I understand my priorities probably looks stupid to someone else, but I also don't particularly care what someone else would think of it anyways.

Eh, doesn't really seem like they're hurting anyone. I see what you're saying some people like the flashy looks and flashy jewelery doesn't make you look flashy. Who are we to say where people should and shouldn't spend their own money though?

I mean if it makes you feel better than more power to you, but it's misleading is all. Most things that make you look like a fool aren't hurtful to anyone, it's all just about how much you care I guess

I mean it's not my thing either, but I don't cringe at people who like fahion and jewelery just because they can't also afford big homes and nice cars. But I guess you're right, some people care about looking flashy, some people care about other people caring about looking flashy, and other people (apparently me) care about other people caring about other people caring about looking flashy haha.

I think it's really more just the stereotype that fashion gives off, fashion I feel has always shown wealth, so getting into fashion that intensely I feel like is trying to lie about your wealth. Don't get me wrong I like my polo and lucky jeans time to time but what I am talking about is more extremes like Supreme, Gucci, Fendi, rollex etc. idk we just don't agree maybe different upbringings on how clothing and fashion is viewed

That's fair, fashion is weird like that. I think the main point I was trying to make was that the original comment was recommending against living a life you can't afford. It seemed to me like you were comdening people living a life they can afford but they choose to spend they're money in odd ways. I just thought they're two separate issues, I personally condemn the former but not the later.

Not at all condemning, just my personal opinion, I can see where you're coming from though

Fair enough, to each their own. Thanks for the respectful chat :)

Why is this cringy? What if the person just values clothes more than what they drive or where they live?

What if the person just values clothes more than what they drive or where they live

there ya go

This is why you don’t tell anyone where you live and always get fancy cars to pick you up and stand outside some random rich persons house for a while

Man, I wish I had a Camry. Oh well, the current beater is nearly invincible.

I see your point, but don't hate too much on apartment size. I pay almost $1000 a month for a place less than 1000 square feet since I want to live in a nob shitty place in an expensive area..

“Champagne taste with a beer budget”

Hustle hard young WTFlife_sigh, hustle hard.

Working on it man. Taking advice from queen bey

https://youtu.be/xUYh9z2efHY

I just learned the word bougie and im lovin it

This is so true. But it's hard NOT to want that lifestyle when it's flaunted at us from every platform available.... TV, music, books, magazines, social media, radio... literally almost ever form of media propels the idea that being rich and famous is the fucking cool thing to do. And thus, from a young age, we learn to crave that shit. So much so that even though we won't obtain it, we sure as hell will live in a way that makes us feel like we will.

Ya we do learn to crave it but there should be a level of self control and personal responsibility/awareness that many people seem to lack

Or alternatively, find a different definition of bougie. I like shoes. I like em a lot. However, I can never justify spending more than $100 on a pair, and even that's a lot of money (it adds up). So I thrift shop a lot and find stuff I like there, or I buy fakes of the more expensive ones. They're effectively the same, at a fraction of the price. My definition of fancy shit includes that stuff.

Yeah it's almost like the bourgeoisie specifically set up an economy where their lifestyle is the aspiration every person is measured against while making it impossible for anyone to achieve that lifestyle without being chosen/inheriting vast sums of money. Because that keeps people in line, working harder than they should for far less than they should. Socking away the scraps they can muster so they don't have to be eating catfood as an octogenarian. Because it makes wealth and working hard for the betterment of some lazy slob amassing hoards of cash a virtue. When really we should just bring back the guillotine

In the US, we call that the American dream

I lived responsibly throughout my 20s while my high school buddy went nuts and racked up almost 300k in bad debt and had to file bankruptcy. He also got to see the world and vacation in places I have only dreamed of.

If I could do it all again, I think I would probably go nuts.

There's probably a happy medium somewhere between saving every penny and blowing 300k on adventures.

If you're gonna indulge to the point of bankruptcy... go as hard as you possibly can. It's what, 7 years of absolutely trashed credit right? Just make sure it's all consumption (like travel) and not something you're gonna have to give up.

/s live responsibly. i have zero experience with bankruptcy, but what i do know is I'd advise against it.

Trash credit has way more of an effect on your life then you think. If you have credit bad enough you might not be able to even get a cell phone or a bank account. Hell you might not even be able to get cable or internet.

I think his point is "if you are going to file bankruptcy anyways, might as well be 300k in debt and have traveled the world vs 100k in debt and not have."

Except that debt gives you tangible assets. Its ok to be in debt if you get something permanent out of it.

Also you can go to college and not be that much in debt. You may have to join the military, or you have to be a good enough student to get scholarships, or just go through CC first. People just do the loans because its the easy way.

Traveling the world isn't an asset. They aren't going to erase your memory.

The stress you have to deal with afterwards can absolutely fuck up your memory

Debt doesn't mean bankruptcy. But spending 300k and not getting anything to show for it usually does.

Perhaps you value having"things to show for it", while others value experiences. There's no"right", it's preference

I love my trips around the world Suriname was gorgeous, the sea life of the Caribbean is amazing, the history and castles of Poland is amazing. Same with the 11 other countries I have been to.

That being said I didnt dump 300k to do that. Sorry its not worth putting your self in a position like that. Hell not only will you have difficulty accessing the perk of western society like internet, banks, ubers, cell phones. It will keep you from getting jobs.

I didn't claim it was worth it. I did however state that someone's values about what they go into debt for can be "worth it" to them, the same way a house/mortgage was"worth it" to you. Who is anyone to judge someone else's values?

The entire premise of this subthread is that you are planning to file for bankruptcy and deciding what to do with the money you are, essentially, fraudulently obtaining from creditors in the meantime.

If you declare bankruptcy don't they take your assets to mitigate as much of that debt as possible ?

Debt doesn't mean you declare bankrupcy. You only do so when you have become insolvent. Debt is actually a good thing because it allows you to improve your situation. Its only when you take on to much debt thats when you be fucked.

But what they take and what you keep depends on your state. For example if you own your home or have kept up with payments then they cannot force you to sell that in my state. Its called the homestead exemption. They also cant take my bible, I can keep 2 sheep and other weird ones.

https://www.thebankruptcysite.org/exemptions/massachusetts.html

Except that debt gives you tangible assets. Its ok to be in debt if you get something permanent out of it.

Also you can go to college and not be that much in debt. You may have to join the military, or you have to be a good enough student to get scholarships, or just go through CC first. People just do the loans because its the easy way.

It also doesn't involve potentially being shot at. Also, what CC is free, and what CC gives you free tuition to another university?

ever heard of FAFSA?

It also doesn't involve potentially being shot at. Also, what CC is free, and what CC gives you free tuition to another university?

I live in Detroit, and the CCs while not "free" have tons of co-op programs that make college free.

I ended up making decent money in my co-op. And I got a good job.

Also that same CC IS tied to several 4 year schools, so I'm getting my bachelor's degree for like $95 a credit hour.

College is basically free if you disregard wanting to "live the college life" and apply for a few scholarships/internships.

I paid $45.00 total for 6 semesters of community college. $7.50 per semester, then I transferred to SJSU where I took two $5,500 loans over two years I was there and graduated.

Fine then enter public service, loans forgiven after ten years. But none are free but they cost 5 or 6k a year as opposed to 30k a year.

And forget about renting a decent place to live or actually buying a home of your own.

Baby steps man if you are filing bankrupcy for doing stupid shit with your money. You probably will never make it past the basics.

Uh, how is credit score related to cell phones or cable internet? Did USA quietly implemented some sort of a China-like social score system that forbids selling stuff to people with bad credit? Do people at the stores require IDs and check your credit score before selling you a phone? I don't get it.

Yup they run your credit score before you get the plan if you are not prepaying. You are entering a financial contract with someone, be stupid not to.

Just look at a cell phone contract they are giving you an asset that is worth from $400 to $1000 plus the value of their service. Its essentially a loan. If you have bad credit odds are you will default and they will be out the cost of service and the device. Which odds are they will never get back.

Same with cable or internet.

You can get around that by prepaying for the service and providing your own equipment. Its actually one of the ways you can build up your credit again.

Its also why services like boost mobile exist. You buy the phone and prepay your bill monthly at the store. You go there because verizon won't give you a plan.

But obviously you will end up paying more because they dont trust you.

Ah, ok. Thought it was about the regular "get a phone, get a card" case. How common is it to get a plan/contract for cellphones in the states? Is it just a marketing ploy (walk out of a store with a new iPhone for $5), or are there actual advantages to it?

You used to get the phone for "Free" with an upgrade every 2 years.

Now a days its essentially a no interest loan to buy the phone. You make an monthly payment on top of your bill (Around $20 for the newest and greatest). Phone is payed off in two years. You can then trade in your old phone for a discount on the next. Usually $100-$200 off, depending on the phone.

They do offer deals though, like get a family plan and buy one phone and get 2 free. Or upgrade every year, just make the payment as usual.

TLDR: You get a payment plan on a $1000 phone at cost. And there is no upfront cost outside tax, just pay every month.

I don't think there's any country where you can't get decent prepaid cell phone service these days.

It’s 10 years now.

I’ve known a few people who have filed. One had a failed business due to theft, one due to medical bills, one where her spouse had a gambling problem, one where the spouse was caught embezzling money...

All would agree that not going bankrupt is ideal. But sometimes you get shit luck (or a shit spouse) and everything works against you. Even if you live responsibly.

Bankruptcy makes life hard, but it’s not as terrible as I thought it would be. It’s a great tool to allow people forgiveness for past mistakes instead of punishing them (and their family) for their entire lives. It shouldn’t be the first option, but don’t write it off either (pun intended)

Most rent because they can’t get a mortgage. Usually a huge deposit and/or prepayment. Cars are usually cheaper and bought with cash. Cell phones are paid in full instead of using the 2 year payment terms. Zero credit cards, so cash / check (not sure if by choice or forced though). Comcast made them pay a deposit (I think about 6 months worth of payments).

I don’t know anyone who just was reckless and spent money knowing they would never pay it back.

There are affordable ways to see the world that don't involve joining the peace corps.

Uhh, you still have to pay that money back lmao. A lot of morons who go 300k in debt don't realize that. Your wages are gonna be garnished forever lmao.

Hey now, i disclaimed i have zero experience with it!

Depends on what your income is, not all income is garnishable and if you really wanna go hard on the debt shit credit life just get everything else like car etc in someone else's name just don't marry them

Maybe if you have a pension or some shit, you'll never be able to hold any assets in America if you file bankruptcy until your debt is paid off

You just get all your assets in someone else's name is all, its super easy to game the system if you don't have any morals and/or don't care about being sleezy

What and never own anything valuable for the rest of your life? If it’s in someone else’s name they can take or sell it anytime they want and you’d have no legal recourse. That doesn’t sound like gaming the system.

There are lots of people who rack up tons of debt, have no means or desire to repay any of it and get things in their parents names knowing their parents will never try and sell the stuff etc

Fraud is a crime FYI.

It's not fraud, otherwise people would be going to jail/paying fines for doing it and they don't it's 100% legal to have relatives sign/buy you things ya know

Bankruptcy wipes the loans. You have to sell anything of value you own, but other than a black mark for 7-10 years, you don't have to pay it back.

What exactly do you think filing for bankruptcy is?

If you make anything above poverty level wages your wages will be garnished. The type of person to rake up 300k in debt isn't making $10k a year....

You should stop advising people about shit you know nothing about, like bankruptcy.

When you default on debt, you don't just get to say "sorry, I don't have any money to pay you back. Sucks to be you!". You can have your debt lowered to something thats agreed upon by whoever you owe the debt to, but it doesn't just disappear. That would make no fucking sense.

Bankruptcy is literally saying “I can’t pay these debts” and having them discharged. There are different types of bankruptcy, so sometimes (depending on what you file) you’ll set up a repayment schedule, but sometimes your debt is simply wiped.

It’s bad for your credit, but you won’t be prevented from ever buying a house or a car again. You can, in fact, exclude some debts from your filing if you want to, say, keep a car that you can make payments on. Obviously there’s a limit to what your assets can be and what can be excluded, but you are giving out some seriously ill-informed advice here.

Lol, sure. Enjoy working for cash for the next 7 years then. The only people filing chapter 7 are already useless members of society anyways.

That’s really not true. There are upwards of one million bankruptcies filed a year, and more than half of those are due to medical debt. You don’t have to be a useless member of society to become ill or injured. Nor does making a mistake and getting over your head in debt make you useless. Nor does losing a job, or getting a divorce, or having a sick child.

The most useless members of society I can think of are people who spend their time on the internet purposefully trying to hurt other people for entertainment. That said, I’m truly sorry that your life turned out this way. I’m sorry you’re hurting. Hurting other people isn’t going to make you feel any better, though. There are so many things you could be doing that would be both useful and healthy, and I hope that you consider trying to find one that you enjoy.

Facts: Filing for bankruptcy will not force you to work for cash for 7 years (or any amount of time). It will affect your credit, but most people who are in a financial position where bankruptcy is the best option don’t have stellar credit to begin, and their credit scores will be higher than pre-bankruptcy level in much less than 7 years.

A lot of people who go bankrupt are stupid, true. But sometimes shit happens. Medical bills, family tragedies, natural disasters that level family homes... this shit happens.

Most people don't have savings they can rely on when shit really hits the fan. They look like they're doing fine, but one nasty blow and it can be all over in a flash.

Shit, that goes for businesses too. Some industries (like retail) are saturated and have very, very thin profit margins. Like, less than 1% in many cases. All it takes is a small change in market conditions and it's gg no re.

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EDIT: Because this is a mostly American site, I'm going to assume you're American even though I'm not. You should know better than I do how nasty a sudden and unaffordable medical bill can be in a system that doesn't properly protect you when you have no insurance. I've broken my leg before and severed the frontal tendons in my right leg. With my current financial situation (in the green, but with no assets and less than 1k in savings) I would have gone instantly bankrupt no questions asked had that happened in the US.

That's exactly what bankruptcy is, it eliminates obligations. Like I said, stop talking about shit you don't understand.

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I do know what I'm talking about and nothing in that summary article contradicts what I wrote. The other guy hasn't ever heard of the concept of negotiating down a debt, let alone bankruptcy details.

I have no idea what people are downvoting for. What exactly is wrong with what I posted? Honestly, curious to see what others are thinking here.

You're literslly retarded. Read that article posted below. I guess if you're working for cash for the next 7 years then so be it, but you'll be fucked if you get a real job. Anyone filing for bankruptcy is already a loser, anyone who thinks they can take up a bunch debt and never have to pay it off it extra special.

As much as im miles away from bankruptcy and live well, how is everyone applying for it a loser? Some maybe not that smart and have made poor decisions but plenty of people get thrown into it through fault not of their own. Houses being ruined by things not covered by insurance, extortionate medical bills, or depending on how you view it, victims of substance abuse. Divorce with poor favour? Businesses tanking?

It's a pretty rash way of looking at things you've got there.

Holy fuck you're out of your depth. You wouldn't need to work for cash for 7 years, where did you even come up with that bullshit?

It’s situational. You don’t always have to pay it back.

I mean this is definitely true. If you are going to file for bankruptcy, you might as well go HAM on the experiences beforehand.

You're probably right. My brother went full on bankrupt not even 7 years ago and he has the same credit score I do. All I did was not paying something like 300$ to a credit card company a long time ago and my finances are pretty solid.

You clearly haven't been to r/frugal. If you're not saving everything you will go bankrupt.

not really. if you're gonna bankrupt yourself, at least make it worth it. why do you think career shoplifters steal comically large amounts per trip? it's because it increases their risk/reward ratio tenfold.

That's the benefit of being depressed (in my case at least) I saved most of my money as opposed to spending it on experiences. Looking back tho maybe that's why I was depressed in the first place.. then again I never had the desire but forcing myself to at least do SOMETHING could have helped me. Now I'm spending more time trying to eat new cuisines and doing new activities. I'll be traveling internationally for the first time this year.

When you're on your deathbed, youre not going to remember all those times you made the "smart" decision

Won't remember anything, because dead

So...$150k in debt?

True. My wife and I maintain a savings and the only debt we have is our mortgage, and we're able to save up to travel. We're paying our bills with a credit card that earns us flyer miles, then of course immediately paying the credit card off. This is allowing us to go to places like Europe and Japan, stay in Air BnBs for pretty cheap, and see the world.

A few hundred bucks for a vacation, see the world, then come home and work without being overwhelmed with debt. We've got a happy medium right now.

That's not to say we didn't screw up in our early twenties and rack up a bunch of ridiculous debt we didn't need. We were just lucky enough to climb our way out of it and learned from it

AirBnB is ruining the rental markets in a lot of cities FYI

I'm not sure i'd use ruining.

I'll take Paris as an example (talking generally about the Parisian area, the so-called "Petite Couronne", not the City of Paris itself), because that's where i live (not originally from here, moved post-high school and now i'm renting, so i have an "inside" perspective). There were literally tons of Airbnbs here (was one of their biggest cities) because, when you're a tourist or have just came to the city, hotels are expensive as fuck, not to mention extremely rude, small, crowded (talking about the average, of course if you pay for the Ritz, it's the Ritz), etc. It's near impossible to get a short term lease (or a long term one for that matter) because landlords want someone with revenues in France at least 3x the rent to write a letter of guarantee that they'll pay your rent if you refuse to do so. So, getting an apartment is hard, even in far away the suburbs - be it for short or long term.

So, something like Airbnb is bloody brilliant if you're a tourist, coming for a short stay, or just arriving in the city and not knowing anyone. The average quality of the average Airbnb apartment is miles better than the majority of the hotels, plus you're "at home", it's cheaper by a lot (for instance, my parents and my sister came to visit me for 5 days - at an Airbnb it literally cost 3 times less for a nice apartment next to mine, with kitchen and stuff, than a low-cost hotel kinda nearby).

As someone who rents an apartment (3 year lease now expiring, two different leases before that, and only the first one was in Paris itself, the rest in the close suburbs), i don't buy it that Airbnb is making things worse. Paris itself has always been horrible to rent/buy in, which is why there are plenty of suburbs with good transport connections. Don't want to pay a lot? Broaden your search a little and you'll find pretty great things just outside Paris.

I don't take seriously people that cry that Airbnb is making it impossible to rent an apartment cheaply in a huge city that has too many people than it can hold, it's not a realistic expectation and if you want to rent cheaply, there are plenty of places just around Paris (the farther you go away the cheaper it gets) for much cheaper, and in any case the transportation subscription costs the same regardless of where you travel with it; and i snort with derision at people bad at their jobs crying that Airbnb / Uber are stealing their market - yes, they are, because you suck at what you do (concerning Uber the taxi companies in Paris have gotten much better though, and are completely usable now - it wasn't the case when i first arrived in France, ~ year before Uber started getting in, and i usually prefer regular taxis).

For Paris precisely, Airbnbs have been legally limited with tons of restrictions, making it nigh impossible to offer your apartment on short term rentals during holidays for instance (something that people do to gain some extra money and not pay rent for "nothing"; the people most likely to do that, students, are the ones that need it the most, e.g. they go back home to their families(the vast majority of students in Paris are from all around France and the world) during the holidays and have an empty apartment they pay for just sitting there).

So - Airbnb has it's benefits from certain viewpoints (tourist, short stay), and even though it sucks for people where there are less long term rentals available due to airbnb, usually the places where Airbnb is profitable (tourist parts of tourist cities) aren't the ones you'd find cheap housing in in the first place.

Oh I'm sorry. I'm not sure what you mean by rental market

Not the OP but people are probably renting residential places (which poor people often rely on for housing) and using them as Airbnbs to profit off of them.

Yeah I live in Boston and they are currently in a fight with AirBnB throwing shade at our city councilor. Most of the people I know don’t support AirBnB landlords because there is limited housing available.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/boston.curbed.com/platform/amp/2018/4/18/17251530/boston-airbnb-regulations-michelle-wu

He means the market for rental housing. Houses that were previously rentals are now listed on AirBNB. The number of rental properties has decreased as a result, leaving people without homes, and driving up rental costs, placing more financial strain on low income earners. AirBNB has had a fairly negative impact on many communities.

Well now I feel bad. I live in an area where land and places to live are super cheap, so maybe I take it for granted. I don't want to contribute to the destruction of an industry

ISn't that the home-owners right to make that choice though ?

Sure, but he asked, and that's the answer.

Owners and tourists making that choice will have an impact on others and communities/society. While they're allowed to make that choice, people can also discuss the ramifications of it and as a society choose to regulate aspects of that choice if/when it becomes broadly harmful. If my neighbor can AirBNB their property, why can't I talk about the increase in homelessness and financial stress in my community that impacts me?

Moreover it seems strange to me to be so defensive of individuals rights regarding their use of houses as AirBNB, but not be bothered by how that choice infringes on the rights of others. What about the local residents who's quiet enjoyment of their homes are regularly disrupted, what about local residents paying increased home insurance, and the value of their properties decreasing due to proximity to AirBNB properties, what about increases in rates and taxes for everyone to cover the additional stress placed on public services by the unplanned for, unapproved guests? If you want to defend someone's choices on what to do with their home, then surely you should also not be expecting the entire neighbourhood to subsidize their choice right? If I'm subsidizing it shouldn't I also have some say?

Those business are slowly being subject to more regulation, and that, and the social problems leading up to those decisions, are worth discussing. AirBNB and similar have done well out of placing themselves outside of traditional business regulations and spaces, but that is increasingly being challenged. They seem to be struggling there, where e.g. Uber's drivers are found to be employees and not independent contractors or AirBNB's are expected to comply with safety regulations as other guest accommodations are. It's extremely unclear as to whether their business models are long term viable and they may be doing more harm than good, which people should be aware of.

You write very well, is that your profession?

Their right? Their. right? Can you point me to the bill of rights where it says that every citizen can have an unregulated hotel licensing?

Is it illegal to do so? Genuine question, but I'd assume it's not based on the fact that Air BnB is still around, along with many others like it. Assuming this, then yeah it's their right to do it.

Yes, plenty of AirBnB listings are illegal (but not all, of course). Just as an FYI, since you said it was a genuine question. AirBnB rarely works with local governments to ensure that the listings are following local ordinances (they say they're just the listing agency and it's up to the property owner to follow all applicable laws), and the property owners don't always want to follow them, if they even bother to check what they are. You might have code enforcement officer(s) trying to make sure the listings are all licensed, paying taxes, and following the various ordinances, but many municipalities are really struggling with regulating the short term rental industry. Last year, there was an article where Denver's 62 percent compliance rate was called impressive. Here's another article about Portland's local laws getting ignored.

It can affect things like the rental market, as mentioned, but also local tax revenue (if for example, there are taxes that are not getting charged and paid to the city, that should be and would be if the person stayed at a hotel), leaving fewer funds for the local community.

Interesting. Didn't know the issue was so complex. Thanks for the information.

I believe municipalities/cities set by-laws regarding rental possibilities

At least here in Canada

Yeah.... I mean I'm 31 and have managed to get to almost 40 countries in 4 continents, living in my home country + 3 others. I've never been more than a couple of grand in debt at any point (well excluding a car payment and now a mortgage).

Fuck knows what I'd have done woth 300grand. I'd be dead I reckon lol.

Yeah, I’m 30 and I’ve been to over 50 different countries and I haven’t spent anywhere near $300k doing it. Dude must have been staying in 5 star hotels everywhere and flying first class.

Honestly I’m not sure there is. If you do what his friend did, you just file for bankruptcy and for the most part it all goes away. You’re then committed to ass credit for the next 10+ years which can make life hell. But yeah.

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Yet his wages are probably being garnished and he is probably living paycheque to paycheque with no savings. Anyone can live lavishly and have nice toys and shit, doesn't mean they can afford it.

Ever seen someone who works on oil patches? Almost all of them make 100k a year and have tons of nice things. The part you don't see is that they are completely fucked if they miss one paycheque. That's why they lose everything once they get laid off.

Do you understand how a Chapter 7 bankruptcy works? When you file, it wipes all your debt away. You don't repay it, thats the whole point of the bankruptcy. A Chapter 13 repays their debts and is different.

Work for cash under the table. Problem solved.

I know there was a boom some years back. Are they still hiring people to work out in the oil fields? I'm not having a very good life.

Nowadays you need to know someone in the field to get you in unless youre lucky. They do still hire for operations management often but the wages in there are meh

Not true at all. You may have a portion of the debt wiped out, but you will still be liable for a fuckton of the debt you incur. Unless you feel like working cash jobs until you die, your wages will be garnished for a very long time...

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/nondischargeable-debts-chapter-7-bankruptcy.html

A successful file under chapter 7 discharges almost all debts. You should really fact check assertive statements before you go running all over a thread, makes you look like an idiot.

Jokes on you if their income is protected ie military VA compensation

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Idk Im not in massive debt or anything but getting that tax free 2k every 1st of the month plus getting paid to go to school is pretty legit not gonna lie

Hell yeah it is, and don't let anyone tell you differently. I graduated with several people who were there on GI bill and it afforded them awesome opportunities to become successful professionals.

How does one rake in 300k in debt? Is it an American thing?

How does one rake in 300k in debt?

College.

Is it an American thing?

Yes.

The average college debt for graduates in the United States is $29k

Fine. Then grad school.

That adds another ~$37k. There is definitely a problem with education costs in the US, but acting like $300k of debt is even remotely common is just spreading misinformation.

If you say so. I'm about to start UVA Law and the estimated debt repayment is $298,000, so while I may be a outlier, I'm not happy.

True. Also true are the 185,000 Americans that have over $200K in student debt.

Source: http://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2012/03/grading-student-loans.html (third graph down)

Out of roughly 67 million who have a college degree.

Shh. They don't want facts.

There's a bit of a midline, but it can be hard to find.

I did a bit of traveling early in my 20s and loved it. I worked 2 jobs for the summer and worked constantly through university to afford it. Cane back almost completely out of money both times, but the context it gave me is something I couldn't get otherwise.

There is. Blowing 150k on adventures.

Pretty sure it’s called ‘most people’

Yeah, like blowing $299k on adventures.

I lived responsibly through my 20s and got wiped out by the Great Recession. Still haven't really recovered.

EDIT: I'll just say it here due to all the replies, I lost all my savings and everything but my 401(k) (did not own a house), which was down 50% at one point and has since recovered, thanks to a couple protracted periods of unemployment and coming back at lower pay each time, which has affected my career since, plus an extended unemployment a couple years later unrelated to TGR. TL:DR; now I'm missing most of a decade of retirement planning plus liquidating a lot of what went before. And that's way more financial detail than I should ever share on Reddit.

I graduated college during it. There weren’t any “grown up jobs” for any of us, and a lot of us are basically just getting started now in our 30s...

Me and my useless history degree feel you so very hard.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/11/21/more-older-millennials-living-relatives-still-recession-2007-09-because-thats-when-many-graduated-hi/876747001/ By contrast, many younger Millennials have pursued their first jobs in a healthy labor market the past few years. For employers, a 24-year-old just starting out may be a more attractive and cheaper hire than a 32-year-old with a spotty resume, McLaughlin says. As a result, some members of the older group may continue to struggle with underemployment and lower wages and move out on their own at a slower-than-normal pace, Gould says.

I'm 40, I'm late Gen-X. But I did graduate with a CS degree into the Dotcom bust, so had a slow start for the first couple years out of school. Thought I could make up for it. Ha.

You're barely into genX and almost a millenial

I'm going to stick to somewhat hard lines about generations, though they are fuzzy closer to the boundaries.

I'm more culturally aligned with my elder Gen-X siblings, right down to the cynicism, even though I have a fair amount of shared experiences with early Millenials, which I attribute to being in tech (which pulls me into the latest-and-greatest in a number of ways).

Nah, I’m 33 and the first year of “millennials”. Ugh.

Did you learn your lesson to be born 30 years earlier?

Clearly he isn't pulling himself up by the bootstraps hard enough.

Right? Lazy, piece of shit millennial.

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2008 was the year most millennials would've graduated high school and moved on to college or just graduated college and moved into the work force with their shiny new degree worth nothing (save for several fields).

Gen X is just the aftermath of that without having to have actually experienced any of the hardship of adult life without being about to buy a home or take out a loan. It's still an upward battle for sure but there's no way they can pretend 2018 is the same as post housing market crash 2008.

Equity markets are up 4x since 2009. Your investment account should be flush.

Unless he was unemployed for an extended period of time and needed to withdraw from retirement savings to cover basic living expenses. Many people chose to withdraw from retirement to avoid homelessness. I had more in savings in April of 2008 than I now have 10 years later.

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My pay took a big hit during that time and while I didn't lose everything, I pulled money out of my non-retirement investment accounts and those are much lower than they would have been otherwise. It's not hard for me to imagine a much worse outcome if I had not had as good of a job to start with or if I had lost it entirely.

“Foreclosures aren’t real”

"Buying a house you can't afford to pay the mortgage on isn't real"

I understand the recession may have cause him to lose his job, but that's about the only excuse for a foreclosure.

Lost my house in the great recession... Also made some bad and unlucky decisions. Didn't work for about 20 months... Shit happens.

But it's been 10 years now... Don't really understand how OP is still having problems.

Maybe because you just read a two sentence post, and don't know anything else regarding their situation?

I took 20s to mean likely no home ownership. That, and, even if he had to burn equities, he probably could have staved off foreclosure if he was measured in how much he spent in the first place.

If you haven't recovered you're doing something really wrong, unless all of your assets were in real estate and you short sold or foreclosed on it all.

What if his assets were in a nice 401(k) account but he was unemployed for 2.5 years and had to chose between homelessness or early withdrawal penalties?

Then the issue is he can't get or keep a job, not the recession. The S&P was around $1,550 before the crash, it's now nearing $2,700. The market rebounded.

You can throw stupid random scenarios at me, but my point still stands. You have recovered unless you made bad decisions or had all your assets in Real Estate.

????

If he sold short he would be in the money dude, wat .. do you know what "short selling" means?

Don't be a poopie. He probably means selling his house short. Totally different.

Poopie doop dee doo :(

I'm 24 and have rented forevuhh so I may be out of my element here, take it away!

Bought his house for $150,000.

Forced to sell when they jacked mortgage rates up and had to sell at 80,000 to get out from under it. Still had to pay on the $150,000 loan but only had $80,000 to show for it

I'm in my early 30s and am terrified of this. I saw this happen to so many people just as I was starting out. I'm saving money (mostly in a savings account, though I am putting money into a 401k as well) for a down payment on a home down the line. I keep seeing things about how great the economy is doing, wall st breaking records, and soaring housing prices. It feels like a horrible time to take on a major liability like a mortgage, like the other shoe could drop at any moment.

This doesn’t really sound right. Where did you place all of your retirement money?

If you hadn't sold you'd have more than recovered by now.

Wait are we calling the 2008 recession the "Great Recession" now? I mean I know every financial crisis blows but seriously.. It wasn't that "Great". It was a nastier-than-average crash in the global economy.

It was one of the worst crashes in the past 100 years.

Most people refer to it as the Global Financial Crisis though... I rarely hear "Great Recession".

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Tbh I really do think its one of those things that is region dependent. One of my australian colleagues just calls it the GFC, while I've heard a bunch of different variations.

Either way, none of the names are wrong, its all just semantics.

It's been called the great recession for years.

There's something that rings true about this...and is really sad. I want to travel the world, but I will likely never have the money to do so. But I hope to never file bankruptcy either.

You can travel the world for cheap if you want to. In places like southeast Asia people regularly travel around staying in hostels and tons of fun stuff for $1000/month. There's tons of info on how to travel on the cheap all over the internet if you're interested.

That's still not cheap.

$1000 for a full month of traveling? People spend way more than that to stay at a resort for a few days. It's not hard to do if you prioritize it.

Yup it's amazingly cheap.

I spent 3k for 8 days in Japan, 2k for 7 days in the Caribbean. 3k in Dubai for 6 days. And I live in North America.

For 30 days 1k that's very affordable.

Look into working holiday visas. You can travel and work at the same time so you don't run out of money.

Depending on what your cash flow looks like check out credit card point churning.

I played for my honeymoon with only CC points.

But if you not only lived responsibly enough and did what you needed to do you can do the same things he did without being in debt. It's also pretty hard to put yourself into 300k worth of debt without having money in the first place. After a few thousand dollars of debt your credit score starts to plummet and it's hard to get approved for anything else, let alone more credit. Did he inherit something and then have enough credit to have it all crash and burn? Most people, especially poor people can't get enough financing to burn through 300k worth of debt. I accumulated about 23k worth of debt 10 years ago (paid it off of course) but I had to spend about 100k to get to that point...that's why I'm asking. Who the fuck was loaning this guy money? Any institution that does loans will check your credit first. Unless he went around to these 600% "American Sky" loan sharks and just went wild for a couple years. In that case the blame falls on them just as much as it does him.

Credit bubble baby! People, even young people with no income or assets got insane credit for a period of time in the late 90's and early 00's because the New Economy was gonna go on forever, gon go retire on my ePets stock.

But what if this was a few years ago...any time after the 08 financial crisis?

No one got a mid 6 figure line of credit even in the early 2000’s boom without having significant assets or income. My guess is he had a house that he mortgaged or something. Yes they played fast and lose with certain kinds of loans, but the fundamental math behind that stuff is relatively unchanged.

Ya unless you have significant collateral there's no way you're getting a $300k loan on like a $60k income (unless it's for a house... which is collateralized)

You shouldn't need $300 k to go traveling. I have two friends whom I always go on big trips with. Each trip costs ~$3-$5k or so for a 2-3 week trip (to Europe, China or Japan from the US). We do one big trip every year. Usually the hardest part is getting time off from work, not the cost of the trip.

If you're still in your 20s or early 30s and haven't been overseas, get a passport then sign up for a Contiki tour of Europe. You'll have to do almost zero trip planning and get to party with some fun Aussies every night.

You should be able to do a dope trip for even less than that.

Sign up for Scott's Cheap Flights, spend $400 going to somewhere like Europe or South America. Stay in hostels for $10-20 a night, cook your own food for at least some of your meals. If you're frugal, you might find that traveling is cheaper than living in the US.

I always said being broke wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world, but if I ever end up that way, I damn well better have a cool story to tell about it.

No you wouldn’t. 300k in bad debt? You’re a prisoner. 100% not worth it.

Not if you file bankruptcy

yeah but then good luck owning anything, ever

Goes away after 7 years anyways

Along with 7 years of your life where purchasing a car or home or literally anything else you'd want is impossible

I mean if OPs friend did this at age 20 he can get his shit together and get all that by his 30s.

That's still a bad argument. 10 years of bankruptcy, 10 years of bad credit, 10 years of high interest payments, etc., is all 10 years of you making yourself financially worse off. There's no reason for it. There's no reason to rack up bad debt and try to justify it. It's bad financial decision making, and everyone should avoid it like the plague. Getting your shit together in your 30s is better than never, but it's still orders of magnitude worse than never losing your shit in the first place. Compound interest makes those early years the MOST IMPORTANT ones.

It's not hard to purchase a car with cash and live renting. Doesn't r/pf suggest to rent anyway for most people

Buy a beater car with a large down payment or straight cash. Rent an apartment for a while or, better yet, grab a room with someone else.

When you rent an apartment landlords ask for credit checks. Bankruptcy isn't this magical get out of jail card people in this thread think it is

Of course it's not especially since student loans aren't dissolved. But it's also not a death sentence. You can still live and function in the world for the 7 years while your score improves.

Not all goes away after 7 years and the judge doesn’t just discharge all debt obligations. It’s called debt restructuring not forgiveness.

Difference between chapter 13 and chapter 7. With chapter 7, it all goes away.

He completely avoided jail but his credit is wrecked forever. Everything is in his wife's name.

I live responsibly through my 20s and now have enough money to travel the world in my 30s AND not worry about retirement savings. I prefer doing it my way.

May I ask how that went for you? What sorts of negative effects were there and were you able to recover from it?

My buddy was the one who had all the fun. I worked, got married, bought a house, got a divorce, lost a house, went to college, and turned 30.

sorry, i read that completely wrong. living responsibly sounds exciting though lol.

I mean....striking a happy medium is probably better, right?

Someone being honest in here.

I'm happy medium between the two and if I could have 50-75k I spent in my account now to erase the memories I'd pass.

Might have a crippling financial emergency, but I've seen the world and I'm okay with that

I honestly can't figure out how to go beyond 2k in debt, who is handing out 300k in loans to someone with nothing?

He got a shitload of credit cards and got a home loan. He narrowly avoided going to jail for fraud.

He declared BANKRUPTCY!!!!

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I would gladly have bad credit for a decade for the experiences he had.

What is his life like now?

He sells insurance with his dad, he's married, has a kid and a little starter house.

Yep, similar situation with a buddy. I was frugal and managed what little I had, and he racked up tons of debt and filed bankruptcy. 5+ years later he’s got a clean slate and now money ahead and I’m still scraping by, slowly feeling like I’m accomplishing something that seemed to come over night to him.

Travel in your 20s can be very cheap if you're responsible about it. Stay in hostels, work in workaways, teach English, check out working holiday visas.

I travel frequently and feel that i spend significantly less than my friends that spend hundreds of dollars on food and alcohol every weekend.

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write a book about it first.

except its literally stealing when you purposefully bankrupt... its just immoral

You don’t need anywhere near $300k to travel the world. Do it cheaply and it can be done for less than $15k for a year or so. You won’t be on any yachts or partying in Monte Carlo, but I’m sure the experience will be just as rich.

Traveling the world and Vaccationing across the world are very different things. You can travel the world for fairly cheap tbh, had a friend travel all of Europe, and also motorcycle through Africa all on a budget of about 7k. Travel cheap and stay in hostels no need to ball out if you want to see the world.

you still got time

man that's some real shit...I think it's worth the 300k debt.

Yeah no one should've given him that much in loans... My plan would be to get everything into protected retirement accounts, go nuts and retire when it doesn't matter anymore

Yeah, I was going to say, I wish that I had made some other decisions, like spending $1000 to go to some friends' weddings. At the time spending that money for a few days seemed crazy, but now I'll never have those memories, and I'll always be a second tier friend to those people.

What the fuck? How is that even possible? Don’t they put limits on things before you reach that much? Like around 150k, isn’t there some flag that comes up in a system saying “maybe you should finish off what you have before getting something else, buddy”?

Im not in debt and still managed to take sizeable chunks off to travel the world. Managed to spend less than 10000 nzd over 6 months. Asia is cheap bro.

It's not too late to travel to some awesome places, and it doesn't have to be expensive too. I used this site to find some insanely great deals: https://scottscheapflights.com/ I just took a trip with my brother to Asia. I flew from San Diego and him from New York. Our round trip flights to Malaysia were about $400 each. You can subscribe for free and get a couple emails a week of deals all across the world, or pay the subscription (I think it's $32 a year) and get every deal they find from any airport that you say you wanna depart from. I honestly never really endorse things but I'm telling everyone I can about this.

I wouldn't be able to enjoy those trips knowing the huge hole I was digging myself in. I'm stressed just thinking about being that much in debt.

I think the lesson here is to spend money on experiences rather than things.

Sometimes you have to buy things to have cool experiences.

I wouldn't if it means going into debt. If it means you don't get to save for a house deposit or have kids then that's fine (it's your life) but don't go into debt for a holiday, it's a terrible idea.

Personally I'm 30 and I don't have kids but I am paying off a mortgage and have been overseas a few times but would like to again someday but travelling is expensive and I have other priorities at the moment. Travelling is awesome though. By the way, I live in Australia where we do actually get time off work (more than 2 weeks a year).

In my 30's now.. if you have the chance, go crazy and just carefully plan your bankruptcy. Do it right and it's off your record and you're buying a nice house at 35.

Seriously, travel everywhere and live adventures.

Other than out and out fraud, I'm not sure how someone with nothing can borrow 300k. Usually to borrow that kind of money you need some sort of assets to back it, or really high income? He either lost more than you know about in bankruptcy or had very good income in those years.

Bankruptcy is not a solution for financial irresponsibility. It does not mean you can just walk away from all your debts. He’s a loser so don’t even THINK of duplicating his lifestyle.

Credit bust out is a form of fraud. Bankrupcy wouldn’t wipe it off.

I think he might be thinking the same thing you are, though, only with you for comparison.

Watched people "wasting" their money through their 20's on vacations, backpacking adventures, restaurants, bars, and concerts, etc. Thought they were all foolish while I saved every penny and sat at home watching anime and playing video games because I was "broke."

Now I'm secure and trying to do the stuff I put off when I was a little younger but there's always the job in the way and everywhere you go, you're the old guy in his 30's.

There are a lot of things I'd jump on if I could go back 15 years. It's hard to find a happy medium.

I blew $10k on adventures, nearly a year of international travel. I picked cheap countries and spent MONTHS researching affordable accommodation and whatnot. All the old people I know tell me they wish they'd done what I did instead of just working their youth away. I probably wouldn't get the same reaction if I'd spent $300k.

I’m with you. I’m 30 and played it very safe in my twenties. I regret it immensely. I’d happily go bankrupt if it meant I had stolen enough to see the world.

The rest of his life is now fucked, nobody will ever lend him money for a house or a business idea, he won't ever be promoted to a management level. He's committed himself to low paid grunt work for the rest of his life. Hope it was worth it.

Call me when you and your buddy want to buy your first houses. You made the right choice.

I bought my first house 7 years ago and had to sell it 2 years ago during my divorce. My buddy and his new wife bought a little house last year.

Okay, so not the best illustration of my point, perhaps, but what I was trying to say was that whatever character traits and values and decision-making skills led your buddy to rack up $300K in consumer debt in his twenties and file for bankruptcy are going to cause him a lot more grief than happiness in the long run. And one day you will be very grateful for the qualities that made you a steady Eddie.

And one step further: one day you will have a daughter who will fall in love with someone like your buddy, and you will want to tear your hair out.

Join the military. You get to see the world and get paid to do it (just be prepared to spend a couple years in that place)

I did. They sent me to San Antonio.

Or you're stuck in Kansas for 4 years. The military is not a guarantee to go anywhere cool.

He’s sounds the better route. Filing bankruptcy is only around $1K, all your debt completely disappears where you have the option to keep both your home and/or vehicles and after 7 years your credit score goes back a very good. Your friend got to live it up for years having the best time ever while you responsibly saved and were maybe frugal but you guys most likely ended up with close to the credit score after his bankruptcy fell off. Just typing that bummed me out, I think I’m jealous of your friend too. 🤗

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I hear you, but that debt doesn’t just disappear-it gets passed on to everyone else. Don’t think for a second the actual company absorbs the hit-your fellow humans do.

You don't actually understand how companies or the economy actually works. I would be shocked if you were over 18

I not only have a Bachelors and Masters in business but I also OWN a business and have for 9 1/2 years making (very low) 6 figures so I’m pretty sure that I know how business works, but obviously you know the way corporations actually work ... what’s your background? You apparently have a lot of schooling and job experience or maybe you just think you do.

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A business analyst? Am I supposed to buy that? Really? If you worked in the business field you would have initially stated that to backup your opinion ... I think it’s funny you thought I’d buy that. Now if you said you also have a degree and work experience in the business field I would have actually bought it, but you got greedy and went to deep with your lie. It’s OK, you’ll do better next time.

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Ohhhh OK, so what is it called when you get a business degree, is it a Bachelor of Wal-Mart and when ppl ask what your field is? The one where ppl buy things from others? Nope, I’m pretty sure it’s referred to as ‘ business field’ or ‘the field of business’. You can’t claim such a title and then say something that stupid and expect to still sell that your a ‘business analyst’

You’re the one making ad hominem attacks on the guy.

You're a garbage human being. Just keep that in mind.

I had to file bankruptcy at 23. It really sucks and was sort of embarrassing. It's hard to believe how spending $15-25 every once in a while can very swiftly add up to $1000.

You declared bankruptcy at 23? How much could you possibly have owed?

It only takes 30 minutes to buy that nice sports car you've been eyeing.

Also, 23/24 is when alot of people are graduating university..... soooo you could owe quite a bit by then.

I graduated college in 2011 and couldn't even get a credit card at Wal mart. Had to go prepaid for like 2 years to even get 500 credit line from Wells Fargo. Just surprised you got credit so young.

A lot of lovely credit card companies were offering student cards pre-2010 at stands in school. Instant 2000$ to 5000$ depending if you have a part-time job. Times all the big 5 banks...

Maybe it was an income/debt ratio thing with student loans? I got a Capital One credit card at 18 and a Best Buy card at 19. $500 limits on both, but they were a good start.

Got my first card at 18 in 2008 with a $500 limit. Applied for a card my senior year in 2013 and was approved for $13k. I think it's fair to say that a lot of people would abuse that limit rather quickly.

Wells Fargo gave me 2k credit at 15 years old with like 500 in savings with them in 2006. Could be the timing though housing crash was 2008

In 2008 credit card companies were basically mailing us college students mountains of credit card offers - one of them even had a check you could cash immediately, you just needed to call to get approved first. They mailed them to my parent's address and I ended up getting my identity stolen by my mother, 0/10 do not recommend. I didn't declare bankruptcy, but it was a legitimate option at the time. I was 17 when she opened one of the cards.

You can’t even get credit in the uk until 18 even then it took me until 19 to be allowed a £200 limit on a CC

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I got a £1000 limit credit card a few months before I turned 20, maybe it’s something to do with the areas we live in or something

I got a $750 credit line from discover when I was 19, you just have to look for the student cards they offer. They are to help someone with no credit history but the interest on them are pretty insane so you have to be careful

But bankruptcy doesn’t absolve you from student loans. That shit is for life.

Or were you mentioning student debt as an issue paying for the sports car?

student loans are exempt from bankruptcy if that's what you mean.

you're on the hook even if you declare bankruptcy.

You can't get rid of school loans by filing, so it had to be other types of debt.

I doubt any dealership/bank will approve a sports car loan to 23 years old.

Sounds like credit card debt most likely.

Oh yeah they will. It might be an insane interest rate, but that's half the reason the debt gets out of control.

Of course they would approve it, because they are going to be fine either way.

The dealership is guaranteed the money from the bank And the bank is guaranteed either its payments...or your car if you cant make the payments

Oh yes they will. Just look at the pawn shops, used car dealers, payday loan places, and other dens of financial stupidity outside the gates at any military installation. That doesn’t count the big billboards advertising the nearest new car dealers, Cabelas, and the boat dealers.

Don't forget the strip clubs and tattoo parlors! :D

Ah yes, not my cuppa but I’ve heard stories of them.

outside the gates at any military installation

This is definitely the truth. Military peeps often times get instant approval, its easy for youngsters to quickly find themselves imprisoned by payments. Especially Navy folks coming home with wads of cash from deployment.

If you have solid income, with pay stubs, and a down payment you can, and will get approved at most dealerships. I had a 1.9 interest rate on a 30k dollar at 18 years old. Because I had a well paying job. And no prior credit.

having no prior credit hurts you lol it doesn't help

That was my point

I got financing on a $25,000 truck when I was 20, the finance guy was kinda surprised though. I had quite a high paying job and a credit card since the day I could so I didn't need a co-sign. Paid the thing off early and sold it for $25,500 two years later so I would put that one down as a win.

tacoma?

Yup got a good deal buying it from a guy who couldnt make payments anymore and they hold their value really well.

You would be surprised to know how easy it is to get taken advantage of by companies when you are in the military. Predatory loans run rampant because they can deduct it from your paycheck.

Once you get out the real screwing begins at least that's what happened to me.

You would be surprised to know how easy it is to get taken advantage of by companies when you are in the military.

There's a reason there are so many car dealerships right off base. And there's another reason why there are so many lots on base where GI's are trying to sell their cars. I've seen base lots with boats, trucks, camaros as far as the eye can see. Because some GI bought a car, and due to their enlisted shitty ass pay while blowing it on hookers and liquor, couldn't afford the $300/mo car payment and $300/mo insurance. Which was high to begin with because most of them don't have much of a driving record or built up credit. Predatory is an understatement when talking about car dealerships around any military base.

Source: Worked as a contracted civilian at Fort Bragg, North Post.. A lot of people joining the military aren't the brightest bulbs in the building. That's probably because the majority of them are from low-income families and are young and incredibly naive.

There's a reason there are so many car dealerships right off base.

Don't forget about the strip clubs, pawn shops, and tattoo parlors!

Oh Camp Lejeune. Such fond memories. :D

Exactly...those businesses exist to take advantage of fresh recruits.

Lol, I still remember that strip club right down the street from the Midway park gate as a kid. It had those pink neon lights around it.

How did you know my car payment was 300 dollars lol

I'm a fucking genius with ESP.

I really need to stop thinking about your mom then...

You should..before the entire universe starts to collapse in on itself around you.

Because of her large gravitational field?

I had to look around me just to check I wasn't back in grade school.

Because of the planet dioramas that were done?

No because your mom kept picking me up at the carpool lane instead of you because she loved sucking my dick. You never figured out why you had those long walks home ?

My mom is dead so... I didn't have to walk home. Your mom said she gives everyone free rides.

She only gave free rides if you ate her ass out. That's disgusting to think you'd be so desperate.

I think that was the only way you got free rides.

nah you could have just asked

A lot of people joining the military aren't the brightest bulbs in the building. That's probably because the majority of them are from low-income families and are young and incredibly naive.

i'd say anyone willing to follow orders without question to fight, kill, and die is inherently not very bright, regardless of where they came from.

I agree with you to an extent. The military is very compartmentalized. Almost every job is watered down to one person doing one thing. Multitasking in the any branch is almost non existant. One it creates the opportunity for jobs and two, it creates redundancy, no one person is burdened with having to do a bunch of shit which may or may not create a cluster fuck. It's extremely efficient, which is what the military should be.

The military is also notorious for recruiting less privileged people. Outside of some misplaced patriotism or desire for an "exciting life" if you are well off do you think you'd be inclined to enlist in something so rigid and demanding as the military? Probably not. I wouldn't say that makes ALL of them idiots. Sure there are a plethora of dumbasses...just go to any bar around Fort Bragg in Fayetteville, NC and you'll see some of the most grandiose displays of stupidity in the entire country.

But I wouldn't say a complete idiot will be tasked with flying a 3 billion dollar aircraft, or help maintain a nuclear reactor. There are a lot of jobs that carry well over to civilian sector.

My comment was geared more towards marines and infantry, airborne or ground. These people tend to have the biggest egos because they're too stupid to realize they're simply walking meat shields and think the fact they get into the front lines gives them some form of valor over everybody else in the service, or the civilian world. They think because they get shot at means they get to have their dicks put on a pedestal for the rest of us to worship. Says a lot about the character of them but to be fair...they are the same sociopaths that are suited for being cannon fodder for any invasion. Gotta look at the silver lining right?

This doesn't sound like bitter resentment at all... It kind of speaks to having relatively little/limited experience with the infantry community. I mean more immersion side of that as well, not dealing with them as an outside party. At least in the case of the Marines anyway. I really can't speak for the army's side of things outside of any of the SF guys I worked with.

Pride was (is) certainly a thing, though I'd say most of that comes from shared hardship with those around you and knowing you've accomplished and been through things that few will ever know or even understand. Everyone joins for their own reasons, but I really can't think of anyone I was with who joined out of blind patriotism. The more common reasons I came across were either a family member was in (like a father or grandfather), they wanted the challenge/experience, dropped out of college and were looking for something different, or they just wanted to join. For both intelligence and socioeconomic status, the Marine Corps infantry was (is) a pretty interesting mix. Everyone that I knew was either extremely smart or an absolute moron, both at a pretty even ratio with relatively few falling in between. In terms of privileged or status, that was all over the board, though I'd say most fell under middle class. No one really gave a shit about anything like that though. If they did, it was exceedingly rare.

Leadership and management are definitely skills that cross over very well. (Even more so if you're looking to be an LEO or go into private security.) It's interesting getting out and being able to say that you were in charge of about 30 people (and god only knows how much in equipment) when you were 22. Those that I'm still in touch with have made decent and successful lives for themselves. (That the Post 9-11 GIB came out a couple years after a number of us left was fairly convenient.) I have zero regrets about any of my time in. I barely graduated high school, yet managed to finish in the top 5 of my graduating class at my university and #1 in my department. That whole experience is absolutely what helped me find success later on in life. I'd be hard pressed to say that none of it carried over well into the civilian side.

I'd be hard pressed to say that none of it carried over well into the civilian side.

I don't disagree with you with you one bit. A person in charge with people's lives can certainly run a grocery store, which was one experience I had with a veteran...hired him because he was a veteran. Please don't think I discredit all veterans..but there are quite a few with a chip on their shoulder that leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

I’d say you have absolutely no clue what your talking about...

Without any kind of explanation to back up that really short claim I'd say it's the opposite that's true.

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First one in, last ones out....sounds like cannon fodder to me. Guess that's why more infantrymen and marines die than any other enlisted or officer any other branch, right? National Guard is right up there with em.

Well no shit because they are ..wait for it ... infantry. They are directly In the fight. Obviously the number troops in ground combat MOS are higher. It’s clear you don’t understand how conventional war works. There wouldn’t be much of a war if you didn’t have troops on the ground. There’s no such thing as “cannon fodder”

It’s clear you don’t understand how conventional war works

If you knew what I did at Bragg you'd probably shit yourself. And it wasn't bagging groceries at the commisary. Don't let that ego get the best of you. This isn't the Dog House or some other shithole bar you can slide that ego on to pick up whores with.

What you did at fort Bragg .... yea that doesn’t really help your case lol that’s like saying if you knew what I did at 29 Palms you’d shit yourself..

But I wouldn't say a complete idiot will be tasked with flying a 3 billion dollar aircraft

you say that, but i'm pretty sure NASA have put monkeys in space crafts.

And the Russian's put a dog. When you're testing something on living creatures and don't need any input for controls that's what you do. But saying a Monkey can operate a B-1 or B2 or Fly an F35 is a grossly wrong statement. Great comparison bud, ya really showed your lack of intelligence...

do you intend to imply that modern jets don't basically fly themselves? please. modern military equipment is designed to be usable by anyone who's played a reasonable amount of videogames. there are apes that can build sheds bruh.

please. modern military equipment is designed to be usable by anyone who's played a reasonable amount of videogames

Try harder.

there are apes that can build sheds bruh.

Apprently they also learned how to create reddit accounts and post comments.

It's certainly not without question. For example, you do not follow illegal orders. Even if your superiors give it to you. If you do carry out illegal orders, you can and will be punished for it.

well, maybe not completely without question, but without any clue of why you're really fighting. and just because something isn't illegal by military standards, doesn't mean you aren't gonna be ordered to do some things you really shouldn't be doing.

Haha tell me about it... fought in Iraq for over a year. For your freedom? /s... hopefully that was obvious!

For the enlisted soldiers like myself, it really just came down to fighting for the man next to you, for your buddies - without any greater purpose.

doesn't really make sense. "oh, these innocent, dumb, young people are fighting a war to line some old guy's pocket, guess i should help out so they get shot less" where's the logic, brah?

The logic is you and your buddies are counting on each other to survive. The logic of the war on the other hand, I definitely can't explain.

you wouldn't be counting on each other to survive if you were smart enough to keep away from money laundering wars is the point i'm trying to make. edit: it's not like you're being invaded and you're either part of homeland defense or being drafted.

When the bullets start flying, all that shit doesn't matter. You'd understand if you had experienced it. I have no regrets with my path in life. Doesn't mean I agreed with the war though.

well said. i respect your balls and integrity, even if they come at the expense of self-preservation.

I see a lot of younger guys around here with brand new cars. I wonder how they do it until I remember our apartment complex has a military discount and the owners of those cars all look like soldiers.

And it's a lot of young guys. You aren't kidding when you say it's a problem.

Sadly no one is taught to live on their earnings, meager or otherwise.

Bingo! It was actually a few things that happened. I bought a brand new car with a ridiculous interest rate. I went through a breakup and spent a bunch of money out of town on a couple creit cards. After that I took a job making less money because of much better hours. It helped with my diabetes. I think I had a total of $15,000 in credit card debt/loans and the defeciency from the vehicle after it was repoed was like $10,000. I tried consolidating at first, but it didn't leave enough for me to live on.

US credit system must be crazy, I had a default filed against me since I refused to pay for a broken phone and that alone has prevented me from getting any credit

Fortunately I had one other credit card and used it well so I got accepted on another and I’m waiting for the phone dispute to be settled and deleted off my credit history

I'm 24, have to declare myself soon, around 4000 is medical expenses that I can't afford, even after insuance. Being out of work for a year while building visit after visit can add up. It's not hars for someone young to have to go through bankruptcy

another lesson to learn when being 20. 1000 dollars is not a lot of money to have in savings. in fact its practically nothing. If you feel comfortable because you have a few grand in savings and think you can go on a spendy vacation keep that in mind.

Please don't tell me you filed bankruptcy for $1000 of debt. I don't even know any reputable bankruptcy firm that would even take that seriously.

No, it was around $20-25,000 in debt. I was just saying that have a credit card to use to eat out on and for gas when pay day is still a few days away can get maxed out if you use it too often. I did it with one of my cards and ended up maxing it out in just a couple months with nothing to show.

Credit is good if you aren't young and naive. For everything else, there's mastercard.

well shit Ill be kinda embarrassed to get all that free cash. Ive done SUPER embarrassing shit for like 20 bucks

This. I racked up some stupid credit card debt right after buying my house at 27. Took some time but I paid it off in a few years and went cold turkey on credit cards. The only ones i have now are best buy and sears and both are kept well below maximum.

That’s why it helps to not have friends :’)

I wish I had filed bankruptcy at 23, I would've been totally clear by 30 instead of still rebuilding so many years later

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Yes, I think it was worth it. I had maybe $15,000 in credit card debt and tried consolidating. I would've had to pay the consolidation company around $600/month for four years. I paid my attorney $1,600 once, and it was done.

You filed bankruptcy over $1000?

they responded to another person. it was 20-25k.

You filed for bankruptcy over 1000 dollars? Dude...

How is charging $15 sixty-seven times with without payment "once in a while"? Spending $15 once in a while adds up to $90.

You only had $1000 in debt? What happened after you declared bankruptcy?

This! Stuff doesn't build happiness. The entire marketing industry is built around confusing you into thinking that pleasure is happiness and that things that bring you pleasure will make you happy.

People who say that money can't buy happiness never paid an adoption fee for a dog.

That’s just a loan for happiness. You pay it all back ten years later plus interest :(

Nah; all you do is take out another loan almost immediately, but for two dogs this time.

Then, ten years later 4 dogs. Repeat until you're dead or have all the dogs.

How many years would it take for you to have all the dogs under this pattern? Does the number of dogs in the world double faster or slower than every ten years?

Assuming there are 525 million dogs. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/canine-corner/201209/how-many-dogs-are-there-in-the-world

You get new dogs every 10 years.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2%2B4%2B8%2B...%2B2**x%3D525000000

27 cycles or 270 years.

/r/goodboyedidthemath

/r/theydidthegoodboyemath

/r/itwasapuppergraph

Guys are we doing monster mash or boondock saints because I’m all about it either way I just need direction

:( I don't want to wait that long. I want all the dogs now.

Don't forget to account for the market effects resulting from massively increasing demand for dogs.

Oh, so this is how cat ladies are formed

This is why I am on the path to become crazy cat lady...

Just keep rolling all your negative equity into a new model every decade then when you finally die the burden gets but on your family who never wanted a dog.

That’s a lot of dead dogs.

this is how your body gets eaten by 2048 dogs

aw man, you just described my alcohol addiction

“Hello yes I need to adopt dogs”

“Well come with me so we can pick one out!”

“Not necessary. I’m adopting all of them. “

“Ummmm...”

“Right now please.”

I’ve heard the first comment, but I’ve never heard this before. Couldn’t be more accurate. :’(

The happiness of those years is worth the sadness of passing :)

not all of it, they pay dividends for that whole period.

Being sad for a few days is worth it for 10 years of love. You can't compound that all back in a few days. If you are mourning over your dog for over a month, you need to get a grip on what life is.

My dog is just a year and a half, but I'm dreading this so much. He's a pain in the ass most times even, but when I see those videos about some dog being put down, I cry so hard.

Might I suggest not watching videos of animals dying?

Give your dog the absolute best life they can have and you won't feel so bad when they go to the big old farm out in the country up in the sky.

No, you'll definitely get more happiness out of it than you'll give away. :-)

Or a 415 vet bill on a random monday morning as I just enjoyed :).

But is the good boy ok?

Edit: good girle

She's doing alright. She still has a lame paw and we go for x-rays in a few days if it's not the newfound lymes disease.

Did you just assume its gender?

Did you just assume that I assumed it's gender?

Well you had a 50/50 shot. Animals still only have 2 genders right?

Nah bro they don’t have gender at all

All dogs are good boys

I’m pretty sure my neighbor’s dog identifies as Apache Attack Helicopter.

Everybody knows dogs are boys and cats are girls, duh.

Are you calling my cat a pussy?

All dogs are good boys

Reminds me: another big mistake people make in their twenties is adopting an animal they cannot care for.

Adopting an animal is a priceless joy in part because it represents a decades-long commitment.

Reddit: Adopt a dog!

Responsible self-aware person: I don't really have the room or the time to-

Reddit: Dog dog dog!

Responsible self-aware person: No, listen, I can't really affor-

Reddit: DOOOOOOOOOGGGGG!!!

Or bought a wave runner. You ever see anyone frown on a wave runner?

Yes but the wave runner was upside down.

No, that happiness isn't bought, it is just licensed for up to 15 years. Easy mistake.

Idk man. Just adopted a dog on Saturday. She has little interest in me but seems to love my girlfriend. Made me feel even worse.

It can take time to build a relationship! Build a rapport with treats and rubs.

Sometimes the bonds formed slowly are the strongest. Don't fret! It's still very early in the process.

Just spend time with the dog and he / she will grow to like you.

My dogs were initially suspicious of me. Now they sleep on my lap :).

People who say money can't buy happiness have also never been starving, or not been able to buy medicine for a loved one.

Money can’t buy happiness but it can give me security. I’m sure I’d be a whole lot happier if I wasn’t stressing about paying my bills or staying at a job I hate because living costs money or if I could just buy a new pair of shoes or jeans when mine shit out.

Like I don’t want millions of dollars. I want to be able to live without fear of not paying my rent because I got take out two weeks ago and now I have a flat tire.

And I’ve never seen a sad person riding a jet ski either.

Or have had to pay rent or bills? I get very unhappy if I can't pay my bills

But do you get happy if you pay them?

Or they looked at enough weirdos like Jeff Bezos and came to the logical conclusion.

As long as you make the right choice! Hard to tell with dogs until a few months go by if they truly were the "perfect" fit

Source: Just adopted two new dogs the past few months.

Or bought a motorcycle.

Or cocaine!

or bought a bike

That gets you a free doggy histerectomy here.

I know a lot of people who can't afford to take care of themselves yet own a dog...

I feel like this should be a quote attributed to some one super smart and famous.

People who say that money can't buy happiness never paid an adoption fee for a dog. — Teddy Roosevelt

People who say that money can't buy happiness never paid an adoption fee for a dog. — Abraham Lincoln

People who say that money can't buy happiness never paid an adoption fee for a dog. — Mark Twain

Having money’s not everything, not having it is.

Things that get rid of displeasure make you happy. Money does that.

pleasure is happiness

Overall I would say that this is the biggest mistake people make in their twenties. Eating expensive food, getting wasted, doing drugs, having casual sex are all fine and okay if done in moderation, but they provide pleasure, not happiness. True happiness comes from striving for and achieving your goals, experiencing new things, and doing things like finding love. People that constantly seek pleasure are bound to end up disappointed and depressed in the long run.

You twenties are a time when you aren't fully formed. If you're lucky, you don't have a family yet, you probably don't make a lot of money, but you probably also don't need too much to live on, so hopefully you have enough disposable income to find some adventure

Its interesting the number of people in the thread that mistake pleasure for happiness.

I recommend The Art of Manliness Podcast #397 for more information on the subject.

Stuff doesn't build happiness.

stuff defo builds happiness.

Money may not buy happiness, but I've never seen an unhappy person riding a jetski.

now you have though a hurricane would do that to a person.

Stuff isn't the only thing that builds happiness would be the truest way of wording it according to me.

But that implies that stuff always builds happiness...?

Let's call it "Stuff isn't the only thing that can build happiness" and end the nitpicking there then.

Financial security breeds happiness. A Gucci bag does not.

Honestly - many things make me happy. Living with a great group of friends, seeing my loved ones, and buying/using stuff. Stuff does make me happy but it is one of many things. Saying a Gucci bag wouldn't make anybody happy is a massive generalization.

Yea but money buys a vive running on a 1080ti so I can see big bouncing anime tiddies in VR. That does bring me happiness... a lot of it.

The only time I don't feel numb is when I'm behind the wheel of a sports car.

Well hello there, Dominic Toretto

You do you bro, I just hope you earn enough money, cars can be an expensive hobby.

Maybe someday I will.

that's incredibly sad

Lots of things are, that's life. I'm content so long as I'm distracted from the sad things.

that's retarded, being distracted doesn't solve the sad problems you might have.

It's the next best thing when the solutions are out of reach.

How do you cope with being poor and alone?

Judging by your comment history it's bad video games and jacking it to porn subreddits. You should try addressing the underlying reasons you are sad instead of lashing out.

How do you cope with being poor and alone?

Judging by your comment history it's bad video games and jacking it to porn subreddits

Ope.

Life is a distraction

Do you people not know what happiness means? Ofcourse a Gucci bag can bring happiness

Financial security doesn’t breed happiness for me.

Having money around doing nothing stresses me the fuck out

I’d rather go buy guns and other things that go boom, video games, drinks with friends.

I’m gonna die eventually, I’d rather die near broke but with a lifetime of amazing memories than die rich being able to say “well fuck I sure did save a lot of money”

Perspective is important.

I’d rather have enough saved to treat cancer If I get itand then have money for whatever makes me happy.

But, stuff, nah. Experiences for me. Can’t take stuff with you. I recently got rid of most of what I owned and I have never been happier.

I think it’s actually the inverse; A lack of stuff inhibits happiness. That’s not to say that minimalists are unhappy. It’s just that if you want/need something and have no means to get it, you won’t be as happy as you otherwise could be.

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Technically it's being content no matter what the future holds, that's happiness. Not that I am capable of that or anything.

Thats more like a situation your happy about not the definition of happiness itself.

If everything is pleasurable, then nothing is.

Oh wow SO DEEP OMG.

Happiness is a fleeting emotion. What you should be after is fulfillment; knowing that there are ups and downs, but that you can handle them.

Nah, I demand constant unceasing euphoria.

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Is this pasta? 🤔

Fresh pasta!

Is... is this trolling?

How do you know the person you're replying to is part of the "young generation"?

I dunno, I think stuff can build happiness. I just wish I’d known them which stuff I still cherish now. I could’ve saved a lot of money by buying the right things.

Oh come on. I agree that you can't have material things as your sole source of pleasure and happiness but stuff absolutely can be a huge part of happiness. My guitar is one of my most prized possessions and even just looking at it makes me feel pleasure, let alone playing it. A cheap, bad to play bass, (or worse yet, none at all) would leave me much less happy.

Sure, buying stuff all the time to fill a void is obviously bad but a blanket statement like "stuff doesn't build happiness" is just wrong. I get that you mean it's more about what you do with stuff and your actions based around it etc but stuff itself is still an important part of a normal human's life.

No, but experiences do build happiness and character. You typically need money for those. Travel is the one expense I've never regretted.

I just bought a motorcycle and god damn it has made me so incredibly happy. "Money doesn't buy happiness" is a phrase to trick people into being OK with being poor.

"Money doesn't buy happiness" is a phrase to trick people into being OK with being poor.

Ding ding ding. There are a lot of rich people that are extremely fucking happy because they can buy whatever they want.

Money doesn't buy happiness, but it sure as Hell makes it easier to find what makes you happy.

Stuff does do build happiness. Can't be mad in a drift car

It totally does though? My computer totally builds my happiness because it connects me with people and information I enjoy. Fashion is my biggest hobby so my clothing and accessories bring me tons of joy. A lot of my lasting pleasure in life comes from aesthetics, so the things I have decorated my home with bring me joy each day. I have lots of material objects with wonderful memories attached to them that help me hold onto happiness I can no longer experience firsthand in a concrete and lasting way. My current car was the first car I got to pick out and purchase on my own so having it and driving it still feels very special even though I've had it for years. I get what you're saying, and there's absolutely a difference between a fleeting pleasure and lasting happiness, but material things can still bring you the latter.

Stuff most definitely brings happiness, being able to attain pleasure is quite obviously something that's gonna make you happy

Hobbies do bring happiness... gadgets and defining your desires through jealousy is the bigger problem.

Find 2-3 hobbies and spend money on them. A delayed car upgrade can pay for painting or homebrew. Don't spend money because friends or family expect you to.

I always think about how there are so many Business majors out there...they are going to school to learn how to get you to give them your money for something.

It's nice that you feel that way. Not everyone does.

To go along with that, I posit you this: No one was ever happy who took no pleasure in life. Enjoyment is necessary for joy.

Humans brains are hardwired to recognize patterns and its pleasure centers stimulated by dopamine and serotonin. Introspection and self control can only do so much when you realize your dumb primate brain can get gratification out of anything.

The things that bring me pleasure bring me distractions. Steam sale? Fantastic. I need to not be me for a few hours.

There's a lot to be said for escapism.

Stuff is just a form of high similar to doing substances. It makes you dependent on it for pleasure and provides you the withdrawal to want more of it once the high wears off.

Tell that to my music equipment...

In my experience, money buys comfort. I'm probably a little happier, but I'm not happy.

You can buy happiness, but it's like a burger. After the initial purchase it doesn't last.

Well, I’ve never seen anyone crying on a jet ski.

You've obviously never had to maintain a jet ski...

Stuff doesn't build happiness.

True, but it sure helps :(

To an extent sure. The ideal place is where you dont have to budget. You can go out for meals with friends, take that vacation and get a decent place and not have to worry if youre spending too much. Ferraris and such wont make you happy but living stress free when it comes to money sure will... I would assume because im not there

What about things that facilitate my ability to do stuff I love? (cooking equipment, nice computer, tools, etc)

"Your stuff is shit, and my shit is stuff!"
-Geroge Carlin

Stuff doesnt, but experiences do. If its your thing then spending your 20s travelling and going on adventures can be far more rewarding than saving some extra pennies. People seem to forget that they still have 30-40 years of work ahead of them to get their finances sorted.

Im not saying be irresponsible and rack up tons of debt, but your 20s can be your best years and people shouldnt necessarily spend them worrying about their retirement many years in the future.

I know lots of people who were too concerned with finances and havnt done much outside of work. Now theyre married with kids and hace to wait decades before theyre able to go off and experience the other things.

Stuff? God I wish I could afford stuff with my lifestyle inflation. All it ever bought me was restaurant food and hangovers.

Well some stuff does. Lots of stuff certainly doesn't help, but I bought a bicycle recently, and that's making me pretty damn happy. Being able to pay the rent on my apartment keeps me happy. Watching anime on my TV makes me happy. Making pizza with my stand mixer, baking stone, and baking peel, makes me fat and happy. Hence the bicycle.

Money buys happiness IMO.

My problem is that alcohol brings me happiness. And alcohol costs money.

Okay so what does build happiness then, hm? Stuff helps

I don’t have wanderlust. I don’t like going places. So buying experiences doesn’t seem like fun to me. However, I love my 1969 Pontiac. And my motorcycle. And my guitars. And my drums. And my computers and iPads and phones. And all the other stuff I love!!! Think of all the multiple experiences I can have for the rest of my life with these things!!

I feel like going in serious debt by traveling the world going on luxury vacations might be worth it in your 20s..you won't ever get to do it again when you are young.

But experiences do. And experiences can cost a lot of money. I didn’t save shit in my 20’s, and enjoyed every minute of it. Wouldn’t change a thing

Firstly, that has nothing to do with what marketing is, You're talking about advertising, not marketing...

second of all, advertisers and/or marketeers are rarely like that, even though it does happen as well....

Yep. In my 30s, paying off nonsense debt from my 20s. Well, at least now I know, stuff doesn't make me happy, so it's "kind of ok" to not have any money due to shitty financial decisions...

Starting 40 paying off all the debt from my 30s. Rebuilding sucks but once it's over for me it will he great.

My 23 year old son is struggling with this. I think he expected to just jump straight from college to the same kind of lifestyle his mom and I have now.

He doesn't remember how broke we were when we were younger. And he doesn't realize that getting the nice house and the nice car and the nice vacations took years of careful planning and saving.

This. This is what gets me because I don't really remember my parents struggling since I was young but I remember the "nice" years because I was older and was more aware.

This. And if you make any big purchases, make sure it’s something you can own and enjoy for a long time. For me, good kitchen stuff was one of these. Good cookware can outlive you if you make the investment.

I worry about that a lot for myself. I don't go out every evening. But I have a car payment in the 400s and relatively higher rent than most of my friends. I haven't saved much in a while, but I'm not living paycheck to paycheck.

Salary ~ 50k. Car payment $420. Car insurance $130. Rent is about $850 after utilities.

The car was a 2017 Maxima with 7k miles on it. Got it for $23,000 which was a steal. Put 0 down due to current job situation and trying not to take a chunk out of home/emergency savings. Got 3.3%

Post your budget to /r/personalfinance and let them rip you apart like they did to me. Since then, I trimmed my budget and increased my car payment from the minimum $222 to $800/month.

Crawling out of debt slowly but surely. And somehow I don't see much difference in my lifestyle in terms of missing stuff now that I'm sticking to a budget.

I'm tempted to do this. But I guess also trying to find a balance. I have friends that spend like no tomorrow and all my budget savy friends do nothing. Ever. And eat like spinach and carrots for dinner

Did you get your budget checked out? I'm estimating you make $3300 monthly after taxes. The expenses you mentioned come out to $1400. Food can probably be $500 if you want it to. That leaves another $1400 unaccounted for. Surely you can grab $500 out of it to start saving up?

I....actually got let go. So that has severly impacted things. Thankfully had a rainy day fund, but considering going back to serving tables at a nicer restaurant until I find a good marketing job rather than landing a shitty temporary job.

Previously I was banking close to $3000 monthly after taxes with the occasional $1000 bonus every few months that would then be taxed. I was working hourly and so at the end of the year it ended up around 50k with bonuses and fluctuation and such.

Trying to figure out the best way to cut out non essentials and eat cheap. Previously food costs were my biggest wasteful spending.

That sucks! Job search has been rough for me as well. Thankfully, I teach english on the side on an hourly basis (don't live in the US anymore), and that pays very well per hour. Only issue is finding enough students.

Best of luck to you.

Lol careful. Reddit HATES new cars

It was a slightly used CPO I got for a steal actually.

Nissan is notorious for subprime lending

21 here. Your car payment is as as high as my rent+utilities lol.

What? Where are you living? Cost of living differs so wildly around the US. I live just outside Boston and pay $2000 for a one bed, ~1000 sq ft apartment.

God, is Boston now that expensive too?

For my 1,000 sq ft 10 ft high ceilings, all upgraded (new appliances, wood flooring etc, granite counter tops etc) 2 bedroom 2 bathroom condo with a yard is about $1425. Electricity - no more than 70$ and that's living in AZ.

Boston is one of the most expensive cities in the country behind NYC, LA and San Fran. I love where I live though so it's "worth" (not really because I'd love to pay less and still live here but) the cost.

Our unit is one of two in an old Victorian with 10 ft ceilings and fully renovated kitchen/bath etc.

You forgot Seattle!

You're right, I did!

Oh man, your place sounds lovely.

I really do love where we live. It's less than five minutes walking from downtown, surrounded by parks, we have our own garden and two car offstreet parking (a rarity for rentals). Our landlords live above us and are ridiculously nice. Easily the best place I've lived- my boyfriend and I split the rent so we're living well within our means. I'm an interior designer so having a nice place is important to me!

Welp, that just all makes sense now LOL Sometimes I hear peoples reasoning's and I just gawk. But with your career and an extra head in the house, then I can't really fault you for it. Especially if you can afford it. Kudos!

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4k down with a payment of 620 a month?? What's the length of the loan? That sounds too good to be true.

Our original Mortgage was like that. $85k mortgage on outskirts of town. Decent neighborhood. 2br 1ba. Cost me like 5,000 down. Payment $560/month

How long ago was that? I'm looking for the appreciation adjustment basically.

We bought in 2013. Homes around there are selling for $105k+ now

Yeah I'd love to own one day. Renting is my short term plan!

I live in one of the nicer big towns in oklahoma. I split the bill with three other guys is the catch.

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Malden is a bit different than Arlington, hah. And rents are historically more expensive than mortgages. Our rent is below market rate for the area right now.

That is way too high of a car payment for your income.

My car payment used to be $360 and before that was around $190. But that was a $9000 old car with 50k miles on it that died on me right before 100k miles.

Study what you are buying. I got a 12 year old truck and got it for 9k, put tons of miles on it and have done nothing but change the oil once and changed on wiper blade. Certain vehicles are not flashy but they get the job done. $233 a month on a 5 year deal (yes, I am getting raked over the coals on interest) but the truck works great. Beefier starter, alternator, battery, water pump, tires, everything lasts longer on a truck. To maximize your money get a truck meant for work, not style. Get the 8ft bed and the 34 gallon tank. IF things like that don't last, municipalities stop buying them.

Would you mind supplying some details on your truck purchase? I'm saving up for when my 97' Accord needs higher repairs than it's bluebook value and want to get a truck. Ideally I would like something that is capable of going down questionable dirt roads to get to camping and hiking spots. Im thinking a little bit higher ground clearance and maybe on demand 4x4 would be nice. I don't need a large cab or anything fancy but I looks like the bottom line Toyotas start at $25k new and are only maybe $5k less when used with less than 100k miles. This just seems too high to me.

but I'm not living paycheck to paycheck.

Hint: Unless you have a solid 4-6 months of emergency expenses saved up, you are living paycheck to paycheck. There are a lot of lower middle class families that are two or three missed paychecks away from homelessness.

I do have that saved up

It wasn’t specifically directed at you, so sorry if it came off that way. It was meant more as generalized advice, since that’s what the thread is about.

It's all good. Didn't take any offense

How much pleasure do you derive from your car?

On what scale?

Eh.... 7 pleasures?

Your brain is a powerful intensity matching machine. You know the answer to the question even though it doesn't have a unit of measure attached.

Speak for yourself! My brain is feeble and barely sentient!

Goddammit, who taught the axolotls to use the internet again?

Mine is higher, but I consciously made that decision and can afford it. I just spend less on going out and drinking and that kind of stuff.

Why would you have a car that costs that much? Why not buy a cheap car ($5000 or less) in cash and put the money you would have spent into savings? Or your higher rent - why is it higher? can you feasibly move to a less expensive apartment?

Because $5000 cash will usually wipe out a savings account.

the down payment on a car with a $400 monthly payment would most likely be in the realm of $5k already though

Ah, that's a good point

Not if you have a co-signer with good credit

Could go finance a 5000 dollar car. a 400+ payment is like... a brand new 30k+ car.

Do you honestly think someone who can afford a $400/month car payment wants to drive a <$5000 car that probably has 150000+ miles and will have to pray it starts every morning and doesn't break down?

I could very easily afford a $50,000 car. I drive my old car that's worth about $3,000 with 100k miles on it because I'd much rather put that money into my 401k and retire in 30 years at 55 rather than in 40 years because I lived lavishly.

So, yes

I mean, there's nothing wrong with a car with 100k miles if you've taken halfway decent care of it along the way. Its more the "I bought this $800 beater with 220k on it because my last cars transmission died and its all I could afford, but now I can afford something better, so I took on a $600/mo payment for 4 years".

You aren't going set your retirement back 10 years because you decided you wanted a $25000 car when you were 30, and you took out a reasonable loan for it, unless you know, your retirement fund was empty at 30, and you held off on saving money because of the car or something like that.

I see a lot of people I know saving a ton of money for their retirement, and its great, but a few are a bit too aggressive with it. If you haven't taken a vacation in 20 years because you're afraid of spending 2 grand that could otherwise go into your investment portfolio, or retirement fund, you're doing life wrong. What good is having a good income when you're retired if you're too old to go out and do fun shit with that money? Save, save a lot, but don't do it at the complete expense of living a little while you're young. Go on that vacation, maybe skip out on buying a boat, but don't be afraid to take your spouse out to dinner once a month.

It's a salvage title that's been in a food and 5 accidents. But it's got AC, heat and goes from a to b with me in it.

It's not just the car. I bought a smaller house (still more than I need) than I could afford, an older car, cheaper vacations (Cozumel and Iceland rather than Spain and Thailand) do my own wash and cleaning rather than having a maid, etc. It adds up and fast. I'm in track to retire well before 60 and possibly by 50 because I budget (along with making a lot).

Some people do go too far but, I'd argue that more people just don't give it due consideration. I have a number of friends who make half of what I do that driver nicer cars, live in bigger houses and whatnot

Jeez, with that list, I can see why people fret about retirement. I couldn't dream of spending money on a maid, doesn't matter if I can afford it, you spend 10 minutes a day just lightly cleaning things, and they'll never need that 3 hours of deep cleaning that a maid would otherwise do!

My wife and I bought a bigger house than we would need just for our family, because we run an in home daycare, and need the space for that. We have friends who make less money than us, and have houses twice as big, and I'm not really sure how they afford it. On the other hand, we have friends who by themselves make double what we do combined, and live in the cheapest housing they could find, which is somewhat mindblowing, because I mean really, if you're the type of person who won't go out for a drink or dinner because its "wasting" money, so all you do is sit at home when you aren't working, wouldn't it be nice to not live in a sardine can?

I'm lazy, having a maid would be nice. That being said, I can buck up and clean like you say.

I think you're misunderstanding a bit. Its not about denying yourself, hell I'm having a fancy cheese and wine party with friends tonight, its about saving where you can. Some nights I don't go out because i'd rather save the money but, others I come home and don't want to cook so i go out. For those who can afford less, those choices just come up more often if they want to aggressively save. I'm lucky enough to be well-off enough that I can put 15% to my 401k without thinking about it and still save on top of that but when you can't, maybe being a sardine a few more nights a month is worthwhile.

No no, it sounds like you're doing it right. I'm just stating some people go bonkers overboard and fail to live their lives to any extent while they're young and have energy, saving every penny (when they are certainly much more well off than average) for their old age. So they can do...What, exactly? I'm not sure.

Got sick of it. Bought a nice truck. Never looked back.

Because some people enjoy cars to the point where they will sacrifice other areas. For example, maybe someone isn't home much so they don't care about their apartment, but they really like cars. For some people, their cars are not only a tool to get around, but also their hobby. You may not understand the interest, but that's beside the point.

Edit: Just so no one gets the wrong idea, I'm not advocating for people to put themselves into financially dangerous situations. Make sure you do your homework and actual understand what you're doing when you decide to spend more on a car (or anything)

Totally understand the interest, but that is a really expensive hobby and not an advisable one from an economic standpoint in your early-mid 20's, unless your okay with fixing up old Miatas that is.

It can be. Some people are fine with just buying a somewhat expensive car and keeping it the way it is. They just love driving it or something like that. What I tend to to see is that the people I know (including myself) that have more expensive cars tend to cut back spending in other areas of their lives.

Different things for different people. Plus around here, a $5,000 car wouldn’t be worth the cost of constant repairs for whatever is wrong with it to make it worth $5,000.

I also have a $400ish car payment. I wanted to get a certified preowned so I don't have to worry about a sudden car problem derailing my life for a month. It's really easy to find a $5000 car with major hidden issues. Once you get burned on something like that you try to avoid it

The Millionaire Next Door is a great book for this. They suggest saving 15% of your earnings and investing it. Treat it like any other expense. The book is dated but the advice and way of thinking is sound

I’d focus on increasing your income, not that you car payment is 100 too high. The latter is an issue, but reddit tends to prioritize decreasing spending over increasing income which I find silly.

I think there needs to be some balance. Obviously try not to get into debt, but take risks and blow some of your money on doing fun and exciting things while you're young before you have to buckle down too much with a lot of responsibilities.

More specifically, credit cards. This is the easiest way to get into debt in your 20s; it's ridiculous how much credit card debt you can build up when you're earning almost nothing. Banks seem to deliberately target young college students; they're like drug dealers. Go to any college campus at the beginning of the semester and you'll see booths everywhere - "Sign up for a credit card and get a free t-shirt!" And this is all pushed on 18-19 year olds that were living with their parents less than two months ago. Of course they're not going to manage a $1,500 line of credit responsibly!

Before you know it, you're thousands of dollars in debt, and all you have to show for it is some drunken memories and a bunch of electronic toys that will be obsolete before you finish paying them off.

Avoid credit cards like the plague until you have lived on your own and paid your own bills for a few years. Your future self will thank you.

I was a pretty independent and responsible college kid, as it goes, but I still avoided credit cards "like the plague" until I absolutely needed one (for a vacation, which isn't technically "needing" but I worked hard, okay?) when I was financially secure. It still took me a while to pay off, but that was my ONLY debt so it was okay. I agree with this poster; avoid credit cards until you trust yourself completely.

Dear god, this!

I've had two friends who have dedicated themselves to 7 day work weeks, because the money is "too good to pass up."

Within 3 months, both were ready to quit, but never did, because that next paycheck always comes, and it's always big. And they always want some new fun toy.

There's nothing wrong with working that type of job, but there is an adage you have to keep in mind:

Work to live, don't live to work.

My friends are now trapped, desperately trying to save money to cover expenses they never thought they would have, because the allure was to good to let go.

There's nothing wrong with wanting nice things; except that you're 20 years old. If you want nice stuff, save your money; pinch every penny.

It's not worth having nice shit now, if you can't enjoy it. And you have much more time to enjoy it when you're retired at 50, instead of 70, with enough money in the bank to not worry about how you're going to pay off that $350,000 mortgage, or wondering why spending $2500/mo on amenities didn't lead to money in your savings account.

There's a balance. I'd personally rather worry about work than worry about money.

And including living a lifestyle you can just barely afford. Never know when that car accident puts you in the hospital.

People older than 20 do that shit too. Live way outside their means.

Thankfully at 21 I realised I was being stupid and now at 22 Im only resolving a year and a bit of living beyond my means and focussing on getting a mortgage rather than realising at 30!

And you'll know when this happens very quickly because you'll go into debt almost immediately, or further into debt if you already are.

this is me but i justify it by telling myself i wont be able to live like this when i have a family or something.

looks at fellow E1s-E4

I would say spend away but don’t overdo it, you never know when you’ll be in the ground.

Yep. I had $17000 in debt when I got married in my late 29s. Took 5 years to get it paid off so we could move forward.

How did you get that debt? And how'd you pay it off?

Going out with friends to clubs, restaurants, etc. Taking vacations I couldn't afford. Video games and other electronics. Etc, etc.

Eventually I decided to admit my situation to my parents and ask for their help. They were happy to help and took out a some kind of loan – line of credit, I think – that I paid back over the course of 5 years.

It’s tough. Especially when you’re talking about travel. I have heard so many boomers tell me and my peers “travel now while you have the chance! You can get a job later and you won’t have time or energy or money! Do it!” And many people my age have taken that advice and decided to back pack across Europe or Latin America for a year (or longer. Or 3 years of alternating work and travel for a few months) and I’m sitting here like “damn.”

I had friends right out of highschool max out credit cards on couches, cars, clothes, stupid shit they didn't need and they're still paying it because they weren't financially responsible.

How can you afford your rock and roll lifestyle?

Learned this he hard way, wasn’t a fun time for me but I learned my lessons

I bought 2 cars... owe too much to sell

Yeah, I was going to say maxing out credit cards, but this says it just as well.

Corollary: borrowing too much money.

Is that ever not a mistake?

I live a 22 year old lifestyle with the best job, most loyal friends, and a crazy (but extremely loving and loyal) girlfriend. But I still drive an Audi I can’t afford.

To tag on to this. The whole 'I'm still young, I need to have fun and I don't need to take life seriously' mentality because I'm in my 20's.

Have a fun but if you're still barfing in toilets 3 days a week at 29 you might need to re-evaluate your life style choices. This can also be the person who decides to life seriously at 35 and is frustrated that they don't have the same things as someone who made that transition at 25 (duh, what'd you expect, they have a decade of growth on you.)

Maxing out credit cards. Kids witness their parents opening up credit cards at major retail stores, not understanding what it means. Since most teens are inadequately prepared for handling finances fresh out of high school, opening credit cards is just what mom and dad always did!

Credit cards are great when used properly and paid off monthly. 20+% interest is ungodly. My dad calls the interest charged on credit card purchases a "stupid tax".

I've seen a lot of people on Reddit get beaten up for this attitude but I agree completely. The trick is you MUST have impulse control...

If you don't have impulse control, DON'T GET A CREDIT CARD! USE A DEBIT CARD, and only keep money that you can spend (that isn't for your rent) in that account.

Edit: As some people have pointed out, secured cards may be even better.

Problem is credit cards are absolutely necessary to having perfect credit. Also, if used properly, they're great for buffering your day to day expenses. The key here is to almost never carry a balance over month to month.

I'm 24 and have never had a credit card and have no intention of ever getting a credit card. My credit score was 760 the last time I checked it. It's not a perfect score of 850 but it's still pretty damn good.

I absolutely refuse to get a credit card, credit card debt is a huge issue in my immediate and extended family and is a huge reason why they won't get out of poverty anytime soon. I know that they got themselves into that situation by spending more money than they had, but to me it's just not even worth risking it. It's the same reason I don't gamble, smoke cigarettes, and rarely drink (I only drink when I can't smoke weed and don't want to be sober).

Credit cards can be great if you dont overspend because they have rewards points and sign up bonuses.

For everyone that benefits from those rewards points or other bonuses, there are hundreds or thousands of people that had to pay high interest rates or other fees. Credit card companies are a successful for profit business and they make their money from their customers which are people with credit cards.

I absolutely refuse to get a credit card, credit card debt is a huge issue in my immediate and extended family and is a huge reason why they won't get out of poverty anytime soon. I know that they got themselves into that situation by spending more money than they had, but to me it's just not even worth risking it. It's the same reason I don't gamble, smoke cigarettes, and rarely drink (I only drink when I can't smoke weed and don't want to be sober).

This is like saying you won't ever drink or have fun because a family member couldn't handle alcohol and went off the deep end.

Anything can be misused including credit cards. They're absolutely amazing if you don't keep the balance every month. Having a buffer between your expenses and your actual checking account is incredibly useful. Rewards programs are also very valuable. I just booked a trip out of the country and already received a $200 rebate from my credit card company.

However, if you have poor self control then yeah maybe you should stay away from them.

Lastly, you do have a great credit score.. however, getting past 800 is what you'll need to unlock the best mortgage rates and credit cards can help you do that. Apply for em and never use em. Or buy something every now and then on it and immediately pay off the balance.

This is like saying you won't ever drink or have fun because a family member couldn't handle alcohol and went off the deep end.

Quick reminder that not drinking because alcoholism runs in your family is a perfectly reasonable choice.

I was just going to say the same thing. People seem to have a difficulty understanding that a lot of folks just don't want to drink whether it's because they've seen what it can do to others, or simply because they don't want to.

This is like saying you won't ever drink or have fun because a family member couldn't handle alcohol and went off the deep end.

This is a completely reasonable thought though.

Cash back on credit cards is good as well. I pay all my bills on my credit card and pay it off every month. Get quite a bit of money back total

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I don't know how your country works I'm speaking strictly United States.

Credit cards are much better in the US from my experience. Probably because of the amount of competition

Hey, I get it. If you can control yourself, then there are a lot of good reasons to get a credit card -- for example, if you ever want to buy a house without having all the money in cash. There are also points and other perks for using a credit card -- I recently took an international vacation using points I gained from stuff I would have bought anyway.

But if you have spending impulse control issues and fear that you would end up spending too much and going into credit card debt, then of course it's better to avoid credit cards entirely.

I have invested 15% of every paycheck I've earned since I was 16, I fully intend to purchase a house in cash by the time I'm 30.

Also, why does everyone have the idea that you need a credit card to purchase a house? That's such bullshit, as long as you have a decent credit score, or proof of paying bills regularly for at least one full year, or have a significant down payment (30%) you can get a home loan. I know this because I tried buying a house when I was 19, and I was turned down for a home loan when I had 0 credit score, I had only lived on my own for 10 months, and I only had enough saved up for a 15% down payment.

My main issue with credit card companies is that they are a for profit business and the card holders are their customers. They make a ton of money off of people that don't use their card perfectly. For every one person that gets enough rewards to pay for an international vacation, there are hundreds or thousands of people that end up paying high interest rates or other fees. Signing up for a credit card comes with a very high chance of losing money that you wouldn't have lost if you had just paid for things with your debit card or with cash.

You only lose money if you either are addicted to spending and have poor impulse control, or your financial situation is so desperate that you have to go into credit card debt to afford food and other necessities.

Because I grew up in a fiscally responsible household, the idea of going into credit card debt is ridiculous to me - - why on God's green earth would anyone spend more money with a credit card than they're able to pay fully every month? Credit cards are for earning three cents on Amazon for every dollar I spend, 5% cash back on groceries, etc.

But this is a privileged way of thinking, and I understand that there are folks who are either afraid of their poor impulse control or have seen people they care about go into credit card debt, and thus don't want to use credit cards.

This is fine if you never plan on taking out a home loan in your entire life. If not, you need multiple active lines of credit

Remember thats only a US thing. In the rest of the world they don't tie your ability to get a mortgage to how well you paid your cc loans.

Well, didn't actually know that. So what do they base it on?

They look at your income of the last 3 months, if you have any current loans and (just like in the US) how well you paid off old loans. The biggest difference is that they don't hold it against you if you haven't had loans before applying to this loan.

Damn, I'll take that over the shitty US's system any day.

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I have invested 15% of every paycheck I've ever gotten. I intend to purchase a house with that money by the time I'm 30, as in write a check for the full amount and just buy a house without having to make house payments.

If I have an emergency I can dip into that money. I don't want a credit card because I intend to never need one. If I can't afford something without a credit card, I can't afford it period.

I always thought the key to good credit was never take on unnecessary debt. I didn't have a credit card. When I bought a car, I always shopped on the bargain side of the lot (never paid more than $7k kind of bargain shopping) and always paid it all upfront. My credit scores were great. Low 800's across the board.

Well, couple years back, I decided I wanted to buy a car. Not a bargain car but, one I actually wanted. Found the car, got everything going until the bank wouldn't loan me the money. In the end, it was for the best. I didn't need the car and it would've been a waste of money.

While it worked out in my favor that time, imagine if I were at the ready-to-buy-a-house stage. Credit scores don't mean shit without a credit history. Get a credit card, put money on it, pay it off. Don't max it out but, just move money through it. I just put my gas on the card and pay it off.

I'm still not going to get a credit card. The way you feel about the car you wanted but "didn't need" and "would've been a waste of money" is the way I feel about buying everything. If I don't currently have the money for it, I can't afford it. I intend to save up and buy a house by writing a check for the full amount.

I hate that nearly everyone fully believes that credit cards are a required part of life. As someone that has decided to never get a credit card, it feels like everyone else is trying to get me to drink the Kool-Aid by telling me their justifications for drinking the Kool-Aid.

Credit cards a useful tool for some people, but they come with a significant risk, life ruining debt that's nearly impossible to crawl out of. The usefulness of credit cards doesn't come anywhere close to being worth the risk.

I've made it to 24 without needing a credit card or spending money I don't have. I am responsible with my money and I save and invest. I've invested 15% of every paycheck I've gotten since I was 16. I've done the math and estimated how quickly my investments will grow and even with my conservative estimates I will have over $100,000 in stocks before I'm 30. Although my investments have over performed what I had estimated so I should be even better off than that. That is plenty to purchase a nice house in my area.

You're only 24, and the advice you're getting from people (establish credit early so you have a history) is really good. It's cool that you have a plan to purchase a house in cash, and sounds like you're making some smart investments/etc.

That said, credit history is a real thing. You literally can't plan for everything... what happens when that new house you bought in cash needs a new roof and you don't have enough to cover it? Or your house burns down and you have to live in temporary housing for a few months?

You do you, but your concept of credit is a bit naive and there's a reason people are giving you this advice... and it's not kool-aid, it's practical experience from having life take a shit on you sometimes over a few decades.

what happens when that new house you bought in cash needs a new roof and you don't have enough to cover it?

Unlikely to happen provided the house passes inspection, and even if it does I don't intend to wipe out my entire investment account to buy the house, I will keep quite a bit.

Or your house burns down and you have to live in temporary housing for a few months?

Homeowners insurance and also, I'm not going to wipe out my entire investment account to buy this house.

Getting a credit card only makes sense if you don't have money saved up.

Of course you'll keep quite a bit. My point is that you literally never know what's going to happen in life. I admire you for saving so diligently... but consider what a year-long string of really bad luck might do. If you get to the point where you have to borrow money to keep your house (say you can't pay property taxes or whatever), and you have zero credit history, you're going to be fucked in a way you can't really understand now coming from a place where you have plenty saved.

I would rather take my chances and hope things go well than add the additional risk of having a credit card and adding credit card debt to my financial problems if things do take a turn for the worse.

I've had money problems in the past and I made due without credit cards or a credit history. I had no money saved, I made minimum wage, I could barely afford my rent. I survived on eggs, ramen, and ravioli for weeks at a time because that was all I could afford. At the time I didn't even know about the local food bank but I'm certain I would have qualified and I could have eaten healthier. I made it through that and it's what motivates me to be financially responsible. I don't know that I would have made it through if I had credit cards during that time. I'm certain I would have racked up quite the credit card debt to maintain the quality of life I had been used to while living with my parents. I would probably still be in debt from that and likely would not have learned the lessons that I learned about financial responsibility.

I'm so happy Europe doesn't do credit scores, fuck em.

We have them in Europe buddy

Not like the US mate.

We got credit testing, but no scoring.

Could you explain the difference?

Sure, but having credit is only a minor part of finances if you can't control your credit card debt. Which would you rather, imperfect credit, or several hundred (or thousand) dollars in credit card debt with no clear path to paying it off? For people without good impulse control, credit cards aren't as helpful tools as they are for other people.

That’s so frustrating. We finally became debt-free, no car loan or credit cards, and our credit rating suffered. Had to get a credit card, and use it regularly, just to bring our credit rating back up.

I just don't trust em. They're a disaster waiting to happen. I'd rather wait until whatever I wanted goes down in price, or save up to get it. If it isn't cash in hand, or in my bank account, it doesn't spend.

In the UK there are a few companies that do pre-paid credit cards. You load the money on and then spend it but it can still increase your credit score (not really 100% sure how it works as I’ve never had one but a friend with poor credit said it helped a little).

Or stick to a card with low limit.

Or use a secure card.

Secure cards are way under-advertised. They're really smart. But believe it or not, you're better off getting a card with a higher limit and under-spending is better for your credit than using even half of a card with a lower limit.

Question: What is the difference between a secured card and a debit card?

You wouldn't be building any sort of credit with a debit card. A secured card is essentially a credit card with collateral. Other than the security deposit of your chosen limit, secured cards are just normal credit cards. There are even some that offer rewards and other standard credit card benefits.

I've never heard of a secured card. But is the idea that you give the bank $1,000 and then you basically have a $1,000 limit card so long as you pay it off every month?

For me, it was a lot better than a 1:1 ratio. IIRC, right after my bankruptcy, I think they gave me 5 or 10x my collateral amount ($200, $300?).

Really great way to start building credit. Discover sucks, IMHO. And it can be hard getting what most would consider a good card. Enter the secure card.

WWW.NERDWALLET.COM

Very good site to compare different types of banking. Credit, debit, secure, mortgages, investments, savings, etc etc.

Exactly. For all intents and purposes, it works just like a normal credit card, but late payments come out of your security deposit and your limit will lower accordingly. Better than a hit to your credit score, especially if you're using a secured card to build or reconstruct it.

I'm not sure about that strategy, but I wouldn't be surprised if it works.

I will say though, that for many people, likely many people in their 20s, having that high limit card would be too much temptation.

I have very poor impulse control but fucking luckily having a balance on my credit cards stresses me out. I have no idea how people rack up thousands of dollars on them. If I carry a balance over into the next month, even a very small one that I know I’m about to pay off, it stresses me out and it’s all I can think about.

I’m in my 30s and slightly more mature than I used to be though; I only got my first credit card last year so if I’d gotten them younger I’d have probably fucked myself.

This is exactly how I feel. I'm 19 and have two credit cards, but I cannot carry a balance on them. It consumes me.

Yea but when used correctly it can help to build your credit up. I have have a credit card for the last 7 years. Always used it just for gas and groceries, paid it off in full every month. Now I am 25 and have a decent just sub 800 credit score. My fiance never had a credit card and very little history, only her student loan, she finally opened one up last year and was only able to get a $500 limit even though she has a full time decent paying job and a pretty small student loan.

Yep. Works great if you use it right.

This isn’t the best advice. Credit cards are more secure than debit cards. If you get fraudulent charges on a credit card, they can be removed. If you get them on your debit card, no shot. Also, many cards offer rewards. Cards with cash rewards allow for a percentage of each purchase to be saved, effectively lowering your normal expenses.

Plus, saying “don’t get a credit card” doesn’t get people to learn how to control themselves. Having a credit card is a responsibility, and having one can teach a huge lesson in controlling your impulses. If you can’t control your impulses, then there are options out there to control your spending limit arbitrarily. But telling people not to use one just perpetuates a cycle of irresponsibility without trying to learn from it and change it.

The real advice would be: don’t spend more on your credit card than you would if you were using your debit card.

Credit cards are more secure than debit cards

Don't debit cards with a VISA or MasterCard logo on it get the same purchasing protection as a credit card?

They do, but if your debit card number gets stolen and someone spends $1000 before you notice and cancel the card, you'll be out that $1000 until the bank investigates the charges (which can take a few days/weeks). Depending on how much is stolen you might have trouble making bills/groceries/etc.

With a credit card you just don't pay your bill until the bank removes the charges.

This I actually don’t know. If so, that’s a good point, and TIL.

The real advice would be: don’t spend more on your credit card than you would if you were using your debit card.

My advice: credit cards are not for you if you can't control impulse spending

Your advice: Credit cards are great, you just need impulse control!

No.

Impulse control isn’t just something you should say “oh well, guess it’ll never change!” to. That’s defeatist. All you’re doing is enabling your vice without trying to change it.

Would you say the same to an alcoholic, a drug addict, etc.? They’re all problems with impulse control.

“Oh, don’t do alcohol, since you can’t handle it!” Is a stagnant way to view life.

“I can’t control my drinking, so I should do something about it to become a standard member of society!” Is something that is a positive to change.

Your advice sucks for two reasons. 1) The benefits of a debit card do not outweigh the benefits of a credit card and 2) because you actively promote people not bettering themselves and overcoming their weaknesses.

My advice wasn’t credit cards are great, it’s that you should try to learn to control your impulses instead of just fucking accepting it.

But this is the internet, so why am I even bothering to try to get through to someone?

“Oh, don’t do alcohol, since you can’t handle it!” Is a stagnant way to view life.

This is literally the cornerstone of the biggest alcohol rehab program in the world: Alcoholics Anonymous. This IS a thing people say, just like "some people shouldn't use credit cards" is a thing people say.

AA is a last resort. It is not a default option.

As I said above, just like there are other options for alcoholics to try first, there are other credit cards that limit spending. But sure, go with the extreme.

Impulse control is a learned skill. Simply put. It’s not just toss up your hands and immediately say “fuck it”

Um what do you mean no shot? I've gotten fraudulent charges from a stolen debit card taken care of.

This isn't the greatest advice. I grew up terrified of debt coming from a poor family and watching my mother put herself through school on credit after my parents divorced. So I have always been a cash only kinda gal. Now in my 30s I want to buy a house but have zero credit of any kind. Really shot myself in the foot there.

But you don't have debt. If you have no problems with impulse control, credit cards are very useful tools. If you will outspend your budget, they aren't.

Wait... So if the interest rate on credit cards is so high then why do people use them? 17 yr old here

If you use credit cards right, you rarely or NEVER generate interest, because you're paying off the card in full every month. If you use them incorrectly, and can't pay off the card every month, then you end up with quickly ballooning debt.

Using credit cards the right way (like a debit card) means you can take advantage of benefits credit cards offer, like fraud protection and cash back or other perks depending on the card. You can also build credit this way, which is good for future purchases and loans. However, the card companies bank on people using them improperly and ending up with credit card debt, which the companies then have an income.

Thanks so much

No problem! Check out r/personalfinance to really get yourself prepared for the financial world out there, there are some really cool financial tricks that you should take advantage of.

Interest rates are calculated on an annual basis, so given an annual interest rate of 24% you will be seeing a monthly interest of 2%. The intention of a credit card is that even if you pay late you will pay back the rest in the next month or two, so you get a total interest of 2% or 4%, which is still something for the banks.

Of course if you pay them off on time, you don't pay late fees or interest but the banks still have ways of getting their money's worth, through annual fees or merchant sales (every time you pay using a credit card a small percentage goes to the issuing bank/CC company).

The main reason for getting a credit card is a few things: building up credit, the rewards point or the extra liquidity. The extra liquidity is a bit risky, but I've done that before. My credit card has a billing date before my paycheck, which is before the last day to pay before charges apply. So I bought a tablet using that credit card, with full knowledge that I am actually using my next paycheck (and require some austerity for the next month) to pay off that tablet.

No regrets: that tablet became my main note-taking device in university the next semester.

If you don’t have impulse control, grow the fuck up. Its time to quit acting like a kid and think like an adult.

This will get downvoted but so many people need to here it. Take control of your life and your finances.

Sorry for the stupid question, but why get a credit card in the first place? I don't see the good side of being able to spend money you don't own (if it's for dumb things I mean)

A couple reasons:

  1. It builds credit, which is important if you want to buy a home, take out an auto loan, or otherwise get a large loan for something. Some rental companies also insist on credit checks before renting houses.

  2. Credit cards usually come with guarantees, such as fraud guarantees, where you don't pay anything if your card is stolen or someone makes fraudulent purchases on it.

  3. Credit cards come with fancy bells and whistles, like 2% cash back or whatnot, which can actually help you earn "free" money if you use them right. Credit cards make money because enough people don't use them right.

I have a travel Rewards card. A small percentage of my day to day expense goes to points to trade in for flights. I put my gas, groceries, any items like a bar tab that I know I can afford in cash. I also put any work related expenses that I will claim and get reimbursed for. Put that cash on the card and pay it off and soon I take a flight for free. Works out to about 1 flight a year for me. I just got back from China.

Also it is good to know that if push really came to shove... let’s say im stranded somewhere with a broken down car and mechanic that wants an arm and a leg to fix it.. I do have that flexibility. It’s not your first option but a life saver if you need it. I’m a foreign country and your bank card doesn’t work... it’s nice to have a world wide accepted option as a failsafe.

I think most people get credit cards “for emergencies” but the definition of emergency changes and starts to include “splurges” like buying a TV on credit that they can’t afford (awful idea...)

A good way to deal with this is get a secured credit card and don't use any cash.

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If you can't pay credit cards, credit scores should probably be lower on your priority list. If this is a serious question and you want to buy a car or home or otherwise take out a large loan, and don't trust yourself to pay off credit cards, there are some credit card ad loan subreddits that might be helpful.

Edit: Also some redditors have pointed out that secured credit cards might be perfect for this situation.

Secured definitely is the way to go. You front the money so you’re basically lending to yourself. You can set the limit. They gave me the option of $3000. I chose $750. Because I knew that absolute worst case scenario most months I will spend $750 between auto payments, food, and general small living expenses. This means that I can afford $750 a month.

So all I do is use my secured card like I would my debt card. Once I’m nearing the limit I act like I’m running out of money. But I have the money. At least $750 sitting in my bank. So it can always be paid off.

If I had set it at $3000 not only would I have trouble fronting the money, but I’d have trouble paying it off all at once

What if it's too late?? I have 6k in credit card debt, living paycheck to paycheck, and a lot of that money is going into payments/interest (i.e. not moving the needle). I also have irregular employment, so I'm always scared of missing payments.

Do you have kids? If not consider getting a second job for a while and just put all of your second paycheck into the credit card. I'm not going to lie, it will suck major donkey balls. But if my lazy ass can do it, so can you!

EDIT - When I mean a second job (you mentioned irregular employment) I meant like anywhere. McDonald's and shit. And continue to look for regular daytime employment in whatever you're educated in.

No kids! Just pretty bad mental illness (untreated cause I can't afford treatment) and an inability to do physical labor. Just trying to figure it all out. Thanks.

I wish you the best 😊

You have 6k in credit card debit, are living paycheck to paycheck, and have irregular employment. Your first thing should be figuring out how to have regular employment.

Agreed. Let me explain my situation.

I teach at a uni during the year, but don't have work in the "off season" (December-Jan and May-August).

I'm not sure what kind of jobs I can do for only that short time. I've never applied for jobs before, and the process is confusing. I got my position via connections as a student (I knew a guy who knew a guy). I also can't do jobs with any physical labor attached because I have a back injury that prevents me from lifting anything more than 20 lbs.

If you can run, soccer refereeing is a nice way to make a few thousand dollars cash during the summer if you're committed.

Also takes a good knowledge of the rule books of the game tbf

In your introductory course, they walk you through all the laws, and you're required to pass testing every year to keep up with any changes. Even with very little knowledge of soccer you can pick it up fairly quickly.

I've heard temp agencies are good for short term stuff like that.

Check out r/personalfinance or r/debtfree You need a really solid budget asap, and these subs can help get you there.

This is why I don't have a credit card, I have very little impulse control.

Yup I'm 23 and i haven't had a credit card because quite frankly I know 18 year old me would have bought stupid shit. Im finally trying to get one now and it's a pain in the ass with no credit I've been turned down by every shitty card I try.

Try cards that advertise to college students, they are more likely to accept you! Also, check your credit score and make sure there isn't a black mark somewhere that has been following you around.

Edit: And secured credit cards!

Ya I've been looking for a few months now and I think I'm just gonna have to get a card where I give them the money I want for my limit so like 200 bucks. And I have absolutely no credit the only thing I had was medical debt but I just got that resolved. I just want to work on my credit so I can go to a dealership. Sick of 20+ year old cars.

There's nothing inherently wrong with credit cards. There's something wrong with people's financial education. Really, if you don't use a rewards credit card for every purchase you make, you are paying too much for your stuff. PAY IT OFF EVERY MONTH IN FULL!

For many reasons, I don't trust myself to remember to pay off credit card bills on time, so I don't have one. I'll probably never have a good credit card, but that's the price I'll likely have to pay my whole life for not accidentally bankrupting myself because I forgot to pay a bill for 10 bucks for a book or 2 bucks for a box of cereal.

Yup, as someone who has no impulse control, never getting a credit card is my proudest achievement.

If you don’t have impulse control, what’s to stop you impulsively signing up for a credit card?

This is exactly why I only use my debit card. I only use my credit card for netflix and the gym.

Don’t use a debit card precisely because it has direct access to your cash. If someone where to steal it (even the info to purchase online) then your money from bank automatically gets deducted for purchase. You are still liable for 50 bucks of fraud charge if reported immediately, and 500 after certain period of time. You aren’t liable for any fraud charge on credit card...

While this sounds good in theory, the trade off is that you will be left without credit when you need it later. The reality is you need to build credit in your 20s, and there isn't an easy solution other than simply growing up. If you don't have good impulse control you need to move home until you can handle your finances

Who doesn't have a debit card by default? Where are their paychecks being stored? Nobody uses cash anymore.

lol good luck with your credit score then bud

I don’t have impulse control problems. If I did, debt would be a primary concern over my credit score, and if you really need to build credit, apparently secured cards work well for this.

20 years old here, I've never understood that. Like even if you don't have impulse control how can you not understand "I don't have $400, I can't afford this."

I pay my credit card off every month, and really the only time I could see me not doing it would be a really bad situation in the future with no job but with kids and kids gotta eat

I also don't understand it but it sure is a thing. There are plenty of people who don't understand that just because the card will go through doesn't mean they should be spending that money.

It's more like people consider it "free money". Paying off minimum balances are bad. You should be able to pay off the entire balance monthly. Shit happens but it's a slippery slope when you end up only being able to pay the bare minimum.

The irony being that if you use them properly, they effectively are free money.

The irony is that the people who use them improperly subsidize the ones that use them properly and actually get the free money

How is it free money? Isn't it just a loan?

Cashback, bonuses, and improved credit score with responsible use. Basically indirect free money. Not to mention the incredible security that you get with a credit card (banks basically tell you to go suck a dick if your debit card is stolen). After all, no one would use them if the credit card companies didn't give you an incentive for it.

On top of that, the fact that you owe the money for a short while without having to pay interest is additional free money due to inflation, and the interest that that money has the power to accrue.

unboxes latest shipment from Amazon prime

Wha....what's impulse control?

should out to /r/churning

I haven't used a debit card in years, everything goes on my credit card, and so far, I've never paid interest. In fact, the bank has given me >$400 cash back so far.

I don't feel comfortable using my debit card anymore, don't want any possibility of a direct line to my bank.

I agree. As an 18 year old the only reason I have a credit card is because of the benefits systems they have in place (points, cash back, miles, etc) I still only buy things I have the money for and I usually pay off any purchases at the end of each day so that I know how much money I really have in my bank account.

Also I think it's a good idea to have intentionally low credit limits. It might save you from doing something stupid someday, and it always makes you think when you're close to the limit.

I've been using credit cards since age 19, and have a near perfect credit score. I recently opened a credit line and was give 3.45% interest on it. CC are a great tool, and if you have the right one, you can get some sweet perks of using it.

I was fortunate to grow up with very financially literate parents, and had no idea until my own independent young adulthood that some people basically use credit cards like gift cards--spend the amount that's on it as if it's cash, then get stuck paying massive interest. I've never conceptualized my credit as money that I actually own; it's money that I have the ability to borrow.

Yup, if you just setup automatic payments to pay it all off every month and spend within your means it's all benefits. There's a whole hobby to maximizing those benefits, check out /r/churning.

There's nothing wrong with 20% interest rate if you have the means to treat it like a charge card. Always pretend every card you have is a charge card and you can bask in the perks and benefits of any/every credit card. If I have to carry a balance I'm either overspending or should think really hard about the thing I'm buying.

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Utilization has no memory in your credit score. You could max it one month and use 18% the next and it will be just as high as if you had used 18% every month. This doesn’t include building bad habits though...

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To elaborate a bit:

If you pay it off before your statement is generated, the credit agencies will never know. Only monthly statement balances get reported to them.

So be aware of when your month closes and your statement is generated. Make sure to pay off the majority of it before that point. Different people in banking have told me different figures ranging from 15% - 33% being the optimal credit usage. But unanimously everyone always told me that 0% is worse than 15%.

This is a delicate game to play but it really helps if you can funnel a bunch of bills and other expenses through a credit card that gives 2-3% cash back, without paying too much interest.

Who makes enough in a month to pay off a maxed-out credit card??? Can't pay it, don't buy it, you won't max out.

That's not how utilization works. It has no memory or history. So if you're not looking for a loan right now, no reason to care about utilization.

I call it the, I didn't have a choice and my dental insurance only covered the first 2k of my 8.5k procedure, tax.

Fuck this country man.

This is true. My husband and I have been using a credit card "as a debit card" for almost two years now. Pay it off every week, never look at your bank balance without subtracting your card balance. Literally have never carried a balance on that card.

It's not that hard, and it doesn't require some insane level of impulse control. I just never ever let myself look at the credit limit as money we could spend. Mentally it's in the same category as going to a payday loan shop. Our credit limit is the bank balance.

I thought the stupid tax was buying lottery tickets?

That and people who buy lottery tickets. It is literally a tax on stupid people who don't know how math works. If you want to waste a couple bucks a year, feel free, but go in knowing you're never going to win and don't buy a bunch of extra tickets when the Powerball is over $100 million because it will "increase your chances of winning."

You kind of alluded to it, but lots of lottery tickets are just normal people paying for entertainment. Same with casino gambling. If you have some disposable income and self control then do some gambling and have fun. Just absolutely do not play with any expectation of winning.

The way I realized or fix this for myself was when I got into investing. I realized you want 10% a year. That would be great on average over your lifetime. Obviously some years you get more some years you get less depending on the market but for most long-term retirement calculators you use 10% interest because that's really what the market has done in the past and what you would hope it will continue to do.

So if you're fighting so hard for 10% every year, why would you pay 20% more for something? You're shooting yourself in the foot. It's not really a direct comparison but it helped me at least

I actually got rid of my credit cards. I had them for the free stuff and always paid them off but STILL realized I spent more on a CC than I do with cash. So now I stick to cash. I KNOW that there are downsides to cash but it helps keep my spending in check so I use it.

Yep. I pay my full balance off every month so I get rewards and good credit

lol you should see the APR on some of the loans they hand out to people with abysmal credit scores. I've seen 500%+

Emergencies and smaller monthly bills (Netflix, sling, and Apple music for me) is mostly what I use mine for

I missed one payment and it was 30 bucks and I was mad as fuck. However it made me remind my self to put a weekly alarm to check my card because I use it for gas and a few other things unless they don't take cards

Monthly? Try several times a week. I watch my balance like a hawk to make sure I don't get fraudulent transactions.

Whenever my bank tries to pitch something that involves a deal on credit card interest rates I have to loudly shut them down. And from their replies I must be the only one in town with that kind of discipline...

Does your dad listen to Dave Ramsey?

I live in a country where "good" bank loans are ~ 20% and "normal" is about 25%

It's the primary reason I've never taken a loan

The interest rates on a credit card is one of the main reasons on why I have never used one.

Yes, I do understand that if you somehow get a fraudulent charge on your credit card, it's easier to handle (compared to a debit card where your card is frozen and you have to wait a week for a new card), but what other reason is there to have a credit card? What are the benefits of a credit card over a debit card?

I was quite happy always paying off my credit card every month till I lost my job and still had a six month old to feed. Took me fourteen months to clear the credit cards back to paying off monthly. Its not just a stupid tax it can also be a desperation tax

It's more of poor tax

Wait what happens when you don't pay your monthly credit card bill?

Oh man, when my best friend got his first credit card he immediately said to me "I could buy a car with this!" Yeah, at 20% interest instead of 5%.

Its why I dont have one

People that pay 20% interest on their cards get me points and cash back on my card for free 😁

Yep

I currently need all of my savings right now to break a lease. The credit card is why I'm not going to the food bank.

Sure the interest will suck but the ability to still be able to buy food is nice and it will be paid off by the end of may/mid June.

My dad calls the interest charged on credit card purchases a "stupid tax".

Oh I get it. Because people who have poor impulse control are stupid. When you think about it credit card companies are really doing society a service. They definitely do not charge interest on credit card purchases because they are guaranteed to make billions and billions of dollars off of the millions of vulnerable people.

Yeah, isn't the rule if you can't pay for it in cash don't buy it? Or am I wrong? Lol

I think this rule applies to everything except houses.

I agree with this 100%. For the vast majority of regular folks (not counting business owners etc) within their personal accounts the only thing you should finance is a house. Cars, furniture, house projects (don't get a HELOC please) can all be purchased with some planning. Houses are too big of a nut off the bat but even that you can pay off. Think of your monthly expenses without financing!

If the interest rate of investing the money is more than the interest rate of the loan, you're actually losing money by paying in cash.

 

It's true that a lot of people misuse credit, but that doesn't make credit inherently bad.

Yeah, but you're still saying that you have the money.

Which is what the OP said, but the person I replied to said you should just never finance anything except a house, and I was disagreeing with that.

I agree. People who have the “cash only!!!” mentality have a fundamental misunderstanding of the power of borrowing money when utilized properly. I absolutely will fund a home reno with my HELOC, for example, because I can get it done sooner, it raises the value of my home, and, at 4.5%, it really doesn’t cost much to borrow if you pay it down/off regularly.

Finance 101: Time Value of Money. Money in your account today is worth more than money in your account in the future. I would rather keep my money tied up in investments, gaining interest over months or years, and periodically pull the money out to pay off credit than just take out all my money at once.

Plus (in the US) you can write off the interest on HELOCs for the improvement of your primary residence for the tax year.

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As I mentioned to the other commenter, making sure you can was OP's point, but the person I replied to said you should never use credit for anything except a house, and it was that I disagreed with.

Thats why its so important to build up good credit when you are young and the stakes are low so by the time you need a car or house loan you can get some pretty damn good rates and save a ton of money

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I don't know about that. I don't make that much money and even I know taking free financing and keeping my money in high-yield savings is a better deal. I might only come out $20 ahead or something, but It's not a complicated concept.

Rich enough to invest does not mean rich enough to have an accountant. Everyone should be investing if it is financially viable.

If you have the money to make a decision based off that concept, you should have an accountant making that decision for you.

You don't have to be super clever with investments to come out ahead, just a simple S&P 500 index should easily beat out the interest rates on a car loan as long as you have a good credit score.

Cars could be a problem. I doubt most can save up 20k+ to fully purchase a car outright that will have a nice warranty, no maintenance issues, will last a long time, etc. I just financed my third car ever, and at 26k all said and done, I have a 1 year old Ford with a 100k dealer backed certified pre-owned warranty on a full powertrain and bumper to bumper. Last car I bought I purchased for 12k cash, it was 6 years old, and within 2 years it had cost me over 6k in maintenance and unassuming work.

With such low car insurance, it makes more sense to get the loan in some cases.

I mean, that sucks, but you just got unlucky (or didn't do enough shopping). There are literally thousands of cars out there in the $8k-$15k range out there that are essentially new cars, coming off of one owner on a lease. Depending on what you want and specific circumstances, if you're in your 20s (like the post asked) you should never spend $20 on a car period. Bite the bullet, save up $10k, do your research, be willing to say no to a slimy dealer, get the mid/low trim, get a color that you don't love and drive a reliable car for 5 years and put the $300 you would have spent on the payment and put it in your 401k (or pay off debt). When you're income rises and you CAN buy a $20k car go buy that in cash.

Maybe you just bought a bad car? I spent $2000 on an 03 Taurus and paid about the same in maintenance over two years. A decent car doesn't need to be a $20k expense, hell it doesn't need to be a $5k expense if you shop around.

I mean you just got unlucky. Most like 8 to 10k cars if you get them inspected and they're reliable brands can easily last 100k miles. Also even with your math you spent less on that used car than the new one.

What is a HELOC?

Home equity line of credit... And I'm going to disagree. I have one and have used it for a vehicle, the interest rate is much lower than the car loans they will offer you (currently). If you are smart with it, it's a tool.

Thx for the reply, and I think the guy above me was saying you should save and pay up front for those things.

That is what I'm saying yes, in almost all instances paying cash and avoiding any new monthly payments benefits you. Financing exists for a reason, to make bankers rich, it's not because they like you. They know that for everyone who can use financing at low interest and quick payoffs as a tool, there are 10 ignorant folks out there who will end up paying more in interest than what something is worth (upside down).

And the interest is a tax write-off if its improvement for your primary home or residence. So its essentially interest-free credit if you do your taxes correctly!

Yes that's fair, I would say however that for those in their 20's, a HELOC is usually a recipe for disaster as it is essentially a credit card. Avoiding those types of costs and interests (and closing) puts in a position to learn to be responsible first without getting run over before you know what you're doing:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2016/04/13/cautionary-advice-on-getting-a-home-equity-line/#29fe470d66c6

True, I guess if you have other assets to cover the loan if you had to, but I would agree that in my 20s it might have been a problem. I feel that way about my student debt. I didn't quite get what I was singing up for at age 18....

Financing a car or home repair or remodel is completely reasonable..

That's not true. If you have good credit and can get loans at a low interest rate, it definitely makes sense to use credit; if you've saved up enough money to buy a car, but you can get a car loan at a very low interest rate that you have no problem paying the interest on, that money is much better off on the stock market. Variants on this is how rich people make their money - having a high approved credit is in many ways wealth in itself, and this is why "cash only" people never get rich.

What you absolutely must not do is use your savings for frivolous expenses like a slightly bigger TV, or just consumption; save and invest your money, borrow for the big stuff; in the long term you will almost always be better off. And, never buy anything on credit that you can't pay off immediately, because of course those are NOT low interest.

I agree with you to some degree (neither of us are "right" or our advice "true" because these are opinions/strategies that are applied uniquely to every situation). However considering this is a post aimed at those in their 20's who would conceivably be just starting to take on responsibility I would still recommend avoiding financing at all costs.

Because most who are just starting out have low incomes, any increase in monthly expenses eats into the ability to pay for actual costs (place to live/food/clothes/transport to work). This leads to loans and financing which further eats into income. Your income is the single most powerful tool in success. Eventually investment income plays a part in that equasion yes. But financing is almost always done on horrible interest rates, is done in a predatory fashion, includes late payment fees and spirales out of control far more often than it is used as an assett.

Your point about frivolous expenses is exactly what finances DOES. It is a point of sale/impulse justification for stupid financial decisions that will eventually drown you. And your right, it is better off in the market/invested that's why you shouldn't use it on interest!

That's fair; well argued.

Thanks for the conversation!

The business owners finance their houses too. They're just bigger houses.

I meant it in the sense that business owners can usually justifiably take on debt for business capital, not their personal spending. I don't think they should finance either!

Leverage is an incredibly useful financial tool that wealthy and less wealthy people can and should take advantage of, the issue is that most people don't understand how to properly utilize leverage, what to use it on, and how much to use.

Funny you exclude business owners, most business owners I know take home less than most of their employees a month. This only doesn't apply to already successful businessmen.

I meant it as business capital loans should be acceptable/expected. Owners/partners shouldn't finance within their personal accounts either.

Wait so I'm supposed to be able to pay for a car outright before I buy it?

Cars are an important exception, assuming you need a car to work. If you can't afford a car that can get you to/from work reliably, then borrowing enough to buy the minimal car that meets this requirement is good. A used compact car is the right level.

Borrowing is basically giving the bank your future-self's money in order to have something today. Since you get more money by showing up to work than not showing up (duh!) borrowing to get a car that will help you get to work and get paid makes sense, as your future self ends up with more money.

Taking out a loan to get a BMW when a Honda Fit can get you to work just as well is saying "30 year old me, I think the bank needs your hard-earned money more than you, so I'm going to pay them your money instead of saving up for this car." I suppose if you think you're going to be an asshole in 10 years, then buy everything on credit, and stick it to your future self!

This. Untill recently I was in the "only buy cars with cash" camp. After exclusively driving high-milage clunkers, I took out a modest loan to buy a factory-certified pre-owned base-model economy car.

10/10 would do again. It's nothing fancy, but way nicer and more reliable than what I'm used to. Personally a car payment is absolutely worth it for the peace of mind.

Modest is the key word there. For a car, don’t make yourself poor. If you bring home $2500/mo. Don’t get a $400/mo car payment.

I would say that rule is bs. Buying a more expensive car if you have a steady income is fine. Out of school I had a good job lined up, less than 2k in the bank, and no car. If you can afford a 300-400 dollar payment then there's no reason you should avoid buying a car you can't outright purchase.

Sometimes you just have to ignore the reddit hive mind regarding personal finance.

Reddit on personal finance: eat ramen and steal your neighbors wifi for 45 years

I think that's a little closer to r/Frugal or at least r/PFJerk

I couldn't buy my car outright but I was able to put down a sizeable down payment and get my payment under 200 bucks. Thankfully also I qualified for a low interest rate because of my paying off credit balances each month. Edit: all that said to say that I am sure that some people buy cars they can outright buy that are nice but mine would've been a lot older and less reliable if I only bought what I could own outright

How long did you have your card before qualifying for low interest? I've had mine for 2 years almost, I've not missed a payment. My credit is 722, if that's relevant

3-400? That's serious cash. I'm at $250 now as a 36yo and I think I'm paying way too much.

For a first car in your early twenties with almost no credit history? Less than 250 is a pipe dream.

Maybe for new cars it's a pipedream. I'm 24 and paying $200/mo. Aside from some smallish student loans to create a credit history before purchasing the car, I had only had a credit card for a few months before the purchase. Got a super solid used CRV at 66k miles for a good deal.

And I thank God everyday that my dad signed for my first car (he insisted I got a new one). $237 payments, no money down, 0% interest. I cosigned to get my credit building.

He also had two discounts from his side (GM loyalty and GM credit card) plus our GM employee discount from my mom's dad. The car dealership employees asked if my parents were adopting.

Might be worth shopping around? I had basically no credit out of college and my first car was about $260/mo on a 5 year loan.

I guess it's relevant that I'm in CA with higher salaries. I wasn't willing to completely change the caliber of car I wanted just to save 100 bucks a month, which is fairly insignificant to me for something as important as a car.

That's what I'm about to do. I'm putting 3k down on a 22k car, but will be making enough to easily cover that. Buying a 3k car would be stupid for me

This is how I approach cars, because I hate the idea of paying interest, or paying for more insurance than I want (if you're making a payment, you need to have full coverage).

So I just save and buy cars cash. It's the only reasonable approach as far as I can see. A 30k mile car is practically new anyway.

Yeah but a car with 30k miles is a lot more than most people in their 20s can just pay out of pocket, especially if you need a car right out of college in order to commute to a job.

A midrange compact car with that mileage can be found from 4-10k which can definitely be saved in a year or so, even with a mediocre salary. For example I saved a bit over 8 in my first year at a 40k/year position, which is a fine salary, but it's not what most folks would consider "wealth".

Credit is best used for something you can't afford, but will help you be more productive and increase future earning potential. Like a farmer buying more land or a new tractor. Or a young adult attending University on student loans (arguable now with the ridiculous cost).

The other commonly accepted use of credit is for a first time home purchase, and this is an asset that generally will appreciate in value over time.

If buying a car will help you get or maintain a job or get a better job, it's absolutely worth buying with credit. If not, it is possible to buy a car with cash.

Anything else, you're borrowing money from your future self to live about your means now. This of course means sometime in the future, you will have to live beneath your means and by a greater magnitude than before, due to interest being tacked on. It's almost always not worth it.

Personally I think your first car can be financed, but cars after that should be bought outright. There’s no reason not to save up for one.

You can get weird with financing if you can get 0% interest or if you’re careful, at a lower interest rate than you’re making on your investments.

I think car financing is okay. You can get 2.6-3% on a car, and the interest paid for it can definitely be worthwhile if you have piece of mind that you won't get stranded and not be able to make it to work.

Obviously better to pay cash, but going through a stolen car a couple months ago, I was looking at a lot of beaters for cheap and ended up buying a new car financed instead since I know I won't need to dump any money into it for the next 5 or so years when it will be fully paid off.

I think an extenuating circumstance like a stolen car and suddenly buying a new one could pretty obviously justify financing. But if you buy a car and then 10 years later you buy another car, there isn’t any reason not to save up (except again, emergent extenuating circumstances).

Cars are pretty normal things to finance as long as it's on reasonable terms and within your means.

And school.

Cars too sometimes. You want to go to cheaper, but when you need a car to commute paying off a loan can be worth getting a car that won't need constant repairs. Leasing is perhaps a better option.

And education if you don't go crazy with it. If you're broke and borrow $40k in student loans and end up with a bachelor's, you're gonna come up far ahead than if you stayed in the workforce without one.

If you spend $80k on a bachelor's..... You better be very good at whatever you end up doing, and be lucky.

To some extent cars as well, at least while you're young.

Or cars. Even decent used cars cost $15-20k these days

sometimes the exception applies to an education too, depends on your situation and goals

No it doesn’t. Don’t buy anything you don’t have the ability to pay back. Simple as that. Credit is a good thing, it got me sub 4 percent on my mortgage.

I don't think he literally means cold hard cash all the time. I think he means you should be able to out right buy anything "except a house" when you buy it. So if you're about to go buy a new tv you can put it on your credit card, but be able to pay it off immediately without going into debt.

That way you're still building credit (which is incredibly valuable, as you stated) but not paying interest fees.

Not to mention earning those sweet reward points.

I think you mean pay back right away? Because if you can pay it back in 10 years and pay an additional $50k in interest that’s a terrible idea.

Depends. If you get a really good interest rate, it might be worth getting a loan to maintain liquidity or even make a short term investment like a CD, particularly if the financial situation is one in which you might expect rates to rise over the lifetime of the loan.

This is probably beyond the scope of what op was asking for in this thread.

Why are houses the exception to the rule?

I mean, if you could save up enough to buy a house with cash, that’s amazing! But most can’t, and a lot can’t afford a house without borrowing. It’s just such a big purchase.

The interest rate is normally really low, often lower than the rate at which the value of the house increases.

And maybe also a car? Within reason

And educations.

My list is house, car, education, and healthcare. Although my husband and I are both currently in school, paying cash every semester.

I selected the house I bought based on whether or not I could afford the mortgage payments if I became unemployed.

I might not be able to pay for the house itself in cash. But I can handle one hell of a setback without ending up on the street immediately.

I think this rule applies to everything except houses.

Houses and cars. But if you're buying a car on credit, it better be a short term loan, and it better be an econobox. Don't finance a goddamn jaguar.

It does still apply for houses when it comes to renting vs buying. In some situations, it is better to rent. Most cases it is better to buy. It requires you to plan ahead and take a look at the cost/benefit analysis of one or the other.

For 95% of the population this is a good rule.

Sure, only finance if you know what you're doing or COULD pay it off but it's some 0% APR thing and you're just stretching it out.

Amazon has a nice 6 months financing for things over $450 which is dangerous but can be useful for bigger purchases

There are cases where using credit can be good, but having the self-control not to overspend is the problem. I use a couple cards that I got on 0% intro APR deals. They give cash back/rewards, so I use them. I make extra payments on them all the time but don't necessarily keep them 100% paid off. I also have marked down the dates when the promotional APR ends to make sure they're all paid off by then.

Honestly if you trust yourself and know your budget there is no harm here. I got a 5k card, maxed it out within 2 months with shit I've been wanting/needing for awhile. Have 4 months still to pay off just around 2k which is easy for me right now. Increased my credit limit, no late payments, and will have a 0 balance when offer ends and a decent boost to my credit over 9 months.

Yeah my family's financial advisor suggested that I get a retail store's credit card at 18 and spend maybe $30 per month and pay it off every month to build up credit for the future.

But you need to build credit. Get a cc with like a $300 limit, and keep it around 10%. Put a recurring bill on it and pay it off every month before it is due.
Use credit karma!
I've rebuilt my credit from 530 to 745 in the past 3 years using credit karma.
Having good credit means the difference of buying your first car with 22% interest or 3% interest.
Get that shit in now. Don't wait.

You don't need to keep it at 10%. The final statement at the end of the month is what matters. Source: living in a foreign country and no one takes my fucking Amex and I'm constantly paying off my shitty student Visa, which recently got bumped from $300 to $400 to $750, which I can only assume is because I've been pumping money through it and paying it off completely for several months. My credit is great.

Right you just don't ever want the statement to report over 30%. Keeping it 10% or under is optimal for credit building.

Yes.

However, credit cards can be very useful if you budget them correctly. They can fill the gap between paydays. If you know you earn more than you spend, but right now you a ruining a little short on cash or maybe there is a sale on something ending just before payday, that credit card can allow you access to the money sooner. Many now come with reward points so there is an incentive to put every transaction through the card and pay it off immediately. But it requires the ability to control your spending to make sure you can pay it off before it accrues interest

I’m a big supporter of credit cards for the points. And as you say, for the occasional time you need something now or have an unexpected expense.

I put everything on credit cards for the points/miles BUT I pay the cards off every month so I don’t pay a financing fee. On rare occasion I’ll carry a balance if I come into a big expense (like moving into an unfurnished flat and paying a huge deposit and having to buy furniture. Then the $50 financing fee is well worth it to get a bed and sofa and TV). But don’t make it a habit! If you’re carrying a balance for more than three months you’re doing it wrong.

It's a good rule of thumb, but if you're responsible with your money and have good credit, the interest won't kill you if you buy big ticket items (furniture, computer, car, house, etc.) on credit.

The trick is to pay off the debt as quickly as possible. Don't just make the minimum payments - dedicate as much of each paycheck to the credit card bill as you can afford until the debt is gone.

Then in that case, unless you spend your entire life saving, you will never be able to own a car or house

It's a good general rule. The other often-overlooked but responsible use for credit, in my book at least, is purchasing non-optional necessities of life. But you have to be firm about it, and not waver. You can't just decide that a new gaming console is suddenly a "necessity". Things you literally need to live.

For example, when I started working, my parents suggested I get a credit card. Use it for purchases around town and pay it off in full every month to build some history - so, use as you describe. But then, when I ran over a tack strip that fell off of someone's pickup truck and blew out three tires at 3AM one weekend, I had the card. I was buried under student loans, I had just started my career, and my workplace was miles from any public transit. I didn't have $700 to my name to replace all the tires, but the credit card let me pay for it a little at a time.

Did it cost me more in the long run? Of course!But it gave me an option where before, I'd have had none.

I think it may be a fine line on that one. If you can pay for it in cash yes pay for it in cash, but also as long as you don't let interest build up on a credit card with a decent interest rate you should be fine. Make payments on a non store bound credit card that provides actual benefits. The problem comes from people who max them out when they can't afford to make payments and let interest and debt rack up over time.

Yup. Personally I think everyone should stick to a debit card(dunno if that even exists in the US) until they're in their 30's just so they learn that "hey, this is how much money I have each month. Guess I have to ration it".

That and when your card gets declined in a store it's much worse with a debit then a credit, because with the debit card you know your account is empty....

They do exist in the US and they're fucking dangerous because your bank will basically tell you to go suck a dick if it gets stolen.

Pretty much, basically you have to make sure that you can pay off your cards every month. Never spend more than you can make/use savings for

Yup. That's how my parents taught me how to use my credit card. I got my first credit card when I was pretty young, but I was taught to use it basically like a debit card with a higher limit on it. Anything close to or over $100 went on my credit card, but I was to pay it off in full every month, which basically meant buying something only if I had that dollar amount in my bank account already.

Super, super, super good advice.

You could be taking advantage of an opening credit card offer where you could get X amount of reward points/cash back etc. for spending your first Y dollars. If you already have the cash and plan ahead to make a big a large purchase, better to get those free rewards and then immediately pay off the credit card.

Anything that does not bring you monetary value should be bought with cash (or paid off like it is). So houses (and to some extent, cars for practical use) fall under this. TVs and clothes do not.

I’ve heard if you can’t afford to buy two, you can’t afford to put it on your credit card. This is what I use.

It’s super strict, but I like it!

That is a good rule of thumb, but not universal.

I have recently taken out a car loan for a sensible used car, because my elderly grandparents were selling their car, and it had 110k fewer miles than my previous car.

While I could have paid my grandparents the full amount in cash, I chose to borrow that money from my credit union. That allowed me to leave some money in my account for other expenses without having to worry about going into debt if I could not sell my old car quickly enough.

This works for me because I have a very good credit score and driving record, and I was able to get a loan rate at 2.49% over 36 months. I will be able to pay it back much earlier than that with no penalty.

I would not recommend what I did for everyone. For me it made more sense than continuing to put money into a car with high mileage and electrical problems, but it may not make sense for everyone.

Old man always told me the same thing when it came to nice things I was saving up my money to buy. "If you can't afford to buy it 2x, don't buy it". He emphasized saving a great deal and it really does make the things you buy worth it.

Or at least by the end of the month, being able to pay it off

Credit is best used for something you can't afford, but will help you be more productive and increase future earning potential. Like a farmer buying more land or a new tractor. Or a young adult attending University on student loans (arguable now with the ridiculous cost).

The other commonly accepted use of credit is for a first time home purchase, and this is an asset that generally will appreciate in value over time.

Anything else, you're borrowing money from your future self to live about your means now. This of course means sometime in the future, you will have to live beneath your means and by a greater magnitude than before, due to interest being tacked on. It's almost always not worth it.

Responsible people can easily rack up a current amount of debt higher than their current amount of liquid money (although whether they should is another topic). Especially if the debt comes before the income, like a necessary amount of spending right before a payday. What matters is stable income and safety net.

Also, good luck buying anything of significant value under that mantra, unless you plan on using lottery jackpot money to buy a house or car.

I used to think this, but there is another option; leveraging debt.

Instead of dropping 10k in a new car, take that 10k, throw it in an investment account, make more in interest than the loan has and just pay the monthly installments.

Note; can only be used if you have a crapton of cash laying around or can get an interest rate below 7%.

In general, yes. But don't take that to mean "pay for everything in cash". Your money should work for you. Car loans, for example, are ok so long as your savings is making more in interest than the loan is costing (and you're never underwater on it). You can game the system but the only safe way to do it is to have enough reserves to cover your liabilities.

I'd say it's 90%. I was in a situation once. I had no money at all. My computer was broken and my workplace couldn't afford me a working computer. I ended up taking a credit to pay for a computer, then pay back the credit with the credit card and then pay the credit card minimum monthly with the money I would earn from work and the rest of money to pay for food/university/transport. Then in 6 month I cleared the credit and the credit card.

So I'd say it's not about being able to pay cash right now but being able to pay it at the rate you have to pay it. But the ability to pay it at the rate that you have to pay it is risky. But yeah, the rule of thumb should be to pay if you have the money. Otherwise you're entering the risky area and it's not funny.

It applies to people who are poor at managing their money. If you have the discipline and foresight, you can easily buy (for example) a good car on finance, budget the finance, insurance payments and running costs against your disposable income and you'll be fine. All the while you're building your credit file and putting yourself in a stronger position when it comers to mortgaging a house or starting a business, amongst other things.

For all things except houses, college, and possibly cars. If you're getting a cat loan, get a reliable car that isn't fancy, and get a loan from a bank, not a dealer.

My parents have something like half a dozen credit cards (Amex from as soon as their income would allow it) but as early as their kids could understand, they explained that you treat credit cards like debit cards: never buy more on credit than you have money in your checking account for, and pay off the credit card in full every month. Then you get all the perks of having a credit card, and none of the interest.

I was unemployed for 4 months when I was 19 or 20, could not find a job to save my life but I had a credit card that I pretty much only used for gas up to that point. Yes you can apply for assistance but that takes a while to process and that's only if you're accepted. Had to use my credit card to pay my plates and phone while I looked for a job. Got a job that lasted 3 months before my hours were cut to maybe once a week and couldn't make my credit card payments. Now I have a bunch of credit card debt and ruined credit. The plus side is I'm only 24 and I don't have much use for credit anyway so by the time I start my career and can afford to buy a house or car my debt will be paid off and my credit will be rebuilt.

Add on to this: Build good credit.

I'm 28 with no credit because my family raised me to fear credit cards or any kind of debt. Well guess who is the issue on finding a place to rent? The guy with no credit. Doesn't matter the high paying job or all the savings you have, FICO score seems to be king for a lot of people.

Get a credit card, but understand what the hell it actually does.

Opening them is fine, using them wisely is the challenge.

Opening a bunch of cards is fine if you make sure they don't have a bunch of yearly fees attached to them.

Read that fine print.

My favorite thing is the CreditOne credit cards. Their name and logo is made to trick people into thinking they're related to CapitalOne. I thought the close similarity was sketch, so I googled it, and the amount of people whining about how it wasn't their fault they signed up for a shitty credit card without looking into it at all was amusing.

Super important. When I turned 18 I started opening credit cards to start building up my credit. My parents would give me shit everyday about it thinking I would fuck up but I told my self I would never buy anything perishable with a credit card. Has really helped me out 2 years later.

I was the opposite. Parents told me to get a credit card but only use it for things you can pay. Nope I used all of it. First year out of hs I was working to pay things off. Luckily it wasn't a lot and I learned my lesson. Credit is back to normal

I have this friend I met in college, her parents literally opened up credit cards account under her name without her telling her and one time we checked all our credit scores to shit on each other and her credit score was 760 and had like $200 in credit used. She went home to tell her parents and they broke it to her, they built her her credit for her lol

That's pretty sweet. I wish mine was that good. That was pretty smart on her parents part

No one should be opening credit cards at retail stores. They're terrible.

Related: not fully understanding the importance of credit scores and credit history. I screwed myself over in that department, and now my boyfriend and I are trying to buy a house. If my credit was good, we could afford around $300k easily (In CT), but my credit history is so bad that we'll have to do it only in his name, which drops our budget to about $180k. Shit makes a big difference, guys.

I'd second this with taking a course in finance, be it a financial responsibility course or a course at a local community college. just learning about how it works can save people from signing up for stupid loans, and help them think about how they spend their money.

I've been brought up differently. I was told to get a credit card, and only put things on it that I can definitely afford at the end of the month. Small things, but not insignificant things. A washing machine, a new vacuum cleaner etc. A few hundred £ occasionally. Put in on the credit card, then pay it off at the end of the month. It helps build your credit score as you can be trusted with money, and pay it all back in one hit.

My sister bought a Jeep with a $800 monthly payment because she has bad credit, doesn't make that much, doesn't have anything saved up, but just had to have that fancy new car... They were happy to give it to her.. apparently research shows all these dumbass kids these days only care about their monthly minimum. Fuck having a monthly car payment if you can help it.

But at the same time, I never opened up a credit card account because everyone told me how bad it was. When it came time that I really needed to finance something in my early twenties, I couldn’t because I didn’t have any credit built up. I definitely agree with not maxing them out but staying away from credit cards completely can end up just as harmful in the long run.

Amen. Just because you got a credit card offer in the mail saying you are pre-approved for a $10,000 credit limit DOES NOT MEAN YOU NOW HAVE $10,000.

Y

OK, I have money but I got a credit card this year. Maxed it out, and pay $500 to it a month. I just spend on my credit card instead of buying everything on my debit card. Is this a horrible idea? y/n?

If you're not paying your balance in full every month, you're not using it right.

so I basically should just stick to paying for shit with debit ?

No, you need to use a credit card to build credit, but you need to exercise enough self-control so that you can afford to pay the credit card off in full every month, so as to not accrue interest.

In short, use your credit card, but don't buy anything you wouldn't use your debit for.

Basic personal finance should be a required course for high school students. Not enough emphasis is put on this - I took a year-long elective and we spent a single class on balancing a checkbook, no mention of credit cards. Start it early instead of trying to figure it out in your 20s.

This was my biggest mistake. In my early 20s I was living a lifestyle i simply couldn't afford. I worked full time making decent cash but always going out with my gf, seeing movies, going to bars, events etc and things added up quick. I constantly took cash advances and ended up just over 20,000 in debt (Canadian dollars). When I turned 24 I moved up north and have been working in the Oil field as an electrician for the past 5 years now and I paid off the consolidation loan after 2 years. My biggest regret was not getting into the trades earlier. My father was in business and I tried to pursue university but it just wasn't for me.

Ye whats up with credit cards? Why even use them? Its money you don't have. You seem to like it more in the states then we do here in Sweden. Im 26 and have never even seen one, if you don't count gascards.

In the USA at least, you can open credit cards just to improve your credit score. By opening credit cards and using them on things you were going to buy anyway, you can just pay them off in full after their statements get posted. This raises your score by having on-time payments, and having a higher credit score shows lenders that you're reliable. This grants you the ability to get lower interest rates when you go to finance large ticket items, like vehicles or houses.

Wtf? That sounds like such a restrictive system. So you have to get these cards so you can get loans and stuff in the future? I swear sometimes the US sounds so backwards.

Pretty much! You can still get loans in the future if you don't build credit, but the interest rates you'd pay would be absurdly high. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like basic finances are really a thing they teach in our high schools... at least mine didn't.

So you are basically forced to use it, but I guess you get some benefits also. Can't be easy for the younger crowd to have "unlimited" money. Thanks for the info :)

I have a hatred of credit cards.

They're tools sure,

But they're power tools that you NEED training to use. Just think about an 18 year old, who has never seen a lathe at all, to go use this high speed steel milling lathe to make something.

No, they'll fucking ruin everyrhing including themselves.

threw all my credit cards away paid them off, been very happy the last 10 years

My parents are/were amazing with money. House is paid off, both newer vehicles were bought without loans. Dad unfortunately passed away before seeing a single day of retirement to reap the benefits of a life spent planning for it, but mom will never have to worry once she retires.

I was a stupid college student who had about $5000 in credit card debt at clothing stores (Victoria’s Secret, American Eagle, Express cards). HOW DUMB IS THAT YOU GUYS? Really dumb. Don’t do it. That 20% interest and only paying the minimum balances will wreck you.

My parents luckily bailed me out and I paid them back interest free. Now I only have one card that is set up to pay bills and for bigger purchases or vet visits and be paid in full each month just for the cash back.

Absolutely this. I think people in their early 20's rack up a lot of credit card debt, believing that they'll just get a good job right out of college and pay it all of in one whack. That was my - very mistaken - thinking about debt. It took me many years to pay off dumb credit card purchases of bar tabs from when I was an undergrad. Keep out of as much debt as possible, kids.

I always found it funny... I used to get so many credit card applications when I was unemployed/working shit jobs and had student debt.

Got a real job, got out of debt, aaaand... poof.

Oh well. No more 25% APR card applications for me anymore, oh deearedere.

I'm turning 27 in a month and just opened my first CC. I've been avoiding having one like the plague.

I have a $3k limit of which I will probably use 500 of.

Also, the reverse of this. I got fucked on my car loan (7% from the only credit union that would actually take me) because I had no credit history.

Get a prepaid card, use it, graduate to a real one, use it, and pay it off monthly. It'll pay dividends when you go to make a major purchase (car / house / anything that requires a loan). Just dont be dumb with it.

Conversely don't avoid credit all together. I am stuck in an apartment at the moment due to a lack of credit history that I only started working on.

Heck my dad saw what I was going through and instead of paying cash like he always has he decided to get a loan for his new truck. 49 years old and he only got the loan from his bank because he showed that he had more money in his account than what the loan was for.

Even major retail store cards aren't a good indication now, they don't even want people with good credit because they won't make money on fees.

So truth be told, I'm in that situation, but mostly due to a string of really bad years. Not making an excuse, but life happens, people get hurt, and the medical corporate machine in America gains a bunch of my money. Anywho, would it be smart to get a debt consolidation loan? At say, 5%? I'm not putting anything on my cards now, as things have stabilized now, but the interest rate is ungodly. I need an out from this insane interest.

My goal is to never have a credit card. The most crushing debt people have are university loans and credit card debt. I’ve managed to pay of almost all of my education through being a resident assistant and furiously applying to all kinds of scholarships.

You really should unless you don't think you'll be able to avoid falling into debt. I get about $300 a year from my cash back cards on things I'd be buying anyway. Last year I got 50k bonus miles on Southwest and this year I got 55k on American for hitting spending requirements, again only buying things I'd be buying anyway, and now I have several round trip flights in the bank. And banks won't lend if you don't have a credit history. When I applied for car loans a few years ago, they were turning me down because of a limited history until I called and explained how much I was putting down, and that was with a 6 year history of making credit card payments on time every time. When I go to buy a house I wouldn't be surprised if I have to do the same dance.

Seeing all these posts about money really makes me appreciate the time and effort my parents put into making sure my brothers and I were financially ready. I’ve had a credit card for 5 years now and have never gone into debt, and hearing some of the interest my friends are paying horrifies me.

I dont always buy this. I guess I just dont understand how it isnt common sense.

Between my 2 cards I have a $8600 limit (they are both fairly new cards) and I have used $1500 of that cause I’ve made my dumb decision and it bothers me having that much in debt. I’m just focused on paying them off now, which really wont take me too long I just need to stop buying stuff. Getting a decent paying job in your lower 20s is a blessing and a sin if you like nice things.

My parents were very anti credit cards.I remember finding an old wallet of my dads with some expired credit cards and started playing with it because of the pretty holographic on the back. Mom saw it. Freaked out, said credit card were the devil, and cut them up right there. All though college I was cash only. Imagine my surprise when I go to buy a car...no freaking credit. At least it did teach me to live within my means, but it was tough to build up my credit score.

Man I don’t know how people do it. I get anxious just seeing that I have $100 owed on my credit card. I can’t imagine thousands, I would freak out.

Agreed. I was 19 when I started maxing out cards and screwed my credit along with hospital bills I couldn’t pay with my $9/hour job. I’m 24 now and my credit score is still in the 500s so I have to live off cash only in my bank account which has taught me how important impulse control is and being savvy money wise. Impulse control was so hard to learn too, as a drug addict. Took me 3 years of using heroin and finally getting clean to learn how to control most impulses.

Why do people use credit cards?

I don't understand why people treat credit cards as free money basically. When I signed up for a credit card (my first time) my banker saw I was young and naive so he pulled me aside to talk to me.

"Heres a tip: treat this card as if it's a debit card. Spend it as if you would normally use your debit and make sure to pay EVERYTHING off 100% every week."

I took that to heart. The credit card in my wallet is essentially just another debit card that I can build my score with. I never overspend, max it out, or even go near the limit. I always pay it off every week, or other week. On rare occasions I'd pay it off monthly but I made sure to pay it ALL off monthly. I hate racking up debt.

To me getting credit cards always looked like a terrible idea, even though my parents didn't struggle hearing them talk about all the money to pay it off just left me with fuck that, never touching one.

My friend did that at 18. He had full time work, took out a credit card and spent frivolously, mostly on drugs and takeaways.

It didn't take long for him to realise he doesn't earn enough to pay the bill comfortably, and then loses his job for smoking at work.

Took him around 2 years to get out of that hole but he learned his lesson in the end. Better to learn with a relatively small amount than later on.

Why are Americans so afraid of debit cards? In the Netherlands literally everyone uses a debit card, and you usually can't get lower than -€1000,- before it gets blocked.

My mom took a credit from her brother for her own store. Didnt work out. Spend the next 10 years paying it off as a single mom. Scarred me for life.

Fucking sucks that online stores don't accept debit cards. Literally the only reason I got a credit card in the first place (and also for emergencies I guess).

From what I have been told. Credit cards are a tool to be used with a great temptation. If you spend what you can pay than you can use those like 5% off benefits at a given store but if you over buy than you get 20% interest on what is owed. Is this basically correct?

ELI5: Why are people using credit cards? Don‘t you have to pay more in the end?

They help build your credit, which will help later in life when making larger purchases like vehicles or a house. You only pay more if you have an outstanding balance when your monthly bill is due, so the rule people generally follow is to make purchases throughout the month and then pay them in full before the interest hits.

Fuck everything else in this thread: TAKE CARE OF YOUR TEETH

To add to this: GO TO THE FUCKING DENTIST. YOU ARE NOT TOM HANKS IN CAST AWAY ALL ISOLATED ON A DESERT ISLAND.

Idk if you live in the U.S. But going to the dentist is so freaking expensive. I can't afford a dental clean up and check up for $500 bucks haha I can barely put food on the table to chew with my rotted teeth

Where in the US do you live? If there is a dental school in your area you can get quality and supervised but very slow work done for practically free. Often it IS free if you are on Medicare and want the cheaper options in terms of care.

A toothache is nothing to mess around with man! I've been there and your quality of life will be massively improved even if you just get it yanked out!

I live in Ann Arbor and have gone to our dental school... SOOOOO SLOW BUT so well done and free. One of the things that really slows them down is not having an assistant

How would I contact them to set up an appointment? I'm not in AA but I'm close by and need some dental work done.

Look up U Of M Dental Student Clinic. If you have Medicaid it'll be free or next to it and they also accept most insurance and their cash rates are very reasonable

Also, check out dental hygiene and dental assisting schools which may or may not be co-located with dental schools (for dentists). My wife worked at one and they always run weekly clinics. ProTip: Dental Hygiene students need to pass practical exams for licensing and they need a patient to demo on. In my wife's case when she got her AZ license we paid for a guy (and his family) to go to PHX for a couple days, stay in a resort and get his teeth cleaned.

Went to my local dental school when I didn't have insurance and was very pleased with the outcome, despite long waits due to demand as well as instructors having to check all work.

A few years later when my copay was especially high for otherwise routine maintenance, I returned to said dental school, and was paired with a new student. This dude texted me non-stop from his personal number, guilted me into taking appointment times that I repeatedly said would be incredibly inconvenient or downright impossible to make given my work schedule, and when I had to cancel an appointment due to a family emergency he threatened me with a bill for the full cost of services (i.e. if I'd seen a regular dentist without insurance) and when I didn't respond, sent me a series of fake pre-collections notices on the dental school letterhead.

It forever soured my view of dental schools. They provide an incredible service, but if the scheduling/billing is left entirely up to the student, please be wary.

I was young and overwhelmed so I just walked away from the situation, but in retrospect I should've complained.

I went to the one in Detroit. Several long appts later and I have gotten back on top of my poor teeth health after years of not being able to afford the dentist. I just wish I had heard about that being an option sooner.

Hey, fellow Ann Arborian!

Hey fellow southeast Michigander!

Helllllo!!!!!!!

Seconded! Did this when my family had low income. Took maybe 3 hours but I got quality care at a fraction of the cost. (I sound like a commercial. But I'm telling the truth!)

Most of us don't live near dental schools. Many of us live in states where Medicaid is extremely limited in who it covers. In the state of Georgia, for instance, it only covers you if you are not only poor, but are also a child, an expectant mother, are disabled, are elderly, or suffer from two specific forms of cancer.

In other words, most of Georgia's poor do not qualify, so dental care is out of their reach.

Technical colleges in Georgia have dental hygiene programs that run clinics. There are also clinic days offered in remote areas. Granted, it's not everywhere but it's out there.

It's a big problem. People shouldn't have to walk around with pain every day because it's seen as a luxury to have your teeth worked on.

I just heard about how my local community college does this. It’s free but you commit to 3 3 hour visits. I have heard they are very good and way more thorough than a normal dentist office. A few years ago the president of the college went to them as kind of a publicity stunt. They did X-rays and found a tumor. Turned out to be cancer and they were credited as saving his life.

I don't think the majority of reddit is on Medicare lol but good point

Oh my god you've changed my life!

I live in the UK but I'm living pretty much paycheck to paycheck and haven't gone to the dentist since I was in my early teens about a decade or so ago. There's a dental teaching hospital about 10 minutes down the road from me, when I saw the "Click here to apply for free supervised dental treatment" on their website just now I've never clicked on a link so fast.

Bless you, stranger. My teeth will be forever grateful.

Sure, by letting students work out their mistakes on your teeth.

A noble sacrifice toward the next generation of dental care, and still much better than not going.

Pretty sure those students aren't allowed to work on live patients unless they've got pretty much everything down pat.

I've also heard that all work is supervised and checked for the most part.

Don't be afraid to take risks - I hear nothing but good stuff about this.

even if you just get it yanked out!

Cannot agree more with this. I had one of my molars pulled about a year ago, my life has improved drastically since then. I went from not being able to eat on that side, in constant pain, to chewing normally and not having to worry about whether or not this cold drink is going to hurt my teeth.

My university constantly sends me emails that the college of dentistry will take your teeth out for free.

That's funny! I've heard it is the quickest, easiest procedure to do, and that the overhead on it is practically nothing.

It's such a mixed thing though for the patient. In modern society, especially American modern society, having a hole where a tooth should be is the ultimate marker of someone that is or was in poverty. In the end though, it's a lot better than constant pain and possible life threatening abscesses.

I live in Mobile, Alabama. There's a low cost option here - in theory. This is how it works.

You can only make your appointment by phone.

They only take phone appointments on Wednesday between 9am and 12pm

The line is always busy.

Basically, all the women who work there, and all their kids, their friends and their friends' kids, their neighbors and their neighbors' kids get dental care. But no one else can get through. It sucks.

Man, that's horseshit.

If there is a dental school in your area you can get quality and supervised but very slow work done for practically free.

Yeah if you don't mind waiting in a months long queue. This may have still been applicable when your parents were growing up, but it hasn't been good advice for at least 20 years now.

It really depends on which school you are near. There are some schools where patients are beating down your door and others where you have to like, join a church and beg people in your bible study to come get a filling from you.

My university's school of dentistry is one of the best in the nation and there are always students posting on the FB classifieds looking for people to do exams on.

YMMV but it's certainly not outdated advice.

Yeah and not everybody is within a close distance of a good dental school. Lol.

Often it IS free

Nothing is ever "free", it is just somebody else paying for it.

I live in the US and am 31 years old..I have had false fronts for 4 years and my back teeth are FUCKED. Like...why is it so expensive?!?

Maybe we need to take a trip to Mexico or something, I hear they have cheap and professional dental services haha

It's hit or miss down there. I've had to fix A LOT of bad work that was done in Mexico.

Im down! My Dad gets his done in England. He lived there for a long time so idk if that's how it's cheaper but somehow it is.

It seems as though anywhere other than the U.S is cheaper for health and dental

With insurance it cost me $600 to yank 2 rotten teeth and 2 wisdom teeth. I was ready to just borrow the vice grips out of my work van.

$600 with insurance? That's insane

I have spent $2,000 out of pocket on crowns over the last two years and that's with dental insurance. The dentist gives a discount to the insurance company to be part of the insurance network and the plan kicked in $2,000 total. Before those things, the total came to around $5,000...

That's ridiculous! How much do you pay a month? Is it even worth it if you have to pay so much out of pocket compared to how much you've paid over the months?

My dental insurance covers about the same and it's like 40 dollars a month, so yes it's definitely worth it.

It is retarded that it's not covered under health insurance though.

Dental insurance can definitely soften some of the blow but it doesn't take most of the impact like some health insurance plans can. Also how instead of out of pocket maximums, they have maximum payout limits (my first year was a maximum of $1,000 in benefits. After that I was on the hook 100%).

It's really easy to hit the maximum when you need several thousand dollars of dental work done.

Dental insurance is not like health insurance in the US. Expensive procedures are simply expensive here, full stop.

I had blue cross blue shield and Medicaid and it cost me $1,200 to get all four wisdom teeth taken out. Luckily I could pay $600 upfront and $600 the day of my appointment

$1.2k with insurance? Jeez.. How much was it without the insurance? Cause even after insurance that so much money

It was a little over $2000 without insurance. Like 2,200 I think. Thats over $500 per tooth. I did get out to sleep. I don’t know why it was so much. I guess it’s where I live. No wonder everyone my age has horrible teeth and toothaches all the time. America needs to step it up

Exactly, when I was younger I always wondered why everyone older than me had terrible teeth, now that I'm an adult, I understand completely.

Me too! Seems like it would just be cheaper to get them all pulled out!

Yep, American.

That doesent seems too bad. I paid about $1000 for two widom teeth alone here in Denmark.

Was $1600 insurance cover a bit. Didn't get graft or replacements, just knocked out and pulled out.

Mine was also purely for local anaesthesia and getting them pulled next out.

I just got free cleaning at my community college from the dental hygiene students. They're taught and monitored by working February's and hygienists.

How do you even find out about stuff like this though? I'm sure you just don't walk in and demand a free cleaning Haha

It was happenstance, but you can check the college's website to see if they offer a dental program. Call their office to see if they provide free or reduced pricing. The students need actual people to work on for their skill. Same goes with barber/hair, massage, etc. schools.

Oh thanks! I'll make sure to look

I looked through your recent comment history, and if you are still living in Florida then there are dental schools in Gainesville and Bradenton, and there are some satellite clinics elsewhere as well.

I live in south Florida. Haven't really heard or seen of any dental schools within my area. I'll have to take a closer look

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Yeah, I wish we had actual options

This. Dental care (any health care really) is unaffordable in the US.

Exactly. They think your entire check is just sitting there collecting dust so they want an arm and a leg each month for insurance I'll use MAYBE once a year.

I bought my own dental policy at one point and it was $25/month, which is actually cheaper than what I pay now for a policy through my employer. It was a legit company, too--Blue Cross Blue Shield. Have you looked into it recently? $300 per year really isn't too bad.

I bought my own dental policy at one point and it was $25/month, which is actually cheaper than what I pay now for a policy through my employer.

What does it cover, though? My dental insurance just halves the cost of multi thousand-dollar procedures and allows me to get affordable check-ups. It simply is not a safety net if you run into problems.

My dental insurance is around $20 a months and has free cleanings, and covers a fair amount of other things. I got an intense crown down and it was about $300 or so, it was a very long multi visit process. I had a cap that popped off and my dentist put it back on for about $30, took a lot longer than he expected too. But my dentist is the bomb and they will work with you on prices pretty hardcore if you don’t have insurance.

From what I remember (it's been a few years) it covered cleanings and x-rays 100%, 80% of fillings, and 50% of "major" procedures like crowns and root canals up to the $1,000 policy max. I guess the one major benefit it has is allowing you to have regular cleanings and checkups, which can prevent a lot of those major procedures.

I'll actually try and look into it. I've heard that name before for health insurance, not for dental

What’s the price level? In Denmark a normal check up is around $50-100 and when I had two wisdom teeth removed it was around $1000.

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Seems pretty decent. We also have a bunch of people going to Eastern Europe for dentist care. Haven’t really heard about anyone up here that goes to Northern Africa, but Spain is also quite a lot closer.

A normal check up is fucking free but these dumbasses don't get insurance or just want to lie for the sake of circlejerking.

I live in DC (one of the most expensive places to live in the world) and my dentist charges a flat $100 for a cleaning. Shop around, you can do better than $600..

I'll be starting college near DC this fall, I'll have to look into this, figure out who that dentist is. That sounds like the way I could get through college without rotten teeth

You can't get any sort of state assistance ?

No. Supposedly I make "too much" for any sort of assistance. I don't qualify for any sort of medical or dental insurance help, nothing. I guess they don't take into consideration the bills we pay and daily expenses on things that are actually necessary.

You can blame that on the Republicans in Florida (and every other state that rejected the healthcare expansion). There's a group of people who make just enough that they can't qualify for assistance, but not enough that they can pay for their own healthcare, and they would have been helped had Rick Scott and the rest of our corrupt af government not screwed our citizens over.

Yup. I'm one of them, I'm stuck in the middle. No help, but don't make enough

It's like $200-250 at the dentist I go to.

The hell are you going to the dentist? It's less than a hundred bucks for cleaning and dentist to come say they look fine without insurance.

There's a few places in my area but it's almost like a monopoly, they all have the same high prices for basic services, and sky high prices for any sort of extraction or actual work done.

So long dental plan!

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I never thought of that

God I love the NHS.

My local practice recently went private, kicking out a bunch of patients. The kids can still get free checkups... If the parents pay.

I was lucky since I was able to find another NHS dentist online that I can get to easily, but it's such bullshit. Because you just know that the people who benefit the most from the dentist are going to be the ones least likely to bother to look for a new one, or can't travel to a nearby one.

It's sickening.

It doesn't cost that much for a cleanup.

A cleanup doesn't do much if you already have decay.

Saves you a ton in the long run too. I didn't go for 15 years, spent like $3000 on one tooth. The cleanings and minor stuff is nothing in comparison and will save me money and pain in the future.

With the added bs charges it does. I don't have any sort of insurance. So it's a cool $100 just walk into the dentist and have them take a look. Another $200 for them to touch your teeth with any tools plus the time they spend scraping your teeth, with added misc. charges of course.

Exactly, that guy is talking out of his ass. I get 3-4 cleanings a year, 2 are covered by my insurance, their cash price is $90.

That's because your insurance covered the xrays they needed on the first cleaning.

Initial visits to the dentist where they create your oral profile and are the most expensive, but it's usually all covered by your insurance as a cleaning visit.

Still less than $200. I got xrays and cleaning done without insurance a few times (within the last four years or so).

Then you're probably in a saturated market, good for you.

I used to live in a town where my initial visit anywhere but a sliding scale clinic was easily $200 at the absolute cheapest.

I can go to a really nice dentist for $100 for a cleaning where I'm at. Without insurance. $500 is insane.

Do some research, budget and go to your cheaper options.

If $500 is actually your cheapest option you’re a bit fucked, but you’ll be more ducked when you realize you have irreversible damage to your health and start dying around 40-60.

Well, we gotta die some day right? Haha no but really, I'll have to look outside of my city and on cause it's getting outta hand

Imo it's worth it. All the money and pain you'll have to go through when something goes wrong, it's not worth it

how come Americans have nice teeth then? or is that just the celebrities?

The people that are on TV, or that we encounter because they've afford to travel are going to have good dental care.

The poor in the US can have terrible teeth.

Also straight and superwhite doesn't automatically mean healthy. Despite stereotypes, the UK has healthier teeth than the US, but whitening is much less of a thing here and although people had braces/retainers we tend not to have veneers (unless the teeth were bad enough to need them) which create that weird uniform look.

No that's just celebrities. They can afford that stuff. Gucci mane the rapper dropped 100k at the dentist to have nice teeth haha that's not something your average American can do. My front teeth at straight and white but my molars have bad cavities from being a stupid kid. Almost everyone I know has dental problems cause it's so expensive

My dentist does cleaning and checkup for 93 bucks

Take advantage of it while you can, you're lucky with those prices

Rotten teeth can and will affect other parts of your body. It's not just the teeth you have to worry about.

See if there are community dental clinics in your area! They have reduced prices.

True, Dentistry is perhaps one of the most expensive medical fields. All the equipment they invest in, they recover from the patients.

I got X-rays and teeth cleaning without insurance in the us for $30. Maybe you should shop around?

What state are you in? Here in south Florida x rays alone for anything cost an arm and a leg. So adding that to any dental work and it's something that's out of reach. I'll look around though

I live in Sweden and here you get free dental care until your 23 and they also a month or so ago reduced the checkup price to 300 sek or about 35 dollars.

Were are you going to the dentist? I don't have dental insurance either but a clean and checkup is only $100 for me.

Try calling a local dental school! They usually have free or very low cost student clinics (students supervised by licensed DMD or DDS dentists, of course!)

I thought it was expensive in Australia, but $500 in the US is ridiculous. Don't know how anyone affords it there. Check and clean here is usually around $180 by a good dentist, maybe 100 by one of the cheap ones. I always think of it as investment though. A root canal would cost $800, a crown maybe $2000, i think $10000 for implant per tooth. Also I don't want to wear dentures

That's the thing, not many can afford it. But yes, I see it really just depends on location since some people here are paying between $40-$250

Holy shit. Where I live it's around €70 for a checkup and you get almost all of that back.

where the hell do you live? I love in the SF bay area and I can go get a check up and cleaning for $70 bucks or less! Find an asian dental hygienist place.

As a European guy from Czech republic, also spending 8 months in US I am so grateful for our health care. I go to dentist atleast twice a year, never pay a single penny (once, when he has put something extra on the teeth, was like 50 bucks).

I just feel like Americans are obsessed with the "land of the free" but it has its price. I think most of you would trade free education, healthcare and atleast 2 years paid maternity leave for the ability to buy a gun in Walmart in a second.

I don't even own a gun so I'll take the trade

I’m not sure where you live- are you sure this is actually what it costs? I called 20+ places, asked for their cash price over the phone. Picked the cheapest place. I got a cleaning for $100 every 6 months, and every other time it was $170 with X-rays (only necessary once a year). Most places weren’t over $200. I eventually got a private dental plan for about $20 a month that covered those cleanings. It was basically like paying the cash price except broken up into 12 months with the added bonus of it covering any fillings etc if ever needed.

Can someone explain to me why it's 500 dollars where a check up scale and polish in the UK costs me £17

shit.. in my country a general scaling cost around $70 (its the expensive one). I know a friend who has friends from Australia said that many of his aussie friends get their teeth job in my country.

Jesus christ America, seeing the dentist and hygienist is €60 where I am, how does it cost so much for the dentist?

Out of pocket dental cleanings in my area (suburbs of Philly) are about $80. Most people should be able to swing the out of pocket cleaning. If you need major work, that is definitely a different story.

Jesus! My health insurance has dental, but before I got it six month check-ups/tooth cleaning were only like $120 a visit.

Wow, you guys have it baaaad, a clean up and general check up here costs about 30 dollars

I just want to say, most dentists offer cleanings for a discount if you pay up front. And if you can manage two $75 visits a year, you can skip out on a lot of the expensive stuff down the line.

Insurance is to cover you for the “what ifs.” Insurance is not a “get treatment at a discount” plan. Over the course of a lifetime, if you take good preventive care of your teeth, you don’t need insurance because you can afford your relatively inexpensive treatments. But if you don’t take good care do your teeth, then those monthly payments you paid in the early years of your healthy-teeth life will pay for your old-and-falling-out-teeth life in your later years.

Yeah what? It costs about $100 for a checkup and cleaning.

There is nowhere that a cleaning costs $500. Under $300 with X-rays in Los Angeles.

For the cost of getting your teeth done poorly in the US, you can catch a plane to Mexico/Central America and pay for a good professional.

Source: Grew up in LatAm. Travel yearly to see family, get my teeth cared of, blood work, health cared for when I go there. Most are great doctors/specialists recommended by friends, family, etc. The whole thing out of pocket will cost less than my deductible would be in the US.

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That’s cuz they extorted the student, that’s fucked.

Travel to Mexico and it will cost a quarter of that plus you'll have some awesome holidays!

let me just bash my toothache with a rock.

I didn't go for 6 years because I didn't have insurance. Thankfully only one cavity that was easily fixed.

I just got a free dental check as a part of a health study I participated in, and realised it was the first time in 8 years. Why? Because I have pretty bad dental anxiety and it's fucking expensive, but the thing is, each year I put it off I knew the situation would just be worse (and the price would keep increasing). For some weird reason, I turned out to be completely healthy, but that's probably only due to my dental anxiety and taking really good care of my teeth so I wouldn't have to go. I was lucky.

That will literally make me go broke tho

I have an ice skate I’m good.

But it’s scawwey!

I did this and ended up getting two root canals at 21.

And get a good dentist! My dentist sucks and missed a cavity which caused me some extremely painful ER visit swollen mouth can’t close it jaw abscess. Incredibly painful, incredibly expensive. Get a good dentist. Go regularly.

But it sure feels like it .

Speak for yourself. My island may not be deserted but it's fucking small with too many people and trying to get a dentist appointment is like trying to shoot a bullet with another bullet mid flight in a sealed titanium plane.

I'm going to the Dentist today!

my brother doesn't brush his teeth and hasn't seen a dentist in 3 years. Like wtf man. His company also has good insurance and he doesn't use it.

What does the dentist do

To add to this: IF YOU ARE TOM HANKS IN CAST AWAY ALL ISOLATED ON A DESERT ISLAND, LET GO OF YOUR RAFT FOR ONE SECOND AND SAVE WILSON!!

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Are electric toothbrushes really that much better?

Yes.

Source: am dentist

any electric toothbrush recommendations?

Oral B or Sonicare are both good. I'd recommend one with a pressure sensor (most people brush too hard) and a timer (most people don't brush long enough).

Will co sign on new users brushing too hard. I wanted to make sure my teeth were extra clean but you easily forget that's a machine tearing apart your gums and enamel. Take it easy. Gentle as a feather.

Even people who use regular toothbrushes tend to brush too hard. I have had several patients who have brushed away enough tooth structure that they needed a filling, or have brushed their gums away and now have exposed roots and sensitivity. As long as you're brushing twice a day you really should be thinking of brushing as more of a sweeping movement than a scrubbing movement

I’m only 19 and have already managed to brush my gums away and now I have exposed roots in the bottom left side of my mouth :/ I will basically always chew dominantly on my right side now. Nobody told me you can brush TOO hard

Always? Don't bodies (besides maybe teeth bones) heal? You're so young.

I thought so too but my dentist told me once my gum line has receded it won’t return to how it was originally. It’s really not as big of a bother as I may have made it sound. It really only bothers me when food or water touches that corner of my mouth. Feels like electricity shooting through my teeth

Can you specifically recommend a model?

I like my Philips Sonicare 3. Pretty much anything will work. Quadrant timers are nice for spending the right amount of time on each part of your mouth. Don't bother buying top of the line, it's just wasting money on gimmicky extra features.

Wirecutter has a good article that looks at the various options. Their reviews are great in general.

Whichever you can get on sale. I haven't noticed a clinical difference between any of the decent electric toothbrushes.

Sorry for my ignorance, but would you need to change them in time? And how long? I'm interested now in buying one from reading this

The brush heads come off, and you replace those. Eventually the battery will give out, but that will take a while(1-3years+). I like the sonicare brand, personally. Look for sales, and I wouldn't spend more than $60 unless you really want to. It might be a good idea to buy a more recent model(for longer chance of having replacement heads available to buy)and check nearby stores to see what brush heads they sell for convenience.

It's recommended that you switch out the head every 3 months or so. Otherwise it lasts as long as the battery can hold a charge. I had one give up on me after 4 or 5 years.

You switch the head when the color on the fibers starts to fade. If their tips are white then exchange it.

They have changeable heads you can buy for fairly cheap, the machine itself won't really deteriorate.

You buy replacement brush heads for them, like disposable razor heads. I have a Sonicare. (pricey but worth it) I think each one usually lasts me a month and a half ish.

My dentist asked if I use an electric toothbrush. I don't, but I felt pretty proud :D

I got this weird vibrating toothbrush from Systema* . Any thoughts on that?

*I wish I was kidding here: it really is a toothbrush that vibrates at 150Hz.

Probably a little better than a regular brush, but not as good as a "real" electric brush. Haven't actually used one so I'm just making an educated guess

Sonicare, but I have both Oral B and Sonicare (I don't remember why). You don't even have to get the super expensive models -- just get like the 40 dollar one (the e-series).

too late ordered $70 one rest in peace

Ohhhh i'm weird enough to be jealous at that.

I'm telling you, even if you already take good care of your teeth, Sonicare elevates that shit. I couldn't believe it.

it was even oral b, but hopefully my research was worth it, as the $70 oral b seemed better than the $70 sonicare

I just realised, with all the ads, the ''i am a dentist'' proof feels less reliable than say... Taking plumbing advice from a plumber or almost any other profession .
I'll still consider it , because I know my brushing isn't ideal.

Skepticism is good, generally everyone is trying to sell you something. In this case it's a product that actually works, and you'll just have to take my word that I'm not affiliated with any toothbrush manufacturer. There are numerous studies you can check out verifying the efficacy of electric toothbrushes, but really it just makes sense. A rapidly oscillating toothbrush head is going to remove plaque better than a slowly oscillating head. Also, importantly, there should be a timer that helps you ensure that you're spending 30 seconds in each quadrant of your mouth, helping to ensure that you clean all the surfaces of your teeth. You totally can do an effective job with a manual toothbrush, it's just that an electric brush makes it a lot easier.

What about the cheapo Spinbrush from the grocery store for $10-15 that runs on 2 AA batteries, are those any good? I’ve been using one for about 7 years; had a rechargeable Oral B with a timer and a spinning head for about a year but lost it fleeing a bad living situation. As long as I’m actually brushing for at least two minutes with the Spinbrush and not pushing too hard, is it just as good? Or not at all?

Alright, just ordered one because of you. Thanks :)

How do the rotating brushes get in between teeth?

How?

They clean your teeth better. Part of it I suspect is that there's a timer encouraging you to spend 30 seconds in each quadrant of your mouth. I believe this causes people to be more thorough in their brushing. Also just the mechanical motion of the brush is very efficient and effective at removing plaque

Yes iam a user

I have one but use my regular toothbrush now.

The reason is probably related to cheap brushes; don't get the cheapest you can, get the on-brand brushes. It's a minor expense given they'll last you a few months.

Will recharge it and stop being a cheapskate.

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They clean your teeth better. Part of it I suspect is that there's a timer encouraging you to spend 30 seconds in each quadrant of your mouth. I believe this causes people to be more thorough in their brushing. Also just the mechanical motion of the brush is very efficient and effective at removing plaque

I normally use an electric toothbrush. I learned to appreciate how clean they make my teeth once I used a regular toothbrush on a trip. Definitely worth the money.

Same experience for me. I made the mistake of bringing just a manual toothbrush for a long weekend trip. Never again! Felt like I couldn't get my teeth clean the whole time.

I thought the electric toothbrush didnt make my teeth feel clean enough...

I agree. My teeth feel cleaner when I use a manual. I have come to the conclusion though that this is because I use more toothpaste with a manual (bigger toothbrush head) and so it feels/tastes more minty. I still think the electric makes a better job of actually cleaning my teeth.

Maybe. I just thing i press a lot harder than i do with an electric toothbrush and i can work all the angles

Pushing hard is bad. You can damage your teeth and gums this way.

A machine is always going to be better than a human.

source: life & I'm an RDH

A what? Retired Dentist Homething?

Retired Dentist Human?

So much yes. My electric toothbrush just broke and I’m using a regular ol manual toothbrush right now and I can seriously tell the difference. My teeth don’t feel as clean.

I personally prefer the manual ones

Electric is literally better. It's not even opinion

I’m a dentist, and in my opinion, you can do just as good a job with manual toothbrushes if used the way they should be (for the two minutes that nobody actually does, for starters). But electronic ones make it way easier, and people get excited about them, so I often recommend them.

I personally use a manual though.

Im 20, and still suffer from medicine stains on my teeth from when I was a kid, any suggestions?

Im super self conscious my dentist is judging me when I go to get cleaned twice a year, though I know he isn't.

Generally, staining from medicines used during tooth development isn’t something that can be corrected with even very strong tooth whitening. You will likely have to get veneers or crowns to change their appearance, which will involve shaving down the teeth a bit.

You should ask your dentist!

Preference is literally an opinion

yes, this isnt that case though.

I personally prefer the manual ones

It is his preference, literally his opinion.

Honestly it depends on the person. I've tried both and I always end up going back to the traditional toothbrush because the electric toothbrush just doesn't leave me with the same minty fresh feeling (I can't put as much paste on the brush and I can't use them as long or push as hard because the vibration becomes irritating.) And frankly they just don't leave my teeth feeling nearly as clean.

I am very thorough with my ordinary traditional brush so an electric toothbrush doesn't have much benefit to me. But if you're a person who gives your mouth only a three second clean or who forgets to brush a lot then it might help.

Toothpaste does practically nothing, actually! Some of the minerals can be helpful, but its overall use is to entice people into brushing for that "clean feeling". My mom is a dental hygienist - she recommends that if you use a manual, to dry brush first and finish off with toothpaste. The paste can desensitize your mouth and make it feel cleaner than it actually is.

I'm not sure why you're telling me this.

I specifically said I like toothpaste for the clean feeling.

And he specifically said it’s mainly for the clean feeling....?

"I like toothpaste for the clean feeling."

"Toothpaste is only good for the clean feeling!"

Um...ok...?

I’m confused. You’re agreeing with me?

Yeah I can tell you're confused.

Why is this person telling me something i already know? That was the issue.

I meant to communicate that the clean feeling can be a false feeling, since it can fool your mouth into thinking it's cleaner than it is.

Yes but why?

http://queenofdentalhygiene.net/2015/01/toothpaste-secrets-part-i/

this post is a great place to start!

https://www.dentalbuzz.com/2014/12/30/toothpaste-can-do-more-harm-than-good/

This one as well. They're both saying essentially the same thing - many toothpastes ate actually too abrasive and harm teeth, the SLS that creates foam is a psychological trick and doesn't do anything to actually clean.

facepalm

Noooo... why are you telling me this when I already know?

Because nowhere in your original post did you say that you knew it didn't actually help clean your teeth and I enjoy sharing whay i know about oral health.

Since you're so sarcastic and hostile, I obviously misjudged.

I said "I enjoy the clean feeling."

You chose to interpret that as "I enjoy the clean feeling and a bunch of other crap."

And now you're getting upset at my exasperation which is just kind of funny. I also haven't been sarcastic or hostile at all. Just irritated by your arrogance. You didn't misjudge, you misread.

Just the sonicare ones. $40 and prob the easiest major improvement you can make to your life.

I used to despise them, hated the sensation, but after my dentist went on and on about them I stuck it out and got one.

My teeth have improved so damn much as a result.

YES. It’s the best $50’ish you can spend. Don’t skimp on your teeth.

To be fair, there are a lot of experiments/tests done to compare normal toothbrushes vs electrical ones. They are both great. The reason why most people would agree electrical toothbrushes is because you feel like they're doing the work for you (which is true, all you need to do is move the brush) but if you brushed your teeth diligently and gave each section of your jaw equal time to brush with a normal toothbrush, you'd have the same results as using an electrical toothbrush.

Also: If you don't happen to have perfectly straight teeth (aka some teeth are slanted, diagonally positioned to your smile, etc) and you find it hard to brush some places, then an electric toothbrush will save you! If you currently have braces, you'd LOVE an electric toothbrush.

Amazon usually has sonicare for cheap.

Let's just clarify- I think we are all talking about rechargeable moderately expensive electric toothbrushes...not the ones that are battery powered and slightly bigger than manual toothbrushes. I have a Sonicare FlexCare (or something like that) and even though I am gross and usually only brush my teeth in the morning, my almost-gingivitis is no more and my gums are totally healthy! DO IT DO IT DO IT now.

From what I was told by my dentist, it's as much the built-in timer than anything else as the average person doesn't brush long enough.

Yes.

Source: my dentist yells at me a lot less

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I had one that literally made me bleed. It put holes in cardboard. Definitely get the more expensive option than the cheap one.

Honestly after my dentist told me I was looking at risk for gum disease, I bit the bullet and got a higher end electric toothbrush and you are absolutely right. My gums and teeth haven't been better honestly

Also, WaterPik. Great investments

My dentist tacked on an electric toothbrush after my first cleaning with them. I was annoyed at first, because it was pricey, but I definitely brush much better with it than I ever did with a normal toothbrush. I've also got a small mouth, and it's invaluable when it comes to reaching and actually scrubbing my back teeth.

Electric toothbrush and Listerine Access Flossers completely changed my dental life. Haven't had a cavity since!

What is the advantage of it for you? I've never tried one

I find my self brushing more frequently and brushing for longer (it has a timer so you know how long you should do it, at least 2 minutes). I just love the clean feeling afterwards. It's also a lifesaver after doing triceps at the gym, since it hurts to move so fast back and forth the next day.

It took me the longest time in high school to figure out why it took my sister so long to brush her teeth once she got an electric toothbrush.

Sonicare for life man. I love my teeth.

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I'm curious about the toothpaste too. Can you share the details please? Currently, use one from Trader Joe's.

What is the businesses name?

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what? Why would you use paste without fluoride which helps prevent tooth decay?

Why no fluoride?

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I'd look really deeply into what they're actually going to involve and accomplish for your teeth, though. My orthodontist never mentioned before the end that I'd have a permanent bottom retainer glued to my teeth and would have to wear a top retainer 12 hours a day for the rest of my life for the teeth to stay where they were, nor the springs I ended up needing for several months on my bottom teeth. It was not worth it for me.

I think that permanent bottom retainer is pretty standard. I could be wrong, but my teeth were already naturally straighter than most and I still had to have it. Everyone I know who's had braces has had it but it's more permanent in the way "permanent" hair dye is permanent. I eventually got tired of it and asked my dentist if I still needed it since I'd had it for more than ten years and his response was "oh yeah, it's done its job." He took it off at my next appointment. Obviously everyone's mouth is different but there's still hope!

You see, when I got my braces off at 14, my teeth looked great. I followed directions for a while but got a little lazy with my retainer, not by a lot though. Just wearing them at night instead of all day, bc of the shitty lisp. However, when I got back into it, my teeth would move so much throughout the day, that putting on my bottom retainer at night would cause so much pain I couldn’t sleep. I asked my ortho for a permanent retainer bc at 15 I didn’t have enough discipline nor confidence to wear a retainer that gave me a lisp for 24 hours a day. He refused. Now, at 19, my bottom front teeth are so out of line I don’t like opening my mouth too far.

edit: ages

Ah. I got my braces when I was like 12 or 13? I think 12 because they were off before I got to high school. I tried doing what I was supposed to at first but it didn't last.

[Edit] I was already resentful about having braces at all. They hurt and they inconvenience and it's so much extra work and pain that I didn't sign up for because I didn't have a choice as a minor whose teeth were honestly fine before.[/Edit]

When I got the rubber bands they were so incredibly painful that I couldn't keep them in for more than a few minutes. So I was supposed to wear them for like a few weeks and probably wore them for like a total of an hour over that time period. When I went back in my ortho said I looked like I didn't need the rubber bands anymore (I think he even told me "good job" on wearing them or something).

Then I got spacers because my back molars were almost ready for bands. Came back a week later to, "they're not quite there yet" and left with the spacers still in. Came back ANOTHER week later to "you don't really even need bands back there, we'll just keep them where they are."

So naturally when it was all over and I just had the top retainer to wear at night, I started out wearing it for a few days until I woke up to get ready for school one morning. Still groggy from definitely not being a morning person, I didn't realize my retainer wasn't in my mouth anymore until I got in the shower and ran my hand over the back of my hair.

After that it was like once a week and then I just complained that it hurt/didn't fit right, because obviously.

Similar for me too the pain and tenderness(?) of my teeth when I put them on and in the morning was more than I could be arsed for

exactly. i couldn’t eat breakfast bc my whole jaw was sore

Periodically ask your orthodontist if you can stop with the top one or at least reduce the time you wear it. I don't know if this is possible in every case, but I was gradually reduced to one night a week and then eventually just stopped. The orthodontist checked on them two years later and there was only extremely minimal shifting on one tooth.

Interesting. When I had my teeth done (1980s UK) I only ever had a removable brace or the glued/wired type.

Whatever they did, my teeth gradually improved over several months then after the braces came off went back to their original position in a couple of weeks.

Never any mention of a permanent retainer. In the end I had an operation to remove some bone and reset my jaw at the right angle so the teeth ended up straight!

I wear top and bottom when I sleep. It was a shitty thing to find out about, but now I like them. Comfortable, and protection from night grinding. Made the gf get a night guard made for her grinding and she’s happy with that too. Had to really push her to get it and she already had problems because of it, but after the initial period it’s more comfortable with than without.

Does the bottom retainer affect your speech?

For like a week and then you adjust

I never adjusted and it sucked

I have been wearing a lower one for seven eight years, I rarely even notice it.

Or don't. Not everyone needs braces, I think they are far too common these days, it's almost like a rite of passage. I see teenagers with very straight teeth who get braces anyway because of small problems. I went to the orthodontist at 17 to get braces, and he told me I would need to pay around $10,000 over 3 years and get four perfectly healthy teeth pulled out in order to get braces. And I would need to wear a retainer for the rest of my life. My teeth have very few functional problems, the only problems I have are overbite (when your top teeth overlap your bottom teeth too much), imperfectly aligned back teeth and mild crowding in my front teeth. The only complication from these problems in the long run is uneven wear, which pretty much everyone gets no matter what. I said no to braces and never looked back. Not everyone needs braces, don't feel under pressure to go through painful surgery and spend a fortune if you're fine with your teeth just because all of your friends have perfectly straight teeth.

And I would need to wear a retainer for the rest of my life.

Such bullshit. If I would have known that going into it I never would have gone through all that hell.

My retainer game me migraines and made waking up ever single day horrible. In the middle of the night it snapped in my mouth jabbing me a little with a metal piece. I took it as a sign. My teeth have stayed kinda straight, but I now have jaw problems, get headaches more than I ever did before them and $10k is gone. Fuck braces and fuck orthodontists who butcher kids without really explaining what's happening.

Could you not get a plastic retainer?

I got braces on when I was 25 and finished them up 8 months ago. I have permanent metal retainers on my top and bottom arch with a plastic retainer to wear at night.

If I had opted to not get the permanent retainer, I would have had to wear the plastic one for a year or so basically 24hrs and then nightly after that.

Thankfully I've had zero issues with my retainers and I couldn't be happier that I got my teeth fixed. Granted, my teeth were jacked before.

I know everyone's teeth are different though, but it's worth investigating if you haven't already.

Well, I don't care enough or have enough money. This was all years ago. My teeth are fine.

Yeah, I would have needed a fixed retainer and also to wear a plastic retainer 24 hours a day for the first year and then at night for the rest of my life, too. That's the thing about braces - it's not even just the braces, once you get them it's a lifetime commitment to take care of the changes that it makes in your teeth or else your teeth shift back because it's not in a natural arrangement. And that's why I really don't like seeing how so many young kids are getting braces when they really don't need them, for the sake of cosmetics. You don't need cosmetically perfect teeth - it's not worth the pain and the expense, I believe that only people who have actual functional problems or severe crowding should be recommended braces.

I believe that only people who have actual functional problems or severe crowding should be recommended braces.

Agreed. I've had some painful things happen in my life and the idea that they are gung-ho to put children though this is pretty sick IMO. It's true there's a lot of evidence that beautiful people do better in life, but there's a grey area...

But it's so difficult to estimate the complications/ risks if you don't go through with it. I have an occlusion, which could only be fixed with 2 surgeries and wearing braces for 2 years. The occlusion doesn't have an impact on me yet, except that my jaw joint "clicks" sometimes, the fact that I do not like to smile with my mouth wide open and that I can't eat a sandwich without losing some vegetables in the proces.

Does anybody here have an occlusion? What are the consequences on the long run?

If you have an actual medical reason to get your teeth fixed like occlusion or cross bite, then absolutely get braces. I was talking about cases like mine where there is really no medical reason to get them, it's pretty much all cosmetic. In my case I think it wasn't worth it to go through all those potential complications, pain and expense just so my teeth could look a little bit better.

I have an overbite and a gummy smile, i require double jaw surgery and have had braces for 1,5 year now and honestly, do it! With me it was also difficult to imagine what would happen if I didn’t do this, but I’m glad I did. If only just for the confidence when speaking, smiling without feeling selfconscious etc. Ok braces are sometimes annoying and I’m sure the surgery won’t be fun but I can’t wait to eat like a normal person lol

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I had a really bad snaggletooth. Sure, it made me self conscious, but it also caused actual physical issues.

I would chip my teeth because it sat in front of my top teeth. I had a constant wound in my mouth from biting myself because of it. I would get random pain in that tooth, despite having no cavities or anything like that.

I'm so happy I finally got my teeth fixed.

Depending what your teeth are like braces might be able to prevent you losing a tooth - some of my mum's teeth pushed one of her other teeth right out of her gums. Lots of painful gum transplants to try and save it and eventually it had to get pulled. Apparently braces as a child would have saved it

At the time, I hated having them as a kid and it felt like punishment, but now as an adult I look back on it and I couldn't be more thankful towards my parents. I didn't wear my retainers nearly as much as I should've so they quickly didn't fit me, but I had braces for like 5 years because of an over bite so my teeth barely moved anyways. I'm very happy with my smile.

Thankfully if you're sufficiently depressed even a mouthguard is too much effort.

I won't have teeth by 30. I'm near 23.

Then again, I don't smile.

This entire teeth thread is so privileged I almost want to burn it down. Then again, I don't matter. People can tell you that you do.

But it doesn't matter. Being undead doesn't matter, not anymore than the junkies the DEA and well the entire GoP and every reactionary, uneducated, and ignorant force in this country let die by fent.

50 billion a year.

But hey. As the only superpower why bother with social injustice if a third of your population are no different than social darwinists.

I only hope to die for something good. A foxhole against a dictator regime's murderous spree. I'm sure there will be a foxhole there.

I am sure a dozen people would want to talk to me first.

And no novel would suffice for them to not be hurt. So people try to disguise their painful, release from constant pain.

Why I even bother commenting here I dont know.

Even Darkness Visible isn't remotely close to, what too many people. I'd say become. But there are no words

The pen is mightier than the sword, but always a few centuries late for people who until now could or failed to speak.

Its understandable. Hell death by cop.

Death by DEA cop. Had it coming fucker. (not really but people get desperate) For half a century.

This all sucks since I actually believe no one, EVER, can "deserve" to suffer.

That is merely an objective, philosophical fact. Facts. Those who, can't or won't discern the difference, still believe in "deserving", "earning".

Deserve. Haha. Well, naturally those who fail to understand the breath and depth of that, cant wont or don't care to ever do so. And manage to be very active politically.

So. Words.

Too late

Wonder how many will commit suicide tomorrow.

Or for them, worse, suffer for decades instead

words

Haha. Off. Topic.

I'm sure.

That's okay.

A topic like this without a reply like this has no meaning anyway. /shrugs/

Uhhhhh you iight?

Doesn't apply to the undead.

Seriously, it just doesn't. Far from the only one out there, trying, for a few hours or so of energy I get out of meds that in addition are primitive and carry risks.

I've wanted braces for years but at this point I'm getting cavities and dental problems faster than they can be fixed. No dentist wants to consider braces until all my tooth ailments are solved :/

Have you tried switching to a different toothbrush and toothpaste? That could make a difference, especially if you're just using a standard toothbrush. Electric toothbrushes do tend to work better, at least in my experience. An Arm and Hammer spin brush is only around $15-20, which is a heck of a lot cheaper than getting a cavity filled.

Yep, for 8 years I've had multiple tooth issues and I've been trying different shaped toothbrush heads, bristle density, and toothpastes that claim different things (like ultimate enamel repair, ultra whitening, sensitive teeth, etc). My last dentist said most toothpastes are fairly the same, that a lot of it is in the brush. I follow good dental hygiene but both sides of my family had their teeth rot out of their head before 40, and apparently shitty dental genetics are a real and unfortunate thing :/

Maybe talk to your dentist about sealing your teeth? I think it's usually only done with kids, but it might help prevent some of the cavities, depending on what all is causing them. I have no idea about the cost but it might be worth looking into.

As someone who's getting his braces off this week - I support this. I can actually look at the mirror now and smile and not look like a serial killer. Work on the teeth people - you will thank yourself later many years from now!

I got mine at 18 right when I started University, and the obvious concern was that I wouldn't look cool enough for college. Fuck that, I'm so glad I got them. Having nice teeth boosts your confidence 10x

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Just laugh! Thats way more important than looking good or not!!!

Source: i had horrible horrible teeth until i got braces at 20, and I always smiled because fuck it, I’m not on earth just to look pretty for other people

Amen! I’m 27 and getting my braces put on next Monday. Take care of the sandwich eaters!

Invisalign works quite well and is pretty discrete. Lots of people in their 20s and 30s get it. I did it because I stopped wearing my retainer and my teeth got jacked over time.

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It isn't for everyone, but worth looking into. They should also explain why it's not an option as well.

Oh my god I'm 22 and I am finally at a place where I can get braces and I've been googling adult braces for the last 20 minutes dreading the idea of having metal mouth for 2 years. I'm gonna do it though because this goes beyond aesthetic reasons lol

Do it! I got them when I was 24, it'll hurt initially but you'll honestly forget they are there most of the time.

I'm getting them next month at 23. The way I look at it is I either get them or get over my insecurity with my teeth because I have the chance the fix them now.

Got braces when I was 20. I'm 22 now and still have them. They're kinda lame especially because I'm in college and don't feel comfortable smiling in pictures but at least I'm going to have straight teeth sooner rather than later

I'm 31yrs old and just got braces 1.5 weeks ago. I wish so much my parents would have got them for me when I was younger or I could have afforded it sooner. Due to an overbite I have fractured enamel from teeth grinding and eroded TMJ on both sides. In an effort to correct my bite to prevent further damage I finally got braces. It cost alot and the first week was hell (I miss normal food still) and it feels weird being a 31yrs old mom with braces. Everyone says I look 14yrs old. BUT I only have 1.5-2yrs until they are off and I'm looking forward to the end result.

It's not too late! I got mine on 1.5 years ago and I'm 28. Best decision I ever made. And it's not as bad as people say. I still eat whatever I want, just gently. Haven't broken a bracket yet. It hurts initially but you get used to it. And my teeth have never been so clean because I'm brushing all the time!

Just did this. I had braces when I was around 12, and didn't wear my retainer. Unfortunately, that's a 5000 dollar mistake, but my insurance covers 1000 so it could be worse. That being said, at 25 I knew I needed to do them now or I would just keep putting them off. Same thing with finishing college, which I'm going back for this upcoming semester.

Get 'em now! At 27 and wearing braces. Lots of orthodontists have payment plans with no interest for a certain amount of time :D

Should've told my mom when I was 15 😭

all the hookers in Jaco, Costa Rica have braces

Unless you're like me and still have your baby teeth, then the good time to get braces is when they finally fall out and you get implants to replace them

I took the plunge at 23 and got braces called 6 month smile, it was 0% interest so I could pay it back in chunks and within 6 months I had teeth I loved!

Tell me more...

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In America, straight teeth are considered an important aspect of physical attractiveness.

They're just cosmetic. I wish people would stop being so driven by marketing.

They aren't just cosmetic. There is tons of health problems they fix aswell.

Lmaooo just got on adult braces after i was lckadasical with my retainer use and permanently moved some teeth out of position. T minues 1.49 years left..

You have to pay for braces in the (US?), damn its free for under 18's in UK

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It comes frow WWII when the Americans were in Britain and the NHS didn't exist yet. The U.K. has been at the top when it comes to dental health for a while now.

um i think it is a bit of one yea, with the typical British Person drinking tea with crooked teeth, and nah its just part of NHS, we get almost everything for free i believe if its medical related

Im 28 and got them when I was 27 and a half. It s still time manm get them! Its been like 7 months and they are already improved and my teeth cleaning habits have improved tenfold.

I'm also 29 and I just had them put on last week, after a couple months of prep-work (one crown and four extractions - basically one in each corner). Mostly I waited cause I had a real bad dental experience when I was younger that soured me on it for awhile, and also because my new insurance finally kicked in (orthodontic coverage is delayed for a year for reasons). I still have to pay 4k over two years but the insurance means I save 2k, and I can get about 200-500 back through their incentive program if I stay a good patient.

I grew up with horrible teeth. All my peers made fun of my teeth in high school. In college it got a little better and I wasn't so heavily judged. Plus I stopped giving a fuck as much. Still, I told myself one day I'll get braces for sure.

Recently graduated college. Just landed my first job to start in roughly a month. Heres to hoping in a few months or one year I'll have enough to get some braces.

im 19 about to get my braces off soon (hopefully!!) I'm super self conscious about them, but I'm glad i didnt wait any longer to get them, i've had them for a little over 2 years now

25 year old with braces checking in! I wish I had done it sooner but if you are worrying about people's reactions to them as an adult there is no need. I've been to job interviews, important conferences and am in a long term relationship and it's rarely been an issue or commented on. Of course I feel a little insecure about them from time to time and they can be a little annoying when eating certain things but they are definitely worth it. I even have two missing front teeth, which used to be one of my worst fears and it's just not a big deal. People might take a second look occasionally but it's amazing seeing the progress and if you choose your own colours, they can look pretty damn cute. If you want them, get them.

You can do it! Got them at 33, now I'm 35 and seem to smile in every picture. It really helps your confidence.

Now is fine too. I got mine at 27 or 28. A friend has hers now at 33. You look ridiculous for a couple years, but stop giving a shit about it after a few weeks. And then it looks way better forever after that and the braces period is a blip you forget about

But unless you have health reasons to do it I wouldn’t bother.

one of my regrest as well. should've gotten it years ago

Got them from age 25-27 and it was such a good choice. I was in grad school and working and going on professional interviews with them. It is not too late!

I got braces installed about 2-1/2 years ago (I'm 30). Was a very costly investment since I had to get an extra 4 teeth pulled out (with my wisdom teeth already extracted mind you), so I have 8 less teeth than normal people. I also have no teeth insurance, so had to pay out of pocket via payment plan with my orthodontist (18 months). So far, I don't regret one bit even though some days it hurts like hell. I've got about 6 months left according to my orthodontist, the hardest has been not drinking any red wine or eating any nuts/pop corn/anything sticky.

It really depends on what you need them for. If it's to really align your bite it's fine. But most people do it just for aesthetic reasons. It's more vanity than anything else.

Yes, my parents let me choose not to get them in high school. Why did they even give me a choice?

Look into Orthotropics, my man. You’re still quite young so you have a chance. Aligning your teeth is a natural process, and braces actually elongate your face which can have health problems and make you more unattractive.

This, I had so many teeth removed by the time I was 21, not for surgical reason but because they had snapped off or rotted.

I will never forget the face of one girl, behind the the bar, she asked me what I was drinking ask I told her 'a pint of Guinness' , by the time the word 'of' left my mouth I saw her eyes catch that my 3 front teeth was missing.

What followed was an involuntary facial expression no one should ever see, makes you feel so ugly and proves that looks/vanity really do mean something. She almost caught herself making that facial expression and then realised that what she was doing, even though what she was visibly doing on the outside, she probably thought it was on the inside.

She seemed little embarrassed after she realised I saw what she did but I didn't react only smiled with my mouth closed. Tbh I actually felt quite embarrassed for her, wish people where more visible with what they feel like that that pretend.

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I feel ya pain dude!

Do you ever get the double-take or the "sorry can you repeat that I didn't hear you because I was busy staring at your gums" look? Those are my favorites. Being a 31 year old woman who looks 20 tops and having a missing front tooth causes a lot of odd looks. The "ew" look and the pity look are the worst.

I used to in my early 20's but I was fortunate enough to get some implants. Cost a bit but It's worth it. I went 5 years of isolation, depression, and anxiety before I realized I was stuck in a cycle and couldn't get a job since it was the 2011 credit crunch/recession years.

And trying to go through a Job interview without smiling is just silly because most people want to come across as polite, knowledgeable and responsive to the questions they might ask. That's kinda hard to do with you mouth shut, and most employers wouldn't like it if a brought along a ventriloquist's dummy.

The only choice I thought I had to get a job into the field I love was was to go to University. I had failed Highschool college twice and that gained me no qualifications, apart from a certificate in getting high and drunk a lot and joking around with friends, can't really put that on your CV.

So I went to University with a bucket of doubt, depression a healthy dose of anxiety and an alcohol and drug problem I'm not even sure if I passed my SAT's in Primary school (Elementary school in the USA I think it's called, from ages 8-12)

Turns out the majority of people I met at university where alcoholics and weed smokers so I loved every minute of it meet some of the best people I have ever met and had the best years of my life in a place that is so beautiful, But any sorry I'm rambling I will get to the final point now.

Turns out that the whole going to interview thing and waiting for the point for them to see my teeth and automatically knowing it's a big fat 'NO' with int he first 2 minutes and you have to sit there for another 20 is soul destroying. When I went to Uni I got a bachelor degree to my surprise, first education test I ever passed :)

Now I'm just finishing up my master degree and I'm applying for Ph.D.'s positions. So in hindsight, if it wasn't for my fucked up teeth I probably would never have gone down this path in life at all. Asked me when I was 24 if I was gonna go to University and pass I would have laughed at you, but im 31 now and writing my masters thesis. Even though I got my teeth fixed just before I came to Uni when I was 26 I never regretted losing them, because what i have achieved, even though it was kinda thought social pressure.

There's an English saying for the type of situation, it's called "Swings and roundabouts" Not sure you any of you guys use that one over the pond.

Wow, that's a pretty wild ride. I have a plastic fake kind of like a retainer but with a tooth on it so as long as I remember to put it in I'm normal. But I can't eat with it in so I have to avoid formal dinners.

Kinda funny that you went back to school and excelled and it's perfect for you. I have a bachelor's in English and it's sadly useless in the current job market. I'm working as a dog treat baker :p.

We don't use that saying here but I totally get where it's coming from!

As a 23 year old missing 2 teeth (luckily in the back) I cant upvote this enough. Getting teeth pulled is painful. Tooth aches are painful. Going to a dentist with poor oral hygiene is embarrassing, and fixing your teeth is expensive as fuck. To get my missing teeth replaced I'm looking at about $8,000 out of pocket. That's not something I'm going to be able to afford for a long time.

TL;DR poor oral hygiene is both expensive and painful. Don't do it to yourself. And this applies to everyone, not just people in their 20's. If you're 12 and reading this, brush your damn teeth.

This. Was just at my dentist today. I haven't done too bad with my teeth, but my step brother for instance had to get pretty much all his teeth replaced at ~ 36. It cost him around ~ $50,000 for the work.

Ouch. That was the reason I got braces at 26. My dentist told me I could spend 10k now and retain my teeth...or spend the same if not more in 10 years time to have all my teeth ripped out and replaced by dentures. Was a pretty easy decision for me.

Oh man! I'm in my early 20s, broke and have two molars that are currently killing me. Can't go to the dentist cause it's too expensive and can't afford dental insurance. Cavities and tooth aches suck and have kept me awake at night

I understand how you feel, my Wisdom teeth were killing me, they hurt so bad so I was constantly on painkillers. I went to the dentist and they referred me to the Hospital to get all 4 wisdom teeth removed. They took out my left ones, still going to get my right 2 pulled in a few weeks. It feels so good to not having to feel all that pain anymore.

Oh lucky! How much is the hospital bill for that? It would be an arm and a leg for me if it were from a hospital

Nothing, I like in the UK, so fortunately I do not have to pay.

Not sure what your budget is, but I use Humana dental insurance and it's $32 a month. The longer you have it the more it covers.

I just checked it out and it seems that the plans are for routine cleaning and evaluation.. Does your plan cover any actual work or just the cleanings and check ups?

It covers cleaning, fillings, and even root canals and major stuff like veneers, bridges, etc (but not braces and implants).

Edit: Here is where I got the info from my plan, the link is also a PDF.

Oh thank you! I'll check it out

Alternatively, ask your dentist's office if they can recommend a dental discount plan. I had one that was $50 a year and it saved me a ton of money. I've still spent $7k fixing the mistakes of my youth though.

Now this is half shitty advice, but if you’re pretty damn sure they’re infected with a lot of swelling but can’t afford the doctor... go to your local pet store and buy fishmox. It’s just amoxicillin in the same dosage sizes you would get prescribed. Standard dosages can be found online. Follow the full course, or you’re why we have super bacteria.

36 in a few months, no dentist visits in like a decade, been brushing like once a week, maybe. Currently need 4 root canals and a bunch of fillings. Every time I eat I gotta do gymnastics so it doesn't hurt. Mom's genetics gave me a nice nearly perfect set of teeth too, but I've squandered it. Once I've spent the couple grand needed to fix em up, I'll keep em tip-top.

Get an electric toothbrush and a nice set of white strips. Once you have a super clean and white smile you'll do a lot to want to maintain it.

Why brushing so infrequently?

Speaking of basic things that help a lot: keep your back straight. These days I tell every kid the best advice I can give them is brush your teeth and sit with your back straight. They usually laugh but God damn I wish I had followed that same advice through my childhood.

I fucked that up long before my twenties.

This is legit, if you ignore them like I did, you will have to cough up the amount of money I just did to fix them later. Definitely a good habit to get into.

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No, I've always brushed and tried my best. But not going to the dentist can really take it's toll, especially around your gumline.

My next cleaning is already scheduled lol.

If you don't want the whole toothless look then understand how incredibly expensive dental work is. It's not covered under medical insurance, it's separate and usually all out of pocket Plus it's really uncomfortable at best... debilitating pain at worst.

Get a cheap electric toothbrush. You don't need some stupid expensive one. The $8 one I got off Amazon was so much better than a nice manual one that my dental hygienist thought I had bought an expensive one. It was a huge improvement over doing manually.

Which one did you buy? I'm nervous about getting a less expensive one and it not working at all.

Spinbrush truly radiant

Don’t stop wearing your retainers.

I just had to get my retainers replaced in the UK after I lost them abroad...over £150 for replacement:( thanks dentistry.

AND YOUR GUMS! Don't brush too hard, no one tells you that as you get older, YOUR GODDAMN GUMS START TO RECEDE.

oh god there’s just no hope for any of us is there

Just can't pay for it, I need over 7 extractions.

As in this 30 year old needs 7to9 teeth surgically removed.

I'm not choosing to be like this, middle class living isn't all it looks like.

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Ignore your teeth and they'll go away.

I’d like to add to this: your ears are important, too. Tinitis sucks, and it doesn't go away.

I got you fam

As someone with terrible teeth (due to braces, enamel weakening and general jaw issues) at 25 my largest ambition is to get enough money to get them sorted.

As someone with terrible teeth (due to braces

How does that work?

The braces straightened my teeth but weakened the enamel - I was told to keep my teeth very clean and I took this literally enough that a combination of over brushing and braces changing the pattern of pressure weakened the enamel. Braces help with straightening, but they can cause damage as well dependent on varying factors jaw, diet, brushing style etc

So losing the enamel leads to the teeth becoming more yellow.. that doesn't mean they'll fall out right? I had similar issues with braces and while my teeth aren't a dark mustard yellow or something you'd see from someone who doesn't brush at all.. they're not nearly as white as they should be and I feel ashamed :(

To add- one of my front canine teeth hurts to brush, but only if I don't brush it for a while, and it looks mildly overexposed :/ despite me not knowing what exactly that means to have teeth "overexposed"

No, it just means that they are a bit more susceptible to trauma. Like, I've never had a tooth fall out- but because of issues with my back teeth I have lost quite a few from the lower sides.

My major issue is the one you talk about. Cosmetically, there is probably very little wrong with my teeth when I smile, but I still don't like them.

I think my dentist caused my jaw issues. I went to a new dentist and they took xrays on the first visit, using those ones you stick in between your teeth and bite down on. They were larger than the ones my previous dentist used, so it was pretty uncomfortable but only hurt a little. However, the next day I woke up and my jaw was locked. It ended up being sore and unable to open fully for a couple months. It's much better now, but I still can't open my mouth fully without readjusting my jaw halfway through. No more tall sandwiches for me.

Sounds like it could have been a locked muscle, or inflammation of the tooth that was then made worse by the pressure. It might be fixable, might not. You could have Trismus, which is essentially lockjaw caused after lots of dental procedures, muscle relaxants can help I have read.

My jaw locked for a second for the first time about a month ago and it terrified me. I can't imagine waking up with that. Did you have to pop it back into place or something?

What happened was I woke up, yawned, and then couldn't close my mouth. I was still half asleep so I kind of panicked and somehow forced my mouth shut, which might have made it worse. The problem started just on the left side, and for the next couple months I went from being able to open my mouth one finger width up to 2.5 finger widths. Now my jaw constantly clicks on both sides. Not really sure what I should have done at the time, but I guess all I can say is try not to force it to move if it's stuck, because it might make it worse.

You say it's clicking, this when like, you're chewing? Does it sound like rice crispies sometimes too?

You might want to get checked for TMJ issues. I've got it and sometimes my jaw is just killing me. Never had it get stuck^yet

Yeah, I've been back to that dentist once since it happened and they just handed me a pamphlet on TMJ. It doesn't click for normal chewing, but opening my mouth more than about halfway makes it click. Left side sounds a little like rice crispies, I guess? The right side is more of a dull thud/popping sound. It hasn't hurt in a while at least, so that's good.

Are you a salad man or a salad, man?

I wish I could take all the money we spend on health insurance and turn it in to dental insurance for like 6 months or so. I have so much crap that I need done. One of my teeth is about yo crack and i know how painful its gonna be.

I'm 20 right now and although my teeth aren't rotten my gums are inflamed and I'm very concerned about my teeth. They're slightly yellow and I haven't had to get false teeth yet but I feel it's something the dentist would pull on me if I don't get my act together. I've cut soda out of my diet completely so that's a good thing at least, I only drink water or tea. I'm brushing at least twice a day now (despite severe anxiety and my dorm situation making me almost nocturnal), so... Here's for the future?

Made an account to tell you. A dentist will NEVER EVER advise you to pull your teeth and get false teeth if it is not absolutely necessary. Dentists know better than anyone how truly terrible dentures are, they will not prescribe dentures as a punishment for you not having your act together. They will fix things as best they can for you to keep your teeth for as long as you can. The earlier you go, the better! Trust me. If you go in early, a cavity can be fixed with a filling. If you wait until you have a toothache, you will need a root canal. If you wait longer than that, you will need the tooth out. Even if you improve your oral hygiene, any existing cavities will still progress until the dentist fixes them. Do not wait! Dentists understand, we will not judge you, it's literally our job to fix teeth! We want to help you!

First, I appreciate you taking the effort and making an account to write this reply, thank you so much :D

Second, I've known for a couple years that due to how one tooth is coming in, I may need to have a tooth pulled. I'm not certain.. but that's just what I've been told. I was given braces which eventually ruined my enamel, so my teeth aren't white anymore :/, and I don't really know a whole lot about whitening strips other than that they exist and are meant to artificially(?) whiten teeth but don't actually strengthen the tooth.

Thank you for all the work that you do as a dentist! :)

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If I'm not mistaken, most places have the gas that knocks you out a little. They usually do it for wisdom extractions , I'm sure if you ask they'll do it!

I have really bad anxiety as well and I'm going in a month or two, and I'm going to ask if they as well.

They can, it just costs a lot more. I used to do sedation dentistry when I had a lot more anxiety about getting work done. Over time I got more comfortable with it and can deal with the injections and stuff, but if you feel like you need it, it is and option.

Anxiety is rough, but go for it. It will be worth it.

Actually very true. I recently moved out of home, and I keep forgetting now, I'm terrified that they'll be ruined when I'm older and desperately want to get back in the habit

Take care of your teeth starting right now. Even if they are bad, it’s important to keep it at baseline. And if you have bad credit you can’t get a small medical loan for any really large dental care you may need. That’s assuming you have insurance. I done fucked up big when I was younger. I wish I had prettier, whiter teeth but I have them all. In the future when I can afford it I’ll have some more major stuff taken care of.

That's a good way to look at this, thank you so much :)

Absolutely fantastic advice. I’ve met people who I might otherwise be willing to date but just cannot get over the awful dental situation. It’s not like teeth rot after one night of not brushing, so to me it’s a huge red flag that they have terrible habits.

How do I delete everyone else’s comment and put this one at the top?

I sometimes brush like once a month and I keep telling myself that my teeth are absolutely healthy.

At one point when my mental state got bad I ended up brushing about once a week... For 5 minutes, but once a week. I've since gotten back on track as of a few months ago and while my teeth do sometimes hurt I keep at it and just try to set a solid baseline even if I can't make them pearly white

Fuck yes. I’m only 25 and have never had a cavity and people are so impressed when they hear that. I feel like it shouldn’t be abnormal to have a regular dental hygiene routine.

And your hearing. You’re going to hear one really high pitches note of that concert for the rest of your life if you don’t wear ear plugs!!

I'm 19 and already have fucked up teeth because my family never fucking taught me the basics -- I'm still trying to make it a habit but the way things are looking I'll have to get a tooth pulled within the next year

just booked a dental appointment for my yearly check. Thank you!

Too late for me and I'm 26.

Oh yeah I'm 35 and will have to have all my top teeth replaced. Had no insurance the majority of my 20s. It gets worse when your 35+ vs taking a loan out or doing what you can in your 20s for 600-2,000. In your 30s you may be looking at 35k plus.... even with insurance.

Literally at the dentists now freaking out over the cost but it's definitely worth it.

As a 28 year old working a 12 hour night shift with 2 toothaches and no painkillers in sight. I couldn't agree with this more.

I used to skip on brushing my teeth in evenings and eventually noticed that the enamel for my front teeth are becoming transparent. I can literally see my dentine in the mirror under a bright light.

I'm currently saving up money for school, but I think I might end up using it to somehow fix my teeth.

And ears! Like teeth, if damage is done, it's not fixable.

I lost about half of my theet by the time I was 19, so this tip wouldn’t work for me.

In the process of working through $10,000 in dental bills (post insurance... it's way more in reality because this stuff can be extremely time sensitive.), so I very much agree.

The best advocate for proper dental hygiene? Root Canels. :(

I've been told my teeth are freakishly perfect

I second this. I got my top teeth yanked out at 26 because they were rotting out of my head. I had infections and they would brake when I bit into bread. After they were pulled and the infections worked out of my body I felt so much better.

Spent my 20's imagining dental hygiene was optional. Seriously, if I had at least done a poor job of taking care of my teeth, I would've saved a ton of money.

From November 2015 until February this year, I've spent about $9k on fixing my teeth. If you go back a couple years and include the first round of wisdom teeth extraction, that price jumps up to about $10k.

But, all in all, I was pretty lucky. Other than my wisdom teeth, I only lost a single molar in the back of my mouth. I had a slew of cavities across my top teeth and had to get two crowns. That was it. Considering my father barely has any of his top teeth left, I feel like I was pretty lucky.

I go to the dentist every 6 months. Stay calm folks

I’ve already made this mistake ;-;

And ears. Wear ear plugs when going somewhere loud. This ringing shit sucks.

I'm 24 and have had 3 root canals & crowns. This shit will not go well for me when I get old...

I have futureproofed your comment as a motivator to brush my teeth everyday

Just made an appointment with the dentist, ty.

Not just taking care of them. Even if you're too skint to afford the dentist, go. I'm now having to pay a lot more for a root canal and reconstruction instead of just a filling.

Bunch of shills for the ADA in here.

Brb gonna go brush my teeth

So confession time: I don't care about my teeth. Or rather, I do care - because I despise having teeth to begin with. The idea of brushing them every day is so awful to me that I just... don't, I'd rather get them removed entirely than try and maintain/fix them.

Anyone wanna go over why this is a really bad idea? Because I do need convincing that this is a really bad idea.

Eating.

You can do that with fake teeth too.

You’d still need to take care of those fake teeth regularly

This is the post that for me turns the thread from a fun time to a serious look at myself

I've been putting off going to the dentist for ages but this just made me book an appointment, so thanks!

If there's one thing I've always lacked in my life, it's dental care. I should probably stay on top of that

Ugh. You’re right.

Take care of yourself. Your habits now will follow you for a long time. I'm 27 and starting to realize this so I'm trying to turn things around. less drinking, more salads, less carbs, etc

Also don't waste money on stupid shit. If you're about to buy something stupid just think "will i get annoyed at having this in 2 years?"

If you're about to buy something stupid just think [...]

This reminds me of some good words of wisdom from Dwight Schrute:

"Whenever I'm about to do something, I think, 'Would an idiot do that?' And if they would, I do not do that thing."

that's unironically some of the best advice dwight has ever given out.

Edit: All you pedants telling me idiots breathe, Neil Degrasse Tyson congratulates you. I think if an action can be attributed specifically to something you would see an idiot doing, e.g. speeding to cut someone off and saving 3 seconds on your commute, then do not do the thing despite wanting to do it.

-Dwight Schrute

-Michael Scott

Edit: how do format

The joke is that he does idiotic things all the time, but in seriousness, it is a good thing to ask yourself.

Im not sure who said it...but I love it

Dont buy something until you can afford to buy it twice

r/unexpectedoffice

Lmao the NDT comment. spot on

Kind of. Except that stupid people do smart shit all the time.

e.g. "would an idiot breathe?" "yes." "not doing it."

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No, it just shows that the advice could be improved and made more precise. That's not a useless thing to do.

Literally every thing someone says can be made more precise, we don't do it though because when you say something there's implications too. Like if I said "Don't punch someone in the face, it's rude" you would probably know that what I don't mean is if you're punching someone for some kind of greater good like stopping a criminal, or if punching someone in the face is the only way to save them because someone has a gun to your head and made you do it. My point is that there's exceptions to everything, but that doesn't necessitate being extremely specific. Not to mention it's impossible to think up every situation that could possibly happen and impractical to attempt to do so unless you're writing a handbook but even then you still can't think of everything.

In some cases, yes, clarification is in order but when it comes to something that's painfully obvious what is meant like this quote, we don't need pedants critiquing every little word and its literal meaning.

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Lol telling someone to not punch people in the face isn't useful advice?

That's not what I was referring to. I was talking about the Dwight thing. Try to think a little.

Try to think a little

Maybe you should take your own advice in regards to what the Dwight thing is referring to then.

Nope, it's just some pretty shitty advice.

I mean it's basically just "Don't do stupid things"

No, those are different statements.

To that I always answer:

Would an idiot take this advice literally? Yes, so don’t do that

Yeah I always thought it was hilarious because that maxim doesn't really work.

Reddit must be the most pedantic place on the entire internet.

Gotta reap that oneupmanship karma somehow

Gamefaqs bra. Place has been a pedantic shit hole for 15+ years

Try Slashdot

They do breathe but flip it around, ask yourself if you should stop breathing because idiots breathe. Then ask the follow up - would an idiot stop breathing to satiate pedantic internet nerds? Then don’t stop breathing.

Actually I think it's pretty shitty.

Idiots eat, and drink water, go to the bathroom, etc. Now those are off your list.

Confidence.... it’s the food of the wise man, but the liquor of the fool

I'm looking forward to getting to know you, Vikram

I’ve kinda always been sad that we never got to know Vikram better :(

Who's Vikram?

Guy from my improv class

No he's from the second job Michael had.

I thought he was at improv?

No, he was definitely an employee at the call center where Michael worked. He also was recruited by Michael when he started his own paper company.

I was a surgeon back home, you know

I wonder what I would've been back home

But... This is your home.

Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer.

Ooooh I like this

Explains why people get it when they drink

That's a great quote.

Honestly, should I watch this show? I’m trying to wean myself off TV and I’ve done a pretty good job, but everyone says The Office a d IASP are a must watch. The number seasons look daunting, but the last show I watched, Parks and Rec, I blazed through in a month...which is my whole problem. These quotes from Dwight are pushing me towards a yes though.

Definitely yes. Watch 1-2 a night and you'll get to enjoy the ride for quite a while!

The Office is a fantastic show! - You should definitely watch it!

Would an idiot live?

Time to die boys

I think the same but then i remember that I'm an idiot

Easy, then just ask yourself: would you do it? And if yes, then don't do it.

Oh no, we've got a paradox.

Ya know... I love The Office quotes, especially Dwight’s. But just reading this one helped me out with a big decision, and I’m glad I came across this. So thanks internet stranger!

You're welcome. (But remember not to take other advice from Dwight too often.... This is the anomalous bit of good advice from him.)

This is solid advice, I’m going to adopt this for everything I do.

EDIT: I’ve stopped breathing, help

Changed my life

I'm going to have to start living by this.

The problem with this is that I know I'm an idiot. Dammit.

Haha that’s my grad quote

One of the best quotes for people with impulse control issues.

That quote is worth more the more I get older

I want to embroider this on to a pillow or something. Make it look classy, but serve as a self-fulfilling reminder

Theres a pretty good saying for guys: If you're thinking about doing something you might regret go jack off, give it twenty minutes and ask yourself if you'd still do it. It's pretty amazing how much your perspective can change afterwards.

It's pretty ~~amazing~~ concerning how much your perspective can change afterwards.

And then he stopped breathing.

Would an idiot breathe?

Gonna eat healthy, would an idiot do that? Yeah so unhealthy then.. also not.. nothing at all? Wait im not even allowed to starve?

I will add: “If I move, will I want to take this with me?”

This is my metric. I've moved every ~2 years for my adult life. I hate moving. It's turned me into a minimalist...

Also 27 and also trying to change some habits, and it’s so hard and I wish I had done this 7-10 years ago instead of only starting now. Still, hopefully can make some healthy changes before I get to 30...

My problem is, I’m not sure what I’m going to be like in 2 years. Everything I love ends up becoming a phase eventually. Yeah I still listen to my vinyl records, but not as much as I used to. I still skate from time to time but did I need to build that whole old school cruiser board I rarely use? I play my guitars, but do I need to be tying up a few hundred dollars in an item I have fun with but don’t really NEED? I have so much cool stuff but I just feel GUILTY about it all now that I only have two days on the weekend to try to make use of it.

I share a similar feeling. Granted, I have more time than most to pursue my hobbies. I'm trying, at 27, to consolidate them and really focus on two or three. I haven't had much luck so far.

Yeh always give it the 24 hour rule. If you want something, wait 24 hours. If you still want it, think about getting it. You'll be surprised though, how often that sudden impulse just vanishes and you're like "yeh maybe I don't need that £450 glass, hand crafted, 8ft bong with snoop dogg's initials on it"

Another thing that's helped me is only purchasing items that I know I can return later if I want, and always keeping the receipt. Sometimes you just can't stop yourself, so it's good to have a backup plan.

I think the best solution is stupid things in moderation. If I buy something entertaining but ultimately non-important like a video game or maybe some nice food only every once in a while, I think I'd be happy with that in two years. Don't become a zombie of /r/frugal and save every single penny making yourself miserable, but don't splurge all of your savings on stupid shit that you won't ever have a use for/that has no value in the short or long term.

And then when you dont buy that product, put the money you were going to spend in a savings account

If you're planning on financing something and are wondering how it will impact you, do the same. I've been thinking about buying a new car after my current is paid off so I've been paying what would be my new car payment into my loan to see how I'd be doing.

Have been lucky enough to inherit a ridiculously fast metabolism, but seeing pictures of my dad after he hit mid-20s, and his diet actually started showing on his body, was a good reminder that getting into bad eating habits will backfire later on (not to mention what it could be doing internally even when it's not showing externally)

Don’t tell people to eat less carbs, tell them to eat less sugar and to eat more vegetables.

There are plenty of healthy carbs and you need at least 50% of your diet to be carbs. Stopping carbs completely is not the way to be healthier.

You don't have to eat 50% of your calories as carbs.

To maintain your weight/amount of muscle if you’re an active individual you do.

If you never exercise or just walk around your dog once a week than yeah you probably don’t need to eat as much carbs.

I'm not going to sit here and debate you, but that has not been my experience, at all.

Yeah this is outdated food pyramid bullshit

I've gotten 10-20% of my calories from carbs for the last 8 years and I've never felt/looked better.

If your blend works for you, that's fine, but that much of my calories from carbs made me look and feel no bueno.

So your saying 80-90% of your calories comes from proteins and fats? Jesus, what are you eating?

Typical Day:

8am - Protein Shake

Noon - Grilled chicken salad/omelette/Shish Kebob - Whichever carry out I feel like grabbing that serves this stuff

3pm - Protein Shake if during work day, if on weekend I'll make a couple small chicken thighs and a veggie side or a small pork chop

6pm - Stir Fry/Pork Chops n Veggies/Steak n Veggies/Fish n Veggies

If I drink alcohol it's either mich ultra (2.6 carbs) or flavored club soda w/ vodka and a lemon/lime (no carbs)

I'm not saying I don't fall off of this every now and then and eat pizza or some oreos or something, but this has been my general diet since 2010. I still have fun and indulge when I'm out with friends or traveling, but when its the day-to-day I stick to my routine pretty consistently.

I used to get heart burn constantly and I was up to a little over 180 lbs with probably mid 20's % body fat and no muscle to speak of with a bloated face/belly/man boobs. I'd be lethargic after each meal and would be falling asleep at my desk without tons of caffeine.

Switched my diet up and I dropped down to the 140's over the course of a couple years without doing any exercise and then, then about 3 years ago I started weight training 4-5 days a week and my weight has been slowly increasing. I'm sitting at about 160 lbs and 11.5% body fat presently.

My point here is that there are many ways to skin the fitness cat, and what works well for one person may not be idea for another.

If you're super super active, like practicing sports for a couple hours a day, then yeah 50% of your cals from carbs is totally doable, because you're going to need lots of them to stay at maintenance.

If you're like me and you work at desk all day, and don't get exercise outside of what you put in at the gym, a low carb diet might be a better fit.

Saying X diet is the best diet is missing the point. There is no "best" diet, only what's best for the individual.

It depends of everyone build, body type, amount of exercise, type of exercise I guess.

But the average 6 foot tall adult man who weights 200lbs will have to eat a decent amount of carbs to maintain his weight, amount of muscle, athleticism.

Different diets work for different people, and multiple diets can work for the same person. The human body is great like that.

Speaking empirically, I can tell you that the worlds top physique competitors and fitness models all use low carb and carb cycling diets, so I can 100% guarantee that you can be 200lbs and shredded and follow a low carb lifestyle.

The worlds top physique competitors and fitness models can't maintain this top physique for a long period. They fix goals and a calendar for how to reach it before competitions. After competitions are done they go back to a healthier diet.

Having extremely low body fat physique doesn't make you healthier. You shouldn't recommend the average human being to follow that route.

Most carb cycle year round: 3 days high protein and fat, low carbs, then one day of high protein and carbs with low fat.

Carbs are still generally <30% of their year-round diet.

Actually, wrong. Carbs should be about 20-25% of your diet if you're active. Less, the more sedentary you are. You need just enough to support activity, but not enough to accumulate extra body fat. 50% is way more carbs than most people need unless they're crazy active.

The harder part for most people is trying to get their protein up to about 25-35% of your calories. Most people are protein deficient.

50% is what you need if you want to maintain your weight.

Like I said those carbs should be healthy, so coming from vegetables, rice (ideally brown), lentils, quinoa, buckwheat, pasta, etc

If your carbs diet is consisting of processed food (fried fries/potatoes, sauces mixed with corn syrup/sugar, etc) then yeah your body will keep staying fat.

Everyone should be a minimum active. You don’t need to be at the gym 7 times a week. Walk your dog, use your legs instead of the car all the time, carry your groceries.

The quantity of what you eat matters more than the % of fat/carbs/protein. Ideally an active person will eat 20% fat, 30% protein, 50% carbs. An active person like I said, if you just sit on your ass all day then you don’t need to eat much.

Eating chicken is the easiest way to get your protein level up, people always recommend protein whey/supplements/etc but if you can’t even cook chicken properly than what’s the point. You will get back to a shit diet. You are what you eat. Improving the cooking skills is key.

when did pasta become a healthy carb

Pasta is alright as soon as you don’t abuse it. Don’t eat pasta more than twice a week.

I know an Italian personal trainer who used to compete in IFBB who goes to his mama every Monday to get his refuel of macaroni, lasagna, etc.

It’s ok to eat pasta once in a while, just don’t live on it and don’t abuse the sauces that you buy at the supermarket which are filled with atrocious shit. Make the sauce yourself from the simple ingredients.

I'm sorry, but in my experience (I own a gym and run a nutrition program for my members) 50% is WAY too much, again, unless you're crazy active. My members ARE active but aren't ridiculously active.

When they get on a diet with 35% protein, 40% fat and %25 carbs to start, body fat usually starts to fall off at a decent but not too fast pace. Muscle increases. If they feel low energy after 2 weeks, we raise carbs (rarely happens). If they are good, we try dropping the carbs slightly after 2 weeks. Finding the balance is key.

And while I agree there are "good" carbs (low glycemic) and "bad carbs" (high glycemic), with this formula, you can have a mix of both and still lose body fat. All this while having daily calories around 1600-1800 for women and 1700-2000 for men.

Been running this program for years and it never fails as long as the person sticks to the formula. At 50% they'd be keeping extra body fat.

Try it out, I'm sure you'll be surprised.

It depends of the amount of calories you need to reach. I have to eat way more than your clients for example.

It depends of the body type, build of the person, type of training they do, type of exercises. But if you want to build muscle and maintain enough energy to keep the weights going up you need enough carbs.

If you want to do body building and have a low body fat and show the big veins then yeah drop your carbs to 25-30%.

You are just full of misinformation... It does not depend on body type. You will not get anywhere close to a bodybuilder level eating 20-25% carbs.

From what you just said, you sound like someone who just is naturally skinny and have a hard time putting on weight so you're applying YOUR specific situation to the general population.

Again, did you read that I do this for a living and have worked with many clients doing just this? What do you do? How many people have you put on your nutrition plan and monitored? I'm guessing zero.

Please get off this thread and stop giving people bad advice.

Alright buddy, here we fucking go. You want to be the teacher with your little business, let's go.

It does not depend on body type

  • Yes it does, A tall person who is over 200lbs will not have the same diet and amount of calories than a person who is 5'7 and 130lbs.
  • People's bodies process food differently too: Ectomorph, Endomorph, Mesomorph, ever heard about that?
  • We're all different because of our DNA in the first place.
  • Not everyone can become super athletic, some people naturally have better predispositions.
  • Your age is a big factor, when you get older it impacts your digestive system.

you sound like someone who just is naturally skinny

I'm over 200lbs and over 6 foot tall.

how many people have you put on your nutrition plan and monitored?

You condescending asshole lol. How big is your head Mr. Mackey?

  • How many clients keep the diet you recommend them?
  • How many are able to train on their own after the few sessions they spent with you?
  • How many are giving up and never coming back to the gym?
  • How many are getting injured after following your workouts?

I can be passive aggressive too buddy, if that's what you're into.

I don't care that you do it for a living, some of my friends do the same job and their approach is not always right. Most personal trainers out there don't want their clients to do well on their own simply because it makes them loose business. PTs are great motivators and get their clients results, but for how long can their clients maintain it? Is it really worth it to pay $100/session over several weeks program? Are they able to keep a stable body weight after they stop the sessions? Did they learn correctly the form of the exercises? How often do you recommend them supplements?

You don't need to go to the gym if you're the average joe who just want to burn some fat but the gym business/industry is pushing everyone towards that $$$. There are plenty of sports available who will be cheaper and as efficient or even more efficient in the long term. If you want to develop strength/muscles then go to the gym and pay a good trainer to learn the proper form of exercises. But you will get stronger only on your own by disciplining yourself.

You still didn't answer how many people you've put on and monitored on your "high carb diet". Once you do, let me know how many gained weight.

I'm not surprised you're upset, I'd be pissed if I had no idea or experience with what I was talking about.

Fairly certain you lost everyone when you said pasta was a good carb anyway.

It seriously blows my mind how confidently you spew this terrible information.

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Fructose is not processed the same way as other sugars, and the effect of carbs on your body has a lot to do with how they are consumed, e.g. bundled up in fiber like fruit vs processed like fruit juice. There's a lot more to our metabolism than what we learn in high school. Chronic insulin spikes are a legit problem.

Also, technically fiber is considered "carbs", but is totally different nutritionally from other carbs, so people who don't know a lot about nutrition and are told "carbs are carbs" will be misled by labels.

Fructose is turned in to glucose and fat in the liver.

Glucose is sometimes also called "blood sugar" as it is created when your body breaks down carbohydrates both sugars and starches.

Milk, fruit and cane sugar are all simple carbs.

Potatoes are complex carbs, they start breaking down in your mouth as opposed to your gut like simple carbs. Starch is converted in to maltose, a simple carb.

Fiber is the only carb that doesn't break down in to glucose, instead keeping its form, helping bowel movements.

Not to be a dick but I already mentioned the blood sugar spike but on the end carbs are carbs and all except fiber turn to glucose, glycogen or that fat one that I can't remember.

In scientific literature, the term "carbohydrate" has many synonyms, like "sugar" (in the broad sense), "saccharide", "ose".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbohydrate?wprov=sfla1

Again you may mean something else but all you said was that stuff is more complicated and not really explain anything so I can't really know. If you can show me some literature of what you want to convey, or spend some time typing it out I'd be interested in reading it.

Edit: I do get rhat some food is more nutritious but that has nothing to do with carbs. Like for instance eating stake is different from taking protein since the stake has more than just protein. But the individual pieces of nutrition would be the same. And webmd and Wikipedia seem to agree with me.

If you eat less but simple carbs as opposed to eating more but complex carbs I don't think it will make any difference to how your body reacts to it. I would even imagine the simple carbs were preferred before the mid of the 20th century because food was wasn't a sure thing.

Really I think it comes to energy density when it comes to this. Vegetables have less energy density and hence you would need more of them to fill you up, meaning more time to get digested which means thinking your full for longer. Eating simple sugars but maintaining total energy the same should lead to the same final product.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be a dick if it came across that way. I don't have a lot of time to hunt down the original research papers right now, but Robert Lustig is probably the most prominent person making the argument that sugar is different from other carbs. He's mostly working off of other people's research and his own clinical observations IIRC.

Here's his website: [http://sugarscience.ucsf.edu/robert-h.-lustig.html#.Wt58gy-ZNL4]

A lecture where he breaks down the argument: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM)

This was the NYT article that led me down this rabbit hole a few years ago:(https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magazine/mag-17Sugar-t.html)

Like with any dietary theory, it could all be wrong. But there's definitely a compelling case out there that sugar(fructose specifically) is metabolized differently and plays a big role in metabolic diseases. It sounded like bullshit to me too at first, but I've since become a convert.

there is nothing wrong with sugar consumption

True but only if you eat some with moderation. Ideally a healthy human being will only get sugar from natural sources: fruits 🍎 🍉 🍌.

Nowadays the average human being eats 10 times more sugar per year than human beings were eating 50 years ago. The American health industry is fucked because they put corn syrup or other cheap sugar solutions in every thing they wholesale.

You can eat sugar, chocolate, etc but people usually don’t follow the concept o eating with moderation and the population of diabetic people is alarmingly increasing. There is a reason why, there is shit quality sugar in everything nowadays because it’s cheaper to process food with it.

Yes there is simple and complex carbs, you need to mix both in your meals. Greens, rice (brown ideally), sweet potatoe, quinoa, buckwheat, lentils, chickpeas, oats, etc. I’m not going to go in meal preparation details but ideally you want to eat of everything which hasn’t been processed with other industrial ingredients like cheap corn syrup, emulsifiers, palm oil, etc.

Yeah. My philosophy is put the money i would spend on that product, in my savings or retirement account, and put the product in my cart, then when i get my next paycheck, think about whether you should buy it.

lol I bought a Nintendo Switch with all the games and accessories and had instaregret like a week later. I can totally 'afford' it but.. realistically I should be saving up to buy a house not buy bullshit I barely ever play with.

There's one thing I realized about life itself. Playing it safe is too boring. We only have one life, one chance. This life isn't a "practice life". If you want something, go on and get it, enjoy it. When I'm old and on my death bed, I want to look back and remember the crazy adventures and memories of things I did outside of the norm or things I did by not playing it safe. Money comes and goes but the time to experience certain things will never come back. So if someone wanted to spend some money on some stupid stuff, my advice would be, go, get it and enjoy it.

Spending money on actual life experiences, like traveling or skydiving, are one thing, but spending money on stuff is another. Experiences tend to bring lasting happiness, whereas chasing the latest bit of gear means grinding on the hedonic treadmill.

I have far, far too many expensive hobbies. Shit

I moved me and my gf across the country in a hatchback impreza 3 years ago. We're moving in 2 weeks and we need a fucking moving truck.

We love going to thrift stores. Yesterday I dropped off a car load of stuff we had bought there, most with the stickers still on. Car load ranged from clothes (tagless and washed), DVDs, light furniture, and a telescope.

I realistically just rented all that shit. I don't regret most of those purchases except the telescope.

Carbs aren't bad for you, unless you're talking about the carbs in something like a donut.

We bought Guitar Hero last week so I'm not totally sure about how to answer this. It all depends on if 2 years is long enough for us to beat EXPERT on Co-op.

Maybe that beanie that says Cocaine in Coca Cola font from the punk rock flea market wasn't the best idea...

I read this as I sit in the lobby of a Pizza Hut waiting for my pizza 😔

Use the wish list feature of websites. Whenever you want something, put it there and decide on the actual purchase after the initial itch wears off.

Buy with one click is evil, especially when you got better places you can put that money into (you're 20, almost always there's a better place :)

ok but how do you make salads taste good

small amounts of dressing and bits of bacon

I'm doing a year sober (started Boxing day) to try to kill my drinking habits, I was very much a binge drinker, and it was dangerously close to alcoholism at only 25... because I'd been doing it that long it was becoming a habit, and making me ill, and that scared me. Until now I thought 'I'm young I should enjoy life'... now I'm thinking 'shit, I can actually enjoy life without drinking every bit of alcohol offered.

I'm not saying people shouldn't drink but I think people drink a lot more than is healthy, and it's such a money drain!! I wish I hadn't spent so much of my paycheck on not wanting to be sober.

yea its honestly a habitual thing. I got used to having a few drinks on fridays regardless of whatever i was doing (video games + booze are a great combo for a night in) and it just became a routine. Working on breaking that now.

Also alcohol has a shitton of calories so less drinking = more weight loss

I don't know... I bought a mini teepee for my chihuahua 3 years ago and it's still the best purchase I've ever made lol

Amen to this. Adding DO NOT SMOKE. QUIT NOW. Whatever it takes, quit! Source: I’m a 40 something, otherwise fit and healthy, clean eating former smoker who just finished breast cancer surgery / treatment, which absolutely sucked. (And I’m one of the lucky ones - it was treatable.)

Carbs aren't this evil thing everyone makes them out to be. You need carbohydrates to fuel your body and brain. By all means try to get complex carbs, e.g wholemeal, wholewheat etc as it gives a slower release of energy and is generally better for you. But cutting carbs, unless you're prepping for a bodybuilding contest and need every last edge - which isn't actually healthy, I see no reason for low carbs

Should I buy this $1,500 drone + VR headset?...

Will I regret it in two years? Hell no. Can I afford it though? Hell no. :(

I just turned 27 too and my eating habits are catching up to me. I don't eat that terribly, rarely will I eat sweets or drink pop. My problem is eating greasy foods or eating decently, but over-eating.

My wife and I recently started really buckling down on the amount we eat and what we are eating. It's only been 3 weeks but I feel so much better.

I'm not even sure when my body stopped letting me do whatever I wanted without gaining an ounce of fat but it happened suddenly.

I just turned 27 too and my eating habits are catching up to me.

it happened suddenly

Me. Too.

I ignored it for 3 years, thinking it was an anomaly.

Now, while I'm not suddenly obese, I'm definitely a bit pudgier than I want to be and I CANNOT SHIFT this weight. All the effort I've been putting in has succeeded only in slowing/stopping the gain, losing has been beyond my reach for several months. I'm going to need to get more aggressive, and it SUCKS.

If you're struggling to shift weight a few things that might help are; (1) zero calorie noodles, use these as a replacement for things like rice, potatoes etc that you'd normally have with your meal. You'd be easily lowering your intake by 300/400 calories just through this. (2) zero sugar jelly if you struggle with sugar cravings which can lead to over eating. A pot has under 10 calories, tastes sweet and helps with appeasing your sweet tooth. (3) then more obvious things, which I'm sure you've heard, like drinking a lot of water, which is not only healthy but also makes you feel more full, and chewing gum after dinner if, again, you struggle with temptations to snack on something sweet after a meal

I have no issue with cravings, I just have a lot of life conditions to work around that complicate things and make it harder. Postprandial hypoglycemia issues (possibly as a result of previously disordered eating), IBS, and my job, which:

-limits my opportunities to go to the bathroom to once every 2-3 hours maximum (water intake needs to be managed carefully, PLUS I can't eat anything that is likely to irritate the IBS situation for that same reason.)

-requires that I do customer service in a very small booth, sitting close to the customer, meaning I and my breath need to smell good at all times (makes keto a challenge, limits foods I would otherwise be using)

-has only a VERY tiny area to eat lunch, with a refrigerator and a microwave but no sink. In practice, I have a maximum of 20 minutes to prepare my food and eat it, often with other people competing for the microwave and seats.

-takes up most of my time. I CAN manage to find time to cook if it's something really quick and simple, but anything that takes more than 30 minutes or so is a no-go, unless it can be prepared on a day off and SAFELY stored for at least 5-6 days

I keep trying things... keto, IF, meal replacement (huel) but basically everything runs afoul of one of these complications. (Huel was awesome, but it made me have to pee too often, unfortunately. I really loved it, so this was heartbreaking.)

I'm pretty much limited to just following CICO and backing my calories down until I lose weight, and then spreading those out over the day as evenly as possible, which is tiresome and uncomfortable, but I don't have much choice.

Also realize if you do want that thing... Can you wait until you're in a better fiscal position. Is it something you can make a goal for later like in your 30s or 40s?

And I too often think "I need to buy this before I change my mind..."

The other side of the money thing is, for those of us that grew up poor, don't NOT buy things that will save you money/time/effort/health in the long run. You should also think, "will I get annoyed at NOT having spent this money in two years?"

It took me two months to justify treating myself to a new pair of $100 shoes but I figured it is something I will use for a very long time

Start the gym if you haven't. Started in February at 30, and it was so hard to get into the routine.

Things hurt now and hurt more everyday. Feels amazing to lift and stretch

"Will I get annoyed at having this in 2 years?" - works for marriage too ;)

I would go further with the annoyed in two years thing. The better question would be “Will I even remember I have this in two years?”.

That question has saved me so many times from making idiotic purchases.

So,basically stay away from.pool tables, foos ball tables, and exercise equipment.

Thoughts on domestic travel in the US?

traveling isn't really a "thing" and can be rewarding. Wasting money is more for buying redundant stuff that is neat but won't actually contribute that much.

e.g. i built a PC and kept looking for more stuff to get for it, finally realized it's perfect as is and I should stop throwing money at it

Spent $500 on subs in 2015 when I got my tax return and they still bring me happiness so I'm gonna chalk that one up as not the smartest purchase but not a total waste.

As a 20 year old your second paragraph about the money thing had me thinking. I’ve always wanted a motorcycle and I’ve been saving for months now and I’m almost at my goal! Your paragraph kinda made me second guess just now... I know I’ll love it and it’ll be fun as hell but I wonder if I should go through with it...

Bought a sex toy impulsively yesterday because I was horny out of my mind... Now I gotta make it last 2 years!

Shopping rules!! Theae are mine. Make a list or plan before heading in and don't get distracted. Allow yourself one splurge if you have the money. If in doubt, don't get it. And similar to yours, do I really this? It's hard!

On my side, I just wait before to buy something (unless I really need it now for immediate purpose). This way, if I still want it many weeks (or months) later, or if I found multiple times that the object would have been usefull, then I buy it, else, I didn't need it and save money this way.

My question isn't "annoyed" but more "will I be trying to sell/throw it out in a year or 2?"

If I had asked that about the super nice recliner I have, I wouldn't have bought it.

Why less carbs, why don't people ever talk about less fat

I only waste money on food, like eating out and shit. Does that really add up quickly?

Just starting writing down how much you spend on eating out and decide then, but yeah, you can save a lot of money by making your own food. Depends on where you live, you can probably make dinner for the whole week for the price of eating out twice.

"will i get annoyed at having this in 2 years?"

Thanks man, I will use this from now on.

I remember when I was like 14-16 yrs old I used to get really anxious for random stuff. Then I came across this saying/quote/sentence: "If it doesn't matter a year from now, it doesn't matter now". Of course you have to be kinda picky about when to apply it, but it really did help me calm down for exams and presentations and such which in turn helped me better focus on the work at hand.

This fits very well for video games. More explicitely, more expensive skins for guns or heroes.

If you drink soda, definitely cut that out or swap for diet. I dropped tons of pounds after that. Also, check the ingredients for added sugar. They sneak it into everything these days.

Source: I went down from being obese at 200+ to normal weight at 155

If you need any help, feel free to PM me.

On the take care of yourself note: Get healthy why you can in your 20s. Its a lot easier to lose weight/get fit when you are young, higher metabolism and are more active than it is when you are older and less active. I see a lot of young people ruining their bodies by the time they hit 25 and its a hell of a lot harder to unruin it the older you get.

Defined stupid shit.

Yeah, I feel that. I knew I had a problem with food for a long time, started and stopped losing weight more times than I can count. I finally started seeing a doctor and I'm down 38lbs. It's not much considering I have 205 to lose to get to my goal. But I am slowly feeling better and people are noticing a difference in my face. I have a long way to go, but it's good that people are noticing my efforts.

Fuck you. I bought a sweet staff at the Renaissance Festival and no ragrets.

I feel you on the bad habits, but you take that back about my stupid shit!

broke my own rule yesterday and bought a NAS :|

I agree with the first one, but the second is a bit iffy.

I mean Im not a fan of "impulse" purchases but if you can afford it and it will make you happy to a period proportional to its cost, then why not!

With that said, whatever you do buy make sure its something that will keep its value. something you can sell in a few years. Always sell items, dont throw away, or horde. Ebay is really easy to use if you dont care too much about maximising your money.

But what if I want an LED wifi light shiner or a Lexus

you'll def need those in 2 years bro

Lol, why less carbs? You should be concerned with fat.

More so, calories. Fats are healthy, of course not counting trans and saturated, though. If he wants to lose weight, eating less calories than your maintenance is what will do it, regardless of fat intake

Falling out of the habit of exercising regularly. It's such an easier habit to maintain than it is to adopt in one's 30s.

Edit: This comment isn't about weight loss. It's about exercise. You can all stop talking about limiting calories. I've literally been there and done that. Looking thin is not the only component to having a healthy body.

The solution is finding something you actually like to do. If running on a treadmill at Planet Fitness sounds like the literal manifestation of hell on earth, then maybe go wakeboarding a few times a week or lift weights or ride a bike or do yoga or fucking jazzercise. Whatever makes you happy and shows you progress in yourself over time is what you should do for exercise.

And for anyone who's a lazy piece of shit like me who doesn't like just about any exercise: find fun things to associate with exercise. I have a favorite show on Netflix ive been meaning to watch, so I only let myself watch that show while exercising. Gets me a good half hour session of treadmill or elliptical every day, and when you're watching an intense show the time flies. I call in Netflix and 'mill.

This is so underrated. I hate cardio. Pick things up and put them down? Sure. All day. Cardio? Fuck nope. I wouldn’t be caught dead moving any faster than a tortoise. But I will sit on the stationary bike for an hour or more just bing watching Netflix.

I too do this on the stationary bike because I found it to be best for watching Netflix, since your eyes don’t move up and down as much as they do on the treadmill or elliptical. Quick tip for anyone with lazy eye muscles like me!

I’d like to blame my lazy eye muscles. But I’m pretty sure it’s because I run like a 5-legged gazelle through a swamp of molasses.

I have a rowing machine I use while watching shows. Not as stable as a stationary bike but nowhere near as jarring to watch while on a treadmill or elliptical. Bonus: I actually enjoy rowing.

How? I want to do that but I can’t figure out a good way to do it without getting motion sickness.

Not sure I can give you any advice there. I've never suffered from motion sickness in any activity (sports, flying, VR, etc). If you really want to do cardio while watching TV, then you might have to consign yourself to a stationary bike. Is the screen that you're watching media on elevated and in front of your row machine? I feel like that would cause the least amount of motion disparity.

Try searching for tips to prevent motion sickness. I know women and individuals in certain medications are more susceptible to it.

My Mom gets sick, gets headaches, has allergies, and suffers from motion sickness. I, fortunately, inherited none of that noise.

I used to play a whole batteries worth of heartstone, so like a hour or so of cardio

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Was a fresh battery and minimal brightness.

You can also bike outside. It's very nice

Sounds hard to binge watch tv though and that’s my only tv time.

I’m crying Netflix and ‘Mill that’s hilarious

Hello internet friend, You're probably just trying to get a yuck out of reddit by calling yourself a lazy piece of shit, but you're not doing yourself any favors. Give yourself a pat on the back for finding a way to engage in a healthy activity - that's not lazy at all!

Agreed. It doesn't take long for thoughts like that to become beliefs if left unchecked.

As a former lazy piece of shit, it's really hard to stop believing that "I'd exercise more, but what's the point. I'm a lazy piece of shit anyway."

I feel guilty watching football on a perfectly nice day, so I do 30-90 minutes of jumping jacks, running in place, curls, pushups, situps, etc. I like to fool myself into believing if I push harder my team will push harder, lol jackass.

My roommate and I had a rule that whoever won the last round of Mortal Kombat / Injustice/ Smash Bros would play the next round cycling on the Recumbent bicycle. We also had a rule that you needed to run in place while playing katamari.

And the best I've ever done with cardio was with a mix of Zombies Run! 5K and Pokemon Go. Actually got me up to running a 5k every morning for while there (dopped the ball when I moved to an area where I no longer had pokestops within 5K of my home)

THIS. I lost so much weight by doing jumping jacks in front of the TV to pass the time. I don't mind exercise I just get so bored, and headphones never stay in properly.

Hilarious. Netflix n ‘mill. Lmao

I used to hate cardio and endurance training.

Now I do erg work while listening to D&D podcasts as a warm-up before lifting and it's fucking amazing.

Temptation bundling. Nice.

I'll concur with this. hate exercising, love video games. Started playing games while on an exercise bike (hands aren't doing anything anyways). been doing it 5x a week for months and have dropped 40 lbs so far.

Oooh that’s a really great idea! I actually love exercising, in fact I find I don’t have enough time for all the things I’d like to do, but I have friends who ask me how to get into exercise because they can’t stand all the forms they’ve tried! This is a great tip.

You, my lazy friend are a Netflix and ‘Mill genius!

Someone give this lazy piece of shit some gold

I read Manga or watch Anime while riding my exercise bike.

Are you really a lazy piece of shit if you’re actively applying yourself?

Exactly. I hate most things out doors related. I got a Vive to combat this. It's expensive, but damn if it isn't cardio doing VR parkour

That would be a great name for a gym, just put TVs everywhere

Mate, if you're exercising daily, you're definitely far from lazy. You're doing way better than most people are.

Congrats :)

That's so smart! I like to Duolingo while I'm cycling at the gym

The phrase “Netflix and ‘mill” is enough to make me want to restart my fitness journey. Take this upvote.

I spend way too much time laying around watching YouTube videos so I'm trying to get into the habit of watching videos while on a treadmill or eliptical. You dont have to kill yourself either. Even going at the speed of a leisurely stroll you're still moving more than you would be before.

I watch Netflix while exercising. My exercise is longer when I reach my daily goal before I reach the end of the episode I'm watching. I keep going until the credits roll.

WiiFit is pretty good too.

I've been thinking about getting a bike or threadmil so I can train at home while Netflixing.

Even better now that you can download episodes and can bring it to a gym

I am partial to long slow runs outside with audio books.

I call in Netflix and 'mill.

Aww Hell Yeas...

Incentive bundling!! A la Freakonomics

you should make that a shirt honestly

This works to a certain point, but then sometimes Netflix/that show becomes too ingrained in the activity. I don't do this anymore because I'd actually feel anxious when I'd be watching the show like I need to be running/getting my heart up so my body was trying to help me lol.

Definitely. I putzed around in my 20s and got fat. I took up Jogging for awhile in my very early 30s, but I hated it and it didn't stick. Still fat.

I need to start walking regularly or something. Anything at this point.

I absolutely hate jogging as well but I love riding my bike. Maybe you could try it?

The great thing about riding a bike is that you can take a break while still moving!

Do you have tips for a person who should be able to ride a bicycle easily by his age but still can't?

First obtain or borrow a bicycle, then remove the pedals (Remember, the left one is reverse threaded!), then lower the saddle so your feet can be flat on the ground. You now have a balance bike. Spend some time riding around by kicking off the ground to propel yourself, and you will start to learn how to balance. Once you feel ready, put the pedals back on and give it a try. Once you have that down, raise the saddle higher. It is generally at the correct height when you have a very slight bend in your knee at the lowest point of the pedal stroke, which usually means you can just touch the ground with tippy toes.

You should be able to pick it up easily regardless of your age, most people I know who picked up cycling in their 30s ++ took only at most maybe 3 days of practice to get the hang of it.

If not, there's always the exercise bike. Hahhah

I'll tell you the words that got me off the ground with it.

Jump on and pedal like hell!

Depends - is it because you never learned to ride a bike so you need practice balancing, because there's a physical limitation in the way (e.g. back problems), or because you don't have the physical endurance to pedal for a sustained period?

Actually I just only need practice balancing. I dunno, I tried it for two days straight with the help of friends but it's difficult for me to even balance myself while moving forward, so it's pretty discouraging.

This comment has basically the advice I was about to give. That's how I learned - starting with training wheels, then pushing myself along with my feet to learn to balance, then slowly gaining the courage to use the pedals. I'll add that the faster you're going, the easier it is to stay upright, but obviously you don't want to fall when going very fast, so you just gotta find the balance you're comfortable with, then keep pushing that a bit every time. Trying the balance bike thing on grass and going slightly downhill may help.

Also, what kind of bike are you using? I wouln't recommend learning on a road bike, which usually has the handlebars lower than and far away from the seat.

I'd expect that like with many things, the older you are, the longer it'll take to learn, but that just means you need to keep at it!

I will save these comments and go on from there. I guess I have a new interest now. Thanks yall + /u/Lyscii

You are welcome. It's always great seeing new people get interested in cycling. Feel free to message me if you have questions as you go along.

I mean, it's like riding a bicycle. Once you've got it you just remember. What exactly is the challenge? If you're trying to ride something with an extremely sporty frame which causes you to have to lean forward a lot I guess that might be a little more difficult than something made more for cruising. It just takes some time actually doing it and then you can go no handed. I can actually stand on the pedals and go no handed at the same time. Soon I'll be bike surfing.

It's easier to balance when you have some speed than when moving slowly.

I learned how to ride a bike late too but when I finally realized that critical piece of information everything clicked. It's scary to go fast when you still aren't confident in using the bike but trying to go slow because it feels safer just makes it hard to balance. Put on some knee and elbow pads and accept that you might fall, but once you start pedaling you'll be surprised how easy it is.

Oh and turn by leaning, not by actually turning the handlebars.

I never learned to ride one!

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The real LPT is always in the comments

I’m 22, also still haven’t learned. Never forgot how to fall though.

wow you're in for a treat then, have fun

Ayyyye! Another person with an incomplete childhood!

:)

:(

Sadness Bros! Didn't learn to swim either.

Lived out in the country. No pools. No swimming holes. No other kids living within bike ride distance!

I did learn to swim though. Sorry Sadness Bro.

You really should learn to swim. Whether or not you care to do it regularly in your free time is one thing, but swimming is a skill that's easy to learn and can save yours or someone else's life. My mind gets blown when I read about someone drowning because they fell into water and didn't know how to swim.

I was just going to say this - get a bike ride in!

What does your bike think about you pimping them out?

Rock Climbing has really made it fun for me to work out. I also find that doing other non-rock climbing exercises easier because I know it will help me climb better.

Disc golf...I know it sounds weird I thought it was too at first but it is so fun and doesn't require you to be in shape at all but it does get you in shape with all the walking and throwin, slowly but surely

I was going to suggest this as well. Check out discgolfcoursereview.com or the discgolfcoursereview app and you can easily find courses near you with their maps. Innova and discraft brands have cheap starter packs where you can get a putter, midrange (similar to a wedge in golf) and a driver for around $25-30. Most courses are free. Also check out r/discgolf for tips and advice.

Or just golf.

I love golf too but I think as far as getting in shape disc golf is a little more effective and much more cost efficient but on the bad side a lot of places don't have a disc golf course or very little variation of courses

Try hiking or trail running if you're in an area that has wilderness. Even most large cities have some awesome trails within a reasonable distance.

Being in the woods, having to watch your step and focus more makes it much more fun.

The slight squishiness of any surface that's not cement/asphalt (e.g. dirt, crushed limestone) also makes a lot of difference in terms of foot comfort.

Yea, it’s a lot easier on your knees and hips.

Yeah, there's a trail near my house. I used to like going walk it, but it's kinda short. Even so, waking to the end and back would be better than what I'm doing now.

Swimming is a great full body workout and it’s low stress on joints. I used to be on the team in high school and dropped 20 pounds in the first 2 months, granted that was a lot more intense but it’s a good start to get in shape. I haven’t been to a pool in years and it shows.

Mountain biking is the shit

Even if you're in shape, mountain biking will make you feel seriously out of shape. When I first started I used to puke once or twice throughout a 4 hour ride.

Yeah it will whip you into shape and you'll still love the sport.

I pay for an expensive gym ($180) for a family of four, but it has everything. Huge rock wall, basketball courts, great yoga studio, pool for laps, pool for family, and child care for up to 2 hours a day. It’s worth every penny, we’ve had memberships for years at cheaper places but just ended up paying for something we didn’t use. Being able to just jump around to different things and keep it fresh is huge.

Sounds like Chelsea Piers

Walking doesn’t get as much credit as it should. It’s low impact, easy to start, hopefully not something that you dread (who doesn’t like taking a stroll in nature?), and sustainable as you age. Not to mention the health benefits.

I'm not gonna lie, I love lifting weights. I love knowing that I could lift a person, flip a huge ass tire, squat my own body weight. I love lifting.

Start skipping rope! Real relaxing to listen to a few songs and skip for 10 minutes a day.

I was waiting for the happy ending but then I realized it was open ended.

Hiking. Go explore a new place. Clears your head too

You can always start playing a 'vr' game on your phone like "pokemon go" if you want to start walking more.

The problem with jogging is that it takes about two months of running 5k two or three times a week before it gets fun. Most people give up on it before then. It’s hard to keep the motivation up when it feels pointless and you only taste blood while your lungs are aching.

Also threadmills are hell on earth when you can fuck around in nature.

How about Brazilian jiu jitsu, or some other martial art?

Sadly, I have no interest in martial arts. 8 get this suggestion all the time.

If you haven't tried it before, I highly suggest giving it a shot for a month or so first! But if you have tried it before, then I totally understand. Martial arts aren't for everyone.

Try mma, boxing or karate. Or just lift weights, or yoga. Try everything until something is fun, haha.

Martial arts and weights don't grab me. I've been meaning to try Yoga.

Hey if all else fails, you could get a dog like my coworker did a few months ago. He's been walking an hour a day

try boxercising, invest in a cheap pair of 1 pound weights and 5 pound leg weights. do 8 rounds till you build up endurance shadowboxing and a few knee ups muai thai style, do this with a mirror for your opponent and crank up the tunes. my usual system for this is 12 rounds of 100 punches and mix up the knee strikes with the legweights. your core will be screaming by the 10th round and mix up varations of combination strikes mixed with knee strikes. best cardio ever, and get aggressive!

I gave up cola in my late 20s as well as alcohol.

My 30s i started to add a few pounds and generally ate a poor diet. I wasnt fat but became a little overweight. I smoked ciggs.

My 40s i saw the light and after not having a kitchen for 6 months gained a stone in weight. I decided that change was needed. I overhauled my diet compleatly to healthy eating. I quit smoking and maintained my lack of interest in alcohol. I started walking alot more than taking the car. Its never too late to make changes for the better.

Im just passed mid 40s and feel the benefits of clean living. Im glad i took the effort to make changes but it does take commitment and unfortunately alot of disscipline as it takes time to prepare so you have to reorganise your priorities to focus on your own health.

Walking is so underated! Meditative af. Bring a banana or something, if you get tired, sit down on a bench and watch the world run around.

If you get a dog, you will be forced to walk. A perfect time to listen to audio books

I never learned to drive so I walk everywhere by necessity. I reckon that's what keeps me thin.

I wake up every morning and run. I hate it, and absolutely dread having to do it. But when you finish its the best feeling ever. You feel a sense of accomplishment. Makes it all worth it.

I just don't enjoy exercise. But every day it's not raining, I go for a walk on my lunch hour and read a book on my phone. I might not get thin, but at least it might stave off a heart attack.

I hate exercising. So I decided that I wanted to maximize the number of calories I burned while exercising in a given time frame. That way I could maximize my time spent doing stuff I enjoy.

I took up rowing, because it seemed to yield the best full-body workout and better calorie burning than running or cycling. It’s also something with metrics that can be easily tracked for progress charting (distance, time, calories, watts), and it’s not hard on the joints (running was always pretty brutal on my joints).

I’ve been doing it a while now, and I still don’t really enjoy it (I do high intensity intervals, and I usually feel like I’m gonna die by the end of my workout, which isn’t fun in the moment, but it’s satisfying afterward), but I enjoy seeing progress in my pace, my max output, and my endurance. Progress is my motivator.

You don’t necessarily need to find an exercise regime you enjoy. You just need to find something you can be motivated to do, and make it a habit.

Try rock climbing. You don’t even realize you’re working out. It’s like going to a playground to solve puzzles with your body.

Try going to your local YMCA is you live in the states and using the pool. Swimming and weight lifting are the only bearable forms of exercise for me.

Try /r/c25k I'm doing it at the moment. Never been a runner before, but the c25k program really works.

I did it. I've run 2 5ks. It's been a few years though. Definitely works.

not exercising doesn't make you fat; overeating does. Caloric deficit. Eat less --> lose weight

I went from 145 in early days to 160-175 then to 200 at sit down jobs. I dropped from there to 120 twice in half a year both times. Both times were from unintentionally cutting out sugar by just eating either canned veggies or a tvdinner that was all veggies. Have read after the fact that ur body forces u to eat more calories than u burn when exercising because it not only has to replenish what u did use but prepare for the possibility that ur going to need to continue at that same rate so its preparing (it doesn't know what or why ur running or what from :P or for how long). Seems its all just non fiber bound sugars and non fiber bound starches (also salt/sodium does this too, easier to focus on sugar though, information overload) in all the stuff were eating that is hitting the sweetness/reward/drug/endorphin/cravings part of the brain and turning off the satiety the feeling that we are full. I tried losing weight for years; did it hardcore 2 times on accident. (went for the veggies steamed/cooked/baked/canned, not fan of raw just cause was 'easy' to eat. was having some eating troubles that made me look for ease over yummy. gained it back the first time when the first problem was resolved cause was concerned bout BMI way to low; was eating concentrated calories/sugar just for insurance. Bad idea went back to 200 in 2 months. This second time around trying to lay off sweets. Hard to do though :( .

Keep in mind you don't need exercise to lose weight. In fact I would think of exercise as completely separate from losing/gaining weight.

There was some video a while ago that did the math and it's something like one slice of pizza takes three hours of running at 70% max speed... Of course that number (or my memory) could be way off, but the point is it takes much more work to exercise to a deficit than to change your diet a little.

Try jiujitsu?

You don't need to exercise to lose weight. You need to be in a calorie deficit. Check r/loseit

I know. I lost a ton of weight in my late 20s just by counting calories. Counting calories doesn't improve my cardiovascular health. I want to stave off heart disease, not look cute shirtless.

This particular thread though is about exercising in general, being active, not losing weight per se. There are lots of skinny unhealthy people out there who could stand to move a lot more. Being fat, yes, is more about eating too many calories for the exercise you do, but exercise has a ton of benefits, not just calorie usage.

It’s easier to lose fat (the primary goal should be losing fat, not weight) by ramping up your metabolism, not by flirting with putting your body into starvation mode.

Stop being lazy

This is a misconception, your weight is not the result of a lack of exercise. It is a result of eating too much. You don't lose weight at the gym, you gain muscle.

Eat and drink less calories, and you will loose weight. Don't eat outside of meals, be conscious about what you eat, and it will go away.

Weight loss is 80% diet and 20% exercise.

I love Zumba. Seriously, if you love dancing but are terrible at dancing, give it a try.

I did this a few times with my wife. Had quite a bit of fun even though I couldn’t manage to do a single move/routine correctly.

I encourage anyone to try martial arts (specifically BJJ). Plenty of people get started past 30. It's changed my life completely and I never have to worry about exercise anymore.

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Exactly. I started at 25 and wish I started sooner. However, "the second best time to start is now". Most gyms are full of very friendly and supportive people so I'd totally encourage anyone to walk in and check it out!

It's addictive and therapeutic at the same time. Go get rid of all that stress, anger, and negative emotions by choking the fuck out of someone. You don't have time to worry about life when you got a dude on your back choking the fuck out of you too. Also helps manage ego.

Honest question, how do people with 40+ hour jobs and things to take care of at home find the time for this? I feel like I barely have the time to walk my dog...

I work 50+ hours a week (40 at a day job, 10+ at weekend job). I make time. The first thing I do when I get off work is go work out. I do the most brutal 30 minutes of exercise I can handle. Then I go home and eat dinner. It’s part of my routine, which makes it harder to miss. I never schedule anything that would interfere with it. Sunday is my rest day. I still go for a walk on Sunday, though.

I find it’s easier to keep it up if it’s an everyday thing. It becomes a habit.

But don't you usually have shit to do after work? Errands and such, or pets to take care of, etc

Yeah. That stuff waits.

I don't want to die in my fifties because I deemed errands and pets more important than my health.

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There are all sorts of things that I love doing, but I don’t have time for them.

The real answer is that you have to cut something, or find a way to kill two birds with one stone (like switching to running the dog instead of walking).

What do you do for your 1-2 hour hikes? I would see that little time and think it wasn't worth driving somewhere to do it but you have me interested in any way I can get out more.

I wonder this all the time. I walk my dogs an hour each day. I count that as my exercise but i know it's not really enough. I have a 7 month old...there's no time!

I spend an hour a day trying to get my dog to walk and not just sit down in stubbornness.

She's the only dog I know who hates walks

I think most people who are busy like that do not make time. I could be incorrect, but nowadays poverty is correlated with obesity and weight issues more so than being rich is. Poverty limits your options for healthy foods, limits your time to exercise due to working more at low paying jobs, and it limits your ability to pay for services that would aid in exercise (equipment, gym membership, trainers, etc).

So the reality is, most people probably don't find time and face the consequences of that. It's the people who are the exceptions that are probably answering.

I'd like to submit basketball. It doesnt matter if you are horrible. You dont have to play with anyone or even near anyone. Just shoot all types of shots, run for your rebounds. Focus on improving. Its rewarding, fun, great exercise, and you forget how exhausted you are.

And you can ball just about anyplace in the country... the same can’t be said about wakeboarding lol

Best advice on fitness. You MUST find the mode/s of exercise that you enjoy doing, otherwise consistency will slowly fade away. This is coming from someone who has a relatively easy time becoming downright sadistic with their workout program and diet - if you don't like it, someday down the road you will slowly drift away from it and phase it out, often times just subconsciously.

Indoor rock climbing is an awesome one that is an absolute blast and a killer workout. I find that when I'm able to do it, there's a solid chance I want to go back to the (regular) gym in the next day or two, to help my strength for the next time I'm able to get back to the rock gym. Wish I could go more!

This. I let myself go in my 30's and found myself trying gym, walking, treadmill and hating each one. I found my passion in Table Tennis, a game I had only occasionally fooled around with in my younger years.

The result, 2 years down, 10 kilos gone and I feel a lot better. It also doesn't feel like exercise to me and I actually look forward to playing it every day.

So finding something you actually like to do is the key.

I've found that playing Dance Dance Revolution (ddr) is AMAZING cardio. you don't have to start out too hard, and it mixes VERY WELL with my other hobby - VIDEO GAMES. I can't believe how hard I can get my heart going playing this game.

Oh ok I'll just get Alfred to fuel up the boat 😉

I agree, I found I like running, but I wanna build muscle too. But going to the gym to pump iron makes me wanna squeeze my wang off. Any tips?

Swimming!! They have whole classes in a pool that are just absolutely brutal but because you're swimming (usually a fun excersize) it's fun! Like I had a killer water jogging workout yesterday and then 15 minutes later they had another class and I found myself debating if I wanted to go do that cause it looked fun. My boyfriend said he'd never seen me excersize and then debate excersizing more for the fun of it.

I started 3 weeks ago and have lost 11 pounds already. It's completely insane how fast I'm losing weight. Anyway, swimming is a full body excersize and if you find a class that's something like 'water bootcamp' they focus on building muscle too :)

Well, in a couple of towns I visited, they had these kinds of tracks, like in parks or forest areas, where there are wooden things with bars and stuff to do body-weight exercises. So people would just run along the tracks and stop to do the different exercices.

I know nothing about building muscle so I don't know if it's a good idea, and I don't know if it's a thing where you live, but I guess it's the kind of stuff that could fit you.

This has always been my issue with getting into any sort of real workout routine. I've never enjoyed exercising for the sake of exercising.

Indoor climbing is fun, you don't feel like you're working out but aside from your legs you work everything out. You're solving problems, learning efficient routes, how to conserve energy, balance, getting to the top of a new route is always a great feeling. Then go mountain biking, skiing for the legs.

I've found that I like to lift weights, it's not making my belly smaller but it's better than sitting around at 24 playing video games all day.

Start doing some full body compound lifts, like front Squats and deadlifts. Helps a ton for your core. Start small if you have to, slow with perfect form and lighter weighs is more beneficial than fast with shit form.

Thankyou, I'll try this out.

This is SO true. I have always despised working out and have never been able to fall into a routine until I found a yoga studio that I love and can afford. Now I go 3-4 times a week and I've never had such a consistent workout routine in my life!

THIS! I could go walk on a treadmill or stair master and lift every day if i had the time but my wife has a hard time keeping up a routine like that. She found yoga and is absolutely in love. We also take our dogs to the dog park which is 2 square miles of letting them roam and we also go on hikes when the weather is good. Both of us do way more together when it’s something we both enjoy.

Lmao go wakeboarding a few times a week? Limited audience for that suggestion

It's way more accessible than it used to be, cable parks have been popping up everywhere

For all you lazy gamer bastards (like me)...if gaming is a lifestyle choice and you want to keep that in your life, try to save up for VR. That shit will keep you fit, just don't be a lazy asshole who uses it while sitting because standing is too much work.

Shout out to r/wake

This is what I need to be doing. For a long time I was in the gym, grinding away and lifting weights, got myself into pretty good shape.. then a lot of shit happened, and for the last couple of years I will go for a few months, lose all motivation / desire to go, then start up again a month or two later (getting nowhere essentially). Been considering getting into MMA, BJJ, boxing or something and seeing if that's something I enjoy more.

If it means anything, I started boxing 2 weeks ago for cardio (I lift weights 4x a week), and it's been great fun so far. Fucking physically challenging, but that's half the fun, right?

If running on a treadmill at Planet Fitness sounds like the literal manifestation of hell on earth

Sometimes, you just have to get used to it. I try to exercise when I can (gym 2-3 times a week, trail almost daily [about 5 miles for the main one, about 9 miles if doing all three trails]). Point being, sometimes I don't feel like going out, and make excuses to not go, but pushing one's self to go makes it all the more enjoyable. Gym time might sound horrible, but once you're in there, you can just listen to your music, or watch some TV and get to work -- helping to relax from a stressful day.

Also helps to work at a job that's physically demanding, requiring constant moving around. That way, you're more likely to keep in the routine, as it's helped me lose 75+ pounds in the last few months. An average day at my workplace is about 3 to 4 miles of walking, 500-600 calories burned.

I highly recommend yoga and visiting the chiropractor for preventative spine health. I can barely touch my toes at 28 and I am not unfit. I am just so stiff and rigid. I’ve started loosening up and it just makes all my other efforts be they fitness related or not much better. I sleep better I have more energy and I attribute all just to these two things right now.

Rec sports league can be a ton of fun and depending on the sport can be great exercise.

A lot of people stop skateboarding because they get too old. As a 30 year old who skates , its really a good exercise for your core and legs and balance. Just dont go hitting stairs and doing dumb shit, leave that to the kids.

I hate the gym. But I joined a dodgeball league in my city and I LOVE it so much. I look forward to playing all week, and it’s great social time as well (especially because we go to the pub afterward).

Highly recommend, and if you’re in Sydney you should join UrbanRec!

This so much this. I'm often asked how I'm fit as I haven't been to a gym or run since highschool. But I ski all winter and bike all summer. Find the type of exercise you like and do it often in can be anything. It doesn't need to be insanely exerting just get moving a more than a walk more than once a week and you'll be fine

This. I recently got into VR exercise especially VR boxing. It's a blast and I burn a shit ton of calories

So true! A gym doesn't do it for me, but I don't mind walking 10 miles a day when my bones are up to it! Similarly, laser tag can be quite the workout, and it's tons of fun. Gamifying seems to help me keep active.

Find some pickup sports at a local gym, park, church, with your company or something. You can be terrible and still get your sweat on regularly.

Wakeboarding?

I'm going this week can't wait! Only works if you (a) live near a cable park or (b) own a boat.

I'd been struggling with this till I found BJJ. Now I can defend myself, have a new hobby, and stay fit.

I have a pool and i like being in the water but i was never taught how to swim and im too scared to try and teach myself. Dont want my cause of death to be “Tried to teach himself how to swim and drowned” lmao

Wakeskating put me in the best shape of my life and in a great mental state. Now I don’t have much access to it and I hate working out (but am forcing myself to do it) but like riding my bike...but fuck, I miss the water and being strong as fuck from just having fun.

Do you have any cable parks near by?

I read wake boarding as water boarding... very different exercises

This!

I picked up skateboarding ~6 years ago and haven’t looked back. My coworkers thought it was funny at first since I don’t know any tricks, but when they saw me bomb a downhill at 35 mph, that’s when they understood how seriously I took my hobby.

Like video games? Find video games that you get exercise while doing. I alternate between Just Dance and Wii Sports to get in 30 minutes a day but I’m looking to expand into more.

Good physical health is about one thing: discipline. Not everyone finds something they love to do, not everyone has the willpower or motivation. You just need to build the discipline (and habit) to do something. Which is about the same advice for savings, budgeting, work (unless you are one of the few who does something that you love that actually pays the bills).

Agreed. At 30 I found a workout routine that I enjoyed and started working out for the first time since high school. At 31, I'm in the best shape of my life and I'm still progressing nicely. I wasn't morbidly obese or anything but I didn't find it that hard to get back in shape quickly; the hardest part is motivation.

I used to love going to the gym but then it became a chore and honestly it wasn't really helping me that much, I looked bigger but lacked the feeling sooooo I started taking BJJ. Let me tell you, that shit is amazing because I have fun, I learn self defense, and I meet new people who are not pricks or about their looks.

Just walk. Get your diet right And go on a regular walk. It's simple easier. Great for your posture. You don't have to go to the gym to exercise.

Also. Disc golf. It's free, pretty much everywhere on the planet now, and fun. It's basically a small hike with a disc.

Yes, exactly! Running makes me want to curl up and die, but I started cardio kickboxing this term and I love it! I actually look forward to getting up and going to my 8am kickboxing class, and I’m not a morning person whatsoever.

To me it's the i can drive 10 mins to go workout or walk 30 secs to my computer :c but I still manage to go two to three times a week

Rock Climbing is a great example of a fun way to stay in shape. I have never brought somebody to the climbing gym and had them leave without a smile. You pretty much decide how hard you want to work and there's realistic, tangible goals that you can achieve at almost any level of effort.

As silly as it sounds, I kinda like walking/running on a treadmill facing a wall in a gym. Then I can play shit on my phone while exercising and not worry about running into people from walking outside in the real world. And walking is easy, I don't have to learn anything to do it. So it's nice to do something familiar without a learning curve. Though I don't think I'm the norm on this.

Kickboxing does it for me. For now

There's a dad on my street who goes to Zumba with all the wives. Loves it.

Whatever makes you happy and shows you progress in yourself over time is what you should do for exercise.

THIS! My exercise is biking 5 miles 2-4x a week while playing mobile games. (It's a stationary bike if that's not clear...) But I get people telling me to go running, do burpees, do this that and the other that's more effective but...I just don't do those things. I've tried. I never stick with it. Biking while gaming is something I stick with, for the most part. Far more consistently than anything else I've tried.

"The best exercise is the one that you'll actually do"

If you have the money and the interest in it, VR is great for exercise!

5 a side Football (soccer) is great for this. It’s a top workout especially if you have no substitutes. You’re always in the game.

I get ADHD when it comes to sticking to a routine but I change the way I exercise all the time to keep it interesting.

This! I wish someone told me there was more to exercise than running and cardio. I wasn’t very fit so every time I’d try to do any cardio I lasted about 5-10 mins before I had to give up.

For the passed year I’ve been lifting weights and now when I decide to do cardio I can actually do a good hour’s worth. Although I still find running boring so I don’t do that.

I discovered aerobics classes at my local gym at 35 after getting increasingly chubby and depressed by living an incredibly sedentary life. I tried running before, hated it. Assumed I simply am not "a sporty guy".

But boy, hopping around to electronic music in a room full of sweaty people feels so cathartic to me. I instantly knew that this is what was missing in my life and I didn't even realize it. It's like daytime dancing. Plus it really helps my social skills, since moving and sweating with a group of (often quite attractive) strangers is oddly energizing.

I could have just as easily never found this out about myself and just continued getting fatter and lethargic. I'm incredibly thankful for these classes and they also motivated me to lift weights again.

I feel ten years younger than I felt last year. In my mid 30s, I already felt like an old man sometimes.

Do Americans have much amateur sport going on?

I can join a Sunday league soccer team, or a 5 a side soccer team. Or a field hockey/rugby club, tennis club, badminton team, table tennis squad and play competitively with teammates every week here in Europe.

Americans never seem to talk about it. If you play "football in college" you are probably trying to get into the NFL. If you play soccer in college in Europe, you won't likely ever be a professional.

I want to move to America some day, but I keep fit by staying motivated by my team mates.

jazzercise

PRANCE, MOTHERFUCKER

I lost 40 pounds in a year in college by just eating marginally better and walking alot. I despise running and jogging with a passion, but I love walking

this! although I don't mind going to the gym or exercising on my own (having music helps), it's fun to have a workout buddy, too. I have a friend from school who I go to yoga and the gym with and we motivate each other. Exercise can be a pain in the ass but it can also have a social aspect to it and can make it more worthwhile!!

Learning that now. Just got back into the gym today (36/f). Better late than never I guess!

I played soccer year round through high school but never ran to stay in shape after that. I'm 31 now. I realized a few weeks ago after running to catch a train how incredibly out of shape I am! With the beautiful sunny day we had yesterday I decided to push myself and go for a run. I only made it about 20 minutes and today my legs feel like a bunch of bruises, but it's a good feeling! Hope I make it a regular thing.

Good for you. I’ve simply never been athletic and all my hobbies were always sedentary (singing, writing, acting). It’s hard to push myself when it’s so not in my nature!

Set lots and lots of small goals, give yourself a reason to be proud of yourself as often as possible. You'll look forward to your workouts in no time

Totally. I've been setting one goal in a journal each day--be it how much water I drink or how many miles I walk or how many servings of veggies I get.

A 20 minute run is pretty awesome for your first time in forever! Congrats! I find listening to really engaging podcasts (or books on tape if that were my thing) help keep me going longer than I meant to, because I’m ready to be done but I have 7 more minutes so I may as well keep going and finish it.

31/ or 31/m ?

I started running in my mid-30s, and now I do it like clockwork. I'm probably more fit now in my late 30s than I was at 18 just because of the routine. I say you aren't even late at 36! You have many long, healthy decades ahead of you!

Hope so! Thanks for the inspiration. Don’t know if I’ll ever love running specifically, but I can definitely see myself getting hooked on fitness in theory.

This is me and weightlifting. I'm stronger at 35 than at any other point in my life.

My cardio, on the other hand... Let's just say I need to start running again.

Definitely learned it the hard way. Still struggling.

Remember, eating right is absolute key. And consistency trumps all.

Absolutely my biggest issue (always has been). It's all connected though because when I'm being active I naturally want to eat better and when I'm eating like crap, I feel like I've already failed and become a couch potato. Still trying my darndest to find this "balance" so many people speak of!

It's very true to get this balance. Workout HARD 3 times a week and stay on the boundaries of the supermarket...no aisles ;)

Once you achieve your dream body, it is actually pretty easy to maintain. Anything worth it is hard, so just keep at it and 6 months, a year, 2 years, you'll look back thanking your former self. It's not about motivation, it's all about discipline. I'm 6 years into working out and still hate doing it sometimes. Hope I helped.

Definitely did help! For me the inner aisles aren’t my vice (I’m a vegetarian who eats really clean when I cook), but the temptation to eat out. I live in NYC and every kind of food I could ever want is just a click away. I love Indian, Thai, etc. and while healthy versions of these cuisines exist, it’s never what I crave!!

Indian, Thai, and other exotics are fine! Don't worry about that. I'm also a vegetarian and love cooking at home. I've found cookieandkate.com to be an AMAZING site for vegetarian cooking. Her recipes are incredible.

I’ll check it out!

No need to avoid aisles if you know exactly what you need and stick to it. Olive oil and Swerve isn't sold on the boundaries.

Clearly, but if you tell a beginner that they CAN cheat, they take it overboard.

Cheating? Olive oil is a healthy fat and Swerve is a zero calorie sweetener.

Olive oil isn't cheating but for the most part the aisles are. Most zero calorie sweeteners are terrible for you.

My unsolicited advice:

There will inevitably be days that you won't feel like going to the gym. Those are the days you HAVE to go. Trick yourself by only committing to workout for twenty minutes on those days. Odds are you will workout for longer than that and if you don't you still reinforced the habit of going to the gym.

If you're not feeling it two times (not necessarily days) in a row, then allow yourself to skip the second time.

That’s a good tip!

Another way to trick yourself is to establish a consistent pre-workout routine. For example, every morning I pack my workout gear and take it to work, whether I end up at the gym or not - it doesn't guarantee a gym visit, especially on Fridays, but it gets me started. Then right after work I prepare a pre-workout protein shake. Once I make that shake and drink it, I'm absolutely committed to working out 30-45 minutes after finishing it (which consists of the walk to the gym and getting dressed).

Just remember: every day is leg day

I live in NYC with lots of stairs in the subways and blocks to walk, so that's very much the truth!

I've started to enjoy my regular squat routine to start all my lifting workouts.

It's turned me into a masochist...

Yep same here just back back into it recently ~ 2 months ago. Not only do I feel better overall, but I'm losing weight I've gained over the years from drinking and eating poorly... and it has brought so much positivity into my life. I'm an introvert and I think its giving me a healthy dose of daily social contact as well. I'm simply more confident in my own skin and its helping my anxiety and depression!

Good for you! How about sleep? I noticed my sleep gets SO much better/deeper when I work out and eat well!

Fuck. Yes. You’ve got this shit.

36F here too. Damn, I need to follow your example

It's never too late to improve your life by exercising more. Though I should be exercising right now.

Good for you! We can't live in the past or in the future. TODAY you did the thing that made you feel good! Keep doing good today things!

I'm a 33m, and I've lost over 50lbs since the end of last July. I've been going to the gym since October and I'm back in the shape I was in in high school and going for better than that. It sucks a whole lot. It's worth it though.

Good for you!! Weight loss for me is like that Mark Twain quote about quitting smoking—something like “it’s not hard; I’ve done it a million times.”

I’ve lost as much as 65 lbs before and many times bc as many times as I’ve lost weight, I’ve also gained weight :(.

Yeah, the long term is what gets everyone.

Yes, absolutely yes. It is never too late to take one's health seriously. Keep at it!

Good for you! Keep it up!

Get it girl!!!!!!! Good job! Don’t stop.

I want to think you have so many upvotes because of the number of women in that demographic who are reading this thread right now, that hope to someday be you. I know I am :)

Come join us at r/xxfitness :)

The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the next best time is today. :)

Ha, that’s awesome.

You can do it! And remember, proper diet will do most of the work! I lost 50lbs before I started to hit the gym last year. The scale has slowed down, but that's because I added in muscle, so I still lose inches.

/r/progresspics and /r/loseit awaits you.

And stop eating donuts please

Was that directed at me? I hate donuts. All sweets, really! Savory is my vice.

Ha!

Then you have a good taste of things!

Lovely

Unfortunately, some people never form that habit as children.

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That's me right now... Got the flu a couple weeks ago and didn't go to the gym because of that. Haven't been since, and it sucks. Tomorrow I'm going!!

You can do it! Reddit is counting on you.

I didn't really either. But, college is a great time to adopt it. Almost all colleges have free fitness centers. I wish I had.

I didn’t join a single sport or exercise other than gym class and playing outdoors. I’m 27 now and started using a treadmill and kind of fun honestly. I’m doing to help me lose my chubbyness before it gets too far, so I’m watching my calorie intake too. I’ve discovered the cardio is way easier than not eating as much. God damn do I love food.

I'm entering my 20's and have been trying to keep up a regular gym routine on and off for a while. I know I have awful habits and I don't want to pay the price when I'm older. Whenever I fall back I just get up again and keep trying. I know someday I'll be able to keep up the healthy lifestyle I want.

I think it's just always going to be a struggle for some of us. Healthy living doesn't come easy for a lot of us. But, I always tell any young person who will listen how important developing healthy habits is at a young age.

Like, make it part of your grownup routine. Your life changes a lot as you enter college and then the work force. Make it a priority.

I'm 26 and trying to get in the habit of regular exercise and eating properly so that I can maximise the years when I'll have my best health. I'm also trying to care less about how my body looks and more about how it feels and what it can do.

I guess I’m a counter example.
Started at 33 and going strong two years later!

Everyone's body and experience is different. I don't mean it's impossible or that it won't be easy for some people. It's just easier for a younger body than an older one.

Same here, in much better shape now than I was in my 20s, when I basically treated my body like I was still a teenager

I thought I enjoyed having a dad bod.
Turns out I prefer a six pack.

Signing up for the gym today. I figure the next 8-12 months will suck as I get myself into shape and make good habits. After that, the rest of my life will just be maintaining.

Dude much less, in six months max your body will be completely changed if you exercice 4-5 days a week

I have about 60lb to lose. I'm also planning on hiking to the everest base camp in March so I got a lot of training to go :p

I have a fitbit and it makes a big difference. I know it’s dumb, but it’s like something to get excited about — seeing how long you kept your heart rate up, and how you become capable of more over time.

It also keeps you honest, and you get very quick feedback when you start slacking.

For the love of god, take care of your back/joints. Exercise is to improve, not to impress.

por que no los dos

lets be honest it feels great to look in the mirror every morning and think "I look hot as fuck", just as much as it's great to feel good

The big fitness killer for most college students is that they graduate after attending classes an activities all over campus, eating light, and walking everywhere to sitting in the same office, eating more, and driving/riding everywhere, all coming when their body is starting to hit the peak of their natural performance.

That being said, if you’ve already fallen into the bad habits, it’s never too late to work your way back. It doesn’t take as much time and effort as most people believe.

When I was in high school I played basketball all every day. I stopped when I got to college and never replaced that activity. I've remained more or less sedentary ever since, with a few forays into walking or running.

I played soccer, year round, from the time I could walk until I got to high school and started running track, year-round. I stopped playing organized sports in college, but worked out and walked or biked everywhere. I was 6’4” and never got above 180 lbs. Fast-forward ten years after graduating, working a desk job, and had somehow slowly worked my way up to 225 lbs. At my height, nobody ever accused me of being fat, but I decided to finally try ice hockey at 35 (there was never a nearby rink growing up). It was a wake-up call as to how out of shape I had become and the impetus to make a change. I changed my diet, beat my ass down to 173, and haven’t been above 185 in the last six years. I’m not working out as much as I want to, now, but I’m keeping the bad habits in check.

I’ve found it takes about three weeks for an uncomfortable activity, like dieting and exercising, to become habit. Get to that tipping point and it becomes much easier.

I always tell people "It's easier to stay fit than get fit."

I would also add that you should be prepared to make adjustments i.e. find a new sport as you age. I played lacrosse until I was 28 but now at 50+ there's no way that could happen. Now I'm a cyclist. In another 25 years I might be a swimmer, or a rower.

I've lost weight and gotten fat again more times than Oprah. I'm 30 now and on my first day stepping back in the gym this year I thought "I've been in this rodeo a couple times before, I got this." You hear about people "chasing their youth" - that shit is real because one day it will just start to run away from you. Don't ever give it a head start!

It's such an easier habit to maintain than it is to adopt in one's 30s.

You are right about how it is hard to start later on but you can still do it. I fell into a free gym membership and it helped get me started and now I walk 3 miles every day up the road, and in the woods on some nice days. I'm slowly losing weight, and it has helped me with some of my anxieties about issues going on in my life.

This. I have a lot of health issues because I failed to keep in shape. I was an athlete and solid into my early 20’s. Then a couch potato for about 15 years.

Getting back into it now through life and habit changes. I forgot what it was like to feel good.

Stay in shape. It does so much more than make you look good in a swimsuit.

Oh fuck yes, my first real job was as at an internal global helpdesk where I worked 12h shifts, this meant that I tought myself that ANY free time first are foremost had to be used for resting.

That has taken years to break down, and change it to be more active.

I am only now (30 years old) considering regular exercise (swimming, I dislike gyms) for the first time in my life and have thoughts on swimming 2h per week to start (1h every weekend morning is the plan).

That's exactly what I've been doing!

Hate stationary cardio. It's boring as hell and I'm not stimulated enough to stay on track. I've decided to combine the cardio with Netflix and it has helped tremendously! I can only watch my show if I hop on my stationary.

I tried that for awhile. I couldn't get that to stick either.

I think walking is going to be my next try. I know from my brief Jogging career that getting out of the house and going somewhere helps me feel like I'm doing something.

At least you know what works for you!

Do you have the time (or rather, make time) to walk or jog daily? Walk a little is better than nothing. For example, I walk during my break and lunch at work. If I don't have enough steps, I try to make it up by walking before dinner time.

Not sure if this'll help your motivation, but you can get a fit bit equivalent or an app to help track your goals. Wish you the best!

I'm in my mid 20s and although I want to work on fitness, I always find excuses not to. My Uni cost covers the gym and yet I haven't hit that in 6 years mostly due to fear of looking weird/funny. So I finally started going for brisk walks instead (like I'm an oldie) and hopefully soon I'll get my ass into the gym too

Super important esp over 30: don't eff up your joints.

I highly suggest saving your pennies for a 6 session personal training package. Tell them you want to focus solely on form, mobility, and joint health. You can stop completely after that or do a quarterly tune-up.

Any workout class fad of the week can kick your butt, but there's nothing like a person watching you like a hawk to make sure you're engaging the right muscles, using proper posture, and not forming habits that are going to injure you. They'll also show you what muscles to loosen up to take care of joint pain (for me it was a tight glute muscle making my "bum knee" act up.)

My back feels better at 34yo than it did in my early 20s, and I have 2 very active kids who are not gentle on it.

Plus the older you get the harder it is to lose weight so you’re better off getting in the habit sooner and keeping trim.

Shit I haven't even started

... and 40s...

As a lazy 23 year old who has started to rapidly gain weight, this is true.

Trying to get back in that habit (plus eating healthier) at 24. It's still a bitch to get back into.

Sooooo true. And on a side note, trying to change someone to how you want them to be. A leopard does not change its spots

Is riding a bike long distances sufficient or do i need to be running or lifting?

I’m not a professional, but it totally depends on your goals. Riding a bike is good cardio and hill training can be a grisly workout, but I would encourage anyone to also do some amount of weightlifting, even if their goal isn’t increased strength. Weightlifting is amazing for weight loss, because you’re not just burning energy in the activity. Your body spends a significant amount of resources over the next day to repair the muscles you broke down in your workout, too.

As someone who ran competitively for years, bleh. Running just isn’t fun for me anymore and if an activity isn’t fun, I’m far less likely to stick with it. I’d rather play a team sport for an hour.

I miss football

Ya know, the 2 seconds my redneck coach let me play

I had a high school soccer coach that I just didn’t click with, one year. He complained about my endurance (which was average for our team). He’s the reason I started running track. After a season of cross-country, I could run circles around the soccer team, but he was such a dick that I only played for club teams after that.

You say that like we ever had the habit to fall out of.

Being a full time student with a part time job, I'm looking forward to rectifying the lack of exercise this summer.

Can’t agree with this enough; I started working out seriously as a senior when I was ~190 all flab no abs. Today I’m 21, ~160 twice as strong & seeing some abs :)

I’ve already started to fall out of this and I’m 25. I’m glad you committed.

i havent worked out in like 4 weeks, this is my motivation to get back into it

just started running again -- feel crazy better

r/bodyweightfitness for those who don't want to waste money every month!

After playing sports, football mostly, throughout high school and college, this spring semester was the first time I’ve ever had a break from it all. The early mornings, lifting, practices, meetings, all intertwined with school isn’t necessary for me anymore. I haven’t lifted a weight in months, mainly because the routine I was used too isn’t necessary for me anymore. I’ve ran a few times, but this shitty midwestern weather hasn’t motivated me either as I prefer running outside, but not in cold/snow when I don’t have to. I’m catching myself coasting and falling out of habit.

awesome advice. Been trying this for awhile

Exercising in university was almost impossible for me because I was so busy with school and work. Now I take pole fitness classes once a week and am doing C25K. I'm 23 and plan to keep it up!

I second this comment heavily. I’m only in my mid-20’s and I’ve already noticed if I don’t get my exercise in during the day, not only does my body feel like rubbish, but my mind starts going as well. Your brain and your body are not separate entities, you have to take care of the one to also take care of the other, and vice versa.

Falling out of the habit of exercising regularly

Hard do decide if this is "(Falling out of the habit) of exercising (regularly)," or "Falling out of the habit of (exercising regularly)," but they both apply to me.

I agree, i used to exercise / work out a lot in my early 20s. Then for about 4 years or so i stopped working out or exercising. Now for almost 3 years i've made it a habit to exercise daily, if it's even for 30 minutes.

You CAN adopt the habit in your 30's, I started at 31 after I looked at a photo we took with my wife I'm turning 44 in August, in the last 13 years or so I've trained 4/5 times a week. The only time I missed training was the 3 months after my daughter was born

Didn't day you couldn't. Just that it's harder with a body that's less well maintained and more worn.

It ain't about fatness, it's about fitness

Why can't I upvote you twice

What counts as excercise? Walking 2 miles a day? Running a marathon each day? Walking to the car? How much is reasonable.

Lol I never got into the habit of exercising

I'd also add, don't overdo it.

It's easy when you're young to get into this mentality that you have to train for some perfect body. You start monitoring the regiments of professional athletes and bodybuilders, trying to do as they do, but the thing is you aren't a professional athlete, you're just some asshole. You don't have the time and team those pros have to commit to this, nor are you getting paid to do it. Also, you can seriously screw parts of your body up by over training and the effects can last the rest of your life and be devastating.

That's part of why I dropped out of college and got into blue-collar work. I like my work being my exercise. The thought of being behind a desk or sitting in a lab all day is horrifying.

Pokemon Go.

Seriously. My brother gave me his account when he joined the navy and couldn't play any more. Over the last 4 months, I've probably added an extra kilometer or two (American, but pokemon measures distance in km) of walking (okay, some of it biking) each day on average; whether it's detours, walking around a block instead of sitting, or whole trips I wouldn't have done otherwise.

I've been proud to say I've been working out continuously and regularly (not a single break week and 3x a week minimum including sick weeks) for 2 1/2 years now. Before then, I would still workout pretty regularly, but would have slumps. I haven't had a single slump in this time.

One of the HARDEST things in working out even today (even though I LOVE lifting) is to do that first exercise. To start out the session. Once I get started, I can do everything and anything. But that first exercise and entering the gym is the hardest mental thing to do.

Looking thin is not the only component to having a healthy body.

also the opposite. exercise itself doesn't necessarily make you thin. but it can still mean that are generally more "fit" than others.

(e.g. a chubby person that regularly does sport will almost certainly have more stamina than a skinny person that never does any)

Im sure this is good advice. But how could you possibly know this? Are you in your 30s and unable to start exercising and assume it would have been easier to maintain, or are you someone who maintained their workout routine and assume that it would have been much harder to start now?

I'm fat 35 year old who never really exercised regularly in his life and tried to start a few years ago.

I’m 35 this year and about 60lbs heavier (215>155) than college weight. Granted I was lean as hell in college .. but Im sure as hell not now. I’d kill to be 175 again.

Don’t drink just because you can people. Set limits on your intake and stay consistently active. Also pack your lunch even if you’re traveling for work. That was my downfall.

What's with all these posts saying "falling out of". It isn't the standard to be "in the habit of". Only the sport nerd kids did that kinda stuff in HS and college.

Yeah, the specific advice I give young people is to make exercising part of their routine in their late teens and 20s and to keep it.

Yea but.. what if you’ve never exercised regularly?

It's still easier to start in your 20s.

Could you elaborate on how it is easy to maintain a habit in your 30s?

Or did you mean that it's objective easier in comparison to starting one?

If your body is used to exercise when you're younger, it's easier to maintain healthy habits.

It's the starting of that habit that's difficult for me.

I'm close to finishing Uni, been working construction in the summer, but all sorts of different things at all sorts of places. I started going to the gym for a month my first year, have been back to the gym once since. I've spent some time running regularly, but between the bad winter weather, my dislike of treadmills, and my dislike of running in general (too high impact), that's been on and off. I've had access to a bike for parts of the summers, but not while at school, plus bike lanes and stuff suck where I'm at. I played a little intramural indoor soccer, but haven't for a year now.

I find it hard to get into a proper habit because I either just don't enjoy any of the exercises or they aren't accessible, and my varying schedules kill any type of consistency.

And damn, I've been conscious of my nutritional needs and generally try to at least avoid the really bad stuff, but cooking for myself has been such a hassle I have not been eating all that great either.

I know what lifestyle I should be living, it's just so hard to get there. Doesn't help I'm study computer science. Desk jobs for life, wheee!

sounds like you're making a lot of excuses for yourself.

Oh totally, and I know it.

check this video. I know Rogan is kinda cliche bro talk at this point, but his points here are very well articulated and helpful, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_eJRDl2J6Y

This succinctly explained the struggle I've been dealing with for all of my 20s. Every time you embrace the "Aw, it doesn't matter this one time" option, that pathway is reinforced and an easier option next time. One time snowballs into dozens fast.

Yep, but the good news is the opposite is also true. As soon as you start telling yourself “no excuses. I’m going to the gym today for 45 minutes. Even if I don’t want to, even if I’m tired. Even if I’m sore. Even if I had a long hard day at work/school/whatever”

You do that for a little while and you gain that positive momentum and it becomes something you look forward to, and you never regret going after you’re done. I have never once finished a workout then thought to myself “wow I really wish I hadn’t done that”

I started working out 2 years ago at 31 years old, and prior to that I had never stepped foot in a gym or regularly participated in a sport. I’ve made tons of progress in that time and developed all sorts of habits and benefits both physically and mentally since, and I intend to carry it into old age and continue to keep it an important part of my life.

You do that for a little while and you gain that positive momentum and it becomes something you look forward to, and you never regret going after you’re done. I have never once finished a workout then thought to myself “wow I really wish I hadn’t done that”

My problem is that even after 6 months or so of consistency, if I miss ONCE, I have a hard time starting again. That momentum never seems to stick if I get off track even a tiny bit.

Set realistic goals. 3x per week. Something you can manage even if you miss a day or 2

Yeah, that's where I'm at currently. I just really suck at shrugging it off if I miss a day. I work out MWF, and did for 6 months, then missed a Monday and spent 2 months w/o touching the weight set. Gotta get back on the wagon faster.

please note that diet is far more important than exercise. Exercising means nothing if you go home from the gym and consume 2 pop tarts and a bottle of orange juice.

Ounces in the gym, pounds in the kitchen.

Yeah I feel like this happens super often in people who played a shit ton of sports in highschool and college. And when it ends. They think “oh good, I can take a few weeks off”. Than those weeks turn too months and all of a sudden things are hard when they used to be easy

On the other hand though, it was great to have a whole decade of being able to eat whatever I wanted and do no exercise and still be super skinny. I enjoyed it while it lasted.

Dearest Redditor: As a 27 (almost) year old male, I thank thee for this response. I keep putting off physical exercise because I'm in (not terrible shape) right now. This very well may give me the push I need. Or I'll put it off for another year and regret my decision, but at least I'll have Oreos at 2 AM...

Its never about calories but rather about putting the right nutrients into your body that your body needs to work. Exercise is also a great part of life but has no more relevence than diet and shouldnt be separated as both need to be controlled in conjunction.

People assume that thin people are healthy and that does not follow. Fatty deposits around organs can equally exist around thin bodies and many younger people can look thin / toned but still be consuming a shocking diet laiden with salt, cholesterol, carbs that induce sugar spikes. Just because a youngster can be very active and use up their carb intake doesnt mean that what their consuming is healthy or correct.

The fact that most people who do not exercise are fat does not mean that all of them are like that. Before I started regularly hitting the gym I was extremely thin. I am still trying to gain weight and it is so fucking damn hard for me. But in all cases I look A LOT better not to mention feeling a lot better after maintaining an active lifestyle.

Can't fall out of the habit if you never exercise to begin with.

At least you can afford a gym membership.

Get a DUI/DWI

It will seriously fuck up your life. Uber and taxis for years are cheaper than 1 DUI.

Or you can kill someone and live with the guilt for your entire life. One of my best friends killed someone in a drunk driving wreck. He had a full ride to college. Now he’s in prison for vehicular manslaughter while intoxicated. No matter how good you think you are at driving drunk. YOU ARE NOT!

Very true. I was a bad alcoholic for a couple of years, and I drove a lot intoxicated and never to my amazement got caught. But one day I was driving home from work drunk and I somehow fucked up my side view mirror and don't remember how. That's the last time I got drunk.

Unless of course you "don't remember" and your family is fucking wealthy so you get off with two years in jail the last one with work/school release. Then you just move out of town to go to college to party some more and live life like you didn't just take someone's only son/brother out of this world .

How do you know what that person is still up to? I'd rather not know/ check on the drunk driver anymore.

The drunk driver was my brother's best friend and we don't live in a huge city so when my brother's friends would run into me they'd kind of tell me wat he was up to. That was right after he had gotten out of jail so about 5 and a half years ago, I haven't seen or heard anything about him since.

Sorry for your loss either way. That's a shame

Thank you. It really sucks sometime cuz I sit here and wonder wat he could've made of himself had he gotten the chance to live past 18.

Also unless you murder four people and get away with a slap on the wrist because apparently we live in a society where you are allowed to kill whoever you want if you are rich enough. All you have to do is be a fucking sub-human piece of shit and claim you were too rich to ever learn not to drive drunk and kill people.

affluenza

Everytime I hear that I want to vomit. If "affluenza" caused you to murder four people, so what? Poverty causes people to steal and join gangs and they still get put behind bars.

If the person that died is someone's pnly son, then how did he have a brother?

My mom's only son and my only brother.

So sorry for your loss.

Thank you. It'll be 8 years tomorrow night, somedays still hurt like it was yesterday.

Sisters exist. :-)

A slash (/) is a punctuation mark used for various purposes. Other names for it are: stroke, virgule, diagonal, right-leaning stroke, oblique dash, slant, separatrix, slake and whack, front slash. A mark in the reverse direction () is called a reverse slash or backslash.

Denotes: Division, to show, for instance how many kilograms of barley are left out of your total supply of barley; 155/2000.

A slash can also be interpreted as "and". For example, "He is enrolling in the JD/MBA program at Harvard". It can also be interpreted as "or". For example, "Each employee must bring his/her Photo ID". Therefore, a slash mean and/or.

How do you end up in federal prison for that considering it's not a federal crime ?

If he killed a fed who was on the job (USPS delivery driver for example) it might be, but in general you are right drunk driving and murder are not federal crimes and won't land you in federal prison.

Maybe he did it as he crossed state lines.

Or maybe not everyone on this site is American. Other countries have the concept of federal crimes, too! Eg, in Canada, it would be a federal crime (everything in the criminal code is).

People on Reddit forget this way too often

And the Canadians are the most sorry about it.

full ride to college

prison

He's American.

Maybe OP is lying and made the whole thing up

Or maybe they used the wrong terminology by mistake but still wanted to tell the story.

Someone made a mistake online? Better nitpick! :-)

I guess that’s possible. I do find it odd that whenever someone makes this kind of “mistake” it’s always for the benefit of making their story sound better never the other way around.

I can get behind a healthy dose of skepticism (especially reading stuff online), but incorrectly using "federal prison" as a catch-all term for any non-county jail sentence is something I've done myself several times by mistake, so I kinda figured that's what had happened.

When it's the other way around, no one upvotes it and it doesn't get exposure

r/nothingeverhappens

Had a former boss in his early 30's who has a degree in mechanical engineering (I'm in my early 20's with the same degree), he always took the time to talk about great he is and all of his accomplishments with everyone. He can actually be charming, but obviously very narcissistic about himself. That's the tip of the iceberg anyway.

Turns out literally a month after he got his degree when he was 22, he was driving drunk with some friends and killed a guy, got 3 years in prison. His LinkedIn account is all sorts of fucked-up-looking. I already can't imagine the guilt, but he also had to fabricate 3 years of life that he has never lived, + the following years of missed potential to save face.

He is now fired (unrelated to his history) and he's doing welding now

That actually happened. Don't fucking do it.

His LinkedIn account is all sorts of fucked-up-looking.

???

Besides the huge 3 year "gap" of unemployment, he has a few other gaps, and jobs that aren't really "mechanical engineering" or anything prestigious. It raises a lot of questions and red flags, and the reason: no one wants to hire an engineer with a criminal record - and getting a record of vehicular manslaughter pretty much means your career is over.

Right now his profile still says he's working with us, even though he was fired over a year ago. Yeah, he's done.

Oh for fuck sakes not even REDDIT is sacred anymore???

Making shit up? On my reddit???

Could have happened in a federal jurisdiction, such as the presidio in San Francisco.

He didn't say federal prison

comment was edited.

Thank you. Where did they see ‘Federal’? Most people don’t understand the difference between jail and prison so perhaps that was it. But I’m a true crime junkie.

If your blood alcohol content goes above a certain number (like way above .08), it becomes a felony.

Just because it is a felony doesn't make it federal.

[deleted]

That's not how that works. Why do you think states have their own prisons?

Probably should've did the googling before I typed that. Whoops

It’s not a felony in the US, in Canada it is I believe. Your 3rd DUI is felony. At least in California that’s how it goes.

In MA things change when any harm is caused resulting from the DUI

In the US, DUI manslaughter with gross negligence can carry a prison term of 10 years per person killed.

Who said federal prison?

he must have edited the comment

Or you can get yourself along with your passengers killed, like a close relative of mine.

I mean that would fall under the category of "seriously fucking up your life," as well as someone else's.

Sucks to say, but people are dumb enough to think they'd never get into a fatal accident while intoxicated. Cop pulling you over (and likely saving yours/others lives), though? Probably easier to get the general public to respond to that.

Fuck it, I'm walking home

no such thing as a WUI

Public intoxication ..?

WUI = Walking under influence

Just a... shitty joke I guess

Is public intoxication a thing? As someone from Germany, that seems insane

Lol I was saying there basically is a “walking under the influence” charge .... public intoxication.

Edit - lol yup it’s real alright

Yeah, but I didn't know that actually was a thing. Caught me by surprise. Acting like an ass and actually going at people, sure, but just being drunk even staggering home is fine I thought lol

Alcohol laws are soooo annoying in America. The town I currently live in has a lot of college students. You absolutely cannot drink 2 beers and then sit on the curb. This is enough probable cause for the local cops to throw you in the drunk tank.

Like the article says, you have to be making a pretty wild scene before you actually get picked up and charged for it. I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for it unless they were being a major nuisance, like yelling in a residential area in the middle of the night or starting fights.

Being drunk while staggering home with might get you picked up by the cops. You'll probably just get thrown in jail/drunk tank for the night to sober up/get picked up.

Dude you’re telling me. I live in Houston, walked home one night, tried snagging a taxi, a police officer pulls over to tell me I’m drunk and in the street. I say yes, looking for a taxi, want to take me home? Boom, public intoxication. One of the silliest things I’ve ever seen someone arrested for. That someone being myself.

You've heard of the public intoxication charge. I also want to point out that you can get a public intoxication charge if the cop pulls over the person driving you home and THEY get a DUI.

Just wow. The USAs drinking laws are crazy, no wonder drinking is considered so dangerous here when everyone has to fear doing it even in controlled environments. A few years ago they banned drinking in public transit, but that was the transit companies' decision. Though if you look like a normal dude who has it together they're not really giving you a problem when you have an opened bottle of beer in front of you.

Public drinking isn't considered trashy here, it's culture because here, beer is considered a basic food and a staple of our culture. This also means every corner store has beer (and wine, and sometimes harder alcohols) and even my workplace's cafeteria carried alcoholic beer until someone fell into a machine and died. Now it's alcohol free beer.

Yes, I have seen stories of people arrested walking home (even though they were responsible and didn't drive). Another story in which a person was drinking at a restaurant, a policeman called him over and he walked out with the glass of beer and was arrested for having an open container... arrested for sleeping in the back of a car... so many minor mistakes with consequences

And even if you were the best driver in the world while you are drunk, all it takes is one asshole to hit you and you are fucked for life. Driving drunk is a VERY underpunished crime legally, but it has other consequences that can be pretty bad

I always report suspected impaired drivers. Gotten some heat from people that don't see the big deal but I stood my ground and called them out on their selfishness.

And even if you were the best driver in the world while you are drunk, all it takes is one asshole to hit you and you are fucked for life.

This is such a piece of shit comment, I cannot believe it's been upvoted. If you're drink driving, you are the problem, not a victim.

The way I read this is "even if you were theoretically a perfect driver when drunk (ignoring the fact that this is not possible), all it takes is someone else to hit you and youre fucked for life, since you will get a dui even if it 'wasnt your fault'"

Maybe that's how it was meant, it's difficult to tell. But it seems odd to call someone other than the drunk driver an asshole in this situation. It also seems to be removing responsibility from drunk drivers.

The message should be: don't drink and drive as you may kill or injure an innocent person. Not, someone else might crash into you.

since you will get a dui even if it 'wasnt your fault'"

You will?

If you get hit by another driver and aren't at fault at all, the cops come, and you're intoxicated then you'll definitely get a dui

Also, the full blame of the accident will fall on the drunk driver, even if by following the laws of the road it was not. Also, your insurance will then not cover you or the other vehicle(s) because you were under the influence.

Thats what Im saying. My opinion on drunk drivers isnt very popular here on Reddit, I think that once you are confirmed to be driving over the limit beyond any doubt, you should be pulled from the car by the police and shot in the head and left on the side of the road for your next of kin to come get.

Question, how long did it take for them to convict him or for him to find out his destiny? There was a girl who went to my college who killed two people while apparently intoxicated back in September and I haven't heard anything else about the situation.

I was hit by a drunk driver, he killed two people in a third car - it took one year, 10 months, and 15 days to convict him of double murder.

EDIT: I remember the DA telling me my accident was one of the first in either the county or state (don’t remember) to charge the guy with murder instead of a lesser crime. Not sure if that had to do with it or if that’s even true. On a side note, he also had to get a federal trial out of the way for selling drugs to an undercover agent, so that’s another reason for the delay.

Or you can kill someone and live with the guilt for your entire life.

Yeah actually I'll try this instead, thanks for the advice!

Which is precisely why he said he's considering stopping drinking at parties...

These kinds of comments bolster my resolve. I've never driven intoxicated but had recently been faltering and questioning in my belief. Thinking it might not be so bad to drive 2 minute to the store and back.

Yeah someone from my high school got killed by a drunk driver. Admittedly part of the issue is they weren't wearing a seatbelt. So don't drive drunk and wear your seatbelt. Cars and alcohol are dangerous.

The insidious thing about alcohol is that it boosts your confidence first. Especially among young men, this leads to more risk taking in traffic. It's a very dangerous combination.

My cousin killed himself over the guilt. 2 lives with one horrible, horrible stone. NEVER worth it.

Aww :( I'm sorry for your friend.

A guy I know was a rising musician in the area. He was in a hard rock band that was all about drinking and partying.

He ended up killing someone driving drunk. He only got six years in jail, but also lost his license permanently, and lives in an extremely rural, isolated area. Bye bye, career.

I know this might get downvoted to oblivion, but I feel like it needs to be said.

I got a DUI right after I turned 21, and I ALMOST let it fuck up my life. Instead, I learned from it and changed almost everything about my personal life choices to avoid it ever happening again. There is no telling how bad I would have gotten without that life lesson.

Basically I’m saying IF you get a DUI, don’t automatically assume you fucked your life. Work hard to fix what is wrong. And if you can; don’t ever get a DUI.

[deleted]

I needed these comments. Currently going through it now. Can’t wait to get my life back on track after I complete probation and pay off these thousands of dollars that I owe. But I’m grateful because it could’ve been a lot worse.

Recently got one. Don't beat yourself up. Definitely know that what you have done is not ok. Never do it again and learn from that. It's the most important thing you can do. I still feel awful to this day and probably always will. But we can't let it get in the way of our future. We're better than that.

[deleted]

but it happens

It doesn't just happen. You made a decision to drink drive. It didn't happen by accident.

and it does destroy your life for a while

And it might destroy your life "for a while" but can potentially destroy innocent victims lives forever, or leave them dead.

Enough of the self pity.

You don’t know everyone’s story. Yes it’s a bad thing but these are people discussing their mistake and how they plan on getting better. It’s a fuckup that is seriously jarring for most people and a little support/pity here and there helps them live a better lifestyle instead of turning towards more destructive behavior.

TL;DR Fuck off

I know someone who was almost killed by a drink driver (and has permanent injuries to show for it), so apologies for not pitying the person at fault for that.

There are plenty of testimonies on this very page from people who have lost love ones to drink drivers so I'm shocked at how little acknowledgement there is here of the risks these people have put other road users in. Instead they seem more concerned about the fines they've received, and how being caught committing an incredibly dangerous crime has made them feel.

That is not the point. No one is thinking about getting one. It's already happened and all you can do is more forward and do something. Endless self loathing gets no one anywhere

Thank you for saying this. A DUI is bad, but if you learned from it, don't start thinking that your whole life is over.

[deleted]

Yeah I know right it's fucking bullshit. .08 is one beer. ONE FUCKING BEER. How many of us are drunk after one beer? Why the fuk is the legal limit .08, that is ONE BEER. Bullshit. 3 beers I would understand, personally I don't feel safe to drive after between 2 and 3 beers, so that's really what it should be. Make it 2 and a half beers, which calculates to 0.2. I'm fine with that legal limit, just fuckin make it that and we won't get all these not-really-drunk people with DUIs all over the fucking place. The whole thing is bullshit because of the ridiculously low legal limit of one fucking beer.

For a 180 lbs Male 1 12 oz. Beer is approx .02 BAC, so the limit is about 3-4 cans of bud light (that being said don't drive over 2 drinks ya derp, you're a worse driver than you think you are with any alcohol in your system)

You could not be more off with that. I have a breathalyzer at home that gets calibrated every 6 months. It takes 4-6 beers drinking at a normal pace (beer every 30-45 minutes) to break .08 for me (175 lbs). Obviously everyone is different but for males a good estimate is .02 a serving and for females .03.

Getting a DUI fucking sucks, but im really glad you got something out of it and didnt let it ruin your life. I work at a DUI service place where we provide substance abuse classes. seeing people frustrated and feeling taken advantage of because of the cost and amount of hours in the beginning is really tough and I feel awful, some people are honest and just made a mistake one night. But then those same people who were angry at us and though the world was out to get them, end up saying they are so glad they went through the classes and treatment, and that it changed their life. That is always a great feeling to know we helped in some way despite an awful situation.

But then there are the clients who don't take responsibility and think that since they own a house and have been married for 10 years and have kids and a job, that they shouldn't have to pay for "getting caught." :/

I respect your opinion but realize the entire industry you work in is supported by corrupt politicians and law enforcement preying on tax collection through DUI arrests. If alcohol in your system while driving is such an issue then the legal BAC should be 0.00.

The entire process is such a money grab it’s incredibly pathetic. I don’t condone drinking and driving but if a city/community needs money figure out a better way than preying on innocent people by pulling over everyone after midnight to inquire if they’ve “had anything to drink”

Oh I wholeheartedly agree, I'm not saying my agency or the system in general is saintly or that everyone who gets a DUI deserves the punishment they receive, and I definitely understand and despise the cash grab aspect of it. I feel comfortable where I'm at because my agency is one of the more ethically sound ones that caters to a marginalized community that I happen to be a part of, and our services are of good quality. ultimately we have to follow a state guideline so the real issues lies at the tippy top of the beauracratic ladder. It's certainly not my dream job, I don't want a career in substance abuse treatment because it is almost as morally corrupt as the drug business itself. Rehab facilities will literally give drugs to people to get them in their doors if they have the right insurance. Personally, I'm using this job as a foot in the door to get my masters in social work, where I plan to work within government agencies advocating for people to have easier access and breaking down the beauracratic barriers that prevent the real work from getting done.

Wow I’ve never heard some calling checking for drunk drivers a money grab. This sounds pretty dumb

You’d never willingly let an intruder into your house yet artificial checkpoints can be created to “check for duis” that’s one of the biggest attacks on our personal freedoms I’ve ever heard

I can agree. I got a DUI when I turned 21 but dealing with it the best you can and learning from it is so important. I was lucky enough to be given driving privileges for work since my record was clean except a couple speeding tickets. Yeah your insurance goes up and court costs and such add up but as long as you learn from your mistakes and don't make them again it won't fuck up your life. I never drive after drinking anymore. Between Ubers, friends, and family there's no reason to.

Yeah, the only thing I've seen it long term effect someone is that they can't ever have a career as a driver basically. My step-dad got a DUI almost 30 years ago, not a single traffic ticket / moving violation since, 1 single accident since... denied for driving for Uber. I assume it's the same for any kind of livery.

Yeah, you can technically get your CDL (I think) but no company will ever hire you because the insurance costs are so great. I do believe however that after ten years it is removed from your driving abstract here in NY. So there are court records, but it shouldn't show up on your license.

I may be completely wrong, but my girlfriend does 19A (DOT) compliance for a bussing company and that was the gist of it.

I did the opposite. I let myself be convinced that I was just a fuck up and a bad person and this led me to many many more mistakes

There’s still time. If you can admit it’s a problem, you’re already heading in the right direction.

Genuinely if you need to talk hmu.

I got a DUI in college. I worked two jobs for an entire summer to pay it off. I went on to graduate in four years and I’m now in my masters program with a very well paying job. DUIs can fuck your life up, but only if you let it. One step at a time, you can get through it. Or other bad situations that happen, not just DUIs.

Same story here! Except I got a 2nd dui at 24. 29 years old now and just finally catching back up. 4 years of asking for rides and walking, jail, house arrest, probation and a breathalyzer in my car for a year. Since that I rarely have a drink and if I do I use Uber. I almost feel it was a blessing because I used to drink a lot, never knew when to stop and I was reckless. Since changing my life around I feel healthier, lost over 50 lbs. and am constantly bettering myself.

I feel that ! I got one at 21 right before I moved for grad school. Thought I was going to lose everything. I took the time of moving as a new start, and helped me come to terms and accept changes that I wanted to make with myself. Really fucked up lesson to learn, but I'm glad I handled it the way I did

I got a DUI two weeks before I was supposed to work as a driver on a feature. When I shamefuly told them that I could not do the gig, they told me the grips and electrics were looking for a swing.. I've been working with them non stop since then! But yeah, pure luck.

How did you change your personal life choices for the better? Itd be great for me to get an idea

I’m not going to say the same thing will work for everyone, but this is what worked for me.

Stop going out downtown every night. Try only drinking on the weekend, and ONLY if you have your ride situation figured. It’s not about being the drunkest. I used to get blackout every night because I was delusional and believed it would help me get girls.

Also, Uber wasn’t a thing when I was 21. With Uber and Lyft, dear god just pay the fee! If you can’t afford a Lyft or an Uber, you honestly shouldn’t be out drinking anyways.

I believe that’s my issue. Happy hour. $20 a day adds up and now I’m seeing the affects.. and I’m also the same way. I only drink to get wasted not just catch a buzz.

Like I told another guy up here last night, if you can already admit you know it’s a problem you’re already on the right path. You’re as strong as the decisions you make.

Just remember, it’s YOUR decision when it really boils down to it, so only you can help yourself. Best wishes from me to you, Reddit fam.

I started giving a shit. Before I was a functional alcoholic but I barely did more than I needed to or would take the easy way out. Now I help friends and family, go in nature and clean up, do things to make me a better person such as learning new skills and understanding my flaws and how to fix them. I’ve also become healthier by making sure I get exercise ( I skateboard a lot) and I’m very picky with the foods I eat (no more soda or processed foods) and I’ve also made saving for retirement a huge priority as well as living more frugal.

I think this notion is being lost in this thread: There's a lot of mistakes you can make in your early life...but that doesn't mean it has to define your life. Fuck up, learn from your mistakes and grow.

"Success is not final; failure is not fatal"

I got a DUI at 21 as well and it cost me a shit ton of money, and will for the next decade. But I ended up in court mandated drug counseling (which is actual bullshit, it's just an hour, twice a week until my interim probation is up talking about feelings with a bunch of unmotivated people there for court, like you).

BUT it also got me into attending AA, which is what really made me stop my self-destructive drinking habit. It was really a blessing in disguise.

I agree, my accident was both the WORST and BEST thing to happen to me. Got out of an abusive relationship, got clean, turned my life around... A wake up call is an understatement, I had a second chance.

Thankfully, nobody or anything was injured. Only my car, bank account, licence, and a really adorable stone mailbox.

Good luck getting a decent job though. Forget about anything that needs a professional license

Not true at all. You wouldn’t believe how many professionals have them. I’m talking business execs, lawyers, doctors, with 1-2. It’s a lot more common than you think unfortunately. And in states like California they can only look 7 years back for misdemeanors so assuming you don’t get a felony it won’t haunt you beyond that.

My bm’s dad has like 4-5 and works for FedEx as a driver. I don’t know how but I mean there it is.

My bm’s dad

Baby mama, birth mother, or 💩?

Best mate?

Oh, I didn’t think of that one. Or maybe...

Bride’s mother?

Bestie’s Meemaw?

I definitely wouldn't want a doctor or lawyer with one. I hope there are stipulations that they have to report things like that to their licening board.

A DUI isn't a reflection of you as a person. Every licensing board is going to look at the charge, look at your behavior prior and post, and make an evaluation. They're the ones in a position to make a fair judgement of a person's character before approval of a license, not you. I know several people that are licensed officers in the merchant marine with DUIs, doctors with DUIs, hell, even my mother got one like 40 years ago.

A DUI doesn't mean you're this blatant asshole with a total disrespect for human life and property. It means you made a mistake. Something most people are willing to forgive considering alcohol literally impairs your judgment to begin with.

So get off your high horse. He's stoned, anyway.

It's a choice, not a mistake. A choice that ends too many lives, a sign of poor decision making. It isn't hard to have a DD or call a cab.

The choice was to drink. Alcohol changes people and makes them do stupid things, this is obvious. There are people who intentionally drive recklessly dead sober who aren't demonized, and they are the real assholes.

I hold them both accountable. Bad driving is dangerous. Adding alcohol just makes the situation worse. If you can't control yourself when drinking, you don't need to be drinking at all.

Yeah, it's one thing to be a professional and get a DUI. Good luck becoming one with your record. No licensing board will hand you a license. Christ I can lose my security clearance for getting a traffic fine over $250

I had a manager who has one... Or several; to include fleeing the scene of an accident. (No one is sure of the real number, but we know they exist. At one point someone found one of his mug shots online.) He's a major alcoholic. He's spends more time drunk than sober, yet at the same time he's managing millions of dollars worth of business with that company and pulling in a six figure income to boot. (Which I imagine gets pissed down the drain on more booze.)

Those kind of people exist. Granted, they represent a minority, but there's a lot more of them out there than you'd think.

Im actually thinking about not drinking at parties because I want to drive back home. Uber would be more expensive. Shiit. It was about $30 just to Uber it to my cousins party last time... just to GO. Anyways I feel like I would be able to talk to girls better sober anyways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ hahaha.

Sorta, but nobody trusts the sober guy chatting up the drunk chicks.

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My dude consider how you sound right now

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Careful with the "not drinking but taking sips from a beer", in my experience that leads to getting drunk

That’s pretty much how I start getting drunk yea

Don't fuck drunk chicks sober. It's considered rape by many people.

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Not take advantage of someone who is indisposed. People aren't saying you can't chat up a woman who has had a drink or two, but a person who is drunk isn't in the right state of mind to consent to sex, and if you're sober you should 100% know this and know better.

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It's your phrasing, man. Reread your comments from the perspective others are seeing. You're probably not a huge sleaze looking to have sex with drunk girls, but your comments aren't exactly dripping with respect for women.

Case in point: you never wrote about talking to sober women, just drunk and tipsy ones.

Because your immediate response to “Don’t fuck drunk girls” was essentially, “How will I get laid then!?”

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And yet you keep talking about fucking drunk girls.

And he keeps asking questions on how he can do it without being a creep while ignoring the answer of “you just don’t do it...”

Even somebody who is mildly drunk is going to have diminished mental faculties. When you're sober you have the power and advantage, thus it's morally wrong (and very illegal) to have any sexual contact with them.

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People are saying to hit on sober women. If they'll only go home with you because they're tipsy or drunk then you're in the wrong.

Not sure if I'm being trolled, but in case I'm not, then yes. A sober person should not be having sex with a drunk person.

then wtf do I do

Holy shit

Please tell me you’re trolling right now... there’s no way you’re actually sitting here trying to justify rape...

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You were coming off reaaaaallly bad lol

It's creepy because you almost prey on vulnerable (drunk) people who cant make reasonable decisions because they're intoxicated. I'm not saying it would be more acceptable if you were also drunk but it does make it more like drunk consensual sex instead of taking advantage of someones condition and impaired judgement. Faking being drunk to get drunk people to sleep with you is morally wrong.

Creepy sober guy is pretty obvious. Nothing wrong with being sober at a party, but being sober and hitting on drunk chicks is weird. Parties are focused on getting drunk, so if you're sober you have an unfair advantage on women which essentially turns into you taking advantage of them.

If you want to be sober and meet women, do so in a sober setting. Faking drunk to hit on drunk women is even worse. That's just being a terrible person.

I'm not sure it's necessarily being a terrible person, it depends on intent, but the external assumption is going to lean toward the negative. How well you're previously acquainted plays a significant role though, I suppose rando's does make it a bit of another ballpark.

So you are saying any guy who isnt drunk at a party is a creepy predator? Someone who just doesnt drink but is around drunk people is also a creepy predator? So I go out with friends and I'm the DD but this cute girl wants to talk, am I allowed to talk to her or would that be me submitting subconciously to my inner rapist that you believe dwells within all men?

That’s not what they’re saying at all. You can be sober at a party, you can talk to girls, you can talk to drunk girls. But if you’re sober and you sleep with a heavily inebriated girl, all she has to do the next day is decide she didn’t want to have done it, and you’re fucked

The first sentence says creepy sober guy and the rest of his post is implying pretty clearly that sober men at parties are creepy...

If someone gets drunk, sleeps with someone who's sober, and then when they're no longer drunk decides that it was a bad decision, that doesn't mean they were raped unless we're talking about being so drunk that they can't stand/walk/talk, or unless the sober person spiked the drunk person's drink, of course.

thats not true, if they werent in a place to give consent, and you were sober then thats rape

Serious question: Do you think being drunk means you can't consent to sex? The reason I ask is because it seems to be a hotly debated topic that nobody can really agree on.

Right, unfortunately in today’s climate it doesn’t always work that way. In the court of public opinion, it isn’t innocent until proven guilty

Innocent until guilty should always be the rule, not the exception, or else society is going to head into a very, very dark place.

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I’m not saying it is. But my friend was sober at a party in college and slept with a pretty wasted girl. The next day she regretted it and tried to call rape. There were no legal actions or anything, but his reputation was ruined. People tend to believe the girl in these situations

And if you're in school, you can be shit faced drunk and sleep with a drunk girl and all she has to do the next day is decide she didn't want to have done it, and you're fucked. In this day and age, sober sex is the only actually safe sex until you're in a relationship.

Or buy a can of really cheap beer, dump it all out, refill with water, and there you go.

$30 is a hell of a lot cheaper than $12,000

Wish I had spent the $30

$11,000 and 2 years of hell on my end. Uber didn't exist at that point. Still should have taken a cab...

Why 2 years of hell?

Probably revoked his/her license

For 2 years though? In the states i think it's typically 3-12 months. Must've been pretty high BAC or caused serious damage to get it revoked for that long

A lot of fucked up things happened, but at it's core a DUI in Washington is an automatic 12 month suspension.

Edit: you don't get "time served" on your license suspension there. At least when I went through it

Double Edit: this was 10 years ago.

8 court dates took 15 months. My lawyer literally didn't show up to one. Then 12 months of probation, and 6 months of alcohol treatment classes. This was my first criminal offense for the record.

It was actually about $60 (front and back), but yeah I get your point.

That's 100 parties, a $3,000 car, a flat screen, xbox, PlayStation, Wii, and gaming pc, and a very expensive date for an alternative to the girl you would have been talking to drunk.

Mind if I ask why it costed so much? Was that the fine the court gave you? Or the damage you caused to your car or something?

You gotta pay the lawyers or your getting a public defender who will urge you to plee as quick as possible and take what ever the DA gives em. You don't plee you go to trial and get fucked harder than the plee.

Louisiana is only like two grand after lawyer and everything

still a lot of money and it affects your career depending on what you do

Yep, I had one on top of a bunch of other stupid arrest in college and it lost me a financial analyst position after signing the contract.

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Please stop drunk driving.

Some of us have had people we care very greatly about permanently removed from our lives because people like you are so selfish. It's disturbing how nonchalant you are about it.

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Whoops, looks like I took the troll bait.

There's an episode of How I Met Your Mother that covers your theory called the Drunk Train.

The drunk girls will not fall for your sober shenanigans.

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Don’t forget that even if you can find car insurance it is the absolute max Z rate they can hit you with. I can’t afford my insurance now and I haven’t had an accident in 12 years.

A DWI might stay on your record for life but car insurance companies can only see it for 3 years, so i think you might have other issues going on

That is actually extremely useful information to me rn. Thank you.

No dui for me. Sorry if I lead on but I just have a shitty plan with State Farm. My roommate got a DUI in college and his insurance for those three years were astronomical.

Also, getting a job with a record is a nightmare. It's not cute.

A DUI isn't criminal in all states. I know in the state I grew up in (NJ) it isn't. It'll fuck up your life financially, but the answer to "do you have a criminal record" is no.

In Canada you have a criminal record... Edit; I mean to say it's a criminal conviction in Canada if you blow over the limit of .08, some provinces and territories have their own lower limit that does not result in a criminal conviction.

Even just one incident?

Yes. It's a criminal conviction in Canada. Although apparently in the US it is not.

I unfortunately know a lot of people that were dumb in their early 20's and ended up getting DUI's. One is my best friend and she's an elementary school teacher. It won't ruin your life.

Very true, and men especially should know: 90+% of all services for the homeless are for women/kids in most states. I'm being evicted at the end of the month due to DUI and there won't be anywhere to go. The waiting list for housing can be 4-5 years even with total disability, and that's for women I know, not men.

It's insane that anyone would intentionally take the risk to drive drunk, and my only consolation is that I never did. But legally, it doesn't matter if you meant to do it, or whether you were delusional during psychosis and thought your apartment was on fire and that you had been poisoned and were driving to a hospital. I'm not in my 20s, but it's basically like being re-set back to being a teenager, back to minimum wage jobs.

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Nah, not all women. Mothers. Single mothers mostly. So, it really is to benefit the kids basically and it seems fair they get priority to having a warm place to sleep and food in their bellies. I hate this "pussy pass" shit, it's delusional. Single child-free women are in the same boat as single child-free men.

Can't speak for everywhere but where I come from there are far more women only shelters which allow single women without kids then there are shelters for men. Not calling it a pussy pass but it definitely favours women.

How did you get a DUI without drinking, was it something like pot?

I edited my comment to add 'intentionally'. I was over the legal limit for alcohol but had no recollection of having had anything to drink due to the psychosis - driving under the influence (of anything) is not something I would do intentionally. That's what I meant, and it really matters only in terms of my own conscience. But it's important to me in any case.

Wasn't a good day. Ran out of the house in the middle of the night and was stopped a block or so up the road. Had smelled rotten fire, couldn't breathe, chest/lungs were burning, etc., was the delusion that set me running out of the house thinking it was on fire, and that I had been poisoned. It's a fucked-up scenario, but makes no difference legally - it's strict liability. For the courts, it's all the same as if I had just been smashed at a party and trying to drive home. Makes no difference, which is important to know. My lawyers have defended people who have also sleep-driven (e.g., on Ambien) but it doesn't help besides possibly for the mandated drug/alcohol sessions.

Edit: For anyone else who feels a need to construct my entire medical history in their imaginations to justify a childish rant - yes, don't worry: I have had excellent help for the psychosis since the incident, as well as a few underlying things. Thank you for any concern!

It shouldn’t make a difference, because either way, you’re posing a threat to other people. If you think you’re in danger and need to get to a hospital when you’re drunk, call a damn ambulance or an Uber.

If you drove drunk/in an altered state of mind once without intending to or even realizing it, what’s to stop you from doing it again, and again, and again, until you eventually kill someone? Your explanation doesn’t make you sound like any less of a danger to the general public. If you get delusions that make you drive under dangerous conditions and you know in advance that this is a possibility, then you need to not have access to a car, or give your keys to someone you trust when you’re not driving. You can’t just shrug and let it happen, and then act like you’re being arrested on some technicality. You were arrested for a DUI because you committed one.

If you hit someone because you were driving when you were out of your mind, they’d be just as dead as they would be if you had come from a house party where you did too many keg stands. It doesn’t matter because, respectfully, it’s not about you. It’s about the danger you posed to society.

If you think you’re in danger and need to get to a hospital when you’re drunk, call a damn ambulance or an Uber.

Didn't know. That's what I said. In any case, I know the law. Feel free to vent, but I know it all already.

You're adding in details of your own invention in order to work yourself up a lather, doing the Facebook mom thing, but feel free.

You claim to know the law, but you’re whining about the consequences of your own actions as if the law is to blame for the fact that you‘re a criminal.

I’m not “working myself into a lather”, I’m annoyed that despite the fact that you’re being punished for the crime you committed, you clearly still don’t get it. You fucked up. You deserve exactly what’s happening to you. That’s why it’s happening. You’re not the victim here and nobody feels sorry for you.

Enjoy getting evicted and ruining your life because you chose to be irresponsible about managing your mental illness. Feel free.

Again, you have no idea what you're saying, or how I feel about any of it (other than that I'm warning people NOT to do this shit, or think that any excuse will make a difference - just the opposite of what you seem to think I'm saying). You've got quite the imagination though!

'Night, mom.

DWI is now much more common. (Driving while impaired) You don't need to have any alcohol in your system at all to get a ticket/arrested. It's pretty much up to the officers discretion. If you're on high blood pressure meds and get pulled over for an odd traffic violation you can be at risk for a DWI.

There are also a handful of states where the state licensing board takes your license away JUST FOR GETTING CHARGED. Diabetes mess up the breathalyzer? Too bad. Prove you weren't drunk? Too bad. Judge dismisses the case. Too bad. You lose your license for 90 days minimum and have to take DWI classes to get it back.

This is very true. My lawyers have defended people who have sleep-driven, such as on Ambien, and they were all convicted. It's no excuse (nor should it be) but definitely something to look out for if you're taking medications that might conflict with alcohol. Even a small amount of alcohol can be considered DUI if you're impaired for any reason, even if it's under 0.08.

My roommate who has so much money just went to court for her 3rd dui in 4 years. This is the first time there are repercussions- community service. ON HER THIRD DUI!!! Money talks ugh

Hope thay beer was worth 10k you drinkers

My tip for a non-drinking drink: soda water with lime. Zero calories, tastes nice, looks like a gin and tonic.

This isn't much of a 'tip'. This is the standard drink for people who aren't drinking, but either don't wish to discuss why the aren't, or want to appear as though they are. It's so well known that it even appears in that God-awful white-washed '21' film. In which the pit bosses immediately have their attention drawn to the person who orders it, since it is so suspicious.

I agree it's quite a nice low cal drink for non drinkers. But not as a way to hide drinking status.

I mean, the point isn't to broadcast to everybody you are drinking soda water with lime, otherwise that defeats the purpose.

What makes the movie white-washed, aside from it not being a very good movie?

The fact that many of the main characters in real life were Asian, and they changed them to white in the movie

Wait hold up that was based on a true story?

Yeah. Well loosely based. It’s based on the book 21: Bringing Down the House. Written by a dude who told the story of his Asian friend who counted cards in college. And if I remember correctly all the other members of his team were Asian too. Apparently It’s easier to get away with if you’re Asian than white, can’t remember the exact details of why. Something to do with young Asian tech guys with money being less suspicious

This is how I am. I only drink at home. I have a friend that got a DUI and he was on probation for about 5 years. All said and done he spent close to $10k. Don’t drink and drive kids.

10k doesn’t factor in lost wages. The reality of a dui is that the costs are person dependent and some people it will cost 10 while others it will cost 100+. Moral of the story is uber, lyft, or a taxi is always cheaper, even when you wake up in the wrong state. https://nypost.com/2018/03/01/drunk-bro-blacked-out-and-took-1600-uber-ride/

The bar I was at least night had a sign by the bathroom saying the local police will drive you home if you are drunk. Pretty crazy.

I think this is pretty common. Coos want to keep the community safe and that includes not having a drunk person out and about in a car. Just be sure to call the local number and not 911, and be polite and thankful.

Oh I would never do that to them. I think it's great that they do but I work in public safety and I couldn't show my face again if I called them and not a Uber

Most of my mates will straight up not drink if they want to drive. It's not worth the gamble or trying to work out if your few drinks over several hours will put you over the limit, especially with so many variables at play.

Dude the way DUI laws are set up is fucking absurd. You have a bottle of NyQuil in your car? Look sleepy? DUI.

Arrest and charges are up to the officer. Everything else is up to the court, always fight that shit even if you did it.

Driving while sleepy is actually just as dangerous as driving drunk.

Also, the prosecutor decides whether to press charges. If you're arrested for DUI but there is no evidence of being under the influence of something, then a lawyer would be a good investment. And if you were under the influence: first of all, fuck that person -- the selfish prick; and secondly, definitely get a lawyer.

No. The arrest is up the police, known as the arresting charges. The DA decides if they are going to file charges.

Man that's shit as. Here you get breathalysed and they'll hold you if you blow above the limit and follow it up with a blood test to confirm.

How often do you go to parties?

Not enough. lol

Plus the money you save not buying alcohol you're easily saving 80-100 bucks on that night out

So drive to the party, Uber home, then Uber back to your car the next day early when the rates are lower.

This is pretty sensible. Spending a lot of time getting drunk during your 20s can be a big timewaster. Parties can be plenty of fun sober if you think of them as an opportunity to meet new people and discover new ideas rather than a chance to get drunk and have a predictably fun time. If you want to get hammered you can always do that safely at home, but it's just not really great for your health or wallet.

If you do start driving to parties, maybe get a jar (or, more realistically these days, savings account) and stick the money you're saving on alcohol and uber in it. I bet it will add up pretty fast.

Also, people love a safe, trustworthy designated driver. Being able to take the party to the next place can or drop people home and chat to them on the way can be fun! Years ago a friend of mine got to drive a reasonably famous band to a gig they were late for because he was the only sober person with a car. He had a great night.

Curious how much you would allocate to the jar of savings. Is it for each drink compared to what it would cost at a bar? A party should be a comparable expense to drinking at home.

Or do you suggest putting $10k into a jar and seeing how many Uber rides that will get you instead of a DUI?

I guess it would depend on the night out in question. Maybe I'd use the app to see how much I'd saved, do some quick math along the lines of [average cost of each drink that night][estimated number of drinks you would have consumed at that event]. You'd have to minus gas and parking though.

If you wanted to be REALLY thrifty you could become an Uber driver and catch the after party rush when you're done soberly partying!

I think this would be a great habit to start! You get to go to parties, watch drunk people do stupid shit, not be a drunk person doing stupid shit, you gain a reputation for being reliable, you'll be practicing self control, and you 100% know the person driving you home is sober.

I wish I had thought to do that. Self control gets more important the older you get. And reputation means everything. Especially now that more people are on social media. We could meet for coffee, hit it off, and add each other on Facebook. Then, when I find out that you're my brother's best friend's cousin (and this isn't small town, these people live throughout your country), I ask about you. They tell me how you were a little shit who kicked their puppy and how quickly you go through girls and that you owe child support (for the child you didn't tell me about) but are fighting it every step of the way because the mother of your child is "a cheating cunt who doesn't deserve a dime." And they can price this with fb posts.*

You're fucked.

*edit: all of which is peppered with photos of you being drunk as a fucking skunk and a nasty ho at trashy parties.

Go for it man, I've had to stop drinking at parties for a little while now and it can be quite liberating being completely sober. Once you do it a few times talking to people gets easier :)

not drinking is a thing you know. I've mostly accepted it now in my 30's and I was a booze hound in my 20's.

I stopped drinking about 6/7 years ago and would always offer to be designated driver when going out with friends. They would each spot me $5-$10 petrol money and at the end of the night I would be up a bunch of cash. It’s cheaper for your friends than Uber or taxis and your brunch the next day is paid for :)

If you cant afford an uber you cant afford to party. Be responsible. Hair brained ideas like not drinking at a party will leave you in a bad spot.

This guy has never consumed alcohol.

I don't like being drunk, and I've seen first hand how much a DUI can fuck your shit up, so I'm always happy to dd

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Also, for a note on the opposite side: If you are drinking hard, late into the night or both, you can go to sleep and still wake up in the morning legally drunk.

I got a second job in a bar that had events. Comedy, Dj’s, bands, etc. Earned money instead of spending it and working a bar like that was social as well as entertainment. (Except for the three weeks solid of hearing that guy Strassman and his puppets).

You can always drive there and uber back. Or car pool to there or split on a cab. Splitting makes everything so much cheaper.

You can always drive there and uber back.

How would I get my car back though lmao.

Splitting makes everything so much cheaper.

You're right. I forgot about splitting.

You have no friends or family that can help you get the car? Maybe one of the people you drove to the party?

There are occasions worth spending money like that. Just budget them in accordingly.

*drives home in first gear

Most people who go out on the town or to a party are ubering with a friend/group of friends. You split the cost.

My party life described perfectly. Scared of getting a DUI so I don't drink. Parties are subsequently lame because everyone does.

Go with a group if you can and split the cost. Or try to find any promo or referral codes for discounts or free rides. Or, do what I do when I know I have to drive home. Make yourself a drink, throw some ice in it if you can to keep it cold, and just hold it and sip it all night. People won't ask you why you're not drinking or encourage you to drink, and you won't get drunk and not be able to drive home after. Doesn't really work with beer, tho. Sipping warm beer is not ideal.

Or just don't drink. That's also perfectly fine.

or just take turns being dd, uber expensive cuz

This is why I haven’t had a drink in nearly a year; I’d rather drive and not have to worry about driving the day after.

/r/humblebrag :P

You will be amazed how fine it is to stay sober at parties.

You need to get into road biking

honestly I don't understand how people go to clubs and parties and get messed up. it ALWAYS ends badly the next day with a "why tf did I do that" thought.

don't get me wrong, I love drugs (including alcohol), but I reserve them for hanging out by myself or with mates

To fuck.

but you can fuck sober and it's just as g. also if I want to fuck someone I'm not going to do it at somebody else's party, and if I'm at my house then I can use all the drugs I want

This guy definitely doesn't fuck, and possibly doesn't party.

your right I don't fuck. I also wouldn't fuck someone at someone's party. clubs are my shit

I used to drive to parties because I didn’t wanna get the bus. Didn’t get laid either, bad deal

Mike’s hard lemonade is your friend. On Friday night I was at a party and drank 3 bottles of MHL and two cans of this wicked apple drink. It was enough for me to be in the mood (like increased confidence) without being drunk. And it tastes pretty good too.

Get a breathalyzer you can get an accurate one for around $100 dollars.

Given that DUI charges are so strong, why is it that I sometimes see local police reports on guys that have a half dozen or more DUIs? How are they not in jail, broke, or both?

They do go to jail, they do loose their licenses and jobs. But Alcholism is a serious disease and they will continue to drink until they themselves decide to stop, regardless of consequences.

I have a great amount of empathy for people with alcohol addiction, but not for those who repeatedly get behind the wheel and endanger everyone else's lives.

Oddly enough, some people with alcoholism are successful and can weather the financial storm.

Some lose their license, just continue to drive anyway, and then just ignore the collections calls. If they don't have any assets, there's nothing that they can really collect on. (You can still go to jail for not paying the associated fees mind you, and then still owe afterwards.)

I honestly have no idea.

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None of that works

I prosecute hundreds a year. It works.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE listen to this. I’ve had to rely on Uber and lift for the last year and it has been crushing financially. I am a PM in construction and have to visit numerous job sites every week and my office is 25 miles from my house. I went from filling my tank two or three times a week to spending 600-800/month on rides.

National average cost of a dui in the US is $10,000, the majority of this being increased insurance. And this is just actually money coming out of your pocket, it doesn’t include things like lost wages from having to miss work after being arrested or for court cases, if you receive jail time, or if oh lose your job and have to find another.

Designated Drivers. Campus Shuttle. Party @ home.

I've always told people: Just look at a cab as a cheap impaired charge.

That and you're not a complete fucking tool risking people's lives.

That's always my answer. People will scoff at me when they see me get dropped off at the bar or restaurant I intend to drink at. "Dude you took an Uber to a bar 10 miles from your house?". I will never come close to spending 10 grand on Uber rides in my entire life. I can drop that easily on my first DUI no problem.

My cousin estimated his dui cost him 30-40k between taxis, lawyers, lost work, increased insurance, getting device installed in his car, etc

You're going to need uber and taxis anyway. It's going to fuck up your job search, you will have to explain it to every prospective employer. That's the real punishment.

Personally, I think they should come off after 5 years because an OVI at 20 has nothing to do with your ability to be an engineer, or whatever you've chosen to do, at 29. The "being screwed for life" thing just makes people worse off at best, makes them continue to fuck up because they dont have hope at worst.

How much does it cost?

Depends on the state. $10000 where I live, though the worst thing is having the arrest on record.

This sounds about right for my state too. Known one too many fuck up their life over this. Uber is a godsend to partying.

Yeah, you can pay off that fine. But it can make you a felon.

Holy shit😳😳 that's more than 5 million in my currency

I got one labor day 2 years ago. It cost me to date 17000 (7000 in lawyer fees) and I still have about 3000 to pay in blow and go fees and parole

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Mine was priceyer due too getting a great lawyer and all the pre trail alcohol abuse classes and groups I attended to show to the judge I was taking it seriously and making a change. Which in my case help immensely due to my high BAC reading

I'm sorry you to go through that and hope it all goes well for you

Tens of thousands of dollars, and consequences that can basically follow you forever. Awful insurance rates, a criminal record, and serious limitations on your ability to travel. Can't even go to Canada with a DUI on your record.

most used cars are cheaper than 1 DUI

I always tell people who ask me why I don't drive, sortof jokingly, that the best way to avoid a DUI is never to drive. In all seriousness though it's a valid way to live in the city. I get more exercise than someone that drives, and am never at risk of taking someone else's life with my vehicle. I'm not sure why but it would really bother me, and that risk just hasn't been worth it yet.

Most people think that's crazy, but I think car insurance in your 20's is crazy.

Legal secretary here. DUI's out this way run poor souls a minimum of 15,000 over the span of their too long implementation. To the people I work for, DUI's are viewed as quite a cruel punishment with far harsher terms than many murders receive.

Tell this to the families of people these assholes kill every year.

My sister was killed by a texting teen. I'm not saying I agree, it's simply the view point of several attorneys around a town comprised of functional alcoholic native Americans driving home to their families on back roads getting hit at road blocks and college students walking home from parties in a small town where uber and taxis aren't available.

I wouldn't say a DUI by itself will ruin your life, you can definitely bounce back, but it will absolutely sideline you for years. There's also huge issues with traveling after getting one, for instance Canada can deny you access to the country for life if you have a DUI. I think there are ways to get approval but it looks like an absolute nightmare to navigate

How much is that?

Girl I knew since elementary drove drunk, got into an accident and killed a young teenage girl. She's in prison for 10 years... her entire 20's wasted, including the loss of an innocent young life. Don't do it!

Guy I knew was highly intelligent. Top achiever in school and extremely likely to have a well-earning career in his field, while also helping others based on the type of work he was entering into. He was just an all-round really nice dude. I don’t think anyone would ever have a bad thing to say about him.

Some idiot drunk driver stacked into his car at high speed as he was driving back from a party. He survived, but suffered brain injuries. Spent months in rehab re-learning how to walk and tie up his shoelaces again. Sadly, his friend who was in the car with him died.

He‘s still a lovely guy, but when you speak to him, there’s a vacancy there. His train of thought will lapse mid-conversation and talking to him ends up being like having several mini conversations because his memory and attention span just aren’t there anymore. Thankfully he seems happy, but it looks like he’ll probably live with his parents for the remainder of his adult life and will never work again due to his cognitive, motivational, and memory deficits. His entire life’s trajectory was changed by some asshole’s selfish decision... and even still, he was one of the lucky ones.

I fucking loathe drink drivers. Don’t be one. Don’t get in the car with one. If someone you know does it, openly tell them how shitty they are for it. Ive chosen to look “uptight” rather than join a group of passengers with a drunk behind the wheel, and I’d do it again. Some people even got offended (driver and other passengers) when I said no to getting in the car. The selfishness is unbelievable. I’d rather walk all night to get home than condone that behaviour or put myself at risk.

Edit: aww, thank you for my first gold, kind stranger! :)

I fucking loathe drink drivers. Don’t be one.

I can't reiterate this enough. My cousin was 18 and had just graduated high school. He was 6'8", smart, gorgeous, and had his whole life spread out before him. He was going to take over the family ranch that his dad built for him.

Two weeks after graduation, he was out with friends and riding home from a party. They all had been drinking, including the driver. The driver misjudged a sharp turn and the jeep they were riding in went down an embankment. The driver and other passenger were ejected from the car and survived with injuries. My cousin, being so tall, was pinned in the jeep. He died on impact.

He died on Father's Day.

I’m so sorry for your loss. 18 is far too young.

Eff, man. That is absolutely tragic. I’m so sorry for your family’s loss.

What's worse is that one of the officers on scene recognized my cousin. He knew my aunt and uncle and couldn't bear to make that call for them to give positive identification. He called my aunt's brother to come down and identify my cousin's body.

jesus christ that's horrible. I'm so sorry to hear this. It seemed like a loss for everyone that day.

im going to go home

Damn. That last sentence hit like a punch in the gut. So sorry for your loss.

I'm in EMT school right now, we're currently covering how to control major bleeding. Some of the images we have to look at are really difficult to stomach.

But comments like this are what make me remember why this field is so important and why I chose it in the first place. If I can prevent a nightmare like that from becoming reality, it's worth the disturbing things I know I'm going to encounter.

Thank you for doing what you do. Remember that even though you won't be able to save everyone, you can still provide them comfort and companionship as they die. That is a great gift to give even at such a sad time.

For a moment I thought you were someone I went to high school with, but then realized the person from my school was about 15/16 when he died in a roll-over in a very similar situation to what you just described. The family had just lost their dad a few months prior, so the boy's death was especially hard on everyone.

I was going to comment, "ok but why is height relevant"

Then I got to the part where his height was relevant

6'8"

It'd be less tragic if he were short then?

My cousin, being so tall, was pinned in the jeep. He died on impact.

Oh, now I feel like a douche.

6’8” is absolutely giant how could you not mention it

Just seems kind of odd, without the context of the ending, for that to be the first thing mentioned. As if that was somehow the characteristic that made him most valuable. If he was 4'11, it wouldn't have been mentioned in the same breath as the potential he had.

Yeah, that was there for a reason. :)

Yeah, I had a bad first impression. People on reddit tend to throw out 6'X" heights to emphasize how valuable a man is and I thought "wow it's so pervasive that we're even humble bragging about dead tall guys instead of talking about what the guy was about. Literally the first thing he mentioned".

Is there a name for this dramatic story telling ending of stories? Here is a fact. Another dramatic fact. Real shit.

I dunno. Should we call it "the hammer?" You know, to hammer it home?

I second this.

What say you, redditors

He was 6'8", smart, gorgeous, and had his whole life spread out before him

Basically a Chad. Good riddance

Ive chosen to look “uptight” rather than join a group of passengers with a drunk behind the wheel, and I’d do it again.

Good. If someone gives you shit for being "uptight" about not wanting to ruin or end someone's life, it's time to find a new group to party with.

"Uptight" for a few minutes of judgement, versus murder, death, kill, prison, guilt, grief, survivor remorse, brain damage, child killing?

I'll take "Uptight" for "Continuing my nice life", Bill.

Not only is an accident MORE likely with a DUI, but it's also an avoidable one!

This. Also this for your personal morals. Fuck anyone who tells you you're 'uptight' for upholding your personal standards.

I was a dumbass as a teen and let people influence me into thinking ' it's ok' when it really wasn't.

I work with tradesmen. Its appalling how many think its ok.

I haven't dealt with tradesmen specifically, but I've encountered a lot of guys who try to convince me that it's normal and I needed to be less conservative cause it was boring and old.

Its ridiculous really. I put it on the same level as openly advocating for someone to commit suicide. Its never ok.

I completely agree, I think when you've been put in thst situation, it's sometimes difficult to say. 'hey this is not okay'

Not for me. I quit a job in the past because the boss openly said that a guy should jump off the roof of a house we were framing and was clear and open about why I was quitting. I've hitched home from a party before because I refused to get in a vehicle with a drunk driver.

Oh my gosh. That's insane. I actually quit a job because one of the owners got a bit too handsy with me.

I've just found that if I'm around people who seem nice and stuff, but get a bit touchy I'm unsure what I should do. I'm probably more conservative than most people about physical touching. It's easy to say no to someone that's a stranger or I find creepy. But much more difficult to someone I'm fond of or like as a person

You're a woman I assume? I can't even come close to understanding what that must be like. If they are someone you respect its even more important to demand the same level of respect from them. Don't let people walk all over you. If there is one thing I've learned its that no matter how much you let someone walk over you they'll always complain that you aren't flat enough.

Yes I am. I don't consider myself attractive enough to regularly gain attention from guys, but it's a bit alarming when I reflect on the guys that have come onto me and it's been a bit too fast, and too much. I get to a point where I'm wondering if I am just too uptight about it and to relax a little as for most people, physical flirting is ok. I freak out a little or freeze when it happens.

You make a good point, in the end of relationships where I did get walked all over, in the end I as still blamed for it going to shit. I spent a long time trying to work out what I did wrong and how I could've fixed it, but I realsied that sometimes, even if I gave them everything. It was never gonna be enough

True. It's so hard. My buddy always gives me shit for not wanting to hang out with him because he drives drunk and leaves me at the bar saying that hell kill himself if I'm not his friend. So I keep hanging out with him

saying that hell kill himself if I'm not his friend. So I keep hanging out with him

This is really unhealthy.

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Damn, sounds like a Mason.

My husband's cousin did this. Friend died, he was in hospital for over a year. He's progressed to living in his own apartment (assisted living), competes in special Olympics and has 2 part time jobs.

He doesn't remember a lot of stuff from before, but he does remember that he used to be "cool". He gets sad a lot.

“He doesn't remember a lot of stuff from before, but he does remember that he used to be "cool". He gets sad a lot.”

Goddamn, that’s sad :(

I had to burn bridges with a former friend and current roommate over this.

I have a relative who lost all five of her children in one split second when two drunk teenagers went racing down a hilly back road and shredded through the back of her minivan. I don't tolerate that shit.

I've argued with people on reddit who are convinced it's okay because: "I drive better when I'm drunk" or "What am I supposed to do if it's 3am and nobody is around to take me home?" or even better "it was okay because I was going slow through an empty neighborhood."

The cognitive dissonance some people have towards their own bad choices is absolutely amazing. How about this - if you ever want to drive drunk understand that there's a significantly high chance you will kill or maim yourself or an innocent person. What the law does to you is nothing compared to the fact that you were okay getting behind the wheel of a murder machine in full knowledge what you were doing was wrong and could have seriously hurt other people.

Drunk driving is one of those crimes where I actually wish the punishment was stricter than what it is. Clearly people do not care about others enough to not do it, so the only other alternative is to have the punishment be SO BAD that it's not worth risking it. If they're that selfish, make the punishment fit the crime better.

Ugh. I hate the excuses. I’ve had no way to get home at 3am lots of times. You know what I did? I crashed at a friend’s place, called an Uber or slept in my (tiny and uncomfortable) car.

Right??? I’m an asshole with a history of badddd substance abuse. You know what I don’t do and never have? Drive drunk. There’s always options. Sometimes they suck but for me it’s a hard limit. You may end up sleeping somewhere shitty and scurrying to get somewhere but it beats the alternative.

Drunk getting out of a fatal RTA:

"Uh, what happened? Where did they come from, idiots!"

Seriously fuck drunk drivers. I lost a friend from college to a fucktard drunk driver. She had just decided on Yale for grad school and was coming back after a celebratory road trip when she was hit. This world is less one amazing individual who would have gone on to do so much and help so many, but no. Some drunk fucker had to take her life out while he got to live.

Same. My cousin was in an accident with his father. Hit by a drunk driver. His father died and he suffered extreme brain damage. He was athletic, gorgeous, smart, in college, all around great guy. Now he rides around town on a adult sized tricycle most days and bags groceries while living with his mom.

Man, that is so rough. I’m so sorry (for both your cousin/uncle and the people who love them).

One of my close friends had a brother who was much like this guy you described. Except in this case he was the drunk driver. He had a hugely bright future ahead of him.

But one day he left a party with his keys, blacked out drunk. He still swears he doesn't even remember getting in the car and he wasn't known for being someone who drove under the influence. But nobody stopped him from leaving the party and sure enough he killed three people from a neighboring school in a car crash.

He remembers the crash and the aftermath. He served almost a decade in prison but got out early on extremely good behavior.

He has since successfully rehabilitated into society and become a productive member and clearly his crime (and subsequent imprisonment) haunt him. But most of his 20's were wasted and he didn't get his life back together for a long, long time because no matter who you are, how sorry you are, or how big of an unintentional mistake it was, something like that on your record makes a good future a thousand times harder.

Sure some people cheat the system. The rich and so on. But most of the time even if it was the only time you ever drove drunk all it takes is that one to be the one and it's game over for a good portion of your entire life.

Cant agree more with you. I coach one of the sports teams at our University and found out one of the better players regularly drove while drunk. I pulled him aside one day and asked why. His reasoning was that someone needed to drive, and he was basically boasting that he was a “better driver when drunk”

I told him about one of my best friends who was killed by a drunk driver, and told him if he did it again, he would be off the team and I would be calling the police. He got all huffy, and left the pitch.

Used this as a lesson for the whole team. We now have a code that we swear by; A team member will not let ANYBODY drink and drive.

The next week I get a call at 2am. It’s the player, he’s absolutely wasted and sounds really depressed. He lets me know that he drove to the pub, and was about to drive home when he called me. I picked him up and drove him home, but I swear to god I’ve never been more proud of anyone before in my life..

We all know too many people who have lost someone to drunk driving.. Just hoping enough people can spread the message far enough to make a difference.

My sister in law does drink and drive and when I found out I called her out on it called her a deadshit all the names i could think of. I seriously hate people who drink and drive but not more then people who text and drive. I walk my daughter to school every day and ive been clipped by a car because they were texting. Fuck any bastard who texts and drives. Im normally a gentle kind hearted person but honestly people who text and drive just ugh..

Went to high school with a guy who was an amazing martial artist, and had plans to open a dojo with his brother after high school. They had their plan and they were sticking to it.

Then he got smacked by a drunk driver while riding his motorcycle. We didn’t think he was going to make it until four weeks later he came out of the coma.

When I saw him again a few months after the accident, you could just tell he was half-gone. He had to think about every word he was saying to you, making sure it was the right one. There was also that coating of glaze that would wrap his eyes if you spoke too long or too fast. Like you could watch him gradually lose the plot.

The worst was that it completely trashed his motor skills. The dojo turned into a landscaping company. His entire life was irrevocably altered because someone else made a poor decision.

God this makes me sick. I have a neighbor who drunk drives constantly. I tried to get him to stop with him giving no cares. He has one DUI from a few years ago and just got his CDL back from that. The local town police have asked me about him but there isn't much they can do unless they catch him at the right time and he doesn't drink at the bars as much any more so that makes it hard. Knowing that he might kill someone some day and there is nothing I can do about it just rips at me.

Trust me, you don’t want to drink and drive. Either you die driving drunk and your family is attempting to mourn, but they’re looked at like you deserved it. Or you kill someone else. And some family had their loved one taken away and they are angry at you, at god and the world.

I sit down with both sides, it’s always tragic. Beyond what people realize.

I’m also going to add in here, if you’re hooked on heroin, get help. Just. Get. Help. I’ve had more heroin jobs in the past year than I’ve ever had in years prior. One of them being a good friend of mine who nobody knew he was shooting up. Families of those who died of heroin overdoses are so open about it because they know how difficult it is someone to stop. They watched it happen, and they want to tell everyone so it doesn’t happen again.

Listen kids, no drinking and driving. No heroin. Please. This is not the kind of work I want, I want little old ladies and men who have lived long and happy lives. I don’t want families losing their children, because that’s what happens.

If you have a drug or alcohol problem, SEEK HELP.

I get your sentiment, and I am in no way taking away from your story, but sober drivers can do the exact same thing.

One person could drive over the limit every day all their life and not cause a problem, while a tired tee-totaller could do the exact same damage.

My main one is, people using their fucking phones! I see it in my rear view mirror all the time. It scares me. We'll be at red lights, which is obviously the perfect time to check facebook or your texts. They'll see me move off and start going themselves. What if I have to stop suddenly? They are not looking.

IMO phone drivers are worse than drunk drivers. They are actively not looking at the road.

Texting while driving is definitely shitty. I’m a bit of a grandma driver and always pull over to text or use my hand-held. Some might think I’m overly cautious, but I figure that it’s either important enough for me to dedicate an extra minute or so to pull over, or it can wait.

Sleep-deprived driving is one a lot of people do and seem to underestimate how dangerous it is. I’ll ask my boyfriend to drive if I’m tired, or catch the train/tram instead. I’m fortunate that we have well-connected public transport near our house that allows me to do that, but I know it’s not an option for everyone - especially if they need to commute to work. No one’s perfect (myself included), but I think it’s just about minimising risk wherever possible and being sensible. I regularly see people speeding on the roads, cutting people off, tailgating, etc. and wonder to myself “how many minutes (seconds?) do you shed off your commute by acting like a complete cock and putting other peoples’ lives at risk?”.

No one gets in their car and thinks “today I’ll kill someone/myself in a car accident”, but it happens daily. I like to try and minimise my chances of being one of the ones it happens to.

Texting while driving is definitely shitty. I’m a bit of a grandma driver and always pull over to text or use my hand-held.

A death machine can cover a football field length at 40 during a short text.

Not only that - because attention to the road is lower, reaction times increase considerably.

A kid running in front of you at 100 yards, while you're texting will result in you ploughing straight through them.

Looking at the road? You might stop even before a collision.

I honk at multiple distracted drivers every day. Jackasses that don't go at greenlights because they're on their phone, or they swerve onto the shoulder because they were looking down for too long, or they just don't realize they're tailgating the car in front because they're trying to text. The worst is that I see fucking police do it all the time where I live, but I see cops break all sorts of traffic laws constantly anyway because local PD are scumbags. I wish I could pull some of these morons over myself sometimes.

One fun tactic I see the police (UK) use not often enough is that in a traffic jam, they will have a motorcycle cop filter the jam.

Police bikes are powerful but quiet at low revs, so the people using their phones in traffic don't notice until there's a motorcycle glove tapping their window and a police bike next to them.

That's six points on your licence and a £200 fine.

People still do it ALL the time though. I'd love to be a plain clothed police officer on a scooter doing this. I would catch so many people.

Back when I had a motorbike, I would tap on peoples windows I saw using phones. Fuck em. I had so many people pull out while using their phones that it just made motorcycling more dangerous than it should be. I only have a car now, but I do have a dashcam just in case.

It's not just your opinion. Some reports are saying distracted driving is now killing more people than drunk driving. And somehow they still have no shame.

distracted driving is now killing more people than drunk driving.

Fuck, that sucks. I see people popping a peek at their phones on the freeway and it scares the crap outta me. You’re going double the speed limit it takes to kill a person plus staring at your phone distracted. I feel like people forget cars are death machines.

Not only phones but car "infotainment" systems. Why are we putting large touchscreens on the dashes of our cars? Yes, much can be done via bluetooth and voice commands but today’s cars require you to interact and look somewhere other than the road to do something that could have previously done by using a control knob while your eyes are on the road. I fucking hate it.

Your reaction time increases a lot when distracted.

I’m sorry, but being lucky ‘just for being alive’ isn’t right. His life got fucked up by that drunk driver, and he has brain damage where he can’t even step into society to earn a living and/or lead a ‘normal’ life anymore due to this. I don’t see how he’s lucky for having survived, if anything, it’s worse that he did. But if you’re telling me he’s truly happy with the way things are and he doesn’t mind, then more power to him. He’s a strong dude.

Yeah, I think I would experience a lot of grief if it was me, but he seems content in life and I can’t fault him for that. He’s been through a lot and survived against some pretty incredible odds.

I sometimes wonder if his injury affected his ability to comprehend the changes in his own cognition/behaviour, which is why he doesn’t seem too fazed by the loss. I would be so angry if it was me. BUT, it’s also possible that I’m completely wrong and that having the accident made him re-prioritise his life choices and conclude that his current lifestyle was preferable to a high-stress career. I imagine nearly dying and losing a close friend in the same accident would cause a person to reevaluate things a fair bit. He has money to live off (wealthy family), so it may be the case that he now sees life as more precious than before and prefers to spend it having fun with family/friends than studying and working.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the more in-depth details. It just gets me so mad to see how a bright kid like him had his life ruined in less than a few minutes due to some drunk fuckwit. :/

I think the overall sentiment is that it shouldn't have happened in the first place, because it fucks up many people's lives.

Telling someone their shitty for doing something probably wont get them to change their mind but being able to step up and say something before they take their keys and get behind the wheel is the best thing to do. And lead by example

Agreed. The incident I mentioned happened when I was younger and I didn’t have the confidence to take someone’s keys in the face of 3 people arguing against me, but that’s definitely a preferable choice.

A more positive story though: I was at a local pub about 18-months back and a group of people who were sitting out the front saw an older guy drunkenly staggering towards his car. Despite being a complete stranger, one of the members of the group rushed over and stole his keys and refused to give them back. After some protesting, they called him a taxi and sat him down with a glass of water. The guy ultimately apologised and thanked them for intervening. I didn’t see him until after the commotion had started, but he was absolutely plastered and i couldn’t believe he was about to drive. I’m guessing it wasn’t his first (or last) time drunk driving, but it gave me faith in humanity in that moment to see people stepping in like that.

I graduated a year and a half ago with a degree in engineering. There's now a new standard in the oil industry that I developed (and even named). I was in a car accident on March 15th and suffered a traumatic brain injury. It's been improving slowly, but I am not back to work yet (maybe next week). I had a lot of the same symptoms that your friend had. I had a few hours last week where I actually felt like I was thinking like my old self.

This man's story hits me deeply in my soul. I hope you keep in touch with your friend. There's nothing more valuable than a friend when your life is devastated.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. If it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure my friend was either still in an induced coma, or just out of one when he was at the stage you're at now (it was a long time ago now and we haven't chatted about his accident in many years). He couldn't recognise his family and friends when he first woke up, couldn't tie his shoelaces or buckle his watch, would lose touch with where he was or fabricate memories... his improvement from those early days is drastic. I can't imagine how tough this is for you right now, but at this point in your recovery there is still a lot of time and room for your symptoms to improve. Wishing you all the very best in your recovery.

This should be taught as a lesson in schools. There is no reason behind drunk driving. None at all. You shouldn’be going out if all you can afford is alcohol. If you don’t have any money for a taxi ride, then stay at home and drink there. That way the only person that you can possibly harm is yourself.

Man this hit home. Thankfully I’ve not known my friends to drink and drive but I’ve never thought of it how you’ve put it. If you drink and drive you not only don’t give a shit about ruining your life but ruining others too, perhaps more-so.

Drink driving adverts should stress this side so much more

That is so awful, I have the same hatred for drunk drivers. One of my oldest friends who was similar to the person you talked about, top of the class, very talented, and the nicest person in the entire school. Some drunk asshole decided to drive on the wrong side of the highway without headlights on. Drunk driver survived with minimal injuries and my friend died on impact. Fuck drunk drivers

Well said. If I found any of my friends driving while more than slightly over the limit I’d explain to them how shitty they are being, and wouldn’t stay friends with them if they were to not listen.

Good on you! Don't give an inch of encouragement to that behavior because it just. Isn't. Worth. It

agree. Drunk drivers go behind Rapists and pedophiles for my most loathed people list. Even murderers (for me) are marginally less despicable pieces of trash than drunk drivers.

My cousin (who’s basically my sister because we were all raised together) got engaged awhile back. Her soon to be mother-in-law and sister-in-law were both crushed in their car by a drunk driver in an SUV.

Five kids. They left behind five kids, four of which were under 16.

As someone who recently survived being hit head on by a drunk driver this really hits home. One minute everything was going great then bam my entire life was turned upside down. It’s been a month now and I’m still having a hard time walking. I am expected to make a full recovery, but it’s highly possible I will live with chronic pain the rest of my life. Comparatively, I got off easy but no one deserves to go through what I am going through. Don’t be that asshole. Not only will it ruin your life, but potentially the lives of others

Just as bad with driving high. A lot of people I know are proud of how "good they can drive" while high. It's awful and one day one of them is going to kill themselves or someone else.

THey also don't realize how full of shit they are. Do they think cops don't know that the person who is driving 5-10 under the limit on a 65 mph highway in the right lane and ISN'T an old person likely isn't drunk or high?

I've been behind so many turds on Friday or Saturday nights that are just puttering along, assuming going slow = safer and nobody will notice. I do my best to get away from them ASAP. Usually once they're in your rearview you can see them swerving like crazy in their lane too.

Ya'll that do this aren't slick. Everyone around you knows.

I've seen a cop drive 20mph down a 35, and when someone started going 20 afraid to pass him, he pulled them over. 1am on a weekend in a college town.

Ugh. I once had the nerve to pass an unmarked police car on the right, on an empty highway. He was doing 65 in a 70, cruising in the left lane even though there were NO other cars around besides us. I followed him for about two seconds and then passed on the right. Got pulled over, yelled at because I didn't pull over on the exit ramp (which I would've had to slam on my brakes to do), then got ticketed.

What did you get ticketed for, out of curiosity? None of that sounds traditionally ticket-able.

Going five over the limit, although I think in my state he could've ticketed me for passing on the right. I paid up without protest since I was speeding, but damn dude, 75 in a 70?

Yeah that's shitty.

While I do agree that no one should ever drive impaired by any drug, stoned driving is nowhere close to "as bad" as driving drunk. Alcohol really screws with your inhibitions which makes driving extremely dangerous, but weed doesn't really do that. Obviously you're still impaired when high but you're less likely to do something stupid.

The real killer is cell phone use, which has been shown to actually be worse than being drunk.

I did some research, and it seems like you’re correct.

Driving drunk vs stoned: https://auto.howstuffworks.com/car-driving-safety/accidents-hazardous-conditions/driving-stoned-worse-driving-drunk1.htm

Driving drunk vs texting while driving: https://www.bisociety.org/texting-while-driving-vs-drunk-driving-which-is-more-dangerous/

Yep. Totally agree. Same with people sharing drug/booze bus locations on Facebook. It really chaps my ass.

This is so sad. How old was he when he got hit?

I took a pretty serious gang beating once when I tried to stop a dude from driving home drunk.

He died on the way home.

A family friend was drunk and made his slightly less drunk friend drive him and his 2 year old son home. They hit a highschool star athlete who had a bright future and fucked his arms and legs up. Shattered his 2 year old sons legs and killed the family friend. The driver walked away, went to jail for a few years though so that's good.

Fuck drunk drivers.

Your friend and I have a simular story. TBIs suck.

2 golds! Touching story, by the way. Thank you for sharing, and best wishes to you and your friend.

My dad occasionally drives drunk and despite taking off the front of his car and part of our garage he still does it occasionally. My fiancé drives him to get more alcohol now when he’s already drunk (fiancé being sober ofc) but it pisses both of us off. What’s worse is he did it on my 18th birthday while we (fiancé and I) were in the shower. I still haven’t forgiven him for that or the time he hit the wall. I’m dreading my 19th birthday next week bc i know he’ll do it again if we don’t keep watch over him. I’m scared that one day he’s gonna hurt someone/himself but you can’t reason w him because he does the whole “fuck you I’m an adult” bullshit. He just gets the “you’re my son you can’t tell me what to do” thing going. Also won’t accept he has mental problems but that’s another conversation

I have no sympathy at all for drunk drivers tbh, but it’s hard when it’s someone in your own family doing it?

Idk i had to get this off my chest. We’re hopefully moving away from him soon but that also worries me bc then there’s no one being the voice of reason when he’s drunk.

And don't forget that when you drink heavily until 4am, and wake up at 7am, you are still probably drunk. Buy a breathalyzer if you live like this, because you would be surprised how many people get DUI's (and hurt themselves/others) the morning after.

Man, the memory issues and forgetting what you're saying mid-sentence or mid-conversation is miserable. I have memory issues (incredibly minor compared to the guy you talk about) from a history of concussions, and that happens to me sometimes. Luckily less often now that I'm several years removed from my last head injury, but every once in a while it crops up, and I swear, it gets scarier each time because it's a reminder that yeah, it might not happen as often, but you can't fix your brain. This is something I'm stuck with for the rest of my life.

I'm glad he seems happy. I hope he truly is.

Never met my grandfather and my mom last her dad when she was 6 because of an asshole drunk driver. I have absolutely zero sympathy for anyone who gets busted driving drunk, especially now with technology like Uber, etc. There's simply no excuse.

P.S. Distracted Driving (especially cell phones) is the 'new' drunk driving. These assholes that can't drive straight down the road because they are too busy updating Facebook need to lose their license and/or get jail time as well. I won't lie, I've peeked at my phone a few times, but its ... at a stop light, or a very long / empty stretch of road, etc. Can't count the number of cars where the driver spends 80% of their attention looking at their phone. Just disgusting.

As much as I love driving, I can't wait for autonomous cars to take over be cause of all of the untrustworthy people on the road.

Amen. Drunk driving killed my friend who was like my brother. You aren't an exception. You will become a statistic. Don't do it.

Not only drunk drivers, but half awake drivers are just as bad. If you're that tired, don't be driving. Whatever it is can wait.

It's hard to be around people who drink if you don't. I have a friend who doesn't drink and has no problem saying no to people. People don't like it when they are drinking and you're not. I get that. But if someone doesn't want to drink and I'm drinking, I let it go. I don't drink much so I'm rarely in that situation. Some people I know drink like fish.

I don’t know where you are, but supported employment is a great option for people with disabilities to work, even minimal hours, in a way that makes sense for them and also helps reduce isolation. Not sure if that’s available in your state/country, but anything like vocational rehabilitation should offer similar. I’ve seen it do amazing things for people with TBI.

and even still, he was one of the lucky ones.

I'll take death over that.

I fucking loathe drink drivers.

Not just the drunk ones. Just stupid drivers in general.
You're in full control off 1+ton of metal travelling at high speed. You are in full control of a deadly weapon for hours each day.

Driving should be a privilege not handed out lightly. Not the right that some people think it is.

Also

If someone you know does it, openly tell them how shitty they are for it

Don't just tell them. Take their keys. You might literally just save multiple lives.

In my mind, if the people I'm hanging around with get testy because of something like that, I need to find new people to hang around with.

Could not agree more. One of my friends was hit and killed by a drunk driver last year. He was on a bike, and the driver just veered into the bike lane and mowed him down without even hitting her brakes. And then she fled the scene, letting him bleed out alone in the street.

If you are drinking, don’t drive. Just DON’T. Pay the money for an Uber or taxi or hotel or whatever it takes. That slight cost is just a tiny fraction of the cost of a life. Drunk drivers kill and severely injure innocent people every day. These people have families and friends and lives worth living. Never forget that.

I'm sorry for your loss. He sounds like a lovely man. My best friend had her life stolen away when she was a new driver. Gosh, it's been close to 15 years since that time I will never forget. In the brief, selfish moment a stranger decided he would drive drunk. I bet he didn't have time to think about any consequences or "It won't happen to me lol". But it did.

I think about her often; I still miss her even after that amount of time. They say time will heal wounds, but I still feel it. The person that killed her gets to live with guilt, but everyone else who knew and loved her never got to spend more time with her :/ She had a really bright future ahead of her too. Really brilliant young lady, especially in science type disciplines. She wanted to go to college and get a degree in chemistry.

I have laid into people all the time who would think it was the best decision EVER to drive drunk. I don't care if I sounded like a bitch or offended people. I hope they never have to know what a gaping void in their chest feels like any time they remember a loved one.

People think that drunk drivers are some other people. Like some idiots that are not related to them. They think "Oh I know those other drunk drivers are shit but I can drive fine". No mate. You cant. Yeah I can see that you have been drunk driving before and you have not gotten into an accident so far but it WILL eventually happen. And it only needs to happen once...

Boi, you people need to tighten up your laws. Here in Dubai anyone who drives drunken and gets in an accident is sentenced to death. This is brutal but because of these extreme laws people DONT DRIVE DRUNKkkkkkkkkk.

Good for you being “uptight!” My friend group once simultaneously kicked one dude out of the group because he not only drove drunk with 3-4 other people in the car, he refused to pull over and stop so one of my friends who was having a panic attack could get out. He literally made her get out at a stoplight on a 6 lane street. Luckily she made it to the other drivers car and got in safely.

Asshole to this day claims he did nothing wrong, we all just overreacted and got too scared. Did listen to me when I told him it didn’t matter if he’d driven drunk without an accident before, that it only takes once to kill somebody. I’d have given him a fucking lecture if I wasn’t scared he’d get angry and pay even less attention to the road.

My boyfriend was his best friend but after I told him what happened he called the dude up and said “don’t talk to any of us ever again or I’ll fucking kill you.” At the time of the incident I was pregnant. I had so much anger for him after I found out, I could have fucking died and my parents and boyfriend wouldn’t have known I was pregnant until after I was dead. It would have destroyed him.

Fuck drunk drivers, and especially fuck drunk drivers who think what they’re doing is 100% fine.

You should share more because it really needs to be put into peoples heads. Alcohol makes you confident even if you're f***ing up, and that's something we all need to watch.

Holy fuck, I know this exact situation... Are you from east Washington state?

I never understood this... I very rarely get drunk but I remember a time I closed down a bar. I walked out side with keys in my hand stumbling drunk. I put them away decided lets eat a sausage from this vendor and some chips and see how I feel afterwards. After that I got up still clearly drunk so I ubered home.

I really don't understand why all cars don't have built in breathalyzers. It wouldn't be terribly inconvenient or expensive, and it would save so many lives and so much money in the long run.

Walking home after you've had to much to drive your car back home is a great excuse to order takeout, anyway. Fuck the haters.

Adding to this.

Some who read this will think "I only drink when I'm a little buzzed, it's OK! I'm not a bad person."

Stop it. Get your ego out of the equation.

Hey guys, heres a life pro tip and what I usually do.

LPT: If you have a spare key and know youre going to be drunk driving and need to get somewhere within a reasonable distance, park your car, lock your key in it and get it with the spare in the morning.

Its somewhat inconvenient but honestly better than drunk driving. You also only have to spend the money for one uber ride home instead of an uber ride there and back.

I'm confused why you need the extra key. Why not just park and lock your car before getting an Uber while keeping your regular set of keys?

Hmm I guess I should explain in a bit more depth. Typically my friends have get together a at their house before we uber down to some local bars which happen to be closer to my place.

I drive to my friends house, leave my spare at home, once I get there I lock my keys in my car just so that there is absolutely zero chance of me driving us to the bars or me driving home.

From the bars, I get an uber home.

I feel like I can make the judgment to not drink and drive but simply it’s to eliminate all possibility.

Someone being a really nice or successful person does notake their life and health more valuable. He could have been the most hateful person ever and what happened to him still would have been just as tragic.

Lol, I should find the thread from a few weeks ago where people got mad at me for saying drunk drivers should be executed.

Two of my best friends have died in the last month cuz of drunk driving. Please please don’t drive drunk. $20/getting home quicker is not worth your life and the pain to others

A friend of mine died from a drunk driver hitting her, the guy survived and the court had the audacity to only issue him probation. Her son was 2 at the time and the court didn’t give a shit about it. I’m still salty about it because he’s walking around living his life, all while she’s dead and won’t ever get to see her son grow up.

DON’T FUCK UP YOUR LIFE OR ANYONE ELSES LIFE BY DRINKING & DRIVING, IT’S NOT WORTH IT.

The man who killed my uncle last year was sentenced to 7 years, just this afternoon. My dad spoke at the sentencing hearing.

The man who knows killed my uncle last year.

I know it was a typo but it's so creepy to read this way. Like a sci-fi boogie man. "The man who knows"

Yikes! Editing!

Press F for uncle Mishka.

Huh?

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/press-f-to-pay-respects

I'm saying RIP your uncle but with a meme. I bet he was a nice dude.

Thank you. He was a very kind person.

His death caused a second death two days later. My diabetic cousin (his daughter) was distraught and her blood sugar went through the roof. Died a painful death. I’m glad this POS is in jail for a while.

If i ever go to jail I'll shank him for you.

Don’t go to jail. And no shanking. I think he’s ruined his own life and should spend some time reflecting on that.

I recently lost one of my favorite people in the entire world and best friend in a car accident due to a drunk driver. The driver was never, and still hasn't been arrested for it. I'm still not over it and it's been almost 7 months. My heart still hurts every day. I'm tearing up just typing this.

For the love of fuck please don't do it.

My cousin's wife crippled a guy changing his tire on the side of a road. In front of his wife and child.

I don't remember how long she had to do it, but she did the weekend inmate thing for at least 5 years.

Only 10 years?

It was manslaughter, I’d imagine her having to live with what she’s done is a harsher punishment than all those years combined.

It can also depend on what her blood-alcohol level was when she blew. Where I'm from, blood alcohol levels above .16 bring stronger charges. Could be the same for that state, except she didn't blow very high or she had a really good lawyer.

She blew a 0.139 and also had no money for a good lawyer...

I’d imagine her having to live with what she’s done

If this were a person with a conscience she wouldn't have been driving drunk in the first place.

You're telling me! She spent the entire time up until sentencing lamenting on social media how she has no prior records and is an upstanding citizen so she should get the minimum, it was just "a couple of beers" and she'll never do it again. Even after sentencing her father is posting about how bs it is and she's such a wonderful young woman who doesn't deserve this. She deserves more since she doesn't even think she did that much wrong!

Yeah, she should have gotten life

Who'd benefit from that?

Just like one of the characters from the old Degrassi (before The Next Generation). Wheels I think his name was. Yeah don't do it.

girl I knew drove drunk from a party in high school. killed herself and her sister, put her friend in the emergency room. Just like that, a family lost all of their children

Don't fuck around with drunk driving folks. It's not worth it. It's never worth it. I got one myself in my early 20's and that hung over my life like a storm cloud for nearly ten years. I feel like it really set me back from being able to achieve more when I was younger. Don't make the same mistake I did.

My best friend got 2 DUIs in his early 20s. He voluntarily didn't get his license until 35 because he acknowledged that he had a problem with drinking and driving and didn't trust himself. People think he is crazy but I commend him for this.

I actually did something similar. They made me take mandatory counseling, and the main thing they tried drilling into our heads was that we needed to quit drinking otherwise we were bound to get another DUI. So I thought to myself "fuck that, I'll just quit driving instead". Which worked out for me. I never got that second one.

Are you doing better now?

I'm doing great, thanks for asking.

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Mostly financial stuff but there could also be jail time, license restrictions, social stigma, etc.

Can i ask why 10 years? I’m in Arizona, my father caught one 6mos ago and he’s done 6 nights in jail, 1 mo house arrest and like $500-700 in fees with no priors. Is that not typical? or did he just get lucky? (He was triple legal limit)

I didn't mean that I was sentenced to ten years or anything like that. Ten years is about how long it took for the whole mess to drop from my record. And as long as it was on my record it made life pretty difficult.

ahh, I see. Thanks for responding!

In what ways did your DUI make your life difficult?

Just off the top of my head...

Major financial strain when I was at the age where I was struggling to be as independent as possible.

Jail time is shitty. Also had to do community service at the morgue as a kind of "scared straight" program. You ever seen a bookshelf full of dead babies? I have, and I'll never get that image out of my head.

Lots of time spent in other mandatory classes and counseling.

I quit driving for a while because the insurance was more than I could afford. And because I didn't want to risk even the remote possibility that I'd get behind the wheel after drinking. Ended up selling my car and stuck to public transportation for years.

There's also the stigma that goes along with it. People look at you like you're an irresponsible fuck up. And they're not wrong.

When I finally started driving again it was a major pain in the ass to get my license back, mostly due to some missing paperwork from the courts. You think the DMV is bad try getting paperwork from the court after the case has been over for a few years.

But now it's been ten years and everything is off my record. And things are fine now. I also learned my lesson and won't drive if there's drinking involved. But looking back I feel like a good part of my early 20s was wasted dealing with everything that DUI brought with it. There are better ways to spend that part of your life. And who knows how my life would be now if I hadn't of had to spend my twenties dealing with bullshit that could have been avoided by not being a dumbass.

Your state seems relatively severe on DUI, not that I'm arguing it should be otherwise. Where I am (admittedly not the USA) jailtime is really rare unless you're a repeat or you're above 0.15, and convictions stay on your record for five years rather than ten unless it was serious enough to go to a district court. Fines can get pretty expensive, but total costs aren't anywhere near the $10k that's been thrown around this thread. Of course, I can't really say much about employment prospects, though, as I haven't had a DUI (still on a learners permit, actually).

https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/road-safety/drink-driving/penalties/charged

https://www.harperfinch.com.au/blog/ultimate-guide-drink-driving-dui-laws-queensland/

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/about/fees/fees-in-the-courts/magistrates-court-fees

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Try NY... it never comes off.

I am not really a person to drink and drive, but I am a recovering addict... and the night my mom died, I took two Ativan (anxiety pill) which turned into 18 apparently (it turns out those things reduce your inhibitions even more so than drinking). I got pulled over because I was very angry and driving like that. I got a DWAI for the drugs in my system.

Couldn’t afford a lawyer, got a public defender, dude seemed competent and said he’d easily get a great deal for me bc I had literally no priors and it was the night my mom died (we were super close, worst day of my life). He didn’t do shit.

After looking into it I found it never comes off your record. I’m a restaurant manager and have had such a hard time getting positions now, even in a field that’s notorious for its rampant drug/alcohol use and for generally hiring people with rough backgrounds. It’s different when you’re the one handling thousands of dollars a day.

Just don’t do it.

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Any DWI in NY stays on indefinitely. I’m still trying to look into getting it expunged or somehow cleared, but it looks like the most I can do is get a certificate of good conduct which if iirc will clear it from my criminal but not my drivers license so it will still show up on a background check anyways...

Edit: representation does have to do with it though, as if I had been able to get the charge lowered to literally anything else at the time, it would come off in 7 or 10 years. I didn’t realize all this, I thought ALL crimes come off eventually... I mean it will drop from my criminal record in 10 but that doesn’t really matter if it still shows up on a drivers license abstract which even MORE places do.

Former U.S. President G.W. Bush had to get a special waiver to enter Canada because of his 1976 drunken-driving offense in Maine.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=82199&page=1

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You totally can get in.

You can’t get out though.

Source: lived very close to border, accidentally crossed border while lost in chateaugay NY. I did make it out after about seven hours and signing a paper stating I would never ever for any reason come back for the next five years. Also my ex husband went with 7 guys on a motorcycle trip to Niagara Falls and they could not go to the other side due to one of them having a DWI.

Absolutely. NEVER WORTH IT! My best friend got her first DUI 7 years ago. Got a second one a few months ago. Lost her license for 2 years. Has to pay the monthly fee to be on probation. Cannot travel out of state without permission. Mandatory 3 week detox/rehabilitation program. Thousands of dollars in fines and lawyer fees.

I hope things have gotten easier for you!!!

What state was that in?

Massachusetts

Misread your original post, sorry. Was thinking it was overly harsh, but missed that it was a second offense.

Yup. Got drunk at a bar after work and thought I was being responsible by hanging out in the parking lot til I felt ok to drive. By then it was 3:30 am and on the way home I dozed off for a split second and crashed into a ditch. Thank God not into oncoming traffic or anyone else. Cops showed up and made me blow, I was barely over the legal limit and got charged with a DUI. Had to spend all my savings, borrow from family, and use a credit card to stay out of jail, fix my car, get a good lawyer, and get transportation to and from work so I didn't lose my job. This happened when I was 21. I'm 24 now and still have about $8,000 to go before everything is paid off. I think the total bill was close to $20k. But that doesn't include my entire early and mid twenties spent working my ass off and living in poverty just because of one stupid mistake. Not worth it at all.

Damn I spent around $2,000 and in an expensive state. Did you get the charge dropped? To me, I knew the prosecutor had evidence against me and I knew spending a ton of money on a lawyer wasn’t really going to do anything. I did not get a DUI conviction but it is a DUI arrest on my record. I think I got what’s called a suspension. I also got my license back immediately as a plea deal.

Wait you guys make it sound like the more money you throw at it the less it actually impacts your life, is this correct?

That's true for everything.

Well the money alone is probably the biggest impact. I did plea guilty but also did not receive a conviction. Therefore I do not need to disclose anything if I apply for a job. What I’m saying is that sometimes even buying the best lawyer won’t do much if they have solid evidence against you. I did not pay for a lawyer.

I got everything dropped but it was after a year of probation where I had to take a bunch of classes, get a psych evaluation, having a breath-tester to start my car (which cost like $150 a month by itself), monthly check-ins with a state social worker, and a $1500 fine. The lawyer fee itself was $4000, I got the best in my area cause the police tried to say I crashed into one of those giant flashing arrow signs they put up in construction zones but they must have been trying to get one out of me because I was miles away from the where they said it was and they had no evidence. He got me out of that so he basically paid for himself as that would've cost a lot, never got an exact price but they told me I was fucked for a while if they convicted me of it.

I wasn’t convicted either but I still plead guilty. How did you plea?

Guilty.

So we ended up with the same outcome pretty much. Not a conviction but a suspension right? And classes and minimal/moderate/severe supervision. My free lawyer got my license back immediately as part of the plea deal

Nice, I was just panicking cause they were trying to charge me with damaging government property and pay for it. Could've saved money but I don't regret that decision, just my decision to drive.

Yeah you made the right decision. I also wasn’t involved in an accident

At the risk of sounding pro DUI...

Don't do field sobriety tests. Check your state's laws but generally they're voluntary despite what cops tell you. "On advice of council I respectfully decline" and say no more. They can (and will) arrest you, take you in and then request a legit sobriety test at the station which isn't voluntary but that gives you time and your lawyer a potential argument on timeline. Often you have a choice and blood tests can take hours to be drawn depending on the department.

I did have to get blood drawn. I got pulled over at 01:20 and by the time my ex got the car outta impound and got me home, it was like 09:00. I was pissed because I had some good dope waiting for me home (oh the life of an addict).

However, I have no regrets, as if I hadn’t agreed I’d have lost my license immediately and for at least twice as long. Realistically (so I thought) I had no case, as I was already a methadone maintenance patient being drug tested anywhere from 1-3x/week. As it turned out, I never popped positive at the clinic.

In my state, refusing to give a sample means you lose your license for a year. A DUI is only 6 months probation where you can drive with a special permit and start device. I honestly thought I was sober enough to pass.

Google "{your state} field sobriety test". In most cases FSTs have very different requirements than after you're arrested and taken to a station. In California all the roadside alphavet recitals, standing on one leg, looking at your pupils, roadside/cop car breathalyzer are voluntary (though cops can legally lie about that). After you're arrested and taken to a station, refusing a blood/urine/breath test will put you in a world of hurt though.

Also, in CA, if under 18 taking an FST isn't voluntary.

I recently got a DUI and I’m 25. Did it stop you from getting jobs? My boss wasn’t too bothered by it when I told him and he actually had some great advice. I spent around $2,000 in fees I don’t know how people spend 10-15k. In Chicago which is supposed to be one of the more expensive states for DUI.

It limited where I could work because I had to take into account commuting without a car or license. This also made dating harder. But I never got turned down for a job because of my record, if that's what you're asking.

Cool. I mean the comments here are telling me it’s going to ruin my life but so far I’m dealing with it and it has improved my behavior as I have stopped drinking and smoking pot. It seems like paying up the ass for a lawyer is a mistake if they already have solid evidence against you. My lawyer who is a good friend and did it for free told me that he couldn’t really do much except get a decent plea deal where I could get my license back immediately. I was not convicted but I still have the dui arrest on my record.

AZ here, they may be including state mandated things that you pay for such as an interlock system, alcohol classes, license reinstatement, insurance costs, etc. On top of court fees. Mine, about 10 years ago, was around $6k all in all.

Yeah I included all of that minus a lawyer because mine was free

Looked around a bit on Google; Illinois isn't coming up anywhere for harshest or most expensive DUI penalties. For a long time AZ was the worst, but with Tent City closed down and a new Sheriff instated I have no idea who is at the top now.

Yeah I’m just going off of this article I read when I was researching what to do and it said IL was one of the stricter states. For instance, you can’t get it reduced to reckless driving involving alcohol like you can in other states.

I got one at 30 and it absolutely has stopped me from getting jobs. I’m a restaurant manager and it’s taken me three years to get another management position and only by working my way up in a shitty job.

I also was planning to become an RN but I’m not even sure that it’s worth it now as the charge will always be on my record. I also have a possession charge from the same incident (both misdemeanours). I feel one charge is more often overlooked than anything more, even if they have the same date and everything.

Yeah well I don’t have to tell them I have a DUI and I sure as hell am not going to offer it up. Possession sounds worse because they know you use drugs as well. Plenty of well-off people have picked up DUIs. Not so much drug charges.

I don’t either, lol, both restaurant management (or any management) and nursing licensing/jobs pretty much always do a thorough background check.

Were you convicted or did you get a suspension?

I was convicted, I couldn’t afford a lawyer and used public defender not realizing the seriousness of the matter at the time.

same. dui has been a storm cloud for a decade. its held me back in so many ways i cant event start to explain.

It definitely affects you in more ways than you can possibly imagine.
Them) Why did you leave you last job? Me) I was let go because I got a DUI and part of my job was driving. Them) We'll call you. Ron Howard) They didn't

DO NOT BLOW INTO A BREATHALYZER IF YOU HAVE BEEN DRINKING. Obviously the first advice is to not drink and drive but if you fucked up, do not blow into the breathalyzer ever. Not even at the station. If you do not appear drunk in the video, you will have a good chance of getting off with just your license being revoked for a year. The reason for this is the prosecution needs evidence that you have committed a crime. Without the test results, all they can go off of is the cops report and the video. Do not give them evidence to use against you. If you know you are under the limit, then blow. But you have to be pretty damn certain.

I’m not defending drinking and driving by any means, but a dui isn’t THAT big of a deal. I got one when I was 18, and another at 23. I’m almost 27 now, and it has literally held me back from nothing. Again, I AM NOT SUGGESTING DRINKING AND DRIVING IS ALRIGHT. Just saying a dui isn’t THAT big of a deal.

Ew. Get your shit together or stay off the road.

My shit is together. You act like you’ve never made really stupid mistakes when you were younger.

I’ve never driven drunk. And I didn’t do it twice. Glad you weren’t inconvenienced by your selfishness, though.

I really wish I was as perfect as you.

I have no sympathy for you and you are not a victim. Best of luck.

I never said I was a victim? At least I’m not a smug cunt who wants to sit on their pedestal and act like they have never done anything wrong. I have acknowledged what I did was wrong. All I was saying is that it wasn’t that big of an inconvenience to deal with.

I feel like you’re somewhat right because I got a DUI and while it has taught me an important lesson (apparently not for you though) and been a huge stress, it hasn’t stopped me from fulfilling my life ambitions. A DUI will not “ruin your life” as people here make it seem. Then again, if you get into an accident things are a bit different. Manslaughter is a different charge entirely. Specifically a DUI and just a DUI not involving other people will not ruin your life. It’s a bitch with money but I’ve said earlier in this thread, if you blew into a breathalyzer, there’s no getting out of it unless the cops made a mistake somewhere. My advice to potential DUI seekers: do not drink and drive first of all, and if you do get caught, do not blow into the breathalyzer ever.

Where do you get the impression that I haven’t learned a lesson? I pretty much said exactly what you just stated “a dui will not ruin your life”. I think I made it pretty clear that I don’t think it’s right or cool to drive drunk. Again, I was simply stating getting a dui isn’t the end of the world.

You had another DUI after your first. Sorry that was probably kind of rude but having 2 DUIs says something about your character. But I don’t know you. So take it with a grain of salt.

You’re absolutely right, I was a shithead who didn’t care back then. I guess if I phrased it like a sob story, and told everyone how rough my childhood was, and made it a point to tell everyone I’ve been sober for a few years now , the reddit hive mind would be congratulating me. Funny how that works some times.

Congratulations on your sobriety. I am just a few weeks sober but I’m glad to know that you are in a better place in life.

How much it affects you depends on two things: where you live, and how much money you have to throw at it. DWI laws vary greatly between states and countries (most countries being stricter than USA), and if you have money for a great DWI lawyer, you are going to end up in better shape about 99% of the time.

Unfortunately in my case, I live in one of the strictest states, and I had no money.

If you take a $20 taxi every time you go out, and you go out a lot. Lets say every week from 21-55. You'll spend $1,508 on taxis. One DUI will cost more than that. The national average cost for a DUI is $10,000. Hell the insurance increase alone is $3,600 to $6,000. You can take an Uber Black home every time you go out and still spend less than if you get caught once.

While your point is sound, I have to address a couple of things:

  • $1500 on taxis at $20/taxi is 75 taxi rides. Over 35 years, that's just over twice a year. Going out once a week for 10 years is 520 rides, which is $10,400
  • How far does $20 get you in an American taxi? Here in Australia a 30 minute ride is around $50 (US$37).

Yeah the math is bad. I had to stop and do it, too.

Yeah my mistake, I think what happened is I multiplied 29x52 (hit the wrong key) then forgot to multiply by the number of years. I can be a real dip shit sometimes. Also, it depends where you are. Some places $20 can get you a lot further than others.

As someone who got a misdemeanor DUI at 21, never ever drink and drive. An Uber may cost you a bit but I can promise it’s nothing close to the near 14,000 dollars in fines/fees I had to pay by the end of all this. It’s close to three years later and I’m still walking on eggshells legally speaking.

The real kicker is the record on your employment background checks. A DUI automatically kicks you out of contention for a number of good jobs.

I'm in the same boat. I'm not sure mine cost $14k maybe closer to 10 after you add the insurance hike. I just wish everyone in this thread realized that Uber isn't everywhere, taxis aren't everywhere. The town I live in has neither. Fucking walk I don't care if it's pissing snow and 10 degrees out, walk find a place closer to stay if that's what it takes to not get behind the wheel.

In these situations (I'm guessing a rural area), you can call the local police office or state trooper. Even if it's not something they tend to do (and my understanding is that they do), if you're telling them that you don't think you're okay to drive and there is no other way for you to get home, then they will help you because it's better than the alternative.

This doesn't always work. Source: tried that then my idiot ass drove. Got pulled over for accelerating too quickly. Always have a legitimate plan to get back where you need to be if you drink.

Absolutely, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Another (bad) option is a bike. It's still super dumb but at least if you get into an accident it's just your dumb ass getting hurt. You might still get cited for something though (same thing if you walked home drunk) but at least you have made great efforts to avoid driving.

Note, this is in response to a person with no Uber, taxi service, or a police officer willing to offer rides home. Basically a person who has exhausted their options and didn't plan ahead to have a ride home. Nobody should do this.

Definitely always have a plan B and C though. I don't drink (and honestly never went to a party) so I've never had to do any of these things.

No

You can get a DUI on a bicycle

For the record, I'd never advocate riding a bike while intoxicated. It comes up periodically in cycling subs and I always advise against it. Even ignoring the legal ramifications, it just seems like such a stupid idea.

But this does depend upon the state. Some places treat bikes like cars, some treat them as devices or pseudo pedestrians. In my state you can't get a dui on a bike, but could get hit with something like public intoxication (which you could also get walking home).

But a person should always find another way home.

Yup. Happened to a friend.

Any vehicle you have manual control over you can get a DUI for operating.

It depends on the state, really.

Regardless, I'd never advocate someone do it and have actively discouraged people for riding drunk. Sometimes it seems like the good, reasonable thing to do but in reality you're still drunk and operating something while impaired. There are way better options.

Same thing with driving when sleepy. Just pull over somewhere and take a nap if you have to; it's just as dangerous as driving drunk.

if you're telling them that you don't think you're okay to drive and there is no other way for you to get home, then they will help you because it's better than the alternative.

Or they could lock you up for public intoxication.

I'll take public intoxication over a DUI

You could avoid both by not using the police option, as it's proven in the past to be pretty unpredictable

I'm not condoning drunk driving, but I have a feeling it's easier to do it in rural areas because there is less traffic and people, or not?

Usually no street lights, though. With impaired...everything not being able to see the roads probably makes it even more dangerous. The roads can often be in pretty rough shape, or even just gravel.

I'd guess it's easier to hit a pedestrian or cyclist as well since you're not looking for them, can't see them, and are impaired so even if most of the time they're not there, on the chance that they are you'd pose a much greater danger. In a suburb or urban area you'd be on a constant lookout for people, cars, traffic, lights, etc.

I've never been drunk or driven drunk, so I can't say for certain. I have driven rural roads though and even sober they can be really difficult to navigate safely, especially if they aren't your daily driven roads.

Absolutely, Uber and other forms of public transit are not an option for many. But that doesn't give me any sympathy for those who drive drunk. I like being drunk, but there's no way it's worth innocent people's lives. It's a damn easy choice to not drink if you don't have any way to get home safe.

There are sometimes mitigating circumstances though, for example you had a DD you thought you could trust and they bailed or got drunk.

So sleep in your car if you have absolutely no other options (too far to walk, no taxis/Ubers/public transport/friendly officers, DD bailed etc) just leave your keys either in the house you were at or in the trunk, not inside the car with you. Everyone should always have a nice warm blanket kept in their car for emergencies anyways so even if it's cold, no excuse

Good point about the keys, if the car is running you can get a DWI still even if it’s in park....

I agree by the way was just making a point.

In some places you can even get a dwi if the keys are in the vehicle with you, even if they aren't in the ignition which is a little weird to me but it is what it is. Might as well play it safe and chuck em in the trunk :)

Honestly wouldn't surprise me if the prosecutor tried to say that was "in the car" just to get a conviction.

I wouldn't be surprised either, if I was ever in that situation I would probably be overcautious and keep them in the house I was at. Or it could be a good idea to get one of those little boxes that attaches to the outside of your car that you can stash keys in

Shit I had an arrest for it dismissed (had a medication interaction cause loss of consciousness) and even walking away with no one being hurt and no criminal violations or anything, I still don't recommend it. Even if you know you haven't drank very much, if you feel off don't drive.

Right there with you but at 29 now

Don't even need mind the money, my friend flipped the car coming back from a club house and killed one of he's best friend's, he sad the worst part is been called a murderer by the kid dad's

And I looked up a DUI in my coutry will get you a fine of max 1200 euros. This is so stupid. There is no excuse for driving drunk. Nobody ever needs to drink alcohol, just a want.

How did it cost that much? I got mine at 22 and it was a 300 dollar fine, two 50 dollar classes, and 700 to get my license back a month later. That's it.

Mine was 4th degree which is the least severe, but people always say 15 grand anecdotally and mine was only 1100.

4th degree? My state doesn't do that. That is why. You just get a dui and fines and everything. It's expensive.

Yeah. We have four degrees. 4th being over the limit but under double with no aggravating factors (other passengers, fleeing, etc.).

A lot of people are factoring in years of increased insurance rates into the total price of the DUI. 1100 does seem incrediblely low though, you got lucky. I had no accident, no passengers, no fleeing, over theimit but definitely not double and I'm at about 4k deep just between mandatory towing, the classes, a lawyer and various other miscellaneous crap. Haven't even faced the court fine or insurance situation yet and I am expecting that to be a majority of the expense

I had a public defender(who was a distant family friend) because I have no assets or property on paper. The prosecutor was my mother's uncle.

My insurance company wanted to triple my rate so I switched to a major company that doesn't have a "high risk" rate and paid about the same as before the charge.

I had a perfect record but I was exactly .005 away from double the legal limit. I had a handgun on my hip also, but you can't carry drunk so an impaired carry charge was on the list too.

I was very cooperative and apologetic on the deputy's report. I had also been a semester from completing the law enforcement program a couple months prior.

What insurance company did you switch too? I'm in the same boat.

I went to progressive. Exact same coverage I had before at roughly the same price.

Really?! Progressive wanted to charge me 3k a year for insurance up from $440 (motorcycle insurance)

Wow, I’m paying $2600 a year for insurance through them now. But they’re like literally the only place that will insure me.

Ouch. Bummer. Hopefully it goes down before too long.

At least another six months, but probably much more, some of my tickets apparently just caught up with them even though the most recent is three years old. It took me a while to pay all my fines and the DWAI had to come first. In NY, tickets don’t hit your record til you pay them off apparently.

You didn't pay a lawyer clearly.

California’s laws and fines are absolutely insane for DUI so it all matters where you are and what you blew.

I suppose it's even different from county to county.

where do you guys live where you're paying 14k for what i'm assuming is a 1st time dui? just wondering, because i got one about a year ago and ive paid probably 4.5-5k total. lawyers, fines, classes and insurance. and i blew a .27 too and i also had priors so they didn't go easy on me. i'm in nevada

In the south got one at 25 cost around 12k. Had interlock on for a year. It really sucked that shit would pick up from the night before even. Late a few times for that.

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would you say you drink more moderately? Or do you not drink at all now? I want to cut down on drinking. Maybe I should get a breathalyzer to test my alcohol concentration and set limits

NV has really lax DUI laws compared to other states - a lot of first time offenders get their charge reduced to reckless driving. I think it's a side effect of Vegas being what it is. We're lucky!

makes sense. i'm up in Reno but i figured the whole 24 hr town aspect was a factor.

I don't understand - why do people in this comment chain act like the fines, employment issues, and not being able to get a license are the main reasons you shouldn't DUI? How about you risk lives of everyone in your closest vicinity because of your own goddamn stupidity and selfishness??? Shouldn't that be enough to decide you shouldn't do it? People seem to act like if the fine was 50$ with no other consequences then it would be A-OK.

Screw everyone DUI, I sincerely think that it would be the best if everyone driving after alcohol just crashed into the first tree without harming anyone except himself.

Yes, duh. Believe me anyone with any empathy has gone through many sleepless nights after a DUI thinking about what could have happened and what has happened to the less fortunate. Outside of the fact we all know this and it’s been mentioned a hundred times in this thread alone, we’re talking about the financial/employment side of this.

What I find surprising is the amount of people who don't think about that stuff until after they've had a DUI, instead of after the other times they have driven drunk. I have a lot of co-workers that didn't show any regret or remorse until after they were caught. They're the worst, I'll never understand how people can choose to do that shit. I've been fucking plastered out of my mind before, and I still knew that driving was a huge no-no. I think people let alcohol affect them more than it really does - I've never ever made a decision I regretted while drunk, because even though I was shithoused my morals were still the same if that makes sense. I could still tell the difference between right and wrong. Sure I could be silly and not able to see or talk straight, but it was never like I suddenly forgot that potentially murdering innocent people is a bad thing to do. I don't get it

Do you want a medal?

Nah, I'd like to understand what the difference is

DUI

This is literally one of the worst things that you could do. Even having a kid in your 20s isn't that bad, Being a young parent has its benefits or getting in debt. I've seen so many lives get seriously fucked up from this. I was an driving for uber recently and this guy starts talking to me about how he got a DUI. He had to pay like $10k in fees, can't get a license for like 5 years I think. Its on his record so insurance will be expensive. It shows up on his job background checks. Its terrible all around.

Canada won't let you in if you've had a DUI. I have to travel to Canada a few times a year for work, I can't imagine having to explain to my boss that I can't go to a particular client because I'm no longer welcome in their country.

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Got any info on this? A friend of mine in LA has a DUI and has been denied entry to Canada, she wants to come to visit Australia too and is worried it'll affect her ability to get a visa.

A friend of mine in LA has a DUI and has been denied entry to Canada, she wants to come to visit Australia too and is worried it'll affect her ability to get a visa.

She should send the Australian embassy an email about it. They should be able to advise.

And whatever she does, don't just rock up in Sydney and "forget" to declare the conviction. Odds are, immigration already knows and will bounce you for making a false declaration.

Americans can't "just rock up" to Australia. You have to file for an ETA before going.

After 10 years (I think it’s 10-might be fewer) you can apply to be “deemed rehabilitated,” too. It’s a few hundred bucks and a lot of paperwork. If you are deemed rehabilitated, you can re-enter the country without issue indefinitely. I’d suggest your friend make an appointment with the Canadian consulate.

It's absolutely true. I had a DUI 10 years ago in Alaska and im getting ready to file and pay the money to Canada. I just got a new passport for that reason. I live about 100 miles from the border so...

Ten years ago? No paperwork necessary hombre, you're automatically considered rehabilitated. It's the window between 5-10 where you need to file for a 'temporary residency permit' which depending on the nature and frequency of visitation can extend from 1 day to 3 years.

Not true. My roomie had one 10 years ago and was refused at the border. Had to drive all the way back to anchorage from the crossing up by Glenn allen/tok. That was 5 years ago so I don't know of they've changed it. I'm a lady btw.

That’s sucks

It is what it is. I deserved it so.

It's also a lot less of a hassle than the court ordered jail time, house arrest, license loss, court ordered rehab, and 14k i spent on the DUI, so...

I've had friends visit Australia in the last couple years with DUI's/Hit and Run records. It doesn't affect it. The only reason it causes the issue it does with Canada, is that we have shared criminal records systems with them and that they don't ~~have a concept of~~ consider misdemeanor Hit and Run (hitting a parked car or stationary object and leaving) or DUI (being caught in your car sleeping with alcohol on your breath); so they appear as felonies, which block entry. Not to say either of those examples are the rule, but those are some cases people have been denied for.

Edit: clarifying a misunderstanding on my part

I'm confused because I'm in Canada and we definitely do have a concept of misdemeanor hit and run.

Canada assumes the worst 100% of the time. Canada asks could they have been sentenced harsher here in Canada than they were in America for the same offense? regardless of the outcome of your case in US courts. So since a DUI could be felonious or meet other criteria, you get barred entry and deemed dangerous.

Maybe I'm wrong on hit and run and they just always interpret pulls from the American records as felonies. But last I heard, this was definitely the case for DWIs/DUIs.

Canada categorizes criminal offenses as summary or indictable, summary being less serious (like a misdemeanor) and indictable being more serious (like a felony). Many crimes are “hybrid” meaning the Crown has discretion to prosecute as either summary or indictable. A DUI is a hybrid offense. Because DUI could be equivalent to an indictable offense in Canada, IRCC considers a foreign national with a DUI to be criminally inadmissible.

To clarify, it doesn’t really matter how the crime is categorized by the foreign government. The Canadian officer looks at what the offense would be equivalent to in Canada to determine inadmissibility.

I don't think we're disagreeing.

We have "hybrid" offenses as well (colloquially referred to as "wobblers"), which is where hit and runs and DUIs stand. As far as I understood the situation, the issue with DUIs is, as you said, it doesn't matter if they are misdemeanors or felonies here, when you get to the border they are considered felonies ("indictable") and that's where the issue lies.

She needs to consult with a Canadian or Australian immigration lawyer instead of getting internet advice

she can apply for a temporary resident permit through a consulate or embassy. No idea if she'll be able to get one, especially just for vacation though

If your friend is just visiting Australia, it shouldn't be a problem as US doesn't share criminal records with Australia. However, if she's immigrating then she will most likely need to submit FBI background checks where it will show up. I suppose she can still explain the circumstances.

Australia is fine. Canada is the only country that denies entry for DUI, as they deem it a felony offense.

Last time friends and I drove into Canada we got held at the border for about an hour. One of our friends had a "Continued without a Finding" plea for a DUI. They eventually let us all in.

It's worth calling somebody with border patrol.

http://www.canadianimmigration.net/criminal-inadmissibility/dui-canada-entry/

The special circumstance is that Canada and USA share their police databases. So if you've called 911, the border people on either side can tell. (One lady was denied entry to the USA from Canada, because she'd tried to commit suicide two years earlier. Her name was in the 911 database. The CBP said she was mentally unstable therefore a risk to the USA)

IIRC, Australia and NZ have explicit criteria - I was reading something (maybe, 15 years ago) that said if you have not been sent to jail for more than 5 years, and you have been out with clean record for 10 years, you are OK. If you did not go to jail, you are OK. Search their government's web stuff.

Please let me know if you have anymore info on this! I live in a border city and got a DWAI 3 years ago.

You’ll have to wait a couple more years, unfortunately, if you want a more permanent solution. I’ve researched this extensively for...personal reasons. :-) You can always take a shot and bring the paperwork for temporary reentry. It’s up to the discretion of the border guard, though. Might get sent home which would be a major bummer if you were trying to go on vacation.

File for a temporary resident permit. You can use them for like 6 months at a time before you have to re-submit.

Needs to wait at least five years from sentencing.

Wrong. I applied for mine less than 5 years after I got my DUI and was accepted. You have to file a criminal rehab app if you are more than 5 years.

https://www.canadianimmigration.com/inadmissibility/temporary-resident-permit/

Even if I had the $200 and wouldn't have to worry about it emptying my wallet, I'd probably give up at that point just because of the hassle hurdle

Point still stands - lots of great countries are not as forgiving.

Ever been convicted of drug use? You'll never, ever be able to visit Japan.

You can go in if you file $200 paper work

and then wait for like 5 months for Canadian bureaucracy to get off its lazy ass and realize you put it in.

One of my father’s friends was actually fired from his job because of this, as he got a DUI and was denied at the border. He had several Canadian clients and they felt he could no longer effectively perform if he couldn’t do direct interface with them

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This. Up to the the border agent's discretion to let you in or not. It's a gamble for sure.

I've been to Canada numerous times. Been to 5 provinces. Ottawa 5 or 6 times, Toronto at least a dozen, Vancouver 3 times....

Never once had any issue entering or exiting.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/402/~/entering-the-u.s.-and-canada-with-dui-offenses

It sounds like it's at the discretion of the customs agent.

Anecdotally I've heard you're much more likely to be denied entry if you're attempting to drive into the country and it's a recent offense.

Fuck... you've travelling more here than I have and I've been here my whole life...

Don't forget that Canada is a massive country. It's understandable to not have been to most of it.

Yeah I know but he's been to considerably more of it than me. Also he's been to Ottawa 5 or 6 times. I've been exactly once and its in my own province lmao.

I went to Canada (Vancouver) and I got a DUI 7 years ago. They pulled me aside to ask me about it but let me in without much trouble.

I used to cross the border for work pretty regularly and I never had a problem. That might be true but it might be an urban legend. I live in North Dakota and I’ve crossed 50 or more times and never had a problem. I’ve never even heard a first hand account of it happening. I’m not tryin to be argumentative, I just don’t think that’s a real thing, or if it is it’s a very occasional thing.

I'm rewatching a couple of old shows now, and it's unbelievable how often people used to joke about driving drunk, or how they would take the subject VERY lightly. I would say it's good that North America is taking it so seriously now

They'll let you in. I went to Calgary/Vancouver after my DUI conviction in 2013 (convicted in 2012 happened in 2010 when I was 18) and I had no trouble getting into the country.

Granted, I flew in on a connecting flight with an 18 hour layover, so that may be part of the reason. But I did leave the airport in both instances and had no trouble doing so.

That's interesting, I didn't know that!

You can get into Canada. I've had a couple (yes, very dumb), but been able to get up to Canada a few times for baseball tournaments since I've had them. You file for a temporary resident permit and you can get in.

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Most states don’t expunge DUIs anymore, IIRC.

Lol wut. I go to Canada at least twice a year.

Was it a dwi or dui, and how long ago?

It was a DUI from 2012.

I've probably been a dozen times since then.

Do you drive in or fly? Apparently that makes a big difference.

Was it a conviction? If it wasn’t (likely a CWOF) then you should be fine. It’s only an issue for people with a guilty conviction. At least that’s what I’ve found

Yes, it was a conviction. I've never even been asked about it.

Cross your fingers they don’t ever ask. I’m always afraid they’ll ask and I’ll get turned around and sent home.

I got a DUI in 2011 and went to Vancouver recently. They asked me about it but let me in without much trouble. I think because it was so long ago.

Mine is from 2006. I’m still afraid to take a chance. I think I’d be fine if a flew in, though.

Maybe I'm fine because I'm never the driver

You’ve been lucky then

What about if it’s been expunged from your record? I got one in my early 20s in PA and went through ARD and had it expunged. After 8 years or so, they said it’s like a fresh start. I wouldn’t want to have to explain to my Canadian husband’s family why I can’t go on trips.

What's your business in Canada?

Surprisingly not uncommon in fields where you would travel to visit customers

I had no clue about this. Looks like I've got to consult an attorney if I want to take the Canadian 'shortcut' from MO to NY

They let Bieber go back

A lot of people are saying this is BS, but this is listed as a thing pretty much anywhere you look for travel advice for entering Canada. Apparently, if you or an immediate family member has a massive debt they aren't paying on, that is also fair game for refusing entry.

If I was going for the first time, i'd be much more likely to believe a ton of travel advice, including some government sources, over "nah I did it you'll be fine."

That's fucked up...

Canada won't let you in if you've had a DUI.

But if you're in ISIS come on in!

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In Canada a DUI can be an indictable offense, similar to a felony in the US. Canada has a policy of not admitting anyone to the country convicted of any indictable offense. If you get a DUI, don't plan on visiting Canada for 5-10 years at least.

Doesn't it depend on the province?

I'd think that's federal, as the borders are under federal competence. There are, however, differences between provinces in the threshold for considering someone to be DUI.

Yes, it also depends on the guard/officer admitting you too.

RCMP, OPP/SQ/etc., municipal?

I meant more superficial, like even just their attitude of the day. Same sorta thing like bouncers at a club. If one of them is miffed they might give you hard time, if they are happy they might just let you walk by.

Refresh the thread, there are plenty of sources

Can you provide a source?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=152&top=8

Canada won't let you in if you've had a DUI.

That's fucking stupid.

Even having a kid in your 20s isn't that bad

ehhhh sorry, ya lost me there

I guess he thinks kids cost less than $10k?

I think he means there are upsides to having a child (bringing life into the world and all that) whereas there are precisely zero benefits to a DUI

I'd still rather get 3 DUIs vs having a child, even jail time and $100k is cheaper and less time consuming than a kid.

3rd DUI means losing your license for 10 years as well. At least in NJ. So that's about 13 years of not driving. I think I'd rather have a kid, lol.

For the cost of a kid ($1 million or more) you could uber anywhere you want.

That's a spoiled kid, damn. I've been using $500k as the cost of a kid.

Depends where you live I guess. In the USA the extra cost of health insurance alone is going to run you a ton of cash over 18 years. That’s not including cost of the birth (over $10,000), orthodontist, dentist... if you can’t afford health insurance like millions of Americans you’ll be bankrupted by any big medical issue.

When you start looking at opportunity cost, such as if you had invested all the $$ your child cost you, you’re way over $1 million. Instead of buying a house with two or three bedrooms you keep that studio apartment and five years later you buy a house to rent out.

If you look at the cost of a child as total change in net worth over 18 years, assuming you would’ve been financially disciplined with the $$ you instead spent on your kid, $1 million is an extremely optimistic lowball estimate.

You're completely ignoring the intangible upsides of raising a kid and also the non-financial ramifications of a DUI on your record. Like not being able to enter certain countries and having to explain it to any and all future employers.

Meh, had good insurances over the years, very little out of pocket for all three kids, I mean all the employers I have had have family policies, makes no difference if you have one kid or eight. Unit cost per child goes way down, especially with things like clothes. The kids are all getting loans/scholarships for school.

I would still need a house and vehicles and appliances and shit. Honestly I think these figures are made up to scare people into financial responsibility, which isn't a bad thing, but I have spent nowhere near a million on my 18 yo. 100k, tops, and lots of that folded into expenses for the 14 yo and 6 yo.

For sure the cost of a second or third child goes way down.

100k, tops, and lots of that folded into expenses for the 14 yo and 6 yo.

I mean... how much would the bedroom that your child uses alone rent for? Even if it's just $1k a month that's a quarter million bucks over 18 years. Once again, assuming you'd reinvested that rent income you're talking close to a million just based on that.

It's true most people don't go balls to the wall, invest every dime and sacrifice cost of living to maximize rent and whatnot. But I live minimally to maximize savings and gun for early retirement so for me, everything I spent on a kid would be a lost income/investment opportunity and would add up big time.

Hey, not saying the advice is wrong, but I pay 1k/month on my mortgage. I would probably be living in a comparable dwelling with no kids, I like to garden. Fuck roommates. Yes, we are frugal. But trying to calculate opportunity cost versus the joy of raising kids seems, errr, what's the PC term, neurologically diverse?

Let's agree that you definitely do not need children.

You have to factor in all the lost job opportunities in some people's cases.

Having your children raised before you're 50 is not a bad thing. I have an absurd amount of energy and life left (so does my wife) and we now have the money to do things we've always wanted to do. A lot of those are even more fun with kids who are young adults.

Agreed 100%. My wife and I had our son at 28/27, respectively. I look forward to being 45 when he's 18 and still being able to compete with him at basketball, ice hockey, running, or whatever he does.

My dad was 32 when I was born (not that different), and he's always taken pretty good care of himself, but he hasn't been genuinely in shape in 30 years. It got kind of lame when I started running circles around him at age 13 or so.

The difference of having a kid around your thirties and around your twenties is absurd. You had the chance to start your career properly and finish university.

Yeah, don’t get me wrong — I’m damned glad we started having kids after college/postgrad education.

To be honest, I’d have waited a couple more years, but my wife turned the thumbscrews and declared it was time to stop waiting.

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You're assuming that I'm on US, which I'm not... I started my computer engineering graduation at 20 so I will finish it by 25, then I'll do a post graduate course in IT phorensics so I'll finish my "basic" studies at 27. Also between high school and university I did two courses in IT too because I didn't know what to do at the time.....

As someone who has a son graduating in June, when I was 19.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OP is a fucking idiot. One kid alone is easily $15k worth of shit a year x 18=$270,000. And that is a low number.

EDIT - Not that I'm condoning drunk driving

Not sure OP is talking about finances alone, although DUI will cost you a hell of a lot if you end up unemployed because of it, can't get a job in the field you trained for (e.g. law, law enforcement, teaching, etc.), can't get credit to buy a home or credit generally, or any number of things. It's not just the $20,000 or so that the DUI itself costs you and the insurance costs - that's only part.

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I love my kids, I'm just saying having a kid in your late teens/early 20's is a massive financial hardship

Well having a kid can force people to shape up when they realize 'Holy shit I have this child to look after for at least as many years old as I am!'. So they stop drinking, doing drugs, and start throwing themselves at work or training to be able to take care of their child.

Just try not to think about the ones who need to and don't shape up.

I have a friend whose son is on his 6th year of an 8 year prison sentence for vehicular manslaughter.

He got drunk, he got high, he wrapped his car around a tree and killed his girlfriend in the process.

He was 21, with a baby daughter and his whole life ahead of him. And now this is something he will have for the rest of his life.

For fuck’s sake.

Do. Not. Drink. And. Drive.

I work in the life insurance world. Not only do DUI's and DWI's vastly increase the cost of your premium, but so do crashes/ speeding tickets as well. If you're a shitty driver, you're going to pay for it, literally. Get a couple of these, and you won't even be offered coverage if you try and apply.

Neither the company nor the underwriters want to deal with you if you can't drive well.

Yeah, my mom had me at 19, but nowadays that just means she gets to have her coworkers act scandalized when she says she's having a beer with her daughter because their children are all school-aged. They don't realize that I'm in my late 20s. It wasn't easy being a young parent, but she's really glad to have it out of the way while her coworkers' kids are begging for cars.

DUIs have no upsides.

This is what a lot of people aren't getting. They keep telling me how DIUs not as bad as being a teen mom. I'm sure being a teen mom sucks at times but at least you get a kid out of it, that hopefully you now love and are proud of raising. Car debt? ok you got to drive a nice car in your youth. Student Loans? Well you got to experience college, hopefully it leads to a good job. DUI? Nothing really good about it other than a learning experience. My sister was a young mom. She's now in her mid 40s, makes good money, had the energy to raise my nephew when she was young. Now she's probably glad she had a kid early no more parent-teacher conferences or driving a kid around for practice into her 40s and 50s.

Im 24 and have a DUI and I would much prefer to get another one than to have a kid at my age. DUIs are bad but they're not that bad. I've never had any issues finding a job with it on my record and I don't have another persons life to look after.

They’re an experience you never want to go through again.

My thought process is that if you just got a DUI, you got lucky that you didn't cause an accident that could lead you to way more trouble. I read stories all the time of people having great lives then their lives just fall apart from one night of partying.

Drunk driving can give your another persons death to look after the rest of your life

(I don't mean this as a personal attack)

I do. Fuck this guy.

Think about that next time you text in the car

You're fucking trash.

I'm not saying getting a DUI isn't shitty, because it is. But it is nowhere near as bad as having a kid you didn't expect. Mine was pretty much out of my life in a few years. It's never stopped me from getting a job. I got a security clearance a few years later.

I don't want to encourage people to drink and drive, because, just don't, but everyone here is being a tad dramatic.

In most planes a DUI will be on your driving record forever. Bad bad stuff.

Even having a kid in your 20s isn't that bad

You're supposed to have a kid in your 20s though? In your 30s the risk of genetic defect goes way up and fertility goes way down.

Even having a kid in your 20s isn't that bad

HEY!!!

I had a DUI when I was 20. It sucked big time but it definitely was not a life ruining scenario. Maybe I'm lucky that I worked for my dad and so he would give me rides to and from work. It was definitely not something I'm going to experience again but it certainly wasn't the worst thing. Having kids would be worse x1000

I have a buddy who got a DUI while he was in college and it effectively torpedoed his young adult life. He is intelligent enough to put it together somewhere down the road but that shit is perpetually following him right now.

He has only had coaching jobs since graduating and every new position he gets always has lul in the hire process when they find out he has a DUI on his record. He hasn't said it to me but I'm 99% sure he is still only landing these "assistant to the coach" positions (not to be confused with "Assistant Coaches") because his record keeps him from being hired onto full-time roles.

I feel terrible for him, only reason I don't feel worse is because he was definitely one of those kids that thought he was beyond it happening to him. If he didn't learn his lesson at the time then it would have just been a matter of time until it caught up to him.

One of my coworkers has 2 DUIs. I'm pretty sure he's finally learned his lesson, and thankfully no one was involved/hurt with his DUIs. He's lost over $30k after all is said and done, and I don't even know what his auto insurance costs now, it has to be through the roof.

Guy I work with had a dui, and before he went to court for it, he drove home drunk and fell asleep in a Taco Bell drive thru. 2 DUIs and it wasn’t until his second that his license was suspended... for 6 months. It’s crazy to me

Not to downplay DUI's but unless it was his third or fourth, the fines don't really kick in like that on the first or second. The third is when you have to deal with five figure fines and actual jail time.

Even having a kid in your 20s isn't that bad

I'd argue having a kid you can't afford and can't provide for is worse than getting a dui, assuming nobody gets hurt.

This is literally one of the worst things that you could do. Even having a kid in your 20s isn't that bad,

A kid costs like $180,000.

And if the person you were talking to said he couldn't get a license for 5 years there was something he wasn't telling you. Like that it was his fourth one or something. Most people keep their license, at least in the states ice lived in.

Lol kids are way worse. It's not even close.

I know a lot of people who had kids in their 20s. My sister had her son in her early 20s. She only had one. She's done raising him now that she's in her early 40s. I'm sure it was hard then but with family support she now has a paid off house and is self employed.

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This is just about what I told my DUI class instructor when he asked how I felt about the whole situation. I would have never stopped driving drunk had nothing ever happened. The DUI was the absolute BEST case scenario.

I appreciate that it set you straight, but getting a DUI to stop driving drunk would be like overdosing to get help with drug addiction.

Sure, I guess the end result worked out, but taking a bad habit to the closest extreme to literally dying isn't advisable.

I don’t think it’s advice. I think it’s words of encouragement to those who have already made the mistake.

Exactly this. Advise would be don't put yourself in the situation from the start.

Maybe that's the trigger to wake them up, maybe overdosing (and being revived) is something that scares people into making a change.

For me it was a huge wake up call, I was in the low range .075 (limit is .05) but the whole process of losing my license going to court was the slap in the face I needed

That's really an inspiring turn, congratulations.

It’s a wake up call for sure. Good on you for making it through it. Was a wake up call for me too.

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January of 2017 I got my first DUI.

12 days later I got my second DUI.

It was the biggest wakeup call of my life. Solidified the fact that I was a powerless alcoholic who needed help. I thought my life was completely over.

16 months later I have a job that I love, dozens of new supportive friends, a new positive outlook on life and this Wednesday in getting my interlock removed.

It's easy to slip into the Chicken Little mentality but everything will be okay. I used to hate it when people would tell me "You'll be taken care of" bir they were right.

If you wanna chat more about this PM me or just reply to this comment. Sounds like you're in a positive place but maybe I could help quell some worries or answer some questions for you.

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So to answer your first question about drinking, I've been going to AA and cutting out alcohol has gotten less difficult but I haven't been perfect. My goal is to cut out drinking 100%.

And about the secrecy and hiding of your interlock. The two only times I was most anxious about it was when starting it with possible people around and when going through fast food drivethrus lol the device itself turned into a funny love hate relationship where i could joke about its demanding nature to my friends and family.

But I did let it embarrass me in drivethrus or when a random person on the street or in a parking lot saw me blow into it. In reality they probably forgot about me with a minute or so but I was so worried about what people thought. In all honesty that embarrassment was me getting off easy compared to the amount of damage I could have done.

But to come back to your kids. You could start your car early but there are rolling tests, where you blow into it when driving. You probably won't be able to hide those. Regardless of the age I'd just tell your kids. It won't damage them or hurt your relationship. I can't tell you how they could learn from your honesty but I feel like I can confidently say that your honesty will go a long way opposed to you attempting to hide this.

It's only temporary. And it won't be as big of a hindrance as you'd imagine. Just don't demonize the device or yourself. We all make mistakes. Just make sure you learn from them.

Edit: Oh, and about the camera. Mine was put just left of the passenger's window. Not very big. Just enough to take my picture. Not super noticeable.

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Mechanics probably see it all the time. They give you multiple mouth pieces so I guess if you needed it serviced you can let them use a new one. Anyone can drive a car with an interlock device. It's just that you can only drive a car with an interlock device lol

And yeah my car would make me blow into it to start it and then again three minutes later and then every 4-11 minutes after that. They're all a bit different. Mouthwash within 15-20 minutes could create a false reading. I haven't chewed gum in my car for the past year out of fear.

With mine you weren't able to start it if you blow .03 and up. If you fail too many tests in a certain amount of time they can fine you.

If you live somewhere where it gets cold you should hang the device upside down and wrap it with a towel or jacket. I learned the hard way that your saliva can freeze making it so you can't blow into it at all.

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Thanks, you too!! I enjoyed sharing my experience with you. Typing it all out seems felt therapeutic

I was in the same boat. I went back to school and applied myself. Now I'm entering my senior year of an engineering degree.

All along the way I was sure that my arrest would stop me from a) going back to school, b) getting into an engineering program, and c) finding a job. "Why would they want me over somebody else?" Was the monologue running through my head every time I applied for something.

It's now been seven years since it happened, but I just wanted to say that I was very lucky that it did not ruin my life, but it doesn't have to be the end of the world. It's a wake-up call.

Thank you for saying this. It's been over 5 years, and the persistent gut feeling that I've forever damaged my potential in a way that can never be recouped is disheartening to say the least -- especially when mixed with ongoing depression.

Definitely depends on the state, hugely. You can't get DUI expunged in most (any?) states, but in my state, misdemeanor DUI isn't an extremely huge deal (legally - not ethically).

My state has 40,000 DUI convictions each year, so no, you're not totally fucked - fucking over that many people just in one state (per year!) would be an economic nightmare, if none of those people could get real jobs again or get credit again. It's just not sustainable, even if you're a right-wing 'tough on crime' type who wants them all locked up for life. You'd be crippling economies.

I'm in the middle of DUI proceedings due to a sleep-driving episode that happened during a psychotic break. There was never any intent on my part to drive drunk, or even knowledge that I was drunk, but it doesn't matter, legally speaking. I'm already in debt, so for me it's probably homelessness or total disability/public housing in the near future, with costs being in the range of $20,000. But even in my case, being wiped out by it, I won't need to inform my insurance company and it won't turn up on normal background checks, I'm told, so it won't be 100% impossible to get back on my feet again, once I have housing and an address. Having no criminal history helps. Having never even gotten a traffic ticket helps. Those are both big things.

In some states, my mugshot would already be online (coughFloridacough) and anyone with an internet connection could see my arrest record, even if I were innocent. My state protects me from even having to inform employers of any conviction for misdemeanor DUI, so I'm very lucky.

Which state do you live in if you mind me asking? And how do I find out which states don’t require a person to disclose a misdemeanor DUI?

Illinois. My lawyers tell me that I won't have to disclose to the insurance companies, but that's speculative since I'm still in the middle of proceedings.

The Internet tells me that I don't need to disclose to employers, in my state: "Job Opportunities for Qualified Applicants Act" is what we have in IL, and I believe it covers a range of offenses, not just DUI. It will still show up if employers want to do a thorough background check, but you don't have to mention it on applications.

Thanks! I’m in a different state that’s pretty tight on DUI offenses. I have a misdemeanor “baby dui” from being under 21 and driving drunk. The charge that’s on my record is “driving after illegally consuming alcohol” and I’m still worrying how much it’s going to fuck up me getting a good job in the future.

Unless you plan on driving a school bus, or becoming an OTR trucker, probably not much.

I plan on learning a trade and getting into the journeyman side of things so I hope not.

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Yeah man I hope it turns out ok

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Same man. I take it as yeah I can still have my guns and I got my fuck up out of the way. I’ve been sober from alcohol since and I’ve taken it as a pretty damn good thing to happen to me. Still worried me though but my mind runs anyways lol.

^^THIS! I was in my 4th year (senior) in an accelerated doctorate in physical therapy program, and between stress from my parents, school, working 50+ hours a week and a nasty break up I was drinking heavily just about every night after work. On top of everything, I didn’t feel right going to school for what I wanted to be, because it was what my family told me I should do. Plu, coming from a VERY conservative, Christian family, drinking was frowned upon and I “had” to study what I applied for.

So, I spiraled pretty bad until it happened, and really beat myself up about it for a few months. My grades took a big hit leading up to my DUI, and I chose to graduate with a BS instead of remediation to try again at grad school. I ended up meeting my fiancée after getting my act together, and now I’m getting married in August, on track to have a nursing degree while actually enjoying school, and I can picture myself staying in the same area, still drinking way too much, and I would’ve spent more time hung up on my tough breakup instead of finding someone who valued me and helped me figure out my life.

My DUI was an awful consequence to my lifestyle 4 years ago, and I wish it didn’t happen. It hurt my pride, my bank account, and put a strain on the relationship with my family that still hasn’t recovered, I find it hard to talk to anyone, but the bottom line is that I feel a lot better about myself and where I am in life. I’m working in the medical field which is what I always wanted, and I’m going to school for a degree that I’m passionate about, not because I’ll have a doctorate. I met the love of my life and I’m skeptical about my life being this great if I didn’t have my DUI. It’s just a matter of how you handle the situation and pull yourself up from it.

I agree you should use it as a turning point. My cousin was an alcoholic and got into a horrible wreck a few years back. Thankfully, no one died. Half his fake is permanently drooped like a stroke patient and he had to have weighted implants in his eyelids to be able to blink again.

However, he got clean, found Christ, repaired his relationship with his kids, and was there to be an at-home caretaker for his aging parents before their deaths. I was never even introduced to him (he's way older so I was a little kid when he was an alcoholic) but now I see him at all the family functions.

I'm happy you turned your life around. For some people that's a lot harder.

Close friend of mine ended up just getting 2 more after her first. I think the only reason she didn't end up in jail is the judge taking pitty on her because she had a kid. Although doing 6 months would probably set her straight because she's still out drinking regularly. She's pretty much shit on her entire life, can't support herself, and her kid will be who has to deal with the consequences.

Don't be that person.

I know people on their 3rd DUI. Crazy how some people can take a hint and some can't.

Getting a DUI was the one thing that showed me that I had a drinking problem. Believe it or not up until then I just thought I was a typical girl enjoying her twenties. Unfortunately it didn't help get me sober right away. But as of today I'm happy to say I have 8 months sober. I just remember crying to the cop who arrested me saying, "I could have killed someone." I'm VERY lucky that I didn't.

Congratulations! 8 months and many more to come :)

Thank you for this, recently got charged with a DUI at 19, now 20 and waiting to go to court. Definitely a huge wake up call.

Same... I got my DUI the day after my 26th birthday. My gf of 5 years had broken up with me 5 days before Xmas and i was a wreck. I was driving drunk more frequently. I'm surprised I didn't get pulled over on New Years or Saint Pattys day. I took my experience and I deffinetly learned from it. Best thing that ever happened to me. It pulled me from a funk and allowed me to open up to people about what I was feeling in my head. I let a lot of people down but I got through it. It's not the end, but man do I know what rock bottom feels like.

Would you advise a teenager to get a DUI? I mean, obviously not... certainly a DUI that sets someone who is on a bad path straight can be a good thing, but I’d advise youngsters not to risk it at all, ever.

I got a DUI in my mid twenties. It's coming on 5 years later and I'm just now starting to feel as though my life isn't directly affected by it.

But, I don't complain. It's better than having killed someone.

About 5 years ago here too. Uber since then never taking a chance again but still a depressed alcoholic however.

That's not as life ending as you would think.

Thank god I went through it at 19 and had it expunged at 20.

God I was dumb.

I would amend that to getting traffic tickets of any kind. It really fucks up your insurance and your employment options. I helped a friend study so she could get her CDL. She had s great, good paying driving job but she kept getting tickets and lost it after less than a year.

I had another friend have an employment offer withdrawn from an ambulance company due to all his speeding tickets. There are even jobs with very little driving involved that won’t hire people with poor driving records, so it’s not just certain professions.

I got a DUI last year, right after I finished my last final before I got was going to graduate. I fortunately was lucky that no one got injured and I was able to get off with what is called DWAI in NY, so it hasn’t hurt me too much, but was certainly a wake up call for my drinking. Not worth it at all.

Same. I got one in TX 6 months after I graduated I was so fucked until I got into a Pre trial diversion program and after a year and a half it's about to all go away. May 15th I go to court to get my charge dismissed. Definitely not worth it ever again.

Ha! Not in Wisconsin.

One of my girlfriend’s best friends got a DUI and within a few months became an elementary school teacher. No breathalyzer and was able to get a temporary license to drive to work.

I know three other people who all got OWIs or DUIs and honestly their lives haven’t really been effected.

Edit: By no means am I saying it’s ok to drink and drive. Just saying that Wisconsin is very relaxed around what is a very serious issue for our state.

As somebody who has had 3 DWIs before I turned 25 years old I can attest to the fact that it will fuck up everything you know. Obviously I had a problem with drinking not just drinking and driving. I always told myself I wouldn't drive but when you're that drunk you don't make rational decisions. I completed my 24 month program I've got my license back my insurance is down to normal and life pretty much continues on normal. Of course now the felony could hold you back if you let it, fortunately I didn't give up and make my own opportunities if you will. I will never justify drinking and driving but I had a substance abuse issue and it took a felony charge to give me the wake-up call I needed life is now spent sober and productively. I think God everyday I didn't kill family or something back when I was being an idiot.

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Same thing happened to me. I decided not to drive but turned the heat on. My seat was reclined and I had the emergency brake up. Still got a DUI. Pled guilty. People are being a little melodramatic in this thread. I’m a lawyer, I got the DUI in law school. Hasn’t affected my career at all and the fees were like 3k with legal fees included. Not saying to do it. I’ve never driven drunk and never plan to. But don’t freak out if you’ve already fucked up.

Ps. my insurance is like 139. This was 3 years ago and I live in PA.

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WHat state are you from? And what is your career? Wonder why it impacts people differently

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I'm glad you learned from it!

You cannot get it expunged? Maybe speak to a lawyer and find out!

If I ever need a lawyer will you be lawer? For anything legal?

I’m a health insurance lawyer and I suspect you’re not a hospital so... I’m as good as your college roommate for anything criminal or civil.

Well then can you help me get cheap health insurance?

I got a DUI, it was hard but not life ruining.

This is definitely important. I got obscenely lucky with mine and had it reduced to an improper control and still was out 4 grand. It's a huge setback and not worth the risk even if you don't care about the safety of others and yourself.

This. Fucking 5 years later and I still feel like I'm paying for it somehow.

Background checks. That's how.

When I go out and get drunk, I'll text my parents to pick me up. It's alittle embarrassing for a 25 year old but definitely better than getting a DUI

Legal trouble in general man.

DUI/DWI is horrible and definitely one of the worst decisions. However I also believe getting into big trouble/being arrested in general can be just as bad legally. Especially a drug or weapon charge, God help you if they’re both at the same time. Being young and dumb is common, but fucking up with criminal charges that will basically never leave you no matter what diversion/probation/expungement deal you get is never worth it.

I got an OUIL when I was 20, then another when I was 21 (pled down to impaired driving). I was living a very "carpe diem" lifestyle, ignoring any possible negative consequences in pursuit of having a good time. The result, in addition to the various fines, was 5+ years without a full license and a major anchor dragging down my career prospects even now, 16 years later.

I was a college student who worked full-time when I was arrested both times, and tried to pack as much partying into my rare free time as possible. That pursuit of a social life backfired, because you can imagine the effect that not having a drivers license from age 21 to 26 had. No picking up women for dates, no road trips to see distant friends. Mostly 5 years of sitting alone at home, wishing I lived in a city with better public transportation.

The bright side of that is that it made it easy to focus on school and graduate. Unfortunately, I'm now 36, and about 5 months ago I finally got the type of job I should have been able to get right after getting my degree. Years of applying for jobs that high school graduates routinely fill and, despite having a college degree in the field, I couldn't even get an interview. The red flag in my history basically set me 15 years behind. 15 years of non-progress I'll never get back.

Those are the only two times I've been in trouble (I haven't even been pulled over since getting my license back 10 years ago). And now I find myself, at age 36, painfully single and still in the same dirtbag apartment I moved into when I was 20 because I'm just now working my way above poverty level wages. All of that can be cleanly traced to the consequences of drinking and driving. Call yourself a damn cab.

I’d counter that this should be amended to say “driving under the influence” instead of “getting a DUI,” as the latter implies that the penalty is the thing to avoid. Drinking and driving is the crux issue- had a family friend imprisoned for (only) 2 years for drinking and driving. He hit a car full speed, killing a woman’s husband, child, and unborn baby- but not the woman.

Knew someone who made a dumb decision and got a DUI. He couldn’t drive for 2 years. His mom had to drop him off at work. Dude was in his early thirties.

I’m 25 and have just recently put a dwi behind me I got when I was 21. 20k between lawyers, fines, probation fees, license surcharges, the list goes on. All that to still wind up in jail for months. Had to leave university because of it. 4yrs later and I’m finally starting to rebuild my life. Now I’m scared to drive even within the “legal” limit. Don’t drive messed up, it sucks getting caught.

Can I ask why you were in jail for months from a DUI? What state? I always hear people in my state (MN) say first DUI is 90 days no license, typically no jail time.

Mine was in Texas. I only did two month (I guess I sounded more dramatic up there sorry) but that was mainly because I just fucked probation completely off, never even tried to stop smoking weed. In Texas it’s 180 days to a year if you get revoked for violations on a dwi. I think the only reason I didn’t get that much was because I already had my fines paid off.

I got a DUI when I was 20. Now I'm 23 and the Intoxicated Drivers Resource Center decided 2 years after I took my required classes there to tell me I was non-compliment with the requirements there. I took those classes in April of 2016, and in February of this year is the first time I got a letter saying I have to attend a 16 week outpatient program. They sent me to court and the court just told me to call the IDRC. So that's what I did, every day for a month. Never got a hold of them, only voicemails. They finally called me back, after I got a letter from the DMV saying my license has been suspended again until I meet the requirements. So now I won't have a license all summer and I can't go to Greece like I'd originally planned. I'm fucking livid and if this shit creeps back up on me years in the future I'm going to blow my brains out. The initial punishments were enough to make me never drink and drive again, now this shit is just getting ridiculous and unnecessarily expensive.

Don't drink and drive.

In General, just don’t party away your 20s. When you’re 33 and at an entry level position it sucks. Speaking from experience.

A friend from high school just messaged me a few days ago saying that he had gotten a DUI and felt like his life was ruined. I really felt his pain. He'd fucked up so badly but I'm glad he didn't hurt anyone.

I made the mistake of getting two DUIs in my 20s. It took me over 6 years to get my license back and had more than 20k in fees and bills when it was all said and done.

Yes! This can set your so far back. My brother got one when he was 18 and then one when he was 24. The fees, plus totaling his car the second time, plus having to pay for taxis and other transportation and having to tell his new boss that he couldn't drive to clients and properties and the couple days of jail time really set back would could have been a really successful start to his adult life. He was very very fortunate that both times he didn't hit anyone else (the second time he hit a curb going way too fast and flipped his car) and that he didn't have any major injuries.

Talking about that had a mate and his friend jump into a porche cayman just this weekend after a few drinks and decide to drive home instead of getting a taxi. Long story short they decided not to wear seatbelts and speed on a bypass resulting in them losing control and smashing into a tree so fast that they got torn apart flying through the windshield and they were only 27. Please for the love of god do not drink and drive.... It's just not worth the risk and it's a waste of life

And don't speed with no seat belt

This. I got one in 2012. Figured I was unlucky, quit drinking for a while because I was bitter. Having a criminal record and having just gotten my masters degree, I couldn’t find a decent job anywhere. Positions in my field didn’t want me because of the record, places like McDonald’s didn’t want me because they thought I would take their job. I kind of gave up on myself after that. Got a job cocktail waitressing which eventually led to me using drugs because that was the norm at the nightclub I worked at.

Fast forward two years into addiction (never once tried drugs before my DUI), and I get a second DUI with felony drug possession. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. This was in 2016 and I still can’t even drive myself to work (I work a respectable 9-5 now in a different state than the first DUI). Not to mention heinous fines, jail time, 200 hours of community service, and calling a phone number every night to see if I have to go in for a random drug test. Plus regular probation office visits.

On the bright side, it was a wake up call to me that I had a problem. I went to an inpatient treatment facility for a month, did 6 additional weeks of intensive outpatient, and still regularly go to AA and NA. My life is far more fulfilling now, despite not driving, because I no longer use mind altering substances. But man. I wish I would have just thought of the consequences before any of this ever started. Nobody ever thinks they’re going to be the person to get a DUI until they do. I could never see myself getting pulled over for a DUI, and I wasn’t. I crashed and totaled both cars. It’s not worth the risk guys, get an Uber, and if you think you have a problem, get help before some life event makes you get help.

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Thanks! It took a long time but I finally realized like “so what if I’m starting life over at 26?” (age I got clean), better then than a decade or two down the road when I had more to lose. Addictions a funny thing, but I was given the “gift of desperation” to finally rebuild my life on the solid foundation I called rock bottom haha

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I got kind of lucky. I took a job as a receptionist for a counseling agency (my Masters was in clinical/counseling psychology). They couldn’t figure out why I didn’t want to be a therapist during my interview and I just said it isn’t my calling at this point in life and I wanted a “simple” job (the truth was the BBS took my credentials which were from a different state anyways and I can’t practice therapy anymore, and knew I wouldn’t pass a background check). I got hired there before my felony charges/second DUI, and they kept me employed while I took a 30 day leave of absence for treatment (roughly 6 months after I was working there, but I worked my ass off and have always shown excellent work ethic). I ended up getting a promotion (but no raise, but realistically how much of a fit am I going to throw, as an employed felon for a clean cut agency lol) to a better position that was a better fit for me in billing.

I do worry about when I decide its time to move on to the next stage of my life of having a job that can really pay the bills besides barely making ends meet, but for now, even almost two years into recovery I think this job is the best option for me because it’s a “safe” environment for my recovery, and that’s more important to me than money at this moment.

I cannot believe I never got a DUI because I drove drunk too many times to count and thank God never hurt anyone or myself. I no longer drink and have heard stories from others who have said DUIs just really screwed things up.

Simple fix for this.. move to Wisconsin lol

Where were you when I was 22?

But seriously, this person is correct. Also, keep your shit insured... I fucked up quite a bit in my early twenties.

Ha! Good thing I got mine at 19!

Anyone ever heard of a DWAI? Driving While Ability Impaired?

I plead down a DUI to an owvi and it ruined my career path and limited what I was able to do there after. Trust me it's cheaper no matter the price to cab it.

Just come on up to Wisconsin, your first is only a misdemeanor.

I believe it’s second, actually. First isn’t. I just learned this recently.

Yea I got 3 duis I’m one state but 3 different counties all before I turned 20. Got very lucky and had all 3 dropped, i was lookin at 2 years minimum in county and I got out of it without loosing my license.

How/why were they dropped? The judge decided to drop them?

Was there an arrest on your record despite them being dropped?

While in college my wife had a casual friend who left a family Christmas party drunk and drove with some cousins in the car. Got into an accident that killed one of the cousins. Entire family turned against her. She spent serious time in jail, never finished college and has to spend her life knowing that she was responsible for her own cousin dying. Last we saw her, she was a total disaster and was not able to hold down a job.

Fuck yeah, especially when you take off in a car that isn't yours.

got one when i was 19. ahead of the game. but in all seriousness fuck that shit. not worth it. the fines, drug/alcohol classes and losing your license and potentially killing somebody/s

I want this to be the number one comment. After reviewing the comment thread below, this whole thread needs to be at the top.

A coworker/buddy of mine got a DUI a little over a year ago. He’s currently paying about $1000/mo in car insurance.

Totally agree to this. In a company I worked for, there was the chance to work in a foreign country on a short(ish) term assignment (1-3 years)- with travel completely paid for, a nice stipend and relocation bonus. Because of the strict laws to get a work visa, people with any history of a DUI were omitted from being eligible. ANY DUI in their past, even if it was 10+ years ago (i.e. when they were in their 20’s).

Don’t do even chance it. You’ll regret it.

I'm 22 and just got one a couple months ago. I'm an American living in Germany. I got fucked. Lesson learned.

Don’t listen to em Randy. Just let the liquor do the talking.

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Glad you're here to tell the story. I don't mind spending the extra cash on an uber.

And isn't it true you can't get into Canada as an American with a DUI?

My brother is in jail for his third DUI. Thankfully he didn't hurt anyone or I wouldn't consider him my brother anymore. He is an addict and knows it. Thankfully a 4 month stint in rehab (after a failed 90 day stint) plus almost dying several times from alcohol poisoning was a wake up call. It is hard to see him in jail and think of him in jail. But I'm glad he is there to pay his debt and I can only hope it really sticks after this. The stakes are high if he doesn't follow through with sobriety.

I live in a rural small town. Drinking and driving is a very common thing because the bars are all miles away from your home and 'everyone does it'. I never went out to the bars because I could never drink. If I went with friends I would have to drive them home, if I went alone I either just couldn't drink for hours before I wanted to leave or not get drunk. I missed out on a lot of fun when I was young because of it, but would never change that.

We have at least 2 or 3 DUI deaths a year in the area. At least 3 kids from my high school class died before 30, one before 20 from drinking, or because their friends drove 'since they were not as drunk'.

A couple of years ago a drunk driver crashed his SUV in front of my home in the ditch. When a passerby called 911 (against his wishes) he bolted with his daughter who was bleeding. Two hour later the police found him, and of course he wasn't drunk at that point. Part of the delay was that they took 40 mins to get to the accident, and the rest of the time was debating if they were going to go to his house up the road. An empty bottle was on the side of the road that had fallen out of the vehicle. No DUI. Still has his kid.

This. Got a DUI at age 20 and now I have a criminal record, cannot drive without jumping through many monetary and legal hoops, don't drink and drive

My sister's boyfriend got his third one two weeks before she found out she was pregnant. He was in jail and she was alone with a newborn. He is not allowed to drive still and it puts huge pressure on her to have to be taxi for him and have to run all of the errands herself. Luckily he got a job he can walk to. My sister also found out she has rheumatoid arthritis to top it all off, poor thing.

Drinking and driving is so fucking stupid. If you are lucky you could end up in jail, but worse you could kill someone or yourself.

Please please don't drive high either. Tons of my friends have been in crashes high. It counts as under the influence too as well. It is not worth it.

I'm in my 40s. Can I get one now?

Got one when I was 22. Took a few years to recover.

Am on the other side of this. Got 2 DUI’s within 3 months related to stress from medical school. Definitely thought I learned my lesson from the first. Lost my license, independence, and I’m trying to get back on my feet. If there’s any advice I can give, don’t respond to stress in public.

Mine hasn't even hit court yet and it's been hell. I almost wish I could say that I actually made that mistake. Getting punished for nothing makes me lose faith.

So much this. When I went out with friends, I used to wait like a few hours after drinking before driving back home, but since I've gotten a little older and bit wiser I just fucking pay for the uber now. Not worth risking it even if you wait it out until you're "okay".

I wanted to expand on this on the best case scenario if you get 1. You will need to pay court fines. Your car will be towed. Your license may be suspended for a year. If it's not the restricted license for work or school is very limiting. You can get a breathalyzer in your car which will run about 100-150 a month. Insurance will go up. The total cost will be about 10-18k. If the type of work you did was driving or had to drive for work, good luck trying to keep or get a job. You will be limiting your job options to non driving ones. For some it may not be a big deal, but you will be surprised how many job you won't be able to get when they run your background.

if you think you can't afford an uber or taxi my best advise is sleep on the back seat of your car and stash your keys no where near where your car is. Crash at a friend's place. If you get caught you will end up sleeping on a cold cement floor so it may be better to sleep on the street where people can't see you then try to drive. You'll get the experience of spending the night for a DUI without actually getting 1.

Uuuh... what is a DUI

Why don't you read one of the comments?

Why dont you write the whole word in your comment? Every comment i read says "oh yeah that fucked me over" or just also says "DUI". I dont want to read the whole comment chain when i dont know what im even reading CAUSE I DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ALL ARE TALKING ABOUT. Jesus...

Sorry for being rude but it takes the same time to just write what it is in one sentence than writing "Why don't you read one of the comments?"

It's a pretty common word. But you could also just look it up.

It's a pretty common word. But you could also just look it up.

Not everyone on Reddit is from america...

But you could also just look it up.

If you're more aggressive I just might tell you.

Or, you know, you can fucking Google it.

This so much. One thing that people don't think about is how it can affect your ability to travel. I help college graduates get work visas to teach English in Korea and China. A DUI makes you ineligible and people are heartbroken when they find out, it never gets easier telling them they fucked up their lives so much by not ordering a cab. I've even seen people try to fake their criminal record check to try and get around it. And it's not just for work visas, lots of countries will deem you criminally ineligible to enter as a tourist if you have a DUI regardless of if you plan to drive on your trip. Imagine saving up for the to of a lifetime, flying on a long ass flight just to get denied at the border and sent home.

Ima stop drinking.

One thing my friends and I didn’t realize in our early 20’s is that BUZZED DRIVING IS DRUNK DRIVING. “We’re Not drunk, we’re buzzed! It’ll be ok!” NO.

I could understand it before the neoprohibitionists started down the 0% rule, but a few drinks before driving doesn't impair anyone.

Christ all these replies make me glad i got mine in Wisconsin, don’t get me wrong, i actually consider it one of the absolute worst mistakes I’ve made. I was completely alone and nobody else involved, just drifted off to the shoulder and ended up rolling it. I’m lucky to be alive, but i live in the only state where it’s not considered a crime so while it was (is) very expensive, it wasn’t wreck my life expensive.

Let me tell ya kids about the feeling of waking up in a cold sweat feeling nauseous because “what if” i would have hit someone else? Take an Uber. Sleep in your car. Do anything else besides drive.

Cue the folks who are going to tell me how awful i am despite the remorse i feel, because it happens every time it comes up online.

Responsible people who take a taxi home or stay at a friends place can still get one when they drive the next day. That's why you see RBTs set up at 7am and carry on in the morning and you wonder who's that drunk at 11am. After a good night's sleep and you've had your water during the night you may wake up feeling refreshed which is why you don't realise you're still over the limit.

22 from Kansas here. Dealing with my second DUI now, and my father recently passed from liver failure to top it off. Just don't fucking drink and drive. Especially where the laws are strict. It will ruin you in more ways than you can imagine. But if you do get one, don't beat yourself up too much. Some of the classes and therapy sessions may seem corny. But take them with a grain of salt and learn as much as you can. I promise it will help.

Seriously! I moved to Phoenix 6.5 years ago, and one of my neighboring families became some of my closest friends: a husband, wife, and two kiddos, a 10 year old boy and 8 year old girl (ages are approximate).

After knowing them for a few years, I knew that they drank a lot - like a lot, a lot. But they had always stayed home when drinking, hanging out with different neighbors in lieu of going out anyway - so no drunk driving. At least until one night when the wife had agreed to allow her son, who was then 12ish years old, to stay the night over a his friend's house in Surprise - a suburb about 20-30 minutes away depending on traffic.

The wife had been drinking, but again was staying home for the evening. Then she found the son's report card and decided that he wasn't allowed to stay at his friend's anymore. She drove, stinking, mad drunk to Surprise to get her son - with her daughter also in the back seat.

She and the daughter made it to Surprise without incident and they picked up the son. On the way back, she blacked out at the wheel and ran into a concrete barricade at 50mph.

I don't remember if the wife was, but I know the daughter was ejected on impact. Wife had a shattered pelvis, broken legs, and arms and whatnot. Daughter snapped her femur in several places. Son was pinned in the car and died on impact.

He was only 12. His mother's stupid, selfish actions cost her bright, happy, kind little boy from growing into the man that he deserved to be.

TL;DR: Don't drive drunk, especially not with your children in the car.

I just got one In December. Still in court. I’m 25. Big mistake :(. Learn from me friends.

just fucking coast through life waiting for something to happen. Nobody is gonna walk up to you and hand you a meaning to your life or a fulfilling career.

adding to this; just because you don't know what to do with your life, doesn't mean you should do nothing.

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Same but tbh I'm still going to be a useless piece of shit even having read this. :p

True tho

If you're aimless, go get a job where you help others. I wake up knowing I'm going to help other people and they'll be happy, even if frankly I just do it for a paycheck.

I work with people who need government assistance. The number of people abusing the system is miniscule, the ones that really need it make it worth the work.

How does one get into that field? Does one need to go to college? If so, how many years?

We have positions open from clerical support needing nothing more than a diploma or GED through administrative law judges (ALJs) who need a JD and to pass the bar exam.

Currently, our greatest need in Indiana is for DCS family case managers, an extremely important job and one that to be honest I just don't have the heart to do. They need a Bachelor's degree and to pass some special requirements as outlined on that page, in addition to twelve weeks of OJT.

There areother options as well: The Peace Corps works worldwide to help people, or you can find an opening that fits your interests with Americorps.

Lastly, let's say you're sick of politicians and think you can do better: Consider running for office and putting your job into the hands of your fellow citizens, working to prod the bureaucracy to remember that its ultimate purpose is to serve the people, not enrich the few. Many elected positions go uncontested, giving no choice in the outcome. While the person who goes uncontested isn't always bad, I'm of the opinion that choice in a democracy is always a positive thing.

No matter what you decide to do, though, all I ask is that you do it well and be proud that you're helping other people. 🌼

I have a BA in political science, where is a good way to find local government (city, county) jobs that help people?

Well, your BA is worth more than my yapping on Reddit, but I would imagine, had I the benefit of your degree, that I'd find a field of public service that I was interested in and could work with daily and use the PoliSci degree to liason with your state's general assembly.

Let's say you decide that the welfare of the next generation is the most important thing in improving society, so you want to work for DCS/CPS. You could work internally for the agency to try to educate state legislators on the best allocation of public funds to ensure that you do the most good for the greatest number of children. You could focus specifically on anti-abuse, or you could work in a lobbying position in an agency like mine that allocates money into medical care for the underage.

Perhaps you find it your life's goal to ensure that every child in your state, regardless of the circumstances of their parents, has medical care. You could work either within government to push for this, or you could work for a political party with this as your goal. In this case, probably finding and contacting the state progressive caucus would be ideal, as you can probably exert political pressure on even the most conservative legislators to help children with health care without much in the way of backlash.

Frankly I wish I had that education so I could push for more comprehensive care programs, but helping clients one at a time is awfully rewarding too.

I wanted to be a cop but I ended up working in mental health. Connections got me further than my education ever has or ever will. Meet the right people and you can get a career a lot easier than you think.

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What do you do? if you don't mind.

I tutor, basically.

even if frankly I just do it for a paycheck.

Know, too, that this if fine. We're not all lucky enough to find fulfillment through work. Sometimes work is just to pay the bills so that you can afford to do the things that really mean something to you.

My boss asked me why I work where I do, and why I'm so willing to stay late before everyone else.

Well, because I found a job where I help people, and that makes me happy. I went to school for forestry and horticulture, now I work IT for world famous non-profit for half of what I made working IT at my previous company. Why? Well to quote Principle Skinner, "It's nice to feel wanted."

Idk how the number is minuscule my dad rent houses to people with section 8 and has at least 20/25 people abusing it. I think he rents to then cause the people abusing it usually are smarter and have more responsibility than the people that need it

Honestly, Section 8 and unemployment are programs outside of the scope of my agency and I don't have a valid basis to comment on them. I don't have any prior familiarity with them.

On the other hand, I do see SNAP (food stamps) and TANF (welfare) abuse cases and know they're a tiny minority. Most of the people receiving benefits and running into hitches are that way due to not receiving enough guidance in applying for benefits.

Yeah I think it's just worse in my state too cause most state employees here are nowhere near as dedicated as u sound. To be honest now that I think about it alabama always has a bad economy probably cause were so incompetent in solving these issues along with every other one.

Alabama used to be competent as hell https://twitter.com/joe_stapes/status/940960131235373056

This EXACTLY what I did. I was working at a dead end retail job and I decided to go back to college and study behavioral health at 30. I currently work as a d&a counselor and it's so fucking fulfilling knowing you make a difference in someone's life. The hardest part for me was getting that initial momentum going in the beginning.

I absolutely can’t work in any service position. I care too little and can’t stand people.

Some people become attorneys, others businessmen, others doctors, others computer programmers. We need a variety of people to survive as a species.

I'm more reaching out to those people who would thrive in helping others but found themselves lost in the sea of choices. Many people have been brought up to feel that working for anything other than big bucks is wrong and a waste of one's talents.

Just do what's right for you.

Same. Helping others is the best career option if you're unguided. I want to be a biologist in a few fields but I don't know which and I don't know which one I could get a good job in. I chose to couple nursing with that so at least I can work to help others while I also work on a biology masters/try to find research funds.

Wow, you're a better person than me: Nursing would kill me, I just can't be around people actively in pain like that.

I feel thankful you're around, willing to help people while you learn how to do even more! 🌼

I did this and it ended up with fraud, what should I do now?

Are you saying you need to report benefits fraud?

If so, let me know what type and which state (if US) and I can give you a report hotline.

If you mean that you somehow committed fraud, I'd suggest contacting a local attorney.

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$$ =/= Happiness

My girlfriend didn't understand this when I decided against a job that pays pretty well.

And you’ll probably live to regret it

Not if I have anything to say about it. ;)

Kidding.

I'll tell you I flunked out of college and then coasted for like five years till I was 25. Went back and almost flunked out again, had to beg my last professor to give me a C so I could graduate. That degree was in business and although it got me the job over some other candidates here or there it never got me a real job.

So I went back to school again. This time to a community college to get an associate degree. This time it was in IT and I was passionate about it. Soared to the top of my class, got an internship for the school, and had four great job offers afterwards, one being AT the school. Super proud of myself. Graduated in March of last year and already got promoted to Assistant Director of instructional Design and Technology. Doing great now at 29.

My point is, you can slack off a lot in your early twenties but some day you will probably have a wake up call and kick your ass in gear and probably even find a field you love. Honestly if I had done what I've done in the past few years back when I was 18 I probably wouldn't be doing as well as I am now because I would have squandered my education and done poorly. Sometimes it's best to wait.

I did the exact same thing as you, am 25 now and going back to study computer science in two months. Hope I'll end up as successful as you.

Good job man that's awesome. I'm sure many many doors will open for you. Is your CS program focusing on programming languages or is it more focused towards something else?

My education is focused towards networking, server administration, and cyber security. My brother went for CS and focused on programming. He's doing amazing now but he was always kind of great at life. The reason I ask is because if you were doing something more Windows server or Cisco networking oriented I would be happy to help you in any way I can. I work for a college so I have mad resources and I can always pretend I'm helping a student.

Going through the syllabus it looks very programming focused, though very short on maths and the like, only one calculus module.

You could actually be of great help because I'm currently doing my A+ and N+ course before I start my degree. Would you advise studying for the CCNA as well as a degree? Or do you think an A+ would be enough to get me an entry level job nowadays? And I've been told cyber security is a burgeoning field at the moment, have you had much experience with it?

Thanks so much by the way, I'd appreciate any guidance I can get.

Yeah so I have my A+ and I would say the jobs you can get around here are very limited and I think people have that issue. If you can get your foot in the door with it you can get paid fairly well but finding a job with just it is fairly hard from my experience, and from the experience of our placement team trying to find jobs for the people who couldn't pass the ccna.

I have the CCNA Routing and Switching cert which alone is fairly decent but I'm studying to take the CCNA Security cert soon. I recommend both because even without a degree you can get a fairly well paying job in networking. The CCNA is pretty easy to pass if you invest in the pass guarantee vcem software that has basically a quiz dump of the whole test. You can just study that, taking the test over and over, reading the explanations as to why it's the answer, and it really helps get a broad understanding of networking. I also recommend getting Cisco packet tracer so you can play with synthetic networks.

If you want to program though, go that route as networking won't have much programming to it. It has a lot of command line stuff which is really fun and kind of similar to programming but not really the same thing.

slack is great. we shall regret no slack.

don't let them push their 'do things' crap on you

all hail slack

Yup, somehow I'm okay with this

I'm a porn account?

From a standpoint yes, I (user) am making a direct statement to my Reddit account.

Oh that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying!

I have found my spirit guide.

I am sorry, my child.

Hello brother

No "negative-sum" days. I read that on a r/getmotivated post a while ago and it stuck with me. Just do something for your personal progression each day. It adds up.

If you keep telling yourself that you definitely will be. People like to make fun of positive self talk but it’s a cliche because it’s a tried and true motivational technique. Negative self talk is just as effective as demotivation, even if you think you’re just kidding around or being humble.

hey, what'd you say you little shit. don't ever speak like that to u/CForKevin

do you understand.

Lol cheers mate.

Just do something, even if it's little things like organizing your shelves, if I'm in a hole I try to find something easy that I can look at after an hour or 2 and say "I did a thing".

It does wonders for my mood if I'm not really doing anything of note. (might not work for you, but it's worth a shot)

Yeah when I do little things they help a bit.

Was into Gamemaker for a little bit but everytime I try to learn a language I get to a point I just can't understand. Whether it's where to put a code or what it can be used for.

Was into web development in high school. Got CSS and HTML okay but Javascript was another story.

I'm awkward as fuck with my hands so I'm not so good at hands on stuff.

This is accurate for me.

"Not all who wander are lost"

I sure as hell feel like it. 😂

that's part of it though, being a useless piece of shit is ok. No one defines your happiness besides yourself; sometimes the feeling that you 'failed' is because you're catering to the hopes and dreams of people besides yourself. Society has a vested interest in aspiring you to do great things, lifting others up, and burning you out. Just because you can't fulfill that, doesn't mean you can't be happy

Which makes me feel worse

What do you need? Or do you not know what you need?

What do you mean? What do I need?

If you feel worthless, your journey has just begun. If you're not an interesting person, strive to be one. There's endless information at your fingertips.

Aaah yeah you're right

Think of the future, continue to build up the skills you want or need. Have fun, take it seriously but not too too seriously. Continue to meet people, to know industry professionals and stuff

I have found when I feel the most directionless the best course of action toward the goal of getting more engaged in life is figure out something that TERRIFIES you, and run toward it. If its asking that one person out, fear of quitting a job, fear of knowing yourself too well, fear of breaking out of a routine, fear its "too late", or even fear of not knowing what you want.

Fear, depression, and anxiety are the stuff we spend our lives running from, only to find them again around the next corner. Instead of seeing those things as enemies, see them as big red exit signs telling you EXACTY where you need to go to change your life. The challenge here is taking actions that may emotionally feel horrible, and entirely wrong. Because you won't see the benefit until you are on the other side of it.

Listen to this:

https://youtu.be/Yrj6AiGN2fk

12 Rules for Life my friend. Look that shit up.

That guy butchers pretty much any philosophy he touches. Honestly this book is just another reasonably good but relatively unremarkable self help book with a bunch of wacky political nonsense thrown in.

That is complete bullshit. What? You didn’t even touch the book. I’m more than halfway through the book and most of what Jordan Peterson has talked about has been Christianity, his life, psychology and works by Jung, Nietzsche, Dostoyevsky, Socrates, and other ancient and historical myths, religions, history, philosophers, and scientists. He has barely touched politics at all in his book.

Also he covers a plethora of philosophies but I believe you’re being disingenuous in your claim that he “butchers” those philosophies. Countless hours of lectures are available online and if you can provide proof that he has butchered even one philosophy I will eat my words.

I'll respond to this later as to what he gets wrong. But basically his idea of what postmodernism is is inaccurate, and his idea of cultural marxism or neo marxism doesn't make sense. And some more stuff I think, but those are the big ones.

Impressive point there. Why don't you just elaborate a little? Say something.

~~Or are you just one of those people who's starting to feel like JBPs honest approach might fuck up your long term game plan for superficial intellectual superiority?~~

Alright alright calm down there Samdi, this isn't necessary.

That's a pretty defensive response, I'm interested in his point of view if he wants to elaborate

Yeah i should go take a nap. Thanks for the shoulder tap.

:) respect for acknowledging it

He doesn't know what 'postmodernism' means, despite it being basically the one word he says the most.

Yes! I started listening to Jordan Peterson and he is an inspiration now

Never heard of him until 4 days ago. Now he’s always showing up in suggested videos

He can be inspirational, but he tends to go pretty hard on the "toughen up" thing. He has a pretty conservative position on gender roles that's not really totally with the times. Just take that kind of stuff with a grain of salt.

also stay away from his politics, he says some wack stuff man.

You think they're not smart enough to make their own opinion about something here, so you tell them not to look into it and analyse it for themselves?

His position on gender roles is scientific, and he's still mature enough to accept calling someone by their prefered pronoun just as long as they're not being an asshole and coersing him into a specific language use.

He's not a biggot. He's just calling out the "thoughtcrime" SJW stuff which completely ignores science much the same with creationists and evolution.

My personal experience was that I found him very inspiring and watched a bunch of his videos and thought I was going to be more inspired to do stuff. Some of those ways of thinking I think I held onto for the better, but most of that stuff just made me put way more pressure on myself to be way more productive and I just ended up being more hard on myself and not actually feeling much better. I also ended up picking up a lot of political views that when I really introspected on later, I realized that they were pretty nonsense. JBP is very good at making that kind of thing sound good, but once you put what he says in plain English, it often turns out to be either very obvious or pretty obviously bad politics/philosophy. I am simply urging the other commentor to be aware of these things going in, because while I think that there are some things of value in his content, it is also sprinkeld with some pretty ridiculous, backwards, traditionalist stuff. In the end I think that the good ideas I ended up with could have been acquired with much less pain and nonsense if I had just read actual philosophers first.

I would encourage you to actually check his sources for his "scientific justifications", since a lot of it comes from dubious sources. Most of his positions on gender roles are based on speculation. He is a Jungian psychologist for pete's sake, a school following a psychoanalyst for whom the term "scientist" is pushing it, since he didn't actually practice the scientific method.

He did not understand the bill c-16 and the effect it would have. His opposition to it is based on the fear that it is motivated by "postmodern neo-marxists", not by people who want trans people to be happy.

You mentioned that you could have done without the pain and nonsense from going through Peterson, but he was and is a great gateway into those philosophers and psychologists. While it is good to have a balanced persepective and read up on the original materials, it does not disqualify Peterson's work, which has been to take that information, distill it, and try to pass it on in understandable ways those who lack direction, are confused/lost in their lives, and need to overcome some serious apathy.

To not have him would be a detriment to many, as there are not a lot of figures who are invested in helping individuals help themselves. Often motivational speakers/ted talk speakers provide you a convenient, single-concept pill that you are supposed to apply to every aspect of your life, but your life can be lacking in many different aspects. After about stacks of self-help books over the years, I have grown to realize that their quippy sound bites help them sell books to those eager to transform quickly without helping you understand yourself on a fundamental level. Instead of giving you a cure-all method, he has outlined some parameters that helps the individual take steps towards their own self-defined meanings.

The extreme pressure you have placed on yourself is not a result of JP, as he does take care to mention that you should treat yourself as someone you care about, and need to reason with. Being overly hard on yourself sounds like you have approached it in a heavy-handed way.

I am also starting to look into Jung, and while I have typically shied away from the supernatural, mystical aspects of psychology, his concepts on dual personalities is something I find interesting. I am trying not to write off great thinkers entirely until I understand their material enough to disagree with it. With anything, you are free to accept what works for you and reject what does not, but I would rather apply this to concepts than to dismiss individuals as a whole.

Yeah I think you are pretty on the nose with all of his positive aspects. I just think it is disappointing how unnecessarily reactionary and traditionalist his politics are, and wish he would stick to his actual area of experience. So I think there is value to take away from his stuff, but one must be careful to take all the politics stuff with a lot of grains of salt.

His recommendation for young men has a lot to do with embodying the archetypal hero. A lot of his positions on women I think are pretty hugely sexist, and I think that this results in some of his positions on men also reinforce unnecessary gender roles. While it is important for anyone to be tough, to a degree, we all also need to know how to be compassionate and agreeable when the situation calls for it, and be able to work together with others.

I do think he doesn't actually talk about what it really means to care for yourself like you would another, though. I think that compassion and charity for yourself and others is something hugely important that he neglects to talk about much (or at least in anything I've seen).

Overall, as time goes on, it seems like more and more he just is pandering to his political base or trying to grow his political message and following. Earlier on it seemed like he was more interested in spreading a message of self improvement, but now it seems like a politically adversarial movement against people with legitimate grievances about how our society currently works. Half of his tweets are calling someone who criticizes his book an idiot or bragging about how much the book has sold.

Overall I think that he was the same kind of figure as one which many people need, and while the tools he is providing are valuable, the overall path he is leading is not a good one.

I might end up looking it up.

Well you don't sound like a burden.

This person gets me.

Same

me too, but I'm just going tell myself "I have to revise, I'll sort my shit out when exams are over" even though I spend maybe 1 hour a day revising. And then when exams are over I'll find some other excuse lol.

Randomly shifting through comments. I hope you aren’t just floating through the motions. Get up and get you something amigo/amiga. You are important, and the things you get for yourself are more important than anything in your life. And because you are important, there are things you deserve to collect. Go get ‘em.

thanks internet person

Write it in huge letters in your room

FWIW, I'm about to turn 26, and the last 8 years since high school have been one big, expensive, existential crisis.

I entered undergrad as a declared aerospace engineering major. Midway through freshman year, I started switching into history. I dropped out of school to join Occupy and later ride my bicycle around Europe. Came back to school to pursue an English degree. Switched into a philosophy degree. Studied robot ethics. Studied animal rights and wrote my senior thesis about it.

I graduated wanting to be a comic book writer. But, during a gap year, I got heavily involved in more social justice activism. Applied for and got an AmeriCorps position on the other side of the country. After a year of that, I applied to a nearby MBA program that specializes in nonprofit management.

And only now do I somewhat have an idea of what I want to do with my life. But even that is pretty vague.

Totally worth it. I'm ready to live a meaningful, purposeful life after years of exploring who I am.

I coasted through a lot of my 20s but I don't really regret it. I recently read an absolutely life-changing book where the author describes a period of his life quite similar to mine that he called "drifting". And framed it in a healthy way. Drifting, to him, meant something was missing in his life but he didn't know what so he just kinda mosied around till he figured it out. And that's perfectly okay. Be open to a little lateral movement. Most people think if you aren't moving TOWARDS something you aren't moving, but you're still doing something valuable when you move sideways, you just don't know what it is yet. If you did you wouldn't be moving sideways anymore. :)

If you want something to change, something has to change.

im aware it’s just feels like im running in place

That's what I needed to hear 12 years ago.

well you heard it today so go develop time travel (obviously let me know) then tell yourself 12years ago that one day you’ll stumble across some great advice and develop time travel

Don't forget it tomorrow

Yeah just got a sinking feeling in my stomach

pick something, and do it!

you'll learn along the way.

if you learn enough to figure out you picked wrong, then you get to pick something else!

Okay, been three hours? What have you done in the last three hours?

talked to a family friend ate hot sausages tried to go to sleep

that's what I needed to hear 15 years ago today.

Serious question, what the fuck do I do?

Im 20, 3 semesters in on college. I had a loan error last semester, now I need a private loan. I dont know what to major in. I hate math, but my parents pushed me into an engineering school. Writing, politics, communications, basically anything im good at, does not put food on the table.

Ive got less than 1k in the bank, and most of that is going towards a "new" (inspected) car, so its not like I have much to work with. No marketable skills, a big chunk of debt, no car, and no useful hobbies. I really don't have any idea what kind of resources are available to help me find a path that I would be proud to be on. I don't even know if I should go back to school aimlessly or just drop out and start my long struggle with debt ill never put a dent in.

edit: Thanks everyone for the replies! I'm sorry I can't get back to everyone, on my way home from work I went from having 2 unread to over 150. I really appreciate the support, and am actually much more motivated and uplifted now that I see I'm not already buried under shit-mountain. I'm going to accept my loan for last semester, talk to my university about switching to a less STEM based school (my Uni has several satellite campuses), and tomorrow I'm applying to the local gun shop, perhaps as a gun-smith apprentice. I'll hopefully work with them over the summer while exploring my university options, and if I like gun-smithing as much as I expect, I may end up applying to a gun-smithing school a couple of hours away from my home town.

Again, I really really am glad to have been able to vent and get so much insight. Amusingly enough, it seems split 50/50 between "Tough it out, every job sucks. Find one that pays enough to make it suck less" and "Money doesn't mean squat, do what you enjoy and if you excel at it, you will eventually find the money". All of the different perspectives help a lot

Hey man, all of those things DO put food on the table in the right area. I majored in political science and live in Washington DC writing and researching for a small non-profit, I make about 50k which is enough for me to live comfortably in my late-20's.

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I majored in English and then transferred to business because I was worried about not finding work. Honestly, I haven't worked a single job that I couldn't have gotten with an English degree. I even worked awhile as a financial advisor people who had history degrees and Spanish degrees lol. Make connections, show enthusiasm and a positive attitude, be passionate about what you're doing and people will recognize and will want that. Remember, as much as you need a job, they need a person. Most learning is done on the job, and your college degree isn't the only determinant of who you are.

Written communication is so fucking important and I don’t understand why people act like English degrees are a waste when “strong written communication” is one of the top desired skills of almost every corporate job application.

Yes! I can't stress this enough. One of the best things you can do almost regardless of field is to learn how to communicate an idea through writing. I'm in the engineering relm and so many young folks in the field (and many older folks as well) are just terrible at writing.

Communication and English are really valuable skills to have majored in! I'm currently an English major and get shit for it all. The. Time. Especially when I tell people I want to teach high school. What people don't get is that 1) it's what I want to do and will be happy doing it and 2) where I live, I have to teach for two years before I can get my Master's in counseling, which is my ultimate career goal. Again making around 50K depending on where you live. You have a lot of options to work a good paying job in whatever field you like.

Can I ask what sort of job counseling is? I only know of counselors as in therapy, but I wasn't sure if that's what you meant.

Essentially, yeah, that's what that is. I want to specifically be a guidance counselor for students, so helping them deal with any academic issues, stress, depression, etc.

Ah that makes sense! Thank you for the reply!

Because people think writing is easy. And hell, writing IS easy. We do it all the time. Emails, texts, reddit posts, whatever. The vast majority of us write all the time.

To write well, succinctly and in an engaging manner, is something completely different. Especially in a world where SEO and content creation is so important for almost every business, writing and communication shouldn't be sneered at - people just assume its a "background skill" instead of an ace up your sleeve.

Strong written communication =/= needing an English degree

No one said anyone needs an English degree. If you develop the right skills and know how to market them to interviewers, the name of your degree really doesn’t matter all that much.

I know people who have gotten 6 figure offers out of college with a bachelors degree in communications. Really makes me rethink my life choices considering I worked my ass of and studied chemistry and won't be making half that for a while lol

If you want money, a chemistry grad in O&G can make more than any comms major job.

is that oil and gas? I'm imagining petroleum engineering money.

Yep oil and gas. From what I hear from my engineering friends, that’s where you go for the moneybags jobs.

The degree is like a car. You need one to get on the road. Where you go is dependent on you. If you just sit behind the wheel and do nothing the degree will get you nowhere.

As a communications student who daily questions if it's worth it: what pray tell were the jobs they applied to?

Oh man, I'd love to know as well.

Problem is people want engineer with strong communication skill and there are engineer with strong communication skill or passable enough skill.

You are competing with this people and they will win because they have a degree.

And this, here, is not an engineer with strong communication skills.

Yes. Learn skills on the job that will be useful in the future. Ideally you can find something that really interests you, get a degree and work in that field. If not then you just end up doing what you can get. Your opportunities are dependent on what you know, who you know, your experience and current situation. If you are going to just work somewhere do it where you get experience in something or somewhere where it can be more valuable in the future. Always try to learn and grow and don't work in dead end jobs.

How did you get your foot in the door to these industries? I’m super inspired as these are my current goals !

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Definitely.

It’s not who you know, or what you know, but who knows what you know.

Stay connected, network and let people know what you know so that they know what you know, you know? Honestly fantastic advice thanks 🙏 guys

Me too! I have a literature degree and work in marketing communications for a tech company. I love my day job, and it pays for me to write my poetry and fairy tales after work.

I also majored in English and work is mass e-comm composing communication plans, emails, and sending them through CRMs. It's great.

My fiancee majored in creative writing too! She pays her bills as a freelance writer.

i’m majoring in journalism with an english minor. almost finished my junior year. reading this makes me happy.

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I think he was being facetious

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People hear advertising and they automatically assume you're pushing Nestle water. My internship out of college was at an agency that did a ton of non-profit work and I spent the majority of my time on a campaign dedicated to helping/encouraging rural kids go on to additional education after HS (be it trade, college, whatever. Just find your passion and do it.) No regrets.

seems like that other commenter didn't even read your whole list.

super happy for you that you got to work on some meaningful work!

where do you work then, philantrophist?

Very true! I think ‘only STEM makes money’ is a pretty persistent misconception though :(

I graduated with a STEM major (electrical engineering) and can't get a job. Getting out of retail was a major impetus for me to go to school, but it looks like I'm going to end up back there.

I'm really sorry to hear that. What was your Major GPA, did you get internships, and were you involved on campus? I'm trying to understand your position. It's a scary prospect as I am an engineering student.

3.75 GPA.

No internships; couldn't get one, which was a bit prophetic in hindsight.

I was in IEEE and SHPE, but no leadership roles. I commuted almost an hour and a half each way to campus, which ate a lot of time for being more involved.

Good luck in the job search!

EE specializing in power systems or did you do electronics?

Power with a focus on renewables.

Hmm, if you step outside the realm of renewables there might be more options. Lots of people retiring out of manufacturing industries right around now, hopefully you will be able to find something soon. Best of luck.

Thanks for the advice. I have applied across the field: manufacturing, military contractors, power, controls, electronics, etc.

Roughly a thousand applications submitted to everything I can find east of Colorado and south of Massachusetts. 16 months and counting.

Definitely a story I hear too often :(

Of course I can’t speak to your specific circumstances, but someone who traded up their degree in their late twenties recently passed on some good advice to me. He said showing experience, maturity and commitment when job hunting can take you a long way. Looking for related experience and networking can take you a long way. He said being prepared to work hard and making employers aware of this gave him an edge over other applicants.

Really sorry to hear that it’s not working out for you at the moment :(

Sorry to hear that bro. Just wondering, did you work an internship while you were in school? Internships almost guarantee you a job right out of engineering school (at least it did for my buddies). If you haven't, there are companies that offer post graduate internships, most of which pay pretty well. Not as much as your salary position will, but probably somewhere around 20 per hour which is not bad especially while you're getting experience

No internship. I took classes my first two summers. For my third summer, I tried very hard to get one, had several interviews with a number of companies, but was ultimately not successful. In hindsight, that should've prepped me for this reality. I ended up taking an undergraduate research position at my university rather than do nothing, but that hasn't proved very helpful.

When you say post graduate internships, are you talking about rotational development programs?

I wasn't referring to rotational development. I've been out of the loop for a while so I had to do a Google search for what exactly rotational development is. It looks to be pretty similar to the post graduate internships that I was referring to. I have a friend that worked an internship after graduation for six months and was hired on after that six months was up. I will email him and ask if it was a rotational development program or something of a different title.

Electrical power engineer, went into robotics, now turned project manager

Controls is very big in my area but it seems that every company wants you to have 3-5 years of PLC programming experience for entry level positions.

And I thought I read that because so many people are going to college, particularly for STEM fields, that the job markets are becoming over-saturated?

this is probably the 100th time I've posted this stuff, so pardon me for not digging out the sources again (they came from nces and PBS) ~31% of US jobs are high skill labor jobs (what you would require a degree for), 60% of US high school students go to college, 40% of those drop out (overall, its higher in for profit, lower in private, average for public), IE 60% graduate of that 60% or 36%, if the ratio among those graduates matched that of the job market for high skill, we would still be oversaturating the market. Unfortunately, its much worse than that, you know what, I know some people are going to be butt hurt that I'm telling them they picked the wrong major, here are the actually statistics from NCES for majors.

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=37

Of the 1,895,000 bachelor's degrees conferred in 2014–15, the greatest numbers of degrees were conferred in the fields of business (364,000), health professions and related programs (216,000), social sciences and history (167,000), psychology (118,000), biological and biomedical sciences (110,000), engineering (98,000), visual and performing arts (96,000), and education (92,000)

If that represents 1,261,000 of the 1,895,000 degree, but look at the datasheet for more recent up-to-date information.

According to the latest datasheet, engineering and information science together, make about 170,000 1,920,718 total bachelors in 15-16, makes about 8.8% of all graduates being tech focused (for the most part, there are some other odd degrees there that wouldn't specifically be tech, but I'm not sure how to account for them).

125.97 million total jobs in the US, full time. 125.97 * .31 = 39.0507 million high skill labor full time jobs. ~7 million tech jobs / high skill labor jobs = 17% of high skill labor jobs. We are only able to fill about half the tech jobs based on this description (its probably higher than that though). engineering STEMs aren't overpopulating their field. social sciences, psychology and biological sciences etc are. (health professions could be fine, but its hard to tell with out seeing the high skill labor statistics in the healthcare industry, it takes up 12% of graduates but there are a lot of health care jobs)

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/life-physical-and-social-science/psychologists.htm

166,600 jobs in psychology, when the same order of magnitude of people graduated (117,440) with that degree the same year. (I thought that number was low too, but look at this http://www.apa.org/gradpsych/2011/03/cover-sunny.aspx)

That isn't even 1.% of high skill jobs, its .4 percent, and yet psychology takes 6% of all bachelors degrees. Psychology majors should be taking a step back and think, and realize there is wayyyyyy too much competition in psychology. Unless you are getting it for an unrelated field, you probably aren't going to get a psychology job.

Funnily enough education, while in the recent past was in the same boat, may actually very recently (because of the recent trend of less people going into education) be ok, and its about equal percentage of high skill job available (thought that is all teaching including post secondary) and graduate (both around 4.5%, 1.9 million jobs hiring in 2016, vs 87,000 graduating 2016)

As is "if it isn't making six figures, it isn't a job worth considering."

Nobody is saying that. It is more about career stability. Should be STEM plus trades though

I haven’t heard it here! It’s just an attitude that I’ve come across in high school and now a little in uni.

I personally think that doing something you’re good at and love is a much better career direction than just doing STEM because it’s employable/you can make a lot of money (which is certainly not true across the board!) Lots of my peers have opted for engineering, medicine or finance and I’m not sure they know why :(

STEM careers are very beneficial fields to society, and can earn good money. Plus, they come with a level of esteem and glory in pursuing them. I think due to that, it is natural that many want to try their hand at learning them.

Obviously if you really hate it, maybe pursue something else. There is plenty of career differentiation within the STEM field though so it's not like it is suited for just one personality.

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I'm sure he commutes. The rent is too damn high. Commuting is a small price to pay for happiness and a comfortable lifestyle.

Tip #1: Don't actually live in DC and 50k isn't bad

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50K isn’t really bad for someone that’s younger and trying to establish themselves in the field.

If they were late 30s... then it would be bad.

Since when is 50k bad for anyone at any age? That’s quite a bit more than the average income for all of America.

57-60k are the average incomes so it’s below average.

That’s average per household, not per individual person. The average income per person is $31,000 as of the end of 2016. So there’s nothing “low” or “below average” when you’re making 50k a year on your own.

Eh, if he’s by himself, that’s very doable.

Oh, it is. That's not enough to afford a studio apartment in a moderately desirable area at all. I made $44K working as a server at a restaurant (not even a particularly fancy one) in DC. It was enough for me to live with 3 other people in a single family house. So yeah... it's not what most people in the US would consider a dignified life. But fun in your 20's for sure. I think it's when you hit your 30's and you still have to warn your roommates that you're bringing someone over that it really sinks in how behind the rest of the country you are in terms of living standards.

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Funny you say that, I'm in software development. I see those SF salaries and think hmm, maybe. Then check the cost of living and nope out real quick. Plus, that area is due for the "big one" in terms of earthquakes in my lifetime. Definitely planning on moving to a lower COL area than SF and DC in the near future.

As for the second part of your comment... we aren't all losers, ya know. But a solid 20%, yeah, no hope lol.

I'm planning to go into software too. Honestly when looking at the CoL I'm thinking it might be worth it if I stayed a bachelor for a while because you can increase you're salary by a lot real quick. My uncle goes up and down the west coast for different gigs and he can make anywhere from 3-600k depending who it's for. If I could get my asking price to be that high, then spending a bit more on CA prices is worth it (though I'd move as soon as I could get a decent enough job somewhere sane).

I'd say that it's more like 20% that are normal. Programming just attracts a lot of antisocial people it seems. But that's a good thing if you have a small semblance of social skills because then you can run circles around them winning favor of non CS people and getting promoted or networking that way.

Realistically speaking though the number of jobs like that is very limited, and there is a lot of competition for new entrants to the field.

It's a stereotype, but the English / Politics graduate working as a barista is a very real thing.

If you're established, have a good set of contacts and a portfolio of published writings it's a lot easier to find work than some guy fresh out of college fighting the hordes of other English graduates.

Edit: Spelling

If you're establish, have a good set of contacts and a portfolio of published writings it's a lot easier to find work than some guy fresh out of college fighting the hordes of other English graduates .

This is key (really in any field of study), and really goes to OP's point. If you go out and do things and have something to show for your time, life is going to be a lot easier.

No one will recognize you as the genius you know you are if you just sit around doing nothing.

Also remember your efforts are worth something. Don't just accept "It'll look good on the resume or portfolio" as payment because you are hurting yourself and everyone else.

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Sounds about right. We pay fresh grads more than $50k in Virginia, just on the other side of the river, and I don't know how they survive. Guessing lots of roommates.

Seriously, 'writing, politics, communications' can make a shit ton of money if you go into consulting or banking or land the right public sector gig.

Would you be able to speak more to this? I'm in a similar situation to OP and would love to know how to capitalize on my skills. I've never really had the support of my parents or adult figures so I don't have anyone I can really turn to for advice on this subject--anything you can say to expand on this would be really beneficial :(

The person you replied to probably hasn't worked in banking or consulting or they went to an Ivy.

It is insanely difficult to get in to these fields if you didn't go to Harvard/Yale/Princeton/etc. That being said, if you did go to a school like Stanford, Goldman Sachs will hire you even if you majored in gender studies. It's all about maintaining the elitism.

source: work in investment banking

Aww. Crud. I went to a small liberal arts college for History. I did well, but my area of focus that I was good in (bubonic plague and lgtb medieval history) doesn't exactly have a non-competitive job market.

If you went to one of the little Ivies you have a chance. Outside of that, most people manage to break in by networking. I went to a big state school and I just worked my alumni network cold-calling and then asking for advice. If they liked me, I'd ask to meet for coffee, then I ask for more references, etc. Took me 18 months of doing this.

Another option is an MBA at a top school. If you got your MBA at Columbia or NYU or something you could get in as a first year associate.

This is some really helpful stuff. I appreciate you writing this!

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but are you saying there's a competitive job market for people with historical, not scientific, knowledge of the bubonic plague and what it was like for homosexuals in medieval times? Either you meant something else or I REALLY want to hear this story.

Yes. I am saying exactly that.

My undergraduate advisor was an expert on medieval village reconstitution theory, bubonic plague, pilgrim rites and passages, and Italian LGBT Renaissance History. She went on sabbatical for a single semester: we had over 5 qualified applicants who matched those specifications, with thirty-seven more who matched the general need for an adjunct, single-year professor of medieval history role with no tenure. That is a putrid level of competition for a job that will not even make you minimum wage for your doctorate degree.

That's not even getting into the competition for tenure track positions, which are disappearing because it's cheaper for universities to just hire adjuncts. Academia has been heading to the shambles for years now.

Holy shit. Thanks for the explanation. Who would have guessed?

I'm not advocating actually doing this, but now that you know who the competition is, you could just find someone with the scientific knowledge (and access to) the bubonic plague and....um....thin the herd, so to speak.

The person who told you only ivies have a chance likely means at the largest firms in NYC. You can get a decent job at a small bank or marketing firm somewhere no problem.

Also, talk to your university. They have career services, even for grads.

Best advice I have for those who are taking business classes is to research your professors and take the classes taught by the people who you want to network with. At my school, all the business professors are just successful businessmen who feel like teaching some lectures on the side, and they have shit tons of high profile corporate friends. If you ace their classes, they’ll introduce you to those people because they love getting good feedback on how great their students are in the workplace.

You don’t even need to have a relationship with your professors (although it definitely helps). But if you are consistently getting As on your assignments, your profs will know who you are and be comfortable introducing you to contacts if you ask them for networking help. Just don’t expect much help if you’re getting a C+ in their class.

I'm referring specifically to investment banking. Can't speak to marketing firms.

Well I can only say from my anecdotal experience but where I'm from was a decent sized city (> 1mm people) and there was only a single investment bank. A dozen or so employees. And their analysts all went to schools like Kellogg or McCombs or Wharton.

I personally applied to maybe 1000 firms. Not exaggerating. And the only way I got in to my current gig was a retired banker took pity on me and called in a favor and I got an interview. Yes I work in NYC but I applied at places in Iowa. My coworkers all went to target schools - it's a 40 person shop.

Right, but there are thousands of banks that aren't investment banks.

There's a huge difference between being a teller or a commercial loan officer at your local Chase Bank branch and working in the industrials sector at JPMorgan Chase & Co.

It's very easy to get in to commercial (retail) banking - you don't even need a college degree. I apologize for the confusion here but yes I agree with your earlier comment - you can get a job that pays higher than minimum wage at any old bank without any sort of formal training.

I will reiterate my earlier point, however, that it is very very difficult to get a job at an investment bank - even little tiny 5 person shops in Nebraska.

Okay that’s all true but it’s also true that strong analytical writing is a very important skill for IB and consulting. Sure, you need to be at a college that they recruit from, but you also don’t need to be looking at JP Morgan or McKinsey in order to get a well-paying job at a respectable company, especially if you want a social life in your 20s.

There's a lot of truth to this. Yeah, you make $125k at 23 years old but you work 90 hours or more a week. It's insane.

Honestly, financial modeling isn't even that hard. That's why Goldman hires art majors - they believe that if you're good enough to get in to Harvard then they can teach you banking.

I'm speaking less from personal experience(in the final semester of my masters degree abroad ATM), but from the experiences of my brother, who studied econ & politics, as well as the experiences of my fellow undergrad alums & the int'l students at my current school who've already gathered work experience. None of these people went to an ivy league. What the successful ones do all have in common is: -they speak at least one (useful) foreign language -they all know how to market their skillset (for example, political/history degrees focus a lot on analysis & research design, which is a lot of what is required for consulting jobs) -they take opportunities to network

The final element is also just plain luck. To illustrate: my brother went directly from undergrad at our local state university to work at the local JP Morgan branch, then moved up to NYC to work for Deutsche Bank, where he got promoted several times in a few years. He then decided to get a masters degree in a more specialized field of economics at a small but prestigious university, after which it took him nearly a year to find a new job, in spite of being more qualified than ever. When he did, it was a (less well known, but still globally operating) tech consulting company.

In the end there's no guaranteed way of being successful, but what I've learned over both my own experiences and those of people I know is that you can't control how lucky you are, but you can control how many opportunities you have to be lucky. So find ways to network with people, and do things that show skills & stand out in your resume/CV, even if they're not conventional. Write an article & try to get it published so you can show off writing & analysis skills. Since in another comment you say you would like to teach LGBT medieval history, find a way to do that outside of conventional institutions. Plenty of places like Khan Academy are starting to focus more on education via the internet or other technologies, so try building a skillset that would appeal to them-- make a website or blog or YouTube series where you teach about this topic. Not everything will have an immediate financial payoff, but being able to market these 'personal' projects as investment into yourself and your own skills can do a lot in setting you apart from others when applying.

*Edit: forgot to mention: If you have to work a shittier job for a while to make something better happen down the road, do it! Nobody has a 'perfect' career of only jobs they love, and doing something for a period of time always looks better than sitting around doing nothing on your CV.

you can't control how lucky you are, but you can control how many opportunities you have to be lucky

Moving forward I'm going to adopt this as a personal mantra/affirmation. This is excellent advice to live by.

What are you hoping to do? I make my living working in politics. Pay isn't great and jumping from position to position is tough, but obviously I'm not in it for money and job security. I'm fortunate enough to not have any debt so I can take this sort of financial risk but if you don't have that luxury then well paying, stable jobs in politics are hard to come by. However if you can play the game well, you'll have no problem staying employed

I'm at a weird place in my life where I have lots of things I would love to try my hand at, but nothing I can say definitively is my calling. I would love to try out:

  • Editing (literature; magazines)
  • Copyediting
  • Being a therapist
  • marketing / content editing

Essentially, I would love to be in a position where I could (1) help people (2) by disseminating, presenting, or articulating information.

My pipe dream would be being a professor of LGBT Medieval History... But that's a dream for a different era of academia. :T Either that or creating a family learning center in an impoverished neighborhood that could teach life skills to parents as well as children while providing them with dormitories that enable them to learn the skills they need to advance to higher socioeconomic brackets.

Look into technical writing positions, or postings for an instructional design specialist. They're basically people that design training courses out of other people's expertise. Your skills include being able to visualize a course, break it up into modules with assessments, and write clearly and concisely and be able to copyedit well. Attention to detail is also important. All major companies train their own staff, so there is high demand for people that specialize in this.

Hey, that last thing you said. My SO and I have discussed a similar idea but keep getting stuck on "where the fuck do you even start." I'm in a vaguely similar life position as you and trying to find something that a) you enjoy and are interested in, b) will give you some semblance of fulfillment, c) won't leave you destitute and working at walmart at 75 and d) is even a real job in todays society is fucking exhausting and discouraging. So I don't have any advice or anything but I just wanted to say that you sound like good people and I believe in you (for whatever you decide to go for).

Also if you have any literature on LGBT Medieval History that you care to share I would love to read it- I'm taking the summer off of school and kind of need a break from science related shit, and that sounds god damn fascinating.

As someone mostly working in the social impact sector, I recommend looking into communications, digital campaigns, content, editorial positions at LGBTQ- focused organizations if you want to bridge your interests.

I'm thinking Arcus Foundation, LGBT Task Force, Human Rights Campaign, Ford Foundation, GLAAD, GLSEN, Trans Law Center, The Williams Institute, etc. It's a bit harder since sure, they aren't everywhere.

Play up any work or writing you've done to make LGBTQ issues more accessible to more people. Sure, it's great that you have in-depth knowledge but many audiences aren't well-versed in theory. How have you helped make that information easy to understand? Have you ever used it to create content like inviting people to attend a lecture or promoting university events? Organizing any events?

edit// Also wanted to add in case it's your thing: It is a big election year. If you want to do content or social media, communications/digital strategy, you could look into joining campaigns for candidates who align with your issue areas. You may have to move, and there's no guarantee regarding pay, but it is good experience especially for someone just out of undergrad.

Arcus Foundation, LGBT Task Force, Human Rights Campaign, Ford Foundation, GLAAD, GLSEN, Trans Law Center, The Williams Institute, etc

This is SUPER helpful. I very much appreciate getting a hard list. I've volunteered at the local LGBT center in my own hometown so I should be able to transition easily to other, larger centers. Hopefully.

How have you helped make that information easy to understand? Have you ever used it to create content like inviting people to attend a lecture or promoting university events? Organizing any events?

I wrote a treatise on Renaissance Sodomy legislation, but not a lot of people are interested in that. Do you think it's something that, if I broke it down, maybe people would find appealing? There's a lot of people getting burned at the stake or executed.

Haha, well, I think that depends on if you're presenting it at a conference or not, or if you've already shared it to teach others more about LGBTQ stuff.

If you're looking to work at those LGBTQ orgs, I would stress more your expertise in that area and your ability to translate it into clear, everyday language that people understand, if that's something you have experience with. From your more academic background, it might be better to highlight that research experience. People will be interested in how you can take that research and spin it into either usable content or translate it into messaging.

Academic writing is very different from doing communications, depending on the spheres you run in. There's more emphasis on, again, using that accessible language and eliminating jargon so that more audiences can understand the issues. But there's also that element of being able to identify whether your audience is more entrenched in these issues, and feeling comfortable using some of that terminology to establish your organization's cred, etc.

Feel free to let me know if you have any further questions!

That's what I want to do I reckon, how hard is it to get a job in policy like that? I'm in the middle of a masters in pols so looking to get into the field at some point

You're in the middle of a master's and haven't looked at an end goal yet?

Pretty much, not ideal I know

What University did you go to if you don't mind me asking?

I'm a current college student in DC majoring in international relations and graduating soon - this whole process is incredibly stressful for me, so would you mind talking a little bit about how you got where you are? I've been wading through internship rejections this week so it all feels a bit hopeless at the moment.

I couldn’t agree more. It matters a lot more what you do during your summers and your positions on campus clubs which gain you experience. Always seek and take leadership positions when you can, it’s a goldmine of a buzzword for your resume. What major you take matters far less than your ability to argue how your skills and experience make you a good candidate for the job! I’m an English lit major. I’m thinking about marketing, advertising, sales, or anything that involves conveying an idea. Plus, I’ll be able to argue that my non-directly linked major will give their team a new perspective, opening the doors for them to have a wider variety of tools to tackle problems and projects. I’m going to stop here as I’ve already gotten carried away, but I hope I got my point across.

How did you find out about that kind of gig instead of say... being a teacher. asking for a friend

You live "comfortably" in Washington DC on 50k? How many roommates do you have?

I live outside the city in Silver spring and work in Chevy Chase less than a mile from DC city limits. I have one roommate, pay about $1500 combined for a 2 bedroom 2 bath place.

Yeah I figured. Silver Spring is not DC, and having a roommate makes a big difference.

If you don't mind answering a few questions- how long did it take you to find a job and what pushed you in that direction? How hard was it to get a job like that? I'm in the middle of my political and economics degree so I'm curious.

Ooo any job advice? I did polisci in college but couldn’t find a job in my field so I’m teaching rn. Am still searching for a full time position

I majored in political science and now work as a banker. I make roughly$40,000/yr and I can only go up from here. Literally no bank experience. Those skills do put money on the table. You never know when an opportunity will come for you.

Piggybacking off of this, I did my BA in Poli Sci too. I did get a MA in something similar so that gets you in a higher bracket, but lived in DC for 11 years and went from around 50k just graduating to almost 120k now, and I'm in a smaller city as of a few years ago. It absolutely puts food on the table. You just have to want it and keep working at it. You'll get lots of telecoms but the ones that say yes, that will make it for you. And in this field, do not resist people trying to help via networking cause you're too proud. I tried that my first year and am kicking myself.

I know someone in his early 20’s who is following a very similar path and it was rough at first but things have come together well. Poly Sci and DC. He is my son’s good friend and I’m very proud of him. Peeps drink way too much on The Hill though it seems.

awesome, what did you do after college to set that up? I’m currently graduating with a political science degree in Virginia and I’ve had internships throughout my time here and would not mind moving to DC for a paid position doing research/writing.

As someone going to graduate school for politics, I hope I find a job like yours!

Let’s see... writing, politics, and communications....

Technical writing, human resources, marketing, and paralegal. Are you gonna make 6 figures right out of college? No. But it puts food on the table.

I'd estimate that 30% of engineers don't do higher than high school math, and don't have to do even that more than a couple times per year. There are zillions of engineering jobs for someone who is good at writing and communication but isn't great at math.

The trick is you have to be good enough at math to get the degree in the first place.

Well, yeah.

Writing, politics, communications, ... does not put food on the table

In what world are there not communications jobs???

Communications as in journalism and writing, not telecomm. My intro to journalism class thinned out by about 75% once they told us to look into the job, pay, and future of the industry. Sharply declining demand making less than I would hanging telephone wires. No thanks

Communications as in journalism and writing

Looking at the number of social media managers, Youtube celebrities and instagram influencers, you can get a job if you're good at that.

Though I'm not sure if you that count that more as marketing than communication.

Oh, and I'm sure the White House is soon gonna look for a Communications Director.

Well to be fair it would put food on the table

I think the biggest mistakes that our culture pushes are,

1) A job provides your identity

or

2) You will have a job that you enjoy so much or are so good at that would do it for free anyway.

 

If you have that, great, whatever, its not realistic for most people, and I think is inappropriate for what a job is to most people - a means to live. You work as part of you life, it doesn't have to be your whole life. The other common despair when I was 20 was assuming shit was going to go smoothly. It doesn't, and that's ok. Leapfrog a bit, you never know what you could get into.

 

A quick example, I studied bio (haha what a choice) and had some trouble finding work after school. Eventually decided to take a class to learn how to draw blood. Drawing blood needs no education, but whatever, it paid as well as retail, was relatively inexpensive to learn, and got me in a healthcare setting. Fast forward 2 years, I ended up talking with folks working in research studies, boom, new choice I hadn't even known existed in college.

 

Someone I know wanted to do audio and video production, same kind of thing, had a terrible time, ended up working the equivalent of a movie theatre tech for the local science center. Ooof. But you know what, you are gaining experience, learning things, and now he has an opportunity to help shoot commercials for a small company because of the experience he has.

 

You don't have to be making 60k right out of college, it's okay, but for the love of all that is holy, don't stop. Take an opportunity that you can, and keep looking. That's the difference between folks that keep going and folks that get stuck in one place IMO, one group kept pounding.

 

For advice worth as much as it costs, pick something that you think might be alright. Anything, doesn't matter what the position is, then research it relentlessly. Find out what the qualifications are, and make you education MATCH those qualifications. Find people in those positions and talk to them. Ask them how they did it, or what the requirements are. Get on forums, or look into professional societies. You are in a unique position to mold what your resume has on it, as opposed to someone who has already graduated. This will give you a leg up, and don't be afraid to take a position you might otherwise look down on because it seems beneath you - it's not, take that assistant position and be the best lumpin' assistant HUMANLY POSSIBLE, and you can always keep looking while you are in said position.

 

Also, try not to worry too much. One day we will all be taking a dirt nap, so try to enjoy the ride.

 

EDIT: DO NOT GO TO SCHOOL AIMLESSLY, make it worthwhile. If you don't know exactly what you want, that's ok, but consider why you are there. You will be paying a lot of money, you might as well make it a good investment. If you are not feeling it, there's tons of options out there - plenty of well paying jobs that don't require higher education, but may require being an apprentice, joining the military, learning a certain skill, etc etc etc. If you value the education, choose a position, the earlier you choose the better, and just get there. You can do it!

As someone who wants to take Biology as a B.A minor, can I ask why Bio is bad?

Without a graduate degree it can be pretty useless, its not much more useful than a degree on English or something along those lines. Same with most of the S and M in STEM. With just a BA, and presumably no extraordinary experience, you probably aren't going to find well paying work that involves biology. And also the big hubs where you are more likely to find work in biology are pretty high cost of living, like Seattle or Boston. If you don't want to go to grad school but still want to work in biology, just a BA is probably not gonna cut it. Volunteer, look for internships, try and get your name on a published study. And even if you do go to grad school, it still pays shit considering all the education you went through, and if you go the academia route its very competitive. Like you'll be competing with a hundred other people for each job.

Not that guy but a lot of the time a general biology qualification has limited value outside of teaching Biology.

Someone with a physics degree can apply for work in various engineering fields.

A chemistry degree opens up opportunities in manufacturing and chemical engineering fields.

Engineering, math and so on are always in high demand

A biology degree just doesn't open up as many doors. People tend to move on to a completely unrelated field - which is a bit of a waste of their degree, or go on to further specialisation, study and research in biology - which can add more debt for extra qualifications, and the research funding cycle for Ph.Ds is very cutthroat and competitive.

There are wonderful and exciting opportunities in fields like gene expression and molecular biology for Ph.Ds in those fields, but there's a very small number of people who are skilled and qualified enough to take those opportunities.

I was a Bio major. After getting my BA, I was so fucking done with school that the thought of going to grad school made me physically ill. Unfortunately, graduate degrees get preference for pretty much all bio jobs. I worked as a vet tech for 15 years, couldn’t even get a call back for lab tech jobs, and all of the vet lab jobs only hire on for the overnight shift and then hire internally for day shift. After 15 years in veterinary medicine, I was grossing $38k per year. Pre-tax, no benefits.

So last year I moved on to a data entry position at a securities brokerage company. Starting salary was $40k with 10 hours of PTO a month and a 401k. Got a promotion 8 months later and currently make $52k. I regret majoring in biology.

Most of my college friends were also biology majors. One worked in a lab for awhile, hated it, and moved on to teaching high school. In fact, a lot of my college friends ended up teaching middle or high school. After a couple years of teaching, she asked me for a recommendation for a position at my current company.

My best friend from college ended up getting her Phd a couple years ago and has a research position at a university. She lives in a 1 bedroom apartment with her husband and nearly 1 year old daughter, and had no paid maternity leave. She’s on the committee trying to get the university to offer paid leave for faculty. She makes about as much as I do now, and will probably never pay off all that debt. She spends a lot of her time mowing the property the university uses for her research. She went into labor in that field, too.

Thank you for the advice.

I am a Psy major and am leading toward either Neuropsyc or Instatutioal Psyc, was looking at Bio due to Neurology, but anyhow.

People around here seem to have a pretty limited scope of what kinds of jobs are out there. It may be tough to find a job doing bio research specifically, but if you’re willing to take those skills and apply them to an industry, you’ll have an easy time getting a good job.

An example: One of my best friends from college was a bio major who didn’t want to go into research or medicine. She took a couple of bioinformatics/stats classes and learned some basic statistical programming, so she played that up in her job search. Now, 2 years out of undergrad, she’s making 6-figures as a data scientist at an ad agency.

As long as you’re willing to look outside of your exact field and think creatively about how you can apply your skillset, any (even loosely) quant-oriented degree is going to help you a lot.

It's not that it's bad, it's that I was not specialized enough to get a job, which was the purpose for my education. It was on me, I did not pursue every opportunity I could have, or did not choose to specialize. It's fascinating, and the classes help with tons of different jobs, my advice is just to study for a specific job. At least, that's what I would do if I began again.

Depends what you’re into, have you considered a trade? I was in your position and I dropped out for a year and then realised a trade was right for me, I’m getting paid to learn and enjoying it a lot more than being a broke university student. I mean, I’m still broke but I have weekends off hahaha

I got a bachelor’s degree then went to trade school. I did that backwards. I should’ve gone to trade school first to fund the bachelor’s degree but no one told me in 2006, there’d be zero jobs for recent college grads unless you’re in engineering/tech. “Biology is a great degree” they said. “So many jobs!” There was an asterisk on that. I didn’t read the fine print. Biotechnology*

Also, Must Have PhD*

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Tried. They gave preference to graduate students or undergrad students from the university doing work/study credit. I was in Atlanta at the time where colleges were abundant and lived next door to GaTech and had gone to Ga State, which is a pretty big research university. Even a lab job was extremely competitive.

Maybe I’ll try again sometime, but I have a lot of student loans to pay off and I’m happy with what I’m doing.

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It’s one of those great experiences, though, that give you a leg up when applying for a PhD. No, I probably didn’t. I didn’t know what I wanted, tbh. My 20’s were pretty shitty. But full of great life stories. /s

I dunno, that's still an awful lot of money to pay for a job that probably pays less than what you could get out of a trade school. Except you'd have no debt from trade school.

There's plenty of money to be made with soft skills. In fact, in many companies, the most valuable skill is managing other people, which basically requires the things you described (politics, communication). The advantage of hard skills like engineering is, theoretically, that there's an expected demand. But if you hate doing it, you're not going to stick with it for long.

Roughly in the same boat but I'm in my mid-to-late 20s, still in community college after going for the past 8 years, on and off again due to unexpected life changes.

You just keep calm and carry on and try not to compare yourself to others - everyone has a different story and background.

Find out what subjects interest you. Even more important, find out which subjects bore you or ones that you loathe.

Time is going to keep going by, so you might as well do something in the mean time that helps attain the goal of a future career or for better money prospects in the future.

Do what you like. If you really have something that you both enjoy and can do as a job, fucking do it.

What if I don't like anything? That's the issue here. If I knew what I liked I'd go out and pursue it, but I don't. So I'm lost.

I mean, do you literally not like anything? What do you do with your free time? If you really can't think of a single thing you enjoy doing, then you need to go out and expose yourself to as many different things as possible. Join a wide range of subreddits about specific topics and see if the conversations had make you curious. Curiosity is the cornerstone to learning anything. But even if you just like sitting around and playing video games, there are jobs for that. My roommate used to QA games for Sony. He said the job sucked, but he got to play new games and stuff all the time. So go get some exposure to topics you know absolutely nothing about and see what sticks.

Yeah, I pretty much don't like anything. I spend my free time hanging out with my friends or watching TV/movies, I don't enjoy playing video games. I don't even enjoy leaving my house tbh.

"then you need to go out and expose yourself to as many different things as possible."

But the thing is, everything sounds shit to me. I'm not interested in anything so I don't even know what to try. I don't enjoy academic or physical hobbies (lol) so that really doesn't leave much else. I guess I do like creative things, but I fucking suck and it just makes me sad because I suck so much. I'm not lucky enough to have talent, and you need to be talented for people to be willing to pay money for your work... unfortunately.

Anyways, I really appreciate your advice. Sorry I'm so negative right now, this thread has really got me down lol.

Negatively happens, no need to apologize for it. But, one thing that might help is teaching yourself to change that mindset. I used to hate everything myself, but once I found myself isolated I figured out I had to change something about me. I learned to start looking for positives to literally every scenario. It started out being a serious task, and thinking of one positive thing about any given topic was next to impossible. But I forced myself to not move on until I thought of one good thing to say. Now, I can find something positive in literally any situation. Once you break your habits of going negative by default, you will start to see interests grow and it becomes easier to get involved in stuff. I'd start there, you take it day by day. Keep pushing yourself until it becomes second nature. Once you build that habit, its easier to get into anything because you can convince yourself why you should do it.

Y'know, that's really great advice. Thanks for taking your time to explain it to me. I know being negative's no good for me, but it's hard to break the habit. I'll seriously try and think more positive - starting NOW!

Thanks heaps :) You sound like a lovely person.

Best of luck to you. It's hard to change that mindset, so try not to get too discouraged. At first it will be very hard. But once you do it a bit it gets easier. One book that helped me was called "Thinkertoys". I started reading it because I didn't feel like I was creative at all. One of the first challenges in the book is to "invent" something new everyday. At first you literally can't think of a single thing, but I just kept trying. It took me about 2 months of work before I could easily think up something "new". I applied this logic to my negativity (I was super negative on myself, no wonder I wasn't able to be creative). It really does work if you keep at it.

So, I'll stop blogging and just wish you best of luck :) I'm confident you can do it!

The first thing you need to do is stop seeing talent as something you only have if you're born with it, see it as a skill that can be acquired.

Yeahh true... but you have to spend hundreds of hours to practice these skills to be half as good as someone who was born with talent.

You're right though. I guess I'm just lazy/unmotivated.

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Thanks for your advice :) you didn't come across aggressive! I need a kick in the ass, and I logically know everything you're saying is 100% true, it's really hard to swallow though.

If you don't compare yourself to others, how do you know if anything you do is good? Eg. I might paint a picture and think it's fkn awesome - but then see another persons painting and realize my painting is actually pretty shit in the grand scheme of things. If I didn't compare myself to others I'd have no "baseline" of what's "good", if that makes sense?

You're very right though, comparing myself to others just makes me feel like shit, it doesn't help anything. Especially when I'm comparing myself to people who do this kind of thing for a living. They've obviously practiced a lot and put in a shittonne of time and energy. I just wish I was as good as them, y'know? It drives me crazy.

" I have learned is that motivation alone will never get you far because it's like a limited resource you run out of after a while, you need discipline, make a routine and stick to it, spend x amount of time everyday learning/practicing, make following the routine your goal"

Have you found that doing this takes the enjoyment out of the activity? It sounds like a lot of hard work and discipline - they're not exactly "fun" things for me lol.

Sorry for the long reply! Thanks heaps for taking time out to explain things to me, you sounds like you've got your shit together! Well done. I'm going to try and be more optimistic, it's harder than it sounds.

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Thanks so much for all your wise words! You've been really helpful at getting me out of my funky mood. I'll definitely check out Stages of Competence. You're an awesome person :) Thanks for your time. I wish you all the best mastering your skill!

How are you looking for things to do?

... I'm not.

Surely, if you're worried about not having direction, then exploring and finding said direction would be your de facto, err, direction?

You'd think so, but i have no direction lol. So it's hard to think of anything to "explore". I kinda explained it before:

"But the thing is, everything sounds shit to me. I'm not interested in anything so I don't even know what to try. I don't enjoy academic or physical hobbies (lol) so that really doesn't leave much else. I guess I do like creative things, but I fucking suck and it just makes me sad because I suck so much. I'm not lucky enough to have talent, and you need to be talented for people to be willing to pay money for your work... unfortunately. "

So yeah, nothing really sounds "interesting" to me. What kinds of hobbies (that could hopefully turn into a job, maybe) do you do? Any suggestions?

My hobbies and interests really extend to far too many things. Also, I do personally object with using them to find a life direction. Unless you really want me to go into them, I'll save you the droll.

I could, however, put things in perspectives similar to mine so that you may feel some imperative to do certain things. This mostly concerns death and morality: Topics most have been more than willing to ignore and subsequently move on with their day, their status quo. I don't want to spend time on these topics if you're not interested, unless you indicate otherwise.

"This mostly concerns death and morality: Topics most have been more than willing to ignore and subsequently move on with their day, their status quo. I don't want to spend time on these topics if you're not interested, unless you indicate otherwise."

I love morbid things, if that's what you're talking about.

The question still remains on whether you'll actually be emotionally receptive, which is a crapshoot. In any case, I'll give my preachiness a stab some time later, when I do have time.

Okay, cool. I'm not 100% sure what you're talking about, but if you want to preach to me later then you're more than welcome lol.

Thanks anyways! :)

My mom told me to major in what I was interested in, and you'll find the money to live. It's a waste at the age of 18-21 to think you know who you're gonna be the rest of your life and I think it's ridiculous we're expected to pick a major and run with it at that age as if it's all we can ever be/do. Just go to school to learn, expose yourself to new ideas, and give yourself time to figure out who you are. NO degree is a guarantee, full stop.

That's fucking terrible advice... Most people will wind up with $80k in student loans and a job paying $40k with that advice. If you just want to learn, travel and don't waste money on school. There is never a good reason for college other than gaining practical knowledge that you could use for a job that requires a degree.

Sure, it's dumb to expect to have the same job forever... But you gotta put in 5 years at SOMETHING before switching gears, otherwise no employer will consider you reliable.

First of all, I don't think people should go that in debt period. If you don't know what you want to do, and pick something at random, you're still in debt and not going to have that job later. So either a) have the money to go to school, b) choose a trade or two year program first and pay as you go and then choose continuing education later or c) don't go to school until you know what you want to do with that education.

Bottom line, college is valuable in all ways. But don't go into crippling debt for it.

This is the worst thing about the American college system, people can't take time to figure out what they'd really like to study because it is so expensive and there's so much pressure to get into the right thing straight away. :/

Yeah it's best these days to take a year off if you don't know what to do. Too many kids have so little freedom as teenagers, then are suddenly expected to make the right decisions instantly when in college. They need practice fucking up and recovering before they can be trusted with something that big.

Most people will wind up with $80k in student loans and a job paying $40k with that advice.

What's wrong with that if they're enjoying and content with it?

There is never a good reason for college other than gaining practical knowledge that you could use for a job that requires a degree.

Universities aren't a trade school.

What's wrong with it? Poverty for one.

There's more to life than just money.

Well without money you can't have a life.

Ignore your mom's advice if you want to live a happy life. This is coming from someone who saw a dozen friends wind up broken and ashamed because they listened to people like your mom.

Cultivate a skill that is in high demand but short supply and you will always be happy. Anything else is no better than playing the lottery.

I never said my mother advised to do it?

I'm saying people don't need to work in a high demand well paying field to be content and happy. Because money isn't everything.

The way you're angrily pushing your views suggests to me your self consious about your life choices yourself.

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What was your first field?

Not sure what state you're in, but at least finish your basic classes in a community college. For instance, in texas there is a certain number of classes you can get in a community college, that all of the state colleges are required to transfer over. While you are taking your basic classes, you can talk to different people/look up what you can do with certain degrees, and see what sounds interesting to you. I had no idea what I wanted to do before I started college, but I figured I might as well get my basics done while I'm figuring it out. I narrowed my choices down to engineering, IT, and business. I cant stand math, and there are 3x more math classes in engineering, than IT or business, so I decided to learn more about both. I ended up taking all the classes that I could, that would go towards both business and IT, before I had to choose one. Eventually I found out that there was a degree which involved both business and IT, so I decided to do that. Dont get me wrong though, it wasn't as easy of a choice as I make it sound. I went back and forth on every degree even after I decided between IT/business. I think what helped me decided was looking what sounded the best, by also had the best job prospects/money for a bachelors degree. Also I'll say this, I started a little later than many of my friends going to college (22), which I regret not starting soon. The more you wait though, I promise you will regret it even more...

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Absolutely not... and I did end up finding a major that caters to both. Theres a degree called Management of Information Systems (MIS), which essentially allows you to do both or either or. While it will vary by college, my college provides electives that allow you to focus on cloud systems, programming, project management in IT, and IT infrastructure such as networking and systems. While I graduate in 2 weeks, and I haven't got a job yet, I know people that have jobs in managing programming departments, IT consulting, Data analytics, along with infrastructure. Pretty much everything involving IT.

Start by changing things you can control. Like what? Maybe with your diet. Start cooking food you can look forward to making or showing off to others. Start eating healthy. Doing that alone will give more meaning to your life even if it’s only by a little. Maybe you can move some furniture around in your house, or bedroom. Open the curtains up and let the light in, open the windows and breathe the fresh air. Go for walks in the morning and watch the sunrise. There’s small things you can do throughout the day that make you forget all those worries and let you enjoy life for what it is.

Don’t believe the hype that engineering is the only profitable path. This is coming from an engineering student who loves what I do. But I’ve seen too many people fall into the trap of being told that engineering (or STEM in general) is the only degree worth anything. A lot of people I know got bored, frustrated, or even depressed for trying to pursue a path they didn’t love. Most jobs aren’t going to be perfect or fun all the time, but you should at least do something you’re interested in! Also, as other people have already pointed out, the skills and interests you have can totally be profitable. You might just have to get creative with how you use them.

I had the same issue. I spent a lot of time at the library thumbing through “find my life’s purpose” books aimed at people who are looking for a second career. They have insight on what they did wrong the first time. They gave good advice on funding your life’s journey while you figure it out that didn’t involve staying at your miserable job. I took notes and went to wait tables/bartend at a business hotel to fund my journey. I learned a lot of skills there: talking to people, networking, multitasking, stress management, restaurant management, social engineering, psychology, culinary skills, etc. I learned about a lot of different careers. I took a year off from school. My parents flipped their shit. I went back because I realized it wouldn’t do me any good at this point not to finish because I lived in a big city and almost every career I looked at required some sort of higher education or trade certification. I moved to a small town where I had no option but to suck it up and get my degree because the work was mostly trades and healthcare. Also, it allowed me to quit partying and focus.

Bartending was not my passion, but I did find my passion while bartending. It’s amazing, however, how many white collar folks with $$$$ wanna be bartenders. I think they’ve watched Cocktail too much.

Had you told 18yo me I would’ve been bartending, I would’ve not believed you. I was shy, quiet, totally the wrong personality for it. But it actually worked in my favor because I listened and listened well.

Any of those majors that you like, are a great choice! I got into marketing technology by chance (Mass Communications/History major) and now I make $90k+ per year, have flexible hours, and love my job. I am in my late twenties.

Edit: Also, when majoring in a social studies/english/non-technical major, the further away from college you get, the less anyone cares what you majored in. They are more concerned with your last 2, 3, 5+ years of experience and how well you communicate and approach problem solving.

The work that needs doing in this world is rarely "fun". Go back to school with an aim, learn a skill or trade. Pick one. It doesn't have to be "your calling", it just has to be something you could see yourself doing. Learn how to do it, then do it.

What you do to make money doesn't need to be what makes your life fulfilling.

I've worked in HR for a long time and lost count on how many hired. For the vast majority of professional jobs out there, noone gives a shit about your major, so long as you have a degree and are educated. Your experience and how you network, and present yourself is far more important. There are tons of unemployed Actuaries out there for example (a profession that is always ranked at the very top in terms of career stability, job opportunities, quality of life). A "good" degree means nothing if that's all you got. So make sure you try and do some co-op/internships while in school. This will go a very long way. Major doesn't matter. We once hired an IT Manager who we had to beg and plead and compete with other offers for. He had a History (or maybe it was English) degree. But knew this specific industry inside out.

I don't know what colleges and universities do to kids but they tend to brainwash them into thinking that only Applied Sciences are the only safe career paths. It's just a stupid myth. Because it's actually harder to find management level people who come from science backgrounds than it is with Business, Finance or Social Sciences.

Tldr: study anything that you think you will enjoy or be good at, as long as you are supplementing that education with applied work experience (such as through internships, or taking a semester off to work in your field for minimum wage if needed).

dude, keep writing. even your basically careless writing here (no apostrophes and shit) is easy to read. you communicate well.

you can absolutely find fulfilling work, and get paid, in communications and political science.

START FUCKING WRITING EVERY DAY. do that. do that now, and in ten years you'll maybe be a good writer.

want to go the creative route? start a blog. start putting your work out there. if you get a 1000 fans, people who will donate to your patreon, buy your self-published books, or the infographic posters and slogan shirts you got made or whatever, you can make it on your own, without a publisher, without an agent, without a manager. here's the juice: http://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/

other routes: we need good journalists. we need people to stick it to the man, and report on the good shit that happens in the world. we need people to not publish for clicks, or to promote the parent company of the parent company of the giant conglomerate. we need you.

Hey, I don’t know the answer. I’m still working out what I want to do with my life. I read this article the other day and found it kinda useful. https://waitbutwhy.com/2018/04/picking-career.html Like it helped me properly start to sit down and really think about it rather than just giving it a passing thought every now and then. Good luck with whatever you do.

Hey so Im 25 and felt like this. I know it sounds dumb as fuck but don't think of your future as "what do I want to do" or "What do I find a passion in". I thought a lot of that was bullshit personally. I just had specific goals and kinda made up the steps in between.

Example? I knew I wanted to go to college and graduate. I didn't know what I want to do with my life or study but I knew that having a college degree was important to me. So I figured I would study psychology for a myriad of reasons. I liked it, it wasn't the hardest thing to learn, and I could see myself going into Human Resources in the future.

Well I did that. My junior year of college I learned a few things. Psychology was too wishy washy of a subject for me but I don't have money to change my major so I have to graduate with it. I got an internship over the summer going into my senior year in HR. HR was a nightmare but I learned I have no problem working on my computer all day or working in an office. In fact, I liked being left alone to work on a directed project on my computer if I knew what I was doing.

My senior year of college felt like such a drag for a number of reasons but to just mow them down into a simple existential crisis beyond what was happening to me in my social life, I realized I didn't like psychology, I didn't like HR, and graduating college was going to be a fucking nightmare for me.

So what did I do? I graduated, I worked a little bit longer in HR but knew it wasn't for me, and I started studying web developemnt at 22/23 years old.

I just got my first jr front end web dev job 2 weeks ago. It's been a long fucking journey but I stuck with it, studied and directed myself. I am really happy right now but I sacrificed a lot. Would I change what I did? Maybe but I really didn't know if I was going to like HR or psychology until I went all the way through with it. I always thought I was too dumb to work in tech.

Little did I know all tech people think each other are dumb so I fit right in.

Communications and writing will put a lot more money on your table than engineering. Look at project management, or management of professionals in general. Get your self in a way where you can talk to senior people about what engineers do. That's worth more than doing the work.

If you’re being honest with yourself, how are you academically? (please don’t misunderstand me; I’m not asking how smart you are, just how well you do in school—they are NOT the same thing)

If you’re top notch, consider law school. Lots of things to do with a JD that involve politics and writing and pay the bills.

If you’re not a standout but you’re solid, consider teaching. Writing teachers in particular (English, history, social sciences, etc.) change many, many kids’ lives. Even if you ultimately decide on a different concentration, think about fulfilling the requirements for a teaching certificate in your state as a backup.

If you really can’t stand school and would rather do something else with your time, consider a trade program if you like working with your hands (plumbing, mechanics, electric, even some data science is now done this way) or trying for a managerial position at a national customer-service-based employer like Whole Foods, Starbucks, or Target, or a regional grocery chain. Pick one that provides benefits (as those do) and keep your eye out for corporate positions that will allow you to write and communicate often with others.

Do not re-enroll just based on what you’ve put in to college so far. That is the sunk-cost fallacy, and it makes a poor heuristic for decision-making.

Do what you like to do. That’s it. Get a degree in a field where you can land a job in a field that’s close to something you like to do.

Or do what I did and start your own company from the ground up in a field that you love.

I couldn’t imagine ever doing something I didn’t enjoy doing as a career. Do what you need to do along the way, but have the plan for your future set in a foundation of something you have genuine interest in.

Work a trade. Plumber, electrician, framer, etc. They all put food on the table, give you highly valuable skills (no one can fix anything these days), and it gives you direction. If I could redo my early 20s I never would have pursued an arts degree.

Communications do pay. It's one of the most sought-after skills in modern professionals. Couple that with business, and you'll find yourself in sales, making a stupid amount of money.

Amen- got a Degree in Business Communication and started selling IT right out of College. 4 Years later and easily I make more than all of my Doctor and Lawyer friends.

Edit: And I LOVE it

Yeah! I’m a lawyer (and it’s what I was meant to do) and I make about the same as my friend who sells medical-facility curtains. She loves it!

Honestly I would stick with engineering, man, particularly if you have any modicum of interest and/or a strong aptitude for it. Then on the side, you could make freelance writing your useful (and maybe eventually marketable) hobby.

I (with about a solid 2.9-3.0) dropped engineering in my first go around for an arts degree in economics, and graduated with a 2.9 from a good school. It was tough to find even full-time retail work, and in my two best years, I volunteered with AmeriCorps making a total of about 17k (though this came with good education grants, 11k total). In my worst years I didn't find anything but my mother's basement.

I went back to school (I'm 27) and am pretty close to graduating with a degree in engineering from an inexpensive state school. I am also in an internship making 2x an hour more than I ever did. I'm sure your writing skills are better than my economics skills, but STEM really does pay (and hire). If I could go back I would have stuck it through, because (at least in my case) it would have been a struggle either way.

Ever consider the trades? I work as an electrician, and at 22, I can say not going to college was probably the best decision of my life. It just wasn't for me.

Not saying most people should follow in my path or anything, but there are alternatives. Check out the local electrical/plumbing/sprinkle fitter union near you. They can make damn good money! Where I live, a 3rd year apprentice makes $30/hour. With full benefits. And a pension. And doesn't pay a dime for school. 5th year apprentice? $38/hour. Journeyman? $43+/hour. Instead of paying for school, get PAID to learn a trade then make baller money once your outside of it.

Has its ups and downs but, is a great path for some.

You could always look into the Military. Im in the same boat as you and I decided to join, just for something to work towards. Im not too far into the process yet but im already more excited about it than anything else in my life.

You can become a freelance writer - blogs, articles, eCommerce product copywriting, websites, sales emails, white papers, product packaging, anything. Look into Danny Margulies freelancetowin.com and the freelancing website Upwork. If you have good communication and writing skills as a native English speaker, you can make yourself in high demand. Unlike web development or graphic design where you can get underbid by someone in a third world country willing to work for $5/hr. Only go after high value clients and don’t waste your time with clients who don’t truly value what a writer can do for them.

Source: Made the transition to full time freelance copywriter about 6 months ago. A month before that, I didn’t even know what “copywriting” was. I graduated college with a degree in French, worked as a CNC machinist for a few years, then for major commercial marijuana growers, and now I’m doing this and haven’t looked back. There was a lot of grind and hustle at first, and my rates were lower, but you use every job you get as a portfolio piece/stepping stone and eventually you will command higher prices. Gotta know how to sell yourself unabashedly though, and find a niche. Visit that website.

I did engineering because I was “supposed to” since I was good at math. I don’t regret it since it’s a very versatile degree.

That being said, if you need money, get a sales job. Seriously. I am literally the opposite of what I thought you needed to be to be good at or like sales, but it’s a very low barrier to entry (depending on industry) and it has very high earning potential that is only dependent on how hard you work. You can work part time at a cell phone store and make 50k a year or full time making 70k. Car sales can be 100k+, copiers (what I did) is 100k-150k after 3 years of working hard.

I’m not saying to do sales the rest of your life, but if you need something to do to make a lot of money then sales is a good option. r/sales is a great resource. It’s also one of the most versatile skills. Sales experience is a great skill to have especially paired with an engineering degree.

Definitely finish school if you can, or go back later.

Side point: a lot of being successful in life is swallowing your pride, putting your head down and grinding it out for a few years before you have skills that make you marketable. Lots of people do less than glamorous jobs when they’re beginning their career. My friend is wasting time bar tending because she “doesn’t know what she wants to do.” It’s a whole lot easier to move from one corporate job to another than to move from bar tending to a corporate job.

If you have any questions you can pm me

Did you ever think about something in agriculture? I see by your post history that you are into cannabis, made a honey wine recently and have a mosin nagant. All three of which you could have said about myself when I was your age.

Frankly, what I do is not really well taught in school (trust me, I went to school for agriculture and little was transferable). I learned in an apprenticeship and during the years following working for people. Some cursory knowledge in soil science was helpful from college, along with some mechanical ability and a desire to make a difference in a broken industry.

Do you actually fucks with trucks? Because that would be a helpful skill.

You could likely land a summer internship without much trouble, or pick something up part time around your class schedule on a local farm. Very few successful people in my industry have a degree in agriculture (I'm in organics primarily).

Outside of agriculture, there are a lot of opportunities with communication related work. The ability to speak and understand others is a rare skill. Don't let your skill set dissuade you from pursuing something that you would excel at. Non-profits are always looking for people with communication and writing skills. Maybe get involved with some local political campaigns, that could help you hone your organizational ability and lead to work down the road. Who knows, maybe NORML needs a summer intern to work on a legalization campaign.

You have a myriad of options, just be creative in your thinking and you will find a way to make your passions into a career.

Thanks for all of the help, and ive actually recently thought a little bit about agriculture. Ive lived on a small farm the past 10 years, nothing big, just beef cows, corn, and hay. But its definitely helped me understand the work and some really strange but practical skills.

And yes I do most of my own vehicle work, have done a tiny bit of welding and other more intense work. Definitely not enough to call it a "skill", hell im not even that familiar with it. But I know ive done some of the harder work and it doesn't scare me for sure.

Im definitely going to look into agriculture a lot, again I appreciate the help! Sometimes its really easy to look one way for so long, and forget that you can turn your head, so to speak.

Listen...teaching is always a viable option. And if you become a math teacher, you can LITERALLY teach wherever you want and you’ll never starve. The U.S. is going through a massive teacher turnover right now and for the next 5 years. It’s a wonderful profession with massive opportunity. Don’t count it out.

Shoot me a PM and let's chat, you've got more mechanical ability than most of the people I've managed on farms over my career. I've helped a couple of people find positions before, I'd love to provide any help I can.

I did not grow up on a farm, so my career has been less than typical....because of that I've become pretty good at finding opportunities.

I dropped out of college - am 25 now and trying to go back. I found this .gov site with raw data on jobs/careers, I wish I had found this earlier. (mobile link) https://www.bls.gov/ooh/mobile/occupation-finder.htm

you can sort by projected growth, projected number of new jobs, by median pay, the training or education required. i stumbled across a lot of jobs i forgot existed while browsing. it was actually fun and made me excited for my future again.

i wish i had looked at possible jobs/careers and worked backwards from there instead of thinking about something cool to study, and then realizing i dont even know if id want to work in the applicable field, which is what happened to me as i studied psychology.

anyway, good luck, keep ya head up.

I hate math, but my parents pushed me into an engineering school.

Alright this is highly biased so take it with a grain of salt but -

Drop the fuck out. Get a part or full time job that gives you some excess money every month. Work there for a year or two and just explore yourself. Discover new likes and dislikes. Learn new skills.

For me, personally, I could never ever succeed at something like school if I'm doing it for somebody else. I know because I used to go for everybody else, and I dropped out like.. I don't know, three times? Who's counting?

Anyway, I then went and worked a full time job for two years. I worked as a security guard on the night shift. Had tons of free time. Used that free time to learn a lot of things. Discovered programming while there and taught myself the basics. Then used my employed time to apply to university, put in my two weeks, aaaaaand then I ended up dropping out of there too because I had undiagnosed ADHD but then a year or two later I got that figured out and taken care of and now I'm back in school pulling 3 As and a B+ without a problem this semester.

The point is.. Don't waste your time learning a skill that you aren't ready to commit to. Best case scenario, you drop out before you have a mountain of debt and no degree. Worst case scenario you graduate with a degree you can't stand to use and a bigger mountain of debt.

This is your life. You do you.

You kind of sound like me as far as skills go and a lack of direction. Do you like helping people, serving your community, want a job that's more than making someone else money, and a chance to use your skills, albeit in sometimes unconventional manners?

See if the library is hiring. You could major in Library sciences and become a librarian if you like it.

If you like writing, politics, and communication, you basically have useful hobbies you can explode. I know it's not the greatest plan, but if you HAVE to go through with a major you don't like. At least do the best you can to do those other things you do like in order to keep your mind healthy. Use it as motivation to keep pushing through. Best wishes from a somewhat equally lost fella

It sounds like you’ve initiated the overwhelming/crisis spiral about your life situation. Trust me on this one, take a step back for a second, breathe, and then focus on one aspect at a time, even if it’s a small aspect. Don’t think you have useful hobbies? Think about what hobbies you consider useful, then just ate out of your comfort zone and try it, you may like it, you may have to try another, but either way you’ve made progress. Same thing with marketable skills.

It’s crazy overwhelming to try and tackle all of worries and struggles all at one time and only leads to panic, depression and intense anxiety as your apathy builds. Just take everything one step at a time, maybe take a career test (try sokanu it takes in so many important aspects of your life, wants and personality), talk to the career center at your school or people who have careers In fields you’re interested in, you’d be surprised how many job practical job options are out there.

Hang in there, if you ever need someone to talk to, feel free to hit me up, I’m a good listener

I majored in political science and have gone on to manage finance offices. I was like you in that I didn’t have a set direction. I didn’t know what I was going to do with it. But I had a drive to make money and got in this business straight out of college. Been doing this 12 years now and most of my success came from on the job training. The degree just got me in the door. Stay motivated. Don’t quit school if you can afford not to.

My fiancé is getting his English degree, and wanted to focus on technical writing. Everyone needs a technical writer! Look into that! Don't give up!

I did a research paper on the economic return of a bachelor’s degree. The Average range is .9 mil to 2.7 mil. The .9 mil is an English degree, the 2.7 engineering, and those are just averages. Whatever you decide to do, get a degree in something you love. You’ll be looking at at least 900,000 in economic return (This is all based off the assumption one works till they are 65). That’s a possible 42,500 extra a year at the top of the average. I know this is all theoretical but the numbers are solid. You could basically verify this with The Economist. I believed I used an article of theirs to collaborate with what I found.

If you're at a university, there might be a careers office or something. I strongly recommend you go there and have an interview. They told me what kind of things I'd be good at and would enjoy, a whole bunch of stuff I never knew existed. They told me what degrees I'd be good at.

Best of all, they gave me a big book of employers in my country and the kinds of degrees they're looking for. There were way more than I thought. Also, there's a bunch of post-grad stuff you can do with any Bachelor.

You could also learn to like maths, or study law. :P

Serious question, what the fuck do I do?

Just don't go to law school.

I know this probably doesn’t help, but I’m an engineer 3 years out of college and I never use anything beyond basic math at work. Adding and subtracting numbers to 5 decimal places and multiplying to convert units is the only math I see... you don’t have to love math to be a good engineer. Do you like figuring out how things work? Do you like science? Do you building stuff or tearing stuff apart? Are you a good problem solver? If the answer to those is no, AND you hate math, maybe engineering isn’t your path. But don’t discount any path just because you don’t like a single aspect of it. PM if you have any engineering questions.

Also, if you like technical part of engineering and are a good writer, look into technical writing. They basically translate from engineer/developer to end user - writing instruction guides and whatnot. It’s the tech without any of the math.

When I wen to college my dad said I had to major in "business." So I did. I hated "business," especially Economics and other classes. 2nd semester of my Sophomore year I said screw this, I am miserable and chasing a major I have no interest in. I liked writing so I switched to Journalism and creative writing. I wasn't sure what I was going to do with that major but I knew I enjoyed the classes.

I ended up going to law school and, 28 years later, have done quite well. I can't imagine where I would be right now if I had continued in a "business" major that I absolutely hated.

Good luck to you!!!

Hey man - perhaps a little bit of different advice from me here.

I'm in engineering too - and although I love it I definitely have friends who really aren't all that into the engineering/math part. Usually they tell me that they're more interested in the management leadership type of positions, and continue eng because of the doors and opportunities that having the degree provides. While they still need to complete their core courses, usually they find a nice fit in group projects coordinating the team, making sure the paper is coherent etc. A bunch of them graduated with b's and c's and are doing pretty well in consulting / business positions. Idk what it's like where you live, but just thought I'd throw my two cents in. Don't stay if you're miserable, but if you're just unsure, it's definitely still an option worth sticking with :)

You've never heard that political campaigns are big business? Seriously you're fine. PM if you want more direct help.

If you don't know what to do, and you're young, join the military. You'll get 4 years+ of a safety net to explore yourself and there's a lot of jobs in the military that aren't dangerous at all.

At the end of it, you'll get paid to go to college and a serious leg up in the job finding world as you'll have veterans preference.

Take an economics class. There's a lot less math in economics than people think. It's the study of rational decision making in a world of scarce resources and applies to EVERYTHING.

All jobs suck ass get one that pays well.

I'd agree with the others there, what you're interested in does make money and there's definitely demand.

I'm in a similar boat, but I waited too long to figure out what I could do and wanted to do and now it's too late. My interests were being an astronaut (too stupid to actually do and never joined the Air Force) astronomy (no demand & highly competitive), mineral photography (no demand as it's not really a job), chemistry (also too stupid to actually do), and finally science communication which I'm now considering, even though I'm pretty sure I'm too inept for that too. At least there I can just try to make a YouTube channel or something.

Not really looking for pity or anything, just hoping you can use me as a comparison to boost your confidence in your prospects! Good luck! :)

[deleted]

What did you switch to?

If you don't like University, join a trade union. Electricians can make a lot of money, pipefitters and plumbers as well.

Jobs do not have to match what you learned in school. A lot of employers just want you to have a college degree, it can be loosely related. You could be a political analyst if you want. Or a PR coordinator (Politics and communications.) You're YOUNG. Google the shit out of careers with advancement opportunities. Google which fields are expanding so you have room to move around. Once you have your car you can do even more! But do not go at it with the attitude of 'I'll never succeed', because that is what will stop you from even trying. A self perpetuating cycle of despair and failure.

Land surveyor my friend. Best of both worlds, you can split your time 50/50 with office/field and use some of your engineering math. I love my profession

If you absolutely hate engineering, switch into something that plays your strengths but still practical. A business major might be better for you.

If you're interested in engineering/construction, construction management is similar to engineering with way lessatj anduch easier

If you're good at writing, politics, and communication, then you should be a journalist. Stop your engineering classes now if you already don't like them. Journalists make at least enough of a living to put food on the table, and you'll actually live a happy life too.

You're welcome.

Journalism was actually my major when I enrolled, I was really excited about it and was put into an intro class where we just learn about the job. They had us do a project about job demand, availability, pay, and day to day responsibilities. The next day 75% of the class dropped and changed their major. The rest just took a nap. Something around $40k/yr mid career and 25% drop in job demand over the next 5 years really dampened my mood on the career

Since you liked journalism, I wonder if you might like law? I’ve know several journalists who later realized they really wanted to be lawyers. There are routes toward a JD that don’t involve taking on a lot of debt, especially if you have good grades and high LSATs...if you happen to have gotten very high SATs or ACTs, you might get a really high LSAT. (Obviously—especially if you’re paying for it—law school isn’t something to go into without a lot of careful thought. But I went from STEM to law, and it worked out great for me.)

I majored in business because I didn’t know what I wanted to do but knew business skills would at least be useful in most industries.

Have you considered trade school? Lots of really good paying jobs available if you want to work with your hands.

Computer science and project management. Maybe minor is something cross functional HR. Get a couple of internships where you can focus on a system like people soft, workday, etc. The job you want is consulting and implementing new systems. You can travel, meet people and see different companies. Almost all of them will try to hire you to maintain the new system when they go live. Good money and you're not killing yourself on a help desk. You need the internships before you graduate. Look at the big consulting companies for programs.

check out the trades. college isnt the only path to making 75k per year. get your life straight now, get a good job, and build a career off that. you can always go back to school later.

Expand your idea of what a "trade" is. Start working really hard to become "world class" at your trade. The money and opportunities will follow.

Writing blog articles is a great trade. I know many who charge over $50/hour.

politicians are really just lawyers. People of the law. They just get in power in a weird way.

Communications is just a fancy way to lump together a bunch of trades.

Engineering is a fantastic trade, especially right now.

I was in your situation not too long ago. Currently, I am 29 years old. When I was in my early 20s, I had dropped out of college with three semesters credit and $18,000 in student loans. For three years, a aimlessly drifted through life and work shitty jobs. Eventually I figured out that I should go back to school. It took me 4 1/2 years to graduate. I am now a math teacher and I am getting ready to go back and get my Masters. Once I get my Masters, I will be making over $50,000 a year. It took many years and a lot of hardship and lots of heart ache and moving to a completely different part of the country and failing repeatedly before I finally made some progress. The time will pass anyway. I know being in debt sucks, but luckily for me my loans will be for a given within 10 years. I know here on Reddit a lot of people will tell you that you do not need to go to college. While that may be true for some people, I think that is fastly overstated. A college degree is a great thing to have. My advice to you is go back to college only if you are interested in getting a useful, practical degree. Maybe computer science, maybe give engineering another shot, maybe train to be a math teacher. For real, been a teacher is not that bad of a job. There is always something to look forward to when you are a teacher, and you get plenty of time to do whatever you want or travel wherever you want. Let me know if you have any questions. Best of luck to you. And FYI, 20 is not that old. You will be my age before you know it, but you have thousands of days until then. Do something with your life.

Any skill can put food on the table if you persevere with it and set educational/career goals for yourself. You just need to strive to succeed and set a high bar for yourself. Even if you don't reach your goal but come close it'll be enough to get you somewhere. If you look to the stars you might reach the moon.

Holy crap dude, you are working with SO MUCH. I spent the entirety of my college career with about 200 dollars to my name, more or less. I had a car that I had to jerry-rig to get to start on a regular basis. It took me seven years to get my B.A (18 to 25). I started in English, then transitioned to a technical writing degree because I realized I wasn't going to make money as an English major.

I got a job by cold-applying to jobs I found on LinkedIn, put my time in doing heinously boring work, got a better job, then got a better job. Now I'm 27, make 60,000 a year and have only 12,000 dollars in debt. I do search engine optimization (that I taught myself on the job) and am soon hoping to transition to front-end development (which I am also teaching myself on the job).

You have been given a wealth of opportunity and now is your time to man the fuck up and take advantage of it. What's more important to you, stability or job satisfaction? Pick one and run for it. Accept the trade-offs you'll make to get there. Figure out a technical skill only a few people in your industry have. Then put the hard, boring hours in to LEARN it. You have your whole life in front of you, don't waste it on feeling sorry for yourself.

Perhaps technical writing? Engineers are great at making things but not writing down how they did it in a way that non-engineers... or sometimes even other engineers understand. It's a combination of engineering, writing, and communications that pays fairly well.

Writing, politics, and communications? Have you considered a career in marketing, public relations, or lobbying? These are all well established and well paying professions. Right now, perhaps speak with your advisor about paid job/intern opportunities available on campus. As well, begin getting involved in whatever clubs interest you. It's fine to purely be a member upon first joining an organization but – if you think you will do well – get involved in leadership roles when the opportunities present themselves.

You can make money doing almost anything as long as you are skilled at it and there is demand for what you offer. That's it. Moreover, finding a path in life is like piloting a sailboat: you must first be moving forward with wind in your sails. Then you can steer into a direction!

You will be okay.

Go to law school, get a masters in public policy, do research for firms (in DC?)

There are plenty of career paths, you just have to know where to look.

MAKE SURE YOU GET RESEARCH EXPERIENCE IN UNI

32 here, I have 3 degrees, 2 of them graduate, 2 technical (engineering), 1 Business.

My honest opinion is that engineering school is a mistake for you, doesn't really sound like you'll be happy with your life. You definitely have marketable skills but you'll have to get a little lucky/try really hard to find the right fit and use your skills to market yourself better. Do you really hate math? or just hate it b/c it's being forced upon you? If you can stomach it the best/safest fit for you is probably business -- but that requires you to be better in math than what you are sounding. If you can "make the grade" in engineering you're probably good enough. Business math doesn't stretch beyond ratios/exponentiation and maybe a log once in a while (more to invert exponentials (interest rates, compound growth etc.) than anything else). It's generally more about interpreting models, but there is also construction involved.

The less safe option is probably what your parents are scared of, but there are definitely OK jobs in communication, writing, and politics. I'm pretty sure you'll be happier there (and isn't that what we're all after?). You'll start off making less money for sure but if you work hard (motivated by your interests) you can probably make a lot later in life.

Edit: wanted to add more advice. If you don't do engineering then definitely seek the lowest liability way of finishing the degree. I.e. community college > higher rep state school > private (generally...). Unless you're in the top tier of schools, rep isn't going to matter. Also that loan mistake, be honest with yourself. If you managed your life right and were organized, you wouldn't have made that mistake. I still have organizational problems now so it's no biggie, but correct it :).

It's better to be really good at something that only pays ok than really bad at something that pays well.

My wife was acing arts/psychology, because she was really interested in it, but her parents told her it was a dead end career. She switched to Computer Science, and it took her 10 years to finish it, and then she didn't even get a job in the industry. I'm happy she did because that's where we met, but for her happiness I wish she'd finished her arts degree.

If you love what you do you'll put up with the hard parts of building a worthwhile career, and if you don't, you won't. I'm sure your parents mean well, but it's your life and you're going to have to deal with the consequences of your choices.

I was in your situation at 20 too. Worked full time for a supermarket to pack up the groceries of more fortunate people than me while sharing rent with 5 others. The first thing I realized was that there was experience and knowledge (about stuff and about others, but mostly about myself) to be gained everywhere, I just had to start paying attention more.

It will always be a journey. You say that politics and communication you like, but there is no money to be made there... Try finding something related to those fields that IS worth something and build from that. With all the available ressources to you (Glassdoor, etc) it should not be too difficult to get an idea of what a senior might be worth in a related field. I do advanced marketing and communication and I now have major political parties as my clients and I am not at my 3rd election because I had a skill those folks were looking for.

The best thing you can do is start changing the little things you have control over. You said your hobbies are not useful... Find something in one of your hobbies that might prove useful, even if it may be far fetched, and start doing a little bit more of that. Let say you like video games: the logic of building a video game, how to market a video game, how video games companies are managing themselves, can all prove useful one way or another down the path, even if they seem unlikely now.

You only have control over yourself. Try to make the most of your time. Learning how to learn by yourself will be the best and most useful skill you can ever pick up, because you can become interested in everything with a little practice.

I'm not saying the road ahead is necessarily easy. I was scraping for years before making a place for myself.. But here is the thing: I kept on fighting with everything I had. Here I am, 10 years later, with my own company, consulting political parties, luxury brands and automotive companirs on how to run their businesses.

Communications doesn't put food on the table? Let me tell that to half of my university

Yup, you're looking at grant writing for non profits, etc. They pay quite well.

Have you thought about trade school? There is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, and carpenters.

Do you live with your parents over summer break? Where do they live?

A buddy of mine independently paid his way through a private university by hauling ass and running a super small mulching business over summer breaks.

He’d go home for a couple of weekends around this time of year and cold call people (knocked on doors, gave them a business card and offered to mulch their yard for a fair price). Bought all of his mulch from one company and convinced them to give him a great price in return for consistent business. Through trial and error, he learned to estimate how many yards of mulch a yard required. He spread it by himself or sometimes with his brother or me. Worked his ass off, but he earned an exceptional amount of money, learned to love working hard and felt the fulfillment that running your own business can bring.

It takes some grit to do things like this. Some people think that grit can’t be learned, but I disagree to an extent. I think plenty of people have the ability but just haven’t awakened it.

If you can pull something like this off—it doesn’t have to be mulching—, it proves that you have the industriousness to be successful in life in whatever path you choose. With that kind of reassurance, you can then feel confident in studying whatever the hell you want to study; you’ll also be able to afford it financially.

I'm about to graduate from college after switching majors after a year, and I can tell you that if your school has a competent advising staff, it could prove to be very helpful. It is their job to help you answer these questions, and most of them so it pretty well.

Personally I know of a couple people who work in tech (IT/CS/engineering) that got promoted to a management position and don't work much with the tech itself anymore. They're the communicators that primarily deal with the techs to ensure goals are being met and progress is being made. Being a good communicator is worth something to a lot of companies.

For now, if you don't have a job and have extra time, find a job. Preferably something that deals with people, like a waiter or a commissioned salesperson. That way, you can make some extra money off of your talent in communication. The happier people are, the more they're willing to spend/tip.

Anyways, I hope I said something you didn't already know. Sorry about the formatting, I'm on mobile.

Do you hate math because it's boring or because it's hard?

If it's boring that means it's easy for you and you should push yourself fast and hard to get to the point where it isn't any more, even if that's a PhD.

I thought I hated math and science until my forties. Now I realize that they just came naturally to me and my TEACHERS were boring.

Be sure you know the difference before you give up on it.

Go apprentice in a trade. You're young, you haven't made any mistake in "wasting" time figuring out your life.

I started as an electrician apprentice at 27 after aimlessly sailing from crappy job to crappy job to a decent paying job but with zero upward mobility. Took a pretty massive pay cut starting out and couldn't be happier now a year into it, especially knowing that it will be the best paying job I've ever had by the time I get my license.

I wish I knew this in my early twenties. Currently A year shy from thirty and still floundering around in life.

28 here, floundering all the same. You're not alone

Literally everyone is floundering through life. That's what life is: you flounder around for awhile, then you die. You're not special.

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I wish this comment wasn't so relatable...

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See but then you research this and apprenticeships take place after years of schooling (can't afford) and then you apprentice for 1-4 years at 12 dollars an hour (unlivable wage) until you become a real tradesman, at which point I make 3 dollars an hour more on average than I do now... 5 years to make barely more money while I can't even afford the time nor the actual money to do any of that

I'm going to hit 27 and have never had a paying job due to extreme anxiety that built up when I was an art major. After years following that path I dropped it realizing that although I love art, it isn't what I want as work. I finally found classes for careers involving animals (that I've yet to start). but the thing is people have always told me to keep trying many things until I find "the one" no matter how long it takes because all that matters in the end is knowing what makes you happy and either have that as a career or work hard to maintain it

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Great mate :) what field is that?

I know OP, it was kung fu

If you choose not to decide, you have still made a choice!

You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill

You still have made a choice* ;)

Thanks for the reminder :)

Yeah but I still don't know what to do.

I feel like this is a personal insult

If you have no better ideas, volunteer your time and energy to a good cause, like soup kitchens, womens' shelters, big brother/big sister programs, habitats for humanity, etc - you're at least making the world a better place and it is very likely that in the process of doing so you will meet other people with their heads on straight, resulting in friendships that themselves can lead to career or hobby connections, relationships, etc.

tl;dr- if no better ideas, build your social net through good deeds

Yup. Try going down a road, if it ends up a dead end, turn around and go down another one, just keep going down roads. This is completely what separates you from the majority of individuals who are stuck in the mindset of "I don't know what to do with my life". Just TRY something, don't be afraid, it IS scary of the unknown, but that's what makes you stronger as an individual is when you try things.

For ex: I moved across the country to go back to uni to study for a profession. This program is 3 years of school but come out with a guaranteed career. I took the leap to move and go back to school even though I don't have much money left. I graduated with a degree before in my early 20's worked for a few years, realized my life is boring and I can't do this for the rest of my life, felt stuck, and decided I needed something new. I said to myself "I will earn myself a specific set of skills that will make me employable within the next X number of years"

THE POINT OF THIS IS...

If after a year, or two years I decide this isn't what I want to do, that's completely fine. Yes I used money I once had, but I gained the experience and DETERMINATION to take that leap and try a road I haven't ventured, which most individuals lack the courage to do. If you don't try things you will be perpetually stuck working a dead end job thinking "what am i doing with my life".

Only with failures come success, don't be afraid of that potential failure. A common thing individuals say at the end of their life (I work in the healthcare field) are a few things typically:

  • 1: I cared about the wrong things

  • 2: I wish I took more risks

  • 3: I wish I traveled more

I have never heard anyone say "I wish I never took that risk which failed". Those risks ... I don't even want to call them risks... those roads in life are necessary in figuring out what you DON'T want to do, that's the hardest part. It's the same as going from relationship to relationship, you learn something new from every relationship. And the reason you don't date again is because you "don't want to get hurt". STOP BEING AFRAID. The next person you meet might be perfect.

I've seen things and felt things that I want to forget more than anything. Life would have been so much simpler if I hadn't travelled, if I could lie to myself. If I could fit in. Life would be better if I liked the road I'm on. This is road 3 or 4 that I'm on. I've pulled off 2 complete 180°s, burned bridges doing it. I'm still the same. Having sex didnt make me happy or normal or less of an asshole. Going to university didn't make me enlightened or driven to study anymore than I decided by myself. Maybe I just push all the real friends away. Not really, I know exactly why they don't contact me anymore. It's the same reason I'm writing this post here now. I tried. I really really really tried many times and still fell on my face. I was born so privileged, silver fucking spoon in hand, squandered it all. I didn't know myself before I had worked regular normal people jobs for 2 years out of HS, been in the military, been physically fit, lived on my own, blah blah blah. I am honestly and sincerely telling everyone here's about this. I still feel like a piece of shit. I'm not out of options, but none of the myriad of options that I have tried in my early 20s have taken away the melancholia, the anxiety and disappointment.

Dating H,A and E didn't teach me anything. I did the wrong thing by giving off the illusion that they could have a relationship with me. I didn't think about them when I hadn't sex with them. Maybe I'm a sociopath. Nobody understands is always the issue. And explaining what I want from a relationship is always futile. Nobody hears it. They dont want to. I DONT WANT YOU FOR YOUR GENITAL HOLE AND YOUR STUNNING LOOKS. I WANT A BEST FRIEND. I can't even begin to explain it. I'm open to the idea that my view of how I act around people is misguided. I'm open to the idea that there are many types of relationships that work(except long distance, those don't). A 6 month intimate relationship isn't enough for me to write your biography but it's always the time when the girl realizes that I'm not really worth keeping around. Can't invest, doesn't feel right. Hard tears and one less friend in the end.

This deserves the gold it got. Solid advice.

Exactly. Try some new things, get a hobby that fills you with pride and accomplishment. Play a sport to stay fit and meet new people.

The only wrong thing to do when you're lost in a forest is to stand still. Pick a direction and walk, if you don't know the way.

I live my life doing what I want. I'm not interested in trying to work towards a fulfilling career or starting a family or anything like that. We've only got so much time here and I'll be damned if I waste it working towards something I may never get to achieve. So I live my life one day at a time.

Want to go to the beach? Take a couple days off work and go. Want to chill with some friends and get super drunk? Then do it. That new game that just came out looks really fun. Then buy it.

You could end up dead tomorrow and think to yourself "I wish I didn't waste so much time trying to juggle school and work, I never got to do anything fun" but not me. I do what I want and that's basically how I deal with my depression and anxiety. I know that if I die tomorrow I wouldn't have any regrets because I had fun with my life.

oh wow be prepared for when all this is future you's problem

That's how depression goes unfortunately. I'm glad he's found a way to just get through the day and enjoy things, honestly. Personally I know how hard that can be.

Well with any luck I die tragically young

That’s been my issue. I’m 20, dropped out of college because I felt like I was wasting time and money. Worked at McDonald’s for like two years and lived in my moms basement broke as fuck (I had to help pay bills). My dad offered to let me stay with him for free (I had to move 10 hours away) as long as I go back to school. I’ve had this mindset that I’ll hate whatever job I end up going to school for. But if I have to work a job I’ll hate, I might as well make it one that pays well.

As someone who is 21 that dropped out at like 19, I've realized the term "drop out" doesn't actually mean anything: imagine if instead you had a job that you didn't want to do anymore or couldn't afford to do anymore. They wouldn't say you "dropped out" of the job, just that you left. You can always pick it up again later on, college doesn't just disappear the moment you want a break after high school.

If you want to have a job first to see what kind of work aspect fits you best before just tossing yourself into a career, I don't see the problem with it. Too many people take out student loans, not really knowing what they want to do, and then get tacked on with debt and more guilt and regret, making them feel like bad people.

Granted, I suppose there's a big difference between taking out loans to finish a degree you don't care about, or living for free at your dad's house while finishing a degree you don't care about. I didn't have any clue what I wanted to do all the way until I was 21 (now), but it's never too late to get some ideas. Just give yourself some time, look up pros and cons to different jobs and such, fiddle around with what you know or like.

And sometimes the answer is way simpler than you think. All my life I thought I had to be some sort of manager of a big company to even have a little leverage, but after doing some research I found some careers in my area of expertise (computers and hardware, as well as appliance stuff), and now I'm kinda excited to go back to school. Can't afford more than 1 class a semester and math it still gonna dick me down, but at least I have a reason to try this time.

Yeah I’ve just really struggled to find out what I wanna do with myself.

Well I guess something is better than nothing

Exactly, you figure it out sometimes by just trying stuff. Some things lead to other things that you never knew was a possibility or even crossed your mind as something you might be interested in.

I think I needed to hear this today. Thank you!

This is/was my problem. I worked kind of random jobs or was unemployed after college. Saying I don't want to be a nurse and don't want to be a teacher, but I did not know what I wanted to be. I was stuck. I started a teacher certification and dragged my feet at it and took more than 3 years to complete the program (might even be 5 years). Just turned 30, actively studying for state test for mid-May while working as teacher aide.

eh i like sitting around

What if you know what you want to do with your life, but not how to do it?

Personally, I didn't figure out my goals in life until I started trying different things. Sitting and thinking wasn't useful, DOING and experimenting was. I tried labour work- money was nice, but no job satisfaction. Tried emergency restoration, like helping people during a flood kind of stuff, found it satisfying but not sustainable. Went to school for pre-med degree, found I was good at it. Boom, now I'm on my way to being an Osteopath. Experiments and process of elimination

Adding to that: if you don't know what to do with your life, do everything. Do things incredibly outside your wheel house and experience something new you didn't know you loved

How do I tell my girlfriend this without sounding condescending?

I'm only halfway to my degree, but I'm constantly doing personal projects related to my career (sound design) and taking every opportunity I can to pick up side jobs that I feel would help my career.

My girlfriend has had her English degree for 3 years, has no idea what she wants to do for a career, and is making no effort to figure it out. So she's stuck working a part time retail job that she hates.

I love her to death, but I hate seeing her both so miserable with her job and so uninterested in finding a career. I want to help her out, but I also don't know how to help without seeming like an asshole.

I wish this can hit my roommates harder in the face. Reality will catch up...

Seconding - took me three careers to find one I love. This helped me a lot.

Pretty much. I'm not sure I love my current career, but I figured doing something that makes me a good amount of money and is interesting is probably my best bet while I figure out what I really want to do.

At least I'm not homeless in the interim.

This is so true it hurts me.

I’ve been trying to do something with music and I’ve been agonising over whether to do this thing or this thing and really that’s stupid, I just need to do something. Thanks

Adding to that, if you are at that point don't think "it's too late" and just give up, a large number of people you would consider successful made it later in life.

Also don't turn down opportunities at work because you don't know how to do it. Just say yes and learn, from this better opportunities will come up! (disclaimer... Some jobs you can't do this. Do not do surgery when you are a painter etc)

Thanks for this. I needed to hear this today man.

Note to the unemployed: don’t act like you have nothing to do; you’re either applying to jobs, working side jobs, volunteering, or studying something!

Adding to this, another one of the biggest mistakes you can make in your twenties is doing something irreversible simply because you don't know what else to do with your life.

By all means dabble, venture, explore. But don't do something like getting $250k into debt for law school when you can't even explain why you want to be a lawyer.

The internet -- and the modern world in general -- have effectively shattered the idea that any particular career will be a guaranteed, steady, high-income career for the rest of your life. So do not allow yourself to be fooled by anecdotes from the past, or even trends from the past.

The world is changing rapidly, and you really can get in over your head when it comes to student loans, or borrowing too much to fund an outdated business model.

Dang....thanks

I said "bitchhhhh"

Seriously. I can't echo this enough. Full disclaimer: I'm a recent college graduate about 9 months into my first full-time job in a field that most people would consider decently lucrative, but that I don't think I want to remain in.

In short, feel free to take what I'm saying with a grain of salt; however, I think I have some takeaways to add since I spend too much time thinking about these issues.

1) Surround yourself with other hungry, successful people. If the kids from my high school were still my primary friend group I'm almost certain that I would be far more complacent and content to ride off of my previous successes. Its easy to feel like you're hot shit when your barometer is someone who's been working at the movie theatre for 3 years (that's not to denigrate these people. I respect people in all industries and don't think that judging someone, especially without understanding their background is useful).

2)To add to 1, that is not to say that you should surround yourself with only career-obssessed, workaholic individuals. A varied circle of friends including Wall St. bankers, artists and musicians, aid workers, tech entrepreneurs and medical students is probably leagues better for the sake of one's own interests and open-mindedness than hanging out with only one of the aforementioned groups.

3)This is something that I struggle with constantly: don't compare yourself directly to other people. This may seem contradictory since in 1 I mentioned the importance of being around other successful people to prevent yourself from being complacent, but I think these people should be used as inspiration not direct competition. My collegiate peers offer a strong contrast to my high school peers, and as such I know multiple people in their early-mid 20s making upwards of $300-$400k/yr along with other friends who have already secured 7 figure Venture backing for their start ups, and still others who are going to top graduate schools. It is easy for me to sometimes feel inadequate or lost, especially since I don't know what I want to do in the long run. I have to remind myself that I can't pursue every single path and not every path is necessarily right for me.

4)Have outside interests. Seriously no matter how good you are at your job or how preeminent you are in your field if you are literally only capable of talking about work you should work on becoming more well rounded and in touch with the rest of the world.

5)Even if you have no idea what you want to do, do something. Learn to draw, get a job volunteering, study for the GRE, work hard at your current job and keep your eye open for other opportunities etc etc. I do believe that even experiences or skills that may not seem marketable or useful in the moment can prove very fulfilling or even helpful in the long run.

6)Don't listen to what random people on the internet tell you to do - go out there and figure things out for yourself. Maybe, idk.

You my friend deserve more than fake internet points and reddit gold.

Im almost 40yrs old. I finished my business degree in my home country hoping to continue my fathers business. Asian crisis hit and the business folded. Went to the US to work for my uncle's termite company and did this for 5 years. While doing this, i did handyman work as a side job. Decided to go into nursing school while working and was able to graduate and work for 6 years in a skilled nursing facility.

What am i doing now? I have an eel business back in my home country and is currently working for the government's anti-corruption commission. Yeah.

I thought i knew what i wanted to do then i was served with reality. I guess the lesson here is to never stop trying, never stop moving. Failure isn't when your plans decided to say "no", it is when you decide to say no to changing your plans.

Second this, with one addition: say “yes” to opportunity. I got a job as a full time photojournalist that started with me saying, “yeah I could do that.” After newspapers collapsed, I ended up going back to college. Was studying marketing when I ran into someone I had worked with at the newspaper. He offered me a job as a web developer. I had some experience, but not much. Just went with it anyway. Few years after that, I start to make a name for myself. Win some awards, land some big contracts. I’m helping to develop curriculum for a programming class one year. The guy teaching it emails me about a month after we’re done and tells me he’s leaving and wants to know if I’m interested. Said “sure” now I do that.

I just keep saying yes and shit gets cooler and cooler.

For non-Brits, a planning is a schedule

Not just motivated, but disciplined as well :) Motivation has a tendency to easily fade away but discipline - once you've mastered it, you know you will be in control.

Exactly.

For those searching for meaning, this recent post by Tim Urban on Careers is an amazing guide to picking a good career choice.

It takes a few hours to read though.

I read this article last week and decided to go thru the whole 34 page exercise packet at the end and I’m still working thru it. It’s tough but I think it’s helping...

I’m 29 with a history degree and I had fun in my 20s doing seasonal manual labor work that allowed me to travel but now I’m a barista at Starbucks struggling to make enough for rent. It’s rough out there...

I guess that makes the "we have rent to pay" tentacle a very prominent one for you for good reasons. That makes the whole octopus a less flexible guidance animal I guess.

I don't know, see of there is any way you can reduce your monetary needs so that it gives you more flexibility? If that is a sacrifice you are willing to make. If it's not, then we know your bottom line on that aspect as well, that's also good to know to get to know your real situation.

Keep tight!

Yea I’ve definitely been doing that, and taking good advice from /r/personalfinance too. The article has at least caused me really start exploring job options and career paths that I’d since written off so that’s a positive!

Yeah, you catch your life by living it, not by staying at home doing nothing.

Not trying to be contrary here, but what does it mean to do nothing with your life?

I've been without any activities for almost a year now, living at my parent's. I have gone out 3 times with the same two friends during this period, rest of the time I'm at home on the Internet.

My only real hobby is league of legends.

Prior to that I've been studying in apprenticeship/sandwich course in a field that doesn't appeal to me at all. The world of the office, the "real world", where you work in an office with co workers etc made me sick.

Since I've been in school I've always lived one year as only leading up to the next.

I'm now 26 and I can already feel my life slipping through my fingers.

Also I think I'm depressed.

There you go, it's honestly pretty easy to do nothing.

I’m certainly no authority on the subject, but I think you are right in that you are depressed. I’m sorry to hear you are going through that. From my understanding, depression is not something you can just decide to get over; it is a mental disorder. Your do nothing-ness sounds like a symptom, and I don’t think anyone can fault you for that. I don’t think you should fault yourself for that. There is help out there and it takes courage ask for it; I hope you can. I hope you find your happiness...good luck stranger.

But what do I do

All about some spirit walks

Not knowing what to do with your life is the perfect time to try lots of new things and give serious effort to flights of fancy. Theres nothing wrong with tackling weird projects or things that just make you laugh, the time was going to go by anyway.

Yups. I had a friend of mine unemployed for 1.5yrs waiting for “the right job.” I asked “what about Mr/Miss Right Now?!” Seriously. It’s not like you have to put “stock boy at the Kwiki Mart until I found the right CEO position in an extremely niche market” on your resume. But he’d just pull out articles where people said you shouldn’t just take any job. The Water Company disagrees.

If you're in a dead-end career wise (like I was) look into taking courses at a community college or technical school. Obviously it varies, but within 6 months to a year you can have yourself a handful of in-demand skill that'll help you land your first career job. Just that opens a ton of doors.

A degree in something you might not use it’s a hell of a lot more useful than no degree at all. (A strange example, but at least you can say you tried.)

I feel called out.

Adding to this: I’m 24 and don’t know what I want to do. But I stay active and stay working. Now I’m one of the top in my company, own a house and can afford to live on my own. Because I stayed busy while at the same time searching for what I want to do. Start saving now. No matter how old you are! SAVE SAVE SAVE! Once you get enough you can invest money and make money out of money but don’t be afraid to talk to people who know and do that stuff for a living.

Asking for help is not a sign of weakness. It’s a sign of strength

thanks i needed this today

Reminds me of the song Time by Pink Floyd.

"Staying home to watch the rain, you are young and life is long and there is time to kill today. Then one day you find, ten years have got behind you. No one told you where to run, you missed the starting gun..."

Only being 17 I realize how scary this line is. Absolutely terrifies me.

I've been spending weekends in my apartment doing nothing. I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm just not sure what to do with my free time.

For sure. I have no clue what I’m going to do but I guess I decided to get into marketing and am doing that....I’m employed and on track to a very lucrative future. If I decide I want to do something else, great! I’d really RATHER do something else. But if I haven’t figured that out in 10 years, oh well I guess I’ll just take my high paying stable job and cry myself to sleep.

Where do I start?

If anything; it means you have to do absolutely almost everything to find out what you want to do. I have no clue what I want, so I proceed to try to do anything (related to my major) to get there.

But what should I do than? Ugh this is so hard I'm doing school, traveling, starting a business and all this productive shit but I don't wake up with a sense of meaning. I wake up and hope I'll figure it out but I never do

How can i explain this to my girlfriend in a nice way?

She's been working in the service industry for 4 years and keeps applying to school getting accepted and then backing out. She's gone to many a info session before she applys to school but always ends up backing out.

I needed to hear this 30 years ago....

Now you tell me...

What if you have depression lol

this is a hard truth for someone who has no clue what they wanna do with their life. (me btw)

What if nothing feels safer than something? People tell me “No risk, no reward”. But no risk also means no risk. :(

I know what I want to do, but are there actually any jobs in low-level programming?

This being said, don't just do the first thing that comes along. Tale a little time for evaluation of different options. For a job, for example, write down you top 10 things (out of thousands of things you could do) you would like to do. Then just google them on the annual income. It's much better to choose your 7th choice that average pays twice as much as your 1st choice. It's still top 10. Money makes the world go round and all.

God, I needed this. Thanks.

What I want to do in life is nothing, and everything whenever I want.

I disagree to an extent.

I think that if you don't know what to do with your life, then you should do "nothing" for a year or maybe two. Spend that time trying new things. Learn to write a simple program. Learn to bake. Build something out of wood. Learn some math. Whatever. Try new things until you hit one and you know "Yeah. This is the one. I'm going to do something with this skill."

Now you know what to spend your future money on at college.

Source: Did that. Am now spending future me's money on college for something I am actually interested in.

I don’t know what I want to do in my life so I’m trying out different things - careerwise. I work in the fashion industry now and I never thought that I’d work here. Now is this what I like to do? Not really but it’s fun and maybe I’ll end up doing this as a career. The thing is you’ll never know what you really want to do unless you dabble in different things

Yes not only career wise but hobby/interest wise. Start doing the things you like now before you’re too tired or old to do them. And if they’re life long hobbies you’ll be pretty good at them by the time retirement rolls around!

Also it’s never too late to try/do anything! That doesn’t mean to put it off but still, don’t feel discouraged to pick up a new hobby/try something new because you think you’re too old

I try and do a bunch of of things but, haven't found a hobby that I sit back at work and say "i can't wait to get back to doing THAT again"

Other than travelling, but that takes time off of work, time that I dont exactly have(vacation hours etc.)

Especially hobby/interest wise, I'd say, even. Also, relationship wise.

Way too many people just get into auto-pilot mode after they find themselves a decent, stable job. And/or maybe they just feel content with a relationship that is cold and dead but it's the status quo.

I found myself living like that for a few years, and the feeling of breaking "free" from it is like waking up from an overly long sleep. I honestly feel like I wasted years of my life doing literally nothing with my time.

Now I've been pursuing my hobbies again and trying to fulfill some old dreams of creating stuff that I always wanted to.

Glad you're doing well. I want to make that jump like you did, but I feel so much inner resistance/laze/sloth - working on myself feels like trying to hold my breath. I'm going to try harder so hopefully it will become easier through repetition.

Not only that, but by investing into getting better at my hobby I was eventually able to turn it into a well paying career. I'm now in my early 30s, self employed, working my own schedule, doing work I absolutely love while getting paid very well... all because I didn't give up on hobbies I was passionate about.

Yes I'm really shitty at drawing and guitar right now but I'm hoping that as long as I practice more than once per month I'll be good by the time I retire, if not sooner

Once per month is enough to maintain current level (assuming it isn't too high to start with), and maybe get slightly better at a very slow rate. We're talking glacial pace at best once you get past the absolute basics. Daily practice is the ideal for most skills. Obviously other responsibilities and life in general tend to intervene if that's not your primary focus, but the more you can practice most things, the better really.

This is why I need to buy a banjo. I've never played guitar or anything like it before, but damnit in 40 years I want to be a grumpy old man sitting on my stoop playing the banjo and yelling at kids.

Also note, "reddit" is not a good choice of hobby/interest.

Does this mean I'll be good enough to make it into diamond in Overwatch comp by the time I retire?

I'd like to counter that hobbies and interests can lead you to new contacts that may spark a new work opportunity. Happened to me.

I've been taking this to heart ever since I graduated college. I used to think that I needed to find the perfect job that I'd be in for 30 years but realized that's not a thing anymore.

I've had 3 jobs in 4 years and each move, I've gotten a 10% pay raise and a new job position, and I'm not about to stop now. My current job is boring and unfulfilling, so I think "Well, what else can I do?" and I go out and find it.

Even if you have problems with motivation, you need to make moves on your own and work to get what you want, and not think about what other people think. You gotta find your own happiness in life.

Edit to Add: I graduated college 4 years ago so I'm still early in my career and have no dependents.

I've had 3 jobs in 4 years and each move, I've gotten a 10% pay raise and a new job position, and I'm not about to stop now.

Young people, read this. I'm more than a decade out of my 20s and have had about a 20% pay raise, total, since I entered the professional world. And now I'm on the downslope of whatever career I had. Today's world is not like your parents said it was: job hopping isn't just acceptable; it's required. And without self-confidence and self-worth you can't do it. Avoid depression and do all you can to stay happy so that you can go to interviews and pass them!

100% agree. I mentioned this in a comment in a different/related thread, but:

I've recently been talking to a family friend who's been in my profession for a long time, and who is much older. He told me that if you're in a job for 3 years with no real movement you've been there too long, and 2 years is typically when people my age (26) move on to something else. the 30-year-job is gone. No one is going to take better care of you than yourself, so just find something you want to do.

if you're in a job for 3 years with no real movement you've been there too long

Nineteenth year doing the same job here :( The entire time, I felt grateful just to not be flipping burgers or digging ditches and never considered going for more. My employer also has aggressive performance indicators that you have to meet just to maintain your salary; every employee becomes much more skilled over the years but isn't necessarily paid more. And we have to stay on this continuous-improvement treadmill all the time.

Gaining skills to be used somewhere better!

As a younger engineer it's been hard finding jobs. Big companies don't hesitate to take older people over younger ones. Whatever your field, do you think it would ever be too late to switch jobs? Assuming logistics, family, friends works out fine, why not look for a new company?

I'm too beaten down psychologically to ever try a job interview. Deep down, at the bottom of my heart, I think I'm worthless. I've had some real bullies for bosses, and haven't been able to overcome how I've been treated.

I'm not really complaining: I have a roof over my head, and food on my plate. I make over $40k per year, which anyone in the third world would do anything for. And I think I'm undeserving of even that. I'm just going to stick it out as long as I can.

It hurts to even hear you say that you think that way. Please don’t give up on yourself. If you feel good staying there that’s fine, but I hope you consider talking to a friend or therapist. You made it this far with a difficult job, you’re definitely capable of doing something elsewhere. It breaks my heart that so many people get beaten down until they start to bring themselves down. Please believe in yourself.

THanks indeed for the wishes. One day at a time, right?

Just a little bit of consistent effort goes a long way.

ONE DAY AT A TIME! You bring value to your workplace don’t let those bully bosses let you think otherwise

Shit, yo, everybody can get better at anything. All about that growth mindset.

I was the same way. Look up "imposter syndrome". You dont have to feel stuck. There is better out there. Just update your resume and put it out there "for fun" and see what happens. You dont have to accept the job, but even just casually browse.

I really want to give you some advice, but that's not an easy thing to come up with an answer to, friend.

What are your hobbies? If you have no hobbies what do you like to do for fun? What types of movies are your favorite? Seriously, cause you can make money doing pretty much anything. I'm pretty good at solving problems and coming up with ideas. Give me something to think about and I'll try to think of something better.

Main point will be something like: "don't give a shit about other people, use all your nine lives and piss off the people that piss you off"

Ah, "avoid depression"... /r/wowthanksimcured

Step 1. ‘Avoid depression’
Step 2. /r/restofthefuckingowl/

haha, was about to ask how one does that.

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Could it be supply and demand? I'm making more money now as a project manager (just started with a new company today) than I was as an electrical engineer.

Totally like I got my cake ass investment banking job through my dad and like if I were to jump jobs the new job might make me work and understand things (lol) ew no thanks I'll take my 25% annual raise wat are these people even talking about, def not always the case (btw my starting salary was more than anyone reading this)

You said it. On average if you're not making huge strides or getting a good raise after 2 years at your job you must jump ship. On average just a job change you'll see a huge hike in salary vs staying at the same job. It's strange but job hopping every 2-3 years is the only way to get ahead. Otherwise be happy with your 35 cent a year raise. Or hearing we can't give you a raise because some BS about team building that has nothing to do with your awesome performance.

I’ve definitely been one to utilize the job-hopping, however I’ve noticed there’s still a significant amount of employers who see this as a red flag. I’ve been lectured by multiple baby boomers and gen x’ers about sticking with jobs, but it’s like you said, the positions become stagnant, there’s no more “climbing the corporate ladder,” and eventually the means don’t justify the ends. I need to live here and when the pay raises don’t keep up with the rising living expenses, I have no other choice but to jump ship.

Will/Has this become something of less concern among employers? Keep in mind, I’ve mostly been employed in Utah and a lot of businesses here are still running off a twentieth century mindset.

31 and just getting my head around this concept. It's not too late!

I've had the same job from age 20 to 31. It's entry level but highly secure and payed enough that I was able to become a homeowner. I've always felt I could do better, but I was just too damn comfortable and on cruise control.

I had the whole 'sunk-cost' fallacy going against me (11 years worth of raises? If I leave I have to start over!) Plus I just kinda assumed this was (about) as good as I could ever get.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Just now I am dipping my toes into the job market and seeing what else I could do. My first promising lead pays $1.50 more per hour and features a much more appealing line of work.

My first promising lead pays $1.50 more per hour and features a much more appealing line of work.

I'm very happy for you, and I suspect that at some point you will even look back and find that $1.50 to be trivial.

I'm in my 19th year in my job. With each passing year the quality of new graduates goes up and I feel more and more like I could never get hired today. If I tried to move on, I would probably look for a salary that's even lower than what I started with nearly two decades ago.

People who change jobs regularly don't just get more money; they get continuous infusions of self-confidence as each successive employer says "yes" to them. Sometimes I think that's even more valuable than the extra money.

My gawd this is me right now.

I graduated 4 years ago thinking that I'd use my economucs degree to improve my country. After dozens of applications over 3 years, I wasn't accepted to all government positions I applied to.

In my heart, I am an artist, and I thought economic research would be a compromise between my passion and a stable job. Nope. Now I work on a soulless corporate banking world, good pay but no fulfillment.

I still cling to my creative writing hobby, hoping to publish a book before 30. But now I am getting tired and tired and demoralized.

Plus there is a the expectations to marry and have children first because I am the first born. My parents want grandchildren... I haven't found someone yet.

I am struggling to fight against this "slow death" of losing my passions and occasional depression. I have already given up a career in performing arts and my singing will go nowhere. However there are so much expectations in my culture, and that I support my nuclear family financially, plus a lot of obligations..

Sorry for ranting, but I am still working on my problems. If anyone feeling the same is reading this you are not alone. If I get out of this, I will share my experience.

Honestly, I am also struggling with no motivation and lack of passion. Which is part of the reason I job-hop. I get bored, or am unfulfilled, and want to find something I really love, but now I don't even love what hobbies I used to have because I am just tired. It's tough, especially for people our age.

I know the feeling...

I sit on this cubicle asking myself; should this be my life for the next five years?

I see my old classmates living their dreams and I get so jealous. What did they do right that I didn't do? Was it because I was thinking too much of supporting my family that I played it safe and took little risks?

The thing with me is that I know what I love. I'd rather act and sing. I'd rather write all day essays and stories. I fantasized that if I was born in a wealthier family or in a first world country I would have pursued art.

But yeah I am at this point, along with a lot of young people in their 20's that are demoralized. It's so hard... (hugs)

What country are you from?

Philippines. Middle class. That means not hungry, can afford bills and occasional travel, but not earning enough to afford a decent independent life. I contribute money to pay for my family's expenses.

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Sometimes I get so jealous. First world countries have benefits for the poor, and they can go to work and come home not thinking about the poor public transpo, not thinking about the dangers of nightfall. Everyday I endure 4-5 hours of commute, wasting my life inside a crowded van. Others have it worse than me.

Hey at least I am not starving! But sometimes I think of leaving, finding life in another country. Where? Singapore? Would my skills be enough? Would I be welcome? Besides, even if I go abroad, wouldn't I be living in the same corporate cubicle?

I don't know. Our options are so limited.

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The thing was, my father suffered stroke 2 years ago and that put a strain to our financials and put an end to some of my plans. He can now work again but his health suffered a lot and I am afraid he'll die before my teenage sister graduates college or before I birth grandkids.

I think that I will regret it if my father dies without seeing grandkids. Plus the fact that I am Forever Alone, it messes up my head. I am living the prime of my physical health stuck in a corporate cubicle, with dying passions, single, and working against a deadline that terrifies me.

Edit: Why downvote?

That’s my biggest fear I think. I finish my marketing degree next year but I never cared for business. It just felt like a versatile degree. Deep down I don’t care if I’m working at a coffee shop as long as I have time to work on my craft. I don’t even want a corporate high-paying job after graduation. I don’t want to trade all of my time for money. It defeats the purpose for me. I might regret it if I don’t make my dreams come true, but I’d regret living a life that I hate even more.

I had that philosophy as well and I don't mind the lack of luxuries as long as I can practice my craft. I would be happy living in a small apartment alone and dedicating my free time to writing and art.

But I don't think that without the job I have, I can sustain myself and be financially independent, nor can I contribute to supporting my grandma with alzheimer's.

Maybe it gets better when I get older? i don't know. I just pray to find someone who would understand who I am, and not be stuck in a traditional marriage where I would sacrifice my passions to raise kids. Rather, I wi never enter something like that at the first place.

In the end I think we all know what we want for ourselves in the future. We can’t control our circumstances, but we can control which direction we go towards. Even if it’s a slow pace, I want to head into the direction of being the most fulfilled and best version of myself. It’s just a gut feeling that I’m doing the right thing.

What do I do if no one will hire me to begin with?

Having connections helps. In my first job out of college I started out as an assistant to the CEO. I hated it, and I literally wanted to die. I was sick every other week, and worked from 7AM-2AM at least twice a week. My performance was shit because I was miserable, and so came the first job I'd ever been fired from in my adult life.

I was jobless for about 3 months before my high school friend said "my company is looking for an hourly production person if you want to apply", so I did. I went in for the interview and it turned out it was actually a salaried production management position. I had never done management before, but apparently they liked me so much they hired me on the spot. And that's how I started my PM career.

Sometimes it's just stupid luck, and weird circumstances, and knowing people in the right places. Even if you start out at a shit job, you learn new skills to put on your resume to take you further. Although, every day I'm paranoid and terrified I'm going to fail and get fired again somewhere else.

i know that's probably not the most helpful thing ever, but it's just been my experience.

I've gotten a 10% pay raise and a new job position

Try to aim for at least 30%, otherwise it's not worth it, unless you see a potential of a 100% down the road.

I've learned to tell people I'm getting paid much more than I am when interviewing/accepting offers now. I was spoiled at my second job by getting 10-12% in my first year there by the boss. When I moved to my current job I told them I was making $10K more than I was, so they offered me a bit over that. But I also need to make sure it's realistic for my job title. My current employer can't afford to give people more than 2%-3% raises.

Gone are the days of raises. The rule is every 2 years, a new job with a 30% increase, until no longer possible.

It's a big mistake to wait for someone to give you a raise.

It's such a shame. A job will be bitter if you're good and leave, but have no intentions of investing in you as a good employee while you're there.

They know someone cheaper and decent will come along

Yep, bad management 101. They make salaries the number one thing, when it's the last fucking thing that should be on a manager's mind.

They always see how much they save with lower salaries, rather than how much more they would gain with more skilled people. It makes no sense, but the former is much easier to do than the latter.

How scary was the first time you switched jobs? I'm in a similar boat, early 20s thinking about changing jobs, but the idea of it is quite daunting.

I like the idea of starting something new, so it doesn’t scare me too much but I am always paranoid I’m going to suck and get fired. So while starting new doesn’t bother me, fear of anything after the fact does.

Eh can always go both ways. I'm prob the exception but...

Majored in chem engineerin, got a job w a small company in mid 2009 right after the recession.

Currently still at company make 100% more per yr than I did back then and have also made tons more money in stock options.

Also 9 years in still love my job, which to me is most important. (That doesn't mean I don't have some days which suck that's just life).

That’s great! I would love to find a job I’m just over the moon about. Not being in love with your job is exhausting,because you never want to be there and the work is never something you want to be doing. At least for me.

At some point you need to find what you like, stop jumping, and build a bit of a career somewhere or you're going to be designated a job hopper. Not only will it become more difficult to find a job, unless you're doing something really specific and rare, managers will tend to have a shorter leash with you because they'll be wondering if those moves were people chasing you out of companies once they realized you weren't any good. Not a place you want to be. Source: recruiting manager for a big company.

I think I have a sense of the specific industry I like, so I am looking to get back into it. I left my first job in said industry only because the owner was into some shady practices behind-the-scenes and I didn't want to be a part of it, or her being sued 13 times by vendors. I did love the work, just not the place, and I thought a complete 180 change would be "nice" and really it's just "lame".

That's cool. You can really get away with more moves when you're young just by being honest and telling them you were looking for the job you wanted to turn into a career. Be careful about not bashing your former company with the shady owner in interviews and you'll be fine. Good luck!

Thanks! I definitely keep it professional when discussing why I leave. Ultimately, I do want to find a good place to be at for a while, I just haven't found it yet.

Got a wife/gf/kids?

Just a BF and two cats! We have some freedom.

Just curious what did you study in College? Currently going to school for finance and like to known other people’s plans while in school, still not really sure what I want to do yet.

Industrial Design!

I think sometimes the entertainment/modeling industry can be really bad about this. There's this myth that so many actors or musicians were "discovered," like someone just walked up to them at a Pizza Ranch and asked them to be the face of CoverGirl. People like Jennifer Lawrence seem like they just came out of nowhere and started making movies, even though she's been modeling and acting since she was a child. Someone made a comment to me once about how crazy it was that Louie CK could start doing comedy in his 40s and become so famous, not knowing that he's been trying to "make it" while working steadily for decades.

Not a lot of people talk about the years of hard work and relentless self-promotion that goes into "making it," or how even people who get famous for making a sex tape actually went through quite a bit of work getting that tape into the right hands.

No one else is going to "make" you, we all have to take control of our lives and put the work in. Unless you were born a Rockefeller or something, then you're probably good. But most of us aren't Rockefellers.

Its an easy trap to fall into. There's a constant, I'll do this once summer break hits, or once I'm done this term, or done school. Once you're out of school, there is not more goal posts to mark the passage of time.

You'll take a mediocre job 'just until I can find something better" 10 years will pass, your skills won't be up to par anymore and you'll wonder what the hell happened.

Exactly what almost happened to me. I graduated from college and started working full time at a pizza place nearby just to take a break from everything. I told myself it was only temporary and in a year I will get another job with my degree.

Fast-forward a year and I started looking for a job. No one would hire me and I guess it was because I didn't have experience and was sitting on a degree that's a year old. Luckily, I hated my field and didn't see myself during there my entire life. Fast-forward another year and I'm thinking "Jesus christ, I gotta do something fast. The job I have is nearby, it's easy, it's fun but it's not one to sustain yourself your entire life. Time to make some moves, and fast."

So, this year I'm going back to college for another degree. I don't look forward to the frugal lifestyle I'll be having again. Especially considering the money I could have been making. But these upcoming struggles will pay off when I have a career in something I actually enjoy, I hope.

So yeah, time goes by fast and no one will tell you that. Keep making moves.

I’ve been there but with no degree. I wanted to be a veterinarian but after spending my early teens working in clinics I realized I wouldn’t be happy doing it, I love the animals, it’s the owners I’d have a hard time not choking. I did the waitressing thing for years, made great money and had a great time but I didn’t want it to go on forever. Then I had my own catering business in my home country and that was doing great but it got wiped out in a tsunami and I kinda lost direction for awhile after that. By my early 30’s I was long divorced with 3 kids and no job and no degree. I decided I needed to move. The man I was dating at the time had moved to Hawaii the previous year and we were at that stage where we needed to either change our circumstances to be together or cut things off and move on. We decided to try it out. I applied to every job I could find that would support my family comfortably and had good advancement opportunities. I flew to HAWAII for a few weeks for interviews, I was just as picky in the interviews as the employers. I didn’t want to get sucked into a shit company and get stuck. I had enough saved to do it right one time only. The job that fit all of my criteria I had no experience in, in fact my understanding of the job was so far off it blows my mind to this day. Fast forward 8 years, I’ve been promoted twice (could have been farther up by now if I was open to moving but I’m not.) I married the guy I was dating, we had 2 additional children (so 5 total), he now works for the same company but in a different division. We bought a house 4 years ago. Everything worked out. It was hard, I had to fake it a lot with my job in the beginning, but I always enjoyed the work. It’s a great company. 10 years ago if someone would have told me this is what I’d be doing for a living and loving every minute of it I would have called bullshit. The money is great, the work is always changing and I’m always challenged. On top of that they always try to promote from within. I think sometimes when your in a rut and nothing feels right you’ve gotta be open. Seriously. Be open, say fuck it, and throw what you got at it. If you don’t know what you like listen to the universe. Maybe it’s trying to show you something and you keep goin “no I’m not interested...) **My only regret is that I didn’t invest in the 401k plan earlier (mostly because I didn’t understand how that stuff worked and didn’t trust it) Anyways good luck to you fam!

I'm 33 and still waiting tables in the same restaurant I got hired on at 21. At this point I'm starting to feel like suicide is my best option at improving my life.

I know a lot of people that get stuck there, if the tips are good, you will be loosing money by moving to another profession.

Among my friends we call it "The Velvet Rut." I make enough money to keep my bills paid and enjoy my time away from work, but my salary has basically been capped since 2010. I have enough flexibility that I can do things like take off to volunteer at a major film festival and attend several local/regional music festivals while picking up shifts here or there when I need to. But I've only had health insurance 1 out of the last 8 years. I have no retirement plan. I'm paying student loans on a degree I never finished that wouldn't be worth much even if I did. I'm tired of feeling stagnant, but at the same time the general advice of trying to jump jobs every 2-3 years to try to keep getting salary bumps sends me into a panic attack.

Right there with you but with hotels. I have tried to break away into other industries but it never works out and even in employee friendly markets I can't seem to land anything "decent" even with a degree. I am working on trying to fix some of that or find a lifestyle better suited to me now that I am debt free after bankruptcy, but that will take some patience, which I am hit or miss with. Still, this is an improvement over literally planning to kill myself back in October.

This. Dear god this. It needs to be higher. I’m a 29 year old dude, turning 30 later this year. I’ve had a pretty easy life. I’m white, grew up in Southern California to a well off family. We weren’t rich by any means, but we didn’t struggle.

I was an ambitious kid filled with big hopes and dreams, ‘destined’ to be something. I was an athlete who always had a full plate throughout high school, kept the fire going through college and was excited to start life after school. Fulfill my dreams and all. I worked hard to try and start my own business, but things quickly fell apart (made poor decisions with other parties who wasted my money and bastardized my ideas, but that’s another story.) After this, I owed a lot of money and to be honest was burnt out, so I told myself I’d take a ‘break’ and enjoy not working for a bit. I had a day job, but stopped pushing myself to go beyond that.

Well, 5 minutes later and it’s 5 years later. I wasted the second half of my 20s. I became out of shape. I stopped being social. I started smoking the weed a lot. I dealt with anxiety and depression because I started realizing I was wasting valuable time in my life. I developed very lazy habits which I am trying to break, but it only gets harder.

It becomes so easy to tell yourself, “I have time, I’m young! I’ll do it tomorrow.” Then you wake up years later and wonder what the fuck just happened?

“5 minutes later and it’s 5 years later”

That struck a chord. Where has my time gone? I feel like I’ve wasted so much of it.

Yeah, sitting at 33 and feel like I should be 23. I worry that one day I will blink and 20 years will have passed in that seemingly brief action.

Don't say God's name in vain!

Which god did I offend?

I'm 22 and I already feel like I fucked up my career choices.

Unless you have a felony or BCD, are on a sex offender list, and got expelled from every community college in the country, you have plenty of time.

Yeah I did this mistake for 5 straight years. Some of the biggest waste of time I've ever done.

I feel you man. Fucked up real bad after highschool spent over 5 years doing nothing. Now I'm going back regretting all of my choices. I still feel like I'm lost a lot still, but trying to get myself out of a rut. Been getting slowly better over the years. I guess.

Hey I'm in the same place as you were.

I think I need help. Could you tell me your story, kind of?

I'm sorry for not getting back to you sooner. But, to be honest, I don't really have anything I could help you with. If I couldn't figure out anything to have budged out of that in the time I've wasted. Then, I don't think I've got anything to suggest.

Hell, time to time, I just fall back into the routine. It's a struggle when you've got the feeling of pressure down your back and depression that likes to remind you of the time you've wasted over and over again so that you don't ever want to come out of it for some strange reason.

The only times I've ever gotten out of the jam, is whenever I temporarily surge through enough mental strength to progress through. I'd find something, then if something goes wrong, I just get thrown back into the slum.

"And then one day you find

ten years have got behind you

No one told you when to run

you missed the starting gun"

Reading this makes me cry. I need help.

That song really makes me think about my life.

This gives me anxiety. I'm 19 at community college and I'm really scared that I'm gonna get stuck along the way and not be able to get a career started. I know what I want to do but I'm so scared of not being able to do it and failing.

You're going to be FINE. No one has just one career anymore. Right now you should be kicking up career 1 of 4, and it should last 15-20 years. Don't worry about getting into 6 figures, or management, just focus on learning who you are as a worker. Sometimes, your second career is just the first one but in the management field. The only thing that really matters is that you save your money. When you figure that out, let me know.

You'll be fine man. You know what you want to do? That's fucking awesome, you're honestly better off than 90% of people just by that alone. I'm 26 and still have NFI what to do with my life, but you've already got a direction and that's great. Worried about failing? Sure, it's possible, but you can fail at anything. I think when you're at the end of your life, looking back on everything you've done, you would feel much worse if you hadn't taken the chance to pursue something you're passionate about. Throw yourself into it, and if it doesn't work out, pick yourself up and try again.

Ok yep, that's reassuring. Thank you for putting it into perspective.

Not trying will lead to a definite fail. Better to try and fail, than to never try at all. :)

I’ve got a bike

You can ride it if you like

I love that song

I always think about this line, and I just think: what's the point even, I'll never get around to start my life and the years are only coming.

How do I make things happen for myself when I struggle with chronic depression and generalized anxiety? I barely have the energy to do housework.

You get the right meds (and this may take a bit, but could also go really well and bring quick results), hopefully get therapy or join an anxiety group (these are cheaper than individual therapy, usually lead by a therapist, and can be helpful especially in the beginning), and then you learn to be really kind to yourself.

Trying to live life with depression and anxiety is like trying to run a race without any shoes on; you wouldn't expect a shoeless runner to make it far, yet we all think an unmedicated person with fucked-up brain chemistry should somehow achieve the same heights as those blessed with the right chemical balance.

And being kind to yourself is pretty much required if you want to develop relationships with others, and a network. You will inevitably make mistakes and faux pas (all humans do, it's normal), and your anxiety will paralyze you and prevent you from connecting further. Forgiving yourself and lifting yourself up are valuable skills that are cultivated through constant practice.

I'm working on finding the right med for me, I started on Celexa, switched to Zoloft, and am currently on Paxil. I live in a small town so the only therapists I can see are through Skype set up by the hospital and it just sort of feels impersonal to me, like I can get my thoughts across better in person if that makes sense. The therapist also doesn't speak english very well ao its a bit hard to get my thoughts across in that way as well due to the language barrier. I just feel trapped and unsure of how to proceed to getting better.

Still working on that myself, but gradual changes of thought seem to be helping me so far. Find a reasonable goal and slowly start changing your thought pattern away from "why do anything" to "maybe I can do this" to eventually "I totally want this" and along the way set up a plan as to how you can achieve that thing with steps small enough that you can accomplish something along the easy. Like right now I have a goal to research nomadic living that I am working towards. Once I get a lot of my research done, I can make solid plans to try it out for a weekend, then maybe a week. I can focus on attaining the items needed for it, checking them off one by one, slowly reaching my goal.

It is like walking to a destination far away; when looking at the whole picture it can be really fucking intimidating, but if you focus on just making that next step one after another, eventually you will find yourself at your destination.

As a 24 year old, I may not exercise as much as I should, I should probably quit smoking, I should save more, there are a million things I could do better, but this is the one thing I pride myself on. I worked fucking hard from my late teens til now and it’s just starting to pay off and is so worth it. I’m happy to get up and work because I’m doing what I want to do! To any late teens reading this, just do what you wanna do, and hammer it until you are fucking good at it, you’ll never have a better time than now before the full weight of adult life makes it harder.

I feel like I'm stuck in this slump, But don't know how to get out. I feel unfulfilled, but anything hobbywise or whatever I do that brings me joy isn't realistic for a career. How do I find what I want to do long term?

dude... this is how I feel...I'm 29 about to move to france for a job with a team that I think will be great in devops. This is the biggest change in my life so fair, but yet I'm having a hard time preparing for the job and preparing to move. I'm not sure what I'm feeling. The process also took, so long, so I felt like I was in limbo.

My former boss told me, "you have to go after what you want, no one is going to look out for your career like you will". It really stuck with me, you can't become too reliant on others to make things happen for you, even those who are on your side!

"Former boss"

My former boss said to me "don't let fear control you".

Looks like we both proved them right!

This.

I'm 28 and only just starting to get my shit together, start being pro-active while you're young enough.

Do anything and even if you find out it's not for you, at least you're fucking moving

Make your meaning.

Also, networking cannot be understated. Whether that’s in college or otherwise. Don’t burn your bridges and do your best to form genuine connections.

I’ve been offered jobs simply because a former employer liked me and told someone else about me.

Man, I hate how important networking is. I'm most of the way through college and while I haven't burned any bridges, I haven't made many connections, with peers or with profs or with potential employers. Being personable is hard.

Same and I don't know what the problem is.

yeah but coasting is so eeeeasy, and boarding... and shit i have no future, and fuck i have to start guiding my life somewhere i want it to go! :(

I'm in my early 30's and still haven't quite grasped this

I tell that to my daughter all the time. There's no prince charming coming to save her, she needs to learn how to figure shit out on her own. The only thing she has in common with Disney Princesses is an evil mother-figure.

Damn, that's... a wake-up call to me browsing reddit for the 5th hour today. Thanks man.

This! If you wait circumstances will make decisions for you and your life. Do not let this happen, make your own decisions in life.

Circumstances = years of age

"No one told you when to run; you missed the starting gun." - Pink Floyd

I met a young woman who was literally waiting for the universe to give her a sign as to what she should do with her life but didn't know what that sign would be. Refused to apply for jobs because she hadn't gotten her"sign" yet.

On the flip side, a great many people at this quandary will never find something that brings meaning to their life no matter how hard they try.

Long story short, proceed with caution but bear in mind you don't have any chance at all if you don't try.

It's sad to watch wasted potential. Brother in law has a BA in business that he has never used to gain employment. He is 33 with one child, and he lives with his parents and his child's "mother". The kid is with us as much as she can be and I have a feeling that she will be here much more as she gets older. What are you waiting for?!?!?

This one hits closest to home for me. I’m almost 24, and I recently realized that I’ve been “coasting” for the last few years. A bit of a bummer realization, makes me feel like I’ve lost a lot of valuable time in my life. Now for my cheesy anecdote: If you want something in life, start making steps towards it. Get engaged in your life, don’t live passively. Even if it seems daunting and impossible. Whether it’s professional, academic or in your personal life, you’ve got to make moves towards it.

And in the case that you DO get lucky and fall into something good. MAKE THE MOST OF IT.

This thread is /r/2meirl4meirl. Fuck this hits close to home

Adding to this, dont expect immediate results. Trying to succeed and obtaining a fulfilling career takes work, time and passion. Don't give up or quit just because you don't see results right away. The sweetest fruit takes the longest to ripen.

This is probably the hardest thing you will ever have to decide in life, because it basically effects everything else in your life. It's been my major struggle and my friends major struggle as well. Some people are lucky they know what they want to do early on, most people though have no idea and kind of just fall into something and then regret it later on.

Advice I wish I was given at around the age of 12 or 13 would have saved me alot of time and soul searching pain later on:

  1. Either plan to do an apprenticeship in a trade or go to uni to study. They are the only 2 ways to really build a solid foundation as far as a career is concerned. Even if you fail at 1 early on you can always choose the other if you catch it before 21 makes it a lot easier. (I'm not a job snob but this is more about being personally satisfied with your life descions)

  2. People will treat you like shit when you're young and inexperienced for apparently no reason. It doesn't make it right but that is just the way the work culture is so better build thick skin and learn to take shit.

  3. Don't worry if your not good at you're choosen field right away. It takes years if not decades to master some fields. Some people pick up shit quicker than others. Persistence always pays off more than being a quick learner.

Some extras:

  1. Kind of unrelated but get a hobby once you've finished your studies/apprenticeship. Individual/team sports if you haven't already spend at least a couple years getting goodish.

  2. International travel: I would highly recommend once your studies/apprenticeship are finished. Doing it before you settle down or own a home is far easier. Take the opportunity while you have it.

  3. Buy a house: Renting sucks.

I'd like to piggy back on this and include relationships. Friends, lovers, they aren't just gonna get handed to you and you gotta work to keep them.

I'm probably the only person in the world to disagree with this but I kind of want to know if I'm the only one. From elementary school to high school I did absolutely everything I was supposed to do: good grades, worked out, hung out with respectable people, no sex, no alcohol Just a all around good kid Went to college And bam Realised I was unhappy So I threw myself into a personal project got really far too Still unhappy Then finally I just gave up Got drunk with a friend smoked some weed broke up with my boyfriend who was just as a goodie two shoes as I was And just stopped caring Now I'm working a dead end job with my best friend renting a couch And I'm happier than I've ever been I have no idea if I'm broken but this idea of "achieve achieve achieve " almost killed me. Why should I care about a future that's not even guaranteed to be there?

I’ve never cared much about acheiving, as long as I can do the bare minimum and get away with it I will. I’ve been really lucky that I have supportive friends or it wouldn’t be possible but I mean, I wasn’t born to work lol

«Nobody is gonna walk up to you and hand you a meaning to your life or a fulfilling career» , - except yourself ;)

You can't walk up to yourself.

Not with that attitude.

only lebron is allowed to coast

Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day

Both in the professional sphere and the home front. Want to paint your walls? Go buy a sample and just paint up a big test splotch on the wall. Or three, and decide on a color. That splotch will annoy you and make you paint the rest. Things don't have to be perfect. In the vein of "you miss all the shots you don't take, the shittiest home improvement projects are the ones that don't exist.

Unless you’re a Baby Boomer.

Amen reverend

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Wait so is there no such thing as luck, or is luck when preparation meets opportunity? Which is it??

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It wasn't really confusing, I was just poking fun at it. I think it's a great phrase and something I guess I've always believed even if I never thought it out

Inspiration sometimes takes time and patience.

that would be dope though

Absolutely. Don’t do nothing, do SOMETHING. It will always be the better option of the two.

Your life will be richer if you can have those difficult conversations with others and even yourself.

Don’t mistake complacency with happiness. Achieve the goals you set for yourself, they don’t have to be perfect, but an eventual end game that should put you in a better place than yesterday.

To expand on this, no one is going to walk in and hand you a raise either. Jobs will exploit your unwillingness to fight for what you are due. Especially if you are non-union. Ask for what you need and jump ship if it isn't met.

I had to break up with my girlfriend because of this. I know it's a small reason but it was eating away at me and I felt as if I was carrying her around.

"You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today And then one day you find ten years have got behind you No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun."

Doing anything is better than nothing.

Wow I actually really needed that. Thank you

i know this, will it change how I act no

Conversely, thinking that because you "failed" in your 20s you're screwed and can't succeed or make up for lost time. You can, it'll just take a little more effort on your part.

And even if they do you need to build from that or it gets sad.

Glad I got that out of the way the first 3 years of my 20's. Much better outlook and work ethic now!

Why you gotta call me out like that, bro? Not cool.

Nobody is gonna walk up to you and hand you a meaning to your life or a fulfilling career.

Yeah not everyone can be born rich. Some of us need to try and work hard for years, and then realize short of whoring yourself and investing all that money in crypto and waiting 20 years, there isn't much you can do.

So true. Wish I was more cognizant of this straight outta college

I graduated a year and a half ago and still can't find someone to hire me yet, but I keep applying because life isn't meant to be a walk in the park.

This is me. Unemployed and living with parents is a nightmare. I should've never pursued my dream of sound design. I've been working towards it with no fruits

Even "real" or "safe" professions don't get you hired. Trust me, I'm in IT.

I hope you get to do sound work soon.

Good to know because I've been having thoughts about going back to school for a "safe" profession. I recently had an interview with a game studio and they were interested in my portfolio but haven't heard back in a week.

Give it another few days and send them a follow up;

https://www.themuse.com/advice/4-nonannoying-ways-to-follow-up-after-an-interview

If you want to look for a specific email for a specific person, put the full url in hunter.io.

What if you realize the thing you wanted most likely isn't going to happen? I went to school for music and now I just want to do it as a hobby but I feel like I have no options career wise.

Ever think about giving lessons? At least to make some cash and get by as you continue to figure it out. There's lots of free resources to learn other careers too.

Also, plenty of people in my office, some very high up, have an art degree or other liberal arts degree. Music is no different, you just need to convince yourself that what you have is not worthless, it's still a degree. Pick a new industry that you're interested in and apply for an entry level position. Many times they're just looking for any person to do a lot of the grunt work, but hey, it's experience! Pick up a textbook or two if you need a little more familiarity with the industry and put your newfound knowledge on your resume.

Damn. That’s exactly what I did. I guess I got lucky.

Man I know this isn’t contributing to the conversation at all but I realized this early in my life and yet I’m still fuck. I decided what I wanted to do but it’s so hard for people in the early 20’s this day an age with irresponsible parents to go to college. It’s so hard. Everyone says stop wasting my life, but I know if I could go to school or sneak into my field of work I can do something. Instead I’m working 40+ hours to survive and no where near close to affording college.

No idea where that rant came from but I still agree with your comment

Thats exactly why i went back to school I knew nothing was gonna change if i didnt

Or the opposite too. In the youngest in my family by about 8 years. When I was in middle school my siblings were graduating college. When I was getting my first job, they were moving into careers and long term housing. I felt like I was letting life pass me by by the time I graduated high school and I needed to rush to get into a dream job

This is something I just figured out about a month ago. My motivation to succeed and live a fulfilling life has changed dramatically.

In my mid 20s but I guess I'll add a bit to this regardless. I started what I thought would be a fulfilling career, one many people would love to have. I like it but it's clear I don't want to do this forever. It's a stepping stone.

This hit me really hard last week and I'm 21 so I'm glad it happened sooner rather than later.

Did this. Now I'm sad.

Took me some time in the real world post college to figure this out. I sort of just thought that if I went to college, played by the rules, treated people well, was smart, etc. things would just fall I to place. The reality is nobody gives a shit about your dreams and is just going to hand it to you because you “deserve it”. You have to literally take control of it yourself.

While I would for the most part agree with you, I was fortunate enough to have a good connection to start a good career. My opportunity literally was handed to me, but, I did have to put in the effort and walk through the door.

I can hand out meaning in life, but beware. I'm just going to tell you that dancing is awesome.

This is exactly why I don't want to be alive.

what can I really do though? i have a shitty job and im applying to new positions every week with no success. I tried applying to go back to school and havent heard anything back. i dont know what to do with my life

Having a kid before being in a committed relationship / being married and being financially prepared.

Friend of a friend had a kid and I feel bad for the little one. The mom more or less is having her mom take care of her while she does drugs. Everyone should wait til they're ready.

I have a buddy with a kid on the way with my other friend...they’re not even freaking out. Can’t tell if they’re actually preparing successfully, or if they have no idea what’s about to happen.

I didnt freak out. Not ever. I was 20 when i had my kid. I also didnt actually properly prepare. Well i did. I had everything i needed such as a cot, clothes, nappies etc i knew night feeds would be a thing. And potty training. And my boobs would be sore. That I could kiss goodbye to sleeping till noon. but i wasnt mentally prepared. Theres knowing whats going to happen. And then theres mentally preparing yourself for it. Im often ask if i plan on having any more and honestly.... no. Im too young for more kids and im 31 now.

Maybe some people handle it better than others, because if I was in his shoes, I’d be losing it day in and day out.

Yeah maybe? My daughters dad did freak out if that helps. I gave him the option though. I was all "yeah so im gonna have a kid. My door is there. Ive made my choice now you make yours" and he noped right out of there.

Also second time around i know i would freak out more. Because i know what to expect second time around.

Well that’s unfortunate.

My two friends have been hooking up for over a year, but they’re actually making an attempt to ‘date’ or make a relationship out of it now. There’s some hope, at least. They’re both owning it.

I didnt mind. I gave him the choice. Better he walk then me chase him for 18yrs.

Well thats good. Sometimes things just work out for the best and if its something they are both willing to have a go at maybe thats why he hasnt freaked out?

yep, no way to prepare mentally. It's just fuckin insane and you take it day by day. Things are pretty normal with our kiddo now (he's almost 2) but we have #2 due in a month and it's going to be back to crazy town.

At least we know what we are in for this time, but I'm still not ready and never will be.

Number 2 can be scary, but it's such a joy to watch them play together when the little one is old enough, especially when they are so close in age. I have two boys 15 months apart and they are best buddies. Everything will be alright. Best of luck to you :)

Thanks for the support! We will have 2 boys as well, hoping they will be best friends too!

Yeah everyone says they know what you are in for second time around. And thats what scares me and says im too young!

I just hope it's better than the first time around. He didn't sleep through the night ONCE until he was 14 months old!!

Every child is different. So fingers crossed for you this time around!

I know loads of people who found the second easier than the first. And then I also know loads who say the second was harder. Just remember you have been there before. You know what your doing better the second time around.

I was lucky. My child slept through from being a month old. (I say slept through. Last feed at 11pm up at 5am. Thats not enough sleep for this mummy) so I don't know what I would do if I had another that didn't sleep. At least with yourself you know you can do it and survive. You know that an extra strong coffee in the morning (or 5) will see you through till nap time. Or even better someone may have given you advice after your child started sleeping through and now you can put it into practice. You can do it. We are made of strong stuff!

I'm 21 and had a daughter a year ago. I also think this will be my only little one. So how are things now?

Things are great now! Things are always been great. Ive taken everything she has thrown at me and handled it the best way i know how and shes doing fantastic so i know i havent done badly.

I left a good paying job to have her. And im still in the stages of working jobs just because it fits in around her. But that wont last. Later today we have to sit and discuss highschools. And thats are a scary thought process. But its also another step closer to me having more time for a career.

You never know you may go on to have more. Im with someone now and have been for 2yrs. Its like having another child. But i know neither of us want more children. And thats completely fine with me.

Also ive had it a lot "dont you wish she had a play friend?" My daughter has said it to me herself "i wish i had a baby brother or sister" but then we go out to a theme park for the day and she quickly realises she cant do these things with a baby in tow.

That's good. You're trying to find high schools, meanwhile my I can't even get my daughter on a sleep schedule. And my wife and I are still trying to get through school, we definitely weren't expecting children this early in life. It good to hear from someone else with a similar story

The sleep pattern will happen. I struggled getting mine out of my bed. I did co sleeping with her. It was easier for me at the time. But you experiment and find something that works. Now she comes into my bed when shes upset or poorly. We started off with a big girls bed when she was 2. Bed time story. She loved stories and its still a big part of our bedtimes. I got her a book that would read stories to her with out me being there (one story with mum but more until you fall asleep afterwards). It made a noise when she had to turn the page. She was about 2/3 when it came to that.

Can I ask... have you used any baby products in the bath that contains lavender? It does wonders! Also she maybe a little old for it now but theres baby massage. It also helps to soothe sleep. Maybe give both a look into?

Thank you! I will def try those two options!

No problem. We still use lavender now. Johnson and johnsons do a bubble bath and lotions. Not sure where in the world you are but I'm pretty sure its available in most countries? Even I use it if im struggling to sleep!

I don’t think anyone is really truly mentally prepared. Yeah sure you know the basics and like you said, knowing is one thing but kids can really surprise you. A coworker today told me that his older son had pooped and peed all over the floor from his bedroom to the bathroom while his younger son managed to get to the blueberries, squish them and run throughout the house painting the walls. I don’t think he was ever mentally prepared for that.

Im 27 and pregnant with my second, i honestly have no idea what I was thinking when I thought having two children would be awesome. Like we are financially prepared, ive got clothes for the kid up to a 3t already (thanks first child), all the baby crap you need (and some you dont)... but i know the hell im about to put myself through. Night feedings AND a preschooler let me kiss my sanity goodbye now. Im 28 weeks tomorrow and just thanking god how long it feels like ive got left.

I have a 5 year old and a 9 month old, plus a bunch of life bullshit had happened to us since #2 was born. It's crazy, but you can do it. Big sibling loving in the little one, getting baby smiles again, there are good things to help mitigate the lack of sleep and suddenly having no down time. You'll make it. I believe in you.

I was 17 and the only reason i am successful is the fact that I had a kid and I loved the little guy so much I was unwilling to allow him to suffer because I was not ready for him. So I carpe diem that shit and worked non stop both in my career and out. Was making 50k a year at 19 years old and 60k a year at 21 and im at 80k now at 24. I'm up for another promotion so if everything goes well ill break 100k this year. Life is what we make it.

And just what in the hell do you do for a living?

Believe it or not I work at Panda Express our stores average sales are 2.2 million and my store does 25 percent profit which is very high for restaurants. I run a single store and started off washing dishes when I had just turned 17.

Exactly!

Ps..... any jobs going? Haha!

Theres always jobs going for those willing to relocate :p were opening over 100 stores a year right now so theres a lot of opportunity for jobs and promotion for those willing to dedicate a good portion of their time to the company. And its a very demanding job so we have people getting fired or quitting quiet often.

I had my first kid at 19, and while I was unprepared I was mentally prepared for what to expect. I like to I surprised everyone in my family with how well I adjusted and took care of a newborn. I was lucky they were supportive and helped me with watching him when the time came. I’m now 26 and pregnant with my second and while there does seem to be more pressure now with my sons father and I to be completely independent, we’re confident we have the state of mind to have a newborn again. Sometimes you just gotta roll with it.

They're having it together so it's a little better, best thing for them is have everything ready once the kid comes.

I’m in the exact same boat my friends are expecting a baby and they’re not even discussing it

Govt. Assistance

Won’t need it, likely, and actually, I don’t know if they’re eligible. They both make a decent amount for their age together. Just financially speaking.

A girl I work with is in that situation with her older sister. The sister got pregnant and kept it literally so she could meet men because "men love kids" but now that she has it all she does is talk about how the baby is ruining her life and her nickname for her is ugly. And the baby responds to it. She asked her 18 year old sister if she would take her because she doesn't want her anymore, so now this poor girl is talking about how she wants to get into nursing school so she can make a living and save up for a house for her and this kid. And this baby is beautiful, but all the mom does is hand her off and go into the other room to smoke weed. I have nothing against weed but your baby is 3 months old and get your shit together. She even told someone she doesn't take pictures of her because she doesn't give a shit about that. Who doesn't take pictures of their babies? It's fucked and I just feel sad for that poor baby

Fuck that's horrible, you've gotta be really messed up to call your baby ugly and be that much of a dick to her. Hope the sister gives that baby a good life.

The sister is a good girl. She's a great person but she's just so young

That's a situation where you call authorities. Neglect and calling the kid ugly and having that kid respond to it? That's child abuse.

The mother really doesn't do much of the care. It's either her sister or the grandma

I think the sister and grandma need to make a tough decision. Either they can continue having the kid being pawned off on then while the mother verbally abuses the kid, or they can look into getting the kid into a home that will love him/her. Where is the dad in this? Can he take care of kiddo?

From what I'm told, for a while the dad didn't think it was even his but recently has been coming around trying to spend time with her. The baby hasn't wanted to have anything to do with him but he seems to be trying. I'm not super filled in on the situation, but I know before she had the baby they had nothing to do with her. It's not a good situation

It's not only being ready, it's knowing if it's even right. There are three kinds of women : born mothers, cool aunts and those who should not be around children. Work out which one you are and don't blindly follow a script because you will fuck up everything.

Accidents do happen. But even if you aren’t in the best place to have a child, you should do all you can to make sure they don’t suffer for it. If you aren’t willing to step up, better to terminate or put the poor kid up for adoption.

I don't think you can accidentally not have an abortion. The child is had on purpose regardless if the conception was an accident or not.

Obviously I meant accidental conception.

Just saying the phrase "accidents happen" is kinda creepy though.

Better than the druggie mama outright neglecting the kiddo :(

True, though I can't imagine how it is for her seeing her mom throwing up in the bathroom and her grandma giving two shits about her, hope she turns out alright.

Everyone I know my age who has kids right now is someone that shouldn't have kids and this is basically the story for all of them.

there's a simple solution to this one. support planned parenthood and reproductive justice, plain and easy.

I have a friend in the same situation. Smokes a ton of weed ("I can't go with out it!"), and gets into relationships with stupid guys. The only one that wasn't stupid, she cheated on after 5 years. Because she's now with a stupid guy, her mum and baby daddy essentially have the kid (who is 6) full time. Friend spends time with the kid on weekends.

I honestly feel bad for the kid. She's such a sweet little girl and the only stability she had was the guy who got cheated on. And now she's gone from having mum around full time for 5 years to only seeing her on weekends because mum is off doing stupid shit with a stupid guy.

Better than the druggie mama outright neglecting the kiddo :(

Everyone who doesn’t take steps for that not to happen always think, “It won’t happen to me.” I did, and it happened.

I hate condoms. I despise condoms. I always use condoms. I love condoms...

I had a child at 16, I love her to pieces but I don't wish that upon anyone. I was 18 ,and while most of my friend were getting ready for college I was potty training a toddler.

When I was 21 I thought, there's no way this could happen to me again. 9 months later I had my second. I'm 23, I have a 2 year old and 7 year old and I'm a single mom. For the love of god use birth control, don't think you'll be fine just this one time.

Serious question, what made you think it wouldn't happen again? Why wouldn't it?

I was being kind of pro active with birth control like making my ex use a condom. Problem was he didn't want to use a condom, so a couple of times he would either take the condom off or lie and say he was using a condom while we were having sex. So he had cum in me several times already, including once when I was pretty sure I was ovulating.

So I thought I was infertile. I kept trying to make him use a condom but that didn't really mean anything to him.

TLDR I'm a dumbass.

That sucks. Don't know what you do now for birth control but I have an IUD and I love it. It was unpleasant getting it put in, but a few minutes of discomfort was definitely worth it for 5 years of protection and me not having to do a damn thing.

I had discomfort for like a week. Still worth 5 years of the best protection available and me not having to do a damn thing :P

I hope you teach your daughter to stand up to men like that.

Jesus, what a scumbag. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

You do realize that that's rape, right?

I do now yes.

At the time I was pretty stupid, actually I was really really stupid. We’d had already been divorced by that point. And that’s another story in itself.

But it’s in the past now and that’s how I want to keep it.

Best wishes for you and your kids. And if you’re looking for someone to join the journey, I hope they’re wise and understanding

I Don't disagree that this is wrong i just wish people didn't refer to it as rape. Rape is a horrible experience and while this is shitty it just seems to take away some of the power of that word. Sexual assault, absolutely.

As someone who's been raped (one of those including being pulled off the street and raped by three men), I absolutely disagree with you. It is rape. To say it's not trivializes the crime entirely. Which is even more wrong.

So when a girl is not on birth control and says she is, that's also rape?

If you wouldn't have fucked her otherwise, yes, actually. Reproductive coercion is a form of rape.

Probably, you'd still be on the hook for child support too

I personally answered this futher down if you are interested.

Alright they both were adults who consented to sex...

The dude was in the wrong and I definitely agree with the sexual assault charge. But why would you say its rape?

Okay. Consent to sex with me. But I will do whatever I want to you. I can do that because since you consented to one thing (vaginal sex with a condom) that means you consented to all things. I got you naked. Now you are mine and lose all agency.

word. this so much.

Just wondering if you think the inverse is also rape, where the woman tells the man she's on birth control but she's not and is purposefully trying to get pregnant against his will?

I already answered this question further down! But yes, that would also be rape. One act is agreed upon (sex with protection against pregnancy), but another act is being preformed without the knowledge of the other party.

There is actually a term for this (which includes stealthing) called rape by deception. Obviously all countries have different rape laws so it may not legally be rape everywhere. But hey, it was still legal in the US to rape your spouse until the 90s so there's a lot of catching up to do.

That definitely wouldn't be consent to do whatever they wanted.

I'm looking at it in a court of law if a condom broke could one party argue they didn't consent to that? I'm sure they went in with the consent that sex was "protected" and they wouldn't get pregnant, and now they are. Granted anytime you're having sex, there's gonna be a potential of pregnancy unless of course one person is infertile

That is actually a form of stealthing. If the condom breaks, one party is aware and doesn't tell the other party as soon as they know. That's the deception. If a condom breaks and both parties know/are told right away then there is no deception.

If he took the condom off without her knowing or lied about it, then she didn't consent to unprotected sex.

Don’t think it’s rape either, but I do agree on sexual assault. It’s horrible and I’m sorry it happened to OP, but they were both consenting adults.

The sex that happened and the sex she consented to were different things. What do we call unconsentual sex?

So taking the condom off should face the same charges? Does it have the same effect as being forced into sex?

All rapes are different. Should someone who is drugged and raped with minimal physical violence and a condom was worn be dismissed because someone else was much more violently by a stranger? Should someone who was raped, but didn't get pregnant be dismissed because other people do get pregnant? Should all men and boys who are raped be dismissed because they cannot ever get pregnant as a consequence? Should grown women who are raped be dismissed because child are raped?

Is it rape if a woman lies about being on birth control?

Yes. Unfortunately we live in a society that shames men for coming out about these kinds of things but it is rape 100%.

No. The term you are looking for is sexual assault. That is the blanket term used for sex crimes. Not rape. Ill explain it like this. There is theft, the blanket term and then there is grand theft auto, petty theft, embezzlement and so on. This is because simply calling all cases theft is confusing and unfair. Calling everything from being held down and forced to have sex to sexual misconduct rape takes away from the severity of rape. This is why we have different categories for sexual cases. Rape, statutory rape, sexual misconduct, sexual harassment. When you say he raped her people won't be like oh my god he took the condom off. They have an image and definition of what rape is. This does not fit that definition but it does fit sexual assault.

Just because you have one image of rape inside you head that doesn't mean that is the only way someone can be raped.

For many people, when you say the word rape the idea of a man as the attacker and woman as the victim immediately comes to mind. Just because that is what someone thinks doesn't mean that's the only option. Women rape men. Men rape men. Women rape women. Children are raped. This all happens. Just because it's not the most common picture doesn't mean it's not also rape. Being raped by someone you know is much more common than stranger rape, but stranger rape is somehow the picture a lot of people conjure when they think about rape. Does this mean the man who is raped by his husband wasn't really raped because that doesn't fit your narrative? That's ridiculous.

No. Not by the definition of rape in the dictionary, not as society uses the word and not from a moral perspective are they the same thing. You are simply using the word wrong and the word you are looking for is sexual assault. Im not saying all those aren't rape. I am saying taking the condom off is sexual assault, not rape.

Webster defines rape as such

"unlawful sexual activity and usually sexual intercourse carried out forcibly or under threat of injury against a person's will or with a person who is beneath a certain age or incapable of valid consent because of mental illness, mental deficiency, intoxication, unconsciousness, or deception"

Or deception.

Lying about birth control/stealthing is absolutely deception.

Society is moving forward with or without you.

Change isnt always a good thing. There are clear troubles with blurred definitions like this. Similar to the whole metoo movement. Each Hollywood case varied on severity. From Harvey Weinstein on one end to Aziz on the other. We have to look at things seperately so we can be fair and understanding. Rape its a serious sentence, should someone who took off a condom get 10 years in prison? Should they be completely ostrisized by society?

Many rapists never see the inside of a courtroom let alone are charged with a crime. If anything becomes of a report, it is typically settled in civil court, not criminal, where 10 years was never on the table. Even victims who are the perfect picture of victomhood and do everything right in the aftermath won't necessarily receive a prosecutor who wants to pick up their case. Rape is a hard crime to prove and prosecutors want to win.

Until the 90s in the US it was legal to rape your spouse. Does that sound good to you? In some states, it is still legal to marry children as young as 12 to adult spouses. Just because something is legal doesn't make it right. If you think endangering someone's health and reproductive safety is alright then that's you. That's why I am saying society is moving on without you.

You want rape to be this special crime way up on a pedestal for reasons I cannot comprehend. Being raped isn't special, it's common. Being a rapist isn't that uncommon either. Perhaps you are so against the idea because this is something you've done or something someone you love has done and you want to brush it off. I don't know. Either way, denying the gravity of the act doesn't do anyone a service. It protects the wrong people and demonizes the victims.

People not taking rape seriously is exactly why we need these distinctions. That way when a woman claims to be raped we dont have to go over the check list to see what kind of rape it was. Again as I've gone over several times and you don't seem to understand. The blanket term sexual assault versus rape. Distinctions matter.

Again I said it was sexual assault and bad but i doubt it holds the emotional impact that rape has.

People are raped and it has little to no emotional baring on them. Does that make it not rape? People are raped and it doesn't affect them until years later. Does that make it not rape? People are raped and it does affect them, but they fully recover and move in with their lives. Does that make it not rape?

You obviously have a very specific criteria of what you consider to be rape. Based on your narrative it seems to be an of age woman being raped somewhat violently by an of age man. That's probably the narrative many people have. Doesn't make it correct. Rape is a crime that is very different, there are many "types." Many different types of people of different ages, races, genders, SES, etc are all victims and perpetrators. Just because something doesn't fit your cookie cutter narrative doesn't mean it's not rape or that victims are entitled to the same help and resources of someone who had it objectively "worse."

Personally, I could say my rapes were more severe than others. I had a lot of physical injury, some permanent. Other people have no physical injury whatsoever. I would never begin to suggest that people who sustained less physical injury or none at all deserve less help being legal, medical, or psychological.

When did I ever say anything about it having to be a man or woman? You seem to build this argument you think im trying to make and arguing against that instead of arguing my actual points. You do that a lot.

I would argue absolutely. One activity is being consented to, but another is being done.

Why are you so hell bent on men not being raped? It unfortunately happens all the time. I have seen many men in my groups. Some raped by women, some raped by men.

I am simply trying to find what your definition of rape is. What is a trans woman lies about having once had a penis? Is that rape?

If someone is fully post op then they are the gender they are presenting themselves as. There is no deception.

You seem really into women raping. I have already stated before, yes, women rape. And yes, it unfortunately happens all the time.

You are putting rape on this special pedestal for reasons I cannot understand. You seem like you want it to be a special crime only a few miserable few can possibly be victim of, but that's simply not the case. Other people being raped doesn't take away from what rape is. Just like victims recovering from rape. People recovering doesn't mean the crime isn't horrible.

So if someone asks them specifically if they had a penis and they say no is it rape?

If a trans woman is fully post op then she does not have a penis.

Oh damn! Gets popcorn.

Should all men and boys who are raped be dismissed because they cannot ever get pregnant as a consequence?

Should? Of course not... but it sure as hell feels like the de facto standard.

I completely agree that men overall do not have enough resources and support available for sexual assault and domestic violence. There isn't enough support, resources, healthcare, money, etc for anyone. There isn't enough kindness either. But I completely agree, men are left out and ignored in a major way.

People fail to realize its actually hard to get pregnant. That’s why couples trying to have a kid spend months doing it and get really excited when it happens. People make the mistake of thinking oh I had unprotected sex one time while I was ovulating so I must be infertile when in reality everytime you have unprotected sex there’s only like a one in twelve chance in getting pregnant. But other than that very common misconception, none of that’s on you. That guy was a shithead.

its actually hard to get pregnant.

not for everyone

Four kids here. 25. My bad, everyone, my bad

It's just a matter of when you have unprotected sex, and there is no guarantee that even having sex during the fertile period will result in a baby. The perception gets skewed by stories of people who are always falling pregnant, leading others to think that if it doesn't happen to them they must have low fertility.

Yea exactly. Only one day of every month is a girls odds of getting pregnant from unprotected sex higher than 15%. Another 2-3 days is 15% and the rest of the month is minuscule to nonexistent.

I don’t believe this. I know somebody who’s been pregnant non stop

It depends a lot on individual fertility. Some people get pregnant more easily than others. On average though conception is fairly difficult, and most trying couples need at least a few months to conceive.

I had one night of drunken sex with my ex who lied about being on birth control and next thing I know I am 99.999 percent my daughters father. I should have had a condom but didnt like a dumbass. It turned out my daughter was the best thing to happen at the worst time in my life. 4 years later I have emergency custody hope to have permanent full custody in the next few months after a 3 year long custody case. My daughter saved me from myself and I didn't even know I needed saving at the time and now its my turn to save my daughter and keep her safe.

Good luck with getting custody of your daughter! Some states make it ridiculously difficult for fathers' to get custody.

Wow you had (have...?) a really shitty boyfriend

No dear, you weren't a dumbass, he was. He lied to you just o he could get what he wanted. Birth control should not only be required from the woman but from the man as well.

If you couldn't afford to take care of another kid and it was via some scumbag, why would you decide to keep it? Doesn't that just double down on every problem you were having?

I live in northwest Florida but at the time I was living in Alabama, which is all I need to say about that. Also not only was it extremely difficult, his entire family along with my family put a lot of pressure on me to keep her.

I love her to death and I can’t imagine life without her but being in that part of the country and being as ignorant as I was, makes it very difficult to get an abortion.

If only they made birth control for women.

If only birth control pills were free.

As free as condoms that she made her ex use.

Condoms are dirt-cheap compared to the pill though.

Why should it be free? Serious question. Edit: dumb to downvote and not even answer the question.

Most of the arguments for free birth control are that the pill is ridiculously cheap to bulk manufacture, and that better family planning is better for society as a whole. It could be an effective way of helping break the cycle of poverty, at least in theory.

I'm with you. Not having sex costs nothing. I don't want to pay for the consequences of you not keeping it in your pants. If I wanted to pay for kids, I'd have had a few.

Why did you not go on the pill?

I met a college girl who told me she "just believed she wouldn't get pregnant." perfectly healthy, regular periods. But figured it would be fine for some magical reason. Was at the time with some guy who had several children already but he'd sold her on the pull out method. I still cry.

I knew a girl like that once (I want to stress that I was not involved with her). Kept insisting she couldn't get pregnant. Finally I asked her why. Her answer was that she hadn't had her period yet. She was 18, so that seemed kind of weird. It turned out, she meant she missed her period.

I guess the college girl used the same magical logic to remove the cum. May I ask. Did she get pregnant?

statistics show that teenage mothers have a second kid within years of the first

Congrats on your two little ones. I have two kids also, but I had them in a committed relationship with the woman I love at a time when we were financially capable of handling it. While I love being a parent and have no regrets, having a third is my greatest fear. I can't imagine what it's like having two without a partner.

I'm extremely atheist but every month I pray that my wife will bleed and the fear of impregnating her affects my ability to perform sexually which is not an issue I've ever had. I am counting down the months until I have enough time off to get a vasectomy.

Then why, with all due respect, is your wife not on the Pill?

Valid question. She is hyper-sensitive to hormones. Like, big-time! She's having an IUD inserted soon. The copper one that doesn't use hormones because the hormonal IUD she tried fucked her up like crazy.

Aieeeee, I've had a couple friends react to the hormone IUD like that. Be safe, take care of her, and have babies when you want 'em!

Why didn't you consider an abortion? Especially at 16?

Related: getting married

Late 20s maybe. Early 20s I'd strongly urge against it. Even if you've been dating since freshman year you're both at the point where you're going to do the most changing as people. No guarantee you will change in the same way and go the same direction.

Plus you're less likely to know what to look for in a long-term relationship in the first place.

I grew up in a smallish town and most of the people I grew up with saw no real future beyond "get a job, find someone, get married & have kids." Most of them were either married or with child by 22 (and that's being generous); I legitimately don't know a single one of them that is the least bit happy with their life and most of them are divorced. The ones that waited until 25+ have fared much better.

Of course on the flip side, here I am 34 years old and wondering if any woman will ever want to do more than stay the night. I stayed single, had all kinds of adventures, and I'm probably just as miserable as those married-too-soon kids.

LIFE IS FUN.

Boy, this hits me. Am female, now in my 30s, had all kinds of adventure in my 20s, still single (had a few longer-term relationships but am now longer-term single) and not entirely unhappy about it, but definitely am looking around at all the couples I see married/getting married and wondering what the heck I'm doing.

Do not want kids, though, so luckily that particular anxiety is off my shoulders. I can only imagine what my single lady friends who do want kids are feeling.

Gleiser, meet Miikro, Miikro meet Gleiser. #RedditMatchmakingService

Sounds like a bad ass sounding couple!

I can only imagine what my single lady friends who do want kids are feeling.

TIME IS RUNNING OUT. SHIT. SHIT.

is off my shoulders.

you wanted kids at one point? luckily, pets are pretty close to having a kid

Honestly there is no winning, They are two halves of a whole. It’s just all about balance and understanding that just like a relationship, you can have a bad single life.

Indeed, and this is what I was trying to get at. Ultimately, I think I'll be fine once I make some changes in my life but there is no guaranteed pass to happiness. You can put down roots and do what your small town family has programmed you to to since childhood, or you can travel the country trying to be a rock star and neither path may work out; hell, both these kids could end up working at the same GameStop 15 years down the line.

You’ll be fine. You’ve lived your life instead of putting t on the back burner. 34 isn’t old at all, it’s when shit starts to get good.

Unless you're a woman, and then everyone is shaming you for being single and/or questioning what's wrong with you, and reminding you that your biological clock is ticking loudly.

Thankfully plenty of women don’t want kids, so fuck what other people think

And what about those who do? Then it doesn't feel so nice and free to be 34 and single and constantly asked when you're going to settle down. Major gender split here.

ugh that's a whole other situation for men, at least for me. Dating women is becoming increasingly stressful the deeper into the 30's they get if they want kids. I very much want kids, but I also need a couple years to let the crazy come out and make sure it matches my crazy before that happens. It's like interviewing for a corporate job from the first date, my last few relationships have been cut real short because of that.

But then on the flip side, dating women in their 30's who DON'T want kids is like chill bro I'm not going out drinking on a Tuesday...I've got work early I'm trying to save up to have a family one day.

Such a weird time in life to be single.

Well...thirties is an age where biological kids have to happen sooner rather than later. It's kind of unfair that even though you have also put off having kids until your thirties, you still want to wait more years, even though the woman (maybe) can't wait. I totally understand what you mean about not wanting to rush things, but also, it's totally reasonable for a woman not to want to wait so long that she may well not be able to have kids at all. the biological clock is truly HORRIBLE. It's like a cruel joke that financially and emotionally our entire generation is about ten years behind where we should be (at least that's how it is in Europe) but our bodies never got the memo.

I was left pawning an engagement ring a couple years back, had the white picket fence and venue reserved and planned on being a dad by now (I'm not yet 30, just tend to date older). I very, very much want kids ASAP, I'm speaking to the length of the relationship itself.

I'm the product of two 30-somethings who overlooked important aspects of their relationship and rushed to bring children into the world because "the clock was ticking", and to be honest I'd rather just not have kids than put them through what I went through. I don't think it's completely unreasonable to want a fully vetted relationship before creating a life which depends on that relationship for it's development and success in this world, but a lot of people take that sentiment as me being selfish as a guy because the woman is the one with the ticking clock. It is what it is, worst case I'll be hiring a surrogate in 10 years because it's nearly impossible for a single male to adopt anywhere. I just think that whole "but I wanna be a mommy/daddy so baddddddd" is extremely selfish, and the child's well being should be paramount to anything you want as the parent.

That's interesting. I've tended to date a little younger over the past couple of years. I find guys in their late twenties much better partners then guys my own age, early thirties. But most of them want to live more before settling down.

I totally understand your reticence to repeat your parents' mistake. It is worth pointed out that younger parents are also totally capable of rushing things without thinking them through. My parents had me in their early-mid twenties before they'd finished growing up themselves, and their lack of maturity was always an issue. They were fine with all the practical stuff, but lacked the emotional maturity of actually having experienced life and worked through shit.

I agree with vetting the relationship first, which is why I'm still childless. I came out of a 2+ year relationship a few months back because I felt nowhere near secure enough on it to create a new life. I find that as I get older, though, I become more aware of what I actually want. if I move faster next time, it's just as likely to be that I feel that it's right and don't want to waste time for the sake of it rather than panicking about my age.

I'm in a pretty similar boat. Despite what people want you to think, birth control does effect women outside of not getting pregnant. Of course you're not going to want children if your body always thinks it's pregnant. It's super important to vet for maternal instincts. And that takes time. I honestly think we would have better luck looking at the religious conservative women for a better chance at a happy family

I haven't dated a woman on birth control in a few years to be honest, but I don't think there's any question birth control affects women's emotional state is there? It's pretty serious hormones...I know a couple friends who had to switch birth control because they literally woke up one day and just didn't like their partner. Back to normal when they went to a different type.

I will say in my experience that religious folks are the ones that want to commit the quickest and are more willing to overlook serious compatibility flaws... so be careful with that one. And it's probably not a great idea to mention "vetting maternal instincts" to any woman you're trying to date, that could go real wrong real fast.

There is no question that it affects emotional states. But I'm being downvoted because nowadays science and fact are an unpopular thing with leftists.

I don't say that I'm looking for maternal instincts, but you bet I'm looking for them. It's tough nowadays. There's a lot of narcissism going around. But I am hopeful and optimistic.

Yep. Pretty much. But fuck them. They can go pop out pineapples from their urethras! Pretty sure everyone who’s currently childfree isn’t complaining about having money because they don’t have a kid. Right? lol

I have to agree. I got married when I was young 20s and was divorced a year later. S.all religious town and getting married is what I was supposed to do. Made some big mistakes after that and it's taken me 10 years to get things back together. The good news is to be do get back together. I now have a good job I enjoy and am remarried to a women that is my partner is everything. Never give up that things can and will happen if you work towards it

I'm 30, don't plan on having my own kids and adopting instead. Not one guy I've met values that plan or me once they find out I won't get pregnant. So I'll be single mom. Yay

Just some hope for you. My uncle was 55 when he found his girl (45) online through a matchmaking site. I didn't know if he would ever find someone but he did. Shes an awesome aunt and a great person as well. Just know that there is hope so don't give up.

you need to move.

But you have options.

Of course on the flip side, here I am 34 years old and wondering if any woman will ever want to do more than stay the night. I stayed single, had all kinds of adventures, and I'm probably just as miserable as those married-too-soon kids.

Yeah, I'm 27 and come to realize I do not want this. I never settled down with the mother of my child, despite numerous and probably stupid efforts. Seriously though, I've come to hate being away from them.

A bunch of bullshit is a fair price to be around those who you love and love you back. I know marrage gets a bad rap, and too many people just shrug it off or nope out of it. If it's taken seriously though, yeah it'll be hard as fuck sometimes but so worth it IMO.

Have a kid at 22? You're 40 when they move out. Hell, I can see 40 from where I am (almost 37), but my youngest is 5.

If you don't want kids, 34 is young for finding your life partner. If you want kids and are female, it might be a little bit stressful for biological reasons.

Tend to agree. I know a couple people who did it. I’m 26, and I haven’t seen any divorces yet, but I guess we’ll see. I feel like a lot of them are rushed.

Ha, wait until you're in your 30s!

Source: Am in my 30s, went to a friend's 2nd wedding last weekend.

Oh, I’m sure. Not saying anyone is actually looking forward to it, but come on, some of the people you know just rushed into it just for the sake of putting a label on their relationship. Or because it was the ‘cool’ thing to do.

I'm 22 and engaged but we have nothing near a wedding date set. It is kind of like, well we're definitely more than just dating. But we both have student loans and know we're still young af so we'll probably be engaged for a very long time.

I just turned 50 and have a number of friends from high school that have adult children and have never mentioned a spouse - as in "they went away a long long time ago"

Wait until your 40s!

Except this time they’re not rushing into new relationships...usually...so no subsequent weddings to attend.

Same. Someone whom I was close to is on her second marriage with two kids, and absolutely hates her life. The ex that she dumped I’m still really close with and just met his fiancée, they travel frequently and are planning to go across the world on motorcycles.

Let’s just say my friend wasn’t too thrilled her ex moved on with someone awesome and is living the life she wanted, but didn’t want to be patient with the timeline and thought he was a loser for working three jobs to get by. He makes bank now. So that has been interesting to witness. He’s also planning his wedding and inviting lots of mutual friends to party down in NoLa.

My friends are lucky I went to their first weddings, they certainly aren't getting two out of me lol.

My girlfriends brother got married to his girl a year ago. They were both 25 and had been together for 8 years. They just broke up. Good career, just bought a house, a dog and then booom.

Such an outlier. You'd think after that amount of time, you'd be fairly certain you were good to go. That's sad to hear. I guess it's better sooner rather than later through, when you've both had a kid or two, made a ton of money together while married, had more assets and what not...I don't know, maybe that's the only silver lining?

Such an outlier.

Not at all. Those who marry under 25 are statistically more likely to divorce than those who marry older than 25. Even having dated many years.

We change a lot in our early 20s and not always in the same way as our partner. And at that age one may have it in their head that marriages are magic and should be love and lollipops all the time and take no work to ensure continued success, so when those changes happen they fall apart.

I know right. He’s from England as well where the pressure is really on to own a house and get married. But It’s a chock to the whole family. They were the good ones you know. Me and my girlfriend have been traveling the world for the past 4 years and we’re always asked when we were gonna do all the grown up stuff. They had it all figured out and now this. They have to sell the house, have the dog every second week or whatever, but I guess the job is still there. No breakup can ever take my memories away from me tho. I’m sad for them but a bit pleased that a perfect life isn’t always that perfect.

I'm close to the same age and have seen several of my peers already get divorced. One got married, divorced, realized she was a lesbian and married a woman. I think it's good to wait a bit until you know more about yourself.

29 and already seen several in my friend group and extended network. Some friend are now on 2nd marriages

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Yeah, my town isn’t really red neck or anything like that. I’m also a guy and don’t have like 2,000 Facebook friends, so I’ve probably seen less than most girls for example.

I have a fair amount of friends that have gotten divorced (really sucks, but some of them we saw coming a mile away). Most of them aren’t the ones who got married young, they’re the ones who started getting older and desperate and married someone who obviously wasn’t right for them.

Getting married in your early twenties is fine. Just don't load on the responsibilities like kids, mortgage etc. until you're older.

I met my husband at 19, married him at 23 and we've been together 32 years now.

I got married at 23. Am now almost 31 and still going strong. Was at a party last weekend and everyone there suddenly realized how long we'd been together and thought it was adorable. And then I realized all of them have had failed marriages or are on marriage 2, 3...

Got married at 24, now 35, things still great. DINK (double income no kids) 4 life

Disagree. Get married when you find the right person. Plenty of people are mature enough to figure that out in their 20s. If you're unsure, don't. I got married at 28, but if I'd met my wife earlier, I'd have married her earlier. Don't worry about your age, worry about finding the right person.

But on the other side of the coin, dating isn't exactly great once you get to 30ish and everyone is jaded and has all kinds of baggage. I had the worst of both worlds. Wasted my entire twenties dating the same guy (crippling my personal growth) and then broke up when I was 29. I've spent the past few years travelling and picking up hobbies and thinking about me, and basically doing all the shit I should have done ten years ago. Hard to know what to advise in this situation.

My husband and I were engaged for nearly three years, and I’m so glad we had that time before actually marrying. We are ~26 now, and while our personalities haven’t changed that much in the last 5 years, we have gone through some pretty big hardships and huge times of stress. Finding out if we could survive together through really hard times was so important, and I’m so glad we went through it, as shitty as it was at the time. We are a lot more confident in our relationship, and are more mature as a couple.

This is what I was going to say. Late 20’s is fine IMO. Early 20’s....no sir. Not that it can’t work out, but I think it’s rare. I changed drastically between 20-24. Man if you could see the guys I was dating. And I’ve always been fairly mature and wanting to hang out with people much older than me.

I so wish I could convince my sister of this. My sister is hoping to marry a guy she met freshman year of college (she’s about to graduate). They’ve got all these engagement plans and I keep hinting about waiting.

Guess what the magic of waiting is? You can still keep dating and get engaged at 25! At 27! At 30! If the marriage was going to work out, you’ll still be dating by then!

I dunno, everyone is different. My husband and I got together when we were 17, married at 22. We're both now 27 and still going strong, hoping to start a family. I honestly couldn't imagine my life without him.

Statistically, you're more likely to get divorced when you marry young which is why I said I strongly urge against it (not outright "ban" it).

http://maselliwarren.com/2014/03/20/divorce-rates-increase-youre-25/

You can get married at 17 or 70, but if you don't actively work at it, it will fail. A good marriage is not a passive activity.

Absolutely! And the older you are the more likely you will be to understand that. Not that everyone learns this lesson or that some don't learn it younger.

It's a matter of maturity and that typically (though not always) comes with age.

Exactly. Thank you

I agree. It takes several years to even know what adult life looks like. Just because a relationship works in college doesn't mean that it will in the "real" world.

May I ask what you mean by this? In college you're living out of home, paying rent and bills, making your own food, and dealing with a full time work/study load. Am I in for a rude shock next year or something?

Nah, it's just different stages of life. I read once that childhood through college is like being in a river. It's a set course and you're headed somewhere. Adulthood is like a pond, suddenly everything it stops and you have to set your own course. It's jarring.

Not saying one is better or harder than the other, they're just totally different. For the record I enjoy adult life way better than college, which is the opposite of what everyone told me would happen.

Related: getting divorced

Got married at 21, divorce came 3 years later. It sucked; broke me emotionally. We didn’t have money or kids, so those aspects weren’t the bother that so many of my friends [later] had to deal with. Divorce is rough, even when done politely.

Instead of having the raging 20s, I was sad and bitter for a lot of it. You make poorer life decisions when depressed. I could’ve done so much more. Life went on and I managed to salvage some of my twenties.

Just a word for OP. Your 30s are awesome. You’re old enough to have your head on your shoulders but young enough to still do things.

Getting married without realizing it takes work and maturity to handle a marriage. Getting married at 24 or 25 isn’t necessarily a mistake- but getting married at 24 and expecting life to always be the same is the big mistake

This is the conventional thinking among college grads and those who are upper middle class.

But ... I married at 19 to a guy I'd been dating since i was 15 - we're still together 32 years later. Sure you change. But if you find the one then you change together and deal with what happens when it happens.

The conventional thinking is that you should wait to have kids at least until your 30s. I didn't do that either. I was 22 when I had my daughter. She moved out of state with family at 18 and I was free at 40. My friends who are my age and still parenting young children are struggling. You have more energy when you're young. Less money though. We had very little money - my husband worked two jobs and we paid for our own college because we were from broke ass families.

It's possible. Sure, it's hard. But like I said, don't dismiss the one just because you are young.

Yeah, I got married at 18 (my husband was 21). We met when I was 15. Been married 6 years and to be honest neither of us has changed a whole lot. Been through a crap ton, yes. Grown, matured, yes. But fundamentally we are the same people we were 6, 7, 8 years ago.

I wouldn’t change a thing. His grandmother said “when you know, you know” and she was just so right. There was never a doubt in my mind that he was the person I wanted to be with forever. And both of us are kind of all or nothing people, so if either had hesitated then we probably wouldn’t have stayed together. My thoughts were, why wait when we can get started on our lives together?

We’ve been through so many things since then, some extremely hard things. Deaths, job losses, financial problems, family drama, sickness, moves. All worth it. And I’m glad I didn’t let the one slip by just because some people thought we weren’t ready.

But what if you make a mistake? I'm 18 and have dated a few girls, and most of them were girls I thought were "the one" but I ended up not liking them a few months later.

Well we were together for four years before we got married.

And the other person has to feel the same way.

I'm happy that things worked out for you!

I live in the south and I'd say 50% (pulling that out of my ass) of the people I grew up with are married by 23.

The commonality is that they all go to this huge popular church down here and my theory is that they think this person they've known for 6 months has been ordained to marry them by God but the can't fuck till marriage. The 20 year old repressed sex drive is a powerful thing.

I got married when I was 23 and he was 32. He was in the Army and I was a mess. He deployed before we got married, so we didn't really spend a lot of time together.

The divorce will be final in a couple of months. I just turned 30.

Just to provide a counter-point: I got married at 22. My wife and I will celebrate our 8th anniversary in June. She's been with me since the very beginning of my adult life. There definitely was no guarantee that things would work out (nor is there now) but I feel like I have the kind of relationship with her that can only be built through growing together as people. I was recently diagnosed with a pretty serious chronic illness, and she's been at my side helping without a thought. Yes, getting married young just because "that's what people do" is stupid, but on the other hand there's a chance you could have something amazing in your life that you can't get any other way.

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My parents knew each other for 6 months before they got married. Their 40th anniversary is May 6th - 05/06/78.

We're 4 months in and we're tying the knot soon. I just can't help but feel I've found my soulmate. We are best friends and l couldn't imagine my life without her. Everyone else says wait but all kinds of people get divorced so it doesn't matter. Were happy and that's all that matters.

Whats the number one tip you have?

Whats the number one tip you have?

Discuss key issues that are "dealbreakers" before tying the knot:

  • How will we handle finances?

  • Will we have children? How many? Who will take care of them? How will we discipline them?

  • Think about how you argue and how they argue. Is it healthy? Do either/both of you seek to understand or just win?

Not a bad idea to talk to a marriage counselor, too. It will bring up things you didn't even think to ask (unknown unknowns) and give you a solid foundation.

I didn't get married until I was 30, but was committed to my gal from when I was 20. She was almost 18. I thought we were good waiting so long, being smart about it. 2 1/2 later she tells me she's over it. Sometimes even when you think you're growing together, you grow apart. She's in England now visiting her boyfriend, our divorce will be final at the end of May. Divorce is shitty, I don't recommend it. Be smart kids.

I strongly advocate waiting until at least late 20s.

I'm 29, my fiance is 30. Even just 5 years ago, I was completely incapable of maintaining an intimate relationship.

It took me quitting drinking, putting myself into therapy, and hours of hours of vulnerable, scary conversations to get me to here even.

20s are a great time to be an asshat. Fuck up a bit, because it's fun and you find out what hurts. Gives you a great starting point on what not to do. Try not to do that to others.

Totally agree! My husband and I have been together since we were 19, just got married last year at 27. If you plan on being together forever anyway, what’s the point of rushing it. Take your time to make sure you both want the same thing out of life. My husband and I lucky in that we’ve grown together over the past 9 years.

On the flip side, I had a friend get married at 21 to a guy she met in HS and was divorced in less than a year.

Obviously foresight is difficult in relationships but I think people should wait until they are at least 25.

I’m going to go unpopular opinion on this one and say that I think this is extremely situational. My wife and I first started dated in 8th grade. We were both children of bad situations and forced to mature very quickly. We decided to get married at 18. Fresh out of high school.

By this point we had lived together roughly a year. And dated for about 4-5 years. We knew what we wanted. We understood the commitment and the sacrifices. We also understood that we’d do a lot of growing in those years. We didn’t know exactly who we were. Nor what we wanted to be. But we did know we loved each other and wanted to take on whatever happened together.

We had some tough spots (as all relationships will). But for the majority of our marriage we have had nothing but joy in one another. We decided to have kids a year or so into marriage. Another kid 2 years after. I’ve been successful in my career. We’ve both been college educated. My wife is a fantastic mother. And on track to be where she wants to be in her career as well. We own a house. Live comfortably. Have good reliable cars. Etc.

So I wouldn’t strongly urge against it. I would however say to assess your own relationship and your own commitment to one another. Do not jump into marriage. Don’t do it as a last resort. Or just because it’s something you’re supposed to do. Take your time with it. But if you love one another, and you know what the sacrifice entails, and you’re willing to tough out the hard times for one another. Absolutely go for it. Because at the end of the road, if you’ve both played it right; you will have a love and relationship that you truly couldn’t imagine being without. One that spawns happiness and fulfillment, and many many things in-between.

Tldr: Make your own decisions. Don’t live based off blanket statements. Be someone who can assess your own situation and make intelligent decisions based on your own experiences / relationship. Do not by any means make that decision off a whim though.

What about late teens? (me)

The post was specifically about their 20s

Obviously if someone shouldn't marry in early 20's they shouldn't even earlier

I can attest to this. 30 and in the midst of a divorce. We got married at 23 and while some good did come of it ultimately it was not the right choice.

I am 23 and celebrated my first wedding anniversary this month. I felt no pressure to get married early (and was actually quite prepared for some backlash from my family and friends, since neither of my parents ever married and my friends were all focused on dating and building their careers). My relationship with my husband is just a priority for me, but I think it's important to note that this is something that happened organically and wasn't a societal or familial expectation, or forced on me at all. I'm right where I want to be in life, and we're expecting a little one in November. I think people are ready for things at different ages, and people just have different priorities. I can't say that our marriage will always be perfect, but getting married in my early 20s was right for me (and for my husband, getting married in his late 20s was right for him).

I actually went to a wedding recently of two of my husband's friends in their 30s who quite clearly married out of an urgent need to procreate at some point in the near future, who have barely anything in common and seemingly little connection or fondness for each other. To me, my relationship feels far less rushed than theirs!

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Yes! Although in my opinion be married, and be older (late 20’s). I know a girl from HS who married her HS sweetheart and she now has 3 kids (she’s 25 or 26?). They seem happy, but I know for sure they are completely flat broke. And I keep thinking that if they just waited, their lives would be so different. The first one was unexpected, but the second two were planned.

You could wait and be able to get a decent job first, save some money, maybe even put your kids through college one day?! It will significantly improve the lives of your kids when they’re older.

Edit to add: It just feels like it’s not really fair to brush that off and say “well we’re in love, we want to start a family!” You’re creating an actual person and you care more about your early 20-something priorities than the wellbeing of your child down the road.

Funny. That’s why I worded it the way I did. I generally think it’s best to be married, but I figured I’d get barraged with ”I had a kid before marriage, what are you trying to say?!”

Not always, but it's very common.

Source: had my son when I was 18 & a high school drop out. Dad isn't in the picture, parents help a bit, got subsidized daycare by being a full time student. 22 now and have completed a diploma, am almost finished a professional certificate, and have a 51k salary job in my field and specialty lined up for May. Of course, it all depends on the person's willpower and values. I dedicated every moment to improvement to make up for having been a hs drop out and teen single mom. 3.5 years later, and I'm pretty much set for success before I've even turned 23.

Key words of advice: use contraceptives. Stay in school. Find your field of passion. Go after the jobs you want but are worried you wont get, bc sometimes your attitude/behaviour makes up for lack of experience (i.e. school but no work experience). Don't spend money on stupid shit. Don't do drugs.

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This is my logic too. My entire family basically has always suffered from exactly what you’re describing, and I don’t know why anyone wants that to continue. I’m going to put a stop to that trend.

Have a friend who said she intends to have 6 children total, starting when she turns 20. She said this 15 minutes after saying it was time she leaves her boyfriend... and then was angry and appalled when I said that was a moronic decision because there's no way she'll have enough time to meet and get to know someone let alone the right someone.

Damn, this (almost) hits home. My friend recently found out she was pregnant after having only been with her boyfriend for a short time. I'm quite worried for her; I'm almost certain she doesn't actually want to have a child yet, but she's trying to make the best of the situation even though she can't afford a kid and hasn't been able to fully explore the relationship she's in. I'm trying to be as emotionally supportive as possible, which I guess is all I can do for her now.

Both of my friends who’s kid is due in October haven’t really changed. Aside from her not drinking ever obviously, they both are still the same people. The first trimester just ended though, so we’ve got some time to go. It’s almost odd, I’d think they would be rushing around to prepare and what not.

I’ve seen a lot of my old friends from high school already on their 2nd or 3rd kid and they have different dads. Their excuse is they’re already starting a family. Yea starting a family when you don’t have a college education or a decent job and still living with your mom isn’t starting a family. It’s just struggling.

Mum is that you?

7 kids and she didnt learn that lesson

I agree. I’m 23 with a toddler, and now I have the added financial hardship of paying for a divorce. I’m not gonna lie, there are times where I wish I’d just never met my ex-husband.

Also - HAVE SEX BEFORE YOU GET MARRIED.

Sexual relations are a vital part of a healthy relationship, so it's really important for the two of you to understand how you relate in the bedroom.

Exactly! I knew a few kids from high school who rushed into marriage because it was the only way they could have sex without it being a "scandal". That's a big commitment to make over sex. Like I've said many times, you take a car out for a test drive before you buy it, right?

Me and my (now) fiancee found out we were pregnant literally 2 weeks after I had graduated from college. We had only been dating for roughly 5 months when we found out. I had just moved in with her and was gearing up for a 18 week unpaid internship.

Long story short, I had to cancel my internship plans and get ready to help bring a child into the world. 4 months of living with family (rent free, thankfully), waiting tables until I found a better job, working new job while waiting tables, commuting an hour every day for a month for better job; all that hard work so I could get us a nice rental house in the town with the good job and get us financially ready for a child.

Two years later, we're engaged, bought a house, working a job where my fiancee can stay at home, and have an amazing 15 month old daughter. I feel so lucky to be in the situation I'm in, because I know people who worked harder than me and gave up more, but are still struggling to make ends meet and/or are dealing with broken relationships.

TL;DR: Wear a Damn condom unless you're ready to have a baby or ready to work your ass off

I already work like 65 hours a week, and I know I’d still struggle.

I'm so thankful that I live in Oklahoma where cost of living is cheap. Anywhere else, I'd feel like I'd be in trouble

Fuck, I’m 36, been married for 5 years, together for 10, we own a home, have a combined income of over $200k and I STILL wonder we’re even remotely ready to have this kid in two weeks...

You’re probably wayyyy better off than most. Sounds like you two have your shit figured out! I’m sure it’s nerve racking, but it could always be worse. And family (usually) always helps out too. In my family anyway.

Ha, thanks. I think we’ll be ok. I’d be scared if we weren’t a little scared.

I can say my kid is the best thing that’s ever happened to me and i love her more than i knew was possible to love someone, But i can also acknowledge our situation and life is harder because of the circumstances. Seems to me a lot of moms take more offense to this statement when it’s not an either or

This is what got me. Im 24 and married with 2 children living with my parents and trying to finish school.

Graduate high school, be married before you have kids, and holding a job are the 3 most important things to do to stay out of poverty. At least according to the Brookings Institution when they said only 2% of people that followed those rules remain in poverty.

I had a kid before I was in a relationship or married and i feel like she's the reason I am as responsible as I am. Who knows what I would have gotten into in the last 16 years if I didn't have her.

Sometimes it works out for the better! I do know one girl who's 25 now, she had a kid at 18, and she actually does incredibly well for herself, is super fit and they seem to genuinely have a good time together. It's like one of those people you see on social media who has the perfect life. But she obviously worked quite hard for it.

The default position should be not having kids. Get as prepared as you can (it’s all relative) then make the decision.

I knew some people who were in a toxic ass relationship. They thought having a kid would bring them closer. Let's just say it ended poorly.

I feel like an adult now because my husband and I are not freaking out about having a kid. It’s a very strange feeling (both being pregnant and being ready for a kid, haha).

I know a person who had a kid recently, and she's 24 but with no stability in life. She has always wanted a kid, and it seems like she's just treating having a kid like having a pet dog or something.

I really wonder what's in store for the future of those people. It seems to work out sometimes, and it always worked out in history.. Though most people now days seem to want to wait till they have a stable lifestyle and end up having kids in their mid to late 30's..

I agree that it’s not necessarily something to strive for, but I had a kid at 23 and it was the reality check I needed to get my life back on track. It’s been really hard at times and I‘ve sometimes grieved the loss of my carefree youth, but I truly feel that having my son was very grounding and (for lack of a less cheesy expression) saved me. Before getting pregnant with him, I’d gone from being a high achieving A+ student to dropping out of school as a substance abusing train wreck with unmanaged major mental health problems. When I found out I was pregnant, I realised that I had to get my shit together because this little person didn’t deserve to be brought into a shitty situation through no fault of their own.

I’m 29 now and it’s been tough at times, but my life is so much better. I finished my degree at the top of my class and am now doing grad studies at my first choice institute. I admittedly still struggle with depression, but I recovered from anorexia/bulimia and I no longer self-harm or self-medicate myself into oblivion. I don’t think I would’ve made the necessary changes to get to where I am without having someone else to do it for. So, yeah... not necessarily something to aim for... but in some circumstances it can be a positive, grounding experience.

Add to this a dog. I know dogs are a good way to attract people, however it can be pretty consuming.

The main reason I don't have one now, haha. I work two jobs. There's no way that would work.

Due to Spez attempting to censor the internet I am leaving this site.

I got called ‘really insensitive’ and ‘an asshole’ for saying that maybe a year or so ago on here, lol.

Due to Spez attempting to censor the internet I am leaving this site.

I agree with some parts, don't agree with all of it though. Had a kid at 19, he's 2 and a half now. And he's super happy with his little life, he never goes without anything he wants or needs.

I wasn't ready at all, I'll admit that and take it with stride.

I was in a relationship that was rocky and it ended, but his Mother and I have had no issues with him a year after breaking up - we have 50/50 care and no dramas with it. I have a girlfriend and my little one has no problems, and neither does my ex with that at all.

Financially - it did nothing but drive me. I had no will or drive to do anything successful until I had my young one. It drove me into an industry I really enjoy and I make plenty now and have my own house, car, job, etc. I dont rely on anyone else financially and haven't found myself in a financial rut in two years, and I still have enough left over to drink with friends if I ever get a night alone without my little one being there.

The hardest part was losing friends of mine who weren't patient enough with me skipping parties and nights out to spend time with my son.

I think the honest truth is you shouldn't have a kid unless you're prepared to mature and adapt to the fact that it's not all about you after the baby is born.

how is this not the number one answer?

RedditYouTubeception

you forgot being psychological prepared. by far the most important part.

A friend of mine is nearing retirement and still recovering financially from having a kid at 19. She never finished college and never really had a chance to make a career for herself. Working one random low wage job after another her whole life. She's never been able to get her feet planted firmly anywhere. Moving from one shitty apartment to another. Just when it seems like things are looking up her transmission will die on her car and she's back in a hole. There is no safety net. If the dad stuck around she might have stood a chance. The last 5 years or so have been the best. Her daughter and granddaughter moved out and she's worked the same job so she's been earning more.

How is this so far down?!?!

My mother got knocked up with me in college after her fiance left her, and though she tried, I can't help but think how much better her life would have been. My younger sister was born seven years after I was and the differences between our childhoods was night and day.

Advice my mom always gives me: “You’ll never be financially prepared for a child.”

I got married at the age of 44 and fathered a son at 45. I’m not recommending this. but holy shit if I had a child in my 20’s or 30’s it would of been a disaster. I became an alcoholic and drug addicted in my 20’s, got sober at 35. Thank god the women i was with during that time had the smarts to leave me. I’m finally ready. Took awhile, but it feels right in so many ways. If you’re struggling with addiction no that there is hope. Know that you’re not alone. Ask for help.

Having a kid before being in a committed relationship

That would be such a nightmare for me. I couldn't do it even if I tried.

So many people assume that having a child will be the glue that keeps them together and makes the other person serious about the relationship.

It is rarely the case.

Having a kid before marriage. Don't do that.

Where I grew up, it was just how people ended their hopes and dreams. You'd have 17yr olds talking about going to college, or whatever, find out they knocked someone up, and they'd just be all depressed and say 'Well, I guess I'm just going to find a job somewhere ... so much for having any kind of a future'.

Financially is huge.

And not just financially for a perfect, healthy child. Be ready for a child that will need medications, or therapy for an impediment, or surgery, or any number of things.

Then if you do have a perfectly healthy child, y’all can use that money for a mini-vacation.

Guy I work with (some dumb job you don’t make a lot of money at) has three kids. What the fuck with a job you need no education for and make almost no money at all, you have three kids? The guy didn’t even work for the last couple of years afaik he just started because he had to otherwise he would stop getting welfare checks.

Having a kid before being in a committed relationship / being married and being financially prepared.

I've actually been pleasantly surprised by how well having kids way too early has worked out well for about half the people I know who have done it.

My high school gf got knocked up at 19 - and she was an immature 19. She had to delay her education for years. But now she is so relaxed because her kid is grown and out of the house - and I just helped her get into medical school last year. She's in such a great position - kids can destroy a young life,, but if you pull it off, you actually end up ahead.

An Ex was really pushing me to getting married and having kids. I wasn't ready. It was a committed relationship, but I did not feel financially prepared to have a kid.

Or just getting married at all...

So happy that none of the guys I've had sex with ever got pregnant accidentally!

Please tell my parents and in-laws this!

When conservatives say this they get called religious nuts and outdated. There's nothing to gain from meaningless sex other than fun. If you can't sacrifice fun for your well being, you have no place with a child. Meanwhile we encourage abortion and promiscuity like it was empowering to do whatever the hell you please. That's not empowering, that's capricious and self-centred.

On the other hand, it's also possible to be careful and look for the right person and be responsible and use bc and wake up one day and you're fifty and you realize you're never going to have kids.

If I could I'd go back and poke a couple of holes in some of my 25 year old self's condom stash. Most of those were very nice girls. I wasn't in love with them, but so what? I could have adult kids and toddler grandkids by now. But the time never seemed just right, there was always a reason not to, and hey! You're done.

I've enjoyed life, I have a good marriage, it's all fine. But if I could, I'd go back and be a damn sight less careful, knock a couple of puppies out when I was young and had the energy to deal with them. I really would.

So, that's the other side. Take it or leave it, I know it's unpopular to say, but you can be too careful. You can leave it too long.

Gonna call slight bullshit on this.

In reality having a partner isn't required, but it makes things a lot easier. Being 'financially prepared' is such a nebulous concept that people who actually take that into consideration push back having kids until they're old enough that they enjoy having kids a lot less.

As long as you're mature, financially stable, and have a decent support network you can have a kid pretty much whenever. A lot of people in my area think you need to be married and own a house before you can even think of procreating, and since it's the Bay Area and houses are stupid expensive a lot of people put off having their first kid until they're in their 40s or 50s, then they have to go to clinics and/or get a surrogate, take pain meds when teaching their kid to ride a bike, etc.

Having a kid whenever is fine, as long as the person doesn't suck at adulting and is capable of financially, emotionally, and temporally (time-spent wise) supporting their children. If they're not they're gonna go full Farrah Abraham.

I agree it is something you shouldn't do when your in your twenties and not prepared but sometimes you do smarten and become a better person because of your child. I'm 21 and having my first child with my boyfriend who is 26, we had it rough at first but we have our own apartment for two or more months now and he has a full time job starting. If you take responsibility and understand that it isn't your life anymore, that's a huge start.

This is complicated. In order for this to be a reality for everyone, you have to help to create a society where women don't view having a man and child in their lives as the best path to economic stability.

I don’t think anyone views it that way or insinuates that. I think it’s common place, but I know plenty of successful single women. Women will likely seek out what they want. Simple as that.

Cool but look at the data, that's the exception not the rule.

What data? Saying “look at the data” isn’t helpful.

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/income-poverty/cps-finc/finc-01.html

I’m on mobile and clicked ‘all races’...I see absolutely no data set that refers to gender. Am I missing something?

Worked out pretty well for me.

I would delete the first part and just leave the "financially prepared" married or not kids are expensive. Its best to know you can afford to care for one properly before you commit to having one. If you are financially prepared and have worked out how to manage your time around raising a child you don't need to be in a marriage to do so successfully. A lot of the data on single parenting is skewed by how man of them are living below or close to the poverty line.

Youre almost never financially ready. You just kind of make it happen.

You’ll never be financially prepared to have a kid I feel like

Hardly true. You can definitely plan as a couple to have a kid.

You can also just be rich as shit, that also helps.

Tinder is like 80% girls in thier late 20's and 30's thinking some magic guy wants to deal with thiwr ex twice a week, and pay for thier kid...AND they want that guy to magically be 6' 2" handsome as fuck and want to party every weekend and pay for a babysitter, too ( that gets crazy expensive) Then you keep seein on your facebook that they keep getting fuckboys that dump them in a month or two, cuz they don't realise no handsome man that gots mad cash is gonna deal with thier shit... Ya.. Fuck you bitches....

If you downvote, you probably just aren't being honest with how the world currently is...... shit is pathetic as fuck. Its rare to see a kids whos parents are together and thats fucking bullshit.
...

Forgetting about calling and visiting your parents. Seriously. It may sound weird but when I was in my 20's I was so happy to be out of the house that I made the mistake of disconnecting with my mom and dad.

I wish I would have done more.

My dad died over 3 years ago while I was working far from home. Really left me with a lot of regret of "should've spent more time/ talked more to him".

My mother calls me at least 3 times a week. I'm usually in the mood for her, but during a bad day, It doesn't matter how annoyed, fed up with the world or tired I am, I just take a deep breath and let her talk with me for as long as she feels like it (sometimes 5 mins, sometimes 30-40 mins). Because I don't want to have the regret of having our last call be a short, bitter one.

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This only reinforces how special of a relationship I have with my mom, and I'm very thankful for that. I don't have to tolerate, speaking to her on a bad day brightens it.

And the funny thing is 5 minutes later I´m into the conversation and by the end of it I feel joy from it, so in the end it´s always good.

When I get in that "mode," I try to remember how lonely and worthless I felt before. I would wish for people that cared about me like that. That helps me put up with being "bothered by them." It's often harder to appreciate what you have I guess.

I'm 22 and will chunk out a solid 3 hours of my day to call both of them and just talk. I live across the country and haven't had the money to go home in quite a while. I miss them, and phone calls are about as good as it gets for now :(

If you can get past the technology hurdle, videochatting is actually really nice.

It might be my Asian culture or the fact that I love my parents, but I try to help and talk to them very often...even when I just want to be isolated.

Life is short and sometimes a nice conversation in this crazy world can be appreciated.

I do the same things with my dogs since they don’t live long relative to me.

i like this comment

You're doing good by your mom (and dad too)

The last conversation I had with my mom was me asking for her information to put her on my life insurance beneficiaries. Told her id call het later since I was on my first day at a new job. Forgot to call her back. She died a week later. Nobody knows why. She just dropped dead and the guys coming to fix the ac found her.

I'm very sorry for your loss

I'm 19 years old. I don't know what I would do if my parents died. They're pretty much the only supporting people I have in my life, let's be honest, friends at this age are just like you and figuring stuff out, and they don't care about you much. No-one cared about us more than our parents. It seems like you'll have a long time with them, but really the years pass quite fast.

im struggling with this and it is really hitting me hard..

Thanks for that, I will definitely start doing same with my mom.

Because I don't want to have the regret of having our last call be a short, bitter one.

All the feels...

My mom does the same. I moved out with late 17. Since then my mom calls me 3-5 times a week.

Hearing this makes me feel better about the relationship with my mom.

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Damn man, that’s awful. I live an ocean away from my parents and I have literal nightmares about this happening. Condolences :<

Same here. I'm an only child and my parents had me late so they're hitting 60 and I just got out of college and moved away last year. I can only call them once a week because of the time difference. It would take me a full day to get back home if something were to happen to either of them and they have no one else to be there for them. I feel panicky even just thinking about it.

Holy shit, you have literally the exact same life circumstances as me. That's crazy, and I feel the exact same way.

Shit this is also almost exactly me. My parents are hitting 55-60 and I’m preparing to move all the way from the east coast of the US to Sydney, Australia. I’m excited to start a new life and everything, but also terrified of something happens to one of them or any of my sisters.

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We do this too! We have a group chat with my brothers and parents and we send pictures of the cat, dogs, whatever. It’s so nice being a part of the daily stuff especially since I’m not much for talking on the phone. This would all be much less bearable without technology.

Aw that’s not mundane that’s adorable

I’ve lived my whole life an ocean away from my grandparents until 3 years ago. I’ve spent every day with them and plan my life around them even at the expense of my own fun, sometimes even jeopardizing my own future. I’ve been waiting this whole thread for people to write, “Go have fun! Travel! Take risks! Party before you’re too old!” It’s the advice I’m dreading the most. I tried to have fun in my early 20’s, but i was too anxious, insecure, and untalented.

Now I desperately want to leave again, and go explore before I get tied down to anything. But my grandpa passed away and my grandma has only grown weaker and more dependent, and my mom has no one to take care of her and she’s getting old too and I don’t know if I can really leave. I love my family but I may be stuck here for the rest of my life, taking over the family restaurant, overworked for shit pay with my future already mapped out.

Talk to your family as much as you can. Skype, FB messenger, whatever it’s so damn cheap to call compared to twenty years ago. And visit as often as possible whenever possible. I love my family, I really do but often times I just want to be out on my again.

I live in Europe and my folks live in Canada. Moved away for school. While I can’t see myself wanting to return to North America, I always wish I was closer to them and I’m jealous of people who live in the same city as their parents when they’re older

I have the same struggle. Also from North America, living in Europe. If my family didn’t live there I’d probably never go back, but they’re all there and I miss them so it’s a real struggle balancing personal wants and the desire to be with your family. I wish my family wanted to move to Australia with me.

I'm in the same situation. I love my parents and chat with them every few days. They're getting old fast, though. I don't think it's ever a good time.

My parents both told me not to stick around just because someone might die. It's a good way to literally waste your life.

That’s such a nice thing of them to say. A lot of parents could easily be selfish and try to guilt you into staying.

I’ve lived abroad for 9 years and in the middle I did spend a year living a 40 minute drive from them and honestly only saw them maybe once a month tops. Time flies, people are busy, there’s not much to catch up on.

The upside of living far away is that I now appreciate the time I do spend with them and my brothers. When I go home it’s exciting and fun now and I really enjoy being with them and we do lots of family stuff. I probably squeeze months and months of quality time into a few weeks. I appreciate them more now than I did before I left.

This is also my biggest fear about moving abroad. At the moment if there was an emergency I'm no more than 90 minutes from any of my family. I plan to move abroad anyway, but being 6 time zones away would be such a worry were anything to happen.

I wasn't bothered by it when I moved to the USA at 18 for 2 years. But just a few years after coming back, my parents and remaining grandparents are looking a lot more mortal :(

I feel you. Where I really want to live is about 2000 miles away. My parents always encourage me to just go, but I'm always terrified of something happening while I'm not there, or missing out on times with them. But I don't want to be stuck in the same shitty area my parents decided to settle down in.

I grew up in a town of 2500, I feel you.

Well, at the end of the day, you chose to abandon them to make more money. You rationalized this with some platitudinous garbage like "everyone moves on."

But you're just being selfish and lazy. You could risk your bullshit status by going to visit them any time but you won't. Because you might lose that status symbol job that makes you feel big. And your parents will die as you neglect them and you'll come here and bitch about it like you couldn't do anything about it. When you could, right now. But people are totally cool with being really narcissistic these days so I can see why you find no problem with this.

Get off your high horse or GTFO. Who are you to tell someone how to live their life?

Ironically given the content of their comment, my parents live in London, where I'd probably get paid more (given the field of my degree) than where I am now or where I plan to end up. I just can't afford the cost of living.

Ironically, I would probably get paid more if I lived near them. But I don't want and can't afford to live in London.

Same. My parents live 12000 miles away from me, it really fucking sucks.

Mine live about 10,000 miles from me. My dad is having heart surgery in June and I love it here, but can't stand that I won't be there to visit him.

My parents and I are super close and in September I am moving to the UK. I k ow they are not happy and don’t want me to go. It hurts so much and I can’t imagine not being home in case something happens.

Trust me man you are not alone in this, last year my grandpa and uncle both died suddenly and it just makes you dread the days when you get that call.

I lost my dad this year and had fallen out of touch because of vet school and kept saying to myself i would call tomorrow or when i had a second.... The hardest part of it all not ever being able to talk to them again, ever tell them epic news, not being able ask them anything ever again or spend time with them. Rip dad i miss you.... every fucking day

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Yeah that random want to call and catch up is for me the hardest thing. When the real feeling of loss hits

I'm so sorry.

Lost my mom in my 20s. I felt like you did for a very long time.

And now.....

I have kids about to leave the nest. So I am speaking from both sides:

Do NOT feel guilty for wanting to be out on your own, especially as a young person. It’s normal. If a parent has done their job, that’s exactly what’s supposed to happen.

I do not feel bad at all that my son will be starting a 6 year stint in the USAF this summer. He needs to spread his wings and go. He probably won’t call as often as he can, much less visit and that’s ok. In your early to mid 20s, you’re just getting around to being a grown up. It’s how it’s supposed to be. It’s a little later in life, when your more established that you realize this.

Your parents most likely understood that you were growing into your own and were ok with the change. Don’t be so hard on yourself. It’s ok to be selfish when your young. It’s expected and normal.

I hope you find peace and enjoy the memories of your dad.

I've been posed with existential dread over stuff like this. once you move out, you go from seeing your folks almost everyday to a number that can be once a week or twice a year. Even at 6-10 times a year, you multiply that by their projected life expectancy and you'll have like.... 200 or so times you may see them if you see em 10 times a year over the next 20 years. Once you move out it's like your interactions with family and friends you've lived with drop to a very limited number. I tell them I love them. But is it enough?

It's definitely a rough part of today's culture.

Both of my parents still walk on the Earth, and - I shit you not - thanks to reddit, I've made a point of at least calling them once a week and not moving too far away from home.

My plan is, once they're older and infirmed, to use the sale of their home to purchase property, with them living in a carriage house on the same plot as me.

Fuck, this hits so close to home. I'm 23, my dad is turning 69 early May, and not particularly healthy, just not unhealthy, if that makes sense.

I almost never have real conversations with my parents. My dad has poor social skills, doesn't ask many questions, makes awkward jokes, my mom is very... socially unaware, and does/says a lot of weird shit, so it is hard for me to ever be in the mood to talk to them.

Same. I'm in 24 and my dad is 68, mom 63. It scares me to think that they may never meet my kids

Fuck man, I never even thought about that. It's weird, right man? Having parents that are so old.

24 with 67 year old dad. He and his wife are going on a vacation where they're gonna have to hike a lot at great heights and he's not exactly the most fit. He even fucking called me tell me if he dies his wife will still be there etc. like wtf, thanks for the nightmares dad.

Literally barely sleeping since they left, now I know how my parents felt when I just randomly didn't come home on the weekend without leaving a message or something.

Yeah my old ass Asian parents are very blunt and every time I see them, they say "now when we die all of this is yours" "now when we die you will have to take care of the mortgage yourself" "now when we die..." SHUT UP DAD YOURE ASIAN AND GOING TO LIVE UP TO 110. NO IM NOT CRYING

Crap. You're way too young. He probably would be too... Sorry to hear.

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Would hate to lose my dad, or mother. My wife lost her mother, 3 years ago. Same age as you. She was mid 50. They had a great relation and still misses her everyday. Take care of yourself. Don't walk away from the thoughts and feelings!

My mother just died 15 days ago from cancer. I’m 22. I did my best taking care of her. But man, this is so hard living without my dad and now without my mother.

She was a truly warrior, she taught me endless life lessons, and she made me a true man.

People doesn’t give parents what they deserve. Take care of your parents, if not, someday you’ll regret, trust us.

I miss her so much.

I lost my dad six years ago when I was 22. Losing my mother as well would be so hard …
Stay strong, you are a warrior like your mother! And remember, you don’t have to do everything alone. Reach out to other people.

Sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing.

On the flipside, I found out my dad had cancer and right as I had decided not to pull off being distant I found out he tried molesting my brother. He can go to hell

My mom had a brain aneurysm, and the night before she called me and I didn't get to the phone.

So there's a regret I never expected at 27.

Really rocks your sense of safety, doesn't it?

As someone who is in his 20s and his dad just got diagnosed last week, this rings a little too close to home.

I don't know you but love you man.

I hope he’ll be alright! Cherish the time you have together and don’t be afraid to tell him and talk with him about all you have on your heart! I’ve been there, too.

I’m so sorry. Hang in there.

awww that progressed so quickly and soooo tragicly. i'm so sorry about your father.

I’m sorry for your loss, but at the same time thank you for your wisdom. Il go visit my parents tomorrow

Setting a reminder to call my parents tonight! They found tumor in his liver and was successful in taking some out but I'll never know when or if it'll become worse.

It's often difficult for me to maintain a healthy relationship if people are not within the same city/being able to meet physically. It's how I lose connections =P (kinda hard when I have to put in the 100% effort but family is always worth)

Fuck. I need to call my father. Thank you.

Do it, it will be good for the both of you. :-)

Right there with you. Mom died in same manner/timeframe. Afterwards I found she'd saved every letter I wrote her after I moved out...there were so few. I got home and found the BOX of hundreds of letters she had written me and just cried, and cried

My God, I'm so sorry.

Sorry for your loss brotha

choke

Best wishes x

... I need to call my parents now

Fuck man, I was lucky... I at least got 6 years with my dad before he lost his battle to cancer... I'm so sorry.

I’m so sorry! I know exactly what you mean. I was lucky enough to have my dad around for another year after I got that call, but still having just another day with him now would be the greatest thing on earth, six years after he died. I hope you also have many happy memories to look back on and can be thankful for the time you had with him!

Very sorry to hear about your loss :(

why are my eyes raining? in all seriousness, thank you for sharing this, your words alone created countless valuable moments for families around the world.

Jesus Christ dude I’m at work and I’m trying to enjoy my lunch ... I talk to my parents every weekend (I moved to CO from NY last year) and I feel bad that I haven’t kept in touch enough... and now I wanna cry.

Fuck. I just put myself in your shoes and fuck that's hard. Brb, gtg my parents and tell them I love them.

This hit every feel I have. I'm sorry for your loss and appreciate the way you put that.

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Yes, I was just about to comment something similar. My entire family was abusive, manipulative, and, even though I hate this word, toxic. If you’re in a situation like this, leave. It’s better in the long run, and do not feel guilty. You know what you need to do, and other people may have their own opinion, but they don’t know every detail of the situation like you do.

My parents are a confusing mix of emotionally healthy/loving and manipulative/abusive. They want what's best for their kids, and have been generous in helping us out in life, but the ends justify the means in their eyes. They'll make you feel like shit if they think it'll get you to do what they want. I carry around a lot of shame and guilt as an adult because shame/guilt was the #1 way they pushed us kids to succeed.

I struggle a lot with how much I want to see and talk to them. Sometimes I go a few months without calling them and I think about them every day and feel shame/guilt that I don't call them but I feel an intense anxiety about talking to them. I don't know if this comment has a purpose, I just thought about my parents reading this thread.

My mom’s favorite form of manipulation was guilt. It’s strong, and never truly goes away. Don’t feel bad about not wanting to have constant contact with your parents, you don’t need to if you don’t want to; you’re an adult and can make your own choices. If you want to call them one day, then do. But if you’re feeling anxiety, maybe try thinking about why you get so anxious about talking to them. It sucks, I know. But good luck!

This is just happening with me, it's the first time I'm living truly alone. My mother got her last things today (she actually moved out, I stayed). It feels so good to be completely independent from a family which makes you feel uncomfortable. I'm just a little scared of the aftermath since she's having some mental problems and I don't know what she's capable of doing.

Just a tip, make sure you get all the keys from your mom or change the locks. Take it from someone who’s mother was a helicopter parent, crazy and had a key to my personal space. She showed up in the middle of night and watched me sleep for who knows how long before I woke up. Do this especially because of your last sentence.

It’s hard separating yourself from a parent, but worth it. Good luck!

Woah, that takes helicopter parent on a whole new level

You have no idea. That was just the beginning.

The time before yesterday when we've seen us, she gave me two weeks time to think but appeared just two days later. I'm glad I've changed the lock in between, otherwise I don't know what my flat would look like because she likes to throw things around when angry. She also announced she will make a scene at my workplace today - I'm prepared and so are my bosses, haha. She was so convinced she will be heard there. Disappointment incoming.

Your mom sounds really crazy as well. It's sad how some family relationships develop.

Gosh my mum is like that as well. Loves to throw things around, emotionally abusive and used to be physically abusive until I put a stop to it. She always asks for the phone numbers of my bosses, friends and people I interact with “for safety purposes”. She once called my boss to complain about me (it was my first job and I didn’t know how to say no back then) and every time I do things that displeases her she threatens to call my bosses. I plan to move out soon but I can’t help but feel bad because she’s a single parent and she’ll be alone.

It’s great to know that I’m far from the only one with these issues though!

Ugh, she's not good for you. My mother is a single parent too but that doesn't allow her to act the way she acts. On top of that she really struggles with money, but I can't support someone like this. She actually came to my workplace an hour ago and I managed to get my last key back from her. There's nothing left anymore and from today on I don't have any family left.

I'm not as sad as I should be, because I have rarely felt good in her presence. Something was holding me back as a person, probably my fear of things escalating if I say something wrong.

Finally leaving feels like a HUGE relieve right now. I'm recommending you to do the same if she's the cause of your bad feelings. Don't look back and don't feel guilty. It can only improve. :)

Okay, thanks for the advice and glad to hear that you’re out of the woods :)

Thank you! Mom died a few years back and dad reappered into my life just to try and steal everything from me. When filing a restraining order my lawyer was like "but it's your father! You'll regret this later". Nope. I'm certain I won't. Also I have another lawyer now.

Ah! I hate those “you’ll regret it later” comments! They drive me crazy. Glad you got a different lawyer.

I agree with this so much. I hate the whole "but they're your family" thing. If they're toxic towards your well being, forget about them for few months, then try again. Eventually they will grow up, or you will accept the way they are. But don't be around them if you all just keep damaging each others mental state.

Yeah i hate the whole "suck ur parents dick bc theyll die soon" speech people like to give. My parents abused me the entire time i lived with them and my dad just recently decided to disown me because hos psycho wife decided i was disrespectful (for telling her no and standing up for myself). I couldn't be goddamn happier. Leave the abusive people behind and dont feel bad about it.

This. I’ve been dragged into random family disputes throughout my years. Some more disruptive to family life than others.

I extended an invitation to them all for my wedding. Only three of my 7 aunts on my mothers side even graced us with a reply to say whether they were coming.

The three came. In my speech. I said something to the effect of all my family is in this room. Any people who were invited and didn’t have the common decency to respond at all, aren’t worth my time.

At the reception. The three who came all asked if I meant what I said about cutting them out of my life. I said yes. If they can’t put their differences aside to come and celebrate my marriage with me then I’m done with them. They all agreed with me and my family while now smaller is a lot closer to me. As I know who gives a shit and who doesn’t

Thank you. I always feel so guilty and broken when I see responses like the person's you're responding to, and I have to actively remind myself that those people had loving, kind, well-intentioned parents. My father hasn't spoken to me since September because I stopped letting me manipulate me, and I hope when he dies all I'll feel is relief.

I go by the criteria that if someone actively makes your life miserable, or tries to hurt you, then it's ok to leave them. If they're mentally ill or miserable then you might want to distance yourself some, but I think it's a balance between knowing when someone is manipulating you or using you solely for their own benefit and knowing when someone is just messed up but essentially doesn't want to cause you pain.

Yeah was about say, it’s a complete different scenario when that’s the situation. My parents, mum especially, was incredibly manipulating and abusive to me growing up. It always bugs me when people tell me “Oh but she’s your mother, it doesn’t matter what she did” or “You’ve only got one mum and dad, stop being childish”, they have no idea what’s they’re talking about. It stings even more when it’s my own mum saying that to me.

Agreed. I grew up around NYC. Since graduating HS, I have lived in: Jacksonville, FL; Las Vegas, NV; Tucson, AZ; and finally, Santa Rosa, CA. There is a reason I kept moving further and further away.

Thank you for this.

Yup. One of the best decisions I made was to no longer try to force my biodad into being a parent. When I got engaged and he didn’t even say congrats, I just decided to not reach out to him again. That was it. He never called once after that, so I had my wedding without him.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ His loss.

My stepdad (who I consider my actual father, the man who walked me down the aisle) and I had a difficult relationship. Leaving his house and being independent was the best thing I ever did. He was really emotionally abusive, which sucks, but leaving and getting out from under his thumb has made our relationship a lot better. I gave myself a couple months of no contact with him when I got out, and we’ve stayed on kind of a low-to-mid contact level, depending on his behavior/what’s going on in our life.

Realizing that I wasn’t actually obligated to keep trying to “play nice” with abusers was probably the biggest revelation I had as an adult. It’s so freeing.

This. While my parents are not horrible people, they are still people with flaws and vices that will most likely never change. Realize family does not mean understanding or bound for life. You can love people from a distance while loving yourself at the same time.

This is tricky with parents, but I agree. Some people are clearly toxic and you should involve them as little as possible for your own sanity. Others are toxic at times, we all can be. Don't cut them off entirely but don't let their opinions ruin your life. If your parents disagree with your lifestyle pause and think about why that might be but don't let them dictate what is right and wrong for you. You are their legacy but you are also your own person. Be successful on your terms instead of letting them bring you down for your accomplishments not lining up with their expectations. On the flip side, if you are far more successful than they ever imagined you don't have to hook them up with the level of lifestyle they want. Make sure they are taken care of but never forget about taking care of number one (you).

Personally I don't have a great relationship with my mom, we can't go 10 minutes without yelling at each other. I have wanted a better relationship with her but every time I try it goes to shit. The only way for us to maintain a speaking relationship is (ironically) speaking as little as possible.

I can relate. I wish I could be closer to my mom, and I try to call her often but she ignores my messages and phone calls. I’ve been trying to accept that when she goes, I’ll feel regret for having not spoken to her more but I can only do so much on my own.

It’s a sad realization

Mine's not quite that bad, but the situation is a bit similar. We're on much better terms now that we live super far away from each other. Even when I was in my 20s, she'd take her frustrations out on me for stupid shit and then wonder why our relationship was tense.

"Oh I want to be close with my daughter!"

"Then don't call her out of the blue to fucking yell at her for not doing something you didn't ask her to do in the first place."

She won't do that shit anymore. I don't know if it's because she's learned to respect that I'm an adult or if it's because she realizes that it would be extremely easy for me to just cut her out of my life, and she doesn't want to give me a reason to do that. Either way, it's an improvement.

It's like that with my mom too; not yelling just snipping. It's always been that way but it was better with my dad around because we could all "talk" as a group and it seemed normal that we were soaking directly to each other as little as possible. Now we don't have that buffer.

She comes over to spend time with my kids and I just go find something else to do. My kids worship her but she's starting to use her snippy voice with my oldest since he has become an "annoying" preschooler instead of a cute toddler. It's going to go to hell as soon as he gets old enough to recognize the tone of voice she uses with him for what it is...

I'm very sorry about that, but it seems like sometimes this really is the best option - for her too

I love my father, I truly do. In certain moments. There have been rare fleeting times I’ve felt more connected to him than anyone else in this world, including my mother, who was my best friend until she passed away.

My father and I were never the type to talk every day or even week... he let my mom have that time with me. Now that she has passed, he is so lonely, and I have moved back to my hometown, as he is getting older and I know I need to be here for him.

The only thing is... I very rarely actually WANT to spend time with him anymore. We’ve never seen eye to eye on many things, but lately, it seems to have gotten so much worse. He has the highest expectations of everyone and everything. It makes simply existing in his presence stressful. I have even tried to talk through this with him, as it’s not just me that has this issue with him, but he can’t understand. He is a huge trump supporter and very pro-firearms, which is fine and all, but that is all he ever talks about, and I am neither of those things.

He hates my boyfriend. To be fair, my boyfriend has not helped this. But every single time I see him he wants to know if we’ve broken up yet and if not then why. It’s exhausting. I get that he wants the best for me but I’m 33 years old...

All in all he just makes it very hard to be around him. But he wants me around constantly. I end up avoiding him for days at a time, then feeling guilty and trying to spend some time with him, and repeat.

I don’t know what to do. I know what it feels like to lose a parent. I have no regrets with my mother, I did everything I could to spend time with her. But with him...I haven’t and I’m not but I have no real desire to.

I still live with my parents...do I still have to call and visit?

Yes. Not literally, but make time for them. Get to know THEM, not just their role as your parents. I waited too long, and regretted it. Twice.

I can't second this enough. I am 33, and my dad passed away from cancer last year. It was the worst thing I ever went through... until my mom passed away after a sudden heart attack this week. You always think you're going to have all the time in the world, until the second it's taken away from you. :(

Damn, my condolences. Couldn't imagine how I would deal with something like that atm since I'm incredibly lonely already.

I am so very sorry, I hope that you can find some good in life. I can't imagine.

I know I'm a stranger, however, if there's anything EVER that I can do. Pm me.

Thank you kindly, stranger. <3 There is definitely still good in life, despite this... friends make a world of difference and my partner is an incredible support.

This x100. My mum died one week after my 23rd birthday.

I have so many unanswered questions and unsaid things.

Nearly 4 years down the line it still feels as painful as it did the day she left. Don't waste a damn minute of time you have left with your parents.

I'm 24 and this one is difficult for me. I wish I could be around my parents more, but they divorced when I was 15 and once I graduated, one moved a handful of states away and the other moved to the other side of the country. Both to pursue relationships, leaving me, the only child from their marriage, alone at 17 (summer birthday).

It's really shitty and lonely.

and grandparents!

Absolutely. They're important too!

I can’t agree with this more. After I left for college me and my dad drifted apart for a couple of reasons. I lost him earlier this year and I’m only 21 and I would give anything to be able to talk to him again. Call your parents now before you regret it.

I'm moving back in with my parents soon and I'm really glad I'll get to spend more time with them.

I call my mom on the drive home from work every day. It relaxes me in traffic, and now she is one of my closest friends, and we watch the same shows and stuff. It's the best decision I ever made. Plus it eases up on her guilting me for not coming to visit so often.

I feel like there’s a really sad story behind this comment and I don’t want to ruin my night so I’m not gonna ask

I accept and understand the value behind your advice.

I still intend to speak to them as little as possible, leading to zero as soon as feasible, for the rest of my 20's, and adult life.

I should have added an addendum: if your parents are shitty, don't listen to me.

That actually means a lot to me. Thank you.

This is one thing I actually feel really good about. Ever since moving out after high school (8 years ago) I call my mom every day Monday - Friday. Now that I live relatively close to my parents again, we have dinners together every other week. In the off weeks I meet my dad for breakfast before work one day.

My parents are the most lovable, knowledgeable, caring people I’ll ever personally have in my life and I want to appreciate the ability to spend time with them while I have it.

Do it while you’re driving to work, it doesn’t take any extra time and it’s amazing how more connected you are with a person when you get up update them on your day for 15 minutes every day.

On the flip side, knowing that it’s okay to walk away from toxic family relationships. People who won’t let you live your life to the fullest, and people who berate you and are oppressive. It’s okay to walk away.

Fuck, this had happened to me with my high school friends. I hope it doesn't with my parents.

Most people drift away from their high school friends, college friends, and work friends from a company you/they left... Friendship has a lot to with proximity. When you aren't physically close to someone you will start to drift as your schedules stop lining up. Don't feel bad. Keep in touch with the people that matter to you but also accept that you won't see or talk to them as much as you once could. Understanding goes a long way with keeping friends you only talk to a couple times a year (or less...).

I have been having a disconnect with my parents and don't really know what to do (I'm 17). We are just drastically different people and honestly if i were to be more engaged with then they would get annoyed (I legitimately can't stand smoky substances and have this general hate for weed because of personal reasons i don't want to explain, and they smoke it so if I were to hang around them them it would either being some really shitty affects to me or just make them hate me)

Depends. I am glad I disconnected (not completely) from my parents because I was able to address a lot of my issues without just blaming them. Now I have a better relationship than I ever had with them.

your parents

And grandparents!

My late teens/early 20s were some of the last years I remember where I could talk to some of my grandparents before they developed pretty noticeable dementia. Most people will get dementia if they live long enough, so enjoy that brief window (if you are lucky enough to get it) where you can talk to your adult grandparent as an adult yourself.

There is more truth to this than anyone in their teens / early 20s can really comprehend.

My father has always been the most active, motivated person I have ever known. Then it's like I woke up one day and he started getting old. Like. What the fuck. My dad isn't supposed to get old.

It scares the holy shit out of me tbh

What if you hate one or both of them?

I’m in my early 20’s. I cut my cancerous mom out of my life and I can’t picture ever regretting it. Check out /r/RaisedByNarcissists

Mine are abusive. I can’t wait to fall out of contact with them.

I lost my dad a few months ago. It was and is absolutely shit. Before I moved out I lived with my mum and stepdad full time and visited my dad on weekends etc because I was in my first full time work; it was more convenient to live full time with the other two. I wish every day that I'd visited dad more. We had an amazing relationship and I loved him to bits--the best dad a son could ask for--and I'm glad I was old enough when he passed to know him as a person (he missed my 21st birthday by 3 months).

I know for sure I'm not gonna be taking my mum and stepdad for granted, not for a second. Anything can happen, people.

this is bullshit. some people dont want to see their family.

Yeah, most of my 20s I spent as little time around my parents as possible and not talking to them a whole lot. I have a much healthier relationship with them now at 40, and I wish I could go back and change things.

Lol did a pro life tip about calling your mother. They took it down said that’s not a pro life tip. Screw them, call your mom she misses you!!!

I can't echo this enough. My dad passed away very suddenly at a very early age 3 months ago and this is by far the one thing that will always haunt me, was not calling him more and talking to him more.

You can never assume you will have enough time.

And grandparents.

This is something I really try to keep up with. It's so easy for me to go literal months without talking to anyone in my family and this last year I've really tried to break that. My mom and I text everyday as I try to call a couple times a week to talk to both of them. We usually stay on the phone for at least 30 minutes but usually an hour. It helped when they moved out of state because if we're around each other too long we kind of hate each other. Lol but what can ya do. I have a great relationship with my parents now, sometimes you need a break from them but I'm 24 now and have some real life stuff in progress so I can connect with them on a different level and it's nice.

In my case it is living with them that I got comfortable and never decided that I should have left home. I'm 31 now and feel like I missed the bachelor freedom of my 20s just because I was too comfortable living with parents.

Easy way to not forget to do this is make a habit of calling them on your commute home at night

"Get to know your parents. You never know when they'll be gone for good. Be nice to your siblings. They're your best link to your past and the people most likely to stick with you in the future." source

My Dad had a traumatic brain injury a couple of years ago and is starting to show signs of dementia. I was raised by my step father and my mother, and so I didn't have as many opportunities to interact with him as I would've liked. Now, I can try to make up the time but it's not the same as it would've been if I'd put in the effort when he was healthy to get to know him. He's still here and I can still get to know him in a way. But there will always be a part of me that wonders "what if I had got to know him better, sooner?"

eh, i was emancipated at 16 and left before 17th birthday. i wish i could have left sooner but state law said i couldn't. haven't turned back in 10 years my dude.

can you not reconnect now?

This reminds me of the song Living Years by Mike & The Mechanics. It's basically about having a lack of communication with the ones you love and that you need to tell them you love them and all of that before they're gone

When you do move out it's a different relationship.I had a difficult relationship with my mother when I lived with her. Now that I'm on my own there is so much room for mutual respect and growth. I didnt see myself being this close to her but it happens.

I disconnected from my parent for ten years, and it was the best thing I ever did. I call her once a week now, but I needed that decade away from that controlling angry bitch.

So, you know. Circumstances differ. If you need the time away you know it. Take care of yourself.

As an orphan, all I can say is... call your parents, you'll miss them when you can't.

I listened to Larry Elder talk about reconnecting with his father and it really affected me. You don't really know who your parents were before you came along so I strongly recommend trying to get them to talk about their past. If you have grandparents still do that to. It's interesting to see how they thought about raising your parents and historical events that you may have only heard about in school. Ask about Nixon before Watergate broke for example or what rationing was like in WWII.

I'm in my late 20s now and it's getting upsetting, even disturbing, how frequently I see on Facebook that someone I went to high school with is announcing that one of their parents just died. It's like every few weeks, never more than a few months, between seeing "Oh, Tina from AP Bio's dad just had a heart attack and died at age 58" or "Mike who I went to school with k-12 just buried his mom after she succumbed to Stage 4 cancer that they only discovered a month ago."

When my parents call me, it's always from my dad's cell phone. I'm not too worried about my mom (she's healthy and active), but my dad is over 60, overweight, has a family history of heart disease, refuses to see a doctor except in emergencies, and works a stressful job. Each passing year I get more and more worried. Every time I see my mom's number come up on my phone, rather than my dad's, I have a brief flash of worry that she's calling to tell me he had a heart attack.

Just get back to them now. Unless it's too late.

This right here is a huge reason I want to quit my job and move back home. My parents are proud of me for my job though and currently I make more than my dad even though he's one of the senior members at his worksite with some of the best skills. My dad always says he wants me to move back but wants me to be successful more. Thank God for the internet though, I play everquest with my dad and chat with my mom in a FB group all the time. Don't think I'd survive without it.

My father was a terrible, terrible person. When he dies, I wonder if I'll feel the same way.

Well I mean if you disconnected and they didn’t try to reconnect they didn’t like you much either

I used to always want to move away to a big city or someplace far away from home. I went to college in my hometown and grad school a couple hours away, but since my husband owns a business in my hometown I got sucked back in. It has been one of the best things to happen, though, because I have an amazing relationship with my parents (and other extended family) and we see each other often. They also are able to see their grandchild all the time, and it’s amazing watching their relationship develop too.

Only applies if you had a decent relationship with your parents.

I can't agree more. While I did talk to my mom a lot and went to her house weekly for dinners, I still feel like I should have done more now that she's gone. No one really thinks about the fact that you could lose both parents by your mid 20s. It sucks.

Thanks, finally someone said it. I'm 23 and I moved out roughly 3 years ago. I've realized how old my parents are getting and when my studies are finished in January I'm going to move back in with them to support them. We live 7 hours away and I try to take a weekend off per month to just go hang at their place. We don't do much together, they're just happy to have me around again.

Sure you might not get along with your parents. I don't always. But I am not ready to let them leave just yet. Even at this point, them being healthy and managing their own lives, I still wish I had more time.

This one really hurt. I left home at 16 and wasn't in good contact with my mom until 22-23. She died of cancer a year later (at 54) and I feel like I hurt her in a way I can never repair. I was there for her at the end, but it didn't make up for all the shitty things that I did growing up. Regret follows you around for the rest of your life. Avoid being an asshole to your parents if you can.

I call my parents a couple times a week it's a great decision Don't forget older relatives either, I didn't call my grandfather much and one minute he was gone

Also, most of the time if you're from a fairly functional family, parental advice is godly. I'm just now in my 20's and once I got out of the gee mom i know how everything works phase, it's a blessing that parents are so easy to ask for advice

I want to do this so I don’t live with the guilt of not having seen them, it’s just so tough when your parents are cold people who have taught you to hold in all your emotions.

My parents don’t call me or text me so I’m the one who has to do all the work. I never thought it would be the hardest part of moving out, I thought I would still need them for money and advice but I think I knew long before I moved out that they won’t be helpful in those aspects

yeah, keeping contact is important, i moved out of my moms house 4 years ago, and i've visited for dinner once every week since then.

I live overseas (for 4+ years) and I wish that my parents would come visit me once instead of me having to take the ~15 hour plane journey every time. I would like them to see where I’ve made myself at home and why I like it here. Also, my dad often reads, but doesn’t respond to my messages. I don’t really bother texting him anymore.

I'm 23 and I have realized this. People in their 20s tend to forget that we aren't immortals and our parents aren't going to be around forever. Better stick with them, if we can or call them and talk nicely whenever they want to.

I call them every day at 30 years old. Never get out of that habit.

They'll appreciate it so much.

What do you do if your parents were complete assholes? I moved out and decided to disconnect from them for a while because of the way they've treated me in the past. I'm not saying I am perfect either but...

Not caring about credit/credit score. Getting credit cards and maxing them out and not being able to keep up with the payments. I'm speaking from personal experience here. I was never taught to be financially responsible and it's been a hard lesson learned. I'm 35 now, my credit score is slowly creeping up, and I have a three year plan/budget for home ownership. I'm literally a decade behind where I wanted to be.

I'm sad this one isn't higher up. I'm 33 and have a credit score above 720. It has made everything in my life easier. House loan? Super low rate. Car loan? 1.8% and I could essentially buy anything I wanted.

It's really easy to manage. Just pay your bills on time. Get a credit card, use it, but don't let it rule you.

Sitting at 750 at 23 and it's awesome. If you start of solid it's not hard to have a bang up credit score by 30.

That where mine was until I feel into a pit of depression after I graduated and decided it was ok to not pay my student loans for months. Now I'm in the 600s trying to get back to where I was. Sucks, but at least I'm young

I do this and my score is still low because of how many credit checks I’ve had and not having enough on my credit. Like, what??? It’s all bullshit. I’ve never missed a payment on anything in my life and my credit card balance is super low!!

Only use 30% of your total credit. Pay it off and repeat until your credit gets a lot better. You can check your credit for free using Credit Karma. When it gets better, apply for a credit raise. Banks check your credit upon considering a raise.

I credit karma. I guess I made the mistake of moving into a new apartment, buying a used car, and getting a credit card (all of which required credit checks) all around the same time. It killed my score.

It’s not the credit checks themselves that are tanking your score (5-7 point hit for ~6 months), it’s that you now have 2 brand new accounts (car, credit card), with no proof (yet) of your ability to repay them.

So on paper, you owe more money than you did, and creditors don’t know if you can pay it back. So lending you more money, right now, would be riskier, hence the lower score. As you establish a history of paying on the card and car note, your scores will go up.

Just be patient...also, credit doesn’t care if you put $300 on the card and paid it off, or$30, and paid it off. Credit score just cares about you making a payment on time, not how much you paid off.

Do you know anything about how to make your credit go up faster? If I have five cards, use them all, and pay them all on time, does that give me five times as many points as if I have one card I use for everything?

When I was doing mortgages, I think the rule of thumb was ideally you see 2 fixed amount, fixed term loans (car, House, student loans), and 3-5 credit cards.

Multiple cards allow you to have a higher overall amount of available credit (after all, it’s easier to get 5 banks to feel comfortable enough to give you a $4K line of credit than to get one bank to give you a $20k line of credit). Plus, each card has their own desired risk profile, so you may qualify for credit line increases for one or two of those 5, for example. If you only have one, and they say no to a limit increase request, you’re stuck.

Ultimately, I’d say get 1-2 cards to start, ideally with no annual fee, give it a few years, and then see if you qualify for cards with better interest rates or rewards, and then apply for another one or two if you want. Reason I say no annual fee on first cards is because “average age of credit line” is a factor in your score, so you can keep them open, not use them, and still benefit from their available credit.

Credit score is basically built for lenders to judge your risk to them individually. They like to see long histories of good behavior, decently high percent of available credit NOT being used (ie, you’re disciplined enough to not max things out, and other banks have apparently been repaid by you), and that you haven’t opened a bunch of new debt recently.

Hope that helps...really, the simplest way is to have a lot of credit available but not used, and not a lot of new accounts opened in the recent past.

What are “hard inquires” then?

Those are the credit inquiries I mentioned. The ones you see on your report. But those individually are a 5-7 point hit per pull, and you said “tanked”, so I’m guessing you meant more than a 15 point drop, which is where the rest of my post addresses (age of existing lines of credit)

As annoying as it is, it will just take time. It will bounce back.

Credit utilization is a big pet peeve of mine. There's no way in hell I'm increasing my credit limit beyond what I need after I was in the Experian breach, and complaining to lendors usually gets the job done when they give me a fuss.

I'm 21 with a 716, I never really realized how great that is untill now. I just need to make sure I don't fuck it up

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Until you try to start building credit and get denied for all cards simply because you don't have credit.

Seriously the stupidest thing I've ever had to deal with.

Secure credit card

This is the most prevalent one that I see with my friends. Get excited when they finally pay the credit card down to 0, and any money they happen to stumble upon (tax refunds for example) is just "free money". Its not an infinite resource, should keep some saved up. Not just live paycheck to paycheck spending everything you earn with nothing to fall back on.

Wtf is this credit score thing? I don't live in the US

It's super fucked up. Private companies track pretty much everyone in the US how much loans they have, do they pay them on time and a whole bunch of other things.

Read up on it, it's quite interesting. It's incredible how they allow such an invasion of privacy...

It's super fucked up.

Except it isn't. Credit is a great tool. One of the most powerful financing tools there is, in fact. Companies also want to know that they aren't giving you half a million dollars for a house that you'll never pay back. So they look at your history of debt and if you've managed it well.

I guess what you said would make sense in a country where identity theft isn't as rampant

I don't want to get a credit card at all. The idea of borrowing money sounds too risky to me. Is this a good idea?

It isn't a good idea, you need a card to build good credit even if you are only spending 50-60 bucks a month and paying it off every month just building the credit is important for later on in life.

if you can, treat it like a debit. credit is a NECESSITY for travelling & for online shopping.

credit is a NECESSITY for travelling & for online shopping.

Wrong, just so, so wrong. While i agree with the first part of what you said /u/OnoSideboard i feel the same way as them, and i get by just fine traveling and online shopping without credit at all. You can do both of those just as easily with debit. Its a bit more difficult internationally but not impossible to do so, just safer and easier ill at least when travelling admit.

You can do both of those just as easily with debit. Its a bit more difficult internationally but not impossible to do so, just safer and easier ill at least when travelling admit.

Not in the slightest. Let's say you need to rent a car (you don't even need to go on a trip to find yourself at the rental counter). The rental fee is $150. Ok, no problem. But the car rental company puts an additional $500 hold on your card as a deposit above the anticipated rental fee. Plus, despite your bank putting a hold on that $500 as soon as the card is swiped, they take 5 business days to remove the hold when you return the car. And a business day is only Monday through Friday. And is only 9:00 AM - 3:00 PM. So when you return the car at 4:00 PM on Friday, as far as the bank is concerned, that transaction occurred on Monday so the hold doesn't come off until the next Monday.

You've got bigger problems than credit if a 500 dollar hold is going to cause problems for you.

How's that? You can use debit for both.

Credit cards have better protections than a debit card used as a credit card. With an actual credit card, you can call them up and reverse payments that were not authorized if someone stole your info (traveling and online payments are the riskiest for purchases because info can be easily stolen). Debit cards tend not to be as generous.

debit is easier to steal online. when travelling, and you possibly lose your credit card, it is easier to cancel your credit card (nearly immediately) than your debit (which can take business days). personally, i treat credit cards just like debit and give myself a certain amount to work with to be on the safer side.

Sure, but that doesn't make them a 'necessity'

¯_(ツ)_/¯ some of us think it’s essential to not have our things stolen is all

Yes. Treat it like debit. This is how I use mine and have used it ever since I got it 5 or so years ago. Granted I don't have tons of expenses at my age, but I really only use it when out and I don't feel like paying with cash or for online purchases, i.e Amazon. Kinda helps that I don't buy pointless stuff.

Credit cards are good for building credit. You just treat them like debit cards and pay them off every month

It depends. You will need good credit if you ever want to qualify for a good mortgage, or a good rate on any loan, really. On top of that, if you get a card with good perks and always pay off your balance, it totally becomes worth it - but you have to remember these cards usually have a higher interest rate.

It's risky if you can't keep up with your balance and payments.

if you don't want to buy a car or house then yeah there's no point.

i don't have a credit card either, but i'm planning on renting or using rideshares so idc.

but i'm planning on renting or using rideshares so idc

Forever?

if you don't want to buy a car or house then yeah there's no point.

I mean, Dave Ramsey claims that he does not use a credit card and was able to get a house without needing one. You could argue because he's rich, but again he was able to attain all of that money without fame or a credit card.

One of my brothers is really into Ramsey and has gotten after me about how a credit score is an "I love debt score" and how terrible it is. I just point out that when I tried to get my first apartment I couldn't even get a utility bill in my name because I had no credit; on the other hand now I'm getting at least 45% off my car insurance because of that same credit score and I've never paid a cent in interest to boot. And I can get apartments/utilities in my name, too. Ramsey might have some good ideas but I really don't think credit cards are as horrible as people make them out to be. They're a tool, just like anything else; they can work for you and help or make your life miserable, but it's all in how you use them.

My husband and I have bought a house and car without either of us having ever had any credit cards. I think as long as you don't have actively shitty credit, the debt to income ratio is the most important thing.

I am woefully inexperienced on the subject but I believe large purchases like cars and homes will need a credit check, which you might not pass if you never used a credit card. I only know this because a college professor of mine never had one then ran into trouble when she wanted to get a car (or a car loan?).

If you remember to pay it off in full every month you'll be fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcw4IqvGfpE I found this video on how to buy cars without car loans or a credit card (It doesn't mean free literally, but with how the money is managed, you might as well call it free). I think that this video is brilliant.

Huh. Better get to saving then.

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Somehow the reasoning of "You need this in order to be considered financially capable, but miss once and you'll be fucked" doesn't sound very fair.

Not if you miss a single payment, but don't make a habit of it. Also if you use the card responsibly, it's not hard at all to keep up. Especially if you didn't need it to begin with. Just have some of your fixed monthly bills go to the card, and have an autopayment set up to pay them off. Don't use it for anything else (except maybe emergencies). Boom, good credit history.

Depends where you live. I honestly don't know many places outside the U.S. it is that big of a deal, Maybe getting a good rate on a car loan in the U.K. but even there for a mortgage it comes down to your income and deposit size, what's way more important is that you never had any defaults.

Credit is so easy to teach to your kids too. Just tell them to spend as if they have to pay it immediately. Like a delayed debit card.

I'm 31 and repairing my credit as well. I hope to own a home by 40 but that also means paying on it until I'm in my 70's. This sucks

As someone who had lousy credit when they were younger, marrying someone with excellent credit will rocket your credit up so fast. Just make sure everything is on Autopay or have the responsible person take care of all the bills. Otherwise, it won't work at all.

I just got my credit score into the 700's from a low of just under 500 3 years ago.

So I got myself an amazon credit card, I use the service enough it was worth it.

Now I had planned to use it just like I have always used my debit card, never spend money if I don't have it and I use YNAB to ensure I am always well within budget.

Then my transmission went out and I had no choice, it was either put 2k on my credit card or deal with no car while trying to raise a family and work.

So I put 2k on my credit card, and now I have 600 in the bank and no way to pay it, 24% interest it going to break me in half!

I don't care about credit scores because they don't exist where I live!

God bless the EU

FuCkiNg riOT to DestROy ThiS CredIT sCoRe shIt

No, seriously, in my country this bullshit doesn't even exist. That and saving for retirement, and having a pants-on-head retarded healthcare system, I would have died from pure anxiety by now if I were American.

Yeah it's insane how important the credit score scam is in America. I'm glad we don't have it here either.

Where do you live, and how do lenders there determine your credit worthiness when giving you a loan?

France, and they'll ask for either how stable your job is, and who can be a guarantee for you. There are insurances too, if you have a medical problem and can't pay up, which are evaluated independently. They can also check the number of loans you already have. Also the credit card phenomenon existed in France a few years ago, but kinda died down with the new regulations, so I guess you don't have as many people piling up credits until everything collapses. When you are strangled by too many credits you can also ask the Bank of France for help and negotiate a new payment rhythm (it's for the worst cases though).

I'd say credit score's aren't too important until you're looking to buy a house.

Credit scores are important for many things. Car loans, car insurance prices, mortgages and more. It is not hard to get a good credit score - pay everything on time and open credit cards that you treat as debit cards.

I'm not denying their importance, but those going through college, racking up loans and debt, shouldn't be worrying too much about that stuff. Obviously don't completely blow it off, but I'd personally say credit scores are most valuable when looking to purchase homes.

Even when you rent an apartment they care about your credit score. Or you could settle for living in a crappy place.

Awe fuck, you reminded me of my medical debt from when i was a kid from high school

Also, make sure you have a diverse credit history. Just paying off your monthly bill is not enough. It shows you can pay things off but that you only have experience with basic bills, rather than more complex installment plans.

Save some money and get a personal loan, and pay it off immediately. Or finance a car if you have a big deposit ready. Talk to a professional first to see what best for you.

My credit score was okay but my diversity was weak and it really hurt me when I needed a loan.

I just got my credit together at 29, I finally have a score in the low 700s and growing. It’s so difficult.

I can definitely relate. I'm a couple of years older than you, but I'm finally ready to buy a house this year. Now, the hardest part is finding one I want.

EDIT: a word

Man I've cared since I was 17. Big bros ftw.

I don't think most 25 year olds these days are looking into buying though lol

Not Exercising!!! Never stop. Keep an active lifestyle if you can. It only gets harder and harder to get back into it.

**edit: exercise isn’t the mistake. Stopping is!

As a teen who only studies, browses Reddit, and sleeps, I really should start not sitting down all day

My unsolicited advice is this: find friends who already do a lot of stuff outside. Whether that means joining a sports team (or something like ski team, or tennis, or whatever), or finding a hobby or volunteer position that gets you outside (day camp counselor, hiking trail maintenance crew, etc), meet and befriend people who have a passion for getting outside, and you will suddenly find yourself outside a lot more. It is a lot harder to say "I'm just going to be lazy today" when that means you have to cancel plans and disappoint your friends.

When I was 17 I went from being almost completely sedentary to exercising 4x/week when my grief counselor recommended I take a martial arts class. Having people around me who were at varying ages and weight ranges working toward the same goal really changed my work ethic in a positive way. Years later I weigh roughly 40lbs less than I did at the end of high school (it's creeping up on me since I took a desk job last year but i'm making lifestyle changes to correct that), I try to lift heavy weights 3x/weekly and now that winter is truly over I'm making a point to get outside and move more for cardio. Seeing family in their fifties and sixties and so on struggling with weight-related health complications only encourages me that much more to keep doing what I do. Put in the work now so you can suffer less later.

Dude, this is a really good idea!

There's a small martial arts gym a 3 minute walk away, and even some WuShu gym somewhere in the mountains of where I live (I live in China so it makes sense)

I'll really consider joining ! Thanks for the idea!

I'd love to be in your position. I've always wanted to learn Wing Chun or another material arts but there's literally no manual arts gyms around here that seem to be legitimate.

Jiu jitsu is probably the most popular martial arts, maybe there's a better chance this one is in your area.

Taekwondo has been fairly popular since it became part of the olympics as well. Look for schools affiliated with the WTF if you want to try the south Korean style, while ITF-affiliated schools teach the north Korean style.

North Korean Taekwando sounds pretty rad. I know there's a lot of kicking, but how about punching? Wondering because I have wrist pains and hitting stuff would proably not cure it :>

Man, you get to legally beat the shit out of someone too!(or in my case, probably get beat the shit out of)

Actually, having martial arts skills, blackbelt or no, doesn't give you a legal right to asssult someone. Aside from getting into trouble with law enforcement and having to go to court if the victim decides to press charges, once your school catches wind of it your rank may be stripped and you can be expelled from your school at the headmaster's discretion. It isn't a license to go out and be a vigilante; it's a symbol of how much you've accomplished in your sport.

Don't crush my dreams

Fine I'll go kill some level 3 slime

This is the key for me. I don't/won't "work out" - it's just not enjoyable. Instead, I do yardwork, hike, ride my bike, walk the dogs (sometimes for almost 10 miles if I'm bored), etc.

Dogs are another thing that make you move around - some will start destroying your stuff if you don't exercise with them.

I was in the best shape of my life at the end of college, when I biked at least 2 miles to/from classes each day, and walked around campus as part of my job. I live 9 bike-unfriendly miles from work right now, but hope to live with biking distance the next time I move.

9 miles isn't that long of a bike ride if you have a good path and a good bike to ride on.

Agreed. Unfortunately, those 9 miles are along a highly-trafficked road that goes through industrial areas and around an airport, with speed limits of 35-40 mph. There's a lot of debris in the gutter, people in my area aren't used to bikes being in the road, cold snowy winters make large potholes and more debris, and sidewalks are uneven when they do exist.

If there was a good path, I'd aim for biking at least once/week in good weather.

My unsolicited advice is this: find friends who

well that was a good idea while it lasted

I would TOTALLY recommend checking if your state has a Conservation Corps. It doesn't even need to be your state the one I did had members from across the country. You get paid a stipend (it's basically just enough to exist) while camping with your team in gorgeous state parks and spending the day working on the trails. It's really physical outdoor work but it's a lot of fun, very fulfilling and you meet a ton of really cool people.

find friends

You lost me

My rebuttal to your advice is that he/she should just find a gym and start. That's how I started working out, and from there I felt more inclined to join friends in physical activities. Some people find themselves nervous at first and giving yourself a base of confidence is never a bad start.

Curious about this. What made it less intimidating for you to go to the gym surrounded by people who may be in great shape and know what they're doing when you have to learn everything vs, let's say, hiking on your own?

I guess I never really cared. I started at the gym when I was 17 and smaller than most. I never felt intimidated because well who cares if other people are in better shape than you; the gym is for you to better yourself and nobody cares.

Not OP, but personallyI am an introvert to some degree. Watching some movies that inspire me to get in shape (or Youtube, which is full of them) and eat healthier (which, gotta say, is key) and then grabbing my notepad and going to the gym alone, that is enough.

The notepad keeps track of my progress, sets, weight, etc. I try to beat my previous performance or match it. I am not that into chatting all the time or competing. I also don't find the gym that intimidating. The younger guys all have crap form, listen to their mp3s, and stare at themselves in the mirror. More power to them but I have my personal mission that has nothing to do with them.

Dwayne Johnson(The Rock) has inspired me a lot (I am a beanpole next to him but he is very positive). And others, too. In my real life, though, there is really no one I want to be a gym partner with. Not saying I never will, but at the moment I don't need one.

There are a probably more people that go to the gym that are in poor to average shape then you think. Those that are are in good shape rarely acknowledge your presence.

I bit the bullet and went. I was conscious as fuck the first few times. but soon I realized that people just don't care. They're either focused on their routine or being self-conscious on their own. Some will even help and befriend you. Gym douchebags are quite rare.

hiking on your own

They were talking about activities with other people tho

I feel terrible because I go to a university with one of the best rec centers in the country (included in tuition) yet I almost never go there. In the fall, my wife and I will be moving to an apartment on campus (long story), and I know she'd make a great gym partner for me, but our rec center doesn't even offer monthly or annual passes for anyone except staff/alumni, and day passes are like $7. Just my luck that it's gonna cost a shit ton to try to get fit.

And we'd jog if we could, but she has hip problems :/

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I feel you. My gym-going record was for 4 weeks (3 times per week). Just felt it got so repetitive with the exercises which took a toll on the motivation. It's just super hard to keep up with something when you're not enjoying it at all.

Figure I'm just gonna start running instead since it's easy to understand and doesn't take as much time.

Hey just a PSA to you and all who read, rollerblading exists. Yes, people still do it. You cover alot more ground than running (thus more stimulating and motivating) and low impact. Equipment is ridiculously portable. If you get really into it we have our own marathons across the world.

I understand that, but I'm not going to agree and say most people don't enjoy the gym. Some, sure, but not most.

I live in a really secluded community where it's just my high school and all the families and teachers in one place, so the last time I went to the gym, my chemistry teacher was behind me on the bike machine and my literature teacher was next to me on the treadmill (it was as awkward as it sounds). I promised a friend that I would be there but he never showed up, so I've been just kind of avoiding that area now.. I'll try to start again though! It's free to access where I live (part of my school complex)

I am also considering joining a gym, but don’t really know how to start working out.

Any tips for specific things to work on for a beignner?

Check out /r/fitness and look for a beginner routine. I just started trying out different machines and found what I liked until I started on different programs. Been following various programs for a while now.

True story: the only time I had abs as a teenager involved working for the Forest Service on a trail maintenance crew. Minimum wage, 40 hours a week doing things like putting in signs and digging drainage ditches. Steady use of a rock bar = abs. Can't recommend it enough, as long as you stay away from poison ivy.

Find friends

Well crap

Yeah that would be nice. There are lots of outdoor activities I would want to do if any of my friends were interested, but they're not generally into that, and it's hard to find the initiative to do it alone.

I really like this advice. I'm already fairly active because I'm on my feet 8 hours a day and move frequently while lifting at least 15 pounds repeatedly at times. Once I go to 12 hour shifts and work less days I'll take this into account.

I just started volunteering at a local dog shelter this past weekend. My arms felt like jello after a 30 minute walk with the biggest german shepard black lab mix who happened to give me a run for my money. I am unfortunately pretty busy but I seriously can't wait to go back again.

This. My friends play soccer during school lunch, and it's the only exercise I get all day.

You lost me at "Find Friends"

My brother says the best thing he ever did for his health was getting a job as a camp councilor for a Boy Scout camp. They walk everywhere, and the camp is something like 5 miles square, with uneven dirt trails everywhere. He was also the Wilderness Survival instructor, so he’d go on a dedicated 5 mile backpacking hike (for those who don’t hike, it’s seriously surprising how much a heavy pack can slow you down... Especially on uneven terrain,) each week. On any given day, he was hiking 10-20 miles just for his daily activities.

He says the first week is always really fucking rough because he isn’t used to it. Sore legs, sore hips, lethargy, etc... But then he acclimates, has more energy, and isn’t afraid to walk across camp just to get something from his tent that he forgot. Then he gets back home after the summer is over, and those same habits bleed over into his home life - Instead of driving to the corner store for a snack, he’ll just walk.

This is gold. I remember being a boy scout out at Philmont and doing our mandatory trail service one day and let me tell ya, that is some tough but rewarding work!

This is so American lol. Not in a bad way, just 'day camp counselor' and 'hiking trail crew' aren't terms I've ever even heard before.

Amen, though. Make exercise part of your daily life. Don't try to force yourself to have a gym routine if it doesn't work for you. Instead, make your friends and hobbies your exercise. Make the exercise incidental to the activity.

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Lmao I don't even have friends who want to have plans to begin with

I said it's harder when you have to cancel plans, not that you never cancel plans. I've absolutely cancelled on people, but I do it a hell of a lot less than I ever did while I was trying to go to a gym. Even if I did have a gym buddy, it never felt like my presence was required.

R/fitness bruh

The part that sucks about this is that outside activities can chuck rocks. They suck eggs.

I remember when I was in shape in college, worked out so I could get laid. It sucked the whole way through. Mad jealous of people who can do un-fun stuff that keeps them in shape and love it.

I mean, I never work out. That's the key. I go on hikes in order to see gorgeous places that you can't drive to. It sucks during, but is so worth it at the end. I also walk dogs at a shelter. Puppy kisses are a very fun thing! Plus doing things other than walking, running, or biking are a great way to exercise without it being boring and un-fun, so try some white water rafting, or skiing, or rock climbing, or horseback riding. There are so many things aside from running or weightlifting that can get you active while still being fun!

If you find those things fun, great! But same was said to me with rugby and rock climbing

You tried two things and think that every other outdoor activity is just as not-fun? I don't enjoy rugby or rock climbing either, but I didn't cross frisbee golf off the list because rugby wasn't fun, or say no to horseback riding because I didn't have fun rock climbing. It's like food, you generally need to try things before you can say you don't like them.

You tried two things and think that every other outdoor activity is just as not-fun?

Did you expect me to list every single activity that I tried or are you not smart enough to understand truncated lists used as examples?

I have a lot of friends who do stuff. The problem is that they never want to do stuff with me :(

Clarification: No one ever asks me to go to things.

I have a lot of friends

r/absolutelynotmeirl

Don't wait for them to ask. I made that mistake for basically my whole childhood. They probably think you don't want to hang out with them, because you don't invite them to things! So if you know your friend likes to hike, ask them if they can show you their favorite local trail, or ask them to help you learn how to do insert activity here. People generally like to teach others about things they are passionate about.

Here's the thing. I always ask people to do things. Always. I've almost never had anyone ask me if they want to do things. It gets really tiring when you're the one asking 99% of the time.

Me and three friends started a workout group where we workout during the week (they do it 4/5 days I do 2/5 because of work and school)

Been going on for almost a month and I've lost almost 10 lbs.

Joining a sports team in high school with no prior sporting experience is impossible. I tried since I had a friend who played. It was one fucking miserable season of hard practices and sitting the freezing cold bench at games. In addition, all eyes are on your fuck-uppery. And it's high school, so the little fuckers care that you suck.

Then don't join a sports team. I feel like a lot of people forget that there are a lot of other things to do outside aside from sports. Gardening is a great one if you have a nearby community garden! Or walking dogs at your local shelter, or even helping to set up and tear down a fundraising event for a local charity. It's all exercise!

Dude, people who do sports and are active outside won't want to hang around with a lazy bastard like me. Easier said than done.

I never said sports had to be involved. I bet you have more in common with people who also go out and do things than you realize. I became friends with my current hiking buddies long before we ever went hiking, because we all attended a monthly bad-movie-night together. The others I befriended through a super nerdy professional organization that we all belonged to. One of the members of our group plays video games all the time, but she carves out a bit of time to go outside. The people you befriend don't need to be hardcore gym rats or ultramarathon runners, just normal people who happen to do fun things outside on a semi-regular basis.

It's same advice when it comes to going to a gym. Much easier if you have a friend to browbeat you into going when you feel lazy.

Where's a good place to find friends like that?

Volunteering groups (for trail maintenance type stuff), Meetup groups, clubs at your school or physical education classes at college (I went ice climbing with one of these, it was so cool!), Or get a summer job with your local parks and rec department.

Browsing Reddit while I work out, Ill do a set of chest and sit and browse while doing my rest., then I do another set.

Literally doing chest and browsing Reddit in between sets right now.

No wonder the bench press rack is never open

Yeah no offense but everyone who keeps saying this is being stupid. I do my set, Reddit for a minute and thirty seconds, and go back to my next set. Everyone is acting like you can’t possibly Reddit for one to two minutes. You just need to be disciplined.

well most of the time people linger for several minutes between sets. You can't possibly do your sets and go reddit on a treadmill or something

I bought a phone mount for my spinning bike to watch netflix while I exercise, I already lost like 10kg since february

This worked for my dad as well. I put an iPad on his treadmill in a non-removeable mount and my mom says he'll literally just walk on it for 2-3 hours after dinner while watching his shows. He's lost almost 60lb since last February.

Glad it's working for you too!!!

What a coincidence I'm doing exactly that right now.

Oh man, please tell me you're letting people work in with you, or monitoring your rest time, or at least staying conscious of whether people are waiting to get on the bench.

I don't want to downvote you(!), but there are way too many people sitting on all the equipment, playing with their phones at my gym.

I don't think they mean to take as long as they do between sets, the phone just sucks them in.

So you’re the asshole hogging the only flat bench at the gym...

lol come on man, appropriate rest, then do your redditing over a post workout snack/meal

Please, don’t do this when the gym is crowded. I promise if you do you’ll be hated.

I should mention I have my set up at my garage since my son was born. He can watch cartoons in the garage with me while I do my 1 hour workout and browse Reddit.

Lol. Not taking trash here but If you’re browsing Reddit are you really working out for an hour? Different strokes, I guess. But when I’m in the gym it’s to work. Not to browse.

I do 1 minute rests for lifting days. When Im hitting the bag i have a timer for 3 minute rounds and 1 minute rests. Just have to have discipline.

Don't rest?

There are lots of assholes who take 5-10 minutes between each set while they browse reddit as people wait for the equipment

Sure, but you don't know why they are. Maybe they have an injury and need to take it slow, or that's the rest time for the exercise they're doing.

You shouldn't judge because those people paid for their time as well, is what I'm saying.

Five minute rest time? No offense but you should be training for powerlifting and rocking 1Rms at that point. If you have an injury that bad, you may need to take an actual break from the gym or get a PT.

5 min rests between sets isn't that crazy when it comes to squats, deadlifts or bench

Yeah, if I'm doing a bench 5x5 at 80% of my one rep max and I'm reaching failure on the last rep of the last three sets, you'd better fucking believe I want those five mins of rest in between!

That was a mistake on my part, I meant this in regards to generally having a "go at your own pace" mindset. The point is that people have different goals and you shouldn't place arbitrary personal timelines on them. You yourself just provided an example where even that number isn't invalid, and off the top of my head I can also think of GVT as an example of an exercise with high rest times.

Even 3RMs only take 1-2 mins to rest for.

That much rest time is ridiculous for any goal. Honestly. It is. If you think it’s not then you should reevaluate your program.

wow you've never lifted heavy

I don't take lots of time, because I don't need it. But I can easily see why some people might if they're in a bad situation physically, and I won't judge them for it because that's ridiculous. People aren't fucking stoic weight-monsters, and sometimes they need more of a breather.

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5 minutes for heavy squats, bench and deadlifts is not unreasonable. More than that in a crowded weight room is not really fair to the other people, even if you “need” more time. At least invite someone to work in on the bench if people are obviously waiting while you browse your phone.

5 minutes between sets even when lifting heavy is counterproductive. Anyone with basic exercise science knowledge will tell you that

Not entirely disagreeing with you but it's definitely fairly common for powerlifters to take 3-5 minutes in between heavy sets. Obviously that doesn't apply to the vast majority of people sitting around when the gym is crowded, but I'd be hesitant to generalize so definitively.

Come on, that was a clear exaggeration. I've literally never seen it happening. I'm arguing for people taking their own time free of judgement, not for a specific 5-10 minute rest validity.

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I hang around gyms plenty, but thanks for your condescension.

You the person who rests 5 to 10 minutes and takes up a piece of equipment for a half hour while doing 3 sets? Bc don't be that guy.

Lol, nah man I got my set up at the garage. My wife gets upset though If im hitting the bag and shes trying to do laundry.

Why when doing laundry? Folding? My wife got annoyed when I'd hit my bag if she was watching TV. Took it down haha. Also had a set up in garage but I'm a pansy. Too cold or too hot for me. Gotta have that climate control!

Lol the bag is hanging in the middle of my garage and it starts swinging when I hit it so she has to play a game of not getting hit by the bag while carrying a bag of laundry. I have timer set up at 3 minute rounds so she gets annoyed waiting there and just tries to dodge her way to the laundry.

Funny you say that, I'm doing that at this very moment. Chest and all. Weird.

It’s good to have proper 3 min breaks between heavier compound sets, perfect time for Reddit.

Honestly makes being in the gym so easy but it gets results.

I'm doing that right now at the gym. It's a good way to relax in between sets and not rush back in too quickly.

Lol literally doing that right. Got the exercise part down, now just need to work on getting a non-temp job.

I do this, but have to keep on top of it. I have, at times, taken too long between sets too many times and then find myself in a hurry, which is never good for form. (I work out in the mornings so have a set amount of time avail between getting up and work time.

Just stay out of the curl rack.

All chest no leggs Now I have a smoothie. Now me and Wifey make a movie.

Yeah, but then you rest for ten minutes every time.

Browsing reddit on the bike or stair machine is the best way to make 20 minutes of cardio feel like 7 minutes.

I hope you’re not the asshole at the gym sitting on a bench just fuckin around on your phone the whole time. Those people suck!

I've started doing this with flashcards and mock exam questions, and it's pretty legit. Allowed me to get another 1-2 hours of study/day in.

If you have enough time to browse reddit while you rest, you're resting way too long

I browse reddit fitness while I work out for new ideas

Are you the fuck that's always hogging the bench spending more time on your phone than actually working out?

Literally what I am doing right now.

I’m literally just finished a set of squats and picked up my phone to Reddit while I catch my breath lol

That will piss a lot of people off.

Reading this during chest day. Glad there are more people like me.

Just DONT sit on the machine will you browse reddit...

I'm resting on a set of Military Press right now. If you make it look like you're logging the set you don't get judged!

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what it you're already in one

asking for friend

If you can afford it and have space, you can pick up rowing machine pretty cheap second hand. Just use one of those while you watch some TV and the exercise will help.

Not to say it will solve all your problems, but you'll be better physically if nothing else.

I wouldn't suggest a rowing machine unless you're a rower. You'll hurt your back otherwise.

Not a rower and have a history of back problems from when I was younger, never had an issue with rowing. That said, I had a personal trainer show me proper form for it, so that probably helps a lot.

Push yourself through it, and it'll be that much harder. Yeah, you don't feel like doing shit, but you kind of just have to.

Blast some music, get yourself pumped up, and just go and do it and don't think about it, like sky diving or something. Eliminate any hesitation. Don't do that thing where you sit down and consider whether you want to do it or not, because you don't want to and that's that. We already know the answer if you are just going to sit and think about it. Instead, just get ready to do it while you think about it and just get started. You can always stop 5 minutes in. Force yourself to at least get ready and try it out for 5 minutes even if you are deciding not to do it in the end. Just at least make it a habit to put your sneakers on and step outside and run for 5 minutes. Make it something you do every day whether you end up actually running or not.

What did it for me was getting an elliptical. The ease of being able to just hop on and work out for 45 minutes without thinking about it was the game changer. I usually go for 55 minutes now and then 10 minute shower. No more time is taken away from my day and I feel that much better for it. I went for about 4 or 5 years skipping exercise because of my stressful job and it really fucked me up. I'm just now getting into it and it's really fucking hard but the main thing is to make it a habit. It doesn't matter if you work out really hard for an hour one day if you stop for two weeks. It needs to be something you keep doing, a routine. That's how you get results and feel better from it.

Exercise isn't a cure for depression but it will sure as fuck help. And if it doesn't help as much as you need it to, talk to a doctor as well. Sometimes we need both a healthy lifestyle AND medication to get through the day. That's 100% fine. Just be thankful they came up with these wondrous little magic pills that can alleviate depression and take advantage we live in a modern society with this knowledge.

And even if you don't start exercising, if depression is serious enough for it to interfere with what you do, talk to a fucking doctor. Even that is hard with depression, but push through it because that's not something you want stealing a decade of your life away when you could be enjoying life.

Your back will thank you

Used to be the same as you, but if you don't mind me saying I've found that exercise really helps concentration. I find that going for even a short walk in the evenings before I revise really helps me to stay focused.

hi! i hope this is some helpful unsolicited advice.

i was somewhat “active” throughout high school & college (uncompetitive dance & then fairly regular yoga), but then that all went right out the window when i started law school at 22. from 22 to 25, i was just about as sedentary as anyone could be, with a terribly unhealthy diet to match. i’d basically just stuff myself full of takeout whenever i remembered to feed myself, coffee at all other points of the day. phenomenal, i’m sure.

this continued after graduation into my intensive study period for the bar exam. i had completely forgotten how to take care of myself properly. unsurprisingly, i didn’t pass the bar that first time, and soon after moved back home.

moving back home wasn’t the greatest thing for me, but it did help me seriously get my shit together in a few critical areas. for one, i joined the gym that my mom goes to (at a discount!) and got a trainer there who happened to be about my age. i also started eating healthier because, well, there was no way to be eating worse than i had been (also i love cooking for my mom, she’s a cutie, and we make healthy-ish meals!).

my trainer wound up being a godsend. he’s essentially the human equivalent of a golden retriever, but he also taught me — someone who had no idea what to do with any sort of weight when he met me — how to deadlift, press, curl, etc. all with correct form. today, i feel strong, happy, and very proud of my progress. more than anything, my trainer is thrilled with the leaps and bounds i’ve made since october, and he is just so positive all the time. this is going to sound super lame, but i also feel like i’ve made a real friend that i’m going to miss a lot when (fingers crossed) my bar results come in and my job takes me permanently cross-country.

a lot of people will tell you that exercising cured their depression, anxiety, etc. and i’m here to tell you that lmao i WISH it had that kind of magic powers. however, i’d be lying if i didn’t say that getting into weight-lifting (regularly, with a trainer, + some cardio) didn’t drastically improve my body image, self-esteem, and general confidence. oh and also my physical health!

it’s an investment THAT IS WORTH IT. trust me. i’m the last person you’d ever expect to see in a gym and here i am writing an emotional-ass screed on reddit to someone who didn’t ask. ANYWAYS. love and luck to you all! get you a golden retriever esque trainer!

Thanks for the advice! I'll definitely try to start

Find some good podcasts and listen while you work out. 25 minutes a day is good enough for basic maintenance of you body and you really don't even have to leave your room. Make sure you throw some cardio in there with some butt kicks. Even the bare minimum makes a world of difference in physical and mental health.

I second this. I always listen to a podcast while I run. The time flies by, I just listen for a while and suddenly I've been running for half an hour.

I also second the "bare minimum" part. Just convince yourself to go walk/run for 5 minutes at least. Chances are you'll be motivated to go for longer by the time you get out there, but getting out there in the first place is the hardest part.

get into the habit of doing that shit in the morning now while your body is still very forgiving of the enterprise of living, if you think you're tired in the morning now just fuckin wait

I actually started waking up early just to start exercising, but now all of the morning time is used to do more homework/study

Maybe I'll start when things start to get less chaotic

Sitting all day is very bad for you and you should at least get up every hour, stretch, and walk around a little.

Start now. For real. Seeing your body change in the span of months is incredible, and you'll never regret the strength it'll give you or the little blessings others take for granted.

I got out of the habit years ago and regret it, but the time I spent being physical and active when I was younger has given lasting benefit -- its the difference between a beer gut dad bod thing and being an actual potato.

Not "I should" . Do it.
Join a local gyms kickboxing class. No one makes fun of someone looking to improve themselves.

No one makes fun of someone looking to improve themselves.

I mean, that's objectively wrong.

Yeah that happens all day every day lol. Some people are going to be judgmental assholes, the point is “Fuck em” and laugh all the way to Gainzville. There’s no way around being an awkward beginner until you do something long enough that you’re no longer awkward and no longer a beginner. Accept it and strive for betterment. Only person you should be comparing yourself to is your former self.

I probably should consider the same.

Not all day, you only need to take 30 mins, that's the beauty of it :) Then you can waste the other 23hrs and 30. Life is good!

Do you drive? Start by not driving if you don't need to. Is the store 10-15 min walk away? Walk there when grocery shopping. And walk home.

Is your job or school 30 min or less walk away? Walk there.

Well I live in this secluded area where school and a cafe and a gym are 2 mins walk away, and the nearest store is 30 minutes drive away, but I will definitely start perhaps taking longer paths!

Not exercising during my teen years is my biggest regret. I’m 28 now, for reference.

/r/fitness is a great start

Planking will kick the shit out of your abs with very little time commitment. The downside being that you have to do planking.

Want more of a reason? Prolonged periods of sitting have been linked as independent risk factors of many diseases and mortality. Meaning even if you workout once a day but sit the rest of the day, you’re still at risk. Get in the habit of needing to be moving. Try to get up every 30 minutes for a couple minutes!

My advice for young adults is to have (at least) 3 hobbies: one that's good for the mind (reading, puzzles, etc.), one that's good for the body (exercise of any kind), and one that's good for the soul (art, music, dance)

That's good advice. Thanks!

im taking this as a personal attack

Find a physical habit you enjoy! Some people enjoy going to the gym, some people like physical games, some people like more extreme sports and some just enjoy being outside!

Not only is it great for you physically, but the mental side is also amazing. People tend to find themselves more excited about life and happier when they have something to work at.

I've never met a person who doesn't enjoy at least one of those things.

Find a sport you love, there's so many out there you've got to like at least one, and it's a great way to meet friends, get in shape, and gain a lifelong hobby

walking counts, as long as you do a lot of it. walk young motherfucker, walk

It's so easy at your age.

I remember being a fairly inactive teen (for my day, nothing like what's considered inactive now, I would've been considered quite active today).

Anyway, I had the opportunity to take 13 weeks of weightlifting in my high school, and I did. Part of the course was charting progress and, it didn't matter much how much weight you lifted, your grade was based solely on technique and the organization of your approach; did you create a good workout schedule hitting all of the muscle groups in a reasonable rotation, was the balance of stretching and cardio to lifting sensible based on your stated goals, did you log your workouts correctly, etc? Then the teacher spent all of his time trying to get everyone to lift less weight, so a big focus on technique.

No one wasn't impressed with the progress they made. Keep in mind the stretching, cardio, and diet were not actually part of it, you were just supposed to schedule in what you would do if you were doing those things, but you were only graded on technique of lifts. Still, in just 13 weeks everyone except football players at least doubled the weights they were lifting. Everyone felt noticably stronger, and many of the kids just decided to become more active because they felt more capable and liked it.

Fast forward 15 years, I decide it's time to shape up, so I just do the exact same thing. It did not come nearly as easily. Every gain was hard fought.

It's so much easier to get strong and start strong than it is to try to come back to it later.

I was you. I kind of still am you. The biggest difference is that I'm 25 and I'm graduating with a Master's in Aerospace Engineering from my dream school. However along the way, I really did let my body down. Ive been 30 lbs overweight for 5 years now. I got fat as a sophomore, and never put in time to get back into shape since I always made the excuse of putting school and clubs first.

Theres is definitely a balance you need to make. Just make sure exercise is actually in that balance.

Dude, just get out for a walk. I legit lost 40 pounds in a year in college by eating marginally better (read 1-2 less pizzas a week) and walking every other day

Try finding a hiking club or some other fitness activity that sounds enjoyable to you! It's a lot easier when you have other people around to motivate each other :)

I personally recommended joining cross country and/or track if your school has it; I met some of my best friends through both sports and it’s a great way to stay in shape.

The simplest, easiest practice (can be combined with any other practice for better effects) would be to stand up every now and then. If you have the money, getting desk that can switch between sitting and standing modes can help a lot too.

Keeping up with whatever sports or hobbies you enjoy is a big help, if you continue them through your 20s they'll probably keep you going and you'll likely keep them up after kids/whatever you do later.

Also, at work I find some days I'm stuck in meetings or at my computer. I got a Fitbit and the reminder that I haven't moved in 50 minutes is an eye opener to just get up, move a bit, get water, whatever, it's a big help

You dont have to go nuts with weightlifting or going to the gym, just do smth you love.

I also only studie, browse reddit/youtube, play games, see my girlfriend for 95% of my time.

But in the rest 5% i love to ride my bike, when im studying its my go to to get my head clear and some fresh wind, its refreshing powers you out and you are fast! :D

While i studied i learned to do a wheelie for around 100meters or even longer!

Start by finding some tunes you dig.

Get some earphones, pick a destination (Far side of the park, cool old cemetery, book store you dig, etc...).

Lace up some trusty footware. Go.

It's not an event, nor a competition. Just explore a little.

Just to throw another voice in here, even taking walks when you have an extra 10 min will be a big step in the right direction. I love walking and listening to audio books. Plus if I want to feel mentally productive too, I make it a non fiction book.

Does your school not have weight lifting classes? Sign up for those

Coed anything is a great way to get out and meet new people! Softball, tennis, volleyball.... Join a club, explore new interests, anything you can. Nothing wrong with some gaming and online time, but (as someone who just had his 40th birthday) your teens and 20's are not best spent alone. So much to do and learn. So much to experience out in the world.

I really want to, but I live in a really isolated, small community without many sports/friends to begin with. I will try though! Especially when I get to college!

Seriously, switch it up now while you’re still in your teens. By the time you’re in your 20’s, people will be pretty damn good at whatever it is you’re just now starting to learn, and that turned a lot of people I know off of staying active later in life.

That's true, I'll start trying!

I can relate. I never really enjoyed exercising in any form. But 3 years ago I started going for daily walks. For the first year it was only around my block or so - 1/2 mile at most. Super easy but the habit was formed and I grew to love it. The scenery, the daily & seasonal changes, the increased awareness of my surroundings, things I expected and things I didn't, and on & on...Now I still don't "exercise" but walk 2 miles everyday, rain or shine (within reason, Hurricane Harvey had me inside for days) and regardless of location. I'm a full blown peripatetic - one who walks habitually & extensively.

Physiological benefits aside, what keeps me at it are the psychological aspects: relaxing, meditative, reflective. I feel, function, and sleep better for it.

Edit: spelling

I used to walk a lot, but because of the pressure to keep straight As/the extremely cold weather where I live I stopped. I'll continue as it gets warmer though (where I live, it's freaking April and it's still SO cold outside, stupid global warming)

If you're in your teens now you're in an even better position to start with all the natural growth hormones and testosterone production (of you're a guy) happening though puberty. Teens will often see crazy amounts of progress compared with older adults.

I highly recommend checking out r/fitness! Even a beginner program like Strong Lifts where you're only working out 3x per week can make a huge difference!

Seriously, I started when I was 17 before I could get hurt easily. Now in my late 20's and I've only missed a few weeks over the years of not working out 3 times a week. I'm not super ripped or anything but it kept me happy it low periods and it's as good as saving money when you are young yet even easier to accomplish!

Hello, fellow teen, if most of your free time is taken up by studying, you really need to fix your study skills.

Nah, I actually study a lot less than the majority of my peers, I just like to sleep earlier so I work from right after school until 11pm ish

APs are in 2 weeks and all my teachers have been pretty incompetent, so I have to study a whole lot of content by myself, hence not having any free time

Take pe even after you don't need the credit

Learning to do body weight exercises in your room means you never have to actually do anything besides buying a pull up bar.

Not to excuse laziness, but if you're a teenager and haven't ever really exercised you haven't even begun to missed the window to start.

Don't let your lack of exercise yesterday stop you from exercising today, and tomorrow!

After reading all these comments I'll start!

As someone who is most likely between 15-20 years older than you. Do it, get up and go for a walk or just do some basic calisthenics in your house between commercial breaks or between episodes. I didn’t, and now I have had to change my lifestyle to get healthy so I don’t die in my 50s and enjoy all the shit with my kids that my dad missed because he was in his 50s when he died. You do not want to have a conversation with your doctor in your mid 30s where they basically say fix it or you won’t see your kids graduate high school.

You will 100% get laid more if you get in shape

That's not my goal, but okay!

I think I'm spoiled because I live in the Rockies but hiking! Just throw on a podcast and explore new areas. Feels like an adventure each time. The trick for me is to walk as slow as I can well please. Running and getting out of breath makes me wanna die but just walking is totally tolerable after you do it a few times. And studies show that running is only marginally better for your fitness than walking. It really helps shed the pounds. Oh and set a time limit when just starting. 20 minutes feels like it's over in a flash but work your way up

I started once i finished college. Hard to work out when you have less than 8 hours free per day, unless you don't need sleep

If I could go back I would have continued weight lifting after high school. I would be a beast today. Take advantage of your hormones as a teen.

I recommend hiking. There are easy hikes all over the place, ones that anyone can do. Hiking is perfect because you can go at your own pace, push yourself as much as you want. It’s great cardio, as well as great for your legs and back(if you’re carrying a light backpack). This type of exercise isn’t particularly rigorous, however you will still release the endorphins that runners get when they get a “runners high”. Not to mention, just being out in nature releases endorphins in itself, while also relaxing you along the way.

It’s easy to get started as well. I recommend finding someone that might be interested, even if they’ve never hiked before, and doing some research about trails near you.

It’s worth it just to be out in nature. I don’t know what it is, but just being out there is so blissful; hearing the birds and bugs and wind through the trees. It’s so unnatural to be cooped up inside all day, that being out in the wilderness, even if it’s just a city park, is so liberating.

If you want any advice or have any questions, pm me. I’m no expert, but I do a fair bit of hiking and have climbed several mountains, including the 3 tallest in my region.

Mountains literally surround where I live, and they are GORGEOUS, albeit littered with trash. I'll try to get my mom to start with me when it gets warm!

Do it! It'll be great exercise, as well as a good opportunity to spend time with her. When you do go, please bring a trash bag and clean up as you go. It may not be your mess, but it's your planet. A little bit can go a long way.

I have irreversible damage to my back from that kind of lifestyle. I'm 30. I will never be able to work out doing anything other than cardio or very low resistance.

Even if it's going for a 30 minute walk every couple of days that is a good start. Still pushups, situps, planks, squats, or something that will help build muscle. For a while I started doing pushups between RB6 Siege rounds. Started with 10 and eventually I was doing 50. Just do what you can to stay active, work your heart and lungs.

Go do 5 pushups a day until the end of the week, then 10, then 15 then you'll.be addicted to the soreness and you'll look for something that really pushes you

my man go!

Sit ups and push ups that’s all my grandpa did

You can browse reddit (and study but why would you do that?) on a treadmill :)

The first case of hemorrhoids you get will really drive this point home.

Get a dog (obviously works better if you're a dog person). I'm not one of those people that just 'go for a walk' but I take my two out twice a day because they love it, they need it, watching them makes me happy - and I get some incidental exercise and fresh air as a bonus.

Fellow nerd teen: join cross country TOMORROW you'll never regret it. Give it a month because the first month of running sucks but then you'll love it.

~~Current track captain, former lazy bum

Do yoga and core exercises at least. Takes no equipment and your body will love you forever.

Take up skateboarding. It’s fun and one heck of a workout.

25 now. I only did moderate exercise once or twice a week from social sports or at school in my teens. I really regret not doing more. If you are looking for motivation - download an hour long podcast and go for a walk! A podcast that supplements your study may be even better, and you can kill two birds with one stone essentially.

It can be as simple as walking 20 minutes to the corner store, instead of driving there. Next time you get an urge to go to your local 7-11, just walk there instead. Even if it’s only a 20 minute walk, (as opposed to a 5 minute drive,) you’ll still be doing something better than just sitting around.

I know how you feel

I don't know how your school is, but I joined cross country this year and I absolutely love it. It's tough, but it does get you in shape and everyone is very laid back. The coaches are supportive, the team is supportive, and even the other teams in races always push you to do your best. And you don't even have to be good at it to enjoy it (which is good for me). I never even considered myself athletic before I joined, (I was very much like you, only studying and sitting on my phone) but if your school has it I would check it out, see what the coaches and the team is like, or even go to a few practices when it starts back up in the fall to see if it's something you may like. Just don't be put off if you go and you can't run very long (I could barely go 10 minutes), after the first few weeks it gets much easier.

If you literally spend an hour a day, 3 days a week in the gym weightlifting now, in 5 years you could have the body of your dreams. Download the StrongLifts app, the myfitnesspal app, track your calories and tell it you want to gain .5 lbs a week.

I'm a 23 year old videogame nerd who works in I.T. If I can do it and get big, so can you.

I enjoy going for a jog while listening to audiobooks. There are a number of ways to get excercice

If you go to a big college you won't have a choice but to walk everywhere. That's what happened to me. It kinda sucks but I guess it's good for me.

Yeah sitting down all day is one of the worst things you can do to your body.

Dude, being a teenager is like a cheat code for the gym. You'll never be able to get bigger faster than right now. So if you're interested in that, you should check it out.

24, reddit, sleep, study - nothing changed

I swear I'm not getting paid for this or anything, but I really recommend a step tracker like Fitbit for example. I got one about two weeks ago. I've never been a very active person because I was a "naturally" thin girl growing up so I never learned about the importance of good exercise and diet, but in the past few years I've really put on weight yet was too unmotivated/ scared to go to a gym. then I became friends with a group of girls in my class who are really active and they have weekly "competitions" on who can walk the most steps in a week (the Fitbit app automatically counts everyone's steps) and it honestly motivated me so much more than anything else I've tried. So far I've completely stopped taking the bus and I walk to school everyday instead :-)

Once you get used to it, you'll love it.

If you told me ten years ago that I'd voluntarily lift weights, go to Zumba classes, and participate in 5ks, I never would have believed you. But I got tired of being fat and had to get moving. Now exercise is an important part of my life. I was even part of an instructional yoga video last year.

That being said, running is the devil and I will probably never grow to enjoy it.

So sleep standing up, you retard.

Dude, go see if you can start training jiujitsu somewhere. Cardio, full body workout, badassery, and social activities all in one!

God this hits close. Had an amazing metabolism til my late 20s. Add a promotion and lifestyle change, I'm now in my mid 30s its a lot harder to keep the flab off the midsection.

On the bright side, that's what motivated me to get going. I was like you. Till I was 28 or so, just walking was enough to keep me thin, but that wasn't working any more. The flab was coming on. I hit the gym and tried other aerobic routines over the years (biking to work, swimming, etc.) and that did the job for the next 30 years.

I'm not sure metabolism is the whole answer. If that were true, 20 year olds would have a higher core body temperature or would fail to absorb and then excrete extra nutrients.

The real answer is changing lifestyles.

Yeah people don’t realize how much more sedentary they’re jobs get after graduation. Young college people are more active. Suddenly when you’re not playing pickup basketball with ur friends you start gaining weight.

That's not how metabolism works.

I agree

However, the whole "metabolism changing" mantra people harp on when they gain weight is a myth, plain and simple.

Your metabolism changes very little in relation to other parts of your lifestyle that actually change.

E.g: having less time to work out because of a girlfriend, or a job that requires more hours at work, or having kids, or owning and maintaining a house

I can't remember mine changing. I was doing the same things, had the same routine, ate the same things.

I do know that when I was in my 20s, after eating, I would get quite hot. I would literally turn pink; my ears, red :-).

Remember, metabolism changing is a myth

People gain weight because of things like getting an SO, having kids, getting a job that requires more hours at work, buying and maintaining a house etc

All of these things take away from the free time you'd have otherwise to go to the gym or be more active. When you're younger you have more energy which means you have more motivation to burn calories (often indirectly)

That's not to say metabolism doesn't change, it does but it's a very very small piece (think <5%) in an otherwise complicated puzzle

I’ve always been able to lose weight at about the same pace by counting calories. The hard part is being disciplined enough to stick to a calorie goal long term.

It's exactly this. I have found that for me, more protein in my diet helps me feel full longer than other macros. Something like a protein shake here or there is low calorie and keeps off the hunger pangs for quite awhile.

There's too much noise out there to actually move me away from personal experience. "Metabolism myth" may (or may not) be the latest fad.

The plural of anecdotes is not evidence. I'll look up some studies for you

It works for me. Thanks, anyway.

Science doesn't come in fads, it's based on evidence and peer review

This article compared the last 50 years of American diet and exercise and found that lifestyle was the largest influencer of weight gain, and age only affecting metabolism less than 5% per decade after the age of 40

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0019657

You mean, like the studies that proved that fat caused heart disease and diabetes, not sugar?

That was more due to the sugar industry covering up that sugar was the cause and not fat. That was also 1960s, but I understand where your confusion comes from as those companies were very good about obstructing their findings, thus misleading the general public. Like I said public perception might follow fads but well peer reviewed science does not

http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.2003460

Was 28 and stuff. Didn’t work out. Ever. But I sure did party and drink a whole lot of booze. That was cool, I guess.

Then one day, I woke up and I was a 41-year-old with man tits. That’s not very cool.

The choice is yours, kids.

As a 27 year old who is already afraid that his skin rolls could be fat rolls despite going to the gym more often than any other point in life, please stop. You are scaring me. :(

The key to keeping it all off is diet. Exercise will take you part way there but diet will take you a lot further on weight loss.

Metabolism doesn't mean much to be honest. Simply eat less or be more active to burn more calories (fat). Check out the wiki on r/fitness

r/fatlogic is pretty good for double-checking yourself when you start thinking "One snack couldn't hurt".

Its not too late man, when someone asks me what the secret is to exercising i always say " You have make it a part of your schedule, make it a routine and it becomes easier".

I would also say find something that works for you. I like walking, I like running, I like calisthenics, that's the stuff I do. Looking to see how I feel about swimming this summer. If you forced me to stop doing the activities I like I forced me to go to the gym instead, I'd probably stop working out. Find something that you ca get into, even if it's just a little bit. Maybe you like going to the gym, but maybe you'd rather do some rock climbing, boxing, basketball. There are a ton of options out there.

Yup find some activity you like and just make it a part of your life.

Had an amazing metabolism til my late 20s

Your metabolism did not change much, you just got a lot less active.

The good thing is your metabolism only changes by about 200 calories as you age. That's like eating one less thing a day

I know this isn't the thread to ask this, but maybe I can still get an answer or get pointed in the right direction:

What's metabolism? Slow vs fast? Also, are you implying that your belly flab was caused by slow metabolism? Or is slow metabolism the result of living a physically inactive lifestyle? Thanks in advance

99.99% of the time, “slow metabolism” really means “I eat more food than I should compared to my activity.”

Yes. There is a very conclusive study out there of people of varying ages doing the exact same exercise only varying in metabolism an almost insignificant amount.

It's crazy how people throw this "metabolism" excuse around as they age. "Oh I'm getting older and my metabolism is slowing down..."

No.....

I'm 31, almost 32, and I'm in better shape than I was ever was in my 20s.

In my 20s I just ate whenever I felt hungry. Ate maybe one or two big meals and that was good for the rest of the day. I was skinny as fuck and blamed it on my metabolism, but truthfully I never ate enough.

Now I work in an office and have a nice consistent schedule, so I just eat like 6-7 small to medium sized meals throughout the day and the weight came quickly. Put on some nice size, feel way better and look better than I ever did in my 20s.

I totally know the truth of that. I used to think I had a slow metabolism and then I started working out three times a week. I didn't change my diet, I was still eating like shit, but I slimmed down considerably. Despite remaining about the same weight I was before I started to hit the gym. My stomach is pretty flat considering my weight. What I learned though was that my metabolism was always pretty good, I just overeat all the time. Becoming more physically active certainly helped a lot, but even as much as I do in a week I'm proof that you can out eat even the most strenuous workout routine. I joke with my workout partner that as I've grown stronger, my body cares less about the fact I weigh a lot, which has enabled me to remain gluttonous. My heart is probably the healthiest it's ever been, at age 41.

Metabolism varies person to person and fast and slow metabolisms generally vary on the magnitude of 100-200 calories. Fat is caused by consuming more calories than you burn daily. To lose weight (fat) simply eat less. Check out the wiki on r/fitness

To lose weight (fat) simply eat less.

I've found it amazing how many people get offended by this.

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There's a difference between simple and easy. Simple means that there's not a lot of layers to it, which there are not. Calories in vs calories out.

Easy means that it doesn't take a lot of effort. Losing weight is simple. It works the same for every human being. For most people though it is not easy. It takes a lot of effort to restrain yourself

I hear ya. I run two have marathons a year to encourage myself to stay fit in some capacity

two half marathons

I think that's just called a marathon

Well, combined yes, but I run a half marathon in Spring, and then fall

Is that much running bad for your knees?

It can be, but the health benefits offset that by a large margin, and you can take steps to mitigate injury.

For some reason it always makes my knees feel like they're about to burn or itch, as though I can't stretch the tissue, and the only way to mitigate it is by running from the tops of my thighs

Running in general isn't good for your knees. Best stick to biking or an elliptical.

I usually choose to dance because biking fucks my wrists

Not if you wear proper foot wear and train probably.

I find no footwear to be the healthiest way, in fact, shoes kind of deform your feet

If anything, I try exclusively to run on soil/grass

That feeling when you don't use foot wear and your foot muscles get extremely sore for that first time

That feeling of having your toes properly spread... there are probably a ton of structural issues related to that... like wrist issues and computers

It could just be my genetics, but I'm 41 and I'm still able to keep up a pretty good metabolism. I work out 3 times a week and am building a lot of muscle. My heart is in excellent shape, and I burn a lot of calories while frankly eating like shit.

No doubt the progress I've made since I began this fitness program a year and a half ago could have been completed in a shorter time period if I were half this age, but I've found that getting and staying in shape even after your 30s is eminently do-able. I'm judging that based on the people I see at the gym too, not just me.

To OP's point, with all that said, getting in shape in your 20s and staying in shape is definitely the smart thing to do. I'm speaking more to the people here my age-ish to let them know it is never too late to become fit.

Though you're right, it is somewhat harder than during your youth. Being fit feels so great I wish I could convince more people to become more active.

Nothing to do with metabolism per se.

Your body is sedate therefore the DNA in you says better store it as fat just in case.

Start working out and viola your metabolism speeds up.

Tough part is getting started at an exercise routine that works. Honestly I recommend either sports or a martial art. Something that is fun and will keep you doing it.

The hardest part about it all is that as you grow older your life becomes more and more sedentary.. especially of you are in an office space. Going out for lunch becomes a normal thing and ordering in for dinner follows too since you get home too exhausted to cook.

Not really, its mostly just excuses being taken more and more seriously as time goes by; until they become percieved as truths. I spread out my exercise into various 5-15 min intervals throughout the day while being on a tight office and study schedule; calisthenics and/or home/office gym. Working out like that takes out the whole “I need to stop what im doing and take an hour to workout”, and just blends a workout you barely notice into your days. Careful not to overtrain.

I have 4 co-workers still at my job from the same hiring wave that I'm friends with, all recruited straight out of college. The first year and a half we all gained 10-20 pounds, after discussing it we realized that despite still working out, we got into the habit of eating out 4-5 times as much as we did in college because we could afford to eat whatever we wanted these days. 3 years later were all getting into the best shape of our lives. We meal prep, but go out and splurge every Friday lunch.

Not only is it a little harder but the motivation for me is harder too. I think I'm already doing x, y and z that I don't want to do today, I don't want to go to the gym too.

The problem is when I take time off (vacation, really busy at work) I will look worse and get weaker which is a bad feeling.

Im trying to get better at working out on vacation and when things are stressful. Even a quick workout is better than nothing and can be kind of nice.

The slow growth of moobs is the most pernicious. My belly's always been sorta flat, but the pecs became moobs over the last few years.

And work the upper back! The traps, delts, rhomboids, and lats are way more important than anyone ever tells us, especially for posture! I always round my shoulders when I sit at the computer and lately my upper back has just been getting sore. Doing face pulls and rows completely eliminates it for a few days, but it comes back, so I always have to do them every work out.

Good thing depression keeps me from eating more than a meal a day!

Its ok to have flab, not everyone is going to be ripped after a couple months in the gym. Theyre not gonna be ripped probably even after a year or two. Its better to just steadily improve. Ive increased my bench almost 100 lbs just this year (noob gains + concentrated power of will) and now i lift more than i did when i was on basketball in hs.

Also genetics plays a large part, i feel like its easier for some dudes to just work out for a month or two and get rid of that beer gut while for others its easier to get really big but still have a little chub here and there.

Yeah so you basically just gave up and got fat. Essentially.

Not only that, but working out as a 30-year-old vs working out in my 20's has a significant difference, especially when I have been lax about it for years now. Doing a push-up or handstand now or whatever is way shittier for me. I didn't realize how spritely I was in my 20's until I turned 30.

Metabolism doesn’t change that much as you age...not to the extent that people think.

If you’re gaining weight, it’s because you’re consuming more calories than you previously did. Or perhaps you used to exercise more.

Flab flab flab..flab flab flub flob ..flab flab flab

Change of metabolism as you age can generally only be caused by two things: change in activity level and muscle mass. You can change those things. Age isn't really a factor here unless you're literally elderly, and even then there are still possible solutions!

If you really think you have a metabolic change out of your control, then you are in the less than 1% and should see a doctor about any possible undiagnosed diseases such as hypothyroidism or metabolic syndrome.

It’s not metabolism, there are plenty of thin people over 20 and in there 50’s 60 and so on. It’s all about calories. If you were a lot more active in your 20’s, and now are not as active but still eat the same amount then that’s the problem. I suggest a tdee calculator and my fitness pal :) I started gaining weight right after my teens and thought “damn metabolism!” But the truth is I did rigorous triathlons and triathlon training every day in my teens and ate like a savage. Then I stopped training, but still ate like I was and gained almost 20 😭 losing it now though pretty easily without working out at all and just eating at a calorie deficit

You could just correct your eating habits. I don't exercise and I'm thin because I cut out carbs and sugars.

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Metabolic rates, IIRC, only account for a few hundred extra calories per day within the same gender. You can absolutely take your body and your health into your own hands and be/ stay/ get fit

As someone who just got done throwing up after having run 3/4 of a mile I can't agree more. I used to be able to run a marathon then life got in the way and now I'm 35 very overweight and completely out of shape but it's never too late to get back into it.

Ah fuck.

Technically you can’t stop if you never started so we are safe

My thoughts exactly.

Or be me and get so sick you can't excersise despite having loved it above all.

Sorry I know it's not about me but every time I see this advice it hurts me

I’m sorry to hear that :( and it’s partially why I said if you can. I know not everyone has the same opportunities.

I do hope you get better and are eventually able to do the things you want!

I can't agree with this statement any more. I lived a pretty sedentary lifestyle until last year I got a job as a bike messenger. Now 24, I haven't felt this good in years, and not just my body. Some regular exercise did wonders for my mental health. Like u/peskysens said, never stop! I know I won't.

Exercise is a mistake. Doing good then. Thanks.

Can't stop if you never start. Seriously, though, I wish I had started a sport in my teens and kept going. I love sports, it's just so expensive to upkeep unless you go running around your block.

I agree. It can be rough. But even just owning a bike and going on bike rides. Hiking. Anything that gets you out and moving.

Yep - and I'd say that this is an advice for people in early/mid 20s even more. Just hit the late 20s, the curb hits hard, and sooner than you think, if you don't have an active lifestyle.

I just turned 30 and the last 3-4 years I let myself go. Working on fixing it and just wishing I had put in even minimal effort. I didn't have to keep myself in peak condition, but man just keeping myself from being out of shape would have been way easier than 60-80 I need to lose now.

I had open heart surgery last year to replace a valve. I hadn't really been active in years before then. Now I run two to three times a week (I commute up to three hours a day so I take what I can lol). I feel so. Much. Better. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with actually being active, but having a new valve made a huge difference.

I feel like my motivation comes mostly from wanting to prove that I am as able bodied as anyone else. That I took a new valve and, literally, ran with it. To prove that even with PCOS and heart problems I can fucking do it. To prove to myself, having thought for years that I would never again be fit, wrong.

Ive lost 13 pounds since the end of January and I fee great.

What if I'm skinny?

Skinny doesn't mean healthy.

Go put on muscle and get all the pussy and/or cock your little heart desires.

Did you just look up my profile?

Anyways, I think the "look" doesn't matter too much. I look like an average thin guy and think it's only my mentality holding me back.

Alcohol is nice tho...

Nope, I write that whenever I recommend someone work out.

Also being able to lift heavy shit is BADASS!! Also being fit in general is awesome.

yes get hyooooge

I'm in my mid-30's and I'm just now starting to exercise. It's so hard to make it a routine. Last year I was getting a pretty decent routine going and honestly I felt better than I had in a long, long time. Then some stuff went down and I fell out of that routine. Trying to get back into it now. Want to do it for the obvious health benefits, to help lose weight, and to set a good example for my son.

This is a big one. As someone who is 30 and had back surgery at 28. Those two years that I took off really put things in prospective. Gaining 45lbs and trying to get back into shape it's not very easy and often times frustrating. Knowing what I could once do and fighting tooth and nail to get back to into some semblance of shape is not easy.

I can say places like Orange Theory Fitness REALLY help to shed pounds and get endurance back. I was able to chop off 25lbs in 6 months and get back to wear I feel comfortable with myself.

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Something you'll realize over time is that nobody in the gym gives a shit what you're doing. They're all there for themselves. I WORK at a gym, I see new people day in, day out. Can I tell that someone is new? Sometimes, yeah, but who cares? I certainly don't. I've been there for years, and I've never seen someone actively call someone out on being new or insulting them because of it or anything like that.

Everybody started from the bottom. The people you see in the gym are all varying degrees of experience ranging from anorexic or obese, to completely sedentary or absolutely monolithic. Everybody you see seems to know what they're doing because perhaps they do. The thing about the gym is that the lifts aren't horribly complicated, and you can seem pretty compotent after a month or two of doing the same program.

Another thing is that if you need help with something, ask someone that looks like they know what they're doing after they finish a set or look like they're resting. People in the gym often like being asked for help because it verifies to them that they look like they know what they're doing.

It takes time, but you will learn how to be confident in the gym so long as you're consistent. Consistency is the most important thing, not what you lift, or how long you can run, consistency. People in the gym respect progress and discipline above all else. Just get out there a few times a week, do your best, and realize that nobody thought anything of you past the moment they saw you and went along their day.

I know this feeling fully. I have started and stopped so many times. Sometimes it’s anxiety or mental. You just don’t feel like what you are doing is going to make a difference. Or worry what others think.

If you or anyone can even start by just walking. It’s easy for most. You would be surprised how much it can do for you. Pop on a podcast or audio book and just walk. It’s free. And it will help.

Once you get that down. There is hiking. Biking. All kinds of things!

It takes a while to get into the groove and make it "normal". There's also the discipline factor that you have to have. Working out is just like brushing your teeth or going to work sometimes. You do it because you have to, even if you don't really want to.

Also, there are thousands of ways to exercise. Finding something you enjoy can make all the difference. You don't have to join a gym and lift weights or run on the treadmill to improve your health. Sports, hiking, rock climbing, kayaking, cycling, are just a couple examples of alternate ways to improve yourself.

Took 2 weeks off lifting (which I like to do once or twice a year) and my god I always forget how fast the excuses roll in:

"ah it might rain today, I'll get after it tomorrow, I didn't eat that bad this week, just one more episode of Bojack, I still have time until the summer...."

The sad thing is I know this but I was hard on my body running and exercising in my early 20s and now regular exercise is difficult. So frustrating

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Try and learn as much as possible about nutrition and exercise (cardio and weightlifting). I had that same fear but now that I’m fairly experienced in exercise and nutrition I’m confident that I won’t slip away from it.

Ummm, so you're answer to what's the biggest mistake a person in their 20's can make is exercise?

Dude it makes you sweat, man.

Never got into it... so I'll never need to get back.

Brains.

THIS

Just turned 30 have a "dad bod" please just keep exercising work kids house bills beer beer beer they all add up... Beer wish I tried harder (don't get me wrong /r/keto helped me loose almost 5 stone but I've regained almost 3 stone of that and it's a shit load harder to loose 5 years later)

YES!! I had a great metabolism and was super active in college. Sitting at a desk all day / traveling for work / eating like I was 22 got me started gaining an embarrassing amount of weight. It’s been almost a year, and I’m down 40 lbs with some to go, but holy PAIN IN THE ASS to get there.

100% yea!!! It’s a killer.

I completely agree but what reasoning/logic can I use to convince those that have a hard time agreeing?

Tens of thousands of peer-reviewed studies full of millions of pages of empirical evidence that prove conclusively that a sedentary lifestyle reduces quality of life as well as life expectancy.

Even if you're not obese you aren't magically an exception. Exercise is good and does good.

Wait... Based on the title, is exercise a mistake? 🤔

I wish I had listened to folks saying that all the food and beer would start to collect on me. Starting to ~~run~~ waddle at an accelerated pace in your late 30's isn't fun.

Hitting 32 on Thursday and just last year took my health seriously. Started running which now has morphed into running 3 days a week and doing kettlebell excercises 3 days a week as well. Wish i would’ve started sooner.

Jokes on you, the gym is the only thing I know.

This is what i regret, not being in shape in my 20's is affecting me in my 30's now. I also was lazy in my 20's so i didn't go do much stuff when i could have, now i can't really go do this stuff anymore.

This is me right now. I'm so lazy when it comes to exercising

I wish I had known this in my 20s. I never exercised. Wasn’t obese. But then I started exercising and people started taking me seriously. People are all shallow.

Yes! When I was in high school, I was taking dance classes 4 nights a week, I was on the volleyball team and dance team and was constantly active. I also had PE elective aerobics every day in school. I never had to “try” to exercise because it was always built into my activities. When I went to college, I didn’t work out because I would have had to plan to go to the gym on my own time without a reason other than working out. I got out of the habit and now at 28, my metabolism has slowed and I’ve started gaining weight and I’m not the tiny thing I used to be. So I’ve found that the group class schedules at the gym are my new “extracurricular activities” and I force myself to go as if I was going to dance class every night.

To add on this, if it hasn't already, eat healthy, which is just as important, if not more than staying active.

i think this would be the best advice i could give myself at 21. i was fit, looked great, was healthy. fast forward to now and i'm trying to undo 10 years of shit food, sedentary lifestyle and bone-idleness.

for the love of god, keep yourself fit when you're young. it's so much harder to do it when you're older.

Just started a new job after being stuck in college for too long. Dropped exercising out of my life due to stress and lack of time. Now that I’ll only have a job to worry about I feel like it’s the perfect time to exercise again. I’m aiming for one hour after work everyday!

I was exercising for a little while during college, but the constant meetings that I have to go to every day combined with craploads of work to do and pretty f-ing bad anxiety makes staying fit really hard! I'm almost done my sophomore year of college and I've gained about 40 or more pounds! Hopefully I'll be able to work out during the summer.

I always think to myself about the sacrifices in time and energy I make to exercise as often as I do. If it really came down to it, getting enough exercise is something that would heavily influence my decisions on where I live, what kind of job/hours I can work, how early I get up every day, etc. Just think about your time and energy being divided up into a pie chart; you can’t realistically expect to make exercising regularly work if you’re already at 100% between work/school/family/whatever.

If you’re considering adopting that lifestyle, realize that is exactly what it is, a lifestyle.

Don't be afraid or self-conscious in the gym either.

I first started going when I was in really bad shape and I was real concerned with how people would look at me. Turns out there's very low odds that anybody even notices you, and if they do all that anyone thinks is "good for them"

And don't be afraid to ask gym employees for help either. Most of them just stand around the whole time doing nothing anyway. You aren't interrupting anything.

As someone with a chronic knee condition, this is really hard to do. All my hobbies are sit down things, and sometimes I can't get out of bed because of how bad my knees are hurting. I know swimming is really easy on the joints, but that's not the problem weirdly enough. My kneecaps don't move correctly, and nothing can be done about it. So I'm basically just fucked cuz I got it when I was 18, and I'm 24 now.

So what you're saying saying is, never stop never stopping?

well our case is different. we focus on one at a time. study for 2 semesters. workout for half summer, then get job for half summer. Then continue on the next semester

Thats a big one, I was 6months or so into running and dropped a bunch of weight. Car accident screwed up my back and i put those 30lbs back on right quick.

Can't stop of I never start!

this comment makes me so tired.

I got an early start, as I spent my entire childhood doing sports and I've been lifting since I was in my late teens, and even though my health took a turn for the worse and I don't have a lot of energy, I try to squeeze in whatever I can, even if it's just an hour a week split into two different workouts to keep some muscle on and not shrink into a skeleton.

I love exercising, but between getting sick, getting injured, and having bad knees, it sure doesn’t seem exercise loves me!!

I am pretty excited though, I’ve finally healed up enough to do some yoga tonight!

Same goes for using your brain. It’s a muscle and if you don’t challenge yourself mentally in different ways everything slowly becomes harder and you will start disliking everything.

In my opinion, it is recess that should never stop. Exercise is simply recess with all the fun sucked out of it. But that would require us as a society to adopt new priorities.

It makes a huge difference!

i find it gets easier to get back into it, relatively. back when i was just starting to take it semi-seriously and i was all weak and stuff, keeping it going and getting back on it during the inevitable breaks, it was really, really hard re-starting. but now, if i just forget for a month, it's fine like it just takes a couple days and i feel as strong as before.

but yeah, don't stop is what people new to it have to be hearing, stopping out of laziness was what kept me relatively unfit for so long.

I was working out twice a week. Was tough to get in shape, but once I did it was amazing.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to work out for about five months due to pain. Had a hip surgery to fix some of it, but now it looks like I might need a knee surgery, too. My entire leg hurts if I exert myself in any way.

Anyways, my point is that I really miss working out.

Ok but gyms suck

Am 26 and already feeling changes, shit is going really south

This is easier said than done for a lot of people.

If you were one of those kids that never liked P.E. and has no interest in physical sports, then there is no motivation to start being active even though we can get away with it when we were younger.

Exercising is not enjoyable and can be very boring to some people and there isn't an obvious way to get past this.

This is what I would recommend as well. I stopped moving, gained a bunch of weight, started moving again, lost the weight, and stopped moving again. Now I'm trying to get moving again to get back in some sort of shape other than round.

Stay moving people. It'll save your life.

You’re right, exercising is a mistake

Stopped drinking and smoking at 25 becasue I started putting on tons of weight and my wife was pregnant. I hit the weights/dieted, still at it 6 years later. I'm pretty sure if I hadn't started I would be 300lbs now, metabolism really slows down at some point . I also look younger then most of my friends and am much stronger.

Well overdoing exercising is a mistake

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Fitness is sustainable though. You don’t need to be a body builder to have a better life.

Physiques are sustainable though ...

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Justify myself for what lol?

Not sure why your panties up in a bunch. Im just talking about moderation haha

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Cmon now. You sound insecure and bitter

All i said was exercise is good, but don't let your entire life and accomplishments revolve around it

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And you keep sounding more cringey and pathetic. Haha

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And you keep crying. Holy shit LOL

What a fucking tangent and a half. General fitness and bodybuilding are worlds apart.

And what the fuck is your last point? Physiques are maintainable if you're not a lazy cunt.

Cognitive dissonance.

Making excuses for themselves to not work out and trying to get he approval of others for their backwards logic.

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Boy you are bringing a cork to a busted open Hoover Dam.

Stealing this

One of the doctors from the hospital I work in constantly complains that her younger brother earns more than her. Apparently, he used to play rugby and then got into the bodybuilding thing and then he got a job selling supplements as a rep. Now he's in Dubai, in a yacht, selling supplements to people there.

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No I'm talking about moderation

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Couple times a week and a decent diet. A lot of people get it into their heads that they need X macros and Y amount of supplements

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Not in itself. But the problem is that many people who very into fitness are also 1 dimensional in their goals and accomplishments. It's quite rare to see people who are both super fit and have the career they wanted in their late 20s. And those who do tend to focus on their career early first, then made up the fitness later. Diversity in goals is better.

What moderation though?

I believe people who exercise and bodybuild should also bring the same determination into building a career. Both take time and determination and in the end they both pay off. I can tell now that I'm working out again I feel more motivated to do everything in life which feels amazing.

This is dead on. My job keeps me very active, so I didn’t think actively exercising was all that important. Because my job was so tiring, I came home and napped for a bit and didn’t think anything if it. Once I starting working out again, 3-4 times a week of 30-45 min cardio with an hour of weights, I found myself not needing/wanting to nap and the pounds melted off. The extra hour of working out (2-3 times 1.5-2 hours, 3-6 hours working out during the week plus weekend session) was way more productive than the five hours a week I was napping. It gave me more confidence and energy to reach for my other goals. And people noticed.

Physiques are 100% sustainable...

And 2 hours in the gym 4-5 days a week (which is admittedly the high end) is not mutually exclusive with building a "real career" if you have your priorities set properly

Nothing in the world quite compares to the benefits of a strong body either. Seems to be coming more from a personal dislike of "meathead bodybuilders" than anything else

Most people only have 2-3 hours of free time every day, so basically in the gym for 2 hours (+ travel) means you do nothing but work or workout everyday. If you love it great! But most people like to do other things after work.

That's admittedly the very high end like I said, what you'll see the most insane athletes doing. In smaller sports like strongman or powerlifting, most of the competitors have day jobs and they manage. Cut that volume in half and it's very reasonable for almost everybody.

It's just bothersome to always see the bullshit of the post that I responded to, the "exercise is a waste of time, physiques are not obtainable for the average person, meathead bodybuilders, etc etc" when the people making the posts are likely using the extra hours in their day to watch TV or bitch on reddit about being out of shape

I exercise when I can but honestly the toughest part for me is getting on a schedule because I'm in a few bands and now that the weather is nice I'll be spending time gardening. I exercise when I can because I know it's important but honestly music, gardening and other hobbies trump exercising. If only I could get paid to look good...

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"admittedly the high end"

They're not sustainable at 80.

Yeah neither is really anything else

Fuck it, we're all gonna die, why bother?

Wise words indeed.

You dont have to be a body builder type. Just make sure you are active, eating right and not obese. Keep your vitals in control. Its not that tough and your older self will thank you for it.

Its funny how youve let the lifestyles of a few bodybuilders be the reason youre okay with being unfit. What an unattractive character you must have

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Nobody says it is. I'm talking about mentality of some people who don't focus on other aspects of their life. Similarly, their are people who play video games and accomplish very little in their life. And those who do accomplish a lot and still play video. So im talking about moderation

People who are truly lean and healthy are some of the most honest, brightest people out there. It takes dedication, hard work and discipline to achieve a good body. Most of the people I know at the gym are also studying as well. Just because you work out and have a good body doesn’t mean your not working on your career.

yeah i work out too and have a decent career. I'm talking about the hardcore gym bros who are 1 dimensional and focus their goals purely around exercise .

Of course exempt would be physical therapists

Physiques are sustainable. People just have to actually care and a lot of people stop caring. But to say it is unsustainable is absolutely 100% not true.

Racking up more school debt than they need to because they feel they need to stick it out at the expensive private college for whatever reason (friends, relationship, school reputation, etc...).

On the flip side racking up debt to get my engineering degree was one of the best decisions of my life. Luckily I really was interested in a career that pays well. But it was the best investment of my life financially. I am paying off my loans and will be for a bit. But it was definitely the best investment of my life.

It only works out if you follow up with a career. It can go either way. If you’re going to take out the loans make sure you can pay it off later.

It only works out if you follow up with a career.

Ahh modern day gambling.... I too choose to live dangerously.

It’s kind of true. All though not gambling because it depends on your abilities and your decision making on what degree you do for. It’s not gambling if you plan ahead.

Even if you're counting cards you're still gambling.

In my experience there is still a bit of luck involved; knowing the right people at the right place and time was pretty make it or break it.

Counting cards is different. I’m not saying there is no risk. But risk of financial loss isn’t always gambling. It’s in your hands. Yes timing matters too. The only side that makes it a gamble is the economy could crash again and destroy the job market.

But no risks no rewards. Noth by ventured nothing gained. There are no sure things in life. You have to take some risks if you want to get anywhere

Yup. I have two daughters and watched all their friends doing college loans the wrong way.

They were maxing out their limits to fund a new car, trips to Thailand, spring break fun, all the electronics, and so on. Yeah, some went to books, supplies, tuition. But the bulk went to renting that REALLY nice duplex, brand new washer dryer so they didn't have to do laundry at the laundromat, ski weekends, expensive presents for their love du jour and so on. Why buy a computer for $600 when you can go whole hog and get the $3500 set up so you can play video games (and maybe make a living at it, right? A million or more a year, right?) all night and all weekend instead of studying.

Then graduation and their first shitty job that doesn't pay nearly as well as their student loans. Not only can they not afford to live nearly as nicely, in their starter jobs (many of these same ones have zero work experience at graduation, because...student loans and parties man) and now they have to PAY BACK THE MONEY. Somehow this simple fact absolutely escapes them.

So, Brittany, you have $100,000 in student debt for your Fine Arts degree, 24 years old with absolutely no work experience, and you are a barista because it's the only job you can find that doesn't pay minimum wage, and crying about having to give up your car for a shitty one and moving to the low rent hood to live within reality.

University educated, yet not a lick of sense.

Exactly two did it the right way. One, my daughter joined the Army, got her education for free. She's 25, a nurse, $51,000 year to work 30 hours a week, buying her first house via VA loans, zero student debt. I can't take any credit at all for this plan, she came up with it on her own her senior year. The other one that did it right, her friend, 26 years old, did part time jobs, lived like the starving student he was, got grants and scholarships, minimal loan debt. Picked a major he wanted, worked his ass off for it, and hello $65,000 starter job as a mechanical-electrical engineer at Hewlett Packard. With under $8,000 in student debt that he paid off the first year.

Guess which of the crew got made fun of all through college for not partying all weekend, not going to Cabo for spring break, not buying himself a $280 winter coat and so on? Guess who they made fun of for joining the "fucking Army, you idiot, who does that"? Guess which ones are now funding their own trips, NOW buying new cars, the toys they want, buying their first home and are not in deep debt?

My other daughter chose a vocational school and is a beautician at 22.

Guess which group is shrieking the loudest about overwhelming student debt and how the government needs to fix it? How about you need to grow up a little sooner than 25. All college seems to be these days is extended adolescense.

I'm honestly kind of terrified by this. I'm going into Computer Science next year, not at my first choice school, so that I can take advantage of a nice $31,000 scholarship. Unfortunately for me, the total cost minus the $5,500 in federal loans and my scholarship is still ~$21,000. I'm definitely getting a part time job, but it's still a lot of money. I don't know how much my parents are able to take out in loans for me because I'm a triplet, so even though they're decently well off school is going to be crazy expensive for them. I guess I'm just nervous about my future in general, and what's going to happen if I can't get a decent job out of college or if my goal of becoming a video game developer after that doesn't work out.

$21k/year or total? $21k total isn’t bad. That’s like $150/month student loan payment. This is coming from a family where we pay $800/month combined. Haha.

$21k/year. It's a private school, so the tuition is higher, but a lot of my other choices didn't offer me very much money so I decided to take it.

Yeah. That’s a lot of money. I’d personally recommend against taking out that much debt. When I graduated with $50k and realized how far my salary didn’t go, I wanted to jump off a bridge. Coughing up $600/month for 20 years is seriously depressing.

It's something that's already decided, unfortunately. For me it's only about $9,000 a year in debt, but I'm more worried about my parents who are taking the brunt of all of our education costs. ~$36,000 total doesn't sound that bad, but I also am 18 so take that as you will.

It’s a lot of money, but at $36k in debt you’ll be right up there with everyone else. ANYTHING in STEM is smart, though. You’ll hopefully earn a decent salary when you graduate and paying $300/month won’t be as painful. Best of luck! And have fun! College is a ball.

Thank you! My college has a pretty great career connection center from what I've heard, so hopefully that will land me some internships and possibly even my first job. I'm planning on running cross country in college, I had a lot of fun doing it in high school even though I had to stop running for a few months recently due to injury. It's a division 3 school so I wasn't eligible for scholarship, but the coach is super nice and I love the sport so I might as well :)

Between you and me, if you’re inclined and you like the nitty gritty of computer science, take the patent bar and become a patent agent. They make great money and more or less are practicing patent attorneys without the extra obligation. Or better yet, go to law school and become a patent attorney! They make $170k out of the gate. I work in patent law. Can you tell?

Not at all! Seriously though, that's something to consider. I feel like I only have a small idea of what I want to do but I know I'm in the right major at the very least.

I think you are a waitress.

21K per year is a shit ton of money to pay. You should get a job to help keep that as low as possible.

That being said, if you do it right you can get summer internships that will help pay. I made $15K each summer, helped me. Even if the internship is in the middle of Wyoming, find one. Tons of my friends only applied to places that were easy and convenient. They regret it because it took them forever to find a job that didn't require an internship AND they had a lot of debt.

A degree in Comp Sci has the potential to take you far. Finding good internships is often more valuable than working part time. Unless your part time job is tech related. In that case it's a win win.

I don’t know your parents financial situation, but for me, I was able to use a combination of federal student loans and parent plus loans. Parent plus loans allows the parent to co-sign on your loan. As a triplet (if all of you are going to university) that might not be an option. I really don’t know.

The other thing I will say, Im studying CS at a university that is by no means top tier, after doing 2 years at community college (really 3 but we won’t get into my failures as a student). I’m just finishing up a degree. Computer Science isn’t a guaranteed golden ticket by any means. However, a significant portion of my cohort have accepted offers or have offers on the table. Much more so than many other majors at my school.

The key to getting a job after graduation for CS is much more straightforward than some fields.

  1. Keep your grades up. Early on, don’t slack off in non CS courses because they are boring. Your CS courses will be more challenging, and having that grade buffer from easy classes can rescue your GPA.

  2. Internships, internships, internships. Engineering and CS fields love to see internship experience, and having multiple (over several summers) will put you head and shoulders above your cohort. If you can’t land an internship, DO SOMETHING with your summer. Anything that shows you are working on yourself and your skills. For me, I did a research trip last summer.

  3. Extracurriculars. Only do these when it won’t hurt your grades or if you can fit it into your schedule between working. If you can attend a cyber security club meeting once a week or ask your professors if there are any opportunities to help with undergraduate research (if you get lucky, these opportunities can pay, and offset some time spent at a job).

  4. Practice writing and maintaining a resume, a github, and a LinkedIn. When it’s time to apply for jobs an internships, you have to communicate why you are the best person that this employer could hire. A strong resume (with sample code and networking skills) could be the difference between 2 candidates.

Points 2-4 are just things you can do to improve your chances. There are some people who don’t do any of these and still land a job. There are some people who do all of these and are still trying to find a job. It’s all about improving your odds. Rest assured though, by dint of being in CS, your odds are already much higher than many of your peers in different fields.

My biggest advice to you is to just take this first year to wet your toes a bit. Sample as widely in the CS field as you can. Make sure this is right for you. CS is a good field, but nothing will carry you through those tough classes if you don’t enjoy it. There is nothing worse (and I’ve personally seen it) than someone getting to upper level courses and realizing that they hate what they are doing, and switching out of CS entirely. Best way to avoid that is through early exposure.

Good luck to you. It’s a world of possibility on the other side of this degree.

I feel like those are two extremes. I went to a private school because i moved to a state that didn't have state schools to get away from my abusive parents. I worked full time (sometimes 2 jobs at once) to pay interest payments and support myself. I never went on spring break or bought anything fancy. I got the loans for my exact tuition. Paid for books out of pocket. I'm still drowning in student loan debt. Now I'm working a full time and a part time job to make my bills.

It shouldn't cost so much for college anywhere. Yes there are cheaper options but I don't think any option should bankrupt a person. We we're told go to college, doesn't matter what degree you get. Just get a degree and you'll be set. Now there's no jobs and any entry level job wants 5 years experience and barely pays above minimum wage.

I agree...between tuition and the ridiculous cost of books, add housing, it can be overwhelming. It's why I'm glad my girls went the route they did. They did see what their friends did and chose different paths.

I haven’t used my student loans on frivolous things like trips or electronics but I’ve still managed to acquire about $30k of debt just by going to a state university and commuting from my parents’ house.

The student debt crisis still exists without stupid people using their loans on things other than school expenses. It’s kinda hard for students to realize the weight that student debt carries when, in my case, parents don’t know jack shit about student loans or about managing money in general. I’m not blaming my debt on my parents but I’m sure it would have helped if they were able to give me some guidance with that.

I had no idea what I was getting into financially when I started college because I had no reliable support or resources to rely on for help. Congrats to your kids for figuring it out how to be an adult so early but that issue is not really black and white.

I wish I had just followed my guts instead of listening to my mom. She wanted me to wait until graduation to start paying my loans... And now it's just a huge ass sum. I also wanted to ROTC for free education but nope. Kinda hard to make these decisions on my own when she was giving me extra money for food. (UCSD dining dollars/plan was ridic expensive for me, esp with a high metabolism and I eventually still lost weight instead of getting the freshman 15 bc gaining in a healthy way was also challenging.)

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Just because it's a good choice, doesn't make it an easy choice. Good for you. You will get a better start.

Was really into your post until the last paragraph. You completely missed the point of student loan reform. The students are too young and financially illiterate to be making those financial decisions and they’re making poor choices. The federal government and banks shouldn’t be lending max amounts to young adults who aren’t responsible or knowledgeable enough to handle the money.

Indeed. I agree completely. Hand immature and irresponsible people, with zero life experience and guidance the ability to get credit cards and large loans and you are guaranteed a disaster. I feel they should be required to take a class (a serious one) in loan management, finances, budgeting BEFORE signing on the dotted line. At least they are informed. What they do with their choices after that is on them.

However, if you want to get into a prestige career like consulting or banking, go to a target school regardless of cost.

I went to a really expensive private school & “stuck it out” bc if I transferred I would’ve been so behind I would’ve had to take out even more loans. So, not always bad to stick it out :)

Idk man, school reputation can actually be huge. For example an Ohio state engineering degree holds a lot more clout than a community College. The more specific the major the more true

Duh, CCs only give out AA or AS, which are worthless except for several fields while a State and Private University gives you a BA/BS or MA/MS. When referring to school reputation, it's talking about how USC is more prestigious compared to Michigan State University

My community college actually even has a few masters degrees now. I realize that's an exception to the norm though

Idk if it is. Mine has them too, they team up with a university to do it I think.

For certain degrees I agree that school can matter. But I do think for those certain degrees, the cost isn't going to matter anyway (law, medical, etc...) because you're going to have a high enough paying job.

And obviously a 4-year university is going to be different than a CC.

School clout definitely matters for Law, not just because coming from Ivy league law looks better than some state school, but also usually there are better connections at these type of schools. And making money with Law is 100% your connections and who you work for. Contrary to popular belief, a lot of jobs in Law don't pay that well anymore.

tbh even the ones that do barely cover it.

source: paid sticker at a top 14. now I'm in biglaw. not rolling in it.

Yes yes yes. I wish I'd started at community college or just was made more aware of how expensive school really is. I'm about to graduate with a bachelor's and applying for jobs realizing for the most part I'll make like $3 more than I am now.

Maybe due to the competitive job market they want the more prestigious school on their application to give them a better chance of employment.

Nothing worse than debts for a degree no one wants to hire you with.

This. I graduated college with zero debt which was only possible because I made sure I hit all the TOPs requirements (state funding for school) and then went to affordable state college and worked. I had friends that went out of state to great north eastern colleges only to get teaching degrees, liberal arts degrees etc that I know they don’t make what I make. I chose nursing school instead of med school because I didn’t want loans knowing I could get my masters in 2 years post grad making practically what an internist makes as a nurse practitioner without the malpractice, being on call etc. Of course the world needs teachers and doctors but it wasn’t the best choice to be debt free.

What I've been told is go to a school that you can afford. A degree is a degree and one isn't better than the other just because it is from an ivy league school.

Well an Ivy league degree is no joke, but the rest of them are pretty much the same.

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Ivies have billions in their financial aid endowments. They often are the most generous with financial aid, leaving you with no debt if your parents make less than certain cutoffs. Cornell was by far the most generous and cost me the least compared to all the state schools in WA so off to Ithaca it was.

And that was the last time you saw sunlight?

lol it was sunny but SO DAMNED COLD most of the time.

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An Ivy League degree definitely has more “pizazz” to it and will attract more employers, but thinking from a student’s standpoint, it may not be as worth it as people make it out to be. For example, if I want to get a bachelors degree in computer science from College A but “fancy shmancy” College B is offering the same degree, I would rather choose college A and get my degree very little to debt free rather than get it from a prestigious school and leave with $20,000 in debt.

I’m not completely ignoring them though. I’m applying for Pepperdine and maybe USC, but if I’m unable to pay the tuition, it’s really not the end of the world for me.

For example, if I want to get a bachelors degree in computer science from College A but “fancy shmancy” College B is offering the same degree, I would rather choose college A and get my degree very little to debt free rather than get it from a prestigious school and leave with $20,000 in debt.

It really depends on the industry you're looking to get into and the difference in prestige between the two schools. From what I know, computer science is a lot more merit based than finance, which is extremely prestige based. In your case, the prestige gap between Pepperdine and USC isn't that large. I imagine you'll be fine with either option if your goal is a job in tech.

Btw, it looks like you're a Ca resident based off where you're applying. You applying to any UC's? Those have some pretty good value compared to the privates you're applying to.

Used to live in california. Moved to Las Vegas about two years ago. I have family in LA though and I am also starting to really miss it, as it is my home state and also I just think that I have way more potential in LA with my career than where I am now.

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People talk about Pepperdine here in Virginia.

If you want MBB consulting or BB banking, going to a prestige school is required

The degree really only matters for the first and maybe second job you get, otherwise it'll be your work experience

My sister insisted on going to a private university for her master's. She regrets it.

My biggest higher education regret is trying to go to a shitty public school for grad school over a way better privet school. I’m now going to privet and the quality of education is ridiculously better.

While racking up more school debt than needed is never a good idea, there is often a benefit in taking out loans to attend a college which has a high starting salary for the career you are interested in. Currently, I attend a college where the average starting salary for my major is > 70k (with a bachelors). So yeah, if your going for a degree in the humanities or social sciences, don't waste your money. Go to a cheap school and get into the workforce as much as possible. Or just choose a STEM field :)

Thinking that you either "deserve" or "don't deserve" things that happen to you.

Im quite guilty of this

There's a line. Deserving basic humanity and deserving a Bentley are two very different things.

Not really, as neither are owed to you and both are earned.

Okay you deserve basic humanity, you don't necessarily deserve a Bentley.

Basic humanity though. That's not earned. I guess it can be lost if you're a big enough piece of shit, but it's not like you need to go out of your way for people to have the common decency to treat you like a human being.

the fact that you acknowledge it means you know its not like that in reality. maybe just lack motivation/hardness about sitations in life

Internal locus of control bro

An easy fix is to assume everything that happens to you is your own fault no matter how crazy it sounds. If done correctly it acts as a motivator to be better.

It’s quite hard to do and essentially feels like victim blaming yourself to the point of not making poor choices.

For example if you fell gravely sick assume it is your fault for not taking better care of yourself. Then pull through the sickness and do everything you can to never be in that situation.

This is not a good idea for many people. If it works for you, then great! It works for you! But many people such as myself would just end up getting depressed as a result.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control

This has got to be the most universally applicable advice in this thread. The world turns, shit happens, most of it is totally out of your control. Just gotta play your hand the best you can.

My religious upbringing really fucked with this one.

"But it's all part of God's plan."

"then it seems God really hates me."

God doesn't hate you. He just has a bet with the Devil.

And if you find yourself in a scenario that you truly don't deserve? Guess what. This is your life. Shit happens. Make it better....

A life long friend of mine came back from Afghanistan with lead in his leg and a lot of dead friends.

He didn't sign up for that but he ended up with it. He has kids. He got help, quit drinking, and got a good job.

It isn't easy. In fact, it is probably harder than anything I've ever had to do. But he fought through and is now leading a good life with a good job and a happy family. There is no despair so great that you cannot overcome.

that's a pretty cool one. the only one that made me think. :)

We are all guilty of this from time to time and this is a good reminder to anyone at any age.

It's such a toxic way of thinking, overall.

It leads to all sorts of negative thought patterns and actions. Especially when turned external. Revenge comes about from thinking people "deserve" bad things because they've done bad things.

Maybe they should be locked up for a variety of reasons that are good for society (safety of others, deterrence, rehabilitation, etc.), but saying someone "deserves" punishment is just wrong. It's not a justification in and of itself for anything, as it's inherently meaningless.

Same with saying that people "deserve" good things happening to them. You can choose to reward someone yourself for their actions, but when you look beyond what you control, you just end up pining away for some mythical reward that will never come. Whether for yourself or others.

And then your framework collapses when a good person has something bad happen to them, or a bad person has something good occur. "But they didn't deserve that!" It leads to being bitter and frustrated with the world.

Great summary, this is exactly the context I meant in my post you replied to!

I most definitely didn't deserve the cancer I got at 26...

Cancer is such a bitch of a disease. Nobody deserves a cancer, not even Hitler. This is why there is no use in exclaiming that YOU specifically don't deserve one, because no one does.

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Deserved losing the war or getting shot by the Red Army, but not the cancer.

You can't "deserve" or "not deserve" cancer. You just get it. If you are one of the people who's unlucky and gets it you'll have to deal with it. It isn't easy. In fact it is very hard, not only for you but also for your family and close friends.

I deserved to hear this :'(

But what if I do deserve them?

We don't deserve (or not deserve) anything. When we say we "deserve" something (typically with a negative connotation), we take a negative perspective on the thing that has happened--we accept it without fighting it, because for whatever reason it karmically makes sense that it would happen to us.

That is a defeatist attitude, and only engenders future negative feelings and "deserved" events. We are bad and so bad things happen to us, such is the way of the world, we tell ourselves.

Adopting such an attitude makes it hard to achieve anything positive because you only surround yourself with negativity. Trust me... life is fucking hard but we make it harder on ourselves than it needs to be.

The opposite is similar, except it's outward-facing instead of internal (e.g. the problem is with others, not me) and similarly prevents you from being able to see the issue for what it is and to change course and effect a healthier attitude and means of dealing with bad things that happen.

What is a better train of thought? I agree it’s nonsensical, but I do it anyway. I grew up with a belief in karma and never quite shook it. Just accepting things as is sounds like an over simplification

I don't mean to oversimplify when I say that attitude just means you're accepting whatever happens to you, I was just trying to describe the general feeling you have when generating those thoughts. If you feel shitty about yourself, it is easy to accept shitty things and it is very hard to say "well wait a minute, hold on..." because (at least for me) it was easier to connect the negative dots than the positive ones. Positive outcomes always felt less likely.

Honestly, I don't have a great answer for you, I think it's something we have to find in ourselves because it's one of the few human experiences that are not easily shared. It took me years to be able to break the cycle of negativity, and even then it was only because I started smoking weed regularly which allowed me to see the positive in negative situations. While I absolutely do not recommend developing a weed habit (save your comments, I also wouldn't recommend someone start drinking coffee for the same reasons), the high allowed me to sort of train my brain to see the positive in negative situations. Keeping that positivity helped me overcome a lot of anxieties and now, even though I'm not 100% better, I am shitloads better at dealing with stress and depression and sadness in real time than I was even just two years ago, because even when bad shit happens, I can sort of reach back to how I feel when I'm "good" and try to rationalize and reconcile my way back to sanity. I just got better at giving myself tools to deal with the moment-to-moment badness.

So I guess what I recommend is trying to change your perspective, whatever that means to you, and trying to find some common thread or through-line that you can reach back to when things get tough.

I know this is a rambling and probably unsatisfactory explanation, but if you have any questions or need to talk or something, feel free to PM me. It's really hard to change your mentality, especially when it comes to this stuff. It's a struggle in the truest sense.

Thanks man, solid answer. I always like to try and learn from others perspective. I’ve been working on the same journey for years. It can definitely be a grind sometimes lol

I fucking feel you, man.

For whatever it's worth, recently I've taken to separating my bad habits and tendencies from "me", e.g. they are bad things I do and think but just because I do and think them does not mean they are part of who I am and they do not define me.

It might seem like a meaningless distinction, but I've found that framing an internal problem as something external makes it easier to attack. It feels less like I'm attacking part of my identity and more like I'm getting rid of an invasive parasite, y'know? The zebra mussel of thoughts as it were.

I agree with OP above that no one "deserves" anything, but I don't agree with accepting how things are. If you're not happy with them, or think they should be different, then work to change them!

But don't just complain about them in a "woe is me" kind of way, or justify doing things to others with a "they deserve it" kind of thinking. Both are detrimental to your psyche and society at large.

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a person who can endure pain or hardship without showing their feelings or complaining.

I'm not sure if I should take that as a compliment... but that is basically 100% accurate.

I used to think it was a positive attribute until I realized that it meant I was the only person who realized something was wrong with me. That's what being a man meant to me--enduring whatever came my way, no matter the cost, because appearing strong in the face of adversity felt better than admitting weakness.

I'm still not great at admitting my failings and weaknesses and the things I keep to myself that I never want to share, but I'm getting better at it. And that's all I can ask of myself.

So instead, as an outlet, I try to help those around me I feel are experiencing the same lows I have been through. Nobody should ever, ever, ever feel as worthless and as hopeless and as unloved as I have felt. If there's one thing I have learned in all these years it's that nobody is worthless or hopeless or unloveable. It sounds so cliche but it's the truth. I try now to draw strength from my weaknesses. It's working out alright. Life is a beautiful gift that is worth living no matter how bad you think you have it.

Stay positive, people. It'll save your life some day <3

It's irrelevant. Things don't happen to you based on deservedness, they happen due to cause and effect.

"Everything happens for a reason. That reason is usually physics"

Speaking in contrary to a lot of this particular post chain: it's completely fine to believe you Deserve/Don't Deserve a specific thing so long as you understand that a.) your feelings may not be rational on the subject, b.) what you Deserve/Don't Deserve should be based entirely around factors you control, not other people and c.) you can't obsess over how worthy or unworthy you are of a certain thing. Obsessing over "deserving" things (especially nontangibles like other people's time and emotional energy) as well as "not deserving" nontangibles like friendships, happiness, success etc are really bad spirals that can lead to abusive behaviours and mental health struggles.

For example: It's completely fine and healthy say something like, "I deserve to get a massage, I've worked hard the last month!" That's you determining you deserve something that you can control, based on something you did. You made a decision to work hard, so you are making a decision to reward yourself because you're proud of the work you did/recognize you put a lot of time or energy into it. That's completely fine!

Conversely, it's unhealthy and irrational to say something like "I deserve better than to be ignored by my friend, I was listened to HIS problems so I Don't Deserve to be ignored!" It's completely normal for you to feel upset that you don't have an emotional confidant (especially because you were that person's), but it's irrational and unfair because you don't "Deserve" another person's time just because you volunteered yours. It also don't take into account that the other person involved may have other stressors in their life, so they might actually WANT to be emotionally available but need to prioritize their own wellbeing or the wellbeing of immediate family etc right then.

Retooling the idea of "I deserve this/I don't deserve this" so that it's more about yourself and the direct consequences of your own actions rather than being bitter about other people is fine. The problem only comes about when people take it to complain about how they "deserve" a better life or "don't deserve" to have to deal with a situation, but don't bother to fix it because in their minds, since they don't deserve a bad situation/deserve a good situation, that means they don't have to fix it.

(FWIW you can use Deserve negatively (demanding unfair labour from other ppl, etc) and not-Deserving positively (deeming you don't deserve to be used by another person and ending that relationship, platonic or otherwise)! I was just trying to keep it simple-ish.)

I hope that makes some degree of sense!

I appreciate the well-thought-out post, and you do make several good points. Maybe I should be less harsh in myself

Oh my god I see this all around me and it’s one of the things I hate most.

been chasing this girl cause im crazy about her even though she treats me like ass; kept telling myself this was some punishment for something

The basic difference between a warrior and an ordinary man is that a warrior takes everything as a challenge, while an ordinary man takes everything as either a blessing or a curse.

Thanks, I don't think I've heard this one before. Sounds like an old proverb or saying.

It's something Carlos Castaneda wrote back in the 70s. He was big on stoicism and accepting the world and events within it as they are, doing your best regardless, and never indulging in regret, pity, or 'woe is me' attitudes.

You might find his UCLA dissertation interesting -- The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge.

Better to know you don't deserve the bad things happening to you. Imagine if you did.

Essentially knowing that Life isn't out to get you.

I don’t follow. You can definitely deserve things that happen to you when you’re in your twenties.

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How is that relevant?

But why shouldn't I think that? Sound like self awareness to me. I get you meant it on a deeper level then that. Way your sins and forgiveness. But shouldn't I be aware of what I do and do not deserve?

Don't be comfortable.

Seriously, be UNCOMFORTABLE. Interview for a job that's out of your league. Ask the girl out that's out of your league. Apply for grad school that's out of your league.

When the worst thing that can happen is the same as if you never tried, TRY.

Doh: Edit Typo. Silly phone!

That's my secret, captain, I'm always uncomfortable.

Seriously, be UNCOMFORABLE

way ahead of you

Sometimes you have to stop and think if maybe you’re comfortable with your current discomfort

And sometimes you have to stop and think if maybe you're uncomfortable with your current discomfort of being comfortably uncomfortable.

I think that realization is what often pushes people to make a change.

Well asking people out that are out of your league stops just being uncomfortable after a few times and gets depressing.

Until you find yourself dating an amazing person you wouldn't have otherwise known.

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"for a few months before she realizes who you really are"

I think you're relationshipping wrong if being "who you really are" is an issue...

This comment should be way up this thread. Thank you.

Similarly: Be happy, but not content.

Be ambitious. Don't settle where you are in life, but be striving for better. Try to be happy all along the way, but that's being happy with the process, not with the place.

You'll have plenty of time in retirement to be both happy and content with your life. Don't be in your 20s.

alchemical gold in this advice. ty.

oh and, take your own advice!

Thanks, I needed this right now

Kind of. You should feel comfortable overall, but you need to get out of your comfort zone or else you will stagnate. Things change. Do not become a museum piece. :)

There’s that one AskReddit thread about how it was a lot worse than them saying no.

Definitely. Especially for me as an agoraphobe, every time I manage to get out the door for a reason that isn't totally necessary, it's a huge step into discomfort until I'm in a crowd or with familiar people.

Push yourself to do work now.

I really needed to hear this today. Thank you.

I don't know why but your comment hit me the most in this thread. I'm gonna get after it today, thanks for the motivation!

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If you're asking people out in a way that makes them feel harassed, the problem is probably with you buddy

That's not very relavant

If she considers something you do as harassment, either you're being an asshole or she's being an asshole and 100% neither of you should be together and you should nope right out of there

I can’t tell if this is satire, or if you are just a complete retard...

Not investing in yourself. Workout, learn skills (professional and personal). Stop wasting time.

How would you proceed with learning skills? Work at different jobs? Reading? Joining clubs?

In my experience: Professionally - learn the ins and outs of Excel (macros, modeling, power user stuff), SQL, Tableau, R, and Python. you will have no problem commanding 100k a year if you are an expert in these areas.

Personally, just do whatever interests you. Personal finance, fitness, piano, learn a language, learn to cook, woodworking, plumbing, skiing, gardening..etc anything that you're interested in. It will make you a more relaxed and interesting person and something to look forward to when you're done with work.

Where is/what is the best way to learn those languages listed above and what application do they have applied to the real world where someone could command such a high salary? Asking as a 20 y/o going to college for CS

R and Python are widely used in Machine Learning (python is useful for practically everything), SQL is also always useful.

Excel is imho a bit useless as a computer scientist. If you're competent in R and/or python with the scipy stack there's barely any extra use in learning Excel.

Don't focus on salary in your studies, you're good to go anyway in compsci. Find something that you actually find interesting. If you are interested you suddenly find yourself learning about the areas in your free time and it's fun. Then you also get good at it and it will be a marketable skill (assuming you don't delve into weird areas, but even then there is probably some university doing research on it).

Follow your gut feeling, you'll notice what I mean after ~2/3 semesters

Books, classes, and most importantly, actual experience solving problems.

Pick a beginner-level problem for the skillset you are interested in, and then don't stop until you have figured out how to solve it. It will take lots of research, mistakes, and way more time than you expect. If you get really stuck, find people who have done it before and ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask dumb questions. At the end, your solution will not be perfect -- this is OK. You are learning. But dammit, you will be proud of what you have accomplished!

Reflect on what you learned, research how you could have done it better, take a well-earned break, and then pick a problem that is a bit harder to to take your skills to the next level.

Learn to enjoy the struggle and pain of doing something you haven't done before. This is how growth occurs.

There needs to be better systems in place for helping people find such beginner problems that apply to the real world.

I took online courses. I studied music theory, computer science, and a little art online.

https://www.edx.org/

https://www.coursera.org/

https://www.udemy.com/

Edx and Coursera give you certificates that you can put on your CV. Don't be goofed by Udemy's "sale". Their courses are always on sale.

Google things that interest you and then your town. Example: Succulent groups/classes Milwaukee. It should give you some hits. I've learned new skills and made new friends just going to 30 minute classes at the local nursery and it's free.

What if you live on a small city without really much activity like that? In Spain our cities are like 1% of US cities and I even live on the suburbs so most things I do are through internet.

You'll have to carve out travel time. Unless you get out into your own community and start something yourself. Chances are you aren't the only young person in the area and they'd like to meet new friends and learn new skills too. Even just practicing something you're already good at creates new skill.

I tell this to all of our employees. It bugs me when someone doesn’t take an interest in their profession outside of business hours. You don’t have to do work for me, but do some work for yourself. I love video games as much as the next guy, but when people ask me how I learned a dozen programming languages, 3D modeling, auto repair, video editing, sculpting, woodworking, new sports, and all the other stuff I have fun with, it’s because I love learning. If you think the only places to learn are in college or on the job, you’re already stagnant. Not only will you be a boring person to talk to, when lay-offs happen at your workplace, you’re just not marketable to the next one.

Going to law school and then dropping out in their last semester.

Good luck finding a non-law job with law school on your resume. Even moreso if you didn't finish.

When you inevitably default on your student loans because you couldn't find a job, now you can't qualify for the military or any other government jobs.

Oh, and you also can't take out new loans to finish up school.

Except now you can't finish school either because you only have ~7 years from when you begin to finish.

Source: Am royally fucked and would be worth more money if I jumped off a bridge tomorrow. Loans have ballooned up to $300,000 and can't be discharged

If you’re in California, Virginia, Vermont, or Washington you can take the bar exam without having your degree. I don’t know if that helps you, but I hope it does.

How did you do it Frank? How did you pass the Bar exam in Louisiana?

Haven't heard this line in a while. Great movie!

If you’re in California, Virginia, Vermont, or Washington you can take the bar exam without having your degree.

I'm sorry, what? You don't need a law degree to take the bar exam? Surely you can't be an attorney without a law degree...

If you can demonstrate you understand the law well enough to pass the bar, you can be, in those states.

Huh, noted.

I asked google, and that’s what she said.

Err sort of. There are a bunch of subsidiary requirements if you dont have a law degree in most, if not all, of those states. For example, three years work experience in a recognized legal environment.

Yeah, I figured there would be, but at least that’s a potential way out for OP who seems pretty hopeless right now.

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French foreign legion

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From what I understand they give you a new French identity when you join and you get the option of French citizenship under that identity after a few years. From the debt collectors perspective it looks like you just vanished.

French Foreign Legion. Look it up. Take a look at your life and think about it.

The French Foreign Legion is a military service branch of the French Army established in 1831. The Legion is unique in that it was, and continues to be, open to foreign recruits willing to serve in the French Armed Forces. Wikipedia

Honestly ya. FFL. Or i dont know what country you are in, but many times the Military is also a very fulfilling life style. Sometimes they can help with debt but not always. Either way, wish you the best.

This is actually first time I see someone recommending Legion in Reddit! But it is an interesting option, for sure: http://en.legion-recrute.com/

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Different how?

I’m just curious.

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That would be interesting to see. What you say goes against everything I've heard of the legion, but my understanding was also very much casual and outdated.

Hey (wo)man: You're having a rough time. I don't know you. I probably won't. But please, please don't jump off a bridge. You're worth something to the people who know you. Maybe it's not monetary worth. Maybe you tell funny jokes. Maybe you send them nice dog pictures. Maybe Cheryl who rides the bus with you every day thinks you're a cute person. Who knows? But people love you. People respect you, and want you around. Having negative $300,000 is rough and honestly, I'm not qualified to give advice on the topic. I think there's a /r/FinancialAdvice which could help you maybe. I just want you to know that (and yes its cliche) problems are solvable. I don't believe in any god/gods or any mystic stuff. I just know after too many friends hanging out near bridges with ropes and bathtubs with knives that suicide isn't the answer. If you want to talk or vent or fucking cry, just PM me. Please, remember people care :)

Serious question: Why did you drop out in your last semester knowing you're almost done and might as well secure the degree? With the amount of loans you accrued up to that point, in addition to all your time and energy spent in law school, wouldn't dropping out not feel worth it? I'm genuinely curious.

It's possible they were dealing with the death of a loved one, or other serious personal situation, or maybe medical issues.

No, no, no. With those kind of reasons you can freeze your degree and take some time off to sort yourself out/get back on track. The school allows you to do that. Anyway, how do you accumulate 300k$ in debt? How wasteful do you have to be?

It’s not necessarily about being wasteful. If you’re attending a law school at full price, you’re generally looking at around 180-210k over theee years to cover tuition and room/board. Overtime that interest continues to accumulate and it sounds as though this person is 7+years out of school. The general rule of them is that the principal explodes to around 270-300+k over 10 years.

Keep swimming. You'll see a life raft eventually. You have value.

Leave law school off your applications if its hurting you. Never put anything on your resume that isn't a positive...

Wait? - You can't get into the military if you have debt?

Huge amounts of debt are concerning. Normal debt (car note, mortgage, student loans) in normal person amounts are not an issue. But, histories of bad credit and money management are concerning.

Because they potentially open you up to blackmail by foreign governments....”oh, you are 300k in debt? Well, how about we give you $100,000 and you tell us where your unit will be for the next month...” Now think about that voice being, say, Iran when we were in Iraq and who they could feed that information to.

I mean, how's that any different from non-debt "Oh, you have 50,000$ already? Well, how about we give you $100,000 more and you tell us...etc". Greed is greed, it feels like it wouldn't make much of a difference if the person is in debt or not.

I mean, sure, greed is greed. But if you have some money in the bank, vs you’re worried about getting your house foreclosed on and your wife and kids living on the street, which of those 2 scenarios is more likely to lead someone to betray their country? Some percent of greedy folks will betray their country for money, but this is about the people at the margin, who don’t want to, but might in the right circumstances.

That's fair. I've never really been desperately poor or in heavy debt so I can't relate properly.

Couldn't you do PSLF or PAYE?

Only if the loans were federal. I think those cap out at 140k... for law school, OP probably had to take out more, and private ones.

Is it possible for loan forgiveness? Work in a non profit for 10 years making minimum payment and fill out the paperwork. I don’t know if this works for all loans but I know many people who have done this with various degrees.

Additionally I’m sure that debt has been resold multiple times. Try having them send you proof of debt every few years- if they lose the proof they can’t charge you for it and this happens more often than you think.

Teaching helps with loans. You need to put some time into it-like 5 or 10 years I think my friend said.

and would be worth more money if I jumped off a bridge tomorrow

Well yeah... but that is true of most of us. Do NOT conflate money with your value as a human. I do not have a good solution for your situation, but "cashing in" is close to the worst possible solution. Carry on, even when you see no future as being possible. I did and I could have never predicted where I am at now. Carry on.

Law school is a bitch. Drop out when you realise it isn't for you, I suppose. I've grafted three years and learnt to enjoy it, but it really has taken a while to.

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That is just plain delusional

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Well, I am a lawyer. The grass is not greener over here.

Getting into a relationship with an SO who has control issues.

A lack of respect for personal boundaries is a serious red flag. The risks include depleted savings, ruined credit, damaged a career, frayed ties to family and friends, and ending up with one or more unplanned children.

Serious advice: if a charming person as that red flag but you think you can manage it, don't even try.

This rings so true. I recently totally broke up with someone (serious, thinking about marriage and kids) because he had control issues; though there would have never been any issue with finance, he was really specific about the number of kids he wanted me to have/gender he wanted them to be, the city he wanted us to be in, etc.

He centered all of our time around him and his goals, and it was exhausting, and he always told me what about myself to change.

Annnnnd he couldn't even tell you what my favorite book is. So. He's not a bad person, but he needs to get a Joan Cusack or some other supporting character.

What GENDER he wanted them to be? There's literally no controlling that. What would he have done if he wanted a boy but it was 2 girls? Just not love them their entire lives?

I want healthy kids first, but my dream has always been to have two girls. If I could choose! I would love a boy equally, even four boys. Whenever I mentioned that to him, and also that I ultimately wanted healthy babies, he would just say that two genders was better, and then argue with me a little about it.

I think if there wasn't an even gender mix, he would want another baby.

I sort of don't want to have kids naturally because I am worried about my body, and I think adoption is better anyway. He wasn't for that at all. Too controlling. He's not the one having the baby in the first place!

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yes, and I don't want to do that unless I'm selecting to avoid disease

When you look at someone through rose coloured glasses, all the red flags just look like flags

Omg same here my Controlling Narc ex bf would always point out things that I should change myself, not for the intention of "me" being a "better person" but too only fit he's selfish standards

Sounds like my first boyfriend. What a dick.

Yes yes yes yes yes!!!! I recently broke up with my narc ex, or nex, a few months back. I feel so free.

Controlling is not romantic. Partnership, not ownership.

Mine wasn't a narcissist, just a sort-of jerk

This is by far the most solid relationship advice on this post. Relationships with people who don't respect personal boundaries are incredibly toxic and I've seen so much damage done from them. It's the only red-flag that I consider to be near universal.

I've known people who were happy being married to people who would have annoyed the heck out of me, but they worked well with, but I can't think of any who were happy in the long run with someone who would not respect their personal boundaries.

I suppose the flip side is: if more than one partner breaks up with you because they feel "smothered" or "controlled" or "not their own person" then go to a therapist!

Struggling with this now. Moved in with my current boyfriend after just a couple months because it made sense, we were together all the time and it was annoying alternating houses. We’re a little over 4 months in now, and I feel like I never get alone time because he just wants to be there and talk all the time. For instance, he came into the bathroom while I was showering just to talk about work and all I wanted was 10 minutes of quiet time. I find myself talking less because he is constantly interrupting and trying to finish my sentences, I just want to get a sentence out but I can’t. So I’ve stopped trying. I don’t mean to make him sound like a bad guy, he’s not. Just realizing I jumped in too quick and while I’m definitely welcome at my previous home, I know my leaving will destroy him. But I’m losing parts of myself by the day so I have to do something. We’ve talked about this and things get better for a couple days but then revert right back.

That reads like a pattern called the cycle of abuse. Abuse isn't necessarily violence.

I started typing a long explanation of why he’s this way and how I don’t exactly help the behavior, but when I reread it I realized I was making excuses. He makes me feel guilty when I complain about his not letting me speak, asking if what he does isn’t enough or that he can’t imagine life without me, etc. At one point I said something about us moving too fast and that I shouldn’t completely move in yet, he responded with something about paying me to stay because he loves me so much. Lots of red flags, hindsight is 20/20 or something like that. But now I’m embarrassed because I truly thought this was “it” and I was going to marry him.

There's nothing to be embarrassed about. Your family and friends love you and just want to see you happy - if you end this relationship because it wasn't right for you, they'll just be relieved for you!

It shows maturity and integrity to recognize a mistake. Take pride in those two traits; they'll serve you well in life.

Getting into a relationship with an SO who has control issues.

Also applies to people in ther 30s, 40s, 50s and basically ALLs.

Can attest...I wasted two years of savings in 6 months on my ex. Ill never forgive myself

Getting married for any reason other than love.

I thought this was common sense

My brother does that. He broke up twice with his gf because she wouldnt let him go out alone. They are in a relationship again. I am kinda concerned. But I really dont wanna mess with his lovelife.

Are you stalking my life ? Get out of my life !

Not having the dedication to save and keep saving. I currently just got out of college and started to get into the rhythm of working after having a dry spell on applying places since December. I’m lucky I had some money to back up those months of not really being employed. Now that I started to get some income in, I’m trying so hard to put away those paychecks and hold onto them for when I want to find a house or for retirement fund. But I’m still in the mindset of if I see something I need it.

Having a healthy savings account helps out a lot, I was out of work and making no money for just over 2 years and I barely had 1k left in savings when I finally got a job.

A savings "trick" that has really worked for me has been to set up a direct deposit, so each paycheck a set amount of money is automatically put into a savings account. I basically treat my savings like a tax being taken out of my paycheck, and I think of whatever amount that's leftover as the amount I bring home. I've been doing this since I graduated college 7 years ago. I highly recommend giving it a try, it's such a mindless way to save if you can just leave the money alone in the beginning.

And if you're struggling with impulse buying, what helps me is putting things into online shopping carts and then closing the windows. If I still want whatever it is in a few days or weeks, if I haven't forgotten it's in there, I let myself buy it. Some things I obsess about the whole time but most things I tend to forget I "needed."

Okay, done with my unsolicited advice.

Have 10% of your net income automatically transferred to a savings account that is a different bank so it will take a couple days for any transfers from savings to checking to hit your account. That makes it much harder to overspend.

This is similar to "Paying yourself first" and is the best advice I could give to anyone at 20. Even if you got a crappy paying job, 10% always goes to "future you" and you will thank yourself for it. It saved my ass more than a few times.

I have automativ transfers set up, so every paycheck 50 automatically goes in my savings. Its great. Plus, I budget in the mint app.

It's easy if you have it set up to come out automatically, so you don't manually have to move the money into your savings or 401k account. You just see how much your paycheck is after that and you think ok, this is what I have to spend this month.

Congrats on getting the job! I hope I can get one soon and start saving as well

I always save when I have a decent enough income. The problem is the income, usually.

Life is so much less stressful if you have a decent emergency fund though. Imagine going through that dry spell without enough savings at the start. It's nice knowing you can leave a job you really hate (or laid off) and spend a few months applying and getting to be more picky about the next one vs taking the 1st offer you get because you really need the money.

Staying at a job too long. If you're not making more money or in line for promotion 30 months after you start, you'll likely be kept there for awhile. Big salary changes these days pretty much only occur by job hopping. https://www.themuse.com/advice/theres-a-sweet-spot-for-when-you-should-job-hop-if-you-want-to-make-more-money

Not contributing to their 401k/IRA. If your company matches, max it out. 100% on ROI is basically unheard of long term so it's free money.

Pouring money into depreciating assets (expensive vehicles, large rent payments when cheaper options are available)

Going to grad school just because you have no idea what you want to actually do. Have a purpose and goal. Know about a dozen people who went to law school just because, and had their life delayed heavily due to it.

Letting your health deteriorate. You can't eat or drink like you were a teen, and health problems can sneak up on you. Nip it in the bud, otherwise it will just get harder.

Letting idealizations of someone blind your judgement (marrying someone without knowing them as well as you should, or overlooking red flags)

Not using BC or a Condom in one night stands, or when with a partner you can't realistically see supporting and raising a kid with.

Spend too much time trying to impress people on social media.

Just got a job that matches up to 8% of my paycheck and then at the end of year puts in 2% of yearly salary into said 401k and every 2 years goes up 1% until 6%, showed my mom and she said she would disown me if I didn't max that shit out

Hell yeah! If you don't mind me asking, what Industry and country? I can't imagine many companies doing that for outside new hires in the States.

Insurance in New Jersey, working as a claims adjuster

Nice man (or woman). Very rare to get that nice of a package (assuming your salary is around market value).

Congrats

I know I’m making less money by staying at my job, but I like it and I’m compensated well. If you enjoy your job, feel free to keep doing it. I’ve got friends that went to prestigiousnamehere and wish they had never left.

I’m also serially monogamous in almost anything so who knows.

My life is stable as shit, but I’ve had two friends marry their partner that was pregnant and threatened suicide as a bargaining chip. So, uh.. don’t get someone pregnant you don’t want to spend the rest of your life with.

Staying at a job too long

On the flip side though, there are still plenty of jobs worth staying at. I have a great government job in a town where they're hard to come by, so I'm not giving that up for anything.

Yeah there's definitely a trade off there.

I'm financially illerate and just started my twenties. What does maxing out a 401k/IRA mean?

Some employers match the money you put into a 401k up to a percentage of your earnings. Maxing out just means matching that percentage, so free money for future you.

The folks on /r/personalfinance will disagree. They claim that maxing out a 401k means putting in the legal maximum (above and beyond the amount that the company matches)

Which is what you should do if you have your high interest loans paid off and at least the minimum on your low interest loans paid off.

Making the maximum contribution so that you can get the most out of what you're offered.

Maxing out means that there is a limited amount of money (percentage) of your salary that you can put into your 401k. You don’t pay taxes on that earned money. However, if you pass that limit, then you do pay some sort of tax.

Those are retirement savings accounts. Companies may match money you put in.

Staying at a job too long.

Came here to post this. (Source: have never had the self-worth to attempt to change jobs. Am now 42; base pay is 20% more than when I started, and dropping. Now I'm too old and too udnerskilled and too lacking in self-worth to move on.)

Is it bad that I'm 28 and only just managed to get a full time job, and I dont CARE that its only minimum wage because its the most money I've ever made in my life? Bipolar disorder and anxiety kept me from being able to hold down a job for longer than a few weeks or more than 15h/week.

My current job doesnt exhaust me, I like my co-workers, my work is fairly easy with a moderate amount of responsibility. I can take days off when I want (within reason). I'm really knowledgeable at my job and I feel like I'm not disposable. I've been there for a year now. They bought me a cake. I cried. It was great.

Promotions would be nice I guess, but currently I can afford rent, and all my bills and 2 pets and still have some money left over each paycheque if I spend it smartly. And thats with my paycheque alone. I live with my boyfriend and he makes a decent amount and contributes equally.

I don't have any savings, but I'm in the process of it. We're putting a bit aside for our first big vacation together.

I don't care if I dont move up at my job. I feel as if I'm good right where I am. Plus the manager barely gets a dollar above minimum, not worth the stress. I refuse to burn myself out at this job.

I think that when I hit 30, I'm going to look back on my 20s and be okay with it. I spent years trying to become mentally stable, I am finally in a loving, supportive relationship. I have some financial stability. I'm setting everything up for myself.

Took me way longer than I'd wished, but I'm here.

30 months after you start

Curious - why did you pick 30 months?

2 and a half years is a decent enough time to show your worth to a company. If you haven’t been approached by 30-36 months, you’re probably not in their plans for promotion.

Presumably just a different way of saying 2 and a half years. Doesn't seem quite as arbitrary put like that.

Agree with the job part. Im working in the same place for almost 5 years now and haven't been promoted yet. :(

This is excellent advice. You sound like an experienced and wise man/woman.

I’m a 27 year old manchild, but have a very impressive group of successful mentors I’ve lucked in to. All are multi millionaires and I value their advice more than any degree.

I don’t have many talents, but befriending powerful people is one of them

I work at a university and they match 13% while my mandatory contribution is 10%. And I wanted to reduce it. Thanks for this advice.

Lmao nice name

How many of those people you know who went to law school work as attorneys?

Most went to good schools (top 30ish), so they eventually found work, but as temps making like 60k a year. Only ones who got the Big firm salary were top 14 ones or ones with obvious nepotism connections.

Guilty of the last one. Can afford what I buy but looking back, garnering approval from people doesn't exactly pay the bills

How do you suggest one job hops and give up the security of the paycheck and comfort of the environment?

I'm really struggling with the grad school/career thing right now. Cant stand my current job but I'm finding it next to impossible to even get the time of day from employers outside a 30 mile radius of my small town. I've debated doing grad school for engineering for like 2 years now mostly because it seems like an escape from my job and not something I 100% want to do. I think the reason I've never been able to actually commit to it is because I know deep down it's a poor decision both in terms of lost income and expense. Ugh I hate how trapped I feel right now. Part of me just wants to pack my shit and head out to a city with a better job market and then try to get a new job.

All of this shit. Preach man!!!

The last one! I made a conscious decision at the start of the year that I wouldn’t really be posting as much on Facebook and until I did this I hadn’t actually realised how much I used to care if I only had 1 like on a new selfie I put up.

I think I’ve changed my profile picture once this year when I got a haircut and put up a few photos of my baking and that’s it.

I'm 19. That one stood out to me.

I'm in my second year of engineering. Not because I want to be here. Because everyone else said I should be here and I didn't have a better idea.

Pretty sure I'll get this degree and never use it. I guess I'm just putting off not knowing what to do with myself.

  1. 60k/yr W2 for 6 months
  2. 1 yr unemployment
  3. 69k/yr W2 for 10 months
  4. 4 months unemployment
  5. 40/hr (~69k/yr FTE W2 equivalent) 1099 for 2 months
  6. 42/hr (~85k/yr) W2 Current

So I've gotten 41% increase in pay in less than 3 years by job hopping without significant tenure at any place, and almost half of that spent unemployed. Not sure I recommend this approach, but there is more money in jumping in most cases. Studied Econ for reference, no programming/finance/accounting background.

May I ask what industry/companies/positions you work in? Out of curiosity of course.

Worked as a project manager/implementation consultant for software companies (Healthcare and Payroll/HR), as a contractor working as a Systems Analyst on a team in HR for a discount retailer (borderline system help desk role), and most currently as a PM/BA for an insurance company. All big companies, all average US COL.

Not being interesting.

Really. It takes time to be interesting, it takes time to grow a personality and an identity that isn't based off the things you like (or worse, the things you hate) or some preconceived labels.

People say, go out, live life, have an adventure! And yeah, that's a way to be interesting. But reading books, writing, painting, cultivating a knowledge base either very specific or very broad- those are also ways to be interesting.

And what's so important about being interesting? Well, the obvious way is that its a way to meet people, and make them stay. And while you may not need people, its still nice to have them.

But I'd probably say even more important than that, is that it gives you a sense of who you are, and what you want to do, and thus ways to relate to people. Because you can't be interesting... without interests. And goals beyond just living to tomorrow and avoiding suffering, because life isn't just about avoiding suffering, or at least, we all should hope it isn't. And when tragedy inevitably comes, or you find yourself suddenly in a strange new place or alone...

in the end, you'll find yourself interesting. Too interesting to give up on, too interesting to throw away.

So you know. Do something unique. Dare to disagree. Explore an inclination, scratch an itch. Because in this cynical world, its dangerous to just be a collection of likes and dislikes, easily moved and swayed because you don't have a place-

because you don't have a place you want to be. So be interesting.

Thanks, that was inspiring. Saved.

I literally am saving every other comment here.

You can save the thread too...

Makes too much sense.

I did that too

Thanks for reminding me to save.

Will counter that -- An interesting person is an interested person. So if you want to be interesting to people, you've really got to listen to them, find out their goals, etc.

When people ask me to talk about myself now, it's hard to, because I spend all my time listening to other people. I often don't know what to say and I just ask them more questions. Yes, I have a ton of hobbies -- reading, gardening, ballet, etc., but I never talk about them unless they further the conversation.

It's good to develop hobbies, but if you want to have friends, you have to listen to people.

I think my problem is although I listen more than I speak, I don't ask enough questions to have something to listen to. Unless I'm in a group environment or there is a particular topic at hand, conversation tends to dry up unless the other person can hold a conversation by themselves.

In my experience, it also depends on how well you click with those other people. I find it much easier to keep a conversation rolling if you have a certain amount of chemistry with that person, and so long as you aren't both quiet people.

Oh, I definitely can hold conversations with people, but usually only if we know each other quite well or have a shared interest we can talk about.

But when we don't have a shared interest or a specific topic of discussion, conversation, uh, kinda disappears and it often gets a little awkward, even if its a close friend or family member.

Im a quiet hairstylist so this happened to me so much when I started. Now I have a few generic questions I ask people when the convo dries up. But sometimes it's ok for there to just be silence.

I've definitely had that happen to me a few times during a hair cut. I'm fine with the silence, but I always worry that the hairstylist isn't.

Haha that you don't have to worry about, we're usually happy to focus on the style and have a minute of quiet in a crazy day

Have you tried actively listening? Just repeat what the person says back to them

That sounds, interesting? I'm assuming you mean paraphrasing what they are saying as a way to bring out further discussion or more depth on what was said?

So you say I should vaguely repeat what others said?

I agree, but I meant more in the sense of establishing a core of who you are and what you believe in, a conception of the good, rather than simple social advice. Something to hold you together so that when the inevitable bumps in the road come your sense of self (especially self worth) aren't shaken, and to always inevitably find direction when you're lost, or a goal has been reached/made unfeasible. In fact I'd say that aiming to be superficially interesting (IE: pick up a bunch of throwaway skills and a personality you don't particularly care for as mere party tricks) is a terrible idea.

Of course you have to be interested in someone else to expect them to be interested in you; you shouldn't expect more from someone than how much you're willing to give in any relationship, I feel, just as a matter of being a decent human being.

This is great advice. Can you add this to your main comment?

This is the part i forget sometimes! Whenever I'm most excited about my own things, I forget to ask others about there's.

everyone does that. if you're not like that, people will eagerly spend time with you

Everyone should read “How to Win Friends and Influence People.” Basically what you’re saying in a book.

https://www.ted.com/talks/celeste_headlee_10_ways_to_have_a_better_conversation/up-next

This TED Talk goes into that. She describes being a great host as constantly being interested in other people, and they’ll never fail to be interesting.

Great talk, thanks

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That's what I do! Briefly mention myself and turn it back to them.

yeah. this may be a gender thing. listening has never helped me be anything more than a shoulder to cry on .

It is not a gender thing. If you want to do well with people, actively listen to them.

then its a not- me thing!

when someone tells you their problems, they do so because they feel close to you or trust you. I would take that as a huge compliment, and then set better boundaries with people.

I'm a bit confused, this has contradictory advice.

I’m thinking; be interesting, but also take the time to find out other people’s interests. Listening is great, but to really connect with someone you probably need to be able to say something about yourself as well.

If you want to have friends, listen to people. Literally no one cares that I have a hard time talking about myself.

Your second paragraph says that you have a hard time talking to other people because you just listen, rather then engage, is what I'm getting at.

Oh, I see.

What I meant was that I have a hard time talking about myself, but that rarely matters, because everyone wants to talk about them. During this listening journey (going on about four years), only three people have asked me serious questions about myself and wanted to hear about how I felt. Those people were more forgiving of me needing to take time to think, I would guess, than people who talk all the time.

Yeah, I tend to be more passive in convos, so I feel that for sure. People will match your energy when talking, though, so if you want them to pick your brain, you usually have to start picking theirs

I'm super active in convos! Mostly asking questions.

This is something I don't understand. What is it to be interesting? Drawing, writing, reading ― yeah, I do all this stuff. I also sing and I do archery. I do unique things. But that's the issue; it's too unique. Nobody else does all these things, nobody reads what I read, nobody is interested in the documentaries and movies I watch, nobody cares about classic music or archery, nobody cares about museums and my knowledge of history and other cultures.

So... what is it, to be interesting? If being unique is wrong, then I have to match what's mainstream? But what is interesting in mainstream? My personality is really good for old people, grandmas and mothers of teenagers always have a blast with me, but people in their 20s like me? God, I'm such a fucking killjoy for them! But old people won't be there for me when I'll be in my 40s...

I feel like there is a thing that helped my convert unique into interesting:

Experiences transfer and everything is connected.

I don’t expect people to specifically care about the last book I read, or my last time swinging by LA for Anime Expo, or that I’ve done radio work.

But experiences transfer. Good quotes from great books apply to situations, and compliment mundane conversations with choice bits of wisdom. If you can aim a bow, chances are there are aspects of learning that practices that give you better aim with other projectiles, as you find yourself applying some of the same principles in a game of darts at the bar. Maybe actually being able to sing adds punch a joke or a bit you’re doing with friends.

To leave examples behind (for a moment) and abstract a little bit, every activity we learn is made up of component skills. All of those component skills overlap with something, somewhere.

Your goal isn’t to have interests that overlap with other people, it’s to find out what part of your interests have a connection with the interests of other people.

I played YuGiOh competitively, so I could chat up my Poker friends about ways you can catch cheaters and read people. I taught my chess friends about how rock paper scissors can be gamed, so you shouldn’t use it to determine who plays white, and could really relate to them about what a disadvantage going second was, because that applies to both games noticably.

What I knew about Photoshop became useful to by DnD friends when they realized that they could edit the character art they rip from pinterest or whenever to better suit their head canon. They also appreciated when I learned about min-maxing from a longstanding video game hobby when they felt like making total scumbag characters, or balancing their homebrew.

My musical was really into what I had to say about audio editing software from my time recording and putting together my own radio bits.

Shit overlaps. Find out where you and people you meet start crossing.

How can Rock Paper Scissors be gamed?

If you know the person well, you can detect patterns. There's also that slight quarter-second as you're dropping your hands where you can see what they're going to throw so you can adapt.

And typically you play best 2 out of 3, so if they throw paper first and you throw rock, they're probably going to throw rock next, assuming you throw scissors. So you throw paper to counter-act that.

I feel like I'm also in your position and I'm still looking for answers. Everything I do is so niche barely anybody knows anything about it apart from a few stereotypes. Mainstream content isn't really all that thought provoking. It's good for relaxing after a long day of hard work or something but constantly consuming and not creating a little seems a bit mundane . I enjoy being able to create as much as consume and anything I create isn't mainstream enough for most people so I'm left boring & alone with my niche interests.

What's worst is that I don't even know what's mainstream. I talk about Walking Dead, I mention that I've heard of Game of Thrones, I just get "yeah I'm not into that". Then what the fuck are you into!? "Oh, well, I go to the gym when I'm not at work or in class", like what, that's it, you don't even browse memes, you're just completely dead? I can understand someone not wanting to talk to me and giving me empty answers until I walk away, but everyone? What, is gym the only mainstream hobby now, to the point that everyone's brain melted away?

Are you from a smaller town? I cant imagine that in a larger area that this would be the case.

Also history and classic music is referenced in your post. Some food for thought is considering what contemporary music/art forms that are also good in order to find a younger crowd who are into it. Theres plenty of good stuff being made today that isnt main stream, it may take some work to find it though. Anyway good luck! Your people exist, you just have to find them.

I'm actually from Montreal, one if the biggest cities in Canada lol. I will admit that my music knowledge is very limited when it comes to bands and current artists... that is one thing I should look into, but what about everything else? Movies, writing, books, series? Or are "good" hobbies only gym, sports, and traveling?

Ha hardly. As people say “every fruit has its buyer”. While I think that applies to people and relationships, I have found that there is a niche group of people on nearly every topic/interest imaginable. Again you’ll have to dig for it.

Im responding to you because I relate because when I was younger I think I may have had a similar outlook. In digging to find my people I had to go way out of my comfort zone, drop a lot of prejudgments and cynicism I had towards people, and let a series of failures happen in order to find success. Again good luck!

Oh my god, it's the same here. Nobody around me has any hobbies or interest outside of "Netflix and hanging out with friends"

Maybe I understand the concept of "being interesting" the wrong way, but to me it just sounds like you need to pick up random hobbies and habits just to seem unique or interesting, and to impress people.

Just do what you like because you enjoy it. Don't care about people's opinions. Your interests or hobbies don't define you as a person or put you in a certain locker. They can be good conversation starters and help you find people with similar interests, but that doesn't automatically make you friends or like each other.

My SO doesn't watch the same movies or listen to the same music I do. She's not into gaming, hifi, mechanical watches, photography, etc. I don't know the first thing about gardening, plants, flowers, or knitting. We don't read the same books. We still love each other.

I don't think I'm interesting but yeah I have the same problem. I do a bunch of random shit but nobody else does it.

Would help if I spoke to people.

This is how my boyfriend is, just by listening to podcasts and trying new things. One time he took a woodworking class and ended up making this gorgeous, intricate, flawless acoustic guitar. He’s always coming up with interesting facts to share. I just can’t get enough of him even 4 years later

I recommend everyone join their local International Toastmasters Club. It makes you speak about new topics on the fly or prepared every other week at my club.

If you're trying, it's one of the most lucrative hobbies in these terms you made. It makes you read more, write more, think about tough issues more, rethink how you think etc, all to have something to talk about at the club. This makes you more well-spoken, with a larger vocabulary, and when you go out, you will be more interesting to talk to.

I disagree about having things you like be what defines you -- perhaps it's my own unique perspective but in the past few years I've gotten into partner dancing and racing drones. It is interesting to talk about for 20-30 minutes I guess during a date, and interests fade, but just the concept of me learning these things and making myself approachable for dance teaches me much more than the exact elements of the hobby.

Going off this, one thing I notice more and more at universities is people bonding over their shared apathy or perceived lack of talent/direction.

Don’t make friends because their uncertainties reassure you about yours. Connect with people who expand your horizons and share similar interests. Peers hold great influence.

A while ago I heard someone say, you should always be the dumbest person in your group of friends, that way you will learn and grow.

My mentor and editor when I first became a reporter said you could be a good journalist by knowing a lot about a little, or a little about a lot. But to be great you needed to get to know a lot about a lot. So for a decade, thats what I tried to do. And today I know so much trivia it's honestly a little ridiculous. And when I impress people at the bar by getting really hard final jeopardy questions right, it feels good. I like to think this makes me a little interesting.

How did all of this learning affect your reporting? As a journalism student that's anxious about how little I know, I'm trying to figure out how to tackle learning more

It makes everything else about reporting easier. You instantly recognize references. You can make more analogies in your writing. Your interviews go places they wouldn't have otherwise.

...and its so easy to get started: just read! Read everything you can get your hands on. Most importantly, read about things you're not even necessarily interested in, but that which you think it might be helpful to know more about. Read about what types of municipal governments there are in your area and how they are different. Read about all the Oscar and Pulitzer and Nobel winners of the last 50 years, Learn to recognize the flag of every country in the world. Just read!

It sounds so simple when you put it like that! I've got my work cut out for me. I appreciate the info man time to go brush up on some bylaws I suppose!

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Hey man, it sounds like it's definitely not too late. Coming from a 21 year old I really appreciate hearing that you're still ready to hit your stride at 34. Chin up brother :)

I needed this. I'm not even 18 yet, but as someone who's excited to go to college next year and meet so many new people, I've realized that my profile is boring. I don't really have that many interests outside of video games. I don't have hobbies like sports or photography. I don't get out the house much. I didn't even know how much of a boring person I was until I was browsing college Facebook groups and reading everyone's introductions, and realizing that my life was incredibly dull compared to them. Right now I'm trying a lot of new things to add to my profile. I'm watching Black Mirror, cooking, listening to new music, etc. I'm also thinking of doing some vlogging. I don't want to let myself become a boring person, and have a dead social life in college and later on in life.

Just remember to do it for you, not for anyone else. Find something that genuinely excites you, and not just anything that will make other people feel that you are interesting(you might end up feeling like an imposter, which can be stressful). Many people respond better to someones genuine passion than if you tick off some generic “Interesting” boxes anyways.

Of course! I've always told myself not to be anyone else but myself. I've had an interest in all these activities before, I just never really pursued them until now. Thank you for the advice!

Good, then I think you will be alright. Good luck in college dude!

This applies to so many of my "basic" friends. Liking things because it's in or everyone else is doing it. I'm so tempted to send this to an old friend who would nag at me for being "the more likable friend". This girl has no hobbies except for shitposting on reddit and cant maintain a conversation about anything. I never knew how to kindly tell her, "you need qualities that are likable or interesting for people to like you".

no hobbies except for shitposting on reddit

Ironically, this would make her very interesting for a certain type of person

one thing i heard a while ago on how to be interesting is thus.

be a creator, not just a consumer.

People say, go out, live life, have an adventure! And yeah, that's a way to be interesting. But reading books, writing, painting, cultivating a knowledge base either very specific or very broad- those are also ways to be interesting.

Couple tips for this. Try to generally be open to try new things. Even if they don't seem like something you would like, give it serious consideration before you write it off. I've picked up a number of hobbies over the years this way, and it's a good way to meet new people.

Also if you think something is interesting, learn more about it. One of the most commonly cited reasons that people find someone interesting is because they are knowledgeable and passionate about SOMETHING. Even if it's something they themselves aren't really interested in, if you are passionate and know enough to speak intelligently about it, people find that intriguing. I've got a weird knack for trivial info, and the number of times something stupid I learned once has come up in conversation is innumerable.

Adding on, the first step to being good at something is to suck at something. When people say, "I don't do X cuz I suck at it" is such a cop out. Of course you suck at it...you never did it before. You gotta do something a thousand times to be kinda good at it. Ten thousand times to be really good at it. Don't try something once and then drop it because even though you are interested, you didn't succeed like you wanted to.

the first step to being good at something is to suck at something.

That's a great philosophy, but sometimes it just isn't true. Some people are just genuinely good at things from the beginning. Sometimes it's because they are skilled at something else and those abilities transfer well, sometimes it just is.

I mean, sure, some people have natural gifts, but most don't. Some people can transfer skills, other can't. I have a few high school age cousins that refuse to develop any skills because they aren't good at anything. My point is that if you aren't one of those blessed people, try anyway. People can still be good at stuff even if they don't have an angel to guide their hands.

What a wonderful and well written comment. As a 21 year old, I find myself doing many things other people my age would consider exciting or interesting, however I sometimes feel like I’m simply going through the motions and trying new things because why not. I feel like your comment hit the nail on the head for me to continue going and to continue growing. You never know where it will land you. My mom always said growing up, “It’s about the journey, not the destination.”

One of the best comments I've read on this god-forsaken site. This 20-something thanks you for your perspective.

Holy shit right? I'm 21 and I'm so used to numbing my brain on here doing the exact opposite of what this fantastic person just wrote about. This was beyond refreshing. I'm gonna go read a book or something, let's grow dude.

This oatmeal comic gave me great satisfaction when I was younger.

heres a better one...Be Yourself. If someone doesnt find you interesting, Fuck them, they arent good for you. Dont do anything because someone else will like you better for it.

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indeed, well said.

I'd rather embrace being boring than become one of those people who is hyper-anxious about being perceived as boring.

I don't need to entertain anyone.

Become someone who is interesting to you. We are not talking about the stereotype 'interesting' character flare. It's about entertaining yourself :)

You don't need to go to the extreme. Their advice is more of a way to get out of your shell to experience new things which helps you grow as a person.

I'm not interesting because almost nothing interests me, and the stuff that does is weird or taboo.

Yup that's me in a nutshell too. Bored and boring through and through.

I had a teacher once that told our class, "Don't try to be interesting, instead, be interested. By negation, an interested person will always be interesting." I've taken this to heart for a long time now.

Why is this not the top comment?

I meet so many boring people every month and my God - they just need a bit of a shake up or a short trip to just get out of their head or whatever malaise they've got going on.

Thank you.

And when tragedy inevitably comes, or you find yourself suddenly in a strange new place or alone...

in the end, you'll find yourself interesting. Too interesting to give up on, too interesting to throw away.

So you know. Do something unique. Dare to disagree. Explore an inclination, scratch an itch.

Loved this, thank you.

Me too. Going through a divorce, it gives me some hope.

Very good advice

This is the single best piece of advice I've ever been given. Honestly, thank you.

Fuck yes.

The method, in my opinion, is curiosity.

This so much. Live a life where you can hold yourself in a conversation. I try to say yes to everything, within reason. I try to do something new or unique every weekend. Then I meet these people who can't hold conversations unless its about work or getting drunk. Its like everyone is worried about being passionate about something.

So we shouldn't have only likes but we should have interests? Aren't those the same thing?

Also, what makes up a personality that isn't part of likes and interests?

I'm not disagreeing, just don't really understand what you wrote.

My family has a maxim: in order to be interesting you have to be interested.

Cultivate your sense of curiosity.

👆🏻 This.

And FYI what used to make you unique in high school most likely isn't enough as an adult. Assuming you get a job doing something you love, that thing you love won't be unique amongst your new coworkers since everyone has that same interest. You need multiple points of interest to talk about during the office holiday party.

This is very well put and I think timely.

r/iamveryinteresting

22 y/o here, I needed this. Thank you.

Thank you so much for writing this, my friend. I’m in a really rough place these days. I guess I’ve always tried to be interesting for other people, and I suppose I succeeded. I read the last 4 paragraphs over a few times and I just swelled inside. I’d never thought to find MYSELF interesting. And now I’m thinking maybe I AM too interesting to give up and throw myself away. I can’t explain how much I appreciate it. I feel more optimistic than I have in months, I know it’s a little thing but it feels big to me. So thank you.

And realize that weird or obscure things are perfectly acceptable things to learn about. Are you interested in cars? Always liked a certain style of rim? When did the style first appear? Who made it? Where were they produced and of what material? How do model years/manufacturers differ?

Or do you love New Zealand? Are you always looking for it on maps? Check out r/mapswithoutnewzealand. You can get really deep into the smallest things if you follow your curiosity.

For me, I look for lost and forgotten cemeteries. I get to use maps, decipher old handwritten land deeds, talk to people about their lives and communities, spend time outside and enjoy the thrill of discovery. I may be weird but I’m interesting. Obligatory plug for r/CemeteryPreservation.

Teacher here with a group of seniors that are getting ready to graduate. Will be passing this on to them. Thanks man.

I could not agree with this more. Throughout high-school, I was both scrutinized and admired. I was an easy target for bullying, but I was regarded as being strong of character by teachers as well as the peers who were previously indifferent to me. Because of my strength of character, I got away with so many things that your average, "blend in with the crowd" type would not even have a chance to. I was never malicious, but I worked in a way where those who helped me actually wanted to; I could always tell when someone was not interested in being helpful. I got good grades as well as the respect of my teachers by being actually interesting to talk to because I broke the teenage rule of being bland, dismissive, and rude to anyone who wasn't your cooky friend.

I never had any friends, but I had respect. I used to have severe anger issues but with the correct help, I got over them, so I became tolerable to talk to. My conversations are usually one-offs with no bond between me and the other person, but there is always something meaningful within it. I love teaching as well as being taught. I both love and hate reflecting on my past, because there are traumatic memories, however, all traumatic memories are character-building memories.

And this is why I am proud to say that at 17 years of age with several mental disorders and people telling me that I will never make it, I have graduated high school early and will be going into university before I turn 18.

This came off as really condescending.

Um no it doesn't. Maybe it's just the painful truth. :p

You’re a positive inspiration today, keep rockin’ :)

I'm an interesting person.. I Reddit

Honestly what I needed to see.

Damn that was good

This is by far my favorite answer.

I was waiting for someone to say something like this, had to scroll way too far down to see it.

I'm in my mid 20s.. at 22 I had an emotional collapse for various reasons, following this advice is one of the only reasons I recovered. I felt so uninteresting and unimportant. I had no sense of self and felt worthless.

This advice is probably the one in the thread everyone needs to read. For me it saved my life when I figured it out.

Money, Exercises. Etc. we all know about. But this one is one people need to discover

This is perfect! It took me so long to this out!

Such an awesome message. No writing has meant more to me than this in a long time.

It applies so well to mental health and general outlook in life. I'm in my late late 20s but I needed to know this now more than ever. Thanks for taking the time to write.

/r/GetMotivated

I try. I honestly do, but what I'm passionate about annoys people like nothing else, and I just feel so empty inside, just all the time. Like there's a hole in my chest. I don't know how to make myself interesting.

this was my favorite one

One of the best comments I have read on reddit so far

Thank you for this.

great, and unique, response

beautifully said. thanks.

I read this comment three times, and it inspired me countless times. Thank you.

Very well written.

See, the problem I've found (and I'm only 20, so obviously room to grow) is I'm passionate about my hobbies, but they're hobbies people don't really like.

I listen to metalcore and like cars, those two things are very polarizing to people, so I don't really know what I can do to make those interesting to others, because often I'm not given the chance to talk about them due to the preconceived views most people carry about those hobbies.

Awesome post couldn't agree more.

I'd say you do need people.

I don't always make comments , but when I do, I prefer Dos Equis.

That was poetic. Thank you, you’re interesting!

Life is just about avoiding suffering though. And forgetting that you will die, until you die. Thats the whole goal of everything in life.

"You can't be interesting...without interests".

This sounds obvious in hindsight, but I never really got that.

Well I mean I do try to be interesting. I read a lot, watch documentaries on everything & anything and travel as much as possible. I also have tons of hobbies and yet I still find myself boring. I can't hold a conversation for shit even though I do generally do the listening most of time. I honestly don't know what else to do?

"Boring people get bored."

Just finished dating someone who was "safe" but totally flat. No hobbies, no interests really, and judgemental of everyone with those things. Absolutely agree with this. Along with exercising, not settling, and making good financial decisions independent of who you're dating, this is absolutely a staple. When your personality is a shorted candle or wet towel, you're not fun to be or be around.

Because I’m young with zero life (or people) experience, I’m having a hard time picturing someone without hobbies or interests. What did they actually do all day...?

Eat, sleep, Netflix, work. Repeat. Her parents still helped her financially, so it's not like she was working two jobs to make ends meet and had no time. She just literally didn't do much of anything. Her tastes in movies, tv, and music were literally whatever was popular at the time. It was like aggressively basic bitch level lol. I guess marketing firms would consider her the ideal consumer- Someone who only does things and pays attention to things when everyone says they matter.

The thing is, I could be totally indifferent to a hobby that someone has, but it's the passion and the fact that someone has the drive to do it. Like I want someone who is reasonably independent, and people who spend all day doing nothing or only hang with their parents have little social/support net. Not reading or developing further is a sign of complacency, and if someone is doing that in their 20s, I'd consider it a red flag.

I have narrow interests. Tried other stuff, never really could get into them for the long haul. Only a couple of things really stuck and they're pretty niche and you need money to get involved in one of them anyways.

I'm doomed.

continues browsing reddit

I just discovered there was a save button for comments. Fuckkkkkkk. Saved this, thanks!

I really needed this, thanks

As far as being interesting I was told you need at least 3 hobbies. One that is low to no cost(I run), one that is social in nature(recreational sports for me and games), and one that could potentially make you money(photography and working towards a jiu jitsu black belt).

Hobbies tend to bring opportunity in the ways you'd least expect them to.

saved. this is awesome.

Just be interesting wow thanks for the advice

Sacrifice learning for earning. Not saying you have to go to college, but you need to learn a marketable skill in a career that has a future. Working as a server/bartender or other similar job for easy money is not a viable long term move. I see many 40 year old servers who look 50 and hate life.

That being said, if you can start working at a skilled or trade job before you're done with school, DO IT! Good, relevant work history will always outweigh a degree or internships

People tend to forget how much you can make without a 4 year college degree. Mechanics can make a ton of money, with a constant demand for work, and the only schooling you'll do is ASE stuff and dealership training (if you go that route). If you are willing to work, you can make 6 figures without needing a 4 year degree and tons of debt (though initial investments in tools and a cart can certainly get you close..).

There are plenty of good jobs out there that are perfectly viable for good careers that people tend to forget about because you "don't need a diploma".

Right, I'm currently making $60k+ as a mechanical designer, I only have an associates (which I just finished this past December), but I've been working in the field for about 4 years now. Unfortunately, there are some places that won't give you a second thought if you don't have a 4 year degree, but there are fantastic jobs out there that don't require a large degree.

Curious, what is a mechanical designer?

Someone who designs mechanical components, as opposed to someone who engineers them. I don't determine material used, or strength testing or anything like that, I design the part to fit the function it's called to.

Is that different than an industrial designer?

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Went to undergrad with a big engineering school. All my friends had jobs straight out of school +$60,000 per year with great future earning potential. I'll have to go on to grad or med school to earn that kind of money.

Eh, mechanics don't make that much right off the bat, and it's really hit or miss on the work available. Two guys in the same shop, one gets gravy and makes 80k, the other gets all warranty work and is barely bringing home $30k.

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I'm Kentuckian so cost of living is fairly low. And my mother is going to let me stay with her until I can afford a house, so that's a benefit. Overall I'll be fine, I'm frugal and don't live beyond my means.

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He's not a boomer but he sure acts like one. He doesn't seem to get that I don't want to live out as far as him in an expensive house that I'll never use. I want an alright house that is in a safe area and live somewhat comfortably while not killing my working. He just doesn't get it.

And no matter where I choose to go hell never be happy with it unless I live out in bfe like him. Every area is "full of raff and crime" to him. Riff Raff seems to just mean "black people", or "less than $60k a year income" to him.

That's true, but with time and equal skill/effort wouldn't that pay balance out? The more senior tech will usually get the better jobs, but eventually the new guy is no longer new.

Also, isn't work supposed to be more or less evenly distributed? As in, one guy shouldn't be getting all warranty work unless all/most of the work that day is warranty work?

Should be that way, isn't always.

That’s true if almost any place of work though. I’ve found that after awhile at a job if it’s not getting better, one can take the experience they’ve earned and find a better place. It’s a shitty life lesson, but a lesson with value about the workplace.

Unfortunately, a lot of shops show favoritism or are slow. Most techs warn the others: get out now while you still have the time to go back to school for something else. The pay is not going up proportionally with the difficulty of the work (think computer systems in modern cars). It was a decent job to get into with technical or Associates, but now, you can get an easier, better paying job with the same amount of schooling and debt.

Yeah, I figured as much. There're a lot of "should" things in life that aren't.

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That's true, you can get burned out. A mechanic I knew told me it's a job that you get out what you put in: if you want to be lazy or drink coffee all day and chat, you aren't going to get a good paycheck. But if you put your nose to the grindstone and get good at it, you can rake in the benefits and retire early. It all depends on what you want to do, and are willing to do.

That's why you have to assume that you'll be changing careers a few times. Really focus on building strong communication and interpersonal skills. These will always be the cornerstone of any job. Back it up with a slightly more technical field to start, and then once you've been in that industry for a while go get an MBA and pivot to tech or bio or something. Personally I'd recommend data science right now, but get ready to pivot towards machine ethics or something in less than a decade.

Any other suggestions of non degree jobs

Be a damn Machinist. I started when I was 18. Off the go as a machine operator I made just 10 dollars an hour. But I had overtime... And being a single, non parent I had the time to work it.

For the first 4 years of it I made an average of $35,000. I just worked and learned and made mistakes. Crashed machines and learned from it.

I'm 32 now, and this year I stand to make roughly $85,000. I did a little schooling here and there, mostly at the cost of the shop I was working at.

Today, I could quit my job and find a new one for the same pay or more before I made it home. A machinist is so in demand that I get emails about leaving my current job just based on my resume that was on monster.com 4 years ago. Even receiving a relocation bonus.

Remember the great recession? I don't. I don't even know what it feels like to worry about hours at work. Machinist has offered me the ability to raise 2 kids and let my wife be a stay at home mother. 2 car payments, mortgage, son plays all kinds of sports, Christmas isn't a burden, we can take a nice trip each year.

The demand for a machinist is insane and will only increase as the old guard continues to retire. Pick your wage and watch shop owners bid on you. It's insanely rewarding.

Blue collar work is not 2nd rate like high school counselors and colleges want you to think. A part for a turbine engine is designed once, and then made thousands of times.

Your hands will get cut up and scarred. Your clothes will smell like coolant. your brain will start to measure everything in thousandths of an inch and coffee intake will skyrocket. But taking a piece of barstock or flatstock and programming a machine and holding the final part that will be used in that aircraft or missile or car or even washing machine will be so rewarding.

Every day is a mental and physical task and you will never stop learning.

Do it.

Awesome story! Do you encounter health issues or know of potential dangers being around the machinist equipment long term

Health issues are minimal. But don't be dumb like I was as a young man... Wear safety glasses and ear plugs. I've seen grinding wheels shatter while the guy using it didn't wear safety glasses. And I have to listen to my TV on high until my wife yells at. Bonus: it's hard to hear my wife yell at me

Btw what exactly is a machinist? Like creating giant parts

The parts can range from as small as a dime to so big you need a crane to lift it. I've personally worked on parts for a windmill and armor plating for the military that required a 50 ton crane to move. But there are much larger parts out there.

Currently I make parts that can be handle loaded in machine. Mostly aerospace and medical.

Amazing, are you self employed or part of a big company, and I'm sure your team is large based on the magnitude of the projects?

I work for a fairly large company. Roughly bringing in 25 million a year between all 3 of our divisions. I've worked for bigger and smaller mom and pop shops. Starting out I would say a smaller shop is much easier to go into and learn. It's easy to figure out who knows what's they're doing and form a relationship with them. Every shop you go see will having roughly 1 guy that knows his stuff for every 5 guys that think they do. Find the guy that knows his stuff.

You'll know him because he won't talk constantly and he's always working alone. Kiss his ass, don't talk back and never yell him you understand unless you do.

I do side work out of my home workshop, but usually it's for friends that need something made for their motorcycle or boat. And generally it just nets me favors and a case of beer as income.

I have thought about starting a small shop but it's insanely difficult to find good help and deadlines are easier to meet with a crew behind you. Plus, youre never off that clock when you own a shop.

What's the hard part about good help? Loyalty, skill, reliability, ?

Loyalty in a shop is bought and shop owners are feeling that now. For the past 30 years shop owners have employed 1 or 2 machinists at a high hourly rate and maintained production by paying operators $10 to $12 an hour. Now those machinists are retiring and shop owners are left with a bunch of 20 year veteran button pushers.

Reliability is also becoming an issue now. I'm not trying to sit here and sound like the old man saying young guys don't like to work but... Young guys don't like to show up to work. I don't understand it. I have to be in the hospital to call off work but I've seen 12 guys come in this year alone and not make it 30 days because of call ins or being late.

Skill is relative. I would gladly take a greenhorn that knows nothing and is starving to learn than a guy that thinks he knows it all and won't listen.

I've been machining for about 15 years and I still don't know everything. I won't pretend to know everything. I've learned tricks from 60 year old men and 20 year old men. Because I'm open to suggestions I can tell you 5 ways to fix the same problem. But I'll still listen to how Joe Schmoe might fix it... And a lot of the time, it works.

Everyone knows everything and everyone knows nothing.

For the record, according to the Occupational Outlook Handbook, Machinists earn an average of $44,100 a year and have less than average career growth. While it’s awesome that your path worked out so well, it’s absolutely the extreme exception and not something anyone should bank on.

Piano tuner. My piano teacher always talks about how his tuner is booked so he has to schedule 3 even 5 months ahead.

Saturated market though.

Let's see, off the top of my head: plumbing is pretty good, electrician also. I'm sure there are tons more, and with these jobs the market is usually pretty steady, not to dependent on economy or place. They usually want/require some sort of trade school, but it's cheaper and quicker than a 4 year degree and you make good money.

I'd add some other general construction jobs, but I think they are a little different, as there is more competition, but if you're good at your job and honest, you'll quickly distinguish yourself from the rest.

Painting is a good one, whether auto or home. Auto is a little trickier as you'd need a shop or something, and IMO can be more difficult to get right, whereas house paint is thicker and you don't need a shop.

Almost forgot welding. If you can get good at welding, you will never be short of work. Same goes for bodywork.

If you're interested in more I'd ask around at a local community college, since many of them have some sort of experience in finding jobs that pay well without needing a 4+ year degree.

Drafting is a pretty good way to get started.

Get a certificate from a locate community college (or maybe there's on online edx course or something idk) and start applying. I started at about 40k and now make 50k a year plus benefits as an electrical draftsmen. It's not crazy fuck you money, but I'm 23 and have been on my own since I was 19.

I'm doing school part time (one more year on my bachelor's) and will eventually move on but for now I'm very happy. If I wasn't doing that I would be focusing on moving up to designer (more $$) like my co-workers but I'm planning on going a different direction.

I also get 5+ job offers every month and I'm not even looking. Learn AutoCAD and Microstation. Microstation apparently isn't taught much anymore and at least in my company knowing that has been a huge plus.

I can go more in depth of anyone cares :)

awesome, thanks! the job offers come from linkedin i guess? otherwise how do they find you?

I get em on LinkedIn and from Indeed. The resume I threw up on Indeed is like a year old but I still get offers pretty regularly.

Programming! Honestly, just take a couple of courses on udemy, go to some networking events in your area, meet people, show off your skills, then more than likely you'll get in somewhere! I would highly suggest taking courses in either mobile or web development.

I know a ton of people who've became software engineers from just this alone and no degree.

Networking is VERY important if you wanna work as a programmer without any degrees. Also, start small, very small. See if anybody you know needs something simple (i.e. you're bound to find someone who needs a website). Starting small helps you build a portfolio pretty quickly and you can freelance until you find a job at a company (or keep freelancing if that's what you prefer/what brings in more money).

Equipment operators and commercial truck drivers.

commercial truck drivers

Oh yes, I forgot about the growth industry that is driving...

Not like full automation is right around the corner or anything...

Full automation for last-mile and local delivery is years off. When truckers exit the freeway, the job becomes a lot more complex and involved.

none

To add to that airplanes could have been fully autonomous for decades and yet they’re not. I think too many people in our society have a problem with automation. Can you imagine going into a plane with no cockpit, everything is just seating?

Even if you're right, you've reduced the labor needed by a huge amount, which will push down the already low wages for those jobs even further.

Any job which doesn't require much training also doesn't have much job security, and I think it's silly for anybody to suggest people get those jobs.

you have a great point but you're needlessly rude about it

Plumber. Plumbers make more money than any other profession without a degree that I can think of.... and people ALWAYS have to shit.

Trade school. (Any)

Phlebotomy.

Dental assistant.

Mechanic

ENTREPRENEUR!!!

Yup. Am a cosmetologist by trade. Never got a four year degree. I read books about business and internet marketing. I have a small business doing wedding services now. I make as much as my college educated husband without a 40hr workweek. It’s not for everyone, but it worked for me.

Nice! I think one of the great secrets in life is finding that balance between something you are good at, enjoy, and can profit from. Sounds like you hit that balance pretty well.

I do my best. I enjoy it as much as I can. Thanks for the kind words.

Im currently a 2nd year electrician apprentice. This will help me get SO many jobs when i go and finish my Electrical engineering degree

Electricians are always in demand, and it'll be nice to have your choice of career when you graduate. I wish you luck.

Thabk you! Yeah its insane even as an apprentice!! I get like 3 calls a month from other companys asking if im being treated well/payed enough.

I work for probably the most prestigious one in town already. And though I'm making $0.50 less an hour than most of the other places, I just took off a week because of the flu and My boss came by with soup his wife made just for me to help me get better.

This is probably the best work environment I'll ever find

Dang, can I work there?

In all seriousness, a great work environment is worth way more than $.50 an hour difference, I'd say that is worth more than a 20k salary difference. A bad work environment with good pay is never worth it.

I am a rock, brick, and block mason. Am self employed and make a good living. I am in my 50s and making more money doing less because it is physically demanding work and there are very few people willing to work like that anymore. But i can take my tools and go anywhere in America and find work.

That's great! Correct me if I'm wrong, but that job seems to be more scare these days, which means more demand for you. People don't seem to take the time to get really skilled at any one thing anymore.

2 years in electronics at a community college is enough for entry level technician positions starting around 50k in manufacturing.

Not great, but it is a good start.

50k is pretty good for 2 years and little to no debt.

In Canada you need to take college and pass some regulatory exams for lots of trade fields including auto mechanic. It goes through community college that give out 2/3 year diplomas.

Not sure on the USA by I’m surprised you’d only need HS to be a car mechanic.

There are trade schools out there, but you don't need a degree to work as a mechanic. If you work for a dealer, they will most likely start you out as a "lube tech", changing oil and doing other menial tasks. Then they will usually have you shadow another mechanic for a while, learning what they are doing, how they do it, etc. The dealer will want ASE certification before you move further than that, and most private shops won't let you do more than change oil or tires without ASE certification: it's a pretty rigorous training/testing that makes sure you know what you're doing, and getting insurance without it is difficult and expensive. The dealer may send you off to dealer training, usually for new system like a new electronics system training. Eventually they will give you your own stall, but you can always ask for assistance from the other mechanics if you can't seem to get something.

So, to more directly answer your question, you do not necessarily need any formal training, but if you don't get ASE certification, good luck finding someone that will hire you.

At least, that's what I recall on the subject, I could be missing something, but I don't think so.

Hello there, I'm planning to go to Canada to earn a 2-3 year postgraduate qualification. I haven't decided on which one yet since I'm still honing my English skill. I'm currently working as an accountant and I have an accounting banchelor degree in my country, but I'm willing to do other jobs. Could you give me an advice on what jobs are easy to land on Canada and the requirements of these jobs for a woman? I'm quite good at computer-related stuff in general, I think.

Well in general there are no different gender requirements in Canada for white collar jobs.

The only time gender might come into play would be physical jobs that have minimum requirements for lifting eg 50/100lbs etc.

Banking jobs are plentiful and fairly easy to get into with a few financial courses. Accounting is possible but you may need to do more courses and pass the Canadian exams.

There’s always sales jobs around. There are usually IT jobs in the major Canadian cities at the larger corporations.

Thank you. I'm definitely going to look into banking jobs.

That is what I love about Germany. We have a great education system for non-college jobs. Here every field of work has a proper training. You work in a company and get a training in the company similar to the training you would get in other countries, but including a few things that may not be necessary for this company but others in the field of work. Meanwhile you also go to a school (part time) and get a formal education speciallized to your field of work. After 2 or 3 years you get a degree and if you were good the company usually keeps you and you get a raise. If you have to switch companies you have a formal degree that is accepted all over Germany and respected in various countries worldwide.

It offers a great opportunity to get an education while earning money and great for people who are more skilled in more practical ways.

The US has similar systems, though many of them are private institutions. We have community colleges, which are government funded, and offer a wide variety of courses, for people wanting to fill some required credits for a 4 year university degree, to people who are learning for fun, to those that want a non-college job.

Trade schools are generally private, but you get good training and a respected degree in your field, and you get a lot of hands-on training without needing a to go to a 4 year college.

We have community colleges aswell, but they are more for people who want to learn for fun or want to learn languages. I think it is not possible to get credits for a college degree here.

I guess trade schools have a tuition and are not normally visited parallel to a training directly at a company.

The best point of the system is the dual character and that the education is completely free since the company pays for the school.

And the system is widely used here. Every company with more than 5 or 10 employees has someone in „Ausblidung“ and there are only few jobs that are done without one. You can get a „Ausbildung“ as a waiter, cook, secretary, book sales men, mechanic, facility manager, electrician, plumber, construction worker...

Most companies also have a few employees in who are not in a „Ausbildung“, especially for part time jobs, but the system offers a degree and therefore job security for every job imaginable.

That's cool, we have something similar for limited fields, like a dealership will pay for your schooling if you want to advance and they are willing to make the investment.

We don't have something for all trades like you said, it's mostly limited to skilled labor.

This is one of the things I realized the most in high school graduating and in my earlier 20's.

Isn't that job being endangered by robots and the internet? Both sales and actual mechanics?

Not that I know of: the assembly line, sure, they have more robots than they used to and pretty soon it may all be automated. However, the internet has done nothing if not help mechanics, so it's easier to find solutions to problems. People will still take their vehicles to the dealership/private shop, no matter if it's an oil change or a new engine. And there is no way you can make a robot be able to change an oil filter on a 20 year old honda then turn around and clean replace the spark plugs on a newer dodge (ok, you might be able to, but you get my point: there's no reason to waste the time and effort involved to make a robot that can fix every single problem on every car that rolls into a shop). Because mechanics are versatile, they will never be pushed out of a job by robots or technology.

Well, the internet I mean more in terms of sales. You mentioned that. Thanks for the response, that makes sense. But wouldn't there be less mechanics as cars get better at self-diagnosis, and the most common issues are fixed by machinery? I don't know, you're probably right. I don't know all that much about mechanics.

self diagnosis is only helpful to the mechanic. Right now, you generally need very expensive hardware AND expensive, annual software updates to access the information from the ECU. Then the mechanic can begin to find the source of the problem, it's not as simple as replacing parts. Say, for instance, the ECU is throwing a code for an engine control sensor. the mechanic replaces the sensor, and clears the code. a week later the same code pops up. the mechanic pokes around, finds that a fuse is damaged or a wire is crossed and the sensor is getting too much current and burning out.

Besides, as someone who works on cars for a hobby (old cars), new cars are so compact and frustrating to deal with, even I would take it to a shop if it wasn't something menial. The tools and diagnostic equipment helps the mechanic find the problem and replace the parts, be there are no robots or machinery that fix cars that I know of, that's only on an assembly line. So basically there isn't any threat to mechanics, only complacency.

What's an ECU? Also, while I have a mechanic on the other end, are those rumors of scamming people who clearly don't know cars (like me) true? I know it happens occasionally, but my aunt is always raving at mechanics for being scum-of-the-earth. I doubt that's true, but how accurate is that?

Sorry, I got into car-talk. the ECU is the computer brain that runs everything in the car, it makes sure the engine runs correctly with the correct air-fuel ratio, runs all of the sensors, etc.

It is a real thing for some shops to do that, it's sad but it does happen. If someone comes in and says they need an oil change, a tech can go do the oil change then "find" that they need their brakes flushed or coolant flushed, and may even tell them that their coolant is the "wrong color, and that it needs to be changed". The customer doesn't know anything otherwise, and they certainly don't want to skip maintenance on their car and risk it getting damaged, so they will accept the extra services. Often times the tech won't even touch the other items, they'll just do the oil, but charge the customer for all of it, since they know the customer won't double check it.

That's why I tell people avoid chain shops for anything more than an oil change. If they tell you you need an extra service, make a note of it but decline. Then, the next time you need actual service (check engine light, alignment, brakes) take the car to a proper, established shop that has a good reputation and they will usually do a free inspection, maybe charge if it's a more thorough inspection. They will be much more honest, as they have a good reputation and the techs have usually been there for a while, so they know what they are doing. The problem with chain shops (the "express lube" type places) is that the people working there aren't very experienced, and there is generally higher turnover of employees. So, it's easy enough for someone to get a job there and get money off of you without much oversight. An actual shop has ASE certified mechanics, who are going to not only know more about what they are doing, but also because it is their career and not a job, they have incentive to not only be honest with you, but also make sure their work is good and safe.

My advice is to find a good local mechanic and have them do all the work on your car except for oil changes, since that can be done at a "lube shop". Your mechanic will be glad to have repeat business, and may cut your bill from time to time for being a good customer, and he will be honest with you about the state of your vehicle.

Also, mechanics are like doctors, in that they know when you don't tell them what happened (like when you tell your doctor you definitely stuck to your diet). It's cheaper and better to be as upfront as possible so they know what to look for and fix.

As a final note, there are probably more ignorant customers than bad mechanics (I mean ignorant in that they will refuse service when they desperately need it, because their "cousin or brother" told them they don't need it; I do not mean your aunt is ignorant, I just couldn't think of another word to describe that particular case of customer, and often it is because of bad mechanics that these people exist). They will refuse to get new brakes when their brakes are long past being considered "unsafe" because they believe the mechanic is trying to swindle them. If you go over to /r/justrolledintotheshop, one of the staple posts on that sup is of very dangerous, long broken parts still on vehicles because the customer refuses to get them fixed. My advice if you feel like you are being scammed: make a not of it and get a second opinion, from a different shop. If you are being scammed, make a review online so others will be warned: poor reviews nowadays are quite dangerous for shops, so they will try to avoid hiring bad mechanics as much as possible.

Thank you. You took a quite a few minutes out of your day.

I just like sharing information I have, I hate for people to be taken advantage of when I know otherwise.

Wait... what mechanic is making 6 figures? Where I live they make maybe 15k a year tops.

Working in a dealership, yes. If they only work 9-5 and do average work they won't, but if they get good at fixing cars and stay late, pick up shifts etc. it's entirely possible to get a good paycheck. The difference between dealership and a private shop is that a dealership generally has a stronger workload, so it's rare to not be busy, whereas a private shop is limited by overhead and business.

Just an FYI electric cars are going to need a lot fewer mechanics...

I don't think so. Electronics, like everything else, need maintenance. You'll see a lot more mechanics dealing with sensors, wires, etc. than they are now, but it's not going to create a problem in the industry.

Even though electric motors don't require much maintenance, the suspension, steering, tires, lights,sensors, wires, AC/Heat, etc. will still need work. I don't think there will be a noticeable break in work when most cars on the road start being fully electric.

And lest we not forget, changing out the batteries every few years is going to be equivalent to changing motors.

This isn't mathematically true. It's a nice thing to think for sure, but every additional year in schooling is associated with an 11% increase in lifetime income, while an additional year of work experience is only associated with a roughly 6% increase in lifetime income. That schooling includes trade school if that's what you're going for, but you're not right about the math there.

Source: Mastering 'Metrics by John Angrist and Pischke.

For those wondering about source picking/ reliability: I'm finishing my Masters in Economics right now and Angrist & Pischke are some of the most well-known authors on this topic.

Edit: Joshua Angrist and Jörn-Steffen Pischke.

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Lifetime Earnings not disposable income

Also, when you consider the ability to compound that 11 vs 6 percent, and the ability for more upward mobility career wise, you're still behind with less education.

That's why I think college is the way to go for many people, the upward mobility careerwise. I know there are people working jobs that don't require degrees earning $80,000 but I don't think in 20 years they will have doubled that salary (not that there are not exceptions like programming and owning your own business).

I would want to ready the study that came to that conclusion, because that seems wrong.

There are two studies in the book I cited to you. Chapter Six, titled The Wages of Schooling. It even goes into twin studies regarding the subject to add external validity, and control for biases in each person's ability.

I guess I’m more concerned with how easily skewed it could be by C-level execs.

The thing is though, skewed by C-level execs or not, the data is still valid for all involved, for every C level exec, how many people are there that have graduated university and failed miserably to get on their feet? Just something to think about.

Dropped out of school this semester to apprentice at machining boat shafts. I've never been happier. When I was in school I just wanted to kill myself the stress of homework and studying was way too much. I don't understand how everyone thinks your a failure these days if you don't have college...

I've noticed a shift in people's opinions regarding college in recent years. When I was a kid and in my teens people were extremely keen on college and shamed non-college grads. This is because colleges charged fair prices and gave you an education that holds value. Now, people are changing their minds. The ROI is not there anymore. They kept raising tuition, the cost of books and using un-ethical practices to keep kids in college longer for a four year degree. Its really not hard to see that they care more about money than an education. I believe the bubble is bursting now and colleges will need to change for the better to boost their enrollments once they bottom out.

Good, relevant work history will always outweigh a degree or internships

That doesn't mean you shouldn't take an internship if you can. Especially if it is relevant to your industry. I've had two internships both very relevant to my career field and I consider them invaluable to my marketability in the job sector.

Edit: if you do get an internship take full advantage of it. Lots of people consider them just college credit or pocket money if it's paid. If you treat it like a "real job" you will be surprised how much more meaningful the experience will become.

Absolutely! I'm about to finish mine. With the skills I've acquired in almost unrecognizable from who I was a year ago. Not to mention the connections I've made as well.

I know the feeling. Before I started my first internship around 3 years ago I had no idea what I was doing. Now I'm confident I can take on anything a company throws at me (within reason of course).

Plus, my resume would be lacking severely in substance and I wouldn't have all the awesome references I do.

The money has been nice too lol

It is better to have work experience than a degree or certifications during the hiring process. (because they know you can do the job, and because hiring someone without paper credentials is much much cheaper as they can justify lowballing your pay)

Once hired, it is better to have the degree or certifications because without them your pay ceiling is much lower.

As markets become more and more saturated, experience and credentials and age all become liabilities - the younger and cheaper you are, the better your prospects.

I make ~50k/yr at 20 doing carpentry/electrical/plumbing, basically anything to do with building houses. I came in with no real experience other than knowing how to use power tools. Keep in mind this is my starting wage.

This kind of experience will always be able to land me a job, I dropped out of college trying to be a mechanical engineer. Just not for me.

It definitely will not always outweigh a degree. In a lot of fields a degree is required.

This is of course a very specific anecdote, but there’s a manager at my company who has 30+ years experience at this company and his manager was trying to promote him to the next level and couldn’t because he didn’t have a degree. I think it’s silly, but it does happen.

There are certainly fields where training is good enough, but doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, etc. will always need a degree if they want to find work.

I worked construction from 17 to 27. Made way more than i should have as a drop out with his GED. At 27 I realized i could run my own company one day. Took business classes and am 10x more prepared to make that move now.

I'm a little confused why work experience "outweighs" an internship, when an internship (in my experience) has been work experience in a field relevant to my field of study and future career path? What type of internships are you talking about that aren't work experience or related to your future line of work?

This is a ridiculous take on internships

I'm doing both electrical and plumbing right now.

Self taught, skilled, and certified programmers make BANK. Licensed electricians, welders, and plumbers also make a very good and steady wage. College isn’t for everyone but that doesn’t mean you can’t earn as much as a college grad.

I'd like to provide a counterpoint. Perhaps it's unique to computer science or engineering related work, but people really care about your degree.

I endorse this 100%. I was offered a job that kickstarted my career while partway through college. I ended up determining that my time was better spent becoming an expert in my field than going into debt for a probably irrelevant piece of paper. I have no regrets on that decision.

On the flip side of this, going to university and racking up huge student loans without any idea of what you want to do or if your degree will actually lead to a job at the end of it.

I came out of uni with over $60K of debt and a qualification in a very small, badly paid, wildly competitive industry that I never ended up working in. My career now is great but has nothing to do with my degree and I won’t be finished with my student debt for another 4 years.

If you don't mind me asking this, but what'd you go for and what do you do now?

I have a Bachelor of Biomedical Science in Human Genetics. Sounds like it would get you a job, right? Unfortunately universities in NZ turn out hundreds of BBMedSci graduates a year, and if you don’t go on to PhD study you’re competing for a few jobs in what is a very, very small industry here. A bachelor’s degree only qualifies you for low level lab tech work. You’re up against people who completed honours and masters degrees for said low level lab tech work, and the pay is usually under $45K p.a. (all figures in NZD).

I got a job straight out of uni in a call centre for a bank as a temporary thing for around the same pay. I’be now worked in banking for 7 years. I’ve had a few jobs within the organisation to do with mortgage lending and then credit risk assessment, and now I’ve been working as a business analyst for the last few months, which I really enjoy.

While I don’t regret my degree as such, I love genetics and science is my passion, it wasn’t worth the $60K to pursue. If I’d really understood what the job prospects coming out of it were, I never would have done it.

But don’t you think that bank weighed the fact that you have a degree, albeit in something unrelated, when hiring you? If anything it shows you know how to think to a high level, perform complex tasks, and essentially meet very real deadlines. You certainly are more qualified, at least in my eyes, than somebody who only has a high school degree.

You’re right, I think that would have factored into a couple of hiring decisions along the way; but in saying that if I had worked in the business for an additional 4 and a half years that I spent studying, that could have performed the same function, and I would have been earning money instead of getting debt. I also wasn’t a high school graduate before I entered uni, 6 months of those years was spent gaining a uni-entry qualification, something which I think is similar to a US GED. Who knows, if I hadn’t gone to uni maybe I never would have ended up in banking and worked in hospo. You never know how things are going to go. It’s a big commitment to make getting into a degree so I think it’s essential to make sure you know what it entails and have realistic expectations about what it’s going to lead to coming out of it.

Oh it’s a huge commitment, especially for those who put themselves in huge amount of debts. However, in your case I believe it was worth it. I think it put you in the room at the bank, and otherwise, you might not have been able get in the room to earn a place to get experience. Now you’re a pretty well rounded employee I think, not all experience, not all education, a few years of each and you’re golden!

You’re so lovely! Thanks :)

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Answered above :)

I think there is a balance. My sister is a server in a mountain city and she loves it. The job, while not glamorous, allows her to live the life style she loves. Skiing 3 days a week during winter and hiking during summer. I have a college degree and make more than her and I know for a fact that she is happier than me.

Yeah I really hate the attitude on reddit that if you have to be conventionally successful to not be miserable in life. I mean if we tell each other we should be miserable in x or y position it's probably going to make people in x or y position miserable...

My grand dad is a cop. Barely scraps by sometimes, lives in a little home. He's very content and at peace. He loves his life, and his job. I think the key is to find a job that let's you live the life you love, accounting for how much time it takes up, and how much money you need

What backwater does he live in? Most cops are very well paid.

That outlook you have is your own interpretation. Being conventionally successful just maximizes utility, while not being successful does not imply being miserable.

I waited tables in a ski town a few years in my early 20s and then got the degree job. Many years later I don't regret the degree job route.

Edit to clarify - I do recommend taking time off school when you are young to go work a ski town job or similar life experience.

but will she be happy in 10 years? she may make enough to get by but if she decides she wants to own a home or start a family down the line that wont cut it

Seeing as she has been doing it for 8 years already and still loving it, along with having my niece last year, I would say she is doing fine. Success isn't measured by the stuff you own, but by the experiences you have IMO and those are all subjective.

I'm curious what state she lives in? Where I'm from it be tough to find a serving job that can cover rent, daycare, food, insurance, etc ... never mind having anything left over to save for the future.

California. She might change her mind in the future, and I do not regret my decision to get a college degree, but she didn't get one and she is pretty happy. I know I am working on moving out of this state.

Servers in California can easily make $1k a week in tips (untaxed) at nice restaurants. That's the same as entry level engineer pay. I know because I was one, and have many friends who do the same. You can afford a lot with that money, especially if she gets married to someone who makes a similar salary.

This type of advice is for people in the long run for financial stability.

Don’t get lost in the sauce. Your sister is probably living a great life and is very content. But let’s say she loses her job in the area, falls ill, gets injured skiing, or tourism in the area dies down. What does she do now? Is she saving enough money for those kinds of situations while also living her desired lifestyle? These are the trade offs she’s making consciously, and just because she’s okay with her single lifestyle doesn’t mean it’s sustainable at different stages of life.

Don’t take this the wrong way but that’s what happens if you use anecdote to rebuttal general and sound financial advice.

Wasn’t really using it as a rebuttal and more of alternate view on the “traditional” career path. I am a huge advocate for higher education and in the processs of pursing a masters. However, I also understand that college isn’t for everyone. Maybe my sister is an exception to this rule. She is better at managing her finances than I am I guess.

It becomes a trap, too. As you work your way up you can easily make like 50-60k serving tables or bartending if you get in at upscale popular places, more I'm sure in higher cost of living areas. That's great money when you're in your 20's and early 30's, and you imagine giving that up to go back to school, it just doesn't add up.

But then you're not putting anything away, don't have insurance, you look next to you and see that 50-something co-worker bitching about his feet hurting and you're like "ohfuck."

I can vouch for this. Only 26 but I work with many people older than me who seem unhappy. Also, I'm already getting to the point of being sick of it, and feeling the effects physically...it wears on you. It's also harder to get out the longer you stay in, you get used to the money and build your life around that, then when you want to try something else the only skills you have don't get you a job that pays enough to keep up with your lifestyle and existing bills.

I'm a 23 year old bartender and I'm scared

26 year old server who just moved across the country. Restaurants are fighting to higher me, other jobs won't even call me for an interview

I moved from serving to a 9-5 and hate it. I miss the fast paced atmosphere and fun personalities. Part of me wants to go back to the restaurant industry. Do you think you'll stay?

I can't imagine doing this forever. But every time I go to look for something else it nothing seems to make the cut. I have some other skills I'm working on developing more and I think sometime soon I'll just have to bite the bullet, start where I can, and work my way up.

You can always just serve on weekends

This is another problem I've found, but perseverance I guess?

Some people don't mind doing it, but eventually the schedule and lifestyle gets old. The one good thing is that shifts generally arent 8 hours, which gives you more time to do other things. My advice to you would be figure out what you're good at and what direction you want to go and use that extra time to develop your skills. That might mean going to school, or teaching yourself and building a portfolio for whatever it is.

I now work at a poolside bar that opens at 11 and doesnt close until sunset

I have no time to do anything else

I'll probably do it for the summer and then go get a less demanding job

I've managed to snag a job at a place that opens at 11 and closes at 9 most nights and 10 on weekends. I talked them into a mon-fri schedule after a while and only work 1 or 2 doubles a week. As far a restaurant jobs go, I've got it made. But the time they close made a huge difference in my life and a somewhat set schedule has given me the freedom to do more with my time off. I'm very lucky.

I work in the bar industry and I can tell you that bartenders literally can make a lifetimes work off bartending. They make excellent day time bartenders in their older years and have the patience, wisdom, and knowledge that bartemders need when people want to talk about their life, their regrets, or their dilemmas. My bar manager and midshift bartender are in their 50s. What you probably meant is that you cannot always be a bikini bar girl. 😂

Who’s to say the service industry isn’t a marketable future?

I started working in food service when I was 14. It took time to get experience but eventually moved up to fine dining, making $50K+ a year, and now as a manager Im opening a restaurant for a well known chef.

I mean, I’m no Jeff Bezos, but I’m on my way to one day owning my own restaurant. To me that would be success and actualization. If you have the hunger to do better you can be successful in any career.

Food Service is a ”trade” and it’s one I could take almost anywhere and have a job within a day or two making cash and putting food in my stomach.

What percentage of servers actually have your entrepreneurial spirit/drive and dream about owning their own restaurant though? The trade is definitely ubiquitous, but many food service workers aren't making a living wage and the ladder to management and owning a business is uber competitive. I think the point is geared toward those who just sort of plop into serving (several of my college friends) as a short term solution to needing money that has little long term value outside of that exact trade.

The service industry is actually very profitable. I know servers making $4k a month in tips alone, and bartenders making more. They also have full benefits. It makes some of my 9-5 friends question their lives entirely.

Not to mention in this industry I can’t tell you how many times I find myself working next to someone saddled with 5 figures of student loan debt making the same money as me while holding a degree in “business” or “education”

Not that those aren’t respectable fields. I just don’t necessarily think school is the only or even best route anymore. In this age,in this economy, work experience and motivated ethic are far more valuable and marketable

You likely put more effort in that most.

A common attitude is minimum effort for minimum wage.

I am willing to bet your views on work are not nearly that shitty.

Wow, this is so relevant to me right now. I'm currently in a restaurant and just got promoted to server. At the same time, I've been offered a job as a credit analyst at a big bank. Neither is what I want to do with my life, but I already have a lot of experience with credit from previous jobs and this one is a fast track to loan officer. I'm torn on what I should do. I fought so hard for that server position and now a job that usually doesn't go to 25 year olds without a 4 year degree just fell into my lap. I'm torn since my boss fought hard for me to have that position, too. I hate letting others down.

the service industry is very flexible.

If you told them "I can only work friday and saturday nights" I'm sure they'll survive.

Work all week for the big bank, serve friday and saturday for play money, sleep on a wad of cash sunday.

when you find yourself with too much money and stress, drop serving and enjoy weekends again

Be careful with your choice. I moved from serving to a 9-5 and hate it. Once you get used to the fast atmosphere and fun personalities its hard to go to a boring place. Be especially wary if your position requires being strapped to a cubicle for a 40+ hours a week. greenflame239 is right when he says the service industry is flexible. If you've been a server for a year and your manager's know you show up on time and do things right, they're likely to let you work whatever schedule you want. It happened for me.

i have a friend who is in her early 40s. she is a loan officer at a credit union as her 9-5 and then works retail 20 hours a week to put her kid through college. you could always hang on to the server job part time until you decide if you like the bank job. if your boss cares about you then they will understand your choice.

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I was an art major with this exact attitude. after graduating I realized that I'd have to work way more hours and harder doing photography to make the same amount of money as just an average 40 hours boring desk job and also that I wouldn't enjoy the photography as much if I had to it for a living.. I think if you look into all the different types of jobs instead of just assuming they're homogenous boring desk jobs, you may find that some of them are pretty mentally stimulating and even fun. Plus you can always do art on the weekends and evenings and you won't have to worry about money as much. One of my regrets is that I didn't just do a more serious major the first time around instead of the second time and starting my career at like 30 instead of 22.

Not only could you potentially not be making money, youll probably find yourself in the negative. Thats no good way to start out. Im pretty sure the rule of thumb was to not take out any more in loans as would be your starting yearly salary upon graduating. I myself looked into photography degrees and certificate programs in 08, but the uncertainty never sat well with me and I didnt do it.

Thank you for this. I always feel like I'm kind of wasting time because I could be making about twice as much if I wasn't in school. But I know making 1.5k a month now and not going to school will mean I make that forever. (Obviously a hyperbole) or I could make $800 now A month and hopefully make wayyyyy more in the future. It sucks for right now but I'm pushing through.

I agree for the most part, but I see/know a decent amount of people who love working in service/food/drink.

Of course, there are plenty of people who hate their lives, working in service so long. But some people love it. They thrive off of it. And for every service job i’ve hated, Ive had ones that I loved. Service is weird.

It really depends on the person. You can drop out of school and end up with an amazing job because you can still be smart without a high end education. Also if a person enjoys bartending etc shouldn't it be up to them what they want to do as long as they are happy? I'm studying at university and I'm in my 2nd year and because of what I'm learning I'm not sure I will be able to get a career related to what I'm studying for because it is so well sort after and you need to have connections in your field of expertise or at least 5 years prior experience.

Your degree, no matter what it is, will show employers that you have the drive, dedication, ability to meet deadlines, raw intelligence, and altogether capability to perform the job they want of you. You’ll outperform the high school grads, but that doesn’t mean it’ll be easy, you still have to compete like everybody else.

It's hard to stop serving when I make $35-50/hr depending on the night. I mean, yea I totally get that this isn't a long time career. But it's paid for 5 years of travel and a decently padded bank account.

I used to think about this a lot at my first job which was Sam's Club. When I started, there was all this talk about career progression and how you can make money. At 18 I totally believed that I could work at a Walmart store forever, I mean some people were like 50+ working the cash register. But I quickly learned that it's not a career. They struggled at that age to work the hours and make ends meet. I see the same people now working two seasonal jobs and constantly looking for work. I feel terrible for them because it's too late to reasonably change their path and acquire new skills. Retirement is likely non-existent, and they're stuck in this loop of crap jobs and 16 hour days. What's worse is people in my age group didn't see the writing on the walls and they're just beginning their cycle of part time work that they'll have to trudge through for the next 40+ years.

I went to community college for 2 years right out of high school, then I decided to try out earning instead of going to get my bachelor's degree... I'm going back to school this fall for my bachelor's and now I have 3 years of experience under my belt... I don't regret working instead of continuing school because that allowed me to learn about the real world and pay off my student loans from the community college, but I'm not happy where my life is going right now, so I'm making sure that changes...

I did this. It was hard to turn my life around and get out of that industry. I now do accounting for a fortune 500. It's a hard road but can be done (with a little luck I might add) but yeah, don't quit school for money.

I'm a 35 yr old bartender and I love life. It's not for everyone but you can make a career out of it. You just need to remember to save the cash and not drink it!

This is what im doing now, doing computer science, trying my ass off to make a decent life for myself

However, even a degree with something not very marketable still opens up a lot of potential job opportunities. All kinds of management positions or public jobs require just literally any bachelor's degree. I myself have a degree in polisci, and though it's given me a lot of debt and I have a crappy job, I'm not 100% sure I regret going. Depending on how my life goes, I may use it as basically a pre-law degree and go to law school, or attempt to get a master's, run for office, or something like that. Haven't really decided at this point in time.

Fucking this.

A friend of mine majored in history and nothing but. He is having difficulty finding a job and was told to "get something useful" when talking to a temp agency at one point.

To any humanities majors in college reading this and adding it to the pile of things you've read about how difficult things are out there after graduation, I want to toss out a different perspective.

I majored in creative writing. After graduation, I went on to teach English in a handful of countries around the world and save a fair chunk of money. Next year, I'll return to the US and teach, which is certainly not a well-compensated job, but is one I know will be satisfying.

My best friend from the program who graduated with me joined Americorp for a year, which led to a job working for a community organizer, which led to graduate school for social work, and now a good job as a counselor. Another friend did a masters in speech pathology and is now a speech pathologist. I know of a lot of people who went on to be teachers. One person, a software engineer randomly.

The only person I know who is still serving tables is a guy who I remember being a generally lazy and mediocre student. I don't know what's led him down the path he's on, but my guess would be it wasn't his choice of degree that was the problem.

In the long run, your undergraduate degree will be seen by employers and even graduate programs more as proof of your ability to commit to and finish a difficult project than as proof of your knowledge of a subject area. You probably won't end up working in the field you studied, unless you go into teaching, but you will still have access to a lot of opportunities that you wouldn't have had access to without your degree, including many that will develop the type of marketable skills OP is talking about. Whether you choose to pursue those is on you.

Well he wanted to be a teacher, but after 2 years he gave up because he didn't like seeing how awful students were treated by everyone.

Also one student stabbed in the leg. School blamed him.

Perfect example: friend of mine figured he'd become a car salesman but luckily realized that working in a cell phone store could lead to working for a cell phone company if he played his cards right. And it did. He has an awesome career now.

I'm a server and can't think of anything I would like to do. What the hell do I do? I'm not the type who can get through college. Don't know what marketable skill to try to even learn. My desires in life change every month. I'm so scared I'll never find a way to make more.

The problem is that some people make money off tips and think this is normal. If you stop tipping the service industry will be more professional, allowing workers to work on their skills and not be bailed out by free money (tips).

That's because workers are treated like shit. Severs, bartenders, they're necessary jobs. Yet posts like this prove society looks down on them. I can't imagine have such an elitist view of the world.

I disagree. neither of my parents went to college and make 200k+ combined a year

Too bad they didn't pass on their reading comprehension skills to you.

then they almost certainly have learned marketable skills, and are exactly what that guy was talking about

oh wait yeah. REEEREReERR

20s are a Minefield everything you do determines a large chunk of your future.I'd say the most careful with drugs and relationships, in my 33 years those two things have been the most damaging and life/dream-threatening

Just my .02

I fucking hate this

Why the fuck do I have to make all those life altering decisions without the necessary knowledge and experience to do the right ones? :(

Nah, see that "doom and gloom" comment about everything you do determining a "large" chunk of your future is too black and white, it's said with the fogging vision of confirmation bias. Here, I'll make some similar generalisations that are just as true:

Everyone is a dickhead and fucks up in their 20s It's rare to fuck up badly enough to skew your life completely off course There are plenty of people that change direction in their 30s, 40s and 50s and find great success

Seriously, the level of pessimism in this thread is atrocious. It's your 20s ffs, get out there and see what life has to offer, figure out what you like to do and, equally importantly, what you can't stand. Have a modicum of sense about it and you'll come out the other end just fine.

I think this is by far a better way to look at things, thanks!

That all said, don't forget to go to the dentist! I made that mistake.

Its never really good to blindly listen to anything anywhere including reddit. Look at the horrific advice in this thread Or this sub in general. Look at the advice in relationships or TwoXChromosomes. Its REALLY bad.

When my grandfather was a teen he joined a gang, shortly afterwards he went to jail for being a conspirator to murder. Someone killed someone else and he wouldn't narc, was charged and sentenced to 20 years. For his loyalty the gang made him the legitimate face of their organization, he was given ownership of a couple of clubs that were used as drug selling locations.

Then something unexpected happened. The clubs were successful and he was amazing at it. So under his name they opened more clubs. 7 in total including the largest gay club in the city, during the 80s no less. The gang stopped doing a lot of the more violent stuff now that they were making so much money on the club business. Still did a lot of illegal stuff, but the only real violence was to keep other gangs away.

Meanwhile my grandfather became hugely popular. Friends with cops, socialites, local celebrities. In his forties he met my grandmother, retired and opened a lawn care business to go real legit, had my aunt, and was just the most amazing and nicest person you would ever meet. When he died there was so much traffic they had to call in extra cops to handle all the cars in the procession. He said seeing his grandchildren grow up was the happiest time in his life. He wasn't my biological grandfather, but he loved all of his grandchildren with all of his heart and I rarely ever tell people he's my step grandfather.

So yeah, it's possible to really fuck up when your young and bounce back.

Don't do intravenous drugs or ecstasy (or other drugs that severely fuck with your mind). For everything else, use common sense and doing worry too much

Reddit loves to spew negativity. There’s some good advice in this thread, but you’re absolutely right. Making a few mistakes in your 20’s is a natural part of life. Just make sure to learn from them.

Exactly. The main way you'll learn is by making these mistakes yourself. Someone online telling you what mistakes to avoid isn't going to make you change anything, and, most likely, the reason those people are saying to avoid those mistakes is because they themselves have made them, and subsequently learned from them.

I've been on this site for 4 years, and I am most certainly a more bitter and negative person at least partly because of it.

I feel the same way, this site is such cancer and I've only been on for a few years. I stayed away because I thought reddit was dumb but then you get addicted and then it slowly chips away at your soul in a way other social media sites don't do, I fucking hate this place.

That's it, this comment is the one that's making me get off this godless site, Reddit has honestly been harder to quit than fucking cigarettes

Social media can easily be addictive, and psychological addiction is a very real thing. Staying mindful of your use on the reddit is a step in the right direction instead of quitting cold turkey.

That's because this thread is about what mistakes you can make in your 20s. If op asked for "what can you do right" then the responses wouldn't be as negative.

It's simply true, there are a lot of ways you can fuck up your life in your 20s, but moreso than later ages because experience hasn't taught you otherwise yet.

Sure but it's important to put the advice in perspective, it's almost being presented as a surety

fucking thank you i was getting depressed reading theese comments

I'm 41 and I agree wholeheartedly. You can make mistakes. You can rebound from those mistakes if you have the right attitude and desire to correct, fix, repair, or alter your course. Life is fluid and organic. If you fear failure you will attract it or conversely repel it but at an extreme cost. Living without fault, living in fear of major fuckups, is not how you live a life You make mistakes and learn. Otherwise you're living of someone else's experiences and wisdom, not your own.

TLDR I love everything you said.

Thank you. I was about to go to bed feeling pretty shite after a short scroll of this thread but this was exactly what I needed to read

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Im the one who posted what people are calling doom and gloom, in your case quitting the university isn't necessarily a bad move I think personally that it would be a worse move to be locked into a profession that you hate for the rest of your life. I was really just talking about being careful with the more dangerous things because they don't seem as dangerous at the time.

It'll work out. I knew I didn't want a career in my field of study too, but felt so invested, like it would be a waste to quit.

Then I dropped out anyway, after 4 years of college. That was a year ago and I'm in exactly the place I wanted now. I just made a plan and took a chance and it went for the best.

Doesn't mean that everything will go perfectly for you, but dropping out of college isn't always a bad decision. For a lot of people, myself included, it's a difficult choice but ultimately for the best.

The answer is somewhere in the middle.

You CAN seriously fuck up your life in your 20s, but as long as your fuckups are manageable you’ll still be ok.

Just don’t get addicted to heroin, or end up in prison. You get the idea.

But also make sure you live life and enjoy it. Get out there and experience things.

P.S. It’s important to realize that you’re also building your basis for your 30 and 40s when you have to make long term decisions. Spending years traveling is fun but you don’t ‘find yourself’ by being anywhere, you find yourself by living, wherever you are in that moment.

Agree with the general feel of your comment but "middle" might be a bit too far to one side. One one side there's the parent comment that comes across as "be careful because anything you do has the potential to start off a butterfly effect scenario that you cannot possibly predict", what I'm proposing isn't a devil may care, no holds barred life with no consequences, I'm saying don't be afraid to try things and make mistakes but do it with some sense (to your point, avoid heroin and jail time)

I agree,i shouldve balanced my answer a bit but i had no idea anyone would even really see it,much less it blow up like this. To clarify a little, all I'm saying is that some decisions will stick with you so pay close attention to what decisions you take lightly and which ones you don't. To be honest 95% of my mistakes I don't regret because it made me what I am, but that 5% affected my life harder than the 95 and probably could have been avoided if someone had told me and I listened.

Travel,discover yourself,enjoy your money being YOURS. Live free and have a blast push things to the Limit just make informed decisions is all I'm saying

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Absolutely, there are things to look out for, that's why I said you've got to go through life with some sense. There's a general implication in these comments that you are never allowed to make a mistake which is a terrifying (and paralysing) thought for people in their 20s.

I made quite a few dumb decisions in my 20s and came out just fine.

Yes, I also had friends that didn't, the world isn't black and white. Again, in my experience (and I'll concede everyone's life and pressures are different) those kinds of things tend to be the exception, not the rule.

This is the right response, people don’t need to and shouldn’t be expected to figure out their lives in their 20s. It’s roughly the first quarter of life, a time for experimentation. On another post recently it was said to not get caught up in other people’s timelines of success. If people want to go through school then college, job and marriage and kids on a straight and narrow pathway then good for them. If others want to travel and job hop and decide on a future by process of elimination then that’s fine too. This thread is just scaring young people.

this is the best advice in the whole thread

I did a handbrake turn aged 30, but never regretted my ramshackle 20s. My uhhn... "life experience" was not a waste of time.

Fucking finally someone with a sense of realism.

Reminds me of two quotes by two phenomenal writers that I think should aid people in their lives when things seem too messy to be handled correctly:

"And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.'" ~Kurt Vonnegut (attributed to his uncle)

"A man of genius makes no mistakes; his errors are volitional and are the portals of discovery." ~James Joyce

True! I'm 26 now and am still searching my place and what to do. After school I tried starting many jobs and also studied a while but am not a single step closer to a "real" job.

Very important is not to let you get sucked into what other people think of you. DON'T live other peoples lifes. And also VERY important: Don't listen to your parents.

Finding your self is important - the best thing I heard for doing that is to travel. Sounds scary, I know, I thought the same. I don't feel a rush in getting to work here in Germany. I first want to do all the stuff I want to do. After I've done all the stuff on my list I will be ready to settel down. But who knows what will be then and when that time will be. I think when I'm 30 I have checked the most important things of my list so that I find peace.

From when I got 20 to now 26 NOTHING happened career wise for me, but a traditional career is not my goal.

Money, if seeked, is a burden - like happiness. Go through all the stuff you own and tidy up your possessions. List every Dollar you spend and all that comes in. If you have a good overview, you can manage your money better. The same with all of your possessions - living rather minimalist and not running after cars and branded clothing is freeing and really helps take weight of your shoulders.

Live is not at all about what you own. Sit down - alone - close your eyes and think of what you REALLY want and need. Write it on a list and there you see what you need to go after. When you checked all the things on that list, you have made it!

I needed to read this, thank you.

Plus you do gotta enjoy it to a degree. Balance the YOLO life with some sound fiscal management.

I’ve seen many people retire and die before they hit 70. Definitely have a lot of your bucket list completed before retirement

Thank god you wrote this, there is too much gloom in society already, let alone this post.

I'm 21 btw and I stress out everyday about my future. So thanks for saying something positive and encouraging.

Love your damn life, you won't be 20 again (don't fuck yourself forever tho)

It's your 20s ffs, get out there and see what life has to offer, figure out what you like to do and, equally importantly, what you can't stand. Have a modicum of sense about it and you'll come out the other end just fine.

The having a modicum of sense part goes out the window in certain situations that the people in this thread are warning about. In my case, it was one toxic relationship that cost me about 10 years of my life, and I didn't have the "modicum of sense" to get out of it when red flags were there early on and then it became harder and harder as time went on.

Hey, I'm sorry to hear that, it really sucks.

My comment may have come across as too laissez faire but it was in direct response mostly to the statement of (highlighting mine)

20s are a Minefield everything you do determines a large chunk of your future.

Yes, things can go badly and everyone has different experiences in life, some go badly and things like hard drugs, jail time and toxic relationships should be avoided, which is the point of this thread and has been mentioned many times.

Stating that everything you do will have huge, long lasting effects is a bit much.

True that. People should definitely be able to enjoy their life in their 20s, and that'd be hard if you feel constant pressure like every waking moment you need to work towards your future.

Yea this makes me feel way better. I’m 29. I’d like to think that most of the risks I take are calculated. and the life choices I make are planned years in advanced, with schedules and goals. I’m still lost at what I want to do with my life, but i’m leaving my job to drive across country this fall. Idk what i’ll find in CA, but i’ve saved enough to live cheaply for a while. I’m not one to shy away from work ‘i’m too good for’.

I think constantly panning and stressing about what you do in your 20’s completely determining your future is silly. This is the time of your adulthood to make mistakes. Just make sure those mistakes are ones you can repair somewhat easily.

Most of the 20 year olds, myself being 25, wont get a 'second chance for free' this isn't the 80s and 90s, if you fuck up badly enough thats it for you.

More so with the looming automation taking 150 million jobs coming, good luck getting a job that isn't replaced when you had to scramble for it

Whether or not this is a healthy attitude to hold depends entirely on how broadly or narrowly you define fucking up badly enough.

I wasn't in my 20s in the 80s or 90s either. Sure, those may have been more prosperous times but it really is not as bad as all that right now out there. Again, I know plenty of people that changed things around in the last decade and were fine

Fine? We're looking at the most massive layoffs in human history in the next 5-10 years, unless you go into STEM you're fucked out a job, 100% and theres only going to be so many stem jobs, and even then you're job is in trouble from overseas, it is the worst possible time to be a 20 or younger year hold.

So this thread is about what mistakes to avoid in your 20s, your position is that the world is fucked regardless. I'll tell you one thing: you're 100% fucked out of a job if you don't even try.

And giving 20 year old's shit advice is even worse since they wont see the truck coming to run them over

Worse than what exactly? Not doing anything?

Not sure I'm following your train of thought there.

Live your life how you want. At the end of the day you decide whose advice and life experiences you listen to when they are offered. If you think my advice is bad, fine, don't act on it.

You can just as easily decide that you know better. Go ahead and prove the world wrong, but it wouldn't hurt to be prepared for it to not go the way you thought it would.

I mean, i'm not advising anyone to do nothing, but don't expect what you do to keep you fed and housed.

You can live how ever you want, it just so happens living how you want is why 48% of adults in america are far under the poverity line. maybe they should just live better huh?

And i would trust the people who have been right nearly every time with stuff like this, the people who are saying AI and robots are going to wipe out billions of jobs are the same ones who said this would happen to the car making jobs, and guess what? they hit the nail on the head

There are still plenty of options for how to live your life. Not just in stem. Yes automation will take a lot of jobs, but that's not going to be overnight. And that's not going to be every field. This defeatist attitude helps nothing.

Then you're either an idiot or blind, it's taking jobs from every sector, minus maybe..Government officials, and it wont happen overnight, but the speed in which this happened last time with the automotive workers was fast, that was 5-10 years, this time it will be even faster.

K, I guess we can check back in 10 years. In the mean time I'm going to go ahead and plan for my future and work towards a career. If you want to just tell yourself it doesn't matter because it'll be automated, go ahead. I agree that automation is going to change society drastically, I just disagree with your negative attitude towards it. I think everything will work out in the end.

I mean i'm going into fucking networking and the people i internship under are even saying i'll be lucky if i get work, thats one of the best STEM fields, at least i wont be blind sided when im canned, but dipships like you will be.

There's no reason to be rude my dude. I just think things will work out for a lot of people. I'm in law, so my job should be around for a long time. Hope yours sticks around too.

Look man, you're young, so let me tell you - this is just the latest of the doom and gloom apocalyptic predictions. When I was in high school in the 80s, we were going to run out of oil within the next decade, ushering in a new era of abject poverty. We were told that our parent's generation was the last of the American dream. When I was in college, there were nightly stories about college graduates standing in line for their welfare checks. Dan Rather had a nightly segment about how close we all were to homelessness. The hole in the ozone layer meant that by the mid nineties, going outside for even a few minutes would be impossible. The ranks of the jobless and homeless were forming gangs of crack addicted 'superpredators' and the number of crack babies was increasing daily. Manufacturing was moving to third world countries, there were fewer textile mills, and steel mills each year, unemployment was going to skyrocket to previously unknown levels, even farm jobs were gone as we started importing food from cheaper countries. Don't buy into it. The economy changes, but it's flexible, jobs change but they will always be out there, the worst thing you can do is buy in to the negativity and fatalism.

The oil thing and the 2000 crash was something we fixed with hard work and new tech, there isn't going to be a lucky 'phew dodged it' like that this time.

Every retailer and fast food place has already stated they plan to go fully auto by 2028.

Those jobs wont just poof back, theyll be gone forever

Those were just some examples, the economy has always changed and provided new and different jobs for those that have been displaced by technology - try to find a farrier, or carriage maker, or buggy whip manfacturer now. In the 80s, there was no such job as a network engineer or cyber security engineering. As recently as ten years ago network penetration testing wasn't a thing. Don't stress man, the economy will change, keep your eye on developing trends and you could end up in an even better place.

I have only so much gold to give...

Seriously. I am 29 and did everything the wrong way. At 26 just got into welding. Cost me about 1300 total for classes, whatever. Life is totally fine. I have no debt. It pays the rent. I feel like I can fall off the deep end again and have the resilience to just get back up again.

Thank you for this. I'm 23 and will think a lot more about my decisions because of this.

Bayes theorem at work. A lot of people irreparably fucked up their lives from bad decisions did so in their 20’s, but how many people irreparably fuck up their lives?

THIS. I am 25, horribly depressed, and have no direction. I feel ultra lost and most of these comments make it seem like 20 somethings should have a clue. But what about those that fucked up in college and don’t have a clue!

Biggest mistake going on in here is assuming there's anything you could do in your 20s that will irreversibly fuck up your life.

Yes, thank you for this. I'm in my 20s, but everything in this thread is all YOU HAVE TO DO THIS AND THIS AND THIS RIGHT NOW OTHERWISE THE WORLD WILL END and that doesn't seem like good or helpful advice. Maybe I'm just naive or maybe it's a generational thing but I think people in their 20s should just relax and go with the flow, life has a way of ending up okay.

Wonderful comment :)

Fairly agree here. I've had a 55yr old man in one of my undergrad classes decide he didn't want to be an engineer anymore and is taking the pre-reqs for medical school.

Nah, I like this thread, I had this level of pessimism when I was 23/25, now 26, I'm clearly ahead of the curve.

edit: lmao pessimistards are downvoting me.

This IS the necessary experience, you need to take chances, make mistakes, and get messy in your 20s so you know what to lock in when you hit your 30s.

I thought that was only for elementary school field trips.

Only if your teacher is a timelord who has a tardis disguised as a bus

Best life advice from that era's cartoons.

I think the problem is people hear "make mistakes, get messy" and end up getting DUI, pregnant or addicted to alcohol/drugs. You definitely need some guidance because those mistakes will ruin your life. Or at least a big chunk of it.

I fully agree but it is what it is, I waited too late and now constantly get beat out of jobs by people who are younger 10 years, not that that's an excuse, I love where I am now but it's a fact the older you get the harder you have to work for the same outcome

Because that's what life is. You can spend your whole life umming and ahhing about whether you want to be a race car driver or a doctor or a French translator, but these versions of you only exist in the ether until you actually pick a damn path and go down it.

We all have to make these decisions, and getting comfortable with that is a major part of adulthood.

Or, as Sylvia Plath puts it in The Bell Jar:

I saw my life branching out before me like the green fig tree in the story. From the tip of every branch, like a fat purple fig, a wonderful future beckoned and winked.

One fig was a husband and a happy home and children, and another fig was a famous poet and another fig was a brilliant professor, and another fig was Ee Gee, the amazing editor, and another fig was Europe and Africa and South America, and another fig was Constantin and Socrates and Attila and a pack of other lovers with queer names and offbeat professions, and another fig was an Olympic lady crew champion, and beyond and above these figs were many more figs I couldn't quite make out.

I saw myself sitting in the crotch of this fig tree, starving to death, just because I couldn't make up my mind which of the figs I would choose. I wanted each and every one of them, but choosing one meant losing all the rest, and, as I sat there, unable to decide, the figs began to wrinkle and go black, and, one by one, they plopped to the ground at my feet.”

Really though, as someone who's just turned 30, your 20s are about making mistakes and taking chances. You're old enough that you have freedom to do whatever you like, you're young enough that you (likely) don't have many major responsibilities that will hold you back. Move to Asia, learn new things, try to start a business that interests you, etc.

The worst thing you can do in your 20s is treat it like it's your 40s, getting locked into a relationship young, burdened by a family, closing off the world around you. You have plenty of time for that when you're older, but if you do live like that then you're going to have a mid life crisis when you're 40 and try to relive your youth.

There are other people who will definitely never have a mid-life crisis, because they loved what they did when they where 20, 30, 40 etc.

For me it's always been about deciding what I actually want to do (which is usually something pretty fkn odd), rather than what my family wants me to do, what the "normal" thing to do is, etc.

thank you for your thoughtfull reply!

You and the other people replying are really making me more confident in the decisions I already took and the ideas I had... I should really start reading up on Erasmus

Cause the only way you earn that knowledge and experience is by making the wrong ones.

Life is rarely so set in stone so long as you avoid doing the "lock out" stuff like having kids or doing drugs.

Use the time to figure out what you would like to do (and CAN do, however far down the line), figure out from that what you don't yet know about how to get there and go speak to people who know those answers. If the answers you seek are things you can only learn through experiencing (eg, would I actually like doing X) then find a way to experience it at a real world entry level. A super basic couple of examples, try out retail by volunteering in a charity shop once a week, try out teaching by helping scout groups for children of the appropriate age group, try out coding by looking up tutorials and making some basic programs or even securing work experience with a company.

The knowledge and experience is already out there to answer the questions you have, and the questions you don't know you need to ask. Learn from those going before you, actively seeking out their experience.

And should it all go tits up, you take a new path. I know successful non-celeb people who have changed career path multiple times, including as late as 50. One friend's father has bounced through being in the army, working in a shop, working in a prison, doing air traffic control, metalworking, and then finally getting a law degree and busting into that through old army connections.

Major decisions are life altering, but very few are so permanent as to prevent you going forwards. Take the plunge, give it a go, and if you're not entirely sure of a course of action, seek advice. "What if it doesn't work?" is a far inferior mindset to "Yeah, but what if it does?"

wow, thank you for the comment. It really changed my outlook on a few things

it's not necessary life altering, just try not to fuck up your life.

basically if you can look at a decision and say "this will feel good now but probably suck for me too far in the future to comprehend", then the way you decide to proceed will probably go exactly as you may expect.

So basically, start saving for retirement now because like it or not YOU WILL GET OLD, and even if you feel like you're in pretty good shape that shit will fade quick so keep working out.

Growing up is hard to do. There’s no manual for adulting. We’re all just winging it and hope it doesn’t kill us. If you think this is bad now, wait til your kids are old enough to be in the same place you are. That’s why parents worry.

I guess this is why my mother often says "small kids small worries, big kids big worries"

I’m 35 with 2 kids and I’m still winging it every day. My job is easy. Life is hard.

Ask your parents and listen. At 14-25 you think you know the world and it's all figured out. All the boring advice your parents are trying to kill your fun with doesn't apply to you because you'll be different.

I turned 40 today and have kids of my own and I look back and think, my parents might have been right. I'll tell my kids so they don't make that mistake....

It's all part of leaning who you are, and what life means to you.

Ask questions of older people you respect because they have that experience that you are after. They made mistakes at 20 and while the world is different actually lots of things are the same or are transferrable to you.

However, learn from mistakes, don't regret them. Regret gets you no where. Taking it on the chin and making future decisions based on your previous mistakes is a great way to not do stupid stuff again. Exception to that rule "I'm never drinking again"

I mean, drugs are the easiest of those two. Most of us try weed at some point but it's pretty well hammered home everywhere that meth and heroin will fuck up your life and cause you to be a burden on everybody else.

Some people just don't care what they do with themselves.

Relationships are far more complicated. I learned by making one very loud mistake after another.

Tons of people screw up their lives with alcohol and that's pretty well encouraged.

Because every decision is life-altering to some degree, the thing is that the consequences of those decisions build over time. Don't stress and do what feels right, you'll find your way.

Just know that debt is a hole, and drugs are a great way to end up in it. So is trusting a partner who is taking advantage of you. These things don't typically swallow you overnight, you just need to be able to pick up on the warnings and then actually act on them.

Because every decision you make is potentially life altering. I decided I was overweight, bored, and in retrospect probably mildly depressed so I needed to spend more time outside of the house. I started taking my dog to the dog park as many evenings as I could, walking laps while either making small talk with people or listening to audiobooks.

That's how and where I met my wife. If I'd joined a book club or makerspace or decided to keep being a shut in, never would've happened. We don't know what decisions will be the big ones and which will be the little ones. Best you can do is try not to make the obviously stupid mistakes.

You don't have to. People live their lives thinking:

  • When I graduate I'll...
  • When I grow up I'll...
  • When I'm working full time I'll...

And every time they pass a milestone they realize that nothing has really changed. They're not a different person. Life doesn't suddenly click into place. It just keeps going.

Life is just time passing you by and the main thing you have to beware of is burning bridges and closing doors. Studying the wrong programme isn't that bad, most people end up doing something other than what they studied for.

Closing doors is bad. Running up massive debt. Getting your dumb ass in prison. Developing a drug habit and so on. That's the sort of shit that'll haunt you but it's also pretty avoidable stuff.

Learn to live within your means and not procrastinate every decision and responsibility until it's no longer relevant and you got 90% of adulting figured out. The rest is just learning to go with the flow rather than trying to bend it to your will.

On the flip side, you have your whole life ahead of you too. Never too late to course correct or even pivot completely :)

Idk man...as a 20 something one should realize when they are making stupid financial decisions and dating shitty people. If someone in their 20s dates someone so detrimental or buys something so financially irresponsible that they dont understand how its toxic to them then that is a little ridiculous.

Please dont burn me at the stake. We all make bad decisions but to make such a bad decision that it effects you for the rest of your life goes from bad decision to dumbass decision. A 20 something needs to know the decisions they make...for the love God they're not babies!

The truth is that you can recover from most mistakes, no matter how large they are. That's the joy of being young enough to do something about it.

Ask an old person what you should do. They have the experience and knowledge for you to absorb

In the sense of humanity, that's the age when actual experiments will happen. Conservativeness has a downside of slowing down progress.

We need folks throwing caution to the wind and jumping off walls for wing suits to get invented.

Certainly going to be hard with that perspective.

Its a right of passage as a human being to make mistakes, to fuck up and do things you may regret. We all do it and will continue to do it and it's perfectly okay. Read every book you can get your hands on, if that's even just one a year that's better than none. Try to learn something every day. You gain that knowledge through experience, my friend. Try to do everything with love.

We overestimate what we can accomplish in the next 6 months and underestimate what we can accomplish in the next 5 years. Patience.

To play devils advocate, look at the crollerary to this. How hard is it to find what the very wrong ones are? I mean things like drugs, shit relationships, poor money managements should all be fairly clear things to avoid. As long as you don't completely fuck it up, you can recover later.

Thats the life problem there is no technical "right" one.

I think the best and easiest answer is that you don't. With modern communication and social media you can reach out to anyone about anything. Whether you'll get a response or not, IDK, but for most decisions there are smarter people who have already been through it talking about what they wish they did.

Experience comes from fucking up something important sooooo it’s kinda hard to have it before you attempt the important stuff. School is a good practice for it tho.

It is how we gain wisdom

Listen to your older relatives and friends when they try to give you advice.

To get the experiences and not make the same mistakes in your 30's.

You know the right calls to make, they just aren’t always the easy/fun calls. Growing up is about self control and restraint. Doing the right thing today to make tomorrow better, not living like tomorrow doesn’t matter. It’s all about building. Build your good relationships into stronger ones. Build your professional skill sets to differentiate yourself in the marketplace. Build your self-esteem and know your worth.

That's why you have mentors.

it’s bull. your 20s don’t determine your future, the present determines your future. you can change course whenever you want and as many times as you want (supposing you live in a free land and abide by the laws).

It’s simple. Start thinking about your life and what is important. That’s all it takes. Think about it everyday. Just thinking about your future regularly will change your life.

just leave the drugs and excess drinking alone and explore life. JUST stay away from the substance abuse. That will take care of 90% of it.

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But it makes me feel better, which makes me more productive, which makes me make better decisions

How else are the lucky ones going to feel smug?

20s are a Minefield everything you do determines a large chunk of your future.

I was just about to write this comment to another reply on here but felt like it wasnt that true....then I saw your comment. I guess I'm right then 🤔 lol.

it doesn't mean you're right. you should use it as an opportunity to expand the conversation.

This might sound like a stupid question but... I'm in my early 20's and do drugs every so often. Nothing like heroin or opiates but I was wondering what kind of drugs were damaging to you? And do you think it is alright to do them in moderation?

As a heroin addict, it’s ultimately a personal thing. You’re pretty well safe with light drugs like weed or booze but I’ve seen both of those drugs take people down as quick as IV heroin (much less often with weed but I have witnessed a handful of honest to god weed addicts) while at the same time I’ve met people who can genuinely take it or leave it after IVing coke or heroin. I’m the same way with cocaine, even shooting it is just ‘meh’ to me whereas shooting heroin as taken everything from me. Literally writing this as I wait on the dope boy to roll up.

Just try to be aware of how much of a role your DOC is playing in your life and try to nip it in the bud before it blossoms into something terrible

Just try to be aware of how much of a role your DOC is playing in your life and try to nip it in the bud before it blossoms into something terrible

I would add to this, very few people who develop addictions become aware of them before things start to seriously go downhill. As time goes on, the standard for comparison changes, and the standard for living keeps going down. Now, instead of saying, "Well, I'm not an alcoholic because I don't drink everyday," you have people who will say, "Well yeah, I drink sometimes, but I've never been in the hospital for it," or "Well, I haven't been fired, I still have a job!" The amount of rationalization and sacrifice that goes into an addiction before most addicts will admit their condition to themselves can be dramatic.

If I could ask those who drink or partake in drugs to do one thing, it would be to please listen to your friends and family, the people who truly care about you, if they start mentioning that you're acting differently or asking if you're ok. Don't assume that because someone is supporting you in using that they are your "real" friends. And realize that changing your routine, keeping secrets, and lying to others in order to use/drink is not normal behavior, and is a huge red flag for addiction. Recognize when you're lowering your standards, recognize when you're comparing yourself to someone who has hit rock bottom in order to rationalize your behavior.

I've lost a good amount of relationships with people I cared for due to addiction, including some within my immediate family. In every case, the individual actively rallied against reason, reality, and their loved ones in order to maintain what they wouldn't even admit was a problem. As antiquated as it may sound, I would strongly advise those who haven't used substances to just avoid them altogether, as it's just not worth the risk of not being able to notice when things are getting out of control.

Too true, that second paragraph is better advice than I gave. You’re totally right in that I rationalized away any consequences in my head but I was warned by so many friends and family who weren’t even aware of how bad it really is. If I listened to them instead of my own faulty thinking, I’d be a lot better off.

Update: why do drug dealers take so fucking long to arrive anywhere. All this introspection is making me crave.

I wish you the best in recovery should you ever make changes in your life! You give great advice :)

Hey, thanks (: I’m working on finding suboxone/methadone. Sadly I can’t just quit without losing my job due to the horrifying physical withdrawals that come from jamming at least a half gram to a gram of tar into my forearm daily

Keep working on it friend, don't let that tar steal your soul. Keep your focus in the right direction and press on. All the best from Toronto :)

Oh believe me, it already has. But I’ve tried suicide by overdose (to an insane degree, talking shooting up to 2 grams with other downers on top) and every time I wake up. And I just don’t have the constitution for more violent suicide. So at this point I need to just learn to live sans a soul or find a way to get it back. But living under the veil of drugs is just completely untenable. Thanks for the kind words. Dope boy showed up so I’m feeling a lot more talkative, apologies for the wall of text.

Don’t tell anyone they’re okay with booze if you don’t know their family history. Half the deaths in my family were from “casual” drinking that eventually killed them in one way or another. Not everyone can drink casually.

Oh for sure my dude, that’s what I meant with the caveat of seeing booze take down people as quickly as IV heroin. Maybe I didn’t make that clear enough.

Cheers. Err... regards.

This is the best advice.

Thanks, I wish I took and gave it years ago and many dead friends ago

Same here. I spent 12 years, since 20. I am clean now, but it's been a fucking struggle. Specially realising what I could have done better or not doing.

IMO... Avoid tobacco like the plague. Avoid alcohol beyond social events and don’t over do it when you partake. Stick to cannabis to relax in alone time or with friends, MDMA no more than once a quarter (do something fun and positive, like a great show with friends you can dance at), and explore psychedelics with equally interested friends IF you’re in a good headspace. Cannabis is great IMO but it’s major downside to the majority is people leaning on it and becoming functionally lazy. You may be extremely intelligent but if you begin to live in your dream world instead of put in the hard work to make it reality, you're in trouble. Save roasting herb for after your goals/tasks have been met and you’ll enjoy it even more.

At the end of the day, the best drug to take is the one you find in your 20s - achievement. Many of the actual drugs are artificially creating the effects of achievement on your mind (opiates are especially bad about this and is why so many otherwise “normal” people become heavily addicted - avoid them). Whether that’s professionally or with a small hobby, it’s the ultimate drug and will enrich everything and everyone in your life. Most importantly, it enriches yourself mentally. Being competent and having that told to you by others, verbally spelled out or otherwise, is critical to successful adulthood.

Thanks for saying this man. I wasted 4 good years of my life just smoking weed and doing nothing. I did finish doing some stuff but dragged it extremely long. I envy those people who can function on weed and be productive. Me as soon as I touch it I become a lot lazier than I already are. For such a long time I lied to myself that weed wasn’t the problem but just lack of motivation and all of this time I was wrong.

I never had any motivation because the only thing I wanted to do was smoke weed and sit down and do nothing. I burned through so much money and time just because I wanted to be right and weed made it feel great to achieve nothing. Fuck that. Weed may have helped a bit when I’ve been down but eventually it turned into a bad habit that kept me sedated and stuck in a deep hole.

For such a long time I lied to myself that weed wasn’t the problem but just lack of motivation and all of this time I was wrong.

This is a really, really hard truth to swallow for some "nightly" (daily) smokers. It's OK if you're content and/or aren't super cerebral/self-aware, but if you're someone with ambition and intellect without any momentum, weed abuse can be really detrimental - and you may not really notice it. Or attribute it to something else, as you said. I said this in some other comments but I feel like it really had a huge impact on me when I realized it: The muse finds you when you're working. All of those great ideas and dreams while high on the couch are unattainable until you hit the grindstone. And whilst on the grindstone, you open the door for the muse to enter.

I'm glad you found your way out of there, too!

I ALMOST fell into the habit of smoking when I was 18 and almost all of my friends were doing it. Thankfully I realized that it made me feel shitty and made me smell shitty too. I think not smoking until after being productive is definitely more rewarding. I try to only smoke at nighttime and only after exercising/doing hw/etc. and it proves to be pretty effective.

only after exercising

If you lift weights, taking a small rip of herb before the gym is actually awesome for performance. Paired with a strong cup of coffee and some deeply-placed earbuds, you're in for a big day.

My depressed boyfriend recently kicked his painkiller habit and my anxious younger sister used to live on weed & vodka. I can't speak for either person, but from what I've seen, my very situational advice would be: don't use substances to self-medicate anything, especially anxiety/depression. If you do that, you get into the habit of spending time and money on something that will only get less effective (thus requiring more and more intake)... instead of using that same effort to develop constructive coping mechanisms.

I don't even know if that's helpful or applicable for you, but it's a pattern I've seen in (and heard from) quite a few friends and family to varying degrees. I'm also not a therapist or anything, so don't quote me on any of this either...

I think that's really good advice. It is not applicable to me because I have been fortunate enough to never suffer from clinical depression or anxiety but I will say sometimes when I'm feeling down it's easy to want to get high/drunk to make it go away. I have some friends that are addicted to weed, to the point where they are never sober (my roommate even smokes at work). I also have a close friend who is an alcoholic because she had shitty parents and doesn't know how to cope with emotions. Because of them I've tried to avoid turning to substances at low points in my life.

If you are staying clear of strong stimulates and opiates all together, and then using whatever else in moderation, you'll probably be fine.

What is considered a strong stimulant? I used to do cocaine but I stopped because it gives me terrible hangovers and it's expensive.

I'd consider coke to be on the boarder. It's obviously not meth, but some people def take it too far. I mean if you don't use it anymore though then there's no worries.

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Heroin is one drug I'd never touch. I've heard too many horror stories. I've never met anyone personally who does heroin and I hope I never will.

Doing psychedelics is pretty safe.

Could you elaborate on which kinds of relationships could be bad for you? Just curious.

Relationships with people who may trick you into getting pregnant/getting them pregnant. Relationships with people who demand that you make life-altering decisions so they won't have to be lonely (for example, giving up a scholarship so you won't live 2 hours away from your SO of 9 months). Relationships with people who regularly engage in illegal activities, especially if they do so in your presence.

Not the user you asked, but those are some of the relationships that come to mind that have ruined or negatively impacted some of my friends. I'm 32 now and know quite a few people who have kids they didn't want, wasted potential/opportunities, or prison sentences because they made bad relationship decisions.

Ok thanks. My relationship isn't anywhere near as bad as what you are describing. It's really just OK. Just nice to hear older people's advice

Really just all of this that he wrote, really get to know someone before you get in too deep because you never know who they really are, Always use protection and don't trust the other person to use it. There are some very narcissistic people out there that will drain your soul, learn now that they aren't worth the time or the feelings or any of that and get out ASAP. Not saying anything about your new girlfriend just in relationships in general.

(Not speaking some spiritual stuff either about soul suckers,they just exist lol)

One of the most important lessons successful people learn in their 20s is when to give up. That sounds counterintuitive, but there are many aspects of life where decisions need to be made and some things need to be excised. Relationships are one of them. Love and partnership is the wonder of life IMO, and it’s very, very easy to find it and put the blinders on to everything else. Because it’s absolutely true that if someone you love deeply loves you back, there’s little else in life better. BUT, both of you have to have a foundation in the rest of life for it to persist. So the cautionary tale would be... Healthy relationships, and the best relationships, are between two well-functioning people. A career, great friends, hobbies, interests, etc. These things help sculpt you further as an individual, and give you something other to do than revel in your relationship, both of which are critical to a long-lasting relationship. If you’re having chronic relationship problems, even with someone you love, it doesn’t get better. In that situation, it’s better to cut your losses instead of wait and hope for a better day. Trust me.

Beyond that, I honestly don’t advise having a lot of casual sex. Date people, befriend people, start and build relationships with great people and run from toxins. Save sex for when your infatuation grows beyond physical attraction.

My .02 from the 30s looking back.

You know what sucks though? I'm in my early 20s and literally everyone around me is having casual sex with different people every week and everyone's hobbies in my age group consist of abusing drugs (coke, pills, and other stuff I'm not sure of) very heavy drinking and lots of casual sex. With social media being bigger than ever and being able to connect with strangers so easily, everyone within my age bracket is doing very regrettable stuff. I'm alone since I don't do any of that. Shit sucks

The truth is that will likely persist, at least the casual sex part. Drug use will claim some and taper off in others, but the current dating scene exists for cokeheads and the sober alike. My advice from the early 30s... Keep the focus on yourself. If you have major career aspirations, chase them in small ways daily, no matter what else you may do. If you have major hobby aspirations that a career is funding until you make the hobby your career, chase it HARD every day. If you are content with your career with little ambition, save your money wisely and think deeply on where you'd like to spend it. A two week trip to Peru? A new guitar? Enough to move to a city/state you've always dreamt of living? Or how about a nice home and family 20 years down the line? Breathe these things in daily so that they become you - because they are you. Why is that important? So others will see. It's not that you want to brag, or show-off, but you want what you're capable of as a person to come across. It's irrelevant whether or not you're self-aware of your competence; if it's true, others will see it. Especially competent others.

I say all of this because when that is the case, it's curious how magnetic you become in finding others similar to you. Maybe it's shared interests, maybe it's shared ambition, and, way back to your comment, maybe a shared life with a significant other. And I don't mean you'll suddenly start to meet people, but when you do meet people, you'll be ready. Because if there's one thing about the 20's it's best to learn quickly, it's that you should always be ready; the moment you dreamed of to allow you something you want can appear at any time. It's up to you to be ready to pounce.

You're right. I've been focusing on myself since that's the only option I have. Seems a bit hard to attract people like myself since my scene isn't the "going out" scene so no bars, clubs, or the like. It's just not fun. So finding people, just friends is a bit hard. But you're right, Gotta stay ready for those opportunities that come my way. And I'm equally as lost as every young person when it comes to career talk. Hopefully my hobbies open doors to something I'll enjoy and make money from

It's repeated ad nauseum, but for real try hard to work on those hobbies every day. Just think if you did 30 minutes a day for two months... That's 30 hours of work. What if it's 3 hours a day? Hard to accomplish up front, but with some momentum it's doable. That's now 180 hours of work in just two months! Who knows where you will be with it in 2 years.

The doors will open, trust me. Doors that don't currently exist and doors you haven't yet considered, nor dreamed of. The muse finds you when you're working. Trust that and even if your original situation remains the same in a year, you will have transformed mightily.

Haha I like that! Thanks for that. Thinking of the time I could spend doing something and adding it really puts into perspective how much work is being put into it. It's bound to lead me somewhere, maybe not to the place where I imagine, but maybe to doors I'll need to go through for that "next step". Thanks for the words!

You're welcome, just trying to impart some learned wisdom! The biggest mistake of the 20's is to stand still. Keep on moving always in small steps and eventually you'll get somewhere that may or may not be what you envisioned, but it'll be what makes you happy.

Thank you! I'm make sure to keep on moving

Go to any of the /r/askreddit threads that are similar to, "Hey reddit, what red flags in relationships did you ignore" And read a bunch of them. Drug abusers, narcisists, people who refuse to grow up, thieves, cheaters, liars, drunkards.

There's tons of shitty people out there. Just find someone who makes you want to be less shitty, and that they feel the same.

no pressure

Pfft your .02 adjusted for inflation is enough to buy an avocado now.

Not to worry, I'm not cool enough to get either of those

Never did drugs but God damn I feel ya about the relationships.

So you're saying just staying home and playing video games alone every weekend is the safest way to spend your 20s? I knew I was doing something right...

Ha, didn’t plan on doing either of those things.

^God ^I ^wish ^somebody ^loved ^me

Really agree with this. I'd say having a good education and being a competitive candidate in the field you want to go into = easy mode for the rest of your life.

I'm 20 and have what I consider to be a fairly healthy relationship with drugs. I live in Europe and will have MDxx every few months but ketamine every few weekends.

When did you slow down? How much did you have? I'm worried that I'm lulling myself into a false sense of security because nothing is wrong with me now, and that I am developing a warped sense of what a 'normal' amount of drugs is.

Would appreciate your thoughts seeing as I can't really speak to the 30-35 year olds I am close to. Thanks! :)

This is what you do. You stop, try something else as a hobby, not drugs, for a long time. If you truly want to return after that time, then you can know it’s what you truly want, and not some delusion. I realized it with pot; I need to separate myself from even the most benign things to regain confidence in my own power.

Okay so here's the thing, to be 20 and aware or at least looking for problems that may arise at least shows common sense so for you specifically my advice is to stay aware,you know who "inside you" really is and when/if you start seeing yourself making decisions you normally wouldnt make id start trying to back off whatever substance is causing it. With me I really really loved psychedelics and research chems. I started off every "addiction" casually as you are,if you can keep it there and steady then you should have no problems,i simply didnt. There were instances with like meth and alcohol that I noticed my patterns changed and quit completely and thankfully those are two things I've never been addicted to. But I didn't love them like I did psychedelics. I really like what the other guy said about you will slow down when you mature into a career driven adult, it took me till I was 27 but everyones different.Set goals in life and strive to achieve them and experiment if that's what you're going to do just be careful.Moderation truely is key.

Also: since you're messing with things close to my world you might read the comment about safe drug use that I made on here

Could you elaborate on the big careful with relationships part. I'm 20 and just got my first gf so I'm curious what you mean

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/8edllv/serious_what_are_some_of_the_biggest_mistakes/dxut86m/

Sure not a .08? Hmmmmm?

My mom drilled it into my head over and over that the person you choose to marry/have kids with (should you choose to do either) will greatly determine your entire life, so make sure you get it right. It's so hard to understand when you're young just how much this rings true, but now that I'm nearing 30 and seeing friends going through divorces, be stuck with baby daddies/mamas they hate and have to deal with every day for the next 18 years+, or go through terrible financial situations, I am eternally grateful I heeded her advice.

Yes she was right,I'm a very positive type dude and in the past 24hrs in this post I've been called negative and doom and gloom repeatedly ....its just true,like not everything in life is ice cream and lollipops and im glad you took her advice too,cheers

Sorry people have been shitty.

I'm a very positive person as well, but I also think I'm realistic. In your teens/early 20's you cannot possibly imagine what it means to be stuck for a lifetime with someone who constantly drags you down or makes things harder. As far as we know, you get one shot at this. I just didn't want to mess it up by having a kid with someone I didn't like, or with someone who was crap with their finances. I can't imagine being middle age and not having done anything positive with myself because I was tied to someone else who sucked, but that seems to be what happens to so many people.

Man. I’m in my mid twenties and I read a book about maximizing your twenties.

It’s full of possibilities, but it’s also filled with decisions that can screw you for life.

It’s frankly a bit terrifying since I obviously don’t want to wipe out in life O_O.

Just make sure when u wipeout its one you can come back from,everyone wipes out and its not even always their fault(dreams for entire life to go to the University "A" but gets rejected and ends up at University C for example) and they readjust their path..just stay goal oriented and keep moving forward and youll be fine.

I'm in that pit right now - banged up my undergrad at college and now am working to pay amends.

It's definitely demoralizing since my friends are off in upper education or good jobs...and I'm trying to fix my academic record. However, I can't stop...and I don't want to stop.

Yeah plus your friends will hit their share of wipeouts too and you never know how it will all end up...have you ever played "game of life" board game?you can start as a janitor in that game and end up retiring a millionaire due to how you handle the trip...its something like that lol

Good point. I had an uncle who became the vice president of a big company...and wiped out because he gambled away his fortune. On the other hand, I had an uncle who struggled in his youth...and now works as a top-tier physician because of a chance encounter with a supervisor.

The "game of Life" mindset is the reason why I'm not completely discounting myself...and I've gained a few good opportunities in my exile. I just like planning things from the get-go, but the best-laid plans are always destined to fail.

I saw .02 and thought, fellow surveyor! Then again maybe they just forgot the $.

What is good drug usage/bad usage to you? Is there room for some in moderation?

Depends on you,im the type person "all or nothing" which is good with some things but drugs notsomuch.If you can actually thrive and still induldge then sure,but alot of people start off that way and end up way off track.You know you

Also good drug usage also includes research...like alot of research on anything youre going to try.Go to erowid or a similar site and know these points

1.whats it made of

2.how much to take for a small/med/lg dose

3.read other peoples 1st hand experiences and learn what the come up/down are like so u will know where you are in the experience and what to expect next(i know everyone and every experience can be different)

4.what are the bad side affects (panic,dehydration,ect)that have arose and how to handle it or keep it from happening

I know situations arise when someone gives u a pill or something you dont wanna pull out an app and look it up but its worth it,just step to the restroom for a sec.

ALL U.S. PHARM PILLS HAVE A #...DONT TAKE ANYONES WORD,THEY COULD BE WRONG...just type the number into google,instant test that could save your life(dont know about prescription drugs in other countries)

I appreciate your response, thank you.

I was raised in a home (born to parents of ages 43 and 37) that always allowed me to do what I wanted to do—they always encouraged me to grow in whatever way I wanted to. I am so thankful for that, though as a result social encounters I always felt a little behind on social encounters. It was rather easy to get alcohol from age 15 on, though, and I for sure took advantage of my family's liberal stances. I think the freedom mostly worked out well, but I do wish that I would have been pushed more. I felt like ages 19-23 I was kind of playing catch-up with everyone else in life.

I had a major depressive situation beginning in November 2013 that lasted through July 2014, and I was able to get myself out of that without drugs. Since then, though, I've experimented with weed, cocaine, mushrooms, stimulants—something I always wanted to do. I don't hide it, though. I guess what I worry, though, is that I will never know if I'm able to "thrive" while indulging in drug usage.

I don't even touch alcohol anymore, but I do smoke daily. And I've grown so much since I started smoking in 2015. I went to school, graduated, got an internship, got a job offer, got a promotion, got another job, got another promotion. It all seems to be going well, but yet I smoke more than ever. I guess I can't seem to believe that I can smoke all the time and keep this up, but I've literally been doing it for years now.

Also where you're talking about thriving and experimenting with new stuff,follow my above steps to make sure u don't make mistakes.And one thing i left off is i said "you know you" well also the people closest to u know you so if someone that knows u says you're acting different or going overboard,listen to them.Sometimes you're too close to the forest to see the trees or visa versa lol

Sounds like you're doing fine,if u notice slippage in your responsibilities back off for a week or 2 and see the difference

Both can easily fuck you up

In truth it's completely the opposite. Your 20s are pretty much the only adult time period you can severely fuck up your life and completely recover, or totally change your career or educational path with almost no repercussions.

Ok yes,but some choices dont go away in your 30s 40s 50s from your 20s thats all im saying

Marry the first person that shows interest in them because they feel like it's their only chance to be with someone, and having kids immediately after, because "kids improve marriage". No. No. No. Just... no. Kids are cool, but as long as both parents fully participate and a baby puts an enormous strain even on a healthy relationship.

Marry the first person that shows interest in them because they feel like it's their only chance to be with someone,

I've been single for 29 years. I don't know if I have another choice.

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The spartan truth in spartanTruth's post is that he's racist.

A racist... for stating facts that whites have so many privileges, one of which is being regarded as the standard of beauty?

https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-attraction-2009-2014-107dcbb4f060

trash like you prove certain races are truly subhuman

"facts". universal ones too.

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cuz you're even more of a pathetic loser your white bonus of +8 points couldn't save your -7 nature. Tl;dr 8-7 =1. 1/10 males can't find women.

What the fuck? Not enough diversity in media is still a problem.. but its getting better in many places... and I think everyone, even the ignorant ones, can usually agree that theres attractive people of every group.

I think everyone, even the ignorant ones, can usually agree that theres attractive people of every group.

That's not the point. the point is that whites are regarded as universally attractive and are given free points on the attractive scale because they are white

https://theblog.okcupid.com/race-and-attraction-2009-2014-107dcbb4f060

Married college sweetheart. Happily married with kids. Don’t stereotype me!

EDIT: forgot to add the /s. Of course marrying the first person you can find can be a mistake. Don’t marry someone because you’re scared they’ll leave you otherwise. That’s a really shitty reason to get married.

"College sweetheart" hardly equals "the first person that shows interest". Sure, some people get lucky and I don't doubt that you did. Getting married just because he/she is "okay" and you are scared of dying alone is a recipe for catastrophe.

I added the /s. You’re definitely right though.

Not even sure if I would even want kids. Might just adopt if anything tbh. The world doesn’t need more humans.

A family member of a friend is doing this right now. From everything my friend tells me, the divorce is inevitable. She just wants the wedding, complete with the socially acceptable excuse to be a total bitch to everyone.

She says it's her "last chance", whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean. Meanwhile my friend and I are both old and not married (and it seems my friend is going through a bit of a breakup over finances and religion: she made more than her fiance by quite a lot, and they had very different views on what religion even is), neither is in a rush, and we're like, "But that doesn't even make sense."

I think it's pretty important to actually know the person you marry. Take a minimum of two years to get to know each other. I've never understood what the hurry is.

I only feel sorry for the kids in that situation. They grow up thinking that's normal.

Exactly. It's already hard to end the marriage/long term relationship without kids and nearly impossible when you have them. Also staying together "for the sake of the children" is one of the worst things that is commonly done. Watching your parents hating each other really messes kids up :/

MLMs

Have you heard about our great new opportunities and careers at AVON?!?!

Might be off-topic in a [Serious] thread, but last night I had a really vivid dream and part of it had a bunch of Scottish people chasing me like Zombies trying to sell me skincare products.

I've a feeling it's a cross between the common MLM skincare and the "Yer Da sells Avon" joke.

Thats fucking great

Bitch move over, this the time for LuLaRoe to shine. ^^I ^^can't ^^believe ^^I ^^just ^^said ^^that

Pretty sure any MLM is a regrettable decision (unless you’re at the top of that shit, in which case you’re a scum fuck and good luck in your next life as a toilet brush) at ANY age.

Also, seems to me that most people sucked deep into MLMs are middle aged, too. You do you. Unless you’re doing MLMs, in which case, do not do you! Please. 💋💄👊🙈👑👛🏅🏆🏵💰💸🤑

I worked at an MLM for a couple months a couple years ago (when I was 22) and it was actually a pretty great time. I learned a shit ton of people skills and matured a lot. I went into it as a super shy, awkward kid and 2 months later I was confident, vibrant, and one of the better salesmen in the office. Money wasn't bad either, the pay was 100% commission but I was earning at a rate of about 30-40k a year, which is pretty good considering it's door-to-door sales.

Money wasn't bad either, the pay was 100% commission but I was earning at a rate of about 30-40k a year, which is pretty good considering it's door-to-door sales.

Not sure why you were downvoted. Sales can be a very lucrative profession if you have the right attitude and instinct, and it sounds like you do. I have read several comments on reddit over the years where people had a good experience with Amway/Vector marketing selling the knives.

Where the MLMs run into trouble is that they'll take anybody that can maintain pulse and respiration, and have money to buy the "starter kit" for the pyramid scheme. There is zero vetting or interesting in find personalities that will fit with their company culture.

Well, shit. Chris i know you're swimming in that Jurassic park money now... Mind tossing me some of that, there, foldin' money?

Especially mlms that center around investing. The ones that deal with crypto, forex, real estate, etc.

WASTING TIME!

I wasted so much time and here I am in the first year of college at 29 years of age while most of the people in my class are 18-19 years old.

26 year old student checking in - on the plus side, being an adult learner has caused me to take my studies a lot more seriously.

Im also a 26 year old student. Most of the time im the oldest by a bit. I feel way behind especially because 27 is the age when some of our peers will be doctors

27 here about to sign up for fall, because I’ve been feeling like a loser.

Question. Do you think it’s better that you’re taking classes now that you’re older? Rather than taking them right after high school and not taking it as seriously?

I absolutely do. I have life experience now, and I have had several “real” jobs and become quite disciplined.

It’s also opened the door to studying more difficult subjects. Out of high school, my difficult classes made me want to quit everything. Now I am studying neuroscience and psychology, and I get excited for the difficult things. While they are still difficult, I’m just actually interested in the subjects now.

because I’ve been feeling like a loser.

People going straight from HS to college don't know that desperation. You'll push yourself harder.

I personally think more people should study at university longer or when they are older. When they are too young they simply aren't mature enough.

The younger ones in our uni tend to waste it. I think there's a lot of benefit in starting uni a bit later.

Could be worse could of finished college and never gotten a good job. I'm thinking of going back. Feels so hopeless.

I had both of these things happen to me. I wasted time the first few semesters of college and never finished my program. Ended up going back a year or two later, finished and got me degree but couldnt get a job at all.

I then went back a third time and completed another program but it seemed really really easy the third time around and the work offers started flowing like crazy. If you do go back try to possibly pick something that will accommodate what you learned the first time in college. It will almost be like completing a really high end degree and make you much more desirable on the job market. If you cant pick something like that just dont let your self feel hopeless. Finishing college again may give you another boost in mood out of that feeling.

Is it wasting time if you felt like you weren’t ready?

I noticed this about a year ago. I'm 25. All I fucking used to do is waste time. It's crazy.

Staying in a meh relationship because they think that's as good as relationships get.

[deleted]

Pretty sure this post is giving me the final motivation to drop school and my wife. Being miserable just because I have been doesn't mean it can't get better

Do what you gotta do, but think carefully. Don't let a generic, albeit true, reddit comment be the final motivation to do such life-changing things.

A comment can only push someone over the edge if they were already standing on it.

Yeah, or else u/4827335772991 will end up like you, u/Regretful_Bastard.

Dropping school probably isn’t the answer

If the only reason you are staying is because of sunk cost, then by all means BOUNCE! But remember, school and relationships are hard. They take time. They take you powering through certain parts even when you don't feel like it.

Plus school isn't sunk cost. If you have a year left on your degree, that means you have spent 3 years on it. The cost is only wasted if you drop out.

Do you have any kids?

"Um ... yes?"

"QUICK GET OUT!!!"

Nah - actually the opposite. Once kids are in the mix it's a lot more nuanced on why you'd want to GTFO from your wife. When it's just two parties involved, if one wants out, much simpler. If he's got kids - sometimes it's better to just deal with what's going on, therapy, etc. You can be selfish and say I'm done - but the kids didn't ask for a shitty parental situation. But it's super dependent on the situation of why he wants to split from his wife. Sometimes it's way healthier for the kids.

Drop the wife not the school. Unless school is a main source of misery, a solid education not only gives you marketable skills and a social network, it also enriches your life. I would be a much more dull person if it weren't for all the things I learnt in class.

Wife, yes. School might be worth staying as the costs of leaving when you're almost through might not be worth it. If it's not working with your wife I can't see how there would be a point where it's beyond the cost.

God speed man, hope things go well

Good luck dude, live your life as best you can, who really knows if you get a second chance?

Big life changes tend to be best accomplished incrementally. The strain of one may be making it seem that the other issue is unbearable, but the reality is that, as things change, we can bring our life into balance. I wouldn’t quit both at once.

Choose one, take a beat, and then reevaluate the other. If it’s still making you miserable then go for it.

Exactly! It's more accurate to say you're throwing future years away by staying in a "meh" or bad relationship. Past years are already spent and you only have so many left to use. Use them wisely.

i feel attacked.

Haha, hello me of 5 years ago!

Spoken like a true economist

This is my problem. I’m just worried that I’ll tank my career by investing in a girl. On the other hand, I have friends who can balance such things well.

Those years are gone

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

r/thewalkingdead

Serious question: how do you know if the relationship you're in is good enough?

While I agree 100% with the idea behind /u/teenlinethisisnitro's comment, this is a very fair question to ask. It's always so much harder to recognize a bad relationship when you're in the middle of it.

Nothing is set in stone, and even good relationships go through bad patches. But here are some thoughts on what identifies good or bad relationships, generally speaking.

Signs you're in a good relationship:

  • You look forward to spending time with the person in the very short term. For example, it's Wednesday and you're going to see your partner on Friday. Does it make you feel happy and excited to think about the next time you'll see them? Great! Does it make you feel sick, anxious, depressed, stressed out? Understandable if you're going through a temporary rough patch, but you should not feel this way all the time.

  • You look forward to spending time with them in the somewhat long term (let's say 3 months for a new relationship, 1 year for a relationship that's at least 6 months old). I cut it off there because it can be hard to think about the REALLY long term, especially when you're young, and that's totally okay as long as you're on the same page. But you should be excited at the prospect of the relationship continuing in the near future. If you're constantly thinking "we probably won't still be together in a few months" or "this is fun, but I don't really see myself with this person for much longer", that's probably a sign that it shouldn't drag on for too long.

  • You feel pretty confident that your partner feels the same way about the previous two points; i.e., they're excited about spending time with you.

Other than the absence of the above, here is a sign that you're not in a good relationship: You don't want to introduce your partner to your friends. It can take a while to unpack this feeling, but in my experience it usually boils down to a) there are things you don't like about them, and you're afraid of your friends seeing those qualities and disliking the person, or b) you're afraid of your friends seeing the way the person treats you, or c) you don't think you'll be together for very long, so you don't want to introduce them to your friends only be stuck explaining a few weeks later that you broke up.

this was posted in /r/datingoverthirty and I feel like it more or less fits this theme

https://markmanson.net/fuck-yes

This was a good read, thanks for linking it!

That last point in particular is really great. If you aren’t excited to introduce them to friends/family, you’ve gotta do some thinking about the relationship.

What if you don't have friends?

Serious question.

Huh.

How do you find friends?

Maybe try to find a group of people who share a hobby or interest with you in your area.

I mean, not having friends is definitely its own problem that needs to be addressed. But just in terms of being able to evaluate your relationship without the help of friends, I think you can substitute "friends" in my comment for "family" or "friendly coworkers" or "anyone you like and respect". The idea is just that introducing someone as your SO to people you care about (even if they're not close friends) makes the relationship more real to you and forces you to think: "if I don't think this person I like would like my SO, why is it that I like them enough to date them?"

I think the better spin on that would be do you have the confidence to introduce your SO in spite of differences your friends/family may have with SO.

Ex: My friend introduced his girlfriend to our friend-group a while ago but she didn't really get along with anyone in the group, there was nothing wrong with her- we are all rather loud/enjoy board games and some friendly ribbing, but she was very quiet and not particularly interested in board games. I think he was a little anxious about introducing her to us because we are fairly different, but 2 odd years later they are still together and doing fine.

tl;dr there are multiple reasons why introductions could be less than exciting, and not all are bad.

Very true - I’ve experienced both the bad kind of anxiety about making the introduction, and the neutral kind. I was a little nervous about introducing my current SO to my best friend, because they are both kind of shy and don’t have a lot of shared interests. But I was still really excited to tell my friend about him and excited for them to meet in the sense that it would make it more “real”.

In contrast, I never wanted her to meet or even know about a certain ex of mine because we were constantly on the rocks and he had a really mean sense of humor that I knew she wouldn’t like. It got to the point where we’d been together for over a year and I hadn’t even told her we were dating. In retrospect, I didn’t like his sense of humor either and the fact that I instinctively knew “none of my friends will like this person at all” should have been a red flag that I had some serious reservations about him too.

I’ve never introduced anyone I’ve dated to my parents and I’ll probably be doing that for the first time this month and I’m nervous.

What if I don't tell my parents/family stuff that happens in my life anyway? Would the last point apply to me? In general, I'm not overly excited about sharing the deets of my life with others

I need to break up, but I don't want to hurt her and be the ungrateful asshole...

The longer it goes on, the worse it will get. Rip the bandaid off.

Think about it this way: either you both hurt now or you hurt her way more in the future to avoid hurting a bit now. Clearly the second one is the one that makes you an asshole.

Seriously this statement couldn't be said any better!

Do you want your SO to be happy in the long run too? In the same circumstance, you're considering the feelings of your SO, and ultimately want them to be happy.

Save the aggravation, hurt, and emotions by ripping the bandaid off - sooner rather than later.

I'm in the same boat. Started casual and now she's way more committed to it than me but both times I've tried to cut it off she started crying and telling me how shitty I am.

I am a weak person.

Edit: I wish I was in the dame boat

I stayed with someone I wasn't happy with for almost 7 yrs!!! I'm now in a healthy happy marriage and expecting our first child. Get the fuck out, do it for you!

you'll always be the asshole in this situation, and then you'll feel either worse or better when she finds someone new so quickly....

"I know I always said that I could never hurt you

Well this is the very, very last time I'm ever going to

But I know that I'll be happier

And I know you will too"

IDK man. I mean I was just in a meh relationship. I always was looking forward to seeing her and shit, but that was just because of lonliness. I didn't have any friends, and no one "better" to hangout with.

This is where thinking in the semi-long-term has helped me. I was in a relationship with a guy I cared about deeply; we got along great and had fun together, but I knew it wasn't going to last forever. I was in my early 20s and just not ready to spend the next 5 years of my life with one person. So while I always looked forward to seeing him, it made me anxious to think "are we really still going to be doing this in 6 months? A year? Two years?"

But loneliness always makes it harder to get perspective. I think that was part of my problem too - I did have some other friends, but I was living with my parents and visiting my boyfriend was pretty much the only way for me to get out of my boring hometown. I had to accept that my life was going to suck a little more until I could change other things that were making me unhappy. And I think the breakup gave me motivation to do that - within a year I had moved out and was spending more time with friends.

Word, thank you.

[deleted]

I'd say your points are more about friendships you have that are meh, not your SO. If your friends treat you in a way that you think your SO won't like it's probably because they're disrespectful towards you. This could impact their view of you, but it's more about a dynamic you're embarrassed about, which is between you and your friends. Your SO likely already accepted you for who you are, otherwise you wouldn't be together (or you're not open with them which is indicative of lack of trust and a sign of a bad relationship).

For instance, I have a friend who recently came out as bi and started dating a trans woman. He was super scared to bring her around our friend group because he wasn't sure how we'd treat her or him. Most of us were totally normal, no behavior changes at all. But the one friend he knew the longest wasn't so accepting. The friendship was really the issue once he evaluated it, not his relationship.

So, if you don't want to bring your partner around your friends because of them, it's likely they are the problem you need to solve, not your partner.

Shitt the first point occurs with me. I kind of feel like hanging out with my girlfriend is a chore. I love her a lot and she's crazy about me, and I'm always excited to introduce her to everyone because she is visually stunning and has an incredible personality. But we think on very different wavelengths. She's very reactive and emotional and it's difficult to have a "deep" talk with her,. She gets very heated and sensitive about pointless things like politics and gossip. It's so hard to hang out with her and I feel like just being on my own and browsing the internet or reading books. I'm not even an introverted person but it's hard to connect with her. Like sometimes I will say something like

"How do you think a plant can change the direction of its growth to where the sun is shining?"

and instead of responding with something interesting or building on it she'll say

"I don't know! But I saw this pretty plant on the walk here." or she'll look at me funny and deflect and say something less interesting.

The fact that english is not my first language doesn't help either. sorry I'm venting

Have you been together for long? If it's only been a couple months, maybe you just need a little more time to connect. A language barrier can definitely make that more difficult.

Also, maybe try a little harder to understand her interests. I can understand not wanting to talk about gossip, but politics is hardly "pointless". Maybe it's not your favorite subject and science isn't her favorite subject, but maybe if you both put a little more effort into engaging the other person instead of just talking at them, you'd find more things you have in common.

But if it's been a while and you feel like you've given it a good shot, maybe this just isn't meant to be a serious relationship. If you're both okay with keeping it more casual and just for fun without a deeper emotional bond, that might work out fine. If you're looking for something more serious, you might need to end it.

This is a great comment. Thank you

Being afraid of others seeing how she would treat me was one bright red flag I ignored for along time. Defending her behavior was even worse.

While this is all great advice for people in "new" relationships, it doesn't do much to cover how to tell if you're in a meh relationship after a long time.

There are situations where you start off really strong in a relationship but it fizzles into meh a few years in. At that point you're probably living with your SO or seeing them almost daily, so the point about spending time with them in the short term isn't applicable. After you've been together a while, it's harder to picture the long term in my opinion. A few months out and you'll likely be in a similar position, same with a year, so that's easy to visualize. But when you've been with someone for a few years, looking to the long term usually spans drastic life changes. You're looking at new careers, hobbies, kids, houses, and it's hard enough to picture who you'll be as an individual, much less who your partner will be and how you'll function together.

And introducing them to your friends isn't applicable after some time anyways. If you haven't introduced your SO to your friends after a year or so, something isn't working out on one end.

This is all great advice for people just starting to look into long term committed relationships, but it's much much harder to tell if you're in a good relationship after a few years.

The last part about not introducing your SO hits hard. My boyfriend and I (both guys) are not out yet, because he hasn't come to terms with himself and doesn't wanna come out yet. Tbh being gay adds another layer to all this.

What if you're just scared your friends might start flirting with your partner and you'd cut them off?

Gotta work on'em jelousy issues

Step one get friends to gauge relationship.

1) Does the other person work at the relationship? It might seem obvious when put that way, but if one person is the one trying to keep both happy, when that person tires out, and the other one can't be relied on pick up the slack, the relationship's gonna die when that point is reached.

2) Do you talk through problems with respect? You wouldn't namecall and cuss at a co-worker right, so you two should aim for a much higher standard for each other. Both sides must be able to understand the other person's perspective to the point that they can restate it back to the other person in a way that they would confirm it's accurate.

3) What is their philosophy on money? Couples need to be in sync on this shit.

4) What's their stance on kids? This is a big deal.

5) How do they handle being mad at you? Both need to be mature enough to make their feelings known, but having enough restraint to avoid torpedoing the relationship in an emotional fit.

It's all just variations on the same theme of communication. You guys can have differences, but with good communication skills, you can work through most of them by having one side or the other deciding to meet in the middle, or deciding that the strength of the relationship is more important than always being right. You need to also make sure you aren't the one sabotaging relationships by being hard to communicate with. Definitely talk about and work through the big issues like money and kids to figure out if the relationship has got legs.

This is perfect, if you have 1 and 2 the rest should go with the territory. Well said!

YES. This wraps it up very nicely. What I would add is having some sort of similar interests; not everything they like you have to like or vice versa, but you need some common hobbies! No matter if it’s just movies, or some kind of sport, anything goes.

4 is a big deal and me and my SO don't have the same ideas on kids. We are also pretty young. Should I be worried?

I wouldn't say you should worry, so much as re-evaluate what you need out of this relationship. Ask yourself, "If I end up breaking up with him/her years down the line when I'm looking to have kids, am I going to have regrets about not doing something earlier?"

You're young, so there's nothing wrong with just having fun with your SO for a few years before going your separate ways. However, if you don't like the idea that the time you're putting into this relationship isn't going anywhere, then you probably need a serious talk with your SO. Ask him/her to seriously consider, "Can you imagine yourself wanting kids eventually?" Don't give them any pressure by emphasizing that you want kids, because you don't want to wind up having kids with someone that is merely accepting kids as a cost of being with you, that can go sour in obvious ways. Conversely, ask yourself "Can I imagine myself going through my life childless?" and see how that thought feels.

It's really unpleasant to think about, but if you are diametrically opposed on this, it might make sense to amicably part ways before you guys get more invested and having a harder time breaking up down the road. I am generally against casually breaking up relationships because of differences, because it's unreasonable to be looking for a mate that just matches you on everything. However, kids and money are differences that are pretty critical for compatibility because they affect so much in how you prioritize your shared life together, and they're really difficult for people to compromise on, and kids moreso than money.

I'm actually the one who needs to consider if I could see myself wanting kids eventually, but the advice still applies. Thanks!

As someone who was dumped 2 days ago before a major life move, without ANY warning signs but was actually reassured til the last day by my immature, stubborn, incapable of getting over his manchild tantrums ex - thank you.

just wanted to emphasize on your first point, 5 days ago I broke up a relationship which had lasted 6+ years because I could no longer keep us both happy. She was great the first 4years but then things just changed almost no more sex and if we had sex it would just be something quick with no intimacy. she just has a lot of stuff to deal with but after more than a year of trying to force communication, I'm just so very tired of it. I don't have any bad feelings towards her but I just had to move on for both of our sakes. I do hope that your or my comment can help someone I was together with my ex from 16-22 and to be fair if I didn't have a recent wake-up call it could've gone on for a few more years of being severely unhappy. Of course, it hurts right now but deep down I know I made the right decision.

This this this. Holy shit. Most of my past relationships failed because of communication issues, both on my part and on my partner's. Sometimes I was right and they were wrong but I let my pride get in the way and gave the the cold shoulder because they were being an ass.

I've since realised I need to stop being childish and be able to calmly voice my feelings and thoughts. More than needing someone I'm head over heels for (which is so important) I need someone who is willing to work with me, I try to always fix things and work on the relationship but have often found that I am the one left to pick things up and change, the frustration eventually got to me and it'd cause problems, my lack of immaturity in my approach on how to resolve it didn't help.

When you're young, you'll fall hard and fast, and they may well be the love of your life, but timing and being on the same page is why sometimes people break up, and also why some couples who aren't madly in love end up together and married.

I think you just made my mind up for me to ask my girlfriend to marry me a lot easier....

saving this.

My girlfriend calls me a "poop" when she's mad at me - the level of anger varies from the intensity of the word poop.

If she calls me a "POOP", then I know I really effed up. I find it very cute so I cant take her seriously HAHA

I wouldn't say good communication skills are a necessity, expecially when you're young. My partner and I are both kinda shit at it, but we've found what matters is that we're both trying to improve and help each other improve with it.

Are you happy? If not, do you see yourself being happy? If it's a yes, then it's fine. If it's a no, consider talking about your frustrationa WITH YOUR PARTNER GODDAMMIT TALK TO THEM. And if all else fails, there's some Jack on top of the fridge. Cheers

Why do we all instinctively put our whiskey on the fridge and our vodka in the fridge?

There are lots of factors, but a few that come to mind for me:

  1. Are you a more authentic person with them or without them? My wife has encouraged and supported personal growth in a way I never would have done on my own.

  2. Is your future predicated on you or your spouse changing in order to be happy together? If so, it's bad. You marry a person for who they are now. If you can't accept that, get out. "When we're married X problem won't be a problem" is never true.

  3. Are your philosophies on life decisions compatible? Money (my wife and I share all money regardless of who earns more. I have friends who split the bills and any extra is their own.) Kids. Religion. Where you want to live. Career vs family time. Etc.

I'll add to that the fact that the comment above about unicorns and rainbows is correct. You aren't going to have the butterflies and emotional highs anywhere close to how it is early in the relationship. That's because the butterflies and emotional highs are aren't love. It's emotional lust. They're based on the excitement of new and romantic (ie unknown) experiences. You're going to know your husband/wife better than you've ever known anyone. Sometimes you can't stand them, but you CHOOSE to love them. Sometimes it's awesome. Love is not a bouncy, fulfilling spirit that is always in you because "she's the one!" It's a choice. Every damned day. Sometimes it's an easy choice. Sometimes it's really, really hard. That's what commitment is.

I've actually changed because my so asked me to. We had a real rough patch and I was very stubborn. With that I also had very few actual own opinions. She told me she wanted a break for a month.

It worked wonders, looking back to it now almost 2 years later. I was sad, lonely, angry and after that curious. I suddenly saw mistakes I made and how my personality was bad for my so, and would be later on for myself. I changed that. We've been together for 8 years now. I do feel she has to change now btw, she's a bit of a negative person. I on the other hand am mostly a relaxed dude with positive thinking.

I feel that getting married under an expectation that someone will be different in a specific way once they’re married is a risk that rarely pays off.

You’re story is great, though. Did you guys get married in that bad place and suffer for six years or did you just change as a person and then adjust as you figured out how to work together?

It’s a subtle difference, but to me that feels like an example of “choosing to love” within a marriage. “I’m mad, I’m bitter, my wife’s pissing me off on a regular basis, but I’m going to figure out how to be a better husband because I can control that and I love her.”

I'll amend the "change" point to also mention that both people WILL change because that's what humans do, but it's usually in ways you wouldn't predict. That is what I've seen test more marriages than anything. "She/he is not the person I married." Well yeah. You were 26. Now youre 40. I hope you're not the same people.

There's a great self-help book called "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" that has a series of questions you can ask yourself about your relationship, to explore if you are feeling torn!

This is a really hard question to answer. I’ve asked it of myself many times. I’m engaged now, but I dated three other people for a year or more (and many other shorter term relationships) before I dated this person. So I felt like I had a lot of comparisons and I thought a lot about if this was the right relationship.

Each one had its own pros and cons. One guy was super romantic and sweet. We were high school sweethearts so there was this familiarity and young love thing that lingered. Another guy and I could talk more than anyone else I’d ever met. We talked and talked for hours on end, never running out of new ideas or things to say. My mind was constantly stimulated. However it became clear to me looking back, that in both of those relationships, there were far more cons than pros. Arguing, not being supportive of each other, drastically different life goals.

My current relationship isn’t nearly as strong in those areas, and I wondered for a long time if that was a sign that this wasn’t enough and I should go find those things. But I realized that this relationship has so. many. more. good things. I am overall extremely happy, whereas before I had happy moments, but was overall unhappy.

The general things that I think support the best relationships are:

  • Ability to compromise and work through issues. If you’re always fighting it doesn’t matter how much you love each other, you will always be unhappy.
  • Similar ideas of how to spend your lives. Kids/no kids? Part animal/stay in movie night? Travel/no travel? Agreeing on these things contributes to how much you enjoy the time you spend (alone and together) for the rest of your life. You don’t have to agree on all these things, but you should agree on most (except kids. Be on the same page about kids.).
  • Respect and support each other. Be supportive of each other’s goals. Don’t tease or insult each other in front of others (or at all). Allow the other person to be in charge of their own decisions and trust them to do the right thing.

Those have been the biggest ones. Failed relationships were all missing some or all of those. Successful relationships will have every one.

Relationships go both ways and it's your job to do your part. Are you putting everything you can into it and reaping little to no benefit? If you're doing the best you can to make it work and be fulfilled and the other person isn't reciprocating the way you need them to, let them know. If they will not or cannot change, it may be time to move on.

Of course, this doesn't apply, in my opinion, if you're married. You should only get married when you're ready to stick with the person regardless. After that, unless there's straight-up adultery or abuse, I feel you should ride it out and care for that person until one of you is dead.

That’s an intrinsic question to ask. What means the most to you and what does it take to make you feel fulfilled and loved? Every relationship values something more than the other but I feel a lot of it comes down to the effort each other is willing to put in the relationship and how much better your life is with them in there. It takes a lot of effort, consideration, sacrifice, and care to build a meaningful relationship with someone and it will never be easy.

I wonder too, there is such a huge gray area. few people are with a perfect or horrible fit. Yes, you should leave abusive drunks and you should stay with that perfect person who suits you 100 percent all the time. But what about the majority, how do I know whether this harmonious relationship is one of the good meh ones or bad ones?

Another thing to consider: if you're considering taking it further, realize that building a long lasting relationship is about more than love, attraction and connections: it's about building a life together. Do you both want the same things out of life? The same sort of lifestyle? the same types of goals for how you want your lives to be as you grow together? Relationships take more than love. How you want to live matters, and two people who seem right for each other could have very different ideas about what an ideal life means.

if you question whether it is or it isnt, then i hate to tell you, but it isnt.

the old saw that youll know when you have the right one, is very very true.

( source, celebrating my 20th anniversary with my wife in 2 days.)

One way I've seen it described is that relationships take work, but it's work that makes you feel good and fulfilled like gardening, or cooking for the joy of it, or progressing in a video game. If it's "work" that makes you feel like weeping or that you're dead inside and you dread its presence, run.

You don't. There is always potential for better, but you have absolutely no idea who they are or what their faults are.

Having the potential for a better relationship does not mean that the current relationship isn't good enough, or is even wrong for you.

Serious question: how do you know if the relationship you're in is good enough?

Try a few first. Then you'll have a baseline to compare against..

First: Are you happy?

Second: If your friends are telling you the relationship is shit. Now this isn't a cause to break up immediately, but it is a good sign to really look at things. It's much easier to spot the problems from the outside. Dodged a few bullets by listening to friends over the years.

I can only answer from my experience so don't take this as an actual answer, it's just my story. All my previous relationships felt like I was trying to buy happiness. I would spend money (that I didn't really have) to try making"our life" better, only to have it make things worse in the end. This was different, I was honest when things (finances mainly, usually a $30 tank of gas) wouldn't allow me to see her. Occasionally things would get heated but when we both finally would accept the facts of the situation weren't going to allow it, magic would happen. I'd get a check in the mail for $300 from someone I'd done some pro Bono computer work for. This didn't happen once, but too many times to count. After the "seventeenth and a half" magic coincidence, we realized that the physics of this world weren't going to let us be apart. We cared for each other like nothing that could be explained. I think most of it was(finally) being responsible but I would be lying if I said I didn't think there was an external force making things work out.

I met her not because I was trying to meet a girl but I was actually trying to get a better job so I went to a client's "family fun day" at the request of accounts payable.

Do the right thing and it will be apparent. At least in my case.....

You smile when they enter the room. You have similar goals and values, you admire their family. You put each other as first before everyone else, you are a team. There will be heartbreak, mistakes and failure but there will be great times with your best friend. I am 50, married 27 years. We have 3 grown kids, one is my son from a teenage pregnancy, reunited 10 years ago. My husband says my son is his own. We experienced a miscarriage. We have had job changes, business successes and failures, good times, hard times and conflict. Yet we love each other more everyday.

Every relationship has ups and downs so it's wise not to jump every time the tide comes in but at the same time people can waste decades with a partner that they just genuinely can't stand anymore. Maybe at one point they loved them--maybe they never did, but any positive aspects of the relationship are gone and they "stay for the kids" or the house, or just the convenience.

Tldr: in general find people you want to smile with, not argue with. All couples argue from time to time but you shouldn't be arguing all the time.

If you've gotta ask then you probably know the answer...

I've been with my husband for a decade and get excited to see him every single day after work. There's always something to talk about or do together. He's the best friend, partner and father to our 8 month old son. My heart just feels so freakin' full looking at the two of them. There has never been a question of whether this man and our relationship are "good enough". It sounds cliche, but if you have to ask, it's probably not.

If you dread, or otherwise feel negative about, spending time with someone, the relationship is NOT good enough. If you only ever feel neutral about spending time with a person, then it is good enough if you fear being alone for the rest of your life.

A good relationship is defined by having good feelings about spending time with someone. You should feel a pull or a draw towards that person.

Good luck.

Serious reply: If you're asking that question, then you may have already answered it.

I'm going to counter this. I feel people are so ready to bounce out of a relationship because it isn't the "unicorns shitting rainbows" type of happiness they've read about. Some relationships are a slow boil that turn into something greater. Others are a speedball in the veins that last less than a year. Sometimes staying in "meh" isn't horrible. It can improve and be worth it, but if everyone is so hasty to jump the gun, then you're left disillusioned and unsatisfied at every turn.

Edit- didn't realize how much traction this would get! To add on, I'm not saying "settle for less", but more of "work for better". Sometimes it's worth jumping because you're miserable, but I'm advocating that to make something shine, it needs to get buffed.

Exactly. So many people expect relationships to be perfect and if they aren’t, then they weren’t meant to be. It’s incredibly rare to get along perfectly with someone else 100% of the time. Shooting for that is like trying to win the lottery.

If you wanted to date someone who was exactly like you then whats the point? A relationship that slowly built trust over years and worked on problems is infinitely better than ditching a relationship when things seem uncertain.

All contextual, obviously.

I feel like even finding someone exactly like yourself can go wrong depending on what kind of person you are.

Well I for one do not want to date someone who has a penis, so dating someone exactly like me might lead to some struggles

It's not gay if the penis is feminine.

This is true. I think about the episode when Jerry Seinfeld dates Jeneane Garafalo who is just like him. It starts off great and then he realizes he hates her because he hates himself.

Aunt and Uncle were in an on and off relationship for 4 years before she finally realized their breakups coincided with her seasonal depression. They'd get back together once the sun started coming out again.

Huh...that's really interesting. I feel I might have a variation of this.

But sometimes you just click with people. Not that it's perfect, but more that it's just....easy? You just 'get' each other, you laugh a lot, everything just flows smoothly. Sure, there are arguments, but they get resolved. Most of the time you just love being with the other person and it all seems so easy and stress-free. That's what I want. I didn't have it with my recent ex, and tried to force it, and we both ended up super miserable. Too many fights, too much just not understanding each other's point of view...I don't want that for the rest of my life.

The assumption is that any problems are with the other person. If it's not good 100% of the time, maybe it's you too.

I've spent my life in a series of truly awful relationships, and now I've been with my current girlfriend for almost 10 years, things aren't perfect, but we get along, we don't fight, we care about each, and yet because things aren't absolutely perfect she occasionally asks me "why exactly are you with me?".

I imagine she wants you to say “because you love her and can’t imagine living a single day without her” and then proposing because she’s been just your girlfriend for 10 years and probably deserves a ring and it’s probably making her insecure.

“Because the house isn’t burning down around us. That’s why.”

You just helped me understand a Bright Eyes lyric properly, so thanks for that.

I disagree that relationships cant be perfect.

They most assuredly can be.

The people who keep saying you have to work at it, are people who are invariably either single or have been divorced themselves.

Wouldn’t those be the people that wouldn’t say you have to work at it? You know because they are single and divorced because they don’t think it’s worth it to work at it.

I also didn’t say they can’t be perfect. I just said they’re incredibly rare. Unless you have a realistic definition of a perfect relationship. A lot of people don’t because of TV and movies though.

no , the people who cant so it think its a job you have to work at. you just have to be a good and decent person.

An author i love, once had a character answer the question , what is love?

The answer that character gave was, if your own happiness is directly tied to the other persons happiness.

This is the best way i can describe it as well.

If someone threw a grenade in the room with you and your partner, if you would dive on it to save them, then you love them, and if youd both dive on it, you love each other.

I agree that this is a good analogy for "real love", but it does not contradict the fact that you have to work at it in any way.

"working at it" does not mean trying to conjure a flame that was never there; it means making sure that fire stays lit. If I use your analogy: a couple who "works at it" could be in the middle of the biggest argument of their life and they would still both jump on that grenade. Why? Because they were not attacking each other in that argument, they were trying to solve an issue. This is what "working at it" means.

I don’t see what any of that has to do with a perfect relationship. My point is people give up at the slightest hiccup because they have this idea of a perfect relationship that probably doesn’t even exist. They get bored for a second and question whether or not they want to be with someone the rest of their life and think that having the thought alone means the aren’t with the right person. There are all sorts of bumps in the road and you can’t just bail at the first sign of trouble because you think a loving relationship is suppose to be a permanent smooth ride.

well giving up means you werent in a relationship worth saving. if you give up, you didnt care enough about the other person to make it count. If you were truly in love youd never give up.

i realize im being a bit obtuse and yet simplistic all at once but love is kind of a simple thing.

There are times you want to remember to swallow your pride and even if you are right in an argument, you let it go. Being right is not necessary to being happy.

I don’t think you’re understanding my point. Just because you don’t give up doesn’t mean it’s love and just because you second guess yourself doesn’t mean you’re not with the right person. People give up too easy because they are chasing something unrealistic they saw in a movie or read about in a magazine.

and counter to that is that if something means that much to you, you wont give up when things are a little bit challenging.

That’s not a counterpoint. That’s an entirely different point. Some people start in relationships they shouldn’t because they think it’s real love and some people pass one the real thing because they think a relationship is supposed to be something else because of what they have seen in fiction. The original point is the perfect, fantasy, problem-free relationship isn’t realistic. You also don’t always know when it’s the right person right away. Another unrealistic expectation.

Grass is always greener on the other side. Because they water the grass.

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And trim the bushes.

This feels like an analogy for watersports.

But just as hard to mow..

I think you make a good point, but it's also important to remember that it's okay to not be in a romantic relationship. Sure, most relationships won't be "unicorns shitting rainbows," but that doesn't mean you should hold onto a relationship with someone you don't really care for. No relationship is better than a bad relationship.

Of course! I agree with your sentiment and find that true.

This! I remember thinking how simple my long term relationship was and that there must be something more exciting. I decided to marry instead of bailing and focused on making myself more exciting. She grew with me and we are 10 years into marriage and more in love now than when we were dating.

Nah, it depends on the person. Some people get really attached to relationships and can get stuck in unhappy relationships because they feel like they’ve met the one. If that’s the case I strongly suggest breaking off the relationship for the sanity and happiness of all parties. You did a good job describing the type of people who are looking for an unreasonably happy relationship 24/7. However, I’ve talked to and seen the first case a lot more than people eager to dump their partner and I think people who can’t move on have a much bigger problem than people with high standards.

Exactly. Two years I was about to break up with my girlfriend because I was miserable and couldn't see things getting better. Tomorrow we are getting married. Putting in effort and working on the relationship really paid off.

Sometimes you sacrifice the first six years of your 20s for someone you believe is "the one". Then one day, you realize you're 26, been through multiple promotions while your SO has not, there is no discussion of a future, marriage or children, and the lack of intimacy and passion simply becomes a nail in the coffin.

Sometimes, you realize that loving someone isn't enough to stay, and that there IS a difference in loving and being in love.

Sometimes, you have to remove yourself from a stagnant relationship because you know you deserve better and you can do better.

Some of us have tried and tried and kept their mouth shut about being unhappy, because as long as their SO is happy, that's what ultimately matters, right?

Sometimes, we learn a little too late and before we know it, we are 27, having to restart the search for a long-term meaningful relationship and have been trudging through the sludge and shitty people.

Sometimes, we try to deal with the "meh" and don't expect rainbows and butterflies because, obviously, serious and real relationships don't have those things... Right?

Sometimes, we wind up meeting someone after all is said and done and now, after losing six years and dealing with shitty dating experiences, we find it hard to believe that a relationship could flow so well and cultivate happiness.

This message hurts and I feel for everyone who has gone through the same :(

You'll all find that one person who makes you feel special some day.

I completely agree. People tend to think they'll find that "perfect someone" who will make them happy forever and will find any small hiccup in their current relationship to use as an excuse to break up. If you are in a relationship you should work together to fix your issues, not find someone "better".

In a way, I kind of see how highly religious marriages and arranged marriages might be more successful than most. They don't have as much of the expectation for that dopamine rush that unicorns shitting rainbows provide so they're less likely to be disappointed.

I agree. No relationship is match made in heaven. And even if it is, once hardships come, perfect relationship turns rocky often. Don't give up if you see two things coming from the other person : unconditional love, and a will to change.

Well, this is the issue, isn't it? Do you leave the 'meh' relationship hoping to find a true soulmate or have a more exciting life, or do you suck it up and think that you're lucky to have someone who loves you and wants the same things in life? I was in that same situation 4 years ago and I left, and I'm still not sure if I made the right decision.

No such thing as a "true soulmate." A marriage is really more of a business partnership where you happen to love each other than anything. You need someone who can pick up the slack for you in a crunch and who you can do the same for.

Yesterday, I had an emergency at work, my husband got home a little early and cleaned the kitchen. We laughed when we found out that we had both bought tubes of toothpaste on the way home (we were running out!). I cooked eggs and toast while he cleaned the den and got a the latest episode of Westworld on for us to watch. He remembered everything that happened in the last season and explained what was going on for me because I don't know wtf. Then he played Skyrim while I watched and yelled at him to pick mushrooms. He set his alarm for me for the next morning because I have a bad habit of leaving the volume down on my phone, so he's in charge of setting alarms now...

My life isn't super exciting, but we have things we look forward to. Vacations, trying to have kids, we have life goals and things we'd like to do 5, 10 years out. We went to Ikea last weekend, then stayed at a crazy party until 6am and spent all Sunday in bed recovering because we're too old for that...

I mean, your life is really only as exciting as you make it, but sometimes "exciting" sounds a lot better in theory than in practice. Like, what do you actually want, day to day?

Eh, when I say 'soulmate', I mean pretty much exactly what you described. You just take it for granted. Literally being able to get along with another person like that, be on the same wavelength, have the same life goals, knows you inside and out, etc. is what I mean by soulmate. It's WAY rarer than you seem to think it is. I had something close with my long term ex, but ultimately things were toxic due to codependency issues. I would love to find a healthier version of that relationship. Just having someone who has me as their priority, and they are mine. Having that feeling of 'us against the world' and having each other's back. That's what I mean by soulmate.

Eh, when I say 'soulmate', I mean pretty much exactly what you described. You just take it for granted. Literally being able to get along with another person like that, be on the same wavelength, have the same life goals, knows you inside and out, etc. is what I mean by soulmate. It's WAY rarer than you seem to think it is. I had something close with my long term ex, but ultimately things were toxic due to codependency issues. I would love to find a healthier version of that relationship. Just having someone who has me as their priority, and they are mine. Having that feeling of 'us against the world' and having each other's back. That's what I mean by soulmate.

I can't answer that for you, but if you're still not sure, I think that's a very telling sign you didn't.

Well, it wasn't even 100% on me. I think he was done and too much of a coward to end things. My mental health had declined very steeply over the last few months of our relationship. People make the point that if he was truly a good partner and person, he would have moved hell and earth to get me help instead of actively making things harder for me (he had refused a few week's break from each other (with no permission to see other people, just a break) earlier that year while I tried to get my mental health together). Maybe it's easy now to look back and regret ending it, but at the time I felt truly miserable.

I almost broke up with my girlfriend at 2 years. She talked me out of it and we had more discussions and knowing how much I love her now, I would kill myself if I had done such a thing. 5 years together now and every time we get to see each other, it's like I'm high on life. The distance thing is a little painful though(mainly bc of finance - gas is not cheap).

The key, imo, is to communicate effectively and not argue about stupid shit (we rarely argue unless it is called for), and to work on your self to be the best version of yourself (keep trying to attract your SO!). Doing this will tell me if we still have a deep connection going on.

No relationship is perfect, but there should be, at a minimum, a sense of trust and safety with your SO. Unicorns shitting rainbows is nonsense and no long term relationship can sustain it, but if you hear the garage door go up and get a bit sick to your stomach...something is very wrong.

If your definition of a successful relationship is "unicorns shitting rainbows", then by all means leave what you think falls short. Best time to sort that out is when you're young.

You'll either find what you're looking for, find it's unattainable, and/or settle for something that comes close enough.

Some people do find enjoy those ecstatic relationships... but many don't. But it's no use wondering "what if" and putting 2 people through a crap time.

Ohh god, I rather be in short fulfilling relationship than a meh one.

The most disillusioned thing is trying to so something about and it not going anywhere. Waiting and hoping in a slow to boil relationship is just naive.

I agree. Life isn't a romantic comedy. Love and relationships are hard work.

Yes! Work for better. Relationships take work. No matter who you are paired with, you are going to have battles to fight.

exactly right

people think by choosing one girl you're giving up your options. Actually if you have compatible values and relationship right all your options will be explored with the same girl as you go through trials and tribulations and enter different phases of your life together.

Dating currently as it is is very much a 50 first dates type of thing. people get really good at the very first bit of a relationship and think thats all there is too it, when it is about to change phase from lust to companionship they feel they have to disconnect and start again. Have they really learned anything by doing that?

I agree a lot. I've had multiple long-term relationships. It was never perfect. We'd have fights, we'd have pet peeves that we had to accept about one another. With my current boyfriend (and perhaps soon-to-be husband, we've discussed the possibility of getting married in July), I still completely feel like I've never been happier, more excited to see him when he or I come home from work. But we do have hard fights. We talked extensively about it, and basically decided that it wasn't worth waiting for things to get perfect, to take the next step, because we love each other enough to not expect things to be 100%. I feel that it's a perfectly valid relationship. Other people don't get the right to look at us and say we shouldn't be together, it's exclusively the right of us to decide.

Thank you. Nobody just sticks it out anymore.

"My man has to be 6'2", play guitar, has abs, makes at least 100K, handsome, funny, shits golden eggs yadayadayada and I'm never going to settle. I'm better than that."

"Okay, good luck with your cats."

😂😂 hehe shits golden eggs..!

And that's precisely my point. People aren't checklists, they're people. Have standards, but be realistic and understand everyone has flaws and sometimes what you need isn't packaged into what you want.

I'm so glad to hear that reasonable people still exist; thank you for reassuring me lol :P

The key is identifying whether it's a 'growth' relationship, or if it's holding you back.

But agreed 100%; growth is at the core of a good relationship.

As much as we hate to admit it, we all settle in our relationships to some degree. There comes a point in everyone's life where they're just tired of dating all over again and decide to either stay with the current partner or stay single. I think people need to understand that it's ok to be content with what you have sometimes unless they are legitimately bad for you. Not every relationship is gonna be fireworks 24/7, to expect that is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Yes. My best friend got engaged last year and she and her fiance have been in the honeymoon phase" for their entire relationship. Meanwhile my boyfriend and I aren't the lovey dovey type, we both have lives outside of our relationship, etc. and it appears very "meh" to our friends. I was just at my best friend's house over the weekend and she and her fiance looked at me like I was nuts when I said I didn't have to spend literally every moment of my free time with my boyfriend. People just have different ideas of what the "perfect relationship" is.

I’ve always thought this way. Relationships require work.

Love isn’t enough.

BOTH of you need to work at a relationship. Be better to each other every day. Whether that means actively drinking a glass of water when you wake up so you aren’t a cranky bitch in the morning to your SO or if that means asking your SO that you need some you time to relax and chill.

Both parties need to work together. Talk about their issues. And actually actively work to do better, not just say so.

Love isn’t enough. Putting in this time and effort is what makes your love grow and make it worth all the effort.

If your SO or even yourself aren’t willing to put in the work, then things will fail.

So much this. So many people always looking for greener pastures when it’s really themselves they need to fix.

that’s a very baby boomer attitude, and is why couples over 60 usually have been married for most of their lives because that’s just what the normal thing was to do back in the mid 20th century; find someone at a young age, marry, and stay with them your whole life even if the relationship sucks

It is, and I'm aware of it, but many women did divorce their husbands by the late 80's and early 90's. We have more freedom now than ever, but with more choices actually comes more dissatisfaction to an extent. I see too many people drop someone because "he isn't 6'0", "she has more bodies than me", "there was one fight", "he doesn't match my checklist"....petty reasons. It's too easy to pickup/drop a person now and that's my main point. Everyone wants a love story, but too many people do not want to put in the work for one.

Mine was a slow to boil. Totally worth it. "Meh" can become shitting rainbows if enough work is put into it I think. But you're right, giving up all the time thinking you'll just magically land a better relationship is asinine. Relationships are more "built" than "found"

I agree with /u/FirePowerCR. My girl and I are having issues with this. She wants the crazy lovey dubey relationship but we're both in university and I work a lot so its kind of hard. She wants the relationship where we talk 24/7 and go our constantly but its really hard at early 20s. Im totally fine with shooting some texts and making sure shes fine and safe. I thought our relationship was great, I always counter her with the "im doing this shit right now so we dont have to worry about anything in the future" but I dont think she fully understands it.

I wish I would have taken that initiative. I was constantly going out with my now wife. Should have been focusing on paying my student loans off and getting set for the future. Used to always get the “we never do anything” speech. Now, we never do anything because we’re trying to save for a house, honeymoon and pay off my student loans at the same time.

Relationships aren't work; bad relationships are work. If you are happier alone, then dump the deadweight.

I finally found someone who was easy to be with, and we've been together for 7 years. Never be in a relationship that's work. It will only get harder over time, and especially when kids come along.

But when you fight, you have to put in effort to translate your thoughts effectively. Granted, it shouldn't be arduous labor, but it does necessitate some modicum of effort. The reality is the majority of relationships go through SOMETHING together. NOT facing any type of tribulation with your significant other is an anomaly. I'm happy for your happiness and wish you the best of luck! I only wanted to clarify my point further.

Ya I guess it depends, but I was previously always the type to be in a relationship. I stuck out a lot of them longer than I should. I took a break, focused on me and when I started dating again, I decided not to settle. Eventually found my wife and we've been happy as hell since.

Lol being ugly at least excludes me from these problems

I think it's a matter of time. I've been in multiple relationships, none were perfect, all lasted over two years. The first ones were all "meh," I just couldn't motivate myself to make the relationship work. Maybe because I didn't really feel a future with that person. My last one was the only one that really made me feel "WOW!" at any point. It was also the worst towards the end, but because we truly weren't meant for each other, and all the effort in the world couldn't make up for it.

Relationships are complicated, but if you feel like you've done what you can, or even want to, then you shouldn't be in that relationship any more. If you don't want to put the effort in, you're better off single.

Above all, don't be in a relationship just because you miss the warmth of another human being.

I disagree with this. When you’re older and you’re more adept at knowing what you want, then sure. But in your twenties? I feel like you’re so young and are still learning. Why not explore? Youth is so fleeting, that to waste your time with someone you’re not too interested in is a waste. Actually, I don’t think you should ever be with someone you feel a constant meh feeling with.

So if you want to be with me
With these things there's no telling
We'll just have to wait and see
But I'd rather be working for a paycheck
Than waiting to win the lottery

but if it's toxic, get the fuck out. i've seen far too many people stay in relationships that do not work for far too long and it fucking breaks the people involved every time, some don't recover.

And for gods sake don't keep living with them. It is not worth it.

The trouble is knowing both: what does love really look like, and what aspects of a relationship make you happy/unhappy.

It's hard to know what love looks like if you don't, first, love yourself. It's hard to know what makes you happy if you're unsure how to make yourself happy.

Focus on self improvement and introspection. These help with relationships.

Dicks shinin' like a diamond.

Yes. Everyone has that "one that got away" because you thought you could do better.

There's a flip side to that. It's easy to get dissatisfied, throw away a good thing, and discover that you actually had a much better partner than you objectively deserve and actually you can't just swipe Tinder and get someone better.

Oof. This hit too close to home

I think about this topic through this light often. When I get more or less uninterested in my GF, I compare our relationship with the world's perception of relationships. What I mean is, all this talk about side-chicks, underhandedness, cheating, and just disloyalty and deception really puts me off disregarding someone who wants nothing to do with that. Especially being in my 20s everyone just wants to fuck.

Maybe we're not an amazing couple doing big things all the time, but we still build each other up and are there at the end of the day. We aren't earth-shattering go-getters but we have jobs and a dog and I just hope we grow old and happy with having each other through it all.

So much this. Just because the person doesn't suck, doesn't mean it's right for you.

I'm 37 and watching peers divorce left and right from relationships that they just sleepwalked into. Or kept going along because it was "the next step." Nearly all of them say that they wish they would've ended things when their gut feeling first told them to, not try to talk themselves into a fundamentally incompatible relationship hoping it would improve

I’m in a spot like that, I’ve been with this girl for 2 and a half years and idk if this is what I want or not but it’s my first relationship and I’m only 20.

Same, except It's been almost 4 years and I am 24...

I feel you it’s a hard decision, do I leave and try to experience more because maybe it’s better. Or do I stay and just accept this is the best I’ve got. It’s not like I don’t love her I just wish this happened like 5 years from now.

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I hope you figure it out man, and good luck in med school that stuff isn’t easy I’ve heard.

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Ya like I love her but I don’t think it’s the right kind of love I think it’s more just caring about a person rather than love love. I just don’t want to make her sad though... feelsbad

I was in your shoes and had to pick between "love" and "in love". It was fucking hard but the reality is you should never let someone hang on to you like that. It's selfish.

I feel you should be honest with yourself and ask "am I doing this for the right reason"...

Agree 100%. Went through this, breaking up is hard, but 'no reason to stay is a good reason to go' as I've seen quoted somewhere..

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It's never simple. I'm not a wise old sage, but from what I've seen in others it usually boils down to "can I accept this person for who they truly are"?

Are they the same problems and disagreements that just cycle over and over and over again? If so, it's not going to change and you have to decide if you can live with it.

You can't be in a "meh relationship" if you're never in a relationship 😉

I wasn't in a relationship until I was 26. I'm glad I spent the first half of my 20s single and enjoying life with my friends rather than sitting on the couch watching tv every night next to some guy I wasn't crazy about just to have something to do.

get out. I married someone based on a meh relationship. I felt that way @ 3 years and then rationalized it was good and now I'm straight out.

It took a really big smack in the face to get out. There is so much more to offer. Wait for it. You can have the puppies and the rainbows. I was honest with myself about what i wanted and to be real, its caused so so much turmoil, but the love that it produced was worth the wait.

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What's the reasons? I'd really wanna hear if you wanna share. The reasons you want to break up with the person

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I'm grateful! Thanks for the story and I hope you the best

Those are valid reasons. Honestly, she should be with someone who speaks her love language and you should be with someone who speaks yours.

Similarly: sitting inside all the time and growing incapable of love at all.

Damn. This one is for me. Thanks!

The whole going back to being alone is scary.

I stayed with a woman who abused the hell out of me because I was too scared to be alone again.

I'm really sorry to hear that

So much this. Was in two Meh LTRs before I met my wife. Those seemed never-ending, and soul deadening. The last 20 years with my wife have literally zipped by. We've had a goddamn blast together.

Life is -- literally -- too short to spend with the wrong person.

holy fucking shit yes

I've been in a committed relationship for almost 2 years that's consistently been "Unicorns shitting rainbows". I didn't find it until I'd been in an unhappy marriage for 10 years.

I wholeheartedly second this. Don't stay in something lame because it's all you think you're going to get.

Sunk cost fallacy

Ask yourself: am I/can I grow as a person in this relationship or does it confine me?

I don't even understand how people who aren't interested in each other even get in relationships in the first place. How the hell does someone even let that happen?

They'd rather be with ANYONE than be alone.

Can't express how much I want to agree with this but that habit is a bitch to break if you've been really insecure most of your life.

It's proven to be 100% true for me

Read this as “staying in a meth relationship.” Don’t do that either.

Serious question: how do you know if it’s meh or not? How do you know you’re not a person who’s just never satisfied with anyone?

I've been with my husband for a decade. I look forward to seeing him/talking to him every single day. He is the best partner I could possibly imagine in everything from doing fun things, to taking care of our son, to discussing that really cool thing I read the other day. He makes my life more interesting, more fun, more stable, and just better in general. If the person you're with doesn't make your life better in some way, what's the point?

Better yet don't get into a relationship if it's just "Meh".

Or even worse, staying in a bad relationship

Getting fat

I am 35 and fat and people are disgusted by me and hate me. No one sits next to me on the bus and when they have to their revulsion is palpable

I never thought I would let myself go but I did.

I’m miserable with myself.

Take care of yourself or someday, you’ll be just like me.

Step 1 starts today.

You're only 35 you can still turn your life around. You can be miserable for the rest of your life or go out there and make the best of it. I might sound like some crappy motivational speaker but you're still relatively early if you start now.

Why do you act like this is some incurable disease. CHANGE IT. It will be incredibly difficult, but it will be worth more than you can imagine.

/r/keto

I’m serious. It helped me immensely. Just take a look.

I was going to say this. Keto is super legit for people who are super overweight. There are tons of success stories from people just like OP, including me and my brother, who lost 40 and 100 pounds.

Take up juijitsu man I’ve seen it work wonders for people’s obesity. Plus it’s fun once you start learning and get your first tap.

Starting bjj/muay thai next week! Its gonna be a bitch to juggle work, gym time, jujitsu and relationship but lookin forward to it

Awesome man! Good luck 👍

Never too late to make a change bro

Try r/keto sidebar? It’s the best free sidebar

Maybe try /r/loseit or talk to your doctor? I hope you feel better about yourself.

My friend, that's a superficial thought.. I absolutely think you have no reason to be miserable because of what stupid people think of you

Well humans are very social animals. Almost? all our behaviors can be linked to our survival waaay back, when what other people thought of you was pretty important.

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Take advantage man🖒.

I’m 19 yrs old.

It still terrifies me to take action on things because I don’t know alot and I’m stuck in a loop because I feel other people (such as my parents) know who I generally am, and I don’t feel like I have a good judge of the ‘outside’ (jobs & careers etc.) world, while my parents and others have had many experiences.

Going to college without a plan or moving towards an actually marketable degree, just because it's what you think you should be doing because it's what everyone else is doing.

Too late :( This is advice for 17/18 year olds.

If you're still in college, you can switch majors.

Someone I know switched majors in their third year of college from bio to computer science. They had volunteered in hospitals and labs, TAed for chemistry courses, the works

Despite switching junior year, they'll only graduate a year late. They still have a full year to go, but already have a job lined up for after graduation

If you don't like what you're studying, change courses. It may cost an extra year or two and its corresponding tuition, but it'll be worth it in the long run

Now, I'm about to be a Junior, and I actually like what I'm doing!

But what if I didn't like ANY majors? I know that's how I felt before I found this major just a few months ago. I feel like there are certainly other people that feel the same.

What would you recommend then?

I'd recommend them to figure out what kind of life and career they would be happy living, then figure out what steps they need to take get there

But what if I didn't like ANY majors?

I was like that. Entirely through college. Had no strong interest in any major and felt like I wasn't smart enough for many of them.

Now I'm a graduate with no strong interest in any field and feel like I'm not smart enough for many of them. And with debt.

Who knows what lies ahead for me- could be great, as (some) wisdom has come with age, but just speaking to my past self at age 19, 20, 22, 24, when I didn't have a strong interest in any major, I think I would advise myself to:

  • seek ongoing therapy for depression, as depression can flatten your interests in everything [try therapy first before meds, then later on possibly a combination]

  • experiment in different fields, cool or lame ones; explore any interests you already have/new ones

  • make traveling some a priority, nothing you canwork if necessary to fund it

  • get it out of your head that you're destined to find the one true fated career for you; it doesn't exist, is a fable in your head; the closest you'll get to it is experimenting with things that aren't that, yet...

... instead of pursuing a major I had little interest in and staying inside on the internet for the next several years hoping inspiration would hit without the required life experience for it to.

I actually had the right idea in my junior year -- I put college on hold to get a better grasp on what I wanted to do. Unfortunately I only had half of the right idea, because I just spent that time working at a dead-end job instead of exploring my interests and the world. Lost 2 years to that.

This isn't meant as a pessimistic answer or sob story, just sharing real experience. I don't consider myself a lost cause, even though sometimes it feels that way I think I'm waking up more and more. Just throwing out some thoughts for the younger bucks (I'm still in my 20s so I don't think I'm old enough to use "bucks" yet, but I did it anyway).

I’m on my first year of college and I already switched my major like three times. At first I was kind of annoyed at myself from switching so many times...

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It thins the herd of competition. If you're a cynical POS like I am, it's easy to look at how things work and go, "ah, genius, set people up to fail and you won't have to worry about as much competition."

Then, if that fails, which it kind of has since there are way more opportunities for people to go to college now, even if they really shouldn't, just require three years' experience for any job in the field. That weeds the rest of the people out, with the exceptions of people with great support networks who can work unpaid internships for years, or people who can get in via nepotism.

My GFs brother changed from History to Engineering his 4th year.

17 year old here. Fuck. I'm going into college without a plan.

17-18 yo still browse reddit amirite

I started back at community college 4 years ago, I was 32. I switched gears a later semester. It could happen to you!

Well don't go back to school without a plan. So many people get graduate degrees and wind up in the same place as someone with a bachelor's, but with lots more debt

Another point to add: If you don't like your course drop out. I wish I had, maybe I'd have a job in my previous field by now

Also, don't take what your academic adviser says as holy writ. His/her best interest may not always be yours. Part of their job is to keep people enrolled in their college / department / majors so that they don't lose funding.

This. Advisers today are trained to keep you on track and keep you from taking any classes that don't directly pertain to the degree you picked on a whim in your junior year of high school.

Fuck that. Take classes that interest you. I mean, control your costs, take classes at the local cc if you can, but if your major bores you or you hate it, quit that bitch in a second. Do what you want to do. It's your whole life, don't get trapped on one track so some idiot adviser can click off some checkbox on a goddam screen.

If I could upvote you 100 times, I would. This was the single biggest mistake of my college career and I graduated with a degree that was marginally applicable for anything other than going to vet school. 18-22 year old me never questioned what good the degree would be if I didn’t get accepted to vet school, or if it was possible to get into vet school with a different major as long as I took the proper pre-requisites. Always ask questions and never be afraid to voice your concerns.

I met with my adviser in senior year, because I had to in order to graduate. I don't recall the meeting being particularly enlightening.

Honestly the college advisors at my college would turn people away if it wasn't for the fact there isn't much choice

My academic adviser was a top bloke. I decided I didn't enjoy my course, so I went to him with every intention of dropping out. I expected to walk in there and have him give me a tonne of spiel about why I should stay, my potential etc.

Nope. Stephen straight up told me "if that's what you want, don't waste your time staying." We talked through why I didn't like it, how it was making me depressed and how much I hated life there, and he said it made sense to leave. Not once did he try to make me stay, and I've been immensely thankful for it since. He was truly acting in my best interests, gave me all the forms I needed to fill in and gave me some solid advice for the future- "if it's not what you want, leave. Staying is how you end up like me." He didn't like his job as he told me, but stayed because he had to put food on the table. I was young, I had options. He wished me luck, and 10 minutes later I had withdrawn from my course.

Thank you Stephen. We never saw eye to eye while I was at university, but you were my hero on my last day.

This. My brother was advised to take a class because the counselor was trying to get enough enrollment for the class to be funded, else the class would have been cancelled. It was not in my brother's best interest to take said class.

I got super lucky with this, looking back my dumb ass should have dropped and switched majors years ago (I was a dumb 20-22 year old) but I didn't and ended up meeting the woman I'm gonna marry. Still switched, still about to graduate in a major I really like and hopefully get a job before grad school, but fuck that stress and miserable few years, also loans... Fuck the loans.

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No problem. It was Social Work, so it was very stressful at times. Although maybe rewarding at the very first. But after a while I came to the conclusion that I would not want to spend my days taking care of people that I was trying to escape from. The ungratefulness, the uncertainty, the violence, the stress are examples of why I hated it. Especially with a 40k salary and the sanctimonious peers. Working 40 years in a crumbling building the goverment doesn't pay any mind to, trying to pick up the pieces and try to make something out of a miserable, broken life is not something that I wanted to do. But I respect social workers a whole lot more now. I don't know how they do it. But it definitely isn't for me.

I'm graduating in a couple of months, picked my course at 17 thinking it seemed mildly interesting (which it has been) but went for an interview recently for a graduate job in that field and I've realised that I'm not suited towards it at all. Worried that I've wasted 4 years on a degree that hasn't gotten me any closer to a career I'd be interested in.

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The program all together

I think any degree will have courses you don't like, though. I think there's something to be said for having the capacity to plough through something that you find difficult/uninteresting.

I think there's something to be said for having the capacity to plough through something that you find difficult/uninteresting.

I did this and its a regret

I finished my boring first degree before taking on another in a field I'm actually passionate in. Glad my parents could support.

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I think if you don't know what exactly you are interested in it can be worth while doing your associates degree at a community college. You can take a bunch of different classes and discover what excites you without spend as much as you would at a 4 year school.

To add to this, go to trade school. I'm personally not a tradesman kind of guy. I have a degree in business and I'm working toward getting licensed to teach, but tradesmen are in demand. They can be laborious and frustrating, I'm sure, but you can make really good money really fast by working a trade. And I've gotta feeling that being a plumber, or an HVAC person, or a carpenter, or an electrician is a lot more fulfilling to the soul than sitting behind a desk in an office all day.

$100/hr and I'll do just about anything.

Anything you say?

Holy shit, is that really the pay?

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That's an awesome pay, but yeah, it's not a very stable job.

I believe the average is $50k/year (I feel like the national average is always grossly underestimated), so busy or not on the daily, you're gonna sit pretty for not much schooling needed.

No. But it is good. Most plumbers make about $30-40 an hour consistently.

This. I’ll be 41 when I graduate. I did attempt college when I was younger, but got pushed in a direction simply because it was expected and I genuinely didn’t have a clue what to study. Obviously, I didn’t finish although did end up still working in the industry which led to faster promotion and enabled me to travel and work. I’m now studying for a career I genuinely love and while it won’t make me rich I actually can’t wait to graduate.

How is it that cheap? I'm just through my first year of school and I've already had to pay $23,000. College in the US is insane

It depends where you go. I'm in Florida and I've racked up $37k with my time here. I 100% agree though college here is way too expensive.

you can afford it, or flat out pay for it

Haha.

I can afford it because of the GI Bill, but most people can't "afford" college.

That's really the point though. If the social aspect is something you need, better make sure you've got the money

But I need the degree to earn more money

That delicious chapter 33.

2k for 2 classes? Where the fuck do you go thats cheap as dirt.

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To be honest buddy, i mean to each their own, do your associates on the cheap as long as the credits transfer, then move into a reputable university/college to finish up. Different ways to slice and dice it but tldr, try to save your money. Im 31 and still paying loans off.

Only half way done.

How many 18 year olds know what they want to do with their life? How are they going to figure it out without trying college? Working at Burger King won't teach you.

I agree only 1/3 of people should go to college, but if you are in the top 1/3, you are wasting your life not going to college. It's too hard to make money without a degree today.

Go to college, take classes in what interests you, and then figure out what you want to do. You know so little of the world just from HS.

It's not that hard to make money without a degree. Look at the crazy profitability of anyone in the trades, with comparatively minimal debt, and often the ability to start their own business before long and make their own hours.

I'd advise if you ARE going to go to college without a clue about what you want to do, you should go to a community college, rather than a private one, where the costs will be substantially lower, until you figure it out.

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It's hard work for good pay. There's no argument there. But typically, by the time you're in your 60s, at least in the experience of my family friends who are in it, you've taken on some apprentices/journeymen who do most of the work, while you supervise the work being done.

Depends on who you work for. My father and I do concrete together as partners, do very well for both of our selves, have lots of time off, and never do anything that will put undue wear and tear on ourselves. There are tons of small-time contractors out there that are not in the business of hurting themselves or their employees. Huge companies and union jobs, yeah, you'll practically be running around the jobsite otherwise you'll get fired. But there is good, safe trade work out there that pays very well once you learn it.

I did this. One should start preparing as soon as they're in 11th grade at least... if they want to go to college. I didnt know what I wanted to do or even had a plan at 18 years old. Fuck, I didnt even know that I had to take my general eds before taking my major courses. I wasted 3 years of life working a part time job/going to college instead of going straight to a full time 40h job like I wanted to. But my mom wanted me to go to college. Im not going to college now btw.

Highschool sucked for me. I didn't have the resources to even know that I needed to take specific courses to go to my program of choice. My highschool sucked at informing us. My parents didn't help me at all so I ended up taking Phys Ed, Drama, easy, fun courses like that and realized that barely anything in college will accept me. Had to go through a Gen Ed course, and in one year I had multiple university level credits to get into almost any program. Makes me feel like highschool is useless.

My highschool was great at letting me know what I needed class wise and grade wise for looking at universities. I feel bad that you didn't have the same good experience.

I mean In Canada college is cheap and students go to continue "thinking" about what they want to do lol.

A lot of people advise to not jump to the 40h a week job right after highschool as then you get in the habit of making money and don't want to go back even when you think of a field you want. (Just another point of view)

I did the 3 year college and ended up not even doing my field so who am I to talk lol.

Yea I still wouldnt call a couple grand a semester "cheap" for college in Canada. Maybe compared to the states sure but I only met a couple people who said they were only in college just to do something while they tried to figure out what they liked to do.

I was paying roughly 500 + books. That's why our schooling system has highschool college and university

What the fuck did you take for 500 + books?? And where? That's basically the price of an individual class, or two classes if you took languages where I went to college.

Business Administration & Marketing in Montreal, QC at one of the top colleges. It's not expensive where I live, college is literally made cheap(ish) so people aren't killing their pockets trying to just figure out what they want to do. I mean after 3 years still adds up to like 5K ish with books etc but not making you in debt for half your life.

Well that explains it. Its a little misleading to say college is cheap in Canada when specifically refering to CÉGEP, which is only for one province. Isn't the entire point of that to transition from grade 11 to university? Because for the rest of Canada its about 4x as expensive for the same tittle (solely based on anecdotal, just have friends who went business all over and they all say it costs 2k a semester usually)

Ya I guess It is misleading I should say in Quebec then :D

But I honestly think in comparison to US, Canada's schooling does fall under "cheap". Say 4 years average for uni? 16K in 4 years doesn't seem too expensive vs some student debts that I've seen.

Even more reason to love La Belle Province. Yea agreed, the US is insane with student debt, basically like 60k for 4 years.

La Belle Province

Oh god, stop, the cravings are real and I'm trying to be a healthy kid.

edit: that's a restaurant if you didn't know. lol

College and University are two very different things in Canada. But in the states college almost always refers to the equivalent of University.

That being said University is not cheap in Canada. It’s just relatively cheaper than college in the states.

I was just talking about this with someone the other day. I didn’t realize what I wanted to do with my life until I had graduated with a degree I wish I hadn’t done. How is anyone at 18 years old supposed to know what they want to do with the rest of their life? Don’t get me wrong, college is important, but surely there’s something we can do to help high school kids decide early on what they’re best suited for.

Also, I’m gonna have hell of a hard time recommending college to my kids one day. I fucking hated it. The school part. Not the drinking and doing whatever I want part. That part was awesome.

Pretty spot on, I was going to go but backed out right before I put in my deposit, I’m now delivering pizza and making the same amount of money my dad does as a machinist, you’ve just got to look at what you do well and find out how to make money from it.

Can’t emphasize this enough, also ask for help. If you have siblings, friends, or just counselors. Also first two years are usually for your generals and AA, ask college counselors not high school ones. Go to forums to see different opinions on schools and majors, etc. don’t try to go through it alone

People should contextualise their answers. I feel like this applies much more in countries where university fees are dumb high, rather where you can get a degree for free.

I'm not saying to go to college for the sake of doing so, but in some countries it's less risky to choose the wrong thing, understand your error and switch.

Not having a plan depends on the person, I've never had a plan but just gone with what seemed fun or interesting at the time and it's all worked out, had a great time at college, made lifelong friends, met my wife, got what most would say is a non marketable degree and somehow make a living out of it.

lol when I'm almost graduating and none of the above applies.

You're definitely the exception then, at least based on what I've both read and heard from friends/high school classmates/the rest of Reddit.

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thank you for this

I'm currently studying physics basically just for the sake of it, but I don't have further plans

This made me feel better!

People can make any degree work for them. Getting a job is all about selling yourself and your qualifications (but not being a cocky shit while doing so). Think about all the analytical thinking you have to do in physics - that's your selling point. Break down what you're actually learning/being trained to do/how to think - not necessarily the things you're learning. F=MA is neat and applicable is some fields, but knowing that you can switch that formula around to figure out the mass given the force and acceleration is what you've learned. You can look at problems and solve them counter-intuitively using clever thought processes.

physics can have a lot of applicable skills in the science field. you could also leverage it with an MBA and still work in the science field. talk to your career center and see what they say. You'd be surprised with where STEM careers can take you.

I graduated a year ago with a political science degree and have not been able to find a job in that time. Hundreds of applications, several interviews. Jobs want STEM degrees. I've been applying to food service lately.

I just didn't fancy having a real job and thought college would be a chance to party for a few years (which was true) plus it allowed me to delay making any real decisions.

Understandable. A lot of people go to college for that reason and go tens of thousands of dollars into debt for the privilege. You're basically going deep into debt to take a multi-year vacation. Glad to hear it worked out well for you in your specific case!

You must live in a nicer area with decent job opportunities

Location doesn't really make much difference as I'm self employed and work from home, could do it anywhere with a good internet connection really.

Exactly the same for me.

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On the other end of that, having a minor in something completely unrelated isn't necessarily a bad thing. For job hunting straight out of school, it can be advantageous.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with this. Your 20s are one of the few times you can afford to truly pursue your interests. It's important to be interested in what you pursue your degree in and use college as a chance to grow just as much as a chance to get a "credential". Don't let others decisions influence your decisions, you'll just be another cog in the machine of people that look back and regret what they've done as their hearts weren't truly in it.

True, not to mention (as long as you don't graduate in debt) you can always return later for another more marketable degree if that's what you think is necessary further down the line.

I disagree. I do appreciate your sentiment, but if you have to go $100K+ into debt to do it (as many do), and wind up with no degree or meaningful career prospects on the other end, can you really afford it?

You wind up handicapping yourself for the majority of your adult life before you even begin it with massive student loan debt for no other reason than you're essentially choosing to defer your entrance into the adult world.

The way I see it, you basically have two options. You can take the much higher risk approach, and try to do something you love for a career that may not be marketable, or you can pick a career that is highly marketable and let it facilitate you doing the things you love as a hobby.

I'm a big fan of psychology and group dynamics. But I'm damn good at electrical engineering, so I've gone with that and I do enjoy certain parts of it, but more importantly, it's allowed me to make a living and have enough of a disposable income to buy and read books on psychology and group dynamics. Had I gone the psychology route, I'd either A) be working at a menial job that doesn't require a degree because a psych degree isn't that marketable, or B) I'd be substantially deeper in debt because I would've had to go get a PhD in the topic.

That's so astounding that some people pay 100k for university while it's 100% free for me (Well I pay lots of taxes but it doesn't hurt the same way as 100k debt)

While I agree with this from an economic perspective, I don't think it leads to real fulfilment/happyness. Although I agree, you have to make a living and your degree should provide a credential so it's not a massive waste of money in the short term. To be successful you need to be good at what you do, to be happy you have to enjoy what you do. It's important to consider both in your twenties as you have (hopefully) a long life ahead of you.

Man, I'll be getting my bachelors degree in less than a year and at this point I have lost almost all interest in the field I am studying (IT and business), at this point I am just grinding it out because I've gotten too far to drop out. Thankfully no loans or anything but I don't know what to do with my life afterwards.

Ffffucking this.

A lot of people were thrown into college because it was the "thing to do" One of my ex's families threatened to disown him or beat him if he didn't go to school.

Damn, that's freakin' insane! College isn't right for everyone.

Seriously this. I was raised by very uneducated parents who pushed it into my brain that's what I had to. Ended up with a biology degree and $60k in debt - since you know, it wasn't their dime why should they care what it costs? And I mean, teenagers have impeccable knowledge about finances... Needless to say, the cycle of continuing education and rising debt is still turning to try to make a profitable living.

Where abouts in the country are you? A bio degree in the northeast will fetch you some seriously decent money.

I was in the Midwest but recently moved to the east coast. Currently I'm enrolled in grad school, so hopefully things will work out!

This hits so close to home. I'm only 22 and just made my third swap in majors finally settled on one that I want instead of being pushed towards one, but it still doesn't undo the debt from the past couple of years. If anyone reads this do what will make you happy as long as you can get by on it. As the saying goes "If you are doing what you love you will never work a day in your life."

I would add that it's much more cost effective to take care of prerequisites at a community college first (at least those you can transfer to college), rather than during college. You'll be in less debt and you'll have more time to do more interesting things.

I was about to do this but I'm slowly backing out and tearing myself apart inside.

I thought because I like writing and teaching that being an English professor would be cool. Got my associates from a local community college and was feeling swell.

Now, I visted a college and wanted to die. I'm questioning what I want out of life, where to live, what to do, who I'll know, and on and on.

Reading this about 5 years too late lol....

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What do you think you'd do if you don't go to college?

Don't stay in just because of societal pressures, its worst than just dropping out. That said, go for a trade school and pick a track that gives you access to internships with local trade unions. Why? It makes it easier to join a union and earn more money. Be that for a while, while reading like crazy about everything and I mean everything (Business, physics, engineering, medicine, computer science, and/or history). Don't fall into debt. Let yourself mature. And when you're truly ready to go back for college study a field you feel is marketable and matches your interest.

Literally everyone in my graduating high school class is studying engineering in college. Which is great, except for the fact that at least 50% of them are far too stupid for such a hard degree. They just declare “aerospace engineering” because well that’s just what you do. I think it’s scary how many of them will probably drop out halfway through.

Tons of people from my HS class went into engineering, many of them at Purdue. Very few of them were actually cut out for it. Their reasoning? Money. That's it.

Yeah. Engineering is an awesome degree with a ton of earning potential, for sure, but if it was easy, no one would be making that much money from it. I don’t know why it’s just assumed by people my age that any degree other than engineering is just a waste of 4 years and thousands of dollars.

This for sure. Take time to really think about what you want to do. Look at trade schools because odds are you can make way more money working with your hands. And if you're set on college start at a community one 1st. You still get the same degree when you transfer and your debt will be much lower.

My dad has preached this to to my 3 brothers before me and preached it to me. I have 2 years done at a community college and have just registered for my first class back in about a year and a half with a good plan of attack. I'm so ready for what my path is going towards and would recommend this way of going about life to anyone!!

I really worry about this. I have a friend who is in college and she just... isn't that good at it. And to make matters worse, she chose a career path where she will HAVE to get a masters to get anywhere in the field. I really don't know if she'll be able to get into a program like that, with her grades. But all of her relatives went to college and did well, so that's the route she went even though there's other things she would be good at.

This also depends on where you are/who you are and how much college will cost you.

While you may end up in a job that you could have got without college, or by working hard with an evening course there's something about the experience for some people that you couldn't get another way.

I blame our education system, you have to pick a future with very little knowledge of what type of jobs you'll be doing. I think the last year or two of school before college should be training programs, such as one month in construction, one month behind a desk, one month being a waiter, ect. ect.

same with marriage, and buying a house.

While in general I agree getting those first two years out of the way is a good idea if you can do it on the cheap.

I completely lucked out in this regard. I had no idea what I wanted to be until the end of my sophomore year in college and I ended up falling into my dream job. I'm far luckier than I deserve to be.

Absolutely. I’m 26, I have a BS but not as specific/specialized one and have been jealous of my friends who have engineering/nursing degrees. Tips: if the degree your getting doesn’t have your future job title in it, it’s time to start thinking about a plan B.

That being said; college for me was full of learning, a lot of it outside the classroom, and I would not trade the lessons I’ve learned.

You mean that psych bachelors isn’t going to cut it?!

Also to add: if you like art or music, take lessons and/or an ensemble. I would recommend not majoring in these unless you want to teach it. Major in something that will give you a stable career, but take lessons on the side. No one is going to care about all the work you put into second semester music history.

As a music major, no. If you really love music and want to be a (classical) musician, major in music. You will not get anywhere near the level of training or experience taking lessons on the side. I think a bigger mistake is spending tons of money on college and majoring in something you're not passionate about because "music isn't a practical major".

Marketing degree is deceptively unmarketable

Yup. I’m 19 now and I’ve spent a year at university to realise that it is not what I want to do. I’m lucky that I get student Finace and I was able to quickly think about what I wanted to do and if university was the right path for me.

After some research, I realised, yes university is for me but I was just on the wrong course. Starting my new course come September where I will be guaranteed a well paid job to be able to pay it all back. So glad I was able to see where I was going wrong before it was too late.

Going to college cause you're not sure what you want to do isn't that bad of an idea outside the US, anywhere it doesn't completely break your bank.

What if you believed you were following your dreams but realized you hated the internship so badly you had to stop the whole career path but it was your senior year and now you're in a job where you can't get your masters degree so you can't move forward in your life and you're scared now?

What if I went because it's a good way of moving to a new city, making new friends and fending for myself?

This, at least, is something I got right.

I didn't do anything else, granted, but at least I'm doing nothing while not in debt.

Think that time is infinite. It gets faster when one gets older and as soon as you know it you hit your 30s.

I am 61. I swear I was 24 the day before yesterday. It goes REALLY fast when you start turning 30.

I’m 27 and can’t believe how fast time is moving now. It really is so crazy how true this statement is. It gives me anxiety/a panic attack every time I think of how close I am to 30 and have fucking nothing to show for it. I mad such good money and blew it on stupid shit. I ended up with a bunch of auto immune diseases and now I can’t fucking work and am trying to live off disability. There’s a lot of times I have no food because I can’t afford to live.

...aaaand your 10-year high school reunion is coming up!

Me too... I'm about to be 26 in june. I've accomplished almost nothing... I can't even drive. It's depressing honestly. I have two half completed degrees, 60k in debt, and nothing to show for any of it. God I'm depressed.

Yup, growing up I always thought I’d have a home and kids by 25. I live in a basement apartment with no kids and became too disabled to work (physically) My bf doesn’t have any kind of job where he could work up to make better money so it’s like I have nothing to look forward to anymore and life is just racing by.

I'm only 18 and the years just seem to be getting shorter and shorter

It's really all about novelty. Novelty controls our perception of time. If we do the same routine every day, weeks pass in the blink of an eye.

How many times do you turn 30 again?

If you're a pornstar you just keep turning 29 over and over again...

And before you had your 18th birthday every two days.

There are still a few "69" days every so often but they're only temporary.

Is there anything you'd recommend to make it not feel as fast? Or just... Recommendations in general? Currently 25 and already feel like I was 18 just minutes ago.

Experience more new things. Human time is denoted by number and type of novel experiences. This is one of the reasons that your first decade seems to take forever and as you age time seems to accelerate. Even if you can't experience more new things all the time, be more mindful of your environment and the details of it.

This article talks about this phenomenon.

http://www.thebookoflife.org/how-to-lengthen-your-life/

I'm 20 and I think I was 16 just yesterday sometimes.

I'm 26 and I already have the feeling that time is flying past faster than I can handle.. Are you telling me it gets significantly worse? O_O

I also feel like recently my time is going faster. I try every day to remind myself that of course it's not really - what's changing is my perception of time. And I try to remind myself every day that the reason that it feels like time is going faster is the same reason that you can drive from one place to another and not remember the journey - I'm not paying attention to the little things. I'm doing the same thing every day.

You can 'extend' time, or at least your perception of time, by doing something every day that is different. Whether that's jumping out of a plane, or taking a different route to work, or just having a different freaking lunch - you need to do something which stops your mind working on auto-pilot and forces it to LOOK. And EXPERIENCE. And NOTICE. Because if not you'll go from one week from another, barely registering your own existence and (in the same way as your auto-pilot car journey) think 'how did I get here?'

Oh, and a gratitude journal (though corny) seriously helps with this because it causes you to look back and think about your day over again.

I'm 23 and FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

I feel old now!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It really does, doesn’t it? I remember hearing that but a year is nothing now but before it felt like an age

I know a lot of people who fucked up bad by marrying in their early 20s. I was one of them.

My cousin married at 19 recently to be with her army boyfriend. Threw away her full ride to college to live in the middle of nowhere. She had so much opportunity and she just threw it away like nothing.

When you're 19.....you're retarded

Source: was a retarded 19 year old

But she took AP classes and graduated top of her class and made the deans list her only year of college. She obviously knows everything. /s

God I wish I could just go back and stop my self from all the stupid shit I did when I was younger

We've all been there. Adults tried to tell us too, and we also ignored them. Now I know how frustrated I made my parents and family. I dread the days my boys turn 19. She will learn, the hard way because that's what she wants. But people will swoop in to save her, and that's also part of the problem.

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Ooooo what's a Jody??

‘In the United States Military cadences song by marching or running soldiers are often dubbed “Jodys” or “Jody calls”. This name “Jody” refers to a recurring civilian character, the soldier's nemeses, who stays home to a perceived life of luxury.’

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Oh he's her husband now. But I really want to ask.

r/amry might be able to help you

I married in my early 20s and don't regret it, although I also think staying single is a viable choice. It can be healthy to work out what you want for yourself, living on your own. Getting in and out of a lot of bad relationships/FWB/hookups is something I'm glad I didn't do, though.

How long you been married?

15 years

Parents married at 21 and 22. Lasted 24 years. You guys will probably be married your whole lives tho. I was just curious

It's cool. Also my husband is older than I am, was closer to 30 when we got married, so if one of us flakes out by turning into a completely different person, it's more likely to be me. :P

this gives me hope. 22yrs old, engaged friday. We were fuckbuddies and caught feelings. Best man in my life and he treats me better then I've ever been treated, and me him. Only issue is he's trans and I'm not 'out' lmao

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Weirdly it has been one for the hardest things for my wife and i. For awhile we felt like we had to be together constantly. Like we would be neglecting the other if we didn't do everything together.

Today I sat and watched a movie in my office and she watched a TV show in the living room. I made her dinner and went back to my movie. Then I went to bed (hooray insomnia).

It takes awhile to work things out, but that's marriage, right?

I feel like this’ll be the toughest part about adapting to marriage (I’m not married but my boyfriend and I have been together 6 years and are talking about it enthusiastically)

I’m sort of a hostess type, and love to entertain anyone in my vicinity with conversation, food, and/or affection if they’re someone I love, and will keep myself from working or sleeping if I’m interested enough in being around someone. I’ll stay up til 4am chatting with my mom if she’ll let me, I’ll never get anything done as a newlywed

I wouldn’t have agreed to marry my fiancé if we didn’t have this down, I have my friends and he has his, we get on with each other’s friends but we’re perfectly happy to go out without each other or stay in but in different rooms from each other.

Yep, I'll second that!

I actually appreciate reading comments like this. I have been with my boyfriend for 4 years, but am in my early 20s. We have been really slow to move forward with "big commitments" like moving in together, and marriage. AKA we've done neither lol. However, a LOT of my high school friends are getting engaged and married, and it makes me feel like I am behind somehow. So this is good to read.

At the same tike, if you guys agree that you want to move forward in your relationship, don't let some cynical redditor kill that.

The reason relationship advice is so sought after is that relationships are unique and individualized. No one can tell you what is right for your relationship, and that goes both ways.

You do you.

I appreciate that :) I think we both feel good about taking our time on this. I just often feel like we are doing something "wrong" because the relationships around me have moved much faster. So I suppose it goes both ways-- we shouldn't be influenced to speed up or slow down.

Me and my SO have been together for four years as well, and I am going to propose next month :). Moving at your own pace is great and we did the same. If your partner is your best friend, and you guys communicate well, you should be fine with the process of moving forward together towards those milestones. Just always work on growing together and on helping each other become stronger. Once you have made the commitment to walk with them through the ups and downs of life, the commitment of marriage will fall into place naturally. I also recommend looking at pre-marital counseling or class, it was something we enjoyed. Wish yall the best!

This is a sweet comment-- thank you!! I totally agree on premarital counseling/class. Me and my partner have already agreed to do one even though we aren't getting married very soon! Good luck on your proposal and future marriage :)

I'm 23 and getting married in 2 months. Been with my fiance for nearly 6 years. A lot went into our decision to get married, but the main thing for us is that we enjoy spending time with each other. We've been through multiple big life changes and traumas already, and we've come through stronger as a team. It's honestly not a decision for anyone else to make, although I'm aware it's easy to be optimistic about your own situation. It's incredibly easy to get bogged down in what the general mood on marriage and relationships at this age is, so just reflect on your own time. If you both feel ready, go for it.

People are still growing into the person they will eventually be. I married my hs sweetheart and it was a bumpy ride when every 3 years she was a different person with different friend groups and interests.

I was stupidly happy with her and we were practically soul mates, now I wouldn’t recognize her. People who get married in before their late 20s is just begging to be able to hear or say “you’re not the same person I married!”

Except people never stop changing? I'm sorry, I thought the whole point of marriage was a promise to grow and change together as a team, and support each other through each phase of life.

Minor changes. Growth. Not complete flip flopping on important values and re-establishing entire support networks. You want someone you can grow with, not someone who will be unrecognizable.

The point of divorce is irreconcilable differences. How do you think people get from deciding to get married and believing that the other person is the only and last person they’ll ever love? Maybe someone wasn’t honest, or maybe someone developed these differences along the way.

Unconditional love part of relationships is kinda the white whale. I can’t really speak for its existence or non. From what I see, that’s almost the downfall of a lot of relationships. People start to feel entitled and say “you should love and support me,” while being selfish and manipulative. Do enough damage and your partner will crumble and call it irreconcilable.

Ideally you want someone who will grow, adapt, problem solve, communicate, persevere, and remains in a major sense compatible. Kinda like a good teammate, like you said.

My friend from Primary school just got engaged... at 19, he was never the brightest guy but he isnt stupid so lets see how this plays out

thats just called fucking up bad. nothing wrong with getting married and having kids in early 20s.

THIS! brain isnt fully developed until 25. tbh i laugh at all the people i see getting married in early-mid twenties

I think it's unreasonable to laugh at everyone doing this. Yes a lot of people rush into marrying. Some don't though. Like my fiancé and myself. He is 25, I am almost. We've been together since we were 14, bought our own place at 20 and have both established careers while still bettering our education. I don't see how us getting married at 24/25 is laugh worthy.

It’s not laugh worthy. You’re on the edge to where it could be responsible. My experience is that people change so much in their early and mid 20s. I responded elsewhere on this sub thread, but from my experience, people transform and change a lot during this time until they find the person they want to be.

I was with my ex wife for 8 years before we got married. Practically soul mates. Stupidly happy. But she changed every 3 years or so with new friends, new interests, and new values. I hung on for the ride, until the values changed to exclude me and got burned good.

Getting married in this timeframe is begging to say or hear “you’re not the person I married!” by your late 20s.

If you’re truly solid, have emotional intelligence, communication skills, faced and overcame some gnarly adversity, and you’re both done changing and feel confident in the person you are individually, go for it!

Also.... I watched a lot of friends practically get married because they wanted to wear the dress in Instagram pics, so that’s still going on in the mid 20s.

I completely agree that people change every few years. But whether I'm 20 25 or 30. I'm still going to change and so is he. I am nowhere near the same I was even two years ago. People always change so if you can't support your partner while they change, how will you ever stay in the same relationship for more than a few years?

I'm not stupid and know that years down the road he's "not going to be the same person I married". But shouldn't that be the joy in it also? You get to watch this person evolve continually and they get to watch you do the same.

From my experience, and looking around, it really slows down by the late 20s. And the changes are much less radical. In your 20s you get used to the person you are when your parents and teachers aren’t helping you grow. This is the silence where most people start to decide what’s important to them and find out who they are going to be for the rest of their lives noncareerwise. And there’s some struggle and adjustment that happens inside the individual. You practically define the meaning and purpose of your life.

People can do this earlier than mid 20s. Some people do it later. I wouldn’t roll the dice before late 20s. And while you might be solid in the foundation of who you are and what you want from life, your partner might not be.

You’re absolutely right that the joy and beauty of a relationship is experiencing the growth and changes together. What I’m kinda trying to warn people of is that there are individual changes that can be devastating. It’s dangerous to commit to someone and promise uncompromising loyalty and unconditional love, if in a couple years they change into something completely incompatible. It could come in the form of abuse, neglect, an extreme shift in values, or toxic external relationships.

Relationships get stronger by growing together. I haven’t been in many relationships that have lasted less than a year. I’m a habitual longterm guy. Growing and experiencing the challenges and changes in a relationship is what it’s all about, but you need to grow and change together. Also, to relate to a term you use evolve. You want to evolve together.

Tie yourself to your partner and swim across a lake. If your partner decides to transform into a cinderblock you better hope you can transform into one too, or a fish at the least and quick. Otherwise you’re gonna find yourself untying yourselves. That’s what it’s like if you get married while still figuring out what you are. Later on, the changes are less dramatic- like maybe deciding to do backstroke instead of breaststroke or aiming for a different beach on the other side- things you can adapt to and deal with and be happy with. Family and friends that shock me that are older than 27 are very few and far between compared to younger adults.

You will find when you are 30 that you’re much more the same person when you were 25 than comparing the person you were at 25 looking back at your 22 year old self.

But do NOT take relationship advice from anyone. I’m not giving you advice on what to do. I’m telling people to be careful, not what to do. I know exactly one couple that got married at or before 23 that’s still together and both genuinely happy. Nobody knows your relationship and your potential like you do together and you should always do what brings you joy :)

You dont even know what life is like without them!!!! you have had no chance to experience life alone and find what you truly want and yearn for in life. are you from a small town? religous upbringing?

If they are happy, who are you to try and say "you don't even know what life is like without them"?

This mentality is gross and wrong.

thaddeusblunt has a point even though he/she comes off a bit intrusive and rude.

Thanks. All these people downvoting me cracks me up. Just shows how insecure they are

if you are genuinely happy then more power to you. never truly being alone to find YOUR happiness is a mistake imo. i firmly believe that humans are not wired to be monogamous and spending your whole life with one person has shaped you while you have never had time to shape and grow yourself/alone. just my 2 cents.

Just because I was never truly alone, in your words, doesn't mean I haven't been find my own happiness. If you can't find your own happiness while in a relationship maybe that relationship was the problem, because I've been able to do it all these years.

I’m sort of with you on this. I do believe in monogamy, but I think you can only appreciate that after having other relationships that have ended. I think it’s incredibly dumb to marry the first person you’re with. I can’t imagine not having the experiences I’ve had in relationships and outside of them. I know more about myself than I ever did growing up and that comes from both being in relationships and being alone. Plus, I mean chances are they’ll get divorced and where will that leave them? With absolutely no experience being with others. Idk, I know a couple that’ve been together since they were teens and they make it work. Still though, I just couldn’t imagine being married to my first girlfriend.

I’m going to third you guys on this. I’ll join the downvote train lol. I don’t think a couple who made it to 24 and 25 are necessarily doomed. I do think there are a million factors that do need to be addressed that normal couples who’ve had more than one adult relationship have had.

I married my hs sweetheart. We were together 8 years and the marriage lasted 7. I was stupidly happy and it was a very happy relationship... or so I thought. It turned out we both sucked at communicating and conflict resolution. We didn’t argue because we didn’t voice any of our frustrations to each other. We both changed so much. I referred to there being 3 year periods where she had a completely different group of friends, interests, and values. I was reliably stagnant.

When you “find happiness,” so young and don’t experience other relationships you risk (not inevitable) not having a solid foundation of learning to prevent fuck ups. If you have the relationship skills, maturity, and you’re confident in the person you are and your values remaining solid then go for it.

Having failed relationships is remarkably invaluable. It’s not the only way. It’s risky. And if I was advising people I’m just saying to think about every angle and get rid rid of all doubt. Don’t just do it because “we’ve been together 100 years,” or “I’m happy now,” or “they make me happy.” All of those reasons crumble the moment you find out they led a double life behind your back for months, either having an affair or simply telling everyone how horrible you are as a partner. That’s why people want you to be happy and confident with yourself. Many of us weren’t. And I was super naive even with years beyond years of “relationship,” under my belt.

I didn’t mess up financially, but this was my terrible fuck up in my 20s and I would save my worst enemy from making that mistake.

We don’t know your dynamics. It’s unfair to pass judgment. Having relationships to learn from helps a lot. You’ve got some hurdles to overcome that normal couples don’t have to deal with. If you can maintain compatibility and commitment for the rest of your life, you’ve won.

I can’t tell you enough how I was blindsided by my ignorance and how much of myself I lost in that divorce. How happy I was and enjoyed my relationship up until the day she wanted a divorce. Had we both had other relationships we would have been better for each other and ourselves. I can see toxic habits from a mile away and I know how to communicate without being manipulative now.

So there are really a few things I’m hearing people warn you of. Make sure you’re independently happy and stable with who you are. If you both are that’s not a problem. Make sure you have gained relationship skills from somewhere. You both need the skills.

If you’re really curious about your chance of a successful marriage, read the first couple chapters about contempt from John Gottman’s book The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work. It’s really good, I promise. And I don’t buy the whole “Love Languages,” thing, but that’s a really important concept to understand if you’re gonna keep someone happy enough to keep making you happy for an extended time.

Godspeed.

You’re one of the few with a brain on this thread!!! Everyone downvoting us cuz its not what they want to hear and them doing that truly shows their insecurities. Well said friend. Hope all is well

I am definitely aware that we've had issues that needed to be worked through and there will be more. I do appreciate your advice, one of the few people who have said something of value.

basically my thoughts, well put

but i am genuinely curious if you have a religious upbringing and grew up in a small town?

My wife and I got together when we were 17 and 16. We're 25 and 24 now.

She was brought up atheist, from a like 200k person town near San Francisco.. I'm an ex-Muslim, from Toronto (Major City in Canadaland).

Extremely happily married, AMA if you want.

What are your tips on finding a quality partner? What are some things to look for? How can you tell if someone boring or just stable?

Hey, great questions. I'll try to keep it as short as I can and you can throw any extra questions my way if you'd like.

Important things:

  1. In my opinion it's best to work on yourself; When you match the criteria you're seeking, that's when you should seek others.
  2. Watch out for the obvious red flags (Careful of Narcissists)
  3. Look for an emotionally mature person, or someone almost there. A Couple Articles for you.. ONE TWO
  4. I personally believe in psychological intimacy, if you do too then I think it's best you find someone who agrees on it as well. (It's pretty much just completely opening up to your partner. This means no matter how embarrassing, shameful or even disgusting.. I mean everything...

I think if you can read between these lines then you'll be able to tell if someone is stable over boring.

But I don't want to judge or pry. But I learnt a long time ago that victims of abuse victims keep getting themselves into new abusive relationships because they found healthy ones to be too boring.

Wow...thank you for the thoughtful reply and article links. I just read through them and it was very helpful- especially the chart on emotionally immature vs. mature. I agree with you on the psychological intimacy point: I've had a relationship in the past where that was present and I look for that in future partners. I didn't know there was a term for that special combo of openness, trust, and honesty.

I think I might be guilty of the pattern you mentioned in your last paragraph. I don't know what it is about convoluted personalities that attracts me. Maybe curiosity? How did you learn that victims find healthy relationships too "boring" if you don't mind sharing?

How can you tell if a relationship with someone is worth pursuing? Did you ever doubt your own ability to pick a healthy partner/relationship?

Also, did you experience what the other posters here mentioned about growing into different people every few years from 16 to 25? How did you guus navigate that change without feeling like you should see other people?

Even better questions.

So... I'll be honest. This is all anecdotal and my opinion.

  1. We never grew into different people... I personally believe that if you get with someone that young and try to work things out that you can only grow together.

  2. I am very stubborn and always told my wife that I wanted us to come to the same conclusion on things (eventually). So I try to keep an open mind and so does she and we just debate. I would say we've probably changed each others opinions equally.

  3. I've always wondered and thought about if I should be with someone else and if my relationship would work till the end. It's what I want right? So when there was a huge argument I would get insecure and lash out in my own mind and sometimes it would project and hurt our relationship... My wife on the other hand has never doubted our relationship; and I'm the only person she's been with. I think this comes down to just a difference in people. But both of us have and had a lot of problems, and lots of therapy and self-help is fixing that.. It's transcending into our relationship.

If you're constantly willing to work on things, they will only get better.

Q: How can you tell if a relationship with someone is worth pursuing?

A: I think a lot of times it can be a slow process, and many times a manipulating one. But you have to weave out and figure out the other person and ask yourself if you see it ending with what you would consider to be a perfect relationship.

Q: Did you ever doubt your own ability to pick a healthy partner/relationship?

A: Honestly, yes. I was always worried and curious about what could or should be. I think all of that doubt disappears once you reach certain emotional maturity and psychological intimacy with your partner. It's why I lead with those examples.. But there are also tons of other ways to better yourself and your relationship. Every step counts..

Thanks for the thoughtful reply yet again :) I calmed my anxieties about finding a suitable partner. It helps a lot to hear your perspective- definitely more mature than my own. I'm too idealistic lol

I think you may just be anxious about the unknown. You are worrying about an end goal when you should just enjoy the journey.

You also now have the tools to understand what makes a good relationship. This knowledge helped you conquer some of that 'unknown' and it only took a bit of reading.

Even if you find a partner who isn't "ideal", remember that you can also broaden their mind with this knowledge and you can both work to being ideal for each other.

Keep trying and enjoy the journey :P

Are you my mom or work as a therapist?? I love you u/KeepAnOpenMindPlease. That's exactly it: I do focus too much on the end goal and have too high of expectations. I'm really glad you took the time to reply to my comments. I'm going back to the readings you linked and have the emotionally immature/mature chart downloaded on my phone. Will (try) to focus more on the journey and enjoy :D

Haha thanks.

I just know what it's like to go through tough and confusing times and I care to help.

I'm always here if you need guidance or someone to speak with.

And we could always meet at a timmies if things get too tough lol.

Read that book I sent you in PM. It will help.

Oh I didn't even notice the PM ;_; hahaa Thanks!! I'll reach out if I need guidance or advice again (probably will lol).

If this was directed at me, no I did not have any religious upbringing. And I grew up in multiple different places.

What difference does it make that they've been together all the time? It's all about being happy, and not everyone has an existential crisis where they try to "find out what they want". They already know what they want, and it's each other.

Maybe things could be better. Maybe someone is better suited to them. But it doesn't matter because that's only a possibility. Don't trade real happiness against a possibility of maybe slightly more.

im just saying people rush into things because they think they are the "one" and societal pressure. and that they are comfortable with things. if you have been with someone since puberty you never have had a chance to become your own person. different strokes for different folks....but how one was raised greatly influences this situation. hence me asking about religion/small town question as i think those two situations steer people into this immensely

I can assure this was not rushed into because of that type of mentality. We've watched friends get married who had only been together a few years and 22 years old. Of course there has been pressure from people around us because getting married when you are together for so long is the "norm". But he stood his ground that he was to young to get married at that time and everyone backed off. And it wasn't until all that pressure was gone and he was 100% sure that he asked.

I don't spend every waking hours with this man. I am my own person.

If you want some background, his mom came from another country and didn't marry his father until very late 20's. My father passed away when I was a baby, my mom was 30 at that point and they didn't have a good relationship and she remarried later. So in no way has the way I've been raised play any role in how this relationship played out.

Why do people like you think others can't "experience life" if they're in a relationship? Is that code for being promiscuous?

I personally don't think I could do what she did but if they can and it works, more power to them.

No religious upbringing, I was just lucky enough to find someone that I've spent the last 10 calling my best friend. I think that's where we differ from other couples. We have a friendship also. We enjoy the same things. We have been able to experience an extremely fulfilling life in our late teens and early 20's and both been able to figure out what we want in life. Just because I have a partner doesn't mean I haven't been able to experience my own life and what "truly want and yearn for in life". Because I've been able to just fine and so has he, just with a best friend by my side.

I got married at 19 and I have never had the desire to know what life is like without my husband. That’s a horrible argument and really and awful thing to say.

How old are you now?

THIS! brain isnt fully developed until 25.

30.

Truly the brain isn't done developing until you die.

For college students in engineering/sciences, thinking their grades don’t matter if they aren’t interested in grad school. Don’t slack off and be a C student if you can do better. That just finally stopped screwing my husband.

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I think the point was that grades matter while you’re in school. I had a high D in math (real bad at algebra, but otherwise an A/B student) and now I have to retake it. so the grade matters in the sense that it wasted both time and money bc I didnt get a high enough grade.

but once you have that damn piece of paper it doesn’t matter.

Idk man I really think it depends on what you want to do. I just graduated with an Electrical Engineering degree back in December. I actually found my passion to be Digital Design. Unfortunately, I found out too late that in order for me to get my foot in the door I will have to get a Master's degree. To add to that, I couldn't get any internship experience relevant to that field because that industry isn't at all common in the state I live in.

More unfortunate, I was exactly like OP is describing and graduated with a very meh GPA. That GPA literally screwed me over for a job with Intel. To this day I'm still applying and interviewing for companies that will hopefully lead to an ASIC/FPGA engineer position; the rest of my major was, frankly, boring as hell to me.

Ignore what everyone else says, just do the best you can do in school. Make sure you do as many internships as you can, and network! A good GPA only helps your career aspirations for your first job. It's certainly not the only thing that will help, but it's still important, especially with competitive companies. After you get your first job, your GPA matters less, and you'll have more skills and accomplishments to add to your portfolio

Grades will matter to your first employer

Especially if you happen to graduate into a massive recession and are competing with 300 other people for 1 job.

If you're in the shit right now, you can still turn it around and show prospective employers that you were just being immature when you started school.

Unless you have relevant job experience or “know someone”

It's not that hard to get good grades if you manage your time, even in engineering

I agree that it’s definety not difficult to get good grades. But it does require time that could be spent elsewhere.

This is my problem.

They care more about your portfolio. The only reason they care about grades is if they have nothing else to go on about your skills.

If your first employer is like Yahoo or Dropbox (?) maybe I know they both have some sort of GPA req for devs. For most of software at least, I think it's become pretty trivial if you have any sort of experience from internships, research, or projects.

Only if you have nothing else to show, and I mean ONLY. Plus you probably won't be getting that position if you only have grades to show... Although it can be different for different fields.

At least in software engineering / IT grades mean nothing. Having a portfolio full of interesting coding projects is the only way to go.

And you can make it matter to your 2nd employer if it's actually something to brag about.

They do matter to an extent. I’ve had a few friends denied interviews coming out of college because their grades weren’t the best.

Not saying you should slack off but you shouldn't really think grades matter, or at least stress too much over them. Your comprehension in the core classes is the important part. Your first job will not be because you have a 4.0 and not and 3.0. It'll probably just be because you know someone. Also a person who has a 4.0 with no extracurricular stuff is less appealing than someone with a lower gpa with tons of extracurriculars and what not. Hell, I know a place that won't accept people with a high GPA because they feel people who go for the highest gpa won't fit their social dynamic.

You shouldn't try to be a 4.0 student persay. You should try to network your ass off (most important), find as many extracurriculars that will appeal to future employers, intern, learn as much as you can in your field, and try to stay over a 3.0.

People always talk about this mythical "4.0 and no extracirriculars" student, but realistically I see that students who get 4.0s are also involved/successful in other areas, whether that's through research, developing a startup, leading/being involved in professional organizations, or involvement in a recreational organization.

Again, just my husband's experience, and I'm sure it depends on the particular field but that 2.7 GPA made it harder to get his foot in the door at a couple of places, and also make going back to grad school ( which would likely result in increased money for the same work) a much more difficult proposition. Even though he did the appropriate interships, etc. Also, at least in our area most employers do not give a crap about your extracurricular unless they are somehow job related (eg robot club or engineering Olympiad) or MAAYBE if you "demonstrated leadership" by being an officer. I agree that good internships and networking is ALSO useful, but sliding by and just passing can seriously make your life harder.

RIP me, but has nothing to do with grad school :p

I’ll be going into first year engineering this fall and I don’t plan on slacking because I’d rather not close doors on grad school and internships but, is there really a reason not to otherwise?

Wouldn’t it be better to just focus on building knowledge and overall engineering skills by joining design teams and clubs over maintaining a somewhat arbitrary number?

I’d appreciate any help.

If you want to be competitive, you'll do both.

Ideally, you want both. You don't need perfect grades, but you want As and Bs, not Bs and Cs, AND relevant internships, etc. Also, at this point you're probably thinking grad school=academics, but that's not true. A graduate degree also makes it easier to argue for a higher salary in industry, particularly if you're in any kind of industry that gets government funding. Even if grad school is something you decide to go back to after establishing a work history or because your employer helps with tuition, getting into a grad program is going to be rough with good comprehension but mediocre grades.

I don't understand this notion that you need to either get good grades or "learn". Grades should reflect your knowledge and ability to learn. If I do something I do it as best as I can, and I expect that to bring both benefits good grades and a good education.

I agree that grades are, for the most part, a good approximation of how much content a student retains.

At the same time, my high school experience has been that it’s possible to cram the essentials of a topic for a quiz/test the night before and get an A. Easy. I often find myself doing this in classes which I don’t particularly enjoy.

For subjects that I do enjoy however, I tend to read more into the subject over longer periods. Of course I do well because of this but, my point is that grades don’t accurately reflect this greater understanding.

IMO, grades often reflect a superficial understanding of a subject while learning is more in-depth. The latter is clearly more important in the “real world” while the former seems to be what grad schools value.

The problem is with the education system (teachers?) that seems unable to grade the student properly. Another problem is of course grade inflation. A good grade should evaluate exceptional understanding of the subject. And a middle grade should imply that the student is mediocre. Most people are mediocre. This shouldn't be embarrassing, people should accept it.

Cramming is also bad, and this is a problem of the student himself or herself. Especially in the technical subject, I would never design a test that you can pass by cramming. You should be able to demonstrate command of the subject at an acceptable level.

This is just my experience, but to be honest it was so hard to pass my engineering course that I don’t think most jobs cared about my grade. In fact I was only asked once.

Only 40% of my class passed and most had to resit at least one year. And the employers knew this. So just saying you had passed already made you stand out.

In that case it sounds like passing=good grades for you as long as your school has enough of a reputation that this is widely known in your field.

This totally depends on your particular location. I agree with you that in some instances the local employers know that engineering is hard, so they know they have a good candidate if they know you graduated at all.

AMEN- chemist here, no grad school. Wish I would have gotten better grades and I probably would have gone back to school by now. Don't get me wrong, I have an OK career and make decent money but those damn grades still haunt me a bit. All because I was too lazy to get out of bed and go to class in the morning. For shame.

Yup! This is the same for husband (physics background-now doing stuff that touches on the defense industry). At this point he has a good track record and a job he enjoys at a company that really values him. He probably has a career for life if he wants it there. But if he had a PhD he'd probably be climbing the ladder a little faster, and definitely be making more money. Plus, he probably would have found something faster when he was laid off.

Why, tho?

As long as you get the degree, they’ll still pay you the same shitty starter pay no matter if you were first or last in your class.

What? That's the opposite of true. People with high marks (or good connections) tend to be the ones who get good internships which lead to good jobs - or at least at my school

High marks and good connections are not interchangeable. No marks with good connections is almost always better than good marks and no connections.

I have no idea what jobs you're applying for but this is almost never true. A 4.0 gpa at a good school will get you in the door anywhere. The vast majority of students develop connections organically anyway, they arent the result of nepotism.

In my experience as an engineer they really didn't care a ton about the gpa. I mean they did but they weren't going to treat a 3.0 student any different than a 4.0 student and after you had an internship all people cared about was your job experience

Really? I disagree. In my experience in STEM (without wanting to give out too much detail) if you look at the 90th percentile of income after graduation, there was a huge overlap with people in the 90th percentile of grades. Generally even the people with great connections also had great grades. They're not independent events.

  1. You want the option of going back to grad school later, not because you want to be an academic but because PhDs make more than BAs/BSs in many fields.

  2. Some employers don't care about your grades but some do, particularly when at that point you don't have much of a work history beyond a couple of internships. Once you have 5-10 years of experience it likely won't matter but while you're trying to get that experience why close doors?

Because not everyone has the same expectations you have. Many people are like you, they just want to graduate, start working, make money and be set for life. Others want to go into graduate degrees, and for that, they need to demonstrate superior performance. I understand your point, but you have to think on other people who set their own personal goals a bit higher.

Just losing yourself. People are mentioning exercise, hobbies, relationships. But those are just symptoms. Losing yourself is a fucking slow gradual process until you are in your mid thirties and aren't doing shit with anything you liked for the past 3 decades. It's great to experiment on new things and some childish things will fade away. ....but if you just keep moving around like a flea looking for a dog, you are just going to feel like a parasite on the ass of life. So if you like reading fantasy books, fucking do that shit. You like going boarding, go get some. But fucking don't just go to work, come home, listen to someone else's version of how things should be, and go to sleep. Fucking go out there, and get a fucking life.

Damn man. Out of all these comments and this is the one that really hits deep. I haven’t been doing shit besides school, joining associations, and looking for jobs the past two semesters. The problem of having 18 credits per semester :(

Ikr. Just do what you enjoy doing and don't care about other people's opinions. I do this and I couldn't be happier, unlike the people that force themselves to do all the 'cool' stuff.

Being in a relationship with the wrong person

This also goes for being in a relationship for the wrong reasons.

My parents are an example of this.

How do you know it's the wrong person in the moment?

Having doubts but putting them aside as the relationship is 'convenient' and getting too comfortable for change. In your 20's your too young to just settle

Haha problem solved! Have no relationships!

This a thousand times over!! Don't settle because everyone else is pairing up. I'm in my 40s and every single one of my friends that was in a relationship where there was some doubt, they are now all divorced. It's truly like an epidemic amongst my friends. Oh and don't let your parents decide who you should be with either.

How does this even happen?

Pass them to me lol, just sitting here with my dick in my hands

Edit: don't get me wrong my dick is cool, glad I have it. Just uh getting bored

Full disclosure: I'm still early in my twenties, but I've talked to a lot of older folks about this.

I think people usually give one of two answers to this question: either 1) spending too much time working is a huge mistake, make sure you have tons of cool experiences before you run out of energy or 2) spending all your money on transient experiences is a huge mistake, make sure you save money, because those pictures of you at Burning Man aren't going to pay the bills in ten years. In my experience, most people who recommend the first are those in a financially secure position who kind of regret not having more fun in their twenties, while those who recommend the second are having more trouble and regret not earning/saving more money.

Obviously what you actually want to do depends on your personality and situation. I think it's important to remember that you don't have to go fully in one direction or another. You can do things with friends or go to festivals and still save some money as long as you keep an eye on your finances. Even small amounts of money here and there build up, and then you'll have some to tide you over for when you're older and want to spend less time working.

It's always greener on the other side, they say.

It might sound cliche, but balance it's they key: Saving and experiences are not mutually exclusive. You just need to figure out a sweet spot of how much are you willing to save without compromising on cool experiences.

You can have hundreds of awesome adventures each for a few hundred bucks. There are some that can be had for cheaper, but if you have a few hundred you can do so much stuff. If you don't have a few hundred that you can spend while being financially responsible it doesn't mean you need to spend the next ten years as a slave to your job, it probably worst case means you need to pinch pennies for six months. The balance is honestly not that fine of a line. People just don't take a strategic approach to it. Instead of taking a vacation, they settle for a couple beers at a bar with friends on the weekend. Well, your vacation was those beers. Not even those beers, your vacation disappeared when you had those beers at the bar instead of someone's house.

This comment is forcing me to think about what makes an experience worth doing. I think what you should ask yourself is if that experience will be possible later. Does it have to be NOW?

Your favorite band is in town on their farewell tour? Do it now. You aren't likely to get another chance. All your friends are posting pictures of their trips to exotic places? Wait and save. You can do it later, or find a better deal if you are patient.

or find a better deal if you are patient.

Always do your research before booking a massive trip.

Balance really is key. I'd say things like burning Man are an extreme to one side of the balance.

I thought it was odd that they gave advice to not work so you can live, then said don’t go to burning man. I regret not going to burning man in the 90s when my friends were going. Now it’s just practical, I’d rather do something more family friendly.

I think a safe and chaotic middle ground is to try everything once. Just don’t make being a wanderlust a hobby. Go to burning man once, maybe twice, but it doesn’t need to consume your life. Do it on the cheap. In the meantime, save for bigger things. Just don’t be overly frugal where you miss out and do get too tired or too much responsibility for things.

I’d say it’s about finding balance between both.

Work enough that you don’t burn out and get to enjoy your money but also don’t spend it all on stupid stuff. If going to Burning Man fulfills you (as opposed to just being somehing to do out of ordinary and that you’ll forget as soon as it’s over) then go on and do it.

Those advices are not contradicting each other, you can easily do both, a lot of the financially successful people I know had fun in their 20'. If anything I would say it helps, people are still using networks they created in their party days to do business today. You can easily save 10% of your salary and invest, whatever is your salary. You can easily take risks and try to create your own business. You can easily study and go to parties or travel cheaply. It is not that complicated in your 20', much harder when you got a family and kids.

There is something called moderation that seem to be eluding a lot of people. I truly believe moderation is the key to happiness. Enjoy your life, but don't take stupid risks. Enjoy the calm, but don't be inactive and apathetic.

I work hard and work overtime when I have nothing better to do or no plans, and I travel and live as much as I can when I’m not. These “transient experiences” are some of the best things to ever happen to me and I wouldn’t trade my travels and music festival trips for any amount of money. I have to disagree, travel and experiences make you richer, not poorer. You just have to budget properly.

Everything in moderation

I’m trying to do both and going to work on a cruise ship. Virtually no expenses and I get to travel for free. It is a lot of work and long hours, but I think also the experiences I’ll get from it will balance it out.

Everyone's talking about balance, but you don't need to be balanced in the short term. If you want to work your ass off for a couple of years and not care about other stuff because that job has something you want, do it by all means. If you feel like you want to have fun for a couple of years, and not worry about career, do that. Perfect balance is often not possible because life happens.

My friend worked her ass off and didn't socialize until the final year of undergrad, and then she went crazy for a year. She had a big job lined up in a rural area right after, so she threw herself into work for two years, saved all her money. Now she has a better paying, more relaxed job lined up in a city where her friends are, and she fixed it up such that she can take a break for two months before starting that job. She was able to get that only because she slaved at her job.

You'll get everything you want, just it won't be all at once.

This is what I needed to see. If I did end up living the life I wanted, traveling and partying, I would have fucked myself for my late 30s. And then never accomplish much else... So I guess I can find a balance and be happy at some point.

Save and spend on what you value. You can have both if you don't chase what you don't care about. Don't buy a nice car and rent an expensive place if you want to travel or go to bars. Why have a nice place of you're never there? Use a budget to find out what you want to skimp on and what you want to splurge on. Take the time to really find out where your money is going. It's not about shaming yourself into not spending there. It's just so you can be honest with yourself as where your money is going. You can use that to say, wow, I spend way too much at x, and I don't care about it. Don't worry about what your friends care about, what do you care about?

Live lavishly with what you love, skimp on what you don't. Don't make excuses, and use your 401k. Famously 10% of what you earn goes into savings.

Reading this as a 23yr old, you couldn't be more right. Finding a balance between career and life is hard but it's about balance, not succeeding at one over the other.

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$10 Dollar every paycheck.

Surprised how much you have at the end of the month

So you mean a whopping 20 bucks a month for most people?

$240/year.

I've read that most people can't cover an unexpected $500 bill. Save $20/mo and in just over 2 years you can.

Change "I can't" into "I did" and you start building a better life.

I just can't imagine someone working for 2 years and have no savings. When I found my first job as a waiter, i was paid slightly over minimum wage, and on my first 6 months I saved about $400.

Try being married(getting divorced when i can afford that) having rent to pay, kids to feed,bills to pay feed myself,still gotta pay child maintanence,still got various other crap to pay... finally save a few grand and boom its gone because thats life abd it sucks. Im only 25

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In the uk it is called child maintenance,

Change "I can't" into "I did" and you start building a better life.

This alone can improve magnitudes of more than just saving money.

Of course, then you get an unexpected $500 expense and end up back at square one. This frustratingly happened to me many times over the last few years. I have never been able to keep more than $2000 in savings because I always get these giant unexpected bills 2 or 3 times a year and have to spend half of what I have saved.

but at least you had it to spend and didn't end up in debt?

Yeah it sucks to empty it, but that's why it is there. Imagine getting that same bill, but having no way to pay it. That's the system working as intended

Truth! I am definitely better off than I would otherwise be!

I was thinking the same. It's easy to say "Save $20/mo and in just over 2 years you can"

Then what? You're gonna live under a rock for 2 years? Avoiding all social life and wathever can give you an unexpected bill?

The real answer is: get a better paying job.

Well if $5/week is legit making or breaking your life, yeah, changes are in order.

Now think of the guy that doesn't know how to save and is in debt

Imagine how bad things would be if you didn't have the savings...

Are they truly unexpected? I pay my motorcycle insurance yearly, and every year I don't budget in advance, so it hurts, but it wasn't unexpected. I had to pay $1000 to replace my brake lines (on my car), and I didn't budget for it, but I knew it was coming both because I knew they were rusty, and I knew an old truck needs maintenance.

These were "unexpected bills" by some people's measures, but if one thinks a bit in advance, they weren't really, they just weren't planned for.

Not to be a dick, but you bought a motorcycle and had to repair it. That is very different from getting into a car accident or waking up one day with cancer, dude.

Sure is. That was actually my car (truck) I had to replace the brake lines on, but I'm assuming the previous poster wasn't getting cancer/in a car accident 2-3 times a year. 2-3-times-a-year "unexpected bills" are likely not life changing events, but frustrating things that could actually reasonably be planned for.

No they are genuinely unexpected. So like maybe the brake lines thing if you didn't see it coming.

I've read that most people can't cover an unexpected $500 bill. Save $20/mo and in just over 2 years you can.

The median American have $5500 in checking. (Source: Fed SCF, 2017)

That's not the same thing as being able to cover an unexpected bill. That money could already be earmarked for other expenses.

Exactly, if money in = money out on the regular when an unexpected expense comes in you're screwed.

Checking isn't savings, it's pretty cash.

Most measures of financial distress suggest that the vast majority of households can cover an unexpected bill.

Only 3.4% of households had a payday loan (Source: Fed SCF, 2016), only 13.5% of households have had a late bill of any kind in 2016 (same source). If you think that most households can't cover an unexpected bill, the unexpected bills need to be very uncommon.

Those 13.5% are the only ones who actually GOT an unexpected bill. There's a lot more people who didn't get any unexpected bills but would have been screwed if they did

does that cover for age groups as well? i'd wager that older americans have more than that and younger americans have less. which i'd argue is an important distinction given the topic of the thread

The Fed didn't give a breakdown of how much each age group have in checking.

The median under 35 have $11,100 in net worth. The median of the country as a whole is $97,500. The age effect is huge, but I will bet even the median household under 35 can absorb $500 without too much difficulty.

oh, for sure. i assume that most people under 35 have access to at least that much in credit, even if it requires a deposit or two.

I'm not seeing where it specifically points out checking. All I can find is "transaction accounts" which includes: "checking, savings, money market, call accounts, and prepaid debit cards". And the median value was 4500 for that. I'm not saying you're wrong but I control-F 'checking' and looked manually and that's all I could find. Maybe I was looking at the wrong documents.

EDIT: Also, that's just the people that have those things. There are definitely people that don't have those things.

As the saying goes, "If you save a dollar a week, at the end of a year you'll be surprised at how little you have."

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised at the mindset behind savings. Maybe it's all the mantras of "every little bit counts" to try and get people to save something, but if you aren't even willing to put a cup of coffee into your savings on a regular basis, yeah, you're not going to get anywhere.

Anytime the topic of saving comes up there are plenty of people who describe their situation as not having an extra penny despite only buying food and shelter and only eating rice and beans, so savings a dollar per week for them would be having an extra month of food at the end of the year.

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If you go by standard retirement planning rules of 4% drawdown per year, that would allow you to spend a princely sum of $243 per month in retirement.

Depending on whether that 7% is after inflation or before inflation, that princely sum can be even smaller then it looks.

I don't think the intent of the original comment was to imply that saving only $10/paycheck for life was the way to go, but rather show that it's a start and get the ball rolling.

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Not after 40 years of inflation

In theory, yeah, but that kind of misses the possibility of unforeseen expenses, especially health-related. Not saying you shouldn't save for things like that, but it's rarely ever as cut in dry as saving $10 a month and that fund never being tapped into.

This is incorrect. You can typically elect to have the $10 to be withdrawn from your paycheck. Or just have it auto-withdrawn from your bank account on the pay period. Treat the retirement fund as something you never tap into. You should ALWAYS have a separate emergency fund that's built up for things like medical expenses. That's separate from retirement.

Yeah, split the ten equally. When the emergency fund builds up, start putting more into retirement. I'm always suspicious at the concept that people go through significant portions of their life where they save $738 dollars and then an unexpected event always comes up that costs $737.99. I'm sure it happens to some people sometimes but... There's a bit too much of that in here.

Yeah, I keep trying this "put all your money away" thing, but then every 6 months I have a major car problem or need a wisdom tooth out or something. Then we're back to no savings.

Well, that's also why you out money aside. imagining your car breaking down without savings.

But that’s what your savings are for. You have them so you can pay for those things. You’re doing it right!

If it’s a pension in the uk, you can’t tap into it until you’re 55.

Definitely better to have an emergency fund that gets tapped rather than going into debt and paying interest.

Problem is most people don’t understand what they can and cannot afford. They never learned how to manage their finances.

So it shouldn't be that hard, some people save NO money.

$240 bucks a year? Super surprising stuff

Thats half the internet bill for most people on promotional rates. It's a lot.

Yeah well if you did some math that's 240 a year.. 2.4k in 10 years more then you had 10 years ago

Ok?

I obviously can do the math and probably have used compounding interest to make more in the past year alone than your annual income. I just don't see why setting a bar that low is useful. I guess it can be useful in terms of setting a consistent mindset, but I'd try to add a 0 bare minimum to your bi monthly contribution.

I see a struck a nerve in you.. Good thing your career isn't in common sense you'd be out of a job :)

As a consultant, it actually is :). Getting flown around the world is fun. Check my submitted post history lmfao. (Hint: you get to live in places like this by investing more than 10 bucks every two weeks). https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/5xl7xg/moving_from_los_angeles_to_europe_next_month_i/

What do people consult you for? How to be a smug cunt?

How to make their business make more money. The smug cuntiness is a nice side bonus when morons on the internet who post about World of Warcraft and advice in making a girl like you back somehow try to talk down to other people.

Thats 20 bucks more than they'd have if they spent it, tbf.

Call it $10 per week then.

Unless you work multiple jobs or freelance...

$20 a month starting at 18 at 8% annual is $78k at retirement.

And if average inflation rate continues as it has the past 3 decades, that may be able to get you a new Honda civic

Lol thinkin the same thing. Dumb

If you work a regular 40 hr work week and save 10$ a month you literally will know what you'll make lol. I won't be surprised.

You’re right, doesn’t sound like much, better just give up and not even try since good is the enemy of great around here

I'm 21 a recent grad and now work a local Gov Job. I was barely affording rent food and student loan payments 2 months ago and have since moved in with 2 other people and now I can afford to save and buy a few video games here and there and honestly It's great. I love living with people, they help pay rent/utilities, we do stuff together. I'm way less sad all the time.

Don't fall into the trap of I don't want housemates now that i'm out of college. there's no reason to spend that much money just to exist somewhere.

but even if you save $10 every paycheck, you'd be surprised at how much you'll eventually have at the end of the month or year.

Okay I've read about this everywhere on reddit. But whats the gameplan? What would you be saving for? I feel like I would have to have a goal or something to save for. If not you would just be stuffing money in the bank. And yes.. I save for retirement and an emergency fund.

And yes.. I save for retirement and an emergency fund.

So you know the answer, then.

No but it reads like save just to save, you know?

There are a lot of things one needs to save for. Retirement and an emergency fund are pretty universal. Beyond that there is:

  • Downpayment on a home

  • New (used) car

  • Vacations

  • Money you can feel comfortable spending on something stupid

No one is saying to stockpile money with no purpose. The problem is many people don't save anything at all.

That's exactly the point. You save because you can't predict the future and you may need money in the future. That is the only reason to save - to have additional funds later.

Whats wrong with saving just to save? Stuff happens, you can't spend money you haven't saved...

Putting away extra for retirement means retiring early, you are figuratively purchasing the privilege to not work later in life. You are buying years of your freedom. That's how I see it anyway. I've never seen retirement as saving to save. It's the ultimate endgame. Unless you want to work forever.

Edit: It's not like this money just sits and doesn't do anything. It becomes an alternate source of income if invested properly. If you can save a lot, your investments will eventually make more money than you do.

If you have saved up for literally every possible thing that you could ever need or could happen - retirement, medical, houses, cars, computers, maintenance on all said things, vacation, emergencies, etc.

Then no, you don’t need to save, but people save because the regular population will likely never have all of those things saved up for. There’ll always be something in the future (another trip? A vacation home? A nicer car?) you could want to save money for.

Haven’t you ever wanted something you couldn’t afford at that moment? A house, a new car, a new computer, a new pair of skis? That’s what you’re saving for.

(Aside from retirement and emergency fund since you already said those).

you'd be surprised at how much you'll eventually have at the end of the month or year.

Not if you can add.

If i saved $10 a paycheck for an entire month, id have $20. Great, i went two days without eating.

If i saved $10 a paycheck for an entire month, id have $20. Great, i went two days without eating.

yep. When I met with my financial adviser for the first time some 15 years ago, he launched into the usual "if you'd just saved $50 per month starting at age 20..." speech. In my 20's there were a number of times I had to choose between paying rent or buying food, and I rarely had car insurance or health insurance coverage. I certainly didn't have $50 a month to spare.

when i had my first part time job at publix i saved 25$ a week since i got paid weekly. end of my first year i had enough to buy a sizeable amount of publix stock. granted it hasn't exactly been increasing lately but still.

...how much do you think people actually save?

putting away 10 dollars a paycheck, is actually useless, at most youll save 500 bucks a year. which is fine in 5 years youll have alittle tiny bit to fall back on.

You need a lot more than that to help your future if there is some kind of problem.

Yep this is one of the things that annoys the shit out of me.

People pretend that if you "just save" regardless of your income level things will just magically accumulate to comfortable levels.

There's gotta be something to begin with for it to remain.

If you are living with a small income to begin with switching the brand of your ramen noodle to the cheaper one and putting away $5 a week isn't going to do much.

yeah its easy to say well youll have 2500 in ten years and at that time youll appreciate having it. except you lived on cheap ass ramen for 10 years.

$3664, initial investment of 250, 9 years annual contribution of 250, compounded 7 percent roi. Principal is $2500

https://www.nerdwallet.com/banking/calculator/compound-interest-calculator

where are you getting 7 percent interest from? the magic interest fairy?

You are aware there is no CD that even gives you that interest rate, so that means you are banking on a 401k plan for investment which means you are also paying fees and have risk.

also you arent measuring what that investment is causing you in terms of Hardship.

almost 10 years of depriving yourself of what may make a meager life a little bit better, on the hopes that 10 years down the road, youll be a tiny bit happier, and hoping that during this 9 years, you are never having any emergency or problem that would require you to have need for that 250 dollars a year youre putting away as well. As we both know, if you need to cash out that 401k you will not only take a huge penalty, losing more than half your investment, but you also pay much higher tax penalties as well on that money.

My point is, its often not possible to save without incurring hardships you can avoid.

Cd’s, 401k fees lol. I don’t know if you are financially and/or mathematically uneducated or if you just have no self discipline, impulse control or sense of personal responsibility.

I’m going to assume you are quite happy with a retirement plan that consists of mooching off of relatives for money, demanding Uncle Sam change your diapers and endless gofundme campaigns, so I won’t waste my time. There is no point wasting breath on anyone who refuses to be responsible for themselves You do you. I haven’t had to have a real job for almost 20 years, and I’m not old enough for social security. Ymmv.

Interesting in how you are a woman, considering how much of a dick you are.

Im 47, been married 20 years to a beautiful woman whose intelligence makes you look like the ignorant bitch you are.

Our current retirement 401k is at 540 thousand right now. and we make a comfortable living at 147k last year. I own a home i have no outstanding debt outside my mortgage which has 12 years left on it and a car loan, I have zero credit card debt. Im doing just fine,. but to tell someone who cant afford to eat, that they should put away money for a later day, is the kind of self aggrandizement pseudo intellectual bullshit made famous by people like Suze Orman, and yes douche-bags like you, They can tell everyone else how to live their lives, even though their own lives are spent leeching off of others.

You havent had to have a real job because you are unemployable and have no actual skills, you mooch off of guys im sure. youre just a lazy douchebag who has no clue what its like for people who are poor. You matched on to the one thing that you obsess over and that is savings, Since you havent worked, what did you retire from? charging men while on your back?

Of that, I am sure. its why you have this big anti bodybuilder thing going on and how you say lawyers and money are the sexy things in life. You are truly just a lazy ass gold-digger.

I'd be willing to bet the majority of any income you have, comes from a man or men, paying your way in life or from relatives having given you money to live on, or perhaps social programs.

Wow, triggered much? Lol. Stem degree. Real estate investing.

You opened your mouth first. And its painfully obvious any money you have comes from your husband. You are a lazy ass homebody who doesnt have to work because your husband does all the work and you sit around telling everyone how amazing your bank account is.

sicne youve lived that white privelesge lkife, go try being homeless working at minimum wage and tell that person to just skip a meal a day for 9 years so they can save up 3k in a 401k plan for their future.

Ill bet mommy and daddy paid for your degree, and your idea of working hard is having to be inconvenienced waiting for someone else to do the work while you sit around in yoga pants drinking latte's and gossiping with the other middle aged hags.

Husband made less, much less. Full ride scholarship to top school.

I do sit around in yoga pants and drink good coffee. I sure as shit don’t buy overpriced shit at Starbucks. I like good coffee, but I’m not fucking stupid

husband makes way more now and during these 20 years youre sitting on your ass all day, you ride on his coattails plain and simple.

Okay. Go back to work now.

nope, on vacation, but im sure you have others you need to lord it over, so feel free to focus your lazy ass elsewhere.

not wearing a condom

I was flabbergasted when a younger gal I was hooking up with asked me why I was putting on a condom. Like, we met on OKC and we are hooking up within hours of meetings for the first time. What makes you think I’m going to go raw in someone who is basically a stranger to me?

I'd like the hear how this conversation went down.

I met up with this gal and we had lunch. We headed over to her place where we started drinking wine. I should have realized that this gal had issues when she mentioned she needed a drink because she was nervous, which was strange given the explicit messages she would send me. Anyway, we have a few drinks and get down to business. I put on a condom and we have sex. Pretty mediocre sex overall, but nothing alarming. We spend some time chatting and drinking and she wants to go again.

This is where things get uncomfortable. As so often happens with online hookups, she was weirder than expected, and not nearly as attractive (Also, what mentally stable grown woman wears pigtails?). Between the weirdness and the wine, I had trouble staying hard when we went to go again. She suggested I lay back and let her try, and I complied. She took the condom off and got to work trying to get me hard again. We put another condom on and she got on top for a while. It was working ok, so I flipped her over and tried to do her from behind, but I lost it again. She reached back around and pulled the condom off and told me to try again. I did a double take and and told her I wasn't gonna have sex without a condom, regardless of her birth control situation (she was on the pill, supposedly). She then suggested I put it in her ass...

It was at this point that I gave up on having sex with her again, or meeting her again, for that matter. We lounged around while she pouted about not having sex again. After a while, I was feeling incredibly uncomfortable being in her apartment. She was being very clingy for a casual hookup. I ended up having a friend call me as an excuse to leave.

I don't understand how someone who is active in the kink community (she was) doesn't understand basic safe sex practices. That shit is like the bible for those people.

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I view it as the terms of service for a new sex partner. And sure, it’s unlikely I would have caught anything or gotten her pregnant, but the same cannot be said for unprotected anal without prep.

Seems rather self explanatory

Ive met people whove done that

What makes you think I’m going to go raw in someone who is basically a stranger to me?

Could be a fucked up fetish, albeit, an unforgivably fucked up one

Girls I've been with have always insisted me to go raw. Uhh no thanks.

That's a red flag if I've ever seen one. No way.

You could have told me this last night

But it doesn't feel nice.

Caring too much about other people’s opinion.

This is a mistake at any age.

The biggest mistake I made was living without purpose. I guess that resounds with any age though. Interestingly enough, I was afraid of being 30. So far, my 30's have been the best time of my life.

Turning 30 without having done anything with myself scares me too! Would you mind sharing why you feel your 30s are so much better?

When I turned thirty, I had my own place, I was married, and I even had my own dog. I was adulting. I wanted the age to match the white hairs. I didn't want to recognize with being a kid anymore. That being said, when I hear my own voice on the phone, I sound like the same pudgy 22 year old with no hint of what I now know. Your self perception doesn't change. You wake up, hopefully, everyday the same person- just with a few more achey bones. Getting old doesn't suck. The privileges match the responsibilities.

But what if there is no purpose?

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This was helpful, thanks

One could argue that is a personal decision. Others could argue otherwise. I wish I had listened to the prior.

Taking advice from people on Reddit.

I’ll bear that in mind.

But that's sorta what you shouldn't do. Shit!

At least this thread is fairly positive minded. Usually threads are full of cynical assholes who don't want to see other people try because it makes themselves feel like shit.

I feel just sad thinking about the future. I wanna be 16 again, I want my creativity back!

Lol and here I am at 16 wishing I was younger

Shit man.

When I hit 18, I was a bit sad I still had not ^lost ^^my ^^^virginity ^^^^yet...

I lost mine at 17. I didn't have really enjoyable sex until 21; I would have a lot of issues on bed because my first relationships were terrible in that aspect.

I'm guessing this doesn't apply to you anymore, but if someone reads this, stop getting anxious about your virginity. It literally does not matter; most of sex is about attitude and mentality, be willing to please and have a nice time together.

No shit, I remember being 12 and looking at a pinboard with pictures of myself at 7-10 and actually crying because I missed the good times.

I'm 23 now.

I think deep down we all just want to be kids again

Fuck that man, highschool was the worst years of my life.. haha

If you don't already know what you want to do career wise, start researching now!

So true. I used to create songs in High School and exams and notably college stopped by and had to stop.

Sometimes get back to it, but most I can do is take the files of my old songs (which I still have) and listen to them. I tried doing something new (even starting from some drafts I had at the time) but nothing even remotely good comes out of it. Just the same 3 chords and tunes. Really depressing what age does to you, and I'm only 22.

Give it a few years and you'll realize how stupid your 16 year old self was and will never want to go back.

Seriously though, everybody on r/relationships just jumps to"just break up" over anything its kinda scary.

For real. I feel like Reddit always paints life like you're old at 25 and you need to have a nest egg by then and bla bla bla. I pissed away my 20s having fun, not going to college and gasp working in the service industry (Reddit's most hated, undervalued work). Zero regrets.

I think this is awesome. I regret not doing it myself, had a baby at 22. Seriously, you're only young once!! Go out and see the world and blow money before you settle into the misery that is middle age

I feel like painting life like you're old at 25 is what results in people insisting you spend your 20s living it up like crazy. "You're basically already dead by 30, so you need to live life now."

I really look forward to my 30s, 40s, and beyond, and don't really care that I "blew" my 20s living it up a little less in order to set myself up better for the long term.

The truth is there is no single way to live life successfully, and people need to take the (often conflicting) advice here as potential guidelines and find what best matches their lifestyle, ambitions, and abilities.

Well, only Sith deal in absolutes. I see a lot of the top comments on this thread about saving for the future, which is really good advice. And obviously there isn't anything wrong with settling down early, but being a "fuck-up" and finding yourself in your 30s is a perfectly viable life choice too. These comments about your body hurts, you can't find love, everything is harder intellectually once your past your 20s just seem ridiculous and unfounded.

I'm about 15 comments down, and all of the above are from 25 year olds giving sage advice to 22 year olds.

I love how much of the top comments contradict each other.

"You should not go to college because you will rack up debt and get a worthless degree"

"This is a good time to go to college and learn new things!"

"Don't spend all your money on crazy experiences and adventures to be broke when you are 30"

"Live a little! Get those crazy experiences out of the way before you have kids!"

"Don't do heroin"

"Seriously, don't do heroin"

Okay it looks like on the last one there's a consensus.

Thanks for the advice, we appreciate you.

Wait do I take this advice? I'm losing my mind here

Wait, this advice is on Reddit, so should I follow it or not?

Who better to take advice from than a bunch of fuckups?

Seriously. "We did this, it was fucking stupid, don't do this." - Wonderful advice.

This is a paradox

Ah, yes. A classic example of an epimenides paradox :P

Screw your advice you’re just a random person on reddit why should I listen to you?

Ah, a wild rhetorical comment in it's natural surroundings

Lol most of the advice here seems fairly innocent and with good intentions. Who can object to: dental hygiene, don't take hard drugs, enjoy life??

Thank you. That's great advice.

I'm gonna take your advice and not listen to you

its a paradox

was gonna comment this, this thread is the spawning ground of a buzz feed article.

Oh fucking please. Been on here 8 years and the community and people are absolutely fine and not as bad as people love to complain about. If anything is wrong with reddit, its these nauseating edgelord attitudes.

Not taking advantage of the freedoms you have now. Most people in their 20s aren't married or have kids. Enjoy it. Travel. Volunteer. Figure out who you are and what kind of person you want to be as you finish growing up. Don't saddle yourself down with a ton of responsibilities now because you will never be this young, this free, this full of energy, and have this many opportunities to grab life by the balls and enjoy yourself again.

I have no energy

E: Eat better, sleep better. I know. <3 E: and wow, some of you guys sound sad. It’s OK. ‘Best years of your life’ is a phrase, not a thing. I’m eager for the day when I’m the same age as my colleagues, and so am not disrespected for my inexperience. Idk

this has to be the realest comment i've seen all day

I lack energy and the money to travel. If my 20's are the best years of my life I don't think I wanna do this for another 5 to 6 decades.

Yeah, I have a hard time understanding how people can expect me to travel and make the most of my life when I am broke as a joke and have so many internships and responsibilities to get out of the way if I want a chance at a decent career. Also, having people constantly tell me that my 20s are the best years of my life gives me serious anxiety. I feel like my life is slipping away already, and I'm only 23.

I basically just hope that it's all a big fucking lie, like people saying high school years were the best. I graduated two years ago and I gotta say I've never felt happier leaving that place.

In my experience, and I'm 37, my best years are now. I have never been fitter, richer, healthier, more secure, smarter, more free. I detest the idea that you automatically get fat and frumpy and boring and sedentary and isolated at age 35 or whatever. I don't see myself slowing down for at least 10 years - life and health and vitality are largely what you make of it, and I'm so much happier and freer now than I ever was in my teens or 20's

I'm 35 and I've read that your 30's are good, but 40's are an even better version of it. Makes sense because I have two very young kids, and by the time I'm in my 40's they will be much more independent and I can see where I'll have a lot more time for my personal hobbies and interested, plus hopefully, more money.

My cousin turned 50 a few years ago...said these are the best years of his life...kids are going to college...you have money and spare time to have fun...there's always something to look forward to.

kids are going to college

you have money

Pick one.

Option 3:

Live in a non third world country*

^* USA included

A few weeks back I overheard some customers talking about how their 40’s were their best years because they made good money, had status, had wives but also had young girlfriends on the side, had some energy still, developed good taste in food and fashion, etc.

That conversation gave me perspective and something to look forward to. And by the way, they were in their late 50’s and this is in Japan.

Having side pieces in your 50's, or any age really isn't something to strive for. Pretty fucked up actually.

Sorry I didn’t mean I approve necessarily, but this IS Japan and that is the traditional way of thinking. My point was all cultures have a different ideas of what makes a happy life and America loves to stress Youth and Coolness whereas other cultures might focus on stability or family or status.

Yea as I write this I realize America loves these things too, but it’s no fucking contest. Americans want to be famous, rich, cool, genius badasses before they’re 30 or even 20. You see it in our fiction, in Silicon Valley, read it in our history books, it is totally pervasive. In Japan, I’ve seen 29 year olds refer and been referred to as “babies” or “baby aged”.

My whole damned life, ever I since I was a CHILD I’ve heard some variation of “These are best years of your life, so cherish them” I literally have memories of when I was five of people various adults telling me this. And that sentiment has continued to this day, literally three days ago someone told me this. I was just relieved to learn there is an alternative.

I'm 28 and this is pretty much how I feel. I had a kid young, when I was 20, and I felt really isolated from my peer group and locked down in life and opportunity, I couldn't just leave to go to school somewhere or go take a job across the country, so being a single dad, I was stuck at my mothers house because it was impossible for me to afford my own place + childcare + driving all over for that crap. So I worked whatever jobs I could that were close by, and had an opposite schedule from my mother.

Now, I've gotten into a trade, had another kid, gotten married, bought a house, and feel freer than ever. Definitely have more money than ever, even if I do stress about bills sometimes still. Its only going to get better as I put more time into my trade and my wage goes up, more offers for good paying side work, etc.

Working on the energy, thing, I've for sure gotten lazier in my "old" age!

Damn, you are so much more of an adult than I am! I hope you are very proud of yourself.

The energy is probably the one thing I do have. I evangelize kettlebell training like there’s no tomorrow (because for some, there isn’t).

I treat my exercise as an investment. If you do some swings, deadlifts, squats for half an hour first thing in the morning, every day, you will feel invincible within a fortnight.

I've had some free weights, including a kettlebell for a while now, I just don't touch them enough. I recently bought a weight bench, and I've been getting at it a lot more. Cardio is what I'm really lacking, but its difficult to want to get out and get at it when you have 2+ feet of snow on the ground 5-6 months of the year. I need a treadmill.

Ooh boy you should be grateful you’re not my friend. When I talk to my friends and family about exercise and health I go with the HARD sell with the kettlebell. They’ve learned to avoid that conversation with me. Those reasons you gave would incite an Infomercial from me about the wonders of the kettlebell

“Are you stressed, fatigued, ugly, stupid, weak, have low energy, low sperm count, low sex drive, and a burning hatred for your life? Try the Kettlebell! This innovative workout cannonball invented by ancient Russian strongmen will magically cure what ails you! Low on time? Exercise for as little as 15 minutes a day and see results in as little as a week! Can’t make it to the gym? Bad weather? Kettlebell in the Privacy of you own home! Hate cardio? Just Swing faster!

The Kettlebell will build muscle, torch fat, make you taller, and canneven make your dick bigger*! Buy now for just $149.99!”

sort of *sort of

My friends and family also hate this conversation because it seems like I’m making judgements about their lives. They are correct.

Got any kettlebell routines or exercises you'd recommend? Right now I've got a 25lb one to work with. I'd like a 35lb one, but I figure I should work out some kind of routine before I get a bigger one.

I never thought of what I did as a formal routine, I do squats, deadlifts, swings, push presses, bent over rows, and the I end with push-ups and planks. The squats, deadlifts, and push presses I started with 10-20 and just increased reps over time. The swings are where the Kettlebell shines and those I do as many as I can before my posture goes bad, which is about 150-200 swings.

In order to avoid burnout but also keep consistency, I do this every other day and then on my lighter days i focus on what I call vanity exercises- I focus on specific things I don’t like about my body, namely my forearms and butt, and tone them with a bunch of hammer curls and then bridges, donkey kicks, clamshells, and lunges. I want the forearms of Popeye and the ass of Chris Meloni.

Both of these workouts last about an hour total when I include stretches and showering. I exercise everyday only because I’ve set aside time in the morning to do it and if I don’t exercise at that time I will falter and eventually stop. The workout with the Kettlebell is the stuff that really torches my fat and gives me my energy though.

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Funny enough, my mother has an elliptical I've been trying to steal from her. "You haven't touched it in 5 years, just let me take it and free up that space in your basement!".

Same here man. I hear people our age say that they are "getting old" and that is why they are falling apart and tired and so on. No. Half of that is mentality and the other half is no exercise and bad diet for years.

Oh, geez, the "getting old" comments are unbearable, and acting like being constantly busy and exhausted is a merit is off-putting. I definitely understand that kids change things, but if your life is one giant cycle of waiting for the weekend, different choices seem necessary. And feeling old at my age is just a reflection of one's choices, not an inevitable thing

I'm 28, still in my 20's but I see life as an uphill thing. I strive to be in a better place in 5 years than I am now.

I agree, just because a person is getting older, doesn't mean they should just accept things and become boring. Life is meant to be lived, so do whatever that means to you.

I was also told that high school was supposed to be "the best time of my life". I'm glad I didn't listen, things are much better now.

When I was in high school I was broke AF and was unable to do a lot of things. Now I make a point to get out there and do stuff that I enjoy. I've had so many wonderful experiences and I only expect for things to continue to get better.

Of course it will take work, but I'm hoping as long as I am putting in effort things will get better for me.

I've seen so many of my friends go from being super ambitious with huge plans in their early 20's to being shells of themselves in their late 20's. They gave up, are stuck in unhappy relationships, had kids before they were ready, or got into a lot of trouble with the law or got into drugs and alcohol.

I don't want to look back on my life at 40 and think I wasted my time.

I just turned 30 a few months ago. I spent my 20s working my ass off to get into law school/go to law school/work long hours as a lawyer in private practice. I now have a government job with better work-life balance. I definitely had fun and partied in my 20s, but I worked too hard to have the ~wild 20s~ that are the subject of so many thinkpieces. Now, as a newly minted 30 year-old, I'm having fun, traveling for really the first time in my life, in the best shape of my life, financially secure, and free of the high school clique-style pressure to live one's life a certain way that unfortunately pervades into your 20s these days. Meanwhile, a lot of my friends who are getting married and having children, and acted like I was going to die a lonely spinster for being single for most of my 20s, are openly jealous of my life. You only have to have a boring, lonely 30s if you choose to have a boring, lonely 30s.

Thank you for posting this

I hope you're right. It's been one he'll of a shitstorm so far and between 20-25 I feel like I've aged 2 decades

I mean, I'm not right by default, that's my point. I am saying that it's possible, but it takes effort and deliberate choices. My peers who would disagree with me have made choices that made them dissatisfied with life

Ah, okay. It sucks that society wants to make us all believe that the best time in our lives is when we're poorest and have only entered the adult world

Yes. This! The 20’s were good, and fun. But 30’s are rad. Thinking 40’s are going to be even better. My mom just hit 70 and her life is really nice.

Look, I would say that for those people, their twenties were the best years of THEIR lives, just like for some people it was highschool and they say highschool is. Also to paraphrase Homer Simpson, even if they say that their twenties were the best years of their life, it only means that they were the best years of their life SO FAR!

Years give perspective. You remember the good things. The shitty moments become funny or fade away. It's kinda nice.

I think back to high school and I wish I had enjoyed it more instead of feeling miserable all the time, and hating everything. You never realize how nice you have it until you have it worse later. I'm 100% sure I'll look back at my life right now with longing, even if I don't think it's that great. Someday I want to be in a place where I'm happy in the present, instead of looking backwards wishing I had realized how nice I had it then.

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I literally cannot handle having a job during the school year or I will fall so far behind you wouldn't be able to see me after my first day, and have spent my summers just trying to remember how to enjoy myself. Fuck hugh school. I have above average intelligence and maturity, but my grades are all middle c's to high d's in all my required courses because I get stressed and shut down way too easily. I want to be a programmer, but they don't offer good programming classes at my school, and I have no time to take them extracurricularly and be able to have some semblance of a social life without stressing myself to death. I have now idea how I'm going to survive college or the real world.

Try therapy/psychiatrist for anxiety and getting a personal tutor. I know people who felt exactly the same as you in high school. Felt like they could never get through college and then they ended up getting therapy to reduce stress and taking extra time to study. It's completely doable. College imo felt just a bit different from high school. The course work is harder, but you are also more mature and intelligent and can handle it better.

You really should try to focus inward and be happy. It sounds uber cliche but it’s true. The place won’t make you happy, you’ll forever long for something more. Seriously - meditate, pondered, think, workout, run, do drugs, drink, journal... whatever you do, focus on yourself and what you’re grateful for and do it regularly. You’ll be happy you did in a few years.

do drugs

maybe don't do that one

Depends on the drug and frequency of taking said drug, and practicing harm reduction.

True, just a bad idea for alotof people though

And a great idea for just as many. Drugs should be an enhancement, not an escape.

>shitty moments fading away instead of constantly thinking about them and regretting them for the rest of my life

absolutely not me_irl

I vaguely recall that good things happened during high school but I don’t remember them specifically, whereas the major shitty events are incredibly vivid.

That's not perspective it's nostalgia

Maybe you're right but my point remains

The best years of your life are where you've peaked, and the rest of life is downhill from there. Not many people peak in high school. You certainly don't have to. The happiest moments of your life are likely ahead of you.

There is always a nostalgia bias. Looking back you tend to wash away the sting of stress and problems.

Every year should be the best year yet. Life is a skill you slowly get better at. Those who say it's high school or your 20s have my pity. I look forward to a couple of decades from now when I can finally retire and spend all my time with my grandkids.

If the 20s are the best years of your life then I really don’t want to live to see what the rest will be like.

Everyone always says "Enjoy X time of your life, it's the best part" and X = where you are now.

When people say that they usually refer to the life they had in highschool. If you have lots of friends, you're not bullied, and enjoy/are good at studying, then highschool is amazing. Once problems of a grown up start hitting you, you miss highschool for the lack of responsibilities you had. I'm 27 and all the thoughts of having to work everyday, working on the relationship with my girlfriend, car payments, repair, getting rid of hobbies cause I can't afford them, rent.... Also finding a solution of a better job so I can buy a place, so I can support my future wife, the kid that I might have, the parents that are getting older and more ill... It's so depressing

My thoughts on this are that since we are living longer on average, and the age of adolescence is slowly creeping upwards, then our "best years" are slowly creeping towards the 30s rather than the 20s :)

For me: Not Rich Enough > Work > HS > College/Uni

I've heard the opposite, that every year is the best year of your life until you're about 45. Then they're about the work you put in when you were young. Right now, I'm in almost 200k student debt and will probably double that before I'm into my career. I don't expect life to be awesome til I'm 30, which means I've got half a decade of this shit left.

You can do it.

Fuck high-school, that place was a nightmare.

Yeah, it's a lie. The best years of your life are whenever they're best. Doesn't have to be a specific timing, just when you consider it to be the case. For someone else it could be between 49 - 55 that they think were the best. It's literally all yours to decide.

31 year old here. Married, 3 kids. The people who say those were the happiest years of their life are looking back on it through rose tinted goggles. It's very likely that they're only saying those were the happiest years because they miss having less responsibilities and they're in love with their memories.

What, you don't have rich parents who are happy to cover your all-expenses-paid spring break and summer vacations to far-flung parts of the world? Pshaw

This is truth. Out of all of my friends, two are actually having any success in life. (All mid 20s.) One got hired in a big family business at 18, the other gets $30,000 a year inheritance from a rich, dead aunt, so he can work a low-wage job and still be fine.

It was weird being in university, and being the only one in most classes who didn't have a Macbook, newest iPhone, DSLR camera, etc. They all went on vacations to Florida or fancy places in Europe for every holiday.

The First National Bank of Mom and Dad can get you pretty far in life.

I hope I can provide that life to my future kids.

Don’t worry about it mate, 20’s are the years where you figure out who you are, and 30’s are when you just enjoy being yourself

my late thirties were far better years of my life than my emo twenties. so for you, it also sounds like the best years of your life are ahead of you

Someone told me "you will miss these days!" and I was like "wtf does this get worse???"

Personally I’d have to say my 30s are waaaay better than my 20s ever were. I’m stable, I know what I want to do and I have my own little family that brings me so much happiness. All I remember of my 20s was constant anxiety!

25 here. Constant anxiety is me irl

That's why i hate advice like this garbage top comment. It's basically "be rich." I fucking hate the trust fund set around here telling everyone to spend so much money.

You mean just because im 20, have 10k in debt, make <$10/hr, have work sometimes 14 hours a day, no car, and have less than a grand in the bank that I can't travel the world with all of my nonexistent free time?

Yeah that makes sense. Rose colored glasses are what make our 20s look fun and free.

It’s a total lie. The 20s fucking SUCKED man. I just turned 30 and things are really starting to look pretty good. I feel awful for for people whose best years were their 20s. Hang in there, when you get around 27/28 you’ll see what I mean.

I feel sorry for people who didn't have fun in their 20s

What fun things did you do in your 20s that you wish these people to experience?

literally everything I did in my 20s, I'm 32 and loving my 30s too. It's just silly to say you feel bad for people who feel like their best years were their 20s. I've been happy my entire life and have a ton of fond memories, my high school years weren't as good as my 20s, but I'm not going to say I feel awful about people who felt like their high school years were their best... it's just a lame statement to make.

Like what? Give us examples of fun things you did.... Okay I'm gonna admit something, the reason I was asking that was to bait you into giving me an answer that requires serious money so I can tell you that most people in their 20s like me can't afford that shit.

If you'd like me to tell you my life story I will, but to try to summarize. I went to college, dropped out out and moved to Miami working for AT&T in as a retail sales consultant. I floundered around partying in south florida for 3 years and having a blast while doing so, but did nothing of major consequence, I just had a good time with friends. I moved to Austin, TX and went through 2 jobs in a matter of a year and a half. During that time I attended SXSW twice, made a ton of friends in Austin, started getting paid by an app start-up and started taking time to travel when I could including going to burning man where one friend paid for my ticket and another friend let me borrow $400 for a flight, I had like $200 in my pocket when I went. I then got too sick from my lung disease Cystic Fibrosis and could no longer work a full time job and moved my stuff back to my parents' and started traveling through the network of friends I had built across the US and making enough money to provide for myself through odd jobs and gigs my friends offered me when visiting. This entire time I got very into electronic music and built a network of friends across the US from partying and that ended up turning into me working in the music industry in my late 20s as an artist manager for a few producers and also a talent buyer at a couple of clubs. All the in between stuff of partying and meeting friends and going on random trips were all the fun parts. I did it all with very little money and a whole lot of effort. It wouldn't be a lifestyle for everyone, but I absolutely loved it. Be negative all you want, I loved my 20s and now I'm loving my 30s, you should get over yourself and instead of spending time telling people their wrong based on pure assumption about something that's totally subjective, you should go do something about your own life.

It's fully possible to have fun in your 20s but then recognize later that they weren't nearly as great as what they could do in their 30s.

I spent pretty much my entire 20s a college student. I had fun, but I was also under a lot of debt, and thus had no actual freedom to do anything that required any amount of money.

I turned 30 two months ago. I have a job, my debts are lower, and I can actually afford to go out and do stuff now without worrying about it being added to the credit card balance. Life is less stressful (honestly, most jobs are way easier than college classes, at least when you're taking 300-level or higher ones), it's easier to plan get togethers with friends and family, and they also have money to go out and do stuff and travel on occasion.

Granted, plenty of people fall into a great career with little/no debt in their 20s, and they can have that same kind of freedom earlier, but a lot of people also don't, and I don't see why it's "sad" for some folks to take a few more years to get their financial act together. It's not like this economy makes that terribly easy for most to do.

That's the opposite of what I said, he said he feels bad for people who felt like their best years were in their 20s. That's such a lame criticism of people who have just lived a different life than you. Just because his 20s sucked doesn't mean it's "awful" that someone else had their best years in their 20s. I didn't say it's bad to have a better time as life goes on... the intent of what I said is that it's sad if your 20s sucked so bad you have to make bad handed comments about people who had good years in their 20s.

I’m 34, and I can tell you that my 30s have been significantly better than my 20s.

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Or, you know, balance.

Work/Life balance is a rare opportunity for this generation.

You're kind of preaching to the preacher, my dude. I'm Gen Z.

Yea a lot of these platitudes dont really apply to the majority of genY/Z

Sure, but sarcasm does.

Or if your family is super rich you can do both. Maybe next lifetime lol :?

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I understand if you don't want to answer, but can I ask why you weren't able to pay your bills while working so much? It's hard for me to fathom because where I'm from, part time work in retail is enough to cover the expenses of a single person.

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Wow, that's really rough.

Don't have kids. Your 30s will be your 20s but with money.

3 kids and no money. I wish I had no kids and 3 money.

Don't worry what other people say you should be doing, no one can do everything (usually) and people don't all find satisfaction in the same things. You've chosen to focus on building a career and that takes time and energy. Those like me who choose to fuck off and travel often do it because we don't know what to do and/or don't care about starting careers. And that's alright, we don't all have to follow the same paths. Of course there are those lucky people who turn traveling into a career, or who have endless funds to do it without stressing about bills, but most of us are bumbling along hoping it all clicks in place eventually. I am 28 and survive by babysitting and teaching English, but I get to live abroad and still travel to new countries every year. My life seems cool to some and ridiculous to others. I can't imagine doing a 9-5 in the same city my whole life, but I do get jealous sometimes of people who always knew what they wanted career wise and had the motivation to put their energy into it. Those who have paid vacation time and are able to save money, who have a sense of security and purpose bigger than "see lots of cool places".

You worry you're missing out but on the flip side perhaps you wouldn't enjoy a moment of going out and traveling if you felt you were losing opportunities that are important to you. People try to preach the 'right' way to be living life but none of us really know what's right. I have a feeling most people are just trying to validate their own choices by saying it's the best way to live. You'll be fine :)

I ignored the internships and responsibilities and had fun and traveled my early 20s as a waiter. Eventually caught up to me and I had no idea where my life was going at like 26, buckled down, went to a trade school, started a real career by the time I was 27.

Its also nice to be older and have shit figured out. Have had a job for years and got money to go holidays etc. Buy a nice thing for yourself without having to save for it because you always saved some money. A lot of people are happier in their 30s or 40s etc.

I'm 25 and my husband is 40, and he said he enjoyed his 30s way more than his 20s.

In my opinion it comes down to what is important to you. If you don’t want to travel because you want to fulfill your responsibilities and internships, then ask yourself if that career field will make you happy. It doesn’t sound like your happy based on your comment about feeling that your life is slipping away, so look at everything and assess what makes you happy and go for it. If you don’t know know, try new things. Try to get an internship in a different place or find a different career field/new job.

I had no idea what I wanted to do until I took an internship in a place I never lived in a field I wasn’t sure about it, but I love it and am pursuing a job now. Try to look at it this way; when people say your 20’s are the best years of your life, don’t think that means now is when you’ll have what you typically would consider fun (not having responsibilities, relaxing, etc), instead think of it as meaning that your life is going to change because you’ll have the opportunity to find out what’s really important to you and have the ability to establish the beginning of a life where you’ll be happy for years to come.

29 here, still young but, life only gets better and better as you age, imo. My 20s we're pretty cool, but god my 30s are going to kick ass. I have money now, I've learned a fuck ton, and I'm still not married with kids.

Because all the people telling you to travel are well off in life and can't understand how people can't afford to do it.

people who are 40+ don't understand what happened...entire generation is poor from college debt that was supposed to make us all rich.

Na fuck that. I worked my ass off in my 20’s and now I get to enjoy it in my 30’s

You have the option to make any decade the best of your life imo. It's a choice. My 20's had a lot of fun and memories (and a lot of shit unfortunately), but they are still nice to reflect on b/c I was younger and could have done more, but I didn't. My 30's are better b/c I'm in a better place and have more money. Instead of squandering it, I'm trying to make the most of my money and time so I can have a great decade and not look back in my 40's thinking I was younger then and could have done more. Each decade has the potential to be awesome, just different.

Any part of your life can be the best part. You're making sacrifices now (internships, responsibilities) to better your future. People like to talk as if all lives follow a similar path but they often don't, and times have changed a lot from previous generations. There'll be ups and downs and that's ok; you're allowed to enjoy and be upset in response to that. You have many years and many opportunities for happy times ahead.

Not to make it sound worse but it definitely gets worse. I struggled to finish college, hang out with friends, and find time for hobbies in my 20's. Im now 32 and might have a few hrs one day of the week to myself.

As someone who just turned 40, my 30’s were awesome because I finally had a little money for once. I was broke as hell in my 20’s. I still had some really fun times too, but having money is way better than not.

If you save up for a flight you can find work abroad in a hostel very easily. It's much cheaper to live in say, Vietnam or Colombia, than it is in a US city. Once you're over there, it's really cheap to make short excursions to other places. I know people who had done that for years.

Study abroad!

I’m 32 and started working the week after I graduated high school. I lucked into a job that paid pretty decent... at least it was decent at the time. I wish I’d gone back to school sooner, sure. Make no mistake, you’re doing it right right now. But you don’t have to get straight to work right after you get your degree. That’s when you take some time for yourself. Renting a car is cheap. Trains are pretty cheap if you do it right. You can get an America The Beautiful pass for like $100 and it gets you into every state and national park. Join the peace corps. They’ll help pay tuition back and you get to see parts of the world you might never otherwise while giving back and putting your degree to good use. And you’ll meet people. People you’ll want to be with. People that’ll want to be with you. People that might just want to fool around. And that’s okay (as long you’re safe)! Get drunk. Get a black eye. Give someone else a black eye. Make out with someone who doesn’t speak a single lick of any language that you might gleam between now and then. Eat some weird food. Eat something living (bugs or something, dude; don’t be a cannibal that shit is weird). Have a reason to need to escape north to Mexico. Rent and car notes and all that stuff will be waiting for you, yeah. But youth doesn’t wait. Time will slip by before you know it and you’ll wish you took that trip. Whether it’s just over the border to the next state or the next country. Come up with some money somehow, that shit is easy. Cut grass, wash dishes, or meet and charm some old rich widow. Once you’re out there in the world, something else will come along and provide what you need. Or it won’t. And that experience will provide you with some fucking true human growth. The kind you won’t get in a classroom. And the kind you’ll never get slaving for time and half on a Saturday and wishing your break times away.

TL;DR: Never get so busy making a living that you forget to make a life.

Traveling doesn’t mean you need to hop in a plane. If you have a car, just drive around the US. In 22 days I did a 10,000 mi trip around the US, went to 16 national parks, and minus souvenirs I spent about $2k. Best thing I’ve ever done.

Good random pro tip is that most national parks have national forest or other preserves around them that are mainly free to camp in. Sometimes it’s not worth the difference for convenience/gas but in the bigger parks (Glacier, Yosemite, etc.) you can save a pretty penny.

I've never met a single person who said their 20s were their best years. All the 30 and 40-something I know are loving life more than they ever have before.

It gets better. I’m in my late 20s and they were tough, but I’m getting to the point where I save enough to travel a little while not putting myself in a hole. Everyone says that every age is the best years of your life. I’d say your entire life is the best years, just live it.

I hear you. I spent the better part of my twenties in the army, toiling away in shithole countries like Iraq and Afghanistan.

All the “good” advice is from people who grew up decades ago, when all that shit was still possible.

Preach! Something that I like to do is go to bed early. Sound lame? Everyone I work with has kids and they only snag 5 hr of sleep. Not me, I’m 23 and I get 9 hr and I enjoy my office job because I’m not tired as fuck.

Your 20s are only the best if you make them the best.

The way I see it you can have your best years in your 20s if you weren’t saving up/working super hard towards your future.

If you were doing that, you’ll likely have your best years in your 40s/50s when the fruits of your labor come up bear.

Neither way is the wrong way to live - it’s just a choice to make.

It was based on the world 60 years ago when you could much more easily travel and sustain yourself on very little money, then return years later to immediately get a well payed job without anyone questioning the gap in your work history.

I always wondered how people dealt with the time needed to travel. How many people have work that will allow for that much time off? Lots of people have scant time allotted by work for things like this. And to go on these month long+ trips . . . a lot of jobs would fire you and the resume gaps warrant concern.

I"m going to blame work culture again. Taking vacation time, or going on holiday, was viewed as an acceptable thing to do. Whether a young professional or a family breadwinner no one looked down on someone for taking time off and enjoying themselves. It was a reward for hard work.

These days taking time off is weakness. You're not a 'team player' if you don't dedicate your like to a company. Choosing to travel is a sign of disloyalty to modern employers, anyone who doesn't put in 10 hours of unpaid overtime is lazy.

A lot of it is connected to the collapse of unions, who worked to first normalise time off. As union popularity fell so did the concept of working class holidays. If you're a rich frat boy going off on his daddy's yacht you're fine.

  1. 27 will be the best year of your life so far. You will be done with school/starting a new career OR you will be a year or two in to your new steady job and you will have multiple weeks of paid vacation. Save up a few thousand, put a little away every month. Even if it’s just going to the next state/country over, make sure you get out and do something. At 24-26 the decisions made for you are starting to reach their end, and at 27 you get in to the flow of all of your own decisions. Your life isn’t slipping away, it’s all ahead of you!

I eat donuts in the parking lot of the grocery store because I’m 27 and fuck you!

I went hitch hiking for holidays in my 20's a few times. Slept rough. Pretty much lived on bread rolls with a bit of deli meat. I did this by myself and with friends. Once saved for a year once then managed to get around Europe averaging $20/day for the trip plus flights. It was rediculously tight but a cool experience.

People can get around and see the country/world if you want. It takes sacrifice and a certain level of desire for adventure. Get a bag and go. It should work out fine. If it doesn't and you end up in some back town jail cell for vagrancy, or you walked for 3 days and couldn't get a ride you'll still have a tale of adventure and know what to do better next time.

The best years of your life are entirely up to you.

My uncle recently got remarried at 52 to a lady he met randomly in the grocery store. They dated for six months and he fell in love and now they're both happier than they've ever been. He's going to Tokyo in August just for the fuck of it. At the wedding he told me that he feels like his life finally began.

Age is a number. Put a value on all of the possible things you could do right now and rationalize why you're taking the path you're taking.

These internships are going to help prop you up for more possibilities down the road. Money doesn't buy happiness, it just makes it easier to look for.

You always forget the climb when you're taking in the view.

Honestly I think it might be a lot of older people not realising how expensive tralev is now. When my parents were a bit older than I am now they travelled a lot, but the cost of the trip was lower than it would be today. Yes, plane tickets cost more, but everything once inside the country was dirt cheap. I believe they bought a car in Europe for about $100 or something, probably equivalent to $400 today but still. They used it for three months then sold it for half what they bought it for.

20s are the worst. So much uncertainty, so much fear that you’re doing the wrong thing and will regret it. Tyranny of choice. As you get older, some doors close, but I enjoyed having things (career, relationship, city of residence) more locked in and not second guessing it all so much. My life got so much better in my mid-30s.

if it makes you feel any better, 20s was certainly not the best years of my life. Having no money means that all my free time is spent miserably. Adding to that, having no confidence and being ugly meant that I was a lonely and horny dude who couldnt get laid. Just having no fun in life meant I had no motivation to do well at school.

I picked up in my late twenties (now mid 30s) and now have a decent job but not as much free time. But its good! Go on dates with money, job gave me confidence etc. 30s is definitely my decade.

Same here. I have neither the time nor the money to travel, and people always make it sound like you haven’t lived until you’ve traveled.

I chose travel and fun ensuring a good career when I was 20 and flunking out of school wasting money on nothing. I got a decent paying kitchen job and worked as much over time as possible. I lived cheap with roommates and saved as much as I could. I've got to travel a decent amount, hiked a fuck ton around my state and lived in a couple different states. I moved back to what I considered my hometown in my home state at 25 and got back into school. I have no savings and am not starting out with much, but I have a 3.6 GPA the past 3 semesters and a lot of experience doing different jobs. It all depends on what you decide to do with your time and money. You seem to be prioritizing you future more than "the now" at the moment. Nothing wrong with that at all. Remember though after all this time reaching for a good career its going to be hard not to jump straight into one after college. Then it will be hard to get more than 2 weeks vacation time (if in the US) and travel. It's all about what you want and when you want it. I probably sound pretentious as fuck.

Nah, you sound straightforward, which I appreciate. Yeah, I'm basically in exactly the spot you mentioned, which is where I'm caught between wanting to just get grad school over with and start earning real money as soon as possible and wanting to have some carefree experiences before I'm "tied down" with a long-term job (that gives about 2 weeks of vacation a year) and, eventually, children. I get that no one's journey is exactly like anyone else's, and I try to internalize the thought that your life is what you make it, but it's hard to completely dispel those nagging thoughts that no matter what I'm doing, it's probably not ideal. Oh, well. C'est la vie, I guess.

The flip side of what I did. I had a buddy just go for school,made killer grades, focused all his time on it and was done with school by 24. Joined the peace corps, went to Thailand for 2 years and is now living in any city he wants in the US because of his awesomeness in college and experience in the peace corps. Just decide what you want to do and go for it. Just do you man. IMO what is more important than travel and college degrees is how we interact with the people and world around us. A stranger on the bus could have more impact on your life than a 3 month trip to an exotic land.

The real answer is you get off your ass. If you live in a first world country the only thing to blame on you being broke is yourself. You just need to constantly do shit to better your life. Aside from the people who had inheritance money handed to them, all the successful people in the world are successful because they've worked their ass off for the past X number of years. Not saying you'll be a billionaire, and not saying many wealthy successful people don't get lucky, get a ton of help, but if you're broke now you'll always be broke unless you motivate yourself to get off the computer and go make something. Start a small business, learn something online that translates to contract work like graphic design or video editting.

There are literally thousands of things you can do, but you just need to start.

Also, having people constantly tell me that my 20s are the best years of my life gives me serious anxiety.

No kidding. I'm 27 and every decade has been worse than the previous one in most aspects. Early childhood, zero responsibilities, did great in school and everyone praised me for being "such a smart and nice kid".

As I entered middle school I started having anxiety, and grades started to slip since I suddenly had to do this alien thing called "studying", and aside from having a great aptitude for English as a foreign language, far more so than any of my peers (something I've completely failed to capitalize on because I have no interest in any such career, although it would definitely help me work and live abroad... but that's a different story altogether), the days of being the "smart kid" were over. I mostly got my act together in the end, but that decade did culminate in 2 wasted years at university doing something I ended up having no interest in only to drop out (thankfully it's basically free in this country if you're in a low income family, so no debt to my name at least).

My 20s have consisted of 5 years in trade school getting two technician qualifications (electronics and telecoms/IT tech) including one year in the middle where depression, anxiety and outright lack of energy and motivation made me quit attending and essentially "restart" next year. It's been almost 3 years since I got that second tech qualification and I'm still unemployed, so needless to say they haven't exactly helped me. Regardless of all the stats the economy here is still shit 10 years after the crash, even more so locally, and I have neither the resources nor the confidence to move elsewhere, nevermind that no one really wants to hire a 27 year old with zero experience and no university degree anyway when they have hundreds of people squabbling for a single position. So here I am, feeling basically worthless and knowing it's not gonna get any better.

The one aspect where things got better in my late teens and 20s is regarding friends, which is ironic, since that's about the time I lost contact (mostly on purpose; I didn't exactly make an effort to avoid it) with what few local, "real life" friends I had. But for 10+ years now I've had a pretty tight group of friends online whom I actually share interests with (believe me, that's more than could be said about my previous RL friends), we talk all the time, and they're actually the reason I was able to do some traveling around Europe as just crashing at someone's place for a week certainly keeps costs down. Well, and my mother being willing to pay for a plane ticket if only to see me get out of the house once in a while, that was also a pretty big factor. Many people aren't nearly as lucky in that sense though. I also found who ended up being my girlfriend for almost 4 years through this group of friends, and although we unfortunately broke up a year ago due to her not being able to deal with a long distance relationship anymore (for which I can't blame her), it was still something great and I don't regret it at all, plus we're still best friends so that helps. It still hurts though, especially since it also stems from me not doing anything with myself that might have allowed us to be together.

Of course, that one aspect is quite important, so it almost makes my 20s not be so bad after all. However, I think all that kept me from just killing myself more than anything, because in every other sense I've never been so miserable as these past few years, with almost constant anxiety about the future and all kinds of shitty thoughts keeping me awake at night.

And yet typing all this only makes me think how I really don't have it bad at all compared to other people and should just quit whining. There's people out there drowning in debt, working dead-end jobs they despise (which I'd honestly find worse than having no job at all), having to care for kids in their 20s, being kicked out by their parents, having no friends at all, drug issues... compared to all that, my issue that boils down to "I have no future but the present is somewhat comfortable" kinda sounds like nothing.

Okay that came out long. If anyone actually read that, what the hell are you doing? Surely there are better ways to spend your time. :) I honestly still have half a mind to delete this just as I had half a mind to not post it in the first place because who gives a fuck really.

25, checking in. Haven't traveled in years, have no friends, and no girlfriend...all in the name of a solid post-grad job and fitness.

It feels like it's only possible to have 2 of those 5.

I struggled a lot in my early 20s too. I eventually got a job in my field and started traveling a lot. Shit didn't pick up until 27 or 28 though. Just keep grinding, and eventually you'll break through.

I’m turning 19 soon and having such a crisis I hate time

Hogwash, the best years of my grandparents lives were when they were 50-65. They traveled to Rome, went whale watching. Built a school in central america. They did whatever they wanted.

Yeah, my twenties fucking sucked. No money and shit jobs made me a sad young man. Things didn't get reasonable for me until my thirties, when I finally had some semblance of an actual career and a bit of disposable income.

And we still get lectures every fuckin day that we aren't snatching up every single opportunity because we're lazy and dont try hard enough

Travel is an excuse people use when they don't enjoy their lives and need a crutch to find meaning. "I just work to travel." What's so fulfilling about going to places where people have lives just like the one you're vacationing from? My parents weren't doing whatever they wanted in their 20's, they were struggling, and working. The picture people have painted of society only works inside the borders of a tiny instagram snapshot, or for the true anomalies. Keep working at it. Making the most of your life is having the time to do the things you enjoy more than 0% of the time.

SAME. HERE. Just turned 23 March 30th.

Dude im 22 and im telling you this is NOT where its at. Im expecting my best years will be 27-32. And i graduate college next year. The climb never stops, but it will be much much better when im making a comfortable salary. Keep on climbing!

Its a total scam, just like the people who tell you high school is the best time of your life. Its just older people who had their best time at that point. Different people enjoy different parts of their life more than others, surprising given how different people are.

I agree, I always find the "travel and have fun experiences" in your 20's theme to be a bit much. Not everyone can afford to travel. A lot of people in their 20's are working multiple jobs just to get by and that kind of makes it hard to have fun experiences and travel.

I know it's certainly not impossible. But it definitely makes it harder.

Most of my friends had kids young. If I wanted to travel, I would have to do it alone. Which I'm not really comfortable doing (I know that sounds silly, but I'm a woman). I've heard of people getting charged extra for travelling alone and I'm really not comfortable going to an unfamiliar place, far away, all by myself.

However, I do take advantage of the things that I am able to do. I take day trips and just enjoy whatever it is that I can afford to do at this time.

I've talked to many people who are older, and most of them didn't start travelling until their 40's.

I think the key here is everyone is different. But just take time to enjoy life. Take opportunities as they present themselves and try to fit in things that you enjoy into your life.

Sounds like a mid life crisis

I'm sorry but it appears you won't live past 46

Aye, I'm only 24 but I feel like I'm already too old to do anything new? Like I wanna try kickboxing and rock climbing or just pick up some sort of new hobby, but I feel like it's just too late. Like everyone started doing cool things in high school or college and now that I'm done both it's just like welp, work until I die I guess.

Also, a lot of hobbies are friggen expensive. With WHAT money am I supposed to do these fun things?

I feel you man. Like I’m staying afloat, but barely. If my engine blows or my leg breaks, I’m fuuuuucked. I hope i have more freedoms in my 30’s than 20’s

This, in my opinion, is the biggest difference between being rich and poor. Being rich means that you can afford to enjoy the freeest, healthiest, most fit days of your life for yourself. Being poor means having to give those years to someone else just to be able to live.

That hits a little too close to home...

This is the realest comment right here. Hahah

The real life pro truth is always in the comments

or you learn to live like a hippie

That only works if you're white.

This hurt to read because it's so painfully true.

That some dank ass class consciousness right there sir

I wish more people realized this

Capitalism is beautiful

cringe of the day and it's only 1:30am. fuck.

Where does being reasonably well off without being rich fall here?

Basically, the more you have, the less you HAVE to work. But, even being in the middle of the spectrum, if you aren't working, you're going to suffer later in life when you can't work as much.

I thought that, and then I realised how doable it actually is to travel and work around the world. You don't need to be rich AT ALL. The biggest drain for me all through my twenties was rent, followed by bills and commuting costs. Living in London I was spending £1000+ a month on these three essential things alone, while earning a pretty poor salary. If I wanted to take a trip, I had to factor in losing pay from not working (didn't get paid holiday) and still pay the rent at home in addition to all my trip costs.

Now I travel around the world while working remotely, my TOTAL living costs often don't exceed that £1000. It was mindblowing for me to realise this and it totally changed my perspective on everything. My former 'rent' money now pays for that Airbnb in Croatia, or that hotel in Brooklyn or that campsite in Italy. Even if you can't work remotely, there are all kinds of ways to work and live overseas that don't require much money. I wish I had grasped this in my twenties.

Sure, go ahead and downvote me. Don't say I didn't try. Hopefully at least one person will realise that there ARE alternatives to spending your twenties slaving away in some shitty job you hate, earning a salary that barely covers your rent. It's alarming how many people are programmed like sheep just to accept that 'life is like this' and make every excuse under the sun as to why they can't change things. If you have a strong passport (US, European, Canadian, etc.) and English as a first language, you have dozens of options. If you're too scared to leave your comfort zone, fine, but please quit claiming that those of us who travel are 'privileged'. I'm no more privileged than anyone else born in a Western country. I'm a single woman, I'm on the autistic spectrum, I have depression and anxiety, physical health issues requiring regular hospital visits, no financial help from family. I am willing to bet a HELL of a lot of the people reading this are luckier than I am, yet refuse to stop seeing themselves as helpless victims who will never travel in their lives. London is full of poor young people from all over the world working in service jobs, because that's a hell of a lot better than living in poverty with no job at all. If you're an able-bodied American, you can travel. You just choose not to. If you think you're too good to clean hostel toilets to cover your rent or learn another language to get by, that's on you. It's just insane to me to see so many people from one of the richest countries in the world acting like life's great victims. Go ahead and tell me there's poverty in the US, yes there is, but what percentage of the population lives without running water or clean well water? In a house without a proper roof? Without electricity? How many Americans are denied the right to leave the US, and refused visas for work overseas? Get some perspective, for God's sake. Ironically, you don't have any perspective because you don't travel. Maybe if you did, you'd realise how fucking good you have it and how many opportunities you actually have.

So how exactly did you go about getting remote work? How can you afford to travel (flights aren't cheap, experiences aren't cheap, nothing is cheap). I just stayed in a hostel in DC for 5 days- those 5 days were 1/3 of my monthly rent.

How?

I started working as a freelance translator, building up work and clients while still doing my day job until I felt reasonably sure that the freelance income alone could pay my living costs. As my initial plan was Eastern Europe, those costs were around a third of what I had been paying in London.

Flights ARE cheap in Europe if you book well in advance. I think I paid something like £22 to fly to Romania from London. As I said, I took buses from city to city because I was on a serious budget. There are cheap companies like FlixBus and PolskiBus in Poland with SUPER low fares. My first Airbnb room was around 1/4 of what I had been paying for my room in London. Food was very cheap. I'm not sure what 'experiences' is supposed to mean. I spent most of my free time walking around, exploring the cities and towns or hanging out with people I met.

When I started making more money then I could afford to fly a bit further. I think my flights to Mexico City were something like £400 return. Putting that into context - that's just about half of what my rent and bills cost in London, and I was earning almost the same money. I went for cheap (but nice) accommodation, ate tons of amazing street food and did pretty much what I wanted. Same everywhere I went. My goal is to start earning a lot more money so I can go to more places and have a slightly more luxurious life...I am not and never will be materialistic, but things like being able to afford the best areas of cities instead of the cheaper ones, or do more exciting activities like scuba diving, abseiling, surfing etc. on a regular basis would be great.

'Cheap' and 'expensive' totally depend on how much money you have and where you go. DC is a very expensive city, so yes, it's going to cost you a lot more to stay there than it would to stay in Poznan, Poland, obviously. Also short term accommodation is a lot more expensive than long term, so obviously you would book at least a month in a place to get the best deal. I generally only use hotels and hostels for short trips, but tons of hostels around the world give you a bed totally free in exchange for working a few hours a day. I know people who spend 2-3 months in a place doing that. It's not my ideal option personally because I prefer to spend that time doing my own work (got a big project in progress right now), but it is an option.

As an American, this is insanity.

No, you and many of your countrymen just have this bizarre attitude that this isn't possible for you. You literally have one of the strongest passports in the entire world, and you speak English as a first language. Both of these are advantages plenty of people would kill to have. You can make a living (if not a super lucrative one) teaching English alone, without any other marketable skills. You can even do it online now, so you can travel and work. Americans are generally preferred over any other native English speaker for English teaching work, especially in Asia and Latin America. And you're as free to do any other online/remote work as any other nationality, again, even more so since many companies prefer or will only hire US citizens.

I know tons of Americans who are doing exactly what I do, travelling and working remotely. Sure, maybe your initial airfare will be a little higher if you want to come over to Europe, but that's literally it. Once you're here, you can do exactly what I did. You get 90 days in the Schengen zone, then you can go to any or several of the many non-Schengen countries in the region. I recently met an Argentinian girl who is doing this on a SUPER low budget, volunteering in hostels for free rent and board and doing freelance graphic design work the rest of the time (she only has to volunteer 3-4 hours per day). You also have Mexico right on your doorstep (flights surely can't be that much and cost of living is much lower than just about any major city in the US), and the whole of Central and South America a cheaper and shorter flight away than I do.

I genuinely don't get why so many Americans think they can't do this. Is it some kind of brainwashing from your government or something? Something to do with it being a country of immigrants rather than emigrants? Why can't you see the opportunities and possibilities you have?

The only reason I’m not in this situation is because my dad doesn’t care that I live with him, even though I’m 24.

Nearly 27, have a full time job and pay my half of everything. Mother still cooks for me and does my laundry though 😂

Nothing wrong with that, waste heaps of money moving out for no reason

Kick in the butt is what you need. I didnt get my kick which sucks. I had to keep fighting with my mom until I couldn't take it anymore. I moved out at the age of 26. Late. But it could be worse, I know a guy who lives with his parents, doesn't work, buys trips with parents credit card (they're not rich), and goes to restaurants at least once a week. And when father tries to force him to grow up at least a little, the mom gives the dad crap for it... His parents hooked him up with a job at an airport. Benefits, good pay. He quit the same day. He said it was too difficult.

I think you're getting downvoted because you're talking about something different. There are definitely unmotivated people in their twenties who should be pushed to find career paths. What most people above you are talking about is people in their twenties working their ass off who still can't afford to move out because of the disparity between cost of living and wages.

I thought so too, and then i realised that my standards of living are way too high. I keep seeing people work in factories for minimum wages, have a place to live, have food, and somehow support a family. And it all takes place in Toronto, an expensive city to live in. Also I keep hearing people complain g that there's no work, that it's hard to find a good playing job etc., but it's insane how many people beg me to find them workers in construction. And they pay 17$/h(canadian) minimum. I've been in verious construction jobs for 10 years now, since I was 17, and it's insane how many entitled people I've met. Some don't wanna work hard, some want more pay, some say they have experience, while in reality they don't. They get higher pay off the bat and don't show up to work the next day. Ive had people tell me the work is too hard in pipe insulation industry... Ask anyone around job site, one of the easier jobs in condos. Recently had someone's mother desperately look for a job for her son. My boss ALWAYS needs workers, so I give each other contacts, tell to call each other etc.. Boss never got a call. He tried to call the guy him self, never picked up.

I personally make way above average and I still think it's not enough. I keep crying about it, but i know it's my own fault. I'm just lazy. I should work harder, build my own company. About others I can just speculate, but from what I've seen in the last 10 years of job hopping, is just that.

Ah okay. I didn't realize you were Canadian, so I can't really comment anymore.

My window broke. So I fixed that after 6 months of driving with no window. Then someone hit it a week later and it broke again. They also slashed my tire. My alternator was in the process of going, and now after sitting most of the winter in a parking lot the alternator and battery are both Dead, tire is still foat, window is still busted, and my license is expired. And I lost my job.

I'm 21 with a broken leg, broke, tired, jobless . I wanna die

Your leg will heal and you will get a job and no long be broke. You just have to hold on for another day, and when that day comes hold on for another. And so on and so forth, until one day you realize you’re no longer 21, your leg isn’t broke, you’re not broke, tired or jobless. Doesn’t mean anything right now, but eventually it will.

Don’t forget that most people thought John Krasinski was already great when The Office first started and he was 25-26. But now look at how much he’s improved in his mid/late 30s.

My experience has been that you work insanely hard in your 20’s so you can have the financial and job security to enjoy your 30’s/40’s.

40+ here, still trying to work our asses off. Even more so. Yeah.

I worked my arse off from 18-23 and have a job that pays a decent amount, and I don't have to work too hard. It's nice to kick back, have a car, buy nice stuff and not have to worry about the little things.

Uh yeah, maybe for the Baby Boomers it was like that. All the thirty somethings I know are every bit as broke as they were in their twenties, even after working their asses off for a decade.

Worked for me

Man same, everyone is like “this is the best time of your life” and I’m thinking if thats the case I could just not live at all

I don't know if this is of any help, but my 20's were not my best year by a long shot. My 30's were better and my 40's are amazing so far.

Of course I'd love to look and have the body I had in the 20's (especially the eat everything and not gain a pound bit), but I've 'made it' in every other sense and frankly have no interest in going back.

Just like you never want to be the kid who peaked in high school, you don't want to peak in your 20's. Growth doesn't ever stop, unless you choose to stop growing.

Having said that, broke or not, now's the time to take (smart) risks. Following a passion and/or going bankrupt has a lot less riding on it now than it does in 10-20 years when personal ruin could upset decades of work and put not only yourself, but your family and children at risk.

Your 20’s can be fun but honestly my 30’s and 40’s were better for a multitude of reasons: I grew up some which led to- I became more financially stable. I realized what made me happy and what I should avoid. I learned to say No to a lot of things and people without feeling guilty. I also had a wonderful relationship that started coincidentally when I grew up some- late 20’s. Life can get easier. I would like to tell you my 50’s are great too but my wife passed away a little after she turned 50 so life can also kick you in the teeth- so learn what you enjoy, save some money if you can and hopefully you will fall in love and stay in love for a long time.

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Staying alive wasn’t a mistake! There are ups and downs, but I’m really sorry you feel that way. If you ever want to talk to someone or just vent off, feel free to DM me — noone should have to go through thoughts like that on their own.

Hang in there, and if it gets bad know there are places and folks that can help even if you can’t afford it.

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Glad to hear that. My mind is messed up too and I know what it’s like, but I’m also hopeful at the same time. I’m really sad now, but I can only feel this because I’ve experienced some definition of happiness in the past and this is the contrast point. At least it will help me hold more tightly to that happy feeling once I find it again.

May you find your inner peace, fellow Redditor. 💛

Check your thyroid

I always hear 30s are where it's at, so you have that to look forward to :)

I lack money to travel, I lack money because I can’t get a fucking job, I’m depressed and lonely because I can’t get a job and because I’ve just moved to a new city. I feel like I’m wasting this year away, I have nothing to keep me going, feel completely useless and apathetic. And my parents think I’m just lazy. 23 is sucking a lot right now. I feel like this thread should be what I need to kick me in the ass and keep on going, but man I just feel even worse.

Are you a native English speaker? If so, get a job teaching English overseas. Best thing I ever did.

I'm almost forty and my life just started to hit the sweet spot. If your twenties are the best years of your life, you're doing it wrong imo.

yeah, I'll be honest, if it's downhill from here, that sounds like as good a reason as any for suicide, because it's pretty shit now.

I much prefer the hope that it gets better later, rather than consistently worse.

Honestly, I’m 33 and things are waaaaaaaaay more awesome than they were in my 20’s.

Yeah this guy really said travel like every other tard who thinks I should be globetrotting without a career and serious cashflow. Nothing pisses me off more than people who think other people have parents with money too.

Travelling isn't nearly as expensive as you think it is. If you dont have kids you can definitely afford to take a vacations.

Consider trains instead of planes. Stay at holiday inn style places instead of resort hotels. Book well in advance, and during off-months.

I used to tell myself i couldmt afford it until i actually looked at it. I would set aside 50 bucks a paycheck and take a nice vacation every October. Now i cam afford to go more often, but if you really want to it's doable.

No years are the best years of your life.

The 20s are just unique it consistently gets better

People project and people have very distorted views about their past. "Oh, why didn't I do ____ when I was younger," often has a very good answer, but people forget all the reasons why not.

Your 20's are a time of great uncertainty, namely career, but also lifestyle priorities, family, personal growth/development, etc. It's a lot, and it's entirely understandable to get down/overwhelmed about it.

People have all different kinds of life trajectories. Don't sweat it, just try to keep moving.

30’s have been way better, but I got my shit together and that’s why.

Honestly, I think your 30s are the best because you know (more of) what you enjoy and have the means to do it.

Honestly, some people's "best years of your life" can start as late as in their 30s. Heck, I've seen a ~50 y.o. Asian man with the body of fockin Adonis and looks like hes still in his 20s.

Are you a native English speaker? Go travel and teach English

Energy has a lot to do with how you live. I used to think that I was healthy, but after changing my diet I have an incredible amount of energy compared to what I used to have, just by making sure I'm getting the right nutrition and eating less garbage. My awful awful job that I left also made me feel a lot more energetic. You can do things, and you can feel better, you've just got to make the necessary changes. You can do it!

I lack the money, the time, or the energy. 20, married, in the army working 12 hours a day minimum

Good news is you'll probably be divorced after your next deployment so there goes one obstacle.

He'll have his charger tho

Nice positivity there champ

/s

Tell me, do you know what a Jody is?

No, no idea, is his wife a Jody?

Please enlighten me.

Edit: Lol get down voted for not knowing what something is and asking

Jody is the dude banging your broad while you're deployed.

Wow they have a name that's ruthless

It was the opposite for me. My Wife was in the Army and turned from a faithful person to a whore in like 3 months of being deployed. We divorced rather quickly after that. At least she had the decency to tell me.

Wow damn I guess you army guys have it rough. Like you say at least she told you, but damn that's rough. If it's not bad enough that you have to go and fight for your country, women can't even stay faithful. Systems fucked.

She was in the Army not me. I was a civilian at the time.

Ohhhhhh i misread that but damn the male to female ratio in the army must be horrendous

Two names actually. It's also called a Sanchez.

I don't know what the origin for either name is

Fucking Jodie.

/r/2meirl4meirl

that's pretty callous, dude

Just curious, why are you married at 20?

The earliest i could possible see myself getting married is 28 - 30, and i have been in a long term relationship since i left high school, 24 now.

Also married and also in the military. It’s kind of culture to marry younger than civilian side. The military incentivizes marriage.

Assuming the benefits are good for the spouse?

Yep. Like he said. Early marriage is super common.

Sounds like a recipe for a mid life crisis.

20, married

That's your biggest mistake there.

being in the army, and married at the age of 20, man that's just bad. Why would you subject yourself to that?

Every day is a crisis Haha

Positive Spin: if Trump gets pissed enough at another nation, you might get a free vacation!

20, married, in the army working 12 hours a day minimum

Well there are the three mistakes you made all in one sentence.

Think it might be a conspiracy or just a result of modern life? People in their 20s in any other generation didn't have the same sort of energy problems

that's cause like 90% of people these days don't know how to eat right, sit around all day, and stay up all night watching Netflix.

Was gonna say I’m 25 and feel like a vampire sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a bitch

25 is the most stressful shit I have dealt with. Hahah

The depressed persons midlife crisis.

Haha, because you die young!

I'm 25 and I keep tryin to remind myself that what doesn't kill me makes me stronger. That said, I am not yet mentally stable and well adjusted, and boy HOWDY do my lows get fucking loooow. Graduating college is a chaotic experience. Hopefully i can come to terms with it and make sense of it within the next few years. Till then, just gotta weather the mood swings and try to enjoy my good moods when i have em (and the fact that i have em often is a recent change, so I'm thankful for that).

Hey mate, as someone who finally got on medication and into therapy, get help as soon as you can. It's only up from there. You can do it. <3

I appreciate the words my friend, today was especially hard but it’s only up and if everyone can seem to make it through life we’re no different, we got this.

For sure! 100% get help if you can afford it, though. there's no reason to feel this shitty when we don't need to. I hope tomorrow is better for you!!

Do you ever go walking? Walking or hiking is what got me out of depression. So many times I just sat in my apartment playing games or thinking the world past me by then I just started to walk. Sometimes I would even drive or ride the bus a ways out and just walk a little around wherever for a change in scenery. Eventually bought a small camera and started taking pictures / talk to strangers. If you ever feel the need to talk send me a pm

I really should, there’s so much wilderness where I’m from too it’s almost a shame I don’t go outside and look at stuff more. Worked outside with my dad today and I feel great about being in the sun for a while. 10/10 advice man I appreciate it

I won’t lie either I still have lows, but this helps a lot. I also started to try and pick up at least 1 piece of trash a day. That way I can always say I did something positive that day. I also try really hard to eat healthier which also seems to help, but this is by far harder than my walks.

Exercise and go outside more. I't cannot hurt anything. Just try it, please.

Regular hiking helped me a lot. It's good to get outside sometimes.

I did bodybuilding for a year and a half lol helped in terms of confidence but I ended up more worried about my appearance than was healthy haha I love to workout and I’ve learned a good balance :) my moms side is riddled with crippling depression and I tried to run from it my whole life instead of learn to cope, it’s a process! :)

Well then I usually would put you on a diet of campfire parties, cooking steaks and brats, and a healthy serving of beer. I know this might not be good advice, but what is the harm in any of that. Keep it to beer. Kinda hard to black out on beer.

Hahaha I was whiskey guy in college 😏 to be real honest I was in vet medicine school for a year while juggling a (didn’t know at the time) actual bipolar and manipulative girlfriend. Hated both of them and realized I was about to build a life that I would hate, and hate myself for letting it happen. Also quitting weed was huge, anyone who says weed isn’t addictive is a liar, because I compounded all my anxiety with weed and fitness and let it manifest inside. I learned my mom is a narcissist, my dad an alcoholic. I wasn’t told these things by anybody and felt angry that I had to figure them out by making the same mistakes they did, but if I didn’t learn them myself no one would have taught me. I’m in school again but going to apply to human medical school in a year and a half, using this time to focus on me and what I need to do to be happy, and that happy doesn’t mean a feeling, it means a state of being, like content. I moved home, got a job, stopped all social media, and enrolled in school and after 6 months I honestly feel very good. It was my first time far away from home and I think the “oh fuck real life is hard as hell” hit me at a later age than most people, so I wasn’t ready to deal with it.

Sorry for the book tl;dr- it’s honestly a personality problem that I need to work on, and I’m getting there ☺️ I started to “grow up”

It's Ok man. I swam in HS and college and was pretty damn good. Sometimes the water was the only place my mind was quiet. You could hear faint noises from up above, but mostly it was just you under there. I was one of the shortest males in my high school, and I tried my best to not let it bother me but it did. Even in my adult life, I sometimes wish to be taller.

Go outside and have some BBQ, go look at all the weird bugs and what not. Have a campfire and tell stories. Be the campfire guy.

You’re a really good guy, I’m on the verge of tears because you’re the first person I’ve honestly just talked with on a personal level in a long time. I sincerely wish the best for you, and you’ll get it being the kind of person you are.

Gonna see what my old buddies are up to this weekend and maybe shoot the shit with them over a couple of beers, thanks.

I am not depressed all the time. But I do get very depressed where I can't get out of bed, but I have to, I am the big boss. Where you live dude? All kinds of fun shit here on reddit. Maybe I can point you in the right direction?

Have a sleep study. I wish I'd done that in my early 20s.

Turns out life is really different when you're not always exhausted.

How to do dis?

Yeah what is this

I believe OP's referring to (edit: sleep disorders like) sleep apnea, which is where you'll periodically stop breathing during your sleep. It wakes you up (but not long enough to remember) and you start breathing again, but because you keep waking up your sleep is shitty the whole night through.

Sleep studies diagnose it, you just spend a night with some sensors monitoring your breathing. My dad just got diagnosed in his 50s and my roommate at 22, so it's worth looking into! Easily treated condition.

Isn't the machine somewhat of a hassle, or have they advanced the technology?

They've advanced it quite a bit. My Dad was diagnosed years ago and the machine seemed to be a pain. I was just recently diagnosed and the setups they have now are pretty slick. I'm 32 and regretting not going sooner as I've spent far too much of my adult life in an exhausted haze.

I really need to look into this. I’m always so fucking tired and I have no idea why. ~8 hours of sleep each night at 22

Definitely do that. That's how I am. 8 hours, 12 hours, it doesn't matter. Woke up with headaches a lot and can fall asleep pretty well anywhere since I'm always tired.

I'm 29, in shape and been on CPAP for a year now. I had no idea that being exhausted every waking minute of life wasn't normal. Much happier and more energetic now. The machine is an inconvenience, but the pros outweigh the cons tenfold.

Just got one at 35. The machine is silent while running, and they have a variety of options when it comes to the mask, so you can ensure comfort. It takes some getting used to still, but my first night I got three hours of sleep and was STILL better rested than I had been in years. I'm about a week in it now, and I sleep 7 and a half hours exactly and wake up like someone flipped a switch. No longer tired all the time, no longer falling asleep in meetings, no longer napping when I get home from work. Just fully rested and feeling energized. It's fucking amazing.

I know some people who have the mouth piece rather than the machine

Yeah it's definitely a hassle to clean, and it can take some trial and error to find a mask that is comfortable for you, but they're pretty noiseless now and my parents and friend find the benefits worth it.

That's what sleep studies do and correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they do it for every sleep related issues. Sleep apnea isn't the only one diagnosed through it.

You're totally right, I should have made that clearer. Edited!

There are MANY other sleep disorders in addition to sleep apnea which can be diagnosed or at least narrowed down through a sleep study. I am planning on getting one done within the year. I sleep 6-10 hours during the week and 12-14 hours on the weekends and it's never enough. I remember the very large majority of my dreams...I feel like I dream all night vividly. I don't think I'm hitting the right sleep phases for long enough.

In case it helps anyone, The biggest QoL difference and improvement to my sleep has been limiting my caffeine intake to the early morning, and being very strict about it. I dream less/don't pay attention to my dreams and I wake up slightly more rested.

Yeah you're right, I should have noted that sleep apnea was just one example. Yours definitely sounds interesting, hopefully a sleep study helps you as much as it did my family and friends!

I was (likely falsely) diagnosed with narcolepsy, and based on all I learned about it, you are narcoleptic. If you get a sleep study and MSLT (Multiple Sleep Latency Test) done, assuming the diagnosis is narcolepsy, you have a number of options including meds for wakefulness and/or meds to give you more deep sleep. Unfortunately there isn't anything that can get at the root cause yet.

I checked in with my doctor personally. I was talking to him about not having any energy and not being able to wake up easily, and being able to sleep up to 14 hours at a time if no alarms or people are around to wake me (sometimes even if alarms or people are involved). He asked me if I wake up with headaches (Family and I have migraines all the time so I thought nothing of it). He suggested a sleep study and we scheduled it. Turns out I had pretty bad sleep apnea. Sleep study was 5 hours long I think I had something around 200 episodes I stopped breathing, and had a high score around 90 seconds not breathing. I was in REM sleep for a total of 15 minutes and felt like death, and was easily confused.

They asked me how long it felt like I slept and I didn't understand the question because every time I go to sleep it feels like I shut my eyes for 10 minutes and am just getting to sleep and BAM its 10 hours later and I have a pissed off family member trying to wake me basically telling me I am a lazy piece of shit. If you have ever been put under for an operation and woke up feeling like someone punched you in the face. That is how I slept for as long as I could remember.

Woah I no joke describe taking naps and sleeping to people as, “do you ever wake up and feel like someone punched you in the face?” I know my father has sleep apnea but I sleep on my stomach to “avoid” it, I may need to talk to my doctor about it. Dang.

Go to bed at 10 pm.

I can't sleep if I go to bed earlier than 11.

For me, I just experimented to determine when I can go to bed and wake up the next morning for the optimal energy experience while still having time to do stuff before and after work, which for me seems to be going to bed at 1230AM - 130AM and then waking up between 730AM - 830AM

You get used to it.

Just read in bed until you get sleepy, and not from a device.

That's the other thing though. After 9 pm is the only time of day where I can usually stop worrying about any obligations, turn my brain off, and just relax on the internet/with a videogame for a few hours. I want that time to last as long as possible, and I want to put off waking up the next day (and thus worrying about stuff I need to do) as long as possible.

Yeah, so don’t do that for a couple weeks and see how you feel

10-11pm bedtimes and 6am mornings made me miserable. I much prefer going to bed at 2am and getting up at 8. Traffic is better too.

What didn't you like about it?

I'm just not a morning person. I don't really feel awake until noon, and then I feel energized until the AMs.

Sooo if you're unwilling to change what's the problem then?

Fair enough.

It's definitely a tradeoff, but you also may find yourself with that time available in the morning once you get used to a healthier sleep schedule! I have similar issues, and I have trouble falling asleep on time if I didn't get enough "dicking around" time, but if I make a concerted effort to sleep about 1030 or 11 pm for a few days in a row I feel amazing

I've been in the same trap. Get in bed at 10pm. It helps.

Stay up all night on a Friday, go to bed early the next day. Boom. Sleep cycle reset.

Change slowly. Go to bed earlier in 15 minute increments. Try 10:45 for a week. Then 10:30 fire another week. Continue until 10.

My rotating shifts would like a word

If I stay up that late, I only get 7 hours of sleep, assuming the baby/dog/wife/brain doesn't wake me up 17 times in that time frame.

Realistically, its insanely frustrating to me that my only "free" time, with zero obligations to family or kids is past 9:30 when all the kids are in bed, but half the time, I want to go to bed before them because I'm fucking tired. So really, when does dad get "free" time??

Answer? The weekends, when you leave daddy the fuck alone from 9:30 Friday night, until he gets home Monday from work, and under no circumstance do you wake him up Saturday or Sunday, even if the house is burning down, I'll get up on my own, or I'll go down with my flaming ship.

But I work until 11pm...

Then you don't need to get up early. Just get 8 hours sleep.

Might be easiest to go through military or other public sector job.

Be able to take a month off work.

Tell your doc you can't make it through a day without a nap. I haven't had a sleep study yet but I just got a referral and man I hope they can fix my exhaustion.

No wonder I'm fat, I'm only awake for about 12 hrs a day

I was extremely thin my entire life, like bullied for being skinny up until a few years ago I can’t keep weight off if I tried, I think we may be in a similar boat

Have you gotten a sleep study? Or your thyroid checked? I have hypothyroid but t3 really helped me there for a bit but not enough to keep me awake lol

What's the difference? My friends always say I choke in my sleep

My friends always say I choke in my sleep

So you probably have sleep apnea. If so, you're not getting restful sleep. Are you overweight? That's usually a major cause of sleep apnea (extra flesh/weight on neck/upper chest from being overweight). A cpap machine or even just a mouth guard might help. Also getting healthy.

Had it all my life! I'm athletic maybe twelve percent body far. What are the steps to getting one of these machines and can you compare before and after

I got diagnosed and began treating it at 25.

5 hours of sleep now feels like 7 used to

Awesome! Did you have breathing issues too? My nostrils often alternate between being plugged so I have too be a mouth breather

Somewhat.

I definitely feel like I can breathe more easily all around.

This implies we have health insurance that can get us a sleep study.

Sleep studies don't cure depression and anxiety. :(

I did this and they found nothing...

Aren't those studies stupidly expensive though? That's pretty much been the reason why I never got one even though I am certain I have sleep apnea.

Thought I was getting old and tired. Diagnosed with narcolepsy at 29. There’s a whole new world of stuff to do late at night again.

Yeah I have some form of apnea, per comments from people who have slept near me

I just... stop breathing? Meh.

I just did one, turns out I have sleep apnea! I get my cpap machine in May. If it makes me 10% less tired in the morning I’ll be so happy

Fair warning, for some people it takes some getting used to and you may have more trouble sleeping for a month or so? But once you're used to sleeping with the mask it is amazing and you will wonder how you lived without it for so long.

I'm so fucking glad I'm moving out my current place in two weeks. Roommate stays up to 2-3am almost daily and is constantly loud. It totally fucked me up when I used to have good sleep.

Fuck them, the inconsiderate fucking cunt ate my ice cream too.

You get 30 days paid vacation per year.

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"It was good, until people from 400-year-old Digg came over."

I have no money.

Bruh this has been me since like 15

1 year isnt that bad

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Lol I'm in my 20s

I have no exergy

Have you tried using a basis other than pure water at sea-level?

Eat healither food

I am and I still feel like shit

You might want to get your vitamin levels checked. My B12 and Vitamin D were in the gutter. I'm on supplements now and my energy level has done a 180.

Go outside walk a mile it takes 15 mins 30 with pre and post. focus on your breathing and pace.

Also really look at what your eating check if its really healthy. Eating healthy can be cheap my friend eats great for $45 a week. They also work 45+ hours and go to law school full time. So anything is possible

Also, if you're drinking, even just a couple of beers every night - do you body and your wallet a favor and cut back, just saving it for special occasions. You'll have more money, you'll be skinnier, and you'll be surprised how much energy you have. Drinking lowers sleep quality, too, and it's something a lot of 20 somethings do through their weeks.

Gonna add exercise to this. Just go for a walk for 20-30 minutes every day. You will feel your body bounce back within 2 weeks. Even better if you can get some strength or interval training in. Your heart, lungs, muscles, and bones will thank you.

Backing this up

I'll third. "You are what you eat" has always and will always be true. I don't understand how people can live off oreos and doritos and coke and fast food and assume it has nothing to do with their lack of energy, their deteriorating bodies and minds, their poor motivation, their sleep qualtiy, their relationships, etc. Food affects everything! Problem is, bad food is engineered to make you crave more bad food, so unless you force yourself out of that spiral it will never stop.

Damn. I must be like 90% Whiskey then.

Is the other 10% steak? If so it probably balances out.

I don't understand how people can live off oreos and doritos and coke and fast food and assume it has nothing to do with their lack of energy, their deteriorating bodies and minds, their poor motivation, their sleep qualtiy, their relationships, etc.

Because they probably did just that when they were young kids and it had no (or minimal) ill effect. Once you get into your late teens and 20's, it's like, 'it can't be my diet. I eat the same things I have my whole life and I used to be fine.'

There was a serious, serious lack of nutritional education here for a while both through intentionally misleading by large corporations and just a general lack of concern on the subject. Things are shifting a bit but it shouldn't be too difficult to understand how this problem was created in the first place.

He eats apples..

This sounds very insensitive, some young people are chronically ill and therefore have no energy to go out and do fun things.

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/r/wowthanksimcured

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17 percent. Lifetime prevalence in the US.

And work out. It's amazing how much more energy I have just to get through the day. I can even go out and have a few beers two days in a row again.

sounds expensive

THE LARGER POINT IS POOR AMERICANS CANT AFFORD TO EAT BETTER YOU NECKBEARDS. YOU THINK THEY BUY THE SHIT THEY EAT BY CHOICE?

Sounds like an excuse

It really isn't, /r/mealprepsunday /r/EatCheapAndHealthy are both great subreddits to look through for ideas.

The key is to plan out your meals and buy bulk.

Yup, if you have access to the internet, as anyone posting on reddit clearly does, then you have access to information that will let you cheaply and efficiently eat healthy.

Expensive = Time and Money

Mean Prep Sunday? I already hate spending time cooking normally! Now I'm going to waste an entire DAY?!

It's not.

I switched from eating like crap to preparing my own meals most days 2 months ago. The amount of money I'm saving is insane. Also I'm losing weight without feeling hungry all the time.

Go look at the price of fresh fruit, veg and raw meat in the shops compared to other packaged food and tell me its not cheaper. Obviously organic super healthy free range whatever the fuck stuff is pricey but buying produce and preparing it will be cheaper.

That sounds like something worth getting pissed off about. Like demanding better pay from employers and politicians.

Get a better paying job

"Just be better than you are"

An array of heavy mental disorders, desperately working 60 hour weeks to cover rent, taking care of all the family I have who happen to be in the shape of furry things. Life isn’t how it used to be for 20 year olds. The economy has majorly changed and so has job structure, school, etc. numbers are all there. I feel this on a deep level.

Edit: People can also work 30 hour weeks with just mental illness and junk going on get off your high horses. Not everyone is obese eating gross and not exercising

I have no life

I have no money

And you're going to have even less!

The people that say the 20s are the best years of your life are living in the past.

I bet I could throw that football over dem mountains! If only coach put me in during the championship in '83. - uncle Rico

Eat better, exercise, and get into good sleeping habits

25 years here as well. I’m exhausted lol

I was told that college and my 20s were the "Best Years Of Your Life". Nope, they were a living shitshow for me because of an underdiagnosed/treated mental illness.

I'm in my 30s and doing okay now. These are probably the best years of my life, so I'm enjoying them now.

That said -- if you have any emotional or psychological aberrations, please, please, get treated. Save yourself and others a lot of suffering.

Story of my life ever since high school really

Why does reddit perpetually upvote depressing shit like this. I’d actually be dumbfounded if the top reply was, “wow, I really think I’m going to do that!”

Because most people are down-trodden and content to be so. Corroborating with the like-minded gives a sense of halfassed meh, like bitching about work during break instead of carrying on a long-standing chess match, reading a book, scribbling doodles, whatever

My life’s great. Go be not depressed over your own not shit somewhere else

So many content to stew in complacency and willful ignorance of their everyday potential to enrich their lives in any meaningful way

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Really scrutinize how expensive vegetarian, healthy eating is. Make an excel sheet, google some research for recipes, compare prices between stores

I spend the most money eating shittily because I’m never full

Look up a meal, know your portion, eat your portion, stop

Now listen here you little shit

It’s the sugar, man

Do you stuggle with sleep or are you genuinely exhausted by what you do? If sleep is a problem, doing more and actually tiring myself out has helped me sleep better and in turn be better rested.

Yeah I used to run, crunch, push-up and weightlift myself to sleep. Stopped doing that. Big mistake

At the very least take walks/flail to music at some point in your day. I'm at my worst when I don't even do that.

I just wanted to reply to you to say even if it's not really my beeswax and I don't know your specific situation, so maybe this is not possible for you, but, if it is even a little bit, i think you should try to do stuff anyway, even if you're tired.

I don't mean, blow all your money and go on a surprise trip to Europe, I feel like, because of social media and instagram stars, and Youtube, that kinda thing. You're really exposed to people that can afford to do this and live a great life of travel and adventure. When the reality of it is, I think most of us have jobs/lives/poorness that prevents that. I honestly don't know many people in their 20s that just up and go on surprise vacations to wherever.

But I mean, even if you're tired and tell yourself you'll do it some other day, push yourself to go out and do something new anyway. I'm only saying this because I'm 23 and only just started to realize all of the things I never did because i was tired, or because i couldn't get anybody to do it with me. and it's been helping me a lot to push myself to try new things anyway.

I pretty much have always been very cheap, when I was a kid, I was the "mom" of the group. going into high school, I never drank, went to parties or went out, just studied. When i got to college, it was the same routine. I only ever drove out and spent money on gas for work or chores. Besides the odd steam sale every now and then, I rarely spend on stuff I don't need. The problem was that I spent/do spend so much time at home doing nothing that it was starting to weigh on me, feeling like my life was being wasted away. It's helped me to start small.

Just little stuff, like driving down a country road I've never been down, shopping for clothes alone (which is great because I can come and go on my own time) going to a store that's new in town, going out and trying a new restuaraunt. I even went hiking solo for three hours to a place I'd been trying to convince people into seeing forever, and it was actually really peaceful. I ran into really friendly people, I saw new things, and I got to stretch my legs.

It's been really good for me, and most of the things were cheap/low cost mini adventures. I spend most nights at home watching netflix and it was starting to bring me pretty down, and I've found that since I've started doing this, I'm doing much better. Most days I did this stuff, I didn't want to when i thought about going, but when I actually did it, I felt really satisfied and was glad I did.

It's up to you, but I hope you think about it. Good luck either way.

Maybe. But lemme tell ya something, you will have even LESS energy later on.

So whatever you have in the tank now, USE IT.

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Yeah, fatigue is a mindset and all that. I’m a firm advocate, sure. Just meh

I have no money

Wait twenty years and laugh at this.

If you live somewhere where its reasonably warm at night, go on night walks.

Its so much more calming that way and after going for a walk youll be more energized.

Get your thyroid checked

And just think. You will never have more than you do now.

As a 35 year old, trust me. You can have less energy. Doing anything other than work takes a 10 minute internal debate. It's so sad.

Its been like that for me since 15. RIP

Every year I say I have no energy. And then look back and say "I had so much energy this is bullshit". But I still have fun so it doesn't matter. But if I could go back I would have attempted to work out.

Work with elderly people for a bit. You have no idea how much you can push yourself as someone in their 20s then wake up the next day completely fine. I don't mean booze, I mean physical exertion. One elderly chap couldn't even get himself from the chair to the bed. He had a heart issue and so he'd stand up, we'd swivel him round with a rotunda (a small platform with a base that turns) and he'd collapse back down. He was in the hospital for a week and because they don't have time to do exercise there, he came out a week later with basically no energy and we had to "build up" to standing again. Standing for even the 5 seconds it took to swivel him would absolutely shatter him. When you start exercise it'll feel like your breaking your body down, but everything you do will come back stronger the next day. It's the benefit of youth, having no energy is something you can turn round super fast.

same dawg. am 23 but feel 32

Or money. I can't afford it.

Sometimes I’m able to get out of bed before 3pm. Usually I wake up at 8, then fall asleep immediately and wake up at 10:20 then fall asleep again and wake up at 3.

I mean, I did that when I was taking mood stabilizers my sophomore year of college, passing out studying, during tests, during class, on vacation. Hitting snooze so often I pissed the bed

Wake up

I'll add that I also have very little free time. My job keeps me busy all the time.

Serious Q: do you eat well? get enough sleep? exercise?

I had no energy a couple years ago and coupled with a stressful / busy job, I felt exhausted every single day. These three things were transformative. They're hard for me to maintain but it's so worth it.

I have no money "Go travel" yeah I have to work to get money to travel and 50% of that goes to rent

I don't know if you already do, but if not, exercise! It seems counterintuitive when you're already tired but it will help if you stick to it.

If you're already exercising and it isn't helping... try cocaine?

Cocaine has a meaningful m half life of like 30 minutes. Non-meth-amphetamines are better. Or the normal, healthy things everyone’s suggesting

But I like where your head’s at

You think you have no energy. Wait until your mid-50s when you REALLY have no energy.

Dude i wish i could gild this, so relatable it hurts

Time to exercise and eat better then!

Exercise helps with that especially at our age. A body in motion stays in motion.

Exercise. I used to have no energy but now that I've made a habit of going to the gym I have more energy than I know what to do with!

I have no energy either. All day. Constantly feel like I'm gonna fall asleep and can't get it to stop. We're gonna get through this somehow, dude.

I’m eager for the day when I’m the same age as my colleagues, and so am not disrespected for my inexperience

Possibly the most astounding experience of my life was my hair going gray and my hairline receding slightly in my early 30's. It largely happened over the course of about a year while I worked at the same places, doing the same jobs. Dark hair, my suggestions were not taken seriously. Gray hair and less of it, it was like flipping a freakin' switch, people started taking my suggestions seriously. I didn't get any smarter, and I didn't gain any significant amount of experience over that year... I just wasn't "that know-it-all kid" anymore.

O good, so I’m right!

Yeah most of my coworkers are double-triple my age. And assholes. I’m now an asshole. But also a bitch

Really tryna crank my shit to become chief asshole

good comment <3

Eat better exercise more.

When you’re the same age as your colleagues one day you’ll wish that you were younger / regret not taking advantage of the opportunities that were available to you.

Pretty much this. Being younger does NOT equate more energy, especially in your 20’s. By that time so many factors have set in and you’re just trying to deal with your upbringing and learning to function. The people with the most energy I noticed have balanced lifestyles and healthy relationships. Unfortunately that is becoming a rare thing.

“Energy” is a decision.

This man 20's

ik the feeling I make $5-10k less than my coworkers because i am 10 years younger and don't have kids and a family to support. Pretty sweet job anyways though, they are paying for some of my certs and I'm probably moving out of state in a fee years.

Consider checking out your health. I lost a good chunk of my 20s to an undiagnosed autoimmune disease.

From experience, energy comes from exercise, never the other way around.

Not once in my life have I thought "I feel rested, I'm going to go for a run"
It's always been "I need to get out there or I'll feel gross inside and lethargic, okay let's go"

The more I go, the more energy I get over time, the better I sleep, the more I want to go to bed instead of staying up late, drinking and playing games.

It makes me want to change my priorities as it starts feeling good, and I want more of that. And so on it goes.

But.... You've got to make the first move. And just keep moving.

As for "best years of your life" I met an 80 (90??) yr old who kayaked the Antarctic, and I know someone who competes in massive mountain biking challenges like The Epic who is in their 40s or 50s, so life is always good, but taking advantage of being younger is definitely good!

try a plant based diet for 2weeks

I’m in crippling debt

I was just reminded this morning that I'll have about $70,000 in debt when I graduate in two years. I'm 20.

I'm pursuing a profitable degree, but my parents just didn't save, and now I'm on the hook for every cent that it costs to get my degree. I'm doing everything I can to make the right financial decisions, but sometimes it just seems like there aren't any.

I’ve started travelling to nearby cities/states lately. It’s not as expensive as most people think and it all depends on when you book flights and stuff. It’s really fun!! I know some people prefer to work now and travel later but if you can do both at the same time then why the fuck not?

Yeah, I can barely afford to "travel", but a few short roadtrips a year keeps me from being totally sick of where I'm living right now.

I’m getting sick of LA so these weekend trips to SF give me life

Thats what me and my GF do. We live around Houston so there are 4 big travel destinations just a 3ish hour drive away.

Absolutely this. You have way more energy to enjoy traveling now than you would be at retirement. A friend of mine recently traveled to NYC with her grandmother and, while she enjoyed spending time with her, she found herself bored for most of the time because grandma was constantly taking naps and tired from the overstimulation.

I get pretty tired already when travelling so I bet it’s gonna be so much worde when I’m that old.

Oh yeah! Even if it's for a day trip or just staying overnight. It's great to get away and explore new places! I've been solo traveling for almost 9 years now and I've seen so many amazing places and met so many great people along the way.

When you're in your 20s you have the energy to sleep 3 hours a night to catch the cheap super early flight and recover enough to sightsee.

The really early flights are way cheaper plus you get to sight see more which is great

Both my fiancé and I do a lot of traveling around Los Angeles, where we live. It’s really not as expensive as you think - we do a lot of camping/backpacking, which is free (or close), and when we do go to a city or town we stay in cheap motels. Totally doable - most people spend more money on Starbucks or whatever.

Yes! My mom used to always take us on "mystery rides," where we'd wake up at like 8am on a Saturday and get in the car and just drive in a direction until we thought of somewhere cool to go for the day. It was an inexpensive way for us to travel, since she was a single mom. We're from New England, so you can cover a lot of ground in a few hours on the road! Some of the most memorable times of my teen years especially.

Since when does marriage take away your freedom? If your spouse isn't someone you can (willingly) go on an adventure with, you're married to the wrong person.

Getting married vs. just being in a committed relationship, changes nothing. Having kids, holy shit that changes the entire ball game. Can't overstate how radically different your life become and how, frankly, narrower your options become. Not saying it's doom and gloom, seeing your kid grow and trying to mold him/her into the best human possible is an amazing experience....but if you're a responsible parent, you're not going to hop on your bike and fuck off to South American for 6 months.

My daughter was born two weeks ago and let me just say, it takes an extra hour to just leave the house because we have to factor in her feeding , sleeping, nappy change, suitable clothing for going outside, then we have to pack her bag and work out what we'll need and how long we'll be gone...

And I can guarantee we'll forget half the things we were supposed to do while we were out because we were so focused on the baby.

She's so worth it though.

To think, for most of human history you just sling em over your shoulder and go gather firewood or pick rice. My friends just had their first, the amount of shit they bring with them makes me want to scream. Takes 2 hours to unload their SUV at the ski chalet. Kids don't need that much shit.

I call this the Baggage Train of the Grand Armee of the Republic stage. Babies do need a ton of shit and it feels like you have to carry a crap ton of stuff with you everywhere. It gets better though. By 4 or so they can travel with normal adult levels of stuff.

The only thing I think they really need is like a day worth of diapers. I don't understand everything else.

Diapers, formula, food, wipes, packnplay or other similar place to sleep, white noise generator, baby monitor and receiver, toys, car seat, clothes (more than you because theirs will be messed up constantly)... i could go on... we had a giant list each time we travelled..

Yeah this couple had all that and more. But really you don't "need" all that stuff. It just stuff that ostensibly helps, even 50 years ago half that stuff wasn't "needed".

Come back and post again after you have kids. Not everything on that list is a need, but most of it is if you’ve ever tried to do without it.

Ah yes no one can ever truly understand. It isn't rocket science, there are 7 billion + humans, clearly it is pretty easy.

Doing it well is clearly not easy. Until you’ve done it your opinion of how easy it is matters not a whit. I thought the same as you until I had to be the father of a small creature totally dependent upon me. This is definitely one of those things that until you’ve tried it you are not qualified to have an opinion on the matter.

I figured you were one of those people, I was right. You can't IMAGINE the sacrifice and the JOY! You'll never know TRUE love until you hold your daughter in your arms. Give me a break. Of course I can fully understand and imagine this stuff, the human mind is literally built for modeling scenarios. I've experienced a lot of unique and "life changing" events/experiences. They usually go about how one would expect them to, and I usually feel how I expected I would.

Child rearing is literally the only thing that every single one of our ancestors has in common. It is the MOST common event present in the human condition.

Edit: Except death I suppose. Also, it is only recently that people have been expected to exclaim at every opportunity that their love for their children knows no bounds and is the purest expression of joy in the world. I mean kids are needy and annoying much of the time, that is why the rich hire nannies and ship them off to boarding schools.

Strawman much? You are reading a whole bunch into my posts... a lot more than is in there. Yes, people the world over and throughout history have had kids. Most of them have had a tiny fraction of the material items we believe we 'need' to take care of them. But all of them would have those things if they could because all (or almost all) parents love their children. Yes, yes, you can THINK that you can understand what it is like to have children, but I am telling you as someone who has done it that you are missing a big part that you can't understand until you do it. I didn't understand it either but it is real. When you hold your newborn child in your arms for the first time it's like someone flips a switch inside of you that has a physical change on your reactions and emotions. You are literally never the same again and your reaction to your child is on a fundamentally different level than any other love in your life. I am here to tell you that until you have done this and felt that 'switch' turn on, you don't know what you are talking about. Other parents will back me up on this.

You'll never know the pure love of parenthood!!!! They've actually done studies about parental happyness. It dips hard once you have kids and doesnt get close again until they are out of the house. http://hurrahforgin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/average_happiness_vs_transcendent_moments1.png

Like I said, this is why rich people have someone else do the work. You just convince yourself that you like it because you have to, and it is socially unacceptable to say otherwise.

How is anything I've said a strawman? Especially when you're repeating exactly what I said verbatim, except you're serious! From all of my time here on Reddit I've come to believe that "strawman" is just a term people use to concede a point without admitting they were wrong.

Look pal, the human mind is literally built for modeling scenarios, ergo ipso facto your love for your daughter is a total overreaction on your part. Why are you being so stubborn about this?

I don't have a daughter... I have two sons... but whatever... this clearly is a case where we will have to agree to disagree that 'modeling' having a kid in your head is even remotely the same as actually having one.

Sorry, shoulda used the /s. I thought the argument against you was so absurd it wouldn't be necessary!

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I use a lot of shit, but I don't claim I NEED it. You can drop me in any town or city or woodland on the planet with my boxers on and I'll figure it out. I recently lost my brand new note 8 phone in Dublin while there for St. Pats. It was disorienting for the first 12 hours but I got used to it quickly and started relying on others and it was actually rather liberating. Airport security sure was confused when I had no phone!

I agree with many of your points, but to claim that a 2 hour unload of dumb baby shit is justified is just wrong. Eventually you hit the point of diminishing returns with baby stuff. You have to.

At this age I'd rather have everything and not need it, especially when it comes to food and nappies.

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Doesn't make it any less true, though.

You're biologically predisposed to believing that.

Dude, that's harsh.

You're biologically predisposed to just about every basic human function. That doesn't have to make life any less valuable or fulfilling.

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Conan, what is greatest in life

Sure. Makes no difference to me.

We are robots. Gene machines. This is some Westworld shit.

So true, but also it depends on what your values are and what you consider an adventure. I’m not the type to just drop everything as fuck off to South America for 6 months anyways, however I get so excited to just thinking about becoming a parent and raising kids with my future husband...

Yeah, that just sounds terrifying. I think I do want kids, but that lack of freedom is seriously scary.

I just wish people were more honest about it. You generally get the sugar-coated version. In my experience, it's been one of the hardest things I've done in my life. And frankly, 70% of the burden still falls on the wife. I have no idea how people have more than 2. It's also the most rewarding. The highs are higher, the lows are lower.

This is why I think the above advice is so good, get all the fun/wild shit out of your system, because real responsibility is like nothing you've ever really experienced.

I would fully expect it to be hard and not that rewarding most of the time. and the scariest thing of all is once they're born, it's not like you can give them back if it turns out you don't really like kids after all.

Fwiw, you're going to be genetically predisposed to liking your kid. Doesn't make any of the other stuff any less true, but the moment you'll see him/her you'll be absolutely in love.

Uhhh Casey Anthony?

Don't have them oif you value freedom. SO and I recently decided we like freedom, quiet, privacy, and money much more than we like the idea of a kid. So we're not going to have one.

I'm on the fence. I have always wanted kids and am pretty good with them, but I am on the autistic spectrum and need a lot of downtime/quiet/peace, so I'd worry that it would just be too much for me. :/

Honestly, it probably would. I need a LOT of chill, to the point where I hate having neighbours, so I know having constant bustle in my quiet personal place would be too upsetting.

That’s one of the big reasons why people get post-partum depression. In one moment you’re waiting for the baby and it’s still just you and your partner, but in the next moment the crushing reality of being 100% responsible for another human being for 18+ years hits you hard. My son turned a year old this past March and although I would never regret having him, there’s so much that my fiancé and I should have done before we had kids. We’re both 23 and although I have a comfortable life and a house and a good job, we could have travelled and been free-spirited all we wanted and sometimes that just hangs on to you.

I never sugarcoat things to new parents. I always call it your first death and second birth, because for most people it’s practically like hitting a hard reset on your life. All your hobbies you liked doing? Not enough time until he/she gets a little older or you incorporate it into the kids routine. Sleep? Lol hope you like running off of 3 hours of sleep for the first 6 months, improving to 5 when they get a little more mobile. Gotta go run errands? Have to pack a bag, make sure baby is dressed and ready, make sure you have everything you need for emergencies and then finding the time to get ready. Your options narrow and it takes a long time to get that freedom back. However, it truly is one of the most rewarding experiences you could ever imagine.

On the one hand, I'm happy that we waited till our mid-30s. Definitely got a lot of experiences out of our system and were as ready as you can be for the next phase. On the other...my hobbies are pretty physically demanding, and I worry that I won't be able to share them to the same degree when the kid is ready. Like if I had my kid in early 20s, we'd be playing pick-up hoops right now and I'd still be able to kick his ass :) When I'm playing hoops with my guy in my late 40s, don't think it's going to quite work the same way. So I think both approaches have their pros and cons.

You have as much freedom as you allow yourself to have. I traveled more after having my kid than before. We take her with us most of the time or leave her with grandparents.

Having more than 1 is where it gets a little more difficult.

This assumes you have parents who will watch them for you. Some people are lucky like that, others do not have that option. As someone who does not have that option, I really resent people who do and take it for granted (aka my cousin). We haven’t traveled much in years because we have no choice but to take the kids with us.

Having kids is environmentally and financially irresponsible

yaaaay reality is great

Edgy. Far be it for me to tell someone what to do. But if breeders quit breeding...well Children of Men is a good guidebook to the consequences.

No one's going to convince the entire population of earth to quit having kids.

In the context of everyone else having too many kids, it's a good thing to not have any.

US birthrate is barely at replacement level, genius. Europe's is below replacement level. The issue is not people having too many kids, the issue is what how we treat the planet once we arrive there.

Source: demographic major in college.

Hey hey hey, don't call me a genius. Maybe I'm not worth your time but I really just want to have a conversation.

The way we treat the planet is the issue, but treating the planet better and there being less people are both solutions. As far as I know we're slooowly moving in the right direction in terms of treating the environment better, but the global population is increasing a whole bunch at the same time.

Even for Americans, we consume a fuckload (I also American). Maybe we're barely maintaining our population, but if there were less Americans then our impact on the environment would go down. If we all treated the environment better our impact would go down. But they're both solutions, ya know? :S

If "barely at replacement level" means "slightly above replacement level," that's still bad. We're already overpopulated. The planet is certainly not going to get treated any better if the population keeps growing. Also, a dystopian thriller shouldn't be a go-to resource for anything.

US birthrate is barely at replacement level, genius.

It's probably worth a few generations to "take one for the team" economically in order to fix the problems us first world people are doing to the environment.

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I'd love to know why anything about what I said is fucking stupid.

I'd love to see some backing for your opinion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature09678

https://www.co2.earth/annual-co2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_footprint

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_overpopulation#Carrying_capacity

Like I've told the others who clearly haven't done so, read your sources.

Actually I am fairly certain you just googled stuff without actually looking at the page, lol.

did you read my sources?

Or are you just saying they're fake and gay without knowing anything

seriously there's some burden of being legit on your part too

did you read my sources?

Did you?

Or are you just saying they're fake and gay

Are you 5?

seriously there's some burden of being legit on your part too

burden on being "legit" is that every source provided - well the ones actually relevant - says to have smaller families.

I skimmed them to make sure they appeared legit. I'm not an expert in the field.

On the flipside, if you actually knew anything then I suspect you wouldn't be spewing "you're fucking stupid, are you 5? You don't know anything, lol", you would back up your viewpoint with sources.

"Have smaller families" is "don't have kids" lite. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, we are basically in agreement and I don't see what the animosity is about.

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Do you have any actual backing for why they are horrible or just an ill-informed opinion?

It's well established https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/children-carbon-footprint-climate-change-damage-having-kids-research-a7837961.html

I also question bringing a human into existence right at the cusp of what looks to be an environmentally disastrous period of history.

I assume you haven't actually read that since it's not about having children, it's about having fewer children/smaller families.

Don't play dumb, you can extrapolate from that. Feel free to Google it yourself if you feel like honestly learning.

Well the only other option is to have no children so tell me who is playing dumb.

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It's clearly obvious you haven't read your sources.

[deleted]

just trolling

admits to not reading his sources

Are you going to provide anything to correct the "ill-informed" among us? Sources on kids having no negative environmental/financial impacts?

I'm probably not going to do that either way. Think I'm ready for kids?

Yup. My nephew just turned 2 yeasterday and my brother and SIL are always telling me "if you come visit us, we'll pay your travel costs because frankly it's wayyyy cheaper and easier for us to pay for you to come to us than it is for us to travel with the baby."

And they have another on the way! I always tell them don't pay (babies are expensive, put whatever you'd give me in a college fund) but the offer alone makes me want to visit them more than most other family.

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Dude the post you're responding to literally mentioned having kids. Most people once they move out of their twenties get married and have kids, you're making a distinction without a difference. You want to go childless, cool bravo, but that's clearly not who that post was aimed at.

I mean... the post does say ‘or’ have kids... implying both marriage and having kids add similar restrictions...

When you're married, you can't usually do as many things alone. A lot of spouses won't want you to leave for a month to travel.

Is there some reason why you wouldn't bring your spouse with you?

Yes??

Find a cool 4 month job in Latin America when your young and single, all you have to consider is your own needs.

If you have a partner who you are insisting on being with you, you have twice as many potential reasons not to go. Will she be able to find work? Is she leaving any opportunities behind? Etc.

I guess I can't really see the point in those kinds of experiences if I can't share them with my favorite people. Seems kind of on the same level as drinking alone.

I find freedom and happiness in traveling alone. Just a personal preference. I like to be selfish when I travel and not think about what another person wants to do.

I just got married at 25 and I don't want to do anything alone without her there. Any trip or activity, even the grocery store, is better when she is there. The only exception I can think of is fishing.

Me too! But now all trips cost almost double, since it's double airfare, double food. The only thing we save on by being a couple of a hotel room.

That's great! I'm glad you have a person like that in your life. Personally, I need a lot of time alone, and many of my hobbies are solo activities. Doing things with others is obviously great and all, but I find that I can appreciate certain things better when I am alone.

Life is 100% better with the company of the right person but when you’re young, having no one dependent on you and no real responsibilities can allow you to make seriously radical (and sometimes unwise) life changes that, if they turn out badly, you still have a lot of time to recover from. It becomes harder to throw everything away and do fun but potentially damaging things (I mean like giving up jobs or your current life to move somewhere else, not like doing drugs) when you have a life partner.

Bring them with?!

Mine is fine with it for business, but I’d bring her anyway somehow because that’s way too long to be apart

Sounds like a lack of trust and compatibility.

“I could potentially take off work and go to Japan and that’s impossible for both of us to do due to your own obligations but you’d also like me to be around and i like being around you as well.”

What a lack of trust and comparability.

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do you have kids?

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and I replied to your comment asking if you have any children. It definitely impacts a marriage from experience and I was wondering how you manage it if you did have a child. Instead I get downvoted and you go on the defensive. Good ol' reddit.

Why are you downvoting me? A fact of life is that a lot of people looking to settle down don't want their SO to be constantly leaving them alone for extended periods.

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Could also mean "embrace what's meaningful". Ideally, any kind of settling down with someone is because you both find it meaningful to quit the dating game and start a family.

There's plenty of complacency in bachelor life too. If I've learned anything, it's that trying to find the right woman to settle down with and being the man she'd want to settle down with is the opposite of complacency. It's required to me to make changes and assess my life in ways the casual sex of my 20s never required.

Once upon a time husbands would head West for months or years at a time. There were no phones... Travel was long and times were hard...

We live in a time where absolutely anywhere you are in the world, your phone can ring and your partner will be staring at you via video while cooking fettuccine alfredo.

If you can't leave eachother for a bit to see the world or whatever it is you want to do.... You probably have some dependency issues.

I agree. It's a big reason why I am not into the idea of marriage. I like my freedom and want the ability to live life on whims.

I wouldn’t say it’s a significant difference, but being married definitely limits your freedom. You have two different incomes and vacation schedules to worry about. A single person can up and go when they want - they know how much they have to spend and when they have time.

It’s far from impossible, it’s just a bit more to think about than when you’re by yourself.

I get the point youre making, and for sure you shouldnt marry someone without being very compatible, but lets be real, youre never going to agree 100% on every decision. When youre single, every choice is your own

Even if you see eye to eye, there’s no guarantee that although you both agree a particular opportunity is good for one person, that it won’t be bad for the other person if they tag along.

You're kidding. You go from dealing with two independent people to a unit. Activities need to be planned that will theoretically make both parties content. As an older single guy, I get invited to a lot of BBQ's, bonfires, and other such actives. I think of them as 'gender neutral' activities. No one can really get into any trouble, no one gets that drunk, there is a bathroom within walking range, children are welcome, etc etc etc. I guess that's all life might be for some people.

The kind of stuff me and a lot of other guys used to do when we were younger was different. We drank excessively, played relatively dangerous games, came and went when we wanted, and didn't mind just playing video games all day long. Relationships involve a lot of give and take. Just because you're happy with the arrangement currently doesn't mean things didn't change.

My spouse and I have a ton in common but we also have a lot of differences. It’s not always that simple.

It really does take away freedom though. I'm in Canada, but had an amazing job opportunity pop up in Europe. There was no way that my husband was able to leave his family and work though, so I couldn't even consider it. There's a whole other person to consider when you make decisions when you're married.

Bingo. Travelling and exploring new things with someone you love is much better than doing them all alone.

I have a spouse that I share a ton of hobbies with. We travel the world together. She's literally my best, most reliable friend.

If I want to plan a vacation? I need to make sure she's free as well. I need to make sure that she has enough saved up. That she doesn't have any family commitments, etc etc.

Having a spouse makes it significantly harder to just up-and-go.

Since when does marriage take away your freedom?

It doesn't necessarily, but it does inherently make things more challenging to plan because now you have to be considerate of their needs and wants as well.

When I was applying for residency, I could choose any city in the country because I had no spouse or kids. A lot of my classmates could only apply to a handful because their spouses still needed to keep their jobs, wanted to be near family, etc.

When I was single I could just decide on a whim that I wanted to get in my car and go camping in hills of West Virginia for the weekend and 30 minutes later I’d be on my way. No checking in with anyone. No coordinating schedules or planning shit out well in advance. Just get and idea and go. Try doing that once you’re married and I don’t care how cool your wife is, it’s probably not going to fly.

Me and my husband have definitely packed up and left with extremely short notice. Biggest one was 9 day road trip to the Grand Canyon, but recently we also flew to Vancouver with 8 hours notice (he bought tickets at 3 am while I was at work moving some shifts around). Left around 11 am. Dropped our dogs off at our parents houses and went on our way. Booked places to stay on our lay over. And for the Grand Canyon trip it was mostly first come first serve camp sites.

My schedule is fairly flexible, and I have 8 nights off every 3 weeks, so it’s pretty conducive to leaving. I also get like 21 days of vacation time.

"Happy wife, happy life"

Ew.

Marriage requires planning and coordination... you can still have fun but you need to plan it with your partner most days.

I have one day a year where i plan nothing - do whatever I feel like in the moment with no todo list. I still look forward to that day as it draws close.

It's much simpler if you are single, imo. You won't share every interest with your spouse. Finding things that overlap both your general interests, your current mood, and availability can be difficult. For example, my job doesn't require me to work in any one physical location. I'd travel the world but I'd prefer not to leave my wife behind who has a normal 9-5 job.

Sharing your life with another person generally involves being less free by default.

Uh.. it's not marriage but kids

Divorce rates are like 50% - half of people marry the wrong person. It's a real risk.

Lol try having kids bruh.

Right, but even if your spouse loves to travel - dealing with the priorities of two people doubles the amount of obstacles. Things like their family & their health - what if one if their parents gets sick, you should be there to support. Or if they get a great opportunity for their career they don't want to pass up.

Just the reality that when you're two people you have strength in numbers (peer support, double the income potential, etc) but also double the challenges for whatever you want to do.

You might be willing to sleep on trains & hitch hike around the country, but they may now be dealing with illness, longing for more education, a baby, etc.

Not all obstacles are within anyone's control & you have twice the exposure in a couple. Moral is, if you have the opportunity - jump on it ASAP.

I’ve just got to say, both me and my husband would be way less traveled if we weren’t together.

I’m not a travel alone type person. I’d never have the money or desire to travel around without someone else, and I can’t imagine extended trips with most of my friends- and most of us have different ideas of adventure.

My husband actually had a trip to Japan planned with a friend of his dad, but it was all planned by the friend. Would have been fun and all but honestly my husband is a terrible planner so in general he wouldn’t be venturing out on trips to random places.

Together, I plan (or wing it depending on the trip) and he provides the stability and encouragement. We’ve been tons of places and have several trips in the works. And honestly I have very little desire to go any where without him. He makes everything more fun and I love the memories we’ve made in 6 years of travel.

Since you now have to coordinate those adventures with a second person. Guess what, that's twice as complicated as just being able to do it yourself. Adding a kid multiplies that by something like 3 or 4, for some reason.

yea good luck going on adventures with baby in the house

Adult married human =/= baby

he didn't mention anything about baby in the house, you can be married and not have kids.

I know many people, myself included, who still have adventures and have children. Kids are small and generally portable.

There are just certain things or activities that everyone loves doing alone even when married.

Even assuming you both want to do exactly the same things at exactly the same time, you now have 2 schedules to contend with instead of just 1.

If you both have jobs, then that's going to get in the way of going on vacations. If only 1 of you has a job, then your money is now split between 2 people.

Since when does marriage take away your freedom?

Found the unmarried guy

Travel? With what money? I worked full time + just to afford basics.

Volunteer? With what time? I'm working for money every hour I can.

I currently have the most "freedom" to do as I please in my life (in my 30s), and I am the sole money earner for my wife and kid. The freedom is not having to worry about every bill or food or medical costs.

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Also

I am the sole money earner

The beginning of his comments was past tense talking about his 20s, I think, while the wife and kid comment was present tense.

Correct. I didn't have a kid until my 30s. My wife and I both worked during our 20s.

I was in no way poor, and kept my debt limited to car payments and student loans. That said, taking time off to travel meant both new expenses (travel) AND lost wages, which is a double whammy.

Though I'm now the sole earner, I make like 3x what I was making 7 years ago, so I'm more stable than ever before.

Yeah, don't think the OP considered outside factors. Not every one has the time + money in their 20s. About to graduate, and will have to start paying back my student loans.

Have you considered not being broke?

Step 1. Be Rich.

Step 2. Don't be poor.

I'm guessing you got married in your mid to late 20's and then had a kid? That is what OP meant. You tied yourself down early instead of taking time to travel, have fun, explore the world, figure yourselves out together, save up more money while you're both working, etc. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it's just that that was the point OP was trying to make. Hope this didn't come off as rude.

Not everyone has your situation though, some of us appreciate advice like this because we can live it. It’s weird how Reddit assumes every 20-something is a starving jobless victim of baby boomers.

Let's also remember that social security is going to be virtually gone by the time millennials retire, so for our own benefit we have to start saving for our retirement as soon as we can if we want to retire by 65. Meaning full-time work as soon as possible.

You completely misunderstood what he said. He’s saying to travel and have fun before you have responsibilities like taking care of three people on one income.

Why are you complaining? As you said, you are in your 30s. Gone and missed your 20s by the sounds of it.

Great part about 2018 is that you can find lots of stories about people in your current situation who have found a path to where you want to be. Find those stories & learn all you can.

Any avid traveller will tell you this secret, you never have $ to travel. It just has to be a priority and then you make it happen.

Not that I know your situation, but why doesn't your wife get a job? The kid going to daycare would let you have more money, even accounting for the cost of daycare.

I can't imagine being the sole earner for a family of 3. Sometimes it can get hairy to be the sole earner for one.

I'm not OP, but in certain situations it can be cheaper to have one parent stay at home. Childcare is expensive, especially for nice places. There is also the potential costs of commuting for the other parent: car, car payments, gas, maintenance, insurance, etc. When factoring in all costs, it can be a better move to have only one parent working.

Daycare is one of the worst things you can do for a kid. If you can afford to have a stay at home parent it's almost always the better option.

Yet the dude is talking about how it's a struggle at the moment to basically live because they have a stay at home parent...

He didn't really say it's a struggle just that he didn't have money for luxuries.

You're right. I'm not trying to have too many ties in my youth.

Never stop looking forward. I'm 26 and have friends from that high school,that seemingly are already winding down the clock on life. Crappy job, no desire to improve, drinking habit. Don't be that person. If that means that you move on from friends from your youth then so be it. It sucks but it sucks a lot less than being weighed down by relationships that go nowhere.

Travel is essential to recognise that the people you grew up with may have developed lifestyles that you don’t want anything to do with. So many of the friends I had in high school bought a house in our town and just work a blah job and drink and watch sports. I started travelling when I was 18 and realised these people had built a little comfort bubble largely devoid of stimulation. Never looked back and no regrets.

I mean... if they're happy, they're happy, and there's no need to begrudge them for their lifestyle. As somebody who spent their 20s living relatively "free" as in traveling a lot and trying new things without being tied down to anyone or anything, I find myself at 29 on the outside looking in with envy at a lot of my friends and former classmates with stable 'blah' jobs and comfort bubbles like you said. You could do a hell of a lot worse than to "work a blah job and drink and watch sports" for the rest of your life. Different strokes for different folks.

For sure. I’m saying that that lifestyle doesn’t work for me personally but indeed if people are happy I’m not going to tell them they’re wrong. I just think it’s worth seeing what’s out there. You can always go see the world and then say nah, I liked what I was doing before. But some did come straight out and say “I wish I had done what you did; now I can’t”

I’ll admit I’ve had hints of that envy before. While it’s cool having friends all over the world, it means I rarely get to see them and never in the same place. Plus seeing a lot of places makes me unsatisfied with everywhere since there’s always something that another place did better. “Internet is better in Sweden. Public transit is better in Singapore. Restaurant culture is better in Japan”

We are the same.....even the age and the specific things you said, lol

I’m 20. I feel like I shouldn’t relate to this, but I do.

What part do you relate to?

Needing to move on from high school friends. I mean, I know it sounds weird, but a lot of my high school friends are already slowing down. How?? They’re 20 just like me. They like to sit around all day and do the same old shit, and that’s not me, but it’s hard to move on, especially when you don’t have many other options like me.

Why do you say you have few options? Whereabouts do you live? What do you like?

I’m just busy constantly, going to school and working full time. The few times I do get to hang out with friends or go find girls or something, they don’t want to do anything. Just sit around and chill. I’m in a program at a junior college that has a high percentage of people a few years older than me (fire fighting), so it’s hard to meet people at school, and I work in a garage, by myself most of the time.

Thankfully I just registered to take some classes at another school, so hopefully I can meet some people. Also I’m looking into getting a job as a waiter, so I’ll get to interact with more people. But still, it all feels very limited to me.

Man, I think that's fucking dope that you're training to be a fire fighter. What are you learning in the courses?

Whereabouts do you live? There's gotta be some things around to do or places to go where you can meet new people.

Thanks dude, it really is awesome so far, and I haven’t even done anything outside of the classroom yet. The classes I’m in this semester, are Codes/Regulations (meh), and Hazardous Materials and Enforcement (dope af).

I’m from the Silicon Valley, so there are lots of cool things and people out here, but like I said, it’s heavily related to lack of time. Also, a lot of the young culture around here is based around going out to bars and the like, but obviously I’m not of age, and ironically, I’m not much of a drinker anymore, since high school ended.

Take time, whether it's one day a week, two hours a day or just one day a month and do something new. That might mean going to a museum or a show or just eating at that new fried chicken place a town over. Hell, taking a different route on the drive home still brings me joy.

Find ways to break the routine, whether big or seemingly miniscule. Those changes really do help make life fulfilling.

Take time, whether it's one day a week, two hours a day or just one day a month and do something new. That might mean going to a museum or a show or just eating at that new fried chicken place a town over. Hell, taking a different route on the drive home still brings me joy.

Find ways to break the routine, whether big or seemingly miniscule. Those changes really do help make life fulfilling.

You’re definitely right, and thanks for the good advice. It really is hard to remind ourselves that routines can be harmful and difficult to climb out of. I’ll definitely start to do the small things I’ve been wanting to, like teach myself the harmonica.

Also, thanks for taking such an interest in a strangers problems. This is the exact type of “small good deed” that goes a long way. It’s funny; because of you, I just decided to do something pretty simple I’ve really been considering lately, which could wind up becoming very impactful in my life. Thanks for that.

Is there anything you want to or need to talk about? Maybe get a second opinion on? I’m willing to help, and return the favor.

Just live a good fulfilling life. That's all. Be well.

You too dude.

Fuckin' a. What a great positive side convo you guys just had. Didn't mean to creep but you 2 are good peeps.

Thanks dude. You’re not creeping at all.

You've got good vibes.

Be good and do good to the good of this world.

At least have a variety. Some bow ties, maybe even a string tie or two ....

Funny..funny

Man, I only wish. I spent my 20s making peanuts, struggling to put a dent in my student loans and with barely enough money to pay bills much less travel. Its only now in my 30s that I feel free, full of energy and have a bit of disposable income...right at the point I decided settling down and having kids was a great idea. FML

Travel

No money

Volunteer

No free time

Figure out who you are and what kind of person you want to be as you finish growing up

Maybe by the time I'm 60...

Don't saddle yourself down with a ton of responsibilities now because you will never be this young, this free, this full of energy, and have this many opportunities to grab life by the balls and enjoy yourself again.

Well I guess my life is pretty much over already then at 25.

I wanna be one of these mythical 20-somethings that have lots of free time and the ability to choose which responsibilities I want to take on.

Even without kids, there's that mountain of student debt, the need for health insurance, and the fact I have to start saving for retirement as soon as possible because Social Security will probably be gone when I'm 65.

So it's full-time work or defaulting, sickness, and working till I'm dead.

It's not about having a bunch of free time. It's about prioritizing your time in order to live your life to the fullest.

You can go to work, come home and lay on the couch for an hour browsing reddit, turn on the tv to something random (or just watch The Office for the 1000th time), dread work tomorrow so you lay in bed browsing reddit and watching tv til it's time to go to bed. Do that all over again the next day.

If you prioritize your time, you realize that if you cut all that bullshit out, you have a lot more time than you think. Join a local sports league to play just an hour a day, put a little effort into a hobby you enjoy, if you're a homebody just watch something new and interesting on tv. Even spending an hour or so at the bar with a co-worker or friend after work can really lift your spirits after a long day.

Too many people spend all of their free time doing nothing. When people talk about doing all this extra stuff, they aren't saying they only work 20 hours a week and have all this free time. They are prioritizing and scheduling out their time so they can make the most of it.

Of course this advice isn't universal. Some people work 3 jobs and have kids to worry about. Those people usually try to get their enjoyment from the little time they spend with their kids.

The point is, life is only what you make of it. It sounds paradoxical, but if you want to enjoy life, you have to put in some extra effort.

That sounds like a LOT of work when they could just bitch on the internet.

Reddit is free yo. A lot of people work so hard that watching tv or something is the only thing they have energy to do at the end of the day. I worked construction for a while (non union) and my god did I have no social life. I didn't even want to have sex with my girlfriend (don't worry, I'm ugly enough so it's not too much of a blow to her). Doing things that would otherwise be fun just felt like chores because of how tired I was.

I'm lucky enough to have a good family structure and parents helping me through college now, so I didn't have to do that for very long. But my god, it's a situation that's hard to do much about. Let's let them bitch, they deserve at least that.

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where do you live in Canada?

Well bully for you

Lol people always say this like we chose to be Americans trust me id love to live in another country but when you have zero money in America is not likely you are leaving

I guess I am a mythical 20-something.

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Lucky them.

[deleted]

That's painfully naive

Doesn't help that less than half of the affected population (18-29 yr olds) actually go vote. Can't decry the system if you don't partake in it.

The health care system in this country is never going to change in any real way. It doesn't matter who you vote for. And that's for the simple reason that the current system employs too many people to ever be done away with. No amount of voting can counter those entrenched economic interests

which is why we have to work to first get money out of politics. i know it's a massively uphill battle but simply saying "it won't work" isn't helping the situation at all

This isn't even just a matter of money in politics. Health insurance is one of the single largest employers in the country, no congressman is going to vote for laws that will result in their district losing jobs. And it's not just insurance companies. Every level of the medical industry from insurance providers to pharmaceutical giants benefits from the status quo and would cut jobs to make up for lost revenue.

I want to agree with you but the reality is this system is a precarious house of cards that NO ONE in power will ever risk knocking over.

People have been fighting over universal health care in this country literally since FDR, and it's only ever gotten worse. Too many people benefit from the status quo for it to ever change.

FDR wanted to create an NHS like system. The ADA did everything in their power to block it. Guess what? The ADA still exists and still benefits from blocking it. But now you've also got multi-billion dollar insurance agencies and multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical companies on top of that who also stand to lose from universal health. It will never happen here.

And believe me I desperately want it to change. I want to start my own business but can't because I can't afford to lose my insurance. My older brother can't marry his long time girlfriend because their combined income would mean he loses medicaid and he has a chronic health condition. I hate this system, I haven't had a routine check up in years.

But it's never going to change

student debt, need for health insurance

Come to Canada, tuition is extremely reasonable without cutting quality (U of T is still one of the best universities in the world, Mac, Queens and Waterloo are also awesome) and you get free healthcare.

The weird thing is, there's a highly upvoted comment a couple spots up telling people in their 20s to start planning for retirement right away, putting their extra money into a retirement fund while working. Then a couple spots down it's all "don't tie yourself down, travel, volunteer!" I realize that some can balance both, but for individuals who don't have a safety net and have to work for a living, spending thousands of dollars and taking time off work to fly overseas just isn't an option.

That's why everyone should go camping! Low cost, don't have to take a bunch of time off, and most people live within a couple hours of a state or national park with low-cost camping. A great way to "find yourself" and grow as a person for those who can't afford life-altering trips to exotic places.

Travel doesn't have to be expensive. You can work abroad at hostels very easily and sustain yourself basically indefinitely. Teaching English is also a great way to get by and get experience.

But then you're putting your career on hold, and potentially not making a dent in your student loans

Absolutely. That's what having fun and figuring out things is about.

If you know what career you want and if your life goal is paying back student loans, do that instead.

No one's life goal is paying off student loans but no one wants to be financially insecure well into their 50s either.

If that's the first thing you think about, I would absolutely define it as your goal.
Of course, if that sounds better to you, we can also call it "financial security".

You know paying back your student loans isn't a choice right? You have to or the government with just garnish your wages

What wages?

The ones you're inevitably going to have to make to avoid homelessness. Which will be even harder now because no one will be willing to rent an apartment to you because you destroyed your credit score by not paying your student loans

They're not taking money you need to survive. They only take excess money.

So you can get by fine.

Wonderful financial advice

That wasn't meant to be financial advice, but life advice.

Financial advice would be "don't get into so much debt that it dictates your life".

I hear this over and over, and the thing is, yes, you can find low-cost hostels. The flights to these hostels are still incredibly expensive to someone who is low-budget. At least from the US. You can backpack around Europe staying in hostels, but you have to get to Europe first. And although a couple thousand dollars may not be a lot to some, it's a heck of a lot of money to low-income populations. That, and the money lost from time taken off work makes overseas travel incredibly expensive for those that don't have money and friends/family willing to help out.

Low cost carriers now do transatlantic flights. You can get return flights to Europe for like 350 now.

I wouldn't even suggest Europe though it's still expensive as fuck. Better going to SE Asia or S.America.

If you're flexible with time and not fussy about peak season vs. Off season travel times you can find great deals on flights. ~450 bucks round trip to Mexico, staying in budget hostels and avoiding tourist traps means you can easily spend 2 to 3 weeks there for less than $1000.

That may be a lot of money to some but I still don't have a new gen console, I don't go clubbing and rarely go to bars and I work out outside instead of getting a gym membership. That's how i afford it.

(Keep in mind I'm canadian with free healthcare and had subsidized tuition)

450 bucks is 1 months health insurance premiums + prescription meds for me.

Great. Then obviously you can't afford it. At one point you should be able to unless you're working retail, otherwise I don't know what your doing with your money so I can't comment on that.

A lot of people I see complaining that they can't afford travel spend their money stupidly.

At one point you should be able to unless you're working retail,

You saying that from your extensive experience with the cost of living in America?

So what you're saying is that you are making enough to just break even? If so then yeah you won't be able to save enough to travel, have kids, buy a new car, buy a house etc. and this particular thread is not addressed to you.

Nearly everyone in my generation is barely making enough to break even

That's just false. Again, I don't know what job you have or how you spend your money but this thread is clearly aimed at people who have the opportunity to travel and put it off instead.

If you're living paycheck to paycheck then obviously this advice didn't apply to you.

Pretty sure that was their point.

But camping is fucking boring

Then you're camping wrong

Or with the wrong people.

Or with the wrong drugs.

this man knows

Maybe by the time I'm 60.

Let me tell you a little bit about my Grandpa's oldest brother. Joe had a good job making lots of bank but he and his wife saved every penny. They had an OK house and newer cars but never took trips or had much fun. Even when they were younger or when their kids were little. Everything was we'll do that when we retire. You know what happened? Joe had a stroke not long after he retired. All that money they saved bought him a kickass room in a nursing home and nurses to feed him.

Saving for retirement is very important but don't bank on waiting until you retire to start living.

Wow, they could afford a house? That's a luxury by today's standards

Yeah wtf that guy is an idiot

Seriously this. OP is clearly not aware of how hard it is to be in your early to mid twenties at this time in our history. Nothing is cheap, debt is pretty much a given, and unless your parents give you money it’s so damn hard to get by and still be able to travel/volunteer/live a fun life without being broke.

Travel isn’t as expensive as you think if you look in the right places.

Maybe not, but taking off work is.

I get no PTO at my job. Travel could be free and it wouldn't matter because I've still gotta afford rent

That sounds shitty, I’m sorry to hear it.

Welcome to the real world

I mean there are plenty of jobs out there that give you paid time off

The average amount of paid time off for Americans is only 7 days

7 is more than 0 bro.

That's the average for people who have PTO. A little over 20% of Americans have none. And PTO is often times also your sick leave as well as vacation time

Also wanna tell me where you can travel abroad in less than a week?

Stop being obtuse. You have no idea what it's like and you're speaking from a position of privilege

You know nothing about me or what I’ve sacrificed to get where I am.

You can travel anywhere easily in less than a week.

I know how averages work. As many people have more than 7 as have less, don’t know why you’re only focusing on that side of it. You think you’re teaching me things that I am already well aware of and have address and analyzed when forming my opinion.

I wish you the best. Hopefully you find a better job with more paid time off soon. They’re out there.

You know nothing about me or what I’ve sacrificed to get where I am.

Your ignorant attitude tells me everything I need to know.

Good luck going through life thinking that no one else can teach you anything.

[deleted]

You don't reddit at work? Wow.

Not everyone works 9 to 5 Monday through Friday

or taking care of other responsibilities.

go away.

Still applies... people have different work schedules. He could be in the restroom. He could be on his break. He could be taking a study break. He could have just woken up. He could live in Australia.. the list goes on.

Peace corps my friend. Travel and volunteering

Wow, this is a super defeatist attitude. Your attitude is the single most important predictor of fulfilment, no wonder you feel like your life is "pretty much over already".

You need to decide for yourself what attitude you will carry through life, and witness how that impacts the outcomes of your actions.

Your attitude is the single most important predictor of fulfilment

Look, I agree that having a positive attitude is important, but it's really easy to make that statement if your life is already somewhat comfortable. Some people are in really, really shitty situations.

I don't disagree with you; a year ago I lived in my $2500 car, was living off $1.08 (after tax) egg burritos from McDonald's, had a throat infection for over 100 days that I could't afford antibiotics for, and was unmedicated bipolar. Now, I take that car on vacations, I never go to McD's, and am in great mental and physical health. What changed? My outlook, my attitude, my willingness to work hard in a world that will never be fair or easy to navigate for almos

What has that taught me? No situation is bad enough to justify a bad attitude. Keep a bad attitude and your negative outlook will come true. Cultivate a positive attitude, laugh at helpless nature of the tough parts of life, and at least there's a probability of things getting better. After holding that belief to be true for long enough, eventually things did for me. I could have crawled out of the grave I had dug myself long before I did had I had the maturity to buck up earlier on.

Be careful with the thought seeds you plant in the garden of your mind, for seeds grow after they're cared for.

EDIT: I'll also add that in our society, most people conflate "comfortable" with having lots of money. I don't. I live within my means and don't waste capital on the trivialities of a consumerist society. The things I own are the things I need, and if they break, I repair them. If you need to have a new car (under 10 years old), a $750 smartphone, $150 shoes, and be eating out at restaurants regularly rather than growing and preparing your own food, all while complaining that life is too shitty and expensive to thrive, I'll again say: your suffering is self-inflicted.

What changed in a year? Seems like an unlikely turnaround in such a short amount of time.

Do I need to repeat myself? My attitude. My outlook. My perspective on my limited conscious awareness time I have in this thing we call life.

I don't buy it, sorry. That is complete and utter bullshit. Someone helped you. Not everyone has someone who can help them.

And considering you were homeless just a short time ago, maybe you should be careful with your drug use so as not to risk living back in that car.

Suddenly got healthcare and has the space to grow his own food. That insurance card and land just physically grew out of his outlook.

I feel sorry for you.

Shit man, I feel for you. I won't say I feel sorry for you, though, because I think that's rude.

But please, keep preaching to everyone else, because clearly you've got it all figured out.

Surely you have something better to do than preach at me?

Lol seriously. "Just change your attitude." Like a positive outlook on life will magically put thousands of dollars in my bank account so I can travel.

If you're sad, just don't be sad. Simple fix my friend.

Teach me master!

You can get hostel bunks for less than $3 a night in South East Asia. If you can get a flight out there (can pretty easily find that for under $400, and if you know you're going for a long time, I'm pretty sure you can find something to sell) and you can sustain yourself out there pretty easily finding work at a hostel or teaching english.

Yeah I could definitely afford that. Could I (or any number of people in this postition) afford to take a week or more off work. After all, just because I'm in another country doesn't mean I don't have to pay for rent, insurance, car payments, loans, etc and that week off of work means no money. Combined with the costs of the travel and that's a huge bite out of the wallet.

Edit: I don't want to seem like I'm criticising you. I completely agree that traveling is amazing and truly broadens ones horizons. I just get a little peeved when people think it's easy for everyone to do.

Oh I was talking about a lifestyle change rather than a holiday. Going for 6 months+ I know it's not easy for people to do, but so many people seem wildly unhappy with living the city life back at home, crushed under work and bills. Contrary to what the world might tell you, that's not the only way to live life!

How am I supposed to explain a fucking 6 month gap in job history when I come back unemployed and trying to pay rent?

Tell ppl you volunteered for 6 months. Business and personal development.

Good luck with that in this job market

Lol that doesn’t fly.

Sooo go be a bum and then wonder why you cannot get a job?

That's still a sizeable chunk of money for some people to go to a completely foreign country to live among people who know little to no English. Plus what do you do with all your stuff back home? Not everyone has family or friends that can hold their stuff for months or only have completely disposable stuff. Lastly, you have to wonder how you'll further whatever career you're aiming for. Traveling vs working or living somewhere for awhile are two different things.

Why would you comment if you don't want people to reply to you?

Not all comment replies are created equal.

What exactly do you do with your time

I work two jobs. Other than that, I mostly prepare and eat food, sleep, attend to personal hygeine, and run errands.

This is kind of a silly question. The people in their 20s right now live their lives with pretty fucking bleak future prospects (or lack thereof) and the answer will almost always be "work. all the time."

Two to three minimum wage part time jobs with no benefits and keeping schedules straight and the constant transportation in between is exhausting.

I don't think its silly. I am in my 20's and don't have any of those problems. None of my friends have any of those problems. Obviously that is a small sample size and biased based on who i am likely to associate with but I am genuinely curious as to how someone only works has no free time to spend their money and still has no money. I am willing to bet there is some mismanagement of personal finances going on there but I could be wrong of course.

Travel doesn't have to be expensive. You can work abroad at hostels very easily and sustain yourself basically indefinitely. Teaching English is also a great way to get by and get experience.

What a horrible attitude.

Why would ANYONE in their 20’s volunteer? They have to work to pay the bills. Save that volunteering shit for your 60’s.

Top comment says start saving. This guy's comment says work for free and spend money on trips

I think this thread is a good demonstration of how full of shit old people are.

The internet says travel but my bank account says "hahahahaha NO"

Research cheap ways to travel. There are so many low cost ways to see the world. The thing is to lower you expectations. The Internet and all the reality stars make travel look like it should be 5 star all the time but staying in hostels and eating where the locals eat make it possible for normals like us to have adventures.

Maybe I will do this. Or even just take a plane across the pond and backpack

I wonder if there is a subreddit for people to host travellers so they don't have to pay for a hotel

How do you travel without money?

Not sure how it is in the US, but in Europe, people in their 20ies have a lot of free and sponsored programs for volunteering, work experience etc. Turning 30 soon and feel a little bad about myself for not using all the opportunities that I could.

In the US they straddle you with so much debt in your 20s in order to get an education that you're dealing with it for the next decade.

you're dealing with it for the next decade.

If you're lucky.

They do? Or are these mainland Europe, rather than the U.K.?

Im sure there are some in the UK as well. Might just not be aware of them. I guess it does depend a lot on the local policies as well. Every country a different world here.

The UK has working holiday visa agreements with a number of countries; Japan, S Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, NZ, Canada, and Monaco (might have missed one or two). You can stay there for 12-24 months and are able to work legally in that time. Look into it!

This would be one of those "oppressive EU regulations" you guys rejected with BREXIT, I imagine.

[deleted]

If you didn’t show up to vote it is.

You sound rich. Congrats mate. The rest of us will struggle for change.

Your 20’s were way more exciting than mine are.

Having rich parents will do that

I think this was how you’re 20’s we’re in the last few decades. But millennials are completely screwed when it comes to finding good employment and housing.

[deleted]

He's not being pessimistic, he's being realistic. If you're barely able to put any savings away from each paycheck you should not be travelling. One accident could fuck you for years as far as debt goes. Fact is, people entering the work force nowadays don't have the money to really enjoy life. Most people expect to work until they are 70, if not later now, simply due to rising costs of living and lowering wages.

Of course, most people won't have jobs in 30 years anyways, as they'll be replaced by AI, but even still.

[deleted]

making $35k/yr at an entry level job

Wat

[deleted]

Consider me very jealous

How old are you? I make around the same amount, and with all the essentials that get taken out each paycheck, yeah, no, that's not happening for me.

Yes, you’re definitely right. I myself have a great career and am in my 20’s. What I said earlier reflected what I see posted often on Reddit, where fellow millennials seem hopeless and stuck in a backwater dead town.

Or just never have kids!

I don't have time or money for any of those things.

I won’t be as young, but will be as free, no kids for me biaaaach

I don't have kids, respomsibilities, or money.

Tell that to my family. Seems everyone in my family had more freedom as they get older. My mother is always on vacations now

If this is what they call "the best years of my life" fuck just end it now

Fuck this advice to the moon. Seriously, this sounds like it's coming from someone who doesn't understand the average 20 year old, today.

Most of the people I know just want to make it. We're trying to make enough money to live, and it takes ALL of our free time. That doesn't really leave a whole lot to travel and waste money on memories.

Edit: whatever, downvote me, doesn't change shit. Kids like us, today, are the horribly off, and none of these things can be a reality.

You are totally entitled to your opinion. I don't agree with you. I am not some out of touch 50 year old. My daughter will be 20 this year. It's not like I don't see the opportunities that she has.

I'm sorry, but your advice betrays how in touch you think you are. I'd say more, but I would be reiterating my previous reply.

At 20 you don't have the money to do any of those things. You likely have a min wage job that takes up all your time and energy leaving you with barely enough money to keep your shit car running one more week. Your mom is constantly riding your ass to do something with your life, you want to get as far away from her as possible but just dont know how.

but yea, go live like a playboy millionaire while you can.

My girlfriend is going to medical school, which is at minimum 7 years of more school after college. It lasts through all of our 20s, and although I'm happy for her, I sort of feel like life is laughing in my face right now as I realize I'll barely have a girlfriend in for the next 8 years in the prime of my life

She will have more free time than you think, at least in the first two years. Med school is way more work than undergrad, but you still have multiple breaks and lots of us traveled. Also, the first two years you mostly make your own schedule so you definitely have some free time.

No.

It took me a while to get on a decent job path. I don't have time to fuck about if I want to get the rising done before I have kids and settle down. Because I can't hack kids and killing myself in work and it's not like the wife will be looking after the kids.

The most depressing thing you can tell me is that this is the prime of my life. Like, you mean it gets worse than this?

I'm taking full advantage of the travel one. I'm visiting Korea and Vietnam this summer, I'm planning to do a 24-day Europe hopping trip next summer, and my brothers and I plan to try and go to Tokyo Olympics 2020 that summer.

Oh god this. I'm just coming out of a relationship which spanned my late twenties and early thirties. She had 4 kids already. I love her, REALLY love her, but I really didn't love our life together. She was ready to settle down and live out our days on the sofa watching crime dramas... I wanted to run tough mudders, see the northern lights etc etc. I was a late starter in life so had some catching up to do, and now even moreso. Now, even in my early 30's I feel too old for a lot of stuff. So for God sake, enjoy your freedom, get everything out of your system, see the world and meet as many people as you can, while you can.

live out our days on the sofa watching crime dramas... I wanted to run tough mudders, see the northern lights etc etc.

Why not both? I love travelling with my gf either in the summer or in the winter, and we do plan to eventually see the Northern Lights, Eastern and Western Europe and other places once and if the world kinda calms down, but we also enjoy just watching the Office all week-end. They're not mutually exclusive things.

Just curious, why do you feel "too old" for stuff? Is it time, money, energy, etc?

That doesnt stop after your twenties. Sure, you have a lot more responsibilities, especially if you are growing a family. But if you have just conceded your life to paying bills, then whats the point of living.

Life doesnt end after your twenties. It certainly can change, but how you interact with that change and continue to live the life that you want to is up to you. If you have no energy or time to enjoy yourself, or life in general, you are doing something wrong.

Travel. Volunteer. Figure out who you are and what kind of person you want to be as you finish growing up.

And when you're dating, don't ever think about settling down with / moving in with / getting married to someone who wouldn't enjoy the same lifestyle.

Of course as your life gels and you get more mature you don't want to go backpacking across Europe any more, but the reason should be that you don't want to, and that you prefer to treat your partner better because you love them; not because they wouldn't put up with it.

(This is a general rule, YMMV, etc - just food for thought)

How do I figure out who I am and what I want to do? (Seriously)

I’m taking advantage of this being the last time in my life I can kindof get away with doung absolutely nothing for a day or two here and there.

Source: just turned 22

I came here to write this. I didn't start seriously working till after university. I had a couple jobs here and there but nothing that would have allowed me to travel in my early 20s. Didn't realize my mistake till I started going abroad at 25 and it's changed my life. I made so many friends around the world, have had adventures I could have only dreamt of, fulfilled so many dreams.

Travel doesn't have to be expensive and it's possible to sustain yourself by working abroad. Do your research, my first long trip included living in Australia for nearly a year and working there to afford it all. This is one of those 20s only things, It's very easy to get work holiday visas all over the world before you're 30 or 35. This is a great way to travel without spending a fortune. And if you're fortunate enough you might even get a job in the field you want or get a job that changes your career perspectives for the rest of your life.

I don't think this can be emphasised enough. You have the rest of your life to be a grown up. Go do stupid shit in your early 20s (obviously don't go overboard) and actually figure out who you are as a person.

I think it's insane that these days kids have so much fucking pressure to achieve in high school so they can get into their university course and then start their career. Take time to experiment for a bit and see what else is out there.

Pile up debts. Never ever ever do that, ever, for anything and nobody, never co sign for a loan. Im 28 this friday and Im still trying to repay the debts I piled up 8 years ago in just a few months. NEVER! EVER!

What did you get in debt with? How how can you cut the habit before it's too late?

Use credit cards like a credit card. Don't buy things you can't pay for. If you absolutely HAVE to, make sure to pay as much off as possible.

Be aware that credit isn't free money and live within your means. In my case that means living at home where expenses are minimal and driving a car that's 18 years old so I can save up as much money as possible.

Make sure to do LOTS of research before any big financial decisions.

Pretty much just full on wasted money on things that didn't matter or contributed anything other than a hard lesson for me...

never co sign for a loan

There are two exceptions to this rule. Your spouse and your kids.

Nope. Some friends of mine did that for their spouses. They didn't use the money right and ended up having to pay it all off, breaking up with them as they go.

Ouch

Yep. I've learned from all the mistakes lol. Debts are a bitch, so much stress around money, horrible.

I’d argue that if you can’t trust your spouse enough to co-sign they shouldn’t be your spouse.

You can trust someone for a lifetime but when money is involved, you'd be surprised how far people can go to break that trust.

Thank you. This makes me feel better about a recent mistake I made. I really trusted and emotionally invested in someone who really hurt me. I feel like it was incredibly stupid in hindsight and I can't stop thinking about what I could have done to mitigate things. But I guess it's a lesson I needed to learn.

What if I want to buy a house?

Hahaha good joke, I doubt I’ll ever be able to buy a house

You and me both.

Save up most of the money so you'll have to pay less to them and won't be owing nobody a thing. Also if you pile up debt and something happens to you like losing a job or you need to spend a lot of time in a hospital or death, someone will still pay it out for you if you can't, that someone is going to be the person that co signed on it, they'll probably wont like you much.

Don't ever ever ever ever EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER do heroin.

I promise you, no matter how special, smart, witty, intelligent, whatever, you are, you are not the one magical person on earth who will be able to dabble with it and be just fine.

Don't hang out with people that take hours to txt you back, that when you hang out they are on their phones the whole time.

And this is why I dont have friends anymore...

So hang out with no one? Check

You have to understand that some people are actually busy, or can't reach the phone. Don't let a few bad apples spoil the good ones!

Couldn’t agree more. Please believe they are not interested in you.

Not realizing that all of the "adult" stuff older people like their parents have didn't "just happen". You don't just "get" a house, or a family, or a car, or a career. You need to put a lot of effort into getting those things. That doesn't mean you need to start working on it as soon as you graduate high school but it does mean that you need to at least understand that. Because you don't want to wake up one day when you're 35 still working the same dead end job you had when you were 25 and living in the same tiny apartment in the "cool" part of town and wonder where all of your friends are. They left you behind. Because they realized that homes, families and careers don't "just happen".

And you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking

Second time comment I’ve seen in this thread.

Yes. Apologies for the duplicate.

It just seemed apropos in a slightly different context here.

There are a lot of Pink Floyd quotes in this thread.

But then there's also part where you can work super hard at something (or some things) and for them to not work out. And you just have to learn to persevere.

I have a few friends who just stumbled into things. My friend met her husband on POF. He was the 3rd person she talked to and they just clicked, it was her first time online dating. 10 years later they are married and have kids.

Meanwhile I've been on and offline, met many people and am still trying to figure out what I am doing wrong and how to get to that next step.

I've ended things and started over many times. Nothing has stuck.

I'm not saying my friend hasn't put work into her relationship. But I know I have put A LOT of work into my past relationships, as well as myself. And so far I feel like I'm not getting very far, which is incredibly frustrating.

The one thing I have gotten out of it though is that I know how to persevere. So that's something.

Going to college because you think you have to, or that you'll be a loser for the rest of your life if you take a break. I wasted 8 free semesters of school screwing off that I could have spent having fun doing anything but dragging myself to classes I didn't want to be in. I took a 3 year break and finished up in 4 more focused semesters, but still ended up with 25k in student loans that I simply wouldn't have had to pay if I wasn't such a hard headed jackass.

There's no shame in taking a break. If you're not ready, you're not ready. Don't try to force it and rack up a bunch of student loans you don't have to.

Third year in college, depressed and failed a bunch of classes. I’ve recently decided to take a year off of school to take care of myself and give myself more time and space to plan my future. This was a difficult decision that I was on the fence on for a while now and I really needed to see this, so thank you.

I'm about to graduate and I felt the same way my junior year. I have found so much value in sticking it though to this last year. I now have a clearer sense of direction in my life as the result of two classes I took my senior year.

I helps to take classes you're interested in, or at least find some value in. It's no good just taking classes to meet requirements because you feel like you have to complete your major or finish your degree. Make sure you are proud of the degree you earned.

So basically, I'd say stick it through and graduate. You're not alone in feeling that way and its completely normal to feel like that. Lacking a clear sense of direction. Take care of yourself and plan for your future while you are in college, get that degree, then start chasing that future that want to see for yourself.

[deleted]

Same here. After HS, it was uni or being kicked out.

Got out in December. Shitty degree, zero job prospects, and payments I somehow have to make. Working minimum wage (all that's available in my area unless I get more loans to go to trade school) won't even pay my full loan amount each month.

Glad you went back, do the best you can.

[deleted]

Yikes. I'll take my state school education, and my modest debt to income ratio. Sorry about your luck..

I'm 25 now but I'm already in a situation I regret. I am currently pregnant (wasn't planned) and I can already agree with all the "don't waste money on stupid things" kind of stuff. I am extremely depressed about the pregnancy and I struggle with thinking of it in any positive way because I know I am stuck with that huge responsibility in the future. Not being able to travel, scraping every last coin for every single meal. I was too afraid to lose my boyfriend who was really happy about the child but I need to say I regret this every single day and the kid isnt even born yet. #iwishiwouldjustdisappear

Adoption

I am ... no was honestly considering it. I still am maybe. But the father is against it and I don't want to lose him. When I bought it up to my mother she cried and said that the kid didn't chose to be born this way and I shouldn't make it's life miserable by giving it away. I'm torn.

Hey girl, kids given up to adoption do not automatically have ruined lives. There are plenty of loving families who adopt. Don't put yourself through something you're not ready for just to appease other people. And being afraid to lose the dad shouldn't be a factor. Someone who truly loves you would want to work out whatever situation is best for all of you. If you're seriously feeling awful about this situation, talk to someone about adoption. You're strong and smart, you've got this.

I was adopted and it was the best thing ever. I ~~had~~ have two parents who actually wanted me and actually cared about me. You’re not adopting them to a fucking crack house. These people are vetted, have money, are actively trying to add love to their lives.

But the father is against it and I don't want to lose him. When I bought it up to my mother she cried and said that the kid didn't chose to be born this way and I shouldn't make it's life miserable by giving it away. I'm torn.

You think your kid is going to be happy having a mother who resents them? Who feels like they're life is over and they were better off not having a kid, but they were too afraid of being alone that they went through with it? How do you think your kid will feel knowing that? Your kid will be a human being and there is no shame in trying to find them a family that will love them if you aren't able to provide for them whether it's money or love.

To add to this, hate to bring this up but you can never really trust this stuff. A guy who may leave for this today may most definitely leave for something else tomorrow. People move on, people die. Have you considered what may happen if he chooses to leave after 5 years? Then you are stuck with a child you resent all by yourself. And kids always know. If you think the child won't know how you feel, they always know. It ends up messing them up for life. Would urge you to reconsider adoption and meet some potential parents. This is not how you should be feeling while starting a family. It is not fair to you and certainly not fair to a child who is only being kept in the family so that someone doesn't leave you.

Adoption is not an option if the father is against it.

Isn‘t it? AFAIK the mother and ONLY the mother decides what happens with the child.

Not once it's born. If the father decides to take full custody she could get stuck with child support payments. This rarely ever happens because most women decide to keep it once the father makes it clear that he'd sink any adoption plans.

Wouldn’t that be a case of mater semper certa est? And it‘d depend on which country OP is from.

In my country it’s the mother who decides.

I'm from Germany

I know this sounds cliche but it's your kid and if you don't think you can handle it you should definetly give it to someone you trust (that could also be an organisation that handles adoptions). Why should you ruin your life in such a significant way just to avoid making others sad?

Your kid is more likely to have a miserable life in a household where they were unplanned that can't truly support them. My parents had me when they were both 19. One day when I was like 7 my mom went off on me, told me I ruined her life. Even if she hadn't told me I would have figured it out eventually. I can't imagine wanting that for ones child.

My grandma said the same thing to my mom, and my mom has never forgiven her, even after 50-some years. These things are serious.

You need to make this decision for yourself. I know you're afraid of losing your SO, but if he won't respect your decision on this then it may not be a relationship you want to stay in. It's better to start over than to be regretful for the rest of your life.

Well I can't abort since it's too late for that. The kid will be here in not even 2 months. I feel like I have no choice anymore

But you can adopt! It is almost never a good idea to do anything due to fear. If he loves you, he'll understand. If your mother loves you, she'll understand. Tell them your fears, communicate. And if they don't understand, you're strong enough to stand on your own. Maybe you'll get super lucky and learn to love your child eventually. But you will NEVER regret doing what you think is right.

Edit: Want to add that there are other options. You can give the rights over to your mother or your bf. Or you can let them know that you understand what they want and want them to be happy so they can take care of it, but you'll have a very minimum amount of contact with your child. There's probably other ideas, but know that there isn't just one road to take!

That's what they keep saying. You will learn to love it. My mother keeps saying that I will look at it when it's born and that I will love it. I don't believe that. I talked about my fears and I talked about me being so unhappy about it but my mother says it's the panic and it will fade and that I will love it eventually. I don't even want that. They are trying their best to support me. I feel terrible for it. My mother said that she doesn't even feel happy about the news anymore because I don't feel happy. When she said that it really hit home. I feel guilty about it.

But you shouldn't feel bad about a new child, right? You're supposed to be excited to have one, but you're not, and that's okay. It's really great that they're trying to support you, and I'm sure they're good people, but everyone has issues and they're pushing their wants on you, too. And that's really not cool. There's no easy solution, but no one can blame you for doing what you think is right for you. And honestly, yes you feel guilty about not wanting it now, but can you imagine how guilty you'll feel if you don't love your child, and don't want it? How guilty you'll feel for thinking you could be a better mother? How much pressure people will put on you THEN? What will you think in ten years?

You will learn to love it. My mother keeps saying that I will look at it when it's born and that I will love it. I don't believe that.

It's possible I guess. But It's also possible that resentment is there for that child even if you don't want it to be. I'd do anything for my 5 year old, but that bond still isn't there... And it's the most depressing thing in the entire world, because I'm always stuck thinking about how he deserves better. I do my best, but building a relationship with him has been a very real struggle for me. It genuinely didn't even feel like he was mine when he was born...

Edit to add for clarification: I'm the mom.

That sounds like a terrible situation to be in. Was it planned or unplanned? That must be a nightmare to feel that way. I hope it will get better for you. You deserve better too it's not like you chose to feel that way.

It was unplanned, but we didn't exactly prevent it either. We knew what we were doing; I was 19 (had only lost my virginity a few months prior), fiance was 18, and I had our son when I was 20. Having a baby right after graduating isn't exactly what we had in mind. But, it is what it is.

I'm sorry I made it sound so terrible, but honestly it really was... Only recently did I become emotionally ready to be a mother and he is 5. It's really hard to explain. I've done everything on autopilot, and by the book; nothing came naturally to me whatsoever. I never enjoyed him as a baby, and I struggle to really truly enjoy him now. I try not to be so hard on myself because he was a difficult baby and toddler, but I genuinely think he needed more love from me. I've been a very angry, depressed, and emotionally distant mother for most of his life. It didn't help that I never thought about kids. I didn't not want them, but I didn't exactly want them either. I was an only child and had never so much as been in the same room as a baby. I was very, very sheltered for reasons that are difficult to explain with few words. My relationship with his father was rocky at best when he was born, which didn't help. I was young, stupid, and inexperienced. I've felt guilty for keeping him many times... I love him enough to know that he deserved better in his earliest years. I'm still picking up the pieces.

With that said, It is getting better... It just hasn't been an easy road. It may never be easy for me to look at this wonderful little boy who reminds me of such a dark time. If I could do it all again, the only thing I would do differently is wait. If I could have my son as a baby now things would be so much different. Our mother-son relationship didn't come naturally, and it's taken a lot of work, but I can see it improving every day. I've had a LOT of learning and maturing to do.

Fiance and I are trying for baby #2 soon, and I worry that we will have a better bond with this "planned" baby... I'm terrified of unintentionally showing favoritism. :(

I have a lot of guilt I wish I could get rid of. But, I feel like that's just part of being a parent. Being unprepared just makes it that much more difficult. I really think you should do what is best for you in this scenario; the baby will be loved by someone. Whether it's you, or an adoptive parent. They will be okay. Kids are resilient. They don't care who loves them, they just want to be loved. Maybe it's selfish, but I'm still glad I chose to keep my son. You won't regret keeping them if you do, but I'm not going to lie to you; it may not be the happiest or even the best thing you do. Regardless of what you choose, it will be the most difficult thing you will ever do. Trust yourself to make the right decision, and don't let your family influence your choice. They aren't the ones spending time and money on this baby... You are.

No offense, but fuck your mother and your bf. If you do not want the responsibility of raising a kid, don't. That child is more important than your mother/bf wanting a child. It's plenty of ppl that will take him in. Or just sign the rights over to the father.

I bet you could look into an open adoption where you get to meet your child’s future caregivers. They will send you updates and pictures so you can see how your child is doing. Infant adoptions generally have the most stringent requirements, so you know they’ll be in good hands.

You are NOT making a child’s life miserable by giving it up to be adopted. Who the hell even says that? Loads of kids get adopted and have great lives, better than they would have had if they had been kept by parents who were unprepared to raise them. No, your kid didn’t chose to be born by accident, but you didn’t chose to have this kid either. Now that it’s happening, it IS completely your choice about what to do. Your SO needs to respect and understand that. If you don’t want to spend the next forever caring for this kid, or you don’t feel like you’ll be able, let someone else do it.

iwishiwouldjustdisappear

Abortion? Adoption?

Abortion

It's too late for that. The kid will be here in not even 2 months

Is he aware of the situation he put you in?

Yes he knows that I feel terrible about it. He also knows that I feel really bad about taking a lot of his happiness away with my negative feelings toward it. But he can't do much about it. He tries to stay positive

Abortion?

I'm 33 weeks along. Abortion is no option.

Oh damn.

I think you need to discuss this with your boyfriend, you need tell him that you don't want this child as bad as it sounds.

I cannot imagine raising a child if I don't want it.

I did already tell my family and him. Everyone is against it. They say I will eventually come to love it. Ever had the feeling of being a bystander in your own life ?

Just because you live somewhere with legalized marijuana, doesn't mean you should be buying and smoking it everyday.

I've seen many people not pay rent, but buy weed 'because they can'.

Smoke as much weed as you want, just be 100% fucking sure you deserve to be smoking it. Don't smoke weed when know you need to doing something productive.

Accomplish the goal, THEN smoke the bowl

People who spend other people’s cash on weed disgust me, won’t ever complain about a hard worker easing off with joint though

Same with alcohol, cocaine, any substance abuse. Recognizing/acknowledging addiction is something you avoid in your 20s for sure. (I know there’s no clinical addiction to weed but we all know someone who can’t function without being high 24/7)

Not saying that I don't know some idiots that do spend their NEEDED money on weed, but as an everyday stoner its a lil strange (in my opinion) you called out marijuana only and not all the other drugs (alcohol, anxiety meds, opiods, nicotine even) that people will waste money on. It's not the substance, it's the irresponsible person.

Too true. I live in rural Ohio. Extremely cheap area, but I know a few people who uprooted their lives and moved to Colorado just for legal weed. Most of them realized that some of the highest living costs in the USA weren't worth it for a fucking plant, and moved back. The one who didn't became a cam girl, haha.

It’s the classic dilemma, Mom uses food stamps to buy food for her kids, uses cash to pay for cigarettes and beer.

Turning 30 in a couple of months, so here's the ones I've observed:

  • Trying to settle down too quickly. This is the best time to travel, indulge in hobbies, and explore your life before you're saddled down with kids and serious commitments. My fiance and I do not plan to have kids til we're in our mid 30's because we enjoy going on adventures together! Also, even if you're single or do not have a travel partner that does not mean you should not explore as much as you can and live life to the fullest!
  • Living beyond your means and not learning how to budget correctly. When you begin your career, you are finally making a decent income, but do not forget that you should have several months of rent saved up (i.e. a "rainy day" fund) and simply because you have money in the bank, that does not mean you should spend all of it!
  • Not starting a retirement fund. This goes with my above point. Fortunately, I have a dad who is very knowledgeable when it comes to investing and helped me pick the right funds for my retirement account once I had my first job out of college and what percentage to contribute, but I know not everyone has that kind of resource available to them or even know they should start a retirement fund. Take the time to learn about bonds, mutual funds, 401k options, etc...to ensure you're on the right track because in 50 years you don't want to still be working 40+ hours a week to keep your life afloat.

Just turned 30 a few months ago, and I 100% second this. My mum was an accountant, and my dad owned his own business, so there was money talks all the time at the dinner table. It's probably the reason why I'm paranoid about eating instant noodles everyday during retirement until I die. Or keep working until I die, one of the two.

About half of every paycheck goes in to savings, RRSP, etc. because of said paranoia, and I'm living and eating well (no drugs, alcohol, or smoking. Saves a ton). I have no debts. I live on my own, and I don't make a lot, but if I ever have kids, I'm going to do for them what my parents did for me.

That being said, I've just gotten the approval for a working holiday visa to Australia. I'm going to do it. I hate my job. Better now - single, no kids, no mortgage - than later, when I regret next year not doing it because I aged out. (I'm Canadian, fwiw)

So the advice part:

  1. Working holidays!! Take the leap, get out of your comfort zone, and just do it. Went to NZ alone for a year when I was 26, and it was the best decision of my life. You grow and learn so much. I recommend this to anyone who contemplates travelling, even if it's just one year.

  2. Don't wait to do things until you retire. What happens if you get into an accident, and confined to a wheelchair, or stuck in a bed for the rest of your life, or lose sight/hearing? You'll regret not learning to snowboard, to hike that mountain, read that book. I mean, stay within your financial means, but don't wait too long.

Yes! My fiance and I traveled around Iceland for two weeks last summer and it was phenomenal! Rented a tiny car, booked some Air BnB's, and drove around the whole country. We both have friends and family members who had kids in their mid-20's right out of college and traveling was immediately out of the question for them. We also rock climb together and, during warmer weather, take regular weekend trips to do outdoor climbs, which, again, cannot be done when you have kids (we technically have a dog, but she's our crag mascot!).

That's fantastic! Iceland is somewhere I plan to get to at some point in my life. I do highly recommend New Zealand! There's so much to see and do, and a lot of it is just breathtaking. A lot of climbing, hiking, and caving. All very rewarding.

I also have friends who are either with kids, and/or locked in to their jobs. A lot of us are in a really small and extremely competitive sector of public health, so for those who managed to land those jobs, they're staying until they retire. I'm sort of that stray straggler who has neither (blessing and/or a curse). I love the freedom of doing whatever I want on my time off without having to commit to taking care of anyone else. Defo in to the weekend and after work hikes and paddle sports! Enjoy it while you can, eh?

I spent 2 weeks in Iceland and I catch myself wishing I was there like every other day man... It's a beautiful place. Definitely gotta travel as much as you can, while you can.

As someone who’s about the same age and only can work part time currently, looks like I’m fucked.

I am looking to move out of state by myself alone (25M), you would suggest it? It is a serious, serious thought of mine and i dont wanna regret not doing it

I would, as long as you can afford it. I'm fairly conservative with my money (though I do spend on seasonal ski passes, membership fees for watersports and gym), but I only indulge when I know I can pay my monthly bills and cards in full EVERY MONTH, and still have leftover to push in to savings, and rainy days. This impacts the amount of money banks will loan you when and if you need it (like mortgages and stuff, I believe. I'm not at that stage of life yet). Like someone else mentioned in this thread, even if it was $10/paycheck to save, at least it's better than nothing. Increase when you make more.

I don't live in America (I'm assuming this when you say "state"), but if it's anything like the differences between the Canadian provinces, you want to find out what your new job is going to pay, and how long you'll be leeching from your savings until you get a job. Taxes might be different, too. How much is accommodations going to cost in your target city/town? Willing to share accommodations? Is it easy to find a place? Will you Airbnb until you find a place? Does your new home include utilities (air con will bite hard in summer)? Are you moving anything from your current place to your new place? <-- we can claim moving expenses here in Canada if you move a certain distance away. You might want to check if there's an equivalent where you are. Keep receipts of flights, gas, etc.

Then comes food costs, car stuff and insurance if you have to switch licenses/plates/fees (They gouge us in BC, and taxes are higher), gas, and then some extra for when friends and family visit, or colleagues wanting to go for a beer on Friday after work.

And, of course, savings.

Nerdily, I have an Excel file that I use to determine how much I can afford on x dollars of income. Pie chart, everything. Did this before I made the jump to NZ to make sure I didn't need to ask for help from anyone.

My parents always said for me to stay home and save money until I could afford my own place (read: buy property), which is great and really considerate of them. The bank account gets fat fast, except my family, when in close proximity for over 25 years, drives me absolutely mental, so I left for NZ, gained my complete independence and never looked back.

Tl;dr: Calculate what you can afford, and make sure you have enough money to draw upon until you're settled in with a job without having to borrow money. Banks can be unforgiving with money owed to them. If you can't afford it, stay where you are until you can.

How does one "enroll" in a working holiday? I put quotes since you mentioned you could age out, but I don't know the right term. I'm asking for your experience, but will also Google since I'm in the US

Depending on the agreements the US has with other countries, there are age limits, as well as limits as to length of time you can stay. Some don't have agreements at all, so you're limited to going in vacation to the countries.

Basically what it is, is to get young people out exploring the world. The main purpose of the visa is to holiday, but it also allows you to work to be able to stay for x number of months. You are out there with other young people from all different countries in the same position as you are: having fun, learning and experiencing what the world has to offer.

Example: as a Canadian going to Australia, I had to pay $400 AUD (thereabouts) for the WHV. I am not worried, because their minimum wage is at least $20/hr, and I also have a degree, so I'm not limited to, say, restaurant or retail work (yes, servers will be paid at least minimum wage, too). The visa lasts for one year starting the day I set foot in Australia, before I have to leave the country. Age limit for me to do a WHV in Oz is 31. Once I hit 31, game over. That door is forever closed.

You can check out the gov of Oz website:

https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/trav/visa-1/462-

As far as I understand, the US doesn't have many agreements with other countries, so you'll have to do some searching around to confirm or deny this. Keep an eye out for updates. When I looked last year, they had the age limit at 30. Checked again late last year because I was making myself feel awful for not doing it earlier, and found they upped it to 31. They are looking in to upping it again to 35, but don't count on it.

You should take a trip to r\financial independence

Can you expand on what a working holiday is?

Hi! Someone's asked about this the other day, so scroll down a little and you'll see it. It's basically a visa that allows you to work while on holiday so you're able to stay in another country for an extended period of time without needing to be filthy rich to sustain living solely off your bank savings.

My fiance and I do not plan to have kids til we're in our mid 30's because we enjoy going on adventures together!

My only caveat to this is plan ahead, and make sure you are prepared for the potential consequences because having children when you are older (>35, especially women) carries notably higher risk for both baby and mom. Tons of people still do it and things go wonderfully, but it is objectively riskier. Just so people don't go in thinking it's the same as it would be in their 20's.

No worries. I'm well aware. We're actually considering adopting or surrogacy because I have health conditions that would pose any pregnancy high risk or not possible for me. I was actually adopted, so I'm also quite knowledgeable with that process too :)

I do however understand others needing to be aware because if you don't do the research, kids may not happen or not as easily as expected.

Good on you for considering adoption, I think it's a major problem in the US and I'm always glad to see someone that is a success story looking to give back to others. That's awesome.

But yes, people need to do their research before they commit to something they can't go back on. Once you get old, you can't change young you's decisions.

Your first point contradicts your second and third.

How so? You can still travel and indulge in hobbies within a financially reasonable space. It seemed a bit silly and obvious if I added a note to be financially responsible while living life. You can also start a retirement fund at any time, even if you're not settled down in one place, or, at the very least, do research on investing and how to start a fund. Even if you're not working with a company that has a retirement plan, you can still set up a 401k with a brokerage firm and contribute to it each month or find another means to put away money for your retirement.

I'm also turning 30 in a couple months... I'm having trouble just realizing where the heck all the time went... lol

Don't get me wrong I've done OK, I think, compared to a lot of my peers... I've traveled a fair bit and have my finances more or less in order... But man does getting to 30 and seeing celebrities that are younger than you make me feel wierd and old...

I think I need to get out more though, I have the opposite problem of "settle down too quickly" ... it's lonely most of the time... been mostly single in my 20s.

Anyhow, what did your dad recommend as far as retirement accounts/mutual funds? I rolled over my first job's 401k into a Vanguard Trad. IRA, and have also maxed out a Roth IRA in 2017... I've got about 30% of my yearly salary saved up at this point... but I feel I should have more...

My retirement fund is through Vanguard too, but the specific funds do depend on what is offered to you. The ones I'm in are a mutual fund specifically for stocks from S&P 500 companies and then a fund that is a combination of small, medium, and large companies. It allows for diversification (my dad loves that word), so if one section does bad in the market, you do not lose everything. Since my choice of funds are limited within my company's retirement plan, I'm only split between those 2 funds. If you want to learn more, you should read brokerage articles about different funds to learn the process. That's how my dad got started. He's actually an English teacher, but took a serious interest in investing when he was my age and learned as much as he could about stocks, funds, bonds, etc...

Ah gotcha, that's awesome. Yeah I've started to learn about investing in general now that I have a bit of money to actually invest.

I'm actually using Vanguard directly not thru my company, they use another brokerage. When I quit my last job, I just rolled over my 401k from Nationwide Bank to a Vanguard account I opened individually... a lot of times the investment options offered to some smaller company's as retirement plans really suck, and have high fees.

As far as retirement funds go, I am one of those whose is pretty lost despite trying my best to understand all the ins and outs and options. Do you know of any good resources for learning at least the functional basics?

There is a little bit of jargon you'll need to look up, so I can't promise that this is a ELI5 resource, but Jack Bogle (the man behind the Vanguard Index Funds) has a brilliant website with loads of "fiduciary-minded" advice.

Depending on your current comfort level with the jargon, this page on what he calls "lazy portfolios" is where I started to really feel like I could understand the process enough to manage it myself.

I don't care about the utter minitae of it, all I care is that I set up a long-term-focused portfolio and a plan to manage it (less is more!) over the course of my investing days. Most importantly, I don't have to bother with it outside of an hour or two every few years at most. If that page is a little too much, definitely navigate to the getting started page and read on through there. You can do this :)

My direct resource is my dad, but he spends a lot of time reading articles from brokerage firms. Those give you info about all different ways to invest and specific details about each stock/fund. I'd also recommend looking for a book that can give you a simplistic overview of economics. Knowing what different economic terms mean, how things are measured, what affects stocks, etc...may provide great background info.

Turning 30 in a month. Almost everyone I went to school with married and had kids early. Many of them have more than one, usually three. I can't assume they all feel like they gave something up; as long as they're happy, whatever. But I distinctly remember when they started announcing engagements and I felt like something was wrong with me because I wasn't even in a serious relationship. Now I'm like, what were these kids doing getting married at 20?!

There's definitely nothing inherently wrong with having kids at a younger age, but I've met enough who regretted not taking time to travel and, honestly, be selfish for a few years. Some of my college friends who are already parents for sure love their kids, but even those have made side comments to me about how much they would've loved to travel to the places I've been to before having kids.

Yeah, and traveling the world isn't for everyone either, so it's possible that there are people who don't feel as if they missed out. And they can always travel as a family and experience things in a different way. I'm not judging what anyone does with their lives as long as they're happy and their kids are happy, but in hindsight, 20 just seems awfully young to start a family.

Even if you're not into traveling, it's about that ability to be selfish and do things for yourself. Once you have kids, it's a lot more difficult to have those moments to yourself. Of course, parents have hobbies, but those hobbies can no longer come first once you have kids. Your 20's are a great time to do those things and not feel bad about being selfish in certain aspects of your life.

It does. I think that's part of why it's hard for me to picture some of them as parents, especially at that young of an age, because it wasn't always the ones who seemed willing to make those sacrifices. But of course, people can surprise you!

Well at least they got something tangible out of it. How about wasting the majority of your 20s in a long-distance relationship that went nowhere?

If you feel like you wasted your 20's in a LDR, then, to be honest, that's your problem. To me, that does not qualify as a mistake in your 20's for this thread. If you could not see the relationship was going nowhere, then that's not a common mistake made by someone in their 20's, that's your own inability to see the truth.

probably should start kids before mid 30s. The DNA starts revealing age beyond 30 and the chances for birth defects or subfertility increases a lot.

And ability to detect birth defects is significantly better with today's technology. I'm honestly not concerned. Plenty of my female coworkers have had all their kids in their 30's without serious issues. Not everything you read on the internet is true.

I learned about this from a medical journal, but am glad to hear positive anecdotes.

Which, again, are not always to be trusted. Sometimes the sample sizes in those studies are low and should be taken with a grain of salt. I could be wrong, but I work in the medical industry, specifically doing stats, and I've seen lots of articles that should not have been published for such reasons. Just know that every case is different and the best thing to do is talk to your doctor about the specific risks for your body and genealogy.

Uh, it's scientific fact that there is degeneracy in sperm of older males..

biggest mistake is NOT putting away a small piece of what they make.

It is a basic concept, but put away ___% of your paycheck BEFORE you pay bills or do anything.

Edit - I know, it doesn’t seem like this applies to you, right? Believe me , it does. If your cheque makes were 10 percent less you’d figure out a way. The reason we don’t save is because we don’t make ourselves the priority. Notice how rent gets gets paid every month? It’s because you have decided that it is a priority.

This. I put 10% of my paycheck into a 401k every pay period. 5 years later, I've got $50k and I don't even notice the money's not there.

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so would a 10% increase in costs. From the looks of it, you are living far beyond your means. rent can't be 75% of your income. You are already starving based on the numbers you give.

Going to college for the wrong thing and/or not thinking about how your degree will apply to your future career goals.

I don't care what your bubbly high school or college guidance counselor tells you— having A degree is not enough. You have to have the RIGHT degree.

Goes back to flipping burgers.

So you got a culinary degree?

Even worse

Music?

Even worse- anthropology.

That was my minor. Spoiler alert, I’m not Indiana Jones.

Anthropology magazines, museum curator (smaller museums are always looking for good folks), even specialty libraries. There's heritage management, civil service, conservation. Sociology is an option. Data analysis is another big field to look into.

Anthropology is a science humanities degree. You just have to look a little bit. :)

When I look at people with degrees who aren't successful, I rarely attribute it to the degree. It's usually the person. When I see very successful people, I also rarely attribute it to the degree. In that sense, if you have the makeup (work ethic, communication skills), you will probably be successful regardless of your degree. If you have middling skills/motivation otherwise, the type of degree is a game-changer.

Good to know that I'm the problem.

Maybe, maybe not, but I bet it's not the degree. Like I said, if you're in a situation where you're struggling to get by, then a better degree might get you a job where you're making $55k instead of $28k. That's significant, and I don't mean to discount that, but if you're aiming for more, there's a lot to be had

I would legitimately shit a brick to make even 20k a year, let alone 28 or 55.

It's all good though. College was a good few years, and I learned a lot from my experiences. I'm not bitter about it anymore. I just don't want kids to make the same mistakes I did.

After looking at all the stats I could find, a person in my area could have a decent life for $21k a year. Some of the lowest living costs in the USA, but that's because there are no jobs paying close to that. Store managers, postal workers, etc, make good money, but they've been in those jobs since before I was born around here.

$21k a year would change my fucking life. I'm right there with you.

Thanks, but a couple years late on this one.

This may sound really stupid and poetic, but a big mistake one could make is not making enough mistakes. Your 20's are supposed to be a time of trial and error. I hope you take this with common sense.

This does not mean to make the "mistake" of doing black tar heroin or sticking your fingers up an unwilling girls skirt. Just do not encase yourself in this insecure bubble that will lead to deep regret later in life.

This has nowhere near enough upvotes. Don't wait until you're "good enough".
You can afford to make mistakes in your 20's (short of getting hooked on drugs, having a kid before you're ready or going skiing while blindfolded) so take those risks and learn from them.
Pretty much everything you do at that age (bar say, being an athlete) you're gonna be surrounded by people who have been doing what you wanna do for ages. So immerse yourself in their experience and earn your own.
Start that business. Enter that painting in a competition. Write that screenplay. And tell that person you like that you like them.
If you fail, learn from it and be grateful for the education. Then try again, utilising what you've learned.

"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better." - Samuel Beckett

Mega guilty of this. I'm 20 and haven't done anything since 16. I didnt go to senior prom, Have never had a girlfriend, Barely have any friends after 2 years in College, I'm scared of everything so i just spend all day in my dorm playing videogames like a loser.

I'm such a pathetic mess.

You're not a loser or a mess, dog. You're just in a negative feedback loop. You're in school, which means you both graduated secondary school and got accepted into a college of some type. You have a hobby- gaming- which may not seem like much right now, but you're not exclusively vegging tf out in bed all day. Those are net positives: you had the competency to graduate, get into college and stay there at least 2 years now. That's fuckin huge: cut yourself some slack.

I skipped my prom, lost every single friend I had from HS, played World of Warcraft for 4 years straight with little to no social interaction. I was a miserable shit goblin and I hated myself and what a fucking useless wasteoid I was. I assumed I would be dead at 20: not because I would kms , I just assumed I would die somehow at that age.

It only changed because I finally got it through my thick ass skull that if I'm miserable, I'm only going to keep being miserable until I do some shit to change it. I can sit around being disgusted that I'm literally unwashed for 2 weeks and reek and about to be kicked out of my home and I'm not even fucking good at the game I've spent 4 years on, or I can at least try something.

I got my ass into therapy, found a medication that helps my shitty brain actually process seratonin. 4 years later I'm in recovery. I still feel like shit a lot of the time: I live at home, no school, never had a job. I just ended my only relationship last fall & I'm reconciling that it maybe wasn't the healthiest for me either. But I can leave the house now. I've reconnected with a few actual good friends and left the rest. I've actually traveled- not a lot, but a little- and actually been social IRL with WoW friends instead of just vegging out farming herbs or whatever the fuck I did for 2 expansions. I have more feelings than "I hate myself," "I'm tired," and "I don't feel anything." I still struggle to function, I'm still fighting a battle to be healthier, but I'm fighting now.

So your shit sucks now. Whatever. You can sit and hate yourself and not try anything and just stew, yeah? Or you can try, and maybe it helps, which would probably be nice. And if it doesn't, the security I found is "well I already don't like myself and think of myself as a failure, so what's one more?"

Do better for yourself my dude. Even if you don't think you deserve it, do it because you feel that people around you deserve it.

(Also r/malementalhealth - it's what's for dinner)

Make yourself join clubs at your college. Best way to make friends.

Noo, this is a great answer! We end of 20s will all will speak to ourselves and our desires of what we want ourselves to be, more so than finding an actual one-fits-all advice.

Yes you are spot on. Taking risks and occasionally acting spontaneously is the best way obtain stories you can look back on when you're too old to do anything fun. Every vacation I have ever had where the entire trip was planned out months before was less memorable than making an adventure

I totally agree. It took me until age 28-30 to start taking big risks and being a little more liberal with my decisions. I was sooooo concerned with screwing up my life that I did everything by the book early. I wish I would have taken some bigger risks earlier, because I feel like I could be experiencing all the good things from the past few years a lot sooner. Hindsight is always 20/20 though.

As a perpetually anxious 24 year old... how do you do this?

Read good literature, join the army, move out of your parents’ house, etc... In short: think, explore, experience.

One thing that I realized is that opportunity is always going to exist. The world is always going to need doctors, nurses, engineers, programmers, teachers and managers. If you have a useful skill set or plan to develop one some day, there is a need for it somewhere, some place.

I always think in terms of "what's the worst thing that can happen"? Now obviously in this thread there's things that you don't want to do because they're hard to reverse. But spending your savings, your last 1000 dollars buying a beat up car to go on an epic road trip is not an irreversible mistake. Money...you can make it back again later. That kind of risk could change your life. Or worst case scenario it's a funny story you can tell later...That's just a random example. Whatever it is that you're thinking about doing, that sounds a little out of line, just make the time and go do it, in any way possible. School or a job somewhere will be there if you need to put that stuff on pause. Don't let anyone tell you differently. There's people/companies out there that like to scare and control others so they can lock them down. You will have good options in life, in the future. Dont let fear or people tell you any differently.

Make some wacky life plans and go for it!

I honestly hate this mentality of having to make mistakes to learn how to live life. For the most part if you had halfway decent guidance from your parents/ family then you should be able to navigate your 20s without having to play a trial and error game. Yeah you're going you mess up from time to time, but everyone does no matter what age you are. One of the best things you can do to hep yourself is pay attention to the world around you and how other people mess up. Saving myself a future edit, this is obviously contingent on having a somewhat nurturing upbringing. Obviously if you haven't been prepared by whoever did/ didn't raise you, you're going to have a harder time than someone who was taught more about life.

I’ve taken this to heart. I’m pretty nerdy and safe with the law, but me and my meme friend have started to do urban exploration sometimes to do something with our lives. I even climbed a fence with a loose dog on the other side for a shortcut with him, even if that dog was like 8 inches tall I feel brave. I hate hearing my dad talk about his fun early mistakes and me being so boring, so I’ve started to introduce risk into my life and it’s pretty fun 👍

I've got more than my fair share of mistakes under my belt, I have nothing to worry about in this regard.

I’m proud of every mistake I’ve ever made I couldn’t stand it at the time but looking back I couldn’t be happier seeing how much trouble I’ve been saved every time I’ve learnt a lesson from a mistake

Worrying about the rate your completing life goals such as getting a dream job, apartment, house marriage etc. Worrying about not meeting expectations. Worrying about what others will think of you.

Almost 30 still learning some of these.

I am 23 and i realised this 6 months back , meeting expectations of others is sad , but when you know you can do something and you dont do it . Not meeting your own expectations that is too painful to handle . Then comes the question of "Am I worth it ?" .Oh Boy !

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Does a cup of wine at night 4-5 times a week count as excessive ._.

It's recommended by some doctors for stress relief but I'd try not going with wine for a period and see if you feel like you need it

I've always had the impression that any articles touting the health benefits from alcohol is marketing paid by the lucrative alcohol industry (basically propaganda)

Try r/dryalcoholics you may get more insight and support on your drinking problem there, without necessarily needing to go cold turkey and forever.

r/stopdrinking has been of great help for me. Even if you don't stop completely just lurking over there helps keep it in check. This has been a big struggle for me and I'm only 22.

Thinking the thing they first chose to study in college is what they should stick with through the rest of their lives.

Was such a hard choice at the time when I switched majors. Looking back 10 years it's a tiny decision in life and made a big impact.

I made the jump this january at the age of 27. We'll see how it goes but I'm loving it.

Not traveling. Many people can "travel" later but you won't find yourself sleeping on a mat around a fire, bounded by circling coyotes in the middle of the Jordanian desert, hours away from the nearest road signs that said 90 km to Syria, Saudi Arabia, and/or Iraq with 5 people you don't know and don't speak their language. Times like that only happen in your 20's because you are dumb enough to do it. It is amazing to look back on. I will completely encourage you to do it but I would never do it again.

Dude, what the hell? Lol. Please do share...

I'm 23 and that doesn't sound very appealing....

I would love to hear more about that story

Getting addicted to an opioid

Thank you, was looking for this

Been there, done that, for about two years. It all but destroyed my life.

wordddd

you dont think of the time ... money.... energy... put into the lifestyle when you're high as a kite

all those "good times" ... days turn to months turn to years. there you are, chthonic on the carousel

caught on a ride you can't get off

it will take just as long if not longer on the flipside when you finally have enough and WANT to change

and just when you need it most (willpower, energy, inner strength)

you will be the weakest you've ever been

and probably alone

addiction is a motherfucker

but if there is one thing that will make you question your existence

and do some

soul searching, some real deep, dark soul searching

to root out the cause of the symptom

and find the faint shimmer of light within the engulfing darkness

it is the literal battle of life and death, good and evil

of drug addiction and recovery

Yep. Wasted 4 years. Been sober for almost a year though so that's nice.

Seen family go down that path never understood what goes on in their head to make them think taking opiates is a cool thing to do

Lol. karma for the 2 opium wars that the west used to kill hundreds of millions of Chinese.

Now the shoe is on the other foot.

Yea, young people are ruining their lives and dying but let's relish in their misfortune and that of their loved ones because England had a bullshit foreign policy in the 19th century

You mean opinion?

Smoking. Cigarettes kill.

Also huge waste of money.

Oooh this. They will complain that they are broke but they don't realize that one of the main source for expense is the cigarette...

Absolutely. I'm a cashier and it's just so odd seeing people buy all of these small things and then a pack of cigarettes, and the pack ends up being half of the total bill. It's worse when some of them are younger than me, like 19 years old and already forking over the cash for that stuff.

Surprised this was so far down. Maybe kids don’t smoke anymore. If so, good. Huge waste of time, money and health. Makes you smell bad, makes your teeth rot. There is no upside.

I don’t think smokers realise how disgusting smoking is, I’m very dentally concerned so I won’t ever smoke but everything about it is horrible I’ll never know what entices people to smoke 20 a day

Man, just my luck I'd follow every little bit of advice in this thread, have no fun, and get testicular cancer at 21 anyways. That's motivation enough for me to drink another fireball and play another game of fortnite.

Got that last year at 24. Well good thing we have two. Every situation can benefit you depending on how you process it. My advice is hit the gym as soon as you can! Prove to yourself that you can take care of him. If you want to talk pm me. Greetings from a fellow knight

I'm 26 now, student from Germany.

Here is my tip for people of any age:

Money, if seeked, is a burden - like happiness. Go through all the stuff you own and tidy up your possessions. List every Dollar you spend and all that comes in. If you have a good overview, you can manage your money better. The same with all of your possessions - living rather minimalist and not running after cars and branded clothing is freeing and really helps take weight of your shoulders.

Live is not at all about what you own. Sit down - alone - close your eyes and think of what you REALLY want and need. Write it on a list and there you see what you need to go after. When you checked all the things on that list, you have made it!

Based on the things you said about examining your possessions, is recommend The Japanese Art of Tidying Up by Marie Kondo. (Take it with a grain of salt but there is some insightful wisdom there)

Thanks, I will look it up.

  • Avoid Consumer Debt (this is an easy #1)
  • Not taking education seriously enough, yes go to college, but also pick a good major, a good college, and do the work (study hard); this is an investment that keeps on paying dividends
  • Develop good habits of eating well and workout regularly
  • Don't stop learning: critical thinking skills, financial literacy, learning to play an instrument and any other interests you might have
  • Develop the habit of reading (books) and write

Can I ask why you recommend that people develop the habit of reading books?

I thought which University to go didn't matter?

Depending on your career path of choice or some universities may have a better program for what you want to study which would pay off in the long run.

Well, Harvard, MIT etc have more gravitational pull.

never lend anyone money, everyone is not doing well and could use money, 99.999999% of people will never pay you back

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This mentality bugs me because people seeking loans cling on to it like, 'everyone knows you shouldn't loan money to someone if you're expecting to be paid back'

To be fair, I would never borrow money.

But, yeah. Buyer beware. Why would you loan a friend money? I've never met anyone who had to borrow money that I would expect to be able to pay it back. Barring the <1% of people to whom horrible tragedy occurs that wipe them out, most people who end up needing money do so because they have no idea how to manage it. Thinking that someone who wants to "borrow" money to cover the cost of being stupid is somehow going to figure it all out to to fix their own financial situation and have left over to pay you back is kind of ... how you end up in the situation where you need to borrow money from someone.

So if your friend needs to borrow money just know that your friend is financially stupid and you're making an investment in them with the belief that they have other positive qualities you appreciate and want to keep them around. Otherwise just walk away because if your friend isn't worth a couple hundred bucks, then you may be lying to yourself and them when you call them your friend.

Life is only all about money if you want it to be.

no, just dont do it. the drama is too much to bother with, you must have had cute money lending issues

Well, I didn’t really lend it, but if I had a friend who needed some cash. It was no big deal. What goes around comes around.

Don’t buy friends beer got it

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Relatable. Went to college and got my degree in finance and economics to hit parental expectations .. going back to college in a month to get my teaching credentials.

Go for it, do what makes you happy.

The 3-4 years it will take to study is more than justified.

Also nice choice there, I’d like to teach after doing my PhD in 10+ years!

Honestly, sticking it out will likely end better than getting a degree that isn't marketable.

Yup, agreed.

My cousin went for a useless bachelors degree only to satisfy her parents now she’s unemployed and works part time in a senior residence.

I honestly wish school would prepare us more about life choices and future careers I don’t see many schools trying their best to keep us going.

In addition to your comment about schools, I wish employment functioned like it used to. When my parents were kids, you went into a business that had a HELP WANTED sign, asked for a job, got it, got trained by them, and made enough money to live.

Now, those jobs either pay essentially nothing, or require a degree/certification/years of experience/internship/apprenticeship, which all cost money one doesn't necessarily have.

I completely agree.

I tried to get an apprenticeship in a technical field to see what direction (from a technical standpoint) suits me the most but they wanted someone who already studies in college but I wanted the apprenticeship to see what bachelors degree I want to go for.

It’s pretty fucked these days, I went with what I thought was suiting me and I was right about it but many of my fellow friends done worse and quit college to become something else after thousands of dollars have been wasted.

I did this. Now i have a law degree, yet i cannot think of a more boring profession to work in. On the bright side i am at least able to find a job. My friends who followed their «dreams» are mostly unemployed or working in an unrelated field now.

It’s better to have a job than no job at all.

Also lawyers do well, boring or not.

Neglecting oral hygiene

Making decisions based on what their parents feel is best for them

Making choices that are hard to undo

Tattoos
Piercings
Having Children
Getting into debt

As an old (64) phart, I guarantee that you will change as you get older

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Everyone will notice the hard spot in the middle of your tongue, the dermal punch holes in your ears, or the puckered lobes of your ears when you take out the gauges.

who tf is out here looking at other people's tongues

Not sure if this is a joke comment or not

Depends, if you get a gauge past a certain size, it won't fully close, for example.

Piercings can heal. I've had 7 and only have my ears now. Unless you're really looking, you wouldn't know without me telling you.
I like to think that tattoos are bookmarks to certain points in life. Yes, you will change. But you can look down and see something that takes you back to a certain time when things were better. Or you can see how far you've come from a shitty situation. It's all a matter of perspective.

It's a matter of perspective to you. Unfortunatley your peers, employers, etc. won't look at those tattoos through any other lens than the 'why did you do that?' lens.

I could care less about my peers. I'm happily married and have no one to impress. I make decent money at a company that doesn't care about my tattoos, but even if they did, none of mine are visible. I didn't say you can be carefree about them - I'm not getting Ronald McDonald tattooed on my face or anything - simply that, when done responsibly they're not so bad.

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Take a chance on what you REALLY want to do

oh, man this conflicts with everyone's advice to choose a real career and save as much money for retirement.

I think a good option is combining practicality and passion. Find a career that incorporates your passion, and allows you live comfortably and happily.

The important point is to take a chance. Take a bunch of chances. Never stagnate and always continue moving forward.

Be a bum and hitchhike/ride trains around America. Got it. Gonna call my mom and say that Reddit said it was okay.

"Make sure you take your toothbrush and toothpaste, no son of mine is gonna be a bum with bad teeth."

This is my mom...

I want to wander out into the middle of the forest and build a log cabin and junk.

Instead of doing that, learn how to integrate your dreams into your current life. Learn to do some woodwork, maybe make a desk or bookcase is easy to start with.

I'm already trying to learn woodworking. I usually like to start with rough sawn lumber and dimension it with hand planes (I use only hand tools) as opposed to buying pre-dimensioned lumber. I'd saw my own lumber from logs if I could.

Damn that's my dream. I'm literally 20 right now but I start my first job in 2 weeks time, so in a few months I hope to be spending some time on some of the hobbies and skills I've wanted to gather. I'm also on the "if I could do it myself I would" train so much, so I'm probably going to be spending a good portion of my first paychecks on my own tools and equipment.

Buy some land! I just bought 5 acres in West TX for $4000. $350 down payment and $95/month for 4 years. Only $13/yr in property taxes until I build something on it. I won’t do much with it now but the plan is that in 30 years I’ll be able to build a house. I always wanted to go off into the woods too but the lack of running water is a step too far for me. Oh and in the meantime I’m able to go to my land and camp at any time which is cool. Also I apologize for unsolicited advice but this is the internet I suppose.

That's what I did in my twenties...it didn't turn out too bad. Once I got off the heroin that is.

I currently do it. I was just looking for justification. Luckily I staybaway from heroin due to the amount of people I know who have died on the road from ODing. Crack, on the other hand.

I actually don't see anything wrong with this as long as your finances are straight and you've got marketable skills for when you quit your job

Dont take meth.

Not giving your parents attention. Be with them. Give them your time, your presence and love.

*assuming they are good parents and not abusive assholes; in which case fuck 'em

Solution: Volunteer at an old folk's home. Pick new parents.

I still stay with them and I'm already 31 :(

Excellent. You'll live to cherish this. Don't take their company for granted. Socialize with them, talk to them, help them as needed.

Didn't the 20 year old just get done doing this for like 20 years?

No because s/he needed them. Now they need him/her.

Whoa... not yet. Parents should still be relatively young at that point.

It's about emotional fulfillment.

Uh... yeah...

I'm going to visit my dad who lives a few states away. We really only talk via text, haven't seen him in a year, out of the blue I texted him telling him I should come visit, he sounds so excited. He's about 58 and I think at this point in his life he does a lot of reflecting.

And how old are you?

Nice try mom. Maybe you need to come visit more yourself?

Don't buy into the "everything is rigged" mentality

It's hard, sure. I won't argue it's tough to get ahead, or that some people just seem to be impossibly lucky. That stings, trust me. It sucks sometimes, and of course people will talk about "the boomers" and so on, but I think we're (people in our 20s) actually better off in a lot of ways. There's information everywhere, accessible at your fingers. Tech is not only pretty reliable, it's cheap, and if you want to learn something: all you need to do is go google it.

So don't wallow in self pity, don't give up. Chew gum and kick ass: you can.

edit: you can do it*

Chew gum and kick ass you can - Duke Yoda

I think what discouraged me in my career was a peer that was about 10 years older that me moved very rapidly through management. And she accomplished some cool things, but I think what bothered me was the amount of work she either didn't do or failed her unit. She was constantly trying to get out and take over huge projects, yet her unit constantly never made budget, and got in trouble for health and fire codes. Mean while I see my unit performing better then anyone in the region, lowest food costs, highest sales ect. Guess who was promoted? I got pretty bummed out.

So I took action and I am much happier now.

Don't buy into the "everything is rigged" mentality

Seems like everyone on Reddit fails at this

The loudest voices aren't always right. Gotta remember that.

Oh man that's me. I can't walk away from ANYTHING without feeling like I was cheated or could have gotten a better deal.

Haha don't ever try stock options

I was struggling with this before, this mindset. Thoughts of some patriarchy, ethnical oppression and privilges, and the classical class struggle. Conspiracy theories really. Posts like this brought me out of it to be more in tune with the reality. Its been going well ever since i was exposed to wider and diverse points of view, there are alot of options and tools to utilize

In a sense everything is rigged, in the neoliberal "everything is for sale" sense.

Theres no boogieman, but everything has an economic incentive in the west.

Not wearing ear plugs to concerts and festivals. Once you have tinnitus you're stuck with it for life and it will make your life a living hell if it's severe.

A good pair of plugs costs less than $30, doesn't change the sound quality and are very discreet.

Dont't marry the first person you managed to fuck.

Having kids thinking they are cute and will make someone else happy or bound to you. Go ahead and marry if you want but don't have kids right away. I know this might not be popular advice but I wish I had taken more time to really know myself and have some freedom with that fresh outta college cash flow. And that doesn't mean I don't love my kids now. I just wish maybe I would have had more time for myself earlier in life.

Travel to a foreign country for at least a month. It will change your perspective on life. A week to Cancun doesn’t count.

i just did 10 days in japan and even that changed my perspective on life. it also made me hate living in canada, and our culture fucking sucks.

THIS! A lot of things that operate in Japan would not be possible in a lot of Western countries because people lack respect/discipline.

THIS! A lot of things that operate in Japan would not be possible in a lot of Western countries because people lack respect/discipline.

Assuming they are indestructible.

But I haven’t had a life-altering injury yet, so surely I’m invincible!

/s

I'm 62 and wish I'd been told the following (this is guy oriented but the themes are not gender specific):

  • Experiences are way more important than things. Do something fun; chrome wheels and racing stripes aren't as much fun as you'd think. In fact you want that because clever people design marketing to make you want that. And then you can't go try skydiving 'cause you need to make a car payment - forget that.

  • Eh, nobody's really talking about you, leave alone thinking about you, anyway. Just be who you are.

  • That doesn't mean you're meant to be some weirdo outlandish. Most people are like most people because most people are like most people. You, once you quit worrying about self-definition, will find you're like most people. Yeah sure, you prefer this beer and that color shirt, but in the end you're one of us.

  • They have a great body? The sex is great? Good for you! (See: Experience) When you're 60 none of that will matter, and the spouse who was there for you during the good times and the bad - I mean really there - is worth more than all the oily porn fantasies you've ever had. And don't get married in a hurry. Some women (some men) are good at putting you into that place, then you come to, you're not having sex and you got no money. Watch our for them, they're watching out for you.

  • Go see a dentist, twice a year at that. Do what they say.

  • The sunscreen thing is no joke.

  • Ditch poisonous people, ditch them. Whatever world they're opening the doors toward as long as you put up with their digs and ball busting is a stupid world of false promises and shallow graves.

Hey, listen, this is important: The words you use - especially in referring to yourself - are critical. Critical! And the words you point to other people are the same words that churn your own water. Be a positive force, and develop relationships with people who are also a positive force.

  • Go ahead and plan on growing old. It's kinda' nice, the service in restaurants is really much better, and, it turns out, the party does not go on forever. Take yourself seriously, but don't make yourself serious.

  • Develop a hearty laugh.

A lot of people in their twenties tend to run up massive credit card debt because they don't have a lot of experience with handling money and never think about the idea that they might have to budget to pay that back with interest. Also, don't start thinking that you have decades to put your career dreams into action. If you don't start pursuing them now, you might never realize those dreams and you'll have no job skills when a robot fills your position as a burger flipper.

Financial literacy should be taught in schools.

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Using them responsibly is what gave us a 3.45% locked in APR at our house closing. We were no cards for 15 years, but needed a credit score. BTW, they offered 400K, we purchased the perfect Cottage for $75K. It was the least they would finance.

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Yes, that’s common. We do use 0% as free money though. If the minimum is $25, we pay 3-400 per month. Or pay it off. We just go to our bank and say, this card has lost 0%, what else you have? They always find another, at twice the limit. We have 6 0 balance cards. :/

Just used one for $900 car repair. We like our emergency fund untouched.

Edit. That a $900 repair wasn’t an emergency was good. Insurance covered a small fire. That was a tune up and deductible. We want the card to cover warranty on the purchase from extras we had done.

Yep, you gotta play the game to win. You need to use credit to have credit. I suggest keeping it small and only using the card once or a few times per month for regular purchases like gas.

Oh yes. The highest limit one is 12K at 0% for 18 months. Will I ever use that credit ? Oh hell no. Just because it’s there, doesn’t mean it won’t have to be paid back.

That's good. The higher the limits, the higher your borrowed-to-credit ratio which is one of the more important credit score factors.

Credit Cards are totally worth it if you can practice self control. The points I've gained from using my credit card have paid for thousands of dollars worth of flights for me.

I'm almost 22 and never had a credit card, I've gone through a couple of jobs lately because I'm never what they were hoping for, (not pretty and perky enough for the male customers at a car dealership though they obviously phrased it differently) honestly I'm glad I keep putting off getting a card because I want to be stable first.

My cousin did something i wish i had done. He graduated high school and had been dreaming of becoming an actor. So, he talked with his folks and made a 5 year plan. For 5 years he would bust his ass and pour his heart and soul into this dream, until he either made it work or needed to stop and work on an education/career path instead.

You only have one life. Set aside some time now to work on something you are really and truly passionate about.

It only gets harder through personal demons or circumstances as you get older.

So what happened ?????

He was in the Walking Dead. Got his face melted off by Negan for one thing. I thought that was pretty cool. He said that he practiced screaming in his apartment and had to warn the neighbors that he was working on a role lol.

He is also in a few lifetime type movies. Double Mommy for one. It was a decent flick. I think he still has one more year now. In real life he is a charismatic and kind hearted guy.

Even if he doesn't manage to nab that gig that gives him that break - he still got some really freakin' cool experiences.

By melting his face off, you mean the guy in the chair with the IRON?! Because damn I felt that one.

True that!

Yup. That was Griff, me too. He does a pretty good job on screen.

I see that HBO uses many characters across their different series. So here’s hoping for your cousin lol

Haha :-) yeah, thanks!

He didn't make it BUT THAT WON'T HAPPEN TO YOU

This whole thread is depressing as fuck

But pretty legit information

This thread should be a mandatory summer reading every summer for kids, over and over

Come back to this thread for past two week several times. Im a 25 years old male. This thread is goooood

It sucks that I know all this, but I'm not able to act on it. Really depressing...

Word. But I’ve saved about 5 comments so far. Good stuff! Some of it I needed to hear right now.

If you are a late bloomer, please do not shit where you eat. Tread carefully when dealing with work romances, some things can go well but a lot can and will go wrong.

Go with the flow and do what society wants and not what they want.

Rushing into a marriage because you think it's necessary. It's still somewhat of a cultural norm to get married in your 20's, especially with possible pressure from parents, and seeing that many if your peers may be getting married around this time. I don't think people in their 20's realize just how young they still are and end up rushing huge life decisions because if this.

Well, good thing i got married before my 20's then!

Having multiple partners without using a condom contracting hpv and then that turns into cancer

You don't need to have multiple partners to get it. Over 80% of people have it so there's a high chance you'll contract it even from your first time.

You unfortunately can contract HPV even with using a condom. :/

Doesn’t necessary always turns into cancer.

are you female?

This depends on your personality type, but for many it's a lack of self-confidence. When you're young that's the time to try things out, and see what works, but many are too afraid of failing, or getting into confrontations of their choices. As long as you're a moral person, then I see no problem in taking calculated risks.

  1. taking yourself too seriously
  2. not listening to other people
  3. making excuses and/or being defensive
  4. placing your self-esteem in the eyes of others
  5. working too much
  6. settling
  7. not building a financial plan
  8. thinking you’re old
  9. giving up
  10. getting married ;)

Being bad with money. Decisions made in the 20s about money have longer term ramifications than decisions made in the 50s and 60s, and almost universally anyone who manages their money well in their 20s will live the rest of their lives comfortably, financially speaking.

I know too many people who blew their 20s travelling and doing festivals and stuff and are going to be chained to their desks for the next 30 years because they entered their 30s without assets.

I agree many 20somethings are irresponsible with money but I also think (speak as a 25yo) that spending on experiences now is valuable. There will never be another point in many people’s lives where they will be as untethered as they are in their 20s. So if they can smartly budget to do Bonaroo or Coachella every other year or to go to Europe once or twice, they should. Saving for retirement is important, but what if you don’t live long enough to travel as a 70 year old? And you wasted your 20s saving for a moment that will never come?

Smartly budgeting for a few big trips per year that you can afford is a wonderful idea.

Spending every spare dime on experiences, going into credit card debt to fund your vacations and never saving anything for the future is a horrible mistake.

i put 10% away for retirement. my work matches 3%. i am paying off about 5 grand of credit card debt (work in an oil dependant area, we just had a recession and i lost my job for a long time) and have a car payment for the next 3 years, but i won't get an other car after.

i saved up money to go on a trip to japan, so now i have none left but will start again. am i doing it totally wrong? i feel like i should be doing more lol.

Saving for retirement is important, but what if you don’t live long enough to travel as a 70 year old?

This always comes to mind when I think about saving for retirement, what if I dont live till 65? but I would see saving for retirement as a 'just in case I do'. Saving for retirement earlier is always better because of compound interest.

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If you don't mind my asking, what do you do and where do you live? I'm doing okay money wise, but 70k after two years is pretty nice

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Thanks for the reply!

I know too many people who blew their 20s travelling and doing festivals and stuff

But arent you supposed to have fun when you're young? You only get older. Besides saving for retirement and having an emergency fund what else is there? Thats all I plan on saving for atm.

We all have to strike a balance between stability and enjoyment. This is more about treating your financial future as priority #1 and fun as priority #2. We go to 2 festivals a year, but also contribute to matching on 401k and save a portion of each paycheck toward an eventual down payment. We have friends who live paycheck to paycheck in order to have as much fun as possible, and they suffer for it.

This is true. The best answer is a nuanced and balanced one.

Save some money early to get the best compounding for your old age, and/or to buy a house or save for kids AND budget and spend on some wonderful experiences for now because you'll never be 25 again.

These threads always have both kinds of regret. The 60 year old who wishes she had had a bit more fun in her 20s. And the 60 year old who had too much fun in her 20s and now has insufficient savings for the future or has health problems from a lifetime of poor diet and exercise choices.

Our rule of thumb is: if you want something for a year, find a way to make it happen.

i'm paycheck to paycheck because i spend a lot of money on car stuff, and travelling, but i put 13% of my income away for retirement and have maybe a couple grand of debt that i'm working to pay off. am i doing it right?

“Doing it right” is subjective but it looks like you’re using logical principles to make an effort to balance your particular situation... which is generally the process to go for.

That's good, I'm trying, but I also don't want to live like some people who just save and save and never do anything fun and just sit on their money

Sure you do, but if you spend all your money doing it you're going to have a rough time if you, for example, ever want children, or want to buy a house, or otherwise do things that boring normal people do when they get older. Money is one of those things where when you have some of it, it becomes much easier to get much more of it.

Nothing's more pathetic than the people who lived life large planning on not having kids, then they had a kid in their 30s and the kid's going to start off real fucking shitty because the parents had no money to take care of the kid or help give them a leg up. There's a kid growing up right now in Bali or some other cheap expat place because their parents decided to 'retire' in their late 20s and travel the world as travel bloggers. That kid is going to be pretty heavily disadvantaged because of this.

I don't know if Bali was the best choice. Kids seem to love it there.

If you balance your finances you should be able to have fun when you're young and still save money, like you said an emergency fund (should be enough to live 6 months with no paycheck without going into debt) and 401k/IRA is definitely a fantastic start and puts you miles ahead of most people our age. If you can I would also suggest putting away a few hundred bucks a month for future big expenses, car/house mostly, other than that, go crazy! :P

Nothing wrong with traveling and music festivals in your 20s. Everything wrong if you blow every dollar in your 20s doing them.

If you have your finances in order like you mentioned you can do whatever the hell you want with the rest of your money and never have to worry. Go enjoy the world with it!

How about a downpayment on a house?

Good luck getting assets when you’re already 30k or more in debt at 21-22.

As long as they aren’t going deeper in debt those people at Coachella are probably happier and less stressed than me... also having awesome stories to share later in life.

because they entered their 30s without assets.

having assets actually makes you more chained to the desk. buying a house and having a mortgage means you are stuck in your location unless you can rent it out profitably or sell it.

A house is both an asset and an obligation, but an investment portfolio has no obligations. There's plenty of folks over at the financial independence sub that don't work and are comfortably retired in their mid to late 30s with high asset networth and passive income due to managing their 20s well. They're kind of dicks about it but they're in a better position than most.

due to managing their 20s well

that is all speculative. In order to be FIRE you have to be making a lot of money and deny yourself so many things, things which typically make life worth living and b) if you don't make a lot, you have to be working your ass off in multiple jobs, living in the shittiest arrangement possible.

The goal of everyone isn't to retire early if it means missing out on things now. the friends you have today may not be there tomorrow. the opportunities you have as well. I honestly prefer to pursue a FIRE goal of 50. which is earlier than typical retirement, but not so insane that your 20s and 30s are just consumed by it.

blew their 20s travelling

gtfo

This. I'd want to say I'm pretty good at saving money myself, or atleast not pouring it into unnecessary things. Almost sad to hear conversations from people around me, with rents to pay and food to cook, knowing they live paycheck to paycheck - and tightly at that.

Aren’t we all kinda chained to our desks regardless

Edit - I see what you mean though. Be less reckless w money and be a little less chained?

-Start an acorns account while you're in college. Learn about investments. Learn about investments. Learn about investments.

-if you can't find an s/o, instead of thinking you're uninteresting and that you shouldn't bother, think of skills or talents that you find interesting and make yourself interesting to you.

-socials groups about a common interest are a really good place to start building friends and relationships.

-please don't fucking smoke

-please don't fucking smoke

Please don't touch ANY tobacco. Smoking, dip, whatever. At its best, it's addictive, destroys your lungs/wallet, and smells gross. At its worst, it will kill you.

It also fucking destroys your teeth and you end up looking like all those people in customer service that make you do a double take at their teeth.

Live within your means and don't borrow against the future. That means don't blow your wad on an expensive car/truck when a used beater will do. Don't spend more than 25% of your income on housing. It may be a nice place to crash, but you are spending money on your housing that could go to your future and more balanced life. If you can keep up with the responsibilities of maintaining a home, then buy a home. If not rent. Don't eat like the Jones'. They go out to eat and are too fat anyway. A little hunger never hurt anyone. Just by living within your means you can accumulate wealth.

And of course avoid the poisoned pill: don't get divorced and give away half of what you have worked for. Be sure of whom you marry!

Getting married before living together.

I've heard about this. You have to know the person well before you commit/propose.

I guess it also depends on you and your situation. There were plenty of people decades ago who didn't live together before marriage and they are fine now. Communication is key

Don't have a source, but it's pretty commonly cited that divorce rates are significantly higher with couples that live together before marriage. Probably some correlation to traditional/religious values holding otherwise bad marriages together, but it's at least enough to make you think the above advice doesn't hold weight.

I think most of the relationship advice in here is crap, since especially with relationships, one person's experience is likely to be the exact opposite of someone else's.

I actually read an update to that study, I think it was from like 1996 and that the correlation ended up being married younger than 23 lead to more divorces and in the 90s more people got married that young and therefore the data was skewed.

TLDR: Get married after 23 and you're statistically better off, even if you do/don't live together first.

That's interesting, and makes some sense that age is the variable with the strongest pull on the statistics. Either way, I think this is an example where general population statistics are not very useful for making a personal decision

Agreed. You can use statistics to highlight potential pitfalls others had and make sure you are weighing that advice appropriately, but ultimately only you know what's right for you.

Yeah I was going to say this. The thought of living together before marriage to test it out makes sense and logically it just seems like a good rule of thumb to prevent marriage to someone you can’t live with. But statistically, it actually increases the chance of divorce/ unhappy marriages by quite a lot. There are a few factors but if I remember correctly, it’s largely due to the fact that moving in together makes it a hell of a lot harder to break up. There are leases involved, you likely have a pet ect. So when they see that their SO might not be the right fit for them, they’re a lot more likely to stay anyway eventually resulting in unhealthy/unhappy marriages. Statistically, marriages are most successful and fulfilling if the couple waits until at least engagement to start cohabiting.

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You’re right; you CAN break a lease and you CAN give up a pet, but the point is that things like these seem like really stressful tasks to most people. Logically, it is a lot less of a pain to do one of those things than to go through a divorce. But in reality that’s not how most people look at it when actually in that situation. When people make it harder to break up, there’s simply more motivation to “make it work” even if there are indicators that it’s not a great fit long term.

And divorce shouldn't always be seen as a bad thing. Miserable people who aren't right for one another should get divorced. Some marriages are just a mistake.

Sadly, some people just aren't right for marriage. It's a rather mature relationship that's half business partnership and half ongoing romance. The wedding day is just the pistol firing at the starting line; it's not the splitting of the tape. It doesn't do anything "for" a couple except change their legal status.

The reason I've read is because it gets people into this mentality of "well, I can just leave if I don't like living with them." And by doing so, people subconsciously combine the idea of being able to leave with the marital vow they take. So then when they're married, they still have this mentality that they can just leave and so that makes them more likely to get divorced.

People who move in before marriage are more likely to be one of the two: 1. Break up 2. Get pregnant

I'll wager a guess that if this is true it might have to do with people changing after marriage. That would be MUCH more noticeable after having already lived together rather than when moving in and already expecting things to be unknown or different.

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Of course there are going to be stories like that. Bad stories of the other way. There's this crazy thing where bad things happen in life. The statistics don't support that being less likely for your marriage if you lived together beforehand

actually most studies show the opposite is true because getting married makes big changes to the relationship and if you already live together is drastically changes the staus quo and cause hardships that would not otherwise be there if everything is new.

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You don't know that's the cause any more than he can draw the conclusion the other way. There is a negative correlation between living together and divorce, and while what you're suggesting is a pretty reasonable explanation for at least part of that, there's at least enough to suggest that the notion you need to live together before marriage is bogus

Any reason why? I really doubt that it would change anything between me and my SO if we get married. We have talked a little bit about it since it would make some paperwork easier, but we have been living together for 7 years and have 2 kids now. I doubt a piece of paper would change our relationship that much.

Getting married didn't change my relationship with my wife at all. The only thing that changed is her last name, and what we refer to each other as.

Routine camping trips are fairly similar in scope without the amount of commitment. If you come home and you're still looking forward to seeing them again, it's a good sign.

waht? no way...get outtaaa town

This completely depends on the people involved. Plenty marry before living together and are perfectly happy.

Some cultures and societies don't allow it though. I'm from South Asia and it's much more easier to get an apartment as a gay couple than it is to get as an unmarried heterosexual couple.

Not even close to ready for this but I totally agree. If you are going to spend the rest of your life with this person you should probably give it a trial run first

A former friend just recently married a girl he met online after knowing her for 3 months. He's a fucking idiot and i guarantee its gonna blow up eventually.

Fucking their credit...That shit will stay with you for a long, long time. It may even outlive you.

Become roommate with a friend. Go into business with a friend.

I roomed in college with an elementary school friend. Still friends today. He was my best man, in fact.

Not saying that it can't work. But think of it this way. What is your friendship worth to you?

At one point in my life. I was losing my house to foreclosure. My best friend offered to lend me money. I refused. It wasn't a small sum either. Now i was lucky that even if I lost the house (which I did) I want about to be homeless.

It was just as well I refused. It would have been a waste of money. At the time I didn't know if I would ever be able to pay it back. I would rather have endured financial setback than risk losing my friendship.

That person is still my best friend. And should the day come that they need money. It won't be a loan from me. But a gift.

Points well received. But my anecdotal evidence in the contrary clearly prove your original point wrong!

\s

Lol. I almost lost friendship by rooming with a friend. So I guess my anecdotal experience counters your. Lol

Both of those really depend on the friends involved. I roomed with 2 of my best friends in college. Still best friends. If anything, I think our relationship improved from us living together. But there are some friends that I would never consider living with based on their habits lol.

I can agree more with the business one. Money can make the best of people do the most horrible things.

I second this. I’m not even past 18, but my family decided to rent a house with my friend (best friends since middle school) and her mom together because both of our families are low-income.

Now my friend and I don’t talk even though we live in the same house, and now my parents strongly dislike her family and want to move out.

No matter how strong some of your friendships are, realize that you may be better off as friends than roommates. Would have saved me a lot of emotional pain if we never shared a house.

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23 here and sad. I don't know where to find the time for most of this stuff. I just need to get by.

I’m 19 and sad too :/ Please remember I dont think any less of anyone who hasn’t achieved any of this, I really sympathise with all of you and your troubles!

Let’s try out best together, I think this thread is kind of pitting us all against each other. :)

/r/selfimprovement

Not starting to save for retirement with a 401K as soon as you have a job.

Always at least do the amount to get full company match. Anything less is leaving free money on the table.

What if you're in your 30s and have never had a job that offered retirement benefits?

You have to set up your own 401 K. Money is taken out and saved and you pay a lowered income tax on the money that you did not put into your 401K. There are different amounts you can save, it’s up to you. Start reading up on 401 K. I wish Zi didn’t keep stalling about it.

Falling into bad habits like drugs and alcohol.

Only bad if you make it a habbit.

Becoming a single parent. I don’t regret having my kids, but I did nothing but struggle through my entire 20’s and early thirties. I worked 2-3 jobs at a time to take care of them on my own, with no assistance from anyone or any social programs whatsoever & now on my late thirties, I’m exhausted. I got enough education and experience that’s enabled me to have a well paying job and buy a home on my own, but I live in such a high level of stress due to the fact my kids only have me...if I could do it all over again, I would have learned about birth control, put myself through medical school and maybe today I would have been the doctor I always wanted to be and maybe I would have found my sister’s cancer in time 😭....

The problem is you weren't taught birth control when you're in school. Something to be said about our education.

Dont ruin your credit.

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How was her sexual frustration basically on display?

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Wow yeah I see what you mean

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So inspiring, I'm so glad you are now happy for your life, remember we live for the future, not for the past

Avoid any contact with police or government. No owi\dui, battery non of that shit.

Fuck shit shit fuck! What if you work for them?!?!

Spending too much time either having fun or on your career.

Life is about balance. Find your happiness in between, and don't become consumed with either. That is the key to happiness when you are in your 30s and beyond.

Champagne taste on a Coors Light budget... sometimes you just gotta suck it up and enjoy the taste of the Rockies if that is what you can afford.

/this goes for housing, cars, relationships, whatever.

Have an ass ton of existential anxiety about not being as "far along in life" as other people in their 20s, especially celebrities.

Motherfucker, you're in your 20s. If you live in a fairly supportive country and aren't homeless, you've probably got decent prospects for a long life. You can calm the fuck down. It isn't all gonna be figured out in your 20s.

And if you live in a country with shit prospects and you're homeless, some existential anxiety is probably the least of your pressing concerns.

You're going to do some shit that could be called mistakes in your 20s. It's inevitable. If you're super worried about the big ones, then try to avoid shit that can fuck your shit up for years or decades, such as: Massive financial debt, the big addictions (alcohol, smoking, drugs, unhealthy foods), reckless physical activity without training for risk management (e.g. stuff that can easily result in long-term injury that's difficult, if not impossible, to recover from).

But honestly, there are people who have dealt with that type of shit and made it through to the other side. Unless you're dead, it isn't the end of your world if you fuck up. Shit gets fucked and you have to figure out how to muddle through. You keep muddling through and you try to get something helpful out of the worst shit you have to deal with and with a little luck, you'll be doing pretty well mentally, if nothing else.

And for fuck's sake, you aren't alone. This ain't the hero's journey. You're a part of the human race. We got this far by working together. Don't forget the power of that.

This comment really jumped out at me just now. Thanks for sharing. I'm graduating college in just under two weeks and this is priceless advice

Hey, no problem! Grats on the graduation. :)

Not reading the whole thread before you post the same thing 50 other people have already posted.

LMAO. Its all good though. I'm getting a lot of credit card debt replies.

All of these posts are telling you not what to do. I'm gonna go different. Enjoy yourself. Dont be an idiot getting wasted all the time but have fun. Take trips. Get a job as a server or bartender while in college (you'll make great friends and older people who will give good advice about their mistakes). Go to college or learn a trade. You need a skill that goes beyond bartending or serving. Date around fall in love and have you're heart broken. Get over it. Be rad to other people.

Maybe you'll marry, maybe you won't. Maybe you'll have children, maybe you won't. Maybe you'll divorce at 40, maybe you'll dance the funky chicken on your 75th wedding anniversary...but whatever you do...

TLDR Wear sunscreen.

Not saving, investing or financial planning. Such a huge mistake!

hard to do that without a job

Then find a job

you sound like my mother, who thinks finding a job is as easy as walking into a place and handing over a physical resume

Hard to not find a job if you are looking

hard to get qualified for a job when they expect 3-5 years experience out of college for entry level positions.

Facts. If your job offers 401. Set it up immediately. That's one of the first questions I ask a new hire out of training.

If you are genuinely curious about this I would recommend a book called The Defining Decade by Meg Jay. She details this question in many areas of life including love and career path, and she does so analytically as well as with a few detailed examples.

I forgot why that name rang a bell. She did a TED talk "Why 30 is not the new 20" which was pretty relevant.

Buying a new car.

My wifes car is nearing it's death bed in the next year or so, maybe 2. I don't want to buy new but I'm always worried buying used. Any suggestions.

Buy a 3-4 year old car for about $10,000. Look for something with 30-40,000 miles. It will be reliable and be maintenance free up to about 10 years.

This is actually a really underrated comment

Believing that money and status is the purpose in life. Life is about learning to love unconditionally, when you’re in a loving, peaceful state of mind life just flows beautifully. Learn to make love and kindness your default setting in every situation, no matter what. I promise you that you will be amazed.

Spending all the money they get. Not planning for the future. I think those are some of the bigger ones.

Putting your mental health on the back burner. It will only get worse. Get the help you need early.

Wasting your time thinking that your life will be over and you'll turn ugly and boring the minute you hit 30. I'm 31 and I'm still hot and young and want adventure. I literally feel 23 except less dumb I hope.

I remember seeing a Beyonce interview one time where the host asked if she was sad about being older now that she was 32. Beyonce laughed and shook her head and said "32 is not old!" and the way she said it, I knew she was right.

Basically, 30s are the new 20s where you can form your career and love life. Spend your 20s just learning about yourself, being a better person, saving up cash, and trying new things. Get a degree if you want, but don't beat yourself up if you end up hating the field you chose. It'll be okay.

But I'm so tired

Thinking that you’re still young and you should party while you still can! Time will pass in a flash, get your shit together

Binge drinking every weekend. I wasted my twenties doing this. Other than a handful of fuzzy memories, and a few extra pounds, I gained nothing from it. I don't know specifically what else I should have spent that time and money on, but nearly any other hobby would have been more beneficial.

  • Believing you're a victim of some kind and not taking full control of your life.

  • Start saving and investing your money now. You have an advantage being young.

Having meaningless sex with too many people. It will skew your ability to recognize the right quality of person and relationship that will lead to a deeper sense of trust and companionship. A lot of people meet the "right" people at the "wrong" time in their life. I know that is cliche as hell but always being on the "prowl" or perpetually looking for something that is casual and fun, more than likely will cause you to miss an opportunity to really connect deeply with someone.

I had the opposite problem and don't have a full portfolio for comparisons!

While true, good luck turning western pop-culture 180 degrees.

I did all of these things, and I don't regret anything. Shit happens, get over it.

I got all anxious reading this, thx for kicking me out of a funk

  • Getting addicted to alcohol
  • Getting addicted to drugs
  • Buying too much on credit
  • Taking out student loans to go to a private ‘career college’
  • Getting married for the wrong reason
  • Having a kid when you’re not ready
  • Developing a criminal record
  • Joining a gang
  • Becoming content with a dead end job

Don't look sideways. If you're constantly trying to keep up with the Joneses, you'll never be happy. Find happiness in what you've got and what you are.

All your friends own fancy cars and you're driving a beater? I bet they can't afford the insurance or maintenance. Neighbor own a mansion while you live in a shack? At least you have a roof over your head: not everyone can say that.

If you surround yourself with people who give you shit for who you are or what you have, it's time to find new people to surround yourself with.

No one is gonna read your comments this deep into a reddit thread.

Not with that attitude!

Make sure you move into a house with people you actually like.

I've organised to move in with some people (due to lack of choice really) and it has been the worst years of my life having to be around them.

I don't know that it's a mistake, but be aware that getting a pet is a serious commitment. When you get a cat or dog plan on 20 years; it probably won't live that long but it might.

Really, that is what being a responsible pet owner is about: being prepared to deal with what might happen. It might live to 20 years old. It might be sociopath. It might get cancer. It might get pregnant. It might get lonely while you're at work and vindictively pee on your couch. Read up on pet owner nightmares and go in with your eyes wide open.

Pets aren't stuffed animals- don't adopt one casually.

This is so true! I am 28 years old, been living on my own since 21, LOVE animals and would love a pet SO badly but will not get one until I am absolutely sure that I can accomodate one. My cousin is the same age as me and has had 2 dogs since his early 20s. One of his dogs has serious behavioural and aggresion problems which greatly interfere with his life and trying to find an affordable place to live that will allow 2 dogs has been a nightmare for him. Every now and then I will find myself browsing the animal rescue websites fantasizing about getting one but know that my life circumstance would be cruel to a pet (long hours away from home, not alot of extra money, landlord who says no pets etc). If anything it makes me want to work harder so that I can be in a better place to one day have that pet. My boyfriend teases me and says "holy crap I have never met a person who plans so much over a cat or a dog...just get one" but I REFUSE to bring an animal into an unstable situation (espessially a rescue).

Marrying for the wrong reasons.

Please take my word for this.

Drugs that go up your nose or in your veins should be avoided at all costs

That's a good rule of thumb

Or inhale. Or swallow. Damn, just avoid drugs guys. Trust me. Not worth it

Disagree. Lots of drugs are fun and essentially harmless when used moderately

Not investing in a strong sense of self. Every social circle eventually fades and you have to like who you are when you’re alone.

As in, not doing you. YOU GOTTA DO YOU.

Continuing to be influenced by peer pressure. Stop your high school-learned reaction right now, and grow a spine. Remove yourself from situations where you feel extreme peer pressure to do something you know is stupid, harmful or hurtful to others. Think for your present self, and then think for your future self. As soon as you hear "C'mon man, don't be such a ____" train yourself to do the exact OPPOSITE of what the person pressuring you is trying to achieve.

do : get organized. learn to budget and schedule. do it now and it will be natural when it really matters.

find a hobby. there is nothing worse than realizing at 30 that you could have mastered any number of skills or abilities if only you started younger. make all "free" time an investment in learning something. anything.

be yourself. i wish i knew then that as an adult, nobody (worthwhile) defines you by your clothes, haircut, or media interests. (obviously a general statement, but you get the idea)

don't : marry your high school sweetheart. you will be amazed at how much you think you know yourself is actually what you were taught to think. you know almost nothing about yourself or your needs at 20. don't make any permanent decisions before 28. apply this tip to anything relevant.

rack up debt. bad credit decisions now will literally make life difficult for decades. any fun you borrow now will have to be paid 3fold just when you should be enjoying early adulthood.

be a dick. most everything you need to know about being an adult is simple. don't be a dick. opinions that will follow you forever are being made now. try to make sure those opinions are positive.

Getting a shitty Tattoo. It looks great now, but will your Pickle Rick tattoo really be that cool when you are 40?

Thinking that they have to figure everything out, right now.

If this thread is to be trusted, you do have to figure everything out now.

hahaha Yeah it feels like ‘If you dont have your shit together by the time you’re 25 then you’re a failure at life and you have absolutely no discipline and CANNOT learn any more life lessons’ which is kinda bullshit, we’re all learning at different speeds.

Having kids

Sticking to someone else’s plan for you.

We’re all different and that what makes the world so wonderful so don’t compare yourself to anyone else or anyone else’s expectations of you.

Measure your progress as how far you’ve come rather than against other people.

A ton of people are talking about putting money away and not making out credit cards, but a slightly related thing you should do:

SPEND SOME MONEY ON YOURSELF

Yes, you should be responsible with savings and retirement. But what’s the point of building a great future if you sacrifice the entirety of the present for it? Take a spur of the moment vacation. Or go out for a really nice meal. Or buy that new jacket you think looks really good.

As long as you do so within reason, you’re not ruining anything for your future self. People here sometimes act like spending money is the worst thing, but that’s the whole point of making money. In 50 years, I’d much rather be able to look back on my 20s and remember some truly great times than have a little extra money in my account.

Getting too serious about a relationship that damages your potential and your future. I'm not saying that people don't find their long-term significant other in their early 20's, because that certainly happens. However, I've seen and heard of many people who just had to stay with this certain person, but at the cost of their education, or at the cost of a great entry level job, or at the cost of their passions. Don't sacrifice your future like this. I get where it comes from - when you're in your late teens and early 20's it feels like every relationship is super important, and has potential, and that no one as special will come along. I'm in my late 30's now and I could kick myself for even thinking that way early in my life. I've met so many people as I've ventured into adulthood. Trust me, you will meet many people in your life if you engage with the world. There's no reason to settle too soon.

Tattoos wait 2-4 months if you still want it the go for it

I've known what tattoo I wanted since I was about 16 waited until just before my 21 birthday to get it done, no regrets it's a rose that a late uncle drew for me as a kid. Also you can either draw or get similar temporary tattoos, if you get tired of seeing the same thing after a while you're not ready for a permanent one.

Getting (someone) pregnant.

Even if you think you are ready, wait. There is no rush, you have literally the rest of your life to have a kid, you take care of yourself first so you can take care of them later.

I can't tell you how many people I have seen have a kid before they were ready. And almost all of them thought they were. Young people don't really have a proper perspective on time, everything happens so fast, they're together for a year and suddenly they are sure they are going to be together for eternity.

They have a kid, then a year later they break up. Now one of them is left raising the thing, and the other is making payments for the next eighteen years, both are miserable and the kid is worse for it.

If they had just waited, they could have made sure they were secure beforehand.

A baby is not a relationship bandaid. A baby is not a toy. A baby is not an investment or a milestone or a trophy.

A baby is a human being, and if you bring it into the world without considering what kind of life you are going to be able to provide for it (and I mean, really think about it) then you are a piece of shit.

There is nothing wrong with wanting children. But if you can't put them above yourself and wait to make sure you are stable and secure, then you aren't ready to have them. And you don't deserve the love they will give you.

I would say five years is the standard. If you can be together happily for that long then you are probably stable enough to raise a child together. If you are getting older then the number drops a bit.

Just, please, if you are going to create a life, make sure it is the best life possible. Don't settle for giving them crap just because you are an impatient child, too selfish to see past what you wanted in the moment.

One thing it took me far too long to realise, is how to spot when you are forming a habit.

"I'm really tired, I'll just get a coffee on the way to the station" "I'll just have a cigarette before bed" "It's Friday night - I'll get a couple of beers in" "It's been a rough day, I can't face going for a run tonight"

Don't kid yourself that these are one-offs. The first time you think about changing your routine, ask yourself:

"Do I want to spend another $500 a year on coffee-shop coffee?" "Do I want to spend $200 more on cigarettes, and take the health risks?" "Do I want to drink on my own at home every Friday?" "Do I want to put on 20lbs over the next ten years?"

I wish I'd done that more.

Not enjoying it. Don’t be a complete shit show, but experience life and don’t completely forgo everything just so you can save a bunch of money for when you’re 70 and can’t walk.

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Probably because you were 23.

A bit late but.. Hanging out with the friends who drink all the time... Let me tell you, maybe one or two are true friends. The rest ARE friends, they are just stuck and won't recognize you wanting to better yourself. Cut the bad fruit off the tree.

Slippery slope my friend. I'm about to ask the same question for thirty year olds!

Not recognising a bad relationship, and staying in too long. Feeling that you owe people anything,but dont be an entitled dick ya know?

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My friend in the USAF lives in a three bedroom apartment by himself off base in Okinawa Japan and spends his weekends going about to various video game/retro toy stores. But he's just one step under CO and been in there for over 10 years. Still pretty sweet.

Getting married to someone you're only infatuated with

Getting involved with somone who's already in a relationship. Its not ever worth it, don't build bad habits and just hang out for someone who is actually available. Seriously, its not worth it.

I wish I can pound this into someone's head. My god he always goes for the taken ones especially if he even suspects the relationship is on the low. I think he's obsessed with being the knight in shining armor.

Being sarcastic all the time with no balance. It gradually turns you into a negative person and people will realize that you never improve their lives when you're around. They aren't that happy to see you.

Say some kind words. Complement people. Encourage them. Don't lie to them, but being disingenuous all the time prevents you from getting close to people

Having kids before you and your partner are truly ready.

Around 18 months into our relationship, my SO and I found out that we were expecting. We were inseparable at the time, and decided to have our daughter despite our relationship being fairly new. We had talked about getting married and having children eventually, but my SO had come out of an 8yr marriage that began after high school, so we weren’t trying to rush tying the knot. From my perspective, lacking a ring or vows didn’t change anything; deciding to having a child was just as firm of a commitment to my partner as marriage. My naivety at the time allowed me to believe that my partner was just as committed.

Fast forward four years and my partner has decided that they are no longer romantically in love, and no longer want to be in our relationship. I’m sure that the faults lie more in our relationship and incompatibility, but young children can add a tremendous challenge to relationships that aren’t truly prepared. Don’t end up crying yourself to sleep over the realization that you have to explain to a faultless 4yr old child why they won’t get to see both parents after school every day.

Edit: words

It's always You vs. You, comparing yourself to someone else can lead you down a path not your own.

One of the biggest mistakes a person makes in their 20's is not recognizing the value of time in regards to wealth. By the time this lesson is fully appreciated a person is usually in their 30's or 40's or even later.

What to do?

Go to zillow.

Look up the cheapest houses in your area. Keep visiting and visualizing yourself in one of the cheaper houses. Research the area. Research the property values. Go look at it.

Make it a goal inside of a year or two to buy one of those houses instead of paying rent.

When I say "goal" I mean attack it like a fucking Pit Bull. Don't get married. Don't buy a new car. Buy a fucking house and eliminate your rent.

By the time you're middle aged you will have built some serious wealth instead of paying someone else's mortgage for decades. No matter how bad things get you'll have a roof over your head. It's so liberating to the rest of your life when you aren't a slave to your rent.

Better than nothing relationships. They just drain your energy and waste your time.

Giving up on yourself. Worrying too much about the future and missing out on the stuff that you can do, big or small.

Believing that the 30s are the new 20s. It's not. Dont waste your 20s believing that things will be better in your 30s.

Lol it's all in here and this will get buried but here is my humble submission as an almost 30 year old:

Learn to go easier on yourself. Learn how to adequately gauge what is and isn't your fault, and learn how to deal with the fact that some things aren't personal failures just because they failed. You didn't know what you didn't know.

Spending time with people who are bad for you. Thinking that those people will change over time.

If they aren't great for you now, they never will be.

Having kids too early

Talk to your parents. They won't be there forever. Call them now.

That is, if you have a great relationship with them.

Take it you don't?

Dad divorced mom and now he lives somewhere else with someone else, and my mom is just a whole other deal. It's really complicated, no one in my house really likes my mom. None of my brothers talk with her and they live in the same house but I'm the only one that talks to everyone in the house and it's pretty stressful and annoying at times. So yeah, not a good relationship with my mother. Whenever she's home, there's always this sense of tension that erupts into the house and I hate that feeling so much.

Oh man sorry to hear that. Wish I had anything better to say to you but I really don't.

Study hard, get out of the house, become a millionaire and show them how great you really are.

Appreciate it. Best of luck to you with life :)

I'm 29 so I will give you my mistakes and close friends mistakes as they are all fresh in my mind... also these are not in order.. Letting yourself get into debt (car loans and student loans are fine) but do not carry a fucking balance on a credit card until you are in your late 20's early 30's. No matter how stable or mature you are, you're not. Never stop going to the dentist, your body can bounce back a bit and be fixed but teeth are no fucking joke. If you owe money to something and cant pay it negotiate what you CAN pay, i made the mistake of not paying anything and closing my eyes and pretending it wasnt there for years and im now undoing the damage. I could have just been paying 8 bucks a month to not fuck myself. Having kids this early, i know its hard for women as you get older and some people genuinely want kids at this age but at LEAST wait til your mid to late 20s if you can. The problem i've seen is the partner you have your kid with is probably not long term. I would say theres like a 30% chance you stay with them long term if even that. But the biggggggest problem i've seen with having kids young is it snuffs out your potential. Whether you want to believe it or not you are still growing as a person until your 30s and when you have a kid you have to direct all that energy and focus to them and rightfully so but its not easy to build a career and work on yourself when theres something that takes literally all of your attention.. another big one is cut out bad friends/toxic people. They will literally drag you down. try to surround yourself with people who are more like you and have the same mindset. I've learned when you surround yourself with successful mature people that you all seem to propel eachother upwards. A friend of mine was looking for a new job and they offered her a huge pay cut from what shes making now and i told her not to accept it but negotiate and she thought she would give them a dollar figure that would be acceptable to her (it was still a huge pay cut) i told her not to tell them ANY dollar amount because it was just limit her. So she came back to them saying their offer needed to be more competitive and bam shes making more money now. Because we were friends and I was one of her successful helpful friends i just made her more money. we tend to lookout and encourage eachother when your friends with motivated successful people or even just positive people. Dont get wrapped up in drama ESPECIALLY social media shit. You can have your opinions and feelings but dont pour them out for the world to see, let your close friends and family know how you feel but keep that shit contained it will only end badly when you air your dirty laundry on social media. Take the time to understand personal finance, read articles and subscribe to subreddits about personal finance and things that interest you as well but things that are helpful i find are supremely important. personal finance has been a godsend to me.... and i guess most importantly is dont settle for less it only breeds anger and resentment. Go for what you want and work toward it and if you achieve a goal set the bar higher or set another goal, dont lose steam. I recently got myself in a position i thought it would take me into my 40s to get.. im about 10ish years or more ahead so im setting the bar higher instead of coasting. Idk i babbled and doubt anyone will read it

I wish I had a friend like you in my 20s.

eh im not perfect and have plenty of flaws but the things i pointed out in my post are things i literally see happening over and over to my friends and nobody seems to learn so its frustrating.

  • Get pregnant/get someone pregnant out of wedlock. Chances are you don't really want the kid at that time in your life, and it's going to drastically alter you for the next 18+ years (unless you give the kid up for adoption or abort).

  • Get into serious credit debt.

No one will see this since I'm commenting too late but: Settling for someone who you know isn't right for you because you see all of your friends pairing off. I'm in my 40s now and every single one of my friends who even had the smallest concern about their relationship has or is divorced.. and that shit is expensive

there's a lot of good advice in here about finances and teeth and children, but I'd say that "thinking you know something" is a big one. You're young, inexperienced, arrogant, and generally clueless about how anything in life works. Some grow up earlier than others, but I think every 20something would benefit from humility. I wish I had spent more time listening and experiencing than arrogantly walking around like I knew everything and not taking advantage of every opportunity.

Dating someone or staying in a relationship with someone because it is comfortable despite larger problems

sex with the wrong perosn including but not limited to, marriage and children

Gay porn. [Serious]

I’m screwed then.

But why! :(

Because then the internet will remember your for it.

Seems one must have been really good at it if they're still memorable after all this time.

Or insanely bad

But nobody can call you on it without admitting they watch gay porn...

These are obviously just my opinions and derived from my experience, but if you want to be successful later in life you must invest in your education (or work experience) and debt relief that got you there in your 20s. I truly believe if you invest in yourself in this decade, will pay off for you far greater for the rest of your life. I think many (myself included) when they are young look at their 20s as the time of their life. It's a time where you may be out of higher education and your friends will be beginning jobs. There is a temptation to move to cities, go out as much as possible, and travel as much as possible. There is nothing wrong with any of these endeavors. In fact, each may ultimately result in accomplishing the aforementioned goals. I have noticed however that many of my acquantainces failed to do the "hard thing" during this decade which also resulted in settling for average careers in order to party, travel, move to a city.

I went to medical school at age 22. And while that was a result of effort I put in prior, it was an investment in a potential career that I knew would result in success. At this same time, I also took a scholarship from the US Navy that paid for my entire education. As a result I spent from age 26-31 in the military after completing graduate school and earning my doctorate. During this time, I traveled certainly, but not necessarily with my friends. I got to party, but far less than people I grew up with. I moved to a city for medical school, but lived in the middle of no where for my military service. I spent a lot of this time alone.

At 31, however, I was debt free and a doctor. I never had a credit card bill. I've never owed a bank anything. My first and only debt is my mortgage. I have a career that while I will never be a multi-millionaire, I will always be very successful. Now I know my story doesn't translate exactly for everyone's dream. What does however, is to invest in education for your dream job and pay off whatever debt you can to the best of your ability during your 20s (even if it means having a little less fun). You have the rest of your life to have fun and can more easily do so with a solid educational and economic foundation.

Hope that helps someone.

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I’m just starting my own business now. I’m in my mid thirties. It took me awhile, but I was fortunate in that an old friend was looking to turn a practice over to me and that financially it makes sense for me to take the leap.

I think business experience is always a positive. Just be sure that you are ready. It’s hard to run a business and complete an education. If you are able to do both, then start now. Just be sure that you don’t take on debt, fail, and your education suffers as well. I know this seems like common sense, but all small businesses are risks. But they are also paths to being your own boss which is something everyone wants.

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Medicine. Private cash-only practice.

Not taking your university classes seriously, if you go to school.

Go to class. Even the boring ones.

Source: Learned the hard way; was fortunate to get a second chance at it; now I teach and try to keep my students from making the same mistakes.

This will sound facetious, but the biggest mistake people can make in their 20s is worrying about what mistakes they are making in their 20s. Your 20s are when you should just live your life however you want (within reason). Have fun, fuck some bitches (or dudes), drink too much, relax. Then in your late 20s, early 30s, sort your life out and live like a normal adult.

If you don't do that, you'll have a midlife crises.

Fuck, as a guy who has less than 24 hours before he turns 30, this thread is kinda depressing...

We need a thread for mistakes in our 30’s, 40’s and 50’s!

Mistaking that chronic pressure and stress is a measurement of joy and success.

Nothing bad happens when you hit thirty and you haven't yet smoked up, or a beer so why try to do it when you don't want to.

When you're young, work to learn don't work to earn.

Taking a job in your 20s that earns you good money but doesn't have growth or learning potential wont necessarily be a good job by the time you're 30.

Taking real friends for granted.

Allowing a shallow/fruitless relationship to hold you back from bettering yourself or your career.

Drinking and driving. Never worth the risk of a life.

Having a child you cannot afford with a partner you do not love. This mistake can harm the lives of others as well as leave a lasting impact on your own life. Contraception people. Cum on.

Co-signing on a loan for someone. Don't do it. It doesn't matter who it is. Source: Went 30k into debt when my 'friend' stopped paying her loan I had co-signed on in my 20's and instead of seeking treatment for her breast cancer she let it take her.

Believing that the days will always pass so slowly.

Trust me, they go faster every year and pretty soon the years feel like days used to.

Do SOMETHING. NOW.

  • Not taking your credit seriously.

I strongly suggest starting with a secure credit card through a bank. It will help build good payment habits and limit your spending. Credit is not free money-If you want a credit card fully understand that it means anything you buy on it will be at least, 20% more expensive.

Setup autopay on your bills for the day of the week you get paid. You may not have a high income right now- but it’s so much harder to fix poor credit later than to manage it now. Credit will decide EVERYTHING for you in your adult life. Want a car? credit. Want to rent a place? Credit. Want to buy a home? Credit. Pay everything on time and don’t start store credit cards just for new clothes.

-Save your money for more than one night out with friends. You could blow $300 easy in a weekend going out to dinner, shopping, and drinks or you could buy a plane ticket and gain some perspective of the world.

Finish school. Whatever it is just finish. If you don’t know what you want to do, save some money and go to community college and try a few classes.

Technical schools- people knock on plumbers, electricians and the like. But every building you see has plumbing and electricity and HAVE to pay someone to install and maintain it. They make $$$. Usually the education is 1-2 years and you’re licensed and ready to work. It may not be what you will do the rest of your life but it’s a skill you can bank on.

Broaden your friend circle. Volunteer. Acknowledge someone in a less fortunate position. Engage in the world around you. Don’t be shitty.

Go to a designer brand university and get a generic degree with average grades.

You go $100000 in debt to get a degree everyone has, making you worth 15$ an hour while competing for a small pool of jobs against people with better grades and more experience.

Quitting a job because you're pissed

On the other hand don't stick with a job that you hate, the moment you start waking up and debate if it's worth it is when you start looking for something better.

Living to their 20’s.

Not using proper lifting techniques. In my 20s, I lifted stuff like I was the hulk, just because I could. Now I live with constant back pain. Lift correctly when you’re young - hopefully you’ll have less back pain when you’re older.

Get married

Racking up debt for clothes to “go out” in.

Don't let people (friends, family, lovers, etc) stop you from taking risks and experiencing life. It's very easy to get comfortable in your bubble. Be willing to step outside of it. And don't be afraid to fail. That's how we learn.

Chasing after a relationship instead of your dreams. Happily ever after will find you, you don’t have to go chasing it.

Getting married 🙄

running up that first credit card!

Moving in with friends from high school/college. I lived with one in a two bedroom apartment and then three in an actual four bedroom house.

I text one sparingly, hang out with none, hate them all. The last few months in the house I was miserable and spent more nights than not crying alone ( I'm a sensitive ass bitch, I know ) in my room because one house mate turned the other two against me. I also lost a "friend group" to them because I was one and they were many.

My sister tried to do the single roommate in an apartment and it came to move in day and her "friend" ditched, blocked her everywhere, changed her number and left my sister with a $200 deposit, $800 first month payment and no furniture.

Basically, living together can really change and even ruin friendships.

Getting their girlfriend pregnant.

Getting a degree in history.

The biggest mistake? Letting fear hold you back from what you want to do, and what you can do till you're old enough to discover you won't ever get that time back.

Getting into debt and ruining your credit Having children

People in your 20s take notice!!

Live your life before having kids

I just wanted to add to this: although there are sooo many mistakes we can make when we’re young, it’s NEVER too late to try and make things right. Whether it’s going to school, saving money, making a schedule, changing your goals, or an attitude, or an outlook. You can do it, and I believe in you!

Squandering money if you do have it, going into debt if you don't.

Also don't waste your 20's on a relationship where you argue all the time. Unless you really enjoy arguing, I guess...

Getting married.

Have a kid with someone you cannot stand

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100% agree with you. I'm in my 40's but look much younger because I didn't smoke, drink to excess, and I wore sunscreen. Those good decisions I made in my 20's are paying off for me.

Do not put effort into the lives of those who do not put effort into yours. Don't chase friendships, if someone wants to be around you they will be. You will be better off without them if they aren't.

  • Moving out of your parents' house when you have the option to stay a while and build up savings. There are obviously situations where this doesn't apply: cross-country jobs, shitty parents, financially unstable parents. But if you can live in your childhood bedroom for a year after college and build up savings, it is invaluable. My husband and I both lived with our parents for 2 years after college, and the down payment for our condo was 100% comprised of money we saved during that time (and not during the 3 years in between where we paid rent in an expensive city).
  • Paying exorbitant rent for a super nice apartment that you don't need. You'll have nothing to show for it at the end of the decade when you decide it would be nice to settle down and have a house.
  • Not using condoms. When you're 30 and having precancerous cells scraped off your cervix or struggling to get pregnant because of an STI you had years ago, it will not be worth it. God forbid you get pregnant and the consequences are even bigger.
  • Drinking too much and not exercising. Both are SO BAD for your health. Health problems really start to catch up with you in your later 20s, and when you look back at how you mistreated your body, you will be sad.
  • Not taking advantage of career opportunities. If you have an opportunity to make more money or take on more responsibility or get a higher-profile job, jump at it. You make huge strides in your 20s, and once you are in your 30s and 40s and don't have that momentum, colleagues start to judge you just based on how far you didn't get in your 20s.
  • Following passions that are not practical. If you think you'd like to do something with your life, look into how many jobs are available in that field and how much money you can make doing that. Decide whether you would be content with your passion being a hobby or if it has to be your main source of income. I've seen quite a handful of very talented, passionate people disappointed by following their passion in their career, whether their passion is nonprofit work, book publishing, horticulture, outdoor recreation, music, ceramics, etc. It's difficult to find good jobs and make a comfortable living in jobs that lots of people find interesting because so many people want those jobs and are willing to work for peanuts just to do what they love. Meanwhile, if you really love one of the things I listed above, you can do it during your spare time with all the money you make from your high-paying job in a field that's only moderately interesting to you.
  • Not understanding that you will change as you get older. You may feel now that you will never [want children] [want to live in a house] [want to get married] [care about money] [want to live near your family]. Some of these feelings may stay constant as you get older, but I can pretty much guarantee that not all of them will. And if you are a person who wants all those things already in your early 20s, I can pretty much guarantee that at some point you will start to feel ambivalent about some of those things. I would strongly recommend not making decisions that close off your options in any of these areas. I know people who got divorced in their 20s, and I know people who said they couldn't imagine getting married who are now happily planning their wedding. I know people who pursued passion careers who are now aggressively searching for jobs that pay better or going back to school to start a different career. I know people who said they would never buy property who are now bemoaning the steep cost of a down payment. I know people who talked to me about raising our kids together who now plan not to have children, and I know people who said they'd have one child who are now buying minivans.

Having kids.

Source: me.

Getting stuck with their first love. Everyone should have the opportunity to try new things and meet many different people. Latching onto the first person to show you attention and then sticking with them no matter what can be a huge mistake. Granted, sometimes it works out and can be wonderful, but odds are that your first obsessive crush isn't the ideal person. I can speak from personal experience. I ruined the first decade of my life this way.

My regrets:

  1. Being so worried about "making it" that I didn't appreciate the time I had to get out and do more.

  2. Not pumping way more money into my 401K. I didn't understand the value of tax-free savings or compound interest.x

Now I'm early 40s. I've never been anywhere or done anything (while I'm at it, fuck playing video games at home man). My net worth is far short of where I'd like it to be. And my kids, much as I love them, are a huge time and resource commitment. They, however, are not one of my regrets.

That's a very good question. I have lived with no regrets in my life because I think the mistakes have taught me well in the long run. I would tell you two things, one that I did right and it helped me and one mistake.

The thing that I did right was to read books. I read a lot and it has helped me so much in my life. I also feel that as I have read for the last 15-20 years (I am 34), I am coming to a point where the collective knowledge is really kicking in. It has helped me a lot during job interviews too because I can articulate myself really well. So, if you are not reading in your 20s then I would mark that as a mistake.

The mistake that I made in my 20s was not to stick to my goals for longer than a month or two. I always kept changing my goals, hopping from one goal to another. I still think I was better than someone with no goals but motivated people usually are so energetic that they have a tendency to get excited with new things every day. I would suggest sticking to goals for longer duration. It would be really fruitful for you when you reach your 30s. Of course do not rigidly stick to things that you find useless, but keep working on one or two basic goals apart from office work. This would help you a lot.

If I had stuck to one or two goals, I would have moved mountains in 10 years, that is my only regret in life. I try to stick to some basic goals now :)

Don't have children before you can provide a safe, stable, loving and financially secure environment for them

How can I be sure when I'm 50 that I won't regret not having godlike finger reflexes from smoking weed and playing Xbox all day

Won't matter when you develop arthritis in your fingers and can't play anymore without serious pain.

As a 29 year old that doesn't have a DUI or a drug problem, has money in the bank and no debt, a job and a degree, no kids or divorce, and in shape physically, reading through this thread makes me feel pretty damn good about myself. Now I just need to move out finally, and find a girl...

Move out, you goof!

I'm working on it lol, it's just so expensive :'(

Tell me about it! Plus you’ll have yardwork and housework and you can’t forget about the crying... All the crying... Just kidding, there’s no time for crying.

Yardwork??! I'm definitely not trying to find anywhere with my own yard any time soon, that's almost unthinkable for a millenial in southern california lol

No yardwork. What a concept!

Don't move to a new city without a job just because you're trying to turn over a new leaf and take the next steps as an adult. Yeah, there are a few people who have just dropped everything and successfully started somewhere new, but a 22-year-old with an English degree and no work experience isn't exactly top choice in the NYC job market. 9/10 times you're going to exhaust your savings and have to move home (if you have parents that are willing to let you).

I did this and got incredibly lucky. I'm always very careful to not recommend it to others just because it worked for me. It was risky and something of an existential hail mary that could have gone much less smoothly.

I tried this while I was already on a road trip 4 years ago. The apartment I found turned out to be a housing scam and I almost lost everything (also I think the guy was going to murder me).

I had to move back east. I've been here for 4 years.

Just recently, I was accepted to a university in that same city and I'm ready to do it right this time. I learned a lot from that experience.

Be safe, kiddos.

Damn, I'm really glad you got out of that okay.

I felt like I got scammed because the management of the apartment I arranged from across the country didn't inform me they were having move-in specials. I was so naive and lucky!

I’m really glad that worked out for you! We’re two sides of the same coin, and both alive to tell the story!

Thanks! Congratulations and best wishes for your time at university, that's really exciting.

I disagree with this one. I did this, this past summer and feel so much better off.

That's awesome. I'm just tossing this one out there as a warning that your situation is not something that everyone should expect. I have too many friends who have tried and failed to be able to say that your situation is to be expected.

Either way, if you have seen different results across the board on this, then I advise any reader to take your approach.

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"Your career will never wake up and tell you that it doesn't love you anymore"

Okay that's bullshit though as anybody who has ever been laid off or fired for a bullshit reason can attest to

Got laid off from a job I loved because the company owners mismanaged the business. Pinning your future happiness on a job is likely going to be a poor return on investment

Yeah, I was gonna say, I've gotten that exact message from my career several times.

That particular job might be gone, but you'd still have the experience you'd gained and probably some connections.

...which you can use to go work for a different company that doesn't give a fuck about you.

I mean...are you expecting to find a company that gives a fuck about you? ¯\(ツ)/¯ Or you could start your own business or personal career.

No, but I'm pretty happy with my girlfriend and future wife who I know DOES give a fuck about me. Way to completely and willfully miss my point, though

Should be more like, "Your dreams will never tell you they don't love you anymore buuuut they may say, 'hey um... you're gonna need to talk to someone else about the rent because we've got nothing.'"

She said career, not job. Jobs come and go, a career is a bit more than that.

Dates come and go but a spouse is a bit more than that.

We can do this both ways

Yeah but you can't really find a husband by going on lots of dates it can help but that's not necessarily the way to do it. Working on a career will further your career, it's not luck or fate, it's getting experience and looking for opportunities. Finding a life partner is all of those things plus a whole bunch of luck, after all you have to fall in love and they have to fall for you. I think that's the point, don't focus all of your attention on something that requires something outside of your control, focus on what you can control, the rest will come.

Okay but I'm not up here suggesting people forego a successful career in order to go on dates and find any significant other.

I'm objecting to the original quote that implies that a strong relationship is never worth making sacrifices for, but a career is. I'm STRONGLY objecting to the implication that the best thing that can happen to someone in a relationship in their 20s is to have that relationship end.

I agree with you. I just got a different impression from the quote, that your focus should be on building a career rather than finding a relationship. Not that if you have a relationship or the possibility of one that you ignore it for your career. You have to make sacrifices for both but you have to know which one you sacrifice for at each time.

That's been the only thing I've heard from my career, and I've been working on it since I was 5 years old.

I'm arguably pretty good at it, but man, the way you get treated is bullshit.

A career ain't a job. A doctor laid off is going to shrug and get a new job after taking a couple weeks off. An MBA executive... those guys were fucked in the recession

Career != job

I mean it depends so much on the situation this advice is completely useless.

And your career can literally be eliminated. Like, completely not exist, in 10 years, due to automation or legislation. Or you get hurt on the job. Pretty much anything can be gone just like that- but how likely that is to worry about and how much you can bounce back from it... depends on the specific situation? This is terrible advice.

I think it more or less means that yes your career could be eliminated, but you have more control over what you do and how you do it than how someone feels about you. and to spend more time worrying about things you can't entirely control, is wasted time.

Unless you're a model/professional ballerina/anything age-based. Or if your company is downsizing. Or if you're a coal miner. Then your career may wake up and tell you it wants to see other people.

Unless you're a model/professional ballerina/anything age-based.

That includes Gaga's career. Does anyone take Madonna seriously anymore?

That's a really pessimistic way of looking at things. Who hurt you?

Yes I'm the opposite. Heartbreak destroyed who I am. I do fine career and money wise. Also at hobbies.

Ideally it would be a false dichotomy, but a lot of women feel pressured to reach for less than their potential because of their romantic partner's insecurities/requests/etc. My boyfriend doesn't want me to be anything less than 10000% what I want to be, but I have dated a guy in the past who resented that I was driven and successful.

Why are people down voting this comment? It’s so true!

Who hurt you?

Wow, that's presumptuous.

So is "the best gift that you can get from your lover is a 'HEARTBREAK.'"

Never listen to famous/successful people exclusively, because their path has been warped and they are literally outliers in society. Sure you could talk to the lottery winner about money advice or the heartbroken celebrity about love advice, but the advice you get from them won't do you much good. Best to hear from all sides and make your own decisions on what is best for you.

when you wake up at 65, your career will definitely not love you anymore

you career will never wake up and tell you that it doesn't love you anymore

Hahaha I've seen layoffs and unfair firings happen to so many people. This line is not true atall.

>Some women chose to follow men and some women chose to follow their dreams.

what if I told you that it's possible to have BOTH?

i know people will complain and say "ITS HARD!!!".

yes, accomplishing two things is harder than accomplishing 1 thing

Or put it this way:

If I lose my job, my girlfriend is going to be there and do whatever it takes to comfort me.

If I lose my girlfriend, my job is going to tell me to suck it up and make sure I'm at work on time.

When I told my ex-wife I was struggling after a layoff, she told me I "should try harder"

That was the peak of emotional support I got.

If I lose my job, my girlfriend is going to be there and do whatever it takes to comfort me.

This depends on whether she is virtuous, or materialistic.

No fucking shit.

I didn't say "every woman will always do this". Some people suck. I said "my girlfriend". The woman who I have known for a long time who has been there for me through hard times and vice versa. Who has brought more to my life than any job ever could.

Where the FUCK do you get off questioning my judgement?

Jesus you're an asshole

Yeah, I'm an asshole, not the guy who responded to someone saying something nice about his girlfriend with "yeah but not if she's actually a shitty person" as if you know her better than I do.

Fuck you buddy.

I'm not talking about your girlfriend you stupid fuck, I'm pointing out that not every woman is like that: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/8edllv/serious_what_are_some_of_the_biggest_mistakes/dxutwvm/

Right except that's what I was talking about and you replied to me

Your career absolutely can and does break up with millions of people. Layoffs, injuries, and life circumstances can end your career and aspirations in a second. This advice is a meme. You can lose anything. So invest in your career, invest in romantic partners, invest in friends. Don't follow dramatic, absolute life advice

I think it's more like don't make being in a relationship your life goal. Have other goals to achieve.

Yep, because breaking someone's heart because you think they're holding you back is such great advice.

This is awful advice. Don't listen to this.

Love is bullshit but so are careers. Life is all bad basically.

you career will never wake up and tell you that it doesn't love you anymore

If you're going to anthropomorphize a career, then it can and will definitely do that to you.

What an idiot.

Yes, but your job will never love you back.

Jesus. Took me to 29 yo even figure out how to treat myself. Let alone a partner. Lucky I’m a quick learner. She’s incredible. Saved me really.

That's a very realistic perspective I will admit. I probably wouldn't be where I am today if one of my relationships didn't end the way it did.. it still sucked but it did teach me a lot of things, and put me in a much better place now than I thought I ever would have.

My fiance falling out of love with me was the best thing that could have happened. I'm 25. Relationships, in general, are a huge mistake. I'm so much happier being alone, not having to put up with anyone's bullshit. It's great. I'll never date again. I feel so free and at peace.

After spending the majority of young adulthood in a relationship/married I’ll tell you that there are good and bad things about relationships and being single. Being single means you don’t have the same support system you would in a good relationship. However it also means you never need to consult anyone about any of your life decisions.

Still, there’s something about being in a loving relationship that transcends any single experience I’ve had. I loved my single life after my divorce. For those years I was happy, and adding another person to that only added to that happiness. If you’re unhappy with your single life another person isn’t going to fix that for you long term, and it’s not fair to expect that. I think the character Ron Swanson put it best when he said, “If you don’t believe in love what’s the reason for living?”

Heartbreak happens, and it sucks, but I’m not going to let that one experience caused by a really shitty situation/person strip me of what I might have with someone else. I’ll simply learn from it and deal with it better if it happens again.

But what if you don't ever meet someone like that again?

Then you don’t. I wasn’t looking for love when I found it. I was just working, exercising, and hanging out with friends in my free time. Do social things and talk to people and more than likely you’ll meet someone you can love.

Did you find it doing social things? I know the age old wisdom that love comes when you are not looking for it. Technically I found that experience I am implying in those circumstances. But the thing is after the heartbreak I felt so inadequate I kind of got into alot of things. I retook piano, got into art. Many many things. And now I'm damn good at them. I also work and excercise alot. But the thing is I just don't meet anyone. That's why I'm skeptical. Because things don't just happen by magic, and on paper I have a good combination of things that tend to impress. But still don't meet anyone, much less of the calibre of the woman I cared for. So if one isn't a club kind of person, where does one meet people?

It’s not magic. It only comes when you’re not looking if you are among new people regularly and open to it. I spent years refocusing myself and being social before finding someone I would fall in love with again. Also clubs aren’t good places to meet people for anything more than a hookup.

Do you mind if I ask where you met them? It has also been years in my case, hence the desperation in asking. You are right about the amongst new people regularly. The closest I am amongst new people is the bus or the supermarket. I might be one of the most socially isolated people there are. I paint by myself at home. I play piano by myself at home. I work and speak to no one. I read at home. I watch movies/television on occasion at home. Cook at home. Go to the gym and do my workout without disturbing anyone else. Have even travelled alone so as to practice drawing famous architecture works.

You need to take your activities away from home. Go to cooking classes, play piano in a lounge, talk to people at the gym, maybe play a coed league sport if you’re into that. My girlfriend I met at the gym.

Ok. I will try the music thing, that I see as feasable. Thank you Byizo for your advice.

The reality of the situation is that most people are shit, that has been my experience. I'm better off being alone than to have shitty people in my life and of course that should call in to question my character, right? I am also a shitty person, no decent person would want anything to do with me. I don't get hurt and no one gets hurt by me. Win win situation. It's better this way.

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I'm going to assume you're joking, but for real, don't try crack. It's a shitty drug and it's ruined my life and the lives of many people I used to know.

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I've been clean off crack for one year and 3 days. I tried to get weed last year on 4/20 and my "friends" got me crack instead. 🙄

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I'm fond of weed and hallucinogens, particularly the dissociative kind. There's a special place in my heart for ketamine and DXM. Most of those fucks I used to run with are dead, or locked up. I don't care either way, to be perfectly honest with you.

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It depends. DXM cannot begin to compare to a k-hole, but a light dose of K? I mean, there are similarities, but I feel sub hole doses of K are way calmer than DXM. The head space of DXM is insane. When I was in a bad way on DXM, I usually stayed within the boundaries of high second plateau, to third plateau. I have only hit the fourth on one occasion and it was nuts, but again, not comparable to a hole, though there are some similarities. The k hole is the single most profound drug experience I've ever had. It was absolutely insane, I truly lost connection with reality. On DXM, the psychosis is there, kind of teasing you, but I have never had it take control, not even on the fourth plateau. It was trying me, but I kept my head.

I have only done shrooms once and enjoyed the experience. I want to experiment more with shrooms and LSD, which I have not tried. Eventually, I want to do DMT.

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I used to live in the city, not anymore. I don't even know how to get drugs anymore now that I've lost all of my "friends". It's okay though. I needed a break from all of that. Drugs are not a healthy coping skill and if you use them as a crutch, they will fuck you over in the end. True story.

I read this.

I'm so much happier being alone, not having to put up with anyone's bullshit. It's great.

Then I saw this.

>don't try crack. It's a shitty drug and it's ruined my life and the lives of many people I used to know.

ok, then

Crack is a life ruiner, it ruins people's lives.

I hear it's very moreish.

I feel the exact same way as you!

I would never try to tell anyone what they should think or feel, as we are all different and have different experiences, but I just wanted to mention something. At the risk of sounding condescending, you're -only- 25. I too thought at one point that "relationships in general" were a huge mistake. I too once thought that they only meant putting up with someone's "bullshit." What I realized, eventually, after many failed and tumultuous relationships, is that I was just continually going after what I thought I wanted, rather than what might be good for me, or what I was actually compatible with. Since I realized that and broke the habit of chasing relationships that I felt would somehow legitimize or justify me TO MYSELF (ie: going after people who I thought were better than me, which in turn meant they, too, thought they were better than me) I've been in some extremely positive, rewarding, and totally bullshit-free relationships. Even though they didn't last, they were totally positive experiences, unlike almost ALL relationships prior. Just a thought. If I were you I wouldn't close myself off to meeting someone who is worth being committed to, and in fact makes it easy to do so. :)

Yes, I am 25 and the way I see it, ahead of the game. I could spend the rest of my twenties dating, but why would I want to? Humans are assholes, especially me, and even though I'm -only- 25, I'm too old to put up with someone else's shit. So I'll just be alone. I only want to be with one person, but she thinks I'm mentally unstable and has a boyfriend. No one else could compare to her and no one that great would even give my weird ass a chance anyway, so it's hopeless.

Why do people have to downvote a personal opinion of someone that doesn’t actually hurt anyone at all, isn’t offensive, and is about their own personal lifestyle choice? We will never know.

People can downvote all they want, don't really care. They can go enjoy their shitty relationships and I'll just be over here, basking in my solitude. Relationships are stupid. No one I've dated has made any positive contribution to my life, they just take take take. Well, I've had enough. Most humans are dog shit anyway. I hope North Korea, Russia or whoever the fuck bombs the shit out of us. 👌

I've had this mentality before. My mind was in a very dark place at the time. I'm not completely out of that hole yet, but I'm still climbing and I see the light. There is always hope for better things to come. I hope you find peace within yourself and allow what life has to offer.

It sounds like you've had a rough go of it so I certainly don't begrudge you your bitterness, but I will suggest it is possible that most humans aren't dog shit, just most humans you've had the misfortune of interacting with. Plenty of great people out there.

23 here, and this just happened to me. In my personal experience, it's best to not have a serious relationship in your 20s.

I mean if you have love that's... great. But it will hold you back, seriously. I just had all my freedom returned to me. I've never been happier.

EDIT: Jesus people, you don't have to take my advice. Do whatever you want.

I cannot stress how important it is to not have a serious relationship in your 20s.

I feel like this is kinda wrong.

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I feel woefully behind and inexperienced. I only just recently broke off my first relationship (lasted a little over a year, with most of that being long distance). It was great fun and I loved it at first. Then slowly something changed and I realized I wanted something different that no amount of change or compromise would fix (because it would be too much change to ask of someone).

I definitely learned a lot about myself during the relationship and I don't regret it. But not being in a relationship isn't going to help me figure out what I want in life. Not saying i'm going to relationship hop and have a different bf each month (cus hell, It took until I was 22 years old to even get my first bf), but I'd very much like to meet other people while i'm in my 20s

Is it possible to have 'figured it out' before ever having been in a relationship? I had a crush on someone for years in high school. Haven't seen the person in almost 2 years and the feeling of being in love is gone most of the time. Yet I still think of that person as the only person that I'd wanna be together with for 60+ years.

I know plenty of people who married their first relationship. Maybe you don't know what you are missing. Also people who date around also seem to know that there's other options so they are less likely to stick around. Just from my experience.

Want a pros and cons list?

All I'm gonna say is that if you're in a relationship that makes you feel like your freedom is restricted, that is a fault of YOUR relationship. I hate the whole notion and stigma of how having a so ties you down and that they are the "ball and chain." If you're young and in a serious relationship it should not feel forced. Being in a relationship young is not a mistake. Being in the wrong relationship is

I couldn't agree more. I have been with my husband since we were 15 . I wouldn't recommend that everyone marry their high school sweet heart . But it was definitely right for us.

I agree with you. It doesn't matter what age you, if you're in love then that is what matter. I meet my wife when I was 20, we have been together for 8 years, married nearly 3 and have a beautiful two year old daughter. I wouldn't trade any of it for the world

Being in a relationship young is not a mistake. Being in the wrong relationship is

I think the issue is that it's really difficult to tell what the wrong relationship is when you're in your early 20's. Some people get lucky and find the right person but way more people make a wrong choice and only realize it when it's too late.

You aren't going to figure out what a wrong relationship is until you've been in that wrong relationship. Might seem right to start, then something changes and if it can't work out from there, cut it off.

You're 20 honey. Personally, I don't think you should settle until you get all that life experience. What are the odds you're 20 and have met the person you wanna spend your life with?

I'm just saying I thought I was at that point, and I felt, truly felt those things. Then I did a 180.

Met wife at 16 - Now both 28.

Traveled World - Check, bought house - Check, buy and do what ever like - Check.

Remind me how my freedom has been taken away again. Personal anecdotes never make good rules for the mass.

Then why did you just give me a personal anecdote promoting your relationship?

My point exactly. Keep up.

lol why are you so angry dude?

No anger here. I'll edit in a smiley face to my last comment if it helps.

Well I assume you have some kind of hang-up due to the, you know, the insults.

So great, cool, you have an awesome relationship. You don't have to take my advice. Nobody's forcing you to take my advice. It worked for me, thought I'd share.

^Maybe ^if ^you ^dropped ^out ^of ^the ^relationship ^^you'd ^^be ^^in ^^a ^^^happier ^^^place ^^^where ^^^you ^^^wouldn't ^^^be ^^^fuckin ^^^uncivil.

Lol did you just call the other guy uncivil and proceed to blame his significant other? What a fuckin loser you are

I assume you're not an idiot and you know it's not personal since I know nothing about the man but sure, I'm a loser. You win! Yay! Can we end this comment chain now?

You openly admit that you know nothing about the guy but because you're bitter and lonely you decide that the fact that he is in a happy relationship is the reason he's being "uncivil" to you when you're the only one being uncivil here. Yeah, sure, let's be done.

Having a SO is not supposed to hold you back... They're not your parents, they're your partner in life. You should still be able to do (mostly) whatever you want while still be in a relationship, they're not supposed to hold you back from anything.

People hate hearing that relationships don't last and that relationships can hold you back. It seems to be a theme here that people don't want to hear (I expect some downvotes myself for agreeing with you). PS: I don't think it just a 20's problem, it is a problem throughout your life. I think there are a lucky few who end up with a really great compatible partner, the rest just settle down and then resent their SO. I would rather be alone than be with someone who makes me feel alone.

Agreed, thanks. I'm not stating it's a fact but I figured my advice might help... somebody. When it was given to me it sure helped.

I rather be alone than be with someone who makes me feel alone.

So much this.

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As long as no one's getting hurt, have fun dude, and learn what you want.

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Imagine you spent 10 years hooking up and refusing to settle down with someone. You're now 30 and you missed out on multiple chances at wonderful, fulfilling relationships.

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How old are you, if you don't mind me asking?

What are you seeking to learn past fucking 10 girls.

Hooking up is the fast food of sex. Theres a reason why so many people who hook up and sleep around end up eventually looking for a long term relationship or a marriage partner

Met my wife at 18. We've been together more than 20 years; no regrets. It's just as important to be able to recognize when someone is truly special and fight for them if needed.

I've never heard this but I really like it

Doing a degree without a designated outcome career, i.e Sports Science. Trust me, whatever the career advisor tells you there aren't numerous well paid sports jobs out there.

  • Get married
  • Have children

That doesn't sound like the best advice. If you want to have your own kids, probably best to have them while you're still reasonably young in late 20's or very early 30's.

If youre a man you should prob just wait till youre older since men have a much bigger fertility window compared to women also men can easily pas being in their 30s while in their 40 and if youre rich enough getting a young wife isnt hard.

Having biological kids is one of the most evil acts you can commit. Better to adopt.

Continuing to live their lives to impress their childhood friends.

Ruining your credit. And letting drinking and eating unhealthy become a day to day activity. It will bite you in the ass one day

Make sure to stay in touch with your friends, new and old. It helped me a lot when I was dealing with anxiety in school.

Rack up a bunch of debt, not keep up on your credit rating.

Man, reading this thread is like going down a checklist and just marking everything off.

Learn to listen and empathize with others. In school and in the workplace we are taught to be leaders and tell others what to do and be the best and show ourselves off.

But in real life, friendships, relationships, conversations, teamwork, making others happy --- all revolves around being a great listener and paying attention and giving things 100% of your focus.

The second biggest mistake you can make in your 20s is to marry the wrong person. Biggest mistake is having a kid with that person.

Yeah, but you won’t know till it’s too late...

You MIGHT not know you are marrying the wrong person. But how do you not know you are having a kid with the wrong person? Just ask any friend. If you don't know, believe me, they do!

Yeah, the kid part is obvious, I was responding to the married part.

I have a friend who didn’t commit to his divorce until after 7 years, but thank god they didn’t have a kid. They both knew better, but stuck it out anyway.

yeah, perfect support for my point: Imagine if those two had a kid!!! Connected for life, co-parenting with your worst nightmare.

Yeah, that’s got to be the worst. I’ve seen happily married couples get out through the wringer trying to raise kids together, I can’t fathom doing it with someone you don’t like.

Opting out of a 401k. Even if all you can afford is 1%, do it.

Get married. Sometimes it can work out but most of the time it won't. People change too much through their 20s.

Paying back their (private) student loans.

If you're not well off and have a private student loan don't pay it back. No really, that's the bit of financial advice they don't tell you. Just wait out your state's statute of limitations on private debt. Don't feel bad either. The banks made off like bandits on the public dime after the bailout and they're only continuing their evil habits. May as well get your money's worth. Don't worry about your credit either. If this advice is useful to you then you werent buying a house in 3-5 years after school anyway.

Going to college and doing bad and being in a ton of debt

Staying at a dead end job too long just because it's comfortable or convenient.

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They ran into you though? I'm assuming? Any car accident where you get hit from the back is 100% in your favor yeah? Plus you said they were tail gating

Unless you brake check them

Marrying the wrong person

Not finishing college

Oh my god. If I could meet with my 20 yr old self, I would tell him "SAVE YOUR MONEY YOU STUPID JERK! Some in savings, some for retirement. AND DON'T TOUCH IT, EVER! You want superpowers? Here's one for you; the power of compound interest. Now get moving! I'm old and need...US! to alter the timeline!"

Becoming an alcoholic

Settling because you’re comfortable. This could be in regards to a relationship you know won’t last or a job that doesn’t pay well. A lot of people are afraid of change and will just stick with something because heh are comfortable and when they finally make that change, they wonder why they didn’t years ago.

Not taking care of your teeth.

Going into debt.

Picking a bad spouse/partner.

Credit card debt

I'm 28 so idk what it's like after your 20s yet but I've found it really nice to have a couple of days where I just did nothing. I'm not talking about lying in bed all day. I'm talking about going outside in the grass and just sitting and letting the sunlight hit your face. Take in all the senses and let everything go even if just for a minute. From what I've heard, it becomes harder and harder to find the time to just be.

Making the transition from binge drinker to full-blown alcoholic.

Worrying.

Not starting an HVAC company

Paid for HVAC service recently. This is the correct answer.

Getting married to your highschool sweetheart

Stop smoking cigarettes now. Your 50 year-old self will thank you.

Not listening to advice of people who are past their 20s. We're not telling you what we'd wish we'd done differently for no reason. It's the stuff we wish somebody had told us, or that we had listened to.

Wear. Condoms. Birth control pills my ass.

Honestly, not making enough mistakes. Get out of your house and right into the thick of life. Live passionately and explore your interests. You’ll grow and make mistakes and learn. Don’t play it too safe. It’s ok to fuck up, especially in your 20s

Going to a University right out of high school. Terrible idea. Just move there and get a job if you want to party. Do community college first to figure your shit out.

Not taking charge of their mental health.

Having unprotected sex and conceiving a child

Moving in with a significant other before you're really ready.

Not dating/getting into a relationship

I wish I could describe how fucking horrible is to develop into an adult without any romantic love

I’m 34 now and I regret it tremendously. I wish I had a quarter of the chances I had back then and even so I am afraid the toll of time and depression would be too much

Wear sunscreen.

Seriously, that tan looks dead sexy now, but your face is going to look like a burlap sack before you're 40.

Marrying and having kids with whoever they happen to be dating in their 20s regardless of whether or not it's the right person just because that is what you're 'supposed to do' at that age.

A big mistake I made from High School to College was to letting me be loosely swayed by people, and giving out my friendship to anybody.

Adopt too many animals.

Trying to be in their 20’s still when they are in their 30’s.

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Completely and utterly missed the point

So please explain your point , because you came across as someone is jealous of other people happiness

Move in with someone who is a good friend of yours......for them to not pay the rent, steal your money and things and leave you with lots of debt. Hypothetically

Not focusing on saving for retirement.

Getting married.

Not saying it doesn’t work for some or isn’t a great decision for others, but If those in their 20s knew how much easier it is to get to know yourself first then get married, not the other way around, I think they’d wait.

Getting married. Enough said.... just don’t do it.

Ignoring their children. Your kids want & need attention. Don't plop them in front of the TV or hand them a tablet to shut them up. Talk to them, teach them & interact with them.

Settling down too young. Travel every chance you get before mortgages and kids. Waiting until you’re an empty nester is a long time.

Go to an expensive college and not have the willpower to finish.

ouch... tell us more.

Not much to tell haha. Dropped out once because I was didn't show up to all my classes. Took a year off to "re-adjust" went back and a month in I realized that college wasn't for me and I wish I went to a public college if I was just gonna throw all my money away. I did go back a 3rd time though to get my phlebotomy certification but I actually manage to do that one.

Not making any mistakes at all. I mean, there is some really good advice being given here, but there will never be a better time to take some risks and live it up. I have a number of friends who went to college in our home town and then immediately got married, bought a house, had children, etc, and most of them have admitted to me feeling some regret for not taking time to be young.

Having a kid

Thinking you are not at your bell curve, physically speaking. Your body stops growth hormone production in both genders' 20s. Your body fat is no longer that endless store of energy for progress of your actual body, it is just the storage site for your non-utilized energy, which it no longer taps on for growth. So it all just sits and accumulates, which is why a lot of people gain a bunch of weight in their mid-20s. You will have to actively fight off the storage of body fat if you want to seem attractive in this internet age, if you are over the age of 26, regardless of gender....

Your body uses adipose tissue for energy until you stop growing, at which point you have to alter your diet or lifestyle to maintain your body weight/appearance.

Don't have kids before marriage.

And don't get married in your 20s

Staying in a toxic or abusive relationship. But really, that's any age. I just say so for your 20s because I did and it was a hard ladder to climb up to regain my sense of self and even my career once I ended it.

Living someone else’s version of their life vs their own

Letting a fear of failure steer them into "safe" choices

Serious answer: Having children.

Having children when you can't afford them and when you're not able to raise them right is the worst thing you can do for yourself and your family.

Wrap that shit up, ladies. Don't trust him with your future.

As someone who is 21, this thread is really fucking stressful

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it makes me worred about more stuff. i thought i was doing pretty well, now i know there is a bunch more stuff that i have to look out for, if that makes sense

Yeah.. I think the best thing to do would be to not be super analytical about any of it. Like as long as you have the basics down you're good.

im in college and im looking at grad school, and doing stuff this thread is recommending not to. im looking to buy a vehicle, i dont exercise, i work too much and have little time for other things, etc.

How? Im 21 too. We're just starting our adult lives. Its good to read threads like these.

Thinking they have to live up to where their parents were in their twenties.

  • "We were happily married with two kids at 24 and owned a house."
  • "We could take you kids on vacation four times a year, including renting a condo on the beach for the week of the 4th of July."
  • "Our retirement was started before our we bought our home." - Yeah, pensions don't exist anymore
  • "We could buy new cars every four years."

They were Reaganites, lived off of credit in every form. Now, those pensions are shit, and they've remortgaged who knows how many times. I'm going to have to take care of them.

The best thing to do is realize you're likely going to have to do the same.

Not learning how to date or talk to the people you are attracted to. I am in my 40s now and really wish I would have tried harder to work past my anxiety and figure that shit out. My anxiety only got worse with age and now it is too late for me to ever learn.

Not brushing your God damned teeth.

Source: toothache

If you are bored, hate your job, DO SOMETHING about it. You don't want to waste your youth braindead.

Overeating and overdrinking. That shit will catch up to you.

To many of my relatives who died young (I consider dying before 70 to be dying young) were big drinkers and /or had an unhealthy weight. Most often, both. Suddenly they were shocked, shocked when told they had diabetes or cirrosis.

Cut back and get healthy. The earlier, the better.

Think that you’re done learning.

It never stops. In fact, go learn some new shit that you aren’t even interested in right now.

Knowledge is power. It also makes life more interesting. The more you learn, the more aware of time passage you’ll be.

Don’t just wake up one day and realize you’re 40 and haven’t looked around since you were 20.

Having kids

Credit cards

Getting married.

im very grateful for this thread.

Have children. In this day and age, it's economic suicide.

Biggest mistake is/will be drinking and eating. You will soon find yourself in a dilemma of gaining a lot of weight when your metabolism slows way down. All that beer pong and fast food starts to stick, even when you're in denial!

Winding up with children by accident, significantly derailing they're own lives and potentially giving the children a shit childhood.

This not only impacts a significant portion of your life but that of everyone involved as well

Thinking you have it all figured out. You don't, you never will, and that's ok!

Get married. Wait. Just... Wait.

Getting a woman pregnant.

^^^^ this. Be careful out there guys.

I would say - wasting valuable time staying in unhealthy relationships.

The trouble is - sometimes it takes the wisdom that age & experience brings to recognize that a relationship is unhealthy.

In my 20s, I didn’t know how my life was going to turn out. I was scared and nervous. I felt I had to be perfect, that I couldn’t make a wrong move. I wish I’d have let loose more. Dated more. Taken more chances. Worried less.

Stop wasting your time. Your time on this earth is LIMITED. The days and years will fly by. You'll be old before you know it.

Something I was told was "it's easier to stay in shape rather than to get back into shape"

Getting married. Nearly everyone I know who got married in their 20s was divorced before 30

This turned into an r/personalfinance thread

Get married

Getting into drugs.. but the three things that predict you being into at least the middle class are 1.. graduating h.s...2 not having kids before marriage. 3 get a job

Getting married early. It happened to a number of my friends and a family member. This family member in particular got married at 20, they were only engaged a few weeks, less than a year dating. Now she’s working 2 jobs and has 3 kids.

Having a clinical psychological disorder and not getting treatment for it immediately. Get treatment in your 20's, when you haven't wasted your life depressed or anxious or otherwise suffering.

Taking your partner for granted.

Have kids. Get married. Not save $$.

Not taking care of your body- this is extremely important for men, in particular. In western society a good body makes a huge difference, not just in terms of the sexual component, but also in terms of how you are perceived socially. I can't imagine how shitty it must feel to not have felt the splendor of having a good body/being attractive in your youth. It is something that every man should experience.

Buying stupid things. No one needs fast food every day. Sandwich materials can be acquired for under 10 dollars vs 4-5 per day. Drink water while your at it. Soda is nice but is less good for your kidneys.

I think the biggest mistake is think that in your 20's that you know everything there is to know and your life is set on a course that cannot be changed.

Take the risk. If there's an option for you to study abroad or travel somewhere for relatively cheap that you wanna go, DO IT. you will most likely never go if you don't

Settling down or playing house too soon. You need to go through some wrong relationships to know what is right.

Don't go into debt. Debt is selling your future to buy your present.

Not filing/paying taxes.

Take care of your damned teeth!!

I have a crown appointment later this week. $600+

Might need a root canal. Lots of my other teeth need work too. Use your damned insurance of you have it.

"Excuse me, do you have a second"

"Hey, I don't mean to bother you, but..."

The people asking for $5 at the gas station aren't trying to buy a bus ticket back home. It's for drugs. Alcohol and drugs.

Getting Married. Enjoy your 20s, find out who you are. I got married the day I turned 20. All it caused me was pain and regret.

Getting married to the wrong person.

Wasting time trying to get over your first big break up. Or spending too long trying to get them back because you think they're the one still.

Marriage. At least in the early 20s. Wish I’d have waited till my late 20s or 30s.

Not fully funding your Retirement/Roth... Having a car payment... Marrying before you have figured out who you are...

Measuring yourself against other people’s achievements and expectations. You’re never too old to start fresh with a new career/relationship/life so just live in the moment and enjoy yourself! This is coming from a 30 year old who partied all through my 20s, survived a near fatal illness and am currently back in tertiary training to become a pilot. I wouldn’t have done any of it differently.

Don't get a credit card. Don't get a second credit card because you are close to maxing out your first one. Don't get a loan to cover your credit cards. Don't get store cards. Live within your means. Don't drink excessively. Don't waste time on people who don't want to spend time with you. Don't waste time on people who feel sorry for you. Don't live your life through social media. Live your life and share a part of it with social media. Don't send nudes. EVER. Don't buy a brand new car. Get an old car that works and make heaps of memories in that car and save your money for a home. Save your money. Buy a home. Work on your health. Don't eat junk food. Learn to exercise on your own. Learn to work on your own. Learn to be self sufficient. Learn to take criticism. Don't get angry. Don't react to every comment. Don't reply to everything you hear like you are on social media. You are smart, don't tell everyone about it. Don't brag. Learn to be nice to others. Learn how to do gardening, it's an amazing way to destress. Learn how to fix things. You will save yourself a lot of time and effort in the future. Learn how to sow, you can save yourself money instead of buying new clothes. Before you buy anything, go for a 5 minute walk. Distractions are how we waste our time and money, learn to plan your day. Learn a new skill every month. It does not have to be a big one, just something you can do in a short period of time. Like how to fold your clothes efficiently. Learn how to do your washing. Learn how to iron your clothes, seriously, it stands out in an office. Don't forget to call your family and friends. Don't forget to say please and thank you. Don't let the world tell you how to live your life. Live your life in the way that makes you happy, in the way that in 5, 10, 20 years time when you look back there are no regrets. Don't date a coworker. Don't burn your bridges. If you don't like a job, think about why you don't like a job. If you want to leave, think about how you will survive without that income. Don't rely on government support, it sucks. Spend time looking into your local community, there is so much support you would be amazed. Spend time volunteering. Spend time mentoring someone else. Don't waste your time in front of a screen. Don't follow all the stars in the world. Spend time outside. Spend time with friends. And lastly, don't stress so much. You can't stop time, you can only control how you use it. Use it wisely.

Getting married and/or having kids.

Stop giving a shit. Yesterday. Life is soooooo much easier when you stop fucking overthinking everything. I fucked up so much in my 20s because I was so concerned with getting everything perfect and planning everything. It's more fulfilling to just go with the flow and stop caring so much.

I think the biggest mistake that is made while being 20 something is settling down and staying committed in relationships that are destructive to their growth. I am 24... my on again off again is 38 and we have a son. I don't regret my son but I wish his parents were in a better relationship/ head space when we had him.

Find something that you can do well, that interests you, that has value to other people. And then dive into it. Surround yourself with it, immerse yourself in it, become the best you possibly can be at it.

It doesn't have to be a moneymaking thing, it can be whatever, as long as you are passionate about it and it makes other people's lives better, give yourself permission to fully explore it, and go after it until you are better than you ever thought you could possibly be at it.

Don't be indulgent, seek the honest criticism of others and take it to heart. Really see what you can achieve.

It will reset the barometer of your life to dedicate yourself to something in a way that surprises even you what you're capable of, and you won't have time or energy to do it later once you have responsibilities.

Marry the wrong person

Have a child with the wrong person

Surround yourself with negative influences

Don't ever feel obligated to marriage just because you accidentally had a kid together.

Don't use your newfound credit to buy a vehicle you probably can't afford. You don't really need a brand new vehicle at 25.

If there's something you've been dreaming of doing, somewhere you want to go, this really is the best time. Make it happen.

Thinking they can pull out of a beautiful pussy.

58 years old now. Advice I wish I would have listened to: Do. Not. Marry. Someone. You. Do. Not. KNOW! LHM! I wish I'd have listened. Also: Save money out of every possible paycheck you can. Learn a job skill that you can get good, no, REALLY good at, and even if you don't like it, you'll always have a fallback option. And I mean a trade skill. I actually did follow this advice, I became a pipe welder. X Ray certified. At my age, my eyesight is not the greatest, but I'm still welding and my boss considers me a valuable asset to the company. I'm always there, I'm always on time, and I'm willing to do whatever he needs me to do, so long as it's not illegal or immoral. Yes, another bit of advice. Learn morals. Don't cheat, lie or steal. Be honest. Don't be a sucker, don't hang out with losers. Bad associations spoil useful habits (1Corinthians 15:33). Best advice I've ever received: Read God's Word the Bible Daily.

Great advice all around!

Getting married early. You'll have 50+ years to sit around and watch re-runs on TV together.

Drugs & Alcohol. It's both expensive & can turn into a habit followed by addiction really quick.

Being a corporate ass kisser. You will never be this young & energetic again. Don't let your employer capitalize on that.

Impulsive spending.

I just turned 20 today I'll be writing everything down

Having children.

Yup. I’m 32 and married, we had our first last year and Holy crap this parenting gig is hard!! I could never have done this in my 20’s. I don’t know how young parents do it!!

Having children

I disagree, if you're in a good relationship, having kids in your 20s is perfect. You're already engineered for staying up all night and still going to work in the morning. If you have a kid when you're 25, then at 38 (or earlier) you can leave them at home and go out for the night. When you're in your early 40s you can leave them at home and travel the world.

I had my first kid when I was 41 and my second when I was 43 (just worked out that way). I love 'em to bits, but I'm tired all the time and my wife and I won't be able to head out without them any time soon.

Have kids when you're young.

Try not to get stuck in a relationship that isn’t making you happy.

32 no kids. Just thought it was a terrible idea :)

Getting married too soon.

For the religious: getting married to have sex.

Listening to their parent's opinions on what they should study or do with their lives.

Having children and leasing a vehicle.

Slacking off. Not Finding, then chasing their dream.
I'm 38. I'm stuck in a shit job barely making enough money to cover bills. I have no children, no legacy. I didn't plan for the future, and so I don't have a 401k to fall back on in a few years.
If you read this, PLEASE I'm begging. Find your dream. Find the one thing that you want as much as you want your next breath. Then chase it with the single-mindedness of a starving man.
I'm sure you've heard this from your school advisor or a motivational speaker. If they don't convince you, then let me be an example.
Don't end up like me!.

Getting married.

Getting married, and having children.

I mean this seriously. It's a legal, emotional, financial trap that will follow you the rest of your life. Sometimes it works out well for people. But a large percentage of parents and spouses that I see in the world are more stressed, tight on cash, and emotionally taxed than people who didn't start a family.

• Trying to keep up with the Joneses.

• And — just as bad as creating bad habits: failing to create good ones such as paying yourself first (putting money into savings), taking care of your physical and emotional health, respecting yourself enough to not let people walk all over you... etc.

Buying shit on credit that you don't need.

Don't think your current situation is disposable and that some big event is going to put you over the top to the lifestyle you deserve. It's gonna be a struggle and every stepping stone counts. Burnt bridges come back to haunt you.

Getting married. I'm sure there are tons of exceptions but people change so much in their 20s that the marriage success rate is probably even worse when starting young.

Getting married.

Becoming stagnant and routine.

Getting hooked on drugs.

Getting married too young.

marrying the wrong person

Getting into too much debt

having kids when you aren't ready

Don't go to a for profit college or graduate school.

The exception being, you're in a profession that absolutely requires an advanced degree or you have a paid scholarship. For most professions, a good GPA and an internship will get your foot in the door.

Doing drugs

My oldest brother once sent me this:

"Principles of Adult Behavior

Be patient. No matter what. Don’t badmouth: Assign responsibility, not blame. Say nothing of another you wouldn’t say to him. Never assume the motives of others are, to them, less noble than yours are to you. Expand your sense of the possible. Don’t trouble yourself with matters you truly cannot change. Expect no more of anyone than you can deliver yourself. Tolerate ambiguity. Laugh at yourself frequently. Concern yourself with what is right rather than who is right. Never forget that, no matter how certain, you might be wrong. Give up blood sports. Remember that your life belongs to others as well. Don’t risk it frivolously. Never lie to anyone for any reason. (Lies of omission are sometimes exempt.) Learn the needs of those around you and respect them. Avoid the pursuit of happiness. Seek to define your mission and pursue that. Reduce your use of the first personal pronoun. Praise at least as often as you disparage. Admit your errors freely and soon. Become less suspicious of joy. Understand humility. Remember that love forgives everything. Foster dignity. Live memorably. Love yourself. Endure." ~John Perry Barlow, 2013

Exorbitant weddings

Co-signing for a friend on ANYTHING!! My friend chose not keep making her payments after I moved away and it hit my credit, hard.

It's time for self-devlopment. And one should focus on that.

It's a crucial age which builds the basement of your life. Just like building, if basement is strong, then building will be strong it will be able to withstand all difficulties with ease.

Even, one should focus on health. It's very important! One can't work without health. Ever heard car running without fuel? No right health is similar. Should eat healthy and abstain from drugs , fast food etc . We see news of youngsters falling into victims of drugs. This needs to be avoided at any cost. As it's an age of adolosence , kid needs an strong support of his/her parents. At this age kids go under lots of changes.

This is from my own personal experience! Hope it helps. :)

Buying a house/apartment if you want to be upwardly mobile. It is harder to leave bad/suboptimal situations for new opportunities when you own rather rent. Higher transaction costs. I’ve read some social scientists make this observation.

Committing a felony.

Stop studying.

20s are for learning 30s are for networking 40s are for wealth

Don't waste your time. If your not advancing your not living.

Herpes

Procrastinate or ‘play it safe’ when it comes to career and education choices.

The new job I’m starting I wish I had applied for it about 4 years ago, also I wish I could decide on a subject to study at university.

Making friends into roommates. You’ll learn that’s a good way to lose friends and feel like you’re the one that’s broken. You’ll also learn what narcissism is.

god damn I wish I had know this before I got into my current roommate situation. honestly one of the worst decisions I've ever made

I’m sorry you’re going through this. Friends and roommates do not mix. Those that do are actual decent human beings. But most of the time roommates are petty, vindictive, and greedy. They will fuck you over just to feel better about themselves. Know at the end of the day though that the way they are treating you is because they have no other knowledge of how too. And that way they are treating you, could very well be how the see themselves. I’m the worst piece of shit to walk this earth. I’m inflexible and an asshole. I don’t consider others and I only look after myself. I was told all these things. I was told all these things from a guy who lied to about the length of our lease and gave me less than 30 days to find a place to live. All those things he called me where really traits about himself. Do be discouraged. Just find a way out! Whether your 19 or 109. Some lesson are best learned by doing. Roommates I wish wasn’t one of these.

damn that's horrible that happened to you. my situation is just super annoying. I live in a 1000 square ft apartment with my bf and 2 roommates, who are a couple and 2 really good friends of mine, so the place is pretty small to begin with. I got a cat when we first moved in and then shortly after, my one roommate got a puppy without ever having had a dog before. this almost immediately started problems. basically the dog would chase my cat whenever he saw him and I told them multiple times how much it bothered me and basically begged them to train the dog to behave around my cat. they never seemed to see a problem because the cat always got away. as the dog got bigger the problem just became worse and worse. my last straw was when the dog pretty much attacked my cat and they didnt even disipline the dog. I eventually just gave up asking and started keeping my cat constantly in my room because there was really no way to compromise since this place is so small and I was genuinely concerned that their dog could kill my cat. I'm so hurt by how all of this turned out because it felt like they just didn't give a shit about anything I asked, despite my persistence and very obvious stress over the whole situation. i pretty much just completely avoid them now because I see literally no point in trying to talk to them after this.

Different plot line same story though. The neglect and lack of care or concern for anyone other than them is fucking astounding. Among a list of other things that things that have gone belly up I recommend you talk to someone. Only because this isn’t about what you did or you as a person. Don’t let them fuck your life up. There stupidity is not worth the guilt you may feel.

Yeah I thought about going to see someone but didn't really wanna spend the money. thankfully my bf and I found a new place so we'll be moving out pretty soon. it's just amazing and so sad to me because the one I've been friends with since we were kids and the other I've been friends with since they started dating like 4 years ago so I never expected anything like this ever. I've had so many roommates and never had one serious issue up until now. oh well I guess, 2 months to go.

Simply being related to someone does not make it mandatory that you maintain a relationship with them. Parents, grandparents, whatever can all be absolutely toxic and you do not have to put up with abuse or neglect because ‘they’re faaaaaaamily’ and ‘you only get one mother!’ No. Sharing genetics with someone doesn’t give them a free pass to treat you like shit and deserving of a place in your life. Do not be afraid to walk away from a relationship that is harmful.

This is so true. You can't choose your relatives, but you can dump them if you have to.

Late to the party, but my motto is simple: act your age.

That means: when you’re 18 be dumb, be immature, its ok! Don’t act like you’re 60 and sit and save away like this thread says not making any mistakes. THATS a mistake.

In your 20’s don’t be 18, think a little about the future. Try things, meet people. Learn who you are.

In your 30’s have a 20’s that was lived well enough that you don’t feel the need to want to act like you are in your 20’s still.

You get the idea. Be your age, while being aware that the optimal way to be your age changes over time.

Be unaware of the changes in your body; it doesn't just start and end with puberty. Up until I was 23, I could eat whatever I wanted and not gain a pound. Things changed.. Sort of the same with dental hygiene; never had to worry about it when I was young, now some of my teeth are a mess and I count myself lucky how good the rest held up.

I came to this thread for advice and all I got was nervous.

Same, so much pressure to perform

  1. Taking yourself too seriously. You're 20, you don't know shit. Everything will change in the next 10 years. Take all the chances, have fun, fuck around.
  2. Not taking yourself seriously enough. Your 20s set you up for the future. I grew up poor, got a degree, good job/salary by comparison to what my family had. But I didn't believe that anything more was possible. So I peaked in my 20s and then faded as my peers advanced in their 30s. I'm ok with what I have now. But if you want more, go for it early. Find a mentor. It's harder to catch up later.

Learn how to compliment people. It's a very good habit and easily brightens other peoples days but it's a hard habit to pick up if you're not used to it.

Not contributing to their 401k. It’s free money, kids. All you have to do is reach out and grab it.

Committing to someone when you haven't found your place in the world yet.

"It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable" -- Socrates

This really resonates once you're 40 and cannot ever again be as fit as you could've been. Take care of your health!

Drugs and alcohol. People in their 20s consume both with little regard to their future and at some point in their early 30s or later, they realize that there is a lot of life left to live, unfortunately, the damage they caused in their 20s may make the rest of their life painful, regretful, and resentful. Don't rush into drugs and alcohol, they will always be there, but your health will not, slow down. Protect your health like it's the most precious gift you have.

Not using credit in a smart way. Early 20's I made some mistakes with cards. Took a couple years to build back up. It's not hard to do. But it takes so much longer to build than to lose. Also you underestimate how important your credit score is. No matter how many times people tell you.

Also wear condoms

This. I wish someone had told me just how much my credit score would effect me as an adult. It took years to clean up my bad decisions and now i try to instill that knowledge onto my son.

Not wearing sunscreen.

Make a bucket list and start checking off early. But keep adding on to it. I know it sounds pretty dumb.

I was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer at the age of 25. The first doctor only gave me five years. I'm still here at 33 (almost 34). I will never be able to have kids. But I still got married to the man of my dreams. And he makes sure I'm adding more to my bucket list as he helps me check things off. I don't know how long I will have with him. But the last almost 10 years have been amazing.

I guess what I'm saying is, "Live like you are dying." Be happy, be faithful, be spiritual, be your best self. Never give up on your dreams. And never stop living in the here and now.

Not starting a retirement fund. Even if it's just a little. Compound interest is a wonderful thing.

Settling down with the wrong girl/guy because you feel like you’re obligated to be with them, that you might not find someone else or that you don’t want to start another relationship from scratch.

Enjoy the time you have. Travel a lot and learn new languages. Dare to fail at a thing and start another. Make a lot of love to different persons before binding to "The One". Try out things you never did before. Later in your life, when work and family graps your attention you will look back with a smile and tell yourself "Done that, seen that, been there ...".

Travelling is just great. You will grow up faster, because you have problems to solve. You will get more relaxed around people, because you will meet someone new every single day. You will have more respect for others, because you start to understand and appreciate the way they live their lives. Finally, you will discover what makes you happy. Maybe it's not travelling, but you will spend enough time figuring it out.

Get fat. Getting into shape is hard when you are older.

Thinking that they need to be in a relationship, before they even know themselves. And holding onto toxic friendships. I would much rather be alone and happy with my own company than lonely surrounded by people who just aren’t a piece of you.

Taking friends and people in general for granted.

Having children, full stop.

You're still trying to discover who you are and how you're going to care for yourself. Committing to care for another human being for the rest of your entire life that early on is a grand mistake.

On the other hand, if you have kids in 30s, that's 10 less years your kids can see you.

At least the kids would be in a better place financially and stuff assuming you have an income at that age.

Sure, but nobody's saying you have to have kids.

Yeah I must admit there isn't the pressure to be a parent early that there once was.

I was 27, my wife is older and was 34. Certainly i missed out on experiences that she had and at times I've regretted it a little.

Having said that being a Dad has been great and now he is nearing 20 and at Uni we're doing more travelling so i can make up for those compromises.

It is a massive commitment and I'll admit you don't really know what you are getting in to.

Any unnecessary surgeries and operations. DO NOT go under the knife unless it is 100% necessary!!!

Not caring about your weight. It sounds like nagging but the last thing you want is to be overweight and older.

Yep. I'm 19 and reading this thread makes me realize that I should be doing healthy things starting right now. I have been eating healthy as of late, I just need to start on exercising now. ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

Getting bitches pregnant... Use condoms lads

I'd go further and say they shouldn't be having sex with canines in the first place.

The real LPT is always in the comments

Staying in an abusive relationship. I was raised in a Christian household and felt that I had to eventually marry the guy because we’d had sex.

Do not sign onto joint leases with your friends, period. If you do, be prepared to pay 100% of the rent for the entire leasing period. I had a friend who got evicted and sued for that amount when his roommates never even bothered to pay the first month's rent. I ended up about $3k in the hole because my roommates kept "coming up short" for rent, and somehow never had the money to pay me back. It's a terrible idea, and you will suffer for it.

Stay out of debt!

Felony conviction

Buy a house with someone they aren't married to

I barely turned 20 but I have to honestly say for me right now, is not establishing alot of relationships (girlfriends, friends, group circles). It sucks being at your prime and not being able to enjoy it with anyone else

A mistake of mine was not traveling. I think all young people need to travel in their 20s to expand their horizons.

Traveling through video games via VR is the same right? ...right? xD

Keep your resume and references up to date, as well as proper paper. it makes getting a job 1000% less stressfull.

Not taking enough risk.

Yes, but also realizing some things aren't worth risking.

Save save save your money.... Worry about cars motorcycles and stereos later.... I'm talking to myself here.... Lol

How old are you?

Mid 40s.....

Not moving forward. Drinking a bit too much in your 20s is no big deal. Still being in that phase in your 30s? That becomes a problem. Anywhere pay that is a big problem. Keep your next step in mind and make sure you keep moving forward.

Wasting your time on video games.....

Video games are an important part of my life but when I was in my early twenties, I had a serious addiction. I almost flunked out of college and could have ruined my life. Thankfully, friends and family got together and helped me recover from my terrible addiction. Reddit also got me out of the hole by providing funny and useful content that preoccupied me.

So basically, video games are great in moderation.

Biggest mistake: Not listening to the elders!

Older people have a wealth of knowledge, and are absolutely willing to share it (whether you ask or not). I think a lot of young people tend to think that they know alot more than they do. Believe me, you don't know even a percentage of what you will learn as you grow out of your 20s. Take heed to the advice of the older generations, filter it, and keep it in mind as your progress. You can collect a lot of jewels from people who are more experienced in life. Just like with anything, not every single piece of information is going to apply to your life at the time; however, you can give yourself a real advantage by tucking that information under your cap for later on down the line. Also, you can help others by using the knowledge that you've received from others. Each one, teach one...as they say. That's my advice. I'm in the last year of my 20s and I have received invaluable information from the "old heads" that have saved me a lot of time and wasted effort in my life and career. Education is a life-long, continual process...I have also seen my peers make foolish, avoidable mistakes because they thought they knew everything and were above reproach. No one is too good or too wise to take a lesson from another.

Another big "mistake": Not taking the time to RESPONSIBLY ENJOY YOUR YOUTH. Life hits you hard when you are the only one responsible for yourself. It is especially hard when you become responsible for other people. There's not really a wrong time to have children; you'll be ready when you have to be. However, make sure your ducks are in a row and that you're married or settled in with the right person. The rest is just work.

Thank you for posing this question; it's a really good one!

Taking out loans without really understanding HOW you’re gonna pay it back.

....personal experience.

And I’m in my early mid twenties.

An incredibly insightful book on the topic is "The Defining Decade" by Meg Jay, delves into many common mistakes 20 year olds make, why they make them and what are some good alternatives.

Escorts:

  1. Bareback Services

  2. Cheap Prices

  3. Poor Screening

  4. Using Photos with your real face.

  5. Linking your real social media.

6.Using your personal Phone Number or email.

Were you an escort?

Uh, this is some basic stuff here. If people are breaking these tenets I would feel bad for them. Like a drug dealer, don’t advertise on facebook, idiot, like seriously.

Pregananancy

DO. NOT. DATE. CRAZY. Seriously. It always seems exciting and manageable... until it isn't, and your entire career trajectory and social life implodes.

Underrated comment.

Taking life too seriously.

What is the purpose of life? Is it worth being miserable to attain it?

Thinking you'll be in your 20's forever.

Time gets away from you really fast and you need to have a plan and not just "float" through those years.

Not taking any time to be single. So many people stay in long term relationships through their 20s, settle down, and then have perpetual FOMO. Besides, in my experience most people can't sustain a healthy relationship before they turn 25 anyway.

Having a healthy relationship before 25 is far from impossible.

It's certainly not impossible, but from what I have seen, it doesn't seem to be the norm.

Well its good I'll never have any problems doing that

Can't have relationship problems if you don't have a relationship.

Confusing your job with your identity, the employer doesn't care about you (large corporations), and you WILL be replaced in one second.

Friends, hobbies, travel, all much more important than any career. Your job is just that, no matter how much smoke is blown up your ass.

To listen to her when she says leave it in

drive a rental down a sidewalk.

Living on your own.

Rent: $600/mo.

Electric/heat/AC: $100 (more in winter, less in summer)

Cable/internet: $100 (Verizon)

Cell Phone: $100 (Verizon)

Food: $400/month min.

Cleaning supplies, Toilet paper, etc. $40/month

Laundromat: $20/month

Haircuts: $40/month (every 2 weeks)

Clothes: $40/month (probably new sneakers every 3 months)

If no car, Bus Transport: $100 (NYC is $160)/month

If Car, payment+insurance $450

If Car, gas and maintenance $100 (mostly maintenance like tires, oil)

I am already at $2k/month and I didn't even do entertainment, beer, girlfriend presents, condoms, cigarettes, pot, dry cleaning, or emergencies.

at $2k, that means $500/week goes to break even. To make 500 after tax, you have to make $750/week, or $39,000/year or AT MINIMUM $18.75/hour JUST TO BREAK EVEN.

I think it depends.

Rent: $300/mo.

Electric/heat/AC: $50

Cable/internet: $0 (included in rent)

Cell Phone: $30

Food: $200/month

Cleaning supplies, Toilet paper, etc. $40/month

Laundromat: Laundry is free aside from supplies

Haircuts: $0 I use an electric razor

Clothes: $20 I rarely buy new clothes and I probably buy just 4 pairs of shoes over 2 years.

I walk or use my bike to get around. Spend maybe $30 for the train when I visit my family once a month.

In short I can pretty easily survive on $700, and at $1000 I live comfortably. In my country I could work 50% at minimum wage and get enough to survive, and at 75% I can live comfortably. Of course there are some big expenses from time to time, like a new phone, but those can be covered by my savings and don't occur very often.

Not investing for the future. Not traveling.

So I should save all my money but also spent it traveling. Got it!

I'll travel when I'm older, fuck it.

Paris isn't gonna stop being a shithole after I leave my 20s anyway.

Don't put off kids if you really want them.

I appreciate that a lot of people say your twenties is for having fun and experiencing the world. But if you really want kids, and there's a decent proportion that do, holding off could leave you childless.

I have several friends who really wanted kids but put them off until they had gotten everything "in order" and done all the fun things in their twenties. But biology didn't wait and some are having some real problems trying to get pregnant, and as time passes, that likelihood gets less and less.

In addition, if you're done having your kids by your late 20s, you will have freedom to enjoy your 50s with plenty of disposable income whilst you still have your health.

But I stress, this advice would only be for people who really want a family as a priority of their life plans.

I disagree. If you do that before you are financially in a place to, it would hit you hard. Children are fuckin expensive.Not only would you be making things harder for yourself, but without enough money you'd be making the child's upbringing harder as well. Having a kid before you can handle it is one of the worst mistakes you can make.

do they have something against adoption?

Some people would rather continue their bloodlines than adopt an unrelated kid.

But then this becomes a big hairy debate on the value of bloodlines!

Adoption is not easy. It can easily take 10 years from application to getting the child.

Having kids

Believing the girl when she says she can't have children. Yeah, she was lying.

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As an older and wiser man, fuck yes. But I was young and stupid.

My buddy was dating this girl who said she would never be able to have kids because she gets a lot of uterine cysts. They had twins, got married, and have one more on the way.

Glad to hear his had a happy ending. Mine incvolved marrying her (religious family basically forced us to), having a terrible marriage, getting divorced, and many years of child support payments and weekend custody. Wonderful kid though.

Falling in love with a slut.

Where do you find sluts tho?

Taking out credit cards and getting yourself into debt. Travel and live you life to the fullest, but do it within your means and with your own money.

The number one thing I see is credit cards, people constantly getting credit cards and then diving into debt with them

Ignoring health issues "because you're young". This is the age where all the really serious genetic shit is going to start sneaking in. If you catch it in your 20s your 30s will be so much better.

Does this mean I should be worrying about my hip that hurts all the time? I’ve been ignoring it because sometimes problems like that just go away on their own.

I wouldn't use the word worry exactly, but get a professional opinion and keep it in mind.

Drugs, seriously. Addiction can be a living nightmare that will seriously ruin your life and you'll become a burden on the people around you.

Not taking care of their bodies.

Schedule your own doctors appointments. Make sure to schedule your own dentist appointments. Actually workout. Your metabolism isn't going to be like it was in your teens. If you eat a burger and drink a 6 pack it's going to catch up with you. Learn how to cook so you can make healthy dinners for the week and not waste your money on take out multiple times a week.

Spending too long in a bad relationship for whatever reason

Thinking you have to be doing your dream or exactly what you want, when in truth nobody knows that they want, just chill and see what happens

Not having fun.

I've never seen this word "fun" before... Can you explain it?

Heroin

You probably already know this but it is possible to get a pass on acting stupid when you are in your teens but once you are in your twenties you pay full list price.

Not taking more risks

Seriously. Put yourself out there. Take as many risks as you can. Regroup at age 29, and hunker down. You will never get your 20s back and you shouldn't just enjoy them.

You should make something of yourself.

It's a big world out there. There is plenty of room for your error.

Bad money management.

This is speaking as someone who is in their 20s and constantly worrying about running out of money.

Manage. Your money. Effectively.

It's so freaking important, no matter how much or little you get.

first off, never give up on your dreams. secondly, stay active.... thirdly, don't think for a second that you have everything figured out. Trust me, when you're older your going to get frustrated by all the 20 somethings who think they know everything. And lastly.... don't give up on that love. It's never an easy thing to love unconditionally.... don't get married and then ditch out as soon as the new car smell wears off. The lessons you learn in your 20s make your 30-40s SO MUCH MORE FUN!!!! Good luck. Oh yeah.... always email as if it might be read in a deposition later. Lol....

Car loans longer than 5 years

Credit Card Debt.

Getting preggo

Credit cards. Don’t live beyond your means and think you don’t have to pay for it. Debt sucks, and the interest on CC’s makes it so it’s almost impossible to catch up.

Not saving at least 10% of all income for retirement from the beginning

If you can afford to, travel around. Go to different cultures and see what that's like.

When you get a job and a family it will be 100x harder to do it, and even then, it's not the same kind of travelling.

Racking up out of control debt.

Getting a felony (or any criminal) conviction.

Compiling a bad driving record.

Ignoring the IRS.

Getting married or becoming a parent before age 25 (you may not regret it but parenting is a wrench, and marriage is likely to fail and cost you)

Thinking that it's too late or too difficult to turn their life around.

  1. Staying in relationships longer than they should.
  2. Staying jobs longer than they should.
  3. Staying in cities longer than they should.

Basically, not stopping things the moment you know they aren't working anymore. You only have one life and if someone is not working, you need to change it or get out. All the time spent waiting for it to sort itself is, almost without fail, a complete waste.

Smoking cigarettes and not starting your 401k.

2 many kids with 2 many women

Putting up with being unhappy for long stretches of time, or settling.

I'm not saying you should never stick to anything, but I am saying that you only get to be 25 for one year. Ever. You only get to be 20-something, financially independent, and with disposable income, for most people, for like...a handful of years.

I know people who burned up their 20's living places they didn't really like, working jobs they didn't really like, dating or even marrying people despite obvious red flags, and then they hit their 30s or 40s and realize, yeah, you're never too old to move, switch careers, go back to school, find love again, etc., but you are, by definition, on your 30th birthday, too old to be 20-something again. Once that ship has sailed, it's gone forever.

Seen so many friends put off enjoying their 20s until they weren't in their 20s anymore; spend their best years - which they can never get back - being unhappy, or even just basically okay, but wanting for more. You can see this expression on their faces, hear it in their voice, when they talk about the life they've lead and it sounds like they're trying to convince themselves they're happy because they know there's no going back. It's sad as hell.

Like I say, I'm not saying you need to cut and run the moment you're unhappy with your situation, and I'm not saying you need to go climb Everest or see Paris before you're 24. But I am saying that if you just don't give up, if you thrash around a bit, do some work, spend just a few hours investigating possibilities, looking for resources, etc., there's probably a path to a happier life that is within your comfort zone. Most people, though, it seems like, just kinda give up. They tell themselves they're 'saving up', or 'waiting for the right opportunity' or something, but they're not really trying, like expending effort, to get to a better place, and so they never will. They just tell themselves otherwise so they can get to sleep at night.

Don't do that to yourself, is all. Don't give up. Don't be apathetic to an unsatisfactory life when you're in your 20s, or you'll be living that same shit for decades.

Buzzfeed has a lot to say about this

Pick a career goal, and study hard for it. Going out and partying is overrated. Having a career you enjoy, and doing well financially at it, is worth working hard for, and sacrificing partying for. Nothing's worse that having a job you hate, and being broke all the time. Chances are that'll be your life if you don't study hard and master something in life.

Get married to someone because you mistake lust for love.

Not starting / having a 401k (or another form of retirement savings)

What a motivational thread this will be for all the suicidal youths. To be honest, I don't know how anyone reads this comes away without this a couple of beers and a belt isn't a decent option.

Patience.

Letting other people tell you show to live your life.

You will be dead in 50 years. Who gives a shit? Enjoy yourself :)

  1. Thinking it’s still early. That you can invest later. The money you invest early, even if the amount is small, will have a bigger impact in the long run.

Fucking your credit, it takes years to repair and will cost you a lot in the long run.

Not open a 401k.

Not taking their credit score seriously.

I wish I had taken the consequences of my financial irresponsibility more seriously in my 20's, as I'm paying for it now in my 30's.

Pay every bill on time every time. If you have something happen where you cannot afford something and need to miss a payment; call them THEY WILL WORK WITH YOU!

Also, along these lines, DO NOT SKIP OUT ON LEASES.

In case it's not entirely clear, I was a goddamn idiot in my 20's.

Heroin

Not voting. The under 30 crowd is an immense voting block that is, sadly, not voting. Don't like where the country is going? Vote. Like where the country is going? Vote. Winners of elections now will impact the rest of your lives.

recreational opiates

Drugs.

Don't get hooked, it's a terrible time.

Getting involved in some kind of multi-level marketing scheme. There are a few that sell legitimate products, but even there you can find equivalent quality for cheaper just about anywhere.

We got into Amway through the parents of one of my wife's first grade kids. You have to advance by selling out your friends and acquaintances, and once you get through all those and haven't gotten anywhere, they will discard you and move on to someone else.

Not to mention all the weirdly pseudo religious overtones from people at the top. They're not cults, but they definitely feel cultish.

Let's see... from my own life experience... not going to college, marrying a guy who I loved but he just got out of rehab for heroin addiction and was in legal trouble (but silly me not understanding addiction back then, I thought he went to rehab so he's fixed), having two kids by said loser, moving him in and out of my moms, not leaving him when he was abusive or stealing from me and my family, allowing myself to become a heroin addict...

I just turned 30, I'm a very happy 4 years sober, divorced single mom of two. I wouldn't change my kids for the world but I do wish I'd gotten a divorce sooner!

For the love of all that's holy, start a 401k or equivalent as soon as possible. And don't get trapped into thinking you cannot afford to do it, you CAN. Pay yourself first!

Not having a long term plan or time frame - fresh out of high school I didn't really know what I wanted to do, so rather then waste my time/money on college, I went straight into the work force and told myself, "I have time to figure out what I wanna do with my life/career".

That time flies by fast - it wasn't until the age ~27 that I realized I needed to come up with a more long term solution/plan. Now I'm 33 and still crawling my way up the ladder.

Improper budgeting.

I should have saved more adequately while I was under my parents insurance.

Credit card debt

Maybe disagrees with a lot of other posts but I would say being afraid to take risks or live life. Everyone fails sometimes and some opportunities only come around once.

Fucking up your credit

Source: me

Having a baby. We waited until our 30's, and I am soooo glad we did. We got to travel the world and do whatever we liked, with nothing but the future ahead of us.

Credit cards being the only way to establish credit.

Scrolling through
"Good to know I didn't fuck up too badly."

Either dropping out of school, or staying in school. Depends.

Ruining your credit and buying a house with a mortgage more than 40% of your take home and being house poor.

Not paying attention to your credit. Not taking care of your body. Getting a DUI or criminal charges. These 3 things will screw you and have repercussions for the REST of your life that you don’t even realize.

Not put the max into their 401k if they have a job that allows this. Time is on your side.

This has the additional benefit of being a write off on your taxes in the US

Waste their time on relationships that aren't going anywhere.

Not knowing basic first aid and cpr

Red Cross app on iOS and Android is a convenience to make use of in this day and age

How the feck is having unprotected sex with a non long term partner not number one comment?

Idk, STDS are a thing not to be fucked with.

Money and health arent the biggest mistakes like everyome is saying. Mistakes sure but so common its nothing to stress over. In your twenties just avoid unwanted pregnancies, opiates and impaired driving. Try all the other things and treat every experience as a lesson. You can work hard and retire in your 50s or 60s but what you'll want most is to be confidently immature in your twenties.

Not understanding the basics around financials and saving I.e loans, debt, interest on that, tax, etc. Also understanding what is a good investment vs what will depreciate quickly e.g better to buy and pay off a loan for property rather than buy and pay off a car... return on investment is much better with property which is likely to appreciate over time vs cat which depreciates as soon as you drive it off the showroom floor.

Smoke weed everyday, get drunk everyday and spend every penny you have.

Careful with social media addiction it may not seem harmless but once you’re hooked you will waste years of your life sitting in front of a screen scrolling down a never ending rabbit hole. Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter, YouTube even Reddit these apps are funded by millions of dollars and designed keep you hooked on them as much as possible, to burn your precious time away. They are spring loaded traps waiting for you to step on. Each notification is like a piece of bait being thrown in the water waiting to suck you in to wasting years of your life. Resist them. Delete them. Free yourself.

YES! I agree with everything you just said! Where can i subscribe to see more of your content?!

Taking care of your health. Exercise and eat well!

I see a lot of posts here talking about money, debt, relationships, kids etc. Truth is, you can’t have anything without having your health.

Treat your body well and mind will follow.

Not saying that you gotta get a 6 pack or not go slightly overweight, just find a nice balance and make sure that you can run, you don’t get influx etc. That’s all life is about: health.

Honestly? Breaking the law. You’ll pay for it for years/decades to come.

Stress about hitting certain milestones in life dictated by popular media. Graduated by 23, married by 25, retired by 32, circling the world in a 100ft yacht for the rest of your life (I don’t know shit about yachts). Not everyone has the same path in life and life happens. My therapist said “you’re going to be 40 anyway, might as well be working on what you want to be” when a friend of mine dropped out of pharmacy school cuz she’d be 40 when she finally got to practice. A lot of nurses I’ve talked to went to nursing school in their 30’s and were grateful for it. They already had families and small children, but you do what you have to whenever you get the opportunity to and sometimes “now” is better than waiting until you’re ready. My father got his Master’s in his 60’s after he retired the first time. Now he’s working on his PhD in his 70’s. Why? Cuz why not! He loves learning and education. He loves to work. Guy I worked with was in his 60’s, retired from the oil fields and went back to become a tech at a mental hospital, cuz that’s what he wanted to do. He said his paychecks were as much as he paid in taxes a month, but he’s happy.

Getting married.

Working too much.

Thinking you're an adult now, so you go nuts doing whatever you want. The closer you get to thirty, the more the impending doom of "OMG WHAT HAVE I DONE and WHY DIDN'T I DO MORE? sets in...

Not maxing out your retirement accounts and investing extra in taxable investment accounts.

The difference between starting investing at 20 and 30 is ridiculous when it comes to what age you can retire. Compounding growth is beautiful, and calculating how much longer my girlfriend is going to work than me because she's been irresponsible with her money is really depressing...

Giving up on achieving a fulfilling career just because you have to settle for whatever pays the bills after going through the college grad job search. Allow me to bold this next part for much needed emphasis.

Learning does not have to stop after you're done with school. The internet can be used to add to your skill set and experience so you can get the career that makes you happy.

Here's a few resources, some content being free and some coming with a charge. EdX, Khan Academy, Coursera, and Udacity. Good luck!

1) Often they will replace family time with friend time... until it’s too late and someone who used to be a close family tie is dead. That’s when regret sets in. Hold your loved ones as dear, and make diligent efforts to keep the ties tight.

2) They fail to keep learning new things. Study often - Study new things - Study diverse things. Maybe not in a formal class; maybe just a new book. Seek wise counsel - Seek new stimuli - Seek improvements. You’ll be surprised at the opportunities and adventures this will open for you.

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Go to the Dentist. It’s not too late.

Don't get a credit card. Don't confuse sex with love, no matter how great the sex is. Exercise to some degree. Learn to say no and mean it. If you do drugs, respect the drug and remember it is a bandaid not a cure for anything. Remember that no one can do it all alone, that's what family and friends are for.

Not taking care of your teeth.

Going to an expensive for-profit college and not getting a job in that field.

Not picking a career

Being passive and not proactive enough. Don't wait for others around you to start doing things before you give yourself permission. Do it first

Taking your parents for granted. You will definitely miss spending time with them when they are gone.

Wasting their life on things that are not part of their life. (Obsessing over other people's Facebook, FOMO-ing all day, etc...)

Thinking it's too late to fix their mistakes.

Take care of your body. Everyone highlighted exercise, so I'll add "you can hurt yourself for life, or for a very long time, doing stupid stuff in your 20s." It can be reasonably innocuous to you, or something you see others do and don't adequately prepare for. Funny how some injuries never really heal.

That doesn't resonate with people in their 20s. To them, injuries are the thing that puts you out for a few weeks, then you're 100% OK afterwards.

What if it never fully healed up? What if it was sore every day? Forever?

That's what injuries can be like once you get into your late 20s. Don't learn the hard way.

Source: Me.

Having a child is my best guess

Drugs. Hard drugs specifically. I'm 34 and feel like I'm middle aged or older. I raged in my twenties and had a blast but I would have gone way softer had I known the horrors that drug use can bring. Not anti drug. Just pro moderation and research of the substance your ingesting

Not being proactive at work.

Establishing proactive habits in your younger years makes you a better candidate for higher positions in the future.

Also, using money poorly. I was very lucky to inherit a huge chunk of cash. If i had just fucked around it would all be gone now.

Instead i put it into my business and have quadrupled the inheritance

Join the military

Investing too much of your time on the wrong things. Going the easy route through life and not taking the hard path. In my twenties I had plenty of time and energy to do stuff but I wasted it on playing video games and getting drunk all the time. I could have used that time wisely to better myself and get ahead. Now I am in my mid 30's with no real career path bouncing from office job to office job hoping I find something that I am happy with.

I grew up in illinois, and I moved to florida for work after graduating from college. I found a great circle of friends and a fantastic job there. I still visited home frequently.

My dad got sick during my time in Florida, but he got better. Still, being an only child, i felt guilty being far away and not being able to help my parents out as they aged. After 5 years in Florida, I decided to move back to Illinois. Now instead of a 2 hour plane ride away, I'm a 45 minute car ride away.

I had to basically start all over at the age of 28. Didn't have any friends up here anymore, and finding a job proved to be challenging. 7 years on, I've got a good job, but Only recently have I been able to equal my pay in Florida and that money doesn't go as far up here as down there. I still have few friends.

I feel like my duties as an only son are easier to fulfil from my current location, but I set myself back quite a bit. Had I stayed in Florida, I would likely have been married, maybe with kids.

There's a lot of hypotheticals here, so I suppose I'll get to the point. The point is to live your life on your terms. Be there for family when you can, but you also need to look out for your own needs be it a job, social life, or general happiness.

Squander their time. You're still young if you're in your 20s - NOW is the best time to take risks and put yourself out there. Ideas have become the newest commodity and they're free to create. Make the lives of other people better; you do not have to reinvent the wheel, make it on the top of a hit album, or be featured on social media to harness that "Go!" energy. Set small, pragmatic goals and tackle them with razor focus. When your habits change you will that your entire life will also change

developing good habits for life. Because keeping even a few bad habits isn't good. Consistently go to the gym, do stuff moderately , read/learn something daily will set you up for long term success and it helps your routine become effortless

Focusing too much on career, education, etc when you're only young once

Yup! You're only in your 20s once!

As long as you have a job that pays that bills, and enough leftover for fun, you should be enjoying your youth. People are living longer, WTF would you want to be a dad/career oreinted guy at 20 when youve got 50,6070+ years ahead. Jus tdont make stupid mistakes that cant be fix and enjoy tbqh

Think they need to have their career figured out. It's okay to put off college until you figure out what makes you happy and money at the same time.

Fixating on a crush.

Thinking: I was ignorant as a teenager, but I’ve figured it out now.

Your mom and dad are probably still right.

That's why I'm a republican

Thinking life in college will be similar to adult life

Corollary: thinking your college/University or your grades matter after you get your first job. Seriously, once you're in the workforce very few people care if you went to Harvard versus Whatsamatta U. They only care about what you have accomplished and what skills you bring to the job.

Getting addicted to gambling.

Spending all your time on Reddit.

Drinking and partying 24/7

  1. NOT realistically pondering what I want in life and choosing a career major.

Now I’m 33... nothing to show for it.

Frivolous spending, and racking up debt. If you can't pay cash for something that's not a car or house, don't buy it. And likewise, if you can pay cash for a car, do it instead of leasing/getting a car note.

Not practicing safe sex. There are worst things than getting pregnant, like an incurable STD.

Getting completely shitfaced at an office party, and being so drunk people filled in the missing two hours of what you did....According to my friend, nope wasn't me...Is that the time must dash!

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Speaking from the other side of the fence, I have an amazing group of friends but I constantly feel like I'm the replaceable friend. Given that I doubt I'd ever be able to make friendships like this again, I'm constantly torn between doing my own thing and trying to maintain these relationships. So I can somewhat sympathize with you

Financially? Getting into a shitload of debt (student loan, CC, Car Payments, etc) without very heavily weighing out everything.

Physically? Probably not seeing a doctor on a regular basis. Too many people I know refuse to see doctors or even if there are affordable options.

Spiritually? Fucking about with jobs and people that dont fulfill you or make your life any better. Not telling you to quit your job and take up your passion of weaving baskets under the sea, but sometimes a change if scenery can do wonders and even a new job title in your field can change your whole outlook on life. Lifes too short to put up with bullshit that isn't of your creation.

People not building their credit score seriously or working on building it. Your Mortgage isnt going to Approve itself if you don't first work towards it. Good Luck out there.

Pushing yourself to breaking point. It's not "all or nothing" you've got your whole lode to achieve your goals, so make mistakes, do the wrong thing, change your mind on major things and fail... because failing a lot is better than doing nothing and waaay better than trying to do everything perfectly and right now and ending up broken later.

How your credit score works and is determined. I got a credit card at 20 thinking you just spend the money and make the payments on time - wrong. Didn't do any research on utilization or anything like that and when I finally downloaded credit karma a year or two later my score was horrible, and it takes a long time to build it back up.

They start doing drugs thinking they aren't addicted.

Not taking care of yourself/knowing your health.

I'm 26, active and just found out I have stage 2 hypertension (high blood pressure). Pretty high for someone my age. Could be alcohol, could be job stresses. Only found out as I went in for something completely unrelated.

Keep an eye on yourself.

Thinking that money will come in as easily as it leaves. There are many, many reasons why you will find yourself with an unexpected expense you weren't anticipating on needing to pay—not even in an emergency, "my tire just blew out" kind of way, but in a "my friends are getting married and I have to buy them a gift," "I put on a little weight since my last job interview and need to buy a new outfit for this one," "my niece is asking me to donate to her school fundraiser" kind of way. And yet there are fairly few instances where you'll come into money that you weren't expecting. There's this unspoken belief that a lot of people have, especially younger people, that there's a certain type of karmic balance to the universe. And I think that plays into this that mindset, that if you have these unexpected expenses, they're surely be balanced by some occasional unexpected windfalls. But it never works that way. Those little expenses aren't going to break the bank, but there are a lot more of them than you'd think, and they add up.

Not looking after your teeth

Go out and rush into college without knowing what you really want to dedicate your life to

My parents brainwashed me on this one before I could understand it for myself: Don’t choose an oversaturated field with no jobs.

Being passionate about work is great, but there’s more than work to life, hobbies can coexist with a career that gives you a good quality of life.

Ambition and hard work can lead to success - but if there’s just one or two positions in the world in the field you’re aiming for, you’re not being very strategic in your decision from a risk perspective. Choose a field that leans on your strengths and you’ll be as fulfilled than if you join a field with no money. If you wait till your prime learning years are gone, you may find it tough to start from scratch again.

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I think finishing what you started is very important, especially if you get a degree. Having no degree will result in negative discrimination towards your pay and growth opportunities. If you're not happy with your degree but you're nearly done - just finish it. ANY degree is the requirement for most jobs.

You can always get a second degree after in something that has jobs. My friend did a bachelors in philosophy, and a data science graduate program after and placed himself in a very good job after.

You're in your twenties, you'll only wish you listened to any advice here in retrospect, current you isn't listening.

With all these good comments on not coasting and being proactive with your trajectory, I also see a lack in exposing the realities of failure. You will fail. Everyone fails. It will be a terrible feeling of self doubt and exhaustion. Do NOT listen to your what ifs - it would not have been better if you didn't try. Taking a risk to discover the path taken only tells you that did not work out at that time with the resources you had. As painful as that is, it is much better than living in wonder or regret. If you took the other route, the regret/wonder would still be there as you fantasize about the road behind you. Failure and hard work is the constant no matter whatyou perceive from other people's story or social media thread. With that said, be wise through it all to ensure you're not blindly running on a treadmill thinking you're persevering up a steep hill to your goal (unless your goal is to be in better shape and you maxed out the incline setting. Go get em). Seek good mentors outside your circle who are experienced in your field of focus - trust them, question them, teach them, learn.

not making mistakes

Credit card debt. Still haunts me and the wife and we’re very nearly 40. Makes it hard to save for the later years or invest.

Not having savings.

I know too many people who are post graduate and don't have any money in their savings account. It doesn't matter if it's 20 dollars or 2,000 dollars. Having some back up money for emergencies and a cushion can really help.

-Going to the bar more than twice a month shouldn’t be a thing.

-Get a hobby. Something that 30 year old you will thank 20 year old you for.

Spending money on dinner/drinks/brunch every weekend.

Buying a new car over a used car.

Having kids. you get all these girls with 3 kids, then they stay forever single, cuz they break up with thier boyfriend they had when they were 18.... Wait til ur 30 and know what you want from yo man. Like seriously, it's fucking pathetic....

Or if you're a guy getting someone pregnant when you are young and then you owe child support for 18 years. Don't trust the girl to take care of the birth control.

Not coming to terms with the fact they are not above probabilities. I saw countless friends from high school take a gap year, saying they would come back and go to college. They rarely end up going. Some did, but most won't.

I also saw it a lot in college. Penty of kids were persuing majors that don't have any practical job skills or the job markets are incredibly narrow. They always think they will get famous or go on to play sports professionally. This is the same type of thinking that would led people to smoke at parties, but never to think they would get addicted. Once they are addicted, they think they can just stop anytime they want.

If you can come to terms with the fact your uniqueness won't always translate to success. Then you will be able to make wiser choices, with your future.

Not having any work ethic. For anything. At all. Not even a bit. Believing that things will just come to you without putting in any effort, whether it be social or career or what have you, sitting back and saying all will be well is a recipe for the demolition of your life.

Stay in an unhealthy relationship until youre almost 30..thinking that it was "true" love

Student Loans, if you are in the United States.

give things time, especially at your job. jumping ship every 6 months sounds exciting, and seems like your doing great getting more money somewhere else, eventually you will simply wind up being known as the person who lasts nowhere and youll run out of places to go and will always be the first one to get dumped. The grass isnt always greener somewhere else.

( this does not apply to programmers, you have to jump ship)

This one is a bit abstract, but: not learning to be comfortable/happy by yourself, and not developing individual goals, interests and hobbies.

In your 20s, it seems as if this massive group of people will always be around, just hanging out and chilling on a couch, or drinking at the bar on random nights.

As you approach and enter your 30s, you'll notice a rapid decrease in the number of friends who are "around," as they start to settle into careers and have children.

Feeling content and comfortable when by yourself becomes increasingly important. Especially if you find yourself single in your late 20s/early-30s or later. You'll have a lot of time to fill, and at this age, little use for wallowing or loneliness. You need some hobbies and interests that you pursue entirely for yourself.

Develop personal interests and goals. It will make you stronger, more interesting, and ultimately more successful. Respect yourself and learn to stay positive. It is a skill that takes practice, like any other skill.

Wow great advice. I'm only 26 but already feel the early signs of this happening.

Ruining your credit. Seriously, just because you can get that store card doesn't mean you should.

Sinking a significant amount of money into an expensive wedding. I have a friend who got married and it took them almost 6 years to pay off the wedding and by that time they had already filed for divorce and it was a nasty divorce. Thankfully no children were involved in that mess, but the whole thing just seemed ridiculous. They had a much bigger wedding could ever be necessary, and I really think that the money issues that trying to pay off that wedding caused in their marriage is the reason it failed so quickly. And I think that happens to a lot of people. I read somewhere that money issues or one of the number one causes of divorce and it seems ridiculous to me that many people in their 20s get married and start off their new life with someone drowning in wedding debt.

For me the biggest mistake I made in my 20s was allowing my job to stress me out to the point that I got physically sick and I had no personal life. I found a new job before the old one destroyed me. I needed a crazy job like that fresh out of school to get a lot of experience in a hurry, but there's a reason a lot of the people out there drop dead before 50 and I didn't want to be one of them.

Start heroin

According to my mom getting married at 22.

Fucking up their credit

As someone that just turned 30... I'm gonna sit this one out.

Buying a new car.

Unprotected sex

Being a co-sign for someone else’s loan.

You’re putting your credit on the line for someone else, usually a friend asking a favour. The problem is, no true friend would ask you to put your financial well-being on the line for them. The fact that they’re asking you to do this means they’re not your friend and they aren’t likely going to make good on their payments.

Anyone asks you to co-sign for a loan, get gone.

Not being careful with their money, and having too much aversion to conflict. I had a roommate who would sometimes pay rent late. No big deal, I could afford to front it for a week or two. Then it happened every month. Then I ended up not getting rent for almost 6 months, and I never really said anything about it. Not counting utilities, and before I stopped even bothering to keep track, I had given him over $1,600, out of the goodness of my heart as it turned out.

Undervaluing relationships.

Not the girlfriends or homeboys, the adults who are doing what you want to be doing. Whether they have experience, access, contacts,power,etc.. cultivating those relationships in your 20s is an excellent way to forge a career, learn something new, or simply live life better.

Just be open and patient with the old people, everyone ends up there one day.

Getting a car or apartment or whatever that you can afford but just barely. I did this to myself with a new car, did really well on the payments for a year, then pulled a rib. Put me out of work for a month and workman's comp has a 2 week grace period before kicking in. That 2 weeks without pay fucked me, almost had the car repossessed which would have been an ever bigger pain in the ass.

tl:dr If you can only barely afford to make payments on something, then you can't afford it

Choosing the wrong field of study

If you did it wrong, its easily 5 years of your life gone. By the time you realise it, you are mid 30s no good career, full of debt and might need to take on more debt cause no one will hire you without the right degree

Skip that $5 Starbucks and put that daily amount in your 401k.

Not saving for retirement, if you do at that age, you will save a ton more.

Getting any type of criminal record... checking “yes” on the box that asks “Have you ever been convicted of...” creates so much extra paperwork.

Procrastinating.

If you have an idea or goal then go for it and don't worry about what the naysayers say! If you don't know what you want to do, try to save up and take an overseas holiday. It might help put some things in perspective.

Also, start reading books if you don't already.

Credit Card Debt.

Drink driving. Not worth it, sleep in your car if you must.

sleep in your car if you must.

You gave me a good idea. Thanks man.

Just gonna do my good citizenship and point out that if you're in the UK and are sleeping in your car drunk, please ensure your keys are outside the vehicle or with someone else (like behind the bar of the local you were in) otherwise police can stumble across you and get you done for intent to drive drunk and end up giving you similar punishments as though you'd done the deed. It's a stupid and harsh law, makes people want to take the risk of driving if they'll get done, but hey ho, stay out of trouble kids!

Thanks for clearing that up. I don't drive (menace enough to society without a tonne of metal), I only mention drunk driving as I knew somebody who killed a kid that way and it really messed him up. Left his wife, quit his job and left the country (lucky he was a police officer, almost certainly how he avoided prison). Can't imagine what it must have done to the poor kids family. I'll stick to my bus pass!

Cashing out a 401k when you change job instead of rolling it over

Not saving until later because you have time...

(401ks, IRAs, house downpayment, 529plans, etc)

  1. Ruin their credit
  2. Live outside your means
  3. Think you know it all

Getting into drugs/alchohol. Drinking almost ruined my life. I went into the military to do special forces and started drinking heavily when that didn't work out. Luckily I got my shit together after I got out and now I have a culinary degree. It was rough going for a while though, especially tough on my marriage. Do not let substances control you.

Subconsciously assuming that your life is a script that will play out and that you are in the audience watching it rather than the actor on the screen, doing it. If you don't do something there will be no movie. Don't wait, act. Make something of your life, with emphasis on the word make.

If you don't know what to do and feel like it would just be a random waste to pick something and start doing it, you are wrong. Do something even if you know it is not the the thing.

Movement causes you to bump into things, and that's how you know whether you like them, want them, and are good at them. It causes you to bump into people you would not have met and make connections you would not have made. And it causes you to move to a different place, figuratively. When you move to a different place, you get a different perspective. So what you want is movement.

If you don't know which way to go, just pick one. Any direction is better than no direction. You can always change directions. But do something. Fix your eyes at a point on the horizon and start moving actively towards it. Don't stand still staring 360 at the horizon around you and wondering which direction is the right way to go, imagining that the answer will come to you if you just think about it long enough. You will figure it out on the way. You'll figure it out so much faster if you move.

Having kids outside of wedlock

I’m a little late to the party, but a mistake I frequently see a lot of kids (and peers) make in their 20s is frequent binge drinking. Especially in college, many students will drink heavilyat least a few times per week. Sure, a lot of folks will graduate and leave their heavy drinking habits behind, but just as many can’t. Alcohol is a lot more addictive than many people realize, and developing a frequent binge drinking habit at a young age can lead to complications down the line.

I think it’s really important to moderate your intake and pay attention to whyyou’re drinking. I’m currently in a treatment program for alcoholism, and if I’d been aware of how easily one can go from socially drinking to alcoholism, I would have saved a lot of money and time.

Care about what everyone else is doing and using it as a benchmark.

I got married at 24 to someone I'd been in love with for 10, none of my friends were married. Not too long before my friends started to think about engagement to people they generally weren't happy with. I noticed a shifting pattern of a lot of people wanting to be in a committed relationship with people that weren't good for them because they felt that it was "that time".

From people struggling with some hardcore addiction to people with high end jobs in fancyland, I've been close with people in the latter half of my twenties who were on a different track. I am just fortunate my husband caught me before I absorbed myself in a 50+ hour a week job that would kill me at the time as I was very sick. And now I'm pregnant! Life has no trajectory.

Oh, and it's REALLY okay to grow apart. Don't hold on to a friendship. Especially if your maid of honour stole a card containing money and burnt the card.

Fuck up their birth control or not have birth control at all.

Getting a credit card and abusing it. Seriously. My life is still fucked up at 34

Going to college for anything that's not STEM

Ruin your credit

Don’t wear sunscreen.

Don’t use tanning beds either.

Getting too far into debt. It will eat up your best wealth building tool, your income. Live within your means and save for retirement if you can. Really wish I would have listened to this advice in my 20s.

Mess up your credit

Credit card debt. It’s a lose-lose situation.

Getting pregnant

Credit cards.

Coming from a guy current at the age of 23 whos already made many, many life damaging mistakes.

Doing stupid things thinking that because you're young you have a better chance of turning out okay. Setting your life on hold to take care of someone else (I took care of my Grandma who had dementia for years). Getting a useless degree and going to debt for some dumb shit like art, music or gender studies is a common for this generation I'm in too. They always regret it soon after.

Thinking at graduation from college, you’re gonna marry the person your dating. Especially if it’s long distance. And then adopting a dog on a whim after he breaks up with you because he’s a 22 year old dude that has no idea what he wants. And neither do you.

Wasting time and money on smoking, drinking, partying, gambling, or doing drugs (hard or recreational).

How you set yourself up financially in your 20's affects the rest of your life. Save your money now.

I wasted a lot of time of drinking, partying and smoking weed, still doing well and earning lots of money at 36 and financially stable. It's all about moderation.

Don't get Married! Wait until you're 32, or later. Waisted many years on the wrong person, not knowing what real love is. Some people have success in love early on, but if you're just a bit unsure; don't do it, and resist the pressure.

Getting into debt thinking someone will help bail you out. 37 and still paying for it.

Not starting a 401k.

Credit cards. I'm not saying nobody should have them, but you need to learn how they work and learn how to use them before getting them.

I’m a little late to the party but it’s been a fucking day and Xanax is the underlying reason why. Don’t fuck with that shit. I’m not gonna say I haven’t and that I’m a perfect person. But I’m seeing friends in school getting kicked out literally right now and the depression we all know has been there for months is starting to be expressed by people I consider family. I’ve seen my best friends become hollow shells of themselves by trying to self medicate using Xanax to only have any remaining happiness disappear.

You might read this and go fuck off, that’s dramatic. But trust me, Xanax is never the answer.

Not sure if it was mentioned already, but hanging out with unmotivated people and bad influencers. Know a friend from high school that got in with the wrong crowd. He fell through with a lot of our friends in high school and started hanging out with people experimenting with coke. Nothing against drugs but the people he chose to spend his time with didn’t give any shits about him and they used each other. In high school he had a lot of friends that would have supported him through his depression and his path down destruction with cocaine. One night he got so high, broke and entered an ex girlfriend’s home and raped her. He concealed his identity with a shirt and threatened her with a knife. He was in jail for 4 years and was just released last year. He’s on his best behaviour now, working and taking care of his kid but imagine being locked up in your early twenties. I hope he makes it and shoots straight from now on. Kitty if you’re reading this don’t forget you have true friends who won’t ever fuck you over

Getting into credit card debt and maxing out credit cards. Also, smoking

Buying a home with a significant other before you’re married. After years of promising marriage and “we’ll be married soon anyways, let’s buy it now,” we ended up breaking a year and a half after buying the house. We didn’t sign a non-spousal agreement before buying it (bad decision #2) and then we got lawyers involved. He now has to refinance to get my name off the mortgage. Lots of red flags that I chose to ignore, this being one giant half a million dollar flag.

Getting talked into something they really can't afford because it's "only a few more dollars a week". We almost bought our first mobile home this way. Fortunately, my SO talked me out of it, and a few months later, I was laid off. Boy, was I glad I didn't have that hanging over my head.

Thinking that you can't improve your situation immensely later by starting now. If you specialize in something or have a particular interest, learn everything and seek teachers to add to your knowledge and skills. If you have an interest in something don't doubt yourself, immerse yourself.

Ruining your credit.

TOO. MUCH. ALCOHOL.

It can ruin you. Treat it with respect.

Vaping - smoking - drugs - crime.

All of the above have long lasting negative consequences that are hard to imagine when you are 20 and bulletproof.

Not putting money into their 401k

Not saving for retirement.

Not doing everything you can to max out your 401k

Networking. Don't want to be stuck working retail forever? Want a nice office job? The way you do that is with networking. Meet people build business relationships, keep in contact etc, it's a lot of work but worth it. LinkedIn is basically perfect for this shit. Don't wait on it either by your late 20s you may only keep in contact with a few people so do it when you still have good connections.

Don’t run away from a good relationship because you think you are too young. Finding the right person can be hard and if you find someone and you are both very happy, consider yourselves lucky, and dive into it.

That words have consequences. Think before you speak.

I see tons of people saying to save up and be frugal. Honestly, yes you should. But also, you will literally NEVER EVER EVER be in your 20’s again. You get ONE shot to live young. Spending SOME money while having the power of youth is much much more enjoyable than spending a lot of money at 55.

Spending $500 on a pair of running shoes lol, watches, fashion and all that bullshit. I've never been able to understand why people spend ridiculous money to imitate Justin Bieber and Chris Brown. I know it's a part of growing up in the US (i'm Aussie) but damn you got kids screeching for Jordans and Iphone X's when their parents are probably struggling with a mortgage. Fashion culture is fucking cancer.

Not marrying because "muh independence". Miss, if you both landed stable jobs, are in love and would love to have children, then by all means tie the knot. Being "your own person" and having children are not mutually exclusive. You aren't getting the best of life if you delay something you strongly wish for just because others have told you it's a nightmare come true.

It isn't.

Agreed. If there is one thing I could go back in time and do is have kids I'm my 20's, not wait till I was in 30s. The stupid shit I did in my 20s I would have been better off not doing anyway.

I married in my mid 20s, luckily. But every time I picture my life as "still single" now in my mid 30s, I see so much empty time I would be filling with vacuous activities.

In my close group of friends there is 6 couples, 3 decided to have kids in their 20s and had kids easily. The other 3 waited till 30s and had nothing but problems either trying or health in general. Completely anecdotal, but is also something nobody thinks about.

That's a biological fact: The younger the woman, the easier is for her to have children. I'm still trying for my third. Mid 30s.

Not taking care of your skin

I'm sitting in a friend's apartment and she's in Africa, student visa expired. So many possessions that now must be gone in a week.

Advice: avoid buying a lot of stuff. Sure, the apartment looks nice, and shows your personality. But it's a bitch when (not if) you need to move.

Consumer debt. Revolving credit. Drinking more than twice a week. Tobacco use. Eating shit instead of food. . Not counting your money often.

Live within your means, AVOID ANY DEBT, no matter how small.It's wasted money. SAVE MONEY, a 401k or other tax deferred plan is the way to go.You can have several MILLION dollars when you retire. Max out your savings and contributions. This doesn't mean you will have a boring, austier life, you will be surprised! I know you all HATE boomers, but trust me I AM RIGHT ON THIS. American Dream bullshit says buy a house, borrow, get loans BUY BUY BUY! DON'T FALL FOR IT, it's just a scheme so OTHER people can get rich off you!

Many people have NOTHING, I'm glad I don't have to live on a poverty level Social Security after working for forty years. We don't have to worry about where our next meal is coming from!

Not taking advantage of every moment they have and kicking their own butts to create an amazing future.

I'm 36 years old. I'm sitting here, almost yearning to go back to 2005, when I was 23 and newly married and hadn't faced the heart crushing challenges that were coming to me.

I'd have spent more time with my parents before my dad died. I'd have built my business with passion and conviction so that we would be out of debt instead of neck deep. I'd have enjoyed time getting to know my husband better and learning how to be a better wife.

Most things can be fixed, but my twenties were a horrible time for me, and my thirties haven't been much better. I wish young people today would make each day their own and never stop.

opening too many credit cards

Not developing a strong work ethic.

Pay the price when your young and healthy - work over time, go the extra mile, dream big and work towards it. Your success curve in life is like an exponential curve - the longer you wait, the harder it is to get to a comfortable, successful place.

I know guys in their late 30s who are still basically on the longest summer break from college ever, lol. They have this mentality of "one day, ill get serious and start putting some effort into my life". I hate to break it to them but...it's gonna be much harder now.

Other guys started their own businesses in college, or found a great possibility of a career, worked hard, applied themselves, learned a lot, made friends in business and succeeded. They are are also in their late 30s or early 40's and drive BMW's and take 8 weeks of vacation per year.

Do the hard work up front.

Going to Law School!

[deleted]

"Getting dead"

Not finishing school (community college or undergraduate or even any kind of trade I’ve tech program) because you have an opportunity to work.

A lot of people from my high school did this. They started school, had to opportunity to work full time somewhere making ~$10-12 an hour and decided to drop out to work. They (mostly) all had the excuse of “oh I’ll make some money and then come back and finish.” It’s been 10 years and none of them went back.

Unless you DESPERATELY need the money and will be homeless without it, finish school.

Side story: a friend of mine dropped out to pursue a job where she made $12/hr. All throughout my time in undergrad she bragged about how she had all this money ( she lived with her parents and paid no bills btw) and made fun of me for being a broke undergrad student. After graduation, I got an entry level position answering phones for $15/hr. My friend had 3+ years of experience and had been promoted to the second highest position in her department. There was only one position above hers and the person in that position had held that title for 15+ years. There were no more opportunities for her to advance. She was making close to $13 an hour. Fast forward to now: it’s been nearly 6 years since I had gotten that entry level position and have been able to secure better employment. My friend is still at that same job and she can’t afford to live by herself without roommates so she has to live with her parents.

Like what someone I’m close with is doing, wasting money on tattoos and piercings when you have $130,000 in debt from college. It’s called priorities and getting rid of debt is apparently not one of theirs.

Sex. It’s thrown around to much. Always wear a condom. Better yet, don’t go out of your way for sex. Assume the other party has an std and won’t tell you they have something. And oral, vaginal, anal. Are all sex. Don’t let one night ruin your life and your chances of being with a good person. If you meet someone they have every right to turn you down for an std. even something as basic as herpes.

Not traveling. Ugh. I passed up a semester of exchange in London because of some dude who lied about not living in his van. Also, travel is a lot cheaper than people think. Do it.

UNPROTECTED SEX.

Seriously. Don't fuck that up. Shit has consequences.

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reliable car https://www.reddit.com/r/highmileclub/

Hopefully you started when you were 18 or early 20's, but if you are going to college or are in college and don't really have a plan on what to do with you life get a STEM degree.

The jobs available to you will be drastically better paying. You may end up with a non STEM degree not enjoying what you do and getting paid half of you not enjoying what you with with a STEM degree.

At least with a higher better paying job you have the opportunity to save and at some point more easily do something you enjoy or have time and money to find something that you get paid to do and not have any life hardships.

Drugs and alcohol. Ruined my life. Got my shit together in my late 20's in a ton of debt with no degree

Not starting a retirement account.

Fuck their credit up.

It doesn't matter if he doesn't like wearing condoms, it doesn't matter if she's "on the pill" or whatever. If your having sex, be safe. A kid in your 20's makes this part of life 1000% harder

Believing that you're being screwed over and held back by those older than you. It's not only not true, the mentality is toxic and will prevent you from building the momentum you need to surpass everyone.

Your successful friends will be those that never felt "screwed over"

Biggest mistake? There are a few. But one of the easiest mistakes to make is to fall into unnecessary credit card debt. Just get a job and be brokeivr everyone else your age. Don't finance a life beyond your means.

Also, watch out for hard drugs (i.e. Meth, heroin/opioids), addiction, and unprotected sex.

Doing what you think your supposed to do, instead of doing what you actually want to do. You don’t have to go to college to get a career you don’t give a shit about just so you can be financially stable when your older. Go out and explore, fuck up a few times, figure out what you want and fucking go for it! Its a lot easier to make your own path than people make it out to be....

A lot of this! I first started learning how to make electronic music when I was 27 on a whim, 3 years into my career because it was fun and I figured why not?

Being a "grown-up" has been so much better and clearer since I made that choice! I still rely on my career to make a living at the moment but it's a blast having this in my life and I don't meet a lot of other people in my field that have serious side hobbies like this that they are passionate about, so it's a good way to distinguish yourself too!

Mistaking love for fish love: An older man approaches a younger man and says, “‘Young man. Why are you eating that fish?’ The young mans says, ‘Because I love fish.’ He says, ‘Oh. You love the fish. That’s why you took it out of the water and killed it and boiled it.’ He says, ‘Don’t tell me you love the fish. You love yourself, and because the fish tastes good to you; therefore, you took it out of the water and killed it and boiled it.’

“So much of what is love is fish love. Young couple falls in love. Young man and young woman fall in love. What does that mean? That means that he saw in this woman someone who he felt could provide him with all of his physical and emotional needs, and she felt in this man somebody she feels that she can write, that was love, but each one is looking out for their own needs. It’s not love for the other. The other person becomes a vehicle for my gratification.

Buying a fucking Porsche.

Fun car, bad use of money.

Credit card debt.

When you get your first adult job you are going to want to spend too much on a car. Dont do this (source: me, my friends). If you need a vehicle, go get a certified used Corolla. It will last you forever and will be cheap maintenance.

Get a gym membership. Go to the gym 3-5 times a week and develop good eating habits. Lots of good subreddits for this.

Don't spend a lot on clothes but if you need to, get decent work clothes. GAP can cover most of your basics and r/malefasionadvice can assist with suggestions ( I assume that there is a female equivalent).

Start saving. Set up an IRA and contribute regularly. Also, set up a savings account that automatically transfers money from your savings account every 2 weeks (pay periods).

Be happy. Love yourself and remove the people from your life that are cancerous. Find a hobby or something you are passionate about. Do things that put you out of your comfort zone, this really will help you grow as a person.

Don't compare yourself with others. They don't know what they are doing either. They may seem more successful, rich, or happy but they could be secretly miserable or are massively in debt to make others thi k that they are doing better than they are. Only person to compare yourself to is your previous self.

Be a human with a typical nervous system & hormone levels for a 20-something with no prior training including practice at managing the impulses that you experience.

Seriously, all the advice here is great but teenagers and early twenty-somethings are pure idiot. In the daytime when there's no booze, no peers, and no romantic interests around, sure, all this advice seems sensible and pretty easy to put into practice.

But man when you're tired or buzzed or out with friends or chasing some tail... forget it. "Just this once" becomes your go-to justification and suddenly you used your credit card "just this once" until it's maxed out. You realize that 6 months of emergency fund can be rebuilt because hey you built it once, right?

Don't come to this thread looking for quick fixes. Every piece of good advice in here requires dedication, commitment, self-denial, sacrifice, delayed gratification, etc., and none of those come from a stern talking to yourself in the mirror. They mostly come from your parents, mentors, and peers training you to do them and from practicing doing them while you still have a modicum of control over yourself.

Assume everyone that's selling something to you is lying. No, really. It's all lies. TV ads, online reviews, "customer" reviews, "news" stories about a new product, your good buddy talking about it on Facebook, it's all lies trying to trick you out of your money.

Sometimes blood is shittier than water.

If you wake up, as I did, in your 20s and realize your family was intentionally/unintentionally your biggest problem, you can create the family you need.

Chosen family is a real thing. I have friends that are closer to me than my husband is to his own sister. And it makes sense when you think about it: you and your friends choose to stay in touch, and there’s real love that keeps friendships together. Celebrate it! We have holiday get togethers, summer parties, birthday parties for our kids, all the things families by blood have, but with no arguments, no pent up resentment, no passive aggression because we’re choosing to be together rather than doing it out of obligation.

The seeds I planted in my 20s have bloomed in my late 30s. Cultivate your friendships, work on them, hold them tight.

Rubbing your eyes so hard. IT MIGHT DAMAGE YOUR CORNEA!!! Use eye drops instead

Spending money. You have to ask yourself. Is it worth throwing money into things? Do you always have to eat out, have the latest things, splurge on video games? It’s good to enjoy life but be wise with your money.

A big mistake would be not caring about your credit, or messing it up. It will take a long LONG time to fix it.

not pulling out

Credit cards.

Not investing on a retirement fund and not going to the dentist regularly.

I knew reading this damn thread in my late twenties would be depressing 😒

Don't listen to people who tell you that you've still got time to [insert work/school/personal goals here]. They are giving you bad advice and enabling indecision and procrastination. Figure out what you want and get moving on it ASAP.

Drunk driving. A friend of mine got wasted and decided to go home in his car. Ran over and killed some guy and now will spend all his 20's in jail.

Thinking they have plenty of time.

Finish college. There's plenty of time to party after college. Trust me. Don't take a couple of years off. Stay with mom and dad until you finish college. Save your money. Buy a used car. Don't ruin your credit. Turn off that damn video game at a decent hour.

I apologize if it has been said but save for your retirement. No seriously SAVE FOR YOUR RETIREMENT. someday you’ll be old and still want cool shit. Save for retirement or you will be right back to eating ramen when you retire.

Going to college.

Don't get me wrong. College is the best way to get most of the best jobs. But there's more applicants than available jobs in many cases, and the pay doesn't always make up for the cost.

If you want to go to college, do it. If you don't want to, or can't, don't force yourself to go. There's tons of great jobs that don't require college.

Additional related piece of advice. You don't need to live in/near a major city.

Acquiring debt and taking it lightly

Man.... So many choices for bad decisions for people in their 20's...

1) Leasing a car that you can't really afford. Not only will you have nothing to show for your payments when the lease is up, but you can get into serious shit if you suddenly find yourself getting a new job with a long commute. Those extra mileage fees add up quick, dude. Trust me, I learned this one the hard way.

2) Not investing up to the match in your 401k. You're missing out on FREE retirement money here, which will likely compound to 5x what you invested by the time you retire.

3) Getting married and having kids. Even if you or wife think this is a good idea... it's not. Once you start having kids, your free time and extra spending money will suddenly disappear for years to come. So will the sex life, most likely! Get a few items on your bucket list checked off first while you're still young enough to fully enjoy them.

Trying to “settle down”. You’re in your 20s you need to explore, grow and try new and different things to find out what you really like and what you really don’t like.

Telling people close to you about the boatload of cash you just inherited. Don’t do it.

No doubt. Number one mistake for guys is substance abuse. For girls, it is, in my opinion, being too defensive about feminism thus keeping men away and from emotionally intimate relations. And then waking up at 30 and realizing they don't have a life, a boyfriend, no prospects, and no ides how to attain any of that.

As someone in their low twenties, feeling invincible. I thought I could get away with anything until I got a drinking ticket freshman year of college. While it doesn’t seem much, it was a real wake up call to how fast things can turn around.

  • i definitely agree with the exercise thing. don't go overboard. but make sure you develop good eating habits.
  • the moment you get your own credit card, don't go nuts with it. i didn't just get one but three. and i tried doing the balance transfer thing. two is good enough (one for backup)
  • not investing into an IRA right away
  • not learning the basics of taking care of yourself. do yourself a huge favor and if your parents raised you well, ask them how. there's a lot of little things that they've already went through which you should seriously be asking before you leave the house. take notes.
  • not thanking your parents if they raised you well. seriously. do this the moment you get your own place and a job. they don't get enough credit here.
  • not making sure your parents are in a good place when you're ready to leave. check up on them because they may not have their own lives lined up. also, make sure you can get them to sign a will if they haven't already.
  • not traveling while you have the time, money, energy and low risk. traveling is one of those things that add up in cost. it'll be harder and harder to make those trips around the world since you should be throwing more money into your bank account until you've got your major things settled away (e.g. car, house)
  • not working abroad. it's much harder to move once you've developed a rhythm. i highly suggest working abroad to give you a better perspective of things. it helped me a great deal since it made me more culturally sensitive.
  • not marrying your sweetheart. if you're blessed with good looks and great endowments, you probably can ignore me. but i just think it gets harder and harder to meet "the one" as you get older. you will find that your habits and ways of thinking become less malleable and you might grow cynical, which can affect relationships. if family is a goal, do it earlier. that way you can see your kids grow up and hopefully your other family members can meet them too.
  • not settling into good routines. bad habits get worse as you get older. nip them in the rear right now before it gets too easy to ignore them.

Not picking a career you are passionate about and sticking with it, especially women. Get the degree or certification, or get some good work experience and keep going. I never could make up my mind, so I quit college, worked in factories, stayed home with my kids, was a massage therapist, worked as an ed assistant, got my bachelor's and teaching certification, but can't handle the stress heading towards 60. And now I have no savings and very little retirement. I'll be working til I'm dead.

I'm sure it's been said but, not saving any money. Get in the habit of paying yourself into a savings account every paycheck, the rest is for bills/etc. If you have a big expense (car repair, etc) you can dip some from your savings to soften the blow.

I don't remember, in great detail, anything I did while drunk... But, I do know that there is not one single cherished experienced that I have, which would have been enhanced by alcohol.

Don't drink heavily, don't have a kid, try to be social in a positive way.

I turn 20 in two weeks from today. Gonna save this thread to not make these mistakes.

Today? ... Not buying #bitcoin.

Someday never comes... Do it now!

Credit cards

Falling out of touch with friends or family. It’s easy to become preoccupied with your new adult lifestyle and all the responsibilities that entails, but it can be healthy to budget some time away to visit or reach out to people you had long-standing bonds with him your adolescence. You will be surprised how much someone needs to hear from a friend or how much you may need it as well.

This. I acknowledge that I've grown out of the bonds having physically moved away and being preoccupied but it fills me with regret that I can't get back in touch.

Alcoholism/Binge Drinking.

Having kids without getting married.

Getting in the habit of spending your entire paycheck.

Using your credit card to buy things you can't afford outside of emergencies.

Getting a criminal record.

Not contributing to a retirement fund.

Putting on weight.

Sleeping like shit. Even if you can get away with it when you're young, it'll hit you eventually if you get bad sleep consistently. I used to be able to get away with rocky sleep all the time, now I'm older and get horrible migraines if my schedule is even slightly off. It drives me crazy. :} may have one right now

Not using condoms

Smoking. Don’t ever. Ever. Start..please don’t.

  1. Make and cultivate those lasting friendships. Kick those fair weather friends to the curb early. I wasted so much time and energy trying to stay close with my HS friends when my world was expanding with work and university. I thought that it would be noble for me to keep my old friends for the sake of comfort, but I started seeing better people with more in common with me as I started growing up. They just couldn't keep up or they resented me for flourishing when they wanted to stay put. I realised that just because they seen you every day of your teenage years, doesn't mean they actually knew you. The truth is: YOU probably didn't know you. So how could they?!

  2. (And to easily segue into next item) Actively continue finding YOU. Bank on experiences now. Go out and find your true passions while you have the energy and wherewithal to journey as far and as deep as you can. I went to places that played live rock music when I usually only listened to rap and rnb. I loved the atmosphere and fell in love with The Tragically Hip. I hung out at art galleries and rugby games. I loved the atmosphere. I didn't actually work out regularly until my twenties because I didn't have interest in moving. But I wanted to be in shape so I tried everything. Running, aerobics classes, yoga, pilates, zumba, and even rock climbing. I found that I actually liked exercise but with music and not with a trainer. The gist is experiences will define you as a person and who you really are. I decided to move to Korea at 28 and it was the best decision I've ever made. It changed me as a person.

  3. Be good to yourself. Like I said before, I wasn't very physically active in my early years. I've always been chubby and short but I learned too late in my twenties that i wasn't doing my health any favours. This has also bled into my mentality of my twenties as an ice queen who secretly believed that I wasn't shit under anyone's shoes. I look back and should have been kinder to myself because I was being noticed by the men around me, I just was too afraid to let my guard down. I regret not taking those chances. I also regret not wearing more makeup and wearing what I really wanted to wear. Don't be so hard on yourself. You have more to offer than people can see upon first impression.

  4. Get your money right. If you think school is your way to make it into your dream career go get that degree or diploma. If you think you need practical knowledge in your field, go work. Follow your passion and make it make you money. Strategize on how. Plan your future, but make sure that its something you love. Money can always be made, but never easily earned unless you love your job. And save little at first. It will teach you how to save more later.

  5. Have fun. You want to look back on your twenties with more fondness than regret. Read more, travel more, and get the most out of life. I know too many people that say that they should have done more travelling, more dating, more discovering in their twenties - don't be one of us.

Working too much and never taking time to enjoy the present. I don't know how many people I see working 50 plus hours a week. It's not bad to work so much but please enjoy what's around you. Go to a park and walk. Drink a cup of tea at night. Read a book. Go to the lake. Try something different. Don't eat the same all the time. Try that weird Mexican restaurant instead of taco Bell again. Learn to cook some god damn steaks.

Too much drugs and alcohol. I myself enjoy having a good time. But when you need to take it because being sober sucks, you need to start making some life changes.

I agree with the active lifestyle part, especially before you consider becoming a parent. Also, never stop learning, you may be tired of reading after school etc but keep finding ways to keep the curiosity alive

Becoming chemically dependent. Some people are born addicts, others backdoor themselves into dependency through routine use. Alcohol is a spirit that will wreak havoc on you physically and mentally if you invite it in.

Trying harder drugs just to get the “college experience.” Quickest way to flunk out and get addicted. A steady supply, whether it’s Adderall to “study” or opiates to take the edge off can and will quickly ruin your life. I’ve seen it a ton of times, unfortunately.

Not starting a consistent medical history. Check ups, blood work, pap smears, prostrate exams, and all vaccinations. If you don't have a medical history to help cross out possible causes, when things start to go south it's going to either take longer to properly diagnose, or you may even get misdiagnosed altogether, because you don't have a history of reporting mild infrequent pain that one day suddenly gets worse and makes you wish death, so to the medical staff you might come off as a tweaker before they figure out it was an issue you waved off until that point.

Another thing people don't like to do is talk to their parents about their medical history, and some parents just don't mention it to their kids. Baffles me - if you have a genetic condition, tell your kids!

From my experience, it’s putting your priorities straight so you will never have to say « I didn’t try hard enough » or « I wish I did that ». Everything else is based on that.

My dad used to say he wish he had more guts to leave being a math teacher with a passion for computers and actually become a full fledged developer. That was in the 60s and 70s, where you could write Visicalc in your basement or MS-DOS with a few colleagues.

I grew up with that mentality, as Yoda said, « don’t try, do! ». Going out drinking beers, seeing a few shows, never really took much drugs (never paid for any), worked my ass on creating softwares, started a company, tried things, failed horrendously a few times, got burned badly a few times, went back to Mommy once. Learned the hard way to have colleagues that complete me, not trying to be a lone ranger.

In other words: You have all the time in the world, you can do anything! You can take whatever money sits in your piggy bank and take a bus to NYC and go see the next Broadway show right now if you wish. Having no time is a fallacy of the mind. This not being a priority is the main point here. Set your priorities straight! If you need to see your friends and drink beer and relax and sleep, so be it. You chose that. If you decide you want to be a farmer, go farm! If you want to be a doctor, study and become the best you can be!

- Not saving money

- Dating/marrying recklessly

- Not staying fit.

  1. Debt
  2. Not doing the things they want before families/careers
  3. Debt

Life is about finding the balance. In your 20s you must rock violently from one side to the other until you sort of even out in the middle by the time you're 30. Then you have kids.

Don't think you need to be in a relationship to be validated. Work on being confident in yourself first, finding out what you love about life... Personal growth is worth it as it'll set you for the long run!

And save all the money you can if you want to be rich and do everything you want later, spend all the money you can if you want to do what you can now.

Ruining your credit.

Stopping learning new

I'd say focusing too much on career and not living it up when you're young, and conversely, not planning ahead for the future. The best thing to do is find a balance.

Realizing too late that you’re an alcoholic. Take it from someone whose family has struggled with alcoholism for generations: If you have a whole list of reasons that your drinking doesn’t qualify as “too much,” you should at least consider that you may have a problem.

Letting partying and socializing become detrimental to potential. Whether you are in college, trade school, the military, or working at a steady job already, there's lots of pressure for twenty-somethings to waste their time drinking heavily, staying up late, and generally wasting time fucking around because YOLO and this is the best time of your life.

I did too much of that in college. I still finished with better than average grades and love my job today, but I know that I could be so much further if I hadn't fucked off so much. If I met my past self, I would tell him to surround himself with different people. You do what the people around you do, and more so at that age. So, surround yourself with people that are doing things and going places, and then you will be more likely to go places as well. You don't have to abandon your friends. Pull them up as you climb, if they need help, instead of you both staying at the same level.

Experiencing solo travel. This is the best age to go explore. Save up money to book a ticket (way cheaper if bought a few months in advance) and go. The knowledge and personal growth one develops while traveling in a new area/ country alone is invaluable.

  1. Smoking pot

  2. See 1

Confusing drinking/smoking buddies for real friends.

Think that you don't have the time to do something.

I basically wasted part of my late 20's not trying new thing s because "I didn't have the time to".

Find something you've never done before or enjoyed before (travel music arts ) and make time for it.

Because it's not going to get better as time goes by .

Drinking and Driving

Having kids/getting a dog without the financial stability to support it and yourself.

Get in deep with the creditors.

accumulating too much debt on top (or even without) student loans without having a steady, dependable source of income.

Spend so much time getting turnt up with the boys that you forget how to love.

Not investing in a 401k. The earlier the better. You won't miss 3 or 4% of your paycheck but it adds up later especially if your employer matches it.

Buy a car straight out of college

Never going outside. Never moving.

College really encourages being a shut in. I’ve had some health problems this year and as soon as the weather got better I forced myself to go for walks. The breathing problems reduced and I feel so much better just by moving around

Spending nearly every weekend drinking and smoking, and then recovering from said drinking and smoking. Confusing mindless partying with adventure. What a waste of precious time.

Letting friendships die.

I've seen so many studies about the emotional/mental/physical health benefits of having high-quality friendships as you age.

Blowing off plans is fun and easy today. But what's amazing is having a friend fifteen years from today that has been there for you in your best, worst, and in between times. Be there for someone. You deserve it.

Not taking care of you mind, body, and soul. It pays to take care of these while you're young.

Being a dumbass. Don’t believe in the myth of your own immortality. Serious injuries or death are hard to come back from and they can change the course of your life pretty irrevocably. Same goes for health but that’s been covered pretty extensively by others. Don’t act with callous disregard for the prospects of the future you. I’m not saying people shouldn’ take risks and bike or ski down mountainsides. Just be circumspect and prepared. Don’t be the moron who throws him or her self or a mountain despite a lack of experience or skills just to impress someone.

STOP SMOKING.

It fucks up literally everything in your body. Not figuratively, literally everything.

Not sticking it to the man.

Edit: To m, this is serious. Not expressing your own autonomy and power as an individual can keep your worldview as small as the box you’ve been put in.

Wrecking their credit

Getting on herion seen it destroy many lives.

Getting suckered into joining a multi-level marketing company. To echo what others have said about debt, while a few very driven people may make money, for the rest it can be a quick way to dig yourself into a financial hole so deep it may take years to get out of.

In my opinion, experimenting with addictive drugs. It really isnt worth it as it can fuck up the next chunk of your life.

Assuming your body will stay in roughly the same condition no matter what you do to it. I am 31 now and some days grumpy and sore from beating the crap out of myself. Mostly falling off of dirt bikes and quads and never letting injuries heal correctly

Getting in debt. Can stay with you for life if you don't have the income to cover it

Not using birth control when you don't want kids.

If you sit on your ass and party for even half your twenties.....you will wake up at 35 having watched all your friends pass you up being doctors and lawyers in half million dollar houses wondering where the fuck time went and how the hell you are going to catch up.

Forgetting to develop personally as well as professionally. This can be as hard to catch up on as a career.

Suicide...

Don't commit a crime

Think about what lifestyle you want, and work towards that. Worry about making money later. If you find something you’re passionate about and talented at, you’ll find a way to make money doing it.

Cosigning your sister's loan. COSIGNING YOUR SISTER'S LOAN.

Be whoever you want to be , and do whatever you want to do. Prioritize yourself in more ways and never let the hurting of others dictate what will truly make you happy

Have kids get credit cards accumulate any debt whatsoever not fuck every fucking thing they can find

Getting pets.

It’s not: - choosing the wrong degree or school - picking one job over another - spending too much time with those who don’t treat you (or others) well - wasting time creating five year plans - spending too much and investing too little - sweating the small stuff

Your biggest mistake in your 20s: Choosing poorly in a life partner.

Alcohol. Drugs. Unsafe sex. Neglect school. Neglect health. Mistreat elders. Chase childish dreams.

Becoming an alcoholic when you turn 21. Turning 21 is not a license to ruin your life. Be responsible.

Source: Me

Buying a home.

You hardly know what the future holds for you in your 20s, much less where you want to live for the next 15 to 30 years, and then the house you paid a mortgage all those years is suddenly worth less than how much you owe.

Almost no 20-something should ever buy a home. Your career may have job offers on the other side of the country, and you'll be stuck paying a mortgage for a home that you've come to hate because of its location and how worthless it has become on the housing market.

Become pregnant with roaches.

live with a woman. date a heroin addict.

Drinking and driving. DWI's are no fun. Also you can kill people. Get an Uber.

Start using drugs and become addicted

Not looking for yourself.

Listening to shitty advice. I went to college and bought a mustang because my parents pushed me towards it.

Confusing building credit with building debt.

Not living your life for you.

I’m almost 25, have 35k in debt, live with my parents, and have nothing to show but a half paid off car and a dead-end job. Please learn from my mistakes. There’s nothing wrong with going to school. Just make sure you go because YOU want to. It’s your life and your happiness is all that matters.

For me it was believing that because I was 20+ years old, I was mature. Looking back, I don't see how I was any more mature as a 20+ year old than a 14 year old.

Let mental health issues go undiagnosed and untreated. Or try to medicate them yourself with alcohol and drugs.

Save for retirement. When you get that first real job, have 4% at least go to your retirement. Preferably Roth. If they match try and meet that. The more time your money has the more money you have.

As someone still in my 20's navigating it all: Worry less about trying to make people like you.

That doesn't mean "oh be a douchebag, I don't care if anyone likes me!" or any of that shit. But if someone falls out of being friends with you, either because you've both changed and are no longer friendship-compatible or external factors like something someone else told them, et cetera? Do not lose sleep over it.

It sucks losing friends, especially close ones, but stressing over it all and trying to force a friendship seldom works. Try reaching out if you haven't, apologize (sincerely and without trying to shift blame or explain in a way that negates your role in the situation) if it's warranted. But don't continuously try to force a connection, or stress over their social medias etc if they don't seem to reciprocate.

You'll be very upset then and upset for a while (maybe for a looong time!), but one of the best ways to start feeling better is to accept the situation's out of your control and move on with your life for the time being.

Thinking they can stop drinking heavy whenever they feel like it.

start doing meth regularly, and slowly phase into prescription drugs

Making a long lasting life decision based on temporary emotion.

There is a difference between something you can buy and something you can afford, most people buy things they can’t afford and regret it years later when they want to get something they want/need. The other part is planning for the future. Doing it early will help you when you find your self in your 60s and wondering what happened. Last but not least, get life insurance, you can drop dead at any moment for any reason the last thing you need to do is make your loved one’s lives hard by wondering how they are going to pay to cremate or burry you.

Alcohol has been the worst mistake I’ve seen many people make.

Public Sex. Do not do it. Just don't.

Not realizing that someday you'll be 70 years old...to make it there successfully you have to start saving early otherwise the rest of your life is a struggle to make it there at all. If you like to travel don't miss out on traveling while you're young. Take care of your health. You will get sciatica somewhere after 40, the pain is unimaginable but your parents never warn you about this. I was telling an 80 yr old guy at the golf course about my sciatica, he said, "Oh no sciatica? That's more painful than a heart attack! I know from experience!" Learn how to be a conversationalist, it will take you around the world.

Depending in any way on anyone, try to put yourself in a position where even if everyone around you dies, you can still live a normal independent life.

Opiates, human trafficking & Scientology.

I've seen people in their 20s ask me about stock investments. They seem to get carried away by the compounding stories and how money saved now can help a lot years later. So much so, that investment seems to be the only thing they care about.

Honestly, investment matters but not as much as education. I would rather see people in their 20s invest in reading books, or getting courses, learning new skills. Use your money to sign up for sports clubs, meet new people etc. Forget investing in stocks at this age.

You are much likely to benefit from these skills than from investing. Use money wisely. Start investing in late 20s or early 30s. Before that, prefer using money to get more skills. That's useful in life.

Having no understanding of finances.

Drinking too much.

Prob DUI

Going to jail and ending up with a misdemeanor or worse on their record.

Not figuring out who they are individually. I derived a lot of interests, traits and self-worth from my college buddies plus the countless opportunities to hang out with them. The problem with that mindset is that friends come and go; once we graduated and physically went our separate ways, they weren't around anymore. It took a long 2 months and many tears to realize that I needed to get my train of thought out of the gutter and learn what makes ME happy, independent of others.

Major in something in college they can't use to make money with. You're going to regret that one.

As a colliery though, it should be something you do enjoy. Gotta find that balance.

Incurring lots of student debt studying something without any sense of endgame - what degree are you trying to achieve, what kinds of jobs or positions are you trying to get with that degree, why do you want those jobs or positions, and how realistic is your plan (looking at stats and speaking to people in the industry is good for this last part)?

Spending way too much on a wedding.

Thinking it's too late to jump your career ship and start over.

If you're perpetually unhappy in your field go do something else or you may end up an unhappy chicken shit at the end of your life.

Smoking

To do as you're told when it feels so very wrong.

Chose the wrong course in University

Take out as much as you can for a student loan. Not graduate. Default, then completely fuck up your credit.

Taking on tens of thousands of dollars in student loan debt, if you're not getting a HIGHLY specialized degree like becoming an MD. The job market is the exact same before and after. Wages are the exact same. The only thing people care about is experience. If I'd spent those 4 years building experience in the job market instead of going to school, I'd be light-years ahead. Entry-level jobs pay LESS than I made waiting tables. Only difference is now I have to pay off $80k for the rest of my natural life.

Children.

Drugs.

Not trying anything!

Debt that you cannot manage

I personally feel that the 20s is a time to grow up and mature. Make your mistakes and learn. I might've matured too quickly due to the military, but i honestly believe the biggest mistake is taking life for granted. Time flies and is very limited. Do what you want, in moderation of course, but take everything as a learning experience. Don't be too tied down or busy to relax and have fun. Hope this gave you a little insight.

Paying for bar tabs via credit... Credit in general and being a paycheck to paycheck drunk.

Saying No too often. Your 20s are for saying Yes.

This may have been said already, but schooling. Take it seriously and work hard to embrace your opportunities. Keep your GPA up, make connections and work towards an internship. It'll do wonders for the rest of your career.

Making a ton of good friends instead a few outstanding best friends

Working for vector marketing

Getting into their 30's.

Living like you are in your 30s

Basically there is going to be a shit time in your life. You will be poor, have student loans, live in a crap apartment, drive a crap car, have crap furniture etc

This is just part of starting out in life. You havn't been promoted, paid off loans, found your dream job/whatever yet.

AND THAT IS OK!

There will be people you know that seem like they are living better than you, they will drive better cars, have all the high end electronics, go on vacations etc

It could be that they make a lot more money, but most likely they are just deep deep in credit card debt.

I'm sure tons of people in this thread will tell you the same thing, and list stories about how they gathered huge sums of credit card debt (I've been there as well)

I promise you that "no interest same as cash" promotion on a new tv is just a giant temptation you don't need that will fuck you up 5 years from now.

Dont do it!

Get fat and think diet isnt important. Ditch excessive drinking, smoking and eating unhealthy foods.

You may not appreciate health and the value of it in your 20s but by your 40s you will. Clean living doesnt gaurantee health but does minamise the risks of many future health complications.

You only have one body so look after it.

Using credit too much

I don't know each person's stage of development or their own personal ambitions, so I will just state my regrets and hope maybe they can resonate with someone. I wish I had taken charge of my mental well-being in my early 20s. I lost a good five years of my life to misery and not progressing as a person. That is a good chunk of my life gone that could have been some of the best years of my life. If you're hurting inside and it's holding you back from being the person you want to be then please find someone who can help you. There are so many resources out there to help you push through the bad stuff, even when it seems like it might be impossible.

Not putting money in your company’s 401k. AT LEAST enough for the company match

Not making a career path for yourself. You need to start retirement now. If you just work jobs through your 20's with no goal in sight: you will be flat broke and live your life in apartments that suck that you can barely afford, possibly move back in with family, have crappy transportation or a nice vehicle that you can barely afford, have no vacation time to do as you please (but it won't matter because you won't have the money for a vacation), and sooner or later you will get hurt and your medical expenses will suck you dry.

Find a career that you can do that is feasible, and put away money into retirement. Buy a house. Don't waste your money on a nice looking car. The insurance will be too expensive, and you aren't fooling anyone. People will look at you like you fucked up your life for 5-7 years when you get that loan. You don't look cool in your flashy car. You look like a bad decision on wheels. Also, don't lift your stupid truck. You are taking your money and throwing it in the garbage. It does nothing for you but cost you money that you could spend on improving your quality of life or investing in your future. There's a really good chance you don't even need a truck. You don't have anything to tow around besides more bad decisions. You're wasting money on gas that you will never get back every single day. Don't spend so much time worrying about what you drive. Nobody will see you in it, and when they do, they won't care. There are millions of motor vehicles. Yours is not special, and it won't last forever. You will never get a dime in return for the loan, because you will drive that thing into the ground by the time you pay it off and every mile you drive adds maintenance costs and decreases the value.

As early as possible, treat your ears like they’re gold. Tinnitus is maddening. Ear. Plugs.

Damn good advice here.

ENJOY THE RIDE. Yes, you should avoid racking up debt, having kids for the wrong reasons, or marrying the wrong person, but also don’t forget to have fun. The older you get the easier it is to find yourself trapped within the confines of routine.

So go take risks. Ask the girl/guy out, take that job out of state, go back to school - or drop out for that matter. Hit your 30’s with dirt under your finger nails and enough scraps and scars to know you gave your 20’s the best you had to offer.

Man this thread is completely lost. If anything do what you want now, spend money and do something you and your loved one will remember. Once your dead nothing matters, so live your life while you can. I understand planning for a future is important but if you spend all your life planning for that and never do anything you will miss out on everything.

I robbed an ambulance. Don’t do that.

How did that go for you?

What did you steal???

Making career/moving decisions based on relationships that were more meaningful in my head than in real life.

Credit cards

Not having kids because you like your life the way it is. This was me in my 20’s. Really enjoyed life. Didn’t realize that for many couples having kids takes a lot more time than you think. Fertility issues and miscarriages happen to most (at some point). You can’t fully plan and control and while kids take away your old life and all fun, they replace it with joy and love I never imagined we’re possible.

Marrying your highschool sweetheart.

Falling in love, believing he is the one, then compromising on your own career to marry him and have a kid, only then for him to abandon an innocent wife and a child to marry someone else.

Getting convicted of a crime and going to prison or being in and out of prison.

Even if you clean up your act, the likelyhood of getting a good job and escaping poverty are super slim.

Get a suspended license, drive on said suspension, get pulled over multiple times, more tickets [debt]. On top of that keep buying junker cars to keep driving, and then eventually rear ending a brand new truck about to be sold... Oh and debt/being sued.

Sadly some people never learn...

Not investing or matching their 401k from their first jobs.

Spending more than they make.

Even having a spreadsheet budget on Microsoft excel is better than not budgeting at all

Not starting company's. Worrying about failure, when failure is critical to success.

As a 19yo, I'm starting to get spooked!

Then you’re doing it right! This is a good sign that you’ll be A-OK.

Wasting time, taking it easy for far too long. Its ok if you dont want to go to college right out of high school and it's ok if you want to put off all responsibilities for a while. But there comes a point where you have to enter adulthood. Otherwise you'll be 30 years old, with nothing going for you but "potential". Having potential when your 21 is great. It's kind of cute. But if that's all you got when you're 30, you're like an ugly man child. And at that point in your life your brain is already wired up the way it'll pretty much always be. So the odds of you turning your life around after 30 is not impossible but still pretty slim.

To put it short, learn to handle responsibilities in your twenties and don't put things off till your 30s.

Not studying for a test/exam when you have loads of time and instead procrastinating and doing nothing productive.

Following your highschool sweetheart across country only to find out he is a cheating bastard.

Credit cards - don't do it!

Not budgeting properly or planning ahead.

Student loans

👆 This. X 1000.

Give your best effort at work, but don't enslave yourself to make some asshole a bunch of money.

SAV YOUR MONEY. Start a 401k. Invest. Plan for the future.

smoke, drink too much, eat unhealthy food

Booze, drugs, crazy women, imprudent financial decisions....

Well I’m in my 25 about to be going 26 and one thing I highly recommend is watching your junk food diet.... brother and sister always told me to watch what I eat and I always ignored them, but fast forward 3-4 years and I have severe IBS and my days revolve around how my stomach feels.. like right now. The other thing is to watch out for how much you spend for sure! Luckily this is the only thing I’m good at thanks to my Jewish and Persian side. Build up that credit score!!

Getting 2 DUI’s, really inconveniencing to finding employment and rules out Canada for the next 10 years

As with any age, suicide

Letting drinking or drug use sneak into a habit that spins out of control, quickly.

i mean.... dui

For anyone wanting to find some good, in-depth, advice on how to organise yourself to try and make something of your life: I recommend watching some lectures on Youtube by Jordan Peterson.

He is a little controversial, but mostly for his input in the gender politics sphere. In terms of self-organisation, taking responsibility for, and creating meaning in, your own life, he has some very useful things to say, imo.

Marriage. Report me if you want, but if you are going to legally bind yourself to someone, make sure it’s someone you can trust with every facet of your life that you are willing to share, and you’re willing to see them every day of your life.

Why would people report you? That’s a pretty good answer honestly. I see 20 year olds building houses with their wife all the time when I worked drywall and I was like WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

Not investing early. $500 at age 22 becomes $1.763 million at age 57. Invest when you’re young, retire early.

Also, I made those numbers up, but the point they illustrate is true. If you’re too lazy to look up the power of compounding interest, this tip isn’t for you.

As a twenty year old male, I never take pictures. Not of me, not of my friends. We just didn’t, not sure why.

But then one of my best friends took his own life, we were saddened to find we hardly had any pictures together.

So this advice is two fold. One: take care of your mental health, it’s important, get help if you need. Talk to people. And two: take some damn pictures, you’ll be thankful that you did

Investing in the wedding, yet not the marriage.

Do not get married before age 30. People in their 20s don't even know or understand themselves yet, much less know and understand their future spouse. Have fun in your 20s and don't even think about getting married or having a kid until age 30. You'll have more money, be more stable and your kid and your marriage will start out with a much higher chance of success.

Biggest mistakes people can make in their 20's? Easy...

*Asking random people for advice.

*Only worsened by asking Reddit for advice.

*Only more worsened by asking Yahoo Answers for advice.

*Only even more worsened by asking Tumblr for advice.

*Only even way more like almost fully worsened by asking 4Chan for advice.

*Only even like way totally more like way past almost fully extreamly mega worseneder by taking any of my advice.

The number 1 biggest mistake you could make would be to not pay or to cheat on your taxes. The IRS will find you, they will take EVERYTHING you have, if that does not satisfy them they only have an amount they can leave you with, not what they can take. If that does not satisfy them they will imprison you. And even still once paid off you will be audited every few years for the rest of your life.

Mainlining ketamine into your dick

My kind of person

Getting married too soon to your first "true love" without giving time for the rush of emotions to cool off.

Hey the first great love of your life may be the one but if so waiting a couple of years to get hitched won't foil that.

Not investing a portion of their income. If you starting investing and saving in your 20s you'll be well off in te decades to come. Compounded returns can do amazing things.

Thinking they still have a good twenty years before their body starts breaking down.

Holy fuck. I'm 22 years old and feel depressed reading this thread.

Not to learn programming. Programming is the new literacy.

Shitty tattoos

Being so engrossed in college and getting your life together that you forget to appreciate and spend time with your family. When I started college my niece was 9. She's graduating high school this year and I never got to spend the time with her that I wanted to while she was growing up. Her teenage years are almost gone and I'm the aunt that sent birthday cards but never visited. I missed so much time with my family in general.

The illusion of time is dangerous, y'all.

Ignore your mental health issues.

Killing themselves, luckily i had my brother to save my life but there are many others not so lucky out there.

Abusing loans, credit cards, not paying your Bill's, ect. My biggest mistake is blowing off my financial obligations between 18-23. I didn't get tons of credit cards but I did let medical bills go to collections, I think I have an old cellphone bill, tons of student loans. Just pay your shit.

A wise man told me, “ Having a kid”, and I think he’s right.. Got into a lot graduate schools, I can leave tomorrow.. No family to worry about.

Not taking care of your ears. I abused mine with loud music starting in my 20s, now I've lost enough hearing at 48 to have trouble understanding people when we converse.

Jumping into something without researching the fuck out of it. Knew a girl whose boyfriend confessed to being into BDSM and figured it was basically like Fifty Shades without all the money. Now he's in jail, her whole body is covered in scar tissue (mostly her ass where he continuously whipped her with a leather strap until she bled, and she's suffering PTSD and a fear of men and loud noises.

Not taking birth control seriously and having babies while still living with mom and dad.

Drugs... Ill just stop when I'm 25 and ready to get my shit together... But then you don't.

Being stuck in a bad career path. You have time to find something you like and can grow into.

Not start saving money early or building credit.

Ruin your credit.

The biggest mistake was to get a dog so damn late!

Not taking chances to make mistakes.

Not learning from them.

See, when you have to take responsibility for your mistakes, you learn to fix them. And you get "burnt" and physically know what it means.

All those hard long-term teeth, exercise, savings... you can't experiment them before it's too late. You need something to ground them in reality.

Don't lend money to people who you know are a financial risk. I stupidly lent a friend around $700-900 so he could come traveling with me and a group of friends. Even my own mother said "don't lend him money as he probably won't pay you back" but I ignored her.

Weeks following I'd thought he would do the right thing and start paying me back as I didn't have much money of my own left. He didn't. I went out with some friends one night for a drink and he shows up and he's at the bar buying cocktails and expensive drinks, chain smoking and living it up. After a few weeks I had to pull him aside and say " Hey dude could you start paying me back? I lent you a bunch of money and need you to start paying me back as I need it back" He gave me a sort of 'What? you need it back already? I didn't think it was a big deal' reply. He lived in a strange world where he thinks people who save their money have endless supplies and he sort of exists in some kind of whimsical world of adventure where there's no consequences.

Now he's in his mid thirties and while he's spent the last 15 years traveling around the world thinking he's Huck Finn but has never finished any of his college degrees he's started and dropped out of, has no money saved, no collateral, been in debt with the banks for years and has never worked a career based job. The kind of life that's cool when you're 21 but is pretty sad when you're approaching 40.

im only 26 but let me tell you what I wish I knew/did sooner:

-take care of my health by going to the dentist more often (not just every 2 years) and getting a regular care physician with regular checkups and what not

-going to the gym or just working out/moving your body in general. I sit a lot now at a desk job and boy has it caught up with me. i struggle with this on the daily

-managing your finances. monitor your spending, learn to be frugal and take care of you bills first and foremost. stop saying "treat yourself" as an excuse to spend money you don't have. If you have credit cards only use them if you need to and PAY THEM OFF

-go to school and learn new skills whenever you can. you can always learn something new and you never know when you might need those skills for a new job or something.

-respect your parents

I am amazed not more comments about "Not travelling and seeing the world".

Cheap working and backpacking holiday around the world... very doable with minimal savings. The happiest most centred people I know did this. They learnt about the world and themselves and found perspective that helped them make good and informed decisions in the future.

Advice on "save and exercise" is still great but TBH if you haven't worked out why you wanna do that then it aint worth shit.

Wasting your energy, money, time, and health on cigarettes

A degree that won’t land you a job.

Student loans that come due 6 months after graduation, how much they will be a month, that they are post-tax, and that you can never get rid of them.

BUying a gaming notebook for 3500$ Buying a kitchen knife for 400 Buying Shoes you never wear Basicly buying shit, I wasted my money and now I have no money left :(

Not saving for your future.

Marriage.

Not cutting toxic people off far longer than necessary

As a guy, when I was coming up in a mostly Hispanic neighborhood, attending a mostly Hispanic high school, I remember all the guys wanted to get money to buy a hot ride, even well into our 20s, I'd meet up with old driving their Camaros and new pick up trucks, what did I do? I bought my first house when I was around 25 years of age!

Re-enlisting in the Army.

1) Deprive yourself of sleep: I had a really unhealthy sleep schedule for over 5 years. I recently switched it because it started to depress me. Sleep became dreamless and did not refresh me. I could sleep for 13 hours without an effect. Going to bed just 3 hours earlier each night instantly made me feel great, refreshed and 8 hours of sleep are enough for me. Makes your days greater and longer, brighter and happier. Sure partying is nice but theres a time for it, but its not healthy to do it everyday.

2) Make yourself older than you are : Alot of people in their mid twenties complain about being old, feeling old. Don't be that guy. Use your energy, laugh and be silly. You are far from being old.

3) Neglect your body: By this I don't mean you should work out like crazy and be really fit. You can be chubby and that is just right if you don't feel bad. I am talking about brushing your teeth, showering, seeing the doctor from time to time. Alot of health issues like rotten teeth, bad backs etc. can make your future really tiresome. Maybe you just need to get a new chair or a little massage. Just take care of yourself.

4) Smoking : Really, I have been smoking a pack a day for 6 years. I stopped in my twenties and I could not be happier. The first two weeks were quite a challenge but not as aweful as everyone described it. Once you get past the first month it becomes a blessing. You will feel cleaner, healthier and have ALOT more money to buy things you enjoy that won't cripple your health. I see how smoking is not just "to be cool" but actually quite a pleasing activity, but if you feel the urge to smoke just compensate it by getting a coffee or something small, it really works. It is true, I gained around 7 kilos since stopping but that is FAR more healthy than inhaling cancerous smokes. Plus I was very thin before so now I am actually at a healthy weight.

Most girls don't give a shit about what car you drive, spend that money on something else

I might be preaching to the choir...but take care of your damn body. Alcohol, fast food, fried food, snacking til 3 am, and don't get me started on sugar. Sodas and all that...."We're young, young bodies" Just because you may look okay or feel okay doesn't mean you are okay. My sisters eats like shit, and she always says her stomach hurts and stuff like that. I juice, do smoothies (with veggies), don't drink sodas, desserts in moderation, and plently of water. I physically feel great and energized.

25 y/o Female here. Went through my feeling like shit for a few years, gained 20 lbs after school then turned my life around. Just in time, baby!

Great job! I've started being healthy all around since the last couple of days and I plan to keep it going :)

Eating well and getting out of bad childhood habits of eating cheap, crap food all the time. Took me till I was 30 to do something about it, lost 100lbs and feel sooo much better. I wish I had done it much earlier.

For college students, If you want to get a technical major don't settle. I'm in biology right now applying to sales and finance but once upon a time your boy had engineering dreams and just didn't study hard enough.

Also take as many fun elective classes as you can. I've taken upper division photography classes, digital music making, opera singing lessons, worked in nsf labs, and hopefully am going to squeeze in a welding certification.

[deleted]

They say forgiveness is not a gift for who was at fault.

But a present for the forgiver, because it lifts a weight off the forgiver's shoulders.

Not quitting smoking.

It’s not hard, but it is. I can do it whenever, but I never do.

Just. Stop.

Hate your life for a month, then bask in the accomplishment for years and years. You’ll thank yourself, and love yourself.

Getting a criminal record.

Credit. Card. Debt.

Get into lots of debt by buying a fancy car. Never get into debt for a depreciating asset.

Eating like shit everyday. I found out the hard way that I should be eating more fruits and vegetables when I got a gallstone attack after eating chicken fingers and fries.

Oh and know your families health history. Really wish my dad would have told me he had his stones removed at 23 because his diet didn’t include vegetables.

Dang dude sorry to hear. I've been eating healthy as of late and have been getting some exercise too and I feel great! I'm 19 so I think this is the best time for me to start getting and staying in healthy from here on out.

Stop reading.

Hey, I get it - you finish school, you start your career, get some kids or dogs or husband or another responsibility, you get into Netflix or video games, and the books just get lost in all of this.

But don't do it. Books calm the mind, teach empathy and understading different points of view, they don't keep you awake at night like smatphones or PCs, and they foster good communication skills (unlike social media).

Not doing what you want/need early on because you are worried about other peoples opinion/reaction.

Later on you realise people don’t really give a shit, they just talk shit, thats all.

So do whatever makes you happy!

Not saving any money. Soon it will be too late.

Right. I'm 19 and haven't spent on much last couple of weeks besides necessities of course (groceries, hygiene stuff).

Not saving money.

Staying at a job you hate while also having a low salary because of convenience

Late to the party but one thing you really need to do in your 20's is BALANCE your life : Take care of your skin, teeth, health. Workout Regularly, Go out with friends, play video games, study, do everything you can because you have time to do it. Try to be less shy, try to seduce girls, believe in yourself, enjoy those glorious years because once they're gone, they're gone forever. You'll never be able to go to a night club again and get your one night stand, you'll never be as strong when it comes to sport... Enjoy and balance your life, do everything, sleep too though. Godspeed

try to seduce girls

(°ロ°)☝

Uhhh I don't think that is the best idea ya feel?

it is ! nothing better than getting girls when you're young ! then, when you find the one, you don't regret !

Okay haha I could see your point but I'm saying is that could come off kinda creepy to some people lol. But glad you enjoy that (☞ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞

Quit your bad behaviours like smoking or excessively drinking. You can regenerate most of your lungs in your 20s before getting irreversible damage. Also for a week manage your time. How much do you lie in bed (nit sleeping), how much it takes you to do chores and eating and stuff. You will realize you have a shitton of time and feel bad for wasting most of your time. Get your ass up and do something. Like a major or 2. Go get fit. Do whatever your heart desires. Your 20s is the time to be the bravest you can be.

Thank you for this. I'm 19 and I plan on being more active from now on. I'm sick of just being a lazy bum and eating crappy foods.

Saved

Don't waste your youth sitting in an office because it makes financial sense.

Take out a loan for a 'friend'....you will live with that bad decision for seven years

Marrying a wrong person and having kids with them.

Worrying too much about life/the future. You're supposed to enjoy yourself and be beautiful in your twenties.

"I'll do it tomorrow / next week / next month, etc. I'm too busy."

EDIT: "I'll see you tomorrow / next week / next month, etc. I'm too busy." :(

Not travelling enough.

I hit 50 different countries visited just after I turned 30, have visited roughly 30 of the US states (I'm from the UK), been all over Asia and still feel like I haven't travelled enough. I'd also advise anyone that can to live abroad - I haven't done it yet and feel a little like I've missed an opportunity.

TRAVEL. AND WORK LESS.

Not enjoying themselves while they can. Staying in and scrimping so they can scrape together enough money to buy a shitty 10 year old car or a deposit on a tiny house. I am approaching 40 and your late 30s are shit. If I go out 3 times a year now I am doing well and it takes me a week to get over it. 10 years ago I was going out 3 times a week. Granted, if I sacrificed all of that I would have a slightly nicer home or car by now but who gives a fuck. I'll work hard now when I have nothing better to do and the experience to earn more anyway.

"Do or Don't do. There's no such thing as try." - Always put 100% into everything you do.

"Look before you leap." - think before you act.

"A faint heart never won a fair maiden" - being introverted is just a way of hiding. Everyone one of us is beautiful so let yourself shine and most importantly take risks.

And lastly remember the buddhist five remeberances, it'll help you make the most of every second.

  1. I'm of a nature to get sick. There's no way of avoiding this.

  2. I'm sure to become old. I can't avoid aging.

  3. I'm sure to die. I cannot avoid death.

  4. I must be separated and parted from all that is dear and beloved to me.

  5. I am the owner of my own actions and heir to my actions. Whatever actions good or bad I shall become their heir.

Retirement! Start saving for retirement now.

This is probably going to be buried but I didn't see it in the top comments

so true. I wish i had. My wife did all the way along and her retirement funds are looking good. I focused on paying the house off instead and didn't and now at 47 regret that i didn't put something back. I've been saving cash ISA's instead in recent years to try to catch up.

Not saving money. Even if it’s $50 per check. Put some damn money aside.

They try to please everyone.

Not quitting smoking. You'll quit when you're in your 40s and you'll feel angry as to why you didn't do it in your 20s

Start working on your passions, your dreams and DON’T EVER STOP!! I used to write music, short stories, poetry. I used to make art ever day of my life until I got put on a prescription for Wellbutrin & then Paxil as well. I had all kinds of problems with my family and this addiction of sorts to this stimulant anti-depressant that made my depression far worse. I lost a lot of friends and tried to kill myself a couple times. I still played mandolin and wrote some poems, raps, stuff like that but I eventually stopped. I was watching Punch Brothers do their NPR Tiny Desk Concert a couple months ago & I thought to myself “I used to live and breathe music. I loved this so much.” I started crying and had a mini meltdown. Also keep exercising. Everyone tells you to go experience new things and learn about yourself, LEARN HOW TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF. A lot of the human condition in America is about this useless competition where you have to have “The Spouse” or “The House” or “The Degree” Fuck that shit dude. Set reasonable goals and stick to them. I lost my 20s to some dark & gnarly shit. Be safe and don’t let people take advantage of you. Sorry for the rambling. It was hard to fit all that I wanted to say in one comment.

Continuing to do a job you hate because it pays well instead of going back to school for something you might enjoy (that isn't something like trying to start a rap career looking like Elijah Wood and sounding like Elijah Wood).

Worst case, you can find another shitty job you hate and work at it while you wait to die if your passions don't play out, best case you'll excel in a job you love and move up in a career you don't mind spending your life doing. Doubly good if you can leave a positive legacy

Partying and drinking too much. There are so many other awesome things to focus on and get better at before you hit 30. Unfortunately, I only figured that out at 28.

Mistaking what you do for your identity. Your career does not define you or make up who are.

imo not going to school until my 30's was by far the worst decision i've made in my life overall

the negative effects of that decision have been far reaching and now it's much more difficult to do since I've taken on adult responsiblities

Open a Roth IRA and pay yourself first. The money you put in during you late teens and 20's will just about match the money you put in over the next 30 years. That's the magic of compounding interest; the earlier you start, the (significantly) more it will be worth.

Compromising who you want to be to please someone else. Seriously, find your happiness then find someone that compliments that life. Not the other way around. I made so many mistakes in my 20s.

Staying in a toxic relationship just because you're afraid of letting go.

Having kids too soon, getting married, not travelling, not respecting yourself

To not start and maintain good habits as early as possible.

Doesn't matter what the habits are - as long as they are good. Good money management, good fitness, good friends, good routine... whatever.

Once you hit thirty, it seems like anything related to 'change' becomes many times more difficult. They aren't kidding when they say it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

I’m 27... and I need to do all of this. I hope I can do it.

  1. Fear of failure

  2. Living by the same rules as from high school

  3. Fear of change

  4. Fear of judgement

  5. Letting the past rule your future.

Start a pension. Seriously. You might think retirement is years away but starting a pension early means you can look forward to it, rather than dread it. As someone who is fast approaching retirement age with inadequate pension provision, I wish someone had told me this when I first started working.

waste time on relationships that aren’t worth it. it’s okay to be single.. not everyone in a relationship is happy or even content, regardless of what it looks like on social media. it’s actually more lonely to be in a terrible relationship than to just be alone.

Eating poorly because they are very active and burn it off.

When you get older and have a tiring job and a family, the time for activity may well drop significantly. Combined with a slowdown in your metabolism you will end up fat and unhealthy if you don't know how to eat a decent balanced diet.

Learn the fundamentals now: How to cook the basics, what kinds of food are high in salt, sugar and fat, and how many calories you eat against how many you burn at rest.

Getting addicted to any sort of substances (cigarettes, alcohol, drugs). Watch out for using those things as a form of escapism -- face your fears and triggers head on without them.

Invest in long lasting moments, meaningful experiences, memories, stuff that will define you as a person, rather than fill time /voids.

My friend went out every weekend in his twenties, bought brand new cars, making almost twice as me.

Started my 20s with a 3 week trip to France, had odd jobs that led to a career in my late twenties. Never worried about making payments, bills, etc, but spent on life experiences (and music gear). Still got those sweet instruments to show for 20 years later.

not goddamn living. you have lots of time to make mistakes and fix them right now. Get out and do something crazy. drop everything and travel. enjoy it before responsibility kicks in

Huge car payments, have a coworker who says he only buys brand new cars. Gets a car for $550 a month, rationalizes it by saying it's less than his house payment. Well no duh, I would kind of hope so.

Acting like your friends, and following the advice of late Nate Dogg: smoking weed everyday. That shit really messes you up. No matter how much your friends tell you about how it's supposedly not physically addictive, only psychologically, which makes it ok, or how much they tell you all the smart cool artists do it, or the other ways they later try to keep you in that circle.. when they're not calling anymore when you quit smoking, they were never your friends. Just colleague druggies. If you smoke it with tobacco, it's obviously physically bad for you. But even if you smoke 'pure' it's going to mess some people up internally.

Source: am dutch. It was almost as easy to get by as alcohol was ever since I was 16.

You can still smoke every day and be a responsible adult. It's all about balance. Don't smoke so much it interferes with work, relationships etc and certainly don't go broke buying it. Treat it with responsibility and it's no different than grabbing a beer after work.

Have to disagree. I am one who can not. Also, grabbing a beer after work every day, I also consider a bad habit.

Just because you personally aren't able to balance it doesnt make it bad that just means you don't have the control.

Credit if any kind if you can’t afford it don’t get credit to buy it as you’ll end up paying more than you should.

A tattoo too large or too conspicuous to hide.

I'm in my twenties so I'll highlight some mistakes I see friends making

  • Never being sober

  • Eating out too much

  • Going from partner to partner rather than building a relationship

  • Impulse purchasing

  • Getting into physically dangerous situations

  • Poor eating habits (I'm in this one too)

Shooting themselves in the face. Most other things can be fixed.

It's about what is replaceable. Money can be replaced. It can be made and spent again and again. Time happens once. Once time is gone, it's gone. Life said above, time has infinite value.

Moving in with friends. It always seems like a good idea. I know you want to be out on your own, but the quickest way to lose a friend is to live with them.

Dropping out or deferring your undergrad because you can't handle it.

I mean, it might be stressful to juggle a job and attached classes and do the readings - but when you have decided on your career path, the sooner you start on it, the better it gets later.

My experience has been that the tough things like deaths and job losses and illnesses brought us closer together.

I totally agree with you that my husband and I are fundamentally the same people we have always been. Neither of us had easy lives while kids though - perhaps that matured us earlier than others. I also think a major factor in the longevity of our marriage is that we came from families who stayed together despite everything.

Glad to hear that you have a similar marriage. A strong marriage is a neverending blessing - though that doesn't mean it's always a walk through the park as I am sure you know.

Nobody on his deathbed is thinking "Man, I wish I had spent more time at the office!"

Not putting away for retirement. Not sure why this was mentioned yet. There are entirely too many boomers that cant afford to retire because they thought all these pensions and social security would pan out. You need to save for yourself with your own money in your own 401K or IRA. If you pass up on your employers 401k match you are passing up FREE money. Legit free money.

Dating people who are "ok for now". Find someone you really want to be with, even if it means being alone for a while.

Reddit.

Most of this website is junk and porn. Get a fucking life.

My biggest mistake, and one that all young people seem to make, was thinking that I had all the time in the world to do the things I wanted to do in life. It's not true you don't have time and old age and the consequences of your choices come faster than you think they will. Money isn't everything and you can never get that time back.

I'm 24 and while my bills are paid monthly, I'm realizing that I've got some extravagant expenses that are completely unnecessary. If I didn't have them, I'd likely be able to do way more traveling and hiking, which is all I really want to do anymore. In short, keeping up with the Joneses isn't worth it.

Not understanding when it's ok to cut people off or keep poor relationships going. You are so free in your 20s and you still look youthful which is the biggest miss if you don't manage your time right, especially job seeking and starting a career. Ageism is alive and well without an end in sight.

Take risks, play sports, be social, date.

A lot of the advice here is certainly good and I agree of course with financial wisdom and dentistry and all that.

But also your 20's is your physical and social prime and you want to use that. You don't want to spend it all sitting on your ass.

The whole "sowing wild oats" cliche is exaggerrated too often but like a lot of cliches, there is truth in it. Whatever/whomever you're into it, explore and have fun.

Be active- I mean of course you should always be active but now is the time before you get weird old person ailments like back pain and hernias.

I turned 40 and then my knees started bothering me and the doctor tells me my cartiledge is disintegrating and I'm like "oh no how'd that happen?!" and he's like "dude you're 40."

So if you wanna try rock climbing or whatever, do that now before your knees or whatever team up with temporal mechanics to betray you.

Thinking you have to go to college to be successful. If you don’t know what you want to do don’t spend 80000 dollars while trying to figure it out. Get a shorter cheaper certification/training while you feel out what you are good at. Bar tending, welding, Emt. Stuff like that. College is a huge gamble if you don’t know what you want to do and it’s very difficult. If you don’t have passion towards your subject you will have a hard time finding the will power to complete your degree.

Not finding valuable friendships when I was in high school/college/early 20s is a huge mistake I made. Sure, I had “friends”. But they were only there to drink or get something from me. If I wanted someone to talk to during a rough patch or someone to go hiking with they weren’t interested.

Find good habits and things you find fun- and the “good” people will find you. Get out there and try new things. Making real friends as an adult can be really difficult... especially if the ONLY thing you’re used to doing with friends is getting wasted.

— This is coming from a 25 year old- so I’m sure someone else has better advice on this matter.

It's possible to meet wonderful people throughout your life. Friendships evolve over time. You will not be the same person 20 years from now. Source: a 46-year-old. Ugh.

Not figuring out what you like/want to do. By the time you're 30 people are going to want to start listening to you. You should pick something that is interesting to you and be good at that thing. Take what other people think out of the equation. If you like being a garbage man or if you like making burritos at taco bell. Do that, and be good at it.

You're going to have to work. It might as well be something you enjoy. And don't be afraid to enjoy something that other people might think is unappealing. This is your life.

Getting married to the wrong person.

Not saving for retirement. Even it is $10 a week, when you hit my age (middle 50s) with good investments and compound interest, you can have a million dollars.

The biggest mistake I made in my 20s was not making enough mistakes to learn from.

Doing things just because they seem to be what you're supposed to do. I'm amazed at how many people get married and have kids in their 20s. I'm in my thirties and not ready for that stuff yet.

The main ones:

Making the wrong friends, having a child you didn’t explicitly plan, hardcore drugs, drinking and driving.

Things like not working through college or running credit card debt are fixable. The above isn’t. A lot of the upvoted things here are fixable.

Not working full time at the best job you can find, get used to and tolerate, and saving as much as the money as you can. With the cost of living on your own, however, people in their 20's being more carefree on average compared to older age brackets, and lots of young people racking up major debt in college, this is easier said than done. For example, I think if someone stays out of college and out of debt as a whole, and worked full time in entry-level manufacturing at the age of 20 and invested it right, by 30 they'd be sitting on over $100,000 minimum; that's enough for a good used car and a small house, with some money leftover-- so if you don't want to travel, don't have debt, and don't have family obligations, two of your major life expenses are out of the way at age 30 with retirement money, or money for children, depending on your goals, to spare. But obviously you won't have true access to that investment if its in a Roth IRA or 401k because the con of them being tax shelters is you can't withdrawal penalty free until you are almost 60 years old.

Letting fear stop you from pursuing your dreams. I've watched so many people around me stagnate in their lives to avoid the unknown.

Also, holding on to relationships with narcissistic family members. Going no contact with my mother changed my life and I will always wish I had done it sooner

Why did you go with no contact with your mother? Just curious because I'm in a similar situation.

She was abusive all through my childhood, and it took me till I was 15 to move out, and till I was 17 to go full no contact. Even after I moved out and got emancipated I attempted to maintain a relationship with her because I truly believed she wanted to change and be a part of my life; however, I realized that the "changes" she was making were superficial and designed to make me doubt my memories of the abuse (a kind of gaslighting) and/or to lull me into trusting her in some capacity so she could hurt me more. She was, and still to this day is, obsessed with having power over me and invalidating my ability to make my own decisions. The breaking point for me to go full no contact with her was when she started contacting my employers trying to get me fired so i would have to rely on her again. I cannot recommend r/raisedbynarcissists enough as a resource for anyone going through this kind of thing and if you ever want someone to talk to about your situation feel free to pm me

Developing a drinking or drug habit.

It can happen a lot easier than you think. So many workplaces have a culture where getting drinks after work is almost expected. One of my good friends had a reality check recently when she realized it wasn't normal to get 4-5 drinks after work everyday and only feel a little buzzed.

Same goes for drugs like Adderall and Cocaine. Super popular in the professional world. If you work at a younger company I can almost guarantee you this is happening on some level. Adderall in particular becomes a problem because it's initially used as a tool, a way to get work done. Then for some people it becomes a recreational thing. Blow has a similar pattern, but isn't used for work nearly as much as pleasure.

You don't want to exit your 20's with a substance problem.

Remember to always try to be healthy, try doing sit up and push ups and normal exercise at home before you shower at night and go to bed. That'll help you be healthier and in a better physical state. Biggest mistake is also getting into smoking and eating unhealthy by the daily, it make be cheaper at that moment, but in the long run you're gonna regret it. Also don't get whipped, not till you're about 27. Experiment a lot and always use protection.

In regards to a reply you got earlier, you actually burn more calories running over walking.

2.0 mph - 91

2.5 mph - 87

3.0 mph - 85

3.5 mph - 83

4.0 mph - 91

4.5 mph - 102

5.0 mph - 116

Running

5.0 mph - 116

6.0 mph - 121

7.0 mph - 119

8.0 mph - 123

9.0 mph - 121

10.0 mph - 131

You're burning that much calories in an hour or how much time? Sorry just not fully understanding your comment :p

I mean, it all depends on the speed you're walking at. If you're walking at 10 miles an hour, then you're gonna finish the mile faster then if you're walking at 2 mph.

Ah I see. Thank you for your explanation! :)

Not caring about /destroying your credit.

I did this, not really caring about how it would impact my life. it took me all of my 30's to resolve, pay off, wait for dropoffs, and paying way too high-interest rates to rebuild my credit to a decent score

Getting senseless tattoos. Word of advice, kick around the idea for a year or so. I did that with mine, and even my first one that I got at 19 still holds meaning to me.

Getting married too soon. Wait until you are established in your career and have some resources accumulated. Also you are a much different person in your late 20s and beyond than you were at 19 or 20.

its not that we are entering a recession, major news outlets recently admitted theyre closing down Citizen support.

Not taking care of your body. It's the only one you get and parts wear out or break over time.

Getting credit cards or making big purchases (house) before they have a firm financial footing.

Source: Me (mistakes I made in my 20s)

Y’know, these replies remind me that I’m not alone. And if we all suffer alone, why don’t we.. “suffer” together? Can we turn this around to something positive?

PM me for a one-on-one pity party! :)

Here's another one: if you are extraordinarily beautiful or handsome now, remember it won't be forever! You'd better develop a personality and be kind to those around you. Once your looks go, if that's the only thing you had going for you you're going to be a very lonely person.

Using credit cards irresponsibly

I had a 30th birthday party when I was 29 after a slight math/memory fail.

No one noticed until my eldest sister happened to add it up from my DOB and break the news..

I'm not a stoner or an idiot, I just never cared about that stuff.

Not opening a retirement account ASAP once you get your first job with benefits.

I waited until I was just over 30. My account is at a healthy level now ten years later, but it would have been much higher if I'd opened it sooner.

Being a dickhead

People in their 20's care too much about what others think. I mean, who are you living your life for? Don't pay any attention to the opinion of others. Yours counts.

Staying in a place where they're not happy, because it's familiar and it's where their friends and parents live. Not everyone has to do some big, cross-country move in their 20's, and moving is hardly ever easy, but this is the best time to pack up and go live where you've always wanted to live. Once you get married (or even move in with an SO), have kids, and/or buy property, moving to your dream city will be much more complicated.

I live in Boston, and I love it here and I don't mind the snow, but I know people who hate it and complain every time we get so much as an overnight coating, and loudly long for beach weather. Winter weather here can start around Thanksgiving and go through April, that's a lot! If you really need it to be 65 degrees, sunny, with low wind and low humidity to be happy, this really isn't the place for you. I hate to think of my winter-hating peers putting down roots, growing old here and spending roughly half of every year being miserable.

For me it was going to college and not being able to find a job after college and so I fell into business ownership somehow but I am in intense debt because of my schooling and had I not I would not be drowning in it- college isn’t for literally everyone- I didn’t know I would own a business one day- but it’s something I could have happily done without going to school- I hate that everyone is pressured into it just because

I turn 20 tomorrow, so this probably comes at the perfect time for me.

Happy birthday! Yup, just sort by top and read them.

borrow money for education.

thinking there is a timeline for "success" graduation, job, income etc.

having a child

Getting married. If you feel obligated to get married to someone or in any way, shape, or form feel like marriage is going to do anything other than improve your life, either you're marrying the wrong person, you're not ready to be married, or you have a mental situation not conducive to monogamous commitment.

Note that I'm not counseling against marriage. I got married last year and it's the best decision I've ever made.

When they start smoking and drinking and their merger salary goes into that habit. Hard to break, is why I just don’t drink or smoke.

Not contributing to a matching 401k.

Letting someone dictate your worth.

NEVER ALLOW IT.

A: Buying the wrong car. If you can't afford to pay down half a car's value, you can't afford it. If paying half a car's value down wipes out your savings, you can't afford that car.

B: Not using your credit. Even if you only spend 100 bucks a month and pay it all off, it's better than nothing. Credit cards are safer to use than debit, at any rate. Credit card gets stolen or compromised and it's only imaginary money that's closed out to you. If someone steals your debit? That's your money.

C: Not saving. Good lord do not live hand to mouth.

D: Not taking advantage of everything you're due. There's no shame on going on food stamps, and you're just dumb for not taking advantage of your company's investment matching for 401k's.

E: Buying more house than you need. You can deal with having less house than you needed when you were first on the housing market. You can't really deal with buying more house than you need without walking away from it.

F: Not continuing to learn. Just because you have a job doesn't mean you're done.

G: Not staying in any important job for more than a year. Leaving jobs after only 6-12 months signals to everyone else that you either don't like working or that whatever you were doing was so bad that your previous employer let you go after the probationary period.

H: Going to college when you are not interested in college. There's nothing stopping you from going in your 30's. Meanwhile there's plenty of room for growth in the trades. A skilled plumber who's also an engineer can make 'fuck you' money.

Credit cards. They're too easy to get and too easy to use. Debt is a serious problem.

Thinking the college you go to will matter after your first or second job. Going to an expensive school might make you feel good but nobody is going to care in. 5 years and now you have 200k of debt.

Not maintaining enough friendships.

At least, that was my experience. It is incredibly easy to make friends growing up since children have nothing to do except go to school and interact with other kids. Even in college, it's rather easy to make friends because you are surrounded by people in your age group all day, every day.

Making friends in your early to mid 20s is also fairly easy, even if you're as bad at social interactions as I am. People in their 20s have tons of energy and free time and hormones making them pretty outgoing.

As you hit your late 20s, your friends start getting married and having kids or they move away or they just have more responsibility in general. Instead of hanging out with your friends every day like you did in childhood or every week in your early 20s, you start seeing your friends once a month. If they have kids, they need a babysitter or if they've moved, it requires real planning. Once a month turns into once a year in that case.

Personally, I made a good number of friends in my early 20s but a few years into my 30s and I've only acquired a handful of new friends. The rate of making new friends hasn't kept pace with the rate of falling out of touch with people.

It takes a solid investment of time and emotional energy to turn acquaintances into real friends and in my 30s, it can feel like time is running out to make these new valued friendships.

Hopefully you 20 year olds can make a conscious effort to keep your friends close and numerous.

When it comes to working out, is getting in great shape worth all the time or is it a sort of diminishing returns thingy?

I mean you keep working on it. Once you're "in shape" you don't just stop. At least not me.

Not taking charge of your life. Not steering your own ship. Just being a leaf in the wind.

It's easy to wait around for someone to tell you what to do. Every time you wait for someome else's advice, you give your power away.

Rather, start taking on responsibities and making radical decisions for yourself. Start offering value to the world. Be a pioneer and plow into the woods by yourself. You might be pleasantly surprised where you end up.

I'd say, having a kid. If you want a kid, wait until you've established a good long-term job, stored up savings, and figured out what you want from a partner and whether you can live with your partner for a long time first.

According to statistics, having children

Buy a used car. Avoid financing it if possible. Chances are you can set your sights on a car lower than you think you can.

well, i failed my twenties miserably with only 3.5 years left of them....oh and there goes the last of my self esteem...

When your 40 how are you going to look back on your 30s?

Hopefully you can say "my 20s were shit, but my 30s were great"

True. I also don’t remember typing this, so I’m guessing I was drunk and sad, I’m actually doing pretty ok in life

Ok I just looked it up it’s 60oz, I have no clue why we call it 60lbs when it’s not

If you're gonna gamble then do so responsibly.

College

Wow. Im in my mids 20's now

Not caring about your diet and not being smart with your money. BOTH catch up with you!

Keeping hydrated with water and not other substances.

Getting her pregnant

Allowing the adage "I'm an adult and I can do whatever the fuck I want" take control of your life. It can only lead to heartache.

Yes, technically you can do whatever you want now that you're an adult, but being an adult requires discipline and self control. Yes, you can go out to eat every day, eating at the most expensive restaurants, and I'm not talking about the really hoity-toity places; any place where you could easily drop $30 for a 4-course meal (appetizer, salad, entree with two sides, drink, and dessert), but with your decisions comes consequences. That $420 a week you spent on food ($30 for lunch and $30 for dinner, which equals $60 a day, times 7 days) could go towards more useful things, such as rent, utilities, groceries, clothing, gas for your car or fare for local transit, and other things.

Yes, you should enjoy your newfound freedom, but you must also take responsibility for your actions, and plan accordingly. Set yourself a budget and most importantly, STICK TO IT!!! This is the order of importance for what you should pay:

  1. Rent
  2. Utilities (gas, water, electric)
  3. Other bills (cell, cable, Internet, credit cards, car payment)
  4. Gas for car/fare for local transit (to get to and from work)
  5. Groceries
  6. Fun/Misc.

As you can see, fun stuff comes dead last. This includes going out to eat, going to see a movie, going clothes shopping, and other "fun" items.

If there is something you really need or want, start saving. Pinch pennies where you can, but make sure all your debtors are paid, in the order listed. For example, if you need new clothes, set aside a small amount each paycheck until you have enough to buy a few new items. Need a new couch, chair, or mattress? Save your money.

Trust someone who's been there, and still has trouble breaking the habit from time to time. Be careful with your finances. It's OK to treat yourself once in a while, but don't go overboard, and don't make it a routine thing.

Personal finance. Make a budget even if you only have 1 bill. Don't just save. Save for specific goals. Make sure every dollar has a destination before it hits your account otherwise it's way easier to impulse buy with it.

Cash flow is king. This month you might have enough left over to buy that TV you wanted. But on what day of the month can you buy it without impacting you ability to pay a bill on time.

Delayed gratification. When you want something add an artificial delay in the purchase process. Usually a week is enough. If your desire to have that item is diminished after a week, skip it.

Wasting all of your weekends on drinking and being hungover. Dont make it the norm, save it for special occasions. You'll learn more, be healthier, and get more done at work.

Partying and drugs. I wish I could go back and never go to a fucking rave.

Funny but everyone already left the party bro. lol

I only just turned twenty, but when I asked my 60 year old mother, this is what she said:

“Not telling someone you love them. You never know who life may take from you or who may want to say it back. Tell them before it’s too late.”

Watching terrible, mind-numbing TV shows. You become the thoughts you surround yourself with. Most of my friends who binged Keeping Up With The Kardashians have started acting and thinking that way and now they come across as selfish, ignorant people.

Unpopular opinion : have children and get married. I was still learning who I was in my 20s and frankly I despise my early 20 self. It took me awhile to really learn who I was and to see just how much change I went through. Now at 35, I have no desire for children I once thought I wanted and not really focused on getting married. If I did all those things then, I can only wonder if I would actually have been happy.

  • Get married. Be 30 or older. Know who you are. Discover your potential. Move from city to city. Have adventures.

  • Have children. See above. Don't ruin youth for yourself and then try to enjoy the later more difficult years.

  • Not save for retirement. Contribute the maximum from the very first job you work, and never, ever touch the money. Don't ever take a dispersal. Just keep on pouring money in that account. It's the difference between retiring at 45 and retiring at 65.

  • Get tied down. Don't refuse to leave your hometown because you teach a class at the Y or because so and so needs you. Don't let clingy, whiny, dependent people make you feel too guilty to move to a far away place.

  • Own things. If I were 20 again (omg how I wish), I would own a blanket, a bedsheet, a cot, a pillow, my clothes, my PC, my phone, and toiletries. That's it. Pack it all up in the backseat of my car and change cities on a whim. And I would change cities tomorrow, and again the next year. Every year a different city, whether I was waiting tables or working for a fortune 500 company.

This is pretty spot on even though it brought the down votes, lol

Getting married. Not to say it isn't great and it won't work out and you aren't in love. But you are young, and still discovering life.

Also taking out loans without understanding what you are doing.

What if you are stable at 25 my dude?

Always exceptions to the rule.

having any accidental pregnancy and going through with it

Having children.

Getting married and having children.

Cocaine. Speaking of personal experience. Clean in my 30's tho!

Practice safe Sex Never forget condoms or birth control of your choice. STD’s can be life long. Children certainly are.

having kids.

BUT- that applies to having them at any age.

Living in fear of fucking up. Experience life free from fear. Every day know yourself better, love yourself more, and push yourself to be better. Time goes by anyways, the worst thing you can do is wait and let it pass you by.

Get a tattoo of a significant others name/initials.

Not trying to be a Negative Nancy but it's not going to work out.

Thinking your 20's are a decade of party party party let's all get wasted. Your 20's sets up your 30's and your 30's sets up your alley 40's so on and so forth.

that's a shitty way to look at this. when do you ever kick back and enjoy?

I'm not saying you can't have some fun.

Not starting to save for retirement. Compound interest is a hell of a thing.

Biggest mistake? Listening to advice on Reddit!! 99% people here should NOT be giving advice! You are much better off reading books from reputable authors.

NOT having children, thinking that you can always "settle down" and do that later, only to wind up a 40 year old sterile cat lady.

Speaking from experience?

Gaming.

I think Gaming is, after debt and drugs, the worst way to fuck up your 20's.

Everyone is like, "Ah, common, it's not that bad. I am just having a bit fun and it is not even that much."

They all lie. The time you spend gaming you should be either spending on a healthy Lifestyle or on getting yourself ahead. No one can do all three things at the same time. And normally, when gaming is involved not even two.

You will never be pro. No one cares about what you achieved. The friends you find are not as good as friends you find in the real world. (in Terms of availability)

It is all not real. You are wasting your time away.

I am wasting my time away.

But if it's one's hobby, then I believe they can enjoy doing it because we all need a break sometimes.

It is the same as with credits and drugs. A bit can be fine.

But they all have in common that it tends to flip to the bad side super fast.

you burn just as many calories walking a mile as you do running a mile. its lower impact, more time to relax and enjoy your surroundings with mindful intentions, and the same amount of mechanical work. There are other ways to get your heartrate up.

99% of Men should not worry about women. You are invisible to them. Focus on yourself .

And learning the blade

Mastering the blockchain

While you have premarital sex

[deleted]

Your tinfoil hat is showing. Everything is the fault of women. Like, shouldn’t even wasted the rib to make them. Amirite?

/s

[deleted]

Yeah. Probably. Or, could it be you hate women and want to blame someone else for any problem? Probably

[deleted]

Yeah? Wait, was that English? Let me guess, it’s some guy’s fault for letting a woman teach you how to type like you’re at a Taylor Swift concert. I’m starting to see your point

[deleted]

You should be. That was almost as funny as your original comment!

[deleted]

You’re killing it!!! Seriously. I can see you taking this comedy act on the road. “The truth”. Oh man. So good.

You'll be obsolete in 20 years. Better hope you have missing limbs or some other fetish shit a robot can't replicate because otherwise it'll be into the camps with you.

Maybe there will be male sex robots and males will get replaced

That makes no sense. Most females can barely read, let alone build a robot.

Name one literate female. Literally one.

Hey hey! You’ve got a tinfoil hat too!!!

Using drugs other than weed, having kids, getting married, taking on debt.

Alcohol and caffeine?

Only alcohol for some people

Good point. Using drugs other than caffeine and weed.

Not working their butts off. Your 20’s are for working as much and hard as you can so that you can become successful in your 30’s & 40’s and retire in your 60’s (hopefully).

Shitty financial choices, specifically:

  • Taking out debt for stuff you can't afford such as cars, clothes, holidays etc. All these nice things can be yours AFTER you earned enough money, defaulting on even a small loan can seriously fuck your future credit. Don't do it.

  • Do you rent but intend to buy a house later? congratulations you're already paying for the mortgage on your rented place for the landlord and getting no closer to that beautiful house you picture yourself owning in your 40s. Get saving for a deposit

  • Buying a car first. It's a lot easier to save up for the deposit on a property if you don't have car payments, gas and maintenance. Cars don't attract women, they attract other dudes who like cars, in your late 20s and 30s women won't be impressed with that heavily depreciated car, owning an apartment or house however is the hallmark of someone with their financial shit together!

  • No pension contributions. Don't want to have to work in your 70s just to keep a roof over your head, pay medical bills? Want to retire one day? Your going to need money, get contributing towards your future while you can. Don't save with a bank that will gamble your retirement money, save with a institution with a track record of careful, diversified investing

Good luck ya lucky fuckers! - a guy at 30

Don't get married. If a relationship is worth it, you can both wait until your 30s and finally stable. This is from personal experience and hundreds of similar stories, but take it with a grain od salt to each their own.

I agree. Back in the 80’s-90’s, you had to be married for important things, like visiting a sick, injured fiancé in the hospital, or the right to be a healthcare proxy. Now we have laws and protections for a SO.

The person you are in your 20’s is not who you will be in your 30’s. Changing a healthcare proxy is a lot cheaper than a divorce. Adding children into the mix also make for huge bills.

Amen. Great reply

The good thing about havign children when you're 25 is that you will likely have great grandchildren.

? What. Or focus on your own life and then enjoy your own children in your own time and not worry about 2 generations down the road. (Obviously not environmental etc)

Go out and travel, people say it's expensive, but it is no where near as much as you think if you're sensible. Go somewhere like south East Asia, can get flight for like £500, dirt cheap when you're out there and you can even get jobs out there to pay your way if you want to do long term travelling. In your 20s you have no responsibilities, no house, no kids, maybe a car. Just pack up and go if you're bored with life, it's your last chance!

Take care of your credit. It makes renting house that much easier.

Not to mention having control over it and going into an emergency, like dental work and needing 2 grand... and being able to get it with a signature

Kids. Enjoy your best time of life and just make them when you are 30...still enough time.

getting married/having kids. like thats just my personal opinion, i think you should grow up and take care of yourself long enough to know you're stable to start a family.

Having kids out of wedlock.

Not get going in a real career.

Not saving money.

Make someone pregnant

Do something because of peer pressure.

You should do what you think is the best for you. Even though a lot of people do it, it doesn't mean that it's the right one for you.

Thinking you have all the time in the world to do stuff. You don't, work as hard as you can in your 20's so that every decade gets easier. Trust me, the other way isn't fun.

Credit card debt. My wife and I are almost at 6 figures! Then we win something, right?

Wha... how?!?!

I'm not sure how the whole prize thing works. Guess I'll see!

Not drinking Alcohol in moderation. Developing Alcoholism in your 20's from partying to much can ruin the rest of your life!

Not getting an internship in college. It's not enough to have a non-joke major. You need to have proven your worth as an employee. When employers look at your resume and see you spent four years going to class and being part of a club, they see a waste of ink. They don't care what your GPA was, they care that you juggled that responsibility while getting real world experience.

Either that or just say fuck college altogether and go for a trade/vocation. But that just ties into the other piece of advice: know what you want to do before you go to college. Don't just go because you've been told to.

Even better is a job. It doesn't have to be in your major or related though that helps. First of all it means you make money so you take less out on loans. It also shows you have a work ethic above and beyond most other students and understand the basics of how to be an employee which are the same anywhere (showing up on time, clocking in/out, working with others, responding to supervisors etc..) if you had a job for an extended period of time it shows they likely won't have to fire you for something that basic.

All people ever talk about is debt on these things.

  1. The biggest mistake someone in their twenties can make lands them in the penitentiary. #FeloniesArentFun

  2. The biggest mistake someone in their twenties can make is having kids #BeReal

  3. The biggest mistake someone in their twenties can make earns them a lifelong incurable illness.

Go get a therapist. Don’t let the pressures of friends, family & culture pressure your lifestyle or life path. Try new things. Figure out where your passions are by trying & failing at new things over and over again.

Eventually, you’ll (hopefully) find it, and then 10 years later it’ll change. So keep seeking.

Also marriage sucks.

I'd really advise against racing to responsibility. Like, be responsible, but it's really hard to go backwards once you've got a spouse and/or kids and/or...

Let life come as it comes. I remember being so rushed to accomplish all of my "life goals" and now at almost 40 I feel worn down already because I married, kids, adopted, started a company, etc all in my early 20's. I don't remember what life with only a few minor responsibilities was like. I'll hopefully get some of that back when the kids are all out of school, but still. I don't regret my life at all, but I remember the first time I had the helpless feeling of all the weight on my shoulders. Developed quite the drinking problem that I've since quit, but that was another battle I didn't need.

Good luck out there!

Cocaine.

Drunk driving. One wreak can ruin the rest of your life.

Credit cards.. just say no kids

10 Life Lessons to live by:

  1. Nobody owes you anything. Whatever you want is yours to get.
  2. Asking for help doesn't mean you're weak. Far from it. It means you’re COMMITTED to getting it done.
  3. Nobody cares if you're wrong. Taking accountability, learning from it and moving forward is what makes a great team member and makes great character.
  4. Getting older isn't a bad thing - it's a gift. Not everyone gets the chance to grow old. Think about that for a second.
  5. Two halves don't make a whole. Two wholes make a whole. Whether you're looking for a significant other, a business partner, or a friend, you BOTH need to be solid and WHOLE in who you are before you can build something together.
  6. Nobody "finds" their passion. You practice, you improve and you realize how passionate you are about what you're doing.
  7. Time is of the essence. "There's not enough time." / "There's plenty of time." - BOTH WRONG. Enjoy the journey. But also, GET THERE.
  8. "If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room." Probably the best thing I’ve ever heard. Period.
  9. You're going to fail. And it's going to hurt. And that's OK. It's all part of the process.
  10. Tiny steps will take you MUCH further than infrequent home runs.

Yeah, pretty much all of these.

Don’t wait to “find yourself”

Go fucking create yourself. Your 20’s are the best time in life to take risks and explore your interests and passions.

Doing drugs, or smoking? I cannot highly stress enough the importance of staying off stuff like that. I've seen friends and people I know who had their lives screwed over by smoking or drugs. Great people who had a huge potential wasted by drugs. Smoking helped ruin a potential athlete who got accept full scholarship for rugby while drugs ruined a friends education and caused him to drop uni.

Fucking a bag of butter

Killing yourself (I hope)

Not starting hrt if transgender. Do it early! You’ll thank yourself later!

Fuck lots of women. You won't have the chance forever.

Thinking that 40 will take as long to arrive as 20 did while growing up.

Because you'll be 40 in 25 minutes.

I feel that way already and I'm 19 right now. 18 year old me felt like yesterday tbh.

How long a year feels in your late teens = exactly how long your entire 30s feels.

I'm serious. Read that twice. Act accordingly. When an adult tells you to get out there and experience the world when you can, FUCKING DO IT. Time is more precious than you are currently capable of understanding.

Stay for years with the person they met in their 17-18s and not get out with friends or travel very often...

And when the relationship ends, they realize their 20s are almost gone...

Take advantage of your greatest years !

Have fun and live life while you are healthy. Don't get stuck in a religion and lose the prime years of your life and regret it for all time.

Not saving any money towards retirement

Credit cards.

Blowing your money on partying, cars, women, drinking, and “other” things.

I would literally have no happy memories from my 20's if I followed this advice lol

Haha! I didnt say it wasnt fun but its not an ideal strategy.

Fuck man I'm Irish. What you've listed is what we live and die for. The only thing missing is Gaelic Football and Rugby.

Well if it makes you feel any better, i didnt follow my own advice in my 20’s :)

IMHO... Having kids

Having children

Listening to people on Reddit answering you question.

Rack up huge amounts of debt. Not saying don't take college loans but try and minimise the amount with grants/scholarships, more affordable schools (factor in networking and earning potential though) and saving as much as you can through part time/summer jobs, reducing living costs.

• Having debt in depreciating items.

• Not taking career leaps or staying in a role because it's comfortable

• Not saving in 401k

• Staying with a partner because it's comfortable

• Not traveling (as long as you can without going into debt)

This is the time to take calculated risks and get experiences under your belt. You won't have the same opportunities and freedoms as you get older and life happens. Don't be afraid.

Not drinking a lot of water and spending too much money

Overextending on your housing budget. People expect 20somethings to have shitty apartments.

Not investing in a 401K/403B

Getting too fond of credit. When I turned 18, up until I was 25, I had a credit card, and I got too fond of 'free money." I'm 34 now, and I'm only just debt free. Trying to repair my credit rating is difficult.

Credit card debt for things you want, not things you need.

It's really easy to rack up 5-10k debt in credit cards. If you're like most people, you're not getting out of it without bankruptcy. Good luck buying a house, a car, getting student loans...

Debt is bad.

Not having proper identification. It's like a plunger- get it before you need it even if you are a naturally-born U.S. citizen. Loan and apartment applications, organization and certain job applications, travel, etc. might surprise the heck out of you by needing identification documents you didn't think you'd need and by that point, there's little/no time to get them. Do yourself a massive favor, spend the money and time to make absolutely sure you have:

  • A drivers' license and/or state-issued photo identification card.
  • A valid Social Security card.
  • Your birth certificate and/or a re-issued one from your birth state/country if the original is lost (NOT JUST a photocopy of it although that is good to have on hand, too. You are an adult now, you need to be in possession of your BC).
  • Optional (but definitely helpful): a passport or passport card. These are a little on the expensive side but they are far more valuable than you think when it comes to ID and you don't have to re-up on them for a decade.

  1. Getting into debt.

  2. Getting STDs/unwanted kids.

Getting on the car payment cycle. A lot of people set themselves up with a $500/month car payment and just roll the balance into a new vehicle a few years later.

Verbal gold

Buying things you don't have the money for. You'll have a bad enough time with student loans. Buy the car you can afford in cash, don't use your credit card if you're unable to pay it off that month. Also not putting anything into retirement.

Speaking from experience, I would say that nearly every piece of advice I could give you would revolve around expenditures of money, saving, and financial planning in general. Do not get into significant debt in your 20s. If you do (student loans, for example), do not miss payments. Work with your debtors to come up with a plan. Save as much money as you can. If you can't save at all, then you need to look at your lifestyle or consider getting a second job. Live deeply within your means so that you can enjoy your 30s and beyond.

getting married too early and student loans

going to college with no game plan only to leave with debt that you will carry for the next 10-20 years.

Feeling pressured to get married or have kids! You have time, enjoy your twenties!

commit a serious crime or make a kid that they didn't want. Both carry big consequences

Ruining their credit.

You really don’t need that and you certainly don’t need to use a credit card to buy that shit. Stop it.

Overspending on credit cards. Am still paying off my 20s. Made a lot of mistakes. They're a great tool to have as long as you don't screw it up.

Playing it too safe. Sometimes you have to follow your heart when everything you've ever been told tells you it isn't a responsible idea. Within reason of course.

Not getting an education, or majoring in something "marketable" that they don't actually like without getting a more rounded liberal arts education. I am in my late 20s in a phd program, and I have a lot of friends around my age just getting their BAs because they thought they didn't need college, realized that the degree itself is actually necessary for a lot of things, and are now struggling to do school when everyone else is so much younger. I also know a lot of people who majored in business, marketing, or STEM fields because they thought it would be practical, but it either didn't help hem or hey didn't like the work and now feel like they wasted a lot of time and money on a college education.

The specifics of your college degrees don't matter for many industries--I know as many people working in tech with English and Philosophy degrees as I do with tech-related degrees. Two of my friends who work in marketing have BFAs. I have also worked retail jobs (albeit higher-end retail jobs) that required a college degree.

Start saving for retirement. Exercise. Eat healthier.

Not finding out who they are. Go live alone and find yourself, you'll be such a happier person if you know what YOU like and want.

Thinking that things are never going to change. In our 20’s we couldn’t see any way we were ever going to get out of the poverty trap, or live in a single-family home, or get custody of my step-daughter. We shared one crappy car to get us both to our jobs. Less than 10 years later we made decent money, had 2 cars paid off, bought a house and got full custody. A LOT can change in even 5 years.

Credit cards. Debt will change the rest of your life.

  1. Find new friends. Not saying you need to ditch the old ones, but the person you and your friends are in high school are not likely the ones you're going to be even 5 years later.

  2. Don't be afraid to start over if you've made a mistake. Relationships, jobs, location- in your 20s you can pivot much more easily than later in life.

Not to work with all power on one's dreams, what ever they may be.

Paying a fuck ton of money to go to college, but then not giving a shit about grades and just drinking.

Getting into massive amounts of debt. Then you spend the rest of your life just trying to pay it back.

Not putting money into a 401k (especially when if your workplace matches what you contribute) because, "I need all my money now".

Not saving and working dead end jobs. You can't afford to not save and a dollar saved in your 20s is better than a dollar saved in your 30s. Also you learn how to save and make adjustments in order to save. It's a valuable skill that many people never learn.

I spent half my life working dead end jobs in my 20s. It's the worst thing you can do. Don't get wrong, everyone has to eat shit on the way up and everyone has to work dumb jobs in their 20s. There are jobs that are shit jobs that end up going somewhere and there are jobs that are just shit jobs and don't go anywhere at all. They're just dead ends. The shit jobs that go someplace are fine. You want to work those jobs when you're young. The shit jobs that go no where you want to avoid.

Buying a mobile home. It sounds great at first, you can own your own place for less than it costs to rent a place, but if you don't own the land it is on, it just depreciates every year, and your space rent goes up and up, and eventually you lose money on the whole thing.

  1. Drugs, DWI, addiction in general. Even without addiction problems a DWI will follow you and make finding new employment much harder.

  2. A lack financial education. Using credit card irresponsibly, buying a car or house one cannot afford, failing to save money, and failing to understand the core concepts behind investing before investing money (it's not gambling if you do it right, diversify, don't time the market, and it's important to invest your long term savings or else inflation will eat your lunch).

  3. Children that cannot easily be accommodated or are unwanted. There are options including adoption. It's not fair to anyone when the child is used as a meal ticket. Unfit parents lead to unfit parents.

  4. Not striving towards a career. While this isn't possible for everyone, many people in there twenties think that their job is good enough and they have plenty of time to find a more permanent position. They don't appreciating the difficulty involved and the constant effort necessary to find a "good job" with long term potential.

Getting a chick pregnant. The end of times...

Following “YOLO” to the end.

Yes don’t be afraid of trying something at least once. But also think out the pros and cons of certain decisions. Because You Only Live Once but your life can seem a LOT longer if you become paralyzed or behind bars.

Not leaving your hometown. I took a cross-country road trip when I was 22 and it changed my life. I can't imagine what I would be doing if I never left.

I'm hopefully moving to the place I've wanted to be since that trip, so that excites me. I've still got 4.5 years of my 20's left.

Taking on massive student loan debt.

Buying an expensive car. I see it all the time. Home then car stupid..

Getting in to lots of debt. Debt is evil. Debt is a trap. Don’t do it!

Pursue your dream, if and only if:

  • That goal is actually possible
  • You are willing to be relentless in your pursuit of it. Anything less that everything is guaranteed failure, so just be an accountant if you can't give everything.

SAVE MONEY. Even if it is only a little bit at a time.

Do not rack up unnecessary credit card debt, use the card for emergencies or incredibly special/rare occasions.

Not understanding money management.

Spending 5 years destroying your body in exchange for easy money only to leave yourself unable to find decent employment later.

Be safe, work smart, not hard.

Getting married. Seriously, don't marry someone you barely know. Wait at least until 25 to get married and never get engaged before dating a year.

Finish college. It's so much easier to go to school in your early 20s than in your 30s.

Not figuring out who you are or what you want to do with your life. Most people just progress through life like it's a series of inevitable steps or paradigm shifts: graduate high school, graduate college, get married, buy a house, have a kid, etc.

Fuck that. The order doesn't matter. There is no right answer. One man's limo is another man's Hearse. Go at it your own way, on your own terms, and at your own pace.

Fucking up your credit or not establishing credit.

Allowing work and/or school to consume you to the point of having nobody around to provide a social support structure in their 30's.

Getting married on a whim. Make sure they're the one.

Going to school for something they don't know if they like. Some friends have already dropped out after spending tons of cash.

Do you NEED or WANT something? Also, if you can’t afford to lose something, maybe you couldn’t afford it in the first place?

These are thoughts I keep in the back of my head behind splurges.

Having a child

Thinking that they should save every last cent till they retire instead of enjoying their lives now while putting off a bit for later.

thinking they are perfect, and can't be hurt, so many think they are the best drivers, lovers, thinkers.

they think they drink all they want and can handle it, do some X-sports thing and think their body will be fine years later,

Ruining your credit.

Getting married. Seriously, slow down and enjoy life a bit, before settling down. You're also almost guaranteed to get divorced or trapped in a miserable relationship. We really dont grow up until around 30.

Messing Around With Stock Market/cryptos without really knowing too much, just following the hype and then getting burned when the tides recede.

I've lost at least $2 million in opportunity cost and compound interest to this mistake.

Don't leave a lucrative, decent career for tech startups.

In 2008, I caught the startup bug and joined one. Big mistake. It's really hard to get back into finance from startups; people assume you failed out, even if you have the IQ to prove that that's not what happened. Meanwhile, if you stay in finance and decide on the tech route, you can become a VC in your 30s, which is way better than being a founder, much less some loser engineer on 1% (or 0.1%, or 0.02%).

The '90s are gone, and the "startup scene" that exists now is there to rip off people who are clueless enough not to have gotten the memo. You'll get nothing but bitterness from playing that game, 999 times out of 1,000.

Taking out tons of student loans to go to your "dream" college. Go somewhere you can afford so you won't be paying back loans for the rest of your life.

Don't think you can win it all back by gambling more.

You are supposed to make mistakes in your 20s. Just don't make any of the following (in descending order of badness):

Fuck up your health or get yourself killed;

Destroy your reputation;

Get a serious criminal conviction;

Marry/have kids with the wrong person;

Acquire a crippling addiction;

Fuck up your credit/ get massively into debt; or

Sign a bad contract that has a long term or long-term effects.

Almost anything else you can bounce back from.

Believing that life gets any easier.

  • Having kids in a meh relationship, hoping it'll spark the passion back again

  • buying excessively (cars and house) when you're already tangled in debt

  • follow up to second bullet point, not saving, thinking your job's retirement fund is enough (it usually isnt)

  • thinking "buy now, pay later" plans are in your interest

Believing that anything is going to go their way.

Getting married... Just wait and make sure you're making good decisions.

My cousin just turned 21 and got purposely pregnant by her boyfriend of 5 days. She just got divorced and already has a 1 year old.

Savings are one thing, but credit cards..... So little is known to these idiot kids that sign and don't read... They think the payments are manageable, but then the interest hits.

Damiging up their credit(because they dont know how it works) or taking too long to get it going. Literally, one is not worth shit if one's credit is crap or nonexistant.

Getting into hella credit card debt and thinking "I'll figure it out"

  • Getting married/having a kid early on

  • Going to college for the sake of going to college. Take some time, figure out a good field that you don't hate but is also in demand. Don't be afraid to simply get a technical certificate of some kind, skilled jobs are in demand. I let familial pressure push me into college like it was the fucking 13th grade, and I got a degree that is in a cool field but the pay is shit, demand low, and with a lot of continuing education requirements. If I'd taken a while, I might've chosen differently.

  • Get into hard drugs

  • Trouble with the law

  • Screwing up credit. Starting good credit habits can pay off handsomely throughout a lifetime.

  • Taking care of oneself. Like credit, fitness habits can pay off significant dividends. Not saying everyone should be a fitness fanatic, but that metabolism is gonna slow down sooner than later, so not being good used to overeating and not being averse to at least light exercise now can be of huge benefit.

have kids

Falling in love and making stupid, life-changing decisions just because you thought you found your SO.

Debt.

Needless credit.card.debt

Credit cards for sure

Signing a contract without a complete understanding of the terms.

Save money in any way you possibly can.

1) Some banks(here in Norway it's every bank) are so eager to get your money that if you open a long term savings account then you get a stupid high interest(especially the BSU option which means your money is locked for downpayment on house or starting). Max it out or save as much as you can. The housing market seems to be a fucking pain both sides of the Atlantic ocean, so not only will this give you an edge, it will also lower the necessary mortgage which will give you more money in the future.

2) Buffer account! Have at least one or two months salary worth of money just sitting there. Once you've filled it up, don't touch it. Use it for when you need it, and when I say need it not the "I wanna go to a sunny place and party" need it, I mean "my washing machine and car that I need to get to work broke down" need it. Instead of going into debt that will take you longer to pay off than saving(and cost more) you'll pay everything off. Then start saving the buffer again until it's "full".

3) Retirement. Boring as fuck, but adult life is boring as fuck, especially finances. Although the best saving you can do is get rid of any debt, saving for retirement is the next best thing once you got a downpayment plan on your debt that you can live with and that leaves you a little extra. In Norway they expect the retirement age for my generation to be around 73,5(currently 67) and the amount I get will probably be reduced. My parent's generation got bumfucked in one settlement the government had to set down(public retirement fund) to not end up like Greece and my generation will probably get bumfucked even harder once they realise they can't pay for all of us(unless 1/3 commit mass suicide due to financial difficulties).

4) For the love of GOD learn how to do household chores properly like cleaning and cooking. Noodles might be tempting at a young age because it's quick and easy, but after 10 years you'll be bored sick and if you can't cook a decent dinner you'll feel lost. Go to your parents, have them teach you. Or grandparents.

Not getting educated. I'm not saying everyone has to go to college, get a degree and so on, but educate yourself. Never stop learning, there is so much out there to discover and know.

Getting upset and fighting with your so.

Semi-serious: be a socialist and blame your problems on society or others.

Serious: Waste your savings at the bar. Or waste your savings trying to have a ‘great life’ on social media (vacationing yourself into massive debt).

People Serious: think you have to keep people because you’ve known them for a long time. Anyone making you feel bad about yourself really shouldn’t be a part of your life.

Easy - not maxing out your 401k contributions as soon as you start working. Having the money come out of your paycheck so you never see it and get used to the larger take-home pay is the surest way to have a good retirement.

Relationships. You can easly get stuck in a terrible relationship just because you're unconsciously terrified of being alone, or forever destroy a great relationship due to anxiety, depression, or just stupidity.

Talk to your SOs, guys, be open and honest. And don't act under extreme emotions, always wait until you calm down.

I'm 25 now and what I see from fellow 20 something is they either just got out of college or didn't go to college and they label themselves as a free spirit or creative or finding themself. Which is all well and good but a good percentage of then don't have a back up career they are currently working at incase they can't feed themselves when/if their parents stop supporting their leeching asses

not furthering your education. this may be college, trade school, an apprenticeship program, grad school, whatever. but i know quite a few people who took low paying jobs out of HS and are still working low paying jobs. now they have families and kids and are stuck in the $40-50k earnings range for the foreseeable future. (we are in our late 30's now) While I went to college, and now I'm about to complete my MBA and am above 6 figures already. I expect a further bump beyond that in the near future as well. Going back at my age was tough, but it's been worth it. don't waste those years thinking $15-22/hr is a good living.

People need two learn two major mistakes:

1) Learn to live on a budget and cook for yourself. No, ordering pizza or going to McDicks every time is bad. Bad for your health, bad for your wallet and most of all just a waste of money. Easy meals that you cook on a sunday and freeze for the rest of the week are killer.

2) Save money & learn to not splurge. This might just be me, but i always felt i needed to have the newest thing. Now i've got a great career but am trying to play catchup for retirement at 30 vs having saved for the past 10 years.

This will probably get buried, but I've not come across this one yet.

Fucking up your credit, sucks to see people younger than you able to buy a house and you can't because you fucked up your credit.

These two points kind of counter each other but

  1. Not saving enough (RRSP or 401k)
  2. Not travelling enough

I am still in my 20s (28) and am already having regrets. I would say as others have said - procrastinating with the thought that "I have time". After highschool I put off going to college believing that I would go in a year or 2 when I "figured out what I wanted to do". Throughout my 20's I never did pursue higher education and never got serious about finding a stable career or saving money. The idea of driving terrified me so I never bothered to get my drivers lisence. Now I am 28 years old and rent my own apartment and have a job BUT it is NOT a stable or enjoyable job and NOT an ideal place to live either. Now I am pushing 30 and must try to get into a more suitable career with no higher education. I got my drivers lisence and a car a few months ago but had a much harder time learning than my peers who did it as teenagers. Most of my peers are buying their first houses, their first brand new cars, getting promoted, getting married, going on vacations, having children etc and I feel VERY behind because I have spent the past 8 years having fun, not taking my future seriously, being held back by fear and procrastinating. Biggest tip would be to work work work and SAVE SAVE SAVE! Plan for your future NOW so that you can enjoy later!

Tl;dr - do not procrastinate - work work work and save save save - it will pay off when your buying your first home or having that fantasy wedding or going on that dream vacation

Drinking and driving

Making major life decisions based on a non-married relationship. Like quitting the best job you ever had and moving across the country because your gf is too lonely. Then 10 months later she dumps you. Thanks Jess

Not investing in yourself. Your finances, your body and your relationships. Put money away from each paycheck. I know it sounds tough, but 10% of your income should go into savings, 401k and an emergency fund. 5% into a savings account, 3% into your 401k, 2% into an emergency fund. It adds up. You'll be blown away by how quickly it adds up. I didn't learn this until my late 20s. Now that I have more expendable income, I've doubled how much I save.

Work out. Enjoy your waning metabolism each weekend, but try to eat healthy and limit drinking and eating out to the weekends. Workout 3-5 days a week too. You'll wake up one day with a beer gut if you're not careful.

Try to keep up with your close friends with college and always make time for your family. People get old fast. You're gonna start seeing friends get married, have kids, buy houses. You might even find yourself in that boat. Always make time for your friends and family.

Getting addicted to alcohol/drugs.

Partying so much that you become addicted to booze and or drugs. Adding to that partying so much it cause health problems at a young age.

Getting married without checking/asking about your partners finances or credit score.

Drugs... they are so good for you, that they ruin your life .

If you're a man, always wear a condom during sex. I don't care if it's vaginal, anal, or oral. Wear a condom. When I was younger I had no idea that herpes could be spread via oral sex if my partner was not even showing signs of an outbreak on their mouth. There is no cure for genital herpes or HIV.

Run up tons of debt on credit cards and student loans, neither of which are worth it these days unless its a big-ticket degree like medicine, law or engineering. Barring a major financial windfall, you will spend the rest of your life paying it back in this brave new world of income inequality.

Buying a car that takes a large portion of their income. Better to buy something less expensive, establish credit, and use the money you save to invest towards your retirement or paying off student loans or save for a down payment on a house. Also, do the research on how to not get ripped off before you buy a car. Even a new one.

Not setting goals, long term and short term. What do you want out of life and what will it take to accomplish it.

Not saving at least 10% of your income. If you have a 401K invest max to match then sock away 10% in a savings account. Having a liquid cushion is a game changer.

Not getting insurance, health, renters or homeowners with an umbrella policy, get a basic life insurance that’ll at least cover burial and bills, shit happens.

Spend less than you make, I can’t stress this enough. Buy a used car, used furniture.

Not establishing credit. If you can, pay for everything with credit cards and PAY it off every month, do NOT carry a balance. Get a card with rewards so you get paid to use their card.

Not continuing your education. Get certifications in your field. Start working on your next degree. Learn a language, learn to code or how to automate your job. If you can communicate with some one who isn’t a native speaker that’s a huge asset. If you can do your job quicker and have more free time that’s a win for you and it’s a selling point when you ask for a raise.

Not taking a vacation. Fuck killing yourself for the paycheck. You need a mental break more than weekends.

Your 20’s are when you lay the foundation of your life. Don’t get me wrong you’ll fuck something up, it’s not the end of the world. Learn from your mistakes and improve. If you don’t fuck up something will throw you for a curve, just persevere and remember your goals, long term and short term.

401k as much as feasible, but at least company

Don't be tempted to go out and spend, cook yourself, save yourself.

Get off whatever you don't use or need. Garage/Yard type sales. Add to savings.

Be meager even if you have the means, don't be cheap, but don't spend what you don't need to. You still wanna have fun, have cool shit, and do cool things. GREAT. Just realize that stuff will always be there in some form.

Trouble with the law.

ruining your credit and finances right out of the gate of adulthood. you will feel this for the rest of your life

Addictions and Isolation

Trying to stay with one lover.

Not travelling and start smoking

Can I do a remind me for like 3 years I want to remember this post

Did it for 8 years can agree.

Keep your paperwork! If you submit anything important and costly like a graduate school application or even just an undergraduate school application always keep a copy for your own records. I cannot tell you how many times schools have “lost” my petition to graduate, or the transcripts from the school I transferred for, or something got misplaced. I also had the state attempt to garnish my wages for not paying child support. I called them in a good mood knowing they were wrong. They didn’t really like my explanation that I was still a virgin and had never had a girlfriend so it was physically impossible... but having a paper trail to prove my identity and show they had the wrong person helped resolve that quickly.

Don’t assume just because someone is part of a government agency or is in some official capacity they are above making mistakes and lying to cover it up.

No goals

Thinking you've got forever.

Time is already starting to run out, and for many things the younger you do them the better.

Start saving money as soon as you can.

Not making a point to form good life habits now that you're on your own and "in charge."

Habits are those mindless things you do completely painlessly because at some point, you made the effort to do them for a month or two when it was a pain in the ass and then suddenly, it wasn't.

Life gets exponentially more complicated the longer you live. Good habits will have entire sections of your life on autopilot, so when you hit the Class V rapids, you can focus on what you need to and not the piddly shit.

Not investing. Don’t be the person saying “I’ll invest later when I’m older”. One year turns into two turns into five turns into ten, and this whole time you could’ve been growing a portfolio.

Getting credit cards then losing a job. 🤷‍♀️

Took me forever to dig out of that shit.

Have as much unprotected sex as you possibly can.

Complacency and the inability to make lasting commitments. Complacency because just like your teenage years, your twenties will fly by; keep driving to better yourself both physically and mentally...which leads to lasting commitments - Shit gets hard no matter what you do in life. I've found that the most fulfilling things in my life are the ones I consistently fight for. On the flip side, the most painful things I've experienced were/are from a lack of commitment. Pace it out...future you will be stoked. ;)

Not realizing how much better your thirties will be.

Going downhill on a longboard.

Source: am in emergency care

Having kids too young. Getting in debt.

Anything involving credit. Especially pay day loans.

Developing a drug habit and dropping out of college is pretty fucking stupid.

I see a lot of people posting about not having kids until you're ready. I think that's funny cause I've been told that you're never truly ready for all the changes that will occur when you have one. Its not the end of the world though, and there's plenty of worse things that could happen to you. My advice is to make sure you have fun while you can. Do the things you want to do cause "someday" never comes. Also make sure to include fun in your budget, don't assume it is whatever is left over, and don't leave it out entirely.

Fucking around with drugs carelessly and getting locked up. Just take every care to make sure you stay incognito.

Not having enough insurance. Sure you dont have anything they can take from you, but is that how you want it for the rest of your life?

drugs and alcohol

Credit card debt. It can get out of hand real quick. Be careful, kids! If you find yourself in trouble, get some credit counselling. I did when I was 26 and it was very helpful.

Drinking too much/too often, sleeping around, not taking life seriously. Been there, done that.

Heroin.

not starting a retirement savings account/plan

Having kids, racking up 5,00+ debt or catching a felony.

If I could give my past self one piece of advice, it would be “start an investment account now and put 10% of your paycheck into it automatically”. You’re sending free money to yourself in the future. This goes for retirement accounts as well.

Hand / neck tattoos.

In a lot of industries, they're not accepted yet. And you don't want to be cut from the interview process because of visible tattoos.

Read this thread and realize you've done fucked up.

Staying in a toxic relationship.

Children

Getting sucked into credit card debt

Majoring in philosophy

Don't wait to go after what you want. Put your life goals first or you may miss them entirely.

Spend way too much time thinking about, worrying about, and trying to salvage a single relationship with a single person.

Work on yourself. This is your time.

Gaining weight. Do everything you possibly can to stay thin or lose weight if you were a fat teenager.

Falling in love and getting married with zero financial plan to support both yourself and your spouse. Financial stress is currently the second-most common reason listed for divorce in America, and after a separation, you may end up with less than you had before or at the very beginning of the marriage.

Rushing into life changing things because you want to feel like or be perceived as an adult.

Potentially more appropriate for UK Redditors. Moving out of a comfortable home life into rented accommodation and then spending your life paying someone else's mortgage. Save like fuck, get on the ladder.

How are STDs not mentioned here ?

Trying to control things...

Getting married

Not educating yourself on the basics of finance.

Unplanned pregnancy Living above ones means

Getting a brand new car when you can just barely afford it, and just because you want it.

  1. Live below your means
  2. Set aside a savings/401k etc
  3. Credit cards can quickly become your enemy. My rule is only use them in emergencies and pay them off at the end of each month.
  4. Take care of your health. Quit smoking, don’t drink to the point of stupidity, stay active. When you’re older it gets exponentially harder to catch up.
  5. I heard all the same shit in this thread and ignored it all. I popped out kids, marriages, debt all over etc I started making good choices in my thirties and am still working on fixing my shit. Basically you decide if you want to front load your fun and pay later or live a bit more cautiously and enjoy your later years more. Either way, you do you, and ignore the naysayers, they won’t always be there.

Credit card debt

Getting "stuck" in bad relationships with bad people and feeling like they can't leave. You absolutely can and you will be just fine. No need to stay in a relationship with a toxic, mentally unstable alcoholic. (A little specific but who cares. Input your own scenario)

I don't know how I haven't seen this but RUINING YOUR CREDIT will fuck your early life in the ass if you want good prospects.

Unprotected sex.

A child you’re not prepared to care for, or an STD that will kill you is no fun.

fucking up your credit and not contributing to your 401k - financial responsibility is important, kids.

i'm in my mid 30's and playing catch up cause of this.

Skipping the condom.

Don't push off finding a career because you're not sure yet, it won't randomly come. There are people who are graduating from college/getting certs from a trade school at age 19-23 and are already making over $50k a year with benefits.

You don't want to be 30+ with no marketable skills, holding a minimum wage job trying to go to school. At least with student debt, there's a way up unlike regular debt.

Wasting their 20s. Too much drinking and drugging. Putting off college until later. Always agreeing with everyone else. Not learning how to say no and stick up for yourself.

Have a backup plan for what you want to do with your life. If A doesn't work, try B.

Sometimes you luck into a career but that isn't for sure.

And, take care of your teeth.

Sleeping around too much

Debt!

Not saving for retirement. Money compounds over time. Saving a little in your 20s is way easier than trying to save more in your 30s and it will grow so much faster.

Not saving for retirement, foregoing fitness, and spending money they don’t have.

Going to college because it’s the thing to do. Staying in toxic relationships. Ignoring self growth.

getting married too early.

Divorce is the single most expensive thing a guy can do. I don't care HOW much avocado toast you buy

Getting into drugs. Wasted 15 years. About 5 were fun. The rest sucked.

Credit card debt

Date for fun or for long term partnership or for figuring out what you want or for getting a certain type out of your system. Don’t date to avoid being lonely. Don’t date someone because they’re interested in you.

Do one of those things at a time but do it consciously.

Racking up credit card debt

Putting all their money into one cryptocurrency (unless it's bitcoin.)

Moving out if your parents are willing to let you stay, work, save, buy a house.

Not traveling.

Go, travel.

Try to determine who are the friends you want long term and make sure you work on spending time with them. It gets much harder to maintain friendships the older you get. Invest some money now if possible and buy cheaper cars.

Going into a massive amount of debt (40k+) with no tangible assets or education.

Not contributing to your 401(k) up to what your company will match.

I'm 25 and have made too many mistakes to count. Biggest ones are not saving money and also making commitments (like financing a car) without much thought. Really screwed myself. By the time I'm 30 I'll be free of any contracts.

Gettin Married. Early 20’s.

Getting addicted to negative lifestyles because it looks cool.

Don't do drugs, don't get black out drunk every evening. If you're still in college go to your fucking classes.

Don’t co sign on your girlfriends auto

Having sex without a condom... even if she tells you that she is on birth control...

permanent decisions. get married, have kids, buy a big house, join the military. don't do any of these in your 20's, period.

Tattoos.

For me, it was getting married in my early 20s. I'm divorced now at 35 years old.

Get married, if it's early 20's. I got married at 21. Over the next several years I continued to grow, mature, and change. He did not. We ended up divorced. I shouldn't have gotten married that young while I was still figuring out who I was as an adult.

Rushing to get married

Butt chugging

Getting straight As for 3 years in college then deciding to try cocaine, then heroin, then becoming a full blown addict for 5 years. Hopefully stay alive and be able to start your life again at 30. I know from experience.

Alcoholism.

Seriously, I lost my 20s. Had some great times, but values change. Trying to make my 30s better.

Spend money you don't have on things you don't need.

Getting addicted to anything - smoking, drinking, drugs. At the time, when you're young, it feels like just short-term heavy use can't hurt.

It can if you find you can't kick it when you're ready to stop partying.

Don't act like an asshole who knows everything. Try to be humble, it will open up your life for more opportunities.

Having kids

They believe they will look the same or people will like their looks the same when they turn 30.

choosing a college major that isn't broad enough

Thinking the grass is greener in terms of relationships.

Getting married and having kids, just because you want to follow a timeline. Just because you’ve been with your SO for three years or more does not mean you should get married and have kids.

Getting Married.. Kid out of wedlock...

  • Paying back the minimums on those college loans. Or worse, deferring payment on said loans. I have a housemate who graduated with 21,000 in college loans debt defer it for the maximum time allowed (10 years) and now she owes 27,000 and the minimum payments are all being applied to the interest first.

  • Getting a new car loan while having college loan payments. Buying used isn't going to hurt you as long as you get it well inspected and buy wisely, and can save you 10-20K versus the price of a new car.

  • Getting upsold on a car purchase. "Sure, it's only 250 a month, but what about the better maintenance plan, tire coverage, roadside assistance... suddenly you're looking at 400+ a month, which doesn't seem like much, but... your car insurance goes up too.

  • Not throwing money into an emergency fund every month. Even if it's $20 at the end of the month, having a 2 month buffer space for unexpected car repair bills, medical bills, or the sudden layoff can make a difference between the Forced Maxing Out of Credit Cards death spiral and not being able to pay power/rent/gas/car.

  • Thinking medical insurance covers everything. Like elective dental surgery, or glasses, or specialist copayment fees for an HMO.

  • Buying a house using an ARM. This is a big part of what caused the housing crash -- at the end of the 3 or 5 years, people's mortage payments went from 'mostly affordable' to 'impossible' and they lost their house and wrecked their credit rating on top of it, which made renting a new place with almost no money really hard.

  • Eating out all the time instead of cooking. Sure, it's more time efficient, but 20-30 bucks a day adds up, versus being able to live on a lot less, cooking healthier meals while doing it, and being able to take leftovers for lunch. :9

  • Echoed emphatically on 401K early and often. I'm sitting on six digits worth of retirement money I can't touch after two decades, so I should be fine for cash when I retire as long as I move out of the state. :P

Smoking. Stupidest fucking thing you could do, for many, many reasons. Don't do it.

Not finishing college. If i had finished college THEN, or even kept going, i would be an engineer by now for 10 years and probably have my own firm or at least be a project manager by now. If you can manage to get it out of your way when you are YOUNG, its much much eaiser later on. Its hard once you have a full time job, a wife and/or kids to try to go back and finish

Buying a new car, wasteful spending. Seriously, put that money in the bank! I'd rather drive a beat up hoopty and have 10 grand in the bank than drive a Mercedes and owe someone money.

Have no friends

Having kids before you're married.

Spending too much of their money on housing.

When you get older, you will have greater housing needs. You might have a partner who lives with you. You might have kids who need to live in a safe place with a good school system. You might have a home business that requires space, or separation from neighbors, or something like that.

But when you're in your 20's, you're the freest you're ever going to be, and your ability to rent one room in a shitty triple-decker with a bunch of weird roommates is at its highest. You housing will probably always be your most expensive line item in your budget, and the hardest to change. Spend as long as you can living in the shittiest apartment you can stand. Don't get an apartment in a safer area with a doorman. Don't live alone. Don't move in with a boyfriend/girlfriend who has higher expectations for standards of living than you do. Don't get a dog that's going to require you to get a nicer place with a pet deposit.

Live in as shitty an apartment as you can stand, for as long as you can stand, and save that money for a down payment when you actually have needs for good housing.

Going to college without an idea of what you want to do.

Not taking care of their body. And I don't even mean exercises. I feel most people feel still young therefore they think they can do and carry everything..yea sure u can for now.

Using drugs, even if they think ot would just be once.

Cheating on someone who you actually love anf loves you back. I know many say you wouldnt cheat on someone you love but when you are young and unsure of life you make mistakes.

Not going to a therapist.

Racking up unnecessary debt on credit cards. Need to eat? OK. But no, you do not need the $749 pair of Jimmy Choo stilettos. True story, my co-worker bought them anyway, had 4 maxed out credit cards at 23, ~$10k each...all couture clothes and high-end shoes. I was floored when I heard this. We worked in property management at the time and she made $15/hour as a leasing agent.

Moving in with someone after 2 months. RIP that $1000 that he stole :(

As a 20 year old, I am both shocked and grateful for this post.

Thinking that it's too late in life to pivot and do something else.

Getting a DUI

Gambling. Seriously, don't do it.

From stuff that I've witnessed I'd say having unwanted children before being financially stable and in a commited relationship. Second common young adult mistake I'd say is wandering trught life whitout taking resposabilities or making some sort of plan, I've seen people going like they'd be young forever, next thing you know they are in their 30s broke and alone.

Thinking of your 20s as the important era of your life.

Unprotected sex.

Not saving money. Even small monthly sums should be put aside.

I saw one redditor comment on a similar post once and he said basically the biggest mistake of not giving a fuck now mean's giving a lot of fucks later in life.

You’re never too young to start a career.

I know some have hit the “do something” point a few times already but the above saying was some of the most succinct advice I ever received in my early 20s

Blowing all the money you make and not saving anything. Believe it or not, you make and burn a LOT of money in your twenties. Create a stash somewhere, some kind of interest-bearing savings account, start saving money and never stop. That should be your religion. Pay yourself first and try to get out of the habit of instant gratification. You will thank yourself a million times for being so damn smart when you get older.

Also do not be in any hurry to get married. He or she may seem like the one but wait. Wait and give it time. Give it years of time before you tie the knot. Avoid marriage altogether if you can.

Having too much children. Save until you can support them.

Become a heroine addict or alcoholic. Actually, I don't think, that becoming a self-destructive addict is a good idea in any age. But crushing your most active years with drugs instead of learning a new stuff or building your future is especially horrible.

Building bad credit.

Continue to use drugs when one should be learning life skills. At 31 I am just now growing up.

Going into debt to go to school. I ran out of money and dropped out (life isn't predictable - stuff happens). 8 years later I'm still in debt with no degree to show for it (I'm 30 and living with my Mom again because I ran out of money and can't afford rent + debt payments).

Having children. Marrying way too early. Not properly planning their college careers.

Them credit cards.

Also not staying consistent with schooling. Always been told to know or don't go. It'll save you some dough.

choosing a shorter life by letting themselves get fat.

Job hopping unnecessarily.

Ruining your credit by buying something you can’t afford if an event changes your whole life. I had amazing credit and when I was 22 I had to give a truck up to the bank because I moved and couldn’t afford the 600 dollar payments and 6 years later my credit is still fucked up from it and it’s impossible to get a house and if you’re not lucky like I was in getting a good landlord you will have issues even renting.

Rushing into a relationship, a course of study, a financial commitment instead of exploring the world a little.

Life’s too precious to get tied down at such a young age.

Also you’re probably fucked for retirement anyways do you might as well enjoy your life!

Buying a house with less then 20% down. In the long run, you will be spending tens of thousands of dollars more versus if you saved 20% or more for a downpayment on a house.

Drinking too much.

Smoking cigarettes! It's a waste of money and has the potential to cause disastrous effects to many body organs.

Drinking in excess, a lot of people don't understand the consequences and how hard it is to quit.

Not cherishing your health.

Not learning how to cook. Buying new cars. Living paycheck to paycheck.

Settling too soon. Far too many of my peers decided that they wanted something right now, whether it was a job, spouse, car, or whatever. They rushed into something too soon and now they're paying the price. Friends who could have finished degrees but took a lower paying job right away because of short term monetary gain, friends who got married and had kids with basically the first person who came along, friends who have ridiculous interest rates on absurd loans because they wanted a shiny new car NOW. Just be patient, you don't need to "have everything" before you're 25! Or 30! Or ever!

Don't get married

Seeking pacification over stability but on the other side of it, being too focused on your future.

Dui

Underestimating the power of compound interest. 401k's are your friend.

Not contributing to retirement

Don’t save - Time turns money into more money. If you think of it like you have 4-5 decades to save do you really want to waste 1? Fuck no. Start saving now.

Felonies!

Wasting time, specially around college. I remember skipping classes to go to see a movie, for instance. Everything become twice as complicated once you start with your adult life.

Pulling money out of a 401k and not rolling it into an IRA after you leave a job.

Also,

Not putting money into a 401k/Roth IRA/Traditional IRA when you get a job.

You should literally put in as much money as possible at the start of your career. Start at upwards of 50% of your income if you can swing it. it's always easier to back down from it as you increase income/debt.

By pulling out retirement fund dollars when you separate from the company and not rolling it over, you are costing yourself thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in future funds.

Not putting any money into it, is doing the same thing.

Not saving for a deposit on a home.

Not saving for retirement. Most companies are getting rid of their retirement benefits. If you don't do it, you won't retire.

Getting in to too much consumer debt. Save for the items you want. Don't buy them on credit unless absolutely necessary.

Don't have children with the wrong person. If you do, you will have to pay for them for 18 years and you will likely incur attorney fees and anguish from a parent who will often use the children as pawns in a despicable game.

Go to college and get a marketable skill or learn a trade. It'll pay off in the end.

Not saving any money. I was good about doing this in my early 20s before I got married. After I got married saving any kind of money was non-existent. I'm better about it now, but it took me a long time to get into a habit of paying myself first. You gotta have a partner that is also willing to save, too.

Above all else, drugs. Learn to control it and you're already 10 steps ahead of those that don't.

Learn about your credit. It sucks turning 30 and realizing you still have years to unfuck yourself before you can use your credit as a positive asset again.

Getting a giant loan from the bank when you have zero idea how they work. Let's just say at 19 i was a fucking idiot and had no idea about how loans actually work, including interest. I figured you just paid back what you borrowed and a little bit extra and that was that. Didn't realise my 30k loan would have thousands of dollars of interest on top. The loan was to be paid back over a 7 years, 5 years later and I've only just paid off 10k Why the hell I thought I needed that much money is beyond me.

Not playing it safe. Sometimes that exactly what you need to do.

Not saving for retirement. $2000/year for 45 years invested in an index fund earning 8% will be about $750k. $2000/year <$40/week.

Becoming complacent with their lifestyle. Future you will always be different and by holding onto the drive for something slightly more you can help that "you" out further down the line.

Get to know themselves and learn to enjoy being alone. Being an adult is lonely. You might as well like it.

Deciding they already are experts in their field. Nope. Not by a long shot.

Not socializing enough.

Going to college for something you don't need to go to college to do.

There's a lot of ridiculous pressure to go to college in high school -- and if your grades aren't too good, you might be convinced to go for a 'passion' degree, where the entrance standards aren't as rigorous, and you have the limited experience to back it up. (E.G; Art, Film, etc.)

The problem is that quite often, 'passion' fields don't really require a degree. They literally just need a passion. It doesn't help that a great deal of the colleges specializing in these sorts of degrees tend to be very unstable.

Coming from someone who had his four-year college close down three-years in, and is literally unable to do anything about his massive student loan debt, don't let it happen to you! It kills me when I see people in my industry who didn't go to school getting further ahead.

Living with your parents can suck but honestly getting stuck in a shitty apartment that you’re barely able to afford sucks a lot worse and is way harder to get out of. Like if you have a $1200 apartment and clear $2000 a month that leaves you $800 for all your other bills and no room to save, so if you want to leave that place you’re kind of fucked imagine trying to save up first last and security for another apartment.

Marriage, babies, credit cards.

Spending their money on frivolous things and not saving and investing. Having a couple of grand in the bank is a good feeling and a source of freedom of choice.

Casual drug use developing into addiction.

Credit cards. Don’t get one. Don’t use one. Don’t even think about one.

Getting married and/or having kids just because all of your friends are. Both are 100% optional life choices.

Accrue as little debt as possible. Don’t run up your credit cards, don’t live beyond your means and strive to increase your credit score as much as possible.

Not investing in a RothIRA, 401k, or other tax sheltered accounts. Even if you only put a small amount in, it will grow and you’ll be surprised at what you’ve got down the line.

Focusing too much on having a boyfriend. I look back and recognize too many tears and too many missed opportunities because of whomever I was with at the time. What makes it worse is the poor treatment I put up with and the fact that none of those guys were worth what I put into being with them.

*DO NOT MISS OUT BECAUSE OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP!!!***

Living beyond their means. Living at home and saving money for a BMW instead of planning for the future.

Getting married and/or having kids because of social or familial pressure. Loads of people get married in their 20s not because they feel like they're ready, but because that's "just what you do at that age."

No hate to people that do these things in their 20s. I was 24 when I got married. Just make sure you're doing it for the right reasons. Waiting a bit longer usually does more good than harm.

Giving in to lazy eating and a lazy lifestyle.

Think of your body as your house. You live in it and it can be as good or bad as you let it be. The great thing is that you have every opportunity to make your body healthy and you will be rewarded if you do.

Even if you don't have a great job or a nice house or a fancy car, you CAN eat healthier and get exercise every day. You will look better, feel better, have more energy and less stress because of it.

Make exercise a PRIORITY. Don't let other things get in the way of it.

Building these habits now will help you to continue these habits when you are older.

There are lots of great subreddits to help you if you need some ideas or encouragement.

Living a lifestyle that exceeds your limits (goal is to live below your means and save up, since these are your peak non-big-expense years - ideally).

Reaching for milestones before you’re both fiscally and emotionally ready, just in order to keep up with friends or because you feel like it’s just the next step (marriage, kids, home ownership). These should all be conscious, well-thought, fully committed decisions. In the meantime, enjoy the stage of life you are in.

Eating poorly and failing to exercise. It’s easiest to fall off the wagon after college when you are living by yourself or with roommates that you don’t really interact much with.

Not continuing to invest in your career. Getting the job is one thing; getting good at it is another. Learn new skills that will advance you; build your network; own whatever you are doing. If you hate it, you can switch - but don’t do a poor job because you don’t like what you do; because you may not like what you do because you haven’t fully given it a shot.

Not taking responsibility and not learning to communicate at an adult level. You can get away with it thru college. But without developing these skills, your career and relationships will start to crumble. People will want to have serious conversations with you, and you need to be able to be present in the conversation, actively listen rather than waiting for your moment to speak, and give the conversation the level of depth and severity it deserves.

  1. Not saving money/spending too much money
  2. Not establishing credit
  3. Not investing/starting a retirement account
  4. Squandering time
  5. Not being selective about who you keep around you

Number 1 sort of applies to a lot of people. There are many people in genuine financial hardship but many are just making poor choices. If your family is wealthy, then great, but learning how to save your own money and spend it wisely is a skill.

Number 2 is how you set yourself up for the future as an "adult". There are ways around not having a credit history or paths in life you can take that mean you don't necessarily need one. That said, if you ever need to borrow more than a few hundred bucks for something and your friend isn't spotting you for it, it's probably coming from a bank, or other financial institution who will need credit history to determine if they should lend it to you or not.

Number 3 could be anything, and should be pretty simple and low fee. If you're gonna be saving money, may as well make it work for you. If you can't commit to throwing it in an IRA, you can keep it relatively liquid by using something like robo-investing with someplace like Wealthfront or Betterment. The advantage of throwing it in an IRA is or rather the disadvantage is, there's little provision for "catching up" if you miss contributing for the year. Once you pass the last contribution date (typically the federal filing date the following year), you've lost the opportunity to put money in for that year. The current limit is $5500 which may or may not make a difference.

Number 4 is just my personal thing. I'm not saying don't have fun or waste time when it's appropriate. I'm saying don't fall into the trap of thinking "I'm only in my 20s. I have plenty of time to do this other shit later" Sooner is better than later, and now is better than sooner. Use whatever free time you have to learn and experience as much as possible because circumstances generally change as you get older and those changes usually don't come with greater flexibility and free time.

Number 5. We're all human and I assume you've learned how to love and accept your friends despite their idiosyncrasies and differences. If you haven't, then add that to this list. That doesn't mean you have to necessarily put up with people. You're free to accept or reject their companionship or friendship without being a bad person. You don't have to keep company with people who are excessively negative, or destructive, or whatever doesn't fit what you want. That said, broad exposure to different people with different perspectives is never a bad thing.

There are caveats to all the above and I've outlined some of them, but these are general guidelines I find valuable and wish I had when I was in my 20s.

Also, don't be an asshole. Life is hard already. Why make things harder?

Applying the sunken costs principal to relationships. People will date someone for a long time in their 20's, realize there are problems, but marry that person anyway because they've already spent so much of their 20's in that relationship it seems like a waste not to commit. Plus, the pressure from society to get married and have babies by an arbitrary age. This is why so many people get divorced like a year after getting married or having a baby. It's easy to ignore the problems in your relationship when you're planning a huge fun party or getting ready to have a baby, but the problems are still there after the fun is over.
TL;DR: don't marry/have a kid with someone just because you've been dating a long time and it'll throw off your arbitrary life plan to have to find someone else to do that with.

Save money , as much as you can

Not socking away cash for retirement. The sooner you start the less you have to sacrifice.

Sticking to an education that will get you nowhere.

Going in debt and not saving.

Not traveling!

Not investing as much as you possibly can for retirement.

A dollar invested for retirement in your 20s is worth FAR MORE than a dollar invested for retirement in your 30s.

Not being financially responsible. Now is when you build the foundation for the rest of your life.

Praise be the chart

Bit of poetic non-advice from Sam Johnson:

Long-expected one and twenty

Lingering year at last is flown,

Pomp and pleasure, pride and plenty,

Great Sir John, are all your own.

Loosened from the minor’s tether,

Free to mortgage or to sell,

Wild as wind, and light as feather

Bid the slaves of thrift farewell.

Call the Bettys, Kates, and Jennys

Every name that laughs at Care,

Lavish of your grandsire’s guineas,

Show the spirit of an heir.

All that prey on vice and folly

Joy to see their quarry fly,

Here the Gamester light and jolly,

There the lender grave and sly.

Wealth, Sir John, was made to wander,

Let it wander as it will;

See the jockey, see the Pander,

Bid them come, and take their fill.

When the bonny Blade carouses,

Pockets full and spirits high,

What are acres? What are houses?

Only dirt , or wet or dry.

If the guardian or the mother

Tell the woes of wilful waste,

Scorn their counsel and their pother,

You can hang or drown at last.

All this thread does is remind me i fucked up my 20's. Im doomed

Ignoring preventative care and good health habits because, "I'm doing fine now." All the damage you do to your body when you're young and feel invincible adds up over time, and it get harder and harder to fix yourself the older you get. Be kind to yourself when you're young.

Being forced to go to college even if they don’t want to nor have the passion to.

Boomers had an advantage when they attended universities—tuition was much, much cheaper. My current tuition at my private university is about $65k/year. Boomers only paid like 10k when they went to uni.

Before people bash on me about “hur dur u shouldnt have gone to private uni then,” well then let me also tell you that PUBLIC universities in my state are also hiking their tuition to be more competitive with private uni’s here.

College and universities are becoming a corrupt business system in this country, and it’s sad that many older generations even have the audacity to force newer generations to go AND even blame them for this shit.

committing to qualifications ie expense, effort, funding etc in a field or subject that does not lead to you having a skill or professional qualification people will pay you to do for them. also not eating correctly ie not eating quality 'power' food and ending up with chronic fatigue, adrenal fatigue and/or ending up with vitamin deficiencies.

Choosing to work more part-time hours to get money for unimportant hobbies while delaying college/university graduation.

Every year you delay getting out of school results in “one year of tuition + one year potential salary” worth of money, which is HUGE, which doesn’t even account for investment growth potential.

If your hobby is important and meaningful, then that’s a different story, but 99% of the people who I’ve known are working extra hours and sacrificing their schooling for relatively unimportant things like gadgets and glitz.

Living with your friends. It can be an awesome thing if you can live together with respect and boundaries. But it’s a great way to destroy a relationship.

Thinking you know everything.

Failing out of college and ending up with tens of thousands in debt with no degree to show for it. Happened to many of my friends, some more than once. They will have debt well into their 30’s.

Note not the same as leaving school if making the conscious decision it’s not for you. That’s different and the right choice for some.

Failing out of college and ending up with tens of thousands in debt with no degree to show for it. Happened to many of my friends, some more than once. They will have debt well into their 30’s.

Note not the same as leaving school if making the conscious decision it’s not for you. That’s different and the right choice for some.

Surrounding yourself with people you think you should be friends with instead of people that actually make you happy

Knock someone up

Doing something out of peer pressure/ thinking this is just when it's done like getting married or having a child. Trust your inner voice. If it's saying something is wrong, there probably is. Don't just do it because you think this is what adults do.

Not taking care of yourself. Friend of mine had a very poor diet and would not exercise and developed type 2 diabetes. Don't think that you're invincible because it'll come back to bite you.

thinking that you don't need a role model. Find someone you think is admirable in your field whether at work or at school. Ask them questions and for advice. You can always ask yourself whether it is good or bad advice but thinking that you can figure it out on your own is not valiant and can make life unnecessarily difficult.

Yes, this person could potentially be one or both of your parents. Obviously not all parents qualify so to each their own.

Develop a gambling addiction. It makes it so much harder to put money away for the future.

Tearing their labrum while working out.

Negative interest that does not improve your life. Buying a $35,000 car when you could drive a $15,000 one. Buying a large house when you should be in a starter home. Racking up credit card debt on luxury items you don't need. Getting student loans when you aren't fully committed to earning your degree. When you don't have good interest rates and you owe 10s of thousands of dollars in debt it really limits your options later in life

Max that 401k. Max that IRA. Work 2 jobs if you must.

Continue to pursue their Liberal Arts degree. That's a lot of money to waste on something that probably won't pay you back.

This might be unpopular. For all of the talk about "following your dreams" and "doing what you love for work", I think you follow that to an extent. Have a plan. If you want to be an artist, pursue it hard. However, I can't tell you how many people went to school expecting their degree to be a money earner just to find out the opposite. It's tough because by the time you've figured out, you're way behind.

Ruining their credit

As a 20 year old, this thread is terrifying.

The main responses that I'm seeing is be careful with debt, staying healthy, and to no get married before 30 :).

Having children.

It took your parents, aunt's & uncle's, older coworkers, neighbors around the block YEARS to collect there household items and lifestyle .... Do not try and do it all in your 20s.

Meth

not traveling

Grad School! Waste of 2 valuable years in my 20s.

Depends on the program and field but if you don't 100% have a plan for afterwards or any experience in that area, you don't need it.

If you must do it, go to an amazing city (like Barcelona) and do it there. While your wasting your time you may as well enjoy new experiences and cultures. Nobody actually gives a shit what school you went to in the business world, so you're way better off enjoying it rather than going to an expensive school in a boring as fuck location.

Please please please put at least as much money in your 401k to get the match that your company gives. It is FREE money.

Ruining your credit. Opening up a whole bunch of cards and ending up in thousands of dollars in debt. It’s stressful and very hard to come back from if you don’t have the funds. I know too many people that have made this mistake myself included.

Been there done there.

When it comes to finances, this one always works

Apparently I've made all the mistakes you can in my 20's

Not contributing to a 401k if available at work.

Buying the bar a round of drinks

Moving out too soon. You're not a loser for staying with your parents for a while, I did until I was 30 but that allowed me to build a thriving business without the financial pressure of moving out. Now im moving into a $1.3 million dollar house and live a relatively stress free life without a boss. Or I could have been renting for 12 years and working for some jabroni so I didn't look like a loser.

The best financial advice I have for anyone is to do your best to avoid lifestyle inflation. The more money you make, the more frugal you should be. If you start out living on $15,000/year and you go up to $20,000 don't increase your lifestyle to costing $20,000, instead increase it slightly as a reward (say to $16,000) and put the other $4,000 into savings.

Don't get sucked into paying for a lifestyle that always takes most of your income. Instead, set yourself up so that as you make more money, proportionally less and less of your income is required to sustain things.

Student loan debt, having a kid with the wrong partner, drug addiction and arrest for a serious crime are some that I think of right away

Taking drugs recreationally. They will absolutely definitely lower your chance at success in life. Just stay away.

Getting a DUI. It won't end your life (unless that's what happens and or someone elses) but it will set you back years

Succumbing to depression and gathering debt instead of seeking help early due to fear of social stigmas/family judgements

In no particular order : Do not live beyond your means, never carry a credit card balance. Eat and drink in moderation, enjoy these great years, but don't kill your liver! Plan your retirement Now! Even a modest weekly investment will grow significantly over time. It's nearly impossible for someone in their 40s to beat someone who started in their 20s.

Committing to a relationship that isn’t healthy.

Debt is #1. Marrying the wrong person might also be #1 as it leads to the same.

As a middle-aged man I can tell you: YOU ARE NOT AS FAT AS YOU THINK! Not only fat, it'll be the same with ANY other adjective you write in that sentence because time goes by and we're not the same we used to. However this is a great thread because the experience of the elder ones might help lots of young people out.

Typical mistakes and how to prevent them:

OVERWEIGHT - Enjoy all types of food but KEEP A BALANCE! (fruits, pasta, meat, vegetables) - Exercise! (Don't run 2 marathons in a week but, practice some sport and go to the gym from time to time)

BAD MOOD AND BOREDOM - HAVE FUN! Working and studying all day will only make you realize that one day you're 30 and you have not enjoyed life. - IF POSSIBLE,

BALDNESS Well, this one is tricky because hair treatments don't work for anyone. Nevertheless, just try new styles such as a grown beard! Girls and even men love that!

ECONOMIC ISSUES Well, the system says that if you go to university you will have beautiful children, a great job and succeed in life. I'm sorry to tell you that IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT! You may either start sailing nails and maybe have your own company in a couple of years or be a great lawyer who works for a big company as just...one more "slave" lawyer. So, it is not degrees but ATTITUDE AND COMPROMISE what MATTER in life!

I think you all will be fine with all this knowledge for now.

Best Regards,

GodAtheism

Not investing in a 401k that your company matches.

Not taking care of their teeth

Living with this mentality:

"Eh, maybe I'll do [insert thing here] someday... I'm only in my twenties and have plenty of time."

Credit cards.

Decide how many kids they want to have

Not understanding the basics of credit card use. People see credit cards as free money they can pay off later, when that mentality is exactly how you fuck your self.

If you're spending more than 30% of your credit card before paying it off and cancelling it then you're doing it wrong.

Taking their good health for granted, or otherwise ruining their good health of future good health by partying too much.

If they get a decent paying job but then squander all of their income.

Getting into a lot of debt, for example with credit cards and loans.

Having unprotected sex, especially if it's with people they hardly know.

Doing nothing. For example, spending all of their free time sitting at home, gaming, watching tv etc.

Not enough chicks

Getting a DUI. Getting pregnant or fathering a child out of wedlock. Having sex with someone under 18 and getting convicted of a sex crime. Getting a credit card in freshman year of college and maxing it out.

Don't settle too soon, for anything, job, partner, where you'll live. Don't be afraid to take chances. Absolutely nothing about your life is set in stone. You'll hit the end of your twenties thinking you've got this shit mastered,but the next decade of life will come along & change everything you think you know about yourself. Relax & enjoy the ride, it's going to keep changing every decade if you're lucky.

having kids before becoming financially stable

Kids.

Marriage.

Don't learn life skills.

Learn how to cook. Learn how budget. Learn how to make friends as an adult (it's a different skill set than when you are in school). Learn how to treat yourself responsibly. Learn how to get a job.

Find things that you enjoy. Find a calling and fulfillment that categorically is NOT your job. Develop hobbies that are sustainable. Find things that give you joy: whether this is religion or writing or volunteering or gardening or whatever. You are responsible for your own joy.

Take care of yourself. See the doctor. Get therapy (for everyone). Eat as well as you can afford - learning to cook will help this.

drugs

Ignore credit, I did that and now when I want a new car I've gotta build from 0 and medical bills.

Paying no attention to your Credit File. There's no excuses nowadays considering just how free it is to find out what it is and how to improve it.

Buy a brand new car with money you don't have.

What car did you buy?

Haha not me, my cars have always been 5+ years old and paid for with cash. I'm talking about the stereotype of young guys buying brand new $40,000+ cars with ridiculous interest rates.

Don’t live like you know it all. That’s for the teenage years. Love and live like you’ve got everything to learn. It will shape your future and you’ll be better because if it. Don’t regret it either.

As long as you don't get arrested, addicted to anything, or have a baby you'll be alright

Too many credit cards. You don’t need a card from every store you shop in. Have one credit card and pay it off every month. Once a year hold a small balance over to the next month to help establish good credit, but don’t buy anything you can afford to pay off at the end of the month. It will end up costing you way more than it’s worth. If you have an emergency, you will still have the credit available.

Not saving and spending all your money in bars.

Don't have children you aren't financially prepared to raise. Really derailed my buddy's purpose and long-term goals, but at least he's trying to be a responsible father. I can say the same for another girl I know, she's 23 and has two children.

Don't let toxic people hang around your life very long -- they multiply and then you wake up and realize that the people you've known the longest are not the type of people who care about you. Or who you care about.

This includes family.

Healthy, good people attract healthy good people. If your time is spent around toxic, manipulative people, that's an opportunity cost.

Source: I'm old and have had way too many toxic people - family, significant others, coworkers -- slurp up all my time. I'm trying to make up for it now.

Fuck around with hard drugs.

Heroin, don’t start shooting heroin. Seriously the biggest mistake you can make.

Not staying true to yourself in whatever shape or form. Getting in the wrong relationships, trying to change hairstyle/physical self to fit in, not loving yourself/standing up for yourself, trying to win the approval of people you don't need, partying to hard etc.

Going to college and racking up debt without knowing what you want to do in life. If you don't know what degree you want in order to secure a profession you think you want, go learn a skilled trade. Call your local electrician's union, plumbers union etc. You'll be getting paid while learning a trade. If you figure out what you want in life and but involves college, great, quit the trade and go to school. You may even find out you love being a skilled tradesman. Then you just keep at your apprenticeship, become a journeyman and make great money doing that.

staying stuck in a shitty job holding out for a "raise" not realizing that this is the economy the world has been preparing us for for generations...

I went from making $8.50, to $12.00, to $50k/salary (in 1.5 years, current position for a little over a year), and now looking into jobs (one of which I am supremely confident I will get) into $75-100k+ range. All because I wasn't afraid to let go, and trust myself.

Dude. Everything can fuck up your life in your 20s.

Addiction....whatanightmare

Leaving someone who is perfect for you or not making sacrifices for that person, because you think the grass might be greener.

Get stuck in a relationship thinking if they leave they won't find someone. If things arent great, guy or girl, get out! You have a life ahead of you, don't get trapped. Don't be afraid. More people will come around.

Trusting in those that value money and worrying about those that don’t. Or vice versa. Regardless of your age, your biggest mistake will be regretting your past decisions. Embrace your rights and wrongs and be happy that you still have the chance to choose your future

Credit card debt

Spend too much time on Reddit

buying an investment property

Having spent my 20's hooked on heroin, I don't know how to answer this.

To not HAVE FUN. You must do whatever you can to enjoy these years! Don’t become an old man/woman/BLT filled with regret. You never know what is around the corner...

Keeping toxic "friends". You don't need those kinds of people in your life and you're better off without them.

Debt.

Basically, tell yourself this: If a subject is interesting enough for you to go dump a mountain of cash into, then you certainly won't mind doing some research on it at the public library first. That's where you can test your interest. Find out if this is really your calling. Are you REALLY interested in this? Are you just devouring books on this topic?

If you can't get yourself to the library, then don't go get some student loan, "buying yourself a career" and end up just going through a program because of expectations or because of some "well ive already gone this far..." bs.

Test your passion. Go read about it at the library. Are you yawning uncontrollably? Or are you having a hard time letting the damn books go.

Pay your 30 to 100+k only when the public libraries and the internet have nothing more to offer, when it becomes absolutely necessary in order to progress, if your mind still CRAVES for more. That's when you go.

Or if you come to a point where you basically just need the credentials or the connections to get some work done.

Not realizing that you're free.

And yes, I know and agree - we're all slaves to capitalism except for the ones of us that are rich enough not to be. That's not the kind of free I mean.

What I mean by free is that you don't have to do what you've been told you had to do. Don't want to go to college? Don't. You are free to no longer talk to your parents if they're abusive. Leave (or don't leave) your hometown. You can break up with that boy and date girls like you actually wanted. You can get a mohawk, a tattoo, a motorcycle.

I'm not saying these are things that should impulsively done, or done at all. Yet, so many people never look up to see that the lid was taken off the box someone else put them in. Look up.

Having kids. It won’t make your boyfriend love you.

Eat healthy. Don’t wait until you’re out of shape/sick to whip yourself back into it, not only will it be a lot harder but you can potentially have done some pretty serious damage to your body depending on how little and for how long you’ve let yourself go (this includes drinking responsibly and eating a fresh veg once in a while).

Taking the good people and good times from granted.

As i scroll through other peoples advice, I disagree with almost everyone. Saving money is stupid. Go have an awesome time, do whatever you want regardless of what people tell you, make all the mistakes people warned you about. Travel all the time. Learn about yourself and what you actually like and feel and who you are and you'll eventually have the confidence and awareness to do even better things. Just be grateful. All the time. See people who dont get to do what youre doing and remind yourself how lucky you are to be doing it because you are no better than anyone regardless of what choices you both have made that led you here.

Opening a whole life insurance policy as an "investment."

I see alot of people posting sound financial advice, some right and proper tips for not screwing yourself over, and keeping in shape. While its good to keep yourself physically and financially straight, here is a two parter advice that I havent seen yet.

1 - Not keeping in contact with family. Basically, keep in contact with friends and family over the years. Life can get hectic, and at times will sweep you away from them. They will be going through the same, and if you ignore those bonds, many will fade away. So try to keep in contact with them.

2 - Not getting out and about, and just staying in one place. This right here can take the form of getting out and traveling in your home country and/or abroad, or in other matters, like moving to a new location for a better job. Both are rewarding when done sensibly, and sometimes its for the best. Though, I cant stress enough the whole, taking a vacation once in a while (and yes, this is a "if you can afford it thing").

3 - Not taking time out for yourself. I have noticed in myself in the past, and other 20 somethings now and forever, that they dont take time to slow down and unwind. Whether it be through a hobby, walks on the beach, or just going for a walk to think. Not many folks see the wisdom in that, but it is there. If you find yourself always working or schooling yourself away, take a day or so to just slow down and let your thoughts flow.

EDIT: General editing

Your 20s are the perfect time to do that one thing that you can always look back on and say "wow, I STILL can't believe I did that!"

Not saving for retirement. Seriously. Start a Roth IRA and put money away, or look at a high yield savings account. But put something away every month. Compound interest, when you can find it, will pump that up even when you're not looking.

Drugs. Simple as that

Credit cards.

Not investing in real estate or anything really.

Don't screw up your credit. Easy to do, hard to fix.

Crack cocaine

Save money and invest it. Even investing in something as simple as the dow jones is going to pay dividends for the rest of your life (I've heard of cases where people made more money off of interest during retirement than they actually made working). That doubling time is wonderful if you start the ball rolling early.

Don't put off medical problems. Seriously, even if it seems like a pain, go get them checked out. There's a good possibility that it may be something worse than you imagined and get a lot worse later. This is my biggest regret.

Honestly, not going for it and trying new things. Granted I’m only 22 so maybe I’m wrong, but I was a very shy and depressed dude for a while due to circumstances outside my control. But ya know what? Recently I’ve just gone out more, gone a little crazy, met some people, and have been enjoying myself. Obviously don’t be a bad person, do anything illegal, etc. But if you’re unhappy with your life, you’re young!!! Do something about it!!!

Thinking they are in their 20s and have plenty of time. It’s so easy to enjoy your 20s and just have fun and then BAM you’re 35 and still working a dead end job barely making above min wage with no savings and have nothing of value. Then you feel like you’re playing catch up and there’s never enough time, energy or money.

Best advice is to act like you only have 10 years to set yourself up. You don’t want to be retirement age with a ton of ailments and being forced to work full time because you screwed off when you were younger.

Wasting money and not taking their first real job seriously. I've seen many people fuck up in their twenties and never able to recover.

Spending too long with the wrong person. Oh and not wearing sunscreen!

Racking up debt to impress others whether it be friends or a significant other.

Unsafe sex.

Getting into debt.

Open contract in the military

Volunteer, intern, find something that remotely interests you and see if the military can accommodate for it. There's too many medically dreaming people working on tanks, or jets, or computer guys being infantry. Don't let some quota sucking recruiter steal 4-6 years of your life.

Drinking and driving

Start saving. Now!

Wasting your time on people who treat you like shit

Credit. Cards.

Kids are expensive, don't get pregnant or cause someone to get pregnant before you have savings and a job.

Realizing what you think you want to do right now will be vastly different in ten years. (Most likely)

Focusing on the mistakes you made when you were younger, and instead of admitting you weren't and won't ever be perfect, dwelling on them. Instead of admitting you were a dumbass and looking to move forward in a constructive way.

Falling in love, not saying it can’t happen. But for almost all of my friend and myself. Anytime someone used this word in our 20s it ended up a shitstorm within a year. Just have fun and don’t take thinks too seriously relationship wise.

why oh why do I always decide to read these threads before I attempt to sleep

Not going to the dentist.

BY COOKING YOUR OWN FOOD, YOU COULD SAVE A LOT OF MONEY, AND PAY STUDENT LOANS FASTER, AND RETIRE EARLIER

Eat out everyday, for just about every meal. That $4 coffee and $2.75 brownie from Starbucks, $15 meal for lunch, then $20 dinner adds up really fast. Thats $1,252.50 for just 30 days.

If you prepare your meals at home, you could spend the $15 you spend on lunch, and get better quality home cooked meals for your whole day. Thats only $450 for the 30 days.

Think about it, if you spend roughly the same on meals like i outlined in the first paragraph, and then switch to the second paragraph, you could save around 800$ a month. $800 more a month towards your student loans, or towards a retirement or savings account could help you in the long run.

If you want help on ideas meal prep for work, check out /r/MealPrepSunday, as a starting point.

Doing what "makes you happy". Spend your 20's finding meaning in your life and do what makes you great.

Partying too hard, too often.

The party people in high school and university didn't age as well as the ones who were moderate about it. Have fun, but don't have ALL the fun all at once.

Getting a credit card and believing you can just pay it without planning properly.

Don't live beyond your means. It's ok to tell your friends no you can't go to this function or out to eat for every single meal. Live within your budget.

Not realizing that the most important money you save for retirement is the EARLIEST money you save for retirement.

https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/how-teens-can-become-millionaires

For-profit “colleges”.

Although i'm only 27, years already seem drastically shorter. I'm gonna wake up and be 35 soon.

Going to college thinking they can't get a scholarship so they just suffer with debt

I suppose it's not exclusive to your twenties but I'd say clinging to a relationship that clearly isn't working because you're worried you'll be "past it" and won't find anything better.

You can end up wasting a lot of time (that could be spent enjoying yourself, having new experiences etc.) agonising and struggling with stuff that when viewed objectively isn't that big of a deal.

Not knowing yourself, and therefore second-guessing yourself. If it's taking away from your happiness, it's gotta go. If it's just kinda there, it's lazy. Get rid of it.

Getting into a long-term relationship, putting other people ahead of career choices that will affect the rest of your career (don't give up a great job for a relationship).

Not thinking about saving for retirement/your future.

Getting married. Don’t do it !!!!!!!

Don’t get stuck on petty things. Enjoy life as much as you can. Money, career, saving all are very important as lot of people have pointed out. But so is the friends you make in younger years, doing stupid stuff with them, traveling. It’s all part of growing up.

Not saving any money! Put aside something, anything that you can afford to in an account that you won’t touch. You’ll thank yourself later.

Not owning your mistakes or taking responsibility for your actions and how they affect others

20 somethings seem to have a real problem owning up to their mistakes

When you own it and take responsibility, you are telling the affected person/people that you “get it”, and it won’t happen again.

Much better than trying to sweep it under the rug and act like it never happened

Own it

Debt, debt and debt.

Peaking by reaching front page only to be forgotten forever

Graduating from college with a tech/engineering degree, getting your first job and buying an $40K entry level luxury car (Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Audi).

This sounds like something I would try to justify myself doing. How would you go about doing this now? Wait a couple years? Not do it at all? Buy a 20k car?

I'd buy a $20K car.

Having a luxury car is GREAT when you first get it. After a year the novelty wears off. Then it's just a car. If you finance it say on a 4 or 5 year loan, in year 2 you're not paying for the same car you drove off the lot. You're paying for just another car. After the novelty wears off, you may want to do other things - like travel, take up a hobby, etc - but you are invested financially in the car and can only do so much. It also impedes your ability to save money in the long run, for a house or whatever.

Not traveling.

Quitting college without a backup plan

Seems like debt & money's been well covered;

The biggest mistake is not getting to know yourself as much as you can. People that constantly go through life going "now why the hell did I say that?" or "why does every relationship end in disaster", people who are always angry - I think they're not honestly looking inward. Many of us carry baggage around that we don't face, or we don't think the things that caused it are worth dealing with (bad parents, etc.) If we weren't molested by our uncles, we're like "it's all good". But often it's not all good.

If you hate your job - hell, if you don't love your job... ask yourself if there's anything you really love to do that has a career path. Try to push your life that way. If it's "well sure, but it would take 20 years to get there", get started. 20 years will fly by. Getting up every morning thinking "what will I get to work on TODAY???!" is really a wonderful thing. I had a checkup after 20 years doctor-free and he couldn't believe I wasn't on antidepressants - "everyone is, you know". Told him I have a blast working and a great family - he said "Got it, we just don't see much of that".

If the real estate market is strong and you like your area - consider buying a house as early as you can. Even something small. Houses around me have doubled in value in ten years, I'm glad the wife and I really scrimped and did it. You can get stuck with a big boat anchor, so get good advice and decide if it's right for you. Home ownership is one of the few paths to "the American Dream®" that's fairly widely available.

"I can totally repay that amount later on!"

Not having your first hungover

Abusing one's liver. It'll catch up to you sooner than you think.

Deferring student loan payments

Unprotected intercourse, seriously STDs are real, and the most expensive and life changing STD is unplanned pregnancy. Just don't do it

Wasting time dating people that you can't see yourself marrying (if in fact you do plan on marrying some day)

Getting into a relationship with someone and building your household budget around both of you always having a job.

Layoffs happen. Kids happen (and daycare is expensive). Accidents happen. One of you decides to go back to school.

...oh, and breakups and divorces happen, too.

You don't want to be stuck in a place where you can't afford to pay the rent without dipping into your savings every month with no relief in sight. Believe me, I've been there.

fall in love with the idea of someone rather than the person they are

Going to jail

Fall for the person that makes you excited but isn't really good for you as a partner. That seems to be a 20s thing.

  • Having kids

  • Financing a car

  • Going to college to study the wrong field

  • Getting landed in jail

  • Pile up debt from the hospitals, dentists, etc.

Not beginning to save for retirement.

Having kids

Don't drink and drive.

Definitely not drinking and driving, EVER. I got so many of these comments.

Oh sorry I should have ctrl-F'd it lol

Ugh. Second time seeing a post like this and I got the exact same feeling the last time I read through it. “Welp. I fucked up.”

Am 31.

Not taking that lead/management position because a 15 cent raise isn't worth the hassle of dealing with the extra responsibility and realizing 10 years later that no one is looking for someone who's only relevant experience is customer service and cashier.

We're all underpaid. Get over it so you can leverage it later in life.

Not wearing a condom because it feels better. You know what feels even better? Being STD and child free.

  • Stop Working out.
  • Credit Card
  • Don't go out and explore the world and get some stimulus from folks different than you and your gang (backpacking, hostel, hiking trips)

Money an health

Borrowing money to buy things thinking it'll make them happier. I have had many friends that later spent years living austere lifestyles to get back to no debt. They all celebrated crossing the $0 point again.

Spending large sums of money on meaningless thing

Credit cards, not going to college, not sleeping with that girl you had a chance with, getting married too early/ having children too early, buying a house/car thats above your means, gambling, not staying in shape or eating healthy. Think thats everything I did wrong

Letting a relationship dictate your path in life. I know this sounds like an obvious thing, but that’s the single biggest mistake I made. I followed a boy to college, even picked the major he told me to. Shockingly, the relationship was a total disaster. Ugh.

Also, letting work be more important than family and loved ones. I missed out on the last Christmases with my grandfather, all because I was too afraid to take time off of work. I was making $8 an hour, and there is no universe where it was worth it.

Man, reading this 4 months before my 30th birthday, I fucked up.

Don't fuck you body up. It'sa hard one for sure. I took one bad jump off a ski ramp and it's pretty much ruined my back. I take 5 a pills a day just manage the pain not make it go away. A slipped disc is a bitch. When you can, put money away. I started this when I was 18. I grew up poor so I just hoarded everything I ever made. My wife and I make a very good living now but still live like we make $50k a year total. It's just ingrained in our minds that we don't have money. So we put away about half of what we make a year. Which has been great.

Spending time worrying about what you should do in your 20's.

You should do whatever you feel like in your 20's. Live like you'll die by the time you're 30. Because in many ways you do. You lose lots of oppurtinies you'll never have again and you'll regret not living life to the fullest.

Not starting to save for retirement even if it's 20 bucks a month. Start now!

Getting injured and getting prescribed opioids for pain management — therefore becoming dependent and addicted to said opioids. Very slippery slope.

[deleted]

I'm in something of that nature now. I've been close friends with this guy since middle school. But ever since he got a 2015 mustang gt 2 years ago, All he does is go to car meets and post videos of him reving on Instagram. My birthday just passed and didnt even get a hey.

I've stopped trying to reach out to him since last year and I'm unsure if I should just grow up and keep in touch or just let our already very little interactions die all together.

Lose friends. It's one thing if things are siffere, but don't let small things break apart good relationships, because they will be there while you try to figure shit out.

Not establishing credit early enough. Even a small limit credit card that you only put $50/month on & pay off on time will help your credit a good deal & show that you are responsible enough to make payments of time for other things. Don't wait!

There are credit card limits that low? Does it depend on which bank that can offer that kinds stuff?

When I got my first card from a credit union, my credit was sub 500 due to defaulting on a student loan. They gave me a $750 credit limit on my first card. Taking advice from my sister with perfect credit, I only put ~$50 or so (whatever is very easy to pay off) a month on my card & have always paid on time. After doing this & paying off my student loan every month, my credit slowly climbed. After I got my car loan & added that in, my credit soared. I now have very very good credit & a $3k credit limit on my card.

Oh shit that sounds easy enough. I dont buy anything expensive, being a broke college student and I'm just saving up to buy a car really. Can I just get a credit card with 500 limit on it and just not buy anything? I thought that was a bad thing to do.

I mean you can.. but it won't do anything for you unless you use it. Also, let the charge sit on your credit card for like a week before you pay it off. Don't rush home & pay it off immediately. It has to 'accrue', or so I'm told.

Thanks a lot for the sound advice man. I appreciate the insight as well.

No problem dude. Just remember: These companies give you cards hoping you'll be late. Good luck bud!

Go into a stupid amount of debt getting a car or house or whatever.

You WILL pay for that shit. And it is gonna suck hard.

Not establishing any lucrative or otherwise hobbies. The earlier you start, the more time you'll to master your craft.

Not establishing good a good credit score!!!

Being taken in by disruptive peers, joining gangs and turning into an arse.

Kids should be #1, #2, and #3.

Having kids.

Get enough sleep, don't pull all-nighters, it will simply destroy your ability to remember and recall things.

There are two mistakes that you’ll never recover from: getting convicted of a crime ( even if you serve no jail time at all your life is fucked), and having a baby too soon. If your a guy, child support takes a huge part of your paycheck, and obviously a girl has the actual baby.

Thinking retirement is too far away to start saving.

Well if your 20 something right now I would say not gambling on crypto! Of course don’t throw everything you have at it! But be involved for sure.

As someone about to graduate college, I've realized that people who live exuberant lifestyles or who spend a lot of money tend to be in the worst amount of trouble. I've learned that:

  • you shouldn't spend too much money. Be careful with it. That extra $5 you spend at the store can mess up your budget later.
  • you shouldn't move too quickly in relationships. Know them. How they act when they're sad, angry, etc can affect you.
  • you have to be careful especially in relationships because people with innocent faces can have malicious intents and they can be toxic. I'm talking about friendships/relationships/any interpersonal interactions.
  • You shouldn't move in with people unless you fully know they are reliable. I've heard from a friend how her roommate isn't paying her half of the rent and she is stressed about it.
  • Don't get fancy things until you're in a position to get aforementioned fancy things.
  • Don't do things without researching the risks first. This goes for any jobs, etc you may do. Know what is expected of you.
  • Don't settle down too young. People change and grow as they age and everyone matures differently. A lot of people my age have children and they talk about how they regret being tied down before they've gotten a chance to explore and do things.
  • Last but not least, don't change yourself for others. If you like being a nerd and you enjoy nerdy things, don't try to act like a jock to try to impress people. Don't let toxic people try to change you. Enjoy being yourself because you're unique. A lot of people in their 20's have a lot of pressure to be perfect: finding the perfect job, perfect marriage, the list goes on and on. You can still be yourself even if things may not be turning out right, and the biggest mistake you can make is changing yourself to try to fit into a relationship or friend circle.

I'm sorry for the wall of text, but this is what I've learned.

Lifting things inappropriately, seriously find a friend to help out. I'm 31 and may have ruined my life due to 20s impatience

Staying in a dead end job. Not finishing school. Staying with the wrong person for too long. Not saving money. Just put a weekly amount away and FORGET about it. Not spending time with your parents/grandparents, etc. Not appreciating your youth. Not staying active and in shape. Oh yes, definitely SMOKING!

Not take care of your teeth.

Not saving up or investing and planning for their older years. Wasting their youth. Not going out and looking for a job. Not having a sense of direction about their career. Not taking care of their health. Not making more friends and widening their social circle. Not treating their parents well.

These are some of them but I can't think of more at the moment. But without these mistakes I wouldn't be who I am today.

Source: my own life

not studying for the SATs, fuck algebra in its uthera with a red-hot razor blade.

Not listening to the right people for advice and listening to the wrong people for advice. Somewhere in there is listening too much to others and not nearly enough to oneself also.

Not using condoms.

Smoking.

Ive heard youre in your prime in your early 30's. Not true if you abuse your youthful 20s.

Just fucking talking constantly

Ignore their health. I hadn't gone through puberty at 19 and was being treated for a disorder related to that, so when I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease and type 2 diabetes it didn't seem like a big deal in comparison.

I spent 10 years ignoring my diabetes, not taking my meds regularly and generally being a cunt. At 29 I came to terms with how my self-destructive behaviour was because I was deathly unhappy. Came out as transgender and decided to get my shit together.

Eating better, excercising etc, but I have terrible neuropathy in my feet which stops me sleeping, dizzy and fainting spells and generally feel like shit all the time.

What I'm trying to say is, don't be me. I lost the genetic lottery but then I also failed to take care of myself in any meaningful way and now I'm paying the price.

Don't be me. You're not invincible.

Avoiding and/or ignoring politics.

You are going to be around a LOT longer than you realize. Being involved in politics NOW allows you to better shape your future. It also allows you to make more informed decisions without having years of being jaded clouding everything up.

Plus, you are the first generation who doesn't really remember a time before the internet. The people running things now remember when there was no TV. Some remember riding in a brand new Ford Model T as a kid.

Try explaining Snapchat to your great-grandparents, and then realize that them and their peers are running the country.

Not saving/thinking about retirement. I wish I had started when I was in my 20s!

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/27/nerdwallet-charts-show-the-power-of-compound-interest.html

Going to College and not actually trying to learn something either useful or that you want to work in eventually. Those 4 years may be a ton of fun but if you leave without anything useful you won't know what to do next in life. Source: someone who is about to graduate in an albeit useful major without any plans or preparations for what to do next

The most obvious is not being careful with your money. But at 29 years old and from what I have seen happen around me: don't get into a serious relationship if you're trying to be an entrepreneur.

Becoming an alcoholic. Trust me, I'm currently there and it's ruining my relationships and career.

planning your life out

Not finishing college, partying too much, and misusing credit cards.

Not investing... even a little bit can make a huge difference. DRIP accounts are fantastic for this.

Not saving money and leaving it alone except for major emergencies.

Not putting money away for retirement.

Retiring.

Biggest things I can think of are school and credit.

Not everyone is in the right mindset for college right out of high school so rather than going all in with a student loan at 16-20 credits per semester in whatever to keep up with a 4 year uni curriculum your mom picked, just take it easy at 12 credits at a local community college in general studies or business/management so you still count as a full time student, and explore adult life in the meantime, part time jobs, internships, etc. If it's about money, then 6 credits a semester at a community college will get you an associate's in 5 years or less, and trust me, once you are mid to late 20s, that associates is going to boost your hireability anywhere. Plus by then if you already have a full time job, you can complete an online bachelors degree from a state university by transferring those 60 odd credits and have a BS in whatever before you're 30, which again will open so many doors for you once networking and work experience reach their ceiling.

With credit, I'm not even talking about straight up ignorant things like "not playing into the credit card scam" or going "all cash," but rather silly things like not paying your phone bill and ignoring those collection calls which result in a 250 point dip in your score, and can blacklist you from certain job positions that do a credit and background check. Just read up on credit building, start with a couple secured credit or student credit cards from large banks, and enjoy 850+ credit by the time you are in your 30s and ready to buy a house.

Having kids.

Poq

Not taking care of your health. Don't think it is something you will pay attention later on. The more you take care of your physical and mental(yes, this as well) health the less problems you'll face in your adult life.

The worst thing i did in my 20’s was get credit cards, car loans and other personal debt. If you have not already fell into the debt trap don’t every consider it as an option, if you are already in the trap find a way out of the trap and never put yourself in the situation to fall into the trap again

Taking out student loans. Don't do it.

Become addicted to Heroin, or Methamphetamine by way of prescription painkillers and prescription ADD medication.

By the time I had turned 18 the prescription pill epidemic over here in the good ol’ U.S was in a flourishing crescendo. Everybody experimented, or knew many peers who did.

Most outgrew it, some didn’t. Some of the one’s who tried the harder shit found it overwhelming. Some couldn’t afford the shit or caught a possession charge and found their place as a cog in the PIC. Some found the scene just too damn obscene and dangerous.

But, some yet remained. I graduated college in 2016 with a bachelors degree in Information Security with honors. I commissioned as a second lieutenant in the United States Marine Corps three months after my 22nd birthday.

On my 24th birthday I had my third seizure, and was kicked out of my mother’s house. I’ve been sober since. 20’s are a tumultuous time of change, uncertainty, and understanding/coming to peace with who you are. A lot of people I knew who had predispositions for addictions really blew their life up. It is an affliction.

EDIT: If you’re an addict, there is a whole different reality waiting to embrace you and love you. If you know someone who is, try and understand how their shoes feel.

Picking a college major because they like it. Instead of picking what you're good at, or what is in demand.

I’m amazed no one has said to contribute as much as you can to a Roth IRA and a 401k if your employer matches. You can withdraw from a Roth IRA if you ever need the cash.

Getting married

Drink in moderation and don't forget about your skin, ephasis on facial skin. If you don't take care of your skin in early 20s, you'll regret in late 20s.

Stringing together months and years of "zero days"

Giving up just because you failed one year of a degree or because you didn't get a job from it or because you found out that you actually hated what you thought you'd like.

We live in an age where a degree gaurentees very little, sometimes damn near nothing, so don't count it as the be all of your life. Keep striving for better things.

Having kids without having a foundation for them to grow properly

Having more kids than you can afford, having any before you own a house

Murder.

Starting to play osrs

Not wearing a condom

Don't be afraid to fail. In fact fail harder. Take chances on opportunities. Heading into my 30s my biggest regrets have to do with playing things too safe.

Doing anything because of a significant other.

Fall in love. Get in very consuming relationships before having something figured out in life. Have children. Do: buy a house, you will be done paying it while you’re still young.

Having too much fun, living the nightlife, party life-style, then feeling sorry for themselves, and acting like a victim, scared to death of the future. Suck it up, and get it done. Write down very specific goals and go do it, no excuses. -- Obviously this is a reflection of my own expierences. Good luck, have ur fun, but work just as hard to be successful. Life goes quick, your 20's are unbelievable, but (if your lucky) there is a lot of life in front of you.

Not looking after your teeth properly. You're teeth have to last you a long time bro

I'm going to be turning 27, so I'm not out of my 20s yet, but here's what I learned so far:

Not getting the right college degree with a career plan has already been mentioned and I agree with that 100%. I majored in psychology, and I'm actually lucky I got a decent job (job, though - not career) with it, but what I really wanted to do requires a masters and who knows when I'll go back to school for that. It would be a good idea to develop a specific skill set while in college so you can have an actual career with your bachelors.

Wasting time/not finding a balance. I have a tendency to be more serious and plan things out a lot, but I am starting to think I should have had a more work-fun balance in my early 20s. I'm not even talking expensive things that others have mentioned on here (like traveling), even just little fun activities every once in a while. Sometimes I get tunnel vision and forget the present. My idea of fun has been books/movies/tv/games, and I reallyy could have branched out more and developed more hobbies.

Not meeting new people. I am 6+ hours away from my home town and do not really spend time with anyone other than my husband (and pets), and occasionally, coworkers. I have tried holding on to old friendships, but it is hard, and I could really use having some people to hang with. This is what I'm going to tackle next I hope.

Things I did do right:

Sorry this is against a lot of peoples' advice but I'm married to the love of my life and I met him at 15! Still in love and having a great life together. My advice to everyone, though: don't get married until you feel like you don't have to. If you get married and you think it is going to change your relationship, you shouldn't get married. It is kind of counter-intuitive, but you shouldn't feel the need to get married. Because it really shouldn't be changing things. Also, marry your best friend.

Have finances in order, budgeting well. Not buying a new car.

Not having kids. :P

Start saving for retirement if you haven't. If you don't already have a 401k, start a Roth IRA and put a monthly amount in that you can afford. You can also use it as a rollover account for your Roth 401k when you leave a job so your money isn't just sitting around waiting for you to get a new job.

Take on as little debt as possible. Do NOT use credit cards unless you are able to pay it off before interest accrues. If you can do that, use the credit card just to build up cash rewards. Use the cash rewards as your fun money.

Wasting it, not pursuing things that will enhance your job opportunities.

Learn how to do minor repairs on vehicles and houses. Don't ever start smoking. Stay out of toxic relationships. Use birth control. Stuff is expensive so don't buy stupid shit. That money is better to go into an emergency fund. I had to dip into my own fund when my waterline broke and flooded the neighbors yard (thankfully not their house) so I had to rent an excavator. Afterwards I was still just fine financially. That cushion of cash is a huge help.

Getting pregnant.

Fucking with credit cards, man. Hello, 35k in debt! sigh

Credit card debts, serious, use what you have.

Having children.

Getting married.

Getting fat.

Being complacent with your goals, desires, plans.

Putting off fun crazy shit until you’re “older”. It just gets alharder and harder to commit to. Then you suddenly find yourself trapped by a career, mortgage, kids etc and it never ends up happening.

Thinking you can’t follow and achieve your dream....you can just do it. Just try.

Getting married too young. Loaning money to anyone. Staying in a bad relationship. Not enjoying their crappy but fun job enough, because when you get a “real job” you will probably hate it.

Stop improving yourself. Just because you finished undergrad doesn’t mean you can stop learning and coast through life.

Don’t buy the dream car. Just get something reliable, and that won’t crush your wallet. The goal is to just get credit and prove you can own a car, so that in the future you have a decent line of credit from a car if needed. I see too many folks get the “soldier special” (souped up mustang at obscene rates)

Not being honest with others, or worse---themselves.

Something that starts in your late teens but going to college without knowing what you want to do...or worse going for something nobody is going to pay you to do...don't follow your passion take it with you.

Drinking and driving. Had no reason to, always was against it, got too drunk and it just happened. Be careful with alcohol kids, even if you don’t drink much like I used to.

Don’t rely on pulling out, kids are expensive and you don’t want to have one with just anybody. Don’t drink and drive, don’t even get into a car if the driver “just had one drink”, your life is worth more than that. Treat your credit score like it was a magic key that opens doors no other key can, because it is, its magic. Collage is not for everyone, but it’s most likely or you, suck it up and finish it. It might haunt you forever if you don’t. Enjoy your life, don’t stay indoors playing video games. Ask her out, a no is better than regret. And for the ladies, ask him out, it’s ok to be the one to ask, some guys are shy but awesome when you get to know them. Be your self. Don’t be part of the herd. Dress how you want, have an unpopular opinion, don’t let people mold who you are, you are in charge of your own destiny. Last but not least, don’t be an asshole, no one likes an asshole.

Seeing what heroin is all about

  1. No life plan/direction that isn't feasible and within your means. (I'm going to be a millionaire, while working as a retail cashier with no other tangible skills)

  2. Not saving for retirement in some form. (ROTH IRA, 401K)

  3. Being cocky and getting a criminal record that you think will vanish "someday"

Private student loans to attend graduate school without having a clear path into a high paying job.

These are the things I wished I started sooner.

1) Invest in something (Stocks, Bonds, Retirement)

2) Invest in yourself (Higher Education, Certification, Working Out, Eating Healthier)

3) Find happiness (Career, volunteering, SO)

Not using earplugs in clubs. They give you them for free at the bar, you just have to ask.

Your hearing is precious and, let's be honest, do you really need your skull shaken by the volume of the music? No you do not.

Get some earplugs and enjoy being able to hear both the music and other people talking to you without damaging the one set of eardrums you will ever get.

Getting face tattoos

START SAVING MONEY. Even if its 20/month. Anything. An emergency can ruin your life, if you dont have some savings.

Thinking that credit card the bank gave you is free money.

Credit Card Debt.

I don't know if it was said already but getting an STD or getting/getting someone pregnant

Getting into coke. Shit is pricy and can get you hooked quick. Really hard to get off it. Trust me....

Not taking serious the dangers of drugs (street, prescription and OTC) and alcohol. I'm 26 and had friends ruin their lives from booze, get addicted to meth and die from prescription drug overdoses. Yes, your young body is resilient, but only up to a point. It is 100% possible to develop a crippling addiction in your 20s and the line between partying and problem is thinner than you'd think. Yes, your internal organs can take a bit of a beating, but you are not invincible. Don't take pills and drink at the same time. Ask questions of your doctor. Take your prescriptions EXACTLY as directed. No one should die in their 20s.

Not saving money.

Dating is so overrated in your 20s. Instead, build something for yourself a business or some other type of long term project that creates an income. And yes, save your money and live far below your means.

Do everything in your power to avoid falling into a chronic depression. It can and will ruin your life.

Anything, just ask their parents.

Following a career that's not going to be right for you in the long run.

Getting married and having kids before finishing college and having a job good enough to sustain them.

Not getting laid as often as you can!! You don't need miss right. You just need miss right now!!

Start saving for an emergency and retirement

Become parents....

Not trying things outside their comfort zone. Seriously guys, there are better things/opportunities out there. Do not be too complacent with what you have.

21'st birthday DUI. It will fuck your life over for years. Talking from experience here.

Choosing a major in college that “feels good” instead of one that will contribute to the world and make enough money for you to live comfortably and support yourself/family. Some majors (like gender/feminine studies, some philosophy, and a minority of other liberal arts) only perpetuate the jobs of the teachers who teach these subjects in the first place.

Smoking weed in your car because you’re parents don’t like you smoking or whatever, if you got caught by the police (at least in florida), you risk losing you’re liscence, have to pay a decent fine, and if you don’t have 1500-2000 to drop on a lawyer the courts won’t go easy on you and your consequences can be even worse

Speaking from experience, I’ve been caught twice and now my life isn’t gonna be back on track till I can work 70 hours a week for the next couple of months.

And by the way,paraphernalia and Cannabis charges both carry the same weight, so if you’re caught with a pipe and weed, that’s 2 charges.

JUST DONT SMOKE WEED IN YOUR CAR

Children

There's been a lot of great advice given so far, and without trying to be a contrarian, my best advice is to try to find balance. To realize that a lot of people will give you solid advice, but that sometimes you need to toss that shit straight out the window to add experience to your life.

Everyone forgets what their previous years were like, and tend to the bias that comes with retrospective looks through personal experience. The people that have current money problems, will tell you to save more. The people with relationship problems, will tell you to be more careful in love, and to enjoy being single. Just because these suggestions are anecdotal doesn't mean you should disregard them, it just means they need to be tempered by the realization that someone else learned them by fucking up along the way, and that you should have the same benefit of making mistakes.

On that note, fail early and fail often. Learn to fail better, and learn to fail with grace. In all things, especially in romance. Take chances, because not taking them ends up costing you a lot more in "what if's", though within reason. If you want to experiment, do your reading so that you minimize your risk. Lots of people have enjoyed promiscuity and some recreational drug use and turned out just fine, but there will always be examples set by those who never made boundaries, or simply got unlucky.

The old line that "no one here gets out of here alive" ought to be an inspiration, rather than permission to hurt yourselves or others with poor choices. Life is difficult - no one will claim otherwise - but your 20s ought to be a place to let your curiosity take you where you've never been before.

Early 30's now. I think the few regrets I have are not traveling enough, not having as good of a physique as I wanted, and not getting out and socializing outside of my friend's circle. Get out and do things, get weird. It took me too long to figure out that I need to go out and create a life, it won't drop into my lap.

Not Learning basic maintenance. No matter how old you are. Basic maintenance will save you literally thousands in repairs. This applies to everything you own.

Getting married...

Settling from something when you didn’t explore all of your options

I’m 31 so I’m fresh out of my 20’s. My own personal mistake was settling for shitty jobs because I only cared about partying. I wasted a lot of time and money on booze and drugs rather than education or learning a skill trade. I couldn’t keep a job longer than a year or 2 max and wasn’t willing to clean up my piss or hair to apply for the better paying jobs in my area. Luckily I rebounded by about 27 due to DUI’s and a brush with death because of my poor decisions and focused on my career goals. I started at square 1 in a new field and made very little money but I worked hard and took pride in my work....now I have good paying job with potential to move up and it doesn’t t require back breaking work.

I don’t regret all the fun I had but I do regret letting it be the only thing I cared about. A lot of that “Fun” caused me a lot of trouble and financial hardship. Be smart and learn to have fun but that it’s not fun to be broke and in your parents basement at 25 with no job, license or vehicle.

Oh and start a retirement fund ASAP. Even if it’s just $20 a month for starters.

save, cutback the blazing

I volunteer in an animal rescue centre in a city that is mostly composed of university students and I've seen a lot of people my age, (early twenties) mostly college students adopt animals they're not prepared to look after. Most of them don't have the time or finances to properly care for an animal and 60% of them end up being half cared for by irresponsible students then brought back to us when they want to leave uni or want to travel. People forget that animal adoption is a serious commitment. You're promising to give it a forever home, feed and walk it EVERYDAY and that you'll give it the love it deserves and care for it responsibly. Don't adopt pets in your early twenties if you know you're going to be moving around a lot or have a desire to travel or even if you just don't have the time or resources to care for it properly. It's so unfair on the animal.

Thinking your life is gonna be over at 30 so you should do everything you ever wanted to do in your 20s because your life is gonna end at 30. It doesn’t.

Live your life in your 20s but also live it in your 30s and beyond.

M. Hg y4n40

Burning figurative bridges (although literally doing this is even worse).

Get plastic surgery for cosmetic reasons.

Forget their goals because they fall in love with someone.

Getting married before you really learn to love yourself.

Paying your bills then spending every extra dollar on recreational drugs.

Why is having a kid not at the top of this list?

Getting married early because of outside expectations/influences (ie: societal pressure). Waiting is a perfectly valid option for many people.

enter consumer debt

Debt.

When it comes to inebriation, there is a fine line between a comic story and a tragic story.

Avoid being out-of-control (e.g. drunk, high). If you do intend to be "out of control", do it in a safe-ish setting. You're likely to be learning, but try to keep in mind what you're like when you're inebriated. Like if you like to get into fights when drunk, avoid getting drunk in public (well, at all, really, but at the very least do it with other people who like to fight when drunk so you'll all be on the same page.) Try to avoid doing something regretful when you're horny and inebriated—in fact, avoid being really horny and really inebriated at the same time (e.g. if you're hot for someone, meet them when sober; if you're going to be really inebriated, avoid people you're hot for.)

Marry!

prioritizing relationships over your own mental health

Having kids.

I believe it’s important to live alone at least once in your lifetime. Experience living alone is great. You take the time to learn about yourself. Also, living in a city not suburbs. Something great to experience. Obviously traveling too, but for those who can’t afford to travel, you can still experience great things in a big city.

Being afraid of decisions. I mean of course there are bad decisions you can make, but sometimes a decision is just that: a decision. Ask that girl out. Or don’t. Job A or job B? There’s often no real way to know the consequences of that choice. Sure your life will be different based on your choices. But not making a choice is a choice, and quite often there’s no better choice.

Edit wow I wrote this tired and that last sentence....not what I meant. I meant one choice isn’t better than another, not nothing is the best choice! Ugh.

So, choose to do nothing? Great...

Buying a new car. Seriously, fucking don’t.

Getting pregnant and/or married

Door to door sales people. Don't even answer the door, if you see them and they see you just don't even.

Credit card debt.

Not saving enough, no matter how small.

Don't listen to anyone who isn't where you want to be in life.

Making stupid choices and going to jail. The record will haunt you for a long long time, and I will probably be seing you at the plasma center afterwards.

From all these commenta, Of get that kids is the worst thing that can happen to someone.

Not setting goals, confusing on the career choice and blaming others for whatever happened to them rather than taking responsibilities. Losing respect by not giving respect to relations.

Getting married

In general, acting like you have life figured out. Nobody has ever benefited from rushing into thinking they know everything there's to know. Alway keep learning and absorbing.

Not taking appropriate risks. Don't be afraid to take a risk if you have something to fall back on. Great people didn't become great by not taking risks.

Feeling like you have to know it all, have it all figured out. No one does, just keep trying. Relax.

For the love of all that's holy, turn the volume down. I spent years blasting music through speakers and headphones. Now that I'm in my 40's, I'm suffering from tinnitus which is characterized by a constant whirring and ringing in my ears. It's maddening (especially when the room is quiet). On top of that, I'm highly sensitive to loud noises, like passing trucks on the highway or loud talkers. Trust me. There's no reason to listen to it that loud...it doesn't make you cool.

Getting married. Or that told me my dad.

Signing a lease with friends. Don’t do it the boundaries and consequences aren’t worth it folks

Murder. That will fuck you life up fast. Suicide too.

Not enjoying yourself.

Look, people might be telling you to save money, eat healthily, start your career etc. but you know what - very soon you could find yourself weighed down with multiple responsibilities.

You won’t be this free again until you retire so god damn it get out there and have some fun.

Not saving for their future.

Getting pregnant/ getting someone else pregnant. I'm 33 and have an 11 year old. She's great, but both our lives would have been better if she had come along later. Now everyone my age is just starting, I missed my 20s, and if I have another they are 12 years apart. Plus there's a chance I'll be a grandma in my 30s or early 40s

If you have mental health issues, or think you might, go to the doctor/counselor. And take your medicine as prescribed!

There is a lot of stigma out there, but there is also a lot of help, regardless of your financial situation. And you CAN get real help!

Don't just white-knuckle it, or think that your problems are too big or too small. And don't be like me and go off your meds, thinking you can just self-medicate with alcohol and pot.

I did end up graduating college and getting a full time job, but it was a tremendous struggle for myself and those around me. Now that I have accepted and stuck with help, life is so much better.

Based on my experience, getting married. More seriously, running up credit card debt, or too much revolving debt in general. Having children too soon, from an economic point of view, reduces your earning power, particularly for women. Failing to keep active when you start your career. It's easy to fall into bad habits with respect to diet and exercise and they get harder and harder to fix as you get older.

Kids

Credit card debt.

Not maximizing company matching contributions. Like throwing away free money.

Die

Getting fat. DONT GET FAT.

-very fat guy

Getting into relationship early just because you think it's a must experience, sooner realize it and told her that we better be single and focus on studies.

I searched every comment thread hoping this was the top or near the top and not a single person said anything about this. I've seen saving, putting away money, but no specific direction and sadly because I'm 5 hours into this question, hardly anyone will see it. So hopefully you do.

Start a Roth IRA if you haven't already. Right now. If you start saving now, by the time you're old enough to take money out of it, you could have $1 million saved for retirement. If you wait 10 years to do this when you think you'll have more money to put away (or whatever reason), it won't grow to nearly as much.

Read up on Suze Orman, she's more passionate about this topic than I am and I've taken most of my cues from her!

Roth IRA!! Go now!!

You’re supposed to make some mistakes in your 20s so you have the wisdom not to make them in your 30s+

Being with someone and saying that everything will get better and then in the end it doesnt.

Not finish their education.

Not starting a retirement account. I started mine at 21, really glad I did.

[deleted]

I said the same thing. If you have it taken from your check as a pre-tax deduction, you don’t lose as much as you think you would because you also pay less tax.

[Serious Reply] Not taking better care of your teeth, and not fucking more.

Buying a brand new car, for sure. You do not need a brand new car in your 50s let alone your 20s. Ask to see a vehicle inspection on a car you want to buy or offer to pay for one.

If the results are good or the person is super against it, dont buy the thing.

You can get 5 to 6 years out of a $2,000 car. Yeah, you wont look cool, but you can survive.

Takin out $100k in student loans for a degree With limited employment potential and a starting salary of $35k

Put a little bit (even if it’s a few dollars) from every pay cheque away to savings. You’ll be surprised how much you can save.

Doing too many drugs and dranks

Not learning to budget and manage money. Start investing now! Even if it’s only $20-50 per month.

You see the stories on tv about kids have a fucked up illness that you never heard about? Guess what kiddo? That shit can very well happen to you and there's your life down the drain, enjoy while you can. Also, save money because you never know when there will be a doctor refusing to give you treatment unless you pay or have insurance.

Two mistakes, which are different sides of the same coin:

Not saving for your future, even if it's just $20 a week (compounding interest in a tax protected plan is beneficial, and even more so when you're at the beginning of your 30+ years of working); and not spending beyond your means. It's enticing to have buying power when you get your first real job with more money than you ever had before, but it disappears quickly in essential (rent, food, transporation) activities and more so for non-essential purchases (the latest tech, trainers/running shoes, makeup, etc). Save and plan for your future - to be wholly dependent on government benefits in your old age is a scary proposition.

Not paying attention to your credit score sigh

Save: open a Roth IRA and put a little in every month. Put in a steady amount over the course of life, but put something in every month, even it's only $10. Prepare: for someone in their twenties, an equity building life insurance policy makes sense. Do it, but seek professional advice first.
Travel: do it as often as you can, for as long as you can. Wait: Don't rush in to marriage. Make yourself a life first, then find someone to share it with.

Going through 25000 from a lawsuit on beer and drugs , really messed my body up physically and mentally. Wish I could take it all back

Taking your grandparents for granted is something you’ll regret for the rest of your life.

The world spins fast in your 20’s, as people have pointed out in this thread; school, work, social life/dating, etc... It’s going to feel like your family will always be there when you’re done with it all, and they won’t. Take the time to get to know them while you still can, because most of us in our 30’s don’t have that option anymore, and it’s not something we can get back.

Don't let being late become a habit. I'm only 21 but I spent my teens being late to everything because I was otherwise a perfect student/employee so I never got any major reprocussions. Now I still struggle with time management and it's starting to effect my personal and professional life.

Not talking to your parents enough. Easily my biggest regret at 45.

Not moving away from your hometown, especially if it is a small town.

The bible says "no prophet is ever accepted in his hometown"

This is so true, if you have big dreams, ambition, talent, skill or just pure determination MOVE.

In your hometown people never see you as what you can be they see you as what you were and are... worst mistake of my life was waiting until i was 29 to figure that out.

I am now 44 and i would do just about anything to get those 11 years back. When i finally did move i had to go through the steps of proving myself to a new market but they didn't have all the preconceptions so when i showed i had the talent and drive they just accepted that. Where back at home i am still my father/mothers son.

Not having a trusted mentor and listening to them and effectively navigating the adult world on your own.

Thinking you have to start a career straight out of college, instead of exploring a few different options. Better to explore and get experience in several fields when you're 22 and have fewer financial commitments (mortgage, family, car payments, etc.) than when you're 40.

Start saving money in your 20's and you'll be able to retire in your 50's.

Kinda wish I went military at 18

Retired at 38 sounds terrific

Sadly, I wasn't one of those who did start saving in theif 20's, hence I retired at 65 because I had to wait for Medicare to kick in.

How's retirement?

Everything you always hoped it would be?

Yes, till now (age 77). Suddenly I'm spending way more on health care and drugs than I anticipated. And I'm in pretty good health I might add. I see problems paying for all this in the near future. Actually, I never figured I'd live this long. When I was a kid, people my age were old farts. Now I am one😂

Not planning for retirement ASAP. If you don’t start contributing early to retirement savings it’s incredibly hard to catch up down the road because it compounds.

Drunk driving

Thinking this is the path for the rest of your life. Plans change and you need to accept this.

Have a kid too young.

Let me repeat this: have a kid too young. Man, this one really messed with some of my friend's lives.

I had a buddy have a kid at 16

We're 27 now

I have no kids. Could not imagine having akid that is 11 lmao

Getting married or hanging out with the wrong people

Reading through this list as a 24 year old and ticking off all the things I’m already doing/ have done 🙃

Let's sum this up.

Don't live on credit. (Live within your means.)

Don't ignoreyour body. (Exercise. Eat plants. Go to the doctor or dentist. And Don't stop.)

Don't wish for things. (If you have a dream work hard to make it happen.)

Do not just get by ( Save for things. House, retirement, vacations)

Don't be a dick. (Be nice)

Time is the only thing you can't make more of. Use it wisely.

Vote. And don't stop.

*right now we live in a capitalist society. This means you can make more money if you want to. So if you are willing to work a little more you can have a little more. Have a side hustle. It could be a Twitch channel. A DIY blog or YouTube thing. Fixing cars. Making quilts. Washing windows. Or whatever...

Having unprotected sex. Some thing stick around for life...

Procrastinating planning for your future.

E.g. All these people are saying, don't get married, don't have kids etc. etc. etc. but if you actually want to have kids. The longer you wait, the harder and more dangerous (to you, to your potential child, or your partner) it gets. I don't think people realize that after 30 the risks of complications start to rise exponentially every year that goes by.

Going to graduate school in the US (aka student loans)

Your actually NOT invincible. Keep going to your regular/yearly doctor and dentist appointments and checkups.

Meth

Overcommitting. It’s better to do a few things well than a lot of things poorly.

Staying at home or within 20 miles of the home you grew up in. It's easiest to move to a new place before you are 30 and set in your ways.

Nothing wrong with staying in your hometown.

I live in Chattanooga and couldn't see myself living elsewhere. Love it here

Better for many if you have at least experienced another place/city. So many people settle for living in their hometowns without exploring to see if it's better or different someplace else. Saying about travel broadening the mind -- it's broadening to live in another place and see people who are different than the ones you grow up with and do different things.

Urinating in public.

Simply not listening more to advice from loved ones.

This could easily be terrible advice, honestly

Not paying off loan and credit card debts ASAP

It maxing our company matching contributions to your 401k. That money adds up over time, with compound interest.

Buying a brand new car instead of saving your money.

Source: I’m 21 and have bought 2 brand new cars.

Look at Mr. Money bags over here 💰

Naw, one day though. I was stupid and said I can make the month payment on time.

What do you work in?

I’m in that retail life

Getting married.

Getting complacent with a shitty job with bosses that treat you like a replaceable gear, paying for a brand new car for five years when you could have bought a used semi-new car with cash, buying minimum coverage for insurance thinking you’ll never get sick/in an accident until it happens and your whole life is fucked, falling in love with someone who isn’t ready to settle down and realizing you dumped a year’s worth of emotions into a bucket with holes in it.

Don't make work your life. That's where I'm at having a near panic attack with a good job just waiting for something else to happen

Submitting to a life of mediocrity

Suicide

having kids

Learn that you live for you and only you. For the most part. If you’re not happy where you are. Everything else will suffer. Hate your job. Your family life will suffer. Hobbies suffer. Friendships. Put you first. Make yourself happy. Get a job you at least like.

Once you’re happy in yourself. The rest will follow. A happy mind makes a happy home.

Don't go to college and get a degree without having plan for what to do with it that is reasonable. I know a ton of people who have more debt without improved jobs because of this.

I'm a big fan of getting an education and it's smart to do so, but do it with some intentional planning as you go.

Your 20's is the only time you can really afford to go nuts, bodily and timewise, but if you do you set yourself up to have a shittier time when you're 30-50.

If you spend your 20's working to make a 6 figure salary, you may get it, or very close to it, but then you're not in your 20's anymore.

And if you try to split your time you don't really get either.

So you kind of lose no matter what you do.

So just make a decision and stick with it, and remember that fear of missing out is a farce, there is never a time when you're going to stop wanting things you don't or can't have.

Feeling like you have to have it figured out. Some people do, and some people throw vasts sums of money into pretending that they do. It's okay to take the first crap job you find, and go back to fix your marks later, or to travel with 20$ and a willingness to work for cash under the table. Both will get you closer to figuring things out, than locking yourself into something that three years later turns out to be awful, but you're too worried about lost time to realize that you are still young enough to reinvent and be fine, so you stay there for forty years and miss everything you would have rather been doing. Short of hi-jinks relating to death, you can pretty much fix anything else you do in your 20s.

Getting married quickly, there are plenty of fish in the sea, just because she's interested in you doesn't mean she's any good for you. Borrowing money or getting loans from financiers: you don't need ANYTHING that badly. Buy everything second hand and as cheap as is practicable. Gaining weight: eat well, eat fresh and I GUARANTEE you it will be cheap eating.

Not finding the right person to be with (though honestly anyone can relate to that right?)

Spending full price on things you can get used or even free, getting married before you know who you are and what you really want from a partner, and investing time and money in an education or job that doesn't really do it for you. Finally, getting a pet that you can't pay for, nor properly take care of, cause like... You're in your twenties.

Brush your damn teeth!

if you have a job where you're considered self employed and need to pay state and federal taxes every year instead of getting refund. FUCKING SAVE MONEY TO MAKE THAT PAYMENT EVERY YEAR. 25% of every paycheck goes in a separate account. that will ensure you'll have enough to pay at the end of the year and probably some left over, which you can either take for yourself and consider it a "refund" or leave there as a savings/towards the next years payment. you could get away with less than 25% if you live in one of the 7 (I think its 7) states that do not have state income tax.

take it from someone who never had anyone to show them how to handle that part of life. you do not want that headache in your life.

School loans

Have unprotected sex

I just turned thirty and this thread scares me ha

Don’t stagnate. Seriously. You might get tired after work, come home, pop open a cold one or smoke a bowl (or both) and browse reddit for a little bit before hopping on discord to game with the bros until you finally afk to masturbate yourself to sleep. You could do this one night, and it be okay. After all, you may or may not be out of college, at which point life just becomes one work day after the next, with some weekend creme filling smushed in between. You could even do this tomorrow, and not really worry about it. Or maybe even the next night. Or the next week. Or the next month, or even the next year. After all, every night is just like the last...

It’s easy to fall away into these wasteful routines while you’re in your 20s, after having graduated school. You won’t even realize it either, probably not even questioning it until you hit your late 20s or 30s. However, if you have aspirations to be literally anything in life... perhaps a professional gamer, stream personality, or professional artist... it’s important to not fall into a ‘relaxing’ routine. Your life will waste away in front of your eyes as you just do the bare minimum to survive. Anything more than that will become stressful and tiring, and ‘not worth the effort.’ You’ll have a few ‘good moments,’ but not enough to constitute a meaningful life at the end of the day.

How you spend your time, no matter how your day went, no matter how you feel at the end of the day, or at the beginning... your actions define who you are as a person, and will shape the path you will take forward for the rest of your life. I’m speaking from the heart here, and from personal experience. Don’t be a loser, don’t stagnate, and if you want something to happen to you, no matter where it may be, you have to make it happen.

Buy a new car! And have shitty credit for 10 years.

Seriously, whatever you do, DON’T fuck up your credit. It’s the most lifestyle changing thing ever.

Picking majors in college based on how easy they are. Just because you get a degree in something doesn't mean you're going to get a good job. Life doesn't work that way.

Having children that you are not ready for. Also not doing some of the things you want to like travel before you have a family

Well, if you want to be well off in the future. Reevaluate your friendships. As someone else mentioned be healthy. Realize that technology is always evolving, you don't always have to have the latest - it'll be out dated in a matter of months anyway. Stay home for as long as you can and save, finish school, travel, but be responsible. Help pay for a bill or groceries. If you have a job get a 401k or invest into something. Read, read, read about things that interest you. Travel if you can be a van dweller do it for awhile.

Take it easy but live life. You never know when death comes knocking at your door.

Eating out ALL THE TIME.

It's easy to spend $30 a day on food which ends up being...almost $1000 a month in food.

The average family of FOUR spends about $400 a month on food. So you spent 2.5x that on 4x fewer people, or in other words, you spent 10x what each person in that family of four spent.

If you're already maxing out your 401k, IRA, etc, then go ahead - splurge. But if you're not, you're robbing from future you to pay for that meal right now.

Alternative?

/r/mealprepsunday

Dating coworkers. It’s a very bad idea and doesn’t usually end well.

Don't get your honey where you make your money

Usually ends with somebody quitting the job to escape the other

Trying to fit within some societal timeline relating to love/marriage/kids. There is plenty of life left to live, so don’t rush into a lifetime commitment like that without being absolutely certain.

Getting married young.

It’s not always bad and it does work out for some people, but if it doesn’t work out then it can ruin you financially for years to come.

All of a sudden I had an apartment that it took two people to afford and I wasn’t able to do so on $10.50 an hour. I had to live off of multiple credit cards to survive and I’m still trying to pay it all back three years later.

Thinking you'll deal with getting your life together later. There is no later. Later is now. Get your career together now, set some goals, take some chances - before you have a mortgage and kids. Learn how to manage your money - and how to set a budget. Learn to adult now, and those habits will help you later. Trust me, if you don't set yourself on a good path in your 20's you could wind up lost and adrift later in life. You will have to work 2x as hard to fix your life in your 40s/50 as you would if you started developing good habits now. I am in some deep shit now - and wish I could go back 20 years and make different choices, I wish I had developed better money and career habits.

Not starting a retirement fund. Starting a 401k even a decade late will redically change your twilight years.

Being tied down. Seriously, don’t own a pet, don’t have kids, don’t buy a house. Save up and go travel the world. You can save 10k and travel for an entire year maybe even longer depending on the destination

My biggest regret is not ever doing a long term travel.

My friend travels 3 years at a time. Comes back to work and save up for 2 years. Then leaves for 3, comes back for 2, over and over. It’s a pretty awesome lifestyle

Getting pregnant, getting someone pregnant.

Always use birth control, and if the other person tells you not to worry about it because they have the birth control covered - run in the opposite direction as quickly as possible.

Not saving for retirement

You are what you do.

Want to improve your life? Do something right now that you believe makes you a little bit better of a person or will help you reach a goal. Put down your phone.

Not being teachable. Looks awful on anyone really.

Drugs. Heroine, meth, pills. Too many 20 year olds do it because its cool or something. Then they turn 35 and theyve been in and out of prison their whole lives, contracted hep. C, are lucky to have a somewhat livable wage job, and end up having 7 kids with 5 different people while they were partying, which fucks shits up even more.

Oh yeah, one more thing. If you're in college/trade school/uni, don't waffle and change your focus/majors. Time you waste doing that is time you don't get back.

Pick your career path, and commit. Put the damned effort in and go for it. If you start to freak out early on, that's normal. If you find it soul crushing and boring... then choose something else. But do it quickly and commit to your new choice, because when it comes down to it, your whole professional future depends on your actions early on. Nobody wants to hire, work for, or contract out to someone who can't make a decision. Trust me.

In the early 20’s, unexpected pregnancies. Children can be a blessing, but having a child when you’re early 20’s trying to seek an education/career is usually a no-no.

My brother's longtime friend since elementary school just died after driving his snowmobile drunk at 60mph into a tree (there is not even snow on the ground). Earlier that night, he was kicked out of the bar at 10:30 p.m. So I'd definitely say drinking and driving. Know your limits, and always have a plan on how to get home safe, guys.

Stop complaining about not learning how to do basic adult things in school, like signing/reading leases, opening bank accounts, buying a car etc. Be proactive, do a google search or go and talk to someone at the bank/car yard/real estate. The amount of memes I see about this day to day is staggering.

Develop bad drinking habits, I'm lucky I caught before I got in too deep.

Don't gain wait. You think I will loose it someday and you will, but being fat ruins your body after losing the weight you will still look terrible.

Careful who you have kids with!

If you keep saying "maybe I should..." then just fucking do it. Whatever it is. Do it. I spent more than a decade saying "maybe I should go to college" while working jobs I don't want to do for the rest of my life. But I finally stepped up and I'm a week away from finishing my first semester of college. So if you're thinking of college, thinking of traveling somewhere, thinking of learning some skill, whatever it is - just fucking do it.

Oh and the insurance your job is offering that you don't want because you're a healthy young person? Go ahead and get it... shit happens and shit gets expensive. I went to get a physical one day, just trying to be all precautionary and shit and told the doc I was having some light stomach pains lately. Oh hey, my otherwise relatively health self now has Crohn's disease. Insurance helped. A whooooole lot... even if I do still have tons of medical debt. It's a lot smaller than what it would be without it. I can also afford prescriptions!

Student loans.

It's a mistake we must do, however.

Saving money when they should be paying off money they already owe.

Friends of mine in there 20s had problems with long term smoking marijuana everyday thinking they won't get any brain damage when they already have it, wild driving that results in killing/hurting permanently themselves or another, dying from drug use, dying in a faultless motorcycle accident, suicide, and getting a worthless college degree instead of a career oriented one. Good luck hope you make it through.

Getting addicted to hard drugs. Things go down real quick.

Getting into any sort of legal trouble, especially a felony.

It's kind of like skydiving, you don't realize how fast it's going by until it's too late to pull the parachute

Self medication and not looking after ones mental health and sobriety.

Living beyond your means and relying on credit to get you through your budget. Credit should be used to gain a rating but not more than you can pay off in a month.
It takes some discipline, but will help you build behaviour that will benefit you for your life.

Quitting studies. Then it's really hard to get back at it. I'm spending my time working and studying at home at the same time, and it's really hard to keep things well! Study hard, kids. You won't regret it!

A lot of posts about money and physical health, but so little about mental health. Everyone needs therapy, even if just to understand why they are the way they are. See a therapist now, not later. It's an investment in yourself and it pays dividends, both material and immaterial. Like all investments, it's best done earlier in life, and it makes everything else in this thread easier to achieve.

Get off of this thread idiot and do you Uni work

Taking ketamine regularly until it fucks up your urinary system and by the time you’re 30 you need to wear pads for when you piss yourself

Bore yourself with small and stupid things and didn’t use 20’s in proper way . By that I mean learning and working on yourself for the future opportunities and work ,also having fun and laugh more :-)

Not investing at least 15% of your income.

Get arrested.

Seriously....even for something stupid. Good luck finding a job

Always try to make and keep friends because you want to spend time with people you like and can help you when you need it. I can't make friends the way things are now. There's no chance.

Make friends. Learn how to make more of them after college while you still have that sphere of people. It can go away, and if it does it's very hard to get back. And more importantly - nurture your friendships. Take time and energy and spend it on people. Everything else fades.

Get married and have kids. Seriously, unless you’re really late 20’s I imagine it’s difficult as shit to support a family in a relationship that’s most likely going to fail. I mean either you’re in college or out of college but entry level jobs are basically high class minimum wage. Unless you didn’t go to college and, well this is gonna sound elitist as fuck, but there’s no way you can afford a kid or a family at that age with no college degree. Don’t get me wrong there are exceptions, but they are not the norm. Most people in their 20’s who get married and have kids get divorced and the kid is the one who suffers since both their parents are paid next to minimum wage and both are resentful of the each other.

Seriously don’t get married or have kids until you can afford the worst-case scenarios like divorce or your kid being born with a disability. Fuck that “everything is solved with love crap”. You will suffer, your partner will suffer, and your kid will suffer.

Car payments.

Fentanyl.

Credit cards. Don't do it. They are almost never a good idea.

Connecting one's student bank account to one's university and going to jail for "writing a bad tuition check"

Failing to obtain a skill or professional license that will support you until you die.

Living with their parents to save money. While it's financially sensible, you lose your twenties in a sense. Live free, drink too much, sleep around too much. There's always time act financially responsibly later in life. Having said that, make sure to lock down a job during this "free" perioid, because it's expensive.

attempting to go to college without full scholarships and or working somewhere that will reimburse you for the education. work a crappy job for probably low wages while learning a few skills, gaining experience, and getting your schooling paid for.

This entire post thread speaks to the fundamental differences between those who grew up with money and those who didn't.

Procrastinating, thinking they have time.

As somebody in his early 30s I fucked up a good part of my life to chase videogames, netflix and bullshit.

Fucking up your credit. I am 50 and still dealing with repercussions from shit I did to my credit when I was in my 20s

Abandoning big plans because of who you're dating. Missed a trip to Japan, and an opportunity to stay in school longer. Lame

Not learning how to use a search bar.

Having a goal that they want to achieve but not having a plan to get there - "a goal without a plan is just a wish"

If there's a goal in mind, it's possible to reverse engineer the steps and then apply timelines to each. If the steps to get to a goal are hazy, then it's very likely you don't know how to get to your goal.

Credit cards:

I turned 18 and got credit cards out the ass. 9 years later still paying for it with just barley good credit.

Feeding your short-term self instead of your long-term self.

Getting married. Plenty of time for that later.

Signing up for any contract.

I'm in my early 40s and I think that our culture is a little bit crazy with celebrating both sex and drinking. Mind you, it was back when I was in my 20s as well.

There is nothing inherently wrong with these things. I don't view sex in and of itself to be sinful or drinking to be sinful. Just that these become ways that we live our lives in our 20s. Goals. And as I've gotten older, I guess I feel like there are better ways to live one's life.

I was never a heavy drinker but I had to quit drinking due to a medical issue. I miss good beer because I loved shit like Belgian ales made by monks. But I haven't been really drunk in about 5 years and I don't miss it.

Maybe it's because it hits you harder when you're older. But now that I don't drink, it's weird to me how much pop culture revolves around drinking. Both today's pop culture and that which I grew up around.

I don't think it's wrong to have and enjoy a drink on occasion, but when you're drinking to get fucked-up, that's a problem. When you're drinking because it lowers your inhibitions or you think it makes you cooler or smarter or funnier, or just less anxious. That's a problem.

As far as sex goes, I have no problem with the act itself. But I encourage people to try and quell lust. So much of the problems people have surrounding sex are due to not viewing potential sexual partners as people but as sex objects.

There's nothing wrong with finding someone attractive. But when you view a person just for the shape of their body, or what you want to do to that body...you're not really seeing them as a person.

I think that we, as a society, could stand to focus on building healthy relationships between men and women (or people of any gender).

Whether you fuck or don't. Whether you drink or don't. Do it with integrity and love in your heart, not lust or a desire to self-medicate with drunkenness. That's abuse...and you, and everyone around you, deserve better.

Going to school for something you like with no real market value.

Why yes advisor, I do like philosophy and that is totally a good enough reason to start a $60k program for it.

^^^No ^^^i'm ^^^not ^^^bitter, ^^^you're ^^^bitter.

Don't fuck up your credit, stay away from loans and any banking product you don't understand. Don't fuck up your health, if you have a problem you don't understand GO TO A DOCTOR. Don't fuck up your youth, and stay away from felony crimes and anyone who commits them.

A few things:

1 If at all possible for you pick up a trade AND shoot for a degree. Right now you have no idea how handy it is to be that marketable. If I were to do it all over again starting from HS graduation day, I would've got my Journeymen's in either HVACR or as an electrician. Once that was done I would've gone to school online to get a degree. Despite what everybody says theres a lot of money in both.

2 Never have champagne tastes with only beer money. And when you have enough for champagne, get beer instead. Just let that sink in.

3 From the age of 20 - 30, TIME FUCKING FLIES. But there's still enough time to get shit done. That's entire decade to get in shape, learn, fuck whoever you want, get fucked up, and still come out the other end set up for the future. Do yourself a favor and learn how to handle it all. In their 20s people tend to lose the scope of what is value. Figure that shit out. Do you want to be a millionaire? Start the grind now. Do you just want to be content living minimally? Cool, you can do that too. Just figure your shit out.

4 BE FEARLESS NOT RECKLESS. I know that sounds straight out of some self help bullshit blog, but it's the fucking truth. Try new shit, learn from it. Have a good time, cause sooner or later your peers settle down and you might too. And being reckless too often and not learning from leads you to picking up the pieces of your mess and blaming others for it, which leads me to my last tip.

5 Personal Accountability. It's no one else's fault if you do nothing with YOUR life. It's no one else's fault if drink, get behind the wheel, and run someone over. It's no one fault but your own. If you find your self blaming others for shitty stuff that happens to you, take a look at yourself, cause at that moment it's more than likely your fault completely.

Not starting a 401 k. The earlier you start the better.

Running up credit card balances like it’s free money

Putting off contributing to your 401K for later. These dollars are the ones that will grow the most.

Not traveling overseas.

Get a face/neck tattoo

Getting married just because it seems like the next step. You get married when you've spent enough time getting to know the right person, learning how to love them, and have come to the right place in your life. If all those things haven't happened then it probably isn't time.

Not believing in themselves.

Drinking every day. Emo music.

Not saving for a house right away. It’s a very difficult task, and some don’t plan on it until they are 25.

Lots of reasons really... I dont mean too old in general, just for some things. Like I said, I was a late starter really, and never got to do the whole travelling thing. Travelling around Asia is my life's dream, but I'm behind in my career and making good headway at the moment, i'm no longer in a position to go backpacking for a year. Even if I was, I'd feel like the creepy old man staying in hostels with the young gap year people.

Add to that the aches and pains, and recurring ailments that eventually become "my dodgy knee" or whatever... I start to wonder if I'll still be able to go hike up snowdon, or compete in a race, or even defend myself or loved ones if needed...

Don't assume you'll be in your 20s forever. As someone who was once in his 20s, I can tell you you'll be in your 40s before you know it. Do smart things early on to prepare yourself and establish good patterns. Save your money. Get in shape. Go to bed early and get up early. Don't wait to find a good job, go to school and get the degree or start a trade, just don't wait around for things to happen. Don't put yourself in a position where you find yourself wishing you could go back and do things over again, do them right the first time.

Not contributing to a 401k.

Dying.

Getting Married.

Marrying whoever you're with just because that's what people seem to do at your age.

Not taking care of illness or Injuries because you feel fine and your body is capable of ignoring it. By the time you hit 30 it's no longer just simple and your now suffering because of it.

If you need to upgrade your highschool marks to get into post secondary school, do it as soon as you can. Doing it in your late 20's/early 30's is a lot harder.

Valuing fun over work. Life isn't supposed to be fun, you need to focus on producing value. If you are majoring in a worthless field like history just die, because you will be a drain on society

Eating like crap and being a self centered jerk

Staying in a shitty job for a boss with good intentions.

7 years I was in a place. 6 years I was "next in line" for a raise.

I didn't value myself and thought I was a sub-par employee.

Turns out it was the company I worked for that brought me down. I moved on from that job and was promoted within 6 months at my new place. They appreciate my work and value my input.

Don't stay out of loyalty. Sure, give your company a chance to change, but put a deadline on it. Then start looking elsewhere.

Marrying someone who is toxic for you.

Hang out with your friends. Don't bail or make excuses about "not feeling like it" when you have the time. You never know how a simple outing may make memories for a lifetime. Live a little. Live a lot. Life's far too short to sit at home and do nothing. I'm 26 and wish I could've spent more time with my friends before shit hit the fan.

Messing up their credit.

Make them mistakes.. You can be warned, you know how your'e supposed to get your shit together, you will find out that all those advices just will make you feel like you got to be perfect. You're not and never will be.

Nowadays society is all about your personal luck/happiness while life is not about that. Life is hard, and that will never change, you gotta work to make it bearable, but even then it will never be a free ride. The only way to keep on going is telling yourself that everything is worthwile, just believe it. That sort of naïeve is what keeps me going. Plus all the little things that dont seem to matter when you want to be perfect; parties, friends, that little bite of pickle on a cheeseburger, the realisation that there's a sun shining on your bald head. Do at whatever age and at whatever time it takes to be happy. Fuck it, I worried way too long about school, and if I did make the right decision with that education.

I never did finish it and learned alot more about life (More about myself) then if I would have. Maybe thats a cheap excuse, I dont really know. What I do know is that, even though im ever full of doubts, ive been happy. For the first time in a looong while. Just ignoring the expectations of nowadays society and do whatever makes you happy in the moment. It made me a different person, even though I might regret it at some point. I dont think I will. There's too many beautiful years that ive had because of this. And it still even sounds unreal for me to talk about a beautiful year because im used to beautiful moments. Or less.

I wish life was better, like its expected to be.

I got married.

Taking on a significant amount of college debt. I'm only 24 and 6 figures in debt after undergrad+grad and I've got a good job now but paying $1k a month in loans and at this rate I still won't be debt free until I'm almost 40 which is ridiculous. All I can think about is all the good things that money could be spent on, all the people/family I could help. I come from a semi-underprivileged situation where my father had a good amount of debt himself but all FAFSA cares about is his raw income and we basically missed the cutoff for that free college money (grants, etc.) by the skin of our teeth. And my life is already over because of it. RIP.

Get experience, move jobs, don't stay at the same job more than 2 years without a big promotion or raise, you might be able to pay it all before 32.

Thanks buddy

don’t do drugs-but I mean it. go ahead and smoke pot if you want but don’t get into blow or anything like that. It’s so lame and just really not worth it. I’ll say I’ve had those moments where I look up and I’m absolutely in love with the moment but it’s because I was high and dopamine was plowing through my receptors. Even if you don’t have an addictive attitude you’ll wake up one day and realize you’re enabling those around you- like I did. Also, you get paranoid all the time and you’re mentally and physically a piece of garbage.

Whether your are male OR female: do not hook up with someone you aren’t already familiar with/ involved with if you are drunk. It’s not worth it. I have come across so many stories where people get embarrassed bc of who they hooked up with and play the rape card. It’s not fair to sexual assault survivors or the person accused.

Do not get too fucked up around people you wouldn’t trust with your life. And no, I don’t mean the people who get drunk and start fights for you.. those people are insane. I mean don’t take anything from a stranger and if you do.. just test it. Go out and buy a test to make sure you’re not putting bath salts in your body. If you’re experimenting with drugs, be around people who will have your best interest in mind..even if that means taking you to the hospital. If you’re drinking in a crowded space, have a bud who’s going to look out for you no matter what. Someone who isn’t going to leave you for some rando they meet.

ALWAYS know your self worth. Surround yourself with good people who support and motivate you to be your best. Not some crowd you fall into because you’re going through a phase. If you don’t trust your friends , you need to separate yourself. I made the mistake of hanging around these fucking loser boys who were sick in the head and two of them assaulted me while I was drunk and sleeping. Also, do whatever makes you happy. I mean literally just do it, don’t get crazy tattoos though. Tattoos are expensive and shouldn’t be wasted. BONUS TIP u better be paying a decent amount of cash for tattoos/ piercings bc dude that’s on your skin forever and it’s worth spending that money. — put yourself first. It’s okay to be selfish when it comes to growth.

My final point: treat others the way you’d want to be treated. Love people and their diversity. EDUCATE yourself on different cultures/people. Don’t judge the cover of the book unless you really get those vibes, always trust your gut. don’t be ignorant and if someone corrects you, thank them.

Not learning from them

Getting married.

Having children.

Not starting to save for retirement.

Having anything on your record, especially when you're trying to get an office/white-collar job. Finding a job right out of college can take months, finding a job right out of college with 2 misdemeanors that doesn't involve construction can take years. In most cases you're going to be the only one who gets a ding from HR about a criminal record and you're quickly thrown in the trash for something that may have happened years ago and in no way reflects who you are as a person.

Having kids when you cannot afford it or for that matter are emotionally stable to do so.

Not contributing to a 401(k) or IRA. Compounding interest makes a huge deal. Especially people who don't maximize employer contributions.

Credit card debt! Dont live outside your means cause eventually you’ll be playing catch up

Probably not what most will put here, but many of my friends told me I was making mistakes in my 20's...

After college I joined the Peace Corps for 2 years (lived in a mud hut in Zambia); I moved states twice; I changed my career at 29.

I'm 31 now, and although there's still a lot of time to come, I'm extremely happy with my career and life. However, a bunch of my friends (that told me to play it safe) aren't feeling as fulfilled.

So, in my experience the biggest mistake you can make in your 20's is sitting back and playing it safe. I wouldn't recommend reckless behavior, but calculated risks got me to where I'm at now.

Buy a new car.

I’m casting my vote for going to college. When everybody and their cousin has a bachelors, suddenly employment qualifications require a masters. That money would be better spent on gaining experience somewhere.

Getting married. People change so much in their 20's. Go, live your life,explore and discover who you are before you commit that person to someone else. Seriously, get married after 30 - you'll be much more satisfied in your marriage if you do.

Credit card debt. Student loan debt.

They will haunt you for ever, kid.

Waiting to go to college, taking out student loans, dating crazy people, and going into debt.

Not trying things. Just because it's a job you don't like does not mean you can't learn from it. Or it doesn't necessarily have to be a job. Go volunteer or go get a hobby and get every ounce of benefit you can from it.

Turn your passion into something you can learn from. Even if it's something as meaningless as playing videogames or watching TV. Learn the nitty gritties and examine the minute details of how these things work.

All of this will get you transitional skills. You'll be surprised at how many you get, where you get them from, and when you may apply them.

Ignoring alcoholism or drug addiction if you actually have a problem, by writing it off and saying everyone my age is doing it, or it's not that bad

Watching it enough porn.

not have fun.

Getting married to early/to the wrong person

Reevaluate the top people you spend the most time with. Sub out the people that are the least like what you want in a future self and add ones that are your heroes. Do this every six months to a year.

Speeding.

It will fuck up your job prospects if it involves driving in any sort of way.

Yeah, sure, the key is to not get caught, but when, not if, but when you do, just one blip about a speeding ticket, and it will fuck up your job prospects.

Both sides of the job front: expecting a solid job upon graduating and having a sense of entitlement, which can carry over into a job that may seem beneath that person.

The other side is taking a job that does not pay well and lacks growth opportunities and not pushing oneself to pursue something more challenging or with a higher ceiling for growth.

Not finishing a post secondary education. 20 years ago it was getting harder without post secondary and as time goes by, it has gotten to be almost impossible to get ahead without it.

Don’t end up like me kids! Stay in school.

accidentally buying corn flakes instead of frosted flakes.

lmfao. The box is white though.

20s are hard bro

Colorblindness is not a joking matter

Credit card debit

Wasting so much precious time trying to get others to love you instead of loving yourself. Staying in horrible relationships and friendships, where you are treated badly because you believe people will change. Hint: they don’t. Cut your losses and move on quickly.

Getting married.

Not protecting their credit.

Making bad life choices that ruin their credit.

Then making more poor choices so they end up in trouble with no credit to help pay for anything.

Not setting up their 401k when offered by their employer.

Using drugs

Highly addictive drugs

Loans you can't pay back

Rushing into relationships

Not being in any relationships

Not taking care of yourself

Not improving yourself

Getting married to someone because your friends are all getting hitched, or because of familial pressures. Same with having kids.

Getting a degree in a "useless" field or a low paying field unless you fully understand your job prospects as well as future pay. It's important to find a field you like, but if you can't live a lifestyle you are happy with on its pay scale, you will not be happy with your career choice.

Not starting your retirement savings...even if its a token

taking out multiple loans because the banks say "you can"! your 20s will love you, your 30s will cry out wondering why you needed that big tv when you had no friends anyway

Owning a credit card.

For the love of god do not have a child unless you are ready, and if you’re not 25 or older YOU ARE NOT READY FOR A FUCKING KID!

Also start a savings account ... for when you have kids. They’re expensive.

Unsafe sex. No glove, no love.

Seriously, one night stands are sometimes a regret. STIs or unwanted pregnancies can be even more regretful.

Some of them: Doing drugs in unsafe settings. Being stoned all the time. Not exercising. Not socializing. Believing you know everything and have it all sorted out. Falling in love! the list goes on...

Thinking that money is everything. I've seen so many people dictate their entire life by money. They pick a college major not by what they want to do, but by some list in a magazine of top salaries by major. They choose what city to live in not based on where they want to be, but based on a list of lowest cost of living.

Yes, it's important to be practical. Being poor sucks. But it's not everything. If you only follow money, you'll find yourself 50, middle class, and depressed as shit.

I ignored the advice of pretty much everyone and just did what I wanted to do. I wanted to travel the world so I chose an international-oriented major and got jobs overseas. Now in my late twenties and I've lived in 5 countries on 3 continents (and had business trips in about 25 others).

Yeah, I couldve just gone to engineering school and id have a lot more money, but I'd still be in my hometown and wondering if I should have followed my dreams.

Money is important, but it's not everything. Be aware of it and make good choices, but don't build your life around it.

People usually don't realize until they're old that it doesn't really matter what car you drove, or how fancy your apartment was. It matters what you did, what you saw, what you experienced. Focus on that.

Not taking their credit seriously. I ruined my credit while I was in college and I’m still repairing it. Pay your bills, kids.

Not saving money- emergencies, retirement, down payments, etc.

Buying cars on loans you can't afford. Just roll with the beat up Toyota it'll end up being the car you love the most.

Student loan debt.

Messing up your credit. This brings me to my other point.... Schools in my opinion DO NOT do enough to mentally prepare teens for what the financial world is like.

High school banking/financial programs should be mandatory.

Not be 20

Take out a loan and or pay bills with a credit card!

Getting married.

My older brother told me this when I turned 20. No DUI/DWI's. No unexpected kids (atleast until you're in a serious relationship) and keep the credit score in the 700's.

32 now. Can honestly say my 20's were awesome! A couple things I would go back and change like moving sooner and not attempting to buy a house sooner, but generally speaking "No Ragrats!"

Find a hobby that keeps you in shape early and keep doing it! Cycling, climbing, running, lifting, whatever. Always contribute to your 401k no matter how little your company matches.

Settling down and getting married before you’re ready

Not saving for retirement. If you start in your 20s, you will feel so much better in your 40s. The negatives didn't happen to me, because I started saving for retirement when I turned 18, but all my friends feel royally fucked and don't know what to do.

Getting married. Having kids.

Learn about government/etc programs that make is easier to enrich your life while young.

For example https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/canadians/international-experience-canada/about.html

Canada and a bunch of other countries have reciprocal work visa programs for those under 35 (some are for under 30). The government will help you (both logistically and financially) to obtain a visa to work or travel abroad.

Getting married, my father got married at the early age of 23 and then had a kid, he later divorced his wife and met my mother.

Dating people in their 40s.

Get a credit while working a minimum wage job and taking 12 hours in college... I’m not in loads of debt but every pay check I get now goes towards my Walmart credit card, my amazon credit card ( that’s the most dangerous one), and my discover.

I just kept getting approved and boy do I regret it

Not keeping an eye on your credit score.

To me, it is not understanding money. Learn more about finances than you think you need to know.

The only barrier between rich and poor is knowledge.

Having high expectations after college or, thinking that hard work pays off in the real world!

decide to keep the baby

Feeling like you are behind your friends. It’s not a race brother. There is no finish line. Get a job you can tolerate and will expand your comfort zone (sales can be good for that) give it 1-2 years and make lists of what you like and don’t like about your job. Network and take introductions seriously. You never know who will be your next boss. Take your time and remember to breath. Work is not the most important thing you’ll ever do

Using credit cards.

Living paycheck to paycheck by spending all their money the moment they cash their check.

Leasing a car. Buying a new car.

Skipping on basic dental maintenance. Get them cleaned at least once a year. In the long run it will cost you more.

Mine was credit cards

Credit card debt/poor credit and/or commit a felony.

Not contributing to a company matched 401k. Thinking renting is equal to owning. Not budgeting and saving. Not having a long term plan.

Learning to start putting away money for yourself, later in life

Sleeping with everyone in sight, girls screwing over their friends for a dude, not wearing sunscreen.

DUI or debt

Thinking that playing video games is a pastime. Get out and do something active. Take up running, cycling, dancing, hiking etc.. Join a club and meet people who are into outdoor healthy activities.

Not taking the time to travel. Even if it means road trips and camping on the side of the road. Time gets scarce and gets harder to take a break from responsibilities

Falling into a marriage young because you had kids.

(disclaimer if my wife ever sees this. I love you and I'm not talking about us)

That ought fix that issue if it comes up

Screwing up your credit... Not paying your taxes... Yeah...

Have kids.

Getting married before you really get to know what someone's like. I believe that people should not only date each other a while before living together, but they should also live together for at least a few months before they get married. Some people get married way too young and then realize that they married someone who is different than who they thought they were. I know someone who just got married at 22. I knew someone who got married super early in life and whose marriage did not go well at all as a result. Wait for the right person!

Getting married was mine

Banging chicks without a rubber. WRAP DAT SHIT!

Where do I start.....

Not investing in a 401k, IRA, roth IRA. Compound interest is the secret to UNLIMITED POWER... I mean money.

Not doing taxes.

Ax total strangers for advice.

Watch hypnotoad young ones

Car payments, you don’t need a flashy car

Commenting for later

Spending thousands of dollars in college and not finishing...

Marrying someone

Thanks for taking the time to help me out man. I’m going to think about the things you said and go from there hopefully come out with a good answer. I just get worried how much of the issues are just me being an unsure 20 year old haha.

Move halfway across the country with someone you've been dating for only four months.

Blowing all your money and time at bars

SAVE YOUR MOTHERFUCKING MONEY like all the shit they don't tell you in school.. that's the shit you need to be learning. Financing. Have your fun, but if you're making money just be frugal, man.

Also stay the fuck out of jail.

Not to know how to make financial plans for the future It’s about time now to save 10% and more of every income you get if haven’t started.

I fucked off and wasted my 20s and have very little in the way of regret because it was fun.

If I had to do over again, there are three things I would have done differently:

  1. Saved money. 401k or whatever. Hitting 30 and realizing I had zero net worth was somewhat sobering.

  2. Fucked more. I spent way too much time worrying about relationships and feelings and not enough time seeing strangers naked. Everyone wants to fuck, and there's no shame in it.

  3. Exercised more. I am fat. I build muscle pretty well, but it's hard now. In my 20s if I spent a month going to the gym I'd lose like 10lbs and be visibly buffer. If I had done that more than a month every two years I'd be ripped AF.

Come to think of it, I can still do all three of these.

Not using under-eye cream every night. Or moisturizer at all. Start early, kids!

There’s a lot of “be sensible” advice in here, which is all very smart and should be heeded.

But you know what? You get one crack at being in your 20s. So, be young. Take a year off and see the world. Live in another country. Go and have an adventure.

You have your whole life to focus on personal finance, career and responsibilities. But there’s a short window in your early 20s where you’re old enough to be independent but young enough not to have real responsibilities. Make the most of it - once that window closes, it stays closed.

Don’t make the mistake of trying to grow up too fast.

Don’t make lifelong decisions until you’re 30.

Getting used to an unsustainable style of life

Dead serious? Getting married. Enjoy adult life as a bachelor for a while.

Destroying your credit

Save something every two weeks. No matter if it is only $20.00. Having some kind of cash cushion will save your butt when the unexpected happens!

Wasting time on Reddit

Oh shit. Great thread. I'm turning 20 in six days.

Ty ty. Happy early birthday btw. 🎉

Trying to impress people that likely wont matter later down the line.

Not reading The Culture of Critique.

In all honesty I say getting married. Wait. There's no rush. A twenty year old is not mature enough for such an important endeavor.

Not paying attention to your credit rating. That shit is important and can affect every aspect of your life, from interest rates, to jobs. Yes, emploers can and often do check your credit rating.

Spend time with your family and relatives and exercise/be healthy. I'm in hospital constantly and been to more funerals than I'd like to over the last few years

-Not take care of their teeth.

-Get into debt for dumb reasons.

-Waste time with the wrong people.

-Not spend time with their family (esp. grandparents and parents) because you want to hang out with your friends.

Buy property!

Lacking compassion due to immaturity

Your 20s are the time you make the mistakes.

Not buying RRSP's in Canada.

Yo fam this shits stressful... I'm 20 right now

Be grateful that you're 20 right now reading this thread. Some people never got this kind of advice at our age. Here's to good times in our 20s! lol

Not saving money. Trying to help that hot chic with the kids. Just move on.

Whatever you do and put your name on it. please take it like seriously. also dont be afraid to try for anything

Get a felony

IIT:

Don't be a financial fuckwit.

Don't marry or have kids too soon.

Exercise more and/or drink less.

There you go.

Invest your money. Don't let those people that say you need 1k, 5k, or 10k to start investing scare you off. You can actually buy a dollar amount of shares and not a quantity amount. I'd still take a 10% return after fees over a 2% return in a savings account.

Letting outside influences determine what will make you happy in life. Get exposure to many people and things but your path is your path. Don’t waste time living a lie and expect to be happy

Stalling out in school. Took me 12 years to finish college. And while it's 100% debt free, I still can't get back those 8 years.

Not investing in a 401k .

Smoking meth

Dui, money, problems, time

Defaulting on credit cards or student loans

Not starting to save $...whether retirement or savings account.

Not working hard enough. Spending all their money. Not investing in themselves or not taking risks.

I think it’s important to put on paper what you actually want to strive for in your life. It’s so easy to do nothing and go through the motions, and very easy to read threads like this and do nothing. Create tangible goals to work toward and not things like “I want to be rich and successful”, which are completely subjective and vary. Immediate goals, short term, long term. If you don’t know where you’re going it’s impossible to get there. And even if you don’t know anything, write down what you think you want and just look at it for awhile; see if it’s just some story you’ve been telling yourself about what you want for your life or what you truly want. Become self-aware and objective enough to assess your own life. Create tangible goals and train yourself to become disciplined enough to follow through with your plan when your motivation fails you (which it will). The longer you wait to develop this skill, the harder it is

Thinking that making a big mistake in your twenties is the end of your life.

Marriage.

Investing.

If a 21 year old invests $2000 a year into a roth ira for 5 years (or some other method of getting $10k total into the Roth ira), by the time that person is ready to retire, they have turned the small investment easily on to just over $900,000.

The same amount invested beginning in one's early to mid thirties will yield roughly $350,000.

Compound interest is one of mankind's greatest inventions.

Taking health for granted. Don't wait for something major to come up to treat your body right.

Don't splurge on a car with your first job/raise/bonus. I did, bought a used SUV, and regretted it for the next 6 years. Far more expensive than I should have bought in the first place, and it was a bit of a lemon. Had I bought a used CR-V I'd probably still be driving it.

Heck, for what I paid, I could have probably bought a new CR-V at the time.

Not taking time to value relationships to family. I lost 3 grandparents in my late 20’s and my father in my early 30’s. My last grandmother is unintelligible and I only have my mom left. Family means a lot the older you get.

Giving up on their life.

Purchasing something of lesser quality that you know you're going to use often or for a very long time.

Doesn't apply to everything obviously, but you often get what you pay for.

Have kids, when they are not ready

Not investing in your retirement

Getting covered in fucking neck & face tats. You better be seriously committed to that lifestyle because it’s going to be very hard to work outside of a small number of professions. People will judge you whether you like it or not. Whether you deserve it or not.

I’ve got nothing against them in principle, but have a number of friends who got them when we were teenagers and they’ve seriously regretted it.

Spending money on stupid shit and not putting money in 401k early and often

Accrue a shit ton of debt

Marrying the wrong person. I did.

Just fucking stay away from drugs...

Having kids.

Having a kid with someone you don't actually like or get a long with

Catching AIDS.

LOL Im sure you have lots of experience on this. Hilarious that I predicted this.

Enjoy your aids.

Getting married and then divorced at such a young age.

Staying in relationships that you're not REALLY excited about at the cost of your career, social life, general range of experiences. Unless you're absolutely certain a person is your soulmate, romantic relationships are a sacrifice that's not worth making. You can be with people, have a good time, treat them well, but ultimately always choose your life.

At the same time, know when to fall in love and commit. Don't be afraid when it's the real thing.

My biggest regret is not breaking up with my ex earlier and following him to a random city where I had no prospects or interests. My biggest joy had been all the experiences I had outside of that, and then falling in love with my husband.

Oh, and don't spend too much money or go into debt. Cultivate a friend group that values frugality.

Not saving money. People have touched on it and I know not everyone’s circumstances will allow for but seriously try to understand what you need to live on a monthly basis - rent/, mortgage, school loans, car payments, food, utilities etc and aim to save at least enough to cover 6 months of that.

If you ever lose a job etc it’s a huge weight not going into panic mode immediately

Get married early

Not taking time to enjoy youth/college/whatever. Guess what MF'ers, once you graduate all you have left to look forward to for the next 40 years of your life is work.

Getting into any sort of debt beyond a $500 dollar credit card. Especially if that debt gets anywhere close to half if what you make in a year. Also going into debt for family...

Not starting a 401k.

Not making any mistakes

Any addiction, im only 17 and I'm addicted to nic

Rush into a relationship and stay in it waaaay to long. You can be alone. It's okay.

Not paying the interest on their student loans and allowing it to capitalize.

Saving half your pay when your living at home, so when your 29 you can afford a house with a mortgage cheaper then most apartments.

cries in 2 by 2 closet its ok Mr Harry bottom will go find some food behind the Chinese buffet tonight.

In no particular order:

Wrap it up.

You don’t need it if you need to use credit to get it (paying bills and groceries on a car that’s paid off monthly, NBD. But stay the hell out of a shoe store/Best Buy)

Making friends is tough, hod on hard to the ones you already have.

It’s easier to stay in shape than get in shape. Source: roundish 37yo man.

Wrap it up. You’re either out $700-ish, or 18 years of your life. Both aren’t cheap, one far more costly. Mentioned twice for a reason.

Max your 401k to the hilt, especially if you get a match. It’s literally free extra money if your employer matches. You don’t see it in your take-home, so you never use that number as a budget basis. It’s pre-tax, so you pay less in taxes. And it’s essentially in a lock box, so you can’t go in and raid it.

On top of the previous, take advantage of every single tax loophole you can. Turbo tax costs $100. A decent accountant costs $300 and will save you more than what you paid him. I usually have around 85 pages in my tax return, so I don’t even bother trying to do it myself.

Travel while you are young and have few responsibilities. you will be a better person for it.

Not saving money for retirement if they can afford to do so

Shoplifting when I am not even financially struggling. I don't even know why I started it, maybe just trying to save a few dollars, but the guilt and the criminal record when you do get caught is just humiliating and detrimental.

Painkillers. Dont touch them.

(Buried for sure)

Get the teeth out and solved early. Spend the money. Just do it. Wait and you will lose more than teeth.

Not finishing college when I was THERE. Now having to go back is such a pain.

I wish y'all didn't get off topic so bad

Not starting a retirement fund or saving for retirement. The earlier you start, the better your money will work for you.

Lift with your god damn knees. You do not want to destroy your back in your 20s because it will bite you in the ass when you get older. I have a slipped disc, and when it goes, not being able to walk or move without blinding pain is really annoying.

Oh and take care of your teeth. If you’re a smoker, good luck with the root scaling procedure.

Definitely catch a STI/STD. Or an unwanted pregnancy. Use protection people!

Taking too much advice and avoiding some tough, but crucial mistakes that will shape the rest of your life.

You can take way more risks and then bounce back. You have much more energy in your 20s then any other age.

Not putting anything in savings....even if it’s just a little, the interest made on saving early is insane and very difficult to make up later in life

Debt

Marriage

Kids

Not traveling as much as you can afford

Getting in debt

History degree. Ouch

Start putting 50-150$ per month in a saving account. Even 25$ or 10$ depending on your income. You won’t believe how much you will have when you begin your 30s

As a 22 year old kid, I just want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart. I'll definitely be listening to everyone's advice and I'll continue to improve my life

get pregnant,

Having kids.

Credit cards. Every should watch Frontline's Secret History of the Credit Card.

Not taking their college education seriously and either pick a useless degree or fuck up completely and flunk out.

Not listening to good advice from your elders.

Not investing; even if it is just $50/mo. Those early years for retirement are crucial.

Not drinking Alcohol in moderation. Developing Alcoholism in your 20's from partying to much will ruin the rest of your life!

Not drinking Alcohol in moderation. Developing Alcoholism in your 20's from partying to much will ruin the rest of your life!

Don't be afraid of making mistakes. It's better to make them when you're younger. You also learn more from mistakes.

This is not an endorsement to do meth.

Making it to 30.

Not imvesting for retirement. Thinking that it's far away, but missing out on all that compound interest.

Don't worry about what anyone else has. Focus on yourself, spend responsibly, save aggressively, do not get things you can't comfortably afford.

A mistake I made, twice already now, is avoid falling into the car sales trap. I fell into it, rolled my already expensive old car into my new, more expensive car. (Old car was perfectly fine, I just wanted new) Now I'm stuck with a huge car note that I'm just getting by.

Spend your money responsibly, do your research, keep your credit good, and keep focusing on your goals. Don't ever let anything push you away from them.

Wise words I should be following myself but I was stupid and ignorant, and did what I wanted. Not what was the best for me.

Learn from my mistakes.

Getting married

Man.... reading these comments are so contradicting. Do you, deal with your mistakes, and don’t take too much advice from strangers. With that said.... do you. Marry who ya want ;)

I would say a very big mistake is living without caring about much because you are pretty sure you don't care if you die and everything is pointless. Living like that digs you into a deep hole, and someday your life philosophy may change and you have a hell of a time trying to dig out.

Marrying the wrong person.

Thinking shit matters.

That advice is final and applies to everyone.

Lack of focus. It’s easy to coast through your 20s bouncing from job to job, but sooner or later, you’ll wake up when you’re 30 and realize you haven’t accomplished much or started a career you can be proud of.

Do what you love everyday. Whether it's for an hour in the morning or your day job, make sure you make time for it.

Roommates. Expect them or private landlords (homeowners renting you their room) to fuck you over, and have extra months' rent/first and last for somewhere else in your bank account and ready to go.

Nobody likes you when you're twenty three. (Come at me, Seriousbot)

Not starting a 401k those years of nothing being put for retirement crucial

Being alive

Truly understand the difference between a want and need. Most people apply this to finances but fewer apply it to other parts of their life, like relationships. No potential partner will fulfill every single desire so make a list of traits that are wants and traits that are needs.

Going to art school

Getting into trouble with the law. Although this could be applied to any age, nothing eliminates possible careers/avenues at a time in your life when they're all available as getting into trouble and/or having a record.

Not using a condom

Sleeping with a burner and getting the incurable clap. Herpes from an SO "because they love me". Going to an expensive University by mortgaging their future.

Not starting to save for retirement. Get 401k set up as soon as you can

In my late 20s I learned a 401k is not a replacement for traditional retirement savings, like Roth IRAs. I am now 30, though, and still haven't found out what a goddamn Roth IRA is.

A Roth IRA is a like a 401(k), except you pay taxes now and not later. So when you withdraw from a 401(k), you will owe taxes on that withdrawal. When you withdraw from a Roth IRA, you dont pay taxes on the withdrawal, but you pay taxes on the initial input to the account. If you are offered a 401(k), you are also offered a Roth IRA.

See, 30s are helpless too.

Okay a roth 401k and a roth ira are basically the same.

I learned a 401k is not a replacement for traditional retirement savings, like Roth IRAs

That is incorrect.

The difference is that a roth 401k has a higher cap, takes out of your paycheck, your company can match. That is it.

They are so similar that when you leave the company that has the 401k you just transfer the money to a roth IRA because it is so similar.

A roth IRA is a brokerage account that you can't withdraw from till you are 60. The benefit is that the gains made in it are tax free (this is a huge advantage even if it doesn't sound like much now).

Want a roth IRA in the most idiot proof way?

Go to betterment.com and follow the steps to open a roth IRA. They don't have enough options for you to fuck it up.

Afraid betterment.com is foreign to you? Doesn't matter, you can always change brokerage down the road.

Do drugs while trying to cope with childhood trauma.

Not drinking Alcohol in moderation. Developing Alcoholism in your 20's from partying to much can ruin the rest of your life!

If you're nearing the end of college start looking for a job/career about a year before you graduate or asap. I served in the Army from 19-23 then went to college and graduated at 26. My biggest mistake was thinking I would find a decent job within a month of graduating. I was dead wrong. Being out of school meant my GI bill money stopped and not working during school or finding a job during my college years meant no unemployment or gov assistance. My arrogance flipped my life upside down. I had to use up my savings and ended up bouncing around temporary jobs and putting off grad school. Because paying for grad school applications is not a priority when you're trying to make rent. If OP (or anyone) come across this and you're in a similar situation, heed my advice: don't wait to look for work before you graduate.

Not saving money. Wether it be saving for a house, retirement, or just for a rainy day.

so many contradictions in this sub, makes me go crazy. I'm 25 btw...

Good thing there's discussion.

Thinking you don't need medical insurance and winding up with bad credit that haunts you for the rest of your life after a true accident.

Proper hearing protection and not listening to ear buds too loud.

[deleted]

Any, living with tinitus sucks. You can't stop it, you can't run from it, you can't escape it.

Get hooked on pain pills and wreck your credit!!

Working at a no skill minimum wage job instead of just buckling down and learning a skill.

Bonus points for complaining that no one is giving you amazing job offers despite having no skills.

Stopping Education ........... keep going 'til you have the career you want. I tell kids, you got to 30 to go to school.......have fun when young, because when retire at 52, 62, or 70...there are so many fewer things to have fun with!

Wait so go to school till 30 and have fun? How

Well...you HAVE until you are 30....so...figure out what you want to be, and BEFORE you turn 30...get the training/education you need.....there could be several years off so job, travel etc......BUT don't take some dead end job you hate at 25 and work it for 20 years...then you are 45 and fucked!

I disagree, it's ok to change your education later on. As you grow older your interests and passions change as well. Someone who really wants to work in the trades when they are young might realize how physically exhausting and painful it is and wants to switch to something else later. If you're unhappy at the job that you're doing you should go to school and change it up no matter how old you are. The chances of finding something that you absolutely love to do for the rest of your working life (before youre 30) are slim.

"Don't take a dead end job you hate" is correct, but to switch your job you probably have to go to school again

Right,,,,,before 30.....

Party too much and not finish college.

Get married and not finish college.

Have children and not finish college.

Accumulate debt and never finish college.

Having the attitude of "I'm still young, I'll worry about blank later". Next thing you know it's too late

That’s enough reddit for today, this thread is getting me down

Getting married.

Giving up on their dreams they had as a kid.

Having kids before you’re done with college if you’re the kind of person who is taking out loans and not having it all paid for by family. Also drugs. Lots and lots of drugs. Alcohol included. Never trust your friends to take care of you while you’re drunk. Never. They usually have the opposite in mind because they think its funny. They’ll lead you to fuck yourself up. Thats how fraternities get in the papers from someone dying from alcohol poisoning. Never. Trust. Your friends. They’re usually too stupid to know what they’re talking about. And pot can negatively affect you. Its still a drug. Don’t care if its better or worse than alcohol or tobacco... it doesn’t matter. Its still going to change you. Not everyone can take that shit and be productive. It can make you paranoid and lead you to more panic attacks or depression if you are prone to them. Just... keep your eye on your studies and starting out your life. Theres plenty of chances to fuck your life up later.

Not having enough sex. Your body won't always be like it is now.

God, I'm 25 and this thread has been terrifying. Now I'm so afraid of being poor and fat

For me it was lack of self-forced financial discipline coupled with eating out all the time.

If I had lived just a little bit more frugally - specifically $100 per pay period (which, in hindsight, would have been entirely possible), and contributed that money to an IRA, I would be in a far better position now that I'm in my late thirties.

Making excuses for your own shortcomings and failures.

Running from your problems and/or engaging in escapism when things get hard.

Substance abuse with the “I can quit anytime.” mentality. If you can quit, do it. If you don’t, you’re addicted or dependent.

SMOKING. Not excercising. Fats and sugars in excess.

Believing you are hot sh*t and quitting a job because you feel disrespected. Maybe if you are getting in trouble or not doing well, you are not doing your job well.

If you are having a hard time, don't be afraid to talk to your supervisor or manager, but keep it pleasant and professional. It is so much harder to find a job when you don't have one than it is when you have one.

This only really applies to Veterans, not filing for disability the day you get out. If finally got approved, I’m looking at around $12,000 in back pay when they start sending me checks. I’ve been out for 5 years struggling to survive, that’s roughly $50,000 I missed out on.

Apply for disability the day you get out, don’t put it off or you’ll just continue to avoid filing until you desperate for some aid. Then it’ll be up to a year after that before they cut you a check.

Growing up too soon. I'm 26 and sometimes feel like I'm too old to do fun things, but I'm really not. I've missed it on a couple things because of it.

You only get older my man.

Yeah I know. So I'm trying to stop the whole "not being fun" thing. Lol

Trying to get a degree in the arts

Herpes

Dont be lazy.

Selling stuff you own to make a quick buck to pay bills. You'll end up selling so much you won't have anything left to build you a home for your 30s and 40s. It's an endless cycle, you get too comfortable relying on it. Eventually you start losing money doing this and will have nothing to show for it later.

There's a difference between selling something you don't need anymore or something that was a frivolous purchase to help pay something you need. But when you start selling half your household, it becomes a problem.

Abuse drugs like there is no consequences. You don't wanna spend your 20s dealing with PTSD, OCD, anxiety and panic disorders. Become mental ill is the worst thing that ever happened to me.

All you need is Dave Ramsey.

Getting pregnant

Waiting for "that big chance" where you think that someone somewhere is going to hand you that great job, or the secret to life's success, or that cute girl or guy you been crushing on or in love with is just going to confess their love for you all of a sudden.

Don't count on it. It's like how people think in a zombie movie or show that they'll be the main character battling off the zombies... No. Face it most of us will be zombie #42 on the left trying to eat more brains.

My point is, some people just get dumb luck (lottery, right place right time, etc) and hit major success and that's just a coincidence. My favorite example for success in hard work is Andrew Carnegie.

You gotta earn your keep, can't count on somebody just handing it to you. The earlier you start, the farther you can go!

If someone is depressed, the worst thing that they can do is not try to get help for it. It was actually today that I was prescribed with antidepressants and I start tomorrow. Not getting help is one of the things that leads to suicide

Getting married and having kids. Wait until you are at least 30 to get married. Party a lot, date a lot, have sex a lot, fulfill your fantasies, do it all. Nobody has to know but you.

If you do find the love of your life and can't resist getting married, then at least put off having kids until you are 30. Again, party and sex it up as a couple. Having kids later is much more satisfying as a person and a couple. You've gotten the partying out of your system, you are better established in your careers, and youll be ready to take on that big responsibility without feeling like you're missing something. Nearly everyone I know who had kids young wished they'd waited.

Smoke cigs, not build credit, not dream big, thinking your life and career are over just because you’re not where you want to be.

Smoking

Not going for it!

Mini Rant!:

I'm 23 and am commenting from what I've learned from/seen from the older people I work with (I'm the youngest by at least 7 years). It's a gift to know what you want to do/be. To be passionate about something. We are all just running around like beheaded chickens and doing blah work until something clicks. So when you have a passion, nurture it. Work for it. It doesn't have to be a career. It can be a hobby, side job, whatever. But don't waste time once you've figured it out. I watch all these older people just waiting for life to happen and it used to confused the shit out of me about my life. Is life just waiting? (Waiting for a lover to pop up, waiting to take that trip, waiting for your dream job to pop up, waiting for money, waiting for your mind to click on something). All this waiting has produced very bitter adults.; people who say they are going to do (blank), but never accomplish it for one reason or another. Life is nuanced, I know. But waiting for your life to start is fruitless. If you love it, work for it. If you've found the thing that lights a fire in you're belly, you're blessed. Don't waste it.

Buying a brand new car.

Saying that you're "old".

Don’t just focus on your career. I thought it was so important to get ahead in my career that I skipped family vacations...and then my dad passed away during one of those vacations. One of the biggest regrets of my life.

If you’re good and work hard, you’ll be valued if you have a good boss.

Student loan debt; 0% worth

Not starting to invest early. When I was in my early 20s, I wanted to buy all the expensive stuff. Little did I know the power of compounding. Now that I’ve started investing, I think I’m late by at least 7-8 yrs.

Fun fact: Warren Buffett made his first investment at the age of 11.

Developing a nice drug, alcohol, nicotine addiction.

Student loan debt

Choosing money instead of choosing a stable job with opportunity to grow.

Honestly your tastes and desires change over time. Especially as you gain more personal experience and exposure with life. So if your career path is going to change don't feel you HAVE to stay on that path because you chose it. Life isn't static, you needn't be either. Short of it, don't become closed minded.

That being said, discipline to do all the things you absolutely don't want to do will pay off better than any school or business knowledge. If you have it ingrained in you, you can accomplish whatever that dynamic heart and mind may desire. Carry that ability and see through the effects of things to its core cause and you can own and dismantle the issues that will arise.

Life isn't about money, status, fame. If you want those things fine, but it should be approached as those are the effects of a solid cause. What it should be about is when you decide on something you really want to achieve, you'll have the self esteem and self confidence to do it. Life throws curves all time, and you'll end up on the ground, but that doesn't matter, how quickly you get up and take it back on does.

Best wishes to you.

Edit: Biggest mistake is not having the discipline to take on life. It gets harder to unlearn bad habits and then learn new ones as you age.

Spending too much time on party, women and alcohol instead of building a career or business.

Not putting as much away for retirement as you can afford. Money + time = more money. Even if you don’t have much money when you’re 25, you have a lot of time before retirement.

Honestly I think not socializing enough and not stepping out of your shell. Also staying or getting into shape at an early age. I'm 32 about to be 33 in a few weeks and it's HARD AF at this age because you've become so ingrained in your ways. I wish I would have tackled this at an earlier age but I've made great progress in a year so I'm patting myself on the back for that :)

Tons of credit cards. Just cause you have credit doesn’t mean you’re rich.

Student loans, man.

In hindsight I was really arrogant in my 20s. I never thought much about it until I got my 30s and started reflecting. I was really dumb and thought I was hot shit.

Debt, babies and STDs.

Not paying credit cards on time.

Find a job you like. Nothing worse than doing something you hate for 40+ years.

Also don't get married young Don't have kids young And Sunscreen... And stay fit, find a hobby that keeps you fit, it also gives you a instant social circle of like minded people win win..

Reverting all the progress they have made

Wasting money on stupid things you will never need or use. save as much as you can when your young and have the energy+health

Place too much value on what other ppl think.

Drug addiction

Modern 20s? I won't go too deep or profound here:

You don't need the newest gadget. Your iPhone/Galaxy 6 will do everything the iPhone/Galaxy8 does. You're not a photographer or film director so you don't need whatever neat but meaningless to you feature they have to justify being a new model. Your 1080p TV is fine, you don't need a PS4 Pro/Xbox X when you have a base model, your car is fine, etc.

Take the money you WOULD HAVE spent on the new phone, laptop, game console, etc and save it or spend it on something you'll have in 10 years.

The deal you make is to go without the newest stuff for 1 iteration/generation. Doing this, you'll begin to constantly get that new thing when it's half the price and you're only 6-8 months behind everyone. You save money either way.

This goes quadruple for any kids you may have. A 5yo doesn't need a brand new tablet when a used, $40 tablet will do. When they're 10 they don't need a brand new anything that's electronic/gadget-ish. Let those with the money or desire to eat untold debt be ahead of the curve.

Getting with the wrong person in high school, staying with them for years and not leaving because they already have been with them for so long. Then the situation becomes 1000x worse when they have a kid.

I'm about to hit 25 this fall and one thing I've learned after 2 years and 3 jobs is that it's okay to make mistakes, but only if you learn from them.

After a long struggle (and even being unemployed for 6 months) I've found myself at a great company. While the work I do doesn't relate to my major - marketing - they only hire from inside in that department.

Be willing to grind and work hard for what you want. Taking something in the short term that may not be ideal can pay off if you plan well for the future. Know your self worth and when a company takes you seriously as opposed to taking advantage.

Pregnancy. Oh and similarly GETTING A PET, WHEN YOU DONT HAVE THE COMMITMENT, TO HAVE A PET. Their lives are worth as much as yours dont trade them in and out like skittles. Empty the fucking cat litter, walk the dog. Commit.

Marriage.

Not saving money. Try to start that retirement as soon as possible!

Not saving money for a house.

Hanging out with the wrong crowd / shitty “friends”

Take care of your knees. You're gonna need working knees for most of your life.

Financial mistakes can take years to recover from. I'm still paying for it. 26 years old. Living in my parents basement. Work full time. School full time. Paying out of pocket for school. I owe $1000 for tuition that has to be paid in the next week that I absolutely do not have. Thinking about taking out a personal loan, but my soul will literally die if I do.

Never. Ending. Stress.

Unprotected Sex.

Getting addicted to blow

Live.

Rushing to have kids or get married.

Not saving their money! Invest $2500 in a mutual fund ir index fund and max out your retirement contributions starting in your 20s and you really wont even notice its missing but you'll see the difference when your 50 and can retire 👍

Not saving, drinking too much, going into debt, not planning for the future, continuing to pursue a worthless major, having kids/getting married too young, not traveling/experiencing enough while you're single, playing it a little too safe. This is a cliche, but you really have to find that balance between being responsible and experiencing as much of the world and as many people as you can while you're not really tied down. Don't go too heavy to either side.

Acting like they are still in their teens.

Getting married before they've learned who they are as an adult and had the ability to see what's out there.

not beginning to save for retirement or emergencies. There are many (more than 1 I'm certain) of ways to earn money from your computer, and even if you earned a few dollars a day doing this, it adds up over many years.

Not taking work and/or school seriously. Whether you are at a job already or in college or tech school as your chosen path, work extremely hard and do it up right (be punctual, dedicated, and enthusiastic.) Life starts getting really hard after 25 if you’re uneducated, have limited work history/references. Hard as in you might start blowing dudes for your rent money so seriously, work your ass off when you’re young.

Over partying and drinking thinking their body will recover all the time. The older you get, the harder the recovery.

getting pregnant

Drinking too much. Spending too much. Credit cards. Loans.

Getting married.

Moving into an apartment with a boyfriend or girlfriend when you have only dated for 5 months....lease contract

Loose their virginity to a donkey or some shit like that, fam

Leasing an expensive car they can't afford. Buy a cheap car and a cheap house (assuming you plan on staying put). Then rent the house and buy a nicer house when ready for a family.

Marriage.

Just because a girl says she's on birth control doesn't mean she is. Young girls can be crazy when they think they are in love. Always use condoms cuz your broke ass is not going to be able to accomplish parenthood as well as you know you are capable of.

My daughter told me she can feel the dirty looks I get at pickup time for being 15 years younger than all the other parents. It's not fair to her that I am unable to mesh with my peers. It's hard af to get playdates. No one deserves to start out their social life with a handicap.

Getting someone who is not your spouse pregnant.

Getting hooked on drugs or alcohol

Just because the tag says serious doesn't mean every reply needs to be something Mr. Rogers would say. I think a lot of people in their 20s actually don't take enough chances and don't have enough fun. There's actually a very short window in life to fuck around that's truly like your 20s, where that glow of potential infuses everything. Too many people waste it being scared to mess up. Kiss the girl, go to the place, get the thing.

Passing up the opportunity to buy real estate or selling the apt I owned.

Not starting a 401k ASAP

Be less critical

cocaine

Don't waste your 20s as a shut-in who spends most of his waking time in front of the computer. You will regret it.

Getting into credit card debt. Don't do it.

It's mentioned elsewhere but saving for retirement is so important in your early 20's. Compound interest is really one of the only adult things on our side at that age, and every month you don't save is huge money left on the table in 40+ years.

One thing to know is that it's okay to fail. Your 20s are a transitional period. It's okay to experiment and fail. You may see your peers getting great jobs and relationships and be happy. That shouldn't put pressure on you, take life at your own pace. It's your life, don't let others affect it. There are people out there who love you and care for you no matter how you are living your life. Just try to find happiness in whatever you do. You can only live your 20s once.

Travel before you get too many responsibilities

Getting buried in debt and defaulting on those lines of credit.

Best advice I ever got "Don't get knocked up, locked up, or strung out"

Getting fat.

Staying at a non-career type job for too long.

Have kids

Unmanageable credit card debt. Purchasing a car that is too expensive. Taking student loans without a clear career goal. Not taking care of and understanding the impact of good credit. Spending too much money at bars. Not saving money early and often. Taking a good job for granted. Having unprotected sex. Not cherishing interpersonal relationships enough. Taking too many pictures instead of enjoying the view. Driving drunk. Drinking too much. Not taking care of mental health professionally. The list, unfortunately, goes on and on.

Don't just go to college because it's what people in their 20s do. Take time to think about what you want to do. What is important to you. What drives a passion for you. Then find something that can further feed that passion in school. Then find a good school to do that at. THAT is how one should approach college.

I wish I would have done that. I was pushed into college by my parents. I've been through enough college at 27 to have a degree and a half. But I've jumped majors enough to not finish any and I've finally figured out what I want to do but have no money left for the education I need. I'm debt free from college compared to most because I'm very careful with my money; nor do I regret the education I've gotten from my time in college. But I wish I would have waited till I figured out what drives me rather than jumping in because my parents said I should.

Suicide

Not traveling. Touring Europe as a retiree on a charter bus costs 10x as much as a Eurail pass and staying in hostels.

Get married

Reading this thread, apparently. Save money, do more. I have no money to save and and no energy to do anything

Rubbing your eyes..seriously it will just weaken your cornea!

Source?

My ophthalmologist :) But there are plenty of trustworthy sources on the internet confirming the same thing. Here is one : One of the largest Australia's providers of ophthalmic services

Get married.

Thinking you’re different then other people who try drugs and won’t be like them and get addicted.

Not starting a 401K

Any type of long term commitment obligation (e.g., marriage, military, home purchase) should take careful consideration to anybody under 25 years of age. There are many well known reasons as to why the brain does not fully comprehend long term consequences for those of the younger demographics. I can personally speak for 2 of the scenarios mentioned above - Feel free to send me a message if you are curious.

Start putting money in a 401k and don’t take it out!!!

Credit card debt. When it starts to cascade into thousands of dollars, you're mortgaging your future.

Death

Committing serious crime. Leave that until you're like 83.

Not spending your time goofing off. Keep learning but take years off to enjoy yourself. You’ll regret losing your 20s more than having to bust your ass a little harder as an “adult”.

Accidental children.

Like everyone has said about living a lifestyle you can not afford.. I would like to add that having kids is an expensive lifestyle.

Marriage

Work hard while your young. I work 50 hour weeks between two jobs just to save money for when I'm older. I still have time to do what I enjoy on weeknights and weekends

Attending Loyalist College in Belleville, Ontario.

Getting fat. It's so hard to get in shape in your 30s. Take care of yourselves!

In my opinion i think buying a car thats over 20,000 is always a bad idea. Most 20 years olds shouldn't even buy a 12,000 dollar car. Run a beater into the ground and afterwards if you really feel the need for a luxary car, then you can make that decision.

Often, one will realize that car served them well and there's no need to have an expensive car

Thinking too much about what other people think. This includes extended family, friends, co-workers, high school/university classmates, and people in public. All the pressure messes up your priorities and values, and you end up tired and unhappy.

Posting a question like this, might send you into a mid life crisis

A lot of people struggle with their identity as they transition to full blown adult. Be honest with yourself about who you are, what's important to you, and what you want to do.

Stop studying. I am 22 and I am currently suffering from that.

I graduated from college a year and a half ago, on a really bad economic/social prospect for my country.

Spent my first year off college unemployed, waiting for a opportunity to show up on my field, procrastinating lots. Nothing showed up, and I started 2018 with a shitty job just to save some money, nothing related to what I wanted.

Going to that job makes me depressed, and I am fully aware I need to start studying again, learn another language and extend my knowledge in my area. Problem is, I got accommodated, and breaking the inertia/procrastination habits is incredibly hard.

I finally started exercising, and hopefully that will motivate me into pursuiting better stuff instead of wasting the best/most productive time of my life in stupid shit ✌

EDIT: started 2018 with a shit job, not 2017

Good on you for exercising and doing whatever you can to make your life better. My 20s were tough. Keep hacking away at it.

Thanks.

Hope you are doing better now

Not investing in your retirement. It's much easier when your young and the compounding interest does all the work for you eventually.

letting themselves go physically and gaining a ton of weight. it’s not easy to claw your way back in your 30s

Having Kids.

Starting to sell drugs in case you dont plan on going to jail or killing people cause thats where youre heading...

Thinking Short Term especially money wise. Gotta Think for the long run

talking to much and not listening to older people.....YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING IN YOUR 20s! N.O.T.H.I.N.G!

Avoiding work.

I've seen so, so many 20-somethings that are barely employed, or not employed at all, because they're chasing something, or because they like the freedom of little work.

Don't get me wrong, I'll take all the free-time I can, too. But you gotta be realistic about what's going to happen, the moment you actually start searching for work. I know a ton of employers, and here's what they'll think, 99 out of 100 times, when they see 20-somethings with little to no work on their resume:

1) Why should we hire you, when you have nothing to show for?

2) Does this candidate actually need to work? Will he suddenly drop everything and leave, when he's tired?

3) Are they hiding something? (getting fired)

4) Are they afraid of work? Lazy?

Basically: Get work experience, it doesn't mater what it is. Your 20's will fly by you, and when the day comes that you want to start a career, having no work-experience will put you last just about everywhere. Doesn't mater if you have a 4.0 GPA from the best schools, most employers are going to assume that you're a very risky hire, and not worth the hassle.

(One exception would be some huge financial crisis, or market burst, where you can hide in the masses of unemployed people).

And if you're not working, do something that's meaningful and that you can show for. Just don't sit on your ass waiting for something to happen...a week turns into months, months turn into years, and suddenly you're 29, wondering where all the years went.

Marrying the wrong person.

Not saving money

Not investing in your retirement as early as possible. Working with people who are well into their 60s who need to work to pay bills is heart breaking.

Entering into a long term co-dependent relationship.

Being in a band.

speaking from experience, cocaine and car crashes

Falling in love with person.

Buying things

Tips: Always save money then spend the remainder, not the other way around.

Thinking that you need to go to university to be successful. I firmly believe out of high school I needed to go to university because "everyone else" was going. One year later I was a drop out making minimum wage in a warehouse. 3 years later I went back to trade school and now have a decent paying career that I actually wake up wanting to go to every day.

Buying/leasing a nice car instead of buying a starter home and moving out of their parent's basement.

In general: You're not indestructable. You only get one body, so take that into consideration please. I'm 26, been all over the world, had a lot of fun, but because of the disregard for my safety I now feel like I'm 50. Basically, just remember to take care of yourself or you may end up like me. I can't do a lot of the hobbies and activities that I used to enjoy. (rock climbing, rucking, running, etc.)

For veterans: Don't rely soley on your chapter 33. Short month, holidays, and wait times between semesters means way less pay. I've seen it really fuck over some fellow vets. Just get a part time job and you're golden.

When I was in my early to mid 20's, I had decent income and hardly any expenses. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. So, I spent my money on frivolous things.

Now I'm in my early 30's, I know EXACTLY what I want to do with my life (build guitars. carbon fiber guitars.) But I have a mortgage, a kid, and no startup capital. Getting started building my dream business is always a year or two away. Meanwhile I work a crap job that lets me just barely scrape by.

Gotta disagree with the folks that say having a kid when not financially ready is a mistake. My wife and I knew we would never be ready financially. If we waited too long, she'd be too old to have a kid. So we did it anyway. My daughter's the best decision we ever made.

I always thought I was tired in my 20’s. Now I have 4 kids and really know the meaning of tired.

Spending their whole paycheck without saving anything.

Not trying new things, not taking risks, not exploring the world (in whatever way you choose). I took the civil service exam after I graduated from college and was offered a job with the Social Security administration. It would've made me socially secure, but pretty unhappy, I suspect. Instead, I worked part-time jobs to make a minimal living, and tried my hand at doing what I loved, being a poet and writer. Which eventually led me into teaching creative writing, hosting a public radio show, working as a speech writer in the business world, and then going back to graduate school in psychology to pursue a career I only realized I cared about in my mid-30s. And then I changed course again in my mid-50s as I discovered new things that I cared about. But it all started in my 20s when I was willing to try things that were a little off the beaten path.

Spending tons of money on clothes that you will not have in a little bit of time.

Open a seperate bank account and shred the debit card. Then throw money in that account whenever you can as a savings that you can't dip into so easily.

Getting horny and making a sex tape or streaming on a live cam site.

Not saying how you really feel ( in romantic terms). Too many times in life people stay quiet, so many times have I been suprised by how people react when I tell them I miss them etc.

Not doing something.

Literally, anything.

I'm in my late 20s and I think about the responsibilities I have now and how they prevent me from doing something.

Then I remember I thought that when I was 18

Then I remember I thought that when I was 13

It just never ends. You're not going to find yourself magically having the time to pursue things you want to do, or "should" do. Should is the worst word in any self conversation. I should exercise more. I should eat better. I should have gone to that party. I should have drank more water last night. Should is the voice of regret. Should is a motivation killer. Should is a motivation vacuum.

The take away here is do. Do something. Do anything. There's something amazing around the corner if you just do. Maybe you'll learn you never liked metalwork in the first place and was just attracted to it because forges are cool and you spent a chunk of childhood dreaming about medieval stuff, swordfighting with your friends. But if you spend all the time wondering, and not doing, you'll never end up with a bastard sword above your mantle. But you will have the nagging thoughts of what could have been if you had just spent the time to find out.

Following what your dick wants to do over s fulfilling future. Or in meme format.

Who would win?

A happy life with a wife and kids

Some hard stick between your legs.

Listening to people who have “been there and done that”.

That means in your career, health and personal life.

I wish I took the advice of people older than me. Your body stops playing nice around 30 and making up lost years in your career path isn’t easy.

Just because you can afford a down payment for something, does not mean you can afford the actual item!!! Also rent should only be 30% of your monthly income.

I notice a lot of people here are giving sensible advice. I can't help but feeling that when you are in your twenties you should live your life like you are in your twenties. Now that I'm almost old, I tend to look back on my youth and regret the things I didn't do - those clothes that I wanted to wear but didn't because they showed too much cleavage, the times I didn't get up and do something because I was too shy, the adventures I didn't have, and that one time when I went backstage and could have slept with a pop star but didn't because I was worried that I had b.o. from sweating so much in the mosh pit.

Sure, it would also have been good if I'd though about my future fiscal state, invested in this or that, looked after my teeth better, worked on my career blah blah, but at the end of the day there's plenty of time to be middle aged when you are middle aged.

CREDIT CARD(S)!!!!!

Still trying to get rid of them in my early 30’s.

And switching jobs too frequently so that’s your resume looks like shyt.

Not trying to max your ROTH. Try to max your ROTH, put it in an Index fund (ask if you need help).

Second, work on your people skills. Don't burn bridges.

Not starting a fitness routine. I started exercising when I was 27. I absolutely hated it at first, then loved it. I kept up with it for ten years, and now I am doing much better than my peers, many of whom have gained new...shapes.

I'm in my early 20's but I can already tell some stuff that I've witnessed will royally fuck up someones life for the far future.

Have insurance- I know someone who got into a crash that totaled his and the persons car. He had one of those $10 a month insurance plans and he now owes thousands.

Don't drink every night- your in college and it's fine to have a beer or two but don't drink whenever possible. I also know someone who is on a strait path to alcoholism.

Save money- you may have a shit job but $10 a week towards savings adds up extremely fast. I once saved my own ass after I pulled a muscle and couldn't work for a week. That $300 I had saved up helped me so much by just being able to rest a day and not be financially crippled

And finally Family is there to help- most of us have family that would be willing to help in some way wether it be giving you some gas money or even letting you use their washing machine. Just remember that people are willing to help.

I would honestly say, having children. I did, I don't regret it but it set me back in many ways. I have a great job now but that's because I had great support. If my mother wasn't as doting as she is I would be royally fucked.

Question-I’m 20 and just graduated from college in psychology. I have no experience and have only worked retail. I don’t want to go back to school and I’ve been applying to jobs for a year now, anyone have any tips?

Try entry level HR (human resources) jobs. They like psych majors and you have a career path.

Thinking that they can’t be in a serious relationship in their 20’s, that they need to ‘explore’ before ever settling down, despite having possibly already met (and f****d over) the right person.

If you buy a house never miss a mortgage payment. Talk to the loan originator before defaulting on payments.

I’m way too late to this thread, but mine was taking care of my back. My back isn’t completely ruined, but I’ve thrown it out a few times and it’s a downward slope. Every time it happens it’s progressively worse, and each time it happens it takes less strain for it to happen again the next time. In my early 20’s I could lift anything without batting an eye. When you swap over to the late 20’s... just stop. It’s not worth it. Get help moving heavy shit.
Pulling your back out is debilitating. Takes weeks to fully recover. Hobbling around at work for that long because you tried to lift something you shouldn’t have is embarrassing.

Not starting a budget. People on here are saying not to spend money on stupid stuff. Sure, that sounds good or you can spend money on stupid stuff if you know that you can afford it. Make an excel spreadsheet and track your spending each month. If someone had told me to make a budget, instead of just not buying stupid stuff and minor money hiccups along the way, I would have been in my own place sooner. Just keep track

Having kids they don't want and can't afford

Getting married in little time without thinking about it. It could end up being part of your life that changes everything about your life when you could’ve explored, experimented, and figured out who you were. Don’t get me wrong, I said could for a reason. Also, not getting tested for STDs/STIs when you’re sleeping around. Just because you tell the truth doesn’t mean your sexual partner did.

Not taking risks to do what you want with your life

Pursuing a career you have no interest in, for fear of dissapointing your family.

Getting a major credit card before truly understanding how credit works and how income to debt ratio factors in when you are older and trying to finance certain things.

Actually sounds pretty good. Saves someone a few years of tuition and they get paid along the way.

Moving your life in a certain direction because that’s what you’re “supposed” to do. Ex: getting married because you’ve been together for two yrs..

Work your ass off in the gym. When you get older, chances are you’re not gonna feel like it. Muscle memory is a real thing, and you’ll thank your 20-30’s you.

Opiod abuse

Taking a trade secret when switching companies...

everything to do with finance and debt and money in general...

Not travel enough.

Here is a TED talk all about this very question!

for women I really feel like its not investing in your future, relationships, money, etc. I know a tonnnn of women that think life is a party until you're 40 and then you just pick yourself a good man and settle down....its not like that at all.

For men, not sure, am a man in my 20s so it seems hard for me to have a perspective on that. If I had to guess, it would probably be not investing in friendships we make in college afterwards, or drug/alcohol abuse.

Also for dudes, if you feel isolated, depressed, alone etc. GET A THERAPIST. Talking about your feelings in a safe environment does way more good than you probably think.

Have friends.....Ive accomplished alot at 22 and it's partly since I don't have anyfriends :p so it's a double edged sword I guess. Lack of a personnal life in order too accomplish being financially stable,with a job and steady income while starting school.

Getting offended by having their world view challenged.

Well reading this as a 26yo makes me feel a little bit better about myself since I've not made many of the mistakes pointed out and I've already been following some of the advice pointed out but there is a lot of good info in this thread

Using a credit card. Moreso, using a credit card over a $2,000 limit.

It is handy to use one, however it should be something paid off in full by your next pay day, or within the month at most. Never let it go beyond what you can afford and prioritise all your savings towards paying any debt off first. If you don’t, you’re left with the illusion you have money to spend elsewhere.

2 years later, I’m 24, just recently paid off a stupid $11,000 debt on my credit card. Could’ve been on my way to a house deposit had I been smarter.

I thought I was all set to use my full $200 limit and then my job cut my hours. And then my brother unplugged the mini fridge I was keeping my food in. So I've had to rely on my mom for food, and many times had to just buy something with my card. Gonna be a few months before I pay it off, and honestly I'm scared shitless right now. At least it's only $200 I suppose. Interest isn't too too terrible either, so I'm hopeful for being able to pay the interest AND the balance.

Believing her when she says she's on birth control.

Always pull out.

AND wear a condom.

I haven't worn a condom since the 90s. A few simple rules and you can have unprotected sex and remain STD free and child free.

I'm 29 and this thread gives me anxiety.

Getting into debt. Biggest mistake ever.

Getting married too fast. I got married at 22. I thought she was the one but I had only dated 2 people after high school. She was not the one and tore my heart out. I ended up finding the one a few years later and have never been happier.

Softens the blow if you just never get married. Buy her a ring if she wants, but after seeing what my parents' divorce did to them, I will never sign a marriage license.

Start saving for retirement yesterday

Spending too much money on alcohol

I see a lot of top posts assuming this person in their twenties can afford more than surviving and has no kids. My suggestion is learn how little you can spend and try to not have kids. As far as what you should not do: don't burn down bridges. The most important advantage to your future is your network of connections. Don't worry about mistakes because others will forget them. If they don't forget, acknowledge that you made that mistake because it will build trust.

Knocking up a girl you don't plan on spending the rest of your life with

Knock up some random girl

Get a DUI

Do hard drugs

Get it too much debt

Don’t learn a trade or go to college

[deleted]

I don’t consider LSD hard drugs. I did LSD a few times and it was pretty cool.

Heroine, crack, meth, morphine, pills, things that ruin lives or kill you.

Not getting a fucking job until you're over 25.

A few words of advise.... Don't get a credit card. Use a condoms during sex. If hard times with the family happen or you lose a significant other, avoid alcohol use during these times. Stop talking shit about other people, if you have to, write down what you think about the slimy son-of-a-bitch on a piece of paper then throw it out. Gruges may be the root of any cancer, kill grudges immediately. Invest in yourself, learn as much as you can about a passion and capitalize on it. It will make you money and you will be so happy. Learn how to cook, this does more than feed you but it will help you grow in more ways than one.

Running up their debt and not paying it off. Basically money management skills.

I never realized how secretly conservative reddit was until reading all these responses lol

Messing up your credit.

Buying a brand new car. You will probably be struggling until you make over $50k.

Getting stuck in a job that you hate. This is me right now and I need to push myself to change something about it.

Not getting out of a toxic relationship. You've got your whole life ahead of you - if you do not look forward to being with your SO when you spend time with them, or don't look forward to talking to them, getting a text/email from them, etc. - get out of it.

Get pregnant/get someone else pregnant

Don't let college discourage you from further education. I was burnt out from college and never thought I would go back. I goy my bachelor's in electrical engineering and I really didn't enjoy it at all. I was laid off after a couple of years at my first joband had a breakdown. I didn't have any skills I was confident in and I no longer had any passion for the field I studied.

I haven't gone back to college, but I'm in an online class that's really helping me get more confidence and skills. If you aren't where you want to be, research and make a plan to get there. You can learn so much online.

Another step to success was addressing my depression and anxiety. I was accepting my situation as normal (which was easy to do because everyone in my family felt similarly and we are tight-knit). You'll have to do some work to get things going, but you'll be surprised by how helpful and supportive people are.

Not saving money

My biggest mistake in my 20s was keeping friends and family in my life that were there when I was younger just because they were there when I was younger, completely ignoring how toxic they were to my adulthood. This goes for anyone who mooches off of you or encourages you to be lazy or stupid, anyone who puts their self interest in front of you ALWAYS. They're not terrible in your teens because let's face it, we're all shitheads in our teens... but in your 20s they can really screw up your future, and if they don't grow up, they can really stop you from growing up. This is when you have to start getting a little more serious, and if someone is stopping you from getting there, dump them.

Marriage

Trying to make money based on getting a commission for recruiting people to do the same thing...

Those Pyramid (or whatever shape they think they are these days) schemes.

Cocaine

Not saving. Man did I fuck that up. Earned a great wage and squandered it on forgettable nights out thinking staying out and buying more booze was the key.

I’m not saying don’t have fun or go out, but just be mindful that your 30s will roll around real quick. I wasted too much money and time chasing a good time and to be honest, you don’t remember most of them. Put aside 20-25% of your pay no matter what you earn. In your 20s it’s easier to get by with less than it is when you are 30+. This nest egg will come in handy when you’re older and want to: get married, buy a house, get laid off and can’t find work for 6 Months, have a baby.

Drugs?

27 here.

Save to apply to investments

And/or

Invest in your job 401-403ks

I see way too many of my peers just blowing every penny they get

Getting married too soon to the wrong person.

never finishing college when it’s within reach.

source: decided to work to make more money, got laid off and joined the army, now i’m 28 and a sophomore in college.

Meth

Not starting to invest and prepare for retirement. Started with $50 a month in an IRA 25 years ago. Increased with every raise and lifestyle change. Now comfortably putting 15% aside. If you keep inching away you end up covering a lot of distance. If you keep saying i will have the money to invest tomorrow you never will.

Thinking they are special.

Wearing flip flops for a decade.

Going to college without a plan

Marrying the wrong person.

Cost me half my retirement.

Burn bridges. It is amazing how connections weave back and forth in life. This happens in very unexpected ways. Stay kind and professional.

For one thing - not to take relationships for granted. As in, have a false sense of reality vs expectation. Now that I'm in my 30s, I am finally appreciating and loving my wife for who she is and not what I expected her to be. I'm still working on it though.

For another - even when you have your life and goals all planned out and ready to be implemented, be ready to have all of that changed. The things that you once believed in will either be proven false, your perspective changed, or gets solidified. This goes for faith, world view, or anything else in between.

Third, and one that I've had to really learn - your self worth isn't found by how much you make or how much you've accomplished. Those things certainly do give you a great sense of pride. Your self worth is found in who you are as a person and how you can be at peace with yourself and with the world. It seems like an odd, abstract concept but it's one that I realize is very much necessary to have from your 20s and throughout your life.

You will hit moments and stages wondering if you have ever done enough, accomplished enough, or hold value in another's eyes. What really matters is the value that you hold for yourself. Everything else should be an extension of that.

Thinking that happiness can be achieved. For example thinking that once you have that dream job out of school or yoi have met that perfect partner - then you will be all set and happy forever.

Screwing up a great job opportunity. I have a great job and I’ve seen several people, including myself make career limiting mistakes due to immaturity or inexperience. Luckily, the people that witnessed the mistakes weren’t management and everyone could just laugh it off.

You’re allowed to have fun, but risking your career over something small is idiotic.

Mine wouldn’t have gotten me fired, but it taught me a lesson on being an adult.

I was in a training class and the woman running the class was diagramming, but it ended up looking indisputably like boobs. I made a comment to a friend in the class. She heard me being disruptive and asked what was worth interrupting the class. I honestly answered. She rolled her eyes and I sheepishly finished the class.

I couldn’t help the chuckling, but now, 15ish years later, I’d just excuse myself and have the giggles in the hallway alone.

I’ve seen some pretty impressive drunk performances at conferences. If the employee is well liked it can be laughed at, but if not, it creates a great opportunity to find a cause for firing.

I wish I had gone to school and taken it more seriously in my 20's. I also picked the wrong men to date.

Live within your means and know what you're spending and what you're spending it on. Getting a budget program like YNAB was a game changer and allowed me to go from years of making payments to being able to pay things off and not having any outstanding debt other than a house and a car.

Don't play the gossip game. It's toxic. Remove those people from your life if possible and if not then minimize them from your life. Having friends like that isn't worth what it can do to your head. Same for the drama queens and moochers.

Don't keep up with the Jones's. It's not worth it. It's a bad mind set to have and it'll end up eating up your time and resources. You don't need everything the neighbors might have. You also don't need to try to live the life you see others living on Instagram. Unless you're a trust fund baby you'll just end up older and broke. Not only that but those people try to make it look better than it is. They don't show the pictures of how 29 of the 30 porta-potties at that festival had mounds of crap so high they stuck out of the toilet seat.

Don't have kids until you realize what it actually means. It isn't just a matter of having the money to take care of them too. You need to be emotionally ready to take care of them. Are you ready to deal with all the ups and downs? Are you ready to sit through a couple hours of some of the worst banged out symphony music you've ever heard? Are you ready to tell a 5 year old that not everyone can win all the time and that not everyone will always make the team?

Don't get that fast car until later in life unless you can really afford it. The expenses are enough to think about but what about your heavy foot? Watch the news to see what happens in a high speed accident. Wait until you're older and more disciplined and can enjoy it with low insurance rates. Don't drink / drug and drive either. Yes MJ counts. You're still impaired.

Every job has it's issues. Choose your battles and try to decide if the issues are petty or if they really are worth leaving over. Job hopping may not look as bad as it used to in some circumstances but too many lateral moves look bad and companies don't want to invest in someone that may not be around tomorrow.

Go to college / secondary school for something the job market will be looking for in 4-5 years and beyond. If you get a job and it teaches you more than school then consider not finishing. Another 20k in financing may not be worth it depending on your field. Sometimes if you can get enough years of experience under your belt it's good enough.

Read and understand legal contracts you sign. Companies don't care if you don't, they'll still catch you on the fine print and make you pay. Learn your rights.

Vote. It's your future. Don't let the old farts on their way out the door sell your future out from under you.

Seconds on voting. VOTE people! That's how we got to where we are, by not enough people thoughtfully voting.

Voting is the way to BE the change. Not posting or memes on social media. It's the easiest way to make sure your voice is heard in a way that matters. Make sure to check your vote, after it's cast, on your local recorders office web site too in in order to make sure it was recorded and counted.

Buy a new car. Early twenties at least. Focus on mortgage first

People in the 20s are hungry. Like they are willing to work harder than they should. Use that hunger to get a good step forward. Later in life you won't have that naive hype.

Getting married and having children. People seem to think that the way life is "supposed" to go is you get a job, move out, find someone to marry and have kids. Both marriage and reproduction are NOT FOR EVERYONE and certainly not something to jump into in your 20s. Bonus points for by far the worst mistake you can make, having a kid in a misguided effort to "save" a shitty marriage.

Not going for it. Whatever "it" is. Just do it, try it, make it happen. If it doesn't work out, try something else. Keep going and trying everything. Soon you'll be thirty and wonder why you've just started a new business or found a new hobby. Don't get me wrong, thrifty isn't to late. But being young and able bodied is a blessing. Use it to your advantage and keep trying things until something sticks. Then try some more shit out.

Trading upside down for a new car every 18 months

Buying a time share. Don’t do it!!!!

Quit ciggs now! Not tomorrow, not next week, do it now. My life has completely changed and I wish I had done it earlier. 6 months ago I was hovering at 300lbs and was tired walking up a flight of steps. Now, I work out 6 days a week, have fuck tons of energy, and tons of energy to fuck and do other things. Food tastes awesome too, no more dumping hot sauce on everything just so I can taste. I also was pre- diabetic and had high blood pressure, last week I was at 128/76 and there are zero signs of diabetes. It all started with quitting my pack a day habit. Never again.

I'm guessing the best responses will be downvoted.

Giving gold to strangers on the internet instead of saving up responsibly.

So confused about everything. Lol

Haven’t seen this one in here but lose the ego. You don’t know everything, and aren’t the center of the world.

Seriously take a look at yourself and what you want to do in life and get going. Couldn’t tell you the amount of friends that didn’t do this and thought they would never pay for their mistakes.

Drugs

Falling in love. Not being employed. Not having a car. Using any type of illegal drug. Not cherishing/spending time with family.

You’re becoming an example for future generations so do your best.

Get a felony

Not trying to find themselves and following others

Just stay in school, kids

Going to California state prison for three different terms between 20-30

Don't put off saving for retirement. 401K, IRA, ROTH IRA, find a vehicle and start putting money into it. When you are 50 -55 and work starts to suck.....you'll have options.

Not going to class. Don't throw your college tuition down the drain. Take it from someone whose 10k in the hole with nothing to show for it. And 10k isn't even that bad.

Doing all the drugs. Do some. Not all.

Living with your significant other.

Brush your teeth. Financial mistakes can be paid off, but you can't re-grow bone. Brush your fucking teeth.

Believing that debt is ok to have because we "must have it" to be successful and happy, I always tell people this, ask people you know, ask a stranger, (that's a nice car, how much is the monthly payment), then realize, that is debt, not wealth, what we see around us everywhere is debt, very few of us actually outright own what we have, what we actually own, the money we have, assets that are ours, that is your net worth, when you have debt you are at a net loss, if you understand this then apply it to your life you will learn that you don't need to be in debt to make your life work, it works because you live within your means, and another thing you learn is what your comfortable making, this will push you to learn to improve your situation rather then running on a treadmill like most.

20 years old (I'm relaying my story of listening to those who have made mistakes)

Became an alcoholic at 17/18, stopped working out and eating right after a series of concussions (I played high level hockey, they weren't from drinking), maxed out a credit card, dropped out of college because I wasn't there for the right reasons, totaled a beautiful GTI and so very nearly caught a DUI or died in that event.

Then I spent nearly a year in sober living listening truly listening to guys talking about all the mistakes they've made. Proud to say I'm starting to really listen to their advice (the same stuff my parents and grandparents had been telling me for years). I'm working an awesome job now and saving as much as I can for when I eventually go back to finish my degree and for what will come after that. I paid off my debt and closed my CC account. I have written out my life goals and the steps I plan to take to get there.

Life isn't all peaches now, but it's a whole lot better now that I listen to those who have lived through it. Take a step back and look at the big picture. If you cannot do that... best of luck until you can

Getting married.

Your body pays for your choices today. That knee you banged and hurt for a week straight? Kills you every time the weather changes. Never sleep? Welcome to insomnia for decades. If it isn't normal, take care of it.

Giving up on things or even get straight up depressed and locked up on yourself because you can only compare yourself to others - negatively.

Related to this, also: Believing that other people got lucky and have had it easy. Even if ttue, who cares? Will that improve your life and make you grow?

Getting addicted to alcohol.

Getting pets before you have a stable career and living situation. When you're starting out you have to be flexible. Pets mean that you are forced to choose between being a neglectful pet owner and staying late for work, attending after work social networking, being able to travel, and any number of other things that keep you out of the house for an extended period of time. You'll need to burden others to pick up your slack either with the pets or with the work and it limits personal development. If you don't have a stable living situation you are instantly removing 85% of your options when finding a place to live.

Getting married and having kids.

Get pregnant

Don't let personal problems or past issues build up to the point that they sabatoge other parts of your life. Try to recognize that you need to focus on mending a part of yourself before it ruins something important whether it be your schooling, career path, or relationships.

Getting married. If you think you’ll be together forever. Then just wait. Really.

Wasting money on rent just to move out when they could live with their parents longer to save up and buy a house, not exercising, wasting money in general, not furthering their career, etc

Crime drugs and financial mistakes---they will follow you the rest of your life. And America never ever forgives cons...because so many of us forget that we are lucky enough to make mistakes without criminal prosecution.

Taking on massive amounts of debt via student loans and/or credit cards. I’m in my 30s and just finished paying off the credit card debt I accrued in my 20s.

Don't go to college just because you feel like you have to, and don't stay in college while you figure out what you want to do. Do your two years undeclared, and if you're not sure what you want to study still, take some time off. I'm 27 and at the end of a graduate program, and I'm realizing I don't want to do what I've spent the last decade of my life studying.

There's nothing wrong with not going to college either. It's not the only path to success, and don't ever let anyone look down on you if it's not your personal path to success.

Kids. Unless you're stable financially, in a strong relationship and emotionally (somewhat) ready, DO NOT GET SOMEONE PREGNANT.

Buy a new car from the dealership, 9 times out of 10 you’re going to get fucked over

Complete any education goals and travel if you’re even remotely interested in starting a family. Both are really hard once there are more people in your life that need/want your time.

Also, live within your means, invest in retirement early, try new things, savor free time, talk to a lot of different people, and wear a condom.

Letting your best friend tag in..

Getting married/being in serious long-term relationships. I got married in my 20s, and aside from all the emotional pain that a divorce causes, you spend all of your energy on the relationship and not furthering yourself in life. You could finish school on time, work, save up some money, and then really focus on a long term relationship and you'll be so much happier.

People in their 20s typically have no idea how hard it is for mortals to be very good at one thing. The secret: work like hell to get really good at one thing you love (it will take at least 10,000 hours). Once you get very good at that one thing (slide guitar, writing fiction, cooking cakes, making furniture, astrophysics, medieval women's history, or whatever), get fearlessly creative and push the boundaries on that one thing and rewrite the rules and give it your own personal style. Unless you are a genius, successfully pushing the boundaries happens in your 40s, 50s, and 60s after at least a decade of prep work. Find what you love, focus intensely, work like a dog, but never forget the importance of creativity, thinking dramatically outside the box, and creating something heartbreakingly beautiful and distinctively yours that reimagines your practice.

Being in a relationship

Getting addicted to substances or vices as a way to reduce stress. I have friends who are unrecognizable now due to years of alcohol abuse, they gained massive amounts of weight or look completely bloated and different.

Not taking calculated risks or letting a failure prevent you from taking smart risks.

Don't let someone convince you to stay at a job or stay in your hometown or whatever the case is with the threat of failure.

Failure is a part of life and the sooner you start failing the sooner you can start improving. Obviously you shouldn't take unnecessary risks for the sake of taking risks, but I can tell you from personal experience that the amount of times taking a risk has paid off is more beneficial than playing it safe...even if it can be painful at times.

If anyone’s found this comment please can I have advice? I’m from the UK but I want to move to Canada, has anyone ever made a move from a country after uni in their 20s and could offer some guidance as it’s what I really want to do but super daunting!

People don't become successful because they relaxed, spent money, and had a crazy time while they were young. If you want to be successful you need to get your shit together and work your ass off so you can enjoy your life when you get older. Your investments are exponentially worse every year you wait to make them.

save save save save money

Im 26 and I regret not having my finances in order earlier.

Acquiring debt. That shit is hard to get out from under.

Having children before the age of 26.

Tattoos are awesome. The tide is slowly changing on people's perception of them and those that have them...but we're not there yet. Lots of older and super judgemental people hold positions of power at companies.

I would highly recommend not getting one visible ablove a shirt's neckline when you're young. Honestly any tattoos you can't easily cover for work is going to make you be discriminated against but face, neck and hand tattoos get extra negative judgment. You're not only limiting yourself now but setting back your future self.

So think real long term on tattoo location. I hate to say it but especially women who plan to have kids . More than your belly will enlarge, stretch and then likely be looser than it was pre-pregnancy. Places like thighs, upper arms, breasts are very prone to significant change with weight fluctuations.

I see lots of people I know who got tattoos when we were young. Most of them look like total shit. They got them in bad locations and they are all distorted plus they are fading and blurring. Also most of them we not great work to start with. Cover up tattoos are possible but keep these facts in mind. Not every artist will do them. The cover-up will have to be significantly larger. Your options as far as design and color are limited as well.

Don't get some cheap work done by someone you don't know jack about. Do your research and find a good artist. Have conversations with them about what you want, what they can do, about how much it will cost and save up for it. Some may even charge art or consultation fees just to do this... that's not necessarily a bad thing! Their time is money, their custom art even just working up some ideas is money, so don't be surprised by this.

That $60 thing you picked off the wall and had scribbled on your thigh by some random person is going to look like shit now and even worse 10 years +20lbs later.

PS:. Big ear plugs and other ... loud... piecings are also going to have the same effect. You WILL be discriminated against. Bitch about it all you want but face the facts and accept the consequences of your decisions.

Spending money with expensive clothes, shoes, drinks. It's all fun and games until you realised time passed and instead of doing real things for yourself, you wasted loads of money with fake friends and a bunch of stuff you never needed in the first place.

Oh and having sex with men who doesn't make you feel special. I'm not talking about love, I'm talking about the minimum of intimacy and respect you should demand, the self esteem hangover is dreadful.

Not being healthy; your setting yourself up for a life time of heath issues and possibly an early death.

Don't go abroad to fight in foreign wars.

Not starting their retirement planning and 401K as soon as possible. The earlier you start, the more comfortable you will be when you eventually retire.

-Staying in a career you hate because you think you've invested too much time in it. -Staying in a relationship because you think you've invested too much time in it. -Having children before you're ready. Don't let a partner pressure you become a parent before you are ready to take on that responsibility. Take the time to explore if you are truly ready for kids, and if so how many. -Buying a home too soon -Not exploring the world why you can

Every time you buy something, save some money of any sort. If you decide not to buy something after some thought, save what you were going to spend.

Be careful with drugs. 23 now but quit drinking and smoking weed in December. It was amazing how fast I felt mentally and physically better. I work in the music scene and seeing all these kids backstage pumped off cocaine is very sad. Every single one of them tells me to never start using.

Being more infatuated with the short term rather than planning for the long term

In my case I chased tang instead of establishing myself financially

I think the biggest mistake is thinking that any one mistake will take you down forever. I got deep in student debt in my 20’s, felt like my life was over and spent the next 20 years trying to fulfill that prophecy. At 43, I now understand it will only hurt me to wallow in misery, the world doesn’t care and shouldn’t. But the best part is that i’m only 43 with my whole life ahead of me!

Thinking they are smarter and wiser than others.

Focusing on short term fun over long term goals. Never take a day off the long term goals; persistence wins the race. You can have short work days, but never take a zero day.

Being content with an associates degree, going to work, realizing it's not enough and then trying to go back to school to try to get your bachelor's or masters.

Credit cards. You'll pay it off later? Yeah, we all had that plan. Just don't.

Thinking that you know everything. You’re in your 20s, you have soooo much left to learn.

Being afraid of starting over or staying the course because of expectation. If you're not happy, and I mean you're miserable or being ground down or this isn't the path for you, or surrounded by toxicity, or people not bringing out the best in you, don't be afraid to hit the eject button.

You're in your 20s, you can jettison all the bullshit away and start again relatively easy. Like the only forseeable problem might be cash considerations - most people are broke as fuck in their 20s so you might be diving into the deep on that. But you presumably don't have many commitments or serious requirements like a child or what not - you do you to the fullest and become the best person you can be.

Losing track of good friends from high school and college.

Getting into credit card debt.

honestly this is making me depressed.

Gonna get alot of flak...dating.

Ruining their credit.

Participating in any type of mlm. Naive people can make negative money for years and destroy their credit and destroy all of their personal and professional relationships.

Not traveling enough. Take a solo trip when you can afford. In 30s you will most probably have family, budget, not enough holidays, health issues maybe. Take a trip, explore the world when you have energy and positive view of the world.

Not saving for a house.

Getting a credit card.

When I was in my twenties I worried I wasn’t cool and beautiful like twenty-somethings in the media. What a waste of emotional energy.

Not knowing how to cook and constantly spending money on takeout or dining out.

But a house after landing your first good job. Seriously wait. You may outgrow your company or your company’s ability to make you happy. It really sucks being stuck with a house that you can’t sell because the market yada yada yada while all you want to do is love on with your life in potentially a new city. Commuting sucks balls. Commuting an hour and a half each way sucks massive sweaty hairy balls.

Not paying attention to warning signs for health issues.

Just fucking off in general trying to hard to be in your 20s and not taking anything serious

Thinking that their metabolism will keep up with partying and drinking and eating fast food. Currently dealing with the consequences of that.

making a car your biggest expense. seriously. don't be that guy in his 20's that gets a brand new audi/beamer/whatever but rents a crap apartment. The only girls who are impressed by that are ones in highschool. and also don't be hooking up with highschool girls.

Going to grad school. Sigh.

Quit/don’t start smoking!!!

It takes a long time for your lungs to return to normal.

Student loans.

Maybe college in general.

Used to be worth it, like... 40 years ago.

Not paying attention to their credit.

Not fulfilling their destiny and not living up to their full potential.

  1. Taking life to seriously and not having fun.
  2. Not traveling whenever possible.
  3. Doing heroin/opioids or meth.

Credit card debt. More than one of my friends have maxed 5-6 of those $300 limit credit cards out and are still suffering from it..

Spending your hard-earned money on alcohol. If you want to drink, instead pick up the hobby of making your own.

Not putting even a small percentage of their earnings into retirement.

Hanging on to friendships or relationships that bring you down. If you have certain goals or a lifestyle that you are trying to achieve, you need to surround yourself with other people that reflect those values.

Finish the decade with the same outlook and life they had at the beginning of the decade.

Treating college as their political apex and personal soap box, neglecting the fact they are paying a ton of money to LEARN.

Getting a liberal arts degree. Truly worse than being addicted to heroine.

Staying in a relationship after the trust has been broken. When your young and prideful and full of love and shame, you want to bury it down inside and work through it and second chances are good but at a certain point holding on is harmful and you waste your youth continuing to build for a half-cracked future. Don’t be me.

Buying, reselling, and getting acquainted with good old depreciation.

Not saving for retirement.

Not taking their credit seriously. Almost nothing can fuck with you more than being irresponsible with payments. Stay on top of it and life is Soo much easier. Source: fucked my credit up in my 20s. Took a long time to get it corrected.

Wasting your prime surfing websites like this one day after day. There will be plenty of time to do that when you're older and tied down. Experience your world while your body can handle the physical abuse.

Being sent to jail.

Having an unplanned child.

Not brushing your teeth.

Being afraid to try anything for fear of failure: there is plenty of time for failure later in life so just do it... uh... not the child and the jail part.

financing a 10 year old BMW is a terrible idea.

credit cards shouldnt be used for anything but emergencies otherwise use only what's in your spending account and pay it off monthly. Try to avoid going over 70% of limit.

Wear a fucking condom because the 10 minutes of shitty sex isn't worth an STD or marrying someone you hate and a kid then getting a fucking divorce and saying goodbye to half your pay cheque.

Not setting themselves up for a savings or retirement plan. Seriously So many clients who are never going to retire because they thought the equivalent of that 10 year old BMW was a solid idea in their 20s. 1 bad credit or financial decision haunts you for a very long time.

A good chunk of people I have met through my friend circle have no problems texting and driving or drinking then driving. Don't. You fuck.

Then there's the mistake I am personally possibly making and that's not living life a little. Everyone I talk to that's older seems to talk about regrets and how they regret NOT doing things. I use to have so many dreams and wanted to do so much and somehow 3 years later I am still at the bank advising people why they are broke ass bitches. Like I don't know everyone seems to yell in your face DONT FUCKING CHASE A CAREER DONT LIVE WITH REGRET. And man its scary because as I progress down my career path the time frame of me being allowed to do things disappeared but then if I go do that shit I come back where the fuck do i start? From ground zero again?

DON’T move in with “the guy you’re dating” because it’s cheaper/cozier/hey who knows they might be the one. DO move in with the one you’re 💯 sure is the right one and plan to marry in a year-18 months. (Or if neither of you have any desire whatsoever to marry but want to be with forever)

Getting married too early.

Trying to please others at the expense of their current and future self. Wanting to help other is natural, but there is a fine line between helping and a person being codependent on you.

Being afraid to fail. This is the best time of your life to fail.

Thinking that you should have it all figured out.

Marriage

Get charged with a felony

Failing to get out of bad relationships.

Not saving money, spending frivolously by buying stuff they don't need. Credit card debt and drinking while driving.

Video games......

Moving out of your parents house just to say you moved out. Seriously stay as long as you can, and save money

Wasting your time and energy on the wrong people.

These are all great things , but what I'd have to say is just take a step back and don't let everything worry or frighten you . You need to enjoy what time you have here not hating yourself every step of the way.

Smoking too much weed

Getting married

Purchasing a brand new car on credit that is more than 10 percent of your pretax income on the combined cost of car payments and auto insurance.

Using credit as earned income, which usually leads to maxing out of credit cards.

Spending all income and not saving anything.

Consider saving money for items, large and small, and paying for them wish cash. Not only will this save you a lot of money in the long run, it will also reduce your stress because you won't have to carry the world on your shoulders.

Honestly, I am only 20 but from what I'm told it's not investing. I know many people who even in hard times just set aside a small amount of their paycheck to invest. As long as it's saved they have enough to settle with a decent retirement.

While this is not limited to just people in their 20's it is still one of the top 5 rules to live by:

Never (stick your dick in / jam your clam down on) crazy!

If you don't know what a proper crazy is go watch Fatal Attraction.

Don't go to your local sexshop, because you just might run into your dad.This happened today.

Babies before 28

In my opinion, settling down with someone you've only been with for about a year, like the whole getting hitched and having kids shtick is fine but honestly, just wait. Rushing into marriage is fine because the only person it hurts if it goes wrong is you but married and kids hurts the kids when it goes wrong.

Getting in debt just to be able to get credit. Its a scam.

While you're in college, you will be inundated with seemingly magical credit cards that you never requested in the mail. Do not use them. Toss them in the trash. I can't even tell you how many of my friends (in their mid to late 30's now) are still paying off debt from this mistake. It can plummet your credit score as well.

Finishing my 20s in a couple weeks, so a small list from experience

  • Go stupid with credit cards

  • Don't put effort into your job

  • Shitty diet and no exercise

  • Being to shy in regards to meeting people of the opposite sex (or same if that's what you like)

  • Try to save old friendships just because you knew them for so long

I am 22 and I literally can't force myself to keep money saved. Help.

r/financialindependence

Crossing the street before looking both ways.

Not contributing to a Roth IRA

$5,500 invested at 25 years old in a Roth IRA (index funds considering a 10% annual return) is worth $154,563 in 35 years (probably around the time you turn 60). If you max out your Roth IRA contributions while you're in high school/college/early adulthood, you will be soooooo much better off for retirement.

As a rule you need 22 times your income (at your peak income before you retire) in order to get by when you retire. This is just living expenses though, and doesnt count vacations or leisure expenditures.

Its way easier to build this wealth young, due to the magic of compounding interest.

Not traveling. Staying in an unhealthy relationship.

Not wearing a condom

Being 100k+ in debt when graduating college

Not getting credit

Kids

Payday loans. They are evil things.

Two words: Student loans.

Burning bridges. You may think you have every reason to act out (and you might even be right), but it's a small small world out there. Be the better person.

Going to this thread to confirm how I’ve spent my twenties so far

Dating the wrong person.

Assuming that, because you have a good job, you don't need to continue to develop your skills.

I got into tech support in the mid 90s, when it still required computer knowledge and problem solving skills. I was good, I lucked into an easy job, and just stayed there. People told me I should get some accreditations but I was making around $70K a year in the late 90s (equal to around $110k in 2018 dollars) and didn't see the point.

Then the dot com crash happened, the company I worked for got bought out by a Japanese telephone company, and the tech support business became increasingly script driven... You didn't need to know how the computer worked and figure out how to solve problems, you just followed a flowchart that told you what you needed to do next, and occasionally consult a higher level tech when problems fell out of the range of what was covered by the script... And THAT guy only got the job if he had some kind of paper showing he'd studied and had been tested on it.

When I left tech support around 2005, it was call center drone work that paid $10 an hour. I started doing non tech related customer service work, my 10 years of experience talking to customers on the phone was worth more than my tech support skills.

My friends who got certificates and stayed in tech related work are now all project managers and consultants and make way more than me. My best paying job since then was only $37k a year, roughly equivalent to what I made in 95 when I first started doing tech support, if you account for inflation.

Holding yourself & settling for literally anything (job, relationship, living situation) just because it's "comfortable" or "safe". Keep your head up & never stop believing you can do more. I wasted a lot of time telling myself I couldn't have stuff before realizing that nothing matters & you can (& should) do pretty much do what you like as long as you're not fucking with people.

Unprotected sex

Military Star Card.

Not getting their foot in the door with their career path early. We are living in a world with the most faceless yet competitive hiring process.

I'm 23 and about to graduate college with my bachelors. I've been fortunate enough to have had an internship with a government agency for the past year but sadly no job will come of it for now due to a freeze on hiring. For the past 6 months I have done nothing but apply for jobs. It's become a part time job for me. I receive a few emails that weren't bots replying after I applied and I landed a couple interviews. I fortunately have a job for when I graduate but that is only because my brother (who has a high position within a certain city) thankfully put in a good word for me. It's not my ideal job but hey, it's experience that I need and steady pay.

Even when you are a freshman, make contacts, develop professional relationships with people in your potential market, and apply for internships.

Put your damn foot in the door.

I know it doesn't apply for everyone, but IMO getting married. Especially in your early 20's. You don't have a clue who you are at 20. So many things change and your relationships change or solidify or disappear all together. If I got married before I was 30 I seriously would have doubted my judgement.

Not taking care of yourself mentally and physically.

Getting into huge credit card debt. It happens a little at a time. Then, all of a sudden, they’ve got you by the balls and climbing out is way harder than climbing into the hole. Took me a year of serious budgeting just to get out of 2k in cc debt. I live in San Francisco, where the cost of living is very high, so this meant my disposable income is virtually nonexistent.

Getting married

Seriously? Not using sunscreen.

Tanning and overexposure to sunlight without any type of protection can lead to premature aging at best. Skin cancer is a bitch and one of the most preventable forms of cancer. Don’t go risking your life because you don’t like the smell or it’s too inconvenient to put on.

Less serious? Having sex in the champagne room.

But trust me about the sunscreen.

Getting married and creating debt (school loans excepted). Just because you have the money doesn't mean you can afford to spend it.

Getting into a serious relationship with a partner with a high-conflict personality.

Not saving for a rainy day and retirement. Save. Save. Save. Compound interest is an amazing thing, especially when it has decades to do its magic. I’m speaking from experience. You’ll be in your fifties in a blink of an eye. Not having that feeling of security suuuuuuucks.
Save like your life depends on it, because it will.

Stay off anti-depressants if possible. Anti-depressants are over-subscribed. You’re supposed to feel sad, especially in your 20s. Without sadness it’s difficult to fully appreciate happiness.

Obviously some people need anti-depressants, but a lot of people who take them don’t actually need them. Just be cautious.

Look inside yourself to find the root cause of your problems and try to overcome them on your own, or by speaking to someone. But don’t try to brush your problems under the rug and forget about them by using drugs.

Drugs can be fun in moderation, but using them to drown out your sorrow, or to avoid having to face your issues, isn’t a good idea.

Your 20s are a learning curve. At times they can be harrowing. At times they can be revelatory. Don’t be afraid to make mistakes in the pursuance if self-betterment. If you make a mistake, which you definitely will, make sure you learn from it, and grow from it.

Good luck!

Saving up for retirement!

Even if you only put $20 a month away, that compound interest adds up in the later years.

Take it from someone that just started saving and barely has a slim chance to retire before 70

Failing to learn how to cook, meal prep, and monitor daily calories.

Doing drugs, not going to college, and not using protection.

Thinking you’re alive when you’re really asleep in life’s waiting room.

I'm 20 and this thread has me worried.

Not saving. Time is the most powerful force in the universe when it comes to money.

Buying into the bullshit concept that getting an education is a waste of time.

Thinking that anyone cares about your problems

Being afraid of failure.

Spend years of study going many thousands into debt for something that is not employable after graduation.

It will not "just all work out". It will not.

I bought a brand new car at 23 and living in a third world country made me fell like a rich man, boy I was so wrong, it's been five years and I've struggled a lot to pay it because I had unstable jobs and I couldn't afford all the maintenance services either, but hopefully by December will be paid in full so... Don't do that, seriously...

Marriage and children. Taking on mortgage-sized debt. All of these things need to be weighed very carefully. Your 20's should be a time to plan and save. You can marry any time love is not dependant on it. Children are wonderful but they are so much more when you are financially ready for it. Mortgages are a HUGE rip-off. Try to find a way to avoid one and save millions.

Ruining your ability to long-term pair bond.

Its easy to care about the wrong things.

Trying to keep up with Joneses! You’ll realize after you’ve bought that big house & fancy car, it doesn’t make you happier!

Racking up credit card debt. I’m $3000 in and have nothing to show for it

Opening up credit at retails stores(or credit cards same thing) if you can’t afford the clothes then don’t buy them.

Having kids and worrying about the bills later

The contract they make you sign for taekwondo classes.

Do not get into credit card debt.

Drugs and credit cards

Take their youthful skin for granted Getting into skincare early would do wonders

Not taking school seriously before it's too late.

Just because you want something, doesn't mean you deserve it. Live well within your means and pay cash for anything/everything you can. Going into debt for clothes/games/vacations aren't worth it.

Getting arrested for serious shit like DUIs and stealing and shit like that.

Being in love

Exercise. Don't chase a money driven career. Follow your passion and figure out how to monitise it. And be quick with cutting negative people out your life

Everything I'm doing

Pretty common one, and at any age really, but smoking. It's terrible for you and a real bitch to quit. I smoked for 10 years, took me a year of off and on failing to quit for good but 4 years later I still get the urge sometimes.

Have kids

Drugs...Don't' do drugs. Seriously, just don't. I've unfortunately had way too many people in my life just utterly destroyed by drugs.

From a finance standpoint, not thinking about retirement savings starting early. If I had started something straight out of college in my first job, I would be golden by the time I hit 61. Now in my thirties, I might have to work until I'm 72 to catch a break.

Don't focus on making money focus on making memories. Within reason of course.

Using ice.

Not saving enough to quit your shitty job and traveling the world on a shoestring for as long as you can.

I only speak for myself, but it would be presuming the heartaches encountered in life will never catch up with you. They do. They're cumulative. Deal with the difficulties as they happen, don't bury them. Self care is so very important.

Sticking with something because it's "comfortable" or "easy"

That boy/girl you're with but not crazy in love with? Let go. You're going to waste years of your life you can never get back.

The terrible job you have with good co workers and is easy for a decent wage? I mean, if it's the best you CAN do, sure I get it. Don't rustle feathers without moving up. But if you're working in tier 1 tech support but you know you can do better. DO better. Don't stagnate because it's familiar.

Don't have children in your 20s. You get one life to live, and while babies are great and raising them can be it's own joy. You're essentially going to be missing out on SO much of your young years taking care of kids.

Letting yourself get fat/out of shape. Once you lose it, getting back into shape is a REAL bitch. While you're still young, it's SO much easier. Make sure you're doing SOMETHING every other week AT LEAST. Go for a hike. A walk. Lift some weights. I literally don't care what work out you do (except crossfit. Dont fuck your joints up), just stay moving somehow. When you're older, not only will your motivation be lower than ever, but your body will actively hurt.

Pregnancy.

Mindlessly signing student loan papers. That 20 000 loan for your art history degree is something you really need to consider before you show up to a college councillors office

Landing a decent job and wasting fours years doing lots of coke.

Slacking off in college. Do not make that mistake. All the time in the world, and one of my biggest regrets was not finishing my degree. Do not waste it.

If your gut is telling you this is a bad relationship, listen to to your gut. Get outta there. There are plenty of fish in the sea and you're probably not going to end up forever alone

Meaning the things you say... Believing that others do the same.

I've learned that repeatedly.

Picking up an addiction. Smoking, drugs, alcohol, whatever it is... keep it at arms length.

One of the biggest mistakes is thinking you know everything.

Biggest mistake of turning 20?

Turning 30.

Getting a criminal record

Not taking care of your teeth.

Paying too much attention to their phone. I’m typing this after rolling my ankle down some stairs while paying attention to this damn thing.

The thing my parents have always told me is this: Just because you have the money to buy something does not mean you can afford it.

Just cause you can buy a car, you need to look at what money you will have left over, and if you can afford to buy necessities (food rent etc) that week, month, year etc.

All the god damn drinking. Having a social lubricant that makes it easier to drop your egos and open up to people is ONE thing, but you are not immortal!

Using credit cards, getting expensive car loans, and going in debt for stupid things like a vacation or pet.

  1. Not investing in themselves to maximize their earning power.
  2. Not take reasonable risks- forty-year-old risk takers are usually not successful.
  3. Marrying the wrong person.

Not doing all the dumb shit your 20yo brain can think up

Not finding someone to settle down with.

Settling down with the wrong person.

NO PRESSURE THOUGH

I'm a big believer in the biggest mistakes people make usually being the silent ones that linger and manifest in subtle ways over time. These sorts of things have such a wide-range that it'd be impossible to attempt to define for everyone.

The things that don't have a widespread societal understanding. E.g. Drugs, as harmful as they can be, and as detrimental as they can be to someone's life, are mostly recognized as such by society...Things like eating disorders, technology addiction, etc. are things that aren't as commonly empathized with, or viewed as being as potentially as harmful as drugs... But honestly, come 50 years from now, I think the general societal mindset towards these things (and many other less commonly know about issues) will change.

Credit card debt. Don't fall for that.

A drunken crime.. criminal records will come back to haunt you.

Leaving a great union job without having a back up plan , yes I'm the idiot that done so

Having kids without being in a stable relationship... dont do this.

Motorcycle accident and a 6th floor window leap is what I survived. Okay technically I turned 20 in the hospital while recovering the second one.

Not traveling enough before you have kids.

Thinking you have to do everything. Plan for the future. The future that you want. Not the future that someone else wants for you. But damn it, live your life.

Procrastination, i don't mean when you sidetrack from assessments or studying, but from things that don't have a due date.

  • Spending money on stupid things
  • Getting married too soon
  • Having kids too son
  • Not contributing to your 401K
  • Buying a house that's too big
  • Buying a new car instead of used
  • Not paying down college debt
  • Drinking too much

Getting pregnant. Nothing makes you poorer faster than having a child before you're ready. It sabotages your life at a time when you need to be free to advance. It's one thing to work around someone who has years and years of references and experience in their industry, no one wants to extend that to someone just starting out with little to no record. You don't even know who you are yet and now you're in charge of raising a whole other human being.

That's rather silly.

Yes it's going to cost money to raise a kid, duh. However it's not good for people to devote their whole life to constant work (and maybe overwork). This idea that you need to be some kind of maximal super worker early on is load of BS we need to get rid of as a society. We're people, not machines.

Tangentially, waiting to have kids until you're 40 plus is probably a scientifically bad idea.

The real mistake isn't having the kid or raising one, it's doing so more by accident than plan. And possibly having more than one in short succession. There are plenty of illuminating life stories out there...

Looking forward to their 30s

Fucking up on social media. It’s a powerful thing and can make or break someone.

Being constantly worried about something and not talking to someone about it. It bubbles up and can give you lot of health problems. anxiety can give you disease after disease.

Save money, and once you have spend some of it as a reward

Not brushing your teeth. Maintenance for periodontal disease will eat up your savings.

Bittttconnnecct

Not putting enough towards retirement those deposits into your 401k in your 20s grow a ton over those 40-50 years

Edit: also no one outsmarts the market, some just get lucky a few times in a row. Put your money in S&P index funds with super low fees like .05%. You can’t control how the market goes but you can control the fees so make those as low as possible, don’t pay some guy 1% to hopefully get lucky and outperform the S&P for you but probably underperform. Also diversity but not with stocks, buy an index fund in India, the US, African countries, South America, etc.

Not saving up for the future

Breathe through your nose and your nose only.

I think it would be not caring or thinking about the future. I remember having a tendency of living in the moment. I now know they call this the "indestructible" phase of life. You're young, you're free, you still have very little responsibility if any at all and you just want to live. You think you can always make time in the future for more "adult" matters. The sooner you start making preparations for the rest of your life the better off you will be. You learn eventually only trust fund kids get to be indestructible forever.

Kidding themselves that they're the exception to the rule and will never get old.

Almost electrocuted myself cutting a cable, power was off to a section of cable, alive.

Driving drunk?

For me it was: dui, binge drinking, and not fully concentrating, and starting my degree late. I'm super good now, but it could have been allot better by now, that is my story though.

Cocaine is a lot of money that you probably shouldn't be spending.

Credit cards, marriage, then having a kid to fix that failing marriage.

Murder

Getting arrested is a big fuck up

Not work hard and be lazy

not purchasing crypto-currencies right now, or earlier

Having children too young

drugs

going to go college for a human services/psychology degree, toilet paper is more useful

Piling up credit card debt.

Do NOT get a DWI. This is especially important during your 20's if only because this is the decade of your life where you're building towards your career.

Speaking from experience, don't fucking drink and drive because eventually you WILL get caught.

Getting married fast. I’ve heard of dudes meeting a stripper Saturday night and tying the knot Monday. Heard of dudes getting married and divorced 4 times in 4 years. Dudes get married because they get out of the barracks and get a housing allowance, but either they or their spouse (or both) cheat and their shit gets fucked up.

Often, getting married is a big one. For most folks, you're a different person at the end of your 20s. Your partner may be different and incompatible too.

Getting into a long term relationship

Getting married TBH...

Don't have kids, don't get married, don't have debt, save money!

Spending too much money on things you don’t need. I guess hat would be any age but I’m constantly amazed at how many kids just out of high school in my town are driving brand new vehicles.

Get married to "fix" a relationship that has soured.

Have kids without trying to plan for them.

Subjugation of their own wants and needs to make another person's happiness their focus. (Seriously, accomplish some things you want to do in life. Things get messy and you will end up losing more time than you think.)

Don't get enough sleep. Don't to this, you will regret it.

Assuming your non-practical major in college will get you an awesome job. If you want to major in the sociological impact of ceremonial thoughts about basket weaving that's fine, but maybe take some classes in a practical skill so you can find a decently paying job if you need it.

Working too hard / being too responsible. The fun you can have in your 20s is way more fun than the fun you’re working toward.

Not realizing that where they are in 5, 10, 20+ years is directly related to the decisions they make.

To not get a job. Grow up as early as you can and start working.

Going to a for-profit school.

Listen, with some of them shutting down and all the hate these schools get, it should be obvious. But please, just don't even consider it. There is no situation where a for-profit school is better than just about any alternative.

As someone now saddled with nearly $90k in debt getting a BS degree from a school that doesn't exist anymore, I'd give anything to go back in time and stop myself from being pressured by my parents to "just go get a degree, the jobs will follow."

Credit cards period!!!

Marry.

Mess up or not build their credit

Don't be a dummy, cum on her tummy.

Likes and shares are thoughts and prayers.

If you're politically active and want change, you need to go out to rallies and protests, you need to call your congress representatives and write letters, you need to start things that cannot be ignored.

Don’t wear your college hoodies in public. No one likes that. No one thinks it’s cool. It screams I STILL BELONG IN COLLEGE

Bitter you didn’t get into college my dude?

What dumb fuck doesn’t go to college? I’m able to pass on that wisdom because in retrospect I along with all college students looked like douches

Have children just because. There's a huge amount of social pressure to have kids and a lot of people do it out of a misplaced feeling of obligation. They think it's what they're supposed to do. Having kids is not for everybody, it's for a specific type of person and you should figure out whether you're that type of person or not before having any. I know I'm not because I taught kids for many years and couldn't imagine being at the mercy of one or two of them 24/7.

Not only do you have to be a specific type of person, you have to like kids enough to take a major lifestyle hit to support them as they grow up. You won't have a life until they're in high school. No hobbies, no friends, no travel, no nothing, you live for them.

Missing your court date because you are scared of the consequences.

Addiction.

I'm turning 20 next year and reading this is making me anxious

Driving drunk, recklessly, or tired.

Columbia House... Wait, that was the 90s

A common way many young people are racking up debt is through phone plans.

Spending all your money on bullshit you won't remember or care about when you're 35. I'm guessing this goes for when I'm 45, 55, and 65 as well but I'll always appreciate the reminder.

Playing Dokkan Battle

Joining the military. There's a reason the suicide rate is so high.

Taking a drunk nap in the snow bank.

Commit a felony. Work in court system and the amount of people that are 18 to 30 come in is INSANE.

BOOM! Now you have a felony conviction that will stay with you FOR LIFE! Getting a good job, decent place to live, etc gets so much harder. Not to mention the fines, penalties and fees imposed once sentenced- and us millenials don't have any throw away income (for the most part).

Keep your nose clean. It's not worth it.

getting married too young

sharing too much info on social media. being too active on social media. not realizing the possible future ramifications of too much info and being too active on social media.

my nephew is going to find out the hard way...

Thinking they are special. Look, there's 7.6 billion of us. And youth is a time when we thinkk we are special and that we are owed something simply by being "here." As you age, you realize you are not special; your needs/wants/feelings are not more important than anyone else's... Life becomes a little easier once you figure that out bc a lot of youth is wasted on this.

Have kids

Credit cards.

spending time smoking weed instead of trying to become CEO of a fortune 500 company

Wasting time in obviously dead-end relationships.

Getting into debt, especially consumer debt. Just don’t. Save up for purchases and put what you would otherwise be spending on interest into an investment of some kind (Roth IRA, mutual fund, stocks).

Getting a credit card.

Pay your credits cards. They will f*** your life for their money.

Not maxing out my 401k.

Having kids

Thinking that now that you’re done with school and out of the house means your decisions are solid adult decisions. It’s not until your mid thirties that you’ll even have a clue about who you really are and how much growing up you still have to do.

Forcing a relationship to work, life is short to stay with the wrong person.

get married and have children.

Not properly educating themselves of the debt-to-asset ratio when it comes to things financially. Otherwise, if you don't live within your means, then you're bound to accumulate tons of debt.

Save your money and don’t do what all your friends in your same pay range are doing. Avoid the fancy cara and houses and fancy weddings and all that bullshit. Live simple. Do rewarding things. Take care of your body.

Taking a break. It's hard to get started again. Instead, keep pushing to build your career and life goals.

Getting into useless debt. Do this and look at setting your life back a few years.

The biggest mistake is to not invest your money (if you have any) into something substantial. Well, apart from taking drugs, murdering people, getting HIV from unprotected sex and so on.

Trying to live outside their means. Don’t try to follow what others are doing and do what you can afford and enjoy it. To many people try to live this fabulous instagram life and can’t afford it. They fake it until it’s way to late.

I know this will get lose in the comments but. I have an uncle, he had 2 children with his spouse, then he get divorced and have another woman, and then he had another and lived 11 years, he made a house, a stable business (hard to do in my country), he said that for week he had 60k (of uruguayan pesos) of leftovers, he made a business for his girl too, he getted divorced and had to sell the house, his business got into bankrupt, he had another girl and another. And now he is deliverying pizzas.

Thinking they are not good enough!

Marriage

Moving in together with no plans to get married.

Start thinking about retirement. You don't want to work for ever after all.

Going into debt.

Spending a decade trying to be someone else’s version of who you should be rather than becoming who you know you want to be.

Tried doing that and got booted 3.5y hence.

Not voting.

Credit cards

Not putting 10% of their paycheck in a savings account. If I would have started saving 10% of my income in my 20s I would have like $1000. Hahaha, just kidding, I’d have a whole lot more. Probably enough for a down payment on a home

Any sort of debt, gambling and unhealthy eating habits. learn to control drug use and excessive drinking and how to live below your means. IF YOU CANT AFFORD IT YOU DONT DESERVE IT

Don’t be afraid to try new things. Don’t be so risk averse that you don’t experience things you want to try because reasons.

Getting into debt. Credit cards and loans are easy to get yourself into debt and missing a payment will be on your credit score for 7 years. My husband in his 30's and is still trying to fix his personal debt from credit card and loan payments he missed.

My tips, never take out a loan you can't pay more to each month to get it played off faster. And for credit cards use it like a debit card, once the transaction clears on your card account pay it off. And keep your balance below 30% at time bill comes around.

Predatory loans

Not saving

Drugs

Not planting trees.

Investing a lot into something that won't yield a profit. The biggest example is getting an expensive car. Get yourself a duplex and rent half or a multi bedroom and get roommates.

Getting a credit card, just don't and learn to save every week.

Take it from me, doing drugs on a regular basis to the point of getting addicted.

Pay your student loans! They will garnish your wages... 15% seems small but is absolutely crushing. Not to mention your wages will be garnished at least 5 months before you’ve made enough separate monthly payments on top of the garnishment to satisfy the rehabilitation of the loan. It was essentially the worst 6 months if my life. Did they care I was a single mom, no child support and no extra income? Did they care that the garnishment put me almost negative amounts every week I got paid after bills? Nope. Don’t be dumb like me.

That 50 is far far away

not retiring first, then doing what you love in your 40's.

learn how to manage money

Staying in a dead end job that they don’t enjoy. Life is too short to get stuck.

I'll speak from personal experience:

  • Getting hammered too much
  • Not practising healthy habits
  • Jumping into university programs too quick
  • Spending too much money on recreational drugs
  • Not spending more time with your grandparents

Not saving money when I had little to no responsibilities. I'll be 29 this year and in my early 20s I had a decent amount of disposable income. I just spent and spent on stupid stuff thinking "it's just money!" I regret spending my money on things rather than experiences, which don't get me wrong I did plenty of that too, it was just more of the dumb shit. Had I thought of my future then, I would be sitting on well over 15k by now in savings. My girlfriend can't work due to health reasons and I make good money where I work so I keep us afloat and able to put some back as well, it's just agitating looking back on how much I pretty much just threw away when I was younger.

Going to college in the US.

Failing to save money, drinking too much, bad engagements/marriages. Dodge those, and your 30s should be ok.

If you are thiking about joining any branch of the military, better to do it asap under the minimum time required (in case you don't like it) to get free college when you get out. Possible you may enjoy it too, do your 20 years and retire before 40. I personally waited till about 21 then did 5 years and since starting a family can't sqeeze college in.

Debt

Getting married

They don’t take steps to advance their career or meet an SO.

Not saving for retirement. It's hard to pay yourself first, but it will be worth it in 40 years and you're sitting on a multi-million dollar nest egg.

I know I’m a little late to this thread.... I’m in my 20’s and something I’ve noticed amongst the newer generation is a lot of my friends don’t realize their individual capabilities. There’s this stereotype that 20 year olds think their special even though they’re one in an ever growing 7 billion. I’m not saying that isn’t true, it is.

However, there’s this newer generation that is growing that thinks that to be special they have to fit a certain mold. Most people my age chase what they think a “special” person would do, meanwhile hating themselves because they may not like or desire that lifestyle. People end up in debt, in a relationship that was too long, with no healthy eating/exercising habits, no sense of how to clean up after themselves because they mimic the lifestyle “special” people they look up to (I.e. similarly aged celebrities/youtubers).

They don’t realize said “special” people recognized their unique talents and worked with them. There is a lot less of people thinking their “special” and more doing what a special person would do so they can become special. Meanwhile they aren’t developing their interests, ignoring potential hobbies, have no niche interests that they’re passionate about and when they start to get older they begin to get confused (why haven’t I been successful yet??). They’ve done all the right steps but not the right steps for them. It’s hard to watch. I wish my friends would stop being angry with themselves for not being their ideal of special and look inward to realize their strengths, the things that actual may make them special. It’s actually kind of ironic.

Edit: Anyway, maybe I’m wrong. I am in my 20’s and we do make misjudgments (as accurately illustrated in this thread) :).

Start drinking alcohol=ruined life for many

Not learning how to not live pay check to paycheck or put into retirement

Lots... Staying with a job too long. Getting married. Getting engaged. Focus on yourself, and bettering yourself... it'll transfer on to other people around you. It's easy to be complacent and fall in to routine. You're so fucking young, god I wish I was still in my 20s... I miss it!

Be careful with credit cards. Don't use them as cash. Everyone tells you this, but really: just don't fucking use them unless absolutely necessary.

Even though you are young, at least put SOMETHING into your 401k early. You'll thank yourself when you hit 40.

Whatever you do, take care of your shoes.

I'm turning 30 in a few months, well my mistakes are

-Expecting life to be fair I expected justice to come to me as a victim of bullying. I learned recently that doesn't exist. Karma is only in cartoons, not in reality and bullies stay the same their entire lives. Suffering doesn't magically end when adulthood begins. Suffering just is. On that note...

-Watching too many cartoons/anime/games I crapped away an entire decade of my life this way. I hated people and the outside world too much. I had too many mental illnesses. I was too scared. How much easier my life could have been if I had stopped dissociation and agoraphobia instead of adopting it as a lifestyle.

-Believing my parents, trusting authority figures They did not have my best interest. They lied nonstop. They forbade me from getting a job, having a car, having possessions, moving out, taking psych meds, they told me how to dress, what career to have...I obeyed their every whim until I was 27...so much of my life wasted. So many skills unlearned. They told me I was supposed to 'take care of them' as my life's purpose. I wasn't living, I was existing and waiting to die. I'd have told myself to run away from home at 18. Sure I'd be surviving on a minimum wage job and living on my own in an alien world but its better to do that at 18 then 28.

Always keep yourself available on the job market.

I'm 27 and I've learned that the majority of large employers don't give two shits about me. Even in a company that had great benefits and overall values, HR showed their true colors from time to time in the way they handled myself and my coworkers.

Settling. Don’t settle. Don’t settle for mediocre.

Enjoy it. 30 is way close to middle age than I thought.

Don't put it on a credit card unless you have the money to instantly pay it off. Trust me, it will start adding up and you will get into a spot where you're stressing about whether or not you'll be able to pay it off.

Being careless with money. Save that shit kids you will appreciate later in life. Putting a little away here and there may not seem like a lot at the time but over the course of 30 to 40 years it could mean the difference between retiring at 50 or 70. Be smart with your money!!!!

Going to college to buy a "degree"

Taking your credit for granted.

Getting married

live in the moment not the future or past

  1. Not saving money
  2. Not taking care of your teeth and your health.

Having kids before you get your own shit together. It's a situation that you may never fully recover from when it comes to your education, career, financial well being, growing into a proper adult and finding your way as a person.

Smoking pot

Not starting their retirement fund. If money is treated with the out of sight out of mind mentality, even a little bit a month can make a great start.

Not putting money into retirement investments and accounts. Seriously missing a few years of saving doesn't sound like much but compound interest can make you tons of money in the long run. Missing out a few years can make the difference in being able to retire by the age of 60 instead of 70.

I think you are misunderstanding the law. Beleive what you want, but to any one in the military reading this, no you don't get 6 percent or better on loans for simply being in the military

I am a 30-something

Not spending time with your family because you're "too busy/too tired with work" or "too busy with friends." I've done the former and my older sister did the latter. Now that my parents, especially my mom, is getting older and is starting to tell us stories of growing up or just how she's feeling, I wonder why was so busy/tired. Sometimes I feel like there's not enough time to get to know them better.

Getting a criminal record and racking up Student Loans. Avoid those two things, and life will be golden.

Catching a charge.

Honestly... Early marriage. Dont be eager to do so... Rethink your life choices

Not putting away money into a retirement account

Pissing away money, especially money you don't have yet. It's way too easy to get in debt. My parents were/ are terrible with money and I seem to have carried that. I'd like to think I've learned my lesson but only time will tell.

Taking out thousands of dollars in loans to go to university in America.

Not saving enough for retirement. Compounding interest is incredible.

Probably the biggest mistake was becoming self-sufficient through never forgiving myself. Nobody wants to be around that rigor.

Build positive relationships now, it seems to get harder over time.

Listen to your gut. The fact that you asked this question shows that you are doing fine.

Getting carried away with drugs and alcohol. Especially alcohol. You don't realize that people don't become addicted and physically dependent by choice...it happens by accident, from repeated exposure, again and again. And when it catches you, it's often too late. It will kill you, destroy your life, your family, and your future, if you don't get your shit together. Be honest with yourself about your drinking habits, your reasons for drinking, your dependency on alcohol, and your physical health. That's all PSA concluded thank you.

Not starting a 401k or 403b retirement savings with their employer. Starting in your 20s can make all the difference at retirement especially since it is likely social security will run out when a majority of the baby boomers retire here shortly.

Trying to find your passion. Just work.

Racking up credit card debt.

Not taking the time to travel.

Smoking cigarettes.

New car

The biggest mistake is spending your money. Take it from me... Please save your money!!!!!!

20-somethings graduate from college/university and get a REAL life job and you start making mad fliff, but you still have that child's brain that says, "the world is huge and i have nothing, so like pokemon, i gotta catch em all" and you start spending money. You start collecting bullshit that you will hate in your 30s. And you'll get to your 30s wanting all the things that matter, that you shoulda been saving for, and you'll hate yourself for spinning your wheels in the mud during your 20s like that and wasting your money.

Pay off your debts, and then save. Dont spend a fucking thing.

It's like planting a tree: the best time to do it is 50 years ago. Things just get more expensive, and you will need to have saved up money from the start.

Letting your drinking behavior go without scrutiny.

If you can go to Dominican Republic or Thailand you can certainly put money away for retirement.

The earlier the better, a few dollars per week automatically and you'll never miss it. But 40 or 50 years later you'll be glad you did.

Putting yourself in debt to look cool. Be practical and save on future heart ache.

stop spending money. seriously...if you find yourself buying shit like expensive shoes, tvs, expensive clothing, etc.. or anything that you are getting a loan for (even 0% for 6 months) you are being stupid.

Don't be in your 30's like myself still trying to get debt free. Luckily I didn't have student loan debt which is the killer for many people that takes a long ass time to pay off, but if you have any form of significant debt, you should be doing everything in your power to pay it off..not just accept you have some debt because the minimum payments and the additional $30 in interest each month 'aren't that bad'.

In your 20's you have time to completely set forth a path for a successful retirement..in your 30's you still do..in your 40's you are losing time and you won't have as much..50's it's getting tight...60's you are fucked.

I’m twenty four and my biggest mistake so far was not investing when I first got started working

Not investing in any manner.

Worrying about mistakes. You're going to make them, might as well do it in the first decade of adulthood rather than the second, or third, or fourth...

Not correcting your posture. Correct your posture.

Don't get addicted to a substance. It happened to me and a lot of my friends. It sets you back years, assuming you survive

More directed towards early 20s but don't get married. I'm 28 and happily married, but I can't imagine my early 20s as a married man. Hell, take it a step further and don't get in a long term relationship. I had a few girlfriends, but nothing lasted more than a year. Expect to have a bad break up. You're still learning about yourself and about life in general. It's hard enough to worry about yourself, much less somebody else's needs. Have fun and be young. Make mistakes, but don't be stupid. Have one night stands and just fuck around. Literally. Be a white and just male yourself happy. If you're happily married in your early 20s, great! But you're missing out on all the fun shit being young has to offer.

I'm going to go a bit against the grain and say - forgetting to live your life. Saving is great, but at the end of the day, you only live once so you might as well enjoy it. There have been times where I've considered buying something, or going somewhere, or doing something, but then decided against it because it wouldn't have made sense financially or otherwise.

Of course, don't go overboard, especially if you're not financially stable, but you're still young. Make mistakes, enjoy life, do (slightly) stupid things, and make memories. If I could do it over, I would use all my vacation days, I would travel to countries for no reason, and I would cement the friendships and relationships that really matter.

Going to college when you aren't ready to commit yourself to education or going only because your parents want you to but you are not passionate about any particular field.

Not investing in a 401k if available or some kind of IRA

Loose The time and The life opportunities while you're with The wrong person.

Not going to the dr

Getting a credit card

Getting fixated on crushes. There are billions of people on this earth . Life is too short to wait for someone to come around who won't.

Buying a condo. You will have a painful time selling it when you want to start a family and move to a house. Just rent and save $$ until you have a nice chunk for a down payment. Another option is to rent from someone who cant sell their condo. Probably get a great deal on rent.

The only new car you should buy, should be one that you can pay for with cash. Preferably at least 2 years old, and even then only if you can afford all four of Payament, Insurance, Gas & Maintence.

Drink driving

Not starting 401K contributions

Living a lifestyle and not a life. Lifestyles are expensive, irresponsible and generally done to impress others. Looking back you'll realize it's all a waste of time.

Its fine to go out and drink once in a while... But when it becomes an every-other-day bender, quit. Your heart, by your 30s, will thank you. So will your teeth, skin, personal relationships, and liver.

I was a lifeguard from when I was 16-21 (I'm 25 now). One good piece of advice was from a guy I worked with in his 30's who did it as his summer job (he was a teacher in the off-season). He told me that you sometimes need to stop and think, "What am I getting out of this?"

Like, what are you actually gaining from dumping money at the same bar every weekend or going to same parties with the same people all the time?

If you have a bill, pay it. Do not let debt rack up and then default. That car you want? That apartment/house/condo you want to live in? Forget about them, defaulting is brutal to your credit. Please, pay your bills.

Not taking the once in a lifetime opportunity when you had the chance.

Pee Tape

Getting married/Having children with the wrong person

If you haven't been to uni - go now. Even if you don't intend on studying, take a year off and pull out of all your classes so you don't have to pay. Just go make friends with the drama crowd and get laid more than you ever will for the rest of your life. And don't be too picky, you'll be amazed at how fond of those memories you'll be in 20 years.

Not Starting up a retirement plan of some kind be it 401 or a Roth

Was just a small issue for me but for others could be tough. I never got a credit card until I was 26. Always just paid cash or debit. Went to finance a motorcycle (for credit building reasons) and could barely do so because I had 0 credit history. Paying off student loans counts for next to nothing in credit score/history.

8 months later after getting a secured card and financing my bike, my credit score shot up over 80 points.

The concept and tracking of credit is still stupid, but you gotta deal with it so get ahead. Also subscribe to r/personalfinance

Not keeping contact with old friends. Eventually you'll just stop talking. Forrreevvvverrrrrr. Forrreevverrrrrrr foreevvveeerrrrr

Thinking its "too late" or you're "too old now."

I'm only early 30s, and I can already see changes that I could have easily made when I was younger. It is, honestly, never too late. However, 20s is kind of the ideal time to make a change or take a risk. The rest of this thread not withstanding, of course.

Not getting their retirement plan going.

Using a credit card for food, gas, and bills

Not taking the chance to do something risky but with the potential to be rewarding (business adventures, etc.). There likely will never be as good a time after you have relationships and family to think of.

Give a fuck about money, but don't let it come between friends and family

Dying

Thinking that they can do lots of drugs and go to parties/festivals and think they'll never regret it.

Building up debt without building good credit. That shit will fuck you well into your 40's

Smoking, but that's at any age

start drinking hard thinking you'll just stop

Here’s two easy ones: Getting into too much credit card debt. Working at a job that doesn’t have a 401k and/or not contributing to it

Pay.day.loans.

Thinking that you are immortal...I know it isn't literal, but what you do today reaps your tomorrow, you are creating your own future. Drugs, overeaating, not working out.....it does eventually catch up.

Staying in bad situations/relationships for to long. Whether it's work, relationship, friends, family, SO. If its bad just leave or distance yourself as best you can. Its usually not worth the mental strain and the time.

Partying too much and Caring about assholes.

Not building credit.

Now, I don’t mean being an asshole and bot paying your bills, I mean having a real credit card with a real limit as opposed to a savings secured card with a very small limit.

Learned this one the hard way...

I ended up my 20s, 150k in debt and 85 pounds overweight with a major drinking problem. Been working my way out for the last 6 years. By 40 I will be debt free and I am down 40 pounds. Turns out I an paying for my 20s with my 30s.

The biggest and most expensive mistake you can make in your 20s is pissing around with finances and making a poor decision, like getting a DUI (muy expensive). You pretty much castrate yourself financially for instant gratification instead of planning for your retirement. Get a Roth and a growth stock mutual fund. Work your fucking ass off while you have the energy to do it. Learn how to balance a budget and retire a millionaire (literally any American can do this). Read a Dave Ramsey book on finances and no “chasing the dragon”. Say “No” a lot. And to quote the HodgeTwins “DO WHATEVER THE FUCK YOU WANT TO DO”.

Honestly, for some, it's simply going to college.

Thinking drinking every day is ok. Stop that shit now. Also, invest in your 401k.

Not using a condom, buckle in your peeper kids

Heroin. Don't do it.

Not tell their parents they dropped out of school

Thinking that college is the only way to succeed in life.

Accumulating credit card debt on things you want, but don't need.

Not exercising. Not making a point to have fun.

Being in my twenties myself, developing a habit of binge drinking or using alcohol to cope, especially if you’re in college. I’ve seen so many people take a nosedive due to this. I myself had issues with this awhile back and man, it can screw so much up. The best thing to do if you feel like you’re going down that path is to get help before it’s out of control

Committing to a person they don't really like that much that also happens to be abusive or manipulative.

Messing up your credit!!! Buy a house! Dont get credit cards or fancy cars. Buy a modest starter home and build ur credit

Big ol' vehicle loan

Live

r/studentloans

Marriage apparently. Mostly settling for less than you deserve and placing all bets on that pony.

Thinking they can party and hang out without serious career development. If you get behind in your 20s, you are going to be behind forever.

Not listening to what your boss tells you about your weaknesses. This is the time to accept criticism and overcome it

All the fun stuff. Make babies, break the law and think for themselves.

Wasting time on distractions that don't bring a benefit to your life.

Commit suicide, it may seem like your only option right now, but there is so much more in life ahead of you.

I you run with dogs, you will get fleas

A bit late but, not making mistakes. It’s your time for trial and error, learn from your mistakes to make a greater future of yourself.

I say not be focused enough on yourself and your own development! Go to school and get a good degree or achieve a serious goal to help you grow! If you half ass it and have to go back to school in your 30’s it’s way more difficult!

Getting preggers by a douchebag. Its hard for young ladies to resist douchebags.

Running up credit card debt.

Pay yourself first; mentally, physically, and financially.

Not keeping their relationship private.

Do not buy a new car. Being able to afford a car doesn't mean being able to make the payments. It means maintinance, it means repairs, it means insurance, it means gas, for fucks sake, just buy a reliable, USED car, if possible, get something you can afford in cash, not having a car payment will seriously free up your financial situation

Debt

A big mistake might be to focus on fear and hate over love and hope.

Marrying someone they haven't known for all four seasons.

Going into debt, drinking too much (alcoholism), hard drugs, not saving, not learning a useful skill that they can parlay into a career, not learning to improve their social skills, not learning how to be responsible/take responsibility

Getting married to the wrong person. Just because you haven't broken up through college doesn't mean you'll be a good fit in the real world now that you are both adults.

€ or $ ? Btw old are you and when did you “start” stashing , what kinda sort of job u did ? :p

My self i sit at 0k stashed atm but i have a 30/45k € invesment in place i work food related 24 y/o

Not plan for your future or pretend like being young will last forever.

Let go off healthy habits and hence your body. Trying to recover that in the 30s is so much harder.

Getting a DUI.

Develop skills outside of your career. Work is not fucking life!!! Wanna learn to play the drums? Go and do it before you're married. Paint, draw, photography ? Do it before you have kids and a wife and s crippling job. Woodworking, blacksmithing, glass blowing? Learning to play the banjo, learning how to knit. There is SO MUCH more you're capable of than you know at that age and all it takes is a little effort, a little failure, and time. but in the end you have an amazing skill. A passion that can even take you places or even be a fallback in hard times. It can be the thing you look forward to when you get home from work and to do on the weekends instead of binge watching Netflix and falling asleep with your hand in a chip bag watching the clock run out on your life.

partying, drinking, doing drugs, and being promiscuous through their twenties

Having a child with the wrong person and then marrying that man/woman just because of that

Thinking they will always have time later. Do it now not later.

Suicide.

Peer pressure- Compromising your personal values to fit in at work to climb the social ladder

Not being happy because they rely on others or things that don't matter to make them happy. Only you can make you happy.

I had a few friends who thought it was just hilarious to get obliterated drunk and drive around. I lost one from a motorcycle accident, 2 others in a car after hitting a tree. After that I decided to quit drinking any alcohol. I didn’t have a problem, but that stuff just scared me. Been sober for 7 years now.

But the main point, the early to mid 20’s you feel like Olympic absolutely have to have the most fun possible, so you make a huge mistake by going all out. Cause when you hit 30. You realize the fun you have now, is way better than back then.

Get some sleep. Treat it as a vital nutrient, and keep a consistent sleep schedule as much as possible. There will be unavoidable nights where you loose sleep for various reasons. But don't neglect your body's need to rest.

A disciplined sleep schedule is necessary for optimal mental and physical health.

Not untangling all the knots your imperfect parents created while raising you less-than-perfectly.

Your 20s are all about becoming your own person. A good part of that is realizing, “Oh...I have boundary issues because my mom always needed to know where I was constantly,” or “Oh...I pick on my significant other because that’s how my parents treated each other growing up.”

The way I look at it, you’ve got 10 years to wake up to as much of that shit as possible and take ownership of it. Anything you haven’t managed to take responsibility for by the time you’re 30, chances are you’re probably never going to change. It’s either ingrained too deeply or you’re too set in your ways. Sure, everyone’s capable of growth their entire lives, but I think your 20s is a “Goldilocks” time period where you’re old enough to realize you’re a dipshit, but young enough that you still have plenty of time to figure your shit out, fuck up royally a few times, and still stick the landing.

Think that they're going to feel that good when they're 40.

I'm way too scared to read this thread thinking I might have one of the flaws people are pointing out. Soo I guess, trying to pretend everything is going swimmingly when it's not

Credit card debt

Getting trapped in a job because they afforded you this "opportunity", then being afraid to leave because you're comfortable and afraid you won't be any good elsewhere.

Thinking who are now, is who you are going to be your entire life.

Life changes drastically from 20-30

Not dealing with mental health problems. Many people were told as teens it was just a phase, then it their 20s are encouraged to "experiment" with drugs and alcohol, which can trun very quickly into a coping mechanism, then by the time you hit 30 you have a substance problem on top of a mental health issue. If you don't think something is right, get it checked out now.

Don't wait. Don't self medicate.

I didn't realize how important credit was. I screwed around and messed up my credit. All good now, but damn, it took some work to get it where it needed to be .

Theft or drug convictions.

Drug convictions can be used to preclude you from financial aid (education) and various public assistance programs such as housing and food stamps. If you've committed a "drug crime" the federal government is apt to turn its back on you.

Regarding theft, it destroys your credibility with employers. There's a law that a potential employer can't discriminate based on criminal background... unless it's a conviction which could be relevant to the nature of work you'd be doing. Theft in your legal history is ALWAYS RELEVANT because as an employee you're ALWAYS in a position to "steal" from an employer (time theft, at the minimum).

If you've been convicted of both felony theft and drug offenses... you'd better be cool with a shitty job, be a celebrity, have some kind of spectacular artistic skill, or not give a shit about "the American dream" because you're in a situation where the system is stacked heavily against you.

Don't be me. I'm 25, miserable, have no idea what I want t guyo do with my life, socially isolated for 3 yers after a breakup with my child's mother.

I just feel like I'm the complete opposite of everyone else my age.

Work! Work experience! Everyone I know has such awesome skills - drove a tractor-big rig-airplane, worked abnormal jobs, rancher, boater,logger. Worked doing a little bit of everything. Right now I'm raising two little boys so I can't pull crazy hours in the prime of youth(26). Look in craigslist, job ads, temp agencies.. There's so many random jobs out there

Having a baby before they're ready.

Make sure you're financially ready, gals.

Hang around people they know in their heart they shouldn’t be. Toxic people will drag you down.

Having too many children...maxing out credit cards...taking out more student loans than you will be able to afford....getting married and having kids before experiencing life.

Not starting the retirement plan.

So I’m 24 and have been using an investing app for 4 years. I put about 50 dollars a month towards stocks that pay dividens. I do this because I don’t save my money and look at the investing as an alternative. I plan on selling everything once I hit 10k for an IRA. I’m currently at 1400 in assets

Having a kid...

Not saving for retirement soon enough. The sooner you get money invested, the more it will work for you. The later you start, the harder it is to get 'caught up'.

Holding out on your dreams for a S/O that you probably won’t spend the rest of your life with anyway

Dating a teenager. Unless your are under 22 and they are over eighteen it's probably a mistake.

Gettijg in debt (primarily by choosing to go to college), is the biggest mistake I've met.

Have kids in general imo

Playing it safe and not making mistakes

Not getting a good higher education. Seriously you will be dead in the water as far as career advancement without at least a Bachelors.

These might be more extra credit: 1. Master a second language. 2. Learn to play a musical instrument. 3. Read books. Real books. They don’t all have to be Penguin Classics (and don’t torture yourself with a classic you don’t want to read.) There’s just no substitute. Sure there are the practical benefits of communication skills and empathy, but your inner life is just so much better for it.

The most interesting people you’ll ever meet are dedicated readers.

Chasing a relationship as the solution to all your problems when you should be chasing your dreams

Take your credit seriously for the future. Buying cars, homes etc

Not caring about your credit score

Buying a brand new car just because you barely have enough to make a minimum payment

Not taking care of your teeth/gums at an early age can really prevent a lot

Surround yourself with the people who have a positive impact on your life, or people you can learn from. Don't be afraid to spend less time with the people you are comfortable with when you don't have the same goals or interests.

Don't be afraid to try new things! This goes for anyone but especially on your teens and twenties. You never know until you try. (Except drugs, you can leave out drugs)

Failing to continue your education. Just because you're no longer in school doesn't mean that learning stops. This doesn't have to be anything formal or costly, but you should always be making an effort to keep current in your chosen career field.

Read books that advocate for topics you don't agree with, think crititically, and don't be afraid to change your opinion when presented with new evidence.

Moving in with a girlfriend/boyfriend and then breaking up.

From personal experience. Not as bad as getting married and divorced but still a huge hassle to deal with. If I ever move in with a significant other again I will be much more confident that the relationship will work out.

Committing murder

impregnating a woman and regretting it for the rest of your life

Losing contact with friends and failing to make new friendships.

Dating / Partying on credit card. Getting out of that hole can take a long long time.

Fuck, I made like 14 out of the first 15 "mistakes to avoid in my 20s" listed in this thread.
No wonder my body's falling apart at only 49...
I never did succumb to the "taking heroin" mistake, though: things could've definitely been worse had I made that mistake as well.

(Anyways, this thread is just doing wonders for my self-esteem
(/s), so I think I'm going to go spend some time on /r/awww or anywhere else, really, before I go looking for the nearest tall building, lol.)

Taking up smoking “cuz it’s cool”. Shittiest habit to get rid of. Thinking you’re invincible. Follow peers instead of thinking things yourself. Trying drugs and getting hooked. Getting drunk for the fun of it. Not listening to more experienced people’s advice. Believing you’re right about everything. Not believing in yourself. Thinking you’re above or below others. Not speaking up your mind. Hiding your feelings. Underestimating the use, meaning and power of the word “love.”

Damn I feel regretful tonight...

Smoking cigarettes...

Trying to “keep up” with how fast their friends or family had or are moving through life (having babies, getting married, buying a house). Might end up marrying someone or have kids because everyone else is and you’re that same age. Just move at your own speed.

Wasting your money on silly things, like giving a stranger reddit gold.

Fueling a platform of knowledge isn't silly.

A lot of people have given warnings about bad relationships/friendships etc. (and I'm late to the party so this will probably be buried but...)

When it comes to these things learn to recognize when a relationship is born out of convenience. A lot of the time we know people because of work and class- we see them everyday, so it's easy to be attached to people because of this and not much else. It's not always a thing, you may find a coworker who's really into the same stuff and all that who is a great person and friend, but it's often the chance that once you no longer are forced to see each other all the time you realize there wasn't much there to begin with.

Not paying debt/ not AVOIDING debt. Pop lease take care of your credit or you'll always end up paying more for everything

If the warranty on anything is barely any more money, you should get it.

X phone costs 700 plus another 50-100 to warranty, it'll pay for itself if anything happens.

Same for mattresses, cars, washing machines, hot water heaters, etc.

Having kids, over using a credit card and destroying their credit, murder

Early 20s kids

Getting behind the wheel of a car while drinking, and not just because of a DWI. If you're lucky, like I was, it's the least of your worries. Thankfully i didn't die when I fell asleep at the wheel and drifted across three lane of traffic before slamming into a guard rail at 70 mph. I thought I was dead, but I wasn't. I felt like i should have been for days. Thankfully i didn't kill anyone or hurt anything more than my bank account, my pride, and my car.

My dad died when I was 18 and it hit me hard. My uncle called a few weeks later and told me I was getting a large sum of money from his estate...and asked if I wanted him to put it in a savings account for me. I said nope, I want it all now. Two years later I had spent it all with absolutely nothing to show for it. It’s my one regret it life, because as a 31 year old I could be halfway through a mortgage payment. You live and you learn I guess.

Staying with a romantic partner that isn’t right for you.

Moving back home

Handling advice and criticism. I know this because I can get extremely defensive because I wanna protect my ideals and my opinions, but people really need to know the difference between being criticized and critique.

The difference is that there are reasons for the critique!! Some people do want you to be better at what you do and sometimes the only way to do it is to smash your baby. Your idea and outlook of certain things. If someone smashes a baby please call the police

Edit: a word

Not learning about and taking your credit seriously. My wife and I are in our 30s now, she's in her 40s, and we are wanting to buy our first house soon. We have years of past mistakes that we have to fix with our credit before we can get to that point. I wish I would have known more about how credit works instead of viewing it as "free" money.

I don't think this'll be an issue these days, but I made the mistake of not taking enough pictures and video: of me, my family, my friends, my girlfriends, my pets, and places I traveled to.
I can barely recall most of my 20s; it'd be nice if I at least had a big shoebox filled with pictures, had I taken many.
So, save your MicroSDs, or keep buying more cloud space, and take as many pictures as you can.
(But not of your food; that shit is stupid as hell.)

Think life will be full of promise and adventure.

Live your dream. Don't listen to people saying you can't succeed or make money doing your passion.

Not taking the chances required to make them.

Maybe not a mistake, but not starting an IRA is one I consider to be a big one in my Personal book

Doing something just because it is what society says you should be doing. I've seen so many people, myself included, go to university to do courses they don't like just because they're smart and that's what they should be doing. Just because these courses will give you a good career.

A good career isn't worth sacrificing your mental health for. And a professional degree certainly isn't the only way to be successful. Young people should study what they enjoy or if they don't like studying, then they should pursue a craft of their liking.

Bitcoin thing?

spend too much time in school

Losing sight of the fact that there is something bigger than ourselves and that we should be humble in everything we do.

Start smoking

Don't spend a fortune on a wedding. Just don't. It's the biggest waste of money, and honestly, most people that I saw do that ended up divorced within 5 years.

And honestly, don't get married in your early 20s. And yes, your grandmom met the life of her life when she was 13 and they stayed together until they died in each other's arms at 99, but that was before Tinder.

Use to much credit. It's good to get cards and good to use them. Just not to buy all the shit you can't afford.

Riding a motorcycle

Of the people I knew in high school who have since passed, the number one cause of death is motorcycle fatality.

Dui. Even with lyft, uber, taxi, dumbasses are getting behind the wheel drunk or high and doing stupid shit.

[deleted]

In my state. A Dui is a minimum 10 grand. An uber has got to be cheaper than that.
Have a DD. Call a friend. If any of my friends call me at 2am and say they are too hammered to drive. I will give them a ride home.

Excessive substance use and promiscuity that is executed in an unsafe manner.

  • Exercise.

  • Sit less.

  • Trim your body hair.

What do these things have in common? If I had done them, I wouldn't have gotten a pilonidal cyst at age 18. Two thousand bucks down the drain and two months of immobility. It ain't worth it. Take care of your body and work standing up.

If you don't know what a pilonidal cyst is, look it up and be very, very afraid.

Getting too attached to an ex

Getting married in the early half of them.

Have kids

Getting addicted to drugs.

Going to University with no plan. End up wasting thousands of dollars and years (given that you are in the US)

Thinking that they found their soulmate,the right one at their early 20s

In my twenties I dropped out of college, almost married the wrong woman, did too many drugs, got drunk alot, and wasted almost all of those years screwing around and thinking tomorrow I can always change. Well tomorrow hit when I was 25. I Realized I was about to marry a woman I wasnt in love with, called off the wedding a month before the date and spent 2 years depressed about it. Not because I made a mistake, but because I wasted so much of her and my time by not sacking up and calling it off earlier (before I even asked her to marry me). I jumped around from job to job in my twenties not looking ahead to the future and just wanting the next paycheck to cover my nights out of partying. At 26 I went back to college to finally study something I'm passionate about (web development). I graduated at 28, met the right girl (haven't asked her to marry me yet, but I will), got a stable job as a php developer, and am finally happy with my life at 31. The only advice I can give is live it up in your twenties, but just in moderation. Spend your early twenties searching for something you'd want to do for the rest of your life (job, skill, trade) and hone it. I just wish I would have found and practiced this passion earlier on in my life. Don't worry if you drop out of college, just make sure if you go back it's for something you really want to learn. Most importantly, if you screw up don't dwell on it (easier said than done, I know). Just realize we all make mistakes, as long as that mistake doesn't kill you, learn from it and use it to grow.

Thinking that retirement is a long way off “I’ll have plenty of time to save money later.”

Going to college.

I would say letting life's responsibilities hinder/diminish your passions. I am 25 now and have a decent job with some great opportunity but that's from a monetary perspective. I feel as if I have let the daily grind of working 10 hours/day and settling for mediocre take away the things I loved the most, the things I had intense passions for in my late teens/early 20's.

That's not to say that it's too late to rekindle said fires, it's all about balancing what defines your identity and what is feasible in terms of sustenance for your long-term self. Imho of course.

Thinking that a big booty on a woman in her 20s is a good idea. That's how you wind up in your late 30s with a wife whose figure is better suited for stopping the run than for inspiring a boner.

Get a 401(k) immediately. Pay taxes

Don't be a bandwagon follower. Have a thought of your own and stand on your principles even though it may not be "popular" among your particular group. It's only you that lives in your skin with your fears, anxieties, and emotions. Don't waste an opportunity for personal growth because you're afraid you won't fit in, it never matters in the long run and can fill your life with reget and " I wish I would have..."

This is a very depressing thread to read at age 30

Debts that can’t afford on your 30s

Go to college and not knowing what you want to do right after

Fucking hell. I did almost everything in this thread in my 20s. So many wasted years...

Get in the wrong marriage/ relationship. That shit fucked me up well into my 30s

Getting addicted to anything.

Debt.

Start saving. Albert Einstein said: Compound interest. Compound interestis the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it ... he who doesn't ... pays it. Compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe.

Starting early with saving or investing makes a massive difference to where you'll end up financially in your 30s, 40s and later. Because of compound growth. It doesn't have to be much, just start early.

You can save yourself rich.

Thinking that you're invincible and bad things happen to other people. The things you're doing to your body now really will catch up to you. Be kind to your body. Take care of your knees; they get damaged really easily. And the damage lasts the rest of your life.

Spending all of your income on meaningless hobbies that you’ll eventually drop, rather than saving or investing the money. The solution to that is to make investments and saving one of your hobbies.

But, I grew up poor and for the first few years of having a full time job I and did/bought all the things that kid me could never have. RC gadgets, gaming consoles/PCs, a fancy phone, new laptop, a watch, nice shoes etc. I literally had never been overseas before the age of 22, so I went on holidays overseas too and that turned out to be pretty damn expensive.

And I wouldn’t say don’t do this stuff, because I’m really glad I did do it all. But now that I’m older and have a bit more perspective, I would choose these things more carefully, and thinking about how much was spent I’m like fuck me I should have been more careful with my savings. Cause that could almost amount to a house deposit these days.

Don't get married because you feel obligated.

Not enjoying being young.

Not seizing any opportunity to learn something new wherever they are.

Alcohol consumption.

Thinking love is eternal

Drugs, pregnancy, and debt

Do not get married at an early age. My niece did that just a few months ago, and now her career (was still in school) is seemingly dead.

Drink driving

Over confidence. Period. Experience is the greatest teacher.

get loans, get married, have children, study something you don't like in university because your parents want, believing that she/he is the one (there's no such thing), not using condoms, not dating enough, taking romantic relationships too seriously.

Buying a house

It seems most of these suggestions can be summed up like this:

Live your twenties as thought you will have thirties and forties and fifties and...

Don't car surf.

A guy I played soccer with surfed a teammate's hood across a parking lot, fell, and cracked his head open. It devastated the other students who knew him, as well as turning him into a shell of his former self. He had suffered a traumatic brain injury and it changed him from an honor student to someone with the mental capacity of a kindergartner.

Having a child. You just shouldn't have a kid in your 20's, you haven't even started YOUR life.

Not starting a 401k

Don’t quit school whatever you do. Most higher paying jobs today require minimum a university/college degree.

Also, unfortunately everything cost money and you’ll need a lot of it to live comfortably.

Tattoo removal takes a LONG LONG time. Seriously. Just passed a YEAR (~6 at the quickest between session time allowed) of sessions and still (nearly) just as visible. Get tattoos if you want, I LOVE all of mine and am sad to see these (knuckles) go. But if you think: “eh it’s no big deal I can always get them removed later.” It’s probably better just not to do it (in that area).

Buying fast food instead of cooking food. I spent $1,400 in 5 months. I don't even want to continue looking more into the past.

Partying their entire 20s and expecting to have a partner/kids at 30. Although unpopular, this is a huge social issue, particularly because it takes most people by surprise. I council endless people around this and the reality is often that they didn't cultivate the opportunity. This could cover lots of issues but the continuous one I hear is how they don't have the family/life they expected to show up and the failure to accept that it was their behaviour in their 20s that caused it. Without bringing anyone down, there are some hard truths you want avoid hearing which you can from acting earlier. Pregnancy issues being one

Not saving money properly.

Not making any mistakes

Don't move in with a significant other if you have no real plans to marry them or make a long term commitment. You're wasting your time building a life you don't really want. If you need a room mate, find one. Room with friends, whatever you need to do. But if you're only so-so about a person, don't live with them. When the relationship goes sour, you don't want to be stuck with them until the end of your lease. You certainly don't want a mini divorce where you find yourselves dividing up furniture and fighting over the security deposit, or worse yet, a beloved pet.

Not putting anything into 401k at their first "real" job. You never know how long you might be at your job, always start saving, you can roll over what you save to your next job

Getting Married.

Failing to start saving for retirement till you get into your 30s. Compound interest works for you IF you let get in early and let it grow. Max out your IRA contributions, go for the most of your employers 401K matching contributions and shoot for getting at least 15% contribution of your net income toward retirement accounts.

Starting to save at 20 years of age vs 30 can make the difference in hundreds of thousands if dollars.

Marriage

Ignoring or disregarding your dreams. If there’s something you wanna do, go do it. There’s not going to be a better time or financial space. The opportunities that are easily missed are the ones offered by youth. Go take risks.

Taking for granted the hobbies, skills and interests that made you YOU in your teens. I used to play piano, violin and drums. I used to paint and draw. I wrote poems and songs and recipes. It was what made me ME. Then I got busy with work, and when I try to pick up or sit down to those hobbies, I find they’re not mine anymore. Stick at it!

Do not stop wearing your retainer. I had nice lovely straight teeth at 14. By 18 there are so many gaps.

Getting demotivated.

Dealt with depression and messy family stuff for a bit in the 20s, and it just generally demotivated me. And it sucked.

Also, not understanding finances. Seek advice but do your own research. I thought I was moderately savvy with my finances... In hindsight I am realizing I wasn't savvy at all and just followed bad advice blindly.

“Traveling the world” instead of focusing on getting debt free. You can get debt free by age 25 if you are disciplined enough.

Not being open to your partner/little communication. Wasted a good 7 years of my life staying with a person I didn't tell my problems to (especially my issues with her, and that's on me). We didn't really talk about what we wanted from the other person, so the other person wasn't able to adjust if he/she wanted to. She cheated on me because she wasn't happy with me anymore. And I understand how shitty I am.

When he/she doesn't adjust to your liking (after talking to them about issues), and you're not fine with it, leave when the relationship isn't making you happy, and stick with that decision no matter what.

Not contributing to a 401K, if your employer offers it

As someone in their 20s, reading this thread has me with a notepad and pencil in one hand, and a bottle of Valium in the other to stop an impending panic attack.

When you do your taxes, most often early on you have to pay them some amount after you file. You generally have the option to have them take it from what you're getting back OR you can pay them on your own a little later. I made the mistake of choosing to pay em later because I wanted my full refund. Now I owe them a much larger amount because I went several years without making those payments. Yes it sucks having it come straight from your refund, but it saves you a world of pain later if you fuck up and decide to procrastinate like I did.

Think that this is going to be the choices you make that will define you.

You can be 30 40 or 50 or whatever and as long as you have the will and the desire to learn and create and have the fucking ambition to get out and make a difference in your life, there is not a whole helluva lot that can stop you.

Life is winding path with many turns and twists, walk it at your pace and know when you've got a dead end to turn around and keep going.

Focusing way too much on grades and job applications in university.

Any time not spent on those was spent playing video games.

I suppose I succeeded financially but epic failed socially.

Not starting to save for Retirement

Debt (especially student debt) demeans your social, financial, and future prospects. Never fall into debt if you can't pay it back in 2 years.

Not making enough mistakes. Live a little. Knuckle down when youre older.

Financing brand new cars they can’t afford

z

Trying to impress people and worrying about what everyone thinks of you. One day you will realize that nobody cares because they are too busy worrying about what everyone else thinks about them, and it's a truly liberating feeling to just let it all go and just impress yourself.

Going to Uni straight away, all my friends have done it and are stressing the fuck out.

Go travel and see the world for a year.

Don't live your life for others. Life is too short for that BS.

I wasted several years pursuing a degree my parents wanted me to get. It was miserable. I finally stood up for myself, took a year off school to figure life out, then ended up getting a degree in something I enjoyed. I don't use my degree now, but it led to some very positive, life changing events, and I even met my wife from it. Quality of life was so much better once I decided to live my life and not the life others wanted me to.

Minor to what people said, but never forget how small the world can be. In college now, and would like to remind people that if you go out of your way to make vendettas against people, you might see them again. And they might be in a position to royally screw you over. Especially if they're a few years ahead of you.

Also, in general, try not to be an ass. There's been several stories of people cutting ahead of some "slow fuck" that ended up being their interviewer.

Not trying to meet new people. It only gets harder with more and more people being settled in the (close) friends department .

Eat for sustinaince, not for fun and brush your fucking teeth.

Not balancing diet and exercise :( I regret my decisions

Get arrested and deported for weed

Not investing in your 401k.

Signing for monthly payments with a store or billing agency that requires no credit. Be aware be very aware.

[deleted]

Do what you feel is right. You will make mistakes in life, but that often makes you stronger and wiser.

The easiest mistake to prevent and easiest to fall for is not using condoms. USE THEM, always! Ive seen so many bright young women basically ruin their lives having a kid around your age.

Thank you very much, I haven’t gotten the talk from my parents or school teachers so I most likely will not be doing that right now but I never know what could happen

Forgetting that they’re only in their twenties & not remembering that they’re actually in their twenties. It sounds a bit wonky but my family always explained it as you’re an adult but you’re also just getting started in life. Don’t be too hard on yourself but also remember to not shirk responsibility.

Not going for what you truly love and what truly makes you happy, but instead following what your parents tell you to do and only following the money. Follow your heart people, you willl be working for the rest of your lives might as well do things you love.

They stop growing as a person and get set in their ways.

Not starting a 401k immediately when it's available. It can be truly life changing money if you start socking it away in your early 20s.

Also blowing large sums of money (like 2 or 3k) on shit you don't need.

Not getting into their 401k or investing.

I'm 29 and a regret of mine is leaving jobs Ive had because of silly personal reasons rather than try and work through it and communicate with people. I was smoking a lot of weed in my early 20s however am not really interested in it anymore, ive just grown past it. I think I'd be in a better place than I am now and would still be close to some people I've drifted from had I stuck to some good jobs I had in my early 20s.

Not taking retirement planning seriously. It’s stunning how much money can be saved if you start early enough and have a smart financial advisor.

Plenty of people are hammering debt.

Learn to be your own best friend. And by that I don't just mean keep your own counsel, although that's a good idea, but be kind to yourself. Treat yourself like a best friend, or even more, q partner.

underwire bras.

Not stay in shape, or remain out of shape.

Never bothering to save or contribute towards a retirement account

a sincere lack of patience

Not contributing to your 401k. Max that bad bad boy out.

Settle down

I am a 4th year Medical student..I Joined medicine because my family wanted to.. I regreted it a year later but I kept on getting pushed by my family..and now im sooo lost on what to.do..I feel like im so close to reaching the bottom.. Like idk what to do anymore.. Quit? Try to push the remianing 2 years? Even though im having doubts I can finish them cleanly I lost so much Confidence because of this.. And became a total Introvert.. And abit of depression hit me..

What do I do anymore?

I am still in my 20s for a few years but boy do I now notice how much quicker time flies. If I were to chime in. I would say try to live your life in a such a way that you would be able to be satisfied and not feel regrets, or at least as few as possible.

If you have a dream or passion you have been too scared to try then give it a shot. Do things for the experience. I find that being able to say.” I tried “ is and will be a comforting feeling down the road when or if I need to change plans and when things will inevitably get more serious and responsibilities pile up.

Wear a helmet.

Buy thing's you NEED. Then if you still have money to spare, to spend, buy things you WANT.

Also, save at least 30-40% of your income.

Staying in one place, having the same friends, and living in a routine.

Explore! Travel! Try new things! Learn! Make and embrace your mistakes! Meet new people who have other viewpoints as well as different ways to live. See the world, make it real for you. Learning shouldn't stop after high school, so make a a habit of learning a new skill or subject every year or two. Life becomes easier when you can see/read something and think "I can learn that" instead of "I don't know how to do that." Making mistakes is something that will be happening to you for the rest of your life, so instead of avoiding them consider them learning experiences. Seek them out instead of avoiding anything remotely new, life shouldn't be about avoiding life experiences.

not enjoying life

Developing a drug addiction.

Signing for a lease or any legally binding contract with a partner/family member. I went bankrupt signing a car lease with a family member and signing for an apartment lease with a boyfriend.

As someone in their 20's, having a kid. You have your whole life to raise kids (if you want to). Live your best years for you.

Source: Am 20.

Drinking.

Being afraid to break the cycle, no matter how nice that cycle may be.

Don't worry about trying to find a relationship. I'm not saying don't date/get married in your twenties but your focus should be on your career and building habits for a good, healthy lifestyle. I'm 26 and it seems like everytime I've found myself in a relationship, I've stumbled, messed up, or set myself back in life. At least you me, it's not worth it yet. But I bet it is worth it when you do finally find someone who makes you happy

Wearing cheap shoes that are painful but look great.

not buying a house

Being fun and promiscuous, not using condoms, and catching an incurable virus or disease....

Not saving their money

Not Voting.

Don't let all your friendships be with drinking buddies. I have a few close friends who are alcoholics in their early 20s. They're great to go to specials night with every week, but they're out there hanging every NIGHT.

Bars are great places to build friend networks. Everyone is lubricated and happy. You might not get a job offer or an internship opportunity, but you might make some valuable friendships that'll last for years.

Don't settle for less than you're worth; if you're underpaid, do something about it. Same goes for overworking. Fuck employer loyalty; they're all paying to see the biggest dick your butt can fit.

Decide to become a chef.

Spending money on impulse purchases.

Buying a brand new car. Wait until you really need one and can absolutely afford it. I have a 7 year loan and 5 years ago I didn’t really think about how in those 5 years I would have a house and 2 kids. Now the $630 car payment is hurting.

Don't seek instant gratification. Biggest source of it is social media. It unnecessarily pressurizes you to look good for a moment yet that trait starts affecting you in the long run. Don't just gym to impress your crush. Look for long term health benefits. Don't make friends to score something or look to be popular. Build long lasting friendship. Those help through tough times. Build a beautiful trustworthy relationship with your parents for long lasting emotional support and not financial one only. When you start working, don't be obsessed to impress your boss or colleague by breaking your back. Do it to create value for yourself and your company. Don't be an expert in small talks. Have meaningful conversations. Don't fuss about your looks. You're good the way you are. Really. Read books. Not for entertainment. But to learn something that will enlighten you. Spend some time for your mind alone. Meditate. Even if it's just for 5 mins a day. Don't cry if you are weak or you lack will power. It is cos of an underlying issue. Talk to parents about it. They will help you recognize it faster and better than your friends.

Stopping their education to pursue a love interest.

There will be others. If theyre the one they will wait for you to establish yourself, not talk you into doing what feels good.

Thinking you are lucky and gambling all your money away. Not having emergency funds.

Travel dude. As much as possible

Start drinking

giving up on your studies.

Probably all said before: getting addicted to something like drugs or gambling, getting into debt, and having a kid too early.

becoming emotionally dependent on toxic people.

Do not get married without marriage counseling first. A therapist can help you understand the dynamics of your relationship beyond what willing partners initially perceive.

Thinking that life is better on a deadline. Too often, people are way too concerned with the whole “if I don’t have (marriage, kids, career, on and on ...) by this age, I’m a failure.”

You’re not a failure. Take your time, do a lot of things to see what you like, who you are, what foods you hate, what you’re looking for in a partner, to see if marriage is something you need, if kids is what you want, go makeup free, eat more chicken wings than carrot sticks, laugh more than you cry, surround yourself with fun real people, don’t ignore your parents, travel, travel, travel, step outside your comfort zone and fucking live this life on your terms.

Spending too much time on Reddit

Thanks reddit for the colesnotes of my 20’s. Summed it up pretty concisely.

Learn hard

Unprotected sex.

Wrap it up homies!

Dropping your studies without understanding that there 99% chances your financial/professional life will be harder than having a degree.

Dropping out of college, having kids is another big one...

getting married

Send nudes

I see a lot of people saying things about over loading on Credit, or thinking making a minimum payment means being able to afford something.... while I agree with all that I want to add:

They avoid credit completely.

I highly suggest getting a credit card with a low balance that you can pay off easily.

When I was 18 I got a jeweler credit card (those ones are usually easy to get without credit). I would buy my mom something relatively inexpensive (100-200) for Mother’s Day. I made a purchase once a year, usually with special financing, and was able to pay it off before the financing period was over.

Doing this will do wonders for your credit, which will help open other doors or make deposits/upfront money less (buying a car, renting an apartment, signing a cellphone contract).

Forgetting that the future is still where it’s at.

Get a DUI

Experiment with heroin or cocaine

Don’t waste your time on shitty friends with no life goals of their own. Not to say don’t have those types of friends, just don’t let them monopolize your time and utility.

Thinking that because you're "technically" an adult, you know what you like and what you don't like; your big learning phase is over. Learning is like exercise in that both can drastically improve your life/style.

Socrates and Einstein both said something like the smartest people admit to knowing nothing. They had mad groupies during life, and a lot of people still think they're the sh*t. The whole Socratic method is basically tag-teaming on 20 questions. Einstein wasn't ever really down with formal intellectuals or education. School's depend on money; they're a business.

The real nugget of wisdom here, for me, is to be humble when you approach people, ideas, and experiences. Not making judgments about people is the best way to develop empathy. Everyone can teach you something new about yourself and the world we live in. In my experience, the more I've worked on this, the better my relationships with others have gotten.

I've been in grad school for a minute and got the opportunity to do some teaching. People have different approaches, and I'm not saying mine is better than any other, but I've learned more from my students than my professors. I would usually spend the beginning of weekly classes just asking people questions about what they were excited about. By the end of the semester, everyone would be participating and class discussion was great.

Tl;dr Jon Snow knows nothing and that's why everyone likes him

Do not postpone creating your money machine. Understand passive income and compound interest. Do not necessarily believe or fall for the marketers promoting passive income. Too often, schools and universities just teach you how to be an employee when they should emphasize learning how to create income outside of direct employment.

Have kids with someone you really don't want to be with or worse - someone who is not capable of being a parent.

Also, on the financial side of things, spending too much money on school can put you behind the eight ball for a long time. Most bachelors degrees are not worth paying private or out-of-state tuition for.

Also racking up a ton of credit card debt - though with that at least you can file bankruptcy (unlike student loans).

Finally, failing to really enjoy that time period in your life (especially your early 20s) is something you'll regret later. Once you get into your 30s most of your friends will be married and/or living elsewhere. Enjoy that time while you can - just don't do anything majorly stupid that you'll end up regretting.

Not taking care of your gums (and teeth)! 33/M I used to simply eat shelled sunflower seeds. I would hold a bunch in my cheeks along the gums. The pressure severely receded my gum line causing me to get surgery today, and the second trip in 2 months. You. Are. NOT. Invisible.

Staying in relationships that are toxic - romantic or otherwise. This applies to jobs too. If it doesn’t feel right in your gut or you feel exhausted all the time, GTFO. There will always be more friends, more love interests, and certainly many many more jobs. Don’t waste your life being unhappy or unfulfilled.

Heroin.

Do not forget that life, and relationships, are moment by moment. Long term plans and goals are good, but take the optimism with a grain of salt.

Spend their time with - wrong friends - playing video games - jerk off - drugs - parties until 4am

Instead, they should start forming their careers and do what they love to be free and financially independent

Not having a 401k

Thinking you're a man/woman because you turned 21. It's only in my late 20s I realised what it really meant to be an man. You're still growing and still reaching full maturity until you're in your early 30s. Sometimes not even then. 21 is not the age of an adult, just a big child.

This post is too real. I appreciate everyone’s genuine advice they are giving.

At 22, I’m trying to live this life right, wondering if I’ll ever stop the partying, always feeling like I’m losing time and constantly looking for answers.

It seems that a lot of people can relate to all topics mentioned. 20s is a time to learn about yourself and better yourself.

I thank everyone for these responses.

Not going to the dermatologist if you have any warning signs.

Thinking you know everything.

Letting yourself go while in a committed relationship. I learned the hard way how easy it is for someone to wake up and not love you anymore, no matter how long you have been together.

getting married

If you think about giving up smoking, do it right now. I've wanted and tried to do this since my early 20's and didn't succeed until 2 months ago (I'm now 27). Thank me once you've done it, it's truly amazing. Take care of your health. NOW is the right time.

Making a reddit account, and spending 6+ hours a day trying to increase an arbitrary score.

Like me

Don't ever get a drunk driving charge! It will F your life up immensely. There's no excuse now with uber and Lyft.

Not investing in retirement. I didn't start until I was 30 and now me and my wife have 20% of our salary going in to make up lost time. Even if it is 1% of your income, start as soon as you can. If your employer matches, match it as soon as you can. Make it a priority

Also. If you get broken, need surgery, take the rehab seriously. You’re young but your not invincible. You need to be all about getting strong, if not strong than before the injury. Be diligent. It’s okay to break but you need to stay the course. Do not fuck with your health.

Marriage

Regularly smoking meth, murder, joining a gang, dabbling in disordered eating, selling yourself for money, chopping off a limb.

Not focus on college when you go to college and pay for it.

start to tell lie, not use to save money, and unsafe sex. One small lie will lead to another lie, snowball effect. Learn to save money even a penny counts!

Perhaps getting the wrong diploma or degree? I personally can’t tell the difference between hobby and career, what I like and what I could do in a job.

Having graduated with a multimedia game design diploma in Singapore, generally I liked the course and managed to gain insights into better skill sets like 3D modelling.

Sad truth IMO is unfortunately I was being told the supply of “multimedia” designers or so exceeds the job demand for them. Only the very few best could survive, and probably the established people with many years of experience in multimedia. It is very difficult to find a job relevant to my diploma in my country.

Business diploma perhaps if I could start again? These kind of “evergreen” educational courses could have probably been more useful for career.

Even with “high” qualifications I might have to take on a “lowly” blue collar job for the rest of my life to survive, that is, if I was able to get one.

Presuming they can trust someone when they're alone with them. A lot of people say things that they don't mean to stick to later on; sometimes they have bad malicious reasons for this and sometimes they have completely noble and legitimate reasons for this justified by their sense of their own safety. Regardless of the reasons, people will lie to you in your life, be careful what situations you get into, and life is always better with an open door and some witnesses (especially in schools and in the work place), until someone has really proven themselves worth trusting and been consistent on separate days and separate interactions in their general shtick (both in how they comport themselves and in any topics that they could either be consistent on or inconsistent on, such as wanting to bang, thinking you're cool, wanting to do you a favor or hang out with you, wanting to cover a shift for you, etc. and all of the above).

So yeah, don't go into solitary situations with people you barely know or who have demonstrated that they're not trustworthy.

Or, just be honest with yourself and those around you. It's pretty difficult for someone to use it against you if you aren't ashamed of it. But I agree that a healthy dose of skepticism is can help you avoid some real shit.

Oh, you should definitely stick to honesty yourself, but you can't control other people's actions. That's my most important advice.

Moving in together too soon in a tiny apartment, that fucked up one of the best things I’ve ever had.

Not making a career path for yourself. You need to start retirement now. If you just work jobs through your 20's with no goal in sight: you will be flat broke and live your life in apartments that suck that you can barely afford, possibly move back in with family, have crappy transportation or a nice vehicle that you can barely afford, have no vacation time to do as you please (but it won't matter because you won't have the money for a vacation), and sooner or later you will get hurt and your medical expenses will suck you dry.

Find a career that you can do that is feasible, and put away money into retirement. Buy a house. Don't waste your money on a nice looking car. The insurance will be too expensive, and you aren't fooling anyone. People will look at you like you fucked up your life for 5-7 years when you get that loan. You don't look cool in your flashy car. You look like a bad decision on wheels. Also, don't lift your stupid truck. You are taking your money and throwing it in the garbage. It does nothing for you but cost you money that you could spend on improving your quality of life or investing in your future. There's a really good chance you don't even need a truck. You don't have anything to tow around besides more bad decisions. You're wasting money on gas that you will never get back every single day. Don't spend so much time worrying about what you drive. Nobody will see you in it, and when they do, they won't care. There are millions of motor vehicles. Yours is not special, and it won't last forever. You will never get a dime in return for the loan, because you will drive that thing into the ground by the time you pay it off and every mile you drive adds maintenance costs and decreases the value.

Eating out. Save money, eat at home.

Don’t spend money you don’t have. When they ask if you want to increase your CC limit, don’t do it. You have no idea the financial volatility you can go through between your early and late 20s.

In 20s, most of time ppl thinks they knew everything and dont wanna listen others and they always try to experience anything by himself even some elder told him he is going to do same mistake sooner or later.

  • Not having a savings account. Even the tiniest amount set aside is important. Many people I know, myself included, spent/spend money on unnecessary things when they have nothing in the savings account.

  • Not taking care of their health. Healthcare is expensive. Things go downhill as we age. Not being in your best possible shape makes things harder as life goes on.

  • Not taking risks. 20s should be about finding yourself. Move. Try different careers if necessary. Date different people. Try scary new things.

Don't assume that you'll have time to do the things you want to do later, whether it's see the world or write a book. If you put off your dreams, they might never happen.

I love my family and my child, and my job is really okay. But if I'm lucky I can get all of an hour a day to spend on my hobbies and sometimes not even that.

Credit card debt.

DUIs will kill you! That BMW 7 with a yellow and red licence plate; makes for a lot of emotional deprecation in value.

Staying in a dead end job. Get out, get out if you can and find one with a future.

Not taking advantage of college.

Also, Red Bull sucks.

Default on your student loan..... happened to a friend of mine and it financially ruined her @ 24.

Not taking care of their credit

Believing that the more years of experience you have means you will make a better wage down the road at your job. You will be lied to about your wage going up over time. You will be screwed over at every turn by even the most friendly employer. You are going to have to fight dirty or end up working hard while staying in poverty endlessly. Don't trust your boss.

Iam 24 this june and i feel like i got completly lost in my life. I have no savings i have some dept i am super lazy and iam just a living mess. I cant find anything to make me do something. All i can do is play computer games and work. I might be addicted to play PC games. Fuck

get health insurance and visit your doctor regularly. get dental insurance and visit your dentist regularly. as someone who is 37 with nerve damage due to uncontrolled diabetes from not visiting the doctor, and no teeth from not visiting the dentist, i can not stress this enough.

[removed]

As in washing and lotion and sunscreen. Or going to a dermatologist

Getting a credit card. Just don't until you're like, 25 and responsible. Please.

Fucking smoking. Quit now. You cant teach an old dog new tricks. I cant quit. Please stop while youre young enough to have the choice.

Thinking he/she is going to change...nope

Not working out.

Invest in your retirement plan!!!

Having a car payment

Credit card debt, doing/acting/buying things just to fit in or look cool in front of others. Caring too much what other people think of you or what ''should be done''

Not getting an education......
Not learning how to manage money.

Wavering. Don't do that. Don't stop thinking about being afraid, but don't let it keep you from leaping. Your twenties are a time to make the biggest mistakes and leaps of your life. But be smart. Listen to who you are and don't listen to too much what people say--now isn't that some irony.

Not saving money. SAVE SAVE SAVE.

Don't know what you want to do with the college degree you're trying to earn? Drop the fuck out, and work while you figure it out, as opposed to racking up 30k in loans while you figure it out just the same.

Caring about their future or those around them.

Not making enough mistakes and learning from them. You don't want to make stupid mistakes when you have kids and more responsibilities because then the consequences are much worse. 20s is a good time to make mistakes. So make plenty

Nothing in your life is set in stone. To quote Chris Rock:

"Now, people tell you life is short. No it’s not. Life is long. Especially if you make the wrong decisions!"

If you're in a hurry to set your life on particular path in your 20s, you're pretty much bound to be wrong.

Being an idiot with credit cards, loans and where you spend your money. Alcohol is expensive and harmful so think more than twice before caving in to peer pressure or FOMO. Learn to cook so you save money over the year, and always do plenty of research before buying things like appliances and especially a car. Just be savvy.

Having kids

Not work hard enough. The edge you can get while working hard in your 20s can sustain all your life.

Also, not taking enough risks but I guess that is a corollary to the first one. The harder one works, the more risk one is willing to take.

Drugs.

Don't be afraid to ask your parents for advice. They've done it, and whether they were successful or not they'll either know what to do or what not to do. I wish I would have listened and not gotten trapped into trouble with a credit card by bank talked me into. I am in my 30s now and have no credit. Heed their advice.

Not put money towards retirement. Seriously, open an IRA or use a company 401k. Walmart matched when I worked there in the early 2000’s. You can roll it over.

I habe friends that think they have all this money because they just make payments for everything. They buy expensive shit like a house, cruises. Cars.... Well one day y'all are going to be divorced poor dumbasses.

Not saving/investing. Get the right mortgage broker and buy a simple house or condo. Mortgages can be less than the rent ur paying depending on the money u put down.

Not saving money or mindlessly splurging on unnecessary things.

Uhhhh I'm arriving to this thread late and I guess I'm pretty much fucked

Til I'm fucked

If you weren't able to learn to maintain a healthy weight in high school or at all, please start getting serious about your health and learning some solid workout regimens and healthy eating habits. I'm 29 now and have struggled with being over 50, almost 60lbs overweight. I have some annoying but potentially problematic back issues that are made worse with the extra weight. The last thing I want is to be older and feel like the weight will never come off.

It's one thing to be naturally thin but when the weight doesn't leave it's good to have methods in place already to make sure they go away or don't show up at all. I honestly wished I'd kept working out when I went off to college... It would've saved me so much stress and heartache with how I viewed myself.

This is not something I should have read as a 29 year old. :(

Playing it safe.

Living responsibly has a time and place, and your 20's isn't the time to do that.

Not learning to save money and become financial independent. That’s my mistake in my 20’s, now i am trying to catch up in my 30’s 😁

Not fucking enough! Seriously, a 3 at 22 is an 11 at 40. Fuck ya brains out, yo.

Comparing yourself to someone else’s lifestyle and thinking you can do the same because you earn more than them or believe you’re just as mature. Just because I’m ready to have kids doesn’t mean you are/should/have to. Just because you bought a house doesn’t mean I’m ready/should/have to. Do what you want when you’re ready at your pace. It’s not a race.

Going to university just because they think they should, without spending time considering if they can afford it, or want to study what they are taking. It is a waste of time and money to study without reason behind it

Going off the top comment on children, the process of can be dangerous. Be sure to be careful with sexual partners and potential SOs. You coukd end up with a disease or with someone who is not right/abusive for/to you.

Was gonna say I’m 25 and feel like a vampire sucked the life out of me.

Work hard enough to invest real money into a hobby.

Not saving for retirement.

Not taking your mental health seriously. If you're in college, use the resources available to you on campus. Problems aren't going to solve themselves, and you wouldn't leave a physical disease untreated.

Marry and getting kids.

Going absolutely insane with student loans just because they can. Oh a new MacBook pro/gaming PC. I'll be having that!!!! Then just. Not paying them back.... Forbearance... Collections.. and ruined credit.

Also in the real world. Blowing through your paycheck in your newly found career and not setting some aside. 401k... Retirement.... Bury it in the backyard. Save your money!!!

Also. If they are alive. Tell your parents/grandparents/brothers and sisters you love them. The petty crap doesn't matter when you are 35 standing over their casket.

Hard drugs.

Its all fun till youre hooked.

Spent half of my 20s using, half trying to get off of.

Marriage

Cocaine

Fucking up your credit

Holding on to toxic relationships, friendships, people, and/or jobs.

Not leaving.

Leave your home town. Seriously. No matter where your home town is, leave it. Try new places.

Leave that SO who isn't amazing to you. I swear to god, there are people out there who will love you without making you feel like dirt.

Leave the job you hate. Find a better one, and move on. Apply to a thousand jobs if that's what it takes.

Leave yourself alone. Don't bully yourself or cut yourself down. Find things you love about yourself and build on them.

But seriously. GTFO of your home town.

Stop reading books. Please, waste part of your time doing nothing, but also read books. Books that you like. 15 or 20 minutes at day are enough to enjoy reading.

So, when you become old, and your fingers can't hold a keyboard, or a xbox 9 controller, or you can walk or drive like in your 30's, you always can read a book in your future Kindle Paperblack 3000 DX Olographic Prime. For read you don't need anything but eyes.

Gambling

Watching too much Anime.

Suicide

Take risks, if you’re afraid to do something that just might mean it is worth it

Take care of your body now or it will make you pay dearly later. I ignored this in my teens through the twenties and am already paying dearly for it in my early thirties. By this I don't just mean exercise (although that is a great habit to form) but I am referring to seeking proper medical care for injuries instead of just muscling through it, eating a well balanced diet, avoiding picking up bad habits (smoking, excessive drinking, etc) and not treating your body like it is as indestructible as you currently feel.

Only 10 years later and I have already been hospitalized for GI, Lower Back and joint issues not to mention the slew of other problems I deal with on a day to day basis purely because I did so much damage to my body when I thought "pain is just weakness leaving the body" and simply ignored every time my body screamed at me.

Not planning ahead.

felonies are pretty bad

Choosing to see the worst in life and blaming others for their own well being. Victimhood is a state of mind.

Not investing enough.

Ruining your credit

Sleep around because being single, wild and experimenting seems like “a whole lot of fun”

Meth

DUI. Have a great friend who can’t get a job for shit because of one awful awful night in college.

Never have the courage to do what they actually want to do.

Buying or financing an expensive car you don't need.

Don't get drawn into the party every night, go out drinking all the time hype. 1. It's expensive 2. There are better things to do with your time and ways to kill your liver.

Not having a job before your 20th birthday. Lots of lost potential experience.

Am in my 20s, blowing my money on stuff I dont need.

Choosing a wrong career path, wrong major in college when 18... Still have to study 10 hours a day for something I totally loathe.

What did you choose?

Engineering as a whole. After engineering my career aspects don't really intrigue me. I am thinking of doing an MBA to expand my choices.

  • Look for your wheight. It's pretty easy to shape yourself as a teenage, but pretty tough after 30. Except for the health issues, but that's second point.
  • Check your health regularly. Listen what doctors saying. Actually do what doctors saying.
  • Cure your teeth as soon as possible. Prevention is a lot cheaper.
  • Do not consume more than you really need. It will help you to...
  • ... Save some money. If you start early, you can get decent amount befor your thirties.
  • Be kind in general.
  • Train your social skills.

And one more thing. It's ok to make mistakes. Make conclusions out of them and move on.

Buying brand new fancy cars. Cars are one of the most overpriced things you can buy. Then, people get roped into the idea of having a new car and get stuck in a loop of rolling leftover payments into new loans raising the monthly payments of the new car.

When it's all said and done, you bought something for double what it's worth paid off and you really don't get much out of it.

For a fraction of the price you can buy a modest used car and pay the same payment you would have paid for the fancy car to have the cheaper car paid off quickly. Once paid off, keep paying the same price into savings. When your car breaks down, you'll have plenty of money to fix it and eventually you'll have so much excess that you can put it toward other responsible purchases... Like paying off college debt.

This cycle will help set you up in the long haul. My wife and I now own a nice home and drive luxury vehicles that are paid off. We're in our 30's.

Drinking daily.

Have fun in your weekends - of course. But never start drinking daily.

In twenties, seeing time and life as infinite and lasting forever; it's not, it dissappears fast, you will see it as time passes. Taking on debt. Not thinking of freedom, working for yourself, a money producing job career sooner. Not starting on life goals sooner and letting life's distractions get in the way. Not getting out of a wrong major sooner. Letting people's words and actions influence you. Spending time in places you don't like: job, cubicle, home, or where you stay. Spending too much time with friends and relationships that aren't working or you don't like, or they don't like you. Not moving on faster or getting out of the situation faster. Buying too much and accumulating clutter. Not thinking of marriage and a family sooner. Not thinking of the big ticket items in life sooner and working on it sooner: goals, career, family, etc. Not realizing whatever big thing you want to happen, you have to start now because it will take one to twenty plus years to get there. Succumbing to illness. Not cleaning and organizing. That investment and money can take time. Not making decisions fast enough, mulling over things for a long time, procrastinating. Being scared. All that time you spent being scared, being angry, staying in the same crappy place, job, relationship, all that time which can become years, watching tv, playing video games, surfing the net. Doing things, spending time on things that don't matter. This past year a handful of older people I know have died or will die, and a handful of my favorite celebrities have died young: twenties to fifties. It was a trip to see a good friend in a coffin. I've been to more than one funeral this year.

Thinking they are fat and ugly- I wish my fat 50 year old me could go back in time and tell my thin 20 year old me to enjoy my youth and stop worrying about what I look like!

Going to higher education for no reason with no direction, the student loan debt and time isn't worth it.

Source: I teach at colleges/universities

Get married.

switching jobs when you have a good thing going on or doing cosmetic procedures that can harm your health. Also don't waste money and spend time with your parents because they are getting old. Also don't waste time thinking you have all the time in the world because time flies

Not developing true self-awareness.

Thinking u cant be happy in a relationship becasue u always meet a$holes.

Thinking ur career suffers because of management.

Thinking you're not fit because of genetics.

Stop that pattern of thinking. Start to understand yourself and make improvements.

Not making new friends and getting out of your comfort zone. Not just making those new friends, but maintaining them. Relationships are EVERYTHING in life. I am lucky and blessed to have friends still that I've known since I was 4 year old. I also made an amazing set of friends in community college and at my service industry job.

I also messed up my fair share of times and lost friends that I really really miss. People who helped impact and shape my life, that I'll never forget. Join a club, play a sport, join a church, take a class, and remember the butterfly effect. Every single person you meet could be your next best friend, or could lead you to meet your next best friend, or spouse, or a new job, or a new opportunity. Treat every person like they are sent from God into your life for a reason.

not getting over exes soon enough

Trying to do everything to please everyone you know, which is an impossible act of disaster.

From my own experience, not going on a single date nor asking a single woman out. Being alone at 35 because you can't even try sucks.

Kill themselves.

Feeling like you'll be young forever.

Whatever crappy job you have that you don't plan to keep much longer, still contribute to a 401k. Take advantage of how much time you have before retirement.

The shitty, poor paying PC repair job I had through college offered a 50% match on up to 6% of my pre tax dollars. Putting away that few dollars from every check and then leaving it there has grown over the years to over $20k.

So what if you can't touch it until you're 65? It's still free money. Put it away, and let it grow. Future you will thank you.

Getting a body full of tatoos

Don’t commit a felony. It could be something like a DUI that resulted in injury, simple grand theft or burglary, or any other Class D crime. It may sound like “duh” on the surface, but if you think about it, in your 20’s is the worst time.

You could live to be 100 and have it affect your life for 80 YEARS. Rights taken away, hard time getting a job, can’t go to places like Canada, etc. Committing a felony crime in your 20’s will probably have the longest effect on your life more than almost anything else. It will be with you until the day you die unless you somehow get a pardon.

Don't feel pushed to settle down by friends and/or family. Don't settle for a lackluster relationship just because everyone's telling you to get married before you're 27, have a steady career by 35, and 2.5 kids somehow. You decide when it's time for you to make those milestones in your life - and/or the milestones you choose to make on your own.

Kids dread getting a 'regular' job. Many want to be stars, a proffessional athelite, singer, actor, on and on. They fear living a life of drudgery, having to work a regular nine to five job, they fight taking the necessary steps to making their dreams come true. You want to be an athelite? Practice. You want to be and actor? Take acting classes, immerse yourself in whatever it is you want to do, but remember that you most probably will have to pay your way while doing it. Which means a nine to five job. Without someone paying the bills, a dream is just a dream.

Getting married, especially under societal pressure to do so.

Stressing out. I spent a ton of time in my teens and early 20s developing a habit of stress over school and grades. I got into a cycle of anxiety attacks over finals and excessively studying, then being sick for the first week of break because my immune system was shot to hell. But I quickly discovered after graduation that the “real world” doesn’t operate on a semester system, and I struggled to keep jobs at first because I was still in those cycles of stress and illness with no breaks to recover. I also developed Chronic Myeloid Leukemia, a disease that usually only affects people over 55, in my mid 20s.

So yeah, don’t stress kids. I know that’s not an easy instruction to follow, but don’t take school too seriously, and if you are struggling with anxiety, even small amounts, don’t hesitate to seek help.

Not investing in their 401ks

Being afraid to make mistakes. Failure isnt synonymous with error.

Moving to the Bay Area to start a company.

What are some of the biggest mistakes people can make in their 20s? married to soon

What are some of the biggest mistakes people can make in their 30s? married to late

Drink and party too much. There’s more to life. Get out and travel

Drink and party instead of insert important thing here. More applies to early 20's, and don't get me wrong, I don't mean don't have a social life but keep things in balance. I know a lot about this one, and I've been pretty damn lucky to wind up where I am anyways, but most people won't have the devil's own lucky horseshoe up their ass.

-Take people for granted -not saying "yes" to more opportunities

Getting a felony of any sort

Not understanding car maintenance. Oil changes need to be done according to the maintenance schedule provided in your car manual. If something starts seeming out of whack, get it addressed! And if you are going to get a car, make sure you have money to address issues that do come up.

If only a camera can follow and document mr

I'm going to fly contrary to what many people have said, but... Not going to college was my biggest mistake.

I wasn't ready to put in the work to do well at the time. Any bachelor education I would have gotten from the local Jr/St community college would have been near worthless. That being said, I put off going to a real school after having a bad initial college experience. I should really do a stand alone post about how bad it was...

My main advice: Work toward SOMETHING. It doesn't matter if you are going part time, only taking a class or two per semester. When you figure out what you want to do, you will at least have an associate degree out of the way (2 years saved ideally). I could have had a degree from a decent school years ago if I had just kept at it.

PS: Honors classes (particularly Calc 3 ) are not worth it for roughly 1/3 of the students considering the honors program.

Moving out young! Don’t fucking do it if you don’t have to. I moved out at 16/17, I could never have anything nice because I was putting everything to rent and food. I couldn’t do things I enjoyed much, because I was busy working to be able to afford rent and food. Everyone I know who’s successful, lived at home till at least 25.

I spent my 20's smoking weed all the time. Lost connections to family because I just wanted to stay home and smoke weed, spent loads of money on it, got fat. I haven't smoked for quite some years now, that first year I stopped I did more with my life than that whole previous decade. Weed isn't as harmless as the internet makes out, be careful to live in your 20's, not just exist through them.

Crazy as it sounds, graduate school. It is a waste of time that puts you through hell. And everyone thinks it makes you be a better person but al it really means is an extra $2,000 a year.

I had an experience where I had what I considered to be a REALLY cool job. And other people considered it to be a REALLY cool job.

It paid a lot. And I did a lot of mental gymnastics to convince myself that I loved it. And that all of the little things that irritated me about the job were not important. All that the stress would die down as I spent more time in the job and I would get to the fun part once I was more established.

In retrospect, I had a "really cool job" but with a boss who was bad with delegation surrounded by departments that were all secretly stressed out of their fucking minds. I'm happier with my "shitty" coffee job which impresses nobody and pays less.

A cool job isn't a cool job if it makes you miserable. Ain't no one got time for that.

Not knowing your worth and allowing people to take advantage of you.

Forget all that follow your passion bullshit. For 95% of people your passion won’t pay your bills.

In stead of a 4yr degree in something you’re genuinely interested in, and all the loan debt that comes with it, get trained in a skilled labor trade or something that will always be needed and you can do anywhere. Things like carpentry, electrical work, masonry, auto mechanics, hvac, cooking, hell even cutting hair.

Don’t feel like some jobs are beneath you because you’re “smart”. Don’t be afraid to work with your hands. Just because you took honors English doesn’t mean you’re going to be an author. Just because you were the lead in your high school play doesn’t mean you’re going to be Ryan gosling.

And the whole it’s not what you know it’s WHO you know adage is true! Make connections. Take opportunities when they present themselves.

As someone in their 20’s.

From my personal experience:

Leasing shit you can’t afford, even if it’s a laptop.

From watching people around me:

Going to college when you’re not 100% sure what you want to do, generally rushing into collage after high-school is a no no in my mind, I’ll never rush my kids like I’ve seen most parents do. Take a couple years, really give it some thought. This is something you’re spending ALOT of money on and something you’re committing to do for the rest of your life. Once you get out in the real world, it’s not easy to just go back to school when you have kids, car payments, etc.

Not going to express this enough. DON’T GET MARRIED IN YOUR 20’s

Getting married.

Cheating on the girl you love who is also your best friend

Get a drinking or smoking addiction

I was freaked out to open this thread but I am pleasantly surprised by the amount of common sense one just needs to not make big mistakes. As for me I will say stay clear from drug abuse. I've known at least five people from high school who shot up heroin and are now dead. That's not even counting the ones who went to the clink for shoplifting to fuel their habit. The worst part I've been told is that its an appetite that just never fucking ends.

marriage

Not learning about arterial health. Plague build up in the arteries is irreversible. There are no symptoms until it is at least 80% blocked and by then you pretty much f*cked.

Alcohol And drugs..

Getting stuck in the cycle of their 9-5 job and forgetting that they are at the stage where they can aim higher and work harder to get a better job without the responsibilities of kids, mortgages, etc

Following their dreams.

If your dreams are not founded in reality or practicality that is.

First find a way to make a living, then plan for your self-actualization, not the other way around.

Heroin.

Attending a private university that just wants your money. State run unis are certificates and free (in Germany) and when your parents tell you that you should keep looking do it. They have more experience than you.

Drugs

I feel some people are a bit eager to move out and start on their own when they aren't ready. Half of the people I've grown up with have moved out and have already came back to the nests.

Dont fuck up your education you Will need it.

Settle down, get a 'proper job' and a mortgage.

Getting credit cards and maxing out and leasing a car I can barely afford 😭

Getting a degree is important but don't place all your bets on it! Apply for internships, gather some relevant work-related experience, and, besides maintaining your physical health, don't neglect your mental health.

Your twenties set you up for the rest of your life, whatever you want to achieve in life you set the groundwork in your twenties. I strongly recommend reading "The Defining Decade: why your twenties matter and how to make the most of them now" to anyone in their early twenties or even late teens.

Not taking the chance to go for an almost impossible dream. Not going on trips with friends. Spending so much time working instead making memories that you won't forget.

Don't waste money (and time) on things that will add low value per $. SHIT WILL HAPPEN, and it's very nice to have a buffer then. If for some reason shit doesn't happen you'll eventually have money for something nice and still have a buffer. Don't worry you'll never spend that money and it will be "wasted", that's not going to be a problem.

Focus on increasing your income by getting rare and valuable skills by for employers! You can learn to like something by simply becoming good at it. Then a job is always a job...

Then when you can "afford it" (it's always a definition question wants vs needs), you should start monthly investment in an a cheap index fund (low cost per year) and generally never sell unless you have an emergency within the next 10 years.

THEY DON'T LISTEN! Some of the best solutions and ideas I still use today came from some of the most unlikely people

Don't get education in only one field. Get atleast in 3 and start working with collage and start growing ur resume, if u do this now u will have the rest of ur life to enjoy, if not, its all downhill from here.

not wearing a condom

Not spending time figuring out what you want to do with your life, but instead go to university to get a diploma in something you 5 years later will regret.

Story of my life. Sigh... And am already 22

Having kids in college.

Or, for that matter, not pursuing any form of post-secondary education. You don't have to go to college, you can pursue a trade if you want, but don't pursue nothing.

Wear sunscreen.

Going all-in on an inside straight. It's a bad move any time, but it's a bad move in your 20's as well.

Not just debt but not saving. Save every dollar you can.

As someon in twenties , this is some of the best life lessons I get for free. Thank you OP.

If their employer has a matching retirement investment plan where they match the money you put in (be sure to read up on fees etc), not investing in it.

Could you expand on this one at all please? Is there something specific?

Started a job recently that does this and I've been a little dubious about the whole thing being done for me without me having to do very much at all. While I like the idea of a pension, the relative lack of involvement I've had in the whole affair has weirded me out a little.

Of course...

It is going to come down to the specific plan(s) your employer has set up either through the company or by having 3rd party reps come in & 'set up meetings' to talk with you.

An employer matched retirement fund is basically a fund where for every $1 you put in the employer puts $1 in as well...you just doubled your money!

Now, they normally match up to a certain amount & it is advisable to go as high as they match, IF you can afford to do so.

There are some pretty crappy pissing match sub reddits, however r/personalfinance is not one of those. I would highly suggest you go there & look through the side bar & read the links there. It won't take long & will be a good primer.

Another must is to watch this episode of John Oliver. While you are laughing you will be provided with some wisdom specifically geared towards this.

One of the big takeaways is to be sure you have a 'Fiduciary' working for you when it comes to your money, if you go the route of even having someone else control your investing.

TLDR - Hit the r/personalfinance sub reddit & watch John Oliver

Doing hard drugs Btw I'm doing it 😂😂😂

Get lazy/don't work out after they leave school and they no longer have sports teams or PE class keeping them active

Being healthy/strong helps prevent injuries as well.

Not serious with future jobs and college major.

Yesterday I was 18 and now I'm 22. Why didn't anyone tell me that time moves faster as you get older.

I can only imagine how 60+ year-olds feel.

r/getmotivated

'The chains of habit are too light to be felt until they are too heavy to be broken.' -Samuel Johnson

Thats true. And After you've tried with varying sucess to aquire good habits, eschew bad ones, do what you can to secure your financial and emotional future, planned and worked with the varying energies we posess -remember-things are pretty perfect right now, this day, this moment, whatever it is , -is wonderful.

There is a world in a grain of sand, heaven in a wildflower, eternity in an hour.

We are all dogs going to the vet for a needle; we ignorantly fear the tumult that bounces grinds and shapes us, into something much better.

Drug abuse

Not realizing that even being happy over the same simple things becomes so much harder as time goes on. Be happy and have fun in your 20s, because it's the only chance you'll get.

Children

Getting a student loan. You are SO much better off pausing school to work for a couple of years to save, THEN going to university when you can pay for the course without a loan. I see so many of my friends now burdened with loans, which I never took.

Voting for Trump and Modi.

Drugs.

Become addicted to anything...

investing in anyone more than yourself, sounds harsh and counter to your upbringing but helping drug addicted brothers , or thinking that you've met "the one" is a good way to not be a homeowner at 40, #neverretire , HAHA lifes awesome

Don’t do something stupid that could get you into jail. If some criminal opportunity pops up and it seems easy to pull off, or could help you out of financial hole or whatever just don’t do it. Things go wrong more often then they succeed. Leave crimes to professional criminals.5

*didnt happen to me but to two friends. A criminal record with a jail sentence is nothing you want for the future.

Also don’t drink and drive. Try not to kill anyone.

Thinking I'd be happy

Stop buying so much weed. (I need to).

Gambling

Commenting so I have this as a go to guide for the remainder of my 20s.

Get married. Having kids.

Thinking youv'e figured anything out at all, especially when it comes to other people.

You are right, of course. You haven't figured it out. And if you make assumptions based on the things "you have figured out", you will miss out on great memories and moments with those people. Or get screwed over by other people.

Basically, you are a shitty psychic, you can't actually read minds and you can't actually tell the future. Just talk to people. You don't know anything about someone unless they tell it to you.

reddit

Study something without any jobsecurity

Spending too much time, mental energy, and phone battery scrolling away for hours on social media platforms, while looking for validation from people that, for the most part, aren't really involved in your life. I regret wasting so much time on it when I was slightly younger; it's still an addiction I struggle with. (I'm in my late 20s now).

Some days I think of all I could've accomplished had I not spent all that time mindlessly scrolling away. It makes me feel like I've wasted the better part of my 20s (and wasted my phone's battery life)

Make and update an action plan. Im 24 and for the last 10 years I've had no idea what I want to do with my life and career and so I've stagnated in a job that I have, despite it being well paid. After spending a day planning who and what I want to be I now have a plan, and a back up plan, so I can utilise my time correctly. Use realistic goals and make sure you do anything which keeps you motivated. Always do the hardest task first.

Get married especially to a fellow 20 year old and then double down on this mistake by having kids

Not doing things that make you happy.

Blowing thousands of dollars at the strip club.

Getting caught up in an addiction

Postponing things like saving money and getting an education.

You’re in no hurry, but saving small amounts over a longer period of time is something everyone should consider. Imagine saving up 50$ per month, adding up to 600$ per year and perhaps 3000$ over a five year period. If setting some money aside per month don’t harm ya, it’ll definitely benefit you in the long run. As far as education you might lose your spark after a while, so don’t postpone it for too long, although taking a gap year or two is healthy for the lost of us IMO.

Learning how to read , reading is a big issue for me. I want to attend college but my skill level is 6th grade

I just turned 30. Can I still be young and hungry and chase my dream?

Deciding you don't need to learn or think critically any more. This is the worst decision you could ever make, because they're skills. Skills that by 20 you have been refining for 16 years of school. Skills that fade quickly, and when they do, do not expect them to come back easily. I've seen people stifle their career, their personal growth, be outgrown by partners and become toxic and resentful all because of this decision. Never let your desire to think and learn fade, it will ruin you.

I'm 20 but I'm pretty mature for my age (that isn't to say I don't have a lot more life to live and insight to make), I'm settled in my current career making 55k/year, live on my own so I've got the foundational bit of adulthood down.

And that's one of my biggest suggestions. Get yourself to a comfortable spot before you start to head out and experience things. This means not having children too early, getting a well-paying job and preferably a job you're happy in (if possible), and essentially getting your shit together and THEN delving into all of your experiences.

And when you have these experiences, trying to learn from them and become more aware of your relativity to everything that's around you.

Live your life to it's fullest extent and never stop doing that. Your life doesn't end when you hit 30, 40, or 50. You make the most of your life and have a balance between working and actually living. Alan Watts said it best -- we tend to always be trying to pass the next milestone in life and we waste the time we have trying to build up a savings so that when we're old we have a whole lot of money, and not enough energy to do anything with it.

You have the energy now to do everything. Go do it, don't let anything hold you back.

edit: missed word

Not taking care of yourself. Sleep, eat, brush your teeth. Also utilize your time and put in effort to get a job, degree, career and keep moving up until you are financially happy. Start early on as well as starting a savings early.

Don't smoke.dont drink excessively. Save money (my god I wish I did) Think about the future. Get an education. Travel

Traveling and saving money are mutually exclusive concepts in my experience.

Not necessarily. If you save well and set up a budget excel sheet you would be suprised what you can achieve

I guess I'm just bad at planning trips...its also really expensive to get off of Africa to anywhere else so there is that :D Plane tickets usually make up half or more of my travel budget.

Tell me about it. ! I'm in Ireland and I'm trying to save to go to South Africa. A safari is a bucket list dream I want to do next

Biting into financial situations that they are not able to chew.

Move to Hawai'i without a VERY VERY VERY good reason. And no, choosing to bum around here for a few years for "funsies" is not a good reason.

Buying a boat in your 20s is a terrible idea and a good way to financially handicap yourself for many years to come.

Spending too much time on the couch/inside. Not learning about civics. Not understanding the difference between drinking buddies and friends. Chasing a hoe. Getting married young, having a kid. Honestly, just spend more time with your family. I've grown pretty far apart from my family and it sucks.

In my opinion, not specializing in something is one of the worst mistakes. Switching between different jobs and not having a clear, focused career path can be detrimental in so many ways. My manager always tells me: " being an expert at something will make you expensive".

Marry your high school love interest.

Be aware that most decisions (beside those regarding your health) you do now are NOT in stone for the rest of your life. It is okay to learn one job and after a few years decide for another profession. That path doesn't end with you being 20. Also you most probably wont stay with the same partner for the next 50 years. (happens but is less likely than you think.)

Stop being so self conscious on your looks. In 20 years you will look at an old photo of yourself and say "what was I thinking?! I was looking great!".

Following that idea - have (protected) sex much as you can get it. It wont get more or better (only more valuable) when you hit 50.

Stop studying like me.

Start producing something, anything.

Bake a cake, start a blog, build a company, make music, a book club, it doesn't matter. Just create something.

Not building your credit, I’m 26 and only just now starting this one, start as early as you can.

Not taking advantage of your time. You have the time to start a business, fail and go bankrupt, and try again. Take advantage of being young and take that risk, you’re young enough to make mistakes and live or be wildly successful.

Honestly,being afraid to take action.Being afraid to move on with life.Having that self doubt about everything that you're doing or are involved in. This is,in my opinion,the worst thing that it can happen to you in your early 20s.Believe me,I am that person,don't be like me please...

You know what? f it. You are right. I am going to ask that girl I like on a date.

Do it. And don't forget to tell me how it went.Wish you all the best stranger....

unprotected sex

Having depression and not getting help

Don’t give a shit to “celebrities” and all the shit around them.

Not investing as much money as possible in broad based index funds. Instead I did what most young adults did and spent all of my money, living paycheck to paycheck, getting car loans, and buying things I really didn't need. If you invest early in life, you can retire early.

The biggest mistake I made was living the lie. Working your life away to pay off credit or become wealthy are both silly objectives. Do something that makes you happy.

Do something that makes you happy.

What does make me happy? :o

Buying weed or cigarettes weekly but barely making rent/being able to buy groceries/go to any events.

Not saving money.

Student loans. When I was in college and just out of college I thought "oh yeah student loans are common, don't worry about it." Unless you are at an elite university or you know exactly the field you are going to study and the job you're going to get when you're done then I would really recommend going for the most affordable option for an education. Student loans bogged me down financially throughout my 20s and have delayed me buying a house and building wealth into my early 30s. I'm finally at a point now where my income is getting me ahead, but when I look back, I don't think it was worth it. I could've gained the same career skillset much more cheaply.

Get married.

I'll try to put a positive spin and say appreciate that a mistake is a lesson learned. You will mess up now and you will mess up again and again. As long as you learn adapt for the better then look at those mistakes as badges of learning than shame.

Getting married

Having a grandiose sense of entitlement. Be humble, be willing to learn and build a good work ethic.

Some people manage to get by in life by kissing ass, don’t be like them.

Set the foundation at work - take on extra responsibilities, be proactive and prove yourself. Don’t just chase money by applying for multiple jobs within a short timeframe. Tenure matters.

Don’t spam applications within the same company when you haven’t yet demonstrated your capabilities or have a vaild reason why you’re applying for role after role.

Every workplace has its fair share of politics. Stay out of it as best you can. Be friendly to everyone but don’t end up in cliques or gossip circles. It gets very similar to high school pretty damn quick, don’t feed the fire.

Lead by example.

Not putting money away each paycheck into a savings account and never touching that money.

Getting too caught up in in "friends" of which most are probably only really acquaintances, as life goes on and you start having families or relocating for more career/professional opportunities you start figure out the differences.

My other thought was getting too caught up in a scenes or other identity intensive cultures or even outlooks. It's human nature to want identity and much of the time the ego will want to establish uniqueness by isolating it's identity from greater society while also establishing togetherness by identifying with a specific culture or subculture.

We want to feel some uniqueness in our identity without abandoning hers/pack/hive mentality.

The most obvious examples of this are in counter-culture such as the Punk scene or Goth scene. Both being separatist counter cultures that oddly enough ended up with their own internal popular culture and even uniform like images. Another huge one is the new-age spiritual/drug culture whom usually see themselves as separate from the flock yet tend to have suprisingly similar views values and generate similar edgy theories on things.

Even if I could go back in time and tell 20y.o me how much of a waste of time scenes are, I know 20y.o me wouldn't listen. We love to be devided up into groups....we crave identity, to be this or that yet we also crave a sense of belonging. It's such a big part of human existence that for centuries our leaders have used it to control us.

Nationlsim, religion, race, caste or class even which console, apple or Android, gun control Vs gun rights.

Going to college but never finishing. Either do it or don’t. Don’t accrue student loans and then have nothing to show for it...

I'm only 23, but something I've learned in the past 5 years is to value your friendships. Make time for your loved ones because you never know when it will be the last time you talk to them or see them. I lost 2 extremely close friends to suicide.

Caring way too much about social media.

Racking up lots of credit card debt! Don't fuck around with credit cards. Don't go overboard buying shit you can't afford on credit.

I don't put anymore on a credit card than I can pay at the end of the month.

Not starting meditation

Heroin

Do you have PPI?

Maybe I do?

Give us your bank details to 'cheque'.

Ok :D

Sleeping around and catching HIV.

Knowing that this will have a major effect on your future family life is really tough psychologically.

Dating toxic people.

Work at a bar or night club. It is a shark pit, it will just make you cynical and jaded. Plus the drinking and drugs, I saw so many people get addicted. It just isn't worth it.

Buying a new car on finance. Don't do it. Unless you have money to burn and/or no intention of saving for a deposit so you can own a house one day. It will put you back years, you will end up paying a shitload more than the car is worth, it will depreciate so badly you won't even want to know and you will be looking yourself when you realise you could have saved all that money if you'd just driven a young, low mileage second hand car instead.

Not listening

Not do enough prep work for the rest of their life. Not concentrate on creating a support network. Not concentrate on figuring out what they want to do in life for income and finally not looking after their own mental and physical health.

You don't have to commit to these things but just be mindful and do work when you can.

It really helps your transition into your 30's and 40's.

Drinking the feminist kool aid

Getting questionable facial tattoos

I feel like there's a story here...

Listening to music too loud on your headphones. I was a touring musician in my early 20s (I'm almost 30 now) and I used to not take proper care of my ears during rehearsals or soundcheck and being on stage I would use IEMs and pump the volume waaaay up on them so I could feel the music on stage. The roaring tinnitus is unbearable at times now and there's no cure for it. It's a good thing I live in mostly populated cities so there's always background noise, but if I lived in the country I would probably have to shoot myself in the head.

Working way to much and not enjoying your free time

Unless you enjoy working so therefore that could be considered free time hehe (☞ﾟ∀ﾟ)☞

Not go to uni. Best experience and best four years of my life!

Spending every penny they ever saved on a stupid bitcoin hype, and now waking up every day feeling like a f*** morron.

I mean, if they were in their 15s when they invested they are now rich.

Give it more time...

Not pulling yourself up your bootstraps

Trying to get a tan. The damage you do to your skin is irreversible, not only will you age 10 x faster, but skin cancer and melonoma are also harsh realities.

Not putting yourself out of your comfort zone and giving up too easily. I'm 27 and have a decent job now, I am from a working class family and I feel really uncomfortable in a lot of social situations. But making myself do job interviews and projects when I've not felt confident at all about them has gotten me to where I am so far. I set a goal to reach by 30 and got there at 26.

Act Irresponsibly And Think Everyone Should Bear With Them No Matter What.

Getting married too young.

Doing Drugs for me

Life is about choices no matter what hat age you are. Try not to be peer pressured into anything you do not want to do.

I had a friend buy me a beer after a night of raccoon hunting. I had a 30 min drive home so I said no thanks.

On my way home a dog jump d in front of my car. I wrecked the car very badly I was knocked out and was on 911 for 45 min according to the phone bill later.

Ambulance got there and the police 🚔 first words out of officers mouth was has he been drinking?

if i had to tell my younger self something (i'm only 25 now), it would not to think that I had to go to a big name college. I went to a fine law school with a degree from a normal state university. Nothing special. Also, money is not everything. Jobs that pay a shit ton often have you make sacrifices that in the long run are not worth it, ie your free time and sanity. Lastly, 20 something year olds with ambitions, do internships even if unpaid. Let me tell you: experience speaks volumes over simply academics. Being able to tell an employer that you have done exactly what they are hiring you to do will definitely make you stand out in a pool of several hundred applicants who would probably have less experience.

I wish I had actually done something with myself in high school instead of just playing video games. I even went to college but got nowhere and racked up $36k in debt just for an associates degree in business. Then I got a job in an office and realized I was miserable in that kind of setting just staring at a computer all day, so I quit. Now I work at the deli in a grocery store for minimum wage and live with my mother while my loan builds interest and I can’t afford to make payments on it. I don’t have any skills (practical or fun) and I have no friends. I don’t even have the discipline to make myself learn new hobbies and my mental health is shit (anxiety, ocd, ptsd, etc). I also fucked up my brain with drugs and alcohol so I have the intelligence and memory of a goldfish. At this point the only value I provide myself or anyone else is an example of exactly what you should not be doing with your life. I’m a fucking loser and I don’t see any way to salvage my life, when I ask people for advice, nobody seems to have any advice. One day soon I’ll probably just end up killing myself after blowing what little savings I have on air fare and a high end hooker (because god knows nobody wants to fuck me because I’m such a depressing pity party). I don’t know what I’m hoping for by typing this out, I should probably just delete it and not bother anyone. Nobody gives a fuck about me or my problems because everyone already has enough on their plate, I’m just being selfish and wasting people’s time. Well haha joke’s on you for reading all this. I bet my psychiatrist is sick of me too, he’s always talking about how I don’t have it so bad but he’s the one slaying pussy and driving a camaro and has a fulfilling family and social life, always telling me about his vacations and showing me pictures. Just fucking rubbing it in my face and I keep my mouth shut because I need him for the meds that make my panic attacks almost tolerable. I feel like I want to cry right now but I think I lost the ability to a long time ago. I post suicide memes on Facebook all the time and they’ve just been getting darker and darker. Between how badly I’ve fucked up my life and my lack of a future I just don’t see any point in trying. My direction in life is completely up to the whims of the universe unless I decide to take control and end this miserable existence. Because god knows I need some control in my life. Ok I think I’m done now, gonna troll people and beat off again before bed. Just watch this be too long to submit.

Wow, actually went through, didn’t expect that. Fuck all of you assholes, maybe I should get drunk

Spending too much time on reddit 😂

Getting permanently partnered down too soon. Getting into parenthood too soon.

Wasting years of youth by taking the wrong or useless course in college and starting afresh with a different course after rather than building on top of each.

Treating money like paper.

Failing to plan towards a substantial career and financial path.

Short term gratification with tattoos.

Drug/alcohol addiction.

Getting into legal troubles and ruining the rest of their life with criminal records and time wasted from incarceration.

... and more

Not save for retirement.

Get a pension and watch the compound interest kick in over the years.

Getting married too soon is a huge one.

Ditto having a kid before you're settled.

Not understanding that the world isn't going to ever bow to your whims, and going out assuming that you'll get things just because you "want them".

Not understanding that nobody really cares if you don't feel good about the cause of the entity that's writing your paychecks.

Deciding that saving for retirement is something you'll worry about "later", because you're still young enough that you should be able to blow all your money on cover charges and lagers.

You may think body art is a form of expression - most people who will help you survive with money will view it as narcissistic idiocy. Skip the neck tattoos or the gauged ears unless your life goal is to work at an edgy coffee shop as a barista.

Treating relationships as transitive, disposable items and not putting in the effort to nurture them. Close bonds now will yield enormous dividends later in life.

Getting caught in echo chambers. You, and almost everybody you know because everybody you know is super progressive right now, and you all feel emboldened to tear down anyone who thinks differently than you do. There's an old French saying: If you aren't liberal at 20, you have no heart; if you're still liberal at 40, you have no brain". I'm not saying go become a conservative, I'm saying be willing to listen to opposing viewpoints without viewing them as attacks or to start feeling insecure and attempt to tear those viewpoints down. Because, odds are, when you transition to middle age and beyond, you're going to start looking at a lot of the "world changing" views you held as a 21 year old and wonder what the hell you were thinking, because you're now in a position to where you're the one who might be on the hook to have to pay for them.

There was a graduation anthem in the 90's called Sunscreen. There was a line in there about living in New York, but leaving before it makes you hard, and then living in LA, but leaving before it makes you soft. This is fantastic advice, if not those two cities specifically. Live in a few different parts of the country to get an idea for the culture of them. You're super mobile in your 20's; that story is going to change dramatically when you're in your mid-30's and have a spouse and at least 1 kid and a mortgage. At that point, you're going to have 1 more real move in you before retirement. It's best to learn now what places are like so you can make informed decisions later.

Be the person who thinks 9 moves ahead. Everybody today reads a headline and reaches for their torches, or gets a piece of bad news and reacts viscerally without considering their end game. Too many people are caught up in the now, in instant gratification. Those people almost universally have a lower arc. Always think of the long game; train yourself now to consider every possible outcome to your actions when you can make mistakes and it's easy to train yourself, and you'll go much further later on because you'll be out-strategizing those around you.

Learn personal responsibility. Government is not your friend, and does not exist to make your life better. Government is a necessary bureaucratic evil in order to maintain a civilized society, and actually cares not one iota about you individually (or collectively, for that matter). Being self-reliant means never being in a constant state of worry that forces out of your control are going to make decisions that benefit you - because that's always going to be a coin-flip and, half of the time, it's not going to go your way.

Always insure your rental car. And drive em like you stole em.

Save room for dessert.

Don't fall into the trap of thought that suggests the easiest way for you to succeed is to root for, encourage, or assist in, someone else failing.

Learn to properly debate. It doesn't matter about what. Just learn how to do it effectively in a way that is convincing to more than just your circle. You will spend more of your life than you know fighting for one thing or another, and I don't mean with regards to government.

Never let the credit industry get their claws into you. A mortgage is OK. A vehicle is OK. Even a reasonable sum of student loans you project you can pay back within 5 years is OK. All of those are going to be sub-7% loans, and many of them will provide tax benefits. If you can't afford to pay cash for something else, you can't afford it. 24% APR on a credit card is just dumb. And once they've got their hooks in you, it will take you YEARS to crawl out, if at all.

Keep it wrapped if you're a guy. Especially a guy with a high financial ceiling. Don't get trapped. Don't trust the other person has an implant or is on medication or had a surgical procedure.

Vices in general. I get it, that burger tastes so good (but adds like 5 pounds that will take most of a week if not more to burn off), but the cost in money and time it represents is far more than the joy it brings.

That's the thing I'm starting to realise only recently towards the end of my 20s- sometimes it's better to be unhappy than have a brief flash of joy followed by greater unhappiness than you would have had otherwise.

Also, not doing things costs more than doing things, because when you're not doing things, you end up spending on things to fill your time. Schedule yourself things to do, and you end up spending less on stuff because you don't have the time to spend money on what was my rapid fatgainmoneyloss meal: 'bag of crisps, sandwich, chocolate, energy drink'

Fat and money are the bane of my life thanks to poor decisions earlier this decade, and I will destroy one and eventually swim in the other. Hopefully I get the right ones.

Ethanol of them.

Working to much, trying to hard to achieve a "Career". Enjoy your time, spend time with your loved ones instead of doing things you dont like just for freaking´s moneys sake!

Someone make a TL;DR list of the comments. Or I might do it myself later.

Getting married, huge chance it won't last.

Giving too many fucks about how people view you.

Honestly, I'm in my 20s now but this is something I see so many people my age struggle with. It's also something I struggled with when I was 18-20. Be it your friends, your colleagues, social media, whatever. Giving too many fucks just makes you an overly conscious person with too many worries and self doubts. It literally forces you to set boundaries for yourself because you're constantly restricted by your own rules.

Of course with that said I don't mean just fuck everything and do whatever you want. Do whatever you want but don't be reckless, harmful, or ignorant.

Live your life and stop harping over what people will think about you!

not growing up. i know so many people on the arse-end of their 20s who are still unemployed or who still go to bars every other day. everyone looks at growing up as a bad thing but the reality is, you're creating a future for yourself.

Being afraid to quit their college/course that they signed up to not because they wanted it, but because it was expected/required by family/told by someone else they should do it.

I quit my bachelor just before finishing it (had some issues going on, but it does not matter) and it was the best decision and I wish i have done it sooner. Just after that I realized how anxious and pressured I was by my surroundings to actually study and finish something I did not like in the first place.

If you have something that you are talented in or want to do, you can either go and get education in that field, or just put yourself out there. There are field where degree is neccesary (doctors, architects, chemists...)

But there is also TON of jobs where the degree is "useless" and all that matters is your effort and actual ability at the skill and being "good". Writers, marketing people, all sorts of creative jobs, cooks. Open your own fucking bistro, go and take care of animals, whatever it is. Hell even half of programmers in our company are just excited self-taught juniors who realized its only up to them, if they will learn how to code.

The academical road is great for many people, but for many it is not. Do not dwell on it just because you think you have to. You dont.

Loans, dont take them

If you are trans, not come out. Seriously, if you live in the western world (i.e. can come out and transition in relative safety), it is so much easier to do with 21 when it is with 28. Everyone is still in motion characterwise, you meet more new people faster etc. etc. (And by this I obviously don't mean that transitioning is easy on any larger scale or that it is always the perfect solution for everyone.)

I, like Ian McKellen who said this first, have never met someone who regretted coming out.

I'm in my 20s, and honestly I started drinking a lot in the past two months and it has really ruined my grades and motivation. Socially my life has really became a lot better from meeting new people but the booze has made it very one sided as far as the social life / school balance goes.

For reference, I usually go out Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and sometimes Sunday. I never thought I'd go out as much as I do but I'm quickly losing the grip I once had on school and I'm not sure how to get ahold of it. I'm not addicted yet but I can definitely feel it coming . If anyone has tips please help.

So! Limit yourself and hold yourself to it. Drinking is fun, being social is fun, but dont let it get in the way of school.

Make a circle of friends who do stuff not centered on alcohol.

Be aggressive in your career moves, chase the money, people say money can't buy happiness, it's true, making 200k instead 100k won't make you happy, but you will be a lot happier making 100k in a job you don't like vs 30k in a job you don't like.

Having children. IMHO a person in their 20’s is not emotionally mature enough to decide the “fate” of another human being.

Not drinking enough water. I didn't even drink 500 ml per day and now I have urethral stricture problem. I had surgery but doctor says this will probly happen again in time. So drink at least 1.5 lt liquid per day.

Thinking you're able to sustain a living with a child

Saving for your retirement (properly) , don't ever wait. You're going to live a long time.

Getting married just because you got a woman pregnant.

Ignoring their physical (and by extension mental) fitness and health. THe older you get the harder it becomes to get/maintain fit and healthy. Starting early gives you a much stronger foundation. You'll regret it later if you don't.

Relationships

Waiting for the perfect timing. There will never be a perfect timing. If you are going to do it, DO IT NOW! It applies to majority of things especially concerning your career.

As an added note, don't let older people control your life. There will be seemingly good people that will only manipulate you to advance their interests. Decide where you want to be in your life. Be in control.

Don't wait to have sex! It isn't bad, it's fun and awesome! Also use protection with both parties!

I know and apologize that this is not a proper answer, but:

As a almost 20 year old student I must admit this has to be the most helpful thread i’ve stumbled upon in 4 years. Thank you OP!

Take care of your teeth and don't screw up your credit!

Lifestyle creep.

You move out on your own, start buying nicer things, and become accustomed to spending constantly, and having the newest gadgets. Your cost of living rose unnecessarily and because of that you don't save enough. Keep your expenses as consistent as possible, and make a concentrated effort to save, especially if you get a raise. Increase the amount that you save.

This doesn't mean you can't treat yourself to nice things. But appreciate the treat for what it is, a luxury.

Making debt. stay far away! Looking back now I'd rather eat ramen every day and drive a cheap car then have a credit card and a car on credit. It destroys any notion of disposable income and you will only regret it later

Not figuring out their vices/over indulging them. It's too easy to get carried away with sex, drugs, gambling, etc, but by the time you realise it's a problem, it's much harder to avoid them.

Not realising the world owes you nothing, assuming that working hard and paying your dues is for others and you'll just somehow 'make it's over everyone else who is trying harder.

A cocaine addiction.

Take the unpaid internship

Debt. It's consumed my life and at 25 im looking at 8 years before it's paid off :(

Probably the most important thing- INTERNSHIPS! You seriously need work experience before you work. Even Trump said it himself. I tell people to do internships at a early age. And yeah,don't search online for internships. It's useless. Get your ass around the city one day and go to retail stores or go to car dealerships and ask them can you be there for a while to take down notes of how stuff works. Every business you do,you should know the product fully well.

At this age what parents advice you to do is for your own good. So never ever disobey/disagree with your parents. Always Try to be faithful and obedient to your parents.

Spending all their time online, circlejerking in echo chambers. Believing that the opinions of a few loud marginalized weirdos are going to shake up anything.

Teens do it too of course, but I feel not enough warning is given about this. It's far better to go out and experience some semblance of life rather than rotting away online, being an arrogant ass and thinking you and people who think like you on the internet are part of some upper echelon of humanity.

There's still a stigma about criticizing internet culture, especially when it comes to criticizing how neckbeards behave on forums, reddit, youtube and such, and someone needs to tell all these people that the problem is them and they need to change their habits.

Thinking they have invested too much time into the path they’re currently on to just throw it all away.

Take a loan to pay for a humanities degree

“[Serious] What are some of the biggest mistakes people can make in their 20s?” The same serious mistake that they make during the rest of their lives. Namely investing belief in notions, which they haven’t proof-tested for themselves. Consider this: Any idea that is worth its salt would be accompanied by a command/challenge/invitation to verify its validity, before acceptance. Since those that couldn’t withstand scrutiny, simply wouldn’t even dare to suggest doing that.

Hands down my biggest mistake was credit cards. Just wasted money to they were maxed every time.

Impulse buying. You finally get a job in something other than retail/foodservice and it opens up a whole new tier of things to spend on 😂😂 speaking from experience here.

Moving to Berlin, get involved in the Drug- and Techno scene

Addictions. So much time and health wasted.

You have got to be able to talk about your feelings with people. Close friends family people you are close to. Got to keep aware of your mental health. Never feel daft about asking something on your mind or how they might think of you. Otherwise your going to go into depression and worst things happen then.

Have kids. Save some money and get financially stable, kids are expensive.

Save a little money, even if its $5-$10 a week. Cars break down, things come up, etc. Even an extra $100 can help in a pinch situation

Not trying something because you are afraid of failure. Recovering from failure is much easier when you are younger and have less responsibilities (no spouse or kids).

——-

Here are personal examples from my 20s:

  • I tried to get rich quick by trusting a friend to invest $10k for me. I lost it all. I invested money myself in my 401k after learning how the stock market works. My portfolio is now 6 figures strong and growing.

  • I tried foreclosure real estate investing after paying $300 on a seminar. Didn’t work out, but I bought my first house based on what I learned. It is worth 50% more than what I paid for it a few years ago.

  • I tried running a business partnership with a college roommate. Earned $30k as a side hustle in one semester. Partner wanted me to quit school and my other part time job to concentrate on hustle. Luckily, I said no because the business fizzled out. My part time job became my full time successful career.

  • I got the courage in my 20s to ask women out and had many rejections. I also had my heart broken on one. I now know what love is and married someone who loves me back.

Getting married

Not taking their career seriously.

Settling down too soon.

A lot of people around me seem to take the first job they can get, decide they want to be there forever and try to buy a house. Don't do that. Your 20s allow you to build a career all over and try several different things. To let you move between companies (if the first one you get doesn't work out a few years down the line, or even if you just want a change) and such. You have plenty of time to settle and do the same thing over and over for the rest of your life later, you don't have to start doing it as soon as you can.

Giving up after one setback in life

I was hoping to read something about jobs/work.

Here's my contribution: your first job out of college doesn't have to be amazing. Use it to gain experience; there are a lot of lessons to be learned with regards to work culture and about yourself even if the work isn't remotely related to your interests.

Not making a badass linkedin account. Nobody has to see it, you can put it in private mode but just put a good picture, a "good" resume (with all the hip "skills" keywords, etc. You can "save" jobs without actually hitting apply. You'll go a long time without needing linkedin and indeed and then BAM, you'll wish you already had a good picture uploaded, etc.

Get enough sleep, and take care of your health. I stayed up late playing games alot, and since i had a fulltime job this ment i only got like max 6 hours sleep each night. Not getting enough sleep has a lot of negative effects on your health. For example it can affect your memory, your chance of getting sick(Death sick..) etc. In addition being tired 24/7 and literally having no energy ment i never had the motivation and energy to do workout. When i was 18 i was super fit 154lbs/70kg, played football, workout 5-6 times a week. When i was 24 after 4 years of gaming and little sleep i was 189lbs/86kg, had back problems because of bad body posture after to much sitting down. I managed to turn this around, and im now 26, getting enough sleep, alot of energy to work out, no back problem and im in general a much more happy/positive person. I don't have wife/kids yet, so I can understand that some people don't feel like they have time, but keeping your body in health should be your #2 concern, where #1 is taking care of your family.

Working to much in your younger years

Not living your life to your full potential. This is true in general, but it’s better to plant a tree today than 10 years from now. You should ideally be in the one of the best shapes of your life and have the most free time/energy to accomplish things. Also people are generally easier on young people/more lenient. It’s an investment. Invest now so the returns pay more and more in the long run.

Put their full trust and reliance on someone, either at work, friendships or love. Not realising they can only depend on themselves.

Everyone that I know who is struggling financially have a lot of similar traits. This doesn't mean that everyone that has these traits is struggling but those who are:

  • Got married way to young
  • Had kids way to young
  • Went to college without knowing what they wanted to do
  • Got into a lot of debt with student loans/credit cards
  • Bought a new car right after they got an okay job
  • Have no concept of saving
  • Go out all the time (bars/clubs/restaurants)
  • Don't understand that having the money for something doesn't mean you can afford it

With that said some people have done some or all of the above and did eventually make it out and are doing fine but the majority essentially screwed their future and will never get ahead in life

Edit: oh yeah and people who think owning a house is an asset. No. It's not. Unless you're renting it out it is most definitely not an asset.

Drugs and drinking have really gotten me in my Twenties. Stay active, avoid clubs, fake friends , and booze.

Reposting this topic

Losing track of what is important, sacrificing your well-being for popularity/status.

Thinking that they are the Hot New Thing at work, and treating all those older (and considerably more experienced) than them as just faded has-beens. You will be them one day and someone young and sparkly new will be you as you are now. You will know exactly how much we are holding our tongues out of politeness, not because we think you are right.

Deciding to start selling Valium because you can get them for pennies. Oh look here’s some extra pills, might as well try them.

Don’t do this.

not investing,

buying new cars,

Burning bridges where work is concerned.

It can be very tempting when you're fresh out of school to get cocky (and by "you", I mean anyone - myself included at one point!). You want to spread your wings and show everyone what you can do, but sometimes that can rub people the wrong way. If you're trying to build a career and reputation, word can travel fast if you're difficult to work with, perceived to be arrogant, argumentative, a loose cannon, not a team player, etc. etc. etc. It doesn't matter how talented you may be, sometimes sour grapes might cause an influential coworker (and you just never know who might have critical connections behind the scenes - even someone you think might not be directly related to your work, like the office secretary, an assistant, or even an intern - might have a family member, friend or spouse who's a bigshot, and if your behavior is horrid enough, that bigshot will surely hear all about it!) to badmouth you in an effort to get you blackballed in your field.

You can still get out there and show 'em how it's done, just keep your nose to the grindstone, show a little humility and respect for your coworkers, bosses, managers, and build a reputation for being hard-working and bright. That way the RIGHT kind of news can travel around about you and open new doors!

Not starting a Roth IRA.

Suicide.

This entire thread is making me so uncomfortable.

Believing some of the shit they see on Reddit

putting a time limit on when you should be married and/or have kids, especially women. i see women in their late 20’s who make all the wrong decisions because they think they need to be married and have a baby on the way before their 30th birthday because otherwise they will be considered an old shrew.

few marriages last when you rush to the alter without putting the time in to the relationship and/or get married because you’re knocked up and it’s the “right thing to do”. this isn’t the 1950’s anymore - having a kid out of wedlock or in your 30’s is more than acceptable and the right thing to do is take care of the baby, however it works out. no one wants to be on their second divorce with two kids by their 28th birthday.

i also hate those “if neither of us is married by 30 then we will get married” type of pacts. i have known two sets of idiots that actually did that and both ended in divorce within a year. it was usually one person that cared for the other person who just settled and hated every minute of it.

Stop smoking! I started Smoking with 13/14, weed followed soon and quit now, 12 years later with regular tobacco, stopped smoking weed last year. My lungs feel already better!

Go to the gym! Started 2 month ago, because of back pain, stopped because of a holyday trip and got to start soon again... hope i can make it, you know, because it is hard to leave my couch :D

If I was in my 20's again, I would have bought a pickup instead of a sports car. You can always make money with a pickup truck.

If your Australian: not knowing or taking control of your Superannuation. Control this now could potentially save tens of thousands later in life.

Not starting a 401k with your work. Contribute enough to get a full match from your employer, if provided. It may seem like your paychecks are smaller, and they will be, but the money you put in now will make much more money later.

By the time you're 30, you'll have about a year's salary in there. Another 5 years and it will be double.

*depending on the market.

Don't do drugs. Just don't. Waste of money and if you be one addicted like me (opiates) you'll throw a decade of your life away at the very least... I am 17 months clean now.

Drinking too much. I am struggling with ridding my life of liquor which I famously learned how to abuse in college. That fours years of alcohol abuse has stuck with me for decades.

[deleted]

browsing r/me_irl at 4am in the morning wating for the americans to post the fucking wendesday frog

Don’t pass up opportunities in fear of failure. Imagine if it turns in to the best thing ever. If it doesn’t work, another opportunity will present itself. I lived too safely in my 20s.

Playing too many video games,

watching too many movies,

getting addicted to porn, Drugs, cigarettes & alcohol.

  1. Not realizing their mistakes
  2. Anger at their parents
  3. Addicted to online games
  4. Lack of interest on health and fitness

In a boy's case it's getting a girl pregnant. In a girl's case it's getting an unplanned pregnancy.

Not saving at least $100 a month.

Starting from scratch in your mid thirties, while everyone is buying houses is miserable

Starting smoking at 19 and then developing a bar habit in my earky 20s. Each of them contributed to me getting ~$20k in credit card debt. I probably spent about $40k between them through my 20s. It took me a couple of years and a lot of hard work to climb out of debt. I quit smokong, but I still have more of a thirst for alcohol than I'd like.

It seemed like fun at the time, but I don't have any memories that I cherish from that period in my life.

Cigarettes, binge drinking and credit card debt are all pitfalls that I would avoid.

Still playing Runescape.

Getting any type of felony is pretty bad (if you're in the US, but equivalent in a lot of other places). (Not something I have personal experience with, mind you.)

Depending on other life circumstances, I feel like it's a bad idea to quit jobs in a reckless manner (at any age). I can understand not wanting to stick with something you feel is a dead end, but failing to build a work history is really a terrible mistake and will bite you in the rear later. It happens too often with young people especially.

Not eating enough fruits and getting your daily doze of essential vitamins.

How exactly did this affect you enough in a way that made you post here? Mostly curious for my own health

Well, I was deficient on vitamin A and my eyesight was getting weaker. Also, although not really sure if found in fruits (I think not), I was super deficient on vitamin D. My knee hit a table and still hurt after two years. Turns out didn't have a proper recovery because I was deficient on this vitamin, which is necessary for bone strengthening and generation. Lastly used to be sleepy during the day, I just started taking fruits realising I must be deficient on several important stuff and I think there's improvement.

Thanks I might look into vitamin A. I try to regularly take a Multivitamin, vit C, vit D, and lastly B12 since I have horrible memory. Trying to perform up to par while preventing future issues

Dont take too much of vitamin a though. It isn't water soluble if I remember correctly and will accumulate in your body instead of passing in the urine and sweat. That can be dangerous.

not saving

never say hello to boss

Playing Rs3

Buying a car on finance.

Settling. Sticking with a job/university course/relationship/city just because its the easier option. If you aren't passionate about it or it doesn't feel right, chances are it's not going to grow on you. Listen to other people by all means, but follow your own compass.

smoking

Not paying off their debt (student loan, credit cards, etc), or going into debt in the first place. If you are young and are lucky to have a good career/job, knock that shit out and never go back.

Getting married before 25. So many people in my community (working class, southern) get married and have kids way too soon and then end up in terrible marriages or divorced before 40. Know yourself before you worry about completing another person.

Getting married. You don't know who you are in your twenties. All that potential is wasted if you tie yourself to down before your brain is finished cooking. Between 30 and 35 is a good time to make that kind of commitment both because of your emotional maturity (one would hope) and your financial status being further cemented.

Not being able to cut toxic plagues of people out of their life.

You hear about this shit from your friends, family and on Reddit a shit ton.

People will complain about the same piece of shit screwing them over. Sometimes it will be "well were more distant now.."

Distant? Cut them out of your fucking life. No it's not easy but you're only hurting yourself and helping them.

Keep people in your life that make you happy. If someone is constantly stressing you out and bringing nothing positive in your life why are they in your life?

Not having a plan in place for any career.

Mine was worse, at 18 I was enrolled in University to become a communications major because the advisor told me I have "a nice voice". I had no clue and they made it sound so easy to change majors, so I rolled with communications until I got the early word that it's a dying industry.

Find a career, not a job, but a career. Map it out as young as you can and have a plan in place to study and achieve it.

I know plenty of people that I graduated high school with who never had a plan and work as bartender, Dairy Queen cake maker, Wal-Mart employee, etc.

Not saving money. Need to start early.

Ignoring the importance of valuable time.

Go to a party and fck a person with STD because you're so high you decided to do it unprotected.

Getting a ton of student loans for a Liberal Arts degree. Don't do it my friends!

Over drinking, I'm currently in a hospital bed for pancreatitis from drinking too much over a long period of time

I know im late to the party, but buying/financing a car you think you can afford. This seems to happen alot woth sports cars. You may be able to make payments on it/insurance, but the maintenance is what will set you back more. They require a little more care, and if not done right, you will possibly have a car that doesnt work, and you owe way more on it then it's worth.

Don't limit yourself. Take as many non risky chances as you can. So you don't wonder what if

Putting love before work. I love the person I’m with, but I put them before my career in my 20s. Now we both struggle living paycheck to paycheck. I’m not doing what I really wanted to do when I was younger. It’s so important to focus on your work and what you want to do for a living. If that person is so important in your life, they’ll either wait for you or understand why you put your work first.

Don't work too hard, Don't get injured. Seriously. All these other suggestions on here and I'm almost in tears. I'm fighting to find a place to live on welfare, can barely type and I can't get back into school all because I worked too hard and ended up with bilateral radial tendinitis, cubital tunnel syndrome and the related inability to find a job.

Don't hurt yourself. DO NOT continue through muscle pains. It only gets worse when you have it and in my case, it doesn't want to heal

What did you do for work if you don't mind me asking?

Dish pit, kitchen prep, and stock jockey

I made a mistake that I watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9qBqLVfO4Q:D

Learn how to fight . Even if you take 6 months of a martial art , it could mean the world of difference . You may never use it ever , or you may use it once ever . But you’ll be glad you did in that moment

Investing in poor choices. As well as actually investing money in bad stock I take this to include: -Investing in MLMs or similar job scams (because we’re all young and don’t know any better) -Accepting less than what you’re worth for a ‘steady job’ -Keeping friends around who are bad for you just because ‘we’ve been friends for so long’ (won’t pay back loans, don’t contribute positively to your health, break your trust) -Not taking the time to learn about taxes/investments and just going with your gut feeling (thought I blame this a bit on our education system/priorities tbh)

It’s probably been said already, but not establishing good credit for yourself. My dad helped me get a credit card in high school and he told me to use it once in a while for a tank of gas and then pay off the balance immediately. I never used it for things I couldn’t buy outright, and that helped me reach the point in my mid-20s where I wound up with a really solid credit score. It REALLY helps when you are trying to get approved to buy a new car, get a loan for a house, he’ll even get approved to become a renter for a lot of property rental companies. Ok or bad credit scores are like trying to play the game of life on hard mode.

Not taking care of themselves is definitely at the top of the list. I'm no health nut but I try to always eat well and try to work out as much as I can. I fucked up enough in my teens and also my mid 20s.

Also, DO NOT GET TOO COMFORTABLE AT YOUR JOB! If you are comfortable in a shit job, go out, learn a skill and find something better. Its something I learned in my late 20s. Now I am 30 and finally starting to find myself. Wish I did it when I was younger.

What was your "crap job"?

My crap job was working at a library in the hood. It was only part time from when I was 18 - 27. I wish I had did something different with my life at the time. It wasn't the worst job but I definitely would of been better off leaving when I was 20 and finding myself then. Now I am 30 and just starting to get my shit together. I also had a lot of shit going on in my early 20s so that plays into it too. Again not the worst job but not the best.

Making bad friends.

Two ways you can make bad friends. Not reading signals and ignoring red flags and being purely jungian.

In that first case? When friends make plans without you and do shit without you? They tryna tell u something.

One guy told this "funny" story about how he bullied someone. Then we had a disagreement and he started telling me how hated I was and how I should kill myself.

That REALLY didn't help when the depression hit me after this grenade on tinder attempted to assassinate my self esteem to get out of sex.

Do not stick around people who are like you. You will not grow, you will be in a circle jerk of weakness and you will fall into a damning pit of mediocrity.

Then graduation starts coming and you begin to freak out.

Fuck! I bought a car which I can’t afford and now i’m living a paycheck to paycheck life. Wish someone started this thread 3 months ago

Worrying too much about what they do with their 20’s, just do what you feel is right

I would say having kids, I don't have any myself but every one of my friends who has had kids so far that weren't planned or didn't come after they got their first "big kid" job are really really struggling financially and have to work like two jobs just to make ends meet. They look exhausted all the time and it's like they have given up hope on ever finishing their degree or accomplishing the dreams they had like travel, buying a home, etc. it's really sad to see.

Not paying off debt/saving for future. I am in my 20s but my parents did exactly that and are in their 60s and have nothing for retirement aka won't retire until 70s or 80s. I am paying off my student debt and have an IRA setup and saving as much as possible. When my shit starts to fall apart, the last thing I want to worry about is money

Not taking into account the whole cost, it’s fine thinking to can afford the car or the house but can you afford all the bills that comes with those items?

Make sure you look into properly

Doing a university degree in something that doesn't really interest them and that doesn't even necessarily lead to good job offerings.

Debt.

Becoming a single parent.

Those two things will almost always alter your life in ways that it's nearly impossible to truly recover from.

Alot of economic advice which is kinda cool but ultimately gets you nowhere. In terms of true happiness your 20s are the time when you figure out the the world is huge and needs help, it's when you figure out what true love means. No one, I repeat, no one sits on their deathbed thinking "I should've made more money" or "I should've bought more cars" those are the thoughts of middle aged people beaten down by the system. This is the time you have to make a difference, to be whatever you want to be, to travel the world and give people hope. Go out and do something! Or save up for a car, whatever it's not my life. The biggest mistake you can make now is falling into the trap and getting the job and miserable life you will have until you die. Rise above and become the person the child version of you wanted, do whatever you want (yes it really is that easy, people who are trapped will tell you it's not).

Kids man, having kids.

Messing up your credit. Pay your phone bill, pay your credit cards, pay your cable. Last thing you need is to not be able to qualify for a mortgage/car loan because you forgot to pay your cell phone bill when you were 22.

Spending money on stupid shit like lunch EVERY SINGLE DAY. I think I spent like a thousand dollars on lunch when I could of easily prepared at home if I took 10mins to do it.

I'm still in my 20's but I wish I could of used that money to go on a trip or something.

Staying in unhealthy relationships

Mine was being involved in a series of monogamous, multi-year, emotionally fraught relationships that really weren't all that rewarding instead of playing the field -- and giving up some seriously life-changing opportunities (awesome job offers in foreign countries, etc.) because I had a girlfriend. 45 and happily married for the past 10 years, but I really wish I was more of a man-whore while younger.

Not making mistakes, being compliant and afraid to fail.

Ignoring clear signs of depression or believing that everyone goes through some emotion. If you aren’t feeling like yourself talk to someone, the weight removed from your chest will help tremendously. We’re all in this together no sense trying to fight alone.

Not making enough mistake...

Not building up positive credit.

It's the flip side to opening up credit cards all over, maxing them and sinking under debt. Building up positive credit by using a credit card for a purchase and paying it off immediately is important. Good credit allows you flexibility later in life to take out needed loans, or to have credit cards with high limits in case of serious emergencies that would otherwise destroy your household.

It requires a lot of will power but it is incredibly beneficial.

Get married.

The biggest mistake someone in their 20s can make is assuming that being an "adult" in their 20s doesn't carry all the weight and importance of being an adult all the rest of their life. Believe me, the decisions and consequences you have from your 20s can and will follow you for the rest of your life if you're not careful. There are so many way to easily mess up 5, 10, 15 years of your life, or at least heavily burden it with something really stupid you did when you were in your twenties and assumed that the responsibilities you had then weren't as great as they would be in your 30s, 40s, 50s, etc.

Law school. I am absolutely serious.

Why do you say this? Just curious because I have a few friends in law school .

Completing a degree in a subject you are not interested in

Taking their parents for granted. Call them. Visit them. Often.

Biggest mistake would be not living within your means. Figure out a budget and stick to it. Life is expensive.

Getting married because you were raised thinking something was wrong with you if you weren't married by your mid-late 20s.

Confusing the term "legal adult" with "mature".

Talk to your oldest living relatives and get some solid information about your genealogy.

Surprised not to see this yet but going to school for an almost useless degree. Instead, if you aren't sure what you want to do, go into a trade program, like electrical or mechanical work. The demand is always there and the worldwide "push" for college has made these jobs even more in demand.

Wreck their credit score as they don't entirely know what it does or are uncovered by it. So many people I know in their early 20s go mad with credit agreements they just can't hold up and it wrecks them. Good luck getting a house etc for years after you've settled up

So I've heard a lot here, but the thing I didn't see is anything around felonies.

Granted, this isn't something a lot of people do; but I have seen people ruin their life because they got a stupid felony (armed robbery and rape the two biggest ones). While I don't agree with the system that makes this so, the fact is that schools, jobs, etc. all will ask if you have any felonies on your record, and it's a lot harder to get a job if your answer is "yes".

...

That all said, I think the reason this isn't high up is because not many people do this. Far more people screw up their lives for one of the following (already mentioned) reasons:

  • Relationships. Dating/marrying/having a child with an abusive/immature/incompatible person.
  • Money. Getting too much debt, not saving enough, or not doing something to ensure good long-term earnings.
  • Health. Teeth, exercise, addiction, DUI/DWI, and skin care being the major ones.
  • Complacency. Not using your time well while you have it.

I'll speak to the money side - not starting your retirement savings now. Social Security is being fucked up by Washington DC and we (I'm 34, but I'm in the same boat as those of you in your 20s) WILL NOT be able to count on having it to live on once we retire.

It sucks, and it's not fair, but you MUST take it on yourself to start saving for retirement now. It's easy to do. If your company offers a 401k, ENROLL and put in however much the company will match for (and more if you can).

If your company does not offer a retirement plan, start your own with either an IRA or a Roth IRA (traditional IRAs don't get taxed when the money goes in, but are taxed when it comes out. Roth IRAs are the other way around and preferable in MOST - but not all - situations).

Even if you can only throw $50 a month into a retirement fund, do it. And find the most low-stress one you can - many are called 'target' accounts. They are managed by a financial company based on when you're going to turn 65 and hypothetically retire. They start out nice and aggressive - lots of the money you invest they put into international stocks and american stocks. Volatile sure, but they're not risking a lot of money (your account is small) and you can take the lumps. As you get older, they automatically shift your money into more conservative places to protect what you've earned.

I'm lucky in that I've been employed with the same company and had my 401k seeding since I was 23. Now at 34 I've already got 6 figures saved for retirement. I did not accomplish that by being rich (I'm doing well now, but was in the 30s and 40s for all of my 20s). My best friends, and yours, are time and compound interest.

putting money to far first in a career choice.

all my friends are on paths of "I absolutely hate it, but it'll pay really, really well"

I honestly think the perfect balance is "good enough" pay and meh"work.

if your job makes you 100% dead inside,is the money really worth it?

Not saving money. You don’t need to pay 500-700 extra a month in rent to live within walking distance of your hip bars and you sure as hell don’t need to spend 300-400 a week on Ubers, eating out and drinking. Save up. You’ll thank yourself later. I’m looking at you, DC area millennials. I’m sick of you whining about cost of living.

People will associate your age with a lack of life experience—don't take it personally. These people are also probably hypocrites—don't take it personally. Cherish older adults who take you seriously; they are good people.

Not taking control of your finances. When I was in my 20s I let freedom get to me. I worked hard as a bartender and played hard, literally making $2k a weekend and having to struggle to pay rent at the end of the month. I racked up debt on credit cards because I wanted to own things. I wish I would’ve saved/invested some of that on my future or experiences.

Nah the acid was cool cause I was with 10 of my friends. My brain felt fried for about two weeks after though

Sorry for the delay. It’s 11 PM and I just got home. I have a decent job, and the firm owner is a good friend. I have a lot of freedom and scheduling flexibility. But I also make half of what a first-year associate at a giant firm does. I also work until 11 PM sometimes. I’ve been out of law school for 15 years and still have six figure debt. And I’m one of the lucky ones, because I don’t have to take clients I think are in the wrong, and I don’t have to defend positions that I find deplorable.

And that’s not to say that money is the only issue. Those first year associates I mentioned, the ones making six figures right out of school? They are probably working as many hours as I am, without any of the flexibility. And they will keep doing so, for years and years and years.

Law is a noble profession, and can be a vocation. If someone truly loves it, and they should do it. But the cost of law school and the difficulty in work life balance makes it nearly impossible for it to be a viable career path in the modern era.

Good luck! I hope one day your country and all who live there will have access to universal health care.

Getting married

If you’re Australian and in your 20’s please look into your super account and check fee’s and make sure you’re employer is paying your account!!!

What is a super account?

A superannuation account is where your employers pay 9.5% of your wage to this account and you can’t touch this until you retire so you can live off your own earnings and own contributions instead of the governments minimum income for pensioners and retirees

Opening a credit card and not paying the balance off in full every month. Take it from me, I'm almost 30 and paying off my IDIOCY from ages 21-24.

500k

Getting into watching porn and sex addiction related issues, it ruins the human mental, physical and psychological health and destroy the intimacy during marriage.

A lot of people won't accept what I said, but when they will get there, they will understand.

Not saving! I had a great deposit for a house by the time I was 26 by just opening a savings acc and throwing money into it each month.

Breathe through nose

Herpes

So short answer, no difference and people use it however they feel like , got it

Mmlmkzmkmks . sszszzozzmzzz

Numero Uno has to be thinking that the 20's will last forever, there's plenty of time left to make-up for fuck-ups. Otherwise, this is a stoopid question because 20's is an age where one thinks one know it all. But all they know is the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground. Which is worth what... a hole in the ground. You are a life. At the start of consciousness. Cogitate on that. Then you will have jumped from 20 to 2000 years of wisdom.

Not completely resting injuries to full health. Try to be too tough and it’ll add up fast.

Did the highest rated answer in this get removed? I read a comment on here when this thread went up and I cant find that comment anywhere

Keeping the deceiving thought that "I have enough time"

Using opiates/heroin. Ruined my whole 20 just about. Im just now crawling out of it at the age of 30. Seen quite a few people die, I guess I'm lucky...

Thinking your 20's last forever or that you're still young and can afford to make stupid mistakes. And also staying in a toxic relationship out of fear of being alone. I'm 25 and after making hundreds of dumb decisions I'm just now cleaning up my act, been sober for a month and a half after 9 years of hard drinking and seen massive results already. Got fired due to my drinking but luckily that helped open my eyes and get an even better not so stressful job. As far as the relationship part, I realized there are other people out there and I can't limit myself to one person just because I was used to her, so definitely feeling good about my decisions lately.

(francophone du Québec ici, sorry for my english)

Getting in debt. Even if getting in debt means staying up traveling, you will do it for two or three years then spend the whole rest of your twenties looking to do it again, but you don't have any money to do so because of debt.

Keep studying, make enough money to start your own thing, and do it.

That's the advice I'm giving myself right now because that's exactly my situation. My thirties are coming and there's a lot I wanted to achieve that I didn't. Still young and confident tho, that's the key!

(writing to strangers feel actually pretty good)

don't listen to super loud music in headphones / earphones. if you're in a club or concert with loud music i recommend wearing earplugs, or just shove some tissue in there.

i used to listen to music loud enough so people around me could hear it cause i thought it was cool.

now my hearing is pretty damned. it's tiring for me to stay engaged in conversations with more than 2 - 3 people cause i cant hear them clearly when they speak in a direction that isnt towards me. eventually i get tired of straining my neck and leaning forward to try hear, i start losing focus and finally get tired and just mentally leave the conversation.

it'll also save you from a lot of those awkward "what?", "sorry, what?", [pretend to understand] "oh yea haha" conversations.

Damn I needed this

Not have children! Wait until you are 30-40. My friend I met on MySpace regrets her whole life because she has 10 children at age 20.

Denying job offers before they have officially started at another job...... I'm available if anyone is hiring.

Plenty of mistakes were made. Here's a regret.... One of the best things that I could have done in my early 20s is give away more money and dedicate more time to those in need.

Part of the wise money life that is rarely discussed is figuring out how to make more money so that you can give more away. If you can adopt that mindset, you will be truly successful.

Debt. Buying stupid shit. The most important thing you need to do is buy a home as early as you can. Rent literally tossing money away. A mortgage is you paying yourself every month. I keep getting conflicting answers on the property taxes changes, but if they don’t change a lot that’s free money. After I bought a house, my refund went from 2 grand to almost 15. That’s a lot of extra money for no real reason. Well if you are too busy buying stupid shit you won’t ever save up for the house.

Once you pass that first barrier into home ownership everything else, like retirement, nice cars, toys, etc becomes much more attainable.

The most important thing you need to do is buy a home as early as you can.

Really really bad advice.

You gonna explain why you disagree or just make a statement and walk away? I gave many points why home ownership has benefits and you have none. You also didn’t argue any of my points. Have you ever had a non-fallacy ridden discussion?

Sure. On average houses appreciate very slowly. Much slower than equities and other retirement vehicles. So you there is a lot of oppruntity cost wasted.

Houses have maintenance costs that turn them into a liability if you are not receiving cash flow from it.

If you must spend time maintaining it too that is another opportunity cost.

The house isn't liquid and is harder to get out of. If you buy a house and you later find out that you want to move to a different state (a huge opportunity to making more money, especially in your 20s) than selling takes time and if you take your "always buy a house approach" you would just have another closing cost at the new place you go. And that is assuming you don't have negative equity in it.

30 year mortgages are the most popular types. You end up sending almost double the cost on the house just in interest. Particularly the first 8 years you will build almost no equity and take on all the risk. You might aswell rent at that point.

Tldr: bad ROI, illiquid, risk on mortgage, huge opportunity cost while in your twenties, almost no equity built for first 8 years.

https://youtu.be/NZR_vMTLfIk

You're not going to be able to rent a $500,000 house for $2,100/mo.

Any rental property you're going to be paying a lot more for than the mortgage.

If the mortgage and tax payments are $2,000 a month, expect to pay at least $2,500 in rent.

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It's almost as if it's a complex nuanced issue that takes more than a sentence or two. Linking a video is just like an article so if you don't want to watch, fine, but you can't call bullshit on it if you didn't watch it.

Yes I can, because it’s wrong.

Renting and owning cost very similar per month. In 30 years, I will own a property. You will not. You are giving your money away to someone smarter than you and getting nothing in return for it. It isn’t complex. If you can afford to buy a home, you buy. Simple as that.

Hey there, person here who has been following subs like personal finance, investing, financial independence, etc. for 6+ years.

Renting and owning cost very similar per month.

Depends on where you live.

In 30 years, I will own a property. You will not.

Depends on if the place you live, the company you are with, or the income you have relaxed lifestyle and inflationary costs into is tangible by then.

You are giving your money away to someone smarter than you and getting nothing in return for it.

Untrue. Renting is as much of a strategy to maximize income mobility and career mobility as much as anything else.

It isn’t complex.

It's demonstrably complex. People who paint multivariable, complex fiscal decisions like this in such a black and white are usually bullshitters who don't have a clue, or bullshitters who have a clue.

If you can afford to buy a home, you buy.

Er...

Simple as that.

Property Taxes change. Cost of home maintenance, repair, ownerships, HOA's, etc. change.

Look.

It's not simple and it's a complicated decision. Does it make sense to rent? Sometimes, yes. Does it make sense to buy? Sometimes, yes.

I would ask for you to reconsider your point.

Source: My net worth is higher now than most peoples ever will be in a lifetime. Tying up so much of my wealth and being so overly leveraged with mortgage dept and the costs & fee's associated with selling and buying is not great, it would have directly impacted my financial and career situation negatively.

That includes especially yours. I'm getting a little petty with you because your response and advice is legit shit. Stop shit posting.

Anyways; Thanks to renting, added mobility and freed up time, resources, energy and decision fatigue relief of having a bedroom to float by while I hyper focused on my career and multiple businesses, worked wonders... No sunk costs, and the appreciation on my investment re: my funds, my businesses, my self development (personally + career wise) is far more than even the hottest housing market in the US.

You'll have your home in 30 years, but renting means I'll have one in 30 years without being stuck in a fixed, large, over leveraged asset which could potentially stale out or decline. Risk aversion 101.

3 decades is a long, long time. I'd rather diversify my net worth amongst a lot of asset classes, not put all my eggs in a basket that is literally tied to a zip code.

But hey, super glad your home is working out for you.

See as how every well off person in the world that can afford to be a homeowner is one, and seeing how the benefits are clear and stated and every “benefit” you have must be looked at through squinted eyes, I’m very confident I’m right. But hey, the world needs stupid people too.

Also don't have to worry about many things that home owners do such as paying property tax and being stuck in a house which is suddenly worth 20% less than what you paid for it. I'll buy a house when it is financially viable for me which is when the morgage is 25% or less than my take home pay. Did you even watch the video? It outlines both options pretty well and uses accurate, in fact, conservative assumptions about housing prices and stock market performances for those who rent.

property tax

Which is a tax right off and lowers my taxable income, drastically cutting my tax bill.

suddenly worth 20% percent less than what you paid for it

Homes have plummeted in value long term once in either of our lifetimes. Other than the housing marker crash (which has happened one time) homes have steadily increased in value for just about all of the modern time and is quite universally regarded as the safest investment.

financially viable for me

I didn’t say live outside of your means boy. My original point made it very clear to buy when you can.

No, I didn’t watch the video, because I didn’t ask for a video. Nothing you have said has countered anything I did, and only has proven just how little you know about this topic.

Ok man, you obviously don't want to listen to other points of view. Who knows maybe you have it all figured out, all im saying is renting is not all bad. That being said, renting is usually cheaper than owning. And the money that one saves from renting, if properly invested, will allow almost as much personal financial growth as owning a home will with no commitment.

You're also not taking into account maintenance and upkeep for home owners which can be a large cost that is neglected in your argument. Contrary to your assertion that renting is "throwing away money," it's really not. No more than eating food or paying for gas. You are purchasing a service which benefits you.

Nope the house is worthless by the time it's paid off. Renting requires no maintance either.

House being worthless? You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. Homes are considered the safest investment and have gone down in value once.

Depends on your landlord, what do you think bond is for?

Because houses are overpriced?

The math of going from $2k to $15k by just buying a house does not compute.

If you don’t see how deducting an additional 20+ thousand dollars off my taxable income results in a lower tax bill why are you in this conversation?

Sorry I’ll leave

You need to get away from extremes. Buying a home as early as you can isn't always a good thing, and renting isn't always a bad thing. For example, if you buy a home at 21, you haven't had enough time to earn good credit, which means you won't get prime rate. Prime +1 adds up to tens of thousands of dollars throughout the years. As far as renting, most renters set rent at a small profit, but there are some renters that have paid off their mortgage and are depending on the rent for retirement or just pocket change. They'd rather charge less to find people. I stayed in a few places like that until I was 25 saving for the downpayment.

But you are right, buying stupid shit is one of the worst mistakes a person can make. Going on 2 vacations a year, buying a challanger whatever. That's shit you don't need.

If someone is wealthy enough to buy a home at 21, they probably don’t need to worry about rates.

When i said “Buy as quickly as possible” I had thought that following basic financial principles was a given. I shouldn’t need to have a 4 paragraph preface. Once you have the money to purchase a home, I’m gonna assume you have good credit because if you can save up for a down payment I think it’s safe to assume you are good with money.

I’m gonna assume you have good credit because if you can save up for a down payment I think it’s safe to assume you are good with money.

Well your assumptions aren't logical. Your credit would be low if you never had loan utilization. You could save a million dollars by 25 but if you never took out a car loan or never opened/used a credit card, your credit would still be low.

And one doesn't need to be wealthy to buy a home at 21. I had a friend, saved every penny (literally) since he started earning. At 20, he bought a house of the city, and commutes to work. His parents lived in a basement their whole lives.

Get married. At the very least, wait until your 25.. You will be changing so much as you figure out the real world. Find out who you are and what you need and be sure your partner is just as enlightened.

Married for 34 years at 17, great career, home owner, savings, oldest is already 30.

yeah? so are you trying to advocate for other 17 year olds to get married, if not i dont see the point of your post except maybe a pathetic attempt at bragging

no one said its always going to turn out wrong if you marry early but just waiting a bit is pretty harmless advice

Are you just chiming in out of spite or did you have a point?

This guy not married still 17 pretending to be awesome

waiting does not work in every single scenario. happiness is what you make of it and what you are willing to risk. This is not bragging but just a counter anecdote. its all case by case really.

Being in college for English, psychology, gender studies, feminist studies, anything like that. Unless you're one of the few people who get lucky, you're setting yourself up for utter failure in life.

I don't need to be an SJW to be a failure

This is such nonsense. I majored in English and journalism. I have been working in my field as an editor since I graduated. There are many professions to go into with these majors, and succeeding in them just requires planning while you're still in school.

Yeah, well most graduates end up writing nonsense for small websites or freelance... like I said, some people can be successful, congratulations dude. But it isn't like STEM, where you are pretty much guaranteed a job making 60k a year. So many students go into debt while going to school for a bachelor's in above fields, and end up posting on Reddit about how fucked they are and blame the system instead of themselves.

Edit wording

I have a 2 yr assoc in STEM and make 6 figures while living in a very small city. My sister has a PHd in education and makes $60K. Go figure. I'd have gone further if I knew what I knew now, though.

Journalism has huge potential in this day and age but only if some independent entrepreneur self-marketing/branding spirit is there as well.

What do you do?

Fiber stuff for a large ISP.

Completely disagree. I have a philosophy degree and have got every job I applied for since University (3 in total). I am earning considerably more than most people I know, including those who studied 'proper' subjects.

Don't blame your incompetence on your degree.

Not having enough sex. Seriously. You should non stop fuck your way through your 20s. 30s are for marriages and kids. Use your fun parts during the fun times.

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When you are in your 20s you should embrace the physicality of life. That’s my main point. Single married fwb isn’t my call to make.

Honestly wish I had the life to be doing that. Stuck in a beat job in a small town. Cant save enough to make a trip, spend it all on college. No girls will touch me, Ive gotten fit since hs, but every girl within like 50 miles has a kid past 20 I swear.

Not looking for the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. I see all the young people in my office focusing on the things in life that don't matter and neglecting what will make life worth living in the long term.

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I agree with this completely

I agree with you. I think people misunderstood you. We should always be making an effort. I think a lot of people think they'll make an effort later and are then shocked at how much effort it takes and they're not accustomed or acclimated to dating at all.

I guess I could have phrased it as be open to the idea of finding the person you will spend the rest of your life with, but you are right. It takes time and effort too.

Came here to say “don’t get married at 20 to who you think is ‘the one’”. Because your brain isn’t even fully formed yet. Ask me how I know

Well I didn't say get married at 20. I said to fail to look in your 20s. Hell, I see 28 year olds not having a SO to concentrate on their job.

So think 27, 28 as well as 22, 23

Some would say it's a mistake not to have fun and see what's out there in their twenties. That might include not settling down and limiting your choices

Some people are idiots and jump off of high places into water thinking it will be cool only to injury/break their backs. Just because some people do it doesn't mean it is a good idea. I'm not against having fun. Just be open to the possibility of finding a life partner.

People marrying over 30 have a higher incidence of divorce as people who marry before 30 (and after age 24). Many factors are at play But for lack of a good way to put it, many of the "catches" are gone by the time you hit 30 and you are left with the, for lack of a better term, picked over merchandise. Can you still find a great person to spend your life with? Yes of course. But if you find that person at 25 or 29, why not just be okay with that? I see too many people refusing relationships just because they think they are too young. 25 is not too young.

Getting married. I'm serious.

Edit: all these people downvoting don't like the truth. I'm serious because of personal experiences. No one knows who they are in their twenties. People change too much during this time.

Thinking communism is awesome

Getting knocked up or knocking someone up. Wrap it up until you’re 30 and create a career in the mean time.

Kids

Having a kid in your 20s. It's a bad idea. Wait until you're in your 30s. Wait until you have a stable career. Having kids will disrupt everything about about life from you free time, to your career, to your finances. Make sure you're actually ready for them.

expecting happiness.

Don't worry about what your friends are doing for school/employment.

Yeah you may have a college degree but hows being laid off ? Sure I make less working the same job the last 5 years but im comfortable/happy with it and I have job security bitch !

Almost made the mistake of going to college with no idea wtf I was going to take, I still regret it but watching my friends go into debt because they got laid off and have been on unemployment for the last 6 months sure makes me glad I didnt.

College isnt for everyone people.

Applying for way too many credit cards. Once you start down that rabbit hole, it's impossible do dig out. The banks design credit that way, and most people have severe difficulty escaping the allure of being able to get what they want, when they want it.

Everyone knows it's important to have good credit, but nobody tells you the basics of how to do it. So, here's what you should do:

Get ONE card to establish your credit rating, one only. Pay off the balance IN FULL each and every month, without exception. If that means you have to limit how much you spend on the card so you'll be able to pay it off, so much the better. Make it a habit, something automatic you do without thinking and you'll thank yourself later.

Create a budget that takes ALL your bills and expenses into account, and set a maximum that you will allow yourself to spend with the card in a month. Do not exceed this limit. Ideally, you should use it for pre-authorized payments, like your home gas bill or cell phone, and NOT use it for impulse purchases. In fact, I would even go so far as to just leave it in the house to avoid temptation.

Once you do, you'll find it harder and harder to make your payments, and you'll start looking at other options like high interest loans and other credit cards. You'll start trying to pay off some cards with the credit from other ones, and it's a never ending cycle. It's exceedingly difficult to get out of, even if you have a good job with a decent wage. If you're living cheque to cheque, it's impossible.

And if you get a car loan, I would suggest avoiding getting a credit card until it's paid off. That loan goes against your credit rating as well, and if you're just scraping by and suddenly have a major mechanical failure, you'll be tempted to use the card to pay for the repairs... and then you're screwed. It's a hole you won't get out of.

While I agree with the majority of suggestions you’ve made wrt new credit users, generalizing that multiple credit cards is bad carries a fear mongering tone and ignores the benefit of utilizing multiple lines of credit.

For those who would rather learn to use credit effectively instead of basically ignore it, I would suggest reading through the sidebars on subreddits available such as r/personalfinance and r/churning

Credit card debt. Debt seems inevitable, or normalized when you've had to take out 50k + in loans. Credit card debt crippled me much more than my student loans did. I just paid off all of my credit cards this year, and I've never been prouder.

If you cant afford something at the moment, save and work towards affording it. Itll mean more that way anyways.

Credit cards.

Not travelling. Ok, bear with me. So this may sound dumb and not really a big mistake to a lot of people, but believe me, it is. In my 20s, I went to a few places, but for the most part just went to Vegas or others I had gone to before if I wanted a vacation. I never really bothered to venture anywhere I wasn't at least partly already familiar with, certainly not outside of the country.

Now that I'm in my 30s, I have this urge to just travel, to see what's out there in the world outside of my comfort zone that I'm familiar with. But I have kids, I have a career, I have financial responsibilities on a regular basis that are money that I probably imagined I could even make in salary when I was in my 20s (holy shit are kids expensive). I can't just spin a globe and go wherever it stops. Hell to even go on a date night with my wife is a whole painstaking ordeal that requires significant planning.

My biggest regret is that when I actually had the opportunity to explore the world in my 20s, I passed it up. Like a damn fool, I missed out. Don't make that mistake.

Moving in with a girlfriend, getting a car, and not getting insurance on said car at the age 18. Ask me how I know.

Getting married and having children

Do your best to further your education or obtain additional vocational qualifications. For the aspiring actors/comedians - if your auditions and call-backs aren't satisfactory, set a firm deadline by which you would stop going to auditions and start focusing on a full-time professional path in a different field..

FDs

If you know what they are, you're already too late.

File descriptors?

^Traveler, ^you ^have ^tried ^to ^know ^something ^which ^is ^nearly ^unknowable. ^You ^are, ^of ^course, ^wrong ^in ^your ^guess. ^'tis ^expected. ^No ^judgement ^from ^me. ^The ^one ^who ^invented ^the ^saying ^is ^currently ^in ^prison, ^and ^those ^who ^chuckle ^at ^its ^meaning ^are ^in ^hiding. ^If ^you ^can ^guess ^the ^meaning, ^gold ^awaits ^you. ^But ^for ^now, ^the ^illusion ^remains ^over ^ye ^eyes.

Marriage.

not saving their money

Not smoking weed. Honestly.

Listening to a bunch of people on the internet tell you how to live your life.

Pursuing a pipe dream.

Dating a girl named Shana

Getting married early and starting a family. This does not apply to everyonr but im 38 and just had my first baby and am getting married this week. If i did that in my 20's I would of missed out on so much of my life and experience. I got to know me and be selfish about it. I was able ti travel around the world and live in a van. I wouldnt do that now thay i have a baby. Now i can really put my energies into my baby and family and not regret feeling like i am missing out in life. Anyone else agree?

Twenty

Date a lot Even if just a date for coffee and music, really get to know a lot of people. Sometimes not even a date. Just casual hanging.

Love will sort itself out

Travel Travel but don't avoid

You have the most time you will ever have And freedom

Save money Whatever amount, save 10% of your pay every month

Don't be an asshole Be as decent as possible because you will only have decent later

Just invest in your damn 401(k) and don’t touch it.

Shake your dick in classroom

[deleted]

Noooo don't :( you'll be okay don't worry! Life is hard at times but things do get better, trust me! Just stay strong and you'll be alright ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

Buying a car

Being optimistic about your future job. They all suck and will eventually crush your soul.

Not establishing some sort of exercise regimen. Your 30s are significantly better if you can physically move like you are still in your 20s.

Credit cards and debt

Getting into long term relationships - dont do it

Then what do I do?

Get to know and date a number of people and expand your social circles... you'll really only then find out what you truly want in someone....Also sure by late 20's you can settle down butt like 20-25(ish) don't become hopelessly invested in someone, women change as well and she's just as likely to dump your butt after all those years as well to peruse herself. You change dramatically in your 20's and who you and her were a 20 is not who you are late 20's

So many:

1) Not getting out of your comfort zone. 2) Allow your parents to dictate your future. 3) Not saving money. 4) Not having good Health Habits 4b) this means working two jobs instead of partying 5) Not Having a marketable skill. (Gender or ethnic studies dont count, flipping burgers or barista should be a temp job not a career path.)

EDIT:

A word

Why is getting out of your comfort zone a mistake?

I should have put NOT getting out of your comfort zone

Getting married too young in your 20s. You can’t possibly imagine how much you will grow and change during your 20s so wait before getting married right away. Take time to get to know yourself and even live by yourself. Once you’re married, you won’t get to do that again and you really get to know yourself by living alone

Biggest mistake anyone could make is believing "GOD" exists. 🤗

Voting for Hillary.

She's never running for office again, so your advice is worthless.

Think again. She's the Dems only chance in 2020.

But her emails!

Now that YOU mentioned them..

at least one in every thread

Yup. Either her or Trump. No matter the question.

It's okay. There is always next election. Someday you'll grow up.

Not doing drugs

Have a mortgage

Get married

I say getting married and/or having kids no way you should do that in your 20’s

If the class ends in the word "studies" it generally isn't worth your time or money

Get married, seriously there are many things you can do instead. Sow your oats and live. Consider marriage when you hit 35 and not before.

Don't get married. Bad:
-Divorce
-Stressed every day
-Losing assets with 1 ruling -Custody lost(if you want kids) -Nothing different from long term relationship other than title

Pros: -not many I can think of that isn't in a long term relationship and not emotional, -Americans get benefits if married and in the military(not too sure about other countries),

College Major that's NOT in STEM.

I feel bad for you

Getting student loans.

Suicide. Literally none of your "problems" are real and even if they were that's not an answer. It's a cop out.

[removed]

Care to expand on that, or would that be too difficult?

Judging people you never met based off of their political views.

You're not downvoted because you 'found some liberals'. You're downvoted because you took this question as an opportunity to make a shitty jab at people who do not agree with your political beliefs. Not only is this a childish, insecure, asshole move, but it also is not contributing to the thread. Please, next time you're about to make a comment like this, stop and take a second to think about what you're doing, and then kindly fuck off somewhere else.

Having casual sex not staying with the same partner for life. Having an abortion, taking out student loans, cheating on your spouse, rejecting God’s word the Bible

Turning away from God

turned away from God years ago.

Best decision I ever made tbh

Why was it the best decision you have ever made?

I love my life and where I'm at. Plus, I like admitting that nobody knows what happens when we die or if there even is a God. It's a wonder we are alive at all, so why waste time thinking about some dude in the sky with crazy rules that probably doesn't exist?

Please contribute to the thread, there is a serious tag after all.

OP is asking for "biggest mistakes" not "best decisions"

[deleted]

Been working since I was ten, various jobs with my dad.

16-18 supermarket

18-21 Walmart

21-26 Environmental Testing lab making $13/hr after all that time. Every time I asked for a raise 'oh you don't have a degree so we don't have to pay you what college grads make'

Graduated at 32: $67500

Go to college kids. While I agree it doesn't help you in the workplace much - it opens opportunities

Bro there's a lot more to college than liberal arts. I'm almost done with my engineering degree and don't have an ounce of debt, internships for engineers are high paying and the jobs you get when you graduate are even better. I think you assume all college students are one type of person

I am a Purdue engineering grad. Zero trouble landing a job. It helped my career immensely. Liberal Arts does not set you apart...an engineering degree does. Good luck to you....but you won't need it when your in the top 5% of marketable job candidates in your field.

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You don't think you need higher education for engineering? Teaching yourself that shit is hard man. Try teaching yourself differential equations and mechanical design as well as manufacturing on your own. It's not really possible or at least much harder unless you have the resources (computers, machines, tutors, regimented study) that a college provides. Frankly, when dealing with the safety of products which can be very dangerous when improperly designed I would not trust one test to assess an engineers ability to follow the engineering principles as tests solely assess wrote memorization and not overall skill as an engineer.

The college system is flawed and downright highway robbery in some cases but it is also the only place that offers this kind of education. There are ways to do it cheap which many people don't realize because they are chasing the "college experience." That being said, academia has an important place in our society as some of the greatest scientific and technological breakthroughs have happened on college campuses through the use of college resources.

Hanging out with friends and buddies too much. Drinking too much. Spending too much while hanging out with friends and buddies and drinking too much. Getting mixed up and drugs would be far far worse than this.

Renting, renting is always a mistake. You better off moving into the shittiest little thing that you can own and working your way into something better from there than renting.

Not taking a few risks or trying things that you're interested in that are outside of your safety zone. This is a huge mistake that a lot of people I know have made, and even though they probably wouldn't see it this way or admit to it, they are paying for it. Having to narrow scope of friend.

Also if you can choose one field that you are interested in and stick with it you will have a huge advantage over people who Jump Around.

Renting, renting is always a mistake. You better off moving into the shittiest little thing that you can own and working your way into something better from there than renting.

that is absolutely absurd.

Yeah.. that dude seems a bit off on several points there.

Especially with the current housing market. Wouldn't be fun to buy a house at the peak, have the entire market tank and be unable to sell at breakeven for 10 years.

I'm not convinced that the housing market in most markets has peaked. What makes you think this is the case?

You can always walk away from a mortgage. Your credit takes a big hit but it's only temporary.

I second this

It's completely not absurd in my own experience. Everyone I grew up with that has rented has only delayed their ability to purchase a home or condo. You cannot deduct rent from your taxes.

You can't deduct your mortgage either.

You can deduct mortgage interest and partial maintenance.

Ah, I thought the GOP tax bill changed that for this year, but I guess it didn't.

And for those that can't afford a down payment on a house what do you do? Be homeless until you can? Not everyone has the luxury of living with their parents and saving up for a down payment. Owning a home isn't always the best way to invest your money either. Home ownership isn't for everyone and comes with a lot of responsibility as well. There are many reasons to rent over buy and you're assuming everyone is in the same position as you.

Generally speaking, you will always be better off owning the roof over your head than throwing money away on rent. If you are unable to afford a downpayment, I would suggest that, if you have one, invest as much as possible in your 401k till you can borrow against it for the down payment. This is risky to some extent, but it will get you there.

My original point is, that if you are forced to rent, do everything you can to save enough to get yourself into the cheapest co-op or condo (condo is much better) so that you can begin to build equity to roll over into something better when you are ready to own a home. Unfortunately, renting will slow the process.

Don't buy into the bullshit argument about the cost of a mortgage being more than rent. Unless you know 100% that you will be moving in a year or two, then do everything you can to own where you live or build equity in something you own. Of course, you need to take into consideration the market and prices where you live, but you need to do the same with renting.

You better off moving into the shittiest little thing that you can own

Ehhh if it's something where the maintenance costs are out of control then I'd say that's not a good idea. Especially for a person who has no clue as to what kind of maintenance is needed.

Condos or something like that with an HOA that takes care of the exterior (including the roof) is a good stepping stone. With the plan to only be there long enough to build equity, sell, and move to a nicer place with no HOA.

Ehhh if it's something where the maintenance costs are out of control then I'd say that's not a good idea

maintenance costs, job relocation, housing market plummeting,

You're right I failed to mention this, the building has to have stable finances and the maintenance needs to be within reason.

the building has to have stable finances

WAT?

What, what? Buildings have finances, either leveraged debt or funds for necessary maintenance and repairs. If the building has been charging residents too low a maintenance fee for a long time, it is possible that an assessment might be necessary that will double everyone's maintenance for a period of time. I know this from personal experience.

When you include maintenance and taxes into your mortgage payments it’s not really any more expensive to rent. If you buy you really won’t build any considerable equity until about 5 years in. Also, if you have to move for some reason you’ll be paying for 2 places until you get the old one sold. Unless you are pretty damn certain that you’ll be living somewhere for several years I wouldn’t recommend buying.

If you're going to bounce around, then yes, you might not want to invest in a property but I'm still on the side of making a wise investment in real estate over renting. A person can also get themselves into a lease that is way above their means. It happens all the time.

Hanging out with friends and buddies too much.

I think this part itself is fine. My brother is in his 30s and regrets not taking every opportunity to reconnect with his old college and high school buddies during his 20s. At this point it's too late, friends are married and have kids. It's just too much of a hassle to reestablish those relationships.

Renting, renting is always a mistake. You better off moving into the shittiest little thing that you can own and working

Not always true. The right answer depends on the amount you pay for rent and how much your home costs plus interest payments. If you have a home on a high interest loans, high property taxes, high maintenance fees, excessive renovation work needed, insurance payments, and home owner association fees, then buying is worse.

You need to always calculate the numbers. You can't say buying or renting is always definitely better.

Renting, renting is always a mistake. You better off moving into the shittiest little thing that you can own and working your way into something better from there than renting.

Truly awful advice

You have no clue what you're talking about. Another reddit dipshit tossing out retarded opinions.

On average houses appreciate very slowly. Much slower than equities and other retirement vehicles. So you there is a lot of oppruntity cost wasted.

Houses have maintenance costs that turn them into a liability if you are not receiving cash flow from it.

If you must spend time maintaining it too that is another opportunity cost.

The house isn't liquid and is harder to get out of. If you buy a house and you later find out that you want to move to a different state (a huge opportunity to making more money, especially in your 20s) than selling takes time and if you take your "always buy a house approach" you would just have another closing cost at the new place you go. And that is assuming you don't have negative equity in it.

30 year mortgages are the most popular types. You end up sending almost double the cost on the house just in interest. Particularly the first 8 years you will build almost no equity and take on all the risk. You might aswell rent at that point.

Tldr: bad ROI, illiquid, risk on mortgage, huge opportunity cost while in your twenties, almost no equity built for first 8 years.

If you rent, you lose 100% of funds you spend. There will always be a cost associated with putting a roof over your head unless you live with Mom and Dad or inherit a home. Also, depending on the market that you're in, it can take some time to unload a home but if you rent and sign a lease, you possibly will be required to fulfill the term of your contract.

You're 100% better buying into something where you are building equity in spite of your superficial analysis.

I'd much rather lose out on a little equity in exchange for the lack of commitment, responsibility, and cost that comes with renting. I'm absolutely okay with paying that price for the benefits of renting. Saying "this is factually, objectively, 100% better" is flat out stupid

I don't agree with the renting since not everyone can afford a mortgage, especially now

What's wrong with hanging out with your friends all the time if you're not binge drinking/spending lots of money with them and are responsible otherwise? Also, I really don't think many 20somethings can afford to buy instead of rent in a big city...

So you should take risks, but just stick with the same job? That makes zero sense.

I'm still in high school, but I'm going to say that people probably don't work as much as they could in their youth, I would imagine early-mid 20s people try not to work a lot of hours (but they're capable of it-physically)

Credit. Fucking. Cards.

Financial

Rack up credit card debt. Not pay off student loans.

For married couples: all of the above and then: not buying real cheap life insurance for family.

After debts are paid: not having and emergency fund, not putting money back for retirement.

Eating out for every single meal.

Personal

Deciding on career solely based on money.

Not wearing condoms during hook ups.

Marrying someone you just met (looking at you religious types).

Not starting exercise habits even if small.

Letting little things get you anxious.

Getting a big dog for a small apartment and not exercising it (or worse leaving it in a crate)

Not taking care of your teeth.

So in short, no it's not 6 percent for being military like you claimed, thanks for playing along

You have problems with reading comprehension and doing a simple thing like searching Google. Thank you, come again. Bye, Felicia. Play times over. (See I can be asinine/passive aggressive too).

Any, and all military (also NOAA, and the PHS) entering active duty service.... whether that is joining the active duty military or being activated as part of a NG/Reserve unit.... can sign up for SCRA... which includes capping pre-active duty loans @ 6%.

https://www.military.com/benefits/military-legal-matters/scra/servicemembers-civil-relief-act-overview.html

http://www.citigroup.com/citi/citizen/community/citisalutes/managing-money-products-and-programs.html

https://www.quickenloans.com/blog/active-duty-service-member-scra-benefits-can-help-protect

https://www.saveandinvest.org/military-important-legislation/getting-know-servicemembers-civil-relief-act-scra

https://www.usaa.com/inet/wc/bank_military_special_benefits_main?akredirect=true

https://www.justice.gov/servicemembers/servicemembers-civil-relief-act-scra

https://www.chase.com/digital/military/scra

https://www.wellsfargo.com/military/scra-commitments/

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/when-am-i-covered-by-the-servicemembers-civil-relief-act-scra-en-2086/

*If you really want to nitpick, the person's orders have to be issued federally for a period of 30+ days."

That still covers most any, and all military members at one point or another. Be it during initial training, deployments, TDYs, entire contract, etc.

Facebook

Marriage and/or children

Not pushing yourself to accomplish milestones. You can be stuck at community college for long as you want, no one will drive you harder than yourself.

Spending time on Reddit

Going out of state for college.

Now, if it's for an ivy league college, the reputation will get you a little more for the price hike. But from one state school to another, there's absolutely no reason to get that much debt just for a Bachelor's you could have got back home. Unless you got an awesome scholarship, but that's rarely the case.

Join the military

Buying a sports car. To some with parents help, it's not a problem, but for someone opting to buy one will wreck their savings and bank account, as well as every penny they make. Gas, insurance, etc. You name it. Unless you're financially set, with a decent job paying over 40k, a sports car(even an affordable one) is a big mistake.

Getting married

Start using large amounts of crystal meth instead of taking an active role in the raising of your young children.

Guys try to find a beautiful and wealthy life partner although this age is not for such thoughts, while girls try their best to find a serious lover for herself, not a fraud.

I'm told most males who seriously hospitalize themselves do so around 25. In my case, skydiving at 26.

Having so much fun in the throws of unbridled youth. As to be totally unprepared for the oft times, "one-two punch" that is life. At this time, in this world, resilience is a requirement.

Get married/have kids.

Being respectful.

Be disrespectful. Be bold. Take risks.

Staying in a committed relationship..in your 20’s you should be fucking everything in sight...

Sounds like the best way to be single for the rest of your life... piss away your 20's with frivolous relationships.

Lol.. huh?.. you have your 30’s . Get it out of your system so you have no regrets while you’re married . Piss away?.. lol.. you should be having fun..

You should be concerned about your emotional maturity and reputation a bit. If you are the kind of guy that won't allow themselves to be emotionally attached, you will never mature into someone that people want to have a relationship with. Word gets around, and besides that, it's written on your face and spelled out in your actions and you don't even know it.

Lol.. I’m happily married, have been for many years. Reason being , i had my fun and was tired of the girl to girl “relationship “ thing. So as a married man, i don’t have any more desire to be with other women. You should try your hand at another line of work, besides trying to be a shrink..lol

[deleted]

Lol..fuck them.... and i mean it literally.... haha

[deleted]

[deleted]

Shit, go to 8th grade so you don't end up like this guy.

What does this even mean? I feel like you just threw together some words and called it a sentence.

Not getting a six figure job by the time you're 25

You dating someone that tells you that they love you? They're full of it.

Who hurt you

the people in this thread that think there will still be jobs in 20 years are funny

What the fuck planet are you living on?

Most advice here is investing, health, relationships.

Even if there aren't any jobs why would any of these answers change?

I remember people saying the same thing 20 years ago...

I remember people saying the same thing 20 years ago...

Complaining for being given 'menial' tasks during internship like working the photocopier and getting signatures. "Why not use digital signature? It's not the 60's anymore!"

Marriage and kids before you have a career can seriously set you back in life. My take on it is don't have kids and don't get married ever because if you do, you can get divorced and have your kids taken from you. Honestly not worth it finacially or emotionally.

Tattoos....nothing against people who like tattoos and it's not true for all tattoos, but a lot of people I talk to regret the tattoos they get in their 20s. Things that they thought were cool and funny then, but did not stand the test of time and are now just dumb. If you get a tattoo in your 20s hopefully you still like it by the time you're 50.

Not ending themselves there.

not taking action.

also for a man: not talking to women AT LEAST 2 times a week.

What's wrong with not talking to women 2 times a week?

i find it really builds character in a man.

try going out to a club and talking to women you don't know for 2 nights... it will REALLY open your eyes and you will be less upset once rejection hits you.

i have literally been rejected in THE WORST ways... I'm better for it

What if you're 19 lol. I'd rather be focused on school and other things and then worry about that when I'm stable financially and in a good place ya feel?

true, but when will that be? when your 20? 25? god forbid 30?

your best time is to start NOW while you still have your youth man. I'm not talking going to club either, you can do it where ever and when ever...

the way I see it, society has told me i can only meet girls at 1) work 2) school 3) through friends 4) in a social club

1) i have never met anyone that was single enough for me to date or wasn't crazy

2) same as I

3) i don't have those type of friends. ( should probs get some)

4) i'm not in any social clubs where i could meet women.

so whats a poor boy to do?

[deleted]

i'm not one to be giving dating adive... but i'll give it a shot.

i say, one day just ask her out for a drink after work... see where things go from there...

but to tell you the truth man, I wouldn't shit where I eat.. meaning: there are PLENTY of other girls out there... you just need to find them that are NOT at the workplace you go to 8 hours a day for 5 days a week

Well actually I only work 4 hours a shift because it's a part time job and we're both 19 lol and I'm the only one in the workplace at her age
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Also I don't drink but I think maybe a coffee could be an equivalent xD?

i siad drink becuse it takes the edge off and is more... "datey" if that is even a word.

coffee could be seen as friends... then again it's 28 and it's a different ball game for me now ( i just deal with single divorced mums)

but hey just tell her you like her and you wanna hang out and do some shit together. you a teen still isn't that how it works?

Being indoctrinated by post secondary schooling and becoming a leftist.

You'll lose a lot of years that way.

What does this even mean? Can you expand on it, or is it just worthless rhetoric?

Maybe there is a different reason that educated people generally don't vote for Republicans...

You mean learning about things other than what your family/friends tell you?

Sex outside of marriage. (downvote button is just below. Go nuts.)

Thinking you found "the one". Or in my case, thinking I would never do better. Now I'm older and I know without a doubt I could do better, but I have to live with the choice a twenty year old made instead - it leads to bitterness, resentment, anger, suicidal thoughts, etc. I love my partner don't get me wrong, he's a good person, but I would rather remain single for ten years and then find the right person later in life if I could have a redo. Oh well. Life is about sacrifice, not happiness, in the end.

If you are so unhappy that you are suicidal, don't you think you should get a divorce? Source: got divorce, am x1000 happier

Yes you're right - I'm not even married actually. I tried to leave five times, but he's sort of...well my partner is really really smart, and every time I've tried to leave, he's presented so many logical arguments as to why it's crazy to leave that I break down and just stay. I actually think it's a good idea to stay in the moment, but it hardly takes more than a few days to realize I made the biggest mistake not to leave, again. And thus the cycle continues.

Sounds like you're in an abusive relationship. I have been there and know how hard it is to leave. The best thing to do is make the decision and prepare to leave without talking to them about it so you don't give them a chance to change your mind. Just make a plan with close friends/family where you can stay, pack up your stuff, and leave, then let him know (leave a note, or text, or email). Don't tell them where you're going to be staying. Try to cut off contact with them while you take the time to heal yourself, because talking to them gives them the chance to manipulate you into going back. It's extremely hard, but you can do it. There are so many good people out there who would love you, if you only allowed yourself that chance.

I've heard that from a lot of people - but he's not stopping me from leaving. Our couples conselor even asked me directly if he stops me from leaving, and I say the truth...he says I can go...I guess he just does such a good job at making me see it as a mistake, I second guess myself.

I will find a way out one day...

He's using mind tricks and manipulation to stop you from leaving. He's making you second guess yourself. That's emotional abuse. Many emotional/mental abusers actually get worse when in therapy because they are able to use the information gained in therapy to continue to manipulate others so well. You can find a way out, you just have to make the decision to leave and don't let him talk you out of it. Put one foot in front of the other. Walk out the front door. Or you can remain complacent and stay with him until you die. It's your life.

He's using mind tricks and manipulation to stop you from leaving.

That's what other people said too!! I stopped therapy because it was making me really upset, actually. I guess when you're so close to it, it doesn't feel like he's tricking me - and he swears he is not being manipulative, not tricking me - and he gets upset that people "put that idea" in my head when he's not around to defend himself. Sigh. I know you're right. It's just been a decade, it's so hard to leave because of that. But I will, because I really really don't want to leave in a body bag

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creepazoid.

Are you a teenager on Nickelodeon?

are you a fourteen year old from 2005 newgrounds?

That's exactly what he sounds like

Okay how about I use english. You're a fucking weirdo dude

Going to university. I'm sorry, I wanted more than anything to go and have the mystery of the Universe unveiled to me. I really did, but the institution's in shambles. The inmates are running the asylum. I couldn't have imagined a more shocking lack of quality of education, the only thing I ever cared about anyway. So much so that it wouldn't surprise me if employers, tired of getting a bunch of applicants that appear to not know what they should, start requiring a masters degree or extra training to get the job. I worry about an inflation of a bachelor's degree much like what happened to a high school degree, I feel it might soon get you nowhere other than food. On top of that, since less people are going, they are shamelessly squeezing what money they can out of us. More hoops and boundaries and fees every semester. It's too much money. It's too much debt and to a private bank because my parents made "too much money" to get federal loans. An authoritarian cancer, concerned only about diversity quotas and women and pronouns and hurt feelings has rotted out the heart of it. Keep your mouth shut if you have a different opinion. Don't pay thousands just to have a lunatic teacher break your balls and knock your points to nothing the whole semester. People should worry. Worry deeply about competent caretakers of the future and innovation. In my experience, and I'm always desperately listening, teaching the ability to critically think and adapt is rarely occurring. Go to trade school. Educate yourself. It's what I've been doing anyways. Save money and hope the bottom doesn't fall out. That's what I should've done. I'd be out if I wasn't so damn close to getting that meaningless piece of paper I wanted to be so proud of.

credit cards, don't use them.

Terrible advice since it seems you weren’t responsible

Not give me Reddit gold.

Not starting college right away. If you arent sure what you want to do for a career, at least go to community college and get an associates in liberal arts or sciences. Its better than nothing and will help tremendously in your early adulthood. Then once you have a better idea what you want to do it will be easier for you to continue your education since you wont be starting from scratch. Also remember to go online and look for grants, some are a pain to apply for but they are not loans so you do not need to repay and using as many grants as possible will minimize your debt.

Going to college after plan A fails. College was the biggest mistake and regret of my life. Don't drink the kool-aid kids, college is bullshit.