Le Ruby Ridge has arrived

Imagine you and you family get shot to death by feds and from the afterlife you see some goober make a funny epic dog post about it

Yep! but he just recently passed away.

Wife and kid didn’t

Well, yeah. That's implied by me saying 'he survived.'

Tragedy + Time = Comedy

I sure do hope this incident doesn't inspire one of the deadliest terror attacks in American history

Timothy McDoge has arrived

le turner diaries biggest fan

He’s talking about waco, a huge disaster where the FBI and ATF basically besieged a house that a peaceful cult was living in

If you want to learn about it I recommend wendigoon’s video because it covers basically all of it, and also it covers ruby ridge which is what this meme is about

I think they're more referring to the OKC bombing. McVeigh cited the Waco and Ruby Ridge incidents as catalysts for the bombing

I was talking about okc bombing but Waco was another one of Timothy McVeigh's inspirations

Actually it's pronounced whacko

It sure was pretty WHACKO when the atf killed innocent people following an offshoot religion

I mean, David koresh raped children but go off I suppose

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.upi.com/amp/Archives/1993/05/04/Psychiatrist-says-Koresh-abused-children-took-child-brides/9118736488000/

Thankfully they shot the kids too so they couldn’t get raped

No, no, not shot, mustard gassed and burned alive don’t forget that part

Well, he was indeed a piece of shit, but the rest of them

Yeah sorry I don't buy it at all. I am perfectly willing to believe they might have been abused in some ways by virtue of it being a cult of crazies but this seems to be some real cope trying to deflect blame and justify the fuck ups. Especially since the allegations never were coroborated later on and were in fact used by the FBI and ATF to force the siege to an end in a big breach where they save all those kids by setting them on fire.

I don't believe they were sexually abused, only regular abused

no one corroborated

the kids themselves corroborated (ibid) as did Clive Doyle in his book, and James Tabor in his book, and Jeannine Bunds in a sworn affidavit, and David Thibodeau.

I find Doyle's account particularly compelling because he died in 2022 and until then was a vocal believer in the cult. He lived out his life believing that God was responsible for the siege rather than Koresh or the cops, and that God would resurrect Koresh.

I thought he was talking about the Oklahoma City Bombing? If I remember correctly the guy who did that was inspired by Ruby Ridge. But Waco was more for the ATF to regain the publics trust

Is this post not referring to ruby ridge? That looks a lot more like that than the Waco complex

This post is about Ruby Ridge.

https://slate.com/slate-presents-standoff.html

And also a dogelore post

Le fuzzy rules of engagement have arrived

Le dubious Russian war tactics before Ukraine war has arrived

Longish story but context is important. Basically, this guy named Randy Weaver moves his family to Idaho to live off the grid, befriends a bunch of white supremacists because he is a white supremacist, but doesn't technically join their group. The FBI and ATF wants to get info on some criminals in that group so they trick him into selling some illegally modified shotguns so they have dirt on him, tell him he'll go to jail if he doesn't spill details on the group, and he refuses to talk (Edit: when he originally tried to give the undercover feds the shotguns the barrels were too long to be considered illegal so they asked him to go back and cut them shorter so they could then charge him with the crime). They go ahead with the charges and schedule a court date that he doesn't show up to, so the feds have to go get him from his house and hold him in custody (Edit: the prosecuting lawyers in the case "mistakenly" sent his lawyer a letter stating the court date was on March 20th when it was on February 20th, and since he lives off the grid no one was able to get in contact with him in time. His lawyer tried arguing to the judge that they had the wrong date in the letter but the judge went through with charging him with skipping court anyways). They know dude is heavily armed and has said before that he would shoot to kill if the government tried to take him, so they go in heavily armed as well. They're caught by the Weavers dog sneaking through the woods and this is where stories vary. One side says his son and best friend start shooting at the feds so they shoot back, the other says the feds just started shooting as soon as they saw his son had a gun. Either way, the son runs to see what the dog barked at and Randy and his friend follow and the son and dog end up dead. As Randy goes to get the body to carry it inside his house, the wife holds the door open for him and a sniper shoots and kills her as well, even though she had no gun and was in fact holding their baby. Then starts a long seige with many people supporting or against both sides, Randy ends up getting caught and taken in after his friend and former Libertarian presidential candidate convinces him to surrender. Randy later says he was wrong to skip going to court and some ATF agents including the person in charge of the seige end up losing their jobs, but not the sniper who shot Randy's wife. That same sniper ends up being present during the Waco siege and supposedly shot at Branch Davidians running from the burning compound but this doesn't have as much evidence supporting it so take it with a grain of salt. The events at Ruby Ridge inspire Timothy McVeigh to protest at the Waco seige and the events there cause him to set his bomb at the Alfred P Murrah building in Oklahoma City in 1995, killing 168 men women and children.

TLDR: white suprmescist skips court appearance and the government comes to his house, end up killing his son and wife, causing public outrage and eventually leading to the Oklahoma City Bombing

They go ahead with the charges and schedule a court date that he doesn’t show up to,

It’s because the officer that wrote him the letter “mistakingly” scheduled the date 1 month after the actual date

Yeah quite the “mistake” to have made, huh

I honestly think it's perfectly believable that our government is simultaneously so incompetent and reflexively violent that this began as a mistake. I don't see where anyone benefits from him missing court. They don't have any reason to want him dead as he's their witness to other crimes they actually want to prosecute and if they wanted him in jail they would have held him when they first arrested him.

I actually find that a number of vast and complex conspiracy theories collapse into really simple stories when you assume that everyone involved is a bit incompetent, has overwhelming firepower and is mostly just trying to cover their own ass.

They had already tried to entrap him into federal charges for firearms law violation so he was not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. And the fact they reacted by sending people with guns to arrest him makes sense if you assume they were REALLY eager to futher push his entrapment to forcefully arrest everyone else around the place.

You are correct, I had forgotten about that. I had remembered an interview where he said he knew and chose not to go but now that I'm researching it now I'm not finding it so I probably misremembered or confused it with Waco

Wasn’t there also a huge thing about whether or not he actually made the SBSes? Iirc they didn’t even find any- or I may be mixing it up with Waco, and it was “just” the additional debate about whether or not it was entrapment.

I believe you're thinking of Waco. In Waco, they were ordering parts that the government claimed could be used to make illegal weapons but in reality they physically could not be used for that purpose, the purposes they were buying them for was completely legal under Texas law, and they even offered on multiple occasions for the FBI and ATF to tour and inspect their compound but they both refused and then later claimed they couldn't get in so ordered a siege. With Weaver he made something like two guns and it was expressly at the request of the government so it was almost textbook entrapment by the feds

Ah yes yes that’s right. It was the fucking TEXTBOOK goddamn entrapment at this one, it was just Waco where they were intentionally fuckheaded about the so-called illegal stuff. Yeah it genuinely blends together no joke, since these are both extremes but by no means whatsoever the only or most recent incidents of the ATF doing this sort of shit.

Exactly, it's just such a joke looking back on it thinking anyone thought at the time what they were doing was moral or correct in any way. I don't know how these people sleep at night

Oh they genuinely sleep like a fucking baby my dude. Chippman (while wrongfully ID’ed as being at the Waco raid when he was there way after the fire) has many times affirmed his total defense and support of the ATF in those actions. There’s a reason he was picked by POTUS for the new head of the ATF, and it certainly wasn’t for a love of the common man and American rights, lol.

Chippman straight up made shit up about WACO right here on reddit, saying the cult used .50 snipers to shoot down fed helicopters. That shit never happened.

That’s not entrapment. Just because a fed tells you to commit a crime doesn’t mean you have to do it, or that you’re not responsible for committing the crime. If the feds threatened him into doing it, it could be, but just “hey cut the barrels down more please” doesn’t cut it.

They posed as members of the white supremacist group he wanted to join, and told him that if he did this then they'd let him join and give him special privileges and then gave him the guns he had to alter. The definition given by the Supreme Court case Jacobson v. United States says "Government agents may not originate a criminal design, implant in an innocent person's mind the disposition to commit a criminal act, and then induce commission of the crime so that the Government may prosecute." They came up with the idea, coerced him to do it, gave him the guns and when he didn't do it right told him to go back and do it again. Seems pretty clear to me

Coercion is the use of force. By your own admission the government enticed him with membership and privilege in the white supremacist group you mentioned.

Do you not see the problem here? If they can just entice people into crimes they will make it into a entire part of government.

Why bother with stopping actual crime when you can just do the easy and arrest people you bait? Hell why even bother with arresting people for their real crimes just have some undercover cop offer whoever you want arrested a absurd reward for a tiny crime and get a conviction like that. Use it to keep prisons full while at it and make bank on private prisons.

You should sell me drugs or guns.

No.

Problem solved.

Are you really that naive?

Hey man can you give me a aspirin?

sure here you go

you are under arrest for drug dealing

And if you think not you should look into the sort of stupid shit governments do. Like it being illegal to collect rainwater, or sell non-pasteurized milk. Your response reeks of "you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide".

I mean, your analogy would make sense if aspirin were illegal and I was a pharmacist who could reasonably be expected to know that. So, really, if everything were different. The fact is he wasn't some innocent babe in the woods, he sold illegal weapons to white supremacist terrorists. The way ATF handled the raid was wrong, no one deserved to die, but this comic book world you're trying to construct where the evil government just picked some random dude and murdered his whole family while all he ever did was love puppies, Jesus and freedom is an ignorant farce. Rainwater and raw milk have nothing to do with it.

Rainwater and raw milk do have to do with it. They are illegal in places and absolutely could be used to entrap people. And you wouldn't be able to claim "I didn't know it was illegal to sell raw milk in Virginia" because ignorance isn't innocence.

You are the one assuming that governments wouldn't just take the easy way out and entrap people. It is a extremely dangerous thing to do. Again your argument is simply a different angle of "you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide"

Dude they don't set up elaborate scams to entrap people they just lie or make catch all laws. Stopping nestle from bottling the whole fucking Colorado river and selling it back to us isn't a vast conspiracy.

Dude they don't set up elaborate scams to entrap people

The 2020 plot to kidnap Governor Whitker was made up of 50% fed encouraging and prodding some weirdos into going further

They once tried baiting for islamic terrorism on a mosque so hard the Iman called the local cops to arrest the fed agitator

The feds had a woman befriend and date a mentally ill muslim loner pizza delivery man, goad him into doing a allahu ackbar, and when that failed they arrested him anyway and had to let the dude go because he had done nothing but say no

https://news.yahoo.com/fbi-informants-had-bigger-role-213400243.html

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jessicagarrison/fbi-informants-in-michigan-kidnap-plot

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/29/politics/aby-rayyan-fbi-terror-sting-pizza-man/index.html

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20211108-us-supreme-court-to-hear-case-of-fbi-surveillance-of-a-mosque

Sounds like the guy who said "no" was fine and the guys who said "okay" weren't.

Did you miss the part where the FBI egged a guy on killing people on a terror attack? What if he had decided to do it and only tell his "girlfriend" he agreed as he was about to blow up a bomb? What if the plot to kidnap the governor had gone through and been used to demand even more survailance of people? What if those mosque goers had been radicalized and started a real terror org without the one fed?

Holy shit dude you keep fucking excusing it. This shit DOES NOT END WELL. Take a step back and realize you are excusing giving law enforcement a reason and blank check to ENCOURAGE CRIME. The literal opposite of their function.

Whether this is a good idea from an LE perspective was never the debate. The debate was whether these terrorists were innocent victims because the terrorism they willingly committed was someone else's idea first.

Also I think you'll find that LE's actions make a lot more sense when you stop assuming they exist to prevent crime and start realizing they exist to protect money from people.

There’s no coercion there. It’s basically a contract - “Do this illegal thing for us and we will give you something you want”. No threats, no harassment, no consequences if he decides he isn’t going to do it.

"Hey man can you bring me some fresh milk to make some cheese?"

"Sure thing."

"You are under arrest for trading in a illegal substance."

Actually happened btw. Entrapment is NOT a good idea. Making it legal is NOT a good idea.

I had forgotten that bit, I'll edit my comment to include that. You can't get more textbook entrapment than that

Timothy McVeigh originally planned to go on a campaign of political assassinations, with one of the assassinations supposed to be that same sniper at Ruby Bridge and Waco.

Random opinion - People with motives behind large operations like this are infinitely more interesting than those serial killer documentaries. I did a research project over this guy for a killer paper we did, and this guy took me down a rabbit hole to The Unabomber. Very interesting motives, refreshing from the usual “I want to hurt people”.

Google ruby ridge massacre

New tragedy just dropped

Damn anarchy chess is everywhere

Ruby Ridge

Ruby Ridge was the site of an eleven-day siege in 1992 in Boundary County, Idaho, near Naples. It began on August 21, when deputies of the United States Marshals Service (USMS) initiated action to apprehend and arrest Randy Weaver under a bench warrant after his failure to appear on firearms charges. Weaver refused to surrender, and members of his immediate family, and family friend Kevin Harris, resisted as well. The Hostage Rescue Team of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI HRT) became involved as the siege developed.

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https://slate.com/slate-presents-standoff.html

FBI agents when they see a dog:

!It was the Marshals, but same point!<

Die bitch!

I HATE THE ATF I HATE THE ATF I HATE THE ATF

Although we all hate the ATF and they had a great track record of botched operations and killing innocent people/animals, people tend to forget Rand Weaver himself was a piece of shit white supremacist (btw not defending the ATF murdering his innocent son and wife (inb4 before some Rand Paul voter gets triggered in the comments))

Oh he was a total shitbag, just like David Koresh (leader of the Branch Davidians/dudes who got torched at Waco for those who don’t know). We shouldn’t ever forget that or forgive it, lest we idolize those people. Nevertheless both were ofc absolutely wrongfully killed, and became in a sense true symbols (not of their own intent) of a wildly fucking out of control and highly immoral ATF and alphabet soup groups.

David Koresh was a child rapist, but that doesn't mean that everyone around him deserve to burn alive.

The Branch Davidians burned themselves

le ATF agent has arrived

I totally agree with you on that one.

He was a scumbag, however not the kind of scumbag that deserved mustard gassed

Having a shitty worldview is a drop of rain in the ocean compared to the violence visited upon his family.

Seems like the government has a habit of going after the right people for the wrong reasons

Yeah one person at the time put it perfectly. In reference to the murder of children at Waco, he points out that the point of convicting abusive parents is to protect the children, while in that situation the ATF viewed them either as leverage or acceptable losses. They only seem to pursue justice for cynical reasons.

Don’t forget the dude who fucking invented FLIR testified at the court hearings on the evidence of the thermal camera footage from the feds that they were absolutely at fault for the fire.

They were out of control and had no consideration for a millisecond of collateral, because they didn’t give a shit to begin with. It was about some confiscation and ATF bullshit, albiet on a sonofabitch who deserved a federal grade godslap for being who he was. They aggressively surrounded that compound on purpose; it’s no surprise (and wholly predictable) that a reclusive group, let alone an armed cult, would turtle up to that. It wasn’t the right way to do it with kids in the crossfire, they always had other options and they very much chose not to do so despite holding all the cards.

for fucks sake, they posed in the burned wreckage of the place .* I don’t even need to say it’s not a pretty pic, but fair warning nonetheless.

They knew going in there were kids there.

note that the man in this image has been in the past misidentified as David Chippman, current head of the ATF. While he is a SOB statist who has explicitly wholly defended multiple times the events that happened at Waco, he was not* there till weeks after it went down; this is just a FBI agent (unnamed) who was on site. I clarify cus it’s a false fact sometimes perpetuated by those who’d defend David, and I sure as shit don’t wanna come to his support in any manner.

Local cops told them the leader went for long walks on a schedule and offered to get him at that time. ATF refused and instead went with a siege.

When they supposed to save abused kids, and the kids are there last priority. WTF is wrong with them!?

In this case, it was in the wrong way. Koresh was an avid jogger. They could have snatched him off the street easily and without confrontation. The issue here is that the cops felt, as all cops always do, that the maximum possible amount of force applied entirely without discretion was the right answer. They're never satisfied just enforcing the law, they have to abuse people as much as possible.

Any more examples all I can think of is Waco

the right people

Was Randy supposedly some kind of terrorist? Simply wanting to go off the grid and be left alone does not make you part of the “right people” to go after.

Doesn't matter. They couldn't even follow basic common sense to try and talk first before going balls to the wall and shooting a dude's family. Not to mention how backwards moronic it is the Feds and police literally setting up entrapment to arrest people and then getting pissed when they won't take the bait and just killing them is.

He doesn’t deserve getting shot over it. Even if he believes stupid shit as long as he doesn’t act on it he doesn’t deserve to be killed or to lose his family. What he deserves is to be educated why white supremacy is bad. You are an asshole, who decides someone deserves to die for being stupid and uneducated, despite not doing anything wrong.

Could you post a source? I’d like to read up on that if true. I had always heard that while Randy Weaver tended to associate with the neo-nazi/white supremacist types, he himself didn’t really believe in it.

Edit: nevermind, just looked into it. He was literally a self proclaimed “White Separatist”.

Entrapment go brrrrrrrrrr

This looks familiar.

Did Ready Or Not make a fuckin map based on this-?

Brah do people seriously learn about stuff like Waco or Ruby Ridge from RON or R6

Not all of us are americans, we got no way or reason to hear US government fuckups from 40 years ago

I'm not American either, I live like 7k km away from it but I still feel like people need to know about it

I didn’t learn from there, I’m just saying they had a map about a cabin the woods that looked really similar.

Course, anyways they’re currently making a map inspired by Waco-

Ready or not made it a mixture of ruby ridge and Teds Cabin

Wacky and uncharacteristic FBI shenanigans

I'm just gonna step outside to talk to my dad. I sure hope nothing wacky but entirely characteristic happens.

Google Ruby Ridge Siege. Basically, Randy Weaver and his wife hated the government so they moved into this mountain home to live off the grid. One of the “locals” (the feds) Randy was friends with asked him to modify a shotgun for him, so he did. The modified shotgun made it illegal because the barrel was an inch or two too short. Randy gets a court date and doesn’t go because he feels it’s dumb.

The ATF (Alcohol, tobacco and firearms regulatory committee) takes this personally, loads up a crew of guys to sneak up on the house and take Randy by force because they feel that he is dangerous due to his distrust of the government and collection of guns/ammo. As they’re traipsing through the woods on his property, Randy’s son (12 I think, maybe younger) and a family friend (early 20’s) we’re out hunting. The ATF members get found by their dog, so they shoot it which leads to the son and friend returning fire. One of the ATF members ends up killed in this engagement and so does Randy’s son.

They end up holding up in the house on the property completely surrounded for 12 days. At one point Randy’s wife was shot and killed by a sniper while she was holding her baby. Some of the other comments go into more detail about other parts leading up to the siege. The situation was truly messed up.

1980s I think. Not sure, am not American.

Oh wait ruby ridge thing massacre

Damn, I've been waiting for this moment! The Ruby Ridge saga is one of the craziest and most fascinating events in modern American history. Time to sit back, grab some popcorn, and see where this takes us.

Le Ruby Ridge has arrived

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