The USA is graciously relinquishing world leadership by educating a future of woke imbeciles and ignoring their talented. Well doneđ
The USA is graciously relinquishing world leadership by educating a future of woke imbeciles and ignoring their talented. Well doneđ
Capability isn't equitable so it gets no attention
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Affirmative action is an example of systemic racism.
Yep, you can't fight racism with more racism.
But the expert Dr Kendi told us to do EXACTLY that
You can't LEGISLATE morality. It is something that must be produced from inborn/internal sentiments. But I get your sarcasm, people are more often than not, too sheepish.
Oh, you can.
It is an actual example. There is no grey âbut my feelings were hurtâ or âthey look at me funny in the elevatorâ.
It is racism.
Indeed we live in the most sexist and racist society in the last decades, not only that, is the first time in decades, is officially supported and encouraged from all institutions.
systematic not systemic
âSystematic is the older and more common word; it most often describes something that is done according to a system or method. Systemic describes what relates to or affects an entire systemâ
Both are correct.
nope they are not both correct, they are context dependant.
systematic means that is the intentioned output of a process, the holocaust was systematic not systemic.
Systemic is appropriated from medical terminology for a false sense of legitimacy (as all Critical theory lingustic appropriations are) and just means present but does not conote intention. That is why it is said that even if there were no individual act of racism in a western country they can still be systemically racist because of different outcomes. You couldn't call that systematic.
if republicans would ban thesauruses from schools i would embolden it.
i dont understand what you are trying to communicate
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Literally all of them.
Not smart enough to put down black lesbian when filling out demographics data on the apps apparently. No one applying to college should put white male down in this age.
Should just put down any sexuality or put down whatever dumb pronoun that comes to mind, they can't prove anything else.
My grandpa is lesbian so that makes me quarter lesbianâŚ
Maternal? Or Paternal? Or Non-Binaral?
Well, my mom is my dad, so yes
I just learned in a DEI training at my company that if you put 'do not wish to share' or any variant similar, they default you to white male. I'm not sure if that's just my company or standard practice. In either event I work for a company that is a household name that handles a lot of data. So even if it is just my company, it likely impacts a lot of folks. So to your point, I will be a black lesbian from this point forward.
I donât put anything down if I donât have to. I refuse to play their silly games.
i was the same way, but it will automatically default you to white male in those scenarios - at least that was my understanding of the person explaining the data
Wow this is crazy to hear. Thanks for sharing
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I mean, if you want to lie, sure. Have you built anything?
Plenty. Engineer by trade
Which doesn't prove the point I was responding to but it is a complex set of issues.
I get the frustration to a degree. The US spent so long excluding and exploiting minorities and shutting the door on their success that it has created a severe sense of entitlement among white men. The attempts of society to level the playing field have been messy and janky and have left many feeling left out.
Maybe this kid didn't get in for good reasons and maybe for bad. It's unfair to lose when you have higher merits cuz that rich kid is a legacy and you aren't.
It's unfair to lose because of your race, even if that other person who got it is as good.
It's also true that the majority of people are rejected from the IVY league.
I work in finance and it's definitely a changing environment but I have never looked at a minority as less capable or treated them as a diversity hire. That is frankly racist and sexist and stupid. I have looked down at nepotism.
This is the truth here
Not unlucky, colleges have to hit those minority points. The dude is a stellar student but doesnât have the right skin color for those colleges. #racism
Just claim to have 1/1024 native american ancestry. Then identify as a woman. Then re-identify once in.
Just put that You are non-binary, and write about being discriminated. Easy peasy.
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No such thing as systemic racism. Read a book
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I can say the same thing about your previous comment. And thereâs a whole lot of non-white Americans who would agree with me. Itâs not my job to educate you. Youâre on a smart phone. If you want to believe people are victims or privileged bc of their skin color, then that makes you racist
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The racism is disgusting
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It's "our turn"
White students make up 41% of the Harvard class that was just admitted. Itâs odd that you have so much vitriol for certain students but not others who were admitted.
Over 15% of Ivy admits are legacies. Strange you are ranting about skin color and not legacy admissions. Gee I wonder whyâŚ
71% of the nationâs population, but only 41% of student body. ^ that exact logic has historically been used to justify the claim that social groups are being discriminated against in things like job acceptance.
I dislike legacies as well, and itâs part of the same problem: admittance is not based as much on merit as much as it should be. Many meaningful jobs already donât care if you went to a fancy school as they shouldnât, so they seem to be moving more and more towards purely fraternity for wealthy and powerful people to network rather than institutions of higher learning.
Plenty of exposure online how most Ivy League schools are overwhelmingly students just buying notes and paying people to write papers. Surely not everyone, but a high enough percentage that credibility is waning quickly.
đđ... Very well said.
White students make up 41% of the Harvard class that was just admitted.
As another commenter said, about 70% of the population is white, so that is far from "representative". You're defeating your own point. However, I'd add on to that, how many of that 41% are straight white "cis" men vs how many are women, gay/lesbian, or trans? Race isn't the only metric used in these identity politics driven admissions.
I see no issue with legacy admissions. It makes sense. A kid from a highly educated family is much more likely to be a great student. Also, most of those legacy admissions usually involve their alumni parents making significant financial contributions to the school. Harvard is a private school. They have to get their money somewhere. When an alumni is willing to buy you a new sport complex, library, or whatever in exchange for allowing their child to attend, it would be stupid for a private school to pass that up. Welcome to the real world. Nothing is free.
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âBirthrightâ
Ironic since someone elseâs âbirthrightâ (being born in a certain identity group) is probably why he didnât get accepted.
Why do legacy admits not bother you the same way black kids getting in do?
They do? Why do you think they wouldnât?
Because it would fit their outrage.
Did the original commentator say they didnât? Seems like youâre making a simple fallacy friend. They could be upset at both?
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Defending institutions that accept students based on race and not Merritt alone is a weird hill to die on dude.
Youâre last paragraph looks very anti Asian. Asians are a very small ethnic group in America but get into the top universities much higher compared to other races. You must hate that too
Asian students sued Harvard over discrimination brought on by allowing less qualified students in to fit a diversity quota. Affirmative Action. Asians in general are excluded from the entire POC conversation because they disprove the nonsense. Funny they out perform every demographic. They have over 90% 2 parent home. Wonder if that correlates.
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Why do you think Iâm Jewish?
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Love that you're just openly anti-semitic, kudos for being completely unashamed.
Where do I air racial grieviences? A almost never mention race in any of my comments. The very rare occasion I do is just to point out a double standard or obvious pandering. In fact I almost never comment on this sub either. Or are you just making stuff up to make yourself look better? Iâd say probably projection. You obviously didnât go through my comments.
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Discrimination lawsuit? How do you get a 5 GPA and is a 35 on the ACT a good thing? I don't remember.
36 is the highest so he's in the like 99th percentile, maybe higher
Jesus.
I got a 32 and it was top 2% so a 35 is crazy good.
Since itâs statistically impossible to be in the 100th percentile, a 35 would probably be somewhere in the 95th-98th percentile.
By higher I meant 99.5% or something similar
Not impossible, just improbable. You would need to hold the absolute top score in a given ranking to qualify. Everyone below you would then be less than 100th percentile.
Someone said their 32 was in the 98th percentile so a 35 has got to be 99.8 or something
Anything above 30 is considered very good.
Wow.
might have shit extra curriculars but still wouldn't explain being rejected by all of them if those numbers are true
Second half of the video in the top left says he was class vice president
Not sure about his school, but at mine you could get a 4.0 if you aced all your regular classes, and the 5 would only be available from aceing a load of advanced placement or college prep classes
Because there are thousands of other people who apply who have the same marks and donât get in and hindered a that do.
its only discrimination if heâs BIPOC LGBTQAILMNOP+ its not possible to be discriminatory towards white people!
Oh yes I can hear the whining now
AP classes on the GPA
I had higher stats than this guy and got the same result đ. I did at least get into one good school tho
I just read that 6 is the highest, so it's effectively a 3.4 GPA? Is that really the 99th percentile?
Max GPA:
Regular class: 4.0 PreAP: 4.5 AP: 5.0
Not every class can be an AP class. Gen eds donât have PreAP or AP available so 4.0 is the highest possible GPA for those classes. Never heard of a 6.0 being possible. High 4.X is as high as I was aware it could go and thatâs only if you aced every class and took every AP or PreAP course you could.
That's where I'm curious. Because I always knew 4 to be the highest. So it depends on the area I guess.
depends on the scale the school uses. But 4.0 scale is most common, so people will usually convert to that scale if they use a different one.
His application credentials are matched by many others applying.
Black students get in with far lower credentials.
Shhh. Not supposed to say that.
Sorry, lemme try again. Staff at Harvard, Yale, and other prestigious universities hate black people innately due to their institutional racism, and take extra measures to ensure that BIPOC do not enter their halls.
True, and whites get in with lower credentials than Asians.
Yes. A whole 7 people. Many many
Harvard Admissions
The attorneys noted that, of the 26,000 American applicants to the Class of 2019, roughly 3,500 had perfect SAT math scores, 2,700 had perfect SAT verbal scores, and nearly 1,000 earned a perfect overall score on the SAT or ACT. Typically, admitted Harvard classes number around 1,700 students.
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/10/22/asian-american-admit-sat-scores/
He applied to more than just Harvard. Harvard admits 1700 people, that doesnât say anything about all 1,000 people applying to Harvard. Your argument fails to take into account his GPA (which being well above a 4.0 implies many AP courses). He was also First in his class as well as student body VP. This combination of factors is not so common.
Harvard admits only 4.7% of applicants. That application pool of 31-25,000 students averages a 4.18 GPA (on a 4.0 scale) and includes unaccepted legacies that likely drop the average to that low number.
There are over 21,000 high schools in America. Almost all have a top student, a President and a Vice President. Many also have very smart athletes or great students also highly accomplished in the arts. Harvard has to rebuild teams in multiple sport each year.
Heâs not unlucky, heâs white
Exactly. What is everyone freaking out about? He just have to go to the bank and cash in his white privilege???? Come on guys.
Thatâs not exactly what I meant but sure go off
I am joking brother
Everybody knows ATMs are just free money machines for white people. How else do you think inflation works?
Letâs take your logic up a notch. A debutante gets violated and is expressing her experience. Assailant attacked her due to her privilege.
âMuh sheâs not unlucky to be a debutante.â
Also the skyâs fucking blue.
I feel like youâre misunderstanding what I said
I get you, I think you mean the reason why he's getting rejected is because he's white, but maybe the joke OP was making was that he's unlucky to be white, which is why he's getting rejected.
Valid
There are 20,469 high schools in the US, and roughly 1500-2000 freshman spots in each of the 8 Ivy League schools in this video. So there aren't actually enough Ivy League spots for every valedictorian in the country.
But it's also true that he would have probably been admitted if he had more desirable characteristics at birth.
Which is itself purely a matter of luck.
Seems pretty unlucky to me.
Idc what anybody says, this is unfair. And racist.
There is nowhere near enough information to say that. It's very surprising. Affirmative action almost certainly played a part. BUT, maybe his personal essay was shit. Maybe his letters of recommendation weren't well-written. maybe he did almost no extracurriculars.
Fair enough. There could be other reasons for not being accepted. But every single ivy league school rejecting someone with those scores and that GPA sounds fishy. Also, students who plan to get into ivy know what it takes and prepare ahead of time by doing the extracurriculars. And itâs hard to imagine him not writing a good essay if heâs in all AP classes (thatâs how his gpa is over 4.0). I admit Racist might be a reach but to me thereâs a very anti white trend that doesnât seem fair to me. I guess thatâs influencing my take.
I agree, affirmative action is legalized discrimination against Asian and White people (particularly Asians). But it's practically impossible to tell how much it plays into 1 specific application. Hopefully supreme court makes it illegal, as expected.
I think itâs bad luck, the schools donât share notes and collude. Heâs obviously planning on going to college and knows how to apply so I doubt his application was lacking. You can sit at a blackjack table for an hour and lose every hand, statically unlikely but possible.
You shouldnât need extracurriculars to go to MIT with educational credentials like those. Because lord knows for most MIT majors, outside hobbies are a weakness.
I've heard JP say something along the lines of "Most of the kids I worked with at Harvard weren't just top-notch students, they were great at at least one other thing", so I disagree.
I specified MIT because JBP also says âthe top engineers in the world are the best because they are so obsessively interested in thingsâ, or something to similar effect.
True, but then they should have extracurriculars related to engineering. I'm sure MIT gives a lot of credence to high-level achievement in robotics clubs, building software projects, etc...
Going to state
Thatâs insane
I didnât know you could get higher than a 4.0 gpa lol well lucky for him those colleges are scams unless itâs a scholarship
I think AP credits can be worth more than 4.0
Yes. PreAP is 4.5 AP is 5.0
Still not sure how this guy got a 5.09 though.
Thereâs the WP (White Priv) add-on as well, donât forget that
I jest
These days, a lot of high schools will give out weighted GPAs. This means that students who take honors or AP courses get a slight boost to their GPA, regardless of their grade in each course. So, ultimately, many GPAs can go above a 4.0.
At least he's not asian; denial letter would've probably come with a restraining order.
20$ says they will all regret It one day.
They will, but unfortunately we'll all be regretting it too. Have you seen Idiocracy?
Yes, I went outside yesterday. I read Reddit too, so it was a double feature
đđ
Iâm ded đ
all of them? negative.
All this does is make Ivy League schools less prestigious.
Here on the west coast we roll our eyes at every one of those country clubs including Stanford
Caltech is still holding on IMO
FWIW half those werenât Ivys.
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This is such a sweet comment.
I think that is exactly what the admissions officers thought when they held the door open for everyone but him.
Life is rejecting him in this video.
Academia is not real life. I'd bet a fair amount of money that a kid that can pull off a 35 ACT and 5.09 GPA will be as successful as many of the people that go to an ivy league school. If he applies the hard work and intellect it took to achieve that to just about anything else, he'll be highly successful at it, even without some identity politics driven school admitting him.
I agree that there are other paths to success, but what happened to him is still fucked up.
Academia is not real life.
Yeah I used to tell myself this too until everyone who disagreed with the academics started getting fired, debanked, censored, smeared by the media, forced to undergo unconscious bias and racial sensitivity training, and so on.
What the "They'll learn when the real world bites them in the ass" crowd never expected was once they left college and hijacked every institution under the sun, they'd be able to build social, legal, and political bubbles around themselves and force that on everyone else.
So yeah, in many of the worst ways, the problems with academia is becoming real life.
Ivy leagues are creating their own downfall. As they become less meritocratic, their graduates will become less desirable. So the very reason he didn't get in is the reason it really won't matter in the long run.
And he'll still be able to go to a very selective school if those numbers are true.
I like your user name
that's literally what they said about me. Now see what I've become.... dear lord, what have I become.
Seriously though, he could probably do alright if he found a way to move to florida and start a business.
This comment is so manic, itâs my favorite
Name checks out.
Tbh, it's probably for the best... None of these schools are worth anything anymore.
Anyone who is looking to hire, I'd suggest avoiding anyone from these schools as they'll come with a scrambled brain and emotional baggage.
If you get into Harvard or Yale you have huge advantages for the rest of your life.
Not for long... https://twitter.com/stormrobinson/status/1644007298027728897?s=20
Unfortunately success is much more about who you know than what you know. The amount of money and therefore power connected to these schools is unrivaled. Due to the size of their endowments itâs also basically perpetual.
I guess weâll see everyone apply as transracial now⌠itâs the only way to survive in the 𤥠world
We'll call it The Warren Method.
I think as long as youâre honest itâs ok.
Iâm multi-racial, I could legitimately put down Native American (~25%), Latino/Hispanic (~35%) and white(~35%). I do the latino/Hispanic and white but not the Native American. Iâve never been on a reservation and I have absolutely no connections to the tribe Iâm descended from so it just feels dishonest.
Honestly, I wonder what scholarships I couldâve gotten if I did do Native American though. Granted. Iâve gotten tons of scholarship interviews but Iâve never gotten a scholarship after an in-person or teams interviewâŚ.so thatâs kinda sus.
Iâm a black lesbian woman when I apply for jobs, and a white man when I negotiate salary.
Hmmm I wonder what the end result is going to be when you disenfranchise thousands of hyper intelligent white people through a system of systemic racism.... I wonder what they're going to do to the system in the long term once they get a little bit older and more bitter... Don't shit where you sleep folks...
Hyper intelligent
Please stop the victimization complex. I can tell from here his application was great, not perfect. Dude got a 35 on his ACT. You think he wasn't compared to people who got a 36? He listed his GPA as 5.09, you think there's not thousands of others with a 5.1?
You just want an excuse to be angry, and looks like you want an excuse to be violent as well
No actually... It's gonna be terrible for everyone... Me included. you just seem like your afraid of the consequences of the system your upholding catching up with you... A bit like how the slave owners feared that if they free'd the slaves the slaves would retaliate...
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but you're clearly upset about things much larger than me or this kid's college admission. I want you to know that I'm sorry for whatever happened to you that made you so angry and distrustful. I want you to remember that there are still wonderful people out there, and there is still a lot of kindness. If you ever want to talk about anything please reach out. I love you
not really sure what your trying to say
Bc your a racist dumbass, lmfao
Just out of curiosity: What did I say that was racist?
Holyyyy fuck this is depressing and impressive, how can you be so insanely toxic?
I mean the guy is literally comparing affirmative action to slavery.
Can you walk me through how expressing a tiny shred of kindness to someone who clearly isn't doing ok is toxic?
Nah
Lol, thanks for the nonsense disparaging comment then, I guess? Have a wonderful day
Man, you are truly something, huh
I would love to understand what it is your trying to express, but you just keep being flippant and cryptic. I'm here if you ever want to have an actual conversation like adults <3
Well, you're probably more disgustingly toxic than like 99.9% of the population, and that is one hell of an achievement but unfortunately won't make for great life prospects.
If you ever want to talk about WHY you feel that way about me--instead of just using people as your emotional punching bag--I'm here for you
He didnât get in cause heâs a white male. If he had black or Hispanic female on his app.. he wouldâve gotten into every single school
This is like when women had to put their initials on their submissions so publishers wouldnât knowâŚ.life is a flat circle
That or use a male pseudonym - gotta laugh at the circle these days
Itâs not luck. Heâs intentionally being rejected based on circumstances he cannot control.
Or he's a bad candidate.
A good GPA and ACT is insufficient for most top schools.
Wtf is a 5.0 gpa? Is there a grade above Aâs now? S?
Weighted classes, AP classes, college level courses
The point being weighted gpaâs, and schools having completely different and arbitrary standards makes GPAâs fairly meaningless. There shouldnât exist a GPA higher than 4.0 if we donât want GPAâs to become a meaningless metric.
Most if not all colleges ask you to submit it unweighted and list your ap classes, or do it on their end, rather than just posting a weighted metric.
How is it meaningless if you are getting straight A's in all AP classes?
One schoolâs 4.0 is another schoolâs 7.0 gpa. Whereâs the consistency?
Almost every state has a standard that all cities adhere to. AP is a national standard, you can't get AP class accreditation without using that nationality recognized curriculum and grade weighting.
That scholastic measurement must be placed in high accord if someone with a higher than a theoretically possible GPA isnât getting accepted by universitiesâŚ. GPA inflation and GPA moving targets means its relevance as a scholastic ruler is fading.
I mean, he almost aced the ACT and is class president. Sounds like he's not someone just taking advantage of the system.
Where did I say heâs taking advantage of the system? The system is stacked against him because GPA scores have become trivialized.
What is your point then? Your first comment makes it sound like you think his achievements aren't legitimate.
I literally just said âThe system is stacked against him because GPA scores have become trivialized.â Thatâs my point.
Well first of all you didn't " literally" say that. You admitted to not understanding how the grading system worked and then further pointed out your ignorance by saying there was no standard, when that couldn't be further from the truth when it comes to AP classes.
I literally did just say that. If you have to resort to distorting reality itself to present your "argument", then just lay down your king and save us all some valuable time. If 5.1 GPAs aren't enough, maybe we should start giving people 9.0 GPAs - that'll help. This system that you're adamantly defending worked swimmingly well for this unlucky guy.
I'm not defending what happened to this guy. I'm just explaining how GPA's work to someone who admitted multiple times they don't know how they work.
... you put quotes around something that you preceded with "I literally just said". Even though, you DIDN'T just say that, because quotes are used to show something you ACTUALLY said in exact words. Now, if you were rephrasing something, I get it, but you don't use quotes, nor do you say "literally". Maybe google the definition of the word. Be more straight to the point, don't beat around the bush, and be clear and concise.
You finished it the way you should have by saying "that's my point". But you preceded it with something that was objectively false. You should have just left out the "I literally just said", both times you used it. Maybe English isn't your first language, which is fine, but rather than get mad, just learn and don't be a dick about it.
Ok well there are IB classes which are harder than AP classes. Meanwhile some schools were giving out 6 for some classes. The whole thing is ridiculous.
Schools can't just arbitrarily choose how much to award for classes. It doesn't work that way. It's all set by the state, or in the case of most AP and IB classes, on the federal level.
Do you have any things to support this claim?
Do you want me to link every single school district's grading policy? The standard grading for non-weighted is 4.0, almost every school in the country does 5.0 for AP classes, and some schools do higher if they are taking college level courses, my daughter goes to an actual college taught class during the school day for example.
I've moved across the country four times and across an ocean once and my kids have gone to schools in about 10 different districts over the years and they've all followed exactly what I just listed as their standard in each school district, in 5 different states.
Is it possible that some places are doing a differently, of course, but I've yet to find a place that did it differently than 4.0 for standard and 5.0 for AP.
Ok so I went to an IB school where the easier classes were AP. Yet only IB gets a 5.0. Meanwhile adjacent schools had the community college classes which get you a 5.0 but are complete jokes. Calling this standardized is a complete joke.
Sounds like you are projecting your school experience to every school in the country. AP isn't controlled by individual schools though. It's run by the colleges.
Itâs not projection, Iâm directly referring to it⌠anyways minimum requirements are hardly reflective of how rigorous a class is. GPA manipulation is hardly some controversial topic, it exists in college and beyond as well.
It is projection because you are implying everyone does what your one school did.
Thereâs no 7
Thereâs a 4 point scale for hs classes with ap classes being worth 5 or more which are standardized
asses with ap classes being worth 5 or more which are standardized
Does that standard change over time? When I was in high school (two decades ago) it wasn't theoretically possible to have higher than a 4.33 GPA.
GPA inflation is real.
I mean gpa inflation is real for sure
But everyone in the same class theoretically should be mostly the same
So you can take all regular level classes and have a 4.0? That isn't very intelligent consistency when looking for the most advances students.
I've never heard of a school using 7 but I've heard of a ton of schools using 5 as the highest
SATâs are the solution.
These have existed for a very long time.
Thats what Iâve been telling my family for a while. A 112 out of 120 is not even close to as good as a 99 out of 100 but the 112 sounds impressive to most people.
And with this kid in the OP, we donât know what his GPA could have been maxed out at. If it was at 5.10, yeah thatâs great. But if it was 6.00, thatâs not as impressive.
If only you put âotherâ in that box
On one hand, some folks on Twitter who did some digging into his social media found out that he apparently wrote a deliberately silly essay about SpongeBob, so that may have been the deciding factor at many, if not all, of the schools.
On the other hand, even with the shittiest or laziest essay of all time, anyone who believes that a black or Hispanic teen with equal qualifications would also have been rejected from every single one of these schools is utterly delusional. Changing his race would have gotten him into at least a couple of these same institutions.
I'm asian and got 35 act and valedictorian as well. Got rejected or waitlisted from all top schools. Got into state flagship though.
Actual systemic racism
"He is a Cis-White Male, his struggles don't matter". -A Democrat, somewhere.
Ironically this might actually be good for university system "equity" in the long run as the academic results of ivy league institutions decline over time from admitting less and less qualified students. Meanwhile, more and more smart people end up going to different universities or forgoing university altogether. These smart people who would otherwise have gone to the Ivy League schools will still most likely end up successful and their money will now be spent on different initiatives, depriving the Ivy league universities of alumni money they would once have received.
I'm speculating obviously, but seems possible.
Reading through these comments everyone's blaming this on affirmative action, but surely the legacy admissions policy is more of a problem
Good.
Long story short it was the right outcome for me to go to a state school for free instead.
Now yes, you can get better connections and such with those places, but then that defeats the whole purpose of meritocracy anyways.
Just do useful, efficient work, and that will take you pretty far.
Itâs because heâs a white male, and arguably likely with absolutely no regard for the socioeconomic realities he and his family faced. When we come to a day when the content of your character (and the results of your busting your ass to get top notch grades/scores) matters, and not the color of your skin or your sex, then there truly is no honest, level playing field. Merit based selection should matter. No matter what you look like. Letâs do an experiment: how about he resubmit his applications with any other skin color and/ or as a female? Bet he has different results.
That might be possible now that SCOTUS has struck down affirmative action in colleges and universities because it was discriminating against races.
Ivy League schools are not easy to get in to and reject a lot of very qualified candidates. He could be rejected for any number of reasons. Believe it or not there are tens of thousands of kids like him. Could his race be a factor, possibly we donât know. But to assume that why when itâs Ivy League schools is just projecting your own political narrative on it. Youâre also taking him at his word that he is accurately describing his achievements.
My point is that there is too much you donât know to draw these broad conclusions. He will be just fine. If he truly has that GPA and ACT there are PLENTY of good schools that would be happy to take him. Ivy schools are giant âboys clubsâ and there is big emphasis on legacies who will donate a lot of money. They really push for minority quotas to cover their ass for all the 3-4 generationâs of rich kids.
What the fuck is this? A reasonable post? Do you know what fucking sub you're in?!?!.... Get outta here with your nuance and rational response.
Thatâs the thing, there are a multitude of factors relating to why college admissions, especially at the highest level are so opaque and screwed up. Itâs a complex analysis.
This sub rightfully condemns feminism for pointing to patriarchy and nothing else when it comes to explaining why the âwage gapâ exists. But then does the same thing when a white dude gets rejected from college. Itâs not a âwoke agendaâ itâs far more complicated than that, even the history of race based admissions is far more complicated, and itâs my no means anti-white: Asian males are the most affected.
We do know it is likely to be a woke agenda, is the point. Part of the issue, like you say, is that we don't know for 100% sure. Which actually makes it worse, since these schools aren't brave enough to admit to it, to tell the truth.
But, importantly, given the stats released, and what we do know is that these schools and many schools do practice affirmative action. And considering the guy applied to multiple, is white and is the highest scores, it's not a stretch at all. So it's perfectly understandable people see it that way.
The funny thing is that's what this sub used to be and what it is quite literally supposed to be. But now it's just a bunch of rage bait because outrage gets the likes. It's just like the News, they show things that make you angry because that makes them more money.
I've been thinking about leaving for a while cause I just hate to go online and constantly get annoyed/angry over bs that doesn't effect me in any way. What's the point of constantly being upset when it doesn't even remotely benefit you?
Dude if he were back or a woman he would absolutely get in. What the fuck are you idiots at the bottom of this thread even talking about while going completely unchallenged? Affirmative action is actually a real thing.
Why is it that "anti-circlejerk wOw, fInAlLy a rEaSonAbLe pOsT!!!" parts of reddit threads are even more circlejerky than the actual upvoted parts?
He would have a better chance if he were a minority. But itâs not the end all be all. Like I said, you donât know how truthful heâs being with his stats or if he even put them there himself. Although I think affirmative actions has its cons. Itâs in an attempt to right the wrongs of the past. To give people who werenât traditionally given opportunities, opportunities. But it was an over correction and as is the nature of these things. At some point weâll reach some semblance of equilibrium.
trevor noah ? Is that you?
Yes, he will get into a great school. Also, heâs going to lead with the best parts of his application. We donât know about extra-curriculars (VP is only something seniors can be & at this point we know that student council is a popularity contest anyways).
There may be a contradiction here. Unless you believe everyone accepted by these schools in order to fill these minority quotas are more qualified than him, if we take his results as valid, then it wouldn't at all be projecting any political narrative onto the situation.
If they prioritise filling minority quotas over merit based acceptance for the sake of 'covering their asses', then isn't the outrage valid?
Iâm not gonna deny that affirmative action, or equal opportunity acts exist. They do, but I think their effects on white people can be overstated at times. Which also why I said his race COULD be a factor. But there a laundry list of factors that determine if someone will be accepted.
"you are all taking his word" So we should just taking your word?
At least give more information why he could be rejected instead of implying everyone here has an issue.
Do you not know anything about the college application process? They donât just hand them photos of the people with their GPA and STA/ACT scores stamped on their foreheads. Then sort them by white or not white. And by that logic you shouldnât trust what either he or I say. Itâs your prerogative to choose who you trust or believe. But neither me or the guy in the video is blaming racism for his rejections. My point was there are so many factors involved in acceptance. I think more likely than not heâs being honest. But some people apply to Ivy Leagues for the meme when they know they canât get in.
bitch please
This is bang on the money. Rich white kids still dominate elite university. It's just the plebs scratching around.
Sorry, that level of nuance doesn't conform to the JP audience's victim complex! You must be a post-modern neomarxist or something! Don't you know everything on the internet is real and confirms all of my specific biases?
I agree with the post, but I think it's important to apply this theory to any social issue. Discrimination is certainly a factor, but it's not the only one. If we were to swap the people in the video, the narrative would be different, and we might not question their credentials. While it's easy to agree with the post given the context, we should consider how we would feel if the roles were reversed. If we can still hold the same opinion, it would carry more weight.
Yes, but also no. Sure, this could be fake or he could be lying or maybe his application was absolutely awful. But I think it's unlikely. Even if that is the case, it's still worth discussing because racial discrimination in college applications (and elsewhere) is rampant.
My whole argument wasnât that it was fake necessarily. There are many things application offices look at. My other point was the âdiscriminationâ could have more to do with his SES and family name than his race. If youâre white and your scores are like every other applicant, but you donât have a Bush or Biden-like legacy they probably donât care. I guarantee you without affirmative action most of these schools would be sticking with rich white kids who have family money. These schools are all out for profit and are riding on their reputation, funding, and massive donors. They arenât inherently better schools. Money buys you the best new equipment, nicest campus, and funding for research. (i.e. guys like Jeffrey Epstein who funded research labs at Ivy League schools)
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Thatâs a false equivalency. Of course there may be some parallels. But thereâs never been federal or state laws on the books that prevent white people from equal access and opportunity to exist. Iâm not trying to be all woke here, but thatâs just the facts of Jim Crow era. The steps weâre taking now are imo and over correction being made in an attempt to right the wrongs of our past. We are now paying for the sins of our father.
But thereâs things like inherited wealth and upward mobility to middle and lower middle class that white people were afforded that many minorities werenât. Money makes the world go round. Imo thatâs what it always comes back to. The issue is low income and poverty has been intertwined with race in this country for so long itâs hard to address one without the other. Furthermore, I recent lawsuit came out agains Ivy leagues because it was Asian kids being discriminated against the most. Because soooo many Asian applicants had great credentials they wouldâve beaten out most of the candidates. But because there are diversity quotas many Asian kids were rejected.
I personally think racial, ethnic and intellectual diversity are important. You really do learn a lot about the world and yourself by interacting with other races and minorities. Not just the Uber woke SJW types. So I think until we can resolve the overt economic disparities between races to the point where equality of opportunity is present. There will be some âdiscriminationâ and quotas that need to be met. I donât like it, but without it we can never level the playing field. And like I said, IVY isnât end all be all. There are soooo many schools he qualifies for.
Is a GPA higher than a 4.0 possible now? That seems interesting.
I'm sure he'll be fine at whatever state school he chooses to accept a full ride at.
Mark down that you're gay and you vote Democrat. Guaranteed admission.
Yeah....luck is the problem here /s
Great sense of humour. in North America, 60% of men drop out of their degree studies and 75% of graduates learn no science at all - just proven-false theory; indoctrination and not education.
If HR departments didn't have such a strong hold on hiring, 75% of university training would be a detriment to employment.
..just say you're native American just like Senator Liz Warren.
âWhite privilegeâ what a joke.
Just say you're gay. You'll get in all of them.
itâs trade school time
They rejected him because he had his shirt off and laughed the whole time
Getting into an Ivy as a freshman is difficult not just from affirmative action. Legacies get priority, there are spaces reserved for candidates from certain prep schools as well.
Yeah, as much as I doubt the effectiveness of affirmative action, there is likely more to this story.
One of my kids was like this. She ended up at an Ivy in grad school so it worked out.
You are told a thousand times over if you're actually interested in Ivy League schools not to singularly focused on test scores alone. If that is all you have to offer one of these schools, you'll be denied across the board. The fact he's only showing his GPA and ACT seems to indicate that this is all he had to offer.
This post also indicates that anyone who thinks this video proves anything doesn't actually know how the admissions process works at colleges lol
Other scores not mentioned but included will be your skin colour + how well you can victimise yourself.
schools not to singularly focused on test scores alone.
Am I able to use the same sob story I used to get onto
I think it also matters where heâs applying from. Unfortunately, these schools are looking for accomplishments outside of the classroom. Being a smart, popular jock isnât cutting it anymore. Where I live kids are coding by the time theyâre in Kindergarten outside the classroom. Theyâre taking math and science courses in addition to school. Theyâre training in their sport of choice 5 days a week, outside school. Itâs not easy anymore. Can you do all of that and get those scores? Cause this isnât about being white as much as it is about being rich, if youâre rich, youâve got to show a greater level of perseverance. Is it that hard to do well in school if you have food on the table, a roof over your head, married parents, were handed a car on your 16th bday, parents paid for tutoring, and you had help writing your college essays, also you never had to work, etc? I mean doing well in school is the bare minimum at that point, youâve literally got nothing better to do.
Alright guys, Iâm as against AA as the rest of yâall, but some context is needed for modern college admissions.
Schools grade inflate like crazy. Many schools that actually focus on getting their students to college donât give out Cs. I graduated high school 2 years ago, attended a college prep private high school, and the lowest GPA in my class of 86 kids was a B average.
Going further, there are so many resources to practice for exams like the SAT/ACT, so while his score is objectively great, many other kids score similarly so the 35 isnât that outstanding of an achievement, especially to these schools in the upper echelon of academia. Before you call me an ass, I scored a 35 on my ACT as well and I attend a very respected state school.
Colleges really want kids who are either complete monsters in a certain field- think of kids who have competed in top science/math competitions- or kids who show exceptional leadership and participation at their schools and in their communities. They want kids who are smart, driven, and interesting.
Final thing to note is that basically every school has multiple essay prompts for students to respond to. These give the admissions officers insight into the kidsâ experiences, their ambitions, and how they fit into the class theyâre trying to form.
TLDR- college admissions isnât so clear cut anymore
When the essays are all about how hard your life was before college, how much of a minority you are, or how big a victim you are, theyâre also a pointless joke. College is dumb af nowadays anyway. For most people it ends up being a waste of time
This is objectively untrue. College is the single best investment that a regular person can make in their life. Facts dont care about your feelings bucko!
Thatâs bullshit. How does a bachelorâs in interpretive dance help anyone? Going to a trade school and learning a trade would benefit half the country much more than some arbitrary business degree that put them $50,000 in debt. Your âfactsâ are straight-up wrong
Interesting opinion, lets see if it maps onto reality?
Unlucky! Ur opinion is not only wrong, but it's so wrong as to make me question why someone with 70 IQ is allowed unsupervised internet access, as you clearly have nothing of value to say.
âAll the data listed here is the authorsâ analysis of a 2007-2009â survey. I donât doubt that a college degree made a difference 15 years ago. If you think itâs actually worth $2.8 million for most people, youâre out of your mind
Do you think that the pay differential between people with and without degrees has increased or decreased since 2009? Has the world gotten more or less technologically complex since the 2000s?
A 35 is absolutely an outstanding achievement. Getting a 34 puts you in the 99th percentile. Ya, prep classes can get you a long way, but regardless a 35 is pretty insane, and indicates unique intelligence. I think the fact that you got a 35 makes it seem less amazing than it is, likely because youâre diminishing your own sense of your intelligence. I went to school with kids who went to Harvard, Stanford, Cal Tech, Princeton (lots of Princeton for some reason), and MIT, and only one of them got a 35.
Genetics slowly deminishing the overly proud and intellectually challenged in favor of brains.
All of his would-be classmates are also paper tigers. What else is he bringing to the table?
Would be classmates include black students with 25-30 ACT scores. This mismatching of schools is terrible for all parties involved.
Would it really matter when they prioritize "diversity" quotas over all other assessments and scholastic achievements?
Sadly, no.
Me being black I find this insulting. What happened to raw merit and skill? He should be a shoe in
That might have worked when these schools werenât as popular but they canât admit everyone
Imagine getting discriminated against because of your race or colour of your skin.
Imagine being ok with it as retribution.
Funny how ALL the complaints here are about non-white people and not one about the legacy admissions that make up 35% of the Ivy League
The circle jerk in the comments is nice and all, but everyone here should take a step back and think about whether they really believe the facts in the video are 100% true and that even if they are, whether the problem is 100% only that he's a white male. I can think of 10 alternatives in a minute.
Let's not fall to confirmation bias and ideological possession here.
I'm interested hearing those 10 alternatives đś
Look, maybe number 10 is the winner, but seeing as white people still get admitted to schools in the USA (right?), you'd at best be silly at thinking there is literally only one reason conceivable, and it's that specific reason.
Uh uh, you said 10 ALTERNATIVES in a minute, number 10 is not an alternative, mister đ
Damn, you got me. I failed. Can you think of one for me? Help a brother out. đ
This guy is on TikTok and he seems to not be a fan of the narrative that people are saying he got rejected because heâs white also.
Imagine that!
But to not fall into confirmation bias myself, what's his handle? I can't quite make the small letters in the video out.
The enablers dropped by. So say that they are 100% true, what would you then say?
Your first sentence isn't the win that you think it is. Are you remembering you're in a JBP sub, or forgot, and thought you were in a conservative bubble sub?
To your question, I would say that this needs to stop and no racism is ever justified, even for cases of what some people would call affirmative action.
You didn't reply to my previous comment. How about now, that he revealed the beginning of his essay?
https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/comments/12fmir0/man_rejected_from_every_ivy_league_school_college/
Think maybe I got one of my predictions right? Seems like my reason #2 and maybe with a grain on #8.
https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/comments/12d0m1d/comment/jf5vmv5/
Are you still 100% sure, or is there a bit of doubt now?
The preponderance of evidence appears to be more likely true than false.
Really?
Well if there's a preponderance, can you show any of it?
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Before the civil rights act of 1964, assuming you're talking about the USA? Then all of those 10 things could've been true, yep. But also racism that was a built in policy in certain institutions, since it was still legal in many places.
Also, it's possible that it's racism in this very case. Racism still happens even if there are laws against it. I didn't deny it. I did deny going out of our way to accept a clickbaity clip as true and absolute proof of a phenomenon without giving it a second thought, though.
Well for one, half those schools arenât Ivy League.
This is revolting
I have a theory that this is exactly how the Ivy League schools fall from their great heights. All the independently capable students go to other universities and make them great.
everyone's right to assume there's some additional factor that's resulting in these rejections. but when they assume the factor is definitely race, as a lot of these top comments do, you're only showing your very unflattering bias and complete lack of critical thinking.
When that girl in Texas did this same shit, went viral talking about "reverse racism", and filed a lawsuit, the university showed immediately her application was garbage.
This dude is probably #1 in his class of 10 kids and has no AP classes but y'all just love your rage bait
Edit: He got a 35/36 on the ACT. Why no SAT?
You canât get more than 4.0 GPA without an AP classes. This guy definitely took AP classes for sure. Although i donât know the amount Iâd students or the difficulty of his courses as it is based on that schools curriculum.
That's not even true. Different schools in different places weight their gpa differently. There's no information here, just rage bait. His 5.09 could easily be out of 6.0
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Why would the guy spend thousands to apply to all of those schools with bullshit grades and achievements.
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Clicks is like crack to some of them.
He's taking it surprisingly well, unless he knew he wasn't capable and these applications are prank material for Tiktok.. đ
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No, why? But from my point of view living in the UK having been to the university, the system they use here asks you to apply for like five universities so, you have to put some thought into the realistic expectations of getting into one. It looks like he just applied for every one of them with no realistic expectations for getting in. If he REALLY worked his arse off he wouldn't necessarily be crying but he would have to be off his trolley to find it amusing..
For any young people applying to college... a good GPA and ACT is insufficient for most top school.
You need to demonstrate your value to the school. You aren't just buying an education, you are becoming part of a product.
Grades aren't enough. Sorry if no one told you that... they failed you. :(
Yo I also despise non-merit based admissions but the listed resume is nothing special. Itâs a prerequisite but you also need to have something special on your resume to make it to a top school. Itâs more like âhow many people were let in without these credentials due to race or nepotismâ.
This content is no longer available on Reddit in response to /u/spez. So long and thanks for all the fish.
Denied. Why? Wrong color, wrong gender, wrong sex, wrong ethnicity, wrong accomplishments. This is what is wrong with academia, and there will be consequences; none of them good. When meritocracy is tossed in favor of racial and gender bias, God help us. If you agree with the new entrance policies, I hope you need surgery and get one of the graduates who received their diploma on the basis of characteristics other than proficiency.
God, flexing so much privilege. He didnât even have to work hard to get where heâs at. White men have it so easy.
So?
Yall act like there are no white males in ivy league... he probably had a relatively poor personal statement, letters of rec, lacked compelling experience, or some combination of those. Everyone in Ivy League has a sky high GPA going in.
And now the entire world sends students to these institutions and the volume of applications have grown massively.
Do any of you incels understand how competitive college admissions are now? They admitted 1,984 kids for the upcoming class.
There are more than 1,984 high schools in the United States. By definition the valedictorian of every high school canât get into Harvard, or an Ivy League for that matter.
Ye, right after we just saw 4.0 GPA black dude get into Harward like 2 days ago. Probably they have too many white males from legacy stuff so they need to fill some female black lesbian bracket.
If he really does have those stats, then it is highly unlikely that he had a poor personal statement, letters of rec, etcâŚ.
Most of the white males in Ivy are legacyâŚ.
So why arenât legacy admits being called out for taking his place instead of the highest voted comments just jumping to the conclusion that it must be because of his race?
As to your other contention, we really donât know, nor are we likely to ever know. The ACT itself means nothing. All these schools heâs applied to have similar performing applicants in that regard.
Itâs so important for people to shift their expectations here. This guy is competing with domestic and international students in the veritable 1%. A high ACT and vice president of your class isnât going to cut it if you hope to get in on merit. Iâm very skeptical of claim those points would make him a slam dunk.
I donât disagree with you. Legacy admissions are BS. Every admission should be on merit alone.
Americans are so crazy lmao. That kid who aced his education shouldnât get into a top educational institution because his personal statement probably wasnât very good. Yep, I am totally not a clown for defending that system that would be regarded ridiculous and probably illegal in any other first world country.
Probably? Why are you assuming that? I would like to know how you know all of this.
Yeah exactly. His personal statement wasn't, "yo yo. Check it. Whitey bad, n***er. Peace." Or, "Black lives matter." Written 30 times. Ironically, these non-standardized metrics were used to discriminate for whites, now it's used to discriminate against whites and "white adjacents."
There are white males, most just check other "marginalized" boxes.
Oh no, what ever will he do. This is basically worse than being born in a poor black community with no resources. He s going to have to go to a non Ivy League school now, where he will surely still get a degree and a high paying job. Thatâs surely a bigger injustice than being born completely disenfranchised or fatherless. The whites have it so hard.
Isn't 4.0 the highest your gpa can get? Even if you include AP and honors classes, I can't imagine it going past 4.5
An A in an AP class is worth a 5 in the GPA calculation.
I guess we know who isnât going to ivy for sure lol
You?
The guy you replying to mate although u are also technically correct hahaha
Thatâs a 3.8 unweighted. Looks like he just wasnât as exceptional as the rest of the applicants
How do you figure that?
What am I looking at?
An entitled kid come up against the harsh reality that he isn't that special.
He could always identify as a her/theyBeat âem at their own game I say.
I know so little about academia I don't even know if those are good scores. I suspect they are good because the video would be unremarkable if they were average or bad.
If you were to take the general classes everyone took, and you got a perfect score in all of them, your GPA (Grade Point Average) would be 4.0. Because every A counts as 4.
But then there are courses offered as AP (advanced placement). They are "advanced" in many levels including complexity if material and amount of work required. Then there are also college level courses you can take during high school which actually give you college credit, and you can even take high school courses during middle school. These advanced courses give you a higher score than the typical A = 4. It's relatively easy to reach something like a 4.2 or 4.5 with a few advanced courses. But to reach above 5.0 you had to have taken a significant number of these advanced courses AND aced them ALL!
There are probably different metrics for homeschooled kids, I don't know. But either way, a 4.2 person is basically a perfect student. A 5.0+ is a beyond perfect student.
Grades don't prove intelligence. They prove a person's ability to process information, learn, be teachable, and have determination in excelling. You can't really get a more perfect student than someone with grades like this (if it's real). Nothing says this guy is a great person, a great employee, or a genius. But he absolutely would be a perfect student. You'd think a school, that is in the business of teaching students, would want the best students to teach.
Do you have to share your race? I would definitely not share that I'm white with college admissions.
is int there entrance exam to colleges that's based on rank cutoff ?
Gpa of 5 is still weird. When I was in school a 4.0 was the absolute maximum.
I think I can find the one common factor that explains why he didn't get into any of those universities.
Equal opportunity policies are against racism. Affirmative action is racism under new management.
This is gonna sound weird or maybe date me, but when I was going to school, you could only get up to a 4.00 GPA. I know because I had a 3.00 LOL. What changed?
I have a difficult time believing he is 1 in his class with 5.09 GPA⌠because that would mean 6 is the max GPA
Itâs a weighted GPA, advanced and honors classes add more than the 4.0 despite being on a 4.0 scale.
With a max gpa of 5.00âŚ
Look up weighted GPAâs.
Itâs important to note the use of the word âtypicallyâ. To your point the .09 is odd, but itâs not unusual to go over 4.0.
Shouldâve just put on the application that heâs a woman
This only happens to white and Asian applicants. Got nothing to do with luck.
I hope he sees this as the blessing it is. Imagine being surrender by woke brainwashed kids and professors for 4 years. Theyâll go to shit if they havenât already.
Remember this the next time you see a resume float across your desk with an Ivy League school on it. They are not taking the best and the brightest and have not been for a long time
This is straight up racism.
Obviously he should donate his PC to one of those schools, tis' the least he can do to atone for his sins
This shit hits on the backend though. Employers will eventually realize that those college degrees aren't tied to merit and the best companies will start looking for the top candidates who were rejected for their skin color while the poor saps who pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a piece of paper will find there is less demand for their services. It was never about the diploma; it was what the diploma represented.
At that point just lie and say youâre half whatever. Itâs sad that gifted students get denied based on their race when universities are âdiversifyingâ their student base for âreasonsâ
This is why I never liked putting down what race I am. Race doesnât determine who you are or who you could be your actions do.
Wow
Dude wasnât even the class president. I wouldnât admit him either
âUnluckyâ
Someone show this to Chris Rock. I want to hear his hot take.
Take a look at medical school acceptance rates in California. You'd have to cure cancer before getting accepted in their schools. Please, someone do a followup outcome analysis on these teaching hospitals accepting people on their stories alone.
It's almost as if he's applying for an education from private institutions within a free country. So wierd that these institutions can do whatever they want. They want to educate minorities and disadvantaged people? That is very racist against straight white men. They should only let in people with the best numbers and not be allowed to have an agenda.
I meanâŚwhat did you write on the admissions committee? âIn my free time I crush puppy heads and lick car exhausts when they still hot to get highâ
Yes. In.
All schools are doing this now. Medical, dental, law. If youâre white, your chances are slim.
At least heâs got a good attitude
Itâs not really clear he has the right stuff for the Ivy League though. I tutored ACT for a bit. Got a girl to 33 her first or second time taking it. With (intensive) prep itâs not that hard. GPA and class rank donât mean shit if you are not at a feeder school. I think most of you all know that being valedictorian doesnât mean much. This dudes up against people who have âmath Olympiad winnerâ or ânational cello competition winnerâ or âranked mountain climberâ along with all that other stuff on their admission docket. I know we are all supposed to be mad because heâs white but he probably just sucks. Oh, and doesnât have alumni parents.
The only thing this shows me is I would be very wary of a minority doctor/lawyer etc⌠great idea idiots!! This kid worked his ass off! And for what???? CRAZINESS đĄ
I love the 2nd friend's reactions. It's strong but totally appropriate!
This is like south africa. I gave up my study journey and didn't do my masters because the spots were given to blacks with averages 20 percent lower than mine.
Itâs probably cause your a white cis male. You didnât work hard or anything. You were just white
They don't have quotas for you. Who's really privileged?
How much did he spend on all those applications?
âI guess I did something wrongâ yeah me too. We made the mistake of being born white.
So, there is a guy who talks about how IVY league schools have higher acceptance rates of black and Hispanic vs. Asian and White. Like drastically higher rates. I think it was like if you are white the chances of getting accepted is between 5-10% and if you are Asian the chances are lower than if you are white. Itâs strange. Iâll see if I can find the video.
I remembered it wrong. It isnât all ivy leagues the video in question just talks about Harvard and the numbers I said were slightly off; however, the rest of what I said is true.
Enjoy the YouTube short.
https://youtube.com/shorts/h9O6-sUTohs?si=WCwTR3YOIUPwzupN
If this bothers you, look into law school admissions. No joke, people with 180 LSAT scores are getting denied by schools accepting âunder represented minoritiesâ with 165s and sub-median GPAs. Itâs gross and thereâs zero pretense of it being a meritocracy
Yeah and these Ivy League law schools are going to get rid of the LSAT requirement because itâs still not getting them enough minority students
No, they're going to get rid of the LSAT because SCOTUS is about to strike down affirmative action as the racists bullshit it is and the LSAT exposes the fact that they're using race in their admissions decisions. The LSAT shines a bright light on their racist admissions policies and they don't like that, so they're just going to ditch the LSAT.
How does LSAT shine a bright light on racist admission policy ?
The clam is "schools are preferentially accepting students with lower academic ability due to their race". In order to support or refute that claim, you need to quantify the academic ability of applicants with respect to race and look at the acceptance rate for each demographic.
The LSAT is the quantification of academic ability in that analysis process.
How does it not? LSAT is the only thing that proves that the students they are accepting(minorities) are not as qualified as the students they aren't (white ones). Remove the LSAT and you remove all proof of anything racist going on.
You and I are basically saying the same thing. They donât like the LSAT because they want more minorities in law school and it looks bad for them to be accepting objectively worse students based on race
Its more than that though. Its about being legal or not legal. Affirmative action is going to get struck down, after which it will be illegal for them to keep factoring race into their admissions decisions. They want to get rid of the LSAT so that they can hide their illegally actions.
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I pulled off a 165 on the LSAT and got into Pepperdine but didn't go because it was 50k a year and I was poor. Wish I had sometimes.
The LSAT is no joke. It's logic games and reading comp and requires no knowledge of law but it's hard.
Interestig point. Can you link source for this? I'm curious.
Are you serious? The LSAT is the single biggest indicator of how well one will do in law school. And, shocker, doing well in law school usually translates to doing well in practice. Do you have a source for your contention that there is no correlation or did you just pull it out of your ass?
Im bothered by this on many levels. This ignores the merit of non-minority applicantt as much as it also ignores the merit of "under represented minority". Now those minorities with a really high scores are accepted not because of merit. I don't think either group wants their hard work and achievements to be ignored or rationalized down to being just a product of their skin color. Its just silly.
I dont see how this "over correction" could ever been seen as a meritocracy.
It also makes people suspect of minorities in those fields. That minority person could have been the best student, top of their class, knew the material inside and out and upside down, but because of these practices, many will be suspicious of them throughout their career as they don't know if they're actually good or got shoved through for affirmative action and DEI points
That is why I have been strongly opposing any DEI policy as âminorityâ even though I could benefit from it. But my woke coworkers just think I am crazy and my woke boss wants to kick me out of her project. đ
Itâs insulting to me if people think I need additional help because Iâm brown or my first language was something other than English.
AFAIK Asians minorities have the hardest time getting in, even with higher than average academic scores
lol you're right, which makes it even more hilarious when they try to claim that there is some white dominated society.
Those two ideas are not mutually exclusiveâŚ
But affirmative action seems to favor blacks, not minorities per se
That is a pretty bold claim with no backing.
Do you have a source on that?
Source?
A source. I need a source.
Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion.
No, you can't make inferences and observations from the sources you've gathered. Any additional comments from you MUST be a subset of the information from the sources you've gathered.
You can't make normative statements from empirical evidence.
Do you have a degree in that field?
A college degree? In that field?
Then your arguments are invalid.
No, it doesn't matter how close those data points are correlated. Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
CORRELATION. DOES. NOT. EQUAL. CAUSATION.
You still haven't provided me a valid source yet.
Nope, still haven't.
You are mocking yourself alone here my friend. If your unstated goal is to normalize and excuse your bigoted thoughts; that is your right. It is also my right to ask you to back up your claims when you seek to put the onus on the people you are looking down on.
Anyone else remember when conversations could occur without needing studies and data to back up every thought uttered? We could all just have views and ideas without spending 20 minutes compiling resources to match every word because some internet dweeb thinks every statement is an official claim in a formal debate requiring it be "backed up"?
Those were good times.
I remember when you make wild unsubstantiated claims and respond with pining for days when you could bullshit unchallenged. Remember that?
Yes, the dreaded 'diversity hire' title.
The word âMeritocracyâ (much like the word âcapitalismâ itself) is actually slur made up by Marxists. They see someone who is more skilled benefitting from the market as somehow âcapitalismâ bestowing more âmeritâ as a human being.
Goes to show you that you should believe them when they believe that there is no such thing as truth, only power, and that how much money you make is your value as a human.
Beyond that, by accepting under-qualified students, they are causing those people to spend huge amounts on an education they are bound to drop out of. Theyâre setting up everyone for failure.
this will eventually come back and bite us in the ass when there is a talent shortage in the future or worse, there will be a shortage and we wont know it bc all the positions are filled.
I left US and took my talents elsewhere
Welcome to the futureâŚ. Itâs happening now. Look around you.
Can you link a source for this please? Google is woke and hard to get this information from a simple search.
Get on the lawschooladmissions subreddit and youâll see the posts in real time. Itâs a nice community and Iâm not trying to shit on anyone there because everyone works so hard, but it really is wild to see some of the acceptances and rejections.
You could also get on lsd.law to see the data, itâs self reported but there isnât really a reason to lie on a site like that because itâs just for tracking information. It tracks LSAT scores, GPAs, admissions, rejections, and of course demographics like age and minority status.
For example, here's one profile of an underrepresented minority (black in this case) Harvard admit with a 3.45 GPA and a 176 LSAT. Very good LSAT and we don't know what was said in essays or interviews, but contrast it with this non-underrepresented minority with a 4.05 and a 179 LSAT that was rejected from the same school. That's just one example, there are tons.
https://www.lsd.law/users/creep/TroutLawyer
https://www.lsd.law/users/creep/word
Thanks!
If this bothers you, an estimated 25-35% of ivy league students are legacy admissions. "undeserving" minorities have traditionally been blamed for a lot of the problems that actually stem from undeserving rich kids but for some reason its not discussed much round here
This idea of "meritocracy" is a myth. The people who believe in meritocracy themselves don't believe in it. If you doubt this think about the following subject:
If I say that the AI chess players have more merit, suddenly these same people who believe so much about "meritocracy" will suddenly start performing a contortion act. Oh, that's not "real merit", they have AI privilege, they are not really good at chess they are presented as good because of the system, etc etc.
If I say, let us breed genetically engineered humans designed by AI so that they will have more of this enigmatic thing called "merit", suddenly the meritocracy advocates disappear into the shadows. What about my "human" identity, give me human reparations! etc etc.
What a joke.
A hypothetical situation isn't evidence.
All this is going to do is increase the ranks of schools not doing this. Youâre going to have low quality people coming out of the schools that donât accept by merit