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It’s not exactly a prediction at this point, right? It’s an ongoing process, and it has been in motion for decades.

1913 approximately was the start, maybe before. You can also tell because a lot of the later constitutional amendments are completely contradictory (therefore illegal) to other pre-existing amendments. The US has been controlled by the enemy for a long time. Check out the Federal Register if you want to get really pissed off.

I’ve often argued that Woodrow Wilson is the worst president in US history

If I could pick one person in history to assassinate, it would be Wilson.

Along with everyone on Jekyll Island

What’s significant about Jekyll Island? I used to visit there all the time.

It's where JP Morgan, Rockefeller, Rothschild, and others (I don't know all the names and am not certain on the ones I believe were there) illegally created the Federal Reserve, after having sunk the Titanic to take out all dissenters. There's a book called "The Creature From Jekyll Island" all about it.

What we suffer through today is directly due to their actions in 1913. They also illegally created the contradictory 16th Amendment, which was in violation of preceding amendments, in order to steal tax dollars from Americans. Income tax in the US is completely illegal, but we pay it anyway. Your taxes do not fund the US government, they only make you pay them now to make you weak and keep you in line; they literally print money directly into their pockets, which devalues your money and creates a massive wealth gap and class division.

If you want to know what's probably gonna happen next in this sequence, check out the timeline of the Weimar Republic and notice how similar the sequence and conditions are to those we see now.

I used to be a caddie at Sea Island. Used to go out between Sea Island and Jekyll in that little channel and catch shrimp in the moonlight. Was a pretty place.

I'd love to hear any rebuttals you received.

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Can you sum up with these 3 were so bad? EDIT: Well, these 2 since you talked about Wilson in a post further down

Wilson allowed the creation of the Federal Reserve and 16th Amendment, which was and still is illegal by the preceding amendments. Yes, the taxes you pay each year are illegal by US law, and no foreign entity is allowed to issue currency as the Fed does anyway.

LBJ seems to have had Kennedy killed himself, it works out just too perfectly for him. The dude was shady, and there are other reasons aside from the "conspiracy theory"-esque one.

FDR is kind of a lot to explain and I'm also not very familiar with him. He did support China and was responsible for the New Deal which really screwed the entire country over, but that's the extent of my knowledge. Hated learning about FDR in high school, so boring.

FDR: Tried to pack the supreme court. New-Deal socialist programs. Ignored the 2-term precedent. Let Japan attack the USA to draw us into WW2. Ignored intel on concentration camps. Unabashed adulterer.

LBJ: Won election to the senate via fraudulent ballots. Under investigation for a fraud scheme with Billie Sol Estes BEFORE the JFK assassination. Most likely worked with CIA via Malcolm Wallace to kill JFK. Notorious racist who used civil rights legislation to garner votes.

Why is this getting down voted for providing factual information?!

Everything you posted is pretty easily verifiable other than the assertion that lbj worked alongside CIA in the assassination which was qualified with "most likely"

I have to say it's discouraging to see bullshit up voted and people trying to share info down voted.

I think it's part of the plan to drive all the good faith posters from even bothering.

Neither would have happened without Wilson

Why

Sedition act, signing the federal reserve act on Christmas Eve, and alcohol prohibition just to name a few of his larger issues. Few presidents have centralized power at a federal level as effectively as Wilson

Which pres made the CIA and then later wrote an op-ed about regretting it?

FDR

No, FDR did not create the CIA nor did he write and editorials after his presidency. FDR died in office a little less than a month before the German surrender, and a little less than 3 months before the Japanese surrender.

The CIA was created by the the National Security Act of 1947 which was signed by President Harry S Truman. Truman later wrote an op-ed about his regrets and the need to rein in the intelligence agencies in 1963, following the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he created a lot of government programs to finacially help people during one of the worst economic crises in history, no?

How was executive order 6102 beneficial to the people?

He allowed government to confiscate physical gold and criminalized it if you didn't turn it over for monopoly money.

Not long after this confiscation gold value skyrocketed.

But hey at least people got that monopoly money.

In other words people didn't believe in monopoly money as you point out with the financial crisis. So he forced Americans to prop up this trash we call the dollar by confiscating gold from "free" Americans. This gold our government now had was used as a payment to the paper money fed since it actually has value unlike the paper money it prints for us to use.

FDR did not create the CIA

In your defense, the only thing I know about that President is what you just said, and that was taught to me in public school. It seems we have simply been lied to, and personally I just never encountered anything about Woodrow Wilson in my adult life that made me want to look back into what I knew about him until this thread

Wilson and Reagan. Nixon too for good measure.

not to mention the guy indirectly caused ww2.

I 100% agree with that. He sold out all of us. What we are going through right now is thanks to his illegal and treasonous actions. Seems to me all presidents after have been just the same- against the interests of the American people.

only president to be a citizen of the confederacy

Once upon a time, I worked at a place that had a daily subscription to all the documents produced by the government. A big box of junk was delivered on a regular basis. It’s probably all online, at this point. I understand your point, though.

I get that every morning to my email... Anyone can sign up online to receive the Federal Register daily postings, as another commenter mentioned.

I’m sure it’s much simpler at this point, but I’m speaking of a time before the Internet and before email. We’d get all sorts of stuff delivered. The Federal Register was just one small part of it. There were also transcripts of congressional hearings and so on. A lot of stuff. It took up an entire Xerox box, every shipment. Anyway, part of my job every day was to read the Federal Register. I think most of the rest of it was just thrown out. Nobody had time to look at it all.

Oh, I have no doubt that was a massive box to comb through. Did time as a federal agency intern and got to see those massive arrivals too!

I think through the current Federal Register website people can even request the congressional hearing transcript links as well in their account set up. I just like to get this info out there as much as possible for people, because it is a resource most don't realize is available to them.

The US has been controlled by the enemy for a long time.

In your observations, who would you say that enemy is?

The bergsteins

Globalists and whoever keeps using Egyptian symbolism and freemason corner stones to build everything. Look at Washington DC. All freemasonic.

It was Sonic the Hedgehog. Free ma sonic

Why are freemasons the enemy? And Egyptians, or their symbols, are bad? And who are the globalists? Do they call themselves that, like a cute group name?

It's the World Wrestling Federation and everyone who has ever touched it

THIS MAN IS ENLIGHTENED AND HAS SEEN THE TRUTH!

Most freemasons are not the enemy, you'd be an absolute turkey to think that. But there is clubs within clubs, and the freemasons are the sheep hiding the wolf. You'll find that the top of the freemasons have different clubs where they seem to like to worship Lucifer.

UN, WEF etc etc basically groups that aim to control or influence the global world is their "cute" name.

Also United Nations (UN) also in consulted by a group called Lucis Trust. The person that made the company Lucis Trust also made "Lucifer Publishing Company" but then renamed the company to "Lucis Publishing Co" shortly after.

But if you can't distinguish Lucifer from Lucis then they've made a cute post saying that name comes from the respect the Bailey's had for the "great sacrifice" lucifer did for us.

Lucis Trust even talks about their arcane school which most definitely is for practicing and dipping your toes into magick.

TL;DR you have to be pretty damn ignorant not to see who the bad guys are. They are just rubbing it in your faces at this point.

Thank you for writing that out more clearly than I did. Sometimes I don't even know where to start with these people when they can't see what is right in front of them.

Whew, didn't need that rabbit hole but I went down it anyway. Everything you said seems to check out.

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What would the relevance of it being a fairytale be? If someone is raping my mother and killing my mother in the name of some made up person, it matters not to me if the made up person is real or not. Use some critical thinking.

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Do you always cherry pick examples to prove your weak points?

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We got a burn victim over here guys!

It doesn't matter if you think it's a fairytale.

The people in charge are taking it seriously, and they want to play for the bad guy.

Surely, that's bad whether or not you think lucifer is real.

lol this is r/conspiracy everything is lucifer and the freemasons and the illuminatus

Sometimes it's Bigfoot.

Ooh yeh and chupacabra too!

unpack hunt voracious touch station snobbish yoke like unused rob this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev

If someone subjugated their people and uses Egyptian symbols and then another seemingly unrelated culture does the same thing, and then another, and another, and another. Obviously evil people are using these symbols. Freemasons happen to have build all of Washington DC and they also use satanic symbols. You have to do some critical thinking and historical research.

You don't even know about the global governing bodies that are set up by people who like global governing bodies, also knows as globalists. Follow the money through the banking system and you will start to find these groups. They also use the same symbolism so it's easy to find.

Well, that's not entirely inaccurate. Strip away the Hollywood drama from that, and it's a bunch of rich, power-hungry narcissists that are making everything shitty.

The truth is boring and depressing, but we can fight the powers that be. Just don't get distracted by mysterious and seductive red herrings.

It is boring and depressing, but it's also a team effort.

Little did the oligarchs know that they had orchestrated their own downfall when they made the bread and circuses a subscription service...

Yeah it isn’t a shadowy cabal of dastardly villains. It’s rich people with similar goals doing things that will be mutually beneficial amongst their small group of elite wealth.

Wrong. It's clearly coordinated at the highest of levels. You are just being willfully ignorant because the truth is scary. You have no power.

Most are completely unaware of who those people are; you are speaking from the bias of being aware that they exist and knowing how they operate.

Wrong. It's clearly coordinated at the highest of levels. You are just being willfully ignorant because the truth is scary. You have no power.

It's very easy to absolve oneself of responsibility when the enemy is unknowable, all-powerful, and untouchable. That's the lazy route.

I never said the truth is not scary. The truth of the matter is immensely horrifying and daunting. But it's not tied up in a Hollywood script of rituals and cabals.

Rather, the evil we face is banal, tedious, and boring. There is no adventure or excitement in fighting it, as there would be taking up arms against some shadowy cult. That does not make the struggle an iota less difficult. Our task before us is astronomically difficult.

I'm sorry to have to tell you that the world is not as you think it is. It's actually worse.

I don't doubt there are negative effects of human society becoming a super structure of itself and that evil naturally prevails, I am not doubting that at all. I'm not even saying what we see today couldn't have come about naturally. What I am saying is there is clear evidence that events are being coordinated at the highest levels and they aren't one off events, they are generational. I can see it, other can see it, you cannot see it because you don't want to see it. There are people on this planet that have more money than all the countries combine. And someone like you should know this as even if it's not coordinated, if you run money simulations 1 person always ends up with 99% of the money. It's just how math and compound interest works.

We likely agree on 98% of what we're talking about. I am generally against authoritarianism and the consolidation of wealth and power. When you say these things are being coordinated at the highest level, I've known that for quite some time.

I believe that we can fight and overcome this to create a just and moral system that works for the good of the people. I'm aware I will not see the fruits of my labor, but that's just what it is.

There's not much more I have to say about that. You sound like a good person, and I hope you have a good day.

I honestly hope you are right.

I found this site today…. The mayors are the key to all of the initiatives

https://www.usmayors.org/

what symbols are satanic to be exact?

pentagram and pentagon

idk man I'm not about to start hating on geometry because of religion

What if the guy raping your mom is wearing a pentagram? Then would you start hating on geometry?

Yeah nah. The pentagram pre-dates satanism by a lot, but judging from your comment below I can see why you would associate it with evil.

The eye pre-dates Egyptians by a couple millennia but that didn't stop them from using it as a symbol. I fail to see your point.

The symbol is subjective to your experience with it. Where you see a pentagram and associate it with evil, I by way of a different experience, don't.

I think the hieroglyphs were trying to warn us, the hybrid depiction s, etc, show the result of unrestricted technological advancement

lol. globalists include Xi, Putin, MBS, Murdoch, the Kochs, Musk, Bezos, Thiel, Zuckerberg, etc.

btw, no one "keeps using" Egyptian symbols or free mason cornerstones. don't be ridiculous.

Yes Globalists include all those people you mentioned.

Yes they do keep using the Egyptian symbols.

ok well i haven't seen any symbols so idk what you're referring to.

Hmmm, let's see, I don't know maybe the pyramid? The eye of Horus (all seeing eye). Why is the pyramid on the dollar? United states has nothing to do with Egypt. Why do we have an all seeing eye on top of the pyramid?

Obelisks. Obelisks in these strange cities that are not part of the countries that surround them, City of London, District of Columbia (Washington DC, not a apart of America and has it's own constitution), Vatican City, etc etc. Why do these city states that operate independently from their surrounding respective governments have massive obelisks? They have nothing to do with Egypt.

That is just scratching the surface.

they say it's a symbol of strength and durability. it's the eye of God i think.

maybe bc they're popular? i wouldn't read too much into it.

of course not. but that's irrelevant.

1913 approximately was the start, maybe before.

Things were much better economically in the late 1910s and throught the twenties. Then the world was worse in the 1930s and early 1940s. Then we were better off in the late 1940s through around 1973. Then were were worse off for a few years. Then we were better off in the 1980s through 2001. Then thing were so-so for a few years. Then 2008 came and things were worse for for a few years. Then there was Covid and the post-Covid inflation.

Back in 1980 the unemployment rate was 8.5% and the inflation rate was 8.9%. This year the unemployment rate is 3.5% and the inflation rate is 5%.

Do you see a pattern in this? I sure don't. Things go up and down.

Were things better before 1913? Hell, no. The ups and downs of the economy were much more extreme in the 19th century.

You can also tell because a lot of the later constitutional amendments are completely contradictory (therefore illegal) to other pre-existing amendments.

That is the exact opposite of how the law works. Both in ordinary statute law and in Constitutional Amendments, the later ones override the earlier ones. The word amend means to change. The whole point of Constitutional Amendments is to change the Constitution.

You've offered the one rational, level-headed reply in this thread. They will never believe you or listen to reason, however, because they are trapped under several layers of logic-failure.

First, most people in this sub have to believe there's a plan. Be it evil or beneficent, there MUST be a design. Their minds simply can't accept that things happen by chance - that anything does. There has to be a structure - there has to be a "plan."

Second, this mode of thinking, combined with an obsession with seeing "connections" between unrelated events, lies at the core of the conspiratorial frame of mind. If a connection can't be found, they will force it, even if it takes a total fabrication to do so. They will literally just make shit up to make two things connect.

Thirdly, they think themselves "researchers", yet don't even know how to begin to distinguish between truth and bullshit. What they call research is really just reading opinions online and choosing to believe whatever content affirms their suspicions. Despite this, they'll proudly proclaim that "I do my OWN research!"

And lastly, there's the "I'M SPECIAL" factor. Conspiratorial people LOVE to think they know something that the rest of us are too stupid to discover. They have a deep need to be "in the know", because, you see, that makes them special. It's the worst form of "Main Character Syndrome." They even call people "NPC's" without a shred of irony lol

For them, and somewhat because of them, NOTHING can, or will ever be, simple, or true, or pure.

Someone calls them out on their BS? Some actor or musician gives an OK sign? Draws a triangle? Vote Democrat? "SATANIST!! PEDOPHILE!!!1!"

Challenge their hive-mind drivel? "SHEEP! NPC! BOT!"

There's only ONE way to be for those kind of assholes, and it doesn't fucking exist.

They call themselves "free-thinkers", yet fail to understand, on a fundamental level, that theirs is the type of mind that is most easily captured. Led. Herded. Swayed by charlatans.

To good, honest people, they're a sad type of crazy; but to grifters and con artists, the Donald Trumps and Alex Joneses of the world, they're a fucking goldmine.

In short, this place is filled with people suffering from a disastrous combination of unrelenting pride and terminal fucking gullibility.

It's not about aliens and contrails anymore; the fun shit like giant human skeletons and astral projection: It's about "sAtaNiSts and pEdOpHiLes" and slandering anyone they don't like with the most depraved, libelous accusations they can come up with.

Know what they'll say to all this?

"PrOjEcTiOn!!!"

Best comment I’ve read on this sub in a long time.

"Things go up and down."

Legislation, acts and executive orders that are drawn up impact that up and down movement. Which points out the flaw in your overall point that things just happen.

If things just happen then you wouldn't have individuals shorting specific sectors of the market leading up to the 2008. They saw a pattern or trend that people like yourself couldn't see...

Policy and our ignorance toward it play a major role in things going up and down.

I will admit it's much more comforting to think these things are just a coincidence of our "random" chaotic system but whether intentional or unintentional these things are manufactured through policy.

The pattern and trends are there just because you and the majority aren't aware doesn't mean these things are coincidence with no rhyme or reason.

Back in 1980 the unemployment rate was 8.5% and the inflation rate was 8.9%. This year the unemployment rate is 3.5% and the inflation rate is 5%.

If you think those numbers are accurate with homeless people currently taking over major cities I have some bad new for you.

I believe you mean the 20th century

No, things in the 19th century (1800-1899) had much more frequent and extreme ups and downs than after the Federal Reserve existed.

Ok I gotcha, I was wondering if that’s what you thinking. I read through it quickly so i may have messed up. Completely agree.

Just my opinion, but you can probably trace the beginnings of it back to The Enlightenment period.

Or the burning of Alexandria,or the selection of the books that be contained in the Christian Bible

Why the "Christian Bible"? Aren't the Jewish Tanakh or Sumerian texts older? Why stop at AD 90? Just curious?

My "or..., or" is meant to represent the fact that there are so many fo these moments

Creation of the fed was on the 23rd of December, 1913. and 110 years later here we stand, broken and destitute, many praying for external salvation yet find none; while those improving the inner temple, are escaping the bonds of mental slavery.

The march of tyranny must be prevented or at the very least slowed, to the point where we have enough time to rebuild the forces of good and righteousness, while repairing our connection with the universe that was severed by the negative forces that seek to control.

"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. "

Could not agree more!

which enemy?

I'd push it back to the end of the 19th century at least.

There was something called root reform which was our militaries transition into all out imperialism.

https://history.army.mil/documents/1901/Root-Ovr.htm

"The Root reform era, which encompassed the period between the Spanish-American War and World War I, saw vast changes in the entire fabric of the US Army. This reorientation of a largely frontier-based, Indian-fighting force to meet modern requirements started it on the path to becoming, eventually, the most powerful army on the globe. The reforms that Secretary Root sponsored and facilitated made this evolution possible. To his vision and willingness to think beyond the limits imposed by entrenched interests and practices, the Army of the twenty-first century is lastingly indebted."

My next one isn't as popular because even those who consider themselves aware take exceptions to people calling out our founders since our indoctrination program known as k-12 has done a very effective job keeping people unaware of our beginning.

Regardless you can push the start of this scam back to 1789 when many of our founders (not all but most) pushed for ratification (George Washington was pro ratification) and rendered the articles obsolete (small decentralized government).

You can also tell because this post was written in 1913

Not a prediction at all. Basically just describing the last 40 years of economic warfare by the ruling class and what it has done to the average person.

As far as collapses go they often start gradually and imperceptibly but end dramatically and abruptly after certain tipping points are reached. Think of it like the sinking of the Titanic which took 2hr40m to sink. It started slowly slipping under the water until the last 10 minutes when the ship broke in half and plunged straight to the bottom of the ocean.

"No, you're wrong! If there is someone out there trying to destroy our society, they would have done it then and there, not over the course of years! You must be an Alex Jones believer!"

Are you being sarcastic?

It's like that Simpsons episode where Bart has Milhouse watching his abandoned factory.

"It started falling over, and then it fell over."

People can't be expected to live on peanuts. I guess the employers will figure that out, eventually.

Don’t forget, something like 50% of the people in the world live on just a few dollars a day.

Do you disagree with my statement?

These things are always in flux. The economy evolves. Of course there’s a point where employers may see raising wages as advantageous. Once upon a time, the minimum wage was around $1. Today? No longer $1, obviously.

How much has it evolved in the last year?

In reality, things seem to be going downhill. And yet we hear day in day out from Administration sources how great things are.

That is not true. Less than a billion lives in that much poverty. Read The book “Factfullness”.

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We should send the Statue of Liberty back to France. They deserve it more than us right now.

They literally banned clothing

If slavery was anything to learn from they won’t care. It’s cheaper to just get another.

Why would they? Nobody does anything about it, nor can they really

They won't, that's my fear with 'universal basic income' You'll be kept from dying, maybe assigned something to do to not be 'one of those'. Maybe people will work at what they're good at or enjoy, but that'll be comodified as the virtue in the work, and very few with have a comfortable 'income' at all. Because well, they'll say you don't need it, just like you don't need full time work, the government pays for you.

There's always a catch-22 it seems.

Mass migration, automation, and AI remove much of labor's leverage. Pre-globalization, there was incentive to treat workers decently. Now there's incentive to convince them to eat bugs and mindfuck them constantly via pervasive propaganda.

"Thanks for set up your little nation, rube. Now it belongs to multinational corporations."

Too much doom and gloom for me. Lot of things have also gotten a lot better. People here are mostly very well off compared to world avarage, so it's harder to see the bigger picture. Yeah with progress comes lot of difficulties, but humans have always managed these. I would not write off human nature and it's will to change things.

Man reading this was the biggest bunch of bullshit ive ever read. OP is clearly depressed and just discovered what humanity has always been doing. At some point humans were in perfect ecological harmony.. obviously that's no longer the case. The only answer is, do we survive and expand into space or die out?

Space travel represents the ultimate slavery fuck that

Frontiers have always offered escape from the systems that enslave us. Radical self-reliance, troubles with communications and unlimited space.

Check out the song “the fine print” by Stupendium

Well i dont think humanity is going to reverse course and stop pouring concrete.. so.(i imagine space travel will be done by our AI, not actual humans. I see it supplanting us.)

Read “we are legion”

If humans can’t do it what’s the point?

We weren't always human.

It's called basic capatalism and it's an illusion created by the rich for the poor to make sure that they stay slaves.

As a provoking thought for you. How do you think the decline in the east block countries looked?

I'll help you. Exactly the same depressive decline.

So what’s the illusion? We don’t really have pure capitalism at this point, but enough of it remains to keep the system alive. Anyway, the only thing we seem to be hearing about lately are all the efforts currently underway to destroy it, with no real plan for a replacement.

Anytime that anyone criticizes the system we have in place now, and calls it capitalism: just take it as a given that the person doesn't know what capitalism is, much less how the system we have now works, much much less the terms that more accurately describe our current system.

What would you call it?

Corporatism, or fascism (as in, yes, really fascism, not 'everything I don't like is fascism', the system really does bear some features described in the original conception of the term; mainly, governments create a regulatory environment that promotes large corporation business activities to the exclusion of everything else, which enables large corporations to lobby governments to further that environment).

I tend to lean much more on corporatism, though, since the other term has been so corrupted by decades of people using it to mean any government action they didn't like.

I can see copyright/trademarks being the main cause for an environment where corporations thrive at the expense of others (the most recent one I can think of involves Netflix suing some content creator for using the trademark "Netflix and Chill" although there are definitely more apt/pertinent examples). How can regulations specifically enlarge a company? And how would that increase the lobbying power of said company?

Also, there remains the point that there is this clear demarcation between gov power and corporate power, it seems that we are far from the Italian flavor of corporatism but I'm open-minded towards an explanation for an American one. Though, I am hard pressed to be fully convinced that this is where we stand in the macro today.

How can regulations specifically enlarge a company?

Look up 'regulatory capture.'

Basically, regulatory environments will tend towards market situations that favor large businesses over small businesses, because the large businesses will have the extra money needed to navigate regulatory environments, while smaller firms just get streamrolled by regulations they didn't know about, or how to comply with. This is usually as a result of large businesses lobbying for the regulations, as well. For example, remember a few years ago when Facebook was asking questions along the lines of 'what if there were a regulator who determined what was a legitimate source was on the internet?'

The effect of regulatory capture increases the power of large businesses, because it squeezes smaller competitors out of the market, and a large portion of business that formerly went to smaller companies now goes to the large companies still in charge.

I mean I know of regulatory capture, but to think that it's as systemic as you seem to think makes me want to see why you think that in the first place. It seems to me that there is a vibrant discourse on every level when it comes to government actions/corporate actions.

NO DOUBT, if it's as ubiquitous as that then I'd agree with you, I just don't think we have a government that openly relays the interest of lobbying groups full blast. Otherwise we'd see a lot more consistency along the grape vine rather than the cacophony of opinions we have on the internet today (EPA Pruitt is a good example, he got eaten alive by his own for saying that climate change is not caused primarily by CO2, just the first example to come to mind).

As for the money aspect, it doesn't make sense since the same angel investors that go along with startups seem to make the "elite" class that would be able to lobby and influence gov officials. Unless you're saying that anyone with a garage and a produce farm should be able to open up their own store (which I don't think is a good idea).

There is also the idea that if big business is dictating to regulators what they should look into, what would stop them from colluding with their competitors? And how would this go undetected for so long?

Capitalism is exploitation, predicated on a purposed obfuscation(misrepresentation) of debt.

People should be uniting on the simple fact that its impossible for money to be "lent" into existence by a purported "banking system"(which is nothing but a modern day moneychanger)

Refinacing the artificial/falsified debts of the world to their natural/pre-multiplied(unexploited) state is our only legitimate solution.

"The responsibility for money creation would be placed with an independent agency that – unlike banks – would be non-profit, democratic, accountable, and transparent, so money would become a truly public good. A mere accounting system to keep track of our promissory notes."

"Capitalism" is actually just the individual ownership of property combined with the system of voluntary exchange. Its actual name is "the free market". "Capital" is just a good which can be leveraged to increase personal wealth.

There is no such thing as a free market when subject to interest on falsified/artificial debt.

Usury and free markets are mutually exclusive

"capitalism : 1 : a purposed lie, deception, or pretended goal which is impossible to its usually claimed means, and which contrary to intended connotation is mutually exclusive to truly free or private enterprise, yet in which it is said altogether: a.1) that the governing system is economic; b.1) that the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned; and c.1) that development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market; while on the contrary: a.2) the usual system of exploitation to which all are subject can only multiply artificial cost and dispossession upon both industry and its consumption, each of which therefore are even only temporarily possible because; b.2) the very purpose and means of the exploitation is to dispossess the subjects by an obligation to maintain a vital circulation in which they must perpetually re-borrow principal and interest until they succumb to terminal artificial indebtedness; b.3) the eventually complete dispossessions of which transfer even purported corporate ownership to perpetrators who produce nothing; c.2) with a concurrently escalating destruction of both markets and margins of solubility ultimately precluding any reinvestment, profit, or development at all; c.3) and which all the while precludes both proportionate return of investment and even the possibility of a truly free market, because from even the beginning the market must pay multiples of its own production for its own production until the escalation of their artificial indebtedness nullifies the entire power and opportunity for the market to consume" https://australia4mpe.com/glossary-of-terms/#capitalism

No.

Sorry. If you willfully take on debt, that is a system of voluntary exchange. So it still qualifies as part of the free market.

I didn't bother to read the rest of this post. Its to...schizophrenic? Its like you present an assertion and put numbers next to it to imply its part of some formal definition as if that is somehow supposed to impart legitimacy to it. But it just makes you look crazy.

Again, the free market, ie. "Capitalism" is the individual ownership of property under a system of voluntary exchange. Thats the actual definition.

Here, watch this four hour long video where TIK explains (with sources) the difference between socialism and "capitalism", and get back to me with a point by point cited refutation of his argument if you want to talk. If you cant manage that, im afraid youre not qualified to have the discussion. He'll refute any argument youre likely to being forth within the span of his video.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eCkyWBPaTC8&t=2841s&pp=ygUYVElMIG5hemlzIHdlcmUgc29jaWFsaXN0

Thanks.

Whoever contracts to fulfill a debt is ultimately the issuer of their promissory obligation, the obligation is theirs and would never even otherwise exist but for their willful commitment to fulfillment.

We, the people, create the money(principal only) when we issue promissory obligations.

The banking system merely publishes the evidence, or further representations, of our very own promissory obligations.

"What banks do when they make "loans" is to accept PROMISSORY NOTES in exchange for "credits" to the "borrowers" transaction account. Modern Money Mechanics, A Workbook on Bank Reserves and Deposit Expansion, by the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, Page 6"

The banking system(moneychanger) gives up no value (or, lawful consideration ??) that represents the "credit" they allegedly "loan" to any purported "borrower", which means the banking system(MONEYCHANGER) is a THIEF.

Its impossible to borrow money into existence. Printing "money", is not "lending", from prior legitimate possession (or representation of entitlement)

Im sorry but I asked for a cited point by point refutation of TIKs video in which he defines, with credible sources, the system of capitalism.

Please provide this rebuttal at your earliest convenience.

Thanks

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eCkyWBPaTC8&t=2841s&pp=ygUYVElMIG5hemlzIHdlcmUgc29jaWFsaXN0

Explain what lawful consideration(value) the banking system gives up when money is created?

Try to explain how a obviously fraudulent process(ie. lending new money into existence?) can result in a legitimate debt to the banking system.

Its impossible for legitimate debt to transpire without the banking system ever giving up commensurable consideration

Basically prove there is a "loan" which takes place(necessarily by proving/citing fact of legitimate consideration)

Insanity is when someone cant prove what value the bank gives up, yet irrationally insists the bank loans us that value

Im sorry but I asked for a cited point by point refutation of TIKs video in which he defines, with credible sources, the system of capitalism.

Please provide this rebuttal at your earliest convenience.

Thanks

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eCkyWBPaTC8&t=2841s&pp=ygUYVElMIG5hemlzIHdlcmUgc29jaWFsaXN0

But a return to sound money wouldn’t necessarily be incompatible with capitalism.

Hence bitcoin? Watch it become illegal.

You think socialism I'd the answer lol

I don't pick sides

Check out the latest ruling on not being able to claim student loan payments in bankruptcy. Lousy try and pick yourself up by your boot straps (sic) we’ll keep you down”

Capitalism is the individual ownership of the MOP and property functioning under a system of voluntary exchange of goods and services.

This is more in line with socialism, wherein you own little to nothing, the state controls your quality of life, the state is preeminent over family, kin group, community, religion, etc. your labor is not your own, but rather the property of the state.

Isn't that basically the entirety of the world you're explaining right there

The entire world is Socialist? No. China is Fascism LARPing as communism, most western countries are pseudo free-market AKA regulated markets with varying degrees of social safety nets, North Korea is a monarchy LARPing as socialism, and large swaths of Africa are essentially anarcho-capitalism or warlord fiefdoms.

I'd much rather see a system in which the working class owns the means of production, rather than a handful of capitalists.

I work for a living, so I admit to some preferential bias in this.

This is a distinction without a difference. There is no "class" restriction on whome can own MOP. As you can see in modern western countries. Class does not exist within the free market, there are only individuals. "Capitalist" is just an epithet for individuals who participate in voluntary exchange of goods and labor and who can own MOP as they deem fit.

I disagree, as there is a plainly observable difference between those who must work for a living and those who are able to regularly buy out entire corporations. You're inviting me to play poker when I saw the dealer stack the deck.

What you describe as capitalism is merely trade, which has existed for millennia. Capitalism specifically deals with ownership; not only the usage of that ownership for profit (in common terms, using money to make money), but also in the commoditization of ownership itself (i.e. stock markets).

When I say something like "I wish workers owned the means of production," I'm saying I wish our entire government, media, and economy weren't owned by a tiny handful of rich, power-hungry bastards.

Can I go broker myself some stocks of a company and call myself a capitalist? Of course I can, but I'd be delusional to imagine I was playing the same game as the likes of Gates, Buffett, Murdoch, Koch, etc.

Not only have they stacked the deck, they own the casino we're playing in. So when they tell me "You can win too, if only the market were a little more free!" then pardon me for being a little skeptical.

"What you describe as capitalism"

Well no, what Marx describes as capitalism. Its also what most socialists call capitalism. This is why I highlighted the difference, that the actual name for it is "the free market"

Yet, the free market allows for the individual ownership of capital, whereby it is given the pejorative appellation of "capitalism", which you indirectly noted, yourself

The idea of profit, is itself intrinsic to trade. If good A costs 4 to produce and the buyer values good A at 5, and this pays 5, both buyer and seller benefit. But cost is contingent on the medium of trade. Which renders its numerical quantity arbitrary and this, irrelevant. What matters is value, and value can only be attributed to the good buy the buyer.

When you say "I wish workers owned the means of production" you mean to say, you wish more people had the desire and ability to have their own businesses or to participate in coop. Nothing stops them from doing this, indeed, a corporation is a limited form of coop, since the ownership is disaggregated across shareholders, not owned by an individual.

I personally own stock in many companies, participating in a socialistic aspect of the economy, contributing my wealth in anticipation of an amenable ROI. I am an owner of part of those firms, one of many.

I wouldnt at all call you delusional to assume you are playing the same game as the magnates you mentioned. We have seem, time and again the rise of individuals from positions of relative poverty to the heights of economic power. Bezos is a shining example of this.

From this example and many others we can dispense with the idea that "the deck is stacked". Rather, its a skill issue. You are not a business magnate because you do not have the will and/or the capacity to be one. You are not a prominent leader in a coop for the same reason.

If thats what you want to be then I suggest you "git gud". 🤷🏾

It's been in motion forever, it's a description of life.

Here's the deal. They can suck my fucking dick.

Ha! True. Fuck em

AI virtual reality masturbation machine 3000 will suck your dick

We have this now.

Yeah, and that post was from a decade ago. Guess they nailed it.

This has been going on for a lot longer than a decade.

It has been going this way for decades already, hasn't it?

Slowly but surely.

With no end in sight.

There is no great awakening coming, no sudden change to the direction we're on.

Anybody saying otherwise is hooked on copium imho (and I've been saying this for years).

It isn't a popular opinion among most 'awake' / 'truth' subreddits and forums though.

It has been going this way for decades already, hasn't it?

Its been going this way since Nixon.

It's called capitalism

Man, 4chan people really nail it on the head sometimes. A slow-burn is likely more probable than a sudden catastrophe. Honestly, it feels like we've been slow-burning for about 20 years now.

More like since 1972

https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

so, what happened?

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I KNEW doge was bad!

Yeah all crypto is untrustworthy. Literally every single one. Federal Reserve is trying to kill us all

Wait, how does crypto=bad support the nation that the fed is trying to kill us? The fed doesn't control crypto. Hell, crypto was invented specifically to get away from the fed... To decentralize money.

Except Bitcoin, that shit is so expensive!

Other way around, plenty of cryptocurrencies actually work, it's an open question to what extent they're controlled by the same forces behind the federal reserve, but based on their behaviour, "not much" would be a reasonable interpretation for a lot of them. It's not in the interests of central banks that people can privately, directly transact with each other at volume, without intermediaries, in a currency the supply which they cannot inflate or tamper with, and transactions they cannot censor. Dozens of cryptocurrencies allow all of this.

By contrast, BTC is the worst cryptocurrency in existence by the above metrics, and all of these things can be arbitrarily tampered with on L2, which its architecture forces by artificially restricting L1.

BTC is just as vulnerable and fragile as the rest of them. It's only been made to seem as if it's a strong "decentralized" currency, unsinkable like the Titanic... It's an excellent concept, but the cryptocurrencies currently in existence are too heavily controlled by some sketchy people, who hold the majority of outstanding coins.

Which was a process in itself aswell? With many years of many little steps taken. For this outcome to ultimately had become a reality, if I'm not mistaken? And with it said many little steps taken in a broad time. Is saying it lightly. As some of these steps taken. We're actually some big deals and incredible things done.

Proof of violence?

Exactly. Sorry was off by one year.

some graphs are for 1972 so on some fronts you are correct

1908, actually. 72 was bad too.

Yeah, there were many bad milestones. Sinking of titanic, creation of the fed, stock market crash, great depression, 1959, 1964, 1971/1972, 1979, 1988, 1994, 9/11, 2008, 2016, 2020.

And lots of terrible events in between those 🤣.

Yep. And I didn't even include wars lol

You’ve gotta cook the frog slowly.

A live frog will just jump out. This is the dumbest redneck theory ever.

Then put the lid on

That's not part of the analogy????

You get the point

It’s crazy you don’t get the analogy with name as great as yours, intelligent _jacuzzi.

The analogy is stupid because it's presented as a fact . Well the fact is, the frog is smarter than our entire culture. Because we're not jumping out.

Do they usher in a digital currency without a catastrophe of some sort?

Nope they can't. They've also got the Restrict Act right now, similar to the Patriot Act. Last time these circumstances existed they blew up the World Trade Center. The act is currently extremely unpopular, so they'll have to do something to incentivize people.

They can’t what?

Implement a digital currency or cause a catastrophe?

implement without catastrophe

At this time, would you be ok with using CBDCs? Do you have any reason to? Nope, which is why they will create a reason for you to use them, providing no other alternative option.

Look into the Hegelian Dialectic. They also publicly hint at their plans if you know what to look for, because their beliefs tell them they have to. This may not make sense at first, but look at all the Simpsons episodes and tons of stuff in public media and see how often fiction becomes reality.

No, they will debut it. Put it out there. Then make using any other currency a real pain. People will naturally take the path of least resistance.

And they have just tested and proven this theory with Covid.

Do they have to? Everyone starts buying online, everyone starts using paypass/tap-and-go, their phone. Sure, maybe they show ID sometimes. Suddenly, maybe in the next generation, they say cash is obsolete and it's just poof, up in smoke, going away. Bring in your cash if you've got it, to get value plus 10%. You've had 2 years . They don't care, they've been online since their parents started using them for clout on TikTok. I mean, they know everything they do anyway? Privacy is a myth.

These things are already happening

Boil the Frog

Reminds me of the "doses and doses of socialism, until one day you wake up and find communism and have no idea how you got there" quote.

I think the quote is disputed but the meaning still has merit.

It's a gnarly site. If you can sift through the slide threads it's got some solid content. Get your 2 year mandatory lurking period in before posting

This was written 10 years ago. But pretty accurate

Eh i guess. Just reads like poorly plagiarized philosophy written by someone much smarter.

I'm pretty sure people who post things like that like the idea of knowing things, but have absolutely no idea how to go about learning things. So they cobble together some random, half remembered things they think they once heard but didn't really understand to begin with and this is the result. Dire yet vague warnings about THINGS.

Rome was a slow burn for 400 years, the last 200 were really bad

When you swing four thousand hammers one of them is likely to hit.

my perspective is probably skewed cuz i’m 20, but my perception is shit started going downhill around 2012, rly picked up around 2017.

I live in Europe,

in fact in one of the worst european countries in terms of living standards (for young people at least), Spain

You wouldn't believe how shitty everything is becoming. People with less than 30 with a house in property in almost a miracle, even paying mortgage. People without a job or accumulating short-term contracts of jobs that have nothing to do with their multiple graduate studies,... totally normal. People paying 2/3 of their salary in housing + gasoline and people working in 2 different jobs and barely paying bills... totally normal.

Life is becoming a piece of shit.

Life is regressing to the mean of what it was for billions of humans throughout history. The relative prosperity for the plebes of the mid to late 20th century is a historical anomaly that they don't want to happen again.

When the divide between the rich and the poor is wide enough, the commoners have less and less powers to fight back. That's the goal.

Why do they hate us so much, man?

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I dunno why monarchies still exist

The isolation caused by wealth, plus the psychological need to see us as inferior to justify them having so much while most have so little.

Maybe if we vote in this elderly, corporate big government establishment hack it’ll be different. After all he said our democracy is at risk and waves a flag

if you have a decent university degree, come to Switzerland. life is great here :)

Got to speak the language though

im here 8 years and only speak english

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What now? Europeans have those things.

europe has that in spades though

Me and my bf both work two jobs and still it’s a challenge to live comfortably. Yes we can afford what we need but other than that, we have to dip into our savings. The old days of people being able to enjoy life and have a social life like they did back in the 80s is just gone. It’s unaffordable. We just try to enjoy the simple luxuries

I agree with most of this except people will be told they are strong, beautiful, and brave, for accepting less and less everyday, while they implode with obesity and diabetes being stuffed with high fructose corn syrup and other shit additives they say help the environment

Thanks. I thought the same thing about what the people will be told. That's already typical at many (not all) workplaces.

Shalom.

Basically 'fat acceptance'.

All this bad stuff is just as good as broccoli and apples. I don't support diet culture by buying unprocessed food and a treadmill.

They will however support big pharma (ironically) and McDonald's/the fast+processed food industry. Probably the same people getting their money, just through a different pipeline.

That’s dark

Dark that people sat around a table and agreed to groom a society over decades with the ‘slow boil’ technique (like cooking a frog, slowly so he doesn’t notice the water boiling him) to create medieval serfs.

I described Blackrock/ Greystar as that way, but the fact this comment was written in 2013 and is so exact for life the past year, is poignant and depressing

Just remember, they didn't sit down together and agree to anything. They would kill each other if it meant more.

The problem is they all use similar means to get more and more, and since they control the levers of legislation, it perpetuates.

Wasn’t the boiled frog in that experiment lobotomized?

Oh! I didn’t realise it was an experiment, I just thought it was how the French cooked frogs, and a good analogy.. didn’t know there was a genuine experiment

I mean that’s already happened pretty much….

There was a time when I would have agreed wholeheartedly with this assessment, but now I would actually disagree completely.

Greg Carlwood made the offhand comment recently that, "Everything's been turned up to 11 lately. If They dialed the control and corruption back to, say, a seven, like it was in the 80's and 90's, we'd all just think things were fine like we did then."

Okay, so why not? Sure, it'd take them 50 or 100 years longer to get where They're going, but They've already been at it for centuries. Doesn't seem like that would be a problem. As it is, They've woken up people by the millions and tens of millions over just the last few years.

Is time running out on some clock They are looking at?

“Is time running out on some clock They are looking at?“

yes, I think it is.

The fossil fuel party is coming to an end.

The fossil fuel party brought itself down, when it could’ve just been a stepping stone to greater tech. Fucking selfish assholes.

Maybe they feel that they got us in a check mate. There is Nothing we can do so the illusion of freedom is no longer necessary. Either way I disagree with the assessment given by 4chan. There is a way out but not everyone will make it

COVID made them realize they have nothing to fear from the populace. They can do whatever they want. It's why things have accelerated so much since March 2020.

It's not the populace they have to worry about, it's losing their global hegemony to the BRICS nations. Losing the supremacy of the petrodollar. Supporting Ukraine against Russia is like the last gasp, but they will be isolated and lose in the end. The Jews also blew their chance to evacuate to China in the early 2000s, the Chinese didn't want them. They are realizing too late they destroyed themselves, so they are doing all they can while they still have the military, although that's depleting in quality as well.

You don’t understand that none of that matters anymore. It’s the wealthy that run things. The Brics nations, Ukraine, Russia, China, all those are to distract and hide the wealthiest that continue to prosper despite any events that seem so important. The western wealthy have ties to the Eastern wealthy. They do fear the populace. U.s.a. Population is catching on so the wealthy are going to take away their position of power in favor of another nation that had population that will be more compliant.

The Jews also blew their chance to evacuate to China in the early 2000s, the Chinese didn't want them

lol wat

Absolutely this thing should be survivable. Many of those often called "sheep" are in for the worst surprise of their lives. But yes I think you're right, they may have gotten too cocky, or it's possible there is another agenda being pursued that we can't see yet.

Many of us sheep do realize we are being led to the slaughter, but we have been fed acorns and fleeced often enough that don't know where to effectively pasture. Indeed, we see no alternative pasture, and we will continue to queue until the day is not for shearing but for muttoning.

That seems to be what it will take to wake up the country. People do nothing unless they are forced or coerced by fear, especially when it goes against their own interests. It is a lost cause trying to wake most people up.

I don't see much wakening around me, I mean people I know personally in real life.

With most people, you've got to look around very carefully. Like, you might notice with someone that despite all the propaganda and fear-mongering, even though they got vaxxed they somehow never got around to getting boosted.

If you expected something like, "OMG, I was wrong all this time!" you'll never see it, but if you we're looking at it from Their perspective you'd think, "Oh man, lost control of another one."

People only wake online they sleep irl

Agree, people are inherently followers.

Perhaps that's why they want to restrict the internet. The problem may in fact be simply information sharing and underestimating people. When we stop fighting each other and start looking at who's creating the division there will be problems. People give less and less fux about the television and spend more time just talking and debating each other.

True freedom though comes when you realize we don't really need a society. You don't need McDonald's. You don't need a television. You don't need anything from anyone. You're just another animal on this planet more than capable of living happily on your own. Society and technology are nice to have when they serve you and improve lives. When they only serve to make up the walls of your prison its time to tear down and try again.

I’m particularly fond of not dying from simple diseases or a simple infection or dental problem at 20.

I’d wager you and I are both still alive because of this society you don’t think you need

Your fear is you’re prison mate

I can understand if you didn't feel like reading the whole post but I covered this part in "when they serve you".

Then we have truly fallen as a species of we can't do the bare minimum of surviving that our predecessors did thousands of years ago. The "everyone only lived to 25/30" thing is a complete lie. They have found remains thousands of years old of our ancient ancestors who actually took care of disabled/injured/ill tribe members into old age. That was a better society that this one's despite its happy horseshit shiny electrical trappings, and one I would gladly return to. (I already live a very austere homesteading life, with primitive skills knowledge and practice, so I am putting my money where my mouth is in on this one, on a daily basis).

[deleted]

There’s billions of us because our invention and use of societies

Is time running out on some clock They are looking at?

The clock counting down to when ai powered robot dogs mounted with guns can overpower any amount of resistance.

Yeah I don't think it's going to continue on this slow burn like now at all. I think the slow burn is leading up to something massive. I've got a couple guesses, but nothing solid so far.

I think the slow burn is leading up to something massive.

Agreed, and COVID gave them the blueprint. It still blows my mind that COVID happened and that virtually all of the developed world went along with it. They know that fear is the ultimate weapon. If they can get people afraid for their lives, they can get away with anything.

I could see the "something massive" being nuclear strikes on several major cities or another pandemic, but this time a much deadlier one. It has to be something that scares the shit out of people. Climate change isn't it and neither is the ridiculous fake alien invasion thing. It has to be something people can see (which COVID was, as it was just deadly enough that almost everyone knows someone who died from it or got very sick from it).

So you agree covid was

deadly enough that almost everyone knows someone who died from it or got very sick from it).

...so why would it surprise you that virtually all of the developed world "went along with it"?

I hadn't thought of them nuking a city. Dang. Maybe even use, involve, or implicate a racist and/or pedophile group to make it even harder to resist the efforts to fight the "enemies".

Not gave it was planned.

I don't mean to plug Bitcoin and be a crypto bro, but it's the biggest threat to the status quo since the Gutenberg printing press. If people get out of government money it's going to crumble empires. The IMF is willing to bail out Argentina right now only if they take an anti crypto stance. It's sooo telling . If individuals protect their wealth from government inflation the war is on. We're heading for a serious, violent transition period. Protect your wealth and arm yourselves. And don't buy shit coins. If you don't like BTC buy monero.

There are going to be multiple digital currencies released in the next few years. It is the perfect time to loot the fuck out of the dollar. Devaluing the dollar makes mad profit and it helps encourage people into the next thing.

Eh, we're probably due for a manufactured war.

Is time running out on some clock They are looking at?

YES.

if left unchecked, technology like the internet and bitcoin will absolutely end their reign. they need to get everything locked up tight before that could happen.

I don't understand why dystopia speculation always involves crushing the human will, I don't believe that will happen. More like a scenario like we already have: a portion of the population will question the greed and a portion of the population will be oblivious. This also somehow assumes platforms like reddit, 4chan and social media will also no longer be a place to express yourself. It just doesn't add up.

Because enslaving the body is not the goal, anyone can physically control someone. It is the heart, the mind and the soul which is precious. Satan doesn't want you do do just one sim, Satan wants you to completely reject faith and dive headlong into sin.

that's it. you got it

everything makes sense when you accept that pure evil and pure goodness are forces, that fight for conquering the human heart (freedom)

That's the thing, I always feel like there's some tricky downside to most good. So you kinda have to decide on good and look for good regardless, in this imperfect world.

I mean, acting good is most times not adapting to this world, that's why in the Bible it says that the devil is the prince of this world. Evilness works better to adapt to a cruel world, but not always, because good people exist too.

I love how naive you are. I admit, your worldview is poetic.

well, it's more theological or philosophical than poetic, but thanks. I'm not naive, that's for sure.

once you discover certain things during some not so common experiences like OBEs or DMT breakthroughs.. you may change your mind about what's possible and what's plausible

I need to second what that other person said.

Breakthroughs achieved through OBE, DMT or other such substances tend to be rough and imperfect. I would highly recommend devoting yourself to the study of philosophy, physics, ethics, chemistry, astronomy and world/political history to broaden perspective, but even then, that's hardly enough.

Most people are anchored too securely to their pride and sense of ego to seriously educate themselves. Many that I've met who have broadened their perspectives through psychedelics still retain a good chunk of that pride and ego, though it's often dressed in false humility.

Well it's not philosophical, that's one of the main reasons why I am suggesting you are naive. I'm educated in academic philosophy at a high level. I don't completely disagree with taking the forces of good and evil more seriously now that you suggest it though. They are deeply rooted in our collective psychology when thinking as an individual with desires and willpower and thinking as a group with a robust history of religion and politics.

There are more things in Heaven and Earth, amutualravishment, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Oh, ok. It's like that. Well in that case, I have the perfect argument. There are more things going on on Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Right back at yeah. You're ignorant.

I almost agree with that, Ethnopharmacist but I pretty much have the neoplatonic view of evil - absense and/or corruption of the good. (I could be taking you too literally.)

The god/Satan concept is just another construct to keep you under control. Reject that crap and you'll think better.

No

All christians get one, so here ya go: Is your god real?

We need empathy and the truth. Faith is easily abused by deceivers.

It's already been crushed. We are already broken. Look around you. Look what they get away with. This is already the end game.

Yeah, it's not. You ask to many questions about the wrong thing, and they might be subtle at first, but when they don't have answers, you'll get banned and branded.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Online isn't a place to express yourself. Some of these bigger sites anyway.

You're expressing yourself right now. How do you fail to see this?

I don't. You fail to see the things i have expressed that have quickly got brigaded oh i'm sorry downvoted organically, or deleted outright.

It's ironic.

Edit: Also, it's well known that if people don't want you to see it, or for yours to be seen, the 'algorithm' isn't going to treat you fairly. The fact that you see most stuff, or most stuff doesn't appear to be interfered with (that you remember...) really means very little. Because there is likely stuff that you will NEVER see. Unless something gets leaked and seen before it can get - literally or figuratively - buried.

That's the current state of things for far too many people.

This was made clear as day in the past year. This is already my life now.

To hell with that. You will have a wife and kids, you will have something to be proud of, you will have your own land, and you will eat steak. Get this poisonous rhetoric out of your heads before it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

The hollow men is not about people who were dealing with the NWO precursors - it’s about people who made no decision in their lives and decided to be the “lukewarm” types who never committed to anything in their lives and were thus condemned to suffer in a world with nothing bc they chose to be nothing.

Not trying to be edgy or whatever, but it's really odd to me all the use of future tense in the image and in the title of this post. I don't see any part of that which doesn't already apply. It's not the future; it's already here in the present and is just going to continue along that way getting worse. Rome didn't collapse from a single or even a few particular events. It was a process that went on for centuries.

This was from 2013 but definitely already evident then

Not really for me. I work not even close to as hard as I used to but I make more money and I’ve had more time to spend with my family and friends and explore other possibilities. I don’t feel as time is running out or I care less about anything. Coming from poverty and a destructive upbringing to where I am now, everything is a blessing in some way or another. Perspective has changed for the better, even with all the “bad” going on.

Dude same.

2020 was the year where everything turned around for me.

I guess I went on what could be compared a “awakening” to another phase in life around the end of 2022. 2020-September 2022 we’re probably the worst years of my 25 year old span of life lol. Adapt or die scenarios, but I’ve truly never been happier as of now.

What happened? And what do you do that allows you to live so much better now?

Well, the money was a byproduct, and I don’t really (never hear honestly) follow social norms. I just do practical things, I avoided debt, I still have none, aside l from credit proactively use, I never had tuition, don’t have a degree, I willingly taught myself more about what are common problems adults face, credit, and basic fundamentals of economics while I was in high school. I learned about trauma and generational cycles and told myself, “I want my future generation to be better than me.” My parents were 15 and I have 3 younger brothers so you’d imagine this would accelerate my growth rather quickly lol also if you wanna do some serious work, psilocybin will do the trick😉

I hope the same for you friend.

complete opposite for me wtf lol

2020 and the years since have been the worst of my life, and I am not young.

I find joy in reading a good book.

Happiness is wealthy, I don’t make that much, but I’m almost there. Just an allocation of resources I suppose, I don’t own a home, but renting how I am is working for me and I don’t have as much debt as half of America, I did my best to avoid owing anyone anything up until this point.

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Semi truck driver, among a few other work in progress plans.

"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face. Forever."

Bloody love that song, have some poor gold 🥇

This is already happening, but for now it's being ignored because it's only happening to the poorest of people, so we wouldn't even know. The collapse of the US has been ongoing for a few years now, we are about to see the grand finale.

It will definitely continue to get worse, but I disagree that it will remain gradual- I believe they are trying to make us fearful and hostile towards each other with their economic actions, and there will be a sudden event used to initiate the next step in the process.

Personally, I think we can tell what's going to happen by looking at the timeline of the Weimar Republic, as it seems to be the exact same playbook. Other genocides were done similarly but with varying aspects, such as Holodomor.

Maybe they will mandate something that will violate a religious minority, could be Abrahmic or Hindu, could vary by region - pretext to genocide chosen religion or denomination - maybe also whatever race(s) is most associated with it.

and there will be a sudden event used to initiate the next step in the process.

Do you think they were hoping that Jan 6th was going to be the turning point? Their excuse to start really putting down the Iron First of order?

I do think they had hoped Jan 6 would be violent, and if it had been we'd probably be in a different situation right now- a worse one.

I think they test out small plans, like Jan 6, and if they don't get the response they wanted then they do another one- such as a mass shooting, political opponent arrest, or something to rile people up and hopefully elicit a reaction. It's pretty genius how they do it, but if you think about it it's not that hard and they're not that smart for doing it- it'd be easy to do if you were an evil asshole with control of the global financial system.

CBDCs are supposed to go into use in July, although who knows if they'll extend it. We currently have no incentive to use them, so I'm wondering if whatever it is will happen by then. My guess (based on nothing other than feeling) is at latest October something big will happen, such as financial/economic collapse and hyperinflation.

Luckily there's a hidden Pandora's box. A mix between the psychological shadow and DMT.

Depends on how desperate people get to find a soul really. But the negative propaganda towards psychedelics worked wonders. I had to overcome a lot of pride in order to take that head long dive. What happened?

I started speaking how I felt, knowing why people did what they did. In the end, the value people have for me is either just a face in their movie or a sack of shit in their way.

I rate this planet 1/10. Without the digital age and the effects it's had, 9/10.. But that's a real fantasy land. FYI, DMT killed any ability I had to drown myself in video games. Actually, I did that on my own now that I'm thinking about it.

Our society not only breeds Narcissism to its most extreme level, but actively encourages it, with some of the most successful people being narcissists who just cant resist the spotlight. Narcissism is the face of all forms of entertainment, but now anyone can be what we've come to call "Influencers". That leads to the problem where people either get caught up in the narcissism, or they give up digging deeper to real information. There's layers to educating yourself that you have to get past that have always been there but have been exaggerated by modern information technology. Behind the narcissists are the "sheep" who follow their various idols, then it's the conspiracy crowd who choose to base everything off lose ideas, things they've heard, and things they've made up. Once you get past these layers you start getting into the real information, which breaks down simply by groups of expertise who share their knowledge. In between that we have those who attempt to monetize information (your Thomas Edison/Elon Musk types).

The point I'm making is that DMT and other varying Psychedelics allow the mind to separate the Ego from the Id, and break free from this pointless cycle of narcissism or self-loathing that comes from being surrounded by narcissism. (with DMT being the strongest and most effective as it seems so far).

The people who see you as a face in their movie are "super narcissists" with what has now come to be known as "Main-Character Syndrome" where they don't even truly value your life beyond what they can gain from it because they view you as a real life "NPC" or "Extra". What happens to you isn't even a thought in their head unless they get pleasure from helping or hurting you. The ones that see you as a "sack of shit in their way" are the same type of people, except they've already decided that you have no value to forwarding their goals in any way, and often if they ever change their mind about you, its because they've discovered a new role you can play in their overall goals, but will drop you as soon as you no longer present value to them.

I'm by no means romanticizing one group over the other going forward, but I often wonder if the reason some smaller groups of society such as native tribes and small communities seem to connect better compared to large communities going all the way up to entire cultural societies is due to either the encouragement of psychedelics or the collective rejection of narcissism as a whole. Sure, there have been big wrongs done by small groups and big greats done by big societies; overall I think a good example of what I mean by this is when someone is murdered in one of these small communities it a big deal that's talked about for years, whereas in large societies there's just so many people that things like the most heinous of crimes get overlooked regularly with some never being investigated.

The larger the group, the harder it is to come to a collective agreement, and the easier it is to decide you are the only important person or to allow someone else to guide your moral compass. DMT is a good counter to this trend because it pushes for introspective thinking and empathetic feeling. the widespread adoption of psychedelics could be the saving grace of large cultures perverted by narcissism, but it would be the downfall of empires based on narcissistic, materialistic needs, which would be why its so highly restricted (not to be confused with dosage restrictions, which is important and it should be "restricted" to being used with proper guidance and education).

I see narcism now as a desperate grasp onto a facade/fantasy in order to hide their shadow they're too afraid to encounter. Thus they become imprisoned by the facade which makes shadow incorporation nearly impossible. It's the difference between those desperate to find themselves and those those who lead themselves to believe they're find just the way they are. A very misleading internal process.

Before I did DMT I was just a sliver of a person and I knew it. Masking my insecurities which were very simple and strung out on societies determined values. Like financial worth, sexual success, what have you. This made my shadow incorporation rather interesting to say the least.

Because prior I was too conscious of the barrier in my way of creating a true relationship in the aims of creating a family. The main problem plaguing my psyche at the time was my lack of being social which only happened in 2020. 5 months of socializing later, I did DMT and I took the head long dive.

I began to realize all the barriers in my way were the patterns people were molded to become. Which allowed me to freely express my empathy and desire for a true connection to another that I would've have done under normal circumstances. I met a woman who I still claim, three years later, was the female representation of myself. It allowed me to see how both my psyche was molded as well as hers. By witnessing what the environment we were in had done to us. I was aware of it, she wasn't.

It's strange because the moment I met her, I essentially "unconsciously" sent her on a path to run from her own shadow. Which is essentially like the cross brace of a marionette. Pretty girls are valuable objects in hell. She was deluded to believe the people around her cared for her. But still, after running into her a month ago, I can still see the effect meeting her had.

What a life. It was a curse of mine to be very analytical and in love with complex things earlier on. Once all of this happened. I lost my emotional attachment to things and people; which gave me free access to my mind and others. It's sort of a painful art learning psychology because it's always personal. Any emotional barrier that can't be spoken about is a sign of a narcissistic trait but under a guise or delusion of self-preservation. Think traumatic memories. Like myself openly talking about being touched in my sleep. I feel nothing in regards to it any more.

Fuck I love that song Comfortably Numb

It was never going to be a collapsed but a crumbling.

Short answer no.

Longer answer, we are increasingly co-creating this world with love or fear energy. That is, the world is responding more sensitively to the energy we put out.

Stop putting out fear. Start putting out love. "Simple as that" if you can get to the spiritual base of having profound "self-love" that actually comes from trusting source/the Universe/the Goddess/Creator/"God"/"Jesus"/whatever you call the high power.

It's not "trust evil has the most free will" but trust good actually has much more immense power.

How do I do this?

Look into 1. clearing chakras (read about them to see which strong or weak traits of yours are associated with different chakras, then take the recommended steps for balancing (or even clearing) those chakras).
2. timeline jumping

The end result of our current system

True freedom is spiritual freedom - Jesus is the way…

this happened long long ago

America is the ultimate Dog-Eat- Dog society

Ruthless-- unforgiving--predatory

and you spread your contamination to every corner of the globe

All the Rulers had to do was reward the most vicious in your society & the contamination spread like wildfire

Love thy Neighbour--turned to Beggar Thy Neighbour

You see yourselves as either Winners or Losers

You worship GOLD

You consider Poverty a crime

There's no shame in Poverty---only Poverty of Spirit

Which most of you showed with blind obedience to Govt rules during Lockdowns

That was the Covid Test--you were being tested for the Spirit of Resistance

They know you will only fight back when pushed too far

So they are testing our limits--seeing how much we can tolerate before push back

When they reach our limit of tolerance--they withdraw slightly--& you fall back from the fight & get lulled back into complacency until the next round

They will bribe you to assist them to subdue the rest--draw them back into the fold

The only answer is to reject their System outright

Walk Away & Stay Away

This is how I see the Great Reset panning out.

It's the frog in the slow boiling water method.

I would agree but there are too many 2030 target dates for things. They have to speed things up.

I was even reading about Saudis getting into sports and it's part of their own Project 2030 plan to diversify away from oil. Can't be a coincidence

Yeah man I keep hearing about 2030. Similarly, China has been throwing around 2027 for a while now about a potential reunification with Taiwan. Maybe that kicks off a BRICS v NATO war that will really put the clamps down and it will be 1984 irl?

I don’t disagree with the “frog boil” analogy, but I also think there is going to be another paradigm shifting event that will happen in the next few years on the level of what covid was.

I agree with Ricky

And after so much apocalyptic expectation... on top of it all, a fucking bore.

If you need some apocalypse, there are plenty of places to look. We have artisanal miners, sweatshop workers, millions in refugee camps and thousands of other smaller apocalypses that aren't even covered in the alternative media.

I dunno. I think the veil has been lifted on much. Also I am worried seeing the governments and scientists so hellbent (pun intended) on fulfilling biblical prophecies. I am not a Christian or Jew or Muslim but I am very uneasy with the number of prophecies that seem to be fulfilling in my lifetime.

Kowloons everywhere ?

I think AI and the digital reality is going to make it so convenient to not be a human that you can’t resist

for some maybe

If you’re on a phone right now, then you’ll understand why it will effect everyone…

i can put it down, go out for a walk with my dog and smoke a joint, i control my phone not the other way round. already deleted facebook, snap, insta, a year ago so reddit is next up. browsing socials just isn't the same as a few years ago, i mean how is it i get an anxious feeling in the pit of my stomach everytime i load up the app, i understand how it can be addictive for some but it just doesn't feel that rewarding for me i don't get the lil dopamine hit like i used to when i was on Instagram.

The future is here cunts

Boiling the frog looks like this to us:

"As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."

-Justice William O. Douglas

Nah fuck that. Refuse to comply, live your life, have your homies backs, and stockpile guns. Enough doomerism.

If you are over 35, that's probably your reality already, I know it's mine

Yeah, you can tell you're on to something based on the lack of upvotes you've gotten so far. We all know this is exactly what's going on.

One more reason for radical approach. If it comes to a point where people should start protesting, calling for a change, but they don't, then it's either that, or keep on living as slaves, even worse than slaves, I would say.

Like France currently is doing? They preposed adding a couple years before retiring.

Well, it's still unclear if it'll bear any effect in the end, even though I highly respect the will to defend their interests. But yeah, in general this is pretty much how they are doing it.

I mean, we've been seeing the progression for the worse for a few years already. Little by little we're losing our liberty and our wealth. I never doubted it was going to be in progression to avoid a rebellion.

Talking about technological distractions, this is why the WEF is so keen on the metaverse. They want us to live in the matrix.

Fear porn.

It is all well underway and (IMO) past the tipping point.

Depopulation (in slow motion via plummeting birthrates and promotion of reproduction free lifestyle), massive move towards urban collectivism and demobilization.

And nicely packaged up (at least here in the USA) as a red vs blue issue. It is far beyond that.

All of this is true, but they also need mega 'catalyzing' events to scare the sh*t out of people and make them beg for whatever it is they plan to implement. I suspect the next mega 'event' will be a series of cyber-attacks that will destabilize the internet for months on end and will make the masses beg for Digital ID and later CBDCs.

Can you imagine hundreds of millions of kids and adults worldwide unable to play their favorite video games or watch pornography? This would create more outrage than empty food shelves!

N. Korea/Kim Jong-Eun and 'right wing, neo-Nazi conspiracy theorists' would fit the bill PERFECTLY as the culprits for these series of attacks.

https://twitter.com/TimHinchliffe/status/1615857560879251458?s=20

Yep. Also, I’ve realized recently, last night actually, how much AI will factor into everything. It’s gonna be the reason we need digital IDs, because of the deepfakes and impersonation problem among others. It’s gonna be the thing that “saves” us from some of these events. Cyber attack certainly will work to allow them to parse the contents of the internet down enough to start over with a lot more control.

In general, I came here to look for someone posting your premise. There will be events that occur that hasten the arrival of different forms of control, on top of what the OP is referring to happening. Fake alien invasion has been at the top of the list for their end game for a long time I think. Maybe AI fights them for/with us or something like that.

It’s much more insidious than that honestly. Been in the works for decades. It’s really going to flip all at once, and then we’re all going to wonder how the f it happened.

1984 x brave new world x quantitative easing

This just looks like someone whose woken up from the “American dream”

This is the millennial’s manifesto.

Collapse coming be like the great depression with modern guns. Can see biological agents being used to control people

Woooagh were half way there

Future? How about right now!

Still not taking my guns

I mean... they can try... but they will have to confiscate the ammo first... right?

Yeah, alignes with agenda 2030. Slowly and when people notice too late.

Now, this is a good conspiracy post.

A part of me thinks that America was allowed to happen as a test, or almost a dare. The powerful were bored at the time and wanted a challenge, so set out to allow a rebellion and a free nation to start itself. They let freedom run in the blood for a couple generations and then started pulling the strings again, and the bet is how long it will take to reach serfdom again.

It was certainly a multiparty wager at one point sold by many of the 'founding fathers'

The scary thing is that eventually, technology is going to progress to the point that revolution and rebellion will be impossible. I mean, look at China. Imagine a revolution there with all the surveillance and Big Brother shit. Now imagine it in 20 years. It's never going to happen now without foreign intervention. And eventually, pretty much all world leaders will be united in this. Why rock the boat when you're all living like kings and ruling with iron fists?

They have already tested and proved their theory of this will work with Covid. Look at many just took what was told to them and jumped on board 100% - the ones who didn't were silenced, threatened with losing their jobs, etc.

If we didn't stand up against the massive limits of freedoms that were pressed on us during Covid then we won't with the next thing, and the next, and the next.

That has already happened.

Like what's happening now...

We’re already there, I’d say

So the plan was turning Americans into Chinese?

Only if you live in a city. Out here in the sticks we grow our own food, have our own animals. And will shoot any suits that try to take it.

we grow our own food, have our own animals

So did many people in East Palestine Ohio.

The suits don't have to come within firing distance, nowadays.

That does seem like they were sending a type of message.

Can y'all really take on the military?

It's better to go out in honor and dignity than live a life on your knees, scared.

The taliban did. Why do you think they want to disarm the public. Yes, an armed group of determined people can and have been able to maintain their way of life.

The taliban hardly maintaining some way of life other than basic warlordism.

I mean the taliban showed the British army, Americans and other nato countries up. 20 years later they have their own government back in power and their way of life. It’s not about the equipment or training it’s about the belief and spirit of the man. Look at what the taliban was using, crude IEDS and Kalashnikov rifles and RPGs and they were destroying armoured vehicles and wiping out soldiers.

Then there’s the zulus … the VC …

They maintained the way of life they wanted. Whether you or I think it’s backwards is irrelevant.

Where do you think most infantry come from?

"In absolute terms, the top five for recruitment in 2018 were California, Texas, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, and New York, which is reflective of their relatively large populations."

  • Council on Foreign Relations

Ok, now, you know how much rural life there is in all those places?

No…. You think some guy on a farm can stop a cruise missile or bunker buster?

This is such a dumb argument. Those things are for peer level conflict and glassing cites. They can't do that because they don't want to rule over radioactive ash. There's nothing to gain there. Fighter jets and tanks don't enforce curfews or search houses or arrest dissidents. People on the ground do. It's the only way. That's why the us military is so good at beating armies but has thus far never succeeded in putting down an insurgency.

Taliban, viet-cong, Zulu, Russian revolution. Where there’s a will, there’s a way.

Didn't the Zulu get their asses kicked?

I honestly have no idea. Just different technologies on the same battlefield is interesting.

They are still there and the british are not.

[deleted]

At Insandlwanda and Rorke's Drift sure not The British Army not even the invasion force.

Real shit examples really.

The Viet Cong and Taliban have entered the chat.

The VC are probably the most compelling example and even they weren't operating in a vacuum or able to continue the fight in a major way past the late 60s

If you thought he was talking about the future your not looking around buddy gg

They definitely play the long game.

The hacker who goes by the name of 4Chan strikes once again

Silly you, that guy is already talking about the present

We are literally already there right now

(April 24 2023)

Nah, it's already here.

It’s here sadly

It has started.

Sounds exactly like my life so far anyway.

The "Collapse" will occur as planned, as our debt-based economy cannot currently sustain itself indefinitely, as our faith-based currency devalues at rates growing exponentially, and our government knows it, which is why each year more and more of our rights are eroded, and crisis after crisis is created. The pattern started with Pearl Harbor, which was the architect of the model our government uses to push unpopular laws against the will the of the people.

9/11 was a second Pearl Harbor moment for the US, dragging us out of our isolationist mindsets -- its been objectively proven that our government was merely looking for reasons to get involved in the war but knew it couldn't convince the people that it was a good idea, so they allowed the attack at Pearl Harbor to happen, knowing well in advance that the Japanese were planning that attack.

Similarly it's been well documented that various departments of our government knew about the planned 9/11 attacks well before they occurred, but did nothing. All of a sudden we have the GWOT and the Patriot act, eroding our rights and freedoms with the promise of "security" from god knows what now.

Now we have the government wanting to further erode our freedoms and rights, wanting a Patriot Act for the digital age in the Restrict Act. They know that we don't want this, so they need to invent some big bad that they can use this act to protect us from it. It'll likely come in the form of a cyber attack on the US electric grid, the CISA and FBI have been warning about vulnerabilities in our infrastructure for years but the warnings have been conveniently buried in our media behind the various flavors of social and class warfare propaganda spewed by our politicians, and make no mistake, this isn't a Republican vs. Democrat fight, both sides are complicit and guilty in this. Our politicians are bought and paid for on both sides. They certainly don't care about me or you. They don't care who you vote for. They don't care about your gender identity or sexual preference. They don't care about the color of your skin, the content of your character, if you're a veteran or your religious preferences.

This act will pass, either in full in its current incarnation or in pieces as riders on unrelated bills. It's already been decided, now our government needs to either manufacture a villain for the Restrict Act to "prevent" or for one of our many enemies to strike.

America as we knew it is already dead, and our politicians are simply Weekend at Bernie's pretending to keep the corpse moving. The "Collapse" people fear is already occurring incrementally as OP showed , and people are now simply waking up to it. What we need to be afraid of is whatever the government cooks up to put people back to sleep.

9/11 was a second Pearl Harbor moment for the US, dragging us out of our isolationist mindsets

I really feel like this period was the last time that the United States was truly unified as a people. 2001-2007. Never seen the Country more patriotic, with "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" and "GOD BLESS AMERICA" bumper stickers/lawn signs everywhere.

Is that what it will take for us to come together again towards a common enemy? Another war/tragedy?

3 Years ago, I was really hoping that the COVID Pandemic would be that "unifying tragedy" to bring us together again.

...Seems it did the opposite.

COVID was different as it was an invisible threat with no easily identifiable single target to vilify. If it was some country, which was definitely not China, that was solely responsible for it you can bet we would be at war with that country right now, which is why I think our gov outside the executive branch ruthlessly crushed any thought that it was a state actor responsible for the pandemic.

Which was definitely not China. I've never even heard of a Wuhan lab. ^(I know Reddit is owned by China and would like to not be banned please.)

That's been going on for the last several decades.

Homie just describing 2008

Feudal serfs were almost uniformly close their families, highly religious, community oriented, capable survivalists, strong, competent, capable, intelligent individuals...

tired of the grind, I've been worked thru the pandemic without a break :(

Damn. That sounds pretty accurate to what’s actually happening.

As some one who lives in a country that's minimum wage has stayed the same for like a decade yet everything is constantly inflating in price, it's kinda like duh.

Of course no1 on the higher end of capitalism cares as they get to keep more money, they just don't realise that they are completely insignificant to higher money.

...

Into the blue again, after the moneys gone…

I think true AI created by computers with biological components will inflict misery and may even be a "beast" from Revelation.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/1Jpo7VzqrppFtqfJTl3Mrz?si=k3T-9kj1QAG7spRDI2vuYQ

That's already happened.

And continues.

https://www.usmayors.org/ this has a lot of the plans written down. I think the ICC linked from there too-I didn’t realize that there was an international code council to ensure the same setup is across the board. The land use ones are how they’ll get property it seems-if you don’t update your home to the latest code (now the gas stove ban is explained) and it’s insanely detailed -your property will be deemed dilapidated and seized.

I notice wasn't able to visit my family to see them on Easter because I had to work that is the reality we are living in.

By the sounds of it, we already experienced the collapse

We are living the dystopian future

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke 1770

We must form communities, creating a parallel society, to royaly fuck their plans. It can be done. It requires only the motivation to cooperate with your brothers and sisters in humanity.

I was terrified until the end when I read that it only applies to American men. Thank the gods

He's partially right. Many jobs will disappear and will be taken by robots or AI and you'll end up being dependant on the government to give you some sort of universal basic income, then you'll no longer be able to protest or have disident thinking because they'll take the credits from your card/chip. It's a brilliant executed perfect storm and freedom is the victim.

So basically the reality that we are already living in

Someone gets it.

More gold from this sub, I love it.

hah, seems like they haven't seen the debt, not just in the us but at a global level. Peak oil is here. Already we are seeing prices of some products triple, and this is just the start. They wanted covid to be continuous and deadly to allow for lockdowns and reduced demand, but it turned out to evolve less deadly than flu. Hyperinflation, collapse of the dollar, and energy scarcity around the corner.

I disagree on the peak oil, and nuclear can solve energy scarcity easily.

without thorium or breeders, it can only last like 80 years for whole world uranium based. And there are fission viability skeptics who argue the problems outweigh benefits.

There is no sink or swim. Instead the water is just shallow enough for your toes to touch.

So that means for the next 60 years of your miserable life you either learn to swim or oscillate between drowning and gasping for air.

That is worse than being dead.

There's a fellow by the name of John Michael Greer who has been predicting this for some time. He has two books on the subject, "Dark Age America" and "The Long Descent". His general thesis is that industrial civilization can only exist with access to highly abundant, easily recovered fossil fuels, and as our reserves of easily extracted fossil fuels dwindle we are looking at a slow descent, over the course of a few hundred years, into literally a return to agrarian feudalism with something like 90% of all present-day knowledge lost forever.

This has been already happening for the past ~70 years and is continuing to happen.

A couple hundred years ago a guy wrote a book describing this exactly this scenario and it's only, inevitable cure. The guy and book? Karl Marx - Das Capital

List a bunch obvious/current concerns and use them as "evidence" that supports your claim. Boom. People think you must be onto something! ...

I agree that there probably won't be a sudden collapse. But shifts in standards of living aren't a collapse, either... That's just how things have always gone. Shit changes...

The post was from 10 years ago.

Okay, and ?

It could have been 100 years ago, and us having this convo 90 years ago, and it would still appear just as "insightful" (probably moreso, considering 90 years ago was the great depression)

Again, shit changes. That's just how things go. He literally just listed shit that every generation worries about... Inflation is always a thing, standards always shift (and the older generation always thinks it's worse, even when its not) ...

That doesn't mean it's evidence of a collapse.

Without sounding like a glowie fed, how far will things have to go before there is genuine civil unrest across a majority of the population?

I understand that the post is specifically asserting that there won't be a "happening". But do you think we're at a stage in our society where another charismatic (Trump-like) leader could convince a large enough portion of the country to "take back their country"?

Hypothetically speaking, of course.

Theres absolutely no way of telling.. this is mere an observation and estimated projection from this persons experience maybe... doesnt help hes correct but everyone else thinks theyre right.

And yet one side seems to be the most anti union and anti minimum wage

Don't lose hope. Bullets will still penetrate their skulls

Post from 10 years ago. Spot on. We here now

This is the present.

That is such a terrifying thought...

That’s not the future, it’s happening right now in front of our eyes.

It’s not the future. It’s the present

Yeah late stage capitalism is the worst

The collapse already happened decades ago. It happened when they set up a system of debt, endless work, and systemic inequality.

Now it has become just more efficient thanks to technology.

So many things on that list are just blatantly pushing consumerism. "Get new clothes! Have a bigger house!" Funny how much that person has sucked down the consumerism propaganda.

they been pushing minimalism out the other side of their mouth for years

That's just late stage capitalism aka what's happening now. That's what all the politicians are trying so desperately to distract you from.

It's late stage corporateocracy. I hate when people insinuate that the US is somehow an example of how capitalism dosent work. Its an example of what happens when industry hijaks the government. The government is run solely by the corporations and lobbyists for the exclusive benefit of the corporations. Bailouts and government regulations that stifle competition are not capitalism.

Corporatism is probably more relevant than capitalism here

We need to make sure business and government stay separate. I honestly don't know how you could do this reliably, because people like money, and any company that gets big enough has enough money to lobby for their own interests.

Corporateocracy IS late-stage capitalism.

Without someone to kick the wealthy in the dick hard enough to break their increasing wealth - and therefore power - the capitalist will eventually amass enough power to buy out the government and write laws to further benefit themselves. The government has become just another piece of capital to be bought and sold.

There is exactly one fragile hope that capitalist society will exist forever without government checks and balances - that the megalomaniacal capitalist will hopefully screw themselves over and lose their wealth via competition.

.....but what happens when they're able to permanently render competition insigificant via sheer force of wealth?

That's why there's a 2nd ammendment. You just have to have a population with the balls to do something about it

The 2nd Amendment being used against the all-to-legal accumulation of private property and wealth?

That'll be a sight to fuckin' see.

“It is whatever we say it is”

Get a clue.

Its an example of what happens when industry hijaks the government.

So like, exactly what happens every time in any capitalist country?

Maybe if "corporateocracy" is what grows out of the soil of capitalism each and every fucking season, you might wanna start thinking about whats wrong with the soil?

Kinda like how brutal totalitarian dictatorships grow out of socialism every time? Maybe the problem isn't what system of government people let rule over them but the fact that people allow governments to become dominating over their lives because it seems convenient at first

America hasn't been truly capitalist since 1913 or earlier, prior to the creation of the Federal Reserve. You and I have never lived under true capitalism in your entire life, we are all just made to think we have. True capitalism only works in true republics, which we are not now due to "democracy", which seems more and more evil to me by the day.

Using the STATE to govern regulation of the free market is socialism, not capitalism.

This is silly. The labor market is bananas right now. You can work less and make more. Businesses are so desperate to hire people, especially in the trades. Dental hygienist, electrician, plumber, nurse, et cetera…. We are more connected than ever. Life span is longer than ever. There’s millions of square miles of land and housing for sale. Sure some laws suck, but this is still the land of opportunity. Sorry for being so optimistic.

You're delusional.

People are really depressed or something on here. It's sad seeing how many people hate their lives. I'm not the best off from an economic standpoint and I work a "highly valuable and respected job" in which I dont think I get compensated like I should. I still don't feel that way at all and I hope these people can grab ahold of something to help change their viewpoint

Doubtful bro. Community is everything and people are waking up faster than ever before. Love thy neighbor.

Props to this, a 4chan text posted in collapse that doesnt mention race at some point

This just sounds like getting old

Revelation says 1/4 of the world's population will be killed by war, famine, and pestilence/disease (real diseases from malnutrition, contaminated water, lack of medicines/antibiotics/hospital care, etc), but that the wealthy and powerful will do very well in the last days eating, drinking, marrying, and carrying on like everything is perfectly fine.

But the day and hour God removes his people out of harms way via the rapture, he will then commence his TERRIFYING 7 Trumpet and 7 Bowl Judgements on this wicked world and all the cowardly unbelievers.

Do an in-depth study of the 7 Trumpet and 7 Bowl Judgments + Armegeddon and you'll see just how decisive God's victory will be over this wicked world. Satan, his demons (the myriad 'gods' in other religions), and the wicked, cowardly, unbelieving people will be be utterly destroyed.

The collapse of the American empire and extreme capitalism does not signify the collapse of the world.

It’s the American dream that’s dead.

Jesus is coming soon. Repent and accept him as your Lord and Savior before it is too late.

This is the way of our Capitalism Overlords.

This is what modern communism leads to. Redistribute the wealth of the middle class. A little to the slobs (their words) and a lot to the .01%.

yes, but don't think there won't also be jolts and big moves to really shift the needle.

see JFK, 9/11, GFC 2008, Scamdemic.

Are we just saying 'nothing's next'? It hasn't worked like that before - there are excuses for why we have cameras and censorship and control, because of huge synchronised world 'events'.

Have ve vorgotten ze cyber attacks zat vill be far worse zan any pandemic?

The internet + cell phone networks being taken offline for a few weeks would cause almost immediate societal upheaval if not total collapse.

banks close, cards don't work, supplies run out, nothing moves.

we're going to need digital ID to stop it ever happening again!

They really do keep mentioning the cyber attacks

Yep america is done. Hopefully not the whole world live in that shit country

America not going through this alone bubbe

Europe and Asia allowed themselves to get locked the fuck down during COVID. They will be the first to fall.

Ok, but does anyone read Charles Olson? Let’s just be happy in not being happy, and never understand. Man should not have understanding when the stars are so big, and we are so small.

Fuck that shit, to quote a great movie:

"I don't have to tell you things are bad, everybody knows things are bad, it's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their jobs, the dollar buys a nickles worth, banks are going bust, shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter, punks are running wild in the streets and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do and there's no end to it."

"We know the air is unfit to breathe, our food is unfit to eat, so we sit while watching our TVs while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty three violent crimes as if that's the way things are supposed to be. We know things are bad, worse than bad they're crazy, it's as if everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore we sit in the house and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller and all we say is please at least leave us alone in our living rooms, let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel belted radio and I won't say anything just leave us alone."

"Well I'm not going to leave you alone, I want you to get mad!

It’s called growing up and getting old

I think that people will rise up and dismantle the GOP long before this happens. Give Americans a little credit, they won't put up with failed federalist (fascist) politicians forever. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Capitalism.

The thing you have an issue with is capitalism.

The fear-mongering post you shared is talking about what happens when capitalism.

They're going to shrink our houses and apartments?

The day governments take the Hong Kong style of living to the extreme. They will call them pods.

Just curious, looking at how real estate works in the US today, how would that work if implemented here? What happens to all the existing rented and owned property? Do they forcefully relegate people to Hong Kong style pods, or are the population and geographic areas it covers too large?

I think in the future they will force property owners to sell by hiking up taxes and introducing new “climate or carbon” taxes which makes individual homeownership unaffordable. Property owners will either be foreclosed on or sell to the bigger corporate rental companies that through legislation would not have to pay those taxes. Those who would not comply would be out in camps and would be seen from again…

They are already trying to change zoning to allow apartments everywhere. I didn't really get what that will mean until earlier today on another site where someone was showing pictures where this has already been going on for 20 yrs. All the single family homes had been knocked down and complexes have been built.

Went from mcmansions to mccondos to mcpods

It's done by soaking them with a hose and then letting them dry out in the sun.

Disagree with every word pretty much

How does this play out for someone prepared? Living off their stockpiles quietly while the neighbors around them succumb to the tyrannical elite. What's the endgame for the prepared? Do you earn an elevated position in the new world order by being well fed and healthy?

You would have to be careful since once the neighbors figure out you have supplies, they are going to gang up on you and try to take them.

What a joke 🖕🏻

If this scares you, you are weak

so the bible says all of this stuff at 2 Timothy 3. so this disaster has been written about for years.

I'll be somewhere else before this fully unfolds.

We could only be so lucky. I see Chinese labor camps in most of our futures.

Why does your account have no post history bub? Something to hide?

The American man? Glad I’m not an American man then

It’s scary because we are like decades into this already….9

Yeah well that's what happens when you based your entire political ideology around lies an Alzheimer's patient told your parents in the 1980s.

For the future debts.. buy bitcoin or another PoW currency.. im studying coding and these assets are more than a currency.. they are a network of real time security.. imagine that.. 4 Terahash/sec while https only resolve one.. and store in a file.. to easy to crack or hack

Not I

Isn't this how revolution starts?

Muricans need it more. They have never revolted against their ruling masters except the British. Not sure if it even counts.

Short answer? YES.

Money needs to be taken from the hands of government. Plain and simple. When you can steal the time of a population to fill the pockets of the elite, the result is what we are witnessing today. Time Theft. It is time to take back the money via a neutral commodity such as gold/bitcoin

If you choose to restrict your living and thinking to the confines of another's paradigm, of course you will never escape.

This is neither required nor inevitable.

What exactly do you think conservatives have been trying to conserve? Serfdom, monarchy, and oligarchy.

Brainwashed much, comrade?

Fucking wish. Audio for plotting for the Jan 6th plot just dropped.

Or most likely we will be fine. Inflation happens. This ain’t the first time won’t be the last time. Life goes in cycles

Doom and gloom BS probably being propagated from outside the west to destroy our morale.

It's already been destroyed. Ever hear of Yuri Bezmenov and his warnings for the West?

Yuri Bezmenov

I love that guy, I use his videos to scare the children.

in america sure, not in most other western nations though. they are moving in the opposite direction. as for USA, this is literally just capitalism working as intended..keep electing republicans into power and this is where america is heading.

After the black bag days of the Communism in USSR this is exactly what happened. 99% were all equally poor with zero chance of making it anywhere, and they all knew it.

And yet reddit thinks capitalism is the problem and communism is the solution.

...the post is a picture of capitalism.

(Points at capitalism)

"This is like communism"

...never gets less funny when yall do that.

Bitcoin will save us all

Fuck off

[deleted]

It's just a gulag without walls.

Is this some kind of "better dead than red" interpretation? And even if so, there's a specific amount of time you had to serve in gulag, after it's over, you're free to go.

What a fucking comment

[deleted]

America is a country that became a business on it's own, with the only intent of keeping the money rolling in, while it's citizens didn't even noticed how they became a bargaining chip of this business. If that's okay with you, then I wish you the best of luck.

Could you tell me how much good being a superior military power did it give you or your country? Instead of teaming up with other powerful countries, the US is making enemies of them and passing it as "the truth" to the public, while making actually "allied" countries, Europe, for example, it's puppets. America needed to learn how to become allies with other countries, instead of looking for business opportunities all over the globe while justifying it by an "outer threat".

Great reset, for America, for example would be a complete reconstruction of it's government establishments and a complete annihilation of CIA criminal cartel. As well as puting on trial Rothschild and Rockefeller families for all the things they were involved in and are involved in at the moment. Oh, and actually trying to establish genuine democracy wouldn't hurt.

I think we're here, lol

Idk I’m pretty happy and definitely have job security lol

But wait this already happened…

😔

Seems an extreme way to go about curbing that ego. Someone high on up is definitely following the age old adage "you better check your self before you wreck your self".

So basically a low income life in New Zealand now.

wake up everyday at 6am and work on yourself, you will be successful. You can make it happen in America.

"Jesse, what the f*ck are you talking about?" :D

No this is a post on 4chan

Will?

Or IS?

What website is that off of? Errowid? If I remember correctly?

That's the future we already experience under capitalism.

This is basically the premise of the book The Long Emergency

hey its not working workinghey its not working working

This is already the reality for many poor people across the globe.

The most important hour you will listen to today is here.

Asha Logos channel is a great inspiration for finding ways to steer ourselves away from the dangers ahead.

Thank you Reagan/Thatcher

hey its not working working

Welcome to the actual American dream... This has also been promoted overseas as a cultural imperialism.

Many are already there.

We’re watching it fall before our eyes surely..

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/12xzz6n/is_this_the_future_we_have_to_look_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

The frog in the boiling water.

It's been the case for however long I've been alive. So it could honestly just be more and more of these things in the years to come. Will become very disgusting indeed.

TLdR inflation and progress.

Fuck em at the end of the day and thru it all…we see you now

Not in China though eh?

They do not have a good situation there with their inverted population pyramid. They are in for as rough a time as anyone.

Life expectancy growing, more abundance, GDP up to 20 trillion from 1 trillion at the start of the century, massive infrastructure projects on the go…🤔

Remind me in 10 years.

Blame yourselves.

So all that is absolutely happening yeah. Also though we still have the opportunity to change our individual lives. Not only is the world getting worse but you now believe it is getting worse and have accepted that fact.

Yet for the elite the world is actually getting better. Destruction of the middle class is accelerating because we're now given the choice of what to become.

What I would ask of you is not how do we stop the rich from taking over the world... Instead I would ask why do we see it happening and blame them?

Your life will shrink until you’re living in a hole like Diogenes and then you’ll awaken to your miller lite nature

We are already well on the way.

Future??????

Thats the global future for the western world, not just America. It's all about America for you americans, even in negative scenarios. But yeah, that looks like the future for most of us in a nutshell. Wonder what the plans are for 3rd world countries. Slavery in one form or another i presume

Lol. Man ppl sure love this type of world. The just project this type of energy in hopes it happens. Why, cause a lot of these ppl have nothing going on for them. And due to that they want to burn the world. They will say anything to try to get everyone on that same level.

The poem referenced if anyone is interested:

The Hollow Men

Mistah Kurtz-he dead A penny for the Old Guy

                    I

We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar

Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;

Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death's other Kingdom
Remember us-if at all-not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.


                          II

Eyes I dare not meet in dreams
In death's dream kingdom
These do not appear:
There, the eyes are
Sunlight on a broken column
There, is a tree swinging
And voices are
In the wind's singing
More distant and more solemn
Than a fading star.

Let me be no nearer
In death's dream kingdom
Let me also wear
Such deliberate disguises
Rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves
In a field
Behaving as the wind behaves
No nearer-

Not that final meeting
In the twilight kingdom


                III

This is the dead land
This is cactus land
Here the stone images
Are raised, here they receive
The supplication of a dead man's hand
Under the twinkle of a fading star.

Is it like this
In death's other kingdom
Waking alone
At the hour when we are
Trembling with tenderness
Lips that would kiss
Form prayers to broken stone.


                  IV

The eyes are not here
There are no eyes here
In this valley of dying stars
In this hollow valley
This broken jaw of our lost kingdoms

In this last of meeting places
We grope together
And avoid speech
Gathered on this beach of the tumid river

Sightless, unless
The eyes reappear
As the perpetual star
Multifoliate rose
Of death's twilight kingdom
The hope only
Of empty men.


                        V

Here we go round the prickly pear
Prickly pear prickly pear
Here we go round the prickly pear
At five o'clock in the morning.

Between the idea
And the reality
Between the motion
And the act
Falls the Shadow
                                For Thine is the Kingdom

Between the conception
And the creation
Between the emotion
And the response
Falls the Shadow
                                Life is very long

Between the desire
And the spasm
Between the potency
And the existence
Between the essence
And the descent
Falls the Shadow
                                For Thine is the Kingdom

For Thine is
Life is
For Thine is the

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.

This is why the aristocrats who started the United States of America dream separated the state from the Church. The state belongs to the aristocrats and the wealthy in perpetuity and the Church to the poor. Their time will only come in the afterlife. Given the state of the ordinary man today, I would say we exceeded the expectations.

What kind of chat is that, and where can I find it?

In all honesty, holding onto clothes for longer is not at all a bad thing. Hell, even smaller homes might be an inspired thing to do given housing prices and the fact that comparable to other countries and cultures, americans take up an abnoxious amount of space for their living arangements.

And this is happening right now as we speak

No, it's not as long as we keep doing what most of us are doing and WAKE UP THE MASSES.

Project looking glass seen the outcome, time after time, again and again. The great awakening can't be stopped. The globalist will be tried for their crimes against humanity, and anyone that helped them will be tried as well.

The easiest way to accurately predict the future, is to describe the now.

We're already there

What kind of chat is this, where can I find it?

I think they started that decades ago…. We live this now

Op is dancing around the prickly pear

It's like I've been telling everyone, it's a "slow motion apocalypse." They're not going to do anything to shock people out of their normalcy bias, they're just going to bleed everyone dry slowly.

Yes, I have also heard of capitalism.

it may happen in more docile countries like the European countries but in America, shit will hit the fan and all bets are off.

People have forgotten how crazy Americans can be....after all, we CHOSE to fight the world's most powerful military to gain our freedom in the colonies...and by the grace of God, we won.

We have lived in good times for way too long..Bad times are just beginning...

Bad times make strong men.

Yes...an engineered and intentional decline of society...We have up until 2028 then that year and years after will be insufferable in comparison to today's society.

wait so are we going to have bread riots or are we going to devolve into robots that just watch anime on VR all day kind of a mixed message here

Not true. Only if you "accept" that, and this person speaks as if they are "resigned" to that "fate", in a very depresssing fashion.

The key is to define what YOUR life will be, and realize that yes - you actually can and do change it. And then take ACTION.

That will be our future IF we choose to accept it.

There is always a collapse, there’s never not been a collapse.

Feels like present day to me not “the future”

You had me until the point that say: American man. You know, americans, there are other countries in existence, with the same or worst situation. You are not that special as they told you. Or maybe, you are THAT special.

Since when did 4channers get good at writing?

The future is now

How do we not realize we're already there.

[deleted]

This was posted 10 years ago lol

Isn't some this happening now with the sheeple pushing it along.

Its been like that for years.us plebs shouldnt think to deep or have dreams /s

What can we really do tho ? It sounds helpless .

Facts. 100% this. There will be no revolution or people taking the streets

This is already happening and it will get worse day by day

If you want to know the future look to the past. There are plenty of examples of how collapse plays out. You can see the range of possibilities then compare and contrast with current trends.

This is a stretch, I hope this didn't cause too many Charlie Horses for folks reading it...

So do you prefer communism?

this may be a reality for some, but not all. my life has only gotten better, and i’m making the most money i’ve ever made. you either have survival skills or you don’t!

If it was only as bad as this describes it will be a cake walk. I fear that it is much worse.

It frustrates the hell out of me that we are just lying down and letting these evil fuckers walk all over us like this.

This sounds like a pretty grounded take on the collapse. But I wonder.

Is this the natural course of history or by insidious design?

Ever since the dawn of civilization. The masses laboring in the field. Providing material sacrifice to the priest class. That's basically what the rest of civilization is up to present day, but under a different name. The majority of people laboring away. The material sacrifice is now taxes. The priest class is the government and corporate elite.

Then you have the American experiment. The idea of free men able to determine for their selves their prosperity and happiness. In grand scheme of things, this experiment is still new. About 200 years compared to THOUSANDS of years that mankind has been under the feudal system. Makes you wonder if the American experiment is just that, an experiment, and we are reverting back to "natural" order of things. Perhaps our civilization hasn't truly evolved to the idealistic way the founding fathers envisioned.

The only other explanation is that our progress is being intentionally subverted by the powers that be. Which I can equally believe as possible.

This is already happening more or less. SARS cov 2 neurodegenerative disorders have left some people a shell of their former selves.

It was an incapacitation agent designed to more or less bring about the “collapse” described in this post.

One part is missing. The AI will compete with man for many spots, and then we (they) will have to compete with. And it is at this time that the upgrade of the man will be proposed. brain chip for x or y functions acquired by AI. I let you imagine the rest.

This is some doom-pilled shit.

I plan on finding love and viewing life as a gift, even if the world.is dystopian.

Good luck out there.

Was this written in the early stages of the internet bc were are here already were the left and rigth can't feel for one another while the rich litterally abuse it socially for advertising bc we are in a cyberpunk world

Is the post entirely wrong? No. But mentioning less marriage and less kids, two things I have NEVER wanted, is pretty subjective lol.

Incapable of feeling love or hate? Nah, maybe incapable of feeling love, but definitely capable of feeling and expressing hate.

Already there.

Aka the movie Wall-E

Thanks to our corrupt politicians.

This has been my life since I left college in 2008......

For me the years 2017/2018/2019 were amazing. It really felt like peak life back then where life was very eventful and diverse. Has not been the same since.

Sounds like INFLATION is here to stay on purpose!!!

People will work to make products or provide services, but business owners can only earn if those things or services are sold. And the only ones who will buy them are are the same people.

If more hours of work are needed, then that means more has to be made, but that also means buyers are expected to buy more, and those are the same workers.

If pay is decreased, then fewer products and services will be sold. If that happens, then business owners earn less and there will be fewer work hours, not more.

Amen

50% or more are already in that place. I know I am.

It's genius really.

Defeat the people without them knowing they're actually in battle.

I partly believe this, but with a caveat.

I think there will be some kind of an event that they use to justify forcing a global digital currency on us, with a total relinquishing of rights, micromanaging our lives etc. But they need to be in control of the event. Nothing that isn't manageable.

They can't allow society to degrade to the point that people become independent, but they need some type of event that scares people to the point of desperation.

Just big enough to make people accept NWO terms, but not big enough that people lose confidence in NWO managers.

COVID was a trial run of this concept in my opinion. How chaotic can things become and people still be subservient?

That's the question.

Well now I want to off myself, thanks.

Just America, then?

Well I’m there already I guess

1984

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